West Ham vs Aston Villa post match thread

[Risso]

Two stupid goals.
Missed penalty.
Missed sitter.
Disallowed goal/failure to award penalty.

Other than that, we were by far the better team. It's the individual errors and lack of quality in key moments that is costing us.

I'm not blaming VAR for that defeat, it was part of the issue but putting away easy chances and stopping goal-scoring opportunities is the bread and butter stuff we didn't get right. Trez is so frustrating. Watkins was an inch away from scoring that penalty, it was almost perfect and I don't blame him for going top corner.

Those goals though, fuck me it's bad.

Silly defensive mistakes,

It's the inability to keep it tight at the start of each half that drives me mad.  They're way too sloppy, and our record when coming from behind is atrocious.

[Rudy65]

Two stupid goals.
Missed penalty.
Missed sitter.
Disallowed goal/failure to award penalty.

Other than that, we were by far the better team. It's the individual errors and lack of quality in key moments that is costing us.

I'm not blaming VAR for that defeat, it was part of the issue but putting away easy chances and stopping goal-scoring opportunities is the bread and butter stuff we didn't get right. Trez is so frustrating. Watkins was an inch away from scoring that penalty, it was almost perfect and I don't blame him for going top corner.

Those goals though, fuck me it's bad.

Silly defensive mistakes,

It's the inability to keep it tight at the start of each half that drives me mad.  They're way too sloppy, and our record when coming from behind is atrocious.

It doesn’t help when they are sent out early at the start of the second half to warm up and spend most of the time talking to each other and chasing bubbles. 35 seconds in and we concede. Small margins....

[Drummond]

Two stupid goals.
Missed penalty.
Missed sitter.
Disallowed goal/failure to award penalty.

Other than that, we were by far the better team. It's the individual errors and lack of quality in key moments that is costing us.

I'm not blaming VAR for that defeat, it was part of the issue but putting away easy chances and stopping goal-scoring opportunities is the bread and butter stuff we didn't get right. Trez is so frustrating. Watkins was an inch away from scoring that penalty, it was almost perfect and I don't blame him for going top corner.

Those goals though, fuck me it's bad.

Silly defensive mistakes,

It's the inability to keep it tight at the start of each half that drives me mad.  They're way too sloppy, and our record when coming from behind is atrocious.

It doesn’t help when they are sent out early at the start of the second half to warm up and spend most of the time talking to each other and chasing bubbles. 35 seconds in and we concede. Small margins....

It's schoolboy stuff. We've been caught out with McGinn in as a header of the ball a couple of times, he's never going to do that job.

[kippaxvilla2]

And one of the smallest blokes on the pitch scores with a header.

[Toronto Villa]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12147701/var-debate-jamie-carragher-and-gary-neville-demand-changes-after-aston-villa-equaliser-ruled-out

I love how in the article Declan Rice says the West Ham players are “laid back” about VAR and how David Moyes says the decision was right even though he admits Watkins was being fouled. Fuck off. Let’s see how laid back they are when it happens to them. Because it will.

[Brend'Watkins]

Two stupid goals.
Missed penalty.
Missed sitter.
Disallowed goal/failure to award penalty.

Other than that, we were by far the better team. It's the individual errors and lack of quality in key moments that is costing us.

I'm not blaming VAR for that defeat, it was part of the issue but putting away easy chances and stopping goal-scoring opportunities is the bread and butter stuff we didn't get right. Trez is so frustrating. Watkins was an inch away from scoring that penalty, it was almost perfect and I don't blame him for going top corner.

Those goals though, fuck me it's bad.

Silly defensive mistakes,

It's the inability to keep it tight at the start of each half that drives me mad.  They're way too sloppy, and our record when coming from behind is atrocious.

It doesn’t help when they are sent out early at the start of the second half to warm up and spend most of the time talking to each other and chasing bubbles. 35 seconds in and we concede. Small margins....

It's schoolboy stuff. We've been caught out with McGinn in as a header of the ball a couple of times, he's never going to do that job.

Correct. It's pointless having him back defending corners. Watkins should be in there marking the big players. McGinn can go up top and get the out ball if it comes his way.  Ideally, I'd like us to get something approaching a Viera type midfielder in the team.  Someone who can defend when needed in such instances and is box to box. 

[Rudy Can't Fail]

we may have lost 4 out  of 5 but we shouldn’t have
That’s the difference from previous seasons

can’t remember being so pissed of with a performance than last night
to many players need to take a look at themselves

Mings, Target, McGinn, Watkins, Trez none of them are under any pressure of losing their place in the first 11 because we have no quality to replace them
but we should have won easily last night against a side who play Bruce ball
these players let themselves and the club down, it’s not good enough

I dont put Conor in that group because he’s very limited and can’t do any better,
he is what he is out of his depth but that’s not his fault

West Ham are not a good football side yet they are 5 th in the league ffs
Opportunity missed again

That's pretty much where I am, John though I was more pissed off with the result against one of the poorest teams we've played this season. West Ham look like a pub team with big blokes that try to bully the opposition. If Rice can make the England team there's hope for everybody, every ball backwards. The really are horrible to watch and reminded me of a Pulis team.

I echo the thoughts on here about VAR, it's become nonsense.

The one thing that did shine out bright last night was where we are weak in this team and where we need to upgrade. Mings with his Cruyff turns is fooling nobody except himself and his lack of marking at free kicks and corners has been highlighted on here numerous times in the past. Despite playing for England he's not showing any real signs of progressing and he needs to massively improve if we are to reach our potential.

Targett was obviously saving himself for the Newcastle game as he was like a statue for most of the game. I'd love to see his stats from last night. I've walked the dog further than he moved. We really need better.

The midfield could do with some strength in there. Physically it was men against boys as West Ham bullied SJM, Dougie and Conor. Soucek would have been ideal for us in the summer.

Ollie is work in progress. I'm sure he will make it but he still has so much to add to his game starting with close control. Too often the ball just bounces off him. He'll improve but right now it can be so frustrating. His passing too has plenty of space to improve. It would be great to have an option at least on the bench.

Trez can't be allowed to keep on missing sitters. During the game last night I couldn't help thinking what a team we'd be if we had a decent winger. We need quality not just energy. It's another position that would be on my shopping list. I'm not holding my breath on Traore. Maybe we'll go back for the Serbian in January.

Overall I don't see why this team can't finish in the top 8 this season other than lack of squad depth or fucking VAR. Dropping three easy points last night doesn't help but at least the foundations are there to build on. Comparisons with last season are wrong. Last year we were mainly a shambles, this year we need some fine tuning, the only problem is the parts are hard to find and generally expensive.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot Jack. One or two dives last night don't help him as refs will see it and think he's an actor when in fact he gets kicked from pillow to post. The ref last night was shocking and completely lost control of the game, allowing West Ham to take him out the game on a regular basis and not do anything about it.

[amfy]

To me, our form is annoying rather than concerning. 'Concerning' would be scratching around the bottom 8 and wondering where the next win is coming from, 'annoying' is knowing that were it not for missing a handful of chances in two games we'd be top of the league with a game in hand.

It is concerning for me. It’s no good beating Liverpool and Arsenal so convincingly and then losing to Leeds, Southampton, Brighton and West Ham. It’s much better than last season, a real improvement, but our inability to create so little chances (and then not take them, when we do) given how much possession we have is worrying.

So that’s Southampton & West Ham who are 4th & 5th whilst Arsenal are 14th?

...& we had 16 shots, 6 on target - that’s quite a few chances, although I’d agree putting them away is an issue especially when a penalty is off target.

[Luke8]

That's pretty much where I am, John though I was more pissed off with the result against one of the poorest teams we've played this season. West Ham look like a pub team with big blokes that try to bully the opposition. If Rice can make the England team there's hope for everybody, every ball backwards. The really are horrible to watch and reminded me of a Pulis team.

Do you not think they looked bad because we were pretty good? Always find it odd when people talk about poor performance of teams as if the opposition have no influence on that. They have been pretty decent this season - draw with Man City, smashing Wolves and Leicester - and we fairly comprehensively outplayed them. I appreciate that game state (them having a lead to defend) influences that a bit, but we are a missed penalty and sitter away from an goof away win. And that’s without even getting into the stupidity of VAR

Obviously we have areas/points of our game that we need to improve, but if you look at the performances in the last three defeats we are not far away from being a decent team.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

That's pretty much where I am, John though I was more pissed off with the result against one of the poorest teams we've played this season. West Ham look like a pub team with big blokes that try to bully the opposition. If Rice can make the England team there's hope for everybody, every ball backwards. The really are horrible to watch and reminded me of a Pulis team.

Do you not think they looked bad because we were pretty good? Always find it odd when people talk about poor performance of teams as if the opposition have no influence on that. They have been pretty decent this season - draw with Man City, smashing Wolves and Leicester - and we fairly comprehensively outplayed them. I appreciate that game state (them having a lead to defend) influences that a bit, but we are a missed penalty and sitter away from an goof away win. And that’s without even getting into the stupidity of VAR

Obviously we have areas/points of our game that we need to improve, but if you look at the performances in the last three defeats we are not far away from being a decent team.

I'd not seen West Ham before and was shocked how poor they were, preferring to play heading tennis rather than on the floor. Plenty of hoofing too, generally a really ugly side to watch but no surprise given Moyes is their manager.  The West Ham way' takes on a whole new meaning. Were the crap because we were so good? No. By our standards we weren't at our best, far from it and most teams would have looked good against that dross.

[olaftab]

Have those PGMOL ****** apologised yet?

[Bobby Boy]

Have those PGMOL ****** apologised yet?

Why would PGMOL deign to apologise to the likes of us? They would need humility and self-reflection to do that.

[Rudy65]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12147701/var-debate-jamie-carragher-and-gary-neville-demand-changes-after-aston-villa-equaliser-ruled-out

I love how in the article Declan Rice says the West Ham players are “laid back” about VAR and how David Moyes says the decision was right even though he admits Watkins was being fouled. Fuck off. Let’s see how laid back they are when it happens to them. Because it will.

Not sure Declan is the brightest. He was raging about the penalty he gave away when it was clear he had pulled, albeit slightly, Trez’s shirt. Pen all day long

[olaftab]

Have those PGMOL ****** apologised yet?

Why would PGMOL deign to apologise to the likes of us? They would need humility and self-reflection to do that.

Yes and it would also recognise that may be the game is all about fans and that would be a terrible admission.

[fredm]

Watching last night I had not realised that Villa had joined a "walking football" league.  West Ham were there for the taking if we had upped our game and moved both ourselves and the ball a damn sight quicker.  Need to have a bit of Bielsa style injected into them. Throughout the team, but with some more than others, there was a general apathy to up the tempo and I genuinely thought at half time that Smith would have got stuck into them and we would see a different team in the second half.  But no, just the same as before.  I am beginning to think that there are certain players who believe they are too good to be dropped.  Well they need to be told in no uncertain terms what the position is.  They are good enough to reach a decent league position but need to put in the hard graft to succeed.