collapse collapse
Please donate to help towards the costs of keeping this site going. Thank You.

August 10, 2021, 03:37:52 PM by dave.woodhall | Views: 3269 | Comments: 5

It will soon be three years si...
August 09, 2021, 02:47:33 PM by dave.woodhall | Views: 5771 | Comments: 40

The Jack Grealish transfer mad...
August 08, 2021, 11:32:36 PM by dave.woodhall | Views: 2782 | Comments: 9

So he chose success after all....
August 07, 2021, 01:22:40 AM by dave.woodhall | Views: 2054 | Comments: 3

I well remember the day in Feb...
August 06, 2021, 06:39:59 PM by dave.woodhall | Views: 2307 | Comments: 11

The new name for the 100 ball ...

Follow us on...

Author Topic: VAR  (Read 170290 times)

Online Ad@m

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11459
  • GM : 21.03.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2100 on: August 23, 2021, 09:06:43 AM »
Who said it was an error!
Lino might have said at the time "that was close, probably off but let it run, then we can check".

He almost certainly did and that is literally what they're told to do in tight calls. To then moan that it wasn't 'clear and obvious' is ignoring how the officials are operating. Look at the freeze frame with the lines and pay attention to the lines in the grass and it's clear that he was 5-6 niches offside, it was nothing like some of the tight calls from last season.

As for our penalty, anyone who doesn't see that as a clear handball just doesn't know the laws of the game, the controversy there is that the ref was looking straight at it and didn't spot it, that was the definition of a clear and obvious error.

You've missed the point.

It's not about how the officials are operating, it's about how they should be operating.

No one asked for VAR to try to deal with marginal offsides.  VAR was introduced as a concept in football to stop the dropped bollocks; the ridiculous decisions that were obvious to everyone except the on-field ref.

In the ground on Saturday, no one was appealing for offside.  Players and fans included.  To the point that when it flashed up on the screen that VAR were checking the penalty, no one around me could even work out what they might be checking!

VAR should be there to help the on-field refs, not to re-ref the game.  If it's a clanger of an offside decision, you'll see that on a replay within seconds without drawing silly lines.  That means we're not stood there in the ground waiting in the dark for Stockley Park to get their Etch-a-sketch out and if it's marginal, no one's going to get that upset if it doesn't go your way.

Offline cdbullyweefan

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53823
  • Location: Yardley Massive
  • I still hate Bono.
    • Every time you click this link, a child in Africa dies.
  • GM : 27.01.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2101 on: August 23, 2021, 09:09:50 AM »
It is clearly offside. Look at the grass, not the lines. It would have been ludicrous if they'd allowed it.

Offline paul_e

  • Member
  • Posts: 26083
  • Age: 41
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: VAR
« Reply #2102 on: August 23, 2021, 10:37:10 AM »
Who said it was an error!
Lino might have said at the time "that was close, probably off but let it run, then we can check".

He almost certainly did and that is literally what they're told to do in tight calls. To then moan that it wasn't 'clear and obvious' is ignoring how the officials are operating. Look at the freeze frame with the lines and pay attention to the lines in the grass and it's clear that he was 5-6 niches offside, it was nothing like some of the tight calls from last season.

As for our penalty, anyone who doesn't see that as a clear handball just doesn't know the laws of the game, the controversy there is that the ref was looking straight at it and didn't spot it, that was the definition of a clear and obvious error.

You've missed the point.

It's not about how the officials are operating, it's about how they should be operating.

No one asked for VAR to try to deal with marginal offsides.  VAR was introduced as a concept in football to stop the dropped bollocks; the ridiculous decisions that were obvious to everyone except the on-field ref.

In the ground on Saturday, no one was appealing for offside.  Players and fans included.  To the point that when it flashed up on the screen that VAR were checking the penalty, no one around me could even work out what they might be checking!

VAR should be there to help the on-field refs, not to re-ref the game.  If it's a clanger of an offside decision, you'll see that on a replay within seconds without drawing silly lines.  That means we're not stood there in the ground waiting in the dark for Stockley Park to get their Etch-a-sketch out and if it's marginal, no one's going to get that upset if it doesn't go your way.

I haven't missed anything, we've heard repeatedly that, for tight calls, linesmen have been instructed to not flag so play can continue and it can be checked by VAR. That means almost every argument against it is pointless because no one knows what he would've done if VAR didnít exist.

With that in mind watch it again and ask if the decision is correct and pretty obvious without lines (it is, as CD says the shading of the grass makes it really clear). There have been marginal calls in the past that wouldn't have been given on the pitch but this wasn't one of them and if it hadn't been called back it would've been a mistake.

Offline chrisw1

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5454
  • GM : 20.08.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2103 on: August 23, 2021, 10:43:41 AM »
Who said it was an error!
Lino might have said at the time "that was close, probably off but let it run, then we can check".

He almost certainly did and that is literally what they're told to do in tight calls. To then moan that it wasn't 'clear and obvious' is ignoring how the officials are operating. Look at the freeze frame with the lines and pay attention to the lines in the grass and it's clear that he was 5-6 niches offside, it was nothing like some of the tight calls from last season.

As for our penalty, anyone who doesn't see that as a clear handball just doesn't know the laws of the game, the controversy there is that the ref was looking straight at it and didn't spot it, that was the definition of a clear and obvious error.

You've missed the point.

It's not about how the officials are operating, it's about how they should be operating.

No one asked for VAR to try to deal with marginal offsides.  VAR was introduced as a concept in football to stop the dropped bollocks; the ridiculous decisions that were obvious to everyone except the on-field ref.

In the ground on Saturday, no one was appealing for offside.  Players and fans included.  To the point that when it flashed up on the screen that VAR were checking the penalty, no one around me could even work out what they might be checking!

VAR should be there to help the on-field refs, not to re-ref the game.  If it's a clanger of an offside decision, you'll see that on a replay within seconds without drawing silly lines.  That means we're not stood there in the ground waiting in the dark for Stockley Park to get their Etch-a-sketch out and if it's marginal, no one's going to get that upset if it doesn't go your way.
Much as I love the tables being turned, I don't think Paul is missing the point at all.  It wasn't that marginal - the new margin for error makes that clear.  We have got to the correct decision whether the linesman called it or not.  I can't understand why people are still moaning about this.  We're getting the correct decsions with the benefit of the doubt to the attacker.  Isn't that what we all wanted?

Offline chrisw1

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5454
  • GM : 20.08.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2104 on: August 23, 2021, 10:46:27 AM »
I like Brucey's attempted defence of it. He raised his leg so he had to raise his arm as well.  What is he, a fucking puppet?!
<applause>

Online Ad@m

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11459
  • GM : 21.03.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2105 on: August 23, 2021, 10:52:17 AM »
Saturday's event just happened to take place where there was a line in the grass.  And even then it still took 30 seconds or more for a decision.  What if Wilson had been 5 yards further forward or back?  The grass wouldn't have helped then and as no one in the ground appealed for offside it can't have been that obvious an error.

My issue is less with Saturday's specific event, and more with the fact we're using lines at all.  Rugby don't use lines for offside and it works fine there.  Ditch the lines - if the result is blatantly wrong, change it.  If it's not blatantly wrong, the decision stands.

Offline chrisw1

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5454
  • GM : 20.08.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2106 on: August 23, 2021, 10:58:29 AM »
Offside has never had the 'clear and obvious error' test with VAR - thats is just for refereeing decisions.  Offside has always been a 'yes or no.'  It's amazing how many people haven't picked up on this.

They've now built in a margin for error.  Stop worrying, it's the same for everyone.  We'll lose a goal for a similar reason this season and whilst being dissapointing, I'll be ok with that.

Online Brend'Watkins

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18366
  • Location: North Birmingham Clique teritory
  • GM : 19.03.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2107 on: August 23, 2021, 11:04:10 AM »
All the VAR decisions were spot on and all of them without the assistance of VAR would have been accepted by those at the game had they not been given. 

Our penalty...a clear and obvious mistake or miss by the ref.
Their penalty that was overruled for offside, a clear and obvious decision missed by the lino.  6" is clear and obvious, anything less is less so.  I notice now they are using thicker imaginary lines in their pseudo science calculations, this should hopefully clear up the really tight calls until the science is improved.

Offline chrisw1

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5454
  • GM : 20.08.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2108 on: August 23, 2021, 11:08:08 AM »
All the VAR decisions were spot on and all of them without the assistance of VAR would have been accepted by those at the game had they not been given. 

Our penalty...a clear and obvious mistake or miss by the ref.
Their penalty that was overruled for offside, a clear and obvious decision missed by the lino.  6" is clear and obvious, anything less is less so.  I notice now they are using thicker imaginary lines in their pseudo science calculations, this should hopefully clear up the really tight calls until the science is improved.
But as above, offside does not have to be clear and obvious.  It's black or white (subject to the built in margin of error).

Online Brend'Watkins

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18366
  • Location: North Birmingham Clique teritory
  • GM : 19.03.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2109 on: August 23, 2021, 11:18:05 AM »
All the VAR decisions were spot on and all of them without the assistance of VAR would have been accepted by those at the game had they not been given. 

Our penalty...a clear and obvious mistake or miss by the ref.
Their penalty that was overruled for offside, a clear and obvious decision missed by the lino.  6" is clear and obvious, anything less is less so.  I notice now they are using thicker imaginary lines in their pseudo science calculations, this should hopefully clear up the really tight calls until the science is improved.
But as above, offside does not have to be clear and obvious.  It's black or white (subject to the built in margin of error).

I agree.  It's still an error mistake or whatever by the lino and VAR, even as it is corrected that error.  On or offside should be instant with VAR but for now I'd settle for quicker with the decision. 

Offline Risso

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 66754
  • Location: Leics
  • GM : 01.03.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2110 on: August 23, 2021, 11:25:44 AM »
Saturday's event just happened to take place where there was a line in the grass.  And even then it still took 30 seconds or more for a decision.  What if Wilson had been 5 yards further forward or back?  The grass wouldn't have helped then and as no one in the ground appealed for offside it can't have been that obvious an error.

My issue is less with Saturday's specific event, and more with the fact we're using lines at all.  Rugby don't use lines for offside and it works fine there.  Ditch the lines - if the result is blatantly wrong, change it.  If it's not blatantly wrong, the decision stands.

They're not going to change it though, so arguing about it is a bit like pissing in the wind. They've made the lines a bit thicker so the margin of error is a bit less ridiculous, but that's as far as they're going to go I reckon. By usual VAR offside standards, he was miles off on Saturday.

Online Lastfootstamper

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8178
  • Age: 56
  • Location: Greater Birmingham
  • GM : 02.01.2021
Re: VAR
« Reply #2111 on: August 23, 2021, 11:56:05 AM »
Rewatching it on the telly, he looks offside. Without the lines on that still with Mings (I've not seen a picture with the lines), he looks offside. I don't see why some people with poor eyesight want to deprive the rest of us of one of the funniest things to happen in yonks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, "but what if it had happened to us", don't care. It didn't. It happened to Steve Bruce's Newcastle. Ergo, fucking funny.

Offline RamboandBruno

  • Member
  • Posts: 1108
  • Location: Birmingham about 4 miles from Villa Park
Re: VAR
« Reply #2112 on: August 24, 2021, 07:34:22 AM »
Saturday's event just happened to take place where there was a line in the grass.  And even then it still took 30 seconds or more for a decision.  What if Wilson had been 5 yards further forward or back?  The grass wouldn't have helped then and as no one in the ground appealed for offside it can't have been that obvious an error.

My issue is less with Saturday's specific event, and more with the fact we're using lines at all.  Rugby don't use lines for offside and it works fine there.  Ditch the lines - if the result is blatantly wrong, change it.  If it's not blatantly wrong, the decision stands.

I donít particularly like VAR, mainly because of the delay, and the fact I found that pre pandemic, my son stopped celebrating immediately after we scored, automatically presuming each goal could be ruled out by VAR for some reason or other, thatís the real tragedy of over scientifically analysing football.
I think the offside aspect has always been the most contentious as especially last season, it seemed like they were looking for the toenail or elbow rather than clear or obvious. I donít buy the black and white aspect of offside in this regards.
However, saying all that, so far and itís early days, it seem to be used with a lot more sense this season and Iím not just saying this as decisions went for Villa. There has to be a point where someone is offside and Wilson was and not just a toenail. I think the crowd not appealing is largely irrelevant, for all the years Iíve been going to VP, I rarely remember the crowd appealing for offsides other than something really really blatant. If VARs here to stay I also prefer the refs being called to the monitors more.

Offline Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air

  • Member
  • Posts: 9483
  • Location: Upton Park....No, Olympic Stadium....No, Aston Park...Yes that's it,Turf Moor.
Re: VAR
« Reply #2113 on: October 23, 2021, 09:23:50 PM »
Bumping this.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of last nights penalty, allowing the game to play on for so long before the referee looks and makes a decision got me thinking.
Firstly, I think Smith is wrong claiming that the ref should have blown up immediately Martinez saved. As mentioned elsewhere when the incident occurred there were still quite a few seconds left so when VAR is upheld the whole game is taken back those number of seconds thus allowing them to convert the rebound.
My big concern is what happens if something major occurs in the passage of play before the ref then refers to VAR ?
What if we had gone up the other end and scored a perfectly legitimate goal? Would the ref then have chalked off our goal while then awarding them a penalty, turning 1-1 into a likely 2-0 with a single decision.
What if Arsenal had scored a perfectly good goal in that passage of play ? If it's deemed a penalty would their goal making it 2-0 be chalked off and replaced with the chance to make it 2-0 instead ?
I'm not aware of something like this happening up to now but it's going to sometime.



Offline cdbullyweefan

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 53823
  • Location: Yardley Massive
  • I still hate Bono.
    • Every time you click this link, a child in Africa dies.
  • GM : 27.01.2022
Re: VAR
« Reply #2114 on: October 23, 2021, 09:26:43 PM »
If we had scored, it would have been cancelled out, and they would have been awarded the penalty. I think the same happened in the first year of VAR. May have been Man U v Liverpool, not sure. If they'd scored, they would have counted it as advantage and allowed the goal. They would still maybe have sent off the defending player if they'd made a red card worthy tackle (which obviously wasn't the case yesterday).

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal