Boubacar Kamara

[Russ aka Big Nose]

Yep, this is the biggest problem right now for me. Them both dropping in means Coutinho has to come really deep and we end up with something like a 532 but with all of our central midfielders in that 5, which is fucking stupid.

Easily fixed. Play Ramsay, Luiz and Coutinho as centre backs. Most of the first half at west ham was konsa and chambers passing it to each other. At least this way we will have better passers on the ball!

You know it might just work 

[pauliewalnuts]

Yep, this is the biggest problem right now for me. Them both dropping in means Coutinho has to come really deep and we end up with something like a 532 but with all of our central midfielders in that 5, which is fucking stupid.

Easily fixed. Play Ramsay, Luiz and Coutinho as centre backs. Most of the first half at west ham was konsa and chambers passing it to each other. At least this way we will have better passers on the ball!

You know it might just work 

I swear, that endless short passes around the back four, sometimes involving the midfielders, which is basically Man City style 'give it back' build up is genuinely the only single thing I see us do which makes me believe we must do some training.

Of course, Man City do it whilst looking for the ball to someone like KDB to then make something happen. We do it just to lose possession or hoof it up pitch, usually into touch.

[Russ aka Big Nose]

Yep, this is the biggest problem right now for me. Them both dropping in means Coutinho has to come really deep and we end up with something like a 532 but with all of our central midfielders in that 5, which is fucking stupid.

Easily fixed. Play Ramsay, Luiz and Coutinho as centre backs. Most of the first half at west ham was konsa and chambers passing it to each other. At least this way we will have better passers on the ball!

You know it might just work 

I swear, that endless short passes around the back four, sometimes involving the midfielders, which is basically Man City style 'give it back' build up is genuinely the only single thing I see us do which makes me believe we must do some training.

Of course, Man City do it whilst looking for the ball to someone like KDB to then make something happen. We do it just to lose possession or hoof it up pitch, usually into touch.

Agreed, though when Man City do it they do it quicker, include passes further forward so they can isolate fullbacks 1v1 or they just keep patienty recycling the ball until an opponent is slow to move leaving a gap they can exploit with pace and/or precise passing.

As Neil Taylor said the other day - you work out what your preference is, work out how the opposition set up and go from there recognising there are (broadly) three option - play through them, play round them with width, or go over them (having drawn them out).

With the diamond in midfield and two strikers, it seems most likely we are set up to play through teams, but pace and precise passing is absent, and it is clear that they are not being coached to make intelligent runs to find space or pull defenders out of position for others.

Our attacking players are hopelessly disjointed. When we have decent possession in the final third they are static or they run into the same space or one runs when the passer is looking to play to feet or they stand still when the passer expects movement.

If someone does drive with the ball or creates an overload we fail to capitalise often enough because the other players are uncertain what kind of delivery or link-up to expect.

Very telling to me that Gerrard said after West Ham "we needed that bit of quality" aka 'Bruceball'.

I'm all for players being given licence but first coach them to create those opportunities and as a bonus you will find that the rest of the team will have a clue about what they should do!

UTV

[paul_e]

I agree with the idea of go through, go round or go over. That's what is so wrong with us. On paper we look like we're planning to go through, the full backs are pushed up as if we're trying to go round but we move the ball so slowly that we end up with little choice to try to go over.

Gerrard talks a lot about identity but has no idea how to give us one and every week we seem to look more like the players are making it up on the day.

[Ads]

Yep, this is the biggest problem right now for me. Them both dropping in means Coutinho has to come really deep and we end up with something like a 532 but with all of our central midfielders in that 5, which is fucking stupid.

Easily fixed. Play Ramsay, Luiz and Coutinho as centre backs. Most of the first half at west ham was konsa and chambers passing it to each other. At least this way we will have better passers on the ball!

You know it might just work 

I swear, that endless short passes around the back four, sometimes involving the midfielders, which is basically Man City style 'give it back' build up is genuinely the only single thing I see us do which makes me believe we must do some training.

Of course, Man City do it whilst looking for the ball to someone like KDB to then make something happen. We do it just to lose possession or hoof it up pitch, usually into touch.

Man City are waiting for you to step out of midfield in a disjointed manner so they can press the space. It was infuriating when in the first half against West Ham watch us move it about, create 30 yards of space behind the West Ham midfield before you hit their back 3 and...just not exploit it. Not once, with a single run. We have Coutinho and Buendia in this squad and we're incapable of finding that space which we create? Rubbish. There's a bag of quality here, we should be doing better.

[Russ aka Big Nose]

I agree with the idea of go through, go round or go over. That's what is so wrong with us. On paper we look like we're planning to go through, the full backs are pushed up as if we're trying to go round but we move the ball so slowly that we end up with little choice to try to go over.

Gerrard talks a lot about identity but has no idea how to give us one and every week we seem to look more like the players are making it up on the day.

This.

[rooboy316]

Our attacking players are hopelessly disjointed. When we have decent possession in the final third they are static or they run into the same space or one runs when the passer is looking to play to feet or they stand still when the passer expects movement.

If someone does drive with the ball or creates an overload we fail to capitalise often enough because the other players are uncertain what kind of delivery or link-up to expect.

Exactly this. Any sniff of momentum going forward, that happens, we get closed down and the ball goes back to the CBs to tap around again. A couple of times against westham, we got it to Coutinho in space. He looked up, tried to be busy, saw nothing and passed sideways/backwards, and eventually it was back with Konsa/Chambers.

[LeeB]

I agree with the idea of go through, go round or go over. That's what is so wrong with us. On paper we look like we're planning to go through, the full backs are pushed up as if we're trying to go round but we move the ball so slowly that we end up with little choice to try to go over.

Gerrard talks a lot about identity but has no idea how to give us one and every week we seem to look more like the players are making it up on the day.

This.

You're both spot on with your observations, and the longer it goes on the further away we seem to get from achieving what we set out to do.

[Mister E]

This ...

I agree with the idea of go through, go round or go over. That's what is so wrong with us. On paper we look like we're planning to go through, the full backs are pushed up as if we're trying to go round but we move the ball so slowly that we end up with little choice to try to go over.
Gerrard talks a lot about identity but has no idea how to give us one and every week we seem to look more like the players are making it up on the day.

... and ...

Our attacking players are hopelessly disjointed. When we have decent possession in the final third they are static or they run into the same space or one runs when the passer is looking to play to feet or they stand still when the passer expects movement.
If someone does drive with the ball or creates an overload we fail to capitalise often enough because the other players are uncertain what kind of delivery or link-up to expect.

Exactly this. Any sniff of momentum going forward, that happens, we get closed down and the ball goes back to the CBs to tap around again. A couple of times against westham, we got it to Coutinho in space. He looked up, tried to be busy, saw nothing and passed sideways/backwards, and eventually it was back with Konsa/Chambers.

Illustrates how plain it is for all to see, even Micah Haha. The fact that SG chooses not to see it really points to his stubbornness, and he'll end up moving the deckchairs round the deck while the boat sinks.

[Russ aka Big Nose]

If the coaching team are not coaching patterns of play (our approach), I genuinely don't know how they fill their time

There are S&C people to cover the gym work, physios to manage recovery, and analysts providing individual feedback on performance.

Sometimes, Gerrard and his current set-up might be a case in point, the exponential growth in data, the emergence of new formations, complex new practices, etc. can prompt confusion rather than bring clarity.

For me, clarity comes from being consistent about the information given, communicating in ways that are precise and easily understood, and repetition so that players can see and experience what is expected of them in different situations, i.e. they are not 'running plays' like in the NFL, but faced with any situation they have a 'picture' of what they want to do - and critically - so does the teammates they are likely to combine with.

As posted earlier there are three approaches to consider in order to break teams down/create chances recognising that they will respond in different ways and they might (!) change their approach during a game. It really is not rocket science.

What is most frustrating at the moment is not only that we do not have a defined approach, it is that this group does not look like a team - in terms of performance or demeanour. Very different to when we have made progress in recent years.

If you address having a defined approach, you also improve cohesion, enjoyment, and a willingness to take risks because improving decision-making is the primary objective of the input from the coaching staff.

Ultimately it means you build resilience so that the team can cope better with injuries and/or the loss of form for one or two players.

[Drummond]

This ...

I agree with the idea of go through, go round or go over. That's what is so wrong with us. On paper we look like we're planning to go through, the full backs are pushed up as if we're trying to go round but we move the ball so slowly that we end up with little choice to try to go over.
Gerrard talks a lot about identity but has no idea how to give us one and every week we seem to look more like the players are making it up on the day.

... and ...

Our attacking players are hopelessly disjointed. When we have decent possession in the final third they are static or they run into the same space or one runs when the passer is looking to play to feet or they stand still when the passer expects movement.
If someone does drive with the ball or creates an overload we fail to capitalise often enough because the other players are uncertain what kind of delivery or link-up to expect.

Exactly this. Any sniff of momentum going forward, that happens, we get closed down and the ball goes back to the CBs to tap around again. A couple of times against westham, we got it to Coutinho in space. He looked up, tried to be busy, saw nothing and passed sideways/backwards, and eventually it was back with Konsa/Chambers.

Illustrates how plain it is for all to see, even Micah Haha. The fact that SG chooses not to see it really points to his stubbornness, and he'll end up moving the deckchairs round the deck while the boat sinks.

Whilst the opposition play musical chairs with us, removing options one by one...

[Footy-Vill]

At Arsenal did anyone else notice how upset he was when he was subbed?
He appeared irritated. No outburst, but irritated.

[Drummond]

At Arsenal did anyone else notice how upset he was when he was subbed?
He appeared irritated. No outburst, but irritated.

Put this sort of thing on the post-match thread.

[dicedlam]

Poor fucker. He must surely regret signing for this excuse for a team. He must be pissed at Gerrard right now for convincing him to come here, and rightly so.

[Footy-Vill]

At Arsenal did anyone else notice how upset he was when he was subbed?
He appeared irritated. No outburst, but irritated.

Put this sort of thing on the post-match thread.

Must I ?
I find it can get lost and I can't see the debate and discussion
I would find it incredibly frustrating and tricky so I posted it here.