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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 343945 times)

Offline eamonn

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1455 on: October 18, 2020, 11:14:49 AM »
In Liverpool's case yesterday, wasn't it the arm of a player which was offside in both incidents? Just like it was one of their player's armpits that was ruled offside when they scored against us at VP last year? I'm all for laughing at the Redshite but if those decisions were against us I'd be well-miffed.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1456 on: October 18, 2020, 11:25:11 AM »
He's miles offside....


Offline stubbsyandy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1457 on: October 18, 2020, 11:26:54 AM »
In Liverpool's case yesterday, wasn't it the arm of a player which was offside in both incidents? Just like it was one of their player's armpits that was ruled offside when they scored against us at VP last year? I'm all for laughing at the Redshite but if those decisions were against us I'd be well-miffed.
Why can’t it be based on the position of feet on the ground? That would make more sense

Offline gpbarr

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1458 on: October 18, 2020, 11:28:29 AM »
VAR is contributing to the ruin of the game. But it's no more than the game deserves - for years referees bore the brunt of overwhelming criticism for every mistake they made, and it became such an issue that VAR eventually became inevitable. And as we are now seeing, its no better and, because of the delays and uncertainty, as prone to critique at anything that went before it.

One only need look at the NFL here in US - more accepted because its been used for longer but standard of refereeing has dropped in last decade and the criticism is as loud as ever.

Yesterdays decision in the Liverpool game was ridiculous, and sums up everything thats bad about the current situation. VAR was supposed to be used for "clear and obvious" - if thats the definition of "clear and obvious", I'm Nora Batty!

Either it needs to be scrapped, let referees referee, and accept they (like players) make mistakes. Or make it clear that it can only be used for an obvious error which means all borderline decisions stand.     

Offline gpbarr

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1459 on: October 18, 2020, 11:29:53 AM »
Oh and another point - why can't the game introduce "citing" like Rugby Union. Pickford should have been cited and retrospectively red carded. Outrageous tackle that has put VVD out for 8 months, and had that been against a Villa player, there would be a riot on here.

Online Nev

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1460 on: October 18, 2020, 11:30:57 AM »
Oh and another point - why can't the game introduce "citing" like Rugby Union. Pickford should have been cited and retrospectively red carded. Outrageous tackle that has put VVD out for 8 months, and had that been against a Villa player, there would be a riot on here.

A rule that would do more good for the game than VAR can possibly do.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1461 on: October 18, 2020, 11:35:18 AM »
Oh and another point - why can't the game introduce "citing" like Rugby Union. Pickford should have been cited and retrospectively red carded. Outrageous tackle that has put VVD out for 8 months, and had that been against a Villa player, there would be a riot on here.

A rule that would do more good for the game than VAR can possibly do.
completely agree.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1462 on: October 18, 2020, 11:42:43 AM »
In Liverpool's case yesterday, wasn't it the arm of a player which was offside in both incidents? Just like it was one of their player's armpits that was ruled offside when they scored against us at VP last year? I'm all for laughing at the Redshite but if those decisions were against us I'd be well-miffed.

We have had those. Wesley's heel when he was heading away from goal, in the same game that Mee did him.

Offline Russ aka Big Nose

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1463 on: October 18, 2020, 12:02:10 PM »
A lot winds me up about VAR:
1. the delays
2. focusing on the seemingly trivial - 2mm offside when dangerous tackles are missed
3. flaws and subjectivity - accuracy around when the ball is played and a human judging where an armpit is
4. going way beyond the correction of the 'clear and obvious' etc.

But I think it follows inevitably from decades of new interpretations of the laws seemingly every year.

The beauty, the joy, in football comes from it being easy - easy to play and easy to understand.

This is not a sentimental wish to see a return to the 'jumpers for goalposts' era as it's great to have better pitches, facilities/equipment, and for players to be fitter and technically better.

The reason, for me, why I welcome these is that they 'add' something because they eliminate the chance of something preventing a simple and even contest - the most obvious being a decent pitch with even bounce etc.

Endlessly fiddling with the interpretation of the laws introduces complexity that to me diminishes what is at the heart of the appeal of football - it is a simple game.

Another reason why the game is moving in the wrong direction, for me, is that the administrators are preoccupied with trying to draw up rules and interpretations for every situation, rather than trusting the judgement of match officials.

Then they compound the problem by insisting officials following the 'guidance' even when a particular circumstance might not 'fit' and then they believe they support officials by being reluctant to change poor decisions - when that just serves to undermine confidence in them and the game. Even when officials know something is 'wrong' they know if they don't rigidly apply the guidance, they will be marked down.

I would like to see a commission of players, coaches and maybe even fans representatives considering how the game can be simplified by removing rules, interpretations and guidance rather than endlessly adding to it. As a coach, pretty much every season, The FA issues a raft of new things to consider and I can't remember the last time I thought something was a benefit rather than unnecessary meddling.

Finally, football administrators (FIFA, UEFA and The FA) are too blinkered to use and adapt what works well in other sports, e.g. time off/time on in rugby to prevent time wasting and longer periods of advantage when it is clear that 'advantage is being played', citing players etc.

I still love football, though the administrators make that harder than it should be.

Offline RamboandBruno

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1464 on: October 18, 2020, 01:35:07 PM »
I‘’ll nip the quotathon now.  The “bigger” teams being denied victories in the last minute because of var is exactly what’s good about it. The amount of penalties given and not given against them over the years is scandalous. It would be a bit rich of them to use technology as an excuse for them not being in the top four. One very good outcome of Var is that it has levelled things up. Even the bigger teams are suffering it’s impact.
So be because the use of VAR and rules around it seemingly even out terrible decisions, it’s good. Just nonsense. PWS post with the picture of Mane being ‘offside’ says everything that is wrong around the current rules. That a ref and possibly other refs in a hut somewhere, looked at that image, drew some lines and said that was offside, is just f**ing Stupid, nothing else

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1465 on: October 18, 2020, 01:48:24 PM »
As a counter point the decision to go back for a penalty in the sheff u vs fulham game was exactly what it should be for, it was a clear foul that was missed.

Online Brend'Watkins

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1466 on: October 18, 2020, 02:17:49 PM »
I‘’ll nip the quotathon now.  The “bigger” teams being denied victories in the last minute because of var is exactly what’s good about it. The amount of penalties given and not given against them over the years is scandalous. It would be a bit rich of them to use technology as an excuse for them not being in the top four. One very good outcome of Var is that it has levelled things up. Even the bigger teams are suffering it’s impact.
So be because the use of VAR and rules around it seemingly even out terrible decisions, it’s good. Just nonsense. PWS post with the picture of Mane being ‘offside’ says everything that is wrong around the current rules. That a ref and possibly other refs in a hut somewhere, looked at that image, drew some lines and said that was offside, is just f**ing Stupid, nothing else

You’re going to have to get used to it just like Liverpool ManU etc are going to have to get used to it. I’d say that’s a very good thing for the sport having witnessed this two to name but a few for 40 odd years getting more than their fair share of decisions.

Offline old man villa fan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1467 on: October 18, 2020, 03:07:30 PM »
When they have to replay the incident from different angles and then over and again from one or two of those angles, you know that it has gone too far.  Selecting what should be the best angle (unless the view is obstructed) and run it once a normal speed and once slowed down should be enough to decide on clear and obvious errors.

Offline Mister E

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1468 on: October 18, 2020, 03:15:37 PM »
As a counter point the decision to go back for a penalty in the sheff u vs fulham game was exactly what it should be for, it was a clear foul that was missed.
Yes, Nothing wrong with VAR: it's the guidance governing its use that is at issue.
And, I think, the governance has been vague because refs (as a collective) are afraid of being shown up as fallible.
Re offside, it's clear that what constitutes offside needs to be redefined: someone above suggests that a foot needs to be over the line - yes, something like that.

Offline The Edge

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1469 on: October 18, 2020, 04:14:23 PM »
As a counter point the decision to go back for a penalty in the sheff u vs fulham game was exactly what it should be for, it was a clear foul that was missed.
Yes, Nothing wrong with VAR: it's the guidance governing its use that is at issue.
And, I think, the governance has been vague because refs (as a collective) are afraid of being shown up as fallible.
Re offside, it's clear that what constitutes offside needs to be redefined: someone above suggests that a foot needs to be over the line - yes, something like that.
Using the position of the foot sounds like a decent idea. However I'd ban the use of drawing bloody lines on a screen. Var should be there to advise the referee that he may have missed something. He should then go to the monitor and have a look. If it's not obvious from that his original decision stands. Simple.

 


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