Villa Park Redevelopment

[ChicagoLion]

My guess is that they decided that turning the ground into a building site was not a good look for the 150th year anniversary and first year back in the top European competition so they would look to maximise revenue in the short term. It still gives them scope to increase capacity in the future while retaining the income from the premium offerings and with a better understanding of the potential market for more of the same.

I think this is a fair guess.

[paul_e]

Yep, agreed.

It also serves as a chance to fully explore the benefits and risks of staying where we are vs looking for a new location. We now have far more expertise in stadium development at the club than we did when the north stand expansion plans were drawn up so I'd be amazed if we aren't using the time to give those people a chance to review the decisions we'd made previously.

[VillaTim]

The best we can do i believe is stay where we are and expand as best we can , the transport links aren't great but most grounds have the same issues . eg. Spurs have a great stadium now but it's still a 2 mile walk from the nearest tube

[Demitri_C]

https://legacywall.avfc.co.uk/?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_content=&utm_campaign=AV150_LegacyWall#/book/select-products

I see that as rather pointless. I wouldnt pay £80 for that

Nobody's forcing you to.

I didnt say they were

[algy]

I’m sure there will be a good take up just as there was for the Trinity Road pavers.

Loads of them are all worn out now , think they were £50

Yep, I bought 2 and they’re both worn down to the point that you can’t read them anymore

Yeah my mum brought me and my brother pavers, but they are faded away. In the FAQ's for this wall they are offering those who have pavers a complimentary plaque if you email them with a scanned copy of their original certificates. Thankfully my Mum had them stashed away in a folder which i've just found so will be taking them up on the offer seeing as they let the pavers fade away with no thought to upkeep

Oh, that's handy to know about.  I'll let my dad know ... my Grandad paid for one of the pavers - long since worn away, but it'd be nice to have his name back up at Villa Park

[VillaTim]

Yeah i'm going to try and find our 3 certificates , absolutely no idea where they are mind

[algy]

We do have another set of billionaire owners. They're the investment arm of Comcast. Finance self evidently was no issue prior to December 2023 and it is even less of an issue now.

The board for NWSE is now also loaded up with expertise in stadium development as of recent appointments.

We comfortably sell out GA, we sell a surprisingly large amount of Arsenal priced GA+ and Corporate.

I'll copy that to save typing it out for the 112th time as this thread goes round and round and round and round.

It's a weird position at the moment, everything about the Comcast deal screams "new stadium" but everything the club says and does points to nothing happening.

I’m starting to think this is part of a negotiation stand off between NSWE and Comcast.

NSWE’s red-line is no new stadium and sweating the existing assets. Comcast need a ROI and therefore a new stadium.  The dance is how that investment/stadium is funded and how much equity is traded.

I always thought we were in a great position to stay put as we could get up to 60k cap by replacing two inadequate stands quite cheaply. Half-a-billion? Whereas a new build would probably set us back treble that.

Then the possibility of new legislation on safe standing ratios that could see us expand beyond that.

I think the big question, and I'd guess it's why Comcast have been brought in, is whether we're able to expand the Witton Lane stand.

At the end of the day, even if we were to build the new North Stand, we still wouldn't be in the 10 largest grounds in the UK.  We could build that stand and we'd still be miles behind the Scab 6, but having spent a huge sum of money to do so.

If it's feasible for us over the next decade or so to buy up however many houses we'd need on Holte Road (looking at the map, I'm guessing a couple of dozen?) then it's quite feasible that we could have a 60k capacity stadium on the existing site - North Stand with a similar capacity to the Holte End (or slightly higher), Witton Lane stand with a similar capacity to the Trinity Road Stand, then partially fill in the corners to make a Trinity Road-North Stand-Witton Lane horseshoe.

On the other hand, if for whatever reason we won't be able to extend Witton Lane stand ... we aren't realistically going to get much more capacity out of the Trinity Road and Holte End stands.  We're going to have to decide whether maybe 55-57k capacity with something similar to the current facilities in 3 of our stands will be enough for us to compete financially.  I'd think maybe not, in which case we might have to start looking at other options.

[Mister E]

I think the big question, and I'd guess it's why Comcast have been brought in, is whether we're able to expand the Witton Lane stand.
At the end of the day, even if we were to build the new North Stand, we still wouldn't be in the 10 largest grounds in the UK.  We could build that stand and we'd still be miles behind the Scab 6, but having spent a huge sum of money to do so.
If it's feasible for us over the next decade or so to buy up however many houses we'd need on Holte Road (looking at the map, I'm guessing a couple of dozen?) then it's quite feasible that we could have a 60k capacity stadium on the existing site - North Stand with a similar capacity to the Holte End (or slightly higher), Witton Lane stand with a similar capacity to the Trinity Road Stand, then partially fill in the corners to make a Trinity Road-North Stand-Witton Lane horseshoe.
On the other hand, if for whatever reason we won't be able to extend Witton Lane stand ... we aren't realistically going to get much more capacity out of the Trinity Road and Holte End stands.  We're going to have to decide whether maybe 55-57k capacity with something similar to the current facilities in 3 of our stands will be enough for us to compete financially.  I'd think maybe not, in which case we might have to start looking at other options.

Another consideration, though, is how we can credibly make VP a multi-use facility, because that is where it is possible to really sweat the assets and make the money that other Champs League stadia seem able to make. As it stands, that is difficult. Even with the capacity increases you suggest, transport, parking, catering and City-centre proximity issues would need to be addressed well.

[Villan82]

Of course I understand the logic in looking at things again. It's just we have been looking at this on and off for the guts of 20-25 years and rival clubs have bit the bullet and expanded.

By postponing, the best case scenario, is we have ensured we will go another 3 years with a capacity that isn't really allowing us to grow at the same pace as we grew off the pitch. In short, we haven't got ourselves into a position to capitalise on the other positive developments happening.

[Demitri_C]

Of course I understand the logic in looking at things again. It's just we have been looking at this on and off for the guts of 20-25 years and rival clubs have bit the bullet and expanded.

By postponing, the best case scenario, is we have ensured we will go another 3 years with a capacity that isn't really allowing us to grow at the same pace as we grew off the pitch. In short, we haven't got ourselves into a position to capitalise on the other positive developments happening.

I agree mate. The only positive i would say is that we have seen some small increases in capacity which i dont think has been done since the ellis days.

Its like the first team instead of kicking on we have gone backwards with some of the signings not kicked on like other clubs did when they got CL. The same apllies to the stadium plan. I think we shoild habe gone up to 45k of possible for now and seen how things went from there

[andrew08]

So I have to find a certificate rather than just point to my name on a slab on the floor. I can bring my passport too if that helps.

[Dante Lavelli]

We do have another set of billionaire owners. They're the investment arm of Comcast. Finance self evidently was no issue prior to December 2023 and it is even less of an issue now.

The board for NWSE is now also loaded up with expertise in stadium development as of recent appointments.

We comfortably sell out GA, we sell a surprisingly large amount of Arsenal priced GA+ and Corporate.

I'll copy that to save typing it out for the 112th time as this thread goes round and round and round and round.

It's a weird position at the moment, everything about the Comcast deal screams "new stadium" but everything the club says and does points to nothing happening.

I’m starting to think this is part of a negotiation stand off between NSWE and Comcast.

NSWE’s red-line is no new stadium and sweating the existing assets. Comcast need a ROI and therefore a new stadium.  The dance is how that investment/stadium is funded and how much equity is traded.

I always thought we were in a great position to stay put as we could get up to 60k cap by replacing two inadequate stands quite cheaply. Half-a-billion? Whereas a new build would probably set us back treble that.

Then the possibility of new legislation on safe standing ratios that could see us expand beyond that.

Correct. We have no reason to move. I think you only move if you are guaranteed a better transport infrastructure and I can't see where that is on that side of the city. 

I just think somebody at the club has figured out that you can up  revenue significantly by offering a more exclusive package on the existing stadium bowl without having to spend big on a big new stand that increases capacity. So this year we spent something like £25m on improving the posh offering instead of £100m getting to 50k.

I hope I am badly wrong but everything that has happened over the past year points to that.

That’s kinda my point above.  NSWE have reached their limit on significant investment in the infrastructure (and are getting a handsome return). Comcast bought in at a much higher price point so will need to change the dial if they want a return. The onus is on them to build a new stadium.

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't think NSWE will have taken on Comcast for the money, or the money alone. It will be for the expertise they bring. Whether that is in media or stadium building, who knows, but it's just such a weird thing for them to take 1/3 of the club as a partner without there being a big, strategic piece in it.

Likewise, Comcast aren't going to be investing unless they can see a big return from us, and it's hard to see that if we're hamstrung by a small ground for too long.

[Dante Lavelli]

NSWE have just cashed in some chips by accepting Comcast’s money. Banking the gains they’ve made

[Louzie0]

Comcast are in the news for announcing a plan to spin off their cable companies into a new company called Xfinity. Their shares are up, so it seems like a popular idea. They want to buy more cable companies and keep Comcast separate from that activity. I’m thinking of how that might affect the Villa but apart from Villa TV going global, not a lot springs to mind!