collapse collapse

Please donate to help towards the costs of keeping this site going. Thank You.

Recent Topics

Follow us on...

Author Topic: The International Cricket Thread  (Read 873043 times)

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 14619
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8040 on: December 25, 2022, 11:20:42 PM »
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.

If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.

Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling.  There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins. 

Online PaulWinch again

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 50582
  • Location: winchester
  • GM : 25.05.2025
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8041 on: December 26, 2022, 01:43:25 AM »
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.

Online Rory

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8260
  • GM : PCM
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8042 on: December 26, 2022, 03:22:40 AM »
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.

Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.

Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.

Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 14619
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8043 on: December 26, 2022, 02:57:25 PM »
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.

Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.

Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.

Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.

Depends on the balance of the attack I suppose.  It's probably a bit easier to manage with an opening bowler, as you are really looking for that short, sharp burst at the beginning and then can be brought back.on at various points.  Probably a bit more difficult with a change bowler, as they might be looking at longer spells. 

I do find cricket captaincy quite intriguing really, especially the tactical side of things. 

Offline paul_e

  • Member
  • Posts: 34229
  • Age: 44
  • GM : July, 2013
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8044 on: December 26, 2022, 04:11:21 PM »
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.

If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.

Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling.  There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins. 

To come back to this, in a session you should be bowling 30 overs and balanced teams will have at least 5 bowlers (with 1-2 batting all rounders in there) so you're looking at around 6 overs per session each. Having 1 do a little less but be the big impact option is just sensible. For me that bowler should be Archer or Wood (or maybe Stone if both are unfit), someone who can be over 90mph for the entire spell. Stokes will largely have similar short spells but is more suited to stretching things out for a few extra overs if needed so he acts as the balance in our team.

I think a big part of our problem recently is that it's beena  while since we've had a genuine quick that we can rely on to be fit, rather we've had loads of 80-85mph guys who are more suited to longer spells so we've forgotten how to use real pace.

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 14619
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8045 on: December 26, 2022, 05:04:20 PM »
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.

If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.

Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling.  There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins. 

To come back to this, in a session you should be bowling 30 overs and balanced teams will have at least 5 bowlers (with 1-2 batting all rounders in there) so you're looking at around 6 overs per session each. Having 1 do a little less but be the big impact option is just sensible. For me that bowler should be Archer or Wood (or maybe Stone if both are unfit), someone who can be over 90mph for the entire spell. Stokes will largely have similar short spells but is more suited to stretching things out for a few extra overs if needed so he acts as the balance in our team.

I think a big part of our problem recently is that it's beena  while since we've had a genuine quick that we can rely on to be fit, rather we've had loads of 80-85mph guys who are more suited to longer spells so we've forgotten how to use real pace.

True Paul.

Online Rory

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8260
  • GM : PCM
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8046 on: December 26, 2022, 05:24:36 PM »
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.

Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.

Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.

Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.

I do find cricket captaincy quite intriguing really, especially the tactical side of things.

Oh me too. So many things that have to be considered and remembered.

Offline Steve67

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12748
  • Location: Down south now. Born in Aston.
  • GM : 01.12.2024
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8047 on: December 26, 2022, 10:23:55 PM »
We have some strength in depth with the bowling department.  Potts, Stone, Archer, Wood, Woakes, Broad, Jimmy, Curran, Overton et al.  Looking good for the Ashes.

Online dcdavecollett

  • Member
  • Posts: 3023
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8048 on: December 29, 2022, 01:53:32 AM »
Going back to bowlers' workloads Paul, I remember Devon Malcolm being ruined as a bowler in the 90s. He was seriously quick, like Archer and Wood now, but had to be used as a stock bowler as England's batting was so crap that they had to pack the side with batsmen to make up for the fact that many of them weren't good enough.

As a member of a five bowler attack, used in short spells as a strike bowler, Malcolm would have made far more of an impact than he did.

Offline tomd2103

  • Member
  • Posts: 14619
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8049 on: December 29, 2022, 10:03:26 AM »
The Pakistan v New Zealand test showing exactly just how bold and different England's approach was.

I also see that the Aussies absolutely smashed South Africa again.

Offline Risso

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86955
  • Location: Leics
  • GM : 04.03.2025
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8050 on: December 29, 2022, 06:34:07 PM »
Going back to bowlers' workloads Paul, I remember Devon Malcolm being ruined as a bowler in the 90s. He was seriously quick, like Archer and Wood now, but had to be used as a stock bowler as England's batting was so crap that they had to pack the side with batsmen to make up for the fact that many of them weren't good enough.

As a member of a five bowler attack, used in short spells as a strike bowler, Malcolm would have made far more of an impact than he did.

That match against South Africa in 94 though, bloody hell. Superb bowling.

Online PaulWinch again

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 50582
  • Location: winchester
  • GM : 25.05.2025
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8051 on: December 29, 2022, 07:35:59 PM »
Yep the first day of cricket I attended live - pretty lucky!

Online dcdavecollett

  • Member
  • Posts: 3023
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8052 on: December 30, 2022, 02:07:45 AM »
Risso, I know it's about impressions unless you have a speed-gun system that everyone is happy with, but I thought that day he bowled some deliveries that were the fastest I've ever seen. He clearly frightened some of the SA batsmen out.

It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.

Online Rory

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8260
  • GM : PCM
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8053 on: December 30, 2022, 02:33:36 AM »
Risso, I know it's about impressions unless you have a speed-gun system that everyone is happy with, but I thought that day he bowled some deliveries that were the fastest I've ever seen. He clearly frightened some of the SA batsmen out.

It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.

I know what you mean. I went to an ODI years ago where Broad's average speed was recorded as 87mph, and Mitchell Johnson's was 91mph.

It's the only time I've seen Johnson live, and one of only three times I've seen Broad, so I didn't try to extrapolate, plus I was square to the wicket, but there is no chance the difference between them was only 4mph.

They were both rapid, but with Broad I could see the ball through the air, I could see it reach the batsman and the 'keeper as he took it waist-high. With Johnson, you could see the dust from the ball pitching, hear the ball hitting the glove at head-height, and that was it.

Johnson is a total cock, but if Broad was bowling at 87mph that day, Mitch was bowling 100mph easily.

Offline Risso

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86955
  • Location: Leics
  • GM : 04.03.2025
Re: The International Cricket Thread
« Reply #8054 on: December 30, 2022, 09:22:23 AM »
Risso, I know it's about impressions unless you have a speed-gun system that everyone is happy with, but I thought that day he bowled some deliveries that were the fastest I've ever seen. He clearly frightened some of the SA batsmen out.

It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.

Absolutely. And Donald was an insanely quick and intimidating bowler himself, who bowled some vicious stuff in that series.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal