VAR

[Risso]

As others have said, video technology works well in rugby and even more so in cricket, because breaks in play are far more common. And in cricket they have the added bonus that 90% of it comes to down a relatively small bit of pitch, with only one person to concentrate on.

The problem with football is that decisions are very often highly subjective, and video replays can often make a passage of play look completely different to normal speed.

That said, last night was just a disgrace. It was as clear a penalty as you're ever going to see. The only excuse the ref could have was if he didn't see it, but then he's got the assistant ref to help as well. But for however many people are on VAR to look at that several times over and say "not a foul", well, the mind boggles. At the very least they should have sent the ref to have another look at it.

[dave shelley]

I really hate the level of abuse and disrespect the ref's get from players, but I can understand their frustration when they're elite players and the games being controlled by an utter cretin. I'm surprised O'Neil managed to keep his cool when getting booked and not end up getting a red.

A lot of focus on the divs in VAR but the ref was looking straight at it as well, what's his excuse.

Abuse and disrespect of the referee is in his own hands to control.  If he's abused and he does nothing about it, then he will continue to be abused.  If a referee gains a reputation for coming down hard on personal abuse it won't be too long before he receives very little.  It's up to themselves.  If you don't like headaches, stop banging your head off the wall.

[lovejoy]

They should have just dragged them out and let Wolves take the pen. Apologies and standing down reds doesn’t redress the issue that MUtd have 2 too many points.

[Somniloquism]

The referee on the field will make a decision based on one angle around 5-6ft above the playing surface, with potential other players in the way and at speed. The referee should have seen it I wouldn't have fully blamed him. However, for VAR to state there was no clear error means he told them why he didn't think it was a penalty AND they saw the same thing. This is the conversations that need to be broadcast like they have in Rugby. Their refs are miked so they commentate their decisions out to the crowd. The recent Women's World Cup have trialled something but not the correct something. For example they never stated why they considered Bronze offside when in theory it was the second phase of play, just that it was offside (I suspected the Mings rule of defender only played it to bronze under pressure).

So we don't need the stop start of Rugby, just the addition if hearing the refs decisions as that would definitely put paid to any claims of bias and cheating. (So maybe why they haven't done it). As for the stop start, the incident being judged on was stopped anyway so sending the ref to the monitor wouldn't have delayed it. Especially as he was by the touchline to book O'Neill.

[Toronto Villa]

Decisions like last night call into question the integrity of the game and more specifically the integrity of specific individuals. These are supposed professionals who have a trained eye to quickly make decisions or review initial decisions to find obvious fault. I am finding it hard to believe, even if the on pitch refs missed it that with the help of multiple camera angles they could have found anything other than a penalty. And then for that prick Man U manager to see it the only way you knew he would, without a shred of honesty, well that’s another conversation.

[danno]

Decisions like last night call into question the integrity of the game and more specifically the integrity of specific individuals. These are supposed professionals who have a trained eye to quickly make decisions or review initial decisions to find obvious fault. I am finding it hard to believe, even if the on pitch refs missed it that with the help of multiple camera angles they could have found anything other than a penalty. And then for that prick Man U manager to see it the only way you knew he would, without a shred of honesty, well that’s another conversation.

You’ve hit upon something there, I don’t get why he can’t just say “we got very lucky there”. It’ as if he fears by admitting the referee made an error that favoured him, he’s going to get a dodgy penalty given against him next match.

[Toronto Villa]

Exactly. We know decisions across the course of a season go both ways. So he could have easily said, I didn’t see it clearly at the time. I’ve looked since and we got lucky. Maybe we will be less fortunate in the future or decisions at this level need to be better. But to blatant say it wasn’t a penalty is just straight up nonsense

[artvandelay]

I disagree that video technology works well in other sports. In rugby union there can be ridiculously long waits for decisions on whether there was downward pressure, mitigating factors or indeed any other technicality of the law that the average fan doesn't understand being breached. In NFL there's similar agonising over whether a players foot is touching the paint. In GAA last year hawkeye was just completely wrong so they stopped using it.

It works particularly badly in football because it's a fluid game decided by relatively few moments of high importance.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I'd suggest that if you think video referrals don't work in rugby it's because you don't know the game. At the very highest level the pace and power is so extreme that the game relies on the breaks in play it provides.

That said I agree that the delays for things like checking for a foot in touch or grounding can feel a bit long but it's generally a conversation between the officials that you can hear (on comms at home or with a little radio thing in the ground) that helps the decisions normally turn out correct.

I'm both a player and spectator, I meant from the point of the average spectator who doesn't know the intricacies of the rules, the elongated pauses aren't entertaining. You're also right in that the sport has evolved around its rules as the TMO has been in place for a long time now. It's not infallible though, Farrell's TMO red card has been rescinded on appeal, that's a TMO 'error' (I thought it was a red based on the current rules) that could completely change the game. Thankfully this was a relatively meaningless warm up match, but all these years down the line, massive mistakes are being made by the TMO so it's not exactly 'working'

[Holte132]

Chris Bascombe
Thu, 24 August 2023 at 10:27 pm BST

Mike Dean admits he failed to intervene on Var decision to protect his ‘mate’ Anthony Taylor


Former Premier League referee Mike Dean failed to intervene on a major Var call because he didn’t want to cause his friend Anthony Taylor any ‘grief’, he has revealed.

In a remarkably candid admission, Dean said he made the “pathetic” call at the climax of the 2-2 draw between Tottenham and Chelsea last August.

Cristian Romero pulled Marc Cucurella’s hair seconds before Harry Kane’s 96th minute equaliser, and Dean acknowledged that in the heat of the moment he made a bad choice not to suggest on-field official Taylor consider a sending off offence.

“I missed the stupid hair pull at Chelsea versus Tottenham which was pathetic from my point of view,” Dean told Up Front with Simon Jordan.

“It’s one of them where if I had my time again, what would I do? I’d send Anthony [Taylor] to the screen. I think I knew if I did send him to the screen … he’s cautioned both managers, he’s had a hell of a game, it’s been such a tough game end to end.

“I said to Anthony afterwards: ‘I just didn’t want to send you to the screen after what has gone on in the game’. I didn’t want to send him up because he is a mate as well as a referee and I think I didn’t want to send him up because I didn’t want any more grief than he already had.

“Anthony, he is big and bald and ugly enough to know if he is going to the screen he is going to the screen for a reason. If someone pulls their hair now it’s dead easy. It’s just a brainwave by me, a really bad call by me, and it kind of affected me as Var going forward.”

Dean’s remarks underline the human frailties which have often undermined the new technology. He was subsequently stood down from the next Premier League games and later decided he did not wish to continue as a video assistant referee.

“Probably I missed a few games because you get taken out of the limelight,” he added.

“That was a major error. If they don’t score from the corner it is not as big an issue. But I knew full well then I would be stood down the week after. I asked to take a bit of time off because it wasn’t for me.

“I used to get in the car on a Friday and was dreading Saturday. I was thinking, ‘I hope nothing happens’. I used to be petrified sitting in the chair.”

[Monty]

This is what we're dealing with. And people still treat the decision making in England as unimpeachably honest?

[astonvilla82]

Chris Bascombe
Thu, 24 August 2023 at 10:27 pm BST

Mike Dean admits he failed to intervene on Var decision to protect his ‘mate’ Anthony Taylor


Former Premier League referee Mike Dean failed to intervene on a major Var call because he didn’t want to cause his friend Anthony Taylor any ‘grief’, he has revealed.

In a remarkably candid admission, Dean said he made the “pathetic” call at the climax of the 2-2 draw between Tottenham and Chelsea last August.

Cristian Romero pulled Marc Cucurella’s hair seconds before Harry Kane’s 96th minute equaliser, and Dean acknowledged that in the heat of the moment he made a bad choice not to suggest on-field official Taylor consider a sending off offence.

“I missed the stupid hair pull at Chelsea versus Tottenham which was pathetic from my point of view,” Dean told Up Front with Simon Jordan.

“It’s one of them where if I had my time again, what would I do? I’d send Anthony [Taylor] to the screen. I think I knew if I did send him to the screen … he’s cautioned both managers, he’s had a hell of a game, it’s been such a tough game end to end.

“I said to Anthony afterwards: ‘I just didn’t want to send you to the screen after what has gone on in the game’. I didn’t want to send him up because he is a mate as well as a referee and I think I didn’t want to send him up because I didn’t want any more grief than he already had.

“Anthony, he is big and bald and ugly enough to know if he is going to the screen he is going to the screen for a reason. If someone pulls their hair now it’s dead easy. It’s just a brainwave by me, a really bad call by me, and it kind of affected me as Var going forward.”

Dean’s remarks underline the human frailties which have often undermined the new technology. He was subsequently stood down from the next Premier League games and later decided he did not wish to continue as a video assistant referee.

“Probably I missed a few games because you get taken out of the limelight,” he added.

“That was a major error. If they don’t score from the corner it is not as big an issue. But I knew full well then I would be stood down the week after. I asked to take a bit of time off because it wasn’t for me.

“I used to get in the car on a Friday and was dreading Saturday. I was thinking, ‘I hope nothing happens’. I used to be petrified sitting in the chair.”

So in other words he wasn't doing his job that he was employed to do, he's up his own arse anyway

[Drummond]

As if the world couldn't detest Dean any more.

It shows exactly why it shouldn't be fellow officials doing VAR.

[Chris Smith]

Even with the technology VAR still requires human intervention. That is inevitably going to make the system subject to both conscious and unconscious bias. I suspect Dean is only voicing something that many more have been guilty of without admitting to it.

[Gareth]

As if the world couldn't detest Dean any more.

It shows exactly why it shouldn't be fellow officials doing VAR.

Exactly….it’s a role in itself and shouldn’t be done amongst pals having a day off from thinking about.

Should be independent of referees

[pablo_picasso]

As if the world couldn't detest Dean any more.

It shows exactly why it shouldn't be fellow officials doing VAR.

Boom. This...

Independent & totally separate officials should be doing VAR.

Cant we hire some from other countries or something?