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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 343758 times)

Offline Toronto Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1410 on: September 29, 2020, 02:03:59 PM »
For me it all boils down to intent. Was the use of the hand or arm intentional used to prevent an attacking play? If that can be clearly determined through the ref or assistant with or without technology then that’s a handball. This whole body position thing is nonsense. The speed by which forwards move now is going to leave the defensive player in awkward physical positions. The refs are being put in impossible positions because of the rules of the game, and the technology only further complicates matters. Listened to Simon Jordan the other day and he was brilliant in stating that for ages we wanted to tech to make the game better but it’s not being used to run the game not assist in running the game.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1411 on: September 29, 2020, 02:35:30 PM »
For me the handball rule can follow one of two principles - either you say that any advantage gained through the use of the arm is a foul, or you say that any deliberate use of the arm is a foul.  Decide which one it's going to be and stick with it.

It doesn't need to be more difficult than that. The issue is caused by the powers that be arsing around with a rule that's so fundamental it shouldn't even be in question.

I think that's exactly what they've decided to do and they've gone with the advantage part of it. The ball hits your arm as a defender and nothing comes from the attack then penalty because without that intervention they might have scored. It's harsh but simple and easy to be consistent with.

For me it all boils down to intent. Was the use of the hand or arm intentional used to prevent an attacking play? If that can be clearly determined through the ref or assistant with or without technology then that’s a handball. This whole body position thing is nonsense. The speed by which forwards move now is going to leave the defensive player in awkward physical positions. The refs are being put in impossible positions because of the rules of the game, and the technology only further complicates matters. Listened to Simon Jordan the other day and he was brilliant in stating that for ages we wanted to tech to make the game better but it’s not being used to run the game not assist in running the game.

Outcomes are much more important than intent and much easier to referee. The judgement has to be whether the arm position is reasonable or not. Right now they're being overly strict with it but once the refs and VAR officials bring it down a little and have a little more understanding towards the defenders I think it will work well.


Specifically on VAR, there are problems but I think they're made worse because so many people just don't want to give it a chance, it was always going to take a few seasons for them to learn what works and what doesn't (because they can only make major changes at the start of a new season) so next summer or even the one after is the time to judge it fully. Last year the biggest problem was refs not using the monitors, they've fixed that and it's much better now so for me it's on the right track and they've shown a willingness to adapt until they get there.

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1412 on: October 17, 2020, 12:59:57 PM »
Not strictly on topic, but it was interesting to hear this morning the views of Malcolm Allison on interpretation of interfering within the offside law and players perhaps occasionally spending a little too long on the floor. In 1974.

Online Drummond

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1413 on: October 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM »
That decision (or interpretation of the law as applied by VAR) in the Merseyside game was shit.

Offline paul_e

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1414 on: October 17, 2020, 03:18:05 PM »
I'm more bothered that VAR didn't send off Pickford than I am about the disalllowed goal. I've always considered the silly handball and offside decisions a price worth paying to take things like that challenge out of the game. If it's not doing that then it's pointless.

Offline Risso

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1415 on: October 17, 2020, 03:59:57 PM »
Scissor tackles like that should attract an automatic ten match ban.  They nearly always lead to a significant amount of time injured for the person on the receiving end.

Online Meanwood Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1416 on: October 17, 2020, 04:07:11 PM »
On the offsides, does anyone else think our second and fourth last week would have been very tight if they'd been checked? I must admit I thought they must have stopped checking the millimetres on these things when they didn't even go to VAR

Offline dave shelley

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1417 on: October 17, 2020, 04:11:52 PM »
On the offsides, does anyone else think our second and fourth last week would have been very tight if they'd been checked? I must admit I thought they must have stopped checking the millimetres on these things when they didn't even go to VAR

Don't they check all goals scored irrespective?

Offline Lastfootstamper

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1418 on: October 17, 2020, 04:12:14 PM »
On the offsides, does anyone else think our second and fourth last week would have been very tight if they'd been checked? I must admit I thought they must have stopped checking the millimetres on these things when they didn't even go to VAR

What makes you think they weren't checked? A quick cursory glance showed they weren't.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1419 on: October 17, 2020, 04:12:38 PM »
Our fourth was checked. Can't think of any offsideyness about the second.

Online Meanwood Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1420 on: October 17, 2020, 04:15:00 PM »
On the offsides, does anyone else think our second and fourth last week would have been very tight if they'd been checked? I must admit I thought they must have stopped checking the millimetres on these things when they didn't even go to VAR

Don't they check all goals scored irrespective?

They don't check all of them to the level of drawing lines on the pitch and so on do they? Didn't see the Liverpool one live but presumably it took them a while to review it which suggests there is someone who decides to have a closer look or not.

Online Meanwood Villa

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1421 on: October 17, 2020, 04:17:50 PM »
Our fourth was checked. Can't think of any offsideyness about the second.

At the time I thought it might be tight when he got played in down the left. Was worried it would get pulled back for his armpit being off or something.

Offline Mister E

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1422 on: October 17, 2020, 05:56:07 PM »
Scissor tackles like that should attract an automatic ten match ban.  They nearly always lead to a significant amount of time injured for the person on the receiving end.
They should do it for a couple of seasons, retrospectively - and Ben Mee gets his come-uppance.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1423 on: October 17, 2020, 10:33:30 PM »
Scissor tackles like that should attract an automatic ten match ban.  They nearly always lead to a significant amount of time injured for the person on the receiving end.

It's absolutely disgusting.

The rules of the game are simply wrong if a tackle like that is allowed to go unpunished, regardless of whether the game had stopped for offside.

Offline dave17

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1424 on: October 17, 2020, 10:56:41 PM »
Scissor tackles like that should attract an automatic ten match ban.  They nearly always lead to a significant amount of time injured for the person on the receiving end.
They should do it for a couple of seasons, retrospectively - and Ben Mee gets his come-uppance.
I still don’t understand why he was done for the tackle on Wesley. It looked like it was intended to make a point. Not his first time either

 


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