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Author Topic: Villa Park Redevelopment  (Read 528747 times)

Offline exigo

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #735 on: June 19, 2022, 09:57:57 PM »
Aston trains leaving at 20% capacity thanks to two blokes in hi-viz. The bus lane opposite with traffic free access to the city centre has an occasional service, rather than dozens waiting like you get in Liverpool. It ain't the lack of infrastructure, it's the lack of will to run a competent system.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #736 on: June 19, 2022, 11:03:15 PM »
Correct - looking at the other grounds in England which have larger capacities than ours, only Wembley has a better infrastructure and that's solely down to the size of the railway station serving it.

The rest are worse to get away from than VP, so I don't buy the argument that we can't add significantly more capacity for fear of overwhelming the local infrastructure.

You've also got to remember that when the game finishes at VP, 40,000 people leave en masse.  There's absolutely no attempt made to keep anyone at the ground any longer - quite the opposite.  If leaving the ground became that much of an issue, the club could create a bit of a fan park somewhere nearby for people to have a few drinks, get something to eat, etc or even keep the ground open a bit longer to offer much the same, spreading out the flow of people leaving.

Offline Risso

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #737 on: June 19, 2022, 11:31:42 PM »
Correct - looking at the other grounds in England which have larger capacities than ours, only Wembley has a better infrastructure and that's solely down to the size of the railway station serving it.

The rest are worse to get away from than VP, so I don't buy the argument that we can't add significantly more capacity for fear of overwhelming the local infrastructure.

You've also got to remember that when the game finishes at VP, 40,000 people leave en masse.  There's absolutely no attempt made to keep anyone at the ground any longer - quite the opposite.  If leaving the ground became that much of an issue, the club could create a bit of a fan park somewhere nearby for people to have a few drinks, get something to eat, etc or even keep the ground open a bit longer to offer much the same, spreading out the flow of people leaving.

I beg to differ. Newcastle is more or less slap bang in the city centre and is a few minutes walk from the mainline train station. Being in the city centre there are a million more things to do after the match in close proximity than there are around Villa Park.

Man City has load of car parks near by and a tram stop that handles crowds miles more easily than the train stations in Aston do. West Ham is really easy to get to, and would be to leave if they didn't do that ridiculous blocking off of all the walkways after the game. Old Trafford is much less hemmed in than VP. Being in area that is mainly retail/light industrial it is surrounded by dual carriageways and has a tram stop. Arsenal has three tube stations and an over ground train staion within a ten minute walk.


As much as people love Villa Park, it will always have the following problems due to its location in an old and densely populated residential area:

- No large proper car parks anywhere near.
- All of the surrounding streets off Trinity road are old and too narrow for cars to pass easily
- No infrastructure in the immediate area to entice people to stay after the match to stretch out leaving times
- Stations that aren't intended for large groups of people

Add in the fact that transport in Birmingham in general is a joke, and that there doesn't seem to be much will to do anything about it, it all adds up to VP being a being right ballache to get away from.

Online Rory

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #738 on: June 20, 2022, 02:54:28 AM »

Add in the fact that transport in Birmingham in general is a joke, and that there doesn't seem to be much will to do anything about it, it all adds up to VP being a being right ballache to get away from.

I agree. My parents live up towards Tower Hill, maybe 2 miles away maximum. I grew up there and it remains our base for home games, and we have never bothered trying to use any kind of public or private transport, we just walk there and back because it is always quicker.

I spent three years on the dole, signing on at Perry Barr jobcentre, and it was the same then, at 10-11am, midweek. The 40-minute walk was almost always quicker and easier than public transport, and saved the £5-odd that you'd pay for a shite service.

I don't blame the club, I have been using public transport every day for almost 25 years, and Birmingham has the worst network for a sizeable city that I've ever known, apart from possibly Leicester.

It's expected with London - given that 50p of every £1 invested in public infrastructure in the UK is spent in London - but Manchester, Glasgow, Sheffield, Nottingham all have better networks than us.

When I was at UoB 10-15 years ago, I had a bus pass, but would still walk the 6-odd miles home once a week or more, because it was simply easier than relying on the fucking buses.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 02:58:47 AM by Rory »

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #739 on: June 20, 2022, 07:02:27 AM »

Add in the fact that transport in Birmingham in general is a joke, and that there doesn't seem to be much will to do anything about it, it all adds up to VP being a being right ballache to get away from.

I agree. My parents live up towards Tower Hill, maybe 2 miles away maximum. I grew up there and it remains our base for home games, and we have never bothered trying to use any kind of public or private transport, we just walk there and back because it is always quicker.

I spent three years on the dole, signing on at Perry Barr jobcentre, and it was the same then, at 10-11am, midweek. The 40-minute walk was almost always quicker and easier than public transport, and saved the £5-odd that you'd pay for a shite service.

I don't blame the club, I have been using public transport every day for almost 25 years, and Birmingham has the worst network for a sizeable city that I've ever known, apart from possibly Leicester.

It's expected with London - given that 50p of every £1 invested in public infrastructure in the UK is spent in London - but Manchester, Glasgow, Sheffield, Nottingham all have better networks than us.

When I was at UoB 10-15 years ago, I had a bus pass, but would still walk the 6-odd miles home once a week or more, because it was simply easier than relying on the fucking buses.

Having lived in Birmingham most of my life and both north Birmingham in Great Barr not far from Tower Hill and Boldmere for the last 22 years, i agree with most of this re the citys transport infrastructure, its embarrassing to see a tram system following more or less a train line to Wolverhampton, or otherwise construction stalling at Broad St.
other than the cross city line is pretty good if you want to go to a limited number of places in the city north to south or visa versa. Its also pretty good on match days getting to the games, just getting away is the problem as people have pointed out. Although i have to say there was only one game last season where i waited more than 10 mins for a train home, the overcrowding and queuing was more of a problem, heightened for me as i have my kids with me and it sometimes felt like it was almost bordering on unsafe.
Driving is more of an issue, unless i park 25 plus walk away from the stadium, i would be literally doing nearly 2 hours to do a 5 mile drive home.
However, moving to a souless bowl somewhere, losing all of the personal and club history of VP as well as the iconic stadium that makes us stand out as a club, would be a disaster. How many clubs really feel like they retain their identity after moving to a replica identikit superbowl. In addition, the citys shite transport structure, is exactly that, city wide, moving i don’t think solves that problem.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 07:45:06 AM by RamboandBruno »

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #740 on: June 20, 2022, 09:51:54 AM »
Where is Jimbo when you need him?

Offline Risso

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #741 on: June 20, 2022, 10:00:11 AM »

When I was at UoB 10-15 years ago, I had a bus pass, but would still walk the 6-odd miles home once a week or more, because it was simply easier than relying on the fucking buses.

Funnily enough, when I was there at the start of the 90s, I thought the transport system was great. We had two Cross-city lines train stations within a few minutes walk at Selly Oak and the university itself, which were great for going into the city centre and back on. Only ever travelled off peak so it was cheap and there was no overcrowding. I'd ocassionally go and meet my parents at my uncle's house in Sutton, so used it for that as well. Never used the bus because the train sorted all my needs.

Offline AlexAlexCropley

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #742 on: June 20, 2022, 10:01:20 AM »
Just to add, growing up off Aston Lane in the 70s, you could go to Witton circle and get a 5,6,7 or 39 to town. The 39 was my bus of choice as it went up Witton Lane and Aston Cross. The 5 I think went to 5 ways.
Interestly I never got the train until I moved to Stourbridge.

Offline dave.woodhall

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #743 on: June 20, 2022, 10:06:44 AM »
Where is Jimbo when you need him?

Waiting for the trolley bus to take him from outside his house to the Museum of Eighteenth Century Birmingham Sanitation.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #744 on: June 20, 2022, 10:08:22 AM »
One thing I realised being a student in Newcastle was that having the ground in the city centre makes a massive difference to the matchday experience - so many options pre and post mach entertainment, the Metro - which even back in the late 80s shames anything Birmingham has now - making it easy to get into town or directly to the ground.

I also vaguely recall you could buy a combo metro / bus plus match entry ticket which let you travel anywhere on the transport network on match day (although I may have read about that in subsequent years rather than used it myself).

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #745 on: June 20, 2022, 10:08:42 AM »
Where is Jimbo when you need him?

Waiting for the trolley bus to take him from outside his house to the Museum of Eighteenth Century Birmingham Sanitation.

Ha ha, very good.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #746 on: June 20, 2022, 10:11:12 AM »

When I was at UoB 10-15 years ago, I had a bus pass, but would still walk the 6-odd miles home once a week or more, because it was simply easier than relying on the fucking buses.

Funnily enough, when I was there at the start of the 90s, I thought the transport system was great. We had two Cross-city lines train stations within a few minutes walk at Selly Oak and the university itself, which were great for going into the city centre and back on. Only ever travelled off peak so it was cheap and there was no overcrowding. I'd ocassionally go and meet my parents at my uncle's house in Sutton, so used it for that as well. Never used the bus because the train sorted all my needs.

Growing up very close to where I live now on the east side of the city I never used a train. In fact, I think the first time I ever went on a train was down to Wembley for the 2000 FA Cup semi-final.
Castle Bromwich station went with the Beeching cuts, and in the meantime they built a massive motorway, parallel dual cariageway and a huge junction and interchange in between.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #747 on: June 20, 2022, 10:19:17 AM »
Seeing this did get me thinking there's an opportunity to do something a bit more interesting with the space at that end of the ground. Slope the new North Stand roof down towards the pitch and cover it in solar panels, plenty of space in the car park to have claret and blue wind turbines – now the gas holders are disappearing, bit of a statement to replace them with sustainable energy production.
New Stade Brestois stadium linky.


That's very smart. Seeing things like that just reinforces my belief that we should knock the old thing down, and build something huge and brilliant somewhere else.
Can we not just build something huge & brilliant where we are?

I reckon we could get Villa Park up to 60k fairly comfortably. It's then "just" a case of making sure that we're not doing it on the cheap - that we're building stands that will command as big a place in the club's heart as the old Trinity Road stand did in 50/75/100 years time.

Absolutely no point in going too high - we do not have the transport infrastructure to cope with what we drag in already, imagine another 20,000 bedlam
I don't think for a minute we'd sell out 60k regulalrly, but the transport infastructure cannot be the limiting factor in our growth.  There has to be solutions and the club needs to work with BCC to find them.

Offline Des Little

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #748 on: June 20, 2022, 12:13:24 PM »
Let's see how the city copes with the games this summer for an idea on how efficient they are when it comes to transport...

Online algy

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Re: Villa Park Redevelopment
« Reply #749 on: June 20, 2022, 04:38:41 PM »
I don't think for a minute we'd sell out 60k regulalrly, but the transport infastructure cannot be the limiting factor in our growth.  There has to be solutions and the club needs to work with BCC to find them.
I find it very hard to believe that it's impossible to find a solution to get 60,000 people to & from a football stadium that's right next to the M6 & A38, is 5 minutes walk from a railway line 2 stops away from the centre of Birmingham, and maybe 15 minutes walk away from a second railway station.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 04:40:25 PM by algy »

 


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