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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 83840 times)

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #120 on: July 04, 2019, 04:30:59 PM »


Such as? Please elaborate. Bearing in mind this is your opinion, and some people - professionals and spectators alike - have actually been crying out for video technology for a long time now.

Better redistribution of wealth, help for grassroots football, the farcical loans system, FFP, re-arranged fixtures and their inconvenience to supporters. Little details like that.

Just because those issues exist doesn't mean another problem, like the chronic mismanagement of games by pitch officials, shouldn't also be addressed by the use of video assistant. It's not a case of focusing on one thing to the detriment of others, holistic improvements can be made across the board in tandem with each other.

The Chelsea goals against Cardiff last season are a good example of why VAR is needed. I don't have any affinity to either club, but Cardiff should not by rights have lost that game, and when enough of those decisions go against you it means relegation. Hopefully VAR will mean that poor decisions are less of a contributing factor to Villa's fortunes in the PL.

65% of those who have voted on this poll obviously don't see it as a problem. As you said earlier, you have your opinion. 

Well it may not be that they don't see it as a problem, just that they don't like the solution, or perhaps the way the solution is being implemented.   A lot of the tweaks suggested on here and by many others are not only common sense, but would allow VAR to correct glaring errors without disrupting the flow of the game or detracting from the spontaneous excitement of goals too much.  It's the incompetence of the implementation that is making a mockery of it.  But then I'd expect nothing less of FIFA, UEFA et al.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #121 on: July 04, 2019, 04:31:57 PM »
I'd be fine with it if the guidelines were changed so that the VAR people could only use real time replays, this way only the clear and obvious errors would be flagged up. The use of slow motion is the most damaging as it distorts judgement of the game (particularly for handballs)

So the powers that be have rectified this by.....changing the handball laws to make the whole thing into a guaranteed farce

Yes, another good suggestion.

Online hilts_coolerking

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Re: VAR
« Reply #122 on: July 04, 2019, 10:39:05 PM »
I'm all for it.  Improvements to its implementation will come soon enough.

Offline Edvard Remberg

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Re: VAR
« Reply #123 on: July 05, 2019, 11:20:52 AM »
I am so for it - but I think the way it has been implemented in the WC/CL and in England is almost done in a way to make it binned - everything goes to VAR - that wasn't supposed to be the case.

For crossing lines, offside it is "factual" - but for fouls and goals, it has to be clear and obvious error - which it isn't how it is being used.

When I used to see it in the Bundesliga - never was an issue. E.g. a handball in the box, and the ref might wave away VAR option, as he has maybe seen it and assessed it as no foul - then it doesn't go to VAR. The same with fouls in build up to goal (I think you can argue for a foul for every goal scored from a corner).

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #124 on: July 05, 2019, 12:44:52 PM »
I don't like the idea of the game being officiated by someone not there. But I'd be kind of okay with the referee getting a second look if they or their assistants think there might have been something specific happen in a specific incident they're not 100% certain of, something they've already nailed down with the goal line thing. Was it controlled with an arm? Was there a tug back? Was it offside? Was the player taken first or after? We all know the sort of thing. Isn't that how it happens in rugby, the ref asks the question, rather than being told?

Offline Baldy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #125 on: July 05, 2019, 01:45:02 PM »
Where possible, how can Villa turn VAR to their advantage? You can guarantee teams like Liverpool and Manchester United etc will be scrutinising VAR through a microscope and training their players/management to make the most of it. Afterall, VAR will be very important for deciding the outcome of many games next season.

Should Villa set up its own fully equipped 'video assistance' room with a hotline to the bench.

Should we establish 'a line of communication' to our players to get in the referees ear (when appropriate) and as soon as possible. Speed will be of essence.

Should we train our players to fall in the box when defending any set piece. Preferably, a player who has no chance of getting the ball. We can then query any goal that is conceded. 

I am sure there are lots of other things that teams will do to try and turn VAR to their advantage. The most 'streetwise' teams often end up nearer the top of the league!!

Offline Villa75

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Re: VAR
« Reply #126 on: July 05, 2019, 02:12:10 PM »
Where possible, how can Villa turn VAR to their advantage? You can guarantee teams like Liverpool and Manchester United etc will be scrutinising VAR through a microscope and training their players/management to make the most of it. Afterall, VAR will be very important for deciding the outcome of many games next season.

Should Villa set up its own fully equipped 'video assistance' room with a hotline to the bench.

Should we establish 'a line of communication' to our players to get in the referees ear (when appropriate) and as soon as possible. Speed will be of essence.

Should we train our players to fall in the box when defending any set piece. Preferably, a player who has no chance of getting the ball. We can then query any goal that is conceded. 

I am sure there are lots of other things that teams will do to try and turn VAR to their advantage. The most 'streetwise' teams often end up nearer the top of the league!!

Eh?

I thought all goals were subject to VAR scrutiny already?


Online ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #127 on: July 05, 2019, 02:57:06 PM »
How are they going to stop teams, crowding the ref, stoping the game on purpose by feigning injury to get a VAR replay?
How are they going to stop the refs abdicating responsibility to VAR?
The new interpretation of handball is ridiculous.

Online chrisw1

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Re: VAR
« Reply #128 on: July 05, 2019, 03:46:33 PM »
I don't like the idea of the game being officiated by someone not there. But I'd be kind of okay with the referee getting a second look if they or their assistants think there might have been something specific happen in a specific incident they're not 100% certain of, something they've already nailed down with the goal line thing. Was it controlled with an arm? Was there a tug back? Was it offside? Was the player taken first or after? We all know the sort of thing. Isn't that how it happens in rugby, the ref asks the question, rather than being told?
In rugby the ref can ask specific questions - such as "is there any reason why I can't award this try" or "Try or no try"  The wording makes a difference - with the former the assumption is that it's a try and there needs to be positive evidence to disallow it.  With the latter it's all down to the video ref.

BUT, the video ref can also draw the refs attention to other incidents during play, foul play, forward pass etc.  You may think this sound like interfering, but it's only an extension of what the touch judges do anyway.  I appreciate this would be harder in football because it's a faster game.

To be honest it works absolutely brilliantly.  There is still controversy and some decisions still get called into question, but coupled with the extremely high level of refereeing and the natural respect of players towards officials in rugby, it just works and has improved the game enormously in my view.

I get the impression FIFA just wanted to row their own boat with their own system from day one.  I do wonder if they ever conferred with world rugby about the merits and difficulties they face when developing their systems.  They may have done, but I suspect not.

I still think it can be made to work.  Rome wasn't built in a day.

Online AsTallAsLions

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Re: VAR
« Reply #129 on: July 05, 2019, 03:52:42 PM »
I don't like the idea of the game being officiated by someone not there. But I'd be kind of okay with the referee getting a second look if they or their assistants think there might have been something specific happen in a specific incident they're not 100% certain of, something they've already nailed down with the goal line thing. Was it controlled with an arm? Was there a tug back? Was it offside? Was the player taken first or after? We all know the sort of thing. Isn't that how it happens in rugby, the ref asks the question, rather than being told?
In rugby the ref can ask specific questions - such as "is there any reason why I can't award this try" or "Try or no try"  The wording makes a difference - with the former the assumption is that it's a try and there needs to be positive evidence to disallow it.  With the latter it's all down to the video ref.

BUT, the video ref can also draw the refs attention to other incidents during play, foul play, forward pass etc.  You may think this sound like interfering, but it's only an extension of what the touch judges do anyway.  I appreciate this would be harder in football because it's a faster game.

To be honest it works absolutely brilliantly.  There is still controversy and some decisions still get called into question, but coupled with the extremely high level of refereeing and the natural respect of players towards officials in rugby, it just works and has improved the game enormously in my view.

I get the impression FIFA just wanted to row their own boat with their own system from day one.  I do wonder if they ever conferred with world rugby about the merits and difficulties they face when developing their systems.  They may have done, but I suspect not.

I still think it can be made to work.  Rome wasn't built in a day.

Agree with every word of this. TMO is used brilliantly in my opinion and while VAR might not be up to scratch yet, the need for it is (and always has been) clear as far as I'm concerned, and with tweaking and natural evolution it will end up being less intrusive.

Offline AllanW

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Re: VAR
« Reply #130 on: July 05, 2019, 03:58:20 PM »
I still think it can be made to work.  Rome wasn't built in a day.

And what happens to all the games, people and clubs damaged by the shit-show currently in place until they get there?

Not a direct repost to you just a convenient point at which to make it :)

I think they should take the results they've got so far and treat them as an experiment, remove VAR worldwide, go into a dark room and work out what needs to happen when it's implemented next time so it only delivers benefits not problems of any sort. That's not too much to ask because at the moment the damage far outweighs the benefit. Get it right THEN implement it.


Online ChicagoLion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #131 on: July 05, 2019, 04:25:37 PM »
I still think it can be made to work.  Rome wasn't built in a day.

And what happens to all the games, people and clubs damaged by the shit-show currently in place until they get there?

Not a direct repost to you just a convenient point at which to make it :)

I think they should take the results they've got so far and treat them as an experiment, remove VAR worldwide, go into a dark room and work out what needs to happen when it's implemented next time so it only delivers benefits not problems of any sort. That's not too much to ask because at the moment the damage far outweighs the benefit. Get it right THEN implement it.
Agree, hence my questions above.
They can take the WW Cup as evidence.

Offline KRS

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Re: VAR
« Reply #132 on: July 05, 2019, 09:08:30 PM »
Where possible, how can Villa turn VAR to their advantage? You can guarantee teams like Liverpool and Manchester United etc will be scrutinising VAR through a microscope and training their players/management to make the most of it. Afterall, VAR will be very important for deciding the outcome of many games next season.

Should Villa set up its own fully equipped 'video assistance' room with a hotline to the bench.

Should we establish 'a line of communication' to our players to get in the referees ear (when appropriate) and as soon as possible. Speed will be of essence.

Should we train our players to fall in the box when defending any set piece. Preferably, a player who has no chance of getting the ball. We can then query any goal that is conceded. 

I am sure there are lots of other things that teams will do to try and turn VAR to their advantage. The most 'streetwise' teams often end up nearer the top of the league!!
Iíve mentioned this previously in the thread but I fully expect teams like Man Utd, Citeh and Liverpool to exploit and take advantage of minimal contact in the box. A new breed of VAR simulated diving is literally on the horizon, and VAR will justify decisions in their favour.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #133 on: July 05, 2019, 09:38:52 PM »
Are people now saying that something which was called for to help  eradicate diving will, in fact, encourage and legitimise it?

Offline KRS

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Re: VAR
« Reply #134 on: July 05, 2019, 10:31:52 PM »
Iím not sure if itís people or just me predicting the future. If you use the England penalty the other night as an example and replace White with Sterling, Aguero or Salah, then I foresee players going down under the slightest of touches, calling for VAR and penalties being awarded. VAR to this extent has only been used in the WWC so just imagine how bad it could get when professional males get the chance to exploit it. I hope Iím proved wrong, but under the current rules and VAR implementation, this is what we can look forward to.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 10:39:22 PM by KRS »

 


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