Premier League reform proposals

[cdbearsfan]

I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

On the league cup stuff, I'd be fine with clubs in Europe being excluded from it so long as it kept the Europa league place for the winners (and reverted it back to going to the runners up if the winners get into Europe via the league). Having European games in the same nights as league cup games makes a lot more sense than now and most premier league clubs don't play a main team until the QF at the earliest anyway.

Absolutely not. Exempt the top teams from it and it immediately becomes a glorified Leyland Daf Cup.

It is one of only two domestic trophies we have a realistic chance of winning in the coming years. We have won it five times and many of our greatest ever players have lifted the trophy.

Your plan would completely undermine it. And winning a trophy and not being able to defend it is silly.

[algy]

I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

On the league cup stuff, I'd be fine with clubs in Europe being excluded from it so long as it kept the Europa league place for the winners (and reverted it back to going to the runners up if the winners get into Europe via the league). Having European games in the same nights as league cup games makes a lot more sense than now and most premier league clubs don't play a main team until the QF at the earliest anyway.

Absolutely not. Exempt the top teams from it and it immediately becomes a glorified Leyland Daf Cup.

It is one of only two domestic trophies we have a realistic chance of winning in the coming years. We have won it five times and many of our greatest ever players have lifted the trophy.

Your plan would completely undermine it. And winning a trophy and not being able to defend it is silly.

Agree 100%.

I quite like the quickfire early rounds this season, I'd be quite happy to keep that. Perhaps play the final slightly earlier in the season. But I like the League Cup and don't think it needs to be devalued.

[paul_e]

Yep, LC runners up have never been given a European spot.

Was that only ever for the FA cup then? Fair enough.

I'm not sure letting the european sides miss out undermines the competition more than premier league teams regularly picking a completely rotated team or Liverpool playing their U18 squad because of a fixture clash.

Either way as a tournament it needs something to liven it up because it's been an ugly step sister for the last 15-20 years, mostly as a result of the increased games in europe forcing the rounds into the worst time slots where teams just don't want to risk their better players.

[PeterWithesShin]

It was only the FA Cup, and that was only for x years.

Reality is the LC as a whole has been undermined for yonks. I think the only thing people have to decide is which undermines it the most, lineups like Wolves and Liverpool did last season or them not being in it in the first place.

[cdbearsfan]

The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience, is repulsive.

[Rory]

The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience is repulsive.

Well said, CD.

[ldavfc4eva]

Beat me to it Rory, very well said CD totally agree

[curiousorange]

Funny how there aren't too many games when there's a Club World Cup tournament that needs winning.

[danno]

And there’s not nearly enough competitive games for all the best young players they stockpile.

[Hockley Lion]

This is nothing less than an attempted coup d'état by individual owners of certain clubs within the league. It's unconstitutional as the PL was set up with members of equal status from the outset.

It is proof positive that these sleezy individuals are not "fit and proper" to own and run a club within a broadly democratic league. They should be required to sell their stake in the clubs they own in the same way people are be prevented from buying clubs or owning more than one in the same league. Some owners I believe have had to sell one of their clubs because of a conflict of interest. There is no room for them within the democratic structures of any of the English leagues for the same reason.

No league can be considered fair if certain members have elevated status, rights, and power over the majority of other members.

From what I've seen their fans don't like it, even the government doesn't like it, and I don't see how anyone else could like it either. All the stuff about reducing the size of the league and the trickle down of funds to lower divisions is smoke and mirrors.

They should face a committee to answer charges that they are trying to:

1) Seize power of a democratic organisation, against the best interests of the majority of its members.

2) They are trying to re-constitute the league to benefit themselves at others expense and using threats to leave as aggressive leverage.

Surely only the Premier League is affiliated to have entrants into the top European competitions from English clubs? That's why they need to change it from within.

Make it clear in no uncertain terms that their proposal is incompatible with fairness and give them the option of staying and finding new owners, or leaving English football immediately. Make it clear also that returning as the same club with their current owners and history would not be allowed. They would have to be phoenix clubs starting in the lowest area division and working their way up. Then see how long they need to think about dropping their proposals.

[Hookeysmith]

And where do we proportion the blame of all of this with Sky?

They obsess over how much money players are bought and sold for, to the point it becomes a senior part of their programming scheduling.
Club's have had to face huge spiralli g costs for players with wages following suit. This means that they have to constantly reinvent revenue streams to keep up. (Who can forget John Deere proud lawn mower providers for red filth united)

It really has become a financial monster that has to be continually fed.

Don't hate the players, hate the game

[robbo1874]

The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience, is repulsive.

completely agree with your last point. It’s the only legitimate silverware I’ve been in the ground on the day to see us lift. Happy times- a win in a proper cup at Wembley stays with you forever.

[eamonn]

Can we hate the agents too?

[chrisw1]

The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience, is repulsive.

Good stuff CD.

[ian c.]

After an archive search I've found the following words of  William McGregor ,published in an article in the Sunderland Echo , 31 January 1903 - they seem relevant to what's going on over a century later. I can't attach the extract so I've reproduced it in quotes here :

"There was no idea (when the League was founded) that the League should ever become a legislative body. An organisation which has merely the interests of its own members at heart cannot legislate for the welfare of the pastime as a whole, and those who would seek to give the League functions which it did not originally claim are not acting in the best interests of football as a whole." ...

I like that. I'm surprised Philosophy Football haven't put it on a T-Shirt yet.