Gerrard In or Out?

[chrisw1]

Yeah, Leicester are stronger fair point.  I guess Ndidi, Barnes, Maddison, Tielemans and maybe Dewsbury Hall as a prospect.  Vardy is obviously great but age is kicking in now.  They've got some other decent players, but not necessarily ones I'd swap for our players in those positions.

[paul_e]

The over riding positive impact that Grealish had on the team was that we held onto the ball better with him in the team, and specifically at the right end of the pitch. He held onto it, drew players in, occupied opponents, won free kicks and set pieces and he rarely gave a stray pass so didn't lose possession. Compare to when he wasn't in the team or to this season and you see that the ball bounces back to the opposition far more and then of course with a weak center it becomes even easier to plough through us and put more pressure on the defence. In some ways i think Coutinho is better than Grealish. He's quicker and with the right players around him i'd expect him to have more assists and goals but he doesn't retain possession as well as Grealish did. That's why it's even more important now to get that midfield solid so that we can stop the opposition and get back to keeping the ball more which should then give Coutinho the platform to do his thing. Add a top striker as well and hopefully we'll see less of the wasted chances like we saw against Tottenham for example.

I agree with this, the problem is that none of our attackers hold the ball up well so to create things we have to commit men forward but that leaves us short on the counter-attack (which is where a huge amount of the goals we concede come from). We can solve that issue with 2 signings, a proper DM to cover when we do commit forward and a striker who holds on to the ball better and brings people into play. One of the reasons I'm up for keeping Davis next season is that despite his scoring record for us being awful he would give us that focal point that we've missed. Ideally we'll be looking to sign someone who can do that but also get 10-15 goals a season for us.

After we fix those 2 issues what we're left needing to add is incremental improvements to the quality, and more importantly attitude, of the squad.

[paul_e]

Yeah, Leicester are stronger fair point.  I guess Ndidi, Barnes, Maddison, Tielemans and maybe Dewsbury Hall as a prospect.  Vardy is obviously great but age is kicking in now.  They've got some other decent players, but not necessarily ones I'd swap for our players in those positions.

Replace Dewsbury-Hall (who isn't anything like as good a prospect as Ramsey) with Fofana and I'd go with that, I like Thomas as well but only so Young isn't our cover at left back.

[brian green]

The one I like is Wright of Rangers.  Have him in a heartbeat.

[Baldy]

The biggest problem is that we want quality players who want to play for Aston Villa and not just any Club in the Premier League. Players who will run through a brick wall for Aston Villa and not players who use us as a stepping stone, comfort zone or just a substantial pay packet.

Stevie G knows what qualities a player needs to be a winner and to build a proper team spirit. I hate fecking Liverpool but their team spirit is amazing. They would die for each other.

Ability is easy to see (You Tube). But Stevie G is the man to see a players ambition, hunger, desire, heart, loyalty, commitment etc which is equally important.

For too long, Villa Park has been the 'promise land' for many a waster who couldn't give a shit about the Villa but wanted the riches the Premier League provides.

Stevie G is the man to weed 'em out and start building a proper team spirit at Villa Park.

[Mister E]

The over riding positive impact that Grealish had on the team was that we held onto the ball better with him in the team, and specifically at the right end of the pitch. He held onto it, drew players in, occupied opponents, won free kicks and set pieces and he rarely gave a stray pass so didn't lose possession. Compare to when he wasn't in the team or to this season and you see that the ball bounces back to the opposition far more and then of course with a weak center it becomes even easier to plough through us and put more pressure on the defence. In some ways i think Coutinho is better than Grealish. He's quicker and with the right players around him i'd expect him to have more assists and goals but he doesn't retain possession as well as Grealish did. That's why it's even more important now to get that midfield solid so that we can stop the opposition and get back to keeping the ball more which should then give Coutinho the platform to do his thing. Add a top striker as well and hopefully we'll see less of the wasted chances like we saw against Tottenham for example.

I'd agree with most of this but add that - with Phil in the team - the striker has to be far better at holding up the ball and playing in the players around him: we lose lots of possession because Watkins / Ings are bullied by the opponent CB and unable to get the damn ball under control.

[Dave P]

Am I the only one who is genuinely excited for next season?  We don't have to change half the team at all and a proper defensive midfielder would protect Mings / Konsa as well as freeing the likes of McGinn, Buendia, Ramsey and (hopefully) Coutinho.

I believe Gerrard is a good head coach who can attract good talent and want's to make a success here.  He is also backed up by a very good coaching set up.

Yes, results are disappointing at the moment and we do need to reassess around Christmas to see if it is working, but I believe it will.

[Mister E]

Re an earlier post about Gerrard's preferred narrowness / compactness in MF (vs 2 wide players), the ideal surely has to be a version of what Klopp is currently doing: playing players up front with both winger-capabilities and the capacity to get compact when not in possession (perm 2 or 3 from Salah, Mane, Jota and Diaz). This requires pace, dribbling skills, stamina, quick thinking and the strength to win tackles / make interceptions. Moyes has sort of got this with Bowen, Fornals, Benrahma and - to a lesser extent - Lanzini.
Ironically, AEG and Trez are probably closest to this model from our current player-list; albeit not good enough.
Bailey and Traore probably aren't close enough to this approach.
Ramsey could be a version of this, as could Archer and Buendia. McGinn and Sanson are probably not quick enough.

All of which relies on a decent midfield, pairing defensive and creative duties (think Soucek and Rice).

Sorry to bring RedScouse back into the conversation relating to Gerrard - not pleasant.

[Clark W Griswold]

Yes, it’s true that neither Watkins or Ings have been holding the ball up well. Perhaps, as said, the top quality striker signing should have this in his make up, as well as the goals. John Carew 2 would be good!
From what I’d seen of Ings and particularly Watkins before this season though I would have expected them to be better at it. Watkins did well as a focal point last season. One way or the other this has to be an area we address anyway.

[Beard82]

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-aston-villa-steven-gerrard-wrong-trajectory-together

Looks like non villa people have started to notice

[Hookeysmith]

I worry about another year where our fantastic owners spend a lorryful of cash for another deflating season.

I agree that SG has made some mistakes but calls for his head are ridiculously premature  - just hope the recruitment drive and player turnover is not too much (coming in at least) as always they will need time to bed in.

I also hope we do our business early which has been our way for a while

[Abbeyfealeavfc]

I think there is evidence to suggest that Smith overachieved with the squad last year because Grealish was THAT good and THAT much of a positive impact on the other players.  When Grealish wasn't fit and then after he left our form was nowhere near as good under Dean.  We didn't sell him for £100m because he was average, or even a bit better than that - he was sensational for us.  The club bought in the 3 players to fill a gap but they haven't, it's as simple as that, they have failed to justify their places (that's being harsh on Buendia who has, in flashes, done the business). 

I think Gerrard saw the Jack-shaped hole straight away and tried to replicate that level of creativity by bringing Coutihno in - maybe he prioritised that over spending mega bucks in Jan on the fabled center midfield destroyer/s.   It might end up that we finish about the same as last year, which will justify this approach to a degree.   

For me, unless we seriously get dragged into the relegation fight by failing to beat Norwich or Chrystal Palace and losing to Burnley twice, Gerrard gets the summer to build a team in his image and the first 10 games of the new season to prove is is the person to take us back into Europe (the CL). 

Kind of agree.  But if we're letting Gerrard spend £100m + then we need to give him more than 10 games to get it right.

Replace Gerrard's name with Smith and the same could be said (especially post grealish) notwithstanding how the season has turned out so far.

[Mister E]

https://www.football365.com/news/opinion-aston-villa-steven-gerrard-wrong-trajectory-together

Looks like non villa people have started to notice

He's been on here, reading the analyses of people rather closer to the action and more emotionally invested! perhaps.

[mrfuse]

Am I the only one who is genuinely excited for next season?  We don't have to change half the team at all and a proper defensive midfielder would protect Mings / Konsa as well as freeing the likes of McGinn, Buendia, Ramsey and (hopefully) Coutinho.

I believe Gerrard is a good head coach who can attract good talent and want's to make a success here.  He is also backed up by a very good coaching set up.

Yes, results are disappointing at the moment and we do need to reassess around Christmas to see if it is working, but I believe it will.

Yes a defensive midfielder will be a big help but if Gerrard wants to play a certain way bigger changes need to be made.

Defensively something needs to change to be able to play out from the back as neither Konsa or Mings are comfortable with the ball at their feet.
I'm a big fan of Watkins but I don't think he fits the style Gerrard wants to play. Ings I don't rate at all and again Gerrard doesn't seem to want to fit him in his system. Then we've got an abundance of wingers that don't fit the system and are basically rubbish.

 

[Duncan Shaw]

Am I the only one who is genuinely excited for next season?  We don't have to change half the team at all and a proper defensive midfielder would protect Mings / Konsa as well as freeing the likes of McGinn, Buendia, Ramsey and (hopefully) Coutinho.

I believe Gerrard is a good head coach who can attract good talent and want's to make a success here.  He is also backed up by a very good coaching set up.

Yes, results are disappointing at the moment and we do need to reassess around Christmas to see if it is working, but I believe it will.

I am, or would be if your first sentence proves correct.  My nagging fear is that SG decides he needs to rip it all up and get rid of most of them and get his own players in, then we will be in another rebuild phase.