VAR

[Chap]

Change.org petition. 15k signatures so far in a few days. Probably won’t come to much but worth a try.

https://chng.it/DZpcL4PPVq

[Ad@m]

The earpieces are available at every ground I've been too for the last 5-6 years. The PA version is less consistent but I think that's ok. I reckon you could pretty easily have a phone app that either plays the audio or provides a transcript in near real time.

I share some of the concerns Risso has with the difference between crowds means football fans are less likely to accept decisions but I'd still like to see the league try a more transparent approach to officiating before saying the concept of VAR is a failure.

What do you mean by fans not "accepting" decisions?  I just don't buy the view that football fans are animals who can't be trusted to control their emotions. That's the logic that put fences up at stadia and taking them down didn't result in mass disruption.

Plus, I struggle with the idea that fans who already get incredibly frustrated by decisions going against their team which they don't understand ("you're not fit to referee" chanted by 40,000 fans on Saturday for example), would be any more frustrated by having that decision explained to them. Again, that logic only stands if you believe football fans are inherently irrational. I don't buy that.

Anyway, if it's a genuine fear they can trial it first and I'm totally convinced that it would improve the situation, not worsen it.

[Flamingo Lane]

I also think that the linesman prematurely waving his flag for offside at our game was the worst piece of officiating highlighted at games last weekend, since doing him that was totally contrary to what their instructions are, and nowt to do with subjective judgment and error.

[Lastfootstamper]

Well, it kind of was down to a subjective error on the assistant's part, as Coutinho clearly wasn't offside, and perhaps more pertinently hadn't 'looked' offside at any point in the build-up, at least not to anyone with eyes.

Anyway, has there been any announcement yet as to when the inevitable raft of fresh guidelines will come into force to make football even shitter for the officials and match-going public?

[chrisw1]

The earpieces are available at every ground I've been too for the last 5-6 years. The PA version is less consistent but I think that's ok. I reckon you could pretty easily have a phone app that either plays the audio or provides a transcript in near real time.

I share some of the concerns Risso has with the difference between crowds means football fans are less likely to accept decisions but I'd still like to see the league try a more transparent approach to officiating before saying the concept of VAR is a failure.

What do you mean by fans not "accepting" decisions?  I just don't buy the view that football fans are animals who can't be trusted to control their emotions. That's the logic that put fences up at stadia and taking them down didn't result in mass disruption.

Plus, I struggle with the idea that fans who already get incredibly frustrated by decisions going against their team which they don't understand ("you're not fit to referee" chanted by 40,000 fans on Saturday for example), would be any more frustrated by having that decision explained to them. Again, that logic only stands if you believe football fans are inherently irrational. I don't buy that.

Anyway, if it's a genuine fear they can trial it first and I'm totally convinced that it would improve the situation, not worsen it.

Unfortunately I think you are being far to kind.

There's a significant minority of tanked up aresholes at any match.  Showing controversial incidents in slow motion and trying to listen to a referees reasons would just be a spark we don't need.  I simply don't have faith in ALL football fans to behave in the way you hope they would, and it only takes a few to create an incident.  Also, the noise created whilst the ref is trying to come to a rational decision would be deafening and make it much harder for him to be objective.

Certainly they could give a bit more detail after the event, but I do think piping the ref mike into the stadium would be a mistake.

[Pat Mustard]

The very fact that these arguments are going on is surely the proof that VAR categorically hasn't worked.  It was supposed to put an end to games being decided on controversial decisions - instead people are talking even more incessantly about the bad calls that are still happening week in and week out.

No matter what you do, referee and assistant calls are still subjective.  We all know that from week to week we are going to have refs who officiate the game differently - some will let things go, others blow the whistle non-stop. It's the way it's always been and VAR hasn't put a stop to that.

The only thing VAR is doing is creating even more content for broadcasters, which at this stage seems to be the main purpose.  Let's still be taking about the weekend's controversies on SSN for the whole week in the build up to the next round of fixtures - now the window is closed, they have to have something to fill 24hrs of rolling football news.  In the meantime, it's sucking the joy out of celebrating a goal, and leaving us all feel even more aggrieved when decisions inevitably go the way of the chosen few as there is no longer the excuse of it just being down to the ref on the pitch.

In conclusion, VAR is shit and we should just get rid!

[Abbeyfealeavfc]

The very fact that these arguments are going on is surely the proof that VAR categorically hasn't worked.  It was supposed to put an end to games being decided on controversial decisions - instead people are talking even more incessantly about the bad calls that are still happening week in and week out.

No matter what you do, referee and assistant calls are still subjective.  We all know that from week to week we are going to have refs who officiate the game differently - some will let things go, others blow the whistle non-stop. It's the way it's always been and VAR hasn't put a stop to that.

The only thing VAR is doing is creating even more content for broadcasters, which at this stage seems to be the main purpose.  Let's still be taking about the weekend's controversies on SSN for the whole week in the build up to the next round of fixtures - now the window is closed, they have to have something to fill 24hrs of rolling football news.  In the meantime, it's sucking the joy out of celebrating a goal, and leaving us all feel even more aggrieved when decisions inevitably go the way of the chosen few as there is no longer the excuse of it just being down to the ref on the pitch.

In conclusion, VAR is shit and we should just get rid!

This 100%.

[LeeB]

The very fact that these arguments are going on is surely the proof that VAR categorically hasn't worked.  It was supposed to put an end to games being decided on controversial decisions - instead people are talking even more incessantly about the bad calls that are still happening week in and week out.

No matter what you do, referee and assistant calls are still subjective.  We all know that from week to week we are going to have refs who officiate the game differently - some will let things go, others blow the whistle non-stop. It's the way it's always been and VAR hasn't put a stop to that.

The only thing VAR is doing is creating even more content for broadcasters, which at this stage seems to be the main purpose.  Let's still be taking about the weekend's controversies on SSN for the whole week in the build up to the next round of fixtures - now the window is closed, they have to have something to fill 24hrs of rolling football news.  In the meantime, it's sucking the joy out of celebrating a goal, and leaving us all feel even more aggrieved when decisions inevitably go the way of the chosen few as there is no longer the excuse of it just being down to the ref on the pitch.

In conclusion, VAR is shit and we should just get rid!

This 100%.

I couldn't agree more

[chrisw1]

At some point they'll get it right and when they do I think you'll change your minds.  But I accept we're miles from that at the moment.

I think people forget how often we used to have truly shit decisions before VAR and how much those also favoured the big teams. The reality is now we are probably having less shit decisions, but those that do happen are really under a microscope.

[Chris Smith]

At some point they'll get it right and when they do I think you'll change your minds.  But I accept we're miles from that at the moment.

I think people forget how often we used to have truly shit decisions before VAR and how much those also favoured the big teams. The reality is now we are probably having less shit decisions, but those that do happen are really under a microscope.

It’s added absolutely nothing to the game for match going fans. I think we still get just as many shit decisions with the added bonus than they spend several minutes getting there which gives SSN something to fill their programmes and a break for armchair fans to get a beer from the fridge.

[chrisw1]

At some point they'll get it right and when they do I think you'll change your minds.  But I accept we're miles from that at the moment.

I think people forget how often we used to have truly shit decisions before VAR and how much those also favoured the big teams. The reality is now we are probably having less shit decisions, but those that do happen are really under a microscope.

It’s added absolutely nothing to the game for match going fans. I think we still get just as many shit decisions with the added bonus than they spend several minutes getting there which gives SSN something to fill their programmes and a break for armchair fans to get a beer from the fridge.

As I said, it's miles from being right at the moment.

[Lastfootstamper]

At some point they'll get it right and when they do I think you'll change your minds.  But I accept we're miles from that at the moment.

I think people forget how often we used to have truly shit decisions before VAR and how much those also favoured the big teams. The reality is now we are probably having less shit decisions, but those that do happen are really under a microscope.

So, in your subjective opinion, what does it look like once they "get it right"? What developments do we need to look out for by which to measure its progression towards that end point?

[chrisw1]

At some point they'll get it right and when they do I think you'll change your minds.  But I accept we're miles from that at the moment.

I think people forget how often we used to have truly shit decisions before VAR and how much those also favoured the big teams. The reality is now we are probably having less shit decisions, but those that do happen are really under a microscope.

So, in your subjective opinion, what does it look like once they "get it right"? What developments do we need to look out for by which to measure its progression towards that end point?

I've said before, but I think the key thing is to put it back in the hands of the ref.  Have several monotors around the ground and the ref should be able to say 'I think that's a pen but let me just have another quick look to double check'  or the VAR should be able to say, 'take a quick look at this to double check,' without the ref feeling like he's been called to the headmasters office.  The conversations should be recorded and available to live tv audiences (as with rugby)

I think they've already made big strides with offside now they have the margin for error.  They are trialling a more automated system in the UCL where the lines are drawn automatically.  The human input will then just need to be 'was there intererenace with play' etc.  It's a work in progress but it should iron out the riciculous errors we used to see pre VAR (and are now still seeing with VAR due to human error)

In short, I don't think any other sport has been diminished by techology in refereeing decisions, once the systems have been ironed out.  I don't think football is as unique as people think it is and once they get it right it will improve the game, just like it has in cricket, rugby, hockey, tennis etc. (and yes I know these are different more start stop sports, but I still think it can be done)

[LeeB]

Were there ever really that many offsides that were critically wrong? I can't think of many down the years involving us.

[chrisw1]

Were there ever really that many offsides that were critically wrong? I can't think of many down the years involving us.

Every single week.