Post by: UK Redsox on January 11, 2019, 05:19:46 PM
Have hardly heard or seen anything about the West Indies tour, so had a look at the BBC site to see if there was anything on there. Seems there is only 1 warm up fixture before the series starts (not even sure if it is a red ball game or separate white ball ones from the site) which seems a really short preparation given that they haven't played for a while.
Post by: olaftab on January 11, 2019, 05:29:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 11, 2019, 06:00:37 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 16, 2019, 01:23:10 AM
Well just about finalised the trip to Caribbean. Fly off to Barbados on 17 February. Watching all one dayers and T20 matches in Barbados, Grenada, St Lucia and St Kitts. Decided to not go for Test matches as we don’t expect them to be competitive or much atmosphere due to current state of West Indies cricket.
Sounds terrible that mate! Not at all jealous!
Post by: cheltenhamlion on January 16, 2019, 05:56:48 PM
Well just about finalised the trip to Caribbean. Fly off to Barbados on 17 February. Watching all one dayers and T20 matches in Barbados, Grenada, St Lucia and St Kitts. Decided to not go for Test matches as we don’t expect them to be competitive or much atmosphere due to current state of West Indies cricket.
Fucker. I have 4 weeks in Burnham on Sea at various times of the year and another week in North Wales!
Post by: UK Redsox on January 17, 2019, 08:13:07 AM
Post by: Steve67 on January 17, 2019, 10:24:35 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on January 23, 2019, 02:38:36 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 23, 2019, 03:04:04 PM
So Broady is rested. Rash is in. Unfortunately from that point of view we are bowling first and Curran isn't on the money. I'm worried that we are loading our batting too heavily, to leave Stuart out is a risk, it could leave the selectors with a certain amount of egg on face...
if it came to a straight choice between Broad and Curran then I'd go with Curran every time. Broad's effectiveness as a bowler has been on the wane for some time now; previously he's been able to pull out a match winning spell when his place was under threat but he's not done that for a while now. Curran is the future and seems to have the ability to make something happen with the ball and score valuable lower middle order runs.
So far the ball hasn't swung and as always we look ineffective in overseas conditions without swing, even with a Dukes ball. Time for the spinners I think Joe.
Post by: cheltenhamlion on January 23, 2019, 05:19:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2019, 05:29:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2019, 06:12:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2019, 09:04:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 23, 2019, 09:27:35 PM
So Broady is rested. Rash is in. Unfortunately from that point of view we are bowling first and Curran isn't on the money. I'm worried that we are loading our batting too heavily, to leave Stuart out is a risk, it could leave the selectors with a certain amount of egg on face...
if it came to a straight choice between Broad and Curran then I'd go with Curran every time. Broad's effectiveness as a bowler has been on the wane for some time now; previously he's been able to pull out a match winning spell when his place was under threat but he's not done that for a while now. Curran is the future and seems to have the ability to make something happen with the ball and score valuable lower middle order runs.
So far the ball hasn't swung and as always we look ineffective in overseas conditions without swing, even with a Dukes ball. Time for the spinners I think Joe.
I don't think Curran is good enough at this stage to be given the new ball. Broad bowled really well in the warm up games and i still a very good performer with the dukes ball.
I can understand leaving Broad out in Sri Lanka when you are playing 3 spinners, but I disagree with it here.
Post by: Richard on January 24, 2019, 11:19:11 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 01:57:26 PM
It should be Woakes before either of them anyway.
Curran shouldn't be the one that's being debated, it's Rashid that shouldn't be in that team.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 24, 2019, 02:39:41 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 24, 2019, 03:41:22 PM
It should be Woakes before either of them anyway.
Curran shouldn't be the one that's being debated, it's Rashid that shouldn't be in that team.
You say that but I reckon this pitch will be spinning sideways by the end of day three.
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 04:33:21 PM
It should be Woakes before either of them anyway.
Curran shouldn't be the one that's being debated, it's Rashid that shouldn't be in that team.
You say that but I reckon this pitch will be spinning sideways by the end of day three.
It may do, but I think I'd still rather have an extra quick than Rashid, I don't dislike him I just don't think his bowling is suited to test cricket (except maybe as a 2nd or 3rd spinner on the Indian sub-continent). If we had a genuinely threatening leggie who created pressure at one end I'd be really happy having them in but Rashid has a bad habit of bowling mostly tame stuff with enough scoring deliveries that teams never feel like they have to chase after him. As soon as players start going after his bowling he becomes a threat, but they just don't have to do that all that often.
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 24, 2019, 04:47:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 05:05:48 PM
Our openers don't get any better do they?
Really poor shot from Burns to get out, he's better than that but misjudged the pace.
Jennings was just shockingly bad technique, so many things wrong with the shot and it's almost a perfect explanation of why he's just not good enough for test cricket.
Bairstow gone as well but I haven't got a massive issue with what Bairstow did, it was an excellent delivery to him and then pretty unlucky to cop his elbow and go on to the stumps.
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2019, 05:15:14 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2019, 05:26:23 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2019, 05:28:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2019, 05:31:48 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2019, 05:36:45 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2019, 05:38:36 PM
49-7 Struggling to get to 50.
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 05:40:14 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2019, 05:56:17 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2019, 06:11:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2019, 06:12:55 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 24, 2019, 06:18:24 PM
Shades of New Zealand last winter, something has to change.
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2019, 06:32:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 06:33:05 PM
It’s pathetic.
Shades of New Zealand last winter, something has to change.
That's the thing, I don't know what can change because the fundamental issue is that our openers fail time after time so we never have a foundation. With our middle order we'll often get our way out of it and survive but on a pitch with a bit to it and some aggressive bowlers like this you always run the risk of being blown away. We are desperate for a couple of decent openers, Burns deserves more time to try to step-up but Jennings is out of his depth unless teams open with spinners, he just can't play bowling once it gets up around 85mph+ and almost every test side has a bowler or 2 that can top that.
As a bear I'm worried that Rhodes will be high on the list if he starts the season well.
Post by: Lsvilla on January 24, 2019, 06:37:25 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 24, 2019, 07:01:02 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 24, 2019, 07:05:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2019, 07:10:51 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 24, 2019, 07:17:20 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 24, 2019, 07:51:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 24, 2019, 07:56:48 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 24, 2019, 08:05:53 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 24, 2019, 08:23:35 PM
Post by: Richard E on January 24, 2019, 08:27:29 PM
61-4. Not even two days in and 24 wickets have fallen.
61-5 now.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2019, 08:27:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 08:30:01 PM
Sam Curran absolutely is ready, he’s proven that. He’s just not a number one or two seamer.
The key thing with him is you need to be able to pull him out of the attack quickly if batsmen get after him. He's not quick enough to push through that, especially early in the innings. This is why I'd go with a 4th seamer ahead of Rashid unless the wicket is a dust bowl.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 24, 2019, 08:30:40 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 08:35:37 PM
There’s no chance that we will score the necessary runs to win this test.
probably not but fair play to the bowlers for giving us an outside chance with that spell. Still need to skittle them and then have all the batsmen find form from almost nothing.
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2019, 09:27:22 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 25, 2019, 12:10:12 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 25, 2019, 12:59:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2019, 04:13:05 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 25, 2019, 04:34:15 PM
Blimey we’re in for an absolute hammering here.
Two days to get somewhere around 600. No problem, that's why they packed the batting lineup ;)
Post by: manic-road on January 25, 2019, 05:18:15 PM
If I had shelled out a lot of money to go out there I'd be absolutely seething with that performance today and the preparation (or lack of it) that has gone into the tour. There has been something wrong in the set up fof some time now and it is almost as if they need to reach almost crisis point and receive the criticism that comes with it to find any kind of motivation.
If I'd have shelled out a ton of money to go out there, I'd have binned the cricket by now and be chilling out on the beach. The Windies batting today is making our effort yesterday look even more feeble.
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 25, 2019, 05:36:28 PM
If I had shelled out a lot of money to go out there I'd be absolutely seething with that performance today and the preparation (or lack of it) that has gone into the tour. There has been something wrong in the set up fof some time now and it is almost as if they need to reach almost crisis point and receive the criticism that comes with it to find any kind of motivation.
If I'd have shelled out a ton of money to go out there, I'd have binned the cricket by now and be chilling out on the beach. The Windies batting today is making our effort yesterday look even more feeble.
I wonder if our former manager has binned the cricket to go in search of an authentic Bajan fish kebab?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2019, 05:55:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2019, 06:47:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2019, 06:55:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2019, 08:07:01 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2019, 09:02:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2019, 09:19:36 PM
Root bowled more overs than Rashid, kinda sums up why he was such a poor selection for this match, Woakes or Broad instead would've given us much more threat. It wouldn't have made a difference because the first innings batting was abysmal but it'd have been nice to get 20 wickets.
Yes I don’t think the Curran selection was the problem, him as 4th or 5th seamer would have worked. Rashid unbalanced the side in these conditions.
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2019, 09:26:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2019, 09:30:23 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on January 25, 2019, 09:44:15 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 26, 2019, 12:10:10 AM
Yep, good bit of fight finally.
One of my real gripes with the England set up of a recent years is the way in which they just write off games as soon as the odds are against them and they just fold. It's almost as if there is a collective attitude of "ah well, this game has gone. Let's just get it over with and move on to the next one". Hopefully they will show some real fight tomorrow and at least make the West Indians work for their victory.
Post by: Rory on January 26, 2019, 02:14:21 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 26, 2019, 07:31:25 AM
The pitch has become a bit of a road so hopefully that will help them with some time in the middle.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2019, 05:43:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2019, 07:10:08 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 26, 2019, 07:13:00 PM
Very annoying that everyone has seemed to get a start and then lose their concentration, other than Moeen who has been worryingly poor with the bat for a while now.
A pair for Moeen, shit game from both of our two main spinners.
Post by: aj2k77 on January 26, 2019, 07:31:04 PM
Post by: Richard E on January 26, 2019, 07:44:21 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 26, 2019, 07:59:32 PM
Post by: Risso on January 26, 2019, 08:01:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2019, 11:10:39 PM
I still have some annoyance from Bairstow giving it the big one after that century in SL. His form over the last year or so nowhere near warrants it.
Post by: Steve67 on January 26, 2019, 11:50:20 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 27, 2019, 02:30:37 AM
I like Mo, but at the moment there’s no way he’s a number 6.
I still have some annoyance from Bairstow giving it the big one after that century in SL. His form over the last year or so nowhere near warrants it.
The batting line up just looks wrong altogether. There is no way that Bairstow is a test no 3. He's too loose and doesn't adapt to the situation. Stokes isn't good enough to bat 5 and Buttler is a spot too high at 6. Having Foakes as keeper at 8 is just a luxury, when Bairstow and Buttler are in the side.
As for Moeen? Well both his shots in the match have been pathetic. He does seem to have a "don't give a shit" attitude about his batting a lot of the time.
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 27, 2019, 10:41:52 AM
Anyway, as Jennings has to go, who should we bring in as an opener now?
Post by: tomd2103 on January 27, 2019, 01:19:12 PM
The selectors got the bowling selection badly wrong for the test and I'm sure that will be rectified for the next one. The batting, however, has been a concern for some time now and I just think they are trying to fit in too many all-rounders. The top three has been a massive problem for some time and Jennings surely must now be dropped.
If we had stronger batting options then I think it should probably have to be a choice between Buttler, Bairstow or Foakes keeping and batting seven. For all his talent, Stokes is batting too high at five and should be six at the highest. Commentators keep harking back to his innings in South Africa, but how long ago was that now?
Ali for me should be batting eight, as that is where he has looked most comfortable and has scored a fair few runs there.
Post by: Lsvilla on January 27, 2019, 01:36:55 PM
We looked completely unprepared. Whoever thought that just two 2 day matches against part-timers was enough to prepare for a rapidly improving West Indies needs sacking.Joe Denly to be given a go ? I think Jennings will get Antigua but failures there could and should see a change.
Anyway, as Jennings has to go, who should we bring in as an opener now?
Post by: Gareth on January 27, 2019, 03:11:32 PM
Burns
Jennings
Denly
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Moeen
Curran / Woakes
Broad
Anderson
With Mo’s poor batting in tests for a while Leach might be an option but can’t see this England regime making that many changes at once.
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2019, 10:14:16 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06z6x5p
(https://i.ibb.co/C0rjFBd/p06z6xk6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C0rjFBd)
Post by: Richard on January 30, 2019, 06:29:59 PM
Denly replaces Jennings
Presume Broad will play but not sure who for
Leach in for Rashid
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 30, 2019, 07:07:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 31, 2019, 02:52:12 AM
Broad will be in and depending on pitch it’ll be Curran or Leach.
Would have thought so Paul. Need a vast improvement in all spects from the first test.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 31, 2019, 07:15:29 AM
Is Woakes injured otherwise I can't believe he's not in the squad tomorrow ?
Denly replaces Jennings
Presume Broad will play but not sure who for
Leach in for Rashid
He’s not injured but he’s slipped behind Curran. During the last two home summers he’s missed a lot of Cricket due to injury. Curran stepped in and did well.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 31, 2019, 09:02:51 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 31, 2019, 11:49:50 AM
Hopefully Woakes will be allowed to play for the Bears if England don't want him.
I think in English conditions he's a handful so he's likely to still be around the squad.
Post by: manic-road on January 31, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 31, 2019, 02:49:14 PM
England 16-2.
Post by: manic-road on January 31, 2019, 03:24:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 31, 2019, 05:24:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 31, 2019, 05:44:47 PM
I think Jimmy, Stokes and Broad will all enjoy this because the ball is doing plenty in the air and on the bounce.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 31, 2019, 06:30:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 31, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 31, 2019, 07:17:35 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 31, 2019, 07:44:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 31, 2019, 07:55:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 31, 2019, 08:09:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 31, 2019, 08:12:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 31, 2019, 08:41:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 31, 2019, 08:54:00 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 31, 2019, 09:41:50 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 31, 2019, 10:14:24 PM
That ball to Root was completely unplayable
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 31, 2019, 11:35:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 01, 2019, 12:06:59 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 01, 2019, 12:42:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2019, 03:29:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2019, 08:47:17 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 02, 2019, 12:21:09 PM
Really poor in both these games so far.
Absolutely Paul, but the problems have been around for much longer. We simply haven’t been able to score big enough totals anywhere near often enough and our bowlers just don’t carry the same threat away from home when the ball isn’t swinging.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 12:33:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 06:12:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 07:28:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 02, 2019, 07:45:28 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 02, 2019, 08:00:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 08:01:04 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 02, 2019, 08:07:15 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 02, 2019, 08:14:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 08:18:44 PM
England, fucking abject. I’m still angered by Bairstow’s reaction to his 100 in SL, because it suggested too much entitlement in the squad. This batting line up is fucking embarrassing.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 02, 2019, 08:34:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 08:35:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2019, 08:41:32 PM
West Indies - really pleased for them and I hope they can use this as a platform.
Post by: Villa Lew on February 02, 2019, 09:02:33 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 02, 2019, 09:07:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 02, 2019, 09:12:55 PM
These are two of the worst displays I’ve ever seen by England. Truly diabolical.It's just like 1980s. Tony Greig will make them grovel era back on.
West Indies - really pleased for them and I hope they can use this as a platform.
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on February 02, 2019, 09:22:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 02, 2019, 09:57:00 PM
Agree with everything that has been said about England, but full credit to the Windies a superb performance under the excellent captaincy of Jason Holder.
Yep, terrible stuff from England. Some the shots to get out were pretty embarrassing.
On the other hand, hopefully this can be a real springboard for the West Indies and they build on this series so far.
Post by: Rory on February 03, 2019, 01:19:40 AM
Another abject and frankly arrogant performance from an England team that I'm really struggling to like. They've underestimated their opponents to a level bordering on disrespect. They didn't prepare properly, they haven't applied themselves and they haven't learn from their mistakes. They've got exactly what they deserved.
I think you have it bang on when you say you're struggling to like them. I feel the same.
Gone are the days when every lost test felt like a punch to the stomach - my initial reaction these days is 'those bastards have let us down again'.
But as most have said, fair play to WI, they've thoroughly outplayed us and, unless we really up our game in the next test, deserve the whitewash.
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 03, 2019, 04:31:27 PM
What happens now, who knows?
Post by: olaftab on February 03, 2019, 04:40:29 PM
Post by: Risso on February 03, 2019, 05:17:02 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 04, 2019, 12:31:51 AM
This England team has far too many "all rounders" and that makes the top 6 a very poor international class line up. All rounders by it's very nature are adequate batsmen and adequate bowlers at international level. This is not what's required. The top 5 batsmen MUST be pure batters and absolutely world class. Currently not even Joe Root can be classed as that. Furthermore Root has proved to be a very poor captain. And next time please don't go to play another international team and treat it as preparation for Ashes series. This has happened too often and must stop. Due respect must be given.
Root aside, we haven't got any world class top five batsmen and that is the problem. One by one, Strauss, Trott, Pietersen, Bell and Cook have gone and only Root has come in to the side in that period who is anywhere near the same kind of quality.
This isn't just a blip now, it's a serious problem and we need a rethink about test cricket. Broad and Anderson won't go on much longer so the whole set up needs to be addressed.
The thing that concerns me is that I just can't see where the replacements are coming from in the county game. Burns has one of the best recent records in county cricket, yet has struggled so far.
Post by: Richard on February 04, 2019, 09:16:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 04, 2019, 10:27:42 AM
I can't see how test standard batsmen can come out of the county game when 4 dayers are shoved into April May and September. The ECB are only really interested in domestic one day cricket which is why we now have such a strong ODI side but very limited options for test batsmen. The current Top 3 options of Burns Jennings Denly Bairstow are abysmal.
The thing is Burns has done brilliantly in 4day cricket for a few years. The issue, for me, is that our players rarely experience other conditions unless they play for England or if they get a Big Bash or IPL contract. We need to find ways of getting a lot more batsmen exposed to other conditions early in their career. I'd be looking at having 'youth' and B team tours be a much more regular thing and playing 5 day games regularly, I'd also have a clear progression through and stagger the tours so the Senior team is playing in conditions that the B team faced a year earlier. That way you'll have 13-14 players with recent experience in that environment.
Post by: Gareth on February 04, 2019, 11:59:52 AM
You do wonder if the young batsmen today see test cricket as the ultimate or whether they are focussed on the flashy stuff to get IPL or BBL £? We at Worcester have had Joe Clarke over the last few years (before he left to play for a test ground county) & he seems to have gone on 4/5 Lions trips (until excluded for current one after selection for his links to the Hepburn case) yet has not been called up for the main squad once - is it too cosy? Are they challenged enough to be smashing the doors down to be selected?
Post by: UK Redsox on February 04, 2019, 12:25:03 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/04/england-five-point-plan-recovery
Post by: Steve67 on February 05, 2019, 08:14:29 PM
It seems to me that outside of the tests there are no warm up games that are meaningful & Lions tours don’t seem to have any intensity so why not instead have the Lions in West Indies also for the two weeks before 1st test and play 2x4 day games AvB?? Surely the intensity will be there from Lions to want to prove themselves and work over the established players??
You do wonder if the young batsmen today see test cricket as the ultimate or whether they are focussed on the flashy stuff to get IPL or BBL £? We at Worcester have had Joe Clarke over the last few years (before he left to play for a test ground county) & he seems to have gone on 4/5 Lions trips (until excluded for current one after selection for his links to the Hepburn case) yet has not been called up for the main squad once - is it too cosy? Are they challenged enough to be smashing the doors down to be selected?
I think this is a really good point Gareth. I'd like to see them in and around the England dressing room, taken on tours and playing in the warm up games, even if we know that they are not up to Test standard as yet. A bit like letting a kid train with the first team squad at Villa. The Lions is great too, but let them sample the real thing and serve an apprenticeship.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 07, 2019, 07:14:37 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 08, 2019, 06:58:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2019, 07:08:09 PM
I feel like our selection is very reactive at the moment. Assuming Bairstow drops down the order that’s another number 3 gone.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 09, 2019, 12:20:46 AM
Bairstow has put him self under a lot of pressure as well following the reaction in Sri Lanka.
I feel like our selection is very reactive at the moment. Assuming Bairstow drops down the order that’s another number 3 gone.
Just saw an interview with Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain. Atherton was saying that he thinks Jennings will open and Denly will bat at three and then it will be Root, Buttler, Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Wood, Broad and Anderson.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2019, 07:40:01 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2019, 05:51:44 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 09, 2019, 06:43:27 PM
3 down for less than 100 again.
A top three of Burns, Jennings and Denly doesn’t fill me with confidence.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 09, 2019, 07:20:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 09, 2019, 07:55:35 PM
Really need Hameed to start the season well
He’s been awful for the last three seasons and in the 2018 county season he scored 165 runs in 17 innings. I think that the pressure and level of expectation has got to him and his game has disintegrated.
Post by: paul_e on February 09, 2019, 08:37:59 PM
3 down for less than 100 again.
A top three of Burns, Jennings and Denly doesn’t fill me with confidence.
I'm willing to give Burns and Denly a few more games, Jennings has shown over and over again that he's rubbish against pace, Australia will eat him up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2019, 09:00:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 09, 2019, 09:05:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 09, 2019, 09:06:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2019, 09:16:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 09, 2019, 09:21:30 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 09, 2019, 09:26:20 PM
Foakes dropped because the top of the order are crap.It's the cricket version of subbing the young right back when things are going pear shape.
Post by: olaftab on February 09, 2019, 09:27:54 PM
Fuck sake, he took the shot as the post was saving.Saved by the Post.
Post by: Villafirst on February 09, 2019, 09:55:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2019, 10:00:12 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 09, 2019, 10:06:03 PM
Point just made in the studio that although Burns and Denly didn't make a lot of runs, they did a decent job sticking it out in the early stages.
Post by: olaftab on February 09, 2019, 10:10:35 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 09, 2019, 10:20:51 PM
Better day for England but I guess we will find out a bit more when we bowl.
Post by: paul_e on February 09, 2019, 10:22:21 PM
It's a dead rubber in the series, so hard to measure really I suppose, but that is a much better day from England. David Lloyd made the point in commentary that the batting line up looks more balanced with Buttler at five, Stokes at six and Bairstow at seven.
Point just made in the studio that although Burns and Denly didn't make a lot of runs, they did a decent job sticking it out in the early stages.
That's always been my stance with the top 3, I don't care if you average 20 or 50 so long as you're regularly there until at least 5-10 overs after lunch, that's the job, get it right with any consistency and 4-8 will score the runs against tiring bowlers with a soft ball, today was almost textbook other than Root who really should've been looking to cash in but the pressure on him has just ground him down.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2019, 11:01:02 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 10, 2019, 12:55:46 AM
Root is a concern, he’s a super bat but he’s been falling over the front pad for a while.
Agree Paul. Ideally he would step up and take on the challenge of batting at 3, but he is seemingly unwilling to do it. I think it would solve some problems for us, but doesn't look likely.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 10, 2019, 03:40:11 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 10, 2019, 03:44:43 PM
That went well then.
Yet another collapse and we still haven't made 300 on this tour. I'm looking forward to seeing Mark Wood bowl on this surface though. 277 might be competitive enough but I'd have preferred another 50 or so.
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 03:45:51 PM
I still think that's a pretty competitive score though.
Post by: aj2k77 on February 10, 2019, 04:15:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 10, 2019, 05:45:38 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 10, 2019, 05:54:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 06:00:57 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 10, 2019, 06:24:54 PM
Another hat trick ball to come.
Post by: Steve67 on February 10, 2019, 06:45:28 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 10, 2019, 06:47:38 PM
Maybe Stone would have played in this test but conjecture doesn’t win tests. Still 74-5 at tea is good and highlights how we have missed raw pace in the first two tests.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 10, 2019, 07:02:36 PM
There has been far too many false dawns in terms off fast english bowlers over recent years. (Plunkett, Finn, Wood himself etc)
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 07:11:16 PM
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 10, 2019, 07:18:41 PM
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Completely agree but I can’t see our batsmen scoring enough runs for a hungry attack with pace to be able to dominate. Unless we win win every toss and ask the opposite bat!
Post by: tomd2103 on February 10, 2019, 07:23:11 PM
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Guys bowling swing in the low 80's mph are really useful in English conditions, but struggle away from home. I do think we need that extra bit of pace as an option when we play away from home.
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 07:28:48 PM
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Guys bowling swing in the low 80's mph are really useful in English conditions, but struggle away from home. I do think we need that extra bit of pace as an option when we play away from home.
If Curran was low 80s I'd be less concerned, that's roughly where Anderson is and he's found a way to be effective all over the world, getting down to mid 70s is the problem. I'm just glad that the inevitable tough series has come now rather than during the ashes.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 10, 2019, 08:32:58 PM
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Guys bowling swing in the low 80's mph are really useful in English conditions, but struggle away from home. I do think we need that extra bit of pace as an option when we play away from home.
If Curran was low 80s I'd be less concerned, that's roughly where Anderson is and he's found a way to be effective all over the world, getting down to mid 70s is the problem. I'm just glad that the inevitable tough series has come now rather than during the ashes.
I really don't worry about us too much at home Paul. I think even Anderson doesn't look anywhere near the same threat away from home. So done like Woakes bowls in the 80's, but again just doesn't really carry too much of a threat away.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 10, 2019, 08:36:49 PM
Post by: manic-road on February 10, 2019, 08:42:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 10, 2019, 08:50:38 PM
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Guys bowling swing in the low 80's mph are really useful in English conditions, but struggle away from home. I do think we need that extra bit of pace as an option when we play away from home.
If Curran was low 80s I'd be less concerned, that's roughly where Anderson is and he's found a way to be effective all over the world, getting down to mid 70s is the problem. I'm just glad that the inevitable tough series has come now rather than during the ashes.
I really don't worry about us too much at home Paul. I think even Anderson doesn't look anywhere near the same threat away from home. So done like Woakes bowls in the 80's, but again just doesn't really carry too much of a threat away.
Whilst Anderson isnt the same threat away from home, he is still a high class performer in most conditions.
The very minimum you will get from him away from home is excellent control.
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2019, 09:50:16 PM
Whilst Anderson isnt the same threat away from home, he is still a high class performer in most conditions.
The very minimum you will get from him away from home is excellent control.
Yep, his pace and line are solid enough that even in conditions that don't suit him he can be effective (in some way). Curran has shown in this series that he can't and his pace is a big part of that for me because that extra bit makes a huge difference, at the moment batsmen on wickets where he's not getting much swing can pick the delivery and adjust too easily.
I still think he's a fantastic prospect and would keep him around the squad but he really needs to work out how to deal with this. If he can't add pace he needs to look at what he wants to be and probably work on becoming a batting all rounder so he can move to 5/6 in the order (longer term).
Post by: Richard on February 10, 2019, 10:12:56 PM
Hales
Roy
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Stone
Root needs to prepare for the Ashes !
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 10, 2019, 11:55:28 PM
Looking ahead how about this team for the WC :
Hales
Roy
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Stone
Root needs to prepare for the Ashes !
In a WC at home there is no chance that Root is going to be rested. He averages over 51 in that form of the game, and at present, he himself is probably a better limited over than test cricketer.
I think the fact he doesn't captain the ODI side is almost like a rest to him anyway.
Post by: DB on February 11, 2019, 05:09:55 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 11, 2019, 07:59:01 PM
Nice to see a big Black Country Villa flag at the ground
There a Kent Villa flag too, plus a large St. George Villa flag. Great to see.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 11, 2019, 10:06:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 12, 2019, 03:02:52 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 12, 2019, 03:13:24 PM
Looking ahead how about this team for the WC :
Hales
Roy
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Stone
Root needs to prepare for the Ashes !
In a WC at home there is no chance that Root is going to be rested. He averages over 51 in that form of the game, and at present, he himself is probably a better limited over than test cricketer.
I think the fact he doesn't captain the ODI side is almost like a rest to him anyway.
Vaughan and Cook were on Five Live last night and both were saying that Root is a key part of the ODI side and is the glue which allows the others to go out and attack. He will almost certainly bat three in the World Cup and the opening partnership will be two of Bairstow, Roy or Hales.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 12, 2019, 03:16:56 PM
Looking ahead how about this team for the WC :
Hales
Roy
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Stone
Root needs to prepare for the Ashes !
In a WC at home there is no chance that Root is going to be rested. He averages over 51 in that form of the game, and at present, he himself is probably a better limited over than test cricketer.
I think the fact he doesn't captain the ODI side is almost like a rest to him anyway.
Vaughan and Cook were on Five Live last night and both were saying that Root is a key part of the ODI side and is the glue which allows the others to go out and attack. He will almost certainly bat three in the World Cup and the opening partnership will be two of Bairstow, Roy or Hales.
Yeah my thinking too.
Would love to see a WC team line up something like:
Roy
Bairstow
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Joffra Archer
Rashid
Wood
Post by: Steve67 on February 12, 2019, 10:21:22 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 13, 2019, 12:27:44 AM
A pleasing and comprehensive win but all the more mystifying that we didn't warm up properly prior to the tests. We cannot be so complacent against the Aussies, good job we are halfway through the championship campaign by the time it kicks off as we'd be undercooked again.
A frustrating series in that it seems we are no further forward in solving our problems really. Positions 4-11 are fine and we have reasonable depth there. The top three positions in the order are still unsettled, however, and we don't look any closer to finding an answer.
I watch the debate on SKY after the play and almost they call on there for Root to move to number three. I guess it might solve some of our issues if he did, but he doesn't seem willing to even entertain the idea anymore.
Anyway, that's test match cricket on the shelf until the latter part of the summer now and focus begins on preparing for the World Cup.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 13, 2019, 09:26:59 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on February 16, 2019, 01:41:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:29:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2019, 08:36:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 20, 2019, 03:04:24 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Khrp46h/78-FAF584-F7-D4-4740-A8-F4-9-AAD1261-D4-AE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Khrp46h)
(https://i.ibb.co/GTwf5CD/71-EE39-F9-824-E-4172-B506-A5-BCE21-DA92-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTwf5CD)
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2019, 05:49:38 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on February 20, 2019, 06:16:52 PM
Post by: manic-road on February 20, 2019, 06:22:44 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 20, 2019, 06:50:46 PM
Post by: manic-road on February 20, 2019, 07:01:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 20, 2019, 08:20:20 PM
A paltry 361 needed to win :o
361 is not far off par in ODIs now. 90/0 after 10 and a bit overs in response shows that this isn't a safe total at all, i reckon this will be pretty close unless something amazing happens.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2019, 09:08:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2019, 09:19:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 20, 2019, 10:18:25 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/hHmtmN2/83-DB4-CBB-69-C3-4-C22-83-EF-441-CAF91-CE41.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hHmtmN2)
Post by: paul_e on February 20, 2019, 11:15:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2019, 11:21:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 21, 2019, 01:27:47 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 21, 2019, 07:54:28 AM
I do feel that the white ball game is too heavily influenced in favour of the batsman but credit to Morgan and the bowlers who didn’t panic when under pressure from the boundary count, 44 boundaries is incredible hitting. If Gayle had stayed fit they’d have easily scored 400, as it was he didn’t run that many. Contrast that with Root who played a classic nudger and nurdler innings. He scored just 9 boundaries yet still scored 102 off 97 balls.
More of the same tomorrow please!
Post by: JD on February 21, 2019, 08:00:22 AM
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 21, 2019, 08:04:40 AM
Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
It was but when you consider that it took Gayle 79 balls to get to his 50 then both innings are quite remarkable in their quality and dominance.
Post by: JD on February 21, 2019, 08:22:55 AM
A great start to the one day series.
Post by: Chris Smith on February 21, 2019, 08:29:36 AM
Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
It was but when you consider that it took Gayle 79 balls to get to his 50 then both innings are quite remarkable in their quality and dominance.
True but you need to balance it with the runs Gayle conceded due to his inept fielding.
Edit: It’s also true that Roy dropped Gayle early on too.
Post by: Lsvilla on February 21, 2019, 08:31:05 AM
And the two’s he ignored.Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
It was but when you consider that it took Gayle 79 balls to get to his 50 then both innings are quite remarkable in their quality and dominance.
True but you need to balance it with the runs Gayle conceded due to his inept fielding.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 21, 2019, 09:39:04 AM
And the two’s he ignored.Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
It was but when you consider that it took Gayle 79 balls to get to his 50 then both innings are quite remarkable in their quality and dominance.
True but you need to balance it with the runs Gayle conceded due to his inept fielding.
He couldn’t run so the singles and twos that he missed isn’t surprising. I think his influence in the West Indies is such that no-one dare argue with him and in a strange way I suspect that their one day side will be better off without him.
Clearly they need to replace his runs but they seem to be making progress.
Post by: Steve67 on February 21, 2019, 07:13:13 PM
Post by: Ads on February 21, 2019, 08:33:12 PM
Power hitters up top and an ability to constantly nurdle singles and twos with Root. It's very well balanced.
We have bowlers that can take wickets at any point of an innings too. If we don't win this world cup, we never will.
Post by: olaftab on February 22, 2019, 04:09:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 22, 2019, 04:42:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 22, 2019, 06:37:50 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47329504
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 22, 2019, 07:56:21 PM
England played Ireland at rugby within weeks of the Pub Bombings. Because they recognised that it was nothing to with sport, and neither is this.
Watching the Windies England game, this Hetmyer looks a prospect. Hopefully he actually carries on playing international cricket and isn't lost to the money game.
Post by: olaftab on February 22, 2019, 08:03:37 PM
And yes India can fuck off. If they don’t want to play that game they can stay where they are. ICC need to grow a pair.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 23, 2019, 12:02:47 AM
Stokes is like Broad with reviews, in his own mind he’s never out or in Broad’s case the batsman was definitely out. It’s a waste and impacts on the team as a whole.
I do like Hetmyer though.
Post by: Villafirst on February 23, 2019, 06:28:55 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 23, 2019, 08:13:19 AM
Why was Chris Woakes omitted? He did ok in the first game which England won. Surely a better option than Curran? Unless he's injured?
He was rested. From what Morgan said at the toss they’re wrapping him in cotton wool. In other words he’s an important player but too injury prone.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 23, 2019, 09:03:21 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 23, 2019, 09:50:57 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2019, 01:30:17 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/QYkXQrx/C40-E025-C-8-AEF-4988-B55-D-8-D9-C4204-E513.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QYkXQrx)
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 02:01:18 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 02:16:41 PM
50 up for Bairstow, in no small part thanks to 3 consecutive 6s off Bishoo.
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Hales got 82
Root went cheaply
Morgan 93* (80)
Buttler 59* (47)
Morgan has just smashed a Holder over for 21.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 04:51:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 04:54:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 04:57:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 04:59:28 PM
Morgan 93* (80)
Buttler 59* (47)
To give context to the spell from Buttler here he's now:
98* (57)
39 runs from 10 deliveries!
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 05:29:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2019, 05:45:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 05:52:24 PM
Buttler gone for 150 (from 77), probably the best ODI innings ever, absolutely spectacular.
A marvellous innings but not the best ever. Viv Richards scored 189 off 170 balls v England at Old Trafford in 1984. The Windies were 98-6 and 166-9, he added 106 for the 10th wicket with Michael Holding. They scored 272-9.
Given how one day cricket was played back then I think his innings is easily the best.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16906/scorecard/64976/england-vs-west-indies-1st-odi-west-indies-tour-of-england-1984
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 06:29:11 PM
Buttler gone for 150 (from 77), probably the best ODI innings ever, absolutely spectacular.
A marvellous innings but not the best ever. Viv Richards scored 189 off 170 balls v England at Old Trafford in 1984. The Windies were 98-6 and 166-9, he added 106 for the 10th wicket with Michael Holding. They scored 272-9.
Given how one day cricket was played back then I think his innings is easily the best.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16906/scorecard/64976/england-vs-west-indies-1st-odi-west-indies-tour-of-england-1984
Ok, but it's certainly in the discussion, 54 runs from 11 balls in the middle was spectacular though.
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2019, 06:34:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 06:45:44 PM
Buttler gone for 150 (from 77), probably the best ODI innings ever, absolutely spectacular.
A marvellous innings but not the best ever. Viv Richards scored 189 off 170 balls v England at Old Trafford in 1984. The Windies were 98-6 and 166-9, he added 106 for the 10th wicket with Michael Holding. They scored 272-9.
Given how one day cricket was played back then I think his innings is easily the best.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16906/scorecard/64976/england-vs-west-indies-1st-odi-west-indies-tour-of-england-1984
Ok, but it's certainly in the discussion, 54 runs from 11 balls in the middle was spectacular though.
I’m slightly biased because Sir Viv is my favourite player of all time.
It’s always difficult to compare different eras objectively but in the context of the modern game Buttler’s innings was ferocious.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2019, 07:00:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2019, 07:16:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2019, 07:40:51 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2019, 07:47:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 27, 2019, 07:47:41 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on February 27, 2019, 08:48:13 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2019, 08:50:03 PM
This pitch is looking very much like it's a good one for the big hitters.Pitch is placid and boundary is set about 30 yards in from the stadium wall. However most of the hits from Buttler/Gayle etc ended up in higher tier seats.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 08:54:24 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on February 27, 2019, 08:55:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:19:01 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:21:51 PM
Rashid back in now Gayle has gone and will wrap this up.
His airy fairy shit buffet bowling gets on my fucking tits.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:25:32 PM
Rashid back in now Gayle has gone and will wrap this up.
His airy fairy shit buffet bowling gets on my fucking tits.
That’s a bit harsh!
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:28:13 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:29:26 PM
Rashid has been awful today. Wood and Plunkett seem to have some control but every one else has been poor.
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:33:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2019, 09:36:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2019, 09:37:43 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:41:19 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:42:02 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:43:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:44:26 PM
We score 418 runs. We should be able to defend that and yet the odds are with the Windies. Fuck Stokes has just dropped a catch. Elbow ball.
I disagree. The game is so heavily weighted in favour of the batsmen that virtually any total is gettable.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:46:36 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on February 27, 2019, 09:47:05 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:47:22 PM
We score 418 runs. We should be able to defend that and yet the odds are with the Windies. Fuck Stokes has just dropped a catch. Elbow ball.
I disagree. The game is so heavily weighted in favour of the batsmen that virtually any total is gettable.
Nah. I respectfully disagree. England are likely to win this now thanks to those three wickets in the one over, but let's be honest, our bowling has been terrible other than Wood and Plunkett, our fielding today has been very poor. Bloody hell, we win as I type.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:47:49 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on February 27, 2019, 09:48:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2019, 09:48:28 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:49:36 PM
I presume that this is the highest scoring aggregate game in history?
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:50:29 PM
We score 418 runs. We should be able to defend that and yet the odds are with the Windies. Fuck Stokes has just dropped a catch. Elbow ball.
I disagree. The game is so heavily weighted in favour of the batsmen that virtually any total is gettable.
Nah. I respectfully disagree. England are likely to win this now thanks to those three wickets in the one over, but let's be honest, our bowling has been terrible other than Wood and Plunkett, our fielding today has been very poor. Bloody hell, we win as I type.
White ball cricket has become slog versus slog. The quality of your bowling attack is irrelevant when powerful batman can hit six after six after six. I’d rather see an even contest between bat and ball than a slog fest.
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 09:53:44 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 09:58:34 PM
Very true VFL, totally agree. I'm probably wrong about Rashid too to be fair. Taking five in a one dayer is great. I just think he's a very lucky bowler and the only reason he was on is because Morgan had no choice but to bring Wood on earlier to try to get a grip of the batters, and was therefore left with little option. That said, Rashid did the business by making the late order batters make rash shots and they paid the price.
The best players have luck on their side, they make things happen. What I enjoyed most tonight was how they didn’t let their heads drop and as a bowling unit did enough to win.
When you’re up against it you need players to stand up and take responsibility. Wood and Rashid did just that and we have several players who can do just the same.
It’s rare for Stokes and Woakes to be off form together and other players stepped up and take the burden.
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 10:03:20 PM
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 27, 2019, 10:04:08 PM
Bowling against the tailenders!! Where is Rashid when it comes to getting the Gayle's out? Fair play for him getting a five for though, but Christ he does bowl some shit.
I presume that this is the highest scoring aggregate game in history?
Think the Aus SA game in Joburg still holds that record
Post by: Steve67 on February 27, 2019, 10:07:20 PM
Bowling against the tailenders!! Where is Rashid when it comes to getting the Gayle's out? Fair play for him getting a five for though, but Christ he does bowl some shit.
I presume that this is the highest scoring aggregate game in history?
Think the Aus SA game in Joburg still holds that record
Thanks mate.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 27, 2019, 10:08:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 28, 2019, 06:58:30 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/br6jJtt/3-D0-C8-E8-C-5-C81-44-AE-9-DA8-C319-CE709-B35.jpg) (https://ibb.co/br6jJtt)
Post by: Steve67 on February 28, 2019, 07:23:28 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 28, 2019, 07:52:50 PM
Some amazing stats on that. 15 balls to go from 51 to a ton! And yet, only the third highest scoring game.
It doesn't quite line up with the milestones but the Buttler innings contain a 13 ball streak of:
6 4 4 4 4 6 4 4 6 6 1 0 4
that's 53 from 13 balls.
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2019, 02:42:50 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/3cbNQc8/246-AC12-F-6742-4927-9579-1161-FCFC75-E1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3cbNQc8)
(https://i.ibb.co/xLnQ1Tx/51-CBA339-8514-4-DD9-9-C84-370-B8-A23-A488.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xLnQ1Tx)
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2019, 04:37:21 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 04:57:35 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2019, 05:00:06 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 05:07:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2019, 05:09:50 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 02, 2019, 05:17:29 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 05:22:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2019, 05:24:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 05:41:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 05:43:13 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2019, 05:48:41 PM
No ball for Gayle's wicket. Seems a bit harsh, especially as he chose to walk towards the ball.Bad rule. He stepped forward and tried to hit it for six and got caught the boundary. That’s out.☹️
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 05:52:07 PM
No ball for Gayle's wicket. Seems a bit harsh, especially as he chose to walk towards the ball.Bad rule. He stepped forward and tried to hit it for six and got caught the boundary. That’s out.☹️
Absolutely.
I hope England manage to keep Mark Wood fit for the Ashes series. Quality bowler. I am looking forward to seeing him and Ollie Stone working together.
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2019, 05:53:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2019, 05:54:29 PM
The tour has been way below par from England.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 02, 2019, 05:56:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2019, 06:17:35 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 04, 2019, 12:21:00 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47435883
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 04, 2019, 01:25:30 PM
Good news that Archer looks likely to be called up pre-World Cup
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47435883
Yep, Bit of a no brainer really. Our bowling attack needs that extra wicket taking ability.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 05, 2019, 11:21:00 PM
Is the next one not on telly? Can't see it on the Sky listings for Friday?
Post by: olaftab on March 06, 2019, 12:34:52 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 06, 2019, 11:21:02 AM
A win is a win but it was lacklustre performance from England tonight. Without Buttler, Ali and Stokes the team is very ordinary and Root needs a rest.
I think if you take players like Buttler and Stokes out of any team they're going to be noticeably weaker for it, that's the best 'finisher' in the world and one of the top all-rounders in the world. Moeen isn't quite at that standard but is another player that we don't really have a suitable replacement for so would be a big loss as well.
Post by: UK Redsox on March 06, 2019, 08:03:05 PM
Windies' fielding has been laughable, but well done Bairstow.
Is the next one not on telly? Can't see it on the Sky listings for Friday?
Strange this. I can’t find any tv coverage either.
Sky listing SA v SL highlights for Friday evening
Post by: Gareth on March 06, 2019, 11:45:59 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 07, 2019, 10:44:18 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 07, 2019, 08:42:05 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 07, 2019, 08:44:34 PM
https://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/cricket/england/news/sky-sports-finally-agree-deal-to-show-englands-final-two-t20s-in-the-caribbean_352644.html
Post by: UK Redsox on March 08, 2019, 07:58:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2019, 09:36:13 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 08, 2019, 09:48:19 PM
https://youtu.be/wSz78-xARe4
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on March 08, 2019, 09:50:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2019, 10:39:25 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 09, 2019, 12:23:01 PM
I’m never really understood why Jordan isn’t in the 50 mix, he’s a very fine white ball bowler.
Great fielder as well Paul. I agree with you, real talent.
Post by: LeeB on March 10, 2019, 08:14:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 10, 2019, 08:23:20 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 10, 2019, 08:54:24 PM
Post by: Richard E on March 10, 2019, 09:14:38 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 10, 2019, 10:31:55 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 19, 2019, 12:16:39 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/18/ashes-new-era-tests-names-numbers-shirts-cricket-england-australia#comments
Post by: Villan For Life on March 19, 2019, 06:48:05 AM
This has annoyed me far more than it probably should have. I just think its a really bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/18/ashes-new-era-tests-names-numbers-shirts-cricket-england-australia#comments
I think it’s a good idea and that there are other issues in test cricket that are more important such as slow over rates. Anything that makes test cricket more marketable without succumbing to the razzmatazz of white ball cricket must be a good thing.
Post by: UK Redsox on March 19, 2019, 08:15:46 AM
This has annoyed me far more than it probably should have. I just think its a really bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/18/ashes-new-era-tests-names-numbers-shirts-cricket-england-australia#comments
I don't see anything wrong with this
Post by: paul_e on March 19, 2019, 08:46:08 AM
This has annoyed me far more than it probably should have. I just think its a really bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/18/ashes-new-era-tests-names-numbers-shirts-cricket-england-australia#comments
I don't see anything wrong with this
Same, cosmetic changes to help fans identify players are ok by me.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 19, 2019, 12:15:47 PM
I'd also say that being able to identify players isn't an issue. The scoreboard and announcers keep you abreast of who is bowling and batting, and id say the field settings are far more important than who is in each position.
I'd also say if the ECB wanted to help promote test cricket, then a commitment to 2 tests a summer on terrestial tv would be a much better start.
Post by: olaftab on March 19, 2019, 05:04:54 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 19, 2019, 05:21:56 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 19, 2019, 07:12:13 PM
They have names and numbers on the back of the white shirts in 4 day county cricket. It doesn’t spoil my enjoyment of that form of cricket.
I wouldn't say it spoils enjoyment for me, but I just find it a little cringey. As I say, I've never been overly bothered about identifiying who is fielding at fine leg, and the bowler will generally be announced by scoreboard/announcer/commentator
There's still something special about test cricket and I find little things like this are stripping away at the tradition. I only hope this doesn't pave the way for more sponsorship logos on the front of test shirts.
Post by: UK Redsox on March 31, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
40 degrees in Hydrabad
Post by: UK Redsox on March 31, 2019, 12:39:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 12, 2019, 06:28:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 12, 2019, 10:22:08 PM
Great to see Hameed get a hundred. Hopefully he can put his horror show of last year behind him.
I think his horror show goes a bit back further than that, this is his first ton since 2016.
Lancashire were on the verge of releasing him last year so he’s repaying their faith. If he has a good summer then maybe he will get a place on a Lions tour. He’s a long way from test selection just yet.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 12, 2019, 10:26:34 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on April 16, 2019, 03:09:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 16, 2019, 03:18:54 PM
What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
Post by: tomd2103 on April 16, 2019, 04:57:10 PM
What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
The only real ingredient missing in the 50 over side at the moment is that 'x-factor' quick bowler. Not sure whether Archer is that just yet and whether this World Cup might have come just a bit too soon for him.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 16, 2019, 04:59:07 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 16, 2019, 05:23:52 PM
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Woakes has tweeted to say that his comments have been taken out of context to make good copy.
Post by: Lsvilla on April 16, 2019, 05:29:29 PM
Why I asked the question I guess - the Pietersen 2005 comparison is a good one but reality is Archer has only played 14 list A games and taken 21 wickets at 30. Hardly ripping up trees - but I do accept his T20 performances have been impressive. Sure he will get the Pakistan ODI’s to state his case.What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
The only real ingredient missing in the 50 over side at the moment is that 'x-factor' quick bowler. Not sure whether Archer is that just yet and whether this World Cup might have come just a bit too soon for him.
Post by: Villan For Life on April 16, 2019, 05:32:39 PM
Why I asked the question I guess - the Pietersen 2005 comparison is a good one but reality is Archer has only played 14 list A games and taken 21 wickets at 30. Hardly ripping up trees - but I do accept his T20 performances have been impressive. Sure he will get the Pakistan ODI’s to state his case.What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
The only real ingredient missing in the 50 over side at the moment is that 'x-factor' quick bowler. Not sure whether Archer is that just yet and whether this World Cup might have come just a bit too soon for him.
There’s not much else he can do other than perform in that series.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 16, 2019, 05:48:19 PM
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Woakes has tweeted to say that his comments have been taken out of context to make good copy.
Well he would say that wouldn't he. As an excuse it's right up there with 'I misspoke' and 'Those remarks don't reflect the person I am now.'
Post by: paul_e on April 16, 2019, 06:23:37 PM
What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
The only real ingredient missing in the 50 over side at the moment is that 'x-factor' quick bowler. Not sure whether Archer is that just yet and whether this World Cup might have come just a bit too soon for him.
That's about where I am. If it was a t20 world cup then he'd be a no-brainer choice but he's very raw in the 50 over format still and I'm not sure a series against Pakistan and Ireland will be enough to show anything either way. If he's devastating in that series then he'll have put his hand up but naming him in the provisional world cup squad tomorrow would be premature for me. I do think he'll be a core part of the England limited overs teams for the next 7-8 years after the world cup though.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 16, 2019, 06:39:54 PM
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Woakes has tweeted to say that his comments have been taken out of context to make good copy.
Well he would say that wouldn't he. As an excuse it's right up there with 'I misspoke' and 'Those remarks don't reflect the person I am now.'
Indeed, it does read a bit different in totality but he still said those words. Also it’s not a ‘moral’ thing.
Post by: Villan For Life on April 16, 2019, 07:21:17 PM
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Woakes has tweeted to say that his comments have been taken out of context to make good copy.
Well he would say that wouldn't he. As an excuse it's right up there with 'I misspoke' and 'Those remarks don't reflect the person I am now.'
Indeed, it does read a bit different in totality but he still said those words. Also it’s not a ‘moral’ thing.
The Beeb have amended their headline now. Funny that.
Post by: Villan For Life on April 17, 2019, 11:29:50 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on April 17, 2019, 01:06:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 17, 2019, 07:35:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 17, 2019, 10:50:24 PM
It’ll be interesting to see how Archer does in the Pakistan series. If he does well he’ll be in.
Yep, that's how I see it given how little 50 over cricket he's played giving themselves a chance to have a close look was always the sensible option and I think that's the point that Woakes and others were trying to make. I think everyone knows how good he could be but until he gives it a proper go we won't know. The world cup is the incentive that hadn't been there until the rule change so he'd prioritised T20, if he really wants to be an international player he needs to show that in the upcoming series.
Post by: UK Redsox on April 18, 2019, 11:46:33 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47976115
Post by: olaftab on April 18, 2019, 11:52:42 AM
Post by: olaftab on April 18, 2019, 11:54:01 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 20, 2019, 02:03:31 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on April 25, 2019, 11:23:06 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/23/the-spin-mexico-all-set-for-cac-2019-cricket-oldest-modern-sports
Post by: Villan For Life on April 26, 2019, 07:07:36 PM
The BBC aren’t saying why he’s been suspended but Cricinfo are repointing that he’s tested positive for recreational drug use and as he’s serving a ban it’s not the first time that he’s been caught:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/26610779/england-alex-hales-banned-recreational-drug-use
Post by: Gareth on April 27, 2019, 09:52:11 PM
21 day ban is also a joke for a 2nd offence - doesn’t suggest ECB treat it seriously
Post by: UK Redsox on April 29, 2019, 09:45:25 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48090055
Post by: Towser on April 29, 2019, 09:46:53 AM
My Ashes tickets arrived today, a pleasant surprise, I wasn’t expect them just yet.
My Ashes tickets arrived on Saturday as well, I assumed they would not be sent until June at the earliest.
Post by: tomd2103 on April 29, 2019, 01:26:44 PM
Hales is an utter prat, kick him out of World Cup squad now - how can they trust him not to do it in the competition? Also, good chance for Giles to assert himself as a take no crap leader.
21 day ban is also a joke for a 2nd offence - doesn’t suggest ECB treat it seriously
Yep. Zero tolerance policy should be implemented for that one I'm afraid.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 29, 2019, 06:01:03 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on April 29, 2019, 08:19:05 PM
He was extremely lucky to not face legal action over the Bristol incident, and you'd think would be attempting to be squeaky clean at the moment.
The issue may be, if true, that Hales management team claim to have been told that a ban would not affect his place in the WC squad. It's a big if, but if true then that is pretty poor from the ECB themselves.
Post by: Villafirst on May 02, 2019, 07:56:20 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 02, 2019, 08:01:59 AM
They have stated aims of being both the best and most respected teams in the world and making an example of Hales fits in with that.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 02, 2019, 08:04:14 AM
Hales is an idiot. Why put your lucrative career at risk. What kind of hangers on does he mix with?
As a white ball only player he has too much time on his hands.
The Royal London Cup finishes this month and the Blast doesn’t start until mid-July, he’s going to be twiddling his thumbs for a few weeks!
Post by: UK Redsox on May 03, 2019, 10:35:50 AM
It’s pretty stupid behaviour from Hales and he knew the consequences when he took whatever recreational drug he used. The ECB appear to have acted badly but Giles has done the right thing in banning Hales.
They have stated aims of being both the best and most respected teams in the world and making an example of Hales fits in with that.
Seems like if news of the ban hadn't been leaked, Hales would still be in the squad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48136883
Post by: UK Redsox on May 03, 2019, 12:23:29 PM
Quote
We know England have got the best chance of winning a World Cup, ever. And Alex Hales could be sat there watching his mates lift with the World Cup. And that's when this situation will really sink in
It's only when you come out of the other side of international cricket that you realise these are the best days of your life, so while you're there, it's important to make those sacrifices.
Yes, have a good time, but be sensible. The real good teams are the ones that live those words of team culture, and they're not just words on the wall.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 03, 2019, 01:17:05 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 03, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
Jofra Archer’s first ball in international cricket went for 4 runs.
Wasn't a bad ball per Aggers
We now have an all Villa supporting TMS commentary team with Ian Bell and Michael McNamee
Post by: paul_e on May 03, 2019, 03:01:18 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 03, 2019, 03:44:14 PM
Ireland in the death throes of their innings now and have, in truth, been totally out-classed so far.
Plunkett and Tom Curran have both bowled very well.
Post by: Dazvillain on May 03, 2019, 05:34:25 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 03, 2019, 07:02:17 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 03, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
Foakes showed great promise but he’s unlikely to be in the CWC squad. Archer showed promise in his second spell but unless he’s tears Pakistan apart in the ODI series then he’s one for the future.
Either way both players showed maturity which bodes well for the future.
Post by: Steve67 on May 05, 2019, 03:00:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 05, 2019, 05:23:46 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 05, 2019, 08:32:28 PM
He clearly has that x factor the rest of the attack (Mark Wood potentially aside) lacks. He's shown in big tournaments like the Big Bash and the IPL that he has the talent and the temperament to perform in high pressure situations against top international batsmen. I know Plunkett bowled well against Ireland, but he has been regressing over the last year and I see Archer as a far more potent weapon.
He was excellent today. Far and away the best bowler on show.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 05, 2019, 08:35:09 PM
Is Jofra Archer likely to be part of the test squad? Wouldn't be too shabby a replacement for Jimmy would he? Different types of bowlers but Jimmy can't go on for ever and I fancy the Ashes series will be his last for England.
I'm not too sure that this will be his last series.
Yes Jimmy is 36, but his fitness levels are still easily comparable to bowlers 10 years his junior. There has been no drop off in his performance levels over the last couple of years either. He's still a world class operator.
Maybe if he wants to go out on a high he might consider it, but it certainly won't be a case of his body or ability letting him down.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 06, 2019, 06:27:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 08, 2019, 02:27:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 08, 2019, 02:38:11 PM
15/1
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 08, 2019, 07:19:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 08, 2019, 08:21:33 PM
Little to take from the game other than that Archer is ace.
He was superb today, and Plunkett struggled immediately afterwards, I think Archer getting the nod looks more likely today.
My prediction for the world cup right now:
Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Ali, Archer, Woakes, Rashid, Wood
Harsh on Willey who does give us something different but him, Foakes, Tom Curran and Denly or Vince would be the rest of the squad for me.
Post by: Steve67 on May 08, 2019, 08:26:25 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 08, 2019, 08:34:04 PM
Little to take from the game other than that Archer is ace.
He was superb today, and Plunkett struggled immediately afterwards, I think Archer getting the nod looks more likely today.
My prediction for the world cup right now:
Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Ali, Archer, Woakes, Rashid, Wood
Harsh on Willey who does give us something different but him, Foakes, Tom Curran and Denly or Vince would be the rest of the squad for me.
I do wonder if Woakes and Wood will stay fit for the entire tournament. Wood is injury prone and I think that Woakes knee problem is much worse than we realise. We need both of them fit to be in with any chance of success.
And Archer must play and Jordan would be in my squad too as adequate cover for Wood or Woakes.
Post by: paul_e on May 08, 2019, 08:45:09 PM
Little to take from the game other than that Archer is ace.
He was superb today, and Plunkett struggled immediately afterwards, I think Archer getting the nod looks more likely today.
My prediction for the world cup right now:
Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Ali, Archer, Woakes, Rashid, Wood
Harsh on Willey who does give us something different but him, Foakes, Tom Curran and Denly or Vince would be the rest of the squad for me.
I do wonder if Woakes and Wood will stay fit for the entire tournament. Wood is injury prone and I think that Woakes knee problem is much worse than we realise. We need both of them fit to be in with any chance of success.
And Archer must play and Jordan would be in my squad too as adequate cover for Wood or Woakes.
I agree on the injury risk but I don't think Jordan will come into it, if any of the bowlers I listed miss out Plunkett will be the one they bring in.
Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2019, 02:44:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2019, 02:59:38 PM
Good batting so far, should be looking at 350ish here which is decent but not impossible to chase. Buttler and Morgan are batting beautifully.
Ha, Buttler went up a gear and this will be more like 370-380. Brilliant display of hitting from the big man, 50 ball century, fucking brilliant.
Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2019, 03:22:29 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 11, 2019, 06:11:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 11, 2019, 06:20:28 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 11, 2019, 07:06:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 11, 2019, 07:07:33 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 11, 2019, 07:20:14 PM
I think they need to rethink the different ball at each end rule, it’s giving the batsmen too much of an advantage.
Post by: paul_e on May 11, 2019, 07:50:39 PM
I wonder if part of that was knowing there was a big total on the board so just trying to play safe.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 12, 2019, 12:17:57 AM
They got much closer to out target than I though they would so a good game in the end.
I think they need to rethink the different ball at each end rule, it’s giving the batsmen too much of an advantage.
Agree in principal, but one of the issues with the ball in one dayers, was that teams would deliberately do all they could to soften it. By the 30th over or so it was generally closer to a tennis ball and harder to hit.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 12, 2019, 07:30:59 AM
They got much closer to out target than I though they would so a good game in the end.
I think they need to rethink the different ball at each end rule, it’s giving the batsmen too much of an advantage.
Agree in principal, but one of the issues with the ball in one dayers, was that teams would deliberately do all they could to soften it. By the 30th over or so it was generally closer to a tennis ball and harder to hit.
That’s a form of ball tampering then isn’t it? Keep one ball and let the umpire inspect it after every over. Cricket has the advantage that most, if not all, umpires have played the game at the highest level so they know all of the tricks that fielding sides use.
The white ball game is dominated by big hitters. It’s marvellous to see, especially when it’s one of your players flaying the ball to all parts, but something has to be done to redress the balance between bat and ball.
Post by: paul_e on May 12, 2019, 10:34:18 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 12, 2019, 03:35:37 PM
They got much closer to out target than I though they would so a good game in the end.
I think they need to rethink the different ball at each end rule, it’s giving the batsmen too much of an advantage.
Agree in principal, but one of the issues with the ball in one dayers, was that teams would deliberately do all they could to soften it. By the 30th over or so it was generally closer to a tennis ball and harder to hit.
That’s a form of ball tampering then isn’t it? Keep one ball and let the umpire inspect it after every over. Cricket has the advantage that most, if not all, umpires have played the game at the highest level so they know all of the tricks that fielding sides use.
The white ball game is dominated by big hitters. It’s marvellous to see, especially when it’s one of your players flaying the ball to all parts, but something has to be done to redress the balance between bat and ball.
I think there's better options to do something about it.
Limit bat size/weight. The sweetspots are just massive on today's bats. Many misshits go for 6.
Increase boundary size and go back to allowing 5 fielders outside the circle from the 15th over.
Have a slightly more pronounced seam on the ball(s). That way having 2 new balls could be an advantage to a bowling attack under certain conditions.
The game did get to a stage where not a lot happened during the middle overs and it was pretty boring for the spectator.
Post by: paul_e on May 12, 2019, 04:54:13 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 12, 2019, 04:57:15 PM
I agree with most of that as well but I'm not sure limits on bats are a good idea.
The sweetspots being so big would be the issue I have with the bats. Most international batsmen still clear the ropes when they miss the middle of the bat these days.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 12, 2019, 05:02:31 PM
I like the 2 balls rule. The one I'd change is leg side wides.
I'd agree with that.
The principle of a wide is a "delivery the batsman cannot play a proper cricket shot too".
Unless its down the leg side by a margin, that isn't true of a leg side delivery.
Post by: paul_e on May 12, 2019, 05:18:14 PM
I like the 2 balls rule. The one I'd change is leg side wides.
I'd agree with that.
The principle of a wide is a "delivery the batsman cannot play a proper cricket shot too".
Unless its down the leg side by a margin, that isn't true of a leg side delivery.
I think the main problem is that it frees the batsman to move around in his crease but means the bowler can't do the same. Something that's 12-18inches behind the batsman is fine, happy with those as wides, just like in the test game, but the ones that miss the batsman by an inch drive me mad.
Back on the bats, my worry is that it'd be putting the genie back in the bottle at this point, I'd rather see changes in other areas which reduce the impact of the bats.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 12, 2019, 09:03:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 12, 2019, 09:52:26 PM
I'm just not sure the benefit outweighs the cost.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 13, 2019, 07:25:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 13, 2019, 08:22:16 PM
Sounds like Archer won’t play tomorrow. I reckon that suggests they’ve already made the decision he’s in the squad and the others are fighting it out.
Be absolutely staggered if he's not in the squad. I'd have had him in the provisional 1
Hopefully he will get the last couple of ODI's at least to help acclimatise.
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 02:15:49 PM
I really can't decide on Willey, when it goes well he looks a fantastic opener with loads of movement and then does a decent job at the death but if he doesn't get any swing he's really expensive.
Plunkett just looks to be in poor form and is probably playing himself out of the squad.
93-2 after 16.
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 02:30:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 04:28:31 PM
301-5(44)
330-340 looks about par here so we need to contain them a little in the last few overs.
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 04:36:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 04:47:33 PM
Plunkett was just done for a wide (on height) but I'm convinced the batsman gloved it.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 14, 2019, 04:56:01 PM
Long way over the cut off point.
Post by: tomd2103 on May 14, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
and Woakes has a 4th, Pakistan seem to have really struggled with his pace, a lot of early and late shots, he's really unlucky to have gone for 67 from his 10, about 20 of those are from complete mishits.
Plunkett was just done for a wide (on height) but I'm convinced the batsman gloved it.
Looks like we'll be chasing 350 plus. They have relied on a couple of individual big scores in their two innings so far, but with a few more games under their belt Pakistan could be a useful outfit by the time the World Cup comes round.
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 04:58:18 PM
England surely going to lose overs for their reply.
Long way over the cut off point.
A big part of that (10-15mins) was due to issues with the screen early on, with lots of people moving around. behind the bowlers arm.
Willey has just got a c&b with a wonderful catch.
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 05:05:38 PM
The pitch looks fantastic for batting and anything like the middle of the bat means it's going all the way given how small the pitch is.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 14, 2019, 06:40:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 07:00:07 PM
An excellent start by Bairstow and Roy, 137-0 off 15. Whilst it’s a small ground, Bairstow’s swept six was a beautiful shot and Roy hit one back over the bowlers head and onto a second floor balcony of a flat just beyond the boundary.
It's a funny one, to have got it to a run a ball (pretty much) so quickly is insane but they're still 200 away from the target so there's loads to play for.
Roy gone now so how we go for the next few overs is important.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 14, 2019, 07:37:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 14, 2019, 07:45:59 PM
The slight problem we have is we’re batting so well in these warm up games that the likes of Stokes and Ali are just getting no batting.
Stokes isn’t bowling much either, just 4 overs today and 2 on Saturday.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 14, 2019, 07:48:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 07:50:24 PM
The slight problem we have is we’re batting so well in these warm up games that the likes of Stokes and Ali are just getting no batting.
Yep, pushed them up to 4 and 5 so we get to 234-2
No complaints about Bairstow and Roy being in this form though, they were been brilliant.
Stokes in now though so hopefully he can get a good 40-50 on the board.
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 08:55:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 14, 2019, 09:07:11 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 15, 2019, 09:21:18 AM
I thought that Archer might be slightly injured but per Steve James of The Times (handy to know the cricket correspondent of a broadsheet), he was being rested and Steve believes that he's already made the WC squad
Post by: olaftab on May 15, 2019, 09:31:15 AM
All done, Stokes and Ali got good time in the middle and we had 5 overs spare, great batting performance.England batting has been just awesome absolutely awesome. However I know Pakistan are no slouches but the bowling is worrying. Conceding 361 and 358 in two matches is not clever.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 15, 2019, 10:59:40 AM
All done, Stokes and Ali got good time in the middle and we had 5 overs spare, great batting performance.England batting has been just awesome absolutely awesome. However I know Pakistan are no slouches but the bowling is worrying. Conceding 361 and 358 in two matches is not clever.
Andy Zaltzmann had some stats (can't remember if it was during yesterday's game or the previous one) about England having the best run rate since the last WC of the 2019 WC teams but also having the second worst runs conceded rate.
I know that this has a lot to do with playing on high scoring wickets in the UK but it's still a concerning trend
Post by: paul_e on May 15, 2019, 02:54:15 PM
All done, Stokes and Ali got good time in the middle and we had 5 overs spare, great batting performance.England batting has been just awesome absolutely awesome. However I know Pakistan are no slouches but the bowling is worrying. Conceding 361 and 358 in two matches is not clever.
Andy Zaltzmann had some stats (can't remember if it was during yesterday's game or the previous one) about England having the best run rate since the last WC of the 2019 WC teams but also having the second worst runs conceded rate.
I know that this has a lot to do with playing on high scoring wickets in the UK but it's still a concerning trend
It is but it's one where I'm not sure how big a concern it is. We score more than anyone else so to make a game of it teams have to be more aggressive against us, particularly if they're chasing. On top of that we, as a bowling attack, seem to be willing to go for a few runs trying something different because we know we can chase down big scores or have plenty on the board.
Post by: olaftab on May 15, 2019, 03:04:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 15, 2019, 03:51:34 PM
It's a concern because at the moment England need to score above 350 to win a match. It's going to let them down in a crucial world cup match. In football its equivalent to winning games 3-2 or 4-3.
As I say, I agree it's a concern but I think it's difficult to know how concerned to be. To use your football analogy if you know a team is averaging 3-4 goals a game you're going to change your tactics. At the moment teams seem to have given up trying to stop us scoring them but instead are working on scoring as many as they can themselves, a bit like the Forest game in the Autumn.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 15, 2019, 07:20:06 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on May 16, 2019, 01:32:31 PM
It's a concern because at the moment England need to score above 350 to win a match. It's going to let them down in a crucial world cup match. In football its equivalent to winning games 3-2 or 4-3.
Agree. There are going to be games when the batting line up fails to fire up properly and we are left defending a smallish score. Happened in the semi final of the ICC Champions Trophy a couple of years ago and we never looked anywhere near capable of defending that score.
Post by: paul_e on May 16, 2019, 04:35:08 PM
Agree. There are going to be games when the batting line up fails to fire up properly and we are left defending a smallish score. Happened in the semi final of the ICC Champions Trophy a couple of years ago and we never looked anywhere near capable of defending that score.
In that game we scored 211, doing a bit of digging in the cricinfo stats I think there have been 67 matches between test playing nations in the last 5 years where a team has scored that or less in the first innings, the team chasing have won 63 of them. To me it seems obvious that you just don't win those games very often, regardless of how well you bowl.
Personally I think the more interesting stat to measure the bowlers on is the number of times we've bowled teams out, or completed 50 overs, for a 'sub par' score. I'd say, without accounting for conditions, that means anything below 270.
We've bowled first in 44 matches since the start of 2014, we've met my criteria in 17 of those, so a little more than 1 in 3 our bowlers have given us an 'easy' chase.
Then there have been 16 more where we've conceded 271-330 which is pretty much par.
Take away a handful of rain interrupted games and that leaves 8 games where we've been smashed around in the first innings and had a tough target to chase.
I'm not saying there's not room for improvement, just that I don't think it's a major concern. Sorry if that's a bit long and stat-y.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 16, 2019, 07:08:36 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 16, 2019, 08:18:49 PM
Archer and Wood (if hes the Wood we say in the Windies) will make a massive difference to this attack.
and a fit Woakes will help, he looked like he was getting there in the last match. Stokes hasn't bowled much this series either and can have much more of an impact.
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2019, 03:22:23 PM
Only been watch for the last 7-8 overs but we've been excellent. Not taking wickets but doing a great job of slowing their scoring down. Archer in particular just looks really hard to score against.
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2019, 04:34:34 PM
Shoaib Malik has just gone wiping out his own stumps.
Wood has been a bit expensive but got a couple of wickets, Curran has bowled really well and Archer has been excellent despite only getting 1 wicket.
Curran got a 4th now.
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2019, 04:36:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2019, 07:08:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 17, 2019, 07:42:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2019, 08:34:08 PM
Here comes the collapse. We’re already well into it, so let’s see if we can buck our trend for occasional shockers.
Odd as it may sound I'm ok with this, Morgan and Bairstow are massive gaps in our top order, this shows that we don't have the replacements for them.
Vince did ok without putting any pressure on Roy or Bairstow and denly has been really disappointing.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 17, 2019, 09:10:21 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 17, 2019, 09:11:44 PM
Turned out to be very useful exercise.
Yes, ideal preparation for the CWC.
Post by: paul_e on May 17, 2019, 09:12:25 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 17, 2019, 09:18:45 PM
England are favourites due to home advantage but once you reach the semi finals then it’s anyone’s to win. My four semi finalists are England, Australia, India and New Zealand. If England don’t win then I think New Zealand will.
Post by: LeeB on May 17, 2019, 09:52:25 PM
Absolutely no way we'll win it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 17, 2019, 11:01:22 PM
Post by: Richard on May 19, 2019, 10:02:44 AM
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Archer
Wiley
Rashid
Very strong batting all the way down plus 7 bowlers offering variety
Vince
Wood
Curran
Plunkett
Post by: Lsvilla on May 19, 2019, 10:09:25 AM
BairstowWill be one of Denly or Dawson for either Plunkett Willey or Curran. Harsh on whoever misses out.
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Archer
Wiley
Rashid
Very strong batting all the way down plus 7 bowlers offering variety
Vince
Wood
Curran
Plunkett
Post by: Richard on May 19, 2019, 10:09:58 AM
Post by: four fornicholl on May 19, 2019, 11:52:10 AM
Post by: paul_e on May 19, 2019, 11:59:47 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 19, 2019, 12:18:45 PM
Bairstow
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Archer
Wiley
Rashid
Very strong batting all the way down plus 7 bowlers offering variety
Vince
Wood
Curran
Plunkett
I think Wood has to be in the starting 11. For me him and Archer should definitely be the opening bowlers. We need that pace and wicket taking ability, and whilst the white ball just isn't swinging, Willey doesn't offer that.
Not sure Plunkett has done enough to justify a place in the squad. Probably Dawson comes in for him.
Post by: Legion on May 19, 2019, 12:54:00 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 19, 2019, 02:07:04 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 19, 2019, 02:08:46 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 19, 2019, 02:18:25 PM
400 lol...we are getting greedy now. 300+ is a very good score.
Not anymore. Especially with the roads the surfaces are in this country and the short boundaries. 330-340 is fast becoming merely a par score the majority of the time.
With the start we had to this innings we really should have been over 400.
Post by: olaftab on May 19, 2019, 02:24:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 19, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 19, 2019, 02:36:38 PM
400 lol...we are getting greedy now. 300+ is a very good score.
300-350 is par, nothing more in most cases these days.
Post by: olaftab on May 19, 2019, 02:59:33 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 19, 2019, 03:34:54 PM
Great stuff from Woakes who has 3 wickets for no runs.
A lot will depend on the pitches during the WC. If they are like the roads we have seen in this series then 300 won't be remotely enough the vast majority of the time.
Post by: tomd2103 on May 20, 2019, 02:13:00 PM
Bairstow
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Archer
Wiley
Rashid
Very strong batting all the way down plus 7 bowlers offering variety
Vince
Wood
Curran
Plunkett
I think Wood has to be in the starting 11. For me him and Archer should definitely be the opening bowlers. We need that pace and wicket taking ability, and whilst the white ball just isn't swinging, Willey doesn't offer that.
Not sure Plunkett has done enough to justify a place in the squad. Probably Dawson comes in for him.
Wood, Woakes, Archer and Stokes would be my four seamers. The rest of the XI picks itself really, but I think the other four squad members will be Vince (should have been Hales), two out of Curran, Plunkett and Willey, and then I think they might go for Denly as he can bowl a bit of spin.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 21, 2019, 08:28:35 AM
Also, with someone of Archer's batting ability coming in at 11. There's room to pick a non-batting spinner if Ali or Rashid get hurt
Post by: UK Redsox on May 21, 2019, 12:11:23 PM
Vince, Archer and Dawson in
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48347499
England squad
Eoin Morgan (capt, Middlesex), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jofra Archer (Sussex), Jonny Bairstow (wk, Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (wk, Lancashire), Tom Curran (Surrey), Liam Dawson (Hampshire), Liam Plunkett (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Vince (Hampshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
Post by: tomd2103 on May 21, 2019, 12:22:28 PM
Willey and Denly out.
Vince, Archer and Dawson in
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48347499
England squad
Eoin Morgan (capt, Middlesex), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jofra Archer (Sussex), Jonny Bairstow (wk, Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (wk, Lancashire), Tom Curran (Surrey), Liam Dawson (Hampshire), Liam Plunkett (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Vince (Hampshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
Can see the logic of going with Dawson. Very harsh on David Willey, but I just think Archer has that 'x-factor' with the ball that we have been missing and tough decisions have to be made at elite levels of sport. Would have maybe gone for Willey over Plunkett though.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 21, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
just haven’t swung.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 21, 2019, 07:37:16 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 22, 2019, 02:46:04 AM
Plunkett has taken wickets in middle overs, which is a gap without him. Willey has lost out because the balls this year
just haven’t swung.
Plunkett will need to improve. His overall form over the last year or so has been pretty ordinary.
If the white ball had a possibility of swinging, then Willey would have been in the squad. It doesn't though, and he's just cannon fodder at the moment.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 22, 2019, 07:03:45 AM
On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Neither do I, I prefer both of last year’s white ball kits.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 22, 2019, 09:35:09 AM
Post by: olaftab on May 22, 2019, 10:02:26 AM
Post by: olaftab on May 22, 2019, 10:04:07 AM
Yes agreed. Caught a glimpse yesterday and immediately thought yuk! England normally have the classiest kit in world cricket.On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Neither do I, I prefer both of last year’s white ball kits.
Post by: olaftab on May 22, 2019, 10:07:15 AM
Can see the logic of going with Dawson. Very harsh on David Willey, but I just think Archer has that 'x-factor' with the ball that we have been missing and tough decisions have to be made at elite levels of sport. Would have maybe gone for Willey over Plunkett though.Agree with your post Tom specially about Archer. Willey is ok but Archer is a potentially world class and needs to be developed. I hope he has a good world cup and than make the Ashes team.
Post by: Lsvilla on May 22, 2019, 10:11:46 AM
It’s a grower. Ordered one for my Mrs this morning as she wants to wear it to the Oval next Thursday.Yes agreed. Caught a glimpse yesterday and immediately thought yuk! England normally have the classiest kit in world cricket.On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Neither do I, I prefer both of last year’s white ball kits.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 22, 2019, 10:30:27 AM
It’s a grower. Ordered one for my Mrs this morning as she wants to wear it to the Oval next Thursday.Yes agreed. Caught a glimpse yesterday and immediately thought yuk! England normally have the classiest kit in world cricket.On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Neither do I, I prefer both of last year’s white ball kits.
It reminds me of the kit they wore in the 1992 tournament when we lost to Pakistan in the final. Not a good or happy omen.
I will reserve judgement until I've seen it in the flesh though.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 23, 2019, 10:00:02 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 24, 2019, 01:12:55 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 24, 2019, 01:44:44 PM
Morgan needs scan on finger, I really hope it's not a serious injury.
Shit. That's a worry
Post by: UK Redsox on May 24, 2019, 01:45:21 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 24, 2019, 05:04:31 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 24, 2019, 05:06:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 25, 2019, 07:52:48 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 25, 2019, 11:29:24 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 25, 2019, 11:41:39 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 25, 2019, 01:07:55 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 25, 2019, 01:56:30 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 25, 2019, 02:16:16 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 25, 2019, 02:29:01 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 25, 2019, 02:30:46 PM
Post by: LeeB on May 25, 2019, 06:23:35 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 25, 2019, 06:25:02 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 25, 2019, 06:39:16 PM
Once Woakes was run out that was pretty much it.
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 25, 2019, 10:07:10 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 26, 2019, 08:22:29 AM
Missed the first innings cos didn't realise it was on until I noticed some posts on here. Sounds like Archer wasn't able to bowl and we still kept them down to a score we would usually chase down. Not a disaster. And they only won because of a century from a cheating convict bastard anyway.
It was a weird game and had a pre-season friendly feel to it. Woakes didn’t field but he batted, Archer was on the field as a sub fielder when he slipped over, Dawson and Wood got injured so Rashid and Archer batted, Collingwood fielded wearing Wood’s kit. I was half expecting them to start playing the 6 and out and last man stands rules that we used to use when we were kids.
I know it was against the Crims but I couldn’t raise much enthusiasm for it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 26, 2019, 10:35:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 29, 2019, 05:53:47 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 29, 2019, 07:03:36 PM
I don’t know why, but I’ve got barely any confidence in us winning the World Cup.
I am concerned that we have peaked too soon. We played some wonderful cricket in the Pakistan series but looked ordinary against the Aussies.
Our first choice XI is a match for anyone so I think we can reach the semis but after that it’s anyone’s call.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 30, 2019, 10:08:51 AM
South Africa Amla, de Kock (c), Markram, du Plessis, van der Dussen, Duminy, Phehlukwayo, Pretorius, Rabada, Ngidi, Tahir.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 30, 2019, 10:33:08 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 30, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
Not the best start.
Post by: manic-road on May 30, 2019, 10:33:23 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 30, 2019, 10:54:02 AM
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 11:21:29 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 30, 2019, 11:56:46 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 30, 2019, 11:57:16 AM
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 12:41:02 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 30, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 30, 2019, 01:15:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 01:20:00 PM
Is there anything in the pitch that says c.310 is an acceptable score here? On the face of it we’re not rocketing along.
I watched about 5-6 overs (when Roy and Root were there) and at the time I'd say that looked about par. No great pace in the outfield and a bit of nip in the square. Looked like a good pitch to me.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 30, 2019, 01:25:53 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 30, 2019, 01:26:33 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 01:33:43 PM
Keep losing wickets at the wrong time. Think 320-330 is about a par score
Yep, we've just started accelerating the score and lost wickets 3 times now. That said there's now no point anyone coming in and leaving anything on the pitch so they'll just go for it. Stokes needs to take the lead though, he's well set and should be eyeing a century here. If he gets there we're looking at 310-320 minimum with the batting still to come out.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 30, 2019, 01:35:19 PM
Moeen seems badly out of nick
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 30, 2019, 01:39:14 PM
His batting seems way off at the moment.
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 02:15:16 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on May 30, 2019, 02:21:31 PM
defending 311 then, as above I reckon that's just about par, now we need to take early wickets and then let the pressure build on them.
Good test for the bowling attack in the very first game. Bowl well and we should win, bowl poorly and there is a chance they will chase that score down.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 30, 2019, 02:23:28 PM
defending 311 then, as above I reckon that's just about par, now we need to take early wickets and then let the pressure build on them.
Good test for the bowling attack in the very first game. Bowl well and we should win, bowl poorly and there is a chance they will chase that score down.
Rashid and Ali will be massively important, it has spun from the first over.
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 02:29:05 PM
defending 311 then, as above I reckon that's just about par, now we need to take early wickets and then let the pressure build on them.
Good test for the bowling attack in the very first game. Bowl well and we should win, bowl poorly and there is a chance they will chase that score down.
Rashid and Ali will be massively important, it has spun from the first over.
Yep, I agree, I think Root might well bowl 4-5 overs here as well.
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 03:04:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 30, 2019, 03:20:59 PM
Brutal delivery from Archer there to Amla. 145kph bouncer straight into the grille, having to change his helmet and looked a bit shaken by it.
Yes and he's retired hurt.
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 03:24:45 PM
Brutal delivery from Archer there to Amla. 145kph bouncer straight into the grille, having to change his helmet and looked a bit shaken by it.
Yes and he's retired hurt.
There's a rumour that he's failed the concussion protocols so won't be back.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 30, 2019, 03:32:25 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 30, 2019, 03:33:43 PM
Have seen enough from Archer, that he would be guarenteed a place in the ashes side
A nice selection headache to have.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 30, 2019, 04:11:47 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on May 30, 2019, 04:18:01 PM
Haven't questioned Morgans captaincy much, but have to say it was a mistake not to give Archer at least another over especially considering there was a new batsman in and he'd hust taken 2 wickets
Plunkett looks like the weak link I suspected he would and Moeen is backing up his poor batting effort with a mediocre at best bowling display.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 30, 2019, 04:20:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 30, 2019, 05:10:17 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on May 30, 2019, 05:11:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 30, 2019, 05:12:49 PM
Post by: paul_e on May 30, 2019, 05:36:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 30, 2019, 06:13:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 31, 2019, 11:09:27 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 31, 2019, 01:03:20 PM
Post by: olaftab on May 31, 2019, 01:29:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 31, 2019, 01:34:03 PM
West Indies will do very well in this WC based on their performance today and against England in the Caribbean earlier in the year.
Great to see pace bowling
Post by: UK Redsox on May 31, 2019, 01:37:00 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 31, 2019, 01:57:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 31, 2019, 05:42:32 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 01, 2019, 10:17:09 AM
Pakistan’s M.O is to start appallingly, so interesting to see how they respond.
The format of this competition allows for a few losses and minimises the chances of shock qualifiers for the knockout stages.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 01, 2019, 10:32:07 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 01, 2019, 12:39:54 PM
Post by: MoetVillan on June 02, 2019, 07:38:30 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 02, 2019, 07:59:50 PM
Real soft spot for Bangladesh, they were great today
They’re a good side and have improved since the last World Cup. It shows the benefit of releasing players to play in the various T20 leagues. England have also improved and again players having exposure to worldwide T20 has contributed to this. It seems that Pietersen was right all along, who’d have thought it.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2019, 08:11:37 AM
If SA had reached the target it would have been the highest successful run chase in a WC game.
I can't see this tournament producing the 400 plays 400 games that was suggested in places.
Whilst it's a shame that Ireland, Scotland, Zimbabwe etc aren't playing, this does mean that there's no games off from the pressure
Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2019, 11:38:13 AM
Aside from that, good start by Pakistan but England have tightened things up and built up some pressure and now got a first wicket. 350 is needed here so they can't afford to let the score drift much.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 01:00:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2019, 01:22:17 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 03, 2019, 01:23:28 PM
Post by: Damo70 on June 03, 2019, 01:26:11 PM
Fielding has been well ropey today
I don't really follow cricket. Does that mean the ball has hit the ropey thing that surrounds the pitch a lot today?
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2019, 01:31:04 PM
Just as worrying, so has Rashid
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2019, 01:58:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2019, 02:27:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 02:31:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2019, 03:02:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 03:03:24 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 03, 2019, 03:21:46 PM
Fielding has been well ropey today
I don't really follow cricket. Does that mean the ball has hit the ropey thing that surrounds the pitch a lot today?
Yes exactly.😊
Post by: olaftab on June 03, 2019, 03:23:47 PM
Real soft spot for Bangladesh, they were great todayYes they were. I would love to see them get through and beat either India or Australia in the semi and then gallantly lose against England in the final.
Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2019, 04:08:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 04:35:20 PM
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 03, 2019, 05:24:25 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 03, 2019, 05:54:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2019, 06:07:33 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 03, 2019, 06:18:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 06:21:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 06:25:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 06:27:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 06:39:39 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 03, 2019, 06:50:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 06:55:50 PM
Moeen is a problem with the bat at the moment, his form is so poor.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 07:16:40 PM
Post by: Monty on June 03, 2019, 07:20:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2019, 07:42:22 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 03, 2019, 08:10:04 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 03, 2019, 08:29:38 PM
Obviously there are problems to look at, but when Pakistan have to put on their best performance in ages to beat you and you still have two centurions in the innings then your problems aren't necessarily fundamental. Obviously, must improve massively in the field, but it's not all doom and gloom.I would disagree. England have been only winning matches by putting out their number 1 batting game. The 4-0 against Pakistan in the warm up series whilst looked good should have been a warning that having to win games by scoring over 300 is going to not work one day. The defeat against Australia was also worrying. The match today could have been the semi final or the final itself. England MUST improve bowling and fielding to restrict teams to circa 280 or below if they are to win WC. I do not agree with those who say that par score these days is 330/340. Anything above 300 is risky if you are chasing.
Post by: Monty on June 03, 2019, 08:34:17 PM
Obviously there are problems to look at, but when Pakistan have to put on their best performance in ages to beat you and you still have two centurions in the innings then your problems aren't necessarily fundamental. Obviously, must improve massively in the field, but it's not all doom and gloom.I would disagree. England have been only winning matches by putting out their number 1 batting game. The 4-0 against Pakistan in the warm up series whilst looked good should have been a warning that having to win games by scoring over 300 is going to not work one day. The defeat against Australia was also worrying. The match today could have been the semi final or the final itself. England MUST improve bowling and fielding to restrict teams to circa 280 or below if they are to win WC. I do not agree with those who say that par score these days is 330/340. Anything above 300 is risky if you are chasing.
All sides have to have their balance, and unless you're the 90s Aussies you're never going to be extraordinary with the bat and in the field. Yes, England need to improve in the field and they're not as strong there as they are at batting, but if your batting is that good then they simply don't always need to be.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2019, 01:05:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2019, 01:12:56 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 04, 2019, 06:21:31 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2019, 06:59:12 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2019, 07:05:36 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 05, 2019, 10:29:32 AM
Afghanistan have Leedsed this.
They're rubbish at chasing
Post by: UK Redsox on June 05, 2019, 10:30:47 AM
Good to have Prakash Wakankar on commentary
Post by: UK Redsox on June 05, 2019, 10:33:38 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 05, 2019, 02:11:47 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 05, 2019, 04:35:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2019, 06:28:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 05, 2019, 06:32:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 05, 2019, 08:53:11 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 05, 2019, 09:07:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2019, 09:18:58 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 06, 2019, 11:13:26 AM
Post by: manic-road on June 06, 2019, 11:20:48 AM
Windies bowlers are pummelling the Aussies
Lovely to see, Aussies 40-4.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 06, 2019, 11:48:20 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 06, 2019, 02:07:51 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 06, 2019, 06:03:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2019, 06:24:09 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
Glad that I didn't. It's miserable down here and I doubt a ball will be bowled
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2019, 07:02:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 10:09:53 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 08, 2019, 10:18:10 AM
Blimey I know Mo’s form with the bat is bad, but Plunkett in for him does leave a long(albeit useful) tail.
I think with a small ground and a green tinged pitch then it’s a good choice. Moeen could potentially have been carted to all corners. Plunkett is a wicket taker who should thrive in typically British conditions.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 11:17:20 AM
Weird there are lots of empty seats.
Post by: olaftab on June 08, 2019, 11:52:13 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 11:54:12 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 12:44:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 12:47:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 01:06:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 01:39:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 08, 2019, 03:31:04 PM
Hope Buttler’s injury is only minor, he’s clearly suffering a bit.
Bairstow is keeping wicket
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 07:33:45 PM
Post by: Richard on June 08, 2019, 07:54:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2019, 08:16:09 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 08, 2019, 08:24:18 PM
Post by: Risso on June 09, 2019, 12:29:43 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 09, 2019, 10:05:09 AM
I'm off to watch and support Sri Lanka on Saturday, at The Oval.It will be nice to see Aussies take 3 beatings this week starting with India today, Pakistan on Wednesday and hopefully with your support on Saturday against Sri Lanka.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 09, 2019, 02:51:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 09, 2019, 04:10:08 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 09, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
They’ve got to do something about these bails/stumps, it’s bloody ridiculous.
The light mechanism and sensors must have made them heavier. It really needs to be addressed.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 09, 2019, 07:06:46 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 10, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 11, 2019, 08:11:51 AM
Another of the younger ones I like, is Rob Key
Post by: Risso on June 12, 2019, 04:06:50 PM
I'm off to watch and support Sri Lanka on Saturday, at The Oval.It will be nice to see Aussies take 3 beatings this week starting with India today, Pakistan on Wednesday and hopefully with your support on Saturday against Sri Lanka.
Hope so!
Going with a Sri Lankan mate sand some of his friends. Got a Sri Lankan top to wear and everything.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2019, 12:56:00 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2019, 07:23:59 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 13, 2019, 09:18:40 PM
The rain is killing this World Cup at the moment.
It is. I know its been a few days of persistant rain, but to not have back up days for the matches is a big mistake.
Not only for the teams, but also for the people who have paid for tickets.
Post by: JD on June 14, 2019, 08:43:27 AM
It's getting really frustrating now.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2019, 08:47:15 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2637487
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 09:25:01 AM
The rain is killing this World Cup at the moment.
It is. I know its been a few days of persistant rain, but to not have back up days for the matches is a big mistake.
I think that reserve days would be a logistical nightmare.
It would be possible if the format was two groups then a reserve day could be scheduled but in a round robin tournament it would be very difficult.
There are reserve days for the semis and final but not for the group stage.
Post by: Nev on June 14, 2019, 09:32:15 AM
The rain is killing this World Cup at the moment.
It is. I know its been a few days of persistant rain, but to not have back up days for the matches is a big mistake.
I think that reserve days would be a logistical nightmare.
It would be possible if the format was two groups then a reserve day could be scheduled but in a round robin tournament it would be very difficult.
There are reserve days for the semis and final but not for the group stage.
The organisers have already given reasons why there are no reserve days and it is all down to the logistics of staging the games re staffing etc.
The weather has blown a hole in the momentum of the tournament this week, we should get a full match today with England and I hope the big one at Old Trafford doesn't get interrupted on Sunday.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2019, 10:06:30 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 14, 2019, 10:27:32 AM
And whoever chose to go with no reserve days should be sacked, hung, drawn and quartered. Then sacked again, just to be on the safe side.
Post by: Fred Crump on June 14, 2019, 11:00:26 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 11:34:05 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 11:36:03 AM
Bollocks. Gayle dropped. Big moment which I hope we don’t pay dearly for
Nope, got him pretty cheaply in the end and then added Hope as well so 55-3 after 13 and a bit, which is a very strong position.
Post by: Fred Crump on June 14, 2019, 11:38:48 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 12:25:06 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 14, 2019, 12:30:30 PM
Rashid not offering any control is a bit of a worry
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 12:46:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 12:47:18 PM
Post by: Fred Crump on June 14, 2019, 12:50:16 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 12:50:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 14, 2019, 12:52:24 PM
Roy’s injury means that he won’t field for the remainder of the innings so can’t open and will come in at 7.
Thankfully seen just beyond the boundary rope, so injury cannot be too bad.
Easy game to rest him for against Afghanistan on Tuesday too.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 12:53:48 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 14, 2019, 12:55:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 12:59:04 PM
So do we bump everyone up a place in the batting line up or have Buttler open with Bairstow?
I'd go with Stokes.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 14, 2019, 12:59:37 PM
So do we bump everyone up a place in the batting line up or have Buttler open with Bairstow?
Doesn't appear as though its going to be a huge total to chase, so I wouldn't open with Buttler. Just bump everyone up
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 01:01:24 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 14, 2019, 01:02:25 PM
Definitely time to get a quick bowler on.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2019, 01:03:31 PM
poor drop by Woakes just before
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 01:06:14 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 01:09:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 01:24:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 01:29:10 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 14, 2019, 01:31:54 PM
Injuries beyond a joke though. 2 innocous incidents. Thankfully Afghanistan and Sri Lanka are the next 2 games.
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 01:33:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 01:55:06 PM
We can expect a barrage from their bowlers so if we bat sensibly then we should be untroubled. You never know what to expect from this Windies side, they have been a thorn in our side for a few years now and so I’m just cautiously optimistic.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 02:08:57 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 14, 2019, 02:11:56 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 02:52:49 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 02:56:55 PM
In the reply Root and Bairstow have started very well, playing some good shots and looking like a pairing who know they've got no scoreboard pressure on them.
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 03:43:07 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 03:52:45 PM
Woakes at 3, that's bold.
He’s not a bad batsman and has a test match hundred. I think he needs time out in the middle.
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 04:08:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 05:01:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2019, 05:05:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 05:14:57 PM
When the Windies are good then they’re brilliant, when they’re bad then they’re truly awful. Their body language in the field was poor and they seemed to give up very quickly. Even Jason Holder looked flat. They looked like they didn’t want to be there.
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 05:19:27 PM
That was much easier than I anticipated.
When the Windies are good then they’re brilliant, when they’re bad then they’re truly awful. Their body language in the field was poor and they seemed to give up very quickly. Even Jason Holder looked flat. They looked like they didn’t want to be there.
I thought they looked up for it early in their own innings but the 2 Root wickets completely deflated them and they looked resigned to defeat after that. For me it was an exceptional bowling effort and then a simple, and highly professional batting performance, especially with 2 of the top 4 missing.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2019, 06:10:29 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2019, 07:08:33 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 14, 2019, 07:25:14 PM
A little bit of a dilemma now with 2 “lesser” games coming up whether to rest Roy and Morgan but need to avoid cock ups.
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 08:08:16 PM
I watch us a lot home and away and was worried today was going to be a real tough one especially having suffered one defeat already - but that was impressive - I accept the toss helped but had to say to my missus when Joe was going that we’re quite good at this game !
A little bit of a dilemma now with 2 “lesser” games coming up whether to rest Roy and Morgan but need to avoid cock ups.
I'd give them 1 game each I think and let Vince get a couple of matches.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 14, 2019, 08:15:22 PM
I agree. Can’t see Dawson getting too much action at the moment and wouldn’t want Vince to be thrown into a knockout game with no cricket for a month. Overall I'm pretty confident though that we can win this thing!I watch us a lot home and away and was worried today was going to be a real tough one especially having suffered one defeat already - but that was impressive - I accept the toss helped but had to say to my missus when Joe was going that we’re quite good at this game !
A little bit of a dilemma now with 2 “lesser” games coming up whether to rest Roy and Morgan but need to avoid cock ups.
I'd give them 1 game each I think and let Vince get a couple of matches.
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2019, 08:22:37 PM
I agree. Can’t see Dawson getting too much action at the moment and wouldn’t want Vince to be thrown into a knockout game with no cricket for a month. Overall I'm pretty confident though that we can win this thing!I watch us a lot home and away and was worried today was going to be a real tough one especially having suffered one defeat already - but that was impressive - I accept the toss helped but had to say to my missus when Joe was going that we’re quite good at this game !
A little bit of a dilemma now with 2 “lesser” games coming up whether to rest Roy and Morgan but need to avoid cock ups.
I'd give them 1 game each I think and let Vince get a couple of matches.
Yeah, I'd have wanted Vince to get a couple of games regardless so it being an semi-enforced change doesn't really matter.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 14, 2019, 09:34:14 PM
The New Zealand team Nelson played first-class cricket from 1874 to 1891. In both their first and last first-class innings they were dismissed for 111.
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2019, 09:37:40 PM
As I said, really good performance in what could have been a tough game. Those injuries just need to heal.Today England exercised proper control in a match. This is the best result so far.
Post by: Steve67 on June 14, 2019, 09:53:13 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 15, 2019, 12:15:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 15, 2019, 12:38:01 PM
Without Googling, does anyone know the capital of Sri Lanka? Clue: it's not Colombo.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 15, 2019, 01:08:20 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 15, 2019, 01:29:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 15, 2019, 02:14:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 15, 2019, 05:16:34 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 15, 2019, 05:26:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 15, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 15, 2019, 05:52:28 PM
Post by: Risso on June 15, 2019, 06:43:01 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 15, 2019, 10:39:42 PM
Mon Sri Lanka. I've always liked that cheating no ball bastard Malinga, honest.I have never ever understood why he is allowed to do what he does? Whatever it is it's not legal and not bowling.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 15, 2019, 11:06:10 PM
Except that it is and it is.Mon Sri Lanka. I've always liked that cheating no ball bastard Malinga, honest.I have never ever understood why he is allowed to do what he does? Whatever it is it's not legal and not bowling.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 02:25:57 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 16, 2019, 09:21:16 AM
He's a chucker.
His elbow's not over-flexed and his arm is above the horizontal.
How's that chucking ?
Post by: manic-road on June 16, 2019, 10:04:34 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 10:38:02 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 10:38:27 AM
He's a chucker.
His elbow's not over-flexed and his arm is above the horizontal.
How's that chucking ?
The New York Yankees hat is a giveaway.
Post by: olaftab on June 16, 2019, 10:41:52 AM
Needs to bowl either overarm or underarm not chuck it like a stone. Should have been chucked out of the game a long time ago.He's a chucker.
His elbow's not over-flexed and his arm is above the horizontal.
How's that chucking ?
Post by: olaftab on June 16, 2019, 10:47:04 AM
Crowd at India Pakistan game are pretty vocal even at the toss. 100,000 ticket applications were made for this game.This from the BBC:
"It is one of sport's biggest games and bitterest rivalries which is likely to draw a global television audience of one billion.
More than 700,000 people applied for tickets to the game."
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 11:10:35 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 11:22:04 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1140150828277387264
Post by: hilts_coolerking on June 16, 2019, 11:39:20 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 16, 2019, 11:55:29 AM
I can't remember Pakistan ever not being shit at fielding.It's embedded historically in the team culture. They have dropped 8 catches so far in this WC matched by no one else but....shockingly England.
Post by: olaftab on June 16, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
Looking like the PM was right, so far...Yes he was and Sarfraz has messed up his decision making in every match so far. However PM has really lit the fire by referring to his players as "Raillu Kattas". Loosely translated as aimless wandering buffalo calf and is used offensively to describe a wasteful young man.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1140150828277387264
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 04:06:35 PM
Sadly, this looks like a non-contest.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 05:34:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 16, 2019, 07:24:28 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 16, 2019, 07:32:03 PM
The ICC bowed to commercial pressures.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 16, 2019, 09:41:37 PM
Looking like the PM was right, so far...Yes he was and Sarfraz has messed up his decision making in every match so far. However PM has really lit the fire by referring to his players as "Raillu Kattas". Loosely translated as aimless wandering buffalo calf and is used offensively to describe a wasteful young man.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1140150828277387264
A commentator earlier, sorry can’t remember which one, said that PM IK had spoken to the team pre-WC and said that pace bowling and taking wickets was key to success in England. They ignored him and went for spinners and just trying to stop runs.
Coaches and captain might want to take a long vacation before returning home.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 16, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
Looking like the PM was right, so far...Yes he was and Sarfraz has messed up his decision making in every match so far. However PM has really lit the fire by referring to his players as "Raillu Kattas". Loosely translated as aimless wandering buffalo calf and is used offensively to describe a wasteful young man.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1140150828277387264
A commentator earlier, sorry can’t remember which one, said that PM IK had spoken to the team pre-WC and said that pace bowling and taking wickets was key to success in England. They ignored him and went for spinners and just trying to stop runs.
Coaches and captain might want to take a long vacation before returning home.
Bloody Hell, mate. You've gone native.
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2019, 06:57:59 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2019, 07:01:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 17, 2019, 07:29:43 PM
It seems that this is a tournament too far for Gayle and the logic of selecting Andre Russell when he’s no more than 50% fit is questionable.
I grew up admiring the way the Windies played cricket, it’s sad that they are such a poor side now.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 08:33:11 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 11:16:37 AM
53-1 from 11.3
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 11:38:38 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 12:36:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 12:38:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 12:39:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 12:55:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 01:13:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 01:23:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 01:32:24 PM
Post by: Colhint on June 18, 2019, 01:33:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 01:39:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 01:45:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 01:56:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 02:13:27 PM
Slow going at the moment.this was very true at the time and you'd have looked at the score then and thought 300-320 was a good score, getting near to 400 from there is insane.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 02:19:56 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 18, 2019, 03:27:19 PM
One of these days a top order batsman will bat for most of the overs and score 200 plus and his team score nearly 500.
As long as (a) he’s English and (b) we do it against the Crims in the final.
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 04:22:44 PM
Violent hitting by Morgan.
One of these days a top order batsman will bat for most of the overs and score 200 plus and his team score nearly 500.
As long as (a) he’s English and (b) we do it against the Crims in the final.
Imagine if it had been Buttler at his best at the other end for 20 overs.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 18, 2019, 04:28:05 PM
Violent hitting by Morgan.
One of these days a top order batsman will bat for most of the overs and score 200 plus and his team score nearly 500.
As long as (a) he’s English and (b) we do it against the Crims in the final.
Imagine if it had been Buttler at his best at the other end for 20 overs.
That would be something to see.
I don’t actually think it will happen in this tournament where the pitches are prepared to ICC instructions/specifications.
It’s more likely to happen in an international series next summer when we prepare the pitches without outside governance.
Edit I’ve just looked at the schedule for next summer, we are playing the Crims in a 3 game ODI series next year so we might do it against them!
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 04:37:25 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 04:44:10 PM
That was a nasty bouncer, batsman hopefully is ok.
brilliant delivery to be fair but yes, nasty contact, it shows why helmets are so important though. Thankfully he looks shaken but ok to carry on. I wouldn't want Wood to change his bowling though, he's got them really rattled here.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 18, 2019, 04:47:22 PM
That was a nasty bouncer, batsman hopefully is ok.
brilliant delivery to be fair but yes, nasty contact, it shows why helmets are so important though. Thankfully he looks shaken but ok to carry on. I wouldn't want Wood to change his bowling though, he's got them really rattled here.
He’s batting on so he’s a courageous individual. I thought that the rules are now that you automatically go off in these circumstances so you can be checked over by the medics.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 05:04:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 05:08:44 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 18, 2019, 05:17:20 PM
Game is of course well won, but we shouldn't have let our intensity drop like this.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 05:22:10 PM
Bit disappointing that we are just going through the motions in the field.
Game is of course well won, but we shouldn't have let our intensity drop like this.
No it’s been a bit flat.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 05:26:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 05:26:22 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 18, 2019, 05:31:48 PM
Root is clearly struggling with his back, not sure why he’s fielding.
At the end of our innings he was stood by the dressing room door to greet Ali and Woakes. He was wearing some sort of back support over his kit. It looked like one of those Slendertone stomach toners!
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2019, 05:39:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2019, 05:53:22 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 18, 2019, 07:59:06 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 19, 2019, 12:07:03 AM
That's the easy games out of the way. New Zealand, India, Australia and Sri Lanka to come. Good to build up a head of steam.
I'd say Sri Lanka are the 2nd weakest side in the competition.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 19, 2019, 11:16:04 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2019, 07:44:45 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 19, 2019, 07:49:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 19, 2019, 08:42:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2019, 10:24:45 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on June 20, 2019, 04:43:12 PM
Come on Bangla!!!!!!
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 20, 2019, 05:06:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 20, 2019, 06:32:31 PM
The Crims front line bowlers like Starc are excellent but the back up are a bit meh. With a little luck they could win this and the Crims will flounder.
Come on Bangladesh!
Post by: manic-road on June 21, 2019, 01:59:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 21, 2019, 03:18:19 PM
Sri Lanka finish on 232-9 off the 50 overs, England should cruise it.
Should do but Sri Lanka do have a couple of really awkward bowlers and it's already hurt us. We're no rush here and just need Root and Morgan to bat sensibly and build a partnership. They can only win by bowling us out so we just need to not let that happen, we really can't afford to fuck this one up.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 21, 2019, 04:57:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2019, 05:36:04 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 21, 2019, 05:50:19 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 21, 2019, 05:54:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2019, 05:56:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2019, 05:59:13 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 21, 2019, 06:08:38 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 21, 2019, 06:10:14 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on June 21, 2019, 06:10:41 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 21, 2019, 06:14:01 PM
Just poor batting from the majority. Needlessly giving wickets away.
Post by: Villa Lew on June 21, 2019, 06:23:26 PM
Post by: ashkar on June 21, 2019, 07:13:23 PM
mans a legend, with a pot belly, past his best and still comes trumps in the big moments. he enjoys the big moments
england though when the pressure is on, seems to wilt. should make the semis though. India Aus firm fav to win the tourney though
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 21, 2019, 07:37:47 PM
Ben Stokes spraying 6s all round the ground panicked me into cashing out (England only need 21 to win at that point). Two balls later all over.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2019, 08:25:40 AM
We need to be a hell of a lot better.
Post by: aj2k77 on June 22, 2019, 02:07:19 PM
India struggled today, could be an even bigger upset.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 22, 2019, 02:50:48 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 22, 2019, 05:43:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 22, 2019, 05:49:26 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 22, 2019, 07:42:05 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 22, 2019, 09:52:18 PM
Post by: luke:lamf on June 22, 2019, 09:58:27 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 23, 2019, 12:08:05 PM
Basically that’s two close games we’ve been involved in in this World Cup and we’ve lost both. Stupid batting from far too many and now we’re pretty much at knockout cricket.
We need to be a hell of a lot better.
In fairness we probably only need to win one of our last 3 games to get into the semi finals.
We do have that sort of batting performance in us once a series/tournament, but we have been the best batting unit in the competition despite the last game.
Post by: olaftab on June 23, 2019, 12:12:18 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 23, 2019, 12:17:15 PM
Out solution to every problem seems to be hit your way out of it.India struggled and won the game England lost both games where they were challenged. Not good.
India struggled today, could be an even bigger upset.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2019, 04:56:58 PM
Out solution to every problem seems to be hit your way out of it.India struggled and won the game England lost both games where they were challenged. Not good.
India struggled today, could be an even bigger upset.
Indeed it’s about dealing with pressure. Thus far we haven’t.
Still with the three remaining group provide an opportunity to make a statement. Time for it to be positive, and importantly time for us to play with some brain power.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 23, 2019, 07:43:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 23, 2019, 11:55:10 PM
Looks like Roy could easily be back for Tuesday. Massive if so. Vince is talented, but hes more of a: gorgeous boundary, gorgeous boundary, nick behind sort of guy.
As a few people have said Vince's biggest problem is that his strongest shot is also his weakest, a good cover drive from him is absolutely text book but if he misjudges it too often and edges to slip. He'd be a dream to set a field to because you put you 2 best fielders at extra cover and first slip and bowl slightly full at 5th stump. Add a couple of extra fielders on the offside and he'll barely score and always be at risk.
Post by: LeeB on June 24, 2019, 12:02:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2019, 05:27:32 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 12:54:05 AM
Put together a reasonable all round effort and we should beat the Aussies
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 07:26:22 AM
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on June 25, 2019, 10:44:45 AM
Post by: OzVilla on June 25, 2019, 11:13:25 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 11:22:54 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 11:28:28 AM
Thats clutching at straws though, as at the moment we appear to be wilting under the pressure
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 11:50:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 12:06:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 25, 2019, 12:16:32 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on June 25, 2019, 12:39:47 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 12:43:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 12:51:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 12:54:24 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on June 25, 2019, 01:03:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 02:00:32 PM
It's clearly not been a great innings so far but I don't think it's been awful, we could do with some more wickets but we've not let them really get going, every time they've tried to put their foot down we've had an over or 2 to slow it down again. They have the wickets in hand to be able to go really aggressive but at least they're not doing it with a massive score already up.
Don't like quoting myself but as I said what we did well was make scoring difficult so they've been playing catch-up in the last 20 and it's seen them giving wickets away cheaply. When Khawaja and then Finch went they'd have had in their mind that they need to score at 9-10 an over for the rest of the innings and, with new batsmen at both ends, it's created the pressure that's led to the wickets.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 25, 2019, 02:07:54 PM
It's clearly not been a great innings so far but I don't think it's been awful, we could do with some more wickets but we've not let them really get going, every time they've tried to put their foot down we've had an over or 2 to slow it down again. They have the wickets in hand to be able to go really aggressive but at least they're not doing it with a massive score already up.
Don't like quoting myself but as I said what we did well was make scoring difficult so they've been playing catch-up in the last 20 and it's seen them giving wickets away cheaply. When Khawaja and then Finch went they'd have had in their mind that they need to score at 9-10 an over for the rest of the innings and, with new batsmen at both ends, it's created the pressure that's led to the wickets.
I think they are a bit like New Zealand Paul in that the top end batsmen and frontline bowlers are top drawer, but there is a dip in quality once you get past them.
That said, it is still a score that will take some chasing and not having Roy at the top of the innings (and also not having Hales as a replacement) weakens us.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 02:10:36 PM
That being said, we bowled poorly first up with no where near enough balls in the right area when there was movement. Fielding a concern too.
If it wasn't a WC match, I'd back us to knock these off 90% of the time. Added pressure and I can see us buckling again.
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 25, 2019, 02:22:28 PM
Post by: Risso on June 25, 2019, 02:37:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 02:39:29 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 02:43:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 02:43:42 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 02:54:45 PM
Shows how woeful Woakes and Archer were first up.
Need a miracle now
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 02:54:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 02:56:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 02:59:23 PM
Post by: Risso on June 25, 2019, 03:06:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 03:06:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 25, 2019, 03:08:32 PM
Looks like we will be all out by five, so much for my plan to watch it on the buzz.
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 03:11:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 03:11:11 PM
Post by: shirley_villan on June 25, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 03:20:30 PM
Morgans shot however, was pathetic.
Hard to see how we can beat India or NZ (prob need to win both) on this evidence. No character when the pressure is on.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 25, 2019, 03:29:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 03:42:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 03:44:33 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2019, 03:44:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 03:45:05 PM
Stokes and Bairstow need to get the vast majority of the runs if we’re going to get anywhere near. Starting on this pitch is a nightmare.
Not sure about the vast majority, it's more that we needed a big partnership, but with Bairstow going has probably done us, horrible batting performance so far.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 03:45:30 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2019, 03:47:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 03:47:31 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 25, 2019, 03:49:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 04:15:05 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 04:44:18 PM
Can't see Moeen getting any runs.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 04:45:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 04:48:47 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 25, 2019, 04:49:31 PM
Well done Buttler, that’s the game.
Head saying the same, but heart saying that if Stokes can go big, there might still be enough to chip in around him. Looking increasingly unlikely though.
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 05:14:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 05:25:58 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 25, 2019, 05:27:47 PM
Can’t deal with those. Well played Ben, you’ve been let down by your team mates again.
Yep a top delivery, well batted Stokes
Post by: aj2k77 on June 25, 2019, 05:28:49 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 05:29:01 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 25, 2019, 05:31:36 PM
Post by: Risso on June 25, 2019, 05:32:39 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on June 25, 2019, 05:41:17 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 05:48:47 PM
Bowled really poorly for the first half of their innings, and in turn showed the Aussies precisely the length to bowl.
Then poor shots from the middle order when we couldn't afford to lose a wicket.
Feel this slump is irreversable now. We have been paralysed by the pressure and its only going to get worse
Post by: aj2k77 on June 25, 2019, 05:50:35 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2019, 06:00:05 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 25, 2019, 06:06:23 PM
Now we've put tons of pressure on ourselves, and I just can't see enough players standing up to be counted in the last two games.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 25, 2019, 06:18:06 PM
Gutless performance Stokes aside.
Bowled really poorly for the first half of their innings, and in turn showed the Aussies precisely the length to bowl.
Then poor shots from the middle order when we couldn't afford to lose a wicket.
Feel this slump is irreversable now. We have been paralysed by the pressure and its only going to get worse
Had a nagging feeling for months that we might have peaked a bit too early for the World Cup and that the tournament would see us fade away. We are looking a bit shot at this point.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 06:28:39 PM
Pathetic batting with the exception of Stokes (again). Least it’s simple now, win or you’re gone.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 25, 2019, 06:35:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 06:37:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 06:42:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 25, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2019, 07:38:45 PM
I’m not overly keen on Bairstow’s mentality, he’s too frenetic when pressure comes on. The fact he went out with two left handed gloves against Sri Lanka is indicative of that. Once he loses clarity of thought he’s pretty poor.
I’ll be stunned if we turn this round now, this has all the hallmarks of previous World Cup disasters.
Post by: olaftab on June 25, 2019, 09:41:31 PM
Bangla Desh will not win their remaining two games so they will finish on 8 points.
Sri Lanka will win two and lose 1 finishing on 10 points. If England do not win both matches they could still go through as NRR is good.
So I think England will qualify for the semi by beating either India or New Zealand.
England India (30 June) New Zealand (3 July)
Bangladesh India (2 July) Pakistan (5 July)
Sri Lanka South Africa (28 June) West Indies (1 July) India (6 July)
Pakistan New Zealand (26 June) Afghanistan (29 June) Bangladesh (5 July)
Post by: olaftab on June 25, 2019, 09:43:33 PM
League Stage
In the event of teams finishing on equal points
* The team with the most wins in the League Stage will be placed in the higher position.
* If there are teams with equal points and equal wins in the League Stage then in such case the teams will be ordered according to their net run rate in the League Stage matches.
* If there are teams that are still equal, they will be ordered according to the result(s) of the head to head match(es) played between them (points, then if still equal, net run rate in those matches).
* If the above does not resolve the League Stage ordering and there are teams that are still equal, the teams will be ordered as per their League Stage seedings.
* If all matches in the League Stage produce no results the teams will be ordered as per their League Stage seedings and the top 4 seeded teams will progress to Semi-Finals.
Post by: Villafirst on June 25, 2019, 10:14:50 PM
Post by: OzVilla on June 26, 2019, 01:12:11 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 26, 2019, 01:34:02 AM
I think losing Roy and not having Hales as a backup option has fucked us a lot more than might have been expected. Roy going out strong from the start and getting us a solid start has played a huge part in us being the team we've seen for the last couple of years. Not having that explosive start has totally changed the team dynamic and we look lost. I can take the Pakistan defeat, that was the sort of game that will happen sometimes but the last 2 games we've been awful with the bat with key batsmen playing stupid shots when they just needed to be sensible, the Bairstow one today was a particularly awful shot, trying to hit one that far outside off for a leg side 6 was just rank decision making given the match situation. Morgan was really disappointing as well, you'd expect better from him.
Agree Paul and it has given our batting order a sense of vulnerability, which is an uncomfortable feeling no matter what level of cricket you are playing at.
Post by: OzVilla on June 26, 2019, 02:54:09 AM
Post by: simboy on June 26, 2019, 06:25:24 AM
From what i have read and heard the pitches have been prepared slightly differently under instruction from the ICC than if the EWCB were ordering the preparation. They are apparently drier, therefore going to deteriorate more at the back end of a game. Chasing totals therefore becomes more difficult without the scoreboard pressure and yesterday possibly showed that.
I appreciate that had Woakes had a little more luck, the Aussies could have been 30/3 but in the end Warner and Finch gritted it out and built a platform. The total of 289 put extra pressure on the top order [highest total chased at Lords in a World Cup etc etc]. Extra pressure on an already slightly fragile side which could have been avoided.
Of course we may still have lost and ... Vince is mince
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 26, 2019, 12:27:42 PM
We had good conditions to bowl in and we messed it up big time. If we'd have bowled adequately the Aussies would have been at least a couple of wickets down by the end of the powerplay.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2019, 12:27:49 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 26, 2019, 12:52:37 PM
Pray for Roy to be back, as Vince is a walking wicket.
Post by: paul_e on June 26, 2019, 04:22:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2019, 05:15:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2019, 06:48:38 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 26, 2019, 06:54:09 PM
I tell you what this pitch absolutely terrifies me when I consider us playing India.
Gonna be a red hot atmosphere too.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2019, 06:56:48 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 26, 2019, 07:20:02 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 26, 2019, 08:00:37 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 27, 2019, 11:21:30 AM
It will be. I’ve seen various interviews with England players saying they won’t take a backward step, they’re still a good side and the last two games don’t change that. Ok, then go out and prove it in the remaining games, the talk means nothing.
Paul Farbrace was on The Debate after the Australia game and was saying the same. Didn't criticise any of the players and was saying things like "if it had gone ten more yards it would have been six and not caught on the boundary".
The fact is that we have poorly managed two achievable run chases because we seem unable to adapt to circumstances and conditions.
Post by: paul_e on June 27, 2019, 11:38:59 AM
It will be. I’ve seen various interviews with England players saying they won’t take a backward step, they’re still a good side and the last two games don’t change that. Ok, then go out and prove it in the remaining games, the talk means nothing.
Paul Farbrace was on The Debate after the Australia game and was saying the same. Didn't criticise any of the players and was saying things like "if it had gone ten more yards it would have been six and not caught on the boundary".
The fact is that we have poorly managed two achievable run chases because we seem unable to adapt to circumstances and conditions.
In terms of Buttler I agree with what he said, there really wasn't much wrong with him taking the shot on and he only got it slightly wrong. The mistakes came earlier, with Morgan and Bairstow playing braindead shots and Vince showing, yet again, that he's not good enough (despite looking like he should be).
That said I'm glad that a coach isn't coming out and criticising the players in public, address it in private, give players things to work on and consider and then present a "we're still no1 in the world" front in public.
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2019, 05:28:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2019, 05:36:18 PM
On Farbrace I find him a bit tedious as a pundit, particularly in respect of England. Unsurprisingly since he’s only just left the set up he doesn’t say anything remotely critical. It’s all a bit meh and on the company line.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 27, 2019, 06:13:43 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2019, 09:06:01 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2019, 09:12:40 PM
Surely India will chuck the England game to shaft Pakistan?But would India want to play England in the semi final😉
At the match yesterday I could swear the two Kiwi fielders were smiling when Haris split them with another fab cover drive! I turned around and said to my friend there is no way they want England in the SF.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2019, 06:37:43 AM
Post by: OzVilla on June 28, 2019, 11:33:19 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2019, 01:23:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2019, 05:10:29 PM
I have no problem with England staying positive, but don’t get salty when you’re criticised after the last two displays. Hold your hands up and admit you performed poorly.
Post by: London Villan on June 28, 2019, 06:06:50 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 29, 2019, 08:56:35 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2019, 09:48:22 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2019, 09:49:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2019, 10:54:54 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 29, 2019, 02:10:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2019, 03:23:28 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 29, 2019, 04:06:25 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2019, 05:22:14 PM
Afghanistan bowling well here but still reckon Pakistan will nick it
I think things have changed a bit since you posted this, looking like a fantastic last half hour here.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 29, 2019, 05:27:18 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 29, 2019, 05:38:04 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 29, 2019, 05:39:17 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on June 29, 2019, 05:55:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2019, 05:56:25 PM
Right then pressure on England. Don’t choke please.
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2019, 05:57:39 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 29, 2019, 06:43:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 29, 2019, 07:25:53 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 29, 2019, 07:27:18 PM
Post by: Ads on June 30, 2019, 01:06:32 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 30, 2019, 08:41:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 10:19:08 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 10:26:54 AM
There is a market in Kabul where you can pick up Army uniform of any country you like including US, UK and even North Korea.
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 10:47:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 10:51:01 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 10:53:53 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 30, 2019, 10:58:06 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 11:02:12 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 11:03:27 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 11:08:28 AM
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 11:11:47 AM
A big opening partnership will test India's resolve today. They are assured qualification and I am not sure if they will have the stomach for a fight today?
Roy just hits a hideous cross batted slog from wide of off stump into cow corner. It may be effective, but god, it so ugly it would make many Village cricketers cringe.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 11:15:11 AM
Lots of dots, which we need to watch.
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 11:18:34 AM
Still I suppose it’s cricket, Jim, but not as we know it ...
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 11:18:46 AM
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 11:19:09 AM
I thought that was a fine shot.
Lots of dots, which we need to watch.
For baseball , yes.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 30, 2019, 11:29:13 AM
Bumrah is fucking tricky.
Great skiddy bowler, like Brett Lee
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 11:39:32 AM
* Ask your Dad
Post by: LeeB on June 30, 2019, 11:46:55 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 11:59:32 AM
In fairness, now an exquisite straight drive from Roy which Ted Dexter* would have been proud of.Although I never saw Dexter bat but having read a lot about him I would never associate Roy's batting with his. Nevertheless a great compliment.
* Ask your Dad
Post by: tomd2103 on June 30, 2019, 12:03:03 PM
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 12:07:44 PM
Mind you , I think I’m losing my grumpy Crump mojo - I loved Stormzy at Glastonbury the other night and I don’t think he’d have gone down well in the 1970s . I guess these days my bruddas don’t dab, they just Vossi Bop ....
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 12:13:33 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2019, 01:01:40 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 30, 2019, 01:02:01 PM
Post by: Nev on June 30, 2019, 01:28:27 PM
Nonsense.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 30, 2019, 01:33:40 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 30, 2019, 01:37:22 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 30, 2019, 01:48:59 PM
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 01:49:52 PM
Mods - apologies for the for the foul language, I’ll put some asterisks in if it causes widespread offence.
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 02:05:07 PM
Where's this "Birmingham End" come from? It's the City End. The whole ground is in Birmingham so how can you have one end called that?I am against this Birmingham end name. I think it should be renamed after one of the Bear greats Ian Bell;)
Nonsense.
Post by: Richard E on June 30, 2019, 02:05:44 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 02:24:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 02:25:42 PM
The Ian End ?No you've got hold of the wrong End.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 03:59:33 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on June 30, 2019, 04:01:52 PM
Post by: Fred Crump on June 30, 2019, 04:23:59 PM
Post by: Stu on June 30, 2019, 04:36:31 PM
India played short and left the wicket almost undamaged for Kohli to have a birthday. They know they can outscore us.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 05:25:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2019, 05:32:00 PM
On the game itself, I think the wicket just has had a big impact because we've got rid of their big players now, a few 4-5 run overs and it'll put a huge amount of pressure on the 'lesser' guys and I can't see them getting the win.
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 05:36:33 PM
I’m very nervous, two in batsmen and a lot of wickets left. We need wickets and some tight overs.It's not even close paul. What are you like watching the Villa? :)
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2019, 05:43:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 05:49:34 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 30, 2019, 05:59:29 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2019, 05:59:46 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2019, 06:12:36 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2019, 06:18:08 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2019, 06:21:51 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on June 30, 2019, 06:28:36 PM
India are just nudging singles.
Yes, and seem happy to be doing so.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 30, 2019, 06:32:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 06:35:04 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 30, 2019, 06:38:04 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2019, 06:40:34 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on June 30, 2019, 06:48:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 08:46:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 09:29:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2019, 09:49:29 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 30, 2019, 10:07:52 PM
Dhoni’s performance was weird, I didn’t get what his goal was.
Maybe he doesn't like Pakistan
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2019, 12:03:47 AM
Plunkett has to start for me as well. The other spot is between Wood and Mo.
Wood bowled quite well today without taking a wicket, but then if you don't pick Moeen you lose the ability to throw your wicket away trying to swat a ball away for 6 when you're on 8.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 01, 2019, 02:56:22 AM
Plunkett has to start for me as well. The other spot is between Wood and Mo.
Can't see us straying from that line up today now Paul. Really interesting to hear Brendon McCullum's insights on the Debate show earlier. Said he was a fan of Plunkett, but felt he had always been shifted around and asked to carry out different roles. He said the current role he has in the side suits him perfectly as he tends to bowl when the fielding restrictions are over.
His thoughts on Rashid were interesting as well. After Bob Willis had slagged Rashid off, he said that he would always have a leg spinner who can turn the ball both ways in the side, mainly to bowl at the lower order. He was saying that a leg spinner is a key part of an attacking side. Made Bob look a bit foolish to be honest.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 01, 2019, 09:02:04 AM
Plunkett has to start for me as well. The other spot is between Wood and Mo.
Can't see us straying from that line up today now Paul. Really interesting to hear Brendon McCullum's insights on the Debate show earlier. Said he was a fan of Plunkett, but felt he had always been shifted around and asked to carry out different roles. He said the current role he has in the side suits him perfectly as he tends to bowl when the fielding restrictions are over.
His thoughts on Rashid were interesting as well. After Bob Willis had slagged Rashid off, he said that he would always have a leg spinner who can turn the ball both ways in the side, mainly to bowl at the lower order. He was saying that a leg spinner is a key part of an attacking side. Made Bob look a bit foolish to be honest.
Willis is a poor judge of modern cricket. The game is completely different now to the version that he played. He’s stuck in his own era.
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2019, 12:26:24 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2019, 12:30:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2019, 01:52:04 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2019, 06:37:04 PM
On now is West Indies vs Sri Lanka. SL set a good target of 339 but WI are doing themselves no favours in the chase with 3 run outs. The 3rd in particular was awful, non-striker called through a definite single and ran whilst the batsman just stood there and was about a third of the way there by the time his partner got in, no idea why he was on his heels in such a big chase, it was on a par with Dhoni's bizarre innings yesterday.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 01, 2019, 07:15:54 PM
Leave our Bob alone. We need Victor Meldrew in the punditry line up.
He rightly has legendary status, but he was made to look foolish. I would recommend anyone with an interest in the tactical side of the game should look that up if possible. Hearing McCullum talk about attacking tactics and intent was fascinating.
He also explained why most captains would have sent Morgan out ahead of Buttler. He said you ideally want a left-hand / right-hand combination out there when it's a short boundary. That and it puts pressure on a captains field placing at a critical time in the game.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2019, 07:03:49 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2019, 09:53:35 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2019, 09:54:35 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2019, 11:59:07 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2019, 12:05:44 PM
Off to Edgbaston now. Hoping for a good match and.......... COME ON Bangladesh.
I’d rather India win, that gives some potential contingency if England balls it up tomorrow.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2019, 01:21:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2019, 01:22:39 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 02, 2019, 01:28:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2019, 03:58:00 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2019, 04:26:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2019, 05:49:13 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2019, 07:14:41 PM
I was thinking purely as a cricket fan there😊Off to Edgbaston now. Hoping for a good match and.......... COME ON Bangladesh.
I’d rather India win, that gives some potential contingency if England balls it up tomorrow.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 03, 2019, 12:55:56 AM
tom2103 agreed. Even Kohli struggled with defending the lopsided boundary at Edgbaston on Sunday and if ever a batting skipper is gifted with left/right combo in his batting line he should maximise that. I have been a fielding captain in situations like that and whilst you start off well switching your fielders around after a while you are muddled up, not necessarily with your primary position but secondary fielders.
It is a nightmare mate! On top of that you have to try and keep track of how many overs each bowler has bowled and working out how many overs their potential replacement has got left.
That's after spending all week to cobble a side together and having to make some frantic last minute calls as someone has phoned that morning to say they can't make it!!
Post by: tomd2103 on July 03, 2019, 12:59:33 AM
Whilst I agree with that in principle, Buttler is a freak player and I’d view him as an exception to normal thinking. If we lose a wicket around the 30 over mark he should always be coming in.
I think the same about Buttler Paul, but it was interesting to hear the reason why he didn't come in earlier.
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2019, 10:30:31 AM
😊I learned after awhile why the club secretary (usually a senior player) always registered Bob Jones and Raj Patel names at the start of the season. When I said yes I found someone To make up 11 this weekend Bob or Raj came in handy.tom2103 agreed. Even Kohli struggled with defending the lopsided boundary at Edgbaston on Sunday and if ever a batting skipper is gifted with left/right combo in his batting line he should maximise that. I have been a fielding captain in situations like that and whilst you start off well switching your fielders around after a while you are muddled up, not necessarily with your primary position but secondary fielders.
It is a nightmare mate! On top of that you have to try and keep track of how many overs each bowler has bowled and working out how many overs their potential replacement has got left.
That's after spending all week to cobble a side together and having to make some frantic last minute calls as someone has phoned that morning to say they can't make it!!
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2019, 10:31:54 AM
Post by: Damo70 on July 03, 2019, 10:46:31 AM
Just placed some serious money on England. Batting first and Lockie Ferguson our I see nothing but pain for Kiwis.
I have only dipped into bits of England games so far and not really followed the tournament. Am I right in saying if we win we are in the semis?
Post by: Villan For Life on July 03, 2019, 10:48:26 AM
Just placed some serious money on England. Batting first and Lockie Ferguson our I see nothing but pain for Kiwis.
I have only dipped into bits of England games so far and not really followed the tournament. Am I right in saying if we win we are in the semis?
Yes
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 10:57:40 AM
Pitch looks an absolute belter though.
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 11:25:15 AM
Good start.
Pitch looks an absolute belter though.
Yep, I'd say that, so far, this looks like a 350-400 pitch for the first innings. If we get that I think it'll be very hard to chase.
Just to repeat myself though, yet again this is showing just how important Roy is to us, our whole attitude is better with him there. Bairstow looks a different player when he can trust the guy at the other end.
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 11:54:08 AM
123/1
Bairstow 54*
Root In
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2019, 12:03:09 PM
Yep, I'd say that, so far, this looks like a 350-400 pitch for the first innings. If we get that I think it'll be very hard to chase.Yes but...so far teams have not followed 30/20 rule. That is doubling the 30 over score in the last 20. Generally teams who have come flying out of the trap have slowed down is later overs. Let's see if England can buck that trend today?
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 12:07:51 PM
Yep, I'd say that, so far, this looks like a 350-400 pitch for the first innings. If we get that I think it'll be very hard to chase.Yes but...so far teams have not followed 30/20 rule. That is doubling the 30 over score in the last 20. Generally teams who have come flying out of the trap have slowed down is later overs. Let's see if England can buck that trend today?
England haven't followed that for a few years. England tend to come out strong for 20 overs, consolidate for 15 overs in the middle and then go for it in the last 15. NZ have done a good job of stopping England pushing to the 150-160 that looked on for the first 20 but I still think they'll get to around 220ish by the 35th and then push on. The only way that doesn't happen is if we lose 3-4 wickets in the next 10-12 overs.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 12:50:23 PM
Watch the ball and there is no deviation of the seam as the ball passes the bat. The lines on snicko also don't particularly tally with an edge.
Prob not the end of the world though to have likes of Buttler and Morgan in instead of Root at this stage. Got to be looking at 380 plus.
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 12:52:29 PM
Let's see if he can get in and use the extra time he's been given, the first 10-15 deliveries are really important with Buttler, if he gets a feel for it in those early deliveries he gets into a groove and goes big, if it's a bit sketchy he can get a bit nervous and give his wicket away trying to force it.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 01:10:39 PM
Collapse well and truly underway
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2019, 01:11:49 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 03, 2019, 01:13:11 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 01:15:40 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 03, 2019, 01:18:53 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 03, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 01:23:15 PM
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2019, 01:23:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 01:24:32 PM
Buttler has been completely underwhelming all tournament, well overhyped.
He's not over-hyped, just struggling for form.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 01:34:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 01:35:36 PM
Morgan should have given way to Ben Stokes with ok 16 overs to go. Am I being harsh by calling him selfish? Given that Stokes is in blinding form? Also, hyper critical but Bairstow often gets out just after getting a ton. Go bigger young man!!
The 'problem' with Stokes is that he takes a while to get in, when you already have 30-35 overs done and 200+ on the board I can see the sense in bringing Morgan (who gets going quickly and can be destructive) in ahead of Stokes, even though Stokes has been excellent. What's really odd here is that Stokes is in great form and on his home ground and yet he's really struggling to get the ball away.
Hopefully Morgan will tee off from here though, we really should've been looking at 350.
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2019, 01:36:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2019, 01:42:24 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 01:42:31 PM
Pathetic collapse
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2019, 01:44:41 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 03, 2019, 01:49:30 PM
I doubt it though. Far more likely that we've just bottled it again.
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2019, 01:50:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 01:58:00 PM
I suspect the first 15-20 overs of their innings is the key here now, if we can keep them under control and take a few wickets the surface and a softer ball makes it harder to bat on.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2019, 02:20:06 PM
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2019, 02:37:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 02:57:47 PM
Also interesting is that Neesham was so good, he bowled in a similar way to Plunkett so if Archer and Woakes can start well and create a bit of pressure by not giving anything away I suspect Plunkett will be able to take wickets.
The Woakes wicket was also really interesting one because he didn't do much wrong but ended up early on the shot because the ball held up. Archer and Woakes both bowl a lot of slower deliveries at the death so NZ will need to stay on top of the rate, if they need 80 or more from the last 10 I think they'll struggle.
From our point of view getting Williamson will be key, other than him they don't have anyone in particularly good form.
Woakes getting an early wicket there is massive.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2019, 03:15:41 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 03, 2019, 03:31:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 03:54:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 03:59:23 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 03, 2019, 04:12:36 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 04:23:52 PM
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2019, 04:51:32 PM
That should have been 340+ all day long. Reckon the Kiwis will knock that off with ease.
What utter bollocks.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 03, 2019, 04:55:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2019, 05:12:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2019, 05:17:45 PM
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2019, 05:45:04 PM
Post by: London Villan on July 03, 2019, 06:16:43 PM
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2019, 07:48:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2019, 09:05:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2019, 09:16:39 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 04, 2019, 07:39:58 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 04, 2019, 08:27:21 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2019, 09:29:55 AM
England Ladies have thrown this away. Big uphill task to win The Ashes back now.
After Tammy's century, I think that the next highest score was around 25. That's not going to cut it.
They were at least 50 runs short of setting a defendable score
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2019, 10:57:08 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 05, 2019, 03:18:40 PM
Post by: Nev on July 05, 2019, 03:20:21 PM
Are Bangladesh the first team to ever wear an away kit?
India did against England last Sunday.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 05, 2019, 03:27:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2019, 07:11:01 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 06, 2019, 10:23:45 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2019, 05:25:44 PM
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on July 06, 2019, 08:17:01 PM
It’ll be a tough game either way, but think I’d rather have the Aussies in the semi-final.
Yep, if nothing else we’d have a much greater share of the support against the Aussies.
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2019, 09:22:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2019, 10:32:25 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 07, 2019, 11:05:37 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 07, 2019, 11:18:05 AM
I am looking forward to my day at Edgbaston. I can't see Aussie fans "owning" Rea Bank as Imitation Indians would have done.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 07, 2019, 12:23:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 07, 2019, 12:24:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2019, 12:54:11 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 07, 2019, 01:14:20 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 07, 2019, 03:07:34 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 07, 2019, 08:52:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2019, 09:38:30 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2019, 10:58:00 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2019, 09:12:43 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2019, 10:44:02 AM
Sounds like a poor review by India
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2019, 10:47:20 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2019, 11:05:49 AM
Can someone tell New Zealand that the match has started, please?
Whadyamean.....they're on schedule to set an intimidating target of...... 85 :)
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2019, 11:50:41 AM
Guptill has been very disappointing in this world cup.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2019, 12:04:27 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2019, 12:51:17 PM
Surely the pitch conditions aren't that difficult
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2019, 01:04:06 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2019, 01:16:10 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 09, 2019, 01:44:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2019, 03:58:46 PM
Are the semi-finals able to run into a second day in the event of bad weather, and under what circumstances?This from BBC about today’s game explains:
There is a reserve day but they will do all they can to get the match in today - India's innings needs to be at least 20 overs to constitute a game.
If no more play is possible today, they would restart tomorrow from the point we left off at (NZ 211-5 off 46.1 overs) and play the full 50 overs per side.
However, if India start a 20-over chase tonight and the rain returns, they would resume from that point tomorrow and only have 20 overs maximum. I.e. if India face one over before rain intervenes, they would resume tomorrow with 19 overs left to make their target.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2019, 09:23:51 PM
What if it’s bright sunshine tomorrow? India have a huge advantage.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 10, 2019, 10:58:40 AM
They're feck
Post by: UK Redsox on July 10, 2019, 11:16:35 AM
NZ are back in this
Post by: JD on July 10, 2019, 11:18:20 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 10, 2019, 11:22:02 AM
Post by: JD on July 10, 2019, 11:23:07 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on July 10, 2019, 11:23:35 AM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: UK Redsox on July 10, 2019, 11:49:59 AM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 10, 2019, 12:17:50 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2019, 12:40:07 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 10, 2019, 01:07:16 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 10, 2019, 01:07:46 PM
Even if we get knocked out, if like New Zealand to go through. Be nice for someone new to win it. Fed up of Australia and India.Absolutely
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 10, 2019, 01:12:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2019, 02:06:40 PM
India need the Dhoni of past to show up here, not the Dhoni of this tournament.
I reckon this match is the first time they've needed Dhoni to do the 'dig in and rotate the strike' job that he's been doing. That said in this final push they need him to do a lot more.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 10, 2019, 02:35:48 PM
I'm just listening on TMS because I'm working as well. My boss has the Sky feed on his PC :(
Post by: UK Redsox on July 10, 2019, 02:57:04 PM
Great chase by Jadeja and MSD but once those two went, the chance had gone
Post by: UK Redsox on July 10, 2019, 03:15:02 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 10, 2019, 03:20:37 PM
Their win has cost me £250 as my CWC bet is off due to India's exit!
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 10, 2019, 04:26:45 PM
Hopefully England can do the business, and preferably without using a reserve day as I'm "working" on Friday.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 10, 2019, 05:10:07 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 10, 2019, 07:40:01 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 10:01:54 AM
Today was triumph of pure hard work and effort overcoming avarice and arrogance. Well done New Zealand.
What do people find so dislikeable about the Indian team ?
Jadeja is a joy to watch in all aspects of the game. I'll concede that Kohli is arrogant but he's regarded as one of the hardest workers in the sport (this was discussed on TMS yesterday)
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 10:03:18 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 11, 2019, 10:06:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 10:11:47 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 10:34:06 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 10:35:03 AM
Need to hope the pitch isn't one of the turgid pieces of shit that we've seen throughout the tournament.
The ICC have said that the pitches are not their fault.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/09/world-cup-low-scoring-pitches-icc-deny
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 10:35:39 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 10:36:24 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 10:39:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 10:42:03 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 10:42:56 AM
Great start
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 10:43:58 AM
Post by: JD on July 11, 2019, 10:46:42 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 10:54:29 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 10:58:36 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 10:59:22 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 11:08:14 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 11, 2019, 11:18:22 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 11:20:32 AM
Carey and Smith are very good.
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 11:26:06 AM
They do. They’ve still got plenty of batting and I wouldn’t want us chasing over 200!
Carey and Smith are very good.
They are but Carey looked really rattled by the chin music from Archer adn Smith has got himself really bogged down. As above we need to keep the pressure on and not give anything away in the next 9-10. If we can keep them down to 60ish after 20 it will force them to take more risks.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 11:31:27 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 11:37:12 AM
Poor start from Wood here. Brilliant fielding is keeping the score in this over down.
Wood often has a few wayward deliveries in his first over, hopefully the last couple will help him find his line.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 11:38:43 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 11:43:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 11:46:02 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 11:55:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 11:58:52 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 12:02:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 12:04:16 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 11, 2019, 12:07:04 PM
Possibly conditions easier to bat now.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 12:08:47 PM
They’re right back in this now.
Still scoring at under 4, so no panic yet
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 12:14:40 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 11, 2019, 12:16:33 PM
Unfortunately the wickets have generally been shit in this tournament and die later on. Need that not to be the case today
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 12:27:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 12:33:40 PM
Now Maxwell and Smith our fast please.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 12:37:22 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 11, 2019, 12:38:28 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 12:55:52 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 01:03:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 01:06:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 01:07:40 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 01:08:37 PM
...and just as I type that, out!
It was an excellent display of the mockers.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 01:16:27 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 01:30:01 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 01:30:59 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 11, 2019, 01:36:45 PM
Aussies haven't had any period in the game yet where they look to be getting on top.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 01:37:53 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 11, 2019, 01:45:08 PM
Whatever the score this chase will be tough.
Yes we need the openers to see out Starcs opening spell, then plenty of overs to get the runs. Most people thought India would cruise past New Zealand's total, never easy chasing a small total.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 11, 2019, 01:46:14 PM
In a regular ODI, I think 280 would be the bare minimum on this. In a WC though its a bit different
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 01:47:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 01:48:15 PM
Don't lose early wickets
Don't take it too easy and leave ourselves with too much to do (this fucked India yesterday)
Score a few early boundaries, make them worry about saving runs rather than taking wickets
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 01:56:25 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 11, 2019, 01:59:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 01:59:46 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 02:00:57 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 11, 2019, 02:01:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 02:01:28 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 02:02:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 02:04:36 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 11, 2019, 02:05:02 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 02:05:10 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 11, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 02:09:57 PM
Lovely final ball.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 02:10:58 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 11, 2019, 02:11:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 02:12:04 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 11, 2019, 02:14:58 PM
We all know Australia will win this either way. I can't decide if I'd rather they batted us out of sight and we never get close, or if we lose by the odd run chasing a measly total. Of course being England, they'll probably do it the third way and be bowled out for less than 100.
You can get 7/2 on Australia if you fancy them to win. England are 1/6.
Post by: KevinGage on July 11, 2019, 02:15:13 PM
He might still have some work to do yet with the bat on this pitch.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 11, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
Woakes and Archers opening spell was as good as any I've ever seen from an England ODI side. The early wickets made Australia bat cautiously on a good pitch. I think the pitches true nature was shown in the Smith/Carey partnership.
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
Its only the pressure of a WC semi final chase that can really stop us getting a target that is well below par.
Woakes and Archers opening spell was as good as any I've ever seen from an England ODI side. The early wickets made Australia bat cautiously on a good pitch. I think the pitches true nature was shown in the Smith/Carey partnership.
I agree, I think it would be wide of th emark to suggest the pitch was responsible for the first powerplay, it was exceptional bowling.
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 02:22:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 02:23:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 11, 2019, 02:39:15 PM
Not so much the players who are disliked. Kohli is my favourite cricketer at the moment. It’s the Indian cricket board and their attitude of disdain towards rest of the world that pisses me off.Today was triumph of pure hard work and effort overcoming avarice and arrogance. Well done New Zealand.
What do people find so dislikeable about the Indian team ?
Jadeja is a joy to watch in all aspects of the game. I'll concede that Kohli is arrogant but he's regarded as one of the hardest workers in the sport (this was discussed on TMS yesterday)
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 02:53:52 PM
Be interesting to see how England approach this now. It's a funny score to chase that's neither truly shit or overly massive. Hopefully Roy gets an easy ton, and we wrap it up in 40 overs.
Hopefully play it safe for 8-10 overs and then go from there, rotate the strike and punish anything short or wide.
Post by: olaftab on July 11, 2019, 03:01:53 PM
Be interesting to see how England approach this now. It's a funny score to chase that's neither truly shit or overly massive. Hopefully Roy gets an easy ton, and we wrap it up in 40 overs.It’s not truly but it’s near enough shit. I wouldn’t want Roy and Bairstow to change their approach as there are no demons in the pitch.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 03:04:11 PM
Their attack is at least as good as ours but we have more explosive batsmen in our line up. This will be a day for nudgers and hurdlers not sloggers so Root could be the key.
Post by: olaftab on July 11, 2019, 03:05:56 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 03:06:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 03:07:59 PM
It’s not the usual mix of England fans at Edgbaston today. Majority is Brit Indians who have simply swapped their tops and bought a St George’s flag. Let’s hope it stays that way😉
They seem to have all brought football scarves outside the ground. As they are backing England it shows how unpopular the Aussies actually are!
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 03:48:17 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 03:50:07 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 03:59:20 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 03:59:56 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 11, 2019, 04:02:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 04:03:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 04:06:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 04:11:00 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 11, 2019, 04:11:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2019, 04:12:04 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 04:18:23 PM
Wasted review there but hopefully it won’t affect us too much.
And Roy could have done with it there!
Didn’t like his dissent though and a fine will surely be issued. It was a shocking decision from Dharmasena but he should have walked.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 04:36:20 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 05:10:09 PM
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2019, 05:15:22 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 11, 2019, 05:19:38 PM
Gotta be strong favourites for Sunday.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 11, 2019, 05:21:56 PM
Post by: Nev on July 11, 2019, 05:25:23 PM
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Bob Geldof got one. What about West Indians and South Africans?
Post by: olaftab on July 11, 2019, 05:27:57 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 11, 2019, 05:30:40 PM
Sir Learie Constantine (Trinidad, later Lord Constantine)
Reverend Sir Wes Hall (Barbados)
Sir Conrad Hunte (Barbados)
Sir Viv Richards (Antigua)
Sir Richie Richardson (Antigua)
Sir Andy Roberts (Antigua)
Sir Garfield Sobers (Barbados)
Sir Clyde Walcott (Barbados)
Sir Everton Weekes (Barbados)
Sir Frank Worrell (Barbados)
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2019, 05:33:04 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 11, 2019, 05:39:26 PM
Post by: dave shelley on July 11, 2019, 05:43:48 PM
Sir Garfield Sobers, Sir Curtly Ambrose, Plus others I cant remember.
Sir Learie Constantine.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 11, 2019, 05:54:32 PM
Read about Geldof and apparently he's a KBE, not allowed to be a knight as not born in the Commonwealth. So when the press call him "Sir Bob", they're wrong.
Post by: Monty on July 11, 2019, 05:55:16 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 05:56:04 PM
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Bob Geldof got one. What about West Indians and South Africans?
Eire aren’t a member of the commonwealth so Geldof didn’t get a full knighthood just an honorary one. The individual islands that make up the West Indies are members of the commonwealth so the likes of Sir Viv etc got full knighthoods.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 11, 2019, 05:58:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2019, 06:24:18 PM
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Terry Wogan
Spork Mulligoon
Post by: Chris Smith on July 11, 2019, 07:18:06 PM
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Terry Wogan
Spork Mulligoon
I think they can if they were born before Irish independence, so Wogan is a Sir but Geldof just an honorary one.
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 11, 2019, 07:48:31 PM
Post by: dave shelley on July 11, 2019, 08:16:29 PM
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Terry Wogan
Spork Mulligoon
I think Milligan was born in India.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 11, 2019, 08:39:16 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 11, 2019, 08:44:37 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 12, 2019, 08:36:05 AM
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Terry Wogan
Spork Mulligoon
I think they can if they were born before Irish independence, so Wogan is a Sir but Geldof just an honorary one.
Wogan was born in 1938
Spink Millington was born in India in 1918 to an Irish father and English mother, so his nationality is a bit mixed up
Post by: dave shelley on July 12, 2019, 08:42:25 AM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 12, 2019, 09:01:43 AM
Really looking forward to the final. England won’t get a better chance of willing it.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 13, 2019, 09:11:44 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 13, 2019, 10:38:11 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 13, 2019, 02:21:19 PM
So England could end up as World Champions in 50 over cricket tomorrow yet next season there won’t be a first class 50 over competition in this country. ECB you should hang your heads in shame.Amazingly bizarre situation.
Post by: olaftab on July 13, 2019, 02:28:41 PM
In figuring out how to beat the Kiwis the England coaching staff should be studying two games that both finalist played against Pakistan. They were both beaten so that will point to what to do and not to do.
Post by: Lsvilla on July 13, 2019, 02:40:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 13, 2019, 10:48:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 10:18:30 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 10:19:25 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 10:23:01 AM
Happy New Zealand have chosen to bat. Hopefully get a couple of early wickets and have them under all kinds of pressure, then all we have to do is not bottle it like India.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 14, 2019, 10:32:42 AM
Post by: Villafirst on July 14, 2019, 10:33:44 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 10:39:21 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 10:43:57 AM
Why are they late starting? Get on with it!
Early morning rain delayed the start
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 10:46:06 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 10:46:49 AM
Why are they late starting? Get on with it!
Early morning rain delayed the start
Ta. Missed that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 10:47:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 10:48:17 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 10:48:51 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 10:54:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 10:57:19 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 10:58:47 AM
Bollocks review overturned.
My first reaction was that it was too high.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 11:01:13 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:01:26 AM
Pitch it up Jof.
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:04:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:09:16 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:13:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:13:54 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:14:00 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 11:14:12 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:15:39 AM
Well done Woakesy
Get in you Villa man!!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:15:59 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 11:16:13 AM
Post by: Villafirst on July 14, 2019, 11:18:31 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:18:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:22:03 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:22:15 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 11:23:12 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:23:44 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:25:11 AM
Post by: Villafirst on July 14, 2019, 11:29:34 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 11:31:43 AM
Is this a World Cup final?? Zero atmosphere.
It's a shame isn't it? The poshness of Lords does tend to spoil things. So pricey and stuck up.
Post by: Villafirst on July 14, 2019, 11:36:28 AM
Is this a World Cup final?? Zero atmosphere.
It's a shame isn't it? The poshness of Lords does tend to spoil things. So pricey and stuck up.
Agree. No wonder England's record at Lord's is poor. The Edgbaston crowd is intimidating for the opposition.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:39:21 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:50:02 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 11:51:52 AM
Also, when I try All4 on my PC it repeatedly says flash player not installed. I've installed it, allowed it to run on that page, refreshed but keep getting the same message.
tearing my hair out here. Any advice will be gratefully received.
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2019, 11:55:37 AM
I'm trying to watch this on All4 via my PS4 but the link just takes me to the semi-final coverage. There doesn't appear to be a way to access the final itself. Anyone else experiencing this?
Also, when I try All4 on my PC it repeatedly says flash player not installed. I've installed it, allowed it to run on that page, refreshed but keep getting the same message.
tearing my hair out here. Any advice will be gratefully received.
https://www.channel4.com/now/c4
You'll need to register
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 14, 2019, 11:56:06 AM
Is this a World Cup final?? Zero atmosphere.
Not really what we'd want when they've banged it on free-to-air to try to appeal to a wider audience. *dons tinfoil hat* ECB will be massively helped in keeping it all locked away on pay telly if there's no "worthwhile" uplift in figures from this exercise.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:56:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:58:08 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 14, 2019, 11:59:24 AM
Sorry what is All4?
The C4 all-encompassing version of the iplayer.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 11:59:54 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 12:01:24 PM
Sorry what is All4?
Channel 4’s catch up TV option.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 12:04:25 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 12:10:15 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 12:11:16 PM
That said, I would like to see us pitch it up more.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:12:19 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 12:13:36 PM
4.28 run rate at the moment. That's absolutely fine. NZ are going to have to take some risks. 77 for 1 from 18. That's a good start from England.
I’m not so sure. We don’t look at all threatening with the ball and it’s all a bit flat. Most of our bowlers seem to be having a collective off day.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:15:53 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 12:16:01 PM
4.28 run rate at the moment. That's absolutely fine. NZ are going to have to take some risks. 77 for 1 from 18. That's a good start from England.
I’m not so sure. We don’t look at all threatening with the ball and it’s all a bit flat. Most of our bowlers seem to be having a collective off day.
We are a bit inconsistent to be fair. I'm often critical of our bowling as we don't seem to have a plan and I think Morgan should be telling the bowlers to use Woakes's performance as a yardstick. Rashid drives me fucking mad with his floaty shit.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 12:18:38 PM
4.28 run rate at the moment. That's absolutely fine. NZ are going to have to take some risks. 77 for 1 from 18. That's a good start from England.
I’m not so sure. We don’t look at all threatening with the ball and it’s all a bit flat. Most of our bowlers seem to be having a collective off day.
We are a bit inconsistent to be fair. I'm often critical of our bowling as we don't seem to have a plan and I think Morgan should be telling the bowlers to use Woakes's performance as a yardstick. Rashid drives me fucking mad with his floaty shit.
We need to start mixing up the bowlers to try and buy a wicket. I’d stick Archer back on and ask him to bowl fast and straight for a couple of overs. As long as he pitches it up!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:20:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 12:23:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:26:32 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 12:28:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:29:29 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 12:30:18 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 12:30:48 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 12:31:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:31:11 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 12:31:16 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 12:31:42 PM
Dharmascena gets one wrong again!
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 12:32:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 12:32:46 PM
Dharmascena gets one wrong again!lol...he's had a terrible world cup.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:33:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 12:34:07 PM
Dharmascena gets one wrong again!lol...he's had a terrible world cup.
Contrast that with the wonderful decision by Erasmus earlier. He’s easily the best international umpire.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 12:35:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:35:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 12:49:10 PM
Does worry me a bit that bowling full does the job, NZ will do that.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 12:50:23 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 12:51:57 PM
I have a feeling NZ will bowl better here, particularly Boult. We don’t want to chase too many.However conditions will be different later on.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 12:56:25 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 12:59:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 01:05:54 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 01:14:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 01:14:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 01:19:05 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 01:20:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 01:25:11 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 01:26:35 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 01:27:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 01:28:48 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
That's poor really. Having the technology available and letting a howler like that stand. It's a World Cup final ffs.
Yes it's a bit odd that cricket, a game well suited to breaks where decisions can be easily reviewed, severely limits the number of times it can be used. Football on the other hand, a game which is much more free-flowing, uses VAR all the time.
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 01:38:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 01:45:28 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 01:46:14 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 01:46:50 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2019, 01:53:46 PM
For me, as with Australia in the semi, they had a good spell art the change bowlers but the slow start meant they never got ahead of the rate (teams know that they need 250+ runs on the board against us) so they needed to keep accelerating and that translates to scoreboard pressure which means wickets in the 20-40 over spells.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 01:55:29 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 14, 2019, 01:56:22 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 01:59:48 PM
Looking back through this thread (and any cricket threads on here really) you can see Villa fan pessimism in all it's glory.
For me, as with Australia in the semi, they had a good spell art the change bowlers but the slow start meant they never got ahead of the rate (teams know that they need 250+ runs on the board against us) so they needed to keep accelerating and that translates to scoreboard pressure which means wickets in the 20-40 over spells.
To be fair, if there's a team in world sport who'll let you down nearly as often as the Villa, it's the England Cricket team.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 02:02:55 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 14, 2019, 02:05:09 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 02:06:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 02:10:45 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 02:11:09 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 02:11:53 PM
Post by: Nev on July 14, 2019, 02:13:10 PM
I haven't watched this many adverts for about 15 years.
Pepe's budget didn't stretch to the final by the looks of things.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 02:17:07 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 02:18:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 02:19:17 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 02:20:03 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 02:23:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 02:23:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 02:32:46 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 02:33:21 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 02:34:29 PM
Suicide by Latham
A wicket caused by scoreboard pressure.
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 02:38:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 02:40:07 PM
Poor from Woods there. Dot balls much more important than wickets at the moment.
It was Woakes.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 02:42:02 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 02:42:15 PM
30 extras today.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 02:43:23 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 02:43:53 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 02:44:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 02:44:44 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 14, 2019, 02:47:20 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 02:47:22 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 02:47:33 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 02:51:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:03:04 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 03:05:35 PM
Let's attack from the off and try to get the game wrapped up in the first fifteen overs, like we did against the Crims.
I agree. We have to ignore their score and just play the game to the plan we normally have when we are batting. If we lose a couple of early wickets, drop anchor and re-evaluate. On any normal day, the way the one day stuff has been played over the last 10 years, 241 should never be enough. This the best chance we will ever have of winning the World Cup, ffs, please take that chance England.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 14, 2019, 03:08:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:10:19 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:12:57 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:13:44 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:14:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:14:35 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 14, 2019, 03:16:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:16:37 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:17:47 PM
Why wasn't that given out ?
It was an umpire’s call.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:17:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:19:36 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 03:19:39 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 03:19:43 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 03:20:23 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 03:20:45 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 14, 2019, 03:21:19 PM
Why wasn't that given out ?
It was an umpire’s call.
Must have taken into account that the bowler looks far to much like Stewart Downing too.
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 03:21:53 PM
There was millimetres in that. Very very lucky.
I reckon, when that much of the ball is hitting the stumps, the third Umpire should over-rule. Perhaps a rule to bring in after the Final though!
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 14, 2019, 03:22:10 PM
Boullt looks like Stewart Downing.
Beat me to it Newby.
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 03:23:25 PM
Boullt looks like Stewart Downing.
Beat me to it Newby.
He really does doesn't he. Poor bloke!!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:23:56 PM
There was millimetres in that. Very very lucky.
I reckon, when that much of the ball is hitting the stumps, the third Umpire should over-rule. Perhaps a rule to bring in after the Final though!
I think it takes account of the margin of error in the technology.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:24:33 PM
Post by: Bernie on July 14, 2019, 03:24:55 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:25:45 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 03:27:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:28:02 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 03:29:16 PM
I wish Ian Smith wasn't so biased with his commentary, they are supposed to be neutral.I don't mind him actually. He's not like Ian Chappell, who thinks all non-Australians are shite, he's just so enthusiastic and desperately wants his team to win, which is fair enough for me.
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 14, 2019, 03:34:05 PM
Boullt looks like Stewart Downing.
Beat me to it Newby.
He really does doesn't he. Poor bloke!!
Poor sod indeed, didn't think anyone could look more weasely than Downing. Good bowler tbf.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:35:41 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 14, 2019, 03:36:17 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 03:36:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:36:19 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 14, 2019, 03:36:45 PM
Yeah, we've been pretty fortunate so far.
Spoke too soon.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 03:37:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:37:51 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:38:04 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:38:42 PM
And that’s why Roy would struggle as a Test match opener.
I’m not sure that there was much he could have done about that ball.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 03:38:51 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 03:39:41 PM
Yes but lack of footwork was obvious.And that’s why Roy would struggle as a Test match opener.
I’m not sure that there was much he could have done about that ball.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:43:16 PM
Yes but lack of footwork was obvious.And that’s why Roy would struggle as a Test match opener.
I’m not sure that there was much he could have done about that ball.
Henry bowled the ball with perfect line and length and left the batsman in two minds. That delivery would have got most international openers out in all forms of cricket.
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 03:44:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:47:10 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:55:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:57:20 PM
Post by: Dave P on July 14, 2019, 03:58:22 PM
Bairstow dropped.
It was Root. Should have been taken. Simple caught and bowled change for CDG
Post by: Villafirst on July 14, 2019, 03:58:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 03:58:59 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 03:59:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:00:14 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 14, 2019, 04:02:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:04:10 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 04:06:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:07:31 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:07:37 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:08:16 PM
Empty seats ma Lord.
Not surprised with the prices.
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 04:10:19 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:10:43 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:12:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:13:06 PM
Bairstow dropped.
It was Root. Should have been taken. Simple caught and bowled change for CDG
Think it was Jonny B.
Post by: Villafirst on July 14, 2019, 04:13:33 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:15:53 PM
Commentator: "fantastic crowd" really ? No fucking atmosphere whatsoever.
I think even the Hollies Stand would be subdued by this nail biter.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:17:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:17:52 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 04:18:32 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:18:36 PM
That's the sort of shit decision taking that starts a collapse.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:19:52 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:20:22 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:21:02 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:21:07 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 14, 2019, 04:21:26 PM
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 04:21:35 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 04:22:47 PM
A Captain's innings needed. If he wants an OBE for winning the World Cup, he has to earn it.
He can't have an OBE, we've been through this! A KBE, maybe.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:22:48 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:23:41 PM
A Captain's innings needed. If he wants an OBE for winning the World Cup, he has to earn it.
He can't have an OBE, we've been through this! A KBE, maybe.
Oh, ok. I missed that debate.
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 04:23:52 PM
I’m staggered by Root’s idiocy there. Such an appalling effort.
If Roy isn't a test player, then on that showing Root isn't a one day player.
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 04:24:01 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:24:19 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 04:24:21 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:26:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:26:41 PM
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Lords never seems to produce anything but a pitch that does plenty. Dire atmosphere, pitch that helps the opposition. Might as well be in Eden Gardens.
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:28:03 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 14, 2019, 04:28:12 PM
Suns out now.
Lords never seems to produce anything but a pitch that does plenty. Dire atmosphere, pitch that helps the opposition. Might as well be in Eden Gardens.
It's the fucking graveyard of English cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:28:36 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:28:42 PM
One wicket from defeat? Let's not be too dramatic chaps.I think we need these 2 to hang around a bit.
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 04:28:43 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 04:29:12 PM
We should do that if we win this, too.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
Who said NZ had no chance? Commentators talking utter bollocks.It’s that kiwi twat
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:30:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:31:25 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:31:34 PM
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 04:32:01 PM
If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
We should have produced an absolute road. Instead its greener than fucking Wembley.
3 down. Fuckig shite. Fuck Lords.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:32:12 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 04:32:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 04:32:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:32:31 PM
Fuck’s sake. We’re going to lose this.
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:33:16 PM
I'm getting a bit sick of this anti-England commentary too.
Post by: Pete3206 on July 14, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:33:40 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:34:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:34:24 PM
Oh no!! Bairstow out. Are we going to bottle it?
I'm getting a bit sick of this anti-England commentary too.
Yep, Ganguly is pissing himself.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 04:34:28 PM
Game overNo but I am slightly concerned.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:35:27 PM
Post by: Colhint on July 14, 2019, 04:35:43 PM
If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
We should have produced an absolute road. Instead its greener than fucking Wembley.
3 down. Fuckig shite. Fuck Lords.
England don't have anything to do with the pitches in the world cup. It's controlled by 1CC
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 14, 2019, 04:36:07 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 04:36:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:36:25 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 04:37:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 04:38:10 PM
That’s how it should be as it’s an international tournament not home test match series.If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
We should have produced an absolute road. Instead its greener than fucking Wembley.
3 down. Fuckig shite. Fuck Lords.
England don't have anything to do with the pitches in the world cup. It's controlled by 1CC
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 04:39:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:40:02 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 04:40:15 PM
Game over, I predict we won't even get 200. I'm off to the pool, bugger this.You will regret it if you do.😊
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:40:37 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 04:42:46 PM
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 04:45:47 PM
If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
We should have produced an absolute road. Instead its greener than fucking Wembley.
3 down. Fuckig shite. Fuck Lords.
England don't have anything to do with the pitches in the world cup. It's controlled by 1CC
Lords pitches are always like this.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:46:28 PM
That was pathetic from Morgan.
Bit harsh.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 14, 2019, 04:49:45 PM
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 04:50:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:50:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:50:59 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 14, 2019, 04:51:14 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 04:51:19 PM
Four years of work undone by an hour's panic.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 14, 2019, 04:51:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:51:34 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2019, 04:51:49 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 04:51:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:52:04 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 04:52:21 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 14, 2019, 04:52:34 PM
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 04:52:36 PM
Be all out by 150.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:53:06 PM
Post by: Karlos96 on July 14, 2019, 04:53:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 04:53:49 PM
Post by: tricky59 on July 14, 2019, 04:54:03 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 14, 2019, 04:54:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 04:55:42 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 04:55:47 PM
Roots idiotic play was the catalyst
Post by: CT on July 14, 2019, 04:56:17 PM
The swathes of empty seats have really annoyed me too today. The atmosphere is awful. Final should be at Edgbason / Headingly etc.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 14, 2019, 04:56:50 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 04:56:56 PM
Post by: tricky59 on July 14, 2019, 04:57:48 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 14, 2019, 05:02:27 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 14, 2019, 05:04:28 PM
I'm amazed the win predictor is still in England's favour.
My Google newsfeed one has it 61/39 NZ
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 05:07:20 PM
Every advert on Willow is aimed at Indians some even in a Hindi.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 05:07:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 05:08:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 05:15:28 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 05:17:03 PM
Game over, I predict we won't even get 200. I'm off to the pool, bugger this.You will regret it if you do.😊
I’m watching the kids play, I have an ice cold beer and it’s 30c. I bet you regret it more than me!
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 05:23:07 PM
Not sure what you are on about? What can be better than hiding behind the sofa and locking yourself in the loo every 5 minutes :-[Game over, I predict we won't even get 200. I'm off to the pool, bugger this.You will regret it if you do.😊
I’m watching the kids play, I have an ice cold beer and it’s 30c. I bet you regret it more than me!
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 05:24:35 PM
Not only did the Indian supporters believe they would win the World Cup, the sompanys targeting the Indian market did as well.And all hospitality balconies full of saffron.
Every advert on Willow is aimed at Indians some even in a Hindi.
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 05:29:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 05:32:22 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 05:34:26 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 05:36:11 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 05:38:07 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 14, 2019, 05:42:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 05:47:57 PM
I realise people pop for a drink now and again but there are way too many empty seats there.
Well the ICC are in the BCCI’s pockets and allowed Indian fans to buy something like 40% of available tickets. When India went out a lot of their fans must have made a decision not to attend the final, even as a neutral.
Post by: London Villan on July 14, 2019, 05:54:37 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 05:55:14 PM
That's about right. I (allegedly) met a BCCI official at Edgbaston and he was openly boosting about all sorts of demands ICC have to accommodate from his Board. A very arrogant man he was as well.I realise people pop for a drink now and again but there are way too many empty seats there.
Well the ICC are in the BCCI’s pockets and allowed Indian fans to buy something like 40% of available tickets. When India went out a lot of their fans must have made a decision not to attend the final, even as a neutral.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 05:55:18 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 05:56:33 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 14, 2019, 05:57:50 PM
A quiet and thoughtful crowd apparently at Lords.
Every sports promoter's dream.
Post by: London Villan on July 14, 2019, 06:00:24 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 06:03:03 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 06:03:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 06:04:16 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:08:39 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 06:10:59 PM
This is torture.
Just logged on to check the score. How is it torture? We're clearly not going to score 8 an over, especially with the players left. It's like being 3-0 down in the last 80 minutes of a Cup Final having used all your subs.
Post by: London Villan on July 14, 2019, 06:12:35 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 14, 2019, 06:13:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 06:14:05 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 06:16:07 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:17:02 PM
This is torture.
Just logged on to check the score. How is it torture? We're clearly not going to score 8 an over, especially with the players left. It's like being 3-0 down in the last 80 minutes of a Cup Final having used all your subs.
It's about even.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:18:53 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:19:51 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 06:22:18 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 06:26:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 06:26:38 PM
Over to you Woakesy
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:26:43 PM
Post by: CT on July 14, 2019, 06:26:58 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 06:27:06 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:27:37 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 14, 2019, 06:28:10 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 14, 2019, 06:28:26 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 06:34:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:35:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 06:36:37 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:37:24 PM
Post by: thick_mike on July 14, 2019, 06:39:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 06:44:40 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 06:50:30 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 06:51:01 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 06:52:32 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 06:52:37 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 06:55:59 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 06:56:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 06:57:03 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:58:16 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 06:59:01 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 06:59:26 PM
Post by: Risso on July 14, 2019, 07:00:28 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:01:30 PM
I’d go Buttler and Morgan
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 07:01:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:01:59 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 07:02:26 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:02:40 PM
Brainless run out.
Que?
Had to go for both runs. Didn’t matter about getting out in either case
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 07:02:53 PM
Foooooooook me....super overErrrr...what’s just happened and wtf is a super over?!
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:03:31 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 07:03:33 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:03:58 PM
Woakes, Archer or Kerplunk
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 14, 2019, 07:04:16 PM
I don't even know what a super over is!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2019, 07:04:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 07:05:33 PM
Just been explained on TV. Both teams get one over to score more and win.Foooooooook me....super overErrrr...what’s just happened and wtf is a super over?!
Post by: Richard E on July 14, 2019, 07:05:46 PM
What happens if after the over it's a draw, a super duper over?
Team with the most boundaries in the course of the match and the super over wins.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2019, 07:06:43 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 07:07:01 PM
Apparently that would be England?What happens if after the over it's a draw, a super duper over?
Team with the most boundaries in the course of the match and the super over wins.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 07:08:36 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
I think I would rather chase in a Super Over.
Yep, how many you’re chasing might change who bats with Williamson
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:11:04 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 07:11:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:13:11 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:14:39 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 14, 2019, 07:15:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 07:16:57 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 07:18:26 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 07:20:02 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 07:20:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:21:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:21:42 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:22:22 PM
No Williamson
Possibly come in as a third batsman.
Post by: Dave on July 14, 2019, 07:23:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 07:24:02 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:24:33 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:25:07 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 07:25:13 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on July 14, 2019, 07:25:18 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2019, 07:26:20 PM
Archer will NOT go for 15.
I agree, it will be 20 after you cursed him!
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:27:28 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:27:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 07:28:06 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:28:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:30:02 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 07:30:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 07:30:21 PM
Post by: Dave on July 14, 2019, 07:30:59 PM
(winky)
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 14, 2019, 07:31:10 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 07:31:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2019, 07:31:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:33:58 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 14, 2019, 07:34:45 PM
Horrible way for NZ to lose though (after losing the last World Cup Final and hoping to put that right).
And it could so easily have been us!
Post by: Villa Lew on July 14, 2019, 07:36:08 PM
Post by: walsall villain on July 14, 2019, 07:36:27 PM
Post by: KRS on July 14, 2019, 07:37:52 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:38:19 PM
That was too much. So tight all the way through. Great that it was on proper tv
Bunch of glory hunting cheap skates ;)
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 07:42:18 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:42:53 PM
Post by: ajmant on July 14, 2019, 07:43:11 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 14, 2019, 07:44:36 PM
Oh my my my...Kiwis were so unlucky.The overthrow 6 and the rule that level was a loss.
Feels not right somehow.
Post by: Ads on July 14, 2019, 07:45:06 PM
Stokes unreal. That's one unbelievable finish!
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:45:15 PM
Post by: dave shelley on July 14, 2019, 07:46:18 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:48:23 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2019, 07:49:04 PM
I’m sure that it’ll be just as exciting ;)
Post by: Richard E on July 14, 2019, 07:50:31 PM
Oh my my my...Kiwis were so unlucky.The overthrow 6 and the rule that level was a loss.
Feels not right somehow.
Not complaining obviously, but shouldn’t the team who’ve lost less wickets win if the scores are level?
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:51:35 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 07:52:16 PM
Oh my my my...Kiwis were so unlucky.The overthrow 6 and the rule that level was a loss.
Feels not right somehow.
Not complaining obviously, but shouldn’t the team who’ve lost less wickets win if the scores are level?
The tournament rules say different
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 07:54:34 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 14, 2019, 07:58:17 PM
Post by: Damo70 on July 14, 2019, 08:00:19 PM
Post by: dicedlam on July 14, 2019, 08:08:35 PM
Stokes man of the match for me
He deserves a sword touch on each shoulder.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 08:10:56 PM
Imagine the reaction of the Aussies if that 6 had been given against them!
Post by: dave shelley on July 14, 2019, 08:12:20 PM
Begrudgery at its finest.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 08:13:43 PM
Kane Williamson is one classy guy, it’s always such a pleasure to play the Kiwis because they play the game hard but fair and always within the spirit of the game.
Imagine the reaction of the Aussies if that 6 had been given against them!
Indeed. It’s a weird winning rule.
Post by: Dave on July 14, 2019, 08:15:32 PM
They can only be described as Irish Noses (https://www.facebook.com/manstuff/photos/a.202601109774343/2689481394419623/?type=3&theater)
Begrudgery at its finest.
To be fair, if you're replying to a c**t like that it's probably hard to be magnanimous.
Post by: Holte132 on July 14, 2019, 08:26:47 PM
The Wikipedia page listing cricket world cup finals and how they were won has already been amusingly edited.
Amusingly?
Post by: garyshawsknee on July 14, 2019, 08:37:57 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 14, 2019, 08:38:22 PM
What an amazing game, I doubt we will see another like it.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 08:39:36 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 08:40:01 PM
I hope Andrew Strauss takes over from Trevor Bayliss after the Ashes.
What an amazing game, I doubt we will see another like it.
Not for me. Strauss is an administrator at heart.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 14, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 08:53:46 PM
I occasionally post on an Aussie cricket forum and for such a successful sporting nation they are incredibly bitter. It's one thing being a sore loser when you've lost a final but being a sore loser when you weren't even in the final is taking it to the next level.
I’d expect nothing less from a nation of poor winners and poor losers.
Post by: Pete3206 on July 14, 2019, 08:55:16 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 14, 2019, 08:58:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 08:58:19 PM
I occasionally post on an Aussie cricket forum and for such a successful sporting nation they are incredibly bitter. It's one thing being a sore loser when you've lost a final but being a sore loser when you weren't even in the final is taking it to the next level.
I’d expect nothing less from a nation of poor winners and poor losers.
Indeed, they could have had their chance had we not absolutely obliterated them in the semi final.
I like the Kiwi’s a fine nation, full of character.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 09:00:31 PM
Apparently we are the only nation to win the football, rugby and cricket world cups.No one else will ever equal that.
Post by: West Derby Villan on July 14, 2019, 09:00:51 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 09:02:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 09:25:20 PM
Post by: London Villan on July 14, 2019, 09:26:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 09:31:25 PM
Post by: Lizz on July 14, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 14, 2019, 09:35:13 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 09:37:19 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 14, 2019, 09:46:17 PM
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
I still think the overthrow incident probably cost them the game. Was such a freak occurrence and turned a two into a six.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 09:50:18 PM
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
I still think the overthrow incident probably cost them the game. Was such a freak occurrence and turned a two into a six.
Close games are often decided by small margins, particularly when you consider Boult stepping on to the foam boundary marker when taking a catch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2019, 09:52:44 PM
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on July 14, 2019, 09:58:23 PM
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
I still think the overthrow incident probably cost them the game. Was such a freak occurrence and turned a two into a six.
Close games are often decided by small margins, particularly when you consider Boult stepping on to the foam boundary marker when taking a catch.
And the second he did Guptill (I think) signalled to the umpire that it was a six, which was a very classy gesture given the situation. I think a lot of players would have kept quiet and let the umpires sort it out. Specially the sandpapering Aussie ones.
Post by: TonyD on July 14, 2019, 10:00:38 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 10:02:41 PM
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
I still think the overthrow incident probably cost them the game. Was such a freak occurrence and turned a two into a six.
Close games are often decided by small margins, particularly when you consider Boult stepping on to the foam boundary marker when taking a catch.
And the second he did Guptill (I think) signalled to the umpire that it was a six, which was a very classy gesture given the situation. I think a lot of players would have kept quiet and let the umpires sort it out. Specially the sandpapering Aussie ones.
And that sums up the difference between those countries that are separated by the Tasman Sea.
The Kiwis were gracious in defeat and if they’d won I’m sure they’d have been gracious winners. The Aussies are bad losers and even worse winners.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2019, 10:03:31 PM
Should have offered to share the cup with NZ. That was truly bonkers.
No. The tournament rules dictate that there will always be an outright winner.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 10:06:17 PM
There was no way they could have shared the trophy in those circumstances, though. Nor would New Zealand if they had won in the same way. Nor should they. Both teams knew what the circumstances were going into the final over and going into the decisive Super Over.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2019, 10:07:18 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 14, 2019, 10:10:19 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 14, 2019, 10:14:22 PM
So presumably tomorrow is now a public holiday?
I'm still owed one from when they won the Rugby World Cup, and didn't Andy Murray win Wimbledon twice? They may as well just give us the week off.
Post by: DB on July 14, 2019, 10:24:55 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 14, 2019, 11:52:48 PM
Should have offered to share the cup with NZ. That was truly bonkers.
Would New Zealand have done that? The answer is no.
English sports fans have a many a tale of woe, bad luck and what might have been.
It's our turn, we won the World Cup within the rules, in the most dramatic circumstances possible.
So hard cheese, NZ.
Post by: Villafirst on July 15, 2019, 04:15:24 AM
Should have offered to share the cup with NZ. That was truly bonkers.
No chance, that is a soft approach. We won full stop, in the most dramatic way possible. You'll be saying Djokovic should share his Wimbledon trophy with Federer next!
Post by: OzVilla on July 15, 2019, 06:29:20 AM
Their outrage is absolutely brilliant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/15-minutes-of-madness-that-decided-the-cricket-world-cup-final/11308738?section=sport
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 15, 2019, 07:02:17 AM
You could make a case for it in the super over, if both sides know going in.
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 15, 2019, 07:15:18 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 15, 2019, 07:26:39 AM
The Aussies are acting like a hybrid of Small Heath/Bitters/Doghead fan saltiness at England's good fortune and the fact that NZ got robbed and it was a tie. The main point of contention being around the count back not being on wickets lost but boundaries scored.
Their outrage is absolutely brilliant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/15-minutes-of-madness-that-decided-the-cricket-world-cup-final/11308738?section=sport
They do realise that Australia won a World Cup after tying a game, and that had the same rules been in place yesterday... England would have won?
Post by: Nev on July 15, 2019, 07:37:30 AM
NZ V WI was the best match, Braithwaite falling just short under the lights in Manchester on a tense Saturday night, the Aus V Eng semi coming a close second mainly down to that electric start by the England bowlers.
The drama of the final was a fitting end, it did seem to grab everyone's attention and pushed cricket back into the spotlight from which it has hidden since 2015, made heroes of the participants and hopefully will boost participation, particularly at youth level.
But of course, it wouldn't be Britain without that dark cloud on the horizon. The game will disappear back behind the paywall, the 100 will be forced through despite what we saw yesterday, the sight of second and third generation Asians waving England flags and supporters of all countries standing shoulder to shoulder will become but a memory as the bigots hold sway again and some VAR inspired spoilsport will seek to strip another sport of drama and chaos and the "correct outcome" will trample over that heady mix of skill, bravery, and good fortune that makes us all fall so hopelessly in love with sport.
And as good as yesterday was (and I'm in a distinct minority here I would imagine) I'd give it all back to win the Ashes.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2019, 08:01:26 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 15, 2019, 08:16:34 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2019, 08:28:50 AM
And as good as yesterday was (and I'm in a distinct minority here I would imagine) I'd give it all back to win the Ashes.
I'd be with you on that
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 15, 2019, 08:50:48 AM
Post by: KRS on July 15, 2019, 09:07:09 AM
Alan Brazil's not a happy bunny on Talksport! :DWhy is the miserable git unhappy today? Surely not because he’s Scottish and doesn’t like England winning anything?
Post by: Nev on July 15, 2019, 09:09:30 AM
Alan Brazil's not a happy bunny on Talksport! :DWhy is the miserable git unhappy today? Surely not because he’s Scottish and doesn’t like England winning anything?
He's sobered up for the first time in months and remembered 1981.....
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 15, 2019, 09:22:42 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 15, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
I expect to win the Ashes. Home teams win test series.
Yep I expected to win both. I wouldn’t have given up the World Cup though. After such an incredible turnaround since 2015 we needed tangible reward.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 15, 2019, 12:11:40 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 15, 2019, 12:11:43 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 15, 2019, 12:29:30 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
Post by: BC Villain on July 15, 2019, 12:34:01 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Totally agree. Dont think it's a coincidence that England have a poor record at Lords. Places like Edgbaston have the atmosphere of a bear pit. Lords is too stuffy because of the "oh, jolly well played sir" mentality of the members.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 15, 2019, 12:35:19 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
I'm not sure. In my experience, Lord's is full of stuffed shirts, members, celebs, politicians and officials who seem determined to stamp out any fun being had. Much more fun and freedom at the Oval/Edgbaston.....even Old Trafford. I'll draw the line at Headingly.
The atmosphere would have been much much better elsewhere, I reckon
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Totally agree. Dont think it's a coincidence that England have a poor record at Lords. Places like Edgbaston have the atmosphere of a bear pit. Lords is too stuffy because of the "oh, jolly well played sir" mentality of the members.
I think the team feel the pressure more at Lords as well, there's much more freedom to England when they play at other grounds (particularly Edgbaston and Trent Bridge). It's a tough one, I get why Lords is always used from a tradition perspective but it's really not a good ground for England.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 15, 2019, 12:51:45 PM
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/11763533/should-englands-ben-stokes-six-have-been-a-five-in-cricket-world-cup-final
Only in Australia, ungracious shackle rattling tossers.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 15, 2019, 12:51:51 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
I'm not sure. In my experience, Lord's is full of stuffed shirts, members, celebs, politicians and officials who seem determined to stamp out any fun being had. Much more fun and freedom at the Oval/Edgbaston.....even Old Trafford. I'll draw the line at Headingly.
The atmosphere would have been much much better elsewhere, I reckon
From what I could judge from the telly, the atmosphere was rocking. Maybe it would have been a little more rocking at Birmingham but Lord's is a fantastic place to watch cricket. What a day.
Post by: Nev on July 15, 2019, 01:14:31 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 15, 2019, 01:25:04 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2019, 01:46:38 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Totally agree. Dont think it's a coincidence that England have a poor record at Lords. Places like Edgbaston have the atmosphere of a bear pit. Lords is too stuffy because of the "oh, jolly well played sir" mentality of the members.
Nope. It was the World Cup Final. That has to be played at Lord's.
History counts
Also, I prefer the 'stuffed shirts' to the Barmy Army and especially Billy and his fecking trumpet
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2019, 02:04:28 PM
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27194046/umpires-made-error-judgement-awarding-six-runs-says-simon-taufel
EDIT - as already mentioned by Jon
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 15, 2019, 02:25:02 PM
Was the wrong call made by the umpires by awarding 4 extra runs after the ball hit Stokes' bat ?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27194046/umpires-made-error-judgement-awarding-six-runs-says-simon-taufel
As I posted above, only an Australian has made this conclusion.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 15, 2019, 03:08:04 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Totally agree. Dont think it's a coincidence that England have a poor record at Lords. Places like Edgbaston have the atmosphere of a bear pit. Lords is too stuffy because of the "oh, jolly well played sir" mentality of the members.
Nope. It was the World Cup Final. That has to be played at Lord's.
History counts
Also, I prefer the 'stuffed shirts' to the Barmy Army and especially Billy and his fecking trumpet
It's not about what you prefer. Aussies, New Zealand and a few more prefer Lord's.
England prefer Edgbaston.
Take advantage of being at home and play the final at Edgbaston. And keep the semis away from Lord's, too.
Post by: Richard E on July 15, 2019, 03:25:53 PM
Was the wrong call made by the umpires by awarding 4 extra runs after the ball hit Stokes' bat ?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27194046/umpires-made-error-judgement-awarding-six-runs-says-simon-taufel
As I posted above, only an Australian has made this conclusion.
If Stokes had known he needed more off the last ball he’d have played a different shot and the end result would still have been an England win so no harm done.
Post by: Dr Butler on July 15, 2019, 03:29:30 PM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Richard E on July 15, 2019, 04:18:31 PM
Post by: BC Villain on July 15, 2019, 05:45:50 PM
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
I'm not sure. In my experience, Lord's is full of stuffed shirts, members, celebs, politicians and officials who seem determined to stamp out any fun being had. Much more fun and freedom at the Oval/Edgbaston.....even Old Trafford. I'll draw the line at Headingly.
The atmosphere would have been much much better elsewhere, I reckon
From what I could judge from the telly, the atmosphere was rocking. Maybe it would have been a little more rocking at Birmingham but Lord's is a fantastic place to watch cricket. What a day.
The atmosphere at the end was good due to the tension, but the majority of the final had the atmosphere of a knock about on the local village green.
I get the history and heritage that Lords offers, but it never generates that atmosphere of an Edgbaston or even the Oval. They might not admit it publicly, but the Aussies hate playing at Edgbaston because of the partizan atmosphere, whereas England thrive on it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 15, 2019, 05:54:35 PM
Was the wrong call made by the umpires by awarding 4 extra runs after the ball hit Stokes' bat ?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27194046/umpires-made-error-judgement-awarding-six-runs-says-simon-taufel
As I posted above, only an Australian has made this conclusion.
If Stokes had known he needed more off the last ball he’d have played a different shot and the end result would still have been an England win so no harm done.
Exactly whether it was right or wrong you can’t treat it in isolation. Who knows if England had needed three at the end Stokes might have taken more of a risk on that full toss and won the game there and then. Or he might have been caught and we’d have lost.
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 15, 2019, 05:55:16 PM
Apparently we've lost one test at Edgbaston since 2001
The Aussies haven't beaten us there since 2001 in any form of the game. They don't like it up 'em Mr Mainwaring!
Post by: olaftab on July 15, 2019, 07:52:00 PM
No. No need to be obsessed about one Country.And as good as yesterday was (and I'm in a distinct minority here I would imagine) I'd give it all back to win the Ashes.
I'd be with you on that
Post by: cheltenhamlion on July 15, 2019, 08:01:20 PM
No. No need to be obsessed about one Country.And as good as yesterday was (and I'm in a distinct minority here I would imagine) I'd give it all back to win the Ashes.
I'd be with you on that
We aren't obsessed, we just don't like the cheating, shackle rattling, unsporting, gobby, criminal wankers!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 15, 2019, 08:03:07 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 15, 2019, 08:04:49 PM
Alan Brazil's not a happy bunny on Talksport! :D
I listened to that this morning and heard nothing to suggest he was moaning about anything. He and Dean Saunders were very upbeat and self deprecating at the same time.
Post by: olaftab on July 15, 2019, 08:10:36 PM
We aren't obsessed, we just don't like the cheating, shackle rattling, unsporting, gobby, criminal wankers!No one will argue with that😆
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 15, 2019, 08:26:58 PM
Post by: Nev on July 15, 2019, 08:52:08 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on July 15, 2019, 08:59:20 PM
One of my regrets was not hearing yesterdays events on TMS but 5Live are repeating the last hour including the Super Overs. I'm nervous all over again.
just been listening , it is great and I am not a mad fan!!
Post by: Steve67 on July 15, 2019, 09:39:27 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 15, 2019, 10:08:22 PM
I see Kevin Pietersen is saying that he thinks the atmosphere at Lords was the best he's even seen, anywhere. What a wonderful spectacle. The man really is a plank.Why does that make him a plank?
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2019, 10:17:52 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 15, 2019, 10:19:26 PM
I think the atmosphere was great for the last hour or so and any comments like Pietersen's are about that. Before that it was really flat, even during the largely very good bowling performance.Just out of interest - were you there ?
Post by: Pete3206 on July 15, 2019, 11:41:11 PM
The Aussies are acting like a hybrid of Small Heath/Bitters/Doghead fan saltiness at England's good fortune and the fact that NZ got robbed and it was a tie. The main point of contention being around the count back not being on wickets lost but boundaries scored.
Their outrage is absolutely brilliant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/15-minutes-of-madness-that-decided-the-cricket-world-cup-final/11308738?section=sport
Seemed like some fair comments to me. Not really much outrage.
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2019, 11:44:10 PM
I think the atmosphere was great for the last hour or so and any comments like Pietersen's are about that. Before that it was really flat, even during the largely very good bowling performance.Just out of interest - were you there ?
No, but I did get that directly from my cousins who were. To be a bit clearer what they said is "It was a decent at the start but flattened out pretty quickly and didn't really get going again until Stokes and Buttler were set." "Once Buttler went the crowd got really nervy until the last few overs." "The end was great though, when Stokes hit that 6 the crowd changed completely." That's pretty much the impression I got from the TV and that many people have said. I did miss a chunk in the middle to take the kids out though.
I've been to Lords a few times before though (not for years to be fair) and it was very similar in a couple of those games. I just think the history of the place weighs heavy on England, we have to play there but it often doesn't go well for us. Most countries have a home ground where things just don't go so well for them (Australia at the WACA for example).
Post by: OzVilla on July 16, 2019, 06:17:09 AM
The Aussies are acting like a hybrid of Small Heath/Bitters/Doghead fan saltiness at England's good fortune and the fact that NZ got robbed and it was a tie. The main point of contention being around the count back not being on wickets lost but boundaries scored.
Their outrage is absolutely brilliant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/15-minutes-of-madness-that-decided-the-cricket-world-cup-final/11308738?section=sport
Seemed like some fair comments to me. Not really much outrage.
Yeah you probably need to look at the ABC facebook page and had some of the conversations I've had at work for that in fairness. I'd share the link but i'm IT illiterate in that sort of thing im afraid.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 16, 2019, 03:06:18 PM
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12932/11764267/stuart-broad-and-chris-woakes-are-battling-it-out-for-an-ashes-place-says-bob-willis
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2019, 04:05:34 PM
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2019, 04:11:10 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, AndersonDom Sibley might be in with a shout over Roy.
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2019, 04:14:33 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, AndersonDom Sibley might be in with a shout over Roy.
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I suspect he'll be the next one to get a chance but that they'll go with Roy for the world cup 'feel good' factor.
Post by: Broughty-Villian on July 16, 2019, 04:23:32 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 16, 2019, 04:57:24 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I would be tempted to get Mark Wood in ahead of Curran.
He's shown good fitness during the WC and if it doesn't swing then Curran is cannon fodder.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 16, 2019, 05:02:30 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I would be tempted to get Mark Wood in ahead of Curran.
He's shown good fitness during the WC and if it doesn't swing then Curran is cannon fodder.
He went off with a side strain after his spell in the final, I don’t know how serious it was.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2019, 06:18:11 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I like Curran. He feels like the forgotten man, but he’s class and he’s put in a great showing for the Lions.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2019, 06:19:03 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I would be tempted to get Mark Wood in ahead of Curran.
He's shown good fitness during the WC and if it doesn't swing then Curran is cannon fodder.
It does generally swing in England though. He was excellent last summer.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 16, 2019, 06:33:37 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I would be tempted to get Mark Wood in ahead of Curran.
He's shown good fitness during the WC and if it doesn't swing then Curran is cannon fodder.
It does generally swing in England though. He was excellent last summer.
I think he was good at the start of the India series, then became less effective as the summer went on. His batting is his stronger suit in my opinion, but possibly not strong enough alone to warrant inclusion.
He's a talented cricketer no doubt who should continue to improve, but I'd look at the side with Anderson, Woakes and even Stokes who can be very effective when its swinging, and want an extra strike bowler for when its flat.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 16, 2019, 06:42:38 PM
I like Woakes and I think Curran has that X Factor which he showed last season. So if Woods comes in then it’s a choice between Woakes and Curran.
Nice selection headaches to have though.
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2019, 07:36:22 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 16, 2019, 08:35:20 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Not sure that they need five seamers.
Foakes might play instead of Curran
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2019, 08:50:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2019, 10:16:43 PM
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Not sure that they need five seamers.
Foakes might play instead of Curran
That was my alternative rather than wood but I just think Curran will get the nod, 6 wickets and a half century in the Lions game has to count for something.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 17, 2019, 07:27:39 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49007967
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2019, 08:25:00 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 17, 2019, 09:16:46 AM
Andy Zaltzman has been a great addition to TMS.
I've really enjoyed their coverage throughout the tournament, particularly their daily podcast which I'm missing! I used to listen to it in the car on the way to work. Hopefully they will do something similar during the Ashes.
Speaking of which, the Ashes is our first series in the World Test championship, I only discovered that last week on Cricinfo.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 17, 2019, 09:21:56 AM
Are all the Test teams involved? No, only nine out of twelve.
Do the other three, at least, get regular, organised matches and a chance at promotion into the Championship? Nah, fuck 'em.
Do the nine teams all play each other so that it's fair? No, they play six out of the eight teams, fairness doesn't matter.
Do you at least have the biggest rivalry involved, India vs Pakistan? No.
Will India v Pakistan be involved the second time around? No.
Load of old shite.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2019, 09:39:15 AM
Andy Zaltzman has been a great addition to TMS.
I've really enjoyed their coverage throughout the tournament, particularly their daily podcast which I'm missing! I used to listen to it in the car on the way to work. Hopefully they will do something similar during the Ashes.
Speaking of which, the Ashes is our first series in the World Test championship, I only discovered that last week on Cricinfo.
I doubt that Zaltzman will feature on TMS during the Ashes because, I assume, Andrew Samson will be back and Zaltzman will be in Edinburgh during August
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2019, 09:45:01 AM
The World Test Championship is a brilliant idea, done terribly. Basically everything you would want or expect is missing.
Are all the Test teams involved? No, only nine out of twelve.
Do the other three, at least, get regular, organised matches and a chance at promotion into the Championship? Nah, fuck 'em.
Do the nine teams all play each other so that it's fair? No, they play six out of the eight teams, fairness doesn't matter.
Do you at least have the biggest rivalry involved, India vs Pakistan? No.
Will India v Pakistan be involved the second time around? No.
Load of old shite.
England play 22 matches, whereas Pakistan and Sri Lanka only play 13
Ireland and Afghanistan given Test status and then told to go away and play with Zimbabwe
Makes as little sense as 'The Hundred'
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2019, 02:04:41 PM
Apparently England will be resting a few players for the one-off Test against Ireland. They may have a look at Sibley in that.
Edit: He was out a few balls later.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 17, 2019, 02:13:05 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49013831
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Squad announcements
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49013831
Lewis Gregory is an interesting one. He's taken 44 wickets in 8 games this season for Somerset and can bat too.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 17, 2019, 02:24:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2019, 04:30:09 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2019, 06:26:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2019, 09:06:52 AM
Ellyse Perry is on another level. She's scored 297 runs since last being dismissed in a Test Match
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2019, 11:29:34 AM
Ireland and Afghanistan given Test status and then told to go away and play with Zimbabwe
....who have now been suspended by the ICC ::)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49038834
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2019, 11:30:53 AM
Quote
In another decision approved by the ICC on Thursday, a captain will no longer be suspended for serious over-rate breaches, with all players taking equal responsibility and being fined the same amount as the captain.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 23, 2019, 11:59:03 AM
Even in the shade, that won't be pleasant.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 23, 2019, 12:15:16 PM
Wood and Archer doubts for Ashes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49082928
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 23, 2019, 02:14:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 23, 2019, 02:27:20 PM
Roy
Burns
Denley
Root
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Maybe Stone for Denley if they think the batting lineup is strong enough
Post by: Lsvilla on July 23, 2019, 10:33:06 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 23, 2019, 10:57:47 PM
Are Australia not very good or have we given them some parks pitch to play their warm-up game on ? Either way, they’re not learning a lot to help selecting their first test side.
I think it shows that their attack is as good as our attack and that their batting line up is as brittle as ours.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 09:25:49 AM
Are Australia not very good or have we given them some parks pitch to play their warm-up game on ? Either way, they’re not learning a lot to help selecting their first test side.
I think it shows that their attack is as good as our attack and that their batting line up is as brittle as ours.
With all the injuries to England, the Aussie attack is now way better.
My post CWC optimism is draining fast
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 11:07:55 AM
Nice to have test cricket back.
Longest gap between tests anywhere in the world since 1971/72
As much as I like Andy Zaltzmann, it's good to have Andrew Samson back :)
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 11:13:04 AM
Good ball according to Aggers
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 24, 2019, 11:13:22 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 11:17:05 AM
Roy looked terribly nervous before exiting.
He would have been LBW just before but for the no-ball
Even if he fails in the second innings, I think England are committed now to him opening in The Ashes
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 11:27:43 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 11:52:57 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 12:03:14 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2019, 12:08:10 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 24, 2019, 12:08:22 PM
We don't appear to have prepared for this match in any way shape or form.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2019, 12:09:32 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2019, 12:11:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2019, 12:11:57 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 24, 2019, 12:16:38 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2019, 12:18:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2019, 12:19:23 PM
Post by: AsTallAsLions on July 24, 2019, 12:19:33 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 12:20:18 PM
Nicked from Twitter.........Midsummer Murtagh
Michelle
Murtagh on the Honours Board
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2019, 12:21:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 12:25:39 PM
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a batsmen get bowled through the gate more often than Bairstow.
Andrew Samson has just been talking about how often Bairstow is out bowled compared to other players
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 24, 2019, 12:35:22 PM
Post by: Nev on July 24, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
8
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 12:46:40 PM
Is Alastair Cook open to cancelling his Test retirement?
Aggers made a subtle comment at the end of his last commentary spell
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 12:48:15 PM
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Spin-Misadventures-Vic-Marks/dp/1911630199
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/414nPP62K0L._SX337_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 24, 2019, 12:53:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2019, 12:53:43 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2019, 12:56:08 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2019, 12:58:49 PM
Credit to Murtagh though who knows Lords well and he exploited any early morning juice in the pitch.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 24, 2019, 12:59:08 PM
England have just been shocking. A cobbled together team for a match it is clear there has been zero preparation for. The lack of application is no surprise for the test team. The batting has been a disgrace for a number of years yet there doesn't even appear to be an acceptance of the state it is in from the captain/coaching staff.
Hard to see how we can compete in the ashes when we are being blown away by what is probably a 2nd division county attack.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2019, 01:00:57 PM
Only Roy could claim that he got out to a ball that had his name on it, it was an excellent ball that got him out. The rest have been pretty average shots by players who in the main haven’t played red ball cricket for several months.Although Roy had already nearly chopped on and been plumb LBW off a no ball.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 24, 2019, 01:03:01 PM
I have Thu & Fri off work, so I'll be watching the Test and starting to read Vic's latest book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Spin-Misadventures-Vic-Marks/dp/1911630199
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/414nPP62K0L._SX337_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
You should be able to read the book uninterrupted on Friday.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2019, 01:04:31 PM
Post by: villasjf on July 24, 2019, 01:09:01 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2019, 01:09:33 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 24, 2019, 01:17:18 PM
Post by: Monty on July 24, 2019, 01:17:46 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 24, 2019, 01:17:59 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2019, 01:24:15 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 24, 2019, 02:13:03 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 24, 2019, 02:58:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2019, 04:16:33 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2019, 05:33:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2019, 05:49:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 24, 2019, 06:11:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2019, 06:49:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 11:36:34 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2019, 11:50:25 AM
Nice bit of application from Leach this morning, doing exactly what a night watchman should do. I disagreed with sending in a night watchman to face an over last night, Roy should have opened as it’s his primary role. However Leach has faced 36 balls and is seeing off the new ball.
I was ok with it and he's doing a great job this morning. It's just a shame that Burns just can't seem to transfer his club form to international cricket.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 12:47:25 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2019, 12:48:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 01:13:14 PM
He has an opportunity here which he needs to seize.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 01:21:08 PM
Leach has batted well and although Roy looked scratchy at the start of his innings he’s dug in and played his way into some sort of red ball form.
The pitch has certainly flattened out and the heat has extracted any juice that was left. I think our decision to play 2 spinners may be vindicated as I wouldn’t fancy batting 4th on that pitch.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 25, 2019, 01:30:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2019, 02:28:52 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2019, 02:44:02 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2019, 02:47:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2019, 02:55:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2019, 03:07:14 PM
That was a bloody awful shot by Roy
Yep, he looked very frustrated at having barely been on strike for about half an hour.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 03:14:47 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 03:16:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2019, 03:20:11 PM
Brilliant effort though
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 03:56:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2019, 04:49:13 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 04:50:45 PM
Fucking hell Mo. I’ve always been a fan, but his batting is absolutely dreadful at the moment.
You can add Bairstow to that list too Paul.
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2019, 04:54:22 PM
Fucking hell Mo. I’ve always been a fan, but his batting is absolutely dreadful at the moment.
You can add Bairstow to that list too Paul.
Yep, neither of them is adding much here.
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2019, 05:12:47 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2019, 05:21:24 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2019, 05:22:51 PM
Also, anyone with a ticket for Saturday is fecked
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2019, 05:35:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2019, 05:37:04 PM
Fucking hell Mo. I’ve always been a fan, but his batting is absolutely dreadful at the moment.
You can add Bairstow to that list too Paul.
Yep, neither of them is adding much here.
Yep Bairstow was embarrassing.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 25, 2019, 05:42:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 05:44:28 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 25, 2019, 05:45:42 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 05:49:56 PM
Why are we playing risky one day shots with only 2 wickets left plus 3 full days to go?? It's red ball cricket guys!
We need runs and it’s a 4 day test so there’s only 2 days to go.
What’s the point of our batsmen blocking to remain at the crease? I’d rather we had something like 200 plus to bowl at than Curran and Broad blocking for the close and costing us runs.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2019, 06:27:27 PM
Why are we playing risky one day shots with only 2 wickets left plus 3 full days to go?? It's red ball cricket guys!
We need runs and it’s a 4 day test so there’s only 2 days to go.
What’s the point of our batsmen blocking to remain at the crease? I’d rather we had something like 200 plus to bowl at than Curran and Broad blocking for the close and costing us runs.
Well exactly, once you get to that point there’s no point of blocking.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2019, 06:47:54 PM
As it is they come back tomorrow refreshed with a new ball due. Let’s face it Broad never lasts long next day when he’s not out overnight.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2019, 11:10:12 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 11:10:21 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2019, 01:07:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 01:18:34 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2019, 01:20:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 01:22:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2019, 01:24:04 PM
Post by: villasjf on July 26, 2019, 01:27:18 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 01:27:44 PM
24-6
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2019, 01:41:19 PM
Without papering over the ever-widening cracks in out batting line up, we are a formidable side with the ball. Imagine how good we’d be if we could actually bat!
24-6
We have, in my opinion, about 9-10 bowlers who could justify their inclusion in the team.
Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Curran, Stokes, Wood and Archer as seamers and Ali, Leach and Rashid all have a case as spinners (but personally I wouldn't have Rashid).
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 01:45:34 PM
An attack of Jimmy, Broad, Woakes, Stokes and Leach should work well. I think Ali is too short of form to be considered.
36-8 and a Woakes 5-fer
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 01:48:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2019, 01:48:55 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2019, 01:49:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2019, 01:56:46 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 01:57:33 PM
What a weird test match!
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 26, 2019, 02:00:45 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 26, 2019, 02:12:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2019, 02:29:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2019, 06:19:09 PM
Is there a worse looking batter than Tim Murtagh ?
I find that type of batting from a professional really odd. I feel like if I was a professional I’d have spent a lot of time practicing to at least make me vaguely serviceable with the bay.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2019, 06:22:25 PM
Is there a worse looking batter than Tim Murtagh ?
I find that type of batting from a professional really odd. I feel like if I was a professional I’d have spent a lot of time practicing to at least make me vaguely serviceable with the bay.
Also, how must Boyd Rankin feel about coming in after Murtagh ?
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2019, 06:28:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2019, 06:35:37 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2019, 07:13:31 PM
Especially coming after Leach's knock.Is there a worse looking batter than Tim Murtagh ?
I find that type of batting from a professional really odd. I feel like if I was a professional I’d have spent a lot of time practicing to at least make me vaguely serviceable with the bay.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 07:56:36 PM
We now have players who have been raised on T20, who attack and don’t look to build an innings. Of the recent players that we have lost through retirement etc Cook and Trott were probably the last batsman to have that prerequisite application.
The appointment of Trevor Bayliss, a white ball specialist, has been to the detriment of our red ball cricket. Now you can’t criticise a coach who has just won the World Cup, but the gradual decline of our batting since 2015 is alarming. Now some players are capable of playing multi-format cricket at the highest level but others do struggle.
You can tell a player like Roy or Buttler to play their natural attacking game in red ball cricket and they can carry it off. However other players will struggle. Maybe we need a fresh impetus from a coach with greater emphasis on red ball cricket to replace Bayliss when he goes.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2019, 08:25:42 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 08:30:43 PM
Turn on the women’s Ashes to see us getting absolutely pummelled again.
Jaysus
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2019, 09:01:07 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2019, 09:03:37 PM
Amir retiring from Tests at 27, odd.
To follow the Worldwide T20 salary enhancement
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 27, 2019, 09:32:09 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 09:44:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2019, 10:23:31 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2019, 11:11:20 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 12:05:10 PM
Moeen's a lucky boy. His bowling record against Australia has always been mediocre and currently his batting has dropped off a cliff. He's reached 50 twice in 2 years, and even then hasn't gone beyond 60.
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2019, 12:16:58 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 12:31:17 PM
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2019, 12:32:48 PM
Denly's leggies are passable, as is Root's off spin. I'd prefer a front line spinner though and Jack Leach is the leading English spinner this season.
Yep, he should be in the squad, but as he's not I'd be tempted to going in without one.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 27, 2019, 12:53:04 PM
Don’t understand how Mooen is keeping his place.
Bairstow is also lucky to still be in the squad
Post by: UK Redsox on July 27, 2019, 12:56:41 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 01:07:41 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 27, 2019, 01:22:55 PM
I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
If Jimmy is fit and Stokes up to bowling, this looks to be an ideal time to play Archer. With Woakes, Broad, Jimmy and Stokes in the side, with maybe Curran as well, Archer won’t have to bowl long spells.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 01:42:58 PM
I think that's part of the issue though. Picking two players (Anderson and Archer) who may not be 100% fit, plus not knowing how many Stokes can give you, is asking for trouble, even if we have lots of all rounders in the side. I don't think we need to take that risk in the first game of a five game series. Stone, at his home ground, is in with a good shout.I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
If Jimmy is fit and Stokes up to bowling, this looks to be an ideal time to play Archer. With Woakes, Broad, Jimmy and Stokes in the side, with maybe Curran as well, Archer won’t have to bowl long spells.
I'd go:
Burns
Roy
Denly
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Stone
Anderson / Archer
Personally I'd have Sibley in at 2, move Roy to 3, drop Denly, and Leach in for Broad. Hard to leave Broad out but Stone offers pace the others lack. In the admittedly few games he's played for England so far he's troubled quite a few front line batsmen.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2019, 01:52:10 PM
The concern is the batting, including his.
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 02:32:10 PM
I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
If Jimmy is fit and Stokes up to bowling, this looks to be an ideal time to play Archer. With Woakes, Broad, Jimmy and Stokes in the side, with maybe Curran as well, Archer won’t have to bowl long spells.
and it's Edgbaston, where we generally get good wickets for English bowlers and have a fantastic record. I'm ok with it.
Roy, Denly, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Bairstow, Curran, Woakes, Archer, Broad, Jimmy.
Possibly harsh on Burns but Root and Denly make a reasonable spin option between them. Moeen needs some time with his county to get some runs and take a few wickets, he's badly out of form right now. Stone would be unlucky to miss out at a ground where he's taken so many wickets in the last 18 months.
Oh, and I had to read the squad about 5 times to check I wasn't picking someone who isn't in because UK redsox said it was 13 but I knew I'd left 3 out in Burns, Moeen and Stone.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 02:33:45 PM
I think Mo’s bowling is fine, especially in England. Look at his performance last summer.
The concern is the batting, including his.
In 5 Tests against Australia in England he's taken 12 @ 45.5 and conceded 4.4 runs per over. That's not fine.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2019, 02:49:29 PM
I think Mo’s bowling is fine, especially in England. Look at his performance last summer.
The concern is the batting, including his.
In 5 Tests against Australia in England he's taken 12 @ 45.5 and conceded 4.4 runs per over. That's not fine.
When was that though? Like I said last summer against India, much better players of spin than Australia, he was excellent.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 03:01:56 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2019, 08:12:04 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 27, 2019, 09:02:56 PM
I think that's part of the issue though. Picking two players (Anderson and Archer) who may not be 100% fit, plus not knowing how many Stokes can give you, is asking for trouble, even if we have lots of all rounders in the side. I don't think we need to take that risk in the first game of a five game series. Stone, at his home ground, is in with a good shout.I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
If Jimmy is fit and Stokes up to bowling, this looks to be an ideal time to play Archer. With Woakes, Broad, Jimmy and Stokes in the side, with maybe Curran as well, Archer won’t have to bowl long spells.
I'd go:
Burns
Roy
Denly
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Stone
Anderson / Archer
Personally I'd have Sibley in at 2, move Roy to 3, drop Denly, and Leach in for Broad. Hard to leave Broad out but Stone offers pace the others lack. In the admittedly few games he's played for England so far he's troubled quite a few front line batsmen.
You can't play 12 players Hilts! I wish Root would man up and agree to go in at three.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 27, 2019, 10:43:06 PM
You can't play 12 players Hilts! I wish Root would man up and agree to go in at three.Oopsy. I thought it looked strong. Broad misses out then.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 28, 2019, 08:52:55 PM
Perry is the first person to reach 1000 runs and 100 wickets in international T20s
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2019, 08:45:40 AM
I wish Root would man up and agree to go in at three.
Sky are reporting that Root will bat at three in the first Test.
I assume that he'll just swap places with Denly since there's no reserve batsman in the squad. Unless, they move Stokes to four and play Curran instead of Denly
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 11:05:05 AM
I wish Root would man up and agree to go in at three.
Sky are reporting that Root will bat at three in the first Test.
I assume that he'll just swap places with Denly since there's no reserve batsman in the squad. Unless, they move Stokes to four and play Curran instead of Denly
I wouldn't be surprised if we put out a lot of all rounders. Stokes, Curran and Woakes all playing gives us depth with bat and ball, If Moeen can find some form you'd add him there as well.
I refer back to the team I posted a few days ago:
Roy, Denly, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Bairstow, Curran, Woakes, Archer, Broad, Jimmy
If Archer and/or Jimmy aren't fit then it'd be Stone first replacement and Moeen second. As far as I'm aware all the others are fit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2019, 06:13:07 PM
I’d pretty wary of going in with 6 seamers.
Post by: paul_e on July 30, 2019, 07:05:20 PM
Based on what Denly has said he’s going to be 4.
I’d pretty wary of going in with 6 seamers.
My thinking was that Archer and Stokes could used in short spells where they can be ultra-aggressive but i agree, it's one too many, but they didn't include Leach and I'm worried about Moeen's form.
Post by: Richard on July 30, 2019, 07:08:39 PM
Burns
Roy
Root
Denly
Followed I think by :
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Broad or Archer
Anderson
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2019, 07:21:38 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2019, 09:27:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2019, 09:48:18 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2019, 08:39:53 AM
There’s probably a case, but the weakness in batting means it’s unlikely. I personally think they should take the gloves off him and basically force him to focus on being a class top order bat. We need that more than a wicketkeeper.
Got wicket keepers coming out of their ears at the moment. It's tough on Foakes that he's not in the team. His red ball form is better than Jonny.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
Think it would be a mistake to try to really get into Smith and Warner. Both strike me as players who will raise their performance when the world is against them.
Post by: Nev on July 31, 2019, 09:45:17 AM
Comments coming out from players about targeting and roughing up the sandpaper 3.
Think it would be a mistake to try to really get into Smith and Warner. Both strike me as players who will raise their performance when the world is against them.
The crowd will do that (me included) our players need to rise above it all and maintain the moral high ground, act with dignity.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2019, 10:13:44 AM
Comments coming out from players about targeting and roughing up the sandpaper 3.
Think it would be a mistake to try to really get into Smith and Warner. Both strike me as players who will raise their performance when the world is against them.
Yep, might work with Bancroft but the other two will thrive on it
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2019, 02:53:23 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2019, 02:56:10 PM
Post by: Monty on July 31, 2019, 03:00:55 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2019, 03:08:53 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2019, 03:46:08 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2019, 03:47:58 PM
Hopefully have overcast, muggy conditions as the bowling attack lacks pace.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2019, 04:20:36 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2019, 04:48:20 PM
Post by: Towser on July 31, 2019, 04:52:57 PM
Post by: Nev on July 31, 2019, 05:05:44 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 31, 2019, 05:24:56 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 31, 2019, 05:30:02 PM
Hoping Woakes has a good game.
Post by: jcsutv on July 31, 2019, 05:35:15 PM
Post by: Rotterdam on July 31, 2019, 05:37:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2019, 05:55:52 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2019, 06:04:22 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2019, 06:05:15 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 31, 2019, 06:39:14 PM
There’s probably a case, but the weakness in batting means it’s unlikely. I personally think they should take the gloves off him and basically force him to focus on being a class top order bat. We need that more than a wicketkeeper.
Got wicket keepers coming out of their ears at the moment. It's tough on Foakes that he's not in the team. His red ball form is better than Jonny.
Utterly agree on Foakes, though I’d ask Bairstow to field and Denly to step aside (as much as I think Denny deserves his chance, I think the Aussie quicks will expose him horribly).
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2019, 07:17:34 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2019, 07:34:01 PM
Day 2 - Radio/TV while working at home
Day3/4 - in front of TV
Day 5 - do they have these anymore
Post by: Richard on July 31, 2019, 07:42:29 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 31, 2019, 07:43:28 PM
Day 1 - Radio at work
Day 2 - Radio/TV while working at home
Day3/4 - in front of TV
Day 5 - do they have these anymore
Day 1/2 - in front of TV
Day 3 - in hospital (hopefully watching on recording)
Day 4 - TV
Day 5 - wallowing in victory/defeat
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2019, 08:47:08 PM
Think I’d probably have Foakes as keeper, Bairstow 4 and Denly opening instead of Burns.I think I agree, Burns looked out of his depth against Ireland. The counter is that I don't think anyone should get less than 5-6 tests to earn their place once they're given a cap (unless they have a Kerrigan like shocker where they're clearly not ready for it).
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2019, 08:58:32 PM
Fingers crossed I’m wrong and he gets a century tomorrow!
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 31, 2019, 10:40:46 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 31, 2019, 11:49:27 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/31/name-15-intimidating-venues-edgbaston-tim-paine (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/31/name-15-intimidating-venues-edgbaston-tim-paine)
Post by: OzVilla on August 01, 2019, 07:44:26 AM
Roy - 1 Test ave 38
Burns - 7 Tests ave 22
Root - last 30 inns ave 34
Denly - 3 Tests ave 24
Bairstow last 38 inns ave 27
Buttler last 31 Tests ave 36
Stokes last 26 inns ave 29
Ali last 32 inns ave 19.
That's not going to be good enough and it's a long term malaise with the bat. Aussies have their own struggles but they've decent Duke ball experience having used it in the Sheffield Shield last season and county cricket stints. A win in England will also go along way towards redemption for Smith, Warner and Bancroft such is the fickle nature of sport. That's a massive motivator for those 3.
England 1 - 3 Australia.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2019, 08:28:32 AM
I think Root will shine at number 3 and Roy will contribute too. As always in home conditions I make us slight favourites but it could go either way. The toss will be huge in each test too.
Come on England!
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 09:27:43 AM
COME ON ENGLAND.....
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 09:54:28 AM
Aside from that, I think the weather might play a big part in this one. It's going to be overcast and pretty humid for most of the test so Jimmy and Woakes should be very dangerous, I don't think the Aussies have anyone that will massively benefit from the conditions like those 2.
Post by: manic-road on August 01, 2019, 10:03:53 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 10:20:47 AM
How's the weather looking ?
Beeb forecast suggests that the afternoon/evening sessions might be a bit on & off
Post by: manic-road on August 01, 2019, 10:31:49 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 10:58:50 AM
Cameron Bancroft
Usman Khawaja
Steven Smith
Travis Head
Matthew Wade
Tim Paine(c)(wk)
Pat Cummins
James Pattinson
Nathan Lyon
Peter Siddle
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 10:58:54 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 11:00:24 AM
Slightly funny that this is the 1st test with names and numbers on the back, and half the England team are covering them up with sweater vests.
1st Test of that daft World Test Championship as well
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:01:21 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 01, 2019, 11:06:49 AM
Come on England!
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:07:34 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 11:10:40 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 11:14:14 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 11:17:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:17:32 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 11:18:47 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 11:19:34 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 11:19:44 AM
Reviewed the wrong one :(
...didn't matter though :)
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:19:55 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on August 01, 2019, 11:20:17 AM
Post by: manic-road on August 01, 2019, 11:21:00 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:21:52 AM
Broad has started really well. Seems to have added a yard of pace
The info at the bottom has come up with a fair few 88-89 deliveries from him so far, he's been bowling 83-84 for the last few years.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 11:22:32 AM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kdOPBP9vuZA/hqdefault.jpg)
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 11:22:52 AM
Great early wicket, and the ball was missing lol. Didn't review.
To be fair that's both teams that have not reviewed one they should've so the end result is that Warner is gone as he should be.
Post by: manic-road on August 01, 2019, 11:36:41 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2019, 11:37:53 AM
Post by: Villa75 on August 01, 2019, 12:06:40 PM
It's seems football officials are held to a much higher standard. Weird.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 12:15:04 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2019, 12:15:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 12:18:34 PM
I agree that getting Smith would be fantastic but to be honest 1-2 more before lunch regardless of who would make this a near perfect first session.
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 12:20:55 PM
It would be lovely to get Smith before lunch.Yes so that he can leg it to Digbeth Screwfix to pick up sand paper and an angle grinder before England bat.
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2019, 12:21:04 PM
I've never understood why football officials get torn apart week in week out, by fans and pundits/ex players, and yet cricket officials make mistake after mistake without so much as a shrug.
It's seems football officials are held to a much higher standard. Weird.
It's about respect, and acceptance. Respect for the role of the umpire, and acceptance that they are human and will make mistakes. In football, the intensity, driven in the main by money demands perfection which is impossible in sport and impossible for humans but people still refuse to accept this.
Post by: Colhint on August 01, 2019, 12:21:18 PM
I've never understood why football officials get torn apart week in week out, by fans and pundits/ex players, and yet cricket officials make mistake after mistake without so much as a shrug.
It's seems football officials are held to a much higher standard. Weird.
I would guess that the decisions in cricket depend on maybe in inch either way and at about 90 mph. Giving them less than a second. The other thing they are doing it 6 hours a day for 5 days.
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 12:22:56 PM
Post by: hipkiss92 on August 01, 2019, 12:24:56 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 12:26:49 PM
Cannot afford him to be injured.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2019, 12:29:33 PM
Concerning that Jimmy hasn't come back on to bowl again yet. You'd think with the aussies in trouble he'd have been straight back into th attack.
Cannot afford him to be injured.
Is he still off the field?
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 12:35:10 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 12:37:56 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 12:48:14 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
Bringing ali into the attack. Not good signs in terms of Jimmy being injured.
Was Jimmy on the field all morning or did he go off ?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 01:26:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 01:28:31 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on August 01, 2019, 01:29:24 PM
Jimmy sounds like he’s knackered, which is a disaster if true.
Yes, going for a scan on his calf.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
With the pitch looking flat now, and Moeen and Stokes bowling poorly, it has to be advantage Australia.
Post by: Proposition Joe on August 01, 2019, 01:33:43 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 01:42:15 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 01:49:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 02:02:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 02:06:05 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on August 01, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
No worries yet it’s a Test match.
Yeah but England's recent Test batting form ... You could almost say that Australia already have enough runs on the board to secure a first innings lead.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 02:20:55 PM
Stokes needs to back it up when he comes on.
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 02:21:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 02:30:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 02:42:52 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 02:47:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 03:04:06 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 03:12:25 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 03:14:17 PM
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2019, 03:26:25 PM
Lot of rain over my way. Let’s hope it moves north.I can see that from.my vantage point in Town. Doesn't look to be threatening Edgbaston or indeed the west which is good because I have washing out.
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 03:33:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 03:36:37 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 03:58:04 PM
Problem is with our shambolic top order, scores of 150-200 are enough to keep a team competitive on 1st innings most of the time.
Post by: Des Little on August 01, 2019, 04:04:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 04:19:05 PM
Post by: Stu on August 01, 2019, 04:21:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 04:27:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 04:35:28 PM
They have been dreadful in fairness, so probably want to be away from the firing line
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2019, 04:39:58 PM
I should coco.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 04:45:09 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 04:49:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 04:49:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 04:55:17 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 01, 2019, 04:57:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 04:57:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 04:59:18 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 05:10:21 PM
Post by: thick_mike on August 01, 2019, 05:33:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 05:34:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2019, 05:41:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 05:56:27 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 05:56:45 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2019, 05:58:02 PM
Post by: thick_mike on August 01, 2019, 06:01:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:12:20 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 06:12:27 PM
Credit to Smith for a patient innings in difficult conditions.
Think its been pretty flat in fairness, but its a brilliant innings when the rest of the top order crumbles around him
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:16:58 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 06:19:54 PM
way too many runs for our batting line up to replicate.
This has been a horiffic session.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:21:08 PM
Bring some fucking fielders in!
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:32:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 06:33:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:35:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:37:07 PM
Turn up batsmen please.
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 06:41:08 PM
Say what you like about Smith, but he always turns up.Yes you have to admire that. Not happy with Root though lifting the pressure when they were 122/8 by not having any slips for Smith.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:42:36 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
That said, vital to finish the day without losing an opener.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:45:36 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 06:46:13 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 06:46:48 PM
Maybe no more booing? Doesn’t appear to help much.
I'd say it makes no odds either way but the crowd enjoyed themselves. Who cares?
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2019, 06:52:44 PM
Maybe no more booing? Doesn’t appear to help much.Not sure if it really affects players either way. . You could say it worked against Warner and Bancraft and for Smith.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 06:54:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2019, 06:57:19 PM
That was a tough phase and they did well.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 01, 2019, 07:17:04 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 07:17:09 PM
Broad and Woakes were exceptional up until tea, then tired. I think Stokes was pretty poor to be honest, didn't back the other seamers up at all.
I suppose it would have been a match situation England would have been happy with at the start of the day, but with the momentum the Aussies have gathered and our general poor batting, I think we will be in deficit by a decent amount on 1st innings.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 07:24:08 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2019, 07:25:31 PM
Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
This is why I put in an extra bowler. None of them deserve to lose their place as they've all done good things but I really want the express pace of Archer or Stone in there (I think I've given up on Wood, he's a great bowler when fit but he's just never fit for long enough to cement his place).
Post by: UK Redsox on August 01, 2019, 07:27:35 PM
Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
By leaving out Burns or Denly ?
Post by: NottsVilla on August 01, 2019, 07:33:29 PM
Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
By leaving out Burns or Denly ?
Denly would be the one dropped for me and have Stokes promoted up the order seeming as he would only need to bowl 5 or 6 overs in an innings if he were the 5th seamer.
I'd be in favour of trying to get Leach or Bess into the side as well but that might leave our tail a tad weak without Ali.
Post by: Monty on August 01, 2019, 07:44:46 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 01, 2019, 07:48:24 PM
I'd worry about Stokes, Buttler or Bairstow coming in at 4. I just think it's too high for them, especially if they're coming in after only a few overs which is always likely. We've got to find a way of seeing off the new ball and getting their bowlers into second or third spells before the strokemakers come in and lash them around when the ball's not doing so much.Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
By leaving out Burns or Denly ?
Denly would be the one dropped for me and have Stokes promoted up the order seeming as he would only need to bowl 5 or 6 overs in an innings if he were the 5th seamer.
I'd be in favour of trying to get Leach or Bess into the side as well but that might leave our tail a tad weak without Ali.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 01, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Post by: Monty on August 01, 2019, 07:52:49 PM
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2019, 08:00:28 PM
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
It's part of the fun but it appeared that he got a fine ovation as he left the field. I would've barracked him at the beginning but equally would've applauded him off. But you are always going to get pissheads acting up.
Best batsman in the world but still a cheat.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 01, 2019, 08:03:10 PM
It's part of the fun but it appeared that he got a fine ovation as he left the field. I would've barracked him at the beginning but equally would've applauded him off. But you are always going to get pissheads acting up.If it had been last month, or if he and the others hadn't been severely punished, then maybe. But it was almost 18 months ago. Very smalltime.
Best batsman in the world but still a cheat.
Post by: Monty on August 01, 2019, 08:03:54 PM
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2019, 08:28:00 PM
Smalltime is the word. It reminded me of Noses going on about Jack diving.
Jack Grealish isn't a diver. Bancroft, Warner and Smith are cheats. Yes, they've served their time but part of the carnival of the Ashes are the pantomime villains. Smith gave it back today in spades and fair play to him but take away the edge, heroes, villains, goodies and baddies is to strip the series of it's character and intrigue. I include Stokes in that. It should never overshadow the cricket and I don't think it does. For what it's worth I think all three should've served longer bans, as should anyone regardless of nationality but we may have seen a match winning performance today from Smith and in years to come that will be remembered, not the behaviour of the Edgbaston crowd.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2019, 09:30:50 PM
I think the last two partnerships for Australia showed the pitch as one very good for batting. Neither Siddle or Lyon looked in any sort of trouble. Think 330-350 was probably a par score, particularly after winning the toss.
Broad and Woakes were exceptional up until tea, then tired. I think Stokes was pretty poor to be honest, didn't back the other seamers up at all.
I suppose it would have been a match situation England would have been happy with at the start of the day, but with the momentum the Aussies have gathered and our general poor batting, I think we will be in deficit by a decent amount on 1st innings.
Went today and would agree with that assessment. In football terms I would liken it to the emotion of being happy to settle for a draw before a match, but then drawing the game after being 2 or 3 up. Smith's innings was very good, although I thought Jimmy's injury left us a bowler light and it told as the innings went on. I thought there was more applause in the crowd than boos when Smith got his century, though it was probably close run.
Set up very nicely for tomorrow.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 10:04:01 PM
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton?
No, but the Aussies would, and I wouldn't blame them. However good Smith is his reputation will always be tarnished. I would say the same about Atherton, too.
Post by: Lsvilla on August 01, 2019, 10:08:53 PM
Let’s not forget Smith is a serial offender - remember looking to the dressing room for guidance on a review in India ??There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton?
No, but the Aussies would, and I wouldn't blame them. However good Smith is his reputation will always be tarnished. I would say the same about Atherton, too.
Post by: Steve67 on August 01, 2019, 10:09:37 PM
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2019, 10:22:58 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 01, 2019, 10:24:22 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 01, 2019, 10:38:05 PM
If the batsmen do their job and we can win this without Anderson, we can go into the remaining games full of confidence with a full quota of fast bowlers.
If we crumble, and the Aussies finally get a win at Edgbaston, it will give them a huge boost, and with their lucky ground next they could be two up before you know it and that would be nearly impossible to overturn.
Tomorrow might be the day that decides the Ashes.
Post by: Steve67 on August 01, 2019, 10:38:31 PM
Anderson should not have been picked. This will likely scupper our chances of victory. Olly Stone should've been picked for his 90mph plus pace.
I was thinking that. Also, you don't pick the team the day before, you pick it on the day, just in case the weather turns funny. I love Jimmy but I honestly think it was a selfish act declaring himself fit for the game and you are right, it could cost us if this afternoons bowling is anything to go by. My other moan, Broad was brilliant this morning and shit this afternoon but because he takes a fifth wicket, his poor bowling gets forgotten. We need to replace him soon enough and I am looking forward to seeing the likes of Archer and Stone playing instead.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 01, 2019, 10:46:17 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 01, 2019, 10:54:04 PM
Think thats unfair on Broad to be honest. He was hitting 89mph at times, bowled a good full length and threatened. The bigger problem in the afternoon/evening was that Anderson wasn't avaliable and Stokes didn't back up Broad and Woakes in any way. Smith played carefully, and waited for the bowlers to become tired.
That's a fair point mate but given Broad huge experience, he tends to get shorter and wider instead of doing what he was doing in the morning. That's why the likes of Anderson and McGrath are/were world class because they put in the right area, ball after ball. I just think that Broad bowls quickly but his accuracy goes.
Post by: Ads on August 01, 2019, 11:42:17 PM
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Nah, he's cheating c***. Crying his eyes out on the telly over being caught doesn't wash.
He can score another 10,000 runs and it wont make any difference. His legacy is already written the disgraceful cheating bastard. He can sit in the Pantheon of fellow cheats of sport with Armstrong, Gatlin et al. That's his legacy.
He wasnt booed enough.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 02, 2019, 08:50:19 AM
Smith's offence wasn't much worse than Atherton's.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 11:28:39 AM
A 22 run opening stand is probably a bit of a triumph in fairness.
Looks like the next day and a half are when the pitch and conditions are going to be at their best for batting. Need some players to finally stand up
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 02, 2019, 11:39:10 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on August 02, 2019, 11:40:48 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 02, 2019, 11:49:27 AM
Actually he'll be remembered as one of the greatest of all time. Maybe even the greatest since Bradman,as he currently is. The sandpaper thing will be a footnote. An ignominious footnote for sure, but that's all it'll be.There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Nah, he's cheating c***. Crying his eyes out on the telly over being caught doesn't wash.
He can score another 10,000 runs and it wont make any difference. His legacy is already written the disgraceful cheating bastard. He can sit in the Pantheon of fellow cheats of sport with Armstrong, Gatlin et al. That's his legacy.
He wasnt booed enough.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 11:59:06 AM
Yesterday was the sort of innings he's played before. Dug in for the team and turned the match on its head. Its the sort of innings that Root should look at and aspire to.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 12:09:20 PM
The standard of umpiring has been abysmal.
Post by: jcsutv on August 02, 2019, 12:23:47 PM
Smith is a brilliant player. Hard to believe he looked such a rabbit when we played them in 2010.
Yesterday was the sort of innings he's played before. Dug in for the team and turned the match on its head. Its the sort of innings that Root should look at and aspire to.
Agree with this. Took my lad yesterday and we were clapping him off as were plenty more in the Hollies stand to be fair. There were loads more clapping than booing.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 12:35:18 PM
Cannot believe the bails didn't come off though. Ball gave the stumps a good clatter
Post by: thick_mike on August 02, 2019, 12:35:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 02, 2019, 12:36:08 PM
Initially given out caught behind but reversed on review
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 12:36:11 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 02, 2019, 12:37:24 PM
Wow, ball clipped Root’s off stump but the bail didn’t come off.
Initially given out caught behind but reversed on review
Fantastic wasn't it? Followed by a load chorus of "same old Aussies, always cheating".
Post by: UK Redsox on August 02, 2019, 12:38:16 PM
Another quality umpiring decision to give Root out!
Cannot believe the bails didn't come off though. Ball gave the stumps a good clatter
In fairness to the umpire, when there’s a noise like that and the bails are still on, it’s understandable to think that he’s hit it
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 12:38:25 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 12:44:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 12:44:47 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 02, 2019, 12:51:55 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 02, 2019, 01:07:29 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 01:11:56 PM
Don't think there is much at all in the pitch for the seamers. Theres a bit of turn but nothing that isn't manageable yet. Will need a decent lead on 1st innings though, as it will probably turn a lot towards the end of the game. That means a few batsmen will have to stand up and score heavily.
Problem is a collapse is always around the corner with us.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 02, 2019, 01:15:59 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 01:19:31 PM
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 01:28:06 PM
Actually he'll be remembered as one of the greatest of all time. Maybe even the greatest since Bradman,as he currently is. The sandpaper thing will be a footnote. An ignominious footnote for sure, but that's all it'll be.There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Nah, he's cheating c***. Crying his eyes out on the telly over being caught doesn't wash.
He can score another 10,000 runs and it wont make any difference. His legacy is already written the disgraceful cheating bastard. He can sit in the Pantheon of fellow cheats of sport with Armstrong, Gatlin et al. That's his legacy.
He wasnt booed enough.
Aye, just like Maradona is known for his glorious second goal against England and the words cheat, beak head and fat don't proceed that memory.
Dream on. Smith is a cheating c***. Write his epitaph now.
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 01:30:21 PM
Ball isn't doing much, no need to chuck wickets away.
Post by: olaftab on August 02, 2019, 01:35:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 01:43:15 PM
Actually he'll be remembered as one of the greatest of all time. Maybe even the greatest since Bradman,as he currently is. The sandpaper thing will be a footnote. An ignominious footnote for sure, but that's all it'll be.There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Nah, he's cheating c***. Crying his eyes out on the telly over being caught doesn't wash.
He can score another 10,000 runs and it wont make any difference. His legacy is already written the disgraceful cheating bastard. He can sit in the Pantheon of fellow cheats of sport with Armstrong, Gatlin et al. That's his legacy.
He wasnt booed enough.
Aye, just like Maradona is known for his glorious second goal against England and the words cheat, beak head and fat don't proceed that memory.
Dream on. Smith is a cheating c***. Write his epitaph now.
Not defending what Smith did, it was completely unacceptable and cheating. I would look at it in a wider context of what Australian cricket was and what had been building up over a number of years under Waugh and Pontings captaincy.
It was a nasty, aggressive, win at all costs mentality, that regularly overstepped the mark on the field. I think it was ultimately that culture that lead to what happened.
He has served his ban, and I do think he genuinely feels remorse for it. He will be correctly judged on his character and his ability from this point forward.
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 01:44:07 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 01:46:47 PM
Post by: Monty on August 02, 2019, 01:48:57 PM
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 01:53:26 PM
I also dont like a situation where a player like Bancroft is forced into a situation by his boss and his acolyte to cheat. It would be like a partner at work presurisng a trainee to back date a letter.
He's a very talented player, unorthodox and lures bowlers in to bowling too straight, but he will always be Smith the Cheat.
Post by: Monty on August 02, 2019, 01:59:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 02:03:57 PM
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 02:09:36 PM
Post by: Monty on August 02, 2019, 02:11:07 PM
As the rules do not prohibit you from shining one side of the ball. The rules do prohibit you from taking an abrasive surface to it.
No offence meant but this is a quite magnificently Tory view of the world Ads!
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 02:15:26 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 02:15:37 PM
Theres always been an acceptance of not walking when you egde it, but someone who appeals for a catch when its just bounced is roundly berated.
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 02:24:52 PM
Siddle is a great bowler, good line and length, but he's very dull to watch.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 02, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
The rules also say you can't polish the ball using an artificial substance. Such as sucking mints and then shining the ball, as England - particularly Trescothick - have admitted they did during the 2005 Ashes series.As the rules do not prohibit you from shining one side of the ball. The rules do prohibit you from taking an abrasive surface to it.
No offence meant but this is a quite magnificently Tory view of the world Ads!
Post by: olaftab on August 02, 2019, 02:27:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 02, 2019, 02:28:39 PM
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?The rules also say you can't polish the ball using an artificial substance. Such as sucking mints and then shining the ball, as England - particularly Trescothick - have admitted they did during the 2005 Ashes series.As the rules do not prohibit you from shining one side of the ball. The rules do prohibit you from taking an abrasive surface to it.
No offence meant but this is a quite magnificently Tory view of the world Ads!
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 02, 2019, 02:40:20 PM
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?Naked cricket.
Post by: thick_mike on August 02, 2019, 02:42:42 PM
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?Naked cricket.
*insert balls/stump/googly joke here*
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
Gods below, but without lawyers, you humans would be sacrificing virgins to ensure the sun rises and resorting to cannibalism within 9 minutes.
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 02:45:26 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 02, 2019, 02:46:49 PM
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?Naked cricket.
*insert balls/stump/googly joke here*
“Aggers, for goodness sake, stop it”
Post by: thick_mike on August 02, 2019, 03:18:44 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on August 02, 2019, 03:58:47 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 04:34:55 PM
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 04:35:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 02, 2019, 04:48:00 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 04:52:08 PM
Post by: jcsutv on August 02, 2019, 04:52:18 PM
The change of ball has changed the game.
Exactly. The Aussies get under my skin😂
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 05:00:52 PM
Theres no way a replacement ball should do that much
Post by: tomd2103 on August 02, 2019, 05:11:48 PM
Feels like a key session coming up.
We've already missed one chance to take command of the game when we were bowling, so we need to take this one and get a sizeable lead.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 02, 2019, 05:14:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 05:16:06 PM
Now needs to go on and not fall into the trap of getting out just after a hundred
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2019, 05:48:36 PM
Batting last on this pitch is not going to be easy.
Post by: Damo70 on August 02, 2019, 05:54:02 PM
Big 40 minutes coming up with the new cherry now until the close. If these two get through unscathed then we ought to be able to build a lead tomorrow.
Batting last on this pitch is not going to be easy.
I thought the new cherry was either buying a Datsun/Nissan car or a sexual conquest.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2019, 06:22:14 PM
Cummins with the new ball is dangerous and Pattinson has got a bit of movement (and been their best bowler) but Lyon has been poor and Siddle just requires concentration when he's bowling like this.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 02, 2019, 06:37:58 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 07:07:36 PM
Bloody annoying that the aussies got a couple of wickets they probably wouldn't have if the replacement ball hadn't swung like a middle aged couple trying to rediscover the spark in their sex life, but Stokes and Burns did excellently to calm the situation.
Bat for as long as possible and get a big lead. The pitch will turn a lot as the game goes on.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 02, 2019, 07:48:59 PM
Post by: SteveN on August 02, 2019, 07:49:26 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 02, 2019, 08:45:07 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 02, 2019, 09:06:33 PM
Great day, brilliant effort.
Seconded. Important to push on and use scoreboard pressure, specially if we have no Jimmy to bowl.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 09:13:43 PM
On a different note, can umpires be replaced during a series?
Their performance over the 2 days has been utterly dreadful.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 02, 2019, 09:42:42 PM
I think Aleem Dar was a late injury/illness call up
Post by: Villan For Life on August 02, 2019, 09:55:11 PM
Joel Wilson was only promoted back up to the Elite Parnell after a couple of post World Cup retirements
I think Aleem Dar was a late injury/illness call up
For a series as big as the Ashes the top ranked umpires should be used.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 02, 2019, 10:00:09 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 02, 2019, 10:27:46 PM
Ha ha ha.
Post by: olaftab on August 02, 2019, 11:11:24 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 02, 2019, 11:14:13 PM
These two have had absolute shockers in this match.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 02, 2019, 11:23:51 PM
Dickie used to almost slump over the stumps and was always in position for a run out and he invariably got it right. Nowadays umpires seem to be about 6 feet behind the stumps.
Now I’m sure that they refer run outs for the sake of theatre but how can they even call a no ball let alone give an accurate lbw decision?
For what it’s worth I think umpires should have all technology available to them regardless. The game would be better for it.
Post by: Fred Crump on August 03, 2019, 12:00:23 AM
I really don’t like the incursion of football culture into cricket. Names and numbers on shirts in a serious test match is bad enough but all the football chants, tribalism, booing of the ‘opposition’ passed off as ‘ bantz’ sickens me. People who basically go to get on Telly because they are in fancy dress and go to get pissed up and abuse the ‘ opposition fans’ are fine in end of season football matches, but please don’t pollute the wonderful game of cricket with that shit. We were all once spectators, not fans. And the booing of Steve Smith , one of the world’s finest batsmen ( not batters) was disgusting.
Signed Fred Crump
Age 103 1/2
P.S. I’m serious about this, though , really.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:15:11 AM
The booing is all pantomime I think. There's no real animosity there. Having been to Edgbaston a couple of times for the ashes I think the Aussie fans enjoy the pisstaking and give plenty back too.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 03, 2019, 07:46:32 AM
As for chants etc, it’s nice to be in such a wonderful atmosphere knowing that it will add to the occasion without slipping into football local derby territory. It can affect the players too, Mitchell Johnson went to pieces a few years ago and admits that the Barmy Army singing about him affected his form. “He swings to the left, he swings to the right, that Mitchell Johnson......his bowling is shite”.
He did learn to live with it and bounced back but he was affected. It’s another example of what previous Aussies captains have referred to as mental disintegration. It’s fine for them to dish it out but they can’t take it when it’s given back.
Smith’s innings was wonderful but he’s a cheat and he always will be.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 03, 2019, 08:55:35 AM
I know I will get some pelters for this but sod it, I’m going to say it.
I really don’t like the incursion of football culture into cricket. Names and numbers on shirts in a serious test match is bad enough but all the football chants, tribalism, booing of the ‘opposition’ passed off as ‘ bantz’ sickens me. People who basically go to get on Telly because they are in fancy dress and go to get pissed up and abuse the ‘ opposition fans’ are fine in end of season football matches, but please don’t pollute the wonderful game of cricket with that shit. We were all once spectators, not fans. And the booing of Steve Smith , one of the world’s finest batsmen ( not batters) was disgusting.
Signed Fred Crump
Age 103 1/2
P.S. I’m serious about this, though , really.
I agree with all this apart from the names/numbers bit. The Barmy Army's singing/chanting and especially Billy and his fecking trumpet are terrible
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2019, 09:37:30 AM
As above, the treatment of Mitchell Johnson at the SCG in 2011 got England a Golden Duck, as he utterly bottled it.
There's a place in cricket for those who want to just turn up and watch, those who want to sing and add something to the atmosphere and those who want to moan about the people who spend thousands of pounds watching England all over the world and like to sing.
Edgbaston is the 16th most hostile cricket ground and by far the England teams favourite and it's not because of the latter sort of people.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 03, 2019, 10:06:38 AM
Unless it's the Convicts in which case, fuck em.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 10:27:09 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
Post by: Fred Crump on August 03, 2019, 10:44:33 AM
Yeah cos naturally spending loads of money obviously entitles people to behave like boorish twats in public places. Welcome to New Tory Britain, 2019.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 10:45:55 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 10:52:52 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 10:53:18 AM
Yes the Barmy Army got to Johnson in 2010/11, amid Australia's wheels falling off all over the place, but it didn't work in 2013/14 did it.
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2019, 10:53:59 AM
those who want to moan about the people who spend thousands of pounds watching England all over the world and like to sing.
Yeah cos naturally spending loads of money obviously entitles people to behave like boorish twats in public places. Welcome to New Tory Britain, 2019.
I think your tarten blanket is wrapped a little too tightly.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 10:54:11 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 10:56:57 AM
I think Sangakarra is my favourite pundit now. He’s excellent.
He's one hell of a quality person too.
His cowdrey lecture from a few years ago is majestic.
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2019, 11:00:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 11:01:10 AM
I think Sangakarra is my favourite pundit now. He’s excellent.
He's one hell of a quality person too.
His cowdrey lecture from a few years ago is majestic.
Yeah he’s very impressive.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 11:01:58 AM
What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 11:06:10 AM
I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 11:09:17 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 11:13:09 AM
I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
I think that would be dangerous, the weather reports for Sunday and Monday suggest we could lose overs on the afternoon of the 4th and morning of the 5th. What I'd hate is for us to have a lead of 150-200 and not win because we run out of time.
Personally I'd tell these 2 to stay sensible and bat as they are until Lunch, that should see us with a 60-70 lead and then after lunch I'd say just go for it and smash them out of the game.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 11:18:30 AM
If the forecast is not good for Sunday and Monday then surely the best idea is to get a lead which could conceivably see us win without the need to bat again or, if we do have to, to knock off not very many. I reckon we just keep going. Maybe give them 20 minutes tonight, if we get that far.I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
I think that would be dangerous, the weather reports for Sunday and Monday suggest we could lose overs on the afternoon of the 4th and morning of the 5th. What I'd hate is for us to have a lead of 150-200 and not win because we run out of time.
Personally I'd tell these 2 to stay sensible and bat as they are until Lunch, that should see us with a 60-70 lead and then after lunch I'd say just go for it and smash them out of the game.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 11:20:09 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 11:34:49 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 11:48:28 AM
Time for Bairstow and Moeen to contribute some test runs.
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 11:50:35 AM
If the forecast is not good for Sunday and Monday then surely the best idea is to get a lead which could conceivably see us win without the need to bat again or, if we do have to, to knock off not very many. I reckon we just keep going. Maybe give them 20 minutes tonight, if we get that far.I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
I think that would be dangerous, the weather reports for Sunday and Monday suggest we could lose overs on the afternoon of the 4th and morning of the 5th. What I'd hate is for us to have a lead of 150-200 and not win because we run out of time.
Personally I'd tell these 2 to stay sensible and bat as they are until Lunch, that should see us with a 60-70 lead and then after lunch I'd say just go for it and smash them out of the game.
I don't disagree, the worst case though would be for them to get in at that time but only 100-120 behind. If we're batting after tea it has to be with an aim of not batting again so we need to push the score along, especially given that the pitch looks better for Batting than Aussie bowling at the moment (but I suspect we're looking forward to bowling again on this one).
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 11:54:19 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:13:53 PM
Moeen really does need to contribute here.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:17:45 PM
I cannot see how Moeen justifies his place in the team. That was pathetic.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 12:17:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 12:18:46 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 03, 2019, 12:20:57 PM
Fuckin ell Mo you useless prick. He needs a hatful of wickets now if he's going to play more this series.
Yep, a fucking shocker. England have a chance to get a good lead and it looks like they will fuck it up.
Post by: manic-road on August 03, 2019, 12:22:44 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 12:22:49 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:23:42 PM
So much for the strength of our lower order. Just handed the advantage to Australia on a plate
Post by: OzVilla on August 03, 2019, 12:25:11 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:25:38 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 12:25:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 12:26:18 PM
Across the 2 innings so far we probably let them get 100 more than they should've and now we've gifted them cheap wickets when we should've been looking at getting another 70-80. I'm not sure i like us giving away the best part of 200 runs like that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 12:26:24 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:27:01 PM
The other 3 dismissals were village cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 12:30:13 PM
Post by: Risso on August 03, 2019, 12:31:28 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 03, 2019, 12:32:23 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 12:32:34 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 03, 2019, 12:33:04 PM
This is why I always think England need to accelerate a bit in games like this, we have a bad habit of giving away cheap wickets.
Across the 2 innings so far we probably let them get 100 more than they should've and now we've gifted them cheap wickets when we should've been looking at getting another 70-80. I'm not sure i like us giving away the best part of 200 runs like that.
Need to accelerate? That's part of the reason they are losing wickets. If they had dug in like yesterday they could have built up a decent lead.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:34:02 PM
Does Moeen actually practice batting anymore?
He did an odd article in the Guardian about how he would be judged on his bowling during the series.
No Mo, you are in the team as an allrounder. The carefree attitude of "it doesn't matter how many runs I get" is not an acceptable one.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 12:34:59 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 12:35:31 PM
No Mo, you are in the team as an allrounder. The carefree attitude of "it doesn't matter how many runs I get" is not an acceptable one.Exactly. He's nowhere near being the best spinner in the country; it's because he's the best spinning allrounder in the country that he's in the team. If he isn't scoring it's time to go with a specialist spinner.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 12:40:04 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 12:41:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 12:46:54 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 12:51:28 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 12:52:52 PM
This is why I always think England need to accelerate a bit in games like this, we have a bad habit of giving away cheap wickets.
Across the 2 innings so far we probably let them get 100 more than they should've and now we've gifted them cheap wickets when we should've been looking at getting another 70-80. I'm not sure i like us giving away the best part of 200 runs like that.
Need to accelerate? That's part of the reason they are losing wickets. If they had dug in like yesterday they could have built up a decent lead.
It really isn't, it's just poor shot selection. We've scored 31 in 14 overs since Stokes went, that's not a team that's taking risks, it's batsmen in shocking form playing stupid shots. I think there's a bit of a habit in test cricket to say that any time a team loses wickets they should just go all out defence but, just like football, the game has changed and that's often the wrong thing to do. Bowling teams expect you to be more defensive and crowd the bat. counter-attacking by being a bit more aggressive for a few overs takes the game back to how it was before you lost the wicket(s) and you get a rhythm again.
Post by: manic-road on August 03, 2019, 01:01:40 PM
This is why I always think England need to accelerate a bit in games like this, we have a bad habit of giving away cheap wickets.
Across the 2 innings so far we probably let them get 100 more than they should've and now we've gifted them cheap wickets when we should've been looking at getting another 70-80. I'm not sure i like us giving away the best part of 200 runs like that.
Need to accelerate? That's part of the reason they are losing wickets. If they had dug in like yesterday they could have built up a decent lead.
It really isn't, it's just poor shot selection. We've scored 31 in 14 overs since Stokes went, that's not a team that's taking risks, it's batsmen in shocking form playing stupid shots. I think there's a bit of a habit in test cricket to say that any time a team loses wickets they should just go all out defence but, just like football, the game has changed and that's often the wrong thing to do. Bowling teams expect you to be more defensive and crowd the bat. counter-attacking by being a bit more aggressive for a few overs takes the game back to how it was before you lost the wicket(s) and you get a rhythm again.
I said part of the reason not the only reason, Bairstow was on the attack and it cost him his wicket whilst playing a shit shot.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 01:03:48 PM
Post by: Monty on August 03, 2019, 01:05:24 PM
It makes me furious because it's so unprofessional. Okay, Mo and Bairstow are struggling for runs but if they can't get the ball off the square just fuckin stay there and let the bloke at the other end do it.
They have this mentality that they're going to hit their way back into form, like they're Virender Sewhag. But look at Burns - slow, long, making absolutely sure he gets himself in and gets the rewards.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 01:06:11 PM
Yes be aggressive, but don't try and drive a ball back of a length with arms away from body (bairstow). Don't leave a ball pitching on middle stump (Ali). Don't try to cut a ball too close to you (Stokes). All 3 of those wickets were so needless.
Post by: manic-road on August 03, 2019, 01:12:31 PM
That’s good from Woakes and Broad. I’m impressed by Broad’s attitude in this game. He’s bowled with energy and then he’s batted with real diligence there.
Yes Broad looks like he has got his confidence back with the bat, he looked really nervous for a whilst after being struck in the head by a ball bowled by Varon Aaron.
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 01:15:11 PM
I said part of the reason not the only reason, Bairstow was on the attack and it cost him his wicket whilst playing a shit shot.
But the important bit is the shit shot, not the fact that he was trying to score. What about Moeen, he was trying to leave one that he should've played at so is leaving the ball part of the problem or is it just a shit decision?
This is my point, just blocking everything doesn't work, swinging at everything doesn't work so it's about finding the middle ground. Bairstow played a stupid shot because he had a strike rate of about 25% and, knowing he's in bad form, wanted to feel bat on ball and get a few boundaries, blaming the decision on him trying to get runs on the board but ignoring the amount of dots he'd faced building up to it is wrong, for me. If he'd rotated the strike better and been going at 50-60% he'd never have been in the position where he felt the need to smash at something. I think part of the problem here is you seme to think i mean gonig full t20 and trying to smash everything out of the ground when what I actually mean is trying to go from 2-3 a over to 4-5 a over.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 01:17:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 01:18:42 PM
It makes me furious because it's so unprofessional. Okay, Mo and Bairstow are struggling for runs but if they can't get the ball off the square just fuckin stay there and let the bloke at the other end do it.
They have this mentality that they're going to hit their way back into form, like they're Virender Sewhag. But look at Burns - slow, long, making absolutely sure he gets himself in and gets the rewards.
I get the point but I disagree players who naturally look to score aren't going to get back into form by not scoring, slow and steady works for Burns because that's the type of player he is. Moeen, in particular, should be playing county cricket and getting some form in a less pressured environment so he can come back and have an impact, changing his play style won't help him.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 01:36:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 03, 2019, 02:02:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 03, 2019, 02:04:48 PM
He’s hanging in there by a thread. He now needs 5 for nothingish in their second innings to keep his place.Does Moeen actually practice batting anymore?
He did an odd article in the Guardian about how he would be judged on his bowling during the series.
No Mo, you are in the team as an allrounder. The carefree attitude of "it doesn't matter how many runs I get" is not an acceptable one.
Post by: Risso on August 03, 2019, 02:07:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 02:08:58 PM
That's the difficulty though isn't it? How does a player whose game is based around attacking and scoring quickly turn things around when he can't get the ball off the square? You can't just say 'he needs to attack and score quickly' because that's the one thing, in that period, that he can't do. In that case I think you have to be out there as long as you can and then the runs will come simply through slow accumulation. The other point is that this is why the good players have more than Plan A. A lot of our batsmen, most in fact, only have Beast Mode.
Again though, slow accumulation and digging in aren't the same thing. Root is an accumulator but he often goes at 60-70% in tests. Burns was very much a dig in innings and it as different from Root as Buttler is. What we need people like Moeen and Bairstow to do, when they're struggling for form, is carry on putting bat to ball as they do, but more measured and looking to run between the wickets. Getting them to leave or block just doesn't work (both of them showed as much today, Moeen by leaving one he needed to play and Bairstow by getting frustrated and wafting at one that wasn't on). Focus on adapting where they're strong and using that as plan b rather than training them in a style that's completely unnatural to them.
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2019, 02:12:45 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 03, 2019, 02:16:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 03, 2019, 02:16:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 02:21:18 PM
What do you think people should Jimmy come in and bat?
Yes. Even if he just tries to hold an end.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 02:22:22 PM
That's the difficulty though isn't it? How does a player whose game is based around attacking and scoring quickly turn things around when he can't get the ball off the square? You can't just say 'he needs to attack and score quickly' because that's the one thing, in that period, that he can't do. In that case I think you have to be out there as long as you can and then the runs will come simply through slow accumulation. The other point is that this is why the good players have more than Plan A. A lot of our batsmen, most in fact, only have Beast Mode.
Again though, slow accumulation and digging in aren't the same thing. Root is an accumulator but he often goes at 60-70% in tests. Burns was very much a dig in innings and it as different from Root as Buttler is. What we need people like Moeen and Bairstow to do, when they're struggling for form, is carry on putting bat to ball as they do, but more measured and looking to run between the wickets. Getting them to leave or block just doesn't work (both of them showed as much today, Moeen by leaving one he needed to play and Bairstow by getting frustrated and wafting at one that wasn't on). Focus on adapting where they're strong and using that as plan b rather than training them in a style that's completely unnatural to them.
Ah well we'll have to agree to disagree.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 02:38:36 PM
What do you think people should Jimmy come in and bat?
Absolutely. He looks more than healthy enough to in fairness.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 02:40:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 02:49:29 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 02:50:40 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 02:51:23 PM
Ah well we'll have to agree to disagree.
It's not about disagreeing, I just don't see the point of picking someone like Bairstow and/or Ali and then expecting them to not play how they always have. If you want an obdurate defensive batsman at 7/8 who will stem the flow of wickets and make us fucking difficult to bowl out then find one and pick them but I doubt they'd be the right player for all circumstances, just like Bairstow and Moeen (even when in form) aren't always what we need at that point. The bigger problem, as ever, is sticking with players who are out of form in the hope that things just tick for them. A few games without a decent score is fine, but in the case of Moeen it's been at least a year and whilst his bowling has been ok he's not so good as to be picked as a pure bowling option.
Post by: manic-road on August 03, 2019, 02:51:28 PM
Ah Broad gone. Well done though.
Yes, an important partnership in the context of the game. Hope Woakes can hang around a bit, not expecting many quick singles with Jimmy at the other end.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 03:07:14 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 03:09:09 PM
I think I'll perhaps leave it there.Ah well we'll have to agree to disagree.
It's not about disagreeing, I just don't see the point of picking someone like Bairstow and/or Ali and then expecting them to not play how they always have. If you want an obdurate defensive batsman at 7/8 who will stem the flow of wickets and make us fucking difficult to bowl out then find one and pick them but I doubt they'd be the right player for all circumstances, just like Bairstow and Moeen (even when in form) aren't always what we need at that point. The bigger problem, as ever, is sticking with players who are out of form in the hope that things just tick for them. A few games without a decent score is fine, but in the case of Moeen it's been at least a year and whilst his bowling has been ok he's not so good as to be picked as a pure bowling option.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 03:17:34 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 03, 2019, 03:19:37 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 03:21:38 PM
90 lead is very good considering the score when Bairstow and Ali departed however England need to pick up wickets in the first 30 overs after that it gets difficult.Just get Smith. It all depends on him.
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 03:27:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 03:27:28 PM
Need to have them 4 down with Smith gone at worst by the time the scores are level
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 03:50:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 03, 2019, 03:51:13 PM
Warner gone on review.
Of all the bad decisions, that one was the worst. That deviated a long way
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 03:52:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:12:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:13:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:19:54 PM
Now get Smith early.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:23:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:29:19 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 04:31:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:41:32 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 04:49:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 04:54:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 04:56:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 05:01:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 05:12:00 PM
Runs coming far too easily at the moment.
Big wicket. Warner had the potential to wipe the deficit out quickly.
(not picking on you there, they're just the 2 that reflect it best).
By counter-attacking they created worry, yes we've got wickets at good times but by being more aggressive early in a partnership you do create an uncertainty which leads to:
Why is the field so spread?
I'm not saying it's the only way to respond, I'm just pointing out that, in my opinion, it what we should've done when Bairstow and Moeen came in, I'd have preferred them getting 20 from 25 and out more than 8 and 0 respectively.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 05:22:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 05:25:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2019, 06:10:48 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2019, 06:24:44 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 06:41:34 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 03, 2019, 07:06:20 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 03, 2019, 08:33:54 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 03, 2019, 11:13:52 PM
It was quite attritional at times today but it was proper test cricket. An interesting couple of days ahead.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 03, 2019, 11:28:42 PM
I’ve had a good day today but it was the flattest atmosphere that I can remember for a Saturday of a test at Edgbaston against the Crims. I wasn’t in the Hollies but they were undoubtedly having a good time amongst themselves and weren’t inspired by events on the pitch.
It was quite attritional at times today but it was proper test cricket. An interesting couple of days ahead.
For a fair while now, we've pretty much battered all-comers at Edgbaston. With your observations in your last paragraph, I wonder were those watching "flat", or maybe engrossed in a tight game?
Fwiw, I think it's been a brilliant third day. Game on.
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 12:31:29 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2019, 04:52:44 AM
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Our test batting line up are more than capable.of collapsing in a heap.30 overs would be enoigh for us to do that
Post by: Ad@m on August 04, 2019, 06:18:03 AM
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Our test batting line up are more than capable.of collapsing in a heap.30 overs would be enoigh for us to do that
Exactly. Even if we lose all of Monday to the weather (which is possible given the forecast) we're not out of the woods as long as Smith's in.
Post by: Holte132 on August 04, 2019, 08:22:05 AM
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Our test batting line up are more than capable.of collapsing in a heap.30 overs would be enoigh for us to do that
Exactly. Even if we lose all of Monday to the weather (which is possible given the forecast) we're not out of the woods as long as Smith's in.
Monday is the 5th day anyway, so if we lose the day to the weather then it will be a draw - unless the match finishes today.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 09:34:57 AM
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
I support your optimism but that is definitely not true. An Australia win is still very much a possibility.
Post by: Drummond on August 04, 2019, 09:40:02 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 04, 2019, 09:44:26 AM
This really is a great test match. Could go either way. Couple of early wickets needed this morning though I think.
If one of these early wickets is Smith then I think the rest of their batsmen will fold quite easily. If the early wicket is Head then Smith will dig in and become almost immovable. He’s like a wall when he’s in that kind of mood and will easily rotate the strike against our weakened attack on a dead pitch.
Post by: OzVilla on August 04, 2019, 11:11:27 AM
Anderson’s stuffed us. Carrying a calf injury, declares himself fit and can only bowl 4 overs in the match.
Post by: tricky59 on August 04, 2019, 11:36:54 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2019, 11:47:28 AM
Post by: Ad@m on August 04, 2019, 11:52:08 AM
The pitch has completely died. No seam, no swing, no pace in it at all. Little to no spin.
I bet Nathan Lyon will get something out of it...
Post by: OzVilla on August 04, 2019, 11:52:21 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 11:53:45 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 11:56:12 AM
This is shit. Moeen a club cricketer right now.
Yep he looks completely shot at the moment. We’re basically two bowlers down. I’d have a look at Denly.
Post by: Ad@m on August 04, 2019, 11:57:35 AM
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Our test batting line up are more than capable.of collapsing in a heap.30 overs would be enoigh for us to do that
Exactly. Even if we lose all of Monday to the weather (which is possible given the forecast) we're not out of the woods as long as Smith's in.
Monday is the 5th day anyway, so if we lose the day to the weather then it will be a draw - unless the match finishes today.
Exactly. If Smith stays in Australia will be 200 infront by mid-afternoon If they're ballsy they could let loose for half an hour and stick us in at tea chasing 250+.
We're more than capable of collapsing under cloudy skies in a session.
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 11:58:25 AM
Interesting to open with Moeen, a huge vote of confidence. Needs to bowl well or else.As a senior player Anderson has to take the responsibility for this. He wasn't honest to himself or the team. Selectors MUST now discount him for the rest of the series and look to Curren and/or Archer.
Anderson’s stuffed us. Carrying a calf injury, declares himself fit and can only bowl 4 overs in the match.
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 04, 2019, 11:59:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:02:33 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:09:12 PM
Post by: tricky59 on August 04, 2019, 12:12:44 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 12:12:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:13:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 12:14:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 12:17:07 PM
Moeen's the one who's fucked us. Second innings is when the spinner is supposed to come to the party but he's taken 1 for 71 at nearly 4.5 per over on a wicket takes definitely taking spin.Yes and no. Moeen is fit to play however he is not in good form and should not have been picked for this match. However that's not his fault unlike Anderson.
Post by: Ad@m on August 04, 2019, 12:18:02 PM
The match will not finish today. Australia are not likely to declare before they have a lead of 320 plus and no more than 1 hour of play left today. The unlikely scenario of Australia being bowled out mid afternoon with a lead of 250 is now not going to happen. Play time will be lost this afternoon and also tomorrow. A draw is now the most favourable result.
We won't be able to chase down 220, let alone 320.
We can't get Smith out - if the Aussies are aggressive the match is there for the taking.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:18:25 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2019, 12:18:59 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 12:20:16 PM
Anderson shouldn't have been picked, that's quite true, but I'm hesitant to blame someone who isn't playing over the shit performance of someone who is.Moeen's the one who's fucked us. Second innings is when the spinner is supposed to come to the party but he's taken 1 for 71 at nearly 4.5 per over on a wicket takes definitely taking spin.Yes and no. Moeen is fit to play however he is not in good form and should not have been picked for this match. However that's not his fault unlike Anderson.
Post by: CT on August 04, 2019, 12:22:39 PM
Do they just scan your phone for the ticket barcode?? I assume just get there as early as possible as well for the parking?
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 12:25:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:26:33 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 12:27:42 PM
I'm thinking of going tomorrow with my lad as I'm off work. The tickets are cheap too and I've never seen an Ashes test match.They can do either. However if you can print it please do that as I have seen people having some difficulty with phone scans.
Do they just scan your phone for the ticket barcode?? I assume just get there as early as possible as well for the parking?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:29:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2019, 12:32:59 PM
He’s not bowled today and has only bowled 6 overs in the innings.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 12:33:35 PM
Remember it is very difficult to establish scientifically if a a player is 100% fit after some injuries so the final judgement is left to the player. Anderson let his heart rule his head and declared himself fit and made the bowling attack in effective. Again picking an out of form player is NOT the player's fault.He hasn't made them ineffective: Broad and Woakes were outstanding in the first innings. His absence has made them work harder, yes, but that's all. Besides, how do you know for sure that he picked himself? That's just speculation. He's got more than enough credit in the bank for me not to start on him.
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 04, 2019, 12:35:11 PM
Been a see saw test match certainly, Aussies should've been bowled out for 200 first innings. Should've taken the 10/1 on draw that was floating around Friday afternoon.
Edit: With Jimmy struggling is Archer going to be available for Lords?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:35:20 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
How bad is the forecast for tomorrow? Was supposed to be rain a few times already but mostly play been unaffected.
Been a see saw test match certainly, Aussies should've been bowled out for 200 first innings. Should've taken the 10/1 on draw that was floating around Friday afternoon.
Edit: With Jimmy struggling is Archer going to be available for Lords?
Archer was fielding for a while earlier, so I assume he’s fit.
Have the rules on sub fielders changed ? Does it now have to be a member of the squad?
Im not keen on Archer fielding. Where’s the 2019 Gary Pratt ?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 12:45:10 PM
Archer was fielding for a while earlier, so I assume he’s fit.I'm pretty sure I saw a couple of sub fielders the other day who I didn't recognise. Olly Stone did it for quite a while on day 1 but presumably he's been released back to Warwickshire now.
Have the rules on sub fielders changed ? Does it now have to be a member of the squad?
Im not keen on Archer fielding. Where’s the 2019 Gary Pratt ?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:50:13 PM
I’m guessing Woakes does have a problem as well.
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 04, 2019, 12:53:43 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2019, 12:54:31 PM
I never enjoyed fielding but the thing that caused me to give up playing was wasting weekend afternoons sat in tin huts in villages around the Welsh border as the rain fell
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 12:57:35 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 04, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
Stone is on for Jimmy and is having an exciting day stood on the boundary
I never enjoyed fielding but the thing that caused me to give up playing was wasting weekend afternoons sat in tin huts in villages around the Welsh border as the rain fell
UK Redsox, it's my last year of playing league cricket. Nothing worse than turning up at Glangrwyney and trying to bat on a shocker of a pitch as well as the Saturdays spent either fielding or umpiring when I could be down the Villa.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 01:02:13 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 01:59:06 PM
Why would you enter an ashes test match based on past performance? Why would you go in at the age of 37, being a fast bowler, knowing full well that you had an injury that has not been properly tested on field of play? It’s not credit in the bank it’s cash on the pitch that’s required to win a test match. England being a bowler short has debilitated the attacking options. Woakes and Broad are being overworked.Remember it is very difficult to establish scientifically if a a player is 100% fit after some injuries so the final judgement is left to the player. Anderson let his heart rule his head and declared himself fit and made the bowling attack in effective. Again picking an out of form player is NOT the player's fault.He hasn't made them ineffective: Broad and Woakes were outstanding in the first innings. His absence has made them work harder, yes, but that's all. Besides, how do you know for sure that he picked himself? That's just speculation. He's got more than enough credit in the bank for me not to start on him.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 02:07:12 PM
Why would you enter an ashes test match based on past performance? Why would you go in at the age of 37, being a fast bowler, knowing full well that you had an injury that has not been properly tested on field of play? It’s not credit in the bank it’s cash on the pitch that’s required to win a test match. England being a bowler short has debilitated the attacking options. Woakes and Broad are being overworked.Woakes has bowled fewer overs than Pat Cummins. Ben Stokes has bowled the same amount as Cummins. Broad has bowled 3 overs more than Cummins. They've bowled more than they would have, obviously, but they're not being bowled into the ground.
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 02:11:49 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 02:23:24 PM
Australian’s pre-match bowling plan is working as they planned it England’s plan has been disrupted by a suspect selection failing after 4 overs on the first day. That’s the difference.Fair enough. I've made my point too I think so I'll leave it there.
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 02:25:50 PM
🤝😊Australian’s pre-match bowling plan is working as they planned it England’s plan has been disrupted by a suspect selection failing after 4 overs on the first day. That’s the difference.Fair enough. I've made my point too I think so I'll leave it there.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 04, 2019, 02:27:21 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 04, 2019, 02:37:03 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2019, 02:40:25 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2019, 02:43:24 PM
Post by: CT on August 04, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 02:50:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 02:52:10 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2019, 02:53:06 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/YdS4FYx/5993-E8-AE-D1-CC-4-B3-C-BACC-4-BAFE65-B6-B01.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YdS4FYx)
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 03:00:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 03:02:27 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 04, 2019, 03:10:26 PM
Post by: Monty on August 04, 2019, 03:14:07 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2019, 03:22:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 03:27:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 03:32:25 PM
Root's captaincy has been horribly exposed here.Yup. I am afraid Joe is not a full shilling when it comes to captaining a cricket team. Totally out of his depth.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2019, 03:43:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 03:50:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 03:56:45 PM
Post by: tricky59 on August 04, 2019, 04:00:31 PM
This has England 50-5 in our reply written all over it.This is a definite with me having a ticket for tomorrow.
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2019, 04:07:50 PM
Losing Jimmy has been a massive blow, Moeen looking like he's completely lost the plot is making it worse. Bairstow has been dire with the bat and gloves as well.
Foakes, Archer and Curran in for those 3 for the 2nd test for me.
Post by: Villafirst on August 04, 2019, 04:08:14 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 04:13:47 PM
Foakes, Archer and Curran in for those 3 for the 2nd test for me.Foakes and Archer absolutely but I don't think we need 5 seamers at Lord's. I'd have Leach in. If Woakes isn't fit then I'd have Curran too.
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 04:15:44 PM
Bairstow has been fucking dreadful in this game.He hasn't played enough competitive cricket as a wicket keeper this season. That's another flow in England's strategy.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 04:18:35 PM
Jimmy obviously out, Moeen has to go and I’d seriously consider hooking Bairstow. Buttler needs runs in the second innings too. If he’s in as a pure batsmen he needs to do a proper job.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 04:20:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 04:25:43 PM
I think the Aussies are going to declare at about 5.15 and hoping to pick up a couple of wickets tonight. It will be a big test for Roy and Burns.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 04:53:56 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2019, 05:25:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 05:26:30 PM
Post by: Nev on August 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
Ball being changed because it landed in a pint of beer
And the exchange between Atherton and Botham following it was toe curling.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 05:30:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 05:34:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 05:42:47 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 04, 2019, 05:51:20 PM
Shows what aftab knows😉
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 05:54:20 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2019, 06:00:49 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on August 04, 2019, 06:04:33 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2019, 06:09:22 PM
All out before tea tomorrow
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2019, 06:21:45 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 06:26:07 PM
Tim Paine has a really punchable face.I think Nathan Lyon is worse.
Post by: Ad@m on August 04, 2019, 06:27:11 PM
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Well Olaftab, this comment hasn't aged well! 😉
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 04, 2019, 06:29:35 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 04, 2019, 06:33:03 PM
I know it's not as simplistic as it sounds, but you take out Smith's knock and they're still 240 ahead with 3 left. Google win predictor has us down to 3%, aussies edging out the draw.
Shows what aftab knows😉
Haha...honestly you lot you are all like proper Villa fans in a match thread! I stand by my word. I expect the lads to see out tomorrow for a draw and to back that I have just bought a ticket to be at Edgbaston to defend every ball if it can't be smashed for a 4 or a 6. ;DRegardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Well Olaftab, this comment hasn't aged well! 😉
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2019, 07:03:18 PM
Post by: CT on August 04, 2019, 07:46:15 PM
Post by: Nev on August 04, 2019, 07:55:44 PM
Can you just turn up and pay on the day?
It's 25 quid, you can buy on the day but they're encouraging everyone online to PAH.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 08:09:17 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on August 04, 2019, 08:25:29 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2019, 09:10:29 PM
With this dukes ball not swinging, our bowlers need the ball seaming at right angles.
Post by: Monty on August 04, 2019, 09:14:39 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 04, 2019, 09:21:27 PM
I've never seen a player like Smith. Yes Root did not captain well today at all, very exposed, but honestly how do you captain well to Smith? When the bowler comes in to Smith, it's like his various constituent body-parts are disconnected like they're hanging from different strings; when the ball arrives at him, he has the density of a rock. There's no planning for him, because whatever you think his weaknesses look like in stance, technique, backlift, whatever, they mean nothing the moment after you've released the ball. We're honestly watching one of the absolute all-time greats, and to be honest we're lucky.I'll appreciate him more when he's gone, like I did with Viv Richards, Miandad, Richie Richardson, Gilchrist, Martin Crowe, Gordon Greenidge and all those guys. I recognise his greatness already but I can't bear seeing my team ground into the dirt like that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2019, 10:08:13 PM
England’s much vaunted “engine room” of Stokes, Buttler, Bairstow and Ali needs to turn up. Only Stokes performed well in the first innings. There should be more than enough batting to save this game if they apply themselves, but they need to deliver.
The best keeper is Foakes, so Bairstow only keeps his place if he’s delivering runs. Go out and end the day not out Jonny.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 04, 2019, 11:07:06 PM
I’ll be stunned if we see out a draw here. The momentum of this game has swung so massively to Aus.
Went today and would have to agree. It was a very hard slog and we just looked lost at times. Sounds obvious, but I think the first couple of hours are key. Survive those without losing a wicket or just losing one and we might be able to build on that. Lied a few wickets in that time and we could see a procession.
Roy looks very vulnerable just outside off stump.
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 10:54:26 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 10:55:31 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2019, 11:04:39 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2019, 11:14:20 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on August 05, 2019, 11:17:10 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 11:17:22 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 05, 2019, 11:32:17 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 11:32:26 AM
The crowd's version of the Jerusalem was even worse than normal today, even Aggers said how bad it was.There are not many and definitely not the usual in Rea Bank today.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 11:57:07 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 12:16:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 12:19:24 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 12:19:39 PM
I know Roy is in the team to play in a positive manner, but I am absolutely gobsmacked he has just done that.
Post by: OzVilla on August 05, 2019, 12:20:27 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 05, 2019, 12:21:20 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 12:21:38 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 12:22:24 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 12:24:32 PM
I don't mind the aggression, but there has to be some semblance of a thought process.
Post by: OzVilla on August 05, 2019, 12:27:50 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 12:32:22 PM
The 'respect' shown to Lyon is that we don't want him bowling at us so try to hit him out of the attack. Cummins, Pattinson and Siddle are unlikely to take 8 wickets on this pitch without him.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 12:36:49 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 12:39:38 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 12:40:21 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 12:42:59 PM
Poor review from Denly, not sure what he was thinking there.That he hadn't hit it
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 12:47:07 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 05, 2019, 12:51:47 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 12:54:18 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 01:03:15 PM
For starters the pitch at Lords must be extremely green. This dukes ball isn't swinging so we need it to seam appreciably.
Sibley
Burns
Root
Roy
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach
Would be my team, assuming that Anderson is injured. Moeen and Bairstow look incapable of contributing at the moment, Denly doesn't look good enough and Roy has played his first class cricket in the middle order.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 01:07:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 01:13:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 01:15:12 PM
1-0 down going to the aussies favourite ground is going to be very difficult to come back from.
For starters the pitch at Lords must be extremely green. This dukes ball isn't swinging so we need it to seam appreciably.
Sibley
Burns
Root
Roy
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach
Would be my team, assuming that Anderson is injured. Moeen and Bairstow look incapable of contributing at the moment, Denly doesn't look good enough and Roy has played his first class cricket in the middle order.
I'd be ok with that team but Lords isn't generally all that great for spinners so, if it's green, I'd consider Curran over Leach.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 01:18:39 PM
1-0 down going to the aussies favourite ground is going to be very difficult to come back from.
For starters the pitch at Lords must be extremely green. This dukes ball isn't swinging so we need it to seam appreciably.
Sibley
Burns
Root
Roy
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach
Would be my team, assuming that Anderson is injured. Moeen and Bairstow look incapable of contributing at the moment, Denly doesn't look good enough and Roy has played his first class cricket in the middle order.
I'd be ok with that team but Lords isn't generally all that great for spinners so, if it's green, I'd consider Curran over Leach.
I'd go Leach partly because Smith's record against left arm spin isn't great.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 01:23:12 PM
Look at the difference between Smith and Root. Smith most likely has won the match through his sheer brilliance. Root has produced nothing consequential with the bat and was terrible with his captaincy in the field.
It's force of will with Smith that seperates him mostly from Root. I'd still say that technically there isn't a great deal between the two. However look at Smith in both of his innings in this match. Its almost a point blank refusal to get out, whereas Root seems to think the job is done when he passes 50.
Root has 42 fifties and 16 hundreds. Smith has 24 fifties and 25 hundreds. So Root has passed fifty nine more times than Smith, yet has gone on to hundred 9 less times. For a player of Roots quality that isn't good enough. He should be making match winning/defining innings far far more often than he does.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 01:24:28 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 01:40:07 PM
I'm looking forward to a quickfire 8 off 3 balls cameo from Bairstow.Just need Vaughan to go into the changing room and tell him he’s a useless lump of meat Devi’s of any brain cells.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 05, 2019, 01:43:17 PM
Pathetic morning. Also shows how bad Moeen was.
In fairness the stats show that day four is the best time to bat, and day five is the worst.
Not that I dispute that Ali was nowhere near his best.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 05, 2019, 01:45:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 01:48:17 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 01:49:45 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2019, 01:52:02 PM
And to think we had them at 122 for 8 on day one.
Earlier on, Aggers asked Andrew if a team had ever won a game after a worse start.
The answer.........last week, England against Ireland
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 01:58:04 PM
And to think we had them at 122 for 8 on day one.
That's the exact point that this game go away from us everyone 'knew' that they'd do well to set us over 150 from that point and getting near 200 would be brilliant from the tail. We let them steal at least 100 extra runs. We then fell apart in our reply and got 50-60 less than we should've. Their 3rd innings came on the back of us not giving them 250+ to chase which is what the lead should've been. As soon as they got 150 ahead they just piled the runs on knowing that they could be competitive defending anything from there on, which is what we should've been in a position to do the day before.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 01:59:03 PM
At least that way I will only be frustrated by my own bad shots
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 02:06:50 PM
I'm looking forward to a quickfire 8 off 3 balls cameo from Bairstow.Me and my big mouth.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 02:09:03 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 02:11:28 PM
The point is you have to work hard to get into the position where the middle order can play their shots. You can't just let them rock up and expect the ball to go to all parts. It just doesn't work like that in Test cricket. We really need to go back to basics.
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 02:11:54 PM
I’d quite to see Foakes come out and say he wants the gloves. Interesting to see how Jonny would react to that.
Probably hit a 50 and then act as if the discussion is over and go back to playing exactly as he this test.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 02:20:47 PM
Bairstow does seem a bit erratic mentally at the moment, a bit all over the place.I’d quite to see Foakes come out and say he wants the gloves. Interesting to see how Jonny would react to that.
Probably hit a 50 and then act as if the discussion is over and go back to playing exactly as he this test.
Post by: Monty on August 05, 2019, 02:43:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 02:46:37 PM
OK Jonny didn’t need to be told worked it out himself. Time for him to have a rest.I'm looking forward to a quickfire 8 off 3 balls cameo from Bairstow.Just need Vaughan to go into the changing room and tell him he’s a useless lump of meat devoid of any brain cells.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2019, 02:55:33 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 02:58:05 PM
What's the point in Jimmy batting ?The Woakes ton.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2019, 03:00:43 PM
What's the point in Jimmy batting ?The Woakes ton.
;D
Post by: dave shelley on August 05, 2019, 03:09:38 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on August 05, 2019, 03:14:09 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 03:15:58 PM
The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I'm not sure I agree, I don't think any of the wickets we've lost have come because the batsmen have been playing like their job was done. I just think we've picked too many people who are out of form. Going into the game I'd have said Burns, Denly, Bairstow and Ali were all out of form (and Buttler hasn't been himself this summer either) 1 or 2 of them turning that around during the game is possible but expecting 4 people to bat themselves into form in an ashes test is awful judgement and many of us had 2-3 of them as being dropped for this game for that very reason.
Anyway, all over and lost by 251. Given where things were on Thursday afternoon and Friday evening that's truly pathetic and a bunch of the players need to have a look at themselves.
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 03:19:50 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 05, 2019, 03:20:16 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 03:20:32 PM
I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think Monty's making a more general point about England's approach over the last 2 or 3 years, not specifically this match. Just look at who we've packed the side with.The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I'm not sure I agree, I don't think any of the wickets we've lost have come because the batsmen have been playing like their job was done. I just think we've picked too many people who are out of form. Going into the game I'd have said Burns, Denly, Bairstow and Ali were all out of form (and Buttler hasn't been himself this summer either) 1 or 2 of them turning that around during the game is possible but expecting 4 people to bat themselves into form in an ashes test is awful judgement and many of us had 2-3 of them as being dropped for this game for that very reason.
Anyway, all over and lost by 251. Given where things were on Thursday afternoon and Friday evening that's truly pathetic and a bunch of the players need to have a look at themselves.
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 03:59:23 PM
I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think Monty's making a more general point about England's approach over the last 2 or 3 years, not specifically this match. Just look at who we've packed the side with.The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I'm not sure I agree, I don't think any of the wickets we've lost have come because the batsmen have been playing like their job was done. I just think we've picked too many people who are out of form. Going into the game I'd have said Burns, Denly, Bairstow and Ali were all out of form (and Buttler hasn't been himself this summer either) 1 or 2 of them turning that around during the game is possible but expecting 4 people to bat themselves into form in an ashes test is awful judgement and many of us had 2-3 of them as being dropped for this game for that very reason.
Anyway, all over and lost by 251. Given where things were on Thursday afternoon and Friday evening that's truly pathetic and a bunch of the players need to have a look at themselves.
The problem is that we've picked (mostly) the best 4 day players from the county game. I think form and mentality are the problems with the England team, just as has been the case for years, certainly long before t20 became a big part of the game.
We can bring Sibley or Crawley in at the top, we can bring Foakes and Leach in further down but if we get a team to 122/8 and then back off and let them build a partnership we're going to struggle. Root, for me, has a massive question mark over his captaincy right now, how we bowled to Smith in the fist innings was pathetic. I'd like to know who made the decision on Anderson as well, he should've been bowling in the nets at full pace for a day or 2 before and proving he could handle it.
Post by: Steve67 on August 05, 2019, 03:59:43 PM
I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think Monty's making a more general point about England's approach over the last 2 or 3 years, not specifically this match. Just look at who we've packed the side with.The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I'm not sure I agree, I don't think any of the wickets we've lost have come because the batsmen have been playing like their job was done. I just think we've picked too many people who are out of form. Going into the game I'd have said Burns, Denly, Bairstow and Ali were all out of form (and Buttler hasn't been himself this summer either) 1 or 2 of them turning that around during the game is possible but expecting 4 people to bat themselves into form in an ashes test is awful judgement and many of us had 2-3 of them as being dropped for this game for that very reason.
Anyway, all over and lost by 251. Given where things were on Thursday afternoon and Friday evening that's truly pathetic and a bunch of the players need to have a look at themselves.
I don't disagree with any of you but I'd go further than that. Root is no captain. Great batsman but not positive enough as a captain. What the fuck is the Australian still doing in charge? He did his bit by winning the one day WC, but he has never prioritised the longer form of the game. Offer the job to Andrew Strauss today. Bairstow has had an absolute mare with the bat, and the gloves. Ali has played his last test of the summer, get back to the Pears and put some performances together. Denly isn't good enough either. Broad and Anderson need replacing now. Broad is playing on muscle memory and gets in the odd good half hour here and there and thinks that's a job done. I agree with Monty about the out of form stuff, but who is there to replace them with? It's all a bit 'after the Lord Mayor's show' and they have to get it together. Screw the Aussies up by bringing in Stone and Archer for Broad and Anderson, for starters. 122 for 8, to win by 251 runs? This is right up there with one of the most incompetent performances I have ever seen from any England side.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 04:11:51 PM
What the fuck is the Australian still doing in charge? He did his bit by winning the one day WC, but he has never prioritised the longer form of the game. Offer the job to Andrew Strauss today.Strauss himself appointed Bayliss though, because the ECB decided that one-day cricket was where they wanted the game to go. Strauss was totally on board with that approach. Giles will now be responsible for picking the next coach, he wants someone to tip things back in favour of red ball cricket and it won't be Strauss. They're looking at Chris Silverwood to step up apparently with Andrew McDonald another contender.
Post by: Steve67 on August 05, 2019, 04:27:20 PM
What the fuck is the Australian still doing in charge? He did his bit by winning the one day WC, but he has never prioritised the longer form of the game. Offer the job to Andrew Strauss today.Strauss himself appointed Bayliss though, because the ECB decided that one-day cricket was where they wanted the game to go. Strauss was totally on board with that approach. Giles will now be responsible for picking the next coach, he wants someone to tip things back in favour of red ball cricket and it won't be Strauss. They're looking at Chris Silverwood to step up apparently with Andrew McDonald another contender.
Yes mate, I know they are looking at Silverwood. No real pedigree there though, I also know that Strauss chose Bayliss. I just think that Strauss could go in and pick up the reins given they were fairly in sync when Bayliss was selected. Bayliss goes at the end of this series come what may. I just hope that Giles, who also did not impress me one bit, not sure why though, does the right thing and doesn't go with the easy option. I want us to try to get the very best available.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 04:36:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 04:44:15 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 05, 2019, 04:45:41 PM
Anderson should miss the Lords test to fully recover from the calf injury that he made worse when he tweaked it whilst batting on Saturday. If Archer comes through the 4 day game for Sussex stiffs then he should replace Jimmy. I’d keep Broad in the side as we need his knowledge and know how.
Bairstow and Ali are the biggest issue for me. Both should be sent back to their respective counties to find some form. Curran has to play in the next test and does Leach so I’d make Buttler keep wicket. I really like Foakes but I’m prepared to give Buttler time.
We have lost home Ashes tests heavily before now and have still worn the series, let’s not panic quite yet.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 04:48:37 PM
I still think most teams would have survived relatively easily today on that pitch. We folded easily.
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 04:54:43 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 05, 2019, 05:00:55 PM
Right I think time to replace Joe as skipper. He is resembling Botham and Gower when they were captains. My suggestion is Burns because he is a County captain failing that Livingstone from Lancs?
Buttler or Stokes
Post by: tomd2103 on August 05, 2019, 05:26:26 PM
.
Post by: Steve67 on August 05, 2019, 05:39:11 PM
Don't want to make excuses for them, but I went yesterday and some of them looked tired (Stokes could hardly move after bowling). Think the World Cup might have taken a lot out of some of them.
.
One would expect the Coach to recognise that. The guy doesn't even watch county games!.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 06:00:49 PM
Root had a dreadful game as captain. Starting right from the Aussie first innings when he put every fielder on the boundary for Smith. Absolutely idiotic. It just got worse yesterday.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 06:04:42 PM
You could argue that Burns, Root, Buttler, Denly, Bairstow and Ali all came into this game in poor form. Only one of those players genuinely found their way out of that poor form, Burns. Root did to an extent, but you cannot carry that many players. Did the others get more than 50 runs between them in the entire game?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 05, 2019, 06:06:28 PM
I agree about bowling to Smith in the 1st innings. That was just giving up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 06:11:40 PM
Post by: tricky59 on August 05, 2019, 06:11:56 PM
I can't see Roy being a test player, Moeen has been all over the place with his batting and bowling, Buttler and Bairstow do not give me any confidence and, although I like Denly's technique at 33 he is not the No 4 we need.
I can see that Archer and Leach can come in next time and Foakes, if he is available, is a better keeper and batsman than Bairstow or Buttler when the chips are down. As for the other shortcomings I don't have an answer.
Aussies have questions about their batting but they have a good bowling unit.
It's going to be difficult to get back into this.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2019, 06:18:00 PM
He is one I’m less concerned about though, I think he can deliver and needs time.
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 06:35:20 PM
Post by: Richard on August 05, 2019, 07:28:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 05, 2019, 09:03:19 PM
Roy has the talent, but he needs to think about the situation. If we had been chasing say 220 for a win today I could have reconciled what he did, because in that situation knocking Lyon out of the game makes sense and is a calculated risk. However in this game we were never every scoring 400 on the last day, so even if Roy had put that ball in the stands what does it do? There’s no scoreboard pressure on Australia, so it was a risk that offered no benefit. That’s all about decision making and he needs to learn that.
He is one I’m less concerned about though, I think he can deliver and needs time.
I don't quite agree, very few bowlers like getting smashed around in a test. if Roy had gone after him and got 7-8 boundaries in 4-5 overs I think the atmosphere of the game would've changed. The problem was they lad a trap by offering him space to charge out and smash through cow corner/mid-wicket and he didn't have the test experience to see how Lyon was going to bowl to that field before he ran in head first. It was a very silly shot and he should know better but the idea of going after Lyon was fine for me. That their quicks got cheap wickets later was more testament to how poorly we were batting than a sign that the pitch had anything in it for them.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 05, 2019, 09:44:21 PM
Post by: Risso on August 05, 2019, 10:46:37 PM
I’d also like an explanation of the lack of Woakes bowling yesterday. If he’s injured that’s bad, but understandable. If he wasn’t then it casts further doubt on Root’s captaincy. Not least because he’s put extra miles in Broad and Stokes legs and we’ve got all sorts of injury concerns.
Root had a dreadful game as captain. Starting right from the Aussie first innings when he put every fielder on the boundary for Smith. Absolutely idiotic. It just got worse yesterday.
He looks like a little boy lost to be honest. His batting is crap at the moment, and nothing he seems to do in terms of on-field decision making seems to work. To lose as badly as that considering where we had them in the first innings was really poor. He's just not leading by example, either in his batting or his general organisation.
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2019, 11:18:27 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 05, 2019, 11:23:08 PM
I’d also bring Malan in. The Aussies picked form batsmen very deliberately, we haven’t.
You could argue that Burns, Root, Buttler, Denly, Bairstow and Ali all came into this game in poor form. Only one of those players genuinely found their way out of that poor form, Burns. Root did to an extent, but you cannot carry that many players. Did the others get more than 50 runs between them in the entire game?
I'd rather see Dominic Sibley instead of Malan......
Post by: Villafirst on August 05, 2019, 11:26:35 PM
When the Aussies were 122/8 Root had no slip fielders for Smith allowing him to pick his shots without worry or bother. Amongst his many errors that was the worst.
With a fully fit Anderson, Australia wouldn't have got 150. We played with 10 men most of the match. That decision to play Jimmy cost us the match, end of.....
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2019, 12:19:13 AM
When the Aussies were 122/8 Root had no slip fielders for Smith allowing him to pick his shots without worry or bother. Amongst his many errors that was the worst.
With a fully fit Anderson, Australia wouldn't have got 150. We played with 10 men most of the match. That decision to play Jimmy cost us the match, end of.....
That's a big part of the problem but if we don't try to bowl Smith out for the entire series then we're going to be embarrassed repeatedly, I agree completely with Aftab, spreading the field to Smith when we had them at 122/8 was fucking awful game management from Root.
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on August 06, 2019, 12:34:04 AM
Picking another spinner may have got Steve Smith out earlier, twice. All said in hindsight admittedly.
As we have said many times, we go again....
Post by: UK Redsox on August 06, 2019, 11:09:42 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49247129
Hopefully Smith/Taylor will insist that he plays at least on 4 day game before being considered for selection.
Lancs play Glam on 18 Aug, so that might be a possible
Post by: Ads on August 06, 2019, 11:50:33 AM
Fingers crossed he proves fit and if so, I'd go with;
Burns
Roy
Root
Stokes
Butler
Bairstow
Woakes
Curran
Broad
Lynch
Archer
Denley is not up to it and we need Archer's pace and Curran's lateral movement. Mo shouldn't start either in desperate form.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 06, 2019, 11:54:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2019, 12:36:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 06, 2019, 01:06:08 PM
I’d still drop Bairstow and Ali though, Foakes, Archer and Leach to come in.
Burns, Roy, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Curran, Foakes, Woakes, Broad, Archer, Leach.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 06, 2019, 01:30:58 PM
I agree they will probably make just the 2 changes, with Archer and Leach in for Jimmy and Moeen. However, I really don't see how Bairstow justifies his place in the test team at the moment. Foakes is far more likely to contribute runs and is a better keeper.
Post by: olaftab on August 06, 2019, 01:31:05 PM
Bairstow and Buttler are both in really poor form. I’d genuinely consider swapping Bairstow for Foakes.Yes. I am not sure if Denly should get another chance? Leach must come in for Ali.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 06, 2019, 01:34:43 PM
Bairstow and Buttler are both in really poor form. I’d genuinely consider swapping Bairstow for Foakes.Yes. I am not sure if Denly should get another chance? Leach must come in for Ali.
I wouldn't pick Denly. He just doesn't look test quality.
Roy to bat at 4 like he does for Surrey and Sibley who has been in good form to open with Burns. That would be my choice but the selectors will stick with Roy at opener for the whole series.
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2019, 01:35:30 PM
I'd swap Bairstow and Ali out for Foakes and Leach (or Curran if they don't think there'll be much spin and it's very green) along with Archer in for Jimmy. I think Curran and Archer are different enough from Woakes, Broad and Stokes that you're not stacking the team with too many of the same type of bowler and it means less bowling for Stokes, which I like because he's needed with the bat.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 06, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Curran is probably a better bet with the bat than Bairstow at the moment.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 06, 2019, 02:01:41 PM
I recall reading a serialisation of his autobiography and he claimed that one of the Aussies racially abused him and called him Osama in the 2015 Ashes. He didn’t name the player but if he’s still in the side now then it could well be affecting him.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 06, 2019, 02:57:12 PM
https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1158700008826384384
Post by: Villan For Life on August 06, 2019, 03:12:37 PM
Archer in action against Glos 2nds
https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1158700008826384384
That run up looks so smooth and easy, reminiscent of Michael Holidng.
Post by: olaftab on August 06, 2019, 04:40:16 PM
I wonder if playing the Aussies really gets to Moeen? His form deserted him on the last tour down under and the same appears to be happening now.I have no doubt that Aussies have given him some horrific sledging but he needs to deal with. If that is affecting his form he needs to work on his mental toughness.
I recall reading a serialisation of his autobiography and he claimed that one of the Aussies racially abused him and called him Osama in the 2015 Ashes. He didn’t name the player but if he’s still in the side now then it could well be affecting him.
Post by: Ads on August 06, 2019, 04:42:58 PM
Archer in action against Glos 2nds
https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1158700008826384384
Haha he's terrifying!
6-27 and he's knocked 55*. Get. Him. In.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2019, 05:30:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2019, 06:56:13 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 06, 2019, 07:00:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2019, 07:06:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2019, 07:39:06 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 06, 2019, 07:39:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2019, 07:45:08 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 06, 2019, 08:21:01 PM
I just don’t see who Stone would come in for. I imagine he’s next cab off the rank behind Archer, but hopefully he won’t be needed.
For Broad. He's living on his reputation. Losing his hunger?
Post by: olaftab on August 06, 2019, 09:07:28 PM
I considered him but Warwickshire need either Stone or Woakes to stay clear of the bottom so I'd let him go back and bring him through after the series as a longer term replacement for Broad. I can see Jimmy retiring soon and then Broad easing out over the next 12-18months.Yes that’s my thought as well. Works for Warks and will work for England long term.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2019, 09:48:46 PM
I just don’t see who Stone would come in for. I imagine he’s next cab off the rank behind Archer, but hopefully he won’t be needed.
For Broad. He's living on his reputation. Losing his hunger?
Really? He bowled excellently in the first innings and batted well.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 06, 2019, 09:57:53 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 06, 2019, 10:00:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2019, 10:19:55 PM
Broad was our best bowler and I don't think lack of hunger will ever be an issue for him, especially against the Aussies. On the rare occasions when Jimmy hasn't been able to play Broad has stepped up magnificently.
Indeed.
Post by: Steve67 on August 06, 2019, 10:32:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2019, 10:43:21 PM
Broad bowled really well in his first spell and took four wickets when England were on top, then he reverts to bowling short or wide and get very ordinary. He's been brilliant for us but he's coming to the end. I take the point about height at Lords and that's why he will play but I honestly think he's on the wane.
I agree completely, I think he's been on the way down for a couple of years but this series isn't the time to abandon him and bring in someone with almost no international experience. South Africa should offer good conditions for someone with the pace of Stone so I'd bring him in on that tour and build the attack around him and Archer.
Post by: Steve67 on August 06, 2019, 10:49:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2019, 11:20:23 PM
Such a shame Mark Wood can't stay fit. I'd be taking him to South Africa too.
I'm at the point of giving up on him ever being the player we hope, he just can't stay fit for long enough.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 07, 2019, 07:44:09 AM
Such a shame Mark Wood can't stay fit. I'd be taking him to South Africa too.
I'm at the point of giving up on him ever being the player we hope, he just can't stay fit for long enough.
He’s our Simon Jones MKII, a wonderful bowler but rarely available for selection.
Post by: paul_e on August 07, 2019, 11:54:21 AM
Post by: Ad@m on August 07, 2019, 12:23:26 PM
I wonder if playing the Aussies really gets to Moeen? His form deserted him on the last tour down under and the same appears to be happening now.I have no doubt that Aussies have given him some horrific sledging but he needs to deal with. If that is affecting his form he needs to work on his mental toughness.
I recall reading a serialisation of his autobiography and he claimed that one of the Aussies racially abused him and called him Osama in the 2015 Ashes. He didn’t name the player but if he’s still in the side now then it could well be affecting him.
Really?!
One of our players gets racially abused, it affects his performance, and your attitude is to basically tell him to "man up"!
I thought we'd moved on from that kind of mentality.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 07, 2019, 12:40:17 PM
https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/ (https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/)
Post by: paul_e on August 07, 2019, 02:30:05 PM
One thing's for sure, Ollie Stone won't be involved at Lord's. Out for two weeks with a back injury apparently.
https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/ (https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/)
I beat you to this by nearly an hour!
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 07, 2019, 03:12:09 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 07, 2019, 03:23:28 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 07, 2019, 03:30:05 PM
Bravo.One thing's for sure, Ollie Stone won't be involved at Lord's. Out for two weeks with a back injury apparently.
https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/ (https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/)
I beat you to this by nearly an hour!
Post by: UK Redsox on August 07, 2019, 03:42:11 PM
From seam bowling being a strength, there's not many left now. If Woakes' lack of use in the 1st Test was down to injury rather that Root's dodgy captaincy, Broad appears to be the only fully fit pace bowler.
This makes even more of a case for Curran to play, on the basis that he's younger and fitter.
Post by: Risso on August 08, 2019, 12:05:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2019, 12:46:32 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 08, 2019, 01:17:52 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 08, 2019, 02:21:05 PM
Indeed. He’s got to play.
Between him and Curran surely. The hierarchy don't like making too many changes so I can see one of those two for Anderson being the only one. I would personally make a few more, but they are a stubborn bunch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2019, 02:24:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 08, 2019, 02:29:29 PM
I wouldn't be adverse to Curran coming in for Denly tbh. Moeen surely cannot play. His confidence is completely shot. To the point that it would actually be unfair on him to keep him in the firing line.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 09, 2019, 11:41:16 AM
Among the books I picked up were signed biographies by Colin Cowdrey, Garfield Sobers, Len Hutton and Tony Lewis
Post by: UK Redsox on August 09, 2019, 03:13:18 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 09, 2019, 03:18:28 PM
Moeen dropped for 2nd Test
They didn't have a choice really. It's probably a good thing for him to be removed from the firing line.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 09, 2019, 05:29:35 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 09, 2019, 11:16:08 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 10, 2019, 12:08:57 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 10, 2019, 09:31:08 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 10, 2019, 09:40:41 AM
Post by: OzVilla on August 11, 2019, 10:24:38 AM
Archer will definitely play I’d have thought. I really like Curran, but we need pace.
And aggression, we need to get in their faces more. For an Ashes Test it seemed pretty placid. It's never like that here so lets not let ths 'respectful Australians' fool you. Thats what they want. If we suddenly flew to Oz they'd be all sledging the fuck out of us I can assure you.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 13, 2019, 06:22:17 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 13, 2019, 06:22:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 13, 2019, 06:27:38 PM
May need a Hanse Cronje style deal to force a result.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 14, 2019, 02:24:46 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB7uY_6XsAAThrJ.jpg)
Post by: UK Redsox on August 14, 2019, 02:32:50 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB7wey3XsAEItQ1.jpg)
Post by: paul_e on August 14, 2019, 02:37:49 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 14, 2019, 02:40:16 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 14, 2019, 02:49:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 14, 2019, 02:55:41 PM
Covers going back on.
Told you they'd be back, as I said though, the radar looks pretty clear now, still going to be cloudy so I'd be happy to bowl first here.
Post by: paul_e on August 14, 2019, 03:25:04 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 14, 2019, 03:50:28 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 14, 2019, 03:51:55 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on August 14, 2019, 03:51:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 14, 2019, 05:04:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 14, 2019, 05:43:48 PM
The afternoon session included an interview with Andrew Strauss and Glenn McGrath, who both lost their wives to cancer and have started charitable foundations in their memory. Very moving stuff.
Post by: Richard E on August 14, 2019, 05:49:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 10:36:52 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2019, 10:54:45 AM
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2019/8/15/32e0bea4-de56-4e15-9ea9-3fcbbde9a827.jpg)
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2019, 10:55:48 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2019, 11:01:40 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2019, 11:09:42 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 11:10:52 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 11:12:37 AM
Oh dear 150 all out here we come.
Feeling optimistic there Paul.
I'm already hoping for more rain.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 11:17:53 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 11:21:22 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 11:30:31 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2019, 11:35:12 AM
Excellent selection from the Aussies. No qualms about changing a winning team. Hazlewood looks a perfect bowler for the Lords slope.
Could be Lord's slope, Lord's' slope or maybe Lord's's slope but definitely not Lords slope ;)
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2019, 11:45:49 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 11:47:30 AM
Poor start to our innings. Players need to dig in and fight. They don't do that enough.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2019, 11:47:43 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 11:48:52 AM
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 11:49:47 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 11:55:06 AM
Post by: Villafirst on August 15, 2019, 11:56:45 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 12:08:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 12:16:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 12:19:20 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 12:34:59 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 12:56:58 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 01:02:23 PM
Most of tomorrow looks like being washed out. Saturday and Sunday look good, but 3 and a half days cricket looks insufficient unless there is a bad collapse.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 01:14:35 PM
It looks like its going to be difficult to force a result on this pitch.
Most of tomorrow looks like being washed out. Saturday and Sunday look good, but 3 and a half days cricket looks insufficient unless there is a bad collapse.
It's Lords, 1st day under blue/patchy sky is usually good for batting (unless the pitch is green which isn't the case here) but if we want a result we need to have 300+ on the board by the end of the day.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 02:03:16 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 02:54:39 PM
Another shit batting performance in progress.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 02:56:29 PM
Buttler going was poor though, not sure what he was trying to do there. The frustrating thing is that he seems to be trying to temper his natural game and it's caused him to have the indecisive 'hanging bat' a few times recently. I'd rather he go playing big shots than something like this one.
Post by: manic-road on August 15, 2019, 02:56:40 PM
Thats poor from Buttler. No need to play at that one.
Another shit batting performance in progress.
Yep a nothing shot, he's lucky to keep his place I think. I always see him as a destructive one day player and not a test cricketer.
Post by: manic-road on August 15, 2019, 02:57:55 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 03:00:13 PM
Thats poor from Buttler. No need to play at that one.
Another shit batting performance in progress.
Yep a nothing shot, he's lucky to keep his place I think. I always see him as a destructive one day player and not a test cricketer.
Problem is theres no batsmen, with the possible exception of Root and Burns who are justifying there place in the team at the moment.
Its a fucking shit show, and that there isn't credible alternatives in the county system reflects very badly on English cricket.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 03:02:33 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 15, 2019, 03:06:57 PM
Thats poor from Buttler. No need to play at that one.
Another shit batting performance in progress.
Yep a nothing shot, he's lucky to keep his place I think. I always see him as a destructive one day player and not a test cricketer.
Problem is theres no batsmen, with the possible exception of Root and Burns who are justifying there place in the team at the moment.
Its a fucking shit show, and that there isn't credible alternatives in the county system reflects very badly on English cricket.
Absolutely, Dom Sibley is averaging about 62 at County level this season and can't think of anybody else who could get a look in. Ah fuck Stokes has just gone.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 15, 2019, 03:09:06 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 15, 2019, 03:09:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 03:12:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 03:12:46 PM
There doesn't seem to even be an acceptance within the coaching staff/selectors that the batting is pathetic. We get bowled out for 85 against Ireland, and Root blames the groundsman. We get bowled out for fuck all in the 2nd innings at Edgbaston on a pitch the vast majority of teams wpuld have comfortably survived and Root says we played some good cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 03:14:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 03:16:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 03:16:52 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2019, 03:32:45 PM
I have a feeling that they will stick with who they have selected for the time being. The batting malaise runs deep and won’t be fixed by chopping and changing the order. The top four has been inconsistent for several years and have constantly been bailed out by the lower middle order. The problem that we now have is that the players occupying the lower middle order positions are so short of form.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 03:47:42 PM
Part of the problem is that there’s just not the batting talent playing red ball championship cricket. Sibley and Zac Crawley are the next in line but are they really any better than what we already have in the side?
I have a feeling that they will stick with who they have selected for the time being. The batting malaise runs deep and won’t be fixed by chopping and changing the order. The top four has been inconsistent for several years and have constantly been bailed out by the lower middle order. The problem that we now have is that the players occupying the lower middle order positions are so short of form.
I agree with a lot of this. The middle order are struggling for form but I think part of the reason for it is that they coming in needing to salvage an acceptable score rather than turning a decent score into a match-winning one and it's messing with them, you can see that the entire unit are struggling to work out how to play.
Where I slightly disagree is that I think Sibley and Crawley are young enough and in good enough form that 1 of them ahead of Denly (and push Roy to 4) makes sense because if they do a decent job we have someone for 10-12 years, Denly gives us 2 before we're looking again. If he was playing well he'd be worth the spot even if it's short term but he's barely doing enough to keep his place and certainly not enough to win us matches.
Post by: olaftab on August 15, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
What on earth has happened to Root? Both as a captain, and as a player?It was a poor decision to make him captain. He needs to be removed from that position for two obvious reasons. He is a very poor captain and his batting is rapidly going to pot.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 04:02:37 PM
We've lost a couple more wickets than I'd have liked but I said we need to be around 200 by tea and we're there or thereabout.
That's another desperate review.
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 04:43:29 PM
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 04:44:25 PM
This partnership is what I mean by going for it, they're still batting sensibly but they're being a bit more adventurous, pushing us along to a competitive score.
We've lost a couple more wickets than I'd have liked but I said we need to be around 200 by tea and we're there or thereabout.
That's another desperate review.
Those 'couple of wickets' are a big difference though.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2019, 04:49:40 PM
I’d certainly play Foakes, he can stick around at the crease and is the best keeper that we have. Curran also should play because he also bats without fear and is a marvellous bowler. I’d also play Leach. These are the sort of players who have grit and determination, something that we seem to lack at the moment.
I’ve a horrible feeling that our fragile batting will mean that we will not compete in this series. The winter tour to New Zealand is not part of the test championship so I think we should go into that with an experimental squad, with a new captain and by then a new coach.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2019, 04:50:32 PM
Denly's the same age now as Ian Bell was when he played his last test. Madness.
He was the next batsman off the rank.
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 04:58:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 05:00:30 PM
This partnership is what I mean by going for it, they're still batting sensibly but they're being a bit more adventurous, pushing us along to a competitive score.
We've lost a couple more wickets than I'd have liked but I said we need to be around 200 by tea and we're there or thereabout.
That's another desperate review.
Those 'couple of wickets' are a big difference though.
Oh I agree, just pointing out that they've scored at about the rate they needed to so this isn't a case of giving wickets away by being too aggressive (which will be the inevitable criticism from many).
Shame that Woakes went, was playing well but I don't think he did much wrong with his shot.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 05:03:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 05:07:22 PM
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 05:12:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 05:14:29 PM
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 05:23:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 05:27:37 PM
I think 250 is about the minimum you'd want to set here and you'd be looking at 300 to be 'happy'.
Not sure why Broad came out before Leach after the Ireland match but he's clearly going to be targeted with short stuff. Tough for Bairstow now, needs to score runs but will be criticised if he goes playing something silly and more time in the middle will do him well. I think he'll go fairly aggressive to anything at the stumps but will leave anything wide.
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 05:29:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 05:34:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 05:38:08 PM
Trouble is Paul, the likely 150 from Smith means that 300 really isn't par on this pitch.
Then the job is to try to bowl him out rather than acting like it's impossible and just trying to leave him stuck up the other end, more bluntly Root needs to grow a pair when we're bowling.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 05:41:10 PM
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 05:52:27 PM
Trouble is Paul, the likely 150 from Smith means that 300 really isn't par on this pitch.
Then the job is to try to bowl him out rather than acting like it's impossible and just trying to leave him stuck up the other end, more bluntly Root needs to grow a pair when we're bowling.
Yep, the commentators on Sky were just taking the piss out of his field settings when he had everybody on the boundary. One of them (Warne?) just said if he was bowling to that field, he'd have thrown the ball to thecaptain and said "go on then skip, you get him out."
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 05:54:21 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 05:54:26 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 15, 2019, 05:55:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
Bairstow gone but I'm ok with him going trying to be aggressive. I'm pretty happy with us getting an hour to bowl at them, hopefully we can get a few tonight.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 06:00:29 PM
On the batters Buttler should be dropped unless he shows a big change in the second innings. I get the impression he’s struggling to re-focus post World Cup and he’s currently a waste of a shirt.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2019, 06:10:23 PM
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 06:12:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 06:18:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 06:21:17 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2019, 06:22:48 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 15, 2019, 06:23:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 06:23:56 PM
What a peach of a ball from Broad to get Warner!
Great delivery, I must've paused at some point because I'm clearly 30 seconds behind you.
Post by: Risso on August 15, 2019, 06:24:41 PM
Him and Archer look menacing to say the least.
Post by: manic-road on August 15, 2019, 06:27:32 PM
Beauty from Broad.
Him and Archer look menacing to say the least.
Yes Broad is bowling some beauties in this opening spell.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 06:27:50 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 06:29:48 PM
Beauty from Broad.
Him and Archer look menacing to say the least.
Archer has Bancroft on toast here, if he doesn't get him tonight I'd be amazed.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2019, 06:32:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 06:33:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 06:39:26 PM
Archer needs to make the batsmen play more shots, he’s bowling well and is getting plenty of shape but I’d rather see him forcing the batsmen to play a shot and bring the slips into play.
I'd like to see him throw the odd off-stump yorker in there as well as the bouncer. His pace is so deceptive that I can see him catching a lot of people out with it, especially if he can make it his 'effort' ball at 94-95mph.
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 06:43:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 15, 2019, 07:18:04 PM
Disappointing not to get more tonight but plenty there. Need to hit them hard tomorrow.
I think we were pretty unlucky not to get another, all 3 bowled very well.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2019, 07:20:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 15, 2019, 09:12:46 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 15, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
What seems daft, is that the plan to make up the time lost is to extend play to 7pm rather than starting the day early. Why can't they be flexible enough to look at the forecast and decide to start play at 10:30am?
Post by: Steve67 on August 15, 2019, 10:29:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 15, 2019, 11:03:03 PM
Forecast suggests there might be about an hours play tomorrow morning, with the rest of the day a likely washout.Stop being sensible. Marylebone Cricket Club members would not like that. It interferes with their leisurely breakfast.
What seems daft, is that the plan to make up the time lost is to extend play to 7pm rather than starting the day early. Why can't they be flexible enough to look at the forecast and decide to start play at 10:30am?
Post by: tomd2103 on August 16, 2019, 12:08:37 AM
Rain might be our best friend in this test. Wash this one out and then win a couple of the last three to win back those ashes. Yup, looking unlikely as it currently stands. We need changes to the batting line up but I don't know who we bring in.
Might be a bit biased as he plays for Warwickshire, but I would look at bringing Sibley in to open in the next test and drop Roy down the order. Root at 3 isn't working and we need him to score runs, so I would probably swap him and Denly in the second innings of this test.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 16, 2019, 07:22:14 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2019, 11:18:43 AM
Have Dukes just fucked up the batch? They say its the same specification as last years balls, which went all over the place.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2019, 11:27:35 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2019, 11:44:46 AM
I know thats umpires call so stays as out, but i'd be pretty annoyed to have that given as a batsman.
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2019, 11:45:13 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2019, 11:46:33 AM
This is more like it.
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2019, 11:51:13 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2019, 11:55:44 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2019, 12:15:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2019, 12:33:15 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2019, 12:53:55 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2019, 12:59:09 PM
Post by: Risso on August 16, 2019, 01:42:58 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 16, 2019, 02:41:25 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 16, 2019, 03:04:14 PM
Some more poor decisions from the umpires. Is it just the DRS making them look worse, or are they just not as focussed these days because they know the review system is there?Bit of both really. I think they are more prepared to make a decision knowing it can be corrected however I think Umpires are now better than say 30 years ago. They are better trained and officiate a lot more. Having said that I think the only area that has improved is runouts and stumpings by DRS.
Post by: olaftab on August 16, 2019, 03:18:30 PM
That's probably gonna be it for the day.Yes it’s going to get worse as afternoon progresses. Typical Aussies get all the luck☹️
Post by: Risso on August 16, 2019, 03:43:23 PM
Some more poor decisions from the umpires. Is it just the DRS making them look worse, or are they just not as focussed these days because they know the review system is there?Bit of both really. I think they are more prepared to make a decision knowing it can be corrected however I think Umpires are now better than say 30 years ago. They are better trained and officiate a lot more. Having said that I think the only area that has improved is runouts and stumpings by DRS.
That LBW decision earlier was dreadful. It was one of the most obviously out things I've ever seen.
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2019, 03:50:09 PM
Some more poor decisions from the umpires. Is it just the DRS making them look worse, or are they just not as focussed these days because they know the review system is there?Bit of both really. I think they are more prepared to make a decision knowing it can be corrected however I think Umpires are now better than say 30 years ago. They are better trained and officiate a lot more. Having said that I think the only area that has improved is runouts and stumpings by DRS.
That LBW decision earlier was dreadful. It was one of the most obviously out things I've ever seen.
As they said on sky you could argue that there was a 2nd noise so he might have thought there was a tiny inside edge. I agree it did look a simple one though.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 16, 2019, 04:05:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2019, 06:42:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2019, 11:13:47 PM
What he needs to work on is bowling more wicket-taking deliveries (Anderson had a similar problem when he came through), in English conditions that means being a bit fuller and getting people driving him where the seam movement will lead to edges on both sides of the bat. He also needs to be a bit bolder in bowling over the wicket to lefties, he's been very quick to change sides so far but because he hugs the stumps he can bowl almost wicket-to-wicket against them.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2019, 11:20:47 PM
With batsmen naturally on the defence with Archer difficult to score off, they will be forced into taking more risk against other bowlers.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 17, 2019, 12:06:50 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 17, 2019, 12:46:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 17, 2019, 01:28:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 17, 2019, 02:38:17 PM
Joking of course, looks a nasty one.
Post by: Steve67 on August 17, 2019, 02:44:07 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 17, 2019, 02:46:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 17, 2019, 05:19:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 17, 2019, 05:43:44 PM
Was a vicious ball and Smith played it badly. Hope he's okay, looked awful on slo-mo.
He’s gone to hospital for an X-ray on his arm after he was hit by another Archer thunderbolt.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 17, 2019, 06:13:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 17, 2019, 06:21:51 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 17, 2019, 06:30:24 PM
I do hope there is nothing serious as o wouldn’t want him to miss the rest of the series🙊🤞Was a vicious ball and Smith played it badly. Hope he's okay, looked awful on slo-mo.
He’s gone to hospital for an X-ray on his arm after he was hit by another Archer thunderbolt.
Post by: olaftab on August 17, 2019, 06:31:32 PM
Root’s lack of form is becoming a real problem. He’s looking poor.Whatever happens in this test match he must be freed from the captaincy burden for the next 3.
Post by: manic-road on August 17, 2019, 07:01:14 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 17, 2019, 08:04:02 PM
We look so disjointed at times and seem to have lost focus. The running between the wickets is poor and as always we lose wickets in clusters. As thrilling as the World Cup win was several of our players look mentally shot and are stuck in white ball mode. Roy, Root, Buttler, Stokes and Bairstow look like walking wickets. It’s hardly surprising when you consider how little red ball cricket they’ve played recently.
However Archer has them rattled and if one of our batsmen can find some form who knows what will happen?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 17, 2019, 08:25:55 PM
I can see us collapsing in a heap in the morning, leaving the Aussies under 200 to chase on a good batting pitch. Need people to stand up tomorrow in waya they rarely do.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 17, 2019, 09:53:09 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on August 17, 2019, 10:00:42 PM
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2019, 09:29:56 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 10:10:42 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 18, 2019, 12:11:56 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 18, 2019, 12:31:00 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 01:01:36 PM
Smith can't bat for them, so we have to set them a target. They are putting Labuschange or whatsisname in as a replacement from Smith. Gotta go for it England, put them under some pressure with Archer steaming in to scare the shit out of them. Need a lead of 220 ish I reckon.
Yes another 100 runs then declare and bowl at them for a session and a half. It’s a big ask from this batting line up though.
Smith’s injury could be series defining, he may play at Headingley, who knows? But how he reacts to another Archer spell will be fascinating. Such a pity Wood or Stone are unfit, two 90 mile an hour bowlers operating in tandem would really ramp up the pressure on them.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 18, 2019, 01:32:57 PM
I think going forward, this should be handled by independent doctors rather than team doctors.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 01:38:01 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 18, 2019, 01:38:38 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 18, 2019, 02:03:56 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 18, 2019, 02:12:23 PM
I quite like the idea of a replacement player for concussion. The issue here is that Smith came back out to bat, so would have passed all the required tests. I don't think after that they should be allowed to call up the replacement.
I think going forward, this should be handled by independent doctors rather than team doctors.
I think it's fair enough in this case, they said he was deemed okay at the time but the woke up feeling dizzy this morning.
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2019, 03:14:55 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 03:27:04 PM
The Aussies look a pretty dispirited bunch at the moment, they’d have started today knowing that a couple of early wickets would make them likely winners. As it stands a draw is the most likely result but England have a small chance against their fragile line up minus Smith.
After the doom and gloom post Edgbaston the series is wide open again.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 03:27:53 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 18, 2019, 03:28:25 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 18, 2019, 03:33:06 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 18, 2019, 03:43:24 PM
Think this pitch is just too flat, but we've got a slim chance if the Aussies have a meltdown.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 04:08:34 PM
Labuschagne just took an evil bouncer from Archer straight into the grill of his helmet.
Post by: thick_mike on August 18, 2019, 04:10:35 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 18, 2019, 04:14:50 PM
Post by: cheltenhamlion on August 18, 2019, 04:31:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2019, 04:41:53 PM
Post by: LeeB on August 18, 2019, 04:42:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 18, 2019, 04:45:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 04:51:05 PM
Post by: Risso on August 18, 2019, 05:04:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 05:05:40 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 18, 2019, 05:19:21 PM
I don't like a concussion sub and certainly not when the fucker came out to bat again. If you are retired hurt, you are retired hurt. That has always been the case and we shouldn't swap now.
I don't agree, just because something has always been the case doesn't mean it needs to remain such. We wouldn't have substitutes in football on that basis. Sport, generally, is taking concussion far more seriously than it used to, and that can only be a good thing in terms of preventing problems in later life as happened to Jeff Astle, among others, and about a million American footballers.
He felt he was okay to bat but now feels he should be looked at. You shouldn't take any chances with a head injury. It's not like they've gained any advantage anyway, losing their best batsman.
Post by: olaftab on August 18, 2019, 05:29:22 PM
I don’t think we can win, but we can shift the momentum for the next game. Stokes’ hundred was excellent.Exactly. The very positive takes are Stokes and Archer. Those two in top form are enought to defeat the Aussies in the 3rd Test providing....
providing Smith is sent home.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 05:54:52 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 18, 2019, 05:56:37 PM
Football needs to bring in temporary substitutions to allow for head injury assessments. This shouldn’t even need any discussion, it should just be brought in immediately
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 05:56:47 PM
I don't like a concussion sub and certainly not when the fucker came out to bat again. If you are retired hurt, you are retired hurt. That has always been the case and we shouldn't swap now.
I don't agree, just because something has always been the case doesn't mean it needs to remain such. We wouldn't have substitutes in football on that basis. Sport, generally, is taking concussion far more seriously than it used to, and that can only be a good thing in terms of preventing problems in later life as happened to Jeff Astle, among others, and about a million American footballers.
He felt he was okay to bat but now feels he should be looked at. You shouldn't take any chances with a head injury. It's not like they've gained any advantage anyway, losing their best batsman.
100% agree. He should never have been coming out again.
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2019, 06:01:51 PM
I don’t think we can win, but we can shift the momentum for the next game. Stokes’ hundred was excellent.Exactly. The very positive takes are Stokes and Archer. Those two in top form are enought to defeat the Aussies in the 3rd Test providing....
providing Smith is sent home.
Not massive scores but I'd say Buttler and Bairstow put in very important knocks as well. Drop Denly, push Roy and Root down 1 and bring Sibley in and I think we're looking in much better shape now. It's a touch harsh on Denly who hasn't completely bombed but Root needs to go back to 4 and Denly isn't good enough for the top 4. If Roy struggles at Headingley I'd bring Crawley in at 3 and then, going forward, it'd be 2 from 3 of Roy, Buttler and Bairstow. We need to find a way to get a top 3 that are seeing off the new ball consistently and if that means being a bit ruthless then so be it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 06:09:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 06:21:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 06:22:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 06:32:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 06:39:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2019, 07:00:01 PM
How long before they shake hands and call it a draw? There’s nothing happening really.
Until those 2 wickets I'd have said at 7pm but now I'd keep going, break this pair and we're into the bowlers. Cummins and Siddle are decent but can be pressured, I wouldn't fancy Lyon of Hazlewood to last long with us surrounding the bat and bowlers giving it everything.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 18, 2019, 07:26:13 PM
Leach and Archer have made a huge difference to the attack, and if we can find some runs from somewhere we still have a good chance in the series.
Post by: Damo70 on August 18, 2019, 07:38:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 07:40:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2019, 07:52:41 PM
Weather disruptions in cricket annoy me. Build some roofs ;)
God no, almost everything good about English cricket requires cloud cover, we'd end up about 7th or 8th in the world if we played 'inside' (I know you were joking).
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 18, 2019, 08:11:16 PM
I do think that, one day, someone will build a cricket ground with a roof.
Post by: olaftab on August 18, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 18, 2019, 09:29:23 PM
I think that momentum has swung firmly back in our favour. Archer has them rattled and even Smith will be questioning how he can deal with him. Let’s hope he stays fit.
I just wish Ollie Stone and Mark Wood could stay fit. Those three would be fantastic to watch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2019, 09:36:21 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 09:37:04 PM
Then you consider a ground like Edgbaston where the stands are various heights, the top level in the press box is the highest point at the ground, how would a roof work there? It’s not Wimbledon!
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 18, 2019, 09:43:03 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 09:44:43 PM
I do think Archer is a different level though. It’s virtually impossible to discern whether he’s going to bowl full or short. It must be a nightmare to face.
Thankfully our fragile batsmen don’t have to face him!
He reminds me of Michael Holding, there’s nothing in his run up, his action is smooth and easy yet he delivers these balls which cause mayhem. Unless he gets seduced by the financial rewards of the various T20 leagues, we will have a bowler in our team who will wreck havoc.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 18, 2019, 09:48:37 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 09:51:04 PM
Oh I don't reckon it'll be easy. But someone will build one. Maybe when cricket gets in the Olympics.
They tried it at the Millennium Stadium. There was an invitation T20 game just after the 2005 Ashes. The ball struck the roof several times.
Also, given that we lose more days to rain than most other test playing countries, I can’t see visiting test teams agreeing to play under a roof either. It would increase our home advantage even more.
Post by: paul_e on August 18, 2019, 09:58:36 PM
I do think Archer is a different level though. It’s virtually impossible to discern whether he’s going to bowl full or short. It must be a nightmare to face.
His pace is the biggest problem but not just because he's so quick, it's because he's a lot quicker than he looks like he should be. He hits people a lot because they just can't get the timing right (it's also why he's so hard to score off in red ball cricket).
earlier in the test Holding (I think) was talking about it, he adds a few mph of pace by flicking his wrist in the delivery, it also means he can get extra bounce but it's really hard to spot because it's so natural to him that he has no 'tell'.
I think I called him as a future England player pretty early on here and it was on the back of seeing about 20 deliveries in the big bash, it was just so obvious that he was special and I'm just glad that England have realised that and fast-tracked him in. I honestly think he'll be the number 1 bowler in the world, across all 3 formats, within 2 years.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 18, 2019, 10:05:34 PM
I do think Archer is a different level though. It’s virtually impossible to discern whether he’s going to bowl full or short. It must be a nightmare to face.
His pace is the biggest problem but not just because he's so quick, it's because he's a lot quicker than he looks like he should be. He hits people a lot because they just can't get the timing right (it's also why he's so hard to score off in red ball cricket).
earlier in the test Holding (I think) was talking about it, he adds a few mph of pace by flicking his wrist in the delivery, it also means he can get extra bounce but it's really hard to spot because it's so natural to him that he has no 'tell'.
I think I called him as a future England player pretty early on here and it was on the back of seeing about 20 deliveries in the big bash, it was just so obvious that he was special and I'm just glad that England have realised that and fast-tracked him in. I honestly think he'll be the number 1 bowler in the world, across all 3 formats, within 2 years.
Thank fuck he’s ours!
Post by: UK Redsox on August 18, 2019, 11:48:04 PM
I do hope not. Covering the Wicket is a step too far for me.
Thanks Geoffrey ;)
Post by: manic-road on August 19, 2019, 06:57:14 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 19, 2019, 11:36:08 AM
In better news, Jimmy playing for Lancashire 2nd 11 tomorrow. Still a chance he may be fit for the last 2 tests.
Post by: Risso on August 19, 2019, 11:44:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 19, 2019, 05:28:42 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 19, 2019, 05:40:13 PM
Root needs to be careful he doesn’t over bowl Jof. He had a massive workload in that game, and Woakes was underused.
It was fair enough in the 2nd innings. He was the most dangerous seamer by a distance.
The thing with Archer is that his run up and action seem to take very little out of him. It looks as though its very easy for him to generate pace. Case in point being his spell where he hit Smith being his 5th spell of the innings and his fastest.
Obviously don't want to overdo it, but Archer can easily bowl 6/7/8 over spells.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 19, 2019, 05:43:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 19, 2019, 06:06:15 PM
Root needs to be careful he doesn’t over bowl Jof. He had a massive workload in that game, and Woakes was underused.
It was fair enough in the 2nd innings. He was the most dangerous seamer by a distance.
The thing with Archer is that his run up and action seem to take very little out of him. It looks as though its very easy for him to generate pace. Case in point being his spell where he hit Smith being his 5th spell of the innings and his fastest.
Obviously don't want to overdo it, but Archer can easily bowl 6/7/8 over spells.
Maybe he can, but doesn’t necessarily mean he should. I think regardless of how easy he makes it look it would take a toll, at the start of his last spell he started looking a little stiff.
Also we don’t want to get into a position where basically there’s a perception that our only hope is Jof. That’ll erode the confidence of the other bowlers.
With all that said though, I love him and think he’s brilliant and an absolute star. They’ve just got to make sure they manage him right.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 20, 2019, 10:42:06 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 20, 2019, 11:19:47 AM
Smith confirmed out for next match.
Has the Aussie Doctor explained why he was allowed back out to bat in the first innings ?
Post by: olaftab on August 20, 2019, 11:34:23 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 20, 2019, 11:36:30 AM
Vaughan said on TMS yesterday that he’d heard on the grapevine that Woakes is carrying an injury. Again.I hope not because despite Jofra he is still the best bowling hope to win the Ashes.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2019, 04:29:52 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 20, 2019, 05:20:07 PM
Yes the Doctor has to take some blame here. Putting aside the rivalry and benefit of Smith missing the next Test match I was alarmed listening to Smith describing how he felt the nest morning when he woke up. OK he is an outstanding sportsman but still relatively naive but enthusiastic young man and requires protection from those around him. The experienced management and medical staff didn't do their job right in letting him go out again.
When he came out to bat again you could see he was on another planet.
Oh. and the booing when he got out was very poor form for a brave man.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 20, 2019, 06:36:02 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 20, 2019, 07:06:19 PM
Post by: Rory on August 20, 2019, 08:51:52 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 20, 2019, 09:23:42 PM
Because Smith passed the concussion tests. Apparently in some cases the symptoms don't manifest until some time after the incident, which is presumably why Smith felt like shit the following morning rather than at the time.Smith confirmed out for next match.
Has the Aussie Doctor explained why he was allowed back out to bat in the first innings ?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 20, 2019, 09:26:42 PM
Don’t know about that, Broad has been excellent.Agreed. Woakes has been slightly below par but Broad has been excellent. It seems Woakes isn't fully fit and the batch of balls made for this series hasn't swung as much as expected, both of which have reduced his effectiveness. Still very handy with the bat but I can see why they might go with Curran instead for the next Test.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 21, 2019, 01:44:32 AM
I'd also.say the 2 pitches haven't been anywhere near as green as Englad would have wanted. Its almost like we are trying too hard to make our hosts feel welcome.
Post by: Villafirst on August 21, 2019, 07:10:49 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 21, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
Its an interesting point about the balls. They haven't swung even under floodlights. That can't have been what the English set up expected after deciding to use the same specification as the 2018 balls that swung round corners.
I'd also.say the 2 pitches haven't been anywhere near as green as Englad would have wanted. Its almost like we are trying too hard to make our hosts feel welcome.
I agree about the pitches, at Lords and Edgbaston we served up pitches that were so untypical of those grounds. Yes it was very wet in the few days before the Edgbaston test but the pitch was so dry and lifeless. At Lords I don’t recall there ever having been a pitch with such variable bounce. There’s a reason why Woakes is such an effective bowler at Lords and it’s the pitches.
Now it’s either a groundsman World Cup hangover or more likely the ECB have instructed groundsmen to prepare pitches that last 5 days because they need the revenue.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 21, 2019, 09:26:32 AM
Because Smith passed the concussion tests. Apparently in some cases the symptoms don't manifest until some time after the incident, which is presumably why Smith felt like shit the following morning rather than at the time.Smith confirmed out for next match.
Has the Aussie Doctor explained why he was allowed back out to bat in the first innings ?
Medical people know that concussion symptoms are often delayed and should act accordingly. As other have said, Smith wasn't himself when he went back out.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 21, 2019, 10:26:12 AM
I totally agree he wasn't himself but there seems very little point in having standard tests if you're going to ignore the results when you get them. I read yesterday that Smith passed the tests three times before he went back out.Because Smith passed the concussion tests. Apparently in some cases the symptoms don't manifest until some time after the incident, which is presumably why Smith felt like shit the following morning rather than at the time.Smith confirmed out for next match.
Has the Aussie Doctor explained why he was allowed back out to bat in the first innings ?
Medical people know that concussion symptoms are often delayed and should act accordingly. As other have said, Smith wasn't himself when he went back out.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 10:28:17 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2019, 10:38:43 AM
Raining at Headingley, forecast is that the rain will clear about 11am. I imagine that the start will be delayed but here’s no official announcement yet.
No toss yet. I assume that they'll toss when the ground staff say that play can start in 30 mins.
I guess it depends on how much wicket prep was left to do when the covers went on
EDIT - Well, I got that wrong. Toss at 11:05 and start at 11:20
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2019, 10:41:22 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2019, 11:01:54 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2019, 12:10:21 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 12:18:19 PM
It’s raining very close to Headingley according to Aggers.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 22, 2019, 12:19:41 PM
Post by: Risso on August 22, 2019, 12:27:10 PM
Need at least three wickets by lunch.
Well, there's the first. Beauty from Archer.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2019, 12:27:45 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 22, 2019, 12:29:08 PM
Need at least three wickets by lunch.
Well, there's the first. Beauty from Archer.
Rain seems to have put paid to that plan.
Post by: Risso on August 22, 2019, 12:57:24 PM
Post by: Monty on August 22, 2019, 02:43:15 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 22, 2019, 04:57:24 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on August 22, 2019, 05:05:37 PM
I hope it's not the case this time round but I'm starting to get that feeling.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 22, 2019, 05:11:19 PM
I don't think there is any sport which treats its supporters with such disdain as cricket.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 22, 2019, 05:13:01 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 05:17:39 PM
Its looking dangerous at the moment. Woakes and Stokes have bowled poorly and Root is waiting far too long to take them out the attack.
I’d have leach bowling at one end and rotate Archer and Broad at the other.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 22, 2019, 05:19:39 PM
There isn't a lot you can do about rain, but the ridiculous decision to go off for "bad light" has swung this game Australia's way.
I don't think there is any sport which treats its supporters with such disdain as cricket.
I agree with your point about the bad light, but what has given Australia the advantage is how poorly Woakes and Stokes are bowling.
Woakes has gone at over a run a ball yet Root has taken him out of the attack? That's awful captaincy
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 22, 2019, 05:20:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 22, 2019, 05:21:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 05:22:19 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 22, 2019, 05:24:14 PM
Post by: Risso on August 22, 2019, 05:26:31 PM
There isn't a lot you can do about rain, but the ridiculous decision to go off for "bad light" has swung this game Australia's way.
I don't think there is any sport which treats its supporters with such disdain as cricket.
I agree with your point about the bad light, but what has given Australia the advantage is how poorly Woakes and Stokes are bowling.
Woakes has gone at over a run a ball yet Root has taken him out of the attack? That's awful captaincy
Root needs replacing as captain, pronto. His head's gone completely. Needs to concentrate on his batting. I'd give it to either Bairstow or Stokes.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 22, 2019, 05:29:15 PM
Root needs replacing as captain, pronto. His head's gone completely. Needs to concentrate on his batting. I'd give it to either Bairstow or Stokes.Not Bairstow. He's far too excitable and emotional. Stokes - on the field at least - is remarkably level-headed. Buttler is probably the best captain in the side but not sure of his place.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 05:37:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2019, 05:37:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2019, 05:39:46 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 05:45:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2019, 05:49:40 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 22, 2019, 05:50:38 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 05:53:02 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 22, 2019, 05:53:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 05:58:15 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 22, 2019, 06:07:35 PM
Post by: Risso on August 22, 2019, 06:18:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 07:00:31 PM
Fantastic turn around in the last hour or so, 136-2 to 173-7 in about 14 overs.
Post by: Risso on August 22, 2019, 07:00:33 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 07:21:36 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 07:24:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2019, 07:34:30 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 22, 2019, 07:34:56 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 22, 2019, 07:41:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2019, 07:43:13 PM
Aus have a hell of a bowling attack, we’re going to need to bat well.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2019, 08:20:01 PM
Archer shows how having pace in your team is very helpful in getting rid of the tail quickly. He was outstanding today. If / when Anderson gets himself fit, Woakes could be in trouble.
It was interesting today it looked like Jof wasn’t going full gun in terms of pace, albeit still touching 90, but focussing on using the conditions. That shows immense skill and awareness.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2019, 08:20:22 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 22, 2019, 08:31:23 PM
I’m cautious until we’ve had a bat but if the sun shines then Headingley can be a batsman’s paradise so we need to capitalise.
Post by: LeeB on August 22, 2019, 08:58:44 PM
Archer shows how having pace in your team is very helpful in getting rid of the tail quickly. He was outstanding today. If / when Anderson gets himself fit, Woakes could be in trouble.
It was interesting today it looked like Jof wasn’t going full gun in terms of pace, albeit still touching 90, but focussing on using the conditions. That shows immense skill and awareness.
He's a one-man full bowling attack. He's walked into the side and he's already the best and most important player.
Post by: Steve67 on August 22, 2019, 09:01:45 PM
Post by: garyshawsknee on August 22, 2019, 09:07:44 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 22, 2019, 10:14:02 PM
Post by: Damo70 on August 22, 2019, 10:17:04 PM
Archer shows how having pace in your team is very helpful in getting rid of the tail quickly. He was outstanding today. If / when Anderson gets himself fit, Woakes could be in trouble.
It was interesting today it looked like Jof wasn’t going full gun in terms of pace, albeit still touching 90, but focussing on using the conditions. That shows immense skill and awareness.
He's a one-man full bowling attack. He's walked into the side and he's already the best and most important player.
He has impressed the hell out of me.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 22, 2019, 10:35:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 22, 2019, 11:11:30 PM
Aus have a hell of a bowling attack, we’re going to need to bat well.I think they have an average bowling attack. It's more a worry that England's top 5 out of 6 batsman are poor.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 07:32:06 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 07:42:34 AM
Really? Cummins in the number 1 bowler in the world, Hazlewood is excellent and Pattinson would be one of the best if he stayed fit. Then you have Lyon who has over 300 test wickets. I’d say that’s pretty good.
I agree, their attack is as good as ours. In fact their bowling unit is slightly better because Nathan Lyon is a much better spinner than anything we’ve got.
Post by: Villafirst on August 23, 2019, 08:05:28 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 10:50:41 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 10:56:10 AM
Be batting at the end of the day England.
I think today is the pivotal day in the series. If we bat well then we should win the test and I expect us to go on and win the series. If we bat poorly and let them back into the game then the series and the Ashes will be gone.
Post by: olaftab on August 23, 2019, 11:08:10 AM
Really? Cummins in the number 1 bowler in the world, Hazlewood is excellent and Pattinson would be one of the best if he stayed fit. Then you have Lyon who has over 300 test wickets. I’d say that’s pretty good.We will have to remain disagreed on this.
They are all ok but no where near the class of bowling attacks from the past. Without going too far back there is no one like Lee, Anderson, Jones (Simon), McGrath, Wasim, Muralitharan, Warne , Swann to mention but a few. Accumulation of wickets in this era of over cricket is not a sign of great bowling.
Post by: Nev on August 23, 2019, 11:11:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 11:20:43 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 11:22:32 AM
It was definitely worth a try, but its clear that if he's going to be in the test team it should be lower down the order.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 11:22:55 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 11:24:39 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 11:25:24 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 11:25:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 11:26:07 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 23, 2019, 11:26:07 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 11:26:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 11:27:16 AM
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 11:27:26 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 11:28:06 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 11:28:24 AM
This is a golden opportunity with the weather like this, and we are doing our best to blow it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 11:29:34 AM
If England go on to lose this series, which is still a big if, with a new coach coming in we may see Root step down as skipper. He just hasn't seemed the same batsman since he took the job on. I don't think I'd put him up there with Smith, Kohli and Williamson on current form.
He’s nowhere near those 3.
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 11:30:31 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 11:30:48 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 11:30:54 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 23, 2019, 11:33:30 AM
That was a perfect line to bowl to Root early in his innings.It was a good ball but just look at Root he's got himself into a very poor position to do anything about it. This is not the batting we expected from one of the best in the world................... that he was.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 11:35:29 AM
If England go on to lose this series, which is still a big if, with a new coach coming in we may see Root step down as skipper. He just hasn't seemed the same batsman since he took the job on. I don't think I'd put him up there with Smith, Kohli and Williamson on current form.
I don't think he ever really has been. I think technique and talent wise he is and has been up there, but his poor conversion rate stopped him from being in that bracket.
He's had a couple of good balls in this series, but he isn't moving his feet and theres no conviction in his play.
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 11:36:35 AM
Smith and Root were on a par 2 years ago, they’re not even in the same postcode now.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 11:40:21 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 11:45:07 AM
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 11:49:12 AM
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 11:53:53 AM
Root’s form disappeared half way through the World Cup and he hasn’t got it back yet.
It a lot longer than that. Root is averaging just 33 in his last 31 test innings.
And another shit shot from a player totally out of his depth. This time it’s Burns.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 11:55:15 AM
Roy, Burns, Denly should be no where near any England team and on recent form nor should Root. The fact that that’s the current top 4 is a bit embarrassing.Burns is England's top run scorer this series and is averaging nearly 60. Only Stokes has a higher average.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 11:55:45 AM
But that was a bit shit.Roy, Burns, Denly should be no where near any England team and on recent form nor should Root. The fact that that’s the current top 4 is a bit embarrassing.Burns is England's top run scorer this series and is averaging nearly 60. Only Stokes has a higher average.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 11:55:54 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2019, 11:56:56 AM
Five minutes short of the first hour, twenty for three. 🤨
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 11:57:27 AM
Roy, Burns, Denly should be no where near any England team and on recent form nor should Root. The fact that that’s the current top 4 is a bit embarrassing.Burns is England's top run scorer this series and is averaging nearly 60. Only Stokes has a higher average.
He’s shit. Poor technique, doesn’t like the short stuff and good bowlers will get him every time.
Post by: Dr Butler on August 23, 2019, 11:59:56 AM
once again need Stokes, Bairstow, Woakes, Buttler to dig us out of the fucking big hole we seem to dig for ourselves.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 12:02:26 PM
The fact remains that White ball cricket means that our batsmen no longer have the strong technique required to build a patient innings at test level.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 12:04:02 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 12:06:22 PM
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2019, 12:07:44 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 12:10:26 PM
Having a coach who doesn't give a single fuck about Test Cricket probably doesn't help either.
That was the instructions from above though wasn’t it? We need a more balanced approach, test cricket is still the ultimate form of the game.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2019, 12:16:41 PM
Post by: thick_mike on August 23, 2019, 12:17:08 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2019, 12:17:16 PM
One of the worst shots I’ve seen in a long time
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2019, 12:17:40 PM
What a clusterfuck.
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 12:20:15 PM
Post by: Nev on August 23, 2019, 12:22:25 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 12:27:36 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 12:28:56 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 23, 2019, 12:31:40 PM
Root got a good ball but failed to move his feet. The other 3 wickets were desperately poor batting.So 4 wickets were desperately poor batting.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 12:46:32 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 12:46:37 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 23, 2019, 12:47:17 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 12:47:49 PM
Post by: luke:lamf on August 23, 2019, 12:49:53 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 12:52:34 PM
Been an absolute disgrace.
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 12:52:39 PM
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 12:53:32 PM
This has been absolutely appalling today, as bad a performance as I can ever recall and that for an England team is quite some achievement.
You can talk all you like about bowlers bowling well but today they’ve put it there, built pressure and we’ve had no answer, just totally folded.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 12:57:07 PM
If Crawley, Sibley, Pope etc aren't upgrades on this then they themselves should be fucking embarrassed.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 01:04:26 PM
Post by: TonyD on August 23, 2019, 01:06:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 01:08:46 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 01:11:25 PM
Post by: TonyD on August 23, 2019, 01:13:47 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 23, 2019, 01:17:38 PM
Post by: TonyD on August 23, 2019, 01:19:49 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 23, 2019, 01:22:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 01:23:32 PM
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2019, 01:30:42 PM
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2019, 01:32:40 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/49449465
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 01:36:09 PM
So is the pitch a nightmare to bat on, or are we just playing terribly? Can't watch it as I'm at work.Playing terribly against some disciplined bowling and fielding. Some of the shot selection beggars belief.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 01:39:12 PM
So is the pitch a nightmare to bat on, or are we just playing terribly? Can't watch it as I'm at work.
Been a little seam, as you would expect with a new ball, but all in all, very good batting conditions.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 01:46:14 PM
Post by: OzVilla on August 23, 2019, 01:46:20 PM
They’ve not done anything special, bowled well and showed patience but nothing out of the ordinary.
We have players that should be no where near Test Cricket playing and it’s embarrassing. Technically, mentally inept at this level. For some it’s temporary but at least 3 are just way out of their depth imo.
Post by: Ad@m on August 23, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
So is the pitch a nightmare to bat on, or are we just playing terribly? Can't watch it as I'm at work.Playing terribly against some disciplined bowling and fielding. Some of the shot selection beggars belief.
It's down to the focus we've had on limited overs cricket over the past few years.
I get it - it's led to us winning the World Cup - but our batsmen now seem to have absolutely no idea how to play Test cricket. Chasing wide balls on the morning of the 2nd day is just stupid batting. The worry as well is it seems to be rubbing off on Root, who we know can play Test cricket.
Hopefully this series will be a turning point where we go back to the basics of what Test cricket actually is.
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 01:49:54 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 01:53:32 PM
The ashes lost in a session and an over.
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 01:56:29 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 01:56:42 PM
Hopefully this series will be a turning point where we go back to the basics of what Test cricket actually is.Until the ECB decides to put the County Championship front and centre in the schedule things won't change. And the ECB won't do that.
Post by: Monty on August 23, 2019, 01:57:09 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 01:59:14 PM
Hopefully this series will be a turning point where we go back to the basics of what Test cricket actually is.Until the ECB decides to put the County Championship front and centre in the schedule things won't change. And the ECB won't do that.
Yep, hence this ridiculous 100 competition next season.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 01:59:43 PM
This is an astonishing shitshow. Pope, Curran and Foakes must come in, and Root must be replaced as captain.What if Jimmy's fit?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 02:00:48 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 02:03:00 PM
This is day 2. Hard to see Leach making much impact in their second innings.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 23, 2019, 02:03:27 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 02:03:52 PM
There has to be a statement made that this sort of gutless effort is unacceptable.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 02:04:37 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 02:05:30 PM
Drop Buttler, absolute joke.
Suited to limited over games, certainly not test cricket.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 02:05:40 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 02:07:47 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 02:07:50 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 02:08:28 PM
This is a disgrace. I’d genuinely look at dropping half the batsmen.
The other half don't deserve their place either.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 02:09:00 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 02:10:45 PM
Post by: Rory on August 23, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 02:14:17 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 02:16:14 PM
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2019, 02:17:18 PM
An embarrassing performance
Post by: Villa Lew on August 23, 2019, 02:18:03 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2019, 02:18:26 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 02:19:26 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on August 23, 2019, 02:20:37 PM
Post by: Monty on August 23, 2019, 02:21:13 PM
This is an astonishing shitshow. Pope, Curran and Foakes must come in, and Root must be replaced as captain.What if Jimmy's fit?
Frankly I'd have him in over half the batsmen right now.
Post by: Rory on August 23, 2019, 02:21:43 PM
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
They do, and that irritates me too. No need to throw people under the bus or become defeatist, but when there is a problem I like to hear that it is recognised by the coach and captain. And 3 or 4 double figure first innings totals in two years suggests a whopping problem.
Post by: Risso on August 23, 2019, 02:21:55 PM
Blimey, if Warner’s going to waft like that, maybe there is hope
I don't think we'd get their total if we were batting again now.
The very least that has to happen is Root being dropped as captain. He needs to go away and join Moeen Ali in thinking about what he's done.
Post by: Rory on August 23, 2019, 02:26:17 PM
Blimey, if Warner’s going to waft like that, maybe there is hope
I don't think we'd get their total if we were batting again now.
I agree, they've been infected by panic and recklessness. Would love to be proved wrong but I fear the damage is done.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 02:55:27 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 02:56:39 PM
Not that good that its remotely acceptable to be rolled out for 67 in very good batting conditions granted.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 03:01:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 03:05:45 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 03:07:06 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 03:14:20 PM
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
They do, and that irritates me too. No need to throw people under the bus or become defeatist, but when there is a problem I like to hear that it is recognised by the coach and captain. And 3 or 4 double figure first innings totals in two years suggests a whopping problem.
Root blamed the groundsman for the Ireland debacle, saying the pitch "wasn't up to test standard".
Well we've now been bowled out for 67 in bright sunshine and a flat deck.
Post by: Monty on August 23, 2019, 03:16:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 03:18:11 PM
Post by: Rory on August 23, 2019, 03:20:34 PM
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
They do, and that irritates me too. No need to throw people under the bus or become defeatist, but when there is a problem I like to hear that it is recognised by the coach and captain. And 3 or 4 double figure first innings totals in two years suggests a whopping problem.
Root blamed the groundsman for the Ireland debacle, saying the pitch "wasn't up to test standard".
Well we've now been bowled out for 67 in bright sunshine and a flat deck.
Yep. On a tricky deck, against some outstanding bowling, you can understand and forgive the odd 150 score. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case against Australia, or Ireland, or West Indies, or New Zealand.
The red flag is the length of our innings - we don't try to tough it out and bat time, we don't play the conditions, we don't scratch our way to 200 in 80 or 90 overs; we just fold.
Being outplayed or having bad days are just part of sport, but it's that lack of application that gets to me. As soon as things get tough it's as if our collective mindset is 'oh well, write this test off and move onto the next one'.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 03:23:52 PM
It may have been throwaway, but speaks to a serious lack of motivation. Combine that with having averaged under 20 this year in Tests you wonder how he’s playing.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2019, 03:26:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 03:33:32 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 03:36:02 PM
Archer isn’t on it today. Down on pace and accuracy, but probably not surprising as he’s had no rest.
Must feel utterly deflated too.
Post by: Villafirst on August 23, 2019, 03:36:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 03:54:55 PM
Root simply has to go as captain, and primarily because we need our best batsman back. I’m not convinced his captaincy adds any value, but he’s definitely been worse with the bat since he took over and therefore he needs to go back to focussing on that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 03:58:22 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2019, 04:46:46 PM
Post by: LeeB on August 23, 2019, 04:47:41 PM
For fuck's sake. Abu Hamza would have caught that.
One handed.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 23, 2019, 04:49:47 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 04:49:48 PM
For fuck's sake. Abu Hamza would have caught that.
"Death to the West!"
(https://i.ibb.co/Bw3Qfpx/download.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bw3Qfpx)
Post by: LeeB on August 23, 2019, 04:52:56 PM
Root’s game seems to be falling apart in Bothamesque style.
It's a national obsession, lumbering the best player with the captaincy. We never fucking learn.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 23, 2019, 04:57:06 PM
That rules Stokes out then. No-one else is certain of their place. Maybe Broad as an interim? Don't know if he's ever skippered at any level. Anyway, it's difficult for bowlers to do it. The cupboard really is bare. I think the only player in the side who is a county captain is Burns. Maybe Denly.Root’s game seems to be falling apart in Bothamesque style.
It's a national obsession, lumbering the best player with the captaincy. We never fucking learn.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2019, 04:59:01 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 23, 2019, 05:08:31 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 23, 2019, 05:32:39 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 05:33:18 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 23, 2019, 05:37:29 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 06:00:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
If one or two batsmen had done that today we’d be ahead in the game. If we don’t have batsmen who can do that full on reform of our game is needed.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2019, 06:06:33 PM
Post by: Rory on August 23, 2019, 06:17:33 PM
Look at how Labuschagne has played. How the fuck can’t any of our players do it? i.e. basics of leaving and putting a high price on your wicket.
If one or two batsmen had done that today we’d be ahead in the game. If we don’t have batsmen who can do that full on reform of our game is needed.
Yep, these are the basics.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 23, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2019, 06:58:09 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 23, 2019, 07:01:51 PM
Post by: aev on August 23, 2019, 10:54:16 PM
Look at how Labuschagne has played. How the fuck can’t any of our players do it? i.e. basics of leaving and putting a high price on your wicket.
If one or two batsmen had done that today we’d be ahead in the game. If we don’t have batsmen who can do that full on reform of our game is needed.
Yep, these are the basics.
Lucky bloke, he has had plenty of decent preparation in the CC at Glamorgan.
Post by: OzVilla on August 24, 2019, 12:45:00 AM
Think even how poor we were in the 90’s we still had the likes of Atherton, Hussain, Stewart, Thorpe. This lot couldn’t lace their boots. The manner was so poor today that a statement to say we cannot abide that had to be made and I really don’t care who else they pick, any fucker but not those guys.
Root should also be binned as captain if we lose this test match, not at the end of the series but on Monday morning. If you’re going to pick Buttler, put him further up the order and not a 7. Root must go back to 4 (if selected) and go from there.
I’m in for pelters this week thanks to those useless fucks. Thank McGrath the Villa won.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 12:52:34 AM
I don’t think this is solely and English problem, but it’s bizarre in a game where captaincy is arguably more important than it is in every other sport that so little science seems to go into it. Clearly if your best player is the best captain that’s a bonus, but it’s a really specialist role and creating a much better route, no pun intended, is surely critical.
Post by: aev on August 24, 2019, 07:46:57 AM
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27446421/jason-roy-woes-test-opener-epitomise-broken-system
Post by: Steve67 on August 24, 2019, 08:57:00 AM
I know many of you like Giles because of his affinity to Warwickshire, but he needs to show his nuts and make some statements about trying to rebuild our reputation in the longer form of the game. I know that the shorter version of the game seem to be the be all and end all, because of the commercial value it has, but I remain a purist and love the longer form of the game. The County Championship isn't fit for purpose, Bayliss is a short game coach, so bin him, Root is a crap captain, bin him too. Yesterday was embarrassing and heads need to roll. I appreciate there aren't too many players out there to take the places of Burns, Denly, Moeen, Roy etc, probably another reason the County Championship isn't working! A bit like my beloved Worcestershire (other than one day stuff), this is probably the worst side I've seen in my lifetime.
There is some promise with the likes of Archer, Wood and Stone, if they can stay fit, but the batting is a mess.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 24, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
We will lose this test either today or tomorrow so with it the Ashes have gone. We may as well stick with the guys that have got us into the mess rather than ruin the confidence of new players in the high pressure environment of an Ashes series. Make the changes ahead of the winter tours and give the players time to establish themselves. Wholesale changes now are a bit pointless and are the kind of knee jerk reaction that we were once famous for.
We have a generation of batsmen who want to be seen as magnificent ball strikers rather than magnificent batsmen. The latter needs a defensive game on which to build an innings but our batsmen are happy to play the shot of the day rather than the innings of the day. Attitudes and techniques have to change and this should start with different coaches and back room staff for red and white ball cricket, the ECB have the money to do this but I suspect Giles wants one coach.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 10:56:39 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 24, 2019, 11:01:43 AM
We take an early wicket, briefly raising hopes.
The Aussie tail wags and they ultimately set us 400+ to win.
We reach 140 for 8, with Buttler and Broad not out at the close.
We lose a wicket in the first over of the 4th day and then another in the third.
Game over.
Ashes stay in Australia
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 24, 2019, 12:38:21 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 24, 2019, 12:41:14 PM
Post by: London Villan on August 24, 2019, 12:54:26 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 24, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
350 on day three pitch... could we...
Bat until tea? If we knuckle down and a couple of the batsmen elevate their game then there is a slim chance.
Post by: luke:lamf on August 24, 2019, 01:38:56 PM
Post by: CT on August 24, 2019, 01:57:29 PM
Hopefully England can at least last until tea.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 24, 2019, 01:58:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 02:14:29 PM
Just fucking leave anything you don’t need to play and pick off the bad balls, that’s all you need to do.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 24, 2019, 02:17:01 PM
I bet Boycott in the commentary box must be cursing that he can't get out there. At Headingley, and the explicit goal is just to bat forever without losing a wicket.
Boycs replied favourably on Twitter to someone’s idea that England’s best Hope was for Roy to get concussed and for Geoffrey to come on as a batting sub
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 24, 2019, 02:21:55 PM
What a shit show this test has been.Our bowling has been good. The collective brain fart in the first innings is what has fucked us. We get just 100 more then and it's a totally different game. That said, the fielding in their second innings was pretty ragged.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 24, 2019, 02:23:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 02:31:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 02:34:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 02:35:25 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 24, 2019, 02:57:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 03:07:21 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 24, 2019, 03:26:49 PM
For fucks sake Denly, no fucking wafty drives.
Totally agree with you. Well over 2 days to go in this match and the reckless fecker flashes at another wide ball. I hope captain Root has a word in his ear!
Post by: Risso on August 24, 2019, 03:52:25 PM
Post by: Rory on August 24, 2019, 04:07:17 PM
Good discussion on R5 Extra earlier. Apparently Roy’s longest ever innings in terms of actual time is just over 3 hours. Not exactly the best preparation for a test opener expected to take the sting out of the new ball.
I've heard lots of talk in the past about England wanting an aggressive opener like Hayden. Problem with that is that Hayden was a once-in-a-generation player who was very solid defensively and would then accelerate once he got in. You don't get 30 test centuries by throwing the bat at everything from the first over.
Post by: Rory on August 24, 2019, 04:13:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 24, 2019, 04:20:33 PM
If we could fit him in down the order I'd be ok with keeping him in but he can't be opening for us.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 24, 2019, 04:50:22 PM
Going well today, though. If they all bat like this, we have enough batting to get close.
Root and Denly batting sensibly in good batting conditions.
1 wicket inevitably leads to a quick 2 or 3 with England though.
Post by: Steve67 on August 24, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 24, 2019, 05:49:36 PM
Roy needs time, he can become a good option with some time to find his feet but the ashes isn't the place to give him that.
If we could fit him in down the order I'd be ok with keeping him in but he can't be opening for us.
Agreed. He’s an old style pinch-hitting one day opener. He could bat further down the order in Tests but only if Buttler isn’t playing.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 24, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
Post by: Rory on August 24, 2019, 06:03:00 PM
Pitch is still doing enough for the bowlers, though. It's not comfortable. Doing really well to stick in there and tough it out.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 24, 2019, 06:04:06 PM
Post by: Rory on August 24, 2019, 06:07:12 PM
We'll get to 200+ for 2 and then collapse
That would be the most depressing thing imaginable. So yes, probably.
I was feeling optimistic earlier but the pressure is really building now.
Post by: paul_e on August 24, 2019, 06:08:42 PM
Root still needs to answer the 2nd big question though and convert this to a big century.
How we respondcto the next wicket will decide this one though, if we lose 2-3 we're in trouble, if we just accept it and carry on as we are the ashes is back on.
Post by: Monty on August 24, 2019, 06:09:22 PM
Post by: Monty on August 24, 2019, 06:14:05 PM
Post by: Rory on August 24, 2019, 06:15:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 06:16:53 PM
We need to same application from every batsmen.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 06:27:01 PM
Post by: Rory on August 24, 2019, 06:45:12 PM
Bloody hell the Aussies don’t shut up do they?
Always the same when the Aussies have a spinner on. "Oh nice one Shane/Stewie/Lyono!"
Post by: olaftab on August 24, 2019, 06:52:18 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 24, 2019, 07:00:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 07:06:18 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 24, 2019, 07:45:08 PM
Australia 71%
Draw <1%
England 28%
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 08:03:12 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on August 24, 2019, 08:26:50 PM
We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 24, 2019, 08:34:20 PM
One option is Pope, another is to take the gloves off Bairstow and pick Foakes. A further option is to drop Denly and move Roy down, picking Sibley or Crawley to open. I think that would be harsh on Denly: he's batted better than Roy, is excellent in the field and is a useful leg spin option.We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
Post by: paul_e on August 24, 2019, 09:01:36 PM
One option is Pope, another is to take the gloves off Bairstow and pick Foakes. A further option is to drop Denly and move Roy down, picking Sibley or Crawley to open. I think that would be harsh on Denly: he's batted better than Roy, is excellent in the field and is a useful leg spin option.We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
Roy to 5 and Sibley in would be sensible.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 24, 2019, 09:09:08 PM
We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
As others have said Pope, or moving Roy down, or Crawly, or Foakes. Buttler has averaged less than 20 this year in Tests, we can’t carry that for a specialist bat. I personally think he’s mentally tired from the World Cup and needs a break.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 24, 2019, 09:40:49 PM
Roy to 5 and Sibley in would be sensible.I think as things stand Roy's the most at risk.
Post by: Nev on August 25, 2019, 11:26:34 AM
Why now, why not every innings in this series? Regardless of form I have grave misgivings about not only the coaching but the mental approach to test cricket from England.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 11:28:30 AM
Post by: Nev on August 25, 2019, 11:28:31 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 25, 2019, 11:31:24 AM
All the hard work and patience of yesterday just thrown away.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 25, 2019, 11:33:35 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 11:38:26 AM
WTF Root. Why was he charging the spinner at this stage ?Well he only had just over 80 overs to get 200 runs so obvious thing to do :'(
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 11:55:32 AM
WTF Root. Why was he charging the spinner at this stage ?Well he only had just over 80 overs to get 200 runs so obvious thing to do :'(
170 odd overs. They’ve got all day tomorrow as well
Post by: LeeB on August 25, 2019, 01:36:18 PM
Post by: dave shelley on August 25, 2019, 01:56:44 PM
Post by: Monty on August 25, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Post by: Monty on August 25, 2019, 02:11:23 PM
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2019, 02:11:58 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 25, 2019, 02:35:57 PM
Post by: Fred Crump on August 25, 2019, 02:44:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 25, 2019, 03:13:36 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 25, 2019, 03:13:44 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 25, 2019, 03:15:37 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 25, 2019, 03:18:09 PM
Post by: LeeB on August 25, 2019, 03:36:27 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 25, 2019, 03:56:20 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 25, 2019, 04:07:58 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 25, 2019, 04:10:48 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 25, 2019, 04:12:01 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 25, 2019, 04:14:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 04:16:01 PM
Could have taken a run to guarantee a draw. If the Aussies hadn't wasted a review it would be all over. Stokes was plum.
No chance of a draw.
Post by: manic-road on August 25, 2019, 04:17:42 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 04:18:32 PM
Post by: LeeB on August 25, 2019, 04:19:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 04:19:42 PM
Could have taken a run to guarantee a draw. If the Aussies hadn't wasted a review it would be all over. Stokes was plum.Thank you Joe Wilson. Possible the worst Umpire of current era but ;D
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 04:20:23 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 25, 2019, 04:22:02 PM
Arise Sir Ben Stokes...
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 04:22:42 PM
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on August 25, 2019, 04:25:47 PM
Post by: LeeB on August 25, 2019, 04:26:18 PM
Post by: West Derby Villan on August 25, 2019, 04:26:26 PM
Post by: Monty on August 25, 2019, 04:27:03 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 25, 2019, 04:27:27 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 04:30:59 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 04:31:33 PM
Cummins may be the best bowler, Smith the best batsman, but the world's best cricketer by a million miles is Ben Stokes.Just pure talent. Right up there now with the best IMO.
Post by: Nev on August 25, 2019, 04:32:18 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 04:32:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 04:34:33 PM
I couldn't sit down for the last hour, incredible and what a testimonial for Test cricket. Wonderful.I refused to look at anything. TV, Radio, SSN shut my ears and eyes from 62 needed till it was 18 to go.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 25, 2019, 04:35:14 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 04:42:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 04:46:47 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/7b8SGnZ/85987-CFA-12-CB-42-F2-9-B15-8-C9-C7085-C097.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7b8SGnZ)
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2019, 04:49:50 PM
Post by: Uknowthescore on August 25, 2019, 05:00:41 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on August 25, 2019, 05:09:59 PM
Even going into last over I was still expecting Nathan Lyon to get a wicket off his spin. And that drop catch and missed run oit, that's simply sporting pressure.
Kudos to Ben Stokes, he just went into turbo charged one day mode which was what was needed. Also credit to Leach, don't think he scored a run but he played his part.
Which climax was more dramatic, today or Edgbaston 2005? The tension that morning was off the scale.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2019, 05:12:37 PM
I’d say Buttler and Woakes are under threat for the next game.
Post by: dave shelley on August 25, 2019, 05:25:44 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 25, 2019, 05:31:23 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 25, 2019, 05:34:45 PM
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2019, 05:38:01 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 25, 2019, 05:42:52 PM
Post by: Richard E on August 25, 2019, 06:19:27 PM
There's some weapons grade whinging going on by Australians. Variously they blame Jofra Archer, the ECB, British weather, the umpires and Tim Paine. Genuinely there are no sorer losers than Australian sports fans.
Tim Paine himself was very gracious at the end, especially about the Stokes lbw decision. Yes, it was wrong, but it would have been a crime against sport if that knock hadn’t been match winning.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 25, 2019, 06:30:49 PM
What a shit show this test has been.
I posted this at 15-2 in the second innings. Obviously what I meant to say was GREATEST TEST EVER!!!!!!
Post by: Steve67 on August 25, 2019, 06:38:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2019, 06:45:02 PM
There's some weapons grade whinging going on by Australians. Variously they blame Jofra Archer, the ECB, British weather, the umpires and Tim Paine. Genuinely there are no sorer losers than Australian sports fans.
Tim Paine himself was very gracious at the end, especially about the Stokes lbw decision. Yes, it was wrong, but it would have been a crime against sport if that knock hadn’t been match winning.
Tim Paine seems to be a good bloke.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 09:48:35 PM
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 09:51:41 PM
Ben Stokes has probably save Joe Root's job as Captain. Amazing innings. Best I've ever seen.
Hopefully Smith/Taylor will still bin one or maybe both of Roy and Butler.
Curran in for Woakes.
Not sure what they do if Jimmy is fit
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 25, 2019, 10:08:16 PM
Not sure what they do if Jimmy is fitThey pick him and drop Woakes. Woakes has seemed jaded this series. I'd drop Roy for Sibley. What this Test has made absolutely clear is that we need batsmen who can dig the fuck in.
Post by: Monty on August 25, 2019, 10:11:22 PM
Not sure what they do if Jimmy is fitThey pick him and drop Woakes. Woakes has seemed jaded this series. I'd drop Roy for Sibley. What this Test has made absolutely clear is that we need batsmen who can dig the fuck in.
Agreed. Also if Jimmy's not fit we bring Curran in for Woakes, much as I love him.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 10:43:26 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/LCxcHnt/B29-A47-CF-1-BC9-4-D8-E-895-B-EF0-CFACC5-B3-F.png) (https://ibb.co/LCxcHnt)
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 10:53:00 PM
Post by: OzVilla on August 25, 2019, 10:54:53 PM
How did we get on? 😉
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 25, 2019, 10:59:28 PM
he needs to play a 4 day County first or reserve game before he is considered for selection.That's exactly what he has been doing this week.
Post by: Risso on August 25, 2019, 11:05:03 PM
Just woken up, didn’t bother watching last night, wasn’t in the mood to see the likes of Warner and Lyon dancing on the ground celebrating.
How did we get on? 😉
All out for 235. Utter shit, don't bother with the highlights.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 11:14:27 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/WvTjyx7/75-BB4-C66-62-F9-42-DD-8052-FD213289-ABD5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WvTjyx7)
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2019, 11:15:27 PM
Anderson is not fit. He has not played any cricket since the first test in any case. If he is passed medically fit he needs to play a 4 day County first or reserve game before he is considered for selection. Otherwise it's a big risk.
He’s playing a game starting Tuesday
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 11:17:53 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2019, 11:18:51 PM
A balanced Aussie viewThanks for this. Good read.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 25, 2019, 11:32:53 PM
It is, ta for posting.A balanced Aussie viewThanks for this. Good read.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
Post by: Nunkin1965 on August 25, 2019, 11:40:42 PM
It is, ta for posting.A balanced Aussie viewThanks for this. Good read.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
Yes a great piece on an extraordinary day.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 25, 2019, 11:52:50 PM
Not sure what they do if Jimmy is fitThey pick him and drop Woakes. Woakes has seemed jaded this series. I'd drop Roy for Sibley. What this Test has made absolutely clear is that we need batsmen who can dig the fuck in.
Hope we don't get complacent as there are a few changes that need to be made. Roy is not a test opener, but I would maybe have a look at him further down the order in place of Jos Buttler who needs a break. I would give Crawley or Sibley a debut and would also swap Denly and Root and let the latter bat in his favoured position.
If Anderson is properly fit then he will play and poor old Woakesy will miss out again.
I still can't quite believe Stokes' innings earlier. Not that he got the runs, but more the manner in which he did it. Probably the closest thing to Botham's innings on the same ground in 1981, but in some ways even more impressive as it was in the fourth innings chasing a total.
Post by: West Derby Villan on August 26, 2019, 12:03:03 AM
A balanced Aussie view
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
Thanks Redsox, "proper cricket rules ok!"
Post by: OzVilla on August 26, 2019, 01:02:27 AM
Just woken up, didn’t bother watching last night, wasn’t in the mood to see the likes of Warner and Lyon dancing on the ground celebrating.
How did we get on? 😉
All out for 235. Utter shit, don't bother with the highlights.
Thanks for the heads up Risso. It must have been dull as literally no ones mentioned it.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 26, 2019, 01:24:21 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 26, 2019, 07:35:35 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49468534
I never thought Edgbaston 2005 would be surpassed but I think that it has been now.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 26, 2019, 11:04:40 AM
I still can't quite believe Stokes' innings earlier. Not that he got the runs, but more the manner in which he did it. Probably the closest thing to Botham's innings on the same ground in 1981, but in some ways even more impressive as it was in the fourth innings chasing a total.
Stokes started off the innings playing like Boycott and finished it like Botham. The ability to adapt to the circumstances is something that a lot of players don't have....... yes Jason Roy, I'm looking at you
Post by: Nev on August 26, 2019, 11:24:08 AM
I still can't quite believe Stokes' innings earlier. Not that he got the runs, but more the manner in which he did it. Probably the closest thing to Botham's innings on the same ground in 1981, but in some ways even more impressive as it was in the fourth innings chasing a total.
Stokes started off the innings playing like Boycott and finished it like Botham. The ability to adapt to the circumstances is something that a lot of players don't have....... yes Jason Roy, I'm looking at you
Absolutely. Cast your mind back to that brainless, scrambled opening run right at the start of the Test for an example of the mind set, we shouldn't be doing that in the first over, only at the death as we saw last night. That measured, disciplined approach in the second innings laid the foundation for Stokes, and he was still leaving in the last hour yesterday.
We need to take that into the last two tests, that stoic approach wore down a good Australia side, forced loose bowling and fielding errors, muddled captaincy and ultimately a Test win. Those first four maiden overs were just what we needed at the start of play yesterday, I was delighted. Defend, defend, wait for the odd slack delivery and have that one quality lacking in so many players, and a lot of fans. Patience.
Post by: paul_e on August 26, 2019, 12:17:31 PM
I think it's about control more than patience, Roy, Buttler and a few others feel out of control if they not feeling bat on ball, especially if they scratching for form.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 26, 2019, 01:41:20 PM
You can vote for your most thrilling Ashes win on BBC Sport:It's difficult to look beyond yesterday, and Stokes's innings was one of the greatest of all time, but I think the overall quality of the cricket in 2005 was much higher.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49468534
I never thought Edgbaston 2005 would be surpassed but I think that it has been now.
Post by: Nev on August 26, 2019, 03:12:11 PM
But this ignores the counter attack from Bairstow who was scoring at nearly a run a ball not long after he arrived which eased the pressure and put them on the back foot, to a lesser extent Archer was doing the same.
I think it's about control more than patience, Roy, Buttler and a few others feel out of control if they not feeling bat on ball, especially if they scratching for form.
Yes, control is part of the armour but by the time Bairstow was at the crease a lot of spadework had been done. Conventional wisdom has it that your openers are circumspect, with the middle order being a little bit more free to make shots provided said openers have done a good job. At the moment we are lacking a partner for Burns which means the middle order are then under pressure to be more careful but until yesterday, the same mistakes were made all the way down the order. That lead to my comment about the attitude and the coaching which at least until Bairstow's appearance had suddenly gone from white ball to red ball as our batsmen dug in.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 26, 2019, 03:16:03 PM
You can vote for your most thrilling Ashes win on BBC Sport:It's difficult to look beyond yesterday, and Stokes's innings was one of the greatest of all time, but I think the overall quality of the cricket in 2005 was much higher.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49468534
I never thought Edgbaston 2005 would be surpassed but I think that it has been now.
It certainly was, well the batting on both sides was anyway. But as an individual test in isolation Headingley 2019 is easily the best.
Post by: olaftab on August 27, 2019, 01:48:22 AM
The enormity of the task in 1981 was significantly greater.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 27, 2019, 05:44:18 AM
However the Ashes weren’t at stake as it was only the second test in that series. Stokes knew that one poor shot, an unplayable delivery or a mindless runout and The Ashes were gone. The way that he started his innings with patient, defensive batting built a platform for what was to come. Stokes single handedly saved the test and also the Ashes. Cricket is a team game played by individuals and Stokes showed courage and skill in his innings.
I remember watching Botham in 1981 when all sport that I followed seemed to be full of excitement but for sheer skill from one player this one tops it.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on August 27, 2019, 06:42:15 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 27, 2019, 10:08:49 PM
The more I look at it however, I don't think the DRS got the Stokes one right. The ball seemed to be on a line with the outside of leg stump, maybe even missing completely when it hit Stokes front pad. The line after appears to show the ball deviating further after hitting the pad in a pretty illogical way.
Obviously its funnier that the Aussies have this to gripe about too.
It's made me think the system is actually nowhere near the reliability levels its creators would have us believe.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 28, 2019, 12:31:54 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 28, 2019, 12:58:14 PM
Vaughan made an awful point too. He basically said that as England had a review left, Wilson should have given it out and if wrong the review would have overturned it. I think that is nonsense. For a start, that is rewarding the team that wasted their reviews. It removes the benefit of the doubt which every umpire surely has to factor in regardless of match situation. The umpire has to adjudicate every ball on its merits. He shouldn't be factoring in the state of the game or which team has a review left. If he thinks there is enough doubt to give it not out then he should do so.
I get that Joel Wilson has been atrocious in this series and really doesn't warrant his place on the elite panel, but for Vaughan to suggest umpires completely change their thought process on the back of this one instance is just daft.
Post by: paul_e on August 28, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on August 28, 2019, 02:29:21 PM
I thought in real time it was drifting down leg side.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 28, 2019, 06:36:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 28, 2019, 06:48:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 28, 2019, 07:23:28 PM
Picture I've seen where the ball struck Stokes in line with leg stump. The ball was drifting towards the leg side, and whilst it did straighten, I don't think it straightened enough to clatter into middle and leg stumps which is what the ball tracking suggested.
Vaughan made an awful point too. He basically said that as England had a review left, Wilson should have given it out and if wrong the review would have overturned it. I think that is nonsense. For a start, that is rewarding the team that wasted their reviews. It removes the benefit of the doubt which every umpire surely has to factor in regardless of match situation. The umpire has to adjudicate every ball on its merits. He shouldn't be factoring in the state of the game or which team has a review left. If he thinks there is enough doubt to give it not out then he should do so.
I get that Joel Wilson has been atrocious in this series and really doesn't warrant his place on the elite panel, but for Vaughan to suggest umpires completely change their thought process on the back of this one instance is just daft.
Yep I was baffled by that point.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 29, 2019, 11:51:26 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 30, 2019, 07:46:46 AM
When do they announce the squad for the 4th Test ?
I think the announcement is today.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 30, 2019, 02:16:16 PM
Appears the selectors have fallen into trap of thinking everything is fine after the last test.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 30, 2019, 03:01:48 PM
Anderson ruled out for the summer. Craig Overton weirdly added to the squad and no changes to batsmen included.
Appears the selectors have fallen into trap of thinking everything is fine after the last test.
I agree with you but wonder who they could call up? With two huge tests to play it’s not the time for wholesale changes and hopefully Root, Stokes and Bairstow seem to have played themselves into some sort of form.
I think that they will tweak the batting line up with Root at 4, but otherwise I think that they will stick with the side that won at Headingley.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 30, 2019, 03:37:26 PM
Post by: Monty on August 30, 2019, 03:41:12 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 30, 2019, 04:33:50 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 30, 2019, 04:58:19 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 30, 2019, 05:34:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 30, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 30, 2019, 06:57:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 30, 2019, 07:00:24 PM
Jimmy being out is a blow. I’d consider Curran for Woakes.
I agree, there's clearly a problem with Woakes because Root has massively under-bowled him for big chunks of the last couple of tests so I'd be fine with him going back to the bears for the rest of the season and rejoining england for the winter. That's in no way inspired by the injury problems at Edgbaston.
Post by: KevinGage on August 30, 2019, 08:55:46 PM
I think Curran would be the right call. Looking more reliable with the bat which matters with our flimsy top order, and would offer a different angle of attack. Plus Woakes looks shattered.
Yep, would agree with that.
Often adds a fresh impetus whether he comes in to bowl bat.
Post by: olaftab on September 01, 2019, 07:05:42 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 03, 2019, 01:35:42 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 03, 2019, 01:52:45 PM
Overton is a weird one, and a bit of a slap in the face to Curran.
Overton didn't look remotely good enough for test cricket a couple of years ago down under, so it will be interesting to see if he see if has made the necessary improvements.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 03, 2019, 02:15:30 PM
According to the averages, he's not even the best bowler to develop from his egg
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/county-championship-division-one/averages
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 03, 2019, 03:05:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 03, 2019, 03:48:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 03, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 03, 2019, 04:24:55 PM
I agree with dropping Woakes but replacing him with Overton is an odd one.
Yeah it’s been weird with Woakes this series. I don’t get Overton though.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 03, 2019, 04:47:19 PM
I think it's all about his height in the hopes that he'll get a bit of extra bounce. I'd rather we'd picked Curran as a skiddy swing option.We already have Broad and Archer for extra bounce; I agree with you - always go for the variety. I'd fancy Curran to score more from number 8 too, although to be fair Overton can bat a bit.
Post by: NottsVilla on September 03, 2019, 05:25:43 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 03, 2019, 05:43:20 PM
Denly is saying that he is going to open at Old Trafford with Jason Roy moving down to number 4.That's about eight places too high for Roy.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 04, 2019, 10:08:48 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/03/england-more-runs-ashes-craig-overton-australia
Vic's one of my favourite cricket writers/broadcasters
I'm currently reading his biography.
Don't expect any major revelations or contentious comments but it's still very interesting.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Spin-Misadventures-Vic-Marks/dp/1911630199
Post by: UK Redsox on September 04, 2019, 10:36:02 AM
Post by: olaftab on September 04, 2019, 10:45:43 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 04, 2019, 10:57:05 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 04, 2019, 11:09:28 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2019, 11:21:10 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 04, 2019, 11:26:36 AM
What's Archer's thinking here? Pace low eighties, line and length. That's exactly what Overton's been brought in to do. Still, early days.
Jofra always starts off at a lower pace
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2019, 11:38:27 AM
Enough of the warm up. I want to see him crank it right up against Smith.What's Archer's thinking here? Pace low eighties, line and length. That's exactly what Overton's been brought in to do. Still, early days.
Jofra always starts off at a lower pace
Post by: Villan For Life on September 04, 2019, 12:11:55 PM
Post by: luke:lamf on September 04, 2019, 12:22:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2019, 12:34:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2019, 12:49:44 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 04, 2019, 12:54:12 PM
Why Archer has only bowled 5 overs is a mystery. Why Root took him out of the attack after he started getting his pace up is baffling.
Post by: manic-road on September 04, 2019, 12:56:38 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 04, 2019, 01:00:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2019, 01:03:33 PM
Outside of Broad they’ve been dross.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2019, 01:06:14 PM
Have we selected him purely because he showed some spirit in Aus?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2019, 01:07:52 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2019, 01:08:22 PM
I just don't understand Archer's first spell. He'd got a brand new ball, two new batsmen at the crease and he just trundles in. By the time he ramped it up he'd done 5 overs and was taken off. That was a criminal waste of the new ball. Broad, on the other hand, used it brilliantly.
Post by: Risso on September 04, 2019, 01:28:07 PM
Why Archer has only bowled 5 overs is a mystery. Why Root took him out of the attack after he started getting his pace up is baffling.
It's not that mcuh of a mystery. Root is a crap captain.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 04, 2019, 01:28:53 PM
Why Archer has only bowled 5 overs is a mystery. Why Root took him out of the attack after he started getting his pace up is baffling.
It's not that mcuh of a mystery. Root is a crap captain.
Yep. Root got very lucky that Stokes bailed him out at Headingly.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2019, 01:36:25 PM
Post by: Rory on September 04, 2019, 04:04:00 PM
Why Archer has only bowled 5 overs is a mystery. Why Root took him out of the attack after he started getting his pace up is baffling.
It's not that mcuh of a mystery. Root is a crap captain.
I think we need to move beyond the automatic grooming of our best batsman for captaincy. I know it's not necessarily a new thing, but pretty much every one of our 21st century captains has been chosen that way, and then we wonder what went wrong.
Our most successful captain (statistically) of recent years has been Strauss and he only got the job after the KP fiasco.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2019, 04:23:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 04, 2019, 04:32:09 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 04, 2019, 04:34:51 PM
They’re both going to score 400 here.
FTFY
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2019, 04:37:07 PM
I think we need to move beyond the automatic grooming of our best batsman for captaincy. I know it's not necessarily a new thing, but pretty much every one of our 21st century captains has been chosen that way, and then we wonder what went wrong.I agree but the centrally contracted players simply don't play enough red ball cricket to ever learn the art of captaincy. Of the current county championship captains only Rory Burns is in the Test side. The only other remotely feasible alternatives are Dawid Malan, James Vince and maybe Sam Northeast.
Our most successful captain (statistically) of recent years has been Strauss and he only got the job after the KP fiasco.
So if not Root who?
Post by: Rory on September 04, 2019, 04:47:22 PM
I think we need to move beyond the automatic grooming of our best batsman for captaincy. I know it's not necessarily a new thing, but pretty much every one of our 21st century captains has been chosen that way, and then we wonder what went wrong.I agree but the centrally contracted players simply don't play enough red ball cricket to ever learn the art of captaincy. Of the current county championship captains only Rory Burns is in the Test side. The only other remotely feasible alternatives are Dawid Malan, James Vince and maybe Sam Northeast.
Our most successful captain (statistically) of recent years has been Strauss and he only got the job after the KP fiasco.
So if not Root who?
Yep, absolutely. I'm not clamouring for Root to be binned, but I'd like to see us really work on identifying and developing future captains over a number of years, rather than looking at our top 6 and saying "he's averaging 45, he'll do".
I'd rather have a top captain who averages 25 than pick a guy averaging 60, expect him to do a job, and see his batting suffer anyway (as seems inevitable).
Brearley is an obvious example but I also think about Fleming, who helped to completely transform cricket in NZ.
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2019, 05:35:36 PM
From what I've seen this was definitely a bat first pitch but given it's Manchester it can fall apart pretty quickly so we need to keep them from getting a massive score today andf then hope there's more in it for us tomorrow. I think this is already a pretty difficult one for us to get more than a draw.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 04, 2019, 05:56:05 PM
It still an atrocious batting line up even with Roy and Denly swapped around.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2019, 06:57:21 PM
Fair play to Overton for that wicket, it was a belting delivery.
We need Jof to be a hell of a lot better than he was today.
Post by: Steve67 on September 04, 2019, 07:17:13 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2019, 07:49:12 PM
Much as I hate them, you have admired their grit and determination. The balance and momentum should have shifted towards England with the brilliance of Stokes in the last test but the Aussies have dug in superbly and it will take something pretty special to win this test. We need several quick and early wickets tomorrow morning.
The long break helped, a 4-5 day turn around would've seen it still in their minds that they lost a test that should've sealed the ashes for them, as the break was longer they had a chance to put it in perspective.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2019, 08:32:31 AM
I'd rather have a top captain who averages 25 than pick a guy averaging 60, expect him to do a job, and see his batting suffer anyway (as seems inevitable).
Brearley is an obvious example but I also think about Fleming, who helped to completely transform cricket in NZ.
I still think that the captain has to be worth his place in the side. Brearley's brilliant captaincy and man-management skills tend to overshadow the fact that he was still a very good player.
Anyhow..........Chris Cowdrey
Post by: manic-road on September 05, 2019, 11:23:22 AM
Post by: manic-road on September 05, 2019, 11:30:05 AM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 05, 2019, 11:57:55 AM
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2019/9/5/be90dd7e-3dc8-4037-a6bb-13d6826b41f1.png)
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2019, 12:03:42 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 12:08:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 05, 2019, 12:18:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 12:55:15 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2019, 12:56:46 PM
Need to get Smith out for sub 300-320
FIFY
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 12:56:54 PM
Need to get them out for sub 300-320
That would still be about 100 too many for our comedy batsmen to cope with.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 12:57:55 PM
Smith could smoke a cigar by the time the ball gets down to him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 01:07:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2019, 01:10:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 02:01:44 PM
This is Blues from England.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 05, 2019, 02:05:18 PM
Edit. How can a left arm spinner bowl a no ball?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 02:06:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2019, 02:06:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 02:07:43 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 05, 2019, 02:08:11 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 02:10:56 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 05, 2019, 02:17:02 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 02:18:41 PM
Root has got to lose the captaincy. He has been a joke.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 04:00:04 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 05, 2019, 04:14:51 PM
Be nice to think our top order could dig in and England get a massive score to take the series to a fifth test on something of a high.
More likely, 150 all out.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 04:24:48 PM
Don't expect any fight from our batsmen. Stokes had a miracle innings at Headingley, but lightning will not strike twice. Need at least a day and a halfs worth of rain, which isn't forecast.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 04:35:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 04:53:35 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 05, 2019, 05:07:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 05:19:07 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 05:33:55 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2019, 05:43:24 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2019, 05:44:37 PM
Fucking boo
You are Fred MacAulay and I claim my five pounds :)
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 05:56:38 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 05, 2019, 06:13:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 06:17:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 06:21:00 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 05, 2019, 06:33:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 06:39:23 PM
I agreed with Woakes being left out, partially because he has looked a bit off colour and also because Root hasn’t been using him, but this is one of those games where he will start to be appreciated.
I think England got sulky due to the conditions yesterday, felt sorry for themselves, and never shook off that negative attitude. They were woeful.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 06:40:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 06:46:05 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 05, 2019, 06:48:58 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 05, 2019, 06:49:30 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 05, 2019, 06:53:11 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 06:53:29 PM
Session 2 and 3 have been the worst Field sessions for England in this series so far.
Worst for a number of years at home. Poor drops, spinnier overstepping and then just going through the motions.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 05, 2019, 06:55:05 PM
Woakes has been badly treated. He's had 10 days off and I'm sure he'd have come back refreshed. His batting is also way better than Overton's. Root is a poor captain.Nah, dropping him was the right call and Overton did at least as well if not better than the other bowlers.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 06:56:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 07:00:51 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 05, 2019, 07:19:51 PM
Denly continues the fine example of our openers.It was such a poor decision to shove him up the order. Drop Roy, pick Sibley was the blindingly obvious choice.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 07:23:02 PM
Add to that the odd selection of Overton and we probably deserve to be in this position. Need it to bucket down for a couple of days.
Post by: Villafirst on September 05, 2019, 07:24:36 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 05, 2019, 07:45:44 PM
Have to say that Old Trafford looks a right mess. A real hotch potch of a ground. No symmetry to the stadium.
A bit like all Cricket grounds then, including Edgbaston. Traditional test grounds have had major developments to cash in on ECB ££ but never in an aesthetically pleasing way. Trent Bridge is probably the nicest test ground now after Lords.
As for the test, Woakes deserved to be dropped as he’s woefully out of form. I’d rather have seen Curran play instead but the selectors thought otherwise. I really feel that we will struggle to avoid the follow on in this test and hopefully some lauded Manchester sunshine will make a timely intervention to save us.
Post by: aj2k77 on September 05, 2019, 07:57:41 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 05, 2019, 08:01:12 PM
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
None at home.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 05, 2019, 08:03:55 PM
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
It’s rare that we are so poor in the field. There was just no intensity today, the bollocking that Root delivered after the no ball (non) wicket really made no difference.
We could have had them for 300/320 instead we let them amass a lead that we will struggle to get near across two innings.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2019, 09:12:25 PM
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
None at home.
Oh I don’t know. We’ve had some great moments, but we’ve had some shocking days at home as well as away. There needs to be a real re-focus on Test cricket.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 05, 2019, 09:32:25 PM
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?First day against Ireland.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 05, 2019, 11:07:49 PM
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
None at home.
Oh I don’t know. We’ve had some great moments, but we’ve had some shocking days at home as well as away. There needs to be a real re-focus on Test cricket.
Said it before, but on the whole they only seem able to produce good performances when they have been on the receiving end of stinging criticism in the press. I have long suspected that the England dressing room is too comfortable an environment once a player has established himself and there isn't too much finger pointing towards certain players.
Post by: manic-road on September 06, 2019, 11:07:44 AM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2019, 06:06:38 PM
Burns gone after a good day for him and a useful 81.
Let's see how Roy does down at 4 and if Root can convert to a big ton from here.
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2019, 06:12:58 PM
This thread is interestingly quiet was everyone just really scared of giving them the mockers?
Burns gone after a good day for him and a useful 81.
Let's see how Roy does down at 4 and if Root can convert to a big ton from here.
Better hope he gets a quick fire thirty from the next few overs then, because you can pretty much guarantee he'll be out in the first half an hour tomorrow morning.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 06, 2019, 06:15:21 PM
All the hard work of the day being undone.
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2019, 06:17:09 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2019, 06:17:35 PM
Root again fails to convert a start.
That’s the difference between the best batsman in each team
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2019, 06:19:57 PM
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2019, 06:24:07 PM
Root is so frustrating
I just don't think he has the mental toughness. Obviously he's a good batsmen, but not a great one; and is a very ordinary captain, at best.
Post by: Monty on September 06, 2019, 06:44:54 PM
Also, sorry but Roy and Denley have to do something exceptional in the second innings or I really don't think they should be picked for The Oval.
Post by: thick_mike on September 06, 2019, 06:45:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2019, 06:49:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2019, 06:58:06 PM
On thing that always irritates me is that whenever we lose a set batsman the guy up the other end just doesn’t seem to realise they need to dig in for a bit and adjust their game.
Stupid and unnecessary shot from Roy, has to learn to play the situation.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2019, 07:01:25 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 06, 2019, 07:03:53 PM
I'd replace Root if there were superior alternatives available but it's hard to make a compelling case for anyone else.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2019, 07:03:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2019, 07:06:07 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 06, 2019, 07:10:50 PM
Post by: Risso on September 06, 2019, 07:16:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 06, 2019, 08:43:39 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 06, 2019, 10:49:48 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 06, 2019, 11:33:02 PM
I don’t hold much hope on avoiding the follow on, even if they don’t enforce it as is the modern trend. The new ball is due in about 7 overs and fresh Aussies bowlers with a new ball will trouble our lower middle order.
I don’t hold much hope on avoiding the follow on, even if they don’t enforce it as is the modern trend. The new ball is due in about 7 overs and fresh Aussies bowlers with a new ball will trouble our lower middle order.
Ah, but you've forgotten Ben Stokes. If he can hog the ball, and backed up by Bairstow and Jos Buttler surely they can muster 98? The new ball will be key though.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2019, 11:48:24 AM
Great ball by Starc
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 12:16:17 PM
Brilliant talent undeniably, but he needs to cut this shit out and quick.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 12:34:42 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 12:35:52 PM
Post by: Risso on September 07, 2019, 01:24:37 PM
What the hell is up with Jofra Archers attitude in this test match? Jogs in to bowl 82mph, doesn't look interested fielding and nearly gets himself run out first ball by not bothering to run.
Brilliant talent undeniably, but he needs to cut this shit out and quick.
You would have to assume he’s not fully fit. If not, he’s making Ross McCormack look like James Milner.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 02:09:59 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 02:21:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 02:24:32 PM
No weather to save us.
Post by: Richard E on September 07, 2019, 02:35:47 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 07, 2019, 03:04:57 PM
Post by: Nev on September 07, 2019, 03:08:33 PM
Warne making the same moronic point as Vaughan did now about giving it out because the batting team have a review left.
It's utter nonsense, he sounded bitter over the lbw not given. Tit.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 03:17:51 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 07, 2019, 03:21:16 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 03:24:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 03:41:44 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 03:43:37 PM
Jof has his pace up and looks a real threat.
Its great to watch, but we needed this in the 1st innings when they were 29/2.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 03:51:05 PM
Leach should come into the attack before him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 04:15:22 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 04:16:06 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 07, 2019, 04:43:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 05:05:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 05:43:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 05:44:51 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 07, 2019, 05:52:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 05:55:43 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 07, 2019, 05:56:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 05:57:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 06:03:49 PM
Post by: Monty on September 07, 2019, 06:20:44 PM
It also sends the message of surrender.
To be honest, I fucking surrender. We're up against something not human.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 06:33:18 PM
We don’t deserve to win the Ashes we’ve been fucking rubbish.
Post by: dubont on September 07, 2019, 06:34:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 06:35:23 PM
Post by: Martin Carruthers on September 07, 2019, 06:40:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2019, 06:43:08 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 07, 2019, 06:50:21 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 07, 2019, 06:53:23 PM
Root gone as well. Brilliant delivery, but this team has been poor at Test cricket for far too long.Come on now, we beat India 4-1 last summer. We beat Sri Lanka away 3-0 in the winter. There are good results and performances but we have to acknowledge that Australia are a far stronger team than us. In particular they've got the world's best batsman in the form of his life, a surplus of high quality quicks and an off-spinner who has taken 300+ wickets. On top of that we're missing our best bowler.
We've turned in some genuinely shit performances, don't get me wrong, and English cricket has some major structural problems but to say we've been poor for far too long just isn't the case.
Post by: OzVilla on September 07, 2019, 09:49:47 PM
We just arnt good enough.
Post by: Colhint on September 07, 2019, 09:57:13 PM
So we have gone into this without Cook and Anderson our top run scorer and wicket taker.
I think most of our players look knackered.
Post by: Risso on September 07, 2019, 09:59:14 PM
Post by: Colhint on September 07, 2019, 10:06:57 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 07, 2019, 10:08:18 PM
If we had a half decent top order we’d have been tough to beat at home. Smith aside, this Australian side isn’t all that. But we’ve the poorest top 4 in living memory and our all time leading wicket taker missing.You don't rate Hazlewood, Lyon and Cummins?
We just good enough.
Post by: OzVilla on September 07, 2019, 10:43:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 07, 2019, 10:59:06 PM
No team has ever won the next test series after winning the one day world cup. I think all our focus has been on that. It also fell in the period of losing Cook Trott and Bell. No of whom would have played in that.
So we have gone into this without Cook and Anderson our top run scorer and wicket taker.
I think most of our players look knackered.
You can’t compare World Cup winners who lost the next test series anymore because the squads are so different. Yes there are players that play all formats who may be jaded but it doesn’t stack up.
Trott retired four years ago and Bell was dropped two years ago, we can’t keep blaming their retirement. The simple fact is our system isn’t producing adequate replacements.
Now we might pull off something miraculous tomorrow which I doubt but this series has been closer than you think. All test sides are struggling to score runs, it’s the global effect of T20. Now India have Kohli and the Aussies Smith but in the main test cricket is being dominated by bowlers. Quite ironic considering that white ball cricket is dominated by the batsmen.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 12:08:27 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 02:27:37 AM
One thing I do dislike, is Broads knack for celebraring LBWs, not bothering to appeal and almost daring the umpire to give it not out. Glenn Mcgrath used to do that and its a bellend move.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 08, 2019, 08:03:24 AM
Ultimately the difference in the series is going to be Smith. Personally I can't wait for the prick to retire already. I don't get this "privilege to watch him" bollocks. I much prefer my Aussies to be shit and on the end of thrashings and humiliation.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 12:28:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 12:42:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 12:44:16 PM
That was really poor from Stokes. If you are going to leave the ball then leave it properly
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 12:49:14 PM
Post by: Monty on September 08, 2019, 01:30:18 PM
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
I think this attack is better than Johnson and Harris. Less likely to blow you away with 7fer, but more relentless and consistent. And Labuschagne is clearly real class. Other than that though I do agree with your point - but I also wouldn't understate the effect of Smith. He's a monster.
Post by: Chris Smith on September 08, 2019, 01:38:02 PM
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
I think this attack is better than Johnson and Harris. Less likely to blow you away with 7fer, but more relentless and consistent. And Labuschagne is clearly real class. Other than that though I do agree with your point - but I also wouldn't understate the effect of Smith. He's a monster.
If Smith was English we would be winning this series, other than him the two sides are fairly evenly matched
Post by: Richard on September 08, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 01:47:49 PM
Lets be honest, without a freakish innings from Stokes in the last match, we would now be about to go 3-0 down. being 2-1 down after this match flatters us. There are caveats of course. Losing Anderson for the whole series is a monumental blow, and groundsmen preparing pitches with no grass on them is perplexing.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 01:49:23 PM
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
I think this attack is better than Johnson and Harris. Less likely to blow you away with 7fer, but more relentless and consistent. And Labuschagne is clearly real class. Other than that though I do agree with your point - but I also wouldn't understate the effect of Smith. He's a monster.
If Smith was English we would be winning this series, other than him the two sides are fairly evenly matched
I'd disagree. Their bowling attack has been far more consistent throughout. Once Broad and Archer come out the attack its easy against the change bowlers.
Post by: Villa Lew on September 08, 2019, 02:03:38 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 02:07:11 PM
Good knock from Joe Denly
That's the thing though. He did ok, but no better than ok in that innings.
30s, 40s and 50s are viewed as almost heroic performances by the coaching staff and selectors. They don't mean anything. They don't win you games and don't save you games. Far too many of England's batsmen consider it as job done.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 08, 2019, 02:23:55 PM
Can't agree that Roy was unlucky he got bowled through the gate again showing a poor technique.
Yep. It was a good ball but if Roy’s leg had followed his bat, the ball would not have got through and impact would likely have bee outside
Post by: UK Redsox on September 08, 2019, 02:24:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2019, 02:45:59 PM
In my opinion there's fuck all between the teams other than Smith is bang in form and we lost our key opener in the first session of the series. We have problems to address but so does everyone else. We have a bit of a bad habit of seeing the problems England have and ignoring the issues for other countries.
As an example, the Aussie openers have averaged 9, 11 and 11 in this series, Smith and/or Labuschange have pulled their arses out of the fire in almost every innings, just like we couldn't keep relying on Stokes/Bairstow/Buttler/Moeen scoring 200-300 runs to bail out the top 4 they can't rely on Smith and Labuschange scoring nearly half of their runs for the entire series.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 03:02:29 PM
There's more difference between these teams than Smith. Lets not forget if not for a freak innings from Stokes, we would have lost the last test comfortably, and that was without Smith in their side. The other big difference after Smith has been the drop of in quality of the change bowlers. They have had the likes of Pattinson, Siddle and Starc to call on after the opening bowlers, whereas we have had Woakes (bowling poorly), Stokes (bowling poorly apart from 2nd innings at Headingly) and Craig Overton (not test quality)
You make a more than valid point about other teams issues, but what I would counter that with is that Australia are away from home. Their top order doesn't struggle like this in Australia, whereas our top order can't perform in their own conditions.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 03:09:00 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 08, 2019, 03:11:24 PM
The posts about Denley, he has starts in most innings but has NOT gone on to make big scores when we need him to hang around even more.
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2019, 03:22:06 PM
The point about Denly was in no way to blame him. Yes of course Burns, Root and Stokes are all more at fault for their low scores. It was just a general point about England batsmen being satisfied getting those sort of scores, when generally they are not match defining.
There's more difference between these teams than Smith. Lets not forget if not for a freak innings from Stokes, we would have lost the last test comfortably, and that was without Smith in their side. The other big difference after Smith has been the drop of in quality of the change bowlers. They have had the likes of Pattinson, Siddle and Starc to call on after the opening bowlers, whereas we have had Woakes (bowling poorly), Stokes (bowling poorly apart from 2nd innings at Headingly) and Craig Overton (not test quality)
You make a more than valid point about other teams issues, but what I would counter that with is that Australia are away from home. Their top order doesn't struggle like this in Australia, whereas our top order can't perform in their own conditions.
Sorry but no. If Cummins had got injured in the first match and missed the series their bowling would've had all the same issues we've had without Anderson. Lyon is a better spinner than Leach or Moeen but Stokes gives us the benefit of a genuine 5th bowler which they're missing so I don't think there's much between the attacks as they were on the opening morning of the first test. Comparing Pattinson, Siddle and Starc to Woakes, etc is unfair because our plan for this series was for Archer to be part of of that 3rd/4th bowler 'set' so again, losing Jimmy has had a massive impact on our attack. Archer has been better than all of those aussies since he came in but he's been pushed up to 2nd seamer earlier than anyone planned.
I don't think anyone thinks job done when they get 30-50, it's more that they've seen off the early overs and got 'in' and then have a bad habit of trying to play shots that aren't on. That's a result of most of our batsmen having played very little red ball cricket in the last 7-8 months before this series started and I think most of them have shown signs of improvement as the series has gone on.
On the last bit, Australia lost at home to India 8 months ago and lost at home to SA a couple of years ago so yes they have just as many problems. Again take Smith out of this team and I think we'd be 3-1/3-0 up and bringing the Ashes home, our main failing is all about us not having any plans or ideas on getting him out (I think we've bowled too short to him, late swing in or out on a 4th stump line and a good/full length would be my game to him, with mid-on and mid-off in cover the drives down the ground.
Post by: Monty on September 08, 2019, 03:28:50 PM
I’d be inclined to drop Bairtstow. He’s not delivering the bat, and he’s not the best keeper. He needs runs to keep his place.
Yep, Foakes should come in for sure. Also inclined to bring in Pope for Roy and possibly Sibley for Denley. And give Buttler the captaincy.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 03:30:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 03:50:29 PM
Terrible from third umpire Overton smashed that into his pad and he was obsessed by ultra edge.
Post by: Villafirst on September 08, 2019, 03:51:23 PM
This ball changing is ridiculous. You’re telling me that this ball is equivalent to a 60 over old ball? Fuck off.
Useless fucking umpire! Obvious that the ball hit bat first onto pad!
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2019, 03:58:19 PM
I’d be inclined to drop Bairtstow. He’s not delivering the bat, and he’s not the best keeper. He needs runs to keep his place.
Yep, Foakes should come in for sure. Also inclined to bring in Pope for Roy and possibly Sibley for Denley. And give Buttler the captaincy.
I'd agree on that, I think Buttler is a good captain and it would give him more justification as a speciallist batsman at 7.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 03:59:21 PM
They have been on top with the ball pretty much every time they have bowled. Broad has been excellent, Archer very good (except for a poor 1st innings this match), but after that we've had nothing. It's not just Smith who has done well against our change bowlers, we haven't looked like getting Labuschagne out cheaply either. You of course make a valid point about Anderson being out, but we can't put an asterisk by the whole series. The fact remains that the bowling attacks we have had haven't been as good as theirs.
I do think a lot of our players are satisfied with 40s and 50s as they know it pretty much keeps them in the team. There doesn't seem to be the hunger to go on and on that players like Trott had, Strauss had and Cook had. Look at Root, who is a technically brilliant player, but has only got 16 hundreds despite passing fifty 60 times. Root has the ability to play a lot more match defining innings than he does. He needs to have the captaincy taken away after this series and hopefully just concentrating on his batting can turn that around.
I know Australia have lost series at home (having players banned against India didn't help), and in fairness we win most at home. However, our batting malaise even at home has been going on for years.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 04:03:29 PM
This ball is ridiculous, hooping all over the place. I repeat 60 over equivalent, fuck off.
Terrible from third umpire Overton smashed that into his pad and he was obsessed by ultra edge.
That was shocking that he needed to go to ball tracking on that one. The ball went sideways off Overton's bat into his pad.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 08, 2019, 04:08:41 PM
Where’s the famous Manchester sunshine when you need it?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 04:10:18 PM
This ball changing is ridiculous. You’re telling me that this ball is equivalent to a 60 over old ball? Fuck off.
Useless fucking umpire! Obvious that the ball hit bat first onto pad!
He actually said "Is there anything other than RTS to confirm?"
How about your eyes?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 04:14:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 04:17:26 PM
This ball is ridiculous, hooping all over the place. I repeat 60 over equivalent, fuck off.
Terrible from third umpire Overton smashed that into his pad and he was obsessed by ultra edge.
That was shocking that he needed to go to ball tracking on that one. The ball went sideways off Overton's bat into his pad.
Yep it’s bloody fortunate it was outside the line.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2019, 04:30:44 PM
Sorry Paul, but I do think being 2-1 down after this match (barring a bigger miracle than Headingley) flatters us, and is not reflective of the overall difference in the teams.
They have been on top with the ball pretty much every time they have bowled. Broad has been excellent, Archer very good (except for a poor 1st innings this match), but after that we've had nothing. It's not just Smith who has done well against our change bowlers, we haven't looked like getting Labuschagne out cheaply either. You of course make a valid point about Anderson being out, but we can't put an asterisk by the whole series. The fact remains that the bowling attacks we have had haven't been as good as theirs.
I do think a lot of our players are satisfied with 40s and 50s as they know it pretty much keeps them in the team. There doesn't seem to be the hunger to go on and on that players like Trott had, Strauss had and Cook had. Look at Root, who is a technically brilliant player, but has only got 16 hundreds despite passing fifty 60 times. Root has the ability to play a lot more match defining innings than he does. He needs to have the captaincy taken away after this series and hopefully just concentrating on his batting can turn that around.
I know Australia have lost series at home (having players banned against India didn't help), and in fairness we win most at home. However, our batting malaise even at home has been going on for years.
Again, look at the stats of the series, Take the top 2 for each team out and they lose a hell of a lot more than we do. We've had a fair number of not quite good enough performances and only really Stokes who's stepped up above that, they've had Smith and to an extent Labuschange do the same. Both teams have been on top with the ball for most of the series, we had a couple of poor sessions in the first game and in this one, they had 1 last match, so on balance they've been marginally ahead with bat and ball across the series, which is reflected by the state of the series. Again, fine margins between 2 sides that are struggling with finding batsmen who can play test match innings with any regularity.
If Stokes in Leeds is masking problems (which it is) then Smith is doing the same. Most of the Australian batsmen have struggled to score anything more than about 30 as well, are they satisfied and knowing they're safe?
Final point, I've never suggested that there should be a asterisk against the series, but you seem to have suggested Aus should get one for the India series literally 2 paragraphs later. All I'm saying is that test cricket has global problems, trying to make out we're in a much worse state than anyone else isn't fair and runs the risk of us abandoning the things that are ok about our setup on the basis that everything is fucked, which isn't the case.
Post by: Chris Smith on September 08, 2019, 04:32:45 PM
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
I think this attack is better than Johnson and Harris. Less likely to blow you away with 7fer, but more relentless and consistent. And Labuschagne is clearly real class. Other than that though I do agree with your point - but I also wouldn't understate the effect of Smith. He's a monster.
If Smith was English we would be winning this series, other than him the two sides are fairly evenly matched
I'd disagree. Their bowling attack has been far more consistent throughout. Once Broad and Archer come out the attack its easy against the change bowlers.
If you take Smith out of their line up they only have one player who has averaged above 30. I agree that their bowlers are probably better overall but Smith is the one who has made the difference.
Post by: Monty on September 08, 2019, 04:53:19 PM
I’d be inclined to drop Bairtstow. He’s not delivering the bat, and he’s not the best keeper. He needs runs to keep his place.
Yep, Foakes should come in for sure. Also inclined to bring in Pope for Roy and possibly Sibley for Denley. And give Buttler the captaincy.
I'd agree on that, I think Buttler is a good captain and it would give him more justification as a speciallist batsman at 7.
The captaincy might even help with his batting. Seems to respond to pressure positively.
Gone now though, leaving an inswinger. Diligent effort but no dice today.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 05:08:33 PM
Sorry Paul, but I do think being 2-1 down after this match (barring a bigger miracle than Headingley) flatters us, and is not reflective of the overall difference in the teams.
They have been on top with the ball pretty much every time they have bowled. Broad has been excellent, Archer very good (except for a poor 1st innings this match), but after that we've had nothing. It's not just Smith who has done well against our change bowlers, we haven't looked like getting Labuschagne out cheaply either. You of course make a valid point about Anderson being out, but we can't put an asterisk by the whole series. The fact remains that the bowling attacks we have had haven't been as good as theirs.
I do think a lot of our players are satisfied with 40s and 50s as they know it pretty much keeps them in the team. There doesn't seem to be the hunger to go on and on that players like Trott had, Strauss had and Cook had. Look at Root, who is a technically brilliant player, but has only got 16 hundreds despite passing fifty 60 times. Root has the ability to play a lot more match defining innings than he does. He needs to have the captaincy taken away after this series and hopefully just concentrating on his batting can turn that around.
I know Australia have lost series at home (having players banned against India didn't help), and in fairness we win most at home. However, our batting malaise even at home has been going on for years.
Again, look at the stats of the series, Take the top 2 for each team out and they lose a hell of a lot more than we do. We've had a fair number of not quite good enough performances and only really Stokes who's stepped up above that, they've had Smith and to an extent Labuschange do the same. Both teams have been on top with the ball for most of the series, we had a couple of poor sessions in the first game and in this one, they had 1 last match, so on balance they've been marginally ahead with bat and ball across the series, which is reflected by the state of the series. Again, fine margins between 2 sides that are struggling with finding batsmen who can play test match innings with any regularity.
If Stokes in Leeds is masking problems (which it is) then Smith is doing the same. Most of the Australian batsmen have struggled to score anything more than about 30 as well, are they satisfied and knowing they're safe?
Final point, I've never suggested that there should be a asterisk against the series, but you seem to have suggested Aus should get one for the India series literally 2 paragraphs later. All I'm saying is that test cricket has global problems, trying to make out we're in a much worse state than anyone else isn't fair and runs the risk of us abandoning the things that are ok about our setup on the basis that everything is fucked, which isn't the case.
Yeah, its fair that I shouldn't have made the point about Australia having banned players against India. They were just outplayed by India having a better squad than they did at the time. Like we have been here
by a bowling attack that has been more consistent and threatening throughout. Added to a batsman who we can't get out.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 05:15:44 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 05:37:02 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
Post by: Zouch Villa on September 08, 2019, 05:48:28 PM
Post by: four fornicholl on September 08, 2019, 05:50:53 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 08, 2019, 05:51:56 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 05:54:00 PM
Not with only Broad to come though.
Post by: LeeB on September 08, 2019, 06:00:47 PM
Post by: Nev on September 08, 2019, 06:14:42 PM
Those Aussie fans all in the same get up look like a right bunch of c***s.Very few below middle age as well, I noticed that when they were in Brum. Like an antipodean Brexit Party.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 08, 2019, 06:15:48 PM
Post by: Nev on September 08, 2019, 06:16:40 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 08, 2019, 06:20:19 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 08, 2019, 06:34:26 PM
Those Aussie fans all in the same get up look like a right bunch of c***s.Yeah, stupid sport fans all wearing the same thing to the match.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 08, 2019, 06:39:20 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 08, 2019, 07:08:17 PM
Disappointing but Smith was the difference between the sides, as he has been all series. We've not once been able to get him early and plough on into the ropey middle order. Even we when just attacked the other end, eventually Siddle and Lyon stuck with him and set up the win at Edgbaston.
Agree Hilts. When you factor in Smith's form, Labuschagne's unexpected arrival on the scene and the quality of their bowling attack, it was always going to get a tall order.
Headingley aside, things just haven't really gone our way. Losing our best bowler in Anderson was a big blow and then rain intervened at Lord's when we looked like we might get a win.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2019, 09:22:06 PM
Post by: Monty on September 08, 2019, 09:29:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
However there are two very poor Test teams and one is winning because of one man.
Post by: Monty on September 08, 2019, 09:55:40 PM
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 08, 2019, 10:06:11 PM
If we're going to give such long runs in the team regardless of form lets look to the future and give these generous opportunities to Hain or Sibley or Pope, for example. Players at the start of their careers who'd benefit from the experience and could be the spine of the team for the next decade. They could hardly do any worse.
Post by: Steve67 on September 08, 2019, 10:14:52 PM
Post by: AVH87 on September 08, 2019, 10:15:40 PM
Bairstow, Roy and Buttler (despite getting some runs in this Test match) must be dropped. Root needs to give up captaincy for two reasons. He's an atrociously reactive captain and not very good at that and the impact on his batting has been terrible.
However there are two very poor Test teams and one is winning because of one man.
I'm not sure we can call Australia a poor team, they can take their pick of 3 seamers from world class options in Cummins (best bowler in the world), Hazelwood, Starc and Pattinson. They have the best batsman in the world, David Warner has been great over the years but is terrible in English conditions (against Broad mainly).
I'd say we have bigger problems given the ages of Broad and Anderson and our flaky batting options.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 08, 2019, 10:45:28 PM
Bairstow, Roy and Buttler (despite getting some runs in this Test match) must be dropped. Root needs to give up captaincy for two reasons. He's an atrociously reactive captain and not very good at that and the impact on his batting has been terrible.
However there are two very poor Test teams and one is winning because of one man.
I'm not sure we can call Australia a poor team, they can take their pick of 3 seamers from world class options in Cummins (best bowler in the world), Hazelwood, Starc and Pattinson. They have the best batsman in the world, David Warner has been great over the years but is terrible in English conditions (against Broad mainly).
I'd say we have bigger problems given the ages of Broad and Anderson and our flaky batting options.
I agree about Australia. Smith aside, their batting line up looks fragile although Labuschange looks a good find for them. Their bowling attack, however, is a very good unit even if they are missing a genuine all-rounder.
We have got to make some changes in the final test though. Bring in a new opener, shift Denly to 3, Root to 4 and give Pope a chance at 6. Like others have said I would also bring Foakes in at 7 and keeper.
Post by: Steve67 on September 08, 2019, 11:10:13 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 08, 2019, 11:22:24 PM
That said, we've competed at times but have run into a guy who's scored nearly 700 runs in three games. In all honesty, the game he missed we should have lost too.
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2019, 12:06:11 AM
Lyon is more a difference because Whilst Moeen has been solid at home for a few years he was never world class. We need to find a way to get some of our young spinners bowling a lot more deliveries in the county game they should be bowling 4-5000 deliveries a summer but someone like Leach is 28 and has 'only' bowled 16000 first class and test deliveries. Lyon is 31 and has bowled 60000. That difference in experience is massive.
What we really don't have though is a top order batsman that just takes the game away from teams, Root should be that player but he doesn't convert 50s often enough and he's getting worse since he became the captain.
On the team, I agree on Sibley coming in and I agree on Pope coming in. Foakes I'm 50/50 about. I'd consider Crawley instead (Pope or Buttler can keep wicket in that case). I like Foakes as an option but there's a couple of things about his batting which worry me and I think he might well get found out pretty quickly. I have a few concerns with Pope as well but he's younger and has by all accounts addressed many of the problems.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 09, 2019, 12:42:54 AM
Post by: OzVilla on September 09, 2019, 06:24:00 AM
This is the kind of thinking England must try and replicate for the next tour to Australia, the only time we've really done our homework was in 2010/11 which we won. Clearly we need the personnel too but the old adage of 'failure to prepare equals prepare to fail' is quite apt here.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 09, 2019, 10:08:19 AM
Only for those two matches, I don't see him as a long term solution
Then make a decision about whether Root returns as captain for the SA tour
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2019, 11:25:26 AM
Post by: Monty on September 09, 2019, 12:06:45 PM
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2019, 12:14:36 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 09, 2019, 01:17:54 PM
Excellent piece on cricinfo: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27571263/england-not-good-think-are
Can't disagree with anything said in that article.
Players have been getting away with shit performances due to reputation for way too long.
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2019, 02:22:33 PM
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2019, 02:37:18 PM
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
Did you mean you WOULDN'T recall Moeen or Anderson, as you said you would, then omitted both from your squad! ;)
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
Did you mean you WOULDN'T recall Moeen or Anderson, as you said you would, then omitted both from your squad! ;)
Ah feck sake, correct, wouldn't. I need to pay more attention rather than typing whilst also reading e-mails, stupid work getting in the way.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2019, 03:50:26 PM
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.Interesting. Who bats at 3?
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2019, 04:12:21 PM
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.Interesting. Who bats at 3?
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
Crawley, Pope or Root but preferably one of the first 2 so Root can go back to 4.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2019, 04:51:51 PM
ETA Those are the right players but we do need someone with lots of first class experience at 3. I'd be tempted to have another look at Gary Ballance. He's still only 29. 5 tons this season, nearly 1000 runs. Higher Test average than anyone currently in the Test team except Root.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
Bairstow, Roy and Buttler (despite getting some runs in this Test match) must be dropped. Root needs to give up captaincy for two reasons. He's an atrociously reactive captain and not very good at that and the impact on his batting has been terrible.
However there are two very poor Test teams and one is winning because of one man.
I do think you have a blind spot for the Aussie bowlers, they’re exceptional particularly Cummins and Hazlewood.
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2019, 05:56:42 PM
I'm not sure who those players would be though.
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2019, 06:00:24 PM
Pope's middle order. Crawley's an opener. We're going to end up with a square peg in a round hole again.
ETA Those are the right players but we do need someone with lots of first class experience at 3. I'd be tempted to have another look at Gary Ballance. He's still only 29. 5 tons this season, nearly 1000 runs. Higher Test average than anyone currently in the Test team except Root.
I'm not sure there is anyone, that's the why Root got moved up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2019, 06:07:43 PM
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2019, 06:24:50 PM
Pope's middle order. Crawley's an opener. We're going to end up with a square peg in a round hole again.
ETA Those are the right players but we do need someone with lots of first class experience at 3. I'd be tempted to have another look at Gary Ballance. He's still only 29. 5 tons this season, nearly 1000 runs. Higher Test average than anyone currently in the Test team except Root.
I'm not sure there is anyone, that's the why Root got moved up.
Exactly. Ballance has got some experience but then his last 10 test scores were:
8, 17, 1, 9, 9, 5, 20, 34, 27, 4
For an average of 13.
In his last 13 tests, he only got two scores over 50. Could be worth another go as his early form for England was great, but not the best of squads to be coming back into.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2019, 06:37:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49631592
So Root should be captain because he’s the best player and his decline in batting is just the way it is for captains.
Well Paul perhaps you would consider what Root’s value is to the side. Do we get more from him averaging 50+ or from being captain? Think I know the answer.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2019, 06:47:54 PM
Exactly. Ballance has got some experience but then his last 10 test scores were:
8, 17, 1, 9, 9, 5, 20, 34, 27, 4
For an average of 13.
In his last 13 tests, he only got two scores over 50. Could be worth another go as his early form for England was great, but not the best of squads to be coming back into.
Point taken but that was 2 years ago. I think in the absence of virtually anyone else, he's got to be worth a look at 3.
Post by: olaftab on September 09, 2019, 06:48:56 PM
I don't think Buttler warrants dropping yet. He showed that he's learning from his errors today, and that's something to build on.He is keeping his place as a specialist batsman nothing else and as such he has not delivered.n However I do concede that he is not the biggest problem in the team.
Post by: olaftab on September 09, 2019, 06:51:17 PM
Farbrace doing his usual high level of punditry:Quite. Farbrace is all things to all men. Full of bluster and zero substance whenever he speaks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49631592
So Root should be captain because he’s the best player and his decline in batting is just the way it is for captains.
Well Paul perhaps you would consider what Root’s value is to the side. Do we get more from him averaging 50+ or from being captain? Think I know the answer.
Post by: Risso on September 09, 2019, 07:43:10 PM
Exactly. Ballance has got some experience but then his last 10 test scores were:
8, 17, 1, 9, 9, 5, 20, 34, 27, 4
For an average of 13.
In his last 13 tests, he only got two scores over 50. Could be worth another go as his early form for England was great, but not the best of squads to be coming back into.
Point taken but that was 2 years ago. I think in the absence of virtually anyone else, he's got to be worth a look at 3.
Yes, that's fair enough. He couldn't be any worse than the current squad.
Post by: Steve67 on September 09, 2019, 07:44:32 PM
Farbrace doing his usual high level of punditry:Quite. Farbrace is all things to all men. Full of bluster and zero substance whenever he speaks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49631592
So Root should be captain because he’s the best player and his decline in batting is just the way it is for captains.
Well Paul perhaps you would consider what Root’s value is to the side. Do we get more from him averaging 50+ or from being captain? Think I know the answer.
What price is he for the next England Coach in that case!! I hope not. I want a world class coach.
Post by: Steve67 on September 09, 2019, 07:45:47 PM
I am really disappointed that they have gone for the same squad.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2019, 07:46:53 PM
What price is he for the next England Coach in that case!! I hope not. I want a world class coach.So do I and I'd prefer it to be someone who isn't already working for the ECB. Some fresh ideas are what's required.
Post by: tricky59 on September 09, 2019, 08:16:10 PM
Whoever it is I hope they can sort out the ECB,(England's Clueless Batsmen).What price is he for the next England Coach in that case!! I hope not. I want a world class coach.So do I and I'd prefer it to be someone who isn't already working for the ECB. Some fresh ideas are what's required.
Post by: Steve67 on September 09, 2019, 08:21:35 PM
Whoever it is I hope they can sort out the ECB,(England's Clueless Batsmen).What price is he for the next England Coach in that case!! I hope not. I want a world class coach.So do I and I'd prefer it to be someone who isn't already working for the ECB. Some fresh ideas are what's required.
Equally Clueless Bowlers.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2019, 08:41:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2019, 08:58:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2019, 09:07:01 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2019, 09:16:16 PM
Ballance is not worth a shot for me, for previous mentioned reasons. If I were calling up a previous player I’d look at Ben Duckett. He’s a talent who was called up too early.If we're talking about attitude, Duckett is a grade A dickhead.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 09, 2019, 11:48:37 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 10, 2019, 12:03:40 AM
Exactly. Ballance has got some experience but then his last 10 test scores were:
8, 17, 1, 9, 9, 5, 20, 34, 27, 4
For an average of 13.
In his last 13 tests, he only got two scores over 50. Could be worth another go as his early form for England was great, but not the best of squads to be coming back into.
Point taken but that was 2 years ago. I think in the absence of virtually anyone else, he's got to be worth a look at 3.
We'll see how the next test goes, but Denly has probably done enough to earn a spot in the short term. We need to find a new opener, so I would have Denly at 3 as a stop gap and move Root back to 4. Stokes at 5 and give Pope a chance at six (or vice versa) and then a choice between Bairstow, Buttler and Foakes at 7.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 10, 2019, 08:20:40 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Post by: Risso on September 10, 2019, 10:40:09 AM
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Convicted woman-beater.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 10, 2019, 07:18:36 PM
Think Jimmy is right on this one.
The pitches during the series have had no live grass on them at all. Think it's a combination of host counties wanting to make as much money as possible out of the test matches, and Root's pathetic blaming of the groundsman after the Ireland match persuading them into being more cautious.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 10, 2019, 07:22:19 PM
Clearly has a bit of fight about him to go along with his undoubted talent.
Post by: aev on September 11, 2019, 06:58:35 AM
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Convicted woman-beater.
I heard the R4 interview and he stated that that in France you are presumed guilty and not innocent unlike here?
Does anyone know if this is correct?
Post by: UK Redsox on September 11, 2019, 08:35:15 AM
Da Wiki
Quote
In France, article 9 of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen 1789, which has force as constitutional law, begins: "Any man being presumed innocent until he has been declared guilty ...". The Code of Criminal Procedure states in its preliminary article that "any person suspected or prosecuted is presumed innocent for as long as their guilt has not been established"[14] and the jurors' oath repeats this assertion (article 304).[29] However, there exists a popular misconception that under French law, the accused is presumed guilty until proven innocent.[30]
Post by: Risso on September 11, 2019, 09:42:40 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 11, 2019, 09:56:04 AM
I suspect that if there'd been no uproar, the award would have lead to major piss-taking from Aggers. However, I expect that the Beeb might now go for a more low key approach.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 11, 2019, 09:57:24 AM
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Convicted woman-beater.
I heard the R4 interview and he stated that that in France you are presumed guilty and not innocent unlike here?
Does anyone know if this is correct?
Pretty poor from the interviewer if they allowed Boycott's erroneous statement to go unchallenged. However, that's about standard for Radio 4 these days.
Post by: Risso on September 11, 2019, 03:38:43 PM
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Convicted woman-beater.
I heard the R4 interview and he stated that that in France you are presumed guilty and not innocent unlike here?
Does anyone know if this is correct?
Pretty poor from the interviewer if they allowed Boycott's erroneous statement to go unchallenged. However, that's about standard for Radio 4 these days.
I'm not sure I'd expect the interviewer to know the ins and outs of the French legal system in order that he could correct somebody.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 11, 2019, 04:17:14 PM
Movin' on
Roy and Overton dropped for The Oval
Curran and Woakes come in. Stokes plays as a specialst batsman
Mitch Marsh come in to replace Travis Head for the Aussies
Post by: Dr Butler on September 11, 2019, 04:22:24 PM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Villan For Life on September 11, 2019, 04:37:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 11, 2019, 04:49:55 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 11, 2019, 08:39:17 PM
Weird selections at the moment. Don’t entirely disagree with what they’ve done, but it’s a bit 90s. Overton gets one game and is dropped. They move Roy to 4, he starts to show signs of improvement and is dropped. Like I say it’s not that the specific selection for this game is wrong, but it suggests muddled thinking.
Very bowler heavy. I like Curran but he's an ordinary bowler. If the batting fails we are in the shit. I'd have brought Pope or Sibley in.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 11, 2019, 09:22:17 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 12, 2019, 10:38:16 AM
Post by: Nev on September 12, 2019, 10:48:33 AM
Post by: OzVilla on September 12, 2019, 11:41:37 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 12, 2019, 12:06:01 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 12, 2019, 12:23:17 PM
Highest opening partnership of the Test summer was 32 by Ireland
Post by: Risso on September 12, 2019, 01:09:52 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 12, 2019, 01:26:25 PM
Burns has been one of the relative bright spots of the series. Four good first innings totals now, and looks like he's developing into a proper test opener. Just needs a reliable partner now.
Agree Risso mate. Finding a new opener to partner Burns is the priority going forward. He's got out early today, but I still think Denly could be the stop gap at three for the next series or so that will allow Root to go back to four. If we can get a somewhat functioning opening partnership then we can concentrate a bit more on the three position.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 12, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 02:06:50 PM
Australia 1 wicket away from the tail.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 02:53:32 PM
Looked in good touch and just gave it away to a pie chucker
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 04:31:56 PM
We really should take advantage and be no more than 5 down for 280. Anything worse than that is crap.
Post by: Risso on September 12, 2019, 04:51:38 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 04:55:53 PM
Not moving his feet and stuck in the crease. Makes the ball look a lot better than it actually is.
Root looks shot mentally. Should have been out 3 times before he was. Captaincy has to be taken away from him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2019, 04:57:01 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 04:59:14 PM
He probably realises that another couple of years of averaging around 20 and people will start to question his place in the team.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 05:01:43 PM
This is fucking Blues again from England.
Post by: Risso on September 12, 2019, 05:02:08 PM
Bowled in the same way as he has been a few times in the series.
Not moving his feet and stuck in the crease. Makes the ball look a lot better than it actually is.
Root looks shot mentally. Should have been out 3 times before he was. Captaincy has to be taken away from him.
It moved a bit, but the way he stared and banged the pitch, you'd have thought it had hit a brick and pinged off at a right angle. You're right, he looks absolutely drained. it would almost be a kindness to relieve him of the burden.
Post by: paul_e on September 12, 2019, 05:10:26 PM
I know he's only just come into the team, but why has Curran just played his innings like its the last 5 overs of an ODI?
This is fucking Blues again from England.
That's how Curran plays and he'd normally be coming in at 8 so I have no great problem with him trying to put some quick runs on.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2019, 05:14:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 05:15:34 PM
Unfair to have too much of a go at him though. Top and middle order have played like utter ****** yet again. Would be even worse if Australia hadn't been so poor with their catching.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 12, 2019, 05:19:58 PM
I'd go
1. Burns
2. Sibley
3. ? (I'd try Ballance here but I know some of you disagree)
4. Root
5. Pope
6. Foakes / Stokes
7. Stokes / Foakes
8. Curran / Woakes
9. Archer
10. Leach
11. Broad
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on September 12, 2019, 05:25:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 12, 2019, 05:31:41 PM
For the winter tours I expect to see Crawley, Pope and Sibley in the squad along with Foakes behind the stumps. There also seems to be a H&V collective right off of Jimmy. He’s not done yet!
Post by: manic-road on September 12, 2019, 05:52:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2019, 06:04:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2019, 06:16:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2019, 07:04:32 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 12, 2019, 08:30:16 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 12, 2019, 08:34:34 PM
His injuries this year haven't been due to age or lack of fitness.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 12, 2019, 08:48:03 PM
Ask Andrew Strauss to take over as Coach. Jimmy as bowling coach.
No to both. Strauss moved into a “political” role at the ECB because he’s more suited to that kind of role rather than coaching. Plus I’d have thought that he will be preoccupied with the foundation that he started in his wife’s memory.
As Taylorsworkrate said Jimmy’s career is far from over.
I think we need separate coaches and back room staff for red and white ball cricket. I don’t think that Giles will go for that as he had a bad experience when he was white ball coach.
I’d consider Jason Gillespie or Stephen Fleming as test coach and promote Colly as white ball coach. If they want one coach then it’s betw Gillespie or Fleming.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 12, 2019, 10:47:20 PM
My top choice would be Fleming also. Usually cited as one of the most progressive coaches in the game.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 12, 2019, 11:20:14 PM
Middle order fuckery once again. They've been so poor that the top three is no longer the weak link. Stokes is not a Test number 4 and on current form Bairstow is not a number 5. Trouble is that those two plus Buttler (if he was keeping wicket) are natural number 7s for me, coming in behind 6 specialist batsmen, followed by the four bowlers. Stokes could job a job at 6 I suppose but I'd prefer him lurking at 7.
I'd go
1. Burns
2. Sibley
3. ? (I'd try Ballance here but I know some of you disagree)
4. Root
5. Pope
6. Foakes / Stokes
7. Stokes / Foakes
8. Curran / Woakes
9. Archer
10. Leach
11. Broad
Agree with that side. Came across an online interview with Mark Butcher the other day and he said someone needs to get hold of Bairstow, tell him to ditch the gloves and concentrate fully on becoming a top order batsman. Like you, I think Stokes would be more suited coming in at 6 and would plump for Foakes at 7.
I would personally keep Denly at 3 for the time being as think Root has got to go back to four. Hopefully we can find an opening partnership that works and then concentrate on trying to find a number three.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 11:11:26 AM
How the hell are we going to get Smith out on this?
Post by: Monty on September 13, 2019, 11:25:02 AM
Bright sunny day, road of a pitch.
How the hell are we going to get Smith out on this?
England, meanwhile, find new ways to get out, Buttler going pad-stumps trying to hit one at the International Space Station.
Post by: manic-road on September 13, 2019, 11:26:42 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 11:38:08 AM
Lucky to get that in fairness. If Australia weren't so generous with poor catching, it would likely have been below 250.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 11:46:38 AM
I don't think Warner was anywhere near that.
Post by: Dr Butler on September 13, 2019, 11:52:07 AM
Sorry, I think thats utter bollocks.
I don't think Warner was anywhere near that.
I'm listening to TMS and they reckoned it was nowhere near....but the Technology says otherwise...anyway it's that cheat Warner so he can fuck off. :)
UTV
The Doc
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 12:17:15 PM
I thought the Bairstow one yesterday was questionable, if you watch how much the ball swung there's no chance it was clattering middle and leg, it was probably out but i think it was clipping leg, hawkeye seemed to suggest ball was going to straighten again and I do wonder if it was because it was pad onto bat.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/11807905/bairstow-goes-lbw (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/11807905/bairstow-goes-lbw)
As I say I think it would've hit the stumps but the path just looks wrong to me and I can understand why Bairstow reviewed.
Aside from that, 2 wickets already and the ball was doing loads for Marsh so I'm not sure our score was as bad as some are suggesting, as has been the case all summer it depends on Smith, if he digs them out of a hole again then our score looks poor.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2019, 12:49:54 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 12:51:04 PM
Yes Marsh got some movement, but a competent batting line up should be able to cope with some gentle swing from the oppositions 5th bowler a hell of a lot better than we did.
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 12:54:08 PM
Curran is making Smith look a bit uncomfortable here.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 13, 2019, 01:52:30 PM
I think there needs to be a review of hawkeye, there's been 4-5 iffy ones so far.
I thought the Bairstow one yesterday was questionable, if you watch how much the ball swung there's no chance it was clattering middle and leg, it was probably out but i think it was clipping leg, hawkeye seemed to suggest ball was going to straighten again and I do wonder if it was because it was pad onto bat.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/11807905/bairstow-goes-lbw (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/11807905/bairstow-goes-lbw)
As I say I think it would've hit the stumps but the path just looks wrong to me and I can understand why Bairstow reviewed.
Aside from that, 2 wickets already and the ball was doing loads for Marsh so I'm not sure our score was as bad as some are suggesting, as has been the case all summer it depends on Smith, if he digs them out of a hole again then our score looks poor.
I agree about Bairstow's decision Paul. It swung late and I thought, with the trajectory it was on, it would have gone on to miss leg.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 13, 2019, 03:07:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 03:14:32 PM
Disappointing from Woakes again.
He's not be at his best or close to it since the first day of the series.
Maybe he has been carrying a knock, or just ineffective when there is a lack of movement. His test record abroad in flatter conditions probably suggests the latter.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 03:17:17 PM
Interesting stat that Smiths lowest score of the series is only 1 run less than Warner has got in the whole series.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 13, 2019, 03:23:04 PM
Disappointing from Woakes again.
He's not be at his best or close to it since the first day of the series.
Maybe he has been carrying a knock, or just ineffective when there is a lack of movement. His test record abroad in flatter conditions probably suggests the latter.
Yes I think it's a bit of both. He was unplayable against Ireland but since then has been mediocre at best. He's suffered more than anyone from the general lack of swing this series, which make you wonder how well Anderson would have done.
Post by: Richard on September 13, 2019, 03:33:07 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 03:34:48 PM
Disappointing from Woakes again.
He's not be at his best or close to it since the first day of the series.
Maybe he has been carrying a knock, or just ineffective when there is a lack of movement. His test record abroad in flatter conditions probably suggests the latter.
Yes I think it's a bit of both. He was unplayable against Ireland but since then has been mediocre at best. He's suffered more than anyone from the general lack of swing this series, which make you wonder how well Anderson would have done.
Anderson has become a bowler for all conditions though. He was excellent last time down under, and the very least he will offer is impeccable control when its not swinging.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 13, 2019, 03:46:14 PM
Anderson has become a bowler for all conditions though. He was excellent last time down under, and the very least he will offer is impeccable control when its not swinging.True.
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 03:47:36 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 04:27:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 04:32:19 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 13, 2019, 04:46:17 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 04:47:11 PM
With Smith the lack of pressure from the change bowlers has certainly made life easier for him once Broad and Archer have been seen off. Woakes has been below average, Stokes ordinary, Overton not test standard etc.
Big difference in the quality of those bowlers compared to Australia bringing on Pattinson, Starc or Siddle as the change bowler.
In fairness, Curran has bowled really well in this innings. If nothing else he has a bit of fight about him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2019, 04:52:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 05:12:20 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 05:17:43 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 13, 2019, 05:21:09 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 05:22:00 PM
I think the only way that would work, would be for Moeen to rediscover his best form with bat and ball. At the moment that would seem a bit fanciful.
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 05:24:12 PM
Post by: manic-road on September 13, 2019, 05:27:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 05:27:27 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2019, 05:29:58 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 13, 2019, 05:35:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2019, 05:36:16 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 13, 2019, 05:36:31 PM
Steve Smith has now scored 751 runs at an average of 125.16 and has batted 1,854 minutes, just short of 31 hours.OK bit still wouldn’t pay money to watch his ugly batting but would love him to be in my side.
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 05:42:20 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 05:46:29 PM
I'm not sure, was our batting performance as bad as is being suggested? We had a collapse in the middle order but so have they and in both cases a swing bowler with an ageing ball has done a lot of damage. I know the shots look poor but I wonder if there's something in the pitch which is making it harder to judge than it appears on the TV, particularly for people who aren't in great form.
There we go, Strauss has just made the same point and highlighted it with a graphic showing the delivery for the Smith wicket went through a lot lower than others on the same length.
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2019, 06:04:01 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 13, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 06:06:35 PM
Besides the first innings at Old Trafford he has been outstanding.
The only thing I can think with the pitch is once the ball becomes a bit softer its getting a little two paced. Both teams scored at a good rate without losing wickets up to around the hundred mark, but struggled after.
Still don't think the scores reflect the conditions though. Some poor batting and quality bowling from both teams this match.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 06:08:43 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 13, 2019, 06:12:24 PM
I’m gutted that the Ashes have gone so I’m seeking solace in preventing the Aussies from winning the series. They’ve not won here since 2001 so I’d like that record to remain.
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 06:12:24 PM
The bowling by Archer since tea has been special though, give him a year or 2 and I'd have money on him being the number one bowler in the world.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 13, 2019, 06:16:13 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 06:23:23 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 13, 2019, 06:36:24 PM
Denly got a big life thanks to a dolly of a drop from Harris too. Interesting 15 minutes that was.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 13, 2019, 06:48:44 PM
If we can bat well tomorrow then a lead of 250 plus will be a tough ask for them. 250 is a minimum but I’d like 300 plus*
* Yes I know
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2019, 07:04:33 PM
What on earth was that decision from Dharmasena? Clearly pitching outside leg and probably going over the top by half a metre. Really poor decision.
Denly got a big life thanks to a dolly of a drop from Harris too. Interesting 15 minutes that was.
Looked a nasty little injury from that missed catch as well, that'll hurt later.
That was an eventful few overs and we negotiated them without losing a wicket.
If we can bat well tomorrow then a lead of 250 plus will be a tough ask for them. 250 is a minimum but I’d like 300 plus*
* Yes I know
250 means 1 big partnership really, Burns has proven tough to get out and then Root and Stokes have been getting a few runs fairly consistently. I suspect we'll end up with a 270-300 lead (unless someone does something special). I think that will be a very difficult total to chase.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2019, 07:06:42 PM
Post by: manic-road on September 14, 2019, 08:28:00 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 14, 2019, 11:56:30 AM
Post by: paul_e on September 14, 2019, 12:12:13 PM
Post by: Monty on September 14, 2019, 12:40:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 14, 2019, 12:44:56 PM
He's generally put a higher price on his wicket than the other batsmen.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 14, 2019, 12:50:54 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 14, 2019, 12:55:54 PM
Next time he bats he shouldn't have the captaincy weighing him down. They need to make tha change.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 14, 2019, 02:17:34 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 14, 2019, 02:19:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 14, 2019, 02:31:25 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 14, 2019, 03:47:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 14, 2019, 04:22:33 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on September 14, 2019, 04:32:40 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 14, 2019, 04:35:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 14, 2019, 04:36:00 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 14, 2019, 04:40:14 PM
Need to be a little careful we don't collapse yet again. We don't have an insurmountable total by any means at this point.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 14, 2019, 04:55:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 14, 2019, 04:59:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 14, 2019, 05:43:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 14, 2019, 05:56:55 PM
Post by: Monty on September 14, 2019, 06:06:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 14, 2019, 06:11:08 PM
Great catch
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 14, 2019, 06:15:07 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 14, 2019, 06:26:35 PM
Buttler has ended this series well. Bairstow is massively under pressure now.
The thing is that he probably isn't under any pressure. His Test match performance has been woeful for the best part of 2 years now and theres been no real questions asked regarding his place
Post by: Rory on September 14, 2019, 07:37:09 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 14, 2019, 07:55:15 PM
Post by: Rory on September 14, 2019, 08:23:58 PM
I was happy once we hit 350. There's a reason that 350+ has only been chased a handful of times in history.
If they didn't have Smith, I'd agree. I just don't trust him not to hit 300 on his own.
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 14, 2019, 10:36:24 PM
I was happy once we hit 350. There's a reason that 350+ has only been chased a handful of times in history.
If they didn't have Smith, I'd agree. I just don't trust him not to hit 300 on his own.
Yeah if the buggers didn't have Smith...........
Post by: Steve67 on September 14, 2019, 10:40:08 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 09:04:14 AM
Post by: Steve67 on September 15, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
Post by: Risso on September 15, 2019, 11:43:31 AM
I think Jofra Archer may be destined for the number 11 spot. I know it's early in his career but I see nothing in him worth putting him further up the order as yet. This tail has to wag a bit. Need a 400 hundred lead. Even if it's just for psychology.
I think you're right. He just hasn't seemed to suss what's required at Test level yet. Mind you, you can say that about half the team this series.
And yes, a 400 lead would have seemed a better psychological barrier than the 399 we got.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 15, 2019, 11:51:53 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 15, 2019, 11:59:49 AM
Post by: Steve67 on September 15, 2019, 12:08:27 PM
Post by: Nev on September 15, 2019, 12:57:23 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on September 15, 2019, 01:17:55 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 01:54:35 PM
I think that once they retained the Ashes they were mentally on the plane home so I expect us to win this test quite comfortably.
Nah, don't buy that at all. Monumental difference in merely retaining the Ashes and Australia actually winning a series in England for the 1st time in 18 years. They would have been well up for this.
Post by: Risso on September 15, 2019, 01:57:37 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 02:01:57 PM
I think that once they retained the Ashes they were mentally on the plane home so I expect us to win this test quite comfortably.
Nah, don't buy that at all. Monumental difference in merely retaining the Ashes and Australia actually winning a series in England for the 1st time in 18 years. They would have been well up for this.
I think that collectively they’re well down on their standards from the last test.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 15, 2019, 02:02:10 PM
I'm sure that's what they say and most probably believe it but I'd be amazed if they hadn't dropped the intensity a little, subconsciously, with the Ashes safe. They dropped five catches in the first innings.I think that once they retained the Ashes they were mentally on the plane home so I expect us to win this test quite comfortably.
Nah, don't buy that at all. Monumental difference in merely retaining the Ashes and Australia actually winning a series in England for the 1st time in 18 years. They would have been well up for this.
Post by: Steve67 on September 15, 2019, 02:05:11 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 15, 2019, 02:05:47 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 02:06:23 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 15, 2019, 02:06:38 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 02:08:37 PM
Actually winning a series in England, after such a long time would be crucial for them to achieve. Lose this match, and they will be reminded in 2023 that they haven't won a series in England in 22 years.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 02:12:04 PM
There performance has dropped, but I just cannot have it that it's due to a lack of intensity or because the ashes have been retained. What it may be, is that they did bowl a lot of overs, over the last couple of days at Old Trafford, and then bowled straight away at the Oval, so physical fatigue may have set in a little. We were definitely helped by a poor decision by Paine to bowl first in this match.
Actually winning a series in England, after such a long time would be crucial for them to achieve. Lose this match, and they will be reminded in 2023 that they haven't won a series in England in 22 years.
They were interviewing an Aussie journalist on TMS at lunchtime, it may have been Gideon Haigh. He was saying that despite retaining the urn, they’re getting some negative press in Australia. Paine in particular is getting some major criticism.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 02:16:04 PM
He's been lucky to have the best batsman in the world in his very best form, and an outstanding set of bowlers at the top of their game too.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 02:27:27 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 15, 2019, 02:30:05 PM
Surely part of his boot was touching the line there?Has to be something behind the line.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 02:30:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 02:46:53 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 15, 2019, 03:35:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 15, 2019, 04:15:21 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 15, 2019, 04:46:35 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 15, 2019, 05:52:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 06:04:14 PM
Now can we get two wickets tonight before the light ends play before they claim the extra half hour?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 15, 2019, 06:04:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 06:12:03 PM
Post by: Nev on September 15, 2019, 06:13:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 06:15:34 PM
I do feel better about it all than I did last week. There's plenty wrong but plenty to look back on and be pleased. And as Botham just said.....18 years.
By the time they come back it will be 22 years, they will hate that.
I’m still gutted that we didn’t regain the Ashes though.
Post by: Villa Lew on September 15, 2019, 06:18:42 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 06:21:21 PM
Post by: thick_mike on September 15, 2019, 06:21:49 PM
Post by: Villafirst on September 15, 2019, 06:25:35 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on September 15, 2019, 06:28:07 PM
2-2 is probably about right - after all if Lord's hadn't been so weather affected we'd probably have won there. Stokes' brilliant rescue act at Headingley notwithstanding, Smith was the difference between the two sides and his absence in that Test probably is the reason they haven't won the urn outright.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 06:29:50 PM
Post by: Nev on September 15, 2019, 06:31:22 PM
Let's hope TMS continues to resist such claptrap.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2019, 06:39:54 PM
It depends who they replace Gower and Botham with. Gower is one of a dying breed, calm, understated, knowledgeable and literate. I'm not so keen on Botham but one only has to listen 5Live lately to fear that noise, hyperbole, barking ignorance and worst of all, banter are on the agenda.
Let's hope TMS continues to resist such claptrap.
Atherton and Hussain offer much more insight than Gower or Botham. Have you noticed that neither Botham or Gower never did the third man/analyst role in the commentary box? That suggests that they weren’t prepared to move with the times.
I like Ian Ward and think that he’s a natural replacement for Gower. I think Holding is leaving too which will leave a huge hole. However they have some great “pundits”, Warne and Ponting have been brilliant.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 15, 2019, 06:52:17 PM
Gower did do a little bit of third man this game, but in the main you're right. He and, especially, Botham are not natural analysts or deep thinkers about the game. Atherton and Hussian are the two gems in that commentary box, although Ponting has also been great to listen to this summer, he always spots something. Warne and Bumble have both become boring.It depends who they replace Gower and Botham with. Gower is one of a dying breed, calm, understated, knowledgeable and literate. I'm not so keen on Botham but one only has to listen 5Live lately to fear that noise, hyperbole, barking ignorance and worst of all, banter are on the agenda.
Let's hope TMS continues to resist such claptrap.
Atherton and Hussain offer much more insight than Gower or Botham. Have you noticed that neither Botham or Gower never did the third man/analyst role in the commentary box? That suggests that they weren’t prepared to move with the times.
I like Ian Ward and think that he’s a natural replacement for Gower. I think Holding is leaving too which will leave a huge hole. However they have some great “pundits”, Warne and Ponting have been brilliant.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 15, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
Lots of deficiencies in the Test set up that need addressing, but a drawn Ashes series to put alongside the World Cup is a pretty decent international summer when you consider some of the dross served up in the late 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s.
2-2 is probably about right - after all if Lord's hadn't been so weather affected we'd probably have won there. Stokes' brilliant rescue act at Headingley notwithstanding, Smith was the difference between the two sides and his absence in that Test probably is the reason they haven't won the urn outright.
Agree with this summary. I hope the fact that we have managed to salvage a draw doesn't mean we paper over the cracks and pretend everything is fine. We need to rethink our approach to test cricket and have done for some time.
Hopefully Burns can really kick on from here and become an established test opener and that we can find him a suitably reliable partner. Denly has done enough for me to keep his place for the time being, but I would move him to three which will allow Root to go back to his favoured position at four. Similarly, I would move Stokes down to six and bring in another front line batsman at five, which could be Pope. It would then be a straight choice between Bairstow, Buttler and Foakes for the keeper spot at seven.
The bowling depends on how long Broad and Anderson go on for I suppose. Those two with Archer looks our first choice attack at the moment and Leach has probably done enough this series, though an in form Moeen Ali would provide better balance at 8.
Post by: Nev on September 15, 2019, 06:59:27 PM
I hope it doesn't end up like the 20/20 coverage, particularly finals day which is not my sort of thing at all.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 07:03:50 PM
The problem does come as people say, with Leach also, it would make a very long tail. If Moeen could rediscover his very best form then that solves the issue.
That feels a bit fanciful at present though.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 07:08:35 PM
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Stokes
Moeen
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson
That would be my team for the first test of the New Zealand series. There are no test championship points at play, so an opportunity to give the likes of Sibley, Crawley and Pope a real chance. Obviously the Moeen selection depends a lot on his latter season form and state of mind.
Edit. Just realised there is no keeper in this team! Maybe Buttler for Curran and move Moeen down to 8
Post by: Lsvilla on September 15, 2019, 07:09:30 PM
I agree on Ward, gutted that Holding is leaving, his lagubriuos, laid back style perfectly compliments the more enthusiastic contributions from the Australians. I don't mind Ponting but Warne annoys me a bit for no obvious reason.
I hope it doesn't end up like the 20/20 coverage, particularly finals day which is not my sort of thing at all.
Is Holding definitely leaving ? Sure he mentioned that he was going to be in South Africa this winter.
Post by: paul_e on September 15, 2019, 07:34:51 PM
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Stokes
Moeen
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson
That would be my team for the first test of the New Zealand series. There are no test championship points at play, so an opportunity to give the likes of Sibley, Crawley and Pope a real chance. Obviously the Moeen selection depends a lot on his latter season form and state of mind.
Edit. Just realised there is no keeper in this team! Maybe Buttler for Curran and move Moeen down to 8
Pope has played keeper a fair bit.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 15, 2019, 07:58:47 PM
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Stokes
Moeen
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson
That would be my team for the first test of the New Zealand series. There are no test championship points at play, so an opportunity to give the likes of Sibley, Crawley and Pope a real chance. Obviously the Moeen selection depends a lot on his latter season form and state of mind.
Edit. Just realised there is no keeper in this team! Maybe Buttler for Curran and move Moeen down to 8
Pope has played keeper a fair bit.
He has, but probably should be allowed to concentrate on his batting if selected and not burden him with the gloves. Buttler, Bairstow or Foakes is a pretty healthy trio of options for the keeper / 7 spot.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 08:08:26 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 15, 2019, 08:34:48 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 08:39:58 PM
Pleasing not to have lost the series but this Aussie side, Smith apart, has been rescued by their bowling and England's frailty with the bat. A really enjoyable series to watch, although neither side reaches the heights of sides gone by. Burns and Denly seem to be settling and should keep their places squadwise. I hope that someone gets hold of Archer and makes him a more ruthless and hungry bowler. Hopefully, Wood and Stone are fit to select for the NZ tour.
Archer, Wood and Stone all fully fit and firing would be an exciting proposition. Unfortunately both Wood and Stone appear to be held together by sticky tape.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 15, 2019, 08:48:28 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 15, 2019, 09:07:21 PM
I know BBC are showing the Hundred but who's showing the home test highlights from next year?
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 15, 2019, 09:23:25 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 15, 2019, 09:27:39 PM
Gigantic waste of time which will only further hurt the county game and our test prospects.
Post by: TopDeck113 on September 15, 2019, 09:38:18 PM
Post by: Nev on September 15, 2019, 09:49:02 PM
Didn't realise Channel 5 highlights are also ending....I like that team of Mark Nicholas, Vaughan and Sir Geo...... sorry Boycott.
I know BBC are showing the Hundred but who's showing the home test highlights from next year?
Whatever channel gets the highlights doesn't make that much difference, the same broadcasters tend to be employed again. As for the Hundred, it's just bloody mindedness from the ECB to persist in the face of such opposition from within the game. This summer has been a perfect example why it isn't needed.
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 15, 2019, 09:55:49 PM
Post by: Richard E on September 15, 2019, 10:23:38 PM
I'm struggling to conceive of anything that English cricket needs less right now than The Hundred. Blindfolds for batsmen maybe? Alcoholic drinks breaks?
Bowling with live grenades?
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 15, 2019, 10:45:18 PM
Post by: Risso on September 15, 2019, 11:10:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 15, 2019, 11:15:00 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 15, 2019, 11:49:22 PM
The Hundred strikes me as being as much use to the county championship and England Test team as the Atari Soccer Sixes were to the League Championship and England football team in the 80s. I mean, Blues won it which shows how unlikely it was to impact the pinnacle of the game.
I think they've got review the domestic structure entirely and think the four day game has to be put at the forefront. I can't see why the County Championship cannot run throughout the season on a Monday - Thursday basis. That then gives weekends for the limited overs stuff. The T20 fixtures seemed to be Friday night / Sunday afternoon double headers in the main this season (well for the Bears anyway) and that seemed to work quite well.
The whole Hundred thing has to be scheduled at a time in the season when the top English players can play in it or I just don't see the point of adding it alongside the current T20 competition. It seems a bit of a fudge really as the ECB clearly see this as the way they want to go, but then have to also allow the counties to keep their main attraction.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on September 16, 2019, 10:35:34 AM
I also managed a Lunch meet up with our own Richard Whitehead ( he's an editor at Wisden so was there in a sober, professional capacity). He had some fantastic - and mainly unrepeatable - stories to tell. Although I've forgotten most of them now anyway
Post by: UK Redsox on September 16, 2019, 11:03:11 AM
I'd definitely rather watch Monkey Cricket than The shitty Hundred.
I'll watch it but I'm not happy about it. An unnecessary competition.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 16, 2019, 11:07:30 AM
Ian Ward is the obvious heir to Gower's role, although I prefer Nick Knight.
Hopefully Mark Butcher will be promoted from the domestic coverage and that we'll see more of Kumar Sangakkara.
I know that he's not everyone's cup of tea, but I quite like Rob Key as well.
Post by: Monty on September 16, 2019, 11:16:00 AM
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2019, 11:47:39 AM
Holding is a massive loss, he's probably my favourite of the lot, clearly knows what he's talking about, has loads of great stories when the game goes quiet and has pretty much the perfect voice for a cricket commentator. He's been my favourite thing about watching cricket for years and I suspect he'll be impossible to properly replace.
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2019, 11:59:40 AM
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 16, 2019, 12:12:07 PM
I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
I've said this before, but he seems a contradictory character. On the surface he's indeed boorish, the sort of "I can do whatever I like but God help the little woman if she so much as looks at another man and my dinner better be ready when I get home" dinosaur that thought Alf Garnett was the greatest comic creation of all time and believed civilization ended on New Year's Eve 1979. But, he walked out of Somerset when his mate Viv was being abused, refused to play in South Africa and the charidee work he does can't be knocked at all.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 16, 2019, 12:18:20 PM
He walked out of Somerset because the board thought Viv and Joel Garner were under-performing on big money and they wanted to bring in Martin Crowe. The skipper Peter Roebuck sided with the board and it all went tits up. Botham quit in solidarity but not before pinning a 'Judas' sign on Roebuck's locker. It's fair to say Botham has a 'my way or the highway' approach to life.I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
I've said this before, but he seems a contradictory character. On the surface he's indeed boorish, the sort of "I can do whatever I like but God help the little woman if she so much as looks at another man and my dinner better be ready when I get home" dinosaur that thought Alf Garnett was the greatest comic creation of all time and believed civilization ended on New Year's Eve 1979. But, he walked out of Somerset when his mate Viv was being abused, refused to play in South Africa and the charidee work he does can't be knocked at all.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 16, 2019, 12:45:55 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 16, 2019, 03:45:25 PM
I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
His insight is very one-dimensional, but we saw him on a speaking tour about 20 years ago and he was very funny (unless, of course, you're a Geoff Boycott fasn).
Post by: Villan For Life on September 16, 2019, 03:51:51 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 18, 2019, 12:33:14 AM
I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
His insight is very one-dimensional, but we saw him on a speaking tour about 20 years ago and he was very funny (unless, of course, you're a Geoff Boycott fasn).
I think he is one of those sportspeople who was so talented that they didn't really have to think too much about what they were doing as it came so instinctively and naturally to them. Therefore, he doesn't really offer much in the way of tactical insight and probably can't see why players can't just go out and smash the ball around and bowl like he did.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 23, 2019, 03:59:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 23, 2019, 04:10:08 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 24, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
Experimental squad for NZ, Bairstow dropped for Tests. I’m surprised Foakes isn’t in.
I've only just noticed this. I hadn't seen Foakes mentioned in the reports I'd read but just assumed that he was going as the second keeper.
Pope to take the gloves if needed
Post by: Steve67 on September 24, 2019, 07:33:12 PM
Post by: Colhint on September 27, 2019, 09:21:11 PM
So long Sarah hope you get better.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 27, 2019, 09:34:24 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 07, 2019, 10:11:24 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on October 07, 2019, 12:37:24 PM
Sarah Taylor has retired from International cricket. She has suffered a lot with anxiety issues over the last few years. Big loss for England. Second highest England run scorer, Played in the Australian version of division two for a mens team. And regarded by many male Internationals and pundits as the best keeper in the world either sex. Regarded by all who play womens cricket as the best keeper ever.
So long Sarah hope you get better.
Albeit with the rider that she's not been tested at the highest level against male pace, I'd agree with that. Some of her leg-side stumpings were phenomenal, and I love this catch:
Post by: UK Redsox on October 24, 2019, 11:56:32 AM
https://www.t20worldcup.com/standings
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 27, 2019, 06:53:52 PM
Summary:
Papua New Guinea and Ireland qualify. .
In the Playoffs:
Netherlands play UAE
Oman play Namibia
Winner of each of those qualifies
Loser of Netherlands/UAE plays Scotland
Loser of Oman/Namibia plays Hong Kong
Winner of each of those qualifies. Loser doesn't.
Post by: olaftab on October 27, 2019, 07:02:09 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 29, 2019, 07:31:31 PM
The two final spots will be decided tomorrow when hosts UAE face Scotland and Oman, who have lost successive matches that would have seen them qualify, have one final chance against Hong Kong.
Post by: spangley1812 on October 29, 2019, 09:51:56 PM
The 32-year-old accepted three charges relating to requests for "inside information for betting purposes".
The approaches came during an international tri-series also involving Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in January 2018, and that year's Indian Premier League.
Shakib is the top all-rounder in the one-day international rankings and has played 338 matches for Bangladesh.
He was the third-highest run-scorer in the 2019 Cricket World Cup and hit two hundreds, including against England in Cardiff in the group stage.
One year of Shakib's ban is suspended and he will be able to return to the sport on 29 October 2020.
"Those who have supported me over the years I hope they, the fans, Bangladesh Cricket Board, the government, the journalists will continue to support me in my bad and good time," said Shakib after his ban was announced.
"If you continue your support, I am hopeful I will come back to cricket soon. I will be stronger and will perform my responsibilities with more sincerity."
Shakib told the anti-corruption unit of the International Cricket Council (ICC) he "did not act upon", "provide any information" or "receive any money or other reward" for the approaches.
He has been punished for failing to disclose "full details of any approaches or invitations received to engage in corrupt conduct", a statement from the governing body said.
"I am obviously extremely sad to have been banned from the game I love, but I completely accept my sanction for not reporting the approaches," said Shakib, who is also Bangladesh's Twenty20 captain.
Alex Marshall, the general manager of the ICC's anti-corruption unit, said: "Shakib Al Hasan is a highly experienced international cricketer. He has attended many education sessions and knows his obligations under the code.
"He should have reported each of these approaches."
Last week, Shakib led a strike by Bangladesh's players which was soon called off after the Bangladesh Cricket Board agreed to most of their demands for better pay and improved facilities.
He has been replaced as Test captain by Mominul Haque and as T20 skipper by Mahmudullah.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 30, 2019, 01:28:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 08, 2019, 07:08:09 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 10, 2019, 12:03:36 AM
I like Malan and I’d like to see him back in the Test squad.
Didn't know he had that kind of hitting in his picket to be honest Paul. Could see him possibly doing a job at number 5 in test cricket, though might prefer Pope to get a chance first.
Post by: manic-road on November 12, 2019, 07:37:59 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 13, 2019, 12:02:52 AM
Nice knocks from Sibley and Crawley in England's warm up game.
Line up has a good look to it to be honest. Looks well balanced and a good mixture of experience and youth.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 14, 2019, 10:38:41 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 14, 2019, 11:05:40 PM
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
I think there’s no doubt that Jimmy will get back into the test team, looking at the current line up he would replace Curran. I expect to see a fit again Jimmy opening the bowling on Boxing Day at Centurion.
Curran is the future but I think that for now, if he stays fit then he will continue until the end of the next Ashes series in 2021/2022. He reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, a natural athlete with longevity.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 15, 2019, 11:08:10 PM
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
I think there’s no doubt that Jimmy will get back into the test team, looking at the current line up he would replace Curran. I expect to see a fit again Jimmy opening the bowling on Boxing Day at Centurion.
Curran is the future but I think that for now, if he stays fit then he will continue until the end of the next Ashes series in 2021/2022. He reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, a natural athlete with longevity.
Agree Jimmy plays when fit, but taking Curran or Woakes out makes the tail quite long. Having Woakes or Curran at 8 does give a good balance to the side, but I suppose you have to put trust that the top 7 can score runs on a regular basis.
Post by: paul_e on November 21, 2019, 08:16:02 AM
With Stokes in a strong position and a few capable batsmen to come I think 400+ is on here if we're sensible for the first half hour or so tonight.
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 21, 2019, 08:45:04 AM
Post by: simboy on November 21, 2019, 09:21:45 AM
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
I think there’s no doubt that Jimmy will get back into the test team, looking at the current line up he would replace Curran. I expect to see a fit again Jimmy opening the bowling on Boxing Day at Centurion.
Curran is the future but I think that for now, if he stays fit then he will continue until the end of the next Ashes series in 2021/2022. He reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, a natural athlete with longevity.
Agree Jimmy plays when fit, but taking Curran or Woakes out makes the tail quite long. Having Woakes or Curran at 8 does give a good balance to the side, but I suppose you have to put trust that the top 7 can score runs on a regular basis.
I heard Root say that the England management are speaking to Mo Ali about a return to the test team. If you take out Leech for Ali, Anderson's return for Curran works. Appreciate Leach has reached almost cult status but from what I saw over the summer i would be very surprised if he ripped a team apart bowling-wise and if Ali has sorted himself out mentally then it would be a good move.
Disappointed to see Curran picked ahead of Woakes for this test. I would guess Pope and Bairstow are fighting for the number six spot, as Denley seems to be growing into the number 3 role.
Waking up to a score of 400 tomorrow would be very pleasing.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 21, 2019, 12:10:07 PM
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
I think there’s no doubt that Jimmy will get back into the test team, looking at the current line up he would replace Curran. I expect to see a fit again Jimmy opening the bowling on Boxing Day at Centurion.
Curran is the future but I think that for now, if he stays fit then he will continue until the end of the next Ashes series in 2021/2022. He reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, a natural athlete with longevity.
Agree Jimmy plays when fit, but taking Curran or Woakes out makes the tail quite long. Having Woakes or Curran at 8 does give a good balance to the side, but I suppose you have to put trust that the top 7 can score runs on a regular basis.
I heard Root say that the England management are speaking to Mo Ali about a return to the test team. If you take out Leech for Ali, Anderson's return for Curran works. Appreciate Leach has reached almost cult status but from what I saw over the summer i would be very surprised if he ripped a team apart bowling-wise and if Ali has sorted himself out mentally then it would be a good move.
Disappointed to see Curran picked ahead of Woakes for this test. I would guess Pope and Bairstow are fighting for the number six spot, as Denley seems to be growing into the number 3 role.
Waking up to a score of 400 tomorrow would be very pleasing.
Agree that if Ali can return to form with bat and ball, then he comes in at 8 and that makes room for Anderson to return.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 21, 2019, 05:24:01 PM
Bit of a boring run rate. What happened to the England of the 2000s that would try to get 350-400 on the first day when they were on top?
I've just finished watching the whole day (recorded). The pitch is dead flat, the ball barely swung for a few overs, and didn't come on to the bat well. All four wickets were from poor shots, and apart from bits of the last session, when Denly, Stokes and Pope gave it a bit of a biff I was tempted to watch on fast forward.
Still, a good position to be in, it's a five day match etc. and so forth, but judging by comments by Silverwood this represents a new approach to Test cricket (again hard to argue with if it wins games).
Post by: Steve67 on November 21, 2019, 10:32:45 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 21, 2019, 10:47:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 21, 2019, 11:07:03 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 21, 2019, 11:07:31 PM
Post by: Steve67 on November 21, 2019, 11:14:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 22, 2019, 07:25:59 PM
Post by: Villafirst on November 22, 2019, 10:29:05 PM
Post by: Rory on November 23, 2019, 02:15:39 AM
Post by: Rory on November 23, 2019, 02:43:11 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 23, 2019, 06:45:32 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 23, 2019, 07:02:06 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 23, 2019, 09:33:30 AM
We’re going to have to hit them hard in the morning.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 23, 2019, 09:34:37 AM
Post by: Risso on November 23, 2019, 09:38:28 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 23, 2019, 07:29:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 23, 2019, 11:45:31 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 23, 2019, 11:59:05 PM
There’s not a lot here, but equally why isn’t Archer bowling the new ball first up? There’s no excuse for England to get rolled here.
Is he going to be an opener though Paul? Broad and Anderson will be the opening partnership when the latter is fit again and the likes of Curran and Woakes are going to have to open in away conditions to get whatever swing there may be early up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 24, 2019, 08:39:00 AM
Poor captaincy, careless with the bat, lacking intensity, average fielding and flat bowling. Really really poor.
On the Archer point Tom, I’m a firm believer that you give your best bowlers the best opportunity with the ball. Now there’s a caveat there, that we need Archer to bowl quick and I feel Root is using him badly at the moment. But basically, and I like them both, but if Woakes and Curran can’t find a way to be a useful 3rd/4th seamer abroad without using the new ball then they shouldn’t play.
Post by: Lsvilla on November 24, 2019, 09:03:02 AM
I’m jealous LS, watching a Test in NZ is on my bucket list. That ground looks just lovely.Sorry only just seen this - it is an impressive set up and they seem to do most stuff right here eg: free in tomorrow / hardly any queues for beer or food and players happy to stop and chat.
Although the rest of my post hasn’t aged well ! Do well to avoid a loss tomorrow.
Post by: olaftab on November 24, 2019, 09:32:56 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 24, 2019, 09:35:42 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 24, 2019, 09:42:30 AM
On cricket another poor day however time for Root to save this Test match tomorrow. If he can't do that on a still fairly flat wicket than there is no point in him carrying on in either capacity.
How many times has this happened in recent years - we bat first and struggle to get a modest total. The opposition then get a massive score on what looks like a road of a pitch, only for us to then get rolled out for a low total on the 4th / 5th day on the exact same pitch that looked dead when we were bowling on it.
Post by: Villafirst on November 24, 2019, 10:43:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 24, 2019, 01:43:43 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 24, 2019, 04:17:50 PM
Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
Post by: Rory on November 24, 2019, 09:32:17 PM
I’m not sure what’s happened to Root in the last few years. I look at the way Smith, Williamson, and Kohli, who’s just gone to 41 centuries, have kicked on and Joe has gone backwards if anything. It’s strange.
Kohli and Williamson are the two best batsmen in the world by far, for me. I enjoy watching them bat and they are pure class and technique all the way.
Smith is a more interesting one and I absolutely agree that there is no reason Root should be lagging so far behind him. The only thing I can think is it's a question of grit and desire. I don't think he's as good as we like to think he is, but he is a far more accomplished batsman than Smith.
For me, he doesn't bring much as captain (as, say, Strauss or Vaughan did once their batting dropped off) so he needs to perform with the bat. He's much more important to the team as a bat than a leader, and we really need his runs more than anything.
Post by: paul_e on November 24, 2019, 10:56:21 PM
Post by: Risso on November 24, 2019, 11:04:42 PM
Post by: Risso on November 24, 2019, 11:06:12 PM
Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
It's like a school playing field with people sat on the banks on deck chairs! I've seen village greens with more facilities than that.
Post by: aj2k77 on November 24, 2019, 11:12:52 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 24, 2019, 11:20:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 24, 2019, 11:51:44 PM
Post by: OzVilla on November 25, 2019, 04:08:45 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 25, 2019, 05:40:41 AM
Full bar and catering facilities with zero queues for 5 days. A live band and big screen in the food court area for those wishing to escape another England batting collapse. Clean and plentiful toilets. Access to the pitch every lunchtime to stroll around and get a close up of the wicket. Kids allowed on the outfield with bat and ball. Allowed to walk on the pitch itself post match. Free sunscreen at any time. £15 per day and free today. Give me that over a soulless concrete stadium / pissed up groups throwing beer to make snakes / queuing for a drink of over-priced lager any day of the week.Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
It's like a school playing field with people sat on the banks on deck chairs! I've seen village greens with more facilities than that.
Post by: JD on November 25, 2019, 06:09:59 AM
I often go to Hagley Oval to watch games and have been to international in Wellington (The Basin), Nelson and Queenstown. All great grounds, as is the Bay Oval and McLean Park in Napier.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 25, 2019, 06:33:04 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 25, 2019, 08:50:42 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on November 25, 2019, 10:13:26 AM
Full bar and catering facilities with zero queues for 5 days. A live band and big screen in the food court area for those wishing to escape another England batting collapse. Clean and plentiful toilets. Access to the pitch every lunchtime to stroll around and get a close up of the wicket. Kids allowed on the outfield with bat and ball. Allowed to walk on the pitch itself post match. Free sunscreen at any time. £15 per day and free today. Give me that over a soulless concrete stadium / pissed up groups throwing beer to make snakes / queuing for a drink of over-priced lager any day of the week.Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
It's like a school playing field with people sat on the banks on deck chairs! I've seen village greens with more facilities than that.
It looked fine to me on the TV.
The thing that puts me off watching international cricket in person is the inane chanting of the very annoying Barmy Army types (even more noticeable in smaller crowds) and mostly Billy* and his fecking trumpet
* I assume that it was Billy, or is there more than one annoying trumpet player ?
Post by: paul_e on November 25, 2019, 10:39:31 AM
As I said, a mystery injury so they can rest him for the next game would really help the team right now I think.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 28, 2019, 12:56:56 PM
Pope to keep wicket if necessary
Crawley or Woakes would probably play
Post by: paul_e on November 28, 2019, 02:20:33 PM
Buttler doubtful for the 2nd Test
Pope to keep wicket if necessary
Crawley or Woakes would probably play
I'd bring Crawley in and then bring Woakes in for either Broad or Leach, depending on how likely there is to be spin, both of them were desperately poor in the first test but I'm not sure we can justify 6 bowlers to 'hide' them. Root needs to learn how to use Archer better as well.
Post by: simboy on November 28, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Crawley in for Buttler makes sense and i would probably drop either Broad or Curran playing Woakes instead. Leach might at least offer some semblance of control .... did I really say that!
Post by: tomd2103 on November 28, 2019, 03:25:54 PM
Foakes, Bairstow and Buttler all keepers of international class who have scored Test match 100's yet we are going into a test match with a keeper that hat has never taken a first class stumping. Not a brilliant piece of planning by England management I suggest. Good job the pitch is unlikely to turn.
Crawley in for Buttler makes sense and i would probably drop either Broad or Curran playing Woakes instead. Leach might at least offer some semblance of control .... did I really say that!
Do not understand the decision not to take a reserve keeper, especially as we have plenty of quality options who could also probably play as batsmen if needed.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 28, 2019, 06:31:44 PM
Post by: tricky59 on November 28, 2019, 06:57:02 PM
I don’t get why Foakes isn’t there.As he is clearly our best keeper/batsman it must be something else.
May I suggest his teeth are so white that they dazzle our fielders.
It can't be for normal cricketing reasons.
Post by: simboy on November 28, 2019, 07:33:46 PM
If the aim of this series was to blood some of those fringe players or get them used to touring then Foakes was an ideal pick. One for the future. If they are planning for the future and to win the Ashes down under it’s not an auspicious start.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 28, 2019, 09:35:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 28, 2019, 09:38:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 28, 2019, 09:44:42 PM
Post by: OzVilla on November 28, 2019, 09:52:10 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 28, 2019, 10:19:34 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 28, 2019, 10:57:21 PM
I’m off to bed in the hope I reverse jinx things and Woakes rips them apart.
Post by: Villan For Life on November 28, 2019, 11:10:56 PM
Flat pitch, ordinary bowling (Archer with yet another spell in second gear. What’s the point?) one wicket, donated by a rotten shot.
I’m off to bed in the hope I reverse jinx things and Woakes rips them apart.
Within minutes Woakesy produced a beautiful ball to get Williamson, a great catch from Root too.
Post by: olaftab on November 28, 2019, 11:14:16 PM
Flat pitch, ordinary bowling (Archer with yet another spell in second gear. What’s the point?) one wicket, donated by a rotten shot.You need to go to bed again and again tonight.
I’m off to bed in the hope I reverse jinx things and Woakes rips them apart.
Post by: OzVilla on November 29, 2019, 04:54:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 29, 2019, 07:31:59 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 29, 2019, 08:58:13 AM
Not looking good. What is going on with Jof?
He's caught the Broad (and Anderson) bug. If there's no help in the pitch then the bowling unit collectively gives up.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 29, 2019, 09:36:20 AM
If they were worried about his fitness ahead of the match, I guess that's another reason for playing Woakes
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 29, 2019, 12:45:47 PM
Post by: Risso on November 29, 2019, 01:15:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 29, 2019, 02:36:07 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 29, 2019, 10:12:33 PM
191/5
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 29, 2019, 11:34:14 PM
Post by: Rory on November 30, 2019, 01:06:59 AM
Once again we just look a bit flat. Incapable of taking 20 wickets unless several are gifted to us.
Post by: Rory on November 30, 2019, 01:41:00 AM
Post by: Villafirst on November 30, 2019, 07:42:41 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 30, 2019, 08:35:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 30, 2019, 10:58:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2019, 08:12:58 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 01, 2019, 09:51:58 AM
Well done Burns and Root, that was a properly good effort. We need to try and go past them and hope rain doesn’t ruin it.
Rain looks likely on the last day according to the forecasts. Burns and Root were looking completely in control until the former was needlessly run out after just getting his hundred. Stayed up to watch a bit of it last night and couldn't quite believe it as there was just no need for it at all.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 01, 2019, 10:29:58 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 01, 2019, 10:47:46 PM
Mind you, the ICB should do us all a favour by encouraging the adoption of a ball that isn't the current Kookaburra.
Post by: olaftab on December 01, 2019, 11:01:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 02, 2019, 05:37:22 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 02, 2019, 06:03:30 PM
I think Sibley has to be given at least the 1st couple of tests in SA, but the opener position is becoming something that looks unsolvable at the moment.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 02, 2019, 07:45:52 PM
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2019, 08:02:05 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 02, 2019, 08:06:38 PM
Much rather have 3, 5 over spells of 90mph+ than 7/8 over spells of him just putting the ball there. Maybe he is a Devon Malcolm type who you need to get angry?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 02, 2019, 09:46:54 PM
Not really blaming Pope, it’s poor selection to expose him as a keeper at this level.
Post by: aj2k77 on December 03, 2019, 01:17:48 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 03, 2019, 04:30:14 PM
Shit today,pure shit. Again.
Yep that drop by Denly summed up the performance, shocking.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 03, 2019, 11:43:28 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 04, 2019, 12:22:33 AM
The whole tour has been a bit of a non-event. I’ve struggled to find any enthusiasm for it.
The modern day scheduling is a joke, so we are going to get series like this I suppose where it all just feels a bit underwhelming.
It has been a big of a disappointing tour on the whole, but I am a bit more hopeful that the semblance of a balanced side is starting to emerge (although selection in this last test was questionable). In the short term, I would be looking at a fairly settled pool of players of:
Top three - Burns, Sibley, Denly Crawley
4,5,6 - Root, Pope, Stokes, Bairstow, Vince (worth a go a bit lower)
7 (wk) - Buttler, Foakes
8 - Curran, Woakes, Ali
9, 10, 11 - Archer, Broad, Anderson, Leach, Wood
That will be trimmed down for the South Africa tour, but the Lions are going to Australia this winter so I would be looking at sending a pretty strong side down there.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 04, 2019, 11:59:56 AM
Post by: paul_e on December 20, 2019, 11:19:25 AM
Burns, Sibley, Denly, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Bairstow, Crawley, Curran, Woakes.
Currently 120/2 with Sibley(22) and Burns(56) gone and Denly(28*) and Root(9*) at the crease.
Another one where Sibley hasn'y got a big score but has seen out the first 20 overs (well nearly). Personally I'm happy with that but I do worry that England will look to replace him for not getting a big score if it doesn't come in the next few matches which I think would be a mistake.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 20, 2019, 03:04:08 PM
Overton and Bess are on their way as cover.
Post by: Richard on December 20, 2019, 08:24:14 PM
From what I understand there's a bit of a bug going around the camp, the result of which means England are playing a really bizarre line up:
Burns, Sibley, Denly, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Bairstow, Crawley, Curran, Woakes.
Currently 120/2 with Sibley(22) and Burns(56) gone and Denly(28*) and Root(9*) at the crease.
Another one where Sibley hasn'y got a big score but has seen out the first 20 overs (well nearly). Personally I'm happy with that but I do worry that England will look to replace him for not getting a big score if it doesn't come in the next few matches which I think would be a mistake.
It's actually a 14 per side game the line up above is just for when we are batting.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 23, 2019, 06:10:52 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 26, 2019, 08:04:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2019, 10:04:25 AM
Post by: Monty on December 26, 2019, 11:14:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2019, 11:49:41 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 26, 2019, 11:56:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on December 26, 2019, 12:26:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2019, 12:37:58 PM
Post by: Steve67 on December 26, 2019, 12:45:25 PM
Archer has been poor so far, which is frustrating, he's the bowler we want firing when things get a bit flat like this.
I saw his 'beehive' earlier, only two balls from his whole spell were hitting the wickets. Far too short. We are not using his pace properly, complete waste of a man.
Post by: Steve67 on December 27, 2019, 12:21:37 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on December 27, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
Post by: Steve67 on December 27, 2019, 01:39:54 PM
England's batsmen are shit.
I'm really pleased that we have a world class Coach in Chris Silverwood to sort them out. (sarcasm alert!) Absolutely appalling. None of what is happening at test level is working for England, Root through to Silverwood needs a head wobble and Ashley Giles can do one as well.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2019, 05:23:18 PM
Post by: Villafirst on December 28, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 28, 2019, 08:54:22 AM
Why isn't Archer bowling? The ball is getting softer. Root baffles me at times with his captaincy.
Root isn’t on the pitch, he’s ill. Stokes is the Acting captain.
Post by: Steve67 on December 28, 2019, 09:04:20 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 28, 2019, 11:04:00 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2019, 12:49:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 29, 2019, 02:55:17 PM
I suspect that's the last we'll see of Bairstow in Tests for quite a while.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 30, 2019, 12:57:22 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 30, 2019, 01:28:53 AM
Two questions for me though - why choose Silverwood when he was part of the set up that hadn't exactly been a great success in test cricket?
As good as they are, I have wondered for some time now if Broad and Anderson are a negative influence in the set up? Things just haven't looked right in the test set up for sometime now and it is interesting to note just how together the ODI sides have looked in comparison without them around. Kevin Pietersen spoke about their attitude in the past (though he is not exactly one to talk in that department) and how damaging it was on morale in the squad.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 02, 2020, 08:00:39 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on January 02, 2020, 10:17:51 PM
So Burns out of the Test after injuring ankle playing football. I do wonder why they do it.
The King of Spain did tell Joe Root when he took over it was not something they should be doing
Post by: paul_e on January 02, 2020, 11:19:31 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 03, 2020, 08:04:01 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 03, 2020, 08:10:38 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/5k004cr/385-A5798-E638-4-FD1-BA4-C-0-DEB7-C8-F67-BF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5k004cr)
(https://i.ibb.co/W0WtyTt/D40-E1849-4662-4766-9738-CA777-CDCD5-FA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W0WtyTt)
Post by: olaftab on January 03, 2020, 08:16:08 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/jy9bK5T/4962-F17-E-14-A8-4355-B092-05-FDF3-DEF1-BC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jy9bK5T)
(https://i.ibb.co/37rL9fq/9630-CCBF-1-F40-42-EA-82-DF-9976-F83-E0-B98.jpg) (https://ibb.co/37rL9fq)
Post by: olaftab on January 03, 2020, 08:19:14 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/kM0hCJ2/F97034-FF-B6-EE-4-A4-B-9250-2-B23-A8-AA2-F05.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kM0hCJ2)
Post by: olaftab on January 03, 2020, 08:21:24 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 03, 2020, 08:58:37 AM
That batting line up worries me, it's paper thin.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 03, 2020, 11:36:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 03, 2020, 01:12:49 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 03, 2020, 01:30:15 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 03, 2020, 01:40:24 PM
Giles has banned the football now. Too bloody right.
It was said on the radio commentary that the King of Spain had wanted the football stopped earlier but Joe 'Bite yer legs' Root wanted it kept.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 03, 2020, 02:16:35 PM
We’ll likely do our normal thing here and subside to a score of 250-330.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 03, 2020, 02:54:09 PM
Another start and out.
We’ll likely do our normal thing here and subside to a score of 250-330.
...and another :(
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 03, 2020, 02:54:10 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 03, 2020, 03:08:32 PM
And another...
Beat you be one second on that one
Moving on.......and another
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 03, 2020, 03:09:34 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 03, 2020, 03:13:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 03, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 03, 2020, 03:24:27 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 03, 2020, 04:47:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 03, 2020, 04:49:45 PM
Also how the hell is Foakes not in this side? I just don’t get it.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 03, 2020, 05:32:36 PM
This is a SA team that came into the series in disarray and had just lost their previous 5 matches, yet they are all over us.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on January 03, 2020, 05:46:59 PM
If any commentator mentions how deep England bat I’ll invite them to dinner with Vlad The Impaler.
Mind you the ball was turning square and the pitch was a snake-pit.
Crikey this acid is good.
Post by: Villafirst on January 03, 2020, 08:59:02 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 03, 2020, 09:52:36 PM
Is it just our country that is full of w@n£ers ? Just spent a (largely) pleasant day on the grass bank at Cape Town until late afternoon when the beer obviously kicked in and snakes / throwing glasses / standing / football chants took over. Any request to respect fellow supporters - or even simply move so they can watch the live action - gets met with a mouthful of obscenities and threats of violence. Don’t recall seeing these tossers in NZ or other such less accessible tours. Embarrassing and disappointing.Totally agree Lsvilla. I witnessed some disgraceful scenes today including two England fans fighting with each other, beer being spilled on ground staff as groups of England fans dance around them goading them to sing and other incidents resembling worst aspect of some football fans.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 03, 2020, 10:19:25 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 03, 2020, 11:09:48 PM
We do seem to have a disproportionate number of utter dimwits.
Judging by the performance on the field, this goes for the batsmen too.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 03, 2020, 11:26:32 PM
Is it just our country that is full of w@n£ers ? Just spent a (largely) pleasant day on the grass bank at Cape Town until late afternoon when the beer obviously kicked in and snakes / throwing glasses / standing / football chants took over. Any request to respect fellow supporters - or even simply move so they can watch the live action - gets met with a mouthful of obscenities and threats of violence. Don’t recall seeing these tossers in NZ or other such less accessible tours. Embarrassing and disappointing.Totally agree Lsvilla. I witnessed some disgraceful scenes today including two England fans fighting with each other, beer being spilled on ground staff as groups of England fans dance around them goading them to sing and other incidents resembling worst aspect of some football fans.
Took the plunge to come to Cape Town and went to the Test today as well. Was in the Railway Stand opposite the grass bank and have to say that apart from a small group of South Africans who shouted obscenities at various times during the day (had their kids with them as well!!) I didn't see the kind of scenes mentioned above.
As for on the field, just have to conclude that gif somd reason, we just aren't a good test side and haven't been for some time. The kind of performance we saw today has just happened too many times over the last few years for anything else to be the case really.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 03, 2020, 11:30:12 PM
Early days, but I’m not seeing a whole lot of improvement under Silverwood. We are making exactly the same mistakes.
Also how the hell is Foakes not in this side? I just don’t get it.
Silverwood was part of the previous set up which had taken us backwards in test cricket. Seemed a bit of a 'matey' appointment at the time and it has been much of the same since.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 04, 2020, 07:27:32 AM
We have to accept that the next couple of years will be barren where we win the odd test at home but are a long way from where we want to be.
Undoubtedly the global focus on white ball cricket over the last ten years or so has lead to a reduction in Test quality across all international sides but we seem to be hindered more than most. I was thrilled to win the CWC last year but like most on here I think red ball cricket is the purest form of the game and I’d much rather see an England team dominating red ball cricket than white ball cricket. Unfortunately money talks and white ball cricket is where the money is.
So Mr Giles, you lack guts and vision. Appointing Silverwood is akin to Villa appointing Graham Turner and we know where that ended up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 09:05:17 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 04, 2020, 09:40:34 AM
We are in a transitional phase in test cricket and so as a result we really needed to appoint a coach with patience, vision and skills. Instead we signalled that we were carrying on regardless with the appointment of Silverwood. A county trundler to international coach is an underwhelming appointment. The players are too comfortable and a culture of mediocrity seems to be the norm.
We have to accept that the next couple of years will be barren where we win the odd test at home but are a long way from where we want to be.
Undoubtedly the global focus on white ball cricket over the last ten years or so has lead to a reduction in Test quality across all international sides but we seem to be hindered more than most. I was thrilled to win the CWC last year but like most on here I think red ball cricket is the purest form of the game and I’d much rather see an England team dominating red ball cricket than white ball cricket. Unfortunately money talks and white ball cricket is where the money is.
So Mr Giles, you lack guts and vision. Appointing Silverwood is akin to Villa appointing Graham Turner and we know where that ended up.
Agree with that mate.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 10:02:57 AM
Post by: simboy on January 04, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
I agree he was a “jobbing” county cricketer but he took Essex out of the second division and won the championship the following year. He made wholesale changes to the squad and I’m not sure that they had the same money as other more “prestigious” counties at the time.
The jury is still out in my opinion. However, his encouragement of youth is good to see, I hope he sticks to this. It would have been really simple to move Denly up to open and drop in Bairstow at 3 at Newlands. We didn’t. We decided to stick with Denly and trust Crawley. That I thought was good to see and I hope is something we continue to see.
To hear that they were thinking of dropping Broad or Anderson in favour of Archer is also interesting and a sign of the times. The fact that it is not being left to Broad or Anderson to “call time” on their own career is also encouraging.
As to being like appointing Turner, I’d hope it’s a little more like appointing another lower league player in Graham Taylor.
We will see. I am not “sold” on Silverwood but I am prepared to give him a chance over a period of transition. If one or more of Sibley, Pope, Bess, Curran, Archer or Crawley become Ashes heroes in Australia then job done.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 11:36:54 AM
Post by: Steve67 on January 04, 2020, 12:00:25 PM
We are in a transitional phase in test cricket and so as a result we really needed to appoint a coach with patience, vision and skills. Instead we signalled that we were carrying on regardless with the appointment of Silverwood. A county trundler to international coach is an underwhelming appointment. The players are too comfortable and a culture of mediocrity seems to be the norm.
We have to accept that the next couple of years will be barren where we win the odd test at home but are a long way from where we want to be.
Undoubtedly the global focus on white ball cricket over the last ten years or so has lead to a reduction in Test quality across all international sides but we seem to be hindered more than most. I was thrilled to win the CWC last year but like most on here I think red ball cricket is the purest form of the game and I’d much rather see an England team dominating red ball cricket than white ball cricket. Unfortunately money talks and white ball cricket is where the money is.
So Mr Giles, you lack guts and vision. Appointing Silverwood is akin to Villa appointing Graham Turner and we know where that ended up.
Agree with that mate.
I could not agree more. Every other test nation seems to go for a world class coach, yet we seem to shop at Aldi and Lidl for ours. We have some great players who, like Ollie Pope, could turn out to be worldies.
I was listening intently the to commentary this morning from Pollock, saying that, if Anderson and Broad want the dictate the terms of the fielding placements, they really need to stop worrying about giving runs away, and their average, and focus on taking wickets by putting the ball in the right place.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 12:01:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 12:10:27 PM
Stokes has bowled about 10 now. The coaching staff need to be watching this and giving the heads up or we’re going to take another wicket off a no ball.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 12:30:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 05:20:23 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 04, 2020, 07:34:56 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 05, 2020, 08:31:06 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 05, 2020, 08:54:44 AM
Post by: Villafirst on January 05, 2020, 10:00:53 AM
Post by: Risso on January 05, 2020, 11:18:09 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 05, 2020, 12:19:07 PM
Blimey, that was a collapse of Englandian proportions.
Assuming you're talking about SA getting the 2 set batsmen out just before the new ball was key. Bowling against newly arrived tailenders with a new kookaburra makes 4-5 wickets for not much are almost guaranteed. That's been at the heart of many an England collapse over the years.
Post by: Broughty-Villian on January 05, 2020, 02:30:49 PM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 05, 2020, 03:33:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 05, 2020, 04:41:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 05, 2020, 07:24:55 PM
Fine day today. They’ve taken the game away from SA and they just need to grind them into the ground.
Really good day, having an opener put in the sort of knock that Sibley gave today makes a massive difference and then having the other 3 all make decent contributions around him has pushed us into a position of almost complete control. There's probably enough on the board already but with 2 full days of play to go I'd say see of the new ball and push the target to 300 and then just have fun and bat the innings out, it'd be nice going in to bowl with 400+ behind us, it's been a while since we did that to anyone away from home.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 05, 2020, 08:32:15 PM
Fine day today. They’ve taken the game away from SA and they just need to grind them into the ground.
Really good day, having an opener put in the sort of knock that Sibley gave today makes a massive difference and then having the other 3 all make decent contributions around him has pushed us into a position of almost complete control. There's probably enough on the board already but with 2 full days of play to go I'd say see of the new ball and push the target to 300 and then just have fun and bat the innings out, it'd be nice going in to bowl with 400+ behind us, it's been a while since we did that to anyone away from home.
Should be Paul but I would like to see us really turn the screw tomorrow and make a bit of a statement. Root getting out was a bit of a blow, as it would have been ideal if him and Sibley could have carried on in the early morning with Stokes and Buttler given license to come in after.
If things go well then Root might have a decision to make regarding his declaration.
Post by: Steve67 on January 05, 2020, 09:56:10 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 06, 2020, 08:20:06 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 06, 2020, 08:24:21 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/SQ6YBDq/6-A1-C9-B8-E-12-EE-4-AB9-B79-C-7-E925658-DF2-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SQ6YBDq)
(https://i.ibb.co/0fHVjHq/BF7596-C6-1-F2-E-4617-9961-7-C042-F72-DA31.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0fHVjHq)
Post by: paul_e on January 06, 2020, 09:07:04 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 06, 2020, 09:36:12 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 06, 2020, 09:44:12 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 06, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 06, 2020, 10:32:37 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 06, 2020, 10:36:28 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/SQ6YBDq/6-A1-C9-B8-E-12-EE-4-AB9-B79-C-7-E925658-DF2-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SQ6YBDq)
Incredible location for a sporting venue
Post by: paul_e on January 06, 2020, 11:10:01 AM
Sibley has bee totally competent. Let’s hope this is start of a great test career. Talk is declaring 10 overs post lunch.
I'd agree with that, get them to do a little bit more in the field whilst Curran and Sibley tee off, 10 overs or the next wicket, whichever comes first. This is about grinding their face in the dirt more than adding anything to the target, it's the sort of thing Australia, South Africa and India do to teams in this situation.
Almost a perfect session for England
I'd go a bit further and say this is almost a perfect 3rd innings.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 06, 2020, 11:34:58 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 06, 2020, 11:45:36 AM
Post by: Richard on January 06, 2020, 02:02:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 06, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Elgar gone to the thinnest edge imaginable. Given Malan survived earlier by an edge nearly as small I think that's balanced it out well. Now lets get another 1-2 quite quickly.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 06, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/d7gB92f/AF49-E5-E5-40-FF-462-E-AF03-B17109-C72353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d7gB92f)
Post by: Villan For Life on January 06, 2020, 04:18:32 PM
Anyone on here ?
(https://i.ibb.co/d7gB92f/AF49-E5-E5-40-FF-462-E-AF03-B17109-C72353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d7gB92f)
I spotted that too. There seems to be a decent Villa contingent out there.
Post by: Steve67 on January 06, 2020, 09:43:53 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 07, 2020, 10:02:30 AM
Bess is bowling really well so if he can tie an end up then Root can rotate the other bowlers at the other end. So far the Saffers are comfortably batting out time so we need to make something happen.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2020, 01:08:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 07, 2020, 01:58:42 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 07, 2020, 02:00:13 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 07, 2020, 02:01:19 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on January 07, 2020, 02:10:39 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 07, 2020, 02:20:15 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 07, 2020, 02:41:11 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 07, 2020, 02:51:49 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 07, 2020, 02:53:56 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 07, 2020, 03:09:25 PM
Loads of Villa shirts in the crowd too.
Post by: Dave Cooper please on January 07, 2020, 03:11:05 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 07, 2020, 03:24:40 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on January 07, 2020, 04:02:59 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 07, 2020, 05:17:48 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 07, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
Excellent test match this, and a reason why we should not go to 4 day tests.Absolutely
Post by: olaftab on January 07, 2020, 05:39:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2020, 09:16:30 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 07, 2020, 09:53:09 PM
Post by: Andy Poole on January 08, 2020, 06:05:59 AM
That is now the 2 most iconic test grounds ticked off my list.
Roll on India in 2021.
Post by: Risso on January 08, 2020, 09:57:51 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 08, 2020, 10:23:12 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 08, 2020, 11:01:03 AM
Hopefully Dom Sibley will take a lot of confidence from his maiden century and can go on to form a good partnership with Burns at the top of the order.
I still think Ben Foakes is the best keeper we have in the test format and should be batting at seven in the test team
In away tests on flat pitches I'm not sure the likes of Sam Curran are the best options. I liked the look of Nortje that bowled for them and I think we need someone like that who can bowl that kind of pace to compliment Broad and Anderson. We have them in Archer and Wood, and I would like to see us perhaps sacrifice some batting to include one of them.
Bess did a decent holding job, but didn't look too threatening. Hopefully Moeen Ali can recover form and confidence, as he would balance the side well batting at 8. It will be a bit controversial seeing as he has already played some tests for South Africa, but talk out here is that Simon Harmer could be English qualified soon, so could be selected. He has been one of, if not the best spinners
on the county circuit for a few seasons, but I'm not sure how comfortably that would sit really.
Post by: olaftab on January 08, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
5 of the best days of cricket I've been lucky enough to witness. The Barmies aren't popular in some quarters but I can tell you we had a massive influence in the final 2 sessions. A whole hour of Joe Roots Barmy Army!Must have been within touching distance of you in block H. I don’t particularly like some BA elements but no one can deny the impact of fans on this win. Are you going to PE as well?
That is now the 2 most iconic test grounds ticked off my list.
Roll on India in 2021.
Post by: Andy Poole on January 08, 2020, 11:35:18 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 08, 2020, 11:35:34 AM
Going forward, I think the basis of a decent side is beginning to come together. Just a few observations :
Hopefully Dom Sibley will take a lot of confidence from his maiden century and can go on to form a good partnership with Burns at the top of the order.
I still think Ben Foakes is the best keeper we have in the test format and should be batting at seven in the test team
In away tests on flat pitches I'm not sure the likes of Sam Curran are the best options. I liked the look of Nortje that bowled for them and I think we need someone like that who can bowl that kind of pace to compliment Broad and Anderson. We have them in Archer and Wood, and I would like to see us perhaps sacrifice some batting to include one of them.
Bess did a decent holding job, but didn't look too threatening. Hopefully Moeen Ali can recover form and confidence, as he would balance the side well batting at 8. It will be a bit controversial seeing as he has already played some tests for South Africa, but talk out here is that Simon Harmer could be English qualified soon, so could be selected. He has been one of, if not the best spinners
on the county circuit for a few seasons, but I'm not sure how comfortably that would sit really.
You make some interesting points Tom, but one swallow doesn’t make a summer. The issues are still there and our batting is still wafer thin. Hopefully Sibley will push on, but he was found wanting in New Zealand. Both Keaton Jennings and Adam Lyth have scored test centuries so it remains to be seen if Sibley can make the openers spot his own.
The biggest challenge facing the side over the next few years has to be replacing Broad and Anderson. Those two have nearly 1,100 test wickets between them. Archer doesn’t seem to have the appetite for test cricket, Wood is injury prone as are some of the others who are breaking through like Stone and Pat Brown Who struggle with stress fractures.
Sam Curran would be an automatic selection for me, he has something special and the ability to make things happen. He’s still learning and is only 21, there’s a huge talent there.
Simon Harmer is an option as spinner and he’s just extended his deal at Essex. I’m unconcerned by his background and he’s not the first Saffer to make that switch. I think we are well covered in the spin bowling department although as yet none are as consistent as Swann. Bess bowled well at Newlands and tied down his end, thus allowing Root to rotate the quicks.
Things look marginally better than after the Boxing Day test, just like the Villa after the win at Burnley, but let’s not get too excited.
Post by: olaftab on January 08, 2020, 05:16:01 PM
I fly home on Friday unfortunately. I wish I'd known you were there. We were in block H for all 5 days. Just got back from seeing the Penguins at Boulders Bay. We are at the Africa cafe tonight. Probably be bimbling around the V&A tomorrow as we have a very early flight on Friday morning.Just missed you than as we have set off in the garden route towards PE. Shark cage at Gansbaai tomorrow. Enjoy your stay.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on January 08, 2020, 05:43:33 PM
Post by: Andy Poole on January 08, 2020, 07:44:04 PM
I fly home on Friday unfortunately. I wish I'd known you were there. We were in block H for all 5 days. Just got back from seeing the Penguins at Boulders Bay. We are at the Africa cafe tonight. Probably be bimbling around the V&A tomorrow as we have a very early flight on Friday morning.Just missed you than as we have set off in the garden route towards PE. Shark cage at Gansbaai tomorrow. Enjoy your stay.
Have a great time! Our next one will probably be India in 2021.
Post by: paul_e on January 08, 2020, 08:08:51 PM
Anderson sadly out of the series with a rib injury.
Innocuous injuries are starting to stack up for him now, I hope we're ready for test cricket without him because it's not far away.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 09, 2020, 12:11:27 PM
They'll need to change the wording of the law to take into account second touches
https://twitter.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1215201752032505858
https://twitter.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1215206185533526016
Post by: PGW on January 09, 2020, 03:26:36 PM
Post by: Nev on January 09, 2020, 03:38:38 PM
*gunshot*
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 09, 2020, 11:56:21 PM
The hosts are 142 for 6 chasing 238. 22 overs remaining so still plenty of time, but running out of wickets.
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 10, 2020, 12:51:51 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 10, 2020, 01:49:02 AM
Post by: Andy Poole on January 10, 2020, 05:56:52 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 16, 2020, 12:17:06 AM
Was talking to someone about cricket over there and said that I had been lucky enough to see quite a bit of one of the great South African cricketers in Allan Donald during his time at Warwickshire. The person I was talking to asked if I knew that Donald very nearly played for England and was well down the residency route that the likes of Graeme Hick took when South Africa were re admitted into international sport. He then had a choice and was persuaded to play for South Africa.
I had genuinely never heard that before and that might have solved a few of our problems in the 90's!!
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2020, 07:43:31 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/drFG0jF/3741-E186-5476-4-A62-957-C-17-C3-D33-A2-A12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/drFG0jF)
(https://i.ibb.co/kJKTj43/2-F19-EE39-BCC2-495-B-A1-D3-12-CB88575-E2-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kJKTj43)
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2020, 07:50:46 AM
Friday's flying fish day. It's also flying home day. Take me home Joe Root.😊 Every day is.....
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2020, 10:47:13 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/n8hMKHY/8-E6-EA9-B8-361-A-40-D2-A721-CCB457-E749-A3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n8hMKHY)
Post by: OzVilla on January 16, 2020, 10:59:08 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 16, 2020, 11:16:53 AM
Interesting this allowing fans onto to turf at lunch:
(https://i.ibb.co/n8hMKHY/8-E6-EA9-B8-361-A-40-D2-A721-CCB457-E749-A3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n8hMKHY)
I remember the days at Twickenham when spectators were allowed to walk across the pitch after games.
I grabbed a small chunk of turf and kept it growing in my garden for years
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2020, 11:50:29 AM
Soft dismissal for Sibley there.Threw it away silly boy.
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2020, 01:28:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 16, 2020, 11:05:48 PM
Solid day in the end. Need to get up to 400.
If the pitch stays as tough to score on as it looked this morning I think 350 is a match winning score. I can see it being a fucking nightmare to bat on day 4-5, there was some big turn and uneven bounce in the 2nd session today and that just going to get worse. It looked like a road in the first session but I suspect it was so dry that just a couple of hours of play has already had an impact. The roller will make a difference though so Stokes and Pope need to pile the runs on in the first hour. We really want them batting for an hour or so tomorrow so we'll need to pick the pace up a bit.
Post by: paul_e on January 17, 2020, 09:54:00 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on January 17, 2020, 09:58:32 AM
a tad harsh, but he has previous demerit points so he gets a one match ban.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: paul_e on January 17, 2020, 10:18:12 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 17, 2020, 02:22:44 PM
The pitch looks as dead as a dodo so we will have to work very hard for our wickets.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on January 17, 2020, 02:26:38 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on January 17, 2020, 02:36:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 17, 2020, 04:05:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2020, 06:36:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 18, 2020, 08:30:31 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 18, 2020, 09:39:56 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 18, 2020, 10:59:39 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 18, 2020, 02:52:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 18, 2020, 02:58:29 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/cC7cH8X/57-B252-ED-2-E24-4-A89-BE8-C-FC8-D6-BD4202-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cC7cH8X)
(https://i.ibb.co/86Yws06/8-F66776-F-7-D8-D-4-C00-9650-361-C98-ED14-F7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/86Yws06)
Post by: olaftab on January 18, 2020, 06:18:15 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 19, 2020, 02:08:05 AM
3 crucial catches dropped by Stokes and it was de Kock every time which has slowed down England’s inevitable win in this match.
Yep. Hopefully we can make amends and clean them up early in the session.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2020, 08:36:57 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 19, 2020, 08:37:18 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 19, 2020, 08:39:22 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 19, 2020, 09:04:07 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 19, 2020, 10:15:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2020, 02:10:38 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 19, 2020, 08:18:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2020, 09:05:46 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 19, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 19, 2020, 10:53:41 PM
Root is a more than useful option with the ball. Bowled some great stuff today.
Perfect conditions for a part time off-spinner coming round the wicket to the right-handers, the wind, the variation in the pitch and the slightly variable technique made him really hard to pick and led to some very poor shots (Van Der Dussen in particular gift-wrapped his wicket, even if it did take a phenomenal catch he looked destined to pop one up to Pope eventually).
Post by: tomd2103 on January 20, 2020, 12:45:50 AM
SA all out in no time this morning, England enforce the follow on. England couldn't have wished for a better start to the day.
First follow-on we've enforced since the West Indies day/night game in 2017 apparently.
Weather permitting, we should be on course for a pretty emphatic victory.
Post by: olaftab on January 20, 2020, 09:21:40 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on January 20, 2020, 10:11:04 AM
well played England
UTV
The Doc
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2020, 10:23:07 AM
Joe Root unbelievably greedy and selfish this morning in the Trumpesque style.
To be fair to him, with that many runs to spare and the game pretty much in the bag I'm ok with him giving himself a chance for his fifth, I think he earned that yesterday.
Post by: olaftab on January 20, 2020, 11:48:07 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 20, 2020, 11:54:17 AM
made hard work of that last wicket, that is for sure...It was brilliant entertainment though specially Joe’s 28 runs over.
well played England
UTV
The Doc
Post by: paul_e on January 20, 2020, 01:55:35 PM
I could agree Paul e in my weakest sentimental moment but it was not professional. Can’t see an Aussie skipper doing that specially as threat of rain was there.
If there was no chance of him taking a wicket I'd agree but he'd bene very dangerous in the previous session so I can forgive him for giving it a go, especially when it happened during one of our most impressive away performances in years.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2020, 07:19:39 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 23, 2020, 10:04:24 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 23, 2020, 10:58:32 PM
if Archer comes in, who is left out? Not Wood, surely?
Joberg is probably the fastest pitch in SA, I think they will sacrifice spin so as well as Bess bowled in the first innings of the last test, Archer will come in for him. An attack of Wood, Archer, Broad, Curran & Stokes will be handy on a fast pitch. Root and Crawley will offer any slow bowling options to use up overs.
It’s horses for courses really, we are in Sri Lanka in March where we will play three or four spinners at the expense of the quicker bowlers.
Post by: LeeB on January 24, 2020, 10:40:04 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 24, 2020, 12:55:34 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 24, 2020, 02:11:07 PM
Aside from that I really like this opening pair, along with Burns we seem to finally have found some proper openers who are able to consistently deal with the new ball. With Denly looking more settled at 3 (and offering a decent bowling option) we're actually facing a big decision of 3 from 4 at the top now.
Agree Paul. Been possibly the most positive part of the tour so far.
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2020, 06:36:56 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/GpWrrX1/686-B018-F-6-DC4-4395-B5-A5-C5-EFB3-CEA8-FB.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GpWrrX1)
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2020, 09:52:44 AM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on January 25, 2020, 10:16:37 AM
Ben Stokes:
(https://i.ibb.co/GpWrrX1/686-B018-F-6-DC4-4395-B5-A5-C5-EFB3-CEA8-FB.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GpWrrX1)
As one who wears glasses, I can say that Stokes was bang out of order picking on that fan's eyesight issue.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2020, 10:23:29 AM
Curran has too much talent with the bat to throw his wicket away in the way that he does quite often.
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2020, 10:27:02 AM
Very poor shots from both Root and Curran bringing SA right back into it.
Curran has too much talent with the bat to throw his wicket away in the way that he does quite often.
I'll forgive him because he's batting at 8 and he's still very young.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2020, 10:35:06 AM
Very poor shots from both Root and Curran bringing SA right back into it.
Curran has too much talent with the bat to throw his wicket away in the way that he does quite often.
I'll forgive him because he's batting at 8 and he's still very young.
He is very young, but the talent that he's got is of a player who can play substantial innings. I think his batting could be his stronger suit and has the potential to bat 6 or 7.
Probably needs someone to have a word with him. Great that he wants to play positively, but have a look for 10 minutes or so.
Post by: Dante Lavelli on January 25, 2020, 11:01:37 AM
The new ball was X overs away. His objective should have been to stay in a see the shine off the new ball. After that he would have earned the right to tee off a bit. Crucially, if he had completed that then I doubt England could have lost the test, whereas being reckless too early means that all three results are still possible.
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2020, 11:14:46 AM
In truth I'd proabably have sent Woakes in before him given the circumstances.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2020, 11:25:43 AM
I don't disagree at all, i just think there are mitigating factors.
In truth I'd proabably have sent Woakes in before him given the circumstances.
I agree with that. Woakes plays in a more conventional manner, which would have been better suited to the match situation.
I think that going forward, Curran is going to have to focus on his batting to stay in the side. The other bowlers in and around the squad seem more threatening in a wider array of conditions.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2020, 11:40:37 AM
Think we have a decent score if we can eke out another 20 or 30.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 25, 2020, 11:41:36 AM
Think it's time to drop Buttler now. He isn't getting runs and his keeping has been patchy in this series. That was a really poor way to get out as a partnership was building. Foakes should be given the Sri Lanka series.
Think we have a decent score if we can eke out another 20 or 30.
Another cameo from Wood would be nice.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2020, 12:02:04 PM
Buttler wasn’t great.
Post by: Steve67 on January 25, 2020, 12:07:08 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on January 25, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2020, 12:44:03 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2020, 04:42:20 PM
Hopefully we can keep Mark Wood fit as him and a fired up Jofra in the same team is a great prospect.
Thought Woakes bowled beautifully and deserved more than 1 wicket. Granted its a pretty poor SA team, but poor performance in the 1st test aside, England have been very good.
Post by: manic-road on January 25, 2020, 05:33:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2020, 06:24:34 PM
Brilliant 2nd half of the day.
Hopefully we can keep Mark Wood fit as him and a fired up Jofra in the same team is a great prospect.
Thought Woakes bowled beautifully and deserved more than 1 wicket. Granted its a pretty poor SA team, but poor performance in the 1st test aside, England have been very good.
If, and it’s a big if, Archer and Wood are fit and firing in Aus in 18 months we’ve got a chance of being in the contest.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 25, 2020, 09:26:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2020, 11:16:41 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 26, 2020, 11:20:39 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2020, 12:43:38 PM
SA all out and England don't enforce the follow on and bat again, currently lead with 235 for 0 wickets.
No great shock, by batting again they should completely remove the possibility of a SA win, thereby confirming the series victory. Lead is, effectively, 292/2 with Crawley and Denly gone. That's already a tough chase on this wicket. I can imagine England going for something like 450 by about lunch tomorrow and then give themselves 5 sessions to seal the victory.
Post by: Risso on January 26, 2020, 04:28:45 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 26, 2020, 08:01:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2020, 08:30:57 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 26, 2020, 11:54:17 PM
Wood has been terrific.
Interesting interview with him after the close of play today. Michael Holding was there as well and he said he had taken Holding's advice to lengthen his run up, as his previous shortened run up was causing too much stress on his body.
Holding did some good analysis on him during the last test, showing the awkward position he gets into delivering the ball and it wasn't hard to see from that just why he picks up so many injuries.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 27, 2020, 12:01:20 AM
As a cricket fan it’s sad to see such an underwhelming South Africa side. They’ve been blessed with some fantastic players over the years, players who transcend rivalries. That said they’re making us look fantastic.....we’re not but we’re making progress.
Agree and can't see them improving any time soon really. There has been huge turmoil behind the scenes recently, leading to members of their board being suspended and their main sponsor pulling out. Their domestic game is in tatters, with arguments about which sides should be granted first class status and the new 20/20 league they have set up has received little support.
The Kolpak situation might change though after Brexit and that might stem the flow of players leaving somewhat, but the financial situation in South Africa puts them at a major disadvantage when trying to keep players there.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 27, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
I reckon that if the squad hadn't been decimated by illness then we may have won the first test too.
Post by: paul_e on January 27, 2020, 03:00:09 PM
A pretty spectacular collapse by South Africa, losing 6 for 40-odd to give England a win by 191 runs and the series 3-1.
I reckon that if the squad hadn't been decimated by illness then we may have won the first test too.
Agreed, I think the illness factor was under played in the first test now we can see how these 2 teams look at full tilt, it was 3 comfortable wins really.
Post by: paul_e on February 04, 2020, 01:04:04 PM
Currently 131/6 after 27.5
Lots of starts but some awful batting, particularly against a very average spinner, has screwed the middle order.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 04, 2020, 01:05:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 04, 2020, 02:38:26 PM
Our Chris in to bat on his 100th ODI appearance
He did a great job to get us into position to post a competitive target, as did Denly. I'm worried we're a little short here (270-280 would be par I think) but batting out the overs and having a score that gives us a chance is a good result given where we were after 25.
Post by: Villafirst on February 04, 2020, 07:17:57 PM
Post by: Colhint on February 04, 2020, 07:28:35 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 04, 2020, 10:59:47 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 05, 2020, 09:08:49 AM
For a ODI, the line up was a batsman short and not sure there is much point playing Banton at 6. Got to be opening or no 3 if in the team.
Post by: manic-road on February 09, 2020, 10:10:06 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 09, 2020, 11:12:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2020, 04:45:02 PM
Post by: manic-road on February 09, 2020, 05:36:50 PM
Just about got over the line.
Made an easy win into a tight win, some can't help throwing wickets away.
Post by: paul_e on February 12, 2020, 04:52:21 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 12, 2020, 04:55:29 PM
Some shocking fielding from England in the first t20i, we will have done well to keep the chase below 200 now.
It looks a shocking outfield which isn’t helping. They look lethargic in the field at the moment.
Post by: paul_e on February 12, 2020, 05:34:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 12, 2020, 06:48:41 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 12, 2020, 07:17:23 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 12, 2020, 07:32:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2020, 07:36:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 12, 2020, 07:48:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 12, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
They are all attacking players so they will always go for the glory shot in white ball cricket. When it works, and to be fair it usually does work, it looks fantastic. On the odd occasion it doesn’t work we look pretty stupid.
It needed someone with a cricket brain to see that out but we didn’t have that player today.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2020, 07:57:59 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 12, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
I also don’t like Buttler as an opener. It’s much better having him coming in in the pressure situation.
I’d have Hales back, he must have served his punishment by now.
Post by: paul_e on February 12, 2020, 11:25:47 PM
I also don’t like Buttler as an opener. It’s much better having him coming in in the pressure situation.
I’d have Hales back, he must have served his punishment by now.
I wouldn't. Malan in for Denly, push Bairstow to open, Malan to 3 and then Buttler coming in next any time after about the 12th over, Other than that Woakes for Curran and Archer for Wood and I'd be happy.
As above, we lost today because Curran and Moeen weren't calm enough to realise that they just needed to get bat to ball and keep it on the ground. With how wide he'd pushed the field there were 1s and 2s everywhere but the nerves got to them. The knock from Roy was exceptional though and despite coming to an end with a bizarre shot it really should've been enough to see us over the line.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 14, 2020, 09:26:59 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 14, 2020, 05:59:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2020, 07:52:21 PM
Post by: Villafirst on February 15, 2020, 06:37:22 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 15, 2020, 07:18:58 AM
I still think Roy and Hales are the best openers in this format. Buttler is better at 5 or 6. Why the continued omission of Hales?
I think he should be in the team but I imagine that Morgan doesn’t want him to be selected due to his past misdemeanours. To be fair, we haven’t really missed him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 15, 2020, 05:00:02 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 15, 2020, 11:34:47 PM
To be honest I’d be looking at Banton as an option in the top 3.
Didn't realise he was a local lad in his teens Paul and had been in the Warwicksire set up at one point.
Unlike the test side over the past couple of years, we have an abundance of choices in limited overs cricket. Despite that, I think Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Archer and Wood is our best side in both formats of ODIs. You could argue that we might need a bigger hitter than Root at three in T20s, but I still think there is a place for that type of player.
Post by: paul_e on February 16, 2020, 03:18:18 AM
To be honest I’d be looking at Banton as an option in the top 3.
Didn't realise he was a local lad in his teens Paul and had been in the Warwicksire set up at one point.
Unlike the test side over the past couple of years, we have an abundance of choices in limited overs cricket. Despite that, I think Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Archer and Wood is our best side in both formats of ODIs. You could argue that we might need a bigger hitter than Root at three in T20s, but I still think there is a place for that type of player.
I'd swap Root out to give him a break more than anything. Malan or Banton for me.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2020, 12:44:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2020, 12:46:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2020, 01:40:18 PM
Post by: Steve67 on February 16, 2020, 01:41:15 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 16, 2020, 07:41:22 PM
They seem to have been out in South Africa for ages, so all things considered it’s been a good tour.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 17, 2020, 01:33:47 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 21, 2020, 12:56:15 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 25, 2020, 02:09:03 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/feb/25/england-cricket-the-hundred-2030-the-spin
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 26, 2020, 06:49:08 PM
Great for the Women's T20 World Cup that the Aussies have been upset by India in the first game.
It was a delight to watch Yadav, a 5'1" dot of a person, get 4 Aussie wickets bowling wrist-spin at less than 40 mph. She was only denied a 5-for by dint of the fact that an lbw was called a no-ball because she bow;ed it so slowly it bounced twice.
And a terrific performance by Pakistan to beat the Windies, who looked as though they took the result for granted.
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 28, 2020, 11:31:06 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 29, 2020, 10:40:59 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 01, 2020, 11:16:27 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on March 03, 2020, 04:05:34 PM
Utterly crackers not to have a spare day available.
Post by: UK Redsox on March 04, 2020, 09:43:58 AM
Looks like we could go out of the T20 World Cup. A tropical storm is heading for Sydney on Thursday, and in the event of a no decision India would go through as they topped their group. Likewise SA in the other semi, though there is a chance the rain might have stopped by then.
Utterly crackers not to have a spare day available.
Yep, makes no sense
Post by: JD on March 05, 2020, 07:06:09 AM
Post by: Ugo on March 05, 2020, 09:11:18 AM
Game called off and England eliminated. What a farce having no reserve day.I have just been reading it’s the same for the men’s tournament later this year.
Post by: olaftab on March 05, 2020, 09:41:18 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2020, 10:37:07 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 05, 2020, 07:01:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 05, 2020, 07:55:12 PM
I think the farce is not having a reserve day for the semi-final, 2 days washed out and fine, go with the established rules, but there should be an attempt to get the game played if possible.Well yes they should always endeavour to play but due to whatever constraints it was clear before the tournament started that in case of no play group winners will qualify. England did not win the group so indirectly it was decided on the field of play.
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2020, 09:00:24 PM
I think the farce is not having a reserve day for the semi-final, 2 days washed out and fine, go with the established rules, but there should be an attempt to get the game played if possible.Well yes they should always endeavour to play but due to whatever constraints it was clear before the tournament started that in case of no play group winners will qualify. England did not win the group so indirectly it was decided on the field of play.
I don't disagree, I just think that it's poor for an international tournament, in a sport that is so heavily reliant on weather conditions, to not bother with any continuity plan to give the games every chance to be completed. People have travelled literally halfway around the world to watch the tournament the least the ICC could do is try their hardest to give them something to watch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 05, 2020, 09:13:46 PM
Post by: JD on March 06, 2020, 07:18:57 AM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on March 18, 2020, 06:21:52 AM
I used to have a spreadsheet of the next x years of international cricket (off cricinfo I think) but that seems to have expired when the new test series tournament started.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 18, 2020, 08:55:19 AM
https://www.icc-cricket.com/media-releases/742353
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 28, 2020, 08:52:34 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 28, 2020, 01:12:10 PM
Still, could be worse. Amfy and her Northern imbecile husband had booked to go to Sri Lanka. ☹
Post by: Villan For Life on April 12, 2020, 07:39:36 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2020, 10:36:38 AM
First Test v West Indies: 8-12 July, Southampton
Second Test v West Indies: 16-20 July, Old Trafford
Third Test v West Indies: 24-28 July, Old Trafford
Post by: PGW on June 03, 2020, 02:23:35 PM
Pleased i suppose with the additional news this morning that 3 players refusing to travel due to Covid. No blame to them for that
but Hetmyer probably alongside Darren Bravo two of the players looking forward to watching, Paul the keeper the 3rd one not coming
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2020, 04:30:30 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2020, 08:48:24 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53081052
Quote
Three teams playing in the same match, eight players per side and some international stars - a new cricket format will make its debut in South Africa this month.
Welcome to 3TeamCricket, which will be the first live sporting event in South Africa since the nation went into coronavirus lockdown in March.
Three teams will compete for the Solidarity Cup at Centurion Park in Gauteng on 27 June to help raise funds for those involved in cricket who have suffered during the pandemic.
The Eagles are led by ex-South Africa captain AB de Villiers, pace bowler Kagiso Rabada will captain the Kingfishers and wicketkeeper Quinton de Kock takes charge of the Kites.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2020, 09:43:44 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53015088
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 18, 2020, 02:36:46 PM
No it won't.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2020, 04:00:38 PM
"This will be a game changer".
No it won't.
Made me think of this
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2020, 09:45:48 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 04, 2020, 02:16:38 PM
"This will be a game changer".
No it won't.
SA cricket is in dire financial trouble and their T20 competition has been a flop, so guess they need to try something different.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 10:35:54 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 10:55:54 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 11:10:03 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 11:10:38 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 11:17:44 AM
Michael Holding what a fucking legend.
I'm working, so currently have Simon, Tuffers and Vaughan on the radio
What's 'Whispering Death' been up to ?
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Michael Holding what a fucking legend.
I'm working, so currently have Simon, Tuffers and Vaughan on the radio
What's 'Whispering Death' been up to ?
Talking about BLM, as powerful a statement about the situation as I've heard from anyone.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
EDIT - Available on the Sky Sports Cricket Twitter feed
https://twitter.com/SkyCricket
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 11:43:38 AM
This covers most of it but it's holding hearing him say it is so much better than reading it.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 11:57:05 AM
Must be more rain expecting soon, because it's dry at the moment
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 12:14:08 PM
Post by: Rory on July 08, 2020, 12:57:56 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 08, 2020, 01:27:25 PM
Here's something that I hadn't thought about......no neutral Umpires in the Tests
I don't like this.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 02:08:32 PM
Here's something that I hadn't thought about......no neutral Umpires in the Tests
I don't like this.
3 reviews as well
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 02:11:24 PM
Lose three or four in this session and the decision to bat will look bad
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2020, 02:15:19 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
The three reviews is because of the non-neutral umpires.Here's something that I hadn't thought about......no neutral Umpires in the Tests
I don't like this.
3 reviews as well
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 02:24:39 PM
I'm not watching at the moment but cannot fathom why they won the toss and decided to bat? Can someone explain please?It is an odd one. I can only assume it's because it's Stokes' first Test as captain and he gone with the 'if in doubt, bat' adage. Looked a bowl first day to me. The inevitable rain breaks would be perfect for bowling our quicks in short, fast spells.
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2020, 02:28:48 PM
I'm not watching at the moment but cannot fathom why they won the toss and decided to bat? Can someone explain please?It is an odd one. I can only assume it's because it's Stokes' first Test as captain and he gone with the 'if in doubt, bat' adage. Looked a bowl first day to me. The inevitable rain breaks would be perfect for bowling our quicks in short, fast spells.
Many thanks Hilts. I suspect you're right and with the weather the way it is, bowling seemed more sensible.
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 02:32:26 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
I'm not sure what I think about the decision to bat or the decision to leave the ball for the wicket, both look wrong in hindsight but I can see why they did it.
That ball was far to close to leave, especially as the other opener had just about escaped an appeal for LBW when not playing a shot
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 02:42:38 PM
I'm not sure what I think about the decision to bat or the decision to leave the ball for the wicket, both look wrong in hindsight but I can see why they did it.
That ball was far to close to leave, especially as the other opener had just about escaped an appeal for LBW when not playing a shot
It was but there didn't seem to be all that much movement so I can understand wanting to play safe and avoid taking an edge. I think that was the problem, he was so concerned about the outside edge that he wasn't watching out for the in-seamer as much as he should've.
Aside from that it looked like the shot of someone who hasn't been in the middle for months.
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 02:48:56 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2020, 02:53:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 08, 2020, 03:06:14 PM
Off again. Looks like a longer break this time
Yeah, I've turned it off for a while this time, I suspect we're not seeing any play before Tea.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 03:06:47 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 08, 2020, 03:11:19 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 08, 2020, 04:07:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2020, 04:33:37 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 08, 2020, 04:43:10 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2020, 11:08:10 AM
40 non-English openers have reached that milestone during the same period
Just shows the problems that England have had since Strauss retired
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2020, 12:10:58 PM
Burns went LBW to a very good delivery that seemed to be going down leg but really gripped the pitch and came back pretty sharply.
Both from Gabriel who has looked very good and is getting swing and seam. I can't help but think that I'd rather see Jimmy and Jof bowling in these conditions than watch us trying to sneak up to 250-300
England 63-3 with Crawley and Stokes trying to restart things.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2020, 01:07:18 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2020, 02:07:13 PM
From the bits I've seen, Windies seam attack looks pretty useful.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2020, 03:54:49 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 09, 2020, 05:18:45 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 09, 2020, 05:22:28 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2020, 05:25:23 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 09, 2020, 05:35:44 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2020, 06:09:57 PM
I think you've misspelt championship winning legend in your comments there cd
Pfft, you have to win a treble to gain legendary status at Edgbaston!!
Watching the highlights now and the umpires had a shocking day by the looks of it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 10, 2020, 12:06:41 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 03:56:31 PM
Wood in particular hasn't been threatening enough for me.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Archer and Wood have been pretty poor, showing that blistering pace isn't all that important in English conditions. I think 1 or the other would've been a better decision.
Wood in particular hasn't been threatening enough for me.
Quite right. Archer has at least varied his pace but Wood has been predictable. And he's gone for a few too.
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 04:39:35 PM
Archer and Wood have been pretty poor, showing that blistering pace isn't all that important in English conditions. I think 1 or the other would've been a better decision.
Wood in particular hasn't been threatening enough for me.
Quite right. Archer has at least varied his pace but Wood has been predictable. And he's gone for a few too.
I think there are 2 types of seam bowler, guys who are for an impact and should bowl in 3-4 over spells and guys who like a longer spell to set things up. The issue with the team in this test is that we've got 3 of the former and it doesn't like fully balanced. Broad or Woakes in for Wood would've given us another who can dig in for a long session and build pressure. If we had a more experienced spinner we could get away with it but for all his natural talent Bess isn't ready to do that job.
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 05:01:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 05:39:19 PM
Wood is looking a bit better, just gone for a 4 but he's at least trying to play with his length.
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 06:10:38 PM
14 overs to bat this evening, the runs don't matter, we can't lose a wicket in this session.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 10, 2020, 07:03:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 10, 2020, 07:28:42 PM
Very impressive from Burns and Sibley.
Agreed, did very well in a tricky spell and set things up well for tomorrow. It's still a tough game to win from here but Bess on day 5 will be a key weapon, pitch is already looking dusty at times.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 11, 2020, 12:37:46 AM
Archer and Wood have been pretty poor, showing that blistering pace isn't all that important in English conditions. I think 1 or the other would've been a better decision.
Wood in particular hasn't been threatening enough for me.
Spot on. Still find the decision to drop Broad a strange one in home conditions.
Post by: olaftab on July 11, 2020, 12:12:56 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 11, 2020, 12:51:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 03:15:09 PM
Lets put some pressure back on them by making them start watching the scoreboard.
Post by: Risso on July 11, 2020, 03:47:29 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 04:40:33 PM
Typical soft dismissal for Denly.
I'd drop him when Root comes back, getting a start and not converting becomes a problem when it's happening almost every match and it's usually through an awful shot. Crawley is much younger and looks a better player for me. I actually really like the look of Burns, Sibley, Crawley and Root as the top 4 and then behind that Stokes, Buttler, Pope and Bess is a strong middle order as well. Even better all of them are young enough to be around for a few seasons so we can tak some time to find players to bring through around them as the next wave.
On the game we're doing ok, I'd like a bit of a counter attack before the new ball but either way we should finish the day with a lead over 150 and some wickets in the bag, then every over we push towards lunch nudges us closer to the win and lowers the chance of them taking the match. Aside from a couple of poor shots this has been a brilliant display of playing the match conditions after a tough first innings.
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 06:16:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2020, 07:00:55 PM
https://youtu.be/ujsi8ksX-eg
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2020, 07:06:56 PM
Athers stitched up by a rogue message :)
https://youtu.be/ujsi8ksX-eg
That was funny, Rob Key pissing himself laughing in the background went on for about 2 minutes.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 11, 2020, 07:07:07 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on July 11, 2020, 07:56:19 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 11, 2020, 08:02:12 PM
Was any justification given for selecting to bat on the first day? Is the pitch expected to be unplayable tomorrow?The ball kept low a few times today, and there were a couple of spitters too. It won't be easy tomorrow, especially if we could somehow get 200+ ahead.
Post by: Ads on July 11, 2020, 10:03:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2020, 11:46:03 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 12:02:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2020, 12:15:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 12:26:36 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 12, 2020, 12:55:30 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 12, 2020, 01:52:25 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 03:12:34 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 03:19:18 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 04:33:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 04:49:02 PM
England have had a go, and Archer has been magnificent, but we've missed a few chances and you can't afford that in a low chase. Need an epic collapse from here.
Indeed, needed to take the chances we got, the Buttler drop being the big one we missed out on.
Post by: Risso on July 12, 2020, 04:55:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 05:35:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2020, 05:47:12 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 12, 2020, 05:55:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 12, 2020, 05:58:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 12, 2020, 07:53:27 PM
People will talk about the toss and Broad / Wood but they outplayed us and fully deserved the win.
Wouldn't say they have outplayed us over the whole piece. You don't win many matches if you get a well below par first innings score. That and the tail completely folding in the second innings cost us dearly.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2020, 09:13:44 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 12, 2020, 11:42:22 PM
I always want England to win, but if we have to lose to anyone I’m glad it’s the Windies. World cricket needs the Windies to be good and Jason Holder is a mighty impressive player and leader.
World cricket does indeed need a strong West Indian side, but to be fair they've been their own worst enemies a lot of the time, particularly their own board.
I was quite impressed with them last time they were here, once they'd d got that awful performance in the day/night test at Edgbaston out of the way and they look a pretty decent outfit this time around. Their seam attack looks more than useful and agree about Holder, captains the side very well.
Post by: Rory on July 13, 2020, 09:21:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 13, 2020, 11:04:20 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 13, 2020, 11:10:21 PM
I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
I think Wood struggled and I'm nervous of him playing back to back tests so I'd bring Broad back in along with Root. The 3rd test is close behind so we can look again after that.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 13, 2020, 11:22:08 PM
They were talking about this on Sky. The reason Wood for Broad was odd is because most commentators thought England would save Wood for the pacier tracks at Old Trafford. It would be equally odd to drop him now. After all, anyone can have a bad game and if the tracks are pacier up there then he could do well. Three tests in a row would be pushing it though. Broad in for the third test maybe?I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
I think Wood struggled and I'm nervous of him playing back to back tests so I'd bring Broad back in along with Root. The 3rd test is close behind so we can look again after that.
Post by: Rory on July 13, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2020, 06:52:46 AM
Subject to the pitch and conditions being typical of Old Trafford I’d stick with the same bowling attack.
Post by: simboy on July 14, 2020, 07:13:35 AM
I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
I think Wood struggled and I'm nervous of him playing back to back tests so I'd bring Broad back in along with Root. The 3rd test is close behind so we can look again after that.
I really rate Wood, but agree that he was probably an unwise choice for the first test. I wonder if the selectors were trying to make a starement that nobody is undroppable - apart from Jimmy, Stokes and Root.
Actually i think Anderson will be "rested" this test. Injuries are starting to catch up with him. Replaced by Woakes, strengthening the batting line up and is a better bowler in England than abroad, statistically. Broad for Wood? Maybe although I thought Wood bowled OK. Question is can Wood last two tests in a row with a four day turn around.
Root back in for Crawley, who's time will come, and we look as well balanced as we can save for perhaps Buttler being replaced by Foakes ...
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2020, 08:54:12 AM
I know that batting Crawley at Four was a hint that he'd give way for Root, but he's playing better than Denley
Post by: simboy on July 14, 2020, 09:35:08 AM
The first innings I think Denly did a good [if not spectacular] job at 0-1, I don't think Crawley would necessarily have done. I like Crawley but he benefited from the hard work the top three in the second innings, which is exactly what the 4,5 and 6 would hope to do.
Denly did ok, got set and should have gone on.
I also think Crawley is a future Test no. 3 [or opener] but I would prefer him to start at 4,5 or 6 . I also think Crawley has a lot more potential than Denly. We do have a habit of finding good young prospects, praising them to the skies for them to crash unceremoniously.
Crawley, for all the Vaughan fanfare has a Test average of 31 [as opposed to 29.5 for Denly although admittedly from more tests] and Denly has faced on average more balls. At 0-1 I would rather see someone coming to the crease who would look to get 29 off 80 balls than 31 off 60 balls.
The stated aim is to build an Ashes winning side next year. A solid number 3 will be imperative. It is, I would argue, the most specialised position in the batting line up, as it can set a tone or save an inning. Our best number 3 for many years was Trott. I never felt nervous if he was walking in at 3-1 or 120 -1. I feel less nervous with Denly than I do with Crawley at the moment.
It's just my current view and not one I am prepared to die in a ditch for
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2020, 10:57:13 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2020, 11:47:48 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2020, 11:57:44 AM
They were talking about this on Sky. The reason Wood for Broad was odd is because most commentators thought England would save Wood for the pacier tracks at Old Trafford. It would be equally odd to drop him now. After all, anyone can have a bad game and if the tracks are pacier up there then he could do well. Three tests in a row would be pushing it though. Broad in for the third test maybe?I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
I think Wood struggled and I'm nervous of him playing back to back tests so I'd bring Broad back in along with Root. The 3rd test is close behind so we can look again after that.
This is true but don't forget the 3rd test is a few days later and also at old trafford so Wood can come in for that one, giving him a slightly longer recovery period between games which i'd say is fair given his injury problems over the last 3-4 years. Broad in for Wood for the 2nd and wood back in for Jimmy for the 3rd would be my choice, I'd leave the rest because I think the attack did a decent job.
Further up I'd move Crawley to 3 and drop Denly but that's it. Buttler gets another chance because he looked the 'rustiest' player in the team for me, if he can't shake that off in the 2nd test then I'd think about what to do with him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2020, 07:17:55 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 14, 2020, 07:34:58 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2020, 07:42:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2020, 08:54:09 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2020, 09:19:26 PM
See again I’m not anti-Crawley at all, and I’m hoping he’s a long term option, but his record (acknowledging a small sample size) is no better than Denly’s. Denly has made good and important scores.
As above Crawley has shown consistent improvement. Denly has shown he can get starts but has done a shocking job of converting this 10-30 starts into even 50s let alone match defining scores. Given the respective ages I see no reason to keep Denly in.
Post by: Rory on July 14, 2020, 09:27:58 PM
See again I’m not anti-Crawley at all, and I’m hoping he’s a long term option, but his record (acknowledging a small sample size) is no better than Denly’s. Denly has made good and important scores.
As above Crawley has shown consistent improvement. Denly has shown he can get starts but has done a shocking job of converting this 10-30 starts into even 50s let alone match defining scores. Given the respective ages I see no reason to keep Denly in.
That's my view as well. I guess we'll see, but on a practical level, how many players are actually in 'the bubble'? Say we got 5 cases of food poisoning (unlikely) would we have the players to replace them?
Post by: tomd2103 on July 14, 2020, 10:40:35 PM
Yeah I think if you look at scores alone Denly doesn’t look great, but it’s the crease occupation he’s done well at. I think he’s done alright in his role.
I agree that Denly has done a decent job at three, but seems to be the one who the knives are out for at the moment. He probably just hasn't got those big couple of scores that would have kept the pressure off him a bit.
Saying all that, I fully expect him to be dropped at Old Trafford with Root coming back in at four and Crawley moving up to three. As I said, I think some of the criticism of Denly has been harsh, but I don't think he could have too many complaints if he gets dropped.
I expect Broad will come back in for Wood and the spotlight will then shift to Buttler.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2020, 09:32:50 AM
See again I’m not anti-Crawley at all, and I’m hoping he’s a long term option, but his record (acknowledging a small sample size) is no better than Denly’s. Denly has made good and important scores.
As above Crawley has shown consistent improvement. Denly has shown he can get starts but has done a shocking job of converting this 10-30 starts into even 50s let alone match defining scores. Given the respective ages I see no reason to keep Denly in.
That's my view as well. I guess we'll see, but on a practical level, how many players are actually in 'the bubble'? Say we got 5 cases of food poisoning (unlikely) would we have the players to replace them?
I think that the bubble squad was around 30. As far as I'm aware, they're all still there. There was talk of Lawrence possibly playing in the 1st test.
Woakes and Curran were both on 12th man duty
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2020, 12:50:08 PM
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Morgans-Men-Englands-Cricket-Humiliation/dp/1911630938/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=morgan%27s+men&qid=1594813674&sr=8-2
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51KJHUhBXVL._SX334_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on July 15, 2020, 01:25:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2020, 02:39:58 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 15, 2020, 02:49:49 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 15, 2020, 06:14:09 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2020, 06:53:34 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 15, 2020, 06:57:01 PM
Looks like Broad and then Woakes or Curran as the replacements. I'm ok with that, I didn't think Wood or Jimmy would play all 3 anyway, for different reasons they're both injury risks that aren't worth taking given the options we have.Ollie Robinson was mentioned.
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2020, 07:00:21 PM
Looks like Broad and then Woakes or Curran as the replacements. I'm ok with that, I didn't think Wood or Jimmy would play all 3 anyway, for different reasons they're both injury risks that aren't worth taking given the options we have.Ollie Robinson was mentioned.
He's in the 13 but I'd be surprised if he leapfrogs the other 3 given they need game time. In a normal season he may have got the game though.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 15, 2020, 10:29:30 PM
Steve’s as confused as the rest of us :)
(https://i.ibb.co/Z1XSgRW/628-E0269-D34-D-4-C1-A-B78-D-3-AC691366-A2-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z1XSgRW)
Post by: UK Redsox on July 16, 2020, 08:24:00 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2020, 10:09:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 10:11:09 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 16, 2020, 11:53:02 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2020, 12:05:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2020, 12:11:01 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2020, 12:12:21 PM
I'm really interested in why Archer went home, was it to collect something he needed/wanted or was it just because he could?I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was to pick something up.
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2020, 12:18:18 PM
I'm really interested in why Archer went home, was it to collect something he needed/wanted or was it just because he could?I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was to pick something up.
I saw something suggesting as much but it didn't seem to be certain.
Post by: paul_e on July 16, 2020, 01:31:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2020, 02:14:50 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2020, 02:38:30 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 16, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 16, 2020, 03:31:28 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 16, 2020, 04:07:22 PM
They think that Lawrence and Bracey are still with the Test Squad but they don't really know who's in Manchester
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 12:19:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 12:26:23 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2020, 12:27:07 PM
If they didn't want players to go home between tests, would it not have made more sense to have all the tests at the same venue?
I was surprised that the players weren't transported from Southampton to Manchester by coach as a team
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2020, 12:28:57 PM
To some, this would be like watching paint dry but I'm loving it. It helps that Dom Sibley is Bear but watching him bat is hypnotic.
Sibley's performance might bode well for the future but I don't think that it's the best way of winning what could be a rain shortened match
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 12:45:03 PM
To some, this would be like watching paint dry but I'm loving it. It helps that Dom Sibley is Bear but watching him bat is hypnotic.
Sibley's performance might bode well for the future but I don't think that it's the best way of winning what could be a rain shortened match
It will be if we step up from here. If we bat like this all day then I agree with you. Using 2 full days for the first innings is fine if you put 450-500 on the board by doing it, 350-400 and you're almost guaranteeing the draw.
Post by: Ads on July 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 12:48:06 PM
Post by: simboy on July 17, 2020, 12:48:53 PM
To some, this would be like watching paint dry but I'm loving it. It helps that Dom Sibley is Bear but watching him bat is hypnotic.
Sibley's performance might bode well for the future but I don't think that it's the best way of winning what could be a rain shortened match
Stokes is not going much quicker so it's clearly a difficult pitch to score runs, the Windies didn't take the new ball until the 95th over so batting with a cloth ball. If they end up at tea at about 400 Sibley and Stokes will have done an excellent job.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 17, 2020, 12:50:01 PM
Stokes is not going much quicker so it's clearly a difficult pitch to score runs, the Windies didn't take the new ball until the 95th over so batting with a cloth ball. If they end up at tea at about 400 Sibley and Stokes will have done an excellent job.
Yep, the only way I can see England winning this is to only bat once
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 12:54:24 PM
Post by: simboy on July 17, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Stokes is not going much quicker so it's clearly a difficult pitch to score runs, the Windies didn't take the new ball until the 95th over so batting with a cloth ball. If they end up at tea at about 400 Sibley and Stokes will have done an excellent job.
Yep, the only way I can see England winning this is to only bat once
We will see. Following on is not what teams like to do nowadays. The miles put into the legs of the WIndies bowlers yesterday and today will win this game if we are going to win it. if we finish 150 in front on first inning a quick 170 second innings with a day to bowl them out may be very interesting. We will give ourselves that option.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 01:12:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 01:36:22 PM
As far as Sky is concerned, I don't miss Gower or Botham one bit.
I agree, I like the team they have now, Bumble is a bit of a clown but he still adds something. Ebony Rainford-Brent seems to have been the biggest beneficiary for the extra time that's been freed up and I think she's doing a great job in the '3rd man' role.
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 01:50:55 PM
I'd let Sibley carry on as he is to an extent and carry his bat through.
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 02:20:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 02:35:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 03:01:44 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 03:04:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 03:23:18 PM
Ebony RB and Holding are damning Sibley with faint praise here. The word selfish was used, not playing for the team. What a load of old cock.
I can sort of understand the point, with rain expected tomorrow he did take a lot of time out of the game but I don't think he was wrong in doing it until Lunch, this session I think he needed to get going a bit sooner but overall i think he's done a good job for the team and it should allow people like Buttler, Woakes and Bess to come in and swing hard without any real concerns.
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2020, 03:28:26 PM
Chase is a poor spinner but he's getting a lot of movement here, Bess could be a lot more important than we'd have expected in this match.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 03:33:57 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 04:35:09 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 04:48:27 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 17, 2020, 05:33:02 PM
Game's going nowhere at the moment.
It's been a bit tippy tappy for the last hour or so, not sure this helps England too much with a dodgy forecast weather wise tomorrow. Get on with it, or get the West Indies into bat. There does still seem to be something in the wicket for the bowlers though.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 17, 2020, 05:48:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2020, 09:00:14 PM
Stokes is bloody brilliant.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2020, 10:33:14 AM
Post by: Steve67 on July 19, 2020, 01:47:41 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 02:10:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 02:29:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 04:54:22 PM
Very nearly 6 down, Curran smacked Chase on the pads but it pitched about 2mm outside leg and the wicket was overturned, very unlucky because it was a belter of a delivery.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 04:58:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 05:02:00 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 05:09:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 05:11:02 PM
Nice to see Broad looking like himself now after a poor morning session, he's been excellent with the new ball.
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 06:09:17 PM
Happy for Woakes, he's bowled well enough to deserve a couple.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:11:36 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:13:45 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:21:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 06:23:45 PM
Buttler and Stokes open the batting. This could be fun.Probably the right decision, I think I'd have been tempted to keep Burns in and just promote one but he can always come in at 3 if need be.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:26:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 06:31:26 PM
That said, England can probably afford to use 10 overs tomorrow morning which means scoring at 8-9 an over.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:35:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 06:48:56 PM
I don't think they will, but would you bring Foakes in for the 3rd test?
I'm not sure, I'm a massive fan of Buttler because at his best he's a brilliant wildcard in the middle order but he's nowhere near his best right now. On top of that I think pushing him up the order as a gamble and then dropping him for failing doesn't look great. I reckon keep him in and if he doesn't deliver in the final test then Foakes comes in for the Pakistan series.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 19, 2020, 06:55:25 PM
I'm not sure, I'm a massive fan of Buttler because at his best he's a brilliant wildcard in the middle order but he's nowhere near his best right now. On top of that I think pushing him up the order as a gamble and then dropping him for failing doesn't look great.Yes, that's how it might be perceived but in reality his Test form has been substandard for quite a while. I was surprised to read just now that Buttler is 30 in a couple of months.
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 06:58:08 PM
right now the strike rate is about 75%. If we plan for 10 overs tomorrow that's about 250-260 for the chase in 85-86 overs. I think that would be an interesting situation then because all 4 results would be on the table.
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2020, 06:59:23 PM
I'm not sure, I'm a massive fan of Buttler because at his best he's a brilliant wildcard in the middle order but he's nowhere near his best right now. On top of that I think pushing him up the order as a gamble and then dropping him for failing doesn't look great.Yes, that's how it might be perceived but in reality his Test form has been substandard for quite a while. I was surprised to read just now that Buttler is 30 in a couple of months.
I agree, that's what makes it a tough question, I think part of his problem is that he doesn't play enough county cricket.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 19, 2020, 07:05:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2020, 07:56:00 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 19, 2020, 09:37:52 PM
I think Foakes is excellent, I’d want him playing in India.
Buttler always looks a bit stiff behind the wickets, ooh er missus. Foakes is just a better wicketkeeper.
Good afternoon and evening sesh from England, hope we bat for an hour in the morning and have a right good go at them.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:03:45 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:16:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:44:17 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
Are they now allowed 3 unsuccessful reviews?They are for now because home umpires are being used.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:49:04 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2020, 01:29:20 PM
And there it is. The commentators keep wanking on about how talented Shai Hope is but his Test record is woeful. One great test against England, and in his 31 other tests, next to fuck all.
He's an exceptional white ball player who looks like he should be a fantastic red ball player but who just doesn't get the game time in red ball cricket. In the commentary yesterday they were talking about Hope's last first class match and it's nearly 3 1/2 years ago because he's been playing white ball or test matches.
It's the same situation Buttler has suffered with for the last few years.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2020, 01:30:41 PM
Are they now allowed 3 unsuccessful reviews?They are for now because home umpires are being used.
Ah ok cheers.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 20, 2020, 01:34:16 PM
Are they now allowed 3 unsuccessful reviews?They are for now because home umpires are being used.
They are, but the reviews don't reset after 80 overs like they used to.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
He's an exceptional white ball player who looks like he should be a fantastic red ball player but who just doesn't get the game time in red ball cricket. In the commentary yesterday they were talking about Hope's last first class match and it's nearly 3 1/2 years ago because he's been playing white ball or test matches.They just put this question to Holding during lunch and, for what it's worth, he didn't subscribe to that view.
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2020, 03:06:44 PM
He's an exceptional white ball player who looks like he should be a fantastic red ball player but who just doesn't get the game time in red ball cricket. In the commentary yesterday they were talking about Hope's last first class match and it's nearly 3 1/2 years ago because he's been playing white ball or test matches.They just put this question to Holding during lunch and, for what it's worth, he didn't subscribe to that view.
He might be right but I do think it makes it harder to find form and there are too many white ball matches for the top players.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 20, 2020, 03:11:45 PM
He might be right but I do think it makes it harder to find form and there are too many white ball matches for the top players.There's a good piece about Hope on cricinfo that was written a few days ago. Apparently, of all top 4 batsmen in test cricket since 2018 Hope has the worst average - 18.69 - and one 50 from 24 innings. I know the Windies don't have great options in their top order but that's a shocking stat.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29467679/why-shai-hope-headingley-opus-not-sustain-much-longer (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29467679/why-shai-hope-headingley-opus-not-sustain-much-longer)
Post by: UK Redsox on July 20, 2020, 03:24:58 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 20, 2020, 05:45:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2020, 05:54:57 PM
He might be right but I do think it makes it harder to find form and there are too many white ball matches for the top players.There's a good piece about Hope on cricinfo that was written a few days ago. Apparently, of all top 4 batsmen in test cricket since 2018 Hope has the worst average - 18.69 - and one 50 from 24 innings. I know the Windies don't have great options in their top order but that's a shocking stat.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29467679/why-shai-hope-headingley-opus-not-sustain-much-longer (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29467679/why-shai-hope-headingley-opus-not-sustain-much-longer)
Absolutely, it's pretty amazing that he's been given so long. The problem is if they drop him he will almost certainly become a t20 specialist playing in the various franchise leagues around the world and be lost to the test team. It's the only thing I can think of which keeps him around the team in hope more than anything.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2020, 06:19:53 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 20, 2020, 06:24:16 PM
Post by: Richard on July 20, 2020, 06:44:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2020, 06:53:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2020, 07:25:09 PM
Be interesting to see how they rotate the bowlers for the decider as the 3 in this match out performed the 3 in the last test in my opinion.
Bowlers are tough, I'd say there are 5 quicks that can all justify their spot (excluding Stokes who I'd pick on his batting alone regardless) after the 2 matches.
Woakes got 5 at an average of 15 and Broad got 6 at 18, dropping either of them would be insane. After that Stokes went off with an injury, even if he's ok it might be worth reducing his bowling load (or removing it completely) by bringing in another bowler but then who goes out? Buttler or Pope would be the obvious options but the former in particular creates extra problems. Either way do that and you can bring in Jimmy and then have a choice between Curran and Archer (which I really wouldn't want to make).
Post by: UK Redsox on July 21, 2020, 11:19:51 AM
I expect to see Leach in for Bess, but I've no idea what they'll do about the rest of the bowling lineup.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2020, 12:08:26 PM
Curran is always the player they look at, but he always makes an impact.
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 01:33:43 PM
I agree it's harsh on Curran but he is still pretty expensive for the amount of wickets he gets.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 21, 2020, 01:36:50 PM
As I said, dropping Woakes or Broad would be harsh given their figures and you'd expect Jimmy to get the call given where the match is being played so Jof in for Stokes and shift the order about? Seems risky but if Stokes isn't fit enough to bowl then we would need someone else in even if Stokes plays as 'just' a batsman.
I agree it's harsh on Curran but he is still pretty expensive for the amount of wickets he gets.
Stokes said he was fine and it was just stiffness
Post by: UK Redsox on July 21, 2020, 01:53:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2020, 02:45:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2020, 04:01:36 PM
As I said, dropping Woakes or Broad would be harsh given their figures and you'd expect Jimmy to get the call given where the match is being played so Jof in for Stokes and shift the order about? Seems risky but if Stokes isn't fit enough to bowl then we would need someone else in even if Stokes plays as 'just' a batsman.
I agree it's harsh on Curran but he is still pretty expensive for the amount of wickets he gets.
Stokes said he was fine and it was just stiffness
I know, but with another 3 match series starting on the 5th and 6 ODIs to play by the start of September it's a very crowded schedule so I can see them picking him as a batsman only a couple of times, especially given he was suffering at times in this match, his batting is too important to us right now to risk over-bowling him.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 21, 2020, 06:32:55 PM
Stokes plays as a batsman regardless for me.
Absolutely, comfortably the best batsman in the side at the moment.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 22, 2020, 08:54:34 AM
Therefore, one of the batsmen needs to be more than just a part-time bowler
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2020, 07:12:53 PM
Post by: simboy on July 23, 2020, 09:24:14 PM
Stokes plays as a batsman regardless for me.
I’d bat him at 3 or 4 if he can’t bowl. I might look at batting Crawley at 5. I would have wanted Leach in for Bess, you need a spinner for Old Trafford, and a left armer would be a better bet on a turning track against right handlers.
That leaves a bowler short and Buttler not good enough to bat at six. We miss Bairstow here, who can bat at six in a test side allowing a weaker seven and eight in Curran and Woakes.
Anyway, as a bowling attack Archer, Broad or Jimmy, ( can’t play both with Stokes not fit to bowl) Bess, Woakes and Curran is how I’d go. However I would really need Buttler to come to the party.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2020, 10:50:04 AM
Post by: simboy on July 24, 2020, 10:57:51 AM
Surprised by that selection. There is a lot of bowling in there.
As I said above, need Buttler to deliver.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 11:01:40 AM
Woakes could do with a score too. Since he made his ton a couple of years ago, he's only made 5 double-figure scores and no 50s (in about 15 innings).Surprised by that selection. There is a lot of bowling in there.
As I said above, need Buttler to deliver.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 11:19:49 AM
Post by: Rory on July 24, 2020, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 11:43:40 AM
Post by: Rory on July 24, 2020, 11:44:44 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 12:17:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2020, 01:22:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2020, 02:24:53 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 03:18:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 24, 2020, 03:53:44 PM
Burns gone now. Very sharp catch at slip by the man mountain. England in the shit a bit here at 122 for 4 with Jos Buttler tip toeing to the crease.
I dunno how poor a position this is, England have been great but we have got a few to come who can score a few runs. 250-300 is probably a decent score today from the bits I've seen, especially with the loaded bowling attack we've gone with.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 04:09:28 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 05:11:22 PM
Post by: Rory on July 24, 2020, 05:43:27 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 05:44:49 PM
Really important for Buttler to get a score. He's playing watchfully, looks determined.He does. Very intense. It's working for him so far though.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 06:34:52 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 24, 2020, 06:47:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2020, 07:05:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 24, 2020, 08:09:16 PM
The Windies looked poor in the last session, totally uninterested and they let the game get away.
That's why i didn't think we were in such a poor position, any stand was going to be game changing because this pitch isn't going to be nice on Monday and Tuesday.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 24, 2020, 08:15:56 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 24, 2020, 11:33:42 PM
It was a poor position because when an under-pressure Buttler came to the crease the Windies knew that one more wicket and they were into the bowlers. I bet they're ruing not picking Joseph.
That depends on what an average score on here is, I think this will be a low scoring game, that's all I meant.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 25, 2020, 11:40:36 AM
Fair enough. You may well be right. I'd bite your hand off for 350 now.It was a poor position because when an under-pressure Buttler came to the crease the Windies knew that one more wicket and they were into the bowlers. I bet they're ruing not picking Joseph.
That depends on what an average score on here is, I think this will be a low scoring game, that's all I meant.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2020, 11:41:29 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 25, 2020, 11:41:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2020, 11:46:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2020, 11:50:08 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2020, 11:55:02 AM
Post by: simboy on July 25, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Curran is the best of the bowlers batting (with Bess). I don’t quite understand why he wasn’t played if they wanted a more “balanced” side.
Still think Buttler is one too high in the order if Woakes follows him at 7.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 25, 2020, 12:37:39 PM
Post by: Rory on July 25, 2020, 01:01:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 25, 2020, 01:04:52 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 25, 2020, 01:07:30 PM
Post by: Rory on July 25, 2020, 01:17:30 PM
369 having been 280 for 8 is a brilliant effort.
Absolutely, and 122-4. Over to the bowlers now.
Post by: paul_e on July 25, 2020, 04:26:01 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 12:50:40 PM
Post by: Rory on July 26, 2020, 01:46:18 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 26, 2020, 02:13:43 PM
ETA: Hope took over very briefly and now Da Silva has come on as sub. First time I've seen a white guy play for the Windies.
ETA: I'd forgotten about Brendan Nash.
Post by: Rory on July 26, 2020, 02:21:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Vaughan made a good point, I thought, about the criticism of Buttler's 'keeping. That for all that batsmen need time at the crease and bowlers need overs in their legs, having to crouch, dive and concentrate for every delivery of the day means enforced lay-offs can be especially difficult for 'keepers, who can't just hide down at fine leg when they're out of touch.
I agree with that, I don't think Buttler is far off with the bat or in the field and he's always been someone who looks like he needs some time in the season before he really gets going.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 26, 2020, 03:16:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 03:25:58 PM
We need to push on here. The forecast for tomorrow is poor and we need runs and a few sessions to bowl them out.
Weather looks fine for Tuesday and if tomorrow turns out as expected there will be 98 overs in the day so so we can use another 45-50 overs (today and the first 40minutes on tuesday) and still have 80+ left to bowl at them.
On that basis I'd take it easy until Tea then try to put 120+ runs on this board in the final session. Don't declare over night and then take a couple of overs on Tuesday before putting them in. I reckon you'd b looking at 375+ in that situation which would take the defeat off the table and by waiting to declare we control what roller gets used on the final morning.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2020, 06:22:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2020, 06:24:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 07:02:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 26, 2020, 08:03:40 PM
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
Post by: Fred Crump on July 26, 2020, 08:31:56 PM
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
Rakheem Cornwall coming in off his long run now ...
Post by: paul_e on July 26, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
yeah, that was a bizarre decision.
Post by: simboy on July 27, 2020, 01:44:01 PM
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
yeah, that was a bizarre decision.
perhaps they didn't have any option regarding the choice of bowlers, Joseph was injured last test wasn't he? I suppose the the batting second was a negative tactic not wanting to lose and, if it all went pair shaped, knowing what they have to do to save the game.
At 122-4 with Stokes, Root, Sibley and Burns all back in the hutch, with Pope and Buttler at the crease it looked an ok call.
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2020, 02:02:21 PM
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
yeah, that was a bizarre decision.
perhaps they didn't have any option regarding the choice of bowlers, Joseph was injured last test wasn't he? I suppose the the batting second was a negative tactic not wanting to lose and, if it all went pair shaped, knowing what they have to do to save the game.
At 122-4 with Stokes, Root, Sibley and Burns all back in the hutch, with Pope and Buttler at the crease it looked an ok call.
I have no issue with the selection, the issue is that if you've got 2 spinners who are likely to be bowling 50-60% of you overs you want to be bowling later in the game in England.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 28, 2020, 12:29:30 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
Really happy for Broad, massive achievement.
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2020, 01:54:03 PM
Great little fact, Broad got his 500th wicket bowling the same guy that Anderson got for his 500th.
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2020, 01:58:05 PM
Great little fact, Broad got his 500th wicket bowling the same guy that Anderson got for his 500th.
He's the Aston Villa of international cricket!
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2020, 02:04:17 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 28, 2020, 02:44:05 PM
England really do have an excellent selection of seam bowlers at the moment. So many options.
Post by: paul_e on July 28, 2020, 02:53:41 PM
Stokes, Bess, Woakes, Broad and Anderson.
Curran, Archer, Leach, Wood and one from Stone or Robinson.
Woakes is bowling superbly here, almost every delivery is dangerous.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 28, 2020, 02:56:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 28, 2020, 02:58:12 PM
West Indies didn't even try to hang around to see if the weather might save them
Post by: hilts_coolerking on July 28, 2020, 03:38:16 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 28, 2020, 10:49:22 PM
Post by: Rory on July 28, 2020, 11:20:57 PM
Apparently the first time they have won a three test series, after being one, down since 1885!
That's an incredible stat if true! I know three-test series' are relatively recent, but still.
Post by: Steve67 on July 29, 2020, 08:17:59 AM
Apparently the first time they have won a three test series, after being one, down since 1885!
That's an incredible stat if true! I know three-test series' are relatively recent, but still.
I heard Ebony say it in commentary having checked it out through Benedict, their stats guy. Apparently, there have been 95, three-day series since that date. It is an incredible stat.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 29, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 30, 2020, 12:23:12 AM
And yes, the Windies batting was largely shite.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2020, 09:24:31 AM
Didn't England beat NZ 2-1 after being one down about ten years ago.
And yes, the Windies batting was largely shite.
I think that's why Holder opted to bowl.
Without Hetmyer and Bravo they were light in the batting.
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 31, 2020, 12:41:56 AM
Post by: fredm on August 01, 2020, 11:34:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2020, 03:53:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 02, 2020, 04:12:40 PM
He looks a hell of a prospect
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2020, 09:36:16 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 05, 2020, 05:52:49 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2020, 04:37:36 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d1/36/a2/d136a215c9151f28df9b533b596b4a3f.jpg)
this series
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2020, 06:09:11 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2020, 06:39:37 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 06, 2020, 09:16:07 AM
Foakes is a better keeper and, for most Test Match circumstances, I think he's a better batting choice.
Post by: paul_e on August 06, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
Post by: Villafirst on August 06, 2020, 10:40:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 05:13:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 05:20:24 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 06, 2020, 05:20:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 05:24:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 05:34:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 05:55:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 06, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 07:09:18 PM
Why are we generally so poor in the first test of a series? I thought we might have some momentum going into this on the back of the Windies series but yet again we have reverted to type.
It’s disappointing. I think in this Test it’s a combination so far. We had a couple of poor sessions with the ball and let Pakistan get 60-70 more than they should have. Pakistan then bowled very well, but having come through it Root threw it away. We have these sloppy periods/decisions that undermine progress.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 06, 2020, 07:26:38 PM
Why are we generally so poor in the first test of a series? I thought we might have some momentum going into this on the back of the Windies series but yet again we have reverted to type.
It’s disappointing. I think in this Test it’s a combination so far. We had a couple of poor sessions with the ball and let Pakistan get 60-70 more than they should have. Pakistan then bowled very well, but having come through it Root threw it away. We have these sloppy periods/decisions that undermine progress.
It goes deeper than that though. We were poor in the first test against the Windies, poor in the first test against South Africa at Christmas, poor in the first Ashes test last summer. Those are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. We don’t seem to turn up until the 2nd test in any series.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2020, 07:38:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 07, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
To be this pathetic in the 1st match of every series is not acceptable.
Post by: simboy on August 07, 2020, 02:30:58 PM
Our batting is far too light and so it’s being proven. It’s a very long tail.
We got away with it last test as Windies were on the plane going home, but Buttler is not a Test 6/keeper and Woakes is certainly not a Test number 7.
If they persist in the view that Buttler will eventually make a Test batsman (and I personally have my doubts) then bat him at 5, Pope at 6, let Bairstow or Foakes keep and bat 7, drop either Anderson Archer or Woakes and balance the side up a little.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2020, 03:52:26 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 07, 2020, 05:54:51 PM
Makes it difficult to balance the side.
For Tests in England, I’d leave Archer out at the moment.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2020, 06:05:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2020, 06:07:06 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 07, 2020, 06:56:26 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 07, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 07, 2020, 07:20:30 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 07, 2020, 10:07:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2020, 11:08:38 AM
We really need Jofra to start hitting his straps a bit more often. I wonder if it’s a bit of a confidence thing.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 08, 2020, 11:46:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2020, 12:13:34 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 08, 2020, 01:23:17 PM
The mentality difference between different formats is mad isn't it? I know all the reasons why but you'd be really confident of knocking off 277 in 50 overs yet this seems a really tall order.
Difference in pitch too, surely? You'd be confident getting that on the first day of a test.
Post by: Risso on August 08, 2020, 02:27:38 PM
The mentality difference between different formats is mad isn't it? I know all the reasons why but you'd be really confident of knocking off 277 in 50 overs yet this seems a really tall order.
Difference in pitch too, surely? You'd be confident getting that on the first day of a test.
Yep that's obviously the main factor and why 4th innings runs chases are usually so hard once they get close to and above 300. Big difference between batting second on a pristine 1 day pitch, and the 4th innings on the final day of a test where 300 overs have been bowled on it.
Post by: Bernie on August 08, 2020, 02:52:43 PM
Post by: Bernie on August 08, 2020, 03:20:01 PM
Root gone. We need a Stokes classic nowSorry
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 08, 2020, 04:24:05 PM
Post by: simboy on August 08, 2020, 04:27:29 PM
This little counter attack is why Buttler plays, doesn't happen as much as any of us would like but he can completely change an innings if he gets it right.
I’d back Bairstow in this situation above Buttler every time. However, if Woakes was at eight and Bairstow at seven with the gloves in this situation I’d be backing England - but I not at the minute
Post by: manic-road on August 08, 2020, 05:05:14 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 08, 2020, 05:31:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2020, 05:41:08 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 08, 2020, 05:46:45 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 08, 2020, 06:30:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 08, 2020, 06:41:24 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 08, 2020, 06:58:10 PM
Great win England. Is it time to say goodbye to Jimmy if the conditions are not right for him and put in the extra batsman now that Stokes CAN bowl?
Woakes, you Villa fan you. Great knock.
Post by: dave shelley on August 08, 2020, 07:01:20 PM
I piled on all the money in my account (paddypower account) on England yesterday at 3/1 against so I am sitting on a mega mountain of cash now. All £48.22 of it.
How you fixed for a few bob Aftab? I'll pay you back...honest.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2020, 07:07:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 08, 2020, 09:45:21 PM
Great honesty from Buttler on his keeping after the game.
If Stokes can bowl in the next test, I’d drop Jimmy or Jofra and bring in Foakes
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 08, 2020, 10:02:16 PM
Great honesty from Buttler on his keeping after the game.
If Stokes can bowl in the next test, I’d drop Jimmy or Jofra and bring in Foakes
Yeah it’s a reasonable shout. I’d drop Jimmy, purely because I think Jofra is a potential point of difference, he needs to get his pace up, in a fairly samey attack. Also Jimmy looked pretty stiff in the field and it’s a short turnaround.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 08, 2020, 10:04:11 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 08, 2020, 10:06:23 PM
Great honesty from Buttler on his keeping after the game.
If Stokes can bowl in the next test, I’d drop Jimmy or Jofra and bring in Foakes
Yeah it’s a reasonable shout. I’d drop Jimmy, purely because I think Jofra is a potential point of difference, he needs to get his pace up, in a fairly samey attack. Also Jimmy looked pretty stiff in the field and it’s a short turnaround.
Calling up Ollie Robinson suggests that there’ll be a change to the bowlers.
Is Wood still in the bubble ?
Whilst it’s good in a way that Bracey is getting experience with the squad, I’d prefer him to be getting runs for The Shire.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 08, 2020, 10:22:33 PM
Post by: Rory on August 09, 2020, 12:10:51 AM
Give it 18 months and Pakistan could well have the best bowling attack in the world by some distance, I was very impressed. But well done England, some fantastic cricket this summer.
Post by: olaftab on August 09, 2020, 12:14:42 AM
Nice one Aftab!Cheers Newby. Didn't know Woakesy is a Villain.
Great win England. Is it time to say goodbye to Jimmy if the conditions are not right for him and put in the extra batsman now that Stokes CAN bowl?
Woakes, you Villa fan you. Great knock.
Post by: olaftab on August 09, 2020, 12:16:24 AM
Sorry don't know who you are I dont mix with paupers..... after today :oI piled on all the money in my account (paddypower account) on England yesterday at 3/1 against so I am sitting on a mega mountain of cash now. All £48.22 of it.How you fixed for a few bob Aftab? I'll pay you back...honest.
Post by: dave shelley on August 09, 2020, 09:05:38 AM
Sorry don't know who you are I dont mix with paupers..... after today :oI piled on all the money in my account (paddypower account) on England yesterday at 3/1 against so I am sitting on a mega mountain of cash now. All £48.22 of it.How you fixed for a few bob Aftab? I'll pay you back...honest.
Damn! Rumbled again.
Post by: Steve67 on August 09, 2020, 09:49:00 AM
Nice one Aftab!Cheers Newby. Didn't know Woakesy is a Villain.
Great win England. Is it time to say goodbye to Jimmy if the conditions are not right for him and put in the extra batsman now that Stokes CAN bowl?
Woakes, you Villa fan you. Great knock.
Yes mate. Makes me like him even more as a cricketer. Him and Ian Bell both villa men.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 09, 2020, 01:46:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 09, 2020, 09:21:24 PM
Nice one Aftab!Cheers Newby. Didn't know Woakesy is a Villain.
Great win England. Is it time to say goodbye to Jimmy if the conditions are not right for him and put in the extra batsman now that Stokes CAN bowl?
Woakes, you Villa fan you. Great knock.
Yes mate. Makes me like him even more as a cricketer. Him and Ian Bell both villa men.
They paraded the Ashes Urn on the pitch at Villa Park in 2015. Woakesy should have brought the CWC trophy to Villa Park too.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 09, 2020, 09:23:36 PM
Hope Stokes and his family are ok.
Suspect it’s his dad’s health again
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 10, 2020, 05:29:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 13, 2020, 12:23:13 PM
Curran in for Archer, which wasn't expected
Looking at the forecast for Southampton, this test will be a bit on/off
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 13, 2020, 12:29:46 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 13, 2020, 02:20:06 PM
Sloppy start. Quite surprised Jimmy got in ahead of Archer. Bowling attack looks pretty samey, but hope it works out.
First two wickets to Jimmy, the fielding has been pretty cack so far. England have dropped two already.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 14, 2020, 10:00:51 AM
3x T20 in Southampton
3x ODI in Manchester
Still waiting on confirmation that the SA women’s team are still coming over.
Post by: manic-road on August 16, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2020, 10:21:27 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 17, 2020, 06:36:22 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 17, 2020, 08:51:09 AM
Crowds allowed back to the Crucible for the Snooker final, in an enclosed arena but not cricket. I struggle to see why say a 33% capacity aren't allowed in the Test grounds which is in the open air?
Possibly worried about what happens when it rains and you have people all looking for cover.
The proposed cricket test events, that were called off, were only going to be for a couple of thousand people in each venue. Nowhere near a third of capacity
Post by: UK Redsox on August 17, 2020, 11:06:14 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 17, 2020, 02:44:50 PM
What's the point ?
Can the captains shake hands (well...bump elbows) at 5pm and call it off as a draw ?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 21, 2020, 10:57:02 AM
“Jofra has had a week off. We want him to operate in short and sharp spells and we want him to bowl fast.”
Although the first part of that is on Root.
Post by: manic-road on August 21, 2020, 11:27:04 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 21, 2020, 04:11:15 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 21, 2020, 05:14:09 PM
Fine maiden 100 from Crawley. Good effort.
Also a good partnership with Buttler, hope they can keep scoring until the cloe of play today.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 21, 2020, 06:21:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 21, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
Why are the guys wearing black armbands? Have I missed the passing of a former player?
Post by: dave shelley on August 21, 2020, 07:11:23 PM
I’m just catching up with the test after a day at work on various video calls.
Why are the guys wearing black armbands? Have I missed the passing of a former player?
I wondered that too so I looked it up, I believe it's for one of the lesser squad member's mother who has passed away. Sorry, I can't remember his name.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 21, 2020, 07:26:21 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 21, 2020, 07:30:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 21, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 11:28:37 AM
Happy to admit I have underestimated where Crawley is now. Think he has a game that could be very successful in an away Ashes.
I think that 3,4,5,6 going forward is pretty much set now in Crawley, Root, Stokes, Pope
The openers still worry me though. Burns has real problems against left-arm pace and Sibley can basically only score on the leg side.
Post by: manic-road on August 22, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 01:47:21 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 22, 2020, 02:05:07 PM
A couple of good things due to this summer's international cricket being behind closed doors; no inane chanting / Barmy Army nonsense and especially no fecking trumpetAlso, no beer snakes, and no fancy dress.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 02:07:29 PM
A couple of good things due to this summer's international cricket being behind closed doors; no inane chanting / Barmy Army nonsense and especially no fecking trumpetAlso, no beer snakes, and no fancy dress.
Yep, fancy dress should be banned. Apart from the Cookie Monster / Minnie Mouse couple. They can stay
Post by: manic-road on August 22, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
Post by: simboy on August 22, 2020, 03:09:08 PM
Happy to admit I have underestimated where Crawley is now. Think he has a game that could be very successful in an away Ashes.
I think that 3,4,5,6 going forward is pretty much set now in Crawley, Root, Stokes, Pope
The openers still worry me though. Burns has real problems against left-arm pace and Sibley can basically only score on the leg side.
Crawley has impressed over the last two matches and Buttler (with the bat at least) over his last two innings. I suspect, at the moment Pope is the most vulnerable. If I was picking a team to beat the Australians I might agree with you except I think Sibley is the “real deal”. I might want Buttler to bat at six and look to have another keeper (Foulkes or Bairstow) at 7.
If I’m going in with only the six batsmen (Buttler as a keeper batsman) I’d hope Moeen feels able to play test cricket again. He offers a spin option and is good enough to bat at 7, despite his heroics (and being a Villa fan) I’m not sure Woakes is a regular test 7.
Anyway, great to see young lads of Test class coming through. I thought it was a year too early for Crawley, but I was clearly wrong.
Post by: olaftab on August 22, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/h8rmKHc/83-D75-FFA-05-F7-4584-8-CBB-ACF98355-BB5-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h8rmKHc)
2012 ml63 0 60 (https://statewideinventory.org/mercedes-0-60-times)
Post by: CT on August 22, 2020, 05:16:32 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 22, 2020, 05:49:41 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 06:04:14 PM
Why on earth are England still batting ?
Sibley sat on the balcony in a tracksuit
Post by: paul_e on August 22, 2020, 06:35:53 PM
Looks like we'll get a full day tomorrow but reports for Monday and Tuesday aren't great.
I've been travelling today but the bits I saw were incredibly impressive from Crawley and Buttler, I think we're close to having a good line-up, I just have a few question marks against Burns, otherwise this 6 and Stokes with Woakes or Curran at 8 is full of ability and all of an age where they can stay together for a few years.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 07:30:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2020, 07:31:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2020, 08:14:02 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 08:15:52 PM
Highest Test Score After Each Type of Dismissal
Stumped - Crawley(267)
Caught - Hayden(380)
Bowled - Jayawardene(374)
LBW - Houghton(266)
Run Out - Lara(277)
Hit Wckt - Ponsford(266)
Handled The Ball - Gooch(133)
Obstructing - Hutton(27)
Retired Out - Atapattu(201)
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 08:17:06 PM
I’m not sure there’s any real arguments on the declaration. There’s 3 days left.
Rain forecast for Monday
Lots of rain forecast for Tuesday
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 22, 2020, 08:21:56 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 22, 2020, 08:54:27 PM
From Twitter
Highest Test Score After Each Type of Dismissal
Stumped - Crawley(267)
Caught - Hayden(380)
Bowled - Jayawardene(374)
LBW - Houghton(266)
Run Out - Lara(277)
Hit Wckt - Ponsford(266)
Handled The Ball - Gooch(133)
Obstructing - Hutton(27)
Retired Out - Atapattu(201)
Where on twitter? There's something very Zaltzman about them. The sort of thing he'd dig out before you'd finished asking him if he could!
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 10:21:44 PM
Ok fair enough, but our rate of scoring was sufficiently fast to limit the need to bat again.
England could bowl Pakistan out for under a 100 and Root would probably still not enforce the follow on :)
Post by: UK Redsox on August 22, 2020, 10:25:38 PM
From Twitter
Highest Test Score After Each Type of Dismissal
Stumped - Crawley(267)
Caught - Hayden(380)
Bowled - Jayawardene(374)
LBW - Houghton(266)
Run Out - Lara(277)
Hit Wckt - Ponsford(266)
Handled The Ball - Gooch(133)
Obstructing - Hutton(27)
Retired Out - Atapattu(201)
Where on twitter? There's something very Zaltzman about them. The sort of thing he'd dig out before you'd finished asking him if he could!
Andy retweeted a retweet of a tweet with this info. Not really sure who did the original research.
Zaltz will be kicking himself that he didn’t come up with it. You’re right that this is exactly the kind of thing he normally says.
I like Andrew Samson on TMS but I’ve been really impressed with Andy Z this summer.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 23, 2020, 08:10:08 AM
Post by: manic-road on August 23, 2020, 11:37:39 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2020, 12:20:50 PM
This is why England should have declared earlier
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2020, 12:22:33 PM
I like Ramprakash too, he’s added a bit of quiet authority which has been missing since CMJ passed away.
I agree. Mark is very good
However, my favourite current summariser is still Vic
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2020, 01:31:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2020, 04:37:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 23, 2020, 04:46:04 PM
The absence of neutral umpires this summer has shown just how good the English umpires on the international panel are, especially Michael GoughIsn't that bit akin to how great English football Referees were myth that existed a couple of decades ago?
Post by: paul_e on August 23, 2020, 06:15:36 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2020, 06:16:54 PM
A great comeback from a dodgy performance a couple of games ago
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2020, 06:25:23 PM
Two drops off Jimmy in this over; Burns and then Crawley
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2020, 06:38:30 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2020, 06:40:34 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53879128
Along with Mike Procter, one of my favourite cricketers as a kid
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 23, 2020, 06:55:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 24, 2020, 07:11:23 PM
The next test series is scheduled to be in India in January, if it happens. He isn’t an automatic pick for games on the subcontinent so it could be next summer before he gets another test. I really hope that age doesn’t catch up on him. He deserves to get to 600 wickets, and if our slips could catch then he’d be there by now!
Post by: paul_e on August 24, 2020, 07:49:09 PM
With a poor Weather forecast For tomorrow, Jimmy is going to be stuck on 599 wickets for a long time.
The next test series is scheduled to be in India in January, if it happens. He isn’t an automatic pick for games on the subcontinent so it could be next summer before he gets another test. I really hope that age doesn’t catch up on him. He deserves to get to 600 wickets, and if our slips could catch then he’d be there by now!
On the sky commentary they mentioned the Indian games potentially being played in the UAE, not sure why but Jimmy would be much more likely to play in that case.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 24, 2020, 11:19:47 PM
The absence of neutral umpires this summer has shown just how good the English umpires on the international panel are, especially Michael GoughIsn't that bit akin to how great English football Referees were myth that existed a couple of decades ago?
Not really, as there are stats to back it up. Said on SKY commentary that Michael Gough has only had 2 out of 27 decisions overturned this summer.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 24, 2020, 11:33:51 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on August 25, 2020, 12:11:28 AM
Why can't people play the game that's in front of them?
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2020, 10:52:30 AM
Jonathan Agnew
BBC cricket correspondent on Test Match Special
The word we have is it will take four or five hours, after it's stopped raining, for this field to be fit for play.
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2020, 12:02:06 PM
weather reports looks pretty good for the rest of the day with just a chance for a few light showers so potentially time for 40-60 overs. fingers crossed that's enough for:
1. a jimmy wicket
2. an England win
in that order.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2020, 02:36:36 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2020, 02:54:22 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2020, 04:09:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2020, 04:38:43 PM
600
Post by: CT on August 25, 2020, 04:42:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
Post by: Colhint on August 25, 2020, 06:20:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2020, 06:33:21 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 25, 2020, 06:34:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 25, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
And also well done to West Indies and Pakistan for touring and playing Test cricket. I think both series have been a success from that point of view and played in totally the right spirit.
I echo these sentiments. Too many England - Pakistan series have been played with a lack of spirit. It’s been refreshing to witness a series that was played with such harmony.
Post by: manic-road on August 28, 2020, 07:13:24 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 28, 2020, 07:57:26 PM
Nice knock from Banton tonight, played some lovely shots.
To think he slipped through the Bears fingers. Or should that be claws?
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 30, 2020, 05:34:26 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on August 30, 2020, 05:45:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 30, 2020, 06:08:37 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2020, 06:27:26 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2020, 06:56:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 07:07:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 07:20:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
I’m not really sure why there’s any debate around Malan being in the side. He’s excellent nearly all the time.
I agree, but who gets dropped when Roy comes back (or does he not get back in)? Bairstow out? Buttler down at 6 and Ali out, does that leave us light with the ball?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 08:13:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 08:34:29 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2020, 08:41:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 08:45:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2020, 08:51:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 09:09:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2020, 09:16:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2020, 09:26:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 09:29:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 09:30:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 09:30:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2020, 09:33:05 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 04, 2020, 09:34:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2020, 09:36:29 PM
Post by: JD on September 04, 2020, 09:37:40 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 04, 2020, 11:26:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 05, 2020, 09:11:20 AM
Brainless from the Aussies and we took full advantage. Ohdearwhatapitynevermind.
Wouldn't say brainless, just thought it was clear that once the openers and Smith had gone some of the others that came in didn't really fancy it against Archer and Wood.
They sent down some serious pace for a couple of overs there and that changed the game. The one delivery that summed it up for me was the one that Wood ripped through Alex Carey, who I think is a top player. Different format altogether, but I just hope both are fit and firing by the time the Ashes come around.
Jordan and Curran kept it tight at the end and it was job done. On another note, Eoin Morgan really is a superb limited overs captain.
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2020, 04:24:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2020, 05:42:42 PM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 06, 2020, 05:50:38 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2020, 06:33:26 PM
I get the arguments against Buttler in the test team but watching an innings like this one I think the transferable skills are all there.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 06, 2020, 06:45:48 PM
I think part of the problem is that Buttler is in the form of his life, which makes all bowlers look pretty average.Far be it from me to defend the Aussies but it's a very tough ask for their bowlers - as good as some of them are - to come in off no competitive cricket in 5 months against someone like Buttler whose form has been getting better and better over two solid months of cricket.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 06, 2020, 07:15:00 PM
Supreme innings from Buttler 77 from 54 with a fucking huge 6 to seal the win. Also credit to Moeen with the 6 and 4 earlier in the over to take all the pressure off, exactly the sort of batting he's there to bring late in the innings.
Yep, when Zampa came on in the penultimate over you just knew that Buttler and Ali woukd go after him big time.
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2020, 07:24:30 PM
I think part of the problem is that Buttler is in the form of his life, which makes all bowlers look pretty average.Far be it from me to defend the Aussies but it's a very tough ask for their bowlers - as good as some of them are - to come in off no competitive cricket in 5 months against someone like Buttler whose form has been getting better and better over two solid months of cricket.
Yeah that's what I was getting at, any bowler would struggle against Buttler playing like he did today, for a bunch who've not played much competitive Cricket for such a long time he must've been a nightmare. The over where he hit a 4 through cover and then when they moved the fielder he hit the next one through point where he'd come from was the clearest sign you'll see of a batsman in complete control. Stoinis was stood on the rope looking like he wanted a hole to open under his feet and Agar just looked lost as to where to bowl next.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 06, 2020, 07:29:39 PM
The over where he hit a 4 through cover and then when they moved the fielder he hit the next one through point where he'd come from was the clearest sign you'll see of a batsman in complete control. Stoinis was stood on the rope looking like he wanted a hole to open under his feet and Agar just looked lost as to where to bowl next.The best batsman I ever saw in the flesh was Lara and for much the same reason you describe there: his placement was phenomenal - it was almost as if there weren't any fielders there at all.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2020, 08:40:21 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on September 06, 2020, 09:21:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2020, 09:45:49 PM
Have to say that I've always thought Zampa is rubbish. McGill must wish he'd have been playing nowadays, rather than when Warne was in his pomp.
Agreed, I'm glad Ali and Buttler showed him the contempt his bowling deserved in the last over.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 07, 2020, 12:42:40 AM
We’ve done really well. Although I think this series shows how important Stokes is to the balance of the side. We’re really really reliant on the top 6 with the team as it is at the moment. If the team set up as it is got off to a bad start we’d massively struggle.
In T20 Paul? Think Stokes would probably have to come in at 3 in that format.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 07, 2020, 06:36:57 AM
Post by: paul_e on September 07, 2020, 09:04:19 AM
Yep I think the side is too lopsided at the moment. Curran at 7 is too high.
I think it depends on what you're trying to do.
Right now my team for the world cup would be:
Roy, Buttler, Malan, Morgan, Stokes, Ali, Willey, Jordan, Rashid, Archer, Wood
I like Willey for the powerplay and Jordan for the death as 'specialists' and both of them are sloggers who can get you some big runs to finish an innings so we can carry them at 7 and 8 and even Rashid and Archer can offer a bit. It does mean we're relying on 1-2 of the top 6 settling in for a long spell but from that group you really should be able to expect that, there's some world class batsmen in there.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2020, 09:46:27 AM
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 08, 2020, 11:03:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 09, 2020, 12:20:57 AM
Bit disappointing tonight, although very proud that Mo got to captain his country. Australia weren't quite so rusty and their changes improved their team, while ours didn't.
We played like a team missing a few key players and knowing that the series was won. Sam Billings though has probably destroyed any chance he had of breaking in to the team, awful shot selection when he just needed to take a few more singles and settle himself.
Credit though to Rashid for the delivery to get Finch, top drawer bit of bowling.
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 09, 2020, 12:29:34 AM
Yeah that was a belter, especially to a batsman well set. It's always nice to see The Big Show die on his arse too.Bit disappointing tonight, although very proud that Mo got to captain his country. Australia weren't quite so rusty and their changes improved their team, while ours didn't.
We played like a team missing a few key players and knowing that the series was won. Sam Billings though has probably destroyed any chance he had of breaking in to the team, awful shot selection when he just needed to take a few more singles and settle himself.
Credit though to Rashid for the delivery to get Finch, top drawer bit of bowling.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 11, 2020, 01:58:26 PM
Smith is out after taking a ball to the yud in training, but Stoinis is a pretty decent replacement.
Aussies look to have a better balance to their side.
England have just the five bowlers (plus Root). Aussie bowling has more depth, although I don't know if Marsh can bowl these days
Post by: paul_e on September 11, 2020, 04:32:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 11, 2020, 05:14:54 PM
Against most sides that would be a decent score but England have developed a bit of a habit of chasing targets like this in the last few years.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 11, 2020, 09:58:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2020, 01:55:56 PM
Post by: manic-road on September 13, 2020, 02:02:26 PM
Have been turned over a bit in the power play here.
Not a great powerplay at all, need Morgan and Root to put on a decent partnership.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2020, 02:03:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2020, 04:04:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2020, 04:21:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2020, 04:45:12 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
However, those two are now bowled out, so it’s down to Rash and the Currans to take the final four wickets.
If the Aussies bat out their overs, they should still win
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2020, 08:26:41 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Aussies have fallen apart
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2020, 08:50:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2020, 08:54:25 PM
It’s brilliant from the bowlers and captain.
...and the Aussie plan appears to have been devised by Baldrick.
No idea what Carey is trying to achieve
Post by: UK Redsox on September 13, 2020, 09:10:32 PM
Incredible fight back
Post by: manic-road on September 13, 2020, 09:12:55 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 13, 2020, 10:07:30 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2020, 10:15:24 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 13, 2020, 10:20:43 PM
I guess the aussie collapse and the incredible figures for the England quicks shows that the pitch was at least part of the problem. That's gotta be one of the lowest scoring ODIs for years.
They used the same pitch on Friday too. It was two paced, slow and our attack made the most of it.
Post by: paul_e on September 13, 2020, 10:25:29 PM
I guess the aussie collapse and the incredible figures for the England quicks shows that the pitch was at least part of the problem. That's gotta be one of the lowest scoring ODIs for years.
They used the same pitch on Friday too. It was two paced, slow and our attack made the most of it.
Yeah I figured they must've done that, results like this are inevitable if international teams are reusing pitches, at this level the bowlers are good enough to make the most of anything they get.
Post by: Holte132 on September 16, 2020, 01:04:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2020, 01:04:47 PM
Post by: manic-road on September 16, 2020, 01:15:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2020, 01:20:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2020, 02:32:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2020, 04:17:11 PM
The batting line up really hasn’t fired in this series.
I think the pitch has played a big part in that.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 16, 2020, 04:21:04 PM
The batting line up really hasn’t fired in this series.
I think the pitch has played a big part in that.
TMS saying that Morgan and the coaches had requested these type of pitches in preparation for the next T20/ODI World Cups which are both in India
Post by: manic-road on September 16, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2020, 04:52:42 PM
Post by: manic-road on September 16, 2020, 05:30:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2020, 08:40:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2020, 09:14:59 PM
Post by: manic-road on September 17, 2020, 07:13:30 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 30, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
Headline is Bairstow being dropped from the Test list. He's still on a white ball contract
No contracts for Foakes, Banton, Bracey or Livingstone.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54352180
Test and white-ball contracts: Jofra Archer (Sussex), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)
Test contracts: James Anderson (Lancashire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Zak Crawley (Kent), Sam Curran (Surrey), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire)
White-ball contracts: Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Tom Curran (Surrey), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Mark Wood (Durham)
Incremental contracts: Dom Bess (Yorkshire), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Dawid Malan (Yorkshire)
Pace bowling developmental contracts: Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Craig Overton (Somerset), Olly Stone (Warwickshire)
Post by: paul_e on September 30, 2020, 06:17:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 09, 2020, 02:03:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54464650
Post by: UK Redsox on October 27, 2020, 10:50:45 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/oct/26/ecb-global-silence-pakistan-ipl-exile
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2020, 06:15:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 30, 2020, 06:30:33 PM
Marlon Samuels is a bit of a tit isn’t he.
I'm not sure 'bit' does it justice, he's a complete arsehole. There have been rumours about how much his teammates have disliked him for years, mainly because he has an ego that's significantly bigger than his talent.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 30, 2020, 06:39:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 30, 2020, 06:50:45 PM
What’s he done?
just google him but basically claiming that Stokes' wife would be all over him in seconds if they were locked down together and then doubled down on it getting into arguments with a few other people. All because Stokes said he wouldn't wish quarantine on anyone and agreeing when he was asked if that even meant Samuels. The full thing is sadder than I'm making it sound, the guy acts like a teenager still and he's nearly 40.
Post by: olaftab on October 30, 2020, 07:09:59 PM
What’s he done?Strange fellow:
Quote
Marlon Samuels has made another reference to the partners of England cricket players, days after being slammed for an ugly remark about Ben Stokes’ wife.
Former West Indian batsman Samuels took to Instagram earlier this week to respond to comments made by Stokes, who said he wouldn’t wish spending 14 days in isolation on his “worst enemy”.
“It wasn’t the most enjoyable thing you ever have to do, I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy,” Stokes told the BBC. “I text my brother saying the same thing, and my brother asked, ‘You wouldn’t even do that to Marlon Samuels?’
“I said, ‘No, it’s that bad’, that’s how tough it was.”
Samuels was outraged at having his name dragged into things and went nuclear.
“No white boy could diss me in the sports and no get back diss look at this b***h still thinking about me give me 14 days with you wife turn her into Jamaican in 14 seconds mate none of yall knows me that simple means it’s my f***ing superior skin tone yall hate f*** you,” Samuels wrote on Instagram on Tuesday.
Samuels and Stokes clashed on the cricket field as rivals, as did the West Indian and Shane Warne, who Samuels called a “b***h” as part of his tirade.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/marlon-samuels-mentions-more-wives-of-england-cricketers-after-slur-about-ben-stokes-partner/news-story/22f26d459cd734f659d3a584e2171a35
Post by: olaftab on October 30, 2020, 07:17:29 PM
An article on the non-participation of Pakistani players in the IPLYes read that good article. It's a totally political thing disguised as a safety issue by BCCI and really ICC should have the balls to do something about it. Current tournament being played in UAE blows away the player safety lie.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/oct/26/ecb-global-silence-pakistan-ipl-exile
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 30, 2020, 08:27:09 PM
If they are unable to guarantee the safety of the visitors then, obviously, they would have to forfeit home advantage.
Post by: Rory on November 12, 2020, 10:58:18 PM
Marlon Samuels is a bit of a tit isn’t he.
I thought he was a twat when he was a player. Now I think he's a twat who cannot string a sentence together.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 16, 2020, 03:55:45 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54957969
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 17, 2020, 04:51:13 PM
Start of the BBL and Australia v India matches looking a bit dicey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54957969
I hope not. What has helped keep me from the darkness was the cricket here and the IPL (I watched just about every game though the commentators were so wrapped up in a) the in-game advertising b) declaring every play.player as world class that I watched with the sound muted).
Post by: Rory on November 17, 2020, 04:56:17 PM
Start of the BBL and Australia v India matches looking a bit dicey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54957969
I hope not. What has helped keep me from the darkness was the cricket here and the IPL (I watched just about every game though the commentators were so wrapped up in a) the in-game advertising b) declaring every play.player as world class that I watched with the sound muted).
Same here, and I agree the marketing did seem a bit more shameless than usual.
"Great economy from Bumrah there...almost as great as the fuel economy on the Tata Altroz!"
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on November 17, 2020, 05:43:14 PM
I'd forgotten that the Broad incident (where he didn't walk) was in the second innings, and what a superlative 100 it was by Bell.
Post by: Rory on November 17, 2020, 06:32:00 PM
I've been watching Sky's re-run of the first Ashes Test of 2013...already it seems weird that Trent Bridge is full and people aren't Social Distancing.
I'd forgotten that the Broad incident (where he didn't walk) was in the second innings, and what a superlative 100 it was by Bell.
I still say Bell's legacy from that series has been undermined by the subsequent whitewash down under. He basically won us the 2013 series.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 17, 2020, 07:34:46 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on November 18, 2020, 01:00:39 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 18, 2020, 06:49:35 AM
...and always the first to be dropped when he failed.
He still played in 118 tests though.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 18, 2020, 10:37:05 AM
https://www.ecb.co.uk/england/men/fixtures
Post by: Dr Butler on November 18, 2020, 10:51:01 AM
...and always the first to be dropped when he failed.
to be fair all batsmen go through a drought and when Belly went through his he probably desrved to be dropped, but he always came back stronger and that 109 vs the convicts at Trent Bridge is one of my favourite knocks from Ian.
COYB and UTV
The Doc
Post by: Rory on November 18, 2020, 11:03:46 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 18, 2020, 01:36:31 PM
Provisional 2021 England international schedule released
https://www.ecb.co.uk/england/men/fixtures
Disappointing that there’s possibly only one day of international cricket at Edgbaston next year.
Post by: dcdavecollett on November 19, 2020, 01:15:24 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 27, 2020, 08:08:40 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 28, 2020, 12:16:23 AM
...and always the first to be dropped when he failed.
He still played in 118 tests though.
For me, he was a test match number 5 and looked settled in that position. His form only really started to suffer when they began moving him around the order when Trott and Pietersen left the scene. Suppose as a senior player it was to be expected, but I don't think he was at his best at the top of the order.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 28, 2020, 12:24:58 AM
Some knock from Bairstow to win the game.
Yep and a very good win. Thought the decision to leave Ali out was a strange one given how the pitch played, but with Stokes not bowling they may have wanted an extra seamer.
Should be three good ODI series to follow over the coming weeks.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 04, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Games now planned to be on Sun, Mon and Wed
Post by: PGW on December 04, 2020, 11:23:57 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 06, 2020, 12:42:52 PM
I can’t see any of the ODIs happening now
Post by: UK Redsox on December 07, 2020, 04:20:58 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 09, 2020, 02:44:00 PM
Bairstow expected to replace Pope and Archer expected to be rested.
First Test: 14-18 January, Galle
Second Test: 22-26 January, Galle
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2020, 07:55:31 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 10, 2020, 02:46:08 PM
India v England schedule
Tests
5-9 Feb 2021: First Test, MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai
13-17 Feb: Second Test, Chennai
24-28 Feb: Third Test, Sardar Patel Stadium, Ahmedabad
4-8 Mar: Fourth Test, Ahmedabad
Twenty20s
12 Mar: First T20, Ahmedabad
14 Mar: Second T20, Ahmedabad
16 Mar: Third T20, Ahmedabad
18 Mar: Fourth T20, Ahmedabad
20 Mar: Fifth T20, Ahmedabad
ODIs
23 Mar: First ODI, MCA Stadium, Pune
26 Mar: Second ODI, Pune
28 Mar: Third ODI, Pune
Post by: UK Redsox on December 10, 2020, 02:55:30 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 10, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 11, 2020, 11:45:36 AM
Ah good. No rush with that vaccine, I'll have to soldier on "working" from home. 😁
I think that I can keep on working from home until then as well.
However, post-vaccine, I have no intention to returning to the office for more than a couple a days each week. Just walking down the stairs is far better than the over ten hours per week that I spent commuting
Post by: UK Redsox on December 11, 2020, 01:09:34 PM
As expected Archer is rested, as is Stokes. Bairstow is back, as is Moeen
Lawrence in for Burns, as the latter's wife is expecting.
James Bracey of 'The Shire' gets to hang out with the squad again.
Quote
England squad: Joe Root (capt), Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Dom Bess, Stuart Broad, Jos Buttler (wk), Zak Crawley, Sam Curran, Ben Foakes (wk), Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach, Dom Sibley, Olly Stone, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood.
Reserves: James Bracey (wk), Mason Crane, Saqib Mahmood, Craig Overton, Matthew Parkinson, Ollie Robinson, Amar Virdi.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 11, 2020, 08:45:48 PM
Post by: OzVilla on December 19, 2020, 05:32:10 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 19, 2020, 06:33:27 AM
India in a collapse for the ages against Australia. All out for 36. 27/9 in the day. India’s lowest ever total in Tests.
Since Kohli was run out in the first innings they’ve scored 92-16.
Kohli not have made a test century in 2020, he misses the Boxing Day test. I imagine he will put that right when they play England early next year.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 19, 2020, 08:31:22 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 19, 2020, 11:41:29 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 21, 2020, 03:40:28 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/55395279
Post by: UK Redsox on December 23, 2020, 11:33:42 PM
https://www.cityam.com/major-league-cricket-silicon-valley-and-bollywoods-grand-plan-to-make-america-fall-in-love-with-t20/
Post by: UK Redsox on December 25, 2020, 10:21:36 PM
Shaheen Afridi’s first over was superb
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2020, 08:24:32 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 26, 2020, 01:41:42 PM
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2020, 12:10:13 PM
Post by: manic-road on December 29, 2020, 01:52:14 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 29, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Post by: OzVilla on December 31, 2020, 05:39:13 AM
Post by: PGW on January 04, 2021, 05:09:01 PM
Don't know how this is going to affect schedule.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2021, 05:20:22 PM
The Aussie batting line up is very poor, Head, Burns, Wade, Green should be no where near their top 6. In another era they wouldn’t have made a 3rd Aussie side. Their bowing attack is superb though unfortunately.
Can’t speak for Green, as I haven’t seen him play. But Head’s alright isn’t he? His average is just shy of 40 isn’t it? Always looks tidy enough. Agree on Burns and Wade.
Post by: Monty on January 04, 2021, 06:49:14 PM
The Aussie batting line up is very poor, Head, Burns, Wade, Green should be no where near their top 6. In another era they wouldn’t have made a 3rd Aussie side. Their bowing attack is superb though unfortunately.
Can’t speak for Green, as I haven’t seen him play. But Head’s alright isn’t he? His average is just shy of 40 isn’t it? Always looks tidy enough. Agree on Burns and Wade.
But as OzVilla says, 'tidy enough' wouldn't have been good enough for the great Aussie sides.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2021, 08:22:59 PM
Post by: Monty on January 04, 2021, 09:49:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 04, 2021, 09:59:31 PM
Post by: Monty on January 04, 2021, 10:05:28 PM
Post by: OzVilla on January 05, 2021, 02:27:51 AM
Yes no doubt, but if your benchmark is arguably the greatest team(s) ever - acknowledging the Windies would have a strong case - then it’s an impossible standard. I’d say Head would be a decent middle order player for most.
I’m talking about a decent portion of time 1993ish to 2013. Remember when they had a home one day series and included Australia A, around 97/98, players like Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Blewitt, Lehmann played for that A side and not even getting a look I were Martin Love, DeVenuto, Hodge, Elliott, Maher, Law, Cox, Siddons, Symonds and Haddin. These players scored shed loads of Sheffield Shield runs. Along with Micheal Beven none of those guys could make their Test team such was their strength in-depth. They’ve got nothing like that now.
Post by: olaftab on January 05, 2021, 02:33:49 AM
Barring a really extraordinary turnaround I think it's quite plain that Steve Smith is greatest player of his generation, and by a distance.Maybe the greatest batsman but he has very obvious shortcomings in other aspects of the game.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 06, 2021, 11:08:25 AM
Post by: PGW on January 07, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Keep your eyes peeled for the new England Physio in Sri Lanka. Ben Davies. He’s my mate’s son, Villa season ticket holder and all round nice fella will no doubt be spreading the Villa gospel to the test team.At least he'll have Chris Woakes as some support!!!
Post by: Rory on January 07, 2021, 04:06:37 PM
Barring a really extraordinary turnaround I think it's quite plain that Steve Smith is greatest player of his generation, and by a distance.Maybe the greatest batsman but he has very obvious shortcomings in other aspects of the game.
For me, the 'great' players are ones who not only have the record but who people also love watching. That's why there are so few of them.
Smith is an incredible accumulator of runs, but I find both Williamson and Kohli much better to watch.
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 09, 2021, 01:29:44 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 11, 2021, 08:16:25 AM
Barring a really extraordinary turnaround I think it's quite plain that Steve Smith is greatest player of his generation, and by a distance.Maybe the greatest batsman but he has very obvious shortcomings in other aspects of the game.
Smith is a very good player but as seen yet again in the latest match against India his sportsmanship is dubious to say the least. Just seen viseos of him scuffing up Rishabh Pant crease in the latest test. Before you know it he will be bawling in front of the cameras again.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 11, 2021, 10:22:26 AM
Post by: Rory on January 11, 2021, 10:41:54 AM
Great second innings performance by India to hold out for the draw.
Yep, with the likes of Bumrah they're becoming a very well-balanced team. They seem to be remedying that lack of quicks that has held them back overseas for years.
I remember the early 2000s when they had that ridiculous top order (Sehwag, Dravid, Ganguly, Tendulkar, Laxman etc) and the tail felt like it didn't start until about number 9. Their approach seemed to be to get as close to 1000 runs as possible in the first innings then hope that the opposition lost 20 wickets through scoreboard pressure.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 11, 2021, 06:40:04 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 11, 2021, 07:21:50 PM
I see the great new era of sportsmanship in Australian cricket started to creak today when things didn’t go their way.
Same old Aussies, always cheating
Post by: olaftab on January 11, 2021, 09:51:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 11, 2021, 10:14:31 PM
Post by: Rory on January 11, 2021, 10:28:24 PM
Stuff like this is a big part of why I don't see Smith as a true great as his figures would suggest. The other big part is that I just don't like watching him play. If you watch at players like Williamson, Kohli and Root when they get going they just look right (I'd add a few others here as well but those 4 were the ones who were all fighting out to be the best in the world a couple of years back), Smith has great hand eye co-ordination and timing so he's effective but his style is janky and despite his success I can't stop thinking that someone will work him out because it just looks like there's got to be fundamental flaws in how square he is.
Agreed, Paul. He looks very awkward at the crease whether he's on 0, 20 or 200.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 11, 2021, 11:23:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 12, 2021, 12:25:09 AM
No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.
That's my point though, I watch him and know he's a brilliant batsman but I still can't stop myself seeing all kinds of problems with his technique. I get the impression that is part of his effectiveness, bowlers get drawn into bowling at the clear weaknesses but he's expecting exactly that and uses it to his advantage.
Post by: Monty on January 12, 2021, 11:13:21 AM
In the end, in cricket numbers are hard to argue with. Smith doesn't live in a dud period for bowling, yet his average is what it is. He's 9th on the all-time run scorers list in Tests at the age of 30 and the only player on that list to be shy of 100 caps (a whopping 29 shy, in fact). He's got the highest average of all players ever to have played at least as many tests as he has. He is a lot of things, but he's also clearly a batting genius.
Post by: Rory on January 12, 2021, 12:36:46 PM
People used to say similar things about Bradman. Awkward, inelegant, an accumulator more than a scorer, more power than finesse, all of it. Smith may look like a broken puppet during the bowler's run-up, but how incredibly in line he gets by the point of delivery is all part of his process. No doubt in England we'd have 'corrected' his technique and ended up with a worse player.
In the end, in cricket numbers are hard to argue with. Smith doesn't live in a dud period for bowling, yet his average is what it is. He's 9th on the all-time run scorers list in Tests at the age of 30 and the only player on that list to be shy of 100 caps (a whopping 29 shy, in fact). He's got the highest average of all players ever to have played at least as many tests as he has. He is a lot of things, but he's also clearly a batting genius.
I don't disagree Monty. He is a very idiosyncratic batsman and that's part of what makes him so difficult to bowl at, and you're right that if the ECB or a county had got hold of him, they would've tried to iron that out and probably resulted in an inferior player.
What I find most remarkable is that for a batsman who relies so much on hand-eye coordination, he had such a weak record until five or so years ago. He was considered primarily a spinner and fielder in his early career, and it's not as if he's gone away and come back with a new technique. Instead, he seemed to improve his timing and determination/stubbornness - two things that are usually there to begin with in most batsmen.
He's kind of done the opposite to what is traditional. Rather than having the initial raw ingredients and then developing the technical side, he's improved the raw ingredients instead.
Post by: Monty on January 12, 2021, 12:51:06 PM
He's not the first player to start his career as a bowler or batsman and switch (Sobers springs to mind, though of course he didn't switch so much as expand his range to include everything), but perhaps the most dramatic example in recent years, and the one with whom it shows the most (I did once describe him as the greatest ever tailender and, while that's obviously flippant, there is something in that I think).
Cricket is a strange sport, full of late-bloomers and surprising resurgences. Even within that, however, Smith is a total phenomenon.
Edit: I should say, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's personal preferences. I don't think I'll ever enjoy watching a batsman more than I loved watching Lara (though there is a special place in my heart for Sangakkara), but when we talk about greatness we have more objective criteria to help.
Post by: paul_e on January 12, 2021, 01:30:20 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on January 12, 2021, 01:50:49 PM
I really dislike him.
Post by: Monty on January 12, 2021, 01:55:25 PM
Little twat, I'd sledge him like nobodies business next ashes.
An example of how lovely we are too.
Post by: manic-road on January 14, 2021, 08:49:17 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 14, 2021, 09:04:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2021, 10:09:54 AM
Both openers gone so Bairstow and Root in the middle, the good part of that is these 2 are both good players of spin so if they can be patient and focused this could be the key partnership.
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2021, 10:48:28 AM
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2021, 01:36:25 PM
No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.
That's my point though, I watch him and know he's a brilliant batsman but I still can't stop myself seeing all kinds of problems with his technique. I get the impression that is part of his effectiveness, bowlers get drawn into bowling at the clear weaknesses but he's expecting exactly that and uses it to his advantage.
I know what you mean about his style, as he's not one for the purists, but if he's drawing bowlers into what they think is a weakness, then is it really a weakness at all?
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2021, 04:35:33 PM
No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.
That's my point though, I watch him and know he's a brilliant batsman but I still can't stop myself seeing all kinds of problems with his technique. I get the impression that is part of his effectiveness, bowlers get drawn into bowling at the clear weaknesses but he's expecting exactly that and uses it to his advantage.
I know what you mean about his style, as he's not one for the purists, but if he's drawing bowlers into what they think is a weakness, then is it really a weakness at all?
and that's exactly the problem. I think there are weaknesses but his stance at the crease makes people miss them, if you look at the bowling maps almost everyone ends up straighter and fuller when they bowl at him and he scores because that's a feast of famine line.
I'm not enough of an expert in cricket tactics to say where people should be bowling at him but aiming to hit half way up middle stump isn't the right place to bowl (consistently) at anyone who plays top 6 in test cricket. Somehow he manages to get into bowlers heads and convince them it's the way to go though. That said I suspect away swing from a line at the top of off (Woakes has had success with this a few times) or spin back in from a 5th or 6th stump line (seen this against him a few times in the IPL and Big Bash) should be the stock deliveries to him.
Post by: paul_e on January 14, 2021, 04:37:22 PM
Can't see England piling on a massive lead though, this looks a tough pitch to score on and we haven't played very much cricket for 6months.
Both openers gone so Bairstow and Root in the middle, the good part of that is these 2 are both good players of spin so if they can be patient and focused this could be the key partnership.
Think I might have been wrong about this, once the ball softened up things looked a lot less daunting, if this pair can see off the first hour tomorrow we could get a good score, even 300 would make it hard for them because the pitch isn't going to get any better and they just don't look to have the batting to cope with it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2021, 06:10:16 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 14, 2021, 07:49:15 PM
Bess got a 5-fer without bowling well. It’s not his fault but he will bowl better than that and get no wickets.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 15, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2021, 07:51:32 AM
Post by: JD on January 15, 2021, 07:51:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2021, 08:07:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2021, 09:46:43 AM
Post by: sid1964 on January 15, 2021, 10:10:10 AM
Post by: Rory on January 15, 2021, 11:12:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2021, 11:20:45 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 15, 2021, 11:23:07 AM
Root's 50 > 100 conversion rate isn't up there with that of the other top players
Post by: Rory on January 15, 2021, 11:24:04 AM
Post by: Rory on January 15, 2021, 11:25:10 AM
It was a fair comment.
Root's 50 > 100 conversion rate isn't up there with that of the other top players
No I agree, I just thought he'd only played in 3 or 4 tests since 2019 due to the corona disruption.
Post by: Rory on January 15, 2021, 11:29:26 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 15, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
Moving him back 10m to cut that off as a scoring area and force different shots would've been much better for everyone.
On Root his conversion rate isn't as good as it should be but the counter-argument to that is that he scores a hell of a lot of 50s and when he does get a century about half the time he carries on to 150 or more. Even with his 50s nearly 2/3rds of the unconverted ones are scores of 70-99 which doesn't get reflected in the stats but shows that it's not a lack of concentration after getting to 50.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 16, 2021, 06:42:48 AM
Only the weather will prevent an England win, I don’t think that we will bat again in this match.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2021, 08:44:09 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2021, 09:28:47 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 16, 2021, 12:47:20 PM
Bumble said on the Sky coverage that Leach has bowled 57 overs in competitive Cricket in the last 12 months so it’s easy to see why he looks short of rhythm. Add to that the lack of practice before this test then you can see why the attack looks short of match form.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 16, 2021, 01:00:42 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2021, 01:25:39 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 16, 2021, 01:35:46 PM
Curran and Bess need to do better at number 7 and 8 otherwise England will have a very vulnerable tail in Australia at the end of the year.Stokes comes in so Buttler drops down to 7 and Woakes or Ali at 8 would be much stronger.
Post by: Rory on January 16, 2021, 02:21:03 PM
Curran and Bess need to do better at number 7 and 8 otherwise England will have a very vulnerable tail in Australia at the end of the year.Stokes comes in so Buttler drops down to 7 and Woakes or Ali at 8 would be much stronger.
I love Woakes and he should definitely be part of the touring squad, but I'm not sure I can see his style of bowling being effective outside Sydney and Adelaide.
Assuming all are fit, I can see them wanting to play both Jofra and Wood, then rotate Jimmy and Broad. That's if Stokes is fit to bowl.
I think we're likely to be weak from 8-11 whoever we play, but as long as they're not at the crease too early we have a strong middle order, which is why the top three is so important.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 16, 2021, 02:26:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 16, 2021, 06:40:03 PM
We have to play our best attack in Aus. Both teams have misfiring batting line ups and excellent bowling units. Their attack is better than ours particularly at home so if we are to have any chance in the Ashes our bowlers will need to play out of their skin.
Their attack might be better in Australia but I wouldn't say it's better in general. We have 2 of the most successful quicks of all time, the best all-rounder in the world and then 3-4 other fast bowlers who all bring value. What lets us down is the lack of a top class spinner, that's also why we're not celebrating the win in this test already. Leach and Bess are both good county players and dependable backup options but neither has the accuracy or control to be a regular starter.
Post by: Gareth on January 16, 2021, 07:32:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2021, 08:55:42 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 17, 2021, 08:46:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 09:00:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 09:01:23 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 09:14:32 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 17, 2021, 09:34:38 AM
Two big wickets there though.
Yes, we could now win this today if the storm passes by
Post by: Steve67 on January 17, 2021, 10:10:46 AM
Post by: Monty on January 17, 2021, 10:48:56 AM
Untidy work from Jos Buttler behind the stumps.
That was a lot tidier!
Post by: Monty on January 17, 2021, 11:12:50 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 17, 2021, 11:38:32 AM
Post by: CT on January 17, 2021, 11:39:12 AM
Post by: Monty on January 17, 2021, 11:41:20 AM
Post by: Steve67 on January 17, 2021, 11:44:48 AM
Post by: Steve67 on January 17, 2021, 11:45:16 AM
Untidy work from Jos Buttler behind the stumps.
That was a lot tidier!
Was great work.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 11:54:57 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 11:56:30 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 17, 2021, 12:27:32 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 17, 2021, 04:15:26 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 17, 2021, 04:49:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2021, 09:39:36 PM
The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
My friend met Bairstow years ago at a house party. It was when he was just breaking into the England team. Whenever anyone spoke to him, he would apparently say "I would introduce myself, but you already know who I am".
He may have changed since then, but he definitely has the air of a dickhead about him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 09:40:59 PM
The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
My friend met Bairstow years ago at a house party. It was when he was just breaking into the England team. Whenever anyone spoke to him, he would apparently say "I would introduce myself, but you already know who I am".
He may have changed since then, but he definitely has the air of a dickhead about him.
Yeah I can imagine that.
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2021, 09:50:40 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 17, 2021, 10:02:54 PM
I have seen and sometimes met Bairstow on England tours in Australia, the Caribbean and South Africa and I would say he has not changed.The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
My friend met Bairstow years ago at a house party. It was when he was just breaking into the England team. Whenever anyone spoke to him, he would apparently say "I would introduce myself, but you already know who I am".
He may have changed since then, but he definitely has the air of a dickhead about him.
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2021, 10:05:10 PM
I have seen and sometimes met Bairstow on England tours in Australia, the Caribbean and South Africa and I would say he has not changed.The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
My friend met Bairstow years ago at a house party. It was when he was just breaking into the England team. Whenever anyone spoke to him, he would apparently say "I would introduce myself, but you already know who I am".
He may have changed since then, but he definitely has the air of a dickhead about him.
Haha, glad to have it confirmed.
Sounds like you've watched cricket all over! Are you in the Barmy Army or something?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2021, 10:09:24 PM
I appreciate Bairstow has had to go through some horrible circumstances, but I feel he directs his emotions in the wrong way sometimes. No denying he’s a fine player though, but he has some gaps in his game in Test cricket.
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2021, 10:19:42 PM
Bairstow always strikes me as having a bit of a chip on his shoulder. I really took a dim view of his comments after his century in Sri Lanka a couple of years ago. I can’t remember the specifics but I remember thinking it was disrespectful of Foakes, a new player making his way.
I appreciate Bairstow has had to go through some horrible circumstances, but I feel he directs his emotions in the wrong way sometimes. No denying he’s a fine player though, but he has some gaps in his game in Test cricket.
Definitely, Paul. I don't think he reacted well to Buttler being brought back either.
Post by: olaftab on January 17, 2021, 10:30:54 PM
Sounds like you've watched cricket all over! Are you in the Barmy Army or something?Yes and no Rory. A group of us travel together and we use the Barmy Army for information on tour dates, ticket availability and suitable accommodation. They get hold of good information early however we keep away from the gatherings whilst on tour. Some of them seem to have an ordained sense of importance as the only fans fit to support England and everyone else is an imposter. Mind you having said that one of their main songwriter/starter is a lad from Alvechurch a massive Villa fan. So he's ok :).
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2021, 10:35:04 PM
Sounds like you've watched cricket all over! Are you in the Barmy Army or something?Yes and no Rory. A group of us travel together and we use the Barmy Army for information on tour dates, ticket availability and suitable accommodation. They get hold of good information early however we keep away from the gatherings whilst on tour. Some of them seem to have an ordained sense of importance as the only fans fit to support England and everyone else is an imposter. Mind you having said that one of their main songwriter/starter is a lad from Alvechurch a massive Villa fan. So he's ok :).
That's cool, and sounds like a good approach. I've always been a bit ambivalent about the Barmy Army. It can be bad enough sitting in the Hollies stand near them, let alone being on tour with a finite number of hotels and so on!
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 18, 2021, 07:38:47 AM
Post by: Rory on January 18, 2021, 01:42:22 PM
Good effort to get across the line without any further horrors today.
Yep, not a bad test in the end.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 18, 2021, 02:09:21 PM
Sounds like you've watched cricket all over! Are you in the Barmy Army or something?Yes and no Rory. A group of us travel together and we use the Barmy Army for information on tour dates, ticket availability and suitable accommodation. They get hold of good information early however we keep away from the gatherings whilst on tour. Some of them seem to have an ordained sense of importance as the only fans fit to support England and everyone else is an imposter. Mind you having said that one of their main songwriter/starter is a lad from Alvechurch a massive Villa fan. So he's ok :).
Watching cricket on TV is far better without the Barmy Army. They strike me as people best avoided
Post by: Moonraker on January 18, 2021, 03:21:01 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 18, 2021, 10:04:50 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 18, 2021, 10:13:25 PM
I'd like to see Olly Stone given a chance on this tour, Woakes back in the side too. Moeen in for Curran, Stone and Woakes in for Broad and Wood. Gives us some more pace and energy and deepens the batting line up too. I like to look of Dan Lawrence.
I couldn’t disagree more. Sri Lanka is a quick bowlers graveyard.
Wood should play, Jimmy will replace Broad on a rotation basis. Moeen will be well short of match fitness and as recently as Friday Woakes was self-isolating so he will also be short Of match fitness too. I’d keep Curran in the starting XI, he is a special talent.
Post by: JD on January 19, 2021, 07:40:22 AM
Post by: OzVilla on January 19, 2021, 07:41:35 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 19, 2021, 07:42:01 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 19, 2021, 07:51:22 AM
Post by: Rory on January 19, 2021, 08:47:31 AM
Post by: Ads on January 19, 2021, 10:56:25 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 19, 2021, 04:38:01 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 19, 2021, 04:41:21 PM
I am not laughing but losing the series after being one up to India's 2nd XI takes some doing. Roll on end of the year :PLooks like we won’t be there though.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 21, 2021, 04:22:45 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on January 21, 2021, 06:32:15 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 21, 2021, 06:56:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 21, 2021, 07:33:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 22, 2021, 01:32:49 AM
I'd like to see Olly Stone given a chance on this tour, Woakes back in the side too. Moeen in for Curran, Stone and Woakes in for Broad and Wood. Gives us some more pace and energy and deepens the batting line up too. I like to look of Dan Lawrence.
I couldn’t disagree more. Sri Lanka is a quick bowlers graveyard.
Wood should play, Jimmy will replace Broad on a rotation basis. Moeen will be well short of match fitness and as recently as Friday Woakes was self-isolating so he will also be short Of match fitness too. I’d keep Curran in the starting XI, he is a special talent.
Not the friendliest conditions for fast bowlers, but from recollection didn't Stone bowl well the last time we were over there?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 22, 2021, 07:41:36 AM
Post by: Rory on January 22, 2021, 08:28:29 AM
Jimmy has done a hell of a job so far.
The word 'evergreen' comes to mind. I love the bloke.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 22, 2021, 08:38:38 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 22, 2021, 10:30:01 AM
Aggers at his finest :)
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 22, 2021, 11:18:02 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 22, 2021, 12:10:58 PM
Mathews left a few runs out there with his reluctance to push for three at times.
However, it was hot and he's a big unit, so somewhat understandable
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2021, 08:26:05 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 23, 2021, 10:03:51 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2021, 10:05:39 AM
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 23, 2021, 10:33:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2021, 11:03:34 AM
Post by: Rory on January 23, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 23, 2021, 11:57:24 AM
Root seems to be in a good place with the bat. With the year we have ahead, Root being back to his best and putting himself firmly back in with Smith, Kohli and Williamson would be brilliant.
Definitely.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 24, 2021, 01:05:53 AM
Yep the openers need to learn fast. This isn’t good enough from them.
In all fairness Paul, facing spin from the start of the innings is probably a new experience to both them, especially facing spin with a new ball.
As an opening batsman of no repute at all, I hate facing a spinner opening the bowling. You've got that early tension and nerves, the feet aren't quite moving properly just yet and the timing isn't always quite there to begin with. You normally expect to face spin after facing quite a bit of quicker stuff (if you get that far!!) and all the above has eased somewhat.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2021, 08:44:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2021, 09:14:44 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2021, 10:13:49 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 24, 2021, 10:22:35 AM
If they have a 70+ lead with the best part of two days to go then we could be in a bit of bother.
Post by: Dr Butler on January 24, 2021, 10:37:29 AM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 24, 2021, 10:41:10 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 24, 2021, 10:51:39 AM
Post by: Rory on January 24, 2021, 11:18:18 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 24, 2021, 12:02:39 PM
I was surprised that this was only Root's 19th test century. Not that 19 is to be sniffed at, but it feels like he has more.
See previous comments about his 50 to 100 conversion rate, compared to the other top players.
Run Out for 186, thanks to a brilliant but of fielding at Short Leg
Post by: Rory on January 24, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
I was surprised that this was only Root's 19th test century. Not that 19 is to be sniffed at, but it feels like he has more.
See previous comments about his 50 to 100 conversion rate, compared to the other top players.
Run Out for 186, thanks to a brilliant but of fielding at Short Leg
Yep, I think that's why I felt like he had more - because he arguably should have.
Great innings, but I bet he's fuming about that!
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 24, 2021, 12:14:21 PM
Post by: Rory on January 24, 2021, 12:32:36 PM
Credit where it's due. That was a great, instinctive piece of fielding.
I haven't seen it yet but it sounds that way, yeah.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 24, 2021, 12:48:42 PM
Post by: Rory on January 24, 2021, 01:32:37 PM
First time in Test history that a fielder (Thirimanne) has taken five catches off the same bowler (Embuldeniya) in the same innings.
Excluding 'keepers, I'm guessing?
Post by: Lsvilla on January 24, 2021, 01:41:44 PM
Credit where it's due. That was a great, instinctive piece of fielding.Bizarrely the throw actually missed the stumps and hit the stump mic positioned on the ground directly behind.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 24, 2021, 02:20:52 PM
Credit where it's due. That was a great, instinctive piece of fielding.Bizarrely the throw actually missed the stumps and hit the stump mic positioned on the ground directly behind.
Didn't see that at the time, but did think it was a bit strange the one bail only just about came off. After watching it again, that is what happened, the ball missed the stumps.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2021, 04:07:16 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 24, 2021, 04:23:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2021, 07:27:48 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2021, 07:32:21 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2021, 07:48:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2021, 07:54:40 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2021, 08:03:45 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2021, 08:07:25 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 25, 2021, 08:09:56 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2021, 08:15:06 AM
Post by: KevinGage on January 25, 2021, 08:42:50 AM
Bess batted well with Root. But Wood coming in and trying to go T20 looked horribly misjudged at the time and even moreso now. Durability and backing up the captain was the order of the day, He's a bowler though, so what can you do. Probably should have been batting lower.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 25, 2021, 09:12:55 AM
In the SL 2nd innings, England took all 10 wickets with spin
I wonder if they've ever done that before ?
Post by: olaftab on January 25, 2021, 09:23:48 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 25, 2021, 09:42:36 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 25, 2021, 09:45:30 AM
Post by: Rory on January 25, 2021, 10:31:24 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 25, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2021, 11:24:14 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 25, 2021, 11:25:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2021, 11:38:19 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2021, 11:40:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2021, 11:42:16 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 25, 2021, 11:47:35 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 25, 2021, 11:50:06 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 25, 2021, 12:04:15 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 25, 2021, 01:01:03 PM
Both might be the case, but is it really needed after the series has just been wrapped up.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 25, 2021, 02:17:31 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/55796557
This means England will play four different countries at home
Plus there's still the possibility of a Test against Ireland
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2021, 03:52:49 PM
Excellent win and a good series win as well. The negativity in the media astounds me sometimes though. After spending the last few days telling everyone how hard it is going to be to win, now that they have the lines of Vaughan and Tufnel saying on the BBC that Sri Lanka are really poor and there is going to have to be massive improvement in India
Both might be the case, but is it really needed after the series has just been wrapped up.
As they were saying in the sky commentary that's 5 away test in a row now, it's bene over a century since England last did that, I'm not sure there's any need for negativity around the team right now.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 25, 2021, 07:47:41 PM
Excellent win and a good series win as well. The negativity in the media astounds me sometimes though. After spending the last few days telling everyone how hard it is going to be to win, now that they have the lines of Vaughan and Tufnel saying on the BBC that Sri Lanka are really poor and there is going to have to be massive improvement in India
Both might be the case, but is it really needed after the series has just been wrapped up.
As they were saying in the sky commentary that's 5 away test in a row now, it's bene over a century since England last did that, I'm not sure there's any need for negativity around the team right now.
Agree Paul. Yes, Sri Lanka are nowhere near as strong as they have been in past years and of course India will be a much tougher test, but why start bringing that up straight after a very good test and series win?
Post by: nordenvillain on January 25, 2021, 08:25:25 PM
In the SL 1st innings, England took all 10 wickets with seam1st time in test history apparently
In the SL 2nd innings, England took all 10 wickets with spin
I wonder if they've ever done that before ?
Post by: Steve67 on January 25, 2021, 08:38:03 PM
Excellent win and a good series win as well. The negativity in the media astounds me sometimes though. After spending the last few days telling everyone how hard it is going to be to win, now that they have the lines of Vaughan and Tufnel saying on the BBC that Sri Lanka are really poor and there is going to have to be massive improvement in India
Both might be the case, but is it really needed after the series has just been wrapped up.
As they were saying in the sky commentary that's 5 away test in a row now, it's bene over a century since England last did that, I'm not sure there's any need for negativity around the team right now.
Agree Paul. Yes, Sri Lanka are nowhere near as strong as they have been in past years and of course India will be a much tougher test, but why start bringing that up straight after a very good test and series win?
Let's be honest, 165 to win seemed a mountain to climb didn't it? It was a fantastic win and Tufnel is a soundbite twat. Some real positives to take from that series and a good pre-cursor for the India tour.
Post by: Lsvilla on January 25, 2021, 10:32:11 PM
Post by: Rory on January 26, 2021, 08:52:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2021, 09:03:17 AM
Post by: Rory on January 26, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
Vaughan has a tendency to either make up words or use the wrong words in the context of what he’s trying to say. I wouldn’t mind normally, but I get the impression he thinks he’s quite bright.
Definitely. He's quite a condescending man.
Post by: PGW on January 26, 2021, 10:19:41 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 26, 2021, 11:27:32 AM
Looks like the India series is not going to be on sky or BT and is rumoured to be a fight between Amazon and Disney - which presumably means more to pay out to watch. Anyone know any more ?
That's a bugger.
It hadn't crossed my mind that anyone other than Sky or BT would have the rights.
Looks like Disney are setting up a dedicated channel. Not sure if this'll be satellite or internet based.
All seems unnecessary to me, seeing as Disney own ESPN which already has a link up with BT Sport
Does Disney offer a month to month subscription ?
I could watch the India Tests, see what the fuss is all about re that Star Wars Bounty Hunter series and then drop it
In more bad news, TalkSport have the UK radio rights :(
Post by: UK Redsox on January 26, 2021, 11:37:47 AM
However, The S*n (must check my anti-virus software) has the following in an article from just a couple of days ago
Quote
Which TV channel and live stream can I watch it on?
To watch England play in the UK, you'll need to have Sky Sports Cricket.
Sky have exclusive rights to show every ball of England's matches in 2021.
If Sky did have the rights, they'd have been promoting the hell out of it and I've seen no adverts
Post by: Lsvilla on January 26, 2021, 12:05:00 PM
The sports listings sites show the broadcaster as TBCAgree that we’d know about it by now if Sky were showing it - like every ad break is currently advertising some Alien nonsense stating on Thursday (I think - try not to get sucked into it !).
However, The S*n (must check my anti-virus software) has the following in an article from just a couple of days agoQuoteWhich TV channel and live stream can I watch it on?
To watch England play in the UK, you'll need to have Sky Sports Cricket.
Sky have exclusive rights to show every ball of England's matches in 2021.
If Sky did have the rights, they'd have been promoting the hell out of it and I've seen no adverts
That comment won’t be true anyway as the Ashes will be on BT next winter and 4 of those tests are scheduled for this year. I suspect they are referring to home tests.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 26, 2021, 12:06:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2021, 01:28:59 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 26, 2021, 01:38:55 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 27, 2021, 12:48:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 27, 2021, 07:30:26 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 27, 2021, 09:40:34 AM
Quote
How to watch India vs England live in the UK
It is still unclear who will broadcast the series in the UK. As Telegraph Sport revealed in December, the tour is set to be shown on Disney's Hotstar streaming service, although the final arrangements have yet to be confirmed.
Star Sports, part of the Disney empire, has exclusive rights to broadcast cricket within India and sells on its access to broadcasters in other territories, such as Sky or BT.
But the explosion in popularity of streaming services, such as its Disney+ channel, has led Disney to seriously consider retaining the rights, worth around £20 million, and screening matches in this country via one of its own digital platforms rather than selling them on to a traditional broadcaster.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 27, 2021, 09:42:16 AM
Disney and Amazon are both priced much more reasonably than BT Sport or Sky PLUS Sky Sports.
Not really a like for like comparison though.
BT Sport and Sky Sport offer far more content than Amazon, and now Disney
Post by: UK Redsox on January 28, 2021, 11:32:41 PM
https://inews.co.uk/sport/cricket/india-vs-england-tv-rights-channel-4-test-series-uk-live-coverage-bt-sport-sky-848462
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 29, 2021, 12:39:50 AM
Disney and Amazon are both priced much more reasonably than BT Sport or Sky PLUS Sky Sports.
Not really a like for like comparison though.
BT Sport and Sky Sport offer far more content than Amazon, and now Disney
Not sure how you get to that conclusion?
Post by: UK Redsox on January 29, 2021, 09:15:30 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 30, 2021, 12:48:50 PM
Seems like one match on Channel 4, the rest on cunty BT bastard Sport is now the most likely. Really wish BT Sport would go bust.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 30, 2021, 01:31:26 PM
https://wisden.com/series-stories/india-v-england/channel-4-emerge-as-frontrunner-to-show-india-england-tests-in-the-uk-reports
Post by: olaftab on February 02, 2021, 01:19:27 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/02/channel-4-wins-rights-for-england-test-cricket-tour-of-india
Post by: UK Redsox on February 02, 2021, 01:29:48 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 02, 2021, 07:04:58 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 02, 2021, 11:33:06 PM
Ah, that's brilliant well done India, obviously less money grabbing parasites than the ECB.
What do you mean about the ECB? I mean playing 17 test matches in a calendar year seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 02, 2021, 11:43:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 03, 2021, 06:36:05 AM
I was on about them selling out to Sky after England won The Ashes back. England matches are of national interest and should be free to air. India have got England tests back on terrestrial TV again so well done them.
It could be argued that Sky’s money has helped pave the way to the Cricket World Cup win. BBC lost the rights years ago because they got complacent, believing that the old school TCCB wouldn’t upset the apple cart and Channel 4 got outbid in a commercial tendering process. You can’t have it both ways, I prefer a successful England team and if Sky are funding that then so be it.
As much as I love cricket, test matches aren’t of national interest. They’re of interest to people like us who are fans of a minority sport.
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 03, 2021, 08:52:55 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 03, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 03, 2021, 02:19:33 PM
It's exactly the opposite for Sky and BT, cricket is great for them because it fills up vast chunks of air time.
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 03, 2021, 02:29:43 PM
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
Chicken and egg situation though. Viewers will always be lower on sky, as it's behind a paywall. 2005 was a peak as we hadn't beaten the Aussies in ages, but 2015 was 3rd ashes series in the space of two years, so probably some apathy setting in amongst the wider public at that point.
Good blog here about the ECB's position of money above all else - https://beingoutsidecricket.com/
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 03, 2021, 02:31:12 PM
I was on about them selling out to Sky after England won The Ashes back. England matches are of national interest and should be free to air. India have got England tests back on terrestrial TV again so well done them.
Nothing to do with India to be fair. Their rights are already sold on to Hotstar (I think), who then just sell the rights on to the highest bidder in each overseas market.
BCCI and ECB have had little to do with it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 03, 2021, 02:51:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 03, 2021, 05:38:13 PM
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
Chicken and egg situation though. Viewers will always be lower on sky, as it's behind a paywall. 2005 was a peak as we hadn't beaten the Aussies in ages, but 2015 was 3rd ashes series in the space of two years, so probably some apathy setting in amongst the wider public at that point.
Good blog here about the ECB's position of money above all else - https://beingoutsidecricket.com/
You, and the article linked, may be right but I suspect in this case the issue is more that BT and Sky decided it was too short notice to bother so the price was a lot lower than expected. For those channels the value comes from both advertising and subscriptions, if a few hundred thousand people buy a month subscription to watch a series that's a big pot they can add to the advertising and, they'll hope, it means those people will watch some other content as well to get value from it. That's a big gamble if they can't be sure they'll get a steady amount of viewers for most of the days. The day-night test would probably be ok but the others are relying on people getting up at 4am just to watch cricket.
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 03, 2021, 11:01:38 PM
I was on about them selling out to Sky after England won The Ashes back. England matches are of national interest and should be free to air. India have got England tests back on terrestrial TV again so well done them.
Nothing to do with India to be fair. Their rights are already sold on to Hotstar (I think), who then just sell the rights on to the highest bidder in each overseas market.
BCCI and ECB have had little to do with it.
Ah okay, fair enough. ECB still do have the rights to home games though and chose to take all that post-2005 goodwill and sell it off for 30 pieces of silver.
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 03, 2021, 11:07:25 PM
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
Not really sure how quoting Sky viewing figures helps your cause. They were much better on terrestrial television, as you would expect.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/aug/30/ashes2005.broadcasting
As for the 25 days, that's still less than the snooker gets on terrestrial telly every year. And I love snooker but suggesting that terrestrial television can find 36 days (I think) every year for snooker but it would be impossible to schedule a home Ashes once every four years is a stretch, I think.
Especially as... they did manage to show The Ashes on Channel 4 till it was taken off them to sell out to Sky, and I'm sure Channel 4 would happily snatch your hand off to show the whole Ashes again if they could afford it.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 04, 2021, 03:35:12 PM
I tell you what it’s a right kick in the balls when you see Talksport have the radio rights as opposed to TMS.
Agreed. With a lot of the cricket during the working week, TMS is essential.
TalkSport's cricket coverage is nowhere near that quality.
However, at least it's better than TalkSport's football commentaries, which I find unlistenable
Post by: paul_e on February 04, 2021, 04:02:48 PM
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
Not really sure how quoting Sky viewing figures helps your cause. They were much better on terrestrial television, as you would expect.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/aug/30/ashes2005.broadcasting
As for the 25 days, that's still less than the snooker gets on terrestrial telly every year. And I love snooker but suggesting that terrestrial television can find 36 days (I think) every year for snooker but it would be impossible to schedule a home Ashes once every four years is a stretch, I think.
Especially as... they did manage to show The Ashes on Channel 4 till it was taken off them to sell out to Sky, and I'm sure Channel 4 would happily snatch your hand off to show the whole Ashes again if they could afford it.
To be fair reading it back that post doesn't really make the point I was intending to and this isn't a cause, I'd prefer the games to be free to air and I also don't disagree that viewing figures would be higher but that's not really the point, it's about commercial viability.
Sky got comparatively poor figures in the match I highlighted but were still happy to outbid for almost every series in the next 5 years (with BT picking up a couple). Last year there was an iT20 against Pakistan shown on BBC and Sky where the former had 4 times the number of viewers and again that doesn't put sky off because the number of viewers they need is significantly lower than channels like BBC and C4.
For the home series of the ashes maybe C4 would be willing to gamble on spending enough to compete but they'd struggle to justify the costs for almost any other test matches and if protecting that series for them meant sky offered significantly less for the rest the overall impact on the game could be highly damaging. As I say test cricket is a niche sport that just won't be able to sustain a 5 day average audience (peak viewing figures aren't useful in this regard) that's big enough for the ECB to be able to make up the drop in income that blocking sky from bidding would create.
Post by: manic-road on February 04, 2021, 06:37:35 PM
Post by: Rory on February 04, 2021, 10:34:38 PM
Probably 90% of the live sport I watch is cricket, so I don't mind paying a bit extra for it. What bothers me is when it's split between broadcasters. I was dismayed to find out the Big Bash was on BT Sport. I looked into buying it, but I already pay an additional £25 a month for Sky Sports, I can't justify £25 on top of that.
I'd happily pay, say, £20 a month extra to watch cricket, whatever channel it's on, and forego the Sky 'Super Sunday' Burnley vs Crystal Palace, or Aussie Rules, Netball or whatever else is on BT.
Post by: Rory on February 04, 2021, 10:42:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2021, 07:25:36 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2021, 07:30:54 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on February 05, 2021, 08:09:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2021, 08:45:20 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 05, 2021, 09:57:11 AM
That said looking at the pitch it doesn't look in great condition, it's patchy in places which means it might become a bit of a minefield on day 4/5 so we need to be looking at batting 2 days and setting 450+
If you look at the batsmen mark it's not taking much for big cracks to be showing.
Post by: manic-road on February 05, 2021, 10:00:58 AM
Post by: Holte132 on February 05, 2021, 10:34:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2021, 10:39:36 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 05, 2021, 10:59:49 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 05, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
The Test record for a calendar year is 1788.
He must have a chance
Post by: paul_e on February 05, 2021, 11:10:42 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 05, 2021, 11:28:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2021, 11:28:48 AM
Post by: Rory on February 05, 2021, 12:30:45 PM
Post by: Monty on February 05, 2021, 01:16:52 PM
Root becomes the 3rd English batsman to score a century in his 100th test - Cowdrey and Alec Stewart being the other two
Didn't Boycott as well? Or am I getting mixed up with his 100th first class hundred?
Post by: Villa Lew on February 05, 2021, 01:36:46 PM
Post by: Monty on February 05, 2021, 01:56:21 PM
You're getting mixed up with his 100th 100
Thought so.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2021, 03:39:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 05, 2021, 05:15:16 PM
Root becomes the 3rd English batsman to score a century in his 100th test - Cowdrey and Alec Stewart being the other two
Didn't Boycott as well? Or am I getting mixed up with his 100th first class hundred?
...or maybe his 99th ;)
Post by: Villan For Life on February 05, 2021, 05:59:26 PM
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
It’s the host broadcaster that’s responsible for that. I really miss the Sky commentators!
Post by: Holte132 on February 05, 2021, 06:07:01 PM
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
Totally agree with you! It's so hard to see that tiny arrow indicating which batsman is on strike.
Post by: paul_e on February 05, 2021, 06:20:25 PM
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
It’s the host broadcaster that’s responsible for that. I really miss the Sky commentators!
I agree the commentators were nowhere near as good, I thought the overlay might be the host one, either way it's shit compared to the standard sky sets for it.
I'm not even being a fanboy over it, it's just that this looks like something from the turn of the century at best.
Post by: manic-road on February 06, 2021, 07:03:31 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 06, 2021, 07:51:44 AM
Fine knock from Stokes as well - getting 80 odd in that fashion after no cricket is so impressive.
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 06, 2021, 07:58:48 AM
Post by: Monty on February 06, 2021, 08:17:01 AM
Root becomes the 3rd English batsman to score a century in his 100th test - Cowdrey and Alec Stewart being the other two
Didn't Boycott as well? Or am I getting mixed up with his 100th first class hundred?
...or maybe his 99th ;)
This is amazing.
Also how charming to hear Boycott refer to 'a black government' in post-apartheid South Africa. Lovely.
Post by: KevinGage on February 06, 2021, 08:25:38 AM
Totally at ease, looks like he's done it in third gear all the way through.
Post by: CT on February 06, 2021, 08:26:41 AM
Magnificent innings from Mr Root.
Post by: Monty on February 06, 2021, 08:31:09 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 06, 2021, 08:57:39 AM
Post by: Holte132 on February 06, 2021, 09:09:20 AM
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
Totally agree with you! It's so hard to see that tiny arrow indicating which batsman is on strike.
Someone has noticed the tiny arrow and made it larger, more colourful and easy to see now! Much better
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 06, 2021, 09:23:24 AM
Post by: Monty on February 06, 2021, 09:26:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 06, 2021, 09:33:14 AM
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 06, 2021, 10:10:31 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2021, 10:17:37 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2021, 10:31:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 06, 2021, 10:34:21 AM
Post by: Rory on February 06, 2021, 10:38:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2021, 10:47:43 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 06, 2021, 10:50:05 AM
I'd be happy with 550 because the quicks are getting a bit of help from the pitch, that suits us. See out the day and face 1 over in the morning so we can choose what happens to the pitch.
The pitch is rolled at an innings changeover regardless.
I don't mind us batting on, but Bess at least should be playing a lot more positive.
Post by: olaftab on February 06, 2021, 10:57:35 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on February 06, 2021, 11:44:56 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 06, 2021, 11:45:31 AM
I'd be happy with 550 because the quicks are getting a bit of help from the pitch, that suits us. See out the day and face 1 over in the morning so we can choose what happens to the pitch.
The pitch is rolled at an innings changeover regardless.
I don't mind us batting on, but Bess at least should be playing a lot more positive.
But only a light roller. The heavy roller is only used overnight and only if the batting team ask for it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 06, 2021, 12:21:45 PM
There is no point in batting on now. This is decent score and much hard work will be required from bowlers to get a win here. Any more time taken up batting will only help India.
Don’t agree - as long as we’re bowling after the first hour tomorrow this makes sense. It also puts miles in the legs of the Indians for the rest of the series.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 07, 2021, 07:42:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 07, 2021, 08:15:21 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 07, 2021, 08:43:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 07, 2021, 10:11:17 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 07, 2021, 10:23:43 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on February 07, 2021, 10:46:29 AM
On another note - amazing effort by WI to chase 395 batting last in Bangladesh which shows what can be done (and perhaps undermines my theory !!).
Post by: paul_e on February 07, 2021, 10:50:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 07, 2021, 11:00:31 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 07, 2021, 12:19:43 PM
Post by: manic-road on February 08, 2021, 07:53:38 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on February 08, 2021, 07:55:15 AM
Game is setting up nicely for what could be a nice finish, Stokes out now. Think we might need a lead of 400.Yep. Look what happened in Bangladesh and what’s currently happening in Pakistan. India not out of this yet.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2021, 08:43:56 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2021, 08:55:14 AM
I think we'll bat another 8-10 overs and get 400ish on the board, will mean there's still 26-28 overs today.
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2021, 09:36:19 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 08, 2021, 09:37:57 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2021, 09:45:10 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 08, 2021, 09:48:21 AM
What makes it all the more baffling is that Pope was playing very aggressively after tea. Why has his wicket forced a change of tactic?
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2021, 09:50:47 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 08, 2021, 09:52:04 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on February 08, 2021, 10:04:06 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 08, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on February 08, 2021, 10:23:42 AM
England have been excellent in this test, but if it ends tomorrow with India 8 down, they will deserve every bit of criticism they get in afraid.
I haven't watched England for a while, but I'm more worried about India winning it, given what they did in Strylia!
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2021, 11:04:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2021, 11:36:13 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 08, 2021, 11:36:15 AM
That was still a poor session from England though. We should have had at least another 7 or 8 overs to bowl, and the lead should have been 440. Even in the field the body language was very flat, even after the wicket. Like we just couldn't wait for the day to be over.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2021, 02:35:15 PM
Post by: manic-road on February 09, 2021, 05:25:00 AM
Post by: JD on February 09, 2021, 05:29:26 AM
Three quick wickets by him :).
Post by: Lsvilla on February 09, 2021, 05:35:12 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 09, 2021, 06:10:41 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 09, 2021, 08:07:11 AM
Post by: JD on February 09, 2021, 08:09:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2021, 11:49:37 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 09, 2021, 01:46:20 PM
The 3 ball spell from Jimmy to get Gill and Rahane is scary, totally unplayable and the Stokes ball to get Kohli is just as good.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 09, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
Post by: Moonraker on February 09, 2021, 01:55:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 09, 2021, 02:06:38 PM
Yes, great final day. Jimmy at 38 was just outstanding. Would be a big call to rest him for the next Test. Channel 4 coverage not brilliant, I know it is difficult in covid times but the punditry with Sirs Cooky and Straussy wasn't the best!
I understand the arguments for free-to-air test matches but I don't think it is helped by a product that is so clearly inferior to Sky (the BT coverage is in the middle somewhere) when they get a chance. I get that they had very little notice and are using almost entirely the starsports footage but it's still very poor, I hope it improves as the series progresses. That said, for me, Cook was ok and added some decent insight but the in-play commentary was poor, it's the first time in a while where I'd have preferred to mute it and put TMS on but I couldn't even do that (to be clear that's no slight on TMS which is excellent if I can't watch it but I normally can't be arsed with trying to sync up the radio and pictures, this test I'd happily have put the time in if I'd had the choice).
Post by: UK Redsox on February 09, 2021, 03:27:56 PM
(NK & MB are normally restricted to T20 games on Sky). Their Indian colleagues were ok as well. Good to have the commentators in the stadium.
Sir Chef has been great on his TMS appearances. I've tended to watch this Test on fast-forward, so haven't listened to his C4 studio contributions.
The somewhat poor pictures and graphics are down to the host broadcaster. Nowt C4 can do about that really.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 09, 2021, 08:02:41 PM
I love TMS, it’s not as good as it was but it’s street ahead of the rest.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 09, 2021, 08:23:00 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 10, 2021, 09:39:19 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 10, 2021, 05:57:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 11, 2021, 06:01:34 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 11, 2021, 06:58:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 11, 2021, 07:27:10 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 11, 2021, 07:45:08 PM
Do they bring in Stone as an almost like for like replacement? Broad or Woakes, drop Jimmy and play both Broad and Woakes? Even Moeen could be an option?
Who are you going for?
I’d keep Jimmy in and go for Stone’s extra pace.
Post by: Monty on February 11, 2021, 07:47:20 PM
Post by: simboy on February 11, 2021, 08:03:02 PM
Whilst I don’t really like Talk Sport doing the cricket (far too little description by main commentators and too much emotive stuff) they had a good chat about squad rotation at lunch on the 5th day. England are very alive to its benefits in prolonging careers, rather than mocking players who “needed a rest” as happened previously.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 11, 2021, 10:16:06 PM
I think they will rotate Anderson and Broad. The stated plan is to win the Ashes in Australia, as such both are very important to that ambition. The bubble squad will allow them to replace the whole attack if they wanted to. Also, the next Test is a day/night game, surely both start in that one, and I cannot see them wanting Anderson to play three on the bounce at this point.
Whilst I don’t really like Talk Sport doing the cricket (far too little description by main commentators and too much emotive stuff) they had a good chat about squad rotation at lunch on the 5th day. England are very alive to its benefits in prolonging careers, rather than mocking players who “needed a rest” as happened previously.
So who do you replace Archer with?
Post by: simboy on February 12, 2021, 08:42:47 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 12, 2021, 09:17:58 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2021, 11:11:30 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 12, 2021, 11:31:16 AM
I’m quite surprised Bess is out. He had a poor second innings, but a good first.
They could have just announced it as a rotation more, seeing as Moeen's not played any games yet.
However, the way that the 12 was announced made it pretty clear that Bess was the only one dropped
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2021, 12:03:00 PM
Post by: Gareth on February 12, 2021, 01:40:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 12, 2021, 04:07:03 PM
Selections make sense, rotating all the bowlers across the 4 tests is sensible - sure if he hadn’t had Covid Mo would have played in Sri Lanka - would expect either Stone or Woakes miss out tomorrow but hope they all get game time in this series - can see Woakes & Anderson leading the attack in the day night test
The more i think on it the more I'd lean towards Waokes playing in this one. If you watch the wickets from the last 2 days the drift and late swing was incredible and conditions don't look likely to change so someone who plays for that movement is probably more useful. From what i can make out the stadium for the last 2 tests is generally considered one for the batsman so that where people like Archer and Stone who can create panic from nothing will be more useful.
Post by: simboy on February 12, 2021, 04:59:27 PM
Mo coming in is logical, I thought Bess bowled pretty poorly in most of the last three tests, with conditions to suit. Leach has improved as the games have gone on. Ali more likely to score you a 50 (although just as likely to get out first ball!). What I hadn’t realised is Bess is so young. Swann struggled early so hopefully he’ll come good.
Foakes batting isn’t to be written off, has a sub-continent hundred and is the better keeper of the three.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2021, 07:50:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2021, 07:57:19 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2021, 07:58:08 AM
Post by: Villafirst on February 13, 2021, 08:06:18 AM
Post by: simboy on February 13, 2021, 08:13:25 AM
Think if India get past 275 England are going to struggle. Looks a bit of a full on Bunsen to me
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2021, 08:22:37 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 13, 2021, 09:33:33 AM
That said India are making it look very easy at the moment.They are arn't they, Rohit has played like it's a limited overs game at times which may be the right approach because the pitch surface is full of small cracks and that one ball may hit a crack and make it unplayable.
Can't see this game going into the fifth day.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 13, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
That said India are making it look very easy at the moment.
Yep, this is looking a bit ominous at the moment and we need to slow them down. On another note, how can you go from no fans to the amount that are there in the space of a few days?
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 13, 2021, 10:39:04 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2021, 10:43:02 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 13, 2021, 10:44:30 AM
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2021, 10:59:00 AM
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2021, 11:00:32 AM
Wickets fall as soon as I stop watching. Will bear in mind for future sessions.
I did the same. Walked the dog and India lose two wickets. That stumping was out as well, cheating swine!! Where is VAR when you need it? Mike Dean would have given it, and sent him off!
Post by: Damo70 on February 13, 2021, 11:06:16 AM
Wickets fall as soon as I stop watching. Will bear in mind for future sessions.
I did the same. Walked the dog and India lose two wickets. That stumping was out as well, cheating swine!! Where is VAR when you need it? Mike Dean would have given it, and sent him off!
Same here with me, the wickets went when I finally decided to sack it off.
Post by: olaftab on February 13, 2021, 11:08:44 AM
At least Grace had the decency to refuse an LBW.
Post by: olaftab on February 13, 2021, 11:12:32 AM
Post by: Ads on February 13, 2021, 11:14:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2021, 11:16:39 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 13, 2021, 11:39:29 AM
We didn't bowl too badly, apart from Moeen who was poor.
Post by: paul_e on February 13, 2021, 11:40:10 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 13, 2021, 11:45:20 AM
It looks like a lot of runs on this pitch.
Yep and they've got them fairly quickly as well which is always a concern. They could conceivably be at 450 - 475 plus by tea tomorrow, which would be a very strong position.
We need some early wickets tomorrow morning.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 13, 2021, 11:47:35 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 13, 2021, 11:53:56 AM
I'm not sure, the pitch isn't great but I'd still say 300-350 is par. We need early wickets tomorrow but I'd say it's pretty even so far.
300-350 Is possibly a par score as the pitch has been during the course of day 1. It's only going to get harder to bat on though. End of day 2 the pitch is going to be akin to batting on a day 5 pitch
Post by: Villan For Life on February 13, 2021, 12:23:52 PM
End of day 2 the pitch is going to be akin to batting on a day 5 pitch
I think you’re absolutely right and for that reason, India have just batted us out of the test. Ravi Ashwin will be looking forward to bowling on it, it was prepared with him in mind.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 13, 2021, 05:16:27 PM
However, I didn’t factor in a Third Umpire completely forgetting the procedure for reviewing a catch.
I think that the stumping decision was ok. The stump cam suggested that there was something just about behind the line.
No problem with Kohli either. The umpires were also unsure what happened and they were looking at the stumps. Kohli was looking away from the stumps, so why should it be up to him to walk.
Post by: paul_e on February 13, 2021, 05:26:42 PM
The lack of experienced Test umpires in India had potential to be a problem.
However, I didn’t factor in a Third Umpire completely forgetting the procedure for reviewing a catch.
I think that the stumping decision was ok. The stump cam suggested that there was something just about behind the line.
No problem with Kohli either. The umpires were also unsure what happened and they were looking at the stumps. Kohli was looking away from the stumps, so why should it be up to him to walk.
I'd agree with all of that, it was only really the catch that bothered me.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 14, 2021, 07:50:01 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 08:09:36 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 08:38:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 08:41:10 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 14, 2021, 09:05:14 AM
Post by: Ads on February 14, 2021, 09:16:25 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 14, 2021, 09:31:55 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 14, 2021, 09:33:36 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 09:35:55 AM
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 14, 2021, 09:43:12 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 10:05:16 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 14, 2021, 10:08:19 AM
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 14, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 10:28:48 AM
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 14, 2021, 10:35:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 10:40:06 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on February 14, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 14, 2021, 10:41:03 AM
Post by: Steve67 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 11:16:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2021, 11:30:14 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 14, 2021, 12:09:49 PM
Yup. As I said Rohit's inning took the match out of England's hand. They have done a job all around from the way the pitch was prepared and how Sharma went about playing it one day style.End of day 2 the pitch is going to be akin to batting on a day 5 pitch
I think you’re absolutely right and for that reason, India have just batted us out of the test. Ravi Ashwin will be looking forward to bowling on it, it was prepared with him in mind.
Post by: Monty on February 15, 2021, 06:27:27 AM
Post by: sid1964 on February 15, 2021, 07:13:31 AM
Post by: CT on February 15, 2021, 07:29:34 AM
Amazed to see the number of spectators in the ground - no masks or social distancing - India must have the virus well under control?
Same, I didn’t want to ask because I thought I’d missed something. The first test was behind closed doors, while this a few days later is 50% with people all sat together.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 15, 2021, 08:06:54 AM
Post by: Monty on February 15, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
Amazed to see the number of spectators in the ground - no masks or social distancing - India must have the virus well under control?
Same, I didn’t want to ask because I thought I’d missed something. The first test was behind closed doors, while this a few days later is 50% with people all sat together.
It's basically how they've done it in India, lockdowns have been short and sharp and right now life is close to normal there.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 15, 2021, 11:41:15 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 15, 2021, 08:46:10 PM
What a bellend Kohli is being. You’re going to win and what are you complaining about? He should be fined.
It was out though IMO (and that of Mark Butcher as well)
The superimposed pictures showed impact in line but ball tracking had it a fraction outside.
I know Virat can be a bit of a nob, but I think he’s been right to question things in this Test.
Same as Root was when the Umps ballsed up the review process.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 15, 2021, 08:50:48 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 15, 2021, 09:15:27 PM
With the way people are sat together what was the point of limiting it to 15000 only?Amazed to see the number of spectators in the ground - no masks or social distancing - India must have the virus well under control?
Same, I didn’t want to ask because I thought I’d missed something. The first test was behind closed doors, while this a few days later is 50% with people all sat together.
Post by: Gareth on February 16, 2021, 07:15:51 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2021, 08:11:07 AM
Post by: Gareth on February 16, 2021, 08:31:03 AM
He will no doubt have given thick as pundits like Vaughan someone to blame for the loss though.
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 16, 2021, 08:40:25 AM
It’s very very odd that Moeen is now going home.
Think he was always scheduled to go home after 2nd test. Understandable after he isolated for 2 weeks in Sri Lanka after testing positive. Would have probably played in SL otherwise.
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 16, 2021, 08:41:59 AM
It was a bit of a gamble to throw him in after no red ball cricket for what 18 months? If he was always going home after 2 games you would have thought he either played first two games or played neither as he was always unlikely to hit it straight away to give control.
He will no doubt have given thick as pundits like Vaughan someone to blame for the loss though.
The more Vaughan tweets about players going home and just constantly wanting England to flog the same 11 players, the more it makes you think about the physical and mental.issues suffered by the likes of Tres, Flintoff, Harrison, Jones, Hoggard etc. Under his captaincy.
Post by: Gareth on February 16, 2021, 08:49:11 AM
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 16, 2021, 08:51:57 AM
Vaughan is an utter plank - click bait pundit
Yep, and for someone who is so anti-lockdown on twitter, he seems very keen to keep all the England.players in a constant covid bubble.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2021, 08:59:02 AM
Post by: PGW on February 16, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
I think if Moeen was always going home after this Test it’s a weird decision to pick him. He was always going to struggle for control, which is understandable, but if he’s not playing again then he’s not gaining anything. At the same time it disrupts Bess trying to develop control, who will probably now come in and will have been disrupted.He is not coping with being in the bubble and is struggling mentally. He has requested to be released and reluctantly they've agreed.
Post by: olaftab on February 16, 2021, 01:38:51 PM
Yes particularly the "mental" issue he inflicted upon Trescothick.It was a bit of a gamble to throw him in after no red ball cricket for what 18 months? If he was always going home after 2 games you would have thought he either played first two games or played neither as he was always unlikely to hit it straight away to give control.
He will no doubt have given thick as pundits like Vaughan someone to blame for the loss though.
The more Vaughan tweets about players going home and just constantly wanting England to flog the same 11 players, the more it makes you think about the physical and mental.issues suffered by the likes of Tres, Flintoff, Harrison, Jones, Hoggard etc. Under his captaincy.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2021, 02:39:05 PM
I think if Moeen was always going home after this Test it’s a weird decision to pick him. He was always going to struggle for control, which is understandable, but if he’s not playing again then he’s not gaining anything. At the same time it disrupts Bess trying to develop control, who will probably now come in and will have been disrupted.He is not coping with being in the bubble and is struggling mentally. He has requested to be released and reluctantly they've agreed.
Yeah that’s fair enough, but you kind of think if that’s the case then let him go home before this game.
Post by: olaftab on February 16, 2021, 05:24:10 PM
Post by: hipkiss92 on February 16, 2021, 08:46:44 PM
Moeen has been treated in an exemplary manner by the England set up. Let's hope he recovers fully for home summer of cricket. I fear that this season will be his last chance to make it back as a Test cricketer. By the looks of it he is being given the necessary support and time.
Absolutely. I think some clumsy language by Root at the end of the game has thrown Mo under a bit of a bus and made it like he's asked to go home, when in reality he's getting the same treatment as all the other white ball players.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 16, 2021, 08:48:18 PM
I don’t think that Mo leaving was pre-planned.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2021, 08:49:22 PM
Post by: Gareth on February 16, 2021, 10:29:37 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 17, 2021, 09:04:26 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56086195
Post by: Villan For Life on February 17, 2021, 06:44:35 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 17, 2021, 08:02:54 PM
Well they completely screwed upon Moeen’s departure didn’t they?
Yeah, its been handled really badly and created a story where there wasn't one.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 18, 2021, 04:24:31 PM
Well they completely screwed upon Moeen’s departure didn’t they?
Yeah, its been handled really badly and created a story where there wasn't one.
All the other instances of people having a break (eg Jofra, Wood, Buttler, Stokes and Curran) were announced in advance.
Since Moeen was due to go home after the first test, why hadn't that been announced earlier? ....or had it ?
Root's normally pretty good PR wise, so I was surprised that he said things that required a rapid reverse ferret
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 18, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 23, 2021, 08:41:19 PM
I thought that he’d retired years ago.
Still giving it some when signalling a Six
Post by: olaftab on February 23, 2021, 09:51:20 PM
Well at least Mo's got a decent IPL deal.Not doubting his integrity but amazing how he pitched his hat right in for IPL auction instead of choosing to fully recuperate from covid and get ready for home season?
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 08:48:55 AM
Post by: Martin Carruthers on February 24, 2021, 08:52:36 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 09:16:16 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 09:39:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 10:42:43 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 10:47:22 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 10:56:23 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 10:56:35 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 24, 2021, 11:00:17 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 24, 2021, 11:01:08 AM
Crawley should've reviewed that for me I'm not convinced it was hitting (although it would probably have clipped and gone with umpire's call, but as we wouldn't have lost the review it was worth a look).
Yep, although he would still have been out (Umpire's Call on hitting), it looked close enough to review
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 11:10:46 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 24, 2021, 11:26:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 11:38:47 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 11:52:32 AM
No way is this a pitch a team should be 81/5 on. We've batted very poorly
I'm not disputing that but, as they showed in the break, if the bowlers action is exactly the same but the ball is moving off the pitch almost randomly that's down to a poor pitch. India have clearly done it on purpose because they know we fall apart in these conditions but I think they've gone too far, the spouts of dust coming up make it look like day 4 or 5 not the first session or 2 of day 1.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 11:58:09 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 24, 2021, 12:01:34 PM
Questionable pitch or not some of this batting has been amateur.
That's being generous.
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 12:12:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 12:28:21 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 24, 2021, 12:40:01 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 24, 2021, 12:50:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 01:31:02 PM
Post by: Martin Carruthers on February 24, 2021, 01:34:22 PM
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 01:49:28 PM
Front on replays always make it look as though it has bounced, it is a shame that we didn't see anything side on.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 02:10:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 02:19:17 PM
I'm saying this as an excuse for a terrible batting performance, just pointing out that it's simply not good enough for test cricket and I'd think the same if it was us benefitting from it. There's a hole appearing right where the quicks are planting on the back of about 10-12 overs bowled by seamers from that end, that's just pathetic.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 02:21:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 02:24:05 PM
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 02:29:03 PM
Do people still think there's nothing wrong with this pitch?
I'm saying this as an excuse for a terrible batting performance, just pointing out that it's simply not good enough for test cricket and I'd think the same if it was us benefitting from it. There's a hole appearing right where the quicks are planting on the back of about 10-12 overs bowled by seamers from that end, that's just pathetic.
Still think the pitch is fine, sorry.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 02:37:53 PM
Do people still think there's nothing wrong with this pitch?
I'm saying this as an excuse for a terrible batting performance, just pointing out that it's simply not good enough for test cricket and I'd think the same if it was us benefitting from it. There's a hole appearing right where the quicks are planting on the back of about 10-12 overs bowled by seamers from that end, that's just pathetic.
Still think the pitch is fine, sorry.
Are you watching? Did you see the big divot that ripped out from Broads delivery stride and forced them to bring a groundsman on to beat the ground down? That shouldn't be happening on an international pitch, if nothing else it risks becoming dangerous from the seamers if it gets much worse. England batting badly doesn't give them a pass for that.
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 02:40:48 PM
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
Post by: Gareth on February 24, 2021, 02:46:02 PM
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
Probs shouldn’t do that after about 20 overs of seam but will become irrelevant when it is Leach & Root bowling 30/40 overs each once the first bursts are done
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 02:49:55 PM
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
Probs shouldn’t do that after about 20 overs of seam but will become irrelevant when it is Leach & Root bowling 30/40 overs each once the first bursts are done
Anderson and Broad have bowled 6 overs each over the wicket - if it had been that much of a concern or discomfort I think they would have gone around the wicket.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 02:54:02 PM
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
If you think a day pitch encouraging bowlers to change their line for their own safety is fine then I think we'll leave it at that.
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 03:02:30 PM
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
If you think a day pitch encouraging bowlers to change their line for their own safety is fine then I think we'll leave it at that.
They didn't need to, did they?
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 03:41:39 PM
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 03:57:52 PM
I don't think that would suggest a poor pitch.
The landing points are a different thing - obviously it isn't ideal but it is far from unique. One of the reasons for this could of course be dusk / night time conditions that we have had to bowl in.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 04:11:13 PM
But there are 2 different things really here that you've highlighted - you mentioned the ball behaving differently from their spinner (I don't know which balls you saw) but it could simply be a ball that simply didn't grip and went straight on.
I don't think that would suggest a poor pitch.
The landing points are a different thing - obviously it isn't ideal but it is far from unique. One of the reasons for this could of course be dusk / night time conditions that we have had to bowl in.
They're not different things though, both are consequences of their being almost no grass at the crease at either end, you can see that by simply looking for the painted line, it's almost completely disappeared at both ends on the side we're bowling from. What grass was there was just bound to the top layer of soil and that was lost in less than half a day of play. All of this means that the pitch has been allowed to dry out, with the intention of giving the spinners grip and turn from the first day but they've gone too far with it.
The deliveries I mentioned (and that the studio team raised) were as sign, for me, that the pitch was a dustbowl, what has happened in this last session with the England quicks just backs that up.
Anyway i don't want to argue about it, it won't change the game anyway, I just think there should be questions asked.
On the game itself Pope nearly got a wonder catch there, it that had stuck it'd have been one of the most replayed catches of all time, very unlucky.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 04:11:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 04:12:55 PM
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 04:14:57 PM
But there are 2 different things really here that you've highlighted - you mentioned the ball behaving differently from their spinner (I don't know which balls you saw) but it could simply be a ball that simply didn't grip and went straight on.
I don't think that would suggest a poor pitch.
The landing points are a different thing - obviously it isn't ideal but it is far from unique. One of the reasons for this could of course be dusk / night time conditions that we have had to bowl in.
They're not different things though, both are consequences of their being almost no grass at the crease at either end, you can see that by simply looking for the painted line, it's almost completely disappeared at both ends on the side we're bowling from. What grass was there was just bound to the top layer of soil and that was lost in less than half a day of play. All of this means that the pitch has been allowed to dry out, with the intention of giving the spinners grip and turn from the first day but they've gone too far with it.
The deliveries I mentioned (and that the studio team raised) were as sign, for me, that the pitch was a dustbowl, what has happened in this last session with the England quicks just backs that up.
Anyway i don't want to argue about it, it won't change the game anyway, I just think there should be questions asked.
On the game itself Pope nearly got a wonder catch there, it that had stuck it'd have been one of the most replayed catches of all time, very unlucky.
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 04:16:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 04:19:12 PM
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 04:19:27 PM
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 04:29:59 PM
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
Maybe, but I guess one of the consequences of bubble cricket is playing games at the same venues. And pitches turning on day 1 in India isn't something that should be surprising to anyone.
I would have thought before the series started this was our best chance of a result. As it turns out, we won the toss in the first one and batted very well. The frustrating thing for me today was winning the toss and batting so poorly.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 04:59:15 PM
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
Maybe, but I guess one of the consequences of bubble cricket is playing games at the same venues. And pitches turning on day 1 in India isn't something that should be surprising to anyone.
I would have thought before the series started this was our best chance of a result. As it turns out, we won the toss in the first one and batted very well. The frustrating thing for me today was winning the toss and batting so poorly.
Absolutely, I thought the pitch for the 2nd match was awful but I did understand, this one I really don't, I just don't see how any groundsman could look at this and think it would last for 10 days, that's my complaint, I want to see 2 matches where there's a decent contest between bat and ball and where, for at least some of the time, seamers and spinners can both have a decent impact, this pitch doesn't offer that. I remember a game in WI being called off as dangerous a decade or so back (where Harmison couldn't stand up) and I'm worried this will be every bit as bad as that was by the next match.
I might be wrong and it'll last ok but I'd expect better on day 1.
Post by: KevinGage on February 24, 2021, 05:09:10 PM
Gave them everything they wanted and more.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 24, 2021, 06:43:25 PM
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
They aren't the same pitches being used for both games at a venue though surely? One is being prepared whilst the other is being used.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 24, 2021, 07:09:30 PM
India batted with grit and placed a value on their wickets, we didn’t.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2021, 07:42:14 PM
As an aside I think the third umpiring in this series has been atrocious. The inconsistency today of looking at multiple angles for the Leach review and then barely looking at anything for the catch or the stumping was appalling. It doesn’t matter whether the decisions were out or not, you have to show the same level of diligence for both teams.
Post by: aev on February 24, 2021, 07:49:59 PM
We were by and large rubbish. What we need to do now is come out tomorrow and basically bowl perfectly and get everything right, and some luck. We need to limit India to no more than a 100 run lead to have any chance.
As an aside I think the third umpiring in this series has been atrocious. The inconsistency today of looking at multiple angles for the Leach review and then barely looking at anything for the catch or the stumping was appalling. It doesn’t matter whether the decisions were out or not, you have to show the same level of diligence for both teams.
Yep that has been poor. The on field umpires have been good though. The worst decision was when poor old Root was given not out (lbw) in the last test (I think).
Post by: Lsvilla on February 24, 2021, 07:55:52 PM
Correct. I’m more concerned about the pitches for the 5x T20’ss at the same venue especially given the importance of those as practice and in Indian conditions relative to the World Cup in October. I’d rather win that than a bilateral test series.Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
They aren't the same pitches being used for both games at a venue though surely? One is being prepared whilst the other is being used.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 08:13:01 PM
Correct. I’m more concerned about the pitches for the 5x T20’ss at the same venue especially given the importance of those as practice and in Indian conditions relative to the World Cup in October. I’d rather win that than a bilateral test series.Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
They aren't the same pitches being used for both games at a venue though surely? One is being prepared whilst the other is being used.
They didn't at the first venue, that was the same pitch with a few days of care in between.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2021, 08:16:50 PM
I never judge a batting performance in a test match until both teams have batted on it.
India batted with grit and placed a value on their wickets, we didn’t.
They were much better but with a little more luck on our side and marginal umpire call or 2 in our favour they could easily have been 4-5 down for less than 100, in much the same way a bit more luck with the same marginal calls and we could've had 40-50 more on the board. I suspect par on this would've been around 200 and if we bowl to our ability I think we can restrict them to that.
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2021, 10:44:39 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 25, 2021, 10:46:02 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 10:48:09 AM
England need to push for 200ish and I don't think you do that playing defensive on the back foot on this wicket, Crawley and Rohit both played with aggression and are the only 2 batsmen to come out with any credit.
Post by: manic-road on February 25, 2021, 10:50:07 AM
I never judge a batting performance in a test match until both teams have batted on it.
India batted with grit and placed a value on their wickets, we didn’t.
I'm not so sure India did.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 10:52:36 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 10:53:41 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 25, 2021, 10:55:09 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 25, 2021, 11:02:06 AM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 11:04:06 AM
If we can somehow get 300...
er...
Post by: manic-road on February 25, 2021, 11:06:28 AM
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2021, 11:06:50 AM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 11:07:03 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on February 25, 2021, 11:07:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 11:07:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 11:08:06 AM
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2021, 11:08:37 AM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 11:39:40 AM
Frustrating way for Sibley to go just as we were starting to get a bit of control.
More frustrating is I think we could put runs on the board in the 3rd session if we can survive to it with any batting left.
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2021, 11:40:05 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2021, 11:44:58 AM
I don't know what to make of Axar Patel, he's been superb for them but I'm not sure how his style would translate to conditions outside the sub-continent, he's very quick and flat for a spinner, he'd be more like a medium pacer in English conditions. I think part of the reason we've struggled so much with him is that you rarely see bowlers like this.Axar is the right tool for the job there. He will do well on the sub-continent but unlikely to venture far from home.
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2021, 11:49:57 AM
Post by: Monty on February 25, 2021, 11:53:06 AM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 12:00:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2021, 12:00:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 12:01:10 PM
and the 3rd umpire agrees with me, I think that's a good decision.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 12:05:01 PM
Not sure how this can be out, there looks like a tiny edge and for me it pitched outside off stump. Surely the benefit of the doubt has to go with Root.
and the 3rd umpire agrees with me, I think that's a good decision.
It hit him in line, it doesn't matter where it pitched.
I am not sure there was enough doubt to over rule the on field decision.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 12:08:59 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 12:10:23 PM
Not sure how this can be out, there looks like a tiny edge and for me it pitched outside off stump. Surely the benefit of the doubt has to go with Root.
and the 3rd umpire agrees with me, I think that's a good decision.
It hit him in line, it doesn't matter where it pitched.
I am not sure there was enough doubt to over rule the on field decision.
I was halfway through that point when the third umpire made his decision, look back I modified to finish it, my point was about the angles because the pad, bat, pad thing the commentators were suggesting didn't make sense based on that.
Post by: Drummond on February 25, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
It's bizarre stuff.
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 12:13:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 12:17:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 12:19:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 12:30:33 PM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 12:32:58 PM
I think we look mentally shot.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 12:35:22 PM
Post by: Monty on February 25, 2021, 12:38:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 12:39:26 PM
Post by: Monty on February 25, 2021, 12:41:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 01:05:23 PM
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 25, 2021, 01:09:54 PM
A 2 day Test is just nuts.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 01:10:07 PM
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 01:11:14 PM
Post by: Monty on February 25, 2021, 01:13:04 PM
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
It's fine having pitches which favour the home team, that's going to happen naturally. People grow up in different climates, climate affects the kind of cricket they'll learn, later on they find themselves better at home conditions than away. But this is preposterous - yeah it favours India, but if a batsman gets 0 it doesn't matter what your bowlers do.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 01:13:43 PM
Post by: Monty on February 25, 2021, 01:16:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 01:18:28 PM
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
I'm fine with pitches favouring the home team but there has to be some balance to it, you have to think that if a batsman plays well he'll get the rewards and be able to post a big score, that's not the case here, it's just a case of scoring as many as possible before you get one with your name on it. Today has been even worse than I thought when I was moaning about it yesterday.
What really bothers me is I hate watching a game where the bat or ball completely dominates, it's just not interesting to watch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 01:25:29 PM
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
It's fine having pitches which favour the home team, that's going to happen naturally. People grow up in different climates, climate affects the kind of cricket they'll learn, later on they find themselves better at home conditions than away. But this is preposterous - yeah it favours India, but if a batsman gets 0 it doesn't matter what your bowlers do.
Of course not, but I am not sure we have been playing very good spin bowling well.
The damage was done in the first innings, and I am not sure it was a 112 all out pitch.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 01:26:47 PM
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
I'm fine with pitches favouring the home team but there has to be some balance to it, you have to think that if a batsman plays well he'll get the rewards and be able to post a big score, that's not the case here, it's just a case of scoring as many as possible before you get one with your name on it. Today has been even worse than I thought when I was moaning about it yesterday.
What really bothers me is I hate watching a game where the bat or ball completely dominates, it's just not interesting to watch.
I get that, and agree with you. What I would say is I am not sure we batted very well, certainly in the first innings.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 01:35:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 01:48:55 PM
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 01:58:23 PM
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
Post by: Monty on February 25, 2021, 02:16:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 02:17:50 PM
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
True, but India were in a similar position and didn't make it either despite being much more accustomed to the conditions. Also in both cases it was largely down to 1 player, as soon as they were out there were no decent partnerships.
That said England came out for this current session looking like they knew the match was gone and now we're not bowling with the same intensity it suddenly it looks a lot easier to score. That's been the bigger difference for me, their bowling has been more disciplined in just hitting the right line and letting the pitch do the work for England there's been too many loose deliveries that have let them score cheap runs. In such a tight game even 5-6 cheap boundaries is game changing.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 02:21:00 PM
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
True, but India were in a similar position and didn't make it either despite being much more accustomed to the conditions. Also in both cases it was largely down to 1 player, as soon as they were out there were no decent partnerships.
That said England came out for this current session looking like they knew the match was gone and now we're not bowling with the same intensity it suddenly it looks a lot easier to score. That's been the bigger difference for me, their bowling has been more disciplined in just hitting the right line and letting the pitch do the work for England there's been too many loose deliveries that have let them score cheap runs. In such a tight game even 5-6 cheap boundaries is game changing.
Well batting is so often about partnerships. I don't think there were too many concerns about the pitch when Crawley was moving his feet and driving nicely to various parts of the ground.
I wonder if the pink ball is actually part of the issue - they were talking about the lacquer and how it can be very skiddy.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 25, 2021, 02:28:41 PM
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 02:31:38 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 02:42:04 PM
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
True, but India were in a similar position and didn't make it either despite being much more accustomed to the conditions. Also in both cases it was largely down to 1 player, as soon as they were out there were no decent partnerships.
That said England came out for this current session looking like they knew the match was gone and now we're not bowling with the same intensity it suddenly it looks a lot easier to score. That's been the bigger difference for me, their bowling has been more disciplined in just hitting the right line and letting the pitch do the work for England there's been too many loose deliveries that have let them score cheap runs. In such a tight game even 5-6 cheap boundaries is game changing.
Well batting is so often about partnerships. I don't think there were too many concerns about the pitch when Crawley was moving his feet and driving nicely to various parts of the ground.
I wonder if the pink ball is actually part of the issue - they were talking about the lacquer and how it can be very skiddy.
I agree the pink ball played a part and the extra lacquer on it probably added to the problems. I think what was happening is some were gripping heavily the dust and getting big turn and losing pace and others were skidding on and coming off the pitch faster than expected. With his flat action that was particularly important for Axar. I'd like to see some side-by-sides of how quickly the straight ones got from the pitch to the stumps compared to the ones that spun, I reckon it'll be a significant change.
All in I think it was a bit of a perfect storm of everything working to make it a bowlers dream.
Post by: Rory on February 25, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2021, 02:55:22 PM
I don't think I've ever seen so few runs scored across all innings of a completed test.
it's the lowest scoring completed test since 1935 apparently.
Post by: aev on February 25, 2021, 02:56:51 PM
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
True, but India were in a similar position and didn't make it either despite being much more accustomed to the conditions. Also in both cases it was largely down to 1 player, as soon as they were out there were no decent partnerships.
That said England came out for this current session looking like they knew the match was gone and now we're not bowling with the same intensity it suddenly it looks a lot easier to score. That's been the bigger difference for me, their bowling has been more disciplined in just hitting the right line and letting the pitch do the work for England there's been too many loose deliveries that have let them score cheap runs. In such a tight game even 5-6 cheap boundaries is game changing.
Well batting is so often about partnerships. I don't think there were too many concerns about the pitch when Crawley was moving his feet and driving nicely to various parts of the ground.
I wonder if the pink ball is actually part of the issue - they were talking about the lacquer and how it can be very skiddy.
I agree the pink ball played a part and the extra lacquer on it probably added to the problems. I think what was happening is some were gripping heavily the dust and getting big turn and losing pace and others were skidding on and coming off the pitch faster than expected. With his flat action that was particularly important for Axar. I'd like to see some side-by-sides of how quickly the straight ones got from the pitch to the stumps compared to the ones that spun, I reckon it'll be a significant change.
All in I think it was a bit of a perfect storm of everything working to make it a bowlers dream.
I don't have an issue with 2 deliveries landing in the same place with one turning and the other going straight on - I think this is (hopefully) bowler skill, and possibly aided by the pink ball.
I do have a problem with variable bounce, and the pitch falling apart. I didn't see much of the former, but a little of the latter (there was certainly more today).
What does really irk me is the marginalisation of the 4 day game here. It is generally the same when we go to the sub continent, and any victories won are in spite of, and not because of a first class system that seems to treat first class cricket so shabbily. I am firmly in the George Dobell / Vic Marks camp. There are 2 rounds of Championship cricket scheduled for July and August. And we wonder why we struggle against spin?
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2021, 05:07:35 PM
The reason it's a two day Test is that the both the pitch and the batting are not good enough. From both sides, but equally both sides have been imprisoned by a terror of a surface.The showcasing of world's newest and biggest capacity cricket stadium was not complemented by the most important element of any such venue, the pitch itself. Having spent enormous millions on the stadium they produced a pith more akin to any neglected maidan in Delhi or Lahore where young lads are found honing their skills in dusty potholes. Not good enough I am afraid.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 25, 2021, 06:20:49 PM
Where do you start with that? A test match that finishes just after tea (or was it dinner) on day two after 30 wickets fell is not a true test match. I’m just about prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt given that the whole square is brand new, but it’s unacceptable to produce a strip where both sides struggle.
As for our struggles against spin, this is nothing new and I think part of the issue is the structure of the first class game in this country. We don’t produce quality spinners and when we have someone with a bit of potential we throw them into the test team and hope they will develop into a match winner. So because we don’t have quality spinners with a full range of deliveries, our batsmen aren’t used to facing that kind of bowler and when we end up playing on the sub continent we struggle.
Red ball county cricket isn’t geared to producing quality spinners; most of the red ball cricket is played in the early season when our conditions are not spin friendly. Then through the warmer summer months the focus is on white ball cricket where a spinner can bowl a maximum of 60 deliveries. What’s left of red ball cricket is then played in September when pitches tend to be dull and lifeless.
It’s not rocket science is it?
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2021, 07:09:39 PM
Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.
Post by: aj2k77 on February 25, 2021, 07:20:13 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 25, 2021, 07:22:56 PM
England were piss poor - repeated unacceptable innings. Also Bairstow - what a selection.t
Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.
Hmmm ....... good luck with that!!
Post by: tomd2103 on February 25, 2021, 07:25:05 PM
England do have an issue against spin. At least 3, probably 4 of the top 6 don’t appear to have a clue.
Left arm spin in particular.
Post by: Gareth on February 25, 2021, 09:25:25 PM
England were piss poor - repeated unacceptable innings. Also Bairstow - what a selection.t
Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.
Hmmm ....... good luck with that!!
And watch the next pitch in the same ground be an absolute road & big scores be got
Post by: Steve67 on February 25, 2021, 10:27:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 26, 2021, 01:10:22 AM
In hindsight, they made a rod for their own backs dropping Bess after the first test, and then the whole mishandling of Moeen going home.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 26, 2021, 07:43:58 AM
As a red ball gets older is loses its lacquer and gets slightly darker. It doesn’t matter if it gets stained by grass etc because in normal light you can still see it. You can’t play a day night test with a pink ball that’s getting dark and dirty under lights, why don’t they use a white ball? It works in ODI cricket at all levels. Or is it a way of differentiating between tests and ODI cricket?
Post by: JD on February 26, 2021, 08:04:36 AM
Post by: simboy on February 26, 2021, 08:38:49 AM
Bess and Leach are products of Somerset’s academy, Bess taking the white rose dollar. Swann and Monty came through the Northamptonshire academy, starting their careers on a Wantage Road track that turned.
Moeen bowled well in the Birmingham Leagues at the age of 16 but was a batsman who could bowl when he reached the England set up, playing at Worcester and Edgbaston. Rashid became a one day bowler, as he was overlooked from about 2011 onwards. He got on pitches in Pakistan which should have suited him but he bowled as he did in England, to contain and it all went wrong.
Good young spinners do exist but get into the county circuit and have to bowl to contain on pitches suited to fast medium wobblers. As a consequence our top order (with the exception of Root) haven’t got a clue when it goes off the straight.
If you can’t bat as a left arm twirler you’re first to be dropped in league cricket, hence the bating is prioritised and the bowling takes a back seat. I read a piece about Warne in the Lancashire leagues as the overseas pro getting lambasted by the locals because he wasn’t taking wickets. He was almost dropped but got a decent couple of runs.
Breaking into the county academies is tough if you’re solely a spinner. Getting into the county team harder and making a reputation harder still. Our batsmen therefore don’t learn against the better bowlers and the national team cannot last 80 overs for 20 wickets.
Post by: aev on February 26, 2021, 08:42:19 AM
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-vs-england-3rd-test-2nd-day-good-test-technique-is-still-built-on-a-solid-defence-1253060
Post by: aev on February 26, 2021, 08:43:17 AM
English batsmen do not play on spinning pitches in county games. The administration encourages pitches to be generally seamer friendly and flat in the county game. Somerset got penalised last season for having a pitch that suited their spinners.
Bess and Leach are products of Somerset’s academy, Bess taking the white rose dollar. Swann and Monty came through the Northamptonshire academy, starting their careers on a Wantage Road track that turned.
Moeen bowled well in the Birmingham Leagues at the age of 16 but was a batsman who could bowl when he reached the England set up, playing at Worcester and Edgbaston. Rashid became a one day bowler, as he was overlooked from about 2011 onwards. He got on pitches in Pakistan which should have suited him but he bowled as he did in England, to contain and it all went wrong.
Good young spinners do exist but get into the county circuit and have to bowl to contain on pitches suited to fast medium wobblers. As a consequence our top order (with the exception of Root) haven’t got a clue when it goes off the straight.
If you can’t bat as a left arm twirler you’re first to be dropped in league cricket, hence the bating is prioritised and the bowling takes a back seat. I read a piece about Warne in the Lancashire leagues as the overseas pro getting lambasted by the locals because he wasn’t taking wickets. He was almost dropped but got a decent couple of runs.
Breaking into the county academies is tough if you’re solely a spinner. Getting into the county team harder and making a reputation harder still. Our batsmen therefore don’t learn against the better bowlers and the national team cannot last 80 overs for 20 wickets.
What hope is there when there are 2 schedules rounds of 4 day cricket for July and August when wickets should be most conducive to spin?
Post by: UK Redsox on February 26, 2021, 09:57:07 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2021, 11:31:18 AM
Post by: aev on February 26, 2021, 12:40:10 PM
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2021, 01:19:54 PM
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
none of that changes anything I wrote. In fact the bold bit backs it up. Even in prime conditions English pitches rarely offer a great deal, look at pretty much every home test series against sub-continent teams and their spinners have less impact. That means English spinners (and Australians and New Zealanders) rely on variations which leads to the exact problem you raise. Someone like Axar Patel, who has been destructive in the last 2 tests only needs very minor alterations to his action because he can trust the pitch to do a lot of the work for him so he is consistent as a result of the pitches he bowls on. That's why I think getting more players on those pitches would benefit us much more than changing the scheduling.
Aside from that the reason for the scheduling is because the one day formats get more fans and the summer months get more fans so it's a commercial requirement to match those up.
Post by: aev on February 26, 2021, 01:32:23 PM
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
none of that changes anything I wrote. In fact the bold bit backs it up. Even in prime conditions English pitches rarely offer a great deal, look at pretty much every home test series against sub-continent teams and their spinners have less impact. That means English spinners (and Australians and New Zealanders) rely on variations which leads to the exact problem you raise. Someone like Axar Patel, who has been destructive in the last 2 tests only needs very minor alterations to his action because he can trust the pitch to do a lot of the work for him so he is consistent as a result of the pitches he bowls on. That's why I think getting more players on those pitches would benefit us much more than changing the scheduling.
Aside from that the reason for the scheduling is because the one day formats get more fans and the summer months get more fans so it's a commercial requirement to match those up.
Why do you think "prime" pitches rarely offer much?
In fact, do you think it is a coincidence that Swann, Panesar and Leach (so 3 out of 4 of our first choice spinners) learnt to bowl at grounds that encouraged spin?
As for getting our spinners to go over and play in the Asian sub continent that isn't going to happen. We could however schedule more than 2 rounds of Championship cricket for July and August though.
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2021, 02:27:25 PM
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
none of that changes anything I wrote. In fact the bold bit backs it up. Even in prime conditions English pitches rarely offer a great deal, look at pretty much every home test series against sub-continent teams and their spinners have less impact. That means English spinners (and Australians and New Zealanders) rely on variations which leads to the exact problem you raise. Someone like Axar Patel, who has been destructive in the last 2 tests only needs very minor alterations to his action because he can trust the pitch to do a lot of the work for him so he is consistent as a result of the pitches he bowls on. That's why I think getting more players on those pitches would benefit us much more than changing the scheduling.
Aside from that the reason for the scheduling is because the one day formats get more fans and the summer months get more fans so it's a commercial requirement to match those up.
Why do you think "prime" pitches rarely offer much?
In fact, do you think it is a coincidence that Swann, Panesar and Leach (so 3 out of 4 of our first choice spinners) learnt to bowl at grounds that encouraged spin?
As for getting our spinners to go over and play in the Asian sub continent that isn't going to happen. We could however schedule more than 2 rounds of Championship cricket for July and August though.
but those players learned to spin despite a structure that you want to change and Leach has been one that has struggled, on this tour, to keep things tight with a consistent line.
Panesar was different and I'd go so far as to suggest he was unique for an English spinner in that he was better in sub-continent conditions than he was at home.
Swann was just world class, and is probably the best English spinner of all time (even if he is a twat), but lets not forget he only got into the team when he was in his late 20s, which is pretty standard for English spinners and has been for a long time.
All of this misses the point though, on a pitch like the last 2 games our batsmen wouldn't be better prepared if we played more 4 day games in July/August and our spinners wouldn't be more willing to bowl line and length because the conditions are still very different.
What your suggesting would improve the number of spinners playing in the county game, which would be great, but it wouldn't make poor displays like we saw less common and it would need to address the commercial issues that would come from it. I prefer the longer format but the games that are played in those months see significantly lower attendances than the t20 and OD games played at the same time, that is the factor driving the scheduling and can't be swept away by a desire to see a few English spinners around.
Post by: aev on February 26, 2021, 02:59:53 PM
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
none of that changes anything I wrote. In fact the bold bit backs it up. Even in prime conditions English pitches rarely offer a great deal, look at pretty much every home test series against sub-continent teams and their spinners have less impact. That means English spinners (and Australians and New Zealanders) rely on variations which leads to the exact problem you raise. Someone like Axar Patel, who has been destructive in the last 2 tests only needs very minor alterations to his action because he can trust the pitch to do a lot of the work for him so he is consistent as a result of the pitches he bowls on. That's why I think getting more players on those pitches would benefit us much more than changing the scheduling.
Aside from that the reason for the scheduling is because the one day formats get more fans and the summer months get more fans so it's a commercial requirement to match those up.
Why do you think "prime" pitches rarely offer much?
In fact, do you think it is a coincidence that Swann, Panesar and Leach (so 3 out of 4 of our first choice spinners) learnt to bowl at grounds that encouraged spin?
As for getting our spinners to go over and play in the Asian sub continent that isn't going to happen. We could however schedule more than 2 rounds of Championship cricket for July and August though.
but those players learned to spin despite a structure that you want to change and Leach has been one that has struggled, on this tour, to keep things tight with a consistent line.
Panesar was different and I'd go so far as to suggest he was unique for an English spinner in that he was better in sub-continent conditions than he was at home.
Swann was just world class, and is probably the best English spinner of all time (even if he is a twat), but lets not forget he only got into the team when he was in his late 20s, which is pretty standard for English spinners and has been for a long time.
All of this misses the point though, on a pitch like the last 2 games our batsmen wouldn't be better prepared if we played more 4 day games in July/August and our spinners wouldn't be more willing to bowl line and length because the conditions are still very different.
What your suggesting would improve the number of spinners playing in the county game, which would be great, but it wouldn't make poor displays like we saw less common and it would need to address the commercial issues that would come from it. I prefer the longer format but the games that are played in those months see significantly lower attendances than the t20 and OD games played at the same time, that is the factor driving the scheduling and can't be swept away by a desire to see a few English spinners around.
There was much more Championship cricket in the summer months than there is now, so the system that produced these spinners isn't the same one that we have now.
Playing on, and experiencing more turning pitches I think would improve the batsmen's skill set. It might have been the difference in getting to 200 in the first innings?
And as for spinners bowling line and length, one of Bess's issues is that the has struggled to land it in the same place, with too many 4 balls. I don't think it is a willingness issue, more an ability to do so at present.
It also is worth remembering that one of the spinners skills is an ability to tie an end and build pressure. You don't have to be turning it square to be useful. As Kohli said, 18 of the spinners wickets were with straight balls (think he was being a little provocative to be honest).
Regarding the OD, t20, Hundred etc I think anyone that follows cricket understands the commercial reasons for the prioritising of it, but quite frankly I would much rather Warwickshire won the County Championship than Birmingham (or whatever our one day name is) winning the T20. I would also much rather watch a summer of Test cricket than some meaningless 50 over games. I think there is room for both formats of the game, but I think that the balance is too far in favour of the shorter game.
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2021, 03:25:02 PM
There was much more Championship cricket in the summer months than there is now, so the system that produced these spinners isn't the same one that we have now.
Playing on, and experiencing more turning pitches I think would improve the batsmen's skill set. It might have been the difference in getting to 200 in the first innings?
And as for spinners bowling line and length, one of Bess's issues is that the has struggled to land it in the same place, with too many 4 balls. I don't think it is a willingness issue, more an ability to do so at present.
It also is worth remembering that one of the spinners skills is an ability to tie an end and build pressure. You don't have to be turning it square to be useful. As Kohli said, 18 of the spinners wickets were with straight balls (think he was being a little provocative to be honest).
Regarding the OD, t20, Hundred etc I think anyone that follows cricket understands the commercial reasons for the prioritising of it, but quite frankly I would much rather Warwickshire won the County Championship than Birmingham (or whatever our one day name is) winning the T20. I would also much rather watch a summer of Test cricket than some meaningless 50 over games. I think there is room for both formats of the game, but I think that the balance is too far in favour of the shorter game.
There was more summer 4day cricket but almost every tour of India in my memory has led to the same questions of what we can do to be better facing spin and how we can produce a world class spinner so I don't see why changing it back would change that.
The Kohli thing about straight balls is highly misleading, that was a quirk of this specific match and something both teams struggled with.
I agree on preferring to see Warwickshire win the championship, as I said I much prefer that format, but if Birmingham Bears/Phoenix have to play during those key months to pay the bills so Warwickshire can compete then so be it.
I don't disagree with your idea I just think the decision was made that being competitive in all 3 formats and maximising revenues for the counties (and the ECB) was considered more important trying to improve conditions for spinners (and very quick seamers) and with us winning the ODI world cup and reaching the final of the t20 world cup the last time they ran it's a tough sell to suggest the choices were wrong.
All that said I think it's best we agree to disagree on this.
Post by: aev on February 26, 2021, 03:40:32 PM
Anyway, another good article by the excellent Andy Bull.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/25/england-two-day-thrashing-third-test-india-inquest
Post by: aj2k77 on February 27, 2021, 12:27:14 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 27, 2021, 12:57:43 PM
Good to see him getting a rest after all those games he's played this winter.....oh....wait
Post by: Gareth on February 27, 2021, 05:19:36 PM
Isn't it quite obvious that India shit themselves after the first test and went overboard and produced two alarmingly spinning wickets to make sure they didn't lose the series.& a road will be incoming for 4th test
Post by: UK Redsox on March 01, 2021, 02:53:44 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56238318
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2021, 07:03:35 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2021, 07:07:55 AM
Post by: aev on March 04, 2021, 07:12:04 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2021, 09:27:08 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2021, 09:41:04 AM
Post by: aj2k77 on March 04, 2021, 09:48:14 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 04, 2021, 06:05:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2021, 06:49:42 PM
Post by: Rory on March 05, 2021, 12:44:54 AM
I’ve been so unimpressed with our top 3 this winter. Whatever version it’s been it’s failed every time. Crawley and Sibley have about 3 reasonable scores between them. That’s not good enough.
I watched the Melbourne test from '10/'11 earlier. Christ, we had a batting lineup back then. Once you got beyond Strauss, Cook & Trott, you still had Bell, KP, Collingwood, Prior.
Not as strong, obviously, but reminiscent of the great Australian side in the sense that you'd take a wicket, celebrate, then see the next batsman in and think 'oh no, not him'. And that would go all the way down to Warne & Lee at 8 & 9.
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2021, 09:26:22 AM
Post by: KevinGage on March 05, 2021, 10:43:00 AM
Plenty of cheerleading and very little insight.
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2021, 11:05:19 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 05, 2021, 11:06:44 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 05, 2021, 11:08:35 AM
Bored of the home Indian commentary, TBH.They are worse than Australians. I find ex Kiwi players are the best commentators and pundits.
Plenty of cheerleading and very little insight.
Post by: Moonraker on March 05, 2021, 11:16:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 05, 2021, 11:17:59 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2021, 11:18:41 AM
Bored of the home Indian commentary, TBH.They are worse than Australians. I find ex Kiwi players are the best commentators and pundits.
Plenty of cheerleading and very little insight.
I agree on the commentary, it's been my biggest issue with this series and is probably why I've found the coverage so much worse than we usually get on sky. I do still think the graphics and overlays are shit though.
Post by: aj2k77 on March 05, 2021, 12:49:12 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 05, 2021, 03:11:52 PM
Bored of the home Indian commentary, TBH.They are worse than Australians. I find ex Kiwi players are the best commentators and pundits.
Plenty of cheerleading and very little insight.
Apart from Danny Morrison, who has me heading straight for the mute button
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 05, 2021, 03:23:41 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 06, 2021, 06:57:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 07:21:17 AM
Post by: manic-road on March 06, 2021, 07:26:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 07:37:23 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on March 06, 2021, 08:08:43 AM
What’s the betting that when we bat we’re about 60 - 5.Not bad - 65-5. Edit. Now 65-6. This is going to end quickly and be very ugly I suspect.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 08:13:21 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 06, 2021, 08:43:32 AM
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 06, 2021, 09:56:19 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 10:08:46 AM
Post by: Monty on March 06, 2021, 10:18:20 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on March 06, 2021, 12:04:28 PM
Side note: I much prefer Talkport's ball by ball coverage to TMS these days. Mark Nicholas is much better when he's not being so sycophantic to Aussies on Channel 9.
Post by: aj2k77 on March 06, 2021, 12:05:38 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 06, 2021, 02:49:30 PM
Bairstow, 2 50's in 28 innings, bye bye.
Bairstow hasn't produced in Test cricket in years, but I will say that having been selected for Sri Lanka, then looking in decent touch, to then send him home for the 1st 2 tests of the India series only to bring him back was a ridiculous decision. Sending Buttler home after the 1st test was also a ridiculous decision.
Post by: Villan For Life on March 06, 2021, 03:29:13 PM
I wasn’t impressed with the appointment of Silverwood in the first place and so far I’ve seen nothing to change that view. Root should continue but Silverwood should be replaced.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 04:06:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 06, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 06, 2021, 05:30:15 PM
There are positives to take, especially from the 1st test, and its pretty clear that our batsmen need to improve their technique against spin dramatically, but they will probably never have to play on pitches like that again in their career, and rarely will face the quality of spinner that Ashwin is, and a spinner so perfectly tailormade for the conditions like Patel.
Moving forward, our seam bowling stock is exceptional, with Anderson, Broad, Stone, Archer, Wood, Curran and Woakes all very high quality across a variety of conditions. I hope we stick with the likes of Pope and Lawrence who are both extremely talented, and allow them to improve. Lack of a quality spinner is a worry.
Post by: olaftab on March 06, 2021, 05:56:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 06, 2021, 09:04:36 PM
The management need to work on balanced team approach. For far too long England test team has tried to rely on bit part players and trying bat deep rather than 5 1 5. 5 batsman 1 outstanding wicket keeper 5 top bowlers. The 5th bowler should be an all rounder. That’s where Stokes started but now he is under far too much pressure being England’s second best batsman and second best bowler. He will only perform at top level when test of the team is stronger. Of course that’s where the problem is. Only Root, Anderson and Foakes are test match standard other than Stokes.
I think that's a bit unfair and ignores a lot of players who have played well over the last couple of years. Archer, Stone, Wood and Buttler have all done a good job more often than not and Sam Curran has been a very useful option as a bowling all rounder, as has Woakes.
As has been the case for a while our issues the top 3 and the spinners. Crawley and Sibley have, for me, done enough to get more time but 3 is a massive problem, Bairstow just isn't good enough. I'd be tempted to give Lawrence a go there for a series and see how he gets on because he's around the squad now and has done enough to deserve it.
Crawley
Sibley
Lawrence
Root
Pope
Stokes
Buttler/Foakes
Curran/Woakes
Leach/Bess
Broad/Archer/Stone
Anderson/Wood
I just wish we had alternatives for more than 5 spots. I've split the bowlers up into where I think they work in the batting but any 3 from that list of seamers should be competitive.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 09:14:23 PM
Post by: Rory on March 06, 2021, 11:29:16 PM
Having said that, I do think this is the best India team I've seen in my lifetime. Not player for player, but the balance is often what has let Indian sides down, and the balance of this side does seem very good.
We have a fair bit of work to do, but well done to India, they absolutely deserve the series. Although I do hope New Zealand beat them. In my opinion, the Kiwis have been the most consistent side in the world, home and away, for the best part of a decade.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 06, 2021, 11:58:56 PM
Post by: Rory on March 07, 2021, 01:03:39 AM
The big difference for India now is they have real depth and quality in their seam attack. That will enable them to compete around the world. If they have Ishant, Bumrah, Siraj, Yadav, and Shami fit and firing this summer they’ll have a seriously dangerous attack, and some selection headaches.
Don't forget Bhuvi Kumar. I have a feeling he'll be particularly dangerous in English conditions.
Post by: UK Redsox on March 07, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
Standing back, Buttler's not going to be much less effective than Foakes and, as a batsman, he's far better at shepherding the tail.
Having said that, I think that Foakes has potential to be an excellent higher order batsman if there was any way of giving him more games.
Hopefully, England won't have him sat around for another summer as a reserve and let him play some four day games for Surrey
Post by: paul_e on March 07, 2021, 03:22:46 PM
Foakes is a better keeper than Buttler, but anywhere other than the sub-continent the difference doesn't matter.
Standing back, Buttler's not going to be much less effective than Foakes and, as a batsman, he's far better at shepherding the tail.
Having said that, I think that Foakes has potential to be an excellent higher order batsman if there was any way of giving him more games.
Hopefully, England won't have him sat around for another summer as a reserve and let him play some four day games for Surrey
That's the real difficulty, I think both are good enough to play every game but can you fit them both in? Would Buttler be happy as a dedicated batsman?
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 12, 2021, 04:51:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 12, 2021, 05:48:19 PM
Blimey we really thumped India today.
We're an exceptional team in the shorter formats, that's been clear for a few years now a number English players have starred in the various t20 leagues regularly and the knock-on effect of that is that we play well in the format in almost all conditions.
Post by: manic-road on March 12, 2021, 07:34:41 PM
Blimey we really thumped India today.
We're an exceptional team in the shorter formats, that's been clear for a few years now a number English players have starred in the various t20 leagues regularly and the knock-on effect of that is that we play well in the format in almost all conditions.
Yep, totally dominated India in all areas of the game, the bowlers were all bang on the right length and the openers practiclly won the game in the first 6 overs.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 12, 2021, 07:55:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 13, 2021, 01:24:26 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 14, 2021, 02:45:59 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 14, 2021, 03:00:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 14, 2021, 03:20:24 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 14, 2021, 03:21:09 PM
There is usually a clear advantage batting 2nd though when the dew comes into affect, so that will go a large way in determing the outcome.
Post by: paul_e on March 14, 2021, 04:03:22 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 14, 2021, 10:25:43 PM
should be a bonus of 6 runs because they weren't in the 20th over by the 75th minute unless they've changed that rule.
They had only bowled 16 overs after 90 minutes (should have at least started the last over by this point). The Umpires have leeway for injuries etc, but their overrate was abysmal. Not sure if rules have changed and the ICC issue fines instead now?
We were ultimately undone by 3 consecutive very poor overs from Jordan, Tom Curran and Stokes, which gave India all the momentum after we had started well with the ball. It was definitely a bit easier to bat 2nd.
Post by: UK Redsox on March 15, 2021, 03:13:26 PM
Also, all players are now deemed equally to blame. The Captain is not singled out.
It's been like this for a year or so, I think
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 15, 2021, 08:59:44 PM
IPL seems to be very focussed on form or past performance in the IPL. Has Roy done much in it before?
Only played 8 matches with an average just under 30. It ridiculous if every team in the IPL think they have 2 better openers than Jason Roy!
Post by: paul_e on March 16, 2021, 02:12:18 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 16, 2021, 04:00:52 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 16, 2021, 04:02:13 PM
Buttler going very well here at the moment.
Post by: paul_e on March 16, 2021, 04:17:10 PM
and that's 50 (from 26) for Buttler, the best bit of that being that he isn't slogging, it's just well timed and placed with quick hands.
Post by: paul_e on March 16, 2021, 04:19:49 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 16, 2021, 04:19:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 16, 2021, 04:22:20 PM
You've done for Malan there Paul!!!
I know, shocking case of the mockers but he was just starting to look comfortable, good delivery to him though.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 16, 2021, 04:23:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 16, 2021, 04:43:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 16, 2021, 05:07:00 PM
I think the pitch/toss had some impact but the key was the powerplay, we handled it far better than them because we were trying to score off everything whereas they were quite defensive for the first 2-3 overs. Once you're ahead of the rate the pressure is all on the bowlers and this surface isn't one where you can cope with that for long stretches.
Post by: paul_e on March 18, 2021, 01:56:12 PM
Odd thing I've noticed is that the Indian team definitely have a 'look' lots of very similar beards in this team.
Post by: Gareth on March 18, 2021, 02:06:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 18, 2021, 02:20:05 PM
70-3 after 9
For context the thinking is that 170-180 is par on this pitch so they need a big second half to the innings.
Post by: paul_e on March 18, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Wood has been excellent though, bowling with threat and looking really hard to get away, glad he's got a wicket there, well deserved.
Post by: paul_e on March 18, 2021, 06:02:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 20, 2021, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 21, 2021, 11:47:37 AM
Not a great day for England so far but it has included an absolute belter of a catch - https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12251601/jordan-creates-remarkable-catch
Love the look on Roy's face as he takes the flip from Jordan
Post by: paul_e on March 21, 2021, 12:23:37 PM
Not a great day for England so far but it has included an absolute belter of a catch - https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12251601/jordan-creates-remarkable-catch
Love the look on Roy's face as he takes the flip from Jordan
Yeah that's my favourite part of it as well.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 22, 2021, 05:00:33 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 22, 2021, 09:08:41 AM
Need Jof to hopefully get this elbow injury properly sorted. He’s absolutely key to the Twenty20 World Cup and the Ashes.
To use a baseball term, I keep expecting to hear the words "Tommy John surgery"
Post by: manic-road on March 23, 2021, 12:52:01 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 23, 2021, 02:45:28 PM
England were doing ok for the first 40 overs, poor from Wood who was very expensive when bowling at the death. India managed to put on over 100 runs in the last ten overs.
That's because we don't seem to take enough wickets at key times, it was a problem in the t20 series as well.
In reply we looked good until Bairstow went and now we've completely fallen apart.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 23, 2021, 02:47:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 23, 2021, 02:53:25 PM
We just can’t deal with Thakur.
What I find frustrating with him is the amount of umpires call decisions he gets in his favour, he's had far more LBWs that are clipping leg than anyone I can remember seeing before.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 23, 2021, 03:44:12 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 23, 2021, 03:58:08 PM
Post by: TheTimVilla on March 23, 2021, 04:30:10 PM
Post by: Richard on March 24, 2021, 04:02:29 PM
We may as well tell the boys to come home now. Utter rubbish! A terribly balanced side, with no batting depth and no guts bowling at the death.
Root, Woakes and Archer should help. The latter is injured while the first two are twiddling their thumbs back home !
Post by: UK Redsox on March 24, 2021, 04:40:40 PM
Morgan wouldn't make my full strength white ball XI
Post by: paul_e on March 24, 2021, 05:27:28 PM
The real problem is that Morgan generally starts a season slowly and gets better as he spends time in the middle but the fragmented nature of the last year hasn't given him the time he needs. I think Roy is suffering in a similar way.
I disagree on the batting depth though, the batting averages of the team from yesterday are solid right the way down to Wood (Sam Curran is a slight anomaly because his ODI record is rubbish compared to his batting in every other format but it's only based on a handful of innings) so the depth should've been fine the issue was losing 3 wickets in a couple of overs just as we needed to just bat sensibly and get home, for 20ish overs we were well on top and looked like we'd make it comfortably but those wickets changed the game.
Bowling was the bigger issue for me, we weren't threatening in the first 25-30 overs which meant that even though they started losing wickets they had a good platform to go into the last 10 with a t20 mindset of scoring off everything. There were just too many overs where they knocked it around for 3-4 without ever having to work for anything and we were content to let them do it so long as they rate wasn't too high.
The Currans were at the heart of it, neither of them looked like taking a wicket but they both completed their 10 overs and neither got smashed around so their averages look ok on paper. I like Sam as a player (I'm not a fan of Tom) but he needs to be much better than that and probably isn't a good choice for these conditions. I think I'd rest one of them and bring Topley in for the next match.
Post by: UK Redsox on March 25, 2021, 05:17:18 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56526058
Unfortunately, the best bloke to replace him is currently in Yorkshire
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 25, 2021, 05:38:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2021, 09:36:19 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2021, 10:11:18 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2021, 11:32:13 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 26, 2021, 02:19:58 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 26, 2021, 02:56:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2021, 03:01:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2021, 03:10:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2021, 03:12:05 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 26, 2021, 03:29:01 PM
That was an incredible knock from Stokes.
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2021, 03:35:26 PM
On the wickets:
Stokes was unlucky, as the commentator said he played it like someone on 99 rather than how he'd been playing for the 20-30 minutes up to that.
Bairstow gets loads of credit for a great knock but it was a strange shot to play with a new batsman at the other end.
Buttler was just a brilliant delivery to someone on his 3rd ball, can't really fault him for getting done by that.
Livingstone is looking good so far, glad he's had a chance for some time in the middle, even if it took a bit of a collapse to happen.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2021, 09:36:06 PM
Post by: Rory on March 26, 2021, 11:18:31 PM
Post by: TonyD on March 26, 2021, 11:42:20 PM
Post by: TonyD on March 26, 2021, 11:43:41 PM
The Ashes please.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 27, 2021, 05:03:26 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 28, 2021, 09:43:24 AM
Post by: manic-road on March 28, 2021, 01:35:56 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 28, 2021, 01:48:07 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 28, 2021, 05:57:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 28, 2021, 05:58:15 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on April 16, 2021, 04:38:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 19, 2021, 11:08:17 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 19, 2021, 11:37:36 PM
Moeen is hitting some really fine form in the IPL.Not a great shock, seems CSK are giving him some consistency batting at 3 and using his bowling as required...England would have picked him, batted him in 3/4 different places and dropped him by now.
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 20, 2021, 11:05:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 21, 2021, 07:01:48 AM
The coach should have ultimate responsibility for selection and this aligns cricket with other sports. Whether a player with a technical flaw in his batting will seek advice from the head coach knowing that he decides whether to pick him or not?
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 24, 2021, 10:42:06 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 24, 2021, 10:53:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 24, 2021, 11:50:58 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on April 25, 2021, 01:19:41 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 25, 2021, 07:13:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 26, 2021, 12:16:38 AM
Post by: Rory on April 26, 2021, 12:22:03 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on April 26, 2021, 01:08:50 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 26, 2021, 02:37:57 PM
I understand that his father thought that he knew better than the Lancashire coaches so he was getting conflicting advice and his game suffered.
It’s interesting that because it’s taken a bit of time but he appears to be returning to a good level at Notts. I wonder if there was something in the coaching at Lancs.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 16, 2021, 11:12:08 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 17, 2021, 10:14:01 AM
Jof’s elbow is becoming a real worry. He’s missing a lot of cricket because of it.
As I posted back in March, I'm expecting to hear the words 'Tommy John Surgery' soon.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 18, 2021, 03:05:51 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/57156635
Squad: Joe Root (Yorkshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), James Bracey (Gloucestershire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Foakes (Surrey), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Craig Overton (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire), Olly Stone (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham
Post by: UK Redsox on May 20, 2021, 03:05:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 20, 2021, 09:38:20 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on May 26, 2021, 11:39:47 AM
Another step closer to normality. And at 72% capacity augurs well for a return to Villa Park with full crowds in August assuming all goes well.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 26, 2021, 01:04:52 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/26/ben-foakes-slip-in-dressing-room-lets-sam-billings-and-haseeb-hameed-into-england-cricket-test-squad
Bracey to keep wicket
Post by: Steve67 on May 26, 2021, 07:21:28 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 26, 2021, 09:00:07 PM
Is Sam Billings back up wicket-keeper? No Bairstow?
Most of the IPL guys are rested.
Gutted for Foakes.
Post by: Lsvilla on May 26, 2021, 09:03:36 PM
Is Sam Billings back up wicket-keeper? No Bairstow?Guessing Bracey will keep. He’s highly regarded.
Most of the IPL guys are rested.
Gutted for Foakes.
Post by: Richard on May 27, 2021, 10:29:22 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 28, 2021, 09:28:32 AM
This resting the IPL players is nonsense especially for Woakes who I believe has played in about 4 20/20 games and nothing else since September.
Yep, it should have been on a case by case basis.
I can't see any reason why Woakes shouldn't play in the NZ games
Post by: Villan For Life on May 28, 2021, 08:25:39 PM
This resting the IPL players is nonsense especially for Woakes who I believe has played in about 4 20/20 games and nothing else since September.
Yep, it should have been on a case by case basis.
I can't see any reason why Woakes shouldn't play in the NZ games
I’d not pick him, he won’t be anywhere near match-sharp.
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 29, 2021, 01:25:12 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 29, 2021, 02:19:54 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2021, 10:48:01 AM
Frustrating, but understandable
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2021, 10:48:27 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2021, 10:50:42 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2021, 12:09:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2021, 12:37:12 PM
Simon Mann saying that due to bubbles, quarantine etc, it was thought that Woakes would not be match fit for a five day game
Frustrating, but understandable
Something that is largely Englands fault. Took him to Sri Lanka and India to carry drinks for most of the winter meaning he's played 3 IPL games as his only cricket for 9 months since the Australia ODI series finished. The IPL delays haven't helped of course.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2021, 01:44:18 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 02, 2021, 07:14:05 PM
Early wickets are needed tomorrow otherwise we could be battted out of the test by tea.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2021, 07:36:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2021, 08:32:31 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2021, 09:32:15 PM
Robinson is going to be in a spot of bother over these historic tweets.
I don’t care if the tweets were years ago when he was 18 or so, he should be dropped from the squad
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2021, 09:34:40 PM
Robinson is going to be in a spot of bother over these historic tweets.
I don’t care if the tweets were years ago when he was 18 or so, he should be dropped from the squad
Yep, agreed.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2021, 09:38:13 PM
https://wisden.com/series-stories/england-v-new-zealand/craig-overton-ive-realised-that-you-cant-go-around-doing-what-i-was-doing-then
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2021, 09:53:53 PM
After what then happened, it’s possible that the joke will turn out to be correct.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2021, 10:05:14 PM
Trouble is that the likely replacement has form as well
https://wisden.com/series-stories/england-v-new-zealand/craig-overton-ive-realised-that-you-cant-go-around-doing-what-i-was-doing-then
Oh yes I remember those things.
Bit that really bothers me is when being 18/19 is somehow a mitigation, for racism? Give me a break.
Post by: paul_e on June 02, 2021, 10:24:26 PM
Trouble is that the likely replacement has form as well
https://wisden.com/series-stories/england-v-new-zealand/craig-overton-ive-realised-that-you-cant-go-around-doing-what-i-was-doing-then
Oh yes I remember those things.
Bit that really bothers me is when being 18/19 is somehow a mitigation, for racism? Give me a break.
Particularly racism on a platform that will store it 'forever'.
I suspect most people did things as a teenager that they look back at with shame (more generally, not specifically racism) but that so many people choose to do those things on twitter/facebook/instagram and just leave it out there and then act like a victim when it's pointed out is really worrying.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2021, 11:05:38 PM
I struggle to see how trust can be built and they can move past this, but we shall see.
I’m staggered the ECB don’t check into this sort of stuff too.
Post by: OzVilla on June 03, 2021, 10:40:17 AM
Kiwis have been good for a while. Good balance and bat deep. Hope Ollie has a better day, he must feel like crap.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2021, 11:47:11 AM
Bumble looks like Fred Dibnah this morning.
Kiwis have been good for a while. Good balance and bat deep. Hope Ollie has a better day, he must feel like crap.
Not sure I have a great deal of sympathy. He should feel bad about what he did.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2021, 03:13:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2021, 03:44:45 PM
Sibley will be coming under some pressure pretty soon.
Did you hear the stat from Zaltz?.....over the winter, England's average start was 26.2 for 2
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2021, 03:48:03 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 03, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
Sibley will be coming under some pressure pretty soon.
Not sure Hawkeye got that right as the ball seemed to be doing a bit more than the trajectory it showed. Crawley's dismissal was really poor though.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2021, 04:22:44 PM
Worrying :(
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2021, 04:36:10 PM
"Schrodinger's duck" :)
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2021, 11:00:46 AM
Looking doubtful for any play before tea
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2021, 05:02:46 PM
98 overs on Sat & Sun. Based on over rates on days one and two, good luck with that
Post by: charlatan on June 04, 2021, 08:52:29 PM
And I think when it comes to racism it steps beyond the line of being a bit naive in your youth. I just don’t buy that people think racism is a bit of a laugh in their late teens. They will definitely understand what it means and how disgraceful it is. It’s going to take a lot to prove he’s a changed man and not the ignorant twat he was 7 years ago.
I struggle to see how trust can be built and they can move past this, but we shall see.
I’m staggered the ECB don’t check into this sort of stuff too.
What would and what should they have done if they had checked this out in advance and found it?
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2021, 09:02:17 PM
Either way knowing in advance means you avoid a horrible clash with the launch of an inclusivity drive.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2021, 09:17:57 PM
I don’t believe that I’m that sort of character. We’ve had Azhar Ali in our changing room and I’m the first one to go up and speak to him in the changing room and have a chat with him. I’m not that sort of person. Sometimes in the heat of the moment, when I was younger, I could be a bit feisty, and I’ve definitely calmed down as a person from then.”
Hopefully that’s just terrible phraseology, but blimey.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 05, 2021, 12:23:43 AM
Play abandoned for the day without a ball being bowled
98 overs on Sat & Sun. Based on over rates on days one and two, good luck with that
Real shame, as the game was intriguingly poised at the close of play yesterday evening.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2021, 11:01:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2021, 12:01:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2021, 12:05:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2021, 12:07:55 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 05, 2021, 01:27:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2021, 02:01:02 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 05, 2021, 10:29:01 PM
Pope frustrates me. He’s clearly really talented but it’s not really clicking. He’s scored one good hundred and got a couple of other scores, but he’s had a fair bit of opportunity now and he needs to start delivering more.
Same for Sibley and Crawley too. They are really going to have to mentally toughen up for Australia later in the year. We really do have too many holes in the batting line up at the moment. We need Archer and Stone in for Broad and Jimmy, they can't go on forever.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2021, 10:44:26 PM
Crawley needs to stop being so loose at the start of his innings. He’s a really talented stroke maker, but he’s not giving himself a chance.
Post by: Rory on June 06, 2021, 12:31:44 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on June 06, 2021, 01:12:23 AM
Try building an innings; that might work.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 06, 2021, 10:07:43 AM
Crawley and Pope are highly talented batsmen who currently lack something called nous.
Try building an innings; that might work.
Crawley's 267 proved that he can do this.
I know that Pope does have a Test hundred, but I'm still not convinced.
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2021, 10:17:20 AM
Ah opinions. I think Pope is a much better long term prospect than Crawley however there is very little choice at 1,2,and 3 at the moment so England have to persevere with Crawley. On the other hand I think (our Dom) Sibley is on last chance saloon. So far 32 test matches for 877 runs at an average of 29 is simply not the best.Crawley and Pope are highly talented batsmen who currently lack something called nous.
Try building an innings; that might work.
Crawley's 267 proved that he can do this.
I know that Pope does have a Test hundred, but I'm still not convinced.
Post by: Rory on June 06, 2021, 01:38:41 PM
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
Post by: LeeB on June 06, 2021, 02:24:12 PM
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Post by: Rory on June 06, 2021, 02:47:07 PM
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Definitely. I said before that final and still feel that if scores are level after 50 overs, the side who took most wickets should win. Just my view.
But you're absolutely right, there was no bitching or moaning, they were true gentlemen.
In a way, it's a shame it had to be against NZ - winning in that way against Australia would've been much sweeter.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 06, 2021, 03:09:55 PM
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Definitely. I said before that final and still feel that if scores are level after 50 overs, the side who took most wickets should win. Just my view.
But you're absolutely right, there was no bitching or moaning, they were true gentlemen.
In a way, it's a shame it had to be against NZ - winning in that way against Australia would've been much sweeter.
I get that point of view, but i've always felt its a false comparison given the different pressures in setting a target and chasing one.
Post by: Rory on June 06, 2021, 03:20:08 PM
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Definitely. I said before that final and still feel that if scores are level after 50 overs, the side who took most wickets should win. Just my view.
But you're absolutely right, there was no bitching or moaning, they were true gentlemen.
In a way, it's a shame it had to be against NZ - winning in that way against Australia would've been much sweeter.
I get that point of view, but i've always felt its a false comparison given the different pressures in setting a target and chasing one.
No, I understand why they do it the way they do. But I'm a bowler, so naturally I think batsmen get far too much credit in the white ball game 😉
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2021, 04:15:23 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 06, 2021, 04:29:49 PM
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Definitely. I said before that final and still feel that if scores are level after 50 overs, the side who took most wickets should win. Just my view.
But you're absolutely right, there was no bitching or moaning, they were true gentlemen.
In a way, it's a shame it had to be against NZ - winning in that way against Australia would've been much sweeter.
The fairest method would have been to award the game to whichever team finished higher in the group stage, as they do in the semis. That would have been England. Any method involving boundaries or wickets is potentially unfair if the team batting second have a reduced number of overs.
Post by: Rory on June 06, 2021, 07:58:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2021, 10:30:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 06, 2021, 10:37:47 PM
Post by: Rory on June 06, 2021, 11:11:26 PM
Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
Post by: olaftab on June 07, 2021, 10:14:42 AM
I don't agree with this decision. He was 18/19 at the time and we all do lot of stupid things at that age but most of us come to completely regret those actions. Robinson is the same. This is show trial and the sort of decision that causes unnecessary resentment. I can see it that it sends a message to other youngsters that you would be punished but, there, awareness through education is a better method.Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2021, 10:16:55 AM
Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
Some generally sexist remarks and also some racist remarks referencing Muslims and bombs I think.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2021, 11:36:25 AM
I don't agree with this decision. He was 18/19 at the time and we all do lot of stupid things at that age but most of us come to completely regret those actions. Robinson is the same. This is show trial and the sort of decision that causes unnecessary resentment. I can see it that it sends a message to other youngsters that you would be punished but, there, awareness through education is a better method.Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
If he regretted the Tweets, he could have deleted them and posted an apology years ago
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on June 07, 2021, 11:59:08 AM
Post by: hipkiss92 on June 07, 2021, 12:00:27 PM
I don't agree with this decision. He was 18/19 at the time and we all do lot of stupid things at that age but most of us come to completely regret those actions. Robinson is the same. This is show trial and the sort of decision that causes unnecessary resentment. I can see it that it sends a message to other youngsters that you would be punished but, there, awareness through education is a better method.Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
Not unreasonable that he shouldn't be playing international cricket while the investigation is ongoing. Part of which is just to confirm whether he was contracted to a county at time, which determines what body sets the disciplinary action.
All came out on the morning England and NZ made a specific unity message as well.
There is a lot to be said for the ECB having not done their due diligence on the player beforehand however.
Post by: paul_e on June 07, 2021, 02:35:30 PM
Yes he was a teenager but that can't be an excuse for what were a series of horrible tweets that were offensive across a whole range of issues. As soon as they came to light the ECB had no choice but to suspend him, anything less would've shown that the unity message was nothing but empty words.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 07, 2021, 02:58:03 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 07, 2021, 02:59:01 PM
I can't agree with the idea that this decision was over the top, etc. We're in a summer of sport where racial inequality is front and centre and this came to light at almost the same time as the England squad presenting a unity message.
Yes he was a teenager but that can't be an excuse for what were a series of horrible tweets that were offensive across a whole range of issues. As soon as they came to light the ECB had no choice but to suspend him, anything less would've shown that the unity message was nothing but empty words.
This ****** disagrees, doesn't fit in with the war he and his mates are fighting I guess:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/sports-minister-oliver-dowden-says-ecb-over-the-top-to-suspend-ollie-robinson-england-cricket (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/sports-minister-oliver-dowden-says-ecb-over-the-top-to-suspend-ollie-robinson-england-cricket)
Post by: paul_e on June 07, 2021, 03:16:10 PM
I can't agree with the idea that this decision was over the top, etc. We're in a summer of sport where racial inequality is front and centre and this came to light at almost the same time as the England squad presenting a unity message.
Yes he was a teenager but that can't be an excuse for what were a series of horrible tweets that were offensive across a whole range of issues. As soon as they came to light the ECB had no choice but to suspend him, anything less would've shown that the unity message was nothing but empty words.
This ****** disagrees, doesn't fit in with the war he and his mates are fighting I guess:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/sports-minister-oliver-dowden-says-ecb-over-the-top-to-suspend-ollie-robinson-england-cricket (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/sports-minister-oliver-dowden-says-ecb-over-the-top-to-suspend-ollie-robinson-england-cricket)
Of course he does, and Johnson has agreed with him.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2021, 03:26:37 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 07, 2021, 06:13:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2021, 08:36:16 PM
David Gower has piped up that Robinson should be used as an ambassador/exemplar to help others navigate social media, subsequently not having to bother with all that stopping being a racist misogynist instead.
Yes somewhat missing the point. Rather like Hulk Hogan when he was videoed using a racial slur and then failed to apologise, instead warning of the pitfalls of talking when being taped. His career has died as a result.
In Robinson’s case, assuming there are no more skeletons in the closet and he his genuinely contrite then he should go through some fairly lengthy education and demonstrate he’s learned from his past mistakes.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on June 07, 2021, 09:19:16 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 07, 2021, 09:21:11 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 07, 2021, 09:50:45 PM
I've just seen Michael Carberry expressing his views. He did all but call PM Johnson a racist. He is not happy.
To the fair, this is the same Prime Minister who called ladies wearing burkha's 'letterboxes'. Carberry is right, where is this education?
Post by: paul_e on June 07, 2021, 09:54:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2021, 10:43:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2021, 10:50:10 PM
Fair play to Carberry, I agree with him completely. Dowden and Johnson know that playing to the twats that boo taking the knee or post 'all lives matter' on facebook reinforces large parts of the new voter base.
Yup it’s pretty shameful. Also I’m not sure what option there is other to suspend whilst it’s investigated. They should be doing better due diligence in advance of selection, but given that fell short this seems an appropriate step.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2021, 10:57:23 PM
Post by: sid1964 on June 09, 2021, 10:33:21 AM
The interviewer then pointed out that Anderson had sent out a message on social media 10 years ago that he ought to be ashamed of , Anderson said well it was 10 years ago (he would have been in his late 20s at that time) - personally he should never play for England again any caps that he has won should be taken off him and all his wicket records etc.. should be deleted from the record books - you cannot have different rules for different players
I would imagine every sportsman is now checking all their tweets!
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 09, 2021, 10:46:33 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 09, 2021, 02:58:27 PM
The Anderson one was poorly worded but fundamentally he was taking the piss out a teammate for having a dodgy haircut. His wording was poor and I can understand why people think it was inappropriate but it's low on the scale of offence.
Robinson made a bunch of tweets that, individually, are worse and collectively make him look like he was intentionally being offensive to random groups 'for a laugh'.
Morgan, Buttler and McCullum I honestly don't know what I think. On here we've seen people comment on how fans from Tanzania, Egypt, etc are all a bit over the top when they comment on posts by some of our players and I wouldn't classify any of that as offensive. I don't se what they tweeted as being massively different to that, a bit silly but I'd say is was mimicking something they're not used to rather than mocking it, it's a fine line though.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 09, 2021, 09:38:06 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 10, 2021, 01:33:24 AM
Having reflected on all this I think the ECB’s action is correct and I also think that whoever the player is they should be afforded a second chance - provided they are genuinely remorseful and their subsequent actions prove they have become better people. That doesn’t mean being a teenager is an excuse, it isn’t, but I have to believe people can change and want to change - the alternative is very grim.
Personally think the suspension was a little harsh given the of historical nature of the messages and that a full and sincere apology may have sufficed. Would have been fully justified if the messages were more recent, but understand that the ECB had no real choice given the campaign they had launched just that day.
Post by: paul_e on June 10, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
What did Morgan, Buttler and McCullum say?
Things like "Sir, you bat with much beauty". There's a few of them but they all follow the same example of saying sir and using slightly odd phrasing, mostly to congratulate each other on a good performance.
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on June 10, 2021, 12:12:16 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 10, 2021, 01:55:51 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 10, 2021, 02:06:47 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2021, 02:32:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2021, 02:52:48 PM
Should be banned from entering the ground
Post by: Rory on June 10, 2021, 02:59:48 PM
I have not missed the oh so funny 'barmy army' chants.
Singing something about Ollie Robinson, if I heard correctly?
Post by: Lsvilla on June 10, 2021, 03:04:43 PM
If everyone in the crowd has been jabbed and tested and can prove it, why is it still 70% capacity, max?Not jabbed. Just tested in the previous 24 hours
Post by: Nev on June 10, 2021, 03:41:35 PM
I have not missed the oh so funny 'barmy army' chants.
Singing something about Ollie Robinson, if I heard correctly?
That'd be right, I went in the Tally Ho after a test a few years ago and it was a bit "funny" but not in a good way. Lot's of rather obscure songs, I couldn't make out the lyrics but something wasn't right.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2021, 04:10:45 PM
Post by: Holte132 on June 10, 2021, 04:11:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2021, 04:19:11 PM
Post by: Rory on June 10, 2021, 04:33:50 PM
I have not missed the oh so funny 'barmy army' chants.
Singing something about Ollie Robinson, if I heard correctly?
That'd be right, I went in the Tally Ho after a test a few years ago and it was a bit "funny" but not in a good way. Lot's of rather obscure songs, I couldn't make out the lyrics but something wasn't right.
They've spent the past 20 minutes singing Football's Coming Home, God Save the Queen & Swing Low Sweet Chariot, so I'm satisfied that they're generic English dickheads, rather than cricket fans.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2021, 04:33:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2021, 04:42:33 PM
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
Same as Gooch ;)
Post by: Rory on June 10, 2021, 04:48:15 PM
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
He doesn't look ready, I don't think. Looks very fragile.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2021, 04:48:48 PM
Quote
Making his Test debut in November 1990 just after his 20th birthday, Atapattu's first six innings yielded five ducks and a 1, and he was the first Sri Lankan batsman to be dismissed for a pair on debut. After this difficult start in his first three matches, he did not score above 29 in his next 11 innings, before hitting his first Test century in his 10th match, against India, seven years after his debut. He has 22 Test-match career ducks and four pairs (two ducks in a single Test), both records for a top-order batsman.
Finished with 16 Test centuries, including 6 doubles
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2021, 07:15:39 PM
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
He doesn't look ready, I don't think. Looks very fragile.
Also it’s another case of dropping a player in in a role that differs from the one he was selected for. Now I’m not saying he would have fared better opening, but I do think putting a player in an unfamiliar role, or at least not the one that got him selected, doesn’t help a new player.
Post by: Rory on June 10, 2021, 09:19:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 10, 2021, 10:29:41 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 10, 2021, 11:55:12 PM
Appreciate Stokes and Buttler aren’t there, but our batting looks pretty fragile at the moment.
Problem area of 1-3 persists Paul, though Burns has started the series well. One-by-one, Strauss, Trott and Cook departed and haven't been replaced by players of the same quality.
Adding Stokes and Buttler to the 5-7 positions along with one other will strengthen the middle order, but we need that solid foundation from the top three.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 04:38:09 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 11, 2021, 09:35:47 AM
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
He doesn't look ready, I don't think. Looks very fragile.
Also it’s another case of dropping a player in in a role that differs from the one he was selected for. Now I’m not saying he would have fared better opening, but I do think putting a player in an unfamiliar role, or at least not the one that got him selected, doesn’t help a new player.
It's disappointing for Bracey. A decent couple of innings could have seen him stay in the Test team at the expense of one of the top three (probably Crawley on current form) when Buttler returns.
Hopefully he can return to Glos and play well for the rest of the summer.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 10:55:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 11:10:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 11:45:23 AM
Post by: Rory on June 11, 2021, 02:15:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 06:08:58 PM
I won’t count Lawrence in this, because he hasn’t played enough. But Sibley, Crawley, Burns, and Pope have all played a good number of Tests now. The least is Crawley with 13 and they all average about 30. There’s no great mystery as to why we’re struggling when 4 of your top 6 over a period of time average 30 odd.
Obviously Burns is in good nick at the moment and the others are young, but bloody hell the returns need to start appearing fast.
Post by: Rory on June 11, 2021, 06:25:39 PM
New Zealand are putting our batting performance into sharp focus. Again I know Stokes and Buttler aren’t there, but we look bloody ordinary with the bat.
I won’t count Lawrence in this, because he hasn’t played enough. But Sibley, Crawley, Burns, and Pope have all played a good number of Tests now. The least is Crawley with 13 and they all average about 30. There’s no great mystery as to why we’re struggling when 4 of your top 6 over a period of time average 30 odd.
Obviously Burns is in good nick at the moment and the others are young, but bloody hell the returns need to start appearing fast.
Agreed again. They showed the whole XI's stats earlier and, Root aside, it was shocking.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 06:27:30 PM
Post by: Rory on June 11, 2021, 06:31:03 PM
Also not picking a spinner doesn’t work.
As that delivery from Lawrence shows. Nice bit of turn for a second day pitch.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 11, 2021, 06:49:04 PM
I’d stick with this line up with added Stokes, Buttler, Moeen and Bairstow to select from for the rest of this year including the Ashes. Chopping and changing the line up doesn’t help.
Post by: Villafirst on June 11, 2021, 08:24:22 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 11, 2021, 08:55:57 PM
Regulation catch dropped by Root hasn't helped at all, plus that 'catch' by Broad should've stood; how dumb that technology didn’t intervene.I might be late to this conversation but if you mean the catch by Crawley off Broad my view from the ground and as an ex-player (albeit of modest standard) was that it was a clean catch and should have been given. That said - as soon as it’s referred and viewed on a 2D image it’s never going to be given. The only comfort is the old adage that there are enough of these to even themselves out.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 11, 2021, 09:32:15 PM
Watching the replays, I’m not definite, but still think that it did hit the ground.
They need to do away with the soft signal and just allow the third IMO to make a yes/no decision.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 10:23:51 PM
I agree with the comments about the batsmen but part of me wonders who we replace them with?
I’d stick with this line up with added Stokes, Buttler, Moeen and Bairstow to select from for the rest of this year including the Ashes. Chopping and changing the line up doesn’t help.
I think it’s tricky, but at the moment the performance is way below par. I get the blooding of young players, but there’s a risk that you look too much towards the future, fail in the present and that future never materialises. Crawley has talent, but I think he needs a break. Pope is very talented, but he needs to learn to gut out runs in tricky situations.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2021, 10:48:53 PM
Post by: JD on June 12, 2021, 08:30:16 AM
But putting aside our shortfalls how bloody brilliant are New Zealand? 6 changes, including arguably their finest ever batsman, and still massively impressive. The depth they’ve developed from a fairly small pool is remarkable and the quality in the team is excellent.
NZ are a mighty fine team now and have the best ever pool of players they have ever had, who are all adaptable to different forms of the game. Kudos to their coaching teams.
I regularly go to see them in warm up games when the national squads get together as their International center is based here in Lincoln. The women's team are currently here.
Post by: Villafirst on June 12, 2021, 11:52:56 AM
Post by: Rory on June 12, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Also, this wicketkeeper Bracey looks poor.
Sorry to say, but if this were football, he'd be subbed off. Really struggling.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 12:05:39 PM
Another dropped catch, albeit difficult. Also, this wicketkeeper Bracey looks poor.
Well that’s just it he’s not a bloody wicketkeeper. He does keep wicket a bit, but there’s a difference. It’s a poor and damaging selection for him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 12:07:03 PM
Post by: Rory on June 12, 2021, 12:09:38 PM
Another dropped catch, albeit difficult. Also, this wicketkeeper Bracey looks poor.
Well that’s just it he’s not a bloody wicketkeeper. He does keep wicket a bit, but there’s a difference. It’s a poor and damaging selection for him.
Took that one well. If he'd put that down, you'd really begin to worry about the psychological damage.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 12, 2021, 12:12:18 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 12, 2021, 12:15:19 PM
Post by: Holte132 on June 12, 2021, 12:27:34 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 12, 2021, 02:25:49 PM
Bracey is useless! Poor Olly Stone, he should have 3 wickets now. England's catching has been awful.
Ben Cox would have been a far better option. Really disappointed with Bracey. Stone and Wood, with Archer, the way forward.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 03:39:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 04:20:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 04:52:13 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 12, 2021, 04:57:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 05:00:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 05:02:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 05:17:31 PM
Post by: Rory on June 12, 2021, 05:25:14 PM
Blimey, I nip out for an hour and we slip to 59 for 5. Utter shite. Time to review some of these players if we ever want to get to number one in the world. I fear for us against the Aussies if we play like this.
Same, I left the house for my Covid vaccine at 2pm, NZ were about 45 ahead and 7 down. I get back and we're 71-6.
How many times do we have to read the word 'collapse' associated with the England cricket team?! As my friend just said, it isn't even news anymore - a non-collapse is more noteworthy.
Post by: Steve67 on June 12, 2021, 05:47:39 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 12, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on June 12, 2021, 06:27:19 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 12, 2021, 06:37:08 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 12, 2021, 08:11:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 09:39:22 PM
Bracey I think is going to be a good player, but management have made it really hard for him by picking him out of position and making him keep. I’d say it’s probably put him back a year.
Pope’s a real concern, because with that talent and technique it must be a mindset issue that’s hindering him. Crawley needs a break and again to work on his mentality. Sibley lacks scoring shots, which means he rarely goes anywhere. Lawrence is talented, but can be wasteful.
Ultimately they need to give a better focus to Test cricket and stop messing about with it.
Post by: olaftab on June 12, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 12, 2021, 10:14:34 PM
What a terrible day! I was there yesterday and had some ambitious thoughts about turning up on Monday to see it finished. Thanks England. >:(
Ambitious thoughts after buying day 4 tickets. Hoping for a swift result tomorrow so at least I get some cash back. What a pathetic performance against a NZ second XI.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2021, 10:27:32 PM
- Bracey brought into squad to be the extra batsman. Foakes gets injured and they decide - ah well Bracey can keep a bit we’ll chuck him into an unfamiliar position and thus confuse him and ratchet up the pressure.
- No spinner picked in first game, not particularly successful. A baked Edgbaston pitch and again fail to choose a spinner and end up with two part timers bowling, who get belted around the park.
Post by: Richard E on June 13, 2021, 08:52:11 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2021, 09:13:52 AM
I think one of the most concerning things is the muddled thinking that’s evident. Examples -
- Bracey brought into squad to be the extra batsman. Foakes gets injured and they decide - ah well Bracey can keep a bit we’ll chuck him into an unfamiliar position and thus confuse him and ratchet up the pressure.
- No spinner picked in first game, not particularly successful. A baked Edgbaston pitch and again fail to choose a spinner and end up with two part timers bowling, who get belted around the park.
Made even more bizarre by the fact that, when Robinson was suspended, the replacement player they brought in was a spinner (Bess)
When that decision was made, I was sure that Leach would play
Post by: manic-road on June 13, 2021, 10:46:15 AM
Post by: manic-road on June 13, 2021, 11:03:45 AM
Post by: Rory on June 13, 2021, 11:05:49 AM
Post by: manic-road on June 13, 2021, 11:10:29 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2021, 11:19:41 AM
Didn't even make it to 11am - the official start time.And a complete bummer for Barmy Army's traditional rendition of Jerusalem after the first ball of the day.
Post by: Rory on June 13, 2021, 11:28:17 AM
Didn't even make it to 11am - the official start time.And a complete bummer for Barmy Army's traditional rendition of Jerusalem after the first ball of the day.
I'm gutted for them, Aftab. Just gutted...
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2021, 11:30:08 AM
Post by: Rory on June 13, 2021, 11:36:18 AM
Something good always comes out of bad as they say Rory ;D
True enough 🙂
It's just typical, because I personally would've enjoyed today's play a lot more without the loudmouth 'footie lads', who presumably would've given the cricket a miss to spend the day booing England's footballers.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 13, 2021, 12:25:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2021, 12:35:16 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 13, 2021, 12:52:59 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2021, 01:24:17 PM
Less than 15 overs played so full refunds all round. Useless tossers couldn't even drag it out long enough to make Warwickshire a few quid...Yes that's the most annoying thing about this. The first time in few years hosting a test match the weather is great and County has a chance to make some money over 5 days and incompetent buffoons fuck it up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2021, 08:17:48 PM
I think rotating Jimmy and Broad makes sense at this stage and I get the impression someone doesn’t want to make the tough call so is fudging it.
Post by: Rory on June 13, 2021, 08:39:01 PM
I think one shift that’s created imbalance is the apparent decision that Broad and Anderson are going to play together. That’s fine, but you can’t then mix it with their desire to have a fast attack, because it means your suddenly forced to have four seamers and no spinner to carry to workload.
I think rotating Jimmy and Broad makes sense at this stage and I get the impression someone doesn’t want to make the tough call so is fudging it.
Agree, again. It's the most sensible 'rotation' decision we could make, yet it's the one we appear most reluctant to. I'd never start a test without a frontline spinner, unless it's truly exceptional circumstances.
Root was visibly angry yesterday and today. Purely conjecture, but I wonder if his input into selection has been reduced. Getting rid of Ed Smith's role struck me as a strange decision, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is an anti-'design by committee' approach, and they're looking for Silverwood to be the head architect of the team.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 13, 2021, 09:37:17 PM
I think one shift that’s created imbalance is the apparent decision that Broad and Anderson are going to play together. That’s fine, but you can’t then mix it with their desire to have a fast attack, because it means your suddenly forced to have four seamers and no spinner to carry to workload.
I think rotating Jimmy and Broad makes sense at this stage and I get the impression someone doesn’t want to make the tough call so is fudging it.
Think it is the absence of Stokes that causes the imbalance Paul, as we don't have another all-rounder who can be the 4th seamer and bat in the top six. Moeen Ali's decline in form has meant we haven't got a spinner who could possibly bat in the top six either, so it then becomes a problem to find that balance.
With both Sam Curran and Woakes not available, the option of batting a seamer at seven and moving the keeper up to six was gone as well.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2021, 09:39:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 13, 2021, 10:18:15 PM
[url][/url]I think one shift that’s created imbalance is the apparent decision that Broad and Anderson are going to play together. That’s fine, but you can’t then mix it with their desire to have a fast attack, because it means your suddenly forced to have four seamers and no spinner to carry to workload.
I think rotating Jimmy and Broad makes sense at this stage and I get the impression someone doesn’t want to make the tough call so is fudging it.
Think it is the absence of Stokes that causes the imbalance Paul, as we don't have another all-rounder who can be the 4th seamer and bat in the top six. Moeen Ali's decline in form has meant we haven't got a spinner who could possibly bat in the top six either, so it then becomes a problem to find that balance.
With both Sam Curran and Woakes not available, the option of batting a seamer at seven and moving the keeper up to six was gone as well.
That's why i'm so pissed off at how they've handled Woakes in the last year, he'd make a big difference by batting at 7 and he is very good at Lords and Edgbaston.
Post by: Steve67 on June 13, 2021, 10:20:55 PM
Post by: Rory on June 13, 2021, 10:47:50 PM
I agree with Paul that Woakes should be an absolute necessity if Stokes is out. I love Woakesy, and I'd have him involved most tests, so bias admitted.
Unless you're playing at Chester Le-Street in April, you have a spinner. Simple as that.
All this talk about 'balance of the team'. I'm sorry, but I think I'd be happier if we played Root, a specialist 'keeper and 9 bowlers. I just don't see what we actually gain by thinking 'our batting is shite, so let's have as many batters as possible'.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 14, 2021, 09:47:26 PM
Broad and Jimmy are both still world class, but I don't think they offer the variety anymore. There's nothing wrong with selecting one or the other.
I agree with Paul that Woakes should be an absolute necessity if Stokes is out. I love Woakesy, and I'd have him involved most tests, so bias admitted.
Unless you're playing at Chester Le-Street in April, you have a spinner. Simple as that.
All this talk about 'balance of the team'. I'm sorry, but I think I'd be happier if we played Root, a specialist 'keeper and 9 bowlers. I just don't see what we actually gain by thinking 'our batting is shite, so let's have as many batters as possible'.
I am biased when it comes to Woakes as well, but feel that Sam Curran is above him now in the eyes of the selectors, especially as he offers the variety of the left arm option. Agree that either one of those two has to play though if Stokes is out.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2021, 10:21:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2021, 11:09:13 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 16, 2021, 12:59:19 AM
I think for the short/medium term Malan would be a good option at 3. He’s got big runs for Yorks, he has successfully recent international experience (albeit in 20/20, but it’ll help his belief), and he’s scored runs in Australia. I’d be confident he could do a decent job for the next 18 months or so.
Have thought for a while that Malan should maybe get a look-in in the test side, but at 5 / 6. Not sure he is a test match 3 Paul, but guess there would be no harm in trying him.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 16, 2021, 09:47:32 AM
Generally I'm in favour of playing matches away from the big venues, but that does mean a lack of TV pitches.
Hence why the Test will be on a pitch that was used for a T20 last week.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 16, 2021, 11:44:46 AM
Tickets still available if anyone down this way copes with the sun/heat better that I do
Solid start from England
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2021, 12:56:59 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 16, 2021, 02:45:15 PM
It’s really poor that it’s a used pitch.
It's playing OK
Wouldn't have been a problem if the ECB had been up front about things; ie that it had to be this pitch due to camera positions and DRS
Post by: UK Redsox on June 18, 2021, 12:25:16 PM
Can't see there being any play today and the forecast for the next five days looks iffy
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2021, 12:29:34 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 18, 2021, 01:26:47 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 19, 2021, 04:43:15 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 23, 2021, 12:05:02 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 23, 2021, 12:40:44 PM
India struggling. NZ could win this
I hope so, I love the way they play the game.
Post by: Rory on June 23, 2021, 12:47:41 PM
India struggling. NZ could win this
I hope so, I love the way they play the game.
Me too. I also think they have been the most consistent team, at home and away, for the best part of ten years now. You always know you'll get a game from them, and probably an entertaining one.
Post by: paul_e on June 23, 2021, 02:00:11 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 23, 2021, 02:42:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 23, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 23, 2021, 05:04:24 PM
Post by: Rory on June 23, 2021, 05:39:57 PM
Even England will feel confident to chase this down.
I wouldn't go that far!
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
Post by: Rory on June 23, 2021, 06:00:56 PM
Go on the Kiwi’s.
Definitely.
Post by: olaftab on June 23, 2021, 06:38:08 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/WK3J5Tp/5ea443e7-6df8-4c01-8441-cd97427c90c6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WK3J5Tp)
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 23, 2021, 06:45:17 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 23, 2021, 06:55:54 PM
Well lawks a-mercy, what a world we live in. Chris Woakes is 32 and is going grey.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 24, 2021, 05:02:27 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 24, 2021, 06:35:42 PM
T20 vs Sri Lanka
Well lawks a-mercy, what a world we live in. Chris Woakes is 32 and is going grey.
.....and rested after one game back
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 24, 2021, 06:41:18 PM
In case anyone was unaware, the England v Sri Lanka T20 this evening is on BBC2.
Cheers! It tells me I’ve become too Sky oriented.
Post by: paul_e on June 24, 2021, 07:30:00 PM
T20 vs Sri Lanka
Well lawks a-mercy, what a world we live in. Chris Woakes is 32 and is going grey.
.....and rested after one game back
Befors it started they said he can't play back to back games, I wonder if he's carrying something because how he's been used helps no one.
On the game England have been superb with the ball, totally outclassed them so far.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 24, 2021, 07:57:17 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 24, 2021, 07:58:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2021, 08:53:30 PM
Some kind of token effort from SL would be nice
Gone a bit early there!
Post by: Villan For Life on June 24, 2021, 10:27:58 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 25, 2021, 02:02:43 PM
It’s good to see international cricket back on terrestrial television but it’s all a bit TMS on TV. I’m a huge fan of TMS, I probably listen to more international cricket than I watch on TV but Sky’s TV coverage is so much better.
It was a bit Vaughan heavy for me and, as much as I'm a fan of Zaltz, I don't think that his niche stats were the way to go on BBC TV
I switched between to two, depending on who was commentating. Great that Sanga was on Sky. He knows his stuff does Kumar
.....and, yep.....I did write SL off a bit too soon. Good bowling effort
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2021, 10:45:20 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on June 26, 2021, 12:20:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2021, 06:09:49 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 26, 2021, 07:12:35 AM
I don’t mind Tufnell, he plays the clown a bit but I do find him entertaining and I actually think that he does have a lot of knowledge.
I agree with you. He’s got plenty of insight and he’s perfectly suited to TMS, but his style is just wrong for TV.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 26, 2021, 09:20:41 AM
Isuru Udana
(https://sempreinter.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/giroud-2048x1366.jpg)
Olivier Giroud
(https://i0.wp.com/crictoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/udana-ashoke-1601471459.jpg?w=1100&ssl=1)
Post by: JD on June 26, 2021, 10:53:35 AM
Superb. Finally the good guys come first in cricket. Well done the Kiwis.
(https://i.ibb.co/WK3J5Tp/5ea443e7-6df8-4c01-8441-cd97427c90c6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WK3J5Tp)
Yeah, go the Kiwi's. They have a great team and I am very pleased they have finally won something. Great guys as well, see them around when they are in camp and they are a great bunch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2021, 03:42:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 26, 2021, 04:49:41 PM
Malan proving (something he’s expected to do far too often) why he’s an absolute must pick.
Makes the comments from Vaughan about putting Stokes at 3 look all the more stupid as well, which is great.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2021, 05:34:10 PM
Post by: JD on June 27, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
Kyle Jamieson’s stats in Test cricket so far are bonkers. 46 wickets in 8 Tests at 14!
I've seen Gulliver (his nickname) live and he is so tall and fast he is very hard to play. Bit like Courtney Walsh and great and tall West Indies bowlers. When you watch bowlers like him side on you really appreciate how quick a batsman's reactions must be.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 27, 2021, 10:05:00 AM
I don’t think it’s that straightforward. Sri Lanka at Southampton is about as far from the sharp end of a world t20 in UAE v India / WI / Aus as you could get. His failures in India do raise questions about his role especially when rivals for the job (Root / Livingstone) offer more to the side than just batting in those conditions.Malan proving (something he’s expected to do far too often) why he’s an absolute must pick.
Makes the comments from Vaughan about putting Stokes at 3 look all the more stupid as well, which is great.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 27, 2021, 10:50:07 AM
Malan proving (something he’s expected to do far too often) why he’s an absolute must pick.
In England, yes......but not in India or UAE
I'd have Root in the team ahead of Malan for the T20WC
Post by: paul_e on June 27, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
Malan is world number 1 and his best position is 3, With Roy and Buttler ahead of him and then Morgan, Stokes, Bairstow and Livingstone in the middle order the batting is fine. What we need to do though is be willing to change the order based on the game situation.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 29, 2021, 02:19:29 PM
How is Woakes not the first name on the team sheet in all formats ?
Post by: UK Redsox on June 29, 2021, 05:39:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2021, 07:04:13 PM
10 overs, 4 for 18
How is Woakes not the first name on the team sheet in all formats ?
Playing in England he should be, superb today.
Post by: JD on June 30, 2021, 09:57:40 AM
10 overs, 4 for 18
How is Woakes not the first name on the team sheet in all formats ?
That is brilliant bowling. I can't believe England don't use him more.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2021, 10:36:53 AM
10 overs, 4 for 18
How is Woakes not the first name on the team sheet in all formats ?
That is brilliant bowling. I can't believe England don't use him more.
I suspect they don't trust him in sub-continent conditions so he's was sidelined for the test tours in the winter and has been pushed aside in the T20 as well, despite his record in the IPL this year being pretty solid.
The figures don't tell the full story though, if you go here - https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12345049/england-v-sri-lanka-1st-odi-highlights - the 3rd wicket is an absolute beauty from Woakes, would've been too good for far better batsmen than Shanaka. 4th is good as well.
Post by: Rory on June 30, 2021, 11:01:07 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2021, 04:56:44 PM
"Tammy Beaumont was one who did it. She had a lot of success ......."
....except he somehow contracted the word "success", so that it was only three letters :)
Good job that it was Isabel Westbury commentating with him rather than Alex Hartley. The latter would have lost it completely
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2021, 09:20:43 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 04, 2021, 12:07:55 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 04, 2021, 02:37:42 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 04, 2021, 02:50:49 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 06, 2021, 10:06:39 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 06, 2021, 10:48:19 AM
England naming entire new squad for Pakistan after seven positive Covid tests.
Morgan must be one of them, because Stokes will be captain.
Good chance to give a few different players a run out. Something that's unlikely with Morgan as captain
Post by: PGW on July 06, 2021, 10:59:34 AM
England naming entire new squad for Pakistan after seven positive Covid tests.
Morgan must be one of them, because Stokes will be captain.
Good chance to give a few different players a run out. Something that's unlikely with Morgan as captain
Well one thing for sure complete new XI as whole of squad isolating, maybe the odd debut.
Will certainly disrupt current round of county games with Stokes currently at Edgbaston. At least got to watch him bowl yesterday.
I daresay gonna be players pulled out of county games across the country.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 06, 2021, 01:55:25 PM
Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire), Danny Briggs (Warwickshire), Brydon Carse (Durham), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Lewis Gregory (Somerset), Tom Helm (Middlesex), Will Jacks (Surrey), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Dawid Malan (Yorkshire), Craig Overton (Somerset), Matt Parkinson (Lancashire), David Payne (Gloucestershire), Phil Salt (Sussex), John Simpson (Middlesex), James Vince (Hampshire).
There was discussion during the County commentary about Hales not being called up. However, as I think Kevin Howells pointed up, it would be wrong to ask him to come back in an emergency, for fear of being told where to shove their selection.
I thought that Malan had made himself unavailable
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2021, 05:14:50 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2021, 08:50:15 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 06, 2021, 08:51:24 PM
Post by: CT on July 08, 2021, 05:40:54 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2021, 01:46:32 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 09, 2021, 07:24:27 AM
The England ODI machine keeps rolling on. I've seen Mahmood play in a few domestic games on TV this season and he has looked a real handful, so good to see him get a chance. Also good to see Parkinson get a chance and take a couple of wickets, as a leggy comes in handy in ODI cricket.Agree about Mahmood. Hoping Will Jacks gets a go in at least one of the next two also. Parkinson’s fielding however is nowhere near the required standard and will hold him back if he can’t improve that.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2021, 08:46:31 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on July 09, 2021, 09:01:14 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on July 09, 2021, 09:12:00 AM
I was hoping to watch on TV after work yesterday. Could have done without England being so clinical. Game was over before I logged off my PC
same here Roger :(
UTV
The Doc
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2021, 11:02:24 AM
I was hoping to watch on TV after work yesterday. Could have done without England being so clinical. Game was over before I logged off my PCNormally it’s a problem for visiting teams especially those from the sub continent to adjust to the English conditions but COVID restrictions have made that problem much much worse. We saw this with Sri Lanka’s performance. Whilst their team is in transition they were totally ill prepared to face England. Same will happen to Pakistan as they have played little or no cricket since arriving here. I have tickets for Tuesday at Edgbaston and hoping that it is a more competitive match🤞
Post by: Ad@m on July 10, 2021, 03:40:28 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/57785924
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 11, 2021, 05:57:29 PM
Post by: charlatan on July 13, 2021, 08:52:02 PM
You've done well thereI was hoping to watch on TV after work yesterday. Could have done without England being so clinical. Game was over before I logged off my PCNormally it’s a problem for visiting teams especially those from the sub continent to adjust to the English conditions but COVID restrictions have made that problem much much worse. We saw this with Sri Lanka’s performance. Whilst their team is in transition they were totally ill prepared to face England. Same will happen to Pakistan as they have played little or no cricket since arriving here. I have tickets for Tuesday at Edgbaston and hoping that it is a more competitive match🤞
Post by: Nev on July 13, 2021, 09:00:29 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 13, 2021, 10:39:34 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/cricket/2021/0713/1234912-ireland-claim-historic-win-over-south-africa/
Post by: Rory on July 13, 2021, 11:26:25 PM
That match at Edgbaston was a marvellous palette cleanser after the last couple of days, wonderful sport, good natured crowd, lovely weather and a fitting tribute to Bob Willis.
Yes, I was delighted to see the tribute to Bob. Classy tribute to a great bowler and a wonderful man.
Post by: olaftab on July 13, 2021, 11:46:31 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12123/12355436/england-v-pakistan-eoin-morgan-among-returning-stars-for-t20-series
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2021, 09:59:47 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 14, 2021, 10:04:37 AM
Quote
Ben Stokes, who stood in for Morgan as skipper against Pakistan, is rested along with Mark Wood, Chris Woakes and Sam Curran, but Jos Buttler returns having recovered from a calf injury, while 20-over regular Dawid Malan keeps his usual spot.
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex - captain), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Jake Ball (Nottinghamshire), Tom Banton (Somerset), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Tom Curran (Surrey), Lewis Gregory (Somerset), Chris Jordan (Sussex), Liam Livingstone (Lancashire), Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire), Dawid Malan (Yorkshire), Matt Parkinson (Lancashire), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), David Willey (Yorkshire)
Post by: PGW on July 14, 2021, 01:56:42 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 14, 2021, 07:00:02 PM
What exactly is Chris Woakes 'resting' from.Rest. He has had far too much rest of late and that can be stressful.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 14, 2021, 08:40:33 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 16, 2021, 08:54:03 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 16, 2021, 10:07:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 18, 2021, 03:28:50 PM
He’s just hit one out of the ground
Post by: UK Redsox on July 18, 2021, 03:38:41 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 18, 2021, 04:03:42 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 18, 2021, 04:04:35 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 18, 2021, 05:08:16 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 18, 2021, 05:09:49 PM
Hell of a catch by Rashid off his own bowling.
Massive wicket that.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 18, 2021, 05:18:35 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 18, 2021, 05:34:16 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 18, 2021, 05:52:55 PM
Not quite in Rahkeem Cornwall league though.
Post by: paul_e on July 18, 2021, 05:57:38 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 18, 2021, 10:13:20 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 20, 2021, 12:15:22 AM
Another reason to curse the b*stards who sold the game out to Murdoch, so they could pretend to nourish the grass-roots of the game.
F*ck 'em. I'm off to Leicester-Derby on Thursday.
Post by: CT on July 20, 2021, 09:51:15 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 20, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Post by: TheTimVilla on July 21, 2021, 10:11:51 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 21, 2021, 01:14:05 PM
England squad: Joe Root (Yorkshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Dom Bess (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Sam Curran (Surrey), Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham)
Woakes misses out through injury. He really needs to play less cricket ::)
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2021, 02:01:19 PM
Eng squad for first two Tests against India
England squad: Joe Root (Yorkshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Dom Bess (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Sam Curran (Surrey), Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham)
Woakes misses out through injury. He really needs to play less cricket ::)
I might be wide of the mark here but I can't help feeling that Woakes is currently going through the sort of situation where he's so desperate to prove his fitness that he's over doing it in training and making things worse. England really should have just said they were resting him for the entire summer because that's what's happened now anyway but by making him go to camps and carry drinks they've effectively taken him out of contention for Warks as well.
Post by: PGW on July 21, 2021, 02:20:41 PM
Eng squad for first two Tests against India
England squad: Joe Root (Yorkshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Dom Bess (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Sam Curran (Surrey), Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham)
Woakes misses out through injury. He really needs to play less cricket ::)
I might be wide of the mark here but I can't help feeling that Woakes is currently going through the sort of situation where he's so desperate to prove his fitness that he's over doing it in training and making things worse. England really should have just said they were resting him for the entire summer because that's what's happened now anyway but by making him go to camps and carry drinks they've effectively taken him out of contention for Warks as well.
Heel injury.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 25, 2021, 10:34:11 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 26, 2021, 01:21:11 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2021, 05:50:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2021, 05:55:21 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 30, 2021, 06:28:35 PM
Post by: Nev on July 30, 2021, 06:34:03 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 30, 2021, 09:45:22 PM
Seems strange hope he’s ok.
I don’t think it seems strange, he has spent most of the last year living in a bio-secure bubble during which time he lost his father. I’m not surprised he needs time away from the limelight.
It’s also a coincidence that this announcement comes in the same week that England players have voiced doubts about playing through the winter without a break and enforced time away from their families. Stokes plays in all three formats too.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 02, 2021, 11:33:38 AM
There's really only Stokes, Woakes and Curran. A much as we all like Woakes, there's a big drop off from Stokes to him, batting-wise.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
Post by: Nev on August 04, 2021, 10:58:42 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2021, 11:09:07 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2021, 11:42:56 AM
Another fine start by our openers. I predict Crawley gets less than 10.
make a new prediction, Go bigger.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2021, 12:22:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2021, 12:32:15 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2021, 01:08:07 PM
Glad he’s proved me wrong thus far.
Who? The bloke who got caught behind a few minutes after your post ? :)
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2021, 01:14:12 PM
Glad he’s proved me wrong thus far.
Who? The bloke who got caught behind a few minutes after your post ? :)
Yes but he scored more than 10 and PWA didn't put another target so, in a way, it's his fault. :)
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2021, 04:34:33 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2021, 04:40:01 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2021, 05:05:51 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 04, 2021, 05:06:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2021, 05:42:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 04, 2021, 05:47:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 04, 2021, 07:34:24 PM
We’re a mess.
Post by: Nev on August 04, 2021, 07:53:56 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on August 04, 2021, 08:05:49 PM
Post by: Nev on August 04, 2021, 08:22:03 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 04, 2021, 10:35:53 PM
Yep I’m getting pretty fed up with the sub par Test side. The top 3 is consistently failing. The middle order rarely produces and the selection is always off. Failing to pick a spinner is a mistake we keep making. Also I’ve come to the point where it doesn’t make sense to me to select Jimmy and Broad in the same side.
We’re a mess.
The broad/Anderson partnership has been brilliant. Time for England to be brave now though and drop one of them for Wood, Stones, Woakes and move us forward. Curren can swing it but is too slow for test cricket. Archer can't come back quickly enough. Not sure what to make of Robinson yet. The Aussies are going to rip us to pieces with the weak minded filth we are serving up currently.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2021, 09:27:27 AM
The batting and muddled selection is the biggest worry.
Sibley - I just don’t see it, he might get the occasional score but he’s too one paced. Good bowlers will always get him out and he doesn’t pose a counter threat.
Crawley - one brilliant innings aside has shown very little. He has talent, but needs to understand his game more. Test cricket is not the place to learn.
Lawrence - again talented, but another one who doesn’t seem to understand his game.
Pope - probably the most talented. But his change in technique of moving to the off stump to counter playing at wide balls seems to have caused damage to his game as a whole.
Selection - stop failing to pick a spinner, it doesn’t work. Not saying it’ll change any results at the moment, because if we get no runs it’s largely academic. But it speaks to poor thinking in selection, which is illustrated by the wider issues in the team.
Post by: PGW on August 05, 2021, 12:48:58 PM
Just got back. Very poor. Not a fan of an lbw umpires call on height in the first over of a match to be honest. Batting woeful though notwithstanding that. When was the last time Buttler hit a red ball before today ? And a few others. Four 0’s in the top 9 !
Two of our starting xi havent played any red ball cricket whatsoever this season and many of the others at start of season in April when devoid of any hard wickets.
The Hundred has interefered too much with the county game. Just playing on green tops in April & September not gonna help any wannabe test batsman.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2021, 01:12:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2021, 02:04:37 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2021, 04:18:26 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 06, 2021, 03:20:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 06, 2021, 11:26:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2021, 11:27:47 AM
Post by: TopDeck113 on August 07, 2021, 11:37:56 AM
However, the biggest concern is the batting. Simply not good enough at the top of the order. If the Ashes goes ahead this winter, we're going to be blown away.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 07, 2021, 11:42:43 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 07, 2021, 04:04:24 PM
We look in poor shape for Australia, but Robinson looks a good bowler.I reckon bowling will be ok come end of the year however batting is very fragile for a test team so it's not going to be pretty in Australia.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on August 07, 2021, 04:20:27 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 07, 2021, 05:33:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 07, 2021, 06:51:55 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 10, 2021, 11:44:41 AM
I fear for this series and the Ashes, it’s getting back to 1990’s levels of ineptitude. As memorable as the World Cup win was, it’s clearly come at the expense of test cricket.
Think the ECB have a lot to answer for really. They have sidelined the County Championship to the point where it is just a footnote in the domestic season and the real highlight of the season is getting as many pissed up idiots as possible at Edgbaston singing Sweet Caroline on T20 finals day.
I may be out of step, but for me the County Championship is the biggest prize and the competition should be the bedrock of the game in this country. I just can't see how you fit everything in now though and the 50 over tournament has now been downgraded to a reserve team competition in favour of The Hundred. Young players coming through now see the rewards on offer in the white ball competitions around the world and develop a game suited to those forms of cricket.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 10, 2021, 11:52:33 AM
I went yesterday and we looked a poor, sloppy team in the field with no spark. Broad I reckon is gone and if Archer was fit shouldn't be in the Test team.
However, the biggest concern is the batting. Simply not good enough at the top of the order. If the Ashes goes ahead this winter, we're going to be blown away.
Don't think Silverwood was the right person for the job to be honest as something hasn't been right with the test set up for some time now and it needed a new approach. They still seem to be persisting with this mantra of "that's the way we play" after batsmen are continually getting themselves out and the problems just persist. New Zealand are an example of how test cricket should be played, but the England set up has seemed too "matey" for some time now.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 10, 2021, 12:12:31 PM
I hope that he plays (ahead of Lawrence), otherwise what's the point in bringing him in.
I'd also like to see Hameed start ahead of Sibley
Post by: dcdavecollett on August 11, 2021, 02:14:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 11, 2021, 03:50:42 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 11, 2021, 02:55:33 PM
Saqib Mahmood called up
Post by: UK Redsox on August 11, 2021, 04:08:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 11, 2021, 04:29:34 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 11, 2021, 10:53:39 PM
Looks like Broad is out of the Second Test and there's doubts over Jimmy as well
Saqib Mahmood called up
Will be good to see Mahmood get a chance. Will be an interesting selection if we feel we need four seamers and a spinner.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 12, 2021, 11:07:16 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2021, 12:45:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 12, 2021, 12:58:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 12, 2021, 05:11:57 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 12, 2021, 10:16:35 PM
It’s looking grim here.
Agreed. That first session featured some abysmal bowling - fractionally short and didn’t amend their lengths until the ball stopped moving about.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 12, 2021, 10:29:10 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 12, 2021, 10:52:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 12, 2021, 11:48:25 PM
It’s looking grim here.
Agreed. That first session featured some abysmal bowling - fractionally short and didn’t amend their lengths until the ball stopped moving about.
Anderson and Robinson were slighty short but they kept things tight, Curran came on and, to quote Vaughan (who is a twat but was right on this), bowled like a schoolboy. His first spell was some of the worst test bowling I've seen for England for years.
Didn’t really seem to be a bowling plan as such.
I think there was, the bowlers just didn't deliver it and seemed to spend the first hour blaming the ball for their failings because they weren't getting as much swing as they expected.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 13, 2021, 05:46:44 AM
The bowling unit is beyond criticism at the moment but we can’t afford another poor day with the ball. Or is it a subconscious thing of - and the same applies to the batsmen with Root - we will be ok because we have Jimmy.
Post by: paul_e on August 13, 2021, 10:07:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 13, 2021, 01:01:47 PM
Post by: dave shelley on August 13, 2021, 02:13:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 13, 2021, 02:30:57 PM
Post by: dave shelley on August 13, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 13, 2021, 02:33:37 PM
India all out for 364.
Another fifer for Jimmy at Lord's and another spot on the honours' board, just the 18 years after his first
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 13, 2021, 02:40:23 PM
Post by: dave shelley on August 13, 2021, 04:06:06 PM
Post by: dave shelley on August 13, 2021, 04:07:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 13, 2021, 04:08:12 PM
Kind of need to be hitting a ball heading for middle stump
Post by: UK Redsox on August 13, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 13, 2021, 04:09:36 PM
All on Root again.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 13, 2021, 04:13:21 PM
Um…..well…… that didn’t go to plan Haseeb :(
Kind of need to be hitting a ball heading for middle stump
Yeah he was late on it. When he scores a century second innings he can look back and laugh at that!
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 13, 2021, 04:14:50 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 13, 2021, 04:40:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 08:48:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 01:06:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 14, 2021, 01:16:43 PM
Brilliant morning.
It’s perfect conditions for the batsmen, we need them both to continue well into the afternoon session and beyond.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 14, 2021, 06:28:33 PM
Post by: Rory on August 15, 2021, 12:34:26 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 15, 2021, 01:37:04 PM
Post by: Colhint on August 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
Joe Root is finally delivering on his unbelievable potential. What a player.
Hard to believe he is 2 years younger than Kohli with nearly 2000 more test runs
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2021, 04:37:30 PM
How the fuck does Bumrah get the pace and accuracy he does from that run-up? He looks like a hungover trundler, then he's suddenly at 85mph top of off.
Yep, his proper run up can’t be more than ten yards
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2021, 05:23:40 PM
Game now probably hinges on the approach that Pant takes.
England will probably be happy for him to score 30/40 as long as he doesn’t hang around for long.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2021, 05:29:37 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2021, 05:30:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 15, 2021, 05:51:51 PM
Post by: PGW on August 16, 2021, 10:01:19 AM
I refuse to watch 100 so at close of play at Lords been switching over for this game, not Saturday as at Watford, but a classic
few hours yesterday, WI wanting 168 to win were eventually down to about 148/9. I wrongly assumed Pakistan would win
but a steadfast partnership by Roach and teenager Seales somehow managed to see the game out. The wicket was doing things all day with majority of wkts either ct in slips or behind.
So it was a surprise they were able to see it through.
Shame it's only a 2 game series, second starting Friday 16:00
Jayden Seales went onto get the MOTM due to him being the youngest ever West Indian to get a 5fer, only 19.
I love a low scoring test match
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2021, 11:55:51 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 11:56:32 AM
England need to be careful here. Don’t get carried away with short ball, these aren’t good batters.
Post by: Monty on August 16, 2021, 12:00:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 12:04:57 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2021, 12:07:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 12:08:34 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2021, 12:09:17 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 12:11:25 PM
Post by: Monty on August 16, 2021, 12:14:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 12:17:57 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2021, 12:35:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 12:44:27 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2021, 12:48:13 PM
Our best option now is definitely to allow India to bat for longer to take overs out of the game. Our shit batting line up have next to no chance of chasing 250 plus down
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 12:50:07 PM
Post by: Villafirst on August 16, 2021, 12:56:42 PM
Post by: aev on August 16, 2021, 01:04:44 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 01:57:15 PM
No way will England go for this
Post by: Steve67 on August 16, 2021, 02:01:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 02:14:33 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 16, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2021, 02:17:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 02:21:34 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Environment/Pix/columnists/2010/11/3/1288804802871/Hologram-of-Princess-Leia-007.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=ad16680474dfbfc7eecda541e65492f1)
Post by: Steve67 on August 16, 2021, 02:29:34 PM
Surely that’s enough of Sibley now? Burns too quite possibly. What a disaster.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 02:38:35 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 02:47:33 PM
England's top scorers this year are Root and Burns. The former has over 800 more runs than the latter
Burns and Sibley combined this year have more ducks than Sir Chef had in his entire Test career
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 02:50:26 PM
After bringing him back, Hameed has to get the rest of the series.
Sibley's gotsta go, so moving Hameed up one and bringing in Pope seams the only option left.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 03:12:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 03:14:02 PM
Post by: Rory on August 16, 2021, 03:23:03 PM
From Zaltz........
England's top scorers this year are Root and Burns. The former has over 800 more runs than the latter
Burns and Sibley combined this year have more ducks than Sir Chef had in his entire Test career
Also from Zaltz:
It's the third time this year England's top three have been dismissed for a total fewer than 10.
Post by: aev on August 16, 2021, 03:45:16 PM
Post by: Steve67 on August 16, 2021, 03:46:59 PM
1/ Virat Kohli has a very punchable face
2/ England have got no balls whatsoever
Post by: Steve67 on August 16, 2021, 03:48:05 PM
Still, good news that the ECB are really happy with the way the Hundred is going.
Yeah, test cricket is dead, long live the Hundred! Knobbers.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 04:04:16 PM
Still, good news that the ECB are really happy with the way the Hundred is going.
Not only that, they think that The Hundred will help the Test Team
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/qTsLIyLFEKKHK/giphy.gif)
The Hundred is great for women's cricket (with the disclaimer I made in the domestic thread about some players just making up the numbers).
I don't see anything that it brings to the men's game that T20 doesn't.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 16, 2021, 04:24:14 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 16, 2021, 04:27:54 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 16, 2021, 04:28:02 PM
It’s weird to say after scoring 9, but he looked alright there given the context of the situation.
Apart from the edge to slip which should have been taken when he was on about 3 or 4.
Post by: CT on August 16, 2021, 05:19:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 05:25:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 05:26:23 PM
It’s weird to say after scoring 9, but he looked alright there given the context of the situation.
Apart from the edge to slip which should have been taken when he was on about 3 or 4.
Yeah but that can happen.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 05:27:45 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 16, 2021, 05:40:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 05:47:04 PM
Sibley has had plenty of opportunity now and I think it’s time to move on.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 16, 2021, 06:00:06 PM
It’s weird to say after scoring 9, but he looked alright there given the context of the situation.
Apart from the edge to slip which should have been taken when he was on about 3 or 4.
Yeah but that can happen.
Should have been out for four and then out for 9 after a first baller in the first innings doesn't exactly inspire confidence Paul.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 06:35:13 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2021, 06:37:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 06:38:11 PM
However England as a whole are an utter shambles and I’d be looking at the coaching and those above the coaching. First class and Test cricket has been marginalised and defeats like today are what you get. Let’s be honest take two of the best players to have ever played for England, Root and Anderson, and we’d have probably lost in 2 and a half days.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 16, 2021, 06:41:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 16, 2021, 07:15:33 PM
This needs fundamental change. We’re falling behind in this form of the game and it’s unacceptable. Look at NZ and the resources they have.
Need to start getting more South Africans in again!! Agree with your point though Paul and this has been a problem for some time now. Just don't see there being an easy fix either, it is going to take some real changes and rebuilding.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 16, 2021, 07:15:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 08:35:56 PM
Post by: Gareth on August 16, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
With the batting issues what they should do is look at the County Championship performances for the last 2/3 weeks and find the form players in form facing the red ball……ermmmmm…..doh!
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2021, 10:29:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 17, 2021, 08:27:44 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 17, 2021, 10:08:49 AM
There's no one who stands out as 'FEC' in the way that Root and, before that, Sir Chef did when they came into the team.
I don't think that it's something you can land on Stokes when (if?) he comes back.
I'm not sure that Buttler is an option as anything more than a stand-in when needed.
Therefore, for me, Root stays as captain until after the Ashes. Hopefully by that point the team as a whole will have got their act together and the question of changing captain will be moot.
Post by: Villafirst on August 23, 2021, 06:58:50 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 23, 2021, 11:04:50 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 25, 2021, 12:26:25 AM
Wood out of the Third Test
That's Archer, Broad, Wood, Woakes and Stone all now out injured. Would like to see Mahmood given a go as just think that Overton is one of those who isn't really up to it.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2021, 10:39:25 AM
Haseeb Hameed
Dawid Malan
Joe Root(c)
Jonny Bairstow
Jos Buttler(wk)
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Craig Overton
Ollie Robinson
James Anderson
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2021, 10:40:34 AM
Rohit Sharma
KL Rahul
Cheteshwar Pujara
Virat Kohli(c)
Ajinkya Rahane
Rishabh Pant(wk)
Ravindra Jadeja
Ishant Sharma
Mohammed Shami
Jasprit Bumrah
Mohammed Siraj
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2021, 10:45:02 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2021, 11:03:47 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Post by: KNVillan on August 25, 2021, 01:01:35 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2021, 02:38:41 PM
EDIT - Make that 67-9 and 4-0 in 6 balls
Post by: KNVillan on August 25, 2021, 02:40:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 25, 2021, 02:44:25 PM
Post by: bilsim on August 25, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
Post by: KNVillan on August 25, 2021, 02:57:20 PM
Post by: KNVillan on August 25, 2021, 03:47:34 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 25, 2021, 03:57:11 PM
Post by: CT on August 25, 2021, 06:21:08 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 25, 2021, 07:07:52 PM
Post by: Rory on August 25, 2021, 08:57:49 PM
Post by: Colhint on August 25, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Best day I can remember since Melbourne 2010.
what you doing here? You should be preparing to bat in the morning.
Post by: Rory on August 25, 2021, 09:13:03 PM
Best day I can remember since Melbourne 2010.
what you doing here? You should be preparing to bat in the morning.
Haha, I need something to read while I'm waiting for my ponytail to air-dry.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 26, 2021, 07:24:01 AM
Post by: manic-road on August 26, 2021, 07:48:57 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on August 26, 2021, 08:16:32 AM
Bat all day please England, what an incredible day yesterday.
yes please....actually a day and a half should do it...
UTV
The Doc
Post by: paul_e on August 26, 2021, 01:01:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 26, 2021, 02:33:26 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 26, 2021, 03:39:44 PM
Looking forward to seeing Bairstow, Buttler and Ali hopefully coming in with a big lead on the board and being able to really attack.
Post by: KNVillan on August 26, 2021, 03:43:31 PM
Post by: DrGonzo on August 26, 2021, 04:33:37 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 26, 2021, 04:39:42 PM
Post by: LeeB on August 26, 2021, 04:40:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 26, 2021, 05:46:37 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 26, 2021, 05:53:15 PM
5 sessions of textbook test match cricket from England. Shane Warne has just said commentary that they have to be ruthless now and not allow the Indians a glimmer of hope.
Looking forward to seeing Bairstow, Buttler and Ali hopefully coming in with a big lead on the board and being able to really attack.
Bairstow Buttler and Ali all go fairly cheaply in the end, hope we can still be batting by lunch tomorrow.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 26, 2021, 07:14:09 PM
I’d declare overnight to make best use of the early morning conditions which tend to be seam friendly at Headingley. We have enough runs in the bank.
Post by: Steve67 on August 26, 2021, 09:31:51 PM
Post by: KevinGage on August 27, 2021, 12:19:01 AM
But it says a lot about the fragility of this England batting line up that there's even an element of doubt about the result still.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 27, 2021, 12:55:12 AM
Good to get past the 400 mark psychologically.
But it says a lot about the fragility of this England batting line up that there's even an element of doubt about the result still.
Top four gave a great exhibition of test match batting and we had a chance to bat for a long period tomorrow and grind India down, potentially for the rest of the series. As it was Bairstow, Buttler, Ali and Curran all went in the same session.
Don't get me wrong, would have snapped the hand off anyone who would have offered us the position we are in at the end of day two, especially after the debacle at Lord's.
Post by: simboy on August 27, 2021, 07:48:31 AM
We scored over 300 runs in the day, that’s something that we haven’t done for a long time!
I’d declare overnight to make best use of the early morning conditions which tend to be seam friendly at Headingley. We have enough runs in the bank.
Personally I’d bat for 15 minutes in the morning ( or until losing the 9th wicket -whichever was sooner) and then declare. Don’t give them the luxury of mentally preparing over their cornflakes to bat all day, out in the field bowl a few, having to warm up differently.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 27, 2021, 08:12:03 AM
Joking aside, I don't see the point in declaring. We have got bags of time. If we add another 50 from here it just wears them down even more.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 27, 2021, 08:40:16 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 27, 2021, 10:22:47 AM
Post by: LeeB on August 27, 2021, 01:02:35 PM
Post by: KNVillan on August 27, 2021, 01:07:30 PM
Post by: KNVillan on August 27, 2021, 06:23:53 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 27, 2021, 06:30:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 27, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 27, 2021, 08:06:27 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 28, 2021, 10:04:37 AM
Post by: KNVillan on August 28, 2021, 12:00:25 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on August 28, 2021, 12:19:49 PM
Agreed we are still very much the favourites but that was a bad day. At least I will have some cricket to watch tomorrow on the bright side.Hope you’re enjoying. Not much better than England’s bowlers on a roll.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 28, 2021, 12:50:00 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 28, 2021, 12:54:53 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 28, 2021, 06:43:51 PM
Meanwood Villa, I think you get your money back?
Half I think. And a great win too. The collapse everyone was expecting yesterday.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 28, 2021, 09:46:04 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 28, 2021, 10:17:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 31, 2021, 08:44:21 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 01, 2021, 04:20:41 PM
Shows how there's no obvious regular FEC in the squad
Post by: UK Redsox on September 01, 2021, 08:34:31 PM
(Even though the NZ catching was dreadful)
Shame that Tammy Beaumont fell just short of her century. One of my favourite current cricketers.
Post by: KNVillan on September 02, 2021, 11:44:50 AM
Post by: KNVillan on September 02, 2021, 01:04:07 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 02, 2021, 04:49:58 PM
Post by: KNVillan on September 02, 2021, 05:29:09 PM
Edit: 6-2
Post by: manic-road on September 02, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 02, 2021, 05:38:31 PM
Post by: Holte132 on September 02, 2021, 05:45:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 02, 2021, 05:46:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 02, 2021, 06:25:38 PM
Post by: KNVillan on September 02, 2021, 06:33:22 PM
Post by: manic-road on September 02, 2021, 07:02:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 03, 2021, 11:34:55 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 03, 2021, 12:52:13 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 03, 2021, 01:00:08 PM
Decent recovery from Bairstow and Pope
I've got to be honest I wasn't watching until I saw the comment from PWA so I turned it on expecting to Woakes and Ali in trying desperately to get us in touch, finding we had Bairstow and Pope building an innings was a pleasant surprise.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 03, 2021, 01:00:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 03, 2021, 03:52:41 PM
I reckon another 50-60 would be a good score, big final session though, if we're still batting by the end of the day I'd say we're in a strong position. Surface isn't terrible but does look like one where you're never 'in' which is why a lot of people keep getting out when they should be looking to move on.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 03, 2021, 04:37:28 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 03, 2021, 05:09:45 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 03, 2021, 05:13:50 PM
Incorrectly announced at the ground as his 100th due to a TMS cock up ;D
Post by: Villan For Life on September 03, 2021, 05:56:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 03, 2021, 05:56:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 03, 2021, 06:37:43 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 03, 2021, 09:58:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 03, 2021, 10:42:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2021, 11:31:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2021, 01:21:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2021, 02:47:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2021, 04:54:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 04, 2021, 05:57:22 PM
That is all, of course, based on us not seeing a spectacular collapse that sees us chasing 200ish with 4-5 sessions to do it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 04, 2021, 06:12:28 PM
We’ve just got to hope we can somehow keep them under 270 and then hope the pitch holds up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2021, 11:39:10 AM
Post by: olaftab on September 05, 2021, 12:14:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 05, 2021, 02:22:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 05, 2021, 02:32:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2021, 03:25:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2021, 04:04:29 PM
Post by: German James on September 05, 2021, 04:31:46 PM
Yep we’ll be 3 down before we hit 20 no doubt.Nil desperandum! England only need to better their highest ever successful run chase! ::)
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 05, 2021, 04:33:33 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 05, 2021, 04:34:20 PM
I'm going for 180 all out
Post by: German James on September 05, 2021, 04:43:44 PM
Apologies for repetition German James!Great minds etc!
I'm going for 180 all out
You might be right with the prediction. They'll be caught between playing for the draw and trying to chase, I reckon.
Post by: paul_e on September 05, 2021, 05:09:30 PM
Post by: KNVillan on September 05, 2021, 06:51:09 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 05, 2021, 06:55:01 PM
Post by: Steve67 on September 05, 2021, 07:14:29 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on September 05, 2021, 07:41:33 PM
291 is too many to get in a day I feel. Would need a one-day Malan at his best type innings to win this.
Probably, but if we get to tea with enough wickets in hand it might get interesting.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 05, 2021, 08:04:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 05, 2021, 09:34:25 PM
291 is too many to get in a day I feel. Would need a one-day Malan at his best type innings to win this.
It's only just over 3 an over, given it's supposed to be clear weather tomorrow keeping wickets in hand is the bigger issue, if we're still in the middle with wickets in hand after tea overs/time won't be a problem.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 05, 2021, 09:44:18 PM
Bit annoyed I've got work tomorrow. It's when Test cricket's at its best, all results possible, some more likely than others, doggedness will triumph, be it from batters or bowlers.
Watch it be a damp squib now, all over by lunch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 11:43:06 AM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2021, 12:03:26 PM
Annoying time for Burns to get out. We don’t want to give India a sniff.
It is but 3-4 more 50s (including the Hameed one that is already delivered) will go a long way to flipping the pressure on to them.
I love the stat on BBC just though, that Burns wicket means this is the first time that someone has been dismissed for exactly 50 in every innings of a test.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2021, 12:27:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2021, 12:41:45 PM
I haven't had the radio on for a while, but that sounds like a Zaltz stat
Of course it is.
Malan gone with a run out, that's really poor.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 06, 2021, 12:50:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 12:55:36 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 06, 2021, 01:04:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2021, 01:11:28 PM
I’m going with Hameed’s fault. It was too tight, risk versus reward wasn’t right.
I'd say both, there was enough time for them to get through if both had been looking for it but Malan was on his heels, Hameed should've recognised that and stopped but Malan should've been aware enough to either run as soon as Hameed did or send him back. Was just poor all round.
All that said I prefer Hameed and Root as a pair to see out 20-30 overs than Hameed and Malan so I don't think the wicket makes that big a difference. If these 2 can build a partnership then the chances of us losing go down every over.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2021, 01:53:31 PM
Probably more of a chance of England winning now, but also more likely that India will win. Draw is looking unlikely now.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 06, 2021, 01:54:28 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2021, 02:05:46 PM
Might not even make tea now
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 02:07:51 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on September 06, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2021, 02:20:27 PM
I meant the drinks break
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 06, 2021, 02:21:14 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on September 06, 2021, 02:21:34 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2021, 02:23:04 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 06, 2021, 02:31:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 06, 2021, 02:58:17 PM
Collapsing like this is bad enough on any surface, but to do it on one as docile as this is a new level of pathetic. Even from this ridiculously laughable England batting line up
Yep, it was a decent spell from Bumrah but shouldn't have been enough to take the game like it seems to have.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 02:58:47 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2021, 03:21:41 PM
Watch them - collapsing
Jaded - collapsing new people
Watch them - collapsing
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 03:31:40 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2021, 04:39:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 04:58:26 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2021, 05:18:52 PM
Also who is coaching our fielding? We drop a lot of catches and we virtually never hit the stumps with throws. It costs us lots of runs.
That should be Collingwood's job, I think.
However, as discussed on TMS during this Test, when Colly was told how poor England's slip fielding is compared to other nations, he played the problem down.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 05:27:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 05:27:48 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on September 06, 2021, 05:49:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 06:24:02 PM
Post by: simboy on September 06, 2021, 06:37:50 PM
The balance is about right with what we have but we do miss Stokes and Broad.
India are a very good side, probably the best test side around in world cricket currently. They’re not firing on all cylinders but know how to win key moments.
It’s been a good series so far I think.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 06, 2021, 07:21:19 PM
We are over-reliant on a handful of core players such as Root, Jimmy and Stokes. The rest are flattering to deceive and if the core fails then the rest collapse like a deck of cards around them. It’s pathetic and I worry about the Ashes which should start in November if it happens at all. Let’s hope that COVID comes to our rescue!
Post by: simboy on September 06, 2021, 07:37:30 PM
Batting-wise, Hamid will struggle with more bounce, still to be convinced about Burns, is Malan a test number 3? Pope might be ok. Who keeps? Buttler probably not going, the selectors don’t seem to like Foakes preferring Bracey!
As you say VFL not looking hopeful.
Post by: Steve67 on September 06, 2021, 07:40:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 07:50:33 PM
We have big periods of games where our intensity drops way too much, and this is coupled with poor fielding standards. This then bleeds into our batting where it always feels like the attitude is we’ll pack the team with players who can bat, but it just means no one other than Root takes responsibility on a consistent basis.
There is a lot to do to sort us out.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 06, 2021, 08:00:50 PM
Unfortunately I do think we have a few barren years ahead of us in test cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 08:27:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 06, 2021, 08:33:48 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2021, 09:24:43 AM
The Ashes …
Who keeps? Buttler probably not going, the selectors don’t seem to like Foakes preferring Bracey!
Bracey only played because Foakes was injured.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 07, 2021, 09:43:23 AM
Not a chance we'll win in Australia mind, but that's a once in a generation thing at the best of times.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 07, 2021, 09:43:55 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2021, 09:50:07 AM
Post by: Holte132 on September 07, 2021, 10:00:18 AM
Pretty obvious what needs to be done. Get rid of the County Championship and add a few more tournaments that will interest people who don't really like cricket. Suggestions for name: "The Fifty", "The Ten", "The One", "The Coin Toss".
Made me laugh - thanks! ;D ;D ;D
Post by: UK Redsox on September 09, 2021, 02:35:36 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 09, 2021, 02:36:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 09, 2021, 03:23:10 PM
Post by: Kevin Dawson on September 09, 2021, 03:52:21 PM
Yesterday was disappointing but both tests we've lost this series we've been in them. This is probably the best Indian team in history and they haven't dominated us. In fact, rain permitting, I fancy us to bounce back next test.
Not a chance we'll win in Australia mind, but that's a once in a generation thing at the best of times.
Best Indian team in history? Really? I think the team with Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag was far stronger, plus they had Kumble....
Post by: UK Redsox on September 09, 2021, 04:13:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 10, 2021, 08:47:18 AM
Post by: aev on September 10, 2021, 08:49:21 AM
The 5th test has been called off due to Covid in the Indian squad/backroom staff.
Thought their players all took pcr's yesterday and they were negative?
Seems to me the marginalisation of Test cricket continues, as IPL looms on the horizon.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 10, 2021, 08:55:59 AM
The 5th test has been called off due to Covid in the Indian squad/backroom staff.
Thought their players all took pcr's yesterday and they were negative?
Seems to me the marginalisation of Test cricket continues, as IPL looms on the horizon.
Well yes
Post by: Richard E on September 10, 2021, 08:59:55 AM
Post by: aev on September 10, 2021, 09:08:49 AM
Post by: aev on September 10, 2021, 09:17:02 AM
Good day to bury bad news etc
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 10, 2021, 10:28:17 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 10, 2021, 10:44:38 AM
Post by: PGW on September 10, 2021, 10:50:10 AM
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.
Haven't the BCCCI got the majority on the ICC so i doubt it.
Post by: olaftab on September 10, 2021, 10:51:52 AM
Post by: olaftab on September 10, 2021, 10:57:10 AM
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.Never mind ICC who are gutless what about ECB?
ECB have capitulated already by considering BCCI offer to reschedule. Obviously when it suits Indian players😳
Post by: tomd2103 on September 10, 2021, 11:15:12 AM
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.
Haven't the BCCCI got the majority on the ICC so i doubt it.
Sorry, was being sarcastic!! BCCCI run the game so absolutely nothing will be done.
Post by: Martin Carruthers on September 10, 2021, 11:16:19 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 10, 2021, 11:16:55 AM
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.Never mind ICC who are gutless what about ECB?
ECB have capitulated already by considering BCCI offer to reschedule. Obviously when it suits Indian players😳
Not sure there was much the ECB could have done when they were informed 2 hours before the start of play that the Indians weren't playing.
Post by: aev on September 10, 2021, 11:35:17 AM
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.Never mind ICC who are gutless what about ECB?
ECB have capitulated already by considering BCCI offer to reschedule. Obviously when it suits Indian players😳
Cricket really doesn't help itself sometimes, and the ECB have been in my bad books for a while now.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 10, 2021, 12:01:22 PM
The UK Govt should insist that they quarantine for ten days in the Ancoats Travelodge
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 10, 2021, 12:32:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 10, 2021, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 10, 2021, 01:24:16 PM
Not sure there was much the ECB could have done when they were informed 2 hours before the start of play that the Indians weren't playing.Errrm…yes they should ask for forfeiture as opposition have not met the requirement and rules are clear. By entering into negotiations to reschedule they are compromised and made it easier for ICC to call the match void.
Post by: aev on September 10, 2021, 03:15:28 PM
Not sure there was much the ECB could have done when they were informed 2 hours before the start of play that the Indians weren't playing.Errrm…yes they should ask for forfeiture as opposition have not met the requirement and rules are clear. By entering into negotiations to reschedule they are compromised and made it easier for ICC to call the match void.
I wonder if ticket refunds are affected by how the match is classed?
What a depressing day for cricket.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 10, 2021, 06:51:25 PM
Not sure there was much the ECB could have done when they were informed 2 hours before the start of play that the Indians weren't playing.Errrm…yes they should ask for forfeiture as opposition have not met the requirement and rules are clear. By entering into negotiations to reschedule they are compromised and made it easier for ICC to call the match void.
Surely their hand was forced somewhat by having to try and recoup some of the lost revenue. Sorry, but the Indian team and their arrogant attitude are the ones to blame here.
Post by: olaftab on September 11, 2021, 09:39:12 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 15, 2021, 04:25:06 PM
Post by: Nev on September 15, 2021, 06:17:28 PM
Educated, considered, dignified and understated the game is much the worse without his contribution.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 15, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
Noooo.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 15, 2021, 06:28:55 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 16, 2021, 04:19:52 PM
I was thinking of starting a thread about great commentators across sports. He was in there. Bugger.
Start that thread Woofles. I have a few nominations and also some nominations for "commentators that everyone else thinks is great but I think are crap".
Exhibit A being a bloke who's considered a national treasure in the USA, but who I think is terrible.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 16, 2021, 04:47:57 PM
Post by: PGW on September 17, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Literally pulled the plug about 45 minutes before first ODI was about to start.
Shame was looking forward to some cricket to watch today.....safety must come first.
Post by: Lsvilla on September 17, 2021, 11:53:28 AM
The New Zealand Government have this morning cancelled NZ's tour to Pakistan citing the increased threat in Pakistan.Be surprised if England go there now.
Literally pulled the plug about 45 minutes before first ODI was about to start.
Shame was looking forward to some cricket to watch today.....safety must come first.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 17, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
I don't know what the chances are of switching the games to another venue. With the IPL starting back up, World League matches already underway and the World T20 to follow, I'm not sure that there are any available grounds in the Gulf at the moment.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 19, 2021, 09:06:47 PM
came off the total they needed.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 20, 2021, 05:07:29 PM
Post by: aev on September 21, 2021, 08:54:02 AM
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/george-dobell-ecb-hypocrisy-and-double-standards-in-pakistan-tour-cancellation-could-lose-them-friends-1278788
Post by: UK Redsox on September 21, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
Quite.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/george-dobell-ecb-hypocrisy-and-double-standards-in-pakistan-tour-cancellation-could-lose-them-friends-1278788
Good article that. I'd forgotten about the 2017 situation
Post by: UK Redsox on September 22, 2021, 10:57:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/58645067
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 25, 2021, 09:47:25 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on September 26, 2021, 02:35:44 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 26, 2021, 03:27:46 PM
England netball tour of Australia called off due to Covid regulations. Not sure how The Ashes is still expected to go ahead?
That's a strange one, seeing as they would have been arriving from New Zealand.
However, reports read as if it's England that have called off the games.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 26, 2021, 03:28:53 PM
Can't see NZ getting 348
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 27, 2021, 09:04:35 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 27, 2021, 09:24:10 AM
Post by: Steve67 on September 27, 2021, 10:13:48 PM
Post by: Gareth on September 28, 2021, 04:31:36 PM
Doesn't look like Mo is going to play a lot of red ball cricket next season according to the BBC report. The Pears could do with a decent number three batsman and a useful spinner. With Leach stepping down as captain, Gidman should fuck off, but before he does that, he needs to ask Mo to take over as captain.
Someone else can ask the question….Gidman should just go and get on the m5 now before he runs low on fuel.
Would say an opener and a number 3 are priorities….happy to go with Baker as spinner & loan one in if needed during season
Post by: UK Redsox on September 29, 2021, 02:57:09 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/29/england-a-tour-opens-up-life-changing-opportunities-in-womens-cricket
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on October 07, 2021, 10:23:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2021, 09:28:32 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 11, 2021, 12:46:58 AM
As strong a side as we could select, but you feel that Stokes and Archer not being available are hammer blows to our hopes.
Yep, real shame that Archer and Stokes won't be there and be able to play on that stage. Think we would be up against it in any circumstances if their bowling attack are all fit and firing though. Can only see them ripping through our batting line up throughout the series.
Guess our options were somewhat impacted by injury, but looks like they have gone with too many fast-medium bowlers again, a number of whom have had a bad time down there before.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 11, 2021, 09:03:37 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 11, 2021, 10:00:53 AM
If so, it'll be interesting to see what pace bowlers are included in that squad, because I suspect that a couple of them might be needed in the Ashes.
The England Fast Bowling Programme, just seems to produce injured players at the moment.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 11, 2021, 10:33:12 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on October 11, 2021, 05:09:31 PM
I’ll cheerfully watch highlights if we do well, or at least credibly.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 11, 2021, 05:22:49 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2021, 05:44:08 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 11, 2021, 06:14:30 PM
I don't suppose any of The Ashes are going to be day nighters? It would be nice to, at least, listen to a bit of it live.
The second test in Adelaide is a day/nighter, it starts at 4am our time and is on from 16th to 20th December. The fifth test isn’t a day/nighter but because it’s in Perth it starts at 2.30am our time so around breakfast time here we should have the final session each day to watch from 14th to 18th January. Of course it will be all over by then!
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 11, 2021, 06:58:11 PM
Post by: Rory on October 12, 2021, 12:21:53 AM
Watching the Sunrisers in the IPL and they’ve got this 21 year old Umran Malik who’s hurtling them down at 93 mph! If he keeps fit he’s going to be a menace.
I saw that and he impressed me as well. Think a couple of deliveries touched 96mph, which often seems to be that magical point at which a batsman's eyes can no longer see the ball.
Very natural and relaxed action, as well, so I think you're right. If they don't overcoach him, he could be an absolutely devastating bowler.
Post by: Rory on October 12, 2021, 12:28:45 AM
Ta. You're probably right, I can't say I'm overly confident. One away win in the thirty odd years I've been watching, and we've been hammered more times than we have even still been in the series with a test two go.
If we'd had Anderson, Broad, Stone, Woakes, Archer, Wood, Leach to choose from, I'd be relatively confident in our bowling. I cannot see any configuration of batters that would do a good enough job down there. Glad Malan was selected but we just do not have runs in us.
I know external factors have played a huge part, but this whole idea of planning ahead, rotating and building towards this series couldn't have gone much worse, in my view. Avoiding a whitewash would be an achievement for me right now.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 12, 2021, 12:45:22 PM
Ta. You're probably right, I can't say I'm overly confident. One away win in the thirty odd years I've been watching, and we've been hammered more times than we have even still been in the series with a test two go.
If we'd had Anderson, Broad, Stone, Woakes, Archer, Wood, Leach to choose from, I'd be relatively confident in our bowling. I cannot see any configuration of batters that would do a good enough job down there. Glad Malan was selected but we just do not have runs in us.
I know external factors have played a huge part, but this whole idea of planning ahead, rotating and building towards this series couldn't have gone much worse, in my view. Avoiding a whitewash would be an achievement for me right now.
With our previous bowling struggles in Australia well known and with Archer and Stone already ruled out, I really thought they would have given someone like Mahmood a chance this summer with an eye on the Ashes.
I think Anderson, Robinson and Wood looks the best bet, with Woakes possibly playing as an all-rounder. Think our spin options will get slaughtered.
Post by: Rory on October 12, 2021, 12:51:17 PM
Ta. You're probably right, I can't say I'm overly confident. One away win in the thirty odd years I've been watching, and we've been hammered more times than we have even still been in the series with a test two go.
If we'd had Anderson, Broad, Stone, Woakes, Archer, Wood, Leach to choose from, I'd be relatively confident in our bowling. I cannot see any configuration of batters that would do a good enough job down there. Glad Malan was selected but we just do not have runs in us.
I know external factors have played a huge part, but this whole idea of planning ahead, rotating and building towards this series couldn't have gone much worse, in my view. Avoiding a whitewash would be an achievement for me right now.
With our previous bowling struggles in Australia well known and with Archer and Stone already ruled out, I really thought they would have given someone like Mahmood a chance this summer with an eye on the Ashes.
I think Anderson, Robinson and Wood looks the best bet, with Woakes possibly playing as an all-rounder. Think our spin options will get slaughtered.
Good point about Mahmood.
Sadly, I think you're right about spin. Who was that young spinner whose career we destroyed by taking him on one of our more recent Ashes disasters, was it Kerrigan?
Post by: Martin Carruthers on October 12, 2021, 12:57:07 PM
Post by: Rory on October 12, 2021, 01:35:28 PM
I think Kerrigan played in a home test, the last one of the series.
Ah okay. Who was the lad we took to Aus who got figures in one test of like 1-350?
Edit: just looked it up. Mason Crane, 1-193 at the SCG in 2018.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2021, 03:52:14 PM
Personally I think our team looks pretty ordinary for the conditions. I can almost guarantee we won’t play a spinner in the first test.
Post by: paul_e on October 12, 2021, 05:17:44 PM
The wheels always come off at the end of the Ashes tour. I wonder how many players have been given debuts and have subsequently gone on to play less than 5 Tests (in some cases no more than 1). I can think of Crane, Borthwick, Rankin, Tom Curran (think he debuted before the last Test). It just feels like all sensible decision making goes out of the window.
Personally I think our team looks pretty ordinary for the conditions. I can almost guarantee we won’t play a spinner in the first test.
It's that they panic when the whitewash looks possible and throw random teams together in the hope of scrapping a test.
Post by: Gareth on October 12, 2021, 11:54:51 PM
The wheels always come off at the end of the Ashes tour. I wonder how many players have been given debuts and have subsequently gone on to play less than 5 Tests (in some cases no more than 1). I can think of Crane, Borthwick, Rankin, Tom Curran (think he debuted before the last Test). It just feels like all sensible decision making goes out of the window.
Personally I think our team looks pretty ordinary for the conditions. I can almost guarantee we won’t play a spinner in the first test.
I don’t see us scoring 300 in any innings that Root doesn’t score a ton….should he get a knock or have to quarantine it’ll be a very long tour
Post by: Rory on October 13, 2021, 12:35:34 AM
Post by: OzVilla on October 14, 2021, 01:10:47 PM
Post by: Rory on October 14, 2021, 01:14:57 PM
I’ve made a bet with an Aussie mate that in the potential 10 innings in this series, England will score 200+ on no more than 4 occasions.
Scarily plausible. If Root has a bad tour, it could be a massacre.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on October 14, 2021, 09:53:36 PM
83,000 at the MCG Boxing Day
An amazing top order (England): Cook, Strauss, Trott, Pieterson, Bell
Tim Tremlett: forgotten about him. He’s enormous too
Aussies get pulverised
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 14, 2021, 10:10:36 PM
I’ve made a bet with an Aussie mate that in the potential 10 innings in this series, England will score 200+ on no more than 4 occasions.
Scarily plausible. If Root has a bad tour, it could be a massacre.
I think that's a winner
Post by: Rory on October 14, 2021, 11:25:38 PM
BT Sport have been showing highlights of the 2010 Ashes. Today I watched 2 hours of unadulterated pleasure - the 4th Test.
83,000 at the MCG Boxing Day
An amazing top order (England): Cook, Strauss, Trott, Pieterson, Bell
Tim Tremlett: forgotten about him. He’s enormous too
Aussies get pulverised
Chris Tremlett - the Tim was Bresnan. But you're absolutely right, he was a beast and that was a great side. Arguably a better Aussie side than we've faced since, as well.
I have the boxset of that series. Absolutely loved it. I was at university at the time, and I don't think I attended a single lecture or seminar for the duration. I was essentially nocturnal.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2021, 12:28:54 PM
I’ve made a bet with an Aussie mate that in the potential 10 innings in this series, England will score 200+ on no more than 4 occasions.
I would think Melbourne and Sydney might scupper you there.
Post by: Rory on October 15, 2021, 05:59:15 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on October 16, 2021, 06:13:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 20, 2021, 01:50:27 PM
He's batting has fallen apart to the extent that he's not worth a place in the team
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on October 20, 2021, 06:01:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 20, 2021, 08:55:45 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 22, 2021, 02:18:57 PM
EDIT.....They're out
Post by: UK Redsox on October 22, 2021, 03:51:40 PM
England v India 2022 - revised schedule
1-5 July: Fifth Test, Edgbaston
7 July: First T20, Ageas Bowl
9 July: Second T20, Edgbaston
10 July: Third T20, Trent Bridge
12 July: First ODI, Kia Oval
14 July: Second ODI, Lord's
17 July: Third ODI, Emirates Old Trafford
Post by: Rory on October 22, 2021, 04:01:01 PM
Ireland look to be on their way out
EDIT.....They're out
They did better than Netherlands, at least. 44-9.
Edit: 44ao
Post by: UK Redsox on October 22, 2021, 04:04:13 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 22, 2021, 04:58:53 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 22, 2021, 05:01:10 PM
England v India 5th Test rearranged for just before next season's white-ball gamesTotally annoying that ECB have not made then concede. And to pour more salt on it we had tickets for the 1st test at Edgbaston against SA and now it's going to be the arrogant ****** taking that slot and SA test is moved to Old Trafford.
England v India 2022 - revised schedule
1-5 July: Fifth Test, Edgbaston
7 July: First T20, Ageas Bowl
9 July: Second T20, Edgbaston
10 July: Third T20, Trent Bridge
12 July: First ODI, Kia Oval
14 July: Second ODI, Lord's
17 July: Third ODI, Emirates Old Trafford
Post by: PGW on October 22, 2021, 05:42:50 PM
England v India 5th Test rearranged for just before next season's white-ball gamesTotally annoying that ECB have not made then concede. And to pour more salt on it we had tickets for the 1st test at Edgbaston against SA and now it's going to be the arrogant ****** taking that slot and SA test is moved to Old Trafford.
England v India 2022 - revised schedule
1-5 July: Fifth Test, Edgbaston
7 July: First T20, Ageas Bowl
9 July: Second T20, Edgbaston
10 July: Third T20, Trent Bridge
12 July: First ODI, Kia Oval
14 July: Second ODI, Lord's
17 July: Third ODI, Emirates Old Trafford
Really pissed off with this, was looking forward to SA game at Edgbaston now that's gone and we have a dead rubber against India.
Not a happy bunny.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2021, 11:26:59 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2021, 02:06:01 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2021, 03:29:08 PM
Good start from England, though. Gayle among four early wickets.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 23, 2021, 04:10:37 PM
For 9.
From 13.
Rashid 3-2 off 2.
A session of catching practice in the deep for England.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 23, 2021, 04:32:19 PM
Post by: Rory on October 23, 2021, 04:51:55 PM
Post by: Ad@m on October 23, 2021, 05:13:20 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2021, 05:23:31 PM
Post by: Rory on October 23, 2021, 05:28:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 23, 2021, 09:23:40 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 23, 2021, 10:01:19 PM
Post by: Rory on October 23, 2021, 10:43:01 PM
To be honest winning in 8 overs has massively put our net run rate over the top. If we’re in a position where it matters I think we’ll be ahead of anyone else.
Agreed Paul. Lost two or three more wickets than would've been ideal, but it's a brilliant start.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 24, 2021, 01:36:54 AM
To be honest winning in 8 overs has massively put our net run rate over the top. If we’re in a position where it matters I think we’ll be ahead of anyone else.
Agreed Paul. Lost two or three more wickets than would've been ideal, but it's a brilliant start.
Yep, agree about losing four wickets as it would have been a real early statement to have won by 10 wickets or to have only lost one against a side that many are saying will be contenders.
Not overlooking Bangladesh, but the game against the Aussies next Saturday is a mouthwatering one.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 24, 2021, 07:25:36 AM
I’d love to see us as World Champions in both forms of white ball cricket, it wouldn’t make up for the mess that is red ball cricket but it’d still be good.
Post by: UK Redsox on October 24, 2021, 11:43:26 AM
Why do they do this ?
Post by: Rory on October 24, 2021, 03:16:11 PM
Fecking Danny fecking Morrison commentating in the T20 World Cup.
Why do they do this ?
"BOOM!"
Post by: paul_e on October 24, 2021, 04:44:47 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 24, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 24, 2021, 06:30:53 PM
Good start. Mon Pakistan. Think I dislike India as much as the Aussies these days. It's a disgrace that the ICC allow them to pick and choose which teams they play tests against.Wow...a thrashing of epic scale for the arrogant fuckers. 10 wickets and 11 balls to spare. It's been a fun afternoon this and stuff at OT.
Post by: Rory on October 24, 2021, 06:38:25 PM
Good start. Mon Pakistan. Think I dislike India as much as the Aussies these days. It's a disgrace that the ICC allow them to pick and choose which teams they play tests against.Wow...a thrashing of epic scale for the arrogant fuckers. 10 wickets and 11 balls to spare. It's been a fun afternoon this and stuff at OT.
INCREDIBLY impressive performance from Pakistan.
Very disciplined and aggressive with the ball, Babar and Rizwan measured and ruthless with the bat, committed and athletic in the field - barring the Afridi overthrows towards the end.
Dominated throughout.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 25, 2021, 09:07:58 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 25, 2021, 09:21:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 25, 2021, 10:50:57 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 25, 2021, 06:20:50 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 25, 2021, 08:34:14 PM
Post by: Beard82 on October 25, 2021, 08:46:04 PM
Stokes is going to the Ashes - hope he’s fully mentally ready, but if he is that’s great news.I think he will be - as on the face of it, there was no pressure on him to do this so hopefully he put a lot of thought into it.
Post by: olaftab on October 25, 2021, 09:39:03 PM
Ahem, still scored more runs than England.And put West Indies in their place with those last 5 runs.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 25, 2021, 10:13:37 PM
Scotland cricket team putting in a Scotland football team type performance.
Afghanistan are going to pose some real problems on these pitches with their spinners. Still not entirely sure that they should be playing international sport given what is going on in that country, but that is a different argument.
Post by: UK Redsox on October 26, 2021, 01:40:25 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
Post by: Rory on October 26, 2021, 01:47:58 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 26, 2021, 05:07:04 PM
Post by: Richard on October 26, 2021, 07:49:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2021, 08:51:20 PM
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Post by: Rory on October 26, 2021, 11:09:14 PM
Reckon Pakistan will win the cup, look strong in all departments.
They do look fantastic.
Post by: Rory on October 26, 2021, 11:16:55 PM
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 26, 2021, 11:41:07 PM
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
Post by: Rory on October 26, 2021, 11:47:48 PM
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
Thanks for the insight, Tom.
You'd think they would've worked this out beforehand. It's not turned out well for them, bit of a PR fuck up.
If the BBC are correct, it sounds like it could be a bit of friction between CSA (who allow kneeling, a fist salute or standing to attention) and the ICC (who presumably are requesting players take a knee).
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 26, 2021, 11:52:24 PM
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping point for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
Post by: Rory on October 27, 2021, 12:32:51 AM
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping point for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
Agreed as ever, CD.
For him to say his reasons are personal - that doesn't sound good to me. In the grand scheme of things, what issue can someone realistically have with taking a knee to support their black teammates?
Post by: JD on October 27, 2021, 07:01:46 AM
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping point for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
Great post CD, exactly how I see things as well.
Post by: paul_e on October 27, 2021, 12:04:00 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 27, 2021, 02:05:46 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 27, 2021, 02:21:13 PM
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
QdK isn't captain any more, Bavuma is
Post by: UK Redsox on October 27, 2021, 03:05:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 27, 2021, 03:07:31 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 27, 2021, 03:11:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 27, 2021, 05:12:49 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 27, 2021, 08:02:43 PM
Impressive from England again. You’d imagine that if we beat Australia on Saturday we’ll almost be through.
Looking forward to the game against the Aussies on Saturday and although it's in a completely different format, the chance to just put a bit of a marker down before the Ashes.
Thought the Bangladesh game might have been a bit of a tricky one, but we navigated it comfortably.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 28, 2021, 12:04:52 PM
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping Zpoint for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
Turns out that he is mixed race and his issue was with the authorities in SA instructing players that they had to do something. Glad it has been resolved though, as he is a terrific cricketer and the tournament is better with him involved.
Post by: Rory on October 28, 2021, 12:18:45 PM
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping Zpoint for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
Turns out that he is mixed race and his issue was with the authorities in SA instructing players that they had to do something. Glad it has been resolved though, as he is a terrific cricketer and the tournament is better with him involved.
I think his stepmother is black, rather than him being mixed race.
It does sound like one big miscommunication based on poor timing from CSA. I still think, given the cause, his profile and nationality, the wiser thing would've been to just go along with it, then have it out with CSA afterwards. Instead they've created this whole media storm.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 28, 2021, 04:42:22 PM
Post by: Risso on October 28, 2021, 06:01:27 PM
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
Thanks for the insight, Tom.
You'd think they would've worked this out beforehand. It's not turned out well for them, bit of a PR fuck up.
If the BBC are correct, it sounds like it could be a bit of friction between CSA (who allow kneeling, a fist salute or standing to attention) and the ICC (who presumably are requesting players take a knee).
All a bit of a PR disaster. Personally I don't think any team or association should be forcing players to take the knee though. It makes the gesture less powerful if people know that some people are doing who don't really want to, and it brings out the possibility of situations like this. You'd hope that most people would want to because they're decent people, but if they're not, let them out themselves.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 28, 2021, 08:23:48 PM
Post by: Rory on October 28, 2021, 10:00:56 PM
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
Thanks for the insight, Tom.
You'd think they would've worked this out beforehand. It's not turned out well for them, bit of a PR fuck up.
If the BBC are correct, it sounds like it could be a bit of friction between CSA (who allow kneeling, a fist salute or standing to attention) and the ICC (who presumably are requesting players take a knee).
All a bit of a PR disaster. Personally I don't think any team or association should be forcing players to take the knee though. It makes the gesture less powerful if people know that some people are doing who don't really want to, and it brings out the possibility of situations like this. You'd hope that most people would want to because they're decent people, but if they're not, let them out themselves.
Overall I'd say I agree, I just don't think any cricket board will want to risk being labelled as soft on racism. I don't think QdK is a racist, and his apology and explanation were good enough for me, it just seems a lot of unnecessary fuss.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2021, 11:05:12 AM
Post by: Rory on October 30, 2021, 12:59:08 PM
I think the Aussie game will be tricky. But they’ve virtually got their Test seam attack playing - they’re brilliant bowlers - but I feel like in short format they can be predictable and got at.
Agreed, Cummins in particular.
Post by: UK Redsox on October 30, 2021, 03:11:45 PM
Post by: manic-road on October 30, 2021, 03:55:21 PM
Post by: manic-road on October 30, 2021, 04:45:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 30, 2021, 04:46:22 PM
Post by: beness on October 30, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
Post by: Rory on October 30, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Woakes was brilliant in that innings and that catch was fucking incredible.
The most underrated player in men's cricket, in my opinion. He gets credit, but nothing like the amount he deserves.
Post by: beness on October 30, 2021, 05:37:39 PM
Post by: beness on October 30, 2021, 05:40:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2021, 05:48:39 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 30, 2021, 05:53:45 PM
Post by: beness on October 30, 2021, 05:54:43 PM
Post by: Rory on October 30, 2021, 06:00:31 PM
Another great win, just hope we have not peaked yet.
Me too, but they've had criticism in the past for starting tournaments slowly, so I'm just enjoying us being one of the two standout teams thus far, along with Pakistan.
Post by: manic-road on October 30, 2021, 06:00:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 30, 2021, 06:01:04 PM
Post by: beness on October 30, 2021, 06:13:37 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 30, 2021, 10:40:01 PM
Post by: Ad@m on October 30, 2021, 10:55:09 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 30, 2021, 11:09:57 PM
Another impressive performance from England earlier today. The tone was set in the first few overs of the game when Warner and then Smith were sent packing.That is such a lovely phrase.
Post by: Rory on October 30, 2021, 11:23:51 PM
Maxwell is a number 6 for me, at most a 5, with the option to bring him in sooner if fast runs are required. To have him at 4 is not a good sign for the Aussies.
Not to downplay England, of course, I thought we were brilliant.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2021, 11:43:00 PM
Post by: Rory on October 31, 2021, 01:40:05 AM
It’s the lack of awareness of 20/20 bowling that surprises me. It’s like Australia think about the game in a way that is 15 years out of date.
I think they feel pressure to pick their stars. You play Cummins or Hazlewood, not both. As you said earlier, they're quality with the red ball because of their accuracy, but neither of them have great variety.
Starc is quality but I don't rate Zampa and think they need to make better use of Stoinis and Maxwell. Neither of them are in the team for batting alone, so they should be go-to bowlers in the middle overs, freeing up a space for another bat.
Who that is, I don't know, but tonight they were short of runs. Another 25 and psychologically the chase becomes harder and they might've been competitive.
Having said that, Buttler is possibly the best t20 batsman in the world when on form. One over from Woakes and one from Jordan aside, we bowled brilliantly, we fielded brilliantly, batted brilliantly and a crushing win is good enough for me!
Post by: tomd2103 on October 31, 2021, 11:06:32 AM
It’s the lack of awareness of 20/20 bowling that surprises me. It’s like Australia think about the game in a way that is 15 years out of date.
I think they feel pressure to pick their stars. You play Cummins or Hazlewood, not both. As you said earlier, they're quality with the red ball because of their accuracy, but neither of them have great variety.
Starc is quality but I don't rate Zampa and think they need to make better use of Stoinis and Maxwell. Neither of them are in the team for batting alone, so they should be go-to bowlers in the middle overs, freeing up a space for another bat.
Who that is, I don't know, but tonight they were short of runs. Another 25 and psychologically the chase becomes harder and they might've been competitive.
Having said that, Buttler is possibly the best t20 batsman in the world when on form. One over from Woakes and one from Jordan aside, we bowled brilliantly, we fielded brilliantly, batted brilliantly and a crushing win is good enough for me!
I do think that given the short nature of T20, stats and 'match ups' are a big part of it and it's one area that England and Morgan in particular obviously invest in.
One really interesting one they brought up before the game yesterday was that Buttler has a strike rate of over 190 against 90+ mph bowling in T20 cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 31, 2021, 10:14:46 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 31, 2021, 10:52:03 PM
Hilarious that India got thumped.
He's going home, he's going home, he's going, Kohli's going home!
Can't see them qualifying now.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 31, 2021, 10:53:28 PM
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 01:22:00 AM
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 01:23:00 AM
Will be pissed off if Scotland lose to that shower.
Sorry to say it, mate, but they will.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 01, 2021, 03:45:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2021, 03:52:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2021, 05:15:08 PM
Post by: Ad@m on November 01, 2021, 05:32:09 PM
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 05:36:13 PM
Post by: Ad@m on November 01, 2021, 05:39:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2021, 05:47:43 PM
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 05:59:30 PM
Brilliant captaincy from Morgan with his field placings. Defending a target on that pitch can't be easy with the amount of dew around but England just seem to have everything working correctly right now.
Agreed. Excellent response to being put under pressure.
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 01, 2021, 08:40:47 PM
Will be pissed off if Scotland lose to that shower.
Sorry to say it, mate, but they will.
It might rain 🤞
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 08:43:13 PM
Will be pissed off if Scotland lose to that shower.
Sorry to say it, mate, but they will.
It might rain 🤞
Or there might be a sandstorm - or a swarm of insects like the one that held up that IPL game once 🤞
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 01, 2021, 08:46:26 PM
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 09:09:46 PM
Edit: India sorry, not Aussie!
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2021, 09:30:29 PM
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2021, 09:33:54 PM
Morgan is a brilliant captain. I think he’ll be a top class coach if he wants to be.
Definitely. I think it was Tom earlier in the thread who spoke about stats and match-ups. Everything feels so researched, considered and well thought-out.
Plus he has a good relationship with the team but also an unthreatening but slightly icy authority to him. Reminds me of Brearley in a lot of ways.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 01, 2021, 09:38:39 PM
Brilliant captaincy from Morgan with his field placings. Defending a target on that pitch can't be easy with the amount of dew around but England just seem to have everything working correctly right now.
Long On, Long Off, with another fielder in between at well….just ‘Long’ ……and the ball is hit straight to the latter.
Pre-tournament, Morgan’s dodgy batting meant that he wasn’t really worth his place in the team, but moments like this are genius captaincy. Plus, a decent forty that might mean he’s finally coming back into form.
Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2021, 10:05:55 PM
Brilliant captaincy from Morgan with his field placings. Defending a target on that pitch can't be easy with the amount of dew around but England just seem to have everything working correctly right now.
Long On, Long Off, with another fielder in between at well….just ‘Long’ ……and the ball is hit straight to the latter.
Pre-tournament, Morgan’s dodgy batting meant that he wasn’t really worth his place in the team, but moments like this are genius captaincy. Plus, a decent forty that might mean he’s finally coming back into form.
Yeah that fielder was perfect, I'm not sure he even had to move to take the catch.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 01, 2021, 10:34:41 PM
Post by: JD on November 02, 2021, 07:02:24 AM
So impressive from England so far this tournament. My nagging fear is being the best team in the tournament then putting in an inexplicably crap performance in one of the knockout games
The way it is currently panning out it could well be New Zealand in the semi finals.
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 03, 2021, 05:43:13 PM
And elsewhere, to nobody's surprise, India are acting like massive bigoted twats. Really hope they don't get through.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-59130556
Post by: Ad@m on November 03, 2021, 08:20:46 PM
Quote
Former England cricketer Gary Ballance has admitted using a racial slur against ex-Yorkshire teammate Azeem Rafiq.
In a statement the batsman, who played 23 Test matches for England, said he regretted using the word.
He said: "I am aware of how hurtful the racial slur is and I regret that I used this word in immature exchanges in my younger years and I am sure Rafa feels the same about some of the things he said to me as well."
I bet he doesn't you daft racist!
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 03, 2021, 08:32:20 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 03, 2021, 09:00:58 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on November 03, 2021, 09:07:42 PM
That's a terrible statement. Sack the twat.
just bantz obvs
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2021, 01:59:10 PM
Post by: Ad@m on November 04, 2021, 02:55:43 PM
I’m staggered by the awfulness of Yorkshire’s handling of this. How did they think this would just go away without consequence?
You mean you don't have faith in an organisation that said had he still been a player they would've punished Rafiq in this situation because he called Ballance a Zimbo?
Post by: Risso on November 04, 2021, 03:15:39 PM
I’m staggered by the awfulness of Yorkshire’s handling of this. How did they think this would just go away without consequence?
You mean you don't have faith in an organisation that said had he still been a player they would've punished Rafiq in this situation because he called Ballance a Zimbo?
Is that what they said, bloody hell. We've got a girl from Zimbabwe who helps us with babysitting and the kids' horses etc, and we went to her 21st birthday party last week. Loads of people from Zim there, and Zimbo is just a slang term like Aussie or Brit. I'm not aware there are any negative connotations to the word, and I heard it used several times at the party last week.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 04, 2021, 04:13:58 PM
I have played sports for many years with people from many different backgrounds and heard a lot of what is referred to as "banter", but some of the stuff coming out of all of this seems way beyond what would be considered acceptable in pretty much any environment imaginable.
Guess we'll have to wait and see what comes out later in the month to get the full story.
Post by: Ad@m on November 04, 2021, 06:23:21 PM
I’m staggered by the awfulness of Yorkshire’s handling of this. How did they think this would just go away without consequence?
You mean you don't have faith in an organisation that said had he still been a player they would've punished Rafiq in this situation because he called Ballance a Zimbo?
Is that what they said, bloody hell. We've got a girl from Zimbabwe who helps us with babysitting and the kids' horses etc, and we went to her 21st birthday party last week. Loads of people from Zim there, and Zimbo is just a slang term like Aussie or Brit. I'm not aware there are any negative connotations to the word, and I heard it used several times at the party last week.
Quote
The panel go on to state that Rafiq might be "expected to take such comments in the spirit in which they were intended (i.e. good natured banter between friends)… [so] it was not reasonable for Azeem to have been offended by [the other player] directing equally offensive or derogatory comments back at him in the same spirit of friendly banter".
Rafiq was also accused by the panel of using "offensive, racially derogatory comments" when referring to a player of Zimbabwean heritage as "Zimbo from Zimbabwe".
The panel reportedly recommended that - were Rafiq still a Yorkshire player - he should face disciplinary action for using the term.
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/yorkshire-cricket-players-racist-jibe-22029605
If nothing else, YCCC reaching that conclusion tells you're they're institutionally racist.
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 04, 2021, 08:06:50 PM
Post by: Ad@m on November 04, 2021, 08:15:41 PM
They've had international matches taken off them, at least for now.
This could bankrupt YCCC.
They've lost all their major sponsors and have now had their only real means of revenue taken away from them. Based on latest financial statements available (2019), of their £18m of revenue, they earned £10.5m from international matches and £3m in commercial income, the vast majority of which will be from their sponsors. When you take out the £3.4m of cost associated with hosting international matches, that leaves them a c.£10m p.a. hole to fill.
I can't see how the board survive this.
Post by: Gareth on November 04, 2021, 09:03:54 PM
Post by: Ad@m on November 05, 2021, 08:30:13 AM
You see he told the board it was wrong but they wouldn't listen to him. And he told the ECB too but they wouldn't help either.
So that's presumably why he resigned when he raised his concerns and they were ignored, as he didn't want to be part of an organisation that tolerated racism, rather than wait until it all came out in the press and he got shamed in to resigning....?
Clearly, the bullying and racism are the worst part of this, but the statements being put out in "defence" of people implicated are almost as bad! In years to come, kids at Public Relations School (I assume that's where PR guys get taught!) will do case studies on YCCC as a case of how to get it completely wrong!!!
Post by: Risso on November 05, 2021, 08:59:57 AM
Vaughan mow implicated in report, thought he was a bit quiet on the issue
I suspect he might be cherrypicking bits to make a point, but being accused of racism because he said somebody was a decent offspinner is surely a bit much.
Post by: Gareth on November 05, 2021, 09:38:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2021, 10:03:34 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 05, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 05, 2021, 01:20:41 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/867419786569035779
Post by: Drummond on November 05, 2021, 01:50:01 PM
Post by: Drummond on November 05, 2021, 01:56:06 PM
I noticed when Nasser Hussain was discussing this with Atherton on Sky yesterday that he used the quote allegedly used by Vaughan, 'one of them' as his lead comment. I suspect there are plenty of people who know what he's like.
Post by: Risso on November 05, 2021, 02:50:23 PM
Example below (if you read his deleted Tweet in the replies). Racist arseholeism for beginners.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/867419786569035779
Yes, so it would appear.
Post by: paul_e on November 05, 2021, 02:56:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2021, 02:56:33 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 01:04:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 03:19:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 03:22:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 03:25:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 06, 2021, 03:25:50 PM
Well, thanks a fucking lot West Indies. Relying on England throwing the South Africa game to knock the Aussies out, then.The Aussies have beaten South Africa so they will go though even if SA beat England. Because all 3 teams in that scenario would have beaten each other run rate will come into play. England and Australia qualify.
Post by: olaftab on November 06, 2021, 03:26:46 PM
SA are going to put on a big score here. Will be tough because they’ve got some excellent boilers.And their grillers are not bad either.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 03:32:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 03:37:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 03:43:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 03:48:42 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 03:57:21 PM
Post by: beness on November 06, 2021, 04:12:20 PM
I would not put it past the Aussies to do it to us but i would love to see us win the lot. Group games included.
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 04:19:14 PM
Post by: beness on November 06, 2021, 04:21:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 04:21:34 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 04:54:05 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 04:59:56 PM
England through.
...as Group Winners.
Post by: beness on November 06, 2021, 05:02:06 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 05:19:04 PM
Probable semi-finals:
England vs New Zealand
Pakistan vs Australia
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 05:43:06 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 06, 2021, 07:44:40 PM
South Africa eliminated.I think it will be England v Australia final.
Probable semi-finals:
England vs New Zealand
Pakistan vs Australia
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2021, 07:54:49 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 07:56:02 PM
South Africa eliminated.I think it will be England v Australia final.
Probable semi-finals:
England vs New Zealand
Pakistan vs Australia
Yeah, I feel a big Pakistan bottle job is due. Sadly not against Scotland. I think Roy will be a big miss so wouldn't be surprised to see an all-Antipodean final.
That said, I wouldn't be amazed to see Afghanistan surprise New Zealand and let India back into it.
Post by: olaftab on November 06, 2021, 08:01:26 PM
That said, I wouldn't be amazed to see Afghanistan surprise New Zealand and let India back into it.Noooooooooo. That must not happen. The worst of all possibilities is India Australia final.
Post by: JD on November 06, 2021, 08:18:38 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 06, 2021, 08:26:57 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 08:31:18 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2021, 08:31:52 PM
That said, I wouldn't be amazed to see Afghanistan surprise New Zealand and let India back into it.Noooooooooo. That must not happen. The worst of all possibilities is India Australia final.
This is the nightmare scenario for me, too. I don't think I would even watch.
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 07, 2021, 01:09:55 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 07, 2021, 03:53:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 01:58:21 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 02:07:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 02:43:41 PM
Group winners should automatically be able to decide whether they want to bat or bowl, IMO.
I agree, in a sport where it can make so much difference giving that benefit to the group winners seems a better idea, I'd never even thought of it before though to be fair.
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 02:44:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 03:18:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 03:20:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 03:25:36 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 03:43:07 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 10, 2021, 03:45:18 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 04:13:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 04:17:10 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 10, 2021, 04:19:33 PM
Still in the balance here.
Moeen on to bowl. Think the spin overs will be decisive. Steve Bruce just been on camera in the ground!!
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 04:57:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 05:02:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 05:18:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 05:19:31 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on November 10, 2021, 05:20:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 05:21:28 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on November 10, 2021, 05:23:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 05:23:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on November 10, 2021, 05:24:40 PM
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2021, 05:31:05 PM
Edit: there was the wicket as well. But not until after he'd done all the damage.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 10, 2021, 05:31:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 05:32:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2021, 05:36:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2021, 05:37:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 10, 2021, 05:37:29 PM
Post by: manic-road on November 10, 2021, 05:43:02 PM
Post by: Steve67 on November 10, 2021, 05:52:33 PM
All credit to New Zealand, but those were three disastrous overs from Rashid, Jordan and Woakes. Must have been 60+ runs off them?
That over from Jordan was arguably the worst over I’ve seen from him.
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2021, 06:04:22 PM
Good look to New Zealkistan for the rest of the tournament.
Post by: JD on November 10, 2021, 09:03:58 PM
Having to listen to dreary NZ radio commentators going on about revenge and how arrogant England cheated them out of the 50 overs World Cup. Please don't let them win, they are really bad winners over here.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 11, 2021, 12:06:32 AM
Post by: Richard on November 11, 2021, 06:39:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 11, 2021, 07:28:46 PM
Post by: Rory on November 11, 2021, 10:48:59 PM
NZ deserve a white ball trophy. I sincerely hope they win it, but we've been here before. This is what the Aussies do. They win.
Bastards.
Post by: JD on November 12, 2021, 04:39:21 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 14, 2021, 03:38:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 14, 2021, 04:49:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 14, 2021, 04:59:52 PM
Post by: Rory on November 14, 2021, 05:01:45 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 14, 2021, 05:32:44 PM
It’s galling that this bang average Aussie side is going to win the World Cup. In general the best 50 over side win the 50 over World Cup - Twenty20 it often doesn’t work like that.The worst possible outcome. I now remember why I hate their cricket arrogance so much. They had been awful really awful in the year or so before the tournament and now...champions. :'(
Post by: Rory on November 14, 2021, 05:43:00 PM
It’s galling that this bang average Aussie side is going to win the World Cup. In general the best 50 over side win the 50 over World Cup - Twenty20 it often doesn’t work like that.The worst possible outcome. I now remember why I hate their cricket arrogance so much. They had been awful really awful in the year or so before the tournament and now...champions. :'(
Typical Aussies - they win even when they're shit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 14, 2021, 07:18:25 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 15, 2021, 10:52:13 AM
Post by: aldridgeboy on November 19, 2021, 09:21:17 AM
Sadly he’s still going to play in the ashes ( further revelations notwithstanding )
Post by: LeeB on November 19, 2021, 10:01:20 AM
Tim Paine has stood down as captain just before the ashes start. Historical texts to blame
Sadly he’s still going to play in the ashes ( further revelations notwithstanding )
Sadly? That's the only upside, I was worried this scandal would mean they'd drop him and pick someone that can play.
Post by: LeeB on November 19, 2021, 10:04:42 AM
Post by: simon ward 50 on November 19, 2021, 12:36:07 PM
Post by: Drummond on November 27, 2021, 11:51:13 AM
Cricket in a mess at the moment. The ECB must get a grip and set an example to the ICC.
Michael Vaughan is coming across as a complete arsehole. Having seen him out and about here, he comes across as an arrogant dick normally too. Never seen him be racist, but he's a history of dodgy tweets and comments, not sure why he thinks people will believe him that he didn't say what four other guys have stated he said.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 27, 2021, 12:40:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 27, 2021, 01:27:47 PM
Cricket in a mess at the moment. The ECB must get a grip and set an example to the ICC.
Michael Vaughan is coming across as a complete arsehole. Having seen him out and about here, he comes across as an arrogant dick normally too. Never seen him be racist, but he's a history of dodgy tweets and comments, not sure why he thinks people will believe him that he didn't say what four other guys have stated he said.
Don’t disagree with your point, but just to note it’s 3 stating he said it. The 4th says he doesn’t remember hearing anything. Doesn’t change much of course.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2021, 03:46:31 PM
Post by: Tony Daleys Shorts on December 03, 2021, 01:39:30 PM
Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root
Stokes
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Leach
Anderson
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 03, 2021, 02:12:46 PM
Post by: shirley_villan on December 03, 2021, 02:16:37 PM
Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Wood
Anderson
Post by: UK Redsox on December 03, 2021, 02:22:19 PM
If he can take on a full fourth seamer roll, then one of the others could be omitted to allow the selection of Leach and give a bit more variety to the attack.
Bairstow v Pope is a bit of a toss-up
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 03, 2021, 03:07:33 PM
Post by: KNVillan on December 04, 2021, 11:27:47 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59485301
Pity the New Zealand batsmen couldn’t help him - 62 All Out
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 04, 2021, 12:20:04 PM
Ajaz Patel of New Zealand becomes only the third bowler to take all 10 wickets in an innings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59485301
Pity the New Zealand batsmen couldn’t help him - 62 All Out
Historic achievement and quite remarkable he'll be on the losing side
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 04, 2021, 02:08:12 PM
They have a very high quality bowling attack especially in their conditions and we have a horrific batting line up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 04, 2021, 04:10:15 PM
Their batting unit hangs on two players, they can be got at. If you put pressure on them they’ll crumble.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 04, 2021, 04:33:33 PM
Post by: Rory on December 04, 2021, 06:54:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 04, 2021, 07:00:30 PM
Ajaz Patel of New Zealand becomes only the third bowler to take all 10 wickets in an innings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59485301
Pity the New Zealand batsmen couldn’t help him - 62 All Out
With India 69-9 at the close, Ajax still has a chance to better Jim Laker and take all 20
Post by: charlatan on December 04, 2021, 07:19:44 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 04, 2021, 07:30:47 PM
Alas 69-0 :(
Oops…….typo by me
I meant 69-0
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 04, 2021, 08:20:49 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 05, 2021, 01:37:39 AM
I’d go:
Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Wood
Anderson
Think previous trips down under have taught us that unless Woakesy is going to open the bowling, he can't really play even if it leaves us with a long tail. Agree with the rest of the side, but would maybe have Pope instead of Bairstow and start Leach.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 05, 2021, 08:41:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 05, 2021, 08:48:27 AM
Post by: Bernie on December 05, 2021, 03:34:14 PM
. He took 4 out of the 7 Indian second innings to fall. 14 out of 17 in the match - not a bad ratio!Alas 69-0 :(
Oops…….typo by me
I meant 69-0
Post by: tomd2103 on December 06, 2021, 02:07:39 PM
I can’t see the Ashes ending well. We will really miss Archer, him and Wood together would have enabled us to fight fire with fire. Unfortunately the rest of our attack is too “English”. They’re great in home conditions but once the shine goes off the Kookaburra ball in Oz they struggle.
Think Ollie Robinson could do well down there as he bowls the kind of length that should cause problems down there. Think it should be him, Anderson and Wood in the first test with Stokes as the fourth seamer, but suspect Broad will start in Brisbane.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 06, 2021, 03:33:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 06, 2021, 05:09:42 PM
I think Robinson could do well. My one question with him is fitness - you saw in the summer after multiple spells, particularly across consecutive matches, he drops off - going from 82/83 mph to about 77/78 mph, which is a big difference. He’s a talented bowler, but I’m not entirely convinced he’s in as good shape as he could be.
Fitness could be an issue Paul, especially if Broad and Anderson open and he is in the role of having to bowl the longer spells..
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 06, 2021, 07:33:12 PM
Post by: simboy on December 06, 2021, 07:41:32 PM
I think it’ll be 3 or 4 nil to the Aussies I’m afraid.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 06, 2021, 07:48:07 PM
Post by: simboy on December 06, 2021, 09:00:38 PM
A batting line up of Harris, Warner, Labuschagne, Smith and Khawaja looks a better than one we can name.
We have a better all round option, although massively undercooked, in Stokes and Buttler is a better bet than Carey. So there are some positives.
I hope I’m wrong and Hamid, Burns, Malan all rip it up. We will see.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 06, 2021, 09:08:30 PM
Marnus and Smith are incredibly strong. But Warner has big question marks now, Harris has never shown it at Test level, and Khawaja isn’t playing. If you get into Smith and Marnus early they’re potentially brittle.
I do think it’s a mistake if we pick Bairstow over Pope though.
Post by: Gareth on December 06, 2021, 10:57:06 PM
Post by: Rory on December 06, 2021, 11:03:43 PM
Post by: OzVilla on December 07, 2021, 06:19:47 AM
I've less confidence in this England side than any other that's toured while I've been over here. Make no mistake, Australia are no where near as good as previous Aussie sides but I think they'll be too strong for us. We really needed Archer here to hit them with real pace. Plus we wont score enough runs.
I've tickets for day 3 though, the State borders are still closed so it'll be just Queenslanders and local Poms, never fear though, that twat Warner will still be getting it.
Post by: Gareth on December 07, 2021, 08:18:28 AM
It’s frustrating because they are no great shakes either
For England to win it needs Hameed / Malan or Pope to really establish themselves as a test player to support Root & Stokes…Burns will get worked over & will be an achievement if he gets to 50 in any knock
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 07, 2021, 09:54:34 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 07, 2021, 10:17:58 AM
Post by: paul_e on December 07, 2021, 10:48:22 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 07, 2021, 01:04:35 PM
If the pitch is green (as is being suggested) then Woakes could play a massive part.
If he's going to play, then he has to open the bowling for me and try and get the most out of the new ball. He will also firm up the lower batting order.
Think he might well play as we need him at number 8, but can see them including Broad and Robinson with Wood missing out, meaning they haven't really learnt any lessons from the last couple of trips down there.
Post by: simboy on December 07, 2021, 01:58:19 PM
The main wicket takers over the last three victory down under series were ...
1970/71 - Snow and Underwood
1978/79 - Willis, Lever and Hendrick with Embury chipping in
1985/86 - Small, Dilley and Botham with Edmonds taking wickets [ can't bat, can't bowl, can't field tour]
2010/11 - Finn, Tremlett/Bresnan and Anderson with Swann on backing vocals
bearing in mind the Aussies in 85/86 were a poor side with really only Border and Jones as a threat batting-wise relying on Bruce Reid and Steve Waugh as their big wicket takers we still only won 2-1, although we were perhaps a side in decline.
Our attack as it stands doesn't really match any of the above, although Snow was a relative unknown [as was Willis in 70/71] at the time of selection.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 07, 2021, 03:09:22 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 04:47:55 PM
Post by: simboy on December 07, 2021, 05:08:18 PM
I’d play Wood as a point of difference, but I think swing/seam could play a bigger part than normal in this series. Particularly if there ends up being two pink ball games. Key bit for us is getting big runs, if we don’t do that it won’t matter who we pick.
Let’s hope you’re right and the Kookaburra swings under the lights. Wasn’t the last day nighter in Oz when India got rolled for 36?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 07, 2021, 05:19:22 PM
I've absolutely no confidence in our batting whatsoever, and think we'll get smashed.
This. Can't believe people are convincing themselves we've got a chance.
Post by: LeeB on December 07, 2021, 05:23:44 PM
I've absolutely no confidence in our batting whatsoever, and think we'll get smashed.
This. Can't believe people are convincing themselves we've got a chance.
The attack looks brittle too. Talented, but brittle.
Post by: Rory on December 07, 2021, 05:39:06 PM
I've absolutely no confidence in our batting whatsoever, and think we'll get smashed.
This. Can't believe people are convincing themselves we've got a chance.
I think it's more hoping that we can put up a fight, unlike '13-'14 and '17-'18, which were just embarrassing.
A 3-1 loss, maybe, with the outcome still in the balance going to Sydney. Rather than a humiliating procession.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 07, 2021, 06:06:07 PM
- we’re better than we were in 2017 - Stokes is key there.
- Australia, as strong as their attack is, are weaker than they were in 2017.
- They’ve lost at home twice in the last couple of years.
- The weather is a bit like it was in 2010 and it does work in our favour a bit.
- There might be two pink ball Tests which makes it more balanced.
- Perth is gone and that’s a guaranteed loss.
We might well still lose, but I think there is a small chance.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 07, 2021, 11:29:11 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 07, 2021, 11:33:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 07, 2021, 11:34:48 PM
Post by: Rory on December 07, 2021, 11:34:49 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 07, 2021, 11:38:28 PM
Post by: TonyD on December 07, 2021, 11:48:05 PM
Post by: Rory on December 07, 2021, 11:53:33 PM
Shit. It’s not on NowTV!!! Bloody BT Sport
Yeah, BT Sport was pitched as a good thing, 'breaking the monopoly'. Instead it's a duopoly and you now have to pay for both BT and Sky, so it costs double what it was when it was a monopoly!
Post by: rjp on December 07, 2021, 11:55:57 PM
Post by: TonyD on December 07, 2021, 11:59:26 PM
Post by: TonyD on December 08, 2021, 12:02:54 AM
You couldn’t write it.
Duck.
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2021, 12:03:23 AM
Post by: john e on December 08, 2021, 12:04:03 AM
Post by: Rory on December 08, 2021, 12:05:27 AM
Post by: Nev on December 08, 2021, 12:13:05 AM
Great.
On BT Sport for good measure.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 08, 2021, 12:21:36 AM
Post by: john e on December 08, 2021, 12:26:55 AM
Not good enough with the bat to make the runs
Not good enough with the ball to take enough wickets
= no chance
Post by: john e on December 08, 2021, 12:28:21 AM
‘This aged well’
Post by: Villafirst on December 08, 2021, 12:33:19 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 08, 2021, 12:38:15 AM
I said to friends that we'd be around 75/6 at lunch. We are going to have to bat out of our skins now to get 75 in total this innings.
Post by: Gareth on December 08, 2021, 12:41:02 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 08, 2021, 12:44:47 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 08, 2021, 12:50:55 AM
Questionable decision to bat first and then the worst start possible with Burns getting bowled first ball of the series by a leg stump half volley. Hate to be pessimistic, but think the tone for the series is already set.
The series will be 5-0 unless weather intervenes. That's been blatantly obvious for ages.
Post by: OzVilla on December 08, 2021, 01:01:51 AM
Poor technique and absolutely no idea where his stumps are.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 08, 2021, 01:10:11 AM
Burns in particular is a dreadfully poor batsman at this level to play the number of Test's that he has.
Poor technique and absolutely no idea where his stumps are.
The position of his front foot was bizarre.
Stokes gone now. 29-4.
Post by: Gareth on December 08, 2021, 01:15:29 AM
Burns in particular is a dreadfully poor batsman at this level to play the number of Test's that he has.He got a free pass in the summer when the media focus was on getting Sibley out of the team…..
Poor technique and absolutely no idea where his stumps are.
The cupboard is pretty bare but maybe Bairstow opens with Hameed next game.
Pretty short odds that Woakes will be top scorer in this innings now
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2021, 01:25:38 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 08, 2021, 02:04:17 AM
Night night.
Post by: OzVilla on December 08, 2021, 04:52:02 AM
If you're still not choosing to bowl in those circumstance's then you'll never bowl 1st in your life. Utterly mental decision that never looked like working. Like Nasser Hussain on 02 but in reverse.
Post by: Proposition Joe on December 08, 2021, 06:21:10 AM
Post by: Havencheese on December 08, 2021, 06:39:24 AM
Australia have to bat on this deck too, a green top. The more that ball ends up over the rope though, the ball will carve up pretty quickly and that attack will get no benefit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2021, 07:01:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2021, 07:15:10 AM
Post by: Nev on December 08, 2021, 07:25:58 AM
Back to TMS for me.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2021, 07:49:47 AM
Got to say the management and preparation of the Test side, and the first class game, has been piss poor for a few years now.
Post by: Gareth on December 08, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2021, 08:03:01 AM
Post by: bilsim on December 08, 2021, 08:22:20 AM
I fully expected to wake up to a headline of "Woeful England crumble against Australia" and here we are... It's just boring at this point.
Post by: LeeB on December 08, 2021, 10:08:06 AM
The frustration is that Australia aren’t all that. They’ve got some excellent players, and a very good attack, but they’re vulnerable. But if you get skittled for nothing then there’s just no opportunity to expose those vulnerabilities.
Got to say the management and preparation of the Test side, and the first class game, has been piss poor for a few years now.
It's alright, we've got two Yorkshiremen in charge of the test team, what could go wrong?
Post by: Villafirst on December 08, 2021, 10:36:24 AM
Post by: Drummond on December 08, 2021, 12:41:27 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on December 08, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 08, 2021, 01:13:31 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 08, 2021, 01:41:04 PM
Listened to it on the radio, i kept falling asleep and waking up to different batsmen at the crease. I was thinking I would be waking up to a disastrous first inning ls score, but 147 is a pretty good score for this England team isn't it? It's more than they usually get.
Yep, gave up on it when Stokes got out and was fully expecting to wake up to the news that we had been bowled out for 70 or 80 odd.
Still can't quite understand the decision to bat first when conditions were so favourable for bowlers and our batting line up is as fragile as it is.
Post by: simboy on December 08, 2021, 02:05:51 PM
The decision to drop Broad is strange and may have influenced the decision to bat first? Clearly Stokes isn't up to bowling 15 overs in a day or I suspect Robinson or Woakes would have missed out. Surely they cannot be playing Robinson for his ability to bat better than Broad?? Be interesting to see when Leach bowls.
Does anyone have an idea what Burns was doing?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2021, 02:20:21 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on December 08, 2021, 04:53:48 PM
When BT have cricket TV coverage (as with when TalkSport have radio) it makes it clear just how good TMS and Sky's commentators are
Hard disagree on TalkSport as far as their cricket coverage goes. I thought they were much better than what TMS has now become (a pastiche of its old self).
Can't speak for this series as the only audio stream i can find that broadcasts here is ABC Grandstand. Even more Jim Maxwell than you guys have to put up with on TMS.
Post by: Steve67 on December 08, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
Post by: Rory on December 08, 2021, 07:48:18 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 08, 2021, 07:51:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2021, 07:54:21 PM
Post by: Beard82 on December 08, 2021, 07:58:57 PM
I think the one thing they can’t really be criticised for is being undercooked. That’s not their fault, but it does make it strange that we chose to bat first given how undercooked we were and the conditions we were presented with.My dad always says - never judge until both sides have batted, might look quite different this time tomorrow
As you say - undercooked is a given.
I would have liked to have seen Broad in the line up
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2021, 08:07:36 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2021, 10:19:18 PM
FFS Joe you can not be batting on this morning at Gabba😡Thanks Joe.
Post by: Rory on December 08, 2021, 10:28:38 PM
FFS Joe you can not be batting on this morning at Gabba😡Thanks Joe.
It's your fault for jinxing us! We were on for 600 until you got involved 😉
Post by: olaftab on December 08, 2021, 11:09:35 PM
Post by: Rory on December 08, 2021, 11:22:25 PM
This is where Archer is such a huge miss. The Aussies didn't like facing him in 2019, and with the extra bounce, you think he'd have the pace to at least unsettle them and give us a chance.
Wood is fast and a very good bowler, but does he have that same fear factor?
Post by: Rory on December 09, 2021, 12:28:34 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 09, 2021, 01:59:21 AM
Post by: Rory on December 09, 2021, 02:00:25 AM
This is looking very ominous now.
Yeah, getting painful. It's got that 1990s feel about it.
Post by: Rory on December 09, 2021, 02:05:13 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 02:52:24 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 02:55:00 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 03:14:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 03:17:55 AM
Post by: OzVilla on December 09, 2021, 05:53:04 AM
And Rory Burns needs to be dropped off on a lonely road in the outback somewhere.
Post by: Proposition Joe on December 09, 2021, 06:27:26 AM
Aussies have enough in the bank already to potentially win by an innings.
Post by: OzVilla on December 09, 2021, 06:42:14 AM
The game is done and dusted though now. Going tomorrow and taken out insurance of finding a venue for a post day Curry afterwards to cheer us up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 06:59:45 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 07:36:36 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 09, 2021, 09:12:36 AM
Aussies have enough in the bank already to potentially win by an innings.
I don't think there's any doubt about it at all. If we can last past tea tomorrow it will represent something of a triumph for this England team.
Post by: Lsvilla on December 09, 2021, 09:35:04 AM
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2021, 10:10:00 AM
Burns shouldn’t be anywhere near the slip cordon. His ratio of drops to catches must be up there with the worst of any England side.
He's making me glad my name is spelt the other way.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 09, 2021, 10:20:28 AM
This is looking very ominous now.
The concerns many had going into it have been exposed after just two days. The top order is very fragile and was blown away yesterday and although the seamers did well on the whole, Leach got absolutely hammered.
Post by: Rory on December 09, 2021, 10:23:10 AM
Burns shouldn’t be anywhere near the slip cordon. His ratio of drops to catches must be up there with the worst of any England side.
He's making me glad my name is spelt the other way.
Boourns?
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2021, 10:39:31 AM
https://twitter.com/johnbyrne2 (https://twitter.com/johnbyrne2)
Post by: Rory on December 09, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
Like this fella, but with the 's'
https://twitter.com/johnbyrne2 (https://twitter.com/johnbyrne2)
Think yourself lucky. My first name is spelt exactly the same as his.
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2021, 10:58:28 AM
Because I don't see the situation improving over the next 40 days or so.
Post by: Rory on December 09, 2021, 11:04:35 AM
Insert an 'a' into your name, and then claim it's always been that way and it's just everyone else that gets it wrong.
Because I don't see the situation improving over the next 40 days or so.
Good idea!
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 09, 2021, 11:15:23 AM
The late 70's, early 80's even saw me with a season ticket for Warwickshire.
Are Australia that good or are we just that bad?
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2021, 11:22:45 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 09, 2021, 11:37:35 AM
We're eternally 'that bad', punctuated occasionally by an individual or two that raises us for a brief period.Looking at some of our horrendous batting on day one it seems as if the days of occupying the crease at the least are long gone in favour of the shorter versions of the game.
I say bring back Davis Steele and Chris Tavare'!
Post by: Proposition Joe on December 09, 2021, 11:54:25 AM
Stokes being injured is a massive blow.
Stokes being injured is also a massive "I am Jack's complete lack of surprise".
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 11:55:12 AM
Ive dropped out of following cricket in the main now but I used to be well into cricket when I was younger.
The late 70's, early 80's even saw me with a season ticket for Warwickshire.
Are Australia that good or are we just that bad?
One day side we’re very good. But we’ve totally lost the plot with Test cricket - some structural issues with a marginalisation of first class cricket and also just some poor management.
In the main we still bring through good seam bowlers - as evidenced today. Spin is weaker, although I don’t think Leach is as bad as the figures suggest today. Main problems are batting is really weak and heavily reliant on one or two quality players getting big runs. The fielding is bad, catching particularly - we are one of the lowest performing fielding sides in the Test game.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 09, 2021, 12:03:56 PM
So we've basically neglected the longer form of the game.Ive dropped out of following cricket in the main now but I used to be well into cricket when I was younger.
The late 70's, early 80's even saw me with a season ticket for Warwickshire.
Are Australia that good or are we just that bad?
One day side we’re very good. But we’ve totally lost the plot with Test cricket - some structural issues with a marginalisation of first class cricket and also just some poor management.
In the main we still bring through good seam bowlers - as evidenced today. Spin is weaker, although I don’t think Leach is as bad as the figures suggest today. Main problems are batting is really weak and heavily reliant on one or two quality players getting big runs. The fielding is bad, catching particularly - we are one of the lowest performing fielding sides in the Test game.
There seems to be plenty of evidence around to back that up.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 01:47:01 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 09, 2021, 04:01:46 PM
So we've basically neglected the longer form of the game.Ive dropped out of following cricket in the main now but I used to be well into cricket when I was younger.
The late 70's, early 80's even saw me with a season ticket for Warwickshire.
Are Australia that good or are we just that bad?
One day side we’re very good. But we’ve totally lost the plot with Test cricket - some structural issues with a marginalisation of first class cricket and also just some poor management.
In the main we still bring through good seam bowlers - as evidenced today. Spin is weaker, although I don’t think Leach is as bad as the figures suggest today. Main problems are batting is really weak and heavily reliant on one or two quality players getting big runs. The fielding is bad, catching particularly - we are one of the lowest performing fielding sides in the Test game.
There seems to be plenty of evidence around to back that up.
Domestically we predominantly play 4 day cricket in spring & autumn to book end the ECBs money machine of Blast & Hundred so it’s hardly surprising that young batsmen don’t exactly flourish & building an innings seems to be a forgotten art. Oh for a Cook, Strauss, Bell, Trott etc to give Root some support
Post by: Rory on December 09, 2021, 04:18:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2021, 08:06:16 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 10, 2021, 12:43:02 AM
Will we get past day 3 in the opening Test Match?
There's always hope.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 10, 2021, 01:25:20 AM
Post by: Rory on December 10, 2021, 01:42:33 AM
Either way, bat overs, not runs or time.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 10, 2021, 03:36:37 AM
Post by: bilsim on December 10, 2021, 07:03:55 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 10, 2021, 07:36:33 AM
Post by: Nev on December 10, 2021, 07:44:58 AM
A strong finish will perhaps give us heart for what lies ahead.
Post by: JD on December 10, 2021, 07:45:10 AM
Next test Jimmy will be back.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 10, 2021, 08:00:53 AM
Post by: Beard82 on December 10, 2021, 08:18:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 10, 2021, 08:40:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 10, 2021, 08:46:59 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on December 10, 2021, 09:00:46 AM
fingers crossed for the same result.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 10, 2021, 09:01:23 AM
I'm not sure what we'd do without Joe Root though.
Post by: olaftab on December 10, 2021, 09:05:56 AM
this Test reminds me of I think 2010 where we came back to draw the 1st Test...That would be nice but I think the match will end tonight with Aussies knocking off circa 100 runs they will need when England are done. However it’s a good sign that England are showing some resilience.
fingers crossed for the same result.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: simboy on December 10, 2021, 09:12:59 AM
Hopefully Root and Malan can start well tomorrow, our middle order can fire and we can at least make it a decent total to get fourth up. We can see if the Aussies can handle the pressure … hope against hope they’re chasing 175+ … I know, just as likely to lose by an inning still.
I suppose we would have to bat to lunch on day five to get out with a draw. I cannot see that happening. The first two sessions of the game effectively decided the game, but hope springs eternal, even with Rory Burns first up.
Post by: Drummond on December 10, 2021, 09:31:26 AM
Insert an 'a' into your name, and then claim it's always been that way and it's just everyone else that gets it wrong.
Because I don't see the situation improving over the next 40 days or so.
Good idea!
Hi Roray! Feels slightly Graham Norton like when I say it.
Post by: Drummond on December 10, 2021, 09:34:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 10, 2021, 10:08:45 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 10, 2021, 10:10:12 AM
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Agree Paul and we probably need Root and Malan to go big tomorrow. Probably going to need to bat the best part of four sessions to get a result.
Post by: paul_e on December 10, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Agree Paul and we probably need Root and Malan to go big tomorrow. Probably going to need to bat the best part of four sessions to get a result.
We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets just focus on little wins:
No wickets down in the first 20 minutes = win
Get the runs to make then bat again = win
Take the match to day 5 = win
Give the bowlers some runs to work with = win
We are still likely to lose the test so now the focus has to be on putting down some foundations for the rest of the series.
What I'd pesonally like to see is Root, Malan nd Pope put enough on the boards that Stokes and Buttler can come in and have a bit of a go at their bowlers, try to put a bit of fear into them about what our middle order can do.
Post by: bilsim on December 10, 2021, 11:30:06 AM
That being said, today has shown that it's a good surface that usually gets easier to bat on as the match reaches day 4 and 5 and that with a bit of grit and application, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to dig in. If Stokes/Buttler can come in tomorrow with a lead of 60 odd, a bit of aggression from the two of them and all of a sudden things look a lot healthier.
All being said, I think tomorrow is the critical day of this test match because weather will be a big factor on day 5. If we can get to tea tomorrow with a 150+ lead and a couple of wickets still in hand, I think we can prevent an Australian victory.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 10, 2021, 12:22:14 PM
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Agree Paul and we probably need Root and Malan to go big tomorrow. Probably going to need to bat the best part of four sessions to get a result.
We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets just focus on little wins:
No wickets down in the first 20 minutes = win
Get the runs to make then bat again = win
Take the match to day 5 = win
Give the bowlers some runs to work with = win
We are still likely to lose the test so now the focus has to be on putting down some foundations for the rest of the series.
What I'd pesonally like to see is Root, Malan nd Pope put enough on the boards that Stokes and Buttler can come in and have a bit of a go at their bowlers, try to put a bit of fear into them about what our middle order can do.
Nah, I'm getting fully carried away Paul. Root and Malan to give us a 200+ lead, then Stokes and Butter to come in and smash it to all parts!
Reality is though, we are still very much up against it, but the partnership between Root and Malan has at least given us a glimmer of hope of getting something out of the game.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 10, 2021, 01:12:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 10, 2021, 03:04:28 PM
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Agree Paul and we probably need Root and Malan to go big tomorrow. Probably going to need to bat the best part of four sessions to get a result.
We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets just focus on little wins:
No wickets down in the first 20 minutes = win
Get the runs to make then bat again = win
Take the match to day 5 = win
Give the bowlers some runs to work with = win
We are still likely to lose the test so now the focus has to be on putting down some foundations for the rest of the series.
What I'd pesonally like to see is Root, Malan nd Pope put enough on the boards that Stokes and Buttler can come in and have a bit of a go at their bowlers, try to put a bit of fear into them about what our middle order can do.
Nah, I'm getting fully carried away Paul. Root and Malan to give us a 200+ lead, then Stokes and Butter to come in and smash it to all parts!
Reality is though, we are still very much up against it, but the partnership between Root and Malan has at least given us a glimmer of hope of getting something out of the game.
I went to bed on tuesday night, having seen us decide to bat and lose 2 wickets in the first 10 minutes or so, expecting the test would be over before the weekend so we're already doing better than I expected and that glimmer is very important for the series. If we get the approach right tonight and, at the least, go on to a battling defeat then that'll be huge after that first morning.
Post by: Gareth on December 10, 2021, 03:26:34 PM
Big hundred for Root would be a good also
Stokes needs time in the middle after his break particularly if his knee ends up reducing his bowling capacity in rest of series.
Would be lovely to wake up in the morning to us still batting & even better if no more than 5 down :-)
Post by: olaftab on December 10, 2021, 06:39:34 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 10, 2021, 11:27:22 PM
Post by: Rory on December 10, 2021, 11:51:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 11, 2021, 12:02:47 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 11, 2021, 12:03:42 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 11, 2021, 12:10:20 AM
How in the name of god has Lyon got 400 test wickets? Don't get me wrong, he's a good bowler, but 400 wickets?!
He’s better than ‘good’, but he’s also played 101 tests
Post by: Risso on December 11, 2021, 12:11:04 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 11, 2021, 12:13:50 AM
Post by: Risso on December 11, 2021, 12:18:26 AM
How in the name of god has Lyon got 400 test wickets? Don't get me wrong, he's a good bowler, but 400 wickets?!
He’s better than ‘good’, but he’s also played 101 tests
I'd guess that a quarter of those are probably against England.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 11, 2021, 12:22:08 AM
Post by: Rory on December 11, 2021, 12:43:04 AM
How in the name of god has Lyon got 400 test wickets? Don't get me wrong, he's a good bowler, but 400 wickets?!
He’s better than ‘good’, but he’s also played 101 tests
I don't think he is better than good, to be perfectly honest. Good isn't an insult, he's a good test bowler for Australia, which automatically makes him one of the top 5-10 in the world.
But 400 wickets is unbelievable for someone who isn't as good as spinners Warne kept out of the Aussie team.
Post by: olaftab on December 11, 2021, 12:55:22 AM
Oh well. Don't suppose there is any chance of that bad weather forecast for tomorrow arriving pretty sharpish and lasting for a couple of days?There is hope if it can go to Sunday but a long shot.
(https://i.ibb.co/2ZpmYgq/2466832-E-1-DCF-458-C-AB60-71-B51-A1-B403-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2ZpmYgq)
Post by: olaftab on December 11, 2021, 01:14:00 AM
Post by: Rory on December 11, 2021, 01:31:12 AM
We're meandering towards 300, which is a respectable second innings total. But we dropped the ball with 147 in the first.
I know it's tough, but if you have a top order that cannot fucking bat, only put them in when it's a road, not when it's 50/50.
Post by: tony scott on December 11, 2021, 04:15:55 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 11, 2021, 06:33:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 11, 2021, 07:58:33 AM
Post by: simboy on December 11, 2021, 08:12:09 AM
Out played Root and Malan good innings ,Root is not the man to captain England, “but who else is there ?” is the cry. Why not try the Irish guy from the T20.
I agree with the first part, Root isn’t a good captain. I don’t agree with the second part, Morgan wouldn’t make a good test captain now. It would be a backward step.
James Vince captains his county side as does Rory Burns. Neither are particularly dynamic and cannot (should not?) hold their place in the side.
Ben Stokes is the obvious choice and did well over the summer but probably wouldn’t want it. Buttler isn’t the best keeper in the squad. So you’re left with? Woakes? Malan? Pope?
That’s a problem with prioritising the white ball money making game and marginalising the red ball, there’s very little to choose from when it all goes wrong … w
Post by: Risso on December 11, 2021, 09:02:49 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 11, 2021, 10:19:56 AM
So over the duration of this test match we've formed one decent partnership of note out of twenty opportunities.
Thats dreadful.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 11, 2021, 12:18:30 PM
Post by: nigel on December 12, 2021, 10:16:04 AM
“England have a notoriously poor record at The Gabba, and have only won two test matches at the ground since the end of the Second World War. Many of their defeats have been heavy and only seven England players have scored centuries at the ground.”
Post by: PGW on December 13, 2021, 12:42:55 PM
Hopefully Warners bruised ribs will keep him out to.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 13, 2021, 12:48:35 PM
Post by: PGW on December 13, 2021, 12:54:02 PM
Helps a bit but Richardson has been taking wickets for fun. Our batting unit has to find a way of getting big runs.That's the problem, we're currently such a mess on and off the field that i will clutch at any straw however small. I think Richardson is quality.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 13, 2021, 02:55:36 PM
Sibley - very one paced with an odd technique. Good bowlers worked him out.
Crawley - talent but his technique is too loose. Doesn’t appear to have the ability to get “gritty” runs when things aren’t going his way.
Pope - loads of talent and has shown glimpses, but hasn’t kicked on anywhere near to the level you’d expect him to be. Looks very frenetic at the moment.
Now I don’t know if it’s the specific players, the environment around the England squad, or a bit of both. But it’s hard to deny that recently batsmen who come into the side don’t improve, and if anything go backwards.
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 15, 2021, 01:21:41 AM
Remember when we used to sign players who started off well then got worse and worse as time went on? Lambert was a master of this.
Under Deano, that changed and I'm sure that will also be the case with Gerrard.
Who are the improved England batsmen since Silverwood became head coach?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 15, 2021, 08:16:37 AM
Post by: Villafirst on December 15, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 15, 2021, 10:49:07 PM
Sean bowling doesn’t really worry me, in Anderson / Broad / Woakes / Robinson / Stokes & Wood we have lots of good options to mix and match. Spin is a huge worry, Leach on evidence of first test was a playing spectator….is he liable to find a pitch this series that he can contribute on or is it better to let Root be the spin option?
Burns & Pope owe runs big time but Bairstow / Lawrence & Crawley waiting in the wings and no games to practice in for them isn’t exactly pressure on those failing in the side.
Post by: JD on December 16, 2021, 03:09:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 04:29:35 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 04:31:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 04:37:56 AM
Post by: JD on December 16, 2021, 04:43:44 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 16, 2021, 05:31:06 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 07:23:53 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 16, 2021, 07:29:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 07:37:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 07:46:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 08:34:32 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 16, 2021, 08:35:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 08:35:41 AM
Post by: tony scott on December 16, 2021, 08:52:41 AM
Post by: LeeB on December 16, 2021, 11:56:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 12:08:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 12:10:15 PM
Post by: Monty on December 16, 2021, 12:36:00 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on December 16, 2021, 12:41:47 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 16, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
Foakes got a taste but soon sent away for not being enough with the bat & likes of Cox never got a look in. Buttler & Bairstow are decent keepers at best
Post by: LeeB on December 16, 2021, 01:21:07 PM
Odd selection, weird tactics, another first day and another Test effectively conceded by stumps. Surely both Silverwood and Root won't survive this if it goes as it likely will.
This England team needs a complete de-yorkshirefication.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 01:33:34 PM
They’ve clearly got wrapped up in thinking about what the ball might do under lights and that’s dictated their selection. They then forgotten/missed the fact that you need to take wickets at other points of the day. Their tactics were so negative they just allowed Australia to tire us out.
It’s been a bad day, again, in terms of performance. Dropping Labuschagne twice is unforgivable.
I fear and suspect this one paced attack will be battered into the dirt and we’ll come out and be bombed out for less than 200.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2021, 01:36:54 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 16, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
It feels like they have a bit of a paradoxical mix overthinking things, but with a lack of foresight.
They’ve clearly got wrapped up in thinking about what the ball might do under lights and that’s dictated their selection. They then forgotten/missed the fact that you need to take wickets at other points of the day. Their tactics were so negative they just allowed Australia to tire us out.
It’s been a bad day, again, in terms of performance. Dropping Labuschagne twice is unforgivable.
I fear and suspect this one paced attack will be battered into the dirt and we’ll come out and be bombed out for less than 200.
I'm not a betting man, but I'm tempted to put money on something like that scenario as it feels like buying money.
Post by: KevinGage on December 16, 2021, 08:00:17 PM
Or perhaps rotate it every 12 years, give Scotland and Ireland the chance to enjoy 37 degree heat and all the fun usually associated with these drubbings.
Post by: Steve67 on December 16, 2021, 08:29:53 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 16, 2021, 11:20:28 PM
It feels like they have a bit of a paradoxical mix overthinking things, but with a lack of foresight.
They’ve clearly got wrapped up in thinking about what the ball might do under lights and that’s dictated their selection. They then forgotten/missed the fact that you need to take wickets at other points of the day. Their tactics were so negative they just allowed Australia to tire us out.
It’s been a bad day, again, in terms of performance. Dropping Labuschagne twice is unforgivable.
I fear and suspect this one paced attack will be battered into the dirt and we’ll come out and be bombed out for less than 200.
Yeah, can see how this is going to play out. Pummelled for most of tomorrow with Smith grinding us into the dirt and then put in for a couple of hours under the lights and it will be carnage.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 16, 2021, 11:22:17 PM
Should maybe look at England having to qualify for future Ashes tours down under.
Or perhaps rotate it every 12 years, give Scotland and Ireland the chance to enjoy 37 degree heat and all the fun usually associated with these drubbings.
Or maybe the ECB stop chasing money and put some time and effort into the longer format of the game. Proper preparation for test series would be a start.
Post by: tony scott on December 17, 2021, 02:23:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 07:51:03 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 08:23:20 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 17, 2021, 08:37:43 AM
Particularly with the batsmen there is so little red ball county cricket played in June / July / August you end up picking players like Crawley / Lawrence to tour with no intention to pick them to play….a proper summer of county cricket you might have seen others come to the fore.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 08:40:20 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 17, 2021, 09:29:50 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 09:31:10 AM
Post by: Richard E on December 17, 2021, 09:32:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 09:43:16 AM
Post by: LeeB on December 17, 2021, 09:52:42 AM
At best we’ll be 50-3.
I'm going for 50-4 Paul, and that's me being optimistic.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 09:54:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 09:55:45 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on December 17, 2021, 10:08:54 AM
We have a real problem, one of many I grant you, with always letting the opposition tail batter us around.
Often because we set funky fields and bowl short rather than line and length at them
Post by: UK Redsox on December 17, 2021, 10:10:02 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 10:11:12 AM
Post by: Nev on December 17, 2021, 10:11:35 AM
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2021, 10:17:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 10:22:14 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 17, 2021, 10:31:27 AM
You didn't have to be Nostrafeckingdamaus to see this happening
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 10:32:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 10:35:51 AM
Post by: Risso on December 17, 2021, 10:42:43 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 17, 2021, 10:43:01 AM
Post by: LeeB on December 17, 2021, 10:49:11 AM
That's quite the opening pair we've got there.
It's like we actively recruit the least imposing, intimidating batsmen we can find. The cricketing equivalent of sending Charles Hawtrey and Kennith Williams as your opening pair.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 17, 2021, 10:49:49 AM
Has there ever been a worse England Test Match side?
Post by: Bully2345 on December 17, 2021, 11:16:44 AM
If we somehow put a partnership together and get to the evening session at 200-3 tomorrow, Australia will get another new ball under the lights and it'll be jenga again.
Really depressing
Post by: paul_e on December 17, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
We're already at the point, after 2 days, where our only priority is to avoid the follow-on so we have a chance of getting the draw and dodging a whitewash in the series, fucking woeful. Root won't be England captain after this series unless there's the most dramatic turnaround ever and he must know that or is the bubble so thick that they can't see how badly they're letting the country down tight now?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 17, 2021, 12:34:25 PM
Woakes has not bowled particularly well these first two games. Let’s be honest it’s his batting keeping him in the side.
Simply haven't learnt lessons from previous tours. If Woakes is going to play on those conditions, he has to open the bowling. If he's not going to open the bowling, then he shouldn't play as he gets hammered when he comes on when the ball isn't doing anything.
Still think we would have struggled as our top order just can't perform, but we really needed Archer and Stone as options for this series.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 01:57:22 PM
It’s all a shambles though, yet again. This series will lead to a blood letting. Root is a brilliant player, our only consistent quality batter. He’s not a great captain, but I don’t see a viable alternative. Stokes is probably it, but I’m not sure you’d want to add more to his workload. There’s literally no one else who is a definite starter.
Silverwood has had a horrible reign - not all his fault, but my god our poor planning and decision making has to come back to him. Also the decision to combine the coach and selector role to “create more accountability” is utterly brainless. There’s a fundamental conflict in the two roles and they need to be separate.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 17, 2021, 02:37:47 PM
Players off
Before your time I know but this is what came to mind for me.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 17, 2021, 03:03:59 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 17, 2021, 03:27:32 PM
How young do you think I am ?
After thinking Monty was in his 60s I've decided to err on the side of caution going forward.
Post by: Rory on December 17, 2021, 03:45:56 PM
How young do you think I am ?
After thinking Monty was in his 60s I've decided to err on the side of caution going forward.
To be fair, that's his own fault for having that username and for posting in full sentences and paragraphs and whatnot. Bloody boffin.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 17, 2021, 04:01:27 PM
Post by: Richard E on December 17, 2021, 04:03:28 PM
So by the time I wake up tomorrow just over session will have been played. I’m going to be generous and suspect we’ll be 8 down rather than all out by that point.
You could be right, but unfortunately it will be 8 down in our second innings, following on.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 17, 2021, 04:53:52 PM
Thing is you just have to be better than that. You can’t only be useful if opening the bowling, you have to at least be able to bowl tight in the middle overs.
It’s all a shambles though, yet again. This series will lead to a blood letting. Root is a brilliant player, our only consistent quality batter. He’s not a great captain, but I don’t see a viable alternative. Stokes is probably it, but I’m not sure you’d want to add more to his workload. There’s literally no one else who is a definite starter.
Silverwood has had a horrible reign - not all his fault, but my god our poor planning and decision making has to come back to him. Also the decision to combine the coach and selector role to “create more accountability” is utterly brainless. There’s a fundamental conflict in the two roles and they need to be separate.
Agree Paul and in our conditions he does just that. On his previous trips to Australia he has been cannon fodder coming on 2nd change when the ball isn't doing anything though.
We were absolutely pathetic on our last two series down there and this doesn't look like it is going to be any better. The paying public down there do deserve better to be totally honest.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 17, 2021, 05:14:32 PM
Even the slight delight of admiring Hameed’s rather excellent “scruffy chic” aesthetic has been obliterated.
Post by: tony scott on December 17, 2021, 07:50:18 PM
Post by: Rory on December 17, 2021, 08:07:15 PM
But seriously, I think we'd be the same, but unfortunately the Aussies travel a bit better than us so the odd test aside, we rarely give them a shellacking over here in the way they do to us over there.
Post by: LeeB on December 17, 2021, 08:16:08 PM
It's because they're savages with no sense of fair play or sporting honour.
But seriously, I think we'd be the same, but unfortunately the Aussies travel a bit better than us so the odd test aside, we rarely give them a shellacking over here in the way they do to us over there.
No, it's the first bit that's right. I've met one.
Post by: Rory on December 17, 2021, 10:26:07 PM
It's because they're savages with no sense of fair play or sporting honour.
But seriously, I think we'd be the same, but unfortunately the Aussies travel a bit better than us so the odd test aside, we rarely give them a shellacking over here in the way they do to us over there.
No, it's the first bit that's right. I've met one.
You daft racist 😉
Post by: tony scott on December 18, 2021, 06:29:06 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 07:45:24 AM
Buttler owes us a double century - I don’t want to see a pointless counter attacking 30.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 07:50:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 07:51:53 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 18, 2021, 08:07:07 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 08:07:17 AM
Post by: stubbsyandy on December 18, 2021, 08:08:08 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 18, 2021, 08:10:10 AM
Post by: tony scott on December 18, 2021, 08:25:06 AM
Post by: Villafirst on December 18, 2021, 08:48:50 AM
Post by: simboy on December 18, 2021, 08:57:58 AM
For 18 months the selectors have gone with Sibley and another to open, usually Crawley or Burns, plumping for Burns in the end.
Sibley gets criticised as he’s not scoring quick (enough or at all). He gets dropped. He’s offered a place on the A tour but refused. I can’t blame him as he lost his central contract and has been treated poorly.
Burns is out of nick. He needs cricket to be effective so the stats say. His runs last year come following decent county scores.
We pick Buttler as a keeper batsman. He’s not a test keeper. He’s cost us 80 odd in the second test. He keeps on costing us runs. Pick your best keeper. At least have him in the squad! Surely that must be Ben Foakes. He can bat a little.
It is a time for a change of the old guard. Mahmood must be a bit hacked off after a good summer in the test team.
Why isn’t Wood playing in this test? Why didn’t Broad play in the first test? It all looks pre-planned. All well and good if we had won the first test. We didn’t.
… and pick a spinner. I am not impressed with Leach, never have been. But at least he offers us something different. We have nothing to lose by letting Parkinson play. He’s different. He’s playing on Aussie pitches. If not play Bess.
It’s all just terribly familiar and awfully depressing.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 09:01:15 AM
But there needs to be a complete structural overhaul because our Test cricket has been embarrassing for too long.
Post by: manic-road on December 18, 2021, 09:24:38 AM
Buttler has been picked on potential for what he might deliver in Test cricket for so long and has very rarely delivered. It’s time to move onto Foakes who is far and away the best keeper - who knew taking catches might be important - and he can bat too.
But there needs to be a complete structural overhaul because our Test cricket has been embarrassing for too long.
Totally agree about Foakes, England need a specialist keeper which is a specialist position. Buttler has over 50 tests to his name and only two centuries.
Post by: TonyD on December 18, 2021, 10:38:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 10:50:47 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 11:04:15 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 18, 2021, 11:44:17 AM
Woakes has been really poor with the ball.
Been made the fall guy yet again.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 12:31:27 PM
Also they’ve abandoned the sound concept they had that Broad and Anderson shouldn’t both play in the side now - unless it’s incredibly favourable bowling conditions. Had they not forgotten that Broad could have played the first, Anderson the second, and they could have balanced the side better in terms of variety. Ultimately probably wouldn’t change anything, but it might have posed Australia a few more questions.
As I said before this series will results in a root and branch review, which needs to happen. It’s been a disastrous couple of years in red ball cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 02:54:02 PM
The much maligned Jack Leach at least digs in and tries.
As I say low on the list of issues, but it’s indicative of the lack of fight in our team.
Post by: Rory on December 18, 2021, 02:57:10 PM
Oh and this is probably low on the list of grumbles, but our tail is fucking hopeless. I don’t expect them to be talented, but I do expect them to try and stick in. They don’t and it’s awful.
The much maligned Jack Leach at least digs in and tries.
As I say low on the list of issues, but it’s indicative of the lack of fight in our team.
I think Jimmy's quite tenacious.
Post by: Gareth on December 18, 2021, 10:35:33 PM
Woakes has been really poor with the ball.
Been made the fall guy yet again.
Well someone had to take Moeen’s crown.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 18, 2021, 10:36:28 PM
To an extent, but he’s been poor as well. Doesn’t change the fact that it makes no difference if the batsmen can’t get more than 200/250.
Also they’ve abandoned the sound concept they had that Broad and Anderson shouldn’t both play in the side now - unless it’s incredibly favourable bowling conditions. Had they not forgotten that Broad could have played the first, Anderson the second, and they could have balanced the side better in terms of variety. Ultimately probably wouldn’t change anything, but it might have posed Australia a few more questions.
As I said before this series will results in a root and branch review, which needs to happen. It’s been a disastrous couple of years in red ball cricket.
It's happened to Woakesy and bowlers like him when we have gone there before, so I don't know why anyone would expect anything different this time.
Agree about a root and branch review, as it has been clear that there had been something wrong with the test set up for some time now. Think we are almost reaching the point we were at when Duncan Fletcher came in and we need someone like that with a clear plan and vision of how to approach test cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 10:56:17 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 18, 2021, 10:57:57 PM
I’m amazed how the Aussies really love these totally one sided match’s
Can't understand it, like everyone else here I hated that time we smashed Small Heath 5-1.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2021, 11:02:09 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 18, 2021, 11:11:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 19, 2021, 08:25:28 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 19, 2021, 08:41:31 AM
Post by: OzVilla on December 19, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
As has been said, the truly galling part of this is that this is a fairly ordinary Aussie side. I think 2006/7, 10/11 and 13/14 England sides would’ve battered this lot.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 19, 2021, 09:56:57 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 19, 2021, 10:36:15 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 19, 2021, 11:19:44 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 19, 2021, 11:31:39 AM
That’s just about that for any chance of saving the game
Post by: Gareth on December 19, 2021, 01:19:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 19, 2021, 01:49:50 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on December 19, 2021, 03:28:24 PM
But as usual, the typical Aussies are using sneaky underhand tactics like batting and bowling well, and taking their catches.
How's England supposed to compete with that?
Post by: OzVilla on December 19, 2021, 07:13:17 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2021, 12:19:20 AM
I agree on the vision for Test cricket. Silverwood’s, “we need big runs in the first innings” at a principle level is fine, but without a clear strategy it’s meaningless. Again not all his fault, but we’ve not looked like a team with a clear vision for a good while. I also get the impression we’re less than the sum of our parts. Pope is a great example - he has all the talent in the world, but who is working with him on game psychology? He looks incredibly frenetic and on edge. They either aren’t working with him, or they’re doing the wrong stuff, but either way he just doesn’t look supported.
The test set up just hasn't seemed right for a number of years now, probably dating back to the problems with Pietersen under Cook. I still have a theory that, although they have both been tremendous bowlers, Broad and Anderson are a problem in the set up and in turn Cook, Root and now Silverwood have been reluctant to challenge them.
I've always found it interesting that despite them being our best two bowlers, Morgan soon got rid of them from the ODI set up when he took over and those sides have always seemed harmonious under him. In contrast, our test team has looked a pretty unhappy camp for some time and seems to be an environment in which new players seem to struggle to settle in to.
Post by: tony scott on December 20, 2021, 03:14:01 AM
Post by: Villafirst on December 20, 2021, 04:18:33 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 07:27:09 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 07:33:20 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 20, 2021, 07:44:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 08:55:48 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 20, 2021, 09:12:26 AM
Post by: LeeB on December 20, 2021, 09:34:05 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 20, 2021, 09:43:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 09:55:38 AM
But where was that fight and application before?
Post by: simboy on December 20, 2021, 09:56:14 AM
Woakes was picked primarily for his bowling ... 1 - 149, in this Test, 2-79 in the previous test.
This Test, 2 part time spinners 5- 132. Robinson, our best bowler of seam, bowling off-breaks. a front line spinner not picked.
Burns and Hameed - highest partnership 23 in the series, 7 in this Test.
Pope 9 in total
Buttler drops Marnus on 21 who goes on to get to 95 before being dropped again by Buttler.
Not picking Broad over Leach on a green-top.
I could go on ... and on, but those are just some of the reasons why England are 2 down.
As i think Paul and others have said, there needs to be an overhaul and a decision to be taken by the EWCB. Is Test cricket important now? If so sort out the structure of the four day game, make it important again. Test matches still fill grounds here, but if England keep getting turned over by most other nations that will soon drop off again.
On to the Boxing day Test. I think Smith only averages about 105 on that ground.
Post by: Nev on December 20, 2021, 09:57:19 AM
Post by: Villafirst on December 20, 2021, 10:01:07 AM
Post by: simboy on December 20, 2021, 10:01:44 AM
Never mind, the Hundred was jolly fun wasn't it?
Like cricket ... but shiter...
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 10:20:23 AM
I'd drop Pope and put Woakes in his place to bat ! Pope's confidence is shot.
Appreciate this might be tongue in cheek, but with the best will in the world Woakes is not a Test number 6. Pope can be, but agree he looks in a bad place. Problem is they’ve got themselves into a corner. Their options are Bairstow - who hasn’t got any runs in Test cricket for about 3 years or Lawrence who was in a bad way when he was dropped. We’ve got no options that have actually made a case in the squad, instead we’ve got a load of players who are struggling/we’ve clung on to for too long.
Post by: simboy on December 20, 2021, 10:27:14 AM
I'd drop Pope and put Woakes in his place to bat ! Pope's confidence is shot.
Appreciate this might be tongue in cheek, but with the best will in the world Woakes is not a Test number 6. Pope can be, but agree he looks in a bad place. Problem is they’ve got themselves into a corner. Their options are Bairstow - who hasn’t got any runs in Test cricket for about 3 years or Lawrence who was in a bad way when he was dropped. We’ve got no options that have actually made a case in the squad, instead we’ve got a load of players who are struggling/we’ve clung on to for too long.
If he’s fit we drop Stokes down to seven, play Bairstow as keeper at 6, pick our three fittest seamers (Robinson, Broad and Woakes?) and a spinner?
Pope, Crawley or Lawrence at 5.
Look to the A team? Mahmood who’s playing big bash but is a test bowler? Vince? Again playing Big Bash and can play test cricket.
Shame we don’t have a spinner who can score test 100’s, although the way we treated Mo it’s not really a surprise.
Post by: paul_e on December 20, 2021, 10:45:43 AM
In general I agree with PaulW, the squad is full of people who've failed but that the ECB isn't quite ready to drop yet so there's no one with any sort of form from the summer to call on, and the lack of preperation gave no one chance to earn their place.
Maybe you can pull a few across from the lions but who there is in top form? Yates is a great prospect but still very raw, Bracey is similar, Bess and Norwell stood out with the ball but they still didn't bowl out the 20 wickets so the same problems as the main squad.
I agree with an earlier post about Broad and Anderson both starting, we really should be at a one or the other stage now, not least because they both bat like out and out 11s and we can't really afford to give up any runs.
The bigger problem though is that Root was only ever an average captain and in the last 12-18 months he's not even that, decisions by him and the coaching staff have played a huge part in these defeats, with both games largely gone by the end of day 1.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 10:56:34 AM
I'd drop Pope and put Woakes in his place to bat ! Pope's confidence is shot.
Appreciate this might be tongue in cheek, but with the best will in the world Woakes is not a Test number 6. Pope can be, but agree he looks in a bad place. Problem is they’ve got themselves into a corner. Their options are Bairstow - who hasn’t got any runs in Test cricket for about 3 years or Lawrence who was in a bad way when he was dropped. We’ve got no options that have actually made a case in the squad, instead we’ve got a load of players who are struggling/we’ve clung on to for too long.
If he’s fit we drop Stokes down to seven, play Bairstow as keeper at 6, pick our three fittest seamers (Robinson, Broad and Woakes?) and a spinner?
Pope, Crawley or Lawrence at 5.
Look to the A team? Mahmood who’s playing big bash but is a test bowler? Vince? Again playing Big Bash and can play test cricket.
Shame we don’t have a spinner who can score test 100’s, although the way we treated Mo it’s not really a surprise.
Why would you drop Stokes to 7 and who are you playing 5? I wouldn’t want Bairstow in the team. He’s underperformed for a long time. You’d hope Buttler has got some confidence now, so I still think he’s a better option than Bairstow.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 10:59:54 AM
Post by: paul_e on December 20, 2021, 11:27:54 AM
Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
We aren't a top side at the moment and I think we have to accept that now. The last year hasn't been great at all, but we have played the three best sides in the world at the moment, with three very strong bowling attacks. Looking at the positives, we have two top class middle order batsmen, some options at wicket keeper and still have some decent enough seam options. Malan has scored some runs at three and looks like he could be an option there for the immediate future.
Where I think we really need some planning and thought are the situations with the openers and spinners. Both are areas of real weakness and are being constantly exposed against better sides. We really need to invest some time in thinking about a proper approach for those roles and what we actually want them to do and select suitable options accordingly.
Just feel we are at a bit of a crossroads at the moment and have felt for a while now that the current international schedule just isn't sustainable. For example, after this series and the white ball games after, that really should be it and the players should be heading home for a break before the county season starts. 6 weeks of that and then into a two test series at the end of May start of June. Instead, they fly out almost immediately after Australia to the West Indies and then back home and almost straight into the packed summer schedule over here.
Over the past couple of decades, the ECB have positioned themselves as the ones who fund the game in this country and international cricket is their cash cow (along with the Hundred now). One of the main problems with governing bodies financing sport (get it with rugby as well) is that the internationals fund the whole structure, but there is only so many of them you can play. That then leaves the situation where they look to play more and more games at the detriment of the structure as a whole.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 11:41:26 AM
Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Found it - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp.
Yep really questionable, because you have a squad but essentially the back up batsmen are unselectable and they have literally no cricket to make a case for selection.
Post by: paul_e on December 20, 2021, 11:54:32 AM
Have felt down about this series so far, but listening to the post match discussions actually feel a bit more accepting of the situation now.
We aren't a top side at the moment and I think we have to accept that now. The last year hasn't been great at all, but we have played the three best sides in the world at the moment, with three very strong bowling attacks. Looking at the positives, we have two top class middle order batsmen, some options at wicket keeper and still have some decent enough seam options. Malan has scored some runs at three and looks like he could be an option there for the immediate future.
Where I think we really need some planning and thought are the situations with the openers and spinners. Both are areas of real weakness and are being constantly exposed against better sides. We really need to invest some time in thinking about a proper approach for those roles and what we actually want them to do and select suitable options accordingly.
Just feel we are at a bit of a crossroads at the moment and have felt for a while now that the current international schedule just isn't sustainable. For example, after this series and the white ball games after, that really should be it and the players should be heading home for a break before the county season starts. 6 weeks of that and then into a two test series at the end of May start of June. Instead, they fly out almost immediately after Australia to the West Indies and then back home and almost straight into the packed summer schedule over here.
Over the past couple of decades, the ECB have positioned themselves as the ones who fund the game in this country and international cricket is their cash cow (along with the Hundred now). One of the main problems with governing bodies financing sport (get it with rugby as well) is that the internationals fund the whole structure, but there is only so many of them you can play. That then leaves the situation where they look to play more and more games at the detriment of the structure as a whole.
Totally off on a tangent but I actually think rugby has quite easily the best international structure of any of the major internationl sports. They have 3 small windows of games which allow for plenty of down time in the summer, if any player goes over a set number of games for the year the RFU pay the club to give them a break. To avoid 'empty' weekends they coincide cup games with these windows as much as poassible but they also have the play offs to negate the 'fine margins' risk of international fixtures playing a major part in the season.To try to add some semblance of balance to the league they have a wage cap but then give clubs a refund on it for international players which stops it becoming a club vs country issue.
I agree with you on the scheduling of cricket being poor though, I also think we don't do anything like enough to get our batsmen (in particular) playing in other conditions, far too often you see English players in australian and indian conditions looking surprised whent he ball doesn't move the same way as it does on English wickets.
Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Found it - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp).
Yep really questionable, because you have a squad but essentially the back up batsmen are unselectable and they have literally no cricket to make a case for selection.
That's pathetic, the worst case scenario is that they should've extended the main squad by 3-4 people and given themselves options, backed themselves into a corner over this.
Post by: LeeB on December 20, 2021, 12:02:18 PM
They'd have been better off sending everyone home in September, telling them to wind down, drink and smoke till their hearts content and make sure they're at the airport on time to go in November.
Post by: simboy on December 20, 2021, 12:29:42 PM
Bearing in mind we are currently 840/40 i think strengthening the batting line up with Crawley/Lawrence and Bairstow may be an option. Unfortunately Buttler is not a Test keeper or indeed a Test batsman, Pope lacks confidence and perhaps need a couple of seasons to show his true potential.
The A team has gone home, as pointed out, which rather limits the replacements to those in the Big Bash for Covid reasons [which is Vince, Sam Curran, Mahmood and Billings who've played test cricket]. Of those Curran and Vince may hold some interest to the selectors.
Anyway , let's hope we can show more of the spirit we showed today.
Post by: Martin Carruthers on December 20, 2021, 12:34:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 01:14:17 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2021, 02:44:25 PM
Have felt down about this series so far, but listening to the post match discussions actually feel a bit more accepting of the situation now.
We aren't a top side at the moment and I think we have to accept that now. The last year hasn't been great at all, but we have played the three best sides in the world at the moment, with three very strong bowling attacks. Looking at the positives, we have two top class middle order batsmen, some options at wicket keeper and still have some decent enough seam options. Malan has scored some runs at three and looks like he could be an option there for the immediate future.
Where I think we really need some planning and thought are the situations with the openers and spinners. Both are areas of real weakness and are being constantly exposed against better sides. We really need to invest some time in thinking about a proper approach for those roles and what we actually want them to do and select suitable options accordingly.
Just feel we are at a bit of a crossroads at the moment and have felt for a while now that the current international schedule just isn't sustainable. For example, after this series and the white ball games after, that really should be it and the players should be heading home for a break before the county season starts. 6 weeks of that and then into a two test series at the end of May start of June. Instead, they fly out almost immediately after Australia to the West Indies and then back home and almost straight into the packed summer schedule over here.
Over the past couple of decades, the ECB have positioned themselves as the ones who fund the game in this country and international cricket is their cash cow (along with the Hundred now). One of the main problems with governing bodies financing sport (get it with rugby as well) is that the internationals fund the whole structure, but there is only so many of them you can play. That then leaves the situation where they look to play more and more games at the detriment of the structure as a whole.
Totally off on a tangent but I actually think rugby has quite easily the best international structure of any of the major internationl sports. They have 3 small windows of games which allow for plenty of down time in the summer, if any player goes over a set number of games for the year the RFU pay the club to give them a break. To avoid 'empty' weekends they coincide cup games with these windows as much as poassible but they also have the play offs to negate the 'fine margins' risk of international fixtures playing a major part in the season.To try to add some semblance of balance to the league they have a wage cap but then give clubs a refund on it for international players which stops it becoming a club vs country issue.
I agree with you on the scheduling of cricket being poor though, I also think we don't do anything like enough to get our batsmen (in particular) playing in other conditions, far too often you see English players in australian and indian conditions looking surprised whent he ball doesn't move the same way as it does on English wickets.Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Found it - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp).
Yep really questionable, because you have a squad but essentially the back up batsmen are unselectable and they have literally no cricket to make a case for selection.
That's pathetic, the worst case scenario is that they should've extended the main squad by 3-4 people and given themselves options, backed themselves into a corner over this.
The English rugby model does work well Paul, but there are some pretty serious financial problems for the countries where the Unions run the game and the domestic teams (ie. Ireland, New Zealand etc.). International games are the big money earners and support the whole structure in those countries.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 03:41:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 20, 2021, 04:06:12 PM
Have felt down about this series so far, but listening to the post match discussions actually feel a bit more accepting of the situation now.
We aren't a top side at the moment and I think we have to accept that now. The last year hasn't been great at all, but we have played the three best sides in the world at the moment, with three very strong bowling attacks. Looking at the positives, we have two top class middle order batsmen, some options at wicket keeper and still have some decent enough seam options. Malan has scored some runs at three and looks like he could be an option there for the immediate future.
Where I think we really need some planning and thought are the situations with the openers and spinners. Both are areas of real weakness and are being constantly exposed against better sides. We really need to invest some time in thinking about a proper approach for those roles and what we actually want them to do and select suitable options accordingly.
Just feel we are at a bit of a crossroads at the moment and have felt for a while now that the current international schedule just isn't sustainable. For example, after this series and the white ball games after, that really should be it and the players should be heading home for a break before the county season starts. 6 weeks of that and then into a two test series at the end of May start of June. Instead, they fly out almost immediately after Australia to the West Indies and then back home and almost straight into the packed summer schedule over here.
Over the past couple of decades, the ECB have positioned themselves as the ones who fund the game in this country and international cricket is their cash cow (along with the Hundred now). One of the main problems with governing bodies financing sport (get it with rugby as well) is that the internationals fund the whole structure, but there is only so many of them you can play. That then leaves the situation where they look to play more and more games at the detriment of the structure as a whole.
Totally off on a tangent but I actually think rugby has quite easily the best international structure of any of the major internationl sports. They have 3 small windows of games which allow for plenty of down time in the summer, if any player goes over a set number of games for the year the RFU pay the club to give them a break. To avoid 'empty' weekends they coincide cup games with these windows as much as poassible but they also have the play offs to negate the 'fine margins' risk of international fixtures playing a major part in the season.To try to add some semblance of balance to the league they have a wage cap but then give clubs a refund on it for international players which stops it becoming a club vs country issue.
I agree with you on the scheduling of cricket being poor though, I also think we don't do anything like enough to get our batsmen (in particular) playing in other conditions, far too often you see English players in australian and indian conditions looking surprised whent he ball doesn't move the same way as it does on English wickets.Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Found it - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp).
Yep really questionable, because you have a squad but essentially the back up batsmen are unselectable and they have literally no cricket to make a case for selection.
That's pathetic, the worst case scenario is that they should've extended the main squad by 3-4 people and given themselves options, backed themselves into a corner over this.
The English rugby model does work well Paul, but there are some pretty serious financial problems for the countries where the Unions run the game and the domestic teams (ie. Ireland, New Zealand etc.). International games are the big money earners and support the whole structure in those countries.
Indeed, I made a bad assumption that you were talking specifically about England, I agree that in other countries it's not so great (Wales is probably the worst right now).
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 20, 2021, 04:35:12 PM
Had you kept the Lions out there or kept a few Lions players with the squad you could have brought in some players with some cricket, or sent those back up players to get some cricket.
If you’d had Foakes in the squad you could easily swap Foakes for Pope (he needs to have his mentality worked on) and played Buttler as your number 6. Immediately it would look a stronger side. But we basically have no viable options. Combine that with the fact they keep selecting the wrong bowling attack and it’s a bloody mess.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2021, 04:39:39 PM
One bowler I find it very odd they left out is Saqib Mahmood. I think he’d be good in Aus.
Inexplicable for me that he wasn't given an opportunity over the summer, with a view on taking him to Australia.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2021, 07:59:23 PM
I just think Stokes is one of the best batsmen and that’s his priority role for me. He will always be the fifth bowler in the attack for me - not to say he’s not important, but I wouldn’t have him as one of four bowlers.
I would bat him at six rather than five though. Think it would free him up a bit more.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 20, 2021, 10:16:43 PM
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2021, 10:57:04 PM
I just think Stokes is one of the best batsmen and that’s his priority role for me. He will always be the fifth bowler in the attack for me - not to say he’s not important, but I wouldn’t have him as one of four bowlers.
I would bat him at six rather than five though. Think it would free him up a bit more.
These are the sorts of conversations to be having when the team as a whole is vaguely competent though. At the moment it's just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 21, 2021, 12:13:02 PM
To say we got the balance of the attack right for the pink ball test is just demonstrably wrong. They clearly picked a bowling attack solely thinking about the short evening periods under lights, not the conditions as a whole.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 21, 2021, 01:11:54 PM
The only wicket they took was gifted to them by a run-out.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 21, 2021, 02:43:51 PM
Also one pet peeve for me. A number of players call him “spoons”, which is obviously a nickname from when he was in the ranks. It just shows to me he’s too close to the players. If you’re in the head coach role you need to have some distance.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 21, 2021, 04:05:10 PM
The comments Silverwood and Root have come out with over the past couple of days suggest a set up in which criticism isn't really being taken on board.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 21, 2021, 04:26:23 PM
If he was up for it then I’d consider Eoin Mogan as coach, he’s ruthless, robust and innovative and transformed the one day side. He’s inexperienced as a coach and it’s probably too far out there to be considered. The whole shambles needs a shake up, yet again it’s harder to get out of that team than into it.
Post by: LeeB on December 21, 2021, 05:09:36 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 21, 2021, 05:20:02 PM
I have to say the comments Root made about the bowling made me raise my eyebrows on several levels, and it seems Ricky Ponting's too.
Me too. He’s made a valid point, but throwing the bowlers under the bus can’t help. And giving more ammunition to Ponting wasn’t helpful.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 21, 2021, 08:14:43 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 21, 2021, 09:29:39 PM
Post by: Steve67 on December 21, 2021, 10:24:44 PM
To be honest the whole Silverwood appointment was weird. He was the bowling coach, he got promoted to Head Coach, and then was made sole selector as well. An absolutely ludicrous overloading of responsibility, on probably the wrong person.
Also one pet peeve for me. A number of players call him “spoons”, which is obviously a nickname from when he was in the ranks. It just shows to me he’s too close to the players. If you’re in the head coach role you need to have some distance.
Couldn't agree more. We have steadily gone backwards with the current regime.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on December 22, 2021, 09:36:32 AM
Bumble has retired from commentating
He was a pretty good commentator, and a decent foil to Hussain's snarkiness, but when he slipped into "comedian" mode it became tiresome.
Post by: olaftab on December 22, 2021, 09:39:30 AM
Another op for Jof. Worrying, I hope he makes a full recovery.I am afraid that he may never operate at elite level again. That would be a sad loss of talent....best of luck but I feel for him.
Post by: Villa Lew on December 22, 2021, 11:32:37 AM
Bumble has retired from commentating
I think Sky probably asked him to step down due to his involvement in the Azeem Rafiq affair, where it appears he made a stupid, rather than racist, comment on twitter. Rafiq did not want this, for him the matter was closed as soon as Lloyd phoned him to apologise for any offence caused. Not sure he is retiring from the commentary box rumour has it might be moving to Talksport or BT.
So as well as Bumble, over the last few
Post by: LeeB on December 22, 2021, 12:23:20 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 22, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
Bumble has retired from commentating
I think Sky probably asked him to step down due to his involvement in the Azeem Rafiq affair, where it appears he made a stupid, rather than racist, comment on twitter. Rafiq did not want this, for him the matter was closed as soon as Lloyd phoned him to apologise for any offence caused. Not sure he is retiring from the commentary box rumour has it might be moving to Talksport or BT.
No context has ever been given to the comments that have been attributed to David Lloyd though. If they were part of a wider honest conversation about why certain tensions exist in grass roots cricket then that is a completely different context to the way they have been presented in isolation. There of course is the possibility that they weren't said in any such context.
Post by: paul_e on December 22, 2021, 01:56:00 PM
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Whatever they're doing if it takes Vaughan away then I'm all for it. No one stepping down/being kicked/jumping before they're pushed matters much to me because this year we've lost the best with Holding stepping down and no one was going to be a decent replacement for him.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 22, 2021, 04:14:10 PM
Does Crawley come in for either Burns or Hameed?
Do Bairstow or Lawrence come in for Pope?
Does Buttler keep his place in the side?
Bowling attack for me should be Robinson, Wood, Leach and Anderson. We've got to win really so will have to go with a longer tail and hope the top seven can finally produce.
Post by: paul_e on December 22, 2021, 04:57:42 PM
Back to on the field issues, we're in sh!t or bust territory as far as the series goes now. Big decisions for me are:
Does Crawley come in for either Burns or Hameed?
Do Bairstow or Lawrence come in for Pope?
Does Buttler keep his place in the side?
Bowling attack for me should be Robinson, Wood, Leach and Anderson. We've got to win really so will have to go with a longer tail and hope the top seven can finally produce.
I think does he keep the gloves is a more likely question, his digging in to try to get a result in the 2nd test will have removed any doubts about him being in the batting lineup given how many others are looking lost right now.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 22, 2021, 07:43:37 PM
Post by: Gareth on December 23, 2021, 07:41:59 AM
Imagine if Moeen hadn’t retired, he’d have batted 8 in first test, 6 in the second and proposed to open in the 3rd
Post by: Dr Butler on December 23, 2021, 09:12:10 AM
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Whatever they're doing if it takes Vaughan away then I'm all for it. No one stepping down/being kicked/jumping before they're pushed matters much to me because this year we've lost the best with Holding stepping down and no one was going to be a decent replacement for him.
agreed, I love listening to Michael talk about all things.
a top fella
UTV
The Doc
Post by: tomd2103 on December 23, 2021, 01:03:13 PM
I think Pope is only one of that top 7 who will be dropped, coin flip whether it’s Crawley, Bairstow or Lawrence who will be recalled from a previous string of failures. Not sure any of those will open so Burns & Hameed will get another chance.
Imagine if Moeen hadn’t retired, he’d have batted 8 in first test, 6 in the second and proposed to open in the 3rd
I suppose that the main issues with making changes to is that those potentially coming in have had their own struggles at test level in the past and have hardly played any cricket since arriving in Australia. I would maybe give the openers one last chance, but bring Bairstow in for Pope (mainly because he is the most experienced option) and go with:
Hameed, Burns, Malan, Root, Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler (wk), Robinson, Wood, Leach, Anderson
Post by: Gareth on December 23, 2021, 01:09:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2021, 04:04:24 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 23, 2021, 04:23:47 PM
Good news a batsman who averages 11 this year and one who has been really poor for 3 years in Tests. That said at least Bairstow is a good fielder.
You've cursed him now Paul
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2021, 05:05:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 25, 2021, 07:38:00 AM
I like bowling attack much more for this game, it’s got a better balance and some variety. I really hope Leach performs, but I think he’s a better bowler than he’s given credit for. But you can tell he’s an “arm round the shoulder” type, so he needs support from his captain and team.
Crawley and Bairstow - I get why they’ve made the changes but I hold out little hope for them. I’d have gone for Lawrence instead of Bairstow and all the talk since the last Test has been about leaving the ball better. Well Crawley’s main problem is always trying to play booming drives, so not sure leaving is really a strength of his. Still fingers crossed he replicates his innings against Pakistan from 2020!
Post by: KevinGage on December 25, 2021, 03:12:41 PM
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Whatever they're doing if it takes Vaughan away then I'm all for it. No one stepping down/being kicked/jumping before they're pushed matters much to me because this year we've lost the best with Holding stepping down and no one was going to be a decent replacement for him.
agreed, I love listening to Michael talk about all things.
a top fella
UTV
The Doc
They've now lost Bumble, Holding, Botham, Gower and Willis for various reasons over the last few years.
I was never blown away by Gower as a presenter/ linkman.
But the replacements for all that lot are anodyne and dull AF.
Post by: olaftab on December 25, 2021, 03:15:54 PM
I was never blown away by Gower as a presenter/ linkman.But he managed to edge it quite often.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 25, 2021, 08:53:46 PM
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Whatever they're doing if it takes Vaughan away then I'm all for it. No one stepping down/being kicked/jumping before they're pushed matters much to me because this year we've lost the best with Holding stepping down and no one was going to be a decent replacement for him.
agreed, I love listening to Michael talk about all things.
a top fella
UTV
The Doc
They've now lost Bumble, Holding, Botham, Gower and Willis for various reasons over the last few years.
I was never blown away by Gower as a presenter/ linkman.
But the replacements for all that lot are anodyne and dull AF.
Willis was bumped off commentary years ago. He was far better in his later miserable bugger analyst role.
Athers, Nas, Isa, Ebony, Key etc are far better than Botham and Gower. However, Holding will be missed, as will Bumble for ODI and T20.
Post by: olaftab on December 25, 2021, 11:37:41 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 26, 2021, 12:10:23 AM
Hameed gone for a Duck
Post by: UK Redsox on December 26, 2021, 12:16:38 AM
Post by: Risso on December 26, 2021, 12:52:39 AM
Post by: Risso on December 26, 2021, 01:06:54 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 26, 2021, 01:06:56 AM
Post by: Villafirst on December 26, 2021, 04:03:53 AM
Post by: tony scott on December 26, 2021, 04:22:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2021, 04:44:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2021, 04:46:44 AM
Pathetic effort from an embarrassment of a team.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2021, 04:51:15 AM
This lot are worse than the 90s team(s). We’ll lose this, so how many Tests defeats will that be this calendar year? 9? Fucking hell.
Post by: Steve67 on December 26, 2021, 07:51:42 AM
Post by: Monty on December 26, 2021, 07:58:15 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 26, 2021, 07:58:55 AM
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 26, 2021, 08:14:37 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 26, 2021, 09:05:17 AM
5-0 looks to be on the cards as we're just getting brushed aside without the Aussies seemingly needing to get out of first gear
Post by: simboy on December 26, 2021, 09:07:09 AM
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 26, 2021, 09:13:19 AM
Embarrassing display yet again.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 26, 2021, 09:27:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2021, 09:36:49 AM
It's good in a way. Purging. No excuses. Many heads rolling overdue down the steps of the guillotine. In the long run, it can be helpful to have these tumbril moments.
Yeah I mean there’s two angles to look at this. Firstly there’s the direct stuff - the coaching, play just isn’t good enough. Our bowlers are our best part of the game, but let’s face it in general they need some help from conditions. The batting and fielding is amateur - save a few exceptions. The management and coaching set up is making the team less than the sum of its parts.
Then there’s the structural bit - first class cricket marginalised and played in spring and early autumn for the main. But the worst thing is poor pitches - they mean we’re not producing batsmen who know how to play long innings and it also makes ordinary bowlers look like world beaters.
Post by: Ads on December 26, 2021, 09:40:37 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 26, 2021, 09:54:02 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 26, 2021, 11:14:22 AM
Can’t expect serious cricket to be any good when the shit & giggles stuff is the priority
Fur coat & lack of knickers springs to mind
Post by: olaftab on December 26, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
It's good in a way. Purging. No excuses. Many heads rolling overdue down the steps of the guillotine. In the long run, it can be helpful to have these tumbril moments.For those who have destroyed the temple of Test match cricket a reckoning awaits but who will lead in face of embarrassing riches of fluff and straw, the short formats, to do something about it?
Post by: Risso on December 26, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Post by: LeeB on December 26, 2021, 12:09:55 PM
There's only so many times you can use T20 and the like as an excuse for England's ineptitude.
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken didn't the nation that are currently humiliating us win that World Cup a few weeks ago?
Post by: TopDeck113 on December 26, 2021, 12:17:57 PM
Post by: Nev on December 26, 2021, 12:26:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2021, 10:05:25 PM
Post by: Villafirst on December 27, 2021, 01:51:52 AM
I predict Australia will get around 400.
Perhaps they'll struggle to get 200 now....?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 27, 2021, 02:09:04 AM
Anderson's spell with the new ball was superb and if only Mark Wood could just stay clear of injuries.
Post by: Drummond on December 27, 2021, 02:59:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2021, 05:56:12 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2021, 06:14:34 AM
Post by: OzVilla on December 27, 2021, 06:54:50 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 27, 2021, 06:58:20 AM
Decent opening partnership by Englands recent standards. Made it to 7.Soon goes to 7-2
Post by: manic-road on December 27, 2021, 07:00:09 AM
Post by: OzVilla on December 27, 2021, 07:01:50 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 27, 2021, 07:34:45 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 27, 2021, 07:40:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2021, 08:52:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 27, 2021, 08:57:04 AM
Post by: simboy on December 27, 2021, 09:02:00 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 27, 2021, 09:25:18 AM
We're way off and but for a few the words batting technique doesn't exist.
Sad times indeed.
Post by: Gareth on December 27, 2021, 12:39:18 PM
Oh well if Root, Stokes, Bairstow and Buttler can get 250 between them we might have a chance!Think much more likely the game doesn’t last until lunch
Post by: tomd2103 on December 27, 2021, 06:50:55 PM
And within a couple of overs of the afternoon the pressure has well and truly been released. Awful. And Leach on straight after lunch? To defend?
Think the light will well and truly be shone on Silverwood and Root's decision making after this debacle of a series. Too many inexplicable decisions being made.
Post by: Steve67 on December 27, 2021, 11:55:18 PM
Post by: Nev on December 28, 2021, 12:00:07 AM
Decided to go to bed now.
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2021, 12:32:42 AM
61-7. Shameful.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2021, 12:40:02 AM
Just tuned in hoping for a miracle.
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2021, 12:41:30 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 28, 2021, 12:41:31 AM
Abject batting doesn’t even cut it this series
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2021, 12:44:18 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 28, 2021, 12:45:27 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 28, 2021, 12:46:44 AM
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2021, 12:50:52 AM
Post by: TonyD on December 28, 2021, 12:54:05 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2021, 12:55:39 AM
Post by: Gareth on December 28, 2021, 12:59:24 AM
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2021, 12:59:48 AM
Post by: OzVilla on December 28, 2021, 01:01:51 AM
We are so poor it’s quite unbelievable. These are professionals in their sport and they have all the application of a 4 year old reading Shakespeare. Appalling effort.
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2021, 01:10:49 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2021, 01:22:36 AM
The ECB need a long hard look at the direction they are taking the game in this country.
Post by: TopDeck113 on December 28, 2021, 01:25:44 AM
Post by: Steve67 on December 28, 2021, 01:29:01 AM
Post by: tony scott on December 28, 2021, 02:00:33 AM
Post by: Rory on December 28, 2021, 02:03:22 AM
I know he has friends in the dressing room, but is he fucking joking?! We ALL saw that coming.
Post by: tony scott on December 28, 2021, 02:18:57 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2021, 02:41:08 AM
Steven Finn, Former England bowler on BBC Test Match Special: "I'm almost in shock. I don't think anyone saw that coming."
I know he has friends in the dressing room, but is he fucking joking?! We ALL saw that coming.
Part of the problem Rory. Many of the media are close to those in the set up, so the appropriate level of scrutiny and criticism has not been apportioned over the past couple of years.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2021, 03:33:43 AM
Post by: tony scott on December 28, 2021, 03:50:18 AM
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2021, 08:36:58 AM
- redress the balance so that first class cricket is not marginalised. Things like ensuring it is played in the heart of the summer, incentivising counties to play on good pitches etc-
- better management of promising players - like helping them get first class cricket abroad in the winter.
- this also requires better people in the Exec positions who don’t just look at the short-term. I’m not saying chuck white ball cricket out, it’s an important component. It’s just ensuring there’s a balanced focus. England, with the resources available, should be able to be able to compete in both formats.
Then there’s the short-term stuff that’ll likely bring improvements in the interim -
- Split the roles of coach and selector(s) back out again. It was a stupid decision to merge them in the first place, there needs to be a separation because there’s an inevitable conflict. Also the coach simply doesn’t have enough time to watch enough cricket to be a lead selector.
- Replace Silverwood with a coach with more experience and a proven track record. We also need someone from the outside, because it’s felt too cosy under Silverwood.
- Let Root go back to being a batsman. This does create a problem with the captaincy because Stokes is the only other guaranteed starter, and I’d rather they didn’t put the captaincy on his plate too. They might need to do a bit of a refresh and bring someone like Tom Abell in as captain, but obviously that creates risk.
- Get rid of the likes of Bairstow.
- Plan tours better. I accept that Covid has been a big problem and generally there’s a lot of cricket. But we need first class cricket when we arrive on tour and in the Ashes especially there needs to be space between the Tests to get in another couple of first class games. They’ve been hampered by poor squad selection, selecting players who had recently struggled when they knew they couldn’t get any cricket, but it’s just daft having no breaks between games.
Those are just a few things, but bloody hell this team needs real work.
Post by: Drummond on December 28, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
The Aussies, meanwhile, love for the Ashes and love test cricket.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 28, 2021, 09:46:46 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 28, 2021, 09:53:47 AM
To lose by an innings within three days when the opposition scores less than 300 is arguably one of the most inept sporting "performances" from an England team I can recall.
267 is the lowest score to win an Ashes test by an innings since 1888
Post by: UK Redsox on December 28, 2021, 09:56:43 AM
W . 1 . 4 3 1 1 . . W . W 1 1 . 3 . W . . . . W . . W . W
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2021, 10:04:47 AM
Post by: Drummond on December 28, 2021, 10:49:45 AM
Step One: abolish The Hundred.
Which is another crap attempt to attract fans to the game. I think it's just killing the game for me. I'm losing interest in cricket now.
Perhaps the kids will like it, perhaps it will take off, but it feels like the game I enjoyed is on the way out.
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2021, 11:08:07 AM
Next up the 5-0 whitewash.
Post by: Monty on December 28, 2021, 11:08:26 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2021, 12:20:20 PM
I think there’s two angles to this. There’s the long-term stuff, which will ultimately make a sustained difference -
- redress the balance so that first class cricket is not marginalised. Things like ensuring it is played in the heart of the summer, incentivising counties to play on good pitches etc-
- better management of promising players - like helping them get first class cricket abroad in the winter.
- this also requires better people in the Exec positions who don’t just look at the short-term. I’m not saying chuck white ball cricket out, it’s an important component. It’s just ensuring there’s a balanced focus. England, with the resources available, should be able to be able to compete in both formats.
Then there’s the short-term stuff that’ll likely bring improvements in the interim -
- Split the roles of coach and selector(s) back out again. It was a stupid decision to merge them in the first place, there needs to be a separation because there’s an inevitable conflict. Also the coach simply doesn’t have enough time to watch enough cricket to be a lead selector.
- Replace Silverwood with a coach with more experience and a proven track record. We also need someone from the outside, because it’s felt too cosy under Silverwood.
- Let Root go back to being a batsman. This does create a problem with the captaincy because Stokes is the only other guaranteed starter, and I’d rather they didn’t put the captaincy on his plate too. They might need to do a bit of a refresh and bring someone like Tom Abell in as captain, but obviously that creates risk.
- Get rid of the likes of Bairstow.
- Plan tours better. I accept that Covid has been a big problem and generally there’s a lot of cricket. But we need first class cricket when we arrive on tour and in the Ashes especially there needs to be space between the Tests to get in another couple of first class games. They’ve been hampered by poor squad selection, selecting players who had recently struggled when they knew they couldn’t get any cricket, but it’s just daft having no breaks between games.
Those are just a few things, but bloody hell this team needs real work.
Agree with all of that Paul, but I can't see how it is achieved at the moment. We play far too much international cricket and need to redress the balance with domestic cricket, but the ECB fund the game in this country so need to maximise the revenue from the international game. We've got ourselves in a position where it is going to be hard to turn things round.
Not just the result, but the nature of it means that both Silverwood and Root need to step down for me.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on December 28, 2021, 01:19:44 PM
Post by: simboy on December 28, 2021, 01:27:24 PM
English elite batsman (with Root the exception) lack a proper technique. Watch Crawley and Burns get out - they’re opening batsmen for Christ sake - you don’t get bowled around your legs first up. Basic Saturday league stuff.
Agree with all you say Paul about how to change the exec but it’s player attitude that needs changing.
Why didn’t we send Burns, Crawley, Pope, Hamid out to play grade cricket whilst the T20 World Cup was on? Why not send Anderson and Broad out there. Both would have been better served for the Ashes, and been for for the first test. Anderson could have worked on his niggles.
There’s lots we could have done or considered to do. We didn’t and we have been royally embarrassed.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on December 28, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2021, 01:51:51 PM
This kind of performance has been happening for a number of years now and I've often thought during that time that unless they are firmly on top in the first couple of days, they just wrap it up and move on to the next test or next series. The attitude just seems to be "oh well, not to be this time, let's move on to the next game" and they haven't really been held to account up to this point.
Post by: Risso on December 28, 2021, 02:08:41 PM
The backlash has been pretty significant in the press, but this is not a new problem, it's just that it has happened in our most high profile series.
This kind of performance has been happening for a number of years now and I've often thought during that time that unless they are firmly on top in the first couple of days, they just wrap it up and move on to the next test or next series. The attitude just seems to be "oh well, not to be this time, let's move on to the next game" and they haven't really been held to account up to this point.
Exactly right. There's no accountability, and you just get Root coming out with Lambertesque soundbites about being better for the next match.
Post by: Gareth on December 28, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
Supporters need to boycott the Hundred both in attending or watching on tv….it’s a pathetically conceived competition that has an end game for the ECB of getting rid of the smaller counties and leaving 8-10 franchises based around the test grounds.
Whilst the efforts with the bat have been gutless this winter where are the alternative batsmen? How much red ball cricket did county batsmen play last season in the key summer months….it was so marginalised to April / May & September where the ball was always going to dominate.
Silverwood should go for that pink and fluffy nonsense he spouted after game & entire ECB board should follow
Post by: Steve67 on December 28, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
Post by: Rory on December 28, 2021, 04:08:33 PM
The backlash has been pretty significant in the press, but this is not a new problem, it's just that it has happened in our most high profile series.
This kind of performance has been happening for a number of years now and I've often thought during that time that unless they are firmly on top in the first couple of days, they just wrap it up and move on to the next test or next series. The attitude just seems to be "oh well, not to be this time, let's move on to the next game" and they haven't really been held to account up to this point.
Exactly right. There's no accountability, and you just get Root coming out with Lambertesque soundbites about being better for the next match.
Agreed, both. As others have said, we're England cricket fans so we're accustomed to losing, but there is something deeply unprofessional about the way we have approached batting for a few years now, particularly away from home. The last three tours to Aus, we have not just been beaten heavily, we have been thoroughly uncompetitive, and that's not acceptable.
Post by: olaftab on December 28, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Steven Finn, Former England bowler on BBC Test Match Special: "I'm almost in shock. I don't think anyone saw that coming."Unbelievable claptrap. Finn is from them. He is known as England Test bowler but probably wouldn't feature in the list if top 100 international bowlers. Far too much dross around in this generation of test match players all brought about by absolute shameful money gathering greed from ECB.
I know he has friends in the dressing room, but is he fucking joking?! We ALL saw that coming.
Post by: Lsvilla on December 28, 2021, 04:37:55 PM
On the contrary - he’s in the same category as Larwood for me - not many get the laws changed because of their bowling.Steven Finn, Former England bowler on BBC Test Match Special: "I'm almost in shock. I don't think anyone saw that coming."Unbelievable claptrap. Finn is from them. He is known as England Test bowler but probably wouldn't feature in the list if top 100 international bowlers. Far too much dross around in this generation of test match players all brought about by absolute shameful money gathering greed from ECB.
I know he has friends in the dressing room, but is he fucking joking?! We ALL saw that coming.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2021, 08:09:26 PM
Post by: KevinGage on December 28, 2021, 10:49:38 PM
This England cricket team are a force for good.
Think of the trauma the Aussies have been through in recent years. Half the country on fire three years ago. Covid fuckeries for the last two years.
And here comes the England cricket team to restore national prestige, pummeled with pride.
Yes, the true Aussie cricket fan might have hoped for an actual sporting contest.
But that's just greedy. Can't have it all.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 28, 2021, 11:15:26 PM
Post by: Rory on December 28, 2021, 11:22:50 PM
I'd probably have more sympathy for England's cricketing latest humiliation if BBC Sport hadn't done a piece last week the gist of which 'if you think England are bad in Oz spare a thought for Ireland who've just lost to the USA'.
I don't disagree, but as with the T20 World Cup, I'm not sure when Ireland became good enough that their losing to any associate nation is a surprise.
They'd probably put up at least as much of a fight against the Aussies as England have done this series, but Ireland are still essentially shit at cricket.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on December 28, 2021, 11:47:25 PM
I'd probably have more sympathy for England's cricketing latest humiliation if BBC Sport hadn't done a piece last week the gist of which 'if you think England are bad in Oz spare a thought for Ireland who've just lost to the USA'.
I don't disagree, but as with the T20 World Cup, I'm not sure when Ireland became good enough that their losing to any associate nation is a surprise.
They'd probably put up at least as much of a fight against the Aussies as England have done this series, but Ireland are still essentially shit at cricket.
True, it's still very much a minority sport here but then England aren't great at hurling. :)
Post by: Rory on December 28, 2021, 11:59:19 PM
I'd probably have more sympathy for England's cricketing latest humiliation if BBC Sport hadn't done a piece last week the gist of which 'if you think England are bad in Oz spare a thought for Ireland who've just lost to the USA'.
I don't disagree, but as with the T20 World Cup, I'm not sure when Ireland became good enough that their losing to any associate nation is a surprise.
They'd probably put up at least as much of a fight against the Aussies as England have done this series, but Ireland are still essentially shit at cricket.
True, it's still very much a minority sport here but then England aren't great at hurling. :)
True so, although if there's one group of sports supporters who'd embrace hurling, I think it would be cricket fans. Let's hope, if that ever happens, the Barmy Army aren't on board!
Post by: UK Redsox on December 29, 2021, 06:55:30 PM
Post by: Monty on December 30, 2021, 09:52:47 AM
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2021, 10:37:26 AM
Post by: Rory on December 30, 2021, 04:37:45 PM
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
That most definitely would've been fouling the man.
It's a physical game but the rules do not allow striking an opponent with the hurley. All proper coaching emphasises restrained use of the hurley and seriously frowns upon any play that may result in either you accidentally hitting an opponent, or putting yourself in a position where you could accidentally be hit.
So while it can/does happen, being struck in the neck would be no more a part of hurling than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear was a part of boxing.
Sorry for sounding all serious, I just think hurling's reputation as being brutal is unfair, and it's certainly nowhere near as dangerous as rugby, say.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 31, 2021, 01:47:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 31, 2021, 02:07:02 PM
Back to cricket and it seems that the vultures are circling over Silverwood already.
Rightly so, this is as bad as we've seen in an ashes tour.
Post by: Risso on December 31, 2021, 02:16:37 PM
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
That most definitely would've been fouling the man.
It's a physical game but the rules do not allow striking an opponent with the hurley. All proper coaching emphasises restrained use of the hurley and seriously frowns upon any play that may result in either you accidentally hitting an opponent, or putting yourself in a position where you could accidentally be hit.
So while it can/does happen, being struck in the neck would be no more a part of hurling than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear was a part of boxing.
Sorry for sounding all serious, I just think hurling's reputation as being brutal is unfair, and it's certainly nowhere near as dangerous as rugby, say.
According to my aforementioned family member, the most violent part was always the post match fight between the teams. He reckoned it didn't matter who the teams were, there was always a massive scrap. And apparently Steve Staunton was absolutely hard as nails.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 31, 2021, 02:37:27 PM
Back to cricket and it seems that the vultures are circling over Silverwood already.
Rightly so, this is as bad as we've seen in an ashes tour.
And that’s not in isolation either. We’ve been on a decline in general for a while - not all Silverwood’s fault clearly, but nothing he’s done has made a positive improvement. It’s been a diabolical year for English Test cricket. The fact you have player scoring the third most runs ever in a calendar year and we still lost 9 Tests shows how bad it’s been.
Silverwood needs to go, but they also need to split the coach and selectors roles again - amalgamating them was another terrible decision.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 31, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
Back to cricket and it seems that the vultures are circling over Silverwood already.
Rightly so, this is as bad as we've seen in an ashes tour.
And that’s not in isolation either. We’ve been on a decline in general for a while - not all Silverwood’s fault clearly, but nothing he’s done has made a positive improvement. It’s been a diabolical year for English Test cricket. The fact you have player scoring the third most runs ever in a calendar year and we still lost 9 Tests shows how bad it’s been.
Silverwood needs to go, but they also need to split the coach and selectors roles again - amalgamating them was another terrible decision.
Heard parts of an interview with Gary Kirsten that was on Talksport earlier today. Said he would be interested in the role, but only the test side of things and not the ODIs. We've been down that route before and it wasn't entirely successful, but do wonder if that is the way to now go with there being such a busy schedule.
Post by: dave shelley on December 31, 2021, 02:59:33 PM
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
That most definitely would've been fouling the man.
It's a physical game but the rules do not allow striking an opponent with the hurley. All proper coaching emphasises restrained use of the hurley and seriously frowns upon any play that may result in either you accidentally hitting an opponent, or putting yourself in a position where you could accidentally be hit.
So while it can/does happen, being struck in the neck would be no more a part of hurling than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear was a part of boxing.
Sorry for sounding all serious, I just think hurling's reputation as being brutal is unfair, and it's certainly nowhere near as dangerous as rugby, say.
According to my aforementioned family member, the most violent part was always the post match fight between the teams. He reckoned it didn't matter who the teams were, there was always a massive scrap. And apparently Steve Staunton was absolutely hard as nails.
However bad the stuff on the pitch may be, when the spectators get involved it's a joy to behold!
Post by: paul_e on December 31, 2021, 03:04:36 PM
Post by: Rory on December 31, 2021, 04:00:23 PM
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
That most definitely would've been fouling the man.
It's a physical game but the rules do not allow striking an opponent with the hurley. All proper coaching emphasises restrained use of the hurley and seriously frowns upon any play that may result in either you accidentally hitting an opponent, or putting yourself in a position where you could accidentally be hit.
So while it can/does happen, being struck in the neck would be no more a part of hurling than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear was a part of boxing.
Sorry for sounding all serious, I just think hurling's reputation as being brutal is unfair, and it's certainly nowhere near as dangerous as rugby, say.
According to my aforementioned family member, the most violent part was always the post match fight between the teams. He reckoned it didn't matter who the teams were, there was always a massive scrap. And apparently Steve Staunton was absolutely hard as nails.
Sounds about right. I remember the All Ireland final 10 or 12 years ago, the teams walked out, camera cut to the stands for maybe five seconds, then there was a roar and the commentator said, "yep, here we go". The camera cut back to show a 10-man brawl between the sides. This was before the anthem and everything.
Post by: Steve67 on December 31, 2021, 08:02:33 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 31, 2021, 08:07:35 PM
Gary Kirsten instead of Silverwood is a no brainer. Splitting the one day from the test side isn't the worst thing either.IMO it's a rubbish idea. If you look at 3 leading Test nations New zealand, India and Australia there is not a lot of difference between their Test teams and short games. Develop the national cricket purely for Test matches and then also play best players in the short game. That's a no brainer as far as I am concerned.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 31, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 01, 2022, 01:09:34 PM
Would look to condense the 18 counties into 6 regional sides (ie. Warks, Worcs and Northants would make up the Central region) and split the five fixtures so they fall before the two test series we play over the summer. Get the England players playing, get the best of the County players playing and maybe even allow one side a top overseas player each to bring the level up further.
As I said, the County Championship must remain for me, but I think if the summer is structured properly, there would be enough room to fit five weeks in.
Post by: Gareth on January 01, 2022, 02:30:36 PM
I think 3 divisions might be a good option in county championship so that the best players / teams are against each other more often.
Three formats is the way forward & supports international formats - 4 day / 50 over / t20 (play more regularly, no reason that they can’t play 3/4 t20’s a week & condense comp)….stick that Hundred bull into the bin
Post by: tomd2103 on January 01, 2022, 05:33:10 PM
As a Worcs fan I am obviously resistant to any further franchise cricket because it is clear what the plan is. ECB don’t want the likes of Worcs / Northants / Leicester sharing their income
I think 3 divisions might be a good option in county championship so that the best players / teams are against each other more often.
Three formats is the way forward & supports international formats - 4 day / 50 over / t20 (play more regularly, no reason that they can’t play 3/4 t20’s a week & condense comp)….stick that Hundred bull into the bin
Agree Gareth and as I say, I wouldn’t want the County Championship to be impacted in any way. I do think though that if the season was structured better, there would be room for a series of higher level 4 day games.
People involved in County cricket might tell me different, but I still can’t see why the season can’t be based on weekly County Championship matches held Monday to Thursday and then play the limited overs stuff Friday nights/ Saturdays / Sunday afternoons.
No chance The Hundred is going to be dropped any time soon, but you can already see the scheduling problems it is going to cause. As I say, no chance of the ECB knocking it on the head and I would definitely keep it for the Women’s game, but I would happily see it gone.
Post by: Rory on January 03, 2022, 01:09:51 AM
For cricket fans, it's messing with the format in an unnecessary way, with less cricket to watch.
For non-cricket fans, whether it's 100 or 120 balls, it's a chance to get drunk in the open air on a summer evening with blokes smashing a ball about the place.
I can only think it's the product of a committee of PR morons who think cricket is too complicated because they can't process more than one number at a time, so have taken a punt on decimalising it.
No different to introducing a new trophy in football called 'the hour' whereby each half is 30 minutes, the goals are widened and for ten minutes of each half there is a limit on the number of defenders you can play.
Post by: Gareth on January 03, 2022, 12:11:15 PM
Post by: Rory on January 03, 2022, 12:30:43 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 03, 2022, 01:11:13 PM
Post by: Rory on January 03, 2022, 01:36:23 PM
"The Hour" sounds intriguing. Great idea Rory, any additional chances to win honours should be embraced.
Why thank you!
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 03, 2022, 02:01:43 PM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 03, 2022, 02:23:43 PM
Post by: Rotterdam on January 03, 2022, 07:43:14 PM
I still don't see anything The Hundred has over the Blast that couldn't be remedied with marketing. Is anybody who isn't already interested in cricket going to show up for The Hundred? And if they do, is a different number of balls per over going to make it uniquely attractive or help them get into the other formats?
For cricket fans, it's messing with the format in an unnecessary way, with less cricket to watch.
For non-cricket fans, whether it's 100 or 120 balls, it's a chance to get drunk in the open air on a summer evening with blokes smashing a ball about the place.
I can only think it's the product of a committee of PR morons who think cricket is too complicated because they can't process more than one number at a time, so have taken a punt on decimalising it.
No different to introducing a new trophy in football called 'the hour' whereby each half is 30 minutes, the goals are widened and for ten minutes of each half there is a limit on the number of defenders you can play.
Talking to someone recently ITK, the ECB were looking for a format they could potentially export and make money from. They are desperate to get India involved for obvious reasons and hopefully franchise out the format to claw back some of the huge investment they've made. If The Hundred hasn't taken off in Australia in the next couple of years and then the sub-continent, it will probably falter. India is the key, but they don't want it impacting on the IPL.
PS I hated it last summer and will do so again.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 03, 2022, 07:48:00 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 05, 2022, 07:53:02 AM
Because England didn’t bat and aren’t 38 for 4.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 05, 2022, 08:20:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 05, 2022, 08:21:53 AM
Post by: Risso on January 05, 2022, 09:04:46 AM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on January 05, 2022, 09:14:33 AM
As someone who cares as much for cricket as he does for caterpillar racing, it strikes me as no surprise that England are shite in tests when they spend a big chunk of the season playing all these different competitions. It's like having a five a side tournament in the middle of the football season then wondering why we don't win the World Cup.
This test feels like when Villa score in the 5th minute of injury time and we're 0-3 behind.
At least Caterpillar races tend to last longer than an England Test innings.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 05, 2022, 01:35:11 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 05, 2022, 10:36:19 PM
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Giles needs to sack himself. Did well with the Bears but way out of his depth in the test arena, sadly. Nice guy and great player, despite me supporting the Pears but he and Silverwood need to step down.
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 06, 2022, 01:33:32 AM
Corporate arse-covering! Who would have guessed it?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 06, 2022, 07:01:08 AM
Post by: Risso on January 06, 2022, 11:46:58 AM
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Giles needs to sack himself. Did well with the Bears but way out of his depth in the test arena, sadly. Nice guy and great player, despite me supporting the Pears but he and Silverwood need to step down.
He's got that annoying habit of saying 'OK' after he's made a statement, as if he's forcing the listener to agree with what he's saying. OK?
Post by: paul_e on January 06, 2022, 12:20:40 PM
As a tiny bit of credit the 5 over spell was a tricky one given the form of our openers so credit to them for seeing it off (I know that's a really low bar). it's now on them to keep that going and get through the first 20-25 overs unscathed to at least get a bit of their dignity back. If they can manage that the target is small enough that we should be able to avoid the follow-on and from there the weather reports for day 4 mean that a draw would become the most likely outcome. Right now I'd take that to avoid the whitewash.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 06, 2022, 01:10:12 PM
On the game I think we've let them score 100 more than we should've from the bits I saw of the morning sessions, losing the bowling of Stokes is a massive blow.
As a tiny bit of credit the 5 over spell was a tricky one given the form of our openers so credit to them for seeing it off (I know that's a really low bar). it's now on them to keep that going and get through the first 20-25 overs unscathed to at least get a bit of their dignity back. If they can manage that the target is small enough that we should be able to avoid the follow-on and from there the weather reports for day 4 mean that a draw would become the most likely outcome. Right now I'd take that to avoid the whitewash.
All fair - but bloody hell you could print that out as part of the review of this debacle just to show how desperate things are.
I’m convinced now on the back of his interview that Giles should go. His justification of the amalgamation of the coach and selector roles being some sort of innovative genius that flies in the face of cricketing tradition was just laughable. No Ashley it’s just a really bad decision.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 06, 2022, 04:43:20 PM
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Agree. The assertion that moving up from 4th to 5th in the test rankings showed there had been some improvement in that format was ludicrous. Also the comment along the lines "we beat the teams we should beat and lose to the teams we should lose to" was also poor, especially considering one of the team's he was talking about is New Zealand, who have far less resources to work with.
Felt it is symptomatic of the attitude of the test team as a whole really.
Post by: Steve67 on January 06, 2022, 07:55:56 PM
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Giles needs to sack himself. Did well with the Bears but way out of his depth in the test arena, sadly. Nice guy and great player, despite me supporting the Pears but he and Silverwood need to step down.
He's got that annoying habit of saying 'OK' after he's made a statement, as if he's forcing the listener to agree with what he's saying. OK?
Ok! He just doesn't inspire any confidence that they are heading in the right direction, in fact, any direction.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 06, 2022, 09:01:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 06, 2022, 09:12:47 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 06, 2022, 09:20:38 PM
Predictions on our first innings effort? I’m going to go with c.170
148
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 06, 2022, 09:28:32 PM
I'm feeling optimistic
Post by: Gareth on January 06, 2022, 10:02:38 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 06, 2022, 10:05:50 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 07, 2022, 02:26:41 AM
Update. No run for 53 balls. Malan out. And lunch. Aussie players openly laughing at us. Is Gilo available for another interview? Needs to be clearing his desk I think.
Post by: Rory on January 07, 2022, 02:53:46 AM
Zalzman will no doubt have the full grim figures, but this tour has been the most embarrassing that I can remember.
As ever, there's losing, and then there's this...
Post by: manic-road on January 07, 2022, 06:53:24 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2022, 07:01:56 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 07, 2022, 07:17:44 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 07, 2022, 07:29:38 AM
Post by: JD on January 07, 2022, 07:33:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2022, 08:13:41 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 07, 2022, 08:14:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 07, 2022, 08:18:56 AM
Post by: simboy on January 07, 2022, 08:54:36 AM
Better from Stokes, Bairstow and Woods. Thought Bairstow looked ok last test too be fair.
Can we actually get to the second new ball this time? I dry much doubt it, so a deficit of about 150? With a day and three quarters left. Let’s hope there’s a lot of rain around in Sydney. It’s highly unlikely this team bat out for a draw if they have a day to bat for it.
Post by: Risso on January 07, 2022, 12:35:54 PM
Yeah I mean the score illustrates our problem in a way. Even if two or three players do well the rest get virtually nothing and you just don’t get to a competitive total. For England to get decent totals one player has to score a huge score, which just isn’t sustainable.
That's it in a nutshell. Even with a century and a half century, we're still struggling to get to 300.
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 07, 2022, 12:38:19 PM
Post by: simon ward 50 on January 07, 2022, 01:22:04 PM
Yeah I mean the score illustrates our problem in a way. Even if two or three players do well the rest get virtually nothing and you just don’t get to a competitive total. For England to get decent totals one player has to score a huge score, which just isn’t sustainable.
That's it in a nutshell. Even with a century and a half century, we're still struggling to get to 300.
Take out Bairstow and Stokes and the rest have so far scored less than 100! England's batting has been awful for the last 5 years and nothing has been done to arrest the decline.
Post by: olaftab on January 07, 2022, 11:36:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 07, 2022, 11:42:59 PM
Post by: Gareth on January 07, 2022, 11:43:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 07, 2022, 11:55:03 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 08, 2022, 12:02:43 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 08, 2022, 05:44:39 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 08, 2022, 05:45:55 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 08, 2022, 07:48:00 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 08, 2022, 09:04:16 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 08, 2022, 10:22:57 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 08, 2022, 12:26:09 PM
I know there is much to criticise but isn’t that down to injuries?Yes but what about professional risk assessment during team selection to ensure you protect your assets. When Bairstow is selected he should keep wicket and leave Buttler out and therefore making sure another specialist is not being risked in the field particularly as Buttler does not offer any significant batting advantage.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 08, 2022, 01:01:22 PM
Post by: Monty on January 08, 2022, 01:18:50 PM
Sounds like Billings is going to play next week.
Less a selection change and more a variation in the Aussie bowlers' diet.
Post by: Steve67 on January 08, 2022, 10:34:32 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 08, 2022, 10:39:43 PM
Do we fancy England to make it through the day?Haha. Without rain I wouldn’t give us a prayer. Unfortunately. From the man who’s going to the T20’s in Barbados next week.
Post by: Steve67 on January 08, 2022, 11:06:40 PM
Do we fancy England to make it through the day?Haha. Without rain I wouldn’t give us a prayer. Unfortunately. From the man who’s going to the T20’s in Barbados next week.
Enjoy matey.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 08, 2022, 11:08:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 08, 2022, 11:17:29 PM
Post by: Gareth on January 08, 2022, 11:46:20 PM
Without wishing to jinx Crawley hope he continues this attacking approach, looks so much better playing a few shots
Post by: Lsvilla on January 08, 2022, 11:49:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 09, 2022, 12:04:42 AM
Do we fancy England to make it through the day?Yes and possibly win it. (ok I should not drink too much water)
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 09, 2022, 07:11:21 AM
Post by: Nev on January 09, 2022, 07:55:09 AM
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 09, 2022, 07:56:31 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 09, 2022, 08:30:33 AM
Admire the optimism Paul but this is another pitiful display. Just not quite as utterly horrifying as others. If we don't lose this match I will eat everyone's hats.
I'll draw up a rota so that I don't have too many hats at once.
Good not to lose but a long way from winning. Hopefully put up even more of a fight in the next one.
Post by: Gareth on January 09, 2022, 09:13:53 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 09, 2022, 09:30:51 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 09, 2022, 09:37:16 AM
Admire the optimism Paul but this is another pitiful display. Just not quite as utterly horrifying as others. If we don't lose this match I will eat everyone's hats.
I'll draw up a rota so that I don't have too many hats at once.
Good not to lose but a long way from winning. Hopefully put up even more of a fight in the next one.
It feels weird that it went almost exactly as i suggested, couple of early-ish wickets to slow their 3rd innings and the nerves caused by a big knock from bairstow got to them and made them bat too long. That meant we were never really chasing and we managed to dig in enough.
Post by: PGW on January 09, 2022, 11:41:04 AM
Will Stokes and Bairstow play. Ben most certainly won't bowl so probably out.
After his success in this game hopefully Bairstow will be fit.
Billings called up so will he keep? Pope did well in that second innings......
Post by: tomd2103 on January 09, 2022, 11:19:32 PM
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
Agree Paul, but it does show the kind of situation we are in where we are drawing some comfort out of a last wicket stand scraping a draw for us.
Post by: Rory on January 10, 2022, 12:50:05 AM
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
Agree Paul, but it does show the kind of situation we are in where we are drawing some comfort out of a last wicket stand scraping a draw for us.
You say that, but draw the next test and we'll have the most successful of our tours down under in eleven years. Open-top bus parade territory!
Post by: tomd2103 on January 10, 2022, 12:20:52 PM
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
Agree Paul, but it does show the kind of situation we are in where we are drawing some comfort out of a last wicket stand scraping a draw for us.
You say that, but draw the next test and we'll have the most successful of our tours down under in eleven years. Open-top bus parade territory!
Ha! I of course hope we can get a win at Hobart, but genuinely hope this result and whatever happens next do not detract from the major issues we have with the red ball game.
Post by: Rory on January 10, 2022, 12:55:02 PM
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
Agree Paul, but it does show the kind of situation we are in where we are drawing some comfort out of a last wicket stand scraping a draw for us.
You say that, but draw the next test and we'll have the most successful of our tours down under in eleven years. Open-top bus parade territory!
Ha! I of course hope we can get a win at Hobart, but genuinely hope this result and whatever happens next do not detract from the major issues we have with the red ball game.
Agreed.
Post by: olaftab on January 13, 2022, 09:02:32 PM
Post by: Monty on January 13, 2022, 11:32:28 PM
Post by: Rory on January 14, 2022, 01:54:48 AM
Virat Kohli acting like a total ******.
No?!
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 07:23:58 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 14, 2022, 07:34:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 07:45:22 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 14, 2022, 07:56:21 AM
Post by: simboy on January 14, 2022, 07:57:44 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 14, 2022, 08:13:13 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 08:15:34 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 08:23:51 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 14, 2022, 08:28:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 08:29:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 08:31:13 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 14, 2022, 08:37:33 AM
I’d also add it’s fucking mental playing Stokes when he’s clearly injured.
Or Robinson, his shoulder has gone again after 1 session. How did he pass the fitness test?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 08:55:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 09:02:37 AM
Post by: Risso on January 14, 2022, 09:10:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 09:23:30 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 14, 2022, 09:45:29 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 09:51:10 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 05:33:36 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 14, 2022, 07:31:28 PM
It’s quite a statement for the bowling coach to come out and say Robinson needs to improve his fitness. I agree though, he’s a cracking bowler when he’s at full tilt, but he really struggles to sustain it and drops off a lot.
Jon Lewis was effectively saying that Robinson hasn’t handled the step up fitness wise from county cricket to test cricket. Well you want the player to take responsibility for their own fitness but surely the coaching staff share some of the blame? This tour has been a shambles.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 14, 2022, 08:34:53 PM
Post by: Havencheese on January 15, 2022, 05:41:10 AM
It’s quite a statement for the bowling coach to come out and say Robinson needs to improve his fitness. I agree though, he’s a cracking bowler when he’s at full tilt, but he really struggles to sustain it and drops off a lot.
Jon Lewis was effectively saying that Robinson hasn’t handled the step up fitness wise from county cricket to test cricket. Well you want the player to take responsibility for their own fitness but surely the coaching staff share some of the blame? This tour has been a shambles.
The only excuse I can give is the poor build up and limited opportunities with how strict things have been over here. Sounds like a line though otherwise.
I'm surprised there's even a step up between the two standards so pronounced fitness wise. With Shield cricket over here, quicks are simply expected to step up into a role if they're selected for Australia, absolutely no question. Bowl a few spells in a day and do it potentially in 35+ degree heat. I reckon I could drop by my local Grade cricket team and the fitness levels would be as good as you'd expect to be able to play a First Class/Sheffield Shield which is the level above.
It was alarming to me how after the opening spells yesterday trailed off so badly, I'm not entirely sure it's just Robinson.
Post by: steamer on January 15, 2022, 06:42:07 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2022, 07:37:10 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2022, 07:45:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2022, 08:15:48 AM
Post by: Villafirst on January 15, 2022, 08:19:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2022, 08:23:52 AM
Post by: Nev on January 15, 2022, 08:45:38 AM
Inexcusable that Burns got run out so early. He has been a disaster this series. The top order are hopeless.
I only know a little about cricket really but even someone like me knows the difference between limited overs and Tests in terms of the approach to batting. We see it time and time again, desperate scrambling for runs when there really is no need. Pathetic.
Post by: Monty on January 15, 2022, 08:52:37 AM
Post by: simboy on January 15, 2022, 09:05:03 AM
The batting is shite, that’s well known, but I’m sticking a good deal of responsibility on the bowling this time. Australia got 120/130 more than they should have here and it’s largely down to the dross Wood and Woakes sent down in the second session yesterday.
I’m not saying you’re wrong about Woods an Woakes but this pitch should hold no terrors to a competent batting side. 303 isn’t a mammoth score, probably 80 too many. Trouble is we are not a competent batting side.
We should be getting 250/300. We won’t. We will get 165 if we are lucky. So minimum of 140 deficit before we bowl again.
Post by: Monty on January 15, 2022, 09:26:20 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 15, 2022, 10:36:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 15, 2022, 12:43:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 16, 2022, 12:37:06 AM
Post by: Rory on January 16, 2022, 02:46:13 AM
297
147
192
236
68
185
294
270
188
Two or three aside, they're not competitive in an ODI.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2022, 07:14:20 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 16, 2022, 07:19:01 AM
I reckon this will end today with another crushing defeat.
Post by: simboy on January 16, 2022, 07:28:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2022, 07:30:24 AM
Post by: simboy on January 16, 2022, 07:32:44 AM
Post by: Steve67 on January 16, 2022, 07:50:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2022, 08:05:53 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 08:51:50 AM
Solid opening partnership, unlucky from Burns to get out, especially as it must be past Green's bedtime (he looks like a huge toddler, a bit like the baby in Toy Story 3). I don't feel confident we'll win, only a 250 run opening partnership would actually have made me feel confident tbh, but if all the batsen can apply themselves like these two have done so far, we have a shot.
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 09:22:49 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 09:32:18 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2022, 09:44:55 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2022, 09:56:24 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 09:58:40 AM
Stokes you idiot.
He's a tailender who doesn't bowl at the moment. He's not good enough to be number 5.
Post by: Lsvilla on January 16, 2022, 10:07:17 AM
What's happened to Malan? Very good start to the series and now playing like a quiz winner.Not an excuse for overall form but maybe a factor in this knock - his wife gave birth last night 6 weeks early back here in England.
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2022, 10:24:20 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2022, 10:25:19 AM
Wow thats hard. May be the team management should have sent him home?What's happened to Malan? Very good start to the series and now playing like a quiz winner.Not an excuse for overall form but maybe a factor in this knock - his wife gave birth last night 6 weeks early back here in England.
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 10:26:54 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 10:32:12 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on January 16, 2022, 10:42:01 AM
I don’t think they could do anything as it was premature by quite a few weeks.Wow thats hard. May be the team management should have sent him home?What's happened to Malan? Very good start to the series and now playing like a quiz winner.Not an excuse for overall form but maybe a factor in this knock - his wife gave birth last night 6 weeks early back here in England.
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 10:43:03 AM
Post by: Risso on January 16, 2022, 10:59:14 AM
Post by: simboy on January 16, 2022, 10:59:53 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 16, 2022, 11:02:46 AM
I wonder if we'll see hide or hair of Boland again after this series. When England are having one of these tours, I reckon the Aussies could pick a random supporter before each match and they'll somehow get a 5-for. I feel our batsmen don't treat their bowlers as bowlers, but Aussie Bowlers. An Aussie Bowler is some kind of super-bowler, even if in reality they are not.
Maybe, as the pundits on SKY were saying that he would be a great overseas signing for a County given the line and lengths he bowls.
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 11:04:36 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 16, 2022, 11:07:38 AM
I thought that the umpires were really good this series.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 16, 2022, 11:09:52 AM
Total and utter capitulation. Can’t field, can’t bat, can’t bowl.
I always want England to win of course, but I suppose the one positive of the series ending like that is there is no hiding place now. Having scraped a draw in the last test, had they somehow managed to get a result in this one, they would have waffled on about how they improved and will take that into the next series etc. etc.
The nature of the defeat today though means there can be none of that and they will all have to face serious questions.
Post by: manic-road on January 16, 2022, 12:05:05 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 16, 2022, 12:13:43 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 16, 2022, 12:14:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2022, 01:24:07 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 16, 2022, 01:54:36 PM
Our batting has been in decline for several years, it’s reached a new low on this tour but it’s no massive surprise that it’s been so poor.
Post by: UK Redsox on January 16, 2022, 02:07:27 PM
Silverwood has to go and I think Root will survive as captain due to a lack of credible options.
Yep, that's how I see it.
The only other options as captain of Stokes and Buttler. It's too much to ask of the former and the latter isn't worth his place in the side at the moment.
Post by: Gareth on January 16, 2022, 09:29:06 PM
Root was spot on in saying any England test success is despite county cricket rather than because of it….nothing good comes of playing proper cricket in April & late September in UK….bin the E number snacks nonsense BS competition & play Blast & 50 over around the proper game….test cricket is king & always should be
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 16, 2022, 09:37:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 16, 2022, 09:43:48 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 16, 2022, 10:04:29 PM
Getting rid of Coach/Captain etc is like rearranging the deck chairs. There is not much they can do when they have no international class cricketers to select. So how about playing some serious red ball cricket and making Test team the top priority?
It's a fair point Aftab, I think it goes deeper. They need to split the roles of one day and test for me too. Paul and Gareth are also correct about playing red ball cricket at the worst times in England. The whole season should be restructured and there is absolutely no reason, if it is done properly, that they could combine both formats at the same time.
Post by: Gareth on January 16, 2022, 10:50:33 PM
Getting rid of Coach/Captain etc is like rearranging the deck chairs. There is not much they can do when they have no international class cricketers to select. So how about playing some serious red ball cricket and making Test team the top priority?It is like rearranging the deckchairs however all is too cosy in the England camp, it’s a mates culture when you hear players calling the coach by nickname. They need a coach who wants to coach not be their drinking buddy for nights out. Kirsten seems a logical choice, get him in and put a bomb under the test side, toughen up these players
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2022, 01:11:45 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 17, 2022, 01:39:05 AM
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2022, 01:49:12 AM
I’m claiming that one Rory….back at start of December :-)
Then you were bang on, sir!
312 over two innings in Hobart. Fucking shameful.
Post by: Rory on January 17, 2022, 01:52:07 AM
Just can’t see England getting anything over there, if Root doesn’t get a century (which he hasn’t done over there yet) I don’t see England getting 300+ in any innings
For the avoidance of doubt.
I hope you put a bet on, Gareth?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 17, 2022, 07:16:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2022, 08:15:11 AM
At the moment there are too many games and too much focus on short-term returns. But counties and the ECB need to sort it. If England’s Test cricket dies - and it is in a really bad place - then the first class game dies and the other stuff will follow.
Post by: Gareth on January 17, 2022, 10:48:51 AM
Unfortunately not :-) though I suspect the odds wouldn’t have been great anywayJust can’t see England getting anything over there, if Root doesn’t get a century (which he hasn’t done over there yet) I don’t see England getting 300+ in any innings
For the avoidance of doubt.
I hope you put a bet on, Gareth?
Post by: Gareth on January 17, 2022, 11:02:14 AM
Agnew is proposing a radical restructuring of the domestic red ball game as a solution. That's not going to change anything if our top players don't ever play in it, whatever shape it takes. Wasn't that little cameo from Woakes at the arse end of last season his first Championship games for the Bears since he was about 9?
He is another falling into the trap of heading towards franchise cricket - the solution is not just saying we are stuck with the Hundred - if true cricket fans don’t attend it or don’t watch it on TV the tourists will soon get bored and it will hopefully die on its arse. T20 is the only shit & giggles format needed.
Start the season with 50 over comp group games, have a 3 week window early summer for Blast group games (double headers with womens game giving spectators more cricket) & a 3 division Couny Championship with promotion / relegation played over the summer months so the batsmen have a chance of actually batting rather than surviving against a moving ball.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 17, 2022, 12:14:23 PM
I don't like the idea of Franchise red ball cricket, but think regional cricket might be a better way to go. 6 regional teams from the 18 counties (Warks, Worcs and Northants would make the Central region) and schedule the games in the lead up to the test series. Maybe try and include Scotland and Ireland and you could do it in two groups of four and every County in the region would get to host a game.
Having a draft etc. for a red ball competition just sounds a bit rubbish.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2022, 12:42:35 PM
Post by: Steve67 on January 17, 2022, 07:36:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2022, 08:11:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2022, 09:00:36 PM
That is clearly indicative of too much player power and a team unwilling to listen to challenging voices. That team needs to get out of its echo chamber, because indulging it like this has clearly failed.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 18, 2022, 10:00:47 AM
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
Post by: Risso on January 18, 2022, 10:47:03 AM
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
Terrible idea. It would be like doing away with Premier League teams and having "West Midlands Wizards" and "North East Knights" etc.
Post by: Gareth on January 18, 2022, 11:06:51 AM
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
That is basically the Nottinghamshire model-they used the other non test ground counties to build their team.
I can see the benefits of a competition where the best players come together ie Warwickshire / Worcestershire / Northants best XI vs Somerset / Gloucestershire / Glamorgan best XI BUT the first requirement is to get back to red ball County Champioship cricket as THE priority in the actual summer months. Maybe the representative games could go to Dubai after the season has finished or before it begins in UK.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 18, 2022, 08:18:19 PM
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
Terrible idea. It would be like doing away with Premier League teams and having "West Midlands Wizards" and "North East Knights" etc.
Think the counties would still exist In his model, but there would be a level above that, which would be the new franchise league he is talking about
Post by: tomd2103 on January 18, 2022, 08:25:35 PM
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
That is basically the Nottinghamshire model-they used the other non test ground counties to build their team.
I can see the benefits of a competition where the best players come together ie Warwickshire / Worcestershire / Northants best XI vs Somerset / Gloucestershire / Glamorgan best XI BUT the first requirement is to get back to red ball County Champioship cricket as THE priority in the actual summer months. Maybe the representative games could go to Dubai after the season has finished or before it begins in UK.
A regional model like the one you mention above would be my choice Gareth, but I would have it in the build up to the test series over the summer. That would give the test players better quality preparation and would give a chance to see any potential internationals in a better level of competition. It would only be 5 games, so would give the opportunity for the County Championship to continue.
I have always loved the County Championship, but part of the problem in development terms is the small division sizes mean teams yo-yo about a bit and you end up at times with some of the better players playing in the lower tier, which is not ideal.
Post by: Gareth on January 18, 2022, 10:18:23 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 21, 2022, 12:26:37 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60066220
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 22, 2022, 08:12:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 22, 2022, 08:42:38 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 22, 2022, 08:49:19 PM
39-6
Post by: UK Redsox on January 22, 2022, 09:05:58 PM
“ England have now lost their last 15 wickets for 85 runs across two formats.”
Post by: tomd2103 on January 24, 2022, 12:08:16 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 24, 2022, 09:47:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2022, 09:49:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2022, 10:01:03 PM
This is also a rather makeshift England team.
Post by: Gareth on January 26, 2022, 10:35:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2022, 10:42:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2022, 10:57:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 26, 2022, 11:33:43 PM
Now I'd take solid knocks from Salt and Brook to settle them in.
Post by: paul_e on January 27, 2022, 12:03:41 AM
Chasing a target like that you need every batsman to hae a positie impact and sadly Vince, Moeen, Livingstone and Brook, for different reasons, weren't quite up to it.
Livvingstone was a strange one, he looked far too ill to be on the pitch, he wasn't himself at all.
Post by: Rory on January 27, 2022, 12:34:31 AM
Without making excuses, how many miles have our lads (and India, to be fair) put in over the last 18 months? International cricket just seems to have lost all sense of order.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 27, 2022, 10:42:23 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 28, 2022, 03:18:03 PM
Collingwood hasn’t really read the room.
Can appreciate that 'bubble life' is difficult (though members of the armed forces and off shore workers may be better placed to comment on just how difficult it is) , but the question then needs to be raised as to why the ECB have scheduled so many games. You can't really have the ECB putting together a ridiculous schedule for purely financial purposes and then start moaning about how difficult it is for the players.
Post by: Richard on January 28, 2022, 09:35:41 PM
Post by: Rory on January 29, 2022, 01:37:24 AM
The individuals have changed, but I still feel like they'd rather sell a dog to a butcher from Yulin for £2.50 than to a shelter for £2.49 - as long as that 1p went into their pockets.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 29, 2022, 11:24:14 PM
The ECB are as bad as FIFA/UEFA it's all about the quantity and so the quality will invariably suffer.
Yep and I do also find it funny that you never hear any complaints from players about 'bubble life' during the IPL, it's only when they are on international duty.
Understand that the financial rewards of the IPL, but again find it a bit much that they accept the
contracts and are handsomely rewarded to play in these tournaments and the different formats for England, but then start moaning about how hard they are finding living out of hotels.
Post by: Gareth on January 30, 2022, 12:05:58 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 30, 2022, 08:09:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 30, 2022, 09:19:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 30, 2022, 09:30:24 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 31, 2022, 06:13:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on January 31, 2022, 07:50:48 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 02, 2022, 07:10:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2022, 08:17:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2022, 08:26:27 PM
Post by: Gareth on February 02, 2022, 11:09:24 PM
Post by: manic-road on February 03, 2022, 07:09:55 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 03, 2022, 07:15:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 03, 2022, 07:52:30 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 03, 2022, 08:25:18 PM
Had to as well. I have faith that Strauss knows what he’s doing.
It was an uninspiring appointment in the first place. England should be coached by one of the elite world coaches.
Post by: Steve67 on February 03, 2022, 10:33:08 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 03, 2022, 11:07:32 PM
Suppose there could have been an argument that Silverwood could have stayed on with the white ball side of things where we have done well under him and just looked at revamping the red ball side of things.
Sky Sports news were saying that Collingwood, Alec Stewart and Richard Dawson were some of the names in the frame to take temporary charge in the West Indies, I know it's only a temporary appointment, but it's hardly an inspiring shortlist.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 04, 2022, 07:14:37 AM
I think Root should also go but think that he will stay on purely because there is no-one to replace him. The potential candidates aren’t guaranteed a starting place in the side which is a pretty damning indictment of the red ball game in this country.
ECB if you marginalise red ball cricket in favour of white ball riches then this is the result.
Post by: DaveD on February 04, 2022, 10:53:40 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 04, 2022, 11:11:11 AM
Post by: Martin Carruthers on February 04, 2022, 11:20:10 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 04, 2022, 11:38:25 AM
Buttler's not worth his place, Mo's been messed around so much that he wants nothing to do with it and it would be unfair to land the captaincy on Stokes
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 05, 2022, 01:09:25 AM
Post by: OzVilla on February 05, 2022, 01:54:22 AM
Sounds absolutely perfect for England. Aussie who’ll shake things up with a massive point to prove.
Post by: Steve67 on February 05, 2022, 06:24:42 PM
Justin Langer has just resigned as Australian coach. They reckon he was too intense and upset some if the players, in particular Pat Cummins.
Sounds absolutely perfect for England. Aussie who’ll shake things up with a massive point to prove.
He will have something to prove against the Aussies if we appoint him. Has a bit of grit about him. Something we need.
Post by: olaftab on February 06, 2022, 02:21:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60270695
Post by: LeeB on February 06, 2022, 02:47:19 PM
Some bad news here about Chris Cairns.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60270695
Bloody hell, poor sod.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 07, 2022, 03:55:28 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 08, 2022, 05:57:26 PM
It has to be said the dancing ladies at the final were exceptional.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 08, 2022, 07:34:30 PM
Post by: Rory on February 08, 2022, 08:17:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2022, 08:24:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 08, 2022, 08:46:42 PM
No Jimmy or Broad for the Windies tour.Correct call. Two amazing cricketers who have given all for England but it's time to move on now.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 08, 2022, 08:49:50 PM
No Jimmy or Broad for the Windies tour.Correct call. Two amazing cricketers who have given all for England but it's time to move on now.
I must admit that I’m thinking the same. The romantic in me wants Jimmy to bow out on his own terms just like Cook did, however non-selection does tend to force the issue.
Post by: UK Redsox on February 08, 2022, 09:27:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 08, 2022, 09:45:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 08, 2022, 10:02:00 PM
No Jimmy or Broad for the Windies tour.Correct call. Two amazing cricketers who have given all for England but it's time to move on now.
I must admit that I’m thinking the same. The romantic in me wants Jimmy to bow out on his own terms just like Cook did, however non-selection does tend to force the issue.
I'd give Jimmy the New Zealand series at least as a 'bow out', I think he deserves that and it's not like he's been bowling poorly compared to the rest of the options. I do think he should be looking at stepping down at some point this summer though.
Post by: Steve67 on February 08, 2022, 10:11:01 PM
Post by: Rory on February 08, 2022, 10:49:51 PM
Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 09, 2022, 12:05:11 AM
I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.
Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.
Not sure Rory. I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room. Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.
It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records.
I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit. Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes.
Post by: Rory on February 09, 2022, 01:33:50 AM
I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.
Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.
Not sure Rory. I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room. Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.
It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records.
I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit. Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes.
I was speaking in terms of performance and on the basis that my character judgments of the players was purely speculation. But I have long had similar suspicions about their influence behind the scenes.
KP is and was a self-important cock, but I found his descriptions of the dressing room at the time very plausible. They'd had trouble with him previously, there was no guarantee he wouldn't dump England in public in favour of the IPL and other franchise cricket, so it was expedient for the ECB that he was identified as the problem and removed.
From 2012 onwards, Jimmy & Broad have been two of, if not the, senior players in the squad. For all the ridicule and horrific moments, look at the opposition our late 90s/early 00s teams faced. Australia being the most notable example. Look at that Australia vintage, and compare them to the Aussie sides England have faced on the last three tours.
That much-maligned England generation did not embarrass themselves in the way three touring parties featuring Anderson & Broad as senior bowlers have done.
I've never liked Broad who strikes me as a big time Charlie; and Jimmy, in spite of his performances, has been implicated in a number of drink-related disciplinary incidents, including having a drink poured over him by one of his own teammates in 2017, and on the recent tour, at age 39.
IF that is the case, the problem is - and maybe this was why a pliable yes man like Silverwood was picked - that if we are struggling to take wickets in May/June/September at Lord's or Trent Bridge, questions will be asked about why Anderson & Broad are not playing.
It would invite a lot of scrutiny over selection, pressure on the head coach, and it will take a big personality to drop the two highest wicket-takers in the history of English test cricket on the basis of something fans aren't privy to - like their influence on the dressing room.
Post by: Rory on February 09, 2022, 01:38:21 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 09, 2022, 12:30:17 PM
(Sorry for the length of that post)
It was a good read Rory! I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.
I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records. There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages. Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.
They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on. If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.
Post by: Rory on February 09, 2022, 03:20:48 PM
(Sorry for the length of that post)
It was a good read Rory! I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.
I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records. There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages. Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.
They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on. If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.
Yeah, I think Cook and Root have both been much too close to Anderson & Broad. I'd never heard that the cautious fields were in order to protect their averages, so that's an interesting take.
You may well be right, Tom, I just think that if it's based on information that is in the public domain, it would be a big call to say on any given day of test cricket in England, that at least one of Broad & Anderson wouldn't be in the top three or four seam bowlers most likely to take wickets.
Whoever our next coach is, they'll need to make some big decisions and have the strength and reputation to convince fans and the media to trust them. The last thing we need is another Peter Moores type, under pressure from the beginning.
Post by: olaftab on February 09, 2022, 05:03:11 PM
Rory can you elaborate on this? :)I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.
Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.
Not sure Rory. I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room. Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.
It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records.
I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit. Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes.
I was speaking in terms of performance and on the basis that my character judgments of the players was purely speculation. But I have long had similar suspicions about their influence behind the scenes.
KP is and was a self-important cock, but I found his descriptions of the dressing room at the time very plausible. They'd had trouble with him previously, there was no guarantee he wouldn't dump England in public in favour of the IPL and other franchise cricket, so it was expedient for the ECB that he was identified as the problem and removed.
From 2012 onwards, Jimmy & Broad have been two of, if not the, senior players in the squad. For all the ridicule and horrific moments, look at the opposition our late 90s/early 00s teams faced. Australia being the most notable example. Look at that Australia vintage, and compare them to the Aussie sides England have faced on the last three tours.
That much-maligned England generation did not embarrass themselves in the way three touring parties featuring Anderson & Broad as senior bowlers have done.
I've never liked Broad who strikes me as a big time Charlie; and Jimmy, in spite of his performances, has been implicated in a number of drink-related disciplinary incidents, including having a drink poured over him by one of his own teammates in 2017, and on the recent tour, at age 39.
IF that is the case, the problem is - and maybe this was why a pliable yes man like Silverwood was picked - that if we are struggling to take wickets in May/June/September at Lord's or Trent Bridge, questions will be asked about why Anderson & Broad are not playing.
It would invite a lot of scrutiny over selection, pressure on the head coach, and it will take a big personality to drop the two highest wicket-takers in the history of English test cricket on the basis of something fans aren't privy to - like their influence on the dressing room.
And I think you are bang on except for the matter under discussion. That being Broad and Anderson, they need to be "retired" forthwith.
Post by: Rory on February 09, 2022, 05:17:15 PM
You may well get your wish. I can understand wanting the team to move on, just so long as it's for the good of the team and not just symbolic.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 10, 2022, 12:21:43 AM
(Sorry for the length of that post)
It was a good read Rory! I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.
I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records. There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages. Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.
They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on. If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.
Yeah, I think Cook and Root have both been much too close to Anderson & Broad. I'd never heard that the cautious fields were in order to protect their averages, so that's an interesting take.
You may well be right, Tom, I just think that if it's based on information that is in the public domain, it would be a big call to say on any given day of test cricket in England, that at least one of Broad & Anderson wouldn't be in the top three or four seam bowlers most likely to take wickets.
Whoever our next coach is, they'll need to make some big decisions and have the strength and reputation to convince fans and the media to trust them. The last thing we need is another Peter Moores type, under pressure from the beginning.
You never hear the English commentators mentioning it, but I have heard a few Aussies and I seem to remember Shaun Pollock questioning why both of them had an extra cover in place and not have an extra fielder in a more attacking position. I've heard people over the years talking about them looking to protect their averages.
Post by: paul_e on February 10, 2022, 08:45:05 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 11, 2022, 09:23:15 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 11, 2022, 03:16:24 PM
England's World Cup squad: Heather Knight (captain), Nat Sciver (vice-captain), Tammy Beaumont, Katherine Brunt, Freya Davies, Charlie Dean, Sophia Dunkley, Kate Cross, Sophie Ecclestone, Tash Farrant, Amy Jones (wicketkeeper), Emma Lamb, Anya Shrubsole, Lauren Winfield-Hill, Danni Wyatt
Travelling reserves: Lauren Bell, Mady Villiers
DOC Jonathan Finch ....""The England Women's A series that ran alongside the Ashes enabled a wider group of players to compete for a place in the squad which has made for some tough calls on selection."
All very well saying that, but they then basically picked the same players as usual
Post by: Steve67 on February 13, 2022, 10:11:09 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 13, 2022, 10:19:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 17, 2022, 11:53:30 PM
I think that is unfair, reducing scoring opportunities helps build pressure.
I can see that Paul, but others might argue that the opening hour or so of a test match is about trying to get wickets and by leaving extra cover open, you might entice a batter to drive and nick off.
Comes down to the philosophy of the captain I suppose and as someone who has captained (at a much lower level cricket it has to be said!!) how to approach the start of your innings in the field is something I have wrestled with.
Post by: Risso on February 18, 2022, 09:03:48 AM
It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
Post by: Lsvilla on February 18, 2022, 09:54:10 AM
This. Plus Stuart Broad is 35. He gets attached to Anderson and then them treated as a pair but he’s significantly younger and has plenty still to offer. However, I do think it’s significant that Root has been happy for the both of them to be left out multiple times and wonder if their off-field influence is unwelcome in certain quarters - something the interim coach and interim MD would be well aware of.It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
Post by: paul_e on February 18, 2022, 09:55:08 AM
It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
Just from the Bears you have Stone and Norwell who've all been selected for England recently and Woakes will always be around the squad.
After that Carse and Mahmood will probably step up from the one day squad at some point and I'd be amazed if Sam Cook at Essex doesn't get a call up if he bowls as well as he did last season.
At some point we need to move on from them and we've hopefully hit our lowest point now so we might as well look at the options this summer whilst the whole squad is being cleaned up.
Post by: LeeB on February 18, 2022, 10:41:56 AM
This. Plus Stuart Broad is 35. He gets attached to Anderson and then them treated as a pair but he’s significantly younger and has plenty still to offer. However, I do think it’s significant that Root has been happy for the both of them to be left out multiple times and wonder if their off-field influence is unwelcome in certain quarters - something the interim coach and interim MD would be well aware of.It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
There were some pointed remarks between Anderson and Root in the press, when Root criticised the lengths being bowled after the test and Anderson replying that it in a round about way that he should have said something during the match, what with being captain and all.
I don't think there's much love lost, but I think it's the start of Root's problems rather than the end.
Post by: olaftab on February 18, 2022, 11:12:20 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 18, 2022, 11:32:22 AM
I think Root is also a problem as a captain. He overthinks the game due to his lack of strategic awareness and makes tactical errors during the game. However I cannot think of anyone around at the moment who could be a good Test captain.
Moeen.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 18, 2022, 12:51:31 PM
It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
Think it is about getting that balance right as well Risso, particularly away from home. Wanted to see Mahmood get a chance last summer, so hope he does this time around. Still firmly believe that Woakes need to open the bowling or not play in away test matches, but we might well need his batting. I'd be quite happy with a seam bowling line up in the first test of Woakes / Robinson, Mahmood, Wood and Stokes as the all-rounder.
The spin conundrum is another issue altogether.
Post by: paul_e on February 18, 2022, 02:04:03 PM
Post by: bilsim on March 04, 2022, 02:18:10 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 04, 2022, 02:52:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2022, 02:53:26 PM
Post by: Rory on March 04, 2022, 02:54:56 PM
Post by: saint13 on March 04, 2022, 03:10:39 PM
Not only the greatest spin bowler of all time, he was in my opinion, one of the best and most entertaining commentators.
Post by: Andy Poole on March 04, 2022, 03:28:16 PM
Post by: simboy on March 04, 2022, 03:56:59 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 04, 2022, 04:01:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2022, 04:57:55 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 04, 2022, 05:56:09 PM
This might be the passage of time but I can't recall ever hating him. Being terrified of him yes but not hatred. Maybe I need to find my posts from pre 2005 Ashes to refute this.
Post by: Villan For Life on March 04, 2022, 06:07:28 PM
Greatest player of my lifetime for sure. Second only to Bradman in history?
This might be the passage of time but I can't recall ever hating him. Being terrified of him yes but not hatred. Maybe I need to find my posts from pre 2005 Ashes to refute this.
I know what you mean, in Cricket I find that the greats of the game transcend national rivalries. I never hated the great Aussie players such as Warne, Gilchrist & McGrath, I admired them as world class players that I was privileged to see.
My love of Cricket was ignited by the great West Indian teams of the 70’s and 80’s and their world class players such as Sir Viv were heroes of mine.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on March 04, 2022, 07:14:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2022, 07:18:24 PM
Post by: saint13 on March 04, 2022, 07:45:10 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 04, 2022, 09:33:56 PM
A brilliant, brilliant bowler, good slip fielder and handy enough in the lower order with the bat. Had his problems, but always seemed a good sport. I remember being at Edgbaston on the first day of the 2nd Ashes test in 2005. He went for over 100 runs that day and was in the slips when the scoreboard updated to show he had conceded 100 runs. A big cheer went up.and you could see him and a few others looking round to see what the cheer was about. When he realised, he took his sun hat off and doffed it to all four sides of the ground. He bowled brilliantly in a losing cause in that series and think it showed what a competitor he was.
RIP Shane. A true icon who changed the game.
Post by: JD on March 04, 2022, 10:23:54 PM
A player who transcended national rivalries, a special talent the like of which we are unlikely to see again. At times he seemed to pick up wickets because of his reputation, he was in the batsman’s head before they’d faced a ball and by that point the batsman was halfway out already.
Totally agree. The number of players who would freeze when Warne came on to bowl. Him and McGrath were absolutely unplayable on their day, the best spin and fast bowlers in the world in their time together. I loved watching them play, even though they were Aussies.
Post by: Axl Rose on March 04, 2022, 10:25:14 PM
Post by: tony scott on March 05, 2022, 04:39:16 AM
Post by: Monty on March 05, 2022, 12:05:02 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 05, 2022, 01:14:44 PM
Honestly it's taken me the best part of 24 hours to process. I know that sounds a bit pathetic when talking about someone you don't know personally, but there we are. Warne exemplified something hard to define that I loved about the world, and it was weird to wake up in a world where he wasn't.Yes indeed. Well said Monty.
Post by: olaftab on March 05, 2022, 01:21:38 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on March 05, 2022, 02:08:47 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 05, 2022, 10:01:11 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on March 05, 2022, 10:26:06 PM
Shane Warne was first to 700 Test wickets, an unfathomable milestone. But judging Warne on stats is like counting how many words Shakespeare wrote. It misses the point. He redefined his art. He made legspin cool. He changed the game. The most influential cricketer of my lifetime.
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 07, 2022, 12:59:29 AM
What a player and what an entertainer!!
And probably the best captain the Aussies never had.
Post by: Rory on March 07, 2022, 03:32:38 AM
That spoke not only to the sense of shock but also to 30 years of respect, admiration and awe - through gritted teeth. He always felt like more than a man, more than just an opponent, like Ali. Somebody that transcends sport.
It's Shane Warne. Of course he can't be dead. The rest of us might, but Warney wouldn't do something as foolish as dying.
I don't have anything unique to add. I can only say that his passing has had a profound impact on me, just as his performances on the field did.
I like to think that for cricket fans, the prospect of the game without him is so painful because we don't want to imagine such a thing. The world was a richer and happier place for his presence.
RIP and "Bowled Shane!"
Post by: UK Redsox on March 07, 2022, 01:09:21 PM
The 12 for the first test
Joe Root (captain), Jonny Bairstow, Zak Crawley, Ben Foakes (wicketkeeper), Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach, Alex Lees, Saqib Mahmood, Craig Overton, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood
I expect it'll be one of Overton, Mahmood and Woakes to miss out
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 07, 2022, 07:30:13 PM
My love of Cricket was ignited by the great West Indian teams of the 70’s and 80’s and their world class players such as Sir Viv were heroes of mine.
Sir Viv Richards, 70 today. https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1500894052354560011
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2022, 07:42:34 PM
In the least shocking news of the England tour to the West Indies, Ollie Robinson is injured
The 12 for the first test
Joe Root (captain), Jonny Bairstow, Zak Crawley, Ben Foakes (wicketkeeper), Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach, Alex Lees, Saqib Mahmood, Craig Overton, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood
I expect it'll be one of Overton, Mahmood and Woakes to miss out
You do feel like Robinson needs some real intense work on his fitness.
Not a chance Woakes misses out - they see him as a leader and he’s critical to the tail’s batting.
Post by: paul_e on March 07, 2022, 11:47:35 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 08, 2022, 12:09:57 PM
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Post by: Axl Rose on March 08, 2022, 12:13:05 PM
Post by: Risso on March 08, 2022, 12:49:56 PM
Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Twat!
;)
Post by: paul_e on March 08, 2022, 02:01:34 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 08, 2022, 02:17:36 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 08, 2022, 02:23:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2022, 02:24:11 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 08, 2022, 02:50:53 PM
Post by: Risso on March 08, 2022, 03:31:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 08, 2022, 03:36:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2022, 03:38:54 PM
Post by: Risso on March 08, 2022, 04:05:15 PM
So many poor shots, it's like they've never played with a red ball before. For me this is a far worse performance than anything in Australia, it's a slow and pretty gentle wicket facing bowlers who are average at test level and we're throwing wickets away just as cheaply as we have against everyone else in the last couple of years.
It must be similar to what supporting Blues is like, just when you think they can't get any worse, they find new and innovative ways to be truly shit.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 08, 2022, 06:03:49 PM
Unless he is injured, leaving Mahmood out for Overton is a head scratcher. Just don't see it with Overton.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2022, 08:15:19 PM
Post by: Colhint on March 08, 2022, 08:17:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2022, 08:25:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2022, 08:27:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2022, 09:01:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 08, 2022, 09:37:08 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 09, 2022, 12:05:12 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 09, 2022, 12:50:41 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 09, 2022, 01:08:00 AM
😂Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Twat!
;)
Post by: Lsvilla on March 09, 2022, 02:07:52 AM
See you there !😂Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Twat!
;)
Post by: Villafirst on March 09, 2022, 08:00:31 AM
Post by: Risso on March 09, 2022, 11:28:49 AM
See you there !😂Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Twat!
;)
Twat!
Post by: UK Redsox on March 09, 2022, 12:05:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2022, 04:31:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2022, 04:58:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2022, 05:08:04 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 09, 2022, 06:09:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 09, 2022, 06:29:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2022, 07:45:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2022, 09:48:03 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 09, 2022, 11:04:48 PM
Could one of the H&V’ers in the ground please grab that trumpet and shove it where the sun don’t shineIt’s much worse when you are actually close to it and even worse when pissed up football tourist join in the we are army bollocks. Other annoying factor is the organised music and dancing girls after every over.
Post by: olaftab on March 09, 2022, 11:06:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 10, 2022, 07:38:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 10, 2022, 08:33:13 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 10, 2022, 10:41:30 PM
Our attack looks incredibly ordinary.
Away from home our attack is incredibly ordinary.
Post by: Gareth on March 10, 2022, 11:46:15 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 10, 2022, 11:56:42 PM
Think we are witnessing the last throws of Roots captaincy….who should be next?
There’s no credible alternative which is also part of the problem
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 11, 2022, 07:29:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 11, 2022, 03:26:13 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 11, 2022, 03:59:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 11, 2022, 04:16:01 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 11, 2022, 04:19:08 PM
Need to follow it up with another good session now, if we want to try to win the match we really need a to be going at 50-60% strike rate for the rest of the day to end with a lead of 200ish.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 11, 2022, 09:10:07 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 13, 2022, 08:39:14 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 14, 2022, 11:24:42 AM
To progress from the group stage, they now need to win their last three games and hope other results go their way
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 14, 2022, 11:44:04 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 14, 2022, 01:34:23 PM
Yep England seem like quite a stagnant team - a lot of players who have been around a long while.
Yep.
As I posted when the squad was announced
DOC Jonathan Finch ....""The England Women's A series that ran alongside the Ashes enabled a wider group of players to compete for a place in the squad which has made for some tough calls on selection."
All very well saying that, but they then basically picked the same players as usual
It's at the point now where the opposition can have an early bash a Ecclestone, then just play her out if need be.
The rest of the bowlers aren't feared.
Fielding appears to have gone to pot as well
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 14, 2022, 02:13:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 16, 2022, 01:34:04 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 16, 2022, 02:04:07 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 16, 2022, 02:20:15 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 16, 2022, 06:35:59 PM
Away from our game, that was some innings by Babar Azam to salvage a draw.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2022, 07:50:08 PM
Lawrence is looking really promising.
Post by: Beard82 on March 16, 2022, 08:36:02 PM
Root is having some 18 months.Yeah Roots a great cricketer - if only we could find a couple of openers...
Lawrence is looking really promising.
Post by: Villan For Life on March 16, 2022, 09:21:53 PM
The pitch is a bit of a road again but I can’t help but think we will be all out for around 300. We never take advantage of strong positions.
Post by: paul_e on March 17, 2022, 11:27:43 AM
So disappointing to lose Lawrence so close to stumps. That sort of expansive shot isn’t needed in the last over of the day!
The pitch is a bit of a road again but I can’t help but think we will be all out for around 300. We never take advantage of strong positions.
I disagree. Over the last few years the problem has bene that people like Stokes, Bairstow, Woakes, Buttler, Curran, Foakes, etc (it's a very long list) have been getting to the crease with an objective of saving the innings. By getting proper runs out of the top 4 as we have we're now in a position of asking thme to come in and win us the game instead, which is what you really want from 5-8. It's a shame Lawrence went because the perfect situation would've been for him and Root to see off the first few overs and then start the acceleration.
Post by: Gareth on March 17, 2022, 12:18:24 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 17, 2022, 03:56:32 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 17, 2022, 04:11:26 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on March 17, 2022, 04:29:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 17, 2022, 09:14:44 PM
I agree, you get 300-4 and batsmen 6-11 have a bit of freedom - we’ve seen it in the past with likes of Mo, Bairstow, Stokes, Prior & even Swann - if they had a good base they had the ability & attitude to take opposition out of games in a session. This has happened so rarely recently that you hope today we’ll cash in on the batsmen playing properly yesterday, been a long time coming.
Worked out exactly as we hoped with particularly impressive knocks from Stokes and Woakes to hurry the game along. We really need another wicket or 2 tonight though to create a bit of scoreboard pressure tomorrow.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 18, 2022, 09:37:19 AM
Having never seen Fisher bowl before I was impressed. He looks skilful and has some good variety.
Mahmood is a really good older ball bowler and it’s nice to have that. It brings some balance throughout the innings.
Post by: tomd2103 on March 18, 2022, 09:04:28 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 18, 2022, 09:13:11 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 18, 2022, 09:32:57 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 19, 2022, 07:51:20 PM
However, the best two young co-commentators are both in the BT studio. Carlos Brathwaite and Steven Finn. Hopefully we’ll hear them on TMS over the summer.
Post by: paul_e on March 19, 2022, 07:55:45 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 20, 2022, 01:21:25 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on March 24, 2022, 11:29:57 AM
Jade Dernbach was part of the Talksport commentary team today. He’s pretty good.
However, the best two young co-commentators are both in the BT studio. Carlos Brathwaite and Steven Finn. Hopefully we’ll hear them on TMS over the summer.
I think Curtley Ambrose is very good - knows his stuff, doesn't follow the current vogue of talking non stop about very little, and has a great accent.
Post by: PGW on March 24, 2022, 11:38:47 AM
I hope we don't hear too much from Carlos....he's skippering the Bears push for T20 glory...lolJade Dernbach was part of the Talksport commentary team today. He’s pretty good.
However, the best two young co-commentators are both in the BT studio. Carlos Brathwaite and Steven Finn. Hopefully we’ll hear them on TMS over the summer.
I think Curtley Ambrose is very good - knows his stuff, doesn't follow the current vogue of talking non stop about very little, and has a great accent.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 24, 2022, 04:06:22 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 24, 2022, 05:06:02 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 24, 2022, 05:06:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 24, 2022, 05:29:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 24, 2022, 06:01:27 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 24, 2022, 06:48:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 24, 2022, 08:03:52 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 24, 2022, 08:46:03 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 24, 2022, 09:01:23 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 24, 2022, 09:32:04 PM
Has there ever been an innings where 10 and 11 are top scorers?
Every England innings when Root gets out cheaply?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 24, 2022, 09:37:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 24, 2022, 09:43:33 PM
Post by: OzVilla on March 25, 2022, 04:47:32 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 25, 2022, 05:51:40 AM
Another fucking pathetic effort to add to the plethora of fucking pathetic efforts. Is Graham Thorpe still enjoying 6 month holidays abroad as the batting coach?
He was sacked after the Ashes.
Post by: KevinGage on March 25, 2022, 03:09:46 PM
Used to be that the bowling attack could get an iffy batting lineup out of jail.
Post by: paul_e on March 25, 2022, 05:43:27 PM
Innocuous stuff from England so far.
Used to be that the bowling attack could get an iffy batting lineup out of jail.
100-6 now so not as innocuous as it might seem.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 25, 2022, 05:45:56 PM
Post by: Holte132 on March 25, 2022, 05:52:20 PM
Has there ever been an innings where 10 and 11 are top scorers?
They mentioned it this morning. Some time back in the 1880s I think they said!
Post by: paul_e on March 25, 2022, 05:57:18 PM
Post by: KevinGage on March 25, 2022, 06:02:39 PM
Innocuous stuff from England so far.
Used to be that the bowling attack could get an iffy batting lineup out of jail.
100-6 now so not as innocuous as it might seem.
Yeah, that was posted after 16 overs.
The game has moved on a wee bit since then, with a half fit Stokes the lightning rod (as usual).
Post by: paul_e on March 25, 2022, 06:10:33 PM
Innocuous stuff from England so far.
Used to be that the bowling attack could get an iffy batting lineup out of jail.
100-6 now so not as innocuous as it might seem.
Yeah, that was posted after 16 overs.
The game has moved on a wee bit since then, with a half fit Stokes the lightning rod (as usual).
I know, was just pointing out how quickly things had changed.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 25, 2022, 08:36:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 25, 2022, 08:39:02 PM
Post by: Rory on March 25, 2022, 11:36:45 PM
Has there ever been an innings where 10 and 11 are top scorers?
They mentioned it this morning. Some time back in the 1880s I think they said!
I just looked up the test when Jason Gillespie made 200, thinking there must've been some high scores in the lower order there. But of course, he was nightwatchman.
Post by: Gareth on March 26, 2022, 04:19:05 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 26, 2022, 04:30:02 PM
Need to not let them off the hook like they did to us
That didn't happen then
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 26, 2022, 04:31:09 PM
I’m going for 5 wickets down before England achieve parity….
Based on how the game has gone so far that will give a decent platform for the lower order maestros to do their thing.
Post by: Villafirst on March 26, 2022, 06:01:41 PM
Post by: Risso on March 26, 2022, 06:16:44 PM
Why not turn the batting order upside down? The top order is dire and has been for years. Lower order to the rescue, again!
Yep. We should just pick ten specialist bowlers. They wouldn't do any worse than the recognised top order and we'd have loads of bowling options.
Post by: Gareth on March 26, 2022, 06:41:06 PM
Post by: Steve67 on March 26, 2022, 06:48:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2022, 07:00:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2022, 08:36:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2022, 08:42:56 PM
Pitch offers anything and England fall apart.
Post by: Beard82 on March 26, 2022, 08:52:12 PM
Post by: Villafirst on March 26, 2022, 09:04:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2022, 09:17:09 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 26, 2022, 09:41:34 PM
Pathetic winter….
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2022, 09:51:15 PM
This now needs to be a blank sheet of paper. Mentality is one of the things they have to address.
Post by: Beard82 on March 26, 2022, 10:08:22 PM
Agree he’s a much better player then captain but how many of those players are certain starters to the degree they could be captains
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 26, 2022, 10:10:31 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 26, 2022, 10:33:29 PM
It’s tricky because if not Root then who?
Agree he’s a much better player then captain but how many of those players are certain starters to the degree they could be captains
Whoever the best English qualified captain is in County Championship….when you have 1 and a half test class batsmen in the top 6 you can pick a captain to bat 6 because they aren’t likely to do worse than the current gutless wonders & they are worth their position if they captain properly
Post by: Beard82 on March 26, 2022, 10:40:43 PM
Fair point - there’s space in the team for something new because so few are performingIt’s tricky because if not Root then who?
Agree he’s a much better player then captain but how many of those players are certain starters to the degree they could be captains
Whoever the best English qualified captain is in County Championship….when you have 1 and a half test class batsmen in the top 6 you can pick a captain to bat 6 because they aren’t likely to do worse than the current gutless wonders & they are worth their position if they captain properly
Post by: paul_e on March 26, 2022, 11:41:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 27, 2022, 12:01:02 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 27, 2022, 12:10:49 AM
Think it was Mark Nicholas who said that Root had looked like a broken man in the field earlier and wouldn't be surprised if he resigned.
Post by: charlatan on March 27, 2022, 12:15:04 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 27, 2022, 08:35:30 AM
I think they have always thought Stokes would get it eventually but will he take it given the added stress of the position?
Post by: Dante Lavelli on March 27, 2022, 09:03:57 AM
Am I right in thinking Rory Burns was a successful county captain? I know he hardly set the world alight as a batter but don't think he was significantly worse than some of the others who had a go.
I think they have always thought Stokes would get it eventually but will he take it given the added stress of the position?
I’m not saying he is/isn’t a good captain but he plays for Surrey so should be winning everything. They have WAY more money and support compared to the other counties.
Post by: Proposition Joe on March 27, 2022, 11:56:21 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 27, 2022, 12:59:34 PM
Don't know what everyone's so angry about. The lads will be disappointed, but will take away the positives. What more do you want?
Are you Paul Lambert? Only thing missing was "We go again" at the end.
Post by: Risso on March 27, 2022, 01:18:41 PM
Don't know what everyone's so angry about. The lads will be disappointed, but will take away the positives. What more do you want?
Are you Paul Lambert? Only thing missing was "We go again" at the end.
I think he was taking the piss.
Post by: Proposition Joe on March 27, 2022, 01:31:32 PM
Post by: Risso on March 27, 2022, 05:11:16 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 27, 2022, 06:31:57 PM
Fuck the lot of 'em.
Post by: N'ZMAV on March 27, 2022, 07:58:07 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on March 27, 2022, 08:40:19 PM
Well there we go. Root thinks we’ve played lots of brilliant cricket.He should have been sat where I have been for the last 3 weeks. Apart from the charge for runs at Antigua and Barbados to set up declarations it's been very poor fayre. And our bowlers will get absolutely mullered in Pakistan. Pity their number 6 he's got very little chance of getting a bat.
Post by: KevinGage on March 27, 2022, 11:59:45 PM
Fundamental change at all levels, yes.
But in the immediate future -if he can be persuaded there's enough quality to work with (not a given) go all out for Justin Langer.
Some of the older heads might not like his abrasive style, but fcuk it, they're not really in a position to argue after the last few years. They've had Trevor Bayliss and then Chris Silverwood telling them how special they are for all the good that's done.
Some of the recent selections have been bollocks as well. Maybe leave one of Broad and Anderson at home (Anderson for the most recent series, if it's about managing his workload). Not both. Particularly as the decision seemed more about insulating Root's captaincy. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.
On that subject, I don't see how he stays on now. There isn't an obvious candidate if they avoid the two main bowlers, so it's the county scene - and the prospect of a Sam Billings or a Tom Abell learning on the job as captain at international level as well as handling the batting transition. Neither have incredible FC averages.
Marcus Trescothick will most likely still be part of the set up - particularly if Langer gets the gig - and he'll know Abell's game and leadership qualities at least.
Post by: olaftab on March 28, 2022, 12:48:14 AM
Agreed mate. The problem is watching this live out here I could not see anything at all in the England set up up to make the difference. After the first two tests I said there will be no change in Grenada unless something happens that fundamentally impacts on type of cricket being played by two very ordinary teams. West Indies made that change and addition of Kyle Mayers turned the series in their favour. We did nothing to change anything and deserved nothing.Well there we go. Root thinks we’ve played lots of brilliant cricket.He should have been sat where I have been for the last 3 weeks. Apart from the charge for runs at Antigua and Barbados to set up declarations it's been very poor fayre. And our bowlers will get absolutely mullered in Pakistan. Pity their number 6 he's got very little chance of getting a bat.
Post by: charlatan on March 28, 2022, 12:50:16 AM
We're at the sharp end now of relentlessly shite administration by a load of cloth eared, elitist, and all round racist twats, only interested in taking Sky's cash and keeping the riff-raff and any of the 'darkies' out of their game.
Fuck the lot of 'em.
How did Mahmood get in the team? And before him Archer and Rashid? Were these administrators being so relentlessly shite that they didn't notice or are you talking bollocks?
Post by: olaftab on March 28, 2022, 01:22:20 AM
Post by: Rory on March 28, 2022, 01:59:56 AM
No Lee is not talking bollocks. Somethings are obvious and can not be denied such as Archer and Mahmood but in all honestly not enough is being done to allow the latent talent to come through. We need a change and not just at Yorkshire CC.
Apart from the results, did you enjoy yourself out there, Aftab? Always looks a great place to tour.
Post by: olaftab on March 28, 2022, 02:14:35 AM
Post by: Rory on March 28, 2022, 02:16:06 AM
Pig in shit mate. Thanks to Joe and Co we have had another great afternoon/evening on the beach😊
Silver linings, eh 😁
Post by: Lsvilla on March 28, 2022, 02:49:53 AM
Pig in shit mate. Thanks to Joe and Co we have had another great afternoon/evening on the beach😊When you heading home ? Be good to catch up for a quick beer if you have a chance. If only to talk about the summer signings !
We're booked in at Patrick's tomorrow evening then will probably head to umbrellas for an hour or so after just to see what's going on. No plans Tuesday at the moment. Fly Wednesday evening.
Post by: OzVilla on March 28, 2022, 05:38:38 AM
The bowling is just bland, so many bowlers who are decent but just not quite good enough, lack that yard or 2 of pace or that ability to turn a game with a storming spell. We can't build pressure either as we bowl so many poor balls.
Our fielding is atrocious, we just don't look switched on at all half the time, when was the last time a piece of fielding changed the momentum of an innings. And all the while we've been Captained by arguably the worst skipper we've had in my time following England. He has shown no tactical nous and just follows the ball. His decision making is appalling.
All in all we are as far away now from becoming the best Test team in the world as I think we've ever been, I was around in the late 80's and 90's.
Post by: olaftab on March 28, 2022, 01:41:06 PM
Flying to Barbados early Tuesday morning for onward connection to Heathrow. Planning to be in Umbrellas later today. If we are not there we will be in shack over on the left by the beach. Hopefully see you there😊Pig in shit mate. Thanks to Joe and Co we have had another great afternoon/evening on the beach😊When you heading home ? Be good to catch up for a quick beer if you have a chance. If only to talk about the summer signings !
We're booked in at Patrick's tomorrow evening then will probably head to umbrellas for an hour or so after just to see what's going on. No plans Tuesday at the moment. Fly Wednesday evening.
Post by: olaftab on March 28, 2022, 04:52:32 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 29, 2022, 12:33:24 AM
Don't know what everyone's so angry about. The lads will be disappointed, but will take away the positives. What more do you want?
Are you Paul Lambert? Only thing missing was "We go again" at the end.
I think he was taking the piss.
I know, but it sounded exactly like the kind of tripe Lambert would come out with!
It's hard to see where we go from here really. I heard Pietersen on the radio earlier saying Root wasn't to blame, as the players just aren't there. I agree with that to a point, but it's the manner of the defeats and the way they have just given up at times which is alarming, and Root has to take responsibility for that.
On the bowling front, injuries to Archer, Wood, Robinson and Stone haven't helped, along with the decision to leave out Broad and Anderson. On the batting front, we just can't find a top three who can deliver as a unit on anything like a consistent basis. We've looked at so many options in those positions and some have scored runs at times, but they just seem to fold under pressure far too often.
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 29, 2022, 12:45:15 AM
The Brearley years show the importance of having a good captain at this level. Mike wasn't a good enough batsman but he got the best out of the other ten!
Post by: UK Redsox on March 30, 2022, 03:03:12 PM
Not only that, they managed to finish third and thus avoid playing Australia.
They play South Africa tonight
The Aussies comfortably beat the West Indies in the first semi.
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 30, 2022, 05:01:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 30, 2022, 05:37:20 PM
Good grief, Colly always seems a nice enough bloke but if there’s ever evidence that we need a new voice from outside the dressing room this is it. He’s “amazed” how much Root gets questioned…he’s the captain of a team that’s won 1 of their last 17 matches. I get there are many contributing factors, but captaincy is one of them and ultimately the captain is accountable.
Post by: nigel on March 30, 2022, 07:40:52 PM
Hard to believe that Root could get worse as a captain, but he is doing. He's that bad that only Gower ranks lower in my experience.
The Brearley years show the importance of having a good captain at this level. Mike wasn't a good enough batsman but he got the best out of the other ten!
Ian Botham was the classic one.
One of the, if not the, best all rounders in his time, made captain and seemed to lose everything.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 30, 2022, 08:47:35 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 30, 2022, 11:13:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 30, 2022, 11:18:14 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on March 30, 2022, 11:20:57 PM
Post by: Rory on March 31, 2022, 12:01:42 AM
I watched the Warne memorial earlier. There were some fantastic stories about him but it was very emotional with some dust in eye moments when his kids spoke.
Definitely, I was tearing up at his brother, so when his kids then came on it was too much.
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 31, 2022, 01:06:15 AM
Post by: JD on March 31, 2022, 07:58:33 AM
Mainly for olaftab as having just met him I know he travels - and the NZ correspondents on here - but I overheard last night from a tour operator the word is Mount Maunganui 16 Feb 2023 followed by Hamilton the week after. Warm up game in Christchurch area before the first test. Would seem to be backed up by lack of availability already of the apartments in Mt M we used last time on those dates (of course players and journos and tour groups get this stuff first).
If you can't get an apartment in the Mount try Tauranga, it's part of the same city and just down the road.
Anyone interested in coming to Christchurch for any games let me know.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 31, 2022, 08:01:48 AM
Post by: JD on March 31, 2022, 08:18:10 AM
England women cruising to victory
Excellent. I'll be able to go to the final at the weekend.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 31, 2022, 09:02:41 AM
Post by: Colhint on March 31, 2022, 03:13:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 31, 2022, 11:10:23 PM
Good stuff. Thanks both.Mainly for olaftab as having just met him I know he travels - and the NZ correspondents on here - but I overheard last night from a tour operator the word is Mount Maunganui 16 Feb 2023 followed by Hamilton the week after. Warm up game in Christchurch area before the first test. Would seem to be backed up by lack of availability already of the apartments in Mt M we used last time on those dates (of course players and journos and tour groups get this stuff first).
If you can't get an apartment in the Mount try Tauranga, it's part of the same city and just down the road.
Anyone interested in coming to Christchurch for any games let me know.
Planning has started already😊
It was shocking home coming today straight from 30 degrees in to driving sleet😩
Post by: UK Redsox on April 03, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on April 03, 2022, 08:19:07 AM
Post by: JD on April 03, 2022, 09:00:38 AM
Post by: Rory on April 06, 2022, 06:37:10 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 15, 2022, 09:01:25 AM
Post by: Steve67 on April 15, 2022, 12:29:04 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 15, 2022, 01:35:06 PM
I’ve said it before but you if it’s a batsman you can select the best captain and slot them into that top 6 without weakening the side…whenever he’s spoke I’ve always been impressed by Billings, seems to have a good cricket brain.
Whoever gets the gig I hope their social media is clear as you can bet the gutter press & plebs will be dissecting every post they’ve ever made
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 15, 2022, 02:58:19 PM
Post by: Steve67 on April 17, 2022, 02:26:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 17, 2022, 03:21:16 PM
Rob Key announced as Managing Director? Wow.
That’s an underwhelming appointment to say the very least.
Post by: Martin Carruthers on April 17, 2022, 04:41:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 17, 2022, 06:48:52 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on April 17, 2022, 10:22:42 PM
Darren Gough being appointed by Yorkshire was a bit of an eyebrow raiser, but Rob Key being appointed to arguably the most important job in English cricket is even more of a surprise. Given the proximity of the announcement to Joe Root's resignation, you do wonder whether the two were linked.
Post by: UK Redsox on April 19, 2022, 03:34:06 PM
As well as his commentating work, he was already involved in cricket administration.
Seems a sensible, steady bloke. Just what’s needed at the moment, rather than a flash personality.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on April 19, 2022, 04:08:10 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on April 19, 2022, 06:06:40 PM
Post by: paul_e on April 19, 2022, 06:07:26 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on April 19, 2022, 06:20:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on April 19, 2022, 06:58:11 PM
I’m not sure why people think that appointing Rob Key is so strange.
As well as his commentating work, he was already involved in cricket administration.
Seems a sensible, steady bloke. Just what’s needed at the moment, rather than a flash personality.
After yet another post-Ashes review/post mortem we need an imaginative appointment as MD of the England cricket team; someone who will be involved in the appointment of the next coach and the next captain. The chance to lay down a marker to show what is expected in red ball cricket. But no they’ve gone safe and the chance of a shake up is lost, so here’s to the next post-Ashes review/post mortem which will be around 2025.
They have missed an opportunity to shake things up and kick start English red ball cricket but no just another safe pair of hands will be topping up his pension.
Post by: paul_e on April 20, 2022, 12:24:09 AM
I’m not sure why people think that appointing Rob Key is so strange.
As well as his commentating work, he was already involved in cricket administration.
Seems a sensible, steady bloke. Just what’s needed at the moment, rather than a flash personality.
After yet another post-Ashes review/post mortem we need an imaginative appointment as MD of the England cricket team; someone who will be involved in the appointment of the next coach and the next captain. The chance to lay down a marker to show what is expected in red ball cricket. But no they’ve gone safe and the chance of a shake up is lost, so here’s to the next post-Ashes review/post mortem which will be around 2025.
They have missed an opportunity to shake things up and kick start English red ball cricket but no just another safe pair of hands will be topping up his pension.
but who would be that shake up and what does that sort of shake up even involve?
In my opinion there's no quick fix to this and the fans need to accept that and give it time. We have a massive problem with both batting and bowling where the county game is leaning ever more closely with the shorter formats because that's where they make their money. Young players with talent are pushed into those formats, pushed to have more variations with their bowling, pushed to be more explosive with their batting and that's reflected in our performances, at ODI and T20 level we're excellent, currently 2nd in both formats in the rankings and we'll go into the t20 world cup as one of the favourites.
Where things get difficult is that no one will want to break that side so what needs to happen is a better process of identifying players, as teenagers, that will be better served being developed for test cricket and that needs to be led by the ECB with a much more hands-on approach than they've had recently. We then need to get those players focusing on playing long format cricket worldwide and stop them being drawn too deeply into the county game where conditions are so favourable to a very specific type of bowler that means we end up with loads of medium/medium-fast swing bowlers and lots of 'block up an end' spinners.
Based on all of that I want an MD, Coahc and Captain that are students of the game that can create a system where we get that early identification right.
On the current side I want a focus on basics because they've let us down badly in the last 2 years, too many dropped catches, too many gift wickets and too much panic with the ball if we don't get easy wickets ourselves.
We know that most of our batsmen can deliver once they're in and settled, most of them have scored big hundreds at times, what they struggle with is the first 50 deliveries they face, so lets get them focused on having a better attitude to batting and working on constructing an innings. We know most of the bowling unit can take wickets when the conditions favour them but too many of them struggle once the pitch isn't doing the work so the focus needs to be on how to handle that better. In the field we just need to cut out the mistakes, it's really that simple.
None of this requires a maverick MD to come in and shake things up, it requires good coaching with a clear idea of how to get the best out of players that probably haven't been coached well for test cricket for most of their careers.
Key mgiht not be the man for it but I can understand why he's been given the chance and I don't think it's fair to say he's definitely wrong and that he'll be out in his arse in 3-4 years.
Post by: Rory on April 20, 2022, 02:12:27 AM
I have a feeling that Buttler would make the best captain of the current crew, but he seems to have screwed the pooch with his recent batting performances. Having said that his Test average is 32.
Agreed, more than good enough for a number 5 or 6. We're not talking a top 6 of ten years ago (Strauss, Cook, Trott, KP, Bell, Prior), as long as we retain Root and Stokes, we're losing nothing by putting Buttler in the middle order. It wouldn't be a case of dropping a bloke with an average of 40, or even 30. More likely, we'd be dropping a specialist bat with an average of 25 for a captain with an average of 32.
Post by: Risso on April 20, 2022, 08:40:00 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on April 20, 2022, 09:11:25 AM
New Zealand have grit, regardless of format, and don't seem to get to retirement age. Ever. I suspect some kind of Dorian Gray thing going on.
Australia are simply feral.
Post by: Villan For Life on April 28, 2022, 11:19:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on April 28, 2022, 12:14:07 PM
Post by: Beard82 on April 28, 2022, 12:36:41 PM
Yeah it’ll be interesting, because I fear exactly that and he’ll try and take too much responsibility on himself. But in fairness he’s the best option.Yeah this is my thoughts exactly - best option, but not without potential challanges
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 08, 2022, 10:02:40 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 09, 2022, 01:29:31 AM
This implies that they are happy with the openers!
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 11, 2022, 05:01:29 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 11, 2022, 05:30:58 PM
Post by: Steve67 on May 11, 2022, 10:55:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 12, 2022, 08:26:57 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on May 13, 2022, 01:08:04 AM
Should be an interesting first squad.
Post by: UK Redsox on May 16, 2022, 06:04:51 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61468818
Saqib Mahmood: Lancashire and England paceman to miss rest of season with back injury
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 16, 2022, 11:46:12 PM
Sorry to hear this news; he was one of the few bright sparks from the Windies tour.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 18, 2022, 10:28:57 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61445437
Neŵ white ball coach appointed. No I’ve never heard of him either
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61445433
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 18, 2022, 12:19:59 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on May 18, 2022, 12:55:39 PM
Interesting that it looks like they’ll be putting Pope at 3.
Interesting move. They've tried putting an opener there and cajoling Root into playing there, so in the absence of a stand-out Number 3, it's time for another plan
The return of Jimmy & Broad was a certainty. However, the fast bowling ranks are looking a bit threadbare at the moment.
Hopefully Potts will get a game
Post by: dcdavecollett on May 19, 2022, 01:00:24 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on May 19, 2022, 12:18:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 19, 2022, 12:41:44 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 11:13:32 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 11:14:52 AM
They’re able to leave out Wagner and Henry
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 02, 2022, 11:24:36 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 11:25:58 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 02, 2022, 11:28:54 AM
Post by: Monty on June 02, 2022, 11:30:11 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 11:31:22 AM
Diving like that to save runs on the boundary isn’t worth the risk
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 02, 2022, 11:32:22 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 11:33:54 AM
Can you make an injury sub if needed?
Only for concussion, I think
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 11:41:07 AM
Jonny’s taken his third
Post by: Monty on June 02, 2022, 11:41:38 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 11:42:54 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 02, 2022, 11:56:20 AM
One way of dealing with a lack of fast bowling depth is for Jimmy and Broad to bowl them out.
If this new lad keeps up at this rate we might be alright
Post by: Risso on June 02, 2022, 12:09:28 PM
Hang on a second...
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 12:31:17 PM
Therefore, England can bring in a spinner
Post by: olaftab on June 02, 2022, 12:32:45 PM
TMS saying that Leach has concussion symptoms and has been withdrawn.haha... harsh but true.
Therefore, England can bring in a spinner
Post by: Villa Lew on June 02, 2022, 12:37:13 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 02, 2022, 12:53:53 PM
Post by: Monty on June 02, 2022, 12:54:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2022, 12:57:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2022, 02:17:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2022, 03:00:31 PM
Post by: JB1811 on June 02, 2022, 03:26:51 PM
Post by: Holte132 on June 02, 2022, 03:34:08 PM
Amazing day and a strange way for Parkinson to make his debut.
Apparently he is the third player to make his debut in this way
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2022, 06:01:48 PM
Post by: luke:lamf on June 02, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 02, 2022, 06:12:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2022, 06:13:38 PM
Post by: Rory on June 02, 2022, 06:14:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2022, 06:17:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2022, 06:32:01 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 03, 2022, 12:18:18 AM
I’m only following by text, and have done with cricket for years abroad, but it feels like Test cricket is just very poor now. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I remember seeing 14+ wickets fall in a day in the 90s, even when England were truly abysmal, but (perhaps I’m just being grumpy) the notion of sticking around and just not getting out doesn’t seem in any mentality any more. Is it something else ?
Just think the scheduling means that teams don't have time to prepare any more and come into series (particularly away from home) very cold.
Post by: Steve67 on June 03, 2022, 11:08:10 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2022, 11:52:32 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 03, 2022, 11:55:35 AM
Brain dead cricket from Stuart Broad. Flashing away instead of trying to hang around to support Ben Foakes.
These days Broad is either absolutely shit scared or just doesn’t give a flying feck about helping his team with the bat.
It’s not as if he’s facing Ambrose and Walsh. Southee and Boult are skilful bowlers but they’re unlikely to cause physical damage.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2022, 06:35:35 PM
Post by: Beard82 on June 03, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
Agree - his job was to support Foakes and was cheap - especially from someone nearly my ageBrain dead cricket from Stuart Broad. Flashing away instead of trying to hang around to support Ben Foakes.
These days Broad is either absolutely shit scared or just doesn’t give a flying feck about helping his team with the bat.
It’s not as if he’s facing Ambrose and Walsh. Southee and Boult are skilful bowlers but they’re unlikely to cause physical damage.
Post by: Ad@m on June 03, 2022, 11:06:44 PM
I guess this is what happens when you spend years prioritising limited overs World Cups.
Post by: tony scott on June 04, 2022, 04:49:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2022, 07:46:52 AM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on June 04, 2022, 08:43:35 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2022, 08:48:13 AM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on June 04, 2022, 09:01:22 AM
Respectfully, bollocks. All England's successes were achieved with the county game more or less as it is. Sick of seeing the county game blamed whenever England are incompetent.
I should have added that this was something I read in the Sunday Times - possibly from Cook - but it did make sense to me. The other criticism of the county game was that the four-day game now book-ends the season where the weather is shitter and the pitches are greener. As a result batters rarely face decent spinners or express pace as the best/only way to take wickets is to allow seam/swing do the work.
Arguably central contracts were the biggest factor in our recent successes, not the county system, and since then 20/20 and the 100 have eroded the four day game even further.
Post by: Risso on June 04, 2022, 09:30:58 AM
Respectfully, bollocks. All England's successes were achieved with the county game more or less as it is. Sick of seeing the county game blamed whenever England are incompetent.
There's also the point that most other countries seem to play limited overs cricket without their test team turning into a laughing stock.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2022, 11:55:59 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2022, 11:57:31 AM
Post by: Richard E on June 04, 2022, 12:44:06 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 04, 2022, 01:02:29 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on June 04, 2022, 01:04:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2022, 02:24:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2022, 02:47:19 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 04, 2022, 03:07:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2022, 03:08:21 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 04, 2022, 05:50:28 PM
This was not the time to lean back and try to flick the ball over the keeper’s head ::)
Post by: Rory on June 04, 2022, 06:35:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 04, 2022, 07:19:18 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 04, 2022, 07:57:45 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61689669
Post by: olaftab on June 04, 2022, 08:32:33 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 04, 2022, 08:34:06 PM
If you were unimpressed by England's batting...That's Nappalling. (sorry!)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61689669
Post by: KevinGage on June 04, 2022, 09:18:30 PM
For any other Test team, needing 60 odd runs with 5 wickets in hand and all day to bat, this would be a walk in the park but for England, this England we fear the worst.
Indeed.
NZ still favourites for me.
Quality pace attack and if they get Root early, it will be 6 out all out.
Good fightback though.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2022, 11:08:43 PM
So likelihood is it’s down to the two in now to get us really really close. Still a big ask.
Post by: Rory on June 04, 2022, 11:30:54 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 05, 2022, 01:02:15 AM
If you were unimpressed by England's batting...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61689669
They thought Under-19 referred to the total no. of runs.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 05, 2022, 06:28:18 AM
I can see New Zealand getting better as the series goes on, but sadly I can't the same with us and we will still be massively reliant on Root and Stokes getting runs.
Post by: Villafirst on June 05, 2022, 07:33:32 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 05, 2022, 10:15:30 AM
Could still go either way, agree, I think it’s how long Root bats determines the result.
Post by: Villa Lew on June 05, 2022, 11:56:09 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 05, 2022, 12:10:43 PM
Post by: dave shelley on June 05, 2022, 12:16:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 05, 2022, 12:19:09 PM
Shout out to Foakes too, vital performance.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 05, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
Post by: KevinGage on June 05, 2022, 12:43:06 PM
Ideal start from the new regime, and a good fightback after a poor first innings.
I'd still look at trying to include either Billings or Tom Abell over the next few matches with one eye on the future. But difficult to make the argument for bringing in Billings after Foakes' contribution in this test.
Post by: Steve67 on June 05, 2022, 12:45:13 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 05, 2022, 01:01:24 PM
Post by: Richard E on June 05, 2022, 01:03:14 PM
Good effort by England this morning, which should ensure that they only lose by about 150-200 runs.
Brilliantly accurate prediction there, Rich. Nice one.
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 05, 2022, 01:04:43 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 05, 2022, 01:30:58 PM
But in your defence I have played cricket against people from Tipton and generally they are not very good. So think your's was a good effort.Good effort by England this morning, which should ensure that they only lose by about 150-200 runs.
Brilliantly accurate prediction there, Rich. Nice one.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 05, 2022, 03:49:58 PM
Phew, sniff, and gulp.
Post by: manic-road on June 05, 2022, 04:09:43 PM
What a bloody player Root is.
Shout out to Foakes too, vital performance.
Never looked in trouble this morning, fantastic from both.
Post by: Rory on June 05, 2022, 04:11:30 PM
Edit: In response to Woofles.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 05, 2022, 11:11:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2022, 12:20:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2022, 12:43:22 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2022, 12:49:22 PM
Tell you what NZ are off to a flier here.
'add two wickets' as they say
Post by: Villa Lew on June 10, 2022, 01:10:13 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 10, 2022, 01:27:54 PM
Run rate over 4 an over, can't remember the last time that happening on the first morning of a Test in England.
The one that stands out is the 2005 Ashes test at Edgbaston, England were 130 odd for 1 at lunch.
Post by: Nev on June 10, 2022, 02:57:22 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2022, 04:02:04 PM
We've lost Bumble, Gower and the incomparable Holding, now we have Darren fucking Gough.
Gough has been on TalkSport when they've had the radio rights. He's not too bad.
TMS has been good. Chef is great and I really like Jeremy Coney.
No Victor so far this season, which is a bit worrying.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2022, 07:21:44 PM
Post by: Risso on June 10, 2022, 07:24:51 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2022, 07:39:18 PM
Strange decision to bowl first.
Apparently Latham said he’d have bowled as well. Both teams seems to have overestimated the pitch in terms of movement
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2022, 07:41:33 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 10, 2022, 08:29:25 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 10, 2022, 08:52:00 PM
Spent a decent day at Trent Bridge today albeit England were disappointing. Not sure why Stokes decided to field as both weather and pitch favoured batting. Very impressed with Mitchell. He’s going to be a major player at Test level in the next few years. Broad is really wasted and should not be in the Test team as he offers nothing.Ha ! Sharon and I were there too. Not the best was it. Probably not a bowling day obviously but Latham said he would have done the same and if Root catches Blundell on 0 things could have gone differently. Clearly looks a decent pitch however, so the important thing is to come back strongly tomorrow and then make a proper fist of it when we get a go. A good test for this team to see whether they've developed any sort of backbone and can respond well with the bat to scoreboard pressure.
I should add that I'm not optimistic !
Post by: UK Redsox on June 10, 2022, 09:14:09 PM
He’s certainly making the most of a chance to play international cricket fairly late in his career
Post by: olaftab on June 11, 2022, 10:48:14 AM
Pity we missed each other but nevertheless it was a good day specially weatherwise. My next Test day is at Edgbaston on July 1st against India. A test match that should not be happening IMO. We initially bought tickets for the first day of South Africa match but ECB have moved that to Old Trafford and bent over backwards to accommodate India.Spent a decent day at Trent Bridge today albeit England were disappointing. Not sure why Stokes decided to field as both weather and pitch favoured batting. Very impressed with Mitchell. He’s going to be a major player at Test level in the next few years. Broad is really wasted and should not be in the Test team as he offers nothing.Ha ! Sharon and I were there too. Not the best was it. Probably not a bowling day obviously but Latham said he would have done the same and if Root catches Blundell on 0 things could have gone differently. Clearly looks a decent pitch however, so the important thing is to come back strongly tomorrow and then make a proper fist of it when we get a go. A good test for this team to see whether they've developed any sort of backbone and can respond well with the bat to scoreboard pressure.
I should add that I'm not optimistic !
Post by: simboy on June 11, 2022, 11:14:36 AM
I think its my favourite ground to watch test cricket at in England, that and Sofia gardens.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 11, 2022, 11:40:14 AM
Spot on.Pity we missed each other but nevertheless it was a good day specially weatherwise. My next Test day is at Edgbaston on July 1st against India. A test match that should not be happening IMO. We initially bought tickets for the first day of South Africa match but ECB have moved that to Old Trafford and bent over backwards to accommodate India.Spent a decent day at Trent Bridge today albeit England were disappointing. Not sure why Stokes decided to field as both weather and pitch favoured batting. Very impressed with Mitchell. He’s going to be a major player at Test level in the next few years. Broad is really wasted and should not be in the Test team as he offers nothing.Ha ! Sharon and I were there too. Not the best was it. Probably not a bowling day obviously but Latham said he would have done the same and if Root catches Blundell on 0 things could have gone differently. Clearly looks a decent pitch however, so the important thing is to come back strongly tomorrow and then make a proper fist of it when we get a go. A good test for this team to see whether they've developed any sort of backbone and can respond well with the bat to scoreboard pressure.
I should add that I'm not optimistic !
Going on the 2nd. Also 9th. And 16th. Plus Oval on the 12th. And Bristol on the 27th. Before Rennes on the 29th ! May need some help in the garden in July haha.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2022, 12:11:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2022, 12:19:07 PM
Post by: Nev on June 11, 2022, 12:19:16 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 11, 2022, 12:27:52 PM
Post by: Risso on June 11, 2022, 12:31:54 PM
Ragged stuff and a shocking drop from Potts.
Agreed, I'd have been embarrassed not to have caught that and I was shit at cricket.
Post by: Richard on June 11, 2022, 02:04:26 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 11, 2022, 02:09:40 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 11, 2022, 03:58:56 PM
Going on the 2nd. Also 9th. And 16th. Plus Oval on the 12th. And Bristol on the 27th. Before Rennes on the 29th ! May need some help in the garden in July haha.Brilliant. You have your summer sorted better than me. I had a ticket for 9 July but gave it up as the day clashes with the next Eid therefore family priority :'(.
Post by: Richard E on June 11, 2022, 04:00:00 PM
This will go down in history as one of the classic toss decisions.
Toss decision in both senses of the word.
Post by: olaftab on June 11, 2022, 04:07:12 PM
This will go down in history as one of the classic toss decisions.I think Stokes has discovered very quickly that being a Test captain is a bit more than keeping up the spirit, being supportive and full of beans. It takes an astute mind that can plan day's play, counter adversary in play and keep adapting strategy and tactics to suit the prevailing situation in the "battlefield". He was mostly inffective yesterday and by the looks of it today. I guess he needs this summer to learn but he is not a natural Test captain.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2022, 07:42:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 11, 2022, 10:57:46 PM
https://wisden.com/stories/international-cricket/the-race-to-10000-test-runs-who-will-follow-joe-root-to-the-landmark
Post by: olaftab on June 12, 2022, 08:36:48 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 12, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Interesting. I don't think Kohli will make it as he has "run out". Smith will get there in the most boring way possible just like all his centuries. Out of Azam, Pant and Labuschagne my money is on the South African.....sorry I mean Australian, to get there first.
Interesting stats, Smith will get there, he would be much closer if he hadn’t been banned for a paper based “misdemeanour”.
The test game is being marginalised by the shorter formats, it does make you question whether many more will get near that level of test runs.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2022, 02:42:08 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 12, 2022, 03:19:22 PM
Interesting. I don't think Kohli will make it as he has "run out". Smith will get there in the most boring way possible just like all his centuries. Out of Azam, Pant and Labuschagne my money is on the South African.....sorry I mean Australian, to get there first.
Interesting stats, Smith will get there, he would be much closer if he hadn’t been banned for a paper based “misdemeanour”.
The test game is being marginalised by the shorter formats, it does make you question whether many more will get near that level of test runs.
Kohli won't make it, I don't think he's interested in test cricket anymore.
Smith should get there if he stays fit for a few years.
Williamson has all the talent and attitude for it but I'm not convinced he'll be fit enough for it.
After that I don't see anyone else getting anywhere near in the next 5-6 years.
I'm more interested in what Root ends up with, how he's playing in the last 18months and at his age he could easily push towards the top 3-4 of the list.
Post by: Rory on June 12, 2022, 03:33:08 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 12, 2022, 04:12:49 PM
Post by: simboy on June 12, 2022, 04:20:52 PM
I recall there being talk about the "big 4" (Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root) a few years back and thinking Root was definitely the weakest. This was around the time he wasn't converting 50s into centuries. Been proved very wrong last couple of years.
Me too. Bear in mind he’s also been the captain of the worst England team since the 90’s he’s been phenomenal
Post by: UK Redsox on June 12, 2022, 04:43:45 PM
Swann has been pretty good as well. As long as he keeps the funny voices to a minimum, he should be ok.
Post by: paul_e on June 12, 2022, 05:05:48 PM
I recall there being talk about the "big 4" (Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root) a few years back and thinking Root was definitely the weakest. This was around the time he wasn't converting 50s into centuries. Been proved very wrong last couple of years.
I've always thought he was the best of the 4 in tests, with Kohli better in t20 and ODI. Root has, in my opinion, become a far better player since he was taken out of the t20i squad.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2022, 05:07:41 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 12, 2022, 05:11:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2022, 05:14:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 12, 2022, 05:14:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 12, 2022, 05:18:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 12, 2022, 05:21:01 PM
I'm not sure the commentators have really understood the point though, banging on about Stokes giving NZ the initiative.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on June 12, 2022, 05:28:28 PM
I think we'll still see them playing positive because I suspect when Stokes went in it was with the intent to get to 500 today. The difference now is that Foakes will work more in 1s and 2s, I think Root will carry on being aggressive.
I'm not sure the commentators have really understood the point though, banging on about Stokes giving NZ the initiative.
In which case I'm not sure I've understood the point either, Stokes having essentially just given away his wicket with a totally reckless shot, in pursuit of what strategic purpose?
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2022, 05:39:38 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 12, 2022, 06:03:53 PM
This morning I expected a typical England collapse but the shift is interesting to see. Hopefully it will continue.
Post by: paul_e on June 12, 2022, 06:52:31 PM
I think we'll still see them playing positive because I suspect when Stokes went in it was with the intent to get to 500 today. The difference now is that Foakes will work more in 1s and 2s, I think Root will carry on being aggressive.
I'm not sure the commentators have really understood the point though, banging on about Stokes giving NZ the initiative.
In which case I'm not sure I've understood the point either, Stokes having essentially just given away his wicket with a totally reckless shot, in pursuit of what strategic purpose?
If we'd just played safe, sensible cricket and got the end of the day with about 400 runs on the board we pretty much give away any chance of winning the game and it becomes a case of trying to survive. By pushing the run rate and getting near to parity by the end of the day we open up the slim chance of winning the game. It's something we'd never have done before but now we've got a captain who's willing to take risks to opent he game up and a coach that will encourage him to do it.
A bad shot is a bad shot but a quick 46 did more for us at the time than him getting 40-50 runs by the end of play.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 12, 2022, 09:34:53 PM
He should have stuck with the latter plan.
That is the expert opinion of UK Redsox……one game for Lydney CC 1st XI :)
Post by: paul_e on June 12, 2022, 10:38:36 PM
Not arguing that Stokes was right to push things along, but he’d already failed with a slog sweep earlier in the over and then shown that he could hit it out the ground straight.
He should have stuck with the latter plan.
That is the expert opinion of UK Redsox……one game for Lydney CC 1st XI :)
It was a poor shot, I just don't like seeing him criticised for trying to engineer a chance for us to win the game, we've spent years moaning about how defensive England are and literally the first time our new captain goes on the offence he's had people moaning about him not playing it safe.
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 12, 2022, 11:06:17 PM
Post by: KevinGage on June 12, 2022, 11:51:55 PM
It seemed like brainless cricket in the match situation.
If he feels he has the measure of Bracewell (bearing in mind he already had eight from the over at that stage), toy with him. He's talented enough to switch it up. Put the bat away for a delivery or two (unless it's a gimme) and make sure Latham keeps him on for the next few overs.
Block a few and make Bracewell feel like he's in the game. Then break his spirit by going down the ground once or twice per over- but be selective. The imperative there wasn't to smash a quick 40 in one day mode, throwing caution to the wind.
But he's the captain of the Test side and McCullum is the coach, so this is how it's going to be, I guess. For good or for ill.
Post by: paul_e on June 13, 2022, 12:08:43 PM
Regardless it means pretty much parity with 5 1/2 sessions to play, NZ will want at least 250 lead before they consider putting us in and they're going to know they need most of day 5 to bowl us so I expect them to look to kick on with the rate pretty quickly. On that basis I'd go all out attack in the first 15-20 overs to try for a few early wickets to really put them on the back foot.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 13, 2022, 12:22:56 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2022, 12:26:31 PM
650
Post by: paul_e on June 13, 2022, 01:01:59 PM
Post by: Joe S on June 13, 2022, 07:04:24 PM
All three results possible on the final day.
Post by: Rory on June 13, 2022, 07:26:34 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 13, 2022, 07:36:48 PM
Post by: Nev on June 13, 2022, 07:46:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2022, 08:23:26 PM
Post by: Colhint on June 13, 2022, 08:35:55 PM
224-7 at close.
All three results possible on the final day.
all 4
Post by: Lsvilla on June 13, 2022, 08:36:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2022, 08:38:28 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 13, 2022, 08:40:37 PM
Good luck.Cheers. The CEO on TMS this afternoon to announce the policy for tomorrow said they hope to be half full. I suspect she's massively underestimated demand.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 13, 2022, 08:48:12 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 13, 2022, 09:44:16 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 13, 2022, 09:58:11 PM
My predictions is NZ tail add 50 plus more, England lose early wickets then bat for the draw.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 13, 2022, 10:00:52 PM
Is it still a sell out if no one's paid to get in!Ha good point. I don't see Stokes playing for a draw. I think either 2-0 or 1-1.
My predictions is NZ tail add 50 plus more, England lose early wickets then bat for the draw.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2022, 10:04:00 PM
Got some after 2+ hours in the q. Virtually all gone will be a sell out for sure.
I tried after work but got fed up of the queue online.
I should have booked as soon as the Notts CEO came in TMS to make the announcement
Post by: olaftab on June 13, 2022, 10:04:10 PM
I love playing the Kiwis. They play the game hard but fair and every series is competitive and entertaining.Yes. My favourite foreign cricket team....and rugby of course.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 13, 2022, 10:09:28 PM
Now confirmed as capacity reached. I may know someone with spares if you're still interested. PM me.Got some after 2+ hours in the q. Virtually all gone will be a sell out for sure.
I tried after work but got fed up of the queue online.
I should have booked as soon as the Notts CEO came in TMS to make the announcement
Post by: UK Redsox on June 13, 2022, 10:26:12 PM
Post by: Rory on June 13, 2022, 11:09:55 PM
I love playing the Kiwis. They play the game hard but fair and every series is competitive and entertaining.Yes. My favourite foreign cricket team....and rugby of course.
I don't follow rugby very closely, but I'm not keen on the All Blacks. All that dancing palaver. Just get on with it.
I get that it's part of their culture, but why are the other side expected to stand there and watch? Let them crack on and allow the other blokes a few extra minutes playing soggy biscuit, drinking beer from each other's arse cracks, or whatever rugby boys do before games.
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2022, 10:52:52 AM
I get that it's part of their culture, but why are the other side expected to stand there and watch? Let them crack on and allow the other blokes a few extra minutes playing soggy biscuit, drinking beer from each other's arse cracks, or whatever rugby boys do before games.Love it ;D and I agree.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 11:37:38 AM
What I don't like is that the opposition if expected to respect them while the do it.
I'm not saying that the other team should be pointing and laughing. What I'd like is to see teams just ignore it all and carry on warming up.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 11:39:04 AM
Took longer that hoped, but England make the breakthrough.
Good to see that Boult hasn't come in ahead of Jamieson. Therefore, the record is still on
Post by: Chris Smith on June 14, 2022, 11:43:34 AM
I don't mind the NZ rugby team dancing around as if they're 15 Aussie goalkeepers.
What I don't like is that the opposition if expected to respect them while the do it.
I'm not saying that the other team should be pointing and laughing. However, I'd like to see teams just ignore it all and carry on warming up.
Surely it would just fire them up even more if teams did that. It’s already an uphill struggle playing the All Blacks so giving them additional motivation seems like a bad idea to me.
Post by: Risso on June 14, 2022, 11:53:18 AM
I don't mind the NZ rugby team dancing around as if they're 15 Aussie goalkeepers.
What I don't like is that the opposition if expected to respect them while the do it.
I'm not saying that the other team should be pointing and laughing. What I'd like is to see teams just ignore it all and carry on warming up.
If they want to do their dance, the other team should be free to respond or not as they see fit, including pointing and laughing if they feel like it. It's designed to fire up the All Blacks and give them an edge, so why should people solemnly respect that. Load of bollocks.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 11:54:55 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 14, 2022, 11:57:52 AM
I don't mind the NZ rugby team dancing around as if they're 15 Aussie goalkeepers.
What I don't like is that the opposition if expected to respect them while the do it.
I'm not saying that the other team should be pointing and laughing. What I'd like is to see teams just ignore it all and carry on warming up.
If they want to do their dance, the other team should be free to respond or not as they see fit, including pointing and laughing if they feel like it. It's designed to fire up the All Blacks and give them an edge, so why should people solemnly respect that. Load of bollocks.
I'd always thought of how we'd have reacted to someone doing that to us in the Sutton Sunday league, and can only think the response would probably have included humour and violence. They can very much get to fuck with it as far as I'm concerned.
Post by: Risso on June 14, 2022, 12:03:04 PM
Post by: Risso on June 14, 2022, 12:04:21 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2022, 12:17:25 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2022, 12:23:43 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on June 14, 2022, 12:26:09 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 14, 2022, 12:34:38 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 12:34:48 PM
You can’t really ask for from a Test Match than having all 3 results still possible on the final day.
4
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 14, 2022, 12:35:29 PM
My predictions is NZ tail add 50 plus more, England lose early wickets then bat for the draw.
Won't be calling myself Nostradamus just yet but ...
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 12:41:59 PM
Didn't think that he'd be the one attacking
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2022, 12:42:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2022, 01:22:31 PM
Setup for a great day though.
Post by: Risso on June 14, 2022, 01:56:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2022, 02:12:30 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 14, 2022, 02:12:37 PM
Post by: Pat Mustard on June 14, 2022, 04:25:18 PM
That's that fucked then.Or not!
Post by: LeeB on June 14, 2022, 04:26:33 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 04:28:10 PM
Post by: Pat Mustard on June 14, 2022, 04:29:52 PM
Bairstow is not fucking about here
In this ridiculously specific situation I can't think of many other players you would want.
Post by: Drummond on June 14, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 14, 2022, 04:30:43 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 14, 2022, 04:35:28 PM
Bairstow 4 deliveries and 4 runs away from the fastest Test century by an Englishman....
99 from 74, needs one run from his next delivery...
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 04:42:56 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 14, 2022, 04:43:20 PM
Bairstow 4 deliveries and 4 runs away from the fastest Test century by an Englishman....
99 from 74, needs one run from his next delivery...
Jessop's record survives :)
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 14, 2022, 04:44:08 PM
My predictions is NZ tail add 50 plus more, England lose early wickets then bat for the draw.
Won't be calling myself Nostradamus just yet but ...
As per bloody usual I don't know what I'm on about. Come on England!
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2022, 04:48:31 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on June 14, 2022, 04:48:46 PM
Bairstow 4 deliveries and 4 runs away from the fastest Test century by an Englishman....
99 from 74, needs one run from his next delivery...
Jessop's record survives :)
Gilbert can carry on resting in peace.
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2022, 04:52:04 PM
This has been a fascinating test match to watch.You don't say :)
Post by: LeeB on June 14, 2022, 04:57:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2022, 04:59:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2022, 05:00:14 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 14, 2022, 05:00:46 PM
Post by: Risso on June 14, 2022, 05:03:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2022, 05:08:42 PM
Bairstow gone.That's it a collapse will follow. All out for 289 if history is anything to go by.
Post by: Drummond on June 14, 2022, 05:26:56 PM
Post by: Monty on June 14, 2022, 05:27:42 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 14, 2022, 05:28:26 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 14, 2022, 05:37:52 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on June 14, 2022, 05:56:58 PM
Maybe the white ball game isn't having too negative an impact on players
Judging by what Bairstow just said it’s the opposite.
Post by: dave shelley on June 14, 2022, 06:14:49 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 14, 2022, 06:40:17 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2022, 06:43:01 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 14, 2022, 06:50:07 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 14, 2022, 06:57:37 PM
Well that was fun ! Makes up for some of the turgid stuff in the West Indies earlier this year.
Well worth the wait on the website last night!
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 14, 2022, 07:55:28 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 14, 2022, 08:23:08 PM
Great win for England and a good series win as well. Credit also to Trent Bridge for allowing fans in for free today and what a day they got!
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2022, 08:39:52 PM
Well that was fun ! Makes up for some of the turgid stuff in the West Indies earlier this year.Days like this make up for the other hundreds of days we spend watching dross.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 14, 2022, 10:34:54 PM
Yep !Well that was fun ! Makes up for some of the turgid stuff in the West Indies earlier this year.
Well worth the wait on the website last night!
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 15, 2022, 09:19:16 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 15, 2022, 11:04:40 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 15, 2022, 11:43:54 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 15, 2022, 03:21:34 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on June 15, 2022, 03:57:10 PM
There is far too much nonsense talked about different formats of cricket. Too much talk of specialist this and specialist that. Too much talk about colour of the ball and length of the uniform. This can't be done because it's Test match conditions and that can be done because it's limited overs. All of this leads to barriers being built, mental barriers in players minds. Great players with good techniques will not succeed in any format if their mental approach is not right. It's not the format of cricket that defeats them it's the format of their conditioning. Great Test cricketer of the past who never played a single limited over game will no doubt still excel in that format. Despite Bairstow's wonderful knock the record for England's fastest Test century is still held by one of those greats. If England needed 299 in 50 overs to win a match no one would have bet against them so it was totally right that the coach and players adapted the correct approach and got the job done. Remove all shackles and play the game in the most positive way you can whatever format it is. It's still about hitting a ball with the bat and uprooting 3 stumps at the other end. SIMPLE!
The brilliance of yesterday could not have happened without the accumulation of runs in the first innings with Pope and Root each batting for almost 6 hours. That’s not a skill you can develop in the short form of the game. The domestic game needs to give a higher priority to the County Championship to ensure that others can develop that level of application.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 17, 2022, 09:52:53 AM
Good job that I've booked this afternoon off work and can watch on TV
Post by: UK Redsox on June 17, 2022, 12:33:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2022, 12:38:32 PM
England could get well over 400 here
under 400 would be a poor score from position with this team.
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2022, 12:54:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2022, 01:21:58 PM
Post by: Nev on June 17, 2022, 01:23:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2022, 01:39:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2022, 01:49:44 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on June 17, 2022, 01:50:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 17, 2022, 01:58:55 PM
I reckon that Livingstone’s hitting has stopped Buttler from getting a double century
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2022, 02:02:48 PM
Livingstone 54 off 17 balls, missed the white ball fastest 50 by 1 ball.
I reckon that Livingstone’s hitting has stopped Buttler from getting a double century
Agreed, I love the fact that Livingstone was disappointed it took 17 balls.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 17, 2022, 02:08:01 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 17, 2022, 02:09:17 PM
It's a stretch to describe this as first class cricket really.
It’s not first class cricket, it’s List A
England finish with 498 to set the new ODI record
If one of those waist high full tosses had been no-balled, we could have seen 500
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2022, 02:12:24 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 17, 2022, 02:27:54 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on June 17, 2022, 02:31:50 PM
Got a wicket alert earlier and assumed it was the women's team. Why are the men playing an ODI in the middle of a test series?
From Wiki
“ The England cricket team are touring the Netherlands in June 2022 to play three One Day International (ODI) matches, which form part of the inaugural 2020–2023 ICC Cricket World Cup Super League. Originally, the tour was scheduled to take place in May 2021, but it was postponed due to the COVID-19 pandemic.”
Post by: cdbearsfan on June 17, 2022, 02:34:11 PM
Post by: Nev on June 17, 2022, 02:34:32 PM
It's a stretch to describe this as first class cricket really.
It’s not first class cricket, it’s List A
England finish with 498 to set the new ODI record
If one of those waist high full tosses had been no-balled, we could have seen 500
I shall, as a keen follower rather than anything else, bow to your superior knowledge but I do have one question: is it a record in A list or First Class cricket? Surely it can't be both?
Post by: charlatan on June 17, 2022, 02:45:45 PM
Highest first class total is 1107 but that was in 190.7 eight ball overs! List A is basically the one day equivalent of first class. One dayers are not first class.
Post by: Nev on June 17, 2022, 02:56:04 PM
Highest list A by two runs over Surrey v Gloucs in 2007 by the look of it. Some earlier list A games were up to 60 overs.
Highest first class total is 1107 but that was in 190.7 eight ball overs! List A is basically the one day equivalent of first class. One dayers are not first class.
You learn something new everyday, ta.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 17, 2022, 03:25:32 PM
Highest list A by two runs over Surrey v Gloucs in 2007 by the look of it. Some earlier list A games were up to 60 overs.
Highest first class total is 1107 but that was in 190.7 eight ball overs! List A is basically the one day equivalent of first class. One dayers are not first class.
The Gillette Cup, wasn't that the 60 over competition back in the days of yore when everything else was sponsored by fags, Benson & Hedges Cup 50 overs, John Player Special 40 over Sunday League?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 17, 2022, 05:54:08 PM
Edit- checked on Wiki, was 65 overs in first season (1963) only. Then changed to 60.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 17, 2022, 07:46:18 PM
No surprise that Buttler is the other
Post by: Colhint on June 17, 2022, 08:01:33 PM
i was wrong oops
Post by: UK Redsox on June 17, 2022, 08:17:39 PM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jonny-bairstow-how-tragedy-and-tenacity-produced-a-brilliant-but-complicated-star-bckzgwkrw
Interesting that Steve describes Bairstow as a rugby player playing cricket. Steve himself was one of the best fullbacks we’ve ever had at Lydney.
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2022, 09:29:09 PM
i think i heard on commentary Buttler and Livingstone put on a hundred in 26 balls
i was wrong oops
Nearly right, 350 to 450 came in 26 deliveries.
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 19, 2022, 05:04:21 PM
Not a bad effort against the equivalent of a Birmingham Parks League team.
They’re missing a few players. I assumed that Colin Ackermann was injured, but he’s playing in the Blast for Leicestershire
Not sure why Timm van der Gugten isn’t playing. Just those two would make a difference
I can see Scott Edwards getting a look at a higher level, either in England or Australia
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2022, 09:41:22 PM
Not a bad effort against the equivalent of a Birmingham Parks League team.
They’re missing a few players. I assumed that Colin Ackermann was injured, but he’s playing in the Blast for Leicestershire
Not sure why Timm van der Gugten isn’t playing. Just those two would make a difference
I can see Scott Edwards getting a look at a higher level, either in England or Australia
A lot of the younger players (there were 3 19 year olds in the team for the first match) will end up playing county cricket as well I suspect.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 20, 2022, 11:01:23 AM
I'm pretty sure that I saw where a couple of the Ireland team had to either retire from internationals in order to remain classified as a domestic player or opt to play internationally and be classified as overseas (even if they held a UK passport).
Post by: Andy Poole on June 21, 2022, 10:12:34 AM
The atmosphere was amazing, so many Dutch came out to watch and they are great fun. Had lots of problems on the Friday, too few bars and too many people but by Sunday they had arranged for 2 more bars and things were far better.
As a short tour I would certainly go again.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 22, 2022, 10:22:54 AM
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2022/6/22/e3625362-6db3-4a20-afa5-96904d5548b2.jpg)
Post by: UK Redsox on June 22, 2022, 11:45:42 AM
Jamie Overton plays
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2022, 12:36:48 PM
I was at the Hampshire vs Surrey Twenty20 game on Sunday and I was impressed with his bowling. Looked rapid and bowled smart as well.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 22, 2022, 11:52:55 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 23, 2022, 01:22:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2022, 02:32:54 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on June 23, 2022, 04:08:34 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 23, 2022, 04:10:55 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 23, 2022, 04:11:12 PM
How bizarre was Nicholls dismissal, can't remember ever seeing anything like that in a Test match. What would have happened if the ball had hit the umpire instead?
law 33.2.2.3 states that a catch will be fair if:
"A fielder catches the ball after it has touched the wicket, an umpire, another fielder, a runner or the other batter."
Post by: Dr Butler on June 23, 2022, 04:24:16 PM
How bizarre was Nicholls dismissal, can't remember ever seeing anything like that in a Test match. What would have happened if the ball had hit the umpire instead?
law 33.2.2.3 states that a catch will be fair if:
"A fielder catches the ball after it has touched the wicket, an umpire, another fielder, a runner or the other batter."
the non-striker middled it too....
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Villan For Life on June 23, 2022, 07:53:21 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on June 24, 2022, 12:36:54 AM
Didn't Stokes think it might be a good idea to review a more-or-less plumb LBW decision seeing as it involved NZ's best batsman for the series?!
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 12:55:14 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 24, 2022, 01:56:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 02:01:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 02:03:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 02:30:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 02:35:34 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 24, 2022, 02:41:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 03:04:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 03:07:22 PM
Post by: Martin Carruthers on June 24, 2022, 03:10:49 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 24, 2022, 03:32:43 PM
Post by: Risso on June 24, 2022, 03:46:04 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 24, 2022, 04:57:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 05:03:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 05:42:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 24, 2022, 06:02:07 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 24, 2022, 06:23:05 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 24, 2022, 06:41:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 25, 2022, 11:40:42 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 25, 2022, 11:41:13 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 25, 2022, 12:41:32 PM
Jonny keeping
Post by: Steve67 on June 25, 2022, 07:29:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2022, 10:49:40 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 26, 2022, 11:02:27 AM
Foakes out with COVID, Billings in. Weird way to avoid being a one cap wonder.
Handy time to test positive, when he was injured anyway :)
If Foakes is ruled out of the India test, I hope that Bairstow keeps and Brook comes in.
It’ll be tough on Brook if Billings or Buttler is brought in
Post by: UK Redsox on June 26, 2022, 12:43:51 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 26, 2022, 02:39:44 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on June 26, 2022, 04:49:47 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on June 26, 2022, 05:02:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 26, 2022, 06:58:16 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 26, 2022, 07:30:05 PM
Another good match here where 3 results are still in play going in to day 5.
Yep, both teams deserve a lot of credit for their approach in this series. It’s been very watchable and a great advert for the test format.
Post by: TopDeck113 on June 26, 2022, 08:28:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 26, 2022, 08:31:30 PM
England should wrap it up by lunchtime tomorrow. Hopefully a corner has been turned.
Unfortunately the weather forecast is dodgy, a result should still be possible but I expect it to be later than lunch. The rain/pitch and overhead conditions will have a part to play too.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2022, 08:31:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 26, 2022, 08:36:05 PM
I like New Zealand, have a great respect for them. But in all three games they’ve made some poor selection calls - slightly odd as generally that’s an area of strength.
They’ve looked mentally shot and devoid of ideas since the first test. The decision not to select a front line spinner in dry late spring/early summer English conditions is mystifying.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2022, 09:03:36 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 27, 2022, 01:18:49 AM
England should wrap it up by lunchtime tomorrow. Hopefully a corner has been turned.
Think the top order remains an issue and until it is sorted, the potential to be rolled for a low score. Sangakkara was suggesting on the TV that we open with Buttler in test matches!!
Post by: simboy on June 27, 2022, 05:33:48 AM
Buttler is a good quality player. His technique is better than, say Roy who they experimented with and if he gets in adds impetus, taking games away from teams in 30 or 40 overs. There would need to be a recognition that he may fail but what he adds when he gets going outweighs that. A little like Warner at the top for the Aussies.
I cannot see us reverting to a Sibley type opening the batting again for a while.
Might be worth a series of Buttler up top.
Despite Leach’s ten wickets, I think we still lack a real quality spin bowler. Bizarrely New Zealand arguably have the better spinner in Patel and didn’t play him.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 27, 2022, 10:28:35 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2022, 11:34:58 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2022, 11:37:43 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2022, 11:44:54 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 27, 2022, 01:33:59 PM
I think play is likely to start around 3 at Headingley. This will allow about 50 overs to be bowled. England will need 25 or fewer.
Started at 13:30
Rain delay probably makes this a better day's cricket, seeing as England will go for it, whatever time they have
Pope out already
Post by: UK Redsox on June 27, 2022, 01:56:18 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 27, 2022, 02:05:14 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 27, 2022, 02:05:53 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 27, 2022, 02:37:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2022, 03:08:06 PM
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2022, 05:21:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2022, 06:25:57 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 27, 2022, 07:48:51 PM
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2022, 07:56:48 PM
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
It's not just the pitches but time and weather as well. I agree that it is less a factor in recent years, but there have only been four over 400 in the entire history of test cricket.
Post by: paul_e on June 27, 2022, 09:00:19 PM
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
It's not just the pitches but time and weather as well. I agree that it is less a factor in recent years, but there have only been four over 400 in the entire history of test cricket.
True but how many times do teams need to score 400 and have the time left to give it a shot?
Post by: Steve67 on June 27, 2022, 10:51:23 PM
Post by: Dante Lavelli on June 27, 2022, 11:06:04 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 28, 2022, 08:21:41 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2022, 09:21:03 AM
Also, if England are one ahead in the series during the fifth test against Australia, no way should they be taking on a run chase or declaring in the cause of entertainment
Post by: Risso on June 28, 2022, 09:45:11 AM
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
It's not just the pitches but time and weather as well. I agree that it is less a factor in recent years, but there have only been four over 400 in the entire history of test cricket.
True but how many times do teams need to score 400 and have the time left to give it a shot?
Well that was my point. a high-ish run chase in the 4th innings isn't a myth because you've usually got one or all of the score, time and pitch against you.
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2022, 11:21:21 AM
New Zealand tour dates confirmed 16-20 Feb Mount Manganui 24-28 Feb Wellington (day / night tests seemingly).Brilliant. Hopefully see you out there :) And only one home game v Arsenal missed.
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2022, 11:27:53 AM
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.Maybe the poor punter who has paid around £300 (tickets plus other expenses) for couple days cricket in that match would want to be entertained?
Also, if England are one ahead in the series during the fifth test against Australia, no way should they be taking on a run chase or declaring in the cause of entertainment
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2022, 11:36:06 AM
However it's been a mental block for so long. Not many teams attempted anything close to 300. So just like that match in Kolkata when asking teams to follow on become extinct these 3 wins are going to change the approach to 4th inning's chase in Test cricket.What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
It's not just the pitches but time and weather as well. I agree that it is less a factor in recent years, but there have only been four over 400 in the entire history of test cricket.
True but how many times do teams need to score 400 and have the time left to give it a shot?
Well that was my point. a high-ish run chase in the 4th innings isn't a myth because you've usually got one or all of the score, time and pitch against you.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2022, 12:17:53 PM
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.Maybe the poor punter who has paid around £300 (tickets plus other expenses) for couple days cricket in that match would want to be entertained?
Also, if England are one ahead in the series during the fifth test against Australia, no way should they be taking on a run chase or declaring in the cause of entertainment
They might want to be, but they shouldn't be.
If England are one ahead in the Ashes and batting in the second innings of the final test, it's the second coming of Chris Tavare that's required
Post by: KevinGage on June 28, 2022, 01:16:54 PM
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.
Agree.
If he was just a biff merchant then fair enough, but he's got a soild defence. When he can be bothered to use it. Ben Stokes still in after 100 + deliveries is usually demoralising enough for any attack. And if he is still in at that stage, chances are he's at a run-a-ball . Or close to it. He can do that without going into 20/20 mode.
Bairstow's interview the other day was quite telling, they wanted to put Boult and Southee off their lengths and knew they wouldn't do it just by sitting in. That's fair enough - and the method he's employed obv worked and then some over his past two innings.
Will be interesting to see how this approach plays out in the subcontinent. It's usually about slow grind there more than anywhere else to build an innings. A swashbucking 30-40 runs in 20 minutes won't normally cut it.
Post by: paul_e on June 28, 2022, 02:11:31 PM
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.Maybe the poor punter who has paid around £300 (tickets plus other expenses) for couple days cricket in that match would want to be entertained?
Also, if England are one ahead in the series during the fifth test against Australia, no way should they be taking on a run chase or declaring in the cause of entertainment
They might want to be, but they shouldn't be.
If England are one ahead in the Ashes and batting in the second innings of the final test, it's the second coming of Chris Tavare that's required
The problem is if you make it clear that you only plan is to survive any decent captain will surround the bat with catchers and make you play at as many balls as possible, one of the reasons 4th innings chases are considered difficult is because the batting team all too often tries to secure the draw first rather than trying to scare the bowling team into watching the scoreboard. Scoreboard pressure is the most fundamental factor in cricket, seeing your lead get whittled away is demoralising, even if you have plenty of runs to play with.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2022, 02:21:26 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2022, 03:20:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2022, 08:35:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 29, 2022, 09:24:00 AM
Post by: PGW on June 29, 2022, 09:43:14 AM
Who’s off to Edgbaston for the India test? I’m going on day 4 and depending on how the game is positioned I will go on day 5 tooI'm actually sat here at home printing my tickets off for first 4 days plus the for the ODI on 9th.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 29, 2022, 10:18:03 AM
Post by: JD on June 30, 2022, 09:14:42 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on June 30, 2022, 09:37:19 AM
Who’s off to Edgbaston for the India test? I’m going on day 4 and depending on how the game is positioned I will go on day 5 too
Saturday for me. I'm under strict instructions to remain fairly sober due to attending a 40th party in the evening.
'Can't promise that I'm afraid...'
Post by: Colhint on June 30, 2022, 09:49:19 AM
England Women probably looking at a first innings deficit in the Test.
Watched a fair bit of this. Two Warwickshire players in the team. Last night one of them, Issy Wong, Probably the fastest bowler in womens cricket was steaming in. 5 overs, 2 for 6. What was amusing was the crowd giving it loud Jimmy style on her run up.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 30, 2022, 02:57:57 PM
I miss Sarah Taylor though. A marvellous wicket keeper, and strong batter she’s now wicket keeper coach to all age groups (including the men’s first team) in the Sussex CCC.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2022, 03:02:04 PM
Another pitch inspection at 3:15
Unless SA collapse, it's looking drawish
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2022, 03:25:37 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 30, 2022, 04:06:58 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on June 30, 2022, 04:28:13 PM
And I know this truly sexist, but I ❤️ Lauren Bell. Nifty pace bowler.
Hmm. I know this is more fickle than a Villa fan at Wycombe, but I now ❤️ Tumi Sekhukhune. She looks great and has amazing hair. And looks a decent batter.
Post by: Rory on July 01, 2022, 01:03:19 AM
England not coming to Christchurch when they travel here in Summer. Only two tests?? Seems pretty stupid.
I know it's all politics and money, but I'd like to see more tests against New Zealand and Pakistan. The Ashes is sacred, but I find our tests against the aforementioned two much more entertaining than India or South Africa, personally.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 01, 2022, 01:31:59 AM
Post by: Rory on July 01, 2022, 01:34:08 AM
Everyone should refuse to play India until they start playing Pakistan. I'm still going to the England v India test, mind 😄
Some values you have. You'll be taking a tour of Ibrox next!
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 01, 2022, 01:47:00 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2022, 10:42:19 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2022, 10:56:30 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2022, 11:01:42 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2022, 11:04:43 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 01, 2022, 11:11:59 AM
Missed the start. Why was first ball at 10:30 ?
Earlier start all test for Indian telly.
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2022, 11:22:30 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2022, 11:55:05 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2022, 12:01:15 PM
Crawley has to hold that, really poor drop.
Fair play to him, made up for it with the next chance. This is turning into a good morning for us.
Post by: Nev on July 01, 2022, 12:05:01 PM
Post by: Nev on July 01, 2022, 12:10:02 PM
And here's my annual reminder that it's the City End.
Post by: LeeB on July 01, 2022, 12:28:15 PM
"KP" on commentary. 'Sake.
I'm glad it's not just me he annoys the fuck out of.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 01, 2022, 12:38:04 PM
I think all tests in England should start at 10:30, the light is great by then and it gives a little more 'wiggle-room' to get extra overs in if there are delays.
Not for me, less of a lie-in and means you're closer to rush hour traffic if it finishes on time.
Post by: Nev on July 01, 2022, 02:31:19 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 01, 2022, 02:33:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2022, 05:16:32 PM
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?
Glad that Butch is getting more airtime on Tests
Post by: paul_e on July 01, 2022, 05:24:15 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 01, 2022, 05:47:50 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2022, 05:58:20 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2022, 06:10:11 PM
"KP" on commentary. 'Sake.
I'm glad it's not just me he annoys the fuck out of.
On T20 and 100 commentary, KP is right down there with Danny Morrison in terms of being unlistenable.
However, the much more restrained KP on Test commentary is ok
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2022, 06:20:00 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 01, 2022, 06:35:39 PM
There’s time for us to take a few more too.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2022, 08:49:25 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2022, 09:49:36 PM
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2022, 09:52:20 PM
It was great knock from Pant, but blimey this year’s batch of balls is rough.Despite England letting it slip away after that ever so nice Mr Kohli demolished his stumps I enjoyed Pants and Jadeja’s batting. A decent day even allowing for the deluge around lunch time.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2022, 10:02:07 PM
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
Apparently, on TMS, Ramps suggested naming it after an ex-player……Ian Bell
Post by: Villan For Life on July 01, 2022, 10:12:17 PM
Post by: Nev on July 01, 2022, 11:35:24 PM
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
It's as if Birmingham is at that end only, fuck off. The City is that end, Brum is all around.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 01, 2022, 11:53:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 02, 2022, 11:26:36 AM
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2022, 11:46:57 AM
When Broad is good he’s unplayable, When he’s bad he’s awful. 35 runs off an over when bowling at numbers 10 & 11 is shocking.
Just smashed the previous record by 7 runs as well.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2022, 11:48:23 AM
There have been over 700,000 overs in Test cricket and that was the most runs scored off any of them…….by 7
Just the runs off Bumrah’s bat alone broke the previous record
Wow……
Post by: Villafirst on July 02, 2022, 01:23:31 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 02, 2022, 01:23:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2022, 01:31:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 02, 2022, 02:21:58 PM
The problem with Crawley is he’s just not showing that he’s going to come out the other side of this.
It's the same dismissal time after time and he's just not learning.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2022, 07:02:30 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2022, 07:03:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2022, 08:47:26 PM
How many more chances will Crawley get?The more chances he drops the more chances he gets to make amends it seems.
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2022, 08:53:34 PM
OK UKR I have done that joke many times. On here as well as everywhere else.Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
Apparently, on TMS, Ramps suggested naming it after an ex-player……Ian Bell
Post by: Rory on July 02, 2022, 11:59:37 PM
When Broad is good he’s unplayable, When he’s bad he’s awful. 35 runs off an over when bowling at numbers 10 & 11 is shocking.
Just smashed the previous record by 7 runs as well.
With his experience as well. He's not a kid who got flustered. Incredibly poor bowling.
Post by: Villafirst on July 03, 2022, 12:11:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 03, 2022, 12:15:19 PM
Bairstow has been superb again. I think Jo's Buttler would thrive in this team now, not Billings. Oh, and Kohli has been an arse and had a spat with Bairstow earlier.....
Buttler said on Friday that he’s focusing on white ball cricket and is not considering playing test cricket for the foreseeable.
Post by: Villafirst on July 03, 2022, 12:26:48 PM
Bairstow has been superb again. I think Jo's Buttler would thrive in this team now, not Billings. Oh, and Kohli has been an arse and had a spat with Bairstow earlier.....
Buttler said on Friday that he’s focusing on white ball cricket and is not considering playing test cricket for the foreseeable.
That's a pity as I think he'd be dynamic with this new attacking approach.....
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2022, 12:40:38 PM
When Broad is good he’s unplayable, When he’s bad he’s awful. 35 runs off an over when bowling at numbers 10 & 11 is shocking.
Just smashed the previous record by 7 runs as well.
With his experience as well. He's not a kid who got flustered. Incredibly poor bowling.
Yep, really, really idiotic stuff. I'm all for this new attacking approach, but that doesn't mean making stupid decisions.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 03, 2022, 12:47:52 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2022, 02:33:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2022, 02:50:21 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 03, 2022, 06:44:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2022, 06:58:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2022, 07:53:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2022, 08:28:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 04, 2022, 10:35:54 AM
EDIT .....Alex Lees now seems to be adopting the new attacking style
Post by: UK Redsox on July 04, 2022, 11:38:16 AM
Per Zaltz, 6 players have 100 catches, 100 wickets and 1000 runs in Tests
Botham
Warne
Sobers
Hooper
Kallis
Anderson
Post by: LeeB on July 04, 2022, 12:15:57 PM
100th Test catch for Jimmy
Per Zaltz, 6 players have 100 catches, 100 wickets and 1000 runs in Tests
Botham
Warne
Sobers
Hooper
Kallis
Anderson
That's some company to be keeping.
Also, is Carl Hooper the most Australian sounding non-Australian name ever?
Post by: UK Redsox on July 04, 2022, 12:20:36 PM
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2022, 02:44:28 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 04, 2022, 03:34:44 PM
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2022, 03:35:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2022, 03:50:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2022, 04:03:31 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 04, 2022, 04:21:45 PM
Post by: Holte132 on July 04, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
Post by: Nev on July 04, 2022, 04:48:15 PM
Kevin Pietersen is doing my head in with his commentary!
Beyond awful.
Post by: spangley1812 on July 04, 2022, 06:05:34 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 04, 2022, 06:10:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 04, 2022, 06:14:38 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on July 04, 2022, 06:22:14 PM
Please please England do not lose a wicket tonight. I have my ticket for tomorrow.
Get there early my friend, gates open @ 9.00am
I volunteer there
Post by: Richard on July 04, 2022, 06:28:44 PM
That "Don't take me home" chant is the most annoying song in sport. Worse than "Swing Low"
Agreed, I end up muting when watching on TV.
Post by: olaftab on July 04, 2022, 06:32:59 PM
I will arrive about 10. Where about do you do your duty?Please please England do not lose a wicket tonight. I have my ticket for tomorrow.
Get there early my friend, gates open @ 9.00am
I volunteer there
Post by: olaftab on July 04, 2022, 06:33:59 PM
Yes however it sort of works overseas.That "Don't take me home" chant is the most annoying song in sport. Worse than "Swing Low"
Agreed, I end up muting when watching on TV.
Post by: spangley1812 on July 04, 2022, 06:48:41 PM
I will arrive about 10. Where about do you do your duty?Please please England do not lose a wicket tonight. I have my ticket for tomorrow.
Get there early my friend, gates open @ 9.00am
I volunteer there
Try for a bit earlier if you can - I am the large guy outside E6 helping people with accessibilty needs
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 04, 2022, 07:07:54 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 04, 2022, 07:20:15 PM
We bowled well, although India gifted us a few wickets and that 20 minute spell either side of the tea interval aside we batted very well.
I sat in the West Upper Stand for the first time, what a fantastic view from up there with a great atmosphere aided by the generosity of the Indian fans sat in front of me who shared their delicious food. The noise when we lost two quick wickets after tea was incredible.
All in all a great day. Pity I can’t go tomorrow but according to TMS the 20,000 available tickets were sold out within an hour.
Post by: Lsvilla on July 04, 2022, 07:44:23 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 04, 2022, 07:53:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2022, 08:07:02 PM
Shout out to Lees and Crawley too, very good today. Crawley looked much better, and he was unfortunate with the ball that got him, it was a bit of a Jaffa.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 04, 2022, 08:22:38 PM
Kevin Pietersen is doing my head in with his commentary!
Beyond awful.
Bring back Bumble
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 04, 2022, 08:28:00 PM
Felt a bit for Siraj, fielders did him no favours today. Thought India looked lethargic on the whole.
Root and Bairstow were magnificent. Crawley was just starting to look confident when he got out and Lees seemed to fall apart once Crawley went.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2022, 09:13:50 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 04, 2022, 09:16:18 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 05, 2022, 12:45:32 AM
Another bloody good Test match. Of course, I went on the wet Second Day! Still, I've got Broad's history-making over to look back on and say "I was there!"
Yep, the test matches so far this summer could not have come at a better time and have given the longer format of the game a real shot in the arm. Sounded like India were gone at the end and had it gone on for another hour or so, we would have been close to getting the total.
Post by: LeeB on July 05, 2022, 11:14:10 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on July 05, 2022, 11:26:44 AM
Joe Root is incredible.
He really is, he just appears in total control.
Post by: LeeB on July 05, 2022, 11:27:41 AM
Joe Root is incredible.
He really is, he just appears in total control.
Absolutely serene, must be soul destroying to bowl to.
Post by: manic-road on July 05, 2022, 11:47:32 AM
Joe Root is incredible.
He really is, he just appears in total control.
Absolutely serene, must be soul destroying to bowl to.
He has played some audacious shots this morning.
Post by: manic-road on July 05, 2022, 11:54:57 AM
Post by: Monty on July 05, 2022, 11:58:13 AM
Post by: LeeB on July 05, 2022, 11:59:43 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 05, 2022, 12:02:43 PM
Maybe this new England isn't really good at anything at all apart from chasing totals. Well, as long as you're infinitely good at that, doesn't matter!
We were pretty aggressive with the ball yesterday as well and it was only a few dodgy overs and an exceptional performance by Pant that led them to a big first innings total so I think our bowling unit has been very good this summer.
Either way, great win and some phenomenal batting from Root and Bairstow.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 05, 2022, 12:04:52 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2022, 12:06:15 PM
Jadeja had Jonny becalmed for a while as he was a bit slow getting through the 90s, but that was the only jeopardy
Post by: LeeB on July 05, 2022, 12:06:53 PM
Post by: Nev on July 05, 2022, 12:17:44 PM
And best of all, for the game in this country, Test cricket is demonstrating it's value.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2022, 12:21:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 05, 2022, 12:35:25 PM
Well done England. Great result again. Odds on winning all tests this summer? How good are SA these days?
They have come out of a poor period of performances but have turned that around. They’re second in the test championship behind the Aussies so it should be a hard fought series. Just got to get the white ball stuff out of the way first!
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 05, 2022, 12:42:23 PM
Well done England. Great result again. Odds on winning all tests this summer? How good are SA these days?
They have come out of a poor period of performances but have turned that around. They’re second in the test championship behind the Aussies so it should be a hard fought series. Just got to get the white ball stuff out of the way first!
Thanks. It seems like a while since we've played them.
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2022, 01:31:51 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 05, 2022, 01:42:33 PM
Still a few things to sort, but we have been a brilliant watch so far this summer.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2022, 01:50:48 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 05, 2022, 01:56:34 PM
Anyway well done England.
Post by: olaftab on July 05, 2022, 01:58:56 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2022, 02:02:41 PM
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
As mentioned several times before, the Barmy Army really get on my nerves.
I don't mind the odd Root chant or a chorus of 'Oh Jimmy Jimmy' but most of the time they're singing about themselves or that trumpet is blaring.
It puts me off attending international matches in person
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 05, 2022, 02:45:37 PM
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
It's nowhere near as bad as the "India get battered" shite they were coming out with yesterday.
Still, I did like "Boris is a wanker".
Post by: Nev on July 05, 2022, 03:29:22 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 05, 2022, 03:41:21 PM
Great overall performance and almost perfect morning. Both batsman played superably and did their job however there was total lack of tension in the match due to India's attitude. They were not at all bothered to break a sweat and introduce some jeopardy in the play and rattle the batters. The visit to Edgbaston was, for me, totally spoiled by a team that almost forfeited the mornings play despite having 119 rund to defend. Maybe they did what their Board should have done in the first place last year and conceded the match.India were broken by the brilliance of Root and Bairstow yesterday. When Lees was run out they thought they were going to win - as they did for most of the game - demonstrated by Kohli's antics.
Anyway well done England.
Post by: Drummond on July 05, 2022, 04:45:35 PM
Great overall performance and almost perfect morning. Both batsman played superably and did their job however there was total lack of tension in the match due to India's attitude. They were not at all bothered to break a sweat and introduce some jeopardy in the play and rattle the batters. The visit to Edgbaston was, for me, totally spoiled by a team that almost forfeited the mornings play despite having 119 rund to defend. Maybe they did what their Board should have done in the first place last year and conceded the match.
Anyway well done England.
Requesting a change of ball, when it was reverse swinging a lot was bizarre too.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 05, 2022, 06:07:39 PM
I feel quite choked up when it comes to Root. It was lovely to watch his inner self (a cheeky boy who loves playing cricket) emerge again.
Great season so far, kudos to Stokes.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 05, 2022, 06:27:34 PM
Great overall performance and almost perfect morning. Both batsman played superably and did their job however there was total lack of tension in the match due to India's attitude. They were not at all bothered to break a sweat and introduce some jeopardy in the play and rattle the batters. The visit to Edgbaston was, for me, totally spoiled by a team that almost forfeited the mornings play despite having 119 rund to defend. Maybe they did what their Board should have done in the first place last year and conceded the match.
Anyway well done England.
Requesting a change of ball, when it was reverse swinging a lot was bizarre too.
Their opening bowlers Bumrah and Shami are brilliant but the first change bowlers Siraj and Thakur were poor. I don’t understand why they didn’t select Ravi Ashwin for this part of the tour, Jadeja is a good bowler but was bowling too fast and both Bairstow and Root just padded him away. I really rate Ashwin, he’s a proven match winner.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 05, 2022, 06:59:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 05, 2022, 09:11:56 PM
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
I’ve never really got that song when it is sung about players at football either. The whole “*insert team name* get battered everywhere they go” is another I would gladly never hear again.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2022, 10:16:53 PM
The balls have been shit
Post by: Rory on July 06, 2022, 02:52:02 AM
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
As mentioned several times before, the Barmy Army really get on my nerves.
I don't mind the odd Root chant or a chorus of 'Oh Jimmy Jimmy' but most of the time they're singing about themselves or that trumpet is blaring.
It puts me off attending international matches in person
Absolutely. I'd ban twats with trumpets right away.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 07, 2022, 08:44:35 PM
Selection looked a batter light, so if Mo, Brook and Curran don’t click, they’re in trouble.
Mo’s going to give it a go though
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2022, 12:36:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2022, 03:10:10 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2022, 03:37:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2022, 03:39:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2022, 03:45:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2022, 03:50:08 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2022, 04:25:48 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 09, 2022, 04:54:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2022, 05:52:59 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2022, 06:21:11 PM
aside from that I'm not sure what I think about the balance of this team, if you accept that, in t20, Ali Curran and Livingstone are genuine all-rounders we've picked 7 bowlers. I hope we don't end up short with the bat because you could easily replace one of Jordan, Willey or Parkinson without really losing much. I guess it depends how much you want to see from Livingstone but, for me, his sheer amount of variations makes him really effective in this format.
Going back to this we definitely seemed a batsman light, specifically someone to sit and stabilise the innings. On form I think I'd have liked to see Sam Hain in there to do that job.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2022, 07:40:51 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 09, 2022, 07:56:54 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2022, 12:42:19 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKO53771
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 11, 2022, 12:53:01 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 12, 2022, 01:12:53 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 12, 2022, 01:15:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2022, 01:17:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2022, 01:19:35 PM
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2022, 01:42:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2022, 01:53:38 PM
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2022, 02:11:08 PM
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2022, 02:16:48 PM
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2022, 02:26:14 PM
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2022, 02:51:14 PM
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2022, 02:57:23 PM
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2022, 03:05:44 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 12, 2022, 04:03:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2022, 04:56:31 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 12, 2022, 04:57:11 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 14, 2022, 09:12:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2022, 09:17:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 14, 2022, 09:39:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 14, 2022, 09:46:30 PM
I’m not sure it’s a big concern, still time before next major tournament and Buttler was in outstanding form recently, albeit in Twenty20.
With Buttler it's because it coincides with him getting the captaincy, I hope that's a coincidence. With Roy it's just another sign that he's a cold starter after a break, which needs managing.
Post by: manic-road on July 15, 2022, 07:41:17 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 16, 2022, 01:46:52 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on July 16, 2022, 06:37:41 PM
Long may it be so.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2022, 11:44:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2022, 01:03:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2022, 01:54:08 PM
This is better from Buttler, has been a really sensible captains innings so far.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2022, 02:00:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2022, 02:02:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2022, 04:26:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2022, 06:16:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 18, 2022, 12:30:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2022, 01:03:59 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 18, 2022, 01:21:08 PM
Interesting choice, but probably makes sense. He’s reached the pinnacle in that format and basically was the central figure in the World Cup final. Strange timing one game into a series.
The game is at Durham.
Any other venue and I expect he'd have just dropped out completely
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2022, 01:23:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 18, 2022, 01:24:20 PM
Stokes is retiring from 50 over international cricket after tomorrow’s game against the Saffers.Good man hopefully to concentrate on Test cricket. Tail is no longer wagging the dog.
Post by: Richard on July 18, 2022, 08:00:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2022, 09:24:07 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 18, 2022, 09:39:02 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2022, 03:17:33 PM
The latter has a touch of the Tuffers comedy about him
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2022, 03:22:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2022, 08:26:15 PM
Post by: Rory on July 20, 2022, 04:34:39 AM
Both Jimmy and Woody have been great on TMS.
The latter has a touch of the Tuffers comedy about him
I like Jimmy. He doesn't pretend to know about what he has no insight into; he speaks with authority about what he does know. He doesn't try to fill time, and has a dry wit rather than thinking he's Peter Kay. He has some good anecdotes, but only goes into them when pressed.
Unlike a lot of the modern breed of commentators, it feels like he's there to watch the cricket and offer what he can, rather than using the cricket as an opportunity to get on Strictly or I'm A Celebrity.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2022, 03:17:26 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 22, 2022, 05:53:30 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 22, 2022, 08:37:38 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 22, 2022, 09:20:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2022, 09:28:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 25, 2022, 09:14:56 PM
For a few years the low number of central contacts and lack of professional opportunities appeared to mean that once a player was in the squad they were unlikely to be dropped.
Now, players such as Wong, Capsey and Kemp are playing and well worth their places
I’m flicking between the Sky and BBC coverage. Anya Shrubsole is the latest recently retired player who looks like she has a bright future in the commentary box.
Post by: Steve67 on July 27, 2022, 08:31:49 PM
Post by: Nev on July 27, 2022, 08:39:39 PM
About as welcome as Keir Starmer at the Durham Miners Gala.
Post by: Steve67 on July 27, 2022, 10:58:56 PM
Well the Summer of cricket is rattling along wonderfully only to be all but stopped in it's tracks by the Hundred.
About as welcome as Keir Starmer at the Durham Miners Gala.
Bloody silly game.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 27, 2022, 11:03:07 PM
Well the Summer of cricket is rattling along wonderfully only to be all but stopped in it's tracks by the Hundred.
About as welcome as Keir Starmer at the Durham Miners Gala.
Like.
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 28, 2022, 01:34:36 AM
Post by: Gareth on July 28, 2022, 08:58:38 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2022, 09:04:24 AM
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
I think that the upcoming announcement of the FTP hot on the heels of the focus on player workload could force their hands. Something has got to give.
The IPL is expanding and is almost untouchable. Pretty much every test playing nation now has its own franchise white ball tournament, weirdly we have two!
Post by: Steve67 on July 28, 2022, 09:10:49 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2022, 10:07:57 PM
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Post by: UK Redsox on July 30, 2022, 10:10:01 PM
Good to see Capsey and Bouchier score runs. Kemp and Wong continue to impress with the ball.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 30, 2022, 10:23:31 PM
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Fucking BOOOOOOOO.
Post by: Rory on July 31, 2022, 04:47:50 AM
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Fucking BOOOOOOOO.
I know I'm not the only one here, but I don't understand who supports this. The one good thing to come of it is having a women's match before the men's. The rest is a complete waste of time, and nothing that couldn't have been achieved by rebranding the blast.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2022, 11:21:54 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on July 31, 2022, 11:45:53 AM
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Fucking BOOOOOOOO.
I know I'm not the only one here, but I don't understand who supports this. The one good thing to come of it is having a women's match before the men's. The rest is a complete waste of time, and nothing that couldn't have been achieved by rebranding the blast.
I don’t like it much but it was obvious from what I saw last year that was firmly aimed at families with young children and from that point of view it was probably a success. They upped the razzmatazz, games rattled along quickly and finished at child friendly times and they appear to have attracted their target audience. So it’s always going to be this time of year to coincide with school holidays but similarly is always going to annoy a lot of normal cricket fans.
Post by: cdbearsfan on July 31, 2022, 11:54:50 AM
They could easily have revamped the T20, kept those teams in and made the game more appealing to fans all over the country. Even more so if the BBC had shown the same interest and actually tried to promote the county game.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2022, 12:27:19 PM
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Fucking BOOOOOOOO.
Nice Fred MacAulay line
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 31, 2022, 12:33:14 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2022, 04:53:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2022, 05:42:45 PM
Post by: Richard on July 31, 2022, 06:22:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2022, 07:00:06 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 03, 2022, 06:52:56 PM
Probably only around a thousand people here
Post by: dcdavecollett on August 04, 2022, 01:44:55 AM
Still, they gave the Saffers a better game than England did.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 04, 2022, 11:51:33 AM
Lorcan Tucker played great
Post by: Villan For Life on August 14, 2022, 11:25:41 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 14, 2022, 02:33:21 PM
It will be good to see test cricket back this week, the first test against the Saffers starts at Lords on Wednesday
Yep…..and just look at the weather forecast for London :)
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on August 15, 2022, 06:01:58 PM
Post by: Rotterdam on August 17, 2022, 09:03:38 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 17, 2022, 10:23:25 AM
The Saffers played a 4 day game against England Lions about 10 days ago - they lost heavily. Hopefully we are not going into this test too short of match practice.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 17, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 17, 2022, 01:19:11 PM
I think we will be bowling before tea and Elgar aside they don’t really have a strong line up, so an interesting few hours ahead.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2022, 02:14:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 18, 2022, 03:25:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on August 18, 2022, 03:41:48 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 18, 2022, 05:37:30 PM
Not soon enough. He should have gone long ago but almost certainly not selected this season.
He is only in because so many England opening bowlers are injured.
Post by: Richard E on August 19, 2022, 12:43:14 PM
Post by: Risso on August 19, 2022, 12:51:47 PM
Not soon enough. He should have gone long ago but almost certainly not selected this season.
He is only in because so many England opening bowlers are injured.
He got the best bowling figures in SA's innings.
Collingwood yesterday quoted as saying "we don't expect consistency from Crawley". Well, he's not disappointing on that front then.
Post by: Richard E on August 19, 2022, 01:13:30 PM
Post by: Nev on August 19, 2022, 02:50:30 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 19, 2022, 03:36:18 PM
Also, I don’t think that England (in England) can justify picking the best keeper at the moment.
I’d have Billings or Salt keeping and bring Brook in to open. I know that the latter bats at five these days but he’s opened before and….well….he’s not Zac Crawley
Post by: UK Redsox on August 19, 2022, 03:40:11 PM
No weekend test cricket to enjoy by the looks of things...
Looks like they won’t even make tea on day three
Post by: Villa Lew on August 19, 2022, 04:05:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 19, 2022, 04:47:44 PM
Post by: Risso on August 19, 2022, 05:27:02 PM
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
It's been coming though really hasn't it? For all the fun of the recent run chases, sooner or later if they want to be a top test nation again they're going to have play consistently well in all areas of the game. You can't rely on swashbuckling centuries from Bairstow and Stokes to save you every match.
Post by: Gareth on August 19, 2022, 08:37:02 PM
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
It's been coming though really hasn't it? For all the fun of the recent run chases, sooner or later if they want to be a top test nation again they're going to have play consistently well in all areas of the game. You can't rely on swashbuckling centuries from Bairstow and Stokes to save you every match.
Exactly this….openers still look beyond ropey, Pope is doing ok but lots of room to improve, Root is the man,.Bairstow has had a rich vein but you know he’ll go back to walking wicket as quickly, Stokes is Stokes, Foakes will def be under the pump to get a Billings etc in the side to bolster batting & bowlers beyond the old guard looks pretty thin.
Far too many players are promising not necessarily achieving….can see Jimmy & Broad still being in there next summer at this rate
Post by: tomd2103 on August 20, 2022, 12:22:56 AM
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
It's been coming though really hasn't it? For all the fun of the recent run chases, sooner or later if they want to be a top test nation again they're going to have play consistently well in all areas of the game. You can't rely on swashbuckling centuries from Bairstow and Stokes to save you every match.
Agree. As good as the victories against New Zealand and India were earlier in the summer, we were heavily reliant on runs from Root and Bairstow who were both in golden patches of form.
Without those runs in this test, we have been skittled twice for well under two hundred, albeit against a quality attack.
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 20, 2022, 01:15:08 AM
West Indies: "hold my beer".
Post by: Risso on August 20, 2022, 11:56:22 AM
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
It's been coming though really hasn't it? For all the fun of the recent run chases, sooner or later if they want to be a top test nation again they're going to have play consistently well in all areas of the game. You can't rely on swashbuckling centuries from Bairstow and Stokes to save you every match.
Exactly this….openers still look beyond ropey, Pope is doing ok but lots of room to improve, Root is the man,.Bairstow has had a rich vein but you know he’ll go back to walking wicket as quickly, Stokes is Stokes, Foakes will def be under the pump to get a Billings etc in the side to bolster batting & bowlers beyond the old guard looks pretty thin.
Far too many players are promising not necessarily achieving….can see Jimmy & Broad still being in there next summer at this rate
Agreed. If we had decent, reliable openers, then the likes of Root, Bairstow and Stokes would be capable of batting the opposition out of the match. Also, Archer being injured for the last 18 months doesn't help I suppose.
Post by: pooligan on August 20, 2022, 01:21:25 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on August 24, 2022, 11:09:42 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 25, 2022, 11:45:20 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 25, 2022, 12:59:40 PM
Post by: manic-road on August 25, 2022, 04:41:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 25, 2022, 06:34:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 25, 2022, 07:45:44 PM
Bloody well done Crawley.
Yes and we really do need him to build on that start tomorrow.
Post by: Gareth on August 25, 2022, 09:04:06 PM
Bloody well done Crawley.
Indeed, wasn’t sure it was fair on him to not take him out of the firing line…hope he builds in the morning
Post by: paul_e on August 25, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 26, 2022, 02:12:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 26, 2022, 02:40:54 PM
Post by: Monty on August 26, 2022, 03:08:32 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 26, 2022, 03:14:31 PM
Foakes has turned into a pretty useful lower-order bat, hasn't he?
Number 7 isn't really lower-order
Post by: Monty on August 26, 2022, 03:38:42 PM
Foakes has turned into a pretty useful lower-order bat, hasn't he?
Number 7 isn't really lower-order
Lower-middle then if you like.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 26, 2022, 04:05:02 PM
Stokes has been fantastic, got the balance spot on.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 26, 2022, 09:06:02 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 26, 2022, 11:19:02 PM
Delighted for Foakes, also his perceived weakness was against real express pace. A century against that attack is massive.
Yep. A certain G. Boycott had a nice big slice of humble pie tonight after his comments earlier in the week.
Post by: Risso on August 27, 2022, 11:22:37 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 27, 2022, 11:39:19 AM
One more wicket for Anderson and he's the highest (pace) wicket taker ever. Tied with Glenn McGrath at the moment. I can see him getting over a thousand wickets.
He's already nearly a hundred clear of Glenn McGrath?
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/93276.html
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 27, 2022, 11:51:38 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 27, 2022, 11:53:09 AM
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283980.html
Post by: Villan For Life on August 27, 2022, 11:55:06 AM
Is it including ODIs?
No, those are all test wickets. He took 269 wickets in ODI’s
Post by: Villan For Life on August 27, 2022, 11:57:32 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 27, 2022, 11:57:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 27, 2022, 09:03:27 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 27, 2022, 11:09:59 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 27, 2022, 11:31:44 PM
Post by: Rory on August 28, 2022, 02:56:46 AM
Aaah maybe that's it, apologies Risso.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283980.html
DeFreitas, Gayle, Bravo, Streak. Some shite on that list!
First class wickets is probably more likely considering Afghanistan don't play that many games, but reckon Rashid Khan could well end up top of many wicket-takers lists by the time he retires. Already on 304 there and he's only 23.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 02, 2022, 10:07:32 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 02, 2022, 10:46:14 AM
So Roy’s form has cost him his World Cup spot.
It’s the right decision.
Woakes and Wood are a worrying pick, both have been out injured for a long time, I don’t think either of them have played since the test series in the Caribbean in March. They will be very short of match action and with them both having poor injury records I really don’t see them as reliable selections.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 02, 2022, 05:08:33 PM
Injured playing golf. Possible broken leg
I'd like to see Harry Brook play in the Test and Phil Salt open in the World Cup
Post by: Risso on September 02, 2022, 05:26:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 02, 2022, 07:25:19 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 02, 2022, 08:22:12 PM
How on earth do you break your leg playing golf?!
Got it trapped in the windmill.
Post by: Rory on September 03, 2022, 01:32:59 AM
How on earth do you break your leg playing golf?!
Not sure, but it's the kind of thing only Bairstow could manage. Reckon Jofra could do himself elbow damage on the driving range, and Wood could knacker his achilles in the clubhouse, but only Bairstow is daft enough to smash the fuck out of his own leg with a 3-wood.
Post by: dcdavecollett on September 05, 2022, 02:45:19 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 06, 2022, 04:11:52 PM
International retirement on the cards, I suspect
No recall for Tammy Beaumont
With Heather Knight still out injured, the squad continues to take on a younger look.
England squad: Nat Sciver (Northern Diamonds, capt), Lauren Bell (Southern Vipers), Maia Bouchier (Southern Vipers), Alice Capsey (South East Stars), Kate Cross (Thunder), Freya Davies (South East Stars), Sophia Dunkley (South East Stars), Sophie Ecclestone (Thunder), Sarah Glenn (Central Sparks), Amy Jones (Central Sparks), Freya Kemp (Southern Vipers), Bryony Smith (South East Stars), Issy Wong (Central Sparks), Danni Wyatt (Southern Vipers).
I'll be at the 3rd T20 in Brizzle
Post by: Villan For Life on September 07, 2022, 10:02:47 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2022, 11:18:33 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 07, 2022, 11:24:15 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 07, 2022, 11:25:24 AM
And Harry Brook replaces Bairstow in the test side for the 3rd test which starts tomorrow.
Glad that he's getting a chance after being around the squad most of the summer
Post by: Villan For Life on September 07, 2022, 12:00:35 PM
And Harry Brook replaces Bairstow in the test side for the 3rd test which starts tomorrow.
Glad that he's getting a chance after being around the squad most of the summer
Yes, I like the continuity in selection.
Post by: dcdavecollett on September 08, 2022, 01:03:53 AM
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2022, 01:44:08 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 08, 2022, 02:01:47 PM
How on earth do you break your leg playing golf?!Knowing him he probably fell off a tree whilst shagging the club captain’s wife.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 08, 2022, 02:03:52 PM
Strange decision to delay the start in the sunshine when there was a huge storm on the radar due to hit right around the new start time. With the forecast as is I suspect we won't see much play today now.
Heavy overnight rain in London meant a wet outfield at the scheduled start time.
Post by: paul_e on September 08, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
Strange decision to delay the start in the sunshine when there was a huge storm on the radar due to hit right around the new start time. With the forecast as is I suspect we won't see much play today now.
Heavy overnight rain in London meant a wet outfield at the scheduled start time.
I know, I was commenting more on the choice of new start time.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 08, 2022, 02:30:09 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on September 09, 2022, 03:42:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 10, 2022, 12:00:59 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on September 10, 2022, 12:15:12 PM
Blimey England making up for lost time here.
Losing 2 days play unlikely to be an issue at this rate.
Post by: Villa Lew on September 11, 2022, 11:17:36 AM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 11, 2022, 11:31:56 AM
On the positive side, it’s jolly decent of our chaps to give opposing sides a two wicket advantage each innings.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 11, 2022, 12:05:24 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 11, 2022, 05:30:22 PM
It’s all happening, in 9 balls there’s been a dropped catch and two reviews. Chasing 130 they’re trying to get them tonight.
Post by: olaftab on September 11, 2022, 05:39:05 PM
Post by: Richard E on September 11, 2022, 06:46:04 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 11, 2022, 06:57:16 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 11, 2022, 08:24:46 PM
Hopefully one day soon electricity will be invented and then test matches won’t have to stop for bad light.And this is the bit I don't get when people say the Queen did a lot for us!
Post by: olaftab on September 11, 2022, 08:30:43 PM
The umpires were applying the rules as they stand, let’s have a more common sense approach introduced. If both captains agree, regardless of the light then the game should continue to try and force a result. How much will it cost to open the ground tomorrow, pay the stewards etc when just 33 runs are needed?Stewards will still have to paid regardless and ground will make more money from say 10K turning for an hour and drinking for two hours. However it should be like Nasser and Thorpe in Karachi back in 2000, leave it to the batters to accept conditions.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2022, 01:44:19 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 12, 2022, 01:46:46 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 12, 2022, 04:30:48 PM
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
Both sides have great bowling attacks, if anything the South African bowlers are better than ours. However both sides have brittle batting line ups hence the short tests.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 12, 2022, 05:45:27 PM
And why were runners banned?
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 12, 2022, 05:48:23 PM
Good on them.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 12, 2022, 07:38:46 PM
I fail to see why the bad light judgement lies solely with the umpires. What was wrong with offering it to the batters?
And why were runners banned?
They changed the rules on bad light a few seasons ago. Now the decision to go off or not rests solely with the umpires with no player consultation.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 12, 2022, 07:41:43 PM
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
Both sides have great bowling attacks, if anything the South African bowlers are better than ours. However both sides have brittle batting line ups hence the short tests.
South Africa’s batting is far weaker than ours. We have a fair bit of talent, but are inconsistent. South Africa are genuinely shy of talent. It’s crazy compared to what they used to have.
I said this before, but Robinson is a serious bowler. Now that he appears to have sorted his fitness he is going to be a massive player for us.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 12, 2022, 08:50:24 PM
I fail to see why the bad light judgement lies solely with the umpires. What was wrong with offering it to the batters?
And why were runners banned?
They changed the rules on bad light a few seasons ago. Now the decision to go off or not rests solely with the umpires with no player consultation.
I know that, I was wondering why Thant was the case.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 12, 2022, 09:07:28 PM
Post by: dave shelley on September 12, 2022, 09:09:57 PM
I fail to see why the bad light judgement lies solely with the umpires. What was wrong with offering it to the batters?
And why were runners banned?
They changed the rules on bad light a few seasons ago. Now the decision to go off or not rests solely with the umpires with no player consultation.
I know that, I was wondering why Thant was the case.
I didn't realise it warranted this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_Thant) level of diplomacy.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on September 12, 2022, 09:35:32 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 12, 2022, 11:55:20 PM
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
Both sides have great bowling attacks, if anything the South African bowlers are better than ours. However both sides have brittle batting line ups hence the short tests.
Thought I heard somewhere today that this is the first English test summer where an opener hasn't scored a century since 1888.
Didn't quite catch it fully, but guess opposition are included in that and not just England.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 12, 2022, 11:58:26 PM
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
Somewhere in ECB HQ, however, discussions are under way about reducing County Championship matches to three days to try and solve the fixture congestion problem.
Post by: UK Redsox on September 16, 2022, 09:56:42 AM
Hopefully the first of many women's internationals.
NB - I don't think Ecclestone's brilliant catch should have stood. Sure that the ball touched the ground as she rolled over.
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 21, 2022, 11:36:28 AM
https://edgbaston.com/ballot-2023/
Post by: Nev on September 21, 2022, 12:24:10 PM
Wankers.
Post by: Gareth on September 21, 2022, 05:14:07 PM
Ashes all done and dusted by the end of July. Everyone loves an "Ashes half a summer".
Wankers.
Imagine they need the test players to play their flagship BS tournament in the summer….
Post by: Villan For Life on September 21, 2022, 05:58:29 PM
Ashes all done and dusted by the end of July. Everyone loves an "Ashes half a summer".
Wankers.
Imagine they need the test players to play their flagship BS tournament in the summer….
They do unfortunately. The only home international cricket next August is a T20 against the Kiwis on the 30th August. Madness.
Post by: Villa Lew on September 21, 2022, 06:49:21 PM
Ashes all done and dusted by the end of July. Everyone loves an "Ashes half a summer".
Wankers.
Imagine they need the test players to play their flagship BS tournament in the summer….
They do unfortunately. The only home international cricket next August is a T20 against the Kiwis on the 30th August. Madness.
It's a joke, everything revolves the Hundred.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 22, 2022, 07:08:28 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on September 25, 2022, 12:35:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 30, 2022, 08:24:21 PM
Post by: Nev on September 30, 2022, 08:41:12 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 01, 2022, 01:22:07 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 01, 2022, 07:19:56 AM
Post by: manic-road on October 09, 2022, 10:43:21 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 09, 2022, 01:22:57 PM
Wade is a cheating Aussie bast*!rd though, he deliberately obstructed Wood when he was going for a catch. Afterwards Buttler said he didn’t want to upset the Aussies this early in the trip! Man up Jos, that was a clear obstruction FFS!
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 09, 2022, 09:53:28 PM
Stokes is the problem in that team though - tremendous player obviously, but we need him to find his role in 20/20. I was massively impressed by Curran, his death bowling was superb. He’s just always had something about him.
Post by: Drummond on October 12, 2022, 03:45:28 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 13, 2022, 12:26:34 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 15, 2022, 12:57:19 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 15, 2022, 01:42:30 AM
Post by: Rory on October 15, 2022, 03:40:25 AM
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2022, 09:07:56 AM
As Friday's game was abandoned, does that mean that Chris Woakes's wickets will be expunged from the records?No. Play was legitimate within rules until abandoned.
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2022, 09:10:39 AM
Either way, Woakes is the most underrated cricketer of his generation.Agree with you totally. He has contributed enormously to England and the Bears over the years. I love him, ok that’s a bit strong, but a totally underrated player. A James Milner of cricket IMO.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 15, 2022, 12:09:45 PM
All in all though, it looks a strong side, with some real power hitting in the top order, quality spin options and a varied seam attack. Think that starting team could look something like:
Buttler, Hales, Malan, Stokes, Brook, Livingstone, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Wood, Topley
Suppose the one dilemma might be choosing between Brook and Livingstone, moving Ali up to six and bringing in another seam option like Sam Curran or Willey.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 16, 2022, 08:46:57 AM
Now the warm-ups are done, we look in good shape going into the World Cup. Was listening to a discussion on the radio the other day and someone made the point that the only real question about the side is the death bowling. They were saying that it has probably cost us winning the last two T20 World Cups, but someone countered that the conditions in those two defeats probably favoured batting second.
All in all though, it looks a strong side, with some real power hitting in the top order, quality spin options and a varied seam attack. Think that starting team could look something like:
Buttler, Hales, Malan, Stokes, Brook, Livingstone, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Wood, Topley
Suppose the one dilemma might be choosing between Brook and Livingstone, moving Ali up to six and bringing in another seam option like Sam Curran or Willey.
Curran must play, he’s easily our best death bowler.
Post by: Villa Lew on October 17, 2022, 09:38:41 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 17, 2022, 11:12:37 AM
Now the warm-ups are done, we look in good shape going into the World Cup. Was listening to a discussion on the radio the other day and someone made the point that the only real question about the side is the death bowling. They were saying that it has probably cost us winning the last two T20 World Cups, but someone countered that the conditions in those two defeats probably favoured batting second.
All in all though, it looks a strong side, with some real power hitting in the top order, quality spin options and a varied seam attack. Think that starting team could look something like:
Buttler, Hales, Malan, Stokes, Brook, Livingstone, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Wood, Topley
Suppose the one dilemma might be choosing between Brook and Livingstone, moving Ali up to six and bringing in another seam option like Sam Curran or Willey.
Curran must play, he’s easily our best death bowler.
I disagree, Jordan is, at least, as good as him. I think the debate is actually Brook or Curran. Livingstone offers too much to not be included, great 'finisher' with the bat and with the ball he offers pasable leg and wrist spin. In the hundred last year he also bowled a fair bit of 65-70mph stuff which was closer to seam bowling than spin. Even if you only use him for a couplew of overs to fill in you get the benefit of him bowling whatever works best in the conditions. Alongside Stokes, Woakes and Ali we have 4 players who can genuinely win us a game with bat and ball and that's a strength we should lean into heavily. Whether you go with the extra bowling of Curran or the extra batting of Brook really depends on the match.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 17, 2022, 12:55:49 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 17, 2022, 01:05:06 PM
Curran has made a strong case with both bat and ball in the warm up game today to be in the starting 11
Indeed he has, but Brook and Livingstone both did as well. It's a really nice problem to have but, whatever happens, 2-3 very good players are going to miss out. I strongly suspect our selection will end up with a core of 7-8 and then the other spots rotating to suit the opposition, I don't see any other solution here.
Livingstone would probably be my man of the match for today, got the key wicket of the one Pakistani batsmen that looked genuinely dangerous, kept it tight for the rest of his deliveries (1/8 from 2 is fantastic bowling in t20) and then stabilised our batting alongside Brook when it looked like we might be having a wobble, setting the stage for Brook and Curran to carry it home.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 17, 2022, 09:47:01 PM
Curran has made a strong case with both bat and ball in the warm up game today to be in the starting 11
He’s made it in the Australia series too. He’s some cricketer, he just as a remarkable ability to impact games.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 17, 2022, 09:59:01 PM
Curran has made a strong case with both bat and ball in the warm up game today to be in the starting 11
He’s made it in the Australia series too. He’s some cricketer, he just as a remarkable ability to impact games.
I think Jordan’s career at the elite level is on the wane and Curran will replace him, Curran is also a better batsman too. I’ve always liked Chris Jordan but Sam Curran has that certain X factor that you need in T20 cricket. He makes things happen.
Post by: Villa Lew on October 19, 2022, 01:30:58 PM
Post by: Grande Pablo on October 19, 2022, 04:36:34 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 21, 2022, 01:46:04 AM
Feel sorry for Topley.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 21, 2022, 08:07:48 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 21, 2022, 08:10:02 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 21, 2022, 08:18:37 AM
It’d be good to see Scotland get through too.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 21, 2022, 10:36:12 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 21, 2022, 11:04:24 AM
Sounds of giggles in the background and then from Alex. Credit to Dan Norcross, I thought we were about to head into 'leg-over' territory
Post by: UK Redsox on October 21, 2022, 12:12:08 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 21, 2022, 12:14:13 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 22, 2022, 11:47:47 AM
In other news the Crims got spanked by the Kiwis.
Post by: Villa Lew on October 22, 2022, 11:56:27 AM
England won the toss and will bowl.
In other news the Crims got spanked by the Kiwis.
Blimey just seen the result 89 runs, it's the Aussies 2nd heaviest defeat in the 20 over format.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 23, 2022, 12:26:55 AM
Post by: Rory on October 23, 2022, 01:38:41 AM
Post by: Richard on October 23, 2022, 12:56:57 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 23, 2022, 12:59:22 PM
India v Pakistan what a finish!
That was a fantastic finish, I think the nerves really got to the Pakistan players. Whilst Kohli was at the crease India were always in it and he seemed to be a calming presence at the death.
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 24, 2022, 02:36:19 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 24, 2022, 02:52:51 PM
Struggling to see why South Africa weren't just awarded the win when they had already passed the number of runs they would have needed after the minimum five over requirement.
That could be costly when everyone else beats Zimbabwe as well.
Post by: Bully2345 on October 24, 2022, 02:55:34 PM
It looks strange but i guess it followed procedure
Post by: UK Redsox on October 24, 2022, 03:21:11 PM
That was ridiculous, especially from a top Umpire like Gough
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 25, 2022, 02:26:36 AM
Although unlikely, Zimbabwe could claim that they'd have taken a few wickets in the two unbowled overs. That would then push the DLS par score up at the 5 over mark.
It looks strange but i guess it followed procedure
That makes sense, thanks. Hadn't thought of that.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 26, 2022, 07:13:23 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 26, 2022, 07:16:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2022, 08:00:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2022, 08:12:51 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2022, 08:31:02 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 26, 2022, 08:41:49 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 26, 2022, 08:43:50 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2022, 08:50:02 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2022, 08:52:19 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 26, 2022, 08:54:15 AM
Post by: Rory on October 26, 2022, 08:55:48 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on October 26, 2022, 09:02:50 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 26, 2022, 09:07:10 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2022, 09:10:34 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on October 26, 2022, 09:14:15 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 26, 2022, 10:06:49 AM
Post by: Hillbilly on October 26, 2022, 11:16:18 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 26, 2022, 06:03:59 PM
Another Brexit bonus. It really is time to let Ireland have a go at running Britain.
Eh? What on earth has a T20 cricket match got to do with Brexit? Very odd comment.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 27, 2022, 02:53:18 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on October 27, 2022, 04:26:17 PM
Just turn on the tv in time to catch the final over.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 28, 2022, 07:59:41 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 28, 2022, 08:44:20 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 28, 2022, 10:50:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 28, 2022, 11:07:59 AM
Post by: Richard on October 28, 2022, 12:36:43 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 28, 2022, 12:47:32 PM
Post by: Richard on October 28, 2022, 01:22:49 PM
It might be a bit rich for a British person to complain about rain disruptions but I would say the decision to play multiple fixtures at the same venue is looking very daft.
Especially when its a 100k capacity venue with sometimes only a couple of thousand in attendance. Are there no suitable smaller grounds in less rainy areas?
Post by: Villan For Life on October 28, 2022, 02:45:45 PM
England in huge trouble now. Will have to win both games and that still might not be enough.
We need to win our remaining games, our net run rate is better than Australia’s so a couple of wins should see us progress.
There are such fine margins in T20 cricket. Against Ireland Moeen had just started to motor, if the rain had held off long enough for just a couple more balls to be bowled then we’d have probably been ahead of the DLS score.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 28, 2022, 02:59:47 PM
As for England if you choose to bowl first when rain is around your advantage is to know where you need to be for DLS. They made a hash of it and never got in front.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 28, 2022, 10:42:58 PM
England in huge trouble now. Will have to win both games and that still might not be enough.
Yeah going to be tricky to get through now. Could have been worse though - don't know how we would have fared in a 5 over shoot out when Hazelwood, Starc and Cummins would have been bowling 3 of them.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2022, 12:04:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 31, 2022, 10:14:54 AM
England really have ballsed this up - didn’t beat Afghanistan as comprehensively as they should have, and then lost to Ireland because they were sloppy and not proactive enough. To stand a chance of going through they’re not only going to have to beat both NZ and Sri Lanka, but they’re probably going to have to hammer at least one of them.
Post by: Richard on October 31, 2022, 11:28:24 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 31, 2022, 11:49:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 08:30:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 08:40:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 09:23:56 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 09:33:11 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 09:55:48 AM
The pitch seems to have slowed too.
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 10:19:39 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 10:26:41 AM
Stokes has gone off the field, it looks like he’s damaged a finger on his left hand. It’s possibly the same finger that he broke in the IPL and kept him out of the game for a long time.
I feared the worst but he’s back out there
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 10:36:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 10:38:19 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 10:45:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 10:49:53 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2022, 10:50:45 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 10:55:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 10:58:01 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 11:01:28 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2022, 11:03:44 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 11:10:18 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 01, 2022, 11:10:36 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 11:14:38 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2022, 11:16:41 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 01, 2022, 11:22:02 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 01, 2022, 11:27:35 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 01, 2022, 11:29:26 AM
Post by: Rory on November 01, 2022, 12:34:11 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 01, 2022, 01:27:25 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 01, 2022, 11:46:49 PM
Good and important win.
Very good win and barring the Aussies doing something extraordinary against Afghanistan, it's back in our hands again with us just needing to beat Sri Lanka. Would have definitely taken being in this position after losing to Ireland.
Looking like it will probably be South Africa in the semis if we beat Sri Lanka, which should be a cracker.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 02, 2022, 01:21:53 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 04, 2022, 10:53:45 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 04, 2022, 11:02:42 AM
Post by: dubont on November 04, 2022, 11:05:40 AM
Afghanistan doing their best to help us out. If they reach 122 against the Crims we only need to win against Sri Lanka, no need to worry about run rates. They are 96-2 off 12 overs so should get there easily, might even win the game.
Cricinfo and Sky reckon they need to keep them below 106.
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 04, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
Afghanistan doing their best to help us out. If they reach 122 against the Crims we only need to win against Sri Lanka, no need to worry about run rates. They are 96-2 off 12 overs so should get there easily, might even win the game.
Cricinfo and Sky reckon they need to keep them below 106.
Probably right, it was 5 Live that said 122.
Post by: charlatan on November 04, 2022, 11:13:10 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 04, 2022, 11:39:35 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 04, 2022, 11:41:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2022, 12:02:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 04, 2022, 12:43:41 PM
Thinking back to our game against Ireland this shows why DLS needs a rethink in T20. What teams can get off the last 3/4 overs is way more than the calculations allow for.
And with a team like England we have players all the way down that can hit a couple of boundaries in a pinch. Look at Tuesday for example, we had Curran and Malan in at 7 and 8 with Woakes still to come who has a t20i strike rate of nearly 146.
Against Ireland we had Ali and Livingstone at the crease with Curran and Woakes both still to come 52 from 33 (had we seen out our full allocation) with those players still around isn't a big ask, 10 an over in t20 is almost standard at this point. The issue is that the value of wickets taken is far too high in the calculations, 1 less wicket taken and England, with the same amount of runs, would've been ahead of the target when the rain came. In 50 over cricket that makes sense but in t20 you just don't get the same drop off in scoring as wickets are lost.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2022, 12:49:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 04, 2022, 01:09:57 PM
I suspect we would have won the Ireland game had it been completed. But we fully deserved to lose and showed a real lack of game management.
Oh of course, it was poor that we didn't stay well ahead of the rate given we knew there was rain about, Brook and Malan in particular seemed too happy to plod along at 5-6 an over when we were behind the rate. To be fair to Moeen he came out with a completely different mindset and I suspect if we'd got to the end of that over we'd have won, let alone the end of the game.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 07:44:08 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 08:08:16 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 08:15:58 AM
Post by: manic-road on November 05, 2022, 08:24:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 08:32:12 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 08:37:45 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 08:59:33 AM
Post by: manic-road on November 05, 2022, 09:19:10 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 05, 2022, 09:22:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 09:31:58 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 05, 2022, 09:36:32 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 05, 2022, 09:40:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 10:10:27 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 05, 2022, 10:17:29 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 05, 2022, 10:43:04 AM
Honestly these England boys ...they never listen I said take it easy ;D
I think they got it spot on, took the runs early whilst the field restrictions favoured them, which takes away the pressure of having to score big runs in the middle overs against the spinners. This part of the reply was always going to be where it got difficult, we need to be careful with losing too many wickets like that Brook one, that was a really poor shot. I like Livingstone though and he's generally good against spin, so probably a good option to come in here.
Post by: paul_e on November 05, 2022, 10:58:20 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 05, 2022, 11:07:42 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 05, 2022, 11:11:02 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 05, 2022, 11:12:44 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 05, 2022, 11:22:12 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 05, 2022, 11:22:55 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 05, 2022, 11:23:27 AM
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Post by: paul_e on November 05, 2022, 11:25:45 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 05, 2022, 11:28:02 AM
Never mind, we're in the semi finals now, likely going to be against India.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 05, 2022, 10:45:49 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 06, 2022, 12:19:56 AM
Interesting pitch - as soon as the ball scuffed up it seemed to become pretty tricky. Hales’ knock was key and Stokes played an excellent knock.
Yep, was definitely one where you needed to score off the new ball. What was strange though is that it normally happens because the spinners can keep the ball low making it tough to pick on length but here it was getting extra bounce if anything. It meant the biggest problem was stopping the players from thinking the deliveries were 'bad' balls when they were actually at a good length. That's why we had a couple of shots that came through early (Buttler and Livingstone both did it) and a couple that were 'punched' as if playing for a single but ended up being catching practice (Brook an Moeen).
Post by: Rory on November 06, 2022, 03:18:28 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 06, 2022, 06:04:30 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 06, 2022, 07:26:12 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 06, 2022, 09:59:54 AM
Are you going to Pakistan for Test series?
Post by: Lsvilla on November 06, 2022, 10:25:04 AM
Lsvilla was compelling morning of T20 cricket. Why do SA do it again and again? Think you could be right about the final. England I think will deffo beat India.Hiya. No I don't think so. Home on the 17th. Will probably spend late November and December in front of the fire watching the footy World Cup - although I am very tempted Lahore was amazing and met some great contacts for tickets / hospitality etc if I went particularly to Islamabad. Are you going ? We're definitely going to NZ and I want to go to Bangladesh in March but that would be another solo one as Sharon wouldn't do it.
Are you going to Pakistan for Test series?
As regards this tournament anyone could win it now. SA weighted down by my money on them e/w in the end I fear. Would love it to be us.
Post by: olaftab on November 06, 2022, 11:32:32 AM
Still undecided about NZ. My mate can't go so thinking if the tour in December 24 is a better option.
Post by: manic-road on November 09, 2022, 08:45:23 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 09, 2022, 12:21:24 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 09, 2022, 12:22:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 07:31:16 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 07:34:53 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 10, 2022, 08:09:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 08:30:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 08:38:57 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 08:51:12 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 10, 2022, 09:03:00 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 09:04:29 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 10, 2022, 09:13:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 09:19:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 09:29:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 09:30:31 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 09:38:49 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 10, 2022, 09:38:58 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on November 10, 2022, 09:39:32 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 10:30:17 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2022, 10:35:51 AM
terrific start from England. Massive opportunity.
I turned off after their innings a made bit of grub, expected to see us a few down when I just checked again, bloody hell!
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 10:41:11 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2022, 10:45:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 10:48:57 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2022, 10:50:53 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 10, 2022, 10:52:01 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2022, 10:54:47 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2022, 10:55:45 AM
Post by: Gareth on November 10, 2022, 10:57:22 AM
If India get 160 here i think it’d be incredible hard to chase.
Can you predict a 5-0 home win tonight please Paul :-)
Think it’s fair to say reintegration of Hales has gone ok so far :-)
Post by: olaftab on November 10, 2022, 10:57:39 AM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2022, 10:58:34 AM
Post by: Gareth on November 10, 2022, 10:58:37 AM
Ha ha, that was as funny as fuck!
Drop and knock 20 yards into boundary…spot fixers wet dream :/)
Post by: olaftab on November 10, 2022, 11:02:37 AM
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2022, 11:04:12 AM
Take that you fucking arrogant ******. (aimed more at Indian cricket board rather then players)
Though smacking the winning six over the top of a flailing Kohli was pretty sweet.
Post by: olaftab on November 10, 2022, 11:05:28 AM
Yes yes...thought the same and was going to post that but child in me got the insult in first.Take that you fucking arrogant ******. (aimed more at Indian cricket board rather then players)
Though smacking the winning six over the top of a flailing Kohli was pretty sweet.
Post by: LeeB on November 10, 2022, 11:06:02 AM
Yes yes...thought the same and was going to post that but child in me got the insult in first.Take that you fucking arrogant ******. (aimed more at Indian cricket board rather then players)
Though smacking the winning six over the top of a flailing Kohli was pretty sweet.
:)
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2022, 11:06:36 AM
If India get 160 here i think it’d be incredible hard to chase.
Can you predict a 5-0 home win tonight please Paul :-)
Think it’s fair to say reintegration of Hales has gone ok so far :-)
Indeed!
Post by: Villa Lew on November 10, 2022, 11:09:25 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on November 10, 2022, 11:13:21 AM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Villa Lew on November 10, 2022, 11:21:00 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 10, 2022, 11:30:49 AM
I watched the Indian innings before I left for work and listened to our innings in the car driving to work. Happily there were no whinging Aussie commentators willing us to lose so it was a much more enjoyable listen.
Unfortunately Aggers was saying that the weather forecast for Melbourne on Sunday isn’t good with plenty of rain forecast. I hope not!
Post by: paul_e on November 10, 2022, 11:34:05 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on November 10, 2022, 11:54:37 AM
I hope weather doesn't ruin the final because it could be a belter of a game.
just looked on the Beeb weather ste and sadly it looks possible as it is showing thundery showers with 30%odd chance of rain....hope it stays dry as it could be a corker of a game.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2022, 11:58:24 AM
Post by: Rory on November 10, 2022, 01:28:32 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 10, 2022, 01:42:19 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 10, 2022, 01:48:56 PM
Post by: KNVillan on November 10, 2022, 05:30:05 PM
https://twitter.com/skycricket/status/1590753429860896769?s=61&t=kaC0tlEgWDItiYDXB-QoHQ
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 10, 2022, 05:45:20 PM
Post by: Singapore Villa on November 11, 2022, 01:11:27 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 11, 2022, 01:20:19 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 11, 2022, 01:27:01 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/63593426
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 11, 2022, 04:19:06 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 11, 2022, 05:59:11 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on November 12, 2022, 07:30:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 12, 2022, 10:10:33 PM
Post by: Rory on November 13, 2022, 03:35:01 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 13, 2022, 05:04:18 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 08:03:33 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 08:07:34 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 08:21:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 08:25:10 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 08:26:31 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 08:28:47 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 08:30:26 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 08:33:10 AM
Duckworth Lewis cold be a factor so wickets are vital to keep the asking rate down.
Definitely but so far they haven’t mentioned the weather on the Sky coverage so fingers crossed!
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 08:39:22 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 08:40:11 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 08:52:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 08:56:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 08:57:43 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 08:57:47 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 09:00:57 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
Dil strikes.
What a brilliant over that was.
Post by: bilsim on November 13, 2022, 09:04:45 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 09:04:48 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 09:26:23 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 09:26:33 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 09:30:11 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 09:30:57 AM
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/300737986/australian-allrounder-glenn-maxwell-breaks-leg-in-freak-birthday-party-accident
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 09:32:24 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 09:35:47 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 09:35:57 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 09:36:48 AM
Not bad for someone only there "for wrong reasons".Dil strikes.What a brilliant over that was.
https://wisden.com/series-stories/t20-world-cup-2022-series-stories/mark-butcher-adil-rashids-england-selection-race-eng-ind-t20wc
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 09:37:39 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 09:38:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 09:41:22 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 09:41:33 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 09:43:02 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 09:45:18 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on November 13, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 13, 2022, 09:46:11 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 09:47:07 AM
It’s starting to rainThere will still be some play even if it does rain. Restricting Pakistan to such a mediocre total will help as well if it's only 10 overs.
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2022, 09:49:08 AM
I reckon that's 20 below par.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 13, 2022, 09:50:41 AM
Not bad for someone only there "for wrong reasons".Dil strikes.What a brilliant over that was.
https://wisden.com/series-stories/t20-world-cup-2022-series-stories/mark-butcher-adil-rashids-england-selection-race-eng-ind-t20wc
Sorry, but that is a load of bollocks. He's been one of the best T20 spinners in the world for a number of years now and a big part of the England white ball team. Wisden is almost an institution in the game in this country, but it continues to push a political agenda through nonsensical stories like this.
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 10:00:23 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 10:01:38 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 10:02:06 AM
Bugger, didn’t want that…Hales gone
A fantastic delivery though.
Why did the camera follow Hales right down the tunnel? They didn’t do that with any of the Pakistan wickets. Same old Aussies.
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 10:02:34 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 10:15:44 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 10:15:52 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 10:18:44 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 10:21:50 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 10:23:39 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2022, 10:25:09 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 10:25:41 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 10:27:17 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on November 13, 2022, 10:27:55 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 10:29:16 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 10:31:09 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 10:33:07 AM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 13, 2022, 10:33:53 AM
Anyway, confident hat back on, be nice to see a Brummie knock the winning run.
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 10:36:13 AM
Surely England can't lose a third World Cup game in one weekend. Surely...
Anyway, confident hat back on, be nice to see a Brummie knock the winning run.
I’d rather we didn’t lose anymore wickets!
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 13, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 10:41:40 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 10:50:41 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 11:01:17 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 11:07:20 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 11:11:27 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 11:11:47 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 11:13:21 AM
Afridi not likely to bowl his remaining 2 overs.
Back on the pitch…moving freely.
Take that back…he is not moving freely
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 11:22:52 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 11:24:26 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2022, 11:33:09 AM
Surely England can't lose a third World Cup game in one weekend. Surely...
Anyway, confident hat back on, be nice to see a Brummie knock the winning run.
This is on, come on Moeen!
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2022, 11:33:26 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 11:33:51 AM
Surely England can't lose a third World Cup game in one weekend. Surely...
Anyway, confident hat back on, be nice to see a Brummie knock the winning run.
This is on, come on Moeen!
Not with Moeen
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 11:35:32 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 13, 2022, 11:36:51 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 11:38:12 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 11:38:25 AM
Well played Pakistan too, wonderful match
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2022, 11:38:28 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on November 13, 2022, 11:41:26 AM
Post by: KNVillan on November 13, 2022, 11:53:53 AM
Post by: Rory on November 13, 2022, 11:59:56 AM
Post by: beness on November 13, 2022, 12:02:22 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on November 13, 2022, 12:31:51 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 13, 2022, 12:32:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 13, 2022, 01:37:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 13, 2022, 01:48:05 PM
Credit to the squad and if you consider that we won it without several first choice players like Bairstow, Root, Malan, Archer & Wood shows the depth of talent we have in white ball cricket.
Post by: Lsvilla on November 16, 2022, 08:14:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 17, 2022, 07:07:31 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 18, 2022, 07:11:41 PM
Mainly for Olaftab - appears the first test in Pakistan may be moved from Rawalpindi to Karachi. To be confirmed next week.Now seems that the schedule has been confirmed as originally planned.
Post by: manic-road on November 19, 2022, 12:34:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2022, 06:47:39 AM
Post by: JD on December 01, 2022, 07:01:07 AM
Mental start from England.
It is Paul. After 25 overs the run rate is nearly 7 runs an over.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 01, 2022, 07:52:52 AM
When the news broke about the virus in the squad I feared that we would struggle to compete but things are looking good so far.
Post by: manic-road on December 01, 2022, 08:40:38 AM
248-2 and not even 40 overs bowled.
Post by: manic-road on December 01, 2022, 10:48:06 AM
Root will be disappointed he didn't cash in on a flat track, reverse sweep did for him.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 01, 2022, 11:41:21 AM
Post by: Drummond on December 01, 2022, 11:45:28 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on December 01, 2022, 11:49:31 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 01, 2022, 11:50:19 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 01, 2022, 11:53:28 AM
Haven't been around here since the WC started but yes good that it stayed put. "The Captain" would have committed political suicide by carrying on with his movement in the capital in this period causing the match to be moved.Mainly for Olaftab - appears the first test in Pakistan may be moved from Rawalpindi to Karachi. To be confirmed next week.Now seems that the schedule has been confirmed as originally planned.
Post by: Villa Lew on December 01, 2022, 12:04:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 01, 2022, 07:26:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 01, 2022, 09:23:28 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 01, 2022, 09:25:22 PM
Jessop still has his record, which is nice for us Glos supportersDoes he still have the camera shop in Temple Row?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 02, 2022, 01:35:07 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 02, 2022, 11:03:17 AM
EDIT - line to the ground lost...coincidence ?
Post by: Risso on December 02, 2022, 12:22:33 PM
Post by: Monty on December 02, 2022, 12:55:25 PM
Is this just the flattest batting wicket there's ever been?!
Stunning isn't it. Best evidence the flat-earth nutters will ever find.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 02, 2022, 02:33:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 02, 2022, 02:57:20 PM
Is this just the flattest batting wicket there's ever been?!Far too friendly this pitch but here is one flatter.
RESULT
1st Test, Colombo (RPS), August 02 - 06, 1997,
India tour of Sri Lanka
India
537/8d
Sri Lanka
952/6d
Match drawn
Post by: Rory on December 03, 2022, 05:01:45 AM
Is this just the flattest batting wicket there's ever been?!
Stunning isn't it. Best evidence the flat-earth nutters will ever find.
Playing in the dustbowl that is UAE for all those years was shite, it was no good for anybody whose name wasn't Saeed Ajmal.
I was quite looking forward to a nice green top, but instead we get this.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 03, 2022, 11:24:30 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 03, 2022, 11:48:50 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 03, 2022, 03:24:54 PM
There is a possible win here in the next two days.Yep. I make England favourites. Skybet disagree and favour the draw.
Post by: manic-road on December 04, 2022, 09:38:51 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 04, 2022, 10:30:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 04, 2022, 10:40:29 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 04, 2022, 10:57:53 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 04, 2022, 12:52:58 PM
We leaked quite a few boundaries at the end and they now need 263 with 8 wickets remaining (or potentially 7 if the injured batsman can't return). Still looks a big task, but given how games have been going over the past year, certainly not out of the question.
Post by: olaftab on December 04, 2022, 01:18:11 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 04, 2022, 07:55:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 04, 2022, 08:57:47 PM
To even get into a position to win on such a fucking awful wicket is astonishing, and yes, Pakistan might chase it down but this is transforming Test cricket.
Yup it’s a good way to play and we’ll win more than we lose by doing it.
Post by: olaftab on December 04, 2022, 09:02:03 PM
To even get into a position to win on such a fucking awful wicket is astonishing, and yes, Pakistan might chase it down but this is transforming Test cricket.It’s not an awful wicket. An awful wicket is where match is over in 2 and half days and 3/4 players take nasty knocks due to uneven bounce.
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 04, 2022, 09:22:10 PM
To even get into a position to win on such a fucking awful wicket is astonishing, and yes, Pakistan might chase it down but this is transforming Test cricket.It’s not an awful wicket. An awful wicket is where match is over in 2 and half days and 3/4 players take nasty knocks due to uneven bounce.
It is an awful wicket, nasty bouncers are also awful wickets as well, but these days there is no excuse for any ground not to produce a wicket that balances ball / bat. This pitch had draw all over it, nothing for the seamers, wasn't turning for the spinners, might as well have been playing on glass.
It's only because Stokes and Baz have decided that draws are boring that we might get a result.
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 04, 2022, 10:26:41 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 05, 2022, 09:03:18 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 05, 2022, 09:22:12 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 05, 2022, 09:32:09 AM
Why are they not getting in the full overs even once in this test? If it's because of bad light.. turn the lights on, FFS! Cricket really doesn't help itself.
The lights have been on but are pretty rubbish
Post by: LeeB on December 05, 2022, 10:39:36 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 05, 2022, 11:15:03 AM
Instead its the most total runs ever scored in a non-timeless test
Post by: paul_e on December 05, 2022, 11:20:01 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 05, 2022, 11:37:39 AM
Under review
Post by: UK Redsox on December 05, 2022, 11:39:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 05, 2022, 11:40:14 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 05, 2022, 11:41:18 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 05, 2022, 11:41:28 AM
And now no country can ever think they can just prepare a flat pich to get a draw when playing England.
Post by: LeeB on December 05, 2022, 11:42:19 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 05, 2022, 11:42:57 AM
Post by: paul_e on December 05, 2022, 11:47:41 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 05, 2022, 11:47:49 AM
Or start an hour earlier, it was perfect conditions when they were warming up this morning.There are a couple of problems. This is winter season over there and Pindi suffers from huge amount of pollution, not quite Delhi or Shanghai standard but nevertheless enough to impact light both in the morning and late afternoon. Floodlights work best when atmosphere is clean and clear.
Post by: Villa Lew on December 05, 2022, 11:48:30 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 05, 2022, 11:53:13 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 05, 2022, 11:53:32 AM
I wonder if that's yet another record ?
Post by: Villan For Life on December 05, 2022, 01:15:29 PM
Post by: Risso on December 05, 2022, 01:34:13 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 05, 2022, 04:33:33 PM
County coaches also need to look at this and play like this, if England are to continue playing "Bazball" for the next few years we need a conveyor belt of talent coming through who are able to shift seamlessly from county to Test.
Post by: Gareth on December 05, 2022, 05:15:14 PM
So now County cricket needs to get on the red ball bandwagon, more red ball cricket on weekends and no elongated breaks for contrived rubbish like The Hundred.
County coaches also need to look at this and play like this, if England are to continue playing "Bazball" for the next few years we need a conveyor belt of talent coming through who are able to shift seamlessly from county to Test.
100% spot on Dave…suits trying to milk money out of hopeless nonsense like Hundred rather than support proper cricket are a hindrance not a help
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 05, 2022, 06:46:28 PM
Post by: Beard82 on December 05, 2022, 08:29:29 PM
Funnily Lords tickets went on sale today - and todays action convinced me to buy tickets for that!
Stokes and McCullum have done amazing job - goes against my instincts but am loving it!
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 05, 2022, 08:33:43 PM
Post by: Beard82 on December 05, 2022, 08:41:18 PM
I think the bit that annoys me is that detractors seem to suggest it’s just slog and no skill. Throughout the batting and, in particular, in the field it’s really skilful and considered. It’s just maximising aggression as part of that.100% - its aggressive but not reckless. I think it will catch on, and others will replicate and it will be the "style" of this generation of test teams
Post by: Steve67 on December 05, 2022, 09:23:31 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 07, 2022, 02:03:26 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 07, 2022, 10:41:17 AM
I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
As much as they might like us to think that all series are as important as the others, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they're in a declaration situation during the Ashes.
As great as Babar is, would they take the same risk against Warner, Smith and Labuschagne
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 07, 2022, 10:49:58 AM
I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
As much as they might like us to think that all series are as important as the others, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they're in a declaration situation during the Ashes.
As great as Babar is, would they take the same risk against Warner, Smith and Labuschagne
I reckon Stokes would, I honestly think he would rather lose a game rather than draw it. Maybe he will be reigned in by his team mates and coaches if the scenario comes up but if it comes down to his decision I think he'd go for the win.
Post by: UK Redsox on December 07, 2022, 10:59:31 AM
Whether he'll go for it a second time if it goes very wrong the first time, is probably a better question.
Post by: olaftab on December 07, 2022, 11:46:10 AM
Yes because other Captains have done that and came up good against Australia on the subcontinent. The thing that will impact Stokes decision is not Smith & Co but the overall situation. For example is it a first test in the series, does he need to win to save series, or by losing does he let them back into the series etc etc.I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
As much as they might like us to think that all series are as important as the others, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they're in a declaration situation during the Ashes.
As great as Babar is, would they take the same risk against Warner, Smith and Labuschagne
Post by: Drummond on December 07, 2022, 12:35:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on December 07, 2022, 01:08:54 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 07, 2022, 05:00:40 PM
I agree, I think that Stokes will go for it.
Whether he'll go for it a second time if it goes very wrong the first time, is probably a better question.
Yes, at some point statistics tell us that it will go badly wrong, but I reckon that is factored in, Stokes and McCullum know they will get stuffed eventually, but I can't see that altering the mindset unless it happens 3 or 4 times in a row.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 07, 2022, 09:59:05 PM
I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
As much as they might like us to think that all series are as important as the others, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they're in a declaration situation during the Ashes.
As great as Babar is, would they take the same risk against Warner, Smith and Labuschagne
I do think the conditions in Pakistan played a lot into that decision. Declaring 380 odd ahead would be a pretty secure position in most conditions.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2022, 08:36:41 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 08, 2022, 06:01:57 PM
Probably wanted a bit more bowling cover if Wood breaks down
Post by: Villan For Life on December 09, 2022, 05:13:51 AM
Surprising decision after the way Stokes praised Foakes when he was appointed captain.
Probably wanted a bit more bowling cover if Wood breaks down
I think they want Wood in the team and Livingstone’s injury has allowed them to do that. As you say playing six bowlers gives cover for Wood and gives variety/depth. It’s the kind of decision that only gets made in the subcontinent, I expect Foakes to be back behind the stumps in New Zealand early next year.
Bizarrely Duckett has been practicing his keeping skills in case Pope’s workload takes it’s toll.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2022, 06:59:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2022, 07:15:42 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 09, 2022, 07:19:58 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 09, 2022, 07:22:03 AM
Might be new England but a spinner on debut ripping through us is very traditional.
A 5-fer before lunch on day one on your debut is impressive stuff. As you say traditional stuff from England but let’s see what happens, three attacking shots have lead to three wickets.
Post by: Steve67 on December 09, 2022, 07:23:59 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 09, 2022, 07:33:41 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 09, 2022, 09:05:41 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2022, 09:29:04 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 09, 2022, 10:00:07 AM
Post by: LeeB on December 09, 2022, 10:41:38 AM
Looks a disappointing score but you just never know with this team.
It does, but with the previous approach we'd have been out for about 120 in more overs.
Post by: olaftab on December 09, 2022, 10:47:22 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 09, 2022, 11:13:13 AM
(that should do it ;) )
Post by: Dr Butler on December 09, 2022, 11:23:10 AM
Babar Azam is a wonderful batsman.
(that should do it ;) )
he certainly is and hopefully olaftab :)
UTV
The Doc
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2022, 11:30:36 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2022, 11:57:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 09, 2022, 12:17:49 PM
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 09, 2022, 12:26:30 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 09, 2022, 04:38:07 PM
The benefit of England’s approach is they got 280. I think some people forget that we’ve seen us be more judicious in the past and still get rolled over. I reckon if we’d been tentative today we would have still been out, but probably for about 150.
I think if they are going to continue to play in the manner they have been under Stokes and McCullum, then days like today are going to happen.
I'm still not sure it's the best approach to test cricket, as if you get a relatively low first innings score in quick time, the opposition have plenty of time to put themselves in a dominant position. Works very well if you can get a very big first innings score quickly like in the last test though.
Despite not being sure about it, I'm fine with them going with that approach as long as they firmly believe in it and stick with it. If their approach is clear and resolute, then they can be judged on that and the results it brings. It's brought some pretty spectacular results so far, but there will be some bad losses on the way.
Post by: olaftab on December 09, 2022, 05:00:13 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 10, 2022, 01:07:19 AM
Match is wonderfully balanced with slight edge for England.
The worry for me in this series is Babar Azam. I think he is capable of producing match winning knocks and think we certainly need to see the back of him quite early tomorrow.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 10, 2022, 09:12:44 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 10, 2022, 09:30:59 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 10, 2022, 12:53:47 PM
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/800/cpsprodpb/46D8/production/_127963181_gettyimages-1448068158.jpg)
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 10, 2022, 02:58:00 PM
Post by: Steve67 on December 10, 2022, 06:52:33 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 10, 2022, 06:56:01 PM
Unfortunate choice/timing of photograph, or is Robinson still a bit of a nob ?Not seeing anything wrong there IMO. It's international sport.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/800/cpsprodpb/46D8/production/_127963181_gettyimages-1448068158.jpg)
Post by: paul_e on December 10, 2022, 07:15:05 PM
We still need another 100 or so to bat Pakistan out of the game. Hope this tails wags a bit in the morning, definitely ours to lose now.
On this pitch I think we might have enough already but given how much time there is I think we'll bat until lunch if we can.
Post by: Steve67 on December 10, 2022, 08:04:43 PM
We still need another 100 or so to bat Pakistan out of the game. Hope this tails wags a bit in the morning, definitely ours to lose now.
On this pitch I think we might have enough already but given how much time there is I think we'll bat until lunch if we can.
I agree Paul. Hopefully one of the two in now stays around and anchors the tail. It would be lovely to watch an hour of Stokes at his attacking best though!
Post by: Steve67 on December 10, 2022, 08:07:30 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 10, 2022, 09:10:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 11, 2022, 07:27:00 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 11, 2022, 07:43:11 AM
Well Pakistan have made a cracking start. Not panic stations yet, but need to start making inroads.
It’s certainly game on, we need a breakthrough soon though. Imam may not bat, he’s at a hospital having a scan on a hamstring injury so we should be able to capitalise.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 11, 2022, 07:49:09 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 11, 2022, 08:04:25 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 11, 2022, 08:35:46 AM
Well Pakistan have made a cracking start. Not panic stations yet, but need to start making inroads.
It’s certainly game on, we need a breakthrough soon though. Imam may not bat, he’s at a hospital having a scan on a hamstring injury so we should be able to capitalise.
Apparently he’s back at the ground and he will bat.
Post by: olaftab on December 11, 2022, 11:43:23 AM
Post by: paul_e on December 11, 2022, 11:43:57 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 11, 2022, 12:40:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 11, 2022, 12:50:48 PM
I think this current Pakistan team is full of immense talent but still a bit fragile at the moment. Once they slip to 4/5 down then it's inevitable that they will be bowled out for 75 to 100 additional runs at best. This is likely to be the scenario tomorrow.
yep 1 more wicket and we're into a very long tail.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 05:08:16 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 06:09:16 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 06:43:22 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Post by: DrGonzo on December 12, 2022, 07:04:07 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 12, 2022, 07:25:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 12, 2022, 07:26:15 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 07:44:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 12, 2022, 07:49:58 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 07:54:09 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 08:32:10 AM
Well done England and Pakistan pushed us right until the end.
Post by: DrGonzo on December 12, 2022, 08:36:59 AM
Post by: Richard on December 12, 2022, 08:54:00 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 12, 2022, 09:02:25 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 12, 2022, 09:09:47 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 12, 2022, 09:21:09 AM
Post by: Risso on December 12, 2022, 11:16:51 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 12, 2022, 11:29:28 AM
Ahmed Jennings is a great name.Before Keaton was given full English credentials he had to change his first name that was locally acceptable in Lancashire.
Post by: olaftab on December 12, 2022, 11:33:27 AM
That was getting really tight but we got there in the end. Any series win on the subcontinent by a visiting team is huge.These two Test matches have done more for Test cricket than last few one sided Ashes series. Both teams have been great. When was the last time a team scoring the the highest innings total specially in the 4th lost the match? When was the last time two team scored around 600 in their first innings and we still had a result? It's amazing what can be done by not accepting earth is flat!
Well done England and Pakistan pushed us right until the end.
Post by: DrGonzo on December 12, 2022, 11:37:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 12, 2022, 12:31:38 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 12, 2022, 01:12:27 PM
Robinson’s fitness has come on leaps and bounds so you’d hope he’d be alright. He’s an unbelievable bowler.
Yep, hits a good line and length consistently and his height gives him that extra bounce.
No need to risk Mark Wood in the next test given his injury record, so Overton in for him. Would probably be wise to rest Jimmy as well but don't think we have any other seam options in the squad?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 12, 2022, 01:16:44 PM
With the series in the bag, the final test could be even more spectacular.
Post by: simboy on December 12, 2022, 01:48:50 PM
We are bound to lose a few Tests playing this way but it is fun to watch. When you consider Bairstow is missing and a case can be made for Buttler to keep [I'm not making it, just that it can be made!] we are an exciting side.
I still think we are a quality spinner away from being a very good side and challenging the Aussies on their own patch.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 12, 2022, 03:08:23 PM
Really good series win that. First Test on a road where we forced the game and this one when scoring probably 100 below par on first inning.
We are bound to lose a few Tests playing this way but it is fun to watch. When you consider Bairstow is missing and a case can be made for Buttler to keep [I'm not making it, just that it can be made!] we are an exciting side.
I still think we are a quality spinner away from being a very good side and challenging the Aussies on their own patch.
Jacks developing into an international quality spinner would be
very welcome and would give us some flexibility in the batting line up.
Post by: olaftab on December 12, 2022, 04:39:40 PM
Shakeel out just before lunch, we should go on and win this now, their tail is very weak. A very close decision which went to review and the TV replay umpire seemed to take ages. Joel Wilson kept us hanging!Got away with one there. The ball is clearly kissing grass. Big decision that went England's way but as they say luck favours the brave.
Post by: Villa Lew on December 12, 2022, 04:54:08 PM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on December 12, 2022, 04:58:21 PM
Robinson’s fitness has come on leaps and bounds so you’d hope he’d be alright. He’s an unbelievable bowler.
Robinson reminds me of Glenn McGrath, metronomic line and length, every ball in the same spot but you never know what it will do after pitching.
Post by: Steve67 on December 12, 2022, 07:38:41 PM
Harry Brook looks like he's going to be some player.
Blimey, I forgot about Archer and Stone too! Broad isn't going to get back in at this rate!
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 12, 2022, 08:02:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 13, 2022, 10:13:05 AM
Shakeel out just before lunch, we should go on and win this now, their tail is very weak. A very close decision which went to review and the TV replay umpire seemed to take ages. Joel Wilson kept us hanging!Got away with one there. The ball is clearly kissing grass. Big decision that went England's way but as they say luck favours the brave.
That one shows the importance of the on-field call. If the soft signal had been not out it wouldn't have been overturned.
This is where football annoys me with the VAR implementation, both cricket and rugby give the option for the on-field official to give a soft decision and ask for evidence to change their mind
Post by: paul_e on December 13, 2022, 10:21:02 AM
Can't wait to see Bairstow in the line up. Don't know he will play though with Pope and Brook doing so well. Lovely not to have to rely on the runs scoring of Root. If Pope kept the gloves and pads, we could possibly push Stokes down as far as 7. Wood, Leach, Jimmy and Robinson, great to have options.
Harry Brook looks like he's going to be some player.
Blimey, I forgot about Archer and Stone too! Broad isn't going to get back in at this rate!
I hope (and think I'm right) that going forward our middle order will be a little more fluid than we're used to. Having 5-8 who can all move around the order to fit the game situation would be the next step to being able to really push on from the very good changes we've already seen. Doing that opens the door to have a genuine slogger in there (i.e. Livingstone) as a counter-attack option. The other big benefit of where we are right now is that we have a lot of bowling depth.
Post by: Risso on December 13, 2022, 11:33:27 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 13, 2022, 12:55:22 PM
Robinson has to start for me as well. Means we could potentially rotate Broad and Anderson as his opening partner and hopefully have Wood and Archer in the 'enforcer role.
Post by: DrGonzo on December 14, 2022, 05:02:02 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 15, 2022, 01:01:37 AM
Post by: Rory on December 15, 2022, 02:54:56 AM
Poor captains who keep the quicks on for too long, the sheer strain of bowling at 90mph, or both?
It's strange, because the trend from the mid-90s to maybe five years ago has been to have out-and-out pacers like Akhtar, Tait & Lee who run in like a train and are used in short bursts because anything else would destroy them.
But we've definitely moved back towards fast bowlers who are able to sacrifice 2/3mph in exchange for bowling prolonged spells, like Bumrah, Cummins or Boult.
The latter are the ones who remind me of Lillee/Thommo or the great West Indians - all of those were rapid, but realised that if you can beat the bat for pace at 96mph you probably can at 90mph, and going 100% every ball isn't the best approach.
Archer looked to have a nice loose action and didn't appear to be stressing his body too much in the delivery, so I don't blame the coaches for thinking he was good for longer spells.
But fast bowling is an unpredictable business. I got out my 2005 Ashes boxset a couple of weeks ago, and was surprised how fast Flintoff was bowling - rarely below 88mph - and if ever there was a man whose build and action did not cry out 'pace', it was Freddie.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 15, 2022, 12:50:26 PM
From what I have heard Archer is not going to return to Test cricket, a shame but unsuprising, look at the struggles with fitness that Wood has had over the years, if it wasn't for his buddy Stokes captaining the team he was thinking of retiring from tests, too. We seem to have issues with British fast bowling, if that is down to coaching I don't know, but no other nation has it's quicks break down as much as ours do.
Stokes was quoted the other day saying that he wants Archer back for the Ashes. It is a strange one, as many fast bowlers from yester year didnt seem to have as many injuries, yet bowled a lot more.
Heard it often said that bowling puts the human body in an unnatural position and that's why injuries occur so often. Just such a shame that we have seen so little of Wood and Archer in that format in recent years.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 16, 2022, 10:09:12 AM
Hope it's not a case of too much too soon for him, as we could really do with a high quality leg spinner who can bat at 8.
Post by: Villa Lew on December 16, 2022, 10:22:29 AM
Post by: DrGonzo on December 16, 2022, 04:22:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2022, 08:05:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on December 16, 2022, 08:18:21 PM
Set to become England's youngest Test player at the age of 18 years 126 days, beating the record of the late Brian Close in 1949.
I’ll go out on a limb and predict that when he wins his final cap, he won’t be older than Close was.
Post by: DrGonzo on December 17, 2022, 06:22:34 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 17, 2022, 06:50:28 AM
As usual we are pinning our hopes on a player who we want to be that mystery spinner that we’ve generally lacked. It will be interesting to see if he’s anywhere near the squad for home tests; I hope he does well and is a feature of the side for many years to come but it really wouldn’t surprise me if he slips back into anonymity. A spinner develops their skill set much later than fast bowlers so it will be a long time before we can call him experienced and can rely on him.
Pakistan will be pleased with this session, ten minutes before lunch they are 102-2, we need to keep chipping away.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 17, 2022, 07:04:00 AM
117-3 at lunch.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 17, 2022, 07:11:19 AM
Post by: Steve67 on December 17, 2022, 11:46:10 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 17, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
Post by: Steve67 on December 17, 2022, 11:58:09 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 17, 2022, 01:51:13 PM
It’ll be interesting and nice to see Foakes back.Babar's runout showed the benefit of a proper wicketkeeper. Collecting the ball and breaking stumps in one movement. Well done to Foakes.
Post by: olaftab on December 17, 2022, 01:54:22 PM
Oh yes that was painful. Bit like watching your grandad trying to ice skate. Still a very brave man Mr Close.Set to become England's youngest Test player at the age of 18 years 126 days, beating the record of the late Brian Close in 1949.
I’ll go out on a limb and predict that when he wins his final cap, he won’t be older than Close was.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 17, 2022, 04:05:43 PM
You’ve got to go back many, many years to find a test debutant who had played so few red ball games prior to their debut. I think this is his 4th red ball game.
As usual we are pinning our hopes on a player who we want to be that mystery spinner that we’ve generally lacked. It will be interesting to see if he’s anywhere near the squad for home tests; I hope he does well and is a feature of the side for many years to come but it really wouldn’t surprise me if he slips back into anonymity. A spinner develops their skill set much later than fast bowlers so it will be a long time before we can call him experienced and can rely on him.
Pakistan will be pleased with this session, ten minutes before lunch they are 102-2, we need to keep chipping away.
It was mentioned in the studio between innings that Jack Leach has been far better since Stokes took over the captaincy. Stokes seems to back him and he looks far more confident. Having a left arm spinner provides that bit of variety as well.
What we really could do with though is a spinner who can bat at 8 as well. With no Woakes in the side, it means we field a pretty long tail.
Post by: manic-road on December 18, 2022, 09:01:28 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 18, 2022, 09:40:53 AM
Post by: simboy on December 18, 2022, 09:52:14 AM
Interesting selection problems for England in the summer.
Post by: olaftab on December 18, 2022, 10:32:25 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 18, 2022, 10:34:19 AM
Post by: olaftab on December 18, 2022, 11:51:56 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on December 18, 2022, 04:54:48 PM
Another good test match in progress, Harry Brook looks a real talent.
Big day tomorrow. Batting fourth might be a challenge on this pitch.
Post by: LeeB on December 19, 2022, 09:59:58 AM
Another good test match in progress, Harry Brook looks a real talent.
Big day tomorrow. Batting fourth might be a challenge on this pitch.
I don't know, 4 quick wickets after tea and there might be enough time to finish it tonight.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 19, 2022, 11:24:26 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on December 19, 2022, 11:26:09 AM
They’re looking to finish this tonight, so far they’ve scored 21 off 2 overs.
Post by: LeeB on December 19, 2022, 11:30:48 AM
Another good test match in progress, Harry Brook looks a real talent.
Big day tomorrow. Batting fourth might be a challenge on this pitch.
I don't know, 4 quick wickets after tea and there might be enough time to finish it tonight.
I was half joking when I posted this, lol
Post by: tomd2103 on December 19, 2022, 12:29:00 PM
Post by: LeeB on December 19, 2022, 12:42:29 PM
Unconventional stuff from Ben Stokes again in trying to finish the game tonight. Ahmed at 3, followed by himself and leaving the usual 3 and 4 as insurance policies should it not finish tonight.
It's just fantastic, all of it. What they've done in such a short space of time is incredible, the attitude they have bought into is lifting the whole sport with it.
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2022, 12:48:55 PM
Unconventional stuff from Ben Stokes again in trying to finish the game tonight. Ahmed at 3, followed by himself and leaving the usual 3 and 4 as insurance policies should it not finish tonight.
It's just fantastic, all of it. What they've done in such a short space of time is incredible, the attitude they have bought into is lifting the whole sport with it.
Dead right Lee, it's brilliant to watch. Just goes to show what a complete change in attitude and approach can accomplish.
Post by: TopDeck113 on December 19, 2022, 01:00:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 19, 2022, 01:24:47 PM
Yes, brilliant to watch. My concern is that as with any tactical innovation in sport, the opposition will work out ways to nullify it or decide to fight fire with fire. This summer's Ashes series played as a bazball showdown could easily go the way of Australia.
So be it, 10 months ago this team was a fucking embarrassment, having been smashed in the ashes and looked like a team in terminal decline against the West Indies. Since then big series wins over NZ and SA, a big test win against India and now a phenomenal series win (and probably whitewash) away in Pakistan. Whether it works long-term or not we've found an identity afters years of cautious mediocrity and, I suspect, we've changed test match cricket forever (and for the better).
English sport has spent years stymying itself through fear of losing and some fucked-up. self-imposed traditionalism that saw other countries overtaking us with innovation and creativity, I hope the FA and RFU get with the program and give themselves a similar kick up the arse.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 19, 2022, 01:34:47 PM
Yes, brilliant to watch. My concern is that as with any tactical innovation in sport, the opposition will work out ways to nullify it or decide to fight fire with fire. This summer's Ashes series played as a bazball showdown could easily go the way of Australia.
The two tests in New Zealand in the New Year will be a test. NZ very rarely lose tests at home, so it will be a challenge. Nice to be really looking forward to seeing them play tests again though!
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2022, 09:04:30 AM
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2022, 09:51:28 AM
Yes, brilliant to watch. My concern is that as with any tactical innovation in sport, the opposition will work out ways to nullify it or decide to fight fire with fire. This summer's Ashes series played as a bazball showdown could easily go the way of Australia.
So be it, 10 months ago this team was a fucking embarrassment, having been smashed in the ashes and looked like a team in terminal decline against the West Indies. Since then big series wins over NZ and SA, a big test win against India and now a phenomenal series win (and probably whitewash) away in Pakistan. Whether it works long-term or not we've found an identity afters years of cautious mediocrity and, I suspect, we've changed test match cricket forever (and for the better).
English sport has spent years stymying itself through fear of losing and some fucked-up. self-imposed traditionalism that saw other countries overtaking us with innovation and creativity, I hope the FA and RFU get with the program and give themselves a similar kick up the arse.
Yes indeed. They've made test cricket worth watching again. As you say, the team previously was just an embarrassment, lurching from one dismal result to another. Can't wait for the Ashes now.
Post by: olaftab on December 20, 2022, 11:02:17 AM
Post by: Risso on December 20, 2022, 11:15:12 AM
Post by: manic-road on December 20, 2022, 11:23:34 AM
Post by: Steve67 on December 20, 2022, 08:10:48 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on December 22, 2022, 11:10:42 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 23, 2022, 02:11:02 AM
Post by: Rory on December 23, 2022, 03:24:13 AM
That kind of pace is rare, but even rarer is the ability to sustain it. I think decisions must be made about where we want to focus his talents.
Post by: Villan For Life on December 23, 2022, 07:09:01 AM
I'd be very surprised if he returns in the way that was expected of him. He's not Brett Lee, he's not going to be a regular pace merchant with red & white ball. Clearly, from all the injuries he's had, while still a young man.
That kind of pace is rare, but even rarer is the ability to sustain it. I think decisions must be made about where we want to focus his talents.
I’d prefer it if Archer and Wood were fit and could bowl in tandem in the Ashes next summer. However I imagine that Archer will concentrate on white ball cricket and make a small fortune playing in franchise leagues alongside his England commitments.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 23, 2022, 10:49:46 AM
I'd be very surprised if he returns in the way that was expected of him. He's not Brett Lee, he's not going to be a regular pace merchant with red & white ball. Clearly, from all the injuries he's had, while still a young man.
That kind of pace is rare, but even rarer is the ability to sustain it. I think decisions must be made about where we want to focus his talents.
I’d prefer it if Archer and Wood were fit and could bowl in tandem in the Ashes next summer. However I imagine that Archer will concentrate on white ball cricket and make a small fortune playing in franchise leagues alongside his England commitments.
Not sure you would need both in English conditions to be honest. Jimmy will obviously play if he's still able, with Broad and Robinson being the other two opening options. We then need that 'enforcer' type who can come on and bowl quick, hostile spells and then Stokes is that fourth seam option. Could potentially see Wood and Archer rotating in that 'enforcer role if both are fit enough.
Where we could really do with both in the side is away from home, particularly in Australia, but can't see that being a possibility really.
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2022, 10:52:22 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 24, 2022, 07:05:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on December 24, 2022, 09:29:20 PM
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 25, 2022, 11:20:42 PM
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.
Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling. There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 26, 2022, 01:43:25 AM
Post by: Rory on December 26, 2022, 03:22:40 AM
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.
Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.
Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.
Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 26, 2022, 02:57:25 PM
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.
Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.
Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.
Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.
Depends on the balance of the attack I suppose. It's probably a bit easier to manage with an opening bowler, as you are really looking for that short, sharp burst at the beginning and then can be brought back.on at various points. Probably a bit more difficult with a change bowler, as they might be looking at longer spells.
I do find cricket captaincy quite intriguing really, especially the tactical side of things.
Post by: paul_e on December 26, 2022, 04:11:21 PM
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.
Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling. There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins.
To come back to this, in a session you should be bowling 30 overs and balanced teams will have at least 5 bowlers (with 1-2 batting all rounders in there) so you're looking at around 6 overs per session each. Having 1 do a little less but be the big impact option is just sensible. For me that bowler should be Archer or Wood (or maybe Stone if both are unfit), someone who can be over 90mph for the entire spell. Stokes will largely have similar short spells but is more suited to stretching things out for a few extra overs if needed so he acts as the balance in our team.
I think a big part of our problem recently is that it's beena while since we've had a genuine quick that we can rely on to be fit, rather we've had loads of 80-85mph guys who are more suited to longer spells so we've forgotten how to use real pace.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 26, 2022, 05:04:20 PM
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.
Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling. There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins.
To come back to this, in a session you should be bowling 30 overs and balanced teams will have at least 5 bowlers (with 1-2 batting all rounders in there) so you're looking at around 6 overs per session each. Having 1 do a little less but be the big impact option is just sensible. For me that bowler should be Archer or Wood (or maybe Stone if both are unfit), someone who can be over 90mph for the entire spell. Stokes will largely have similar short spells but is more suited to stretching things out for a few extra overs if needed so he acts as the balance in our team.
I think a big part of our problem recently is that it's beena while since we've had a genuine quick that we can rely on to be fit, rather we've had loads of 80-85mph guys who are more suited to longer spells so we've forgotten how to use real pace.
True Paul.
Post by: Rory on December 26, 2022, 05:24:36 PM
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.
Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.
Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.
Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.
I do find cricket captaincy quite intriguing really, especially the tactical side of things.
Oh me too. So many things that have to be considered and remembered.
Post by: Steve67 on December 26, 2022, 10:23:55 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 29, 2022, 01:53:32 AM
As a member of a five bowler attack, used in short spells as a strike bowler, Malcolm would have made far more of an impact than he did.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 29, 2022, 10:03:26 AM
I also see that the Aussies absolutely smashed South Africa again.
Post by: Risso on December 29, 2022, 06:34:07 PM
Going back to bowlers' workloads Paul, I remember Devon Malcolm being ruined as a bowler in the 90s. He was seriously quick, like Archer and Wood now, but had to be used as a stock bowler as England's batting was so crap that they had to pack the side with batsmen to make up for the fact that many of them weren't good enough.
As a member of a five bowler attack, used in short spells as a strike bowler, Malcolm would have made far more of an impact than he did.
That match against South Africa in 94 though, bloody hell. Superb bowling.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 29, 2022, 07:35:59 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 30, 2022, 02:07:45 AM
It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.
Post by: Rory on December 30, 2022, 02:33:36 AM
Risso, I know it's about impressions unless you have a speed-gun system that everyone is happy with, but I thought that day he bowled some deliveries that were the fastest I've ever seen. He clearly frightened some of the SA batsmen out.
It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.
I know what you mean. I went to an ODI years ago where Broad's average speed was recorded as 87mph, and Mitchell Johnson's was 91mph.
It's the only time I've seen Johnson live, and one of only three times I've seen Broad, so I didn't try to extrapolate, plus I was square to the wicket, but there is no chance the difference between them was only 4mph.
They were both rapid, but with Broad I could see the ball through the air, I could see it reach the batsman and the 'keeper as he took it waist-high. With Johnson, you could see the dust from the ball pitching, hear the ball hitting the glove at head-height, and that was it.
Johnson is a total cock, but if Broad was bowling at 87mph that day, Mitch was bowling 100mph easily.
Post by: Risso on December 30, 2022, 09:22:23 AM
Risso, I know it's about impressions unless you have a speed-gun system that everyone is happy with, but I thought that day he bowled some deliveries that were the fastest I've ever seen. He clearly frightened some of the SA batsmen out.
It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.
Absolutely. And Donald was an insanely quick and intimidating bowler himself, who bowled some vicious stuff in that series.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 30, 2022, 02:27:06 PM
Going back to bowlers' workloads Paul, I remember Devon Malcolm being ruined as a bowler in the 90s. He was seriously quick, like Archer and Wood now, but had to be used as a stock bowler as England's batting was so crap that they had to pack the side with batsmen to make up for the fact that many of them weren't good enough.
As a member of a five bowler attack, used in short spells as a strike bowler, Malcolm would have made far more of an impact than he did.
Steve Waugh is on record saying that he was surprised that Devon Malcolm didn't play more for England. Think the problem was that the bowlers picked up so many injuries in the 90's, we could never field a settled attack. I seem to remember that Raymond Illingworth didn't have that much time for Devon as well.
Post by: paul_e on December 30, 2022, 02:40:00 PM
What's particularly exciting right now is that we're finally using the brilliance of our white ball team to push the test team forward instead of being scared of it ruining the format.
Post by: olaftab on January 04, 2023, 01:21:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 04, 2023, 01:41:48 PM
If proof was needed that England stand apart from ROW in playing Test cricket the new way evidence from current PAK v NZL test series confirms it. First test played at Karachi ended in a draw after full 5 days with Pakistan fighting a fine rearguard action to save the natch. The second test again at Karachi is underway and after 3 days both teams have scored circa 400 and it's likely that this match will also end in a draw. This is good normal Test cricket, England play a different game.
I think these type of games are exactly what we're trying to get away from. I think the entire mindset is that it's better to lose by trying to win than to play for the draw for most of the match and part of that is to move the game along so a draw is always unlikely (without weather related problems). Longer term I think we'll need to adapt as other teams get up to speed but for now we're surprising teams by playing to win the match in every session, that's just not how test cricket has ever been played.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 10, 2023, 08:13:08 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on January 10, 2023, 09:27:11 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 11, 2023, 08:00:04 AM
I know that South Africa cricket is in desperate need of money, but the “Mumbai Indians of Cape Town” is right up there with the “Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim” for daft sports franchise names.
All of the teams in the South African SA20 competition are owned by IPL teams, they’re also wearing similar coloured clothing etc.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2023, 08:04:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 27, 2023, 04:32:21 PM
Really nice to see Roy getting some runs.
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 28, 2023, 02:43:59 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 28, 2023, 02:51:50 AM
Well, that didn't end too well, did it?
Our form in the 50 over format hasn't been great for a while now. Wonder if it has anything to do with the players hardly ever playing that format anymore.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2023, 01:38:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on January 29, 2023, 12:15:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 29, 2023, 04:36:34 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 30, 2023, 01:59:24 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 30, 2023, 03:05:03 AM
Post by: Dr Butler on February 01, 2023, 02:58:14 PM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: paul_e on February 01, 2023, 03:15:33 PM
20-3 after 10 overs...England are now 346 off their 50 overs...a great effort after losing those early wickets.
UTV
The Doc
If Buttler scores, and gets any support, we post competitive scores. If Buttler goes cheaply we struggle, I love watching the guy bat but England really need to find a way to reduce their reliance on him in ODIs.
Post by: Dr Butler on February 01, 2023, 03:53:53 PM
20-3 after 10 overs...England are now 346 off their 50 overs...a great effort after losing those early wickets.
UTV
The Doc
If Buttler scores, and gets any support, we post competitive scores. If Buttler goes cheaply we struggle, I love watching the guy bat but England really need to find a way to reduce their reliance on him in ODIs.
agreed....Bairstow, Root and Stokes could take some of the pressure of Buttler when and if they return.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: beness on February 01, 2023, 06:27:47 PM
Post by: beness on February 01, 2023, 06:44:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2023, 07:34:03 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 10, 2023, 01:32:32 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on February 10, 2023, 08:33:47 PM
That might not look 'comfortable', but I've a feeling most sides won't have a lot of batting past number 5. Neither of these did.
Post by: manic-road on February 11, 2023, 11:35:11 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 11, 2023, 02:02:23 PM
Good to see the Aussies hammered in India, all out for 91 in the second innings to lose by and innings and 132 runs.
Didn’t see that coming!
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2023, 08:03:57 AM
Post by: simboy on February 12, 2023, 09:14:43 AM
Yeah quite funny although I assume the pitch was a shambles.
India got 400 against a good Aussie attack and having first bowled the opposition out for 170. I say more the Aussies didn’t bat well with some selection issues, Warner Khawaja misfired, no Green or Head.
Post by: Villa Lew on February 13, 2023, 11:06:16 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 16, 2023, 06:58:51 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 16, 2023, 08:18:10 AM
I don’t think I can recall when a side has declared on day one of a test match. I understand why they have done it and hope it works out!
Already got them 3 down. This team is wonderful
Post by: Villan For Life on February 16, 2023, 09:26:51 AM
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2023, 10:16:06 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 16, 2023, 10:28:17 AM
Day/Night tests are weird. I find it hard to see why you'd want to introduce something which makes the conditions both teams face so very different.
I don't think the players are big fans of it either. I suppose the idea is you can get more people tuning in to watch after work, but it's not a true sporting contest if the result hinges on what time of day you have to bat.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 16, 2023, 11:40:56 AM
Day/Night tests are weird. I find it hard to see why you'd want to introduce something which makes the conditions both teams face so very different.
I don't think the players are big fans of it either. I suppose the idea is you can get more people tuning in to watch after work, but it's not a true sporting contest if the result hinges on what time of day you have to bat.
In theory that's no different to being put into bat on a cloudy morning when the ball is swinging around corners, then the sun breaks through and batting becomes easier.
Day/Night tests are a permanent fixture in Australia where the Adelaide test is always a day night affair. The experiment didn't really work here though.
Post by: Risso on February 16, 2023, 11:54:21 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 17, 2023, 07:07:20 AM
It will be a challenging 90 minutes or so for England, I think this could be the defining session of the test.
Post by: manic-road on February 17, 2023, 08:26:25 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 17, 2023, 08:37:53 AM
Surprised Broad was sent out as a night watchman, he tends to give his wicket away quite cheaply.
He was dropped at the start of his innings, a very poor drop, but he was there at the end.
He’s a frustrating batsman, he has the talent but his confidence is shot after he took one in the face whilst hooking. Still he did his job today.
Post by: olaftab on February 17, 2023, 09:50:58 AM
Post by: Bully2345 on February 17, 2023, 09:57:27 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 17, 2023, 10:07:38 AM
Broad isn't a nightwatchman. He's the mystical nighthawk who goes out to play shots at the end of the day, although he did employ some standard time wasting tactics to get them to close of play.
That fits with the “Bazball” approach though. What this team will achieve will be interesting to see, they are certainly rewriting the test match handbook.
Post by: paul_e on February 17, 2023, 10:21:16 AM
The reason he gets the nod over Jimmy though is that we don't want the run rate to drop too heavily. The whole point of how we play now is to apply scoreboard pressure by going at 5-6 an over so we force teams to always be trying to take wickets because if they drop off we just stack runs quickly.
Broad isn't a great batsman anymore (for reasons VfL covered) but this is a guy who has scored 13 50s at international level so he's definitely capable of hanging around for 10-12 overs and scoring at a decent lick when there's not really any pressure on him losing his wicket.
Post by: LeeB on February 17, 2023, 10:27:29 AM
Broad has done half of the job. Part 2 is to survive 6-7 overs in the morning.
The reason he gets the nod over Jimmy though is that we don't want the run rate to drop too heavily. The whole point of how we play now is to apply scoreboard pressure by going at 5-6 an over so we force teams to always be trying to take wickets because if they drop off we just stack runs quickly.
Broad isn't a great batsman anymore (for reasons VfL covered) but this is a guy who has scored 13 50s at international level so he's definitely capable of hanging around for 10-12 overs and scoring at a decent lick when there's not really any pressure on him losing his wicket.
IIRC he was looking almost like a genuine all rounder early on, then caught a whack and seemed to really struggle after that for a long while
Post by: paul_e on February 17, 2023, 10:56:45 AM
Broad has done half of the job. Part 2 is to survive 6-7 overs in the morning.
The reason he gets the nod over Jimmy though is that we don't want the run rate to drop too heavily. The whole point of how we play now is to apply scoreboard pressure by going at 5-6 an over so we force teams to always be trying to take wickets because if they drop off we just stack runs quickly.
Broad isn't a great batsman anymore (for reasons VfL covered) but this is a guy who has scored 13 50s at international level so he's definitely capable of hanging around for 10-12 overs and scoring at a decent lick when there's not really any pressure on him losing his wicket.
IIRC he was looking almost like a genuine all rounder early on, then caught a whack and seemed to really struggle after that for a long while
Yep, he got done by some short stuff and has been targeted with it ever since. He has been better in the last few years though and he does seem less nervy when he's a bit high in the order.
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2023, 12:47:18 PM
Post by: Richard on February 17, 2023, 06:17:34 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on February 17, 2023, 06:38:49 PM
Add in the impact it has on the opposition. The ball is doing all sorts under lights - beating (and in Duckett's case - finding) the edge regularly. All of a sudden Broad comes in swinging and they go to bouncers with fielders posted everywhere. The scoreboard keeps on moving and they are reduced to pretty much only one kind of dismissal.Broad isn't a nightwatchman. He's the mystical nighthawk who goes out to play shots at the end of the day, although he did employ some standard time wasting tactics to get them to close of play.
That fits with the “Bazball” approach though. What this team will achieve will be interesting to see, they are certainly rewriting the test match handbook.
Post by: paul_e on February 17, 2023, 06:58:05 PM
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.
I'm undecided on him, I've said it many times before but for me the true job of an opener is to see off 15-20 overs as often as possible, if they do that then I don't mind if their average is a bit low, softening the ball up and seeing off the openers and first change without losing wickets puts you in a very strong spot to post a big score with the rest of the top and middle order. Englands problem for years has been 3 and 4 having to go in far too early and it putting us on the back foot.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 18, 2023, 08:17:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 18, 2023, 08:25:42 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 18, 2023, 08:32:59 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 18, 2023, 08:35:19 AM
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.Poor international Test match opener. Even by his own, extraordinarily low standards, that was a legendary 2 innings😳
Post by: simboy on February 18, 2023, 08:44:54 AM
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.Poor international Test match opener. Even by his own, extraordinarily low standards, that was a legendary 2 innings😳
The selectors clearly like him, they hope he will get a big score every now and again to take the game away from the opposition and the seem to believe in his ability.
I’m not sure I agree, but then again they’re about to win 10 out of the last 11 tests so have got most things right. It’ll be interesting to see where Bairstow bats when he comes back.
Post by: manic-road on February 18, 2023, 09:16:33 AM
When Stuart Broad is in “the zone” he really is one of the best in the world.
Outstanding this morning.
Post by: Proposition Joe on February 18, 2023, 09:45:08 AM
When Stuart Broad is in “the zone” he really is one of the best in the world.
What a privilege it's been as an England fan to live through the Broad and Anderson years. To have two alltime greats play together, and for so long.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 18, 2023, 12:13:39 PM
And until the Stokes era, most of the time the tail were tasked with trying to save games after the top order were dismissed cheaply in almost every single test match. A completely different task to trying to add runs on to make a good total a great one, or acting as the foil for somebody trying to get his hundred or whatever.
Yeah in a weird way the attacking approach is actually quite pragmatic - know your strengths and play to them
Post by: JD on February 19, 2023, 04:00:10 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 19, 2023, 07:57:17 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 19, 2023, 09:25:33 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 19, 2023, 09:48:38 AM
Post by: Steve67 on February 19, 2023, 01:29:39 PM
Post by: Villafirst on February 19, 2023, 05:23:23 PM
Post by: Rory on February 20, 2023, 02:18:05 AM
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.
I have no particular opinion on Crawley, but an average of 28 is barely good enough for a number seven, let alone top three.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2023, 01:08:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2023, 08:12:17 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 21, 2023, 08:45:10 PM
Good return to form with the ball today by KSB, while NSB scores 81.
Should beat SA
Post by: paul_e on February 22, 2023, 09:29:33 AM
Bloody hell I didn’t know the detail of the Scott Kuggeleijn until now - in my opinion pretty disgraceful that he’s playing for NZ.
The worst part is that Trent Boult is available but they won't pick him because he won't sign a central contract but the justification for selecting Kuggeleijn is that they haven't got many options. It seems like there's a very easy solution there that doesn't involve calling up someone with that back story.
Post by: Gareth on February 23, 2023, 10:24:56 PM
Fair to describe pitch as green, can barely see a cut strip :-)
Post by: Dave Cooper please on February 23, 2023, 11:31:21 PM
But they also have to bat on it and it won't be so green on the second innings.
Post by: Gareth on February 23, 2023, 11:42:11 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 24, 2023, 12:24:42 AM
Post by: Villafirst on February 24, 2023, 02:46:51 AM
Post by: Rory on February 24, 2023, 02:52:55 AM
Brilliant from Brook and Root. 237/3 at tea. Brrok is in one day mode again, his 4th century in 5 innings.
Yep, doing very well given the wicket looked an absolute bowler's paradise for the first hour.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 24, 2023, 06:29:55 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2023, 07:42:57 AM
Nice for Joe to break his slightly barren run in terms of 100s.
Post by: LeeB on February 24, 2023, 09:48:12 AM
He looks like a bit of a phenom to be honest. He plays scoring shots so effortlessly and in the main without risk.
Nice for Joe to break his slightly barren run in terms of 100s.
Just seen that nobody in test history has more runs from their first 9 innnings
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2023, 09:58:54 AM
He reminds me of Pietersen in that he plays shots that should be risky (and are for other players) but makes them look perfectly safe.
Post by: manic-road on February 24, 2023, 10:31:36 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 24, 2023, 10:47:03 AM
It's a bit of a perfect storm, he's a very good batsman but more importantly he plays in a way that's perfectly suited to how this England team play and came into the team at exactly the right time which meant we were playing to strengths rather than trying to force him into a different game plan.
He reminds me of Pietersen in that he plays shots that should be risky (and are for other players) but makes them look perfectly safe.
Hopefully he's nothing like the bellend Pietersen is.
Post by: Risso on February 24, 2023, 11:22:31 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 24, 2023, 11:25:09 AM
Bloody hell, this England team just keep confounding expectations. From 21/3 to over 300 with no more wickets. 18 months ago that would have been 92 all out.
I checked the score this morning having not followed any of the play and thought we must have played a bit cautious to 'only' have 315-3.
Then I saw that it had rained, lol.
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2023, 02:22:46 PM
Bloody hell, this England team just keep confounding expectations. From 21/3 to over 300 with no more wickets. 18 months ago that would have been 92 all out.
I checked the score this morning having not followed any of the play and thought we must have played a bit cautious to 'only' have 315-3.
Then I saw that it had rained, lol.
I did the same, thought the green top might have helped them and then noticed it was from 65 overs.
Hopefully he's nothing like the bellend Pietersen is.
I just meant in terms of making the game look very easy. I get KP was (and is) a bit of a twat but he was also supremely talented and stood out in what was a very good batting line-up. Brook has that same aura.
Post by: LeeB on February 24, 2023, 02:37:21 PM
That scorecard today though really took me back to the Ashes in the 90's, making a decent start against the Ausies then watching the afternoon and evening sessions drift by in an avalanche of runs for them after Steve Waugh gets himself in. Except it's us doing it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2023, 05:12:00 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 24, 2023, 06:26:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2023, 10:16:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2023, 10:26:35 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 24, 2023, 10:46:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 24, 2023, 11:29:29 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 24, 2023, 11:33:49 PM
Post by: Rory on February 25, 2023, 12:04:28 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2023, 12:30:00 AM
Post by: Rory on February 25, 2023, 12:58:21 AM
Watch Anderson get injured now and miss the Ashes.😂
Well if that does happen, you'd better not blame me!
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2023, 01:16:09 AM
Post by: Rory on February 25, 2023, 01:34:03 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2023, 02:09:29 PM
Post by: Rory on February 25, 2023, 05:00:30 PM
I am unforgiving when superstitious errors lead to humiliation by Aussies.
That's perfectly understandable!
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2023, 09:59:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 26, 2023, 12:24:55 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 26, 2023, 01:19:23 PM
Follow on endorsed with 226 lead is quote unique in modern cricket so once again it’s brave cricket from England.
Not coming from hindsight and been proven wrong by Stokes and McCullum many times already, but did find the decision a bit questionable to be honest.
I think it is more the overall situation to be honest. 1-0 up in a 2 game series and a chance to bat the opposition out of the game. Top three hadn’t fired in the first innings, so would have given them a chance to get some time at the middle. Also, given how quickly we score, you would have thought that they would have amassed a big enough score to give them plenty of time to bowl NZ out in the fourth innings.
As good as they are, Anderson and Broad are obviously no spring chickens so it is a tough ask to ask them bowl back to back as well.
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2023, 01:26:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2023, 02:04:24 PM
Follow on endorsed with 226 lead is quote unique in modern cricket so once again it’s brave cricket from England.
Not coming from hindsight and been proven wrong by Stokes and McCullum many times already, but did find the decision a bit questionable to be honest.
I think it is more the overall situation to be honest. 1-0 up in a 2 game series and a chance to bat the opposition out of the game. Top three hadn’t fired in the first innings, so would have given them a chance to get some time at the middle. Also, given how quickly we score, you would have thought that they would have amassed a big enough score to give them plenty of time to bowl NZ out in the fourth innings.
As good as they are, Anderson and Broad are obviously no spring chickens so it is a tough ask to ask them bowl back to back as well.
I suspect this is purely because it's a green pitch. Quite often then become a bit unresponsive on days 4 and 5 so we didn't want to have them batting on that. As Risso says they're still in a very tough situation and it only needs a couple of early wickets tonight to take this away from them. I'd back us to chase anything up to about 250 without much concern and I don't think they have the options to push anything more than that unless we fall apart.
There was a interesting post on facebook by cricinfo earlier pointing out that Southee is now joint 10th for the most 6s in test matches. The bit that matters though is that the top 2 are Stokes and McCullum, which goes a long way to explaining why the team plays like we do.
Post by: Risso on February 26, 2023, 02:12:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 26, 2023, 02:40:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 26, 2023, 10:16:27 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 26, 2023, 10:21:17 PM
Follow on was correct decision as Basin Reserve turns into Rawalpindi mat pitch after the first two days. So batting on to get a lead of 500 would have removed the immediate pressure on NZ and ensured an almost certain draw.
Which considering we are 1-0 up in a 2 match series, would have been fine. I know they are going to try and win every game they play in and that is commendable and the results have been pretty remarkable so far, but I can see it biting them at times.
Post by: olaftab on February 26, 2023, 11:08:59 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 26, 2023, 11:13:31 PM
You are right in terms of purely results. I will be annoyed if in the summer England were one up and in the 5th Ashes test Stokes makes a similar decision.Follow on was correct decision as Basin Reserve turns into Rawalpindi mat pitch after the first two days. So batting on to get a lead of 500 would have removed the immediate pressure on NZ and ensured an almost certain draw.
Which considering we are 1-0 up in a 2 match series, would have been fine. I know they are going to try and win every game they play in and that is commendable and the results have been pretty remarkable so far, but I can see it biting them at times.
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2023, 02:53:27 AM
Post by: Villafirst on February 27, 2023, 04:44:49 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on February 27, 2023, 06:56:45 AM
The way he's protecting his left knee I can't see him playing 6 tests in 8 weeks.You are right in terms of purely results. I will be annoyed if in the summer England were one up and in the 5th Ashes test Stokes makes a similar decision.Follow on was correct decision as Basin Reserve turns into Rawalpindi mat pitch after the first two days. So batting on to get a lead of 500 would have removed the immediate pressure on NZ and ensured an almost certain draw.
Which considering we are 1-0 up in a 2 match series, would have been fine. I know they are going to try and win every game they play in and that is commendable and the results have been pretty remarkable so far, but I can see it biting them at times.
Post by: manic-road on February 27, 2023, 08:59:18 AM
It’s been a great inning's by Williamson so far and he’s taking the game away from England.
And dismissed by Harry Brooks who got his first test wicket, England should win unless gremlins appear in the pitch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2023, 11:45:16 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 27, 2023, 12:00:15 PM
Great Test match and either team could win on final day. England should win, but NZ definitely have hope.
I bet they knock off those 200 runs in about 20 overs for one wicket
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2023, 02:46:59 PM
The way he's protecting his left knee I can't see him playing 6 tests in 8 weeks.Stokes being unfit for Ashes terrifies me. He must now rest till end of May.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2023, 09:49:08 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2023, 10:17:51 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2023, 10:19:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 27, 2023, 10:22:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 27, 2023, 10:24:30 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 27, 2023, 10:28:15 PM
Post by: Gareth on February 28, 2023, 12:21:59 AM
Knock ‘em off 10 at a time…could do without seeing Broad, Leach or Jimmy with the bat
Post by: Villan For Life on February 28, 2023, 03:11:16 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 28, 2023, 03:16:09 AM
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 28, 2023, 05:30:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 28, 2023, 06:19:12 AM
Post by: Monty on February 28, 2023, 07:09:57 AM
Post by: JD on February 28, 2023, 07:27:36 AM
Post by: Rory on February 28, 2023, 07:48:43 AM
Mental, totally mental. This English team is the best thing to happen to Test cricket in years.
Absolutely agreed, Monty.
Post by: olaftab on February 28, 2023, 09:32:33 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 28, 2023, 09:33:22 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 28, 2023, 09:34:59 AM
Seconded. They are doing exactly the stuff I always thought teams should do in a Test match.Mental, totally mental. This English team is the best thing to happen to Test cricket in years.
Absolutely agreed, Monty.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 28, 2023, 11:20:02 AM
A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.
Losing a test and drawing a series is better than winning it? Not sure I follow that to be honest. Just seemed like an unnecessary risk at the time, though NZ did bat very well in their second innings.
Wouldn't have minded at all if it had been a dead rubber game, but the series was still live. It didn't even have to be a boring draw either, given that England score so quickly and could have set the Kiwis a target they could have had a go at.
It just seems to me that we are almost trying too hard to be different and unconvential in almost every game, but it has worked wonders so far I suppose. This just seemed like another example of that and it has cost a series win.
They have been excellent over the summer and winter though and maybe this will not be a bad thing in the long run if a couple of lessons are learnt. There will be a real anticipation going into the Ashes now though.
Post by: olaftab on February 28, 2023, 11:35:47 AM
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 28, 2023, 11:47:37 AM
Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Sorry, don't get that at all. We were in control and had a very good chance of winning in the position we were in. NZ would have had to go for any total batting last as they were 1-0 down in the series. So basically we have squandered a match and series winning position.
That said, the Kiwis deserve massive credit for their 2nd innings batting performance, as I'm sure we had banked on rolling them out for a lot less.
Surely sport is about winning things and being successful? Unless you are Blues or Newcastle of course and you measure success by how many people you take to Bruges / Trafalgar Square.
Post by: Risso on February 28, 2023, 12:13:33 PM
Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Sorry, don't get that at all. We were in control and had a very good chance of winning in the position we were in. NZ would have had to go for any total batting last as they were 1-0 down in the series. So basically we have squandered a match and series winning position.
That said, the Kiwis deserve massive credit for their 2nd innings batting performance, as I'm sure we had banked on rolling them out for a lot less.
Surely sport is about winning things and being successful? Unless you are Blues or Newcastle of course and you measure success by how many people you take to Bruges / Trafalgar Square.
Overall this new approach is proving highly successful, but that's not to say they'll win every game doing it. They'll just win far more than they lose, and all of the games will be exciting. Let's also not lose sight of the fact that New Zealand played very well and England didn't throw the game away by any stretch.
Post by: paul_e on February 28, 2023, 01:00:54 PM
A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.
Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Sorry Tom but whilst I get your point about us being control and going to to lose I still think both of these posts are correct. For the long term health of the format this match is huge and if the 'cost' is us drawing a 2 match series (the bigger problem is the lack of a 3 match to decide a winner) then it's one well worth paying for the long-term health of the game. This game could easily be the turning point for a format that has been on its knees for years.
I want tests that can go either way with spells of brilliance being decisive and if that means being braver (or reckless is you prefer) with key decisions then so be it. The games that people remember are ones like this or that Ashes game with a similar outcome, If we'd not enforced the follow on and set them a ~450 target the last day or so would've been all about defensive attrition and them holding on for a draw, by going this way we removed that option and it made for a genuine classic. Yes it might have made us more likely to win but it would've been a much duller experience.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 28, 2023, 02:06:46 PM
A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Sorry Tom but whilst I get your point about us being control and going to to lose I still think both of these posts are correct. For the long term health of the format this match is huge and if the 'cost' is us drawing a 2 match series (the bigger problem is the lack of a 3 match to decide a winner) then it's one well worth paying for the long-term health of the game. This game could easily be the turning point for a format that has been on its knees for years.
I want tests that can go either way with spells of brilliance being decisive and if that means being braver (or reckless is you prefer) with key decisions then so be it. The games that people remember are ones like this or that Ashes game with a similar outcome, If we'd not enforced the follow on and set them a ~450 target the last day or so would've been all about defensive attrition and them holding on for a draw, by going this way we removed that option and it made for a genuine classic. Yes it might have made us more likely to win but it would've been a much duller experience.
Agree in general Paul, but not just in this specific circumstance. They would have had to chase any total set as they were 1-0 down in the series. If we wanted to make a game of it, we were in a position where we had time to set a total that would have given them something to chase, but would have pretty much safeguarded the series win for us. As it was, New Zealand batted very well (especially Kane Williamson) and we went from being in a potentially dominant position to losing the game and not winning the series.
I'm all for the approach we have shown over the last 10 months and it has yielded some spectacular results, but feel that if we are to get back to being the number 1 test team in the world (which has been the stated aim) we might have to temper it a bit at times.
Post by: Chris Smith on February 28, 2023, 02:17:58 PM
As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.
Post by: paul_e on February 28, 2023, 02:28:34 PM
I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.
As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.
Yep, that run out is what turned the game for me. Losing brook without him facing a ball when he's the form middle order batsmen in the world was a massive blow. 15-20 runs of that pair in the middle and England win the game comfortably, that's why I can't get too annoyed at us losing this one. We should've won, we all know that, but I just can't get too annoyed at losing a match that ended like that because Whilst I'm absolutely an England fan I'm also a Test cricket fan and the sport needs matches like this one.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 28, 2023, 02:55:03 PM
I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.
As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.
Don't want to keep going over it Chris, but we should have been in a position where Harry Brook getting run out didn't matter. I think we probably misjudged New Zealand's batting line up and thought we would roll them out for either an innings win or would leave us needing a very small winning total.
Didn't work out that way and NZ deserve the credit for getting that score in their 2nd innings.
Post by: LeeB on February 28, 2023, 06:40:27 PM
Post by: Risso on February 28, 2023, 06:42:35 PM
Post by: Beard82 on February 28, 2023, 07:13:57 PM
Another amazing test match - bloody love test cricket - even worth putting up with talk sport for
I think its probably a helpful reminder to everyone that there mortal. If anything I think it helps the prep for the ashes as confidence and belief in the squad will still be through the roof.
Cant wait for the ashes!
Post by: olaftab on February 28, 2023, 09:28:04 PM
This time last year we were getting hammered by what was effectively the WI B team whilst scoring about 2 an over, don't lose sleep over losing a game by 1 runYes miserable cautious cricket and I had the painful pleasure of being there for all 3. 15 days of mind numbing boredom. Good job those islands have one or two other things to keep you sane.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 01, 2023, 12:32:21 AM
I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.
As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.
Yep, that run out is what turned the game for me. Losing brook without him facing a ball when he's the form middle order batsmen in the world was a massive blow. 15-20 runs of that pair in the middle and England win the game comfortably, that's why I can't get too annoyed at us losing this one. We should've won, we all know that, but I just can't get too annoyed at losing a match that ended like that because Whilst I'm absolutely an England fan I'm also a Test cricket fan and the sport needs matches like this one.
I disagree. Root and Stokes put on a 117 run partnership and were absolutely cruising to victory. They were both a bit silly to fall into Wagners short ball trap.
I do absolutely love the approach of the team over the last year though
Post by: Lsvilla on March 01, 2023, 02:05:25 AM
This. And I can assure you being there for these two tests has been infinitely more enjoyable despite the result yesterday. This winter I've seen us win the T20 series in Pakistan and the World T20 in Oz followed by this so a pretty good return. A few days in Marlborough Sounds and then to get back to help Unai and the push for Europe.This time last year we were getting hammered by what was effectively the WI B team whilst scoring about 2 an over, don't lose sleep over losing a game by 1 runYes miserable cautious cricket and I had the painful pleasure of being there for all 3. 15 days of mind numbing boredom. Good job those islands have one or two other things to keep you sane.
Post by: JD on March 01, 2023, 08:14:24 AM
Post by: manic-road on March 01, 2023, 11:16:29 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 01, 2023, 12:08:55 PM
Bangladesh have decent recent home form, not looking an easy chase for England to get 210 runs.
It's all about getting a solid partnership. Malan and Jacks started stabilising things but now the latter has gone we really need Moeen to step up and ensure he stays there for a while.
Post by: paul_e on March 01, 2023, 01:58:45 PM
I only watched a little bit but that looked like a horrible sticky wicket so there's no surprise it was a very low scoring match, the ball that got Woakes in particular just seemed to stay in the pitch for an extra fraction of a second.
Post by: manic-road on March 01, 2023, 04:40:41 PM
And breathe, very good performance from Malan and brilliantly support by Rashid at the end.
I only watched a little bit but that looked like a horrible sticky wicket so there's no surprise it was a very low scoring match, the ball that got Woakes in particular just seemed to stay in the pitch for an extra fraction of a second.
And breathe, very good performance from Malan and brilliantly support by Rashid at the end.
I only watched a little bit but that looked like a horrible sticky wicket so there's no surprise it was a very low scoring match, the ball that got Woakes in particular just seemed to stay in the pitch for an extra fraction of a second.
Yes brilliant knock from Malan supported by Rashid, the pitch offered all the bowlers something. The average score on that pitch is 217.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 01, 2023, 08:26:06 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 02, 2023, 09:34:00 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2023, 11:10:02 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on March 02, 2023, 09:44:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 03, 2023, 12:11:44 PM
Important knocks from Roy, Buttler and Moeen (and a nice little cameo from Curran at the end) saw us make 326/7 and we have them at 107/4 after 24.
Post by: paul_e on March 03, 2023, 01:44:59 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 03, 2023, 03:43:46 PM
Unsurprisingly they didn't even get close, all out for 194 with a little over 5 overs to spare and they never looked like getting within 100 of our total.
We've struggled a bit in 50 over cricket in the last year, so good to get a couple of wins under the belt building towards the World Cup later in the year.
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 04, 2023, 01:36:12 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2023, 11:36:34 AM
Curran is some player, isn't he?
Yes, he's developed into a very good T20 and ODI all-rounder, he now regularly contributes with bat and ball (and he's a good fielder as well). I'm glad we've moved on from him at test level though, he rarely looked dangerous in that format and was being picked for his batting really.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 04, 2023, 06:02:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2023, 11:12:58 PM
I wouldn’t write him off as a Test player. He absolutely has the tools to play a role in that side, particularly as his batting kicks on. He’s getting more and more skilled as a bowler.
He definitely has the ability but his natural instincts are to bowl variations to force the play and that just isn't as effective when teams aren't bothered if they go an over or 2 without scoring. He may be a big beneficiary of the new England approach though because if everyone else plays more aggressive cricket then his eagerness might become a strength.
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 06, 2023, 02:10:28 AM
The problem than is we'd knacker him out in the three formats!
(Not counting the 16.4)
Post by: manic-road on March 12, 2023, 12:10:54 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 14, 2023, 01:24:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 14, 2023, 02:45:20 PM
Another collapse from England, cruising at 100-2 and folded again.
Slightly different this time because the main problem was injuries in the squad. Sam Curran batting at 6 because we only had 4 outright batsmen fit (and Moeen as a true allrounder) meant a collapse was almost inevitable, especially when we lost Salt first ball.
Post by: Villa Lew on March 26, 2023, 09:40:47 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on March 26, 2023, 09:45:51 PM
South Africa beat the West Indies getting the highest ever successful T20 International run chase, scoring 259 wth 7 balls to spare.
Imagine scoring 258 in your 20 overs and still losing!
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 01, 2023, 10:56:39 PM
Post by: Rory on April 01, 2023, 11:09:43 PM
Mark Wood took 5 for 14 in the IPL today, best ever figures by an Englishman in that tournament apparently.
Who's he playing for this year?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on April 01, 2023, 11:13:09 PM
Lucknow Super Giants.Mark Wood took 5 for 14 in the IPL today, best ever figures by an Englishman in that tournament apparently.
Who's he playing for this year?
Post by: Villan For Life on May 16, 2023, 10:09:30 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/65608618
Thanks Jofra, it was good while it lasted!
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 16, 2023, 10:20:23 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 16, 2023, 10:22:02 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 16, 2023, 10:35:22 AM
Post by: paul_e on May 16, 2023, 11:11:50 AM
Maybe I have an old school approach but I really think that you should play your best keeper in every test, but that's not Bazzball is it?
Right now I reckon Burgess is in with a shout of being the best English keeper, he's been immense so far this summer.
Post by: Villa Lew on May 16, 2023, 12:04:33 PM
Feel really sorry for Archer.
Yeah gotta feel for the bloke.
Post by: olaftab on May 16, 2023, 12:13:02 PM
Feel really sorry for Archer.Yes, and it looks like the end. I hope he has another career option he can turn to now.
Post by: simon ward 50 on May 16, 2023, 01:25:57 PM
Maybe I have an old school approach but I really think that you should play your best keeper in every test, but that's not Bazzball is it?
Jack Russell says the same in today's I paper.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 16, 2023, 01:52:41 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on May 17, 2023, 06:33:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 20, 2023, 10:14:11 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 21, 2023, 07:52:35 AM
Really hope Robinson’s ankle scan doesn’t indicate anything serious. He’s arguably our most important bowler this summer.
The injuries in the bowling attack are mounting up; Jimmy, Archer, Robinson, Stone and who knows if Stokes will bowl a ball in anger again? It’s concerning with the Ashes just a month away. I hope that they have Mark Wood on light duties at Durham!
Post by: PGW on May 24, 2023, 11:34:14 AM
Post by: Monty on May 24, 2023, 11:46:18 AM
Pear young seamer Josh Tongue been called up for Ireland test.
Hope he gives them a good licking.
Post by: dave shelley on May 24, 2023, 12:31:03 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 30, 2023, 06:40:47 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on May 30, 2023, 07:02:10 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on May 30, 2023, 11:34:16 PM
Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Post by: Richard on May 31, 2023, 09:38:26 AM
Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Nor an England shirt is my concern. Hope he doesn't become a permanent 12th man as that's a waste of his season.
Post by: olaftab on May 31, 2023, 09:42:00 AM
He'll lap it up.Good luck to the lad but I hope he doesn't give us a good licking.
Post by: olaftab on May 31, 2023, 09:44:23 AM
Honestly if they are not going to include him in the XI he should be released. At this stage in his career he needs to play cricket rather than be 12th man. 12th man should be up and coming youngster who's just missed out on selection.Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Nor an England shirt is my concern. Hope he doesn't become a permanent 12th man as that's a waste of his season.
Post by: Villan For Life on May 31, 2023, 07:19:51 PM
Honestly if they are not going to include him in the XI he should be released. At this stage in his career he needs to play cricket rather than be 12th man. 12th man should be up and coming youngster who's just missed out on selection.Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Nor an England shirt is my concern. Hope he doesn't become a permanent 12th man as that's a waste of his season.
I imagine that they’re resting Woakes to preserve his fitness for the Ashes in case Jimmy or Robinson aren’t fit. They also get to see how Tongue gets on in test cricket. He has the ability to be a surprise package against the Aussies, he’s pretty quick.
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 31, 2023, 08:42:58 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on May 31, 2023, 11:52:40 PM
Pear young seamer Josh Tongue been called up for Ireland test.
Hope he gives them a good licking.
It would be the lick of the Irish.
Post by: Gareth on June 01, 2023, 08:22:27 AM
Honestly if they are not going to include him in the XI he should be released. At this stage in his career he needs to play cricket rather than be 12th man. 12th man should be up and coming youngster who's just missed out on selection.Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Nor an England shirt is my concern. Hope he doesn't become a permanent 12th man as that's a waste of his season.
I imagine that they’re resting Woakes to preserve his fitness for the Ashes in case Jimmy or Robinson aren’t fit. They also get to see how Tongue gets on in test cricket. He has the ability to be a surprise package against the Aussies, he’s pretty quick.
Agree, think Tongue is getting his chance as an extra alternative for Robinson, going to be a pretty intense Ashes series and Robinson might not be robust enough to play every test at 100%
Post by: Dr Butler on June 01, 2023, 12:07:25 PM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Bully2345 on June 01, 2023, 12:23:12 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on June 01, 2023, 12:35:05 PM
Michael McNamee I believe
cheers Bully2345
UTV
The Doc
Post by: Gareth on June 01, 2023, 06:02:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2023, 07:56:55 PM
Post by: Rory on June 02, 2023, 07:57:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 02, 2023, 07:59:46 PM
Post by: Rory on June 02, 2023, 08:02:00 PM
I sympathise they’ve had Test status since 2017 and this is what their 5th or 6th Test? Ridiculous.
Still, a Test at Lord's should be motivation in itself. We'd still have won, but it does take a bit from the game when one side can't be arsed.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2023, 01:51:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 03, 2023, 02:31:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 03, 2023, 02:54:14 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 03, 2023, 03:17:38 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 04, 2023, 08:24:41 AM
The lack of a test quality spinner is the obvious weak link in the team
Stokes rates Leach and trusts him to tie down one end thus allowing him to rotate the seamers at the other end. I heard on TMS yesterday that since the start of the McCullum/Stokes era Leach has bowled a thousand balls more than any other bowler, that’s an awful lot of overs.
Post by: dubont on June 04, 2023, 05:12:02 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 04, 2023, 05:38:08 PM
Leach is out of the Ashes with a stress fracture of the back.
This is bad. He might not be that potent but still our best spinner. With all the injury worries with the quick bowlers too this could get grim.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2023, 06:59:47 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 04, 2023, 07:34:35 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 04, 2023, 08:00:50 PM
Mooen Ali perhaps back in with a shout now?
With Stokes in charge you know it will be asked…really want him to get those 11 wickets for 200
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2023, 08:08:25 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 04, 2023, 08:56:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 04, 2023, 09:05:35 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 04, 2023, 10:18:41 PM
I’m not sure he’s a better Test spinner than either, and if Stokes struggles to bowl he’s not going to hold an end.
I think that is key to this. They need someone reliable. The young lad, Reman Ahmed, who took the 5-for in Pakistan is a bit raw. Moeen seems to be the better candidate, especially as he's a good fielder, has a cricket brain and can bat well.
Post by: Gareth on June 04, 2023, 11:06:41 PM
I’m not sure he’s a better Test spinner than either, and if Stokes struggles to bowl he’s not going to hold an end.
I think that is key to this. They need someone reliable. The young lad, Reman Ahmed, who took the 5-for in Pakistan is a bit raw. Moeen seems to be the better candidate, especially as he's a good fielder, has a cricket brain and can bat well.
And won’t be destroyed if it goes wrong…Aussies will go hell for leather after Ahmed if he is picked & he is still learning
Post by: olaftab on June 06, 2023, 04:01:05 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 06, 2023, 04:14:43 PM
Not picking Rehan Ahmed will be a cautious approach inline with previous England policy that has seen only two 18 year olds make their test debuts in the list of 100 youngest test cricketers. (those being this lad and someone called DB Close). This is not Bazball approach. Just pick him and let him have a go, let Aussies worry about him.
I agree, he looks like he has the tools and attitude to make it so lets focus on giving him the best chance to succeed. With our first choice out and the alternatives seemingly guys at the other end of their careers I don't see having him in the squad at the very least as being all that risky.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 06, 2023, 04:29:03 PM
Ahmed has played just ten first class matches plus one test match. Taking a 5-fer on a Karachi dust bowl is one thing, bowling against four of the current ICC ranked top 10 batsmen on an English green top in the heat of an Ashes series is quite another. They will look to target him and go about their usual mental disintegration tactics.
We could ruin the career of a good young prospect, come on Moeen your services are needed once again!
Post by: Villan For Life on June 07, 2023, 08:43:42 AM
I'd not risk Rehan Ahmed and I hope Moeen Ali changes his mind about playing red ball cricket.
Ahmed has played just ten first class matches plus one test match. Taking a 5-fer on a Karachi dust bowl is one thing, bowling against four of the current ICC ranked top 10 batsmen on an English green top in the heat of an Ashes series is quite another. They will look to target him and go about their usual mental disintegration tactics.
We could ruin the career of a good young prospect, come on Moeen your services are needed once again!
Moeen is back
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/65831002
Post by: olaftab on June 07, 2023, 08:57:23 AM
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 07, 2023, 10:00:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2023, 10:20:36 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 07, 2023, 10:33:23 AM
Not sure how I would think if I was one of the other spinners though as it doesn't really show a lot of faith in them.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 07, 2023, 01:03:37 PM
Given Leach's health/injury problems, needing another spinner was always a possibility.
Moeen will have to play now. It would be a bit off to persuade him back and they just go with Root as the spinner.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 07, 2023, 01:09:23 PM
Pretty poor really that England have had to go begging Moeen to play.
Given Leach's health/injury problems, needing another spinner was always a possibility.
Moeen will have to play now. It would be a bit off to persuade him back and they just go with Root as the spinner.
We don't have a credible alternative spinner to select and at least Moeen is still playing.
Red ball domestic cricket has been marginalized and pushed to the beginning/end of the season to allow for the Blast and the Hundred. How are we ever going to produce a top class spinner on a freezing cold morning in April or in late September when the pitches are dead?
Post by: Gareth on June 07, 2023, 02:13:25 PM
Pretty poor really that England have had to go begging Moeen to play.
Given Leach's health/injury problems, needing another spinner was always a possibility.
Moeen will have to play now. It would be a bit off to persuade him back and they just go with Root as the spinner.
We don't have a credible alternative spinner to select and at least Moeen is still playing.
Red ball domestic cricket has been marginalized and pushed to the beginning/end of the season to allow for the Blast and the Hundred. How are we ever going to produce a top class spinner on a freezing cold morning in April or in late September when the pitches are dead?
Exactly that! I’m reality given the proper conditions Ahmed would have been ready but he’s probably bowled 20 overs this summer in t20 and a bunch of overs in 3 or 4 degrees dodging rain….Aussies would destroy him. Mo is the best option
Post by: tomd2103 on June 07, 2023, 04:21:13 PM
Think it is going to be a big ask to beat them if their bowling attack stays fit, but it's probably their batting and their 'big three' in Warner, Labuschagne and Smith that are the key.
Post by: olaftab on June 07, 2023, 04:38:26 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if England went with four seamers and used Root as the spinner. Risky but any more risky than hoping Moeen can hold up an end anymore?So what was the point in grovelling to Ali to return? And I am is the opinion that it’s the wrong thing.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 07, 2023, 04:46:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 08, 2023, 06:20:15 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 08, 2023, 11:36:49 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 08, 2023, 03:23:14 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on June 09, 2023, 01:33:23 PM
Head played very well, but Smith looks ominous.
Oh dear. Given the injuries to our bowling attack, is this going to be one of those series where we see that twat at the crease for about a solid 12 of the 25 days?
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 09, 2023, 07:04:01 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 09, 2023, 07:19:58 PM
Smith played a crap slog as well having got away with a similar one in the first innings. Won't be easy but they are definitely beatable. Labuschagne the big threat for me but he can be dried up so I don't think he can hurt us in a hurry. Our biggest problem will be posting enough runs against their attack.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 10, 2023, 01:12:00 AM
Based on history 4 seamers does not work. Also it’s very dry at the moment.
Early whispers are that it could be pretty flat at Edgbaston, so Mark Wood could come in for either Broad or Robinson.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 10, 2023, 07:55:32 AM
Based on history 4 seamers does not work. Also it’s very dry at the moment.
Early whispers are that it could be pretty flat at Edgbaston, so Mark Wood could come in for either Broad or Robinson.
I think the most likely to miss out is Jimmy. Robinson in my view is arguably the most important bowler. Broad has the Warner match-up and is also very good against left handlers generally. Jimmy has been carrying a knock, and seems the most likely to miss out for me.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 11, 2023, 12:34:49 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 11, 2023, 01:40:18 PM
Boland has had an incredible start to international cricket, but if he plays I think we should target him. I haven’t seen anyone try to put him under pressure yet. That could be because it’s too hard to do, but I do wonder.
Agree & also Lyon needs to be played correctly, haven’t got to go after him but need to keep the strike rotating when he is on.
Post by: olaftab on June 11, 2023, 05:49:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 11, 2023, 05:55:01 PM
The WC final result was no different from every other early summer Test match India have played in England. They just don’t know how to deal with the conditions. Australia will find that it’s an entirely different ball game on Friday.
I do worry about the difference in preperation the teams have had though. Australia have had a tough and meaningful game against quality opposition, whereas we had a pretty silly game against Ireland
Post by: olaftab on June 14, 2023, 12:31:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 14, 2023, 03:09:49 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 14, 2023, 05:40:59 PM
Hmmm not sure about not picking Wood for Edgbaston. We better hope it moves a bit.
Yup, me too. I hope we aren't getting too sentimental about Jimmy. Brilliant though he is.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 14, 2023, 11:59:55 PM
Hmmm not sure about not picking Wood for Edgbaston. We better hope it moves a bit.
Yup, me too. I hope we aren't getting too sentimental about Jimmy. Brilliant though he is.
There will be faster pitches than Edgbaston in this series where Wood will be selected. Edgbaston tends to swing so the attack of Jimmy, Broad, Robinson and Stokes should perform well. That does mean that Moeen needs to perform well though and if he does then Stokes has the option of rotating the quicks at the other end.
I expect Jimmy and Broad will be rested through the series and Wood and possibly Josh Tongue will be selected.
Post by: aev on June 15, 2023, 12:37:57 PM
Post by: Nev on June 15, 2023, 07:27:40 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 15, 2023, 08:27:31 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 15, 2023, 09:11:46 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 15, 2023, 09:32:58 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 16, 2023, 12:57:03 AM
Think this first test could be crucial really, especially for England, as I think if we can continue the momentum we have had then confidence will be high going into the rest of the series.
Can't wait fir it to start!
Post by: Rory on June 16, 2023, 03:43:45 AM
3-2 England
Seconded. If it goes our way, it'll be a low-scoring series, with short tests - they'll try to dictate the pace by slowing down the over rate when bowling and establish a steady, attritional run rate when batting.
If the hot weather keeps up, that should balance out the spin departments (theirs being stronger) and neutralise their quality but one-dimensional pace and bounce attack, favouring our more subtle swing & seam variations.
I think they'll start strongly but we'll grow into the series. They're a very good side, but if we can score quickly, starve them of runs and pressure them into trying to score quickly, we can beat them.
C'mon England!
Post by: Villan For Life on June 16, 2023, 06:15:23 AM
2-1 England, providing the bowlers all stay fit.
Post by: OzVilla on June 16, 2023, 06:44:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 07:43:02 AM
Australia look very strong, but it would be interesting to see what happens if they’re put under pressure.
Post by: olaftab on June 16, 2023, 07:52:35 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on June 16, 2023, 08:20:58 AM
Post by: Risso on June 16, 2023, 08:46:11 AM
Starting well is crucial. In such a compressed series coming back from behind is going to be very tricky.
Australia look very strong, but it would be interesting to see what happens if they’re put under pressure.
Agreed, we need to start well and win this one I think.
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 16, 2023, 10:03:51 AM
Starting well is crucial. In such a compressed series coming back from behind is going to be very tricky.
Australia look very strong, but it would be interesting to see what happens if they’re put under pressure.
Agreed, we need to start well and win this one I think.
Yeah no pressure lads, don’t be shit.
Post by: Joshua Fineman on June 16, 2023, 10:31:09 AM
Post by: Nev on June 16, 2023, 10:57:23 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 11:26:32 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on June 16, 2023, 11:32:04 AM
Post by: Chris Smith on June 16, 2023, 11:38:03 AM
Nasser and Athers gushing about Edgbaston.
The camera shot they showed from up high looking out towards Cannon Hill Park made it look as though they were in the middle of the countryside rather than on the edge of Balsall Heath.
Post by: Nev on June 16, 2023, 11:47:40 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 12:28:46 PM
Post by: Risso on June 16, 2023, 12:30:19 PM
Nasser and Athers gushing about Edgbaston.
The camera shot they showed from up high looking out towards Cannon Hill Park made it look as though they were in the middle of the countryside rather than on the edge of Balsall Heath.
Cannon Hill Park is lovely, planted a load of trees in it 30 years ago.
Post by: Risso on June 16, 2023, 01:10:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 01:11:08 PM
124-3
Root 20*
I reckon it's been pretty even so far, england scoring at a good rate and all the batters getting a start but not quite kicking on. Still plenty of batting to come with Brook, Stokes, Bairstow and Ali.
Post by: Risso on June 16, 2023, 01:19:55 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 16, 2023, 02:29:21 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on June 16, 2023, 02:37:24 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 16, 2023, 02:37:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 02:40:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 16, 2023, 03:11:11 PM
How's yer luck you jammy bastards?
There's freak dismissals and then there's whatever the hell this is :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/65929804
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 03:42:54 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on June 16, 2023, 03:46:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 03:51:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 04:14:39 PM
I think 350 is competitive and 400+ would be a big advantage.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 04:43:25 PM
Post by: Rotterdam on June 16, 2023, 04:50:12 PM
What do we think is a decent score here? The pitch looks ok by the ball is keeping low at times which makes cross bat shots dangerous.375 or so?
I think 350 is competitive and 400+ would be a big advantage.
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 04:52:08 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 04:53:04 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 16, 2023, 05:00:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 05:03:40 PM
I feel like we’re frittering this away a bit here.
Post by: Steve67 on June 16, 2023, 05:06:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 05:21:00 PM
I do get the frustration though but I don't think it's fair to criticise Stokes, Bairstow or Moeen for playing in the way that is clearly what works for them and is what they're in the team to do. The only wickets I found frustrating were Duckett (just didn't read the conditions) and Crawley (hung his bat out at one that was high and wide) who both went playing fairly timid shots.
Post by: manic-road on June 16, 2023, 05:28:46 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 16, 2023, 06:04:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 06:04:43 PM
Into the 390s (which i reckon is a decent score) and Stokes clearly agrees with a very bold declaration!
Weather sounds ropey for the last 3 days with coulds and heavy showers predicted so getting the game moving along is probably needed to get a result either way.
Post by: Chris Smith on June 16, 2023, 06:09:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 06:10:26 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 16, 2023, 06:11:44 PM
Tear into them for a few overs tonight.
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 06:11:46 PM
You’ve got to love this approach from England, the positive approach means games are mostly played on our terms.
Yep, Australia were making a big deal about not changing how they play and then put out fields for most of the day that were designed to reduce how many boundaries we'd score.
Post by: Rory on June 16, 2023, 06:13:08 PM
Very bold move. We'll look pretty stupid if the Aussies are still batting at tea on Sunday!
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 16, 2023, 06:17:25 PM
Post by: bilsim on June 16, 2023, 06:20:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 06:24:12 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 16, 2023, 06:26:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 06:32:40 PM
Post by: Rory on June 16, 2023, 06:40:28 PM
Bold move, but with the pitch and weather as they are, I'm not sure nicking a couple of wickets ever looked that likely.
Post by: paul_e on June 16, 2023, 07:14:20 PM
I'd rather have spent the last half an hour adding another 20-30 on our total and not allowing them to chip 15 off our lead.
Bold move, but with the pitch and weather as they are, I'm not sure nicking a couple of wickets ever looked that likely.
I suspect he was hoping the shock factor might unsettle them, guess it was worth a go.
Post by: Rory on June 16, 2023, 07:54:24 PM
I'd rather have spent the last half an hour adding another 20-30 on our total and not allowing them to chip 15 off our lead.
Bold move, but with the pitch and weather as they are, I'm not sure nicking a couple of wickets ever looked that likely.
I suspect he was hoping the shock factor might unsettle them, guess it was worth a go.
Yeah, just seemed a little unnecessary on day one. Great day of cricket, though. Hopefully we'll bowl well tomorrow and really put some pressure on.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 16, 2023, 08:15:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 16, 2023, 11:18:14 PM
The declaration was a bit of a surprise as Root had just moved into top gear and it was also a surprise when Jimmy Anderson didn't open the bowling. Joe Root's hundred was sublime and he just looked on it from the first ball he faced.
All in all a good day at Edgbaston and pleasingly there were very few pissed up idiots (few annoying mouthy Aussies who found their voices at the end) in attendance where I was sat.
Post by: LeeB on June 17, 2023, 09:55:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 10:40:33 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on June 17, 2023, 10:57:14 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2023, 11:18:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 11:24:39 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 17, 2023, 11:34:48 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 17, 2023, 11:38:01 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2023, 12:01:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 12:18:37 PM
Post by: KevinGage on June 17, 2023, 12:54:54 PM
Oh wait a second...
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2023, 12:55:50 PM
Post by: bilsim on June 17, 2023, 12:58:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 01:00:48 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 17, 2023, 01:16:30 PM
All the talk about Smith and Labuschagne batting until Sunday afternoon... Both gone before lunch!
I've been out and about all morning so haven't kept abreast of events quite as well as I might have preferred, but this is indeed fantastic news to greet me upon opening H&V. I might even go and check the actual score now.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on June 17, 2023, 01:20:27 PM
Nice one. Stokesy pins Smith right in the centre.
That doesn't seem a befitting reaction for such an occurrence. We need a cricketing equivalent of the scorchio.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 02:32:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 02:38:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 02:43:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 04:31:32 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2023, 04:35:04 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2023, 04:35:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 04:37:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2023, 05:18:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 05:26:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 05:30:00 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 17, 2023, 05:33:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 05:55:41 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 17, 2023, 06:03:06 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 17, 2023, 06:18:14 PM
I'd rather have spent the last half an hour adding another 20-30 on our total and not allowing them to chip 15 off our lead.
Bold move, but with the pitch and weather as they are, I'm not sure nicking a couple of wickets ever looked that likely.
I suspect he was hoping the shock factor might unsettle them, guess it was worth a go.
Yeah, just seemed a little unnecessary on day one. Great day of cricket, though. Hopefully we'll bowl well tomorrow and really put some pressure on.
Our gung ho approach is very exciting but against the best side in the world and in the Ashes, less likely to work against gnarly feckers. We are bold and brash and I like that against the lesser sides as we put them to the sword, but against the Aussies, we have to be more calculated.
Post by: olaftab on June 17, 2023, 06:18:39 PM
Post by: beness on June 17, 2023, 06:25:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 06:30:38 PM
Post by: beness on June 17, 2023, 06:37:57 PM
Got to be honest, it might be the pitch but Anderson and Robinson have been well below par today. Add in the missed chances and it’s been a pretty sloppy day. Going to need a massive morning to avoid getting significantly behind in the game.
Not sure If they will run away with it but that remains to be seen. Love our agressive approach with a 5+per over run rate. We declared on 8 wickets down and to me that was throwing down the gaunlet to them. I would not want to talk Stokes out of what is doing.
Post by: beness on June 17, 2023, 06:39:54 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 17, 2023, 06:55:06 PM
WICKATIOOOOOOOO
BOWWLLLIOOO'D?
Post by: Rory on June 17, 2023, 07:10:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 17, 2023, 07:14:19 PM
Got to be honest, it might be the pitch but Anderson and Robinson have been well below par today. Add in the missed chances and it’s been a pretty sloppy day. Going to need a massive morning to avoid getting significantly behind in the game.
Not sure If they will run away with it but that remains to be seen. Love our agressive approach with a 5+per over run rate. We declared on 8 wickets down and to me that was throwing down the gaunlet to them. I would not want to talk Stokes out of what is doing.
Well no neither would I - it’s sloppiness that has prevented us being absolutely in the box seat, not the decision to declare. Hopefully the bowlers can be re-energised from a night’s rest and make early breakthroughs.
Post by: Rory on June 17, 2023, 07:34:19 PM
Even if Aus had still finished today 311-5 we'd be saying "well, we have a 140 lead, couple of wickets and we're into the tail".
Instead we're going to have to bowl well to keep the scores roughly level. After winning the toss on a good wicket and choosing to bat, that's not great.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 17, 2023, 09:55:04 PM
England on top first session, but struggled once the cloud cover went and only got one more wicket; from a poor shot by Head.
Kawaja no ball wicket was a real kick in the teeth.
Post by: Villafirst on June 17, 2023, 11:00:13 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 18, 2023, 01:47:12 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 18, 2023, 03:46:43 AM
Root was really in his stride when we declared. We could conceivably have got to 450 by close of play.Yes the declaration was incomprehensible. It was probably appropriate if there was a time issue for example the first days play was totally lost due to rain etc. As it was why do it? Unnecessary bravado. It also denied the demoralising effect of a wagging tail undoing the good work of the fielding team by adding 70 to 100 runs.
Even if Aus had still finished today 311-5 we'd be saying "well, we have a 140 lead, couple of wickets and we're into the tail".
Post by: Rory on June 18, 2023, 04:32:40 AM
Root was really in his stride when we declared. We could conceivably have got to 450 by close of play.Yes the declaration was incomprehensible. It was probably appropriate if there was a time issue for example the first days play was totally lost due to rain etc. As it was why do it? Unnecessary bravado. It also denied the demoralising effect of a wagging tail undoing the good work of the fielding team by adding 70 to 100 runs.
Even if Aus had still finished today 311-5 we'd be saying "well, we have a 140 lead, couple of wickets and we're into the tail".
Completely agreed, Aftab. If we'd lost a day to rain I would've been fully behind it. Instead it felt performative, "look how ballsy we are. 390 is enough."
If the Aussies get near our score, which looks likely, then it was a poor call, and we gave up runs for no reason.
We are still well in the test, of course, and we can still win. But if we were to lose by 1 or 2 wickets, we would've dropped one hell of a bollock by forgoing those runs.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 18, 2023, 07:12:42 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 07:52:35 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 18, 2023, 09:15:23 AM
I think that in the context of the whole series we have sent a very definite message to the Aussies that they are in for a fight. I applaud the decision.Sorry but a better message is to not take the foot off their neck. Root was slaughtering them at about 5.30 on Friday with very good support from Broad and Robinson. A childish school playground decision was made, akin to my dad's bigger than yours.
Anyway off to Edgbaston again today to see if they can recover from the mess served up so far by Stokes and Bairstow. .
Post by: Risso on June 18, 2023, 10:53:12 AM
I think that in the context of the whole series we have sent a very definite message to the Aussies that they are in for a fight. I applaud the decision.Sorry but a better message is to not take the foot off their neck. Root was slaughtering them at about 5.30 on Friday with very good support from Broad and Robinson. A childish school playground decision was made, akin to my dad's bigger than yours.
Anyway off to Edgbaston again today to see if they can recover from the mess served up so far by Stokes and Bairstow. .
I dunno, I don't think you can be a fan of the new regime and then criticise decisions like that, its all part of it. If Broad had got a wicket or two in that last half an hour it would have looked a brilliant decision. I think that was the main reason, not to just for a bit of bravado.
Need a couple of early wickets today, mind.
Post by: Risso on June 18, 2023, 11:04:38 AM
Post by: nigel on June 18, 2023, 11:15:11 AM
Bairstow having an absolute 'mare.
You’d think he’d got money on Australia the way he’s performing in the field.
He’ll probably bang a century next innings
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 18, 2023, 11:21:28 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 18, 2023, 11:21:57 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on June 18, 2023, 11:24:12 AM
Knew that would do it!:D
The curse of the H & V poster! I was starting to get really pissed off about this first innings for England!
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 12:01:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 12:13:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 12:46:38 PM
Mo’s index finger injury is a problem.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 12:48:59 PM
Post by: Richard E on June 18, 2023, 01:01:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 01:04:12 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 18, 2023, 01:07:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 18, 2023, 02:13:00 PM
I reckon scoring off Lyon is the key for us here. If we can have him going at 5-6 an over it creates big pressure on Cummins who will want Lyon to bowl most of the overs from 1 end.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 18, 2023, 02:37:28 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 18, 2023, 03:43:49 PM
Post by: Risso on June 18, 2023, 03:44:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 18, 2023, 03:59:26 PM
Might be viewing it through England tinted spectacles, but I’m not sure Green caught that. Crawley gone now as well.
I think it was a brilliant clean catch from Green. An utterly ludicrous pathetic shot from Duckett to play with the ball moving all over the place though.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 04:03:36 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 18, 2023, 04:16:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 06:01:29 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 18, 2023, 06:03:13 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 18, 2023, 06:06:58 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 18, 2023, 06:15:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 06:17:26 PM
Post by: spangley1812 on June 18, 2023, 06:39:22 PM
Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Post by: Lsvilla on June 18, 2023, 06:50:16 PM
Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Post by: spangley1812 on June 18, 2023, 06:55:05 PM
Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Very wise using E10............. take care
Post by: Lsvilla on June 18, 2023, 07:01:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 18, 2023, 07:44:24 PM
Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Good choice with Browns, particularly if the weather is good and you can sit outside.
I’m there tomorrow and it’s set up for a fascinating days cricket
Post by: Lsvilla on June 18, 2023, 08:04:04 PM
Cheers. Yeah happy with the choice Bills was okay on Friday as a plan B after seeing the queue for GCK but Browns looked better as we walked to the ground.Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Good choice with Browns, particularly if the weather is good and you can sit outside.
I’m there tomorrow and it’s set up for a fascinating days cricket
Was in Wellington for the one run defeat so wouldn't rule out another nipper. Currently clearing plans for Tuesday just in case.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 18, 2023, 08:50:56 PM
Cheers. Yeah happy with the choice Bills was okay on Friday as a plan B after seeing the queue for GCK but Browns looked better as we walked to the ground.Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Good choice with Browns, particularly if the weather is good and you can sit outside.
I’m there tomorrow and it’s set up for a fascinating days cricket
Was in Wellington for the one run defeat so wouldn't rule out another nipper. Currently clearing plans for Tuesday just in case.
Yeah me too. I don’t expect the game to end tomorrow unless there’s a batting collapse
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 18, 2023, 08:58:43 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 18, 2023, 09:18:34 PM
Let’s hope not I think we need at least 275.Nothing surprises me anymore but I think 250 loses and 300 wins. Your 275 could be on the money
Post by: tomd2103 on June 19, 2023, 01:56:57 AM
Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain both pointed out that it is the ball shaping away that Crawley really struggles with.
Post by: Gareth on June 19, 2023, 08:27:14 AM
Crawley and Duckett both got out in almost identical ways in both innings which might not bode well. Duckett had a half-hearted jab at wide balls outside off whereas Crawley nicked off to balls that just fractionally left him.
Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain both pointed out that it is the ball shaping away that Crawley really struggles with.
With Crawley those guys have pointed out exactly the same since early in his test career. Think I read somewhere that Duckett hasn’t left a ball on this test…almost a pinch hit vibe to him.
Unless there is an opener making a real case for selection which there isn’t I don’t think these two are probs best option…unless they want to get foakes back in and push Bairstow up top
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 08:55:29 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 19, 2023, 09:17:58 AM
Weather looks good today and shite tomorrow, expect to see fireworks this morning and us sticking them into bat in an effort to get a result
If another wicket goes (especially if it's Root), I'd hope for a more pragmatic approach of reigning things in, waiting for the rain and it's "on to Cincinnati"
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 09:25:08 AM
Weather looks good today and shite tomorrow, expect to see fireworks this morning and us sticking them into bat in an effort to get a result
If another wicket goes (especially if it's Root), I'd hope for a more pragmatic approach of resigning things in, waiting for the rain and it's "on to Cincinnati"
I would too, but I don't think that kind of thinking is tolerated anymore
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 11:07:35 AM
Post by: manic-road on June 19, 2023, 11:16:12 AM
Have you ever seen a first over of the day like this?
I doubt anybody ever has, this is some start.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 11:17:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 11:33:12 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 11:51:18 AM
Post by: manic-road on June 19, 2023, 12:05:33 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 12:10:37 PM
A brilliant first hours cricket this morning, Brook looks in good touch as well.
Brook looks determined to punish them for ridiculously jammy wicket in the first innings
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 12:17:38 PM
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 12:18:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 12:27:03 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on June 19, 2023, 12:31:47 PM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 12:37:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2023, 12:38:31 PM
how many stumpings is that from Lyon's bowling ? and why do we keep coming down the pitch when we have played him well from back in the crease ?
UTV
The Doc
We're trying to hit him out of the attack. It's a high risk approach but if we can make him an expensive option it means they can't just leave him there for an entire session. Everything about how England play now is designed to put pressure on the opposition captain to do things he didn't plan to. If we just sit in deep they can set back foot fields and he can keep it tight (as he has since Root went) by mixing it up we do add some risk but the potential reward is worth it.
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 12:40:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 12:41:45 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 12:42:00 PM
Pheeeew...5 down would have been bad before lunch.
That was out!
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 12:42:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 12:45:34 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on June 19, 2023, 12:54:02 PM
It was missing anyway I think.
and he hit it according to TMS...
UTV
The Doc
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 01:00:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 01:01:23 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 19, 2023, 01:03:52 PM
how many stumpings is that from Lyon's bowling ? and why do we keep coming down the pitch when we have played him well from back in the crease ?
UTV
The Doc
Zaltz is coming up with various stumping stats.
Most Ashes stumpings in many years
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2023, 01:03:59 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Bairstow bats now. Stokes has come in and been a lot more defensive than we've seen, is he playing the Root role of anchoring the innings so they can flash at the other end or will we reign it in a little?
Post by: UK Redsox on June 19, 2023, 01:05:15 PM
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 01:15:13 PM
Damnit, great catch to be fair.
It'll be interesting to see how Bairstow bats now. Stokes has come in and been a lot more defensive than we've seen, is he playing the Root role of anchoring the innings so they can flash at the other end or will we reign it in a little?
Somebody needs to stick around. 120 on this would leave us in the 270s, and I doubt that will be enough.
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 19, 2023, 01:22:46 PM
Damnit, great catch to be fair.
It'll be interesting to see how Bairstow bats now. Stokes has come in and been a lot more defensive than we've seen, is he playing the Root role of anchoring the innings so they can flash at the other end or will we reign it in a little?
Somebody needs to stick around. 120 on this would leave us in the 270s, and I doubt that will be enough.
Need at least 300 here.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 01:38:39 PM
We need at least 270 here. I don’t think Australia will find it easy to score against our attack. But we need something to defend. Root’s shot was so disappointing given what they had managed to do before it. We let them back in unnecessarily.
Post by: Steve67 on June 19, 2023, 01:39:23 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 02:03:34 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 02:38:04 PM
This match is going to be a classic nail biter. Anything under 250 and Aussies get them easily, 300 plus and it's England's.
Agreed mate
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 02:40:51 PM
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 02:54:26 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 19, 2023, 02:55:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 02:55:41 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 02:56:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 02:57:49 PM
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 03:01:58 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 19, 2023, 03:04:21 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 19, 2023, 03:04:31 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 19, 2023, 03:07:15 PM
There’s still pretty much a day and a half left. Nowhere near enough runs at the minute.
Forecast isn't great tomorrow though. Right now play before lunch looks unlikely. Haven't got a clue what will happen in truth but we're in a tight spot right now.
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 03:08:58 PM
There’s still pretty much a day and a half left. Nowhere near enough runs at the minute.
Forecast isn't great tomorrow though. Right now play before lunch looks unlikely. Haven't got a clue what will happen in truth but we're in a tight spot right now.
(https://i.ibb.co/1XRFxcL/weather.png) (https://ibb.co/1XRFxcL)
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 19, 2023, 03:25:34 PM
There’s still pretty much a day and a half left. Nowhere near enough runs at the minute.
Forecast isn't great tomorrow though. Right now play before lunch looks unlikely. Haven't got a clue what will happen in truth but we're in a tight spot right now.
(https://i.ibb.co/1XRFxcL/weather.png) (https://ibb.co/1XRFxcL)
Basically what he said then, after lunch it's only around 20% but before that we're screwed. Can't we do what China did with the opening ceremony? Surely worth a hundred mil.
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 03:28:31 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 19, 2023, 03:28:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 19, 2023, 03:28:58 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 19, 2023, 03:32:20 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 03:33:43 PM
As much of a fan of the approach that I am, I've got to say this has been a very poor batting display from us in this innings.
Both innings we've managed to get ourselves out after getting in and looking set
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 19, 2023, 03:37:50 PM
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 03:44:54 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 03:49:39 PM
With the weather forecast tomorrow is it worth thinking about the declaration?
In this position I'd take the draw right now, keep them out there as long as possible
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 19, 2023, 03:54:23 PM
With the weather forecast tomorrow is it worth thinking about the declaration?
I wouldn't mind it, let's make it interesting.
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 03:56:01 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 19, 2023, 03:57:16 PM
Only 2 successful runs chases over 250 at Edgbaston.
True, but looking at that statistic, a lot of the chases below that were achieved losing only 1 or 2 wickets, suggesting they would have easily chased 250+ if they had needed to
Post by: dubont on June 19, 2023, 03:57:52 PM
With the weather forecast tomorrow is it worth thinking about the declaration?
I wouldn't mind it, let's make it interesting.
It will be interesting enough, without declaring.
Post by: simboy on June 19, 2023, 04:11:39 PM
Only 2 successful runs chases over 250 at Edgbaston.
True, but looking at that statistic, a lot of the chases below that were achieved losing only 1 or 2 wickets, suggesting they would have easily chased 250+ if they had needed to
it'll be time available as well. England scored 370 odd last year for the loss of 3 or 4
There's plenty of time to get 270+ if you play properly and dont give away silly wickets ...
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 04:21:45 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 19, 2023, 04:27:00 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 19, 2023, 04:28:48 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 19, 2023, 04:30:38 PM
281 I’d have taken that last night and going into the last 2 wickets.
Probably would have as well Paul, but some of those dismissals today were really poor. I know they are embracing this new style and have got excellent results from it so far, but surely they have to consider the game situation at times.
Still, they have set a target of 281 for the Aussies to get. This session after tea should be gripping stuff.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 04:43:19 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 19, 2023, 04:43:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 04:47:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 04:48:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 04:49:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 04:59:16 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 19, 2023, 04:59:46 PM
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 05:05:59 PM
There is absolutely nothing in this pitch for our seamers. I know Stokes asked for roads to be prepared but for the remainder of the series that plan has to be scrapped. We are negating our bowling attack.
Yep not much point if the batsmen don't stick around on them.
Bairstow - is he too, ahem, "big boned" to be an elite wicket keeper?
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 05:12:31 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 19, 2023, 05:12:56 PM
There is absolutely nothing in this pitch for our seamers. I know Stokes asked for roads to be prepared but for the remainder of the series that plan has to be scrapped. We are negating our bowling attack.
Yep not much point if the batsmen don't stick around on them.
Bairstow - is he too, ahem, "big boned" to be an elite wicket keeper?
I do find myself staring at his tits.
Post by: Steve67 on June 19, 2023, 05:22:01 PM
There is absolutely nothing in this pitch for our seamers. I know Stokes asked for roads to be prepared but for the remainder of the series that plan has to be scrapped. We are negating our bowling attack.
Yep not much point if the batsmen don't stick around on them.
Bairstow - is he too, ahem, "big boned" to be an elite wicket keeper?
I do find myself staring at his tits.
I thought it was just me.
Foakes is a much better keeper. Be great to find a place for both of them in the side.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 05:45:45 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 19, 2023, 05:54:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 05:56:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 05:59:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 06:22:45 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 19, 2023, 06:26:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 19, 2023, 06:31:31 PM
The pitch is doing just enough that if we plug away we'll create the chances we need to win this.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 06:43:09 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 19, 2023, 06:43:27 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 19, 2023, 06:48:30 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 19, 2023, 07:01:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 19, 2023, 07:17:56 PM
Post by: Risso on June 19, 2023, 07:33:58 PM
Every time I stop watching we take a wicket, so I'm done. You can thank me later
I was the opposite today, every time I switched on we lost one.
Post by: Nev on June 19, 2023, 08:08:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 19, 2023, 09:19:14 PM
A word of warning to anyone who is going tomorrow, try and get there early. I arrived at 10.30 and got into the ground at 11.20, the queue was huge and the security is very tight.
Weather permitting tomorrow should be a good day of test cricket.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 20, 2023, 12:07:15 AM
Well Broad has given us a chance. Australia’s to lose but if there’s cloud around it might be interesting.
Not sure Paul, think it's very much in the balance. Two quick wickets tomorrow and suddenly 281 starts to look a long way off at 120-5.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 20, 2023, 01:02:22 AM
Well Broad has given us a chance. Australia’s to lose but if there’s cloud around it might be interesting.
Not sure Paul, think it's very much in the balance. Two quick wickets tomorrow and suddenly 281 starts to look a long way off at 120-5.
Yeah, I think it's about as evenly balanced as it could be.
Post by: Rory on June 20, 2023, 02:17:49 AM
It'll be interesting if we lose by 1 or 2 wickets. Sorry to bring it back up, and I know it's not quantifiable, but if Aus get there 8- or 9- wickets down, the only real difference will have been the performative declaration.
Hope we smash them and win by 100 runs, and I love that we play aggressively, but if we lose this test, it'll have been a gift to them.
If we win, I'll be the first one here cheering that I was dead wrong. C'mon England!
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 20, 2023, 06:41:03 AM
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 20, 2023, 07:11:07 AM
Post by: Richard E on June 20, 2023, 07:12:31 AM
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
Post by: Chris Smith on June 20, 2023, 07:14:38 AM
I agree with Paul. Think it's within sight for Australia, unless we bowl very well.
It'll be interesting if we lose by 1 or 2 wickets. Sorry to bring it back up, and I know it's not quantifiable, but if Aus get there 8- or 9- wickets down, the only real difference will have been the performative declaration.
Hope we smash them and win by 100 runs, and I love that we play aggressively, but if we lose this test, it'll have been a gift to them.
If we win, I'll be the first one here cheering that I was dead wrong. C'mon England!
If we lose I’d say it will because of missed chances and no-balls in the first innings.
Post by: simboy on June 20, 2023, 08:05:04 AM
… and if we lose I think it’s the lack of a proper spin option that is the difference
Post by: Chris Smith on June 20, 2023, 08:09:53 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 08:16:58 AM
I’m about 5 miles from Edgbaston, it’s hammering down and has been for a while. Forecast to stop at lunchtime so should be time to get it dried out to enable a result but imagine overcast conditions will suit our bowlers.
I agree Chris, coupled with a fifth day pitch it's in our favour now.
Post by: Nev on June 20, 2023, 08:52:00 AM
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
So did Sky. Boiled gammon incoming.
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2023, 09:27:15 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 09:37:03 AM
It's been absolutely shitting it down all morning, looks like the Midlands as a whole has taken a right soaking.
There's going to be a lot of moisture in the air when play starts
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 09:53:29 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 09:56:16 AM
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 10:09:53 AM
I am of the same opinion. Rain will stop around 11 and normally it takes about an hour to sort out the stuff however England are going to insist on ground conditions being as dry as possible, so the head groundsman is going to ask for or tell umpires about 90 minutes. This being the case you are looking at two full session. Australians can but will not go for a win, so it's England's or a draw.I’m about 5 miles from Edgbaston, it’s hammering down and has been for a while. Forecast to stop at lunchtime so should be time to get it dried out to enable a result but imagine overcast conditions will suit our bowlers.
I agree Chris, coupled with a fifth day pitch it's in our favour now.
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 10:11:42 AM
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2023, 10:19:52 AM
I am of the same opinion. Rain will stop around 11 and normally it takes about an hour to sort out the stuff however England are going to insist on ground conditions being as dry as possible, so the head groundsman is going to ask for or tell umpires about 90 minutes. This being the case you are looking at two full session. Australians can but will not go for a win, so it's England's or a draw.I’m about 5 miles from Edgbaston, it’s hammering down and has been for a while. Forecast to stop at lunchtime so should be time to get it dried out to enable a result but imagine overcast conditions will suit our bowlers.
I agree Chris, coupled with a fifth day pitch it's in our favour now.
On the telly coverage yesterday, one of them basically said "well, at least it's not going to be a draw" or words to that effect, which I thought a bit odd given the weather.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on June 20, 2023, 10:27:45 AM
I've been on the edge of following the test side for a while but this series has revived my interest again.
But I would rather be in England's position when play begins as getting near the total will be an achievement by Australia.
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 10:50:18 AM
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2023, 11:03:49 AM
Lunch will be at 12.30. Likely start at 1.10 post lunch.
Roughly how many overs will that allow?
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 11:06:01 AM
Lunch will be at 12.30. Likely start at 1.10 post lunch.
Roughly how many overs will that allow?
If we've lost a session then around 60? More if the weather is fair and a result is on, and certainly enough to get a result either way
Post by: Chris Smith on June 20, 2023, 11:24:04 AM
Lunch will be at 12.30. Likely start at 1.10 post lunch.
Roughly how many overs will that allow?
If we've lost a session then around 60? More if the weather is fair and a result is on, and certainly enough to get a result either way
The light may play a part, they played until 7:00 last night but that might not be possible today.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 20, 2023, 11:47:20 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 12:17:02 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 12:43:57 PM
Light should be ok given it's midsummer tomorrow
Meant to still be a fair bit of cloud cover later though so it won't be anything like as bright as it was yesterday.
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2023, 01:20:11 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 01:25:19 PM
Still pissing down here.
Stopped here for about half an hour
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 01:30:45 PM
From what I've been told (by a mate at the ground) the outfield is still very wet in places.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 20, 2023, 01:37:48 PM
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
So did Sky. Boiled gammon incoming.
Can't say it bothers me too much, but I just find it strange when it's used when all the players in the game are men. If there were mixed teams or it was a women's game then there would be an obvious need.
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2023, 01:44:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 03:07:09 PM
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
So did Sky. Boiled gammon incoming.
Can't say it bothers me too much, but I just find it strange when it's used when all the players in the game are men. If tgere were mixed teans or it was a women's game then there would be an obvious need.
The simple need is that a lot of commentators/broadcasters/journalists/etc are the same for mens and womens games so having standard terminology so they're always using the correct phrases is just common sense. There's really very little more to it than that.
On the specific example the biggest problem is that nightwatcher is just shit, just change it to nightwatch/nightswatch (I don't care which you choose) and it works better in every way.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 20, 2023, 03:23:37 PM
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
So did Sky. Boiled gammon incoming.
Can't say it bothers me too much, but I just find it strange when it's used when all the players in the game are men. If tgere were mixed teans or it was a women's game then there would be an obvious need.
The simple need is that a lot of commentators/broadcasters/journalists/etc are the same for mens and womens games so having standard terminology so they're always using the correct phrases is just common sense. There's really very little more to it than that.
On the specific example the biggest problem is that nightwatcher is just shit, just change it to nightwatch/nightswatch (I don't care which you choose) and it works better in every way.
Sorry Paul, but that isn't the main reason. As I say, it's not something that bothers me all that much to be honest.
Post by: Risso on June 20, 2023, 03:26:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 20, 2023, 03:31:44 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 03:32:41 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 20, 2023, 03:40:49 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on June 20, 2023, 03:45:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 04:00:13 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 04:03:13 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 20, 2023, 04:11:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 04:12:22 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on June 20, 2023, 04:14:04 PM
UTV
The Doc
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 04:18:29 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 20, 2023, 04:33:18 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 04:42:01 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 04:44:19 PM
Khawaja you talented, boring bastard.It's classic batting v Bazball. So far he has lorded it, but bloody hell he's shit to watch.
Post by: simboy on June 20, 2023, 04:51:09 PM
Very quiet and subdued Edgbaston. Whilst there are notionally 38 overs available after tea it is likely that only 30 will be bowled. last hour starts at 6 when maximum 15 overs must be bowled. The previous 70 minutes England will bowl no more than 15. I don't think 30 overs is enough to get 5 wickets however if wickets do not fall Aussies win it in the last 10.
I don't think that's correct. They can bat on until light is not good enough as there were lost overs on Sunday and today to the weather ... at least thats what TMS was saying earlier - projection is they could play until 7:50
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 04:58:36 PM
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 05:00:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 05:04:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 05:09:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 05:25:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 05:29:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 05:42:40 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on June 20, 2023, 05:45:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 05:55:34 PM
Post by: Rory on June 20, 2023, 05:57:17 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 05:57:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 05:58:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 06:04:51 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 20, 2023, 06:06:32 PM
Post by: Monty on June 20, 2023, 06:09:02 PM
With the new ball to come we've got to be favourites here.
Surely, but these two are no mugs and on their day are well capable of even streaky 30s apiece.
Post by: dubont on June 20, 2023, 06:15:20 PM
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 06:17:28 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 06:17:46 PM
Post by: simboy on June 20, 2023, 06:22:44 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 20, 2023, 06:27:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 06:29:07 PM
One over to many by Root, new ball please.
Yep, the last root over was clever, this is a mistake and not really how I'd expect Stokes to go at it. Broad on now though.
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 06:31:59 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 20, 2023, 06:33:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 06:37:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 06:38:44 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on June 20, 2023, 06:40:25 PM
Not taking new hall 3 overs was a bad mistake
( in my professional cricketer opinion of course 😀)
Post by: SamTheMouse on June 20, 2023, 06:40:26 PM
TAKE NEW EFFING BALL CHAPS
I assume there's some logical reason why they haven't, but I don't understand it.
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 06:41:30 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 06:45:24 PM
New ball taken. I'll be interested to learn why they waited.
The extra over from Root made sense and I can understand why Stokes took another himself but the next Root over was a mistake and ate far too much into the lead.
The shot from Lyon for 4 is why they were nervy though.
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 06:47:59 PM
Yeah, no idea why Root was allowed to bowl again. Still, we'll see. A wicket in the next over, or England's done.New ball taken. I'll be interested to learn why they waited.
The extra over from Root made sense and I can understand why Stokes took another himself but the next Root over was a mistake and ate far too much into the lead.
The shot from Lyon for 4 is why they were nervy though.
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 06:48:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 06:49:06 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on June 20, 2023, 06:49:14 PM
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 06:49:25 PM
Time to switch off. There is no way I can bear Aussies celebrating a Test win at Edgbaston.I'm giving it one more over.
Post by: Monty on June 20, 2023, 06:50:25 PM
Post by: Jane on June 20, 2023, 06:51:41 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on June 20, 2023, 06:52:54 PM
That declaration has cost us.
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 06:54:05 PM
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.I think it's today that's cost us.
That declaration has cost us.
Post by: paul_e on June 20, 2023, 06:54:21 PM
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
Post by: Jane on June 20, 2023, 06:54:24 PM
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 06:55:14 PM
Yes, and that.They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
Post by: Jane on June 20, 2023, 06:58:54 PM
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 07:05:48 PM
But why do it in the first place? It was a comfortable pairing. Ifs and buts I suppose.Chutzpah? Hubris? That first innings really did get in the Aussies' heads, so it didn't seem so bad.
Post by: German James on June 20, 2023, 07:06:00 PM
Post by: nigel on June 20, 2023, 07:12:26 PM
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
Exactly
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 20, 2023, 07:37:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 07:46:18 PM
Must win the next one.
Post by: Ads on June 20, 2023, 07:56:07 PM
Green top next please.
Post by: Rory on June 20, 2023, 07:59:26 PM
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
Exactly
To be fair, we lost by two wickets, having ceded two wickets. It wasn't the only factor but it's pretty stark.
Overall, great test, but a huge missed opportunity, and a massive bonus for Australia.
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 20, 2023, 07:59:58 PM
Post by: simboy on June 20, 2023, 08:01:03 PM
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
Post by: Rory on June 20, 2023, 08:01:15 PM
Is Anderson carrying an injury?
If so, it's a recent one because he said last Tuesday he was 100%
Post by: KevinGage on June 20, 2023, 08:02:06 PM
But against NZ last time out and now Aus England have found a way to lose from a position of strength.
The better sides generally don't do that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 08:04:04 PM
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
That didn’t help, but it’s the missed chances that cost us the game. Also in essentially a 3 seam attack our main spearhead just didn’t perform at all.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 08:11:45 PM
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
Exactly
To be fair, we lost by two wickets, having ceded two wickets. It wasn't the only factor but it's pretty stark.
Overall, great test, but a huge missed opportunity, and a massive bonus for Australia.
It’s a factor but I don’t think it’s material. The main factor was failing to take a number of straightforward chances - that’s what Australia did and we didn’t.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 20, 2023, 08:23:11 PM
Post by: KevinGage on June 20, 2023, 08:36:27 PM
Aussies must be very confident of going 2-0 up @ Lords.
Not sure how they rejig it to make full use of Brook and Bairstow in the batting order, but Foakes needs to come in on JB's showing here.
Post by: simboy on June 20, 2023, 09:02:36 PM
What other options do England have for out and out spinners, with Leach out?
Ahmed took 7 wickets in his first and only test, but not bowling brilliantly for Leicestershire apparently, Carson and Dawson are the other real contenders I think.
English cricket will of course fine a county preparing spinning wickets …
Post by: Villafirst on June 20, 2023, 09:20:03 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on June 20, 2023, 09:35:57 PM
This is also a bit of a bonus win for the Aussies, considering how passive and defensive they were in the field, and considering none of their gun bats made a real impact.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 09:39:13 PM
Questions I’d be asking - Does the bowling attack have enough legs of a flat pitch? And is Bairstow fit enough to keep? It’s understandable after his injury if he’s not, but he shouldn’t be keeping if he’s not.
Post by: TonyD on June 20, 2023, 10:02:51 PM
Post by: TonyD on June 20, 2023, 10:05:26 PM
Post by: TonyD on June 20, 2023, 10:06:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 20, 2023, 10:11:01 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on June 20, 2023, 10:11:10 PM
Post by: shirley_villan on June 20, 2023, 10:15:13 PM
Great match. Hate to say it but think we'll be comfortably beat now.
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 10:45:10 PM
Got over the test loss by booking tickets for all the matches in the Caribbean in December which went on sale tonight.So you going for the one dayers, a total heathen😂 I am only jealous. Where are the matches?
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 10:46:50 PM
The crowd were brilliant.Is that correct?
Post by: olaftab on June 20, 2023, 10:51:54 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 20, 2023, 10:59:13 PM
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
If there was one good enough or performing well enough I’d agree but there isn’t and wasn’t so Mo was the best option. Can’t imagine it was much fun trying to spin it with that injury mind.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 20, 2023, 11:37:49 PM
I think it was important that we got off with a win as it Lord's next and we haven't got a great record there. Think it will be very hard to come back from 2-0 down to even get a draw.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 20, 2023, 11:42:31 PM
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
It's not just that, Lyon bowling long spells from one end means the seamers can rotate from the other one.
I accept that we might not be able to produce a Warne or Murali, but surely to goodness we can produce another Ashley Giles who can just tie up an end and keep things tight while the seamers attack from the other one.
Post by: TonyD on June 21, 2023, 12:24:58 AM
Unfortunately we have lost a test match where ICC 1,2 and 3 failed to make an impact. This will change, they will turn up and we will regret it. It’s not going to be pretty.Yep, non of them got away this test.
But we live in hope.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 21, 2023, 12:36:55 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 21, 2023, 12:44:13 AM
Not sure I agree with all the hype saying what a great Test match. It was decent but never really swung either way. And didn't get the sense of pure rivalry you normally have in the Ashes. Even the bouncers were a bit tame. But Sky love to hype it up. Stokes screwed up and didn't seem bothered about losing because it was a good match. Strange times.
A match decided by two wickets, with all four results possible going into the final day and both teams able to win it in the final session. I'm not sure how you categorise a great Test match but this was certainly up there for me.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 21, 2023, 12:58:47 AM
Not sure I agree with all the hype saying what a great Test match. It was decent but never really swung either way. And didn't get the sense of pure rivalry you normally have in the Ashes. Even the bouncers were a bit tame. But Sky love to hype it up. Stokes screwed up and didn't seem bothered about losing because it was a good match. Strange times.
A match decided by two wickets, with all four results possible going into the final day and both teams able to win it in the final session. I'm not sure how you categorise a great Test match but this was certainly up there for me.
Yep. Just imagine if Stokes keeps hold of that catch. Shiiiit.
Post by: Rory on June 21, 2023, 03:40:31 AM
I suppose if you laud them for the style of play when they are winning, you shouldn't pile in on them when they lose playing that way. I did think they were a bit reckless in New Zealand and it cost them a series win and again I thought they were reckless at times in this game and it has cost them really. It's all good and well prioritising style of play, but this is the Ashes and results mean everything.
I think it was important that we got off with a win as it Lord's next and we haven't got a great record there. Think it will be very hard to come back from 2-0 down to even get a draw.
Agree 100%. I think our aggressive approach is great, but play the situation.
Unless you're on 500+, you don't declare in the first innings of a series. Aggressive vs reckless. Okay, we made a statement... then dropped a shitload of catches, and lost.
The question is, would the Aussies have allowed us to win that test at the Gabba? Would they fuck.
We can get back in this series, but Lord's will be tough. Mo did well and bowled his fingers to the bone. Our worst seamer was Jimmy, but you don't drop Jimmy for Lord's.
I can't see us making changes. He gets in the side on his batting, but the only real question is whether Bairstow is light enough to 'keep. No shame in asking that, because he's returning from a serious injury.
Putting on entertainment is great, but we need to make sure we act when we smell blood, because the Aussies were bleeding throughout, and we let them rack up a win - from nothing.
Post by: OzVilla on June 21, 2023, 05:59:51 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 21, 2023, 06:52:51 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2023, 07:09:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2023, 07:17:43 AM
Post by: TonyD on June 21, 2023, 08:12:54 AM
A great test match has several big swings and twists either way. It was decent but the media are as usual OTT. The close ending was more frustrating than exciting.Not sure I agree with all the hype saying what a great Test match. It was decent but never really swung either way. And didn't get the sense of pure rivalry you normally have in the Ashes. Even the bouncers were a bit tame. But Sky love to hype it up. Stokes screwed up and didn't seem bothered about losing because it was a good match. Strange times.
A match decided by two wickets, with all four results possible going into the final day and both teams able to win it in the final session. I'm not sure how you categorise a great Test match but this was certainly up there for me.
Post by: olaftab on June 21, 2023, 08:14:36 AM
Today is a truly horrible day.Gutted Ozvilla. I did not want them to win like they did and no way at Edgbaston. Stokes has had high praise in the past but he threw this match away.
Post by: OzVilla on June 21, 2023, 10:30:10 AM
Just wished it wasn’t yesterday against them.
Post by: Chris Smith on June 21, 2023, 10:55:48 AM
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
It's not just that, Lyon bowling long spells from one end means the seamers can rotate from the other one.
I accept that we might not be able to produce a Warne or Murali, but surely to goodness we can produce another Ashley Giles who can just tie up an end and keep things tight while the seamers attack from the other one.
Leach is just such a bowler but he got injured before the match and his replacement during it.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 21, 2023, 11:17:21 AM
I suppose if you laud them for the style of play when they are winning, you shouldn't pile in on them when they lose playing that way. I did think they were a bit reckless in New Zealand and it cost them a series win and again I thought they were reckless at times in this game and it has cost them really. It's all good and well prioritising style of play, but this is the Ashes and results mean everything.
I think it was important that we got off with a win as it Lord's next and we haven't got a great record there. Think it will be very hard to come back from 2-0 down to even get a draw.
Agree 100%. I think our aggressive approach is great, but play the situation.
Unless you're on 500+, you don't declare in the first innings of a series. Aggressive vs reckless. Okay, we made a statement... then dropped a shitload of catches, and lost.
The question is, would the Aussies have allowed us to win that test at the Gabba? Would they fuck.
We can get back in this series, but Lord's will be tough. Mo did well and bowled his fingers to the bone. Our worst seamer was Jimmy, but you don't drop Jimmy for Lord's.
I can't see us making changes. He gets in the side on his batting, but the only real question is whether Bairstow is light enough to 'keep. No shame in asking that, because he's returning from a serious injury.
Putting on entertainment is great, but we need to make sure we act when we smell blood, because the Aussies were bleeding throughout, and we let them rack up a win - from nothing.
Agree with that Rory. I've seen us take some fearful hammerings off the Aussies over the years, but that one stung a bit last night as it felt like we gift wrapped it a bit for them.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 21, 2023, 11:22:43 AM
Tammy Beaumont, Emma Lamb, Heather Knight (captain), Nat Sciver-Brunt, Sophia Dunkley, Danielle Wyatt, Amy Jones (wk), Sophie Ecclestone, Kate Cross, Lauren Filer, Lauren Bell.
I'm surprised that Issy Wong isn't in the side, but apparently Lauren Filer is a bit quicker.
Lack of another genuine all-rounder puts added pressure on NSB
Post by: Risso on June 21, 2023, 11:45:46 AM
Thing is, this was inevitable at some point playing ‘Bazball’. The truth is they were always going to take some risks and end up losing a close one. One you could look back on and ask questions.
Just wished it wasn’t yesterday against them.
The thing with Bazball is, it needs to get a bit more 'football'. Mix in a bit of intelligence when required. England could and should have won the first test. I'm very much for the new way of playing, but at times they just need to think about things a bit more carefully.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 21, 2023, 11:50:30 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 21, 2023, 01:19:08 PM
Thing is, this was inevitable at some point playing ‘Bazball’. The truth is they were always going to take some risks and end up losing a close one. One you could look back on and ask questions.
Just wished it wasn’t yesterday against them.
The thing with Bazball is, it needs to get a bit more 'football'. Mix in a bit of intelligence when required. England could and should have won the first test. I'm very much for the new way of playing, but at times they just need to think about things a bit more carefully.
Spot on. To be fair they are only a year into the job, so we may see the tactical side of things evolve over time.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 21, 2023, 05:42:07 PM
*until Root's last over.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 22, 2023, 05:49:21 PM
Is there any rule against the men's team calling up Ecclestone. She might be the best spin option in the country at the moment
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 22, 2023, 07:56:30 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 23, 2023, 12:03:54 AM
The handwringing from some of the Aussies about Robinson’s send off of Khawaja is laughable.
Short memories in that part of the world it seems, as they seem to have forgotten the antics of Merv Hughes, Glenn McGrath et al.
While we're on the subject of Australians, listening to the TMS coverage, that Jim Maxwell is one annoying bell end. Mark Taylor on the other hand, is a welcome addition to the commentary boxes.
Post by: Rory on June 23, 2023, 12:10:14 AM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 23, 2023, 01:54:27 AM
I like Gillespie. Very knowledgeable and an awesome voice.
Yep, really like him.
Post by: OzVilla on June 23, 2023, 03:30:28 AM
The handwringing from some of the Aussies about Robinson’s send off of Khawaja is laughable.
Short memories in that part of the world it seems, as they seem to have forgotten the antics of Merv Hughes, Glenn McGrath et al.
While we're on the subject of Australians, listening to the TMS coverage, that Jim Maxwell is one annoying bell end. Mark Taylor on the other hand, is a welcome addition to the commentary boxes.
I cannot fecking stand Jim Maxwell. He also has the habit of when things are going well for them he's all sweetness and light but gets that Aussie mood on when things don't, he's such a annoying twat.
Not a patch on other less celebrated cricket commentators from these parts.
Post by: Rory on June 23, 2023, 03:45:20 AM
The handwringing from some of the Aussies about Robinson’s send off of Khawaja is laughable.
Short memories in that part of the world it seems, as they seem to have forgotten the antics of Merv Hughes, Glenn McGrath et al.
While we're on the subject of Australians, listening to the TMS coverage, that Jim Maxwell is one annoying bell end. Mark Taylor on the other hand, is a welcome addition to the commentary boxes.
I cannot fecking stand Jim Maxwell. He also has the habit of when things are going well for them he's all sweetness and light but gets that Aussie mood on when things don't, he's such a annoying twat.
Not a patch on other less celebrated cricket commentators from these parts.
I do think it's important to remember a lot of these Aussie commentators have had to sit alongside the likes of Boycott.
Perhaps not Maxwell, but I do find modern Aus commentators like Ponting, Clarke, Gilchrist & McGrath very objective and complimentary of good play from both sides.
I love the rivalry, but it's brilliant to hear an Aussie commentator shouting acclaim in response to an England catch, or an English commentator praising an Aussie century.
The beauty of the game.
Post by: Nev on June 23, 2023, 05:43:57 AM
I like Maxwell precisely because he is a bit of an old misery and adds some colour. I find myself enjoying Tufnell more and more who has all but abandoned the laddish banter and replaced it with a more relaxed, observational side.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2023, 07:06:24 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on June 23, 2023, 11:59:58 AM
Good fight-back by England here, just as it seemed Aus were going to put up a big first innings score.
Is there any rule against the men's team calling up Ecclestone. She might be the best spin option in the country at the moment
What struck me yesterday is how far back the umpires are standing from the stumps. How can they possibly see a no ball?
Post by: tomd2103 on June 23, 2023, 12:09:38 PM
I like Gillespie. Very knowledgeable and an awesome voice.
Yep, I'm a fan of Jason Gillespie as well.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2023, 12:23:56 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 23, 2023, 12:35:05 PM
Good fight-back by England here, just as it seemed Aus were going to put up a big first innings score.
Is there any rule against the men's team calling up Ecclestone. She might be the best spin option in the country at the moment
What struck me yesterday is how far back the umpires are standing from the stumps. How can they possibly see a no ball?
They don’t have to. That’s the 3rd umpire’s job
Post by: Rotterdam on June 23, 2023, 01:43:31 PM
Good fight-back by England here, just as it seemed Aus were going to put up a big first innings score.
Is there any rule against the men's team calling up Ecclestone. She might be the best spin option in the country at the moment
What struck me yesterday is how far back the umpires are standing from the stumps. How can they possibly see a no ball?
They don’t have to. That’s the 3rd umpire’s job
Isn't that just checked when a wicket is taken?
Post by: Rotterdam on June 23, 2023, 01:45:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2023, 08:47:47 PM
I support the aggressive approach but this is a right load of bollocks. Between these and the comments he made about “average punters” Crawley should probably stop with the sound bites.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 23, 2023, 09:07:22 PM
https://www.skysports.com/share/12908539
I support the aggressive approach but this is a right load of bollocks. Between these and the comments he made about “average punters” Crawley should probably stop with the sound bites.
Yeah, it's definitely daft. I don't think they need firing up any more.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 23, 2023, 09:14:25 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 24, 2023, 10:35:50 AM
It’s more the “brand” not being about winning. The aggressive style is a vehicle to win more and be more entertaining, but the winning bit is important too.
Especially in an Ashes series. Would agree that the aggressive style might be required more in a less high profile series where there isn't really anything at stake. It is making those kind of series exciting to watch that is important.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 24, 2023, 09:18:17 PM
However, with the Aussie lead over 90 and two days left, they’re still favourites.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 25, 2023, 05:17:38 PM
Great I double century by Tammy.
However, with the Aussie lead over 90 and two days left, they’re still favourites.
After a fantastic performance in the field it’s now swung back in our favour.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 25, 2023, 06:50:31 PM
Still over 150 behind with 5 down.
Eccles will probably need to chip in with quite a few runs, after her bowling being the main reason why this game is even relatively close.
Without her, England would have been feckec.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 26, 2023, 12:20:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 26, 2023, 06:46:05 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 26, 2023, 11:56:43 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 26, 2023, 12:35:28 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 27, 2023, 08:55:30 AM
Post by: Monty on June 27, 2023, 09:02:25 AM
Slightly lighter but the latest Aussie to get all in a wibble about Robinson is Michael Clarke. They really are the definition of being able to dish it out but not take it aren't they? Never heard anything more pathetic.
Post by: aj2k77 on June 27, 2023, 09:03:59 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 27, 2023, 09:07:21 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2023, 09:07:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2023, 09:08:28 AM
I suppose this is the best place for it but the latest report pulled no punches and finally said out loud what's been obvious for decades
Yep depressing, but expected. Now they need to start fixing it.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 27, 2023, 10:21:26 AM
He's quick and relatively unknown so the Aussies won't know too much about him.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2023, 10:34:11 AM
Post by: Gareth on June 27, 2023, 10:36:23 AM
Back to test cricket, Josh Tongue has replaced Moeen Ali in the only change to the test team.
He's quick and relatively unknown so the Aussies won't know too much about him.
Smith will know him a bit as Tongue got him out in one of his popular championship games for Sussex :-)
Big call though! Obv as a Pear I really hope he takes his chance gets amongst them…with Robinson trying nick Broads pantomime villain tag hopefully Josh can come through unnoticed and rattle a few.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2023, 10:39:39 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 27, 2023, 10:47:09 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2023, 10:47:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2023, 10:48:51 AM
Hopefully the call would have gone to the groundstaff at Lords to leave as much live grass on the pitch as possible. That's the only justification for an all seam attack
Apparently Moeen was fit to play as well. It might work out, but it’s a big risk. Like I said our history with all seam attacks isn’t great.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 27, 2023, 10:49:00 AM
Picking Moeen is too much of a risk, going from bowling ten overs every few days in white ball cricket to bowling fifty plus over across five days is a big ask. I think Wood is fit, he was bowling in the outfield during the lunch interval last week and looked pretty sharp. I think Tongue is a wild card selection that could pay off; how he deals with the infamous slope will be key.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 27, 2023, 10:51:12 AM
Post by: Risso on June 27, 2023, 10:59:05 AM
Hopefully the call would have gone to the groundstaff at Lords to leave as much live grass on the pitch as possible. That's the only justification for an all seam attack
Apparently Moeen was fit to play as well. It might work out, but it’s a big risk. Like I said our history with all seam attacks isn’t great.
Our history against Australia at Lord's is even worse. Not remotely confident for this.
Post by: simboy on June 27, 2023, 11:06:08 AM
Hopefully the call would have gone to the groundstaff at Lords to leave as much live grass on the pitch as possible. That's the only justification for an all seam attack
Apparently Moeen was fit to play as well. It might work out, but it’s a big risk. Like I said our history with all seam attacks isn’t great.
Our history against Australia at Lord's is even worse. Not remotely confident for this.
Almost as bad as Woakes' performances at Lords are good.
Post by: Gareth on June 27, 2023, 11:22:08 AM
That puts Robinson at 8? That is pretty high for him. It’s a mega long tail.
Definitely a long tail.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 27, 2023, 01:04:53 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 28, 2023, 09:55:12 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 28, 2023, 10:31:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 10:35:39 AM
We need a really strong first day here.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 10:36:35 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2023, 10:36:46 AM
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on June 28, 2023, 10:51:39 AM
I’ve been to Lord’s once for a test and vowed never to return. Not a patch on Edgbaston or the Oval.
Time to clean the game up and chuck out the dinosaurs
https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/66022949.amp
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 10:56:03 AM
....but does open up the prospect of facing Lyon on a Day 5 pitch
Yeah I suppose that’s preferable to bowling on a day 5 pitch with no spinner.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2023, 11:06:41 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2023, 11:09:18 AM
Bairstow..."was like a Rugby League Flanker".....
Ummmm, no Aggers :)
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 11:17:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 11:31:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 11:34:00 AM
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 28, 2023, 12:03:57 PM
Post by: OzVilla on June 28, 2023, 12:08:56 PM
Robinson bowling with all the venom of a teddy bear.
Post by: manic-road on June 28, 2023, 12:09:58 PM
'There's people on the pitch........'
Must have been protesting about the use of linseed oil used on bats ;)
Post by: Risso on June 28, 2023, 12:15:13 PM
Post by: OzVilla on June 28, 2023, 12:16:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 12:18:53 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 28, 2023, 12:20:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 12:21:01 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2023, 12:23:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 12:24:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 12:27:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 12:36:14 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 28, 2023, 12:39:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 12:50:57 PM
Post by: Drummond on June 28, 2023, 12:54:10 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 28, 2023, 12:58:33 PM
This is looking pretty rough right now.
Yeah looking pretty ominous in what appeared to be bowler friendly conditions,
Post by: UK Redsox on June 28, 2023, 01:00:03 PM
Needed that
Post by: Villan For Life on June 28, 2023, 01:00:12 PM
Poor performance so far and we need to make things happen the the afternoon session.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 01:51:35 PM
Post by: manic-road on June 28, 2023, 01:51:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 02:18:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 02:22:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2023, 03:10:18 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2023, 03:12:32 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 28, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
And Robinson bowling like a parks league player. Maybe should have kept his mouth shut after dismissing Khawaja.
He's just too slow, you could have a cup of tea and read the paper in the between the ball leaving his hand and reaching the batsman
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 03:29:54 PM
Robinson looks down on pace to me, he’s never express but when he’s in his grove he’s around 82/83mph. He’s late 70s at the moment which is a big difference.
Post by: paul_e on June 28, 2023, 03:33:59 PM
Post by: Monty on June 28, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 28, 2023, 03:35:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 03:36:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 03:43:24 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 28, 2023, 04:03:34 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 28, 2023, 04:38:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 05:01:09 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 28, 2023, 05:03:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 05:31:47 PM
Post by: TonyD on June 28, 2023, 05:54:09 PM
Not the Ashes.
Where’s the passion and fire?
Post by: Risso on June 28, 2023, 05:57:51 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 28, 2023, 06:04:18 PM
Post by: Stu on June 28, 2023, 06:12:28 PM
Today has been like time warping back to the 90's, half expecting to see John Embury turn up
Was thinking the same. England with no ideas and no intensity, meek, and Australia in full control.
Also Stuart Broad’s comments on the Edgbaston pitch about it being slow are showing him up. Great conditions for seamers today and he’s delivered fuck all.
AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING. The home of cricket? Lord’s? Fuck off. A stuffy, silent symbol of a past age, a place where England never play well.
Post by: Stu on June 28, 2023, 06:17:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 06:17:47 PM
The Bazball debate is kind of irrelevant if you just play really badly.
Post by: Stu on June 28, 2023, 06:20:04 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 28, 2023, 06:21:20 PM
Today has been like time warping back to the 90's, half expecting to see John Embury turn up
Was thinking the same. England with no ideas and no intensity, meek, and Australia in full control.
Also Stuart Broad’s comments on the Edgbaston pitch about it being slow are showing him up. Great conditions for seamers today and he’s delivered fuck all.
AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING. The home of cricket? Lord’s? Fuck off. A stuffy, silent symbol of a past age, a place where England never play well.
I was getting pissed off at the number of time Lords being 'special' was mentioned before midday
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 06:25:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 28, 2023, 06:26:07 PM
Post by: Monty on June 28, 2023, 06:34:19 PM
Post by: Stu on June 28, 2023, 06:39:58 PM
Today has been like time warping back to the 90's, half expecting to see John Embury turn up
Was thinking the same. England with no ideas and no intensity, meek, and Australia in full control.
Also Stuart Broad’s comments on the Edgbaston pitch about it being slow are showing him up. Great conditions for seamers today and he’s delivered fuck all.
AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING. The home of cricket? Lord’s? Fuck off. A stuffy, silent symbol of a past age, a place where England never play well.
I was getting pissed off at the number of time Lords being 'special' was mentioned before midday
It’s special to the unending legions of foreign players scoring 100 runs against England and getting their name up on the board, that’s for sure.
Post by: TonyD on June 28, 2023, 07:02:49 PM
Post by: Steve67 on June 28, 2023, 07:13:22 PM
Post by: Beard82 on June 28, 2023, 07:18:09 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 28, 2023, 07:21:21 PM
They’ll put 450/500 up and we’ll make 200 if we’re lucky.
Post by: Steve67 on June 28, 2023, 07:28:50 PM
Men vs Boys.
They’ll put 450/500 up and we’ll make 200 if we’re lucky.
Or we'll make 200, and declare!
Post by: Stu on June 28, 2023, 07:37:33 PM
Fun though all that was, electing to bowl and your opponents getting to 330-5 is pretty poor.
You want fun? Don't go to Lords etc etc.
Sadly we threw it away at Edgbaston because we were never going to put on a show at this dismal mausoleum
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 08:18:11 PM
Nowhere near good enough.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 28, 2023, 09:32:05 PM
The forecast for tomorrow is poor so I suspect the Aussies will make the most of the conditions on Friday and run through us, their attack is good and Lyon will dominate.
Post by: Beard82 on June 28, 2023, 09:35:22 PM
I think our attack is still undercooked, Jimmy in particular is a rhythm bowler who needs overs in his legs which his injury robbed him of. Broad thrives when the crowd is boisterous which you will not get at Lords and Robinson is a trundler who bowls the occasional Jaffa. Tongue bowled some lovely stuff and Stokes is a perpetual worry.Agree with all of this, and the risk is well play the "mindset" rather than the conditions/circumstance. Hope Im wrong
The forecast for tomorrow is poor so I suspect the Aussies will make the most of the conditions on Friday and run through us, their attack is good and Lyon will dominate.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 28, 2023, 09:37:27 PM
I think our attack is still undercooked, Jimmy in particular is a rhythm bowler who needs overs in his legs which his injury robbed him of. Broad thrives when the crowd is boisterous which you will not get at Lords and Robinson is a trundler who bowls the occasional Jaffa. Tongue bowled some lovely stuff and Stokes is a perpetual worry.
The forecast for tomorrow is poor so I suspect the Aussies will make the most of the conditions on Friday and run through us, their attack is good and Lyon will dominate.
Most of that I agree with. But not on Robinson, he’s short of a gallop, but he’s a very skilful bowler. His first class and Test record to date show that.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 28, 2023, 09:45:08 PM
I think our attack is still undercooked, Jimmy in particular is a rhythm bowler who needs overs in his legs which his injury robbed him of. Broad thrives when the crowd is boisterous which you will not get at Lords and Robinson is a trundler who bowls the occasional Jaffa. Tongue bowled some lovely stuff and Stokes is a perpetual worry.
The forecast for tomorrow is poor so I suspect the Aussies will make the most of the conditions on Friday and run through us, their attack is good and Lyon will dominate.
Most of that I agree with. But not on Robinson, he’s short of a gallop, but he’s a very skilful bowler. His first class and Test record to date show that.
I’m not convinced Paul, he doesn’t inspire like a Sam Curran does. Curran is an X Factor player, he makes things happen out of nowhere. Robinson is a top county bowler who is just sort of the quality needed to thrive at test level.
Post by: paul_e on June 28, 2023, 10:22:17 PM
It's not that he's a bad bowler, he's just not as good as he thinks and it means he doesn't always put in the effort he should. On day 2 at Edgbaston he bowled some absolute tripe with long spells where he wasn't conceding many but was absolutely no threat at all. Add on the no balls and the sloppy extras and he's definitely a concern for me, despite having a very good record on paper.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 28, 2023, 10:27:10 PM
My problem with Robinson is that no one thinks he's better than he does when the truth is that he's only been capped because Archer, Wood and Stone can't stay fit.
It's not that he's a bad bowler, he's just not as good as he thinks and it means he doesn't always put in the effort he should. On day 2 at Edgbaston he bowled some absolute tripe with long spells where he wasn't conceding many but was absolutely no threat at all. Add on the no balls and the sloppy extras and he's definitely a concern for me, despite having a very good record on paper.
Perhaps his general attitude is a result of Bazzball?
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 28, 2023, 10:47:25 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 01:02:18 AM
Post by: Rory on June 29, 2023, 01:56:46 AM
The only seam bowler in recent times I can think of who was successful at sub-80mph was Philander, and he was the best since McGrath for line and length.
I must confess to being thoroughly underwhelmed by our performance in this series so far.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 06:39:26 AM
It annoys me to see Robinson with his really long run up only to chuck down 78mph pies
But that’s it - when he’s on it he doesn’t do that. His normal pace is 82/83, which is fine. I think people are falling into the trap of judging him when he’s played poorly. He’s a quality bowler, his record show that - and he’s done it on really flat wickets. He’s not just a county seamer who gets wickets when it nips.
He’s playing poorly, I don’t know if it’s fitness or what. But he’s still an excellent player.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 06:55:14 AM
Post by: Villafirst on June 29, 2023, 07:34:49 AM
Post by: simboy on June 29, 2023, 08:05:23 AM
In conditions made for the attack picked, (I’d rather had Woakes than Robinson) the bowling unit under performed, and they were not supported by their fielders when they did get it right.
Post by: Villafirst on June 29, 2023, 09:09:45 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 29, 2023, 09:39:20 AM
Woakes has a good record bowling at Lord's. He's dug England out of a hole the bat at crucial times. A very competent all rounder.
He also balances the side a bit as he adds extra batting. Sam Curran seems to have been forgotten a bit in the test set up and is another one who could fill the all-rounder spot. Just a shame he's not a decent left arm spinner really as that would be ideal.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 11:09:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 11:11:08 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 11:12:02 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 11:13:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 11:14:28 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 11:15:32 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 11:30:30 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 11:33:29 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 11:48:25 AM
Post by: Monty on June 29, 2023, 11:51:13 AM
It would, but they’re scoring fast and could easily get 450+ still.
I think they will.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 11:51:38 AM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 12:35:13 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 29, 2023, 01:17:10 PM
Post by: Stu on June 29, 2023, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 02:25:51 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 29, 2023, 03:20:47 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 29, 2023, 03:43:00 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 29, 2023, 03:52:09 PM
Crawley's brain fart aside, that was a good session for England. More after tea please England
Yep. Some of the best 'Bazball' wins have come on the back of us having very strong post-tea batting sessions, so let's see.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 04:03:53 PM
Post by: Risso on June 29, 2023, 04:05:04 PM
Innings defeat incoming
With this and your Whelan/Jedinak posts mate you’ve hit the motherlode of wrong!
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 04:12:02 PM
Innings defeat incoming
With this and your Whelan/Jedinak posts mate you’ve hit the motherlode of wrong!
It was just to induce the opposite, I don't mind dying on that hill. The other issue I'm not backing down on, to quote Paul Calf, 'you're just fucking wrong'
Post by: Risso on June 29, 2023, 04:30:19 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 29, 2023, 04:33:38 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2023, 04:35:32 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 04:37:35 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2023, 04:42:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 29, 2023, 04:44:52 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 04:47:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 29, 2023, 04:48:07 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2023, 04:49:25 PM
We do seem to have dialled down the risk level a little today which is why the 2 wickets have stood out a little more.
Post by: Monty on June 29, 2023, 04:50:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 04:52:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2023, 04:58:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 05:01:17 PM
Post by: SamTheMouse on June 29, 2023, 05:08:12 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 05:08:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2023, 05:11:05 PM
Can we stop fucking falling for this short ball trap? Just let their bowlers tire themselves out. There's so much risk playing these shots when the maximum reward is a single. Lyon is injured just see this tactic out.
The problem there is that just letting them tire themselves out is a very passive approach to the game and that's just not how we're playing now. It's a difficult balance for me though, we can't let them slow the rate down too much (and by doing so take control of the game) so we do need to keep looking to score, even if it is just singles.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 05:13:16 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 05:15:32 PM
Can we stop fucking falling for this short ball trap? Just let their bowlers tire themselves out. There's so much risk playing these shots when the maximum reward is a single. Lyon is injured just see this tactic out.
The problem there is that just letting them tire themselves out is a very passive approach to the game and that's just not how we're playing now. It's a difficult balance for me though, we can't let them slow the rate down too much (and by doing so take control of the game) so we do need to keep looking to score, even if it is just singles.
That's a fair point, but their spinner has just gone off with a bad injury. There's so much time left in the game, and playing the short ball the way we are is just daft. All that risk for the occasional single. Just see it out for 30 minutes and then what do Australia do?
Post by: olaftab on June 29, 2023, 05:22:02 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 05:27:30 PM
Post by: Monty on June 29, 2023, 05:28:16 PM
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 05:29:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 05:31:12 PM
That’s how you play Bazball - Just put everyone on the boundary and they’ll hit it in the air. It’s just so unbelievably stupid.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 05:32:11 PM
This is the dumbest collective suicide I've ever seen in sport. What in the fuck are they doing.
Ego. They care more about looking like they are being aggressive than actually winning. Gifting wickets away at a time when Australia were rattled. Match and series pretty much gone in an utterly braindead 45 minute spell
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 05:32:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 05:37:09 PM
Just dense, someone needs to have a word.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 05:39:10 PM
Post by: Monty on June 29, 2023, 05:39:27 PM
Post by: Paul.S on June 29, 2023, 05:39:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 05:39:59 PM
Post by: Monty on June 29, 2023, 05:41:07 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 29, 2023, 05:43:31 PM
Why is Brook batting like a desperate T20 player then guffawing like a moron?Because they are mostly T20 players?
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 05:47:07 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 29, 2023, 05:47:27 PM
Post by: Monty on June 29, 2023, 05:53:07 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 06:34:35 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 29, 2023, 06:37:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 06:39:02 PM
Also worth remembering our last 4 will probably get about 10 runs between them against Starc.
Post by: Beard82 on June 29, 2023, 06:39:31 PM
Stokes uses his brain. I think he needs to explain what the approach is to his team, because I think some have lost sight of it. We need to be ruthless and aggressive, not stupid and aggressive.I was really disappointed with Root - he should know better, he much better than that - and should have brought to the game what Stokes did.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 06:46:59 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 29, 2023, 06:56:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 06:59:43 PM
I think Strauss has just summed things up nicely, this time yesterday you had people genuinely talking about England losing by an innings, today we've won all 3 sessions and people are still upset, we probably have 100 runs more than if we'd been conservative and history has shown us that when we play defensively against Australia it doesn't work. In reality we're probably going to go into the 3rd innings at some point in the 2nd session tomorrow and the game will be in the balance, which is how it should be with 2 good teams.
I think that’s missing the point slightly. The passage of play people are unhappy with was just dumb and you can see that from how Stokes came and played. The rest of the day, level of aggression was perfect. That hour they lost their heads. They didn’t need to be defensive they just needed not to lost their heads.
Post by: olaftab on June 29, 2023, 07:02:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 07:22:49 PM
Post by: TonyD on June 29, 2023, 07:31:58 PM
Even by their standards.
Barely a murmur when Starc went.
Post by: LeeB on June 29, 2023, 07:48:36 PM
Strange how quiet the Lords crowd are.
Even by their standards.
Barely a murmur when Starc went.
It's the graveyard of English cricket. We should burn it down, put it in a big urn and play for that instead
Post by: Ads on June 29, 2023, 07:59:28 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on June 29, 2023, 08:02:22 PM
Excellent from England today. The negativity has been excruciating mind. Yeah some daft shots to hole out, but it's this brand of cricket that has us right back in it.
I agree with *checks notes* Ads.
Post by: Rory on June 29, 2023, 08:02:38 PM
I find it weird that some people (outside of this forum) are going binary - it’s good or bad from England. It’s not that black and white - overall it’s a good day and we’re back in the game, but that was still an hour of poor judgement that’s enabled Australia still to be in a decent position. Both things can be true.
Yep, pretty much.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 08:04:45 PM
You can support the aggressive approach, but acknowledge when they’ve got it wrong. It’s not negative, it’s just realistic. I think Stokes’ approach probably shows he knew that.
Post by: Villan For Life on June 29, 2023, 08:06:05 PM
England are clearly intimidated by Aussies and making poor decisions. Declaration at Edgbaston, persisting with selection of legends in the bowling attack and brainless batting today all points towards a team wanting to prove a point rather than cool heads taking calculated risks. Still in this match but the morning session tomorrow is going make or break this series.
I disagree, we got to them at Edgbaston and we got to them today. They are wary of us.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 29, 2023, 08:26:11 PM
Post by: TonyD on June 29, 2023, 09:02:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on June 29, 2023, 11:02:33 PM
Nah the aggressive brand of cricket is fine, but once everyone is on the boundary you’ve kind of achieved your aim. The Aussies were desperate, we could have continued to be aggressive and done it in a different way. Get lots of ones and twos and then they’ll bring the field in and then start hitting the boundaries.
You can support the aggressive approach, but acknowledge when they’ve got it wrong. It’s not negative, it’s just realistic. I think Stokes’ approach probably shows he knew that.
That's the thing. We had opportunities at Edgbaston, but didn't take them and lost. There was a big chance today with Lyon off the field and their fielders on the boundary to grind their seamers down. Like at Edgbaston though, we gave wickets away and let them off the hook. We've got a long tail in this game so really needed the top order to fire.
Post by: tomd2103 on June 29, 2023, 11:03:23 PM
We need to declare asap before Lyon recovers.
Looked a bad one to be honest and could potentially be a tear. Not good to see and have to feel for the bloke, but it gives England a big opportunity.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 03:10:25 AM
I absolutely love the way we are trying to play our cricket, but when we are 190/1 and their world class spinner has a bad injury, why are we falling into their short ball trap and gifting them an easy route back into the match? I'd get it if the rewards for the shots played were tangible but the majority of the time it was risk for the reward of a single at best and any miscue meant trouble.
It's not hindsight to say that we should have just allowed their quicks to tire themselves out with the tactic as it was simple to see at the time. We really should have got to the end of the day no more than 2 wickets down and we would be in a very strong position
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 06:55:40 AM
Nah the aggressive brand of cricket is fine, but once everyone is on the boundary you’ve kind of achieved your aim. The Aussies were desperate, we could have continued to be aggressive and done it in a different way. Get lots of ones and twos and then they’ll bring the field in and then start hitting the boundaries.
You can support the aggressive approach, but acknowledge when they’ve got it wrong. It’s not negative, it’s just realistic. I think Stokes’ approach probably shows he knew that.
That's the thing. We had opportunities at Edgbaston, but didn't take them and lost. There was a big chance today with Lyon off the field and their fielders on the boundary to grind their seamers down. Like at Edgbaston though, we gave wickets away and let them off the hook. We've got a long tail in this game so really needed the top order to fire.
Yep and I think it’s a case of players getting a bit confused. There comes a time where attack/aggression can take a different form - which was continuing to demoralise Australia. They then keep banging it in and knacker themselves and then when they realise it won’t work they bring the field in and you smash it into the gaps. Instead we played into their hands and gave them what they wanted.
And as I say, the key indicator is Stokes. Look at how he played - he got it and was showing his team.
Overall really good day for England, but acknowledging 45 mins odd was just dumb doesn’t mean you’re being negative, it’s just realistic.
Hopefully we’ll have a really good couple of sessions tomorrow and get a good lead.
Post by: simboy on June 30, 2023, 08:01:30 AM
If England had been 150-4 at close would we be happy? I doubt it
As said above Bazball is about getting time for the bowlers into the game. Australia will be batting again by mid afternoon. They will either have very small lead or be about level.
My view is Bazball is a bit like the culture shock we got when we played the ball around at the back. The goal against Brighton away sent many into apoplexy. More so just signing a left back. We have to trust the process
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 08:07:05 AM
As I’ve said just look at Stokes’ approach, he saw what the situation required. It’s not negative or going away from Bazball, it’s working out how to best dominate.
It’s ok to be supportive of an approach, which I absolutely am, but also acknowledge when mistakes are made.
Post by: simboy on June 30, 2023, 08:16:39 AM
However, clearly the approach is that the top order (in particular) go hard if they can, they did. I was fuming with both Duckett and Root but having thought about it I got why. I may disagree with the personnel (Crawley and Robinson currently) but I think the philosophy is right.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 08:34:30 AM
Best illustration of why I think the minds were scrambled is Duckett’s defence of the approach. He said something along the lines if they put a load of slips in we wouldn’t stop driving. That makes sense, but when you’re driving you’re not purposely trying to edge it. In this case we were deliberately hitting it in the air to where they’d put fielders.
Post by: Beard82 on June 30, 2023, 09:03:35 AM
I’m sure I read somewhere that root didn’t know quite how it fitted into this new setup. And it kind of feels like that at times in the middle - the players feel like they don’t have a choice.
What root did yesterday was stupid - he’s in good Nick and our best batsman - as a senior member of the team surely he should have done what stokes did.
Surely the philosophy isn’t to lose by an innings because we would rather try and hit the skin off the ball than play the situation with some common sense
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 09:35:15 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 30, 2023, 10:39:39 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 11:05:21 AM
Lyon arrived at the ground on crutches this morning, still no official announcement about his participation in this match or the rest of the series.
Australia probably cannot believe their luck as to how England have once again thrown away such a strong position. They would have been fearing the worst when Lyon went off injured, but our braindead batsmen have done all the work for them
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 11:06:18 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 11:07:02 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 11:07:33 AM
Yeah it’s a nonsense and also admitting when they get it a bit wrong is fine and not a weakness. Learning, adapting, and improving is a positive thing to do.
Again I think you're missing the point and you need to stop focusing on specifics. We have all seen England teams play it safe and be 4 wickets down for 100-150 runs because they been done by a few good deliveries or because the opposition build some scoreboard pressure. How we've played in the last couple of years has been to accept that you're generally going to lose wickets regardless of how you bat so we're choosing to go for big shots and flip that scoreboard pressure.
Yes we can have periods where we take a bit of step back but that decision is on the batter, not the team.
And right no cue there's an example, that wasn't a risky shot from Stokes, he's just been done by a good delivery and now he's gone having taken a lot of time out of the game for very little impact on the scoreboard. I'm not saying he's wrong to do what he did but if he'd been out for 35-40 last night trying to smash things around the net result would be us having 20 more runs on the board.
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 11:09:21 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on June 30, 2023, 11:16:46 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 11:18:58 AM
I understand the frustration and I get why with hindsight people think it's too aggressive but Starc has just shown that playing safer doesn't stop you being done by a good delivery so the idea that we'd be in a better position if we were a bit more circumspect just doesn't ring true to me.
By taking on the short stuff we kept them playing it and we kept scoring. Stokes wasn't playing the short stuff so they changed how they bowled to him, and got him out anyway.
I don't think any of our wickets yesterday were down to genuinely poor decisions by the batsmen, instead they were just poor execution and good deliveries. Nothing we do will remove those 2 things from the game so bazball is all about finding ways to control the game until they happen.
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 11:22:01 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 11:32:53 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 11:33:50 AM
Root was out hooking off a no-ball too, and Brook was fortunate to get dropped. The calculation was so clear that it wasn't worth it. It's not the same thing as driving when there are slips - this is hitting the ball in the air right in the area where they have fielders waiting. It was totally brainless.
but in terms of impact on the game Stokes only score 7 more runs that Root. Why was it a mistake from Root to back his ability and try to hit over the field but it's not a mistake from Stokes to let their bowlers go back to a more familiar plan and trap him with the sort of good delivery everyone knows Starc is capable of?
"You can't account for good bowling" or something similar is the normal response but the entire point of bazball is to do exactly that, if we just let the bowlers dictate play they will eventually find something.
Look at how they have the field set to Brook, he's not going to get caught at slip because they haven't got the balls to take fielders out of positions protecting the boundary so him being so aggressive removes the risk of him being bowled in the exact manner Stokes was.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 11:34:45 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66066325
Quote
Australia spinner Nathan Lyon suffered a "significant calf strain" on day two of the second Ashes Test and is a doubt for the rest of the series.
Lyon pulled up when running to field a ball and had to be helped by the physio as he walked back to the dressing room.
The 35-year-old has not returned to the field since and arrived at the ground on crutches before day three.
Cricket Australia said he will "require a period of rehabilitation after this match is concluded".
"A decision regarding his availability for the remainder of the series will be made at the conclusion of the game," they added.
Lyon could bat, if required, later in the game.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 11:35:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 11:38:27 AM
Really really poor and they’re into the tail.
Post by: OzVilla on June 30, 2023, 11:39:12 AM
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 11:40:27 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 11:40:30 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 11:42:47 AM
Siri, is it 'positive cricket' to go from 200-1 to giving up a first innings deficit of a 100?
Quire and this is 100% a result of that 45 mins yesterday.
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 11:43:00 AM
Post by: Paul.S on June 30, 2023, 11:50:08 AM
Post by: German James on June 30, 2023, 11:50:33 AM
FFS, being attacking doesn't have to mean being utterly stupid, does it. We'll be luck to get within 80 of their total at this rate, from a really good position yesterday. Chucking wickets away willy nilly isn't good or clever cricket, it just means we're going to get walloped in every test this series if it continues.This. 1000 times this! I'm all for Bazball, I've watched more of these two matches than I have any cricket for years because of it. But batting positively/aggressively doesn't have to mean swinging at every single ball, chosing shots your average cider-fueled village tail-ender would! A bit of pragmatism after they started bowling short was what was needed.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 11:52:46 AM
Only Stokes has been got out here.
Not just this innings really. How many of our batsmen were actually got out in the first test rather than throwing their wicket away? Compare that to how hard our bowlers have had to work to get their batsmen out....
Australia are on the verge of going 2-0 up in the series and we've just handed it to them on a plate.
Post by: Lsvilla on June 30, 2023, 11:59:38 AM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 12:00:27 PM
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 12:02:14 PM
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 12:04:26 PM
This wasn't controlled, this wasn't concerned just with scoring however it comes. This was drinking your own Kool Aid, getting obsessed with hitting for hitting's sake, and mule-headedly refusing to learn the most astonishingly obvious of lessons.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 12:05:55 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on June 30, 2023, 12:06:07 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on June 30, 2023, 12:06:17 PM
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 12:06:24 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 12:07:46 PM
With Bairstow in the team, I'd have him higher up the order
Post by: German James on June 30, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 12:08:47 PM
England currently 52% on the SS Win Predictor. Really?
Win Predictor is best ignored. A gimmick that's not needed
Post by: PaulTheVillan on June 30, 2023, 12:09:36 PM
England currently 52% on the SS Win Predictor. Really?
Win Predictor is best ignored. A gimmick that's not needed
Even the commentators ignore it
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 12:09:37 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 12:10:28 PM
Post by: OzVilla on June 30, 2023, 12:12:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 12:15:01 PM
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
Post by: Beard82 on June 30, 2023, 12:16:31 PM
we played perfectly for most of yesterday - Oz started bowling short, so we decided we had to go after it. It failed for us - why keep doing it.
Otherwise, are we just going to say that Bazball works so long as people don't try to combat it?
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 12:19:27 PM
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.
Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
Post by: PaulTheVillan on June 30, 2023, 12:20:38 PM
Post by: OzVilla on June 30, 2023, 12:22:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 12:23:58 PM
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
Well it’s more could he have got more runs? No, because he was got out. Could all the others have got more? Yes.
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 12:24:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 12:24:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 12:26:59 PM
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
Also it’s not wailing if someone doesn’t agree with your opinion. It’s not binary either - there is a middle ground between digging in and blocking and slogging it to a field that has been set up for that exact purpose. You can still be aggressive and smart.
Post by: German James on June 30, 2023, 12:27:42 PM
My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.I honestly don't think anyone's saying that. It's just that relentlessly going after everything makes the chances of getting out too easily more likely.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 12:27:55 PM
I get we were shit before Baz ball - but I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing.
we played perfectly for most of yesterday - Oz started bowling short, so we decided we had to go after it. It failed for us - why keep doing it.
Otherwise, are we just going to say that Bazball works so long as people don't try to combat it?
Who is making it all or nothing though? All of these complaints are basically summed up by "I don't care how many runs a player has scored, if he was out because of his own decisions then he was wrong and has let us down and he should've played more safely."
I do understand the frustration and I get why it's so easy to say things like the bold bit but look at it from the other side, if we show that as soon as we get some short stuff we'll go into our shell and stop playing our own game we just encourage teams to do it to us whenever they want to get a bit of control.
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 12:29:21 PM
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
Well, that's a bit of a trite argument to be fair. You can never predict anything with certainty, otherwise we'd all be gambling millionaires, but it's safe to say that once you throw your wicket away, you're definitely not going to score any more. If you don't, then you might.
Post by: OzVilla on June 30, 2023, 12:29:33 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 12:30:13 PM
Post by: simon ward 50 on June 30, 2023, 12:31:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 12:31:51 PM
In any case need to bowl them out for less than 250 now.
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 12:32:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 12:34:26 PM
Without a spinner in the team there is no chance no of getting them out for a chaseable total.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 12:34:31 PM
This was always my worry with Bazball. A disciplined, quality attack would be too good for it unless you can adapt a bit. We simply haven’t.
I genuinely don’t really think this was “Bazball”, maybe a result of muddled interpretation of it. But I severely doubt Bazball is about getting bombed out in a stupid fashion.
Also this isn’t what England were doing last year, there were ebbs and flows.
Post by: Villafirst on June 30, 2023, 12:34:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 12:36:12 PM
England all out 325. From 188/1 that's pathetic all brought about by that mad hour yesterday afternoon. Unless there's a dramatic turnaround that Ashes gone I feel. Bazball doesn't work against a quality bowling attack like Australia have. All the more annoying having been in commanding positions in both Tests. England have gifted the Ashes to Australia.
“Bazball” can work fine, because when England have been playing well they’ve played well aggressively. They just played badly from the afternoon onwards.
Post by: simboy on June 30, 2023, 12:43:15 PM
Post by: OzVilla on June 30, 2023, 12:45:33 PM
This was always my worry with Bazball. A disciplined, quality attack would be too good for it unless you can adapt a bit. We simply haven’t.
I genuinely don’t really think this was “Bazball”, maybe a result of muddled interpretation of it. But I severely doubt Bazball is about getting bombed out in a stupid fashion.
Also this isn’t what England were doing last year, there were ebbs and flows.
This attack is far better though. Far more disciplined. You need to pick you’re moments and England just don’t seem capable.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 12:47:28 PM
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
Honestly no I don't, I think there were a couple of genuinely poor shots in there (Brook and Bairstow) but I can't agree that if we'd just let them bowl short and not tried to score we'd somehow be in a far better situation. That's all I'm getting at really, Brook went for 50 having scored that many by taking on the bowling, yes he went having played an awful shot that he got completely wrong but why can't it just be a poor shot? His attitude is responsible for both a pretty important 50 and a soft dismissal, in much the same way that Stokes attitude was responsible for a disappointing 17 and a well worked dismissal. So why is it that Brook is the one being criticised? As I say I just think people are in Favour of Bazball whilst it works but show they're 'real' opinions on it when it doesn't.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 12:48:52 PM
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
Of course nothing is a certainty, but yesterday, at 190/1 with the pitch doing absolutely nothing, the sun shining and their world class spinner going off with an obviously bad injury, England were undeniably in a very strong position. There was so much time left in the game and a bowling side can only go with that short ball tactic for a limited time before the bowlers get tired as it takes so much out of you. 45 minutes of sensible cricket, knowing and adapting to the match situation was what was so clearly called for. See out that spell and then what do Australia do? What tactic do they turn to then without their matchwinning spinner available? Instead we played right into their hands. A big issue with our approach was what was the reward? The occasional single weighed up against the inevitability of eventually miscuing a hook was all that was on offer for us.
I'd be furious with a village team for playing the way we have from yesterday evening onwards. This is the ashes and the players seem more concerned with how their approach looks than actually winning it.
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 12:51:55 PM
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
Honestly no I don't, I think there were a couple of genuinely poor shots in there (Brook and Bairstow) but I can't agree that if we'd just let them bowl short and not tried to score we'd somehow be in a far better situation. That's all I'm getting at really, Brook went for 50 having scored that many by taking on the bowling, yes he went having played an awful shot that he got completely wrong but why can't it just be a poor shot? His attitude is responsible for both a pretty important 50 and a soft dismissal, in much the same way that Stokes attitude was responsible for a disappointing 17 and a well worked dismissal. So why is it that Brook is the one being criticised? As I say I just think people are in Favour of Bazball whilst it works but show they're 'real' opinions on it when it doesn't.
Well for most England cricket fans, the Ashes is the pinnacle of the sport, and we'd like to win it. The team just need to inject a bit of intelligence into the attacking mindset.
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 12:55:02 PM
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
Honestly no I don't, I think there were a couple of genuinely poor shots in there (Brook and Bairstow) but I can't agree that if we'd just let them bowl short and not tried to score we'd somehow be in a far better situation. That's all I'm getting at really, Brook went for 50 having scored that many by taking on the bowling, yes he went having played an awful shot that he got completely wrong but why can't it just be a poor shot? His attitude is responsible for both a pretty important 50 and a soft dismissal, in much the same way that Stokes attitude was responsible for a disappointing 17 and a well worked dismissal. So why is it that Brook is the one being criticised? As I say I just think people are in Favour of Bazball whilst it works but show they're 'real' opinions on it when it doesn't.
Fair enough, I just don't think that's what's going on. Brook built his reputation on solid scoring without making a lot of mistakes, just taking on 100% of the balls that are there to be taken on. This morning and yesterday he legitimately could've been out 7 times, all from flailing around.
It seems far from obvious to me that the runs we got were achieved with the same approach that cost us wickets. There weren't a lot of big ol' boundaries once the Aussies put the field back (in fact, zero sixes!). They nurdled some runs and then got out with hideous lurches, over and over again. It was stubborn to the point of idiocy.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 12:57:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 12:58:08 PM
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
Honestly no I don't, I think there were a couple of genuinely poor shots in there (Brook and Bairstow) but I can't agree that if we'd just let them bowl short and not tried to score we'd somehow be in a far better situation. That's all I'm getting at really, Brook went for 50 having scored that many by taking on the bowling, yes he went having played an awful shot that he got completely wrong but why can't it just be a poor shot? His attitude is responsible for both a pretty important 50 and a soft dismissal, in much the same way that Stokes attitude was responsible for a disappointing 17 and a well worked dismissal. So why is it that Brook is the one being criticised? As I say I just think people are in Favour of Bazball whilst it works but show they're 'real' opinions on it when it doesn't.
Well for most England cricket fans, the Ashes is the pinnacle of the sport, and we'd like to win it. The team just need to inject a bit of intelligence into the attacking mindset.
but what does that 'intelligence' look like because by the definition you all seem to have decided on Stokes was intelligent, that's why I made the trite comment about bonus runs. If Pope had connected better with his would his 'brainless' shot have turned into an intelligent 6 to put pressure on the short ball game? If Brook had got through his shot quicker and he'd smashed it through cow corner would it still have been brainless? Why wasn't Stokes being brainless when, by not taking on the short ball, he let them bring in a couple of slips and then got caught by one of them?
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on June 30, 2023, 01:04:45 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 01:11:15 PM
but what does that 'intelligence' look like because by the definition you all seem to have decided on Stokes was intelligent, that's why I made the trite comment about bonus runs. If Pope had connected better with his would his 'brainless' shot have turned into an intelligent 6 to put pressure on the short ball game? If Brook had got through his shot quicker and he'd smashed it through cow corner would it still have been brainless? Why wasn't Stokes being brainless when, by not taking on the short ball, he let them bring in a couple of slips and then got caught by one of them?
It's not just one or two players though Paul, it's been the majority of dismissals in all of our innings so far. The way we went after the short stuff yesterday was such an obvious trap and we fell for it hook, line and sinker. I don't want to see Boycott style defensive play, but they just need to not throw their wickets away, like the majority have. Of course people are still going to get out even when playing well, but generally the longer you stick around, the more you score, as Australia are showing. A good example was the innings at Edgbaston when Stokes played within himself to see the team through to the break, then got going after that. It was a rational thing to do, and it mostly worked.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 01:11:38 PM
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
As I said yesterday I see it as similar to Villa changing tactic and passing the ball around in defence a lot more. We saw it fail and saw lots of the same sort of criticism but in the long run it has proven to be the right thing for us to do.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 01:14:44 PM
I will actually say that whilst a poor shot, I dont think that Brook's dismissal was remotely as bad as Root, Duckett's or Popes. At least he was trying to manoeuvre the ball into an area of the field where the odds were more in his favour of being successful. The other 3, not so much Pope as he was trying to clear the rope, played very high risk shots where the potential reward was minimal.
Post by: German James on June 30, 2023, 01:18:48 PM
Post by: TonyD on June 30, 2023, 01:25:09 PM
You nip into the kitchen to make a cuppa, come back and we’ve lost 6 wickets.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 01:25:28 PM
It's not "all or nothing" though, Paul! England can generally follow a policy of playing on the front-foot, aggressively going for singles and twos, attacking the bowling etc. but that doesn't mean that they have to follow that policy so slavishly that they completely ignore the opposition adapting to their style of play and changing their attack accordingly.
I'm not the one saying it is though, it's not me saying that we've given the game away and that we should've abandoned our style at the first sign of some short deliveries. I agree we didn't handle things as well as we should've but, much like the first test, I think execution rather than attitude was the problem.
Post by: DB on June 30, 2023, 01:33:20 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 01:34:09 PM
To take a step back, because otherwise I'm going to end up arguing with a bunch of you all day, my point is that how we now play is all about risk and reward. As a group I believe the decision was made that the reward of showing teams we won't be controlled by short stuff was worth the risk of losing some cheap wickets.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
As I said yesterday I see it as similar to Villa changing tactic and passing the ball around in defence a lot more. We saw it fail and saw lots of the same sort of criticism but in the long run it has proven to be the right thing for us to do.
I think you may be right on this point, but if that is the case then I dont think its acceptable of an England team to think that throwing away an ashes test match and effectively an ashes series in order to make a point is ok. If the situation were reversed yesterday, would Australia have been so blaise about it?
Post by: Drummond on June 30, 2023, 01:45:06 PM
It's not "all or nothing" though, Paul! England can generally follow a policy of playing on the front-foot, aggressively going for singles and twos, attacking the bowling etc. but that doesn't mean that they have to follow that policy so slavishly that they completely ignore the opposition adapting to their style of play and changing their attack accordingly.
I'm not the one saying it is though, it's not me saying that we've given the game away and that we should've abandoned our style at the first sign of some short deliveries. I agree we didn't handle things as well as we should've but, much like the first test, I think execution rather than attitude was the problem.
It's attitude that leads to execution. Slovenly or arrogant attitude leads to a less than controlled execution. We didn't need to go after everything, and that's how it seemed we were playing. Brainless.
By all means go after the short stuff, but if the field is set well for it, try something different.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 01:46:12 PM
To take a step back, because otherwise I'm going to end up arguing with a bunch of you all day, my point is that how we now play is all about risk and reward. As a group I believe the decision was made that the reward of showing teams we won't be controlled by short stuff was worth the risk of losing some cheap wickets.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
As I said yesterday I see it as similar to Villa changing tactic and passing the ball around in defence a lot more. We saw it fail and saw lots of the same sort of criticism but in the long run it has proven to be the right thing for us to do.
I think you may be right on this point, but if that is the case then I dont think its acceptable of an England team to think that throwing away an ashes test match and effectively an ashes series in order to make a point is ok. If the situation were reversed yesterday, would Australia have been so blaise about it?
but again with the bold bit you're making the assumption that if we'd just ducked for a few overs we'd still be batting and looking at a first innings lead and I don't think there's any reason to assume that. I keep going back to the Stokes wicket but, given the conditions this morning, that was about as standard a Lords wicket as we'll see all match. If we'd gone in last night at 230 but with 1-2 more wickets in hand I just don't think anyone can be so sure that we'd have ended up with a significantly better score than we got. That's why I just think it's over-simplifying things to just claim that we'd have been fine if we'd just been passive for the last hour yesterday.
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 01:49:22 PM
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
They went after us with short stuff, we played it terribly and they wiped out our top order. It was a huge success as far as they were concerned. Had we played it better then they'd have perhaps been a bit more circumspect in future games.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 01:59:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 02:19:19 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 02:27:53 PM
To take a step back, because otherwise I'm going to end up arguing with a bunch of you all day, my point is that how we now play is all about risk and reward. As a group I believe the decision was made that the reward of showing teams we won't be controlled by short stuff was worth the risk of losing some cheap wickets.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
As I said yesterday I see it as similar to Villa changing tactic and passing the ball around in defence a lot more. We saw it fail and saw lots of the same sort of criticism but in the long run it has proven to be the right thing for us to do.
I think you may be right on this point, but if that is the case then I dont think its acceptable of an England team to think that throwing away an ashes test match and effectively an ashes series in order to make a point is ok. If the situation were reversed yesterday, would Australia have been so blaise about it?
but again with the bold bit you're making the assumption that if we'd just ducked for a few overs we'd still be batting and looking at a first innings lead and I don't think there's any reason to assume that. I keep going back to the Stokes wicket but, given the conditions this morning, that was about as standard a Lords wicket as we'll see all match. If we'd gone in last night at 230 but with 1-2 more wickets in hand I just don't think anyone can be so sure that we'd have ended up with a significantly better score than we got. That's why I just think it's over-simplifying things to just claim that we'd have been fine if we'd just been passive for the last hour yesterday.
Lyon going off injured was an absolutely massive moment. We were 190/1 on a pitch doing nothing under the sun. Australia were rattled. Them going to that short ball theory was out of desperation rather than any expectation. What would have been their next tactic if we'd have blunted that one? They couldn't have gone back to Lyon and England should have realised that.
Of course you can't be certain of how things will go, but we played in a manner where the odds were firmly against being successful, given the way the field was set. I'm not saying that we should have left everything, but playing an attacking shot at every short ball where the risk to reward ratio was well in the fielding teams favour is not good cricket.
We could, and should have ended the day at 250/1 or 250/2 and Australia come back today more demoralised knowing their world class spinner is unavailable and they haven't found a tactic that works.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 02:29:35 PM
Again there is a whole lot between “passive” and slogging it directly into a telegraphed plan.
and that only really applies to Root and Duckett. Pope just didn't strike the ball cleanly and Brook spliced it.
Either way I'm much more worried by what we're doing with the ball/in the field, we're in very good bowling conditions again right now and we're not really doing anything with them. Tongue looks a threat and Broad has been ok, Robinson and Jimmy have bowled poorly again.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 02:32:34 PM
Good news is we’re continuing to miss our chances as well.
We've got ideal bowling conditions once again and not taking advantage once again. This has been a very poor performance in this test considering how we've had great conditions to both bowl and bat in
Post by: Paul.S on June 30, 2023, 02:33:51 PM
Again there is a whole lot between “passive” and slogging it directly into a telegraphed plan.
and that only really applies to Root and Duckett. Pope just didn't strike the ball cleanly and Brook spliced it.
Either way I'm much more worried by what we're doing with the ball/in the field, we're in very good bowling conditions again right now and we're not really doing anything with them. Tongue looks a threat and Broad has been ok, Robinson and Jimmy have bowled poorly again.
Is Woakes injured or just not fancied?
I know they’ve said Wood isn’t ready for this test match but if Woakes is fit I’d have definitely had him in. He can bat a bit, is quicker than some and is proven at this level.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 02:48:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 02:54:35 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 02:58:18 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 02:58:40 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 02:59:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 03:00:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 03:00:57 PM
And with Stokes seemingly unable to bowl more than a handful of overs, and generally being tonked when he does, we're really weak in the bowling department. Is this a series too far with Anderson? He's had what used to be good conditions for him in a few sessions now, but just isn't getting anything going.
I'm not sure, it might be that he's done at this level or it might be that he needs more time at county level to find his form but either way it's not really helping anyone having him struggle like this.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 03:04:10 PM
Post by: Paul.S on June 30, 2023, 03:04:59 PM
Just not fancied, which for this test is a mistake, especially given how Robinson is 3-4mph down and offering very little threat right now and Anderson is looking totally out of rhythm.
Big mistake then. I’d have Woakes over Robinson any day of the week. We are carrying an unfit Anderson and Robinson and an injured Stokes. I think with Anderson it’s a lack of preparation but Robinson has had ankle issues so maybe we are carrying 2 injured bowlers which would be some mistake.Tongue looks a huge prospect though.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on June 30, 2023, 03:06:13 PM
....I do worry when I start to think the same things as Risso .... ;)
You'll always have jazz.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 03:21:13 PM
The team in general looks completely undercooked/unprepared.
I agree, I think that's why I'm so at odds with everyone over the attitude/approach thing, I think the problems are a bit more complex than that and come down to the 1 test against Ireland not really being enough preparation.
The current status with Australia is why I'm happier with how we play now than the past, they've done pretty well to stay in the game for 25-26 overs but with Warner gone and Labuschagne very close to joining him the slow scoring means they're not really pulling the game away from us. a couple of good overs right now and the game could turn again whereas if they'd been playing a few more shots they might be another wicket down but with a 220-230 lead already in the bag.
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 03:31:58 PM
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 03:34:09 PM
Unfortunately, I think that we might be getting near the end of Sir JimmyCouple of seasons too late IMO.
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 03:35:00 PM
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
That's pure guesswork but there's no point arguing about it any more, you all clearly disagree with me. I just suspect you'll all have the same complaints every time we lose under this approach.
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 03:35:17 PM
Post by: paul_e on June 30, 2023, 03:40:52 PM
Looking at the two sides, my preference would be the one effectively 166-1 with a 1-0 lead in the series.
That'll be the team that's just won the test championship and who were 1 wicket away from whitewashing us 18months ago?
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 03:45:52 PM
It's the first time bazball has been challenged by a fine team and it's collapsed. It was ok against a Pakistan team that had not played Test cricket for a while and were grateful for the visit and the Kiwis who were without 4 first choice bowlers. Art of the game is to play the conditions and the opposition in front of you.With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
That's pure guesswork but there's no point arguing about it any more, you all clearly disagree with me. I just suspect you'll all have the same complaints every time we lose under this approach.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 03:51:36 PM
Post by: Risso on June 30, 2023, 03:55:41 PM
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
That's pure guesswork but there's no point arguing about it any more, you all clearly disagree with me. I just suspect you'll all have the same complaints every time we lose under this approach.
I don't think it's wildly crazy to think that when you're 187-1, that if three of your top order batsmen don't then chuck their wickets away, that they should have been able to add more than 40 runs. Of course it's guesswork, but as I said before, once you're out you're out and you definiely can't score any more. Another 30 each, and it's game on. Now it's almost certainly 2-0 down in the series.
Post by: Ads on June 30, 2023, 04:04:37 PM
Post by: Monty on June 30, 2023, 04:08:56 PM
Bowled nicely...but. I wonder if Amderson and Broad are just now done. We're so badly lacking in pace.
Honestly, Broad is on one of the unluckiest streaks I can remember, between this and the 4th innings at Edgebaston.
Anderson, however...breaks my heart to say it, but against real top-level batting he doesn't look to have the incision anymore.
Post by: UK Redsox on June 30, 2023, 04:09:02 PM
Post by: Ads on June 30, 2023, 04:10:23 PM
Bowled nicely...but. I wonder if Amderson and Broad are just now done. We're so badly lacking in pace.
Honestly, Broad is on one of the unluckiest streaks I can remember, between this and the 4th innings at Edgebaston.
Anderson, however...breaks my heart to say it, but against real top-level batting he doesn't look to have the incision anymore.
There's just no threat at all anymore with Jimmy. I hope Wood is fit for the 3rd test.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 04:21:55 PM
Looking at the two sides, my preference would be the one effectively 166-1 with a 1-0 lead in the series.
That'll be the team that's just won the test championship and who were 1 wicket away from whitewashing us 18months ago?
Indeed. Australia are a very fine side, but they haven't really had to play all that well to win the 1st test and be so far ahead in the 2nd. We've gifted them it so far.
Post by: Ads on June 30, 2023, 04:22:02 PM
Post by: lovejoy on June 30, 2023, 04:35:21 PM
Post by: Paul.S on June 30, 2023, 04:37:18 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on June 30, 2023, 04:41:14 PM
Post by: Ads on June 30, 2023, 04:47:59 PM
Broad and Anderson have bowled garbage today under very helpful conditions
No they haven't. They've bowled well, we've just not carried that extra pace to trouble them.
Glad that wank shaft has gone.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 04:49:08 PM
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 05:00:16 PM
Not a big cricket fan so need some help. I always though test cricket was adjusting your tactics in accordance with the position of the match. I understand England have more aggressive tactics now but just sticking to the plan come what may really the answer, its almost as if the result is incidental to them.Yes you are right and you know more than you admit :)
Post by: olaftab on June 30, 2023, 05:02:27 PM
Just need 7 for about 50.That's another hapball (when Bazball goes wrong) England will lose a Test match where Australia only had 9 wickets to play with.
Post by: Paul.S on June 30, 2023, 05:03:02 PM
Bowled nicely...but. I wonder if Amderson and Broad are just now done. We're so badly lacking in pace.
Honestly, Broad is on one of the unluckiest streaks I can remember, between this and the 4th innings at Edgebaston.
Anderson, however...breaks my heart to say it, but against real top-level batting he doesn't look to have the incision anymore.
There's just no threat at all anymore with Jimmy. I hope Wood is fit for the 3rd test.
Didn’t England ask for flatter wickets so suit their Baz Ball style? Maybe that’s come at a cost for the bowlers. Just a thought but I’d keep Anderson and Broad and replace Robinson with Wood and keep Broad and Anderson as first change bowlers. Wood and Tongue opening the bowling could soften the Aussies up for the better skills of Broad and Anderson.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 05:35:02 PM
Post by: Beard82 on June 30, 2023, 06:01:56 PM
Frustratingly we’re probably out of this series bar an epic turnaround. Too many poor decisions at crucial times.
Yesterday afternoon and this morning really took hope from me - it’s just the comparison between how hard we have to work for a wicket and the way we just gift them - we’re looking prime Stevie G villa at the moment
Post by: Meanwood Villa on June 30, 2023, 06:06:38 PM
Post by: TelfordVilla on June 30, 2023, 06:12:10 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on June 30, 2023, 06:13:30 PM
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1674712831487246336?s=46&t=jo4adbG13BgBUR97pIGxUA
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 06:42:57 PM
Just proves you cannot take a 20/20 approach into an ashes series and expect anything other than a 5 nil whitewash
Thing is though it wasn’t 20/20 except for that hour.
Indicator of a side that knows they’ve had a bad day - send a coach out for the interview.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 06:57:36 PM
They might not be results driven, but ultimately they will live or die by results. If we get pumped 5-0, we won’t be bringing a new audience to cricket.
The frustration is it’s because I think they’ve got a bit lost and confused, I think the overarching idea is the right one. Also I think the Foakes thing sent a bit of a message of we’ll back you, but only if your one of our favourites.
Post by: Exeter 77 on June 30, 2023, 08:08:20 PM
Post by: KevinGage on June 30, 2023, 08:35:16 PM
Post by: Beard82 on June 30, 2023, 08:40:01 PM
The other slightly naive thing getting peddled out now is the kind of message of, well you weren’t criticising when we were winning. Well obviously, but also it’s because in general there seemed to be method, calculation, and ruthlessness about us. In these first two Tests we’ve been really soft and just let Australia take the initiative and win one and probably another.
They might not be results driven, but ultimately they will live or die by results. If we get pumped 5-0, we won’t be bringing a new audience to cricket.
The frustration is it’s because I think they’ve got a bit lost and confused, I think the overarching idea is the right one. Also I think the Foakes thing sent a bit of a message of we’ll back you, but only if your one of our favourites.
I think this is where I am. I think it is more about execution.
Post by: OzVilla on June 30, 2023, 09:31:02 PM
Post by: Beard82 on June 30, 2023, 09:37:22 PM
But it’s execution from a strange mindset that isn't adapting to the game situation or opposition. This is in the head as much as it is in the technique.That’s what I mean - I don’t mean technique- I mean decision making
Post by: Villan For Life on June 30, 2023, 09:38:38 PM
But it’s execution from a strange mindset that isn't adapting to the game situation or opposition. This is in the head as much as it is in the technique.That’s what I mean - I don’t mean technique- I mean decision making
Surely that comes from the culture in the squad?
Post by: Lsvilla on June 30, 2023, 10:21:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 10:22:01 PM
Post by: Villafirst on June 30, 2023, 10:34:29 PM
Post by: Rory on June 30, 2023, 10:51:05 PM
Yeah I mean to me it’s clear they’ve lost their heads a bit. There’s a good article on the bbc highlighting something Duckett when asked about adapting to the situation. He said something like, “but that would make Australia think they’d won the battle”. Us losing all those wickets in that way was Australia winning the battle, from being dead on their feet. They’re now probably 80/20 favourites to win the war, for this Test at least.
I agree, that was a very forthright piece by Shemilt.
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 30, 2023, 10:59:49 PM
Stokes contribution with the bat today lasted two balls and he didn't bowl a single ball when England desperately needed a wicket. A passenger....
I don’t think he is. Anybody can get out when they come back the next morning, and it was a fine delivery. He batted well in the second innings in the last game. Writing off Stokes is daft, and he’s been an excellent captain. He’s a key player.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 01, 2023, 01:39:03 AM
Smash bang Bazball and reinventing Test cricket is harder to do when you've got two fast bowlers who will be pensioned off in the not too distant and a captain with regular fitness/ injury worries.
To be fair it was also going to be a tough test against one of the best bowling attacks in recent times. I think the frustration has come from the fact that we have been in the games, possibly ahead at times, yet have blown it.
Had we been absolutely smoked so far then it probably been a bit more palatable.
Post by: Rory on July 01, 2023, 01:54:09 AM
Smash bang Bazball and reinventing Test cricket is harder to do when you've got two fast bowlers who will be pensioned off in the not too distant and a captain with regular fitness/ injury worries.
To be fair it was also going to be a tough test against one of the best bowling attacks in recent times. I think the frustration has come from the fact that we have been in the games, possibly ahead at times, yet have blown it.
Had we been absolutely smoked so far then it probably been a bit more palatable.
Yeah, I'd say we were ahead pretty much all of the Edgbaston test, and were in a position to possibly take charge of this one, but look odds on to go 2-0 down.
Australia haven't really turned up yet, and they haven't had to.
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2023, 10:38:42 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2023, 10:47:39 AM
Australia haven't really turned up yet, and they haven't had to.I wouldn't say that Rory. They have turned up and are at their very best for the Ashes except that this Australian team is not very good compared to their past great teams. England should be more than capable of going toe to toe with this team as a minimum and some would say more imposing due to home advantage. However two issues have made this England team ineffective and those are poor player selection and terrible game strategy and on field decisions. And to add to that Stokes is like rabbit in headlights hence his decision not to review Labuschagne lbw yesterday.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 12:17:03 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2023, 12:18:51 PM
Australia haven't really turned up yet, and they haven't had to.I wouldn't say that Rory. They have turned up and are at their very best for the Ashes except that this Australian team is not very good compared to their past great teams. England should be more than capable of going toe to toe with this team as a minimum and some would say more imposing due to home advantage. However two issues have made this England team ineffective and those are poor player selection and terrible game strategy and on field decisions. And to add to that Stokes is like rabbit in headlights hence his decision not to review Labuschagne lbw yesterday.
This is an excellent Australian team. Their top 5 (now that Warner is back in some sort of form), is excellent and is proven by the world rankings they have. Same with their bowling attack, its excellent and that is also proven by the world rankings they have.
I thought we would lose the series but i thought we would so because of them being too good and playing too well. What i didnt expect was England to simply implode and play moronic braindead cricket and gift them the 1st 2 test matches. Australia must be pissing themselves lauging at the moment. They havent had to do anything and are about to be 2-0 up in an Ashes series
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 12:21:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 01, 2023, 12:24:58 PM
Now we’ve got Smith though!
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2023, 12:25:15 PM
Yeah I mean to me it’s clear they’ve lost their heads a bit. There’s a good article on the bbc highlighting something Duckett when asked about adapting to the situation. He said something like, “but that would make Australia think they’d won the battle”. Us losing all those wickets in that way was Australia winning the battle, from being dead on their feet. They’re now probably 80/20 favourites to win the war, for this Test at least.
Yep, saw that and it made me think of Jeremy Corbyn after the 2019 election saying "We won the argument".
There's been an incredible amount of delusion in what the players and coaching staff have been saying this summer
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 12:27:55 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2023, 12:29:27 PM
That’s a poor drop by Jimmy
Now we’ve got Smith though!
That was one of the most simple catches dropped ive ever seen in test cricket. I honestly think my 8 year old son would have taken that, and hes really shit at cricket
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2023, 12:37:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 12:49:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 01:06:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2023, 01:11:43 PM
In current world test teams context this is a very good Australian team however the standard of test cricket nowadays is poor and similarly rankings are based on that. It is not an excellent test team and fairly mediocre compared to great test teams of the past from most countries.
This is an excellent Australian team. Their top 5 (now that Warner is back in some sort of form), is excellent and is proven by the world rankings they have. Same with their bowling attack, its excellent and that is also proven by the world rankings they have.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 01, 2023, 01:18:19 PM
That’s a poor drop by Jimmy
Now we’ve got Smith though!
That was one of the most simple catches dropped ive ever seen in test cricket. I honestly think my 8 year old son would have taken that, and hes really shit at cricket
Bit harsh that one mate as the ball comes very quickly in that gully region. Yes, you would expect an international cricketer to take it, but that would come very sharply in that position and it looked like he didn’t pick it up almost.
Post by: Richard E on July 01, 2023, 01:19:09 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2023, 01:21:05 PM
Jimmy is the pressure release for them.
I do think now that this series is the end for him. He's been completely ineffective and in this match he's had perfect conditions for his style of bowling. Not only that but his body language has been poor. He looks like he doesnt want to be out there
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 01:30:01 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2023, 01:35:25 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 01, 2023, 01:56:09 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 01, 2023, 02:18:30 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 01, 2023, 02:19:52 PM
I thought there was a limit on the number of short pitched balls that could be bowled in an over?
Theres a limit to 2 balls that can be above shoulder height
Post by: Villa Lew on July 01, 2023, 02:53:09 PM
Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 03:07:57 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 01, 2023, 03:09:57 PM
Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
First time Windies have ever failed to qualify for Cricket World Cup in any format
Post by: Villan For Life on July 01, 2023, 03:12:27 PM
Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
First time Windies have ever failed to qualify for Cricket World Cup in any format
That’s astonishing really. Their great sides of the 70’s & 80’s are one of the reasons why I love the game so much.
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2023, 03:21:44 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 01, 2023, 04:16:50 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2023, 04:20:07 PM
I thought there was a limit on the number of short pitched balls that could be bowled in an over?
Theres a limit to 2 balls that can be above shoulder height
Umps should have given a few of them as wides
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2023, 04:20:18 PM
Post by: Monty on July 01, 2023, 04:22:14 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 01, 2023, 04:23:27 PM
Post by: Rory on July 01, 2023, 04:38:40 PM
Australia haven't really turned up yet, and they haven't had to.I wouldn't say that Rory. They have turned up and are at their very best for the Ashes except that this Australian team is not very good compared to their past great teams. England should be more than capable of going toe to toe with this team as a minimum and some would say more imposing due to home advantage. However two issues have made this England team ineffective and those are poor player selection and terrible game strategy and on field decisions. And to add to that Stokes is like rabbit in headlights hence his decision not to review Labuschagne lbw yesterday.
I fully respect this Aus side, there are some fantastic players in there, but I guess what I mean is that I don't think I've seen a significant passage of play from them so far that has been outstanding. Maybe there have been and I've blotted them from my mind, but I don't feel like they've had to play well so far.
Let's hope for a nice easy chase here anyway, which would set the rest of the series up nicely.
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2023, 04:51:04 PM
Post by: TelfordVilla on July 01, 2023, 04:59:07 PM
how many did mcginn get?Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
Post by: olaftab on July 01, 2023, 05:01:59 PM
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2023, 05:06:44 PM
Now Pope gone. It could be over tonight.
They're just better than us. That ball to get rid of Pope was brilliant, and we just don't seem to have that in our armory at the moment.
Post by: Monty on July 01, 2023, 05:41:23 PM
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2023, 05:42:18 PM
Post by: Monty on July 01, 2023, 05:45:50 PM
Post by: beness on July 01, 2023, 05:47:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 05:47:58 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 01, 2023, 05:52:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 05:54:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 05:55:34 PM
Post by: Small Rodent on July 01, 2023, 05:57:15 PM
It’s like Tik Tok or some other bullshit have got them hooked on the frankly pathetic “Bazball” bollocks and they can’t let go of it.
Post by: Risso on July 01, 2023, 05:58:45 PM
Meanwhile you’ve got Crawley coming out saying we’ll win by 150 runs. Get some humility, or at least be good before you start mouthing off.
It's like Olsen coming out and saying we're going to neat Man City 4-0.
Post by: Rory on July 01, 2023, 06:00:12 PM
Number one side in the world or not, a first home Ashes series loss in 22 years beckons, and my thoughts are starting to turn to what a palatable margin of loss would be - because Australia will be sniffing a whitewash.
No matter how entertaining we are, losing the series by more than two tests would not be acceptable, in my opinion.
Hopefully we stuff them at Headingley and can grow from there.
Post by: manic-road on July 01, 2023, 06:02:18 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 01, 2023, 06:07:05 PM
Post by: Rory on July 01, 2023, 06:08:38 PM
To be fair that first test wasn't brief, we should have won.
Definitely, but we contrived not to.
Post by: simboy on July 01, 2023, 06:11:25 PM
I still think the Foakes decision has been a really bad one for this team. Not because Bairstow came in as such, but more it sent a message that the whole thing about we’ll keep backing you only applies if you’re one of the club. Foakes had demonstrably won England games, and got dropped for a player is clearly (perfect reasonably and not his fault) is not match fit.
With the injury to Pope what they should do is push Bairstow up to 3 and bring in Foakes. I’d look to bring in Wood, probably for Anderson. I’d like to see Woakes play at Headingley for Robinson, not because I think Robinson has been particularly bad but Woakes adds a bit of depth to the batting line up as well as being a decent first change.
However, I suspect they will want to get someone who can turn the ball so perhaps Ahmed comes in.
Stokes playing on one leg has unbalanced the side badly. Hasn’t made a 50 for something like 16 innings I was reading somewhere.
Post by: TonyD on July 01, 2023, 06:14:06 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 01, 2023, 06:16:22 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 01, 2023, 06:20:18 PM
When it should be 1.1. We gifted them the first test.
2.0 or 1.1 is huge.
Post by: beness on July 01, 2023, 06:26:05 PM
It’s going to be 5-0 isn’t it?Don't give up. Think back to some of our absolutely fantastic fight backs.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 06:27:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 06:32:24 PM
Post by: Nev on July 01, 2023, 06:49:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 07:03:42 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 01, 2023, 07:05:29 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 01, 2023, 07:13:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 07:21:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 07:37:56 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on July 01, 2023, 08:01:29 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 01, 2023, 08:02:58 PM
Crawley is shite. Never a test batsmen.
Like his dad
Post by: aj2k77 on July 01, 2023, 08:16:39 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 01, 2023, 08:37:59 PM
Stokes playing on one leg has unbalanced the side badly. Hasn’t made a 50 for something like 16 innings I was reading somewhere.
If there was an even half decent all-rounder available I’d drop Stokes.
Just let him give secret hand signals from the balcony to make bowling changes etc.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 01, 2023, 09:41:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 09:44:40 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 01, 2023, 09:51:38 PM
Not really for. It’s too much and also it’s essentially on three players, the tail can’t bring anything. If it was say 120 to win, possibly, but 250 odd more is just too many.
I’m a realist but Headingley 2019 shows that anything is possible. I expect us to be all out by lunch but part of me thinks that yes we could do it with a little application and a lot less bazz ball.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 01, 2023, 10:02:14 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 01, 2023, 10:39:41 PM
I think if the tail were better it might be possible if we got off to a really good start. But Starc would rip through the tail, so I think unless we’re within say 30/40 by the time Broad/Robinson gets in I reckon we’re stuffed. It’s tougher than Headingly 2019. I genuinely thinks it probably a 2-3% chance.
Yeah, the win predictor at 14% is incredibly generous, there is no way it is above 10%.
Post by: OzVilla on July 01, 2023, 11:42:19 PM
It’s weird they’re so upset, he put the ball on the floor. In any case the 99% certain to win, so big deal.
It’s because they are the most hypocritical whingers in world sport, no one else comes close.
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 12:03:37 AM
Post by: Rory on July 02, 2023, 12:51:09 AM
I thought the Smith catch the other day was dodgy let alone this one, he was fucking shining it on the grass
I think the Smith one was fair because his fingers were under the ball, even when it was touching the grass. If Starc had had his hand under the ball then fine, but he didn't, even though the ball was in his hand he grounded it then landed on top of it.
Just my opinion based on a few quick views of each 'catch'.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 02, 2023, 01:39:10 AM
I still think the Foakes decision has been a really bad one for this team. Not because Bairstow came in as such, but more it sent a message that the whole thing about we’ll keep backing you only applies if you’re one of the club. Foakes had demonstrably won England games, and got dropped for a player is clearly (perfect reasonably and not his fault) is not match fit.
With the injury to Pope what they should do is push Bairstow up to 3 and bring in Foakes. I’d look to bring in Wood, probably for Anderson. I’d like to see Woakes play at Headingley for Robinson, not because I think Robinson has been particularly bad but Woakes adds a bit of depth to the batting line up as well as being a decent first change.
However, I suspect they will want to get someone who can turn the ball so perhaps Ahmed comes in.
Stokes playing on one leg has unbalanced the side badly. Hasn’t made a 50 for something like 16 innings I was reading somewhere.
To be fair to Stokes, some of those innings have been when he's come to the crease in a particular situation and has gone for it from ball one. In that case, I don't think the stats will tell the whole story.
Post by: Rory on July 02, 2023, 02:37:27 AM
It's one thing to be an aggressive pace bowler and destructive batsman in your early and mid 20s - maybe even a bit later these days if you're a t20 specialist.
But he's 32 now, and has been playing test cricket solidly for nearly ten years.
How many fast-bowling all-rounders have there been, really? And how many were still effective at both disciplines at 32? The most recent comparison is obviously Flintoff, who retired at 31.
Seam bowling is a very unnatural movement, and it's no coincidence that most of those with the greatest longevity have been very lean. Stokes is a big, heavy guy. With his style of fielding thrown in, it's no wonder his body is fucked.
I really think he could do with trimming down, even if that means losing some muscle, stop trying to do everything and spend his time in the nets. If he were to focus on his batting, he's a natural no.5 - the guy's got 12 test hundreds, for fuck's sake.
I can't really comment on his captaincy, because cricket captaincy is magic as far as I'm concerned, but in terms of his individual performances, he could either focus on being one of the best no.5s in the world for the next five or six years; or carry on with what he's currently doing for another 18/24 months until his body breaks down completely.
Post by: Villafirst on July 02, 2023, 06:29:57 AM
Post by: simboy on July 02, 2023, 06:58:04 AM
I think Stokes needs to drop the bowling altogether.
It's one thing to be an aggressive pace bowler and destructive batsman in your early and mid 20s - maybe even a bit later these days if you're a t20 specialist.
But he's 32 now, and has been playing test cricket solidly for nearly ten years.
How many fast-bowling all-rounders have there been, really? And how many were still effective at both disciplines at 32? The most recent comparison is obviously Flintoff, who retired at 31.
Seam bowling is a very unnatural movement, and it's no coincidence that most of those with the greatest longevity have been very lean. Stokes is a big, heavy guy. With his style of fielding thrown in, it's no wonder his body is fucked.
I really think he could do with trimming down, even if that means losing some muscle, stop trying to do everything and spend his time in the nets. If he were to focus on his batting, he's a natural no.5 - the guy's got 12 test hundreds, for fuck's sake.
I can't really comment on his captaincy, because cricket captaincy is magic as far as I'm concerned, but in terms of his individual performances, he could either focus on being one of the best no.5s in the world for the next five or six years; or carry on with what he's currently doing for another 18/24 months until his body breaks down completely.
Agree with all of the above … however, just a point of order, one of the best all rounders of all time, Jacques Kallis retired when he was 38.
I think Stokes is better by comparison than most English all rounders of any generation but clearly his left knee is restricting his bowling and has done for a while. I agree. I would like to try him in place of Crawley but only when he’s fit and he adjusts to it mentally.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 02, 2023, 07:31:17 AM
I think if the tail were better it might be possible if we got off to a really good start. But Starc would rip through the tail, so I think unless we’re within say 30/40 by the time Broad/Robinson gets in I reckon we’re stuffed. It’s tougher than Headingly 2019. I genuinely thinks it probably a 2-3% chance.
Yeah, the win predictor at 14% is incredibly generous, there is no way it is above 10%.
Stopping the rapid tumble of wickets was a relief and brings a false sliver of optimism but really it's less than 1% chance. If we get to 250 I'd be amazed.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 02, 2023, 08:10:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 09:31:28 AM
That said no idea why it isn’t obvious that you can’t regain your balance by putting the ball on the ground.
Onto today, it’s got the feeling of being pretty over within 30 mins.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 02, 2023, 09:44:14 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 10:21:47 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 10:25:37 AM
Watching that Starc catch again off Duckett, Starc really is a fucking horrible cheat.Same old........
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 10:34:12 AM
Onto today, it’s got the feeling of being pretty over within 30 mins.It could be as pathetic as that or a bit of backbone and about 250+. I can't see Bairstow resisting much post the two who are in and after him it's a very fragile tai. Either way it will be a deserved defeat.
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 10:38:13 AM
We need Duckett and Stokes to play the innings of their life’s and just don’t see it.
We need to change up the bowling attack for the next game.
I think we were unlucky to lose the first, and with some better decision making it could be different.
Post by: Drummond on July 02, 2023, 11:10:04 AM
Meanwhile you’ve got Crawley coming out saying we’ll win by 150 runs. Get some humility, or at least be good before you start mouthing off.
It's like Olsen coming out and saying we're going to neat Man City 4-0.
When he's already conceded a Haaland hattrick.
Post by: Nev on July 02, 2023, 11:15:02 AM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 11:25:10 AM
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
Post by: Exeter 77 on July 02, 2023, 11:37:37 AM
Post by: OzVilla on July 02, 2023, 11:48:33 AM
Post by: Small Rodent on July 02, 2023, 12:06:35 PM
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
They are a country with absolutely zero history. So much is put into sport as a national identity.
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 12:10:38 PM
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
They are a country with absolutely zero history. So much is put into sport as a national identity.
Well, a few people there have a bit of history. 40,000 years of it, in fact...
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 12:14:45 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 12:16:07 PM
Why Ben, why? Why not leave it alone!
I'm not about to get too annoyed, he's done his job. If the rest of the top order made a few more mistakes on 83 rather than 3 we'd be in a lot less trouble.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 12:18:29 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 02, 2023, 12:22:22 PM
Post by: OzVilla on July 02, 2023, 12:36:15 PM
Taken what’s on offer without taking silly risks.
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 12:42:20 PM
Maybe if England had approached their batting v’s game situation as they have this morning in the preceding 9 days of Test cricket we’d be going 2-0 up today.
Taken what’s on offer without taking silly risks.
One thing you can't say about Stokes is that he doesn't take responsibility. There he is out there, acknowledging the mistake in the most practical way possible, like he did in the first innings.
Post by: Stu on July 02, 2023, 12:45:55 PM
Post by: dr.chekov on July 02, 2023, 12:46:25 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 12:46:48 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 02, 2023, 12:48:00 PM
Unbelivable twattery from Bairstow
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 12:48:28 PM
Post by: dr.chekov on July 02, 2023, 12:49:12 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 02, 2023, 12:51:03 PM
Pope did a similar thing to de Grandhomme last summer
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 12:52:39 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 02, 2023, 12:53:01 PM
That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 12:56:32 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 12:58:10 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 01:08:00 PM
But it’s ruined the contest.
The only positive is that the needle has returned to the Ashes.
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 01:08:34 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 01:08:46 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 01:09:09 PM
There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 02, 2023, 01:09:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 01:09:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 01:13:34 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 02, 2023, 01:15:14 PM
There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 01:16:00 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 01:16:17 PM
There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 01:18:19 PM
Love it.
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 01:18:26 PM
Im with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 02, 2023, 01:19:15 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 01:20:43 PM
What a wanky thing to do.
Reminded me how much I hate them.
Post by: Bobby Boy on July 02, 2023, 01:22:22 PM
Im with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
I don't necessarily disagree with you but I'm not sure that England bowling 98 per cent short bowls all day yesterday is particularly sporting either.
If you live by the sword you might just die by it.
Post by: Ads on July 02, 2023, 01:25:16 PM
Broad is giving them absolute pelters, while Stokes dismantles Green and gives black eyed Pat some treatment too. Its probably not going to happen again, but...
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 01:27:18 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 01:28:02 PM
But anyway, god bless Stokes. If he is to go down, he's going down swinging. Just a superhuman.
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 01:29:30 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 02, 2023, 01:30:30 PM
Im with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Don’t get me wrong here, it’s Bairstow’s fault 100%. He can’t point the finger because it’s his fault entirely. It’s the spirit of the game that I’ve got a gripe with. They’ve just shown a replay on TV of England apparently doing the same, it wasn’t the same as the Aussie had set off on a run. I’d have been very disappointed if we hadn’t had withdrawn the appeal.
Never mind, at least it’s like a proper Ashes now and the needle is back.
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 01:30:55 PM
Snidey Aussie twats. No fucking surprise from the sandpaper mob. If the Long Room is giving it you, you're a ******.
Broad is giving them absolute pelters, while Stokes dismantles Green and gives black eyed Pat some treatment too. Its probably not going to happen again, but...
But it might reignite the series, and you can see it rattles yhem when they get some stick. Would be lovely to make them pay today, but they'll get some stick up at Headingly after this and the 'catch' they tried to claim yesterday
Post by: Paul.S on July 02, 2023, 01:31:31 PM
The example they just showed of another stumping is nothing like just what happened to Bairstow.
I’ve said the same below. It was a ridiculous comparison.
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 01:33:01 PM
It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 01:34:31 PM
No. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 01:35:08 PM
No. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
Agreed
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 01:37:06 PM
It's considered normal play in between balls.Perhaps it shouldn't be. Between overs: fair enough.
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 01:40:15 PM
Yeah 100 - bairstow been stupid - and I think your suggestion is exactly the way of handling it - and the most opperate comparisonIm with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Don’t get me wrong here, it’s Bairstow’s fault 100%. He can’t point the finger because it’s his fault entirely. It’s the spirit of the game that I’ve got a gripe with. They’ve just shown a replay on TV of England apparently doing the same, it wasn’t the same as the Aussie had set off on a run. I’d have been very disappointed if we hadn’t had withdrawn the appeal.
Never mind, at least it’s like a proper Ashes now and the needle is back.
Post by: Paul.S on July 02, 2023, 01:42:09 PM
It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
Yes but like I said if that happens at the non strikers end, the bowler would flick the bails off as a warning and not appeal. Like I also said if he did it, retracted the appeal and then I’d have no issues with it if he did it again. What he did was within the laws but not within the spirit of the game. It’s all about opinions and that’s my’n but it doesn’t make it nonsense or hysterical.
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2023, 01:43:13 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 01:45:17 PM
No. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
You wait for the umpire to call "over" before wandering down the pitch. The ball had barely gotten to Carey before Bairstow went off on his venture. Its something that's clearly been noticed by Australia and talked about, so why haven't Bairstow and England noticed it and rectified it?
I don't think Australia have done anything wrong in this instance, both by the laws and spirit of the game. Bairstow is the only person deserving of criticism
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on July 02, 2023, 01:46:21 PM
BsNo. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
You wait for the umpire to call "over" before wandering down the pitch. The ball had barely gotten to Carey before Bairstow went off on his venture. Its something that's clearly been noticed by Australia and talked about, so why haven't Bairstow and England noticed it and rectified it?
I don't think Australia have done anything wrong in this instance, both by the laws and spirit of the game. Bairstow is the only person deserving of criticism
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 01:47:38 PM
Yes, sorry! I take that bit back (I was typing in anger!). I get the bit about backing up, but I don't think it's quite the same. A bowler stumping a batsman who's backing up isn't difficult - hence the warning. This was watching a player and taking advantage of his weakness, which I think is perfectly acceptable.It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
Yes but like I said if that happens at the non strikers end, the bowler would flick the bails off as a warning and not appeal. Like I also said if he did it, retracted the appeal and then I’d have no issues with it if he did it again. What he did was within the laws but not within the spirit of the game. It’s all about opinions and that’s my’n but it doesn’t make it nonsense or hysterical.
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 01:47:39 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 01:49:47 PM
Well I and everyone bar a group of twats decked out in coordinated coloured shirts at Lords disagreeOh no! I'll have to change my mind now! ;)
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 01:51:57 PM
Well I and everyone bar a group of twats decked out in coordinated coloured shirts at Lords disagreeOh no! I'll have to change my mind now! ;)
I was actually replying to taylorworkrate but I type slow!
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 01:54:08 PM
:D Fair enough! But I agree with twr so...Well I and everyone bar a group of twats decked out in coordinated coloured shirts at Lords disagreeOh no! I'll have to change my mind now! ;)
I was actually replying to taylorworkrate but I type slow!
Post by: Paul.S on July 02, 2023, 01:56:13 PM
Yes, sorry! I take that bit back (I was typing in anger!). I get the bit about backing up, but I don't think it's quite the same. A bowler stumping a batsman who's backing up isn't difficult - hence the warning. This was watching a player and taking advantage of his weakness, which I think is perfectly acceptable.It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
Yes but like I said if that happens at the non strikers end, the bowler would flick the bails off as a warning and not appeal. Like I also said if he did it, retracted the appeal and then I’d have no issues with it if he did it again. What he did was within the laws but not within the spirit of the game. It’s all about opinions and that’s my’n but it doesn’t make it nonsense or hysterical.
No problem mate. Let’s just hope we can at least have a good crack at it after lunch.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 01:56:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 01:57:35 PM
Post by: lovejoy on July 02, 2023, 01:58:54 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 01:58:55 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 02:03:29 PM
Post by: beness on July 02, 2023, 02:05:59 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 02:08:57 PM
I would like to say to Stokesy take it easy mate but doubt if he would listen. At least one team is trying to play cricket.
He has to play this way now. There's little chance of substantial runs from Broad onwards
Post by: LeeB on July 02, 2023, 02:11:34 PM
I would like to say to Stokesy take it easy mate but doubt if he would listen. At least one team is trying to play cricket.
He has to play this way now. There's little chance of substantial runs from Broad onwards
Looks like Broad may disagree
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 02:14:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 02:19:44 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 02:21:58 PM
Is it time to think the unthinkable?LaLaLaLa... Not listening, not listening!
Post by: Small Rodent on July 02, 2023, 02:22:49 PM
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
They are a country with absolutely zero history. So much is put into sport as a national identity.
Well, a few people there have a bit of history. 40,000 years of it, in fact...
I know what you mean, but I think you also know what I mean!
Post by: nigel on July 02, 2023, 02:24:51 PM
I would like to say to Stokesy take it easy mate but doubt if he would listen. At least one team is trying to play cricket.
He has to play this way now. There's little chance of substantial runs from Broad onwards
Looks like Broad may disagree
Broad is capable of a decent score, so is a good partner for Stokes to have out there
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 02:25:19 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 02:27:43 PM
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
They are a country with absolutely zero history. So much is put into sport as a national identity.
Well, a few people there have a bit of history. 40,000 years of it, in fact...
I know what you mean, but I think you also know what I mean!
Of course, of course. In fact, the people without the history are the ones responsible for denying that of the people with it. So to speak.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 02, 2023, 02:39:21 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 02:43:44 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 02, 2023, 02:44:50 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 02:47:01 PM
How was that not a wide from GreenAnd Starc as well now. Just different form of cheating.
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 02:54:56 PM
Post by: Rory on July 02, 2023, 02:56:26 PM
I think Stokes needs to drop the bowling altogether.
It's one thing to be an aggressive pace bowler and destructive batsman in your early and mid 20s - maybe even a bit later these days if you're a t20 specialist.
But he's 32 now, and has been playing test cricket solidly for nearly ten years.
How many fast-bowling all-rounders have there been, really? And how many were still effective at both disciplines at 32? The most recent comparison is obviously Flintoff, who retired at 31.
Seam bowling is a very unnatural movement, and it's no coincidence that most of those with the greatest longevity have been very lean. Stokes is a big, heavy guy. With his style of fielding thrown in, it's no wonder his body is fucked.
I really think he could do with trimming down, even if that means losing some muscle, stop trying to do everything and spend his time in the nets. If he were to focus on his batting, he's a natural no.5 - the guy's got 12 test hundreds, for fuck's sake.
I can't really comment on his captaincy, because cricket captaincy is magic as far as I'm concerned, but in terms of his individual performances, he could either focus on being one of the best no.5s in the world for the next five or six years; or carry on with what he's currently doing for another 18/24 months until his body breaks down completely.
Agree with all of the above … however, just a point of order, one of the best all rounders of all time, Jacques Kallis retired when he was 38.
I think Stokes is better by comparison than most English all rounders of any generation but clearly his left knee is restricting his bowling and has done for a while. I agree. I would like to try him in place of Crawley but only when he’s fit and he adjusts to it mentally.
Point taken on Kallis, he was pure class, but even he was a much better batsman than bowler, plus he fielded in the slips. Stokes wants to do it all - not through ego, that's just the kind of bloke he is - and I think he'd be better concentrating on his batting 🙂
Post by: Paul.S on July 02, 2023, 02:57:07 PM
Post by: Rory on July 02, 2023, 02:58:26 PM
Win or lose Stokes is an absolute legend. You’d follow him over the top any day of the week and this batting display has been unbelievable.
Yep, Stokes is nails.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 02, 2023, 02:58:50 PM
Post by: beness on July 02, 2023, 03:07:15 PM
Win or lose Stokes is an absolute legend. You’d follow him over the top any day of the week and this batting display has been unbelievable.He sure is. Prince Harry will be trying to pass himself off as Ben Stokes.
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 03:14:47 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 02, 2023, 03:14:56 PM
Win or lose Stokes is an absolute legend. You’d follow him over the top any day of the week and this batting display has been unbelievable.He sure is. Prince Harry will be trying to pass himself off as Ben Stokes.
Stokes has a Sean Harris look to him, when he has a beard, anyway.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 02, 2023, 03:15:48 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 02, 2023, 03:16:26 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 03:16:42 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 03:16:56 PM
Post by: beness on July 02, 2023, 03:17:05 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 02, 2023, 03:17:08 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 03:17:34 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 02, 2023, 03:17:54 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 03:18:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 03:21:21 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 03:21:56 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 02, 2023, 03:22:27 PM
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
and then Ollie Robinson bats like a goon. Fucking dimwitted batting.
Post by: Steve67 on July 02, 2023, 03:23:25 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 03:25:41 PM
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
and then Ollie Robinson bats like a goon. Fucking dimwitted batting.
Boh, he's a tailender told to go out there and swing. Much more annoyed with Bairstow still!
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 03:26:19 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 02, 2023, 03:27:04 PM
Is it time to think the unthinkable?
See what you did?
Post by: Steve67 on July 02, 2023, 03:27:31 PM
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
and then Ollie Robinson bats like a goon. Fucking dimwitted batting.
Boh, he's a tailender told to go out there and swing. Much more annoyed with Bairstow still!
Robinson is a better batter than Broad and should play each ball on its own merit. It was a dumb shot. Bairstow, what a clown.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 02, 2023, 03:29:08 PM
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
and then Ollie Robinson bats like a goon. Fucking dimwitted batting.
Boh, he's a tailender told to go out there and swing. Much more annoyed with Bairstow still!
Robinson is a better batter than Broad and should play each ball on its own merit. It was a dumb shot. Bairstow, what a clown.
Yep Robinson can bat a bit. Or at least should have.
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 03:31:12 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 02, 2023, 03:35:46 PM
Great stuff stokesy. Win or loose you led wel.
*raises eyebrow*
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2023, 03:40:43 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 03:43:04 PM
Poor effort.Great stuff stokesy. Win or loose you led wel.
*raises eyebrow*
Post by: beness on July 02, 2023, 03:44:39 PM
Eh?Great stuff stokesy. Win or loose you led wel.
*raises eyebrow*
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 03:45:34 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 03:49:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 03:53:59 PM
Lyon going off injured when we were 190/1 in our first innings should have been the defining moment of the test match and perhaps the series as a whole. It was such a wonderful opportunity.
Yep it’s that first innings balls up that’s cost us this game.
Post by: beness on July 02, 2023, 04:07:35 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 02, 2023, 04:11:09 PM
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2023, 04:12:14 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 04:12:58 PM
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again.FIFY. :PAnd they cheated.
Post by: Pete3206 on July 02, 2023, 04:14:12 PM
Post by: Monty on July 02, 2023, 04:15:21 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 02, 2023, 04:17:16 PM
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on July 02, 2023, 04:19:08 PM
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again. And they cheated.
Far be it from me to defend a bunch of upside down lager gargling offspring of convicts but I don't think they cheated.
Post by: Gareth on July 02, 2023, 04:20:35 PM
Post by: Stu on July 02, 2023, 04:20:55 PM
Post by: Stu on July 02, 2023, 04:22:42 PM
Strauss is a pompous eliteist twat…‘perhaps there are some who wouldnt normally come to Lords in’
What’s the context of that remark? I switched off after the last wicket.
Post by: Gareth on July 02, 2023, 04:23:57 PM
Strauss is a pompous eliteist twat…‘perhaps there are some who wouldnt normally come to Lords in’
What’s the context of that remark? I switched off after the last wicket.
They were talking about Lords actually having an atmosphere for the first time ever
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 04:24:01 PM
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again. And they cheated.
Far be it from me to defend a bunch of upside down lager gargling offspring of convicts but I don't think they cheated.
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
Stokes did brilliantly today, but the really need at how they chucked it away in that first innings. They should have had at parity at the very least going into the third innings. That changes the game.
I’d have big question marks over Bairstow, Anderson, and Crawley. The latter mainly because he’s said some stupid things of late and he can’t back them up.
Post by: manic-road on July 02, 2023, 04:31:08 PM
Post by: Stu on July 02, 2023, 04:40:34 PM
Strauss is a pompous eliteist twat…‘perhaps there are some who wouldnt normally come to Lords in’
What’s the context of that remark? I switched off after the last wicket.
They were talking about Lords actually having an atmosphere for the first time ever
Sigh. Yeah, people who want to see England win rather than ponce about like Victorian gentleman amateurs while the Australians cynically take them apart.
Post by: KevinGage on July 02, 2023, 04:41:27 PM
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
David Warner and Steve Smith are back playing Test cricket, so moral doesn't really come into it for CA.
Post by: Paul.S on July 02, 2023, 04:41:34 PM
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again. And they cheated.
Far be it from me to defend a bunch of upside down lager gargling offspring of convicts but I don't think they cheated.
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
Stokes did brilliantly today, but the really need at how they chucked it away in that first innings. They should have had at parity at the very least going into the third innings. That changes the game.
I’d have big question marks over Bairstow, Anderson, and Crawley. The latter mainly because he’s said some stupid things of late and he can’t back them up.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s within the laws of the game but morally not ideal for me. Saying that, England have only themselves to blame but I still think we’ve got in us to get back into it.
I’d keep Bairstow and have him open the innings and leave Crawley out.
We do need more pace bowling wise and depending on the wicket Anderson could be the one to miss out. Wood and Woakes should both be in the frame.
Post by: Stu on July 02, 2023, 04:44:38 PM
Post by: Stu on July 02, 2023, 04:46:35 PM
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
David Warner and Steve Smith are back playing Test cricket, so moral doesn't really come into it for CA.
But but but BODYLINE!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 04:50:46 PM
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
David Warner and Steve Smith are back playing Test cricket, so moral doesn't really come into it for CA.
They had pretty hefty bans. I’m not sure what they did warranted life bans.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 04:51:13 PM
Australia see themselves as moral arbiters of the game? Lmaooooooooooo
Well yeah I know, but they clearly do.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 04:56:35 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 05:00:44 PM
I really hope they use the anger from this game to make them less casual, and more ruthless. We‘ve lost these two games rather than Aus winning them. That’s not to say they haven’t played well, but both games we’ve let go of really strong positions.And too often through silly individual mistakes/decisions. It reminds me of the old Tyrone Mings: brilliance contrasting with the occasional brain-freeze. Anyway, both matches ended closer than I expected so I'm not totally pessimistic.
Post by: Stu on July 02, 2023, 05:05:48 PM
Australia see themselves as moral arbiters of the game? Lmaooooooooooo
Well yeah I know, but they clearly do.
Was listening to Justin Langer on TMS at lunch on Friday, talking about the documentary they shot behind the scenes, and he was basically challenging the idea that the sandpaper imbroglio was cheating by saying "Have you ever made a mistake?"
Well yes, Justin, we've all made mistakes mate, but this was a premediated idea to cheat.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 05:06:05 PM
Post by: aldridgeboy on July 02, 2023, 05:16:52 PM
I really hope they use the anger from this game to make them less casual, and more ruthless. We‘ve lost these two games rather than Aus winning them. That’s not to say they haven’t played well, but both games we’ve let go of really strong positions.
100 per cent agree.
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 05:23:24 PM
Lyon going off injured when we were 190/1 in our first innings should have been the defining moment of the test match and perhaps the series as a whole. It was such a wonderful opportunity.Agreed. Both is this match and first Test there were moments to grab it and England didn't.
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 05:24:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 05:26:31 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on July 02, 2023, 05:33:59 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 02, 2023, 05:35:17 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on July 02, 2023, 05:36:03 PM
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 05:39:26 PM
And again that runout/stumping (not sure about official status) of Bairstow was blatant cheating.More a stumping I should think, as Bairstow was wandering up middle of the wicket, not trying to get a run. It wasn't cheating and I don't even think it was underhand. The ball was still in play and it was a clever bit of play which caught out a batsman behaving sloppily.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2023, 05:40:44 PM
I suppose they did not want to upset prescribed narrative.
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 05:41:00 PM
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 05:42:19 PM
Even if some ex players struggled with dealing with the stumping, at least the crowd at Lords knew what had happened.What narrative is that?
I suppose they did not want to upset prescribed narrative.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 02, 2023, 05:42:35 PM
You again.Even if some ex players struggled with dealing with the stumping, at least the crowd at Lords knew what had happened.What narrative is that?
I suppose they did not want to upset prescribed narrative.
Post by: Richard E on July 02, 2023, 05:45:15 PM
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 05:46:27 PM
It was a genuine and honest question!You again.Even if some ex players struggled with dealing with the stumping, at least the crowd at Lords knew what had happened.What narrative is that?
I suppose they did not want to upset prescribed narrative.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 05:50:54 PM
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
They did, which makes the way Robinson in particular came out and played look all the more pathetic. The game isn't completely over when Stokes got out and Robinson is capable with the bat. If he was under instruction to do that then the instruction was pathetic
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 05:57:18 PM
I think that's the biggest difference / frustration - when its really mattered we have let it slip, often through poor batting choices. We need to take encouragement from the fact that even though we made a lot of mistakes - we ran them close twice.Lyon going off injured when we were 190/1 in our first innings should have been the defining moment of the test match and perhaps the series as a whole. It was such a wonderful opportunity.Agreed. Both is this match and first Test there were moments to grab it and England didn't.
I think it is with the batting where we have let ourselves down - our bowling attack just isn't as strong as theirs so we need to make sure we put as many runs on the board.
Refresh the attack, and a bit more measured at key times I think we can win at Headingly and go from there.
Post by: olaftab on July 02, 2023, 06:01:59 PM
Cricketing etiquette was burnt to death on this one. It is normal to recognise certain next steps by all participating with a nod etc. Which means respecting the fact that expected course of action will prevail. When the Keeper is not standing up it is normal to expect that ball in his gloves is going to be dead when batsmen clearly have no intention of seeking advantage. What Carey did was to violate that understanding. May be not cheating technically but nevertheless a sneaky underhand act that will always be regarded as cheating on a cricket pitch and pavilions across the world.And again that runout/stumping (not sure about official status) of Bairstow was blatant cheating.More a stumping I should think, as Bairstow was wandering up middle of the wicket, not trying to get a run. It wasn't cheating and I don't even think it was underhand. The ball was still in play and it was a clever bit of play which caught out a batsman behaving sloppily.
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 06:02:24 PM
Listening to Stokes after the game - it feels like the instruction is more, "if you feel you can take it on, take it on". Robinson is better than that. They were brilliant with the ball yesterday, but Robinson and to some extent Broad lost there wickets too easily. No disrespect to Broad would had been amazing up until then.Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
They did, which makes the way Robinson in particular came out and played look all the more pathetic. The game isn't completely over when Stokes got out and Robinson is capable with the bat. If he was under instruction to do that then the instruction was pathetic
I think this will help Broad in the next game - but would like to see one of Robinson or Anderson make way for Woods or Woakes
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 06:08:57 PM
Cricketing etiquette was burnt to death on this one. It is normal to recognise certain next steps by all participating with a nod etc. Which means respecting the fact that expected course of action will prevail. When the Keeper is not standing up it is normal to expect that ball in his gloves is going to be dead when batsmen clearly have no intention of seeking advantage. What Carey did was to violate that understanding. May be not cheating technically but nevertheless a sneaky underhand act that will always be regarded as cheating on a cricket pitch and pavilions across the world.And again that runout/stumping (not sure about official status) of Bairstow was blatant cheating.More a stumping I should think, as Bairstow was wandering up middle of the wicket, not trying to get a run. It wasn't cheating and I don't even think it was underhand. The ball was still in play and it was a clever bit of play which caught out a batsman behaving sloppily.
It was a fluid movement from Carey and the ball was never at rest in his gloves though. They had noticed how stupid Bairstow was in leaving his crease way too early and took advantage of it. I've got no issue with the aussies on this one. Bairstow is the only one deserving of criticism and he should be getting pelters from his teammates about now.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 06:16:02 PM
Listening to Stokes after the game - it feels like the instruction is more, "if you feel you can take it on, take it on". Robinson is better than that. They were brilliant with the ball yesterday, but Robinson and to some extent Broad lost there wickets too easily. No disrespect to Broad would had been amazing up until then.Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
They did, which makes the way Robinson in particular came out and played look all the more pathetic. The game isn't completely over when Stokes got out and Robinson is capable with the bat. If he was under instruction to do that then the instruction was pathetic
I think this will help Broad in the next game - but would like to see one of Robinson or Anderson make way for Woods or Woakes
I think Broad can be forgiven as he'd been in the middle for a couple of hours and with just 10 and 11 left he had to take the option of trying to get a few away to the boundary.
I'd pick both Woakes and Wood for the next match in place of Robinson and Anderson. Woakes I think would be more of a threat than Robinson with the ball and would also lengthen the batting a bit. We are desperate for more pace in the attack too. Only concern with Wood is fitness but we are at the point now where we need to try it.
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 06:18:27 PM
To be it’s the same as when bowlers stop and stump someone out - it’s not in the spirit of the game. Which I get is subjective.
I personally agree with the another poster - they should have flagged it then if he does that again - fair game.
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 06:19:39 PM
I agree with all of thatListening to Stokes after the game - it feels like the instruction is more, "if you feel you can take it on, take it on". Robinson is better than that. They were brilliant with the ball yesterday, but Robinson and to some extent Broad lost there wickets too easily. No disrespect to Broad would had been amazing up until then.Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
They did, which makes the way Robinson in particular came out and played look all the more pathetic. The game isn't completely over when Stokes got out and Robinson is capable with the bat. If he was under instruction to do that then the instruction was pathetic
I think this will help Broad in the next game - but would like to see one of Robinson or Anderson make way for Woods or Woakes
I think Broad can be forgiven as he'd been in the middle for a couple of hours and with just 10 and 11 left he had to take the option of trying to get a few away to the boundary.
I'd pick both Woakes and Wood for the next match in place of Robinson and Anderson. Woakes I think would be more of a threat than Robinson with the ball and would also lengthen the batting a bit. We are desperate for more pace in the attack too. Only concern with Wood is fitness but we are at the point now where we need to try it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 06:22:08 PM
Crawley’s the odd one for me, more than anyone they go out of their way to defend him on the basis of potential. But he’s played 30+ Tests and hardly ever has a big positive impact.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 06:31:02 PM
On Robinson it depends. If he’s fully fit and bowling at full pace I think he’s a bigger threat than Woakes in most conditions. I think they’ll want a spinner in, so it’ll be interesting.
Crawley’s the odd one for me, more than anyone they go out of their way to defend him on the basis of potential. But he’s played 30+ Tests and hardly ever has a big positive impact.
They'll stick with Crawley for the series now. In fairness to him he's had a couple of reasonable scores and has batted very nicely on those occasions. The 1st innings in this match was frustrating as he was playing beautifully and then just ran down the pitch at Lyon out of nowhere. I think he's got the talent to be a very good test batsmen, but it's a temperament/mental issue that's stopping him.
Post by: simboy on July 02, 2023, 06:33:54 PM
It will be flat at Headingley, I think they said Leach bowled 20 of overs first inning last Ashes.
The comments about Wood ‘s fitness were rather worrying I thought.
Post by: Beard82 on July 02, 2023, 06:37:47 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 02, 2023, 06:43:49 PM
Also think we are lumbered with Crawley for the summer…other than possibly pushing Bairstow up to open and Foakes in to actually keep properly couldn’t see them dropping Crawley.
Robinson still has to prove that he is fit enough to play quick fire tests, Tongue is in uncharted territory too.
Lots of selection issues before Headingley
Post by: German James on July 02, 2023, 06:45:15 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 06:46:21 PM
Post by: saint13 on July 02, 2023, 07:02:12 PM
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.
I think the bigger problem is that they were 45-4. Stokes innings was superb and made for a great days cricket. However, by that stage it was never really on, the game was gone.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 07:05:22 PM
Dan Lawrence was the back up batsman named in the squad so assume he will come in if Pope can't play.
That looks likely given the squad that’s been confirmed.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 07:17:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 07:36:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 07:39:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 07:57:09 PM
It’s going to be unbelievably hard to turn around now, but they’ve to take it one game at a time. The one thing the first two games have shown is that they absolutely have enough to beat Australia, but they’ve been to casual/weak in the absolute key moments. In the next game they got to spot those moments and also ruthlessly win them. I really hope the bitterness towards the end of the game fuels them now.
I'm not so sure Paul. Lets not forget that we have won both tosses, and this one in particular was a crucial one to win given the conditions on day 1. In perfect conditions for them, our seam bowlers were ineffective and unthreatening. I don't think Australia have been at their best and can only see them improving going forward.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 08:03:17 PM
The seam attack does need freshening up though.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 02, 2023, 08:03:48 PM
Post by: Risso on July 02, 2023, 08:13:20 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 08:17:33 PM
Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
I think you would also have people on here, if the situation were reversed and it was Bairstow doing it to Carey, that would be praising Bairstow for previously noticing Carey moving out of his crease when the ball isnt dead and taking advantage of it. I think their team are a bunch of pricks too but in this instance I think that only Bairstow deserves criticism for how moronic he was.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 02, 2023, 08:22:24 PM
Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
I think you would also have people on here, if the situation were reversed and it was Bairstow doing it to Carey, that would be praising Bairstow for previously noticing Carey moving out of his crease when the ball isnt dead and taking advantage of it. I think their team are a bunch of pricks too but in this instance I think that only Bairstow deserves criticism for how moronic he was.
I know what you mean but we don't have to defend ourselves in that hypothetical situation because we didn't fucking do it. Honestly I have never seen anything like it, it's such a brazen abuse of the norms of the game but the Aussie gaslighting seems to be working. It's worse than a Mankad because the people getting done by that were trying to steal an advantage whereas Bairstow 100% wasn't.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 02, 2023, 08:26:01 PM
I remember when Ian Bell was run out in a test against India on the last ball before lunch, it was assumed that one of his shots had crossed the boundary therefore making the ball dead. It didn’t and Bell walked off for lunch and India ran him out. M S Dhoni agreed to withdraw the appeal and Bell carried on batting. That is the spirit of cricket.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 02, 2023, 08:31:27 PM
Surely Pope won’t play at Headingley. Move Bairstow up to 3, play Foakes at 8, Ali at 7 (if they’re intent on keeping him) or vice versa and your three quicks. As to who that is, personally I’d pick Woakes, Tounge/Wood (if fit) and Broad.
It will be flat at Headingley, I think they said Leach bowled 20 of overs first inning last Ashes.
The comments about Wood ‘s fitness were rather worrying I thought.
If Pope is out, I would consider moving Brook to 3 rather than Bairstow. Bring Foakes in at 7 and either move Stokes or Bairstow to 5.
Don’t think Anderson will play, but think Wood will come in. Think Tongue has probably done enough to stay in, so it will Broad or Robinson fir the final spot if we go with the three seamers.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 02, 2023, 08:38:00 PM
Surely Pope won’t play at Headingley. Move Bairstow up to 3, play Foakes at 8, Ali at 7 (if they’re intent on keeping him) or vice versa and your three quicks. As to who that is, personally I’d pick Woakes, Tounge/Wood (if fit) and Broad.
It will be flat at Headingley, I think they said Leach bowled 20 of overs first inning last Ashes.
The comments about Wood ‘s fitness were rather worrying I thought.
If Pope is out, I would consider moving Brook to 3 rather than Bairstow. Bring Foakes in at 7 and either move Stokes or Bairstow to 5.
Don’t think Anderson will play, but think Wood will come in. Think Tongue has probably done enough to stay in, so it will Broad or Robinson fir the final spot if we go with the three seamers.
I think there are concerns about Wood’s fitness so I can see the attack being unchanged
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 08:41:30 PM
Surely Pope won’t play at Headingley. Move Bairstow up to 3, play Foakes at 8, Ali at 7 (if they’re intent on keeping him) or vice versa and your three quicks. As to who that is, personally I’d pick Woakes, Tounge/Wood (if fit) and Broad.
It will be flat at Headingley, I think they said Leach bowled 20 of overs first inning last Ashes.
The comments about Wood ‘s fitness were rather worrying I thought.
If Pope is out, I would consider moving Brook to 3 rather than Bairstow. Bring Foakes in at 7 and either move Stokes or Bairstow to 5.
Don’t think Anderson will play, but think Wood will come in. Think Tongue has probably done enough to stay in, so it will Broad or Robinson fir the final spot if we go with the three seamers.
I think there are concerns about Wood’s fitness so I can see the attack being unchanged
Never thought I’d say this but I think it’d be a mistake to keep Jimmy in.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 02, 2023, 08:47:35 PM
I couldn't justify playing him at Headingly and I hate to say that because he has been a truly brilliant performer for such a long time.
I'd go with Woakes, Broad, Tongue and Wood as the pace attack. Its whether we want to sneak Moeen in for Crawley and rejig the batting line up is the question id struggle with personally.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 02, 2023, 09:04:41 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 02, 2023, 09:23:32 PM
I think Woakes is a long way from selection, he’s been out of the test side for a very long time. Could he cope with the rigours of test cricket now?
Then they need to stop calling him up to carry drinks. They've got him in a limbo where he barely plays for Warwickshire or England, which doesn't help anyone.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 02, 2023, 10:02:00 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 02, 2023, 10:05:45 PM
Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
That might be the case, but it was sloppy from Bairstow. You are taught as a young kid to be switched on around the crease and don't go wandering out of it.
Can't quite make out if the umpires moved in anyway before Bairstow did, for if they did then I suppose it could be argued that it was fair to assume that was the over and it would be interesting to know if they had actually been calling 'over' previous to that.
Post by: Lsvilla on July 02, 2023, 10:20:23 PM
Two things from my perspective - JB has touched his back foot down and has scraped his "mark" with a stud before going walkabout and the square leg umpire - at point- is clearly walking in head bowed and not looking - having himself assumed it's over ready to stand for the next over before the stumps are broken.Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
That might be the case, but it was sloppy from Bairstow. You are taught as a young kid to be switched on around the crease and don't go wandering out of it.
Can't quite make out if the umpires moved in anyway before Bairstow did, for if they did then I suppose it could be argued that it was fair to assume that was the over and it would be interesting to know if they had actually been calling 'over' previous to that.
Post by: Nev on July 02, 2023, 11:03:16 PM
It's legal shithousing in both cases and it stinks.
Oh, and the awful comments by Strauss just rubber stamp what was written in the report last week and completely ignored the behaviour of the Members in the Long Room.
Post by: OzVilla on July 03, 2023, 12:23:57 AM
It's the cricketing equivalent of what Leeds did when they feigned to put the ball out but then played on and scored. Its just poor form all round.
You can only imagine the level of whataboutery going on here today to justify it too. They really are classless wankers.
Post by: Rory on July 03, 2023, 02:59:21 AM
I played cricket for 15 years and only saw this happen once. My view is that although Bairstow is at fault this was as fucking sneaky an act as it's possible to get on a cricket field.
It's the cricketing equivalent of what Leeds did when they feigned to put the ball out but then played on and scored. Its just poor form all round.
You can only imagine the level of whataboutery going on here today to justify it too. They really are classless wankers.
Yeah, I have to say, I thought it was pretty fucking cynical. Bairstow stayed in his ground for a couple of seconds, scratched his mark, then was clearly not looking to gain anything.
Given his personality, I don't think Bairstow will have made many friends amongst opposition players over the years. I suspect if it was Stokes they got out that way, Australia would've given serious thought to withdrawing the appeal.
Bairstow should've been more aware, but Australia were sneaky. Both can be true.
I just hope this is the moment that Bazball gets an edge. Sporting declarations, attacking batting and entertainment are great, but I'd rather we had those things while grinding Australia into the dirt, thank you.
We need to win two of the remaining three. A 0-3, 0-4, 1-4 or 0-5 should result in some changes, I'm afraid. We shouldn't be losing like that at home.
Post by: nigel on July 03, 2023, 08:11:45 AM
I played cricket for 15 years and only saw this happen once. My view is that although Bairstow is at fault this was as fucking sneaky an act as it's possible to get on a cricket field.
It's the cricketing equivalent of what Leeds did when they feigned to put the ball out but then played on and scored. Its just poor form all round.
You can only imagine the level of whataboutery going on here today to justify it too. They really are classless wankers.
I remember Tony Greig doing a similar thing vrs West Indies in the 70’s.
If I remember correctly he was crucified for it.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 03, 2023, 09:06:51 AM
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2023, 09:11:14 AM
Another thing about the incident, it's making all the headlines in the papers and what's everyone's talking about on the radio, when it should be all about Stokes's knock, one of the greatest Test innings I've ever seen, how he didn't get MOTM, I'll never know.
Yeah there's a heavy 'man of the match is on the winning side' bias, but that's erroneous IMO. By miles the great individual performance of the match was Stokes's, and if Tongue gets a quick 30 or Bairstow gets to 50 before doing something daft and we win then he would have got MOTM. Weird.
Post by: LeeB on July 03, 2023, 09:21:21 AM
Post by: LeeB on July 03, 2023, 09:25:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2023, 09:36:43 AM
And the truly magnificent thing about Stokes innings again was how he changed gear according to the match conditions. By christ if the others could just figure that out we'd probably be 2 up by now.
Yes Stokes showed intelligence in his innings, we need some others to do that.
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2023, 10:03:31 AM
And the truly magnificent thing about Stokes innings again was how he changed gear according to the match conditions. By christ if the others could just figure that out we'd probably be 2 up by now.
Yes Stokes showed intelligence in his innings, we need some others to do that.
He did it at Edgbaston as well. I'm all for the attacking ethos but it needs a much higher dose of intelligence injected into it. England were in good positions in both tests and fucked them both up. It would be similar to Villa being 2-1 up against Brighton on the final day and then changing to a 3-2-5 formation and sending Emi up for corners. Suicidal.
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2023, 10:58:47 AM
And the truly magnificent thing about Stokes innings again was how he changed gear according to the match conditions. By christ if the others could just figure that out we'd probably be 2 up by now.
Yes Stokes showed intelligence in his innings, we need some others to do that.
He did it at Edgbaston as well. I'm all for the attacking ethos but it needs a much higher dose of intelligence injected into it. England were in good positions in both tests and fucked them both up. It would be similar to Villa being 2-1 up against Brighton on the final day and then changing to a 3-2-5 formation and sending Emi up for corners. Suicidal.
My final post on this (hopefully) but I think it's wrong that until 18months ago the wickets we've lost would've been bad shots, can we not get back to that rather than slagging off the style of play.
Also We conceded 416 having won the toss and deciding to bowl, that's where this test was really lost them going from 96/2 to 316/4 meant they were favourites and we needed to do something special to catch them. We nearly managed it in both innings but the long tail and some poor shot selection made things difficult and then a bit of wanky bullshit from them ended the match. Stokes and Duckett were our 2 big scorers in the test and both of them played perfectly in line with how England have played under McCullum and Stokes, without their performances we'd have been much further behind in this one.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 03, 2023, 11:10:08 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2023, 11:11:18 AM
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
Post by: LeeB on July 03, 2023, 11:15:49 AM
This is not a particularly great Aussie side in my book and I don't think they react well under pressure. Losing Lyon is huge for them, the next test is going to be very interesting.
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2023, 11:22:02 AM
Post by: PeterWithe on July 03, 2023, 11:35:50 AM
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
All a bit rum, what?
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2023, 12:02:26 PM
Two strange misfiring spells have cost us two tests IMO: persisting with the old ball after the eighth wicket in the second innings at Edgebaston, and persisting with the hooking-the-bouncer plan when it was plainly not working. Not the declaration, not electing to bowl, those have justifications and can't really be called 'errors' therefore, I think. But those two decisions were low-percentage high-risk plans which failed utterly. Sadly.
For me if you win the toss and choose to bowl it's a mistake if the opposition achieve a 'par' score or better. At Lords 400+ is a good first innings score that will generally leave you in control of the match, and that's how it turned out.
It's not a big mistake but I reckon when we made that decision we were hoping for them to get no more than 350. Even then I don't think the decision is at fault but rather our execution in the field. We decided to bowl because the conditions looked good for bowling and the forecast for day 2 looked good but then we did very little to take advantage of those conditions, for me that set the tone of the match.
I think it's easy to forget that on Wednesday evening we were all annoyed at the bowlers and some on here were talking about an innings defeat. We were behind for the rest of the game and, bazball or not, England regularly collapse in those circumstances. Again in my view bazball got us into a position where it looked like we might catch them in the first innings and then also led to some of the wickets we lost but I don't think it's as simple as "if we didn't play the hook shot we'd have won". Again look at the batting conditions, day 3 was much better for the bowlers and it proved decisive as we collapsed. I just don't think having less runs but more wickets at the end of day 2 would've had a significant impact on the match.
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2023, 12:16:04 PM
I always thought they were all know as Billy Bunters. Everyday is a learning day.A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
I wonder if Bart, Humphs and Quinnos will ever bother dirtying their square bottoms by sitting in those long room chairs again?
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2023, 12:23:32 PM
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
Of course they're made up, people haven't actually fallen for that have they?
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2023, 12:28:05 PM
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2023, 12:35:12 PM
Two strange misfiring spells have cost us two tests IMO: persisting with the old ball after the eighth wicket in the second innings at Edgebaston, and persisting with the hooking-the-bouncer plan when it was plainly not working. Not the declaration, not electing to bowl, those have justifications and can't really be called 'errors' therefore, I think. But those two decisions were low-percentage high-risk plans which failed utterly. Sadly.
For me if you win the toss and choose to bowl it's a mistake if the opposition achieve a 'par' score or better. At Lords 400+ is a good first innings score that will generally leave you in control of the match, and that's how it turned out.
It's not a big mistake but I reckon when we made that decision we were hoping for them to get no more than 350. Even then I don't think the decision is at fault but rather our execution in the field. We decided to bowl because the conditions looked good for bowling and the forecast for day 2 looked good but then we did very little to take advantage of those conditions, for me that set the tone of the match.
I think it's easy to forget that on Wednesday evening we were all annoyed at the bowlers and some on here were talking about an innings defeat. We were behind for the rest of the game and, bazball or not, England regularly collapse in those circumstances. Again in my view bazball got us into a position where it looked like we might catch them in the first innings and then also led to some of the wickets we lost but I don't think it's as simple as "if we didn't play the hook shot we'd have won". Again look at the batting conditions, day 3 was much better for the bowlers and it proved decisive as we collapsed. I just don't think having less runs but more wickets at the end of day 2 would've had a significant impact on the match.
The question is, was it a captaincy, i.e. strategic, mistake? I would say not, as by and large the bowlers performed poorly on the day. You could say there were selection errors, but given the biggest underperformer was undroppable Jimmy that would seem a bit harsh. There's not a lot a captain can do if his bowlers don't show up.
This is why the throwing-the-wickets-away strategy is identifiable as the downfall, as it was a deliberate tactic which failed horribly - especially considering that our long tail made those top-order wickets all the more precious (you'd think you'd adapt your strategy a little bit if you know you've picked a pretty weak 8-11). It was that old definition of insanity, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. To throw one wicket away hooking looks unfortunate; four looks like fecking madness.
(Which isn't to relitigate it as we do disagree on this point, but I don't think the dichotomy you present at the end is right - if you just duck the bouncers and stay patient you force them to change their lengths and fields, and more scoring opportunities open up.)
Post by: aev on July 03, 2023, 12:46:35 PM
By the way has anyone on here either applied to be on the waiting list or ever been close to becoming an MCC member?
I am a member, but most times I go I don't bother sitting in the pavilion.
I was there on Wednesday and Thursday and was the only one in the members queue in shorts and trainers.
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2023, 12:47:39 PM
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
Of course they're made up, people haven't actually fallen for that have they?
I guess you'd hope not. I imagine some have though.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 03, 2023, 12:52:26 PM
Post by: Monty on July 03, 2023, 12:54:35 PM
It’s made up. No names are mentioned in the MCC statement other than Guy Lavender.
And that really is good enough.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2023, 12:57:36 PM
Post by: Risso on July 03, 2023, 01:17:58 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 03, 2023, 01:28:06 PM
You can admire the overall approach that the England team are embracing, while still being of the opinion that there's room for improvement, especially around decision making.
Succinct, and agreed.
Post by: olaftab on July 03, 2023, 01:42:12 PM
Despite all of the above it's important to say Aussies are cheating scums.
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2023, 01:45:10 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 03, 2023, 01:46:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2023, 01:49:59 PM
I think the first Test was also lost in England’s second innings, when again they left plenty of runs out there. I think that was a much bigger issue than the declaration.
I don’t think Australia have been coasting in third gear, I think they’re pretty stretched and England can absolutely beat them. Three games in a row will be tough though. I think Jimmy has to be dropped for Wood and then there’s a debate on 4th seamer vs spinner.
Responding to Aftab by the way.
Post by: aev on July 03, 2023, 01:53:15 PM
Stuart Broad not walking to the one of the most obvious edges in the history of the game puts him on slightly dodgy ground when it comes to moral outrage.
Well he edged it to the keeper, who deflected it to slip so it wasn't THAT bad.
By the letter of the law he was out, but as a cricket fan it was pretty ordinary to not withdraw the appeal, and pretty dopey behaviour by Bairstow to wander out of the crease before "over" was called.
Ultimately he was dismissed because he mistakenly thought the ball was dead, and in these scenarios appeals are generally withdrawn or later regretted.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 03, 2023, 01:59:25 PM
You can admire the overall approach that the England team are embracing, while still being of the opinion that there's room for improvement, especially around decision making.
Nasser Hussain made that point after the game yesterday. I do think it's a bit unfair that some in the media who have been praising the way they have been playing for the last year, are now piling in on them.
I don't think it is about a change of ethos, they are a good team to watch and although we've lost the two tests so far, both have been good viewing. I think it's just about managing situations a bit better when they arise. I think in both games, our first innings has cost us and it's frustrating because we have looked to be in control at times during those innings.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 03, 2023, 02:02:07 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 03, 2023, 04:00:15 PM
&feature=share8
Post by: Drummond on July 03, 2023, 04:03:11 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 03, 2023, 05:05:30 PM
Regarding the Lord's members, they might have said something, but in both cases it was the Australian players who went towards them and confronted them. Warner in particular squared up to one of the members.
It’s all got a bit silly. Let’s get on with the Ashes and use this to try and get back into it. Warner has history and is not liked over here but if you’re going to shout abuse then expect someone to react. I’ve no problem with the crowd getting on their back from now on, it’s 100 times worse in Australia but there’s a line that shouldn’t be crossed. They know what they did but it’s over and I hope we make them pay in the best way and that’s by winning the next test.
Post by: Richard on July 03, 2023, 06:23:20 PM
Talking about the Aussie's not very sportsman like behaviour I heard about this on a podcast the other day. Before my time so I had not seen it but I found it funny that you could do that so recently (albeit you couldn't do it in England at that point):&feature=share8
The great Richie Benaud summed it up well at the end.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 03, 2023, 06:50:20 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 03, 2023, 07:06:29 PM
I had seen it before and that was way worse than yesterday.
Oh yeah, 100%, I 'get' yesterday. That however I don't know how they can look in the mirror and not feel embarrassed.
Post by: Steve67 on July 03, 2023, 09:02:57 PM
I don't disagree with the idea that there's room for improvement, that's clear, what I fundamentally disagree with is that we lost the game because of bazball when, in my opinion, we lost because of poor form in the attack and some poor shots. The same as why we have lost many matches in the past and why we'll lose many matches going forward. I'm worried that, at the first sign of a problem, people are very quickly turning on a play style that has improved us massively.
With respect Paul, you were cheering on the declaration in the first innings of the first test, when we all know, deep down, it was a poor decision.
As for the other issues, Foakes needs to keep wicket, he's a better keeper. There have been poor decisions all over the place, some poor shots, some poor bits of fielding etc. Bazball is great against the lesser sides, not against Australia in the only series that really matters. If you cannot win the test match, make sure you don't lose. The first test gave the Aussies momentum and we are too soft to drop Anderson. Arguably, we haven't got the depth of bowling due to injury no way are we winning three tests on the trot against Australia. I wish.
Post by: paul_e on July 03, 2023, 10:01:23 PM
I don't disagree with the idea that there's room for improvement, that's clear, what I fundamentally disagree with is that we lost the game because of bazball when, in my opinion, we lost because of poor form in the attack and some poor shots. The same as why we have lost many matches in the past and why we'll lose many matches going forward. I'm worried that, at the first sign of a problem, people are very quickly turning on a play style that has improved us massively.
With respect Paul, you were cheering on the declaration in the first innings of the first test, when we all know, deep down, it was a poor decision.
As for the other issues, Foakes needs to keep wicket, he's a better keeper. There have been poor decisions all over the place, some poor shots, some poor bits of fielding etc. Bazball is great against the lesser sides, not against Australia in the only series that really matters. If you cannot win the test match, make sure you don't lose. The first test gave the Aussies momentum and we are too soft to drop Anderson. Arguably, we haven't got the depth of bowling due to injury no way are we winning three tests on the trot against Australia. I wish.
I wasn't cheering anything on, I said that it was a par score for the innings, that they clearly wanted to get a few overs in that evening and that the declaration wasn't the reason we didn't win. Which of those are you upset with?
The bold bit, that's exactly the attitude that England have had for decades, where we've pretty consistently under-achieved and let Australia dominate, why are you so desperate to return to what was a consistently failing brand of cricket after 2 matches? Have you forgotten the last ashes series where we held on by our fingers to only lose 4-0? Have you forgotten us losing to the west indies last easter?
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2023, 12:05:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 12:09:46 PM
Post by: Bully2345 on July 04, 2023, 12:15:15 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 04, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 04, 2023, 12:47:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2023, 12:48:17 PM
Apparently according to bbc the left field selection is move everyone up one spot and being Mo back in at 7 & Woakes in at 8
If Woakes is coming in for Jimmy then that's probably the right call. I'd prefer it if Bairstow was under a little more threat though.
Post by: simboy on July 04, 2023, 12:50:02 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 04, 2023, 12:59:06 PM
Apparently according to bbc the left field selection is move everyone up one spot and being Mo back in at 7 & Woakes in at 8
If Woakes is coming in for Jimmy then that's probably the right call. I'd prefer it if Bairstow was under a little more threat though.
I agree but with Pope being out can’t see them making that additional change
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2023, 01:04:50 PM
It's been said on here before, Brooke to 3 Bairstow to 5, Foakes at 8 Mo at 7 would be a sensible option.
The problem with that is that you'd probably need Stokes to bowl more overs than he seems capable of.
With the squad we have Brook to 3, Mo 7 and Woakes 8 gives us a bit more depth there and we don't lose anything in the field because Jimmy has been in terrible form. I'd consider Wood for Robinson as well who has taken wickets but has also had long spells of being far too easy for thme to play against.
Post by: Bully2345 on July 04, 2023, 01:20:55 PM
Also Foakes hasn't been picked and that won't change unless the selected wicketkeeper gets injured. He was unlucky not to be selected but he's enjoying that phenomenon of becoming a better player because he's not in the team
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2023, 01:39:32 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 04, 2023, 01:40:13 PM
I'd thought Wood for Anderson, Moeen Ali for Robinson before the Pope news. I'm just not sure putting Lawrence in will work, averaging 29 isn't exactly great, and the Aussies won't give anything away.
They have said they aren't bringing anyone else in to the squad and Lawrence is the only batter not playing.
Post by: Drummond on July 04, 2023, 01:40:57 PM
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
Yep, Tongue has to stay in the team too.
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2023, 01:53:37 PM
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
Yep, Tongue has to stay in the team too.
Yep, he has something about him and could be pleased with his contribution at Lord's.
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2023, 02:10:41 PM
Brook is a real talent but he'd have to significantly change the way he's approaching an innings to put him at three. I don't think they'll be moving him that high any time soon.
Also Foakes hasn't been picked and that won't change unless the selected wicketkeeper gets injured. He was unlucky not to be selected but he's enjoying that phenomenon of becoming a better player because he's not in the team
Not really, the problem of Bairstow not being an international standard wicket keeper is long established so he needs to be scoring big runs consistently to be worth his place, because he will cost us in the field (comparatively). Any time he looks short of form or makes notable mistakes behind the stumps his position will come into question and Foakes is pretty clearly the next cab off the rank.
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2023, 02:11:14 PM
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
Yep, Tongue has to stay in the team too.
Yep, he has something about him and could be pleased with his contribution at Lord's.
He was the most consistent threat for us.
Post by: Gareth on July 04, 2023, 02:17:05 PM
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
Yep, Tongue has to stay in the team too.
Yep, he has something about him and could be pleased with his contribution at Lord's.
He was the most consistent threat for us.
My only concern is that he hasn’t played test cricket before & definitely not as intense a calendar as these ashes without his body breaking down - if he is fit and still able to deliver his pace then absolute no brainer he plays
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 02:20:17 PM
Clearly they’re not doing this, but I think Foakes could bat 3 in terms of his technique.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 02:23:22 PM
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2023, 02:53:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 03:04:03 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 04, 2023, 03:38:09 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 04, 2023, 05:42:15 PM
Very good, nice to know we mingle with cricketing royalty. So how do you become a member; is it normal apply with one or two seconders and wait?By the way has anyone on here either applied to be on the waiting list or ever been close to becoming an MCC member?
I am a member, but most times I go I don't bother sitting in the pavilion.
I was there on Wednesday and Thursday and was the only one in the members queue in shorts and trainers.
Post by: Steve67 on July 04, 2023, 06:05:02 PM
I don't disagree with the idea that there's room for improvement, that's clear, what I fundamentally disagree with is that we lost the game because of bazball when, in my opinion, we lost because of poor form in the attack and some poor shots. The same as why we have lost many matches in the past and why we'll lose many matches going forward. I'm worried that, at the first sign of a problem, people are very quickly turning on a play style that has improved us massively.
With respect Paul, you were cheering on the declaration in the first innings of the first test, when we all know, deep down, it was a poor decision.
As for the other issues, Foakes needs to keep wicket, he's a better keeper. There have been poor decisions all over the place, some poor shots, some poor bits of fielding etc. Bazball is great against the lesser sides, not against Australia in the only series that really matters. If you cannot win the test match, make sure you don't lose. The first test gave the Aussies momentum and we are too soft to drop Anderson. Arguably, we haven't got the depth of bowling due to injury no way are we winning three tests on the trot against Australia. I wish.
I wasn't cheering anything on, I said that it was a par score for the innings, that they clearly wanted to get a few overs in that evening and that the declaration wasn't the reason we didn't win. Which of those are you upset with?
The bold bit, that's exactly the attitude that England have had for decades, where we've pretty consistently under-achieved and let Australia dominate, why are you so desperate to return to what was a consistently failing brand of cricket after 2 matches? Have you forgotten the last ashes series where we held on by our fingers to only lose 4-0? Have you forgotten us losing to the west indies last easter?
I really don’t care about other competitions, this is the ashes, we are at home, don’t lose tests against the Aussies. The past is the past, best left there. You applauded the declaration and offered up an opinion that this is all about Bazball but now you blame Basball for losing, which is it? I am confused by your response Paul as you’ve picked on the bold bit as the standout?
Post by: Gareth on July 04, 2023, 06:19:33 PM
Lets hope Robinson is fit enough to handle the workload and doesn’t start chucking 75mph pies down again
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 06:30:46 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 04, 2023, 06:33:03 PM
Sounds like they have gone with Mo, Wood and Woakes instead of Pope, Tongue and Jimmy with Brook at 3
Not a massive cricket fan but Mo, Wood might work better than Tongue.
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2023, 06:54:03 PM
So what that’d be Mo at 7? Not sure I like that.
I'm ok with that, Woakes is fine at 8 and Wood adds something with the bat as well. If Stokes could bowl anything more than part-time we could get another batsman in there but with him as he is we need a 4th seamer.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 07:18:42 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 04, 2023, 07:37:14 PM
Woakes is fine at 8, but I’m not convinced Mo is at 7 nowadays. At least it would give us some bowling flexibility.
Let’s hope Mo gets the 49 runs and 2 wickets he needs for 3000 test runs and 200 wickets this test
Post by: olaftab on July 04, 2023, 07:53:17 PM
Not on all strips. I think Tongue would be better on freshly laid surface.Sounds like they have gone with Mo, Wood and Woakes instead of Pope, Tongue and Jimmy with Brook at 3
Not a massive cricket fan but Mo, Wood might work better than Tongue.
Post by: Risso on July 04, 2023, 07:56:50 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 04, 2023, 08:11:19 PM
Seems a bit harsh on Tongue.
Yep, he bowled well enough to deserve the next test, but maybe it's a fitness thing as Gareth suggested above.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 08:23:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 04, 2023, 08:54:42 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 04, 2023, 09:36:48 PM
Sounds like they have gone with Mo, Wood and Woakes instead of Pope, Tongue and Jimmy with Brook at 3
Not a massive cricket fan but Mo, Wood might work better than Tongue.
Not on all strips. I think Tongue would be better on freshly laid surface.
If it's freshly laid you're probably right. Knew a proper cricket fan would know.
Post by: Bully2345 on July 05, 2023, 11:20:35 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 05, 2023, 12:03:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2023, 01:39:53 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2023, 02:51:13 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2023, 02:53:20 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 05, 2023, 03:01:29 PM
Core batting is weaker, but lower order is potentially much stronger which could be important.You know that never works. If your first 5 don't do it bottom 5 don't as there is far too much pressure. They have weakened the top order.
Post by: olaftab on July 05, 2023, 03:02:36 PM
Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2023, 03:09:19 PM
Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
Sorry Aftab, but that’s absolute nonsense. Tongue did well, but a couple of sub par games doesn’t change the fact that Robinson had had an exceptional Test career to date.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 05, 2023, 04:04:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 05, 2023, 04:29:28 PM
OK, so in 35 innings where he has bowled he has picked up 5 wickets on 3 occasions and 4 in 4 innings. That's 7 out 35 where as a strike bowler he was reasonably effective. That's ok but not exceptional.Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
Sorry Aftab, but that’s absolute nonsense. Tongue did well, but a couple of sub par games doesn’t change the fact that Robinson had had an exceptional Test career to date.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2023, 04:44:15 PM
Post by: Risso on July 05, 2023, 04:47:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 05, 2023, 04:53:51 PM
I get the point, but there’s some proper revisionism going on saying that Robinson is hopeless on the back of two sub par games. Also even in those games, he took wickets and bowled an exceptional spell after lunch in the second innings.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 05, 2023, 06:00:40 PM
Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
Sorry Aftab, but that’s absolute nonsense. Tongue did well, but a couple of sub par games doesn’t change the fact that Robinson had had an exceptional Test career to date.
Plus, as others have said, Tongue might not have been physically able to play two tests in such a short space of time.
The bowling order will be interesting. Hope Woakes gets a chance with the new ball rather than having a bit-part role.
Really looking forward to this test. Will probably come back to bite me massively, but they haven't really got away from the bat with us yet and just think that if we can bat first tomorrow and manage to get a decent first innings lead, then we can try and put them under pressure for the first time this series.
Will be interesting to see their spinner now that Lyon is out. He's only young, so again we might have to try and exert pressure on him. Knowing our luck though, he'll be a new Shame Warne who will torment us for the next decade!!
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 10:32:25 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2023, 10:36:32 AM
England will field. Wrong decision IMO. To win this match take control by batting first.
I disagree. The pitch is in favour of bowling first. England just have to bowl a hell of a lot better than the shitshow they served up 1st day at Lords.
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 10:37:11 AM
Post by: Paul.S on July 06, 2023, 10:55:59 AM
There must be a reason why Tongue isn’t in but this bowling attack looks decent. We’ll win this one.
Post by: German James on July 06, 2023, 11:07:46 AM
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 11:35:23 AM
Post by: LeeB on July 06, 2023, 11:35:51 AM
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 12:00:59 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 12:02:23 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2023, 12:12:23 PM
Christ, if we could just have Wood and Archer fully fit what a difference it would make
Yep, even if they were only fit enough to rotate through a series. To have them both in the same side would be great though.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 06, 2023, 12:33:10 PM
Post by: Jane on July 06, 2023, 12:34:03 PM
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 12:34:49 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2023, 12:37:40 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 12:43:11 PM
Delighted so far😊England will field. Wrong decision IMO. To win this match take control by batting first.
I disagree. The pitch is in favour of bowling first. England just have to bowl a hell of a lot better than the shitshow they served up 1st day at Lords.
Post by: OzVilla on July 06, 2023, 12:55:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 12:55:55 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 06, 2023, 12:56:52 PM
Post by: Jane on July 06, 2023, 12:57:39 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 06, 2023, 12:57:50 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 06, 2023, 01:00:59 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 06, 2023, 01:05:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2023, 01:06:02 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2023, 01:08:27 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 01:10:10 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 06, 2023, 01:13:49 PM
Great morning that could be even better if Bairstow didn't play like he keeps wicket in oven gloves.
Smashed a bowl of fried onions yesterday tried to land them with one oven glove, Baistow-esque
Post by: Villa Lew on July 06, 2023, 01:22:55 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 01:24:03 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 01:24:22 PM
Looking forward to hearing the welcome Carey and Cummins are gonna get, when they walk out to bat.
Great minds Lew.
Post by: Ads on July 06, 2023, 01:38:59 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 01:48:14 PM
Gareth Southgate on TMS trying to equate his England mindset with Bazball. Yeah, whatever, Horseface.
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 01:52:30 PM
Post by: German James on July 06, 2023, 01:52:46 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 06, 2023, 01:52:50 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 06, 2023, 01:56:47 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 02:00:33 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 06, 2023, 02:03:09 PM
Broad and Wood the pick so far.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 06, 2023, 02:04:35 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2023, 02:13:03 PM
Oh that's a horrible drop from Root, absolute sitter. Our catching has been atrocious.
Talked about taking our chances and that is a poor drop straight after lunch. Take that and we're into Carey and then the tail. Hope it is not too costly.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 06, 2023, 02:13:58 PM
Great morning that could be even better if Bairstow didn't play like he keeps wicket in oven gloves.
Smashed a bowl of fried onions yesterday tried to land them with one oven glove, Baistow-esque
I'm confident Bairstow is on the fried onions as well.
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2023, 02:21:11 PM
The Root drop is horrible as well.
I don't want to reopen old arguments but this is another example of why I think our work in the field/with the ball is the bigger problem in the series so far, the focus on bazball has detracted from those very real issues of us giving them too many chances.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2023, 02:32:44 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2023, 02:34:53 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 02:51:12 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 06, 2023, 03:02:05 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2023, 03:02:35 PM
Robinson walks off the field mid-over
Brilliant selection
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2023, 03:03:26 PM
Post by: German James on July 06, 2023, 03:04:58 PM
Post by: German James on July 06, 2023, 03:05:32 PM
Robinson walks off the field mid-overI know how he feels...
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on July 06, 2023, 03:06:34 PM
Pope out for the rest of the Ashes. Lawrence expected to be his replacement.
Sid?
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 03:09:14 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 03:10:02 PM
Robinson walks off the field mid-over
Brilliant selection
Should have been dropped with Tongue retaining his place. That and Bairstow's continued selection is a mistake.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 06, 2023, 03:10:07 PM
Robinson is infuriating.
His fitness and lack of effort to improve it since he came into the England set up are an embarrassment.
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 03:11:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2023, 03:16:05 PM
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 03:24:29 PM
Sigh.
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 03:33:06 PM
Marsh has batted really well.
Sigh.
He's smashing everybody all over the place.
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 03:35:17 PM
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 03:37:38 PM
This is a bit like Roundheads v Cavaliers.
Post by: Jane on July 06, 2023, 03:41:01 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2023, 03:41:53 PM
Once again England are snatching defeat from jaws of victory. How many more matches to lose before a proper wicky is selected?
Think we'll find that they will become very stubborn and the more clamour there is for Foakes to be in the side, the more resolute they will become in picking Bairstow.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 06, 2023, 03:43:50 PM
Once again England are snatching defeat from jaws of victory. How many more matches to lose before a proper wicky is selected?
Think we'll find that they will become very stubborn and the more clamour there is for Foakes to be in the side, the more resolute they will become in picking Bairstow.
I get that impression that proving the system/process in more important to Stokes & Baz than winning
It's fine of them to think that their system is the best, but they have to be flexible to some extent
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2023, 03:47:15 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 06, 2023, 03:53:47 PM
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 03:55:58 PM
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 04:10:01 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 06, 2023, 04:10:21 PM
EDIT.....but catches the next one
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 04:10:45 PM
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 04:12:14 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 06, 2023, 04:19:22 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2023, 04:19:55 PM
I don't agree with either of those. I reckon Bairstow is on very shaky ground and needs to score runs this match. I can see why they stuck with him though to bat in his home ground and with a whole bunch of righteous indignation at his back.
We'll see on the one. I can't see them dropping him to be honest.
Post by: paul_e on July 06, 2023, 04:23:25 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 06, 2023, 04:23:27 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 04:24:33 PM
Post by: Jane on July 06, 2023, 04:26:26 PM
That was quite funny from Root. Pure furious with the ball he was.
Oh it really was. Stokes telling him to calm down!
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 04:26:45 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 06, 2023, 04:36:55 PM
Woakes and Wood have made a massive difference to the attack, we look much more threatening and really should've been looking at cleaning them up for less than 200 if we'd been better in the field.
Yep, Root catches Marsh on 12 and it could have been very different. I don't blame them in the slightest, but there aren't going to be many tailenders who will fancy facing 90mph bowling for too long.
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 06, 2023, 04:42:07 PM
And then the England fan in me thinks, if one of our bowlers can do this to them, what are their bowlers going to do to us? Yikes.
Nice hearing Eric Gilchurch on TMS just now too, what a lovely guy.
Post by: manic-road on July 06, 2023, 04:46:05 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 04:46:23 PM
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 04:46:44 PM
I am going for 2 down.
Post by: Monty on July 06, 2023, 04:47:53 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 06, 2023, 04:48:43 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 06, 2023, 04:50:33 PM
How many down by the close?
I am going for 2 down.
4 at least, especially if Stitchell Marc finds some swing.
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 05:00:53 PM
And special mention for the two Ws
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 05:00:56 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 06, 2023, 05:01:45 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 05:06:34 PM
A pity Mark Wood couldn't bowl in the first two tests, really outstanding pace bowling. Very good by Chris Woakes as well. Just imagine what might have been if Jofra Archer was fit! Him and Wood would've blown the Aussies away. I said before our bowling attack has been at half strength at best.
Not to mention Leach who has been a miss as well.
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 05:14:37 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 06, 2023, 05:15:02 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 06, 2023, 05:19:53 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 05:21:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 05:22:42 PM
Post by: aev on July 06, 2023, 05:24:49 PM
Post by: Jane on July 06, 2023, 05:25:06 PM
Post by: Stu on July 06, 2023, 05:26:39 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 06, 2023, 05:31:49 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2023, 05:32:16 PM
Post by: Risso on July 06, 2023, 05:42:54 PM
Post by: Stu on July 06, 2023, 06:05:05 PM
Post by: Stu on July 06, 2023, 06:06:01 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2023, 06:06:56 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 06, 2023, 06:07:20 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 06, 2023, 06:10:59 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 06, 2023, 06:18:25 PM
I have no idea how crawley seems to get his eye "out" rather than in
Brilliant….& so so true!
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 06:37:53 PM
Post by: Jane on July 06, 2023, 06:41:35 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 06, 2023, 06:44:04 PM
Lose a couple of quick wickets and well be against it
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2023, 07:54:43 PM
His selection is looking pretty disastrous currently, but 150 from him tomorrow makes things look better.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 06, 2023, 08:31:16 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 06, 2023, 08:47:35 PM
We need Bairstow to turn up. He’s missing a lot of opportunities with the gloves.I wish!
His selection is looking pretty disastrous currently, but 150 from him tomorrow makes things look better.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 06, 2023, 10:40:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 06:16:58 AM
Post by: nigel on July 07, 2023, 07:59:17 AM
I've not been able to keep up with the game, so I'm watching the highlights now. That opening spell from Wood, just fucking wow! And Woakesy strikes as I type. Noice.
Would have been interesting had we been able to catch!!
Root has got a bit of wriggle room, but Bairstow owes us a massive innings with the bat
Post by: Risso on July 07, 2023, 08:55:44 AM
*Said more in the hope of my usually inaccurate predictions being miles out!
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2023, 09:03:19 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 10:00:12 AM
We need them to if we are to have any chance. I can't see any significant runs coming from Moeen down
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2023, 11:01:06 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 11:05:39 AM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2023, 11:06:29 AM
Post by: Beard82 on July 07, 2023, 11:08:27 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 11:09:08 AM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 07, 2023, 11:12:32 AM
Post by: aev on July 07, 2023, 11:15:00 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 11:24:11 AM
Post by: OzVilla on July 07, 2023, 11:26:13 AM
Post by: manic-road on July 07, 2023, 11:27:31 AM
Post by: aev on July 07, 2023, 11:28:23 AM
Post by: Paul.S on July 07, 2023, 11:28:55 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 11:31:14 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 11:37:52 AM
Fucking shambles. Bairstow has been a disaster of a selection, one useful innings with the bat and nothing else and just dreadful with the gloves. We’ll lose this game in the next hour if we’re not careful.
The game has gone Paul.
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 07, 2023, 11:42:20 AM
Fucking shambles. Bairstow has been a disaster of a selection, one useful innings with the bat and nothing else and just dreadful with the gloves. We’ll lose this game in the next hour if we’re not careful.Look at the difference in wicket keeping, Bairstow nowhere near good enough at this level.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 11:45:11 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2023, 11:53:56 AM
No Bazball to blame in this match either because we've played a much more traditional game and still gifted cheap wickets and struggled to build partnerships.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 12:04:15 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 07, 2023, 12:12:34 PM
You could argue that Root got himself out of form with his ludicrous running down the pitch to Lyon in the 2nd innings at Edgbaston and needlessly going after the short ball every single shot in the 1st innings at Lords. Bairstow also looked in good form in both his innings at Edgbaston before getting himself out twice in very poor ways.
Root is a top class batsman but I think he’s tried to adapt to a style that’s just not him. He can play his shots but is definitely not an all out attacking batsman. He’s confused himself.
Post by: aev on July 07, 2023, 12:17:02 PM
You could argue that Root got himself out of form with his ludicrous running down the pitch to Lyon in the 2nd innings at Edgbaston and needlessly going after the short ball every single shot in the 1st innings at Lords. Bairstow also looked in good form in both his innings at Edgbaston before getting himself out twice in very poor ways.
Root is a top class batsman but I think he’s tried to adapt to a style that’s just not him. He can play his shots but is definitely not an all out attacking batsman. He’s confused himself.
Agree - he is a nightmare to bowl at not because he crashes boundaries but because he scores quickly by rotating the strike. He is great at relieving pressure that bowlers try and put on.
Post by: aev on July 07, 2023, 12:18:04 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 12:23:00 PM
I think that's about right
Post by: TonyD on July 07, 2023, 12:23:30 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 12:25:23 PM
Bairstow’s swipe was pure farce.
The ball was poor and there to be attacked, but Bairstow couldn't be bothered to move his feet or try to hit it in an appropriate area for the line of the ball. He just threw the bat at it as if he were a no 11 having a slog and a giggle
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2023, 12:42:46 PM
One of the former Aussie players (can't recall which) I think got it spot on when he said that what England have been playing in this series is not "bazball" but actually "casball". They've been way too casual in everything they do.
I think that's about right
Yep, I agree, we've just been sloppy, that's been my point all along.
Post by: Monty on July 07, 2023, 12:44:14 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 12:45:44 PM
One of the former Aussie players (can't recall which) I think got it spot on when he said that what England have been playing in this series is not "bazball" but actually "casball". They've been way too casual in everything they do.
I think that's about right
Yep, I agree, we've just been sloppy, that's been my point all along.
It goes beyond sloppy though. There's almost been a "who gives a shit" attitude to a lot of our cricket in this series. Moeen Ali just doing that illustrates the point
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 12:50:49 PM
Top 4 got good deliveries, but Bairstow and Moeen have gone carelessly. Very much exactly what they - and we - did not need.
I wouldn't include Ducketts in that to be honest. His was a poor shot at a ball way too close to cut
Post by: Paul.S on July 07, 2023, 12:52:15 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 07, 2023, 12:55:07 PM
Post by: aev on July 07, 2023, 12:56:46 PM
Maybe the issue is we are picking too many players that can't or won't "dig in".
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 12:59:20 PM
Blimey, that shot that got Moeen Ali out was truly awful, as was the one that almost immediately preceeded it.
He'd mistimed the previous one so so badly, how on earth could he have the confidence to play it again straight away?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 01:00:36 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 07, 2023, 01:03:53 PM
I am pretty sure the point of bazball isn't to simply slog it around, but feel empowered to play how you want to play (ie clarity of thinking and commitment to playing the way you see it).
Maybe the issue is we are picking too many players that can't or won't "dig in".
Bazball feels to me like an excuse to get out how you want to and not worry about it.
Terrible morning for England. Show some gumption.
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2023, 01:17:38 PM
The idea is to take options away from the opposition. They want a spinner to come in and occupy an end for a whole session, so you smash him to the rope a few times and make them worry about how expensive it is to leave him in. They flood all their field to the off side and bowl a 5th/6th stump line, don't be afraid to step across and give yourself angles to hit on the leg side.
It's not working in this series because 1, Australia are a good side and 2. a lot of our players are struggling for form which is creating a lot of sloppy play. In this specific match momentum is playing a big part. Both sides know that Australia should've have made 200, our bowlers dominated and created good chances early in the innings for everyone in their top 6, by dropping some easy catches we gave them the momentum. 263 isn't a great score, but when you know you should've bene out for 100 less it feels like a win, and vice versa for the bowlers. That has carried into this innings and they've done the basics far better than we did. That's the difference between the sides here.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 01:17:56 PM
Post by: aev on July 07, 2023, 01:22:04 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 07, 2023, 01:36:19 PM
Post by: Nev on July 07, 2023, 01:36:21 PM
What looked like fine margins in the first test now look like big problems.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2023, 01:41:06 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2023, 01:41:45 PM
Ten off two balls from Wood off Starc at the start of the afternoon session
Make that 16 off 3
Post by: Monty on July 07, 2023, 01:49:21 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 01:53:47 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 01:55:49 PM
It's lazy cricket. It takes hard work, concentration, focus and stoic determination to stay at the crease for a long spell - look at Khawaja. Playing almost every delivery and then practically shrugging shoulders when you get out with an attitude of "well at least I tried" really isn't good enough. The accusations of carelessness and a sloppy approach are had to fend off when you look at both batting and catching, the concession of so many extras and the seemingly laissez faire response to setbacks.
What looked like fine margins in the first test now look like big problems.
It was perhaps fine margins in the first two tests (particularly Lords) because England have had much the better of the conditions and have won the toss on each occasion
Post by: LeeB on July 07, 2023, 01:56:31 PM
And gone. Somehow managing to concede a nigh-on three figure deficit here. Congratulations everybody.
Even with this piss poor batting display we'd have still had a lead if we could catch
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2023, 01:58:46 PM
Post by: Nev on July 07, 2023, 01:58:51 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 01:58:56 PM
And gone. Somehow managing to concede a nigh-on three figure deficit here. Congratulations everybody.
Even with this piss poor batting display we'd have still had a lead if we could catch
Yep. Our fielding has been that bad throughout this series you'd heavily criticise an under 8s team for it. Unacceptable, especially in an Ashes
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 01:59:55 PM
Every single run is a bonus here but it all feels so desperate. Anything near their total will be welcome just to keep the series alive.
They will just grind us into the dirt when they bat again.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 02:26:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 07, 2023, 02:34:28 PM
Massive knock from Stokes, the approach after lunch was the only way we could go from there.
Now we need them 2-3 down by tea.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 02:35:11 PM
There are a lot of players who owe massive performances to their captain in the second innings. We need to bowl them out cheap - no dropped catches and then Brook, Bairstow, Crawley in particular, and Root owe some runs.
Post by: Steve67 on July 07, 2023, 02:35:16 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2023, 02:35:42 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 07, 2023, 02:41:41 PM
And gone. Somehow managing to concede a nigh-on three figure deficit here. Congratulations everybody.
Even with this piss poor batting display we'd have still had a lead if we could catch
Yep and could have been a reasonable lead as well. We've blown another big opportunity I think. Might be wrong, but I think the Aussies will get a big score (or big enough) and it will be game over.
Hate to be defeatist and might be proved wrong, but can't see us winning a test in the series now, unless it is the last one as a consolation.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 02:43:39 PM
Need early wickets desperately or the Aussies will play the match situation and grind us into the dirt
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 02:51:55 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 02:53:07 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2023, 02:54:43 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 07, 2023, 03:13:02 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/vXmBtgc/warner.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vXmBtgc)
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2023, 03:36:27 PM
How is Mark Wood not taking the new ball?
I think they have waited for the lacquer to come off the Dukes ball, it swings more with the lacquer off.
Post by: Gareth on July 07, 2023, 03:38:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 03:42:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 03:53:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 04:04:45 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 07, 2023, 04:23:22 PM
Robinson having the back spasm has really created a problem.
Along with Stokes' injury.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 07, 2023, 04:34:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 04:46:22 PM
Post by: Rory on July 07, 2023, 04:46:39 PM
Moeen Ali is just a pisstake of a cricketer isn't he?
There is a bit of a cult around him which I don't fully understand, but he came out of retirement because he was told he was needed and bowled his finger to the bone in that first test.
A bit of respect is in order, in my opinion.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 07, 2023, 04:54:50 PM
Our batting and fielding have been woeful this series. Not passed 400 once, dropped catches all over the place, no balls. The general standards have been well below par.
Compared to what we're like in the field with a white ball, this has been village standard. I can see us losing 5-0 without getting battered once at the hands of an Australian side that's decent, useful, but not one of their greatest.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 04:54:59 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 07, 2023, 04:57:28 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 07, 2023, 04:58:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 07, 2023, 04:59:05 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 07, 2023, 05:01:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 05:04:11 PM
Come on some luck - get Smith quick please.
Post by: olaftab on July 07, 2023, 05:09:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 05:29:16 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 07, 2023, 05:41:25 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 07, 2023, 05:44:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 05:44:19 PM
Get Marsh out fast.
Post by: Steve67 on July 07, 2023, 06:28:39 PM
Post by: nigel on July 07, 2023, 06:36:51 PM
Given his ongoing ineptitude with bat and gloves, it's a bit rich Bairstow giving stick to Smith on his dismissal, he may be better to focus on his own game.
Was just about to post the same.
When he actually held a catch to get Kawaja out he was giving it large.
The way he’s playing I’d rather recall Alan Knott
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 06:54:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 07, 2023, 07:31:36 PM
Given his ongoing ineptitude with bat and gloves, it's a bit rich Bairstow giving stick to Smith on his dismissal, he may be better to focus on his own game.
Was just about to post the same.
When he actually held a catch to get Kawaja out he was giving it large.
The way he’s playing I’d rather recall Alan Knott
I get that but I also want us to keep getting under their skin. If one of the best batsmen in the world can react to a gentle bit of chat then we have them under pressure. We need to capitalise though!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 07, 2023, 09:30:19 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 07, 2023, 11:34:47 PM
Be tempted to put Stokes in at number 3 or 4.
And let him rip.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 08, 2023, 12:54:39 AM
To be honest at a couple of points today we looked gone, but we’re still in it. Need a big morning session to try and knock them over for 220 (lead) or less.
Depends on the pitch I suppose, but I still think we're in it if we are left 275 to chase. Would be a big ask, but could be possible.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 08, 2023, 01:03:52 AM
Our batting and fielding have been woeful this series. Not passed 400 once, dropped catches all over the place, no balls. The general standards have been well below par.
Compared to what we're like in the field with a white ball, this has been village standard. I can see us losing 5-0 without getting battered once at the hands of an Australian side that's decent, useful, but not one of their greatest.
Their bowling attack is one of the best this century I'd say. Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are top quality and although they are now injured, Lyon and Green just finish it off. Boland has been a good find for them, though isn't quite the same level as the others.
What does for us a little bit is that we don't have home conditions which negate them like they do in other parts of the world. With the bowling conditions we have and with a Dukes ball, they are arguably even more of a threat. Cummins has been especially good so far.
Might be wrong and hope I am, but I don't see us beating them in a series while those three in particular are around and in the same line-up.
Post by: Rory on July 08, 2023, 03:50:54 AM
To be honest at a couple of points today we looked gone, but we’re still in it. Need a big morning session to try and knock them over for 220 (lead) or less.
Depends on the pitch I suppose, but I still think we're in it if we are left 275 to chase. Would be a big ask, but could be possible.
In the absence of their top spinner, we should be confident chasing anything less than 300, in my opinion.
Our numbers 7 - 10 have seven test centuries between them, so it's not like we have a long tail.
Assuming we can bowl well in the morning, get them all out around lunch, the situation is set up perfectly for 'Bazball'. A seemingly difficult chase by historical standards, except we take the bull by the horns, score quickly initially, panic them into defensive fields BUT then use our heads, pick up ones and twos, accumulate runs, followed by a counter attack from a strong tail if needed.
I still back us, but if we can't find a way to win this one, I reckon this Aus team (after 22 years without a series win in England) have the quality, motivation and ruthlessness to push for a 5-0.
We've grown accustomed to being embarrassed over there, but with all the good will in the world, losing by such a scoreline here would be entirely unacceptable.
We really need to find our fighting spirit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 10:56:58 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 08, 2023, 12:07:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 08, 2023, 12:15:29 PM
I still back us, but if we can't find a way to win this one, I reckon this Aus team (after 22 years without a series win in England) have the quality, motivation and ruthlessness to push for a 5-0.Rory this is the thing.
We've grown accustomed to being embarrassed over there, but with all the good will in the world, losing by such a scoreline here would be entirely unacceptable.
We really need to find our fighting spirit.
It's cringingly embarrassing when you're in Melbourne or Sydney. There is no rest as Aussies are constantly in your ear with insults. It would be a total disaster from a England cricket fan point of view to get thrashed here at home as well.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 04:43:43 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2023, 04:58:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:04:04 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:08:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 08, 2023, 05:08:38 PM
Pitch it up!
The moment that one ball from Woakes swung round a corner (admittedly after pitching), the plan should have been changed.
However, England don’t do flexible any more
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:11:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:13:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:14:12 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 08, 2023, 05:17:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:23:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:32:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:32:55 PM
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2023, 05:36:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:38:08 PM
Post by: Rory on July 08, 2023, 05:44:14 PM
You can always rely on a Villa fan.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Woakes is possibly the most underrated player of his generation. Averages 28 with the bat, 30 with the ball, good fielder, on all three boards at Lord's, Villa fan (and like all Villa fans he's good looking).
Post by: Beard82 on July 08, 2023, 05:50:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:52:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:55:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 05:59:41 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 08, 2023, 06:02:53 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2023, 06:04:25 PM
Need to give these tailenders some treatment now, should we happen rap a couple of the hands so be it
Send a few beamers down
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2023, 06:06:27 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 08, 2023, 06:07:22 PM
Post by: Jane on July 08, 2023, 06:07:32 PM
You can always rely on a Villa fan.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Woakes is possibly the most underrated player of his generation. Averages 28 with the bat, 30 with the ball, good fielder, on all three boards at Lord's, Villa fan (and like all Villa fans he's good looking).
He was an Honorary Graduate at UOB in December, & he was genuinely the nicest bloke ever. He can do no wrong in my eyes!
Post by: Jane on July 08, 2023, 06:09:33 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2023, 06:10:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 06:10:52 PM
Post by: Jane on July 08, 2023, 06:11:12 PM
He's the absolute embodiment of the man you'd be happy for your daughter to bring home
His whole family were adorable!!
Post by: Beard82 on July 08, 2023, 06:13:43 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 08, 2023, 06:14:56 PM
Post by: Rory on July 08, 2023, 06:22:35 PM
You can always rely on a Villa fan.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Woakes is possibly the most underrated player of his generation. Averages 28 with the bat, 30 with the ball, good fielder, on all three boards at Lord's, Villa fan (and like all Villa fans he's good looking).
He was an Honorary Graduate at UOB in December, & he was genuinely the nicest bloke ever. He can do no wrong in my eyes!
Glad to hear it, Jane 🙂
Post by: Gareth on July 08, 2023, 06:24:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 06:25:39 PM
Post by: Rory on July 08, 2023, 06:26:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 06:31:13 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 08, 2023, 06:33:14 PM
Post by: Jane on July 08, 2023, 06:35:41 PM
Don’t like this.
Yep.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 06:37:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 06:46:44 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 08, 2023, 06:52:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 06:53:20 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 08, 2023, 07:06:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 07:06:46 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 08, 2023, 07:07:19 PM
8 overs, I’m going 9-3 at the close…Crawley to be out obvjust after playing a beautiful cover drive
Post by: olaftab on July 08, 2023, 07:07:27 PM
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2023, 07:07:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 07:35:56 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 08, 2023, 07:44:05 PM
Brilliant from the two openers. If we can avoid early wickets tomorrow it’s there for the taking
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 07:45:34 PM
Post by: Risso on July 08, 2023, 07:56:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 08:37:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 08, 2023, 10:11:20 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 12:39:59 AM
Yep we’ve got a real chance now. Just need to take it this time.
Yep. Just feel the opening partnership is key tomorrow. Big ask, but if they can get us up around a hundred in quickish time, it will start to look doable. Think one of the senior players should maybe step up and go in at three. If say Moeen Ali were to go in at 3 and make a quick 20 or 30, it would help take a chunk out of the total.
Should be another great day of cricket tomorrow.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2023, 07:50:27 AM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 11:11:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 11:21:04 AM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 11:21:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 11:21:50 AM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 11:24:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 11:38:28 AM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 11:43:29 AM
As in worry about his ability to play 3 or an injury concern?
Good point. I thought they meant an injury, but probably is because he looked like a rabbit on the M6.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2023, 11:44:28 AM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 11:44:33 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 11:44:37 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
As in worry about his ability to play 3 or an injury concern?
Good point. I thought they meant an injury, but probably is because he looked like a rabbit on the M6.
That's what Vaughan heard from his sources
Post by: Pete3206 on July 09, 2023, 11:45:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 11:45:18 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 09, 2023, 11:47:34 AM
Ridiculous putting him in at 3. Ho humYep made no sense at all.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 11:48:54 AM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 12:16:10 PM
Danger time for Crawley now.
Root hasn't looked comfortable so far.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 12:18:01 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 12:18:24 PM
Crawley every bloody time - 44 is not enough.
As predictable as the sun coming up.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 12:19:06 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on July 09, 2023, 12:19:26 PM
Crawley every bloody time - 44 is not enough.
The second they mentioned he was on 44, in the bowler’s run-up, I thought ‘that’s as many as he usually gets’.
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 12:20:40 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 12:22:56 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 09, 2023, 12:23:10 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 09, 2023, 12:55:14 PM
Post by: dave shelley on July 09, 2023, 12:56:46 PM
Bet we'll lose another wicket before lunch... ::)
Stop that!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 01:00:31 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 09, 2023, 01:00:42 PM
Sorry! I just hate being proved right!Bet we'll lose another wicket before lunch... ::)
Stop that!
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 01:01:14 PM
Bet we'll lose another wicket before lunch... ::)
That was on you! ;)
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 01:01:21 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 01:01:55 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 09, 2023, 01:02:06 PM
Post by: Monty on July 09, 2023, 01:02:28 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 09, 2023, 01:04:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 01:04:24 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 09, 2023, 01:05:27 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 01:06:26 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 01:07:14 PM
Root has been piss poor the last two games. It’s like that second innings dismissal in the first Test has scrambled his thinking.
That was a massive moment in us losing the first test too. He was batting beautifully and had them rattled. It was very very poor decision making from such a good player.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 01:11:26 PM
Post by: Monty on July 09, 2023, 01:12:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 01:13:18 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 01:17:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 01:40:00 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 09, 2023, 01:49:27 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 09, 2023, 02:02:17 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 02:07:13 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 02:08:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 02:08:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 02:09:23 PM
Post by: Paul.S on July 09, 2023, 02:10:07 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 09, 2023, 02:10:41 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 09, 2023, 02:11:06 PM
Post by: Monty on July 09, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
Just unbelievable.
Post by: German James on July 09, 2023, 02:11:19 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 02:15:57 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 09, 2023, 02:18:23 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 09, 2023, 02:18:31 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 02:18:32 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 09, 2023, 02:18:50 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 09, 2023, 02:19:05 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 09, 2023, 02:19:27 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 09, 2023, 02:19:31 PM
Useless fat bastard.he is a bit too chunky to keep wicket
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 02:19:46 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 02:20:25 PM
Useless fat bastard.Sorry but he's got to go now.
Post by: German James on July 09, 2023, 02:20:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 02:21:08 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 02:21:09 PM
That's why he doesn't!Useless fat bastard.he is a bit too chunky to keep wicket
Post by: Paul.S on July 09, 2023, 02:21:22 PM
Foakes has to start in what will be 2 meaningless tests to follow.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2023, 02:21:47 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 09, 2023, 02:22:31 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 02:23:46 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 02:24:31 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 02:25:12 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 02:28:24 PM
His attitude is fucking pathetic too. He was more interested in making an exaggerated point of grounding his bat at the end of an over than actually trying to build an innings.
Trying to wind up Smith was a bit sad too. Not a good luck when you've been dismal nearly all series.
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 02:30:13 PM
Post by: German James on July 09, 2023, 02:31:17 PM
Bairstow has lacked confidence. Both his keeping and batting have argueably cost us this series.Agree with the second bit, but he's come across as too sloppy and cocky; not lacking in confidence.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 02:33:56 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 02:34:30 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 02:36:06 PM
All players run into poor form. It's Bairstows attitude and not even being bothered to apply himself that gratesExpected more from him on his home ground.
Post by: German James on July 09, 2023, 02:37:54 PM
All players run into poor form. It's Bairstows attitude and not even being bothered to apply himself that gratesTurning up as bulky as he is was hardly the best start.
Post by: Paul.S on July 09, 2023, 02:40:31 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 02:42:52 PM
I’ve no issue with Bairstow’s bullish attitude but he’s had a disastrous Ashes. He can’t carry on and I also think Crawley has been very lucky to have had such a long run.Agreed about Crawley.
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 03:08:35 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 03:10:37 PM
I just can not sit down and watch this. Pacing around the garden picking up “litter” that’s not there😟I'm pacing the living room. LOL
Post by: dave shelley on July 09, 2023, 03:12:30 PM
I just can not sit down and watch this. Pacing around the garden picking up “litter” that’s not there😟
Likewise Aftab, then I come in put the Grand Prix on look in here see that there is a post on the cricket thread, think there's been another wicket gone, click on here because I can't help myself and find it's you justifying my nerves. :)
Post by: Villa Lew on July 09, 2023, 03:16:16 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 03:16:54 PM
Someone please tell me that the last 4 will get 30 runs?
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 03:19:25 PM
Post by: German James on July 09, 2023, 03:20:58 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 03:22:43 PM
Post by: dave shelley on July 09, 2023, 03:22:55 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 03:23:36 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 09, 2023, 03:25:39 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 03:26:16 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 03:26:24 PM
Would be justice if these two bring it home as it's because of them we have a chance
A good point well made Mr B.
Neither of them are mugs, just nurdle it down fellas.
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 03:29:27 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 03:31:22 PM
Would be justice if these two bring it home as it's because of them we have a chance100% they have both come back when needed and made a hell of a difference.
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 03:33:02 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 03:35:30 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2023, 03:36:43 PM
Would be justice if these two bring it home as it's because of them we have a chance
A good point well made Mr B.
Neither of them are mugs, just nurdle it down fellas.
I agree with the sentiment but there was no chance of Wood nurdling. He's the definitive lower order slogger and knows no other way.
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 03:37:34 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 09, 2023, 03:37:55 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2023, 03:38:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2023, 03:38:28 PM
Post by: dave shelley on July 09, 2023, 03:38:58 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 03:38:59 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 09, 2023, 03:39:32 PM
Post by: beness on July 09, 2023, 03:39:37 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 03:40:38 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 09, 2023, 03:40:44 PM
Post by: Monty on July 09, 2023, 03:41:28 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 03:41:38 PM
Post by: ventnorVillain on July 09, 2023, 03:42:11 PM
Post by: dave shelley on July 09, 2023, 03:43:32 PM
Post by: nigel on July 09, 2023, 03:43:37 PM
1st inns 300 2nd inns 200
Over the two innings he faced 16 balls and got 40 runs
Post by: Gareth on July 09, 2023, 03:43:43 PM
Post by: Jane on July 09, 2023, 03:44:29 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 09, 2023, 03:50:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 03:51:25 PM
They’ve got to look at Foakes for the next game.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 09, 2023, 03:53:10 PM
Brook, Woakes, and Wood did fantastically.
They’ve got to look at Foakes for the next game.
That's the big decision to be made.
Post by: KevinGage on July 09, 2023, 03:53:39 PM
Australia fielded well (up until Carey's brainfart near the end) to keep the pressure on.
It all starts with the wicketkeeper. If he's dropping catches left right and centre it spreads to the other fielders - as we have seen with England this series.
If they're intent on keeping Bairstow for his batting, maybe boost him up to three and Brook back in the middle order and get Foakes back in. Or Curran to come in for Robinson. Brings runs down the lower order and different angles to exploit as a leftie.
Post by: Beard82 on July 09, 2023, 03:56:45 PM
Brilliant - I have tickets for days 3 and 4 at the oval - so my dream finale is still on!!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 04:01:11 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 09, 2023, 04:02:55 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on July 09, 2023, 04:07:07 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 09, 2023, 04:09:18 PM
But barring injury Broad has to stay in for at least the next one.
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2023, 04:10:47 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 09, 2023, 04:12:37 PM
I wouldn't be dropping Broad.
Think it would be crazy to rest Broad now after playing him in back to backs. He's bowled really well all series
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 04:21:43 PM
Agnew and Tuffers said that didn’t work but did work because it moved Brook to 5, and took the pressure off him.
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 04:25:03 PM
I'd hope Anderson plays for Lancs in their championship game, if not or if he struggles then I don't see why you'd bring him back. Either way Bairstow and Robinson out for Foakes and Jimmy/Tongue is the only change i'd be making. I'd probably stick with Mo at 3 though, I know it didn't work but I think the balance of the middle order looks better with him there.Good shout Paul.
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 04:26:16 PM
In some ways Mo going to 3 helped win that game. Brook doesn’t play that knock if he come in at 3.Exactly what Agnew and Tufnell said as I wrote in my other post.
Post by: Paul.S on July 09, 2023, 04:31:40 PM
Woaksey to the rescue and hats off to Brook who managed to stop trying to hit every ball for 6. Still think Bairstow is that out of sorts Foakes should come in.
Test cricket is alive and well and still remains the best format of the game.
Post by: Gareth on July 09, 2023, 04:47:35 PM
Quite a leap to jump in 2nd innings like that
Post by: ChicagoLion on July 09, 2023, 04:50:06 PM
I have more than a sneaking suspicion he will though.
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 05:09:30 PM
I'd hope Anderson plays for Lancs in their championship game, if not or if he struggles then I don't see why you'd bring him back. Either way Bairstow and Robinson out for Foakes and Jimmy/Tongue is the only change i'd be making. I'd probably stick with Mo at 3 though, I know it didn't work but I think the balance of the middle order looks better with him there.
I guess the conditions might suit him, and with Wood as the main danger man now, you wouldn't need to over bowl Anderson like we possibly have. I'd bring Tongue back in place of Robinson though. Wood, Woakes, Broad and Tongue plus Mo is a great looking bowling unit. Foakes in for Bairstow, obvs.
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 05:18:46 PM
I can not see any justification for Bairstow staying in the team.I don't think even the barmy army members wives will save him this time.
I have more than a sneaking suspicion he will though.
He was given a chance in this match to maybe react to his stumping and stick it up them but he failed miserably with both jobs.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2023, 05:21:22 PM
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 05:23:17 PM
You could see the difference that Wood’s pace made. I’d have Tongue in for Robinson so we can unleash them in tandem. Foakes has to play but I suspect he’s not going to dislodge Bairstow.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
I'd say until this test the bowling as well, although not as big a difference as the fielding
Post by: Villan For Life on July 09, 2023, 05:54:28 PM
You could see the difference that Wood’s pace made. I’d have Tongue in for Robinson so we can unleash them in tandem. Foakes has to play but I suspect he’s not going to dislodge Bairstow.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
I'd say until this test the bowling as well, although not as big a difference as the fielding
Their attack is better than ours but not by much. We’ve comfortably bowled them out across six innings apart from the last hour on day five at Edgbaston we have matched them.
Post by: Gareth on July 09, 2023, 06:00:56 PM
You could see the difference that Wood’s pace made. I’d have Tongue in for Robinson so we can unleash them in tandem. Foakes has to play but I suspect he’s not going to dislodge Bairstow.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
I'd say until this test the bowling as well, although not as big a difference as the fielding
Their attack is better than ours but not by much. We’ve comfortably bowled them out across six innings apart from the last hour on day five at Edgbaston we have matched them.
Without Lyon I think we have the better pot of bowlers….it’s the catching and batting that needs to come up to the standard of the bowling….
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 06:19:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 06:22:07 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 09, 2023, 06:39:29 PM
Definitely get Foakes in for Bairstow. The latter see.s to have no confidence.
We could use a spinner.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 06:41:08 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 09, 2023, 06:43:57 PM
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
It's odd as well, considering McCullum's limited overs success and the makeup of this side - which is effectively a ODI side that plays a bit of Test cricket now and again.
They should be razor sharp in the field.
Post by: Monty on July 09, 2023, 06:50:41 PM
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 06:53:02 PM
Bairstow will always get 2 or 3 more chances than anyone else. Which is all on the off-chance that he'll do That Thing and it'll all be worth it. Which is possibly justifiable - just must be incredibly annoying if you're Ben Foakes!
He's surely used up his 9 lives now though? I mean, he's still a good player, but he needs to not be keeping wicket, and he also very much needs to lose a few pounds. It's not darts mate.
Post by: Monty on July 09, 2023, 07:08:43 PM
Bairstow will always get 2 or 3 more chances than anyone else. Which is all on the off-chance that he'll do That Thing and it'll all be worth it. Which is possibly justifiable - just must be incredibly annoying if you're Ben Foakes!
He's surely used up his 9 lives now though? I mean, he's still a good player, but he needs to not be keeping wicket, and he also very much needs to lose a few pounds. It's not darts mate.
You'd think that would be step one. A decent fudge to help him 'concentrate on his batting' etc. The conundrum is, who do you drop for Foakes? I suppose Crawley, but I don't think they're about to do that.
Post by: Beard82 on July 09, 2023, 07:15:04 PM
Cant see it happening, only way I see it is if they leave a bowler out, maybe don't bring Anderson back in, or rest Broad - but still don't see it.Bairstow will always get 2 or 3 more chances than anyone else. Which is all on the off-chance that he'll do That Thing and it'll all be worth it. Which is possibly justifiable - just must be incredibly annoying if you're Ben Foakes!
He's surely used up his 9 lives now though? I mean, he's still a good player, but he needs to not be keeping wicket, and he also very much needs to lose a few pounds. It's not darts mate.
You'd think that would be step one. A decent fudge to help him 'concentrate on his batting' etc. The conundrum is, who do you drop for Foakes? I suppose Crawley, but I don't think they're about to do that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 07:17:36 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 09, 2023, 07:21:53 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 09, 2023, 08:20:28 PM
Quote
England are a more complete team after switch made easier by Pope injury
As one of five bowlers, rather than four, pace of Wood offers the variety, and Woakes benefits from that
In 2018, England had a sequence of eight wins in nine matches, across home and away series.
In several of these victories, Ben Stokes’s role was different. He batted higher in the order (sometimes as high as No 3 or 4) and was one of six (not five) bowlers, with little or no expectation that he would bowl a significant number of overs. His bowling was viewed as a bonus. The all-rounder position was filled by one or sometimes two of Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali and Sam Curran.
The team structure looked like this: six batsmen (one of whom was Stokes), then five frontline bowlers, with enough batting ability across those five bowlers to make a significant collective contribution to the batting tally. England also used this team structure in the win against Australia in the fifth Test at the Oval in 2019, the victory over West Indies in the third Test in 2020, and in the first Test win against Pakistan in the same summer.
Sometimes, England had full volition and preferred this structure on principle (such as in the series win in Sri Lanka). In other instances, the hand was slightly forced by Stokes being hampered by injury.
All taken together, it ended up being an intriguing pattern, even allowing for a small sample size and the ever-present possibility of luck and coincidence. Across the three years when I was national selector, I don’t think England lost a Test match when Stokes played as a batsman or as one of six bowlers.
That formation, of course, is also the team structure for this Test match against Australia at Headingley. Stokes, after a spike in his bowling work load at Lord’s, was deemed not fit to play in the allrounder role, leading England to tweak the structure as well as the players.
Effectively, Woakes and Moeen Ali have come in for James Anderson and Ollie Pope (two all-round cricketers coming in for two specialists), with Mark Wood a more like-for-like swap for Josh Tongue. The switch in team formation was made easier by Pope being ruled out by injury, hence avoiding the need for a tough decision about which batsman to leave out.
A personal (and minority) view follows: on decent pitches, I think the present team formation looks better for a number of reasons.
First, the bowling has more variety. When England have access to genuine pace, as they do at Headingley through Wood, they look a far more complete team. As one of five bowlers, it’s easier to fit in a truly fast bowler (many of whom find high workload difficult) because there is less expectation that they will have to bang out overs.
The same principle applies to selecting a spinner — Ali for now, with Rehan Ahmed well placed in the future. With five bowlers to share the load, there is less anxiety about the spinner being required to bowl a high volume of overs in the first innings.
Overall, instead of the term “X-factor” — which pushes the ambition to possess “something different” onto one single player — a more useful concept is aspiring to a “varied attack” across the whole bowling unit. Variety takes many forms: different speeds, different angles, different release points. Among the most useful graphics of recent years emerged from Sky’s coverage of the England v New Zealand Test at Lord’s in 2021. England’s deliveries were mostly bowled from a similar release position on the crease, with New Zealand’s spread far more widely.
When batsmen are required to make adjustments for differing types of bowlers, they are more likely to make mistakes — to the benefit of the whole bowling unit.
Woakes has put in a strong bowling performance on his return here at Headingley. His record in England is exceptional — but he looks even better when Wood is bowling rockets as part of the same attack.
Except in seam-friendly conditions, England look less threatening when they select three right-hand fast-medium bowlers and a right-arm off spinner. Further, playing five bowlers plus Stokes is more sustainable. England know where they stand, over both the short and the medium term. One long bowl by the captain won’t force a selection headache around the corner.
Above all, this team formation plays to one of England’s strengths, which is having a high number of effective all-round cricketers. Ali has five Test hundreds. Woakes debuted as a No 6 batsman and has a Test hundred against India as a No 7. Curran, waiting in the wings to perform a similar role, has swung several Tests with both bat and ball.
In this particular match-up versus Australia, England have more bowling depth (a privilege they leaned on when Ollie Robinson was injured mid-match). And despite the extra bowler, England’s lower order shouldn’t be underestimated with the bat. In the first innings, Australia were 240 for five, then all out for 263.
In contrast, England were 87 for five and all out 237 — exactly the pattern of lower-order resistance that helped England to win many of those Tests in 2018.
There are two important riders to these arguments. First, the logic only applies to some groups of players. The West Indies team of the 1980s (just four quicks) or the Australia of the 1990s/2000s (three quicks and Shane Warne) had their own, different solutions. In the future, England may have different types of players in the squad, requiring distinct selection principles. Second, of course, though England have selected well here, there is no guarantee that they will win the Test. But over the long term it pushes the odds more in England’s favour.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 09, 2023, 08:22:19 PM
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
It's odd as well, considering McCullum's limited overs success and the makeup of this side - which is effectively a ODI side that plays a bit of Test cricket now and again.
They should be razor sharp in the field.
You’d think that Colly would be drilling the side on fielding
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 08:26:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 08:28:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 08:50:37 PM
Post by: Rory on July 09, 2023, 08:55:02 PM
As an aside Starc has been outstanding for Aus. Previously I always thought he was a bit erratic, but he’s been excellent.
The ball to Mo was a beauty.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 09:21:23 PM
Interesting article from former selector Ed Smith (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-look-a-more-complete-team-after-formation-switch-made-easier-by-pope-absence-t33slwx20) in the Times yesterday.QuoteEngland are a more complete team after switch made easier by Pope injury
As one of five bowlers, rather than four, pace of Wood offers the variety, and Woakes benefits from that
In 2018, England had a sequence of eight wins in nine matches, across home and away series.
In several of these victories, Ben Stokes’s role was different. He batted higher in the order (sometimes as high as No 3 or 4) and was one of six (not five) bowlers, with little or no expectation that he would bowl a significant number of overs. His bowling was viewed as a bonus. The all-rounder position was filled by one or sometimes two of Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali and Sam Curran.
The team structure looked like this: six batsmen (one of whom was Stokes), then five frontline bowlers, with enough batting ability across those five bowlers to make a significant collective contribution to the batting tally. England also used this team structure in the win against Australia in the fifth Test at the Oval in 2019, the victory over West Indies in the third Test in 2020, and in the first Test win against Pakistan in the same summer.
Sometimes, England had full volition and preferred this structure on principle (such as in the series win in Sri Lanka). In other instances, the hand was slightly forced by Stokes being hampered by injury.
All taken together, it ended up being an intriguing pattern, even allowing for a small sample size and the ever-present possibility of luck and coincidence. Across the three years when I was national selector, I don’t think England lost a Test match when Stokes played as a batsman or as one of six bowlers.
That formation, of course, is also the team structure for this Test match against Australia at Headingley. Stokes, after a spike in his bowling work load at Lord’s, was deemed not fit to play in the allrounder role, leading England to tweak the structure as well as the players.
Effectively, Woakes and Moeen Ali have come in for James Anderson and Ollie Pope (two all-round cricketers coming in for two specialists), with Mark Wood a more like-for-like swap for Josh Tongue. The switch in team formation was made easier by Pope being ruled out by injury, hence avoiding the need for a tough decision about which batsman to leave out.
A personal (and minority) view follows: on decent pitches, I think the present team formation looks better for a number of reasons.
First, the bowling has more variety. When England have access to genuine pace, as they do at Headingley through Wood, they look a far more complete team. As one of five bowlers, it’s easier to fit in a truly fast bowler (many of whom find high workload difficult) because there is less expectation that they will have to bang out overs.
The same principle applies to selecting a spinner — Ali for now, with Rehan Ahmed well placed in the future. With five bowlers to share the load, there is less anxiety about the spinner being required to bowl a high volume of overs in the first innings.
Overall, instead of the term “X-factor” — which pushes the ambition to possess “something different” onto one single player — a more useful concept is aspiring to a “varied attack” across the whole bowling unit. Variety takes many forms: different speeds, different angles, different release points. Among the most useful graphics of recent years emerged from Sky’s coverage of the England v New Zealand Test at Lord’s in 2021. England’s deliveries were mostly bowled from a similar release position on the crease, with New Zealand’s spread far more widely.
When batsmen are required to make adjustments for differing types of bowlers, they are more likely to make mistakes — to the benefit of the whole bowling unit.
Woakes has put in a strong bowling performance on his return here at Headingley. His record in England is exceptional — but he looks even better when Wood is bowling rockets as part of the same attack.
Except in seam-friendly conditions, England look less threatening when they select three right-hand fast-medium bowlers and a right-arm off spinner. Further, playing five bowlers plus Stokes is more sustainable. England know where they stand, over both the short and the medium term. One long bowl by the captain won’t force a selection headache around the corner.
Above all, this team formation plays to one of England’s strengths, which is having a high number of effective all-round cricketers. Ali has five Test hundreds. Woakes debuted as a No 6 batsman and has a Test hundred against India as a No 7. Curran, waiting in the wings to perform a similar role, has swung several Tests with both bat and ball.
In this particular match-up versus Australia, England have more bowling depth (a privilege they leaned on when Ollie Robinson was injured mid-match). And despite the extra bowler, England’s lower order shouldn’t be underestimated with the bat. In the first innings, Australia were 240 for five, then all out for 263.
In contrast, England were 87 for five and all out 237 — exactly the pattern of lower-order resistance that helped England to win many of those Tests in 2018.
There are two important riders to these arguments. First, the logic only applies to some groups of players. The West Indies team of the 1980s (just four quicks) or the Australia of the 1990s/2000s (three quicks and Shane Warne) had their own, different solutions. In the future, England may have different types of players in the squad, requiring distinct selection principles. Second, of course, though England have selected well here, there is no guarantee that they will win the Test. But over the long term it pushes the odds more in England’s favour.
Still enjoying the win from earlier, but there are going to be some major questions over the next week or so regarding selection for what is another must-win game at Old Trafford. Barring injury, Wood and Woakes must surely be in, so my line up as it stands would look like:
Crawley, Duckett, TBC, Root, Brook, Stokes, TBC, Woakes, Wood, TBC, TBC.
Didn't work out today, but if we are going to play a spinner rather than just have Root filling in, then Ali could bat 3 and that would mean we could also play four seamers.
Bairstow looks all over the place at the moment and Foakes surely has to come in now and bat at 7. I suppose one other option though would be to keep Bairstow in the side just as a batsman and bat him or Stokes at 3, with Foakes coming in to keep.
The big call will be the other two seamer positions (if we go with the four) and I suppose it will heavily depend on the pitch at Old Trafford. As mentioned above, Woakes and Wood surely must start if they are fit, then it might be two from four of Robinson (if fit), Broad, Tongue and Anderson.
Post by: Risso on July 09, 2023, 09:26:27 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2023, 09:29:12 PM
No Ashes tests in the North in 2027, ridiculous.
Agreed, quite why the northern and midlands grounds can be rotated but Lords and Oval are guaranteed matches I don't know but it's bullshit and needs to be changed, in particular the whole 'home of cricket' thing needs to be left in the past.
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 09, 2023, 09:29:14 PM
No Ashes tests in the North in 2027, ridiculous.
I think they should alternate each Ashes series. So one time 2 tests in North, 2 in Midlands and 1 in London. Next time 2 Oop North, 1 Midlands, 2 London; then 1 North, 2 Mids and 2 London, in rotation.
But they'd never only have 1 test in London.
I'd happily not have a test at Lords, we have a crap record there after all
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2023, 09:38:51 PM
Crawley, Duckett, Stokes, Root, Brook, Foakes, Ali, Woakes, Wood, Broad, Tongue
Yep, seems fair on form and ability. I'd hoped Jimmy would take the chance to go and play a county match but he's not in the lancs squad for tomorrow so I don't see any way for him to find the form he's been missing.
Post by: Louzie0 on July 09, 2023, 09:43:18 PM
Ditch Bairstow before the 4th Test match. Complete disaster.
And, for the future I suggest play another Test in Edgbaston.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 09, 2023, 09:56:27 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 09, 2023, 10:39:11 PM
I’m not sure I see Foakes as a 6. I also think Stokes at 3 probably significantly risks him being in very early and being exposed.
In Risso's line-up, Ali could bat 6 and Foakes at 7. Or Ali at 3, Stokes at 6 and Foakes at 7.
Post by: paul_e on July 09, 2023, 10:59:04 PM
I’m not sure I see Foakes as a 6. I also think Stokes at 3 probably significantly risks him being in very early and being exposed.
In Risso's line-up, Ali could bat 6 and Foakes at 7. Or Ali at 3, Stokes at 6 and Foakes at 7.
That's how I'd go. Mo is a bit of a wild card with the bat but him at 3 means everyone below that feels right. He's liable to have a bit of a slog so isn't right for a traditional 3 but bazball means he's an option.
Post by: TonyD on July 09, 2023, 11:34:56 PM
Edgbaston should always be an Ashes ground.No Ashes tests in the North in 2027, ridiculous.
I think they should alternate each Ashes series. So one time 2 tests in North, 2 in Midlands and 1 in London. Next time 2 Oop North, 1 Midlands, 2 London; then 1 North, 2 Mids and 2 London, in rotation.
But they'd never only have 1 test in London.
I'd happily not have a test at Lords, we have a crap record there after all
No question.
Post by: olaftab on July 09, 2023, 11:41:22 PM
Post by: TonyD on July 09, 2023, 11:45:30 PM
The Bairstow question is a tricky one.
I have a feeling if he is picked he will come good.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 10, 2023, 07:40:37 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 11, 2023, 01:28:51 PM
It's the 11 from Leeds with Lawrence, Jimmy and Tongue. Not sure about Robinson, I can't see him being fit for it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2023, 02:13:40 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 11, 2023, 04:19:51 PM
I suspect it’s the same team swapping Jimmy for Robinson. I’m largely fine with that, provided Jimmy looks a hell of a lot sharper. I would have swapped out Bairstow but they were always unlikely to do that. The one positive with him is that he had such a bad game at Headingly we’re almost inevitably going to see a net gain in performance from him.
Yeah I agree. Foakes must have really upset someone somewhere. They are a cliquey bunch, so I imagine that Anderson will be back in place of Robinson seeing as it is his home ground, whereas I would potentially gone for the extra pace of Tongue. I imagine the team will be:
Crawley, Duckett, Ali, Root, Brook, Stokes, Bairstow, Woakes, Wood, Broad, Anderson.
The only question I think will be whether Ali or Bairstow bats at 3. Lawrence might be a wildcard selection to bat at 3, but that would mean either Ali or one of the seamers missing out and I just don't see that.
Post by: LeeB on July 11, 2023, 04:22:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 11, 2023, 04:26:45 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 11, 2023, 07:26:19 PM
Crawley, Duckett, Ali, Root, Brook, Stokes, Bairstow, Woakes, Wood, Broad, Anderson.
Hopefully, Root and Bairstow can't be as Headingley, and the bowling attack is the strongest I think we have. I would have been tempted to drop either Bairtsow for Foakes, but it was never going to happen.
Post by: Beard82 on July 11, 2023, 08:16:36 PM
also - think this can die a death surely.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 11, 2023, 08:36:43 PM
However, that doesn’t mean that MLC will work.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 12, 2023, 06:37:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2023, 07:00:01 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 12, 2023, 08:54:07 AM
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The ICC isn't fit for purpose. Any sport where a nation can qualify for the world cup and then have to put out a message like this: https://twitter.com/KNCBInsider/status/1678223343693217793?s=20 - is in desperate need of a reorganisation.
Post by: KNVillan on July 12, 2023, 09:33:23 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/11/its-quite-emotional-chris-woakes-reaps-rewards-of-dedication-to-england
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 12, 2023, 04:14:46 PM
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The ICC isn't fit for purpose. Any sport where a nation can qualify for the world cup and then have to put out a message like this: https://twitter.com/KNCBInsider/status/1678223343693217793?s=20 - is in desperate need of a reorganisation.
I never realised it was that bad. That's a joke, he's basically begging.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 12, 2023, 08:22:16 PM
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 13, 2023, 06:52:13 AM
Cross should be opening that batting, with a display like that. 70 odd unbeaten for Knight.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 13, 2023, 10:25:15 AM
When that didn't work, I held off buying because the forecast was shit.
By the time a better forecast arrived, the Bristol game was sold out.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 13, 2023, 11:08:42 AM
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The problem is Paul is that outside of a couple of countries, there doesn't seem to be much of an interest in test cricket. Even in Australia, the drop off in crowds after day one of a lot of games is stark.
That means that it actually costs countries to host test cricket in a lot of cases which obviously means they are going to be reluctant. When you factor in that the riches of playing franchise cricket far outweigh those of test matches, then it means the former is more appealing to many players. Play in an empty stadium for five days for a fraction of the money you can earn playing for 3 hours at at time. Then there is also the physical toll test cricket takes on players, which isn't so much of an issue in T20.
With all that to consider I'm not really sure what the ICC can do and whether the reality is that it's just trying to hold back the tide of T20 completely taking the game over.
Post by: Risso on July 13, 2023, 01:00:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 13, 2023, 01:22:21 PM
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The problem is Paul is that outside of a couple of countries, there doesn't seem to be much of an interest in test cricket. Even in Australia, the drop off in crowds after day one of a lot of games is stark.
That means that it actually costs countries to host test cricket in a lot of cases which obviously means they are going to be reluctant. When you factor in that the riches of playing franchise cricket far outweigh those of test matches, then it means the former is more appealing to many players. Play in an empty stadium for five days for a fraction of the money you can earn playing for 3 hours at at time. Then there is also the physical toll test cricket takes on players, which isn't so much of an issue in T20.
With all that to consider I'm not really sure what the ICC can do and whether the reality is that it's just trying to hold back the tide of T20 completely taking the game over.
Yes but the ICC are absolutely complicit in that loss of interest in Test cricket. England might be the exception in terms of interest, but as demonstrated by this series there is nothing more compelling in cricket than good Test cricket. It’s not going to be possible to change overnight but if you create financial support to strengthen development then the quality and competition goes up. Then you would see more interest, which then drives in more revenue.
The problem is the ICC have just let it drift.
Post by: Drummond on July 14, 2023, 01:02:42 PM
Weather's looking a bit shit next week, hope the Aussies don't win the Ashes by default.
Yep, it's looking that way.
I can see a scenario where England go for it, all smash bang wallop and Australia just do whatever they can to slow it down and stay in. Such an unsatisfactory way for it go finish.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 15, 2023, 01:14:24 AM
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The problem is Paul is that outside of a couple of countries, there doesn't seem to be much of an interest in test cricket. Even in Australia, the drop off in crowds after day one of a lot of games is stark.
That means that it actually costs countries to host test cricket in a lot of cases which obviously means they are going to be reluctant. When you factor in that the riches of playing franchise cricket far outweigh those of test matches, then it means the former is more appealing to many players. Play in an empty stadium for five days for a fraction of the money you can earn playing for 3 hours at at time. Then there is also the physical toll test cricket takes on players, which isn't so much of an issue in T20.
With all that to consider I'm not really sure what the ICC can do and whether the reality is that it's just trying to hold back the tide of T20 completely taking the game over.
Yes but the ICC are absolutely complicit in that loss of interest in Test cricket. England might be the exception in terms of interest, but as demonstrated by this series there is nothing more compelling in cricket than good Test cricket. It’s not going to be possible to change overnight but if you create financial support to strengthen development then the quality and competition goes up. Then you would see more interest, which then drives in more revenue.
The problem is the ICC have just let it drift.
I agree with your thoughts on test cricket Paul, but do think even that might be a generational thing to be honest. It would be interesting to see some data around which format young people prefer as that might be an indication of the future direction of travel.
Players being contracted to franchises will be the big challenge and could well be the beginning of the end of test cricket in some countries.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 15, 2023, 08:09:32 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 15, 2023, 08:40:23 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 15, 2023, 11:07:45 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 15, 2023, 11:15:52 PM
I think the fear of the other formats is they will detract from the more established methods. I dont think that is the case personally - although dont really see the point of the 100.
I think the way TV have evolved is over the years also stop people from watching it. I remember as a kid being able to watch test cricket on the bbc, when we didnt have sky etc. That's when I got into it, but I the concept of watching something for a whole day seems pretty alien to my kids. To much instant gratification offered elsewhere.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 15, 2023, 11:31:35 PM
Post by: Rory on July 16, 2023, 01:10:39 AM
In my opinion, Test cricket is the pinnacle of all abstract invention. Its persistence and indefatigable capability of generating scenes and emotions like those seen and felt already this summer is as close as you'll ever get to proof of existence of the human soul. Ergo, anybody that doesn't 'get' it is, frankly, dead inside.
Beautifully put.
Post by: Nev on July 16, 2023, 03:50:07 AM
I was taking a walk along a towpath when we struggled to rescue the Lords test, a man operating a lock bought me the news of Stokes, and eventually, England's demise. That shared disappointment is something almost unique, both of us had spent the previous 4 days living the ebb and flow only to be let down. Strangers, briefly united in grief, parting with polite acknowledgement, never to meet again but forever bonded by our love of sport.
Nothing can beat that.
Post by: olaftab on July 16, 2023, 07:18:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 16, 2023, 05:58:50 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 16, 2023, 08:02:16 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 16, 2023, 09:40:35 PM
Aus win the W-Ashes
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 16, 2023, 09:53:05 PM
Great game today. A century from NSB, but England couldn’t quite get there.
Aus win the W-Ashes
Retain. They haven't won it yet.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 16, 2023, 11:28:37 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 17, 2023, 06:06:24 AM
Shame England lost that and Aus retain the Ashes, but hopefully they can still win the ODIs.
It's an excellent Australian team in fairness. England have done well to be as competitive as they have been
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 17, 2023, 04:18:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 17, 2023, 04:26:36 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 17, 2023, 06:06:53 PM
Post by: Rory on July 17, 2023, 06:10:02 PM
I hope that he does, if he bowls well then with that attack we should win the test but on the flip side our record against the Aussies at Old Trafford is shocking, I don’t think we’ve beaten them there since Botham’s Ashes in 1981.
Botham & Willis's Ashes 🙂
Post by: tomd2103 on July 18, 2023, 10:16:05 AM
If Jimmy Anderson can't find some form bowling from the Jimmy Anderson End after being dropped for under-performing then I suspect we might be witnessing his last test or 2.
I think it might be his last test anyway Paul, especially if we lose. Think he will struggle to play back-to-back games and it would be so what fitting if he finished at Old Trafford.
I do think it is a bit of a sentimental pick to be honest as Broad and Woakes opening with Wood and Tongue providing pace options as support looks a better balance on paper.
Post by: paul_e on July 18, 2023, 11:07:10 AM
If Jimmy Anderson can't find some form bowling from the Jimmy Anderson End after being dropped for under-performing then I suspect we might be witnessing his last test or 2.
I think it might be his last test anyway Paul, especially if we lose. Think he will struggle to play back-to-back games and it would be so what fitting if he finished at Old Trafford.
I do think it is a bit of a sentimental pick to be honest as Broad and Woakes opening with Wood and Tongue providing pace options as support looks a better balance on paper.
I think I agree, I just mean that the chocie will be taken out of his hands.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2023, 08:07:55 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 19, 2023, 01:50:28 AM
Stunning win from England.
Yep and a drawn series against the Australian women's team is certainly not to be sniffed at.
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 19, 2023, 02:09:38 AM
Such a shame they've just fallen short.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 07:10:58 AM
With Green in that’s a seriously long batting line up.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 19, 2023, 07:14:43 AM
Post by: Gareth on July 19, 2023, 07:38:49 AM
Think we'll need a result in three days here looking at the forecast
That will be the problem, going to be v tough to take 20 wickets, particularly as they bat quite deep. If we bat first will we see England more frantic than ever to get quick runs? If they bat first will they just bat for time out the game….intriguing but if the forecast is correct just don’t see it happening
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 19, 2023, 07:45:38 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2023, 10:18:56 AM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 10:21:52 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 10:31:13 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 10:38:47 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2023, 10:41:57 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 11:22:28 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 11:22:34 AM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 11:23:30 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 11:24:21 AM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 11:28:05 AM
It wasn't a chance but Bairstow not taking the catch from that one that flicked Warners pad showed just how poor a keeper he is in my opinion.
I thought that. Like you say, not a chance, but if you're dropping that you're dropping proper chances at some stage.
Post by: Nev on July 19, 2023, 11:28:31 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 11:35:30 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 19, 2023, 11:39:55 AM
Broad gets his 599th wicket with Kawaja LBW on review. It'd be apt for Warner to become his 600th!That would be hilarious, but fair play to Warner he has massively contributed to Broad's numbers.
Post by: olaftab on July 19, 2023, 11:41:06 AM
Need to rattle through a few more.I have a feeling Paul you would love Aussies to be 49 all out? Actually so would I ;D
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 11:41:47 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 11:44:59 AM
Need to rattle through a few more.I have a feeling Paul you would love Aussies to be 49 all out? Actually so would I ;D
I would!
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 19, 2023, 11:47:36 AM
It wasn't a chance but Bairstow not taking the catch from that one that flicked Warners pad showed just how poor a keeper he is in my opinion.
I thought that. Like you say, not a chance, but if you're dropping that you're dropping proper chances at some stage.
Just dropped another straightforward one. He looks hapless.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 11:48:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 11:53:24 AM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 11:55:04 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 11:56:47 AM
It wasn't a chance but Bairstow not taking the catch from that one that flicked Warners pad showed just how poor a keeper he is in my opinion.
I thought that. Like you say, not a chance, but if you're dropping that you're dropping proper chances at some stage.
Just dropped another straightforward one. He looks hapless.
He's got 2 big problems for me, he doesn't watch the ball into his hands so has too many pop out of the gloves and he has a very 'heavy' stance which makes him slow to move his feet to go after wide ones.
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 12:02:28 PM
Need to rattle through a few more.I have a feeling Paul you would love Aussies to be 49 all out? Actually so would I ;D
Not today :(
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 12:07:28 PM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 12:08:18 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 12:14:52 PM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 12:16:17 PM
Woakes gets Warner, 61-2
Boooooooo! Maybe second innings then for Broad.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 12:17:26 PM
Woakes gets Warner, 61-2
Boooooooo! Maybe second innings then for Broad.
Im happy that the Villa fan is in there amongst the wickets!
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 12:20:01 PM
Woakes gets Warner, 61-2
Boooooooo! Maybe second innings then for Broad.
Im happy that the Villa fan is in there amongst the wickets!
Only kidding, so am I. Never going to be upset to see Warner out.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2023, 12:34:57 PM
My favourite summariser
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 01:01:15 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 01:02:14 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 01:57:38 PM
We need to break this partnership otherwise these two will take the test away from us.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 02:01:45 PM
We badly needed that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 02:32:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 02:52:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 19, 2023, 03:25:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 03:27:57 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 03:31:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 03:36:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 03:47:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 03:49:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 03:49:48 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 19, 2023, 03:57:56 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 19, 2023, 04:06:07 PM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 04:08:14 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 04:21:33 PM
600 for Broad, well done son.
It was a good catch from Root.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 04:29:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 19, 2023, 04:54:23 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 04:58:10 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 19, 2023, 05:04:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 05:10:09 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on July 19, 2023, 05:12:49 PM
Annoyingly Marsh is taking this match away from England.
Pleasingly Woakes is taking this game away from Australia ;-)
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 05:37:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 05:39:08 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 19, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 06:07:16 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 19, 2023, 06:14:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 06:22:52 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 06:23:11 PM
Post by: Jane on July 19, 2023, 06:23:14 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 19, 2023, 06:26:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 19, 2023, 06:27:54 PM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 06:32:15 PM
On this showing in the last 2 test I reckon not picking Woakes for the first 2 is probably the difference between us being 2-1 down instead of 3-0 up. He's always delivers at home for England, quite why the selectors refuse to take that into account I don't know.
One of two or three decisions that don't look great, eg picking Anderson for this. Also sticking with Bairstow, even allowing for that outstanding catch today, it doesn't make up for all the chances he's put down.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 06:34:19 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 19, 2023, 06:43:06 PM
On this showing in the last 2 test I reckon not picking Woakes for the first 2 is probably the difference between us being 2-1 down instead of 3-0 up. He's always delivers at home for England, quite why the selectors refuse to take that into account I don't know.
One of two or three decisions that don't look great, eg picking Anderson for this. Also sticking with Bairstow, even allowing for that outstanding catch today, it doesn't make up for all the chances he's put down.
As McGrath said on TMS, Bairstow was starting to move the wrong way. He did well to recover, but it shouldn’t have been that difficult.
A full days play and they barely got to the second new ball.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 19, 2023, 06:47:44 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 19, 2023, 09:07:07 PM
I know this is being said over and over but it really has been a tremendous series. These two teams are so evenly matched.
Post by: Gareth on July 19, 2023, 09:27:57 PM
Post by: Risso on July 19, 2023, 09:44:43 PM
Eight wickets down isn't too bad at the end of day 1. Apart from it being a must win, likely shortened match.
I know this is being said over and over but it really has been a tremendous series. These two teams are so evenly matched.
I'm actually quite glad we were saved the prospect of having to watch Crawley try to survive for half an hour this evening,
Post by: Beard82 on July 19, 2023, 10:02:52 PM
It would be a shame if we lost 2 days from this one, not just because I want an oval showdown, but because they are so evenly matched it would be a shame to see a draw in a game that would have got a resultEight wickets down isn't too bad at the end of day 1. Apart from it being a must win, likely shortened match.
I know this is being said over and over but it really has been a tremendous series. These two teams are so evenly matched.
I'm actually quite glad we were saved the prospect of having to watch Crawley try to survive for half an hour this evening,
Post by: Villan For Life on July 19, 2023, 11:08:26 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 12:28:04 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2023, 10:07:15 AM
It's going to be a wash out Saturday, and quite possibly Sunday, so a win is going to be very hard to come by. Need to wrap them up inside an hour tomorrow morning, then really just go Bazball Max. Get some sort of lead as quickly as poss, declare, then get into them again. Even that might not be enough, but a draw's no good so may as well go for it.
If the weather is going to be that bad, then we probably needed to roll them out for around 80-100 less than they currently have. That said, if we can clean them up quickly this morning and get a 1st innings lead of 70+ then it could be game on.
Should be a very interesting couple of days.
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 10:11:08 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 11:00:20 AM
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 11:01:34 AM
Post by: manic-road on July 20, 2023, 11:02:20 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2023, 11:23:47 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2023, 11:24:33 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 11:25:44 AM
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 11:35:26 AM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 20, 2023, 11:36:43 AM
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2023, 11:36:56 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2023, 11:38:25 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2023, 11:42:46 AM
The way Wokes has bowled since coming back it looks like a mistake not playing him in the first two tests, especially given the first was at his home groundIsn't he a superb team man and so effective when given the chance but totally underrated. A sort of James Milner of cricket.
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 11:45:07 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2023, 11:50:58 AM
THAT WAS NOT A NO BALL. Woakes denied his 5th by a bad call.
Might have my England / Bears / Villa tinted specs on, but having seen the replay, I don't think it was either.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 11:54:56 AM
The way Wokes has bowled since coming back it looks like a mistake not playing him in the first two tests, especially given the first was at his home groundIsn't he a superb team man and so effective when given the chance but totally underrated. A sort of James Milner of cricket.
It's a shame that his career coincided with a pair of bowlers who have taken almost 1,300 test wickets between them.
I met him back in May at a Hockley Social Club thing, he really is a lovely guy.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 11:55:10 AM
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 11:58:17 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 12:01:25 PM
The way Wokes has bowled since coming back it looks like a mistake not playing him in the first two tests, especially given the first was at his home groundIsn't he a superb team man and so effective when given the chance but totally underrated. A sort of James Milner of cricket.
It's a shame that his career coincided with a pair of bowlers who have taken almost 1,300 test wickets between them.
I met him back in May at a Hockley Social Club thing, he really is a lovely guy.
I suspect the main reason he's not been played significantly more is that he's seen as too similar to those 2 so the selectors keep dismissing him in the hunt for something different. Which is ok but given how effective he is (at home) it seems like ideology trumping reality. What I find weird is that they then settled on Robinson, who surely has the same problem. I'd find it less frustrating if we were playing with 2 from Wood/Archer/Stone/etc every test.
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 12:37:45 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 12:49:51 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 12:51:38 PM
Almost certain to be out in the next 2 overs now I've said that.
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2023, 12:51:58 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2023, 12:52:59 PM
Mo batting nicely now.Exactly. I worry when he starts flowing.
Almost certain to be out in the next 2 overs now I've said that.
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 12:53:23 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 12:54:22 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 20, 2023, 01:19:42 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 01:47:51 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 02:00:18 PM
That 4 Moeen got from Cummins first delivery after Lunch was just beautiful, perfect cover drive. He then showed he's still the Moeen we know and love by wafting a nothing shot at the next one.
Got to love him, cricket is never dull when Mo is involved.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 20, 2023, 02:00:37 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 02:08:59 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 02:10:28 PM
That 4 Moeen got from Cummins first delivery after Lunch was just beautiful, perfect cover drive. He then showed he's still the Moeen we know and love by wafting a nothing shot at the next one.
Got to love him, cricket is never dull when Mo is involved.
The one player for whom Bazball wasn't much of a change!
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 02:11:15 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 02:14:17 PM
That 4 Moeen got from Cummins first delivery after Lunch was just beautiful, perfect cover drive. He then showed he's still the Moeen we know and love by wafting a nothing shot at the next one.
Got to love him, cricket is never dull when Mo is involved.
The one player for whom Bazball wasn't much of a change!
This pair are the 2 who benefit most from being allowed to just go for it if they want to.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 02:14:28 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 02:20:32 PM
Glad to see we're going after the spinner, I'm absolutely in favour of us making their decision to go with 5 seamers look fucking stupid.
10 from two balls for Crawley. Thus getting about half his usual score in two balls! ;)
(I know, he's better than that these days)
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 02:25:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 02:33:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 02:33:59 PM
Post by: Monty on July 20, 2023, 02:40:25 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 02:41:45 PM
Moeen gone but I think he's done the job he was there for and fully justified them sticking with him at 3.
Definitely. It wasn't a shit shot either, just a good catch. We've almost got to start playing this like a T20 game so getting out like that isn't really a problem.
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 02:42:25 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 02:42:43 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 02:55:35 PM
Think the accelerator is gradually being pressed….get to tea no more than 3 down we should be less than 100 behind
I said earlier that 200+ by tea would be the target and that lines up with how we're batting. If we make that with 6-7 wickets in hand and we can go full on t20 after tea and trying to flash 100 runs in 10-12 overs before putting them in for a nasty little spell this evening.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 03:03:26 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 03:04:09 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 03:08:05 PM
Post by: aev on July 20, 2023, 03:09:34 PM
I'd have got rid ages ago but he has done well in this series, and does drive the ball very pleasingly.
Root looks as though he is very close to his stumps playing the short ball.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2023, 03:12:09 PM
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
Lyon is a massive loss for them. Him bowling tight overs from one end while they rotate the seamers from the other is their approach. The seamers are now having to do a lot more work and it is now starting to show.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2023, 03:15:08 PM
Think the accelerator is gradually being pressed….get to tea no more than 3 down we should be less than 100 behind
I said earlier that 200+ by tea would be the target and that lines up with how we're batting. If we make that with 6-7 wickets in hand and we can go full on t20 after tea and trying to flash 100 runs in 10-12 overs before putting them in for a nasty little spell this evening.
Really does depend on the forecast I suppose Paul, but I would be tempted to try and get as many as possible today and even early tomorrow and try and get as big a lead as we can.
Post by: Monty on July 20, 2023, 03:16:06 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2023, 03:17:30 PM
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
I find great joy in watching flustered Australians in the field
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 03:18:21 PM
Think the accelerator is gradually being pressed….get to tea no more than 3 down we should be less than 100 behind
I said earlier that 200+ by tea would be the target and that lines up with how we're batting. If we make that with 6-7 wickets in hand and we can go full on t20 after tea and trying to flash 100 runs in 10-12 overs before putting them in for a nasty little spell this evening.
Really does depend on the forecast I suppose Paul, but I would be tempted to try and get as many as possible today and even early tomorrow and try and get as big a lead as we can.
I think what we need to avoid is them feeling that the 'right' thing to do is to dig in and waste time out of the game and I worry they'd be more like to do that if they start their 2nd innings with a big deficit.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 20, 2023, 03:19:57 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 03:21:06 PM
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
Lyon is a massive loss for them. Him bowling tight overs from one end while they rotate the seamers from the other is their approach. The seamers are now having to do a lot more work and it is now starting to show.
We lost Leach too. As important as Moeen has been thus far, he’d be playing for the Bears if Leach was fit.
Lyon is a top player but they’re paying the price of selecting him at the expense of the development of other players. Even Stuart MacGill took 200 plus test wickets and he shadowed Warne.
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 03:24:03 PM
Let's just get the lead first!
That's my point, I'm not sure we will, if we could get to 5pm and be within touching distance of them we might well declare and push to get them out as quickly as we can and see if we can make a chase before the rain comes.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 20, 2023, 03:28:33 PM
Let's just get the lead first!
That's my point, I'm not sure we will, if we could get to 5pm and be within touching distance of them we might well declare and push to get them out as quickly as we can and see if we can make a chase before the rain comes.
Right, see what you mean. Sounds a very Stokes thing to do so could well see it happening.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 03:28:58 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 03:30:04 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 03:41:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 03:42:18 PM
What an amazing session for England, 239-2 at tea. 178 runs in the session is phenomenal scoring
Only 25 overs as well.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2023, 03:44:09 PM
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
Lyon is a massive loss for them. Him bowling tight overs from one end while they rotate the seamers from the other is their approach. The seamers are now having to do a lot more work and it is now starting to show.
We lost Leach too. As important as Moeen has been thus far, he’d be playing for the Bears if Leach was fit.
Lyon is a top player but they’re paying the price of selecting him at the expense of the development of other players. Even Stuart MacGill took 200 plus test wickets and he shadowed Warne.
Sorry mate, point I was trying to make was that Lyon is central to their tactics and without him, cracks are starting to appear.
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 03:45:15 PM
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
But I think that's where a bit of the criticism comes in. We absolutely have to blatter them out of the park here otherwise our chances of winning with the weather forecast are slim. We didn't need to be quite so gung ho at Lords, and a lot of the team were out to just plain bad shots. The overall approach is undoubtedly the right one, but sometimes it just needs tempering due to the conditions. The Woakes innings that won us the match in the last match was a case in point.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 20, 2023, 03:46:43 PM
What an amazing session for England, 239-2 at tea. 178 runs in the session is phenomenal scoring
Tea has come at the wrong time for England as they were really speeding along then. The evening session could be something special.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 20, 2023, 03:59:38 PM
Post by: aev on July 20, 2023, 04:02:18 PM
I truly would not like to be sat near the top of that temporary stand.
Not 8 pints in...
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 04:24:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 04:25:15 PM
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
But I think that's where a bit of the criticism comes in. We absolutely have to blatter them out of the park here otherwise our chances of winning with the weather forecast are slim. We didn't need to be quite so gung ho at Lords, and a lot of the team were out to just plain bad shots. The overall approach is undoubtedly the right one, but sometimes it just needs tempering due to the conditions. The Woakes innings that won us the match in the last match was a case in point.
I get that but what I mean isn't so much the match situation but rather that we were trying to get into Cummins head and make him do what he did for a big part of that session. I just think our plans revolve around encouraging teams to try something and then punishing them for it, it didn't quite work at Lords (but might've if the bairstow run out hadn't happened).
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 04:32:19 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 04:41:24 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2023, 04:43:02 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 20, 2023, 04:47:44 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 04:48:13 PM
We're less than 30 behind with 2 down, thoughts are surely turning to not having to bat again here
I’m not sure, I think they will want to have a go at them for about 30 minutes tonight. I would declare in around an hour and get Wood and Woakes in amongst them.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 04:54:49 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 04:59:48 PM
In these conditions that would be mental. We have to be cognisant of the weather, but declaring tonight would be daft.
Available time left in the match will be an influencing factor though. There’s unlikely to be any play on Saturday and the forecast for Sunday is poor too. If we accelerate now, get a lead of around 50 then have a go at them tonight. It’s what Bazzball is about, doing the unexpected.
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 05:01:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 05:02:35 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 05:06:54 PM
Can see both viewpoints ref declaring tonight but I think we would probably have gone harder after tea were we looking to declare before the close
They've gone pretty hard to be fair.
Post by: LeeB on July 20, 2023, 05:08:30 PM
Can see both viewpoints ref declaring tonight but I think we would probably have gone harder after tea were we looking to declare before the close
They've gone pretty hard to be fair.
No, they're crawling along at just 6 an over since tea
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 05:09:10 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 05:09:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 05:11:36 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 05:14:12 PM
Can see both viewpoints ref declaring tonight but I think we would probably have gone harder after tea were we looking to declare before the close
They've gone pretty hard to be fair.
No, they're crawling along at just 6 an over since tea
Test cricket will die at that pace :-)
Loved seeing Starc appeal that lbw…not sure it would have another set of stumps…desperation is great
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 05:19:38 PM
Post by: Risso on July 20, 2023, 05:20:30 PM
Post by: Monty on July 20, 2023, 05:21:14 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 05:21:41 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 20, 2023, 05:22:12 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 05:27:03 PM
Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 05:31:16 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 05:42:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 05:43:17 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 20, 2023, 05:44:14 PM
Went low, not a bad sign for us.
Aye, couldn't do much about that.
Post by: Monty on July 20, 2023, 05:44:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 05:44:25 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 20, 2023, 05:47:01 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 20, 2023, 06:08:07 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 06:10:31 PM
Batting has definitely been considerably more difficult for Brook and Stokes. Some cloud cover tomorrow and more inconsistent bounce we will have a real chance
The worry is that the roller overnight takes some of the devil out of it and it's flat for the first session.
Post by: olaftab on July 20, 2023, 06:20:04 PM
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
Post by: KevinGage on July 20, 2023, 06:31:21 PM
I don’t mean that as a compliment.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 06:33:27 PM
Post by: Monty on July 20, 2023, 06:42:54 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 20, 2023, 06:43:13 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 20, 2023, 07:19:35 PM
I think we’ve got that spot on. We’ll launch an assault tomorrow morning.
We're going to have to bat out the first half hour to see what it's doing but I don't think it'll be any longer than that. There's showers in the forecast as well as the predicted washout for the weekend so we need to get at them as soon as possible.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 07:33:12 PM
Post by: Rory on July 20, 2023, 07:37:06 PM
There’s something very Dennis Wise about Labuschagne.
I don’t mean that as a compliment.
I don't think it could ever be taken as such 🙂
Post by: Villan For Life on July 20, 2023, 10:03:50 PM
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
It looked pretty genuine on TV. The series has been played in a good spirit and Pat Cummins is the most likeable Aussie captain for many years.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 20, 2023, 10:07:13 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 20, 2023, 10:42:40 PM
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
It looked pretty genuine on TV. The series has been played in a good spirit and Pat Cummins is the most likeable Aussie captain for many years.
After the first day of the first test match at Edgbaston he took his dad to see Bruce Springsteen at the Villa.
Post by: KevinGage on July 20, 2023, 11:22:11 PM
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
... Pat Cummins is the most likeable Aussie captain for many years.
It's not a high bar is it, in fairness.
Post by: Rory on July 21, 2023, 02:43:06 AM
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
... Pat Cummins is the most likeable Aussie captain for many years.
It's not a high bar is it, in fairness.
It really isn't, but that makes it more impressive in some ways. He does seem a decent bloke, to me.
Post by: Nev on July 21, 2023, 07:33:30 AM
Unlike football, where any respect for opposition players is rarely openly demonstrated, in cricket a player can be booed one minute and then applauded the next for decent play and that's why I enjoy the difference through the differing seasons.
Post by: manic-road on July 21, 2023, 09:48:31 AM
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 10:04:48 AM
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2023, 10:39:22 AM
Knocking a few quick runs and losing Brook might help, this situation is tailor made for Bairstow to come in and smash a two run a ball 70 or so
I was surprised at the safety first approach of the last hour last night. As Paul says, we need to take 10 wickets, so I'd have thought a full onslaught last night would have been the thing to do, even at the expense of a few wickets. They absolutely have to go for it this morning, a day like today is made for Bazball.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 21, 2023, 10:43:23 AM
Post by: manic-road on July 21, 2023, 10:59:47 AM
Knocking a few quick runs and losing Brook might help, this situation is tailor made for Bairstow to come in and smash a two run a ball 70 or so
Not sure about wanting to lose Brook quickly, he is a brutal hitter.
Post by: Gareth on July 21, 2023, 11:12:16 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 11:17:25 AM
What we thinking try and get 180 ahead by about 12.30 and get them in for 20 minutes before lunch?
Who knows, I think I'd go for another half hour and see where things are. Having batted this morning though I suspect we'll want a lead of 150 or more. I'd be keeping an eye out for any balls misbehaving though, late on yesterday there was a lot of variation in the bounce, if that is still there and we're under clouds, Woakes could be destructive.
Post by: Gareth on July 21, 2023, 11:26:23 AM
Agree Paul, those low bouncing balls were eyes light up time for Woakes and Jimmy. Listening to Crawley last night seemed to suggest they only want to bat once…but can’t go on too longWhat we thinking try and get 180 ahead by about 12.30 and get them in for 20 minutes before lunch?
Who knows, I think I'd go for another half hour and see where things are. Having batted this morning though I suspect we'll want a lead of 150 or more. I'd be keeping an eye out for any balls misbehaving though, late on yesterday there was a lot of variation in the bounce, if that is still there and we're under clouds, Woakes could be destructive.
In next test news Tongue has blitzed through Leicester 5-29 so hopefully be firing if we need him.
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 11:38:42 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 11:48:57 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 11:54:20 AM
A declaration by lunch is important as I would rather have England needing to bat to get say 100 runs on Sunday than waiting for 3 Australian wickets in the last session. There will be no play tomorrow but Sunday could be Ok in patches.
Sunday looks like thundery showers so could be ok or could be a wet outfield and no play, it's a risk but, as you say, it's one I'd prefer to face needing to smash 50-100 runs quickly than needing to take a handful of wickets. I don't think I'd wait as late as lunch, I'd be looking at declaring with at last 5-6 overs to go at them before the break. That does need us to really start pushing the run rate now though, I'm not sure losing wickets matters to us any more in this innings. Them not taking the new ball is very telling, they're clearly scared of us smashing it around a bit.
Post by: Monty on July 21, 2023, 11:56:13 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 11:59:33 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 12:04:49 PM
Extremely useful 51 from the Skip. He's annoyed with himself but if the whole team got that we'd get 561 all out, so you know, it's a definite contribution.
Useful as much because he batted through a nasty spell yesterday where we'd just lost 2 well set batsmen to balls that just didn't bounce. A little 'resettling' was probably the right call at that point if we didn't want to go nuclear and declare and him and Brook saw us through it fantastically.
I really want to see them take the new ball now though, it'll give us a great idea of how likely we are to get some early wickets.
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2023, 12:14:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 12:15:05 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 21, 2023, 12:17:53 PM
Shame we aren't ahead or even level in the series as, I might be going early on this and don't want to jinx it, the Aussies are looking spent here.
Post by: Monty on July 21, 2023, 12:18:01 PM
Game is in a bit of a lull right now. Listening to the Australians on comms trying to act like this is a good morning for them is pretty funny.
A lull and a wicket with the forecast as it is, in my view, constitutes about as good a morning as they could've hoped for.
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 12:27:22 PM
This ia all surprisingly pedestrian.They are letting Australians manage the run rate.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 12:31:05 PM
Post by: aev on July 21, 2023, 12:34:55 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 12:38:43 PM
Post by: Nev on July 21, 2023, 12:45:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 12:56:24 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 21, 2023, 12:58:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 01:04:43 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 01:05:35 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 01:07:08 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 01:08:25 PM
I’d get them out for an over or two just so they can’t settle mentally over lunch.
There's a very real chance that there are 60 overs (at most) left in the game. I'm not sure we should be giving any of those away right now.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 21, 2023, 01:10:30 PM
I'd let Bairstow have a blast for 20 mins after lunch, declaring now gives them lunch to prepare. Make them toil a bit more first.
Total wise, I think a declaration now would be fine, but like you I would want to make it as uncomfortable for them as possible.
Would be a massive wind up, but even just go out after lunch and then declare after a few balls.
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2023, 01:21:59 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 01:52:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 02:03:39 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 21, 2023, 02:20:11 PM
I think the best hope is only batting once, so there’s a trade off. If it goes rain for two days the odds of us having time to bowl them out is minimal anyway. Might not work, but I get the balance they’re trying to strike.
Yeah, it's a tough one. Suppose the thinking is to try and get as many as possible and then try and bowl them out in between the rain delays and see what is left to chase. As opposed to declaring earlier and potentially facing a bigger total to chase.
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 02:41:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 21, 2023, 02:45:48 PM
I think we've given up too much time here, runs on the board is great but taking 10 wickets is more important, I hope they're not waiting for Bairstow to get a hundred so they use it to justify picking him.
That thought did cross my mind Paul! All sorts of other scenarios have as well though - do they know that the forecast is actually not as bad as being reported and there is likely to be some play tomorrow and Sunday? Do they know that the forecast is actually worse than being reported and they know there is little chance of a result, so they just want to batter the Aussies as much as possible with the last test at The Oval next week in mind?
Post by: Drummond on July 21, 2023, 02:48:18 PM
Tomorrow is going to have nothing, but Sunday will offer some time too I think?
Post by: aev on July 21, 2023, 02:48:30 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 02:52:24 PM
We may or may not win the ashes, but any opportunity to do this to that mob should be taken.
Post by: dave shelley on July 21, 2023, 02:55:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 02:55:24 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 21, 2023, 02:55:58 PM
Bairstow running on dot balls is really funny given the context of Lords incident.
We may or may not win the ashes, but any opportunity to do this to that mob should be taken.
Quite. It's hilarious to be honest. Let's just hope we've not fucked it timewise.
Stokes opening the bowling and getting a couple would be nice.
Post by: Drummond on July 21, 2023, 02:56:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 02:57:42 PM
I get the argument of rubbing their noses in it but we'd already done that, getting wickets is what matters and I hope we haven't fucked ourselves, if we end the day with a big lead and them still in and defending I'll be very annoyed.
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 02:59:29 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 02:59:42 PM
If we can see it over the line, you have to say the momentum is with us for the Oval... I've day 3 tickets... so fingers crossed!
I've been hoping we'd take it to that test on the basis that day 3 is the day the wife and kids bugger off for a week leaving me a complete day to sit and watch uninterupted.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 21, 2023, 02:59:59 PM
Post by: aev on July 21, 2023, 03:01:10 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 21, 2023, 03:01:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 03:30:21 PM
The weather for Sunday is now forecast to be as bad as for tomorrow. Looks to me as if the intention here was/is to ensure we gain as big a moral victory as possible, hopefully before actually levelling the series in the final test.
I think it was more that if there is any clear weather then we’ve hopefully done all the batting we need to do and it’s just about wickets. Reality is the weather, annoyingly, will likely stuff us either way.
Post by: Drummond on July 21, 2023, 03:45:46 PM
The weather for Sunday is now forecast to be as bad as for tomorrow. Looks to me as if the intention here was/is to ensure we gain as big a moral victory as possible, hopefully before actually levelling the series in the final test.
We can't win the Ashes with a moral victory, and the records won't record it either.
Post by: dubont on July 21, 2023, 03:48:41 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 21, 2023, 03:49:17 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 21, 2023, 03:52:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 04:12:14 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 04:18:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
Khawaja has wasted a review in both of his innings.Yes, good man. His dismissals are worth two wickets.
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 04:43:11 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 04:51:53 PM
I believe to declare or not to declare may well mean Ashes are lost. Wrong to declare at Edgbaston and wrong not to declare shortly after lunch today. Time is of premium in this match and England may have blown it.
As I've been moaning about all morning how many runs we got was irrelevant if we can't take 10 wickets, that was the 'known' this morning. How many runs we'd need to not pad up again was guesswork and, in my view, they've gone 100ish runs higher than we needed to.
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 04:54:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 04:56:28 PM
Indeed. The big issue was more time in better conditions to make Aussies stay out. On sunday they will have lot of excuses not to come out.I believe to declare or not to declare may well mean Ashes are lost. Wrong to declare at Edgbaston and wrong not to declare shortly after lunch today. Time is of premium in this match and England may have blown it.
As I've been moaning about all morning how many runs we got was irrelevant if we can't take 10 wickets, that was the 'known' this morning. How many runs we'd need to not pad up again was guesswork and, in my view, they've gone 100ish runs higher than we needed to.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 21, 2023, 04:59:35 PM
That was a better catch than the one Smith claimed and was given against India in the Oval match.
Yes, looked to me as if his right hand had scooped up the ball into his two hands, without the ball hitting the ground.
Post by: Gareth on July 21, 2023, 05:01:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 21, 2023, 05:02:39 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 05:03:55 PM
That was a better catch than the one Smith claimed and was given against India in the Oval match.
Yes, looked to me as if his right hand had scooped up the ball into his two hands, without the ball hitting the ground.
Looked that way to me till they showed the close up front one, it bounced up into his hands and he knew it, but it was close enough to doubt.
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 05:05:25 PM
Post by: Risso on July 21, 2023, 05:14:08 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 21, 2023, 05:20:10 PM
Anderson just hasn't looked threatening, definitely needs to call it a day now.
A mistake bringing him back, Tongue would have been more effective
Post by: Flamingo Lane on July 21, 2023, 05:20:39 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 05:40:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 05:47:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 05:57:35 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 05:58:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 06:01:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 06:20:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 06:51:24 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 21, 2023, 07:10:42 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on July 21, 2023, 07:17:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 07:18:58 PM
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on July 21, 2023, 07:19:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 07:25:40 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 21, 2023, 07:46:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 21, 2023, 07:49:07 PM
If we can get 3 hours worth of cricket then we will win. I think Sunday will be OK weather wise
Bloody hope so.
Post by: Drummond on July 21, 2023, 08:02:33 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 21, 2023, 08:42:36 PM
Post by: Monty on July 21, 2023, 11:05:45 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 21, 2023, 11:53:46 PM
One thing that's impossible to deny: that England have taken a team, whatever the weather considerations there might be, that many said were simply better than them man-for-man after the first two tests, and have absolutely kicked the shit out of them in this match. This scorecard looks honestly like what you'd expect from India against Bangladesh. A fantastic effort.100% great work - and good to see faith being repaid - potentially when it matters most. I hope we get enough more play for us to have a decent go - otherwise it will always be a what if
Post by: tomd2103 on July 22, 2023, 01:15:05 AM
One thing that's impossible to deny: that England have taken a team, whatever the weather considerations there might be, that many said were simply better than them man-for-man after the first two tests, and have absolutely kicked the shit out of them in this match. This scorecard looks honestly like what you'd expect from India against Bangladesh. A fantastic effort.
You could sense momentum shifting at Headingley and this match has seen us gain the upper hand. Will be galling if we don't get this one over the line and knowing that the defeat at Edgbaston in particular cost us a chance of winning the series.
Still hopeful we will see some play this weekend.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 07:39:41 AM
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2023, 08:35:36 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 08:40:29 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 08:48:03 AM
Post by: Monty on July 22, 2023, 09:52:17 AM
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2023, 10:09:05 AM
Assuming the draw, this should be an Ashes retention with a big asterisk next to it. Absolute devastating shame that this series won't get the ending it deserves.
Even worse that we’ve largely chucked it away in the first two matches.
Post by: Chris Smith on July 22, 2023, 10:14:46 AM
Post by: German James on July 22, 2023, 10:24:32 AM
Yep. It's been a fantastic series and England have played some sublime stuff. But my enthusiasm is more than slightly offset by that.Assuming the draw, this should be an Ashes retention with a big asterisk next to it. Absolute devastating shame that this series won't get the ending it deserves.
Even worse that we’ve largely chucked it away in the first two matches.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2023, 10:26:43 AM
Play to resume at 1.
2 hour window of weather to get 6 wickets.
Post by: Chris Smith on July 22, 2023, 10:31:32 AM
Rain to stop by 12.
Play to resume at 1.
2 hour window of weather to get 6 wickets.
Think that’s optimistic Jon, there is always tomorrow though.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcw25uekz#?date=2023-07-22
Post by: Beard82 on July 22, 2023, 11:34:01 AM
Post by: Beard82 on July 22, 2023, 11:37:34 AM
Actually looking at the met office - think Jons prediction is probably are best chance - does look to be a window this afternoonRain to stop by 12.
Play to resume at 1.
2 hour window of weather to get 6 wickets.
Think that’s optimistic Jon, there is always tomorrow though.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcw25uekz#?date=2023-07-22
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2023, 11:38:12 AM
Post by: Beard82 on July 22, 2023, 12:08:23 PM
So I think were pretty much screwed.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 22, 2023, 12:09:52 PM
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2023, 12:56:42 PM
hmm - there saying it will take a least 2 hours to get the ground ready for play when the rain stops. Assume because of the amount of rain there has been? Normally doesnt take as long as that.
So I think were pretty much screwed.
That's the problem, it's not a case of just getting the cover off the crease as soon as it stops and cracking on. As soon as they've got it ready, the rain will be back shortly after. And it's absolutely battered it down according to my mate who lives not far from Old Trafford.
Post by: Chris Smith on July 22, 2023, 01:04:50 PM
hmm - there saying it will take a least 2 hours to get the ground ready for play when the rain stops. Assume because of the amount of rain there has been? Normally doesnt take as long as that.
So I think were pretty much screwed.
On the commentary yesterday they mentioned that the haver cover wasn’t working, don’t know if it was fixed or not.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 22, 2023, 01:08:08 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 22, 2023, 01:09:13 PM
Groundsmen are out.
Any chance they are Australian and we can claim them as wickets?
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2023, 01:09:47 PM
Groundsmen are out.
Probably the only people who will be today.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 01:09:51 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 01:32:37 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 01:36:05 PM
Are the Old Trafford covers not up to much?
As far as I know all test grounds have similar hover covers but the one at Old Trafford has broken down.
They all have similar drainage systems too, paid for by the ECB and Old Trafford is supposed to be one of the quicker outfields to dry.
Post by: Nev on July 22, 2023, 01:40:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 01:40:15 PM
If there’s no more rain they are going to inspect at 2pm. I’m not hopeful of play today but tomorrow is a different story.
Really? Weather looks terrible tomorrow doesn’t it?
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 01:42:02 PM
If there’s no more rain they are going to inspect at 2pm. I’m not hopeful of play today but tomorrow is a different story.
Really? Weather looks terrible tomorrow doesn’t it?
I’m clinging to a possible change in the forecast tomorrow. Yesterday they weren’t forecasting this current dry period so you never know.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 01:43:36 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 22, 2023, 02:03:36 PM
They tipped a load of water on to the pitch when removing one of the covers the clumsy Manc twats.Aussie in disguise
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 22, 2023, 02:07:01 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 22, 2023, 02:08:38 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2023, 02:48:25 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2023, 02:51:38 PM
I'm far from an expert in cricket, and my knowledge of engineering is so non-existent that, really, it's anti-knowledge. That said, it's now time for me to share with the world a question about cricket/engineering: why can't they have some kind of circus-style big top (without the sides) that gets erected when it's raining so they can crack on with the game?
because playing indoors has a bigger than you might expect impact on the game.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2023, 02:53:58 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2023, 02:56:31 PM
But it wouldn't be indoors if there are no sides on my lovely big top.
There would still be concerns about the impact it would have on swing bowling and you'd still need lights.
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2023, 02:58:58 PM
But it wouldn't be indoors if there are no sides on my lovely big top.The scientific answer is it’s just. Not. Cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 03:07:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 22, 2023, 03:08:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 03:12:42 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 03:23:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 03:24:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 03:31:06 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 22, 2023, 03:34:36 PM
To Andy Burnham after his recent plea for Ashes tests for Manchester, this is why it’s a bad idea.
Saw a stat yesterday that there have been more missed days of ashes cricket in Sydney (25) than Manchester (24). The whole country is wet, it wouldn't have made a difference where it was played.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 03:35:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 03:35:55 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 03:47:12 PM
An hour in and it’s all a bit flat, the ball was reversing yesterday but that’s not happening much so far today, I imagine that the damp outfield will be affecting the ball and affecting any reverse swing.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 03:51:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 03:52:56 PM
Post by: Risso on July 22, 2023, 03:59:15 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 04:12:00 PM
They’re changing the ball now so maybe that will help.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 04:15:39 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 22, 2023, 04:19:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 04:21:27 PM
Post by: Nev on July 22, 2023, 04:25:45 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 22, 2023, 04:35:11 PM
We've just seemed incredibly flat. We should have been chomping at the bit to get at them with the unexpected play today
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 04:38:39 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 22, 2023, 04:39:15 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 22, 2023, 04:42:37 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 22, 2023, 04:48:09 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2023, 04:49:25 PM
Great bowling and smart catch. Come on England.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 04:50:33 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2023, 04:50:46 PM
As I said great decision to keep going with the spinners :-)You're a genius Gareth. Thank you. :)
Post by: Gareth on July 22, 2023, 04:52:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2023, 04:53:27 PM
Labuschange is a cheating, eyes too close together arsehole. He knew he'd hit, why not do the decent thing eh?Yes but he's Australians, what about the no decision from umpire, Menon (?)?
Great bowling and smart catch. Come on England.
Post by: Beard82 on July 22, 2023, 04:55:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 05:02:59 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2023, 05:05:33 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2023, 05:06:36 PM
Labuschange is a cheating, eyes too close together arsehole. He knew he'd hit, why not do the decent thing eh?Yes but he's Australians, what about the no decision from umpire, Menon (?)?
Great bowling and smart catch. Come on England.
Wasn't great was it Aftab?
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2023, 05:08:42 PM
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?
What, and run around the outfield throwing up? Bairstow already looks like a barrel ha ha. Bigger lunch, that made me laugh my friend. I know what you mean though, shame they couldn't have done the tea thing in another 30 minutes or so as we are still only around half way through the day.
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2023, 05:10:03 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2023, 05:26:19 PM
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
(https://i.ibb.co/bPVmZGq/Tea.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPVmZGq)
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 22, 2023, 05:26:31 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 22, 2023, 05:28:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 05:36:36 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 22, 2023, 05:45:55 PM
Too an extent, but to be fair a lot of it was down to Australia batting really well.
I think we came out really flat and without purpose. Made it way too easy for them
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 22, 2023, 05:51:50 PM
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
(https://i.ibb.co/bPVmZGq/Tea.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPVmZGq)
See, people give footy stick, but I'm here to show you all what happens when somebody genuinely irritating starts piping up!
Post by: Steve67 on July 22, 2023, 05:54:28 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 22, 2023, 05:58:05 PM
The weather is going to retain them the Ashes isn't it? Jammy fuckers, the momentum is all with England since we starting playing sensibly.
I don't think we can moan about luck too much really. We threw away the first 2 tests
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 22, 2023, 06:32:23 PM
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
(https://i.ibb.co/bPVmZGq/Tea.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPVmZGq)
See, people give footy stick, but I'm here to show you all what happens when somebody genuinely irritating starts piping up!
Nah I love cricket and I agree, fuck tea on days like today. They can have their scones later*.
* I will happily eat scones at any part of the day.
Post by: Nev on July 22, 2023, 06:52:40 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 07:15:30 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 22, 2023, 07:39:28 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 22, 2023, 07:51:20 PM
Good point, well made by you role playing😊Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
(https://i.ibb.co/bPVmZGq/Tea.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPVmZGq)
See, people give footy stick, but I'm here to show you all what happens when somebody genuinely irritating starts piping up!
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on July 22, 2023, 07:58:13 PM
Gives us a chance if there's a few hours play tomorrow.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 22, 2023, 08:29:14 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 22, 2023, 11:14:06 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 22, 2023, 11:15:32 PM
Yeah although the weather looks bloody dreadful, so sadly I think it’s done.It looked the same today - so maybe, just maybe we can get another slice of luck
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 08:22:15 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 23, 2023, 08:25:26 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 23, 2023, 08:26:20 AM
Thing is even if we get on when a team knows it’ll only be on go for a short time it’s quite easy to dig in. I think it takes something special for us to win this.
Even if we get a dry window light will be an issue as we saw yesterday.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 08:27:21 AM
Post by: simboy on July 23, 2023, 08:41:40 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2023, 08:56:02 AM
That’s why I keep saying it would have been better for England to declare at lunch on day 3 and concentrate on taking 10 wickets. If Aussies were all out now with say 100 lead that would be easier to get today than 5 wickets.Thing is even if we get on when a team knows it’ll only be on go for a short time it’s quite easy to dig in. I think it takes something special for us to win this.
Even if we get a dry window light will be an issue as we saw yesterday.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 09:11:02 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 23, 2023, 09:46:16 AM
Has anyone heard what’s up with Woakes? He was off most of yesterday …
Stiffness in his legs, he did return to the field but didn’t bowl again.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 23, 2023, 09:57:25 AM
In a match where time is of the essence that's nonsensical.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 23, 2023, 10:12:16 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2023, 10:42:06 AM
Nah I still think the decision to get the runs was the right call.
I'm with Aftab but I get that we're just not going to agree on this.
My worry all along was about giving ourselves enough time to take 20 wickets, and I still think we're going to struggle to do that because we took too much time out of the game trying to ensure we wouldn't need to bat again. As I said on Thursday/Friday I wouldn't have even gone to lunch, I'd have planned to declare around midday and have aimed for a lead of 120-150, every over we played after that felt like it was taking time away from the critical job of bowling them out again.
Post by: aj2k77 on July 23, 2023, 11:17:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 11:20:22 AM
Nah I still think the decision to get the runs was the right call.
I'm with Aftab but I get that we're just not going to agree on this.
My worry all along was about giving ourselves enough time to take 20 wickets, and I still think we're going to struggle to do that because we took too much time out of the game trying to ensure we wouldn't need to bat again. As I said on Thursday/Friday I wouldn't have even gone to lunch, I'd have planned to declare around midday and have aimed for a lead of 120-150, every over we played after that felt like it was taking time away from the critical job of bowling them out again.
Yeah I mean I don’t think there’s a right answer. My gut feel is though that if there was play and they were say 80 ahead now it’d be a lot more tricky.
However, looks like it’s all going to be moot thanks to the fucking weather.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 23, 2023, 11:24:34 AM
Well done Manchester and your shit weather. It's going to cost us the ashes. I wouldn't give them another Ashes test. Manc twats.The good news is they won't get a Test in the 2027 Ashes.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 11:57:33 AM
Post by: Gareth on July 23, 2023, 12:02:03 PM
Well done Manchester and your shit weather. It's going to cost us the ashes. I wouldn't give them another Ashes test. Manc twats.
Think the first 2 tests lack of performance was much more a factor. Weather is always a factor in test cricket and can’t be controlled, piss poor performances are controllable though
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 12:16:11 PM
Yeah - as much as I would love to blame them, I think we have had enough opportunities in this series to not be praying for good weather. The mad hooking at lords and the declaration on Edgbaston being two areas where we let ourselves down.Well done Manchester and your shit weather. It's going to cost us the ashes. I wouldn't give them another Ashes test. Manc twats.
Think the first 2 tests lack of performance was much more a factor. Weather is always a factor in test cricket and can’t be controlled, piss poor performances are controllable though
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 12:21:09 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 23, 2023, 12:21:39 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2023, 12:31:32 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 12:36:09 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on July 23, 2023, 12:51:06 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on July 23, 2023, 12:52:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 01:00:19 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 23, 2023, 01:02:29 PM
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
Raze their accursed city to the ground and disperse permanently.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 23, 2023, 01:11:23 PM
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
Raze their accursed city to the ground and disperse permanently.
They'd still try to claim it was the UK's second biggest city.
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 01:18:12 PM
I genuinely don’t get the lunch thing. IF the pitch wasn’t ready and it needed 40 mins fair enough. But if it was purely for lunch it’s ridiculous.I think it was because the it needed an extra 40 minutes
Post by: Axl Rose on July 23, 2023, 01:20:33 PM
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
Raze their accursed city to the ground and disperse permanently.
They'd still try to claim it was the UK's second biggest city.
It'd definitely one of the shittest cities, and absolutely contains two of the world's most Cuntish football teams
Post by: German James on July 23, 2023, 01:22:08 PM
Quote
Morgan Rees: Genuinely surprised we play any cricket in this country. Play can only start at 11:00 when it's light from 7am, need at least 30 minutes of no rain before a pitch inspection, then 45 minutes no rain before play starts. Then one drop and we start all over again.
Quote
Ash Hague: Cricket must look absolutely ridiculous to those looking in. Taking teams off before 90 overs are bowled in good weather, not starting early on the good days when you always lose time later, and of course they must have a full lunch.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 01:22:51 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 01:27:00 PM
Might also increase the over-rates
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 02:23:45 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 02:25:06 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 02:55:16 PM
Its unfortunate that it is at such a decisive point with us dominating it and needing the win - if there was even 1 day out of the 2 days it seems almost certain that England would have won and set up an outstanding end to what has been an outstanding series.
The rain isn't what cost us the ashes - we should have won at least 1 or the first 2 tests, but it is a shame given it has grabbed the public imagination, and it has been such am evenly matched series that we miss an epic show down.
They talk about the number of lost days played by venue, and Old Trafford was twice as much as the next closest in this country (cant find the stat) - so it probably for the best its not there is 2027
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2023, 03:13:53 PM
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
Raze their accursed city to the ground and disperse permanently.
They'd still try to claim it was the UK's second biggest city.
It'd definitely one of the shittest cities, and absolutely contains two of the world's most Cuntish football teams
Correct about the football teams but I loved living and working up there. It’s a great city, Leeds is better in terms of northern cities, but they’ve both got a lot going for them. I’m up there next weekend seeing friends and family, looking forward to it.
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2023, 03:30:14 PM
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?Take responsibility for their sinful deeds and flock to churches, mosques, temples and breweries and ask for forgiveness.
Post by: aj2k77 on July 23, 2023, 03:37:12 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 23, 2023, 03:45:41 PM
The thing I was thinking as a test "day" never get through the overs, and if its clear that the bad weather is coming, surely they can accommodate a bit of extra play on the days that are ok - up to the 90 over mark
Might also increase the over-rates
One of the stupidest rule changes ever bought in by the ICC was the introduction of a maximum of 30 minutes at the end of the day to bowl remaining overs. It just encourages teams behind in the game to drag their feet and bring the overrate right down. Teams dont care about being fined for slow overrates.
The only people punished are the spectators.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 04:28:17 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 23, 2023, 04:31:12 PM
Point of order I’ve heard the Oval referenced as being a dead rubber, but that’s not true.
I've heard a few people saying things along these lines but its a daft argument. Yes England won't be able to regain the Ashes but there is a massive difference between winning/losing a Test series and drawing one. Australia haven't won a test series in England since 2001 and that alone is a massive incentive for both teams in the last test
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 04:31:44 PM
Point of order I’ve heard the Oval referenced as being a dead rubber, but that’s not true.How random - literally said this to my wife a second ago - I then had to explain to her what a dead rubber was. She assumed it was a used durex.
Its not - im just gutted having spent a small fortunate for 2 days there for what could have been a once in a life time decider, only for the rain to ruin it.
Still important to not lose the series
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 04:37:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 04:41:12 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 05:06:23 PM
The whether has be shit all summer - though looking forward to having hose pipe bands by the end of it
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2023, 05:06:50 PM
- Dropping too many catches/fielding/keeping too badly at important times
- Sticking with Anderson too long
- Possibly declaring too quickly at Lords, and not being Bazball enough in Manchester.
- Not playing Woakes early enough
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2023, 05:09:47 PM
England have failed to reclaim the Ashes due in part at least to the following:
- Dropping too many catches/fielding/keeping too badly at important times
- Sticking with Anderson too long
- Possibly declaring too quickly at Lords, and not being Bazball enough in Manchester.
- Not playing Woakes early enough
Swap Lords for Edgbaston and I agree with that.
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 05:13:38 PM
England have failed to reclaim the Ashes due in part at least to the following:Think thats pretty fair - Robinson & Anderson offered so little this series - we look a different bowling attack with Woods and Woakes
- Dropping too many catches/fielding/keeping too badly at important times
- Sticking with Anderson too long
- Possibly declaring too quickly at Lords, and not being Bazball enough in Manchester.
- Not playing Woakes early enough
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2023, 05:15:40 PM
Post by: beness on July 23, 2023, 05:24:17 PM
Post by: German James on July 23, 2023, 05:43:54 PM
I think the England style of play is the most exciting seen in test cricket.So do I! That's why I'm really looking forward to the last test. A drawn series isn't a disgrace. I'm not bothered about who gets to keep the Ashes.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 05:46:51 PM
The biggest failing for me is I think we went into the series undercooked. The preparation wasn’t good enough.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 23, 2023, 05:49:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 23, 2023, 05:50:21 PM
Yeah but let’s remember for all those points we’ve had the number 1 side in the world clinging on and literally being saved by obliteration by the weather. To do that is impressive. Hopefully we can get the luck we haven’t had in this game, because we hammer them there and it’ll be the weakest Ashe’s retention ever.
The biggest failing for me is I think we went into the series undercooked. The preparation wasn’t good enough.
The bowling and fielding wasn't as good as we're used to, losing Leach played a big part in that and Anderson looking totally out of sorts in the first 2 tests really hurt us. He was a bit better this test but still couldn't quite find his line and rhythm.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 06:00:11 PM
The tricky thing for us is we’ve got to do a fair bit of transition, mainly in the bowling attack. It was an old attack this week. We also need to see if Stokes’ knee is something fixable.
Woakes exceptional performances have shown he needs to play, and equally that an all rounder is required at 8 even if Stokes can bowl. I could imagine Sam Curran being Woakes’ back up.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on July 23, 2023, 06:01:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 06:03:56 PM
Post by: Aldridge Villa on July 23, 2023, 06:59:56 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 23, 2023, 07:09:44 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 23, 2023, 07:19:05 PM
Too many passages like yesterday with the ball not doing owt or batsmen just ducking under the short ball.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2023, 07:35:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 07:41:19 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 07:53:49 PM
Really hope we stick it to them next week, the cheating, spawny wankersIf cricket did banners this would be it
Post by: Beard82 on July 23, 2023, 08:01:40 PM
Hopefully we’ll dominate and win at the Oval - whatever ever we say about those mistakes, we have played the best Test side in the world and for a decision points and some better weather we could easily be 4-0. Australia are the side hanging on, and we need to take the learnings and then take them out on their patch.I think thats a good summary - we need more variantion in the bowling which Woakes and wood provided. Robinson coming back from an injury and (maybe) anderson and mo being at the end. I think its probably a bit more of an evolution over the next few years to get ready for the Ashes in Oz.
The tricky thing for us is we’ve got to do a fair bit of transition, mainly in the bowling attack. It was an old attack this week. We also need to see if Stokes’ knee is something fixable.
Woakes exceptional performances have shown he needs to play, and equally that an all rounder is required at 8 even if Stokes can bowl. I could imagine Sam Curran being Woakes’ back up.
A little like the evolution Im trying with Mrs Beard as to why its ok to spend our savings going to Oz for the series.
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2023, 08:07:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 23, 2023, 08:24:05 PM
Post by: Risso on July 23, 2023, 08:24:44 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2023, 08:46:15 PM
Do the ECB have jurisdiction over either of those? Genuine question.
I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Post by: Monty on July 23, 2023, 08:53:46 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2023, 09:09:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2023, 09:19:50 PM
I think it's reasonable to take a break after 2 and 1/2 hours play. It's not about drinking tea.Do the ECB have jurisdiction over either of those? Genuine question.I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Reserve day would be an ICC decision and it's either every test match or none. Final is an exception. World can't change for a bloody Noah's Ark friendly Manchester.
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2023, 09:20:56 PM
Therefore ‘tea’ should be taken on the pitch in the form of energy drinks, energy gels and hydration, maybe a rub down from a masseuse, why is there a need to leave the field for an hour?Tea is always 20 minutes not an hour. Lunch is 40 mins.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2023, 09:26:16 PM
Therefore ‘tea’ should be taken on the pitch in the form of energy drinks, energy gels and hydration, maybe a rub down from a masseuse, why is there a need to leave the field for an hour?Tea is always 20 minutes not an hour. Lunch is 40 mins.
Sorry I meant an hour overall in the day.
It’s not like it’s an early start either. 11am until what about 7 if you’re lucky? So 7 hours of actual play. Soft lads.
Post by: olaftab on July 23, 2023, 09:34:22 PM
I'm thinking of the same thing Mr Beard.You both need to start planning. Next Ashes series in Australia is scheduled Nov 25 to Jan 26.
(https://i.ibb.co/0hf0qJb/Men-s-FTP-upto-2027.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0hf0qJb)
Post by: Brazilian Villain on July 23, 2023, 09:41:37 PM
I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Also need to get rid of that shitty, little trophy and have a proper cup for the series. Something with a bit more bling to appeal to a younger audience.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 23, 2023, 09:44:15 PM
I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Also need to get rid of that shitty, little trophy and have a proper cup for the series. Something with a bit more bling to appeal to a younger audience.
Yes. I’m with you on that, some big ass bling.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 23, 2023, 10:27:31 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 23, 2023, 11:19:40 PM
Point of order I’ve heard the Oval referenced as being a dead rubber, but that’s not true.
I've heard a few people saying things along these lines but its a daft argument. Yes England won't be able to regain the Ashes but there is a massive difference between winning/losing a Test series and drawing one. Australia haven't won a test series in England since 2001 and that alone is a massive incentive for both teams in the last test
Absolutely. Definitely do not want to be giving up our unbeaten home record since 2001 against them. This test has been very frustrating, but rain affected matches happen in this country and we wouldn't have minded one bit had the shoe been on the other foot.
Going 2-0 down after two games in a five match series has ultimately cost us. It was always going to be tough to win from there.
Post by: OzVilla on July 24, 2023, 06:00:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2023, 12:14:30 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 24, 2023, 01:10:09 PM
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2023, 03:49:20 PM
Pointless keeping Anderson in the squad, never mind in the XI. Tongue needs to play in his place.
Agreed, a very poor performance from him this series.
4 wickets in three matches, so not even one wicket an innings on average. 114 overs bowled, and in that time he's got one top order batsman out, Labuschagne. His other three wickets have been bowlers and Carey.
He's being picked on repuation and out of loyalty.
Post by: Drummond on July 24, 2023, 04:33:59 PM
I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Also need to get rid of that shitty, little trophy and have a proper cup for the series. Something with a bit more bling to appeal to a younger audience.
Yes. I’m with you on that, some big ass bling.
They could burn down Old Trafford or the MCG and put them in a bigger pot.
Post by: Richard E on July 24, 2023, 04:36:44 PM
Pointless keeping Anderson in the squad, never mind in the XI. Tongue needs to play in his place.
Agreed, a very poor performance from him this series.
4 wickets in three matches, so not even one wicket an innings on average. 114 overs bowled, and in that time he's got one top order batsman out, Labuschagne. His other three wickets have been bowlers and Carey.
He's being picked on repuation and out of loyalty.
Yes. He’s had his farewell test on his home ground and that should be it now, unfortunately.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2023, 06:43:07 PM
It’s such a shame he’s dropped off so much, he was excellent last summer. It’s not great seeing, probably, our best ever bowler fizzling out.
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2023, 07:30:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2023, 07:39:03 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 24, 2023, 07:46:20 PM
I still think Tongue not getting selected in that game was down to the tight turnaround as much as anything.Agreed, suspect they thought he’d struggle to keep up his pace with that turnaround…. had they not got to fit in that pointless, useless, pathetic hundred BS comp they might have played the tests in a proper schedule
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 24, 2023, 07:54:55 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 24, 2023, 07:57:54 PM
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2023, 08:04:56 PM
I think it was Ashley Giles on the wireless this morning saying early starts won’t work for test cricket and then went on to say that a 0930 start in England means a 0830 start in India and that wouldn’t work. I have no idea why he thinks that.
They were talking about this on R5 today, and the general consensus was that it's bollocks. The feeling is that the whole thing needs to be looked at, with start times, finish times, use of the lights, being sensible around lunch and tea etc, and having spare days built in all part of things that need looking at. People pay to see cricket and at the moment don't always get it, because of nonsense that's decades old. So if it's been raining all morning, and then stops, maybe fuck off the lunch break? Imagine how good it would be if they'd played today, England had won and the pinnacle of test cricket went to The Oval with the series at 2-2.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 24, 2023, 08:12:06 PM
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2023, 08:21:37 PM
Who the fuck is going to sit there for eight hours straight? It's not just about the players.
I don't think anybody was suggesting that as an option.
Post by: Risso on July 24, 2023, 08:22:24 PM
I think it was Ashley Giles on the wireless this morning saying early starts won’t work for test cricket and then went on to say that a 0930 start in England means a 0830 start in India and that wouldn’t work. I have no idea why he thinks that.
Apparently in the 2005 series, the start time was moved to 10.30am so that Channel 4 could have Hollyoaks on at its normal time.
Post by: Beard82 on July 24, 2023, 08:27:09 PM
Hollyoaks is on at 8:30 in India, surely that's enough to put you off your breakfast?I think it was Ashley Giles on the wireless this morning saying early starts won’t work for test cricket and then went on to say that a 0930 start in England means a 0830 start in India and that wouldn’t work. I have no idea why he thinks that.
Apparently in the 2005 series, the start time was moved to 10.30am so that Channel 4 could have Hollyoaks on at its normal time.
Post by: olaftab on July 24, 2023, 09:36:47 PM
Why do we need standard days? it’s all to do with records, ranking and Test championship. All test matches are played over 5 days with 7.5 hours day. 6.5 hours playing time.
So if the day was lengthened in England by whatever time it will have to be agreed as standard day in every country and for the reasons I have stated cricketing day in some countries can not be lengthened to more than 7.5 hours.
Post by: Gareth on July 26, 2023, 11:49:06 AM
Woakes seems to recovered from whatever kept him off the pitch
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2023, 11:58:35 AM
Happy with the rest of the side and glad Woakes is ok.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2023, 12:07:00 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 26, 2023, 12:15:48 PM
England unchanged….can’t help but think Anderson is a sentimental pick based on form…hope I’m wrong and he takes 10 in the match. Good that
Woakes seems to recovered from whatever kept him off the pitch
Yep, the Anderson selection is difficult to defend really and points to a culture of sentimentality and stubborness. Wouldn't be surprised if he carries on after this test to try and get to 700 wickets.
Post by: olaftab on July 26, 2023, 12:23:21 PM
The venues for the tour in India are a bit weird. Purposely keeping it out of the main hubs - what’s behind that?Economic development, distributing income elsewhere.
Post by: Gareth on July 26, 2023, 12:31:13 PM
England unchanged….can’t help but think Anderson is a sentimental pick based on form…hope I’m wrong and he takes 10 in the match. Good that
Woakes seems to recovered from whatever kept him off the pitch
Yep, the Anderson selection is difficult to defend really and points to a culture of sentimentality and stubborness. Wouldn't be surprised if he carries on after this test to try and get to 700 wickets.
Will be an interesting squad (particularly bowlers) to go to India, I thought if it had gone 3-0 he might have retired at Old Trafford…also wouldn’t be surprised if he goes to India after 700.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 26, 2023, 12:46:34 PM
The venues for the tour in India are a bit weird. Purposely keeping it out of the main hubs - what’s behind that?Economic development, distributing income elsewhere.
It’s quite extreme though isn’t it? I get it if you want to spread it about for a couple of games, but the whole series is surprising.
Post by: Drummond on July 26, 2023, 01:06:40 PM
His stats aren't particularly great though he is the best economy wise and second only to Robinson in numbers of maidens bowled across all bowlers in the series.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 26, 2023, 02:19:40 PM
England unchanged….can’t help but think Anderson is a sentimental pick based on form…hope I’m wrong and he takes 10 in the match. Good that
Woakes seems to recovered from whatever kept him off the pitch
Yep, the Anderson selection is difficult to defend really and points to a culture of sentimentality and stubborness. Wouldn't be surprised if he carries on after this test to try and get to 700 wickets.
Will be an interesting squad (particularly bowlers) to go to India, I thought if it had gone 3-0 he might have retired at Old Trafford…also wouldn’t be surprised if he goes to India after 700.
Presumably Moeen will be done again after this series, which is a shame as he balances the side out well. I know we haven't finished the Ashes yet, but going to India, we are probably going to need another spinner in the side.
If Stokes is finished as a bowler then we are going to need either a wicket keeper or a bowler who can bat in the top three really. They will continue with Duckett and Crawley as openers and with Root at four, Brook at five and Stokes at six. That leaves six spots for five bowlers and a keeper. Moeen at three just balances it so well, as you can then have the keeper at seven and four seamers, or three and Leach in India.
Bairstow could go to three again or Pope could keep at a bit of a long shot, but we would then need some extra batting at 7 ideally. Would like to see Sam Curran back in the fold really as he can offer that and offers a point of difference as a left armer.
Post by: olaftab on July 26, 2023, 03:06:18 PM
I think Anderson is getting his swansong. The last test won't now win the Ashes, so the pressure isn't on.The pressure IS on. It's very important not to lose series.
Post by: Risso on July 26, 2023, 03:11:09 PM
I think Anderson is getting his swansong. The last test won't now win the Ashes, so the pressure isn't on.
His stats aren't particularly great though he is the best economy wise and second only to Robinson in numbers of maidens bowled across all bowlers in the series.
His sawnsong should have been in Manchester. We needed to take wickets, not keep it tight.
Post by: German James on July 26, 2023, 03:20:40 PM
I think Anderson is getting his swansong.If that's behind his selection (and I can't really think of any other reason, off hand), it's an outrageous decision for a national sports team.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 26, 2023, 03:41:33 PM
I think Anderson is getting his swansong. The last test won't now win the Ashes, so the pressure isn't on.The pressure IS on. It's very important not to lose series.
Absolutely. The Aussies haven't won a test series up here since 2001 and it would be nice to keep it that way.
Post by: Nev on July 27, 2023, 07:33:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 09:56:21 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 27, 2023, 10:34:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 10:34:37 AM
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2023, 11:21:19 AM
Sentiment should play no part in Sport short of friendlies and testimonials, it should always be based on form and the development of future players. But we see it time and time again, particularly where the England football side is concerned.
Stokes looked hugely unintelligent when going on about Anderson yesterday. Nobody's denying that he's our greatest bowler ever, or has been brilliant for England. But time has caught up with him, and he's been rubbish this series. Meanwhile, Tongue who bowled well, looked dangerous and took wickets hasn't been played, in order to give Jimmy his swansong in the last two tests. Terrible captaincy to be honest.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 27, 2023, 11:40:57 AM
Post by: dubont on July 27, 2023, 12:03:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 12:04:48 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 12:19:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 12:23:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 12:23:41 PM
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2023, 12:25:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 27, 2023, 12:29:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 12:29:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 12:59:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 01:07:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 02:12:42 PM
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2023, 02:23:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 02:24:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 02:45:57 PM
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2023, 02:46:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 02:56:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2023, 03:04:12 PM
I think this is far from lost. We could easily get up around 300 still and I think this pitch is tricky.
I agree, it looked like the sort of pitch where you're never in this morning. The big question mark is whether it's going to flatten out. Australia clearly think it will which is why they're bowling to avoid a similar situation to Old Trafford.
Post by: Monty on July 27, 2023, 03:04:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2023, 03:17:03 PM
We could really do with cameos from the tail now, a quick 30-40 from Wood would be very useful.
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2023, 03:23:31 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 27, 2023, 03:28:15 PM
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2023, 03:29:14 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 27, 2023, 03:32:07 PM
Seems like we have done it again today. Started really well but then have given it away a bit when we probably just needed to change tack for a period. That is the one thing I hope we take out of this series really.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 27, 2023, 03:32:19 PM
If we can nudge 280/285 we should be OK.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 03:37:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 03:39:05 PM
Post by: Nev on July 27, 2023, 03:50:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 03:56:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2023, 03:56:53 PM
Those comments by Bairstow about proving people wrong in the last test now sound hollow and he appears to have proved people right. He was excellent in the last test but better let that speak for itself rather than make yourself look a plum. That being said, the conditions are tough.
Indeed, it all looks a bit Bruce-ian.
Post by: manic-road on July 27, 2023, 04:05:29 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 27, 2023, 04:27:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 27, 2023, 04:28:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 04:41:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 04:45:01 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 27, 2023, 04:54:16 PM
Mo’s injury is a blow.
Massive, looked like there was already a decent amount of spin to be found so he will have a big part to play here if the injury doesn't stop it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 05:33:30 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 27, 2023, 05:42:06 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 27, 2023, 05:55:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 05:55:23 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 27, 2023, 05:59:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 06:24:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 06:56:39 PM
Post by: Risso on July 27, 2023, 08:17:44 PM
Distinct lack of wickets from James Anderson.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 27, 2023, 08:31:52 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 27, 2023, 09:51:19 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 27, 2023, 10:41:43 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 27, 2023, 10:43:50 PM
Although I totally think Mo is done for this match…..if….he got on the field in the morning does he have to wait for the amount of overs he was off today before bowling?Yeah - same happened with Woakes(?) in the last test. As you say think hes done, apart from a maybe a lyon style batting performance if we need it
Post by: Villafirst on July 27, 2023, 11:23:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 06:59:39 AM
We need a big first session - if we get a couple of wickets early it looks quite different. Unfortunately I feel like that doesn’t happen when we come back to bowl the next morning.
Post by: Nev on July 28, 2023, 07:47:26 AM
Post by: Gareth on July 28, 2023, 10:20:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 10:21:12 AM
I appreciate there are concerns on gaming the system, but it does seem mad that in cricket a player can get a serious injury early in a Test but there’s no opportunity to replace them.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 28, 2023, 10:32:29 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 28, 2023, 10:36:38 AM
Moeen must be wondering why the feck he bothered taking Stokes' phone callEspecially if it rules him out of the World Cup.
Post by: Gareth on July 28, 2023, 11:23:56 AM
Moeen must be wondering why the feck he bothered taking Stokes' phone callPersonal landmark of getting 3000/200 double is pretty nice I guess
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 11:32:10 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 11:44:05 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 28, 2023, 11:59:46 AM
Leach isn't looking too good either for the WC so it's going to be tough playing without spinners over there.Moeen must be wondering why the feck he bothered taking Stokes' phone callEspecially if it rules him out of the World Cup.
Post by: olaftab on July 28, 2023, 12:03:03 PM
Tuffers - “I fancy Anderson to do really well on this wicket.”Terrible, unprofessional decision from England management to stick with James. Some very poor selection decisions have contributed to Ashes being kept by Aussies.
Distinct lack of wickets from James Anderson.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 12:11:19 PM
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2023, 12:11:52 PM
Tuffers - “I fancy Anderson to do really well on this wicket.”Terrible, unprofessional decision from England management to stick with James. Some very poor selection decisions have contributed to Ashes being kept by Aussies.
Distinct lack of wickets from James Anderson.
I make that 1 wicket in about 60 overs now.
Stokes strikes me as distinctly boorish and unintelligent. Perfect for Bazball when things are going well, or backs are totally against the wall, but lacking in any sort of nous when margins are fine and a bit of thought is required.
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 12:12:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 12:14:13 PM
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 12:26:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 12:28:14 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2023, 12:29:30 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on July 28, 2023, 12:32:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 01:02:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 01:11:08 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 28, 2023, 01:18:25 PM
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2023, 01:44:17 PM
Odd one with Anderson. Coming into the series I don't think anyone wouldn't have placed him as our number 1 bowler. So do three and a bit ineffectual tests really made it such a bad decision to keep picking him?
Yes.
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2023, 01:48:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 01:58:57 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 28, 2023, 02:00:53 PM
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 02:01:28 PM
Yep need another one, Smith is on the move and Head won’t hang about.
Well well well! A bad time to be a lefthander when Broad's in this mood.
Post by: dubont on July 28, 2023, 02:01:48 PM
Yep need another one, Smith is on the move and Head won’t hang about.
Head didn't hang about.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 28, 2023, 02:05:59 PM
Broad on fire. Aussies possibly about to pay the price for going nowhere this morning.
Yep. We didn't take wickets this morning, but Australia didn't really move forward. When you do that and lose a couple, you can be in trouble as you haven't got any momentum.
Question is, can we now really capitalise and get a decent sort of lead going into the 2nd innings.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 02:10:01 PM
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 02:14:24 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 02:22:52 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2023, 02:32:05 PM
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 02:34:14 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2023, 03:07:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 03:13:36 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 28, 2023, 03:14:11 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 28, 2023, 03:42:45 PM
Yep it’s been good. If we could get rid of Smith…
Just need to keep him off strike and attack the others. We can't let this drift now and could do with a good lead going into the 2nd innings.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 03:53:33 PM
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 04:18:26 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 28, 2023, 04:19:07 PM
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2023, 04:19:54 PM
Was going to ask do we put that down as yet more piss poor wicketkeeping or unfortunate?
He didn't take it cleanly and knocked one bail before he had the ball.
Post by: manic-road on July 28, 2023, 04:20:19 PM
Was going to ask do we put that down as yet more piss poor wicketkeeping or unfortunate?
Poor wicket keeping, he nudged the stumps before the ball had even reached him.
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 04:22:27 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 28, 2023, 04:23:24 PM
Post by: Monty on July 28, 2023, 04:24:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 04:35:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 04:58:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 05:07:16 PM
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2023, 05:21:29 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 28, 2023, 05:23:22 PM
Just saw tweet from George Dobell saying Mo can’t bat until 120 minutes or 5th wicket….let’s hope openers do 120 mins before a wicket falls at the pace they bat :-)
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 05:32:07 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 28, 2023, 05:35:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 05:48:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 06:38:55 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 28, 2023, 06:40:02 PM
Frustrating in a way, but this morning I would have bitten your hand off for a 12 run defecit. We have to get the balance right tomorrow. The bowlers need a bit of rest.Yep. They need two nights rest before bowling again. Thanks to Lynch I've had to seek my tickets for tomorrow.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 28, 2023, 07:11:31 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 28, 2023, 07:26:02 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 28, 2023, 07:38:19 PM
Frustrating in a way, but this morning I would have bitten your hand off for a 12 run defecit. We have to get the balance right tomorrow. The bowlers need a bit of rest.
Aye.
Whatever else about the Aussies being cheating cynical sugarbags (and they are) England have just lacked that extra zip at crucial times to finish them off.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 08:37:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 08:39:27 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 28, 2023, 09:45:11 PM
We really need a couple of players to stand up.
Yep, it’s a one innings game now. One big score from someone could be match winning. If we can score 320 plus this time round I think it might be enough.
Post by: Risso on July 28, 2023, 09:55:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 28, 2023, 10:21:17 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 29, 2023, 07:08:02 AM
Today is the day to show what we can do with the bat. I think we will score heavily today, losing a steady stream of wickets, and setting up a nail-biting end to the series.
Anyhow, I shall be there in my England bucket hat.
Post by: manic-road on July 29, 2023, 08:42:39 AM
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2023, 10:04:41 AM
No probably not, but equally we bowled really well to get them in the position we did. We’ll see how it plays out but put into bat and getting less than 300 I’d take parity going into the third innings, especially without our spinner. Now on us to do a good job batting. I do think we need to bat for ideally a day because the four main bowlers bowled a lot of overs. They need a rest.
Yes they all looked buggered by the end of yesterday, especially Wood.
Post by: Nev on July 29, 2023, 10:17:32 AM
Of course, it would also ramp up the tension and excitement for everyone following it, weaving it's way through our summer.
I'm delighted that professional football returns in 6 days, I hope it blows the junk food pyjamarama out of the water.
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2023, 10:56:02 AM
Cramming in back to back tests is another load of nonsense driven by the H*****d, decimating the calendar and shagging out the players. A decent spread of the tests through the summer would improve the chances of players recovering from injury and improve the element of competition without excuses being thrown up.
Of course, it would also ramp up the tension and excitement for everyone following it, weaving it's way through our summer.
I'm delighted that professional football returns in 6 days, I hope it blows the junk food pyjamarama out of the water.
Good points Nev. Also on TMS yesterday there was universal agreement that they urgently need to have another look at the issue of injured players, such as bringing back runners. Everything else is just counter-productive to the game as a whole and the individual player's well being.
Post by: Monty on July 29, 2023, 11:00:27 AM
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2023, 11:01:40 AM
Post by: Monty on July 29, 2023, 11:04:25 AM
Post by: manic-road on July 29, 2023, 11:34:04 AM
Post by: Risso on July 29, 2023, 11:44:23 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 12:32:50 PM
Can't be long until Crawley gets his eye out.
Top run scorer in the series. Totally vindicating the selectors faith
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 12:33:22 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 12:53:09 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 12:53:54 PM
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
Post by: Monty on July 29, 2023, 12:57:01 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 29, 2023, 01:03:20 PM
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
He was given out after the Aussies reviewed
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 01:03:20 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 29, 2023, 01:04:10 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 01:11:06 PM
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
He was given out after the Aussies reviewed
He was but even with the "evidence" of snicko, he didn't hit that for me. Seemed to be a clear gap between bat and ball
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 29, 2023, 01:18:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 29, 2023, 01:26:38 PM
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
He was given out after the Aussies reviewed
He was but even with the "evidence" of snicko, he didn't hit that for me. Seemed to be a clear gap between bat and ball
I’m not so sure, what caused the snicko noise that was illustrated by the spike?
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 01:51:53 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 02:07:30 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 02:18:49 PM
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
He was given out after the Aussies reviewed
He was but even with the "evidence" of snicko, he didn't hit that for me. Seemed to be a clear gap between bat and ball
I’m not so sure, what caused the snicko noise that was illustrated by the spike?
No idea, but for me the ball was away from the bat
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 29, 2023, 02:51:08 PM
Post by: Monty on July 29, 2023, 02:56:30 PM
Post by: Monty on July 29, 2023, 03:05:34 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 03:06:02 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 29, 2023, 03:30:27 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 29, 2023, 03:31:20 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2023, 03:44:13 PM
I wouldn't bet against this Australian side chasing down 320/330 if they need to.
Pitch seems to have flattened out a bit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 03:52:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 04:33:37 PM
I wouldn't bet against this Australian side chasing down 320/330 if they need to.I would. Have you looked at their scores in this series? We need to kill the "this australian side" myth, they are shit and they should be told they are!
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 04:41:33 PM
Pitch has flattened but this’ll be the best day to bat. If we bat to the close we’ll be in a very strong position.But please tell Stokes there is no need to declare today regardless of score.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 04:42:43 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2023, 04:50:30 PM
Let scoreboard pressure do for the Aussies.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 05:10:33 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 05:11:18 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 29, 2023, 05:12:01 PM
That one kept really low
Turned a bit as well.
Post by: Monty on July 29, 2023, 05:12:54 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 05:14:54 PM
Post by: Rory on July 29, 2023, 05:18:45 PM
I think its more the overhead conditions being better for batting than the pitch flattening. Should be plenty of cloud cover over the last couple of days
Don't know if anybody else listens to the Tailenders podcast, but there was an interesting (brief) chat on the most recent one about cloud cover, and Jimmy said he doesn't believe it makes the slightest difference to the amount the ball swings.
I've always thought clouds were good news for seamers and bad for batsmen, but apparently there isn't much evidence for this. *shrugs*
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2023, 05:34:27 PM
That one kept really low
Aye, nothing much he could do about that.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 05:49:24 PM
Good thing is they’ve given the bowlers a good rest. Hopefully we can get another 60 odd.
Post by: manic-road on July 29, 2023, 05:58:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 05:58:41 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 05:59:36 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 06:01:45 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:09:30 PM
They also need to get rid of the ridiculous arbitrary rule of only 30 minutes being added to the day. If the light is fine then make them bowl the overs.
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 06:14:06 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:14:53 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:17:11 PM
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2023, 06:17:37 PM
Don't look like a beaten side.
Wood tossing his wicket away now as well.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 06:18:11 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:20:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:21:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 06:34:03 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:35:08 PM
Joel Wilson has had a terrible series.
He's a terrible umpire
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2023, 06:35:54 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:41:13 PM
All the current regulation of only 30 minutes being added does is encourage teams to bowl at a snails pace when they are behind in the game.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 06:42:25 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 06:43:43 PM
Excellent day from England. I would have bit your hand off for that at the start of the day.
Yeah overall it has been a great day. They lost the plot the last hour or so though.
Post by: aj2k77 on July 29, 2023, 06:44:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 06:47:08 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 29, 2023, 06:54:07 PM
Broad retiring, quite the surprise.
I didn’t see that coming, he’s been fantastic in this series
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 29, 2023, 06:58:22 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 06:58:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 07:00:28 PM
Excellent day from England. I would have bit your hand off for that at the start of the day.
Yeah overall it has been a great day. They lost the plot the last hour or so though.
Maybe, I think Australia bowled well. Also I think it’s a day where they deserve praise, Australia are massively behind in this game.
Post by: olaftab on July 29, 2023, 07:01:13 PM
End of an era. Bet the Aussies are looking forward to one last bowling innings from him! :DIf Warner has any decency he should tap his first ball gently back to him tomorrow.
Post by: nigel on July 29, 2023, 07:42:19 PM
Day and a half to bowl them out.
Post by: Villa Lew on July 29, 2023, 07:49:30 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 29, 2023, 07:51:39 PM
I reckon the target is already near impossible for them on this pitch and with our attack.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 08:04:52 PM
What unbelievable players they have been. They deserve to go out on a high tomorrow or Monday.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 29, 2023, 08:16:07 PM
However, the way that he’s announced it isn’t a surprise.
End of a day during the fifth ashes when he’s guaranteed to be either batting or bowling the next morning.
He likes the limelight does Stuart.
Jimmy, however, I can see announcing his retirement on a wet Wednesday in November
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 08:26:21 PM
Surprised that Broady is retiring.
However, the way that he’s announced it isn’t a surprise.
End of a day during the fifth ashes when he’s guaranteed to be either batting or bowling the next morning.
He likes the limelight does Stuart.
Jimmy, however, I can see announcing his retirement on a wet Wednesday in November
Good luck to him - hopefully he motivates him to knock them over.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 09:00:09 PM
Post by: Rory on July 29, 2023, 09:01:49 PM
I think Australia’s negativity will bury them. They’ll have half a mind on the fact a draw wins them the series. They’ll get entrenched.
At the rate they've scored this series it'll take them the full two days to reach the total anyway.
Post by: KevinGage on July 29, 2023, 09:05:27 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 29, 2023, 09:48:37 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 29, 2023, 10:00:47 PM
Really surprised at Broad retiring. He's been very good all series and easily had at least another couple of years in him. Its understandable though how he wants to go out whilst he still loves the game. I suspect that this will be the last time we see Anderson in an England shirt too.
What unbelievable players they have been. They deserve to go out on a high tomorrow or Monday.
I’m not surprised to be honest. He’s just passed the major landmark of 600 wickets, so there won’t really be another one in sight for some time. To finish with an Ashes series is probably the best way to go.
It should be time for Jimmy as well really, but I think he has got 700 wickets in his sight and won’t be wanting to go anywhere soon.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 10:10:46 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 29, 2023, 10:54:51 PM
To honest Broad going means it’s probably helpful if Jimmy hangs on. He bowled better this game, so be interesting to see how he goes tomorrow.
Robinson is the obvious like for like replacement for Broad (if he can stay fit). Woakes could potentially open in place of Anderson (again if he can stay fit).
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 29, 2023, 10:59:19 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 29, 2023, 10:59:19 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 29, 2023, 11:33:19 PM
A bowling attack of Wood, Archer, Woakes and Tongue would be great to watch. Sadly the fitness of the 1st 2 is what will hold that idea back
Yeah the composition of the side going forward will be interesting. I wonder if Stokes at 3 might be a glimpse of the future if he can't bowl anymore. Would probably mean Bairstow going to six and then five bowling options.
It will be interesting to see if they can persuade Moeen Ali to stay on, particularly for the series in India. He just balances the side so well and could bat 7 in the above line up, with Leach also being able to fit in along with 3 seamers.
Anyway, getting a bit ahead of myself there. We've still got two days at the Oval left.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 29, 2023, 11:41:58 PM
Jimmy needs to do the same as Broad. We need to get Archer fit and move forward. They have been absolutely brilliant for us, for many years and earn their status of legend. Hopefully, we win this test to go out on a high.
Archer is never going to play another test. We need to stop thinking he will.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 29, 2023, 11:44:47 PM
Post by: Ads on July 30, 2023, 08:46:42 AM
Khawaja, Warner and Lyon will be done. Smith will be 37 and potentially gone too. Mitch Starc at 36 potentially gone. Hazelwood 35- maybe gone too.
Certainly the last Ashes in England for that lot and Cummins.
Post by: olaftab on July 30, 2023, 10:22:33 AM
Post by: olaftab on July 30, 2023, 10:23:53 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 30, 2023, 10:58:08 AM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 30, 2023, 11:10:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 11:11:16 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 30, 2023, 11:11:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 11:14:39 AM
Post by: KevinGage on July 30, 2023, 11:38:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 12:07:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 01:05:53 PM
Post by: Monty on July 30, 2023, 01:06:36 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 30, 2023, 02:24:42 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 30, 2023, 02:44:02 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 30, 2023, 02:50:48 PM
Rain has started just in time! :D
Rain is the last thing England want.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 30, 2023, 02:54:54 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 30, 2023, 03:16:15 PM
It's all looking a bit ominous at the moment. Nothing in the pitch and we've got a part time spinner bowling piesYes England were stupid last night but should still win this if weather allows.
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 30, 2023, 03:17:53 PM
Rain has started just in time! :D
Rain is the last thing England want.
I'll take rain all day today and tomorrow, as it looks like the alternative is 3-1 to the Aussies which would really flatter them.
What a heap of garbage Dukes have produced, no swing and bowlers constantly unhappy with it.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 30, 2023, 03:23:18 PM
It's all looking a bit ominous at the moment. Nothing in the pitch and we've got a part time spinner bowling piesYes England were stupid last night but should still win this if weather allows.
Can't see us bowling them out. The pitch is getting better and better to bat on and we are bowling poorly
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 30, 2023, 04:29:45 PM
Rain has started just in time! :D
Rain is the last thing England want.
I'll take rain all day today and tomorrow, as it looks like the alternative is 3-1 to the Aussies which would really flatter them.
What a heap of garbage Dukes have produced, no swing and bowlers constantly unhappy with it.
Nah, it doesn't matter if it's 2-1 or 3-1 now, I'd rather have the chance to beat them.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 04:53:28 PM
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2023, 05:01:31 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 05:42:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 07:17:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 30, 2023, 07:38:53 PM
Post by: Risso on July 30, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 31, 2023, 05:40:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:49:18 AM
Post by: Nev on July 31, 2023, 09:33:02 AM
Fucking Boooooooooooooooooooo!
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 31, 2023, 11:22:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 11:29:43 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 11:37:35 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 11:41:46 AM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 11:48:27 AM
Woakes is bowling superbly here, the delivery to get Khawaja was unplayable.
If only he'd been in all series, FFS! Easily England's best player at the moment.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 11:48:36 AM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 12:01:25 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on July 31, 2023, 12:06:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 12:07:07 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 12:08:04 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 12:14:01 PM
17 wickets at an average of just over 18 and he missed Edgbaston and Lords where he has fantastic records for England.
Exactly. Of all the reasons we haven't won the Ashes back, this will be the main one. Entirely self inflicted as well.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 12:15:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 12:15:57 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 12:22:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 12:27:13 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 12:27:26 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 12:32:32 PM
The fact that he hasn't announced his retirement, does that mean he's actually carrying on?
Post by: Monty on July 31, 2023, 12:42:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 12:45:20 PM
Advantage Australia again. We really needed to limit them to 200-4, 200-5 to feel in control. 200-3, with Smith and Head both looking dangerous and Jimmy lacking bite, doesn't feel great.
I'd still rather be in our position right now but another wicket before lunch would be massive.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 12:47:30 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 31, 2023, 12:48:19 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 12:54:50 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 01:16:32 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 01:28:12 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 31, 2023, 01:30:59 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 01:32:10 PM
Come on rain, where are you?
That's not going to help us get them out. If it rains for a while, it'll stay 2-1 rather than 3-1, which is still a series defeat.
Post by: Monty on July 31, 2023, 01:33:46 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 31, 2023, 01:34:20 PM
Come on rain, where are you?
That's not going to help us get them out. If it rains for a while, it'll stay 2-1 rather than 3-1, which is still a series defeat.
I don't mind 2-1, but 3-1 will be taking the piss. I guess we pay for picking half fit bowlers or old ones for sentimental reasons.
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 01:43:10 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 01:52:32 PM
I cannot, cannot believe that.
When your luck's out, it's properly out. Stokes knew what he'd done. Not sure why he was moaning about the review either.
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 02:10:05 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 02:13:23 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 31, 2023, 02:14:30 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 02:18:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 02:19:16 PM
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
The thing is, if he'd thrown it up at the same time (after taking the catch) no one would be questioning it, that's why it's so borderline. I reckon part of the problem was that he looked gutted, if he'd carried on celebrating I reckon it might've been given out.
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 02:24:11 PM
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
The thing is, if he'd thrown it up at the same time (after taking the catch) no one would be questioning it, that's why it's so borderline. I reckon part of the problem was that he looked gutted, if he'd carried on celebrating I reckon it might've been given out.
Rather reminds me of a certain Villa keeper looking sooo guilty about a borderline own goal that he made it easy for the attention seeking moron 50 yards away to give a goal
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2023, 02:24:54 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 02:25:53 PM
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
The thing is, if he'd thrown it up at the same time (after taking the catch) no one would be questioning it, that's why it's so borderline. I reckon part of the problem was that he looked gutted, if he'd carried on celebrating I reckon it might've been given out.
Rather reminds me of a certain Villa keeper looking sooo guilty about a borderline own goal that he made it easy for the attention seeking moron 50 yards away to give a goal
Yeah, perfect example, I think the reaction of the player has a much bigger impact than you might expect and the seemingly default reaction of looking crestfallen about the mistake pushes the ref in the other direction.
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 02:31:52 PM
It's indicative of a lack of care or professionalism that has effectively lost us the seriesI can’t say I disagree with you. Unprofessional in selection, play and effective execution.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 02:48:59 PM
Yeah, perfect example, I think the reaction of the player has a much bigger impact than you might expect and the seemingly default reaction of looking crestfallen about the mistake pushes the ref in the other direction.
Yes, a good comparison. They also probably had the Aussie grounding at the back of their minds as well.
Post by: London Villan on July 31, 2023, 03:34:00 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 04:18:44 PM
52 overs
7 wickets
146 runs
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 31, 2023, 04:22:10 PM
So close to winning this series 2-1, but for an act of bravado on day 1 and persisting with a player that has clearly past his best.
What cost us more in the first test, and also here in hindsight, was not being able to clean up their tail, especially Pat Cummins.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2023, 04:26:36 PM
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
Right decision on the catch but wrong that England lost a review. They were reviewing whether Smith hit it (which he did).
It’s down to the Umpires to decide whether it was a clean/completed catch
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 04:26:57 PM
So close to winning this series 2-1, but for an act of bravado on day 1 and persisting with a player that has clearly past his best.
What cost us more in the first test, and also here in hindsight, was not being able to clean up their tail, especially Pat Cummins.
Yep, as I've been saying for a while, the bowling and fielding was much more of a problem than the batting in the first 2 tests.
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 04:33:59 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 04:47:21 PM
Post by: London Villan on July 31, 2023, 04:52:15 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 04:53:03 PM
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
The thing is, if he'd thrown it up at the same time (after taking the catch) no one would be questioning it, that's why it's so borderline. I reckon part of the problem was that he looked gutted, if he'd carried on celebrating I reckon it might've been given out.
I have just got in and am catching up with it. I thought he caught the ball, but then it went to ground with his second movement when he went to throw it up and it caught his leg.
I think it would be hard to argue that he was in control of his body though given that his leg was still up in the air.
Post by: Villafirst on July 31, 2023, 04:53:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 04:54:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 04:56:17 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 04:56:30 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2023, 04:57:33 PM
Great wicket for Moeen, if anything he's getting too much spin to the right handers but against a leftie one going across you like that is really hard to deal with.
He has to go round the wicket to the right hander.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 04:58:32 PM
Just can't see it... even with that wicket. We have one crocked bowler in Wood and Anderson who just hasn't done it across the series...
Looking that way unfortunately. Their openers did really well yesterday to be fair and have set this up.
Post by: dubont on July 31, 2023, 04:59:20 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 04:59:23 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2023, 04:59:25 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2023, 05:00:10 PM
Now it’s game on…..the pantomime villain in to bay…hope the bugger is walking back as quickly
I now really wish that Broad hadn't have said that "that's all you'll be remembered for" to Carey at Lords....
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 05:02:57 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 31, 2023, 05:03:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 05:04:02 PM
and there's the 6th.
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 31, 2023, 05:04:50 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 05:05:23 PM
Stunning grab
Post by: Nev on July 31, 2023, 05:05:25 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 31, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 31, 2023, 05:09:18 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on July 31, 2023, 05:10:44 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 31, 2023, 05:11:45 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 31, 2023, 05:16:27 PM
Cummins in though, and we know what happened first test...Stop it!
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 05:17:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 05:23:11 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 05:30:07 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 05:30:10 PM
Cummins is key, we need him gone.Your wish is Mo’s command
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 05:31:11 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 05:32:38 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 05:33:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 05:34:45 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 05:35:49 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 31, 2023, 05:41:29 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 05:42:51 PM
What a rollercoaster this has been. Shite to brilliant in an afternoon.
It's been like that the whole series
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2023, 05:46:45 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on July 31, 2023, 05:51:45 PM
Quote from: Andy Zaltzman
Here is a full list of England bowlers who have taken six or more wickets in three consecutive home Ashes Tests within the same series:
Alec Bedser in 1953
Jim Laker in 1956
Chris Woakes in 2023
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 05:58:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:00:03 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2023, 06:00:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 06:01:04 PM
Murphy and Carey can absolutely win this. This is too easy for them now.
Woakes goes off and the game gets easier for them, it's been true for 3 tests now.
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 31, 2023, 06:04:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:04:53 PM
Post by: Villafirst on July 31, 2023, 06:05:04 PM
Post by: Monty on July 31, 2023, 06:06:04 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on July 31, 2023, 06:06:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:07:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 06:07:25 PM
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 31, 2023, 06:09:08 PM
What a rollercoaster this has been. Shite to brilliant in an afternoon.
It's been like that the whole series
Pretty much yes.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:09:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:11:10 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 06:12:26 PM
Broad is just going for runs. This total is coming down fast.
He is but this spell has deserved more than he's got, and there's the reward, 1 to go.
Post by: UK Redsox on July 31, 2023, 06:13:11 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 06:14:01 PM
Post by: Proposition Joe on July 31, 2023, 06:16:57 PM
Broady swaps the bails and gets a wicket next ball :)
... again ... :)
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 31, 2023, 06:17:39 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 06:17:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:22:49 PM
Post by: Nev on July 31, 2023, 06:23:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 06:25:50 PM
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on July 31, 2023, 06:26:31 PM
(I'll get my coat...).
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 06:26:58 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 31, 2023, 06:27:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:27:46 PM
Post by: Richard E on July 31, 2023, 06:27:54 PM
Stuart Broad, what a fucking player
Brilliant bowler and a world class shithouser too. What’s not to love?
Post by: dave shelley on July 31, 2023, 06:29:31 PM
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 06:29:56 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:30:09 PM
Post by: manic-road on July 31, 2023, 06:31:30 PM
Now it’s game on…..the pantomime villain in to bay…hope the bugger is walking back as quickly
I now really wish that Broad hadn't have said that "that's all you'll be remembered for" to Carey at Lords....
Oh I don't know.
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 06:31:48 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 06:32:13 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 06:32:37 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 06:33:09 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 06:34:17 PM
Enjoyed being at Headingley, Old Trafford and The Oval. Just wish I'd had tickets for Lords and Edgbaston now!
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 06:35:27 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 06:38:12 PM
Post by: Nev on July 31, 2023, 06:39:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 06:39:29 PM
Telling that Anderson didn't get on after the rainIt's a shame how Jimmy is finishing and even more so when you look at Broady's farewell.
Post by: Richard E on July 31, 2023, 06:40:29 PM
Post by: London Villan on July 31, 2023, 06:43:33 PM
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2023, 06:45:53 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 06:47:03 PM
We could justifiably have won this series 4 or 5-0.I couldn't disagree with that less ;D
Post by: Lsvilla on July 31, 2023, 06:47:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 06:53:18 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 06:57:24 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on July 31, 2023, 06:59:42 PM
We could justifiably have won this series 4 or 5-0.
Not sure about that but I will say that but for the weather a win at Old Trafford was nailed on. Manchester fucking it up again.
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 06:59:59 PM
Thank god that boring test cricket is done and we can start The Hundred tomorrow.I am quite looking forward to a visit down under in 25/26 as it should not be the repeat of humiliation of last tour in 17/18. Not counting the one in between.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on July 31, 2023, 07:07:35 PM
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 07:19:11 PM
We won that series and no one can ever tell me different.
Yep a 2-2 win. Imagine if the Villa had done that, an extra 14 points last season. We'd have Champions League football.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 07:27:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 07:33:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 07:35:52 PM
Post by: Beard82 on July 31, 2023, 07:44:11 PM
Im not even a little annoyed that I was there yesterday, rather than today!
Post by: Lsvilla on July 31, 2023, 07:49:51 PM
Yeah me too. Had always done Melbourne / Sydney historically with one trip to Perth, but at the World Cup last year went to both Brisbane and Adelaide for the first time and would like to spend more time at both.Thank god that boring test cricket is done and we can start The Hundred tomorrow.I am quite looking forward to a visit down under in 25/26 as it should not be the repeat of humiliation of last tour in 17/18. Not counting the one in between.
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 08:01:30 PM
Also I’ve had concerns about a few specific decisions, but there’s no doubt our approach to Test cricket is spot on. In 18 months we’ve gone from hopeless to matching/arguably bettering the best side in the world.
Agreed, this is why I was getting frustrated at people moaning about bazball at the start of the series, it was application not intent that caused the problems in the first 2, and largely because we had an attack that was a mess and looked undercooked in the field. If we'd had Woakes and Wood available and selected for all 5 I think we'd be celebrating a 4-0 and mourning the loss of a whitewash to the Manchester weather.
To go back I moaned about Robinson a lot in the first 2 matches and the reason is because of the difference between what he was doing and what Woakes did. Robinson took a few wickets but also bowled a lot of poor spells where he allowed them to coast at 3-4 an over with little risk. Woakes on the other hand only bowled like that for a few brief periods where the pitch was offering nothing, and even then he helped slow the scoring rate and build pressure in another way. As it turns out Anderson out for Woakes would've been the right call.
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 08:03:14 PM
Post by: LeeB on July 31, 2023, 08:04:05 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 08:05:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 08:09:54 PM
Also I’ve had concerns about a few specific decisions, but there’s no doubt our approach to Test cricket is spot on. In 18 months we’ve gone from hopeless to matching/arguably bettering the best side in the world.
Agreed, this is why I was getting frustrated at people moaning about bazball at the start of the series, it was application not intent that caused the problems in the first 2, and largely because we had an attack that was a mess and looked undercooked in the field. If we'd had Woakes and Wood available and selected for all 5 I think we'd be celebrating a 4-0 and mourning the loss of a whitewash to the Manchester weather.
To go back I moaned about Robinson a lot in the first 2 matches and the reason is because of the difference between what he was doing and what Woakes did. Robinson took a few wickets but also bowled a lot of poor spells where he allowed them to coast at 3-4 an over with little risk. Woakes on the other hand only bowled like that for a few brief periods where the pitch was offering nothing, and even then he helped slow the scoring rate and build pressure in another way. As it turns out Anderson out for Woakes would've been the right call.
Yeah I still think Robinson is a quality bowler. Had he played instead of Jimmy he would have contributed more I think.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 08:11:26 PM
Woakes should be first pick in home tests, especially with Broad now gone.
He will be I suspect. The curiosity is his poor form away from home. I get that moving it is important, but he’s skilful enough and gets enough bounce that you’d think he’d be more effective.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 31, 2023, 08:22:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on July 31, 2023, 08:24:24 PM
It’s so disheartening that we’ve got a Test summer against Sri Lanka and West Indies. Not a reflection of either team, they’ve both got amazing legacies, but it reflects on how badly cricket has been managed that it’s two 3 test series against two underfunded and under supported sides.Here is something I heard earlier that is disheartening even more. In the next 12 months England will play 11 Test matches which is good however Australia play nearly the same number (12) in the next 3 years against just 3 countries and that is bad for Test cricket when one of the major rich cricket countries isolate themselves like that.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 08:25:50 PM
Australian press going into a meltdown over the ball change is just beautiful.
Oh the irony
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 08:29:50 PM
It’s so disheartening that we’ve got a Test summer against Sri Lanka and West Indies. Not a reflection of either team, they’ve both got amazing legacies, but it reflects on how badly cricket has been managed that it’s two 3 test series against two underfunded and under supported sides.Here is something I heard earlier that is disheartening even more. In the next 12 months England will play 11 Test matches which is good however Australia play nearly the same number (12) in the next 3 years against just 3 countries and that is bad for Test cricket when one of the major rich cricket countries isolate themselves like that.
I think it was Glen McGrath on TMS who said he was worried about the next generation of batsmen coming through, that they aren’t top quality players. He thought they were being hampered by too much T20 cricket. Playing so few tests over the next three years won’t help them fix that issue.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 08:30:17 PM
It’s so disheartening that we’ve got a Test summer against Sri Lanka and West Indies. Not a reflection of either team, they’ve both got amazing legacies, but it reflects on how badly cricket has been managed that it’s two 3 test series against two underfunded and under supported sides.Here is something I heard earlier that is disheartening even more. In the next 12 months England will play 11 Test matches which is good however Australia play nearly the same number (12) in the next 3 years against just 3 countries and that is bad for Test cricket when one of the major rich cricket countries isolate themselves like that.
Yep agreed it’s ridiculous. I’m not a short-form hater, I enjoy it. But quality Test cricket is the best form - they need to work how that can be delivered.
Post by: Jon Crofts on July 31, 2023, 08:35:45 PM
Australian press going into a meltdown over the ball change is just beautiful.
Oh the irony
Completely lost on them.
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 09:01:41 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 09:15:39 PM
For me it all turned on Lyon getting injured, for 100 consecutive tests to come to an end at just the right time was a definite stroke of luck.
Woakes and Wood coming good was awesome, hopefully Woakes will get the appreciation he deserves now.
Mo answering the SOS was big too, getting 3000/200 double is reward for his career…his calm nature was
also massive, saw it today when everyone was getting excited about a lbw shout and as the bowler to see him calmly dismiss it was good to see. When you think back on his career, he has rescued England spin dept twice, when Swann retired he stepped up as ‘part-timer’ when no one else was up to it & this summer when no one would have been better with leach injured.
Was so fitting that Broad took the winning wicket, that Bairstow caught it and it was Carey :-)
Some big shoes to fill!!!
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 09:26:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on July 31, 2023, 09:27:52 PM
There's been no attempt to make Test Cricket more competitive or watchable, and it's really happened almost by chance that England have changed the way it's played and upped the excitement stakes. I'm not talking about playing it in silly pyjamas or other gimmicks, but they need to buck their ideas up.
Yeah I mean not chronically underfunding it would be a start.
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 09:56:36 PM
Post by: Pete3206 on July 31, 2023, 09:57:25 PM
Anyway, up the fucking England!
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2023, 09:58:57 PM
Also I’ve had concerns about a few specific decisions, but there’s no doubt our approach to Test cricket is spot on. In 18 months we’ve gone from hopeless to matching/arguably bettering the best side in the world.
Agreed, this is why I was getting frustrated at people moaning about bazball at the start of the series, it was application not intent that caused the problems in the first 2, and largely because we had an attack that was a mess and looked undercooked in the field. If we'd had Woakes and Wood available and selected for all 5 I think we'd be celebrating a 4-0 and mourning the loss of a whitewash to the Manchester weather.
To go back I moaned about Robinson a lot in the first 2 matches and the reason is because of the difference between what he was doing and what Woakes did. Robinson took a few wickets but also bowled a lot of poor spells where he allowed them to coast at 3-4 an over with little risk. Woakes on the other hand only bowled like that for a few brief periods where the pitch was offering nothing, and even then he helped slow the scoring rate and build pressure in another way. As it turns out Anderson out for Woakes would've been the right call.
Yeah I still think Robinson is a quality bowler. Had he played instead of Jimmy he would have contributed more I think.
Sorry for quoting you bother here chaps. Paul-e, you're still thinking the reckless declaration didn't cost us? I think it did but having said that, what followed was excellent from Stokes and I genuinely think that, looking back, deep down, he wouldn't do it again if he had the choice, not against Australia. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but against the so called best in the world, experimenting is not a time for experimenting. I guess we will never know. I think England played much more sensibly after the first test and had it not been for the rain in Manchester, we would be holding the urn and not those scabby, cheats.
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 10:00:47 PM
Missed everything today due to work, but heard a bit in the car and the Talksport reporter was getting really excited as the wickets tumbled. He handed back to the studio and Danny Murphy with no emotion whatsoever said "you do know we've lost the ashes?". I'm pleased to report that the reporter took the ignorant prick to task at length.
Anyway, up the fucking England!
It was Danny Murphy…guy is an utter plank who thinks he’s intelligent. But then he is employed by Talksport who have a handful of good presenters and the likes of Murphy / O’Hara / Gabby
Post by: Steve67 on July 31, 2023, 10:01:14 PM
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 10:05:04 PM
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 10:10:14 PM
On to other things, where are the bowlers going to come from. Stone seems to be permanently injured, as does Archer. I hadn't realised that Villa's Chris Woakes is 34 either. Wood is 32. Potts hasn't had a look in this summer. Is Tongue going to make the grade?
That’s a biggie, presume there are winter tours both main team and Lions….be v interesting who is picked both pace and spin bowlers.
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 10:27:43 PM
Add Robinson to the mix and we seem to be pretty well stocked.
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 10:29:45 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 10:31:20 PM
On to other things, where are the bowlers going to come from. Stone seems to be permanently injured, as does Archer. I hadn't realised that Villa's Chris Woakes is 34 either. Wood is 32. Potts hasn't had a look in this summer. Is Tongue going to make the grade?
That’s a biggie, presume there are winter tours both main team and Lions….be v interesting who is picked both pace and spin bowlers.
The winter tour for the test squad is to India so Woakes, Anderson - I’m not totally convinced that he’s about to retire - and Wood won’t go but someone like Sam Curran will.
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 10:46:23 PM
Presume Leach will be fit for the tour, Root will get a good few overs and guess Ahmed will get another chance
Post by: Villan For Life on July 31, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
Guess they will have a decision to make on Stokes too, is there anything they can do to get him bowling again? Heard on TMS the other day that he was sending down some off spin in the nets….
Presume Leach will be fit for the tour, Root will get a good few overs and guess Ahmed will get another chance
I think Stokes will now have an operation on his dodgy knee, hopefully he’s not done yet.
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 10:54:57 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 10:56:52 PM
Guess they will have a decision to make on Stokes too, is there anything they can do to get him bowling again? Heard on TMS the other day that he was sending down some off spin in the nets….
Presume Leach will be fit for the tour, Root will get a good few overs and guess Ahmed will get another chance
He mentioned bowling off spin in the post match interview as well. Would tick a big box (especially for the next series in India) if he can become a test level spin option.
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 11:06:41 PM
Woakes deservedly England's player of the series (though Wood must have been close), but was surprised at Starc being Australia's as I thought Pat Cummins had a better series.
The debrief will now begin about the merits of 'Bazball' and how England move forward.
Post by: KevinGage on July 31, 2023, 11:47:38 PM
Hopefully, need the balance of him bowling - get a bowling quota out of him and Root
Heavy duty surgery on the knee at that age prob means he's done as a pace bowler.
Better that he lightens the workload to ensure he's not done as a cricketer. Pope may make a decent England captain in time. But Bazball without Stokes in the middle will be harder to perpetuate.
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2023, 12:12:16 AM
So happy with that win, think 2-2 is fair -No, honestly 2-2 is NOT fair. Their only fair win was at Lords.
For me it all turned on Lyon getting injured.
And I think Lyon injury was not that big a factor. He wasn’t exactly prime Warne before his injury. Just a slightly above average player, nothing more.
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2023, 12:20:30 AM
Sorry for quoting you bother here chaps. Paul-e, you're still thinking the reckless declaration didn't cost us? I think it did but having said that, what followed was excellent from Stokes and I genuinely think that, looking back, deep down, he wouldn't do it again if he had the choice, not against Australia. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but against the so called best in the world, experimenting is not a time for experimenting. I guess we will never know. I think England played much more sensibly after the first test and had it not been for the rain in Manchester, we would be holding the urn and not those scabby, cheats.
I'm sorry this is going to be a long one.
It wasn't the problem and I don't think Stokes (or McCullum) will have any regrets about it. 393 on the first day at Edgbaston is a very good score, in fact it's the 9th highest first innings score by England in a home ashes match since the turn of the century and the 2nd highest at Edgbaston specifically. If we'd been all out for 393 not a single person would've been complaining about us being below par.
For me the problems in that test were, in order:
Anderson getting 1/109 across 2 innings.
Moeen getting 3/204 across 2 innings and showing he was physically unprepared (which is to be expected) for a test match.
A few very good chances being put down in both Aussie innings.
Root, Brook and Stokes all holing out in their 40s in our 2nd innings when just one of them going on to a big score would've made all the difference.
Neither Crawley or Duckett got us off to a strong start in the 2nd innings.
In a similar vein we lost the 2nd test because we put them in to bat and let them score 416, winning from there was always going to be hard work and we'd have made that call in the expectation of them being bowled out for at least 100 less than that. Again poor bowling at times and some awful fielding was the bigger problem, the aggressive batting from Duckett, Crawley and Stokes was actually the only reason we gave ourselves an outside chance of winning, which I think may well have happened if we'd kept the Stokes/Bairstow partnership going for another 10-15 overs.
Once we sorted the bowling out they got nowhere near 400 again (they only passed 300 twice in the next 6 innings) and it's no surprise that once we started bowling with threat we blew them away. There's a reason Woakes got man of the series and it's because his bowling made us much more competitive, with Wood also making a massive contribution.
Post by: Gareth on August 01, 2023, 12:21:10 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2023, 12:28:07 AM
I’d disagree on that one, think Lyon is still a high quality bowler, certainly better than Murphy currently.
I agree them losing Lyon had an impact but us losing Leach was nearly as big a blow because Mo clearly wasn't ready for that first test and his figures really hurt us.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 01, 2023, 12:41:53 AM
Post by: Rory on August 01, 2023, 03:30:46 AM
I do still think the declaration at Edgbaston was a bit of bravado that we could've done without. Overall, a series we could've won 3-1 or 4-1 quite easily, but them's the breaks. 2-2 flatters Aus.
Crawley, Brook, Woakes, Mo & Wood were all very good. I think there has been a slight overreaction to Jimmy.
Yes, he had a quiet series, but I don't think he's bowled badly, he just wasn't in the wickets, which can happen. I think he'll continue, and rightly so, in my opinion, if he feels up to it. He's still an all-time great, even if he's just had four duff performances.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2023, 06:50:07 AM
So happy with that win, think 2-2 is fair -No, honestly 2-2 is NOT fair. Their only fair win was at Lords.
For me it all turned on Lyon getting injured.
And I think Lyon injury was not that big a factor. He wasn’t exactly prime Warne before his injury. Just a slightly above average player, nothing more.
495 test wickets suggests otherwise, Lyon is a quality bowler and as much as I like Jack Leach, I know who I’d rather have in my side.
The declaration at Edgbaston didn’t cost us that test sloppy fielding did. We’ve dropped too many catches right through the series and if we’d have held on to a few of them then the series result would have been different.
The field malaise spread to the Aussies too, in the first innings of the Oval test they dropped 6 catches which is very un-Aussie-like. It must really frustrate the bowlers, you have to create 16 chances to take 10 wickets.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2023, 07:13:59 AM
On to other things, where are the bowlers going to come from. Stone seems to be permanently injured, as does Archer. I hadn't realised that Villa's Chris Woakes is 34 either. Wood is 32. Potts hasn't had a look in this summer. Is Tongue going to make the grade?
Potts will come again. He only needs to make some slight tweaks and could be very effective in lots of conditions.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2023, 07:19:05 AM
So happy with that win, think 2-2 is fair -No, honestly 2-2 is NOT fair. Their only fair win was at Lords.
For me it all turned on Lyon getting injured.
And I think Lyon injury was not that big a factor. He wasn’t exactly prime Warne before his injury. Just a slightly above average player, nothing more.
Sorry Aftab that’s nonsense. Lyon is a quality bowler, with a brilliant record, and is a massive player for them. The Edgbaston win was fair as well - we had the opportunity to win, and didn’t take it. They took their opportunity.
Post by: London Villan on August 01, 2023, 08:41:24 AM
As for Jimmy - without looking up the stats, but I'd guess this was one of his lowest wicket-taking series performances? Sentiment got in the way there.
However to battle back to 2-2, play like we did, always on the front foot was brilliant to see.
Post by: Holte132 on August 01, 2023, 10:38:54 AM
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2023, 10:48:09 AM
Post by: Holte132 on August 01, 2023, 10:48:55 AM
England "Player of the Summer". Including the Ireland game I guess.
Ah, thanks!
Post by: Richard E on August 01, 2023, 10:51:11 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2023, 11:14:43 AM
We need a sixth and deciding test. I’m not ready for this to be over.
Yes and make it a timeless one as well!'
I was reading a stat about one of those from the 1930's. England batted first and got over 900 from just over 330 overs. Imagine how many we would get off that many overs playing Bazball.
Post by: Gareth on August 01, 2023, 11:24:12 AM
We need a sixth and deciding test. I’m not ready for this to be over.
Not allowed….the real cricket starts today! Feckin ECB suited imbeciles
Post by: Richard E on August 01, 2023, 11:27:16 AM
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2023, 12:23:57 PM
Yes the wonderful 100 played over 16.4 overs each, what's the point. Total nonsense.We need a sixth and deciding test. I’m not ready for this to be over.
Not allowed….the real cricket starts today! Feckin ECB suited imbeciles
Post by: Proposition Joe on August 01, 2023, 12:28:57 PM
At lunchtime yesterday the BBC Sport app said Australia had won by 7 wickets.
A lot of us were saying the same :)
I should have more faith in our team, but being a Villa and England cricket fan are very similar things. Scars take a long time to heal...
Post by: London Villan on August 01, 2023, 12:47:14 PM
Post by: simboy on August 01, 2023, 12:59:51 PM
With the money making potential I'm surprised the ECB hasn't looked at reverting to a 6 test series for the Ashes.
it would interfere with the "T20 less 20" we have coming up, or would have to start in April ... a climate change blessing?
Post by: Gareth on August 01, 2023, 01:31:21 PM
With the money making potential I'm surprised the ECB hasn't looked at reverting to a 6 test series for the Ashes.They are obsessed with finding a new market not building the existing one…wasting August with this complete made up nonsense that has no international value whilst devaluing the 50 over comp to a largely developmental one, having condensed the premier test series into 6 weeks and no championship cricket is an utter farce.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 01, 2023, 01:49:17 PM
Test cricket generally, beyond the Ashes, just needs funding, focus, and prioritisation. There’s no Test match being player in world cricket until November. I get there’s a World Cup coming up but that is mad. It just needs sorting out - starting with funnelling a bigger chunk of money to countries who want to develop Test cricket.
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2023, 02:09:19 PM
The TV deal means we're stuck with it for a while but it is the lamest of ducks.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2023, 02:13:14 PM
So I think the Hundred has been really good for women’s cricket. But it’s confusing having it AND a twenty20 competition.
Test cricket generally, beyond the Ashes, just needs funding, focus, and prioritisation. There’s no Test match being player in world cricket until November. I get there’s a World Cup coming up but that is mad. It just needs sorting out - starting with funnelling a bigger chunk of money to countries who want to develop Test cricket.
Jonathan Agnew made a similar point about Test cricket on TMS after the game yesterday. He said a good starting point would be trying to untangle the political problems and having India v Pakistan tests played again.
With the Ashes, test match cricket will always have context for us, as we are only ever two years away from one and have some interesting series against the likes of India, South Africa (though they are struggling a bit), New Zealand, Pakistan etc. to build towards the Aussies.
It's hard to see how it can be fixed in other countries though as the appetite just doesn't seem to be there. It's also a format which doesn't lend itself to having a meaningful competition, as the World Test Championship just seems a bit of a mess.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2023, 02:25:58 PM
People would be far more open to The Hundred if it wasn't prioritised over all other forms of Cricket. The hype and bullshit from both media and players has made it even more unpalatable. No other nation has picked up the format, the football season returns days after it starts, the forecast remains poor and the shadow of a monumental Ashes series will hang over it for some time yet. It already feels as though it has run out of steam but of course the ECB will plough on and rather like Brexit there will be a series of small steps backwards without any admission of failure or responsibility until eventually the Men's competition is finished and only the Women's remains.
The TV deal means we're stuck with it for a while but it is the lamest of ducks.
We've seen some skirmishes amongst the cricket community about The Hindrance, sorry The Hundred, over the past couple of summers, but I think this will be the summer when the hostilities really break out. I think the backlash of people not being able to watch England or their county play for the best part of a month because of a format which clearly is never going to catch on will really start to register.
The annoying thing is that the solution seems so obvious. A block of County Championship fixtures from April to mid August on a Tuesday to Friday, with a return of the 50 over Sunday League and perhaps even a knockout tournament involving the minor counties. Then a revamped T20 Blast tournament in one block going into September and culminating in Finals Day.
I can see the ECB ditching the men's Hundred soon though, but it will be replaced with a T20 franchise tournament.
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2023, 02:26:59 PM
Post by: Gareth on August 01, 2023, 02:36:25 PM
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2023, 02:40:19 PM
India Pakistan would be good, as it's the only other real match up with the sort of spirit you see at Ashes games. The problem obiously is compounded by the fact that there are only 12 test playing nations, and at least a third of those are fairly poor nations. Obviously 5 day tests don't really lend themselves to a tournment format as it would take 6 months to play all the games! Thinking out loud, what about a northern hemisphere v southern hemisphere series, with players from England, the West Indies and India etc against players from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa?
Agree with that Risso. Some of the countries have the double whammy of players not really wanting to play test cricket because of the offers from franchise cricket and Boards losing money staging games. It just isn't an attractive package to some I suppose.
Maybe we're just trying to hold back the tide of white ball and franchise cricket and it will eventually just take over and test cricket will be relegated to being one off series that occur every couple of years or so.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2023, 02:47:51 PM
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
Part of the problem.is that we are the only country that really plays in the NH summer, otherwise you could potentially have windows throughout the year where it could be coordinated for a group of fixtures to take place at the same time.
Maybe the large South Asian diaspora in North America could see fixtures played over there in the summer, especially once Major League Cricket has taken off.
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2023, 03:17:10 PM
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2023, 03:25:11 PM
Then on top of this, all of a sudden new formats such as T20 and The Hundred appear, which further takes away talent from the traditional long format game.
Post by: olaftab on August 01, 2023, 03:47:20 PM
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.Paul, the attendance is made up of 4 almost free under 16 tickets being given with everyone adult ticket purchased at about £18 so it's not a good test.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
Post by: Richard E on August 01, 2023, 06:20:19 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 01, 2023, 07:08:23 PM
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.Paul, the attendance is made up of 4 almost free under 16 tickets being given with everyone adult ticket purchased at about £18 so it's not a good test.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
It doesn't matter, the entire point of it (from the ECB) is to drive up participation and support for the sport. Risso hits the crux perfectly:
Part of the problem is that when you consider (English) football, rugby and cricket in that order, then in descending order, club football is very much the pinnacle of the game, with the national side being of secondary importance to the majority of players and fans, and the clubs/league are the most powerful people in the game. Rugby is somewhere in the middle I'd argue. A fairly strong national and European league, with the national side more popular with a lot of fans. Then comes cricket, where the test playing side is miles more important and popular with the players and fans, such that the better players play very little county cricket, and the majority of fans will never have been to a county game or even watched one on TV.
Then on top of this, all of a sudden new formats such as T20 and The Hundred appear, which further takes away talent from the traditional long format game.
t20 and the hundred in it's wake are designed to make county/club cricket 'sexy' and breathe life into the sport outside of the international schedule.
Where I disagree slightly is around it taking talent away from the long format, I think it changes the talent that is available rather than reducing it. What you have now is test openers who want to go at a run a ball to start the innings, or batsmen playing switch-hits and manipulating the crease so lop-sided fields are less effective, but that comes at the cost of them sometimes looking stupid giving away their wicket. Then you have bowlers like Curran who don't really do line and length but instead have a selection of knuckle balls, wobble seams, etc that they swap between regularly. This is why I'm so supportive of Bazball, it's test cricket embracing the changes in the sport instead of trying to hold back the flood.
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2023, 07:19:48 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2023, 07:22:55 PM
Whatever the merits of The Hundred, having Chris Hughes and Nick Bright involved really isn't going to help. Is it too much to ask to expect knowledgeable broadcasters?
For me the Hundred is cricket dumbed down so these “new” fans can be entertained. So the broadcasters reflect this cricket-lite approach.
Post by: Nev on August 01, 2023, 07:29:20 PM
Whatever the merits of The Hundred, having Chris Hughes and Nick Bright involved really isn't going to help. Is it too much to ask to expect knowledgeable broadcasters?
For me the Hundred is cricket dumbed down so these “new” fans can be entertained. So the broadcasters reflect this cricket-lite approach.
It's a general point I suppose but being pig ignorant really shouldn't be a positive
Post by: Villan For Life on August 01, 2023, 07:50:30 PM
A good review of the series by Aggers.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2023, 10:33:44 PM
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.Paul, the attendance is made up of 4 almost free under 16 tickets being given with everyone adult ticket purchased at about £18 so it's not a good test.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
This a point that often doesn't get mentioned when attendances for The Hundred are being discussed and is probably one of the reasons why it is losing a considerable amount of money.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 01, 2023, 10:40:44 PM
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
It's not a bias towards test cricket Paul, as I don't mind T20 and go and watch the Bears in that format quite a bit. I just think The Hundred is a poor format, with made up franchise teams and it impacts negatively on pretty much every other aspect of English cricket (men's cricket anyway - I think it is a point of difference which is good in women's cricket).
It's practically destroyed the 50 over competition in this country and now even international cricket and the Ashes are having to make way for it.
Post by: Villan For Life on August 02, 2023, 07:07:19 AM
All for the hundred.
Would this happen in football or rugby?
Post by: Nev on August 02, 2023, 07:35:28 AM
When we kick off against Newcastle on 12th August the game itself is identical to those kids having a kick about in the park (Jumpers for goalposts? Marvellous isn't it? You know?) whereas the beggering about with overs and balls makes an already complicated game more convoluted.
Post by: Gareth on August 02, 2023, 07:38:56 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 02, 2023, 09:03:42 AM
It does seem mad but I think they are maybe gambling that 50 over cricket is what gives and possibly disappears.
I thought for a while Gareth tha 50 over cricket would be going in the future, but then I heard a discussion on the radio saying that it is a popular format with Indian broadcasters given the advertising opportunities, so is unlikely to be going anywhere.
The sidelining of the domestic 50 over competition in this country has been pretty disgraceful really, especially as we will soon be heading out for a World Cup in that format. The real issue with The Hundred is the scheduling issue it causes and the fact that one competition has had to be sidelined as a result.
Post by: AV82EC on August 02, 2023, 09:39:47 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2023, 10:20:02 AM
One of the main drivers for the competition is "kids" and getting them involved at a young age. My query would be that if the kids then head to their local cricket club (and their parents can circumvent the clique) will they find The Hundred format being played?
When we kick off against Newcastle on 12th August the game itself is identical to those kids having a kick about in the park (Jumpers for goalposts? Marvellous isn't it? You know?) whereas the beggering about with overs and balls makes an already complicated game more convoluted.
It depends on how old the kids are, most leagues play t20 from u11-u18 but below that you get 5 or 10 over matches. The same is true in football with lots of stuff at primary school level being 5 or 7-a-side.
Rugby is even more extreme with whole element of the game not included until colt/u18 level (at various points the following are introduced: tackling, kicking, posts, scrums - first uncontested and then later real ones, line outs, rucks and mauls). In fact the rules of youth level rugby are closer to league than union and new elements are slowly introduced when it's safe and sensible for them to be.
As someone who has little interest in cricket other than a quick glance through this thread at times it would appear that The Hundred is potentially a good idea for the let’s get the youngsters involved angle but incredibly poorly executed. If senior cricket is predominantly about 20/20, 50 over 1 day and then Test Cricket then what the suits and blazers seem to have forgotten is how to schedule a new competition into that framework. I have no idea what the answer is but from the outside it’s an absolute shitshow. Would a potential solution be The Hundred played by County 2nd XI and youth system players?
I think it's important to take a step back and look at what the real drivers behind it are. For me there are 2 things that led to it being introduced:
1. t20 gave the sport a massive boost (globally) and gave the sport a format that could be competitive, as an event, with football, rugby, etc because it was just the right length of match in a sport that was previously a 6-8 hour commitment at minimum. However as the rules were cleaned up some of the parts that rushed the gam along got lost and t20 has drifted from the 3hr schedule it started with to a point where most games are closer to 4hrs. I suspect the ECB wanted a format where they could bring back those quicker elements and add a few more (so back-to-back overs from the same end to reduce time resetting the field, for example). I don't agree with it but I suspect someone has some research data that shows 3hrs is the ideal length for a game.
2. They wanted a franchise league and that doesn't work with 18 teams so they needed a way to drop the numbers. Any format that was based on the existing 3 would've seen huge arguments over which teams were included, by making it a weird offshoot with silly rules and completely isolated funding, etc they made it less of a problem to go with 8 brand new franchises. It wouldn't surprise me if the rules do flip to it being a 2nd t20 league in time but by the time it happens the teams that are involved will be settled and considered as genuinely distinct from the county game so they will get their competitor to the IPL, etc.
Post by: Risso on August 02, 2023, 11:51:10 AM
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
It wouldn't work though, unless you had it in India every time when you could more or less guarantee no rain. Otherwise, you could well have teams drawing all the time, and the better sides being knocked out of the group stages due to the weather. And what happens in the knock out stages if a match gets rained off completely?
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2023, 12:16:36 PM
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
It wouldn't work though, unless you had it in India every time when you could more or less guarantee no rain. Otherwise, you could well have teams drawing all the time, and the better sides being knocked out of the group stages due to the weather. And what happens in the knock out stages if a match gets rained off completely?
Keep a couple of a reserve day for each round and I think it's workable. Schedule wouldn't be massively different to this ashes series where only 1 test was really impacted by weather and would've been completed with a reserve day. Everywhere capable of hosting it would also be able to find a window where they could be fairly sure of the weather. If you're really worried you could even add a 2nd reserve day. Then schedule 5+2 on, 5 off and repeat for each stage, all done in 41-43 days so pretty much 6 weeks.
I do think that would be better than the current test championship which doesn't really work.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 02, 2023, 05:49:29 PM
One of the main drivers for the competition is "kids" and getting them involved at a young age. My query would be that if the kids then head to their local cricket club (and their parents can circumvent the clique) will they find The Hundred format being played?
When we kick off against Newcastle on 12th August the game itself is identical to those kids having a kick about in the park (Jumpers for goalposts? Marvellous isn't it? You know?) whereas the beggering about with overs and balls makes an already complicated game more convoluted.
It depends on how old the kids are, most leagues play t20 from u11-u18 but below that you get 5 or 10 over matches. The same is true in football with lots of stuff at primary school level being 5 or 7-a-side.
Rugby is even more extreme with whole element of the game not included until colt/u18 level (at various points the following are introduced: tackling, kicking, posts, scrums - first uncontested and then later real ones, line outs, rucks and mauls). In fact the rules of youth level rugby are closer to league than union and new elements are slowly introduced when it's safe and sensible for them to be.As someone who has little interest in cricket other than a quick glance through this thread at times it would appear that The Hundred is potentially a good idea for the let’s get the youngsters involved angle but incredibly poorly executed. If senior cricket is predominantly about 20/20, 50 over 1 day and then Test Cricket then what the suits and blazers seem to have forgotten is how to schedule a new competition into that framework. I have no idea what the answer is but from the outside it’s an absolute shitshow. Would a potential solution be The Hundred played by County 2nd XI and youth system players?
I think it's important to take a step back and look at what the real drivers behind it are. For me there are 2 things that led to it being introduced:
1. t20 gave the sport a massive boost (globally) and gave the sport a format that could be competitive, as an event, with football, rugby, etc because it was just the right length of match in a sport that was previously a 6-8 hour commitment at minimum. However as the rules were cleaned up some of the parts that rushed the gam along got lost and t20 has drifted from the 3hr schedule it started with to a point where most games are closer to 4hrs. I suspect the ECB wanted a format where they could bring back those quicker elements and add a few more (so back-to-back overs from the same end to reduce time resetting the field, for example). I don't agree with it but I suspect someone has some research data that shows 3hrs is the ideal length for a game.
2. They wanted a franchise league and that doesn't work with 18 teams so they needed a way to drop the numbers. Any format that was based on the existing 3 would've seen huge arguments over which teams were included, by making it a weird offshoot with silly rules and completely isolated funding, etc they made it less of a problem to go with 8 brand new franchises. It wouldn't surprise me if the rules do flip to it being a 2nd t20 league in time but by the time it happens the teams that are involved will be settled and considered as genuinely distinct from the county game so they will get their competitor to the IPL, etc.
Point 2 was the main driver Paul. My theory is that the ECB can't generate income outside of the international game and they flog the international players as much as they possibly can as it is. They therefore needed a way to generate revenue through the domestic game, which is run by the counties. They couldn't have another T20 competition, so had to invent something different and a new format which they could trademark and sell to other countries. It is also well known that certain people at the ECB favour a reduction in the number of domestic teams, so it was also a tentative step in that direction.
There is clearly an impasse between the counties and the ECB which is becoming increasingly fractious. As someone who follows Welsh rugby, it is following the path of the dispute between the regional sides and the WRU which is now in it's 20th year and is showing no signs of resolution.
Of course, we don't know the finer details of TV contracts and obligations, so don't really know the full picture. One way out for the ECB would be to potentially ditch The Hundred and market an 'elite' T20 competition as a replacement. Still have the Blast, but market the new competition as a level up from that. Keep the current teams or possibly have six 'regional' sides (Bears, Worcester and Northants become a 'Central' team; Derby, Notts and Leicester become an 'East' team etc.) and pick the best players from those Blast squads (one of the most ridiculous things about The Hundred is seeing players playing for totally unrelated teams -like Jonny Bairstow playing for Welsh Fire) along with some overseas imports. Not ideal, but think that might just be about palatable.
Post by: Monty on August 02, 2023, 05:54:46 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 02, 2023, 05:55:01 PM
Post by: Richard E on August 02, 2023, 05:59:55 PM
Post by: Monty on August 02, 2023, 06:03:28 PM
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
It wouldn't work though, unless you had it in India every time when you could more or less guarantee no rain. Otherwise, you could well have teams drawing all the time, and the better sides being knocked out of the group stages due to the weather. And what happens in the knock out stages if a match gets rained off completely?
Keep a couple of a reserve day for each round and I think it's workable. Schedule wouldn't be massively different to this ashes series where only 1 test was really impacted by weather and would've been completed with a reserve day. Everywhere capable of hosting it would also be able to find a window where they could be fairly sure of the weather. If you're really worried you could even add a 2nd reserve day. Then schedule 5+2 on, 5 off and repeat for each stage, all done in 41-43 days so pretty much 6 weeks.
I do think that would be better than the current test championship which doesn't really work.
Touring is still lucrative enough to have this added to the calendar at the expense of some less exciting stuff though (oh god I'm thinking about the logistics...!).
Look. How about we abolish plane travel for cricket purposes and go back to the days where getting Down Under for the Ashes took two months by boat. Somehow I think this solves everything.
Post by: Ads on August 02, 2023, 08:38:02 PM
In India they're producing sub-par pitches, not worthy of test cricket and getting away with 2 run an over tedious dross and they'll go to Australia and be whitewashed in the winter of 24. Yet probably earn more points for chucking rank half volleys down at a decent rate.
Post by: olaftab on August 03, 2023, 08:20:02 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2023, 09:56:09 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 03, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
Eh? The first test at Edgbaston went to the last session of the last day?
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2023, 04:52:35 PM
With respect that’s total rubbish. I don’t like Indian cricket board, far too arrogant but Indian team has done rather well in Test cricket over the last ten years especially against Australia. Indian bowlers are not known for chucking pies and their defeat in early June was how it’s always been when they tour England. Never good in early summer. Far too cold. Having said that I do wish ICC would not always bend over backwards to accommodate India.
It's not rubbish at all. We've been docked more points in one go, than anybody has been previously. Meanwhile India will produce 5 pitches you wouldn't want to play village cricket on and get away with it year after year...but entertainment? Value? Hmmm. The Aussies will blow them away, as you'd expect they would anybody at home.
Post by: olaftab on August 03, 2023, 07:15:50 PM
Except on their last two visits to Australia they have won the Test series.With respect that’s total rubbish. I don’t like Indian cricket board, far too arrogant but Indian team has done rather well in Test cricket over the last ten years especially against Australia. Indian bowlers are not known for chucking pies and their defeat in early June was how it’s always been when they tour England. Never good in early summer. Far too cold. Having said that I do wish ICC would not always bend over backwards to accommodate India.
It's not rubbish at all. We've been docked more points in one go, than anybody has been previously. Meanwhile India will produce 5 pitches you wouldn't want to play village cricket on and get away with it year after year...but entertainment? Value? Hmmm. The Aussies will blow them away, as you'd expect they would anybody at home.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2023, 07:28:02 PM
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
Eh? The first test at Edgbaston went to the last session of the last day?
It was a crap pitch for test cricket. It was only because of Englands approach and at times reckless batting that there was a result. If England had been of a more standard test cricket mindset it would have been an incredibly boring match on a lifeless pitch
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 03, 2023, 07:31:25 PM
WTC is gerrymandering to get India into a final where they will inevitability choke again. England and Australia are comfortably the two best sides in the world and produced an absolute worldie of a series.
In India they're producing sub-par pitches, not worthy of test cricket and getting away with 2 run an over tedious dross and they'll go to Australia and be whitewashed in the winter of 24. Yet probably earn more points for chucking rank half volleys down at a decent rate.
I've no sympathy for either side. Both teams overrates were pathetic during the course of the series. The cricket that was played was brilliant to watch, but that is not a get out of jail card when it comes to bowling at 11-12 overs per hour. The ICC needs to get far more of a handle on it in general. Fines and docking WTC points ultimately don't change anything. In game penalties need to be brought in
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 03, 2023, 07:46:47 PM
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
Eh? The first test at Edgbaston went to the last session of the last day?
A pitch doesn’t have to break up on the first day to be bad. Edgbaston was a pudding this year - no pace, no bounce, no carry, and barely any turn.
Post by: Ads on August 03, 2023, 11:56:10 PM
WTC is gerrymandering to get India into a final where they will inevitability choke again. England and Australia are comfortably the two best sides in the world and produced an absolute worldie of a series.
In India they're producing sub-par pitches, not worthy of test cricket and getting away with 2 run an over tedious dross and they'll go to Australia and be whitewashed in the winter of 24. Yet probably earn more points for chucking rank half volleys down at a decent rate.
I've no sympathy for either side. Both teams overrates were pathetic during the course of the series. The cricket that was played was brilliant to watch, but that is not a get out of jail card when it comes to bowling at 11-12 overs per hour. The ICC needs to get far more of a handle on it in general. Fines and docking WTC points ultimately don't change anything. In game penalties need to be brought in
What do you expect when one side has to dig a spinner out of retirement who subsequently injures his finger and groin, while the other loses one of their best players?
I fail to see how the integrity of the game is being upheld because we have to watch Head or Brook bowl absolute filth to get the over count in, just because.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2023, 08:32:26 AM
WTC is gerrymandering to get India into a final where they will inevitability choke again. England and Australia are comfortably the two best sides in the world and produced an absolute worldie of a series.
In India they're producing sub-par pitches, not worthy of test cricket and getting away with 2 run an over tedious dross and they'll go to Australia and be whitewashed in the winter of 24. Yet probably earn more points for chucking rank half volleys down at a decent rate.
I've no sympathy for either side. Both teams overrates were pathetic during the course of the series. The cricket that was played was brilliant to watch, but that is not a get out of jail card when it comes to bowling at 11-12 overs per hour. The ICC needs to get far more of a handle on it in general. Fines and docking WTC points ultimately don't change anything. In game penalties need to be brought in
What do you expect when one side has to dig a spinner out of retirement who subsequently injures his finger and groin, while the other loses one of their best players?
I fail to see how the integrity of the game is being upheld because we have to watch Head or Brook bowl absolute filth to get the over count in, just because.
The 15 overs an hour guideline has been factored in with the thinking that attacks will be predominantly pace bowlers. To me there is really no excuse not to be able to bowl 15 overs in an hour even when spinners aren't bowling. I watched a documentary on the bodyline series and they used to bowl just shy of 30 (8 ball) overs an hour. Now I accept that's unattainable now with the way the games changed, but to suggest that 4 seamers can't bowl 15 (6 ball) overs between them in an hour is untrue
Be quicker getting round between overs, don't have a chat after every ball, don't arse around getting back on the field after Lunch and Tea etc. I will say that batsmen have their part to blame in slow overrates too. They should be ready to face a lot quicker and them wondering off to square leg after every ball needs to stop.
Umpires in general need to be a lot stronger on this.
Post by: Drummond on August 04, 2023, 10:29:32 AM
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2023, 11:42:11 AM
There are some things that umpires need to stamp out but points deductions for slow over rates don't make any sense when games are being completed with plenty of time left in the match.
I'm with Ads, I don't want to watch part timers rushing through 4-5 overs of filth just to make arbitrary quotas, that is far worse for the game than accepting that maintaining a steady over rate is affected by lots of other things that are difficult for the team to control.
Post by: Ads on August 04, 2023, 12:51:27 PM
That's not even taking into consideration that levels of fitness required to be doing it in the later sessions on the 4th and 5th days of tests, between the two best sides in the world.
Silly rule that will benefit crap pitches and lots of spin.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2023, 02:11:48 PM
England bowled at a rate of just over 11 at the start of Australias 2nd innings (even more ridiculous considering how the weather forecast was against England)
I accept that maybe 15 overs is difficult when you have all out rapid pace attacks, but there is just no way that they should be languishing at those horrible rates, and this has been a problem that I'd getting worse and worse.
Harold Larwood is widely regarded as one of the fastest bowlers of all time and he got through his 8 ball overs in 4-5 minutes. No one can tell me that someone like Mitchell Starc for example doesn't have the physical fitness to be able to match someone who played the game 90 years ago.
As I've said, the cricket being exceptional isn't a get out of jail free card. 80 overs in a day is a pisstake.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on August 04, 2023, 02:21:32 PM
All the current system does is encourage a team that is behind in the game to drag their feet. The 3rd day at the Oval being the prime example. They went off in bright sunshine with 10 overs just disappearing. That sort of thing just makes cricket look a bit silly.
Post by: Drummond on August 04, 2023, 02:50:06 PM
Maybe it needs a general recalculation. Change it to a generous target of 14 overs an hour for the bowling side, and scrap the arbitrary rule of only adding 30 minutes on to the end of the day and bowl the remaining overs unless conditions aren't fit for play. I'd scrap fines and docking of points all together, and bring in a system of penalty runs to the opposition that becomes more severe the more a team falls behind a rate
All the current system does is encourage a team that is behind in the game to drag their feet. The 3rd day at the Oval being the prime example. They went off in bright sunshine with 10 overs just disappearing. That sort of thing just makes cricket look a bit silly.
I said similar re penalty runs, though I'd do the calculation at the end of the session or innings (whichever ends soonest).
Also think that the over rate needs to be looked at, these days you don't often see a batting team playing really cautiously and defending most balls so there is more happening to delay it. I think batters delaying play shouldn't happen and bowlers should just be able to bowl when they're ready.
Post by: paul_e on August 04, 2023, 03:32:18 PM
I just don't like the idea of disrupting a game that is enjoyable, engaging and fiercely competitive to force the bowling team to rush through a few overs, I don't see how that helps ayone.
Post by: Risso on August 04, 2023, 09:14:15 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on August 05, 2023, 01:58:01 AM
If the weather turns bad, move on to awarding six runs per unbowled over to the batting side.
Post by: Rory on August 05, 2023, 02:32:50 AM
Just thinking that we've had a 5-match series with four played to completion and the other was basically reduced by 40% because of weather.
Granted, I'm a member of the bowlers' union (I cannot bat for shit) but the fielding side being slow isn't the only factor. Even ten years ago, you'd probably see four or more defensive shots or leaves per over, with the ball either going straight to the keeper or picked up quickly, then shined as the bowler walked back to their mark.
Batsmen are more aggressive these days, hitting more boundaries and more sixes in particular. That means time when the ball is in the air, time for the crowd to locate and return it, time for the fielder to throw it back to the middle, time to inspect it for damage, then the time to shine and return it to the bowler. Even if it's only 30 seconds per over, it all adds up.
That batting style lends itself to more wicket chances per over, more wickets per balls bowled and shorter innings (by time) so could it be that the two will naturally balance out?
Post by: tomd2103 on August 05, 2023, 11:02:30 AM
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
Eh? The first test at Edgbaston went to the last session of the last day?
A pitch doesn’t have to break up on the first day to be bad. Edgbaston was a pudding this year - no pace, no bounce, no carry, and barely any turn.
A particularly bad test match pitch results in the game being over in a couple of days or 500 plays 500 after the first innings. As it was, the pitch at Edgbaston produced a game that went to the last session of the last day, so to say it was "particularly crap" is way over the top.
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 05, 2023, 05:47:56 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on August 16, 2023, 01:08:57 PM
England squad for T20 series against New Zealand: Jos Buttler (captain), Rehan Ahmed, Moeen Ali, Gus Atkinson, Jonny Bairstow, Harry Brook, Sam Curran, Ben Duckett, Will Jacks, Liam Livingstone, Dawid Malan, Adil Rashid, Josh Tongue, John Turner, Luke Wood.
I suspect that Stokes' reversal of the plan to use the time before the next test series to sort out his knee means that it is in such a state that rest/operations won't help, so he might as well play while he still can.
Post by: Gareth on August 16, 2023, 02:11:51 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2023, 03:19:57 PM
Post by: Risso on August 16, 2023, 05:13:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 16, 2023, 07:23:01 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on August 16, 2023, 07:36:24 PM
That sounds like some games I played on the original Brian Lara cricket on the mega drive!
We were back on the IOM last week, and had a barebcue at our best friends' house. Their son who's 18, was in the IOM T20 team that lost to Spain in just two balls, a new world record. The IOM scored 10 (with 2 from our friend) before Spain replied with two sixes in two balls.
Reminds me of my first game for my school, Kings Norton Boys against George Dixon around 1979, we were all out for 11. Quickest game that I’ve ever been involved in. We did improve after that though and went on to win schoolboy cricket cups.
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2023, 07:59:55 PM
Post by: Beard82 on August 16, 2023, 08:10:33 PM
Yeah my first Cricket game was for the school - all out for 37. I opened the batting and lasted 4 overs - by which time we were 4 for 11. I was out for a duck - after about 10 forward defensives - I got stuck between a forward defensive and a tentative drive and ballooned the ball.That sounds like some games I played on the original Brian Lara cricket on the mega drive!We were back on the IOM last week, and had a barebcue at our best friends' house. Their son who's 18, was in the IOM T20 team that lost to Spain in just two balls, a new world record. The IOM scored 10 (with 2 from our friend) before Spain replied with two sixes in two balls.
Reminds me of my first game for my school, Kings Norton Boys against George Dixon around 1979, we were all out for 11. Quickest game that I’ve ever been involved in. We did improve after that though and went on to win schoolboy cricket cups.
My favourite is a mate of mine who walked on an LBW because "the bowler sounded convinced"
Post by: Risso on August 16, 2023, 08:24:48 PM
Post by: paul_e on August 16, 2023, 08:27:02 PM
I think Spain and a lot of the Eastern European non-traditional cricket countries mainly get a load of ringers in from the sub-continent. Our other friends’ daughter came back from a cricket tour of Romania and all the teams were full of Indians.
It's the same in scandinavia.
Post by: UK Redsox on August 17, 2023, 03:04:41 PM
I think Spain and a lot of the Eastern European non-traditional cricket countries mainly get a load of ringers in from the sub-continent. Our other friends’ daughter came back from a cricket tour of Romania and all the teams were full of Indians.
There's European cricket on the free Viaplay channel. I'd say over 3/4 of players are sub-continent (or sub-continent heritage). Some of the bowling I saw was very ropey
Post by: PaulWinch again on August 17, 2023, 08:23:37 PM
Post by: charlatan on August 17, 2023, 09:32:09 PM
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 19, 2023, 04:46:37 PM
I think Spain and a lot of the Eastern European non-traditional cricket countries mainly get a load of ringers in from the sub-continent. Our other friends’ daughter came back from a cricket tour of Romania and all the teams were full of Indians.
There's European cricket on the free Viaplay channel. I'd say over 3/4 of players are sub-continent (or sub-continent heritage). Some of the bowling I saw was very ropey
I saw some bloke bowling on ViaPlay and I have no idea how it was legal. It was even worse looking than Malinga.
Post by: tomd2103 on August 31, 2023, 12:48:49 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on August 31, 2023, 12:53:56 AM
It’s a very strong squad. Shame about Jofra, but right call. Really interested to see Gus Atkinson, he was apparently hitting 94/95mph the other day. England absolutely one of the favourites.
Yep, looks strong with a lot of options. Would think the starting XI as it stands would be:
Roy, Bairstow, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Livingstone, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Wood and Topley.
Woakes and Topley open the bowling. Sam Curran maybe comes in for Livingstone if the pitch is more seam friendly and Moeen Ali moves to six.
Post by: Steve67 on September 01, 2023, 08:53:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 01, 2023, 09:12:44 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 03, 2023, 04:46:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 03, 2023, 04:48:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 08, 2023, 07:38:05 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 09, 2023, 10:05:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 10, 2023, 01:58:34 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on September 10, 2023, 02:13:46 PM
Curious that Brook stays in the side. They must be putting him in.Not sure it's that simple. Malan is missing because he became a father yesterday and Roy is still not fit.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 10, 2023, 02:15:22 PM
Pretty dreadful start.
Post by: Lsvilla on September 10, 2023, 02:19:25 PM
Ah ok.Yep. Could be a short game.
Pretty dreadful start.
Post by: Villan For Life on September 10, 2023, 02:25:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 10, 2023, 04:54:38 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 10, 2023, 07:14:34 PM
This game was a perfect example of the old cricket adage, never judge a game until both sides have batted. Who would have predicted such a winning margin when we lost the top four for next to nothing?
Post by: Risso on September 10, 2023, 07:22:20 PM
Post by: Chris Smith on September 10, 2023, 08:08:06 PM
Why do France keeping getting major sporting events? They couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.
It’s because Lourdes is the home of cricket.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2023, 12:45:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 13, 2023, 12:47:28 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 15, 2023, 07:47:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 15, 2023, 08:52:34 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on September 17, 2023, 03:42:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 23, 2023, 02:14:22 PM
Hain is batting really well on debut and Jacks got a really good 94 before mistiming one going for a 6. Aside from that we've had a lot of starts but not quite pushed on.
Post by: paul_e on September 23, 2023, 05:26:05 PM
Post by: beness on September 23, 2023, 05:41:08 PM
Post by: beness on September 23, 2023, 06:28:58 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 26, 2023, 04:53:10 PM
Post by: Richard on October 04, 2023, 08:34:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 04, 2023, 09:07:06 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on October 04, 2023, 09:48:18 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 04, 2023, 09:55:45 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 05, 2023, 01:15:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 09:14:12 AM
Post by: Gareth on October 05, 2023, 09:49:09 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 09:56:45 AM
Post by: simboy on October 05, 2023, 10:06:44 AM
Hasn’t been helped by the shambolic management of the fixtures either.
I've been out of touch with this. How so?
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 10:08:41 AM
40-1 (7.4)
Bairstow 24*
Root 0
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 10:33:33 AM
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 11:00:07 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 11:02:30 AM
Fairly poor from Brook as well. Need Moeen to do his bit now.
The Brook one was s predictable, he just got a bit over-excited after the 3 shots before it.
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 12:03:24 PM
The bottom 4 are all capable of some spectacular hitting but I wouldn't want them facing more than 7-8 overs.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 12:17:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 12:23:40 PM
We’re going to need a big last 10 here.
Given they'll be batting under the lights I reckon anything around 300 is a good target to defend but it's frustrating how stuttering we've been, 4-5 extra overs in a couple of those partnerships and we would've been aiming for 350.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 12:48:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 12:49:21 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 12:50:37 PM
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 12:55:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 05, 2023, 01:11:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 05, 2023, 01:25:15 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 05, 2023, 01:27:56 PM
Any predictions for the World Cup. I'll go with India, England, Australia and Pakistan to make the semis. India to win final as home advantage will be massive.Please NOT India or Australia. Hopefully England again if not NZ or Pakistan.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 01:40:48 PM
So the opening match of the WC, between two of the very best teams, finalists in the last world cup, staged in a country where we are told they just love cricket, only a handful bothered to turn up the ground to watch....tu tut.
In fairness the fixtures were released incredibly late.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 01:41:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 01:43:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 02:04:06 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 02:11:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 02:24:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 02:46:56 PM
Post by: Risso on October 05, 2023, 03:50:41 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 04:04:41 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 05, 2023, 04:09:12 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 05, 2023, 04:10:45 PM
Not having that. When we had WC here in 2019 grounds were sold out for all matches way before tournament started.So the opening match of the WC, between two of the very best teams, finalists in the last world cup, staged in a country where we are told they just love cricket, only a handful bothered to turn up the ground to watch....tu tut.
In fairness the fixtures were released incredibly late.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 05, 2023, 04:11:44 PM
Post by: Bully2345 on October 05, 2023, 04:13:51 PM
Anyway, that's a massive battering
Post by: Lsvilla on October 05, 2023, 04:16:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 09, 2023, 07:59:34 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2023, 06:44:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2023, 06:49:16 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2023, 07:03:43 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2023, 08:33:04 AM
Post by: olaftab on October 10, 2023, 09:26:01 AM
Good start need to continue it. I wonder whether dew will be a factor - not sure whether that happens as much near the Himalayas!Being as you quoted it, it's Himalaya and never the Himalayas. :)
Post by: olaftab on October 10, 2023, 09:28:50 AM
Scratch that, it won’t because it’s a day game.Don't discount the overnight collection still being on ground for a relatively early game.
Post by: olaftab on October 10, 2023, 09:44:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2023, 10:03:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2023, 11:12:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 10, 2023, 04:18:43 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on October 10, 2023, 04:36:42 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 11, 2023, 06:23:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 11, 2023, 09:48:44 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 12, 2023, 09:18:20 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2023, 12:57:57 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 12, 2023, 01:20:42 PM
"49th over: South Africa 310-5 (Miller 17, Jansen 26) Hubris, thy name is Maxy. After roaring his disapproval of a misfield earlier in the day it is Australia’s best bowler who commits a sin, allowing a Miller drive through his hands that becomes two free runs. Worse is to come when the same batter miscues a pull high in the direction of Starc. The big quick comes in from the square-leg fence, pouches the catch, THEN SPILLS IT diving forward when his elbows hit the turf. This has been an utter horror show in the field for Australia. AND IT GETS WORSE! Jansen edges over the leaping Inglis, then STOINIS DROPS A SITTER at cover. This is absolutely calamitous.
Miller adds insult to injury with the most powerfully pulled six you can imagine. Poor Pat Cummins ends with 1/71 from nine overs."
Post by: Villan For Life on October 12, 2023, 02:49:58 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on October 12, 2023, 03:05:11 PM
The Crims are 56-4 off 11.1 chasing 312.
and those two cheats are out too :)
UTV
The Doc
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2023, 03:12:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 12, 2023, 04:08:28 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on October 12, 2023, 04:18:36 PM
These run rate preservation games are not a good luck.
agreed not a good advert for the 50 over game...
UTV
The Doc
Post by: simon ward 50 on October 13, 2023, 02:49:41 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67023224
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 14, 2023, 08:37:24 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 14, 2023, 08:46:29 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 10:10:25 AM
Post by: KNVillan on October 15, 2023, 10:14:15 AM
Woakes is having a nightmare thus far in this World Cup
Curran is having one too
Post by: Villan For Life on October 15, 2023, 10:15:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 10:20:00 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on October 15, 2023, 10:27:24 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 10:42:18 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 10:59:01 AM
Post by: dubont on October 15, 2023, 11:02:27 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 11:17:53 AM
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2023, 11:25:25 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 11:33:10 AM
That was an unbelievable decision by the Umpire. Well done Mr Saikat.
Yep, credit for that, great decision.
There's the 4th down and there's not a massive amount of batting left in their side now. Interesting that they've pushed Nabi down, he is a bit of a slogger so I guess they want to get a bit more on the board before he comes in and tries to smash them to something decent.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 11:52:16 AM
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2023, 12:00:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 12:04:50 PM
Agree with comments being made on TV. About time Afghanistan were given more matches somewhere in the region like UAE by England, Australia etc. I bet there is superb talent in the country that needs to be encouraged by exposure and raising standards.
Yep, but that applies to 4-5 other countries as well.
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 12:17:53 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2023, 12:36:12 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 12:48:53 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 12:56:30 PM
Post by: Richard on October 15, 2023, 01:24:00 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 15, 2023, 01:31:53 PM
What a catch that was from Root, had to watch it back a fair few times and I reckon that's the best catch of the tournament so far and will take some beating.
Joe Root catch
https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/1713521618377486811?t=qC0c28RDXzGgrnu6dnrQAw&s=19
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 02:16:02 PM
Post by: Flamingo Lane on October 15, 2023, 02:56:04 PM
What a catch that was from Root, had to watch it back a fair few times and I reckon that's the best catch of the tournament so far and will take some beating.
Joe Root catch
https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/1713521618377486811?t=qC0c28RDXzGgrnu6dnrQAw&s=19
Amazing, not least because his hat stayed on his head.
Post by: Risso on October 15, 2023, 03:13:06 PM
Post by: dave shelley on October 15, 2023, 03:13:46 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 15, 2023, 03:33:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 03:36:54 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2023, 03:57:40 PM
I think Harry could still pull it around, not over yet.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 03:58:17 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 03:59:18 PM
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 04:00:42 PM
Well Curren didn’t listen now it’s Woakes turn.
I think Harry could still pull it around, not over yet.
This needs to be a big partnership if we're going to drag this out of the fire.
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2023, 04:47:21 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on October 15, 2023, 04:49:34 PM
I think Afghanistan’s inexperience in winning matches will result in England sneaking this. Wood and Rashid doing very well.FFS.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 15, 2023, 04:52:44 PM
As I said earlier, it really isn't that much of a surprise. England have been sleepwalking since the last world cup in the 50 over format. Any side that thinks its acceptable to have Sam Curran coming in as it's No 7 batsman deserves everything it gets
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 05:11:38 PM
Dismal England, they’ve got virtually no chance of semi finals. All facets of the game miles off.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 15, 2023, 05:19:38 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 15, 2023, 06:28:28 PM
Not sure who what was more pathetic, England performance or my optimism :-\I think Afghanistan’s inexperience in winning matches will result in England sneaking this. Wood and Rashid doing very well.FFS.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 06:31:17 PM
It would seem 2019 was the aberration sadly. We are so bad at world cups generally.
In fairness we won the Twenty20 World Cup.
We look really poor and meek here. We’re playing with 9 men the way Woakes and Curran are bowling as well.
Post by: Gareth on October 15, 2023, 08:27:32 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 09:50:56 PM
But beyond that there are players like Woakes and Curran ( really like them both, the former is obviously terrific) who are massively underperforming. Like I said earlier, they only managed 8 overs between them today - they were dreadful.
Also the structure of the side is unbalanced - Livingstone and Curran at 6/7 is too high. If it were 7/8 that’s very different.
Post by: paul_e on October 15, 2023, 10:04:58 PM
It’s not as simplistic as that though is it? I don’t love the Hundred, but it has brought a lot of people to the game and been massive for the women’s game. This isn’t about domestic 50 over cricket, not really, it’s more that it’s become massively inconsistent in the international calendar. England haven’t played enough games, and that is the administrators fault.
But beyond that there are players like Woakes and Curran ( really like them both, the former is obviously terrific) who are massively underperforming. Like I said earlier, they only managed 8 overs between them today - they were dreadful.
Also the structure of the side is unbalanced - Livingstone and Curran at 6/7 is too high. If it were 7/8 that’s very different.
Yep, we've played about half the amount of 50over games as the likes of India since the last world cup and we're seeing the impact of that.
Post by: Steve67 on October 15, 2023, 10:24:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 15, 2023, 11:02:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 17, 2023, 04:11:52 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on October 17, 2023, 05:46:41 PM
Post by: Richard on October 17, 2023, 08:07:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 18, 2023, 05:09:49 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 20, 2023, 10:59:48 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/67168585 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/67168585)
Post by: Villa Lew on October 20, 2023, 11:41:17 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on October 20, 2023, 05:16:15 PM
Blimey!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/67168585 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/67168585)
He’s come out of his shell since Stuart Broad retired.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 20, 2023, 08:22:11 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 21, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 10:13:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 10:17:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 10:20:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 10:36:04 AM
Post by: Risso on October 21, 2023, 10:51:09 AM
Our bowling has been fucking atrocious for much of this tournament.
Agreed, abysmal. I'm not a cricket expert by any stretch of the imagination, so can somebody explain how Chris Woakes can be the best player in the Ashes, and then look like he's never thrown a cricket ball in anger in this World Cup? I get the whole home pitches versus away thing, but his drop off in form is incredible. It's going from Emi Martinez to Robin Olsen in terms of a reduction in form and ability.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 10:53:07 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 11:01:12 AM
Our bowling has been fucking atrocious for much of this tournament.
Agreed, abysmal. I'm not a cricket expert by any stretch of the imagination, so can somebody explain how Chris Woakes can be the best player in the Ashes, and then look like he's never thrown a cricket ball in anger in this World Cup? I get the whole home pitches versus away thing, but his drop off in form is incredible. It's going from Emi Martinez to Robin Olsen in terms of a reduction in form and ability.
He just looks completely out of rhythm. Most of them do to be honest, can’t hit a consistent line or length at all.
Post by: Lsvilla on October 21, 2023, 12:08:41 PM
It’s also then weird to opt to bowl - Wood is bowling like a drain. We look completely unprepared.Which we clearly are. Shocking from top to bottom.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 12:35:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 12:47:15 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on October 21, 2023, 12:55:52 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 21, 2023, 12:57:36 PM
380 minimum. Tired batters against fresh bowlers. Lose by 100+. Appalling decision to bat second.
We'd have lost batting first too. We'd have been 20/3 and that is practically where the tail starts
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 12:57:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 12:59:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 01:13:56 PM
Post by: Steve67 on October 21, 2023, 01:26:55 PM
Post by: Steve67 on October 21, 2023, 01:31:14 PM
Post by: Aldridge Villa on October 21, 2023, 01:38:24 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on October 21, 2023, 01:42:57 PM
Post by: Richard on October 21, 2023, 03:25:35 PM
Post by: Rory on October 21, 2023, 03:35:47 PM
Post by: Stu on October 21, 2023, 03:36:22 PM
Post by: Rory on October 21, 2023, 03:39:34 PM
Embarrassingly bad performance from England. They have not looked good at any point in this tournament so far, and there is a lot of discussion about some of the team being more interested in playing golf.
I'd be more interested in playing golf if this was how I played cricket.
(Obviously I'm shit at both but, y'know.)
Post by: Villan For Life on October 21, 2023, 04:55:28 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 21, 2023, 05:14:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 05:57:29 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 06:13:36 PM
Any success for English sporting teams always seems to happen in spite of the governing bodies rather than because of them, and this is why its always fleeting.
Not sure that’s the case with England’s success - it was a very purposeful mission from the governing body (through Strauss) to deliver white ball success. There are how failures in the governing body in terms of being complacent on how that success could be sustained.
Post by: Gareth on October 21, 2023, 07:47:43 PM
That was a painful watch. No sympathy for the ECB though , I can’t even remember who won this season’s domestic 50 over format because it has been so drastically marginalised.
Or who played in the practice matches vs Ireland - arrogant twats picking a 2nd XI rather than the actual squad - reap what they sow.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 21, 2023, 07:51:27 PM
Diabolical stuff. They just look like they haven’t bothered to prepare. It’s like Buttler’s comments on the toss and conditions in hindsight - how did we not know that was a likely possibility?
It wouldn't have mattered if England had batted first. Thinking it was acceptable to go into an ODI with David Willey at 7 and Adil Rashid at 8 is monumentally ridiculous.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 21, 2023, 09:02:28 PM
Diabolical stuff. They just look like they haven’t bothered to prepare. It’s like Buttler’s comments on the toss and conditions in hindsight - how did we not know that was a likely possibility?
It wouldn't have mattered if England had batted first. Thinking it was acceptable to go into an ODI with David Willey at 7 and Adil Rashid at 8 is monumentally ridiculous.
Perhaps not but bowling first and having that batting line up massively undermined the chances. You cannot set up to chase any sort of total with Willey and Rashid at 7 and 8. They’re completely muddled in their thinking. It’s very end of a disastrous Ashes tour.
Post by: dcdavecollett on October 24, 2023, 12:26:02 AM
It took decades to wean ourselves off 60/55/and 40-over matches to give our players a chance at international level; now we've reverted to being Tory money-chasing twats!
Post by: UK Redsox on October 24, 2023, 09:57:27 AM
Post by: Rotterdam on October 24, 2023, 10:54:34 AM
The blame sits firmly with the ECB and their failure to build on the 2019 win. For the world champions to not have a domestic first class 50 over competition is ridiculous, whoever came up with the 100 should be ashamed. The game has been marginalised by that circus.
I couldn't agree more.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 24, 2023, 11:44:52 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67196886
I love Mark Wood but a three year deal with his injury record and age? Not sure if I’m reading too much into this but one year deals for Stokes and Jimmy could be indicative of what’s to come.
Post by: Richard on October 24, 2023, 06:11:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 24, 2023, 07:45:01 PM
Some interesting decisions on the new multi-year central contracts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67196886
I love Mark Wood but a three year deal with his injury record and age? Not sure if I’m reading too much into this but one year deals for Stokes and Jimmy could be indicative of what’s to come.
Stokes was offered 3. It sounds like those who took 3 wanted the security, but Stokes wanted to see the outcome of the broadcast negotiations next year.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:21:35 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 26, 2023, 10:23:08 AM
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2023, 10:28:41 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:45:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:46:36 AM
Post by: dubont on October 26, 2023, 10:46:58 AM
We've had it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:47:11 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:48:13 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:48:53 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 26, 2023, 10:54:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:57:51 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 10:59:08 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on October 26, 2023, 11:14:07 AM
Post by: LeeB on October 26, 2023, 11:16:51 AM
Post by: Gareth on October 26, 2023, 11:19:01 AM
Hope all those ‘new’ cricket fans they attracted in the bag of spanners competition don’t lose interest in the game or the England Rainfinders sponsored by Custard Creams
Post by: Lsvilla on October 26, 2023, 11:20:39 AM
It also underlines just how good a captain Morgan really was.Yep. However much Rob Key gets praised for the appointment of Baz to coach the test team the appointment of Mott is also on him. Sack him immediately after this tournament and get Morgs in as coach for the WI tour in December to build for the T20 World Cup next year and shape a team for the next World Cup in SA.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 12:08:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 12:14:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 12:17:46 PM
Post by: LeeB on October 26, 2023, 12:18:02 PM
Jesus wept.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 12:20:14 PM
Post by: tricky59 on October 26, 2023, 12:24:36 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 12:54:14 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 26, 2023, 01:18:44 PM
It is a bit of head scratcher as to why we have been so bad. Just wonder if it's a tournament too far for some of these players.
Post by: Richard on October 26, 2023, 02:11:26 PM
I've kept a bit quiet on this thread as I think I jinxed it by saying what a good white ball team we were back at the start of September! This tournament has been an unmitigated disaster though and as bad as if not worse than 1999 and 2015.
It is a bit of head scratcher as to why we have been so bad. Just wonder if it's a tournament too far for some of these players.
First time ever that England have had an entire team aged 30 or older, so I'd say definitely yes!
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 02:33:51 PM
I think they’ve been blasé and arrogant - they look unprepared and frankly embarrassing. It’s the antithesis of what led up to 2019.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 02:57:39 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 26, 2023, 03:00:57 PM
Some of these central contract offers are looking a bit clumsy.
I think they’ve been blasé and arrogant - they look unprepared and frankly embarrassing. It’s the antithesis of what led up to 2019.
I don't know Paul. A lot of those players have got a lot of credit in the bank and maybe the constant treadmill of international cricket has caught up with them this time.
The test tour of India will now be a real marker if it's just a blip or a sign that some have reached the end of the road.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 03:05:39 PM
The sum of the World Cup preparation seems to be - “most of this lot were involved in 2019, that’ll do”.
Clearly those in power take flak as well.
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2023, 03:06:25 PM
"England are 147 for 9 with 18.1 overs remaining"
Jesus wept.
It's not even a decent T20 score! When England cricket do terrible, there really is nobody worse.
Post by: Risso on October 26, 2023, 03:08:31 PM
Not even 60 overs bowled today, dismal.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 03:26:06 PM
Post by: olaftab on October 26, 2023, 03:34:10 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 26, 2023, 03:44:00 PM
It’s the lack of clear thinking that tells you how unprepared they are. They’ve not got a clue what their best team is. Livingstone playing 6 rings massive alarm bells, Willey at 7 in the last game the same.
When your first choice team gets blown away a few times then it is always going to impact on thinking. I can see the thinking behind Livingstone's selection as that third spin option in Indian conditions, but he just hasn't fired with the bat at all.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 04:13:03 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 04:17:19 PM
Wedging in Stokes destroyed team direction and spirit. A shameful act that’s delivered the disaster it coveted.😡
Yes I don’t think that’s helped, but mainly because it speaks to the attitude towards 50 over cricket. You either want to play it or you don’t, you can’t pick and choose.
Given their lack of cohesion and prep it is absolutely bonkers that they played a “B” team against Ireland. There were 3 potential games (I know there was rain) to work on the team structure, and they didn’t take them.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on October 26, 2023, 04:37:50 PM
Post by: Rory on October 26, 2023, 08:20:41 PM
"England are 147 for 9 with 18.1 overs remaining"
Jesus wept.
It's not even a decent T20 score! When England cricket do terrible, there really is nobody worse.
We have this incredible ability to just seemingly give up if things aren't going our way. Only WI & Pakistan at their worst rival it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 26, 2023, 09:34:15 PM
Post by: Steve67 on October 26, 2023, 10:30:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 08:10:23 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 08:47:55 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 08:50:28 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 09:28:33 AM
Post by: Monty on October 29, 2023, 01:29:27 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 01:39:12 PM
Post by: Monty on October 29, 2023, 01:45:39 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 01:46:13 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 01:54:17 PM
Post by: Monty on October 29, 2023, 01:54:37 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 01:58:05 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 01:59:11 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 02:25:41 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 02:55:27 PM
Post by: Steve67 on October 29, 2023, 02:57:44 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 02:57:46 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 03:19:37 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 03:26:44 PM
Post by: Monty on October 29, 2023, 03:29:14 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: KNVillan on October 29, 2023, 03:51:11 PM
Post by: Steve67 on October 29, 2023, 03:52:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 03:54:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 04:01:27 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on October 29, 2023, 04:42:41 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 29, 2023, 05:57:11 PM
Love Stokes but he shouldn’t have just waltzed back in. They look like a team who doesn’t have a clue on the best side - muddled, without a plan, pretty awful. It takes some doing to put out England’s worst World Cup effort but this is it.
Have to.wonder how this has happened and some serious questions need to be asked really. The timing of the announcement about the contracts can't have helped, bug there seems to be something gone on.
Post by: Lsvilla on October 29, 2023, 06:03:23 PM
Morgan alluded to that I believe today. Woakes was asked and denied it - as of course he would - but rarely smoke without fire.Love Stokes but he shouldn’t have just waltzed back in. They look like a team who doesn’t have a clue on the best side - muddled, without a plan, pretty awful. It takes some doing to put out England’s worst World Cup effort but this is it.
Have to.wonder how this has happened and some serious questions need to be asked really. The timing of the announcement about the contracts can't have helped, bug there seems to be something gone on.
Post by: Risso on October 29, 2023, 07:42:09 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 07:51:37 PM
Post by: Gareth on October 29, 2023, 09:10:11 PM
Undercooked, badly & arrogantly prepared….got exactly what they deserve. Deserve to finish bottom
Can’t think of any sport that a World Cup win was capitalised on less…ECB are clowns
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 29, 2023, 09:22:42 PM
But they shouldn’t have marginalised the 50 over game domestically. Although I don’t think that’s the issue with this World Cup to be honest.
Post by: Gareth on October 29, 2023, 10:22:00 PM
Post by: Rory on October 30, 2023, 01:35:27 AM
I'm convinced Hundred games even last longer than t20s because of the non-stop talking between deliveries.
Post by: tomd2103 on October 30, 2023, 09:16:41 AM
I’ll be honest I think the Hundred has done some good things, mainly for the women’s game.
But they shouldn’t have marginalised the 50 over game domestically. Although I don’t think that’s the issue with this World Cup to be honest.
I keep hearing this "it has done good things for the women's game" but has it really? Would a better structured T20 competition have done the same or even more? I'm not having a go at you Paul by the way, but it just seems that this whole "it's done good things for the women's game" line is trotted out to defend the existence of the tournament.
I mean what are the metrics being used to determine that it has done well for the women's game?
Post by: Villan For Life on October 30, 2023, 09:25:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2023, 09:28:05 AM
I’ll be honest I find it hard to engage with, but I’m not the target audience.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 30, 2023, 09:37:31 AM
The ECB can’t get the balance between successful red and white ball teams right. From 2015 to 2019 the focus was on white ball cricket and the test side suffered, now the focus is on red ball cricket and white ball cricket has suffered. We play too many test matches, we’ve played 50 tests in the last four years. In that period South Africa have played 25 tests, New Zealand 29, Pakistan 30 and the Aussies/Indians 34. I love test cricket but we must get the balance right so that our red and white ball teams can prosper at the same time.
Post by: Gareth on October 30, 2023, 11:20:47 AM
The Hundred hasn’t affected this squad though has it? It didn’t hamper their development as international white ball players.
It has though, we raced through an Ashes series to get half the summer clear for it, arguably those in the Ashes peaked for that and offered little to the 50 over side, we played a whole domestic 50 over comp with pretty much zero appearances from the World Cup squad, the standard wasn’t great but it never would be if top domestic players are excluded. Had the Blast took place when the nonsense was on it would have been understandable as that is a format with a World Cup in it.
Post by: Villan For Life on October 30, 2023, 11:58:22 AM
The Hundred hasn’t affected this squad though has it? It didn’t hamper their development as international white ball players.
It has though, we raced through an Ashes series to get half the summer clear for it, arguably those in the Ashes peaked for that and offered little to the 50 over side, we played a whole domestic 50 over comp with pretty much zero appearances from the World Cup squad, the standard wasn’t great but it never would be if top domestic players are excluded. Had the Blast took place when the nonsense was on it would have been understandable as that is a format with a World Cup in it.
The Ashes was played early because of the 50 over World Cup starting in early October, it was nothing to do with the Hundred.
Post by: Gareth on October 30, 2023, 12:12:44 PM
Post by: Monty on October 30, 2023, 12:18:34 PM
Post by: Gareth on October 30, 2023, 12:37:07 PM
Fundamentally I'm happy The Hundred has been a relative failure, it would've been so much worse had it succeeded, I hate it, it's stupid, it's the death of everything I love about cricket and I hope it burns in hell.
Agree, I’m not fundamentally opposed to some form of franchise cricket to help subsidise our domestic structure…it’s trying to invent a format that is utterly ridiculous with NO international value that grinds my gears.
Post by: Risso on October 30, 2023, 02:12:50 PM
Fundamentally I'm happy The Hundred has been a relative failure, it would've been so much worse had it succeeded, I hate it, it's stupid, it's the death of everything I love about cricket and I hope it burns in hell.
Agree, I’m not fundamentally opposed to some form of franchise cricket to help subsidise our domestic structure…it’s trying to invent a format that is utterly ridiculous with NO international value that grinds my gears.
Agreed, we just didn't need T20 minus 20, utterly ridiculous.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 30, 2023, 04:39:27 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on October 30, 2023, 11:47:16 PM
Well who knows, but I think the rebrand has helped mean it carved a path as something “new”. That probably made it easier to engage a new audience and also made it more appealing to the broadcasters. As a whole I think there were 14m odd viewers for the Hundred in 2022, that’s not a small number.
I’ll be honest I find it hard to engage with, but I’m not the target audience.
I suppose that could be the case Paul, where that initial interest was sparked by something 'new' and different. Would be interesting to know whether those viewing figures held this year though.
I think it was the other Paul who said that it risks become a bit of an echo chamber on here and it's a fair point, as I like many others seem to dislike it immensely. The two main positives I've heard repeated are the broadcast deal it has secured with SKY and the BBC up to 2028 and thsg money is filtered down to counties and that it has been good for the women's game.
I would love to hear the point of view of someone who is a real advocate of it and is entirely honest about it (including the real financial picture around it and doesn't talk about the big crowds without mentioning the number of free tickets that are given away etc.) as I just don't see it.
Post by: charlatan on October 31, 2023, 12:03:51 AM
Well done Afghanistan. Also further demonstrates how woeful England have been.How? They had both already beaten England easily and one of them was always very likely to beat the other.
Post by: PaulWinch again on October 31, 2023, 06:55:52 AM
Post by: paul_e on October 31, 2023, 09:02:25 AM
Well who knows, but I think the rebrand has helped mean it carved a path as something “new”. That probably made it easier to engage a new audience and also made it more appealing to the broadcasters. As a whole I think there were 14m odd viewers for the Hundred in 2022, that’s not a small number.
I’ll be honest I find it hard to engage with, but I’m not the target audience.
I suppose that could be the case Paul, where that initial interest was sparked by something 'new' and different. Would be interesting to know whether those viewing figures held this year though.
I think it was the other Paul who said that it risks become a bit of an echo chamber on here and it's a fair point, as I like many others seem to dislike it immensely. The two main positives I've heard repeated are the broadcast deal it has secured with SKY and the BBC up to 2028 and thsg money is filtered down to counties and that it has been good for the women's game.
I would love to hear the point of view of someone who is a real advocate of it and is entirely honest about it (including the real financial picture around it and doesn't talk about the big crowds without mentioning the number of free tickets that are given away etc.) as I just don't see it.
I'm not an advocate for it, and I don't think you'll find one, but I think it's worth revisiting why the competition exists. For me the ECB are responsible for the most significant, and impactful change the game has ever seen in the form of t20.
They created it and showed the world that a version of the sport which lasted a few hours had huge appeal to drive attendances and sponsorship and 'save' the sport in a lot of ways. At the time it was nearly as controversial as the hundred is now but people quickly got onside with it and a new 3 format balance was established.
The problem, from the ECB point of view, is that India came along and stole it from them, creating the premier version of the competition and becoming the global audience tournament that attracts the big money. A big part of the reason for that was the draft which couldn't really happen with a county based competition so a city franchise tournament was inevitable.
The Hundred therefore came about from them wanting both a new franchise based competition that could have all the excitement of the drafting but also to open up potential new investment by creating a competition that wasn't in the shadow of the IPL. I don't think it's worked very well in either case but it's clearly what they were going for.
The big success was to put womens and mens games on the same ticket.
Post by: Risso on October 31, 2023, 09:23:18 AM
Post by: olaftab on October 31, 2023, 09:45:29 AM
Whilst disappointed at England's demise I am excited by Afghanistan's rise in this competition. They play cricket under enormous difficulty. ICC sorry BCCI need to provide them mure support.Well done Afghanistan. Also further demonstrates how woeful England have been.How? They had both already beaten England easily and one of them was always very likely to beat the other.
Post by: simboy on October 31, 2023, 10:14:46 AM
Once India decided to run with T20, England didn't stand a chance. The most popular, if not only major sport in a country of nearly 1.5 billion people. All the Hundred has done is dilute one of the areas of the game we were genuinely very good at.
The concept of the 100 was dreamt up by the ECB to appease Sky I think. I read something on line that without Sky money most of the non-test counties would collapse, i am not sure about women's cricket, but again its a good revenue source. It perhaps represent the way the ECB see UK cricket moving, to a concentrated feed for the international team. Unlike football no oil state is going to swoop in to save Gloucestershire.
there has to be a fundamental restructure if the game here is to survive, with a reprioritising. Some counties are doing that better than others. I think Warwickshire have belatedly recognised the talent pool with local clubs and leagues, [not just the Birmingham league] they have around.
I dislike the 100 as a game. It impacts detrimentally on the county game 4 day game and a decent 50 over competition. It still seems incredulous to me that a D'Ollivera was playing his home cricket at Edgbaston for the 100 ... but the revenue it brings in may have a greater impact.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 01, 2023, 06:44:37 PM
Well who knows, but I think the rebrand has helped mean it carved a path as something “new”. That probably made it easier to engage a new audience and also made it more appealing to the broadcasters. As a whole I think there were 14m odd viewers for the Hundred in 2022, that’s not a small number.
I’ll be honest I find it hard to engage with, but I’m not the target audience.
I suppose that could be the case Paul, where that initial interest was sparked by something 'new' and different. Would be interesting to know whether those viewing figures held this year though.
I think it was the other Paul who said that it risks become a bit of an echo chamber on here and it's a fair point, as I like many others seem to dislike it immensely. The two main positives I've heard repeated are the broadcast deal it has secured with SKY and the BBC up to 2028 and thsg money is filtered down to counties and that it has been good for the women's game.
I would love to hear the point of view of someone who is a real advocate of it and is entirely honest about it (including the real financial picture around it and doesn't talk about the big crowds without mentioning the number of free tickets that are given away etc.) as I just don't see it.
I'm not an advocate for it, and I don't think you'll find one, but I think it's worth revisiting why the competition exists. For me the ECB are responsible for the most significant, and impactful change the game has ever seen in the form of t20.
They created it and showed the world that a version of the sport which lasted a few hours had huge appeal to drive attendances and sponsorship and 'save' the sport in a lot of ways. At the time it was nearly as controversial as the hundred is now but people quickly got onside with it and a new 3 format balance was established.
The problem, from the ECB point of view, is that India came along and stole it from them, creating the premier version of the competition and becoming the global audience tournament that attracts the big money. A big part of the reason for that was the draft which couldn't really happen with a county based competition so a city franchise tournament was inevitable.
The Hundred therefore came about from them wanting both a new franchise based competition that could have all the excitement of the drafting but also to open up potential new investment by creating a competition that wasn't in the shadow of the IPL. I don't think it's worked very well in either case but it's clearly what they were going for.
The big success was to put womens and mens games on the same ticket.
Sorry Paul, I didn't mean that you were an advocate, just that you had said that it was thoroughly disliked by a certain section of cricket lovers (probably well represented on here) and the risk was an echo chamber that didn't acknowledge positives that others might see. I thought that was a fair point.
I dislike it immensely and would be pleased it it was scrapped tomorrow, but I don't think it is likely to be honest. Last year I went to a dinner where Paul Farbrace was guest speaker (he was still at Warwickshire at the time). When it was opened up for questions, the first question was about the Hundred. His pretty blunt response was that the SKY deal meant that the counties saw money from it. I do actually wonder if the counties are that opposed to it in reality as long as they can play the 50 over tournament during that window. That way they get the revenue from a full Blast programme and the Hundred money on top.
Post by: paul_e on November 01, 2023, 10:07:25 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 02, 2023, 12:40:18 AM
I didn't take it that way, I was just saying that despite not being an advocate for it I can see why it exists.
Fair enough Paul. It's interesting that Key, Goulding and Thompson all changed their tune on it when they stepped on board the ECB gravy train.
Back to on the field matters and South Africa are still looking very strong. De Kock has been in red hot form so far, but the big question about them is whether they have peaked and whether they can maintain the form. I still think their tail looks a bit long if they are needed for closer games.
It might be because England have been so poor, but it is starting to drag a bit now. The finalists will have played 11 games by the time it has finished which seems an awful lot really.
Post by: Gareth on November 02, 2023, 08:05:50 AM
Post by: Gareth on November 02, 2023, 02:22:50 PM
Post by: manic-road on November 02, 2023, 06:42:17 PM
Sri Lanka were 14-6….on fire now up to 22-6
The tail wagged a tiny bit, all out for 55.
Post by: Gareth on November 02, 2023, 08:22:46 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2023, 08:23:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2023, 01:03:33 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2023, 01:28:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 04, 2023, 02:34:56 PM
Sign of a top team, when you are in trouble the tail Enders more than double the score. 👌🏽Sri Lanka were 14-6….on fire now up to 22-6
The tail wagged a tiny bit, all out for 55.
Post by: paul_e on November 04, 2023, 02:36:43 PM
We will obviously need to go for it at some point but even a small acceleration for the next 10 without losing wickets would see us going into th elast 20 with a good ahcnace of taking something. I'd also have a lot more faith in Buttler and Livingstone if they're coming in for 15-20overs and need to add quick runs than them needing to anchor an innings for 30-40overs.
Post by: paul_e on November 04, 2023, 02:45:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2023, 03:52:51 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 04, 2023, 03:58:08 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2023, 04:36:25 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2023, 04:58:02 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 04, 2023, 05:06:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 04, 2023, 05:52:32 PM
Livingstone will end up as a bowling all rounder.
He’s getting on a bit to develop enough.
Post by: Villan For Life on November 06, 2023, 10:54:19 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 06, 2023, 12:06:46 PM
Angelo Matthews has been given out timed out in the Bangladesh v Sri Lanka game. That’s something that I have never seen before in any form of cricket.
Definitely a first in international cricket, there's already a fair few stories about it around the press.
This one is the best I can find and suggests it's happened 6 times before.
Post by: Lsvilla on November 06, 2023, 12:12:20 PM
I don't think so. He's 30. Will be fine for the next World Cup all things being equal. His bowling's not that far away and to be able to switch between off and leg spin is a massive talent. What I meant with my original comment was he'd drop one place in the order and bat at 8 in the ODI side when Woakes has moved on. Ideally we're finding a quick bowling all rounder to replace stokes in the top 6 to balance the side as well.Livingstone will end up as a bowling all rounder.
He’s getting on a bit to develop enough.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 06, 2023, 01:49:04 PM
Angelo Matthews has been given out timed out in the Bangladesh v Sri Lanka game. That’s something that I have never seen before in any form of cricket.
Definitely a first in international cricket, there's already a fair few stories about it around the press.
This one is the best I can find and suggests it's happened 6 times before.
Easy enough to say when you're not the one facing the bowling with a dodgy helmet, but why didn't he just face a ball and then asked for it to be changed?
Post by: paul_e on November 06, 2023, 01:54:08 PM
Post by: LeeB on November 06, 2023, 02:34:04 PM
For me Livingstone is like a lot of modern all-rounders who've come through in the t20 era. He's capable of some destructive hitting but struggles to balance that with the need to sometimes bat out 30-40overs. On top of that he's come into this tournment looking 'undercooked' (like the entire batting line-up) and the outcome is that he's looked a liability.
Not knocking your appraisal mate but I just find the concept of batsmen looking undercooked odd, I can understand with bowlers and their rhythm but you can either twat the ball or you can't.
As someone who was always more bowler than batsman that may be my bias because I always considered them lazy bastards and gloryhunters.
Post by: UK Redsox on November 06, 2023, 02:53:20 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67333235
However, this one is different, because Mathews has already faced a delivery
Post by: Richard on November 06, 2023, 07:08:16 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 06, 2023, 07:53:33 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 06, 2023, 08:40:29 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on November 06, 2023, 09:36:39 PM
I didn't think he had faced a delivery?
I think you’re right.
The report I read said that the strap broke after his ball.
I suspect that’s incorrect info.
Post by: paul_e on November 07, 2023, 12:38:00 AM
It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
Post by: dcdavecollett on November 07, 2023, 01:23:55 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 07, 2023, 03:14:01 PM
He was totally unprofessional Paul. He was time lapsed even before he arrived at the crease and then started fanning about with the strap. He represented the current state of SL cricket.It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
Post by: Risso on November 07, 2023, 03:47:32 PM
It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
Agreed. It was a load of nonsense similar in a way to a ref in football penalising a keeper for time wasting when they're 2-0 down.
Post by: paul_e on November 07, 2023, 03:48:30 PM
He was totally unprofessional Paul. He was time lapsed even before he arrived at the crease and then started fanning about with the strap. He represented the current state of SL cricket.It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
I don't disagree but I still think you have to be an arsehole to 'take a wicket' like that, as mentioned above it's similar to the bullshit Australia pulled with Bairstow or Mankading. Make a point to the umpire, have it noted that he was being a twat but don't stoop so low as to cheese a wicket for it.
I have no sympathy for SL cricket and I think they're responsible for many of the most egregious acts of bullshit in the sport over the last 20 years or so but I just don't like seeing shit like this creep into the sport, I see it as the cricket equivalent of hanging out a leg and hoping for contact to win a penalty.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 07, 2023, 04:19:05 PM
Post by: LeeB on November 07, 2023, 04:23:03 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 07, 2023, 07:20:30 PM
I think it was other way round. Nonsense came from the batter. Mathews was either very poorly prepared or up to mega shithousery delaying restart to break Bowler's rhythm. Either way he disrespected the game, the opposition and Umpires. The 4th Umpire said he was out of time long before getting to the crease. There is a reason for two minute time window, it keeps the game at peak level and applies maximum pressure on batting team.Agreed. It was a load of nonsense similar in a way to a ref in football penalising a keeper for time wasting when they're 2-0 down.It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
Post by: Villa Lew on November 07, 2023, 07:58:02 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 07, 2023, 11:19:52 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on November 08, 2023, 12:22:08 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on November 08, 2023, 10:11:40 AM
We need to win our last two games to have a chance of qualifying for the Champions Trophy don't we?
Post by: Risso on November 08, 2023, 10:21:06 AM
Post by: paul_e on November 08, 2023, 10:41:16 AM
Post by: Risso on November 08, 2023, 11:22:43 AM
Buttler gone really cheaply again, it just feels cruel to keep picking him at this point, he's fallen apart as completely as I've ever seen.
That was one of the worst shots you'll ever see. Horribly mis-timed and just very, very weak. The fielder will never take an easier catch.
Post by: paul_e on November 08, 2023, 12:16:49 PM
Buttler gone really cheaply again, it just feels cruel to keep picking him at this point, he's fallen apart as completely as I've ever seen.
That was one of the worst shots you'll ever see. Horribly mis-timed and just very, very weak. The fielder will never take an easier catch.
it was awful, picked him out and lobbed it up for a catch that anyone would take with ease, if you were trying to get yourself caught out you couldn't make it any easier.
That said it beren a great partnership from Stokes and Woakes since and England should now have enough on the board to take this one if they bowl even close to their ability.
Post by: Risso on November 08, 2023, 12:28:09 PM
Post by: Richard on November 08, 2023, 12:29:23 PM
Can see the likes of Duckett, Salt and Jacks playing in the near future to freshen up the batting. Maybe Hain too.
Post by: Gareth on November 09, 2023, 11:00:41 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 09, 2023, 11:21:41 AM
Sri Lanka 131-9, presuming last wicket doesn’t add loads and NZ knock them off its a good result for Englands race for 7th lol in that Pakistan have nothing to play for in the last match.
As small comforts go, that’s one of the smallest that I’ve seen.
Post by: Gareth on November 09, 2023, 11:31:37 AM
It sure is a very small comfort…..all those new fans they’ve attracted playing shit & giggles in August might lose interest in cricket if England don’t qualify for Champions Trophy:-)Sri Lanka 131-9, presuming last wicket doesn’t add loads and NZ knock them off its a good result for Englands race for 7th lol in that Pakistan have nothing to play for in the last match.
As small comforts go, that’s one of the smallest that I’ve seen.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 10, 2023, 12:47:35 AM
Sri Lanka 131-9, presuming last wicket doesn’t add loads and NZ knock them off its a good result for Englands race for 7th lol in that Pakistan have nothing to play for in the last match.
As small comforts go, that’s one of the smallest that I’ve seen.
Was thinking that myself today. It's the very bottom rung in terms of achievement.
Post by: JD on November 10, 2023, 06:57:50 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2023, 06:59:59 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on November 11, 2023, 05:40:37 PM
However, the ICC continues to allow Afghanistan to compete even though they Taliban have banned the women's team.
The view of the ICC is that as long as Afghanistan are acting within the laws of the country, that's fine. Even if said laws are misogynistic.
Both stories covered in this Beeb article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67384199
Post by: Lsvilla on November 11, 2023, 05:46:12 PM
Sri Lanka suspended by the ICC due to government interference in the running of the sport.
However, the ICC continues to allow Afghanistan to compete even though they Taliban have banned the women's team.
The view of the ICC is that as long as Afghanistan are acting within the laws of the country, that's fine. Even if said laws are misogynistic.
Both stories covered in this Beeb article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67384199
It's a good job the cricket world didn't take the same approach to apartheid in SA and just continue playing against them.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 11, 2023, 11:00:32 PM
Be interesting to see how they go forward from here. Is Buttler the right man to captain it or does it need freshening up would be question number one.
Post by: Villan For Life on November 12, 2023, 07:55:19 AM
Squads for the 50 over/T20 series in the Caribbean in December
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 12, 2023, 08:24:13 AM
Post by: Gareth on November 12, 2023, 10:02:35 AM
Post by: olaftab on November 12, 2023, 10:40:10 AM
I accept your point on SA but there the apartheid regime was proud of its sporting prowess and particularly “purity” however its slightly different in Afghanistan. There we have a government who will hand you 20 lashes for taking part in idle stuff playing football or cricket. So we have a duty to nourish Afghan cricket wherever we can and in whatever way.Sri Lanka suspended by the ICC due to government interference in the running of the sport.
However, the ICC continues to allow Afghanistan to compete even though they Taliban have banned the women's team.
The view of the ICC is that as long as Afghanistan are acting within the laws of the country, that's fine. Even if said laws are misogynistic.
Both stories covered in this Beeb article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67384199
It's a good job the cricket world didn't take the same approach to apartheid in SA and just continue playing against them.
Post by: tomd2103 on November 15, 2023, 03:00:46 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 16, 2023, 12:27:37 PM
Post by: Richard on November 16, 2023, 01:39:24 PM
South Africans once again choking. India v Australia final, the worst option ever IMO.
Totally agree. Can they both lose somehow.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 19, 2023, 09:23:25 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 19, 2023, 10:25:06 AM
Post by: Steve67 on November 19, 2023, 11:14:45 AM
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2023, 11:47:25 AM
Anyone but Australia for me. I turned on just as the second wicket fell so I haven't seen a boundary in well over an hour. I understand the conservatism from the batters but I wonder when they start going for it again.
Disagree, this turning of the World Cup (and arguably the whole sport) into a sycophantic Modi lovefest deserves a high-profile disappointment.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 19, 2023, 12:21:59 PM
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2023, 12:27:46 PM
I agree that a humiliation in front of 100 odd thousand fans would be hilarious but does it have to be bloody Australia handing it out?
I know, it's not ideal, but the cards have been dealt and that's what it is.
Post by: Risso on November 19, 2023, 12:31:09 PM
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2023, 12:33:02 PM
I just can't bring myself to be as anti- anybody else as I can the Aussies.
Spend five minutes with a fervent Modi fan and you'd want Steve Hodge to beat him up.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 19, 2023, 12:42:46 PM
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2023, 12:48:05 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on November 19, 2023, 01:46:39 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 01:53:02 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 01:58:55 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 19, 2023, 02:01:30 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 02:47:51 PM
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2023, 02:49:19 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 02:51:53 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on November 19, 2023, 03:07:08 PM
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 03:13:13 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 19, 2023, 03:24:00 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 19, 2023, 03:25:23 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 19, 2023, 03:31:12 PM
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2023, 03:46:41 PM
Post by: Monty on November 19, 2023, 03:54:16 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on November 19, 2023, 03:54:22 PM
Post by: paul_e on November 19, 2023, 03:58:11 PM
Post by: ventnorVillain on November 19, 2023, 04:02:24 PM
Innings of a lifetime from Travis Head. Top Aussie 'tache as well. If they don't clinch the thing it won't be his fault, that's for sure.
Travis was our club's overseas player in 2013. Top lad.
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 04:08:26 PM
Ground was half empty at the end as well.Can't blame them 9pm is normally rush hour in Ahmedabad so they needed to beat the traffic.
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 04:11:18 PM
Funny how, since it became obvious they were going to lose, we've hardly seen any shots of Modi himself whatsoever? Weird this.Haha, yes indeed. However any lack of opportiniuy for that awful racist narcissist bigot to shine is welcomed.
Post by: olaftab on November 19, 2023, 04:12:03 PM
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 19, 2023, 04:17:51 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on November 19, 2023, 05:09:25 PM
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
They’ve had a good year, unfortunately
Post by: Villa Lew on November 19, 2023, 05:14:03 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 19, 2023, 05:31:11 PM
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
They’ve had a good year, unfortunately
Still couldn't win the Ashes over here, the cheating pricks
Post by: Villan For Life on November 19, 2023, 05:36:53 PM
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
They’ve had a good year, unfortunately
Still couldn't win the Ashes over here, the cheating pricks
Still the world test champions and now the 50 over world champions. And unfortunately the they didn’t cheat this time around
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 03, 2023, 09:43:53 PM
That’s another really poor game to lose.
Post by: paul_e on December 03, 2023, 10:17:43 PM
Sam Curran is having a rough old time at the mo.
That’s another really poor game to lose.
It is but you have to give credit to WI, that's an incredible performance in the last 10-11 overs.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 03, 2023, 10:25:00 PM
Post by: aj2k77 on December 04, 2023, 12:14:33 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 04, 2023, 12:19:13 AM
Post by: Rory on December 04, 2023, 12:37:53 AM
Absolutely, and frankly anything that can reinvigorate West Indies cricket will do for me. Shai Hope is a ridiculous, and largely unfulfilled, talent. I always hope something, no matter how small, can be the launchpad for them again.
I often think that, then I remember Marlon Samuels and decide 'nah, fuck 'em'.
Post by: Lsvilla on December 04, 2023, 01:18:55 AM
Haha like it. Remember him running out Lara on his bow out game against us in the 2007 World Cup at Kensington Oval ? I was there and the (local) crowd were adamant he'd done him like a kipper. Google it. Certainly looks bad haha.Absolutely, and frankly anything that can reinvigorate West Indies cricket will do for me. Shai Hope is a ridiculous, and largely unfulfilled, talent. I always hope something, no matter how small, can be the launchpad for them again.
I often think that, then I remember Marlon Samuels and decide 'nah, fuck 'em'.
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 04, 2023, 01:24:05 AM
I think Sam needs to be left out for his own sake.
Post by: Lsvilla on December 04, 2023, 01:31:48 AM
Hard to believe that Jacks didn't bowl a ball on a turning pitch.Totally agree with this and I think even just a couple of overs sneaked in when Hope / Hetmyer were beginning their innings' would have given Jos some options at the end and he could have got away with only bowling Sam for 8 or 9. Little things. But suggest maybe he's not the man for the job. Or they'll win by 200 runs on Wednesday !
I think Sam needs to be left out for his own sake.
Post by: tomd2103 on December 04, 2023, 12:46:00 PM
Hard to believe that Jacks didn't bowl a ball on a turning pitch.
I think Sam needs to be left out for his own sake.
Even more so when you look at the bowling figures. Curran went for nearly 10 an over, Carse went for 8 and Atkinson went for 6. In contrast, Ahmed went for 4 an over off 10 and Livingstone 5 an over off 10. Looks like they read the conditions wrong.
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 04, 2023, 01:13:11 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 05, 2023, 12:43:38 AM
Post by: Lsvilla on December 05, 2023, 02:26:57 AM
There does seem to be a gap in terms of reacting to the situation, be that in game or even before the game when the conditions differ to what you’re expecting. They seem to have a plan and that’s it.I've thought that for a while. Even things like persisting with bouncers or slower ball bouncers because that's what the stats told them beforehand rather than captaining on instinct. No idea whether it's Jos or Mott but it doesn't look great
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 06, 2023, 01:47:25 AM
Does anyone know how much cricket he's played in the last six months?
Post by: Villan For Life on December 06, 2023, 05:13:15 AM
Jos himself looks pretty shot at the moment.
Does anyone know how much cricket he's played in the last six months?
He’s been playing non-stop since the end of August but had a break with the early World Cup exit. Prior to that his last international action was back in March and he played around a dozen games in the IPL. Add in the Hundred and the Blast and he’s playing pretty much all the time. He needs a break from the game to prioritise his own well being.
Post by: Gareth on December 06, 2023, 10:46:27 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 07, 2023, 01:34:36 AM
Post by: Risso on December 07, 2023, 05:30:56 PM
Bangladesh had a batsman given out for obstructing the field, gloving away the ball…only 2nd batsman in tests to have that…guess the World Cup controversy meant NZ we’re never going to not appeal
Doesn't sound right, I remember Gooch being out once for knocking the ball away with his hand, and Michael Vaughan has done it too. Unless I've misunderstood, which is possible!
Post by: dcdavecollett on December 08, 2023, 12:41:17 AM
Is there a rule for this called 'handling the ball'?
Post by: Lsvilla on December 08, 2023, 01:59:42 AM
I vaguely recall the Gooch incident. He brushed the ball away to prevent it hitting the stumps. Little doubt he would have been out had he not done it so in this event the ruling was fair enough.Not as such anymore. The "Handled the Ball" and "Obstructing the Field" modes of dismissal were merged about 18 months back under the latter definition.Which also explains Risso's question about how often this specific mode of dismissal has been evident. Although to add confusion there is very little evidence to suggest that what the Bangladeshi batter did caused any obstruction to the field - and having seen it it was just a bit of a brain fade.
Is there a rule for this called 'handling the ball'?
Post by: Risso on December 08, 2023, 08:43:50 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 11, 2023, 08:05:35 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 16, 2023, 10:39:26 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 05, 2024, 06:58:46 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67881684
The Saffers were all out for 55, India went from 153-4 to 153 all out in less than 2 overs and still won the test.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 17, 2024, 02:02:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 21, 2024, 09:01:47 AM
Post by: KNVillan on January 22, 2024, 10:28:01 AM
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1749370739059290440?t=pbM1rWTwWGUFiiIrnjQHbg&s=19
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2024, 12:51:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2024, 08:58:31 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 24, 2024, 02:12:08 PM
Post by: Dr Butler on January 24, 2024, 02:38:58 PM
Blimey 3 spinners and 1 seamer, with two of the spinners being Hartley and Rehan. The seamer is Wood, so Leach is potentially going to have to bowl a lot of holding overs.
add Root into that as well...unless Stokes can bowl a few.
UTV
The Doc
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 24, 2024, 02:58:11 PM
Post by: Villa Lew on January 24, 2024, 03:55:31 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 25, 2024, 12:23:30 AM
Yeah Root is a good option, but I don’t really see him holding. It’s a very bold selection in terms of bowling options.
Unless Stokes is using a bit of kidology, I can't see any other option than opening the bowling with a spinner. Wood isn't really an opening bowler either, so maybe we'll.open with two spinners?
It doesn't really give us a lot of options tbh.
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 07:54:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 07:57:22 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 08:04:51 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 25, 2024, 08:06:00 AM
Need to get to 200-220 though first
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 09:10:48 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 25, 2024, 09:34:12 AM
The rank amateurs on Talksport2 are saying Root will take the new ball with Mark Wood, I think we are in for an interesting last session.
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 09:35:04 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2024, 09:36:34 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 09:39:33 AM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 09:45:34 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 09:46:50 AM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 25, 2024, 09:50:29 AM
Yep immediately under pressure. To be fair he couldn’t wish for a better captain in this circumstance.
Imagine if Cook were still the captain, Hartley wouldn’t bowl for England again.
Post by: Monty on January 25, 2024, 09:50:54 AM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 09:52:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 10:02:14 AM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 10:15:26 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 10:15:56 AM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 10:23:49 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 25, 2024, 10:25:40 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 10:30:33 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2024, 10:43:18 AM
There will still be plenty in the pitch, but we’re bowling too poorly to exploit any of it at the moment. We need a bit of a reset, this is still a pitch where 2/3 can go quite quickly.
I'd add the caveat to the "2/3 can go quite quickly" that you need test match level spinners for that to be a possibility
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 10:50:10 AM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 12:54:39 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2024, 12:59:38 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 01:09:03 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2024, 01:16:54 PM
Chastening day - worst bit was the first two reviews, desperate and just poor.
It's no surprise how dominant India have been. We've effectively got a trio of county spinners (2 of whom could potentially be ok in a few years, and maybe slightly harsh on Leach) trying to bowl to world class batsmen in their home conditions. Compared to the 3 quality spinners they have. I didn't expect anything other than a 5-0 drubbing and besides some sort of freak cyclone causing play to be abandoned somewhere, today has only solidified that belief.
Ultimately the ECB need to be far more proactive in trying to bring spin bowlers through. There's been a lot thats been excellent about English test cricket over the last 18 months or so, but to go into a tour like this and have these be the best spin options is horrendous
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 01:27:43 PM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 01:57:28 PM
Winning in India is next to impossible at the best of times. Going there with 3 spinners who between them have played 1 test match, all of whom have very medicore FC records gives you absolutely no chance. Leach is ok at test level, but no more than that really. It really is shocking the lack of competent spin options our system is creating.
Agreed. Leach has been decent, but in a containing and not letting the batsmen score quickly sort of way. He's certainly not a matchwinning wicket taker for the most part.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 02:26:22 PM
The three wasted reviews was really poor and was indicative of panic/rustiness. The last one was fair enough out of context, but due to the first two, which were ridiculous, it wasn’t nailed on enough to risk losing the opportunity for the rest of the innings. But that’s gone now, and tomorrow they have to come out and be a lot more accurate, and hope India make some mistakes.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 25, 2024, 02:36:33 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2024, 02:46:42 PM
We will never produce international class, effective spinners when the red ball game in this country is marginalised by the white ball game.
Absolutely. We haven't had a good spinner since Swann
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 25, 2024, 02:56:20 PM
I think fixing the spin issue is really tough. You’ve got counties that want to protect their interests, which is understandable, and the game just isn’t set up for spinners really.
playing pretty much all 4 day cricket in April and May, and then a bit in September certainly doesn't help it. Conditions like those will always encourage teams to stack their bowling with dibbly dobbly seamers. As people have mentioned, the shorter format is the cash cow for the ECB though
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 08:14:08 PM
Post by: Risso on January 25, 2024, 08:17:23 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 25, 2024, 08:39:47 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 25, 2024, 09:29:35 PM
Spinners can be massively effective in the IPL, Rashid Khan is one of the best players around. I think part of the problem with English spinners in India is even when you are bowling spin in England you typically need to bowl in a different way if you’re going to be successful in India. In England flight and drift is key, but India it’s more about firing it into the pitch. That’s why you’re seeing players like Hartley and Bashir selected - they see them as having the style that suits Indian pitches. But by definition they’re not really suited to English pitches, so they don’t really build up the experience they need. It’s a bit of a catch 22.
I'm not sure the IPL helps much though. The spinners that do well in the IPL are either already world class or naturally bowl flatter and quicker. You do hit on the problem though, the key to developing top level spinners is to get them to bowl a lot of deliveries as quickly as possible, and the only way to do that is to incentivise counties to play them even if they aren't taking as many wickets as they'd like.
Rehan Ahmed and Shaoib Bashir are both very promising because they're both getting regular gametime very young. So long as England don't ruin them by calling them up to carry water and let them play regular 4day cricket I can see both being very good in a few years.
I'm less certain of Hartley because he's quite a bit older and still looks a bit raw, if he does make it it'll be on a similar path to Swann where he's only really ready when he's already up around 30.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 25, 2024, 10:54:44 PM
Yeah, but let’s face it there wasn’t this conveyer belt of top class spinners back in the day either. Since the turn of the century we’ve only really had two properly high class spinners (Swann and Panesar). Even before that it was still fairly slim pickings. I don’t know the answer, although playing some cricket that requires spinners would clearly help. It feels like it needs a rethink.
Agreed, someone like Swann is very much the exception rather than the norm.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 26, 2024, 01:04:52 AM
How do spinners generally get on in the IPL Paul? Assuming they're useful because it's Indian pitches, you'd think that would be a reason for some English spinners to get good at the art?
Spinners are a very useful commodity in T20 cricket (top ten in the world are usually pretty much all spin bowlers. A lot of their wickets doe seem to come from catches in the deep though after batters have gone after them.
Post by: Monty on January 26, 2024, 09:38:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2024, 09:42:58 AM
Post by: simboy on January 26, 2024, 10:20:02 AM
I am forever the optimist!
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2024, 11:33:32 AM
For the next Test we have to have two seamers, because we need to be able to control the game better. We’d still be massively up against it, but it wouldn’t entirely impossible.
Post by: olaftab on January 26, 2024, 11:38:41 AM
Spinners can be massively effective in the IPL, Rashid Khan is one of the best players around. I think part of the problem with English spinners in India is even when you are bowling spin in England you typically need to bowl in a different way if you’re going to be successful in India. In England flight and drift is key, but India it’s more about firing it into the pitch. That’s why you’re seeing players like Hartley and Bashir selected - they see them as having the style that suits Indian pitches. But by definition they’re not really suited to English pitches, so they don’t really build up the experience they need. It’s a bit of a catch 22.It's fingers v wrist issue.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 26, 2024, 01:26:22 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 26, 2024, 06:28:46 PM
We’ll be bowled out for less than 120 in the second innings. Reality is this isn’t a 350 pitch, but a lack of control and just poor bowling generally has given India way too many freebies.
Yep, would be surprised if it goes on any longer than tomorrow. I am a big fan of the test format, but this is the first time I can feel just a touch of apathy creeping in.
It's probably.because we knew it was going to be a tough tour, but I can't remember an England trst series where the build up has been so low-key. Even down to the team flying in just 3 days before the test started, it seems almost am.inconvenience.
You then look around the world and see horrible mis-matches being played out in virtually empty stadiums and you do have to.question how long this can go on for.
Post by: paul_e on January 27, 2024, 10:01:33 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 27, 2024, 10:04:40 AM
On a pitch so heavily tailored to them and such an inexperienced attack I reckon taking this into the 4th innings is a decent showing. If one of Root, Biarstow or Stokes could've stuck around we might even have posted a decent target.
Agree Paul, they've battled hard here which has bern good to see.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 27, 2024, 10:12:31 AM
Its too late to make this game competitive unfortunately
Post by: tomd2103 on January 27, 2024, 10:36:32 AM
Agh, Foakes got a stinker there that just rolled. Really unlucky as he'd batted really well to that point.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 27, 2024, 10:43:01 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 27, 2024, 11:07:13 AM
Post by: Richard on January 27, 2024, 11:15:07 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 27, 2024, 11:16:39 AM
That’s a brilliant effort from England, even with defeat here it at least gets them into the series.
Post by: simboy on January 27, 2024, 11:25:40 AM
The England attack isn’t good enough to take down the Indian batting for under 250. I think it’s the right balance but there’s no Swann, Underwood or even Panesar to rip through that batting. Our best spin bowler is probably our best batsman.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 27, 2024, 11:51:59 AM
Rehan definitely has potential with the bat, he’s shown here if he doesn’t just try and slog it he’s very useful.
That’s a brilliant effort from England, even with defeat here it at least gets them into the series.
We could really do with a spinner who can also bat 6/7 if Stokes isn't going to bowl.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 27, 2024, 12:05:05 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 27, 2024, 01:06:08 PM
We have clawed our way back into this test and India now know that they have a series on their hands. After the first innings I thought we were in for a long series, we will probably lose this test but at least we have shown a bit of fight and that is good news for the series as a whole.
Post by: Richard on January 28, 2024, 07:29:53 AM
Shamar Joseph looks handy - Smith and Labuschange as your first two Test wickets isn’t bad.
Looks more than handy! Well done the Windies.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on January 28, 2024, 07:56:12 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 28, 2024, 07:56:53 AM
Shamar Joseph looks handy - Smith and Labuschange as your first two Test wickets isn’t bad.
Looks more than handy! Well done the Windies.
Their first test win in Australia since 1997.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 28, 2024, 08:00:40 AM
We couldn't. Could we?
We could yes, India look rather subdued and without their talisman they lack leadership.
What a comeback with the ball during this test from Tom Hartley and he’s scored some important runs too.
I thought Pope batted so well, it’s a shame that he didn’t get his double ton, but it was a career defining knock.
Post by: Risso on January 28, 2024, 09:08:41 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on January 28, 2024, 09:11:02 AM
Unbelievable stuff. Another wicket for Hartley.
2-131 off 25 overs in the first innings, so far 4-31 off 11 overs in the second.
Post by: Villan For Life on January 28, 2024, 09:20:54 AM
Post by: Risso on January 28, 2024, 09:21:37 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2024, 09:24:05 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 28, 2024, 09:37:14 AM
Post by: manic-road on January 28, 2024, 09:41:04 AM
Shamar Joseph looks handy - Smith and Labuschange as your first two Test wickets isn’t bad.
Looks more than handy! Well done the Windies.
Brilliant result fo the Windies, can't think of many losses at the Gabba for the Aussies.
Post by: manic-road on January 28, 2024, 09:42:30 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 28, 2024, 09:47:31 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2024, 09:47:31 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2024, 09:48:49 AM
Unreal run out by Stokes. To get the speed on the throw from that position was superb.Just a superb natural athlete.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on January 28, 2024, 09:53:16 AM
Post by: Ads on January 28, 2024, 09:56:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2024, 10:09:56 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2024, 10:27:20 AM
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 28, 2024, 10:34:02 AM
This is some comeback by England, even if India win the match - and as Villa fan and England cricket fan I've seen too many winning positions thrown away to even consider England as favourites at the moment. But either way, they haven proven they have nothing to fear playing in India.
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2024, 10:36:49 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2024, 10:52:44 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2024, 11:19:04 AM
Post by: Gareth on January 28, 2024, 11:39:47 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2024, 11:47:21 AM
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2024, 12:01:21 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on January 28, 2024, 12:03:42 PM
Post by: Monty on January 28, 2024, 12:04:57 PM
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 28, 2024, 12:09:25 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 28, 2024, 12:11:56 PM
We’ll be bowled out for less than 120 in the second innings. Reality is this isn’t a 350 pitch, but a lack of control and just poor bowling generally has given India way too many freebies.
Yep, would be surprised if it goes on any longer than tomorrow. I am a big fan of the test format, but this is the first time I can feel just a touch of apathy creeping in.
It's probably.because we knew it was going to be a tough tour, but I can't remember an England trst series where the build up has been so low-key. Even down to the team flying in just 3 days before the test started, it seems almost am.inconvenience.
You then look around the world and see horrible mis-matches being played out in virtually empty stadiums and you do have to.question how long this can go on for.
Well that post certainly did the trick! West Indies win in Australia for the first time since 1997 and England record one of their finest wins that I can recall.
Post by: Risso on January 28, 2024, 12:15:03 PM
Post by: paul_e on January 28, 2024, 12:20:23 PM
Post by: simboy on January 28, 2024, 12:26:16 PM
Before this India had lost 3 tests in 10 years (46 games) at home, they had never lost with a 100 run advantage after first innings.
Pope’s innings is the highest ever in India in an England second innings.
Brave captaincy, a belief throughout the side and brilliant execution.
Post by: olaftab on January 28, 2024, 12:36:47 PM
Incredible win. How do you pick between Pope and Hartley for motm?It’s easy. Hartley could have still picked up 7 and England lost the Test match, Pope’s 196 made the most significant contribution in this result. So MotM Ollie Pope.
Post by: Monty on January 28, 2024, 12:41:51 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 28, 2024, 12:50:21 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2024, 02:55:28 PM
Good win that.
Before this India had lost 3 tests in 10 years (46 games) at home, they had never lost with a 100 run advantage after first innings.
Pope’s innings is the highest ever in India in an England second innings.
Brave captaincy, a belief throughout the side and brilliant execution.
Blimey I’d like to see what you rate above “good”! Incredible, and remarkable comeback from Hartley.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2024, 03:41:11 PM
Post by: simboy on January 28, 2024, 05:14:14 PM
Good win that.
Before this India had lost 3 tests in 10 years (46 games) at home, they had never lost with a 100 run advantage after first innings.
Pope’s innings is the highest ever in India in an England second innings.
Brave captaincy, a belief throughout the side and brilliant execution.
Blimey I’d like to see what you rate above “good”! Incredible, and remarkable comeback from Hartley.
I didn’t expect much from the series too be fair. If England sustain it and we win the series then that will be incredible and remarkable. Just my opinion.
Yes, Hartley did very well to recover from a very poor first spell (6 overs for 50 odd runs) but thought he actually bowled ok after that once he got over his nerves in the first innings, better in the second as you say. Allowing him to keep going was the brave captaincy and squad belief … no Broad teapots or Pietersen moaning.
Just my opinion as I say.
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 28, 2024, 08:12:19 PM
Post by: manic-road on January 29, 2024, 01:40:26 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on January 29, 2024, 03:45:12 PM
If you enjoy cricket watch the highlights of Shamah Joseph’s spell to win the game for the Windies. Unbelievable stuff.
Along with Brian Lara's reaction in the comms box to the final wicket falling.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 29, 2024, 03:48:46 PM
Brilliant as Hartley was, and it was an incredible, match-winning effort, we'd have been dead without that Pope innings, one of England's all-time greatest in the subcontinent.
One of England's greatest innings ever given the circumstances I would have though. Only shame was that he couldn't quite get to that well deserved double hundred.
Post by: tomd2103 on January 29, 2024, 03:52:44 PM
Watching the highlights back some of those Hartley deliveries were top class, the seam position was superb.
He was almost unplayable at times on that last day. The number of times he beat the edge of the Indian batsmen with sharp turning balls was quite unbelievable. Got some useful runs as well.
Post by: paul_e on January 29, 2024, 04:02:27 PM
Brilliant as Hartley was, and it was an incredible, match-winning effort, we'd have been dead without that Pope innings, one of England's all-time greatest in the subcontinent.
One of England's greatest innings ever given the circumstances I would have though. Only shame was that he couldn't quite get to that well deserved double hundred.
It was spectacular and I'm in no way downplaying how good an innings it was but he's the vice captain, Hartley was on debut and had been smashed around in the first innings. I get that batsmen who put up a big innings will uually get the plaudits but I think, as an achievement, what Hartley did was just as big a deal.
Post by: LeeB on January 29, 2024, 04:18:54 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 01, 2024, 12:40:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2024, 12:46:43 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 01, 2024, 08:19:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 01, 2024, 09:32:48 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 01, 2024, 09:45:36 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 01, 2024, 10:19:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2024, 07:58:12 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 02, 2024, 08:32:14 AM
If the pitch does turn out to be a little less vicious than Hyderabad it will place lot of burden on england's inexperienced spin attack.
Yeah its really flat, no turn at all really at the moment.
Post by: Ads on February 02, 2024, 09:26:59 AM
Post by: simboy on February 02, 2024, 09:48:51 AM
Looks like a road this.
from what I have read, it tends to be for the first two or three days, although admittedly the sample size is rather small, with only two tests played there before.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2024, 09:54:36 AM
Post by: Gareth on February 02, 2024, 09:57:15 AM
Looks like a road this.
from what I have read, it tends to be for the first two or three days, although admittedly the sample size is rather small, with only two tests played there before.
If that’s the way it goes we are really going to have to be on it 1st innings with the bat and get a parity score on the board, 3 or 4 significant contributions required
Post by: LeeB on February 02, 2024, 10:33:28 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 02, 2024, 10:42:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2024, 11:06:07 AM
Post by: simboy on February 02, 2024, 11:13:58 AM
If we can restrict to under 430 I think we are in with a chance. The danger is, obviously Ashwin and Bumrah on a wearing pitch, day 4.
Post by: paul_e on February 02, 2024, 12:34:50 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 02, 2024, 12:49:51 PM
Post by: LeeB on February 02, 2024, 02:59:43 PM
I think this pitch will be flat for up to 3 days and then it’ll break up. Batting last will be tough.
You've got to hope that if we can match or better their 1st innings score then the pressure of us already being up in the series and their top order not being majorly experienced might take its toll, and this kind of situation is something Stokes seems quite adept at grasping.
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 02, 2024, 04:46:26 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 02, 2024, 04:47:32 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 02, 2024, 07:06:23 PM
I’ve never heard of Bashir (until today’s play), but he could be awesome - a spinner at 6’4” brings back memories of how the extra height made Tony Greig a menace. Rehan seems to have settled in nicely, as of course Hartley, so from a lack of spinners we have a lot of potential.
I suspect that they will be nowhere near the team come the home tests in the summer, it will be back to Jack Leach. Horses for courses picks for this tour but the future does look promising.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 03, 2024, 08:21:08 AM
Post by: simboy on February 03, 2024, 08:24:33 AM
Brilliant spell by Bumrah.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 03, 2024, 08:56:44 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on February 03, 2024, 09:31:39 AM
Bumrah is an incredible bowler. I saw him live once and he’s something else.
His name is also an excellent primary school insult to be delivered to children who are excessively into Thundercats in 1989.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 03, 2024, 09:34:52 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 03, 2024, 11:14:08 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 03, 2024, 11:38:58 AM
123-3 (25.5 overs) Root
136-4 (27.5 overs) Pope
159-5 (35.4 overs) Bairstow
172-6 (38.2 overs) Foakes
Post by: olaftab on February 03, 2024, 11:40:15 AM
Big trouble now, staring down a massive deficit.This match is gone unless England can knock them over for around 150.
Post by: Monty on February 03, 2024, 11:47:28 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 03, 2024, 11:49:33 AM
Yes more like middle order below were the culprits rather than Indian bowling.
123-3 (25.5 overs) Root
136-4 (27.5 overs) Pope
159-5 (35.4 overs) Bairstow
172-6 (38.2 overs) Foakes
Agreed, no matter how well they bowled that's a really poor effort from the middle order.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 03, 2024, 04:17:06 PM
Post by: olaftab on February 04, 2024, 10:25:59 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 04, 2024, 10:33:41 AM
Post by: simboy on February 04, 2024, 01:09:05 PM
Yadev to take a Michelle.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 05, 2024, 06:06:57 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2024, 08:20:18 AM
Post by: simboy on February 05, 2024, 08:59:08 AM
No Englishman did what Pope did last game and get a big ton (or a ton at all!). That makes a huge difference in mind set, even though Crawley was only 20 away in each inning.
Another positive is we are not 17-2 every game with Root strolling to the crease.
Kholi back for the third test? It will only get more difficult but, win the toss and give yourself a chance.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 05, 2024, 09:07:43 AM
Totally agree. Cannot be 140 behind on a pitch that is only going to get worse after first knock. To get within 110 with our best batter (and bowler?) injured is definitely something to build on.
No Englishman did what Pope did last game and get a big ton (or a ton at all!). That makes a huge difference in mind set, even though Crawley was only 20 away in each inning.
Another positive is we are not 17-2 every game with Root strolling to the crease.
Kholi back for the third test? It will only get more difficult but, win the toss and give yourself a chance.
Brook is a big miss for us. If there is any chance of him being back for the third test that would help.
We've performed way way above expectations in this series so far. It was ultimately a brilliant spell of reverse swing from Bumrah in our first innings that turned the game and though we battled admirably with bat and ball afterwards, too much was left to do.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2024, 09:24:07 AM
Post by: simboy on February 05, 2024, 11:03:27 AM
Brook is a big miss I agree, but perhaps a blessing in disguise this game as if he was batting 5 England would probably not have started all three young spinners, and, with Root unavailable in the second inning, that would have been a big ask of the two who would have played.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 05, 2024, 11:41:06 AM
I wonder if England will play Dan Lawrence if Root is injured? Perhaps move Stokes to four and play both Anderson and Wood. Rahul back as well for the Indians, although where he will fit in I shudder to guess.
Brook is a big miss I agree, but perhaps a blessing in disguise this game as if he was batting 5 England would probably not have started all three young spinners, and, with Root unavailable in the second inning, that would have been a big ask of the two who would have played.
I dare say that Foakes (unluckiest cricketer in England), would be taken out of the team to accomodate Brook and Bairstow given the gloves.
Post by: simboy on February 05, 2024, 01:22:29 PM
I wonder if England will play Dan Lawrence if Root is injured? Perhaps move Stokes to four and play both Anderson and Wood. Rahul back as well for the Indians, although where he will fit in I shudder to guess.
Brook is a big miss I agree, but perhaps a blessing in disguise this game as if he was batting 5 England would probably not have started all three young spinners, and, with Root unavailable in the second inning, that would have been a big ask of the two who would have played.
I dare say that Foakes (unluckiest cricketer in England), would be taken out of the team to accomodate Brook and Bairstow given the gloves.
You may be right, but I don't see that happening in India. May be in Australia or South Africa where it's pace and bounce at least for a large part of the game.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2024, 02:28:17 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 05, 2024, 02:46:45 PM
Decent fist of it, but that gap on first innings was too much.
Bit like the first test in that one superb knock practically won the game. Means we were well beaten in the end, but totally wiped the floor with.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 05, 2024, 04:58:55 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 06, 2024, 01:06:26 AM
If Gill hadn't got a scratch on the ball that hit him in front, that just might have been 2-0.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 06, 2024, 01:04:23 PM
Don't care what DRS says. That Crawley wicket is bullshit
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/05/cricket-hawk-eye-england-india-stokes-crawley
Stokes saying the same now. I still don't think that pitched in line at all
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on February 07, 2024, 09:18:06 AM
Don't care what DRS says. That Crawley wicket is bullshit
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/05/cricket-hawk-eye-england-india-stokes-crawley
Stokes saying the same now. I still don't think that pitched in line at all
It was slightly unreal. I sat back, relieved, when the replays were shown. It was easily outside leg and the going on to miss leg.
Not having a class all-rounder is biting us (Root was doing his best). Stokes is a good captain and gives fighting spirit, but that's all he's bringing to the side at the moment. No bowling an his batting is awful, especially by his standards.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 07, 2024, 01:13:55 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 11, 2024, 09:15:56 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 12, 2024, 01:02:44 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 12, 2024, 01:34:31 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 13, 2024, 01:30:41 AM
Post by: UK Redsox on February 13, 2024, 02:28:12 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 13, 2024, 03:37:35 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 13, 2024, 04:07:15 PM
Visa issue for Rehan now. This is pretty poor.
And that’s not a coincidence, oh no. Just after Leach gets ruled out the machinery of Indian politics throws this spanner in our spinning works.
Post by: Bully2345 on February 13, 2024, 04:31:35 PM
I think I read it on Guardian
Post by: Villan For Life on February 13, 2024, 04:41:13 PM
From what I've read, this one is squarely on England. Rehan had a single trip Visa leftover from the World Cup when he was a standby and then they've left the country and gone to UAE between tests.
I think I read it on Guardian
At least he’s in India, although that’s no guarantee that he will be able to play in the third test.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 14, 2024, 09:50:31 AM
Post by: PGW on February 14, 2024, 10:24:47 AM
Wood in for Bashir, that's only change
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 15, 2024, 08:56:22 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 15, 2024, 10:43:25 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 15, 2024, 12:08:41 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 16, 2024, 08:19:08 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2024, 08:46:35 AM
Post by: LeeB on February 16, 2024, 10:56:16 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2024, 11:41:54 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 16, 2024, 11:50:47 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 16, 2024, 12:05:33 PM
Stunning knock from Duckett. Platform is there, really need Root to contribute tomorrow. This is a brilliant series either way, so much ebb and flow.
Would obviously like us to win all the remaining games, but a couple of draws would set up a winner-takes-all final test which would be a great proposition.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 16, 2024, 12:25:52 PM
Stunning knock from Duckett. Platform is there, really need Root to contribute tomorrow. This is a brilliant series either way, so much ebb and flow.
Would obviously like us to win all the remaining games, but a couple of draws would set up a winner-takes-all final test which would be a great proposition.
No chance of a draw. This England team doesn't even consider a draw as a possibility
Post by: dubont on February 16, 2024, 05:59:14 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 16, 2024, 09:07:24 PM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 17, 2024, 07:25:18 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 17, 2024, 07:57:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 17, 2024, 08:21:00 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 17, 2024, 09:21:16 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 17, 2024, 09:25:22 AM
Post by: olaftab on February 17, 2024, 09:51:41 AM
That is a pretty shocking effort. Root and Bairstow are really delivering nothing this series.Root reverse sweep gobbled up by slip fielder was indeed a shocking effort.
Post by: Risso on February 17, 2024, 10:59:31 AM
Post by: Richard on February 17, 2024, 11:48:51 AM
Post by: KevinGage on February 17, 2024, 12:09:04 PM
That is a pretty shocking effort. Root and Bairstow are really delivering nothing this series.Root reverse sweep gobbled up by slip fielder was indeed a shocking effort.
Pretty brainless stuff from Root and Hartley with the bat, considering the match situation.
I know Bazball boofball is supposed to be front foot attack attack attack. But there's still some merit to playing yourself in and maybe getting to 20/30 before you try the extravagant premeditated shots.
Boof ODI merchants like Bairstow and (previously Butler) can prob look to go big from the first or second ball. But Root at his best scores at a decent lick with the method that's served him well up until this year, so I don't get what he's trying to do now.
Post by: Monty on February 17, 2024, 12:28:30 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 17, 2024, 06:50:24 PM
Nah Ben it’s ok to acknowledge that you aside we haven’t been very good here. It’s not a master plan and we almost certainly won’t chase whatever massive total is set.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 17, 2024, 07:23:22 PM
I love the way that England approach the game, but that should not make them immune from criticism. Its almost as though "oh well, thats the way they play", is used as a shield to deflect from poor efforts. The collapse today was truly pathetic. The pitch was stl good and Ashwin wasn't a factor.
Post by: Villan For Life on February 18, 2024, 05:01:06 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 18, 2024, 07:52:01 AM
Declared….Jaiswal batted beautifully and Sarafaraz looks a real find.
Post by: Villafirst on February 18, 2024, 08:23:29 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 18, 2024, 08:36:10 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 18, 2024, 09:28:04 AM
Post by: Villafirst on February 18, 2024, 09:36:34 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 18, 2024, 10:20:20 AM
However, there’s no getting away from the fact that the last two days have been absolutely shocking from a performance level point of view, irrespective of the style of play. I hope they front into that internally (I’m sure they won’t in the press). It’s fine to have a positive mindset, but you have to understand why things have gone wrong. The other broader problem this series is they’ve failed/borderline failed in all their first innings with the bat.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 18, 2024, 12:37:57 PM
Post by: Monty on February 18, 2024, 12:44:44 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on February 18, 2024, 06:11:33 PM
Oh dear the wheels are fully off.
You feel that one of these kind of performances is always just round the corner. To be fair, they have been few and far between in the Stokes / McCullum.era, but it never feels far away.
Post by: Villa Lew on February 19, 2024, 09:14:13 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 20, 2024, 12:55:52 AM
I would have expected a batsman short of runs like Root in this series to make the most of a flattish pitch, good conditions against a depleted bowling attack in a tight situation where runs were important. So he gets 'in' and then plays a shot like THAT!
Clearly, it's a collective buy-in. The captain, who played really well before lunch, twats one into the deep straight after and is caught near the rope...
BazBall? How about trying NousBall now and again?
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2024, 01:09:54 AM
Post by: simboy on February 20, 2024, 06:16:21 AM
Very few teams win a test match in India let alone a series. The first game of this series was won by a positive approach, giving the bowlers time to get 20 wickets with a monumental effort by Ollie Pope when behind.
Bowling second on the tracks as they tend to deteriorate from day 3 onwards helps, as does having two or three proven test match spinners - England have one who’s taken 50+ wickets and he’s in the side for his batting. To have Ashwin commenting on day two of the test that despite India scoring 445 they were n trouble is a real mark of how much this team and its approach is respected.
Personally I’d look to strengthening the middle order as Root, Stokes, Bairstow are out of nick. If Dan Lawrence's bowling was more reliable I’d think of him at 7 move Foakes to 8 and either rest a seamer or Bashir. But it’s not, that’s the fault of county cricket and that’s a whole other moan.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 20, 2024, 06:39:39 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 20, 2024, 06:47:38 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2024, 09:35:48 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 20, 2024, 09:43:19 AM
I think the pitches have been excellent for Test cricket.
I agree. I should clarify that by "tame", I meant a far cry from the raging turners they served up the last time England toured.
Post by: aj2k77 on February 20, 2024, 09:53:55 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 20, 2024, 11:35:20 AM
He plays that shot on occasion Bazball or not, the problem is the timing more than anything- and I think that’s a manifestation of his form struggles.
Post by: simboy on February 20, 2024, 12:01:31 PM
I think the pitches have been excellent for Test cricket.
I agree. I should clarify that by "tame", I meant a far cry from the raging turners they served up the last time England toured.
I don't disagree. It's just that we don't have the bowlers to really exploit them when they turn.
Post by: tomd2103 on February 21, 2024, 11:30:46 AM
I don’t think “Bazball” is a problem, this team is miles better than it was 18 months ago. They just played poorly, but they shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
They don't seem the type to do that to be honest. I imagine that they will just put it down to a bad day and move on to the next test.
Post by: paul_e on February 21, 2024, 11:58:48 AM
I don’t think “Bazball” is a problem, this team is miles better than it was 18 months ago. They just played poorly, but they shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Exactly, there's got to come a point where we don't follow every loss with a conversation of whether bazball is a problem. We managed to get there with the 'fannying around at the back' under Emery and the same needs to happen with England Cricket.
Post by: dcdavecollett on February 22, 2024, 01:04:44 AM
Still, that doesn't mean hooking Aussie fast bowlers and getting caught in the deep (repeat) didn't cost us the series last summer.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 22, 2024, 07:02:02 AM
I don’t think “Bazball” is a problem, this team is miles better than it was 18 months ago. They just played poorly, but they shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Exactly, there's got to come a point where we don't follow every loss with a conversation of whether bazball is a problem. We managed to get there with the 'fannying around at the back' under Emery and the same needs to happen with England Cricket.
I agree, but the term, or the style of play shouldn't be used as some sort of shield when the performance is unacceptable in the way it was the 3rd morning of the last test with the bat
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 22, 2024, 08:30:14 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 23, 2024, 06:43:00 AM
It's not acceptable for a pitch to be doing that
Post by: Villan For Life on February 23, 2024, 07:14:38 AM
That Stokes dismissal on the first morning of a test match......
It's not acceptable for a pitch to be doing that
Stokes commented a couple of days ago that he had no idea about what the pitch would do, it really looks to be sub-standard for test cricket. I’d be surprised if this test gets as far as day three.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 23, 2024, 07:52:22 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 23, 2024, 08:15:36 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 23, 2024, 08:18:42 AM
Post by: simboy on February 23, 2024, 08:27:49 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 23, 2024, 08:32:43 AM
Post by: Villafirst on February 23, 2024, 08:38:28 AM
Post by: simboy on February 23, 2024, 09:07:40 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 23, 2024, 09:10:30 AM
Need both sides to bat on it to really know how good a pitch it is. India have by far the better bowlers to exploit this track. Prepared knowing Bumrah was rested? Or am I being overly cynical.
Agreed, but balls should not be rolling along the ground on the first morning of a test
Post by: Villan For Life on February 23, 2024, 10:44:49 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 23, 2024, 10:45:22 AM
Post by: Gareth on February 23, 2024, 10:51:15 AM
Post by: Risso on February 23, 2024, 11:06:55 AM
Post by: Monty on February 23, 2024, 11:45:24 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 23, 2024, 11:47:09 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 23, 2024, 11:49:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2024, 08:21:53 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 24, 2024, 08:39:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2024, 08:43:35 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2024, 09:41:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2024, 09:52:59 AM
Post by: simboy on February 24, 2024, 10:08:18 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 24, 2024, 11:09:31 AM
Post by: Villan For Life on February 24, 2024, 11:11:54 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 24, 2024, 11:29:41 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 06:59:33 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 07:48:39 AM
Post by: Beard82 on February 25, 2024, 08:19:02 AM
Bugger Crawleys gone
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 08:24:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 08:28:32 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 08:30:40 AM
Really poor to let them get so close to our score. That said if, IF, we get another 100 runs it’ll be very tough for them.
I think we need a minimum of 300 for them to chase. The pitch isn't breaking up anything like as much as thought and with our inexperienced spinners they will be favourites
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 08:37:04 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 08:56:42 AM
Post by: simboy on February 25, 2024, 09:02:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 09:03:12 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 09:05:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 09:07:35 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 09:09:24 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 09:24:05 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 09:32:15 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 10:02:14 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 25, 2024, 10:02:56 AM
Absolutely pathetic shot from Bairstow
He's had a poor series, highest score in the 30's.
Post by: paul_e on February 25, 2024, 10:29:32 AM
I have sympathy for Foakes here but I’m not really sure what the plan is - we’ll get an unplayable ball sooner or later, particularly for the tail, and we’re not really going anywhere.
I agree, I get that he wanted to protect the tail but 1 run and over for such a long time seemed aimless.
Post by: olaftab on February 25, 2024, 10:30:48 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 10:32:47 AM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on February 25, 2024, 10:38:22 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 10:39:37 AM
Thrown away a promising position. Game is winnable but chances are slim.
It wasn't a promising position, it was a position from which they should have won the game at a canter.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 10:51:02 AM
Post by: Risso on February 25, 2024, 11:06:24 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 25, 2024, 11:20:18 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 25, 2024, 11:31:21 AM
India was always going to be tough, but England need to be a bit careful they don’t just become a very soft side. That’s two day 3’s in consecutive matches where they’ve had absolute shockers and lost the game. Really poor cricket.
Its 4 horrendous batting collapses already in the series. Been a lack of character in all honesty
Post by: Gareth on February 26, 2024, 07:43:58 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 26, 2024, 08:09:52 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 26, 2024, 08:19:20 AM
Post by: manic-road on February 26, 2024, 08:24:32 AM
Still some positives from the series including Hartley and Bashirs bowling at times.
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2024, 08:35:05 AM
Before the start of the series due to Indias excellent team and home form I didn't expect much from the tour. It didn't come as any surprise that too many times the batting collapsed again, but England could and possibly should have drawn the series, opportunities were given but lost.
Still some positives from the series including Hartley and Bashirs bowling at times.
This is about where I am, India at home are a very tough team to get anything from so even winning a match or 2 is a good result but it's hard to see it that way when we've had chances to win more.
Post by: simboy on February 26, 2024, 08:37:11 AM
It’s a learning experience for our youngsters but what it has confirmed is Bairstow is not suited to Indian wickets and is batting a place too high. I think they may bring in Laurence for the final game, rest Anderson and the perhaps push Bairstow down one.
Mind you if Robinson takes that catch when Jurel is 59 I think we win the game.
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2024, 08:50:50 AM
In the end the Indian side has better bowling options for the surface. Robinson didn’t even bowl in the second innings - we desperately needed a “ point of difference” and the young lad who unfortunately had to go home, Ahmed, was probably it.
It’s a learning experience for our youngsters but what it has confirmed is Bairstow is not suited to Indian wickets and is batting a place too high. I think they may bring in Laurence for the final game, rest Anderson and the perhaps push Bairstow down one.
Mind you if Robinson takes that catch when Jurel is 59 I think we win the game.
That's 1 of 5/6 what if moments and sadly we were on the wrong side of every one of them, the Robinson LBW yesterday was another big one, umpire's call for one that turned that much is tough to take.
Post by: PaulWinch again on February 26, 2024, 08:57:54 AM
Post by: simboy on February 26, 2024, 09:51:36 AM
In the end the Indian side has better bowling options for the surface. Robinson didn’t even bowl in the second innings - we desperately needed a “ point of difference” and the young lad who unfortunately had to go home, Ahmed, was probably it.
It’s a learning experience for our youngsters but what it has confirmed is Bairstow is not suited to Indian wickets and is batting a place too high. I think they may bring in Laurence for the final game, rest Anderson and the perhaps push Bairstow down one.
Mind you if Robinson takes that catch when Jurel is 59 I think we win the game.
That's 1 of 5/6 what if moments and sadly we were on the wrong side of every one of them, the Robinson LBW yesterday was another big one, umpire's call for one that turned that much is tough to take.
Umpires call is not something a batsman can do much about and I don’t go with the Vaughan conspiracy theory.
What a player can take a catch when it’s as straightforward as that one appeared to be. The Bairstow shot choice in both first and second innings was poor, and in the case of Robinson, second innings he didn’t look like he could hold a bat let alone hit any runs. He had already had one review overturned. He’d gone from an assured all rounder first knock to a number 11 second time around.
Anyway. There we are.
You were right Paul. I did understate that win in the first test. I was hoping for a really good series where England applied themselves, played the conditions and won two or three.
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2024, 09:58:17 AM
In the end the Indian side has better bowling options for the surface. Robinson didn’t even bowl in the second innings - we desperately needed a “ point of difference” and the young lad who unfortunately had to go home, Ahmed, was probably it.
It’s a learning experience for our youngsters but what it has confirmed is Bairstow is not suited to Indian wickets and is batting a place too high. I think they may bring in Laurence for the final game, rest Anderson and the perhaps push Bairstow down one.
Mind you if Robinson takes that catch when Jurel is 59 I think we win the game.
That's 1 of 5/6 what if moments and sadly we were on the wrong side of every one of them, the Robinson LBW yesterday was another big one, umpire's call for one that turned that much is tough to take.
Umpires call is not something a batsman can do much about and I don’t go with the Vaughan conspiracy theory.
What a player can take a catch when it’s as straightforward as that one appeared to be. The Bairstow shot choice in both first and second innings was poor, and in the case of Robinson, second innings he didn’t look like he could hold a bat let alone hit any runs. He had already had one review overturned. He’d gone from an assured all rounder first knock to a number 11 second time around.
Anyway. There we are.
You were right Paul. I did understate that win in the first test. I was hoping for a really good series where England applied themselves, played the conditions and won two or three.
What I mean is that an onfield umpire giving you out LBW to one that pitched 3-4 inches outside off and was clipping leg is pretty unlucky, nothing more than that. I mentioned it because we'd seen a little over a day earlier that he is capable of scoring important runs.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 26, 2024, 10:04:47 AM
Post by: paul_e on February 26, 2024, 10:07:15 AM
Roots LBW in the second innings is absolute horseshit. No way that pitched in line with leg stump
Yeah, that's another one that went against us and could've been very different.
Post by: simboy on February 26, 2024, 10:20:21 AM
Roots LBW in the second innings is absolute horseshit. No way that pitched in line with leg stump
but according to Hawkeye itself where the ball pitches is the only accurate point of reference, so no traffic light system. The superimposed lines are for television. Once it strikes the pad it could be off by a fraction because of it being 60 frames a second. And as such the "umpires call" allows for that. Thought Stephen Finn gave a good explanation yesterday.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on February 26, 2024, 12:10:29 PM
Roots LBW in the second innings is absolute horseshit. No way that pitched in line with leg stump
but according to Hawkeye itself where the ball pitches is the only accurate point of reference, so no traffic light system. The superimposed lines are for television. Once it strikes the pad it could be off by a fraction because of it being 60 frames a second. And as such the "umpires call" allows for that. Thought Stephen Finn gave a good explanation yesterday.
By the naked eye it pitched outside leg.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 01, 2024, 06:53:41 PM
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on March 04, 2024, 07:59:32 PM
The middle order is collectively wonky, though individual scores have been great.
Stokes contribution has been pretty good as a captain, crap as a batter, and of course no bowling
Post by: simboy on March 07, 2024, 08:04:24 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 07, 2024, 08:09:39 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2024, 08:12:31 AM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 07, 2024, 08:19:16 AM
They are the experience in this team and all of them badly failing has killed us.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2024, 08:29:46 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2024, 08:33:20 AM
Post by: Monty on March 07, 2024, 08:36:14 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2024, 08:39:21 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 07, 2024, 09:52:41 AM
Bairstow was fantastic in the first year of the new era, like beyond brilliant. But it’s ridiculous that they clearly haven’t entertained making a change given his form this series.
This is why I don't particularly rate him, he can be exceptional but if he isn't you rarely get 7/10 performance from him and he normally just dips straight down to absolute Blues.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2024, 09:56:46 AM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 07, 2024, 10:01:08 AM
@127J_H
BazBall started with a few great series and a couple of classic winter specials, but then they started telling us how brilliant they were whilst their output got steadily more impossible to watch.
So what I’m saying is that BazBall is Ricky Gervais.
Post by: paul_e on March 07, 2024, 10:03:18 AM
To be honest that feels a bit like what Pope is too. I might be being unfair and his stats prove otherwise, but he feels feast or famine.
Yeah I agree, he's another one I'm not sure of. The big difference is I really rate Pope in the field whereas the inconsistency Bairstow has with the bat flows into his fielding as well, whether he's in open field or wearing the gloves.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2024, 10:53:10 AM
Post by: manic-road on March 07, 2024, 12:20:21 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 07, 2024, 01:20:28 PM
To go from 100-1 to 218 all out is criminal, some awful shots played out there. I don't think Bairstow has even reached 40 in this series which isn't good enough.
Its been the same all series with the bat. If it wasn't for Ollie Popes miracle innings in the first test it would have been a 5-0 series.
The senior batsman have badly let the team down.
Post by: Risso on March 07, 2024, 01:46:42 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 07, 2024, 05:14:58 PM
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 07, 2024, 05:19:02 PM
I think England need to keep an eye on the balance between players feeling comfortable to express themselves and having competitive edge through competition. It’s a tricky one to strike, but it feels a bit too easy to stay in the side at the moment (if you’re a batsman).
I agree. What particularly irks is the delusional interviews players give after poor performances.
They need to take far more ownership
Post by: Villan For Life on March 08, 2024, 06:52:28 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 08, 2024, 09:03:18 AM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 08, 2024, 10:47:29 AM
I suppose you have to remember that India haven't lost a home test series in over ten years now, so we were always going to be up against it, and even more so with the squad we travelled with. The probelm with Bazball this series, is that for a couple of sessions it's given the team hope of getting something from it, but mostly it's just led to absolutely dismal batting collapses. If you accept it for it what it is, then it's going to win more than it loses. Could we have done better if we'd applied a bit of common sense at times? Possibly.
Let's be honest, it doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. The whole Test Championship idea hasn't really worked, so it's just another series really. The only time there is meaningful change in English cricket is when we are badly beaten in the Ashes.
I get the impression that there will be a collective shrug of the shoulders in the England camp and they will just move on to the next series. When I last looked the first two days of the West Indies test at Edgbaston were sold out and the third was well on the way to being so as well. The train keeps a rollin'.
Post by: Risso on March 09, 2024, 06:59:09 AM
Post by: Richard E on March 09, 2024, 07:07:00 AM
A terrible end to a rubbish series.
Pathetic brainless batting.
Post by: Risso on March 09, 2024, 07:20:28 AM
Post by: manic-road on March 09, 2024, 07:49:08 AM
Post by: Risso on March 09, 2024, 08:15:48 AM
Majority of the series has been poor, brainless batting again today by some who were playing 20/20 game shots. Well done Jimmy on 700 wickets which may well never be reached again by a seamer. Bairstow played a whole series without ever getting into the 40's.
He's got more runs in total than Stokes though, who apart from a couple of half decent scores has been absolutely terrible.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2024, 10:09:31 AM
Post by: Monty on March 09, 2024, 10:13:08 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2024, 12:40:15 PM
Post by: Lsvilla on March 09, 2024, 12:58:15 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 09, 2024, 01:51:47 PM
The stuff Stokes says about them being the best 6 batsmen so they have to play is something he needs to be careful with. I’ve said before that being too comfortable is not a good thing.
It's been a very 'cliquey' set up for years, so can't see them really changing anything in the batting department this summer Paul. Only change I can see is Brook coming back in at 5 and Bairstow moving to keep and bat at 7.
Woakes needs to come back in to bowl in home conditions and to bat at 8 to strengthen the tail. Guess that might depend on how long they are going to keep going with the sentimentality towards Jimmy Anderson though and which record he wants to try and break next.
Post by: olaftab on March 09, 2024, 02:09:06 PM
So the winter season ends with 6 defeats out of 9 in the World Cup, T20 and 50 over series defeats in the Caribbean and a 4-1 mauling in the India test series. Some reflection needed I think.Yup. Can you imagine trying to cheer this lot on in NZ later this year?😥
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2024, 07:45:18 PM
So the winter season ends with 6 defeats out of 9 in the World Cup, T20 and 50 over series defeats in the Caribbean and a 4-1 mauling in the India test series. Some reflection needed I think.Yup. Can you imagine trying to cheer this lot on in NZ later this year?😥
Jealous Aftab, watching test cricket in New Zealand is on the bucket list for me.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 09, 2024, 07:47:14 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 09, 2024, 09:46:19 PM
I find the notion that Bairstow will be given back the gloves when Brook returns highly disturbing!
Post by: tomd2103 on March 11, 2024, 11:47:40 PM
Big positive from this tour is the emergence of the spinners and the consistency of Crawley (who has shown he’s learnt). But there are lies of areas for improvement and hopefully they’re a little more reflective internally than they appear from the outside.
Do you think any of the spinners we have seen on the tour will become a fixture in the side at home and in other countries Paul?
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 12, 2024, 01:44:46 AM
Bashir, which in turn gives him a shot of being the sole spinner for England. Hartley will have a choice to make because Lyon is playing the whole summer for Lancs. On the one hand that’ll limit his chance of games I imagine, but also he’ll have a chance to learn from a great.
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 13, 2024, 02:51:19 AM
Post by: simboy on March 13, 2024, 05:43:30 AM
I thought we were a batsman light in India. My view is Stokes is in the wrong spot. Without his bowling, he has to be played as a batsman. As such I wonder if he could bat at 3. He’s the best technically of all the English team bar Root. If he could turn his arm over if needed all the better, but he shouldn’t be relied upon to have to do so.
That would allow England to accommodate both Pope and Brooke where they both feel comfortable with a long view of Brooke batting at 3, Pope is far too nervy for that spot currently.
Bairstow will continue at seven I suspect. An inferior keeper to Foakes but if it spins prodigiously in either England or New Zealand I would be surprised.
That allows England to play four bowlers. Depending on how long Jimmy wants to go on then it’s perhaps time to encourage some of the new seamers in alongside Wood. Atkinson and perhaps Carse. I can see Bashir fitting in but, with an eye on a point of difference I’d persist with giving Rehan Ahmed game time.
Post by: Villan For Life on March 13, 2024, 07:42:45 AM
I think Bairstow should go, he will make way for Harry Brook. Foakes must keep wicket and he’s a good, gritty lower middle order batsman.
I don’t think that there’s much wrong with the batting line up and we have Dan Lawrence in the mix too. Yes they failed miserably in India but I think there’s enough talent there.
The ages of our seam bowling unit is a worry, they are all mid-30’s and above and I haven’t seen too much quality to replace them. It’s been great to have Jimmy and Broady for so many test matches, that has been a huge positive but there is a downside to having two of the greatest swing bowlers of all time in your side. It can stifle the development of the next generation.
For once we have options in the spin department, three good English spinners, when was the last time we had that level of choice?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 13, 2024, 11:58:11 AM
Post by: Gareth on March 13, 2024, 12:26:31 PM
England have three Tests v Windies this summer before heading down to NZ. It’s a chance to re-evaluate, assuming the main aim is the 2025/6 Ashes.
I thought we were a batsman light in India. My view is Stokes is in the wrong spot. Without his bowling, he has to be played as a batsman. As such I wonder if he could bat at 3. He’s the best technically of all the English team bar Root. If he could turn his arm over if needed all the better, but he shouldn’t be relied upon to have to do so.
That would allow England to accommodate both Pope and Brooke where they both feel comfortable with a long view of Brooke batting at 3, Pope is far too nervy for that spot currently.
Bairstow will continue at seven I suspect. An inferior keeper to Foakes but if it spins prodigiously in either England or New Zealand I would be surprised.
That allows England to play four bowlers. Depending on how long Jimmy wants to go on then it’s perhaps time to encourage some of the new seamers in alongside Wood. Atkinson and perhaps Carse. I can see Bashir fitting in but, with an eye on a point of difference I’d persist with giving Rehan Ahmed game time.
Would def still have Woakes in there as a senior bowler too.
Post by: paul_e on March 13, 2024, 12:36:05 PM
I'd be looking at someone like James Rew from Somerset being given a chance with the gloves.
I agree, I'm not sure about Foakes, he's a good keeper but as a batsman I think he's an 8 or 9 at test level.
Post by: simboy on March 13, 2024, 03:38:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 13, 2024, 03:58:07 PM
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 14, 2024, 07:22:49 PM
Good player, mind; just in the wrong place.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 15, 2024, 01:57:01 AM
Post by: dcdavecollett on March 16, 2024, 12:35:48 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2024, 01:24:22 AM
Post by: Rory on March 16, 2024, 01:36:47 AM
(Speaking of which, I have an indirect anecdote about Trott. My mate happened to be in the changing rooms at the Edgbaston Priory at the same time as him, when a bloke wearing nothing but a towel went over and said, "Mr Trott, I'm a huge fan, it would make my day if you'd sign something for me". Trott apparently said, "sure, as long as whatever you want me to sign involves you keeping your towel on".)
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 16, 2024, 01:47:25 AM
Post by: Rory on March 16, 2024, 02:11:40 AM
Post by: simboy on March 16, 2024, 06:22:13 AM
I rate Pope and think he will be a mainstay in the batting line up. A natural four or five in future years, but he’s learning on the job at 3. I still say if Stokes is not playing the all rounder role then 3 is where he is best suited. He’s calm, builds his scores and, apart from Root, probably the best bat in the England team.