Have hardly heard or seen anything about the West Indies tour, so had a look at the BBC site to see if there was anything on there. Seems there is only 1 warm up fixture before the series starts (not even sure if it is a red ball game or separate white ball ones from the site) which seems a really short preparation given that they haven't played for a while.
Well just about finalised the trip to Caribbean. Fly off to Barbados on 17 February. Watching all one dayers and T20 matches in Barbados, Grenada, St Lucia and St Kitts. Decided to not go for Test matches as we don’t expect them to be competitive or much atmosphere due to current state of West Indies cricket.
Well just about finalised the trip to Caribbean. Fly off to Barbados on 17 February. Watching all one dayers and T20 matches in Barbados, Grenada, St Lucia and St Kitts. Decided to not go for Test matches as we don’t expect them to be competitive or much atmosphere due to current state of West Indies cricket.
So Broady is rested. Rash is in. Unfortunately from that point of view we are bowling first and Curran isn't on the money. I'm worried that we are loading our batting too heavily, to leave Stuart out is a risk, it could leave the selectors with a certain amount of egg on face...
So Broady is rested. Rash is in. Unfortunately from that point of view we are bowling first and Curran isn't on the money. I'm worried that we are loading our batting too heavily, to leave Stuart out is a risk, it could leave the selectors with a certain amount of egg on face...
if it came to a straight choice between Broad and Curran then I'd go with Curran every time. Broad's effectiveness as a bowler has been on the wane for some time now; previously he's been able to pull out a match winning spell when his place was under threat but he's not done that for a while now. Curran is the future and seems to have the ability to make something happen with the ball and score valuable lower middle order runs.
So far the ball hasn't swung and as always we look ineffective in overseas conditions without swing, even with a Dukes ball. Time for the spinners I think Joe.
It should be Woakes before either of them anyway.
It should be Woakes before either of them anyway.
Curran shouldn't be the one that's being debated, it's Rashid that shouldn't be in that team.
It should be Woakes before either of them anyway.
Curran shouldn't be the one that's being debated, it's Rashid that shouldn't be in that team.
You say that but I reckon this pitch will be spinning sideways by the end of day three.
Our openers don't get any better do they?
It’s pathetic.
Shades of New Zealand last winter, something has to change.
61-4. Not even two days in and 24 wickets have fallen.
Sam Curran absolutely is ready, he’s proven that. He’s just not a number one or two seamer.
There’s no chance that we will score the necessary runs to win this test.
Blimey we’re in for an absolute hammering here.
If I had shelled out a lot of money to go out there I'd be absolutely seething with that performance today and the preparation (or lack of it) that has gone into the tour. There has been something wrong in the set up fof some time now and it is almost as if they need to reach almost crisis point and receive the criticism that comes with it to find any kind of motivation.
If I had shelled out a lot of money to go out there I'd be absolutely seething with that performance today and the preparation (or lack of it) that has gone into the tour. There has been something wrong in the set up fof some time now and it is almost as if they need to reach almost crisis point and receive the criticism that comes with it to find any kind of motivation.
If I'd have shelled out a ton of money to go out there, I'd have binned the cricket by now and be chilling out on the beach. The Windies batting today is making our effort yesterday look even more feeble.
Root bowled more overs than Rashid, kinda sums up why he was such a poor selection for this match, Woakes or Broad instead would've given us much more threat. It wouldn't have made a difference because the first innings batting was abysmal but it'd have been nice to get 20 wickets.
Yep, good bit of fight finally.
Very annoying that everyone has seemed to get a start and then lose their concentration, other than Moeen who has been worryingly poor with the bat for a while now.
I like Mo, but at the moment there’s no way he’s a number 6.
I still have some annoyance from Bairstow giving it the big one after that century in SL. His form over the last year or so nowhere near warrants it.
We looked completely unprepared. Whoever thought that just two 2 day matches against part-timers was enough to prepare for a rapidly improving West Indies needs sacking.Joe Denly to be given a go ? I think Jennings will get Antigua but failures there could and should see a change.
Anyway, as Jennings has to go, who should we bring in as an opener now?
Broad will be in and depending on pitch it’ll be Curran or Leach.
Is Woakes injured otherwise I can't believe he's not in the squad tomorrow ?
Denly replaces Jennings
Presume Broad will play but not sure who for
Leach in for Rashid
Hopefully Woakes will be allowed to play for the Bears if England don't want him.
Really poor in both these games so far.
These are two of the worst displays I’ve ever seen by England. Truly diabolical.It's just like 1980s. Tony Greig will make them grovel era back on.
West Indies - really pleased for them and I hope they can use this as a platform.
Agree with everything that has been said about England, but full credit to the Windies a superb performance under the excellent captaincy of Jason Holder.
Another abject and frankly arrogant performance from an England team that I'm really struggling to like. They've underestimated their opponents to a level bordering on disrespect. They didn't prepare properly, they haven't applied themselves and they haven't learn from their mistakes. They've got exactly what they deserved.
This England team has far too many "all rounders" and that makes the top 6 a very poor international class line up. All rounders by it's very nature are adequate batsmen and adequate bowlers at international level. This is not what's required. The top 5 batsmen MUST be pure batters and absolutely world class. Currently not even Joe Root can be classed as that. Furthermore Root has proved to be a very poor captain. And next time please don't go to play another international team and treat it as preparation for Ashes series. This has happened too often and must stop. Due respect must be given.
I can't see how test standard batsmen can come out of the county game when 4 dayers are shoved into April May and September. The ECB are only really interested in domestic one day cricket which is why we now have such a strong ODI side but very limited options for test batsmen. The current Top 3 options of Burns Jennings Denly Bairstow are abysmal.
It seems to me that outside of the tests there are no warm up games that are meaningful & Lions tours don’t seem to have any intensity so why not instead have the Lions in West Indies also for the two weeks before 1st test and play 2x4 day games AvB?? Surely the intensity will be there from Lions to want to prove themselves and work over the established players??
You do wonder if the young batsmen today see test cricket as the ultimate or whether they are focussed on the flashy stuff to get IPL or BBL £? We at Worcester have had Joe Clarke over the last few years (before he left to play for a test ground county) & he seems to have gone on 4/5 Lions trips (until excluded for current one after selection for his links to the Hepburn case) yet has not been called up for the main squad once - is it too cosy? Are they challenged enough to be smashing the doors down to be selected?
Bairstow has put him self under a lot of pressure as well following the reaction in Sri Lanka.
I feel like our selection is very reactive at the moment. Assuming Bairstow drops down the order that’s another number 3 gone.
3 down for less than 100 again.
Really need Hameed to start the season well
3 down for less than 100 again.
A top three of Burns, Jennings and Denly doesn’t fill me with confidence.
Foakes dropped because the top of the order are crap.It's the cricket version of subbing the young right back when things are going pear shape.
Fuck sake, he took the shot as the post was saving.Saved by the Post.
It's a dead rubber in the series, so hard to measure really I suppose, but that is a much better day from England. David Lloyd made the point in commentary that the batting line up looks more balanced with Buttler at five, Stokes at six and Bairstow at seven.
Point just made in the studio that although Burns and Denly didn't make a lot of runs, they did a decent job sticking it out in the early stages.
Root is a concern, he’s a super bat but he’s been falling over the front pad for a while.
That went well then.
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Guys bowling swing in the low 80's mph are really useful in English conditions, but struggle away from home. I do think we need that extra bit of pace as an option when we play away from home.
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Guys bowling swing in the low 80's mph are really useful in English conditions, but struggle away from home. I do think we need that extra bit of pace as an option when we play away from home.
If Curran was low 80s I'd be less concerned, that's roughly where Anderson is and he's found a way to be effective all over the world, getting down to mid 70s is the problem. I'm just glad that the inevitable tough series has come now rather than during the ashes.
Curran was the real problem, and I don't think it's his fault. A bowler who gets extravagant swing at 75mph was always going to have a series where it just didn't go for him (I posted pretty much this when he broke through) for him to fulfil his potential and be the bowling all-rounder we really want he needs to get his pace up to 80-85 without losing the ability to swing both ways. It's the same challenge Woakes had.
Eithre way I agree that Wood and Stone should be a big part of the squad going forward and then once Jimmy and Broad drop out we'll need to look for another out and out quick (meaning 3 all rounders in Woakes, Stokes and Curran and 3 tail enders). From what I've seen I expect that new bowler will be Brookes who is quick but also gets extra bounce and gives a different threat.
Guys bowling swing in the low 80's mph are really useful in English conditions, but struggle away from home. I do think we need that extra bit of pace as an option when we play away from home.
If Curran was low 80s I'd be less concerned, that's roughly where Anderson is and he's found a way to be effective all over the world, getting down to mid 70s is the problem. I'm just glad that the inevitable tough series has come now rather than during the ashes.
I really don't worry about us too much at home Paul. I think even Anderson doesn't look anywhere near the same threat away from home. So done like Woakes bowls in the 80's, but again just doesn't really carry too much of a threat away.
Whilst Anderson isnt the same threat away from home, he is still a high class performer in most conditions.
The very minimum you will get from him away from home is excellent control.
Looking ahead how about this team for the WC :
Hales
Roy
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Stone
Root needs to prepare for the Ashes !
Nice to see a big Black Country Villa flag at the ground
Looking ahead how about this team for the WC :
Hales
Roy
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Stone
Root needs to prepare for the Ashes !
In a WC at home there is no chance that Root is going to be rested. He averages over 51 in that form of the game, and at present, he himself is probably a better limited over than test cricketer.
I think the fact he doesn't captain the ODI side is almost like a rest to him anyway.
Looking ahead how about this team for the WC :
Hales
Roy
Bairstow
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Stone
Root needs to prepare for the Ashes !
In a WC at home there is no chance that Root is going to be rested. He averages over 51 in that form of the game, and at present, he himself is probably a better limited over than test cricketer.
I think the fact he doesn't captain the ODI side is almost like a rest to him anyway.
Vaughan and Cook were on Five Live last night and both were saying that Root is a key part of the ODI side and is the glue which allows the others to go out and attack. He will almost certainly bat three in the World Cup and the opening partnership will be two of Bairstow, Roy or Hales.
A pleasing and comprehensive win but all the more mystifying that we didn't warm up properly prior to the tests. We cannot be so complacent against the Aussies, good job we are halfway through the championship campaign by the time it kicks off as we'd be undercooked again.
A paltry 361 needed to win :o
Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
It was but when you consider that it took Gayle 79 balls to get to his 50 then both innings are quite remarkable in their quality and dominance.
And the two’s he ignored.Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
It was but when you consider that it took Gayle 79 balls to get to his 50 then both innings are quite remarkable in their quality and dominance.
True but you need to balance it with the runs Gayle conceded due to his inept fielding.
And the two’s he ignored.Chris Gayle scored 100 in 100 balls.
Jason Roy scored 100 in 65 balls.
That is some phenomenal innings by Roy.
It was but when you consider that it took Gayle 79 balls to get to his 50 then both innings are quite remarkable in their quality and dominance.
True but you need to balance it with the runs Gayle conceded due to his inept fielding.
Why was Chris Woakes omitted? He did ok in the first game which England won. Surely a better option than Curran? Unless he's injured?
Morgan 93* (80)
Buttler 59* (47)
Buttler gone for 150 (from 77), probably the best ODI innings ever, absolutely spectacular.
Buttler gone for 150 (from 77), probably the best ODI innings ever, absolutely spectacular.
A marvellous innings but not the best ever. Viv Richards scored 189 off 170 balls v England at Old Trafford in 1984. The Windies were 98-6 and 166-9, he added 106 for the 10th wicket with Michael Holding. They scored 272-9.
Given how one day cricket was played back then I think his innings is easily the best.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16906/scorecard/64976/england-vs-west-indies-1st-odi-west-indies-tour-of-england-1984
Buttler gone for 150 (from 77), probably the best ODI innings ever, absolutely spectacular.
A marvellous innings but not the best ever. Viv Richards scored 189 off 170 balls v England at Old Trafford in 1984. The Windies were 98-6 and 166-9, he added 106 for the 10th wicket with Michael Holding. They scored 272-9.
Given how one day cricket was played back then I think his innings is easily the best.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16906/scorecard/64976/england-vs-west-indies-1st-odi-west-indies-tour-of-england-1984
Ok, but it's certainly in the discussion, 54 runs from 11 balls in the middle was spectacular though.
This pitch is looking very much like it's a good one for the big hitters.Pitch is placid and boundary is set about 30 yards in from the stadium wall. However most of the hits from Buttler/Gayle etc ended up in higher tier seats.
Rashid back in now Gayle has gone and will wrap this up.
Rashid back in now Gayle has gone and will wrap this up.
His airy fairy shit buffet bowling gets on my fucking tits.
We score 418 runs. We should be able to defend that and yet the odds are with the Windies. Fuck Stokes has just dropped a catch. Elbow ball.
We score 418 runs. We should be able to defend that and yet the odds are with the Windies. Fuck Stokes has just dropped a catch. Elbow ball.
I disagree. The game is so heavily weighted in favour of the batsmen that virtually any total is gettable.
We score 418 runs. We should be able to defend that and yet the odds are with the Windies. Fuck Stokes has just dropped a catch. Elbow ball.
I disagree. The game is so heavily weighted in favour of the batsmen that virtually any total is gettable.
Nah. I respectfully disagree. England are likely to win this now thanks to those three wickets in the one over, but let's be honest, our bowling has been terrible other than Wood and Plunkett, our fielding today has been very poor. Bloody hell, we win as I type.
Very true VFL, totally agree. I'm probably wrong about Rashid too to be fair. Taking five in a one dayer is great. I just think he's a very lucky bowler and the only reason he was on is because Morgan had no choice but to bring Wood on earlier to try to get a grip of the batters, and was therefore left with little option. That said, Rashid did the business by making the late order batters make rash shots and they paid the price.
Bowling against the tailenders!! Where is Rashid when it comes to getting the Gayle's out? Fair play for him getting a five for though, but Christ he does bowl some shit.
I presume that this is the highest scoring aggregate game in history?
Bowling against the tailenders!! Where is Rashid when it comes to getting the Gayle's out? Fair play for him getting a five for though, but Christ he does bowl some shit.
I presume that this is the highest scoring aggregate game in history?
Think the Aus SA game in Joburg still holds that record
Some amazing stats on that. 15 balls to go from 51 to a ton! And yet, only the third highest scoring game.
No ball for Gayle's wicket. Seems a bit harsh, especially as he chose to walk towards the ball.Bad rule. He stepped forward and tried to hit it for six and got caught the boundary. That’s out.☹️
No ball for Gayle's wicket. Seems a bit harsh, especially as he chose to walk towards the ball.Bad rule. He stepped forward and tried to hit it for six and got caught the boundary. That’s out.☹️
Good news that Archer looks likely to be called up pre-World Cup
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/47435883
A win is a win but it was lacklustre performance from England tonight. Without Buttler, Ali and Stokes the team is very ordinary and Root needs a rest.
Windies' fielding has been laughable, but well done Bairstow.
Is the next one not on telly? Can't see it on the Sky listings for Friday?
I’m never really understood why Jordan isn’t in the 50 mix, he’s a very fine white ball bowler.
This has annoyed me far more than it probably should have. I just think its a really bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/18/ashes-new-era-tests-names-numbers-shirts-cricket-england-australia#comments
This has annoyed me far more than it probably should have. I just think its a really bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/18/ashes-new-era-tests-names-numbers-shirts-cricket-england-australia#comments
This has annoyed me far more than it probably should have. I just think its a really bad idea.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/18/ashes-new-era-tests-names-numbers-shirts-cricket-england-australia#comments
I don't see anything wrong with this
They have names and numbers on the back of the white shirts in 4 day county cricket. It doesn’t spoil my enjoyment of that form of cricket.
Great to see Hameed get a hundred. Hopefully he can put his horror show of last year behind him.
What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Why I asked the question I guess - the Pietersen 2005 comparison is a good one but reality is Archer has only played 14 list A games and taken 21 wickets at 30. Hardly ripping up trees - but I do accept his T20 performances have been impressive. Sure he will get the Pakistan ODI’s to state his case.What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
The only real ingredient missing in the 50 over side at the moment is that 'x-factor' quick bowler. Not sure whether Archer is that just yet and whether this World Cup might have come just a bit too soon for him.
Why I asked the question I guess - the Pietersen 2005 comparison is a good one but reality is Archer has only played 14 list A games and taken 21 wickets at 30. Hardly ripping up trees - but I do accept his T20 performances have been impressive. Sure he will get the Pakistan ODI’s to state his case.What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
The only real ingredient missing in the 50 over side at the moment is that 'x-factor' quick bowler. Not sure whether Archer is that just yet and whether this World Cup might have come just a bit too soon for him.
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Woakes has tweeted to say that his comments have been taken out of context to make good copy.
What are the thoughts on Jofra Archer being picked for the World Cup squad ? I’m a bit torn - obviously a talent, and as I understand it whilst qualification rules have been changed recently they’ve only been brought into line with those applying elsewhere rather than fudged, however much of the success has been built on a strong team spirit and that’s got to be affected if one of the long-term members of the squad is suddenly binned on the eve of the tournament.
I’d have no hesitation in picking him.
The feedback from England players currently playing in the IPL is that he’s a special talent and you should select the best players that are available to you. Team spirit doesn’t win games or tournaments, picking the best players does.
We were in a similar position ahead of the 2005 Ashes series with the media calling for Pietersen to be selected. He was selected and his innings in the 5th test at the Oval meant that we regained the Ashes for the first time in years. Ultimately Pietersen became a toxic presence in the dressing room but at the time he was the right selection.
We will know tomorrow if Archer gets the gig or not, I think the squad is announced on Wednesday.
The only real ingredient missing in the 50 over side at the moment is that 'x-factor' quick bowler. Not sure whether Archer is that just yet and whether this World Cup might have come just a bit too soon for him.
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Woakes has tweeted to say that his comments have been taken out of context to make good copy.
Well he would say that wouldn't he. As an excuse it's right up there with 'I misspoke' and 'Those remarks don't reflect the person I am now.'
Woakes (and previously David Willey and Mark Wood) has let himself down there saying it wouldn't be morally fair to pick Archer.
Woakes has tweeted to say that his comments have been taken out of context to make good copy.
Well he would say that wouldn't he. As an excuse it's right up there with 'I misspoke' and 'Those remarks don't reflect the person I am now.'
Indeed, it does read a bit different in totality but he still said those words. Also it’s not a ‘moral’ thing.
It’ll be interesting to see how Archer does in the Pakistan series. If he does well he’ll be in.
My Ashes tickets arrived today, a pleasant surprise, I wasn’t expect them just yet.
Hales is an utter prat, kick him out of World Cup squad now - how can they trust him not to do it in the competition? Also, good chance for Giles to assert himself as a take no crap leader.
21 day ban is also a joke for a 2nd offence - doesn’t suggest ECB treat it seriously
Hales is an idiot. Why put your lucrative career at risk. What kind of hangers on does he mix with?
It’s pretty stupid behaviour from Hales and he knew the consequences when he took whatever recreational drug he used. The ECB appear to have acted badly but Giles has done the right thing in banning Hales.
They have stated aims of being both the best and most respected teams in the world and making an example of Hales fits in with that.
We know England have got the best chance of winning a World Cup, ever. And Alex Hales could be sat there watching his mates lift with the World Cup. And that's when this situation will really sink in
It's only when you come out of the other side of international cricket that you realise these are the best days of your life, so while you're there, it's important to make those sacrifices.
Yes, have a good time, but be sensible. The real good teams are the ones that live those words of team culture, and they're not just words on the wall.
Jofra Archer’s first ball in international cricket went for 4 runs.
Is Jofra Archer likely to be part of the test squad? Wouldn't be too shabby a replacement for Jimmy would he? Different types of bowlers but Jimmy can't go on for ever and I fancy the Ashes series will be his last for England.
Little to take from the game other than that Archer is ace.
Little to take from the game other than that Archer is ace.
He was superb today, and Plunkett struggled immediately afterwards, I think Archer getting the nod looks more likely today.
My prediction for the world cup right now:
Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Ali, Archer, Woakes, Rashid, Wood
Harsh on Willey who does give us something different but him, Foakes, Tom Curran and Denly or Vince would be the rest of the squad for me.
Little to take from the game other than that Archer is ace.
He was superb today, and Plunkett struggled immediately afterwards, I think Archer getting the nod looks more likely today.
My prediction for the world cup right now:
Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Ali, Archer, Woakes, Rashid, Wood
Harsh on Willey who does give us something different but him, Foakes, Tom Curran and Denly or Vince would be the rest of the squad for me.
I do wonder if Woakes and Wood will stay fit for the entire tournament. Wood is injury prone and I think that Woakes knee problem is much worse than we realise. We need both of them fit to be in with any chance of success.
And Archer must play and Jordan would be in my squad too as adequate cover for Wood or Woakes.
Good batting so far, should be looking at 350ish here which is decent but not impossible to chase. Buttler and Morgan are batting beautifully.
They got much closer to out target than I though they would so a good game in the end.
I think they need to rethink the different ball at each end rule, it’s giving the batsmen too much of an advantage.
They got much closer to out target than I though they would so a good game in the end.
I think they need to rethink the different ball at each end rule, it’s giving the batsmen too much of an advantage.
Agree in principal, but one of the issues with the ball in one dayers, was that teams would deliberately do all they could to soften it. By the 30th over or so it was generally closer to a tennis ball and harder to hit.
They got much closer to out target than I though they would so a good game in the end.
I think they need to rethink the different ball at each end rule, it’s giving the batsmen too much of an advantage.
Agree in principal, but one of the issues with the ball in one dayers, was that teams would deliberately do all they could to soften it. By the 30th over or so it was generally closer to a tennis ball and harder to hit.
That’s a form of ball tampering then isn’t it? Keep one ball and let the umpire inspect it after every over. Cricket has the advantage that most, if not all, umpires have played the game at the highest level so they know all of the tricks that fielding sides use.
The white ball game is dominated by big hitters. It’s marvellous to see, especially when it’s one of your players flaying the ball to all parts, but something has to be done to redress the balance between bat and ball.
I agree with most of that as well but I'm not sure limits on bats are a good idea.
I like the 2 balls rule. The one I'd change is leg side wides.
I like the 2 balls rule. The one I'd change is leg side wides.
I'd agree with that.
The principle of a wide is a "delivery the batsman cannot play a proper cricket shot too".
Unless its down the leg side by a margin, that isn't true of a leg side delivery.
Sounds like Archer won’t play tomorrow. I reckon that suggests they’ve already made the decision he’s in the squad and the others are fighting it out.
and Woakes has a 4th, Pakistan seem to have really struggled with his pace, a lot of early and late shots, he's really unlucky to have gone for 67 from his 10, about 20 of those are from complete mishits.
Plunkett was just done for a wide (on height) but I'm convinced the batsman gloved it.
England surely going to lose overs for their reply.
Long way over the cut off point.
An excellent start by Bairstow and Roy, 137-0 off 15. Whilst it’s a small ground, Bairstow’s swept six was a beautiful shot and Roy hit one back over the bowlers head and onto a second floor balcony of a flat just beyond the boundary.
The slight problem we have is we’re batting so well in these warm up games that the likes of Stokes and Ali are just getting no batting.
The slight problem we have is we’re batting so well in these warm up games that the likes of Stokes and Ali are just getting no batting.
All done, Stokes and Ali got good time in the middle and we had 5 overs spare, great batting performance.England batting has been just awesome absolutely awesome. However I know Pakistan are no slouches but the bowling is worrying. Conceding 361 and 358 in two matches is not clever.
All done, Stokes and Ali got good time in the middle and we had 5 overs spare, great batting performance.England batting has been just awesome absolutely awesome. However I know Pakistan are no slouches but the bowling is worrying. Conceding 361 and 358 in two matches is not clever.
All done, Stokes and Ali got good time in the middle and we had 5 overs spare, great batting performance.England batting has been just awesome absolutely awesome. However I know Pakistan are no slouches but the bowling is worrying. Conceding 361 and 358 in two matches is not clever.
Andy Zaltzmann had some stats (can't remember if it was during yesterday's game or the previous one) about England having the best run rate since the last WC of the 2019 WC teams but also having the second worst runs conceded rate.
I know that this has a lot to do with playing on high scoring wickets in the UK but it's still a concerning trend
It's a concern because at the moment England need to score above 350 to win a match. It's going to let them down in a crucial world cup match. In football its equivalent to winning games 3-2 or 4-3.
It's a concern because at the moment England need to score above 350 to win a match. It's going to let them down in a crucial world cup match. In football its equivalent to winning games 3-2 or 4-3.
Agree. There are going to be games when the batting line up fails to fire up properly and we are left defending a smallish score. Happened in the semi final of the ICC Champions Trophy a couple of years ago and we never looked anywhere near capable of defending that score.
Archer and Wood (if hes the Wood we say in the Windies) will make a massive difference to this attack.
Here comes the collapse. We’re already well into it, so let’s see if we can buck our trend for occasional shockers.
Turned out to be very useful exercise.
BairstowWill be one of Denly or Dawson for either Plunkett Willey or Curran. Harsh on whoever misses out.
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Archer
Wiley
Rashid
Very strong batting all the way down plus 7 bowlers offering variety
Vince
Wood
Curran
Plunkett
Bairstow
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Archer
Wiley
Rashid
Very strong batting all the way down plus 7 bowlers offering variety
Vince
Wood
Curran
Plunkett
400 lol...we are getting greedy now. 300+ is a very good score.
400 lol...we are getting greedy now. 300+ is a very good score.
Bairstow
Roy
Root
Morgan
Stokes
Buttler
Ali
Woakes
Archer
Wiley
Rashid
Very strong batting all the way down plus 7 bowlers offering variety
Vince
Wood
Curran
Plunkett
I think Wood has to be in the starting 11. For me him and Archer should definitely be the opening bowlers. We need that pace and wicket taking ability, and whilst the white ball just isn't swinging, Willey doesn't offer that.
Not sure Plunkett has done enough to justify a place in the squad. Probably Dawson comes in for him.
Willey and Denly out.
Vince, Archer and Dawson in
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/48347499
England squad
Eoin Morgan (capt, Middlesex), Moeen Ali (Worcestershire), Jofra Archer (Sussex), Jonny Bairstow (wk, Yorkshire), Jos Buttler (wk, Lancashire), Tom Curran (Surrey), Liam Dawson (Hampshire), Liam Plunkett (Surrey), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Jason Roy (Surrey), Ben Stokes (Durham), James Vince (Hampshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
Plunkett has taken wickets in middle overs, which is a gap without him. Willey has lost out because the balls this year
just haven’t swung.
On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Yes agreed. Caught a glimpse yesterday and immediately thought yuk! England normally have the classiest kit in world cricket.On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Neither do I, I prefer both of last year’s white ball kits.
Can see the logic of going with Dawson. Very harsh on David Willey, but I just think Archer has that 'x-factor' with the ball that we have been missing and tough decisions have to be made at elite levels of sport. Would have maybe gone for Willey over Plunkett though.Agree with your post Tom specially about Archer. Willey is ok but Archer is a potentially world class and needs to be developed. I hope he has a good world cup and than make the Ashes team.
It’s a grower. Ordered one for my Mrs this morning as she wants to wear it to the Oval next Thursday.Yes agreed. Caught a glimpse yesterday and immediately thought yuk! England normally have the classiest kit in world cricket.On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Neither do I, I prefer both of last year’s white ball kits.
It’s a grower. Ordered one for my Mrs this morning as she wants to wear it to the Oval next Thursday.Yes agreed. Caught a glimpse yesterday and immediately thought yuk! England normally have the classiest kit in world cricket.On first look I don’t like the England kit for the World Cup.
Neither do I, I prefer both of last year’s white ball kits.
Morgan needs scan on finger, I really hope it's not a serious injury.
Missed the first innings cos didn't realise it was on until I noticed some posts on here. Sounds like Archer wasn't able to bowl and we still kept them down to a score we would usually chase down. Not a disaster. And they only won because of a century from a cheating convict bastard anyway.
I don’t know why, but I’ve got barely any confidence in us winning the World Cup.
Is there anything in the pitch that says c.310 is an acceptable score here? On the face of it we’re not rocketing along.
Keep losing wickets at the wrong time. Think 320-330 is about a par score
defending 311 then, as above I reckon that's just about par, now we need to take early wickets and then let the pressure build on them.
defending 311 then, as above I reckon that's just about par, now we need to take early wickets and then let the pressure build on them.
Good test for the bowling attack in the very first game. Bowl well and we should win, bowl poorly and there is a chance they will chase that score down.
defending 311 then, as above I reckon that's just about par, now we need to take early wickets and then let the pressure build on them.
Good test for the bowling attack in the very first game. Bowl well and we should win, bowl poorly and there is a chance they will chase that score down.
Rashid and Ali will be massively important, it has spun from the first over.
Brutal delivery from Archer there to Amla. 145kph bouncer straight into the grille, having to change his helmet and looked a bit shaken by it.
Brutal delivery from Archer there to Amla. 145kph bouncer straight into the grille, having to change his helmet and looked a bit shaken by it.
Yes and he's retired hurt.
Have seen enough from Archer, that he would be guarenteed a place in the ashes side
West Indies will do very well in this WC based on their performance today and against England in the Caribbean earlier in the year.
Pakistan’s M.O is to start appallingly, so interesting to see how they respond.
Real soft spot for Bangladesh, they were great today
Fielding has been well ropey today
Fielding has been well ropey today
I don't really follow cricket. Does that mean the ball has hit the ropey thing that surrounds the pitch a lot today?
Real soft spot for Bangladesh, they were great todayYes they were. I would love to see them get through and beat either India or Australia in the semi and then gallantly lose against England in the final.
Obviously there are problems to look at, but when Pakistan have to put on their best performance in ages to beat you and you still have two centurions in the innings then your problems aren't necessarily fundamental. Obviously, must improve massively in the field, but it's not all doom and gloom.I would disagree. England have been only winning matches by putting out their number 1 batting game. The 4-0 against Pakistan in the warm up series whilst looked good should have been a warning that having to win games by scoring over 300 is going to not work one day. The defeat against Australia was also worrying. The match today could have been the semi final or the final itself. England MUST improve bowling and fielding to restrict teams to circa 280 or below if they are to win WC. I do not agree with those who say that par score these days is 330/340. Anything above 300 is risky if you are chasing.
Obviously there are problems to look at, but when Pakistan have to put on their best performance in ages to beat you and you still have two centurions in the innings then your problems aren't necessarily fundamental. Obviously, must improve massively in the field, but it's not all doom and gloom.I would disagree. England have been only winning matches by putting out their number 1 batting game. The 4-0 against Pakistan in the warm up series whilst looked good should have been a warning that having to win games by scoring over 300 is going to not work one day. The defeat against Australia was also worrying. The match today could have been the semi final or the final itself. England MUST improve bowling and fielding to restrict teams to circa 280 or below if they are to win WC. I do not agree with those who say that par score these days is 330/340. Anything above 300 is risky if you are chasing.
Afghanistan have Leedsed this.
Windies bowlers are pummelling the Aussies
Blimey I know Mo’s form with the bat is bad, but Plunkett in for him does leave a long(albeit useful) tail.
Hope Buttler’s injury is only minor, he’s clearly suffering a bit.
I'm off to watch and support Sri Lanka on Saturday, at The Oval.It will be nice to see Aussies take 3 beatings this week starting with India today, Pakistan on Wednesday and hopefully with your support on Saturday against Sri Lanka.
They’ve got to do something about these bails/stumps, it’s bloody ridiculous.
I'm off to watch and support Sri Lanka on Saturday, at The Oval.It will be nice to see Aussies take 3 beatings this week starting with India today, Pakistan on Wednesday and hopefully with your support on Saturday against Sri Lanka.
The rain is killing this World Cup at the moment.
The rain is killing this World Cup at the moment.
It is. I know its been a few days of persistant rain, but to not have back up days for the matches is a big mistake.
The rain is killing this World Cup at the moment.
It is. I know its been a few days of persistant rain, but to not have back up days for the matches is a big mistake.
I think that reserve days would be a logistical nightmare.
It would be possible if the format was two groups then a reserve day could be scheduled but in a round robin tournament it would be very difficult.
There are reserve days for the semis and final but not for the group stage.
Bollocks. Gayle dropped. Big moment which I hope we don’t pay dearly for
Roy’s injury means that he won’t field for the remainder of the innings so can’t open and will come in at 7.
So do we bump everyone up a place in the batting line up or have Buttler open with Bairstow?
So do we bump everyone up a place in the batting line up or have Buttler open with Bairstow?
Woakes at 3, that's bold.
That was much easier than I anticipated.
When the Windies are good then they’re brilliant, when they’re bad then they’re truly awful. Their body language in the field was poor and they seemed to give up very quickly. Even Jason Holder looked flat. They looked like they didn’t want to be there.
I watch us a lot home and away and was worried today was going to be a real tough one especially having suffered one defeat already - but that was impressive - I accept the toss helped but had to say to my missus when Joe was going that we’re quite good at this game !
A little bit of a dilemma now with 2 “lesser” games coming up whether to rest Roy and Morgan but need to avoid cock ups.
I agree. Can’t see Dawson getting too much action at the moment and wouldn’t want Vince to be thrown into a knockout game with no cricket for a month. Overall I'm pretty confident though that we can win this thing!I watch us a lot home and away and was worried today was going to be a real tough one especially having suffered one defeat already - but that was impressive - I accept the toss helped but had to say to my missus when Joe was going that we’re quite good at this game !
A little bit of a dilemma now with 2 “lesser” games coming up whether to rest Roy and Morgan but need to avoid cock ups.
I'd give them 1 game each I think and let Vince get a couple of matches.
I agree. Can’t see Dawson getting too much action at the moment and wouldn’t want Vince to be thrown into a knockout game with no cricket for a month. Overall I'm pretty confident though that we can win this thing!I watch us a lot home and away and was worried today was going to be a real tough one especially having suffered one defeat already - but that was impressive - I accept the toss helped but had to say to my missus when Joe was going that we’re quite good at this game !
A little bit of a dilemma now with 2 “lesser” games coming up whether to rest Roy and Morgan but need to avoid cock ups.
I'd give them 1 game each I think and let Vince get a couple of matches.
As I said, really good performance in what could have been a tough game. Those injuries just need to heal.Today England exercised proper control in a match. This is the best result so far.
Mon Sri Lanka. I've always liked that cheating no ball bastard Malinga, honest.I have never ever understood why he is allowed to do what he does? Whatever it is it's not legal and not bowling.
Except that it is and it is.Mon Sri Lanka. I've always liked that cheating no ball bastard Malinga, honest.I have never ever understood why he is allowed to do what he does? Whatever it is it's not legal and not bowling.
He's a chucker.
He's a chucker.
His elbow's not over-flexed and his arm is above the horizontal.
How's that chucking ?
Needs to bowl either overarm or underarm not chuck it like a stone. Should have been chucked out of the game a long time ago.He's a chucker.
His elbow's not over-flexed and his arm is above the horizontal.
How's that chucking ?
Crowd at India Pakistan game are pretty vocal even at the toss. 100,000 ticket applications were made for this game.This from the BBC:
I can't remember Pakistan ever not being shit at fielding.It's embedded historically in the team culture. They have dropped 8 catches so far in this WC matched by no one else but....shockingly England.
Looking like the PM was right, so far...Yes he was and Sarfraz has messed up his decision making in every match so far. However PM has really lit the fire by referring to his players as "Raillu Kattas". Loosely translated as aimless wandering buffalo calf and is used offensively to describe a wasteful young man.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1140150828277387264
Looking like the PM was right, so far...Yes he was and Sarfraz has messed up his decision making in every match so far. However PM has really lit the fire by referring to his players as "Raillu Kattas". Loosely translated as aimless wandering buffalo calf and is used offensively to describe a wasteful young man.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1140150828277387264
Looking like the PM was right, so far...Yes he was and Sarfraz has messed up his decision making in every match so far. However PM has really lit the fire by referring to his players as "Raillu Kattas". Loosely translated as aimless wandering buffalo calf and is used offensively to describe a wasteful young man.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1140150828277387264
A commentator earlier, sorry can’t remember which one, said that PM IK had spoken to the team pre-WC and said that pace bowling and taking wickets was key to success in England. They ignored him and went for spinners and just trying to stop runs.
Coaches and captain might want to take a long vacation before returning home.
Slow going at the moment.this was very true at the time and you'd have looked at the score then and thought 300-320 was a good score, getting near to 400 from there is insane.
Violent hitting by Morgan.
One of these days a top order batsman will bat for most of the overs and score 200 plus and his team score nearly 500.
As long as (a) he’s English and (b) we do it against the Crims in the final.
Violent hitting by Morgan.
One of these days a top order batsman will bat for most of the overs and score 200 plus and his team score nearly 500.
As long as (a) he’s English and (b) we do it against the Crims in the final.
Imagine if it had been Buttler at his best at the other end for 20 overs.
That was a nasty bouncer, batsman hopefully is ok.
That was a nasty bouncer, batsman hopefully is ok.
brilliant delivery to be fair but yes, nasty contact, it shows why helmets are so important though. Thankfully he looks shaken but ok to carry on. I wouldn't want Wood to change his bowling though, he's got them really rattled here.
Bit disappointing that we are just going through the motions in the field.
Game is of course well won, but we shouldn't have let our intensity drop like this.
Root is clearly struggling with his back, not sure why he’s fielding.
That's the easy games out of the way. New Zealand, India, Australia and Sri Lanka to come. Good to build up a head of steam.
Sri Lanka finish on 232-9 off the 50 overs, England should cruise it.
Basically that’s two close games we’ve been involved in in this World Cup and we’ve lost both. Stupid batting from far too many and now we’re pretty much at knockout cricket.
We need to be a hell of a lot better.
Out solution to every problem seems to be hit your way out of it.India struggled and won the game England lost both games where they were challenged. Not good.
India struggled today, could be an even bigger upset.
Out solution to every problem seems to be hit your way out of it.India struggled and won the game England lost both games where they were challenged. Not good.
India struggled today, could be an even bigger upset.
Looks like Roy could easily be back for Tuesday. Massive if so. Vince is talented, but hes more of a: gorgeous boundary, gorgeous boundary, nick behind sort of guy.
It's clearly not been a great innings so far but I don't think it's been awful, we could do with some more wickets but we've not let them really get going, every time they've tried to put their foot down we've had an over or 2 to slow it down again. They have the wickets in hand to be able to go really aggressive but at least they're not doing it with a massive score already up.
It's clearly not been a great innings so far but I don't think it's been awful, we could do with some more wickets but we've not let them really get going, every time they've tried to put their foot down we've had an over or 2 to slow it down again. They have the wickets in hand to be able to go really aggressive but at least they're not doing it with a massive score already up.
Don't like quoting myself but as I said what we did well was make scoring difficult so they've been playing catch-up in the last 20 and it's seen them giving wickets away cheaply. When Khawaja and then Finch went they'd have had in their mind that they need to score at 9-10 an over for the rest of the innings and, with new batsmen at both ends, it's created the pressure that's led to the wickets.
Stokes and Bairstow need to get the vast majority of the runs if we’re going to get anywhere near. Starting on this pitch is a nightmare.
Well done Buttler, that’s the game.
Cant deal with those. Well played Ben, youve been let down by your team mates again.
Gutless performance Stokes aside.
Bowled really poorly for the first half of their innings, and in turn showed the Aussies precisely the length to bowl.
Then poor shots from the middle order when we couldn't afford to lose a wicket.
Feel this slump is irreversable now. We have been paralysed by the pressure and its only going to get worse
I think losing Roy and not having Hales as a backup option has fucked us a lot more than might have been expected. Roy going out strong from the start and getting us a solid start has played a huge part in us being the team we've seen for the last couple of years. Not having that explosive start has totally changed the team dynamic and we look lost. I can take the Pakistan defeat, that was the sort of game that will happen sometimes but the last 2 games we've been awful with the bat with key batsmen playing stupid shots when they just needed to be sensible, the Bairstow one today was a particularly awful shot, trying to hit one that far outside off for a leg side 6 was just rank decision making given the match situation. Morgan was really disappointing as well, you'd expect better from him.
I tell you what this pitch absolutely terrifies me when I consider us playing India.
It will be. I’ve seen various interviews with England players saying they won’t take a backward step, they’re still a good side and the last two games don’t change that. Ok, then go out and prove it in the remaining games, the talk means nothing.
It will be. I’ve seen various interviews with England players saying they won’t take a backward step, they’re still a good side and the last two games don’t change that. Ok, then go out and prove it in the remaining games, the talk means nothing.
Paul Farbrace was on The Debate after the Australia game and was saying the same. Didn't criticise any of the players and was saying things like "if it had gone ten more yards it would have been six and not caught on the boundary".
The fact is that we have poorly managed two achievable run chases because we seem unable to adapt to circumstances and conditions.
Surely India will chuck the England game to shaft Pakistan?But would India want to play England in the semi final😉
Afghanistan bowling well here but still reckon Pakistan will nick it
A big opening partnership will test India's resolve today. They are assured qualification and I am not sure if they will have the stomach for a fight today?
I thought that was a fine shot.
Lots of dots, which we need to watch.
Bumrah is fucking tricky.
In fairness, now an exquisite straight drive from Roy which Ted Dexter* would have been proud of.Although I never saw Dexter bat but having read a lot about him I would never associate Roy's batting with his. Nevertheless a great compliment.
* Ask your Dad
Where's this "Birmingham End" come from? It's the City End. The whole ground is in Birmingham so how can you have one end called that?I am against this Birmingham end name. I think it should be renamed after one of the Bear greats Ian Bell;)
Nonsense.
The Ian End ?No you've got hold of the wrong End.
I’m very nervous, two in batsmen and a lot of wickets left. We need wickets and some tight overs.It's not even close paul. What are you like watching the Villa? :)
India are just nudging singles.
Dhoni’s performance was weird, I didn’t get what his goal was.
Plunkett has to start for me as well. The other spot is between Wood and Mo.
Plunkett has to start for me as well. The other spot is between Wood and Mo.
Plunkett has to start for me as well. The other spot is between Wood and Mo.
Can't see us straying from that line up today now Paul. Really interesting to hear Brendon McCullum's insights on the Debate show earlier. Said he was a fan of Plunkett, but felt he had always been shifted around and asked to carry out different roles. He said the current role he has in the side suits him perfectly as he tends to bowl when the fielding restrictions are over.
His thoughts on Rashid were interesting as well. After Bob Willis had slagged Rashid off, he said that he would always have a leg spinner who can turn the ball both ways in the side, mainly to bowl at the lower order. He was saying that a leg spinner is a key part of an attacking side. Made Bob look a bit foolish to be honest.
Leave our Bob alone. We need Victor Meldrew in the punditry line up.
Off to Edgbaston now. Hoping for a good match and.......... COME ON Bangladesh.
I was thinking purely as a cricket fan there😊Off to Edgbaston now. Hoping for a good match and.......... COME ON Bangladesh.
I’d rather India win, that gives some potential contingency if England balls it up tomorrow.
tom2103 agreed. Even Kohli struggled with defending the lopsided boundary at Edgbaston on Sunday and if ever a batting skipper is gifted with left/right combo in his batting line he should maximise that. I have been a fielding captain in situations like that and whilst you start off well switching your fielders around after a while you are muddled up, not necessarily with your primary position but secondary fielders.
Whilst I agree with that in principle, Buttler is a freak player and I’d view him as an exception to normal thinking. If we lose a wicket around the 30 over mark he should always be coming in.
😊I learned after awhile why the club secretary (usually a senior player) always registered Bob Jones and Raj Patel names at the start of the season. When I said yes I found someone To make up 11 this weekend Bob or Raj came in handy.tom2103 agreed. Even Kohli struggled with defending the lopsided boundary at Edgbaston on Sunday and if ever a batting skipper is gifted with left/right combo in his batting line he should maximise that. I have been a fielding captain in situations like that and whilst you start off well switching your fielders around after a while you are muddled up, not necessarily with your primary position but secondary fielders.
It is a nightmare mate! On top of that you have to try and keep track of how many overs each bowler has bowled and working out how many overs their potential replacement has got left.
That's after spending all week to cobble a side together and having to make some frantic last minute calls as someone has phoned that morning to say they can't make it!!
Just placed some serious money on England. Batting first and Lockie Ferguson our I see nothing but pain for Kiwis.
Just placed some serious money on England. Batting first and Lockie Ferguson our I see nothing but pain for Kiwis.
I have only dipped into bits of England games so far and not really followed the tournament. Am I right in saying if we win we are in the semis?
Good start.
Pitch looks an absolute belter though.
Yep, I'd say that, so far, this looks like a 350-400 pitch for the first innings. If we get that I think it'll be very hard to chase.Yes but...so far teams have not followed 30/20 rule. That is doubling the 30 over score in the last 20. Generally teams who have come flying out of the trap have slowed down is later overs. Let's see if England can buck that trend today?
Yep, I'd say that, so far, this looks like a 350-400 pitch for the first innings. If we get that I think it'll be very hard to chase.Yes but...so far teams have not followed 30/20 rule. That is doubling the 30 over score in the last 20. Generally teams who have come flying out of the trap have slowed down is later overs. Let's see if England can buck that trend today?
Buttler has been completely underwhelming all tournament, well overhyped.
Morgan should have given way to Ben Stokes with ok 16 overs to go. Am I being harsh by calling him selfish? Given that Stokes is in blinding form? Also, hyper critical but Bairstow often gets out just after getting a ton. Go bigger young man!!
That should have been 340+ all day long. Reckon the Kiwis will knock that off with ease.
England Ladies have thrown this away. Big uphill task to win The Ashes back now.
Are Bangladesh the first team to ever wear an away kit?
It’ll be a tough game either way, but think I’d rather have the Aussies in the semi-final.
Can someone tell New Zealand that the match has started, please?
Are the semi-finals able to run into a second day in the event of bad weather, and under what circumstances?This from BBC about today’s game explains:
Even if we get knocked out, if like New Zealand to go through. Be nice for someone new to win it. Fed up of Australia and India.Absolutely
India need the Dhoni of past to show up here, not the Dhoni of this tournament.
Today was triumph of pure hard work and effort overcoming avarice and arrogance. Well done New Zealand.
Need to hope the pitch isn't one of the turgid pieces of shit that we've seen throughout the tournament.
They do. They’ve still got plenty of batting and I wouldn’t want us chasing over 200!
Carey and Smith are very good.
Poor start from Wood here. Brilliant fielding is keeping the score in this over down.
They’re right back in this now.
...and just as I type that, out!
Whatever the score this chase will be tough.
We all know Australia will win this either way. I can't decide if I'd rather they batted us out of sight and we never get close, or if we lose by the odd run chasing a measly total. Of course being England, they'll probably do it the third way and be bowled out for less than 100.
Its only the pressure of a WC semi final chase that can really stop us getting a target that is well below par.
Woakes and Archers opening spell was as good as any I've ever seen from an England ODI side. The early wickets made Australia bat cautiously on a good pitch. I think the pitches true nature was shown in the Smith/Carey partnership.
Not so much the players who are disliked. Kohli is my favourite cricketer at the moment. It’s the Indian cricket board and their attitude of disdain towards rest of the world that pisses me off.Today was triumph of pure hard work and effort overcoming avarice and arrogance. Well done New Zealand.
What do people find so dislikeable about the Indian team ?
Jadeja is a joy to watch in all aspects of the game. I'll concede that Kohli is arrogant but he's regarded as one of the hardest workers in the sport (this was discussed on TMS yesterday)
Be interesting to see how England approach this now. It's a funny score to chase that's neither truly shit or overly massive. Hopefully Roy gets an easy ton, and we wrap it up in 40 overs.
Be interesting to see how England approach this now. It's a funny score to chase that's neither truly shit or overly massive. Hopefully Roy gets an easy ton, and we wrap it up in 40 overs.It’s not truly but it’s near enough shit. I wouldn’t want Roy and Bairstow to change their approach as there are no demons in the pitch.
It’s not the usual mix of England fans at Edgbaston today. Majority is Brit Indians who have simply swapped their tops and bought a St George’s flag. Let’s hope it stays that way😉
Wasted review there but hopefully it won’t affect us too much.
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Sir Garfield Sobers, Sir Curtly Ambrose, Plus others I cant remember.
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Bob Geldof got one. What about West Indians and South Africans?
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Terry Wogan
Spork Mulligoon
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Terry Wogan
Spork Mulligoon
Not wishing to get ahead of ourselves, but are Irish people allowed to be knighted?
Terry Wogan
Spork Mulligoon
I think they can if they were born before Irish independence, so Wogan is a Sir but Geldof just an honorary one.
So England could end up as World Champions in 50 over cricket tomorrow yet next season there won’t be a first class 50 over competition in this country. ECB you should hang your heads in shame.Amazingly bizarre situation.
Why are they late starting? Get on with it!
Why are they late starting? Get on with it!
Early morning rain delayed the start
Bollocks review overturned.
Well done Woakesy
Is this a World Cup final?? Zero atmosphere.
Is this a World Cup final?? Zero atmosphere.
It's a shame isn't it? The poshness of Lords does tend to spoil things. So pricey and stuck up.
I'm trying to watch this on All4 via my PS4 but the link just takes me to the semi-final coverage. There doesn't appear to be a way to access the final itself. Anyone else experiencing this?
Also, when I try All4 on my PC it repeatedly says flash player not installed. I've installed it, allowed it to run on that page, refreshed but keep getting the same message.
tearing my hair out here. Any advice will be gratefully received.
Is this a World Cup final?? Zero atmosphere.
Sorry what is All4?
Sorry what is All4?
4.28 run rate at the moment. That's absolutely fine. NZ are going to have to take some risks. 77 for 1 from 18. That's a good start from England.
4.28 run rate at the moment. That's absolutely fine. NZ are going to have to take some risks. 77 for 1 from 18. That's a good start from England.
I’m not so sure. We don’t look at all threatening with the ball and it’s all a bit flat. Most of our bowlers seem to be having a collective off day.
4.28 run rate at the moment. That's absolutely fine. NZ are going to have to take some risks. 77 for 1 from 18. That's a good start from England.
I’m not so sure. We don’t look at all threatening with the ball and it’s all a bit flat. Most of our bowlers seem to be having a collective off day.
We are a bit inconsistent to be fair. I'm often critical of our bowling as we don't seem to have a plan and I think Morgan should be telling the bowlers to use Woakes's performance as a yardstick. Rashid drives me fucking mad with his floaty shit.
Dharmascena gets one wrong again!lol...he's had a terrible world cup.
Dharmascena gets one wrong again!lol...he's had a terrible world cup.
I have a feeling NZ will bowl better here, particularly Boult. We don’t want to chase too many.However conditions will be different later on.
That's poor really. Having the technology available and letting a howler like that stand. It's a World Cup final ffs.
Looking back through this thread (and any cricket threads on here really) you can see Villa fan pessimism in all it's glory.
For me, as with Australia in the semi, they had a good spell art the change bowlers but the slow start meant they never got ahead of the rate (teams know that they need 250+ runs on the board against us) so they needed to keep accelerating and that translates to scoreboard pressure which means wickets in the 20-40 over spells.
I haven't watched this many adverts for about 15 years.
Suicide by Latham
Poor from Woods there. Dot balls much more important than wickets at the moment.
Let's attack from the off and try to get the game wrapped up in the first fifteen overs, like we did against the Crims.
Why wasn't that given out ?
Why wasn't that given out ?
It was an umpire’s call.
There was millimetres in that. Very very lucky.
Boullt looks like Stewart Downing.
Boullt looks like Stewart Downing.
Beat me to it Newby.
There was millimetres in that. Very very lucky.
I reckon, when that much of the ball is hitting the stumps, the third Umpire should over-rule. Perhaps a rule to bring in after the Final though!
I wish Ian Smith wasn't so biased with his commentary, they are supposed to be neutral.I don't mind him actually. He's not like Ian Chappell, who thinks all non-Australians are shite, he's just so enthusiastic and desperately wants his team to win, which is fair enough for me.
Boullt looks like Stewart Downing.
Beat me to it Newby.
He really does doesn't he. Poor bloke!!
Yeah, we've been pretty fortunate so far.
And that’s why Roy would struggle as a Test match opener.
Yes but lack of footwork was obvious.And that’s why Roy would struggle as a Test match opener.
I’m not sure that there was much he could have done about that ball.
Yes but lack of footwork was obvious.And that’s why Roy would struggle as a Test match opener.
I’m not sure that there was much he could have done about that ball.
Bairstow dropped.
Empty seats ma Lord.
Bairstow dropped.
It was Root. Should have been taken. Simple caught and bowled change for CDG
Commentator: "fantastic crowd" really ? No fucking atmosphere whatsoever.
A Captain's innings needed. If he wants an OBE for winning the World Cup, he has to earn it.
A Captain's innings needed. If he wants an OBE for winning the World Cup, he has to earn it.
He can't have an OBE, we've been through this! A KBE, maybe.
I’m staggered by Root’s idiocy there. Such an appalling effort.
Suns out now.
Lords never seems to produce anything but a pitch that does plenty. Dire atmosphere, pitch that helps the opposition. Might as well be in Eden Gardens.
One wicket from defeat? Let's not be too dramatic chaps.I think we need these 2 to hang around a bit.
Who said NZ had no chance? Commentators talking utter bollocks.It’s that kiwi twat
If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
Oh no!! Bairstow out. Are we going to bottle it?
I'm getting a bit sick of this anti-England commentary too.
Game overNo but I am slightly concerned.
If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
We should have produced an absolute road. Instead its greener than fucking Wembley.
3 down. Fuckig shite. Fuck Lords.
That’s how it should be as it’s an international tournament not home test match series.If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
We should have produced an absolute road. Instead its greener than fucking Wembley.
3 down. Fuckig shite. Fuck Lords.
England don't have anything to do with the pitches in the world cup. It's controlled by 1CC
Game over, I predict we won't even get 200. I'm off to the pool, bugger this.You will regret it if you do.😊
If we lose this we should never play at Lord's again. Boost the capacity of Edgbaston and have that as the new national stadium.
We should do this if we win this, too.
We should have produced an absolute road. Instead its greener than fucking Wembley.
3 down. Fuckig shite. Fuck Lords.
England don't have anything to do with the pitches in the world cup. It's controlled by 1CC
That was pathetic from Morgan.
I'm amazed the win predictor is still in England's favour.
Game over, I predict we won't even get 200. I'm off to the pool, bugger this.You will regret it if you do.😊
Not sure what you are on about? What can be better than hiding behind the sofa and locking yourself in the loo every 5 minutes :-[Game over, I predict we won't even get 200. I'm off to the pool, bugger this.You will regret it if you do.😊
I’m watching the kids play, I have an ice cold beer and it’s 30c. I bet you regret it more than me!
Not only did the Indian supporters believe they would win the World Cup, the sompanys targeting the Indian market did as well.And all hospitality balconies full of saffron.
Every advert on Willow is aimed at Indians some even in a Hindi.
I realise people pop for a drink now and again but there are way too many empty seats there.
That's about right. I (allegedly) met a BCCI official at Edgbaston and he was openly boosting about all sorts of demands ICC have to accommodate from his Board. A very arrogant man he was as well.I realise people pop for a drink now and again but there are way too many empty seats there.
Well the ICC are in the BCCI’s pockets and allowed Indian fans to buy something like 40% of available tickets. When India went out a lot of their fans must have made a decision not to attend the final, even as a neutral.
A quiet and thoughtful crowd apparently at Lords.
This is torture.
This is torture.
Just logged on to check the score. How is it torture? We're clearly not going to score 8 an over, especially with the players left. It's like being 3-0 down in the last 80 minutes of a Cup Final having used all your subs.
Brainless run out.
Foooooooook me....super overErrrr...what’s just happened and wtf is a super over?!
Just been explained on TV. Both teams get one over to score more and win.Foooooooook me....super overErrrr...what’s just happened and wtf is a super over?!
What happens if after the over it's a draw, a super duper over?
Apparently that would be England?What happens if after the over it's a draw, a super duper over?
Team with the most boundaries in the course of the match and the super over wins.
I think I would rather chase in a Super Over.
No Williamson
Archer will NOT go for 15.
That was too much. So tight all the way through. Great that it was on proper tv
Oh my my my...Kiwis were so unlucky.The overthrow 6 and the rule that level was a loss.
Oh my my my...Kiwis were so unlucky.The overthrow 6 and the rule that level was a loss.
Feels not right somehow.
Oh my my my...Kiwis were so unlucky.The overthrow 6 and the rule that level was a loss.
Feels not right somehow.
Not complaining obviously, but shouldn’t the team who’ve lost less wickets win if the scores are level?
Stokes man of the match for me
Kane Williamson is one classy guy, it’s always such a pleasure to play the Kiwis because they play the game hard but fair and always within the spirit of the game.
Imagine the reaction of the Aussies if that 6 had been given against them!
They can only be described as Irish Noses (https://www.facebook.com/manstuff/photos/a.202601109774343/2689481394419623/?type=3&theater)
Begrudgery at its finest.
The Wikipedia page listing cricket world cup finals and how they were won has already been amusingly edited.
I hope Andrew Strauss takes over from Trevor Bayliss after the Ashes.
What an amazing game, I doubt we will see another like it.
I occasionally post on an Aussie cricket forum and for such a successful sporting nation they are incredibly bitter. It's one thing being a sore loser when you've lost a final but being a sore loser when you weren't even in the final is taking it to the next level.
I occasionally post on an Aussie cricket forum and for such a successful sporting nation they are incredibly bitter. It's one thing being a sore loser when you've lost a final but being a sore loser when you weren't even in the final is taking it to the next level.
I’d expect nothing less from a nation of poor winners and poor losers.
Apparently we are the only nation to win the football, rugby and cricket world cups.No one else will ever equal that.
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
I still think the overthrow incident probably cost them the game. Was such a freak occurrence and turned a two into a six.
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
I still think the overthrow incident probably cost them the game. Was such a freak occurrence and turned a two into a six.
Close games are often decided by small margins, particularly when you consider Boult stepping on to the foam boundary marker when taking a catch.
Yep, I feel a lot of sympathy for the Kiwis. To lose that way must be heartbreaking. They had their chances though.
I still think the overthrow incident probably cost them the game. Was such a freak occurrence and turned a two into a six.
Close games are often decided by small margins, particularly when you consider Boult stepping on to the foam boundary marker when taking a catch.
And the second he did Guptill (I think) signalled to the umpire that it was a six, which was a very classy gesture given the situation. I think a lot of players would have kept quiet and let the umpires sort it out. Specially the sandpapering Aussie ones.
Should have offered to share the cup with NZ. That was truly bonkers.
So presumably tomorrow is now a public holiday?
Should have offered to share the cup with NZ. That was truly bonkers.
Should have offered to share the cup with NZ. That was truly bonkers.
The Aussies are acting like a hybrid of Small Heath/Bitters/Doghead fan saltiness at England's good fortune and the fact that NZ got robbed and it was a tie. The main point of contention being around the count back not being on wickets lost but boundaries scored.
Their outrage is absolutely brilliant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/15-minutes-of-madness-that-decided-the-cricket-world-cup-final/11308738?section=sport
And as good as yesterday was (and I'm in a distinct minority here I would imagine) I'd give it all back to win the Ashes.
Alan Brazil's not a happy bunny on Talksport! :DWhy is the miserable git unhappy today? Surely not because he’s Scottish and doesn’t like England winning anything?
Alan Brazil's not a happy bunny on Talksport! :DWhy is the miserable git unhappy today? Surely not because he’s Scottish and doesn’t like England winning anything?
I expect to win the Ashes. Home teams win test series.
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Totally agree. Dont think it's a coincidence that England have a poor record at Lords. Places like Edgbaston have the atmosphere of a bear pit. Lords is too stuffy because of the "oh, jolly well played sir" mentality of the members.
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
I'm not sure. In my experience, Lord's is full of stuffed shirts, members, celebs, politicians and officials who seem determined to stamp out any fun being had. Much more fun and freedom at the Oval/Edgbaston.....even Old Trafford. I'll draw the line at Headingly.
The atmosphere would have been much much better elsewhere, I reckon
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Totally agree. Dont think it's a coincidence that England have a poor record at Lords. Places like Edgbaston have the atmosphere of a bear pit. Lords is too stuffy because of the "oh, jolly well played sir" mentality of the members.
Was the wrong call made by the umpires by awarding 4 extra runs after the ball hit Stokes' bat ?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27194046/umpires-made-error-judgement-awarding-six-runs-says-simon-taufel
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.
Totally agree. Dont think it's a coincidence that England have a poor record at Lords. Places like Edgbaston have the atmosphere of a bear pit. Lords is too stuffy because of the "oh, jolly well played sir" mentality of the members.
Nope. It was the World Cup Final. That has to be played at Lord's.
History counts
Also, I prefer the 'stuffed shirts' to the Barmy Army and especially Billy and his fecking trumpet
Was the wrong call made by the umpires by awarding 4 extra runs after the ball hit Stokes' bat ?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27194046/umpires-made-error-judgement-awarding-six-runs-says-simon-taufel
As I posted above, only an Australian has made this conclusion.
Fantastic result! can't help wondering what the atmosphere would have been like if they'd played it a a proper ground ( Oval or Edgbaston would have been my choice) instead of Lord's.Nah, Edgbaston is a great venue for England but it's Lord's every time.
I'm not sure. In my experience, Lord's is full of stuffed shirts, members, celebs, politicians and officials who seem determined to stamp out any fun being had. Much more fun and freedom at the Oval/Edgbaston.....even Old Trafford. I'll draw the line at Headingly.
The atmosphere would have been much much better elsewhere, I reckon
From what I could judge from the telly, the atmosphere was rocking. Maybe it would have been a little more rocking at Birmingham but Lord's is a fantastic place to watch cricket. What a day.
Was the wrong call made by the umpires by awarding 4 extra runs after the ball hit Stokes' bat ?
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27194046/umpires-made-error-judgement-awarding-six-runs-says-simon-taufel
As I posted above, only an Australian has made this conclusion.
If Stokes had known he needed more off the last ball he’d have played a different shot and the end result would still have been an England win so no harm done.
Apparently we've lost one test at Edgbaston since 2001
No. No need to be obsessed about one Country.And as good as yesterday was (and I'm in a distinct minority here I would imagine) I'd give it all back to win the Ashes.
I'd be with you on that
No. No need to be obsessed about one Country.And as good as yesterday was (and I'm in a distinct minority here I would imagine) I'd give it all back to win the Ashes.
I'd be with you on that
Alan Brazil's not a happy bunny on Talksport! :D
We aren't obsessed, we just don't like the cheating, shackle rattling, unsporting, gobby, criminal wankers!No one will argue with that😆
One of my regrets was not hearing yesterdays events on TMS but 5Live are repeating the last hour including the Super Overs. I'm nervous all over again.
I see Kevin Pietersen is saying that he thinks the atmosphere at Lords was the best he's even seen, anywhere. What a wonderful spectacle. The man really is a plank.Why does that make him a plank?
I think the atmosphere was great for the last hour or so and any comments like Pietersen's are about that. Before that it was really flat, even during the largely very good bowling performance.Just out of interest - were you there ?
The Aussies are acting like a hybrid of Small Heath/Bitters/Doghead fan saltiness at England's good fortune and the fact that NZ got robbed and it was a tie. The main point of contention being around the count back not being on wickets lost but boundaries scored.
Their outrage is absolutely brilliant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/15-minutes-of-madness-that-decided-the-cricket-world-cup-final/11308738?section=sport
I think the atmosphere was great for the last hour or so and any comments like Pietersen's are about that. Before that it was really flat, even during the largely very good bowling performance.Just out of interest - were you there ?
The Aussies are acting like a hybrid of Small Heath/Bitters/Doghead fan saltiness at England's good fortune and the fact that NZ got robbed and it was a tie. The main point of contention being around the count back not being on wickets lost but boundaries scored.
Their outrage is absolutely brilliant.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/15-minutes-of-madness-that-decided-the-cricket-world-cup-final/11308738?section=sport
Seemed like some fair comments to me. Not really much outrage.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, AndersonDom Sibley might be in with a shout over Roy.
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, AndersonDom Sibley might be in with a shout over Roy.
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I would be tempted to get Mark Wood in ahead of Curran.
He's shown good fitness during the WC and if it doesn't swing then Curran is cannon fodder.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I would be tempted to get Mark Wood in ahead of Curran.
He's shown good fitness during the WC and if it doesn't swing then Curran is cannon fodder.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
I would be tempted to get Mark Wood in ahead of Curran.
He's shown good fitness during the WC and if it doesn't swing then Curran is cannon fodder.
It does generally swing in England though. He was excellent last summer.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Roy, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Buttler, Stokes, Curran, Ali, Woakes, Archer, Anderson
Lot of all rounders but it's where our strength is.
Not sure that they need five seamers.
Foakes might play instead of Curran
Andy Zaltzman has been a great addition to TMS.
Andy Zaltzman has been a great addition to TMS.
I've really enjoyed their coverage throughout the tournament, particularly their daily podcast which I'm missing! I used to listen to it in the car on the way to work. Hopefully they will do something similar during the Ashes.
Speaking of which, the Ashes is our first series in the World Test championship, I only discovered that last week on Cricinfo.
The World Test Championship is a brilliant idea, done terribly. Basically everything you would want or expect is missing.
Are all the Test teams involved? No, only nine out of twelve.
Do the other three, at least, get regular, organised matches and a chance at promotion into the Championship? Nah, fuck 'em.
Do the nine teams all play each other so that it's fair? No, they play six out of the eight teams, fairness doesn't matter.
Do you at least have the biggest rivalry involved, India vs Pakistan? No.
Will India v Pakistan be involved the second time around? No.
Load of old shite.
Squad announcements
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49013831
Ireland and Afghanistan given Test status and then told to go away and play with Zimbabwe
In another decision approved by the ICC on Thursday, a captain will no longer be suspended for serious over-rate breaches, with all players taking equal responsibility and being fined the same amount as the captain.
Are Australia not very good or have we given them some parks pitch to play their warm-up game on ? Either way, they’re not learning a lot to help selecting their first test side.
Are Australia not very good or have we given them some parks pitch to play their warm-up game on ? Either way, they’re not learning a lot to help selecting their first test side.
I think it shows that their attack is as good as our attack and that their batting line up is as brittle as ours.
Nice to have test cricket back.
Roy looked terribly nervous before exiting.
Nicked from Twitter.........Midsummer Murtagh
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a batsmen get bowled through the gate more often than Bairstow.
Is Alastair Cook open to cancelling his Test retirement?
Only Roy could claim that he got out to a ball that had his name on it, it was an excellent ball that got him out. The rest have been pretty average shots by players who in the main haven’t played red ball cricket for several months.Although Roy had already nearly chopped on and been plumb LBW off a no ball.
I have Thu & Fri off work, so I'll be watching the Test and starting to read Vic's latest book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Spin-Misadventures-Vic-Marks/dp/1911630199
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/414nPP62K0L._SX337_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Nice bit of application from Leach this morning, doing exactly what a night watchman should do. I disagreed with sending in a night watchman to face an over last night, Roy should have opened as it’s his primary role. However Leach has faced 36 balls and is seeing off the new ball.
That was a bloody awful shot by Roy
Fucking hell Mo. I’ve always been a fan, but his batting is absolutely dreadful at the moment.
Fucking hell Mo. I’ve always been a fan, but his batting is absolutely dreadful at the moment.
You can add Bairstow to that list too Paul.
Fucking hell Mo. I’ve always been a fan, but his batting is absolutely dreadful at the moment.
You can add Bairstow to that list too Paul.
Yep, neither of them is adding much here.
Why are we playing risky one day shots with only 2 wickets left plus 3 full days to go?? It's red ball cricket guys!
Why are we playing risky one day shots with only 2 wickets left plus 3 full days to go?? It's red ball cricket guys!
We need runs and it’s a 4 day test so there’s only 2 days to go.
What’s the point of our batsmen blocking to remain at the crease? I’d rather we had something like 200 plus to bowl at than Curran and Broad blocking for the close and costing us runs.
Without papering over the ever-widening cracks in out batting line up, we are a formidable side with the ball. Imagine how good we’d be if we could actually bat!
24-6
Is there a worse looking batter than Tim Murtagh ?
Is there a worse looking batter than Tim Murtagh ?
I find that type of batting from a professional really odd. I feel like if I was a professional I’d have spent a lot of time practicing to at least make me vaguely serviceable with the bay.
Especially coming after Leach's knock.Is there a worse looking batter than Tim Murtagh ?
I find that type of batting from a professional really odd. I feel like if I was a professional I’d have spent a lot of time practicing to at least make me vaguely serviceable with the bay.
Turn on the women’s Ashes to see us getting absolutely pummelled again.
Amir retiring from Tests at 27, odd.
Denly's leggies are passable, as is Root's off spin. I'd prefer a front line spinner though and Jack Leach is the leading English spinner this season.
I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
I think that's part of the issue though. Picking two players (Anderson and Archer) who may not be 100% fit, plus not knowing how many Stokes can give you, is asking for trouble, even if we have lots of all rounders in the side. I don't think we need to take that risk in the first game of a five game series. Stone, at his home ground, is in with a good shout.I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
If Jimmy is fit and Stokes up to bowling, this looks to be an ideal time to play Archer. With Woakes, Broad, Jimmy and Stokes in the side, with maybe Curran as well, Archer won’t have to bowl long spells.
I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
If Jimmy is fit and Stokes up to bowling, this looks to be an ideal time to play Archer. With Woakes, Broad, Jimmy and Stokes in the side, with maybe Curran as well, Archer won’t have to bowl long spells.
I think Mo’s bowling is fine, especially in England. Look at his performance last summer.
The concern is the batting, including his.
I think Mo’s bowling is fine, especially in England. Look at his performance last summer.
The concern is the batting, including his.
In 5 Tests against Australia in England he's taken 12 @ 45.5 and conceded 4.4 runs per over. That's not fine.
I think that's part of the issue though. Picking two players (Anderson and Archer) who may not be 100% fit, plus not knowing how many Stokes can give you, is asking for trouble, even if we have lots of all rounders in the side. I don't think we need to take that risk in the first game of a five game series. Stone, at his home ground, is in with a good shout.I don't know if they'll risk Archer in a 5 day game so soon.
If Jimmy is fit and Stokes up to bowling, this looks to be an ideal time to play Archer. With Woakes, Broad, Jimmy and Stokes in the side, with maybe Curran as well, Archer won’t have to bowl long spells.
I'd go:
Burns
Roy
Denly
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Curran
Woakes
Broad
Stone
Anderson / Archer
Personally I'd have Sibley in at 2, move Roy to 3, drop Denly, and Leach in for Broad. Hard to leave Broad out but Stone offers pace the others lack. In the admittedly few games he's played for England so far he's troubled quite a few front line batsmen.
You can't play 12 players Hilts! I wish Root would man up and agree to go in at three.Oopsy. I thought it looked strong. Broad misses out then.
I wish Root would man up and agree to go in at three.
I wish Root would man up and agree to go in at three.
Sky are reporting that Root will bat at three in the first Test.
I assume that he'll just swap places with Denly since there's no reserve batsman in the squad. Unless, they move Stokes to four and play Curran instead of Denly
Based on what Denly has said he’s going to be 4.
I’d pretty wary of going in with 6 seamers.
There’s probably a case, but the weakness in batting means it’s unlikely. I personally think they should take the gloves off him and basically force him to focus on being a class top order bat. We need that more than a wicketkeeper.
Comments coming out from players about targeting and roughing up the sandpaper 3.
Think it would be a mistake to try to really get into Smith and Warner. Both strike me as players who will raise their performance when the world is against them.
Comments coming out from players about targeting and roughing up the sandpaper 3.
Think it would be a mistake to try to really get into Smith and Warner. Both strike me as players who will raise their performance when the world is against them.
There’s probably a case, but the weakness in batting means it’s unlikely. I personally think they should take the gloves off him and basically force him to focus on being a class top order bat. We need that more than a wicketkeeper.
Got wicket keepers coming out of their ears at the moment. It's tough on Foakes that he's not in the team. His red ball form is better than Jonny.
Day 1 - Radio at work
Day 2 - Radio/TV while working at home
Day3/4 - in front of TV
Day 5 - do they have these anymore
Think I’d probably have Foakes as keeper, Bairstow 4 and Denly opening instead of Burns.I think I agree, Burns looked out of his depth against Ireland. The counter is that I don't think anyone should get less than 5-6 tests to earn their place once they're given a cap (unless they have a Kerrigan like shocker where they're clearly not ready for it).
Slightly funny that this is the 1st test with names and numbers on the back, and half the England team are covering them up with sweater vests.
Reviewed the wrong one :(
Broad has started really well. Seems to have added a yard of pace
Great early wicket, and the ball was missing lol. Didn't review.
It would be lovely to get Smith before lunch.Yes so that he can leg it to Digbeth Screwfix to pick up sand paper and an angle grinder before England bat.
I've never understood why football officials get torn apart week in week out, by fans and pundits/ex players, and yet cricket officials make mistake after mistake without so much as a shrug.
It's seems football officials are held to a much higher standard. Weird.
I've never understood why football officials get torn apart week in week out, by fans and pundits/ex players, and yet cricket officials make mistake after mistake without so much as a shrug.
It's seems football officials are held to a much higher standard. Weird.
Concerning that Jimmy hasn't come back on to bowl again yet. You'd think with the aussies in trouble he'd have been straight back into th attack.
Cannot afford him to be injured.
Bringing ali into the attack. Not good signs in terms of Jimmy being injured.
Jimmy sounds like he’s knackered, which is a disaster if true.
No worries yet it’s a Test match.
Lot of rain over my way. Let’s hope it moves north.I can see that from.my vantage point in Town. Doesn't look to be threatening Edgbaston or indeed the west which is good because I have washing out.
Credit to Smith for a patient innings in difficult conditions.
Say what you like about Smith, but he always turns up.Yes you have to admire that. Not happy with Root though lifting the pressure when they were 122/8 by not having any slips for Smith.
Maybe no more booing? Doesn’t appear to help much.
Maybe no more booing? Doesn’t appear to help much.Not sure if it really affects players either way. . You could say it worked against Warner and Bancraft and for Smith.
Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
By leaving out Burns or Denly ?
I'd worry about Stokes, Buttler or Bairstow coming in at 4. I just think it's too high for them, especially if they're coming in after only a few overs which is always likely. We've got to find a way of seeing off the new ball and getting their bowlers into second or third spells before the strokemakers come in and lash them around when the ball's not doing so much.Our attack was too samey. No left arm, no real pace, unthreatening spin (first day pitch though). Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes are all fine bowlers but as a four-pronged pace attack? Not for me. How do you get Archer / Stone and Curran into that side?
By leaving out Burns or Denly ?
Denly would be the one dropped for me and have Stokes promoted up the order seeming as he would only need to bowl 5 or 6 overs in an innings if he were the 5th seamer.
I'd be in favour of trying to get Leach or Bess into the side as well but that might leave our tail a tad weak without Ali.
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
It's part of the fun but it appeared that he got a fine ovation as he left the field. I would've barracked him at the beginning but equally would've applauded him off. But you are always going to get pissheads acting up.If it had been last month, or if he and the others hadn't been severely punished, then maybe. But it was almost 18 months ago. Very smalltime.
Best batsman in the world but still a cheat.
Smalltime is the word. It reminded me of Noses going on about Jack diving.
I think the last two partnerships for Australia showed the pitch as one very good for batting. Neither Siddle or Lyon looked in any sort of trouble. Think 330-350 was probably a par score, particularly after winning the toss.
Broad and Woakes were exceptional up until tea, then tired. I think Stokes was pretty poor to be honest, didn't back the other seamers up at all.
I suppose it would have been a match situation England would have been happy with at the start of the day, but with the momentum the Aussies have gathered and our general poor batting, I think we will be in deficit by a decent amount on 1st innings.
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton?
Let’s not forget Smith is a serial offender - remember looking to the dressing room for guidance on a review in India ??There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton?
No, but the Aussies would, and I wouldn't blame them. However good Smith is his reputation will always be tarnished. I would say the same about Atherton, too.
Anderson should not have been picked. This will likely scupper our chances of victory. Olly Stone should've been picked for his 90mph plus pace.
Think thats unfair on Broad to be honest. He was hitting 89mph at times, bowled a good full length and threatened. The bigger problem in the afternoon/evening was that Anderson wasn't avaliable and Stokes didn't back up Broad and Woakes in any way. Smith played carefully, and waited for the bowlers to become tired.
There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Actually he'll be remembered as one of the greatest of all time. Maybe even the greatest since Bradman,as he currently is. The sandpaper thing will be a footnote. An ignominious footnote for sure, but that's all it'll be.There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Nah, he's cheating c***. Crying his eyes out on the telly over being caught doesn't wash.
He can score another 10,000 runs and it wont make any difference. His legacy is already written the disgraceful cheating bastard. He can sit in the Pantheon of fellow cheats of sport with Armstrong, Gatlin et al. That's his legacy.
He wasnt booed enough.
Smith is a brilliant player. Hard to believe he looked such a rabbit when we played them in 2010.
Yesterday was the sort of innings he's played before. Dug in for the team and turned the match on its head. Its the sort of innings that Root should look at and aspire to.
Wow, ball clipped Roots off stump but the bail didnt come off.
Initially given out caught behind but reversed on review
Another quality umpiring decision to give Root out!
Cannot believe the bails didn't come off though. Ball gave the stumps a good clatter
Actually he'll be remembered as one of the greatest of all time. Maybe even the greatest since Bradman,as he currently is. The sandpaper thing will be a footnote. An ignominious footnote for sure, but that's all it'll be.There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Nah, he's cheating c***. Crying his eyes out on the telly over being caught doesn't wash.
He can score another 10,000 runs and it wont make any difference. His legacy is already written the disgraceful cheating bastard. He can sit in the Pantheon of fellow cheats of sport with Armstrong, Gatlin et al. That's his legacy.
He wasnt booed enough.
Actually he'll be remembered as one of the greatest of all time. Maybe even the greatest since Bradman,as he currently is. The sandpaper thing will be a footnote. An ignominious footnote for sure, but that's all it'll be.There are questions to be asked of England and obviously they should have done better bowling at the tail, but sometimes you do have to hold your hands up in the face of quality. Smith proved he's an all-timer today, in my view.Which made the booing all the more disappointing. Still, when you've been on the piss for 7 hours there's every chance you're going to let yourself down.
Yep, really stupid. Would they boo Atherton? Panto bullshit. This is one of the great players, appreciate him.
Nah, he's cheating c***. Crying his eyes out on the telly over being caught doesn't wash.
He can score another 10,000 runs and it wont make any difference. His legacy is already written the disgraceful cheating bastard. He can sit in the Pantheon of fellow cheats of sport with Armstrong, Gatlin et al. That's his legacy.
He wasnt booed enough.
Aye, just like Maradona is known for his glorious second goal against England and the words cheat, beak head and fat don't proceed that memory.
Dream on. Smith is a cheating c***. Write his epitaph now.
As the rules do not prohibit you from shining one side of the ball. The rules do prohibit you from taking an abrasive surface to it.
The rules also say you can't polish the ball using an artificial substance. Such as sucking mints and then shining the ball, as England - particularly Trescothick - have admitted they did during the 2005 Ashes series.As the rules do not prohibit you from shining one side of the ball. The rules do prohibit you from taking an abrasive surface to it.
No offence meant but this is a quite magnificently Tory view of the world Ads!
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?The rules also say you can't polish the ball using an artificial substance. Such as sucking mints and then shining the ball, as England - particularly Trescothick - have admitted they did during the 2005 Ashes series.As the rules do not prohibit you from shining one side of the ball. The rules do prohibit you from taking an abrasive surface to it.
No offence meant but this is a quite magnificently Tory view of the world Ads!
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?Naked cricket.
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?Naked cricket.
Who’s to decide if trousers are not artificial material?Naked cricket.
*insert balls/stump/googly joke here*
The change of ball has changed the game.
Feels like a key session coming up.
Big 40 minutes coming up with the new cherry now until the close. If these two get through unscathed then we ought to be able to build a lead tomorrow.
Batting last on this pitch is not going to be easy.
Great day, brilliant effort.
Joel Wilson was only promoted back up to the Elite Parnell after a couple of post World Cup retirements
I think Aleem Dar was a late injury/illness call up
I know I will get some pelters for this but sod it, I’m going to say it.
I really don’t like the incursion of football culture into cricket. Names and numbers on shirts in a serious test match is bad enough but all the football chants, tribalism, booing of the ‘opposition’ passed off as ‘ bantz’ sickens me. People who basically go to get on Telly because they are in fancy dress and go to get pissed up and abuse the ‘ opposition fans’ are fine in end of season football matches, but please don’t pollute the wonderful game of cricket with that shit. We were all once spectators, not fans. And the booing of Steve Smith , one of the world’s finest batsmen ( not batters) was disgusting.
Signed Fred Crump
Age 103 1/2
P.S. I’m serious about this, though , really.
those who want to moan about the people who spend thousands of pounds watching England all over the world and like to sing.
Yeah cos naturally spending loads of money obviously entitles people to behave like boorish twats in public places. Welcome to New Tory Britain, 2019.
I think Sangakarra is my favourite pundit now. He’s excellent.
I think Sangakarra is my favourite pundit now. He’s excellent.
He's one hell of a quality person too.
His cowdrey lecture from a few years ago is majestic.
What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
If the forecast is not good for Sunday and Monday then surely the best idea is to get a lead which could conceivably see us win without the need to bat again or, if we do have to, to knock off not very many. I reckon we just keep going. Maybe give them 20 minutes tonight, if we get that far.I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
I think that would be dangerous, the weather reports for Sunday and Monday suggest we could lose overs on the afternoon of the 4th and morning of the 5th. What I'd hate is for us to have a lead of 150-200 and not win because we run out of time.
Personally I'd tell these 2 to stay sensible and bat as they are until Lunch, that should see us with a 60-70 lead and then after lunch I'd say just go for it and smash them out of the game.
If the forecast is not good for Sunday and Monday then surely the best idea is to get a lead which could conceivably see us win without the need to bat again or, if we do have to, to knock off not very many. I reckon we just keep going. Maybe give them 20 minutes tonight, if we get that far.I think we should just aim to bat all day again. Keep the Aussie bowlers out in the field for another full day or as near as possible. That would get us c. 250 in front.What do we think? We dont want to be chasing too many in the 4th. Need at least 420 I think.
Yeah I think we need to try and get to 400 odd if we can.
I think that would be dangerous, the weather reports for Sunday and Monday suggest we could lose overs on the afternoon of the 4th and morning of the 5th. What I'd hate is for us to have a lead of 150-200 and not win because we run out of time.
Personally I'd tell these 2 to stay sensible and bat as they are until Lunch, that should see us with a 60-70 lead and then after lunch I'd say just go for it and smash them out of the game.
Fuckin ell Mo you useless prick. He needs a hatful of wickets now if he's going to play more this series.
This is why I always think England need to accelerate a bit in games like this, we have a bad habit of giving away cheap wickets.
Across the 2 innings so far we probably let them get 100 more than they should've and now we've gifted them cheap wickets when we should've been looking at getting another 70-80. I'm not sure i like us giving away the best part of 200 runs like that.
Does Moeen actually practice batting anymore?
No Mo, you are in the team as an allrounder. The carefree attitude of "it doesn't matter how many runs I get" is not an acceptable one.Exactly. He's nowhere near being the best spinner in the country; it's because he's the best spinning allrounder in the country that he's in the team. If he isn't scoring it's time to go with a specialist spinner.
This is why I always think England need to accelerate a bit in games like this, we have a bad habit of giving away cheap wickets.
Across the 2 innings so far we probably let them get 100 more than they should've and now we've gifted them cheap wickets when we should've been looking at getting another 70-80. I'm not sure i like us giving away the best part of 200 runs like that.
Need to accelerate? That's part of the reason they are losing wickets. If they had dug in like yesterday they could have built up a decent lead.
This is why I always think England need to accelerate a bit in games like this, we have a bad habit of giving away cheap wickets.
Across the 2 innings so far we probably let them get 100 more than they should've and now we've gifted them cheap wickets when we should've been looking at getting another 70-80. I'm not sure i like us giving away the best part of 200 runs like that.
Need to accelerate? That's part of the reason they are losing wickets. If they had dug in like yesterday they could have built up a decent lead.
It really isn't, it's just poor shot selection. We've scored 31 in 14 overs since Stokes went, that's not a team that's taking risks, it's batsmen in shocking form playing stupid shots. I think there's a bit of a habit in test cricket to say that any time a team loses wickets they should just go all out defence but, just like football, the game has changed and that's often the wrong thing to do. Bowling teams expect you to be more defensive and crowd the bat. counter-attacking by being a bit more aggressive for a few overs takes the game back to how it was before you lost the wicket(s) and you get a rhythm again.
It makes me furious because it's so unprofessional. Okay, Mo and Bairstow are struggling for runs but if they can't get the ball off the square just fuckin stay there and let the bloke at the other end do it.
Thats good from Woakes and Broad. Im impressed by Broads attitude in this game. Hes bowled with energy and then hes batted with real diligence there.
I said part of the reason not the only reason, Bairstow was on the attack and it cost him his wicket whilst playing a shit shot.
It makes me furious because it's so unprofessional. Okay, Mo and Bairstow are struggling for runs but if they can't get the ball off the square just fuckin stay there and let the bloke at the other end do it.
They have this mentality that they're going to hit their way back into form, like they're Virender Sewhag. But look at Burns - slow, long, making absolutely sure he gets himself in and gets the rewards.
He’s hanging in there by a thread. He now needs 5 for nothingish in their second innings to keep his place.Does Moeen actually practice batting anymore?
He did an odd article in the Guardian about how he would be judged on his bowling during the series.
No Mo, you are in the team as an allrounder. The carefree attitude of "it doesn't matter how many runs I get" is not an acceptable one.
That's the difficulty though isn't it? How does a player whose game is based around attacking and scoring quickly turn things around when he can't get the ball off the square? You can't just say 'he needs to attack and score quickly' because that's the one thing, in that period, that he can't do. In that case I think you have to be out there as long as you can and then the runs will come simply through slow accumulation. The other point is that this is why the good players have more than Plan A. A lot of our batsmen, most in fact, only have Beast Mode.
What do you think people should Jimmy come in and bat?
That's the difficulty though isn't it? How does a player whose game is based around attacking and scoring quickly turn things around when he can't get the ball off the square? You can't just say 'he needs to attack and score quickly' because that's the one thing, in that period, that he can't do. In that case I think you have to be out there as long as you can and then the runs will come simply through slow accumulation. The other point is that this is why the good players have more than Plan A. A lot of our batsmen, most in fact, only have Beast Mode.
Again though, slow accumulation and digging in aren't the same thing. Root is an accumulator but he often goes at 60-70% in tests. Burns was very much a dig in innings and it as different from Root as Buttler is. What we need people like Moeen and Bairstow to do, when they're struggling for form, is carry on putting bat to ball as they do, but more measured and looking to run between the wickets. Getting them to leave or block just doesn't work (both of them showed as much today, Moeen by leaving one he needed to play and Bairstow by getting frustrated and wafting at one that wasn't on). Focus on adapting where they're strong and using that as plan b rather than training them in a style that's completely unnatural to them.
What do you think people should Jimmy come in and bat?
Ah well we'll have to agree to disagree.
Ah Broad gone. Well done though.
I think I'll perhaps leave it there.Ah well we'll have to agree to disagree.
It's not about disagreeing, I just don't see the point of picking someone like Bairstow and/or Ali and then expecting them to not play how they always have. If you want an obdurate defensive batsman at 7/8 who will stem the flow of wickets and make us fucking difficult to bowl out then find one and pick them but I doubt they'd be the right player for all circumstances, just like Bairstow and Moeen (even when in form) aren't always what we need at that point. The bigger problem, as ever, is sticking with players who are out of form in the hope that things just tick for them. A few games without a decent score is fine, but in the case of Moeen it's been at least a year and whilst his bowling has been ok he's not so good as to be picked as a pure bowling option.
90 lead is very good considering the score when Bairstow and Ali departed however England need to pick up wickets in the first 30 overs after that it gets difficult.Just get Smith. It all depends on him.
Warner gone on review.
Runs coming far too easily at the moment.
Big wicket. Warner had the potential to wipe the deficit out quickly.
Why is the field so spread?
I’ve had a good day today but it was the flattest atmosphere that I can remember for a Saturday of a test at Edgbaston against the Crims. I wasn’t in the Hollies but they were undoubtedly having a good time amongst themselves and weren’t inspired by events on the pitch.
It was quite attritional at times today but it was proper test cricket. An interesting couple of days ahead.
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Our test batting line up are more than capable.of collapsing in a heap.30 overs would be enoigh for us to do that
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Our test batting line up are more than capable.of collapsing in a heap.30 overs would be enoigh for us to do that
Exactly. Even if we lose all of Monday to the weather (which is possible given the forecast) we're not out of the woods as long as Smith's in.
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
This really is a great test match. Could go either way. Couple of early wickets needed this morning though I think.
The pitch has completely died. No seam, no swing, no pace in it at all. Little to no spin.
This is shit. Moeen a club cricketer right now.
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Our test batting line up are more than capable.of collapsing in a heap.30 overs would be enoigh for us to do that
Exactly. Even if we lose all of Monday to the weather (which is possible given the forecast) we're not out of the woods as long as Smith's in.
Monday is the 5th day anyway, so if we lose the day to the weather then it will be a draw - unless the match finishes today.
Interesting to open with Moeen, a huge vote of confidence. Needs to bowl well or else.As a senior player Anderson has to take the responsibility for this. He wasn't honest to himself or the team. Selectors MUST now discount him for the rest of the series and look to Curren and/or Archer.
Anderson’s stuffed us. Carrying a calf injury, declares himself fit and can only bowl 4 overs in the match.
Moeen's the one who's fucked us. Second innings is when the spinner is supposed to come to the party but he's taken 1 for 71 at nearly 4.5 per over on a wicket takes definitely taking spin.Yes and no. Moeen is fit to play however he is not in good form and should not have been picked for this match. However that's not his fault unlike Anderson.
The match will not finish today. Australia are not likely to declare before they have a lead of 320 plus and no more than 1 hour of play left today. The unlikely scenario of Australia being bowled out mid afternoon with a lead of 250 is now not going to happen. Play time will be lost this afternoon and also tomorrow. A draw is now the most favourable result.
Anderson shouldn't have been picked, that's quite true, but I'm hesitant to blame someone who isn't playing over the shit performance of someone who is.Moeen's the one who's fucked us. Second innings is when the spinner is supposed to come to the party but he's taken 1 for 71 at nearly 4.5 per over on a wicket takes definitely taking spin.Yes and no. Moeen is fit to play however he is not in good form and should not have been picked for this match. However that's not his fault unlike Anderson.
I'm thinking of going tomorrow with my lad as I'm off work. The tickets are cheap too and I've never seen an Ashes test match.They can do either. However if you can print it please do that as I have seen people having some difficulty with phone scans.
Do they just scan your phone for the ticket barcode?? I assume just get there as early as possible as well for the parking?
Remember it is very difficult to establish scientifically if a a player is 100% fit after some injuries so the final judgement is left to the player. Anderson let his heart rule his head and declared himself fit and made the bowling attack in effective. Again picking an out of form player is NOT the player's fault.He hasn't made them ineffective: Broad and Woakes were outstanding in the first innings. His absence has made them work harder, yes, but that's all. Besides, how do you know for sure that he picked himself? That's just speculation. He's got more than enough credit in the bank for me not to start on him.
How bad is the forecast for tomorrow? Was supposed to be rain a few times already but mostly play been unaffected.
Been a see saw test match certainly, Aussies should've been bowled out for 200 first innings. Should've taken the 10/1 on draw that was floating around Friday afternoon.
Edit: With Jimmy struggling is Archer going to be available for Lords?
Archer was fielding for a while earlier, so I assume he’s fit.I'm pretty sure I saw a couple of sub fielders the other day who I didn't recognise. Olly Stone did it for quite a while on day 1 but presumably he's been released back to Warwickshire now.
Have the rules on sub fielders changed ? Does it now have to be a member of the squad?
Im not keen on Archer fielding. Where’s the 2019 Gary Pratt ?
Stone is on for Jimmy and is having an exciting day stood on the boundary
I never enjoyed fielding but the thing that caused me to give up playing was wasting weekend afternoons sat in tin huts in villages around the Welsh border as the rain fell
Why would you enter an ashes test match based on past performance? Why would you go in at the age of 37, being a fast bowler, knowing full well that you had an injury that has not been properly tested on field of play? It’s not credit in the bank it’s cash on the pitch that’s required to win a test match. England being a bowler short has debilitated the attacking options. Woakes and Broad are being overworked.Remember it is very difficult to establish scientifically if a a player is 100% fit after some injuries so the final judgement is left to the player. Anderson let his heart rule his head and declared himself fit and made the bowling attack in effective. Again picking an out of form player is NOT the player's fault.He hasn't made them ineffective: Broad and Woakes were outstanding in the first innings. His absence has made them work harder, yes, but that's all. Besides, how do you know for sure that he picked himself? That's just speculation. He's got more than enough credit in the bank for me not to start on him.
Why would you enter an ashes test match based on past performance? Why would you go in at the age of 37, being a fast bowler, knowing full well that you had an injury that has not been properly tested on field of play? It’s not credit in the bank it’s cash on the pitch that’s required to win a test match. England being a bowler short has debilitated the attacking options. Woakes and Broad are being overworked.Woakes has bowled fewer overs than Pat Cummins. Ben Stokes has bowled the same amount as Cummins. Broad has bowled 3 overs more than Cummins. They've bowled more than they would have, obviously, but they're not being bowled into the ground.
Australian’s pre-match bowling plan is working as they planned it England’s plan has been disrupted by a suspect selection failing after 4 overs on the first day. That’s the difference.Fair enough. I've made my point too I think so I'll leave it there.
🤝😊Australian’s pre-match bowling plan is working as they planned it England’s plan has been disrupted by a suspect selection failing after 4 overs on the first day. That’s the difference.Fair enough. I've made my point too I think so I'll leave it there.
Root's captaincy has been horribly exposed here.Yup. I am afraid Joe is not a full shilling when it comes to captaining a cricket team. Totally out of his depth.
This has England 50-5 in our reply written all over it.This is a definite with me having a ticket for tomorrow.
Foakes, Archer and Curran in for those 3 for the 2nd test for me.Foakes and Archer absolutely but I don't think we need 5 seamers at Lord's. I'd have Leach in. If Woakes isn't fit then I'd have Curran too.
Bairstow has been fucking dreadful in this game.He hasn't played enough competitive cricket as a wicket keeper this season. That's another flow in England's strategy.
Ball being changed because it landed in a pint of beer
Tim Paine has a really punchable face.I think Nathan Lyon is worse.
Regardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
I know it's not as simplistic as it sounds, but you take out Smith's knock and they're still 240 ahead with 3 left. Google win predictor has us down to 3%, aussies edging out the draw.
Shows what aftab knows😉
Haha...honestly you lot you are all like proper Villa fans in a match thread! I stand by my word. I expect the lads to see out tomorrow for a draw and to back that I have just bought a ticket to be at Edgbaston to defend every ball if it can't be smashed for a 4 or a 6. ;DRegardless of Smith there are only two results possible from here as time will be reduced due to rain over the next two days. It's either an England win or a draw.
Well Olaftab, this comment hasn't aged well! 😉
Can you just turn up and pay on the day?
I've never seen a player like Smith. Yes Root did not captain well today at all, very exposed, but honestly how do you captain well to Smith? When the bowler comes in to Smith, it's like his various constituent body-parts are disconnected like they're hanging from different strings; when the ball arrives at him, he has the density of a rock. There's no planning for him, because whatever you think his weaknesses look like in stance, technique, backlift, whatever, they mean nothing the moment after you've released the ball. We're honestly watching one of the absolute all-time greats, and to be honest we're lucky.I'll appreciate him more when he's gone, like I did with Viv Richards, Miandad, Richie Richardson, Gilchrist, Martin Crowe, Gordon Greenidge and all those guys. I recognise his greatness already but I can't bear seeing my team ground into the dirt like that.
I’ll be stunned if we see out a draw here. The momentum of this game has swung so massively to Aus.
The crowd's version of the Jerusalem was even worse than normal today, even Aggers said how bad it was.There are not many and definitely not the usual in Rea Bank today.
Poor review from Denly, not sure what he was thinking there.That he hadn't hit it
1-0 down going to the aussies favourite ground is going to be very difficult to come back from.
For starters the pitch at Lords must be extremely green. This dukes ball isn't swinging so we need it to seam appreciably.
Sibley
Burns
Root
Roy
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach
Would be my team, assuming that Anderson is injured. Moeen and Bairstow look incapable of contributing at the moment, Denly doesn't look good enough and Roy has played his first class cricket in the middle order.
1-0 down going to the aussies favourite ground is going to be very difficult to come back from.
For starters the pitch at Lords must be extremely green. This dukes ball isn't swinging so we need it to seam appreciably.
Sibley
Burns
Root
Roy
Stokes
Buttler
Foakes
Woakes
Archer
Broad
Leach
Would be my team, assuming that Anderson is injured. Moeen and Bairstow look incapable of contributing at the moment, Denly doesn't look good enough and Roy has played his first class cricket in the middle order.
I'd be ok with that team but Lords isn't generally all that great for spinners so, if it's green, I'd consider Curran over Leach.
Look at the difference between Smith and Root. Smith most likely has won the match through his sheer brilliance. Root has produced nothing consequential with the bat and was terrible with his captaincy in the field.
I'm looking forward to a quickfire 8 off 3 balls cameo from Bairstow.Just need Vaughan to go into the changing room and tell him he’s a useless lump of meat Devi’s of any brain cells.
Pathetic morning. Also shows how bad Moeen was.
And to think we had them at 122 for 8 on day one.
And to think we had them at 122 for 8 on day one.
I'm looking forward to a quickfire 8 off 3 balls cameo from Bairstow.Me and my big mouth.
I’d quite to see Foakes come out and say he wants the gloves. Interesting to see how Jonny would react to that.
Bairstow does seem a bit erratic mentally at the moment, a bit all over the place.I’d quite to see Foakes come out and say he wants the gloves. Interesting to see how Jonny would react to that.
Probably hit a 50 and then act as if the discussion is over and go back to playing exactly as he this test.
OK Jonny didn’t need to be told worked it out himself. Time for him to have a rest.I'm looking forward to a quickfire 8 off 3 balls cameo from Bairstow.Just need Vaughan to go into the changing room and tell him he’s a useless lump of meat devoid of any brain cells.
What's the point in Jimmy batting ?The Woakes ton.
What's the point in Jimmy batting ?The Woakes ton.
The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think Monty's making a more general point about England's approach over the last 2 or 3 years, not specifically this match. Just look at who we've packed the side with.The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I'm not sure I agree, I don't think any of the wickets we've lost have come because the batsmen have been playing like their job was done. I just think we've picked too many people who are out of form. Going into the game I'd have said Burns, Denly, Bairstow and Ali were all out of form (and Buttler hasn't been himself this summer either) 1 or 2 of them turning that around during the game is possible but expecting 4 people to bat themselves into form in an ashes test is awful judgement and many of us had 2-3 of them as being dropped for this game for that very reason.
Anyway, all over and lost by 251. Given where things were on Thursday afternoon and Friday evening that's truly pathetic and a bunch of the players need to have a look at themselves.
I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think Monty's making a more general point about England's approach over the last 2 or 3 years, not specifically this match. Just look at who we've packed the side with.The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I'm not sure I agree, I don't think any of the wickets we've lost have come because the batsmen have been playing like their job was done. I just think we've picked too many people who are out of form. Going into the game I'd have said Burns, Denly, Bairstow and Ali were all out of form (and Buttler hasn't been himself this summer either) 1 or 2 of them turning that around during the game is possible but expecting 4 people to bat themselves into form in an ashes test is awful judgement and many of us had 2-3 of them as being dropped for this game for that very reason.
Anyway, all over and lost by 251. Given where things were on Thursday afternoon and Friday evening that's truly pathetic and a bunch of the players need to have a look at themselves.
I don't want to put words in his mouth but I think Monty's making a more general point about England's approach over the last 2 or 3 years, not specifically this match. Just look at who we've packed the side with.The emphasis on short form has resulted in a team of batsmen who think 30 is a decent score and 50 is job done.
I'm not sure I agree, I don't think any of the wickets we've lost have come because the batsmen have been playing like their job was done. I just think we've picked too many people who are out of form. Going into the game I'd have said Burns, Denly, Bairstow and Ali were all out of form (and Buttler hasn't been himself this summer either) 1 or 2 of them turning that around during the game is possible but expecting 4 people to bat themselves into form in an ashes test is awful judgement and many of us had 2-3 of them as being dropped for this game for that very reason.
Anyway, all over and lost by 251. Given where things were on Thursday afternoon and Friday evening that's truly pathetic and a bunch of the players need to have a look at themselves.
What the fuck is the Australian still doing in charge? He did his bit by winning the one day WC, but he has never prioritised the longer form of the game. Offer the job to Andrew Strauss today.Strauss himself appointed Bayliss though, because the ECB decided that one-day cricket was where they wanted the game to go. Strauss was totally on board with that approach. Giles will now be responsible for picking the next coach, he wants someone to tip things back in favour of red ball cricket and it won't be Strauss. They're looking at Chris Silverwood to step up apparently with Andrew McDonald another contender.
What the fuck is the Australian still doing in charge? He did his bit by winning the one day WC, but he has never prioritised the longer form of the game. Offer the job to Andrew Strauss today.Strauss himself appointed Bayliss though, because the ECB decided that one-day cricket was where they wanted the game to go. Strauss was totally on board with that approach. Giles will now be responsible for picking the next coach, he wants someone to tip things back in favour of red ball cricket and it won't be Strauss. They're looking at Chris Silverwood to step up apparently with Andrew McDonald another contender.
Right I think time to replace Joe as skipper. He is resembling Botham and Gower when they were captains. My suggestion is Burns because he is a County captain failing that Livingstone from Lancs?
Don't want to make excuses for them, but I went yesterday and some of them looked tired (Stokes could hardly move after bowling). Think the World Cup might have taken a lot out of some of them.
.
Roy has the talent, but he needs to think about the situation. If we had been chasing say 220 for a win today I could have reconciled what he did, because in that situation knocking Lyon out of the game makes sense and is a calculated risk. However in this game we were never every scoring 400 on the last day, so even if Roy had put that ball in the stands what does it do? There’s no scoreboard pressure on Australia, so it was a risk that offered no benefit. That’s all about decision making and he needs to learn that.
He is one I’m less concerned about though, I think he can deliver and needs time.
I’d also like an explanation of the lack of Woakes bowling yesterday. If he’s injured that’s bad, but understandable. If he wasn’t then it casts further doubt on Root’s captaincy. Not least because he’s put extra miles in Broad and Stokes legs and we’ve got all sorts of injury concerns.
Root had a dreadful game as captain. Starting right from the Aussie first innings when he put every fielder on the boundary for Smith. Absolutely idiotic. It just got worse yesterday.
I’d also bring Malan in. The Aussies picked form batsmen very deliberately, we haven’t.
You could argue that Burns, Root, Buttler, Denly, Bairstow and Ali all came into this game in poor form. Only one of those players genuinely found their way out of that poor form, Burns. Root did to an extent, but you cannot carry that many players. Did the others get more than 50 runs between them in the entire game?
When the Aussies were 122/8 Root had no slip fielders for Smith allowing him to pick his shots without worry or bother. Amongst his many errors that was the worst.
When the Aussies were 122/8 Root had no slip fielders for Smith allowing him to pick his shots without worry or bother. Amongst his many errors that was the worst.
With a fully fit Anderson, Australia wouldn't have got 150. We played with 10 men most of the match. That decision to play Jimmy cost us the match, end of.....
Bairstow and Buttler are both in really poor form. I’d genuinely consider swapping Bairstow for Foakes.Yes. I am not sure if Denly should get another chance? Leach must come in for Ali.
Bairstow and Buttler are both in really poor form. I’d genuinely consider swapping Bairstow for Foakes.Yes. I am not sure if Denly should get another chance? Leach must come in for Ali.
Archer in action against Glos 2nds
https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1158700008826384384
I wonder if playing the Aussies really gets to Moeen? His form deserted him on the last tour down under and the same appears to be happening now.I have no doubt that Aussies have given him some horrific sledging but he needs to deal with. If that is affecting his form he needs to work on his mental toughness.
I recall reading a serialisation of his autobiography and he claimed that one of the Aussies racially abused him and called him Osama in the 2015 Ashes. He didn’t name the player but if he’s still in the side now then it could well be affecting him.
Archer in action against Glos 2nds
https://twitter.com/TheCricketerMag/status/1158700008826384384
I just don’t see who Stone would come in for. I imagine he’s next cab off the rank behind Archer, but hopefully he won’t be needed.
I considered him but Warwickshire need either Stone or Woakes to stay clear of the bottom so I'd let him go back and bring him through after the series as a longer term replacement for Broad. I can see Jimmy retiring soon and then Broad easing out over the next 12-18months.Yes that’s my thought as well. Works for Warks and will work for England long term.
I just don’t see who Stone would come in for. I imagine he’s next cab off the rank behind Archer, but hopefully he won’t be needed.
For Broad. He's living on his reputation. Losing his hunger?
Broad was our best bowler and I don't think lack of hunger will ever be an issue for him, especially against the Aussies. On the rare occasions when Jimmy hasn't been able to play Broad has stepped up magnificently.
Broad bowled really well in his first spell and took four wickets when England were on top, then he reverts to bowling short or wide and get very ordinary. He's been brilliant for us but he's coming to the end. I take the point about height at Lords and that's why he will play but I honestly think he's on the wane.
Such a shame Mark Wood can't stay fit. I'd be taking him to South Africa too.
Such a shame Mark Wood can't stay fit. I'd be taking him to South Africa too.
I'm at the point of giving up on him ever being the player we hope, he just can't stay fit for long enough.
I wonder if playing the Aussies really gets to Moeen? His form deserted him on the last tour down under and the same appears to be happening now.I have no doubt that Aussies have given him some horrific sledging but he needs to deal with. If that is affecting his form he needs to work on his mental toughness.
I recall reading a serialisation of his autobiography and he claimed that one of the Aussies racially abused him and called him Osama in the 2015 Ashes. He didn’t name the player but if he’s still in the side now then it could well be affecting him.
One thing's for sure, Ollie Stone won't be involved at Lord's. Out for two weeks with a back injury apparently.
https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/ (https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/)
Bravo.One thing's for sure, Ollie Stone won't be involved at Lord's. Out for two weeks with a back injury apparently.
https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/ (https://warwickshireccc.com/news/stone-ruled-out-for-two-weeks/)
I beat you to this by nearly an hour!
Indeed. He’s got to play.
Moeen dropped for 2nd Test
Archer will definitely play I’d have thought. I really like Curran, but we need pace.
Covers going back on.
Oh dear 150 all out here we come.
Excellent selection from the Aussies. No qualms about changing a winning team. Hazlewood looks a perfect bowler for the Lords slope.
It looks like its going to be difficult to force a result on this pitch.
Most of tomorrow looks like being washed out. Saturday and Sunday look good, but 3 and a half days cricket looks insufficient unless there is a bad collapse.
Thats poor from Buttler. No need to play at that one.
Another shit batting performance in progress.
Thats poor from Buttler. No need to play at that one.
Another shit batting performance in progress.
Yep a nothing shot, he's lucky to keep his place I think. I always see him as a destructive one day player and not a test cricketer.
Thats poor from Buttler. No need to play at that one.
Another shit batting performance in progress.
Yep a nothing shot, he's lucky to keep his place I think. I always see him as a destructive one day player and not a test cricketer.
Problem is theres no batsmen, with the possible exception of Root and Burns who are justifying there place in the team at the moment.
Its a fucking shit show, and that there isn't credible alternatives in the county system reflects very badly on English cricket.
Part of the problem is that there’s just not the batting talent playing red ball championship cricket. Sibley and Zac Crawley are the next in line but are they really any better than what we already have in the side?
I have a feeling that they will stick with who they have selected for the time being. The batting malaise runs deep and won’t be fixed by chopping and changing the order. The top four has been inconsistent for several years and have constantly been bailed out by the lower middle order. The problem that we now have is that the players occupying the lower middle order positions are so short of form.
What on earth has happened to Root? Both as a captain, and as a player?It was a poor decision to make him captain. He needs to be removed from that position for two obvious reasons. He is a very poor captain and his batting is rapidly going to pot.
This partnership is what I mean by going for it, they're still batting sensibly but they're being a bit more adventurous, pushing us along to a competitive score.
We've lost a couple more wickets than I'd have liked but I said we need to be around 200 by tea and we're there or thereabout.
That's another desperate review.
Denly's the same age now as Ian Bell was when he played his last test. Madness.
This partnership is what I mean by going for it, they're still batting sensibly but they're being a bit more adventurous, pushing us along to a competitive score.
We've lost a couple more wickets than I'd have liked but I said we need to be around 200 by tea and we're there or thereabout.
That's another desperate review.
Those 'couple of wickets' are a big difference though.
Trouble is Paul, the likely 150 from Smith means that 300 really isn't par on this pitch.
Trouble is Paul, the likely 150 from Smith means that 300 really isn't par on this pitch.
Then the job is to try to bowl him out rather than acting like it's impossible and just trying to leave him stuck up the other end, more bluntly Root needs to grow a pair when we're bowling.
What a peach of a ball from Broad to get Warner!
Beauty from Broad.
Him and Archer look menacing to say the least.
Beauty from Broad.
Him and Archer look menacing to say the least.
Archer needs to make the batsmen play more shots, he’s bowling well and is getting plenty of shape but I’d rather see him forcing the batsmen to play a shot and bring the slips into play.
Disappointing not to get more tonight but plenty there. Need to hit them hard tomorrow.
Forecast suggests there might be about an hours play tomorrow morning, with the rest of the day a likely washout.Stop being sensible. Marylebone Cricket Club members would not like that. It interferes with their leisurely breakfast.
What seems daft, is that the plan to make up the time lost is to extend play to 7pm rather than starting the day early. Why can't they be flexible enough to look at the forecast and decide to start play at 10:30am?
Rain might be our best friend in this test. Wash this one out and then win a couple of the last three to win back those ashes. Yup, looking unlikely as it currently stands. We need changes to the batting line up but I don't know who we bring in.
Some more poor decisions from the umpires. Is it just the DRS making them look worse, or are they just not as focussed these days because they know the review system is there?Bit of both really. I think they are more prepared to make a decision knowing it can be corrected however I think Umpires are now better than say 30 years ago. They are better trained and officiate a lot more. Having said that I think the only area that has improved is runouts and stumpings by DRS.
That's probably gonna be it for the day.Yes it’s going to get worse as afternoon progresses. Typical Aussies get all the luck☹️
Some more poor decisions from the umpires. Is it just the DRS making them look worse, or are they just not as focussed these days because they know the review system is there?Bit of both really. I think they are more prepared to make a decision knowing it can be corrected however I think Umpires are now better than say 30 years ago. They are better trained and officiate a lot more. Having said that I think the only area that has improved is runouts and stumpings by DRS.
Some more poor decisions from the umpires. Is it just the DRS making them look worse, or are they just not as focussed these days because they know the review system is there?Bit of both really. I think they are more prepared to make a decision knowing it can be corrected however I think Umpires are now better than say 30 years ago. They are better trained and officiate a lot more. Having said that I think the only area that has improved is runouts and stumpings by DRS.
That LBW decision earlier was dreadful. It was one of the most obviously out things I've ever seen.
Was a vicious ball and Smith played it badly. Hope he's okay, looked awful on slo-mo.
I do hope there is nothing serious as o wouldn’t want him to miss the rest of the series🙊🤞Was a vicious ball and Smith played it badly. Hope he's okay, looked awful on slo-mo.
He’s gone to hospital for an X-ray on his arm after he was hit by another Archer thunderbolt.
Root’s lack of form is becoming a real problem. He’s looking poor.Whatever happens in this test match he must be freed from the captaincy burden for the next 3.
Smith can't bat for them, so we have to set them a target. They are putting Labuschange or whatsisname in as a replacement from Smith. Gotta go for it England, put them under some pressure with Archer steaming in to scare the shit out of them. Need a lead of 220 ish I reckon.
I quite like the idea of a replacement player for concussion. The issue here is that Smith came back out to bat, so would have passed all the required tests. I don't think after that they should be allowed to call up the replacement.
I think going forward, this should be handled by independent doctors rather than team doctors.
I don't like a concussion sub and certainly not when the fucker came out to bat again. If you are retired hurt, you are retired hurt. That has always been the case and we shouldn't swap now.
I don’t think we can win, but we can shift the momentum for the next game. Stokes’ hundred was excellent.Exactly. The very positive takes are Stokes and Archer. Those two in top form are enought to defeat the Aussies in the 3rd Test providing....
I don't like a concussion sub and certainly not when the fucker came out to bat again. If you are retired hurt, you are retired hurt. That has always been the case and we shouldn't swap now.
I don't agree, just because something has always been the case doesn't mean it needs to remain such. We wouldn't have substitutes in football on that basis. Sport, generally, is taking concussion far more seriously than it used to, and that can only be a good thing in terms of preventing problems in later life as happened to Jeff Astle, among others, and about a million American footballers.
He felt he was okay to bat but now feels he should be looked at. You shouldn't take any chances with a head injury. It's not like they've gained any advantage anyway, losing their best batsman.
I don’t think we can win, but we can shift the momentum for the next game. Stokes’ hundred was excellent.Exactly. The very positive takes are Stokes and Archer. Those two in top form are enought to defeat the Aussies in the 3rd Test providing....
providing Smith is sent home.
How long before they shake hands and call it a draw? There’s nothing happening really.
Weather disruptions in cricket annoy me. Build some roofs ;)
I think that momentum has swung firmly back in our favour. Archer has them rattled and even Smith will be questioning how he can deal with him. Let’s hope he stays fit.
I do think Archer is a different level though. It’s virtually impossible to discern whether he’s going to bowl full or short. It must be a nightmare to face.
Oh I don't reckon it'll be easy. But someone will build one. Maybe when cricket gets in the Olympics.
I do think Archer is a different level though. It’s virtually impossible to discern whether he’s going to bowl full or short. It must be a nightmare to face.
I do think Archer is a different level though. It’s virtually impossible to discern whether he’s going to bowl full or short. It must be a nightmare to face.
His pace is the biggest problem but not just because he's so quick, it's because he's a lot quicker than he looks like he should be. He hits people a lot because they just can't get the timing right (it's also why he's so hard to score off in red ball cricket).
earlier in the test Holding (I think) was talking about it, he adds a few mph of pace by flicking his wrist in the delivery, it also means he can get extra bounce but it's really hard to spot because it's so natural to him that he has no 'tell'.
I think I called him as a future England player pretty early on here and it was on the back of seeing about 20 deliveries in the big bash, it was just so obvious that he was special and I'm just glad that England have realised that and fast-tracked him in. I honestly think he'll be the number 1 bowler in the world, across all 3 formats, within 2 years.
I do hope not. Covering the Wicket is a step too far for me.
Root needs to be careful he doesn’t over bowl Jof. He had a massive workload in that game, and Woakes was underused.
Root needs to be careful he doesn’t over bowl Jof. He had a massive workload in that game, and Woakes was underused.
It was fair enough in the 2nd innings. He was the most dangerous seamer by a distance.
The thing with Archer is that his run up and action seem to take very little out of him. It looks as though its very easy for him to generate pace. Case in point being his spell where he hit Smith being his 5th spell of the innings and his fastest.
Obviously don't want to overdo it, but Archer can easily bowl 6/7/8 over spells.
Smith confirmed out for next match.
Vaughan said on TMS yesterday that he’d heard on the grapevine that Woakes is carrying an injury. Again.I hope not because despite Jofra he is still the best bowling hope to win the Ashes.
Yes the Doctor has to take some blame here. Putting aside the rivalry and benefit of Smith missing the next Test match I was alarmed listening to Smith describing how he felt the nest morning when he woke up. OK he is an outstanding sportsman but still relatively naive but enthusiastic young man and requires protection from those around him. The experienced management and medical staff didn't do their job right in letting him go out again.
Because Smith passed the concussion tests. Apparently in some cases the symptoms don't manifest until some time after the incident, which is presumably why Smith felt like shit the following morning rather than at the time.Smith confirmed out for next match.
Has the Aussie Doctor explained why he was allowed back out to bat in the first innings ?
Don’t know about that, Broad has been excellent.Agreed. Woakes has been slightly below par but Broad has been excellent. It seems Woakes isn't fully fit and the batch of balls made for this series hasn't swung as much as expected, both of which have reduced his effectiveness. Still very handy with the bat but I can see why they might go with Curran instead for the next Test.
Its an interesting point about the balls. They haven't swung even under floodlights. That can't have been what the English set up expected after deciding to use the same specification as the 2018 balls that swung round corners.
I'd also.say the 2 pitches haven't been anywhere near as green as Englad would have wanted. Its almost like we are trying too hard to make our hosts feel welcome.
Because Smith passed the concussion tests. Apparently in some cases the symptoms don't manifest until some time after the incident, which is presumably why Smith felt like shit the following morning rather than at the time.Smith confirmed out for next match.
Has the Aussie Doctor explained why he was allowed back out to bat in the first innings ?
I totally agree he wasn't himself but there seems very little point in having standard tests if you're going to ignore the results when you get them. I read yesterday that Smith passed the tests three times before he went back out.Because Smith passed the concussion tests. Apparently in some cases the symptoms don't manifest until some time after the incident, which is presumably why Smith felt like shit the following morning rather than at the time.Smith confirmed out for next match.
Has the Aussie Doctor explained why he was allowed back out to bat in the first innings ?
Medical people know that concussion symptoms are often delayed and should act accordingly. As other have said, Smith wasn't himself when he went back out.
Raining at Headingley, forecast is that the rain will clear about 11am. I imagine that the start will be delayed but here’s no official announcement yet.
Need at least three wickets by lunch.
Need at least three wickets by lunch.
Well, there's the first. Beauty from Archer.
Its looking dangerous at the moment. Woakes and Stokes have bowled poorly and Root is waiting far too long to take them out the attack.
There isn't a lot you can do about rain, but the ridiculous decision to go off for "bad light" has swung this game Australia's way.
I don't think there is any sport which treats its supporters with such disdain as cricket.
There isn't a lot you can do about rain, but the ridiculous decision to go off for "bad light" has swung this game Australia's way.
I don't think there is any sport which treats its supporters with such disdain as cricket.
I agree with your point about the bad light, but what has given Australia the advantage is how poorly Woakes and Stokes are bowling.
Woakes has gone at over a run a ball yet Root has taken him out of the attack? That's awful captaincy
Root needs replacing as captain, pronto. His head's gone completely. Needs to concentrate on his batting. I'd give it to either Bairstow or Stokes.Not Bairstow. He's far too excitable and emotional. Stokes - on the field at least - is remarkably level-headed. Buttler is probably the best captain in the side but not sure of his place.
Archer shows how having pace in your team is very helpful in getting rid of the tail quickly. He was outstanding today. If / when Anderson gets himself fit, Woakes could be in trouble.
Archer shows how having pace in your team is very helpful in getting rid of the tail quickly. He was outstanding today. If / when Anderson gets himself fit, Woakes could be in trouble.
It was interesting today it looked like Jof wasn’t going full gun in terms of pace, albeit still touching 90, but focussing on using the conditions. That shows immense skill and awareness.
Archer shows how having pace in your team is very helpful in getting rid of the tail quickly. He was outstanding today. If / when Anderson gets himself fit, Woakes could be in trouble.
It was interesting today it looked like Jof wasn’t going full gun in terms of pace, albeit still touching 90, but focussing on using the conditions. That shows immense skill and awareness.
He's a one-man full bowling attack. He's walked into the side and he's already the best and most important player.
Aus have a hell of a bowling attack, we’re going to need to bat well.I think they have an average bowling attack. It's more a worry that England's top 5 out of 6 batsman are poor.
Really? Cummins in the number 1 bowler in the world, Hazlewood is excellent and Pattinson would be one of the best if he stayed fit. Then you have Lyon who has over 300 test wickets. I’d say that’s pretty good.
Be batting at the end of the day England.
Really? Cummins in the number 1 bowler in the world, Hazlewood is excellent and Pattinson would be one of the best if he stayed fit. Then you have Lyon who has over 300 test wickets. I’d say that’s pretty good.We will have to remain disagreed on this.
If England go on to lose this series, which is still a big if, with a new coach coming in we may see Root step down as skipper. He just hasn't seemed the same batsman since he took the job on. I don't think I'd put him up there with Smith, Kohli and Williamson on current form.
That was a perfect line to bowl to Root early in his innings.It was a good ball but just look at Root he's got himself into a very poor position to do anything about it. This is not the batting we expected from one of the best in the world................... that he was.
If England go on to lose this series, which is still a big if, with a new coach coming in we may see Root step down as skipper. He just hasn't seemed the same batsman since he took the job on. I don't think I'd put him up there with Smith, Kohli and Williamson on current form.
Root’s form disappeared half way through the World Cup and he hasn’t got it back yet.
Roy, Burns, Denly should be no where near any England team and on recent form nor should Root. The fact that that’s the current top 4 is a bit embarrassing.Burns is England's top run scorer this series and is averaging nearly 60. Only Stokes has a higher average.
But that was a bit shit.Roy, Burns, Denly should be no where near any England team and on recent form nor should Root. The fact that that’s the current top 4 is a bit embarrassing.Burns is England's top run scorer this series and is averaging nearly 60. Only Stokes has a higher average.
Roy, Burns, Denly should be no where near any England team and on recent form nor should Root. The fact that that’s the current top 4 is a bit embarrassing.Burns is England's top run scorer this series and is averaging nearly 60. Only Stokes has a higher average.
Having a coach who doesn't give a single fuck about Test Cricket probably doesn't help either.
Root got a good ball but failed to move his feet. The other 3 wickets were desperately poor batting.So 4 wickets were desperately poor batting.
So is the pitch a nightmare to bat on, or are we just playing terribly? Can't watch it as I'm at work.Playing terribly against some disciplined bowling and fielding. Some of the shot selection beggars belief.
So is the pitch a nightmare to bat on, or are we just playing terribly? Can't watch it as I'm at work.
So is the pitch a nightmare to bat on, or are we just playing terribly? Can't watch it as I'm at work.Playing terribly against some disciplined bowling and fielding. Some of the shot selection beggars belief.
Hopefully this series will be a turning point where we go back to the basics of what Test cricket actually is.Until the ECB decides to put the County Championship front and centre in the schedule things won't change. And the ECB won't do that.
Hopefully this series will be a turning point where we go back to the basics of what Test cricket actually is.Until the ECB decides to put the County Championship front and centre in the schedule things won't change. And the ECB won't do that.
This is an astonishing shitshow. Pope, Curran and Foakes must come in, and Root must be replaced as captain.What if Jimmy's fit?
Drop Buttler, absolute joke.
This is a disgrace. I’d genuinely look at dropping half the batsmen.
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
This is an astonishing shitshow. Pope, Curran and Foakes must come in, and Root must be replaced as captain.What if Jimmy's fit?
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
Blimey, if Warner’s going to waft like that, maybe there is hope
Blimey, if Warner’s going to waft like that, maybe there is hope
I don't think we'd get their total if we were batting again now.
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
They do, and that irritates me too. No need to throw people under the bus or become defeatist, but when there is a problem I like to hear that it is recognised by the coach and captain. And 3 or 4 double figure first innings totals in two years suggests a whopping problem.
No doubt it will have been 'one of those days, shouldn't panic, still a good side, credit to the Australian bowlers, made it difficult for us'. More platitudes.To be fair, footballers and managers do that all the time. All sportsmen do it. I remember Jo Konta talking absolute horseshit after she megachoked in the Frecnh Open semi.
Root really does irritate me as a captain. There's remaining positive, and there is talking bollocks.
They do, and that irritates me too. No need to throw people under the bus or become defeatist, but when there is a problem I like to hear that it is recognised by the coach and captain. And 3 or 4 double figure first innings totals in two years suggests a whopping problem.
Root blamed the groundsman for the Ireland debacle, saying the pitch "wasn't up to test standard".
Well we've now been bowled out for 67 in bright sunshine and a flat deck.
Archer isn’t on it today. Down on pace and accuracy, but probably not surprising as he’s had no rest.
For fuck's sake. Abu Hamza would have caught that.
For fuck's sake. Abu Hamza would have caught that.
Root’s game seems to be falling apart in Bothamesque style.
That rules Stokes out then. No-one else is certain of their place. Maybe Broad as an interim? Don't know if he's ever skippered at any level. Anyway, it's difficult for bowlers to do it. The cupboard really is bare. I think the only player in the side who is a county captain is Burns. Maybe Denly.Root’s game seems to be falling apart in Bothamesque style.
It's a national obsession, lumbering the best player with the captaincy. We never fucking learn.
Look at how Labuschagne has played. How the fuck can’t any of our players do it? i.e. basics of leaving and putting a high price on your wicket.
If one or two batsmen had done that today we’d be ahead in the game. If we don’t have batsmen who can do that full on reform of our game is needed.
Look at how Labuschagne has played. How the fuck can’t any of our players do it? i.e. basics of leaving and putting a high price on your wicket.
If one or two batsmen had done that today we’d be ahead in the game. If we don’t have batsmen who can do that full on reform of our game is needed.
Yep, these are the basics.
350 on day three pitch... could we...
I bet Boycott in the commentary box must be cursing that he can't get out there. At Headingley, and the explicit goal is just to bat forever without losing a wicket.
What a shit show this test has been.Our bowling has been good. The collective brain fart in the first innings is what has fucked us. We get just 100 more then and it's a totally different game. That said, the fielding in their second innings was pretty ragged.
For fucks sake Denly, no fucking wafty drives.
Good discussion on R5 Extra earlier. Apparently Roy’s longest ever innings in terms of actual time is just over 3 hours. Not exactly the best preparation for a test opener expected to take the sting out of the new ball.
Going well today, though. If they all bat like this, we have enough batting to get close.
Roy needs time, he can become a good option with some time to find his feet but the ashes isn't the place to give him that.
If we could fit him in down the order I'd be ok with keeping him in but he can't be opening for us.
We'll get to 200+ for 2 and then collapse
Bloody hell the Aussies don’t shut up do they?
We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
One option is Pope, another is to take the gloves off Bairstow and pick Foakes. A further option is to drop Denly and move Roy down, picking Sibley or Crawley to open. I think that would be harsh on Denly: he's batted better than Roy, is excellent in the field and is a useful leg spin option.We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
One option is Pope, another is to take the gloves off Bairstow and pick Foakes. A further option is to drop Denly and move Roy down, picking Sibley or Crawley to open. I think that would be harsh on Denly: he's batted better than Roy, is excellent in the field and is a useful leg spin option.We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
We need Root or Stokes to bat through and it’s time for Buttler and Bairstow to deliver. If Buttler fails tomorrow he should be dropped.For who ? Genuinely interested in the answer here and would extend the debate to the whole team if you to ?
Roy to 5 and Sibley in would be sensible.I think as things stand Roy's the most at risk.
WTF Root. Why was he charging the spinner at this stage ?Well he only had just over 80 overs to get 200 runs so obvious thing to do :'(
WTF Root. Why was he charging the spinner at this stage ?Well he only had just over 80 overs to get 200 runs so obvious thing to do :'(
Could have taken a run to guarantee a draw. If the Aussies hadn't wasted a review it would be all over. Stokes was plum.
Could have taken a run to guarantee a draw. If the Aussies hadn't wasted a review it would be all over. Stokes was plum.Thank you Joe Wilson. Possible the worst Umpire of current era but ;D
Cummins may be the best bowler, Smith the best batsman, but the world's best cricketer by a million miles is Ben Stokes.Just pure talent. Right up there now with the best IMO.
I couldn't sit down for the last hour, incredible and what a testimonial for Test cricket. Wonderful.I refused to look at anything. TV, Radio, SSN shut my ears and eyes from 62 needed till it was 18 to go.
There's some weapons grade whinging going on by Australians. Variously they blame Jofra Archer, the ECB, British weather, the umpires and Tim Paine. Genuinely there are no sorer losers than Australian sports fans.
What a shit show this test has been.
There's some weapons grade whinging going on by Australians. Variously they blame Jofra Archer, the ECB, British weather, the umpires and Tim Paine. Genuinely there are no sorer losers than Australian sports fans.
Tim Paine himself was very gracious at the end, especially about the Stokes lbw decision. Yes, it was wrong, but it would have been a crime against sport if that knock hadn’t been match winning.
Ben Stokes has probably save Joe Root's job as Captain. Amazing innings. Best I've ever seen.
Not sure what they do if Jimmy is fitThey pick him and drop Woakes. Woakes has seemed jaded this series. I'd drop Roy for Sibley. What this Test has made absolutely clear is that we need batsmen who can dig the fuck in.
Not sure what they do if Jimmy is fitThey pick him and drop Woakes. Woakes has seemed jaded this series. I'd drop Roy for Sibley. What this Test has made absolutely clear is that we need batsmen who can dig the fuck in.
he needs to play a 4 day County first or reserve game before he is considered for selection.That's exactly what he has been doing this week.
Just woken up, didn’t bother watching last night, wasn’t in the mood to see the likes of Warner and Lyon dancing on the ground celebrating.
How did we get on? 😉
Anderson is not fit. He has not played any cricket since the first test in any case. If he is passed medically fit he needs to play a 4 day County first or reserve game before he is considered for selection. Otherwise it's a big risk.
A balanced Aussie viewThanks for this. Good read.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
It is, ta for posting.A balanced Aussie viewThanks for this. Good read.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
It is, ta for posting.A balanced Aussie viewThanks for this. Good read.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
Not sure what they do if Jimmy is fitThey pick him and drop Woakes. Woakes has seemed jaded this series. I'd drop Roy for Sibley. What this Test has made absolutely clear is that we need batsmen who can dig the fuck in.
A balanced Aussie view
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/we-can-all-die-happy-now-cricket-doesn-t-get-any-better-than-this-20190826-p52knk.html
Just woken up, didn’t bother watching last night, wasn’t in the mood to see the likes of Warner and Lyon dancing on the ground celebrating.
How did we get on? 😉
All out for 235. Utter shit, don't bother with the highlights.
I still can't quite believe Stokes' innings earlier. Not that he got the runs, but more the manner in which he did it. Probably the closest thing to Botham's innings on the same ground in 1981, but in some ways even more impressive as it was in the fourth innings chasing a total.
I still can't quite believe Stokes' innings earlier. Not that he got the runs, but more the manner in which he did it. Probably the closest thing to Botham's innings on the same ground in 1981, but in some ways even more impressive as it was in the fourth innings chasing a total.
Stokes started off the innings playing like Boycott and finished it like Botham. The ability to adapt to the circumstances is something that a lot of players don't have....... yes Jason Roy, I'm looking at you
You can vote for your most thrilling Ashes win on BBC Sport:It's difficult to look beyond yesterday, and Stokes's innings was one of the greatest of all time, but I think the overall quality of the cricket in 2005 was much higher.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49468534
I never thought Edgbaston 2005 would be surpassed but I think that it has been now.
But this ignores the counter attack from Bairstow who was scoring at nearly a run a ball not long after he arrived which eased the pressure and put them on the back foot, to a lesser extent Archer was doing the same.
I think it's about control more than patience, Roy, Buttler and a few others feel out of control if they not feeling bat on ball, especially if they scratching for form.
You can vote for your most thrilling Ashes win on BBC Sport:It's difficult to look beyond yesterday, and Stokes's innings was one of the greatest of all time, but I think the overall quality of the cricket in 2005 was much higher.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49468534
I never thought Edgbaston 2005 would be surpassed but I think that it has been now.
Picture I've seen where the ball struck Stokes in line with leg stump. The ball was drifting towards the leg side, and whilst it did straighten, I don't think it straightened enough to clatter into middle and leg stumps which is what the ball tracking suggested.
Vaughan made an awful point too. He basically said that as England had a review left, Wilson should have given it out and if wrong the review would have overturned it. I think that is nonsense. For a start, that is rewarding the team that wasted their reviews. It removes the benefit of the doubt which every umpire surely has to factor in regardless of match situation. The umpire has to adjudicate every ball on its merits. He shouldn't be factoring in the state of the game or which team has a review left. If he thinks there is enough doubt to give it not out then he should do so.
I get that Joel Wilson has been atrocious in this series and really doesn't warrant his place on the elite panel, but for Vaughan to suggest umpires completely change their thought process on the back of this one instance is just daft.
When do they announce the squad for the 4th Test ?
Anderson ruled out for the summer. Craig Overton weirdly added to the squad and no changes to batsmen included.
Appears the selectors have fallen into trap of thinking everything is fine after the last test.
Jimmy being out is a blow. I’d consider Curran for Woakes.
I think Curran would be the right call. Looking more reliable with the bat which matters with our flimsy top order, and would offer a different angle of attack. Plus Woakes looks shattered.
I agree with dropping Woakes but replacing him with Overton is an odd one.
I think it's all about his height in the hopes that he'll get a bit of extra bounce. I'd rather we'd picked Curran as a skiddy swing option.We already have Broad and Archer for extra bounce; I agree with you - always go for the variety. I'd fancy Curran to score more from number 8 too, although to be fair Overton can bat a bit.
Denly is saying that he is going to open at Old Trafford with Jason Roy moving down to number 4.That's about eight places too high for Roy.
What's Archer's thinking here? Pace low eighties, line and length. That's exactly what Overton's been brought in to do. Still, early days.
Enough of the warm up. I want to see him crank it right up against Smith.What's Archer's thinking here? Pace low eighties, line and length. That's exactly what Overton's been brought in to do. Still, early days.
Jofra always starts off at a lower pace
Why Archer has only bowled 5 overs is a mystery. Why Root took him out of the attack after he started getting his pace up is baffling.
Why Archer has only bowled 5 overs is a mystery. Why Root took him out of the attack after he started getting his pace up is baffling.
It's not that mcuh of a mystery. Root is a crap captain.
Why Archer has only bowled 5 overs is a mystery. Why Root took him out of the attack after he started getting his pace up is baffling.
It's not that mcuh of a mystery. Root is a crap captain.
They’re both going to score 400 here.
I think we need to move beyond the automatic grooming of our best batsman for captaincy. I know it's not necessarily a new thing, but pretty much every one of our 21st century captains has been chosen that way, and then we wonder what went wrong.I agree but the centrally contracted players simply don't play enough red ball cricket to ever learn the art of captaincy. Of the current county championship captains only Rory Burns is in the Test side. The only other remotely feasible alternatives are Dawid Malan, James Vince and maybe Sam Northeast.
Our most successful captain (statistically) of recent years has been Strauss and he only got the job after the KP fiasco.
I think we need to move beyond the automatic grooming of our best batsman for captaincy. I know it's not necessarily a new thing, but pretty much every one of our 21st century captains has been chosen that way, and then we wonder what went wrong.I agree but the centrally contracted players simply don't play enough red ball cricket to ever learn the art of captaincy. Of the current county championship captains only Rory Burns is in the Test side. The only other remotely feasible alternatives are Dawid Malan, James Vince and maybe Sam Northeast.
Our most successful captain (statistically) of recent years has been Strauss and he only got the job after the KP fiasco.
So if not Root who?
Much as I hate them, you have admired their grit and determination. The balance and momentum should have shifted towards England with the brilliance of Stokes in the last test but the Aussies have dug in superbly and it will take something pretty special to win this test. We need several quick and early wickets tomorrow morning.
I'd rather have a top captain who averages 25 than pick a guy averaging 60, expect him to do a job, and see his batting suffer anyway (as seems inevitable).
Brearley is an obvious example but I also think about Fleming, who helped to completely transform cricket in NZ.
Need to get Smith out for sub 300-320
Need to get them out for sub 300-320
Fucking boo
Session 2 and 3 have been the worst Field sessions for England in this series so far.
Woakes has been badly treated. He's had 10 days off and I'm sure he'd have come back refreshed. His batting is also way better than Overton's. Root is a poor captain.Nah, dropping him was the right call and Overton did at least as well if not better than the other bowlers.
Denly continues the fine example of our openers.It was such a poor decision to shove him up the order. Drop Roy, pick Sibley was the blindingly obvious choice.
Have to say that Old Trafford looks a right mess. A real hotch potch of a ground. No symmetry to the stadium.
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
None at home.
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?First day against Ireland.
How many days during the last 5 years can you sum up Englands display as fecking rubbish?
None at home.
Oh I don’t know. We’ve had some great moments, but we’ve had some shocking days at home as well as away. There needs to be a real re-focus on Test cricket.
This thread is interestingly quiet was everyone just really scared of giving them the mockers?
Burns gone after a good day for him and a useful 81.
Let's see how Roy does down at 4 and if Root can convert to a big ton from here.
Root again fails to convert a start.
Root is so frustrating
I don’t hold much hope on avoiding the follow on, even if they don’t enforce it as is the modern trend. The new ball is due in about 7 overs and fresh Aussies bowlers with a new ball will trouble our lower middle order.
I don’t hold much hope on avoiding the follow on, even if they don’t enforce it as is the modern trend. The new ball is due in about 7 overs and fresh Aussies bowlers with a new ball will trouble our lower middle order.
What the hell is up with Jofra Archers attitude in this test match? Jogs in to bowl 82mph, doesn't look interested fielding and nearly gets himself run out first ball by not bothering to run.
Brilliant talent undeniably, but he needs to cut this shit out and quick.
Warne making the same moronic point as Vaughan did now about giving it out because the batting team have a review left.
Jof has his pace up and looks a real threat.
It also sends the message of surrender.
Root gone as well. Brilliant delivery, but this team has been poor at Test cricket for far too long.Come on now, we beat India 4-1 last summer. We beat Sri Lanka away 3-0 in the winter. There are good results and performances but we have to acknowledge that Australia are a far stronger team than us. In particular they've got the world's best batsman in the form of his life, a surplus of high quality quicks and an off-spinner who has taken 300+ wickets. On top of that we're missing our best bowler.
If we had a half decent top order we’d have been tough to beat at home. Smith aside, this Australian side isn’t all that. But we’ve the poorest top 4 in living memory and our all time leading wicket taker missing.You don't rate Hazlewood, Lyon and Cummins?
We just good enough.
No team has ever won the next test series after winning the one day world cup. I think all our focus has been on that. It also fell in the period of losing Cook Trott and Bell. No of whom would have played in that.
So we have gone into this without Cook and Anderson our top run scorer and wicket taker.
I think most of our players look knackered.
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
I think this attack is better than Johnson and Harris. Less likely to blow you away with 7fer, but more relentless and consistent. And Labuschagne is clearly real class. Other than that though I do agree with your point - but I also wouldn't understate the effect of Smith. He's a monster.
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
I think this attack is better than Johnson and Harris. Less likely to blow you away with 7fer, but more relentless and consistent. And Labuschagne is clearly real class. Other than that though I do agree with your point - but I also wouldn't understate the effect of Smith. He's a monster.
If Smith was English we would be winning this series, other than him the two sides are fairly evenly matched
Good knock from Joe Denly
Can't agree that Roy was unlucky he got bowled through the gate again showing a poor technique.
The point about Denly was in no way to blame him. Yes of course Burns, Root and Stokes are all more at fault for their low scores. It was just a general point about England batsmen being satisfied getting those sort of scores, when generally they are not match defining.
There's more difference between these teams than Smith. Lets not forget if not for a freak innings from Stokes, we would have lost the last test comfortably, and that was without Smith in their side. The other big difference after Smith has been the drop of in quality of the change bowlers. They have had the likes of Pattinson, Siddle and Starc to call on after the opening bowlers, whereas we have had Woakes (bowling poorly), Stokes (bowling poorly apart from 2nd innings at Headingly) and Craig Overton (not test quality)
You make a more than valid point about other teams issues, but what I would counter that with is that Australia are away from home. Their top order doesn't struggle like this in Australia, whereas our top order can't perform in their own conditions.
I’d be inclined to drop Bairtstow. He’s not delivering the bat, and he’s not the best keeper. He needs runs to keep his place.
This ball changing is ridiculous. You’re telling me that this ball is equivalent to a 60 over old ball? Fuck off.
I’d be inclined to drop Bairtstow. He’s not delivering the bat, and he’s not the best keeper. He needs runs to keep his place.
Yep, Foakes should come in for sure. Also inclined to bring in Pope for Roy and possibly Sibley for Denley. And give Buttler the captaincy.
This ball is ridiculous, hooping all over the place. I repeat 60 over equivalent, fuck off.
Terrible from third umpire Overton smashed that into his pad and he was obsessed by ultra edge.
This ball changing is ridiculous. You’re telling me that this ball is equivalent to a 60 over old ball? Fuck off.
Useless fucking umpire! Obvious that the ball hit bat first onto pad!
This ball is ridiculous, hooping all over the place. I repeat 60 over equivalent, fuck off.
Terrible from third umpire Overton smashed that into his pad and he was obsessed by ultra edge.
That was shocking that he needed to go to ball tracking on that one. The ball went sideways off Overton's bat into his pad.
Sorry Paul, but I do think being 2-1 down after this match (barring a bigger miracle than Headingley) flatters us, and is not reflective of the overall difference in the teams.
They have been on top with the ball pretty much every time they have bowled. Broad has been excellent, Archer very good (except for a poor 1st innings this match), but after that we've had nothing. It's not just Smith who has done well against our change bowlers, we haven't looked like getting Labuschagne out cheaply either. You of course make a valid point about Anderson being out, but we can't put an asterisk by the whole series. The fact remains that the bowling attacks we have had haven't been as good as theirs.
I do think a lot of our players are satisfied with 40s and 50s as they know it pretty much keeps them in the team. There doesn't seem to be the hunger to go on and on that players like Trott had, Strauss had and Cook had. Look at Root, who is a technically brilliant player, but has only got 16 hundreds despite passing fifty 60 times. Root has the ability to play a lot more match defining innings than he does. He needs to have the captaincy taken away after this series and hopefully just concentrating on his batting can turn that around.
I know Australia have lost series at home (having players banned against India didn't help), and in fairness we win most at home. However, our batting malaise even at home has been going on for years.
Yes I do but they’ll always have a good attack. Compare this attack to McGrath, Warne, Lee era or Johnson, Harris, Lyon. Then look at their batting, how many tests would Warner (in this form), Harris, Bancroft, Head, Laberscagne and Wade played in previous era’s - not many. That’s is their top order excluding Smith.
I think this attack is better than Johnson and Harris. Less likely to blow you away with 7fer, but more relentless and consistent. And Labuschagne is clearly real class. Other than that though I do agree with your point - but I also wouldn't understate the effect of Smith. He's a monster.
If Smith was English we would be winning this series, other than him the two sides are fairly evenly matched
I'd disagree. Their bowling attack has been far more consistent throughout. Once Broad and Archer come out the attack its easy against the change bowlers.
I’d be inclined to drop Bairtstow. He’s not delivering the bat, and he’s not the best keeper. He needs runs to keep his place.
Yep, Foakes should come in for sure. Also inclined to bring in Pope for Roy and possibly Sibley for Denley. And give Buttler the captaincy.
I'd agree on that, I think Buttler is a good captain and it would give him more justification as a speciallist batsman at 7.
Sorry Paul, but I do think being 2-1 down after this match (barring a bigger miracle than Headingley) flatters us, and is not reflective of the overall difference in the teams.
They have been on top with the ball pretty much every time they have bowled. Broad has been excellent, Archer very good (except for a poor 1st innings this match), but after that we've had nothing. It's not just Smith who has done well against our change bowlers, we haven't looked like getting Labuschagne out cheaply either. You of course make a valid point about Anderson being out, but we can't put an asterisk by the whole series. The fact remains that the bowling attacks we have had haven't been as good as theirs.
I do think a lot of our players are satisfied with 40s and 50s as they know it pretty much keeps them in the team. There doesn't seem to be the hunger to go on and on that players like Trott had, Strauss had and Cook had. Look at Root, who is a technically brilliant player, but has only got 16 hundreds despite passing fifty 60 times. Root has the ability to play a lot more match defining innings than he does. He needs to have the captaincy taken away after this series and hopefully just concentrating on his batting can turn that around.
I know Australia have lost series at home (having players banned against India didn't help), and in fairness we win most at home. However, our batting malaise even at home has been going on for years.
Again, look at the stats of the series, Take the top 2 for each team out and they lose a hell of a lot more than we do. We've had a fair number of not quite good enough performances and only really Stokes who's stepped up above that, they've had Smith and to an extent Labuschange do the same. Both teams have been on top with the ball for most of the series, we had a couple of poor sessions in the first game and in this one, they had 1 last match, so on balance they've been marginally ahead with bat and ball across the series, which is reflected by the state of the series. Again, fine margins between 2 sides that are struggling with finding batsmen who can play test match innings with any regularity.
If Stokes in Leeds is masking problems (which it is) then Smith is doing the same. Most of the Australian batsmen have struggled to score anything more than about 30 as well, are they satisfied and knowing they're safe?
Final point, I've never suggested that there should be a asterisk against the series, but you seem to have suggested Aus should get one for the India series literally 2 paragraphs later. All I'm saying is that test cricket has global problems, trying to make out we're in a much worse state than anyone else isn't fair and runs the risk of us abandoning the things that are ok about our setup on the basis that everything is fucked, which isn't the case.
Those Aussie fans all in the same get up look like a right bunch of c***s.Very few below middle age as well, I noticed that when they were in Brum. Like an antipodean Brexit Party.
Those Aussie fans all in the same get up look like a right bunch of c***s.Yeah, stupid sport fans all wearing the same thing to the match.
Disappointing but Smith was the difference between the sides, as he has been all series. We've not once been able to get him early and plough on into the ropey middle order. Even we when just attacked the other end, eventually Siddle and Lyon stuck with him and set up the win at Edgbaston.
Bairstow, Roy and Buttler (despite getting some runs in this Test match) must be dropped. Root needs to give up captaincy for two reasons. He's an atrociously reactive captain and not very good at that and the impact on his batting has been terrible.
However there are two very poor Test teams and one is winning because of one man.
Bairstow, Roy and Buttler (despite getting some runs in this Test match) must be dropped. Root needs to give up captaincy for two reasons. He's an atrociously reactive captain and not very good at that and the impact on his batting has been terrible.
However there are two very poor Test teams and one is winning because of one man.
I'm not sure we can call Australia a poor team, they can take their pick of 3 seamers from world class options in Cummins (best bowler in the world), Hazelwood, Starc and Pattinson. They have the best batsman in the world, David Warner has been great over the years but is terrible in English conditions (against Broad mainly).
I'd say we have bigger problems given the ages of Broad and Anderson and our flaky batting options.
Excellent piece on cricinfo: https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27571263/england-not-good-think-are
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
Did you mean you WOULDN'T recall Moeen or Anderson, as you said you would, then omitted both from your squad! ;)
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.Interesting. Who bats at 3?
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
For me there needs to be a new broom action once Bayliss is replaced. Of the current side I leave out Denly, Roy and Bairstow. I also would recall Moeen or Jimmy.Interesting. Who bats at 3?
Burns, Sibley and Crawley as openers.
Root, Pope, Foakes, Stokes, Buttler as the middle order.
Leach and Crane as spinners.
Broad, Woakes, Archer, Stone and Curran as the quicks.
That's a 14 man squad with plenty of younger players and a handful of experienced players to bring them along. It's harsh on Jimmy, who has been a fantastic servant but he's the past now. I've tried to avoid adding anyone who hasn't either been around the squad or heavily mentioned as an option with Crane being my wildcard because I really like legspin as a game changer.
Bairstow, Roy and Buttler (despite getting some runs in this Test match) must be dropped. Root needs to give up captaincy for two reasons. He's an atrociously reactive captain and not very good at that and the impact on his batting has been terrible.
However there are two very poor Test teams and one is winning because of one man.
Pope's middle order. Crawley's an opener. We're going to end up with a square peg in a round hole again.
ETA Those are the right players but we do need someone with lots of first class experience at 3. I'd be tempted to have another look at Gary Ballance. He's still only 29. 5 tons this season, nearly 1000 runs. Higher Test average than anyone currently in the Test team except Root.
Pope's middle order. Crawley's an opener. We're going to end up with a square peg in a round hole again.
ETA Those are the right players but we do need someone with lots of first class experience at 3. I'd be tempted to have another look at Gary Ballance. He's still only 29. 5 tons this season, nearly 1000 runs. Higher Test average than anyone currently in the Test team except Root.
I'm not sure there is anyone, that's the why Root got moved up.
Exactly. Ballance has got some experience but then his last 10 test scores were:
8, 17, 1, 9, 9, 5, 20, 34, 27, 4
For an average of 13.
In his last 13 tests, he only got two scores over 50. Could be worth another go as his early form for England was great, but not the best of squads to be coming back into.
I don't think Buttler warrants dropping yet. He showed that he's learning from his errors today, and that's something to build on.He is keeping his place as a specialist batsman nothing else and as such he has not delivered.n However I do concede that he is not the biggest problem in the team.
Farbrace doing his usual high level of punditry:Quite. Farbrace is all things to all men. Full of bluster and zero substance whenever he speaks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49631592
So Root should be captain because he’s the best player and his decline in batting is just the way it is for captains.
Well Paul perhaps you would consider what Root’s value is to the side. Do we get more from him averaging 50+ or from being captain? Think I know the answer.
Exactly. Ballance has got some experience but then his last 10 test scores were:
8, 17, 1, 9, 9, 5, 20, 34, 27, 4
For an average of 13.
In his last 13 tests, he only got two scores over 50. Could be worth another go as his early form for England was great, but not the best of squads to be coming back into.
Point taken but that was 2 years ago. I think in the absence of virtually anyone else, he's got to be worth a look at 3.
Farbrace doing his usual high level of punditry:Quite. Farbrace is all things to all men. Full of bluster and zero substance whenever he speaks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49631592
So Root should be captain because he’s the best player and his decline in batting is just the way it is for captains.
Well Paul perhaps you would consider what Root’s value is to the side. Do we get more from him averaging 50+ or from being captain? Think I know the answer.
What price is he for the next England Coach in that case!! I hope not. I want a world class coach.So do I and I'd prefer it to be someone who isn't already working for the ECB. Some fresh ideas are what's required.
Whoever it is I hope they can sort out the ECB,(England's Clueless Batsmen).What price is he for the next England Coach in that case!! I hope not. I want a world class coach.So do I and I'd prefer it to be someone who isn't already working for the ECB. Some fresh ideas are what's required.
Whoever it is I hope they can sort out the ECB,(England's Clueless Batsmen).What price is he for the next England Coach in that case!! I hope not. I want a world class coach.So do I and I'd prefer it to be someone who isn't already working for the ECB. Some fresh ideas are what's required.
Ballance is not worth a shot for me, for previous mentioned reasons. If I were calling up a previous player I’d look at Ben Duckett. He’s a talent who was called up too early.If we're talking about attitude, Duckett is a grade A dickhead.
Exactly. Ballance has got some experience but then his last 10 test scores were:
8, 17, 1, 9, 9, 5, 20, 34, 27, 4
For an average of 13.
In his last 13 tests, he only got two scores over 50. Could be worth another go as his early form for England was great, but not the best of squads to be coming back into.
Point taken but that was 2 years ago. I think in the absence of virtually anyone else, he's got to be worth a look at 3.
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Convicted woman-beater.
In France, article 9 of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen 1789, which has force as constitutional law, begins: "Any man being presumed innocent until he has been declared guilty ...". The Code of Criminal Procedure states in its preliminary article that "any person suspected or prosecuted is presumed innocent for as long as their guilt has not been established"[14] and the jurors' oath repeats this assertion (article 304).[29] However, there exists a popular misconception that under French law, the accused is presumed guilty until proven innocent.[30]
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Convicted woman-beater.
I heard the R4 interview and he stated that that in France you are presumed guilty and not innocent unlike here?
Does anyone know if this is correct?
Arise Sir Sir Geoffrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/49641823
Having one of his friends as the resigning PM was the only way Geoffrey was going to get a Knighthood
Great cricketer, knowledgeable broadcaster.......utter nobhead
Convicted woman-beater.
I heard the R4 interview and he stated that that in France you are presumed guilty and not innocent unlike here?
Does anyone know if this is correct?
Pretty poor from the interviewer if they allowed Boycott's erroneous statement to go unchallenged. However, that's about standard for Radio 4 these days.
Weird selections at the moment. Don’t entirely disagree with what they’ve done, but it’s a bit 90s. Overton gets one game and is dropped. They move Roy to 4, he starts to show signs of improvement and is dropped. Like I say it’s not that the specific selection for this game is wrong, but it suggests muddled thinking.
Burns has been one of the relative bright spots of the series. Four good first innings totals now, and looks like he's developing into a proper test opener. Just needs a reliable partner now.
Bowled in the same way as he has been a few times in the series.
Not moving his feet and stuck in the crease. Makes the ball look a lot better than it actually is.
Root looks shot mentally. Should have been out 3 times before he was. Captaincy has to be taken away from him.
I know he's only just come into the team, but why has Curran just played his innings like its the last 5 overs of an ODI?
This is fucking Blues again from England.
Ask Andrew Strauss to take over as Coach. Jimmy as bowling coach.
Middle order fuckery once again. They've been so poor that the top three is no longer the weak link. Stokes is not a Test number 4 and on current form Bairstow is not a number 5. Trouble is that those two plus Buttler (if he was keeping wicket) are natural number 7s for me, coming in behind 6 specialist batsmen, followed by the four bowlers. Stokes could job a job at 6 I suppose but I'd prefer him lurking at 7.
I'd go
1. Burns
2. Sibley
3. ? (I'd try Ballance here but I know some of you disagree)
4. Root
5. Pope
6. Foakes / Stokes
7. Stokes / Foakes
8. Curran / Woakes
9. Archer
10. Leach
11. Broad
Bright sunny day, road of a pitch.
How the hell are we going to get Smith out on this?
Sorry, I think thats utter bollocks.
I don't think Warner was anywhere near that.
I think there needs to be a review of hawkeye, there's been 4-5 iffy ones so far.
I thought the Bairstow one yesterday was questionable, if you watch how much the ball swung there's no chance it was clattering middle and leg, it was probably out but i think it was clipping leg, hawkeye seemed to suggest ball was going to straighten again and I do wonder if it was because it was pad onto bat.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/11807905/bairstow-goes-lbw (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/11807905/bairstow-goes-lbw)
As I say I think it would've hit the stumps but the path just looks wrong to me and I can understand why Bairstow reviewed.
Aside from that, 2 wickets already and the ball was doing loads for Marsh so I'm not sure our score was as bad as some are suggesting, as has been the case all summer it depends on Smith, if he digs them out of a hole again then our score looks poor.
Disappointing from Woakes again.
Disappointing from Woakes again.
He's not be at his best or close to it since the first day of the series.
Maybe he has been carrying a knock, or just ineffective when there is a lack of movement. His test record abroad in flatter conditions probably suggests the latter.
Disappointing from Woakes again.
He's not be at his best or close to it since the first day of the series.
Maybe he has been carrying a knock, or just ineffective when there is a lack of movement. His test record abroad in flatter conditions probably suggests the latter.
Yes I think it's a bit of both. He was unplayable against Ireland but since then has been mediocre at best. He's suffered more than anyone from the general lack of swing this series, which make you wonder how well Anderson would have done.
Anderson has become a bowler for all conditions though. He was excellent last time down under, and the very least he will offer is impeccable control when its not swinging.True.
Steve Smith has now scored 751 runs at an average of 125.16 and has batted 1,854 minutes, just short of 31 hours.OK bit still wouldn’t pay money to watch his ugly batting but would love him to be in my side.
I'm not sure, was our batting performance as bad as is being suggested? We had a collapse in the middle order but so have they and in both cases a swing bowler with an ageing ball has done a lot of damage. I know the shots look poor but I wonder if there's something in the pitch which is making it harder to judge than it appears on the TV, particularly for people who aren't in great form.
What on earth was that decision from Dharmasena? Clearly pitching outside leg and probably going over the top by half a metre. Really poor decision.
Denly got a big life thanks to a dolly of a drop from Harris too. Interesting 15 minutes that was.
That was an eventful few overs and we negotiated them without losing a wicket.
If we can bat well tomorrow then a lead of 250 plus will be a tough ask for them. 250 is a minimum but I’d like 300 plus*
* Yes I know
Buttler has ended this series well. Bairstow is massively under pressure now.
I was happy once we hit 350. There's a reason that 350+ has only been chased a handful of times in history.
I was happy once we hit 350. There's a reason that 350+ has only been chased a handful of times in history.
If they didn't have Smith, I'd agree. I just don't trust him not to hit 300 on his own.
I think Jofra Archer may be destined for the number 11 spot. I know it's early in his career but I see nothing in him worth putting him further up the order as yet. This tail has to wag a bit. Need a 400 hundred lead. Even if it's just for psychology.
I think that once they retained the Ashes they were mentally on the plane home so I expect us to win this test quite comfortably.
I think that once they retained the Ashes they were mentally on the plane home so I expect us to win this test quite comfortably.
Nah, don't buy that at all. Monumental difference in merely retaining the Ashes and Australia actually winning a series in England for the 1st time in 18 years. They would have been well up for this.
I'm sure that's what they say and most probably believe it but I'd be amazed if they hadn't dropped the intensity a little, subconsciously, with the Ashes safe. They dropped five catches in the first innings.I think that once they retained the Ashes they were mentally on the plane home so I expect us to win this test quite comfortably.
Nah, don't buy that at all. Monumental difference in merely retaining the Ashes and Australia actually winning a series in England for the 1st time in 18 years. They would have been well up for this.
There performance has dropped, but I just cannot have it that it's due to a lack of intensity or because the ashes have been retained. What it may be, is that they did bowl a lot of overs, over the last couple of days at Old Trafford, and then bowled straight away at the Oval, so physical fatigue may have set in a little. We were definitely helped by a poor decision by Paine to bowl first in this match.
Actually winning a series in England, after such a long time would be crucial for them to achieve. Lose this match, and they will be reminded in 2023 that they haven't won a series in England in 22 years.
Surely part of his boot was touching the line there?Has to be something behind the line.
I do feel better about it all than I did last week. There's plenty wrong but plenty to look back on and be pleased. And as Botham just said.....18 years.
It depends who they replace Gower and Botham with. Gower is one of a dying breed, calm, understated, knowledgeable and literate. I'm not so keen on Botham but one only has to listen 5Live lately to fear that noise, hyperbole, barking ignorance and worst of all, banter are on the agenda.
Let's hope TMS continues to resist such claptrap.
Gower did do a little bit of third man this game, but in the main you're right. He and, especially, Botham are not natural analysts or deep thinkers about the game. Atherton and Hussian are the two gems in that commentary box, although Ponting has also been great to listen to this summer, he always spots something. Warne and Bumble have both become boring.It depends who they replace Gower and Botham with. Gower is one of a dying breed, calm, understated, knowledgeable and literate. I'm not so keen on Botham but one only has to listen 5Live lately to fear that noise, hyperbole, barking ignorance and worst of all, banter are on the agenda.
Let's hope TMS continues to resist such claptrap.
Atherton and Hussain offer much more insight than Gower or Botham. Have you noticed that neither Botham or Gower never did the third man/analyst role in the commentary box? That suggests that they weren’t prepared to move with the times.
I like Ian Ward and think that he’s a natural replacement for Gower. I think Holding is leaving too which will leave a huge hole. However they have some great “pundits”, Warne and Ponting have been brilliant.
Lots of deficiencies in the Test set up that need addressing, but a drawn Ashes series to put alongside the World Cup is a pretty decent international summer when you consider some of the dross served up in the late 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s.
2-2 is probably about right - after all if Lord's hadn't been so weather affected we'd probably have won there. Stokes' brilliant rescue act at Headingley notwithstanding, Smith was the difference between the two sides and his absence in that Test probably is the reason they haven't won the urn outright.
I agree on Ward, gutted that Holding is leaving, his lagubriuos, laid back style perfectly compliments the more enthusiastic contributions from the Australians. I don't mind Ponting but Warne annoys me a bit for no obvious reason.
I hope it doesn't end up like the 20/20 coverage, particularly finals day which is not my sort of thing at all.
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Stokes
Moeen
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson
That would be my team for the first test of the New Zealand series. There are no test championship points at play, so an opportunity to give the likes of Sibley, Crawley and Pope a real chance. Obviously the Moeen selection depends a lot on his latter season form and state of mind.
Edit. Just realised there is no keeper in this team! Maybe Buttler for Curran and move Moeen down to 8
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Stokes
Moeen
Curran
Archer
Broad
Anderson
That would be my team for the first test of the New Zealand series. There are no test championship points at play, so an opportunity to give the likes of Sibley, Crawley and Pope a real chance. Obviously the Moeen selection depends a lot on his latter season form and state of mind.
Edit. Just realised there is no keeper in this team! Maybe Buttler for Curran and move Moeen down to 8
Pope has played keeper a fair bit.
Pleasing not to have lost the series but this Aussie side, Smith apart, has been rescued by their bowling and England's frailty with the bat. A really enjoyable series to watch, although neither side reaches the heights of sides gone by. Burns and Denly seem to be settling and should keep their places squadwise. I hope that someone gets hold of Archer and makes him a more ruthless and hungry bowler. Hopefully, Wood and Stone are fit to select for the NZ tour.
Didn't realise Channel 5 highlights are also ending....I like that team of Mark Nicholas, Vaughan and Sir Geo...... sorry Boycott.
I know BBC are showing the Hundred but who's showing the home test highlights from next year?
I'm struggling to conceive of anything that English cricket needs less right now than The Hundred. Blindfolds for batsmen maybe? Alcoholic drinks breaks?
The Hundred strikes me as being as much use to the county championship and England Test team as the Atari Soccer Sixes were to the League Championship and England football team in the 80s. I mean, Blues won it which shows how unlikely it was to impact the pinnacle of the game.
I'd definitely rather watch Monkey Cricket than The shitty Hundred.
I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
He walked out of Somerset because the board thought Viv and Joel Garner were under-performing on big money and they wanted to bring in Martin Crowe. The skipper Peter Roebuck sided with the board and it all went tits up. Botham quit in solidarity but not before pinning a 'Judas' sign on Roebuck's locker. It's fair to say Botham has a 'my way or the highway' approach to life.I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
I've said this before, but he seems a contradictory character. On the surface he's indeed boorish, the sort of "I can do whatever I like but God help the little woman if she so much as looks at another man and my dinner better be ready when I get home" dinosaur that thought Alf Garnett was the greatest comic creation of all time and believed civilization ended on New Year's Eve 1979. But, he walked out of Somerset when his mate Viv was being abused, refused to play in South Africa and the charidee work he does can't be knocked at all.
I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
I can't stand Ian Botham. He's always struck me a boorish bully. Saw him at a sportsman's dinner about 10 years ago when he was the main speaker. He was shit, could hardly string a coherent sentence together and while you'd expect him to have a string of interesting anecdotes, they were all poor. I also got the impression that he doesn't like Gower very much in real life, and on numerous occasions dropped not very subtle hints that Gower had a huge coke problem.
His insight is very one-dimensional, but we saw him on a speaking tour about 20 years ago and he was very funny (unless, of course, you're a Geoff Boycott fasn).
Experimental squad for NZ, Bairstow dropped for Tests. I’m surprised Foakes isn’t in.
Sarah Taylor has retired from International cricket. She has suffered a lot with anxiety issues over the last few years. Big loss for England. Second highest England run scorer, Played in the Australian version of division two for a mens team. And regarded by many male Internationals and pundits as the best keeper in the world either sex. Regarded by all who play womens cricket as the best keeper ever.
So long Sarah hope you get better.
I like Malan and I’d like to see him back in the Test squad.
Nice knocks from Sibley and Crawley in England's warm up game.
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
I think there’s no doubt that Jimmy will get back into the test team, looking at the current line up he would replace Curran. I expect to see a fit again Jimmy opening the bowling on Boxing Day at Centurion.
Curran is the future but I think that for now, if he stays fit then he will continue until the end of the next Ashes series in 2021/2022. He reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, a natural athlete with longevity.
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
I think there’s no doubt that Jimmy will get back into the test team, looking at the current line up he would replace Curran. I expect to see a fit again Jimmy opening the bowling on Boxing Day at Centurion.
Curran is the future but I think that for now, if he stays fit then he will continue until the end of the next Ashes series in 2021/2022. He reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, a natural athlete with longevity.
Agree Jimmy plays when fit, but taking Curran or Woakes out makes the tail quite long. Having Woakes or Curran at 8 does give a good balance to the side, but I suppose you have to put trust that the top 7 can score runs on a regular basis.
Pretty much the same team again for this game. Really like the look of it to be honest, but just wondering where (and maybe if) Anderson will fit in.
I think there’s no doubt that Jimmy will get back into the test team, looking at the current line up he would replace Curran. I expect to see a fit again Jimmy opening the bowling on Boxing Day at Centurion.
Curran is the future but I think that for now, if he stays fit then he will continue until the end of the next Ashes series in 2021/2022. He reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, a natural athlete with longevity.
Agree Jimmy plays when fit, but taking Curran or Woakes out makes the tail quite long. Having Woakes or Curran at 8 does give a good balance to the side, but I suppose you have to put trust that the top 7 can score runs on a regular basis.
I heard Root say that the England management are speaking to Mo Ali about a return to the test team. If you take out Leech for Ali, Anderson's return for Curran works. Appreciate Leach has reached almost cult status but from what I saw over the summer i would be very surprised if he ripped a team apart bowling-wise and if Ali has sorted himself out mentally then it would be a good move.
Disappointed to see Curran picked ahead of Woakes for this test. I would guess Pope and Bairstow are fighting for the number six spot, as Denley seems to be growing into the number 3 role.
Waking up to a score of 400 tomorrow would be very pleasing.
Bit of a boring run rate. What happened to the England of the 2000s that would try to get 350-400 on the first day when they were on top?
There’s not a lot here, but equally why isn’t Archer bowling the new ball first up? There’s no excuse for England to get rolled here.
I’m jealous LS, watching a Test in NZ is on my bucket list. That ground looks just lovely.Sorry only just seen this - it is an impressive set up and they seem to do most stuff right here eg: free in tomorrow / hardly any queues for beer or food and players happy to stop and chat.
On cricket another poor day however time for Root to save this Test match tomorrow. If he can't do that on a still fairly flat wicket than there is no point in him carrying on in either capacity.
Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
I’m not sure what’s happened to Root in the last few years. I look at the way Smith, Williamson, and Kohli, who’s just gone to 41 centuries, have kicked on and Joe has gone backwards if anything. It’s strange.
Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
Full bar and catering facilities with zero queues for 5 days. A live band and big screen in the food court area for those wishing to escape another England batting collapse. Clean and plentiful toilets. Access to the pitch every lunchtime to stroll around and get a close up of the wicket. Kids allowed on the outfield with bat and ball. Allowed to walk on the pitch itself post match. Free sunscreen at any time. £15 per day and free today. Give me that over a soulless concrete stadium / pissed up groups throwing beer to make snakes / queuing for a drink of over-priced lager any day of the week.Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
It's like a school playing field with people sat on the banks on deck chairs! I've seen village greens with more facilities than that.
Full bar and catering facilities with zero queues for 5 days. A live band and big screen in the food court area for those wishing to escape another England batting collapse. Clean and plentiful toilets. Access to the pitch every lunchtime to stroll around and get a close up of the wicket. Kids allowed on the outfield with bat and ball. Allowed to walk on the pitch itself post match. Free sunscreen at any time. £15 per day and free today. Give me that over a soulless concrete stadium / pissed up groups throwing beer to make snakes / queuing for a drink of over-priced lager any day of the week.Sorry, but that ground doesn't look like a proper Test Match arena.Please explain why?
It's like a school playing field with people sat on the banks on deck chairs! I've seen village greens with more facilities than that.
Buttler doubtful for the 2nd Test
Pope to keep wicket if necessary
Crawley or Woakes would probably play
Foakes, Bairstow and Buttler all keepers of international class who have scored Test match 100's yet we are going into a test match with a keeper that hat has never taken a first class stumping. Not a brilliant piece of planning by England management I suggest. Good job the pitch is unlikely to turn.
Crawley in for Buttler makes sense and i would probably drop either Broad or Curran playing Woakes instead. Leach might at least offer some semblance of control .... did I really say that!
I don’t get why Foakes isn’t there.As he is clearly our best keeper/batsman it must be something else.
Flat pitch, ordinary bowling (Archer with yet another spell in second gear. What’s the point?) one wicket, donated by a rotten shot.
I’m off to bed in the hope I reverse jinx things and Woakes rips them apart.
Flat pitch, ordinary bowling (Archer with yet another spell in second gear. What’s the point?) one wicket, donated by a rotten shot.You need to go to bed again and again tonight.
I’m off to bed in the hope I reverse jinx things and Woakes rips them apart.
Not looking good. What is going on with Jof?
Well done Burns and Root, that was a properly good effort. We need to try and go past them and hope rain doesn’t ruin it.
Shit today,pure shit. Again.
The whole tour has been a bit of a non-event. I’ve struggled to find any enthusiasm for it.
From what I understand there's a bit of a bug going around the camp, the result of which means England are playing a really bizarre line up:
Burns, Sibley, Denly, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Bairstow, Crawley, Curran, Woakes.
Currently 120/2 with Sibley(22) and Burns(56) gone and Denly(28*) and Root(9*) at the crease.
Another one where Sibley hasn'y got a big score but has seen out the first 20 overs (well nearly). Personally I'm happy with that but I do worry that England will look to replace him for not getting a big score if it doesn't come in the next few matches which I think would be a mistake.
Archer has been poor so far, which is frustrating, he's the bowler we want firing when things get a bit flat like this.
England's batsmen are shit.
Why isn't Archer bowling? The ball is getting softer. Root baffles me at times with his captaincy.
So Burns out of the Test after injuring ankle playing football. I do wonder why they do it.
Giles has banned the football now. Too bloody right.
Another start and out.
We’ll likely do our normal thing here and subside to a score of 250-330.
And another...
Is it just our country that is full of w@n£ers ? Just spent a (largely) pleasant day on the grass bank at Cape Town until late afternoon when the beer obviously kicked in and snakes / throwing glasses / standing / football chants took over. Any request to respect fellow supporters - or even simply move so they can watch the live action - gets met with a mouthful of obscenities and threats of violence. Don’t recall seeing these tossers in NZ or other such less accessible tours. Embarrassing and disappointing.Totally agree Lsvilla. I witnessed some disgraceful scenes today including two England fans fighting with each other, beer being spilled on ground staff as groups of England fans dance around them goading them to sing and other incidents resembling worst aspect of some football fans.
We do seem to have a disproportionate number of utter dimwits.
Is it just our country that is full of w@n£ers ? Just spent a (largely) pleasant day on the grass bank at Cape Town until late afternoon when the beer obviously kicked in and snakes / throwing glasses / standing / football chants took over. Any request to respect fellow supporters - or even simply move so they can watch the live action - gets met with a mouthful of obscenities and threats of violence. Don’t recall seeing these tossers in NZ or other such less accessible tours. Embarrassing and disappointing.Totally agree Lsvilla. I witnessed some disgraceful scenes today including two England fans fighting with each other, beer being spilled on ground staff as groups of England fans dance around them goading them to sing and other incidents resembling worst aspect of some football fans.
Early days, but I’m not seeing a whole lot of improvement under Silverwood. We are making exactly the same mistakes.
Also how the hell is Foakes not in this side? I just don’t get it.
We are in a transitional phase in test cricket and so as a result we really needed to appoint a coach with patience, vision and skills. Instead we signalled that we were carrying on regardless with the appointment of Silverwood. A county trundler to international coach is an underwhelming appointment. The players are too comfortable and a culture of mediocrity seems to be the norm.
We have to accept that the next couple of years will be barren where we win the odd test at home but are a long way from where we want to be.
Undoubtedly the global focus on white ball cricket over the last ten years or so has lead to a reduction in Test quality across all international sides but we seem to be hindered more than most. I was thrilled to win the CWC last year but like most on here I think red ball cricket is the purest form of the game and I’d much rather see an England team dominating red ball cricket than white ball cricket. Unfortunately money talks and white ball cricket is where the money is.
So Mr Giles, you lack guts and vision. Appointing Silverwood is akin to Villa appointing Graham Turner and we know where that ended up.
We are in a transitional phase in test cricket and so as a result we really needed to appoint a coach with patience, vision and skills. Instead we signalled that we were carrying on regardless with the appointment of Silverwood. A county trundler to international coach is an underwhelming appointment. The players are too comfortable and a culture of mediocrity seems to be the norm.
We have to accept that the next couple of years will be barren where we win the odd test at home but are a long way from where we want to be.
Undoubtedly the global focus on white ball cricket over the last ten years or so has lead to a reduction in Test quality across all international sides but we seem to be hindered more than most. I was thrilled to win the CWC last year but like most on here I think red ball cricket is the purest form of the game and I’d much rather see an England team dominating red ball cricket than white ball cricket. Unfortunately money talks and white ball cricket is where the money is.
So Mr Giles, you lack guts and vision. Appointing Silverwood is akin to Villa appointing Graham Turner and we know where that ended up.
Agree with that mate.
Blimey, that was a collapse of Englandian proportions.
Fine day today. They’ve taken the game away from SA and they just need to grind them into the ground.
Fine day today. They’ve taken the game away from SA and they just need to grind them into the ground.
Really good day, having an opener put in the sort of knock that Sibley gave today makes a massive difference and then having the other 3 all make decent contributions around him has pushed us into a position of almost complete control. There's probably enough on the board already but with 2 full days of play to go I'd say see of the new ball and push the target to 300 and then just have fun and bat the innings out, it'd be nice going in to bowl with 400+ behind us, it's been a while since we did that to anyone away from home.
(https://i.ibb.co/SQ6YBDq/6-A1-C9-B8-E-12-EE-4-AB9-B79-C-7-E925658-DF2-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SQ6YBDq)
Sibley has bee totally competent. Let’s hope this is start of a great test career. Talk is declaring 10 overs post lunch.
Almost a perfect session for England
Anyone on here ?
(https://i.ibb.co/d7gB92f/AF49-E5-E5-40-FF-462-E-AF03-B17109-C72353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d7gB92f)
Excellent test match this, and a reason why we should not go to 4 day tests.Absolutely
5 of the best days of cricket I've been lucky enough to witness. The Barmies aren't popular in some quarters but I can tell you we had a massive influence in the final 2 sessions. A whole hour of Joe Roots Barmy Army!Must have been within touching distance of you in block H. I don’t particularly like some BA elements but no one can deny the impact of fans on this win. Are you going to PE as well?
That is now the 2 most iconic test grounds ticked off my list.
Roll on India in 2021.
Going forward, I think the basis of a decent side is beginning to come together. Just a few observations :
Hopefully Dom Sibley will take a lot of confidence from his maiden century and can go on to form a good partnership with Burns at the top of the order.
I still think Ben Foakes is the best keeper we have in the test format and should be batting at seven in the test team
In away tests on flat pitches I'm not sure the likes of Sam Curran are the best options. I liked the look of Nortje that bowled for them and I think we need someone like that who can bowl that kind of pace to compliment Broad and Anderson. We have them in Archer and Wood, and I would like to see us perhaps sacrifice some batting to include one of them.
Bess did a decent holding job, but didn't look too threatening. Hopefully Moeen Ali can recover form and confidence, as he would balance the side well batting at 8. It will be a bit controversial seeing as he has already played some tests for South Africa, but talk out here is that Simon Harmer could be English qualified soon, so could be selected. He has been one of, if not the best spinners
on the county circuit for a few seasons, but I'm not sure how comfortably that would sit really.
I fly home on Friday unfortunately. I wish I'd known you were there. We were in block H for all 5 days. Just got back from seeing the Penguins at Boulders Bay. We are at the Africa cafe tonight. Probably be bimbling around the V&A tomorrow as we have a very early flight on Friday morning.Just missed you than as we have set off in the garden route towards PE. Shark cage at Gansbaai tomorrow. Enjoy your stay.
I fly home on Friday unfortunately. I wish I'd known you were there. We were in block H for all 5 days. Just got back from seeing the Penguins at Boulders Bay. We are at the Africa cafe tonight. Probably be bimbling around the V&A tomorrow as we have a very early flight on Friday morning.Just missed you than as we have set off in the garden route towards PE. Shark cage at Gansbaai tomorrow. Enjoy your stay.
Anderson sadly out of the series with a rib injury.
Friday's flying fish day. It's also flying home day. Take me home Joe Root.😊 Every day is.....
Interesting this allowing fans onto to turf at lunch:
(https://i.ibb.co/n8hMKHY/8-E6-EA9-B8-361-A-40-D2-A721-CCB457-E749-A3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n8hMKHY)
Soft dismissal for Sibley there.Threw it away silly boy.
Solid day in the end. Need to get up to 400.
3 crucial catches dropped by Stokes and it was de Kock every time which has slowed down England’s inevitable win in this match.
Root is a more than useful option with the ball. Bowled some great stuff today.
SA all out in no time this morning, England enforce the follow on. England couldn't have wished for a better start to the day.
Joe Root unbelievably greedy and selfish this morning in the Trumpesque style.
made hard work of that last wicket, that is for sure...It was brilliant entertainment though specially Joe’s 28 runs over.
well played England
UTV
The Doc
I could agree Paul e in my weakest sentimental moment but it was not professional. Can’t see an Aussie skipper doing that specially as threat of rain was there.
if Archer comes in, who is left out? Not Wood, surely?
Aside from that I really like this opening pair, along with Burns we seem to finally have found some proper openers who are able to consistently deal with the new ball. With Denly looking more settled at 3 (and offering a decent bowling option) we're actually facing a big decision of 3 from 4 at the top now.
Ben Stokes:
(https://i.ibb.co/GpWrrX1/686-B018-F-6-DC4-4395-B5-A5-C5-EFB3-CEA8-FB.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GpWrrX1)
Very poor shots from both Root and Curran bringing SA right back into it.
Curran has too much talent with the bat to throw his wicket away in the way that he does quite often.
Very poor shots from both Root and Curran bringing SA right back into it.
Curran has too much talent with the bat to throw his wicket away in the way that he does quite often.
I'll forgive him because he's batting at 8 and he's still very young.
I don't disagree at all, i just think there are mitigating factors.
In truth I'd proabably have sent Woakes in before him given the circumstances.
Think it's time to drop Buttler now. He isn't getting runs and his keeping has been patchy in this series. That was a really poor way to get out as a partnership was building. Foakes should be given the Sri Lanka series.
Think we have a decent score if we can eke out another 20 or 30.
Brilliant 2nd half of the day.
Hopefully we can keep Mark Wood fit as him and a fired up Jofra in the same team is a great prospect.
Thought Woakes bowled beautifully and deserved more than 1 wicket. Granted its a pretty poor SA team, but poor performance in the 1st test aside, England have been very good.
SA all out and England don't enforce the follow on and bat again, currently lead with 235 for 0 wickets.
Wood has been terrific.
As a cricket fan it’s sad to see such an underwhelming South Africa side. They’ve been blessed with some fantastic players over the years, players who transcend rivalries. That said they’re making us look fantastic.....we’re not but we’re making progress.
A pretty spectacular collapse by South Africa, losing 6 for 40-odd to give England a win by 191 runs and the series 3-1.
I reckon that if the squad hadn't been decimated by illness then we may have won the first test too.
Our Chris in to bat on his 100th ODI appearance
Just about got over the line.
Some shocking fielding from England in the first t20i, we will have done well to keep the chase below 200 now.
I also don’t like Buttler as an opener. It’s much better having him coming in in the pressure situation.
I also don’t like Buttler as an opener. It’s much better having him coming in in the pressure situation.
I’d have Hales back, he must have served his punishment by now.
I still think Roy and Hales are the best openers in this format. Buttler is better at 5 or 6. Why the continued omission of Hales?
To be honest I’d be looking at Banton as an option in the top 3.
To be honest I’d be looking at Banton as an option in the top 3.
Didn't realise he was a local lad in his teens Paul and had been in the Warwicksire set up at one point.
Unlike the test side over the past couple of years, we have an abundance of choices in limited overs cricket. Despite that, I think Roy, Bairstow, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Archer and Wood is our best side in both formats of ODIs. You could argue that we might need a bigger hitter than Root at three in T20s, but I still think there is a place for that type of player.
Great for the Women's T20 World Cup that the Aussies have been upset by India in the first game.
Looks like we could go out of the T20 World Cup. A tropical storm is heading for Sydney on Thursday, and in the event of a no decision India would go through as they topped their group. Likewise SA in the other semi, though there is a chance the rain might have stopped by then.
Utterly crackers not to have a spare day available.
Game called off and England eliminated. What a farce having no reserve day.I have just been reading it’s the same for the men’s tournament later this year.
I think the farce is not having a reserve day for the semi-final, 2 days washed out and fine, go with the established rules, but there should be an attempt to get the game played if possible.Well yes they should always endeavour to play but due to whatever constraints it was clear before the tournament started that in case of no play group winners will qualify. England did not win the group so indirectly it was decided on the field of play.
I think the farce is not having a reserve day for the semi-final, 2 days washed out and fine, go with the established rules, but there should be an attempt to get the game played if possible.Well yes they should always endeavour to play but due to whatever constraints it was clear before the tournament started that in case of no play group winners will qualify. England did not win the group so indirectly it was decided on the field of play.
Three teams playing in the same match, eight players per side and some international stars - a new cricket format will make its debut in South Africa this month.
Welcome to 3TeamCricket, which will be the first live sporting event in South Africa since the nation went into coronavirus lockdown in March.
Three teams will compete for the Solidarity Cup at Centurion Park in Gauteng on 27 June to help raise funds for those involved in cricket who have suffered during the pandemic.
The Eagles are led by ex-South Africa captain AB de Villiers, pace bowler Kagiso Rabada will captain the Kingfishers and wicketkeeper Quinton de Kock takes charge of the Kites.
"This will be a game changer".
No it won't.
"This will be a game changer".
No it won't.
Michael Holding what a fucking legend.
Michael Holding what a fucking legend.
I'm working, so currently have Simon, Tuffers and Vaughan on the radio
What's 'Whispering Death' been up to ?
Here's something that I hadn't thought about......no neutral Umpires in the Tests
Here's something that I hadn't thought about......no neutral Umpires in the Tests
I don't like this.
The three reviews is because of the non-neutral umpires.Here's something that I hadn't thought about......no neutral Umpires in the Tests
I don't like this.
3 reviews as well
I'm not watching at the moment but cannot fathom why they won the toss and decided to bat? Can someone explain please?It is an odd one. I can only assume it's because it's Stokes' first Test as captain and he gone with the 'if in doubt, bat' adage. Looked a bowl first day to me. The inevitable rain breaks would be perfect for bowling our quicks in short, fast spells.
I'm not watching at the moment but cannot fathom why they won the toss and decided to bat? Can someone explain please?It is an odd one. I can only assume it's because it's Stokes' first Test as captain and he gone with the 'if in doubt, bat' adage. Looked a bowl first day to me. The inevitable rain breaks would be perfect for bowling our quicks in short, fast spells.
I'm not sure what I think about the decision to bat or the decision to leave the ball for the wicket, both look wrong in hindsight but I can see why they did it.
I'm not sure what I think about the decision to bat or the decision to leave the ball for the wicket, both look wrong in hindsight but I can see why they did it.
That ball was far to close to leave, especially as the other opener had just about escaped an appeal for LBW when not playing a shot
Off again. Looks like a longer break this time
I think you've misspelt championship winning legend in your comments there cd
Archer and Wood have been pretty poor, showing that blistering pace isn't all that important in English conditions. I think 1 or the other would've been a better decision.
Wood in particular hasn't been threatening enough for me.
Archer and Wood have been pretty poor, showing that blistering pace isn't all that important in English conditions. I think 1 or the other would've been a better decision.
Wood in particular hasn't been threatening enough for me.
Quite right. Archer has at least varied his pace but Wood has been predictable. And he's gone for a few too.
Very impressive from Burns and Sibley.
Archer and Wood have been pretty poor, showing that blistering pace isn't all that important in English conditions. I think 1 or the other would've been a better decision.
Wood in particular hasn't been threatening enough for me.
Typical soft dismissal for Denly.
Athers stitched up by a rogue message :)
https://youtu.be/ujsi8ksX-eg
Was any justification given for selecting to bat on the first day? Is the pitch expected to be unplayable tomorrow?The ball kept low a few times today, and there were a couple of spitters too. It won't be easy tomorrow, especially if we could somehow get 200+ ahead.
England have had a go, and Archer has been magnificent, but we've missed a few chances and you can't afford that in a low chase. Need an epic collapse from here.
People will talk about the toss and Broad / Wood but they outplayed us and fully deserved the win.
I always want England to win, but if we have to lose to anyone I’m glad it’s the Windies. World cricket needs the Windies to be good and Jason Holder is a mighty impressive player and leader.
I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
They were talking about this on Sky. The reason Wood for Broad was odd is because most commentators thought England would save Wood for the pacier tracks at Old Trafford. It would be equally odd to drop him now. After all, anyone can have a bad game and if the tracks are pacier up there then he could do well. Three tests in a row would be pushing it though. Broad in for the third test maybe?I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
I think Wood struggled and I'm nervous of him playing back to back tests so I'd bring Broad back in along with Root. The 3rd test is close behind so we can look again after that.
I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
I think Wood struggled and I'm nervous of him playing back to back tests so I'd bring Broad back in along with Root. The 3rd test is close behind so we can look again after that.
I really rate Wood, but agree that he was probably an unwise choice for the first test. I wonder if the selectors were trying to make a starement that nobody is undroppable - apart from Jimmy, Stokes and Root.
They were talking about this on Sky. The reason Wood for Broad was odd is because most commentators thought England would save Wood for the pacier tracks at Old Trafford. It would be equally odd to drop him now. After all, anyone can have a bad game and if the tracks are pacier up there then he could do well. Three tests in a row would be pushing it though. Broad in for the third test maybe?I thought we bowled well, Archer in particular bowled a couple of good spells in the morning session on day 5. I’d be happy to stick with that attack for the 2nd test. It was the batsmen that let us down not the bowlers.
I think Wood struggled and I'm nervous of him playing back to back tests so I'd bring Broad back in along with Root. The 3rd test is close behind so we can look again after that.
See again I’m not anti-Crawley at all, and I’m hoping he’s a long term option, but his record (acknowledging a small sample size) is no better than Denly’s. Denly has made good and important scores.
See again I’m not anti-Crawley at all, and I’m hoping he’s a long term option, but his record (acknowledging a small sample size) is no better than Denly’s. Denly has made good and important scores.
As above Crawley has shown consistent improvement. Denly has shown he can get starts but has done a shocking job of converting this 10-30 starts into even 50s let alone match defining scores. Given the respective ages I see no reason to keep Denly in.
Yeah I think if you look at scores alone Denly doesn’t look great, but it’s the crease occupation he’s done well at. I think he’s done alright in his role.
See again I’m not anti-Crawley at all, and I’m hoping he’s a long term option, but his record (acknowledging a small sample size) is no better than Denly’s. Denly has made good and important scores.
As above Crawley has shown consistent improvement. Denly has shown he can get starts but has done a shocking job of converting this 10-30 starts into even 50s let alone match defining scores. Given the respective ages I see no reason to keep Denly in.
That's my view as well. I guess we'll see, but on a practical level, how many players are actually in 'the bubble'? Say we got 5 cases of food poisoning (unlikely) would we have the players to replace them?
Looks like Broad and then Woakes or Curran as the replacements. I'm ok with that, I didn't think Wood or Jimmy would play all 3 anyway, for different reasons they're both injury risks that aren't worth taking given the options we have.Ollie Robinson was mentioned.
Looks like Broad and then Woakes or Curran as the replacements. I'm ok with that, I didn't think Wood or Jimmy would play all 3 anyway, for different reasons they're both injury risks that aren't worth taking given the options we have.Ollie Robinson was mentioned.
I'm really interested in why Archer went home, was it to collect something he needed/wanted or was it just because he could?I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was to pick something up.
I'm really interested in why Archer went home, was it to collect something he needed/wanted or was it just because he could?I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was to pick something up.
If they didn't want players to go home between tests, would it not have made more sense to have all the tests at the same venue?
To some, this would be like watching paint dry but I'm loving it. It helps that Dom Sibley is Bear but watching him bat is hypnotic.
To some, this would be like watching paint dry but I'm loving it. It helps that Dom Sibley is Bear but watching him bat is hypnotic.
Sibley's performance might bode well for the future but I don't think that it's the best way of winning what could be a rain shortened match
To some, this would be like watching paint dry but I'm loving it. It helps that Dom Sibley is Bear but watching him bat is hypnotic.
Sibley's performance might bode well for the future but I don't think that it's the best way of winning what could be a rain shortened match
Stokes is not going much quicker so it's clearly a difficult pitch to score runs, the Windies didn't take the new ball until the 95th over so batting with a cloth ball. If they end up at tea at about 400 Sibley and Stokes will have done an excellent job.
Stokes is not going much quicker so it's clearly a difficult pitch to score runs, the Windies didn't take the new ball until the 95th over so batting with a cloth ball. If they end up at tea at about 400 Sibley and Stokes will have done an excellent job.
Yep, the only way I can see England winning this is to only bat once
As far as Sky is concerned, I don't miss Gower or Botham one bit.
Ebony RB and Holding are damning Sibley with faint praise here. The word selfish was used, not playing for the team. What a load of old cock.
Game's going nowhere at the moment.
Buttler and Stokes open the batting. This could be fun.Probably the right decision, I think I'd have been tempted to keep Burns in and just promote one but he can always come in at 3 if need be.
I don't think they will, but would you bring Foakes in for the 3rd test?
I'm not sure, I'm a massive fan of Buttler because at his best he's a brilliant wildcard in the middle order but he's nowhere near his best right now. On top of that I think pushing him up the order as a gamble and then dropping him for failing doesn't look great.Yes, that's how it might be perceived but in reality his Test form has been substandard for quite a while. I was surprised to read just now that Buttler is 30 in a couple of months.
I'm not sure, I'm a massive fan of Buttler because at his best he's a brilliant wildcard in the middle order but he's nowhere near his best right now. On top of that I think pushing him up the order as a gamble and then dropping him for failing doesn't look great.Yes, that's how it might be perceived but in reality his Test form has been substandard for quite a while. I was surprised to read just now that Buttler is 30 in a couple of months.
I think Foakes is excellent, I’d want him playing in India.
Are they now allowed 3 unsuccessful reviews?They are for now because home umpires are being used.
And there it is. The commentators keep wanking on about how talented Shai Hope is but his Test record is woeful. One great test against England, and in his 31 other tests, next to fuck all.
Are they now allowed 3 unsuccessful reviews?They are for now because home umpires are being used.
Are they now allowed 3 unsuccessful reviews?They are for now because home umpires are being used.
He's an exceptional white ball player who looks like he should be a fantastic red ball player but who just doesn't get the game time in red ball cricket. In the commentary yesterday they were talking about Hope's last first class match and it's nearly 3 1/2 years ago because he's been playing white ball or test matches.They just put this question to Holding during lunch and, for what it's worth, he didn't subscribe to that view.
He's an exceptional white ball player who looks like he should be a fantastic red ball player but who just doesn't get the game time in red ball cricket. In the commentary yesterday they were talking about Hope's last first class match and it's nearly 3 1/2 years ago because he's been playing white ball or test matches.They just put this question to Holding during lunch and, for what it's worth, he didn't subscribe to that view.
He might be right but I do think it makes it harder to find form and there are too many white ball matches for the top players.There's a good piece about Hope on cricinfo that was written a few days ago. Apparently, of all top 4 batsmen in test cricket since 2018 Hope has the worst average - 18.69 - and one 50 from 24 innings. I know the Windies don't have great options in their top order but that's a shocking stat.
He might be right but I do think it makes it harder to find form and there are too many white ball matches for the top players.There's a good piece about Hope on cricinfo that was written a few days ago. Apparently, of all top 4 batsmen in test cricket since 2018 Hope has the worst average - 18.69 - and one 50 from 24 innings. I know the Windies don't have great options in their top order but that's a shocking stat.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29467679/why-shai-hope-headingley-opus-not-sustain-much-longer (https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29467679/why-shai-hope-headingley-opus-not-sustain-much-longer)
Be interesting to see how they rotate the bowlers for the decider as the 3 in this match out performed the 3 in the last test in my opinion.
As I said, dropping Woakes or Broad would be harsh given their figures and you'd expect Jimmy to get the call given where the match is being played so Jof in for Stokes and shift the order about? Seems risky but if Stokes isn't fit enough to bowl then we would need someone else in even if Stokes plays as 'just' a batsman.
I agree it's harsh on Curran but he is still pretty expensive for the amount of wickets he gets.
As I said, dropping Woakes or Broad would be harsh given their figures and you'd expect Jimmy to get the call given where the match is being played so Jof in for Stokes and shift the order about? Seems risky but if Stokes isn't fit enough to bowl then we would need someone else in even if Stokes plays as 'just' a batsman.
I agree it's harsh on Curran but he is still pretty expensive for the amount of wickets he gets.
Stokes said he was fine and it was just stiffness
Stokes plays as a batsman regardless for me.
Stokes plays as a batsman regardless for me.
Surprised by that selection. There is a lot of bowling in there.
Woakes could do with a score too. Since he made his ton a couple of years ago, he's only made 5 double-figure scores and no 50s (in about 15 innings).Surprised by that selection. There is a lot of bowling in there.
As I said above, need Buttler to deliver.
Burns gone now. Very sharp catch at slip by the man mountain. England in the shit a bit here at 122 for 4 with Jos Buttler tip toeing to the crease.
Really important for Buttler to get a score. He's playing watchfully, looks determined.He does. Very intense. It's working for him so far though.
The Windies looked poor in the last session, totally uninterested and they let the game get away.
It was a poor position because when an under-pressure Buttler came to the crease the Windies knew that one more wicket and they were into the bowlers. I bet they're ruing not picking Joseph.
Fair enough. You may well be right. I'd bite your hand off for 350 now.It was a poor position because when an under-pressure Buttler came to the crease the Windies knew that one more wicket and they were into the bowlers. I bet they're ruing not picking Joseph.
That depends on what an average score on here is, I think this will be a low scoring game, that's all I meant.
369 having been 280 for 8 is a brilliant effort.
Vaughan made a good point, I thought, about the criticism of Buttler's 'keeping. That for all that batsmen need time at the crease and bowlers need overs in their legs, having to crouch, dive and concentrate for every delivery of the day means enforced lay-offs can be especially difficult for 'keepers, who can't just hide down at fine leg when they're out of touch.
We need to push on here. The forecast for tomorrow is poor and we need runs and a few sessions to bowl them out.
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
Rakheem Cornwall coming in off his long run now ...
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
yeah, that was a bizarre decision.
declared sooner than I expected so they could have a little spell this evening and 2 big wickets down already. WI look knackered now, I think Englands extra fitness and the bit of rotation we've done with the bowlers has made a massive difference.
Still don’t know what Holder was thinking by playing two spinners and then opting to bowl first
yeah, that was a bizarre decision.
perhaps they didn't have any option regarding the choice of bowlers, Joseph was injured last test wasn't he? I suppose the the batting second was a negative tactic not wanting to lose and, if it all went pair shaped, knowing what they have to do to save the game.
At 122-4 with Stokes, Root, Sibley and Burns all back in the hutch, with Pope and Buttler at the crease it looked an ok call.
Great little fact, Broad got his 500th wicket bowling the same guy that Anderson got for his 500th.
Apparently the first time they have won a three test series, after being one, down since 1885!
Apparently the first time they have won a three test series, after being one, down since 1885!
That's an incredible stat if true! I know three-test series' are relatively recent, but still.
Didn't England beat NZ 2-1 after being one down about ten years ago.
And yes, the Windies batting was largely shite.
Why are we generally so poor in the first test of a series? I thought we might have some momentum going into this on the back of the Windies series but yet again we have reverted to type.
Why are we generally so poor in the first test of a series? I thought we might have some momentum going into this on the back of the Windies series but yet again we have reverted to type.
It’s disappointing. I think in this Test it’s a combination so far. We had a couple of poor sessions with the ball and let Pakistan get 60-70 more than they should have. Pakistan then bowled very well, but having come through it Root threw it away. We have these sloppy periods/decisions that undermine progress.
Our batting is far too light and so it’s being proven. It’s a very long tail.
The mentality difference between different formats is mad isn't it? I know all the reasons why but you'd be really confident of knocking off 277 in 50 overs yet this seems a really tall order.
The mentality difference between different formats is mad isn't it? I know all the reasons why but you'd be really confident of knocking off 277 in 50 overs yet this seems a really tall order.
Difference in pitch too, surely? You'd be confident getting that on the first day of a test.
Root gone. We need a Stokes classic nowSorry
This little counter attack is why Buttler plays, doesn't happen as much as any of us would like but he can completely change an innings if he gets it right.
I piled on all the money in my account (paddypower account) on England yesterday at 3/1 against so I am sitting on a mega mountain of cash now. All £48.22 of it.
Great honesty from Buttler on his keeping after the game.
Great honesty from Buttler on his keeping after the game.
If Stokes can bowl in the next test, I’d drop Jimmy or Jofra and bring in Foakes
Great honesty from Buttler on his keeping after the game.
If Stokes can bowl in the next test, I’d drop Jimmy or Jofra and bring in Foakes
Yeah it’s a reasonable shout. I’d drop Jimmy, purely because I think Jofra is a potential point of difference, he needs to get his pace up, in a fairly samey attack. Also Jimmy looked pretty stiff in the field and it’s a short turnaround.
Nice one Aftab!Cheers Newby. Didn't know Woakesy is a Villain.
Great win England. Is it time to say goodbye to Jimmy if the conditions are not right for him and put in the extra batsman now that Stokes CAN bowl?
Woakes, you Villa fan you. Great knock.
Sorry don't know who you are I dont mix with paupers..... after today :oI piled on all the money in my account (paddypower account) on England yesterday at 3/1 against so I am sitting on a mega mountain of cash now. All £48.22 of it.How you fixed for a few bob Aftab? I'll pay you back...honest.
Sorry don't know who you are I dont mix with paupers..... after today :oI piled on all the money in my account (paddypower account) on England yesterday at 3/1 against so I am sitting on a mega mountain of cash now. All £48.22 of it.How you fixed for a few bob Aftab? I'll pay you back...honest.
Nice one Aftab!Cheers Newby. Didn't know Woakesy is a Villain.
Great win England. Is it time to say goodbye to Jimmy if the conditions are not right for him and put in the extra batsman now that Stokes CAN bowl?
Woakes, you Villa fan you. Great knock.
Nice one Aftab!Cheers Newby. Didn't know Woakesy is a Villain.
Great win England. Is it time to say goodbye to Jimmy if the conditions are not right for him and put in the extra batsman now that Stokes CAN bowl?
Woakes, you Villa fan you. Great knock.
Yes mate. Makes me like him even more as a cricketer. Him and Ian Bell both villa men.
Hope Stokes and his family are ok.
Sloppy start. Quite surprised Jimmy got in ahead of Archer. Bowling attack looks pretty samey, but hope it works out.
Crowds allowed back to the Crucible for the Snooker final, in an enclosed arena but not cricket. I struggle to see why say a 33% capacity aren't allowed in the Test grounds which is in the open air?
Fine maiden 100 from Crawley. Good effort.
I’m just catching up with the test after a day at work on various video calls.
Why are the guys wearing black armbands? Have I missed the passing of a former player?
Happy to admit I have underestimated where Crawley is now. Think he has a game that could be very successful in an away Ashes.
A couple of good things due to this summer's international cricket being behind closed doors; no inane chanting / Barmy Army nonsense and especially no fecking trumpetAlso, no beer snakes, and no fancy dress.
A couple of good things due to this summer's international cricket being behind closed doors; no inane chanting / Barmy Army nonsense and especially no fecking trumpetAlso, no beer snakes, and no fancy dress.
Happy to admit I have underestimated where Crawley is now. Think he has a game that could be very successful in an away Ashes.
I think that 3,4,5,6 going forward is pretty much set now in Crawley, Root, Stokes, Pope
The openers still worry me though. Burns has real problems against left-arm pace and Sibley can basically only score on the leg side.
I’m not sure there’s any real arguments on the declaration. There’s 3 days left.
From Twitter
Highest Test Score After Each Type of Dismissal
Stumped - Crawley(267)
Caught - Hayden(380)
Bowled - Jayawardene(374)
LBW - Houghton(266)
Run Out - Lara(277)
Hit Wckt - Ponsford(266)
Handled The Ball - Gooch(133)
Obstructing - Hutton(27)
Retired Out - Atapattu(201)
Ok fair enough, but our rate of scoring was sufficiently fast to limit the need to bat again.
From Twitter
Highest Test Score After Each Type of Dismissal
Stumped - Crawley(267)
Caught - Hayden(380)
Bowled - Jayawardene(374)
LBW - Houghton(266)
Run Out - Lara(277)
Hit Wckt - Ponsford(266)
Handled The Ball - Gooch(133)
Obstructing - Hutton(27)
Retired Out - Atapattu(201)
Where on twitter? There's something very Zaltzman about them. The sort of thing he'd dig out before you'd finished asking him if he could!
I like Ramprakash too, he’s added a bit of quiet authority which has been missing since CMJ passed away.
The absence of neutral umpires this summer has shown just how good the English umpires on the international panel are, especially Michael GoughIsn't that bit akin to how great English football Referees were myth that existed a couple of decades ago?
With a poor Weather forecast For tomorrow, Jimmy is going to be stuck on 599 wickets for a long time.
The next test series is scheduled to be in India in January, if it happens. He isn’t an automatic pick for games on the subcontinent so it could be next summer before he gets another test. I really hope that age doesn’t catch up on him. He deserves to get to 600 wickets, and if our slips could catch then he’d be there by now!
The absence of neutral umpires this summer has shown just how good the English umpires on the international panel are, especially Michael GoughIsn't that bit akin to how great English football Referees were myth that existed a couple of decades ago?
And also well done to West Indies and Pakistan for touring and playing Test cricket. I think both series have been a success from that point of view and played in totally the right spirit.
Nice knock from Banton tonight, played some lovely shots.
I’m not really sure why there’s any debate around Malan being in the side. He’s excellent nearly all the time.
Brainless from the Aussies and we took full advantage. Ohdearwhatapitynevermind.
I think part of the problem is that Buttler is in the form of his life, which makes all bowlers look pretty average.Far be it from me to defend the Aussies but it's a very tough ask for their bowlers - as good as some of them are - to come in off no competitive cricket in 5 months against someone like Buttler whose form has been getting better and better over two solid months of cricket.
Supreme innings from Buttler 77 from 54 with a fucking huge 6 to seal the win. Also credit to Moeen with the 6 and 4 earlier in the over to take all the pressure off, exactly the sort of batting he's there to bring late in the innings.
I think part of the problem is that Buttler is in the form of his life, which makes all bowlers look pretty average.Far be it from me to defend the Aussies but it's a very tough ask for their bowlers - as good as some of them are - to come in off no competitive cricket in 5 months against someone like Buttler whose form has been getting better and better over two solid months of cricket.
The over where he hit a 4 through cover and then when they moved the fielder he hit the next one through point where he'd come from was the clearest sign you'll see of a batsman in complete control. Stoinis was stood on the rope looking like he wanted a hole to open under his feet and Agar just looked lost as to where to bowl next.The best batsman I ever saw in the flesh was Lara and for much the same reason you describe there: his placement was phenomenal - it was almost as if there weren't any fielders there at all.
Have to say that I've always thought Zampa is rubbish. McGill must wish he'd have been playing nowadays, rather than when Warne was in his pomp.
We’ve done really well. Although I think this series shows how important Stokes is to the balance of the side. We’re really really reliant on the top 6 with the team as it is at the moment. If the team set up as it is got off to a bad start we’d massively struggle.
Yep I think the side is too lopsided at the moment. Curran at 7 is too high.
Bit disappointing tonight, although very proud that Mo got to captain his country. Australia weren't quite so rusty and their changes improved their team, while ours didn't.
Yeah that was a belter, especially to a batsman well set. It's always nice to see The Big Show die on his arse too.Bit disappointing tonight, although very proud that Mo got to captain his country. Australia weren't quite so rusty and their changes improved their team, while ours didn't.
We played like a team missing a few key players and knowing that the series was won. Sam Billings though has probably destroyed any chance he had of breaking in to the team, awful shot selection when he just needed to take a few more singles and settle himself.
Credit though to Rashid for the delivery to get Finch, top drawer bit of bowling.
Have been turned over a bit in the power play here.
It’s brilliant from the bowlers and captain.
I guess the aussie collapse and the incredible figures for the England quicks shows that the pitch was at least part of the problem. That's gotta be one of the lowest scoring ODIs for years.
I guess the aussie collapse and the incredible figures for the England quicks shows that the pitch was at least part of the problem. That's gotta be one of the lowest scoring ODIs for years.
They used the same pitch on Friday too. It was two paced, slow and our attack made the most of it.
The batting line up really hasn’t fired in this series.
The batting line up really hasn’t fired in this series.
I think the pitch has played a big part in that.
Marlon Samuels is a bit of a tit isn’t he.
What’s he done?
What’s he done?Strange fellow:
Marlon Samuels has made another reference to the partners of England cricket players, days after being slammed for an ugly remark about Ben Stokes’ wife.
Former West Indian batsman Samuels took to Instagram earlier this week to respond to comments made by Stokes, who said he wouldn’t wish spending 14 days in isolation on his “worst enemy”.
“It wasn’t the most enjoyable thing you ever have to do, I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy,” Stokes told the BBC. “I text my brother saying the same thing, and my brother asked, ‘You wouldn’t even do that to Marlon Samuels?’
“I said, ‘No, it’s that bad’, that’s how tough it was.”
Samuels was outraged at having his name dragged into things and went nuclear.
“No white boy could diss me in the sports and no get back diss look at this b***h still thinking about me give me 14 days with you wife turn her into Jamaican in 14 seconds mate none of yall knows me that simple means it’s my f***ing superior skin tone yall hate f*** you,” Samuels wrote on Instagram on Tuesday.
Samuels and Stokes clashed on the cricket field as rivals, as did the West Indian and Shane Warne, who Samuels called a “b***h” as part of his tirade.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/marlon-samuels-mentions-more-wives-of-england-cricketers-after-slur-about-ben-stokes-partner/news-story/22f26d459cd734f659d3a584e2171a35
An article on the non-participation of Pakistani players in the IPLYes read that good article. It's a totally political thing disguised as a safety issue by BCCI and really ICC should have the balls to do something about it. Current tournament being played in UAE blows away the player safety lie.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/oct/26/ecb-global-silence-pakistan-ipl-exile
Marlon Samuels is a bit of a tit isn’t he.
Start of the BBL and Australia v India matches looking a bit dicey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54957969
Start of the BBL and Australia v India matches looking a bit dicey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/54957969
I hope not. What has helped keep me from the darkness was the cricket here and the IPL (I watched just about every game though the commentators were so wrapped up in a) the in-game advertising b) declaring every play.player as world class that I watched with the sound muted).
I've been watching Sky's re-run of the first Ashes Test of 2013...already it seems weird that Trent Bridge is full and people aren't Social Distancing.
I'd forgotten that the Broad incident (where he didn't walk) was in the second innings, and what a superlative 100 it was by Bell.
...and always the first to be dropped when he failed.
...and always the first to be dropped when he failed.
Provisional 2021 England international schedule released
https://www.ecb.co.uk/england/men/fixtures
...and always the first to be dropped when he failed.
He still played in 118 tests though.
Some knock from Bairstow to win the game.
Ah good. No rush with that vaccine, I'll have to soldier on "working" from home. 😁
England squad: Joe Root (capt), Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Dom Bess, Stuart Broad, Jos Buttler (wk), Zak Crawley, Sam Curran, Ben Foakes (wk), Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach, Dom Sibley, Olly Stone, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood.
Reserves: James Bracey (wk), Mason Crane, Saqib Mahmood, Craig Overton, Matthew Parkinson, Ollie Robinson, Amar Virdi.
India in a collapse for the ages against Australia. All out for 36. 27/9 in the day. India’s lowest ever total in Tests.
The Aussie batting line up is very poor, Head, Burns, Wade, Green should be no where near their top 6. In another era they wouldn’t have made a 3rd Aussie side. Their bowing attack is superb though unfortunately.
The Aussie batting line up is very poor, Head, Burns, Wade, Green should be no where near their top 6. In another era they wouldn’t have made a 3rd Aussie side. Their bowing attack is superb though unfortunately.
Can’t speak for Green, as I haven’t seen him play. But Head’s alright isn’t he? His average is just shy of 40 isn’t it? Always looks tidy enough. Agree on Burns and Wade.
Yes no doubt, but if your benchmark is arguably the greatest team(s) ever - acknowledging the Windies would have a strong case - then it’s an impossible standard. I’d say Head would be a decent middle order player for most.
Barring a really extraordinary turnaround I think it's quite plain that Steve Smith is greatest player of his generation, and by a distance.Maybe the greatest batsman but he has very obvious shortcomings in other aspects of the game.
Keep your eyes peeled for the new England Physio in Sri Lanka. Ben Davies. He’s my mate’s son, Villa season ticket holder and all round nice fella will no doubt be spreading the Villa gospel to the test team.At least he'll have Chris Woakes as some support!!!
Barring a really extraordinary turnaround I think it's quite plain that Steve Smith is greatest player of his generation, and by a distance.Maybe the greatest batsman but he has very obvious shortcomings in other aspects of the game.
Barring a really extraordinary turnaround I think it's quite plain that Steve Smith is greatest player of his generation, and by a distance.Maybe the greatest batsman but he has very obvious shortcomings in other aspects of the game.
Great second innings performance by India to hold out for the draw.
I see the great new era of sportsmanship in Australian cricket started to creak today when things didn’t go their way.
Stuff like this is a big part of why I don't see Smith as a true great as his figures would suggest. The other big part is that I just don't like watching him play. If you watch at players like Williamson, Kohli and Root when they get going they just look right (I'd add a few others here as well but those 4 were the ones who were all fighting out to be the best in the world a couple of years back), Smith has great hand eye co-ordination and timing so he's effective but his style is janky and despite his success I can't stop thinking that someone will work him out because it just looks like there's got to be fundamental flaws in how square he is.
No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.
People used to say similar things about Bradman. Awkward, inelegant, an accumulator more than a scorer, more power than finesse, all of it. Smith may look like a broken puppet during the bowler's run-up, but how incredibly in line he gets by the point of delivery is all part of his process. No doubt in England we'd have 'corrected' his technique and ended up with a worse player.
In the end, in cricket numbers are hard to argue with. Smith doesn't live in a dud period for bowling, yet his average is what it is. He's 9th on the all-time run scorers list in Tests at the age of 30 and the only player on that list to be shy of 100 caps (a whopping 29 shy, in fact). He's got the highest average of all players ever to have played at least as many tests as he has. He is a lot of things, but he's also clearly a batting genius.
Little twat, I'd sledge him like nobodies business next ashes.
No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.
That's my point though, I watch him and know he's a brilliant batsman but I still can't stop myself seeing all kinds of problems with his technique. I get the impression that is part of his effectiveness, bowlers get drawn into bowling at the clear weaknesses but he's expecting exactly that and uses it to his advantage.
No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.
That's my point though, I watch him and know he's a brilliant batsman but I still can't stop myself seeing all kinds of problems with his technique. I get the impression that is part of his effectiveness, bowlers get drawn into bowling at the clear weaknesses but he's expecting exactly that and uses it to his advantage.
I know what you mean about his style, as he's not one for the purists, but if he's drawing bowlers into what they think is a weakness, then is it really a weakness at all?
Can't see England piling on a massive lead though, this looks a tough pitch to score on and we haven't played very much cricket for 6months.
Both openers gone so Bairstow and Root in the middle, the good part of that is these 2 are both good players of spin so if they can be patient and focused this could be the key partnership.
It was a fair comment.
Root's 50 > 100 conversion rate isn't up there with that of the other top players
Curran and Bess need to do better at number 7 and 8 otherwise England will have a very vulnerable tail in Australia at the end of the year.Stokes comes in so Buttler drops down to 7 and Woakes or Ali at 8 would be much stronger.
Curran and Bess need to do better at number 7 and 8 otherwise England will have a very vulnerable tail in Australia at the end of the year.Stokes comes in so Buttler drops down to 7 and Woakes or Ali at 8 would be much stronger.
We have to play our best attack in Aus. Both teams have misfiring batting line ups and excellent bowling units. Their attack is better than ours particularly at home so if we are to have any chance in the Ashes our bowlers will need to play out of their skin.
Two big wickets there though.
Untidy work from Jos Buttler behind the stumps.
Untidy work from Jos Buttler behind the stumps.
That was a lot tidier!
The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
My friend met Bairstow years ago at a house party. It was when he was just breaking into the England team. Whenever anyone spoke to him, he would apparently say "I would introduce myself, but you already know who I am".
He may have changed since then, but he definitely has the air of a dickhead about him.
I have seen and sometimes met Bairstow on England tours in Australia, the Caribbean and South Africa and I would say he has not changed.The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
My friend met Bairstow years ago at a house party. It was when he was just breaking into the England team. Whenever anyone spoke to him, he would apparently say "I would introduce myself, but you already know who I am".
He may have changed since then, but he definitely has the air of a dickhead about him.
I have seen and sometimes met Bairstow on England tours in Australia, the Caribbean and South Africa and I would say he has not changed.The run out is why I just don't trust Bairstow, he does things like that far too often.
It’s because he has a tendency to get too intense and becomes too frenetic.
My friend met Bairstow years ago at a house party. It was when he was just breaking into the England team. Whenever anyone spoke to him, he would apparently say "I would introduce myself, but you already know who I am".
He may have changed since then, but he definitely has the air of a dickhead about him.
Bairstow always strikes me as having a bit of a chip on his shoulder. I really took a dim view of his comments after his century in Sri Lanka a couple of years ago. I can’t remember the specifics but I remember thinking it was disrespectful of Foakes, a new player making his way.
I appreciate Bairstow has had to go through some horrible circumstances, but I feel he directs his emotions in the wrong way sometimes. No denying he’s a fine player though, but he has some gaps in his game in Test cricket.
Sounds like you've watched cricket all over! Are you in the Barmy Army or something?Yes and no Rory. A group of us travel together and we use the Barmy Army for information on tour dates, ticket availability and suitable accommodation. They get hold of good information early however we keep away from the gatherings whilst on tour. Some of them seem to have an ordained sense of importance as the only fans fit to support England and everyone else is an imposter. Mind you having said that one of their main songwriter/starter is a lad from Alvechurch a massive Villa fan. So he's ok :).
Sounds like you've watched cricket all over! Are you in the Barmy Army or something?Yes and no Rory. A group of us travel together and we use the Barmy Army for information on tour dates, ticket availability and suitable accommodation. They get hold of good information early however we keep away from the gatherings whilst on tour. Some of them seem to have an ordained sense of importance as the only fans fit to support England and everyone else is an imposter. Mind you having said that one of their main songwriter/starter is a lad from Alvechurch a massive Villa fan. So he's ok :).
Good effort to get across the line without any further horrors today.
Sounds like you've watched cricket all over! Are you in the Barmy Army or something?Yes and no Rory. A group of us travel together and we use the Barmy Army for information on tour dates, ticket availability and suitable accommodation. They get hold of good information early however we keep away from the gatherings whilst on tour. Some of them seem to have an ordained sense of importance as the only fans fit to support England and everyone else is an imposter. Mind you having said that one of their main songwriter/starter is a lad from Alvechurch a massive Villa fan. So he's ok :).
I'd like to see Olly Stone given a chance on this tour, Woakes back in the side too. Moeen in for Curran, Stone and Woakes in for Broad and Wood. Gives us some more pace and energy and deepens the batting line up too. I like to look of Dan Lawrence.
I am not laughing but losing the series after being one up to India's 2nd XI takes some doing. Roll on end of the year :PLooks like we won’t be there though.
I'd like to see Olly Stone given a chance on this tour, Woakes back in the side too. Moeen in for Curran, Stone and Woakes in for Broad and Wood. Gives us some more pace and energy and deepens the batting line up too. I like to look of Dan Lawrence.
I couldn’t disagree more. Sri Lanka is a quick bowlers graveyard.
Wood should play, Jimmy will replace Broad on a rotation basis. Moeen will be well short of match fitness and as recently as Friday Woakes was self-isolating so he will also be short Of match fitness too. I’d keep Curran in the starting XI, he is a special talent.
Jimmy has done a hell of a job so far.
Root seems to be in a good place with the bat. With the year we have ahead, Root being back to his best and putting himself firmly back in with Smith, Kohli and Williamson would be brilliant.
Yep the openers need to learn fast. This isn’t good enough from them.
I was surprised that this was only Root's 19th test century. Not that 19 is to be sniffed at, but it feels like he has more.
I was surprised that this was only Root's 19th test century. Not that 19 is to be sniffed at, but it feels like he has more.
See previous comments about his 50 to 100 conversion rate, compared to the other top players.
Run Out for 186, thanks to a brilliant but of fielding at Short Leg
Credit where it's due. That was a great, instinctive piece of fielding.
First time in Test history that a fielder (Thirimanne) has taken five catches off the same bowler (Embuldeniya) in the same innings.
Credit where it's due. That was a great, instinctive piece of fielding.Bizarrely the throw actually missed the stumps and hit the stump mic positioned on the ground directly behind.
Credit where it's due. That was a great, instinctive piece of fielding.Bizarrely the throw actually missed the stumps and hit the stump mic positioned on the ground directly behind.
Excellent win and a good series win as well. The negativity in the media astounds me sometimes though. After spending the last few days telling everyone how hard it is going to be to win, now that they have the lines of Vaughan and Tufnel saying on the BBC that Sri Lanka are really poor and there is going to have to be massive improvement in India
Both might be the case, but is it really needed after the series has just been wrapped up.
Excellent win and a good series win as well. The negativity in the media astounds me sometimes though. After spending the last few days telling everyone how hard it is going to be to win, now that they have the lines of Vaughan and Tufnel saying on the BBC that Sri Lanka are really poor and there is going to have to be massive improvement in India
Both might be the case, but is it really needed after the series has just been wrapped up.
As they were saying in the sky commentary that's 5 away test in a row now, it's bene over a century since England last did that, I'm not sure there's any need for negativity around the team right now.
In the SL 1st innings, England took all 10 wickets with seam1st time in test history apparently
In the SL 2nd innings, England took all 10 wickets with spin
I wonder if they've ever done that before ?
Excellent win and a good series win as well. The negativity in the media astounds me sometimes though. After spending the last few days telling everyone how hard it is going to be to win, now that they have the lines of Vaughan and Tufnel saying on the BBC that Sri Lanka are really poor and there is going to have to be massive improvement in India
Both might be the case, but is it really needed after the series has just been wrapped up.
As they were saying in the sky commentary that's 5 away test in a row now, it's bene over a century since England last did that, I'm not sure there's any need for negativity around the team right now.
Agree Paul. Yes, Sri Lanka are nowhere near as strong as they have been in past years and of course India will be a much tougher test, but why start bringing that up straight after a very good test and series win?
Vaughan has a tendency to either make up words or use the wrong words in the context of what he’s trying to say. I wouldn’t mind normally, but I get the impression he thinks he’s quite bright.
Looks like the India series is not going to be on sky or BT and is rumoured to be a fight between Amazon and Disney - which presumably means more to pay out to watch. Anyone know any more ?
Which TV channel and live stream can I watch it on?
To watch England play in the UK, you'll need to have Sky Sports Cricket.
Sky have exclusive rights to show every ball of England's matches in 2021.
The sports listings sites show the broadcaster as TBCAgree that we’d know about it by now if Sky were showing it - like every ad break is currently advertising some Alien nonsense stating on Thursday (I think - try not to get sucked into it !).
However, The S*n (must check my anti-virus software) has the following in an article from just a couple of days agoQuoteWhich TV channel and live stream can I watch it on?
To watch England play in the UK, you'll need to have Sky Sports Cricket.
Sky have exclusive rights to show every ball of England's matches in 2021.
If Sky did have the rights, they'd have been promoting the hell out of it and I've seen no adverts
How to watch India vs England live in the UK
It is still unclear who will broadcast the series in the UK. As Telegraph Sport revealed in December, the tour is set to be shown on Disney's Hotstar streaming service, although the final arrangements have yet to be confirmed.
Star Sports, part of the Disney empire, has exclusive rights to broadcast cricket within India and sells on its access to broadcasters in other territories, such as Sky or BT.
But the explosion in popularity of streaming services, such as its Disney+ channel, has led Disney to seriously consider retaining the rights, worth around £20 million, and screening matches in this country via one of its own digital platforms rather than selling them on to a traditional broadcaster.
Disney and Amazon are both priced much more reasonably than BT Sport or Sky PLUS Sky Sports.
Disney and Amazon are both priced much more reasonably than BT Sport or Sky PLUS Sky Sports.
Not really a like for like comparison though.
BT Sport and Sky Sport offer far more content than Amazon, and now Disney
Ah, that's brilliant well done India, obviously less money grabbing parasites than the ECB.
I was on about them selling out to Sky after England won The Ashes back. England matches are of national interest and should be free to air. India have got England tests back on terrestrial TV again so well done them.
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
I was on about them selling out to Sky after England won The Ashes back. England matches are of national interest and should be free to air. India have got England tests back on terrestrial TV again so well done them.
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
Chicken and egg situation though. Viewers will always be lower on sky, as it's behind a paywall. 2005 was a peak as we hadn't beaten the Aussies in ages, but 2015 was 3rd ashes series in the space of two years, so probably some apathy setting in amongst the wider public at that point.
Good blog here about the ECB's position of money above all else - https://beingoutsidecricket.com/
I was on about them selling out to Sky after England won The Ashes back. England matches are of national interest and should be free to air. India have got England tests back on terrestrial TV again so well done them.
Nothing to do with India to be fair. Their rights are already sold on to Hotstar (I think), who then just sell the rights on to the highest bidder in each overseas market.
BCCI and ECB have had little to do with it.
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
I tell you what it’s a right kick in the balls when you see Talksport have the radio rights as opposed to TMS.
I'm not sure I agree. I think the ODI and t20 world cups should be free to air but test cricket is, regardless of what it's supporters say, a niche market - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv - This is old but shows less than half a millions viewers for the final day of an ashes test match where England went into it as favourites. It's hard to justify a public funded broadcaster paying to air that and altering 25days of scheduling to accommodate it.
Not really sure how quoting Sky viewing figures helps your cause. They were much better on terrestrial television, as you would expect.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/aug/30/ashes2005.broadcasting
As for the 25 days, that's still less than the snooker gets on terrestrial telly every year. And I love snooker but suggesting that terrestrial television can find 36 days (I think) every year for snooker but it would be impossible to schedule a home Ashes once every four years is a stretch, I think.
Especially as... they did manage to show The Ashes on Channel 4 till it was taken off them to sell out to Sky, and I'm sure Channel 4 would happily snatch your hand off to show the whole Ashes again if they could afford it.
Root becomes the 3rd English batsman to score a century in his 100th test - Cowdrey and Alec Stewart being the other two
You're getting mixed up with his 100th 100
Root becomes the 3rd English batsman to score a century in his 100th test - Cowdrey and Alec Stewart being the other two
Didn't Boycott as well? Or am I getting mixed up with his 100th first class hundred?
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
It’s the host broadcaster that’s responsible for that. I really miss the Sky commentators!
Root becomes the 3rd English batsman to score a century in his 100th test - Cowdrey and Alec Stewart being the other two
Didn't Boycott as well? Or am I getting mixed up with his 100th first class hundred?
...or maybe his 99th ;)
Unrelated to the play but the overlays are horrible, the standard overlayy at the bottom looks like it's about 20 years out of date and full screen stuff isn't much better. Not sure who is responsible for it but the sky version is far better in my opinion.
Totally agree with you! It's so hard to see that tiny arrow indicating which batsman is on strike.
I'd be happy with 550 because the quicks are getting a bit of help from the pitch, that suits us. See out the day and face 1 over in the morning so we can choose what happens to the pitch.
I'd be happy with 550 because the quicks are getting a bit of help from the pitch, that suits us. See out the day and face 1 over in the morning so we can choose what happens to the pitch.
The pitch is rolled at an innings changeover regardless.
I don't mind us batting on, but Bess at least should be playing a lot more positive.
There is no point in batting on now. This is decent score and much hard work will be required from bowlers to get a win here. Any more time taken up batting will only help India.
Game is setting up nicely for what could be a nice finish, Stokes out now. Think we might need a lead of 400.Yep. Look what happened in Bangladesh and what’s currently happening in Pakistan. India not out of this yet.
England have been excellent in this test, but if it ends tomorrow with India 8 down, they will deserve every bit of criticism they get in afraid.
Yes, great final day. Jimmy at 38 was just outstanding. Would be a big call to rest him for the next Test. Channel 4 coverage not brilliant, I know it is difficult in covid times but the punditry with Sirs Cooky and Straussy wasn't the best!
I think they will rotate Anderson and Broad. The stated plan is to win the Ashes in Australia, as such both are very important to that ambition. The bubble squad will allow them to replace the whole attack if they wanted to. Also, the next Test is a day/night game, surely both start in that one, and I cannot see them wanting Anderson to play three on the bounce at this point.
Whilst I don’t really like Talk Sport doing the cricket (far too little description by main commentators and too much emotive stuff) they had a good chat about squad rotation at lunch on the 5th day. England are very alive to its benefits in prolonging careers, rather than mocking players who “needed a rest” as happened previously.
I’m quite surprised Bess is out. He had a poor second innings, but a good first.
Selections make sense, rotating all the bowlers across the 4 tests is sensible - sure if he hadn’t had Covid Mo would have played in Sri Lanka - would expect either Stone or Woakes miss out tomorrow but hope they all get game time in this series - can see Woakes & Anderson leading the attack in the day night test
That said India are making it look very easy at the moment.They are arn't they, Rohit has played like it's a limited overs game at times which may be the right approach because the pitch surface is full of small cracks and that one ball may hit a crack and make it unplayable.
That said India are making it look very easy at the moment.
Wickets fall as soon as I stop watching. Will bear in mind for future sessions.
Wickets fall as soon as I stop watching. Will bear in mind for future sessions.
I did the same. Walked the dog and India lose two wickets. That stumping was out as well, cheating swine!! Where is VAR when you need it? Mike Dean would have given it, and sent him off!
It looks like a lot of runs on this pitch.
I'm not sure, the pitch isn't great but I'd still say 300-350 is par. We need early wickets tomorrow but I'd say it's pretty even so far.
End of day 2 the pitch is going to be akin to batting on a day 5 pitch
The lack of experienced Test umpires in India had potential to be a problem.
However, I didn’t factor in a Third Umpire completely forgetting the procedure for reviewing a catch.
I think that the stumping decision was ok. The stump cam suggested that there was something just about behind the line.
No problem with Kohli either. The umpires were also unsure what happened and they were looking at the stumps. Kohli was looking away from the stumps, so why should it be up to him to walk.
Yup. As I said Rohit's inning took the match out of England's hand. They have done a job all around from the way the pitch was prepared and how Sharma went about playing it one day style.End of day 2 the pitch is going to be akin to batting on a day 5 pitch
I think you’re absolutely right and for that reason, India have just batted us out of the test. Ravi Ashwin will be looking forward to bowling on it, it was prepared with him in mind.
Amazed to see the number of spectators in the ground - no masks or social distancing - India must have the virus well under control?
Amazed to see the number of spectators in the ground - no masks or social distancing - India must have the virus well under control?
Same, I didn’t want to ask because I thought I’d missed something. The first test was behind closed doors, while this a few days later is 50% with people all sat together.
What a bellend Kohli is being. You’re going to win and what are you complaining about? He should be fined.
With the way people are sat together what was the point of limiting it to 15000 only?Amazed to see the number of spectators in the ground - no masks or social distancing - India must have the virus well under control?
Same, I didn’t want to ask because I thought I’d missed something. The first test was behind closed doors, while this a few days later is 50% with people all sat together.
It’s very very odd that Moeen is now going home.
It was a bit of a gamble to throw him in after no red ball cricket for what 18 months? If he was always going home after 2 games you would have thought he either played first two games or played neither as he was always unlikely to hit it straight away to give control.
He will no doubt have given thick as pundits like Vaughan someone to blame for the loss though.
Vaughan is an utter plank - click bait pundit
I think if Moeen was always going home after this Test it’s a weird decision to pick him. He was always going to struggle for control, which is understandable, but if he’s not playing again then he’s not gaining anything. At the same time it disrupts Bess trying to develop control, who will probably now come in and will have been disrupted.He is not coping with being in the bubble and is struggling mentally. He has requested to be released and reluctantly they've agreed.
Yes particularly the "mental" issue he inflicted upon Trescothick.It was a bit of a gamble to throw him in after no red ball cricket for what 18 months? If he was always going home after 2 games you would have thought he either played first two games or played neither as he was always unlikely to hit it straight away to give control.
He will no doubt have given thick as pundits like Vaughan someone to blame for the loss though.
The more Vaughan tweets about players going home and just constantly wanting England to flog the same 11 players, the more it makes you think about the physical and mental.issues suffered by the likes of Tres, Flintoff, Harrison, Jones, Hoggard etc. Under his captaincy.
I think if Moeen was always going home after this Test it’s a weird decision to pick him. He was always going to struggle for control, which is understandable, but if he’s not playing again then he’s not gaining anything. At the same time it disrupts Bess trying to develop control, who will probably now come in and will have been disrupted.He is not coping with being in the bubble and is struggling mentally. He has requested to be released and reluctantly they've agreed.
Moeen has been treated in an exemplary manner by the England set up. Let's hope he recovers fully for home summer of cricket. I fear that this season will be his last chance to make it back as a Test cricketer. By the looks of it he is being given the necessary support and time.
Well they completely screwed upon Moeen’s departure didn’t they?
Well they completely screwed upon Moeen’s departure didn’t they?
Yeah, its been handled really badly and created a story where there wasn't one.
Well at least Mo's got a decent IPL deal.Not doubting his integrity but amazing how he pitched his hat right in for IPL auction instead of choosing to fully recuperate from covid and get ready for home season?
Crawley should've reviewed that for me I'm not convinced it was hitting (although it would probably have clipped and gone with umpire's call, but as we wouldn't have lost the review it was worth a look).
No way is this a pitch a team should be 81/5 on. We've batted very poorly
Questionable pitch or not some of this batting has been amateur.
Do people still think there's nothing wrong with this pitch?
I'm saying this as an excuse for a terrible batting performance, just pointing out that it's simply not good enough for test cricket and I'd think the same if it was us benefitting from it. There's a hole appearing right where the quicks are planting on the back of about 10-12 overs bowled by seamers from that end, that's just pathetic.
Do people still think there's nothing wrong with this pitch?
I'm saying this as an excuse for a terrible batting performance, just pointing out that it's simply not good enough for test cricket and I'd think the same if it was us benefitting from it. There's a hole appearing right where the quicks are planting on the back of about 10-12 overs bowled by seamers from that end, that's just pathetic.
Still think the pitch is fine, sorry.
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
Probs shouldn’t do that after about 20 overs of seam but will become irrelevant when it is Leach & Root bowling 30/40 overs each once the first bursts are done
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
It is a landing point footmark, and can often happen, especially if you are landing in the same area.
They don't have to land there, they can choose to alter their approach and landing point if they are finding it awkward.
Oh, and yes, I am watching.
If you think a day pitch encouraging bowlers to change their line for their own safety is fine then I think we'll leave it at that.
But there are 2 different things really here that you've highlighted - you mentioned the ball behaving differently from their spinner (I don't know which balls you saw) but it could simply be a ball that simply didn't grip and went straight on.
I don't think that would suggest a poor pitch.
The landing points are a different thing - obviously it isn't ideal but it is far from unique. One of the reasons for this could of course be dusk / night time conditions that we have had to bowl in.
But there are 2 different things really here that you've highlighted - you mentioned the ball behaving differently from their spinner (I don't know which balls you saw) but it could simply be a ball that simply didn't grip and went straight on.
I don't think that would suggest a poor pitch.
The landing points are a different thing - obviously it isn't ideal but it is far from unique. One of the reasons for this could of course be dusk / night time conditions that we have had to bowl in.
They're not different things though, both are consequences of their being almost no grass at the crease at either end, you can see that by simply looking for the painted line, it's almost completely disappeared at both ends on the side we're bowling from. What grass was there was just bound to the top layer of soil and that was lost in less than half a day of play. All of this means that the pitch has been allowed to dry out, with the intention of giving the spinners grip and turn from the first day but they've gone too far with it.
The deliveries I mentioned (and that the studio team raised) were as sign, for me, that the pitch was a dustbowl, what has happened in this last session with the England quicks just backs that up.
Anyway i don't want to argue about it, it won't change the game anyway, I just think there should be questions asked.
On the game itself Pope nearly got a wonder catch there, it that had stuck it'd have been one of the most replayed catches of all time, very unlucky.
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
Maybe, but I guess one of the consequences of bubble cricket is playing games at the same venues. And pitches turning on day 1 in India isn't something that should be surprising to anyone.
I would have thought before the series started this was our best chance of a result. As it turns out, we won the toss in the first one and batted very well. The frustrating thing for me today was winning the toss and batting so poorly.
Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
We were by and large rubbish. What we need to do now is come out tomorrow and basically bowl perfectly and get everything right, and some luck. We need to limit India to no more than a 100 run lead to have any chance.
As an aside I think the third umpiring in this series has been atrocious. The inconsistency today of looking at multiple angles for the Leach review and then barely looking at anything for the catch or the stumping was appalling. It doesn’t matter whether the decisions were out or not, you have to show the same level of diligence for both teams.
Correct. I’m more concerned about the pitches for the 5x T20’ss at the same venue especially given the importance of those as practice and in Indian conditions relative to the World Cup in October. I’d rather win that than a bilateral test series.Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
They aren't the same pitches being used for both games at a venue though surely? One is being prepared whilst the other is being used.
Correct. I’m more concerned about the pitches for the 5x T20’ss at the same venue especially given the importance of those as practice and in Indian conditions relative to the World Cup in October. I’d rather win that than a bilateral test series.Well we can happily disagree.
The pitch for the last test was awful - I think this one is nowhere near as bad.
Unless we are able to bat time we will struggle to be competitive in India.
Don't forget both of these are pitches that are facing 10 days of play. The first lasted about 3 before it started doing dodgy stuff and was clearly unfit for purpose by the 2nd test this looks every bit as bad as day 4 of the first test with supposedly 9 days to go on it. My concerns are what will happen over the course of the 2 games based on some dodgy stuff already.
They aren't the same pitches being used for both games at a venue though surely? One is being prepared whilst the other is being used.
I never judge a batting performance in a test match until both teams have batted on it.
India batted with grit and placed a value on their wickets, we didn’t.
I never judge a batting performance in a test match until both teams have batted on it.
India batted with grit and placed a value on their wickets, we didn’t.
If we can somehow get 300...
I don't know what to make of Axar Patel, he's been superb for them but I'm not sure how his style would translate to conditions outside the sub-continent, he's very quick and flat for a spinner, he'd be more like a medium pacer in English conditions. I think part of the reason we've struggled so much with him is that you rarely see bowlers like this.Axar is the right tool for the job there. He will do well on the sub-continent but unlikely to venture far from home.
Not sure how this can be out, there looks like a tiny edge and for me it pitched outside off stump. Surely the benefit of the doubt has to go with Root.
and the 3rd umpire agrees with me, I think that's a good decision.
Not sure how this can be out, there looks like a tiny edge and for me it pitched outside off stump. Surely the benefit of the doubt has to go with Root.
and the 3rd umpire agrees with me, I think that's a good decision.
It hit him in line, it doesn't matter where it pitched.
I am not sure there was enough doubt to over rule the on field decision.
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
It's fine having pitches which favour the home team, that's going to happen naturally. People grow up in different climates, climate affects the kind of cricket they'll learn, later on they find themselves better at home conditions than away. But this is preposterous - yeah it favours India, but if a batsman gets 0 it doesn't matter what your bowlers do.
It's not even that the pitches absurdly favour India. They'll win this match but they might have lost it, their batsmen had no chance either.
Absolutely, I don't think it's any disrespect to Root to suggest that him getting 5-8 points to the pitch being a minefield.
With the pitches clearly being prepared to take spin early, I do think they favour India as they have better spinners.
Of course, we often do the same at home too. I guess the differences is even at home it maybe a tricky first session or so but then improves, before deteriorating.
The last pitch just simply got worse from the first ball being bowled, with the pitch disintegrating.
I'm fine with pitches favouring the home team but there has to be some balance to it, you have to think that if a batsman plays well he'll get the rewards and be able to post a big score, that's not the case here, it's just a case of scoring as many as possible before you get one with your name on it. Today has been even worse than I thought when I was moaning about it yesterday.
What really bothers me is I hate watching a game where the bat or ball completely dominates, it's just not interesting to watch.
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
True, but India were in a similar position and didn't make it either despite being much more accustomed to the conditions. Also in both cases it was largely down to 1 player, as soon as they were out there were no decent partnerships.
That said England came out for this current session looking like they knew the match was gone and now we're not bowling with the same intensity it suddenly it looks a lot easier to score. That's been the bigger difference for me, their bowling has been more disciplined in just hitting the right line and letting the pitch do the work for England there's been too many loose deliveries that have let them score cheap runs. In such a tight game even 5-6 cheap boundaries is game changing.
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
True, but India were in a similar position and didn't make it either despite being much more accustomed to the conditions. Also in both cases it was largely down to 1 player, as soon as they were out there were no decent partnerships.
That said England came out for this current session looking like they knew the match was gone and now we're not bowling with the same intensity it suddenly it looks a lot easier to score. That's been the bigger difference for me, their bowling has been more disciplined in just hitting the right line and letting the pitch do the work for England there's been too many loose deliveries that have let them score cheap runs. In such a tight game even 5-6 cheap boundaries is game changing.
Well batting is so often about partnerships. I don't think there were too many concerns about the pitch when Crawley was moving his feet and driving nicely to various parts of the ground.
I wonder if the pink ball is actually part of the issue - they were talking about the lacquer and how it can be very skiddy.
I don't think I've ever seen so few runs scored across all innings of a completed test.
I completely agree we were under par in the first innings but even if we'd played well I doubt we'd have been looking at much more than 170-180. As it happens I think another 70 on the board (as we should've made) would make us favourites right now.
All along I was never trying to make an excuse for a poor batting performance (which included some bewildering shot selection) just pointing out that even exceptional batting wouldn't have been enough for a big score here. At best you could get a bit lucky and flash to the sort of scores Crawley and Rohit managed.
We were 74-2 in the first innings, getting to 200 at least should have been doable from there.
True, but India were in a similar position and didn't make it either despite being much more accustomed to the conditions. Also in both cases it was largely down to 1 player, as soon as they were out there were no decent partnerships.
That said England came out for this current session looking like they knew the match was gone and now we're not bowling with the same intensity it suddenly it looks a lot easier to score. That's been the bigger difference for me, their bowling has been more disciplined in just hitting the right line and letting the pitch do the work for England there's been too many loose deliveries that have let them score cheap runs. In such a tight game even 5-6 cheap boundaries is game changing.
Well batting is so often about partnerships. I don't think there were too many concerns about the pitch when Crawley was moving his feet and driving nicely to various parts of the ground.
I wonder if the pink ball is actually part of the issue - they were talking about the lacquer and how it can be very skiddy.
I agree the pink ball played a part and the extra lacquer on it probably added to the problems. I think what was happening is some were gripping heavily the dust and getting big turn and losing pace and others were skidding on and coming off the pitch faster than expected. With his flat action that was particularly important for Axar. I'd like to see some side-by-sides of how quickly the straight ones got from the pitch to the stumps compared to the ones that spun, I reckon it'll be a significant change.
All in I think it was a bit of a perfect storm of everything working to make it a bowlers dream.
The reason it's a two day Test is that the both the pitch and the batting are not good enough. From both sides, but equally both sides have been imprisoned by a terror of a surface.The showcasing of world's newest and biggest capacity cricket stadium was not complemented by the most important element of any such venue, the pitch itself. Having spent enormous millions on the stadium they produced a pith more akin to any neglected maidan in Delhi or Lahore where young lads are found honing their skills in dusty potholes. Not good enough I am afraid.
England were piss poor - repeated unacceptable innings. Also Bairstow - what a selection.t
Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.
England do have an issue against spin. At least 3, probably 4 of the top 6 don’t appear to have a clue.
England were piss poor - repeated unacceptable innings. Also Bairstow - what a selection.t
Regardless of that India should face some sort of penalty for that pitch. I have no problem with a spinning pitch, or a seaming pitch or whatever. Home advantage is fine, but a pitch that causes a result in two days is unacceptable.
Hmmm ....... good luck with that!!
English batsmen do not play on spinning pitches in county games. The administration encourages pitches to be generally seamer friendly and flat in the county game. Somerset got penalised last season for having a pitch that suited their spinners.
Bess and Leach are products of Somerset’s academy, Bess taking the white rose dollar. Swann and Monty came through the Northamptonshire academy, starting their careers on a Wantage Road track that turned.
Moeen bowled well in the Birmingham Leagues at the age of 16 but was a batsman who could bowl when he reached the England set up, playing at Worcester and Edgbaston. Rashid became a one day bowler, as he was overlooked from about 2011 onwards. He got on pitches in Pakistan which should have suited him but he bowled as he did in England, to contain and it all went wrong.
Good young spinners do exist but get into the county circuit and have to bowl to contain on pitches suited to fast medium wobblers. As a consequence our top order (with the exception of Root) haven’t got a clue when it goes off the straight.
If you can’t bat as a left arm twirler you’re first to be dropped in league cricket, hence the bating is prioritised and the bowling takes a back seat. I read a piece about Warne in the Lancashire leagues as the overseas pro getting lambasted by the locals because he wasn’t taking wickets. He was almost dropped but got a decent couple of runs.
Breaking into the county academies is tough if you’re solely a spinner. Getting into the county team harder and making a reputation harder still. Our batsmen therefore don’t learn against the better bowlers and the national team cannot last 80 overs for 20 wickets.
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
none of that changes anything I wrote. In fact the bold bit backs it up. Even in prime conditions English pitches rarely offer a great deal, look at pretty much every home test series against sub-continent teams and their spinners have less impact. That means English spinners (and Australians and New Zealanders) rely on variations which leads to the exact problem you raise. Someone like Axar Patel, who has been destructive in the last 2 tests only needs very minor alterations to his action because he can trust the pitch to do a lot of the work for him so he is consistent as a result of the pitches he bowls on. That's why I think getting more players on those pitches would benefit us much more than changing the scheduling.
Aside from that the reason for the scheduling is because the one day formats get more fans and the summer months get more fans so it's a commercial requirement to match those up.
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
none of that changes anything I wrote. In fact the bold bit backs it up. Even in prime conditions English pitches rarely offer a great deal, look at pretty much every home test series against sub-continent teams and their spinners have less impact. That means English spinners (and Australians and New Zealanders) rely on variations which leads to the exact problem you raise. Someone like Axar Patel, who has been destructive in the last 2 tests only needs very minor alterations to his action because he can trust the pitch to do a lot of the work for him so he is consistent as a result of the pitches he bowls on. That's why I think getting more players on those pitches would benefit us much more than changing the scheduling.
Aside from that the reason for the scheduling is because the one day formats get more fans and the summer months get more fans so it's a commercial requirement to match those up.
Why do you think "prime" pitches rarely offer much?
In fact, do you think it is a coincidence that Swann, Panesar and Leach (so 3 out of 4 of our first choice spinners) learnt to bowl at grounds that encouraged spin?
As for getting our spinners to go over and play in the Asian sub continent that isn't going to happen. We could however schedule more than 2 rounds of Championship cricket for July and August though.
I think it massively matters.
We have a very small pool of spinners, and apart from Leach they hardly play / or get to bowl meaningful spells in 4 day cricket. Taunton / Ciderabad clearly does spin, and Northampton certainly used to. Spinners need overs under their belt to learn how to bowl, try variations and alter their lines and lengths. The best spinner in our domestic game is a South African, and until recently the second best was a New Zealander.
Our spinners seem to struggle to bowl a consistent line and length. Bess has fallen out of favour as he bowls too many lose deliveries, and this is one of the criticisms levelled at Moeen Ali.
The knock on effect to this is also that he batsman hardly get to face any decent spinners on turning pitches, and so the lack of opportunity to hone and perfect their technique is clear to see when they face quality spinners on a turning wicket.
none of that changes anything I wrote. In fact the bold bit backs it up. Even in prime conditions English pitches rarely offer a great deal, look at pretty much every home test series against sub-continent teams and their spinners have less impact. That means English spinners (and Australians and New Zealanders) rely on variations which leads to the exact problem you raise. Someone like Axar Patel, who has been destructive in the last 2 tests only needs very minor alterations to his action because he can trust the pitch to do a lot of the work for him so he is consistent as a result of the pitches he bowls on. That's why I think getting more players on those pitches would benefit us much more than changing the scheduling.
Aside from that the reason for the scheduling is because the one day formats get more fans and the summer months get more fans so it's a commercial requirement to match those up.
Why do you think "prime" pitches rarely offer much?
In fact, do you think it is a coincidence that Swann, Panesar and Leach (so 3 out of 4 of our first choice spinners) learnt to bowl at grounds that encouraged spin?
As for getting our spinners to go over and play in the Asian sub continent that isn't going to happen. We could however schedule more than 2 rounds of Championship cricket for July and August though.
but those players learned to spin despite a structure that you want to change and Leach has been one that has struggled, on this tour, to keep things tight with a consistent line.
Panesar was different and I'd go so far as to suggest he was unique for an English spinner in that he was better in sub-continent conditions than he was at home.
Swann was just world class, and is probably the best English spinner of all time (even if he is a twat), but lets not forget he only got into the team when he was in his late 20s, which is pretty standard for English spinners and has been for a long time.
All of this misses the point though, on a pitch like the last 2 games our batsmen wouldn't be better prepared if we played more 4 day games in July/August and our spinners wouldn't be more willing to bowl line and length because the conditions are still very different.
What your suggesting would improve the number of spinners playing in the county game, which would be great, but it wouldn't make poor displays like we saw less common and it would need to address the commercial issues that would come from it. I prefer the longer format but the games that are played in those months see significantly lower attendances than the t20 and OD games played at the same time, that is the factor driving the scheduling and can't be swept away by a desire to see a few English spinners around.
There was much more Championship cricket in the summer months than there is now, so the system that produced these spinners isn't the same one that we have now.
Playing on, and experiencing more turning pitches I think would improve the batsmen's skill set. It might have been the difference in getting to 200 in the first innings?
And as for spinners bowling line and length, one of Bess's issues is that the has struggled to land it in the same place, with too many 4 balls. I don't think it is a willingness issue, more an ability to do so at present.
It also is worth remembering that one of the spinners skills is an ability to tie an end and build pressure. You don't have to be turning it square to be useful. As Kohli said, 18 of the spinners wickets were with straight balls (think he was being a little provocative to be honest).
Regarding the OD, t20, Hundred etc I think anyone that follows cricket understands the commercial reasons for the prioritising of it, but quite frankly I would much rather Warwickshire won the County Championship than Birmingham (or whatever our one day name is) winning the T20. I would also much rather watch a summer of Test cricket than some meaningless 50 over games. I think there is room for both formats of the game, but I think that the balance is too far in favour of the shorter game.
Isn't it quite obvious that India shit themselves after the first test and went overboard and produced two alarmingly spinning wickets to make sure they didn't lose the series.& a road will be incoming for 4th test
I’ve been so unimpressed with our top 3 this winter. Whatever version it’s been it’s failed every time. Crawley and Sibley have about 3 reasonable scores between them. That’s not good enough.
Bored of the home Indian commentary, TBH.They are worse than Australians. I find ex Kiwi players are the best commentators and pundits.
Plenty of cheerleading and very little insight.
Bored of the home Indian commentary, TBH.They are worse than Australians. I find ex Kiwi players are the best commentators and pundits.
Plenty of cheerleading and very little insight.
Bored of the home Indian commentary, TBH.They are worse than Australians. I find ex Kiwi players are the best commentators and pundits.
Plenty of cheerleading and very little insight.
What’s the betting that when we bat we’re about 60 - 5.Not bad - 65-5. Edit. Now 65-6. This is going to end quickly and be very ugly I suspect.
Bairstow, 2 50's in 28 innings, bye bye.
The management need to work on balanced team approach. For far too long England test team has tried to rely on bit part players and trying bat deep rather than 5 1 5. 5 batsman 1 outstanding wicket keeper 5 top bowlers. The 5th bowler should be an all rounder. That’s where Stokes started but now he is under far too much pressure being England’s second best batsman and second best bowler. He will only perform at top level when test of the team is stronger. Of course that’s where the problem is. Only Root, Anderson and Foakes are test match standard other than Stokes.
The big difference for India now is they have real depth and quality in their seam attack. That will enable them to compete around the world. If they have Ishant, Bumrah, Siraj, Yadav, and Shami fit and firing this summer they’ll have a seriously dangerous attack, and some selection headaches.
Foakes is a better keeper than Buttler, but anywhere other than the sub-continent the difference doesn't matter.
Standing back, Buttler's not going to be much less effective than Foakes and, as a batsman, he's far better at shepherding the tail.
Having said that, I think that Foakes has potential to be an excellent higher order batsman if there was any way of giving him more games.
Hopefully, England won't have him sat around for another summer as a reserve and let him play some four day games for Surrey
Blimey we really thumped India today.
Blimey we really thumped India today.
We're an exceptional team in the shorter formats, that's been clear for a few years now a number English players have starred in the various t20 leagues regularly and the knock-on effect of that is that we play well in the format in almost all conditions.
should be a bonus of 6 runs because they weren't in the 20th over by the 75th minute unless they've changed that rule.
IPL seems to be very focussed on form or past performance in the IPL. Has Roy done much in it before?
You've done for Malan there Paul!!!
Not a great day for England so far but it has included an absolute belter of a catch - https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12251601/jordan-creates-remarkable-catch
Not a great day for England so far but it has included an absolute belter of a catch - https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12251601/jordan-creates-remarkable-catch
Love the look on Roy's face as he takes the flip from Jordan
Need Jof to hopefully get this elbow injury properly sorted. He’s absolutely key to the Twenty20 World Cup and the Ashes.
England were doing ok for the first 40 overs, poor from Wood who was very expensive when bowling at the death. India managed to put on over 100 runs in the last ten overs.
We just can’t deal with Thakur.
We may as well tell the boys to come home now. Utter rubbish! A terribly balanced side, with no batting depth and no guts bowling at the death.
Moeen is hitting some really fine form in the IPL.Not a great shock, seems CSK are giving him some consistency batting at 3 and using his bowling as required...England would have picked him, batted him in 3/4 different places and dropped him by now.
I understand that his father thought that he knew better than the Lancashire coaches so he was getting conflicting advice and his game suffered.
Jof’s elbow is becoming a real worry. He’s missing a lot of cricket because of it.
Is Sam Billings back up wicket-keeper? No Bairstow?
Is Sam Billings back up wicket-keeper? No Bairstow?Guessing Bracey will keep. He’s highly regarded.
Most of the IPL guys are rested.
Gutted for Foakes.
This resting the IPL players is nonsense especially for Woakes who I believe has played in about 4 20/20 games and nothing else since September.
This resting the IPL players is nonsense especially for Woakes who I believe has played in about 4 20/20 games and nothing else since September.
Yep, it should have been on a case by case basis.
I can't see any reason why Woakes shouldn't play in the NZ games
Simon Mann saying that due to bubbles, quarantine etc, it was thought that Woakes would not be match fit for a five day game
Frustrating, but understandable
Robinson is going to be in a spot of bother over these historic tweets.
Robinson is going to be in a spot of bother over these historic tweets.
I don’t care if the tweets were years ago when he was 18 or so, he should be dropped from the squad
Trouble is that the likely replacement has form as well
https://wisden.com/series-stories/england-v-new-zealand/craig-overton-ive-realised-that-you-cant-go-around-doing-what-i-was-doing-then
Trouble is that the likely replacement has form as well
https://wisden.com/series-stories/england-v-new-zealand/craig-overton-ive-realised-that-you-cant-go-around-doing-what-i-was-doing-then
Oh yes I remember those things.
Bit that really bothers me is when being 18/19 is somehow a mitigation, for racism? Give me a break.
Bumble looks like Fred Dibnah this morning.
Kiwis have been good for a while. Good balance and bat deep. Hope Ollie has a better day, he must feel like crap.
Sibley will be coming under some pressure pretty soon.
Sibley will be coming under some pressure pretty soon.
And I think when it comes to racism it steps beyond the line of being a bit naive in your youth. I just don’t buy that people think racism is a bit of a laugh in their late teens. They will definitely understand what it means and how disgraceful it is. It’s going to take a lot to prove he’s a changed man and not the ignorant twat he was 7 years ago.
I struggle to see how trust can be built and they can move past this, but we shall see.
I’m staggered the ECB don’t check into this sort of stuff too.
Play abandoned for the day without a ball being bowled
98 overs on Sat & Sun. Based on over rates on days one and two, good luck with that
Pope frustrates me. He’s clearly really talented but it’s not really clicking. He’s scored one good hundred and got a couple of other scores, but he’s had a fair bit of opportunity now and he needs to start delivering more.
Crawley and Pope are highly talented batsmen who currently lack something called nous.
Try building an innings; that might work.
Ah opinions. I think Pope is a much better long term prospect than Crawley however there is very little choice at 1,2,and 3 at the moment so England have to persevere with Crawley. On the other hand I think (our Dom) Sibley is on last chance saloon. So far 32 test matches for 877 runs at an average of 29 is simply not the best.Crawley and Pope are highly talented batsmen who currently lack something called nous.
Try building an innings; that might work.
Crawley's 267 proved that he can do this.
I know that Pope does have a Test hundred, but I'm still not convinced.
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Definitely. I said before that final and still feel that if scores are level after 50 overs, the side who took most wickets should win. Just my view.
But you're absolutely right, there was no bitching or moaning, they were true gentlemen.
In a way, it's a shame it had to be against NZ - winning in that way against Australia would've been much sweeter.
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Definitely. I said before that final and still feel that if scores are level after 50 overs, the side who took most wickets should win. Just my view.
But you're absolutely right, there was no bitching or moaning, they were true gentlemen.
In a way, it's a shame it had to be against NZ - winning in that way against Australia would've been much sweeter.
I get that point of view, but i've always felt its a false comparison given the different pressures in setting a target and chasing one.
Brilliant declaration by NZ. An attacking move that gives us a sniff and should set up a cracking couple of sessions.
It's said so often that it's become a cliche, but NZ really do play their cricket in the right way.
They really are a great bunch of lads, it was pointed out on the Guardian website how their acceptance of the World Cup Final result meant it could be enjoyed properly.
Definitely. I said before that final and still feel that if scores are level after 50 overs, the side who took most wickets should win. Just my view.
But you're absolutely right, there was no bitching or moaning, they were true gentlemen.
In a way, it's a shame it had to be against NZ - winning in that way against Australia would've been much sweeter.
Robinson suspended pending investigation.
I don't agree with this decision. He was 18/19 at the time and we all do lot of stupid things at that age but most of us come to completely regret those actions. Robinson is the same. This is show trial and the sort of decision that causes unnecessary resentment. I can see it that it sends a message to other youngsters that you would be punished but, there, awareness through education is a better method.Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
I don't agree with this decision. He was 18/19 at the time and we all do lot of stupid things at that age but most of us come to completely regret those actions. Robinson is the same. This is show trial and the sort of decision that causes unnecessary resentment. I can see it that it sends a message to other youngsters that you would be punished but, there, awareness through education is a better method.Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
I don't agree with this decision. He was 18/19 at the time and we all do lot of stupid things at that age but most of us come to completely regret those actions. Robinson is the same. This is show trial and the sort of decision that causes unnecessary resentment. I can see it that it sends a message to other youngsters that you would be punished but, there, awareness through education is a better method.Robinson suspended pending investigation.
What did he actually say/tweet?
I can't agree with the idea that this decision was over the top, etc. We're in a summer of sport where racial inequality is front and centre and this came to light at almost the same time as the England squad presenting a unity message.
Yes he was a teenager but that can't be an excuse for what were a series of horrible tweets that were offensive across a whole range of issues. As soon as they came to light the ECB had no choice but to suspend him, anything less would've shown that the unity message was nothing but empty words.
I can't agree with the idea that this decision was over the top, etc. We're in a summer of sport where racial inequality is front and centre and this came to light at almost the same time as the England squad presenting a unity message.
Yes he was a teenager but that can't be an excuse for what were a series of horrible tweets that were offensive across a whole range of issues. As soon as they came to light the ECB had no choice but to suspend him, anything less would've shown that the unity message was nothing but empty words.
This ****** disagrees, doesn't fit in with the war he and his mates are fighting I guess:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/sports-minister-oliver-dowden-says-ecb-over-the-top-to-suspend-ollie-robinson-england-cricket (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/07/sports-minister-oliver-dowden-says-ecb-over-the-top-to-suspend-ollie-robinson-england-cricket)
David Gower has piped up that Robinson should be used as an ambassador/exemplar to help others navigate social media, subsequently not having to bother with all that stopping being a racist misogynist instead.
I've just seen Michael Carberry expressing his views. He did all but call PM Johnson a racist. He is not happy.
Fair play to Carberry, I agree with him completely. Dowden and Johnson know that playing to the twats that boo taking the knee or post 'all lives matter' on facebook reinforces large parts of the new voter base.
Having reflected on all this I think the ECB’s action is correct and I also think that whoever the player is they should be afforded a second chance - provided they are genuinely remorseful and their subsequent actions prove they have become better people. That doesn’t mean being a teenager is an excuse, it isn’t, but I have to believe people can change and want to change - the alternative is very grim.
What did Morgan, Buttler and McCullum say?
I have not missed the oh so funny 'barmy army' chants.
If everyone in the crowd has been jabbed and tested and can prove it, why is it still 70% capacity, max?Not jabbed. Just tested in the previous 24 hours
I have not missed the oh so funny 'barmy army' chants.
Singing something about Ollie Robinson, if I heard correctly?
I have not missed the oh so funny 'barmy army' chants.
Singing something about Ollie Robinson, if I heard correctly?
That'd be right, I went in the Tally Ho after a test a few years ago and it was a bit "funny" but not in a good way. Lot's of rather obscure songs, I couldn't make out the lyrics but something wasn't right.
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
Making his Test debut in November 1990 just after his 20th birthday, Atapattu's first six innings yielded five ducks and a 1, and he was the first Sri Lankan batsman to be dismissed for a pair on debut. After this difficult start in his first three matches, he did not score above 29 in his next 11 innings, before hitting his first Test century in his 10th match, against India, seven years after his debut. He has 22 Test-match career ducks and four pairs (two ducks in a single Test), both records for a top-order batsman.
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
He doesn't look ready, I don't think. Looks very fragile.
Appreciate Stokes and Buttler aren’t there, but our batting looks pretty fragile at the moment.
Blimey two innings and two ducks for Bracey.
He doesn't look ready, I don't think. Looks very fragile.
Also it’s another case of dropping a player in in a role that differs from the one he was selected for. Now I’m not saying he would have fared better opening, but I do think putting a player in an unfamiliar role, or at least not the one that got him selected, doesn’t help a new player.
New Zealand are putting our batting performance into sharp focus. Again I know Stokes and Buttler aren’t there, but we look bloody ordinary with the bat.
I won’t count Lawrence in this, because he hasn’t played enough. But Sibley, Crawley, Burns, and Pope have all played a good number of Tests now. The least is Crawley with 13 and they all average about 30. There’s no great mystery as to why we’re struggling when 4 of your top 6 over a period of time average 30 odd.
Obviously Burns is in good nick at the moment and the others are young, but bloody hell the returns need to start appearing fast.
Also not picking a spinner doesn’t work.
Regulation catch dropped by Root hasn't helped at all, plus that 'catch' by Broad should've stood; how dumb that technology didn’t intervene.I might be late to this conversation but if you mean the catch by Crawley off Broad my view from the ground and as an ex-player (albeit of modest standard) was that it was a clean catch and should have been given. That said - as soon as it’s referred and viewed on a 2D image it’s never going to be given. The only comfort is the old adage that there are enough of these to even themselves out.
I agree with the comments about the batsmen but part of me wonders who we replace them with?
I’d stick with this line up with added Stokes, Buttler, Moeen and Bairstow to select from for the rest of this year including the Ashes. Chopping and changing the line up doesn’t help.
But putting aside our shortfalls how bloody brilliant are New Zealand? 6 changes, including arguably their finest ever batsman, and still massively impressive. The depth they’ve developed from a fairly small pool is remarkable and the quality in the team is excellent.
Also, this wicketkeeper Bracey looks poor.
Another dropped catch, albeit difficult. Also, this wicketkeeper Bracey looks poor.
Another dropped catch, albeit difficult. Also, this wicketkeeper Bracey looks poor.
Well that’s just it he’s not a bloody wicketkeeper. He does keep wicket a bit, but there’s a difference. It’s a poor and damaging selection for him.
Bracey is useless! Poor Olly Stone, he should have 3 wickets now. England's catching has been awful.
Blimey, I nip out for an hour and we slip to 59 for 5. Utter shite. Time to review some of these players if we ever want to get to number one in the world. I fear for us against the Aussies if we play like this.
What a terrible day! I was there yesterday and had some ambitious thoughts about turning up on Monday to see it finished. Thanks England. >:(
I think one of the most concerning things is the muddled thinking that’s evident. Examples -
- Bracey brought into squad to be the extra batsman. Foakes gets injured and they decide - ah well Bracey can keep a bit we’ll chuck him into an unfamiliar position and thus confuse him and ratchet up the pressure.
- No spinner picked in first game, not particularly successful. A baked Edgbaston pitch and again fail to choose a spinner and end up with two part timers bowling, who get belted around the park.
Didn't even make it to 11am - the official start time.And a complete bummer for Barmy Army's traditional rendition of Jerusalem after the first ball of the day.
Didn't even make it to 11am - the official start time.And a complete bummer for Barmy Army's traditional rendition of Jerusalem after the first ball of the day.
Something good always comes out of bad as they say Rory ;D
Less than 15 overs played so full refunds all round. Useless tossers couldn't even drag it out long enough to make Warwickshire a few quid...Yes that's the most annoying thing about this. The first time in few years hosting a test match the weather is great and County has a chance to make some money over 5 days and incompetent buffoons fuck it up.
I think one shift that’s created imbalance is the apparent decision that Broad and Anderson are going to play together. That’s fine, but you can’t then mix it with their desire to have a fast attack, because it means your suddenly forced to have four seamers and no spinner to carry to workload.
I think rotating Jimmy and Broad makes sense at this stage and I get the impression someone doesn’t want to make the tough call so is fudging it.
I think one shift that’s created imbalance is the apparent decision that Broad and Anderson are going to play together. That’s fine, but you can’t then mix it with their desire to have a fast attack, because it means your suddenly forced to have four seamers and no spinner to carry to workload.
I think rotating Jimmy and Broad makes sense at this stage and I get the impression someone doesn’t want to make the tough call so is fudging it.
[url][/url]I think one shift that’s created imbalance is the apparent decision that Broad and Anderson are going to play together. That’s fine, but you can’t then mix it with their desire to have a fast attack, because it means your suddenly forced to have four seamers and no spinner to carry to workload.
I think rotating Jimmy and Broad makes sense at this stage and I get the impression someone doesn’t want to make the tough call so is fudging it.
Think it is the absence of Stokes that causes the imbalance Paul, as we don't have another all-rounder who can be the 4th seamer and bat in the top six. Moeen Ali's decline in form has meant we haven't got a spinner who could possibly bat in the top six either, so it then becomes a problem to find that balance.
With both Sam Curran and Woakes not available, the option of batting a seamer at seven and moving the keeper up to six was gone as well.
Broad and Jimmy are both still world class, but I don't think they offer the variety anymore. There's nothing wrong with selecting one or the other.
I agree with Paul that Woakes should be an absolute necessity if Stokes is out. I love Woakesy, and I'd have him involved most tests, so bias admitted.
Unless you're playing at Chester Le-Street in April, you have a spinner. Simple as that.
All this talk about 'balance of the team'. I'm sorry, but I think I'd be happier if we played Root, a specialist 'keeper and 9 bowlers. I just don't see what we actually gain by thinking 'our batting is shite, so let's have as many batters as possible'.
I think for the short/medium term Malan would be a good option at 3. He’s got big runs for Yorks, he has successfully recent international experience (albeit in 20/20, but it’ll help his belief), and he’s scored runs in Australia. I’d be confident he could do a decent job for the next 18 months or so.
It’s really poor that it’s a used pitch.
India struggling. NZ could win this
India struggling. NZ could win this
I hope so, I love the way they play the game.
Even England will feel confident to chase this down.
Go on the Kiwi’s.
T20 vs Sri Lanka
Well lawks a-mercy, what a world we live in. Chris Woakes is 32 and is going grey.
In case anyone was unaware, the England v Sri Lanka T20 this evening is on BBC2.
T20 vs Sri Lanka
Well lawks a-mercy, what a world we live in. Chris Woakes is 32 and is going grey.
.....and rested after one game back
Some kind of token effort from SL would be nice
It’s good to see international cricket back on terrestrial television but it’s all a bit TMS on TV. I’m a huge fan of TMS, I probably listen to more international cricket than I watch on TV but Sky’s TV coverage is so much better.
I don’t mind Tufnell, he plays the clown a bit but I do find him entertaining and I actually think that he does have a lot of knowledge.
Superb. Finally the good guys come first in cricket. Well done the Kiwis.
(https://i.ibb.co/WK3J5Tp/5ea443e7-6df8-4c01-8441-cd97427c90c6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WK3J5Tp)
Malan proving (something he’s expected to do far too often) why he’s an absolute must pick.
Kyle Jamieson’s stats in Test cricket so far are bonkers. 46 wickets in 8 Tests at 14!
I don’t think it’s that straightforward. Sri Lanka at Southampton is about as far from the sharp end of a world t20 in UAE v India / WI / Aus as you could get. His failures in India do raise questions about his role especially when rivals for the job (Root / Livingstone) offer more to the side than just batting in those conditions.Malan proving (something he’s expected to do far too often) why he’s an absolute must pick.
Makes the comments from Vaughan about putting Stokes at 3 look all the more stupid as well, which is great.
Malan proving (something he’s expected to do far too often) why he’s an absolute must pick.
10 overs, 4 for 18
How is Woakes not the first name on the team sheet in all formats ?
10 overs, 4 for 18
How is Woakes not the first name on the team sheet in all formats ?
10 overs, 4 for 18
How is Woakes not the first name on the team sheet in all formats ?
That is brilliant bowling. I can't believe England don't use him more.
England naming entire new squad for Pakistan after seven positive Covid tests.
England naming entire new squad for Pakistan after seven positive Covid tests.
Morgan must be one of them, because Stokes will be captain.
Good chance to give a few different players a run out. Something that's unlikely with Morgan as captain
The England ODI machine keeps rolling on. I've seen Mahmood play in a few domestic games on TV this season and he has looked a real handful, so good to see him get a chance. Also good to see Parkinson get a chance and take a couple of wickets, as a leggy comes in handy in ODI cricket.Agree about Mahmood. Hoping Will Jacks gets a go in at least one of the next two also. Parkinson’s fielding however is nowhere near the required standard and will hold him back if he can’t improve that.
I was hoping to watch on TV after work yesterday. Could have done without England being so clinical. Game was over before I logged off my PC
I was hoping to watch on TV after work yesterday. Could have done without England being so clinical. Game was over before I logged off my PCNormally it’s a problem for visiting teams especially those from the sub continent to adjust to the English conditions but COVID restrictions have made that problem much much worse. We saw this with Sri Lanka’s performance. Whilst their team is in transition they were totally ill prepared to face England. Same will happen to Pakistan as they have played little or no cricket since arriving here. I have tickets for Tuesday at Edgbaston and hoping that it is a more competitive match🤞
You've done well thereI was hoping to watch on TV after work yesterday. Could have done without England being so clinical. Game was over before I logged off my PCNormally it’s a problem for visiting teams especially those from the sub continent to adjust to the English conditions but COVID restrictions have made that problem much much worse. We saw this with Sri Lanka’s performance. Whilst their team is in transition they were totally ill prepared to face England. Same will happen to Pakistan as they have played little or no cricket since arriving here. I have tickets for Tuesday at Edgbaston and hoping that it is a more competitive match🤞
That match at Edgbaston was a marvellous palette cleanser after the last couple of days, wonderful sport, good natured crowd, lovely weather and a fitting tribute to Bob Willis.
Ben Stokes, who stood in for Morgan as skipper against Pakistan, is rested along with Mark Wood, Chris Woakes and Sam Curran, but Jos Buttler returns having recovered from a calf injury, while 20-over regular Dawid Malan keeps his usual spot.
What exactly is Chris Woakes 'resting' from.Rest. He has had far too much rest of late and that can be stressful.
Hell of a catch by Rashid off his own bowling.
Eng squad for first two Tests against India
England squad: Joe Root (Yorkshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Dom Bess (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Sam Curran (Surrey), Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham)
Woakes misses out through injury. He really needs to play less cricket ::)
Eng squad for first two Tests against India
England squad: Joe Root (Yorkshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire), Dom Bess (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Rory Burns (Surrey), Jos Buttler (Lancashire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Sam Curran (Surrey), Haseeb Hameed (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Dom Sibley (Warwickshire), Ben Stokes (Durham), Mark Wood (Durham)
Woakes misses out through injury. He really needs to play less cricket ::)
I might be wide of the mark here but I can't help feeling that Woakes is currently going through the sort of situation where he's so desperate to prove his fitness that he's over doing it in training and making things worse. England really should have just said they were resting him for the entire summer because that's what's happened now anyway but by making him go to camps and carry drinks they've effectively taken him out of contention for Warks as well.
Seems strange hope he’s ok.
Another fine start by our openers. I predict Crawley gets less than 10.
Glad he’s proved me wrong thus far.
Glad he’s proved me wrong thus far.
Who? The bloke who got caught behind a few minutes after your post ? :)
Yep I’m getting pretty fed up with the sub par Test side. The top 3 is consistently failing. The middle order rarely produces and the selection is always off. Failing to pick a spinner is a mistake we keep making. Also I’ve come to the point where it doesn’t make sense to me to select Jimmy and Broad in the same side.
We’re a mess.
Just got back. Very poor. Not a fan of an lbw umpires call on height in the first over of a match to be honest. Batting woeful though notwithstanding that. When was the last time Buttler hit a red ball before today ? And a few others. Four 0’s in the top 9 !
We look in poor shape for Australia, but Robinson looks a good bowler.I reckon bowling will be ok come end of the year however batting is very fragile for a test team so it's not going to be pretty in Australia.
I fear for this series and the Ashes, it’s getting back to 1990’s levels of ineptitude. As memorable as the World Cup win was, it’s clearly come at the expense of test cricket.
I went yesterday and we looked a poor, sloppy team in the field with no spark. Broad I reckon is gone and if Archer was fit shouldn't be in the Test team.
However, the biggest concern is the batting. Simply not good enough at the top of the order. If the Ashes goes ahead this winter, we're going to be blown away.
Looks like Broad is out of the Second Test and there's doubts over Jimmy as well
Saqib Mahmood called up
It’s looking grim here.
It’s looking grim here.
Agreed. That first session featured some abysmal bowling - fractionally short and didn’t amend their lengths until the ball stopped moving about.
Didn’t really seem to be a bowling plan as such.
India all out for 364.
Um…..well…… that didn’t go to plan Haseeb :(
Kind of need to be hitting a ball heading for middle stump
Brilliant morning.
Joe Root is finally delivering on his unbelievable potential. What a player.
How the fuck does Bumrah get the pace and accuracy he does from that run-up? He looks like a hungover trundler, then he's suddenly at 85mph top of off.
From Zaltz........
England's top scorers this year are Root and Burns. The former has over 800 more runs than the latter
Burns and Sibley combined this year have more ducks than Sir Chef had in his entire Test career
Still, good news that the ECB are really happy with the way the Hundred is going.
Still, good news that the ECB are really happy with the way the Hundred is going.
It’s weird to say after scoring 9, but he looked alright there given the context of the situation.
It’s weird to say after scoring 9, but he looked alright there given the context of the situation.
Apart from the edge to slip which should have been taken when he was on about 3 or 4.
It’s weird to say after scoring 9, but he looked alright there given the context of the situation.
Apart from the edge to slip which should have been taken when he was on about 3 or 4.
Yeah but that can happen.
This needs fundamental change. We’re falling behind in this form of the game and it’s unacceptable. Look at NZ and the resources they have.
Wood out of the Third Test
Best day I can remember since Melbourne 2010.
Best day I can remember since Melbourne 2010.
what you doing here? You should be preparing to bat in the morning.
Bat all day please England, what an incredible day yesterday.
5 sessions of textbook test match cricket from England. Shane Warne has just said commentary that they have to be ruthless now and not allow the Indians a glimmer of hope.
Looking forward to seeing Bairstow, Buttler and Ali hopefully coming in with a big lead on the board and being able to really attack.
Good to get past the 400 mark psychologically.
But it says a lot about the fragility of this England batting line up that there's even an element of doubt about the result still.
We scored over 300 runs in the day, that’s something that we haven’t done for a long time!
I’d declare overnight to make best use of the early morning conditions which tend to be seam friendly at Headingley. We have enough runs in the bank.
Agreed we are still very much the favourites but that was a bad day. At least I will have some cricket to watch tomorrow on the bright side.Hope you’re enjoying. Not much better than England’s bowlers on a roll.
Meanwood Villa, I think you get your money back?
Decent recovery from Bairstow and Pope
Yep we’ll be 3 down before we hit 20 no doubt.Nil desperandum! England only need to better their highest ever successful run chase! ::)
Apologies for repetition German James!Great minds etc!
I'm going for 180 all out
291 is too many to get in a day I feel. Would need a one-day Malan at his best type innings to win this.
291 is too many to get in a day I feel. Would need a one-day Malan at his best type innings to win this.
Annoying time for Burns to get out. We don’t want to give India a sniff.
I haven't had the radio on for a while, but that sounds like a Zaltz stat
I’m going with Hameed’s fault. It was too tight, risk versus reward wasn’t right.
Collapsing like this is bad enough on any surface, but to do it on one as docile as this is a new level of pathetic. Even from this ridiculously laughable England batting line up
Also who is coaching our fielding? We drop a lot of catches and we virtually never hit the stumps with throws. It costs us lots of runs.
The Ashes …
Who keeps? Buttler probably not going, the selectors don’t seem to like Foakes preferring Bracey!
Pretty obvious what needs to be done. Get rid of the County Championship and add a few more tournaments that will interest people who don't really like cricket. Suggestions for name: "The Fifty", "The Ten", "The One", "The Coin Toss".
Yesterday was disappointing but both tests we've lost this series we've been in them. This is probably the best Indian team in history and they haven't dominated us. In fact, rain permitting, I fancy us to bounce back next test.
Not a chance we'll win in Australia mind, but that's a once in a generation thing at the best of times.
The 5th test has been called off due to Covid in the Indian squad/backroom staff.
The 5th test has been called off due to Covid in the Indian squad/backroom staff.
Thought their players all took pcr's yesterday and they were negative?
Seems to me the marginalisation of Test cricket continues, as IPL looms on the horizon.
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.Never mind ICC who are gutless what about ECB?
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.
Haven't the BCCCI got the majority on the ICC so i doubt it.
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.Never mind ICC who are gutless what about ECB?
ECB have capitulated already by considering BCCI offer to reschedule. Obviously when it suits Indian players😳
Absolute disgrace from the Indian team and management. Basically sacked off a test match 2 hours before it starts in order to protect their IPL involvement. I'm sure a really firm punishment will be forthcoming from the ICC.Never mind ICC who are gutless what about ECB?
ECB have capitulated already by considering BCCI offer to reschedule. Obviously when it suits Indian players😳
Not sure there was much the ECB could have done when they were informed 2 hours before the start of play that the Indians weren't playing.Errrm…yes they should ask for forfeiture as opposition have not met the requirement and rules are clear. By entering into negotiations to reschedule they are compromised and made it easier for ICC to call the match void.
Not sure there was much the ECB could have done when they were informed 2 hours before the start of play that the Indians weren't playing.Errrm…yes they should ask for forfeiture as opposition have not met the requirement and rules are clear. By entering into negotiations to reschedule they are compromised and made it easier for ICC to call the match void.
Not sure there was much the ECB could have done when they were informed 2 hours before the start of play that the Indians weren't playing.Errrm…yes they should ask for forfeiture as opposition have not met the requirement and rules are clear. By entering into negotiations to reschedule they are compromised and made it easier for ICC to call the match void.
I was thinking of starting a thread about great commentators across sports. He was in there. Bugger.
The New Zealand Government have this morning cancelled NZ's tour to Pakistan citing the increased threat in Pakistan.Be surprised if England go there now.
Literally pulled the plug about 45 minutes before first ODI was about to start.
Shame was looking forward to some cricket to watch today.....safety must come first.
Quite.
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/george-dobell-ecb-hypocrisy-and-double-standards-in-pakistan-tour-cancellation-could-lose-them-friends-1278788
England netball tour of Australia called off due to Covid regulations. Not sure how The Ashes is still expected to go ahead?
Doesn't look like Mo is going to play a lot of red ball cricket next season according to the BBC report. The Pears could do with a decent number three batsman and a useful spinner. With Leach stepping down as captain, Gidman should fuck off, but before he does that, he needs to ask Mo to take over as captain.
As strong a side as we could select, but you feel that Stokes and Archer not being available are hammer blows to our hopes.
I don't suppose any of The Ashes are going to be day nighters? It would be nice to, at least, listen to a bit of it live.
Watching the Sunrisers in the IPL and they’ve got this 21 year old Umran Malik who’s hurtling them down at 93 mph! If he keeps fit he’s going to be a menace.
Ta. You're probably right, I can't say I'm overly confident. One away win in the thirty odd years I've been watching, and we've been hammered more times than we have even still been in the series with a test two go.
Ta. You're probably right, I can't say I'm overly confident. One away win in the thirty odd years I've been watching, and we've been hammered more times than we have even still been in the series with a test two go.
If we'd had Anderson, Broad, Stone, Woakes, Archer, Wood, Leach to choose from, I'd be relatively confident in our bowling. I cannot see any configuration of batters that would do a good enough job down there. Glad Malan was selected but we just do not have runs in us.
I know external factors have played a huge part, but this whole idea of planning ahead, rotating and building towards this series couldn't have gone much worse, in my view. Avoiding a whitewash would be an achievement for me right now.
Ta. You're probably right, I can't say I'm overly confident. One away win in the thirty odd years I've been watching, and we've been hammered more times than we have even still been in the series with a test two go.
If we'd had Anderson, Broad, Stone, Woakes, Archer, Wood, Leach to choose from, I'd be relatively confident in our bowling. I cannot see any configuration of batters that would do a good enough job down there. Glad Malan was selected but we just do not have runs in us.
I know external factors have played a huge part, but this whole idea of planning ahead, rotating and building towards this series couldn't have gone much worse, in my view. Avoiding a whitewash would be an achievement for me right now.
With our previous bowling struggles in Australia well known and with Archer and Stone already ruled out, I really thought they would have given someone like Mahmood a chance this summer with an eye on the Ashes.
I think Anderson, Robinson and Wood looks the best bet, with Woakes possibly playing as an all-rounder. Think our spin options will get slaughtered.
I think Kerrigan played in a home test, the last one of the series.
The wheels always come off at the end of the Ashes tour. I wonder how many players have been given debuts and have subsequently gone on to play less than 5 Tests (in some cases no more than 1). I can think of Crane, Borthwick, Rankin, Tom Curran (think he debuted before the last Test). It just feels like all sensible decision making goes out of the window.
Personally I think our team looks pretty ordinary for the conditions. I can almost guarantee we won’t play a spinner in the first test.
The wheels always come off at the end of the Ashes tour. I wonder how many players have been given debuts and have subsequently gone on to play less than 5 Tests (in some cases no more than 1). I can think of Crane, Borthwick, Rankin, Tom Curran (think he debuted before the last Test). It just feels like all sensible decision making goes out of the window.
Personally I think our team looks pretty ordinary for the conditions. I can almost guarantee we won’t play a spinner in the first test.
I’ve made a bet with an Aussie mate that in the potential 10 innings in this series, England will score 200+ on no more than 4 occasions.
I’ve made a bet with an Aussie mate that in the potential 10 innings in this series, England will score 200+ on no more than 4 occasions.
Scarily plausible. If Root has a bad tour, it could be a massacre.
BT Sport have been showing highlights of the 2010 Ashes. Today I watched 2 hours of unadulterated pleasure - the 4th Test.
83,000 at the MCG Boxing Day
An amazing top order (England): Cook, Strauss, Trott, Pieterson, Bell
Tim Tremlett: forgotten about him. He’s enormous too
Aussies get pulverised
I’ve made a bet with an Aussie mate that in the potential 10 innings in this series, England will score 200+ on no more than 4 occasions.
Ireland look to be on their way out
EDIT.....They're out
England v India 5th Test rearranged for just before next season's white-ball gamesTotally annoying that ECB have not made then concede. And to pour more salt on it we had tickets for the 1st test at Edgbaston against SA and now it's going to be the arrogant ****** taking that slot and SA test is moved to Old Trafford.
England v India 2022 - revised schedule
1-5 July: Fifth Test, Edgbaston
7 July: First T20, Ageas Bowl
9 July: Second T20, Edgbaston
10 July: Third T20, Trent Bridge
12 July: First ODI, Kia Oval
14 July: Second ODI, Lord's
17 July: Third ODI, Emirates Old Trafford
England v India 5th Test rearranged for just before next season's white-ball gamesTotally annoying that ECB have not made then concede. And to pour more salt on it we had tickets for the 1st test at Edgbaston against SA and now it's going to be the arrogant ****** taking that slot and SA test is moved to Old Trafford.
England v India 2022 - revised schedule
1-5 July: Fifth Test, Edgbaston
7 July: First T20, Ageas Bowl
9 July: Second T20, Edgbaston
10 July: Third T20, Trent Bridge
12 July: First ODI, Kia Oval
14 July: Second ODI, Lord's
17 July: Third ODI, Emirates Old Trafford
To be honest winning in 8 overs has massively put our net run rate over the top. If we’re in a position where it matters I think we’ll be ahead of anyone else.
To be honest winning in 8 overs has massively put our net run rate over the top. If we’re in a position where it matters I think we’ll be ahead of anyone else.
Agreed Paul. Lost two or three more wickets than would've been ideal, but it's a brilliant start.
Fecking Danny fecking Morrison commentating in the T20 World Cup.
Why do they do this ?
Good start. Mon Pakistan. Think I dislike India as much as the Aussies these days. It's a disgrace that the ICC allow them to pick and choose which teams they play tests against.Wow...a thrashing of epic scale for the arrogant fuckers. 10 wickets and 11 balls to spare. It's been a fun afternoon this and stuff at OT.
Good start. Mon Pakistan. Think I dislike India as much as the Aussies these days. It's a disgrace that the ICC allow them to pick and choose which teams they play tests against.Wow...a thrashing of epic scale for the arrogant fuckers. 10 wickets and 11 balls to spare. It's been a fun afternoon this and stuff at OT.
Stokes is going to the Ashes - hope he’s fully mentally ready, but if he is that’s great news.I think he will be - as on the face of it, there was no pressure on him to do this so hopefully he put a lot of thought into it.
Ahem, still scored more runs than England.And put West Indies in their place with those last 5 runs.
Scotland cricket team putting in a Scotland football team type performance.
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
Reckon Pakistan will win the cup, look strong in all departments.
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping point for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping point for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
Impressive from England again. You’d imagine that if we beat Australia on Saturday we’ll almost be through.
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping Zpoint for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
It's pretty pathetic that any player goes out of their way to avoid showing solidarity with victims of racism. It's particularly repugnant given his country's history. It is entirely understandable that South Africa want to show the world that those days are behind them, and he's an arse for opposing their efforts.
All players in just about every international sport have been required to stand respectfully during their (and their opponents') national anthem for years. Basically none of them ever seemed to have a problem with their liberty being restricted then.
If the tipping Zpoint for him is when his cricket board asks him to show solidarity with victims of racism, including Apartheid, then it is him that is the problem, not the cricket board or the ICC.
Turns out that he is mixed race and his issue was with the authorities in SA instructing players that they had to do something. Glad it has been resolved though, as he is a terrific cricketer and the tournament is better with him involved.
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
Thanks for the insight, Tom.
You'd think they would've worked this out beforehand. It's not turned out well for them, bit of a PR fuck up.
If the BBC are correct, it sounds like it could be a bit of friction between CSA (who allow kneeling, a fist salute or standing to attention) and the ICC (who presumably are requesting players take a knee).
Unless he has a very good reason, Quinton appears to be a bit of a Kock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59051327
It’s baffling. Whether you think the gesture is worthwhile or not you must feel really strongly about something to remove yourself from the World Cup. I can’t see it meaning anything other than what you’d think it means.
Agreed Paul. Unless his entire family were killed while taking mass, I cannot understand his decision.
If it's gesture politics, along the lines of 'I don't kneel for any man' then he's hardly Muhammad Ali. It's not as if he's required to sacrifice white children for Kwanzaa.
The cricket captain of a country with a deeply racist past (and present) choosing not to make a gesture of solidarity with his teammates and countrymen - well, it's not a good look.
I'd be ashamed if Root or Morgan did the same without extraordinary mitigation.
Someone saying on the radio earlier that he has a history of being supportive to players from other ethnic backgrounds and working in communities.
Perhaps he doesn't feel that the cricket authorities should be ordering the team and him as captain, to do things. I went over there to watch England last year and it was clear that there were major issues between the cricketing authorities and players, which seemingly haven't been resolved since.
Thanks for the insight, Tom.
You'd think they would've worked this out beforehand. It's not turned out well for them, bit of a PR fuck up.
If the BBC are correct, it sounds like it could be a bit of friction between CSA (who allow kneeling, a fist salute or standing to attention) and the ICC (who presumably are requesting players take a knee).
All a bit of a PR disaster. Personally I don't think any team or association should be forcing players to take the knee though. It makes the gesture less powerful if people know that some people are doing who don't really want to, and it brings out the possibility of situations like this. You'd hope that most people would want to because they're decent people, but if they're not, let them out themselves.
I think the Aussie game will be tricky. But they’ve virtually got their Test seam attack playing - they’re brilliant bowlers - but I feel like in short format they can be predictable and got at.
Woakes was brilliant in that innings and that catch was fucking incredible.
Another great win, just hope we have not peaked yet.
Another impressive performance from England earlier today. The tone was set in the first few overs of the game when Warner and then Smith were sent packing.That is such a lovely phrase.
It’s the lack of awareness of 20/20 bowling that surprises me. It’s like Australia think about the game in a way that is 15 years out of date.
It’s the lack of awareness of 20/20 bowling that surprises me. It’s like Australia think about the game in a way that is 15 years out of date.
I think they feel pressure to pick their stars. You play Cummins or Hazlewood, not both. As you said earlier, they're quality with the red ball because of their accuracy, but neither of them have great variety.
Starc is quality but I don't rate Zampa and think they need to make better use of Stoinis and Maxwell. Neither of them are in the team for batting alone, so they should be go-to bowlers in the middle overs, freeing up a space for another bat.
Who that is, I don't know, but tonight they were short of runs. Another 25 and psychologically the chase becomes harder and they might've been competitive.
Having said that, Buttler is possibly the best t20 batsman in the world when on form. One over from Woakes and one from Jordan aside, we bowled brilliantly, we fielded brilliantly, batted brilliantly and a crushing win is good enough for me!
Hilarious that India got thumped.
Will be pissed off if Scotland lose to that shower.
Brilliant captaincy from Morgan with his field placings. Defending a target on that pitch can't be easy with the amount of dew around but England just seem to have everything working correctly right now.
Will be pissed off if Scotland lose to that shower.
Sorry to say it, mate, but they will.
Will be pissed off if Scotland lose to that shower.
Sorry to say it, mate, but they will.
It might rain 🤞
Morgan is a brilliant captain. I think he’ll be a top class coach if he wants to be.
Brilliant captaincy from Morgan with his field placings. Defending a target on that pitch can't be easy with the amount of dew around but England just seem to have everything working correctly right now.
Brilliant captaincy from Morgan with his field placings. Defending a target on that pitch can't be easy with the amount of dew around but England just seem to have everything working correctly right now.
Long On, Long Off, with another fielder in between at well….just ‘Long’ ……and the ball is hit straight to the latter.
Pre-tournament, Morgan’s dodgy batting meant that he wasn’t really worth his place in the team, but moments like this are genius captaincy. Plus, a decent forty that might mean he’s finally coming back into form.
So impressive from England so far this tournament. My nagging fear is being the best team in the tournament then putting in an inexplicably crap performance in one of the knockout games
Former England cricketer Gary Ballance has admitted using a racial slur against ex-Yorkshire teammate Azeem Rafiq.
In a statement the batsman, who played 23 Test matches for England, said he regretted using the word.
He said: "I am aware of how hurtful the racial slur is and I regret that I used this word in immature exchanges in my younger years and I am sure Rafa feels the same about some of the things he said to me as well."
That's a terrible statement. Sack the twat.
I’m staggered by the awfulness of Yorkshire’s handling of this. How did they think this would just go away without consequence?
I’m staggered by the awfulness of Yorkshire’s handling of this. How did they think this would just go away without consequence?
You mean you don't have faith in an organisation that said had he still been a player they would've punished Rafiq in this situation because he called Ballance a Zimbo?
I’m staggered by the awfulness of Yorkshire’s handling of this. How did they think this would just go away without consequence?
You mean you don't have faith in an organisation that said had he still been a player they would've punished Rafiq in this situation because he called Ballance a Zimbo?
Is that what they said, bloody hell. We've got a girl from Zimbabwe who helps us with babysitting and the kids' horses etc, and we went to her 21st birthday party last week. Loads of people from Zim there, and Zimbo is just a slang term like Aussie or Brit. I'm not aware there are any negative connotations to the word, and I heard it used several times at the party last week.
The panel go on to state that Rafiq might be "expected to take such comments in the spirit in which they were intended (i.e. good natured banter between friends)… [so] it was not reasonable for Azeem to have been offended by [the other player] directing equally offensive or derogatory comments back at him in the same spirit of friendly banter".
Rafiq was also accused by the panel of using "offensive, racially derogatory comments" when referring to a player of Zimbabwean heritage as "Zimbo from Zimbabwe".
The panel reportedly recommended that - were Rafiq still a Yorkshire player - he should face disciplinary action for using the term.
They've had international matches taken off them, at least for now.
Vaughan mow implicated in report, thought he was a bit quiet on the issue
Example below (if you read his deleted Tweet in the replies). Racist arseholeism for beginners.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/867419786569035779
Well, thanks a fucking lot West Indies. Relying on England throwing the South Africa game to knock the Aussies out, then.The Aussies have beaten South Africa so they will go though even if SA beat England. Because all 3 teams in that scenario would have beaten each other run rate will come into play. England and Australia qualify.
SA are going to put on a big score here. Will be tough because they’ve got some excellent boilers.And their grillers are not bad either.
England through.
South Africa eliminated.I think it will be England v Australia final.
Probable semi-finals:
England vs New Zealand
Pakistan vs Australia
South Africa eliminated.I think it will be England v Australia final.
Probable semi-finals:
England vs New Zealand
Pakistan vs Australia
That said, I wouldn't be amazed to see Afghanistan surprise New Zealand and let India back into it.Noooooooooo. That must not happen. The worst of all possibilities is India Australia final.
That said, I wouldn't be amazed to see Afghanistan surprise New Zealand and let India back into it.Noooooooooo. That must not happen. The worst of all possibilities is India Australia final.
Group winners should automatically be able to decide whether they want to bat or bowl, IMO.
Still in the balance here.
All credit to New Zealand, but those were three disastrous overs from Rashid, Jordan and Woakes. Must have been 60+ runs off them?
It’s galling that this bang average Aussie side is going to win the World Cup. In general the best 50 over side win the 50 over World Cup - Twenty20 it often doesn’t work like that.The worst possible outcome. I now remember why I hate their cricket arrogance so much. They had been awful really awful in the year or so before the tournament and now...champions. :'(
It’s galling that this bang average Aussie side is going to win the World Cup. In general the best 50 over side win the 50 over World Cup - Twenty20 it often doesn’t work like that.The worst possible outcome. I now remember why I hate their cricket arrogance so much. They had been awful really awful in the year or so before the tournament and now...champions. :'(
Tim Paine has stood down as captain just before the ashes start. Historical texts to blame
Sadly he’s still going to play in the ashes ( further revelations notwithstanding )
Cricket in a mess at the moment. The ECB must get a grip and set an example to the ICC.
Cricket in a mess at the moment. The ECB must get a grip and set an example to the ICC.
Michael Vaughan is coming across as a complete arsehole. Having seen him out and about here, he comes across as an arrogant dick normally too. Never seen him be racist, but he's a history of dodgy tweets and comments, not sure why he thinks people will believe him that he didn't say what four other guys have stated he said.
Ajaz Patel of New Zealand becomes only the third bowler to take all 10 wickets in an innings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59485301
Pity the New Zealand batsmen couldn’t help him - 62 All Out
Ajaz Patel of New Zealand becomes only the third bowler to take all 10 wickets in an innings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59485301
Pity the New Zealand batsmen couldn’t help him - 62 All Out
Alas 69-0 :(
I’d go:
Burns
Hameed
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Robinson
Wood
Anderson
. He took 4 out of the 7 Indian second innings to fall. 14 out of 17 in the match - not a bad ratio!Alas 69-0 :(
Oops…….typo by me
I meant 69-0
I can’t see the Ashes ending well. We will really miss Archer, him and Wood together would have enabled us to fight fire with fire. Unfortunately the rest of our attack is too “English”. They’re great in home conditions but once the shine goes off the Kookaburra ball in Oz they struggle.
I think Robinson could do well. My one question with him is fitness - you saw in the summer after multiple spells, particularly across consecutive matches, he drops off - going from 82/83 mph to about 77/78 mph, which is a big difference. He’s a talented bowler, but I’m not entirely convinced he’s in as good shape as he could be.
If the pitch is green (as is being suggested) then Woakes could play a massive part.
I’d play Wood as a point of difference, but I think swing/seam could play a bigger part than normal in this series. Particularly if there ends up being two pink ball games. Key bit for us is getting big runs, if we don’t do that it won’t matter who we pick.
I've absolutely no confidence in our batting whatsoever, and think we'll get smashed.
I've absolutely no confidence in our batting whatsoever, and think we'll get smashed.
This. Can't believe people are convincing themselves we've got a chance.
I've absolutely no confidence in our batting whatsoever, and think we'll get smashed.
This. Can't believe people are convincing themselves we've got a chance.
Shit. It’s not on NowTV!!! Bloody BT Sport
Questionable decision to bat first and then the worst start possible with Burns getting bowled first ball of the series by a leg stump half volley. Hate to be pessimistic, but think the tone for the series is already set.
Burns in particular is a dreadfully poor batsman at this level to play the number of Test's that he has.
Poor technique and absolutely no idea where his stumps are.
Burns in particular is a dreadfully poor batsman at this level to play the number of Test's that he has.He got a free pass in the summer when the media focus was on getting Sibley out of the team…..
Poor technique and absolutely no idea where his stumps are.
The frustration is that Australia aren’t all that. They’ve got some excellent players, and a very good attack, but they’re vulnerable. But if you get skittled for nothing then there’s just no opportunity to expose those vulnerabilities.
Got to say the management and preparation of the Test side, and the first class game, has been piss poor for a few years now.
Listened to it on the radio, i kept falling asleep and waking up to different batsmen at the crease. I was thinking I would be waking up to a disastrous first inning ls score, but 147 is a pretty good score for this England team isn't it? It's more than they usually get.
When BT have cricket TV coverage (as with when TalkSport have radio) it makes it clear just how good TMS and Sky's commentators are
I think the one thing they can’t really be criticised for is being undercooked. That’s not their fault, but it does make it strange that we chose to bat first given how undercooked we were and the conditions we were presented with.My dad always says - never judge until both sides have batted, might look quite different this time tomorrow
FFS Joe you can not be batting on this morning at Gabba😡Thanks Joe.
FFS Joe you can not be batting on this morning at Gabba😡Thanks Joe.
This is looking very ominous now.
Aussies have enough in the bank already to potentially win by an innings.
Burns shouldn’t be anywhere near the slip cordon. His ratio of drops to catches must be up there with the worst of any England side.
This is looking very ominous now.
Burns shouldn’t be anywhere near the slip cordon. His ratio of drops to catches must be up there with the worst of any England side.
He's making me glad my name is spelt the other way.
Like this fella, but with the 's'
https://twitter.com/johnbyrne2 (https://twitter.com/johnbyrne2)
Insert an 'a' into your name, and then claim it's always been that way and it's just everyone else that gets it wrong.
Because I don't see the situation improving over the next 40 days or so.
We're eternally 'that bad', punctuated occasionally by an individual or two that raises us for a brief period.Looking at some of our horrendous batting on day one it seems as if the days of occupying the crease at the least are long gone in favour of the shorter versions of the game.
Stokes being injured is a massive blow.
Ive dropped out of following cricket in the main now but I used to be well into cricket when I was younger.
The late 70's, early 80's even saw me with a season ticket for Warwickshire.
Are Australia that good or are we just that bad?
So we've basically neglected the longer form of the game.Ive dropped out of following cricket in the main now but I used to be well into cricket when I was younger.
The late 70's, early 80's even saw me with a season ticket for Warwickshire.
Are Australia that good or are we just that bad?
One day side we’re very good. But we’ve totally lost the plot with Test cricket - some structural issues with a marginalisation of first class cricket and also just some poor management.
In the main we still bring through good seam bowlers - as evidenced today. Spin is weaker, although I don’t think Leach is as bad as the figures suggest today. Main problems are batting is really weak and heavily reliant on one or two quality players getting big runs. The fielding is bad, catching particularly - we are one of the lowest performing fielding sides in the Test game.
So we've basically neglected the longer form of the game.Ive dropped out of following cricket in the main now but I used to be well into cricket when I was younger.
The late 70's, early 80's even saw me with a season ticket for Warwickshire.
Are Australia that good or are we just that bad?
One day side we’re very good. But we’ve totally lost the plot with Test cricket - some structural issues with a marginalisation of first class cricket and also just some poor management.
In the main we still bring through good seam bowlers - as evidenced today. Spin is weaker, although I don’t think Leach is as bad as the figures suggest today. Main problems are batting is really weak and heavily reliant on one or two quality players getting big runs. The fielding is bad, catching particularly - we are one of the lowest performing fielding sides in the Test game.
There seems to be plenty of evidence around to back that up.
this Test reminds me of I think 2010 where we came back to draw the 1st Test...That would be nice but I think the match will end tonight with Aussies knocking off circa 100 runs they will need when England are done. However it’s a good sign that England are showing some resilience.
fingers crossed for the same result.
UTV
The Doc
Insert an 'a' into your name, and then claim it's always been that way and it's just everyone else that gets it wrong.
Because I don't see the situation improving over the next 40 days or so.
Good idea!
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Agree Paul and we probably need Root and Malan to go big tomorrow. Probably going to need to bat the best part of four sessions to get a result.
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Agree Paul and we probably need Root and Malan to go big tomorrow. Probably going to need to bat the best part of four sessions to get a result.
We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets just focus on little wins:
No wickets down in the first 20 minutes = win
Get the runs to make then bat again = win
Take the match to day 5 = win
Give the bowlers some runs to work with = win
We are still likely to lose the test so now the focus has to be on putting down some foundations for the rest of the series.
What I'd pesonally like to see is Root, Malan nd Pope put enough on the boards that Stokes and Buttler can come in and have a bit of a go at their bowlers, try to put a bit of fear into them about what our middle order can do.
Getting back in tomorrow morning will be tough. I suspect Australia will come out of the traps hard, so we’ll need to dig in. But to be honest after the first two days making them bat again would be a triumph.
Agree Paul and we probably need Root and Malan to go big tomorrow. Probably going to need to bat the best part of four sessions to get a result.
We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, lets just focus on little wins:
No wickets down in the first 20 minutes = win
Get the runs to make then bat again = win
Take the match to day 5 = win
Give the bowlers some runs to work with = win
We are still likely to lose the test so now the focus has to be on putting down some foundations for the rest of the series.
What I'd pesonally like to see is Root, Malan nd Pope put enough on the boards that Stokes and Buttler can come in and have a bit of a go at their bowlers, try to put a bit of fear into them about what our middle order can do.
Nah, I'm getting fully carried away Paul. Root and Malan to give us a 200+ lead, then Stokes and Butter to come in and smash it to all parts!
Reality is though, we are still very much up against it, but the partnership between Root and Malan has at least given us a glimmer of hope of getting something out of the game.
How in the name of god has Lyon got 400 test wickets? Don't get me wrong, he's a good bowler, but 400 wickets?!
How in the name of god has Lyon got 400 test wickets? Don't get me wrong, he's a good bowler, but 400 wickets?!
He’s better than ‘good’, but he’s also played 101 tests
How in the name of god has Lyon got 400 test wickets? Don't get me wrong, he's a good bowler, but 400 wickets?!
He’s better than ‘good’, but he’s also played 101 tests
Oh well. Don't suppose there is any chance of that bad weather forecast for tomorrow arriving pretty sharpish and lasting for a couple of days?There is hope if it can go to Sunday but a long shot.
Out played Root and Malan good innings ,Root is not the man to captain England, “but who else is there ?” is the cry. Why not try the Irish guy from the T20.
Helps a bit but Richardson has been taking wickets for fun. Our batting unit has to find a way of getting big runs.That's the problem, we're currently such a mess on and off the field that i will clutch at any straw however small. I think Richardson is quality.
Odd selection, weird tactics, another first day and another Test effectively conceded by stumps. Surely both Silverwood and Root won't survive this if it goes as it likely will.
It feels like they have a bit of a paradoxical mix overthinking things, but with a lack of foresight.
They’ve clearly got wrapped up in thinking about what the ball might do under lights and that’s dictated their selection. They then forgotten/missed the fact that you need to take wickets at other points of the day. Their tactics were so negative they just allowed Australia to tire us out.
It’s been a bad day, again, in terms of performance. Dropping Labuschagne twice is unforgivable.
I fear and suspect this one paced attack will be battered into the dirt and we’ll come out and be bombed out for less than 200.
It feels like they have a bit of a paradoxical mix overthinking things, but with a lack of foresight.
They’ve clearly got wrapped up in thinking about what the ball might do under lights and that’s dictated their selection. They then forgotten/missed the fact that you need to take wickets at other points of the day. Their tactics were so negative they just allowed Australia to tire us out.
It’s been a bad day, again, in terms of performance. Dropping Labuschagne twice is unforgivable.
I fear and suspect this one paced attack will be battered into the dirt and we’ll come out and be bombed out for less than 200.
Should maybe look at England having to qualify for future Ashes tours down under.
Or perhaps rotate it every 12 years, give Scotland and Ireland the chance to enjoy 37 degree heat and all the fun usually associated with these drubbings.
At best we’ll be 50-3.
We have a real problem, one of many I grant you, with always letting the opposition tail batter us around.
That's quite the opening pair we've got there.
Woakes has not bowled particularly well these first two games. Let’s be honest it’s his batting keeping him in the side.
Players off
How young do you think I am ?
How young do you think I am ?
After thinking Monty was in his 60s I've decided to err on the side of caution going forward.
So by the time I wake up tomorrow just over session will have been played. I’m going to be generous and suspect we’ll be 8 down rather than all out by that point.
Thing is you just have to be better than that. You can’t only be useful if opening the bowling, you have to at least be able to bowl tight in the middle overs.
It’s all a shambles though, yet again. This series will lead to a blood letting. Root is a brilliant player, our only consistent quality batter. He’s not a great captain, but I don’t see a viable alternative. Stokes is probably it, but I’m not sure you’d want to add more to his workload. There’s literally no one else who is a definite starter.
Silverwood has had a horrible reign - not all his fault, but my god our poor planning and decision making has to come back to him. Also the decision to combine the coach and selector role to “create more accountability” is utterly brainless. There’s a fundamental conflict in the two roles and they need to be separate.
It's because they're savages with no sense of fair play or sporting honour.
But seriously, I think we'd be the same, but unfortunately the Aussies travel a bit better than us so the odd test aside, we rarely give them a shellacking over here in the way they do to us over there.
It's because they're savages with no sense of fair play or sporting honour.
But seriously, I think we'd be the same, but unfortunately the Aussies travel a bit better than us so the odd test aside, we rarely give them a shellacking over here in the way they do to us over there.
No, it's the first bit that's right. I've met one.
Buttler has been picked on potential for what he might deliver in Test cricket for so long and has very rarely delivered. It’s time to move onto Foakes who is far and away the best keeper - who knew taking catches might be important - and he can bat too.
But there needs to be a complete structural overhaul because our Test cricket has been embarrassing for too long.
Woakes has been really poor with the ball.
Oh and this is probably low on the list of grumbles, but our tail is fucking hopeless. I don’t expect them to be talented, but I do expect them to try and stick in. They don’t and it’s awful.
The much maligned Jack Leach at least digs in and tries.
As I say low on the list of issues, but it’s indicative of the lack of fight in our team.
Woakes has been really poor with the ball.
Been made the fall guy yet again.
To an extent, but he’s been poor as well. Doesn’t change the fact that it makes no difference if the batsmen can’t get more than 200/250.
Also they’ve abandoned the sound concept they had that Broad and Anderson shouldn’t both play in the side now - unless it’s incredibly favourable bowling conditions. Had they not forgotten that Broad could have played the first, Anderson the second, and they could have balanced the side better in terms of variety. Ultimately probably wouldn’t change anything, but it might have posed Australia a few more questions.
As I said before this series will results in a root and branch review, which needs to happen. It’s been a disastrous couple of years in red ball cricket.
I’m amazed how the Aussies really love these totally one sided match’s
I agree on the vision for Test cricket. Silverwood’s, “we need big runs in the first innings” at a principle level is fine, but without a clear strategy it’s meaningless. Again not all his fault, but we’ve not looked like a team with a clear vision for a good while. I also get the impression we’re less than the sum of our parts. Pope is a great example - he has all the talent in the world, but who is working with him on game psychology? He looks incredibly frenetic and on edge. They either aren’t working with him, or they’re doing the wrong stuff, but either way he just doesn’t look supported.
Never mind, the Hundred was jolly fun wasn't it?
I'd drop Pope and put Woakes in his place to bat ! Pope's confidence is shot.
I'd drop Pope and put Woakes in his place to bat ! Pope's confidence is shot.
Appreciate this might be tongue in cheek, but with the best will in the world Woakes is not a Test number 6. Pope can be, but agree he looks in a bad place. Problem is they’ve got themselves into a corner. Their options are Bairstow - who hasn’t got any runs in Test cricket for about 3 years or Lawrence who was in a bad way when he was dropped. We’ve got no options that have actually made a case in the squad, instead we’ve got a load of players who are struggling/we’ve clung on to for too long.
I'd drop Pope and put Woakes in his place to bat ! Pope's confidence is shot.
Appreciate this might be tongue in cheek, but with the best will in the world Woakes is not a Test number 6. Pope can be, but agree he looks in a bad place. Problem is they’ve got themselves into a corner. Their options are Bairstow - who hasn’t got any runs in Test cricket for about 3 years or Lawrence who was in a bad way when he was dropped. We’ve got no options that have actually made a case in the squad, instead we’ve got a load of players who are struggling/we’ve clung on to for too long.
If he’s fit we drop Stokes down to seven, play Bairstow as keeper at 6, pick our three fittest seamers (Robinson, Broad and Woakes?) and a spinner?
Pope, Crawley or Lawrence at 5.
Look to the A team? Mahmood who’s playing big bash but is a test bowler? Vince? Again playing Big Bash and can play test cricket.
Shame we don’t have a spinner who can score test 100’s, although the way we treated Mo it’s not really a surprise.
Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Have felt down about this series so far, but listening to the post match discussions actually feel a bit more accepting of the situation now.
We aren't a top side at the moment and I think we have to accept that now. The last year hasn't been great at all, but we have played the three best sides in the world at the moment, with three very strong bowling attacks. Looking at the positives, we have two top class middle order batsmen, some options at wicket keeper and still have some decent enough seam options. Malan has scored some runs at three and looks like he could be an option there for the immediate future.
Where I think we really need some planning and thought are the situations with the openers and spinners. Both are areas of real weakness and are being constantly exposed against better sides. We really need to invest some time in thinking about a proper approach for those roles and what we actually want them to do and select suitable options accordingly.
Just feel we are at a bit of a crossroads at the moment and have felt for a while now that the current international schedule just isn't sustainable. For example, after this series and the white ball games after, that really should be it and the players should be heading home for a break before the county season starts. 6 weeks of that and then into a two test series at the end of May start of June. Instead, they fly out almost immediately after Australia to the West Indies and then back home and almost straight into the packed summer schedule over here.
Over the past couple of decades, the ECB have positioned themselves as the ones who fund the game in this country and international cricket is their cash cow (along with the Hundred now). One of the main problems with governing bodies financing sport (get it with rugby as well) is that the internationals fund the whole structure, but there is only so many of them you can play. That then leaves the situation where they look to play more and more games at the detriment of the structure as a whole.
Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Found it - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp).
Yep really questionable, because you have a squad but essentially the back up batsmen are unselectable and they have literally no cricket to make a case for selection.
Have felt down about this series so far, but listening to the post match discussions actually feel a bit more accepting of the situation now.
We aren't a top side at the moment and I think we have to accept that now. The last year hasn't been great at all, but we have played the three best sides in the world at the moment, with three very strong bowling attacks. Looking at the positives, we have two top class middle order batsmen, some options at wicket keeper and still have some decent enough seam options. Malan has scored some runs at three and looks like he could be an option there for the immediate future.
Where I think we really need some planning and thought are the situations with the openers and spinners. Both are areas of real weakness and are being constantly exposed against better sides. We really need to invest some time in thinking about a proper approach for those roles and what we actually want them to do and select suitable options accordingly.
Just feel we are at a bit of a crossroads at the moment and have felt for a while now that the current international schedule just isn't sustainable. For example, after this series and the white ball games after, that really should be it and the players should be heading home for a break before the county season starts. 6 weeks of that and then into a two test series at the end of May start of June. Instead, they fly out almost immediately after Australia to the West Indies and then back home and almost straight into the packed summer schedule over here.
Over the past couple of decades, the ECB have positioned themselves as the ones who fund the game in this country and international cricket is their cash cow (along with the Hundred now). One of the main problems with governing bodies financing sport (get it with rugby as well) is that the internationals fund the whole structure, but there is only so many of them you can play. That then leaves the situation where they look to play more and more games at the detriment of the structure as a whole.
Totally off on a tangent but I actually think rugby has quite easily the best international structure of any of the major internationl sports. They have 3 small windows of games which allow for plenty of down time in the summer, if any player goes over a set number of games for the year the RFU pay the club to give them a break. To avoid 'empty' weekends they coincide cup games with these windows as much as poassible but they also have the play offs to negate the 'fine margins' risk of international fixtures playing a major part in the season.To try to add some semblance of balance to the league they have a wage cap but then give clubs a refund on it for international players which stops it becoming a club vs country issue.
I agree with you on the scheduling of cricket being poor though, I also think we don't do anything like enough to get our batsmen (in particular) playing in other conditions, far too often you see English players in australian and indian conditions looking surprised whent he ball doesn't move the same way as it does on English wickets.Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Found it - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp).
Yep really questionable, because you have a squad but essentially the back up batsmen are unselectable and they have literally no cricket to make a case for selection.
That's pathetic, the worst case scenario is that they should've extended the main squad by 3-4 people and given themselves options, backed themselves into a corner over this.
Have felt down about this series so far, but listening to the post match discussions actually feel a bit more accepting of the situation now.
We aren't a top side at the moment and I think we have to accept that now. The last year hasn't been great at all, but we have played the three best sides in the world at the moment, with three very strong bowling attacks. Looking at the positives, we have two top class middle order batsmen, some options at wicket keeper and still have some decent enough seam options. Malan has scored some runs at three and looks like he could be an option there for the immediate future.
Where I think we really need some planning and thought are the situations with the openers and spinners. Both are areas of real weakness and are being constantly exposed against better sides. We really need to invest some time in thinking about a proper approach for those roles and what we actually want them to do and select suitable options accordingly.
Just feel we are at a bit of a crossroads at the moment and have felt for a while now that the current international schedule just isn't sustainable. For example, after this series and the white ball games after, that really should be it and the players should be heading home for a break before the county season starts. 6 weeks of that and then into a two test series at the end of May start of June. Instead, they fly out almost immediately after Australia to the West Indies and then back home and almost straight into the packed summer schedule over here.
Over the past couple of decades, the ECB have positioned themselves as the ones who fund the game in this country and international cricket is their cash cow (along with the Hundred now). One of the main problems with governing bodies financing sport (get it with rugby as well) is that the internationals fund the whole structure, but there is only so many of them you can play. That then leaves the situation where they look to play more and more games at the detriment of the structure as a whole.
Totally off on a tangent but I actually think rugby has quite easily the best international structure of any of the major internationl sports. They have 3 small windows of games which allow for plenty of down time in the summer, if any player goes over a set number of games for the year the RFU pay the club to give them a break. To avoid 'empty' weekends they coincide cup games with these windows as much as poassible but they also have the play offs to negate the 'fine margins' risk of international fixtures playing a major part in the season.To try to add some semblance of balance to the league they have a wage cap but then give clubs a refund on it for international players which stops it becoming a club vs country issue.
I agree with you on the scheduling of cricket being poor though, I also think we don't do anything like enough to get our batsmen (in particular) playing in other conditions, far too often you see English players in australian and indian conditions looking surprised whent he ball doesn't move the same way as it does on English wickets.Also to Paul E’s point above there’s another weird choice. I might be wrong here but haven’t they sent the Lions home? Therefore not having anyone to call on.
I'd missed that but if so that makes the squad selection even more questionable.
Found it - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-lions-in-australia-2021-22-england-opt-against-keeping-squad-members-on-1293341%3fplatform=amp).
Yep really questionable, because you have a squad but essentially the back up batsmen are unselectable and they have literally no cricket to make a case for selection.
That's pathetic, the worst case scenario is that they should've extended the main squad by 3-4 people and given themselves options, backed themselves into a corner over this.
The English rugby model does work well Paul, but there are some pretty serious financial problems for the countries where the Unions run the game and the domestic teams (ie. Ireland, New Zealand etc.). International games are the big money earners and support the whole structure in those countries.
One bowler I find it very odd they left out is Saqib Mahmood. I think he’d be good in Aus.
I just think Stokes is one of the best batsmen and that’s his priority role for me. He will always be the fifth bowler in the attack for me - not to say he’s not important, but I wouldn’t have him as one of four bowlers.
I just think Stokes is one of the best batsmen and that’s his priority role for me. He will always be the fifth bowler in the attack for me - not to say he’s not important, but I wouldn’t have him as one of four bowlers.
I would bat him at six rather than five though. Think it would free him up a bit more.
I have to say the comments Root made about the bowling made me raise my eyebrows on several levels, and it seems Ricky Ponting's too.
To be honest the whole Silverwood appointment was weird. He was the bowling coach, he got promoted to Head Coach, and then was made sole selector as well. An absolutely ludicrous overloading of responsibility, on probably the wrong person.
Also one pet peeve for me. A number of players call him “spoons”, which is obviously a nickname from when he was in the ranks. It just shows to me he’s too close to the players. If you’re in the head coach role you need to have some distance.
Bumble has retired from commentating
Another op for Jof. Worrying, I hope he makes a full recovery.I am afraid that he may never operate at elite level again. That would be a sad loss of talent....best of luck but I feel for him.
Bumble has retired from commentating
Bumble has retired from commentating
I think Sky probably asked him to step down due to his involvement in the Azeem Rafiq affair, where it appears he made a stupid, rather than racist, comment on twitter. Rafiq did not want this, for him the matter was closed as soon as Lloyd phoned him to apologise for any offence caused. Not sure he is retiring from the commentary box rumour has it might be moving to Talksport or BT.
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Back to on the field issues, we're in sh!t or bust territory as far as the series goes now. Big decisions for me are:
Does Crawley come in for either Burns or Hameed?
Do Bairstow or Lawrence come in for Pope?
Does Buttler keep his place in the side?
Bowling attack for me should be Robinson, Wood, Leach and Anderson. We've got to win really so will have to go with a longer tail and hope the top seven can finally produce.
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Whatever they're doing if it takes Vaughan away then I'm all for it. No one stepping down/being kicked/jumping before they're pushed matters much to me because this year we've lost the best with Holding stepping down and no one was going to be a decent replacement for him.
I think Pope is only one of that top 7 who will be dropped, coin flip whether it’s Crawley, Bairstow or Lawrence who will be recalled from a previous string of failures. Not sure any of those will open so Burns & Hameed will get another chance.
Imagine if Moeen hadn’t retired, he’d have batted 8 in first test, 6 in the second and proposed to open in the 3rd
Good news a batsman who averages 11 this year and one who has been really poor for 3 years in Tests. That said at least Bairstow is a good fielder.
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Whatever they're doing if it takes Vaughan away then I'm all for it. No one stepping down/being kicked/jumping before they're pushed matters much to me because this year we've lost the best with Holding stepping down and no one was going to be a decent replacement for him.
agreed, I love listening to Michael talk about all things.
a top fella
UTV
The Doc
I was never blown away by Gower as a presenter/ linkman.But he managed to edge it quite often.
I think commentary teams are moving away from the banter-fuelled old boys set up in general.
Whatever they're doing if it takes Vaughan away then I'm all for it. No one stepping down/being kicked/jumping before they're pushed matters much to me because this year we've lost the best with Holding stepping down and no one was going to be a decent replacement for him.
agreed, I love listening to Michael talk about all things.
a top fella
UTV
The Doc
They've now lost Bumble, Holding, Botham, Gower and Willis for various reasons over the last few years.
I was never blown away by Gower as a presenter/ linkman.
But the replacements for all that lot are anodyne and dull AF.
It's good in a way. Purging. No excuses. Many heads rolling overdue down the steps of the guillotine. In the long run, it can be helpful to have these tumbril moments.
It's good in a way. Purging. No excuses. Many heads rolling overdue down the steps of the guillotine. In the long run, it can be helpful to have these tumbril moments.For those who have destroyed the temple of Test match cricket a reckoning awaits but who will lead in face of embarrassing riches of fluff and straw, the short formats, to do something about it?
There's only so many times you can use T20 and the like as an excuse for England's ineptitude.
I predict Australia will get around 400.
Decent opening partnership by Englands recent standards. Made it to 7.Soon goes to 7-2
Oh well if Root, Stokes, Bairstow and Buttler can get 250 between them we might have a chance!Think much more likely the game doesn’t last until lunch
And within a couple of overs of the afternoon the pressure has well and truly been released. Awful. And Leach on straight after lunch? To defend?
Steven Finn, Former England bowler on BBC Test Match Special: "I'm almost in shock. I don't think anyone saw that coming."
I know he has friends in the dressing room, but is he fucking joking?! We ALL saw that coming.
To lose by an innings within three days when the opposition scores less than 300 is arguably one of the most inept sporting "performances" from an England team I can recall.
Step One: abolish The Hundred.
I think there’s two angles to this. There’s the long-term stuff, which will ultimately make a sustained difference -
- redress the balance so that first class cricket is not marginalised. Things like ensuring it is played in the heart of the summer, incentivising counties to play on good pitches etc-
- better management of promising players - like helping them get first class cricket abroad in the winter.
- this also requires better people in the Exec positions who don’t just look at the short-term. I’m not saying chuck white ball cricket out, it’s an important component. It’s just ensuring there’s a balanced focus. England, with the resources available, should be able to be able to compete in both formats.
Then there’s the short-term stuff that’ll likely bring improvements in the interim -
- Split the roles of coach and selector(s) back out again. It was a stupid decision to merge them in the first place, there needs to be a separation because there’s an inevitable conflict. Also the coach simply doesn’t have enough time to watch enough cricket to be a lead selector.
- Replace Silverwood with a coach with more experience and a proven track record. We also need someone from the outside, because it’s felt too cosy under Silverwood.
- Let Root go back to being a batsman. This does create a problem with the captaincy because Stokes is the only other guaranteed starter, and I’d rather they didn’t put the captaincy on his plate too. They might need to do a bit of a refresh and bring someone like Tom Abell in as captain, but obviously that creates risk.
- Get rid of the likes of Bairstow.
- Plan tours better. I accept that Covid has been a big problem and generally there’s a lot of cricket. But we need first class cricket when we arrive on tour and in the Ashes especially there needs to be space between the Tests to get in another couple of first class games. They’ve been hampered by poor squad selection, selecting players who had recently struggled when they knew they couldn’t get any cricket, but it’s just daft having no breaks between games.
Those are just a few things, but bloody hell this team needs real work.
The backlash has been pretty significant in the press, but this is not a new problem, it's just that it has happened in our most high profile series.
This kind of performance has been happening for a number of years now and I've often thought during that time that unless they are firmly on top in the first couple of days, they just wrap it up and move on to the next test or next series. The attitude just seems to be "oh well, not to be this time, let's move on to the next game" and they haven't really been held to account up to this point.
The backlash has been pretty significant in the press, but this is not a new problem, it's just that it has happened in our most high profile series.
This kind of performance has been happening for a number of years now and I've often thought during that time that unless they are firmly on top in the first couple of days, they just wrap it up and move on to the next test or next series. The attitude just seems to be "oh well, not to be this time, let's move on to the next game" and they haven't really been held to account up to this point.
Exactly right. There's no accountability, and you just get Root coming out with Lambertesque soundbites about being better for the next match.
Steven Finn, Former England bowler on BBC Test Match Special: "I'm almost in shock. I don't think anyone saw that coming."Unbelievable claptrap. Finn is from them. He is known as England Test bowler but probably wouldn't feature in the list if top 100 international bowlers. Far too much dross around in this generation of test match players all brought about by absolute shameful money gathering greed from ECB.
I know he has friends in the dressing room, but is he fucking joking?! We ALL saw that coming.
On the contrary - he’s in the same category as Larwood for me - not many get the laws changed because of their bowling.Steven Finn, Former England bowler on BBC Test Match Special: "I'm almost in shock. I don't think anyone saw that coming."Unbelievable claptrap. Finn is from them. He is known as England Test bowler but probably wouldn't feature in the list if top 100 international bowlers. Far too much dross around in this generation of test match players all brought about by absolute shameful money gathering greed from ECB.
I know he has friends in the dressing room, but is he fucking joking?! We ALL saw that coming.
I'd probably have more sympathy for England's cricketing latest humiliation if BBC Sport hadn't done a piece last week the gist of which 'if you think England are bad in Oz spare a thought for Ireland who've just lost to the USA'.
I'd probably have more sympathy for England's cricketing latest humiliation if BBC Sport hadn't done a piece last week the gist of which 'if you think England are bad in Oz spare a thought for Ireland who've just lost to the USA'.
I don't disagree, but as with the T20 World Cup, I'm not sure when Ireland became good enough that their losing to any associate nation is a surprise.
They'd probably put up at least as much of a fight against the Aussies as England have done this series, but Ireland are still essentially shit at cricket.
I'd probably have more sympathy for England's cricketing latest humiliation if BBC Sport hadn't done a piece last week the gist of which 'if you think England are bad in Oz spare a thought for Ireland who've just lost to the USA'.
I don't disagree, but as with the T20 World Cup, I'm not sure when Ireland became good enough that their losing to any associate nation is a surprise.
They'd probably put up at least as much of a fight against the Aussies as England have done this series, but Ireland are still essentially shit at cricket.
True, it's still very much a minority sport here but then England aren't great at hurling. :)
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
Back to cricket and it seems that the vultures are circling over Silverwood already.
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
That most definitely would've been fouling the man.
It's a physical game but the rules do not allow striking an opponent with the hurley. All proper coaching emphasises restrained use of the hurley and seriously frowns upon any play that may result in either you accidentally hitting an opponent, or putting yourself in a position where you could accidentally be hit.
So while it can/does happen, being struck in the neck would be no more a part of hurling than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear was a part of boxing.
Sorry for sounding all serious, I just think hurling's reputation as being brutal is unfair, and it's certainly nowhere near as dangerous as rugby, say.
Back to cricket and it seems that the vultures are circling over Silverwood already.
Rightly so, this is as bad as we've seen in an ashes tour.
Back to cricket and it seems that the vultures are circling over Silverwood already.
Rightly so, this is as bad as we've seen in an ashes tour.
And that’s not in isolation either. We’ve been on a decline in general for a while - not all Silverwood’s fault clearly, but nothing he’s done has made a positive improvement. It’s been a diabolical year for English Test cricket. The fact you have player scoring the third most runs ever in a calendar year and we still lost 9 Tests shows how bad it’s been.
Silverwood needs to go, but they also need to split the coach and selectors roles again - amalgamating them was another terrible decision.
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
That most definitely would've been fouling the man.
It's a physical game but the rules do not allow striking an opponent with the hurley. All proper coaching emphasises restrained use of the hurley and seriously frowns upon any play that may result in either you accidentally hitting an opponent, or putting yourself in a position where you could accidentally be hit.
So while it can/does happen, being struck in the neck would be no more a part of hurling than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear was a part of boxing.
Sorry for sounding all serious, I just think hurling's reputation as being brutal is unfair, and it's certainly nowhere near as dangerous as rugby, say.
According to my aforementioned family member, the most violent part was always the post match fight between the teams. He reckoned it didn't matter who the teams were, there was always a massive scrap. And apparently Steve Staunton was absolutely hard as nails.
I discovered recently that a great-great-grandfather died in a hurling incident (I don't say 'accident' as it seems to me that getting whacked in the neck seems to some extent to be the purpose of the sport).
That most definitely would've been fouling the man.
It's a physical game but the rules do not allow striking an opponent with the hurley. All proper coaching emphasises restrained use of the hurley and seriously frowns upon any play that may result in either you accidentally hitting an opponent, or putting yourself in a position where you could accidentally be hit.
So while it can/does happen, being struck in the neck would be no more a part of hurling than Tyson biting Holyfield's ear was a part of boxing.
Sorry for sounding all serious, I just think hurling's reputation as being brutal is unfair, and it's certainly nowhere near as dangerous as rugby, say.
According to my aforementioned family member, the most violent part was always the post match fight between the teams. He reckoned it didn't matter who the teams were, there was always a massive scrap. And apparently Steve Staunton was absolutely hard as nails.
Gary Kirsten instead of Silverwood is a no brainer. Splitting the one day from the test side isn't the worst thing either.IMO it's a rubbish idea. If you look at 3 leading Test nations New zealand, India and Australia there is not a lot of difference between their Test teams and short games. Develop the national cricket purely for Test matches and then also play best players in the short game. That's a no brainer as far as I am concerned.
As a Worcs fan I am obviously resistant to any further franchise cricket because it is clear what the plan is. ECB don’t want the likes of Worcs / Northants / Leicester sharing their income
I think 3 divisions might be a good option in county championship so that the best players / teams are against each other more often.
Three formats is the way forward & supports international formats - 4 day / 50 over / t20 (play more regularly, no reason that they can’t play 3/4 t20’s a week & condense comp)….stick that Hundred bull into the bin
"The Hour" sounds intriguing. Great idea Rory, any additional chances to win honours should be embraced.
I still don't see anything The Hundred has over the Blast that couldn't be remedied with marketing. Is anybody who isn't already interested in cricket going to show up for The Hundred? And if they do, is a different number of balls per over going to make it uniquely attractive or help them get into the other formats?
For cricket fans, it's messing with the format in an unnecessary way, with less cricket to watch.
For non-cricket fans, whether it's 100 or 120 balls, it's a chance to get drunk in the open air on a summer evening with blokes smashing a ball about the place.
I can only think it's the product of a committee of PR morons who think cricket is too complicated because they can't process more than one number at a time, so have taken a punt on decimalising it.
No different to introducing a new trophy in football called 'the hour' whereby each half is 30 minutes, the goals are widened and for ten minutes of each half there is a limit on the number of defenders you can play.
As someone who cares as much for cricket as he does for caterpillar racing, it strikes me as no surprise that England are shite in tests when they spend a big chunk of the season playing all these different competitions. It's like having a five a side tournament in the middle of the football season then wondering why we don't win the World Cup.
This test feels like when Villa score in the 5th minute of injury time and we're 0-3 behind.
At least Caterpillar races tend to last longer than an England Test innings.
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Giles needs to sack himself. Did well with the Bears but way out of his depth in the test arena, sadly. Nice guy and great player, despite me supporting the Pears but he and Silverwood need to step down.
On the game I think we've let them score 100 more than we should've from the bits I saw of the morning sessions, losing the bowling of Stokes is a massive blow.
As a tiny bit of credit the 5 over spell was a tricky one given the form of our openers so credit to them for seeing it off (I know that's a really low bar). it's now on them to keep that going and get through the first 20-25 overs unscathed to at least get a bit of their dignity back. If they can manage that the target is small enough that we should be able to avoid the follow-on and from there the weather reports for day 4 mean that a draw would become the most likely outcome. Right now I'd take that to avoid the whitewash.
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Giles’s interview with Simon Mann was really poor, came across defensive and didn’t appear to have any clear ideas except trying to suggest the individuals involved in the decision making aren’t accountable for the failures.
Giles needs to sack himself. Did well with the Bears but way out of his depth in the test arena, sadly. Nice guy and great player, despite me supporting the Pears but he and Silverwood need to step down.
He's got that annoying habit of saying 'OK' after he's made a statement, as if he's forcing the listener to agree with what he's saying. OK?
Predictions on our first innings effort? I’m going to go with c.170
Yeah I mean the score illustrates our problem in a way. Even if two or three players do well the rest get virtually nothing and you just don’t get to a competitive total. For England to get decent totals one player has to score a huge score, which just isn’t sustainable.
Yeah I mean the score illustrates our problem in a way. Even if two or three players do well the rest get virtually nothing and you just don’t get to a competitive total. For England to get decent totals one player has to score a huge score, which just isn’t sustainable.
That's it in a nutshell. Even with a century and a half century, we're still struggling to get to 300.
I know there is much to criticise but isn’t that down to injuries?Yes but what about professional risk assessment during team selection to ensure you protect your assets. When Bairstow is selected he should keep wicket and leave Buttler out and therefore making sure another specialist is not being risked in the field particularly as Buttler does not offer any significant batting advantage.
Sounds like Billings is going to play next week.
Do we fancy England to make it through the day?Haha. Without rain I wouldn’t give us a prayer. Unfortunately. From the man who’s going to the T20’s in Barbados next week.
Do we fancy England to make it through the day?Haha. Without rain I wouldn’t give us a prayer. Unfortunately. From the man who’s going to the T20’s in Barbados next week.
Do we fancy England to make it through the day?Yes and possibly win it. (ok I should not drink too much water)
Admire the optimism Paul but this is another pitiful display. Just not quite as utterly horrifying as others. If we don't lose this match I will eat everyone's hats.
Admire the optimism Paul but this is another pitiful display. Just not quite as utterly horrifying as others. If we don't lose this match I will eat everyone's hats.
I'll draw up a rota so that I don't have too many hats at once.
Good not to lose but a long way from winning. Hopefully put up even more of a fight in the next one.
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
Agree Paul, but it does show the kind of situation we are in where we are drawing some comfort out of a last wicket stand scraping a draw for us.
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
Agree Paul, but it does show the kind of situation we are in where we are drawing some comfort out of a last wicket stand scraping a draw for us.
You say that, but draw the next test and we'll have the most successful of our tours down under in eleven years. Open-top bus parade territory!
At least they’ve stopped the rot. That pitch wasn’t easy and they showed some fight. Crawley has to take that forward now.
Agree Paul, but it does show the kind of situation we are in where we are drawing some comfort out of a last wicket stand scraping a draw for us.
You say that, but draw the next test and we'll have the most successful of our tours down under in eleven years. Open-top bus parade territory!
Ha! I of course hope we can get a win at Hobart, but genuinely hope this result and whatever happens next do not detract from the major issues we have with the red ball game.
Virat Kohli acting like a total ******.
I’d also add it’s fucking mental playing Stokes when he’s clearly injured.
It’s quite a statement for the bowling coach to come out and say Robinson needs to improve his fitness. I agree though, he’s a cracking bowler when he’s at full tilt, but he really struggles to sustain it and drops off a lot.
It’s quite a statement for the bowling coach to come out and say Robinson needs to improve his fitness. I agree though, he’s a cracking bowler when he’s at full tilt, but he really struggles to sustain it and drops off a lot.
Jon Lewis was effectively saying that Robinson hasn’t handled the step up fitness wise from county cricket to test cricket. Well you want the player to take responsibility for their own fitness but surely the coaching staff share some of the blame? This tour has been a shambles.
Inexcusable that Burns got run out so early. He has been a disaster this series. The top order are hopeless.
The batting is shite, that’s well known, but I’m sticking a good deal of responsibility on the bowling this time. Australia got 120/130 more than they should have here and it’s largely down to the dross Wood and Woakes sent down in the second session yesterday.
Stokes you idiot.
What's happened to Malan? Very good start to the series and now playing like a quiz winner.Not an excuse for overall form but maybe a factor in this knock - his wife gave birth last night 6 weeks early back here in England.
Wow thats hard. May be the team management should have sent him home?What's happened to Malan? Very good start to the series and now playing like a quiz winner.Not an excuse for overall form but maybe a factor in this knock - his wife gave birth last night 6 weeks early back here in England.
I don’t think they could do anything as it was premature by quite a few weeks.Wow thats hard. May be the team management should have sent him home?What's happened to Malan? Very good start to the series and now playing like a quiz winner.Not an excuse for overall form but maybe a factor in this knock - his wife gave birth last night 6 weeks early back here in England.
I wonder if we'll see hide or hair of Boland again after this series. When England are having one of these tours, I reckon the Aussies could pick a random supporter before each match and they'll somehow get a 5-for. I feel our batsmen don't treat their bowlers as bowlers, but Aussie Bowlers. An Aussie Bowler is some kind of super-bowler, even if in reality they are not.
Total and utter capitulation. Can’t field, can’t bat, can’t bowl.
Silverwood has to go and I think Root will survive as captain due to a lack of credible options.
Getting rid of Coach/Captain etc is like rearranging the deck chairs. There is not much they can do when they have no international class cricketers to select. So how about playing some serious red ball cricket and making Test team the top priority?
Getting rid of Coach/Captain etc is like rearranging the deck chairs. There is not much they can do when they have no international class cricketers to select. So how about playing some serious red ball cricket and making Test team the top priority?It is like rearranging the deckchairs however all is too cosy in the England camp, it’s a mates culture when you hear players calling the coach by nickname. They need a coach who wants to coach not be their drinking buddy for nights out. Kirsten seems a logical choice, get him in and put a bomb under the test side, toughen up these players
I’m claiming that one Rory….back at start of December :-)
Just can’t see England getting anything over there, if Root doesn’t get a century (which he hasn’t done over there yet) I don’t see England getting 300+ in any innings
Unfortunately not :-) though I suspect the odds wouldn’t have been great anywayJust can’t see England getting anything over there, if Root doesn’t get a century (which he hasn’t done over there yet) I don’t see England getting 300+ in any innings
For the avoidance of doubt.
I hope you put a bet on, Gareth?
Agnew is proposing a radical restructuring of the domestic red ball game as a solution. That's not going to change anything if our top players don't ever play in it, whatever shape it takes. Wasn't that little cameo from Woakes at the arse end of last season his first Championship games for the Bears since he was about 9?
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
Terrible idea. It would be like doing away with Premier League teams and having "West Midlands Wizards" and "North East Knights" etc.
So, Agnew's big idea is to get rid of the County Championship in favour of the hundred? RIP Test Cricket if that's the case as it won't be long before they all get bored of it and make money from the wham bam type of cricket. Sod the purists. Bloody stupid idea. There has to be room for the longer version of the game. 6 teams in a division is ok but relegation and promotion needs to be included to make it properly competitive, therefore, reducing the regional idea. Not sure how they make up the divisions to start with but start it they need to.
Don't think he was advocating that Steve. He was suggesting bringing in a red ball version of the tournament, with the idea being to condense the talent into fewer teams. He did say he would keep the County Championship as well to provide a breeding ground for players coming through.
That is basically the Nottinghamshire model-they used the other non test ground counties to build their team.
I can see the benefits of a competition where the best players come together ie Warwickshire / Worcestershire / Northants best XI vs Somerset / Gloucestershire / Glamorgan best XI BUT the first requirement is to get back to red ball County Champioship cricket as THE priority in the actual summer months. Maybe the representative games could go to Dubai after the season has finished or before it begins in UK.
Collingwood hasn’t really read the room.
The ECB are as bad as FIFA/UEFA it's all about the quantity and so the quality will invariably suffer.
Had to as well. I have faith that Strauss knows what he’s doing.
Justin Langer has just resigned as Australian coach. They reckon he was too intense and upset some if the players, in particular Pat Cummins.
Sounds absolutely perfect for England. Aussie who’ll shake things up with a massive point to prove.
Some bad news here about Chris Cairns.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60270695
No Jimmy or Broad for the Windies tour.Correct call. Two amazing cricketers who have given all for England but it's time to move on now.
No Jimmy or Broad for the Windies tour.Correct call. Two amazing cricketers who have given all for England but it's time to move on now.
No Jimmy or Broad for the Windies tour.Correct call. Two amazing cricketers who have given all for England but it's time to move on now.
I must admit that I’m thinking the same. The romantic in me wants Jimmy to bow out on his own terms just like Cook did, however non-selection does tend to force the issue.
I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.
Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.
I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.
Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.
Not sure Rory. I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room. Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.
It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records.
I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit. Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes.
(Sorry for the length of that post)
(Sorry for the length of that post)
It was a good read Rory! I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.
I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records. There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages. Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.
They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on. If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.
Rory can you elaborate on this? :)I imagine we're slowly phasing Jimmy and Broad out, and step one will be keeping them for home tests only.
Jimmy might be 39 but his performances don't reflect that. He's still bowling around 85mph, so if he is fit, still motivated, and doesn't take losing his 'automatic selection' status badly, I think he could be an asset in England for another 3-5 years, potentially.
Not sure Rory. I've long had a suspicion that as good as Broad and Anderson are, they are a problem in the dressing room. Think it is noticeable that Eoin Morgan didn't pick either of them from the beginning of his ODI captaincy and the ODI sides have looked a lot more harmonious than the test side.
It just seems to me that the last couple of years became somewhat of a farewell tour for them, where they weren't capable of playing every test, but played here and there and it was all about them furthering their already superb records.
I'm hoping that the new regime have the approach that those in the squad are going to be available for every game when fit. Pleased to see Mahmood finally in the squad and will be interested to see how he goes.
I was speaking in terms of performance and on the basis that my character judgments of the players was purely speculation. But I have long had similar suspicions about their influence behind the scenes.
KP is and was a self-important cock, but I found his descriptions of the dressing room at the time very plausible. They'd had trouble with him previously, there was no guarantee he wouldn't dump England in public in favour of the IPL and other franchise cricket, so it was expedient for the ECB that he was identified as the problem and removed.
From 2012 onwards, Jimmy & Broad have been two of, if not the, senior players in the squad. For all the ridicule and horrific moments, look at the opposition our late 90s/early 00s teams faced. Australia being the most notable example. Look at that Australia vintage, and compare them to the Aussie sides England have faced on the last three tours.
That much-maligned England generation did not embarrass themselves in the way three touring parties featuring Anderson & Broad as senior bowlers have done.
I've never liked Broad who strikes me as a big time Charlie; and Jimmy, in spite of his performances, has been implicated in a number of drink-related disciplinary incidents, including having a drink poured over him by one of his own teammates in 2017, and on the recent tour, at age 39.
IF that is the case, the problem is - and maybe this was why a pliable yes man like Silverwood was picked - that if we are struggling to take wickets in May/June/September at Lord's or Trent Bridge, questions will be asked about why Anderson & Broad are not playing.
It would invite a lot of scrutiny over selection, pressure on the head coach, and it will take a big personality to drop the two highest wicket-takers in the history of English test cricket on the basis of something fans aren't privy to - like their influence on the dressing room.
(Sorry for the length of that post)
It was a good read Rory! I think in Cook and Root there are two captain's who haven't really stood up to them and I think it is evident that the coaching staff haven't either.
I have got the feeling that the whole set up is centred around them when they are there and it has become about them padding out their records. There have been a number of comments over the past few years (mainly from pundits from other countries) that both have overly cautious fields, on order to protect their averages. Again, it just seems that Root and Cook have just allowed this to happen.
They are both fantastic bowlers and have pretty unbelievable statistics, but this feels like a natural break point now and might be time to move on. If Archer was fit, it might be a little easier to make the decision.
Yeah, I think Cook and Root have both been much too close to Anderson & Broad. I'd never heard that the cautious fields were in order to protect their averages, so that's an interesting take.
You may well be right, Tom, I just think that if it's based on information that is in the public domain, it would be a big call to say on any given day of test cricket in England, that at least one of Broad & Anderson wouldn't be in the top three or four seam bowlers most likely to take wickets.
Whoever our next coach is, they'll need to make some big decisions and have the strength and reputation to convince fans and the media to trust them. The last thing we need is another Peter Moores type, under pressure from the beginning.
I think that is unfair, reducing scoring opportunities helps build pressure.
It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
This. Plus Stuart Broad is 35. He gets attached to Anderson and then them treated as a pair but he’s significantly younger and has plenty still to offer. However, I do think it’s significant that Root has been happy for the both of them to be left out multiple times and wonder if their off-field influence is unwelcome in certain quarters - something the interim coach and interim MD would be well aware of.It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
This. Plus Stuart Broad is 35. He gets attached to Anderson and then them treated as a pair but he’s significantly younger and has plenty still to offer. However, I do think it’s significant that Root has been happy for the both of them to be left out multiple times and wonder if their off-field influence is unwelcome in certain quarters - something the interim coach and interim MD would be well aware of.It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
I think Root is also a problem as a captain. He overthinks the game due to his lack of strategic awareness and makes tactical errors during the game. However I cannot think of anyone around at the moment who could be a good Test captain.
It's only right that Strauss should dismantle the squad that has failed miserably and plan for the future and you can't do that with a couple of fast bowlers heading towards 40 even if they have been superb in the past.
That's a fair point but in the short term, who's going to take the wickets they'd get usually. Archer isn't going to play any test cricket this year by all accounts as he returns from albow injury, and so you're then left with Wood and Robinson effectively.
Greatest player of my lifetime for sure. Second only to Bradman in history?
This might be the passage of time but I can't recall ever hating him. Being terrified of him yes but not hatred. Maybe I need to find my posts from pre 2005 Ashes to refute this.
A player who transcended national rivalries, a special talent the like of which we are unlikely to see again. At times he seemed to pick up wickets because of his reputation, he was in the batsman’s head before they’d faced a ball and by that point the batsman was halfway out already.
Honestly it's taken me the best part of 24 hours to process. I know that sounds a bit pathetic when talking about someone you don't know personally, but there we are. Warne exemplified something hard to define that I loved about the world, and it was weird to wake up in a world where he wasn't.Yes indeed. Well said Monty.
My love of Cricket was ignited by the great West Indian teams of the 70’s and 80’s and their world class players such as Sir Viv were heroes of mine.
In the least shocking news of the England tour to the West Indies, Ollie Robinson is injured
The 12 for the first test
Joe Root (captain), Jonny Bairstow, Zak Crawley, Ben Foakes (wicketkeeper), Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach, Alex Lees, Saqib Mahmood, Craig Overton, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood
I expect it'll be one of Overton, Mahmood and Woakes to miss out
Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
So many poor shots, it's like they've never played with a red ball before. For me this is a far worse performance than anything in Australia, it's a slow and pretty gentle wicket facing bowlers who are average at test level and we're throwing wickets away just as cheaply as we have against everyone else in the last couple of years.
😂Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Twat!
;)
See you there !😂Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Twat!
;)
See you there !😂Sir Vivian Richards Stadium Antigua awaits us this morning. Looking forward to a good days cricket😊
For any H&Veers out here Thursday is Villa shirt day and gather at the main gate for a group photo at lunch time.
Twat!
;)
Could one of the H&V’ers in the ground please grab that trumpet and shove it where the sun don’t shineIt’s much worse when you are actually close to it and even worse when pissed up football tourist join in the we are army bollocks. Other annoying factor is the organised music and dancing girls after every over.
Our attack looks incredibly ordinary.
Think we are witnessing the last throws of Roots captaincy….who should be next?
Yep England seem like quite a stagnant team - a lot of players who have been around a long while.
DOC Jonathan Finch ....""The England Women's A series that ran alongside the Ashes enabled a wider group of players to compete for a place in the squad which has made for some tough calls on selection."
All very well saying that, but they then basically picked the same players as usual
Root is having some 18 months.Yeah Roots a great cricketer - if only we could find a couple of openers...
Lawrence is looking really promising.
So disappointing to lose Lawrence so close to stumps. That sort of expansive shot isn’t needed in the last over of the day!
The pitch is a bit of a road again but I can’t help but think we will be all out for around 300. We never take advantage of strong positions.
I agree, you get 300-4 and batsmen 6-11 have a bit of freedom - we’ve seen it in the past with likes of Mo, Bairstow, Stokes, Prior & even Swann - if they had a good base they had the ability & attitude to take opposition out of games in a session. This has happened so rarely recently that you hope today we’ll cash in on the batsmen playing properly yesterday, been a long time coming.
Jade Dernbach was part of the Talksport commentary team today. He’s pretty good.
However, the best two young co-commentators are both in the BT studio. Carlos Brathwaite and Steven Finn. Hopefully we’ll hear them on TMS over the summer.
I hope we don't hear too much from Carlos....he's skippering the Bears push for T20 glory...lolJade Dernbach was part of the Talksport commentary team today. He’s pretty good.
However, the best two young co-commentators are both in the BT studio. Carlos Brathwaite and Steven Finn. Hopefully we’ll hear them on TMS over the summer.
I think Curtley Ambrose is very good - knows his stuff, doesn't follow the current vogue of talking non stop about very little, and has a great accent.
Has there ever been an innings where 10 and 11 are top scorers?
Another fucking pathetic effort to add to the plethora of fucking pathetic efforts. Is Graham Thorpe still enjoying 6 month holidays abroad as the batting coach?
Innocuous stuff from England so far.
Used to be that the bowling attack could get an iffy batting lineup out of jail.
Has there ever been an innings where 10 and 11 are top scorers?
Innocuous stuff from England so far.
Used to be that the bowling attack could get an iffy batting lineup out of jail.
100-6 now so not as innocuous as it might seem.
Innocuous stuff from England so far.
Used to be that the bowling attack could get an iffy batting lineup out of jail.
100-6 now so not as innocuous as it might seem.
Yeah, that was posted after 16 overs.
The game has moved on a wee bit since then, with a half fit Stokes the lightning rod (as usual).
Has there ever been an innings where 10 and 11 are top scorers?
They mentioned it this morning. Some time back in the 1880s I think they said!
Need to not let them off the hook like they did to us
I’m going for 5 wickets down before England achieve parity….
Why not turn the batting order upside down? The top order is dire and has been for years. Lower order to the rescue, again!
It’s tricky because if not Root then who?
Agree he’s a much better player then captain but how many of those players are certain starters to the degree they could be captains
Fair point - there’s space in the team for something new because so few are performingIt’s tricky because if not Root then who?
Agree he’s a much better player then captain but how many of those players are certain starters to the degree they could be captains
Whoever the best English qualified captain is in County Championship….when you have 1 and a half test class batsmen in the top 6 you can pick a captain to bat 6 because they aren’t likely to do worse than the current gutless wonders & they are worth their position if they captain properly
Am I right in thinking Rory Burns was a successful county captain? I know he hardly set the world alight as a batter but don't think he was significantly worse than some of the others who had a go.
I think they have always thought Stokes would get it eventually but will he take it given the added stress of the position?
Don't know what everyone's so angry about. The lads will be disappointed, but will take away the positives. What more do you want?
Don't know what everyone's so angry about. The lads will be disappointed, but will take away the positives. What more do you want?
Are you Paul Lambert? Only thing missing was "We go again" at the end.
Well there we go. Root thinks we’ve played lots of brilliant cricket.He should have been sat where I have been for the last 3 weeks. Apart from the charge for runs at Antigua and Barbados to set up declarations it's been very poor fayre. And our bowlers will get absolutely mullered in Pakistan. Pity their number 6 he's got very little chance of getting a bat.
Agreed mate. The problem is watching this live out here I could not see anything at all in the England set up up to make the difference. After the first two tests I said there will be no change in Grenada unless something happens that fundamentally impacts on type of cricket being played by two very ordinary teams. West Indies made that change and addition of Kyle Mayers turned the series in their favour. We did nothing to change anything and deserved nothing.Well there we go. Root thinks we’ve played lots of brilliant cricket.He should have been sat where I have been for the last 3 weeks. Apart from the charge for runs at Antigua and Barbados to set up declarations it's been very poor fayre. And our bowlers will get absolutely mullered in Pakistan. Pity their number 6 he's got very little chance of getting a bat.
We're at the sharp end now of relentlessly shite administration by a load of cloth eared, elitist, and all round racist twats, only interested in taking Sky's cash and keeping the riff-raff and any of the 'darkies' out of their game.
Fuck the lot of 'em.
No Lee is not talking bollocks. Somethings are obvious and can not be denied such as Archer and Mahmood but in all honestly not enough is being done to allow the latent talent to come through. We need a change and not just at Yorkshire CC.
Pig in shit mate. Thanks to Joe and Co we have had another great afternoon/evening on the beach😊
Pig in shit mate. Thanks to Joe and Co we have had another great afternoon/evening on the beach😊When you heading home ? Be good to catch up for a quick beer if you have a chance. If only to talk about the summer signings !
Flying to Barbados early Tuesday morning for onward connection to Heathrow. Planning to be in Umbrellas later today. If we are not there we will be in shack over on the left by the beach. Hopefully see you there😊Pig in shit mate. Thanks to Joe and Co we have had another great afternoon/evening on the beach😊When you heading home ? Be good to catch up for a quick beer if you have a chance. If only to talk about the summer signings !
We're booked in at Patrick's tomorrow evening then will probably head to umbrellas for an hour or so after just to see what's going on. No plans Tuesday at the moment. Fly Wednesday evening.
Don't know what everyone's so angry about. The lads will be disappointed, but will take away the positives. What more do you want?
Are you Paul Lambert? Only thing missing was "We go again" at the end.
I think he was taking the piss.
Hard to believe that Root could get worse as a captain, but he is doing. He's that bad that only Gower ranks lower in my experience.
The Brearley years show the importance of having a good captain at this level. Mike wasn't a good enough batsman but he got the best out of the other ten!
I watched the Warne memorial earlier. There were some fantastic stories about him but it was very emotional with some dust in eye moments when his kids spoke.
Mainly for olaftab as having just met him I know he travels - and the NZ correspondents on here - but I overheard last night from a tour operator the word is Mount Maunganui 16 Feb 2023 followed by Hamilton the week after. Warm up game in Christchurch area before the first test. Would seem to be backed up by lack of availability already of the apartments in Mt M we used last time on those dates (of course players and journos and tour groups get this stuff first).
England women cruising to victory
Good stuff. Thanks both.Mainly for olaftab as having just met him I know he travels - and the NZ correspondents on here - but I overheard last night from a tour operator the word is Mount Maunganui 16 Feb 2023 followed by Hamilton the week after. Warm up game in Christchurch area before the first test. Would seem to be backed up by lack of availability already of the apartments in Mt M we used last time on those dates (of course players and journos and tour groups get this stuff first).
If you can't get an apartment in the Mount try Tauranga, it's part of the same city and just down the road.
Anyone interested in coming to Christchurch for any games let me know.
Rob Key announced as Managing Director? Wow.
I’m not sure why people think that appointing Rob Key is so strange.
As well as his commentating work, he was already involved in cricket administration.
Seems a sensible, steady bloke. Just what’s needed at the moment, rather than a flash personality.
I’m not sure why people think that appointing Rob Key is so strange.
As well as his commentating work, he was already involved in cricket administration.
Seems a sensible, steady bloke. Just what’s needed at the moment, rather than a flash personality.
After yet another post-Ashes review/post mortem we need an imaginative appointment as MD of the England cricket team; someone who will be involved in the appointment of the next coach and the next captain. The chance to lay down a marker to show what is expected in red ball cricket. But no they’ve gone safe and the chance of a shake up is lost, so here’s to the next post-Ashes review/post mortem which will be around 2025.
They have missed an opportunity to shake things up and kick start English red ball cricket but no just another safe pair of hands will be topping up his pension.
I have a feeling that Buttler would make the best captain of the current crew, but he seems to have screwed the pooch with his recent batting performances. Having said that his Test average is 32.
Yeah it’ll be interesting, because I fear exactly that and he’ll try and take too much responsibility on himself. But in fairness he’s the best option.Yeah this is my thoughts exactly - best option, but not without potential challanges
Interesting that it looks like they’ll be putting Pope at 3.
Can you make an injury sub if needed?
One way of dealing with a lack of fast bowling depth is for Jimmy and Broad to bowl them out.
TMS saying that Leach has concussion symptoms and has been withdrawn.haha... harsh but true.
Therefore, England can bring in a spinner
Amazing day and a strange way for Parkinson to make his debut.
I’m only following by text, and have done with cricket for years abroad, but it feels like Test cricket is just very poor now. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I remember seeing 14+ wickets fall in a day in the 90s, even when England were truly abysmal, but (perhaps I’m just being grumpy) the notion of sticking around and just not getting out doesn’t seem in any mentality any more. Is it something else ?
Brain dead cricket from Stuart Broad. Flashing away instead of trying to hang around to support Ben Foakes.
Agree - his job was to support Foakes and was cheap - especially from someone nearly my ageBrain dead cricket from Stuart Broad. Flashing away instead of trying to hang around to support Ben Foakes.
These days Broad is either absolutely shit scared or just doesn’t give a flying feck about helping his team with the bat.
It’s not as if he’s facing Ambrose and Walsh. Southee and Boult are skilful bowlers but they’re unlikely to cause physical damage.
Respectfully, bollocks. All England's successes were achieved with the county game more or less as it is. Sick of seeing the county game blamed whenever England are incompetent.
Respectfully, bollocks. All England's successes were achieved with the county game more or less as it is. Sick of seeing the county game blamed whenever England are incompetent.
If you were unimpressed by England's batting...That's Nappalling. (sorry!)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61689669
For any other Test team, needing 60 odd runs with 5 wickets in hand and all day to bat, this would be a walk in the park but for England, this England we fear the worst.
If you were unimpressed by England's batting...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/61689669
Good effort by England this morning, which should ensure that they only lose by about 150-200 runs.
But in your defence I have played cricket against people from Tipton and generally they are not very good. So think your's was a good effort.Good effort by England this morning, which should ensure that they only lose by about 150-200 runs.
Brilliantly accurate prediction there, Rich. Nice one.
What a bloody player Root is.
Shout out to Foakes too, vital performance.
Tell you what NZ are off to a flier here.
Run rate over 4 an over, can't remember the last time that happening on the first morning of a Test in England.
We've lost Bumble, Gower and the incomparable Holding, now we have Darren fucking Gough.
Strange decision to bowl first.
Spent a decent day at Trent Bridge today albeit England were disappointing. Not sure why Stokes decided to field as both weather and pitch favoured batting. Very impressed with Mitchell. He’s going to be a major player at Test level in the next few years. Broad is really wasted and should not be in the Test team as he offers nothing.Ha ! Sharon and I were there too. Not the best was it. Probably not a bowling day obviously but Latham said he would have done the same and if Root catches Blundell on 0 things could have gone differently. Clearly looks a decent pitch however, so the important thing is to come back strongly tomorrow and then make a proper fist of it when we get a go. A good test for this team to see whether they've developed any sort of backbone and can respond well with the bat to scoreboard pressure.
Pity we missed each other but nevertheless it was a good day specially weatherwise. My next Test day is at Edgbaston on July 1st against India. A test match that should not be happening IMO. We initially bought tickets for the first day of South Africa match but ECB have moved that to Old Trafford and bent over backwards to accommodate India.Spent a decent day at Trent Bridge today albeit England were disappointing. Not sure why Stokes decided to field as both weather and pitch favoured batting. Very impressed with Mitchell. He’s going to be a major player at Test level in the next few years. Broad is really wasted and should not be in the Test team as he offers nothing.Ha ! Sharon and I were there too. Not the best was it. Probably not a bowling day obviously but Latham said he would have done the same and if Root catches Blundell on 0 things could have gone differently. Clearly looks a decent pitch however, so the important thing is to come back strongly tomorrow and then make a proper fist of it when we get a go. A good test for this team to see whether they've developed any sort of backbone and can respond well with the bat to scoreboard pressure.
I should add that I'm not optimistic !
Spot on.Pity we missed each other but nevertheless it was a good day specially weatherwise. My next Test day is at Edgbaston on July 1st against India. A test match that should not be happening IMO. We initially bought tickets for the first day of South Africa match but ECB have moved that to Old Trafford and bent over backwards to accommodate India.Spent a decent day at Trent Bridge today albeit England were disappointing. Not sure why Stokes decided to field as both weather and pitch favoured batting. Very impressed with Mitchell. He’s going to be a major player at Test level in the next few years. Broad is really wasted and should not be in the Test team as he offers nothing.Ha ! Sharon and I were there too. Not the best was it. Probably not a bowling day obviously but Latham said he would have done the same and if Root catches Blundell on 0 things could have gone differently. Clearly looks a decent pitch however, so the important thing is to come back strongly tomorrow and then make a proper fist of it when we get a go. A good test for this team to see whether they've developed any sort of backbone and can respond well with the bat to scoreboard pressure.
I should add that I'm not optimistic !
Ragged stuff and a shocking drop from Potts.
Going on the 2nd. Also 9th. And 16th. Plus Oval on the 12th. And Bristol on the 27th. Before Rennes on the 29th ! May need some help in the garden in July haha.Brilliant. You have your summer sorted better than me. I had a ticket for 9 July but gave it up as the day clashes with the next Eid therefore family priority :'(.
This will go down in history as one of the classic toss decisions.
This will go down in history as one of the classic toss decisions.I think Stokes has discovered very quickly that being a Test captain is a bit more than keeping up the spirit, being supportive and full of beans. It takes an astute mind that can plan day's play, counter adversary in play and keep adapting strategy and tactics to suit the prevailing situation in the "battlefield". He was mostly inffective yesterday and by the looks of it today. I guess he needs this summer to learn but he is not a natural Test captain.
Interesting. I don't think Kohli will make it as he has "run out". Smith will get there in the most boring way possible just like all his centuries. Out of Azam, Pant and Labuschagne my money is on the South African.....sorry I mean Australian, to get there first.
Interesting. I don't think Kohli will make it as he has "run out". Smith will get there in the most boring way possible just like all his centuries. Out of Azam, Pant and Labuschagne my money is on the South African.....sorry I mean Australian, to get there first.
Interesting stats, Smith will get there, he would be much closer if he hadn’t been banned for a paper based “misdemeanour”.
The test game is being marginalised by the shorter formats, it does make you question whether many more will get near that level of test runs.
I recall there being talk about the "big 4" (Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root) a few years back and thinking Root was definitely the weakest. This was around the time he wasn't converting 50s into centuries. Been proved very wrong last couple of years.
I recall there being talk about the "big 4" (Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root) a few years back and thinking Root was definitely the weakest. This was around the time he wasn't converting 50s into centuries. Been proved very wrong last couple of years.
I think we'll still see them playing positive because I suspect when Stokes went in it was with the intent to get to 500 today. The difference now is that Foakes will work more in 1s and 2s, I think Root will carry on being aggressive.
I'm not sure the commentators have really understood the point though, banging on about Stokes giving NZ the initiative.
I think we'll still see them playing positive because I suspect when Stokes went in it was with the intent to get to 500 today. The difference now is that Foakes will work more in 1s and 2s, I think Root will carry on being aggressive.
I'm not sure the commentators have really understood the point though, banging on about Stokes giving NZ the initiative.
In which case I'm not sure I've understood the point either, Stokes having essentially just given away his wicket with a totally reckless shot, in pursuit of what strategic purpose?
Not arguing that Stokes was right to push things along, but he’d already failed with a slog sweep earlier in the over and then shown that he could hit it out the ground straight.
He should have stuck with the latter plan.
That is the expert opinion of UK Redsox……one game for Lydney CC 1st XI :)
224-7 at close.
All three results possible on the final day.
Good luck.Cheers. The CEO on TMS this afternoon to announce the policy for tomorrow said they hope to be half full. I suspect she's massively underestimated demand.
Is it still a sell out if no one's paid to get in!Ha good point. I don't see Stokes playing for a draw. I think either 2-0 or 1-1.
My predictions is NZ tail add 50 plus more, England lose early wickets then bat for the draw.
Got some after 2+ hours in the q. Virtually all gone will be a sell out for sure.
I love playing the Kiwis. They play the game hard but fair and every series is competitive and entertaining.Yes. My favourite foreign cricket team....and rugby of course.
Now confirmed as capacity reached. I may know someone with spares if you're still interested. PM me.Got some after 2+ hours in the q. Virtually all gone will be a sell out for sure.
I tried after work but got fed up of the queue online.
I should have booked as soon as the Notts CEO came in TMS to make the announcement
I love playing the Kiwis. They play the game hard but fair and every series is competitive and entertaining.Yes. My favourite foreign cricket team....and rugby of course.
I get that it's part of their culture, but why are the other side expected to stand there and watch? Let them crack on and allow the other blokes a few extra minutes playing soggy biscuit, drinking beer from each other's arse cracks, or whatever rugby boys do before games.Love it ;D and I agree.
I don't mind the NZ rugby team dancing around as if they're 15 Aussie goalkeepers.
What I don't like is that the opposition if expected to respect them while the do it.
I'm not saying that the other team should be pointing and laughing. However, I'd like to see teams just ignore it all and carry on warming up.
I don't mind the NZ rugby team dancing around as if they're 15 Aussie goalkeepers.
What I don't like is that the opposition if expected to respect them while the do it.
I'm not saying that the other team should be pointing and laughing. What I'd like is to see teams just ignore it all and carry on warming up.
I don't mind the NZ rugby team dancing around as if they're 15 Aussie goalkeepers.
What I don't like is that the opposition if expected to respect them while the do it.
I'm not saying that the other team should be pointing and laughing. What I'd like is to see teams just ignore it all and carry on warming up.
If they want to do their dance, the other team should be free to respond or not as they see fit, including pointing and laughing if they feel like it. It's designed to fire up the All Blacks and give them an edge, so why should people solemnly respect that. Load of bollocks.
You can’t really ask for from a Test Match than having all 3 results still possible on the final day.
My predictions is NZ tail add 50 plus more, England lose early wickets then bat for the draw.
That's that fucked then.Or not!
Bairstow is not fucking about here
Bairstow 4 deliveries and 4 runs away from the fastest Test century by an Englishman....
Bairstow 4 deliveries and 4 runs away from the fastest Test century by an Englishman....
99 from 74, needs one run from his next delivery...
My predictions is NZ tail add 50 plus more, England lose early wickets then bat for the draw.
Won't be calling myself Nostradamus just yet but ...
Bairstow 4 deliveries and 4 runs away from the fastest Test century by an Englishman....
99 from 74, needs one run from his next delivery...
Jessop's record survives :)
This has been a fascinating test match to watch.You don't say :)
Bairstow gone.That's it a collapse will follow. All out for 289 if history is anything to go by.
Maybe the white ball game isn't having too negative an impact on players
Well that was fun ! Makes up for some of the turgid stuff in the West Indies earlier this year.
Well that was fun ! Makes up for some of the turgid stuff in the West Indies earlier this year.Days like this make up for the other hundreds of days we spend watching dross.
Yep !Well that was fun ! Makes up for some of the turgid stuff in the West Indies earlier this year.
Well worth the wait on the website last night!
There is far too much nonsense talked about different formats of cricket. Too much talk of specialist this and specialist that. Too much talk about colour of the ball and length of the uniform. This can't be done because it's Test match conditions and that can be done because it's limited overs. All of this leads to barriers being built, mental barriers in players minds. Great players with good techniques will not succeed in any format if their mental approach is not right. It's not the format of cricket that defeats them it's the format of their conditioning. Great Test cricketer of the past who never played a single limited over game will no doubt still excel in that format. Despite Bairstow's wonderful knock the record for England's fastest Test century is still held by one of those greats. If England needed 299 in 50 overs to win a match no one would have bet against them so it was totally right that the coach and players adapted the correct approach and got the job done. Remove all shackles and play the game in the most positive way you can whatever format it is. It's still about hitting a ball with the bat and uprooting 3 stumps at the other end. SIMPLE!
England could get well over 400 here
Livingstone 54 off 17 balls, missed the white ball fastest 50 by 1 ball.
I reckon that Livingstone’s hitting has stopped Buttler from getting a double century
It's a stretch to describe this as first class cricket really.
Got a wicket alert earlier and assumed it was the women's team. Why are the men playing an ODI in the middle of a test series?
It's a stretch to describe this as first class cricket really.
It’s not first class cricket, it’s List A
England finish with 498 to set the new ODI record
If one of those waist high full tosses had been no-balled, we could have seen 500
Highest list A by two runs over Surrey v Gloucs in 2007 by the look of it. Some earlier list A games were up to 60 overs.
Highest first class total is 1107 but that was in 190.7 eight ball overs! List A is basically the one day equivalent of first class. One dayers are not first class.
Highest list A by two runs over Surrey v Gloucs in 2007 by the look of it. Some earlier list A games were up to 60 overs.
Highest first class total is 1107 but that was in 190.7 eight ball overs! List A is basically the one day equivalent of first class. One dayers are not first class.
i think i heard on commentary Buttler and Livingstone put on a hundred in 26 balls
i was wrong oops
Not a bad effort against the equivalent of a Birmingham Parks League team.
Not a bad effort against the equivalent of a Birmingham Parks League team.
They’re missing a few players. I assumed that Colin Ackermann was injured, but he’s playing in the Blast for Leicestershire
Not sure why Timm van der Gugten isn’t playing. Just those two would make a difference
I can see Scott Edwards getting a look at a higher level, either in England or Australia
How bizarre was Nicholls dismissal, can't remember ever seeing anything like that in a Test match. What would have happened if the ball had hit the umpire instead?
How bizarre was Nicholls dismissal, can't remember ever seeing anything like that in a Test match. What would have happened if the ball had hit the umpire instead?
law 33.2.2.3 states that a catch will be fair if:
"A fielder catches the ball after it has touched the wicket, an umpire, another fielder, a runner or the other batter."
Foakes out with COVID, Billings in. Weird way to avoid being a one cap wonder.
Another good match here where 3 results are still in play going in to day 5.
England should wrap it up by lunchtime tomorrow. Hopefully a corner has been turned.
I like New Zealand, have a great respect for them. But in all three games they’ve made some poor selection calls - slightly odd as generally that’s an area of strength.
England should wrap it up by lunchtime tomorrow. Hopefully a corner has been turned.
I think play is likely to start around 3 at Headingley. This will allow about 50 overs to be bowled. England will need 25 or fewer.
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
It's not just the pitches but time and weather as well. I agree that it is less a factor in recent years, but there have only been four over 400 in the entire history of test cricket.
What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
It's not just the pitches but time and weather as well. I agree that it is less a factor in recent years, but there have only been four over 400 in the entire history of test cricket.
True but how many times do teams need to score 400 and have the time left to give it a shot?
New Zealand tour dates confirmed 16-20 Feb Mount Manganui 24-28 Feb Wellington (day / night tests seemingly).Brilliant. Hopefully see you out there :) And only one home game v Arsenal missed.
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.Maybe the poor punter who has paid around £300 (tickets plus other expenses) for couple days cricket in that match would want to be entertained?
Also, if England are one ahead in the series during the fifth test against Australia, no way should they be taking on a run chase or declaring in the cause of entertainment
However it's been a mental block for so long. Not many teams attempted anything close to 300. So just like that match in Kolkata when asking teams to follow on become extinct these 3 wins are going to change the approach to 4th inning's chase in Test cricket.What a transformation, blimey. I think I read this morning that it's the first time a test team have chased down 250+ three tests in a row. Seems a life time ago now that you'd start to get nervous anytime England were set 150+ to win.There is a myth that's built around 4th inning's chase in Test cricket. I have never understood why it is so particularly these days when pitches don't really break up. The biggest satisfying factor was not so much the 4 chases but England's resilience to keep recovering and staying in the game again and again. This has been very demoralising for the Kiwis.
It's not just the pitches but time and weather as well. I agree that it is less a factor in recent years, but there have only been four over 400 in the entire history of test cricket.
True but how many times do teams need to score 400 and have the time left to give it a shot?
Well that was my point. a high-ish run chase in the 4th innings isn't a myth because you've usually got one or all of the score, time and pitch against you.
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.Maybe the poor punter who has paid around £300 (tickets plus other expenses) for couple days cricket in that match would want to be entertained?
Also, if England are one ahead in the series during the fifth test against Australia, no way should they be taking on a run chase or declaring in the cause of entertainment
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.
This new England attitude will need to be reigned in a bit. eg Stokes' doesn't need to go all out from ball one. His best innings are sometimes slow builders followed by attack.Maybe the poor punter who has paid around £300 (tickets plus other expenses) for couple days cricket in that match would want to be entertained?
Also, if England are one ahead in the series during the fifth test against Australia, no way should they be taking on a run chase or declaring in the cause of entertainment
They might want to be, but they shouldn't be.
If England are one ahead in the Ashes and batting in the second innings of the final test, it's the second coming of Chris Tavare that's required
Who’s off to Edgbaston for the India test? I’m going on day 4 and depending on how the game is positioned I will go on day 5 tooI'm actually sat here at home printing my tickets off for first 4 days plus the for the ODI on 9th.
Who’s off to Edgbaston for the India test? I’m going on day 4 and depending on how the game is positioned I will go on day 5 too
England Women probably looking at a first innings deficit in the Test.
And I know this truly sexist, but I ❤️ Lauren Bell. Nifty pace bowler.
England not coming to Christchurch when they travel here in Summer. Only two tests?? Seems pretty stupid.
Everyone should refuse to play India until they start playing Pakistan. I'm still going to the England v India test, mind 😄
Missed the start. Why was first ball at 10:30 ?
Crawley has to hold that, really poor drop.
"KP" on commentary. 'Sake.
I think all tests in England should start at 10:30, the light is great by then and it gives a little more 'wiggle-room' to get extra overs in if there are delays.
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?
"KP" on commentary. 'Sake.
I'm glad it's not just me he annoys the fuck out of.
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
It was great knock from Pant, but blimey this year’s batch of balls is rough.Despite England letting it slip away after that ever so nice Mr Kohli demolished his stumps I enjoyed Pants and Jadeja’s batting. A decent day even allowing for the deluge around lunch time.
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
When Broad is good he’s unplayable, When he’s bad he’s awful. 35 runs off an over when bowling at numbers 10 & 11 is shocking.
The problem with Crawley is he’s just not showing that he’s going to come out the other side of this.
How many more chances will Crawley get?The more chances he drops the more chances he gets to make amends it seems.
OK UKR I have done that joke many times. On here as well as everywhere else.Butcher (who is great btw) has just called it the Birmingham City End. Good God Almighty, see how it ends?The stadium announcer calls it Birmingham end which is bollocks. It should be City End.
Apparently, on TMS, Ramps suggested naming it after an ex-player……Ian Bell
When Broad is good he’s unplayable, When he’s bad he’s awful. 35 runs off an over when bowling at numbers 10 & 11 is shocking.
Just smashed the previous record by 7 runs as well.
Bairstow has been superb again. I think Jo's Buttler would thrive in this team now, not Billings. Oh, and Kohli has been an arse and had a spat with Bairstow earlier.....
Bairstow has been superb again. I think Jo's Buttler would thrive in this team now, not Billings. Oh, and Kohli has been an arse and had a spat with Bairstow earlier.....
Buttler said on Friday that he’s focusing on white ball cricket and is not considering playing test cricket for the foreseeable.
When Broad is good he’s unplayable, When he’s bad he’s awful. 35 runs off an over when bowling at numbers 10 & 11 is shocking.
Just smashed the previous record by 7 runs as well.
With his experience as well. He's not a kid who got flustered. Incredibly poor bowling.
100th Test catch for Jimmy
Per Zaltz, 6 players have 100 catches, 100 wickets and 1000 runs in Tests
Botham
Warne
Sobers
Hooper
Kallis
Anderson
Kevin Pietersen is doing my head in with his commentary!
Please please England do not lose a wicket tonight. I have my ticket for tomorrow.
That "Don't take me home" chant is the most annoying song in sport. Worse than "Swing Low"
I will arrive about 10. Where about do you do your duty?Please please England do not lose a wicket tonight. I have my ticket for tomorrow.
Get there early my friend, gates open @ 9.00am
I volunteer there
Yes however it sort of works overseas.That "Don't take me home" chant is the most annoying song in sport. Worse than "Swing Low"
Agreed, I end up muting when watching on TV.
I will arrive about 10. Where about do you do your duty?Please please England do not lose a wicket tonight. I have my ticket for tomorrow.
Get there early my friend, gates open @ 9.00am
I volunteer there
Kevin Pietersen is doing my head in with his commentary!
Beyond awful.
Another bloody good Test match. Of course, I went on the wet Second Day! Still, I've got Broad's history-making over to look back on and say "I was there!"
Joe Root is incredible.
Joe Root is incredible.
He really is, he just appears in total control.
Joe Root is incredible.
He really is, he just appears in total control.
Absolutely serene, must be soul destroying to bowl to.
Maybe this new England isn't really good at anything at all apart from chasing totals. Well, as long as you're infinitely good at that, doesn't matter!
Well done England. Great result again. Odds on winning all tests this summer? How good are SA these days?
Well done England. Great result again. Odds on winning all tests this summer? How good are SA these days?
They have come out of a poor period of performances but have turned that around. They’re second in the test championship behind the Aussies so it should be a hard fought series. Just got to get the white ball stuff out of the way first!
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
Great overall performance and almost perfect morning. Both batsman played superably and did their job however there was total lack of tension in the match due to India's attitude. They were not at all bothered to break a sweat and introduce some jeopardy in the play and rattle the batters. The visit to Edgbaston was, for me, totally spoiled by a team that almost forfeited the mornings play despite having 119 rund to defend. Maybe they did what their Board should have done in the first place last year and conceded the match.India were broken by the brilliance of Root and Bairstow yesterday. When Lees was run out they thought they were going to win - as they did for most of the game - demonstrated by Kohli's antics.
Anyway well done England.
Great overall performance and almost perfect morning. Both batsman played superably and did their job however there was total lack of tension in the match due to India's attitude. They were not at all bothered to break a sweat and introduce some jeopardy in the play and rattle the batters. The visit to Edgbaston was, for me, totally spoiled by a team that almost forfeited the mornings play despite having 119 rund to defend. Maybe they did what their Board should have done in the first place last year and conceded the match.
Anyway well done England.
Great overall performance and almost perfect morning. Both batsman played superably and did their job however there was total lack of tension in the match due to India's attitude. They were not at all bothered to break a sweat and introduce some jeopardy in the play and rattle the batters. The visit to Edgbaston was, for me, totally spoiled by a team that almost forfeited the mornings play despite having 119 rund to defend. Maybe they did what their Board should have done in the first place last year and conceded the match.
Anyway well done England.
Requesting a change of ball, when it was reverse swinging a lot was bizarre too.
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
And by the way I am glad Barmy Army have dropped the Bairstow song with that "I will let you shag my wife" line in it. About time.
As mentioned several times before, the Barmy Army really get on my nerves.
I don't mind the odd Root chant or a chorus of 'Oh Jimmy Jimmy' but most of the time they're singing about themselves or that trumpet is blaring.
It puts me off attending international matches in person
aside from that I'm not sure what I think about the balance of this team, if you accept that, in t20, Ali Curran and Livingstone are genuine all-rounders we've picked 7 bowlers. I hope we don't end up short with the bat because you could easily replace one of Jordan, Willey or Parkinson without really losing much. I guess it depends how much you want to see from Livingstone but, for me, his sheer amount of variations makes him really effective in this format.
I’m not sure it’s a big concern, still time before next major tournament and Buttler was in outstanding form recently, albeit in Twenty20.
Interesting choice, but probably makes sense. He’s reached the pinnacle in that format and basically was the central figure in the World Cup final. Strange timing one game into a series.
Stokes is retiring from 50 over international cricket after tomorrow’s game against the Saffers.Good man hopefully to concentrate on Test cricket. Tail is no longer wagging the dog.
Both Jimmy and Woody have been great on TMS.
The latter has a touch of the Tuffers comedy about him
Well the Summer of cricket is rattling along wonderfully only to be all but stopped in it's tracks by the Hundred.
About as welcome as Keir Starmer at the Durham Miners Gala.
Well the Summer of cricket is rattling along wonderfully only to be all but stopped in it's tracks by the Hundred.
About as welcome as Keir Starmer at the Durham Miners Gala.
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Fucking BOOOOOOOO.
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Fucking BOOOOOOOO.
I know I'm not the only one here, but I don't understand who supports this. The one good thing to come of it is having a women's match before the men's. The rest is a complete waste of time, and nothing that couldn't have been achieved by rebranding the blast.
Hoping against hope that the stupid competition falls flat on its face this year & that group of supporters it was designed for completely lose interest.
The Hundred is confirmed until at least 2028
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/62050292
Fucking BOOOOOOOO.
It will be good to see test cricket back this week, the first test against the Saffers starts at Lords on Wednesday
Not soon enough. He should have gone long ago but almost certainly not selected this season.
Not soon enough. He should have gone long ago but almost certainly not selected this season.
He is only in because so many England opening bowlers are injured.
No weekend test cricket to enjoy by the looks of things...
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
It's been coming though really hasn't it? For all the fun of the recent run chases, sooner or later if they want to be a top test nation again they're going to have play consistently well in all areas of the game. You can't rely on swashbuckling centuries from Bairstow and Stokes to save you every match.
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
It's been coming though really hasn't it? For all the fun of the recent run chases, sooner or later if they want to be a top test nation again they're going to have play consistently well in all areas of the game. You can't rely on swashbuckling centuries from Bairstow and Stokes to save you every match.
Well that was horrible. Just played badly in all facets. It doesn’t how aggressive you are, or aren’t, if you play that badly you’ll lose. The bowling is too samey too.
It's been coming though really hasn't it? For all the fun of the recent run chases, sooner or later if they want to be a top test nation again they're going to have play consistently well in all areas of the game. You can't rely on swashbuckling centuries from Bairstow and Stokes to save you every match.
Exactly this….openers still look beyond ropey, Pope is doing ok but lots of room to improve, Root is the man,.Bairstow has had a rich vein but you know he’ll go back to walking wicket as quickly, Stokes is Stokes, Foakes will def be under the pump to get a Billings etc in the side to bolster batting & bowlers beyond the old guard looks pretty thin.
Far too many players are promising not necessarily achieving….can see Jimmy & Broad still being in there next summer at this rate
Bloody well done Crawley.
Bloody well done Crawley.
Foakes has turned into a pretty useful lower-order bat, hasn't he?
Foakes has turned into a pretty useful lower-order bat, hasn't he?
Number 7 isn't really lower-order
Delighted for Foakes, also his perceived weakness was against real express pace. A century against that attack is massive.
One more wicket for Anderson and he's the highest (pace) wicket taker ever. Tied with Glenn McGrath at the moment. I can see him getting over a thousand wickets.
Is it including ODIs?
Aaah maybe that's it, apologies Risso.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283980.html
So Roy’s form has cost him his World Cup spot.
How on earth do you break your leg playing golf?!
How on earth do you break your leg playing golf?!
And Harry Brook replaces Bairstow in the test side for the 3rd test which starts tomorrow.
And Harry Brook replaces Bairstow in the test side for the 3rd test which starts tomorrow.
Glad that he's getting a chance after being around the squad most of the summer
How on earth do you break your leg playing golf?!Knowing him he probably fell off a tree whilst shagging the club captain’s wife.
Strange decision to delay the start in the sunshine when there was a huge storm on the radar due to hit right around the new start time. With the forecast as is I suspect we won't see much play today now.
Strange decision to delay the start in the sunshine when there was a huge storm on the radar due to hit right around the new start time. With the forecast as is I suspect we won't see much play today now.
Heavy overnight rain in London meant a wet outfield at the scheduled start time.
Blimey England making up for lost time here.
Hopefully one day soon electricity will be invented and then test matches won’t have to stop for bad light.And this is the bit I don't get when people say the Queen did a lot for us!
The umpires were applying the rules as they stand, let’s have a more common sense approach introduced. If both captains agree, regardless of the light then the game should continue to try and force a result. How much will it cost to open the ground tomorrow, pay the stewards etc when just 33 runs are needed?Stewards will still have to paid regardless and ground will make more money from say 10K turning for an hour and drinking for two hours. However it should be like Nasser and Thorpe in Karachi back in 2000, leave it to the batters to accept conditions.
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
I fail to see why the bad light judgement lies solely with the umpires. What was wrong with offering it to the batters?
And why were runners banned?
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
Both sides have great bowling attacks, if anything the South African bowlers are better than ours. However both sides have brittle batting line ups hence the short tests.
I fail to see why the bad light judgement lies solely with the umpires. What was wrong with offering it to the batters?
And why were runners banned?
They changed the rules on bad light a few seasons ago. Now the decision to go off or not rests solely with the umpires with no player consultation.
I fail to see why the bad light judgement lies solely with the umpires. What was wrong with offering it to the batters?
And why were runners banned?
They changed the rules on bad light a few seasons ago. Now the decision to go off or not rests solely with the umpires with no player consultation.
I know that, I was wondering why Thant was the case.
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
Both sides have great bowling attacks, if anything the South African bowlers are better than ours. However both sides have brittle batting line ups hence the short tests.
Three tests, three results, each in three days. Doesn't scream quality series, does it?
Ashes all done and dusted by the end of July. Everyone loves an "Ashes half a summer".
Wankers.
Ashes all done and dusted by the end of July. Everyone loves an "Ashes half a summer".
Wankers.
Imagine they need the test players to play their flagship BS tournament in the summer….
Ashes all done and dusted by the end of July. Everyone loves an "Ashes half a summer".
Wankers.
Imagine they need the test players to play their flagship BS tournament in the summer….
They do unfortunately. The only home international cricket next August is a T20 against the Kiwis on the 30th August. Madness.
As Friday's game was abandoned, does that mean that Chris Woakes's wickets will be expunged from the records?No. Play was legitimate within rules until abandoned.
Either way, Woakes is the most underrated cricketer of his generation.Agree with you totally. He has contributed enormously to England and the Bears over the years. I love him, ok that’s a bit strong, but a totally underrated player. A James Milner of cricket IMO.
Now the warm-ups are done, we look in good shape going into the World Cup. Was listening to a discussion on the radio the other day and someone made the point that the only real question about the side is the death bowling. They were saying that it has probably cost us winning the last two T20 World Cups, but someone countered that the conditions in those two defeats probably favoured batting second.
All in all though, it looks a strong side, with some real power hitting in the top order, quality spin options and a varied seam attack. Think that starting team could look something like:
Buttler, Hales, Malan, Stokes, Brook, Livingstone, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Wood, Topley
Suppose the one dilemma might be choosing between Brook and Livingstone, moving Ali up to six and bringing in another seam option like Sam Curran or Willey.
Now the warm-ups are done, we look in good shape going into the World Cup. Was listening to a discussion on the radio the other day and someone made the point that the only real question about the side is the death bowling. They were saying that it has probably cost us winning the last two T20 World Cups, but someone countered that the conditions in those two defeats probably favoured batting second.
All in all though, it looks a strong side, with some real power hitting in the top order, quality spin options and a varied seam attack. Think that starting team could look something like:
Buttler, Hales, Malan, Stokes, Brook, Livingstone, Ali, Woakes, Rashid, Wood, Topley
Suppose the one dilemma might be choosing between Brook and Livingstone, moving Ali up to six and bringing in another seam option like Sam Curran or Willey.
Curran must play, he’s easily our best death bowler.
Curran has made a strong case with both bat and ball in the warm up game today to be in the starting 11
Curran has made a strong case with both bat and ball in the warm up game today to be in the starting 11
Curran has made a strong case with both bat and ball in the warm up game today to be in the starting 11
He’s made it in the Australia series too. He’s some cricketer, he just as a remarkable ability to impact games.
England won the toss and will bowl.
In other news the Crims got spanked by the Kiwis.
India v Pakistan what a finish!
Struggling to see why South Africa weren't just awarded the win when they had already passed the number of runs they would have needed after the minimum five over requirement.
Although unlikely, Zimbabwe could claim that they'd have taken a few wickets in the two unbowled overs. That would then push the DLS par score up at the 5 over mark.
It looks strange but i guess it followed procedure
Another Brexit bonus. It really is time to let Ireland have a go at running Britain.
It might be a bit rich for a British person to complain about rain disruptions but I would say the decision to play multiple fixtures at the same venue is looking very daft.
England in huge trouble now. Will have to win both games and that still might not be enough.
England in huge trouble now. Will have to win both games and that still might not be enough.
Stokes has gone off the field, it looks like he’s damaged a finger on his left hand. It’s possibly the same finger that he broke in the IPL and kept him out of the game for a long time.
Good and important win.
Afghanistan doing their best to help us out. If they reach 122 against the Crims we only need to win against Sri Lanka, no need to worry about run rates. They are 96-2 off 12 overs so should get there easily, might even win the game.
Afghanistan doing their best to help us out. If they reach 122 against the Crims we only need to win against Sri Lanka, no need to worry about run rates. They are 96-2 off 12 overs so should get there easily, might even win the game.
Cricinfo and Sky reckon they need to keep them below 106.
Thinking back to our game against Ireland this shows why DLS needs a rethink in T20. What teams can get off the last 3/4 overs is way more than the calculations allow for.
I suspect we would have won the Ireland game had it been completed. But we fully deserved to lose and showed a real lack of game management.
Honestly these England boys ...they never listen I said take it easy ;D
Interesting pitch - as soon as the ball scuffed up it seemed to become pretty tricky. Hales’ knock was key and Stokes played an excellent knock.
Lsvilla was compelling morning of T20 cricket. Why do SA do it again and again? Think you could be right about the final. England I think will deffo beat India.Hiya. No I don't think so. Home on the 17th. Will probably spend late November and December in front of the fire watching the footy World Cup - although I am very tempted Lahore was amazing and met some great contacts for tickets / hospitality etc if I went particularly to Islamabad. Are you going ? We're definitely going to NZ and I want to go to Bangladesh in March but that would be another solo one as Sharon wouldn't do it.
Are you going to Pakistan for Test series?
terrific start from England. Massive opportunity.
If India get 160 here i think it’d be incredible hard to chase.
Ha ha, that was as funny as fuck!
Take that you fucking arrogant ******. (aimed more at Indian cricket board rather then players)
Yes yes...thought the same and was going to post that but child in me got the insult in first.Take that you fucking arrogant ******. (aimed more at Indian cricket board rather then players)
Though smacking the winning six over the top of a flailing Kohli was pretty sweet.
Yes yes...thought the same and was going to post that but child in me got the insult in first.Take that you fucking arrogant ******. (aimed more at Indian cricket board rather then players)
Though smacking the winning six over the top of a flailing Kohli was pretty sweet.
If India get 160 here i think it’d be incredible hard to chase.
Can you predict a 5-0 home win tonight please Paul :-)
Think it’s fair to say reintegration of Hales has gone ok so far :-)
I hope weather doesn't ruin the final because it could be a belter of a game.
Duckworth Lewis cold be a factor so wickets are vital to keep the asking rate down.
Dil strikes.
Not bad for someone only there "for wrong reasons".Dil strikes.What a brilliant over that was.
It’s starting to rainThere will still be some play even if it does rain. Restricting Pakistan to such a mediocre total will help as well if it's only 10 overs.
Not bad for someone only there "for wrong reasons".Dil strikes.What a brilliant over that was.
https://wisden.com/series-stories/t20-world-cup-2022-series-stories/mark-butcher-adil-rashids-england-selection-race-eng-ind-t20wc
Bugger, didn’t want that…Hales gone
Surely England can't lose a third World Cup game in one weekend. Surely...
Anyway, confident hat back on, be nice to see a Brummie knock the winning run.
Afridi not likely to bowl his remaining 2 overs.
Surely England can't lose a third World Cup game in one weekend. Surely...
Anyway, confident hat back on, be nice to see a Brummie knock the winning run.
Surely England can't lose a third World Cup game in one weekend. Surely...
Anyway, confident hat back on, be nice to see a Brummie knock the winning run.
This is on, come on Moeen!
Mainly for Olaftab - appears the first test in Pakistan may be moved from Rawalpindi to Karachi. To be confirmed next week.Now seems that the schedule has been confirmed as originally planned.
Mental start from England.
Haven't been around here since the WC started but yes good that it stayed put. "The Captain" would have committed political suicide by carrying on with his movement in the capital in this period causing the match to be moved.Mainly for Olaftab - appears the first test in Pakistan may be moved from Rawalpindi to Karachi. To be confirmed next week.Now seems that the schedule has been confirmed as originally planned.
Jessop still has his record, which is nice for us Glos supportersDoes he still have the camera shop in Temple Row?
Is this just the flattest batting wicket there's ever been?!
Is this just the flattest batting wicket there's ever been?!Far too friendly this pitch but here is one flatter.
Is this just the flattest batting wicket there's ever been?!
Stunning isn't it. Best evidence the flat-earth nutters will ever find.
There is a possible win here in the next two days.Yep. I make England favourites. Skybet disagree and favour the draw.
To even get into a position to win on such a fucking awful wicket is astonishing, and yes, Pakistan might chase it down but this is transforming Test cricket.
To even get into a position to win on such a fucking awful wicket is astonishing, and yes, Pakistan might chase it down but this is transforming Test cricket.It’s not an awful wicket. An awful wicket is where match is over in 2 and half days and 3/4 players take nasty knocks due to uneven bounce.
To even get into a position to win on such a fucking awful wicket is astonishing, and yes, Pakistan might chase it down but this is transforming Test cricket.It’s not an awful wicket. An awful wicket is where match is over in 2 and half days and 3/4 players take nasty knocks due to uneven bounce.
Why are they not getting in the full overs even once in this test? If it's because of bad light.. turn the lights on, FFS! Cricket really doesn't help itself.
Or start an hour earlier, it was perfect conditions when they were warming up this morning.There are a couple of problems. This is winter season over there and Pindi suffers from huge amount of pollution, not quite Delhi or Shanghai standard but nevertheless enough to impact light both in the morning and late afternoon. Floodlights work best when atmosphere is clean and clear.
So now County cricket needs to get on the red ball bandwagon, more red ball cricket on weekends and no elongated breaks for contrived rubbish like The Hundred.
County coaches also need to look at this and play like this, if England are to continue playing "Bazball" for the next few years we need a conveyor belt of talent coming through who are able to shift seamlessly from county to Test.
I think the bit that annoys me is that detractors seem to suggest it’s just slog and no skill. Throughout the batting and, in particular, in the field it’s really skilful and considered. It’s just maximising aggression as part of that.100% - its aggressive but not reckless. I think it will catch on, and others will replicate and it will be the "style" of this generation of test teams
I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
As much as they might like us to think that all series are as important as the others, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they're in a declaration situation during the Ashes.
As great as Babar is, would they take the same risk against Warner, Smith and Labuschagne
Yes because other Captains have done that and came up good against Australia on the subcontinent. The thing that will impact Stokes decision is not Smith & Co but the overall situation. For example is it a first test in the series, does he need to win to save series, or by losing does he let them back into the series etc etc.I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
As much as they might like us to think that all series are as important as the others, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they're in a declaration situation during the Ashes.
As great as Babar is, would they take the same risk against Warner, Smith and Labuschagne
I agree, I think that Stokes will go for it.
Whether he'll go for it a second time if it goes very wrong the first time, is probably a better question.
I thought Stokes should have batted on for twenty minutes after tea, which means we probably wouldn't have scored this brilliant win.
As much as they might like us to think that all series are as important as the others, it'll be interesting to see what happens if they're in a declaration situation during the Ashes.
As great as Babar is, would they take the same risk against Warner, Smith and Labuschagne
Surprising decision after the way Stokes praised Foakes when he was appointed captain.
Probably wanted a bit more bowling cover if Wood breaks down
Might be new England but a spinner on debut ripping through us is very traditional.
Looks a disappointing score but you just never know with this team.
Babar Azam is a wonderful batsman.
(that should do it ;) )
The benefit of England’s approach is they got 280. I think some people forget that we’ve seen us be more judicious in the past and still get rolled over. I reckon if we’d been tentative today we would have still been out, but probably for about 150.
Match is wonderfully balanced with slight edge for England.
Unfortunate choice/timing of photograph, or is Robinson still a bit of a nob ?Not seeing anything wrong there IMO. It's international sport.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/800/cpsprodpb/46D8/production/_127963181_gettyimages-1448068158.jpg)
We still need another 100 or so to bat Pakistan out of the game. Hope this tails wags a bit in the morning, definitely ours to lose now.
We still need another 100 or so to bat Pakistan out of the game. Hope this tails wags a bit in the morning, definitely ours to lose now.
On this pitch I think we might have enough already but given how much time there is I think we'll bat until lunch if we can.
Well Pakistan have made a cracking start. Not panic stations yet, but need to start making inroads.
Well Pakistan have made a cracking start. Not panic stations yet, but need to start making inroads.
It’s certainly game on, we need a breakthrough soon though. Imam may not bat, he’s at a hospital having a scan on a hamstring injury so we should be able to capitalise.
I think this current Pakistan team is full of immense talent but still a bit fragile at the moment. Once they slip to 4/5 down then it's inevitable that they will be bowled out for 75 to 100 additional runs at best. This is likely to be the scenario tomorrow.
Ahmed Jennings is a great name.Before Keaton was given full English credentials he had to change his first name that was locally acceptable in Lancashire.
That was getting really tight but we got there in the end. Any series win on the subcontinent by a visiting team is huge.These two Test matches have done more for Test cricket than last few one sided Ashes series. Both teams have been great. When was the last time a team scoring the the highest innings total specially in the 4th lost the match? When was the last time two team scored around 600 in their first innings and we still had a result? It's amazing what can be done by not accepting earth is flat!
Well done England and Pakistan pushed us right until the end.
Robinson’s fitness has come on leaps and bounds so you’d hope he’d be alright. He’s an unbelievable bowler.
Really good series win that. First Test on a road where we forced the game and this one when scoring probably 100 below par on first inning.
We are bound to lose a few Tests playing this way but it is fun to watch. When you consider Bairstow is missing and a case can be made for Buttler to keep [I'm not making it, just that it can be made!] we are an exciting side.
I still think we are a quality spinner away from being a very good side and challenging the Aussies on their own patch.
Shakeel out just before lunch, we should go on and win this now, their tail is very weak. A very close decision which went to review and the TV replay umpire seemed to take ages. Joel Wilson kept us hanging!Got away with one there. The ball is clearly kissing grass. Big decision that went England's way but as they say luck favours the brave.
Robinson’s fitness has come on leaps and bounds so you’d hope he’d be alright. He’s an unbelievable bowler.
Shakeel out just before lunch, we should go on and win this now, their tail is very weak. A very close decision which went to review and the TV replay umpire seemed to take ages. Joel Wilson kept us hanging!Got away with one there. The ball is clearly kissing grass. Big decision that went England's way but as they say luck favours the brave.
Can't wait to see Bairstow in the line up. Don't know he will play though with Pope and Brook doing so well. Lovely not to have to rely on the runs scoring of Root. If Pope kept the gloves and pads, we could possibly push Stokes down as far as 7. Wood, Leach, Jimmy and Robinson, great to have options.
Harry Brook looks like he's going to be some player.
Blimey, I forgot about Archer and Stone too! Broad isn't going to get back in at this rate!
Poor captains who keep the quicks on for too long, the sheer strain of bowling at 90mph, or both?
From what I have heard Archer is not going to return to Test cricket, a shame but unsuprising, look at the struggles with fitness that Wood has had over the years, if it wasn't for his buddy Stokes captaining the team he was thinking of retiring from tests, too. We seem to have issues with British fast bowling, if that is down to coaching I don't know, but no other nation has it's quicks break down as much as ours do.
Set to become England's youngest Test player at the age of 18 years 126 days, beating the record of the late Brian Close in 1949.
It’ll be interesting and nice to see Foakes back.Babar's runout showed the benefit of a proper wicketkeeper. Collecting the ball and breaking stumps in one movement. Well done to Foakes.
Oh yes that was painful. Bit like watching your grandad trying to ice skate. Still a very brave man Mr Close.Set to become England's youngest Test player at the age of 18 years 126 days, beating the record of the late Brian Close in 1949.
I’ll go out on a limb and predict that when he wins his final cap, he won’t be older than Close was.
You’ve got to go back many, many years to find a test debutant who had played so few red ball games prior to their debut. I think this is his 4th red ball game.
As usual we are pinning our hopes on a player who we want to be that mystery spinner that we’ve generally lacked. It will be interesting to see if he’s anywhere near the squad for home tests; I hope he does well and is a feature of the side for many years to come but it really wouldn’t surprise me if he slips back into anonymity. A spinner develops their skill set much later than fast bowlers so it will be a long time before we can call him experienced and can rely on him.
Pakistan will be pleased with this session, ten minutes before lunch they are 102-2, we need to keep chipping away.
Another good test match in progress, Harry Brook looks a real talent.
Another good test match in progress, Harry Brook looks a real talent.
Big day tomorrow. Batting fourth might be a challenge on this pitch.
Another good test match in progress, Harry Brook looks a real talent.
Big day tomorrow. Batting fourth might be a challenge on this pitch.
I don't know, 4 quick wickets after tea and there might be enough time to finish it tonight.
Unconventional stuff from Ben Stokes again in trying to finish the game tonight. Ahmed at 3, followed by himself and leaving the usual 3 and 4 as insurance policies should it not finish tonight.
Unconventional stuff from Ben Stokes again in trying to finish the game tonight. Ahmed at 3, followed by himself and leaving the usual 3 and 4 as insurance policies should it not finish tonight.
It's just fantastic, all of it. What they've done in such a short space of time is incredible, the attitude they have bought into is lifting the whole sport with it.
Yes, brilliant to watch. My concern is that as with any tactical innovation in sport, the opposition will work out ways to nullify it or decide to fight fire with fire. This summer's Ashes series played as a bazball showdown could easily go the way of Australia.
Yes, brilliant to watch. My concern is that as with any tactical innovation in sport, the opposition will work out ways to nullify it or decide to fight fire with fire. This summer's Ashes series played as a bazball showdown could easily go the way of Australia.
Yes, brilliant to watch. My concern is that as with any tactical innovation in sport, the opposition will work out ways to nullify it or decide to fight fire with fire. This summer's Ashes series played as a bazball showdown could easily go the way of Australia.
So be it, 10 months ago this team was a fucking embarrassment, having been smashed in the ashes and looked like a team in terminal decline against the West Indies. Since then big series wins over NZ and SA, a big test win against India and now a phenomenal series win (and probably whitewash) away in Pakistan. Whether it works long-term or not we've found an identity afters years of cautious mediocrity and, I suspect, we've changed test match cricket forever (and for the better).
English sport has spent years stymying itself through fear of losing and some fucked-up. self-imposed traditionalism that saw other countries overtaking us with innovation and creativity, I hope the FA and RFU get with the program and give themselves a similar kick up the arse.
I'd be very surprised if he returns in the way that was expected of him. He's not Brett Lee, he's not going to be a regular pace merchant with red & white ball. Clearly, from all the injuries he's had, while still a young man.
That kind of pace is rare, but even rarer is the ability to sustain it. I think decisions must be made about where we want to focus his talents.
I'd be very surprised if he returns in the way that was expected of him. He's not Brett Lee, he's not going to be a regular pace merchant with red & white ball. Clearly, from all the injuries he's had, while still a young man.
That kind of pace is rare, but even rarer is the ability to sustain it. I think decisions must be made about where we want to focus his talents.
I’d prefer it if Archer and Wood were fit and could bowl in tandem in the Ashes next summer. However I imagine that Archer will concentrate on white ball cricket and make a small fortune playing in franchise leagues alongside his England commitments.
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.
Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.
Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.
Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.
Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling. There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins.
Be a shame if this is true. I thought Jofra was badly used by Root at times.
If a player with that pace is bowling more than 4 overs in a spell then the captain doesn't know how to use him, in my opinion.
Not sure about that Paul, particularly if he is opening the bowling. There are going to be timed when premier bowlers are going to have to bowl fairly long spells to try and secure wins.
To come back to this, in a session you should be bowling 30 overs and balanced teams will have at least 5 bowlers (with 1-2 batting all rounders in there) so you're looking at around 6 overs per session each. Having 1 do a little less but be the big impact option is just sensible. For me that bowler should be Archer or Wood (or maybe Stone if both are unfit), someone who can be over 90mph for the entire spell. Stokes will largely have similar short spells but is more suited to stretching things out for a few extra overs if needed so he acts as the balance in our team.
I think a big part of our problem recently is that it's beena while since we've had a genuine quick that we can rely on to be fit, rather we've had loads of 80-85mph guys who are more suited to longer spells so we've forgotten how to use real pace.
The way Stokes uses his bowlers would suit Archer.
Agreed. To me, the thing that characterises the approach Stokes & McCullum have taken so far is intuitive pragmatism. Play every moment on its merits.
Stokes knows what it's like to be a workhorse bowler. Unfortunately, a workhorse pace bowler just does not exist. If we want Archer bowling 95mph, he isn't going to be able to do that over long spells.
Stokes, as a bowler who can generate good pace, knows that. So I trust him to work things out.
I do find cricket captaincy quite intriguing really, especially the tactical side of things.
Going back to bowlers' workloads Paul, I remember Devon Malcolm being ruined as a bowler in the 90s. He was seriously quick, like Archer and Wood now, but had to be used as a stock bowler as England's batting was so crap that they had to pack the side with batsmen to make up for the fact that many of them weren't good enough.
As a member of a five bowler attack, used in short spells as a strike bowler, Malcolm would have made far more of an impact than he did.
Risso, I know it's about impressions unless you have a speed-gun system that everyone is happy with, but I thought that day he bowled some deliveries that were the fastest I've ever seen. He clearly frightened some of the SA batsmen out.
It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.
Risso, I know it's about impressions unless you have a speed-gun system that everyone is happy with, but I thought that day he bowled some deliveries that were the fastest I've ever seen. He clearly frightened some of the SA batsmen out.
It was great to see Allan Donald applaud his efforts at the end.
Going back to bowlers' workloads Paul, I remember Devon Malcolm being ruined as a bowler in the 90s. He was seriously quick, like Archer and Wood now, but had to be used as a stock bowler as England's batting was so crap that they had to pack the side with batsmen to make up for the fact that many of them weren't good enough.
As a member of a five bowler attack, used in short spells as a strike bowler, Malcolm would have made far more of an impact than he did.
If proof was needed that England stand apart from ROW in playing Test cricket the new way evidence from current PAK v NZL test series confirms it. First test played at Karachi ended in a draw after full 5 days with Pakistan fighting a fine rearguard action to save the natch. The second test again at Karachi is underway and after 3 days both teams have scored circa 400 and it's likely that this match will also end in a draw. This is good normal Test cricket, England play a different game.
I know that South Africa cricket is in desperate need of money, but the “Mumbai Indians of Cape Town” is right up there with the “Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim” for daft sports franchise names.
Well, that didn't end too well, did it?
20-3 after 10 overs...England are now 346 off their 50 overs...a great effort after losing those early wickets.
UTV
The Doc
20-3 after 10 overs...England are now 346 off their 50 overs...a great effort after losing those early wickets.
UTV
The Doc
If Buttler scores, and gets any support, we post competitive scores. If Buttler goes cheaply we struggle, I love watching the guy bat but England really need to find a way to reduce their reliance on him in ODIs.
Good to see the Aussies hammered in India, all out for 91 in the second innings to lose by and innings and 132 runs.
Yeah quite funny although I assume the pitch was a shambles.
I don’t think I can recall when a side has declared on day one of a test match. I understand why they have done it and hope it works out!
Day/Night tests are weird. I find it hard to see why you'd want to introduce something which makes the conditions both teams face so very different.
Day/Night tests are weird. I find it hard to see why you'd want to introduce something which makes the conditions both teams face so very different.
I don't think the players are big fans of it either. I suppose the idea is you can get more people tuning in to watch after work, but it's not a true sporting contest if the result hinges on what time of day you have to bat.
Surprised Broad was sent out as a night watchman, he tends to give his wicket away quite cheaply.
Broad isn't a nightwatchman. He's the mystical nighthawk who goes out to play shots at the end of the day, although he did employ some standard time wasting tactics to get them to close of play.
Broad has done half of the job. Part 2 is to survive 6-7 overs in the morning.
The reason he gets the nod over Jimmy though is that we don't want the run rate to drop too heavily. The whole point of how we play now is to apply scoreboard pressure by going at 5-6 an over so we force teams to always be trying to take wickets because if they drop off we just stack runs quickly.
Broad isn't a great batsman anymore (for reasons VfL covered) but this is a guy who has scored 13 50s at international level so he's definitely capable of hanging around for 10-12 overs and scoring at a decent lick when there's not really any pressure on him losing his wicket.
Broad has done half of the job. Part 2 is to survive 6-7 overs in the morning.
The reason he gets the nod over Jimmy though is that we don't want the run rate to drop too heavily. The whole point of how we play now is to apply scoreboard pressure by going at 5-6 an over so we force teams to always be trying to take wickets because if they drop off we just stack runs quickly.
Broad isn't a great batsman anymore (for reasons VfL covered) but this is a guy who has scored 13 50s at international level so he's definitely capable of hanging around for 10-12 overs and scoring at a decent lick when there's not really any pressure on him losing his wicket.
IIRC he was looking almost like a genuine all rounder early on, then caught a whack and seemed to really struggle after that for a long while
Add in the impact it has on the opposition. The ball is doing all sorts under lights - beating (and in Duckett's case - finding) the edge regularly. All of a sudden Broad comes in swinging and they go to bouncers with fielders posted everywhere. The scoreboard keeps on moving and they are reduced to pretty much only one kind of dismissal.Broad isn't a nightwatchman. He's the mystical nighthawk who goes out to play shots at the end of the day, although he did employ some standard time wasting tactics to get them to close of play.
That fits with the “Bazball” approach though. What this team will achieve will be interesting to see, they are certainly rewriting the test match handbook.
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.Poor international Test match opener. Even by his own, extraordinarily low standards, that was a legendary 2 innings😳
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.Poor international Test match opener. Even by his own, extraordinarily low standards, that was a legendary 2 innings😳
When Stuart Broad is in “the zone” he really is one of the best in the world.
When Stuart Broad is in “the zone” he really is one of the best in the world.
And until the Stokes era, most of the time the tail were tasked with trying to save games after the top order were dismissed cheaply in almost every single test match. A completely different task to trying to add runs on to make a good total a great one, or acting as the foil for somebody trying to get his hundred or whatever.
Not sure how Crawley keeps his place, is it the Kent connection? Averaging 28 is not really good enough for an opener.
Bloody hell I didn’t know the detail of the Scott Kuggeleijn until now - in my opinion pretty disgraceful that he’s playing for NZ.
Brilliant from Brook and Root. 237/3 at tea. Brrok is in one day mode again, his 4th century in 5 innings.
He looks like a bit of a phenom to be honest. He plays scoring shots so effortlessly and in the main without risk.
Nice for Joe to break his slightly barren run in terms of 100s.
It's a bit of a perfect storm, he's a very good batsman but more importantly he plays in a way that's perfectly suited to how this England team play and came into the team at exactly the right time which meant we were playing to strengths rather than trying to force him into a different game plan.
He reminds me of Pietersen in that he plays shots that should be risky (and are for other players) but makes them look perfectly safe.
Bloody hell, this England team just keep confounding expectations. From 21/3 to over 300 with no more wickets. 18 months ago that would have been 92 all out.
Bloody hell, this England team just keep confounding expectations. From 21/3 to over 300 with no more wickets. 18 months ago that would have been 92 all out.
I checked the score this morning having not followed any of the play and thought we must have played a bit cautious to 'only' have 315-3.
Then I saw that it had rained, lol.
Hopefully he's nothing like the bellend Pietersen is.
Watch Anderson get injured now and miss the Ashes.😂
I am unforgiving when superstitious errors lead to humiliation by Aussies.
Follow on endorsed with 226 lead is quote unique in modern cricket so once again it’s brave cricket from England.
Follow on endorsed with 226 lead is quote unique in modern cricket so once again it’s brave cricket from England.
Not coming from hindsight and been proven wrong by Stokes and McCullum many times already, but did find the decision a bit questionable to be honest.
I think it is more the overall situation to be honest. 1-0 up in a 2 game series and a chance to bat the opposition out of the game. Top three hadn’t fired in the first innings, so would have given them a chance to get some time at the middle. Also, given how quickly we score, you would have thought that they would have amassed a big enough score to give them plenty of time to bowl NZ out in the fourth innings.
As good as they are, Anderson and Broad are obviously no spring chickens so it is a tough ask to ask them bowl back to back as well.
Follow on was correct decision as Basin Reserve turns into Rawalpindi mat pitch after the first two days. So batting on to get a lead of 500 would have removed the immediate pressure on NZ and ensured an almost certain draw.
You are right in terms of purely results. I will be annoyed if in the summer England were one up and in the 5th Ashes test Stokes makes a similar decision.Follow on was correct decision as Basin Reserve turns into Rawalpindi mat pitch after the first two days. So batting on to get a lead of 500 would have removed the immediate pressure on NZ and ensured an almost certain draw.
Which considering we are 1-0 up in a 2 match series, would have been fine. I know they are going to try and win every game they play in and that is commendable and the results have been pretty remarkable so far, but I can see it biting them at times.
The way he's protecting his left knee I can't see him playing 6 tests in 8 weeks.You are right in terms of purely results. I will be annoyed if in the summer England were one up and in the 5th Ashes test Stokes makes a similar decision.Follow on was correct decision as Basin Reserve turns into Rawalpindi mat pitch after the first two days. So batting on to get a lead of 500 would have removed the immediate pressure on NZ and ensured an almost certain draw.
Which considering we are 1-0 up in a 2 match series, would have been fine. I know they are going to try and win every game they play in and that is commendable and the results have been pretty remarkable so far, but I can see it biting them at times.
It’s been a great inning's by Williamson so far and he’s taking the game away from England.
Great Test match and either team could win on final day. England should win, but NZ definitely have hope.
The way he's protecting his left knee I can't see him playing 6 tests in 8 weeks.Stokes being unfit for Ashes terrifies me. He must now rest till end of May.
Mental, totally mental. This English team is the best thing to happen to Test cricket in years.
Seconded. They are doing exactly the stuff I always thought teams should do in a Test match.Mental, totally mental. This English team is the best thing to happen to Test cricket in years.
Absolutely agreed, Monty.
A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.
Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Sorry, don't get that at all. We were in control and had a very good chance of winning in the position we were in. NZ would have had to go for any total batting last as they were 1-0 down in the series. So basically we have squandered a match and series winning position.
That said, the Kiwis deserve massive credit for their 2nd innings batting performance, as I'm sure we had banked on rolling them out for a lot less.
Surely sport is about winning things and being successful? Unless you are Blues or Newcastle of course and you measure success by how many people you take to Bruges / Trafalgar Square.
A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.
Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
A test match that will be talked about for many years, for many reasons. Surely that is a better outcome for test cricket than a boring draw and 1-0 series win for England.Test match cricket was on it's way to extinction not totally but mostly based on far too many draws or two and half day results. Draws was dur to over catious approach, captains totally focussed on avoiding defeat first. This England approach is brilliant.
So, yes risking a loss in order to have a chance of winning is always better. This is sport.
Sorry Tom but whilst I get your point about us being control and going to to lose I still think both of these posts are correct. For the long term health of the format this match is huge and if the 'cost' is us drawing a 2 match series (the bigger problem is the lack of a 3 match to decide a winner) then it's one well worth paying for the long-term health of the game. This game could easily be the turning point for a format that has been on its knees for years.
I want tests that can go either way with spells of brilliance being decisive and if that means being braver (or reckless is you prefer) with key decisions then so be it. The games that people remember are ones like this or that Ashes game with a similar outcome, If we'd not enforced the follow on and set them a ~450 target the last day or so would've been all about defensive attrition and them holding on for a draw, by going this way we removed that option and it made for a genuine classic. Yes it might have made us more likely to win but it would've been a much duller experience.
I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.
As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.
I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.
As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.
This time last year we were getting hammered by what was effectively the WI B team whilst scoring about 2 an over, don't lose sleep over losing a game by 1 runYes miserable cautious cricket and I had the painful pleasure of being there for all 3. 15 days of mind numbing boredom. Good job those islands have one or two other things to keep you sane.
I disagree, Tom, if Root hadn’t run run Brook out we would probably have won the game so enforcing the follow on wasn’t the issue.
As others have said England have given test cricket a massive boost, if the rest of cricket follows suit we will be in for an exciting few years of Test Match cricket.
Yep, that run out is what turned the game for me. Losing brook without him facing a ball when he's the form middle order batsmen in the world was a massive blow. 15-20 runs of that pair in the middle and England win the game comfortably, that's why I can't get too annoyed at us losing this one. We should've won, we all know that, but I just can't get too annoyed at losing a match that ended like that because Whilst I'm absolutely an England fan I'm also a Test cricket fan and the sport needs matches like this one.
This. And I can assure you being there for these two tests has been infinitely more enjoyable despite the result yesterday. This winter I've seen us win the T20 series in Pakistan and the World T20 in Oz followed by this so a pretty good return. A few days in Marlborough Sounds and then to get back to help Unai and the push for Europe.This time last year we were getting hammered by what was effectively the WI B team whilst scoring about 2 an over, don't lose sleep over losing a game by 1 runYes miserable cautious cricket and I had the painful pleasure of being there for all 3. 15 days of mind numbing boredom. Good job those islands have one or two other things to keep you sane.
Bangladesh have decent recent home form, not looking an easy chase for England to get 210 runs.
And breathe, very good performance from Malan and brilliantly support by Rashid at the end.
I only watched a little bit but that looked like a horrible sticky wicket so there's no surprise it was a very low scoring match, the ball that got Woakes in particular just seemed to stay in the pitch for an extra fraction of a second.
And breathe, very good performance from Malan and brilliantly support by Rashid at the end.
I only watched a little bit but that looked like a horrible sticky wicket so there's no surprise it was a very low scoring match, the ball that got Woakes in particular just seemed to stay in the pitch for an extra fraction of a second.
Unsurprisingly they didn't even get close, all out for 194 with a little over 5 overs to spare and they never looked like getting within 100 of our total.
Curran is some player, isn't he?
I wouldn’t write him off as a Test player. He absolutely has the tools to play a role in that side, particularly as his batting kicks on. He’s getting more and more skilled as a bowler.
Another collapse from England, cruising at 100-2 and folded again.
South Africa beat the West Indies getting the highest ever successful T20 International run chase, scoring 259 wth 7 balls to spare.
Mark Wood took 5 for 14 in the IPL today, best ever figures by an Englishman in that tournament apparently.
Lucknow Super Giants.Mark Wood took 5 for 14 in the IPL today, best ever figures by an Englishman in that tournament apparently.
Who's he playing for this year?
Maybe I have an old school approach but I really think that you should play your best keeper in every test, but that's not Bazzball is it?
Feel really sorry for Archer.
Feel really sorry for Archer.Yes, and it looks like the end. I hope he has another career option he can turn to now.
Maybe I have an old school approach but I really think that you should play your best keeper in every test, but that's not Bazzball is it?
Really hope Robinson’s ankle scan doesn’t indicate anything serious. He’s arguably our most important bowler this summer.
Pear young seamer Josh Tongue been called up for Ireland test.
Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
He'll lap it up.Good luck to the lad but I hope he doesn't give us a good licking.
Honestly if they are not going to include him in the XI he should be released. At this stage in his career he needs to play cricket rather than be 12th man. 12th man should be up and coming youngster who's just missed out on selection.Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Nor an England shirt is my concern. Hope he doesn't become a permanent 12th man as that's a waste of his season.
Honestly if they are not going to include him in the XI he should be released. At this stage in his career he needs to play cricket rather than be 12th man. 12th man should be up and coming youngster who's just missed out on selection.Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Nor an England shirt is my concern. Hope he doesn't become a permanent 12th man as that's a waste of his season.
Pear young seamer Josh Tongue been called up for Ireland test.
Hope he gives them a good licking.
Honestly if they are not going to include him in the XI he should be released. At this stage in his career he needs to play cricket rather than be 12th man. 12th man should be up and coming youngster who's just missed out on selection.Can the Bears now have Woaksie back now then please
Won’t see Woakes in a Bears shirt again this season
Nor an England shirt is my concern. Hope he doesn't become a permanent 12th man as that's a waste of his season.
I imagine that they’re resting Woakes to preserve his fitness for the Ashes in case Jimmy or Robinson aren’t fit. They also get to see how Tongue gets on in test cricket. He has the ability to be a surprise package against the Aussies, he’s pretty quick.
Michael McNamee I believe
I sympathise they’ve had Test status since 2017 and this is what their 5th or 6th Test? Ridiculous.
The lack of a test quality spinner is the obvious weak link in the team
Leach is out of the Ashes with a stress fracture of the back.
Mooen Ali perhaps back in with a shout now?
I’m not sure he’s a better Test spinner than either, and if Stokes struggles to bowl he’s not going to hold an end.
I’m not sure he’s a better Test spinner than either, and if Stokes struggles to bowl he’s not going to hold an end.
I think that is key to this. They need someone reliable. The young lad, Reman Ahmed, who took the 5-for in Pakistan is a bit raw. Moeen seems to be the better candidate, especially as he's a good fielder, has a cricket brain and can bat well.
Not picking Rehan Ahmed will be a cautious approach inline with previous England policy that has seen only two 18 year olds make their test debuts in the list of 100 youngest test cricketers. (those being this lad and someone called DB Close). This is not Bazball approach. Just pick him and let him have a go, let Aussies worry about him.
I'd not risk Rehan Ahmed and I hope Moeen Ali changes his mind about playing red ball cricket.
Ahmed has played just ten first class matches plus one test match. Taking a 5-fer on a Karachi dust bowl is one thing, bowling against four of the current ICC ranked top 10 batsmen on an English green top in the heat of an Ashes series is quite another. They will look to target him and go about their usual mental disintegration tactics.
We could ruin the career of a good young prospect, come on Moeen your services are needed once again!
Pretty poor really that England have had to go begging Moeen to play.
Given Leach's health/injury problems, needing another spinner was always a possibility.
Moeen will have to play now. It would be a bit off to persuade him back and they just go with Root as the spinner.
Pretty poor really that England have had to go begging Moeen to play.
Given Leach's health/injury problems, needing another spinner was always a possibility.
Moeen will have to play now. It would be a bit off to persuade him back and they just go with Root as the spinner.
We don't have a credible alternative spinner to select and at least Moeen is still playing.
Red ball domestic cricket has been marginalized and pushed to the beginning/end of the season to allow for the Blast and the Hundred. How are we ever going to produce a top class spinner on a freezing cold morning in April or in late September when the pitches are dead?
I wouldn't be surprised if England went with four seamers and used Root as the spinner. Risky but any more risky than hoping Moeen can hold up an end anymore?So what was the point in grovelling to Ali to return? And I am is the opinion that it’s the wrong thing.
Head played very well, but Smith looks ominous.
Based on history 4 seamers does not work. Also it’s very dry at the moment.
Based on history 4 seamers does not work. Also it’s very dry at the moment.
Early whispers are that it could be pretty flat at Edgbaston, so Mark Wood could come in for either Broad or Robinson.
Boland has had an incredible start to international cricket, but if he plays I think we should target him. I haven’t seen anyone try to put him under pressure yet. That could be because it’s too hard to do, but I do wonder.
The WC final result was no different from every other early summer Test match India have played in England. They just don’t know how to deal with the conditions. Australia will find that it’s an entirely different ball game on Friday.
Hmmm not sure about not picking Wood for Edgbaston. We better hope it moves a bit.
Hmmm not sure about not picking Wood for Edgbaston. We better hope it moves a bit.
Yup, me too. I hope we aren't getting too sentimental about Jimmy. Brilliant though he is.
3-2 England
Starting well is crucial. In such a compressed series coming back from behind is going to be very tricky.
Australia look very strong, but it would be interesting to see what happens if they’re put under pressure.
Starting well is crucial. In such a compressed series coming back from behind is going to be very tricky.
Australia look very strong, but it would be interesting to see what happens if they’re put under pressure.
Agreed, we need to start well and win this one I think.
Nasser and Athers gushing about Edgbaston.
Nasser and Athers gushing about Edgbaston.
The camera shot they showed from up high looking out towards Cannon Hill Park made it look as though they were in the middle of the countryside rather than on the edge of Balsall Heath.
How's yer luck you jammy bastards?
What do we think is a decent score here? The pitch looks ok by the ball is keeping low at times which makes cross bat shots dangerous.375 or so?
I think 350 is competitive and 400+ would be a big advantage.
You’ve got to love this approach from England, the positive approach means games are mostly played on our terms.
I'd rather have spent the last half an hour adding another 20-30 on our total and not allowing them to chip 15 off our lead.
Bold move, but with the pitch and weather as they are, I'm not sure nicking a couple of wickets ever looked that likely.
I'd rather have spent the last half an hour adding another 20-30 on our total and not allowing them to chip 15 off our lead.
Bold move, but with the pitch and weather as they are, I'm not sure nicking a couple of wickets ever looked that likely.
I suspect he was hoping the shock factor might unsettle them, guess it was worth a go.
All the talk about Smith and Labuschagne batting until Sunday afternoon... Both gone before lunch!
Nice one. Stokesy pins Smith right in the centre.
I'd rather have spent the last half an hour adding another 20-30 on our total and not allowing them to chip 15 off our lead.
Bold move, but with the pitch and weather as they are, I'm not sure nicking a couple of wickets ever looked that likely.
I suspect he was hoping the shock factor might unsettle them, guess it was worth a go.
Yeah, just seemed a little unnecessary on day one. Great day of cricket, though. Hopefully we'll bowl well tomorrow and really put some pressure on.
Got to be honest, it might be the pitch but Anderson and Robinson have been well below par today. Add in the missed chances and it’s been a pretty sloppy day. Going to need a massive morning to avoid getting significantly behind in the game.
WICKATIOOOOOOOO
Got to be honest, it might be the pitch but Anderson and Robinson have been well below par today. Add in the missed chances and it’s been a pretty sloppy day. Going to need a massive morning to avoid getting significantly behind in the game.
Not sure If they will run away with it but that remains to be seen. Love our agressive approach with a 5+per over run rate. We declared on 8 wickets down and to me that was throwing down the gaunlet to them. I would not want to talk Stokes out of what is doing.
Root was really in his stride when we declared. We could conceivably have got to 450 by close of play.Yes the declaration was incomprehensible. It was probably appropriate if there was a time issue for example the first days play was totally lost due to rain etc. As it was why do it? Unnecessary bravado. It also denied the demoralising effect of a wagging tail undoing the good work of the fielding team by adding 70 to 100 runs.
Even if Aus had still finished today 311-5 we'd be saying "well, we have a 140 lead, couple of wickets and we're into the tail".
Root was really in his stride when we declared. We could conceivably have got to 450 by close of play.Yes the declaration was incomprehensible. It was probably appropriate if there was a time issue for example the first days play was totally lost due to rain etc. As it was why do it? Unnecessary bravado. It also denied the demoralising effect of a wagging tail undoing the good work of the fielding team by adding 70 to 100 runs.
Even if Aus had still finished today 311-5 we'd be saying "well, we have a 140 lead, couple of wickets and we're into the tail".
I think that in the context of the whole series we have sent a very definite message to the Aussies that they are in for a fight. I applaud the decision.Sorry but a better message is to not take the foot off their neck. Root was slaughtering them at about 5.30 on Friday with very good support from Broad and Robinson. A childish school playground decision was made, akin to my dad's bigger than yours.
I think that in the context of the whole series we have sent a very definite message to the Aussies that they are in for a fight. I applaud the decision.Sorry but a better message is to not take the foot off their neck. Root was slaughtering them at about 5.30 on Friday with very good support from Broad and Robinson. A childish school playground decision was made, akin to my dad's bigger than yours.
Anyway off to Edgbaston again today to see if they can recover from the mess served up so far by Stokes and Bairstow. .
Bairstow having an absolute 'mare.
Knew that would do it!:D
Might be viewing it through England tinted spectacles, but I’m not sure Green caught that. Crawley gone now as well.
Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Cheers. Yeah happy with the choice Bills was okay on Friday as a plan B after seeing the queue for GCK but Browns looked better as we walked to the ground.Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Good choice with Browns, particularly if the weather is good and you can sit outside.
I’m there tomorrow and it’s set up for a fascinating days cricket
Cheers. Yeah happy with the choice Bills was okay on Friday as a plan B after seeing the queue for GCK but Browns looked better as we walked to the ground.Train arriving in Brum for 8.44 and breakfast in Browns by St Martins before a stroll to the ground. Using gate E10 as it seems to be a better kept secret. Hope you have a good day.Good. Especially so as I'm there tomorrow. Pivotal day coming up. Come on England bat like you ca. and 300 lead will win the game.
I am volunteering there mate please get their as early as you can.....
Good choice with Browns, particularly if the weather is good and you can sit outside.
I’m there tomorrow and it’s set up for a fascinating days cricket
Was in Wellington for the one run defeat so wouldn't rule out another nipper. Currently clearing plans for Tuesday just in case.
Let’s hope not I think we need at least 275.Nothing surprises me anymore but I think 250 loses and 300 wins. Your 275 could be on the money
Crawley and Duckett both got out in almost identical ways in both innings which might not bode well. Duckett had a half-hearted jab at wide balls outside off whereas Crawley nicked off to balls that just fractionally left him.
Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain both pointed out that it is the ball shaping away that Crawley really struggles with.
Weather looks good today and shite tomorrow, expect to see fireworks this morning and us sticking them into bat in an effort to get a result
Weather looks good today and shite tomorrow, expect to see fireworks this morning and us sticking them into bat in an effort to get a result
If another wicket goes (especially if it's Root), I'd hope for a more pragmatic approach of resigning things in, waiting for the rain and it's "on to Cincinnati"
Have you ever seen a first over of the day like this?
A brilliant first hours cricket this morning, Brook looks in good touch as well.
how many stumpings is that from Lyon's bowling ? and why do we keep coming down the pitch when we have played him well from back in the crease ?
UTV
The Doc
Pheeeew...5 down would have been bad before lunch.
It was missing anyway I think.
how many stumpings is that from Lyon's bowling ? and why do we keep coming down the pitch when we have played him well from back in the crease ?
UTV
The Doc
Damnit, great catch to be fair.
It'll be interesting to see how Bairstow bats now. Stokes has come in and been a lot more defensive than we've seen, is he playing the Root role of anchoring the innings so they can flash at the other end or will we reign it in a little?
Damnit, great catch to be fair.
It'll be interesting to see how Bairstow bats now. Stokes has come in and been a lot more defensive than we've seen, is he playing the Root role of anchoring the innings so they can flash at the other end or will we reign it in a little?
Somebody needs to stick around. 120 on this would leave us in the 270s, and I doubt that will be enough.
This match is going to be a classic nail biter. Anything under 250 and Aussies get them easily, 300 plus and it's England's.
There’s still pretty much a day and a half left. Nowhere near enough runs at the minute.
There’s still pretty much a day and a half left. Nowhere near enough runs at the minute.
Forecast isn't great tomorrow though. Right now play before lunch looks unlikely. Haven't got a clue what will happen in truth but we're in a tight spot right now.
There’s still pretty much a day and a half left. Nowhere near enough runs at the minute.
Forecast isn't great tomorrow though. Right now play before lunch looks unlikely. Haven't got a clue what will happen in truth but we're in a tight spot right now.
(https://i.ibb.co/1XRFxcL/weather.png) (https://ibb.co/1XRFxcL)
As much of a fan of the approach that I am, I've got to say this has been a very poor batting display from us in this innings.
With the weather forecast tomorrow is it worth thinking about the declaration?
With the weather forecast tomorrow is it worth thinking about the declaration?
Only 2 successful runs chases over 250 at Edgbaston.
With the weather forecast tomorrow is it worth thinking about the declaration?
I wouldn't mind it, let's make it interesting.
Only 2 successful runs chases over 250 at Edgbaston.
True, but looking at that statistic, a lot of the chases below that were achieved losing only 1 or 2 wickets, suggesting they would have easily chased 250+ if they had needed to
281 I’d have taken that last night and going into the last 2 wickets.
There is absolutely nothing in this pitch for our seamers. I know Stokes asked for roads to be prepared but for the remainder of the series that plan has to be scrapped. We are negating our bowling attack.
There is absolutely nothing in this pitch for our seamers. I know Stokes asked for roads to be prepared but for the remainder of the series that plan has to be scrapped. We are negating our bowling attack.
Yep not much point if the batsmen don't stick around on them.
Bairstow - is he too, ahem, "big boned" to be an elite wicket keeper?
There is absolutely nothing in this pitch for our seamers. I know Stokes asked for roads to be prepared but for the remainder of the series that plan has to be scrapped. We are negating our bowling attack.
Yep not much point if the batsmen don't stick around on them.
Bairstow - is he too, ahem, "big boned" to be an elite wicket keeper?
I do find myself staring at his tits.
Every time I stop watching we take a wicket, so I'm done. You can thank me later
Well Broad has given us a chance. Australia’s to lose but if there’s cloud around it might be interesting.
Well Broad has given us a chance. Australia’s to lose but if there’s cloud around it might be interesting.
Not sure Paul, think it's very much in the balance. Two quick wickets tomorrow and suddenly 281 starts to look a long way off at 120-5.
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
I agree with Paul. Think it's within sight for Australia, unless we bowl very well.
It'll be interesting if we lose by 1 or 2 wickets. Sorry to bring it back up, and I know it's not quantifiable, but if Aus get there 8- or 9- wickets down, the only real difference will have been the performative declaration.
Hope we smash them and win by 100 runs, and I love that we play aggressively, but if we lose this test, it'll have been a gift to them.
If we win, I'll be the first one here cheering that I was dead wrong. C'mon England!
I’m about 5 miles from Edgbaston, it’s hammering down and has been for a while. Forecast to stop at lunchtime so should be time to get it dried out to enable a result but imagine overcast conditions will suit our bowlers.
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
It's been absolutely shitting it down all morning, looks like the Midlands as a whole has taken a right soaking.
I am of the same opinion. Rain will stop around 11 and normally it takes about an hour to sort out the stuff however England are going to insist on ground conditions being as dry as possible, so the head groundsman is going to ask for or tell umpires about 90 minutes. This being the case you are looking at two full session. Australians can but will not go for a win, so it's England's or a draw.I’m about 5 miles from Edgbaston, it’s hammering down and has been for a while. Forecast to stop at lunchtime so should be time to get it dried out to enable a result but imagine overcast conditions will suit our bowlers.
I agree Chris, coupled with a fifth day pitch it's in our favour now.
I am of the same opinion. Rain will stop around 11 and normally it takes about an hour to sort out the stuff however England are going to insist on ground conditions being as dry as possible, so the head groundsman is going to ask for or tell umpires about 90 minutes. This being the case you are looking at two full session. Australians can but will not go for a win, so it's England's or a draw.I’m about 5 miles from Edgbaston, it’s hammering down and has been for a while. Forecast to stop at lunchtime so should be time to get it dried out to enable a result but imagine overcast conditions will suit our bowlers.
I agree Chris, coupled with a fifth day pitch it's in our favour now.
Lunch will be at 12.30. Likely start at 1.10 post lunch.
Lunch will be at 12.30. Likely start at 1.10 post lunch.
Roughly how many overs will that allow?
Lunch will be at 12.30. Likely start at 1.10 post lunch.
Roughly how many overs will that allow?
If we've lost a session then around 60? More if the weather is fair and a result is on, and certainly enough to get a result either way
Light should be ok given it's midsummer tomorrow
Still pissing down here.
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
So did Sky. Boiled gammon incoming.
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
So did Sky. Boiled gammon incoming.
Can't say it bothers me too much, but I just find it strange when it's used when all the players in the game are men. If tgere were mixed teans or it was a women's game then there would be an obvious need.
Make them favourites, but there isn't much in it.
And I still hate Night Watchmen. Most pointless thing in cricket.
The BBC were using the term ‘nightwatcher’ yesterday.
So did Sky. Boiled gammon incoming.
Can't say it bothers me too much, but I just find it strange when it's used when all the players in the game are men. If tgere were mixed teans or it was a women's game then there would be an obvious need.
The simple need is that a lot of commentators/broadcasters/journalists/etc are the same for mens and womens games so having standard terminology so they're always using the correct phrases is just common sense. There's really very little more to it than that.
On the specific example the biggest problem is that nightwatcher is just shit, just change it to nightwatch/nightswatch (I don't care which you choose) and it works better in every way.
Khawaja you talented, boring bastard.It's classic batting v Bazball. So far he has lorded it, but bloody hell he's shit to watch.
Very quiet and subdued Edgbaston. Whilst there are notionally 38 overs available after tea it is likely that only 30 will be bowled. last hour starts at 6 when maximum 15 overs must be bowled. The previous 70 minutes England will bowl no more than 15. I don't think 30 overs is enough to get 5 wickets however if wickets do not fall Aussies win it in the last 10.
With the new ball to come we've got to be favourites here.
One over to many by Root, new ball please.
TAKE NEW EFFING BALL CHAPS
New ball taken. I'll be interested to learn why they waited.
Yeah, no idea why Root was allowed to bowl again. Still, we'll see. A wicket in the next over, or England's done.New ball taken. I'll be interested to learn why they waited.
The extra over from Root made sense and I can understand why Stokes took another himself but the next Root over was a mistake and ate far too much into the lead.
The shot from Lyon for 4 is why they were nervy though.
Time to switch off. There is no way I can bear Aussies celebrating a Test win at Edgbaston.I'm giving it one more over.
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.I think it's today that's cost us.
That declaration has cost us.
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
Yes, and that.They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
But why do it in the first place? It was a comfortable pairing. Ifs and buts I suppose.Chutzpah? Hubris? That first innings really did get in the Aussies' heads, so it didn't seem so bad.
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
Exactly
Is Anderson carrying an injury?
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
They’re bloody going to win aren’t they.
That declaration has cost us.
It hasn't, dropped catches and missed stumpings have cost us, if we do lose this.
Exactly
To be fair, we lost by two wickets, having ceded two wickets. It wasn't the only factor but it's pretty stark.
Overall, great test, but a huge missed opportunity, and a massive bonus for Australia.
What other options do England have for out and out spinners, with Leach out?
Got over the test loss by booking tickets for all the matches in the Caribbean in December which went on sale tonight.So you going for the one dayers, a total heathen😂 I am only jealous. Where are the matches?
The crowd were brilliant.Is that correct?
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
Unfortunately we have lost a test match where ICC 1,2 and 3 failed to make an impact. This will change, they will turn up and we will regret it. It’s not going to be pretty.Yep, non of them got away this test.
Not sure I agree with all the hype saying what a great Test match. It was decent but never really swung either way. And didn't get the sense of pure rivalry you normally have in the Ashes. Even the bouncers were a bit tame. But Sky love to hype it up. Stokes screwed up and didn't seem bothered about losing because it was a good match. Strange times.
Not sure I agree with all the hype saying what a great Test match. It was decent but never really swung either way. And didn't get the sense of pure rivalry you normally have in the Ashes. Even the bouncers were a bit tame. But Sky love to hype it up. Stokes screwed up and didn't seem bothered about losing because it was a good match. Strange times.
A match decided by two wickets, with all four results possible going into the final day and both teams able to win it in the final session. I'm not sure how you categorise a great Test match but this was certainly up there for me.
I suppose if you laud them for the style of play when they are winning, you shouldn't pile in on them when they lose playing that way. I did think they were a bit reckless in New Zealand and it cost them a series win and again I thought they were reckless at times in this game and it has cost them really. It's all good and well prioritising style of play, but this is the Ashes and results mean everything.
I think it was important that we got off with a win as it Lord's next and we haven't got a great record there. Think it will be very hard to come back from 2-0 down to even get a draw.
A great test match has several big swings and twists either way. It was decent but the media are as usual OTT. The close ending was more frustrating than exciting.Not sure I agree with all the hype saying what a great Test match. It was decent but never really swung either way. And didn't get the sense of pure rivalry you normally have in the Ashes. Even the bouncers were a bit tame. But Sky love to hype it up. Stokes screwed up and didn't seem bothered about losing because it was a good match. Strange times.
A match decided by two wickets, with all four results possible going into the final day and both teams able to win it in the final session. I'm not sure how you categorise a great Test match but this was certainly up there for me.
Today is a truly horrible day.Gutted Ozvilla. I did not want them to win like they did and no way at Edgbaston. Stokes has had high praise in the past but he threw this match away.
We need a spinner. Lyons bowling was the difference in the two teams overall imho.
We cannot have a frontline spinner out with a dodgy finger on day 3 when he is needed for day 5. I’m afraid we needed to look around the county 4 day circuit, not call Mo out of retirement.
It's not just that, Lyon bowling long spells from one end means the seamers can rotate from the other one.
I accept that we might not be able to produce a Warne or Murali, but surely to goodness we can produce another Ashley Giles who can just tie up an end and keep things tight while the seamers attack from the other one.
I suppose if you laud them for the style of play when they are winning, you shouldn't pile in on them when they lose playing that way. I did think they were a bit reckless in New Zealand and it cost them a series win and again I thought they were reckless at times in this game and it has cost them really. It's all good and well prioritising style of play, but this is the Ashes and results mean everything.
I think it was important that we got off with a win as it Lord's next and we haven't got a great record there. Think it will be very hard to come back from 2-0 down to even get a draw.
Agree 100%. I think our aggressive approach is great, but play the situation.
Unless you're on 500+, you don't declare in the first innings of a series. Aggressive vs reckless. Okay, we made a statement... then dropped a shitload of catches, and lost.
The question is, would the Aussies have allowed us to win that test at the Gabba? Would they fuck.
We can get back in this series, but Lord's will be tough. Mo did well and bowled his fingers to the bone. Our worst seamer was Jimmy, but you don't drop Jimmy for Lord's.
I can't see us making changes. He gets in the side on his batting, but the only real question is whether Bairstow is light enough to 'keep. No shame in asking that, because he's returning from a serious injury.
Putting on entertainment is great, but we need to make sure we act when we smell blood, because the Aussies were bleeding throughout, and we let them rack up a win - from nothing.
Thing is, this was inevitable at some point playing ‘Bazball’. The truth is they were always going to take some risks and end up losing a close one. One you could look back on and ask questions.
Just wished it wasn’t yesterday against them.
Thing is, this was inevitable at some point playing ‘Bazball’. The truth is they were always going to take some risks and end up losing a close one. One you could look back on and ask questions.
Just wished it wasn’t yesterday against them.
The thing with Bazball is, it needs to get a bit more 'football'. Mix in a bit of intelligence when required. England could and should have won the first test. I'm very much for the new way of playing, but at times they just need to think about things a bit more carefully.
The handwringing from some of the Aussies about Robinson’s send off of Khawaja is laughable.
I like Gillespie. Very knowledgeable and an awesome voice.
The handwringing from some of the Aussies about Robinson’s send off of Khawaja is laughable.
Short memories in that part of the world it seems, as they seem to have forgotten the antics of Merv Hughes, Glenn McGrath et al.
While we're on the subject of Australians, listening to the TMS coverage, that Jim Maxwell is one annoying bell end. Mark Taylor on the other hand, is a welcome addition to the commentary boxes.
The handwringing from some of the Aussies about Robinson’s send off of Khawaja is laughable.
Short memories in that part of the world it seems, as they seem to have forgotten the antics of Merv Hughes, Glenn McGrath et al.
While we're on the subject of Australians, listening to the TMS coverage, that Jim Maxwell is one annoying bell end. Mark Taylor on the other hand, is a welcome addition to the commentary boxes.
I cannot fecking stand Jim Maxwell. He also has the habit of when things are going well for them he's all sweetness and light but gets that Aussie mood on when things don't, he's such a annoying twat.
Not a patch on other less celebrated cricket commentators from these parts.
Good fight-back by England here, just as it seemed Aus were going to put up a big first innings score.
Is there any rule against the men's team calling up Ecclestone. She might be the best spin option in the country at the moment
I like Gillespie. Very knowledgeable and an awesome voice.
Good fight-back by England here, just as it seemed Aus were going to put up a big first innings score.
Is there any rule against the men's team calling up Ecclestone. She might be the best spin option in the country at the moment
What struck me yesterday is how far back the umpires are standing from the stumps. How can they possibly see a no ball?
Good fight-back by England here, just as it seemed Aus were going to put up a big first innings score.
Is there any rule against the men's team calling up Ecclestone. She might be the best spin option in the country at the moment
What struck me yesterday is how far back the umpires are standing from the stumps. How can they possibly see a no ball?
They don’t have to. That’s the 3rd umpire’s job
https://www.skysports.com/share/12908539
I support the aggressive approach but this is a right load of bollocks. Between these and the comments he made about “average punters” Crawley should probably stop with the sound bites.
It’s more the “brand” not being about winning. The aggressive style is a vehicle to win more and be more entertaining, but the winning bit is important too.
Great I double century by Tammy.
However, with the Aussie lead over 90 and two days left, they’re still favourites.
I suppose this is the best place for it but the latest report pulled no punches and finally said out loud what's been obvious for decades
Back to test cricket, Josh Tongue has replaced Moeen Ali in the only change to the test team.
He's quick and relatively unknown so the Aussies won't know too much about him.
Hopefully the call would have gone to the groundstaff at Lords to leave as much live grass on the pitch as possible. That's the only justification for an all seam attack
Hopefully the call would have gone to the groundstaff at Lords to leave as much live grass on the pitch as possible. That's the only justification for an all seam attack
Apparently Moeen was fit to play as well. It might work out, but it’s a big risk. Like I said our history with all seam attacks isn’t great.
Hopefully the call would have gone to the groundstaff at Lords to leave as much live grass on the pitch as possible. That's the only justification for an all seam attack
Apparently Moeen was fit to play as well. It might work out, but it’s a big risk. Like I said our history with all seam attacks isn’t great.
Our history against Australia at Lord's is even worse. Not remotely confident for this.
That puts Robinson at 8? That is pretty high for him. It’s a mega long tail.
....but does open up the prospect of facing Lyon on a Day 5 pitch
'There's people on the pitch........'
This is looking pretty rough right now.
And Robinson bowling like a parks league player. Maybe should have kept his mouth shut after dismissing Khawaja.
Today has been like time warping back to the 90's, half expecting to see John Embury turn up
Today has been like time warping back to the 90's, half expecting to see John Embury turn up
Was thinking the same. England with no ideas and no intensity, meek, and Australia in full control.
Also Stuart Broad’s comments on the Edgbaston pitch about it being slow are showing him up. Great conditions for seamers today and he’s delivered fuck all.
AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING. The home of cricket? Lord’s? Fuck off. A stuffy, silent symbol of a past age, a place where England never play well.
Today has been like time warping back to the 90's, half expecting to see John Embury turn up
Was thinking the same. England with no ideas and no intensity, meek, and Australia in full control.
Also Stuart Broad’s comments on the Edgbaston pitch about it being slow are showing him up. Great conditions for seamers today and he’s delivered fuck all.
AND ANOTHER FUCKING THING. The home of cricket? Lord’s? Fuck off. A stuffy, silent symbol of a past age, a place where England never play well.
I was getting pissed off at the number of time Lords being 'special' was mentioned before midday
Men vs Boys.
They’ll put 450/500 up and we’ll make 200 if we’re lucky.
Fun though all that was, electing to bowl and your opponents getting to 330-5 is pretty poor.
I think our attack is still undercooked, Jimmy in particular is a rhythm bowler who needs overs in his legs which his injury robbed him of. Broad thrives when the crowd is boisterous which you will not get at Lords and Robinson is a trundler who bowls the occasional Jaffa. Tongue bowled some lovely stuff and Stokes is a perpetual worry.Agree with all of this, and the risk is well play the "mindset" rather than the conditions/circumstance. Hope Im wrong
The forecast for tomorrow is poor so I suspect the Aussies will make the most of the conditions on Friday and run through us, their attack is good and Lyon will dominate.
I think our attack is still undercooked, Jimmy in particular is a rhythm bowler who needs overs in his legs which his injury robbed him of. Broad thrives when the crowd is boisterous which you will not get at Lords and Robinson is a trundler who bowls the occasional Jaffa. Tongue bowled some lovely stuff and Stokes is a perpetual worry.
The forecast for tomorrow is poor so I suspect the Aussies will make the most of the conditions on Friday and run through us, their attack is good and Lyon will dominate.
I think our attack is still undercooked, Jimmy in particular is a rhythm bowler who needs overs in his legs which his injury robbed him of. Broad thrives when the crowd is boisterous which you will not get at Lords and Robinson is a trundler who bowls the occasional Jaffa. Tongue bowled some lovely stuff and Stokes is a perpetual worry.
The forecast for tomorrow is poor so I suspect the Aussies will make the most of the conditions on Friday and run through us, their attack is good and Lyon will dominate.
Most of that I agree with. But not on Robinson, he’s short of a gallop, but he’s a very skilful bowler. His first class and Test record to date show that.
My problem with Robinson is that no one thinks he's better than he does when the truth is that he's only been capped because Archer, Wood and Stone can't stay fit.
It's not that he's a bad bowler, he's just not as good as he thinks and it means he doesn't always put in the effort he should. On day 2 at Edgbaston he bowled some absolute tripe with long spells where he wasn't conceding many but was absolutely no threat at all. Add on the no balls and the sloppy extras and he's definitely a concern for me, despite having a very good record on paper.
It annoys me to see Robinson with his really long run up only to chuck down 78mph pies
Woakes has a good record bowling at Lord's. He's dug England out of a hole the bat at crucial times. A very competent all rounder.
It would, but they’re scoring fast and could easily get 450+ still.
Crawley's brain fart aside, that was a good session for England. More after tea please England
Innings defeat incoming
Innings defeat incoming
With this and your Whelan/Jedinak posts mate you’ve hit the motherlode of wrong!
Can we stop fucking falling for this short ball trap? Just let their bowlers tire themselves out. There's so much risk playing these shots when the maximum reward is a single. Lyon is injured just see this tactic out.
Can we stop fucking falling for this short ball trap? Just let their bowlers tire themselves out. There's so much risk playing these shots when the maximum reward is a single. Lyon is injured just see this tactic out.
The problem there is that just letting them tire themselves out is a very passive approach to the game and that's just not how we're playing now. It's a difficult balance for me though, we can't let them slow the rate down too much (and by doing so take control of the game) so we do need to keep looking to score, even if it is just singles.
This is the dumbest collective suicide I've ever seen in sport. What in the fuck are they doing.
Why is Brook batting like a desperate T20 player then guffawing like a moron?Because they are mostly T20 players?
Stokes uses his brain. I think he needs to explain what the approach is to his team, because I think some have lost sight of it. We need to be ruthless and aggressive, not stupid and aggressive.I was really disappointed with Root - he should know better, he much better than that - and should have brought to the game what Stokes did.
I think Strauss has just summed things up nicely, this time yesterday you had people genuinely talking about England losing by an innings, today we've won all 3 sessions and people are still upset, we probably have 100 runs more than if we'd been conservative and history has shown us that when we play defensively against Australia it doesn't work. In reality we're probably going to go into the 3rd innings at some point in the 2nd session tomorrow and the game will be in the balance, which is how it should be with 2 good teams.
Strange how quiet the Lords crowd are.
Even by their standards.
Barely a murmur when Starc went.
Excellent from England today. The negativity has been excruciating mind. Yeah some daft shots to hole out, but it's this brand of cricket that has us right back in it.
I find it weird that some people (outside of this forum) are going binary - it’s good or bad from England. It’s not that black and white - overall it’s a good day and we’re back in the game, but that was still an hour of poor judgement that’s enabled Australia still to be in a decent position. Both things can be true.
England are clearly intimidated by Aussies and making poor decisions. Declaration at Edgbaston, persisting with selection of legends in the bowling attack and brainless batting today all points towards a team wanting to prove a point rather than cool heads taking calculated risks. Still in this match but the morning session tomorrow is going make or break this series.
Nah the aggressive brand of cricket is fine, but once everyone is on the boundary you’ve kind of achieved your aim. The Aussies were desperate, we could have continued to be aggressive and done it in a different way. Get lots of ones and twos and then they’ll bring the field in and then start hitting the boundaries.
You can support the aggressive approach, but acknowledge when they’ve got it wrong. It’s not negative, it’s just realistic. I think Stokes’ approach probably shows he knew that.
We need to declare asap before Lyon recovers.
Nah the aggressive brand of cricket is fine, but once everyone is on the boundary you’ve kind of achieved your aim. The Aussies were desperate, we could have continued to be aggressive and done it in a different way. Get lots of ones and twos and then they’ll bring the field in and then start hitting the boundaries.
You can support the aggressive approach, but acknowledge when they’ve got it wrong. It’s not negative, it’s just realistic. I think Stokes’ approach probably shows he knew that.
That's the thing. We had opportunities at Edgbaston, but didn't take them and lost. There was a big chance today with Lyon off the field and their fielders on the boundary to grind their seamers down. Like at Edgbaston though, we gave wickets away and let them off the hook. We've got a long tail in this game so really needed the top order to fire.
Lyon arrived at the ground on crutches this morning, still no official announcement about his participation in this match or the rest of the series.
Yeah it’s a nonsense and also admitting when they get it a bit wrong is fine and not a weakness. Learning, adapting, and improving is a positive thing to do.
Root was out hooking off a no-ball too, and Brook was fortunate to get dropped. The calculation was so clear that it wasn't worth it. It's not the same thing as driving when there are slips - this is hitting the ball in the air right in the area where they have fielders waiting. It was totally brainless.
Australia spinner Nathan Lyon suffered a "significant calf strain" on day two of the second Ashes Test and is a doubt for the rest of the series.
Lyon pulled up when running to field a ball and had to be helped by the physio as he walked back to the dressing room.
The 35-year-old has not returned to the field since and arrived at the ground on crutches before day three.
Cricket Australia said he will "require a period of rehabilitation after this match is concluded".
"A decision regarding his availability for the remainder of the series will be made at the conclusion of the game," they added.
Lyon could bat, if required, later in the game.
Siri, is it 'positive cricket' to go from 200-1 to giving up a first innings deficit of a 100?
FFS, being attacking doesn't have to mean being utterly stupid, does it. We'll be luck to get within 80 of their total at this rate, from a really good position yesterday. Chucking wickets away willy nilly isn't good or clever cricket, it just means we're going to get walloped in every test this series if it continues.This. 1000 times this! I'm all for Bazball, I've watched more of these two matches than I have any cricket for years because of it. But batting positively/aggressively doesn't have to mean swinging at every single ball, chosing shots your average cider-fueled village tail-ender would! A bit of pragmatism after they started bowling short was what was needed.
Only Stokes has been got out here.
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
England currently 52% on the SS Win Predictor. Really?
England currently 52% on the SS Win Predictor. Really?
Win Predictor is best ignored. A gimmick that's not needed
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.I honestly don't think anyone's saying that. It's just that relentlessly going after everything makes the chances of getting out too easily more likely.
I get we were shit before Baz ball - but I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing.
we played perfectly for most of yesterday - Oz started bowling short, so we decided we had to go after it. It failed for us - why keep doing it.
Otherwise, are we just going to say that Bazball works so long as people don't try to combat it?
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
This was always my worry with Bazball. A disciplined, quality attack would be too good for it unless you can adapt a bit. We simply haven’t.
England all out 325. From 188/1 that's pathetic all brought about by that mad hour yesterday afternoon. Unless there's a dramatic turnaround that Ashes gone I feel. Bazball doesn't work against a quality bowling attack like Australia have. All the more annoying having been in commanding positions in both Tests. England have gifted the Ashes to Australia.
This was always my worry with Bazball. A disciplined, quality attack would be too good for it unless you can adapt a bit. We simply haven’t.
I genuinely don’t really think this was “Bazball”, maybe a result of muddled interpretation of it. But I severely doubt Bazball is about getting bombed out in a stupid fashion.
Also this isn’t what England were doing last year, there were ebbs and flows.
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
I just wish I could understand how Stokes is being praised for his 'sensible' 17 but Brook, Duckett, Crawley and Pope are all brainless and have 'given the test away' despite putting the best part of 250 runs on between them.Because with a bit more guile, they could've got more?
Or, as Stokes showed, they could've scored far fewer and then been done by a good delivery. My problem with all of the wailing on this thread right now is the absolute certainty you all seem to have that if we'd just not played hook shots we'd have been looking a big first inning lead and have won the game easily.Yep it’s only Stokes who’s actually been got out.
They really need to reflect. Because this is two games where we’ve just handed the initiative to them.
They could have a blinding bowling innings or the tail could wag, but the percentages are really against it.
How many bonus runs do we get because he was 'got out' instead of giving his wicket away?
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
Honestly no I don't, I think there were a couple of genuinely poor shots in there (Brook and Bairstow) but I can't agree that if we'd just let them bowl short and not tried to score we'd somehow be in a far better situation. That's all I'm getting at really, Brook went for 50 having scored that many by taking on the bowling, yes he went having played an awful shot that he got completely wrong but why can't it just be a poor shot? His attitude is responsible for both a pretty important 50 and a soft dismissal, in much the same way that Stokes attitude was responsible for a disappointing 17 and a well worked dismissal. So why is it that Brook is the one being criticised? As I say I just think people are in Favour of Bazball whilst it works but show they're 'real' opinions on it when it doesn't.
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
Honestly no I don't, I think there were a couple of genuinely poor shots in there (Brook and Bairstow) but I can't agree that if we'd just let them bowl short and not tried to score we'd somehow be in a far better situation. That's all I'm getting at really, Brook went for 50 having scored that many by taking on the bowling, yes he went having played an awful shot that he got completely wrong but why can't it just be a poor shot? His attitude is responsible for both a pretty important 50 and a soft dismissal, in much the same way that Stokes attitude was responsible for a disappointing 17 and a well worked dismissal. So why is it that Brook is the one being criticised? As I say I just think people are in Favour of Bazball whilst it works but show they're 'real' opinions on it when it doesn't.
Paul, do you worry you've dug yourself in a bit here? Even Geoff Lemon on the Graun's OBO, who yesterday was defending the approach in spite of it all, described Brook's dismissal as 'the stupidest bit of cricket I've ever seen'.
Honestly no I don't, I think there were a couple of genuinely poor shots in there (Brook and Bairstow) but I can't agree that if we'd just let them bowl short and not tried to score we'd somehow be in a far better situation. That's all I'm getting at really, Brook went for 50 having scored that many by taking on the bowling, yes he went having played an awful shot that he got completely wrong but why can't it just be a poor shot? His attitude is responsible for both a pretty important 50 and a soft dismissal, in much the same way that Stokes attitude was responsible for a disappointing 17 and a well worked dismissal. So why is it that Brook is the one being criticised? As I say I just think people are in Favour of Bazball whilst it works but show they're 'real' opinions on it when it doesn't.
Well for most England cricket fans, the Ashes is the pinnacle of the sport, and we'd like to win it. The team just need to inject a bit of intelligence into the attacking mindset.
but what does that 'intelligence' look like because by the definition you all seem to have decided on Stokes was intelligent, that's why I made the trite comment about bonus runs. If Pope had connected better with his would his 'brainless' shot have turned into an intelligent 6 to put pressure on the short ball game? If Brook had got through his shot quicker and he'd smashed it through cow corner would it still have been brainless? Why wasn't Stokes being brainless when, by not taking on the short ball, he let them bring in a couple of slips and then got caught by one of them?
It's not "all or nothing" though, Paul! England can generally follow a policy of playing on the front-foot, aggressively going for singles and twos, attacking the bowling etc. but that doesn't mean that they have to follow that policy so slavishly that they completely ignore the opposition adapting to their style of play and changing their attack accordingly.
To take a step back, because otherwise I'm going to end up arguing with a bunch of you all day, my point is that how we now play is all about risk and reward. As a group I believe the decision was made that the reward of showing teams we won't be controlled by short stuff was worth the risk of losing some cheap wickets.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
As I said yesterday I see it as similar to Villa changing tactic and passing the ball around in defence a lot more. We saw it fail and saw lots of the same sort of criticism but in the long run it has proven to be the right thing for us to do.
It's not "all or nothing" though, Paul! England can generally follow a policy of playing on the front-foot, aggressively going for singles and twos, attacking the bowling etc. but that doesn't mean that they have to follow that policy so slavishly that they completely ignore the opposition adapting to their style of play and changing their attack accordingly.
I'm not the one saying it is though, it's not me saying that we've given the game away and that we should've abandoned our style at the first sign of some short deliveries. I agree we didn't handle things as well as we should've but, much like the first test, I think execution rather than attitude was the problem.
To take a step back, because otherwise I'm going to end up arguing with a bunch of you all day, my point is that how we now play is all about risk and reward. As a group I believe the decision was made that the reward of showing teams we won't be controlled by short stuff was worth the risk of losing some cheap wickets.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
As I said yesterday I see it as similar to Villa changing tactic and passing the ball around in defence a lot more. We saw it fail and saw lots of the same sort of criticism but in the long run it has proven to be the right thing for us to do.
I think you may be right on this point, but if that is the case then I dont think its acceptable of an England team to think that throwing away an ashes test match and effectively an ashes series in order to make a point is ok. If the situation were reversed yesterday, would Australia have been so blaise about it?
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
To take a step back, because otherwise I'm going to end up arguing with a bunch of you all day, my point is that how we now play is all about risk and reward. As a group I believe the decision was made that the reward of showing teams we won't be controlled by short stuff was worth the risk of losing some cheap wickets.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff. That's what will happen now anyway but by trying to control it and keep playing our game we gave ourselves a chance of making teams be more cautious about it. For that reason I don't think it was a mistake, even if it might cost us this match. That said if we do the same every time we play short stuff and we see the same outcome regularly then it will be fair to offer the sort of criticism you've made today.
As I said yesterday I see it as similar to Villa changing tactic and passing the ball around in defence a lot more. We saw it fail and saw lots of the same sort of criticism but in the long run it has proven to be the right thing for us to do.
I think you may be right on this point, but if that is the case then I dont think its acceptable of an England team to think that throwing away an ashes test match and effectively an ashes series in order to make a point is ok. If the situation were reversed yesterday, would Australia have been so blaise about it?
but again with the bold bit you're making the assumption that if we'd just ducked for a few overs we'd still be batting and looking at a first innings lead and I don't think there's any reason to assume that. I keep going back to the Stokes wicket but, given the conditions this morning, that was about as standard a Lords wicket as we'll see all match. If we'd gone in last night at 230 but with 1-2 more wickets in hand I just don't think anyone can be so sure that we'd have ended up with a significantly better score than we got. That's why I just think it's over-simplifying things to just claim that we'd have been fine if we'd just been passive for the last hour yesterday.
Again there is a whole lot between “passive” and slogging it directly into a telegraphed plan.
Good news is we’re continuing to miss our chances as well.
Again there is a whole lot between “passive” and slogging it directly into a telegraphed plan.
and that only really applies to Root and Duckett. Pope just didn't strike the ball cleanly and Brook spliced it.
Either way I'm much more worried by what we're doing with the ball/in the field, we're in very good bowling conditions again right now and we're not really doing anything with them. Tongue looks a threat and Broad has been ok, Robinson and Jimmy have bowled poorly again.
And with Stokes seemingly unable to bowl more than a handful of overs, and generally being tonked when he does, we're really weak in the bowling department. Is this a series too far with Anderson? He's had what used to be good conditions for him in a few sessions now, but just isn't getting anything going.
Just not fancied, which for this test is a mistake, especially given how Robinson is 3-4mph down and offering very little threat right now and Anderson is looking totally out of rhythm.
....I do worry when I start to think the same things as Risso .... ;)
The team in general looks completely undercooked/unprepared.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
Unfortunately, I think that we might be getting near the end of Sir JimmyCouple of seasons too late IMO.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
Looking at the two sides, my preference would be the one effectively 166-1 with a 1-0 lead in the series.
It's the first time bazball has been challenged by a fine team and it's collapsed. It was ok against a Pakistan team that had not played Test cricket for a while and were grateful for the visit and the Kiwis who were without 4 first choice bowlers. Art of the game is to play the conditions and the opposition in front of you.With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
That's pure guesswork but there's no point arguing about it any more, you all clearly disagree with me. I just suspect you'll all have the same complaints every time we lose under this approach.
With hindsight it's easy to say we were wrong but if we'd just ducked and dodged and not taken it on we'd have just guaranteed that every single test match going forward would've seen us facing fuckloads of short stuff.NO. By ducking and dodging we would have wasted their energy and 20 overs later their quickies would have been far too knackered to revert back to their disciplined line and length. That's the time to smash em out of the ground. It's called Test cricket, time to wait and enough time left to strike. However England have behaved like an amateur village team that wanted to get the game over with and nip off to the pub.
That's pure guesswork but there's no point arguing about it any more, you all clearly disagree with me. I just suspect you'll all have the same complaints every time we lose under this approach.
Bowled nicely...but. I wonder if Amderson and Broad are just now done. We're so badly lacking in pace.
Bowled nicely...but. I wonder if Amderson and Broad are just now done. We're so badly lacking in pace.
Honestly, Broad is on one of the unluckiest streaks I can remember, between this and the 4th innings at Edgebaston.
Anderson, however...breaks my heart to say it, but against real top-level batting he doesn't look to have the incision anymore.
Looking at the two sides, my preference would be the one effectively 166-1 with a 1-0 lead in the series.
That'll be the team that's just won the test championship and who were 1 wicket away from whitewashing us 18months ago?
Broad and Anderson have bowled garbage today under very helpful conditions
Not a big cricket fan so need some help. I always though test cricket was adjusting your tactics in accordance with the position of the match. I understand England have more aggressive tactics now but just sticking to the plan come what may really the answer, its almost as if the result is incidental to them.Yes you are right and you know more than you admit :)
Just need 7 for about 50.That's another hapball (when Bazball goes wrong) England will lose a Test match where Australia only had 9 wickets to play with.
Bowled nicely...but. I wonder if Amderson and Broad are just now done. We're so badly lacking in pace.
Honestly, Broad is on one of the unluckiest streaks I can remember, between this and the 4th innings at Edgebaston.
Anderson, however...breaks my heart to say it, but against real top-level batting he doesn't look to have the incision anymore.
There's just no threat at all anymore with Jimmy. I hope Wood is fit for the 3rd test.
Just proves you cannot take a 20/20 approach into an ashes series and expect anything other than a 5 nil whitewash
The other slightly naive thing getting peddled out now is the kind of message of, well you weren’t criticising when we were winning. Well obviously, but also it’s because in general there seemed to be method, calculation, and ruthlessness about us. In these first two Tests we’ve been really soft and just let Australia take the initiative and win one and probably another.
They might not be results driven, but ultimately they will live or die by results. If we get pumped 5-0, we won’t be bringing a new audience to cricket.
The frustration is it’s because I think they’ve got a bit lost and confused, I think the overarching idea is the right one. Also I think the Foakes thing sent a bit of a message of we’ll back you, but only if your one of our favourites.
But it’s execution from a strange mindset that isn't adapting to the game situation or opposition. This is in the head as much as it is in the technique.That’s what I mean - I don’t mean technique- I mean decision making
But it’s execution from a strange mindset that isn't adapting to the game situation or opposition. This is in the head as much as it is in the technique.That’s what I mean - I don’t mean technique- I mean decision making
Yeah I mean to me it’s clear they’ve lost their heads a bit. There’s a good article on the bbc highlighting something Duckett when asked about adapting to the situation. He said something like, “but that would make Australia think they’d won the battle”. Us losing all those wickets in that way was Australia winning the battle, from being dead on their feet. They’re now probably 80/20 favourites to win the war, for this Test at least.
Stokes contribution with the bat today lasted two balls and he didn't bowl a single ball when England desperately needed a wicket. A passenger....
Smash bang Bazball and reinventing Test cricket is harder to do when you've got two fast bowlers who will be pensioned off in the not too distant and a captain with regular fitness/ injury worries.
Smash bang Bazball and reinventing Test cricket is harder to do when you've got two fast bowlers who will be pensioned off in the not too distant and a captain with regular fitness/ injury worries.
To be fair it was also going to be a tough test against one of the best bowling attacks in recent times. I think the frustration has come from the fact that we have been in the games, possibly ahead at times, yet have blown it.
Had we been absolutely smoked so far then it probably been a bit more palatable.
Australia haven't really turned up yet, and they haven't had to.I wouldn't say that Rory. They have turned up and are at their very best for the Ashes except that this Australian team is not very good compared to their past great teams. England should be more than capable of going toe to toe with this team as a minimum and some would say more imposing due to home advantage. However two issues have made this England team ineffective and those are poor player selection and terrible game strategy and on field decisions. And to add to that Stokes is like rabbit in headlights hence his decision not to review Labuschagne lbw yesterday.
Australia haven't really turned up yet, and they haven't had to.I wouldn't say that Rory. They have turned up and are at their very best for the Ashes except that this Australian team is not very good compared to their past great teams. England should be more than capable of going toe to toe with this team as a minimum and some would say more imposing due to home advantage. However two issues have made this England team ineffective and those are poor player selection and terrible game strategy and on field decisions. And to add to that Stokes is like rabbit in headlights hence his decision not to review Labuschagne lbw yesterday.
Yeah I mean to me it’s clear they’ve lost their heads a bit. There’s a good article on the bbc highlighting something Duckett when asked about adapting to the situation. He said something like, “but that would make Australia think they’d won the battle”. Us losing all those wickets in that way was Australia winning the battle, from being dead on their feet. They’re now probably 80/20 favourites to win the war, for this Test at least.
That’s a poor drop by Jimmy
Now we’ve got Smith though!
In current world test teams context this is a very good Australian team however the standard of test cricket nowadays is poor and similarly rankings are based on that. It is not an excellent test team and fairly mediocre compared to great test teams of the past from most countries.
This is an excellent Australian team. Their top 5 (now that Warner is back in some sort of form), is excellent and is proven by the world rankings they have. Same with their bowling attack, its excellent and that is also proven by the world rankings they have.
That’s a poor drop by Jimmy
Now we’ve got Smith though!
That was one of the most simple catches dropped ive ever seen in test cricket. I honestly think my 8 year old son would have taken that, and hes really shit at cricket
Jimmy is the pressure release for them.
I thought there was a limit on the number of short pitched balls that could be bowled in an over?
Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
First time Windies have ever failed to qualify for Cricket World Cup in any format
I thought there was a limit on the number of short pitched balls that could be bowled in an over?
Theres a limit to 2 balls that can be above shoulder height
Australia haven't really turned up yet, and they haven't had to.I wouldn't say that Rory. They have turned up and are at their very best for the Ashes except that this Australian team is not very good compared to their past great teams. England should be more than capable of going toe to toe with this team as a minimum and some would say more imposing due to home advantage. However two issues have made this England team ineffective and those are poor player selection and terrible game strategy and on field decisions. And to add to that Stokes is like rabbit in headlights hence his decision not to review Labuschagne lbw yesterday.
how many did mcginn get?Whisper it, but Scotland look set to beat West Indies in the T20 Cricket World Cup Qualifiers.They've done it, won by 7 wickets, amazing.
Now Pope gone. It could be over tonight.
Meanwhile you’ve got Crawley coming out saying we’ll win by 150 runs. Get some humility, or at least be good before you start mouthing off.
To be fair that first test wasn't brief, we should have won.
I still think the Foakes decision has been a really bad one for this team. Not because Bairstow came in as such, but more it sent a message that the whole thing about we’ll keep backing you only applies if you’re one of the club. Foakes had demonstrably won England games, and got dropped for a player is clearly (perfect reasonably and not his fault) is not match fit.
It’s going to be 5-0 isn’t it?Don't give up. Think back to some of our absolutely fantastic fight backs.
Crawley is shite. Never a test batsmen.
Stokes playing on one leg has unbalanced the side badly. Hasn’t made a 50 for something like 16 innings I was reading somewhere.
Not really for. It’s too much and also it’s essentially on three players, the tail can’t bring anything. If it was say 120 to win, possibly, but 250 odd more is just too many.
I think if the tail were better it might be possible if we got off to a really good start. But Starc would rip through the tail, so I think unless we’re within say 30/40 by the time Broad/Robinson gets in I reckon we’re stuffed. It’s tougher than Headingly 2019. I genuinely thinks it probably a 2-3% chance.
It’s weird they’re so upset, he put the ball on the floor. In any case the 99% certain to win, so big deal.
I thought the Smith catch the other day was dodgy let alone this one, he was fucking shining it on the grass
I still think the Foakes decision has been a really bad one for this team. Not because Bairstow came in as such, but more it sent a message that the whole thing about we’ll keep backing you only applies if you’re one of the club. Foakes had demonstrably won England games, and got dropped for a player is clearly (perfect reasonably and not his fault) is not match fit.
With the injury to Pope what they should do is push Bairstow up to 3 and bring in Foakes. I’d look to bring in Wood, probably for Anderson. I’d like to see Woakes play at Headingley for Robinson, not because I think Robinson has been particularly bad but Woakes adds a bit of depth to the batting line up as well as being a decent first change.
However, I suspect they will want to get someone who can turn the ball so perhaps Ahmed comes in.
Stokes playing on one leg has unbalanced the side badly. Hasn’t made a 50 for something like 16 innings I was reading somewhere.
I think Stokes needs to drop the bowling altogether.
It's one thing to be an aggressive pace bowler and destructive batsman in your early and mid 20s - maybe even a bit later these days if you're a t20 specialist.
But he's 32 now, and has been playing test cricket solidly for nearly ten years.
How many fast-bowling all-rounders have there been, really? And how many were still effective at both disciplines at 32? The most recent comparison is obviously Flintoff, who retired at 31.
Seam bowling is a very unnatural movement, and it's no coincidence that most of those with the greatest longevity have been very lean. Stokes is a big, heavy guy. With his style of fielding thrown in, it's no wonder his body is fucked.
I really think he could do with trimming down, even if that means losing some muscle, stop trying to do everything and spend his time in the nets. If he were to focus on his batting, he's a natural no.5 - the guy's got 12 test hundreds, for fuck's sake.
I can't really comment on his captaincy, because cricket captaincy is magic as far as I'm concerned, but in terms of his individual performances, he could either focus on being one of the best no.5s in the world for the next five or six years; or carry on with what he's currently doing for another 18/24 months until his body breaks down completely.
I think if the tail were better it might be possible if we got off to a really good start. But Starc would rip through the tail, so I think unless we’re within say 30/40 by the time Broad/Robinson gets in I reckon we’re stuffed. It’s tougher than Headingly 2019. I genuinely thinks it probably a 2-3% chance.
Yeah, the win predictor at 14% is incredibly generous, there is no way it is above 10%.
Watching that Starc catch again off Duckett, Starc really is a fucking horrible cheat.Same old........
Onto today, it’s got the feeling of being pretty over within 30 mins.It could be as pathetic as that or a bit of backbone and about 250+. I can't see Bairstow resisting much post the two who are in and after him it's a very fragile tai. Either way it will be a deserved defeat.
Meanwhile you’ve got Crawley coming out saying we’ll win by 150 runs. Get some humility, or at least be good before you start mouthing off.
It's like Olsen coming out and saying we're going to neat Man City 4-0.
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
They are a country with absolutely zero history. So much is put into sport as a national identity.
Why Ben, why? Why not leave it alone!
Maybe if England had approached their batting v’s game situation as they have this morning in the preceding 9 days of Test cricket we’d be going 2-0 up today.
Taken what’s on offer without taking silly risks.
That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Im with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Im with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Im with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Snidey Aussie twats. No fucking surprise from the sandpaper mob. If the Long Room is giving it you, you're a ******.
Broad is giving them absolute pelters, while Stokes dismantles Green and gives black eyed Pat some treatment too. Its probably not going to happen again, but...
The example they just showed of another stumping is nothing like just what happened to Bairstow.
It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
No. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
No. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
It's considered normal play in between balls.Perhaps it shouldn't be. Between overs: fair enough.
Yeah 100 - bairstow been stupid - and I think your suggestion is exactly the way of handling it - and the most opperate comparisonIm with PaulThere is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
Isn’t it just like the batsmen leaving his ground early before a ball is bowled? The bowler will give him a warning first and this is the same for me. They should’ve withdrawn the appeal and if he did it again, it’s fair game. It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.
Don’t get me wrong here, it’s Bairstow’s fault 100%. He can’t point the finger because it’s his fault entirely. It’s the spirit of the game that I’ve got a gripe with. They’ve just shown a replay on TV of England apparently doing the same, it wasn’t the same as the Aussie had set off on a run. I’d have been very disappointed if we hadn’t had withdrawn the appeal.
Never mind, at least it’s like a proper Ashes now and the needle is back.
It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
No. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
BsNo. There was no advantage batsman was trying to gain by doing what he did. It's considered normal play in between balls. It's totally different from backing up where a batsman is trying to score a run by foul means. What Carey did was sneaky and unfair.There is. It's stealth and surreptitious and that's not how cricket or any sport should be played.That is the worst bit of sportsmanship I've seen in a while. Why not just roll the ball on the ground?
Don’t think there is an issue with it to be honest. The ball was still live and Bairstow wandered out of his ground.
He left his crease barely after the ball got to the wicket keeper. They've clearly got a read on Bairstow doing that at the end of an over and they've taken advantage. Absolutely no issue with them on this one. It's 100% on Bairstow being a fucking moron.
You wait for the umpire to call "over" before wandering down the pitch. The ball had barely gotten to Carey before Bairstow went off on his venture. Its something that's clearly been noticed by Australia and talked about, so why haven't Bairstow and England noticed it and rectified it?
I don't think Australia have done anything wrong in this instance, both by the laws and spirit of the game. Bairstow is the only person deserving of criticism
Yes, sorry! I take that bit back (I was typing in anger!). I get the bit about backing up, but I don't think it's quite the same. A bowler stumping a batsman who's backing up isn't difficult - hence the warning. This was watching a player and taking advantage of his weakness, which I think is perfectly acceptable.It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
Yes but like I said if that happens at the non strikers end, the bowler would flick the bails off as a warning and not appeal. Like I also said if he did it, retracted the appeal and then I’d have no issues with it if he did it again. What he did was within the laws but not within the spirit of the game. It’s all about opinions and that’s my’n but it doesn’t make it nonsense or hysterical.
Well I and everyone bar a group of twats decked out in coordinated coloured shirts at Lords disagreeOh no! I'll have to change my mind now! ;)
Well I and everyone bar a group of twats decked out in coordinated coloured shirts at Lords disagreeOh no! I'll have to change my mind now! ;)
:D Fair enough! But I agree with twr so...Well I and everyone bar a group of twats decked out in coordinated coloured shirts at Lords disagreeOh no! I'll have to change my mind now! ;)
I was actually replying to taylorworkrate but I type slow!
Yes, sorry! I take that bit back (I was typing in anger!). I get the bit about backing up, but I don't think it's quite the same. A bowler stumping a batsman who's backing up isn't difficult - hence the warning. This was watching a player and taking advantage of his weakness, which I think is perfectly acceptable.It’s against the spirit of the game and they had the time to think about it. They’ll be using sandpaper on the ball next.Absolute hysterical nonsense! If Carey randomly chucked the stumps down throughout the game in the hope a batsman might be out of his ground you might have a point, but even I've notice that Bairstow leaves his crease very quickly to stride up the wicket and give it a prod after every ball. Not gamesmanship, not against the "Spirit of the Game (TM)" just taking advantage of sloppy/ naive behaviour, which I'm afraid will be the cause of England losing.
Yes but like I said if that happens at the non strikers end, the bowler would flick the bails off as a warning and not appeal. Like I also said if he did it, retracted the appeal and then I’d have no issues with it if he did it again. What he did was within the laws but not within the spirit of the game. It’s all about opinions and that’s my’n but it doesn’t make it nonsense or hysterical.
I would like to say to Stokesy take it easy mate but doubt if he would listen. At least one team is trying to play cricket.
I would like to say to Stokesy take it easy mate but doubt if he would listen. At least one team is trying to play cricket.
He has to play this way now. There's little chance of substantial runs from Broad onwards
Is it time to think the unthinkable?LaLaLaLa... Not listening, not listening!
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
They are a country with absolutely zero history. So much is put into sport as a national identity.
Well, a few people there have a bit of history. 40,000 years of it, in fact...
I would like to say to Stokesy take it easy mate but doubt if he would listen. At least one team is trying to play cricket.
He has to play this way now. There's little chance of substantial runs from Broad onwards
Looks like Broad may disagree
Piss face Ponting having a moan about the catch now. Another reason to dislike the Aussie's, they think they know better than everyone else.
What is it with Aussie sportsmen? I know tons of Aussies in real life who aren't like this at all, but this constant chippy whinging gimmick they do whenever they put on a pair of gym shoes is such a thing. And incredibly boring.
They are a country with absolutely zero history. So much is put into sport as a national identity.
Well, a few people there have a bit of history. 40,000 years of it, in fact...
I know what you mean, but I think you also know what I mean!
How was that not a wide from GreenAnd Starc as well now. Just different form of cheating.
I think Stokes needs to drop the bowling altogether.
It's one thing to be an aggressive pace bowler and destructive batsman in your early and mid 20s - maybe even a bit later these days if you're a t20 specialist.
But he's 32 now, and has been playing test cricket solidly for nearly ten years.
How many fast-bowling all-rounders have there been, really? And how many were still effective at both disciplines at 32? The most recent comparison is obviously Flintoff, who retired at 31.
Seam bowling is a very unnatural movement, and it's no coincidence that most of those with the greatest longevity have been very lean. Stokes is a big, heavy guy. With his style of fielding thrown in, it's no wonder his body is fucked.
I really think he could do with trimming down, even if that means losing some muscle, stop trying to do everything and spend his time in the nets. If he were to focus on his batting, he's a natural no.5 - the guy's got 12 test hundreds, for fuck's sake.
I can't really comment on his captaincy, because cricket captaincy is magic as far as I'm concerned, but in terms of his individual performances, he could either focus on being one of the best no.5s in the world for the next five or six years; or carry on with what he's currently doing for another 18/24 months until his body breaks down completely.
Agree with all of the above … however, just a point of order, one of the best all rounders of all time, Jacques Kallis retired when he was 38.
I think Stokes is better by comparison than most English all rounders of any generation but clearly his left knee is restricting his bowling and has done for a while. I agree. I would like to try him in place of Crawley but only when he’s fit and he adjusts to it mentally.
Win or lose Stokes is an absolute legend. You’d follow him over the top any day of the week and this batting display has been unbelievable.
Win or lose Stokes is an absolute legend. You’d follow him over the top any day of the week and this batting display has been unbelievable.He sure is. Prince Harry will be trying to pass himself off as Ben Stokes.
Win or lose Stokes is an absolute legend. You’d follow him over the top any day of the week and this batting display has been unbelievable.He sure is. Prince Harry will be trying to pass himself off as Ben Stokes.
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
and then Ollie Robinson bats like a goon. Fucking dimwitted batting.
Is it time to think the unthinkable?
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
and then Ollie Robinson bats like a goon. Fucking dimwitted batting.
Boh, he's a tailender told to go out there and swing. Much more annoyed with Bairstow still!
Brilliant effort from Stokes to even give us a chance. Won't last long now
and then Ollie Robinson bats like a goon. Fucking dimwitted batting.
Boh, he's a tailender told to go out there and swing. Much more annoyed with Bairstow still!
Robinson is a better batter than Broad and should play each ball on its own merit. It was a dumb shot. Bairstow, what a clown.
Great stuff stokesy. Win or loose you led wel.
Poor effort.Great stuff stokesy. Win or loose you led wel.
*raises eyebrow*
Eh?Great stuff stokesy. Win or loose you led wel.
*raises eyebrow*
Lyon going off injured when we were 190/1 in our first innings should have been the defining moment of the test match and perhaps the series as a whole. It was such a wonderful opportunity.
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again.FIFY. :PAnd they cheated.
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again. And they cheated.
Strauss is a pompous eliteist twat…‘perhaps there are some who wouldnt normally come to Lords in’
Strauss is a pompous eliteist twat…‘perhaps there are some who wouldnt normally come to Lords in’
What’s the context of that remark? I switched off after the last wicket.
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again. And they cheated.
Far be it from me to defend a bunch of upside down lager gargling offspring of convicts but I don't think they cheated.
Strauss is a pompous eliteist twat…‘perhaps there are some who wouldnt normally come to Lords in’
What’s the context of that remark? I switched off after the last wicket.
They were talking about Lords actually having an atmosphere for the first time ever
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
Game over - good effort (second innings) but overall, thrown away again. And they cheated.
Far be it from me to defend a bunch of upside down lager gargling offspring of convicts but I don't think they cheated.
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
Stokes did brilliantly today, but the really need at how they chucked it away in that first innings. They should have had at parity at the very least going into the third innings. That changes the game.
I’d have big question marks over Bairstow, Anderson, and Crawley. The latter mainly because he’s said some stupid things of late and he can’t back them up.
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
David Warner and Steve Smith are back playing Test cricket, so moral doesn't really come into it for CA.
It’s not cheating, but it’s pretty low from a side who presents themselves as moral arbiters of the game.
David Warner and Steve Smith are back playing Test cricket, so moral doesn't really come into it for CA.
Australia see themselves as moral arbiters of the game? Lmaooooooooooo
I really hope they use the anger from this game to make them less casual, and more ruthless. We‘ve lost these two games rather than Aus winning them. That’s not to say they haven’t played well, but both games we’ve let go of really strong positions.And too often through silly individual mistakes/decisions. It reminds me of the old Tyrone Mings: brilliance contrasting with the occasional brain-freeze. Anyway, both matches ended closer than I expected so I'm not totally pessimistic.
Australia see themselves as moral arbiters of the game? Lmaooooooooooo
Well yeah I know, but they clearly do.
I really hope they use the anger from this game to make them less casual, and more ruthless. We‘ve lost these two games rather than Aus winning them. That’s not to say they haven’t played well, but both games we’ve let go of really strong positions.
Lyon going off injured when we were 190/1 in our first innings should have been the defining moment of the test match and perhaps the series as a whole. It was such a wonderful opportunity.Agreed. Both is this match and first Test there were moments to grab it and England didn't.
And again that runout/stumping (not sure about official status) of Bairstow was blatant cheating.More a stumping I should think, as Bairstow was wandering up middle of the wicket, not trying to get a run. It wasn't cheating and I don't even think it was underhand. The ball was still in play and it was a clever bit of play which caught out a batsman behaving sloppily.
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Even if some ex players struggled with dealing with the stumping, at least the crowd at Lords knew what had happened.What narrative is that?
I suppose they did not want to upset prescribed narrative.
You again.Even if some ex players struggled with dealing with the stumping, at least the crowd at Lords knew what had happened.What narrative is that?
I suppose they did not want to upset prescribed narrative.
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
It was a genuine and honest question!You again.Even if some ex players struggled with dealing with the stumping, at least the crowd at Lords knew what had happened.What narrative is that?
I suppose they did not want to upset prescribed narrative.
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
I think that's the biggest difference / frustration - when its really mattered we have let it slip, often through poor batting choices. We need to take encouragement from the fact that even though we made a lot of mistakes - we ran them close twice.Lyon going off injured when we were 190/1 in our first innings should have been the defining moment of the test match and perhaps the series as a whole. It was such a wonderful opportunity.Agreed. Both is this match and first Test there were moments to grab it and England didn't.
Cricketing etiquette was burnt to death on this one. It is normal to recognise certain next steps by all participating with a nod etc. Which means respecting the fact that expected course of action will prevail. When the Keeper is not standing up it is normal to expect that ball in his gloves is going to be dead when batsmen clearly have no intention of seeking advantage. What Carey did was to violate that understanding. May be not cheating technically but nevertheless a sneaky underhand act that will always be regarded as cheating on a cricket pitch and pavilions across the world.And again that runout/stumping (not sure about official status) of Bairstow was blatant cheating.More a stumping I should think, as Bairstow was wandering up middle of the wicket, not trying to get a run. It wasn't cheating and I don't even think it was underhand. The ball was still in play and it was a clever bit of play which caught out a batsman behaving sloppily.
Listening to Stokes after the game - it feels like the instruction is more, "if you feel you can take it on, take it on". Robinson is better than that. They were brilliant with the ball yesterday, but Robinson and to some extent Broad lost there wickets too easily. No disrespect to Broad would had been amazing up until then.Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
They did, which makes the way Robinson in particular came out and played look all the more pathetic. The game isn't completely over when Stokes got out and Robinson is capable with the bat. If he was under instruction to do that then the instruction was pathetic
Cricketing etiquette was burnt to death on this one. It is normal to recognise certain next steps by all participating with a nod etc. Which means respecting the fact that expected course of action will prevail. When the Keeper is not standing up it is normal to expect that ball in his gloves is going to be dead when batsmen clearly have no intention of seeking advantage. What Carey did was to violate that understanding. May be not cheating technically but nevertheless a sneaky underhand act that will always be regarded as cheating on a cricket pitch and pavilions across the world.And again that runout/stumping (not sure about official status) of Bairstow was blatant cheating.More a stumping I should think, as Bairstow was wandering up middle of the wicket, not trying to get a run. It wasn't cheating and I don't even think it was underhand. The ball was still in play and it was a clever bit of play which caught out a batsman behaving sloppily.
Listening to Stokes after the game - it feels like the instruction is more, "if you feel you can take it on, take it on". Robinson is better than that. They were brilliant with the ball yesterday, but Robinson and to some extent Broad lost there wickets too easily. No disrespect to Broad would had been amazing up until then.Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
They did, which makes the way Robinson in particular came out and played look all the more pathetic. The game isn't completely over when Stokes got out and Robinson is capable with the bat. If he was under instruction to do that then the instruction was pathetic
I think this will help Broad in the next game - but would like to see one of Robinson or Anderson make way for Woods or Woakes
I agree with all of thatListening to Stokes after the game - it feels like the instruction is more, "if you feel you can take it on, take it on". Robinson is better than that. They were brilliant with the ball yesterday, but Robinson and to some extent Broad lost there wickets too easily. No disrespect to Broad would had been amazing up until then.Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.Agree with that.
Tongue and Anderson made a decent fist of it for the last wicket.
They did, which makes the way Robinson in particular came out and played look all the more pathetic. The game isn't completely over when Stokes got out and Robinson is capable with the bat. If he was under instruction to do that then the instruction was pathetic
I think this will help Broad in the next game - but would like to see one of Robinson or Anderson make way for Woods or Woakes
I think Broad can be forgiven as he'd been in the middle for a couple of hours and with just 10 and 11 left he had to take the option of trying to get a few away to the boundary.
I'd pick both Woakes and Wood for the next match in place of Robinson and Anderson. Woakes I think would be more of a threat than Robinson with the ball and would also lengthen the batting a bit. We are desperate for more pace in the attack too. Only concern with Wood is fitness but we are at the point now where we need to try it.
On Robinson it depends. If he’s fully fit and bowling at full pace I think he’s a bigger threat than Woakes in most conditions. I think they’ll want a spinner in, so it’ll be interesting.
Crawley’s the odd one for me, more than anyone they go out of their way to defend him on the basis of potential. But he’s played 30+ Tests and hardly ever has a big positive impact.
Stokes effort was great but what's disappointing is that at 7 down and only 60 odd required England were totally useless. There has to be more grit in the tail.
Dan Lawrence was the back up batsman named in the squad so assume he will come in if Pope can't play.
It’s going to be unbelievably hard to turn around now, but they’ve to take it one game at a time. The one thing the first two games have shown is that they absolutely have enough to beat Australia, but they’ve been to casual/weak in the absolute key moments. In the next game they got to spot those moments and also ruthlessly win them. I really hope the bitterness towards the end of the game fuels them now.
Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
I think you would also have people on here, if the situation were reversed and it was Bairstow doing it to Carey, that would be praising Bairstow for previously noticing Carey moving out of his crease when the ball isnt dead and taking advantage of it. I think their team are a bunch of pricks too but in this instance I think that only Bairstow deserves criticism for how moronic he was.
Surely Pope won’t play at Headingley. Move Bairstow up to 3, play Foakes at 8, Ali at 7 (if they’re intent on keeping him) or vice versa and your three quicks. As to who that is, personally I’d pick Woakes, Tounge/Wood (if fit) and Broad.
It will be flat at Headingley, I think they said Leach bowled 20 of overs first inning last Ashes.
The comments about Wood ‘s fitness were rather worrying I thought.
Surely Pope won’t play at Headingley. Move Bairstow up to 3, play Foakes at 8, Ali at 7 (if they’re intent on keeping him) or vice versa and your three quicks. As to who that is, personally I’d pick Woakes, Tounge/Wood (if fit) and Broad.
It will be flat at Headingley, I think they said Leach bowled 20 of overs first inning last Ashes.
The comments about Wood ‘s fitness were rather worrying I thought.
If Pope is out, I would consider moving Brook to 3 rather than Bairstow. Bring Foakes in at 7 and either move Stokes or Bairstow to 5.
Don’t think Anderson will play, but think Wood will come in. Think Tongue has probably done enough to stay in, so it will Broad or Robinson fir the final spot if we go with the three seamers.
Surely Pope won’t play at Headingley. Move Bairstow up to 3, play Foakes at 8, Ali at 7 (if they’re intent on keeping him) or vice versa and your three quicks. As to who that is, personally I’d pick Woakes, Tounge/Wood (if fit) and Broad.
It will be flat at Headingley, I think they said Leach bowled 20 of overs first inning last Ashes.
The comments about Wood ‘s fitness were rather worrying I thought.
If Pope is out, I would consider moving Brook to 3 rather than Bairstow. Bring Foakes in at 7 and either move Stokes or Bairstow to 5.
Don’t think Anderson will play, but think Wood will come in. Think Tongue has probably done enough to stay in, so it will Broad or Robinson fir the final spot if we go with the three seamers.
I think there are concerns about Wood’s fitness so I can see the attack being unchanged
I think Woakes is a long way from selection, he’s been out of the test side for a very long time. Could he cope with the rigours of test cricket now?
Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
Two things from my perspective - JB has touched his back foot down and has scraped his "mark" with a stud before going walkabout and the square leg umpire - at point- is clearly walking in head bowed and not looking - having himself assumed it's over ready to stand for the next over before the stumps are broken.Can't believe we've got people on here seriously defending the Bairstow wicket. Absolute shithouse move and they deserve every bit of criticism they get. I reckon they've gone all in on it because they were so pissed off about Starc catch night before. They're a bunch of tossers and I would love it, love it, if we manage to stick it to them from here. ******
That might be the case, but it was sloppy from Bairstow. You are taught as a young kid to be switched on around the crease and don't go wandering out of it.
Can't quite make out if the umpires moved in anyway before Bairstow did, for if they did then I suppose it could be argued that it was fair to assume that was the over and it would be interesting to know if they had actually been calling 'over' previous to that.
I played cricket for 15 years and only saw this happen once. My view is that although Bairstow is at fault this was as fucking sneaky an act as it's possible to get on a cricket field.
It's the cricketing equivalent of what Leeds did when they feigned to put the ball out but then played on and scored. Its just poor form all round.
You can only imagine the level of whataboutery going on here today to justify it too. They really are classless wankers.
I played cricket for 15 years and only saw this happen once. My view is that although Bairstow is at fault this was as fucking sneaky an act as it's possible to get on a cricket field.
It's the cricketing equivalent of what Leeds did when they feigned to put the ball out but then played on and scored. Its just poor form all round.
You can only imagine the level of whataboutery going on here today to justify it too. They really are classless wankers.
Another thing about the incident, it's making all the headlines in the papers and what's everyone's talking about on the radio, when it should be all about Stokes's knock, one of the greatest Test innings I've ever seen, how he didn't get MOTM, I'll never know.
And the truly magnificent thing about Stokes innings again was how he changed gear according to the match conditions. By christ if the others could just figure that out we'd probably be 2 up by now.
And the truly magnificent thing about Stokes innings again was how he changed gear according to the match conditions. By christ if the others could just figure that out we'd probably be 2 up by now.
Yes Stokes showed intelligence in his innings, we need some others to do that.
And the truly magnificent thing about Stokes innings again was how he changed gear according to the match conditions. By christ if the others could just figure that out we'd probably be 2 up by now.
Yes Stokes showed intelligence in his innings, we need some others to do that.
He did it at Edgbaston as well. I'm all for the attacking ethos but it needs a much higher dose of intelligence injected into it. England were in good positions in both tests and fucked them both up. It would be similar to Villa being 2-1 up against Brighton on the final day and then changing to a 3-2-5 formation and sending Emi up for corners. Suicidal.
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
Two strange misfiring spells have cost us two tests IMO: persisting with the old ball after the eighth wicket in the second innings at Edgebaston, and persisting with the hooking-the-bouncer plan when it was plainly not working. Not the declaration, not electing to bowl, those have justifications and can't really be called 'errors' therefore, I think. But those two decisions were low-percentage high-risk plans which failed utterly. Sadly.
I always thought they were all know as Billy Bunters. Everyday is a learning day.A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
Two strange misfiring spells have cost us two tests IMO: persisting with the old ball after the eighth wicket in the second innings at Edgebaston, and persisting with the hooking-the-bouncer plan when it was plainly not working. Not the declaration, not electing to bowl, those have justifications and can't really be called 'errors' therefore, I think. But those two decisions were low-percentage high-risk plans which failed utterly. Sadly.
For me if you win the toss and choose to bowl it's a mistake if the opposition achieve a 'par' score or better. At Lords 400+ is a good first innings score that will generally leave you in control of the match, and that's how it turned out.
It's not a big mistake but I reckon when we made that decision we were hoping for them to get no more than 350. Even then I don't think the decision is at fault but rather our execution in the field. We decided to bowl because the conditions looked good for bowling and the forecast for day 2 looked good but then we did very little to take advantage of those conditions, for me that set the tone of the match.
I think it's easy to forget that on Wednesday evening we were all annoyed at the bowlers and some on here were talking about an innings defeat. We were behind for the rest of the game and, bazball or not, England regularly collapse in those circumstances. Again in my view bazball got us into a position where it looked like we might catch them in the first innings and then also led to some of the wickets we lost but I don't think it's as simple as "if we didn't play the hook shot we'd have won". Again look at the batting conditions, day 3 was much better for the bowlers and it proved decisive as we collapsed. I just don't think having less runs but more wickets at the end of day 2 would've had a significant impact on the match.
By the way has anyone on here either applied to be on the waiting list or ever been close to becoming an MCC member?
A short story in 3 names.
(https://i.ibb.co/GTjhFjm/IMG-3680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTjhFjm)
There's no fucking way those are real. Wodehouse would've rejected them as insufficiently true to life.
Of course they're made up, people haven't actually fallen for that have they?
It’s made up. No names are mentioned in the MCC statement other than Guy Lavender.
You can admire the overall approach that the England team are embracing, while still being of the opinion that there's room for improvement, especially around decision making.
Stuart Broad not walking to the one of the most obvious edges in the history of the game puts him on slightly dodgy ground when it comes to moral outrage.
You can admire the overall approach that the England team are embracing, while still being of the opinion that there's room for improvement, especially around decision making.
Regarding the Lord's members, they might have said something, but in both cases it was the Australian players who went towards them and confronted them. Warner in particular squared up to one of the members.
Talking about the Aussie's not very sportsman like behaviour I heard about this on a podcast the other day. Before my time so I had not seen it but I found it funny that you could do that so recently (albeit you couldn't do it in England at that point):&feature=share8
I had seen it before and that was way worse than yesterday.
I don't disagree with the idea that there's room for improvement, that's clear, what I fundamentally disagree with is that we lost the game because of bazball when, in my opinion, we lost because of poor form in the attack and some poor shots. The same as why we have lost many matches in the past and why we'll lose many matches going forward. I'm worried that, at the first sign of a problem, people are very quickly turning on a play style that has improved us massively.
I don't disagree with the idea that there's room for improvement, that's clear, what I fundamentally disagree with is that we lost the game because of bazball when, in my opinion, we lost because of poor form in the attack and some poor shots. The same as why we have lost many matches in the past and why we'll lose many matches going forward. I'm worried that, at the first sign of a problem, people are very quickly turning on a play style that has improved us massively.
With respect Paul, you were cheering on the declaration in the first innings of the first test, when we all know, deep down, it was a poor decision.
As for the other issues, Foakes needs to keep wicket, he's a better keeper. There have been poor decisions all over the place, some poor shots, some poor bits of fielding etc. Bazball is great against the lesser sides, not against Australia in the only series that really matters. If you cannot win the test match, make sure you don't lose. The first test gave the Aussies momentum and we are too soft to drop Anderson. Arguably, we haven't got the depth of bowling due to injury no way are we winning three tests on the trot against Australia. I wish.
Apparently according to bbc the left field selection is move everyone up one spot and being Mo back in at 7 & Woakes in at 8
Apparently according to bbc the left field selection is move everyone up one spot and being Mo back in at 7 & Woakes in at 8
If Woakes is coming in for Jimmy then that's probably the right call. I'd prefer it if Bairstow was under a little more threat though.
It's been said on here before, Brooke to 3 Bairstow to 5, Foakes at 8 Mo at 7 would be a sensible option.
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
Yep, Tongue has to stay in the team too.
Brook is a real talent but he'd have to significantly change the way he's approaching an innings to put him at three. I don't think they'll be moving him that high any time soon.
Also Foakes hasn't been picked and that won't change unless the selected wicketkeeper gets injured. He was unlucky not to be selected but he's enjoying that phenomenon of becoming a better player because he's not in the team
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
Yep, Tongue has to stay in the team too.
Yep, he has something about him and could be pleased with his contribution at Lord's.
I think Woods was touch and go for Lords, so hopefully he's fine for Headingley. One of the differences between the teams up to now has been real pace, and the ability to send the ball down at 90+mph rather than low 80mph plodders.
Yep, Tongue has to stay in the team too.
Yep, he has something about him and could be pleased with his contribution at Lord's.
He was the most consistent threat for us.
Very good, nice to know we mingle with cricketing royalty. So how do you become a member; is it normal apply with one or two seconders and wait?By the way has anyone on here either applied to be on the waiting list or ever been close to becoming an MCC member?
I am a member, but most times I go I don't bother sitting in the pavilion.
I was there on Wednesday and Thursday and was the only one in the members queue in shorts and trainers.
I don't disagree with the idea that there's room for improvement, that's clear, what I fundamentally disagree with is that we lost the game because of bazball when, in my opinion, we lost because of poor form in the attack and some poor shots. The same as why we have lost many matches in the past and why we'll lose many matches going forward. I'm worried that, at the first sign of a problem, people are very quickly turning on a play style that has improved us massively.
With respect Paul, you were cheering on the declaration in the first innings of the first test, when we all know, deep down, it was a poor decision.
As for the other issues, Foakes needs to keep wicket, he's a better keeper. There have been poor decisions all over the place, some poor shots, some poor bits of fielding etc. Bazball is great against the lesser sides, not against Australia in the only series that really matters. If you cannot win the test match, make sure you don't lose. The first test gave the Aussies momentum and we are too soft to drop Anderson. Arguably, we haven't got the depth of bowling due to injury no way are we winning three tests on the trot against Australia. I wish.
I wasn't cheering anything on, I said that it was a par score for the innings, that they clearly wanted to get a few overs in that evening and that the declaration wasn't the reason we didn't win. Which of those are you upset with?
The bold bit, that's exactly the attitude that England have had for decades, where we've pretty consistently under-achieved and let Australia dominate, why are you so desperate to return to what was a consistently failing brand of cricket after 2 matches? Have you forgotten the last ashes series where we held on by our fingers to only lose 4-0? Have you forgotten us losing to the west indies last easter?
Sounds like they have gone with Mo, Wood and Woakes instead of Pope, Tongue and Jimmy with Brook at 3
So what that’d be Mo at 7? Not sure I like that.
Woakes is fine at 8, but I’m not convinced Mo is at 7 nowadays. At least it would give us some bowling flexibility.
Not on all strips. I think Tongue would be better on freshly laid surface.Sounds like they have gone with Mo, Wood and Woakes instead of Pope, Tongue and Jimmy with Brook at 3
Not a massive cricket fan but Mo, Wood might work better than Tongue.
Seems a bit harsh on Tongue.
Sounds like they have gone with Mo, Wood and Woakes instead of Pope, Tongue and Jimmy with Brook at 3
Not a massive cricket fan but Mo, Wood might work better than Tongue.
Not on all strips. I think Tongue would be better on freshly laid surface.
Core batting is weaker, but lower order is potentially much stronger which could be important.You know that never works. If your first 5 don't do it bottom 5 don't as there is far too much pressure. They have weakened the top order.
Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
OK, so in 35 innings where he has bowled he has picked up 5 wickets on 3 occasions and 4 in 4 innings. That's 7 out 35 where as a strike bowler he was reasonably effective. That's ok but not exceptional.Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
Sorry Aftab, but that’s absolute nonsense. Tongue did well, but a couple of sub par games doesn’t change the fact that Robinson had had an exceptional Test career to date.
Surprised that Robinson has kept his place rather than TongueYes, Tongue was far more effective in one match than Robinson has ever been in any Test match he has played.
Sorry Aftab, but that’s absolute nonsense. Tongue did well, but a couple of sub par games doesn’t change the fact that Robinson had had an exceptional Test career to date.
England will field. Wrong decision IMO. To win this match take control by batting first.
Christ, if we could just have Wood and Archer fully fit what a difference it would make
Delighted so far😊England will field. Wrong decision IMO. To win this match take control by batting first.
I disagree. The pitch is in favour of bowling first. England just have to bowl a hell of a lot better than the shitshow they served up 1st day at Lords.
Great morning that could be even better if Bairstow didn't play like he keeps wicket in oven gloves.
Looking forward to hearing the welcome Carey and Cummins are gonna get, when they walk out to bat.
Oh that's a horrible drop from Root, absolute sitter. Our catching has been atrocious.
Great morning that could be even better if Bairstow didn't play like he keeps wicket in oven gloves.
Smashed a bowl of fried onions yesterday tried to land them with one oven glove, Baistow-esque
Robinson walks off the field mid-over
Robinson walks off the field mid-overI know how he feels...
Pope out for the rest of the Ashes. Lawrence expected to be his replacement.
Robinson walks off the field mid-over
Brilliant selection
Robinson is infuriating.
Marsh has batted really well.
Sigh.
Once again England are snatching defeat from jaws of victory. How many more matches to lose before a proper wicky is selected?
Once again England are snatching defeat from jaws of victory. How many more matches to lose before a proper wicky is selected?
Think we'll find that they will become very stubborn and the more clamour there is for Foakes to be in the side, the more resolute they will become in picking Bairstow.
I don't agree with either of those. I reckon Bairstow is on very shaky ground and needs to score runs this match. I can see why they stuck with him though to bat in his home ground and with a whole bunch of righteous indignation at his back.
That was quite funny from Root. Pure furious with the ball he was.
Woakes and Wood have made a massive difference to the attack, we look much more threatening and really should've been looking at cleaning them up for less than 200 if we'd been better in the field.
How many down by the close?
I am going for 2 down.
A pity Mark Wood couldn't bowl in the first two tests, really outstanding pace bowling. Very good by Chris Woakes as well. Just imagine what might have been if Jofra Archer was fit! Him and Wood would've blown the Aussies away. I said before our bowling attack has been at half strength at best.
I have no idea how crawley seems to get his eye "out" rather than in
We need Bairstow to turn up. He’s missing a lot of opportunities with the gloves.I wish!
His selection is looking pretty disastrous currently, but 150 from him tomorrow makes things look better.
I've not been able to keep up with the game, so I'm watching the highlights now. That opening spell from Wood, just fucking wow! And Woakesy strikes as I type. Noice.
Fucking shambles. Bairstow has been a disaster of a selection, one useful innings with the bat and nothing else and just dreadful with the gloves. We’ll lose this game in the next hour if we’re not careful.
Fucking shambles. Bairstow has been a disaster of a selection, one useful innings with the bat and nothing else and just dreadful with the gloves. We’ll lose this game in the next hour if we’re not careful.Look at the difference in wicket keeping, Bairstow nowhere near good enough at this level.
You could argue that Root got himself out of form with his ludicrous running down the pitch to Lyon in the 2nd innings at Edgbaston and needlessly going after the short ball every single shot in the 1st innings at Lords. Bairstow also looked in good form in both his innings at Edgbaston before getting himself out twice in very poor ways.
You could argue that Root got himself out of form with his ludicrous running down the pitch to Lyon in the 2nd innings at Edgbaston and needlessly going after the short ball every single shot in the 1st innings at Lords. Bairstow also looked in good form in both his innings at Edgbaston before getting himself out twice in very poor ways.
Root is a top class batsman but I think he’s tried to adapt to a style that’s just not him. He can play his shots but is definitely not an all out attacking batsman. He’s confused himself.
Bairstow’s swipe was pure farce.
One of the former Aussie players (can't recall which) I think got it spot on when he said that what England have been playing in this series is not "bazball" but actually "casball". They've been way too casual in everything they do.
I think that's about right
One of the former Aussie players (can't recall which) I think got it spot on when he said that what England have been playing in this series is not "bazball" but actually "casball". They've been way too casual in everything they do.
I think that's about right
Yep, I agree, we've just been sloppy, that's been my point all along.
Top 4 got good deliveries, but Bairstow and Moeen have gone carelessly. Very much exactly what they - and we - did not need.
Blimey, that shot that got Moeen Ali out was truly awful, as was the one that almost immediately preceeded it.
I am pretty sure the point of bazball isn't to simply slog it around, but feel empowered to play how you want to play (ie clarity of thinking and commitment to playing the way you see it).
Maybe the issue is we are picking too many players that can't or won't "dig in".
Ten off two balls from Wood off Starc at the start of the afternoon session
It's lazy cricket. It takes hard work, concentration, focus and stoic determination to stay at the crease for a long spell - look at Khawaja. Playing almost every delivery and then practically shrugging shoulders when you get out with an attitude of "well at least I tried" really isn't good enough. The accusations of carelessness and a sloppy approach are had to fend off when you look at both batting and catching, the concession of so many extras and the seemingly laissez faire response to setbacks.
What looked like fine margins in the first test now look like big problems.
And gone. Somehow managing to concede a nigh-on three figure deficit here. Congratulations everybody.
And gone. Somehow managing to concede a nigh-on three figure deficit here. Congratulations everybody.
Even with this piss poor batting display we'd have still had a lead if we could catch
Every single run is a bonus here but it all feels so desperate. Anything near their total will be welcome just to keep the series alive.
And gone. Somehow managing to concede a nigh-on three figure deficit here. Congratulations everybody.
Even with this piss poor batting display we'd have still had a lead if we could catch
How is Mark Wood not taking the new ball?
Robinson having the back spasm has really created a problem.
Moeen Ali is just a pisstake of a cricketer isn't he?
Our batting and fielding have been woeful this series. Not passed 400 once, dropped catches all over the place, no balls. The general standards have been well below par.
Given his ongoing ineptitude with bat and gloves, it's a bit rich Bairstow giving stick to Smith on his dismissal, he may be better to focus on his own game.
Given his ongoing ineptitude with bat and gloves, it's a bit rich Bairstow giving stick to Smith on his dismissal, he may be better to focus on his own game.
Was just about to post the same.
When he actually held a catch to get Kawaja out he was giving it large.
The way he’s playing I’d rather recall Alan Knott
To be honest at a couple of points today we looked gone, but we’re still in it. Need a big morning session to try and knock them over for 220 (lead) or less.
Our batting and fielding have been woeful this series. Not passed 400 once, dropped catches all over the place, no balls. The general standards have been well below par.
Compared to what we're like in the field with a white ball, this has been village standard. I can see us losing 5-0 without getting battered once at the hands of an Australian side that's decent, useful, but not one of their greatest.
To be honest at a couple of points today we looked gone, but we’re still in it. Need a big morning session to try and knock them over for 220 (lead) or less.
Depends on the pitch I suppose, but I still think we're in it if we are left 275 to chase. Would be a big ask, but could be possible.
I still back us, but if we can't find a way to win this one, I reckon this Aus team (after 22 years without a series win in England) have the quality, motivation and ruthlessness to push for a 5-0.Rory this is the thing.
We've grown accustomed to being embarrassed over there, but with all the good will in the world, losing by such a scoreline here would be entirely unacceptable.
We really need to find our fighting spirit.
Pitch it up!
You can always rely on a Villa fan.
Need to give these tailenders some treatment now, should we happen rap a couple of the hands so be it
You can always rely on a Villa fan.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Woakes is possibly the most underrated player of his generation. Averages 28 with the bat, 30 with the ball, good fielder, on all three boards at Lord's, Villa fan (and like all Villa fans he's good looking).
He's the absolute embodiment of the man you'd be happy for your daughter to bring home
You can always rely on a Villa fan.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Woakes is possibly the most underrated player of his generation. Averages 28 with the bat, 30 with the ball, good fielder, on all three boards at Lord's, Villa fan (and like all Villa fans he's good looking).
He was an Honorary Graduate at UOB in December, & he was genuinely the nicest bloke ever. He can do no wrong in my eyes!
Don’t like this.
8 overs, I’m going 9-3 at the close…Crawley to be out obvjust after playing a beautiful cover drive
Yep we’ve got a real chance now. Just need to take it this time.
As in worry about his ability to play 3 or an injury concern?
As in worry about his ability to play 3 or an injury concern?
Good point. I thought they meant an injury, but probably is because he looked like a rabbit on the M6.
Ridiculous putting him in at 3. Ho humYep made no sense at all.
Danger time for Crawley now.
Crawley every bloody time - 44 is not enough.
Crawley every bloody time - 44 is not enough.
Bet we'll lose another wicket before lunch... ::)
Sorry! I just hate being proved right!Bet we'll lose another wicket before lunch... ::)
Stop that!
Bet we'll lose another wicket before lunch... ::)
Root has been piss poor the last two games. It’s like that second innings dismissal in the first Test has scrambled his thinking.
Useless fat bastard.he is a bit too chunky to keep wicket
Useless fat bastard.Sorry but he's got to go now.
That's why he doesn't!Useless fat bastard.he is a bit too chunky to keep wicket
His attitude is fucking pathetic too. He was more interested in making an exaggerated point of grounding his bat at the end of an over than actually trying to build an innings.
Bairstow has lacked confidence. Both his keeping and batting have argueably cost us this series.Agree with the second bit, but he's come across as too sloppy and cocky; not lacking in confidence.
All players run into poor form. It's Bairstows attitude and not even being bothered to apply himself that gratesExpected more from him on his home ground.
All players run into poor form. It's Bairstows attitude and not even being bothered to apply himself that gratesTurning up as bulky as he is was hardly the best start.
I’ve no issue with Bairstow’s bullish attitude but he’s had a disastrous Ashes. He can’t carry on and I also think Crawley has been very lucky to have had such a long run.Agreed about Crawley.
I just can not sit down and watch this. Pacing around the garden picking up “litter” that’s not there😟I'm pacing the living room. LOL
I just can not sit down and watch this. Pacing around the garden picking up “litter” that’s not there😟
Would be justice if these two bring it home as it's because of them we have a chance
Would be justice if these two bring it home as it's because of them we have a chance100% they have both come back when needed and made a hell of a difference.
Would be justice if these two bring it home as it's because of them we have a chance
A good point well made Mr B.
Neither of them are mugs, just nurdle it down fellas.
Brook, Woakes, and Wood did fantastically.
They’ve got to look at Foakes for the next game.
I wouldn't be dropping Broad.
I'd hope Anderson plays for Lancs in their championship game, if not or if he struggles then I don't see why you'd bring him back. Either way Bairstow and Robinson out for Foakes and Jimmy/Tongue is the only change i'd be making. I'd probably stick with Mo at 3 though, I know it didn't work but I think the balance of the middle order looks better with him there.Good shout Paul.
In some ways Mo going to 3 helped win that game. Brook doesn’t play that knock if he come in at 3.Exactly what Agnew and Tufnell said as I wrote in my other post.
I'd hope Anderson plays for Lancs in their championship game, if not or if he struggles then I don't see why you'd bring him back. Either way Bairstow and Robinson out for Foakes and Jimmy/Tongue is the only change i'd be making. I'd probably stick with Mo at 3 though, I know it didn't work but I think the balance of the middle order looks better with him there.
I can not see any justification for Bairstow staying in the team.I don't think even the barmy army members wives will save him this time.
I have more than a sneaking suspicion he will though.
You could see the difference that Wood’s pace made. I’d have Tongue in for Robinson so we can unleash them in tandem. Foakes has to play but I suspect he’s not going to dislodge Bairstow.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
You could see the difference that Wood’s pace made. I’d have Tongue in for Robinson so we can unleash them in tandem. Foakes has to play but I suspect he’s not going to dislodge Bairstow.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
I'd say until this test the bowling as well, although not as big a difference as the fielding
You could see the difference that Wood’s pace made. I’d have Tongue in for Robinson so we can unleash them in tandem. Foakes has to play but I suspect he’s not going to dislodge Bairstow.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
I'd say until this test the bowling as well, although not as big a difference as the fielding
Their attack is better than ours but not by much. We’ve comfortably bowled them out across six innings apart from the last hour on day five at Edgbaston we have matched them.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
Bairstow will always get 2 or 3 more chances than anyone else. Which is all on the off-chance that he'll do That Thing and it'll all be worth it. Which is possibly justifiable - just must be incredibly annoying if you're Ben Foakes!
Bairstow will always get 2 or 3 more chances than anyone else. Which is all on the off-chance that he'll do That Thing and it'll all be worth it. Which is possibly justifiable - just must be incredibly annoying if you're Ben Foakes!
He's surely used up his 9 lives now though? I mean, he's still a good player, but he needs to not be keeping wicket, and he also very much needs to lose a few pounds. It's not darts mate.
Cant see it happening, only way I see it is if they leave a bowler out, maybe don't bring Anderson back in, or rest Broad - but still don't see it.Bairstow will always get 2 or 3 more chances than anyone else. Which is all on the off-chance that he'll do That Thing and it'll all be worth it. Which is possibly justifiable - just must be incredibly annoying if you're Ben Foakes!
He's surely used up his 9 lives now though? I mean, he's still a good player, but he needs to not be keeping wicket, and he also very much needs to lose a few pounds. It's not darts mate.
You'd think that would be step one. A decent fudge to help him 'concentrate on his batting' etc. The conundrum is, who do you drop for Foakes? I suppose Crawley, but I don't think they're about to do that.
England are a more complete team after switch made easier by Pope injury
As one of five bowlers, rather than four, pace of Wood offers the variety, and Woakes benefits from that
In 2018, England had a sequence of eight wins in nine matches, across home and away series.
In several of these victories, Ben Stokes’s role was different. He batted higher in the order (sometimes as high as No 3 or 4) and was one of six (not five) bowlers, with little or no expectation that he would bowl a significant number of overs. His bowling was viewed as a bonus. The all-rounder position was filled by one or sometimes two of Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali and Sam Curran.
The team structure looked like this: six batsmen (one of whom was Stokes), then five frontline bowlers, with enough batting ability across those five bowlers to make a significant collective contribution to the batting tally. England also used this team structure in the win against Australia in the fifth Test at the Oval in 2019, the victory over West Indies in the third Test in 2020, and in the first Test win against Pakistan in the same summer.
Sometimes, England had full volition and preferred this structure on principle (such as in the series win in Sri Lanka). In other instances, the hand was slightly forced by Stokes being hampered by injury.
All taken together, it ended up being an intriguing pattern, even allowing for a small sample size and the ever-present possibility of luck and coincidence. Across the three years when I was national selector, I don’t think England lost a Test match when Stokes played as a batsman or as one of six bowlers.
That formation, of course, is also the team structure for this Test match against Australia at Headingley. Stokes, after a spike in his bowling work load at Lord’s, was deemed not fit to play in the allrounder role, leading England to tweak the structure as well as the players.
Effectively, Woakes and Moeen Ali have come in for James Anderson and Ollie Pope (two all-round cricketers coming in for two specialists), with Mark Wood a more like-for-like swap for Josh Tongue. The switch in team formation was made easier by Pope being ruled out by injury, hence avoiding the need for a tough decision about which batsman to leave out.
A personal (and minority) view follows: on decent pitches, I think the present team formation looks better for a number of reasons.
First, the bowling has more variety. When England have access to genuine pace, as they do at Headingley through Wood, they look a far more complete team. As one of five bowlers, it’s easier to fit in a truly fast bowler (many of whom find high workload difficult) because there is less expectation that they will have to bang out overs.
The same principle applies to selecting a spinner — Ali for now, with Rehan Ahmed well placed in the future. With five bowlers to share the load, there is less anxiety about the spinner being required to bowl a high volume of overs in the first innings.
Overall, instead of the term “X-factor” — which pushes the ambition to possess “something different” onto one single player — a more useful concept is aspiring to a “varied attack” across the whole bowling unit. Variety takes many forms: different speeds, different angles, different release points. Among the most useful graphics of recent years emerged from Sky’s coverage of the England v New Zealand Test at Lord’s in 2021. England’s deliveries were mostly bowled from a similar release position on the crease, with New Zealand’s spread far more widely.
When batsmen are required to make adjustments for differing types of bowlers, they are more likely to make mistakes — to the benefit of the whole bowling unit.
Woakes has put in a strong bowling performance on his return here at Headingley. His record in England is exceptional — but he looks even better when Wood is bowling rockets as part of the same attack.
Except in seam-friendly conditions, England look less threatening when they select three right-hand fast-medium bowlers and a right-arm off spinner. Further, playing five bowlers plus Stokes is more sustainable. England know where they stand, over both the short and the medium term. One long bowl by the captain won’t force a selection headache around the corner.
Above all, this team formation plays to one of England’s strengths, which is having a high number of effective all-round cricketers. Ali has five Test hundreds. Woakes debuted as a No 6 batsman and has a Test hundred against India as a No 7. Curran, waiting in the wings to perform a similar role, has swung several Tests with both bat and ball.
In this particular match-up versus Australia, England have more bowling depth (a privilege they leaned on when Ollie Robinson was injured mid-match). And despite the extra bowler, England’s lower order shouldn’t be underestimated with the bat. In the first innings, Australia were 240 for five, then all out for 263.
In contrast, England were 87 for five and all out 237 — exactly the pattern of lower-order resistance that helped England to win many of those Tests in 2018.
There are two important riders to these arguments. First, the logic only applies to some groups of players. The West Indies team of the 1980s (just four quicks) or the Australia of the 1990s/2000s (three quicks and Shane Warne) had their own, different solutions. In the future, England may have different types of players in the squad, requiring distinct selection principles. Second, of course, though England have selected well here, there is no guarantee that they will win the Test. But over the long term it pushes the odds more in England’s favour.
The main difference between the two sides is the fielding, they are better than us in the field. If we were better at it we’d have just regained the Ashes. There isn’t much between the two sides otherwise.
It's odd as well, considering McCullum's limited overs success and the makeup of this side - which is effectively a ODI side that plays a bit of Test cricket now and again.
They should be razor sharp in the field.
As an aside Starc has been outstanding for Aus. Previously I always thought he was a bit erratic, but he’s been excellent.
Interesting article from former selector Ed Smith (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-look-a-more-complete-team-after-formation-switch-made-easier-by-pope-absence-t33slwx20) in the Times yesterday.QuoteEngland are a more complete team after switch made easier by Pope injury
As one of five bowlers, rather than four, pace of Wood offers the variety, and Woakes benefits from that
In 2018, England had a sequence of eight wins in nine matches, across home and away series.
In several of these victories, Ben Stokes’s role was different. He batted higher in the order (sometimes as high as No 3 or 4) and was one of six (not five) bowlers, with little or no expectation that he would bowl a significant number of overs. His bowling was viewed as a bonus. The all-rounder position was filled by one or sometimes two of Chris Woakes, Moeen Ali and Sam Curran.
The team structure looked like this: six batsmen (one of whom was Stokes), then five frontline bowlers, with enough batting ability across those five bowlers to make a significant collective contribution to the batting tally. England also used this team structure in the win against Australia in the fifth Test at the Oval in 2019, the victory over West Indies in the third Test in 2020, and in the first Test win against Pakistan in the same summer.
Sometimes, England had full volition and preferred this structure on principle (such as in the series win in Sri Lanka). In other instances, the hand was slightly forced by Stokes being hampered by injury.
All taken together, it ended up being an intriguing pattern, even allowing for a small sample size and the ever-present possibility of luck and coincidence. Across the three years when I was national selector, I don’t think England lost a Test match when Stokes played as a batsman or as one of six bowlers.
That formation, of course, is also the team structure for this Test match against Australia at Headingley. Stokes, after a spike in his bowling work load at Lord’s, was deemed not fit to play in the allrounder role, leading England to tweak the structure as well as the players.
Effectively, Woakes and Moeen Ali have come in for James Anderson and Ollie Pope (two all-round cricketers coming in for two specialists), with Mark Wood a more like-for-like swap for Josh Tongue. The switch in team formation was made easier by Pope being ruled out by injury, hence avoiding the need for a tough decision about which batsman to leave out.
A personal (and minority) view follows: on decent pitches, I think the present team formation looks better for a number of reasons.
First, the bowling has more variety. When England have access to genuine pace, as they do at Headingley through Wood, they look a far more complete team. As one of five bowlers, it’s easier to fit in a truly fast bowler (many of whom find high workload difficult) because there is less expectation that they will have to bang out overs.
The same principle applies to selecting a spinner — Ali for now, with Rehan Ahmed well placed in the future. With five bowlers to share the load, there is less anxiety about the spinner being required to bowl a high volume of overs in the first innings.
Overall, instead of the term “X-factor” — which pushes the ambition to possess “something different” onto one single player — a more useful concept is aspiring to a “varied attack” across the whole bowling unit. Variety takes many forms: different speeds, different angles, different release points. Among the most useful graphics of recent years emerged from Sky’s coverage of the England v New Zealand Test at Lord’s in 2021. England’s deliveries were mostly bowled from a similar release position on the crease, with New Zealand’s spread far more widely.
When batsmen are required to make adjustments for differing types of bowlers, they are more likely to make mistakes — to the benefit of the whole bowling unit.
Woakes has put in a strong bowling performance on his return here at Headingley. His record in England is exceptional — but he looks even better when Wood is bowling rockets as part of the same attack.
Except in seam-friendly conditions, England look less threatening when they select three right-hand fast-medium bowlers and a right-arm off spinner. Further, playing five bowlers plus Stokes is more sustainable. England know where they stand, over both the short and the medium term. One long bowl by the captain won’t force a selection headache around the corner.
Above all, this team formation plays to one of England’s strengths, which is having a high number of effective all-round cricketers. Ali has five Test hundreds. Woakes debuted as a No 6 batsman and has a Test hundred against India as a No 7. Curran, waiting in the wings to perform a similar role, has swung several Tests with both bat and ball.
In this particular match-up versus Australia, England have more bowling depth (a privilege they leaned on when Ollie Robinson was injured mid-match). And despite the extra bowler, England’s lower order shouldn’t be underestimated with the bat. In the first innings, Australia were 240 for five, then all out for 263.
In contrast, England were 87 for five and all out 237 — exactly the pattern of lower-order resistance that helped England to win many of those Tests in 2018.
There are two important riders to these arguments. First, the logic only applies to some groups of players. The West Indies team of the 1980s (just four quicks) or the Australia of the 1990s/2000s (three quicks and Shane Warne) had their own, different solutions. In the future, England may have different types of players in the squad, requiring distinct selection principles. Second, of course, though England have selected well here, there is no guarantee that they will win the Test. But over the long term it pushes the odds more in England’s favour.
No Ashes tests in the North in 2027, ridiculous.
No Ashes tests in the North in 2027, ridiculous.
Crawley, Duckett, Stokes, Root, Brook, Foakes, Ali, Woakes, Wood, Broad, Tongue
I’m not sure I see Foakes as a 6. I also think Stokes at 3 probably significantly risks him being in very early and being exposed.
I’m not sure I see Foakes as a 6. I also think Stokes at 3 probably significantly risks him being in very early and being exposed.
In Risso's line-up, Ali could bat 6 and Foakes at 7. Or Ali at 3, Stokes at 6 and Foakes at 7.
Edgbaston should always be an Ashes ground.No Ashes tests in the North in 2027, ridiculous.
I think they should alternate each Ashes series. So one time 2 tests in North, 2 in Midlands and 1 in London. Next time 2 Oop North, 1 Midlands, 2 London; then 1 North, 2 Mids and 2 London, in rotation.
But they'd never only have 1 test in London.
I'd happily not have a test at Lords, we have a crap record there after all
I suspect it’s the same team swapping Jimmy for Robinson. I’m largely fine with that, provided Jimmy looks a hell of a lot sharper. I would have swapped out Bairstow but they were always unlikely to do that. The one positive with him is that he had such a bad game at Headingly we’re almost inevitably going to see a net gain in performance from him.
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The ICC isn't fit for purpose. Any sport where a nation can qualify for the world cup and then have to put out a message like this: https://twitter.com/KNCBInsider/status/1678223343693217793?s=20 - is in desperate need of a reorganisation.
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The problem is Paul is that outside of a couple of countries, there doesn't seem to be much of an interest in test cricket. Even in Australia, the drop off in crowds after day one of a lot of games is stark.
That means that it actually costs countries to host test cricket in a lot of cases which obviously means they are going to be reluctant. When you factor in that the riches of playing franchise cricket far outweigh those of test matches, then it means the former is more appealing to many players. Play in an empty stadium for five days for a fraction of the money you can earn playing for 3 hours at at time. Then there is also the physical toll test cricket takes on players, which isn't so much of an issue in T20.
With all that to consider I'm not really sure what the ICC can do and whether the reality is that it's just trying to hold back the tide of T20 completely taking the game over.
Weather's looking a bit shit next week, hope the Aussies don't win the Ashes by default.
Yeah that’s the thing. This is why there needs to be a grown up conversation about the cricket landscape. The ICC should be doing all they can to protect Test cricket, but that means focussing on those nations that are struggling.
The problem is Paul is that outside of a couple of countries, there doesn't seem to be much of an interest in test cricket. Even in Australia, the drop off in crowds after day one of a lot of games is stark.
That means that it actually costs countries to host test cricket in a lot of cases which obviously means they are going to be reluctant. When you factor in that the riches of playing franchise cricket far outweigh those of test matches, then it means the former is more appealing to many players. Play in an empty stadium for five days for a fraction of the money you can earn playing for 3 hours at at time. Then there is also the physical toll test cricket takes on players, which isn't so much of an issue in T20.
With all that to consider I'm not really sure what the ICC can do and whether the reality is that it's just trying to hold back the tide of T20 completely taking the game over.
Yes but the ICC are absolutely complicit in that loss of interest in Test cricket. England might be the exception in terms of interest, but as demonstrated by this series there is nothing more compelling in cricket than good Test cricket. It’s not going to be possible to change overnight but if you create financial support to strengthen development then the quality and competition goes up. Then you would see more interest, which then drives in more revenue.
The problem is the ICC have just let it drift.
In my opinion, Test cricket is the pinnacle of all abstract invention. Its persistence and indefatigable capability of generating scenes and emotions like those seen and felt already this summer is as close as you'll ever get to proof of existence of the human soul. Ergo, anybody that doesn't 'get' it is, frankly, dead inside.
Great game today. A century from NSB, but England couldn’t quite get there.
Aus win the W-Ashes
Shame England lost that and Aus retain the Ashes, but hopefully they can still win the ODIs.
I hope that he does, if he bowls well then with that attack we should win the test but on the flip side our record against the Aussies at Old Trafford is shocking, I don’t think we’ve beaten them there since Botham’s Ashes in 1981.
If Jimmy Anderson can't find some form bowling from the Jimmy Anderson End after being dropped for under-performing then I suspect we might be witnessing his last test or 2.
If Jimmy Anderson can't find some form bowling from the Jimmy Anderson End after being dropped for under-performing then I suspect we might be witnessing his last test or 2.
I think it might be his last test anyway Paul, especially if we lose. Think he will struggle to play back-to-back games and it would be so what fitting if he finished at Old Trafford.
I do think it is a bit of a sentimental pick to be honest as Broad and Woakes opening with Wood and Tongue providing pace options as support looks a better balance on paper.
Stunning win from England.
Think we'll need a result in three days here looking at the forecast
It wasn't a chance but Bairstow not taking the catch from that one that flicked Warners pad showed just how poor a keeper he is in my opinion.
Broad gets his 599th wicket with Kawaja LBW on review. It'd be apt for Warner to become his 600th!That would be hilarious, but fair play to Warner he has massively contributed to Broad's numbers.
Need to rattle through a few more.I have a feeling Paul you would love Aussies to be 49 all out? Actually so would I ;D
Need to rattle through a few more.I have a feeling Paul you would love Aussies to be 49 all out? Actually so would I ;D
It wasn't a chance but Bairstow not taking the catch from that one that flicked Warners pad showed just how poor a keeper he is in my opinion.
I thought that. Like you say, not a chance, but if you're dropping that you're dropping proper chances at some stage.
It wasn't a chance but Bairstow not taking the catch from that one that flicked Warners pad showed just how poor a keeper he is in my opinion.
I thought that. Like you say, not a chance, but if you're dropping that you're dropping proper chances at some stage.
Just dropped another straightforward one. He looks hapless.
Need to rattle through a few more.I have a feeling Paul you would love Aussies to be 49 all out? Actually so would I ;D
Woakes gets Warner, 61-2
Woakes gets Warner, 61-2
Boooooooo! Maybe second innings then for Broad.
Woakes gets Warner, 61-2
Boooooooo! Maybe second innings then for Broad.
Im happy that the Villa fan is in there amongst the wickets!
600 for Broad, well done son.
Annoyingly Marsh is taking this match away from England.
On this showing in the last 2 test I reckon not picking Woakes for the first 2 is probably the difference between us being 2-1 down instead of 3-0 up. He's always delivers at home for England, quite why the selectors refuse to take that into account I don't know.
On this showing in the last 2 test I reckon not picking Woakes for the first 2 is probably the difference between us being 2-1 down instead of 3-0 up. He's always delivers at home for England, quite why the selectors refuse to take that into account I don't know.
One of two or three decisions that don't look great, eg picking Anderson for this. Also sticking with Bairstow, even allowing for that outstanding catch today, it doesn't make up for all the chances he's put down.
Eight wickets down isn't too bad at the end of day 1. Apart from it being a must win, likely shortened match.
I know this is being said over and over but it really has been a tremendous series. These two teams are so evenly matched.
It would be a shame if we lost 2 days from this one, not just because I want an oval showdown, but because they are so evenly matched it would be a shame to see a draw in a game that would have got a resultEight wickets down isn't too bad at the end of day 1. Apart from it being a must win, likely shortened match.
I know this is being said over and over but it really has been a tremendous series. These two teams are so evenly matched.
I'm actually quite glad we were saved the prospect of having to watch Crawley try to survive for half an hour this evening,
It's going to be a wash out Saturday, and quite possibly Sunday, so a win is going to be very hard to come by. Need to wrap them up inside an hour tomorrow morning, then really just go Bazball Max. Get some sort of lead as quickly as poss, declare, then get into them again. Even that might not be enough, but a draw's no good so may as well go for it.
The way Wokes has bowled since coming back it looks like a mistake not playing him in the first two tests, especially given the first was at his home groundIsn't he a superb team man and so effective when given the chance but totally underrated. A sort of James Milner of cricket.
THAT WAS NOT A NO BALL. Woakes denied his 5th by a bad call.
The way Wokes has bowled since coming back it looks like a mistake not playing him in the first two tests, especially given the first was at his home groundIsn't he a superb team man and so effective when given the chance but totally underrated. A sort of James Milner of cricket.
The way Wokes has bowled since coming back it looks like a mistake not playing him in the first two tests, especially given the first was at his home groundIsn't he a superb team man and so effective when given the chance but totally underrated. A sort of James Milner of cricket.
It's a shame that his career coincided with a pair of bowlers who have taken almost 1,300 test wickets between them.
I met him back in May at a Hockley Social Club thing, he really is a lovely guy.
Mo batting nicely now.Exactly. I worry when he starts flowing.
Almost certain to be out in the next 2 overs now I've said that.
That 4 Moeen got from Cummins first delivery after Lunch was just beautiful, perfect cover drive. He then showed he's still the Moeen we know and love by wafting a nothing shot at the next one.
That 4 Moeen got from Cummins first delivery after Lunch was just beautiful, perfect cover drive. He then showed he's still the Moeen we know and love by wafting a nothing shot at the next one.
Got to love him, cricket is never dull when Mo is involved.
That 4 Moeen got from Cummins first delivery after Lunch was just beautiful, perfect cover drive. He then showed he's still the Moeen we know and love by wafting a nothing shot at the next one.
Got to love him, cricket is never dull when Mo is involved.
The one player for whom Bazball wasn't much of a change!
Glad to see we're going after the spinner, I'm absolutely in favour of us making their decision to go with 5 seamers look fucking stupid.
Moeen gone but I think he's done the job he was there for and fully justified them sticking with him at 3.
Think the accelerator is gradually being pressed….get to tea no more than 3 down we should be less than 100 behind
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
Think the accelerator is gradually being pressed….get to tea no more than 3 down we should be less than 100 behind
I said earlier that 200+ by tea would be the target and that lines up with how we're batting. If we make that with 6-7 wickets in hand and we can go full on t20 after tea and trying to flash 100 runs in 10-12 overs before putting them in for a nasty little spell this evening.
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
Think the accelerator is gradually being pressed….get to tea no more than 3 down we should be less than 100 behind
I said earlier that 200+ by tea would be the target and that lines up with how we're batting. If we make that with 6-7 wickets in hand and we can go full on t20 after tea and trying to flash 100 runs in 10-12 overs before putting them in for a nasty little spell this evening.
Really does depend on the forecast I suppose Paul, but I would be tempted to try and get as many as possible today and even early tomorrow and try and get as big a lead as we can.
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
Lyon is a massive loss for them. Him bowling tight overs from one end while they rotate the seamers from the other is their approach. The seamers are now having to do a lot more work and it is now starting to show.
Let's just get the lead first!
Let's just get the lead first!
That's my point, I'm not sure we will, if we could get to 5pm and be within touching distance of them we might well declare and push to get them out as quickly as we can and see if we can make a chase before the rain comes.
What an amazing session for England, 239-2 at tea. 178 runs in the session is phenomenal scoring
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
Lyon is a massive loss for them. Him bowling tight overs from one end while they rotate the seamers from the other is their approach. The seamers are now having to do a lot more work and it is now starting to show.
We lost Leach too. As important as Moeen has been thus far, he’d be playing for the Bears if Leach was fit.
Lyon is a top player but they’re paying the price of selecting him at the expense of the development of other players. Even Stuart MacGill took 200 plus test wickets and he shadowed Warne.
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
What an amazing session for England, 239-2 at tea. 178 runs in the session is phenomenal scoring
I truly would not like to be sat near the top of that temporary stand.
Right now this is what I think the point of bazball is, we're got them doubting their plans for how to bowl at us and we're milking runs because of it, Cummins is all over the place with the ball right now. I reckon this is exactly what we were trying to do at Lords but we just made a mess of it.
But I think that's where a bit of the criticism comes in. We absolutely have to blatter them out of the park here otherwise our chances of winning with the weather forecast are slim. We didn't need to be quite so gung ho at Lords, and a lot of the team were out to just plain bad shots. The overall approach is undoubtedly the right one, but sometimes it just needs tempering due to the conditions. The Woakes innings that won us the match in the last match was a case in point.
We're less than 30 behind with 2 down, thoughts are surely turning to not having to bat again here
In these conditions that would be mental. We have to be cognisant of the weather, but declaring tonight would be daft.
Can see both viewpoints ref declaring tonight but I think we would probably have gone harder after tea were we looking to declare before the close
Can see both viewpoints ref declaring tonight but I think we would probably have gone harder after tea were we looking to declare before the close
They've gone pretty hard to be fair.
Can see both viewpoints ref declaring tonight but I think we would probably have gone harder after tea were we looking to declare before the close
They've gone pretty hard to be fair.
No, they're crawling along at just 6 an over since tea
Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Went low, not a bad sign for us.
Batting has definitely been considerably more difficult for Brook and Stokes. Some cloud cover tomorrow and more inconsistent bounce we will have a real chance
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
I think we’ve got that spot on. We’ll launch an assault tomorrow morning.
There’s something very Dennis Wise about Labuschagne.
I don’t mean that as a compliment.
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
It looked pretty genuine on TV. The series has been played in a good spirit and Pat Cummins is the most likeable Aussie captain for many years.
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
... Pat Cummins is the most likeable Aussie captain for many years.
I don't buy that. It's a cheap attempt to win back "spirit of the game" ethos that they have completely destroyed.Good the see the Aussies applauding him.
Most of them ran up and shook his hand too.
... Pat Cummins is the most likeable Aussie captain for many years.
It's not a high bar is it, in fairness.
Knocking a few quick runs and losing Brook might help, this situation is tailor made for Bairstow to come in and smash a two run a ball 70 or so
Knocking a few quick runs and losing Brook might help, this situation is tailor made for Bairstow to come in and smash a two run a ball 70 or so
What we thinking try and get 180 ahead by about 12.30 and get them in for 20 minutes before lunch?
Agree Paul, those low bouncing balls were eyes light up time for Woakes and Jimmy. Listening to Crawley last night seemed to suggest they only want to bat once…but can’t go on too longWhat we thinking try and get 180 ahead by about 12.30 and get them in for 20 minutes before lunch?
Who knows, I think I'd go for another half hour and see where things are. Having batted this morning though I suspect we'll want a lead of 150 or more. I'd be keeping an eye out for any balls misbehaving though, late on yesterday there was a lot of variation in the bounce, if that is still there and we're under clouds, Woakes could be destructive.
A declaration by lunch is important as I would rather have England needing to bat to get say 100 runs on Sunday than waiting for 3 Australian wickets in the last session. There will be no play tomorrow but Sunday could be Ok in patches.
Extremely useful 51 from the Skip. He's annoyed with himself but if the whole team got that we'd get 561 all out, so you know, it's a definite contribution.
Game is in a bit of a lull right now. Listening to the Australians on comms trying to act like this is a good morning for them is pretty funny.
This ia all surprisingly pedestrian.They are letting Australians manage the run rate.
I’d get them out for an over or two just so they can’t settle mentally over lunch.
I'd let Bairstow have a blast for 20 mins after lunch, declaring now gives them lunch to prepare. Make them toil a bit more first.
I think the best hope is only batting once, so there’s a trade off. If it goes rain for two days the odds of us having time to bowl them out is minimal anyway. Might not work, but I get the balance they’re trying to strike.
I think we've given up too much time here, runs on the board is great but taking 10 wickets is more important, I hope they're not waiting for Bairstow to get a hundred so they use it to justify picking him.
Bairstow running on dot balls is really funny given the context of Lords incident.
We may or may not win the ashes, but any opportunity to do this to that mob should be taken.
If we can see it over the line, you have to say the momentum is with us for the Oval... I've day 3 tickets... so fingers crossed!
The weather for Sunday is now forecast to be as bad as for tomorrow. Looks to me as if the intention here was/is to ensure we gain as big a moral victory as possible, hopefully before actually levelling the series in the final test.
The weather for Sunday is now forecast to be as bad as for tomorrow. Looks to me as if the intention here was/is to ensure we gain as big a moral victory as possible, hopefully before actually levelling the series in the final test.
Khawaja has wasted a review in both of his innings.Yes, good man. His dismissals are worth two wickets.
I believe to declare or not to declare may well mean Ashes are lost. Wrong to declare at Edgbaston and wrong not to declare shortly after lunch today. Time is of premium in this match and England may have blown it.
Indeed. The big issue was more time in better conditions to make Aussies stay out. On sunday they will have lot of excuses not to come out.I believe to declare or not to declare may well mean Ashes are lost. Wrong to declare at Edgbaston and wrong not to declare shortly after lunch today. Time is of premium in this match and England may have blown it.
As I've been moaning about all morning how many runs we got was irrelevant if we can't take 10 wickets, that was the 'known' this morning. How many runs we'd need to not pad up again was guesswork and, in my view, they've gone 100ish runs higher than we needed to.
That was a better catch than the one Smith claimed and was given against India in the Oval match.
That was a better catch than the one Smith claimed and was given against India in the Oval match.
Yes, looked to me as if his right hand had scooped up the ball into his two hands, without the ball hitting the ground.
Anderson just hasn't looked threatening, definitely needs to call it a day now.
If we can get 3 hours worth of cricket then we will win. I think Sunday will be OK weather wise
One thing that's impossible to deny: that England have taken a team, whatever the weather considerations there might be, that many said were simply better than them man-for-man after the first two tests, and have absolutely kicked the shit out of them in this match. This scorecard looks honestly like what you'd expect from India against Bangladesh. A fantastic effort.100% great work - and good to see faith being repaid - potentially when it matters most. I hope we get enough more play for us to have a decent go - otherwise it will always be a what if
One thing that's impossible to deny: that England have taken a team, whatever the weather considerations there might be, that many said were simply better than them man-for-man after the first two tests, and have absolutely kicked the shit out of them in this match. This scorecard looks honestly like what you'd expect from India against Bangladesh. A fantastic effort.
Assuming the draw, this should be an Ashes retention with a big asterisk next to it. Absolute devastating shame that this series won't get the ending it deserves.
Yep. It's been a fantastic series and England have played some sublime stuff. But my enthusiasm is more than slightly offset by that.Assuming the draw, this should be an Ashes retention with a big asterisk next to it. Absolute devastating shame that this series won't get the ending it deserves.
Even worse that we’ve largely chucked it away in the first two matches.
Rain to stop by 12.
Play to resume at 1.
2 hour window of weather to get 6 wickets.
Actually looking at the met office - think Jons prediction is probably are best chance - does look to be a window this afternoonRain to stop by 12.
Play to resume at 1.
2 hour window of weather to get 6 wickets.
Think that’s optimistic Jon, there is always tomorrow though.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcw25uekz#?date=2023-07-22
hmm - there saying it will take a least 2 hours to get the ground ready for play when the rain stops. Assume because of the amount of rain there has been? Normally doesnt take as long as that.
So I think were pretty much screwed.
hmm - there saying it will take a least 2 hours to get the ground ready for play when the rain stops. Assume because of the amount of rain there has been? Normally doesnt take as long as that.
So I think were pretty much screwed.
Groundsmen are out.
Groundsmen are out.
Are the Old Trafford covers not up to much?
If there’s no more rain they are going to inspect at 2pm. I’m not hopeful of play today but tomorrow is a different story.
If there’s no more rain they are going to inspect at 2pm. I’m not hopeful of play today but tomorrow is a different story.
Really? Weather looks terrible tomorrow doesn’t it?
They tipped a load of water on to the pitch when removing one of the covers the clumsy Manc twats.Aussie in disguise
I'm far from an expert in cricket, and my knowledge of engineering is so non-existent that, really, it's anti-knowledge. That said, it's now time for me to share with the world a question about cricket/engineering: why can't they have some kind of circus-style big top (without the sides) that gets erected when it's raining so they can crack on with the game?
But it wouldn't be indoors if there are no sides on my lovely big top.
But it wouldn't be indoors if there are no sides on my lovely big top.The scientific answer is it’s just. Not. Cricket.
To Andy Burnham after his recent plea for Ashes tests for Manchester, this is why it’s a bad idea.
As I said great decision to keep going with the spinners :-)You're a genius Gareth. Thank you. :)
Labuschange is a cheating, eyes too close together arsehole. He knew he'd hit, why not do the decent thing eh?Yes but he's Australians, what about the no decision from umpire, Menon (?)?
Great bowling and smart catch. Come on England.
Labuschange is a cheating, eyes too close together arsehole. He knew he'd hit, why not do the decent thing eh?Yes but he's Australians, what about the no decision from umpire, Menon (?)?
Great bowling and smart catch. Come on England.
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
Too an extent, but to be fair a lot of it was down to Australia batting really well.
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
(https://i.ibb.co/bPVmZGq/Tea.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPVmZGq)
The weather is going to retain them the Ashes isn't it? Jammy fuckers, the momentum is all with England since we starting playing sensibly.
Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
(https://i.ibb.co/bPVmZGq/Tea.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPVmZGq)
See, people give footy stick, but I'm here to show you all what happens when somebody genuinely irritating starts piping up!
Good point, well made by you role playing😊Another cricket ignoramus question: why the fuck are they stopping for tea?! They've only been playing for two hours - could they not have had a bigger lunch?OMG you are a proper cricket heathen SE. Dissing tea is a stoning offence. Tea is an enormous event at a cricket match. All over England today tea is being served with cucumber sandwiches. Sometimes it's the main reason to turn up for a match.
(https://i.ibb.co/bPVmZGq/Tea.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPVmZGq)
See, people give footy stick, but I'm here to show you all what happens when somebody genuinely irritating starts piping up!
Yeah although the weather looks bloody dreadful, so sadly I think it’s done.It looked the same today - so maybe, just maybe we can get another slice of luck
Thing is even if we get on when a team knows it’ll only be on go for a short time it’s quite easy to dig in. I think it takes something special for us to win this.
That’s why I keep saying it would have been better for England to declare at lunch on day 3 and concentrate on taking 10 wickets. If Aussies were all out now with say 100 lead that would be easier to get today than 5 wickets.Thing is even if we get on when a team knows it’ll only be on go for a short time it’s quite easy to dig in. I think it takes something special for us to win this.
Even if we get a dry window light will be an issue as we saw yesterday.
Has anyone heard what’s up with Woakes? He was off most of yesterday …
Nah I still think the decision to get the runs was the right call.
Nah I still think the decision to get the runs was the right call.
I'm with Aftab but I get that we're just not going to agree on this.
My worry all along was about giving ourselves enough time to take 20 wickets, and I still think we're going to struggle to do that because we took too much time out of the game trying to ensure we wouldn't need to bat again. As I said on Thursday/Friday I wouldn't have even gone to lunch, I'd have planned to declare around midday and have aimed for a lead of 120-150, every over we played after that felt like it was taking time away from the critical job of bowling them out again.
Well done Manchester and your shit weather. It's going to cost us the ashes. I wouldn't give them another Ashes test. Manc twats.The good news is they won't get a Test in the 2027 Ashes.
Well done Manchester and your shit weather. It's going to cost us the ashes. I wouldn't give them another Ashes test. Manc twats.
Yeah - as much as I would love to blame them, I think we have had enough opportunities in this series to not be praying for good weather. The mad hooking at lords and the declaration on Edgbaston being two areas where we let ourselves down.Well done Manchester and your shit weather. It's going to cost us the ashes. I wouldn't give them another Ashes test. Manc twats.
Think the first 2 tests lack of performance was much more a factor. Weather is always a factor in test cricket and can’t be controlled, piss poor performances are controllable though
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
Raze their accursed city to the ground and disperse permanently.
I genuinely don’t get the lunch thing. IF the pitch wasn’t ready and it needed 40 mins fair enough. But if it was purely for lunch it’s ridiculous.I think it was because the it needed an extra 40 minutes
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
Raze their accursed city to the ground and disperse permanently.
They'd still try to claim it was the UK's second biggest city.
Morgan Rees: Genuinely surprised we play any cricket in this country. Play can only start at 11:00 when it's light from 7am, need at least 30 minutes of no rain before a pitch inspection, then 45 minutes no rain before play starts. Then one drop and we start all over again.
Ash Hague: Cricket must look absolutely ridiculous to those looking in. Taking teams off before 90 overs are bowled in good weather, not starting early on the good days when you always lose time later, and of course they must have a full lunch.
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?
Raze their accursed city to the ground and disperse permanently.
They'd still try to claim it was the UK's second biggest city.
It'd definitely one of the shittest cities, and absolutely contains two of the world's most Cuntish football teams
What would you suggest the people of Manchester do about weather?Take responsibility for their sinful deeds and flock to churches, mosques, temples and breweries and ask for forgiveness.
The thing I was thinking as a test "day" never get through the overs, and if its clear that the bad weather is coming, surely they can accommodate a bit of extra play on the days that are ok - up to the 90 over mark
Might also increase the over-rates
Point of order I’ve heard the Oval referenced as being a dead rubber, but that’s not true.
Point of order I’ve heard the Oval referenced as being a dead rubber, but that’s not true.How random - literally said this to my wife a second ago - I then had to explain to her what a dead rubber was. She assumed it was a used durex.
England have failed to reclaim the Ashes due in part at least to the following:
- Dropping too many catches/fielding/keeping too badly at important times
- Sticking with Anderson too long
- Possibly declaring too quickly at Lords, and not being Bazball enough in Manchester.
- Not playing Woakes early enough
England have failed to reclaim the Ashes due in part at least to the following:Think thats pretty fair - Robinson & Anderson offered so little this series - we look a different bowling attack with Woods and Woakes
- Dropping too many catches/fielding/keeping too badly at important times
- Sticking with Anderson too long
- Possibly declaring too quickly at Lords, and not being Bazball enough in Manchester.
- Not playing Woakes early enough
I think the England style of play is the most exciting seen in test cricket.So do I! That's why I'm really looking forward to the last test. A drawn series isn't a disgrace. I'm not bothered about who gets to keep the Ashes.
Yeah but let’s remember for all those points we’ve had the number 1 side in the world clinging on and literally being saved by obliteration by the weather. To do that is impressive. Hopefully we can get the luck we haven’t had in this game, because we hammer them there and it’ll be the weakest Ashe’s retention ever.
The biggest failing for me is I think we went into the series undercooked. The preparation wasn’t good enough.
Really hope we stick it to them next week, the cheating, spawny wankersIf cricket did banners this would be it
Hopefully we’ll dominate and win at the Oval - whatever ever we say about those mistakes, we have played the best Test side in the world and for a decision points and some better weather we could easily be 4-0. Australia are the side hanging on, and we need to take the learnings and then take them out on their patch.I think thats a good summary - we need more variantion in the bowling which Woakes and wood provided. Robinson coming back from an injury and (maybe) anderson and mo being at the end. I think its probably a bit more of an evolution over the next few years to get ready for the Ashes in Oz.
The tricky thing for us is we’ve got to do a fair bit of transition, mainly in the bowling attack. It was an old attack this week. We also need to see if Stokes’ knee is something fixable.
Woakes exceptional performances have shown he needs to play, and equally that an all rounder is required at 8 even if Stokes can bowl. I could imagine Sam Curran being Woakes’ back up.
Do the ECB have jurisdiction over either of those? Genuine question.
I think it's reasonable to take a break after 2 and 1/2 hours play. It's not about drinking tea.Do the ECB have jurisdiction over either of those? Genuine question.I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Therefore ‘tea’ should be taken on the pitch in the form of energy drinks, energy gels and hydration, maybe a rub down from a masseuse, why is there a need to leave the field for an hour?Tea is always 20 minutes not an hour. Lunch is 40 mins.
Therefore ‘tea’ should be taken on the pitch in the form of energy drinks, energy gels and hydration, maybe a rub down from a masseuse, why is there a need to leave the field for an hour?Tea is always 20 minutes not an hour. Lunch is 40 mins.
I'm thinking of the same thing Mr Beard.You both need to start planning. Next Ashes series in Australia is scheduled Nov 25 to Jan 26.
I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Also need to get rid of that shitty, little trophy and have a proper cup for the series. Something with a bit more bling to appeal to a younger audience.
Point of order I’ve heard the Oval referenced as being a dead rubber, but that’s not true.
I've heard a few people saying things along these lines but its a daft argument. Yes England won't be able to regain the Ashes but there is a massive difference between winning/losing a Test series and drawing one. Australia haven't won a test series in England since 2001 and that alone is a massive incentive for both teams in the last test
Pointless keeping Anderson in the squad, never mind in the XI. Tongue needs to play in his place.
I suppose the ICC would have an overall say, surely they can see the benefit of a reserve day, the ECB should take the lead for a change and as for tea, fucking hell, hello the 21st century, grown men in a pavilion taking tea? Get over it and move on.
Also need to get rid of that shitty, little trophy and have a proper cup for the series. Something with a bit more bling to appeal to a younger audience.
Yes. I’m with you on that, some big ass bling.
Pointless keeping Anderson in the squad, never mind in the XI. Tongue needs to play in his place.
Agreed, a very poor performance from him this series.
4 wickets in three matches, so not even one wicket an innings on average. 114 overs bowled, and in that time he's got one top order batsman out, Labuschagne. His other three wickets have been bowlers and Carey.
He's being picked on repuation and out of loyalty.
I still think Tongue not getting selected in that game was down to the tight turnaround as much as anything.Agreed, suspect they thought he’d struggle to keep up his pace with that turnaround…. had they not got to fit in that pointless, useless, pathetic hundred BS comp they might have played the tests in a proper schedule
I think it was Ashley Giles on the wireless this morning saying early starts won’t work for test cricket and then went on to say that a 0930 start in England means a 0830 start in India and that wouldn’t work. I have no idea why he thinks that.
Who the fuck is going to sit there for eight hours straight? It's not just about the players.
I think it was Ashley Giles on the wireless this morning saying early starts won’t work for test cricket and then went on to say that a 0930 start in England means a 0830 start in India and that wouldn’t work. I have no idea why he thinks that.
Hollyoaks is on at 8:30 in India, surely that's enough to put you off your breakfast?I think it was Ashley Giles on the wireless this morning saying early starts won’t work for test cricket and then went on to say that a 0930 start in England means a 0830 start in India and that wouldn’t work. I have no idea why he thinks that.
Apparently in the 2005 series, the start time was moved to 10.30am so that Channel 4 could have Hollyoaks on at its normal time.
England unchanged….can’t help but think Anderson is a sentimental pick based on form…hope I’m wrong and he takes 10 in the match. Good that
Woakes seems to recovered from whatever kept him off the pitch
The venues for the tour in India are a bit weird. Purposely keeping it out of the main hubs - what’s behind that?Economic development, distributing income elsewhere.
England unchanged….can’t help but think Anderson is a sentimental pick based on form…hope I’m wrong and he takes 10 in the match. Good that
Woakes seems to recovered from whatever kept him off the pitch
Yep, the Anderson selection is difficult to defend really and points to a culture of sentimentality and stubborness. Wouldn't be surprised if he carries on after this test to try and get to 700 wickets.
The venues for the tour in India are a bit weird. Purposely keeping it out of the main hubs - what’s behind that?Economic development, distributing income elsewhere.
England unchanged….can’t help but think Anderson is a sentimental pick based on form…hope I’m wrong and he takes 10 in the match. Good that
Woakes seems to recovered from whatever kept him off the pitch
Yep, the Anderson selection is difficult to defend really and points to a culture of sentimentality and stubborness. Wouldn't be surprised if he carries on after this test to try and get to 700 wickets.
Will be an interesting squad (particularly bowlers) to go to India, I thought if it had gone 3-0 he might have retired at Old Trafford…also wouldn’t be surprised if he goes to India after 700.
I think Anderson is getting his swansong. The last test won't now win the Ashes, so the pressure isn't on.The pressure IS on. It's very important not to lose series.
I think Anderson is getting his swansong. The last test won't now win the Ashes, so the pressure isn't on.
His stats aren't particularly great though he is the best economy wise and second only to Robinson in numbers of maidens bowled across all bowlers in the series.
I think Anderson is getting his swansong.If that's behind his selection (and I can't really think of any other reason, off hand), it's an outrageous decision for a national sports team.
I think Anderson is getting his swansong. The last test won't now win the Ashes, so the pressure isn't on.The pressure IS on. It's very important not to lose series.
Sentiment should play no part in Sport short of friendlies and testimonials, it should always be based on form and the development of future players. But we see it time and time again, particularly where the England football side is concerned.
I think this is far from lost. We could easily get up around 300 still and I think this pitch is tricky.
Those comments by Bairstow about proving people wrong in the last test now sound hollow and he appears to have proved people right. He was excellent in the last test but better let that speak for itself rather than make yourself look a plum. That being said, the conditions are tough.
Mo’s injury is a blow.
Although I totally think Mo is done for this match…..if….he got on the field in the morning does he have to wait for the amount of overs he was off today before bowling?Yeah - same happened with Woakes(?) in the last test. As you say think hes done, apart from a maybe a lyon style batting performance if we need it
Moeen must be wondering why the feck he bothered taking Stokes' phone callEspecially if it rules him out of the World Cup.
Moeen must be wondering why the feck he bothered taking Stokes' phone callPersonal landmark of getting 3000/200 double is pretty nice I guess
Leach isn't looking too good either for the WC so it's going to be tough playing without spinners over there.Moeen must be wondering why the feck he bothered taking Stokes' phone callEspecially if it rules him out of the World Cup.
Tuffers - “I fancy Anderson to do really well on this wicket.”Terrible, unprofessional decision from England management to stick with James. Some very poor selection decisions have contributed to Ashes being kept by Aussies.
Distinct lack of wickets from James Anderson.
Tuffers - “I fancy Anderson to do really well on this wicket.”Terrible, unprofessional decision from England management to stick with James. Some very poor selection decisions have contributed to Ashes being kept by Aussies.
Distinct lack of wickets from James Anderson.
Odd one with Anderson. Coming into the series I don't think anyone wouldn't have placed him as our number 1 bowler. So do three and a bit ineffectual tests really made it such a bad decision to keep picking him?
Yep need another one, Smith is on the move and Head won’t hang about.
Yep need another one, Smith is on the move and Head won’t hang about.
Broad on fire. Aussies possibly about to pay the price for going nowhere this morning.
Yep it’s been good. If we could get rid of Smith…
Was going to ask do we put that down as yet more piss poor wicketkeeping or unfortunate?
Was going to ask do we put that down as yet more piss poor wicketkeeping or unfortunate?
Frustrating in a way, but this morning I would have bitten your hand off for a 12 run defecit. We have to get the balance right tomorrow. The bowlers need a bit of rest.Yep. They need two nights rest before bowling again. Thanks to Lynch I've had to seek my tickets for tomorrow.
Frustrating in a way, but this morning I would have bitten your hand off for a 12 run defecit. We have to get the balance right tomorrow. The bowlers need a bit of rest.
We really need a couple of players to stand up.
No probably not, but equally we bowled really well to get them in the position we did. We’ll see how it plays out but put into bat and getting less than 300 I’d take parity going into the third innings, especially without our spinner. Now on us to do a good job batting. I do think we need to bat for ideally a day because the four main bowlers bowled a lot of overs. They need a rest.
Cramming in back to back tests is another load of nonsense driven by the H*****d, decimating the calendar and shagging out the players. A decent spread of the tests through the summer would improve the chances of players recovering from injury and improve the element of competition without excuses being thrown up.
Of course, it would also ramp up the tension and excitement for everyone following it, weaving it's way through our summer.
I'm delighted that professional football returns in 6 days, I hope it blows the junk food pyjamarama out of the water.
Can't be long until Crawley gets his eye out.
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
He was given out after the Aussies reviewed
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
He was given out after the Aussies reviewed
He was but even with the "evidence" of snicko, he didn't hit that for me. Seemed to be a clear gap between bat and ball
No way Duckett hit that. There was a gap between bat and ballI missed that wichett, so did he not ask for a review?
He was given out after the Aussies reviewed
He was but even with the "evidence" of snicko, he didn't hit that for me. Seemed to be a clear gap between bat and ball
I’m not so sure, what caused the snicko noise that was illustrated by the spike?
I wouldn't bet against this Australian side chasing down 320/330 if they need to.I would. Have you looked at their scores in this series? We need to kill the "this australian side" myth, they are shit and they should be told they are!
Pitch has flattened but this’ll be the best day to bat. If we bat to the close we’ll be in a very strong position.But please tell Stokes there is no need to declare today regardless of score.
That one kept really low
I think its more the overhead conditions being better for batting than the pitch flattening. Should be plenty of cloud cover over the last couple of days
That one kept really low
Joel Wilson has had a terrible series.
Excellent day from England. I would have bit your hand off for that at the start of the day.
Broad retiring, quite the surprise.
Excellent day from England. I would have bit your hand off for that at the start of the day.
Yeah overall it has been a great day. They lost the plot the last hour or so though.
End of an era. Bet the Aussies are looking forward to one last bowling innings from him! :DIf Warner has any decency he should tap his first ball gently back to him tomorrow.
Surprised that Broady is retiring.
However, the way that he’s announced it isn’t a surprise.
End of a day during the fifth ashes when he’s guaranteed to be either batting or bowling the next morning.
He likes the limelight does Stuart.
Jimmy, however, I can see announcing his retirement on a wet Wednesday in November
I think Australia’s negativity will bury them. They’ll have half a mind on the fact a draw wins them the series. They’ll get entrenched.
Really surprised at Broad retiring. He's been very good all series and easily had at least another couple of years in him. Its understandable though how he wants to go out whilst he still loves the game. I suspect that this will be the last time we see Anderson in an England shirt too.
What unbelievable players they have been. They deserve to go out on a high tomorrow or Monday.
To honest Broad going means it’s probably helpful if Jimmy hangs on. He bowled better this game, so be interesting to see how he goes tomorrow.
A bowling attack of Wood, Archer, Woakes and Tongue would be great to watch. Sadly the fitness of the 1st 2 is what will hold that idea back
Jimmy needs to do the same as Broad. We need to get Archer fit and move forward. They have been absolutely brilliant for us, for many years and earn their status of legend. Hopefully, we win this test to go out on a high.
Rain has started just in time! :D
It's all looking a bit ominous at the moment. Nothing in the pitch and we've got a part time spinner bowling piesYes England were stupid last night but should still win this if weather allows.
Rain has started just in time! :D
Rain is the last thing England want.
It's all looking a bit ominous at the moment. Nothing in the pitch and we've got a part time spinner bowling piesYes England were stupid last night but should still win this if weather allows.
Rain has started just in time! :D
Rain is the last thing England want.
I'll take rain all day today and tomorrow, as it looks like the alternative is 3-1 to the Aussies which would really flatter them.
What a heap of garbage Dukes have produced, no swing and bowlers constantly unhappy with it.
Woakes is bowling superbly here, the delivery to get Khawaja was unplayable.
17 wickets at an average of just over 18 and he missed Edgbaston and Lords where he has fantastic records for England.
Advantage Australia again. We really needed to limit them to 200-4, 200-5 to feel in control. 200-3, with Smith and Head both looking dangerous and Jimmy lacking bite, doesn't feel great.
Come on rain, where are you?
Come on rain, where are you?
That's not going to help us get them out. If it rains for a while, it'll stay 2-1 rather than 3-1, which is still a series defeat.
I cannot, cannot believe that.
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
The thing is, if he'd thrown it up at the same time (after taking the catch) no one would be questioning it, that's why it's so borderline. I reckon part of the problem was that he looked gutted, if he'd carried on celebrating I reckon it might've been given out.
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
The thing is, if he'd thrown it up at the same time (after taking the catch) no one would be questioning it, that's why it's so borderline. I reckon part of the problem was that he looked gutted, if he'd carried on celebrating I reckon it might've been given out.
Rather reminds me of a certain Villa keeper looking sooo guilty about a borderline own goal that he made it easy for the attention seeking moron 50 yards away to give a goal
It's indicative of a lack of care or professionalism that has effectively lost us the seriesI can’t say I disagree with you. Unprofessional in selection, play and effective execution.
Yeah, perfect example, I think the reaction of the player has a much bigger impact than you might expect and the seemingly default reaction of looking crestfallen about the mistake pushes the ref in the other direction.
So close to winning this series 2-1, but for an act of bravado on day 1 and persisting with a player that has clearly past his best.
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
So close to winning this series 2-1, but for an act of bravado on day 1 and persisting with a player that has clearly past his best.
What cost us more in the first test, and also here in hindsight, was not being able to clean up their tail, especially Pat Cummins.
I think it was the right call. Looks careless from Stokes, not sure if he was celebrating as such but clearly not holding on to it tight enough.
The thing is, if he'd thrown it up at the same time (after taking the catch) no one would be questioning it, that's why it's so borderline. I reckon part of the problem was that he looked gutted, if he'd carried on celebrating I reckon it might've been given out.
Great wicket for Moeen, if anything he's getting too much spin to the right handers but against a leftie one going across you like that is really hard to deal with.
Just can't see it... even with that wicket. We have one crocked bowler in Wood and Anderson who just hasn't done it across the series...
Now it’s game on…..the pantomime villain in to bay…hope the bugger is walking back as quickly
Cummins in though, and we know what happened first test...Stop it!
Cummins is key, we need him gone.Your wish is Mo’s command
What a rollercoaster this has been. Shite to brilliant in an afternoon.
Here is a full list of England bowlers who have taken six or more wickets in three consecutive home Ashes Tests within the same series:
Alec Bedser in 1953
Jim Laker in 1956
Chris Woakes in 2023
Murphy and Carey can absolutely win this. This is too easy for them now.
What a rollercoaster this has been. Shite to brilliant in an afternoon.
It's been like that the whole series
Broad is just going for runs. This total is coming down fast.
Broady swaps the bails and gets a wicket next ball :)
Stuart Broad, what a fucking player
Now it’s game on…..the pantomime villain in to bay…hope the bugger is walking back as quickly
I now really wish that Broad hadn't have said that "that's all you'll be remembered for" to Carey at Lords....
Telling that Anderson didn't get on after the rainIt's a shame how Jimmy is finishing and even more so when you look at Broady's farewell.
We could justifiably have won this series 4 or 5-0.I couldn't disagree with that less ;D
We could justifiably have won this series 4 or 5-0.
Thank god that boring test cricket is done and we can start The Hundred tomorrow.I am quite looking forward to a visit down under in 25/26 as it should not be the repeat of humiliation of last tour in 17/18. Not counting the one in between.
We won that series and no one can ever tell me different.
Yeah me too. Had always done Melbourne / Sydney historically with one trip to Perth, but at the World Cup last year went to both Brisbane and Adelaide for the first time and would like to spend more time at both.Thank god that boring test cricket is done and we can start The Hundred tomorrow.I am quite looking forward to a visit down under in 25/26 as it should not be the repeat of humiliation of last tour in 17/18. Not counting the one in between.
Also I’ve had concerns about a few specific decisions, but there’s no doubt our approach to Test cricket is spot on. In 18 months we’ve gone from hopeless to matching/arguably bettering the best side in the world.
Also I’ve had concerns about a few specific decisions, but there’s no doubt our approach to Test cricket is spot on. In 18 months we’ve gone from hopeless to matching/arguably bettering the best side in the world.
Agreed, this is why I was getting frustrated at people moaning about bazball at the start of the series, it was application not intent that caused the problems in the first 2, and largely because we had an attack that was a mess and looked undercooked in the field. If we'd had Woakes and Wood available and selected for all 5 I think we'd be celebrating a 4-0 and mourning the loss of a whitewash to the Manchester weather.
To go back I moaned about Robinson a lot in the first 2 matches and the reason is because of the difference between what he was doing and what Woakes did. Robinson took a few wickets but also bowled a lot of poor spells where he allowed them to coast at 3-4 an over with little risk. Woakes on the other hand only bowled like that for a few brief periods where the pitch was offering nothing, and even then he helped slow the scoring rate and build pressure in another way. As it turns out Anderson out for Woakes would've been the right call.
Woakes should be first pick in home tests, especially with Broad now gone.
It’s so disheartening that we’ve got a Test summer against Sri Lanka and West Indies. Not a reflection of either team, they’ve both got amazing legacies, but it reflects on how badly cricket has been managed that it’s two 3 test series against two underfunded and under supported sides.Here is something I heard earlier that is disheartening even more. In the next 12 months England will play 11 Test matches which is good however Australia play nearly the same number (12) in the next 3 years against just 3 countries and that is bad for Test cricket when one of the major rich cricket countries isolate themselves like that.
Australian press going into a meltdown over the ball change is just beautiful.
It’s so disheartening that we’ve got a Test summer against Sri Lanka and West Indies. Not a reflection of either team, they’ve both got amazing legacies, but it reflects on how badly cricket has been managed that it’s two 3 test series against two underfunded and under supported sides.Here is something I heard earlier that is disheartening even more. In the next 12 months England will play 11 Test matches which is good however Australia play nearly the same number (12) in the next 3 years against just 3 countries and that is bad for Test cricket when one of the major rich cricket countries isolate themselves like that.
It’s so disheartening that we’ve got a Test summer against Sri Lanka and West Indies. Not a reflection of either team, they’ve both got amazing legacies, but it reflects on how badly cricket has been managed that it’s two 3 test series against two underfunded and under supported sides.Here is something I heard earlier that is disheartening even more. In the next 12 months England will play 11 Test matches which is good however Australia play nearly the same number (12) in the next 3 years against just 3 countries and that is bad for Test cricket when one of the major rich cricket countries isolate themselves like that.
Australian press going into a meltdown over the ball change is just beautiful.
Oh the irony
There's been no attempt to make Test Cricket more competitive or watchable, and it's really happened almost by chance that England have changed the way it's played and upped the excitement stakes. I'm not talking about playing it in silly pyjamas or other gimmicks, but they need to buck their ideas up.
Also I’ve had concerns about a few specific decisions, but there’s no doubt our approach to Test cricket is spot on. In 18 months we’ve gone from hopeless to matching/arguably bettering the best side in the world.
Agreed, this is why I was getting frustrated at people moaning about bazball at the start of the series, it was application not intent that caused the problems in the first 2, and largely because we had an attack that was a mess and looked undercooked in the field. If we'd had Woakes and Wood available and selected for all 5 I think we'd be celebrating a 4-0 and mourning the loss of a whitewash to the Manchester weather.
To go back I moaned about Robinson a lot in the first 2 matches and the reason is because of the difference between what he was doing and what Woakes did. Robinson took a few wickets but also bowled a lot of poor spells where he allowed them to coast at 3-4 an over with little risk. Woakes on the other hand only bowled like that for a few brief periods where the pitch was offering nothing, and even then he helped slow the scoring rate and build pressure in another way. As it turns out Anderson out for Woakes would've been the right call.
Yeah I still think Robinson is a quality bowler. Had he played instead of Jimmy he would have contributed more I think.
Missed everything today due to work, but heard a bit in the car and the Talksport reporter was getting really excited as the wickets tumbled. He handed back to the studio and Danny Murphy with no emotion whatsoever said "you do know we've lost the ashes?". I'm pleased to report that the reporter took the ignorant prick to task at length.
Anyway, up the fucking England!
On to other things, where are the bowlers going to come from. Stone seems to be permanently injured, as does Archer. I hadn't realised that Villa's Chris Woakes is 34 either. Wood is 32. Potts hasn't had a look in this summer. Is Tongue going to make the grade?
On to other things, where are the bowlers going to come from. Stone seems to be permanently injured, as does Archer. I hadn't realised that Villa's Chris Woakes is 34 either. Wood is 32. Potts hasn't had a look in this summer. Is Tongue going to make the grade?
That’s a biggie, presume there are winter tours both main team and Lions….be v interesting who is picked both pace and spin bowlers.
Guess they will have a decision to make on Stokes too, is there anything they can do to get him bowling again? Heard on TMS the other day that he was sending down some off spin in the nets….
Presume Leach will be fit for the tour, Root will get a good few overs and guess Ahmed will get another chance
Guess they will have a decision to make on Stokes too, is there anything they can do to get him bowling again? Heard on TMS the other day that he was sending down some off spin in the nets….
Presume Leach will be fit for the tour, Root will get a good few overs and guess Ahmed will get another chance
Hopefully, need the balance of him bowling - get a bowling quota out of him and Root
So happy with that win, think 2-2 is fair -No, honestly 2-2 is NOT fair. Their only fair win was at Lords.
For me it all turned on Lyon getting injured.
Sorry for quoting you bother here chaps. Paul-e, you're still thinking the reckless declaration didn't cost us? I think it did but having said that, what followed was excellent from Stokes and I genuinely think that, looking back, deep down, he wouldn't do it again if he had the choice, not against Australia. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but against the so called best in the world, experimenting is not a time for experimenting. I guess we will never know. I think England played much more sensibly after the first test and had it not been for the rain in Manchester, we would be holding the urn and not those scabby, cheats.
I’d disagree on that one, think Lyon is still a high quality bowler, certainly better than Murphy currently.
So happy with that win, think 2-2 is fair -No, honestly 2-2 is NOT fair. Their only fair win was at Lords.
For me it all turned on Lyon getting injured.
And I think Lyon injury was not that big a factor. He wasn’t exactly prime Warne before his injury. Just a slightly above average player, nothing more.
On to other things, where are the bowlers going to come from. Stone seems to be permanently injured, as does Archer. I hadn't realised that Villa's Chris Woakes is 34 either. Wood is 32. Potts hasn't had a look in this summer. Is Tongue going to make the grade?
So happy with that win, think 2-2 is fair -No, honestly 2-2 is NOT fair. Their only fair win was at Lords.
For me it all turned on Lyon getting injured.
And I think Lyon injury was not that big a factor. He wasn’t exactly prime Warne before his injury. Just a slightly above average player, nothing more.
England "Player of the Summer". Including the Ireland game I guess.
We need a sixth and deciding test. I’m not ready for this to be over.
We need a sixth and deciding test. I’m not ready for this to be over.
Yes the wonderful 100 played over 16.4 overs each, what's the point. Total nonsense.We need a sixth and deciding test. I’m not ready for this to be over.
Not allowed….the real cricket starts today! Feckin ECB suited imbeciles
At lunchtime yesterday the BBC Sport app said Australia had won by 7 wickets.
With the money making potential I'm surprised the ECB hasn't looked at reverting to a 6 test series for the Ashes.
With the money making potential I'm surprised the ECB hasn't looked at reverting to a 6 test series for the Ashes.They are obsessed with finding a new market not building the existing one…wasting August with this complete made up nonsense that has no international value whilst devaluing the 50 over comp to a largely developmental one, having condensed the premier test series into 6 weeks and no championship cricket is an utter farce.
So I think the Hundred has been really good for women’s cricket. But it’s confusing having it AND a twenty20 competition.
Test cricket generally, beyond the Ashes, just needs funding, focus, and prioritisation. There’s no Test match being player in world cricket until November. I get there’s a World Cup coming up but that is mad. It just needs sorting out - starting with funnelling a bigger chunk of money to countries who want to develop Test cricket.
People would be far more open to The Hundred if it wasn't prioritised over all other forms of Cricket. The hype and bullshit from both media and players has made it even more unpalatable. No other nation has picked up the format, the football season returns days after it starts, the forecast remains poor and the shadow of a monumental Ashes series will hang over it for some time yet. It already feels as though it has run out of steam but of course the ECB will plough on and rather like Brexit there will be a series of small steps backwards without any admission of failure or responsibility until eventually the Men's competition is finished and only the Women's remains.
The TV deal means we're stuck with it for a while but it is the lamest of ducks.
India Pakistan would be good, as it's the only other real match up with the sort of spirit you see at Ashes games. The problem obiously is compounded by the fact that there are only 12 test playing nations, and at least a third of those are fairly poor nations. Obviously 5 day tests don't really lend themselves to a tournment format as it would take 6 months to play all the games! Thinking out loud, what about a northern hemisphere v southern hemisphere series, with players from England, the West Indies and India etc against players from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa?
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.Paul, the attendance is made up of 4 almost free under 16 tickets being given with everyone adult ticket purchased at about £18 so it's not a good test.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.Paul, the attendance is made up of 4 almost free under 16 tickets being given with everyone adult ticket purchased at about £18 so it's not a good test.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
Part of the problem is that when you consider (English) football, rugby and cricket in that order, then in descending order, club football is very much the pinnacle of the game, with the national side being of secondary importance to the majority of players and fans, and the clubs/league are the most powerful people in the game. Rugby is somewhere in the middle I'd argue. A fairly strong national and European league, with the national side more popular with a lot of fans. Then comes cricket, where the test playing side is miles more important and popular with the players and fans, such that the better players play very little county cricket, and the majority of fans will never have been to a county game or even watched one on TV.
Then on top of this, all of a sudden new formats such as T20 and The Hundred appear, which further takes away talent from the traditional long format game.
Whatever the merits of The Hundred, having Chris Hughes and Nick Bright involved really isn't going to help. Is it too much to ask to expect knowledgeable broadcasters?
Whatever the merits of The Hundred, having Chris Hughes and Nick Bright involved really isn't going to help. Is it too much to ask to expect knowledgeable broadcasters?
For me the Hundred is cricket dumbed down so these “new” fans can be entertained. So the broadcasters reflect this cricket-lite approach.
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.Paul, the attendance is made up of 4 almost free under 16 tickets being given with everyone adult ticket purchased at about £18 so it's not a good test.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
This thread risks being a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the hundred, everyone posting here is a follower of test cricket so there's a pretty clear bias.
Attendances across the season have topped 500k both summers so far, if they stay at that sort of level then the format won't go anywhere. One of the biggest challenges with cricket outside top level test series and t20 is that the crowds just aren't there, which holds the sport back.
It does seem mad but I think they are maybe gambling that 50 over cricket is what gives and possibly disappears.
One of the main drivers for the competition is "kids" and getting them involved at a young age. My query would be that if the kids then head to their local cricket club (and their parents can circumvent the clique) will they find The Hundred format being played?
When we kick off against Newcastle on 12th August the game itself is identical to those kids having a kick about in the park (Jumpers for goalposts? Marvellous isn't it? You know?) whereas the beggering about with overs and balls makes an already complicated game more convoluted.
As someone who has little interest in cricket other than a quick glance through this thread at times it would appear that The Hundred is potentially a good idea for the let’s get the youngsters involved angle but incredibly poorly executed. If senior cricket is predominantly about 20/20, 50 over 1 day and then Test Cricket then what the suits and blazers seem to have forgotten is how to schedule a new competition into that framework. I have no idea what the answer is but from the outside it’s an absolute shitshow. Would a potential solution be The Hundred played by County 2nd XI and youth system players?
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
It wouldn't work though, unless you had it in India every time when you could more or less guarantee no rain. Otherwise, you could well have teams drawing all the time, and the better sides being knocked out of the group stages due to the weather. And what happens in the knock out stages if a match gets rained off completely?
One of the main drivers for the competition is "kids" and getting them involved at a young age. My query would be that if the kids then head to their local cricket club (and their parents can circumvent the clique) will they find The Hundred format being played?
When we kick off against Newcastle on 12th August the game itself is identical to those kids having a kick about in the park (Jumpers for goalposts? Marvellous isn't it? You know?) whereas the beggering about with overs and balls makes an already complicated game more convoluted.
It depends on how old the kids are, most leagues play t20 from u11-u18 but below that you get 5 or 10 over matches. The same is true in football with lots of stuff at primary school level being 5 or 7-a-side.
Rugby is even more extreme with whole element of the game not included until colt/u18 level (at various points the following are introduced: tackling, kicking, posts, scrums - first uncontested and then later real ones, line outs, rucks and mauls). In fact the rules of youth level rugby are closer to league than union and new elements are slowly introduced when it's safe and sensible for them to be.As someone who has little interest in cricket other than a quick glance through this thread at times it would appear that The Hundred is potentially a good idea for the let’s get the youngsters involved angle but incredibly poorly executed. If senior cricket is predominantly about 20/20, 50 over 1 day and then Test Cricket then what the suits and blazers seem to have forgotten is how to schedule a new competition into that framework. I have no idea what the answer is but from the outside it’s an absolute shitshow. Would a potential solution be The Hundred played by County 2nd XI and youth system players?
I think it's important to take a step back and look at what the real drivers behind it are. For me there are 2 things that led to it being introduced:
1. t20 gave the sport a massive boost (globally) and gave the sport a format that could be competitive, as an event, with football, rugby, etc because it was just the right length of match in a sport that was previously a 6-8 hour commitment at minimum. However as the rules were cleaned up some of the parts that rushed the gam along got lost and t20 has drifted from the 3hr schedule it started with to a point where most games are closer to 4hrs. I suspect the ECB wanted a format where they could bring back those quicker elements and add a few more (so back-to-back overs from the same end to reduce time resetting the field, for example). I don't agree with it but I suspect someone has some research data that shows 3hrs is the ideal length for a game.
2. They wanted a franchise league and that doesn't work with 18 teams so they needed a way to drop the numbers. Any format that was based on the existing 3 would've seen huge arguments over which teams were included, by making it a weird offshoot with silly rules and completely isolated funding, etc they made it less of a problem to go with 8 brand new franchises. It wouldn't surprise me if the rules do flip to it being a 2nd t20 league in time but by the time it happens the teams that are involved will be settled and considered as genuinely distinct from the county game so they will get their competitor to the IPL, etc.
They could play a World Test Championship in 5/6 weeks if they get over this daft obsession to only play one game at a time.
If you have 12 teams - you’d only need 4 grounds in whichever country staged it
Qualifier round teams ranked 5-12 is 4 games played over same 5 days leaves 8 teams so 4 quarter finals again played in tandem then two semis and a final…done and dusted in 6 weeks leaving a few days between rounds
It wouldn't work though, unless you had it in India every time when you could more or less guarantee no rain. Otherwise, you could well have teams drawing all the time, and the better sides being knocked out of the group stages due to the weather. And what happens in the knock out stages if a match gets rained off completely?
Keep a couple of a reserve day for each round and I think it's workable. Schedule wouldn't be massively different to this ashes series where only 1 test was really impacted by weather and would've been completed with a reserve day. Everywhere capable of hosting it would also be able to find a window where they could be fairly sure of the weather. If you're really worried you could even add a 2nd reserve day. Then schedule 5+2 on, 5 off and repeat for each stage, all done in 41-43 days so pretty much 6 weeks.
I do think that would be better than the current test championship which doesn't really work.
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
With respect that’s total rubbish. I don’t like Indian cricket board, far too arrogant but Indian team has done rather well in Test cricket over the last ten years especially against Australia. Indian bowlers are not known for chucking pies and their defeat in early June was how it’s always been when they tour England. Never good in early summer. Far too cold. Having said that I do wish ICC would not always bend over backwards to accommodate India.
Except on their last two visits to Australia they have won the Test series.With respect that’s total rubbish. I don’t like Indian cricket board, far too arrogant but Indian team has done rather well in Test cricket over the last ten years especially against Australia. Indian bowlers are not known for chucking pies and their defeat in early June was how it’s always been when they tour England. Never good in early summer. Far too cold. Having said that I do wish ICC would not always bend over backwards to accommodate India.
It's not rubbish at all. We've been docked more points in one go, than anybody has been previously. Meanwhile India will produce 5 pitches you wouldn't want to play village cricket on and get away with it year after year...but entertainment? Value? Hmmm. The Aussies will blow them away, as you'd expect they would anybody at home.
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
Eh? The first test at Edgbaston went to the last session of the last day?
WTC is gerrymandering to get India into a final where they will inevitability choke again. England and Australia are comfortably the two best sides in the world and produced an absolute worldie of a series.
In India they're producing sub-par pitches, not worthy of test cricket and getting away with 2 run an over tedious dross and they'll go to Australia and be whitewashed in the winter of 24. Yet probably earn more points for chucking rank half volleys down at a decent rate.
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
Eh? The first test at Edgbaston went to the last session of the last day?
WTC is gerrymandering to get India into a final where they will inevitability choke again. England and Australia are comfortably the two best sides in the world and produced an absolute worldie of a series.
In India they're producing sub-par pitches, not worthy of test cricket and getting away with 2 run an over tedious dross and they'll go to Australia and be whitewashed in the winter of 24. Yet probably earn more points for chucking rank half volleys down at a decent rate.
I've no sympathy for either side. Both teams overrates were pathetic during the course of the series. The cricket that was played was brilliant to watch, but that is not a get out of jail card when it comes to bowling at 11-12 overs per hour. The ICC needs to get far more of a handle on it in general. Fines and docking WTC points ultimately don't change anything. In game penalties need to be brought in
WTC is gerrymandering to get India into a final where they will inevitability choke again. England and Australia are comfortably the two best sides in the world and produced an absolute worldie of a series.
In India they're producing sub-par pitches, not worthy of test cricket and getting away with 2 run an over tedious dross and they'll go to Australia and be whitewashed in the winter of 24. Yet probably earn more points for chucking rank half volleys down at a decent rate.
I've no sympathy for either side. Both teams overrates were pathetic during the course of the series. The cricket that was played was brilliant to watch, but that is not a get out of jail card when it comes to bowling at 11-12 overs per hour. The ICC needs to get far more of a handle on it in general. Fines and docking WTC points ultimately don't change anything. In game penalties need to be brought in
What do you expect when one side has to dig a spinner out of retirement who subsequently injures his finger and groin, while the other loses one of their best players?
I fail to see how the integrity of the game is being upheld because we have to watch Head or Brook bowl absolute filth to get the over count in, just because.
Maybe it needs a general recalculation. Change it to a generous target of 14 overs an hour for the bowling side, and scrap the arbitrary rule of only adding 30 minutes on to the end of the day and bowl the remaining overs unless conditions aren't fit for play. I'd scrap fines and docking of points all together, and bring in a system of penalty runs to the opposition that becomes more severe the more a team falls behind a rate
All the current system does is encourage a team that is behind in the game to drag their feet. The 3rd day at the Oval being the prime example. They went off in bright sunshine with 10 overs just disappearing. That sort of thing just makes cricket look a bit silly.
India are a good side. The pitches they produce at home of late are shocking. Although in fairness Edgbaston was particularly crap this year.
Eh? The first test at Edgbaston went to the last session of the last day?
A pitch doesn’t have to break up on the first day to be bad. Edgbaston was a pudding this year - no pace, no bounce, no carry, and barely any turn.
That sounds like some games I played on the original Brian Lara cricket on the mega drive!
We were back on the IOM last week, and had a barebcue at our best friends' house. Their son who's 18, was in the IOM T20 team that lost to Spain in just two balls, a new world record. The IOM scored 10 (with 2 from our friend) before Spain replied with two sixes in two balls.
Yeah my first Cricket game was for the school - all out for 37. I opened the batting and lasted 4 overs - by which time we were 4 for 11. I was out for a duck - after about 10 forward defensives - I got stuck between a forward defensive and a tentative drive and ballooned the ball.That sounds like some games I played on the original Brian Lara cricket on the mega drive!We were back on the IOM last week, and had a barebcue at our best friends' house. Their son who's 18, was in the IOM T20 team that lost to Spain in just two balls, a new world record. The IOM scored 10 (with 2 from our friend) before Spain replied with two sixes in two balls.
Reminds me of my first game for my school, Kings Norton Boys against George Dixon around 1979, we were all out for 11. Quickest game that I’ve ever been involved in. We did improve after that though and went on to win schoolboy cricket cups.
I think Spain and a lot of the Eastern European non-traditional cricket countries mainly get a load of ringers in from the sub-continent. Our other friends’ daughter came back from a cricket tour of Romania and all the teams were full of Indians.
I think Spain and a lot of the Eastern European non-traditional cricket countries mainly get a load of ringers in from the sub-continent. Our other friends’ daughter came back from a cricket tour of Romania and all the teams were full of Indians.
I think Spain and a lot of the Eastern European non-traditional cricket countries mainly get a load of ringers in from the sub-continent. Our other friends’ daughter came back from a cricket tour of Romania and all the teams were full of Indians.
There's European cricket on the free Viaplay channel. I'd say over 3/4 of players are sub-continent (or sub-continent heritage). Some of the bowling I saw was very ropey
It’s a very strong squad. Shame about Jofra, but right call. Really interested to see Gus Atkinson, he was apparently hitting 94/95mph the other day. England absolutely one of the favourites.
Curious that Brook stays in the side. They must be putting him in.Not sure it's that simple. Malan is missing because he became a father yesterday and Roy is still not fit.
Ah ok.Yep. Could be a short game.
Pretty dreadful start.
Why do France keeping getting major sporting events? They couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.
Hasn’t been helped by the shambolic management of the fixtures either.
Fairly poor from Brook as well. Need Moeen to do his bit now.
We’re going to need a big last 10 here.
Any predictions for the World Cup. I'll go with India, England, Australia and Pakistan to make the semis. India to win final as home advantage will be massive.Please NOT India or Australia. Hopefully England again if not NZ or Pakistan.
So the opening match of the WC, between two of the very best teams, finalists in the last world cup, staged in a country where we are told they just love cricket, only a handful bothered to turn up the ground to watch....tu tut.
Not having that. When we had WC here in 2019 grounds were sold out for all matches way before tournament started.So the opening match of the WC, between two of the very best teams, finalists in the last world cup, staged in a country where we are told they just love cricket, only a handful bothered to turn up the ground to watch....tu tut.
In fairness the fixtures were released incredibly late.
Good start need to continue it. I wonder whether dew will be a factor - not sure whether that happens as much near the Himalayas!Being as you quoted it, it's Himalaya and never the Himalayas. :)
Scratch that, it won’t because it’s a day game.Don't discount the overnight collection still being on ground for a relatively early game.
The Crims are 56-4 off 11.1 chasing 312.
These run rate preservation games are not a good luck.
Woakes is having a nightmare thus far in this World Cup
That was an unbelievable decision by the Umpire. Well done Mr Saikat.
Agree with comments being made on TV. About time Afghanistan were given more matches somewhere in the region like UAE by England, Australia etc. I bet there is superb talent in the country that needs to be encouraged by exposure and raising standards.
What a catch that was from Root, had to watch it back a fair few times and I reckon that's the best catch of the tournament so far and will take some beating.
What a catch that was from Root, had to watch it back a fair few times and I reckon that's the best catch of the tournament so far and will take some beating.
Joe Root catch
https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/1713521618377486811?t=qC0c28RDXzGgrnu6dnrQAw&s=19
Well Curren didn’t listen now it’s Woakes turn.
I think Harry could still pull it around, not over yet.
I think Afghanistan’s inexperience in winning matches will result in England sneaking this. Wood and Rashid doing very well.FFS.
Not sure who what was more pathetic, England performance or my optimism :-\I think Afghanistan’s inexperience in winning matches will result in England sneaking this. Wood and Rashid doing very well.FFS.
It would seem 2019 was the aberration sadly. We are so bad at world cups generally.
It’s not as simplistic as that though is it? I don’t love the Hundred, but it has brought a lot of people to the game and been massive for the women’s game. This isn’t about domestic 50 over cricket, not really, it’s more that it’s become massively inconsistent in the international calendar. England haven’t played enough games, and that is the administrators fault.
But beyond that there are players like Woakes and Curran ( really like them both, the former is obviously terrific) who are massively underperforming. Like I said earlier, they only managed 8 overs between them today - they were dreadful.
Also the structure of the side is unbalanced - Livingstone and Curran at 6/7 is too high. If it were 7/8 that’s very different.
Blimey!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/67168585 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/67168585)
Our bowling has been fucking atrocious for much of this tournament.
Our bowling has been fucking atrocious for much of this tournament.
Agreed, abysmal. I'm not a cricket expert by any stretch of the imagination, so can somebody explain how Chris Woakes can be the best player in the Ashes, and then look like he's never thrown a cricket ball in anger in this World Cup? I get the whole home pitches versus away thing, but his drop off in form is incredible. It's going from Emi Martinez to Robin Olsen in terms of a reduction in form and ability.
It’s also then weird to opt to bowl - Wood is bowling like a drain. We look completely unprepared.Which we clearly are. Shocking from top to bottom.
380 minimum. Tired batters against fresh bowlers. Lose by 100+. Appalling decision to bat second.
Embarrassingly bad performance from England. They have not looked good at any point in this tournament so far, and there is a lot of discussion about some of the team being more interested in playing golf.
Any success for English sporting teams always seems to happen in spite of the governing bodies rather than because of them, and this is why its always fleeting.
That was a painful watch. No sympathy for the ECB though , I can’t even remember who won this season’s domestic 50 over format because it has been so drastically marginalised.
Diabolical stuff. They just look like they haven’t bothered to prepare. It’s like Buttler’s comments on the toss and conditions in hindsight - how did we not know that was a likely possibility?
Diabolical stuff. They just look like they haven’t bothered to prepare. It’s like Buttler’s comments on the toss and conditions in hindsight - how did we not know that was a likely possibility?
It wouldn't have mattered if England had batted first. Thinking it was acceptable to go into an ODI with David Willey at 7 and Adil Rashid at 8 is monumentally ridiculous.
The blame sits firmly with the ECB and their failure to build on the 2019 win. For the world champions to not have a domestic first class 50 over competition is ridiculous, whoever came up with the 100 should be ashamed. The game has been marginalised by that circus.
Some interesting decisions on the new multi-year central contracts.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67196886
I love Mark Wood but a three year deal with his injury record and age? Not sure if I’m reading too much into this but one year deals for Stokes and Jimmy could be indicative of what’s to come.
It also underlines just how good a captain Morgan really was.Yep. However much Rob Key gets praised for the appointment of Baz to coach the test team the appointment of Mott is also on him. Sack him immediately after this tournament and get Morgs in as coach for the WI tour in December to build for the T20 World Cup next year and shape a team for the next World Cup in SA.
I've kept a bit quiet on this thread as I think I jinxed it by saying what a good white ball team we were back at the start of September! This tournament has been an unmitigated disaster though and as bad as if not worse than 1999 and 2015.
It is a bit of head scratcher as to why we have been so bad. Just wonder if it's a tournament too far for some of these players.
Some of these central contract offers are looking a bit clumsy.
I think they’ve been blasé and arrogant - they look unprepared and frankly embarrassing. It’s the antithesis of what led up to 2019.
"England are 147 for 9 with 18.1 overs remaining"
Jesus wept.
It’s the lack of clear thinking that tells you how unprepared they are. They’ve not got a clue what their best team is. Livingstone playing 6 rings massive alarm bells, Willey at 7 in the last game the same.
Wedging in Stokes destroyed team direction and spirit. A shameful act that’s delivered the disaster it coveted.😡
"England are 147 for 9 with 18.1 overs remaining"
Jesus wept.
It's not even a decent T20 score! When England cricket do terrible, there really is nobody worse.
Love Stokes but he shouldn’t have just waltzed back in. They look like a team who doesn’t have a clue on the best side - muddled, without a plan, pretty awful. It takes some doing to put out England’s worst World Cup effort but this is it.
Morgan alluded to that I believe today. Woakes was asked and denied it - as of course he would - but rarely smoke without fire.Love Stokes but he shouldn’t have just waltzed back in. They look like a team who doesn’t have a clue on the best side - muddled, without a plan, pretty awful. It takes some doing to put out England’s worst World Cup effort but this is it.
Have to.wonder how this has happened and some serious questions need to be asked really. The timing of the announcement about the contracts can't have helped, bug there seems to be something gone on.
I’ll be honest I think the Hundred has done some good things, mainly for the women’s game.
But they shouldn’t have marginalised the 50 over game domestically. Although I don’t think that’s the issue with this World Cup to be honest.
The Hundred hasn’t affected this squad though has it? It didn’t hamper their development as international white ball players.
The Hundred hasn’t affected this squad though has it? It didn’t hamper their development as international white ball players.
It has though, we raced through an Ashes series to get half the summer clear for it, arguably those in the Ashes peaked for that and offered little to the 50 over side, we played a whole domestic 50 over comp with pretty much zero appearances from the World Cup squad, the standard wasn’t great but it never would be if top domestic players are excluded. Had the Blast took place when the nonsense was on it would have been understandable as that is a format with a World Cup in it.
Fundamentally I'm happy The Hundred has been a relative failure, it would've been so much worse had it succeeded, I hate it, it's stupid, it's the death of everything I love about cricket and I hope it burns in hell.
Fundamentally I'm happy The Hundred has been a relative failure, it would've been so much worse had it succeeded, I hate it, it's stupid, it's the death of everything I love about cricket and I hope it burns in hell.
Agree, I’m not fundamentally opposed to some form of franchise cricket to help subsidise our domestic structure…it’s trying to invent a format that is utterly ridiculous with NO international value that grinds my gears.
Well who knows, but I think the rebrand has helped mean it carved a path as something “new”. That probably made it easier to engage a new audience and also made it more appealing to the broadcasters. As a whole I think there were 14m odd viewers for the Hundred in 2022, that’s not a small number.
I’ll be honest I find it hard to engage with, but I’m not the target audience.
Well done Afghanistan. Also further demonstrates how woeful England have been.How? They had both already beaten England easily and one of them was always very likely to beat the other.
Well who knows, but I think the rebrand has helped mean it carved a path as something “new”. That probably made it easier to engage a new audience and also made it more appealing to the broadcasters. As a whole I think there were 14m odd viewers for the Hundred in 2022, that’s not a small number.
I’ll be honest I find it hard to engage with, but I’m not the target audience.
I suppose that could be the case Paul, where that initial interest was sparked by something 'new' and different. Would be interesting to know whether those viewing figures held this year though.
I think it was the other Paul who said that it risks become a bit of an echo chamber on here and it's a fair point, as I like many others seem to dislike it immensely. The two main positives I've heard repeated are the broadcast deal it has secured with SKY and the BBC up to 2028 and thsg money is filtered down to counties and that it has been good for the women's game.
I would love to hear the point of view of someone who is a real advocate of it and is entirely honest about it (including the real financial picture around it and doesn't talk about the big crowds without mentioning the number of free tickets that are given away etc.) as I just don't see it.
Whilst disappointed at England's demise I am excited by Afghanistan's rise in this competition. They play cricket under enormous difficulty. ICC sorry BCCI need to provide them mure support.Well done Afghanistan. Also further demonstrates how woeful England have been.How? They had both already beaten England easily and one of them was always very likely to beat the other.
Once India decided to run with T20, England didn't stand a chance. The most popular, if not only major sport in a country of nearly 1.5 billion people. All the Hundred has done is dilute one of the areas of the game we were genuinely very good at.
Well who knows, but I think the rebrand has helped mean it carved a path as something “new”. That probably made it easier to engage a new audience and also made it more appealing to the broadcasters. As a whole I think there were 14m odd viewers for the Hundred in 2022, that’s not a small number.
I’ll be honest I find it hard to engage with, but I’m not the target audience.
I suppose that could be the case Paul, where that initial interest was sparked by something 'new' and different. Would be interesting to know whether those viewing figures held this year though.
I think it was the other Paul who said that it risks become a bit of an echo chamber on here and it's a fair point, as I like many others seem to dislike it immensely. The two main positives I've heard repeated are the broadcast deal it has secured with SKY and the BBC up to 2028 and thsg money is filtered down to counties and that it has been good for the women's game.
I would love to hear the point of view of someone who is a real advocate of it and is entirely honest about it (including the real financial picture around it and doesn't talk about the big crowds without mentioning the number of free tickets that are given away etc.) as I just don't see it.
I'm not an advocate for it, and I don't think you'll find one, but I think it's worth revisiting why the competition exists. For me the ECB are responsible for the most significant, and impactful change the game has ever seen in the form of t20.
They created it and showed the world that a version of the sport which lasted a few hours had huge appeal to drive attendances and sponsorship and 'save' the sport in a lot of ways. At the time it was nearly as controversial as the hundred is now but people quickly got onside with it and a new 3 format balance was established.
The problem, from the ECB point of view, is that India came along and stole it from them, creating the premier version of the competition and becoming the global audience tournament that attracts the big money. A big part of the reason for that was the draft which couldn't really happen with a county based competition so a city franchise tournament was inevitable.
The Hundred therefore came about from them wanting both a new franchise based competition that could have all the excitement of the drafting but also to open up potential new investment by creating a competition that wasn't in the shadow of the IPL. I don't think it's worked very well in either case but it's clearly what they were going for.
The big success was to put womens and mens games on the same ticket.
I didn't take it that way, I was just saying that despite not being an advocate for it I can see why it exists.
Sri Lanka were 14-6….on fire now up to 22-6
Sign of a top team, when you are in trouble the tail Enders more than double the score. 👌🏽Sri Lanka were 14-6….on fire now up to 22-6
The tail wagged a tiny bit, all out for 55.
Livingstone will end up as a bowling all rounder.
Angelo Matthews has been given out timed out in the Bangladesh v Sri Lanka game. That’s something that I have never seen before in any form of cricket.
I don't think so. He's 30. Will be fine for the next World Cup all things being equal. His bowling's not that far away and to be able to switch between off and leg spin is a massive talent. What I meant with my original comment was he'd drop one place in the order and bat at 8 in the ODI side when Woakes has moved on. Ideally we're finding a quick bowling all rounder to replace stokes in the top 6 to balance the side as well.Livingstone will end up as a bowling all rounder.
He’s getting on a bit to develop enough.
Angelo Matthews has been given out timed out in the Bangladesh v Sri Lanka game. That’s something that I have never seen before in any form of cricket.
Definitely a first in international cricket, there's already a fair few stories about it around the press.
This one is the best I can find and suggests it's happened 6 times before.
For me Livingstone is like a lot of modern all-rounders who've come through in the t20 era. He's capable of some destructive hitting but struggles to balance that with the need to sometimes bat out 30-40overs. On top of that he's come into this tournment looking 'undercooked' (like the entire batting line-up) and the outcome is that he's looked a liability.
I didn't think he had faced a delivery?
It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
He was totally unprofessional Paul. He was time lapsed even before he arrived at the crease and then started fanning about with the strap. He represented the current state of SL cricket.It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
He was totally unprofessional Paul. He was time lapsed even before he arrived at the crease and then started fanning about with the strap. He represented the current state of SL cricket.It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
I think it was other way round. Nonsense came from the batter. Mathews was either very poorly prepared or up to mega shithousery delaying restart to break Bowler's rhythm. Either way he disrespected the game, the opposition and Umpires. The 4th Umpire said he was out of time long before getting to the crease. There is a reason for two minute time window, it keeps the game at peak level and applies maximum pressure on batting team.Agreed. It was a load of nonsense similar in a way to a ref in football penalising a keeper for time wasting when they're 2-0 down.It was unprofessional by Matthews. He came out with a faulty helmet. That should have been sorted by either him or his team prior to taking field. I am with Saqib.
Not for me, you have to be an arse to appeal for that and then uphold it.
Buttler gone really cheaply again, it just feels cruel to keep picking him at this point, he's fallen apart as completely as I've ever seen.
Buttler gone really cheaply again, it just feels cruel to keep picking him at this point, he's fallen apart as completely as I've ever seen.
That was one of the worst shots you'll ever see. Horribly mis-timed and just very, very weak. The fielder will never take an easier catch.
Sri Lanka 131-9, presuming last wicket doesn’t add loads and NZ knock them off its a good result for Englands race for 7th lol in that Pakistan have nothing to play for in the last match.
It sure is a very small comfort…..all those new fans they’ve attracted playing shit & giggles in August might lose interest in cricket if England don’t qualify for Champions Trophy:-)Sri Lanka 131-9, presuming last wicket doesn’t add loads and NZ knock them off its a good result for Englands race for 7th lol in that Pakistan have nothing to play for in the last match.
As small comforts go, that’s one of the smallest that I’ve seen.
Sri Lanka 131-9, presuming last wicket doesn’t add loads and NZ knock them off its a good result for Englands race for 7th lol in that Pakistan have nothing to play for in the last match.
As small comforts go, that’s one of the smallest that I’ve seen.
Sri Lanka suspended by the ICC due to government interference in the running of the sport.
However, the ICC continues to allow Afghanistan to compete even though they Taliban have banned the women's team.
The view of the ICC is that as long as Afghanistan are acting within the laws of the country, that's fine. Even if said laws are misogynistic.
Both stories covered in this Beeb article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67384199
I accept your point on SA but there the apartheid regime was proud of its sporting prowess and particularly “purity” however its slightly different in Afghanistan. There we have a government who will hand you 20 lashes for taking part in idle stuff playing football or cricket. So we have a duty to nourish Afghan cricket wherever we can and in whatever way.Sri Lanka suspended by the ICC due to government interference in the running of the sport.
However, the ICC continues to allow Afghanistan to compete even though they Taliban have banned the women's team.
The view of the ICC is that as long as Afghanistan are acting within the laws of the country, that's fine. Even if said laws are misogynistic.
Both stories covered in this Beeb article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/67384199
It's a good job the cricket world didn't take the same approach to apartheid in SA and just continue playing against them.
South Africans once again choking. India v Australia final, the worst option ever IMO.
Anyone but Australia for me. I turned on just as the second wicket fell so I haven't seen a boundary in well over an hour. I understand the conservatism from the batters but I wonder when they start going for it again.
I agree that a humiliation in front of 100 odd thousand fans would be hilarious but does it have to be bloody Australia handing it out?
I just can't bring myself to be as anti- anybody else as I can the Aussies.
Innings of a lifetime from Travis Head. Top Aussie 'tache as well. If they don't clinch the thing it won't be his fault, that's for sure.
Travis was our club's overseas player in 2013. Top lad.
Ground was half empty at the end as well.Can't blame them 9pm is normally rush hour in Ahmedabad so they needed to beat the traffic.
Funny how, since it became obvious they were going to lose, we've hardly seen any shots of Modi himself whatsoever? Weird this.Haha, yes indeed. However any lack of opportiniuy for that awful racist narcissist bigot to shine is welcomed.
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
They’ve had a good year, unfortunately
Well done Australia, World Cup winners for the 6th time.Same old Aussies always winning.
They’ve had a good year, unfortunately
Still couldn't win the Ashes over here, the cheating pricks
Sam Curran is having a rough old time at the mo.
That’s another really poor game to lose.
Absolutely, and frankly anything that can reinvigorate West Indies cricket will do for me. Shai Hope is a ridiculous, and largely unfulfilled, talent. I always hope something, no matter how small, can be the launchpad for them again.
Haha like it. Remember him running out Lara on his bow out game against us in the 2007 World Cup at Kensington Oval ? I was there and the (local) crowd were adamant he'd done him like a kipper. Google it. Certainly looks bad haha.Absolutely, and frankly anything that can reinvigorate West Indies cricket will do for me. Shai Hope is a ridiculous, and largely unfulfilled, talent. I always hope something, no matter how small, can be the launchpad for them again.
I often think that, then I remember Marlon Samuels and decide 'nah, fuck 'em'.
Hard to believe that Jacks didn't bowl a ball on a turning pitch.Totally agree with this and I think even just a couple of overs sneaked in when Hope / Hetmyer were beginning their innings' would have given Jos some options at the end and he could have got away with only bowling Sam for 8 or 9. Little things. But suggest maybe he's not the man for the job. Or they'll win by 200 runs on Wednesday !
I think Sam needs to be left out for his own sake.
Hard to believe that Jacks didn't bowl a ball on a turning pitch.
I think Sam needs to be left out for his own sake.
There does seem to be a gap in terms of reacting to the situation, be that in game or even before the game when the conditions differ to what you’re expecting. They seem to have a plan and that’s it.I've thought that for a while. Even things like persisting with bouncers or slower ball bouncers because that's what the stats told them beforehand rather than captaining on instinct. No idea whether it's Jos or Mott but it doesn't look great
Jos himself looks pretty shot at the moment.
Does anyone know how much cricket he's played in the last six months?
Bangladesh had a batsman given out for obstructing the field, gloving away the ball…only 2nd batsman in tests to have that…guess the World Cup controversy meant NZ we’re never going to not appeal
I vaguely recall the Gooch incident. He brushed the ball away to prevent it hitting the stumps. Little doubt he would have been out had he not done it so in this event the ruling was fair enough.Not as such anymore. The "Handled the Ball" and "Obstructing the Field" modes of dismissal were merged about 18 months back under the latter definition.Which also explains Risso's question about how often this specific mode of dismissal has been evident. Although to add confusion there is very little evidence to suggest that what the Bangladeshi batter did caused any obstruction to the field - and having seen it it was just a bit of a brain fade.
Is there a rule for this called 'handling the ball'?
Blimey 3 spinners and 1 seamer, with two of the spinners being Hartley and Rehan. The seamer is Wood, so Leach is potentially going to have to bowl a lot of holding overs.
Yeah Root is a good option, but I don’t really see him holding. It’s a very bold selection in terms of bowling options.
Yep immediately under pressure. To be fair he couldn’t wish for a better captain in this circumstance.
There will still be plenty in the pitch, but we’re bowling too poorly to exploit any of it at the moment. We need a bit of a reset, this is still a pitch where 2/3 can go quite quickly.
Chastening day - worst bit was the first two reviews, desperate and just poor.
Winning in India is next to impossible at the best of times. Going there with 3 spinners who between them have played 1 test match, all of whom have very medicore FC records gives you absolutely no chance. Leach is ok at test level, but no more than that really. It really is shocking the lack of competent spin options our system is creating.
We will never produce international class, effective spinners when the red ball game in this country is marginalised by the white ball game.
I think fixing the spin issue is really tough. You’ve got counties that want to protect their interests, which is understandable, and the game just isn’t set up for spinners really.
Spinners can be massively effective in the IPL, Rashid Khan is one of the best players around. I think part of the problem with English spinners in India is even when you are bowling spin in England you typically need to bowl in a different way if you’re going to be successful in India. In England flight and drift is key, but India it’s more about firing it into the pitch. That’s why you’re seeing players like Hartley and Bashir selected - they see them as having the style that suits Indian pitches. But by definition they’re not really suited to English pitches, so they don’t really build up the experience they need. It’s a bit of a catch 22.
Yeah, but let’s face it there wasn’t this conveyer belt of top class spinners back in the day either. Since the turn of the century we’ve only really had two properly high class spinners (Swann and Panesar). Even before that it was still fairly slim pickings. I don’t know the answer, although playing some cricket that requires spinners would clearly help. It feels like it needs a rethink.
How do spinners generally get on in the IPL Paul? Assuming they're useful because it's Indian pitches, you'd think that would be a reason for some English spinners to get good at the art?
Spinners can be massively effective in the IPL, Rashid Khan is one of the best players around. I think part of the problem with English spinners in India is even when you are bowling spin in England you typically need to bowl in a different way if you’re going to be successful in India. In England flight and drift is key, but India it’s more about firing it into the pitch. That’s why you’re seeing players like Hartley and Bashir selected - they see them as having the style that suits Indian pitches. But by definition they’re not really suited to English pitches, so they don’t really build up the experience they need. It’s a bit of a catch 22.It's fingers v wrist issue.
We’ll be bowled out for less than 120 in the second innings. Reality is this isn’t a 350 pitch, but a lack of control and just poor bowling generally has given India way too many freebies.
On a pitch so heavily tailored to them and such an inexperienced attack I reckon taking this into the 4th innings is a decent showing. If one of Root, Biarstow or Stokes could've stuck around we might even have posted a decent target.
Rehan definitely has potential with the bat, he’s shown here if he doesn’t just try and slog it he’s very useful.
That’s a brilliant effort from England, even with defeat here it at least gets them into the series.
Shamar Joseph looks handy - Smith and Labuschange as your first two Test wickets isn’t bad.
Shamar Joseph looks handy - Smith and Labuschange as your first two Test wickets isn’t bad.
Looks more than handy! Well done the Windies.
We couldn't. Could we?
Unbelievable stuff. Another wicket for Hartley.
Shamar Joseph looks handy - Smith and Labuschange as your first two Test wickets isn’t bad.
Looks more than handy! Well done the Windies.
Unreal run out by Stokes. To get the speed on the throw from that position was superb.Just a superb natural athlete.
We’ll be bowled out for less than 120 in the second innings. Reality is this isn’t a 350 pitch, but a lack of control and just poor bowling generally has given India way too many freebies.
Yep, would be surprised if it goes on any longer than tomorrow. I am a big fan of the test format, but this is the first time I can feel just a touch of apathy creeping in.
It's probably.because we knew it was going to be a tough tour, but I can't remember an England trst series where the build up has been so low-key. Even down to the team flying in just 3 days before the test started, it seems almost am.inconvenience.
You then look around the world and see horrible mis-matches being played out in virtually empty stadiums and you do have to.question how long this can go on for.
Incredible win. How do you pick between Pope and Hartley for motm?It’s easy. Hartley could have still picked up 7 and England lost the Test match, Pope’s 196 made the most significant contribution in this result. So MotM Ollie Pope.
Good win that.
Before this India had lost 3 tests in 10 years (46 games) at home, they had never lost with a 100 run advantage after first innings.
Pope’s innings is the highest ever in India in an England second innings.
Brave captaincy, a belief throughout the side and brilliant execution.
Good win that.
Before this India had lost 3 tests in 10 years (46 games) at home, they had never lost with a 100 run advantage after first innings.
Pope’s innings is the highest ever in India in an England second innings.
Brave captaincy, a belief throughout the side and brilliant execution.
Blimey I’d like to see what you rate above “good”! Incredible, and remarkable comeback from Hartley.
If you enjoy cricket watch the highlights of Shamah Joseph’s spell to win the game for the Windies. Unbelievable stuff.
Brilliant as Hartley was, and it was an incredible, match-winning effort, we'd have been dead without that Pope innings, one of England's all-time greatest in the subcontinent.
Watching the highlights back some of those Hartley deliveries were top class, the seam position was superb.
Brilliant as Hartley was, and it was an incredible, match-winning effort, we'd have been dead without that Pope innings, one of England's all-time greatest in the subcontinent.
One of England's greatest innings ever given the circumstances I would have though. Only shame was that he couldn't quite get to that well deserved double hundred.
If the pitch does turn out to be a little less vicious than Hyderabad it will place lot of burden on england's inexperienced spin attack.
Looks like a road this.
Looks like a road this.
from what I have read, it tends to be for the first two or three days, although admittedly the sample size is rather small, with only two tests played there before.
I think this pitch will be flat for up to 3 days and then it’ll break up. Batting last will be tough.
I’ve never heard of Bashir (until today’s play), but he could be awesome - a spinner at 6’4” brings back memories of how the extra height made Tony Greig a menace. Rehan seems to have settled in nicely, as of course Hartley, so from a lack of spinners we have a lot of potential.
Bumrah is an incredible bowler. I saw him live once and he’s something else.
Big trouble now, staring down a massive deficit.This match is gone unless England can knock them over for around 150.
Yes more like middle order below were the culprits rather than Indian bowling.
123-3 (25.5 overs) Root
136-4 (27.5 overs) Pope
159-5 (35.4 overs) Bairstow
172-6 (38.2 overs) Foakes
Totally agree. Cannot be 140 behind on a pitch that is only going to get worse after first knock. To get within 110 with our best batter (and bowler?) injured is definitely something to build on.
No Englishman did what Pope did last game and get a big ton (or a ton at all!). That makes a huge difference in mind set, even though Crawley was only 20 away in each inning.
Another positive is we are not 17-2 every game with Root strolling to the crease.
Kholi back for the third test? It will only get more difficult but, win the toss and give yourself a chance.
I wonder if England will play Dan Lawrence if Root is injured? Perhaps move Stokes to four and play both Anderson and Wood. Rahul back as well for the Indians, although where he will fit in I shudder to guess.
Brook is a big miss I agree, but perhaps a blessing in disguise this game as if he was batting 5 England would probably not have started all three young spinners, and, with Root unavailable in the second inning, that would have been a big ask of the two who would have played.
I wonder if England will play Dan Lawrence if Root is injured? Perhaps move Stokes to four and play both Anderson and Wood. Rahul back as well for the Indians, although where he will fit in I shudder to guess.
Brook is a big miss I agree, but perhaps a blessing in disguise this game as if he was batting 5 England would probably not have started all three young spinners, and, with Root unavailable in the second inning, that would have been a big ask of the two who would have played.
I dare say that Foakes (unluckiest cricketer in England), would be taken out of the team to accomodate Brook and Bairstow given the gloves.
Decent fist of it, but that gap on first innings was too much.
Don't care what DRS says. That Crawley wicket is bullshit
Don't care what DRS says. That Crawley wicket is bullshit
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/05/cricket-hawk-eye-england-india-stokes-crawley
Stokes saying the same now. I still don't think that pitched in line at all
Visa issue for Rehan now. This is pretty poor.
From what I've read, this one is squarely on England. Rehan had a single trip Visa leftover from the World Cup when he was a standby and then they've left the country and gone to UAE between tests.
I think I read it on Guardian
Stunning knock from Duckett. Platform is there, really need Root to contribute tomorrow. This is a brilliant series either way, so much ebb and flow.
Stunning knock from Duckett. Platform is there, really need Root to contribute tomorrow. This is a brilliant series either way, so much ebb and flow.
Would obviously like us to win all the remaining games, but a couple of draws would set up a winner-takes-all final test which would be a great proposition.
That is a pretty shocking effort. Root and Bairstow are really delivering nothing this series.Root reverse sweep gobbled up by slip fielder was indeed a shocking effort.
That is a pretty shocking effort. Root and Bairstow are really delivering nothing this series.Root reverse sweep gobbled up by slip fielder was indeed a shocking effort.
Oh dear the wheels are fully off.
I think the pitches have been excellent for Test cricket.
I think the pitches have been excellent for Test cricket.
I agree. I should clarify that by "tame", I meant a far cry from the raging turners they served up the last time England toured.
I don’t think “Bazball” is a problem, this team is miles better than it was 18 months ago. They just played poorly, but they shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I don’t think “Bazball” is a problem, this team is miles better than it was 18 months ago. They just played poorly, but they shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I don’t think “Bazball” is a problem, this team is miles better than it was 18 months ago. They just played poorly, but they shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Exactly, there's got to come a point where we don't follow every loss with a conversation of whether bazball is a problem. We managed to get there with the 'fannying around at the back' under Emery and the same needs to happen with England Cricket.
That Stokes dismissal on the first morning of a test match......
It's not acceptable for a pitch to be doing that
Need both sides to bat on it to really know how good a pitch it is. India have by far the better bowlers to exploit this track. Prepared knowing Bumrah was rested? Or am I being overly cynical.
Really poor to let them get so close to our score. That said if, IF, we get another 100 runs it’ll be very tough for them.
Absolutely pathetic shot from Bairstow
I have sympathy for Foakes here but I’m not really sure what the plan is - we’ll get an unplayable ball sooner or later, particularly for the tail, and we’re not really going anywhere.
Thrown away a promising position. Game is winnable but chances are slim.
India was always going to be tough, but England need to be a bit careful they don’t just become a very soft side. That’s two day 3’s in consecutive matches where they’ve had absolute shockers and lost the game. Really poor cricket.
Before the start of the series due to Indias excellent team and home form I didn't expect much from the tour. It didn't come as any surprise that too many times the batting collapsed again, but England could and possibly should have drawn the series, opportunities were given but lost.
Still some positives from the series including Hartley and Bashirs bowling at times.
In the end the Indian side has better bowling options for the surface. Robinson didn’t even bowl in the second innings - we desperately needed a “ point of difference” and the young lad who unfortunately had to go home, Ahmed, was probably it.
It’s a learning experience for our youngsters but what it has confirmed is Bairstow is not suited to Indian wickets and is batting a place too high. I think they may bring in Laurence for the final game, rest Anderson and the perhaps push Bairstow down one.
Mind you if Robinson takes that catch when Jurel is 59 I think we win the game.
In the end the Indian side has better bowling options for the surface. Robinson didn’t even bowl in the second innings - we desperately needed a “ point of difference” and the young lad who unfortunately had to go home, Ahmed, was probably it.
It’s a learning experience for our youngsters but what it has confirmed is Bairstow is not suited to Indian wickets and is batting a place too high. I think they may bring in Laurence for the final game, rest Anderson and the perhaps push Bairstow down one.
Mind you if Robinson takes that catch when Jurel is 59 I think we win the game.
That's 1 of 5/6 what if moments and sadly we were on the wrong side of every one of them, the Robinson LBW yesterday was another big one, umpire's call for one that turned that much is tough to take.
In the end the Indian side has better bowling options for the surface. Robinson didn’t even bowl in the second innings - we desperately needed a “ point of difference” and the young lad who unfortunately had to go home, Ahmed, was probably it.
It’s a learning experience for our youngsters but what it has confirmed is Bairstow is not suited to Indian wickets and is batting a place too high. I think they may bring in Laurence for the final game, rest Anderson and the perhaps push Bairstow down one.
Mind you if Robinson takes that catch when Jurel is 59 I think we win the game.
That's 1 of 5/6 what if moments and sadly we were on the wrong side of every one of them, the Robinson LBW yesterday was another big one, umpire's call for one that turned that much is tough to take.
Umpires call is not something a batsman can do much about and I don’t go with the Vaughan conspiracy theory.
What a player can take a catch when it’s as straightforward as that one appeared to be. The Bairstow shot choice in both first and second innings was poor, and in the case of Robinson, second innings he didn’t look like he could hold a bat let alone hit any runs. He had already had one review overturned. He’d gone from an assured all rounder first knock to a number 11 second time around.
Anyway. There we are.
You were right Paul. I did understate that win in the first test. I was hoping for a really good series where England applied themselves, played the conditions and won two or three.
Roots LBW in the second innings is absolute horseshit. No way that pitched in line with leg stump
Roots LBW in the second innings is absolute horseshit. No way that pitched in line with leg stump
Roots LBW in the second innings is absolute horseshit. No way that pitched in line with leg stump
but according to Hawkeye itself where the ball pitches is the only accurate point of reference, so no traffic light system. The superimposed lines are for television. Once it strikes the pad it could be off by a fraction because of it being 60 frames a second. And as such the "umpires call" allows for that. Thought Stephen Finn gave a good explanation yesterday.
Bairstow was fantastic in the first year of the new era, like beyond brilliant. But it’s ridiculous that they clearly haven’t entertained making a change given his form this series.
To be honest that feels a bit like what Pope is too. I might be being unfair and his stats prove otherwise, but he feels feast or famine.
To go from 100-1 to 218 all out is criminal, some awful shots played out there. I don't think Bairstow has even reached 40 in this series which isn't good enough.
I think England need to keep an eye on the balance between players feeling comfortable to express themselves and having competitive edge through competition. It’s a tricky one to strike, but it feels a bit too easy to stay in the side at the moment (if you’re a batsman).
I suppose you have to remember that India haven't lost a home test series in over ten years now, so we were always going to be up against it, and even more so with the squad we travelled with. The probelm with Bazball this series, is that for a couple of sessions it's given the team hope of getting something from it, but mostly it's just led to absolutely dismal batting collapses. If you accept it for it what it is, then it's going to win more than it loses. Could we have done better if we'd applied a bit of common sense at times? Possibly.
A terrible end to a rubbish series.
Majority of the series has been poor, brainless batting again today by some who were playing 20/20 game shots. Well done Jimmy on 700 wickets which may well never be reached again by a seamer. Bairstow played a whole series without ever getting into the 40's.
The stuff Stokes says about them being the best 6 batsmen so they have to play is something he needs to be careful with. I’ve said before that being too comfortable is not a good thing.
So the winter season ends with 6 defeats out of 9 in the World Cup, T20 and 50 over series defeats in the Caribbean and a 4-1 mauling in the India test series. Some reflection needed I think.Yup. Can you imagine trying to cheer this lot on in NZ later this year?😥
So the winter season ends with 6 defeats out of 9 in the World Cup, T20 and 50 over series defeats in the Caribbean and a 4-1 mauling in the India test series. Some reflection needed I think.Yup. Can you imagine trying to cheer this lot on in NZ later this year?😥
Big positive from this tour is the emergence of the spinners and the consistency of Crawley (who has shown he’s learnt). But there are lies of areas for improvement and hopefully they’re a little more reflective internally than they appear from the outside.
England have three Tests v Windies this summer before heading down to NZ. It’s a chance to re-evaluate, assuming the main aim is the 2025/6 Ashes.
I thought we were a batsman light in India. My view is Stokes is in the wrong spot. Without his bowling, he has to be played as a batsman. As such I wonder if he could bat at 3. He’s the best technically of all the English team bar Root. If he could turn his arm over if needed all the better, but he shouldn’t be relied upon to have to do so.
That would allow England to accommodate both Pope and Brooke where they both feel comfortable with a long view of Brooke batting at 3, Pope is far too nervy for that spot currently.
Bairstow will continue at seven I suspect. An inferior keeper to Foakes but if it spins prodigiously in either England or New Zealand I would be surprised.
That allows England to play four bowlers. Depending on how long Jimmy wants to go on then it’s perhaps time to encourage some of the new seamers in alongside Wood. Atkinson and perhaps Carse. I can see Bashir fitting in but, with an eye on a point of difference I’d persist with giving Rehan Ahmed game time.
I'd be looking at someone like James Rew from Somerset being given a chance with the gloves.