Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: eric woolban woolban on October 11, 2020, 01:21:37 PM

Title: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: eric woolban woolban on October 11, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
Concerning...

BBC News - Premier League reform proposals: Liverpool & Man Utd lead plans for shake-up
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54499998
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ad@m on October 11, 2020, 01:22:31 PM
Absolute joke. Not even trying to hide the bribe to bring a desperate Football League along with them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: andrew08 on October 11, 2020, 01:27:52 PM
I’ve got no issue with the league reducing if that’s what they want but I’d be concerned about ‘special status’. Does that mean they can’t get relegated?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 11, 2020, 01:33:28 PM
Is nobody asking why they need to change the vote system 🤔
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 11, 2020, 01:37:45 PM
My considered opinions is Fuck off you ******.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2020, 01:39:53 PM
Fuck right off you fucking parasites.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
Fuck off you money grabbing ******
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 11, 2020, 01:46:43 PM
Turkey's voting for Christmas springs to mind.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2020, 01:48:27 PM
If they want to reduce the league by 2 clubs then Man Utd and Liverpool fucking off gets my vote.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 11, 2020, 01:53:34 PM
In football as in life never trust a Red!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: eamonn on October 11, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
How do Southampton get special status above us? They were in League One and outside the top flight for 7 years out of the last 20.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Axl Rose on October 11, 2020, 02:02:48 PM
When I click on the link, see the photo of scum FC celebrating their title win, and notice two players wearing sunglasses, I think, 'you're even bigger ****** than I thought possible'.

Both Liverpool and Man Utd should be dissolved and all players/management/suppoters of both clubs arrested, before being sent to the sun. Forever. Actually, grind their shit stadiums into dust and send that to the sun, too.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Axl Rose on October 11, 2020, 02:04:08 PM
Scrolling down further, there's Pogba, the dabbing twat. He can be at the front of the space shuttle.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: TopDeck113 on October 11, 2020, 02:05:55 PM
Let's have what exactly is meant by "special status" and on what grounds certain clubs will be granted it. The BBC Sport website is - as so often the case - wrong.  West Ham and Southampton have not been Premier League ever-presents.

This is a carve-out by a self-appointed and self-styled elite. Mark my words, the next step will be the end of collective broadcasting deals.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 11, 2020, 02:15:45 PM
Let's have what exactly is meant by "special status" and on what grounds certain clubs will be granted it. The BBC Sport website is - as so often the case - wrong.  West Ham and Southampton have not been Premier League ever-presents.

This is a carve-out by a self-appointed and self-styled elite. Mark my words, the next step will be the end of collective broadcasting deals.


Exactly my thoughts too, i mean ffs! six clubs voting for something gets a motion passed?
They'll vote in favour of the top six receiving the lions share of broadcast revenue and that will be that.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 11, 2020, 02:17:54 PM
How do Southampton get special status above us? They were in League One and outside the top flight for 7 years out of the last 20.

Liverpool need a feeder club in the league, I thought West Ham was the stranger one
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2020, 02:21:53 PM
Let's have what exactly is meant by "special status" and on what grounds certain clubs will be granted it. The BBC Sport website is - as so often the case - wrong.  West Ham and Southampton have not been Premier League ever-presents.

This is a carve-out by a self-appointed and self-styled elite. Mark my words, the next step will be the end of collective broadcasting deals.

It doesn't say they've been ever presents. That portion is clumsily worded and punctuated though, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2020, 03:08:35 PM
Sadly for them, they won't be able to get it through the current voting structure. A real shame for Ireland's two most glamorous clubs.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 11, 2020, 03:12:49 PM
Scrolling down further, there's Pogba, the dabbing twat. He can be at the front of the space shuttle.



Made me laugh 😆
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: manic-road on October 11, 2020, 03:26:02 PM
So proposed by Liverpool's owners and already back by Man U. Hope they fuck off and form a European league. They propose that the League Cup and community shield is scrapped which would deprive charities of income.
I am open minded for reducing the league to 18 teams but this smacks of self righteousness
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: charlatan on October 11, 2020, 04:00:22 PM
Seems they want to shaft the other PL clubs by having a share of everyone's PL income go to the EFL, but none of their Champions League income. Difficult to see why other PL clubs would go along with being guilt tripped into losing power and relative income like this. There seems to be no reason why helping out the EFL has to be linked to any PL restructuring. No club should have special status, not even the Villa.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2020, 04:10:26 PM
Amazing when those clubs moan about fixture congestion that they never suggest playing less Champions League games.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: TopDeck113 on October 11, 2020, 04:15:07 PM
Amazing when those clubs moan about fixture congestion that they never suggest playing less Champions League games.

Or as a result of that fixture congestion, the period when players need to be resting never seems to coincide with a lucrative friendly in the far east.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: robleflaneur on October 11, 2020, 04:42:14 PM
The quicker these 'important' clubs form a European league the better. Manure plastic fans will soon tire of midtable finishes.Arsenal will change their manager 2 or 3 times a season and Liverpool can claim that Alexander-Arnold is the best RB in the world and the team can avoid 7-2 drubbings.Selfish,odious.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: aev on October 11, 2020, 04:43:08 PM
I hope Man U and Liverpool just fk off to a European Super League.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2020, 04:48:09 PM
I'd rather they fucked off to the Lancashire Combination League.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: FatSam on October 11, 2020, 04:50:25 PM
I might be wrong, but I don't  think this (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/11/project-big-picture-premier-league-and-efl-plan-radical-reform-to-avoid-crisis) is being discussed in any other threads.

Project Big Picture: Premier League and EFL plan radical reform to avoid crisis
Plan includes top flight giving 25% of future TV deals to EFL
Shake-up devised by Liverpool and Manchester United owners
Paul MacInnes

@PaulMac
Sun 11 Oct 2020 14.14 BSTLast modified on Sun 11 Oct 2020 15.24 BST

Plans for the radical reform of English football, which would include sharing Premier League TV revenue with the EFL but also a concentration of power amongst the “big six” clubs, are being actively considered at the top of the game.

Known as Project Big Picture, the plans have been devised by the owners of Liverpool and Manchester United but embraced by the EFL. If agreed by the Premier League as a whole, the reforms would stave off the immediate financial crisis that threatens to swallow the game. They would also bring to an abrupt end to structures that have been in place for more than 25 years.

According to details first reported in the Daily Telegraph, Project Big Picture would involve the Premier League agreeing to give 25% of its future TV deals to the EFL and bringing an end to parachute payments. It would also involve the top flight shrinking from 20 clubs to 18 and Championship playoffs including the 16th-placed Premier League side, who would compete to stay up against three promotion hopefuls from the second tier.

In return, however, the current voting structure of the Premier League would be abandoned. Instead of one club, one vote, and a majority of 14 being required to pass any change in rules, a new system would give extra power to clubs with “long-term shareholder status”, the nine longest-serving teams in the league.

That group comprises the big six, plus Everton, Southampton and West Ham United. Under the plans it would require only six “long-term shareholder” votes to approve any changes in Premier League rules, a shift that could effectively render the other nine clubs in the top flight powerless.

Other proposed changes are reported to include the scrapping of the League Cup and Community Shield, and the launch of a new “Premier League summer tournament”.

Fourteen Premier League clubs would have to vote in favour of any proposals if they were to be implemented but in a highly critical statement, the Premier League said any discussions should be conducted through the ‘proper channels’.

“We have seen media reports today regarding a plan to restructure football in this country,” the Premier League said in statement. “Football has many stakeholders, therefore this work should be carried out through the proper channels enabling all clubs and stakeholders the opportunity to contribute.

“In the Premier League’s view, a number of the individual proposals in the plan published today could have a damaging impact on the whole game and we are disappointed to see that Rick Parry, chair of the EFL, has given his on-the-record support.

“The Premier League has been working in good faith with its clubs and the EFL to seek a resolution to the requirement for Covid-19 rescue funding. This work will continue.”
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: jwarry on October 11, 2020, 04:54:06 PM
More like project drawbridge!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Pat Mustard on October 11, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
The pandemic being used as an excuse for a power grab by the top 6? I’m shocked.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: CT on October 11, 2020, 04:55:05 PM
Let the “big six” go and play in their own league.

I won’t miss them one bit. Promote six up from the championship.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2020, 04:56:16 PM
No. Villa should always aspire to compete with the best.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 11, 2020, 04:58:16 PM
I think we already have a thread running for this shit suggestion.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: FatSam on October 11, 2020, 05:15:20 PM
The proposal for inequitable voting rights undermines the integrity of the competition. If the 'big six' don't want to compete on equal terms with the other domestic teams then they should just f**k off. They are welcome to start their own 6-team domestic tournament if they want, in addition to a closed shop European Super League.

The big six are obviously confident that losing 25% of future EPL TV revenue to the EFL is more than compensated for by greater access to revenues from expanded European competition. It feels inevitable that the two most successful clubs, who are both US-owned, are actively promoting this direction of travel. Perhaps it would be inevitable even if they were UK-owned.

Not that I would want us to be implicated with something as morally dubious as this, but it is interesting that Southampton and West Ham have more status in this proposal than we do due to us having been relegated in 15/16. Other suggestions such as total number of season in the EPL, total number of seasons in the top flight, total number of league titles etc. would obviously have resulted in a different power dynamic.

 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: FatSam on October 11, 2020, 05:15:50 PM
I think we already have a thread running for this shit suggestion.
If we do, please feel free to merge.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 11, 2020, 05:16:23 PM
I hope Man U and Liverpool just fk off to a European Super League.

Better still let their owners bring them 'home' to the MLS. Purely in the interest of boosting the game in the US as they always have Soccer's best interests at heart.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: eric woolban woolban on October 11, 2020, 05:19:27 PM
Yeah I did it but put it in the wrong forum - other football
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 11, 2020, 05:25:01 PM
Yeah I did it but put it in the wrong forum - other football

Not really, hopefully this proposal is 0% Villa.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2020, 05:29:53 PM
Yeah I did it but put it in the wrong forum - other football

Not really, hopefully this proposal is 0% Villa.

There no way Villa would vote for this as it stands, it would, effectively, silence us in future discussions, why would we ever agree to that?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: wince on October 11, 2020, 05:41:28 PM
The gap is unbridgeable because the big 6 bought their way to the top. Bindipper fc, manure, cheatski, Arright ahh kid city et el can fuck the fuck off. Amazing that Southampton are in there given that they have won the square root of fuck and all. It’s about brand protection and if you wanted to bridge the gap, why not make the leagues bigger? 24 in the prem and so on.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: FatSam on October 11, 2020, 05:41:51 PM
I was thinking the other day, before today's news, about the EPL's attitude towards the EFL's current economic strife. In particular, the view as expressed by Sean Dyche, that football is no different than any other industry, and that we wouldn't expect hedge funds to help each other out.

This only makes sense in terms of business. Sport, however, relies on there being a competition. The clubs at the top are in their position because they have proven themselves successful within this competition. It wouldn't mean anything if their position was pre-ordained, and there was no jeopardy about losing that position, however unlikely this might seem. It seems to me that you either accept the competition, or you don't. So the big six should either stay within an equitable EPL, or leave.

I don't recall the exact details, but didn't Villa bail-out WBA at some point in the 19th century? I can't remember if this was before or after the establishment of the EFL. My understanding was that this was to ensure that they continued to exist so that Villa could continue playing them. I suppose this wasn't necessarily about the authenticity of the competition, and might have been about lucrative local derbies.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Taylor on October 11, 2020, 05:55:25 PM
Is this the same Liverpool FC who just got dicked 7-2 by a “lesser” team?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 11, 2020, 06:34:32 PM
How do they explain away Citehs non PL status and general shitness for years and years.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave17 on October 11, 2020, 06:49:49 PM
How do they explain away Citehs non PL status and general shitness for years and years.
given Southampton and whu are getting special status whereas we and the barcodes aren’t you’d imagine we would be no votes?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Damo70 on October 11, 2020, 06:51:44 PM
More like project drawbridge!

Don't forget we already have FFP. This would be project drawbridge part two. In no way should the Premier League comprise less than twenty teams. Unless Manure, City & 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' want to piss off in which case I'm all for it. Then Arse, Spuds and Everton will want out. What kind of super league structure would feel the need to include Southampton (last major trophy 1976) and West Ham (last major trophy 1980). They have both also bobbed up and down the divisions in recent years.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 11, 2020, 06:54:24 PM
So we lead the protests against the five substitutions rule, and we don't get the super special voting status? 

What a coincidence.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Clive W on October 11, 2020, 07:07:53 PM
From the DT

“ Each of the nine clubs who, at any time of determination, have been members of the Premier League continuously for more seasons than other clubs will be considered a ‘Long-Term Shareholder’.”

Key word is “continuously” which is why the 9 consists of the big six (sorry chaps  but it saves typing) plus Southampton,Everton and WHU

We’re excluded because of our 2 years in the wilderness
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ads on October 11, 2020, 07:10:05 PM
If Man United and Liverpool want to become some sort of Masonic Lodge, then they can fuck off and form their own.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on October 11, 2020, 07:11:33 PM
From the DT

“ Each of the nine clubs who, at any time of determination, have been members of the Premier League continuously for more seasons than other clubs will be considered a ‘Long-Term Shareholder’.”

Key word is “continuously” which is why the 9 consists of the big six (sorry chaps  but it saves typing) plus Southampton,Everton and WHU

We’re excluded because of our 2 years in the wilderness
3 years!  I can't see our owners taking this lying down somehow!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ad@m on October 11, 2020, 07:14:35 PM
This special status bollocks is just an attempt to bribe a few extra teams to back their plan.

It's so blatant. If this passes it means that the 'Big 6' run the league. They can push through any rule change they want. That's why they're so willing to bribe the Football League and a handful of other Premier League clubs, hoping that covid has made them so desperate they can't turn the offer down.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 11, 2020, 07:19:46 PM
Southampton Everton and West Ham must know that only needing six votes from nine to pass a motion is not good news for them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 11, 2020, 07:22:31 PM
is this a big 6 where 1 one them has never even won the Premier League and the other have won it the same amount of times as Leicester and Blackburn?

Right.

Can't see any of this happening.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: richtheholtender on October 11, 2020, 07:23:59 PM
What about special status for a club who formed league football from the start?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Clive W on October 11, 2020, 07:24:16 PM
Interesting that the FA has the “golden share” in the PL which allows them to veto anything

So if this goes through we could have a situation where the 9 “pleb” clubs (including us) vote on a proposal, which gets vetoed by the super 9 only for the FA to veto the veto

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 11, 2020, 07:25:34 PM
all sounds like a waste of money - especially when small clubs are crying out for funding or they'll be disappearing forever.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: robleflaneur on October 11, 2020, 07:27:23 PM
Southampton Everton and West Ham must know that only needing six votes from nine to pass a motion is not good news for them.
And with fewer Prem.teams,WHU and Soton could easily be relegated and lose that wonderful 'special status'.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Clive W on October 11, 2020, 07:31:04 PM
There’s a very comprehensive summary of the plan in the DT. Some huge financial implications

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/project-big-picture-key-proposals-premier-league-over-haul-revealed/
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Richard E on October 11, 2020, 08:07:13 PM
My response to this proposal consists of two words, the latter of which is ‘off.’
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: stevo_st on October 11, 2020, 08:13:18 PM
Liverpool really did taking a 7-2 thumping badly didn’t they
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 11, 2020, 08:22:41 PM
it was inevitable that the crisis would cause a significant shake up, this is stage 1.
more to come
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2020, 08:23:13 PM
So 6 clubs will have near control over the other 14

Quote
Each of the nine clubs who, at any time of determination, have been members of the Premier League continuously for more seasons than other clubs will be considered a ‘Long-Term Shareholder’.

Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can cause to be adopted without approval from the other clubs:

i) the election or removal of the CEO and/or a member of the board;

ii) amendments to cost control rules and regulations;

iii) contracts for the sale of league broadcasting and media rights

Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can prevent from being adopted resolutions to:

i) change the distribution rights of the sponsorship, commercial and broadcasting rights sold

centrally;

ii) change the distribution to clubs from other PL centralised rights or assets

c) alter in a material way the nature of the competition

Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can veto the Premier League board’s approval of a proposed new owner.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2020, 08:29:41 PM
Amazing how many of the changes seem to benefit mainly the wankfest 6.

Clubs want less games, and yet instead of just keeping season length as it is meaning 4 midweek games go so there's your rest time for your players. Oh what's that, the PL will start later and the pre-season friendlies period is extended? So you'll swap those 4 league games for more lucrative friendlies instead.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: SaddVillan on October 11, 2020, 08:30:25 PM
Fewer league fixtures, no League Cup = more "space" for Chump$ £€ague.
No Community Shield = more space for pre-season money tours.

The big 6 will have calculated that the income lost from 4 league games will be more than made up extra tour games and European dosh.

The other if they vote for this are like turkeys voting for Christmas: their income will be reduced and the odds of getting relegated will increase too.

If it goes through, you can then see the "big 6" who strangely would have a majority of the 9 "long term shareholders" to vote through an arrangement whereby they'd shaft the other 12 clubs.

Have these clubs got the common sense to see through this charade.

If not - welcome to franchise football.

The sooner they bugger off to their EuroSuperLeague in which they just keep playing the same few dozen clubs in a kind of footballing Grounding Day (from which they will not be allowed to return) then so much the better.

And don't be surprised to see them trotting off during the winter break to warmer climes for the Dubai/Emirates Adidas/Nike Trophy.

Cynical?
You be the judge.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 11, 2020, 08:47:49 PM
Instead of saying "Great, Man united and Liverpool can bugger off and form a Euro Super League", I would want Villa to come out fighting.  We created this thing, and for the first time in a long, long time we have some owners with serious clout and nous.  There is an opportunity here to come up with a counterproposal that will smash the cartel and financially aid the EFL. 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2020, 08:57:23 PM
David Conn's piece on this issue. Surprised he's been taken in, although he's right about the sharing of revenues:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/oct/11/plan-to-mend-the-great-crack-in-football-pyramid-should-not-be-swept-off-the-table?CMP=share_btn_tw
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Clive W on October 11, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
“Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can veto the Premier League board’s approval of a proposed new owner.”

So let’s for the sake of argument say that the barcodes get their act together and get taken over by Jeff Bezos, the world’s wealthiest man - clearly this would be a massive threat to the “big six”

We could then have the situation whereby:
  Abramovich - the Russian “businessman “
  The Glazers at Man Utd
  The porn barons at WHU
  The human rights abusers at Man City
  Levy at Spurs (I’ll keep my £7m a year but all non-playing staff should     accept a 20% wage cut)
  Various other Russian “business people “ at Arsenal

could all conspire to declare the barcodes owner not fit to run a PL club

Unbelievable

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 11, 2020, 08:59:58 PM
They’re idiots and they’re short sighted.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2020, 09:03:03 PM
Instead of saying "Great, Man united and Liverpool can bugger off and form a Euro Super League", I would want Villa to come out fighting.  We created this thing, and for the first time in a long, long time we have some owners with serious clout and nous. There is an opportunity here to come up with a counterproposal that will smash the cartel and financially aid the EFL.

It has crossed my mind that this, along with Wolves' new ownership and the seemingly constantly imminent threat that Newcastle might finally get their shit together, might have something to do with all this.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Clive W on October 11, 2020, 09:04:56 PM
Another  DT article that seems to echo our thoughts

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/11/premier-league-project-big-picture-brazen-power-grab-hostile/

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 11, 2020, 09:08:22 PM
There's no way that they can get 14 clubs to vote themselves into irrelevance. There'll be a PR campaign to paint the rest of the league as selfish and greedy (it's not a difficult charge to make stick), and they'll threaten to break away. Off you fuck, as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 11, 2020, 09:13:45 PM
There's no way that they can get 14 clubs to vote themselves into irrelevance. There'll be a PR campaign to paint the rest of the league as selfish and greedy (it's not a difficult charge to make stick), and they'll threaten to break away. Off you fuck, as far as I'm concerned.

A counter proposal could sway that PR battle, (e.g.) don't scrap the community shield, keep parachute payments etc.
Off the top of my head making one of the charities the community shield helps something one Marcus Rashford MBE endorses.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2020, 09:14:25 PM
Quote
Angered by the way the story broke without their blessing, the Premier League has already given it short shrift, viewing this as a regrettable power-grab. In fact one well-placed Premier League source has described it as a "takeover attempt, rather than a rescue package".
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2020, 09:14:37 PM
They’re idiots and they’re short sighted.

They're greedy and they're prepared to hang out the 'other' 14 to dry as the selfish clubs that killed English football. I mean, they could just approve the grant to save the football league with no strings attached, but an opportunity like a global pandemic comes along once a century. Strike while the iron's hot.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 11, 2020, 09:32:07 PM
Instead of saying "Great, Man united and Liverpool can bugger off and form a Euro Super League", I would want Villa to come out fighting.  We created this thing, and for the first time in a long, long time we have some owners with serious clout and nous. There is an opportunity here to come up with a counterproposal that will smash the cartel and financially aid the EFL.

It has crossed my mind that this, along with Wolves' new ownership and the seemingly constantly imminent threat that Newcastle might finally get their shit together, might have something to do with all this.

I think this is exactly the reason why we now see these proposals, their cartel is becoming increasingly under threat.   Let's fight fire with fire and show leadership.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 11, 2020, 09:34:05 PM
A counter proposal could sway that PR battle, (e.g.) don't scrap the community shield, keep parachute payments etc.
Off the top of my head making one of the charities the community shield helps something one Marcus Rashford MBE endorses.

I don't really care about the Community Shield and could live with a reduction to 18 teams. The EFL Cup should be retained but the change in voting is the bit that concerns me even if Villa were one of the 'special' clubs.

To be fair the Man U fans  on their forum pretty much all feel it's a terrible idea. One suggested that if you qualify for Europe you don't play in the EFL Cup which seems sensible enough.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on October 11, 2020, 09:37:29 PM
Cut through all the bullshit and its essentially a quest for more power, more money.No surprise that the two clubs at the forefront are the two most despised throughout the UK.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 11, 2020, 09:38:53 PM
I'm not sure who does care about the community shield, but scrapping a game that raises money for charity is incredibly poor form.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 11, 2020, 09:50:01 PM
That they want to bin 1 game that benefits loads of charities around the country in favour of a bunch of lucrative friendles that benefit a handful of clubs tells you everything you need to know.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Steve67 on October 11, 2020, 10:14:09 PM
Why don't they just fuck off and start their own European league? We all know it's what they would prefer.  Also, those clubs who come up to the Premier League, do they get a vote as they are not part of the head table, due to being so new to the league?  Sounds like the so-called big clubs trying to bully the smaller clubs and paying the lower league clubs off with a bribe so they vote this through?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: old man villa fan on October 11, 2020, 10:19:34 PM
I do not agree at all with the voting changes proposed.

I am not against a reduction to 18 in the PL but the number of teams to be relegated would have to be reduced to two to bring some financial stability.  The Championship should be reduced to 20 teams and look to have 5 divisions with the bottom 2 split north and south to help the finances of the clubs and the fans travelling.

The league cup should continue but without the teams in Europe.  Also, keeping midweek dates clear for just European matches should be scrapped so that the league cup matches could be played and to cut down on fixture congestion.

Agree with what everybody is saying in that this is a power grab by the 'top 6' to take control of English football.  Take away true competition and the fans will start to leave football.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Holte132 on October 11, 2020, 10:23:22 PM
Seems the Premier League itself has criticised the plans

https://www.90min.com/posts/premier-league-criticise-project-big-picture-plans-to-shake-up-english-football
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: frank black on October 11, 2020, 10:29:22 PM
This will get teams talking, but I can’t see it getting voted through. It’ll be like Turkeys voting for Xmas for most teams.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Louzie0 on October 11, 2020, 10:43:25 PM
Sorry, but where are all these clubs right now and where are Villa in the PL?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Risso on October 11, 2020, 10:53:37 PM
What utter scumbags they are. A transparent way of ensuring that the so called 'Big 6' don't have their status quo threatened, and end up with a much bigger slice of an already enormous pie so that they can compete with Europe's elite every year.  The fact that they've done it on the back of a global pandemic on the pretext of helping the Football League teams is truly disgraceful. Cûnts, the lot of them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 11, 2020, 11:29:37 PM
Reading through this whole thing there are a handful of good ideas, but the vast majority is exactly what you'd expect from a plan backed by ManU and Liverpool. So much of it is about ensuring they make the most money, get the best deals, have access to the most young talent and generally get to do what the fuck they like and the rest of the clubs should just be happy with the scraps they let fall.

Ignoring almost all of it though there's 1 line which is clearly the most important bit of the whole thing:

"Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can veto the Premier League board’s approval of a proposed new owner."

Whoever decided to include that is a complete and utter c**t and anyone who votes in favour of these proposals whilst that line remains is a complete and utter c**t.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: charlatan on October 11, 2020, 11:36:21 PM
What utter scumbags they are. A transparent way of ensuring that the so called 'Big 6' don't have their status quo threatened, and end up with a much bigger slice of an already enormous pie so that they can compete with Europe's elite every year.  The fact that they've done it on the back of a global pandemic on the pretext of helping the Football League teams is truly disgraceful. Cûnts, the lot of them.

Even the goverment has rumbled them.

A spokesperson for the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport said: ‘We are surprised and disappointed that at a time of crisis, when we have urged the top tiers of professional football to come together and finalise a deal to help lower-league clubs, there appear to be backroom deals being cooked up that would create a closed shop at the very top of the game.

‘Sustainability, integrity and fair competition are absolutely paramount and anything that may undermine them is deeply troubling.

‘Fans must be at the front of all our minds, and this shows why our fan-led review of football governance will be so critical.’


Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: KevinGage on October 11, 2020, 11:37:15 PM
In football as in life never trust a Red!

Yeah.  And Bolsonaro and that orange chimp in the white house are just grand.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 11, 2020, 11:42:54 PM
I think it's a no from Martin as well.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8829033/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Liverpool-Man-Uniteds-Project-Big-Picture-disgusting-Big-Six-power-grab.html
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 11, 2020, 11:43:10 PM
I'm seeing people on the web referring to these clubs as "The Big Nine"(!)...West Ham, Southampton... If the "Big Six" grouping was a load of contrived old bollocks this "Big Nine" concept is beyond ludicrous.   
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 11, 2020, 11:45:28 PM
In football as in life never trust a Red!

Yeah.  And Bolsonaro and that orange chimp in the white house are just grand.

Good to get confirmation that they've recovered from Covid.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: KevinGage on October 11, 2020, 11:53:36 PM
It's an odd parallel universe if Southampton are seen as kingmakers in any way shape or form.

I'd be quite happy to see the big 4/ 6 bail and just play each other week after week in perpetuity. They can call it Super Six Sunday and fill up any gaps in the fixture window with 2/3 hour motivation videos from Jim shouty shouty White and that pair of twats spending hours talking about transfers that never materialise.

Gorge on the initial international TV funding until even the Chinese market and the plastics in Ireland and Scandinavia are thoroughly sick of the product.

The current format works because the smallest team in the league can realistically give Yanited or whoever a nosebleed. 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: tomd2103 on October 12, 2020, 12:34:18 AM
{alt}
This will get teams talking, but I can’t see it getting voted through. It’ll be like Turkeys voting for Xmas for most teams.

Would they still need 14 to initially vote it through? 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 12, 2020, 01:02:30 AM
Good response by Martin Samuel, spot on about Parry in the past and now.  The man is a money obsessed scumbag - wasn't he the proponent of the 39th game nonsense?   As if so-called FFP, CL money and skewed TV money doesn't give the bigger clubs a massive edge anyway.  It sucks arse but is isn't the first dodgy scheme to suck arse and some of them have come to pass.   
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ben.H on October 12, 2020, 05:56:05 AM
It's an odd parallel universe if Southampton are seen as kingmakers in any way shape or form.
They wouldn't be though: if a two thirds majority of the nine is all that's required to make major changes then it has no effect who the 'other three' are or how they are selected, the 'big six' have all the power.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2020, 06:48:02 AM
{alt}
This will get teams talking, but I can’t see it getting voted through. It’ll be like Turkeys voting for Xmas for most teams.

Would they still need 14 to initially vote it through?
I thinks it’s 13 but yes any major change to the rules of Governance require 2/3rd majority.
What could happen is the rich and powerful threaten to leave the PL .
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2020, 07:05:48 AM
What utter scumbags they are. A transparent way of ensuring that the so called 'Big 6' don't have their status quo threatened, and end up with a much bigger slice of an already enormous pie so that they can compete with Europe's elite every year.  The fact that they've done it on the back of a global pandemic on the pretext of helping the Football League teams is truly disgraceful. Cûnts, the lot of them.

I think that sums it up nicely.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ads on October 12, 2020, 07:27:29 AM
Spurs, who've not won the league in 60 years, whose fame appears to derive from a player with a fantastic name scoring a fancy goal in an FA Cup final replay 40 years ago, a "Big 6". Trolololol.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: alanclare on October 12, 2020, 07:29:26 AM
{alt}
This will get teams talking, but I can’t see it getting voted through. It’ll be like Turkeys voting for Xmas for most teams.

Would they still need 14 to initially vote it through?
I thinks it’s 13 but yes any major change to the rules of Governance require 2/3rd majority.
What could happen is the rich and powerful threaten to leave the PL .

Would that not be a good thing?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: frank black on October 12, 2020, 07:35:15 AM
{alt}
This will get teams talking, but I can’t see it getting voted through. It’ll be like Turkeys voting for Xmas for most teams.

Would they still need 14 to initially vote it through?
I thinks it’s 13 but yes any major change to the rules of Governance require 2/3rd majority.
What could happen is the rich and powerful threaten to leave the PL .

Would that not be a good thing?

I don’t think it would be, as we would effectively be in Div 2 commanding less coverage and TV money. Whilst they attempt to form a European super league.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: steamer on October 12, 2020, 07:43:42 AM
So donate 25% of revenue to the EFL For ever or once ?
Reduce the clups by 10%, stop parachute payments, I am sure the sums only benufit one party.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 12, 2020, 07:53:00 AM
I'd assume this Premier League Summer Tournament is some kind of overseas Mickey Mouse cup to gather money from Asia/USA/etc.

Anyway, i have a proposal. Why don't we split the Premier League in to 2 divisions - a "special league" with 2 teams in, and the "first division" with everyone else. The first division can rejoin the football league to bring it back up to 4 divisions where the TV money's shared around better. The Special League can then go and permanently tour Asia with the "39th game" in their home city (the first 34/38 games will be just them playing eachother).

They'll be released from their need to play in the League Cup & Charity Shield, but will be more than welcome to compete in the FA Cup from the first preliminary round onwards to give them the summer football they crave.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 12, 2020, 08:04:08 AM
Spurs, who've not won the league in 60 years, whose fame appears to derive from a player with a fantastic name scoring a fancy goal in an FA Cup final replay 40 years ago, a "Big 6". Trolololol.

I've said before, they're the footballing equivalent of someone that gets by on their looks.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Mister E on October 12, 2020, 08:23:34 AM
...Ignoring almost all of it though there's 1 line which is clearly the most important bit of the whole thing:
"Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can veto the Premier League board’s approval of a proposed new owner."
...
There's the rub: rich owners buying into Villa, Jawdies and others will be refused entry to the clique if this goes ahead. Drawbridge #2 (after FFP).

My 'take'on this is that if it were to happen we 'd see a breakaway league created above the current Championship run by the EFL and 'normal service' would be resumed without the scumbag clubs.
Also, I think OMVF has it right about having more tiers and re-organising the lower leagues back into regional leagues.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Mister E on October 12, 2020, 08:33:11 AM
The other thing that strikes me about the current 'top six' is the flagrant pooling of players ... not for any other reason than simply to corral talent. Upstarts Chelsea have how many players on loan? - was it 37 or 38? Citeh can afford to effectively give away Sancho (a player supposedly worth €108m). Hudson-O - who has barely played was valued at £70m for the purposes of transfer? Tottingem buy Sessegnon and don't play him, before finally loaning him out to Hoffenheim.
How - in any way - does this support and grow the game?

The top-flight game has become a parody, rotten through to the core.

And - yes - I'm old.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Somniloquism on October 12, 2020, 08:34:21 AM
Liverpool come up with it and Rick Parry of the EFL jumps on it as "brilliant" straight away. Co-inky dinks?

I wonder if us and others stopping the squads of 30 being able to play 18 of them in one match was the last straw.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Bad English on October 12, 2020, 08:39:51 AM
Quote
There is no mention of Aston Villa and [The Barcodes], both of whom have featured in more Premier League campaigns than Manchester [Citeh].
Oh, I wonder why that is!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ozzjim on October 12, 2020, 08:45:20 AM
Spurs, who've not won the league in 60 years, whose fame appears to derive from a player with a fantastic name scoring a fancy goal in an FA Cup final replay 40 years ago, a "Big 6". Trolololol.

I've said before, they're the footballing equivalent of someone that gets by on their looks.

Shout about an overpriced stadium that's not even got room to take a corner properly... Check

Pedal the press to give you huge air time for no reason... Check

Appoint a manager that will keep the stories coming at all times.... Check

Spurs do everything they can to pretend to be massive. Levy is a clever dude.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: brian green on October 12, 2020, 08:58:21 AM
Run a level of debt that would destroy a small country    Check.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: mr underhill on October 12, 2020, 09:05:03 AM
this is nothing more than a power grab - creating a hegemony that cannot be challenged. The majority must resist.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Baldy on October 12, 2020, 09:07:32 AM
'A gift to the EFL wrapped up in a trojan horse'.

Despicable.

Thankfully, those outside the so called top six can see it for what it is. I hope the trojan horse sh*ts on them.

It is the rise of Midlands football (Leicester, Wolves, Villa) that has threatened the big boys domination and brought about this desperate plan.

Just give the EFL the 250 million, no strings attached.  >:(   
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: brian green on October 12, 2020, 09:09:26 AM
It is crystal clear that Formula 1 is being used as the template for football by the "top" clubs and the television companies.  Get all the Premiership into one stretch Jumbo and play all over the world.  Maximise exposure.  Sell beer. Sell cars. Sell Viagra.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: brian green on October 12, 2020, 09:11:46 AM
And you can see what is happening to F1.  Mercedes racing against itself beckons.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: mr underhill on October 12, 2020, 09:12:04 AM
Ha! advertising signs than con you into thinking you're the one that's gonna win what's never been won, meantime life outside goes on all around you.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 12, 2020, 09:13:15 AM
It has to be stopped.  Otherwise our own owners might start thinking ‘f this, what’s the point.’
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 12, 2020, 09:16:50 AM
Parry on TV this morning,  asked directly if he really believed the mega rich and powerful owners of Liverpool and ManYew genuinely had the best interests of the whole of British Football at heart with these proposals, answered "absolutely".   The bare-faced fucking liar.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2020, 09:18:24 AM
Reading through this whole thing there are a handful of good ideas, but the vast majority is exactly what you'd expect from a plan backed by ManU and Liverpool. So much of it is about ensuring they make the most money, get the best deals, have access to the most young talent and generally get to do what the fuck they like and the rest of the clubs should just be happy with the scraps they let fall.

Ignoring almost all of it though there's 1 line which is clearly the most important bit of the whole thing:

"Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can veto the Premier League board’s approval of a proposed new owner."

Whoever decided to include that is a complete and utter c**t and anyone who votes in favour of these proposals whilst that line remains is a complete and utter c**t.

Yes, including some good ideas to try and disguise your true much less noble intentions is shithouse behaviour 1.0.  I don't have a problem with a slightly smaller Premier League or giving more money to lower league clubs.  But what on earth is the justification for the 9 club premium shareholder thing?  There is none, other than the "Big 6" bribing some smaller clubs to be on their side as they try to subvert the league and make it all about them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 12, 2020, 09:20:43 AM
The three additional clubs thing is like the Americans invading somewhere under the guise of NATO or a "Coalition" when everyone knows it's all about them and their quest for World domination.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 12, 2020, 09:21:25 AM
Who is backing it?

Liverpool and Manchester United have created the plan. No other clubs are yet on the record as supporting it.

"This is two of our great clubs showing leadership and exercising responsibility," said Parry. "The message from Liverpool and Manchester United is that they do genuinely care about the pyramid.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2020, 09:31:43 AM
Liverpool andManure have now shown their hands, a super league is on the way. It was, after all only a matter of time. I don’t think this proposal will go through but once you have the elite clubs getting together with the TV money then ultimately something will give.!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2020, 09:34:08 AM
They care so much that they want to control it. Not empower it, no, nobody else, apart from those who have the most money, have the ability to think for themselves.

Perhaps Liverpool are Jacob Rees Mogg and ManUtd are Boris Johnson....
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 12, 2020, 09:38:06 AM
Well Rick Parry is Donald Trump if he believes that nonsense.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: chrisw1 on October 12, 2020, 09:39:05 AM
I think it's a no from Martin as well.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8829033/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Liverpool-Man-Uniteds-Project-Big-Picture-disgusting-Big-Six-power-grab.html

That's a fantastic article and every football fan should read it (even if it does mean clicking a Daily Mail link)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 09:44:21 AM
I wonder whether last weeks pastings for Poo and Manure helped to hurry things along.

The Hegemony is threatened, n'est pas?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 12, 2020, 09:45:18 AM
Can I just say Rick Parry is a ******.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: chrisw1 on October 12, 2020, 09:46:46 AM
Future prize money based on a 3 season average, just so they can keep their feet on the necks of any upstarts who have a good season.

It's great that the want to give the EFL some money.  Why dont they split this based on average revenue over the last 3 seasons?  Surely that is fair?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on October 12, 2020, 09:49:55 AM
They care so much that they want to control it. Not empower it, no, nobody else, apart from those who have the most money, have the ability to think for themselves.

Perhaps Liverpool are Jacob Rees Mogg and ManUtd are Boris Johnson....

Yep, considering Liverpool fans (the scouse ones anyway) like to see themselves as Tory-hating socialists it’s ironic that their club regularly behave like proper Tories.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 12, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
The three additional clubs thing is like the Americans invading somewhere under the guise of NATO or a "Coalition" when everyone knows it's all about them and their quest for World domination.
It's even worse. It represents the kind of treachery and deceitfulness that medieval lords would have been proud of. A fucking awful idea.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on October 12, 2020, 10:07:52 AM
Replace "big 6" with "sky 6" and then you have the initial source of the problems within modern football. That's without even mentioning var (another tool to keep the sky 6 that one step ahead).
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2020, 10:09:21 AM
I  do wonder if they revel in being hated. Just when you think you couldn't hate them any more they come out with this shite. I bet even their own fans think it's shit. Except the glory hunters of course. So not many then. Oh well.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 10:12:57 AM
All you need to know about this 'plan' is that it was devised by Fenway Sports and the Glaziers.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2020, 10:18:04 AM
Be interesting to see how many of the 6 stick with it if it gets kicked out, they will have anticipated this happening.
What is important is that the other clubs get together pretty quickly and form a negotiating block.
'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and Manure know that they attract more viewers around the world than all the other clubs put together. Their problem is finding teams to play against whilst exploiting this phenomenon.
This is just the beginning.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: fbriai on October 12, 2020, 10:18:48 AM
I think it's a no from Martin as well.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8829033/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Liverpool-Man-Uniteds-Project-Big-Picture-disgusting-Big-Six-power-grab.html

That's a fantastic article and every football fan should read it (even if it does mean clicking a Daily Mail link)

Completely agree. Martin Samuel has for a long time been superb at cutting through to the essence of a football story. Quite brilliant.

Pretty much everything has been said on this now. It's just an absolute disgrace from start to finish.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
Yes the article is spot on. Well done Martin Samuel.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 12, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
Under this new proposal our new owners would have almost certainly have been rejected by the new voting system.  Despite the fact they were saving us from going out of business.  That’s how bad this proposal is.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 12, 2020, 10:42:56 AM
Can I just say Rick Parry is a ******.

Funnily enough, I heard him on the radio this morning and had exactly the same thought.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Holte132 on October 12, 2020, 10:43:51 AM
So Manchester Utd and Liverpool want to reduce the number of clubs in the PL by 2 - seems there is one obvious solution!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on October 12, 2020, 10:46:25 AM
Simon Jordan on Talksport tearing Rick Parry a new one at the moment!  :D
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 10:54:25 AM
Not at all surprised if 'Agent' Parry was not inserted into the EFL job with just this in mind.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: LukeJames on October 12, 2020, 11:12:44 AM
The 'big 6' get to decide who owns the other clubs.

Fucking hell 😂😂

And these proposals come out a week after Man Utd and Liverpool get annihilated.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: mr underhill on October 12, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
what am I missing - we have had more seasons in the  PL than Southampton surely?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Yeltzer on October 12, 2020, 11:22:03 AM
what am I missing - we have had more seasons in the  PL than Southampton surely?

I think they mean longest serving since last promoted to the league
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: wolfman999 on October 12, 2020, 11:41:41 AM
what am I missing - we have had more seasons in the  PL than Southampton surely?

They rigged it by saying continuous members of the Premier league otherwise we and I believe others actually have more years of membership than Citeh and that would never do.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 12, 2020, 11:51:07 AM
I don't get why we're so hung up on not being part of the three stooges (patsies) to the "big six".
Are we saying we'd be in favour of this power grab if they deemed us one of the bigger boys too?

This whole exercise is precisely because we're standing up to the bigger kids, and about to get back our lunch money.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: robleflaneur on October 12, 2020, 11:54:06 AM
Who gets special status outside the top 6 is meaningless ,though Leicester who won the league recently and finished 5th have the strongest case.
David Conn in the Guardian points out that reducing the Prem by 2 clubs and a bigger TV share for the EFL will reduce the revenue for most PL clubs but the Champions League format will be extended and the revenues for the top clubs will increase.
The consequence will be that the gap between the top 4/6 and the rest will increase.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 12, 2020, 12:10:28 PM
Who gets special status outside the top 6 is meaningless ,though Leicester who won the league recently and finished 5th have the strongest case.
David Conn in the Guardian points out that reducing the Prem by 2 clubs and a bigger TV share for the EFL will reduce the revenue for most PL clubs but the Champions League format will be extended and the revenues for the top clubs will increase.
The consequence will be that the gap between the top 4/6 and the rest will increase.
Precisely. That's the only point the Big 6 are playing for; all the rest of their 'case' is meaningless guff.

What is the current state of the European Premier league discussions, please? Is this latest set of bollocks  being pushed in England now because they still can't work out the distribution of spoils for the ESL? At least 4 of the Big 6 would immediately go into that league leaving the rest of us to continue to fight for a national league title. My reading of it a few years ago was that if the ESL were created the financial stability of the remaining Premier and EFL teams would be better because the wage pressure would not be so great and a fairer distribution of tv money could be agreed without the monstrous 4 or 6 being involved.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: p_ad on October 12, 2020, 12:32:57 PM
Spurs really ! That really is all you need to know how shite this idea is
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: exigo on October 12, 2020, 12:35:34 PM
So Man U, sick of getting dicked every week in the Premier League, seem to be playing a hand that will see them joining a European league where they will get dicked even more.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: malckennedy on October 12, 2020, 12:46:49 PM
What are the chances of them getting their way on this? I know we shouldn’t be complacent but surely their chances are remote because at least 11 and probably 14 of the clubs who are disadvantaged by it will not support it?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Havencheese on October 12, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
If I wasn’t so outraged, I would think of this as utterly hilarious, sure it’s intimidating but ultimately it’s just so desperate and flimsy. Like making jam from pig shit and bottling it for a premium. You can bet there will be further suggestions but these wankers drinking their own bathwater must be so drunk off their hubris to think this will fly and that the rest of the world will just lie down and won’t see it for what it really is.

Some of these snakes in suits are just exposing themselves as the sociopaths they really are. Is it a bit rich for me to suggest that Parry be stripped to his underwear, tarred and feathered, placed in a cannon and fired into the sun?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 12, 2020, 12:53:50 PM
What are the chances of them getting their way on this? I know we shouldn’t be complacent but surely their chances are remote because at least 11 and probably 14 of the clubs who are disadvantaged by it will not support it?

You'd have thought so, wouldn't you?

I can't see Wes and Nassef being thrilled about not being included ...
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2020, 12:56:09 PM
What are the chances of them getting their way on this? I know we shouldn’t be complacent but surely their chances are remote because at least 11 and probably 14 of the clubs who are disadvantaged by it will not support it?

I imagine they'll have made their support for any financial assistance package to the EFL contingent on support for this in return, so that if small clubs start going bust, they can say that they wanted to help but their kind offers of assistance were rejected.  If was Edens and Sawiris I'd be starting to get the other clubs not mentioned as being part of the new brigade on side.  Our owners have got to be the richest outside of the 'Big 6' haven't they?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: exigo on October 12, 2020, 01:00:44 PM
West Ham calling it out for what it is.
BBC linky. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54505270)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: darren woolley on October 12, 2020, 01:07:43 PM
I really don't like the idea of this if it happens.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2020, 01:11:14 PM
I think this idea is going to fail miserably and hopefully all the other clubs will remember what those 2 shithawk clubs tried to do.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 12, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
I think it's a no from Martin as well.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8829033/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Liverpool-Man-Uniteds-Project-Big-Picture-disgusting-Big-Six-power-grab.html

That's a fantastic article and every football fan should read it (even if it does mean clicking a Daily Mail link)
Who'd have thunk the Mail would be going 'red' whilst the Graun are favouring this stitch up?

FFP is inherently unfair. Talked about this with an Evertonian mate a while back, but how's someone like Blackpool manage to ever survive in the PL when their income is maybe 5% of any of the Sky 6s, and significantly less that even the 17th placed club from the previous season.

This is just going to make that same problem far worse. Averaging the money over 3 seasons' performance ties more of it to the more established clubs at the expense of the likes of Leicester or Wolves. They've made terrific strides in recent years, partially because they're able to build on their own success.

It puts all the power in the hands of clubs that have 'special status', basically the football equivalent of the landed gentry. It further cements their position. It's really not good at all for Championship clubs ... or even ones like ourselves, Newcastle, or Leeds who might be justified in feeling that we should be part of 'the establishment'.

We need to be fighting tooth & nail against this. There should be at least 10 other clubs who will be stitched up and so on our side, and arguably West Ham & Southampton should realise that their Premier League status isn't so secure for them to feel comfortable about it either.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: malckennedy on October 12, 2020, 01:19:45 PM
What are the chances of them getting their way on this? I know we shouldn’t be complacent but surely their chances are remote because at least 11 and probably 14 of the clubs who are disadvantaged by it will not support it?

I imagine they'll have made their support for any financial assistance package to the EFL contingent on support for this in return, so that if small clubs start going bust, they can say that they wanted to help but their kind offers of assistance were rejected.  If was Edens and Sawiris I'd be starting to get the other clubs not mentioned as being part of the new brigade on side.  Our owners have got to be the richest outside of the 'Big 6' haven't they?

It shouldn’t be too difficult to uncouple the proposals to help lower tiers in the pyramid from the naked power grab proposals, should it? The two really are quite separate issues which have been deliberately combined - for the reasons you suggest.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 12, 2020, 01:23:47 PM
This bit is particularly incredulous.

It is not known what will happen if the plan - which has drawn criticism from supporters' groups, the government and the Premier League executive - is rejected.

The Premier League said "individual proposals" in the plan "could have a damaging impact on the whole game", and that it would continue its own work on a "resolution to the requirement for Covid-19 rescue funding" for the EFL.

However, one theory - which EFL chairman Rick Parry refused to dismiss when questioned specifically about it twice on Sunday - is that the six clubs have been told they could play within the Football League if their Premier League status was threatened.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Mister E on October 12, 2020, 01:41:21 PM
Who gets special status outside the top 6 is meaningless ,though Leicester who won the league recently and finished 5th have the strongest case.
David Conn in the Guardian points out that reducing the Prem by 2 clubs and a bigger TV share for the EFL will reduce the revenue for most PL clubs but the Champions League format will be extended and the revenues for the top clubs will increase.
The consequence will be that the gap between the top 4/6 and the rest will increase.
And - without the charity shield and other tournament distractions, there'll be more time for one-off lucrative friendly games and things like the World Club Competition that Liverpool competed in, getting a sick-note from the EPL to avoid being fined for not fielding a stronger team in the 'irrelevant' League Cup.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2020, 01:42:51 PM

This bit is particularly incredulous.


It is not known what will happen if the plan - which has drawn criticism from supporters' groups, the government and the Premier League executive - is rejected.


The Premier League said "individual proposals" in the plan "could have a damaging impact on the whole game", and that it would continue its own work on a "resolution to the requirement for Covid-19 rescue funding" for the EFL.


However, one theory - which EFL chairman Rick Parry refused to dismiss when questioned specifically about it twice on Sunday - is that the six clubs have been told they could play within the Football League if their Premier League status was threatened.


What does that bit mean, I've no idea?  Does it mean if they're told to get to fuck by all the other PL clubs and kicked out of the PL altogether?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Mister E on October 12, 2020, 01:44:57 PM
I imagine they'll have made their support for any financial assistance package to the EFL contingent on support for this in return, so that if small clubs start going bust, they can say that they wanted to help but their kind offers of assistance were rejected...
that's exactly the agenda.
I have no doubt they do not expect to get their proposals through: this is a pre-emptive excuse in the current discussions about trickling money down the pyramid
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 01:49:02 PM
Solution...... lose the 'Big Six'.

Fuck 'em.

Invite the top Scottish Clubs to replace them.


Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2020, 01:50:05 PM
I'll bet anything they want to scrap the Charity Shield so as they can play the 'Premier League summer tournament' instead. Scrap 1 game in London that benefits a load of charities around the country for a bunch of games in Asia etc that willl benefit a few clubs. But it's all about fixture conggestion and saving the lower leagues.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2020, 01:50:36 PM

Invite the top Scottish Clubs to replace them.

Fuck that even more.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 12, 2020, 01:55:24 PM
I don't get why we're so hung up on not being part of the three stooges (patsies) to the "big six".
Are we saying we'd be in favour of this power grab if they deemed us one of the bigger boys too?

This whole exercise is precisely because we're standing up to the bigger kids, and about to get back our lunch money.

I'd be even more furious if Villa were asked to be one of the three stooges.  What kind of weak-as-piss club would even willingly sign up to that role? 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2020, 01:55:44 PM
I reckon this is the "shock" version, so that a slightly watered down but still shit version will be met with less outrage.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: robleflaneur on October 12, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
Also proposed is the scrapping of parachute payments.Relegation from the PL would have even more serious financial consequences,even allowing for increased share of TV payments for EFL clubs.Result  again would be a financial weakening of clubs in comparison to the top 6.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 12, 2020, 02:11:46 PM
I reckon this is the "shock" version, so that a slightly watered down but still shit version will be met with less outrage.
Yes I agree plus they are dangling the carrot for us, Leicester, Newcastle etc to fall in line to be given "special treatment" and join the groupies.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on October 12, 2020, 02:13:14 PM
I'll bet anything they want to scrap the Charity Shield so as they can play the 'Premier League summer tournament' instead. Scrap 1 game in London that benefits a load of charities around the country for a bunch of games in Asia etc that willl benefit a few clubs. But it's all about fixture conggestion and saving the lower leagues.

I was about to say the same. It’s one game per year so is really neither here nor there with regards to ‘fixture congestion’. However if the Sky 6 know that they have an extra free weekend in summertime, just wait for all the extra Asian trophy bollocks to be arranged.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 12, 2020, 02:13:50 PM
As an aside how are Southampton regarded ahead of us as long standing PL participants? They were out of the league for 7 seasons.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 12, 2020, 02:21:12 PM
As an aside how are Southampton regarded ahead of us as long standing PL participants? They were out of the league for 7 seasons.

They are counting it by continuous seasons, so technically we have one season in the league. Wolves have two, Southampton seven.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 12, 2020, 02:26:40 PM
It's rolling participation, so to crack the 'big' six, we'd need Everton, Southampton, West Ham, Leicester, Newcastle, Crystal Palace, Wolves, Brighton and Burnley all to suffer a relegation, along with one of ploop, manure, cit£h, chelski, the arse or spuds.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 02:33:23 PM
It's rolling participation, so to crack the 'big' six, we'd need Everton, Southampton, West Ham, Leicester, Newcastle, Crystal Palace, Wolves, Brighton and Burnley all to suffer a relegation, along with one of ploop, manure, cit£h, chelski, the arse or spuds.
Because aggregate participation would have fucked Citeh?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2020, 02:36:07 PM

This bit is particularly incredulous.


It is not known what will happen if the plan - which has drawn criticism from supporters' groups, the government and the Premier League executive - is rejected.


The Premier League said "individual proposals" in the plan "could have a damaging impact on the whole game", and that it would continue its own work on a "resolution to the requirement for Covid-19 rescue funding" for the EFL.


However, one theory - which EFL chairman Rick Parry refused to dismiss when questioned specifically about it twice on Sunday - is that the six clubs have been told they could play within the Football League if their Premier League status was threatened.


What does that bit mean, I've no idea?  Does it mean if they're told to get to fuck by all the other PL clubs and kicked out of the PL altogether?

I think it means that the '6' would resign from the Premier League and be welcomed with open arms by Parry at the EFL, that would then become the 78 and leave the remaining Premier League teams stranded on their own.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2020, 02:44:44 PM
It doesn't matter who the other 3 clubs are or what they use to determine which 3. They are just included to try and make it look better. "Look, it's not just about us 6 clubs, 3 others have the same say, see, we believe in democracy." In reality the votes of those 3 are as meaningless as the other 11 clubs.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Risso on October 12, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
Sounds a bit of a hollow threat that.  I can imagine them doing so to join a European Super League, but not to play the likes of Brentford and Rotherham.  All I'd do if they did decamp to the EFL if I was the remaining 14 Premier League teams, is laugh at them, and then invite the biggest teams in the Championship (and Scotland if they really wanted to be shithouses) to join a revamped Premier League, with no relegation or promotion for three years.  Enjoy Millwall away, arseholes.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2020, 02:47:57 PM
The money will follow those 6. Not that they'd bugger off and join the EFL, but in that hypothetical scenario all the TV money would follow them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Mister E on October 12, 2020, 02:53:15 PM
Sounds a bit of a hollow threat that.  I can imagine them doing so to join a European Super League, but not to play the likes of Brentford and Rotherham.  All I'd do if they did decamp to the EFL if I was the remaining 14 Premier League teams, is laugh at them, and then invite the biggest teams in the Championship (and Scotland if they really wanted to be shithouses) to join a revamped Premier League, with no relegation or promotion for three years.  Enjoy Millwall away, arseholes.
The way I read the comment from Parry was that it was tongue-in-cheek.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 03:20:29 PM
Telegraph:   Hostile takeover disguised as a rescue package.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 12, 2020, 03:21:52 PM
The money will follow those 6. Not that they'd bugger off and join the EFL, but in that hypothetical scenario all the TV money would follow them.

Not necessarily.  The TV companies will want to cover the league that has the best players and the best players will go to the clubs willing to pay them the most.   It's not a foregone conclusion that those six clubs will have the wealthiest owners or access to the best players in the years to come. 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2020, 03:23:12 PM
I reckon this is the "shock" version, so that a slightly watered down but still shit version will be met with less outrage.
Standard negotiation tactic. Hope it backfires on them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2020, 03:25:06 PM
The money will follow those 6. Not that they'd bugger off and join the EFL, but in that hypothetical scenario all the TV money would follow them.

Not necessarily.  The TV companies will want to cover the league that has the best players and the best players will go to the clubs willing to pay them the most.   It's not a foregone conclusion that those six clubs will have the wealthiest owners or access to the best players in the years to come.
The TV will follow the highest advertising and subscription revenue.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ben.H on October 12, 2020, 03:54:29 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/exclusive-tottenham-hotspur-eligible-125m-stadium-rebate-project/

According to the Telegraph Spurs will be able to claim back around £125 million for the costs of their new stadium and Liverpool around £30 million on their newly-built Main Stand under a clause in the “Project Big Picture” (PBP) proposals.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 12, 2020, 03:57:31 PM
The money will follow those 6. Not that they'd bugger off and join the EFL, but in that hypothetical scenario all the TV money would follow them.

Not necessarily.  The TV companies will want to cover the league that has the best players and the best players will go to the clubs willing to pay them the most.   It's not a foregone conclusion that those six clubs will have the wealthiest owners or access to the best players in the years to come.
The TV will follow the highest advertising and subscription revenue.

European qualification would have to remain with the PL though - I can't see the big 6 giving that CL income up easily.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 12, 2020, 04:02:22 PM
The EFL bailout is nothing less than a bribe to those in desperate need to sell their souls for short term security at the expense of any hope of long term success for anyone but the big 6. 

Of course the Forest Green Chairman is in favour because he wants the bailout, and the effect on the PL is irrelevant to him as they are never likely to be involved.  Ditto many other EFL clubs.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: eric woolban woolban on October 12, 2020, 04:05:54 PM
Wouldn't it be funny if one of the so called big six got it completely wrong this season and were relegated.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: aev on October 12, 2020, 04:12:13 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/exclusive-tottenham-hotspur-eligible-125m-stadium-rebate-project/

According to the Telegraph Spurs will be able to claim back around £125 million for the costs of their new stadium and Liverpool around £30 million on their newly-built Main Stand under a clause in the “Project Big Picture” (PBP) proposals.

But clubs can only reclaim rebuild costs if they meet certain criteria.

I wonder which ones would benefit?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: LeeB on October 12, 2020, 04:30:59 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/10/12/exclusive-tottenham-hotspur-eligible-125m-stadium-rebate-project/

According to the Telegraph Spurs will be able to claim back around £125 million for the costs of their new stadium and Liverpool around £30 million on their newly-built Main Stand under a clause in the “Project Big Picture” (PBP) proposals.

But clubs can only reclaim rebuild costs if they meet certain criteria.

I wonder which ones would benefit?

What would be the criteria? Being shameless, grasping bastards without a sliver of moral fibre?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: steamer on October 12, 2020, 04:59:38 PM
quite a few could step forward to meet that criteria.
Surprising that reports say the money grubbers at WHU are not in favour.
Having read some more during the day, What a pisstake, second three gulible fools into believing they are part of the big boys, the rest of us make up the numbers so that they have enough fixtures to play.
Scap the League cup and CS so they can play more exotic , money making fixtures.
Fuck them, however maybe it is thin end of the wedge style negotiating.
Throw out something that will never get accepted, but have a plan B (that was the real plan anyway) that gives you the key items you wanted.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 12, 2020, 05:04:16 PM
The money will follow those 6. Not that they'd bugger off and join the EFL, but in that hypothetical scenario all the TV money would follow them.

Not necessarily.  The TV companies will want to cover the league that has the best players and the best players will go to the clubs willing to pay them the most.   It's not a foregone conclusion that those six clubs will have the wealthiest owners or access to the best players in the years to come.
The TV will follow the highest advertising and subscription revenue.

European qualification would have to remain with the PL though - I can't see the big 6 giving that CL income up easily.
the PL broke away from the League and took the CL rights with them.
Who knows what the slippery rat Parry has been up to.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: luke:lamf on October 12, 2020, 06:58:22 PM
Surprising that reports say the money grubbers at WHU are not in favour.
I believe they've already got their free / subsidised stadium so can see why they wouldn't be keen for others to follow suit.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ad@m on October 12, 2020, 07:00:19 PM
Surprising that reports say the money grubbers at WHU are not in favour.
I believe they've already got their free / subsidised stadium so can see why they wouldn't be keen for others to follow suit.

They've also been perilously close to relegation the last few years. If they finally dropped their "special status" goes down the drain.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 07:08:32 PM
quite a few could step forward to meet that criteria.
Surprising that reports say the money grubbers at WHU are not in favour.
Having read some more during the day, What a pisstake, second three gulible fools into believing they are part of the big boys, the rest of us make up the numbers so that they have enough fixtures to play.
Scap the League cup and CS so they can play more exotic , money making fixtures.
Fuck them, however maybe it is thin end of the wedge style negotiating.
Throw out something that will never get accepted, but have a plan B (that was the real plan anyway) that gives you the key items you wanted.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 12, 2020, 07:09:36 PM
quite a few could step forward to meet that criteria.
Surprising that reports say the money grubbers at WHU are not in favour.
Having read some more during the day, What a pisstake, second three gulible fools into believing they are part of the big boys, the rest of us make up the numbers so that they have enough fixtures to play.
Scap the League cup and CS so they can play more exotic , money making fixtures.
Fuck them, however maybe it is thin end of the wedge style negotiating.
Throw out something that will never get accepted, but have a plan B (that was the real plan anyway) that gives you the key items you wanted.
Wet Spam are only renters.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: TopDeck113 on October 12, 2020, 07:26:45 PM
Martin Samuels' article is excellent - particularly as it skewers Rick Parry for exactly what he is and always has been. 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 12, 2020, 07:36:00 PM
Surprising that reports say the money grubbers at WHU are not in favour.
I believe they've already got their free / subsidised stadium so can see why they wouldn't be keen for others to follow suit.

They've also been perilously close to relegation the last few years. If they finally dropped their "special status" goes down the drain.

There should be no "special status" for any club, that will be the end of it all for me.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: TheMalandro on October 12, 2020, 07:39:25 PM
Sky top six - start your own league.

Good luck with the TV revenue.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: andyh on October 12, 2020, 08:01:38 PM
The EFL are just as grubby in all of this.
They are backing the plans based on some £250m worth of crumbs falling from the PL table.
That won’t go very far for very long.

Also, the PL wanting to cut parachute payments means that any charity they give to the EPL means all they are doing is redirecting money from parachute to hush money, plus a few million.

And how the fuck are Southampton suddenly one of the 9 clubs who can dictate the future of British football, it’s simply based on where they are rather than who they are.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Steve67 on October 12, 2020, 08:06:13 PM
Extra pre-season for the big six so they can fuck off to Thailand and the States to satisfy their shirt sponsors and other plastic fans.  Football will eat itself and I hope the inevitable split comes sooner rather than later so the likes of Liverpool and Manchester City are considered small fry by Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Boca, PSG and Flamengo etc.  Special status, my arse.  Trying to bribe the EFL with an immediate payment, trying to bribe the FA with an immediate 100 mill payment, fucking shameful.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: lovejoy on October 12, 2020, 08:15:47 PM
A lot of the plans are fairly reasonable regarding the change in fees supporting the EFL and restructuring the number of teams, lets go with that and ignore the power grab elements of voting rights. Do you think they'd go with that?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: charlatan on October 12, 2020, 09:19:23 PM
Where the fees come from is not fair. It should be a share of all revenue. Their status as Champions League participants and so on is contingent on having made their name in what is now the EFL and abandoned it, not just their Premier League status.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: SaddVillan on October 12, 2020, 09:48:32 PM
The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life.

Bill Shankly, Manager Liverpool FC.
Currently turning in his grave.


Number of seasons in the Premier League

28 – Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham, Everton
25 – Aston Villa, Newcastle
24 – West Ham
23 – Man City
21 – Southampton
18 – Blackburn
16 – Sunderland
15 – Middlesbrough
14 – Fulham, Leicester
13 – Bolton
12 – Leeds, West Brom
10 – Stoke
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: garyfouroaks on October 12, 2020, 09:51:55 PM
This is shameless opportunism on the part of Liverpool and Man United, as is the £15 PPV charge being proposed.

The EFL and Rick Parry are simply victims of their own ineptitude. Most EFL clubs will run out of money to pay the wage bill by 1st January. 2021, yet they have kept on playing as though nothing was happening.

Common sense says the EFL should have mothballed the 2020/21 season before it started until a sustainable way forwards can be agreed.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: OCD on October 12, 2020, 09:52:20 PM
I've been disgusted by this since I first read about it. It's myopic greed. No understanding the reason the Premier League is such a successful product is because of the parity between it's members. Ask clubs in Spain how it is for them with Barcelona and Real Madrid having all the power and clubs having to negotiate their individual TV deals.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: SaddVillan on October 12, 2020, 10:12:05 PM
Am I right in thinking that in the Prem, it requires a vote of 14 clubs to pass a motion?

If so, why don't the 14 non-Big6 just vote them out of the Prem - cast them adrift and see if they can get by on a diet of Chumps League and summer exhibition games.

Happy to be corrected.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Clive W on October 12, 2020, 10:20:57 PM
Am I right in thinking that in the Prem, it requires a vote of 14 clubs to pass a motion?

If so, why don't the 14 non-Big6 just vote them out of the Prem - cast them adrift and see if they can get by on a diet of Chumps League and summer exhibition games.


Happy to be corrected.

Nice thought but the FA has a golden share in the PL and can veto anything
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 12, 2020, 10:21:27 PM
How about taking into consideration how many seasons in top flight football rather than just the premiership years
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Clive W on October 12, 2020, 10:23:21 PM
How about taking into consideration how many seasons in top flight football rather than just the premiership years

But I thought football was only invented in 1993!!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
There's a weird obsession with the 'special status' considering it's a meaningless title and votes that are only there to deflect from what would be a dictatorship.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: robleflaneur on October 12, 2020, 11:05:53 PM
There's a weird obsession with the 'special status' considering it's a meaningless title and votes that are only there to deflect from what would be a dictatorship.
This is the crux of the matter and not whether Villa should have 'special status'.
The top 6 will be able to dictate terms.Let's invite Celtic and Rangers and lose 2 more clubs from the PL.Individual broadcasting deals.Extend the Champions League.Asian spin off tournaments.Anything to increase their revenue and their owners' profits and safeguard their clubs' positions .
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2020, 11:40:32 PM
And now the EFL are laying down a story about clubs going out of business imminently.

They are all a bunch of bastards.

The 6 develop a stranglehold whilst professing to save football. Greed is such an ugly, ugly thing.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 12, 2020, 11:42:45 PM
I'd be amazed if there aren't quite a few EFL clubs close to going under, doesn't mean this package should be given anything but the contempt it deserves.

Be interesting if any of the other 6 knew about it or if it was all the work of just the 2 named.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: LeeB on October 12, 2020, 11:42:54 PM
And now the EFL are laying down a story about clubs going out of business imminently.

They are all a bunch of bastards.

The 6 develop a stranglehold whilst professing to save football. Greed is such an ugly, ugly thing.

It's like real life, the aristocracy and the no hopers conspiring to fuck over the middle classes.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 12, 2020, 11:46:23 PM
We should hold our nose, call West Ham and draft an alternative set of proposals the other 14 clubs like very much.

We may as well, before most of our votes count for nothing.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ozzjim on October 13, 2020, 01:47:30 AM
You would think Purslow and Brady would be the types to put an alternative to this tripe together.

I think it might have got a bit more traction had it not been so clearly a top 6 (2) grab for all the power. The fact is been written by people that are used to sport with no jeopardy in the US is quite telling.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 13, 2020, 06:19:50 AM
This is shameless opportunism on the part of Liverpool and Man United, as is the £15 PPV charge being proposed.

The EFL and Rick Parry are simply victims of their own ineptitude. Most EFL clubs will run out of money to pay the wage bill by 1st January. 2021, yet they have kept on playing as though nothing was happening.

Common sense says the EFL should have mothballed the 2020/21 season before it started until a sustainable way forwards can be agreed.

Unless the authorities can find a way to block VPN's, people will watch these PPV games for free.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 13, 2020, 07:43:27 AM
We should hold our nose, call West Ham and draft an alternative set of proposals the other 14 clubs like very much.

We may as well, before most of our votes count for nothing.
I agree, gather with our tribute acts (West Ham, Burnley, Palace) and the clubs that owe us their existence (Everton, WBA), and the other 8 who wouldn't be playing League football if we'd not come along. Then give the Sky 6 a bloody nose. They need to be put in their place.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 13, 2020, 08:18:10 AM
If this has been worked on behind closed doors for months and is the so called 17th version of it and EFL clubs are about to go bust then it’s tough.  They should have been more inclusive with the other clubs from the start.  It might have been resolved by now if they had. 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: fbriai on October 13, 2020, 08:38:11 AM
Rick Parry over the weekend:

Quote
"It’s a model that is broken and frankly it was broken pre-COVID".

"There’s an unbridgeable gulf between the Championship and the Premier League, and there are inequalities that parachute payments create and the crazy behaviours that arise in the Championship as a result, with 107 per cent of turnover being spent on wages and £400m of owner funding required every year."

"The struggles faced by League One and League Two clubs where again there is a lot of owner funding required, they have now taken steps to behave responsibly by introducing salary caps which is a step in the right direction – so there’s a whole series of short-term and long-term issues that need to be resolved."

This from the man who was the Chief Executive who oversaw the formation of the Premier League. He's now telling us it's all gone to hell in a handcart, but we should just trust him again and it will all be great.

He and whoever's footprints are on this document should be run out of football and never be allowed back.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2020, 08:40:38 AM
We should hold our nose, call West Ham and draft an alternative set of proposals the other 14 clubs like very much.

We may as well, before most of our votes count for nothing.
I agree, gather with our tribute acts (West Ham, Burnley, Palace) and the clubs that owe us their existence (Everton, WBA), and the other 8 who wouldn't be playing League football if we'd not come along. Then give the Sky 6 a bloody nose. They need to be put in their place.
Sounds great in principle but the Sky six are the brainchild of Murdoch and his brash American chums and even though the rest could outnumber them Sky wouldn't wear it. They think they have it all carved up but they can think again. Gollum (Ian holloway) called it corruption at the highest level this morning. Love him or hate him you've got to admire the little guys balls. (Ahem)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: brian green on October 13, 2020, 09:04:53 AM
The beating heart they are trying to cut out of football is promotion and relegation. Everything else is gift wrapping on the priceless gift scoundrels like Parry want to give Fenway and the Glaziers.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ad@m on October 13, 2020, 09:11:54 AM
And now the EFL are laying down a story about clubs going out of business imminently.

They are all a bunch of bastards.

The 6 develop a stranglehold whilst professing to save football. Greed is such an ugly, ugly thing.

There is a potential route where this hopefully backfires on the Sky 6.

Let's just say that the rest of the Prem vote this down. The Sky 6 have already shown their hand that they can afford to send £250m a year to the Football League.

Now that cat is out of the bag, if they don't follow through with it, even if the league isn't handed over to them, they'll be the reason those Football League clubs might go out of existence.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: simboy on October 13, 2020, 09:19:40 AM
The irony of Sky slagging the "Big Picture" is something to behold. They're so fearful this will come in with losses of their most lucrative markets. As far as I see unless the six can bribe the FA it wont get very far, the golden share wont allow that. The TV deal next time around will be much smaller, which is the real driving force of this I suspect, Manure and the red scouse will lose massive revenue.

What does come through is that there needs to be a proper adjustment regarding the distribution of income downwards if we want the game to remain like it is currently. If the likes of Mansfield Town or Wycombe Wanderers are to stay professional and viable there needs to be some cash filtering down, be that as a hand out or an "association" with other, larger teams. Otherwise we will be left with a parred down top two divisions as professional.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: aev on October 13, 2020, 09:25:43 AM
The 250m suggested split between the 20 PL clubs is nothing - the price of an average PL player. The power grab is disgraceful, and there is so much self interest included it is staggering.

I listened to Rick Parry yesterday and he came across as aggressive and unrepentant.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 13, 2020, 09:31:07 AM
The beating heart they are trying to cut out of football is promotion and relegation. Everything else is gift wrapping on the priceless gift scoundrels like Parry want to give Fenway and the Glaziers.

I agree, removing parachute payments is particularly cynical. There is no way promoted clubs would spend £100 million when they came up; without that safety net.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 13, 2020, 09:58:38 AM
The beating heart they are trying to cut out of football is promotion and relegation. Everything else is gift wrapping on the priceless gift scoundrels like Parry want to give Fenway and the Glaziers.

I agree, removing parachute payments is particularly cynical. There is no way promoted clubs would spend £100 million when they came up; without that safety net.

yep, it pretty much locks teams in as yo-yo clubs, too wealthy to struggle in the championship, too poor to survive in the premier league.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 13, 2020, 09:59:20 AM
Transfer fees have become unsustainable and obscene.

A better system would see a sizeable percentage of the fee going direct to the EFL and the lower leagues around the world..
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 13, 2020, 10:08:55 AM
The beating heart they are trying to cut out of football is promotion and relegation. Everything else is gift wrapping on the priceless gift scoundrels like Parry want to give Fenway and the Glaziers.

Exactly. Perfectly expressed.

Notice that it's the American owners of these two teams who wish to turn this sport from the grassroots, historic and joined-up pyramid it is (competitive, complex, open to many, the jewel of the sporting world)   into a carbon copy of the static, tame, simplistic, franchise-structured, pull-the-ladder-up-behind-us, 'we wealthy owners buy a feeder-team network to kill any potential competition' and it's all about the tv rights sport that baseball, American football, American basketball etc have become.

Sky may think they want to back the Slimy 6 because their American owners understand the model but it will very quickly kill the product they already have to distribute worldwide. It's the unpredictability the world loves; it's Manure AND the scousers being caned on the same weekend. That's what the world watches the Premier Leagure for. It's never over until the crap referee grabs centre-stage.

I hope Wes and Nassef understand that and are putting the alternative together right now. Because we could use this to maintain the facet of this sport which pulls everyone in; unpredictability.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 13, 2020, 10:48:39 AM
We should hold our nose, call West Ham and draft an alternative set of proposals the other 14 clubs like very much.

We may as well, before most of our votes count for nothing.
I agree, gather with our tribute acts (West Ham, Burnley, Palace) and the clubs that owe us their existence (Everton, WBA), and the other 8 who wouldn't be playing League football if we'd not come along. Then give the Sky 6 a bloody nose. They need to be put in their place.
Sounds great in principle but the Sky six are the brainchild of Murdoch and his brash American chums and even though the rest could outnumber them Sky wouldn't wear it. They think they have it all carved up but they can think again. Gollum (Ian holloway) called it corruption at the highest level this morning. Love him or hate him you've got to admire the little guys balls. (Ahem)
Surely we just need something that BT/Amazon/Dazn will pay good money for, so it doesn't matter what Sky thinks?

If I were Villa, I'd possibly start asking about how the Old Firm feel about decamping to the English league.  No firm offer, no "this is definitely going to happen" ... just so we've got enough of a threat that, if someone leaves, we can replace them with a high profile team just like *that*.  Not that I particularly want the ugly sisters involved, but undeniably they're the biggest two clubs outside the league structure & would most likely make up a good proportion of the financial shortfall.

Then turn the screw.  TV money & prize money from any competition you qualify for from the league (Champions League, Europa League, World Club Cup, ..) goes in the Premier League pot.  All of it.  Shared out by positional placing.  Oh, and that fourth Champions League spot?  That's a playoff now, places 4-7.  Highest placed non-qualifier(s) go in to the Europa League.  Play that in Asia or wherever if you're that bothered about a summer Premier League tournament.

£250m goes to the EFL and £100m to the FA, no strings attached.  Parachute payments stay, as does the current voting structure.

I reckon that'd be enough of an offer for TV companies etc, and be popular enough amongst 'the 14' that the Sky 6 proposal might struggle.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2020, 10:54:41 AM
How about a power grab of our own led by our extremely wealthy owners. No not a financial power grab but a moral one. If our guys could come up with a viable alternative that helps the lower leagues and rips the power away from the Sky Six we would be seen as the club who gave the original Football league structure to the to the country and the world and as the club who saved football for the country and the world. A pipe dream of course but wouldn't it be just fantastic?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Risso on October 13, 2020, 10:56:01 AM
A slightly paranoid thought occurred to me, in that I wonder if the reason they've chosen the likes of Southampton to be part of the 9, is that they think/hope our owners might back the plans anyway? An American co-owner and an Egyptian with lots of media contacts, maybe they think the ability to cut our own deals might appeal?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 13, 2020, 10:58:22 AM
A slightly paranoid thought occurred to me, in that I wonder if the reason they've chosen the likes of Southampton to be part of the 9, is that they think/hope our owners might back the plans anyway? An American co-owner and an Egyptian with lots of media contacts, maybe they think the ability to cut our own deals might appeal?
I really hope not. We should stay well away from these greedy grubby proposals. Southampton can go fuck themselves.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 13, 2020, 11:13:20 AM
The money that Parry talks about handing out does not exist, it’s based on projections.

What Parryis cooking up is nothing like the American sports model, it is no where near as democratic. This is a power grab to concentrate control into the hands of a few.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Baldy on October 13, 2020, 11:33:24 AM
All footballers should pay their own agents fees for transfers. Afterall, the agent is acting on the players instruction!!

A percentage of the savings made by 'all' clubs on agents fees should be donated to a central fund designed to subsidise clubs in financial need.

Players can afford it, might improve loyalty, likely to reduce agents fees and in the process finance struggling clubs.

The big six can **** off.  :)



 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 13, 2020, 12:32:31 PM
fees, wages, agent fees should all be looked into but any changes to that need to be enforced by FIFA.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 13, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Surely we just need something that BT/Amazon/Dazn will pay good money for, so it doesn't matter what Sky thinks?

Yep; I can see a consortium of BT, Amazon/Netflix, ANO being a very credible alternative to selling the TV rights to Sky. And why wouldn't that group be interested in acquiring them? Just make it a condition that all your other conditions are met (funneling money to lower leagues regularly, stuff the unequal voting rights provisions back up ManUre/Scouse arses etc) and more clubs than just those 6 will vote for it. Their owners surely cannot be stupid enough to allow the Scumbag 6 to control the whole sport in this country, can they?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 13, 2020, 01:35:31 PM
The 'Project' is anti-competitive and, if an attempt is made to to force it through, it will end up in the Courts for months, if not years.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: darren woolley on October 13, 2020, 01:51:53 PM
I don't want any change this smells trouble.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: rob_bridge on October 13, 2020, 01:54:24 PM
The 'Project' is anti-competitive and, if an attempt is made to to force it through, it will end up in the Courts for months, if not years.

This is key

If Elon Musk wants to buy Newcastle - and he could just about buy the Big 6 owners - then there is no way they will agree to it. They wouldn't have let our dual owners buy Villa.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: old man villa fan on October 13, 2020, 01:54:57 PM
There should be a levy on transfers and the money from this is fed in to the lower leagues.  Also, the teams that qualify for the Champions League or later stages of the Europa League should have to pay a fee for each match as they have qualified through the Premier League.  Again, this money could be fed in to the lower leagues.

We need to even up football again, rather than extend the imbalance.

Too many teams are promoted and relegated and this is causing financial problems.  There needs to be more stability.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: garyellis on October 13, 2020, 02:53:46 PM
Mark Palios was interviewed by the BBC where he stated he saw this as no more than a power grab by the big six. He did say things need to change but not by implementing this proposal.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: JimmyV on October 13, 2020, 03:15:55 PM
As others have alluded to, this is a red herring. A dead cat thrown on the table, a tactic often used in political strategy. I have no doubt it has been deliberately leaked despite the public protestions of Parry the willing stooge. Look how available he was to conduct media interviews with all and sundry immediately. Uncanny. They know there is not a chance in hell this would get voted through in its leaked form. What it has achieved is to open the discussion, shift the narrative and give a starting point for negotations with the aim of settling on a proposal a step or two back from the current, somewhat nuclear opening gambit. This is just a continuation of English club football being tenderised and manipulated further by financial aims. This is now big business after all, the prime concern being profit.

In terms of a work around, a Netflix style subscription service would give an opportunity for the equitable sharing of revenues to all, fuck sky/BT/Amazon etc - go straight to market. Would be worth billions and piss all over any current TV deal in terms of club revenues.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: OCD on October 13, 2020, 03:24:28 PM
I don't think putting something on the table that leads to the response of 'fuck off' can be seen as opening discussions.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: rob_bridge on October 13, 2020, 03:26:02 PM
As others have alluded to, this is a red herring. A dead cat thrown on the table, a tactic often used in political strategy. I have no doubt it has been deliberately leaked despite the public protestions of Parry the willing stooge. Look how available he was to conduct media interviews with all and sundry immediately. Uncanny. They know there is not a chance in hell this would get voted through in its leaked form. What it has achieved is to open the discussion, shift the narrative and give a starting point for negotations with the aim of settling on a proposal a step or two back from the current, somewhat nuclear opening gambit. This is just a continuation of English club football being tenderised and manipulated further by financial aims. This is now big business after all, the prime concern being profit.

In terms of a work around, a Netflix style subscription service would give an opportunity for the equitable sharing of revenues to all, fuck sky/BT/Amazon etc - go straight to market. Would be worth billions and piss all over any current TV deal in terms of club revenues.

Yeah you may be right whereby the overseas rights are sold on a club by club basis which is why Liverpool and ManU are proposing it and not say Southampton and Burnley
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Damo70 on October 13, 2020, 03:36:36 PM
They would be mad to scrap relegation but I reckon they will push for two up two down between the Premier League and the Championship. But how many final day title dramas like Liverpool Arsenal in 1989 or Manure Citeh in 2012 occur? Whereas 'Survival Sunday' on the last day of the Premier League has become unmissable pretty much every year.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: KevinGage on October 13, 2020, 03:39:44 PM
Ourselves, Leicester and Arsenal are the 'undecided's' according to the Daily Mail (not providing a link).

What's to decide really.  It's utter cack.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 13, 2020, 03:40:30 PM
Rick Parry over the weekend:

Quote
"It’s a model that is broken and frankly it was broken pre-COVID".

"There’s an unbridgeable gulf between the Championship and the Premier League, and there are inequalities that parachute payments create and the crazy behaviours that arise in the Championship as a result, with 107 per cent of turnover being spent on wages and £400m of owner funding required every year."

"The struggles faced by League One and League Two clubs where again there is a lot of owner funding required, they have now taken steps to behave responsibly by introducing salary caps which is a step in the right direction – so there’s a whole series of short-term and long-term issues that need to be resolved."

This from the man who was the Chief Executive who oversaw the formation of the Premier League. He's now telling us it's all gone to hell in a handcart, but we should just trust him again and it will all be great.

He and whoever's footprints are on this document should be run out of football and never be allowed back.


The sheer shameless neck of Parry is staggering.  The system is broken precisely because he and his ilk drove the PL into existence based on the greed of the bigger clubs, which was always going to lead to hardship lower down the ladder.  So he's broken football, and now his "fix" is to concentrate the power and greed into an even smaller select group of clubs on the pretext of bailing out his first fuck up.  It's almost as if him getting himself selected as head of the EFL was planned all along.....

It also shows that American businessman are questionable as "fit and proper" owners of British clubs if their MO is to aim for the relegation free comfort they enjoy in the American sports scene. It goes against 140 plus years of the tradition and history of the game and nothing is guaranteed to destroy smaller clubs and cause untold damage to their communities than that approach.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 13, 2020, 03:43:46 PM
Bail out the EFL on the proviso that Rick Parry resigns immediately.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: JimmyV on October 13, 2020, 03:44:51 PM
I don't think putting something on the table that leads to the response of 'fuck off' can be seen as opening discussions.

Haha you wouldn't have thought so but the reality is that restructure is now firmly on the table and being discussed. You can envisage them now working backwards to find a compromise that can then be forced through.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: rob_bridge on October 13, 2020, 03:45:34 PM
Ourselves, Leicester and Arsenal are the 'undecided's' according to the Daily Mail (not providing a link).

What's to decide really.  It's utter cack.

Well I suppose we'll take the rap for sending 40 clubs to the wall if we don't agree.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 13, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
As others have alluded to, this is a red herring. A dead cat thrown on the table, a tactic often used in political strategy. I have no doubt it has been deliberately leaked despite the public protestions of Parry the willing stooge. Look how available he was to conduct media interviews with all and sundry immediately. Uncanny. They know there is not a chance in hell this would get voted through in its leaked form. What it has achieved is to open the discussion, shift the narrative and give a starting point for negotations with the aim of settling on a proposal a step or two back from the current, somewhat nuclear opening gambit. This is just a continuation of English club football being tenderised and manipulated further by financial aims. This is now big business after all, the prime concern being profit.

In terms of a work around, a Netflix style subscription service would give an opportunity for the equitable sharing of revenues to all, fuck sky/BT/Amazon etc - go straight to market. Would be worth billions and piss all over any current TV deal in terms of club revenues.

Would a subscription service be more equitable? - the big 6 would only agree to it on a per club basis and so would get a bigger share of the revenue than they do now.  It wold be like the Spanish clubs, able to negotiate their own individual deals.

And I would bet against Parry being any kind of stooge - if there is football damaging money grabbing shit flying around my money is on him being one of the organ grinders, not one of the monkeys.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on October 13, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
It’s strange that this only emerged following both teams getting truly destroyed and two weeks for it o be gloated over! Maybe they just dreamed it up over the weekend to give us something else to talk about? 🙃
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: OCD on October 13, 2020, 04:39:28 PM
I don't think it will have sat well when the clubs with big squads couldn't get the rule change through for this season that would have allowed up to 5 substitutes being used.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: DennisHodgetts on October 13, 2020, 04:49:48 PM
Villa effectively formed the Football league, we have owners who are as rich as Croesus, perhaps Villa (well our owners so as not to breach FFP!!) should offer a loan to the EFL on fair commercial terms to show the alleged "Big 6" what class, history and respect for your fellow competitors looks like. Just a thought :)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 13, 2020, 05:37:59 PM
Villa effectively formed the Football league, we have owners who are as rich as Croesus, perhaps Villa (well our owners so as not to breach FFP!!) should offer a loan to the EFL on fair commercial terms to show the alleged "Big 6" what class, history and respect for your fellow competitors looks like. Just a thought :)

Oooh! Nice thinking.

A loan to tide them over the rough times without giving it all away to the Slimy 6.
A loan which they can convert at any time to supporters capital to bolster each club's ownership by the fans.
A loan with only one string; vote against the Big 6.

There are many ways to structure it, could even be a long-term bond.

I like your thinking!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 13, 2020, 05:38:38 PM
Ourselves, Leicester and Arsenal are the 'undecided's' according to the Daily Mail (not providing a link).

What's to decide really.  It's utter cack.

Fence sitting to see which way the wind blows.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 13, 2020, 05:39:15 PM
Villa effectively formed the Football league, we have owners who are as rich as Croesus, perhaps Villa (well our owners so as not to breach FFP!!) should offer a loan to the EFL on fair commercial terms to show the alleged "Big 6" what class, history and respect for your fellow competitors looks like. Just a thought :)

That might not be a bad idea, one of Wes Edens' niches is buying and rapidly rebuilding institutions in crisis.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 13, 2020, 07:44:52 PM
Well I suppose we'll take the rap for sending 40 clubs to the wall if we don't agree.

As far as I can see we just haven't commented with 9 clubs against which makes it tough to get 14 votes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8835395/EFL-clubs-SPLIT-support-Project-Big-Picture-following-meetings-72-sides.html
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 13, 2020, 07:49:15 PM
We ought to be condemning this out of hand.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: chrisw1 on October 13, 2020, 08:10:54 PM
I listened to the Ornstein & Chapman podcast and whilst the contributors were largely against it, they were nowhere near as much so as I expected.

Whatever the merits of giving the lower tiers more money they seem to miss the fundamental issue that removing genuine competition from the PL would ruin top tier football as we know it.  The scales are already tipped way too far in favour of the big clubs and those in the CL.  Whilst I understand clubs will always want a bigger slice of a pay they feel they are instrumental in making, why can't people see that this would just be killing the goose that lays the golden egg?

How fantastic was it when Leicester won the PL?  If there is never a chance of a team like Villa, Leicester, Everton or Newcastle achieving similar then what is the point?

My worry is the proposals will be watered down, but we'll still end up with a far more polarised split in PL with the top clubs getting a bigger share of the money and a gap that is just impossible to bridge.  And whilst handing this to them (and the 5 subs rule etc) the rest of the plebs will be sighing in relief that they just avoided armegedon.  If pundits like this aren't picking it up, then is this message being missed?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 13, 2020, 08:13:12 PM
We ought to be condemning this out of hand.

Agree - it’s a bloody ridiculous idea.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: steamer on October 13, 2020, 08:19:41 PM
I listened to the Ornstein & Chapman podcast and whilst the contributors were largely against it, they were nowhere near as much so as I expected.

Whatever the merits of giving the lower tiers more money they seem to miss the fundamental issue that removing genuine competition from the PL would ruin top tier football as we know it.  The scales are already tipped way too far in favour of the big clubs and those in the CL.  Whilst I understand clubs will always want a bigger slice of a pay they feel they are instrumental in making, why can't people see that this would just be killing the goose that lays the golden egg?

How fantastic was it when Leicester won the PL?  If there is never a chance of a team like Villa, Leicester, Everton or Newcastle achieving similar then what is the point?

My worry is the proposals will be watered down, but we'll still end up with a far more polarised split in PL with the top clubs getting a bigger share of the money and a gap that is just impossible to bridge.  And whilst handing this to them (and the 5 subs rule etc) the rest of the plebs will be sighing in relief that they just avoided armegedon.  If pundits like this aren't picking it up, then is this message being missed?
What I said earlier
Run something up the flagpole and see who salutes it
Get some of what you want, breach the baracades and come back for more later.
Do not negotiate, fuck them off in totality
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: CT on October 13, 2020, 09:08:49 PM
It’s almost like they don’t want fans back and attending matches.

They all seem to be doing their best to drive away supporters with PPV games and now this. 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 13, 2020, 09:10:59 PM
What would happen if we were part of the Magic Group? Would it suddenly become a Good Thing?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cheltenhamlion on October 13, 2020, 09:13:31 PM
No. The entire notion is a piss taking shower of shit.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 13, 2020, 09:13:48 PM
What would happen if we were part of the Magic Group? Would it suddenly become a Good Thing?

No. As evidenced by the reactions of the six clubs' fans groups.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 13, 2020, 09:16:32 PM
I'm more curious about what Fulham Brighton Burnley make of it. On the one hand more money for EFL clubs. On the other hand, no parachute payments.

I suppose project know your place isn't as catchy.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 13, 2020, 09:18:20 PM
What would happen if we were part of the Magic Group? Would it suddenly become a Good Thing?

No. As evidenced by the reactions of the six clubs' fans groups.

I'd hope that clubs like ours would rise above being patted on the head and being told we were Big but I have my doubts.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 13, 2020, 09:21:14 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure how solidly Purslow would resist in such circumstances. And the owners didn't make their dough through altruism.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cheltenhamlion on October 13, 2020, 09:21:48 PM
For the good of all that is left of the shitty money driven Gollum that is now football, no set of supporters should accept these measures. Money grabbing, power grabbing, drawbridge pulling upping, bunch of ******.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 13, 2020, 09:25:44 PM
I would like our management to come out against it  just like West Ham have done.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 13, 2020, 09:35:24 PM
Now I think of it, if they came back with a proposal that expanded the 'special shareholders' or whatever they're calling it so that it just excluded 5 clubs rather than 11 and kept the qualified voting threshold at 2/3 of the group of 15 I think avarice would do the rest for them.

It'd still be shit, whether it included us or not (it probably would - WBA, Brighton, Burnley, Sheff U and Palace/maybe Villa would likely be the ones to 'miss out'), but it'd sail through.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 13, 2020, 09:39:46 PM
Now I think of it, if they came back with a proposal that expanded the 'special shareholders' or whatever they're calling it so that it just excluded 5 clubs rather than 11 and kept the qualified voting threshold at 2/3 of the group of 15 I think avarice would do the rest for them.

It'd still be shit, whether it included us or not (it probably would - WBA, Brighton, Burnley, Sheff U and Palace/maybe Villa would likely be the ones to 'miss out'), but it'd sail through.

Us & Everton invited in as founder members, Leicester as former champions, Newcastle just because. Leeds & Wolves will vote for it as they're going to be in the top six any day now for ever and ever. There's your majority with a bit to spare.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: OCD on October 13, 2020, 09:41:44 PM
What was the bit about the loan system being restructured so that the 'big 6' could hoard a stupid amount of top players? I've heard it mentioned but not seen it mentioned in the main articles.

I thought the 39th game was a stupid idea and they've been working on this for 3 years? That's got lawyer written all over it.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 13, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
My paranoia thinks:

1) Extend "special status" to 14 with 9 votes needed to pass a motion
2) League is reduced to 18, making "special status" fairly worthless
3) Rich six and table scraps three, vote together to screw the rest
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 13, 2020, 10:17:18 PM
What would happen if we were part of the Magic Group? Would it suddenly become a Good Thing?

Nope.  One club, one vote.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 13, 2020, 10:29:13 PM
Terrible idea regardless of who is proposing it, I'm bemused so many are obsessing over who goes in which group.

Getting rid of the League Cup and removing 50% of the realistic trophy options for many competitors, effectively erasing the significance of huge swathes of our history in the process, is wank.

Reducing the league to eighteen clubs is wank.

Allowing a Premier League club a back door to avoid relegation at the expense of a Championship club is wank.

Rigging the voting procedure to shaft clubs who aren't part of any perceived elite (regardless of whether Villa are included) is wank.

Allowing clubs the capacity to veto new ownership of a potential rival is wank.

Even the Community Shield, while hardly the most prestigious event of the year, is fairly benign and, presumably, raises some money for worthy causes. Scrapping it so that Man U can play an extra friendly in some dubious regime for millions is wank.

Using a global pandemic as a means to threaten and cajole clubs to get your own way is wank.

Attach the whole proposal to a rocket with that massive wanker Parry strapped on and fire it into the fucking sun.

Wankers.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: andyh on October 13, 2020, 10:29:15 PM
Are ‘the big 6’ worried about the up and coming oiks who have money and will threaten their position over the coming years?
Villa being a prime example.

Construct a new ruling cabal, modify and change the rules so that the interests of the current big 6 are protected for ever, and their position in the big 6 is secure forever.

God forbid should Villa or Leeds or Wolves be allowed to invest and improve and break into that exclusive club.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: itbrvilla on October 13, 2020, 10:46:30 PM
****** the fucking lot of them. Destroying domestic football. Should be dragged behind a horse.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: JimmyV on October 13, 2020, 10:48:15 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/oct/13/david-squires-on-project-big-small-print-selflessly-saving-english-football#comment-144474670
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 13, 2020, 11:03:10 PM
The Community Shield money isn't massive in one go, as it's something like £5000 for each club that is in the first round. But in total that's 400k every year that won't be going into community projects.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 13, 2020, 11:43:41 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/oct/13/david-squires-on-project-big-small-print-selflessly-saving-english-football#comment-144474670

Enjoyed that earlier. Is your handle a reference to the 1983 Wolfpack coach?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 14, 2020, 12:11:33 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/oct/13/david-squires-on-project-big-small-print-selflessly-saving-english-football#comment-144474670

It's a complex situation with no quick fixes other than the Premier League comfortably affording to just pay the £250m EFL bailout and agreeing to a fairer distribution of tv revenue in the long run.

It's almost vomit-inducing that there'd be any conditions at all to this, let alone the ones that some grubbing ****** have proposed.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Rory on October 14, 2020, 12:15:26 AM
We ought to be condemning this out of hand.

Agree - it’s a bloody ridiculous idea.

I don't expect we will, but 100% agree.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: KevinGage on October 14, 2020, 01:21:35 AM
What was the bit about the loan system being restructured so that the 'big 6' could hoard a stupid amount of top players? I've heard it mentioned but not seen it mentioned in the main articles.

I thought the 39th game was a stupid idea and they've been working on this for 3 years? That's got lawyer written all over it.

That, and Liverpool and Citeh are obviously a bit miffed that the 5 sub rule didn't get the go ahead.

For Citeh in particular you can see why that would be irksome. Ensuring brainwaves of a similar nature in future get through without scrutiny is the way to go.

For the Redscouse, all it takes is one title win in the last 30 years and they want to reinvent the wheel.

A pox on both their houses.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 14, 2020, 06:30:24 AM
Villa have managed to attract a number of 'top prospects' for the youth team this summer often, it is alleged, from under the noses of the 'big six'.

Another sign that the tectonic plates are shifting and yet more reasons for panic amongst the chosen one's.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: mr underhill on October 14, 2020, 09:02:25 AM
The usual suspects have wanted to leave the league for years and form a European super league. Let them do it. Avaricious ******.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 14, 2020, 09:09:12 AM
This European Super League line is trotted out too easily. Why would these six clubs want such a thing given that the PL as it is is the “product” that the world supposedly loves?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 14, 2020, 09:20:32 AM
Terrible idea regardless of who is proposing it, I'm bemused so many are obsessing over who goes in which group.

Getting rid of the League Cup and removing 50% of the realistic trophy options for many competitors, effectively erasing the significance of huge swathes of our history in the process, is wank.

Reducing the league to eighteen clubs is wank.

Allowing a Premier League club a back door to avoid relegation at the expense of a Championship club is wank.

Rigging the voting procedure to shaft clubs who aren't part of any perceived elite (regardless of whether Villa are included) is wank.

Allowing clubs the capacity to veto new ownership of a potential rival is wank.

Even the Community Shield, while hardly the most prestigious event of the year, is fairly benign and, presumably, raises some money for worthy causes. Scrapping it so that Man U can play an extra friendly in some dubious regime for millions is wank.

Using a global pandemic as a means to threaten and cajole clubs to get your own way is wank.

Attach the whole proposal to a rocket with that massive wanker Parry strapped on and fire it into the fucking sun.

Wankers.
This is what I've been trying to post for ages but haven't found the words. Turns out the right wording was in the palm of my hand all along.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 14, 2020, 09:23:42 AM
Our CEO has spoken.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12103739/purslow-critical-of-parry-approach
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 14, 2020, 09:30:58 AM
They should increase the size of the Premier League, that would be better.

They should reduce the Champions League, that would be better.

They should increase the number of teams relegated and promoted to 4. That would be better.

They should make the League Cup and FA Cup winners play off for a Champions League place. (or have a Cup Winners Cup) That would better.

All the clubs should put a percentage of their income into a pot that is then shared out across the football league structure. That would be better.

They should reduce the number of loans out a club can do.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 14, 2020, 09:34:31 AM
Our CEO has spoken.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12103739/purslow-critical-of-parry-approach

Well done Purslow.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 14, 2020, 09:43:16 AM
They should increase the size of the Premier League, that would be better.

They should reduce the Champions League, that would be better.

They should increase the number of teams relegated and promoted to 4. That would be better.

They should make the League Cup and FA Cup winners play off for a Champions League place. (or have a Cup Winners Cup) That would better.

All the clubs should put a percentage of their income into a pot that is then shared out across the football league structure. That would be better.

They should reduce the number of loans out a club can do.
BRAVO!
They should also stop investments from foreign owners who have dirty money such as  wealth created from slave labour and stolen state money that belongs to people of that land.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 14, 2020, 09:45:43 AM
Glad we seem to be against the proposal. Although I would rather we vehemently opposed the ideas themselves rather than just the means by which they had been suggested.

Still, so far, the list below is accurate as far as I can see...

GOOD GUYS

Aston Villa
West Ham United

WANKSOCKS

Leyton Orient
Liverpool
Manchester United



Please can people advise on announcements by clubs so I can add them to the relevant list.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Dr Butler on October 14, 2020, 09:53:43 AM
Our CEO has spoken.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12103739/purslow-critical-of-parry-approach

sorry but I'm at work so cannot play the video at this time.

So what was the jist of Purslow's response ?

they are cnuts and can fcuk right off ??

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 14, 2020, 09:56:03 AM
Our CEO has spoken.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12103739/purslow-critical-of-parry-approach



sorry but I'm at work so cannot play the video at this time.

So what was the jist of Purslow's response ?

they are cnuts and can fcuk right off ??

UTV
The Doc


word for word ! :)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AV82EC on October 14, 2020, 09:57:32 AM
Glad we seem to be against the proposal. Although I would rather we vehemently opposed the ideas themselves rather than just the means by which they had been suggested.

Still, so far, the list below is accurate as far as I can see...

GOOD GUYS

Aston Villa
West Ham United

WANKSOCKS

Leyton Orient
Liverpool
Manchester United



Please can people advise on announcements by clubs so I can add them to the relevant list.

I know its probably stating the obvious but the FSA added to the good guys list? along with just about every individual club Supporters Trust from around the leagues.

 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 14, 2020, 10:14:51 AM
Can do but I was thinking more in terms of potential votes, who can wee see that is likely to vote for and against the proposals. Trusts will likely not be getting a say.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: maidstonevillain on October 14, 2020, 10:17:28 AM
Purslow being reported on BBC now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54535326

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AV82EC on October 14, 2020, 10:28:58 AM
I think Parry's position at the EFL will be untenable if they don't get a deal with the PL. He tried to divide and conquer using his contacts with the US owners and it appears to be backfiring in spectacular manner. I'm not sure the Sky 6 will be enamoured with how this has gone either. Oh to be a fly on the wall of the PL meeting today.

   
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 14, 2020, 11:23:13 AM
Parry citing that EFL owners are happy is totally disingenuous. Yes  they want this desperately they want anything desperately to protect their clubs. Forcing through  fundamental decision in a crisis is the act of utter selfishness and total greed. Parry, Joel Glazier and the Fenway group absolute scum.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: tomd2103 on October 14, 2020, 11:24:20 AM
This European Super League line is trotted out too easily. Why would these six clubs want such a thing given that the PL as it is is the “product” that the world supposedly loves?

Journo on Talk Sport last night was saying that he thinks that a European Super League is not the 'nuclear' option should enough top flight clubs vote against the proposal.  He said he thinks those pushing the agenda could threaten a breakaway league including some of the Championship clubs.

As an aside, I follow Welsh rugby and these kind of situations happen every few years between the professional clubs and the Union.  There is talk of breakaway leagues and clubs joining other set ups, but nothing ever really comes of it, just a bit more money shared about.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: jwarry on October 14, 2020, 11:36:00 AM
I suspect the so called big 6 will regret not trying to bring us in to their fold.  They could probably bully other clubs but not us!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: rob_bridge on October 14, 2020, 11:39:15 AM
I suspect the so called big 6 will regret not trying to bring us in to their fold.  They could probably bully other clubs but not us!

Well yeah along with Everton (properly) Newcastle Leeds Wolves Leicester and West Ham
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: bill on October 14, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
A breakaway league would be a non starter I think. The FA would simply ban any competing clubs from European competitions, and any players would lose their right to be picked for Internationals, for any country. It was tried in cricket with the Kerry Packer experiment. It failed.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: chrisw1 on October 14, 2020, 11:49:12 AM
A breakaway league would be a non starter I think. The FA would simply ban any competing clubs from European competitions, and any players would lose their right to be picked for Internationals, for any country. It was tried in cricket with the Kerry Packer experiment. It failed.
If the breakaway involved the top 6 clubs then I don't think the FA would dare take those sanctions.  But it's hypothetical as there's no chance of that happening.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: bill on October 14, 2020, 11:55:23 AM
Fifa and UEFA would back the FA. Why wouldn’t they “dare” to protect their interests. The over inflated self importance of some so called big clubs would be exposed to the reality that the FA can pull their plug out quite easily.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 14, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
UEFA came out pretty strongly against the idea of a super league as recently as last year.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: chrisw1 on October 14, 2020, 12:27:27 PM
Fifa and UEFA would back the FA. Why wouldn’t they “dare” to protect their interests. The over inflated self importance of some so called big clubs would be exposed to the reality that the FA can pull their plug out quite easily.
Because in my opinion there are no circumstances whatsoever where the FA would effectively seek to extinguish the top 6 clubs.  Too may people see them as the crown jewels of English football and there is too much money involved and there would be too many expensive lawyers involved.  But as I said it's academic as it will never happen.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 14, 2020, 12:27:48 PM
There is a European League now - it is just wrongly named the Champions League.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: WassallVillain on October 14, 2020, 12:33:15 PM
Our CEO has spoken.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12103739/purslow-critical-of-parry-approach
Quite a classy announcement I think.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 14, 2020, 01:28:25 PM
Fifa and UEFA would back the FA. Why wouldn’t they “dare” to protect their interests. The over inflated self importance of some so called big clubs would be exposed to the reality that the FA can pull their plug out quite easily.
Because in my opinion there are no circumstances whatsoever where the FA would effectively seek to extinguish the top 6 clubs.  Too may people see them as the crown jewels of English football and there is too much money involved and there would be too many expensive lawyers involved.  But as I said it's academic as it will never happen.

If they left the PL for a European super league then they'd be out of the FA as they wouldn't be in the English footballing system.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: chrisw1 on October 14, 2020, 02:02:38 PM
A City fans trust spokesman was on Sky Sports at lunchtime.  He spoke well and essentially said the fans of all top 6 clubs were in agreement and massively against these proposals, in particular the proposed voting structure.  Fair play to them and the other fans for opposing this so strongly.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brazilian Villain on October 14, 2020, 02:07:39 PM
If you tolerate this then your football team will be next, will be next...
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ad@m on October 14, 2020, 02:39:43 PM
Fifa and UEFA would back the FA. Why wouldn’t they “dare” to protect their interests. The over inflated self importance of some so called big clubs would be exposed to the reality that the FA can pull their plug out quite easily.
Because in my opinion there are no circumstances whatsoever where the FA would effectively seek to extinguish the top 6 clubs.  Too may people see them as the crown jewels of English football and there is too much money involved and there would be too many expensive lawyers involved.  But as I said it's academic as it will never happen.

If they left the PL for a European super league then they'd be out of the FA as they wouldn't be in the English footballing system.

I'd imagine there were similar discussions before the Premier League was formed - "they'll never do it", "the Football League won't allow it", etc.

The biggest hurdle the Sky 6 would face would be getting the other big European clubs to join them. If they could do that they're effectively creating a new Champions League where they are in control. The TV money would follow and they could make it work. Without them it just doesn't work.

I'm just not sure the Barcas, Reals, Milans of this world are at the same point, especially as in the case of the Spanish clubs they get to sell their own TV rights already.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 14, 2020, 02:51:55 PM
A super league would kill the Champions league and Europa stone dead. There isn't a chance UEFA nor FIFA or indeed any domestic FA would stand for their cash-cows being milked by other farmers.

Its as pie in the sky as the Scottish clubs joining the premier league, which used to be touted annually right up until a few years ago.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 14, 2020, 04:09:06 PM
A super league would kill the Champions league and Europa stone dead. There isn't a chance UEFA nor FIFA or indeed any domestic FA would stand for their cash-cows being milked by other farmers.

Its as pie in the sky as the Scottish clubs joining the premier league, which used to be touted annually right up until a few years ago.

Yep, uefa would push to make players in that competition to be ineligible for the euros and world cup to protect it's own existence and that's why I don't see anything much beyond the existing Champions League happening any time soon.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ian c. on October 14, 2020, 04:40:54 PM
Apparently they have been forced into a climbdown.

Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/14/premier-league-efl-bailout-project-big-picture)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 14, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
Unanimous rejection at today’s meeting.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 14, 2020, 04:54:33 PM
Lying wankers.


I refer to Liverpool and ManUre trying to deny they had done anything. Twats.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 14, 2020, 05:01:58 PM
I don't see how they could be part of the FA if they don't play in the English system, it's totally different to the PL being set up. A super league won't happen for a number of reasons but in the hypothetical scenario of it happening they wouldn't be FA clubs. With no English league status they wouldn't qualify for the FA Cup for example.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 14, 2020, 05:12:27 PM
Yeah ok, I assume what you wanted was to be told to fuck off and thought of as a right ****** by pretty much everyone in the game and by most fans of all clubs.

Quote
Those behind the Big Picture Project did not see Wednesday’s developments as a defeat. Sources close to John W Henry said that the Liverpool owner felt he had got “pretty much everything we wanted” in agreeing to an urgent review of the structures of the game. “We put forward proposals and they’re now being considered”, the source said. Expectations are that the review would include the EFL and would be completed before the sale of a new round of broadcast rights. The process of putting rights out to tender for the period 2022-2025 had been expected to be before the end of this year.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: john e on October 14, 2020, 05:24:33 PM
we haven’t got a top 6 anyway

we have a top 2
Liverpool and Man Utd are massive global brands that eclipse everyone else in the premier league

there is a chasm between Spurs, Chelsea Man City and Man Utd or Liverpool
There’s not a chasm between Spurs Man City etc and Villa, Everton or even Leeds in fact you could argue it’s the other way round or could be given time

it’s a top 2 (Man U & L’pool)
Then Arsenal
Then about 6 clubs including us fighting for position, depending on money and performance at any given time
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 14, 2020, 05:39:15 PM
I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 14, 2020, 05:44:48 PM
I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

It's definitely not over.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 14, 2020, 05:45:58 PM
I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

On the league cup stuff, I'd be fine with clubs in Europe being excluded from it so long as it kept the Europa league place for the winners (and reverted it back to going to the runners up if the winners get into Europe via the league). Having European games in the same nights as league cup games makes a lot more sense than now and most premier league clubs don't play a main team until the QF at the earliest anyway.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: malckennedy on October 14, 2020, 05:46:25 PM
It’s the voting rights changes that are the real issue. I think they’ve lost that.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: manic-road on October 14, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
As it was a unanimous vote I presume Man U and Liverpool voted against the proposals they put forward.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on October 14, 2020, 06:15:19 PM
After an archive search I've found the following words of  William McGregor ,published in an article in the Sunderland Echo , 31 January 1903 - they seem relevant to what's going on over a century later. I can't attach the extract so I've reproduced it in quotes here :

"There was no idea (when the League was founded) that the League should ever become a legislative body. An organisation which has merely the interests of its own members at heart cannot legislate for the welfare of the pastime as a whole, and those who would seek to give the League functions which it did not originally claim are not acting in the best interests of football as a whole."

He went on to say :

" Although I was at one time in favour of The Federation of Leagues I did not shut my eyes to the fact that they might be tempted to usurp the powers of the Football Association, which would never allow a body comprising so many powerful clubs to amalgamate in this way "


Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 14, 2020, 06:35:12 PM
I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

On the league cup stuff, I'd be fine with clubs in Europe being excluded from it so long as it kept the Europa league place for the winners (and reverted it back to going to the runners up if the winners get into Europe via the league). Having European games in the same nights as league cup games makes a lot more sense than now and most premier league clubs don't play a main team until the QF at the earliest anyway.

It’s already lost the Europa League place hasn’t it? It’s now got entry to the Europa Conference or whatever the third tier competition is called.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Exeter 77 on October 14, 2020, 08:04:50 PM
I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

On the league cup stuff, I'd be fine with clubs in Europe being excluded from it so long as it kept the Europa league place for the winners (and reverted it back to going to the runners up if the winners get into Europe via the league). Having European games in the same nights as league cup games makes a lot more sense than now and most premier league clubs don't play a main team until the QF at the earliest anyway.
I don't  think the League Cup runners up ever got the place in Europe. If the winners had already qualified it went to the a league placing.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 14, 2020, 08:06:40 PM
Yep, LC runners up have never been given a European spot.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 14, 2020, 08:17:45 PM
I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

On the league cup stuff, I'd be fine with clubs in Europe being excluded from it so long as it kept the Europa league place for the winners (and reverted it back to going to the runners up if the winners get into Europe via the league). Having European games in the same nights as league cup games makes a lot more sense than now and most premier league clubs don't play a main team until the QF at the earliest anyway.

Absolutely not. Exempt the top teams from it and it immediately becomes a glorified Leyland Daf Cup.

It is one of only two domestic trophies we have a realistic chance of winning in the coming years. We have won it five times and many of our greatest ever players have lifted the trophy.

Your plan would completely undermine it. And winning a trophy and not being able to defend it is silly.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 14, 2020, 08:48:44 PM
I have a bad feeling they will be back with this shit. Ditch the voting changes and claim it shows evidence that they have listened to the fans.

Come back to try to fuck over the League Cup and possibly reduce the Premier League while they're at it.

On the league cup stuff, I'd be fine with clubs in Europe being excluded from it so long as it kept the Europa league place for the winners (and reverted it back to going to the runners up if the winners get into Europe via the league). Having European games in the same nights as league cup games makes a lot more sense than now and most premier league clubs don't play a main team until the QF at the earliest anyway.

Absolutely not. Exempt the top teams from it and it immediately becomes a glorified Leyland Daf Cup.

It is one of only two domestic trophies we have a realistic chance of winning in the coming years. We have won it five times and many of our greatest ever players have lifted the trophy.

Your plan would completely undermine it. And winning a trophy and not being able to defend it is silly.
Agree 100%.

I quite like the quickfire early rounds this season, I'd be quite happy to keep that. Perhaps play the final slightly earlier in the season. But I like the League Cup and don't think it needs to be devalued.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 14, 2020, 08:57:03 PM
Yep, LC runners up have never been given a European spot.

Was that only ever for the FA cup then? Fair enough.

I'm not sure letting the european sides miss out undermines the competition more than premier league teams regularly picking a completely rotated team or Liverpool playing their U18 squad because of a fixture clash.

Either way as a tournament it needs something to liven it up because it's been an ugly step sister for the last 15-20 years, mostly as a result of the increased games in europe forcing the rounds into the worst time slots where teams just don't want to risk their better players.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 14, 2020, 09:00:21 PM
It was only the FA Cup, and that was only for x years.

Reality is the LC as a whole has been undermined for yonks. I think the only thing people have to decide is which undermines it the most, lineups like Wolves and Liverpool did last season or them not being in it in the first place.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 14, 2020, 09:04:16 PM
The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience, is repulsive.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Rory on October 14, 2020, 09:29:26 PM
The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience is repulsive.

Well said, CD.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ldavfc4eva on October 14, 2020, 09:35:01 PM
Beat me to it Rory, very well said CD totally agree
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: curiousorange on October 14, 2020, 10:39:30 PM
Funny how there aren't too many games when there's a Club World Cup tournament that needs winning.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: danno on October 14, 2020, 10:41:43 PM
And there’s not nearly enough competitive games for all the best young players they stockpile.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Hockley Lion on October 14, 2020, 11:22:44 PM
This is nothing less than an attempted coup d'état by individual owners of certain clubs within the league. It's unconstitutional as the PL was set up with members of equal status from the outset.

It is proof positive that these sleezy individuals are not "fit and proper" to own and run a club within a broadly democratic league. They should be required to sell their stake in the clubs they own in the same way people are be prevented from buying clubs or owning more than one in the same league. Some owners I believe have had to sell one of their clubs because of a conflict of interest. There is no room for them within the democratic structures of any of the English leagues for the same reason.

No league can be considered fair if certain members have elevated status, rights, and power over the majority of other members.

From what I've seen their fans don't like it, even the government doesn't like it, and I don't see how anyone else could like it either. All the stuff about reducing the size of the league and the trickle down of funds to lower divisions is smoke and mirrors.

They should face a committee to answer charges that they are trying to:

1) Seize power of a democratic organisation, against the best interests of the majority of its members.

2) They are trying to re-constitute the league to benefit themselves at others expense and using threats to leave as aggressive leverage.

Surely only the Premier League is affiliated to have entrants into the top European competitions from English clubs? That's why they need to change it from within.

Make it clear in no uncertain terms that their proposal is incompatible with fairness and give them the option of staying and finding new owners, or leaving English football immediately. Make it clear also that returning as the same club with their current owners and history would not be allowed. They would have to be phoenix clubs starting in the lowest area division and working their way up. Then see how long they need to think about dropping their proposals.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 15, 2020, 08:34:40 AM
And where do we proportion the blame of all of this with Sky?

They obsess over how much money players are bought and sold for, to the point it becomes a senior part of their programming scheduling.
Club's have had to face huge spiralli g costs for players with wages following suit. This means that they have to constantly reinvent revenue streams to keep up. (Who can forget John Deere proud lawn mower providers for red filth united)

It really has become a financial monster that has to be continually fed.

Don't hate the players, hate the game
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: robbo1874 on October 15, 2020, 09:08:59 AM
The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience, is repulsive.
completely agree with your last point. It’s the only legitimate silverware I’ve been in the ground on the day to see us lift. Happy times- a win in a proper cup at Wembley stays with you forever.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: eamonn on October 15, 2020, 09:26:13 AM
Can we hate the agents too?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: chrisw1 on October 15, 2020, 09:40:30 AM
The latter, by a million miles. The fact that Wolves have ideas above their station and the league failed to anticipate the possibility that the European Champions might have a decent run in the League Cup doesn't mean the competition is no longer worth winning. Reducing it to being an Also Rans' Cup would.

In any case, what's the point? There seems to be this obsession that teams play too many games... it is total bollocks.

The League Cup has, in recent years, scrapped two leg games before the semi-finals (and for the semi-finals this year), removed replays, cancelled extra time before the semis and byed clubs in European competition through to the Third Round.

The FA Cup has scrapped multiple replays and any replays after the Fourth Round.

The Champions League has replaced a Second Group Stage with a two game knockout and removed qualifiers for English clubs. Only one English club now plays any qualifying matches, which I think remains the case next season. Even the Super Cup has gone from two legs to one.

Players are rotated more than ever before. They are fitter than ever before and have better diets than ever before (Richard Dunne excepted). They are able to still play at the elite level at an age when in previous years they would be considering retirement.

There is no need to reduce games. Scrapping the League Cup and/or Community Shield or reducing the size of the Premier League are solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

The idea that we should be scrapping or emaciating a great competition, which has given many of us some of our happiest memories as Villa fans, merely because a couple of billionaire teams find some of the matches to be a mild inconvenience, is repulsive.
Good stuff CD.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ian c. on October 15, 2020, 10:05:04 AM
After an archive search I've found the following words of  William McGregor ,published in an article in the Sunderland Echo , 31 January 1903 - they seem relevant to what's going on over a century later. I can't attach the extract so I've reproduced it in quotes here :

"There was no idea (when the League was founded) that the League should ever become a legislative body. An organisation which has merely the interests of its own members at heart cannot legislate for the welfare of the pastime as a whole, and those who would seek to give the League functions which it did not originally claim are not acting in the best interests of football as a whole." ...


I like that. I'm surprised Philosophy Football haven't put it on a T-Shirt yet.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2020, 10:15:47 AM
So the idea was booted out 20-0 I heard?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: darren woolley on October 15, 2020, 10:18:01 AM
I'm glad it was booted out.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2020, 10:28:41 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/14/premier-league-efl-bailout-project-big-picture
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Dr Butler on October 15, 2020, 11:18:05 AM
So the idea was booted out 20-0 I heard?

20-0 ???  what about the two shithouses that are behind it ?

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: curiousorange on October 15, 2020, 11:22:31 AM
Henry and the Glazers don't have the first idea about the way football's viewed in this country, which is why they were thrashing out voting blocs and world rights in the first place. To them, it's a product you package and sell for as much as you can because your product is the most marketable. In their eyes, why wouldn't they?

Sport in Britain is generally run like a corner shop, for all of its supposed stardust. That's one of the reasons we feel our clubs belong to us. But for a billionaire owner the club belongs to the market first and foremost. Our owners have done well by us but I wonder if they feel the same. I reckon Arsenal and Spuds do.

Anyway, this will be back and at every stage, the wiggle room will get smaller and smaller. First they used the sugared pill of an EFL bailout, it'll be some other idea next which will get a few more clubs agreeing to it until they get their way.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: OCD on October 15, 2020, 11:50:45 AM
Why would you put forward a proposal and then once it's put to the vote, vote against it yourself? The whole thing has been completely mad.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 15, 2020, 01:12:33 PM
Why would you put forward a proposal and then once it's put to the vote, vote against it yourself? The whole thing has been completely mad.

I suspect they were told they were arseholes and that they'd better decide to work with, not against the other clubs and the Premier League otherwise there would be some repercussions.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Gareth on October 15, 2020, 03:00:23 PM
If there is any proposal that involves abolishing the league cup they can do one - there are soo many meaningless champions league or Europa league fixtures....if the so called big clubs want less football they can go lobby uefa to reduce those fixtures and leave the league cup alone.  Alternatively they play the kids but have no facility to switch in first teamers for the later rounds.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 15, 2020, 03:03:18 PM
If there is any proposal that involves abolishing the league cup they can do one - there are soo many meaningless champions league or Europa league fixtures....if the so called big clubs want less football they can go lobby uefa to reduce those fixtures and leave the league cup alone.  Alternatively they play the kids but have no facility to switch in first teamers for the later rounds.
This.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 15, 2020, 04:13:37 PM
So the idea was booted out 20-0 I heard?
Confusing. That means Poo and Manure voted against their own Project?

Bitten off more than they could chew.

We all know what they want though.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VinnieChase84 on October 15, 2020, 04:17:15 PM
If there is any proposal that involves abolishing the league cup they can do one - there are soo many meaningless champions league or Europa league fixtures....if the so called big clubs want less football they can go lobby uefa to reduce those fixtures and leave the league cup alone.  Alternatively they play the kids but have no facility to switch in first teamers for the later rounds.



Totally agree. Something needs to be done on clubs using youth etc in part then further they get into the competition they draft in your de bruynes etc
If they dont want to play in it cause of being in europe etc the more the merrier
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Gareth on October 15, 2020, 04:45:32 PM
If there is any proposal that involves abolishing the league cup they can do one - there are soo many meaningless champions league or Europa league fixtures....if the so called big clubs want less football they can go lobby uefa to reduce those fixtures and leave the league cup alone.  Alternatively they play the kids but have no facility to switch in first teamers for the later rounds.



Totally agree. Something needs to be done on clubs using youth etc in part then further they get into the competition they draft in your de bruynes etc
If they dont want to play in it cause of being in europe etc the more the merrier

And while we are at they can come in at round one if they are playing the kids
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 15, 2020, 06:01:00 PM
Just seen a piece describing how the EFL has rejected a £50m rescue package from the PL. Something doesn't sit right with this. I wish we lived in a society where the rich subsidised the poor, and that we didn't have a Tory government to which such a concept was an anathema.

We don't though. The (no doubt uber-capitalist) owners/chairs of lower league clubs have a sense of entitlement that I guarantee doesn't extend to any other form of poverty. I do think the PL ought to bail them out, but I don't understand why the Hayekians in government and at the head of these businesses also think that.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Hockley Lion on October 15, 2020, 07:03:49 PM
If the fixture list needs to be reduced for these poor clubs they can start by reserving the Champions League for champions.

How do teams in 2nd, 3rd and 4th place get in. By what measure are they champions? It's ridiculous that any team not finishing first in their league could actually win it against a true champion. What if for instance a champion from a lower European league got to the semifinals or even the finals only to be beaten by Man City, Chelsea or any other super rich European runner up in their own league. It just stinks really.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 15, 2020, 07:20:06 PM
If the fixture list needs to be reduced for these poor clubs they can start by reserving the Champions League for champions.

How do teams in 2nd, 3rd and 4th place get in. By what measure are they champions? It's ridiculous that any team not finishing first in their league could actually win it against a true champion. What if for instance a champion from a lower European league got to the semifinals or even the finals only to be beaten by Man City, Chelsea or any other super rich European runner up in their own league. It just stinks really.
Just Champions winning it on home/away knockout (as it was when Villa won it). Much tougher than a league.

I bet there are examples of clubs that went to the CL Final who would have been knocked out much earlier on this basis.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 15, 2020, 07:39:42 PM
Gary Neville's getting a bob on himself for a TV pundit.

Giving it large about how football should be re-organised the way he wants it.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: SaddVillan on October 15, 2020, 09:38:59 PM
The Prem clubs should call the bluff of the Greedy6.

For too long the Greedy6  have bullied the other clubs to get more and more money. Well, it's time to stand up to the bullies and say enough is enough.

The 14 should them that if they really want to reduce the number of games they want to play, then it's quite simple -

they can fuck off.

Then they won't be bothered with the tiresome League Cup, the inconvenience of the FA Cup and they won't have to  schlepp up and down the country to fulfil tedious League games against nomark clubs; all of which keep getting in the way of their desire to play more and more games against other aspiring  the SuperLeague clubs.

Except, of course they'll no longer be able to play in Europe .... because they won't have a league to qualify from.

Off they go to play a constant series of pre-season and winter break exhibition/bogus Adidas/Nike cup games.

Let's see how long that would last.

And whilst we're at it, if they decide they'd rather stay in the Prem, then it's on the terms of the 14:

Take the opportunity to shaft them big style by evening up the monies paid out to all the clubs.

And if they do leave, and decide to come back, they can start in 8th Tier.

Cheers all.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: SaddVillan on October 15, 2020, 09:50:04 PM
And whilst we're at it, impose some sort of levy from transfers/football gambling/merch sales to help the lower league clubs, subject to strict financial constraints.

All clubs to produce annual financial business forecasts showing that they have the wherewithal to last the season  and they must also publish full accounts  at the year end and not the pathetic short firm versions that a lot of clubs issue.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 16, 2020, 10:22:09 AM
Gary Neville's getting a bob on himself for a TV pundit.

Giving it large about how football should be re-organised the way he wants it.

I spent 10 minutes yesterday looking into his schtick for reorganising our sport; time I'll never get back in my life. It's annoying, substanceless toss. It starts with the 'small team of experts' who he's worked with to pull this wonderful strategy together. I bet you couldn't wait to see who they include ...

Denise Lewis - the Olympic heptathlete and Gabby Logan sidekick
Helen Grant - Conservative MP
Andy (pandy) Burnham - Mayor of Greater Manchester
Gregg Scott - Lawyer
Mervyn King - ex-governor of the Bank of England (ok he's a Villa fan so we'll give him a pass)
David Davies - ex-journo/tv/presenter wallah and ex-PR director of the FA
David Bernstein - ousted Arsenal director

and I bet you couldn't pick a more thoughtful, informed, expert set of people from whom you would buy a fundamental blueprint for a national sport.

But, I hear you cry, what do they say? What nuggets of golden wisdom do they dispense?

Well ..... not much. Not much at all. They don't think the English Premier League should be more powerful. They don't think the FA are particularly credible. They think there's an 'imbalance' in finances in the game. They think some clubs exploit their fans. They think there should be more BAME coaches.

That's it. No depth, no numbers, no analysis. Oh and they think, therefore having completely won the argument with their devastating presentation, that an 'independent' body should be put in place by government to tell all these disparate parts what to do. Forever.

Possibly run by a small but well-meaning group of friends who have already got together to express their willingness to ride a gravy-train with no scruples ...

Makes me sick. Should in fact be overwhelming evidence for them to be dragged through the streets behind a galloping horse but 'Hey' we'll just have to ignore them instead.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: eamonn on October 16, 2020, 10:26:33 AM
Why is Denise Lewis involved?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 16, 2020, 10:47:50 AM
Why is Denise Lewis involved?

I assume as she might have an insight as to how funding is filtered down into athletic clubs around the country for good effect.   
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 16, 2020, 10:53:56 AM

Why is Denise Lewis involved?
[/quote]

I assume as she might have an insight as to how funding is filtered down into athletic clubs around the country for good effect.
[/quote]

As a former chair of the National Council for England Athletics and current President of Cheshire County Athletics Association I can tell you she has little to no such knowledge :)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 16, 2020, 10:58:04 AM

Why is Denise Lewis involved?

I assume as she might have an insight as to how funding is filtered down into athletic clubs around the country for good effect.
[/quote]

As a former chair of the National Council for England Athletics and current President of Cheshire County Athletics Association I can tell you she has little to no such knowledge :)
[/quote]

Well, there you go, I assumed incorrectly.  I'm as stumped as Eamonn now.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 16, 2020, 11:04:40 AM

Why is Denise Lewis involved?

I assume as she might have an insight as to how funding is filtered down into athletic clubs around the country for good effect.

As a former chair of the National Council for England Athletics and current President of Cheshire County Athletics Association I can tell you she has little to no such knowledge :)
[/quote]

Well, there you go, I assumed incorrectly.  I'm as stumped as Eamonn now.
[/quote]
But we can all agree she's the best looker in that lot?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Drummond on October 16, 2020, 01:20:45 PM
I vote for AllanW to be on the panel.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Smoke on October 16, 2020, 01:24:21 PM
But we can all agree she's the best looker in that lot?

Careful, You'll have all the Karen Brady Simps out again.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 16, 2020, 01:36:15 PM
But we can all agree she's the best looker in that lot?

Careful, You'll have all the Karen Brady Simps out again.
;) ;D :)
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 16, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
I was having a scan of RAWK the other day and the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' fans were nowhere near as up in arms about the proposals - the general attitude seemed to be there's a lot of good stuff in there (which I think most agree on) but they were unsure/mildly opposed/not keen (as opposed to incandescent) about the power sitting with 6 clubs.  Kind of "it's not really ideal but hey-ho if that what it takes".

Many of them saw the scrapping of  the LC and Charity Shield and the reduction of the PL as positive in the sense it allows them to play more CL games and more of those lucrative international pre-season friendlies.  The attitude in some cases was that clubs like us should be grateful if included in overseas pre-season PL tournaments and allowed to play in the PL as the "variable filler" as one loveable scally put it (though there's obviously increasing fear among the elite that some of the "variable filler" - Leicester, Wolves, Everton etc. -  are getting a bit above their station and look capable of regularly challenging for the top 6 or will do eventually thanks to wealthy owners -i.e. us) . 

But in their ideal world view they would be the Harlem Globetrotters and we'd be the anonymous duffers they play their exhibition games against.  I can't think why we wouldn't snatch their hands off.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 16, 2020, 09:02:12 PM
But we can all agree she's the best looker in that lot?

Careful, You'll have all the Karen Brady Simps out again.

Which is the last comment along those lines you'll make on here.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 16, 2020, 09:03:14 PM
But we can all agree she's the best looker in that lot?

Careful, You'll have all the Karen Brady Simps out again.
;) ;D :)

And the same goes for you.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 16, 2020, 09:22:31 PM
But we can all agree she's the best looker in that lot?

Careful, You'll have all the Karen Brady Simps out again.
;) ;D :)


I think it is ok to call someone attractive 👍
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: OCD on October 16, 2020, 09:40:04 PM
I'm not sure RAWK would be a good gauge as it's likely to be full of arrogant arm chair fans who have never been to a game in their lives.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Ads on October 17, 2020, 08:47:10 AM
Yes agreed. If you want to know what the average Norwegian thinks or the man from the Cork omnibus, then RAWK is the place to visit.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on October 17, 2020, 09:08:18 AM
Well I do agree with one bit of the proposal. The Charity Shield can be scrapped.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 17, 2020, 10:30:14 AM
I'm not sure RAWK would be a good gauge as it's likely to be full of arrogant arm chair fans who have never been to a game in their lives.

Only as likely as it is that none of us are actually from Birmingham and we all live in the Shires.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: olaftab on October 17, 2020, 10:50:36 AM
Well I do agree with one bit of the proposal. The Charity Shield can be scrapped.

It was a few years ago ....replaced by The Community Shield ;). In my youngers days I always had high regard for that match. Winners of two prestigious domestic trophies setting off the new season but now I am not sure  it has any relevance.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 17, 2020, 11:25:15 AM
It's a pre-season friendly with a trophy attached. Not sure what the justification is for scrapping it if it's to be replaced with a different pre-season friendly. Seems a proposal entirely born out of greed* to me.


* As in, there's not even the slightest attempt to justify it on sporting grounds
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2020, 11:29:59 AM
But we can all agree she's the best looker in that lot?

Careful, You'll have all the Karen Brady Simps out again.
;) ;D :)


I think it is ok to call someone attractive 👍
maybe, but not  unattractive 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 17, 2020, 12:01:33 PM
It's okay to call someone unattractive but not to be a misogynist twat. How are you struggling with this? Did you just arrive on the forum from 1973?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 17, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
It's okay to call someone unattractive but not to be a misogynist twat. How are you struggling with this? Did you just arrive on the forum from 1973?
As long as its ok to call someone a twat, every one is happy.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 17, 2020, 12:15:48 PM
It's okay to call someone unattractive but not to be a misogynist twat. How are you struggling with this? Did you just arrive on the forum from 1973?
As long as its ok to call someone a twat, every one is happy.

You know full well what your problem is and you've been warned about it.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Damo70 on October 17, 2020, 12:39:19 PM
I find myself worrying less and less about Boris, Trump, Putin and Kim Wrong 'Un and worrying more about Gary Neville and the rest of 'The class of '92' and their clear attempt at world domination.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: aev on October 20, 2020, 02:04:55 PM
Sky story about a European Super League doing the rounds.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithe on October 20, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
Liverpool and ManUtd in talks to join new European Premier League according to Sky News.

And so it begins, not surprising after last weeks taster.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 20, 2020, 02:08:50 PM
Liverpool and ManUtd in talks to join new European Premier League according to Sky News.

And so it begins, not surprising after last weeks taster.

good,  off they fuck !
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: aev on October 20, 2020, 02:13:15 PM
16 or 18 teams, to run alongside with domestic league.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 20, 2020, 02:18:05 PM
They really did take those 6-1/7-2 beatings badly.

I thought Newcastle were the most pathetic when it came to crying over a defeat, but these two have knocked them into third place.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: aev on October 20, 2020, 02:23:11 PM
Ring fencing the elite European competition is a load of old shite, whether it is run in conjunction with the PL or not.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 20, 2020, 02:39:15 PM
"American owners in wanting to get rid of relegation shocker!"
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: AllanW on October 20, 2020, 02:48:09 PM
Liverpool and ManUtd in talks to join new European Premier League according to Sky News.

And so it begins, not surprising after last weeks taster.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11715/12109174/european-premier-league-liverpool-and-manchester-united-in-talks-for-fifa-backed-tournament
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 20, 2020, 02:49:03 PM
Founder clubs cannot be relegated for twenty years.

What absolute putrid scum these people really are.

No surprises those money grabbing parasites at FIFA are onboard.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 20, 2020, 02:50:52 PM
Founder clubs cannot be relegated for twenty years.

What absolute putrid scum these people really are.

No surprises those money grabbing parasites at FIFA are onboard.


They just do not get it , the jeopardy of relegation and promotion is part of it
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: TheMalandro on October 20, 2020, 02:59:24 PM
I think they are underestimating the mood of the average football fan in this country.

VAR, PPV and the various different platforms that you have to subscribe to, if you want to watch live football.

Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: richtheholtender on October 20, 2020, 03:27:09 PM
Let them go. Just leave the format the same when the door hits your arse on the way out. Be great to see some proper clubs back at the top of the game.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: OCD on October 20, 2020, 03:31:14 PM
Football's going to disappear up it's own arsehole at this rate. Greed is going to bite them.

If they want a 'European Premier League' then go but they shouldn't be able to take part in 2 leagues side by side. That's trying to have their cake and eat it.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: richtheholtender on October 20, 2020, 03:34:21 PM
In addition??? My bad
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 20, 2020, 03:39:03 PM
Let them go. Just leave the format the same when the door hits your arse on the way out. Be great to see some proper clubs back at the top of the game.

This isn't about letting them go. It's about replacing the CL with a full league format of 32/36 games and paying the clubs vast sums to participate. What will happen if this comes in, is the gap in finances between the top handful of clubs and the rest of their domestic leagues will become so vast that those clubs can run 2 full squads, a European and domestic one, allowing them to form galatico style squads in Europe and then buying anyone with potential into their league squad as jumped up reserve squad. Not only would that make the premier league less attractive (because the very best players wouldn't be in those squads) but you'd also have players like Jack being dragged away as 19-20 year olds from almost all of the clubs outside that 5 team elite.

I'd rather they just fucked off if I'm honest.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 20, 2020, 03:44:40 PM
I’d love to know the viewing figures for the existing Champions League. My view, albeit not particularly scientific, is that it’s fucking tedious before the latter part of the knockout stages. Is there really any appetite from viewers for a big league format?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 20, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
Not only do they want to create such a financial gulf that a team like Liverpool can never get battered by a team like us ever again, but they want to play 30 games a year taking up weekends, punting all the second rate domestic games to midweek, presumably.

So, they get to destroy both the competitive and the social side of football all in one go.

I'd probably be done with football if this goes through. Would be a shame to, effectively, punish Villa for other clubs' avarice. But I just can't be arsed to watch a "sport" devoid of any competitive element.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 20, 2020, 04:01:26 PM
This is a Fifa backed enterprise, not UEFA. UEFA should boot any clubs sgning up to this out of the Champions League with immediate effect.

The direction of travel is a world league. Not challenging it is to cut your own throat.

Domestic leagues are just too small to the money men behind this. History, culture, tradition has no paycheck and so is meaningless to them.  They will never be sated.

Fight fire with fire. Boot the clubs signing up out of domestic leagues too. Kick them out!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on October 20, 2020, 04:03:02 PM
I honestly think it would bomb. It's not just English fans, I don't think fans of German, Italian, French and Spanish clubs will watch it either. If I were a a fan of a German club other than Bayern Munich, I would be thinking great, let them fuck off and the rest of us can have a proper competition without them. Same in France with PSG, and Spain with Barcelona and Real gone.

I don't even think it will popular with their own local fans (yeah I know, but they do have some). I spoke to one of my shareholders today, who is a big Man U fan (been to all three European cup wins) and grew up in Salford. He really doesn't like the idea at all.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: frank black on October 20, 2020, 04:19:31 PM
I’d love to know the viewing figures for the existing Champions League. My view, albeit not particularly scientific, is that it’s fucking tedious before the latter part of the knockout stages. Is there really any appetite from viewers for a big league format?

Agreed, I believe the viewing figures for the majority of premier league fixtures doesn’t make good reading either. I don’t watch the CL until the knockout stages.

If they want to set this up I can’t see it being interesting unless new teams qualify like they can now with the CL. This invitation stuff is bollocks people will soon get bored with it. There needs to be jeopardy as well as rewards in football.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 20, 2020, 04:19:33 PM
Is acceptance of this tied in to a football league bailout, or have they skipped that irritation this time around?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 20, 2020, 04:20:03 PM
It's a stupid ploy by the red pair to try and get their own way in the Premier League.  Doubt it'd happen, but I'd stick by my suggestion that the Premier League come back and tell them that if they join a European Super League, they'll be replaced by Celtic & Rangers - with no way back except start at the bottom.  Likewise UEFA should tell them to do one if they think about joining.

Really need to teach these morons a harsh lesson.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 20, 2020, 04:23:38 PM
So utterly wipe out Scottish professional football? Bonus!
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: London Villan on October 20, 2020, 04:28:40 PM
A top PL match gets about 1million viewers. Champs League games hidden away on BT struggle to hit 250,000.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 20, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
So utterly wipe out Scottish professional football? Bonus!
Don't get me wrong ... I wouldn't want the ugly sisters anywhere near the Premier League.

However, promoting two "big" sides from the Championship (Middlesborough & Norwich?) doesn't carry the same level of threat.  They could laugh that off, since there's no club in England/Wales [outside the Premier League] that could have their level of support, or attract the TV audiences they do.

However .... Celtic & Rangers would.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Bobby Boy on October 20, 2020, 04:34:56 PM
What's the point of a league where the team in 17th play the team in 18th with 12 games to go? No relegation so no jeopardy.

Dead rubber after dead rubber. Who is genuinely going to give a shit about the majority of games?

I'm a big fan of American Football and while there's no relegation the poorest teams do get the pick of the best players in the college draft so there's always a sense of potential improvement.

This will be about as sterile as modern professional sport gets for the majority of the time.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 20, 2020, 04:51:01 PM
If all football in England is played under the auspices of the FA, where will they play their home fixtures?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Big Ming on October 20, 2020, 04:54:08 PM
Founder clubs cannot be relegated for twenty years.

What absolute putrid scum these people really are.

No surprises those money grabbing parasites at FIFA are onboard.


They just do not get it , the jeopardy of relegation and promotion is part of it

Stan says "it's like dogging....... the element of danger".
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: VILLA MOLE on October 20, 2020, 04:55:46 PM
I do not think these people who come up with these ideas know why fans go to football , and they probably do not care either .  it is all about overseas subscriptions   :-\
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Hookeysmith on October 20, 2020, 05:59:30 PM
I do not think these people who come up with these ideas know why fans go to football , and they probably do not care either .  it is all about overseas subscriptions   :-\

And you only have to look at modern shirt sponsors to see the influence that gambling has on the game. I would not be surprised to see 9am kick offs soon for the far East betting markets
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: p_ad on October 20, 2020, 06:07:58 PM
On you go , feck off
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 20, 2020, 06:11:21 PM
seems Man Utd and Liverpool haven't taken their hammerings the other sunday well... both can fuck off for me.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on October 20, 2020, 06:31:31 PM
La Liga president Javier Tebas said: "The authors of that idea - if they really exist, because there is nobody actually defending it - not only show a total ignorance of the organisation and customs of European and world football, but also a serious ignorance of the audiovisual rights markets.

"A project of this type will mean serious economic damage to the organisers themselves and to those entities that finance it, if they exist, because they´re never official. These underground projects only look good when drafted at a bar at five in the morning"

Shows what they think of it.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: CT on October 20, 2020, 06:39:16 PM
I do not think these people who come up with these ideas know why fans go to football , and they probably do not care either .  it is all about overseas subscriptions   :-\

Exactly right. Doesn’t matter if we’re there or not, they can stick some fake crowd noise on and just pretend.

I wonder if there are people who would currently be going to games, who may never go again the way things are heading.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Cliftonville Villlain on October 20, 2020, 06:49:27 PM
It'll bomb. Absolutely. So let them go and do their thing. And when it goes tits up let the greedy f*****s start of the bottom of the pyramid all over again. Would love to hear what the plastics would make of Nuneaton Borough.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 20, 2020, 06:49:28 PM
Fixture congestion suddenly stops being an issue again.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 20, 2020, 06:51:25 PM
I do not think these people who come up with these ideas know why fans go to football , and they probably do not care either .  it is all about overseas subscriptions   :-\

Exactly right. Doesn’t matter if we’re there or not, they can stick some fake crowd noise on and just pretend.

I wonder if there are people who would currently be going to games, who may never go again the way things are heading.
This is spot on. Investors see football as a commodity. Well it's not and it's about time fans of all clubs, including fans of those greedy clubs who want this, had their voices heard. It's our game now fuck off and find some other way of lining your pockets.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 20, 2020, 06:52:02 PM
Fixture congestion suddenly stops being an issue again.

As I said, the extra finances from this would mean the domestic leagues would be treated as as reserve leagues where they can 'blood' players with potential to bring through into their super league squad. Operating with 2 squad means all of them end up playing less football so yes, they wouldn't care about fixture congestion again.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Baldy on October 20, 2020, 06:57:52 PM
None of us like where there is potentially leading but is there anything we can do about it? When Wall Street and sadly some American owners get involved it is all about the money. Be very interesting to see Wes and Nassef's stance on this.

The unfortunate thing is The English Premier League is absolutely massive worldwide and is the biggest current platform for international stars to ply their trade.

If it is ultimately replaced by a European Premier League it will then attract the global tv market, revenues and the worlds best players. If we boycott UK grounds, subscriptions etc the loss in revenue wouldn't make a difference to our American friends. The UK revenue is small compared to the rest of the world!!

We need clubs like Liverpool, Man Utd etc to kick this into touch from the beginning or things might not bode well for the future for the English game.  >:(

 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 20, 2020, 06:58:47 PM
If you took all the top teams out of their respective leagues to form one European super league it would undoubtedly make huge money initially. But the glory hunting hordes who follow the top teams are used to winning. How long would they keep buying shirts, tv subscriptions etc when they don't win a trophy every year? It would be hilarious watching stadiums like Anfield, Old Trafford,Stamford Bridge etc slowly becoming emptied of the plastics after a few years of winning jack shit.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Baldy on October 20, 2020, 07:07:52 PM
Mr Edge, I hope you didn't answer your own question. USA doesn't care if we still pay to watch Liverpool, Man Utd getting their arse kicked every week. Once we pay, they don't care.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 20, 2020, 07:32:27 PM
My objection to this is nothing to do with Villa not being invited. I genuinely think it sounds incredibly dull and I wouldn’t want Villa involved. The basis of performing well domestically to qualify for European football underpins the game - and a certain degree of the joy when you qualify is playing different teams on an infrequent basis. It’s already a bit dull with the way the existing Champions League works, and that’s with a residual bit of surprise in respect of the teams you draw. The idea of an invitational league with pretty much no stakes sounds crushingly dull. I doubt after a couple of years it’d hold a global audience either.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 20, 2020, 07:38:01 PM
Mr Edge, I hope you didn't answer your own question. USA doesn't care if we still pay to watch Liverpool, Man Utd getting their arse kicked every week. Once we pay, they don't care.
I get that. What I'm saying is the interest in the competition would be short lived. "Fans" of the top clubs are used to their team winning trophies in their domestic leagues. They would all go long periods with nothing to celebrate. But fuck em the glory hunting bastards.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: The Edge on October 20, 2020, 07:39:15 PM
My objection to this is nothing to do with Villa not being invited. I genuinely think it sounds incredibly dull and I wouldn’t want Villa involved. The basis of performing well domestically to qualify for European football underpins the game - and a certain degree of the joy when you qualify is playing different teams on an infrequent basis. It’s already a bit dull with the way the existing Champions League works, and that’s with a residual bit of surprise in respect of the teams you draw. The idea of an invitational league with pretty much no stakes sounds crushingly dull. I doubt after a couple of years it’d hold a global audience either.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Baldy on October 20, 2020, 07:47:00 PM
Mr Edge, I hope you didn't answer your own question. USA doesn't care if we still pay to watch Liverpool, Man Utd getting their arse kicked every week. Once we pay, they don't care.
I get that. What I'm saying is the interest in the competition would be short lived. "Fans" of the top clubs are used to their team winning trophies in their domestic leagues. They would all go long periods with nothing to celebrate. But fuck em the glory hunting bastards.

That's true, fuck em the glory hunting bastards.  :)

 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2020, 09:24:09 PM
It is naive to think that the status Quo will remain. It was obvious as soon as the Big picture was anounced that a change was comming. The issue now is how united and how resoloute the rest of football is. The Premier League would be foolish to allow English teams to compete in both competitions but it is more than likely.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: CT on October 20, 2020, 09:27:28 PM
Just say they invent some “16 team super duper league”.

One of those humongous world brands will finish bottom.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 20, 2020, 09:28:14 PM
Just say they invent some “16 team super duper league”.

One of those humongous world brands will finish bottom.

And stay up.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2020, 09:31:57 PM
Just say they invent some “16 team super duper league”.

One of those humongous world brands will finish bottom.

Small Divisions. 2 go through to next round + wild cards.
There will be enough willing canon fodder to make up the numbers.
Secondary Tournament.
Games in different Continents.
Its going Global.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Baldy on October 20, 2020, 09:45:47 PM
Americanised Premier League. Probably be six 15 minute sessions, adverts galore, sponsors names on goal posts etc.

No thanks  >:(
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Billy Walker on October 20, 2020, 10:00:51 PM
None of us like where there is potentially leading but is there anything we can do about it? When Wall Street and sadly some American owners get involved it is all about the money. Be very interesting to see Wes and Nassef's stance on this.

The unfortunate thing is The English Premier League is absolutely massive worldwide and is the biggest current platform for international stars to ply their trade.

If it is ultimately replaced by a European Premier League it will then attract the global tv market, revenues and the worlds best players. If we boycott UK grounds, subscriptions etc the loss in revenue wouldn't make a difference to our American friends. The UK revenue is small compared to the rest of the world!!

We need clubs like Liverpool, Man Utd etc to kick this into touch from the beginning or things might not bode well for the future for the English game.  >:(

 

The world's best players will follow the money.  What's to stop a richer league/competition being set up, perhaps featuring North American, South American and other European club sides?   Anything is possible and I'm pretty sure the billionaire owners of clubs not invited to the Euro League will be thinking ahead about how best to maximise the potential of their own investments. 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: robleflaneur on October 20, 2020, 10:30:06 PM
Rather than reduce the size of the Prem,increase it.See how Man U,Liverpool and their friends like playing 80 games a season.Even with extra players they could struggle.
A straight knockout out European  competition would be more dramatic than their concoction
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 20, 2020, 10:44:18 PM
I agree that it would probably get pretty boring. I suspect the final 3rd of the season every year would become a couple of worthwhile games and a bunch of near friendlies when half the teams realise there's literally nothing to play for.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: algy on October 20, 2020, 11:17:04 PM
I agree that it would probably get pretty boring. I suspect the final 3rd of the season every year would become a couple of worthwhile games and a bunch of near friendlies when half the teams realise there's literally nothing to play for.
That's the thing ... in a 16 team league where you can't get relegated, you'll potentially start getting teams that have nothing to play for a quarter of the way in to the season, possibly even sooner. Without continental football giving 2nd-6th placed finishes some meaning, you only need to rack up 4 or 5 defeats and it's game over, nothing doing.

It's why the threat of withdrawing domestic & European (UEFA) football will be so potent - it makes it a massive gamble for any club to join it. As others have questioned, how long are any of these club's fans going to tolerate season after season of lower-mid-table finishes? Loads of utterly pointless games from November onwards?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 21, 2020, 01:12:46 AM
I’m baffled as to why any club would want to leave a league with more popularity than any other league in the world. Do they really think that this will sweep up all of football? I really cannot see this happening. It does though have the potential for Southgate to have another excuse not to include Jack. It’s like Football Brexit.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2020, 05:28:50 AM
That is the point, they want to stay in the Premier League and hedge their bets. The PL should make it clear it’s one or the other.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 21, 2020, 06:25:27 AM
Sorry, I’m a bit out of it at the moment, I didn’t read their full proposal. They should be told in no uncertain terms to f*** off over there and when they arrive f*** off a bit more.

Do what you must teams in red but don’t think you can dick around without historic leagues or competitions to suit your greed without consequences.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 21, 2020, 08:12:45 AM
What consequences? It's being backed by FIFA. They have the law on their side, not against them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Mister E on October 21, 2020, 08:36:56 AM
I’m baffled as to why any club would want to leave a league with more popularity than any other league in the world...
Again, following the money.
The interesting question is at what point we become 'eligible to join the elite. Given our current upward trajectory and the wealth of our owners, Villa will get to the point when the proposed Euro Premier League will accept that we are 'worthy' ... then we could all be somewhat conflicted.
Our first-team squad of 30-35 players compete in a closed-shop league we for global TV revenues, whilst our second fiddle play in the Football League ... a win-win?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: mr underhill on October 21, 2020, 08:56:51 AM
a big fat no. Leagues without the jeopardy of promotion and relegation are meaningless. Let Yanited and Liverpool fuck off by the rest of the PL telling them to fuck off.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
a big fat no. Leagues without the jeopardy of promotion and relegation are meaningless. Let Yanited and Liverpool fuck off by the rest of the PL telling them to fuck off.
Lets hope the other 15 clubs do.

The relationship between UEFA and FIFA  is going to be interesting, this has huge potential ramifications for International Football.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ktvillan on October 21, 2020, 11:35:51 AM
There's no way the PL and FA should allow them to play in both competitions.  It might be an initial blow to the PL if 3 or 4 of the more successful clubs left but it would recover, probably become fairer and more competitive, and offer more clubs the chance of winning something.  If they want a closed shop league that elevates them above everyone else then make the PL a closed shop to them.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2020, 11:57:51 AM
Even if we were invited I would want no part of it.
The next thing would be a shiny new souless Mecarno Kit stadium in the arse end of nowhere.

 
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: fredm on October 21, 2020, 12:14:23 PM
If this league is set up against the wishes of the FA, could any player participating be banned from playing for England?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 21, 2020, 01:08:16 PM
If this league is set up against the wishes of the FA, could any player participating be banned from playing for England?
If things get out of hand then all sorts of things could happen. The big battle will be UEFA and FIFA.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: paul_e on October 21, 2020, 01:21:48 PM
I could see UEFA banning players from it from the euros if that relationship breaks down but I don't think England would do it otherwise.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Somniloquism on October 21, 2020, 01:33:57 PM
What consequences? It's being backed by FIFA. They have the law on their side, not against them.

So the European league is supposedly backed by the World Football Authority but not the Regions Authority. I do wonder if FIFA are involved to reduce UEFA's Power as well.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Scott Nielsen on October 21, 2020, 02:15:27 PM
What consequences? It's being backed by FIFA. They have the law on their side, not against them.

So the European league is supposedly backed by the World Football Authority but not the Regions Authority. I do wonder if FIFA are involved to reduce UEFA's Power as well.

I doubt FIFA is actually involved. Maybe some individual there but not the organization - an open civil war with UEFA makes little sense.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 21, 2020, 02:54:59 PM
What consequences? It's being backed by FIFA. They have the law on their side, not against them.

So the European league is supposedly backed by the World Football Authority but not the Regions Authority. I do wonder if FIFA are involved to reduce UEFA's Power as well.

I doubt FIFA is actually involved. Maybe some individual there but not the organization - an open civil war with UEFA makes little sense.

Until FIFA come out and make their interest in this idea known I will reserve the right to say it‘s nonsense unless brown envelopes are being spread here there and everywhere In FIFA HQ.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Percy McCarthy on October 21, 2020, 03:15:58 PM
I’m baffled as to why any club would want to leave a league with more popularity than any other league in the world. Do they really think that this will sweep up all of football? I really cannot see this happening. It does though have the potential for Southgate to have another excuse not to include Jack. It’s like Football Brexit.

That’s over-stating the stupidity of it a bit, but you know what happened with Brexit?
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: eamonn on October 21, 2020, 04:04:16 PM
Opinion piece on the "bottom 14" being just as bad in their own way...

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/ken-early-project-big-picture-endangers-cushy-position-of-bottom-14-1.4384523?mode=amp
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: manic-road on October 22, 2020, 06:33:32 PM
Well if Real Madrid were to go into a European league it would stop the likes of Shakhtar Donetsk going there and beating them at home. How dare these smaller clubs competing with the so called giants of the game.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 23, 2020, 01:07:50 AM
But, surely, if lots of players at top clubs are banned from playing for England, there's a serious chance that Grealish might get picked!

Presumably, the level of opponent will have to be right, though.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 23, 2020, 07:22:30 AM
Americanised Premier League. Probably be six 15 minute sessions, adverts galore, sponsors names on goal posts etc.

No thanks  >:(

https://youtu.be/uQ82aMQONvc
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 23, 2020, 07:24:12 AM
I could see UEFA banning players from it from the euros if that relationship breaks down but I don't think England would do it otherwise.

And Jack still wouldn’t get a start.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: Baldy on October 23, 2020, 09:58:08 AM
Americanised Premier League. Probably be six 15 minute sessions, adverts galore, sponsors names on goal posts etc.

No thanks  >:(

https://youtu.be/uQ82aMQONvc

Thanks Mr Kippavvilla2, you hit the nail right on the head.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: garyellis on December 01, 2020, 01:50:55 PM
It's not going away

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55131356
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: fredm on December 01, 2020, 04:24:53 PM
What the "Big 6" are scared of is that teams like Villa (and Newcastle if their buy out goes through) are coming along and may well push one of them out of the cabal.  They are trying to protect their own position before this can happen.
Title: Re: Premier League reform proposals
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 02, 2020, 02:05:25 AM
And Leicester and Wolves, of course.
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