2023 Summer transfer window - hopes, needs, expectations and rumours.

[PeterWithesShin]

Martinez, Mings, Pau, and 8 pacy wingers/attackers. Let's see the rest of the league deal with that!!

[LeonW]

*Tin foil hat on* Am I thinking a bit too deeply when I say PIF might be using those Saudi clubs not only to establish their domestic league but to weaken Newcastle's Premier League rivals?  If Newcastle can't spend any more money due to FFP, the next best option for them is to throw spanners into the works of their rivals' plans?

Well, more like have one of their Saudi clubs buy the target player because Newcastle can’t spend any money due to FFP, then loan the player to Newcastle.

I've been waiting for this to happen since the moment they started buying players who are not quite past their peak.  Neves, Kante, Jota - could all do a job for a year if loaned back to a Prem club.  A bit like Lampard's "loan" to Man City when he signed for New York.

Really don't buy it.

I think LeonW has this correct, and if I were a Newcastle fan I'd be more worried about all the money PIF are throwing at the Saudi league than pleased. My gut feeling is they've seen the constraints that are there in the established structures and have decided "fuck it, we'll have our own structure then". And right now, if they could throw a bundle of cash at a brilliant player to go somewhere, they'd park him at Al-Ittihad over Newcastle.

Look at it this way - if they wanted Neves or Kante in Newcastle's midfield, they'd probably just put them there rather than spending similar money on Tonali to play the same position, no?

I'm not saying that no Saudi-based player will ever end up at Newcastle, it's perfectly possible. I just don't think that "send a ready-made supply of players to Saudi Arabia in case Newcastle need them" is a conspiracy theory that makes any sense at all.

Yes. I think they’ll always prioritize their league over a club elsewhere. I suspect as much as anything it’s about a league becoming an acceptable face and location for a future World Cup. I honestly don’t think it’s dissimilar to what China tried a few years when they were signing players like Oscar and Carrasco in their prime. It fizzled out and I suspect the same thing will happen with Saudi Arabia.

[Malandro]

Martinez, Mings, Pau, and 8 pacy wingers/attackers. Let's see the rest of the league deal with that!!

Felix on top, C’mon!

[Ads]

Martinez, Mings, Pau, and 8 pacy wingers/attackers. Let's see the rest of the league deal with that!!

Felix on top, C’mon!

We'd be so lucky.

[tomd2103]

*Tin foil hat on* Am I thinking a bit too deeply when I say PIF might be using those Saudi clubs not only to establish their domestic league but to weaken Newcastle's Premier League rivals?  If Newcastle can't spend any more money due to FFP, the next best option for them is to throw spanners into the works of their rivals' plans?

Well, more like have one of their Saudi clubs buy the target player because Newcastle can’t spend any money due to FFP, then loan the player to Newcastle.

I've been waiting for this to happen since the moment they started buying players who are not quite past their peak.  Neves, Kante, Jota - could all do a job for a year if loaned back to a Prem club.  A bit like Lampard's "loan" to Man City when he signed for New York.

Really don't buy it.

I think LeonW has this correct, and if I were a Newcastle fan I'd be more worried about all the money PIF are throwing at the Saudi league than pleased. My gut feeling is they've seen the constraints that are there in the established structures and have decided "fuck it, we'll have our own structure then". And right now, if they could throw a bundle of cash at a brilliant player to go somewhere, they'd park him at Al-Ittihad over Newcastle.

Look at it this way - if they wanted Neves or Kante in Newcastle's midfield, they'd probably just put them there rather than spending similar money on Tonali to play the same position, no?

I'm not saying that no Saudi-based player will ever end up at Newcastle, it's perfectly possible. I just don't think that "send a ready-made supply of players to Saudi Arabia in case Newcastle need them" is a conspiracy theory that makes any sense at all.

Yes. I think they’ll always prioritize their league over a club elsewhere. I suspect as much as anything it’s about a league becoming an acceptable face and location for a future World Cup. I honestly don’t think it’s dissimilar to what China tried a few years when they were signing players like Oscar and Carrasco in their prime. It fizzled out and I suspect the same thing will happen with Saudi Arabia.

Caught a discussion about it on Talksport earlier, where a football journalist was saying the same.  He was saying that there might be an initial couple of years of frenzied signings, but it will take a lot more than that to establish anything like a decent competition over there and interest will fizzle out.

[LeonW]

*Tin foil hat on* Am I thinking a bit too deeply when I say PIF might be using those Saudi clubs not only to establish their domestic league but to weaken Newcastle's Premier League rivals?  If Newcastle can't spend any more money due to FFP, the next best option for them is to throw spanners into the works of their rivals' plans?

Well, more like have one of their Saudi clubs buy the target player because Newcastle can’t spend any money due to FFP, then loan the player to Newcastle.

I've been waiting for this to happen since the moment they started buying players who are not quite past their peak.  Neves, Kante, Jota - could all do a job for a year if loaned back to a Prem club.  A bit like Lampard's "loan" to Man City when he signed for New York.

Really don't buy it.

I think LeonW has this correct, and if I were a Newcastle fan I'd be more worried about all the money PIF are throwing at the Saudi league than pleased. My gut feeling is they've seen the constraints that are there in the established structures and have decided "fuck it, we'll have our own structure then". And right now, if they could throw a bundle of cash at a brilliant player to go somewhere, they'd park him at Al-Ittihad over Newcastle.

Look at it this way - if they wanted Neves or Kante in Newcastle's midfield, they'd probably just put them there rather than spending similar money on Tonali to play the same position, no?

I'm not saying that no Saudi-based player will ever end up at Newcastle, it's perfectly possible. I just don't think that "send a ready-made supply of players to Saudi Arabia in case Newcastle need them" is a conspiracy theory that makes any sense at all.

Yes. I think they’ll always prioritize their league over a club elsewhere. I suspect as much as anything it’s about a league becoming an acceptable face and location for a future World Cup. I honestly don’t think it’s dissimilar to what China tried a few years when they were signing players like Oscar and Carrasco in their prime. It fizzled out and I suspect the same thing will happen with Saudi Arabia.

Caught a discussion about it on Talksport earlier, where a football journalist was saying the same.  He was saying that there might be an initial couple of years of frenzied signings, but it will take a lot more than that to establish anything like a decent competition over there and interest will fizzle out.

At some point, there surely has to be  a return on the money invested. In some form or other.

In the mean time, the machine of football will exploit the injection of cash whilst they can, just as it has before.

[Sexual Ealing]

The trouble is that China is a normal* country. They had to screw the lid because the economics became mental and they ultimately had to account for all the spending. Saudi Arabia is a rogue state that knows its wealth is fleeting and massive, and they have an appetite for gaudy, vulgar, excessive consumption. They won't get bored for a long time.

*It's obviously not 'normal' by western democratic standards, but they have to pay the bills in a way the Saudis just don't.

[Dante Lavelli]

Within five years they will have their own super league backed by Middle East money
They already own a handful of clubs and that will increase and they will buy their way into a league that they own

We have seen a whole host of players going to Saudi and Middle East because of the incredible amounts of money they can earn, principles mean nothing
It will be no different for actual clubs

I think the Premier League as we know it has only got a few years left

That’s my hunch too. It’ll be interesting to see what sort of tv deal the Saudi league gets as that could give them the validation to expand like you’ve indicated.

[LeonW]

The trouble is that China is a normal* country. They had to screw the lid because the economics became mental and they ultimately had to account for all the spending. Saudi Arabia is a rogue state that knows its wealth is fleeting and massive, and they have an appetite for gaudy, vulgar, excessive consumption. They won't get bored for a long time.

*It's obviously not 'normal' by western democratic standards, but they have to pay the bills in a way the Saudis just don't.

It’s the ‘exciting phase’ of buying new toys right now and grabbing attention. But that’s the easy bit. Will they keep pumping in money indefinitely for something that may actually be of little interest to the wider world over the long term? That must be the aim. I don’t think this is about developing football locally. I think the thrill will die sooner than expected. This is different to say, the golf. Once the new season rolls round and supporters start watching their clubs, it’ll be back to business as usual.

[LeonW]

The appointment of Steven Gerrard as a manager, is the Saudi league in a microcosm; all about the name only, as he’s not going to make his players or the standard of his team any better. But he’s a name.

[RamboandBruno]

St maximin is from the same production line as nzogbia, bolasie and adama traore and would have a similar impact for us, massively overated player.

Completely agree with this

[Rigadon]

St Maximin is exactly the kind of player who will end up in Saudi Arabia for a massive fee. I’ve never understood the hype. 

[Mister E]

Within five years they will have their own super league backed by Middle East money
They already own a handful of clubs and that will increase and they will buy their way into a league that they own
We have seen a whole host of players going to Saudi and Middle East because of the incredible amounts of money they can earn, principles mean nothing
It will be no different for actual clubs
I think the Premier League as we know it has only got a few years left

Certainly, the growth of the Saudi league will certainly create more competition amongst the TV companies and therefore the Premier League may see a reduction in revenue. But I don't see it as either / or: I see both leagues potentially pushing for further world growth in football viewing.

[algy]

The trouble is that China is a normal* country. They had to screw the lid because the economics became mental and they ultimately had to account for all the spending. Saudi Arabia is a rogue state that knows its wealth is fleeting and massive, and they have an appetite for gaudy, vulgar, excessive consumption. They won't get bored for a long time.

*It's obviously not 'normal' by western democratic standards, but they have to pay the bills in a way the Saudis just don't.

It’s the ‘exciting phase’ of buying new toys right now and grabbing attention. But that’s the easy bit. Will they keep pumping in money indefinitely for something that may actually be of little interest to the wider world over the long term? That must be the aim. I don’t think this is about developing football locally. I think the thrill will die sooner than expected. This is different to say, the golf. Once the new season rolls round and supporters start watching their clubs, it’ll be back to business as usual.

Kind of agree with you both.

I think Saudi Arabia will be more patient with pumping money in, and will keep it coming for longer. However, ultimately they'll be hampered by geography. They ain't in Europe and aren't likely to be , and without the Champions League it'll struggle to ever be seen as top level football - or even football on a par with the domestic leagues in Brazil or Argentina.

If their aim is to compete with MLS or the Dutch league then fair enough, they'll be able to get to that sort of level. Think going further than that will involve more than just long term investment in Saudi Arabia - it'll need them to compete in a continental competition on a par with the Champions League or Copa Libertadores. It'll need strength outside a 'big 4' teams, sustained funding of the grassroots sport,  ..

I dunno, I just can't see the Saudi league properly threatening the Portuguese league, let alone the Premier League, over the next couple of decades. And an awful lot can change in that time.

[Risso]

I've never been to Saudi Arabia, and have absolutely no desire to. But isn't it a bit dodgy for Westerners in a lot of parts over there?