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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1522504 times)

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5010 on: December 06, 2019, 10:37:34 AM »
People who come out with the "you're not allowed to have a different opinion" line are always those that have a really stupid opinion and don't like it when others point it out.

Offline Ketzster

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5011 on: December 06, 2019, 10:37:40 AM »
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here

Your last post of last season was after Stoke away so don't come the "I'm being driven away" bollocks.

Dave, before you swear at me, may I point out that not once have I claimed to be being driven away. Bearing in mind I’ve donated to the site every year for the last 12 or so years and have just done so again, that’s pretty insulting really

Online ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5012 on: December 06, 2019, 10:39:37 AM »
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.
Agree

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5013 on: December 06, 2019, 10:40:20 AM »
I don't think anyone has been suggesting they want a change, have they?

Not really, one poster has highlighted concerns on Smith, some valid, some OTT.

Yeah, sorry. I hadn't spotted the posts by Ketzster. Also the post that I posted the one you've quoted in response to seems to have disappeared...

So, as you were!

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5014 on: December 06, 2019, 10:43:54 AM »
Fair enough Ketzster, you're entitled to your opinion.  It's not one that I agree with or endorse, but you've put it across in a reasonable way.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5015 on: December 06, 2019, 10:49:39 AM »
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here

Your last post of last season was after Stoke away so don't come the "I'm being driven away" bollocks.

Dave, before you swear at me, may I point out that not once have I claimed to be being driven away. Bearing in mind I’ve donated to the site every year for the last 12 or so years and have just done so again, that’s pretty insulting really

Saying you're not allowed a different opinion and you haven't posted since Christmas because of the reaction you got is much the same thing.


Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5016 on: December 06, 2019, 10:52:58 AM »
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.

Leicester also sacked two more managers before they got Rodgers. The last thing we need is another four in three years upheaval.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5017 on: December 06, 2019, 10:55:06 AM »
I'm not averse to the idea of sacking managers when they're doing badly, I just don't think Smith is.

Online paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5018 on: December 06, 2019, 10:57:26 AM »
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.

Offline Ketzster

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5019 on: December 06, 2019, 11:01:46 AM »
I have noticed a trend on here over recent years. We lose a  game or two and suddenly people seem to lose a bit of sense of reality or lose their shit, maybe a bit of both. Posts like keltzers amaze me really, it's almost as if us getting promoted passed him by completley or the way we were promoted  wasn't good enough for him.

Smith has had to do so much in such a short space of time and it's still a learning curve for him as manager and its also a learning curve for the club as well. Let's just finish out of the bottom three and take it from there.

If Smith stays we go down and there’s no point in getting promoted just to go straight back down. I don’t think Smith is good enough, and I have said that whether we’ve won games or lost games. So it’s not a knee jerk reaction. As my friends have said, I’ve been consistent on Smith all year. He has a long list of mistakes, whether it’s the never changing formation, keep playing Wesley, not making changes during a game, the players messing around on the edge of their own box etc. Why keep playing 4-3-3 when we don’t have the pace to do so for example? Any other manager would would get hammered for it. Especially as they are repetitive mistakes. The notion he hasn’t found his best team yet, he didn’t last season before Derby either. So that’s twice in a year for prolonged periods he hasn’t, and if Grealish hadn’t come back his managerial ability would have continued to be exposed like it was being. He gets a free ride because he is a Villa fan. That’s great from a marketing point of view but doesn’t necessarily mean he is the best manager we could have for where we are. Results prove that. We finished 5th last season, without Grealish we would have finished near the relegation zone the way things were going when we were reliant on Smith to find a way. And this season we have beaten 4 dreadful teams. He’s a mid championship level manager and with the weaknesses he shows that seems about right.


Where exactly have you said it after we've won games because it wasn't here. Instead you seem to have waited until a bad performance away at Stamford Bridge to then come out and say that Smith is shit and has done nothing of note, that you an't even give him credit for promotion reflects a lot worse on you than anyone else.

No I admit I haven’t bothered posting on here for years, apart from briefly last Christmas because I know it’s pointless because I’ll just get a reaction like I’m getting, or like other people that dare say anything would get. Why thinking Smith isn’t good enough would reflect badly on me is beyond me, and it shows that you aren’t actually really allowed an opinion that differs from the parameters of the norm on here

Your last post of last season was after Stoke away so don't come the "I'm being driven away" bollocks.

Dave, before you swear at me, may I point out that not once have I claimed to be being driven away. Bearing in mind I’ve donated to the site every year for the last 12 or so years and have just done so again, that’s pretty insulting really

Saying you're not allowed a different opinion and you haven't posted since Christmas because of the reaction you got is much the same thing.

I can’t be bothered with the grief you get for having a different opinion, so no I haven’t bothered posting. You’ve only got to look at what happened to others that did and it’s just not worth it. Whether they were winding people up or not I don’t know, but somebody who donates to the site isn’t going to be on a wind up.

The Villa are always reactive, not proactive. Look at Southampton when they got Poch, there was uproar over Adkins but they went and got the better manager.

Offline Ketzster

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5020 on: December 06, 2019, 11:04:18 AM »
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.

The changing formation thing isn’t just the starting formation though, it’s the game management changing formation. Surely at Arsenal away for example, he could have tried something different to see the game out? But he never does. No we might not have won but at least he’d have tried something. That’s what drives me mad about him, that he never ever tries anything different

Offline darren woolley

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5021 on: December 06, 2019, 11:16:27 AM »
I love Dean Smith and I think he's doing a great job we will be Ok keep the faith.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5022 on: December 06, 2019, 11:19:51 AM »
I'm with Mr Woolley.

Online paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5023 on: December 06, 2019, 11:21:50 AM »
Smith is far from perfect but the criticism ketzster is giving is so ridiculously over the top that it's not worth addressing directly. The one that particularly annoys me is the 'why won't he change the formation' argument that comes up almost any time any manager has a few poor results. The reason is that changing the formation on a whim, midway through a season very rarely sees an improvement, more often than not the performance levels dip dramatically because the team aren't used to the new shape.

However there are, for me, 2 valid criticisms of Smith right now.

Firstly, he could do better with subs, often making them too late when a player has needed to be replaced for 10 minutes before he responds, this one benefits from hindsight a lot though.

Secondly our performances in the 2nd half don't match the first half. we've scored 12 and conceded 6 in the first half of all our games, that's a very good record and he needs to find a way to replicate that in the 2nd half of games, part of this could be the subs issue but I think there's also been some mental weaknesses at times where the players, collectively, can't seem to believe that they're ahead deep into the 2nd half against Tottenham/Arsenal/Liverpool and that plays on their minds.

The changing formation thing isn’t just the starting formation though, it’s the game management changing formation. Surely at Arsenal away for example, he could have tried something different to see the game out? But he never does. No we might not have won but at least he’d have tried something. That’s what drives me mad about him, that he never ever tries anything different

and if he'd changed the formation, whilst we were ahead, and we'd lost the criticism would be that he changed things for no reason. The entire argument is reliant on hindsight and makes assumptions about the result if the change was made, anyone claiming that a change would definitely have altered the result is, simply, talking out of their arse.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5024 on: December 06, 2019, 11:22:45 AM »
What sort of club would we be seen to be if we fired Smith after all he’s done?
The team does fight for him, there looks like a togetherness. The fans relationship with club and team has been the best for many years. The football is good to watch. We are selling out every week and the bloke got us out of the Division when it looked impossible.
There are so many positive things from the Smith regime.
I am critical of his game management but to suggest we should get rid is truly bonkers.

I like Smith and want him to stay and succeed.  But if he takes us down or we're cut adrift at any point, he should be chopped.  Ranieri won Leicester the title, but looked like relegating them the following season, and after sacking him they'ved ended up with Rodgers and being Liverpool's only challenger for the title this season.  I hope we stay up comfortably and then kick on again next season under Smith, mind.  Which I think we will do, just need to replace the utterly useless Wesley in January and chalk it down to experience.

Leicester also sacked two more managers before they got Rodgers. The last thing we need is another four in three years upheaval.

Agreed, and I hope that it doesn't become necessary.  The last thing we need is to get relegated again.  I don't think it'll happen but Smith and the rest can't sit on their hands in January.

 


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