John McGinn

[pauliewalnuts]

We’ve never had a whiff of a serious offer for him, not even from a top half team let alone a Champions League club.

which doesn't mean a thing in this context. Lots of people involved in the game as pundits, journalists, former players/talking heads, etc were of the opinion that he was playing to a standard and of a style that would improve a team that view missing out on the champions league as a failure. Those opinions don't exist if he's shit, never been good enough for the premier league, etc.

I'm sure the next argument will be that "we watch our games, they only watch highlights" but you only have to go back to some older posts on this thread to see us making similar comments:

I've no worries about McGinn leaving.  I can't see him fitting into a Liverpool or Man City team, and Spurs seem blessed with a few central midfielders.  Man U might fancy him, but seeing as they're struggling to reach the top 6, why would you bother.  We need to build the team around the spine of Mings, Grealish and McGinn, and make sure that as many of the other players as possible are on their level, especially up front.  McGinn's goals should be an added bonus, not our main hope of staying up.

^^^ that was on the basis of seeing McGinn play in the championship though.

He did look very good in the championship, because he's a championship player.

[brontebilly]

He was too good for the championship when he played there, not quite Grealish level but outstanding all the same. Also proven at international level. Prem form has been mixed and now average at best but no player bar Ashley Young is doing well at the moment!

[paul_e]

We’ve never had a whiff of a serious offer for him, not even from a top half team let alone a Champions League club.

which doesn't mean a thing in this context. Lots of people involved in the game as pundits, journalists, former players/talking heads, etc were of the opinion that he was playing to a standard and of a style that would improve a team that view missing out on the champions league as a failure. Those opinions don't exist if he's shit, never been good enough for the premier league, etc.

I'm sure the next argument will be that "we watch our games, they only watch highlights" but you only have to go back to some older posts on this thread to see us making similar comments:

I've no worries about McGinn leaving.  I can't see him fitting into a Liverpool or Man City team, and Spurs seem blessed with a few central midfielders.  Man U might fancy him, but seeing as they're struggling to reach the top 6, why would you bother.  We need to build the team around the spine of Mings, Grealish and McGinn, and make sure that as many of the other players as possible are on their level, especially up front.  McGinn's goals should be an added bonus, not our main hope of staying up.

^^^ that was on the basis of seeing McGinn play in the championship though.

He did look very good in the championship, because he's a championship player.

No it wasn't it was 7-8 games into the season after promition and in response to him being easily our best player a for those games. Either way I said people were talking about him as a Man Utd player (i.e a bit better than the championship) and found a quote of a person who disputed it saying exactly that.

If you want different angle how about this one from the following season?

It was all there last night, in spades.  The arse into the opposition player to send him flying, and the perfectly hit volley from miles out.  I was really concerned about him, as back end of last season he seemed really out of sorts, but glad I got that wrong as well.  I think I'll stick to talking about finance and watches in future, safer ground.

So he had a bad spell of form and got heavily criticised before finding his feet and looking comfortably a premier player again. All I'm saying is why do we have to lurch from extreme to extreme on players all the time? At his best McGinn is good enough to be a top half of the premier player, maybe even playing in Europe, at his worst he's some way short of that, like one of hundreds of players in the last 30 years who've been the same.


Right now he's at his worst since he joined us but that doesn't mean he's always been shit, that we were wrong to say nice things about him in the past or that there's no chance he'll ever be decent again.

[Toronto Villa]

His header looks worse from this angle

https://twitter.com/avfc_aston/status/1579569823788716032?s=46&t=0n1RXkfL8J0L6ZepUhRbgA

[pauliewalnuts]

He looks slimmer from that angle, too.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'd suggest in that case that 7 or 8 games into the season weren't really enough time to judge him. It certainly looks totally different three years later.

[Drummond]

He, like just about all of our players needs a decent manager/head coach in charge to see what they can do.

We've seen enough in the past to suggest it could go either way, with most of our players to be fair.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

I agree Nev. Like virtually everyone else, he looks worse under this manager and whatever system it is he's trying to implement.

Still, he may score the winner at the weekend...

EVERY player we have looks worse under this manager.
Fact.

[London Villan]

Confidence
Where he is played
Burnout
Quality

Are the order of the issues with McGinn.

[LukeJames]

Any clips of the McGinn header/avoid the right foot at all costs?

I watched the first-half in Waxy O'Connors near Lesta Square as I had a ticket for a film at the London Film Festival. Quickly finshed a bottle of Modelo on half-time and made it for the 20.50 start. Turned my phone back on at 22:30 and just knew I hadn't missed anything in the game!

Couldn’t see any but there is this, ‘I know, I’ll head it!” still

I was going to add a tweeted meme response with Gordon Ramsey losing the will to live, but instead, I’ll look forward to the Villa podcast tomorrow to see how many categories wee Johnny makes it into. http://linktr.ee/thevillapodcast

It's so obvious he's going to score that Gibbs-White is already celebrating.

[eamonn]

Paul-e, do you rate McGinn technically?

[ChicagoLion]

I think he could be a useful player if fit, if in the right system if in the right position.

But watching him suffer week after week is cruel.

[paul_e]

Paul-e, do you rate McGinn technically?

In terms of premier league midfielders I'd say his touch and ball carrying is about average, his passing is maybe a bit below and his tenacity, energy levels and battling is a bit above. Overall making him a pretty average, mid-table premier league midfielder. I always thought the idea of him going to a champions league club was a bit far-fetched and I think the idea that he's a championship player is is just as wide of the mark.

What I can't get my head round is people trying to rewrite history and claim that he's never been good enough, never been talked about as an option for top 6 clubs and is holding us back. I have almost the exact same problem with Watkins but in 'black and white world' where everything is perfect or irredeemably shit too many people feel the need to lurch between those 2 extremes.

It's not just players either, Purslow, after 1 bad managerial appointment is a shit CEO who should be sacked by the owners or at least have all footballing matters taken out of his remit. Lange was great for striking a bargain and keeping deals quiet until the player was in the building, now he's shit and has done nothing of any value since he arrived. It's all bullshit borne of frustration that the team aren't playing very well because the manager doesn't appear to be able to get them playing as a unit.

As I said a while back there's a habit on here for things to spiral to armageddon very quickly and once it gets there EVERYTHING has to be shit, there can be no silver linings, no green shoots, no objectivity, just shit all the way down and the only solution is to burn everything down and start again.

McGinn is massively out of form, struggling with the captaincy and seemingly confused by the role he's being asked to play and all of those things are normal for most footballers at times in their career, he just needs to be taken out of the spotlight for a while, be given some coaching to get him back on track and then see how he responds, he doesn't need to be booed off the field, thrown to the dogs by his manager and called shit all over the internet.

[Toronto Villa]

How about a good manager tells him; when you get the ball, don’t stand on it for ages wondering what to do because it allows the opponents defence to get back into position. And why not tell him to stop those stupid lofted passes that are very low percentage plays. Instead he does that week after week. And week after week is fans see it isn’t working and he keeps doing it without risk of losing his starting job. I accept he’s low on confidence and out of form. But the management of him and others has been shocking

[paul_e]

How about a good manager tells him; when you get the ball, don’t stand on it for ages wondering what to do because it allows the opponents defence to get back into position. And why not tell him to stop those stupid lofted passes that are very low percentage plays. Instead he does that week after week. And week after week is fans see it isn’t working and he keeps doing it without risk of losing his starting job. I accept he’s low on confidence and out of form. But the management of him and others has been shocking

That's the sort of thing i mean by "coaching to get him back on track". More generally he really needs to stop trying to make something from nothing on the halfway line. Players that can change a game with a single pass from there are few and far between and he's never going to be one of them.