Villa Park Redevelopment

[PeterWithe]

I'm also less than enthused with Heck but I ask myself, he's got to be on a very attractive package to move here, with that package will come some very ambitious targets for growth, is he really going to get near those targets with the same stadium with the same number of the same types of seats?

I think it all points, not too comprehensively Ill concede, to a much bigger plan.

[VillaTim]

I have a nagging feeling that the North Stand will outlive me

i reckon that stand could survive a direct nuclear hit

[Villan82]

If we agree that a stadium closes the gap, then timescale is irrelevant, it is what must be done and the sooner it commences, the better.

It's not irrelevant if it means we spend the next ten years in the same sized stadium we have now.

That's a difficult choice that has to be made. You can't do both.

So we waste the Emery years in the hope that we do something long in the future?  Don't worry, there will be jam tomorrow.

I dont understand your conclusion.

We have a capability gap. The new North would not remove that gap. So we shouldn't start work on the solution that does remove the gap, maybe even puts us in front of a number, because it's a long term plan?

This is a very UK attitude. I'll use an analogy we've all felt, rich or poor these past few years. The sort of thinking that saw reactors like the (now) Madox site in Ffestiniog decommissioned in 1991 and nothing built to replace it (when strike prices were much lower) and yet here we are with increased energy prices. Susceptible to wilder variation because we didn't bridge capability gaps.

I want jam tomorrow and for the next 50 years because that's what we need, not marmalade. Nobody wants marmalade.

Agree totally here (except that, like Villa mole, I'd pick marmalade over jam any day of the week).  Villa Park as it currently stands was built at a time when we had an average attendance of about 30,000.  I don't know what our current average attendance is, but it must be over 40,000 - and the only reason it's not higher is because the ground is at it's physical limit more often than not.

To me, we either knock down Villa Park and rebuild there, or we build a new ground somewhere else.  There aren't any other options if we want to compete at the top end of the table, because no matter how big a stand we replace the current North Stand with, we've still got a hard limit of (about) 50,000 capacity as we can't make the Holte End, Trinity Road, or Witton Lane stands significantly bigger than they currently are.

Their plans, now scrapped, were to get Villa Park to 52,000 by building a new North stand, making adjustment to increase the capacity of the Trinity and making realignments in a phase 2. I am convinced we could build a deeper (not necessarily higher obviously) stand across Witton Lane. If we were able to build over the Trinity road surely we could at least build over witton lane and long-term we may even be able to (ethically!!!) buy the houses enabling us to build a megga stand on that side. Ironically, the Witton lane side was the main stand before the old Trinity was build in 1924.

Just get us to 50k as planned FFS. Can you imagine how far off a new build would be and the potential problems it would run into with all the global uncertainty (potential four years of a protectionist Trump presidency for starters).

[Villan82]

I honestly think a chunk of my fandom will die at a new ground. It won't be the same. I hate the idea.

[Ads]

Aschually, the new North would have lead to a sell out Villa Park (not counting segregation) of 49 thousand odd. We'd not have got that big club "5" to start our attendance with. Which I have to say, is a bit pathetic. £100m to be a marginally bigger Stadium of Light. Na.

[chrisw1]

Aschually, the new North would have lead to a sell out Villa Park (not counting segregation) of 49 thousand odd. We'd not have got that big club "5" to start our attendance with. Which I have to say, is a bit pathetic. £100m to be a marginally bigger Stadium of Light. Na.

You're just making stuff up now.

[Ads]

Aschually, the new North would have lead to a sell out Villa Park (not counting segregation) of 49 thousand odd. We'd not have got that big club "5" to start our attendance with. Which I have to say, is a bit pathetic. £100m to be a marginally bigger Stadium of Light. Na.

You're just making stuff up now.

I dont make things up.

 
We wouldn't have had a 50,000 attendance as there wasn't 50,000 seats. And that's before segregation. Anti-climatic isn't it? (And yes, the club have said in broad brush press releases on multiple occasions that it will be a "50,000 plus" increase. However, that is not/was not the case. [Third edit to satisfy, I will dig out the part of the PP, but we have permission for 7300ish additional seats; as Villa Park has less than 42,701 seats, we would be 50/60 shy of 50,000- notwithstanding the 500 or so we lose for away segregation.]

Let's mesh 75% of Ibrox with 25% Westfalenstadion and have the best ground in the world.

[chrisw1]

I imagine they will have built segregation into the planning and design. They were talking about pushing it above well above 50k, perhaps they had plans for some of the seat optimisation that they're talking about now?

[chrisw1]

so where did the 50,500 that they stated come from?

[Ads]

so where did the 50,500 that they stated come from?

As it sounds good. Why you wouldn't just design it to breach 50k I do not know. But 19 sell outs a season would have left an average of 49,500 and change. Which would bug the life out of me.

It would also be tricky to wrap the Witton upper with the new North Upper like Risso suggested, as there is/was a structural roof support that runs diagonally down, starting outside of the Witton's foot print and tapering into the block R area. Such is/was the size of the Upper North, you'd have to have an absolute huge Witton to link too. That requires the removal of Witton Lane to build. Phase II would have posed huge challenges.

£100m to box yourself into a project that doesnt achive what we need. So let's build a new ground.

[paul_e]

I dont want to turn this into a discussion about Heck, but I think you're quick to judgment there calling him a fraud. He's not by any definition of the word. He's abrasive for sure; somebody posted an article about roughing up the New Jersey York Red Bulls fans. He's ruffled feathers a plenty here by redelivering the Lerner badge with some minor alterations. That badge wasn't popular already, the manner of its rebirth isn't going to ameliorate that.

But there's also been articles on the 76ers etc about making money, more than we make in 8 years and from Americas working class sport. Can he ride roughshod over fans? He shouldn't, but I think he can given Purslow's greatest achievement was to remove any elasticity from the supply of tickets. Supporting us now is unique in that 150 year history. We are all SeattleVillain now.

A major event has taken place with de facto Comcast buying a chunk of NWSE and by virtue now owning a chunk of Villa Park. You don't see plans, I don't see coincidences. Comcast are here because of Heck and strategically NWSE are obviously satisfied with the strategic change to give up a piece of the pie.

If we don't think Swaris in particular hasn't a handle on it, then we're perhaps ignoring his booting of Gerrard, pursuit of Emery, throat clearing at the Adidas board meeting etc. Swaris is a hands on chap.

A new ground on a different site, around the area where the old Albion at Aston is (derelict sites and old factory mixed with [cheaply!] built newer units, some early 20th student housing, the abandoned Office wearhouse, the Old BRMB unit, gas works- fundamentally around Chester Street. That's what I'd do. Maintain the highest possible attendance and build afresh adjacent to the city centre- New Street the station of choice; A38, A45 all easy reach. I think that's being considered (the new build, not my suggested location).

I agree on the location, that's where I've been looking all along, it ticks all the boxes for me.

[LeeS]

I dont want to turn this into a discussion about Heck, but I think you're quick to judgment there calling him a fraud. He's not by any definition of the word. He's abrasive for sure; somebody posted an article about roughing up the New Jersey York Red Bulls fans. He's ruffled feathers a plenty here by redelivering the Lerner badge with some minor alterations. That badge wasn't popular already, the manner of its rebirth isn't going to ameliorate that.

But there's also been articles on the 76ers etc about making money, more than we make in 8 years and from Americas working class sport. Can he ride roughshod over fans? He shouldn't, but I think he can given Purslow's greatest achievement was to remove any elasticity from the supply of tickets. Supporting us now is unique in that 150 year history. We are all SeattleVillain now.

A major event has taken place with de facto Comcast buying a chunk of NWSE and by virtue now owning a chunk of Villa Park. You don't see plans, I don't see coincidences. Comcast are here because of Heck and strategically NWSE are obviously satisfied with the strategic change to give up a piece of the pie.

If we don't think Swaris in particular hasn't a handle on it, then we're perhaps ignoring his booting of Gerrard, pursuit of Emery, throat clearing at the Adidas board meeting etc. Swaris is a hands on chap.

A new ground on a different site, around the area where the old Albion at Aston is (derelict sites and old factory mixed with [cheaply!] built newer units, some early 20th student housing, the abandoned Office wearhouse, the Old BRMB unit, gas works- fundamentally around Chester Street. That's what I'd do. Maintain the highest possible attendance and build afresh adjacent to the city centre- New Street the station of choice; A38, A45 all easy reach. I think that's being considered (the new build, not my suggested location).

Great post. I'd love to stay at VP forever and I'd love it to remain as a romantic link to football grounds of old. But Aston Villa Football Club needs to thrive for another 150 years. We should make the difficult decisions that give us the best chance of staying at the top. I'd say it probably needs outsiders who don't have our sentimental attachment to make those hard choices.

Having said that, if they move us to the NEC I'll be livid.

[LeeB]

Lol, agreed, common sense you come to expect from posters called Lee plus surname initial.

[VILLA MOLE]

If we could create a 60.000 Victorian Hybrid with 4 stands with sweeping staircases ornate gables and  balconies 

nearby that would be great

[Sexual Ealing]

I'm all for keeping Villa Park at Villa Park, and having it look like Villa Park, but if we were to move then there's no point building an ersatz Victorian theme park.

A new site would mean projecting into the future and building a big MonsterBastardDome out of the bones of the vanquished.