Villa Park Redevelopment

[john e]

Mate of mine who has a Everton season ticket says he has to leave an hour earlier now just to get parked and get in on time
Not that he’s to bothered

[algy]

Max on Tour said it was a half hour walk from town and that he wasn't sure how Evertonians got there sooner without the faff of a taxi.

My mate takes the ferry over,

But yeah, he was saying the walk from the perimeter kills his dad.

[FatSam]

But the Purslow plans for the North Stand were pretty much the same size as this version of it, the major difference is that it doesn't mean closing one end of the ground for at least a couple of seasons.

Yes, pretty much the same. I’m assuming the difference is down to avoiding having to redirect the below ground utilities that were supposed to be complicating the build (and adding additional cost).

[olaftab]

Mate of mine who has a Everton season ticket says he has to leave an hour earlier now just to get parked and get in on time
Not that he’s to bothered

Found out on Saturday that usual parking places, the streets, have now become resident permit holder only parking. 

[chrisw1]

But the Purslow plans for the North Stand were pretty much the same size as this version of it, the major difference is that it doesn't mean closing one end of the ground for at least a couple of seasons.

Exactly.

I think this is part of the process of finding out what the potential support is on our current site. If there’s untapped demand after we get to 50k plus then there’s another plan to be made. I think if we were going to 60k in the next couple of years we’d have to reduce prices to fill it for many games, and financially speaking, what’s the point of that? Even at 50k, I reckon they’ll sell season tickets to everyone who wants one.

Did Everton sell out on Saturday?

The thing is, the only viable 'next plan' will be to redevelop the North.  If we have long-term ambitions to be a top 4 club we'll need a 60k stadium.  To me it makes sense to build as big as we can on the only land we have now.

[Drummond]

We don't need a 60k stadium. Look at the number of empty seats now for the Europa League as evidence. People will only come if we're successful. Adding 10k is the right amount.

[paul_e]

But the Purslow plans for the North Stand were pretty much the same size as this version of it, the major difference is that it doesn't mean closing one end of the ground for at least a couple of seasons.

Exactly.

I think this is part of the process of finding out what the potential support is on our current site. If there’s untapped demand after we get to 50k plus then there’s another plan to be made. I think if we were going to 60k in the next couple of years we’d have to reduce prices to fill it for many games, and financially speaking, what’s the point of that? Even at 50k, I reckon they’ll sell season tickets to everyone who wants one.

Did Everton sell out on Saturday?

The thing is, the only viable 'next plan' will be to redevelop the North.  If we have long-term ambitions to be a top 4 club we'll need a 60k stadium.  To me it makes sense to build as big as we can on the only land we have now.

Well that's not true, we don't know exactly what is in the plans the council put out recently but 'restoring Villa park into the grounds of Aston Hall' suggests some meaningful changes on the Holte and Trinity side of the ground. This is clearly something the club have been working with the council on to come up with plans that work for both the club and the city. Without knowledge of that no one knows what is going to become viable over the next 4-5years.

Aside from that the Purslow plan also required work not just on the north stand but also that end of both the trinity and DE stands, partly to join up the corners, I don't know how much of the difference betweent he 2 stands was entirely a result of that but there will clearly be an option to implement some of that still, which will make the size difference even smaller than the 1500 seats it is right now. With the time we've spent shifting things around already, and the next phase(s) of that to come we're actually going to have a bigger ground under this plan than anything that was actually designed under Purslow.

Either way though getting up to 60k means work on the DE, which comes back to working with the council and finding ways to use the development of the ground to help the council with their targets as well. If we can find something that works for both sides then the chances of us getting the support to do the work we really need are clearly much better.

[chrisw1]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'meaningful changes' on the Holte & Trinity.  But the way I see it, without a wholesale redevelopment of the Holte there is very little scope for significant expansion of those two stands.  Yes we could grab a bit back from the corner, but that would add hundreds not thousands of seats.  We could possibly wrap the stand, but if we were going to wrap then the North would make far more sense both in terms of ease of development and aesthetically.

I don't think that cost-benefit-wise there's any chance of anything happening with those two stands (other than implementing the currently planned optimisation) and certainly not in the next 4-5 years.

I agree with what you say re DE, but it's simply not going to happen.  CPO is an incredibly difficult and time-consuming process and I just don't see that happening in the next 20 years.   

I appreciate it's all opinions and we all have one.  But people on here spent the last 3 years telling me that we would definitely be relocating or rebuilding and here we are with a minimal refurb.  It is my guess that that is all that will get done in the foreseeable future and certainly in the next 10 years.

Our opportunity to compete is now, not in a decades time.

[London Villan]

Purslow's plan saw a massive remodelling of the northern third of the Trinity, significant reprofiling of the seats, new dressing rooms, media centre, medical rooms and more hospitality in the Trinity and then better physical link with the Witton Lane stand.

[chrisw1]

Yes, there were other significant benefits, including a more joined-up hospitality deck.

But the plan could have been further developed to increase the size too if we had wanted to.  Aren't we supposed to have the world's best stadium development minds on board?

[Ads]

Best to keep it open. We cannot afford the loss of income. Closing it last season and missing out on the extra millions would have made the summer even harder.

Looking forward to watching the construction- does it start December?

[Pat Mustard]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'meaningful changes' on the Holte & Trinity.  But the way I see it, without a wholesale redevelopment of the Holte there is very little scope for significant expansion of those two stands.  Yes we could grab a bit back from the corner, but that would add hundreds not thousands of seats.  We could possibly wrap the stand, but if we were going to wrap then the North would make far more sense both in terms of ease of development and aesthetically.

I don't think that cost-benefit-wise there's any chance of anything happening with those two stands (other than implementing the currently planned optimisation) and certainly not in the next 4-5 years.

I agree with what you say re DE, but it's simply not going to happen.  CPO is an incredibly difficult and time-consuming process and I just don't see that happening in the next 20 years.   

I appreciate it's all opinions and we all have one.  But people on here spent the last 3 years telling me that we would definitely be relocating or rebuilding and here we are with a minimal refurb.  It is my guess that that is all that will get done in the foreseeable future and certainly in the next 10 years.

Our opportunity to compete is now, not in a decades time.

If the plans for Aston Park did come to fruition and Trinity Road was closed off, then that stand could easily accommodate another 2-3k seats - it only reaches full height for just over half the length of the pitch, and the section in the Holte End corner
has scope for another block of seats in the lower tier too.  Fully squared off the Trinity should hold 16-17k.

Based on what we are now doing to the North Stand, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are plans in the background to see a similar job done to Trinity Road at some point (i.e. build around the existing structure), which is where I'm gussing the projected capacity of 52.5k is coming from.  Beyond that would require a new Witton Lane stand, which is probably years away given the complications on that side of the ground.

[paul_e]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'meaningful changes' on the Holte & Trinity.  But the way I see it, without a wholesale redevelopment of the Holte there is very little scope for significant expansion of those two stands.  Yes we could grab a bit back from the corner, but that would add hundreds not thousands of seats.  We could possibly wrap the stand, but if we were going to wrap then the North would make far more sense both in terms of ease of development and aesthetically.

I don't think that cost-benefit-wise there's any chance of anything happening with those two stands (other than implementing the currently planned optimisation) and certainly not in the next 4-5 years.

I agree with what you say re DE, but it's simply not going to happen.  CPO is an incredibly difficult and time-consuming process and I just don't see that happening in the next 20 years.   

I appreciate it's all opinions and we all have one.  But people on here spent the last 3 years telling me that we would definitely be relocating or rebuilding and here we are with a minimal refurb.  It is my guess that that is all that will get done in the foreseeable future and certainly in the next 10 years.

Our opportunity to compete is now, not in a decades time.

It's not a minimal refurb, we're adding 6000 seats to double the size of the stand and when it's complete the plans we're working on will mean a 52k capacity, 2k higher than anything we'd actually announced in the previous concept, and all without reducing the size of the ground by about 10k for 2 years.

If our opportunity to compete is now can we really afford to play in a 3-sided stadium for 2 seasons?

Aren't we supposed to have the world's best stadium development minds on board?

Yes, and they've decided this plan we're going with is a better approach based on access to more expertise and info than we do. It doesn't help your argument to reference that the new plans are a result of us bring Atairos on board.

[chrisw1]

The size of the ground was never going to reduce by 10k for the whole two years.  The works would clearly have been phased and the period that parts of the Witton & Trinity were out of commission would be minimised and mostly done during off off-season.  But you already know this.

The extended stand will be c12k.  The Anfield Road stand is c16,000.

My single point is, this is our only opportunity to maximise the land we have.  If ultimately we need those 4.000 seats there isn't anywhere we can practically get them without nocking down the North Stand. There would have been further benefits of being able to provide far better hospitality facilities, which is something we clearly lag miles behind from the teams we are hoping to compete with.

I've said before, if the remaining stands were unfettered by land restrictions, then this would be a smart, quick upgrade.  But they're not.  So my point is not that this won't be a decent development, just that it's wasting our only realistic opportunity to absolutely maximise the land we have.  It's just my opinion and I appreciate that you disagree.

[Ads]

The ground would have reduced last season though and we made millions and millions off match day income from Champions League games- funds that we will need to avoid the same extent of SCR suffocation next season. A 12,000~ stand is big. It would be the second biggest after the Holte, save that we're adding 1500 to the Trinity. I'm not sure on what the difference is in corporate or GA+ between the two designs. There is still a GA+/corporate deck within the new stand, albeit we're losing those glass boxes (but times have changed with them in any event).

A balance has to be struck and this seems a pretty good improvement. We add 10,000 with no loss of income, increase the offerings at all levels and stay where we are which is a big thing for many.