Aston Villa 1 v Moss Side 2 Post Match Thread.

[pauliewalnuts]

I can remember applauding an opposition goal every now and then (obviously, quietly) and a few other people doing the same.

One was a 12 year old Paul Ince scoring a belter against us for West Ham. Another I seem to recall some Luton full back scoring a blinder.

Probably the one goal against us at our place that I remember thinking "Jesus, what a goal" and would have politely applauded if it weren't for the opposition was that one Paul Scholes scored that crashed in off the cross bar (everyone knows, the sound of woodwork taking a smashing en route to the ball hitting the back of the net instantly makes a goal at least 100% better).

[dave.woodhall]

The biggest clubs in this country organically speaking - that's based on historical, success, natural resources (catchment area) etc - are (in order): Man Utd, Liverpool; Arsenal; Villa & Everton; assorted misfits and ne'er-do-wells. I can accept those three (with poison spitting out from gritted teeth, but accepted nonetheless), but lottery-winning petroclubs like Chelsea and City? Sad Sunderland and nebulous Newcastle? Cheerful cockneys like Spurs and the Whammers? They're all in one great primordial swamp together as far as I'm concerned.

I'd put Newcastle and Sunderland above the rest based on their support, history and potential but the big problem is what we saw yesterday - in the eyes of the world, and infuriatingly to some of our own supporters, we're part of the lumpen mass.

[Monty]

The biggest clubs in this country organically speaking - that's based on historical, success, natural resources (catchment area) etc - are (in order): Man Utd, Liverpool; Arsenal; Villa & Everton; assorted misfits and ne'er-do-wells. I can accept those three (with poison spitting out from gritted teeth, but accepted nonetheless), but lottery-winning petroclubs like Chelsea and City? Sad Sunderland and nebulous Newcastle? Cheerful cockneys like Spurs and the Whammers? They're all in one great primordial swamp together as far as I'm concerned.

I'd put Newcastle and Sunderland above the rest based on their support, history and potential but the big problem is what we saw yesterday - in the eyes of the world, and infuriatingly to some of our own supporters, we're part of the lumpen mass.

I can accept that argument, especially re. Sunderland (though Toon probably have more potential).

But yeah, on the latter point, it's amazing. The biggest club (by miles) in the second city in the country, the biggest club in a region with more people in it than Scotland, and it means nothing. We're booing that, as much as anything. That shitey shitey reality.

[pauliewalnuts]

I had some Man City fan in Serbia or somewhere tell me on twitter I shouldn't be angry about Grealish going to 'a big club' when he had the chance.

I appreciate money makes them big, but getting told by someone in a student flat somewhere in fucking Serbia who almost certainly has never been to a match AND had probably never heard of Man City ten years ago how I should be supporting the club my family have supported since Victorian times really, really fucking annoys me.

More proof that it is no longer 'our' game. Also, shows how the definition of 'our' has changed - it used to mean match attending fans, "Television has ruined our game", then it became those who could afford it, then it added anyone who realised associating yourself with a football club was fashionable (politicians, for example), then it added full Liverpool kit wankers sat in front of 60 inch televisions in Beijing.

I sound a bit Farage here, but it fucking annoys me enough being told how to support my club by anyone else, but that annoyance goes through the roof with these people.

[London Villan]

The rotational fouling is such a cynical but effective tactic for them.

With 70% possession in most games, they only need to do it like 6 times a game, so will very rarely even pick up a yellow as they’re only given for persistent fouling of that sort.

Almost every time we had the ball in space there was a pull, trip etc, just breaking down anything that starts to build.

Add to that the kicking the ball away, just far enough not to get booked, but enough to take a couple more seconds out of the attack and slow the move down and get everyone back in the shape. Exactly what we should have done before their second.

[pauliewalnuts]

The rotational fouling is such a cynical but effective tactic for them.

With 70% possession in most games, they only need to do it like 6 times a game, so will very rarely even pick up a yellow as they’re only given for persistent fouling of that sort.

Almost every time we had the ball in space there was a pull, trip etc, just breaking down anything that starts to build.

Add to that the kicking the ball away, just far enough not to get booked, but enough to take a couple more seconds out of the attack and slow the move down and get everyone back in the shape. Exactly what we should have done before their second.

To be honest, I think since Gerrard joined I've seen a fair amount of us doing the same - or similar, applying a bit of cynicism to manage the game better.

Martinez is particularly good at it - pretty sure in the Palace game we were all saying how savvy he was for going down and needing attention in a period where they were building a head of steam.

[Monty]

I had some Man City fan in Serbia or somewhere tell me on twitter I shouldn't be angry about Grealish going to 'a big club' when he had the chance.

I appreciate money makes them big, but getting told by someone in a student flat somewhere in fucking Serbia who almost certainly has never been to a match AND had probably never heard of Man City ten years ago how I should be supporting the club my family have supported since Victorian times really, really fucking annoys me.

More proof that it is no longer 'our' game. Also, shows how the definition of 'our' has changed - it used to mean match attending fans, "Television has ruined our game", then it added anyone who realised associating yourself with a football club was fashionable (politicians, for example), then it added full Liverpool kit wankers sat in front of 60 inch televisions in Beijing.

I sound a bit Farage here, but it fucking annoys me enough being told how to support my club by anyone else, but that annoyance goes through the roof with these people.

It's a bit like how colonising also colonises the colonisers. It's like what William Dalrymple says in his book Empire of Anarchy, that the East India Company bought two countries not one through its bribery of the Commons. You can see equivalents today with corporate lobbying in the States, and with the 'global game' status of the Premier League, its increasing domination and ruination of every other football league on earth. Its monumental success is not our success as fans of English football. We don't enter into it.

[sickbeggar]

I had some Man City fan in Serbia or somewhere tell me on twitter I shouldn't be angry about Grealish going to 'a big club' when he had the chance.

I appreciate money makes them big, but getting told by someone in a student flat somewhere in fucking Serbia who almost certainly has never been to a match AND had probably never heard of Man City ten years ago how I should be supporting the club my family have supported since Victorian times really, really fucking annoys me.

More proof that it is no longer 'our' game. Also, shows how the definition of 'our' has changed - it used to mean match attending fans, "Television has ruined our game", then it became those who could afford it, then it added anyone who realised associating yourself with a football club was fashionable (politicians, for example), then it added full Liverpool kit wankers sat in front of 60 inch televisions in Beijing.

I sound a bit Farage here, but it fucking annoys me enough being told how to support my club by anyone else, but that annoyance goes through the roof with these people.

yep its becoming common now this disconnect between legacy (spit!) fans and the rest. Said it before but when the ESL was going on you saw these arguments going on all the time on twitter between Uk-based fans of ManU/City/Liverpool/Chelsea who despised the idea, and those based abroad who didn't "get" the culture as they just wanted to see all the best players together in some Harlem Globetrotter league.

[baddowvillans]

Just watched the challenge on Konsa and can't see how thats not a penalty.  Ake males no contact whatsoever with the ball and yet wipes Konsa out.  Whether Konsa could have controlled the ball or not is - as we know from bitter experience - not a reason not to award a penalty.  Perhaps if our nemesis wasn't on VAR it might have been considered

[Bobby Boy]

The rotational fouling is such a cynical but effective tactic for them.

With 70% possession in most games, they only need to do it like 6 times a game, so will very rarely even pick up a yellow as they’re only given for persistent fouling of that sort.

Almost every time we had the ball in space there was a pull, trip etc, just breaking down anything that starts to build.

Add to that the kicking the ball away, just far enough not to get booked, but enough to take a couple more seconds out of the attack and slow the move down and get everyone back in the shape. Exactly what we should have done before their second.

All of this is true; 'tactical fouling', kicking the ball away, contesting every decision against you, getting into the ref's ear at half-time when you're leaving the pitch

These aspects to Man City's game are coached every bit as much as their style of play.

Guardiola is astute at doing whatever it takes to gain a competitive advantage however small.

I have a feeling that Gerrard will make us more streetwise, more mentally tough. Less nice.

Bring it on.

[ChicagoLion]

So we have to spend years kissing another player's arse in the hope he might want to play for us when his own club don't want him anymore?

yes, it’s about time accepted our place and any dissenting fans should stay away.

[Bad English]

Talking about applauding the opposition

I didn’t applaud last night but will do when Smith returns and I don’t give a flying fuck what anybody thinks on here because he will be there to take three points away from Villa

I will stand and applaud him and give zero fucks to anyone on here who tells me what I can and what I cannot do When it comes to the opposition

You do realise that people on here can't actually make you think or do something, don't you? ;-)

[pauliewalnuts]

Talking about applauding the opposition

I didn’t applaud last night but will do when Smith returns and I don’t give a flying fuck what anybody thinks on here because he will be there to take three points away from Villa

I will stand and applaud him and give zero fucks to anyone on here who tells me what I can and what I cannot do When it comes to the opposition

You do realise that people on here can't actually make you think or do something, don't you? ;-)

John inventing a scenario and then getting really wound up about it, there!

[Vegas]

I had some Man City fan in Serbia or somewhere tell me on twitter I shouldn't be angry about Grealish going to 'a big club' when he had the chance.

I appreciate money makes them big, but getting told by someone in a student flat somewhere in fucking Serbia who almost certainly has never been to a match AND had probably never heard of Man City ten years ago how I should be supporting the club my family have supported since Victorian times really, really fucking annoys me.

More proof that it is no longer 'our' game. Also, shows how the definition of 'our' has changed - it used to mean match attending fans, "Television has ruined our game", then it became those who could afford it, then it added anyone who realised associating yourself with a football club was fashionable (politicians, for example), then it added full Liverpool kit wankers sat in front of 60 inch televisions in Beijing.

I sound a bit Farage here, but it fucking annoys me enough being told how to support my club by anyone else, but that annoyance goes through the roof with these people.

I totally agree, and am slightly conflicted by it as politically I am diametrically opposed to Farage on every single thing he believes or stands for. 

But Twitter new-fans telling us what to think / how to behave / what we should and shouldn’t be bothered by, know our place boils my fucking blood.

[ChicagoLion]

Talking about applauding the opposition

I didn’t applaud last night but will do when Smith returns and I don’t give a flying fuck what anybody thinks on here because he will be there to take three points away from Villa

I will stand and applaud him and give zero fucks to anyone on here who tells me what I can and what I cannot do When it comes to the opposition

You do realise that people on here can't actually make you think or do something, don't you? ;-)

HandV voodoo doesn’t work?
You will be telling me Father Christmas isn’t real next.