Ollie Watkins

[Dave]

“Since his Villa debut on 15 September 2020, only Mohamed Salah (159) and Erling Haaland (157) have scored more goals than Watkins in all competitions.”

Imagine not enjoying this.

I think those numbers from those 2 also skew perceptions for other forwards.

A bit like how Messi and Ronaldo ruined the perception of what footballers should be achieving for a whole generation of new fans.

[Smirker]

Indeed - and it’s not a difficult conclusion to draw, Watkins is very clearly better than Tammy. He’s been the striker for a team who has consistently competed for Champions League places in the Premier League for the last three years. Tammy isn’t at that level, he’s a useful squad option - that’s what he is.

You can say that when Tammy has been given the same patience and run in the side Watkins has.

Until then, you don't know.

If Tammy had played as much as Watkins this season I'm certain he would have a much better goal return than 13 goals in 46 games.

[Dave]

If Tammy had played as much as Watkins this season I'm certain he would have a much better goal return than 13 goals in 46 games.

Based on what?

Abraham's last few full seasons have been 10 in 44 for AC Milan, 1 in 12 for Roma (before getting injured), 9 in 54 for Roma and then his one excellent season in Italy in 21-22, 27 in 53 for Roma.

In comparison, Malen (who wasn't exactly bullying Watkins out of the side with his performances in the first half of the season) has 11 in 14 for Roma since January. So Abraham's scoring significantly fewer goals in a league that the guy we decided wasn't quite good enough is now tearing apart.

There's very little in either Abraham's performances for us since he joined or what he's been doing for the few seasons prior to suggest that he's suddenly going to become prolific.

[PaulWinch again]

I come back to the point, we can debate it all you like but Smirker you must at least be a bit self-aware that your dislike of Ollie is so disproportionate. But ultimately forget hypotheticals Unai sees them in training all the time, as he has done with a number of strikers and Ollie is first choice every time. He sees more than all of us and has shown he’s quite good at this.

Tammy is decent, there is a career load of evidence to show he’s not as good as Ollie.

[PeterWithesShin]

Malen is having a Bent effect on Roma. He scores a fair few but they've been shit since he joined.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Erm..except they haven't.

[Dave]

Erm..except they haven't.

They've not been shit, but they've gone from winning most of their matches before he joined to four wins in fourteen since.

[PeterWithesShin]

They won 4 out of 5 before he first played, as Dave says they've won 4 of 14 since then. They've won 3 games in which he scored.

[Smirker]

If Tammy had played as much as Watkins this season I'm certain he would have a much better goal return than 13 goals in 46 games.

Based on what?

Abraham's last few full seasons have been 10 in 44 for AC Milan, 1 in 12 for Roma (before getting injured), 9 in 54 for Roma and then his one excellent season in Italy in 21-22, 27 in 53 for Roma.

In comparison, Malen (who wasn't exactly bullying Watkins out of the side with his performances in the first half of the season) has 11 in 14 for Roma since January. So Abraham's scoring significantly fewer goals in a league that the guy we decided wasn't quite good enough is now tearing apart.

There's very little in either Abraham's performances for us since he joined or what he's been doing for the few seasons prior to suggest that he's suddenly going to become prolific.

And I get accused of selective stats 

Based on the fact he's a better finisher. Give him the chances Watkins gets and he'll outscore him.

His record isn't that different to Ollie's, but he's had way more disruption to deal with. Give him a run under Unai and watch him go 

[Dave]

If Tammy had played as much as Watkins this season I'm certain he would have a much better goal return than 13 goals in 46 games.

Based on what?

Abraham's last few full seasons have been 10 in 44 for AC Milan, 1 in 12 for Roma (before getting injured), 9 in 54 for Roma and then his one excellent season in Italy in 21-22, 27 in 53 for Roma.

In comparison, Malen (who wasn't exactly bullying Watkins out of the side with his performances in the first half of the season) has 11 in 14 for Roma since January. So Abraham's scoring significantly fewer goals in a league that the guy we decided wasn't quite good enough is now tearing apart.

There's very little in either Abraham's performances for us since he joined or what he's been doing for the few seasons prior to suggest that he's suddenly going to become prolific.

And I get accused of selective stats 

Based on the fact he's a better finisher. Give him the chances Watkins gets and he'll outscore him.

His record isn't that different to Ollie's, but he's had way more disruption to deal with. Give him a run under Unai and watch him go 

I'd say that looking at the last five years is the exact opposite of selective. But if there's a wider set of numbers you think we should look at, I'm happy to take it on board. If he's that much of a better finisher, why was he scoring 9 in 54 in Italy before he got injured?

Stamping your feet up and down and whining that he's better just because you say so, isn't a particularly coherent argument.

[Smirker]

I never said he was better, I said he deserves a chance (a proper run of games like Watkins has been given even when he's stunk the pitch up for months) to prove he can be. And I don't think anyone is even disputing he's a better finisher.

[PeterWithesShin]

He doesn't deserve to starting ahead of Ollie though. Unless you think Ollie should be dropped for scoring 7 in 11 starts since Tammy arrived.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Erm..except they haven't.

They've not been shit, but they've gone from winning most of their matches before he joined to four wins in fourteen since.

Since he joined, 16 games they've won 6, drawn a few (Milan, Juventus, , Panathinaikos, Bologna and Napoli) and only lost to Genoa, Como, Inter (obviously) and Bologna after extra time. Malen has scored what, 11 times since he joined them?

Oh and you may want to see their injury list this year. Even Spurs would never complain again.

[Dave]

I never said he was better, I said he deserves a chance (a proper run of games like Watkins has been given even when he's stunk the pitch up for months) to prove he can be. And I don't think anyone is even disputing he's a better finisher.

I don't think "better finisher" is really all that quantifiable. A worse finisher with better movement might outscore a better finisher with worse movement. They're not really rankable qualities.

I'd definitely dispute that Abraham would score more goals in our team than Watkins, because nothing in their recent careers gives any indication that he would.

[cdbearsfan]

Seems a bit churlish to suggest that his scoring loads of goals is to blame for their decline.