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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 343882 times)

Offline exigo

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1395 on: September 28, 2020, 01:12:47 PM »
One of the reasons I've never really been able to watch hockey as a sport, is because it's essentially grown adults trying to smash a ball into people's feet from about six inches away to win penalties.

That's what the new rules in football will reduce it to: get to the edge of the area, smack it against a defender's hand. More chance of scoring from the subsequent penalty, than by crossing or shooting.

Online Nev

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1396 on: September 28, 2020, 01:29:52 PM »
It is and was a ridiculous decision. I remember Mark Delaney having a pen against him for exactly the same in a match against Middlesbrough or maybe Sunderland. No VAR back then just a ref who didn’t like us much from my recollection.

Sunderland. Elleray.

Well I never, journalist Martin Lipton speaking on Talksport is expaining the origin of the new handball rule and guess who's name came up? One David Elleray.

That's what you get when you involve a public school master.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1397 on: September 28, 2020, 02:01:43 PM »
The handball thing needs looking at but overall I think VAR is massively improved now refs are taking more control and looking at the monitors.  Now they just need to take the next step and allow refs to be honest and just say I'm not 100% sure on that, let me take another look without having to be asked to do so by the VAR official.  In a nushell the rugby union model - the best example of VAR out there and quite why football felt they had to reinvent the wheel I don't know.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1398 on: September 28, 2020, 02:26:53 PM »
The handball thing needs looking at but overall I think VAR is massively improved now refs are taking more control and looking at the monitors.  Now they just need to take the next step and allow refs to be honest and just say I'm not 100% sure on that, let me take another look without having to be asked to do so by the VAR official.  In a nushell the rugby union model - the best example of VAR out there and quite why football felt they had to reinvent the wheel I don't know.

Agreed, I think the balance in rugby is better.

On the positives I think not raising the flag for offside is a massive improvement.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1399 on: September 28, 2020, 02:35:25 PM »
Rugby as a game is much more suited to VAR though, as play stops after most phases anyway.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1400 on: September 28, 2020, 02:46:30 PM »
Rugby as a game is much more suited to VAR though, as play stops after most phases anyway.

True but I just think the it's been implemented in rugby shows better understanding of the game. I'd say the inclusion of a screen in the ground that the fans can see is a big positive as well, as is the officials having mics. The transparency of the decisions plays a big part, even if it was just the VAR official. Imagine if the Dier one, for example, had the VAR explaining what he was seeing and why he thought it was worth a penalty, it might not make a difference to the decision but everyone would understand how they reached it and you could have a proper discussion about whether that interpretation is reasonable.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1401 on: September 28, 2020, 06:05:16 PM »
Rugby as a game is much more suited to VAR though, as play stops after most phases anyway.
But don't forget it's only for the big decisions.

Ref sees a potential foul in the box, either blows or waits for the ball to go out of play and says he want's to take a closer look.  With the VAR's assistance he looks at the angles he wants to see and makes a final call.  Same for serious foul play etc.  It's not that different to the current position, but the ref stays more in control as he does in rugby.

I would clarify that with rugby the TV audience hears the exchange but not the audience in the stadium and I think with football is should probably stay that way.  There was an example of this on a video clip last season I think from a football game in Aus, and it worked really well in my view.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1402 on: September 28, 2020, 07:02:26 PM »
And nobody knows the rules in rugby anyway.

Offline sickbeggar

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1403 on: September 28, 2020, 07:54:15 PM »
VAR WATCH -MATCH 2

Crucial decision given against us by the referee  1
Points accrued                                                 3
Crucial decision given against the opposition      0
Points accrued                                                 0


Crucial decision overturned by VAR against us                       0
Points accrued                                                                    3
Crucial decision overturned by VAR against opposition            1
Points accrued                                                                    0


Overall
Crucial decisions given against us by the referee           2
Points accrued                                                            6   
Crucial decisions given against opponent by the referee 1
Points accrued                                                            0
Crucial decision overturned by VAR against us               0
Points accrued                                                            6
Crucial decisions overturned by VAR against opponent   1
Points accrued                                                            0

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1404 on: September 28, 2020, 09:27:48 PM »
And nobody knows the rules in rugby anyway.

Laws ;)

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1405 on: September 28, 2020, 09:29:25 PM »
And nobody knows the rules in rugby anyway.

Or cares.

Offline Scott Nielsen

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1406 on: September 29, 2020, 08:43:47 AM »
For whatever reason England is behind a lot of Europe on VAR due to the FA taking their own views on things. Similar now with the  view on handball. FIFA have clear set rules it's just in UK chosen to adopt a different interpretation.

The ignorance of the ex professional pundits don't help..Carragher , Neville Jenas ,Richards .. to name a few..
They'll eventually adapt.

I don't much care what pundits say and, either way, that is not really the debate we are having on H&V. It is the rule itself people object too, not the fact that referees apply the rule as it now stands.

Guardian Sport argues it well enough:

Handball pedantry sapping enjoyment from the game

Another week, another slew of spot-kicks given for the most negligible offences imaginable. It is clear that the new guidelines on handball have left the sport in an embarrassing mess, and it is hard to spot anyone who benefits: players are being penalised unfairly, fans are faced with an even more stop-start spectacle and referees are made to look like joyless jobsworths. In a low-scoring sport, a penalty – ie a very probable goal – should only result from three things: an exceptional piece of skill, an exceptional mistake, or an exceptional stroke of luck. The International Football Association Board has managed to create a situation where crippling punishments are being doled out for nonexistent crimes, and unearned goals are being scored left, right and centre. Results are being warped, too: Spurs and Crystal Palace were both robbed of much-deserved points. Quite why Ifab felt the need to meddle in the first place is anyone’s guess, but the drive of football’s bureaucrats to sap the sport of sense, spontaneity and simple enjoyment continues apace.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 08:47:01 AM by Scott Nielsen »

Offline Footy-Vill

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1407 on: September 29, 2020, 11:21:35 AM »
Its not a new rule its just a struggle and resistance  to fall in line with the rule.

Offline Scott Nielsen

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1408 on: September 29, 2020, 12:10:18 PM »
Fine. Do you approve of the changes IFAB introduced last year and how the Premier League has chosen to interpret that rule this year? Has the game of football improved as a result?

Offline Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1409 on: September 29, 2020, 12:54:27 PM »
For me the handball rule can follow one of two principles - either you say that any advantage gained through the use of the arm is a foul, or you say that any deliberate use of the arm is a foul.  Decide which one it's going to be and stick with it.

It doesn't need to be more difficult than that. The issue is caused by the powers that be arsing around with a rule that's so fundamental it shouldn't even be in question.

 


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