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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 343378 times)

Online Baldy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #255 on: August 22, 2019, 09:06:35 AM »
'Deliberate'

'done consciously and intentionally.
"a deliberate attempt to provoke conflict" intentional, calculated, conscious, done on purpose, intended, planned, meant, considered, studied, knowing, wilful, wanton, purposeful, purposive, premeditated, pre-planned, thought out in advance, prearranged, preconceived, predetermined;

When it came to a goalkeeper picking up the ball, it only took the footballing community a few weeks to acknowledge what was a deliberate back pass and what was accidental. The transition of that was very smooth and should now be applied to the handball rule.

Alas, we have made a 'mountain out of a molehill' when it comes to the handball rule. Either it is deliberate or not. The footballing community is wise enough to know what is a deliberate handball and what is accidental.

Lets cut out all this crap about hands behind the back, arms in unnatural position etc and just apply common sense.

In my view, over 90% of penalties given for handball were never deliberate (see meaning above) but merely because a player was fortunate enough to be born with two arms.

As for the offside law, unlike VAR, a player does not have the advantage of lines been drawn all over the pitch. Goals are the bloodline of the game and should not be ruled out because someone has got a big nose, big feet etc. IMHO, a player should only be offside if there is a 'clear gap' between the last defender and the attacker. For the sake of the game, let's give the attacking team some breathing space and change the law accordingly.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #256 on: August 22, 2019, 09:38:51 AM »
I've never understood why that rule is so vague. How many is "persistent"? Three, five, ten, twenty?

Pick an actual number and have somebody in the stand count how many each player has done, tell the referee by earpiece when a player needs booking.
When I reffed - at a very local level - if a team persistently fouled, I'd warn the team captain that he would receive a yellow card if it continued.
Amazingly, the captain always looked amazed when I pulled a card on him, even after making it very clear that he needed to control his team.

Don't think you'd get away with that these days.

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #257 on: August 22, 2019, 09:49:07 AM »
I've never understood why that rule is so vague. How many is "persistent"? Three, five, ten, twenty?

Pick an actual number and have somebody in the stand count how many each player has done, tell the referee by earpiece when a player needs booking.
When I reffed - at a very local level - if a team persistently fouled, I'd warn the team captain that he would receive a yellow card if it continued.
Amazingly, the captain always looked amazed when I pulled a card on him, even after making it very clear that he needed to control his team.

Don't think you'd get away with that these days.
?

I never did it in all the years I was involved, I see it as delegating responsibility.  Everything was/is there to deal with infringements of the laws.  Always keep a sharp pencil and a couple of biro's for back-up.  The only thing I can think of, off the top of my head, is when officiating on your own a mass brawl breaks out.  Best action? don't get involved, stand back and let them sort it themselves then abandon the game and report it to the relevant authorities.  No point in you getting whacked.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #258 on: August 22, 2019, 09:53:36 AM »
I was in favour of VAR but it's been a disaster the way it's being implemented.  It's exacerbated by ridiculous handball and offside laws, but really it's the micro-analysis of every bloody incident of note that is a farce, when it was supposed to be for clear and obvious situations were an injustice was clearly done.  It's as if they are determined to use their new toy at every possible opportunity.  A two reviews per team system is probably the only way to stop that.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: VAR
« Reply #259 on: August 22, 2019, 10:20:06 AM »
I think it will settle in.  I'm delighted that the correct decision will be reached on offsides and hand balls, however marginal they may be.  I don't really buy into this losing the moment of euphoria stuff - the for majority of goals it will be pretty clear there are no potential issues.  Getting the correct decision and the correct result is far more important to me.

Offline Villa75

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Re: VAR
« Reply #260 on: August 22, 2019, 11:34:07 AM »
I would be totally against limited appeals.

Imagine you've used your (two?) appeals, possibly by millimetres, and someone scores a crucial illegal goal against you, missed by the ref - think Maradona, Henry et al. It almost makes it a waste of time having the system.

Once teams know the opposition has no more challenges left, often near the end of games, they may as well start pushing the acceptable boundaries to gain an advantage.

If we're going to have it we should use it to cut out all illegal goals, however 'boarderline'. That's the only way we get a level playing field.

Use it, or dont. But, please, none of this wishy washy nonsense leading to games still being won by cheating or officiating mistakes.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 11:36:17 AM by Villa75 »

Offline AllanW

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Re: VAR
« Reply #261 on: August 22, 2019, 11:43:34 AM »
I was in favour of VAR but it's been a disaster the way it's being implemented.  It's exacerbated by ridiculous handball and offside laws, but really it's the micro-analysis of every bloody incident of note that is a farce, when it was supposed to be for clear and obvious situations were an injustice was clearly done.

This. A million times this.

It's supposed to be there for clear injustices and the refereeing community and their willing supporters are using it to manufacture work for themselves by micro-analysing issues we didn't even think were issues. It's damaging the game.

When you get to the position we are in now where people watching in the ground and worldwide hold their breath and stifle their celebrations for minutes after a goal is scored in case there was a brush of the arm or someone's toe was offside in the buildup (something no-one on the pitch, acting as referee, in the stands or watching on the TV saw in real-time) then the game has subjugated the entertainment value and history and joy of the game in the service of bureaucrats.

Stop it now and only use it for gross injustices.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: VAR
« Reply #262 on: August 22, 2019, 01:06:45 PM »
If the delays get as lengthy as they did in the Womens WC then I would imagine it wont be long before sky / BT slip in a quick advert just like US sports are always breaking to commericals

And lets face it every other feature of US sport TV has crept into our game

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #263 on: August 22, 2019, 01:12:45 PM »
The delays don't seem nearly as bad on the basis of what I've seen, and I've no problem with broadcasters copying ideas from other sports. The score and time at the top/bottom of the screen has been an excellent innovation, for instance.

They won't be squeezing adverts in but it wouldn't amaze me if you start getting "VAR decision sponsored by...", though if they go down that route they'd be copying cricket, not the Americans.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 01:16:49 PM by cdbullyweefan »

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #264 on: August 24, 2019, 10:49:06 AM »
Bumping the persistent infringement debate.  Last night saw classic examples of it.  How many times was Gomez penalised for fouling?  I have no idea, but he should have been cautioned long before he was.  I can't remember but I'm sure someone will, but was he eventually booked for failing to retreat the required distance to allow a free-kick to be taken?  If it was him, he wouldn't have been cautioned for persistent infringement and that would be disgraceful.

Offline CT

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Re: VAR
« Reply #265 on: August 24, 2019, 12:52:27 PM »
Are we going to have Alan Shearer explaining VAR to us before  every game?

Offline KRS

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Re: VAR
« Reply #266 on: August 24, 2019, 03:50:38 PM »
I don’t understand how the ref decided to book both Trez and their player after he kicked the ball and went straight through on Trez. That could have been a nasty injury and Everton stood over our freekicks all game.

Also with the new handball rules, didn’t Mina (?) block the ball with his arm/hand in an “unnatural position” when sliding to block the shot from Wes? I’m sure we’ll see plenty of them given this season.

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #267 on: August 24, 2019, 05:09:29 PM »
For Trezeguet got booked for not retreating the required distance at the free-kick despite Everton doing it all game.  There's a case for sending off Coleman but, I'm guessing it wouldn't stand up on appeal.  The referee took the easy option and booked him.

Offline Villa75

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Re: VAR
« Reply #268 on: August 24, 2019, 05:20:43 PM »
I don’t understand how the ref decided to book both Trez and their player after he kicked the ball and went straight through on Trez. That could have been a nasty injury and Everton stood over our freekicks all game.

Also with the new handball rules, didn’t Mina (?) block the ball with his arm/hand in an “unnatural position” when sliding to block the shot from Wes? I’m sure we’ll see plenty of them given this season.


They are trying to use common sense, regarding natural position. The ref and co decided, with the way Mina was sliding in to defend the ball, his arm was in a natural position for that movement.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #269 on: August 24, 2019, 05:35:42 PM »
The Derby Baggies game was a good argument in favour of VAR. I think most would agree that we want actual cheating stamped out.

 


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