John McGinn

[Drummond]

A new manager needs to give Mings the arm band back and drop McGinn. Then deal with all the noise that’ll create.

I personally think Mings has been better and more focused  since the captaincy was taken off him.

He was fine before it was done, he just hasn't let it affect him because he's a top pro and a first class human being.

Absolutely this.

[Nev]

Mings appeared to thrive as Captain ( my theory is that he was more popular than the Manager so that's why he took the captaincy off him and came out with that look me in the eye bollocks, wanted to force him out but was scuppered by the injury to Carlos) and as stated above SJM looks the exact opposite.

There were 2 incidents last night that stuck out for me. The first was when he was called over by the ref after a set too between Young and one of their players, he showed scant interest and looked to get back in position as soon as possible, not even talking to Ash. Then, when he was subbed he appeared to avoid the Manager altogether and went straight to the bench.

I maintain that he is still a good player who will thrive, but not under this Manager.

[Drummond]

I agree Nev. Like virtually everyone else, he looks worse under this manager and whatever system it is he's trying to implement.

Still, he may score the winner at the weekend...

[LeeB]

Mings appeared to thrive as Captain ( my theory is that he was more popular than the Manager so that's why he took the captaincy off him and came out with that look me in the eye bollocks, wanted to force him out but was scuppered by the injury to Carlos) and as stated above SJM looks the exact opposite.

There were 2 incidents last night that stuck out for me. The first was when he was called over by the ref after a set too between Young and one of their players, he showed scant interest and looked to get back in position as soon as possible, not even talking to Ash. Then, when he was subbed he appeared to avoid the Manager altogether and went straight to the bench.

I maintain that he is still a good player who will thrive, but not under this Manager.

I remember the incident you mention and it struck me at the time, I can't remember who it was but they were being shithoused by a few forest players and it was Young that got in amongst them to protect our man, McGinn was stood about 10 years away uninterested.

Like you I know he's a much better player than what we're seeing, like many of our players.

[Risso]

Like you I know he's a much better player than what we're seeing, like many of our players.

He isn't though. He's another one who was made to look better for a few games under Smith by playing with an in form Grealish. Even at his "best" he only got 3 goals a season. His passing has always been shite.

[Drummond]

He's better than what we're seeing this season though, regardless of the overall view of him as a player.

[aj2k77]

He's a championship player. This is his 4th season in the top flight now and he's only looked decent for around 6 months of it.

[paul_e]

He's a championship player. This is his 4th season in the top flight now and he's only looked decent for around 6 months of it.

A championship player that had various pundits and former players trying to arrange a £50-60m move to Man Utd 18 months ago?

[cdbearsfan]

I thought he was okay in the first half. Second half, not so much...

[Toronto Villa]

What a useless fat knacker he is. Abysmal passing as per usual, and sod all else useful. Why is he still getting a game? Got nearly as much abuse as Gerrard and was booed off when subbed.

He's an absolute waste of fucking space.

That diving header was one of the worst things I've seen on a pitch in a long time.

He's absolutely shit, not good enough for this level, yet is first name on the team sheet week in, week out.

And those fucking shit loopy crosses. I know that we scored albeit indirectly from one thanks to Ollie’s header and Ash being opportunistic, but for the most part they never work. They are easy to defend against for towering CB’s. And when he gets the ball it’s as if he’s never seen a football before. The hesitancy makes us so predictable and provides time for the opponents to get back into position. How on earth does the manager not see it?

[Risso]

He's a championship player. This is his 4th season in the top flight now and he's only looked decent for around 6 months of it.

A championship player that had various pundits and former players trying to arrange a £50-60m move to Man Utd 18 months ago?

Since when has baseless speculation been proof of anything?

[Drummond]

He's a championship player. This is his 4th season in the top flight now and he's only looked decent for around 6 months of it.

A championship player that had various pundits and former players trying to arrange a £50-60m move to Man Utd 18 months ago?

Since when has baseless speculation been proof of anything?

It worked when people thought Gerrard was a great manager and perfect for the Villa!

[paul_e]

He's a championship player. This is his 4th season in the top flight now and he's only looked decent for around 6 months of it.

A championship player that had various pundits and former players trying to arrange a £50-60m move to Man Utd 18 months ago?

Since when has baseless speculation been proof of anything?

It's proof that it itself exists, i.e. lots of people thought McGinn was good enough to play Champions League football 18 months ago, which suggests he was playing well enough for people to form those opinions. That alone is enough to suggest that he's not a "championship player who's had 6 decent months in his 4 seasons in the premier league". As so often happens he's not champions league of championship, he's an average premier league midfielder who is currently struggling for form in a system which is making it very difficult for a number of our players to play to their strengths.

I'm not even arguing that he's particularly good, just that he's not as shit as some people insist. He's trying too hard, he's giving possession away cheaply through poor passing or getting caught in possession and he doesn't create or score enough goals but he's not shit and we'll make a massive profit on him if we choose to sell him at some point and I doubt he'll ever play in the championship again (certainly not before the twilight of his career).

[Risso]

We’ve never had a whiff of a serious offer for him, not even from a top half team let alone a Champions League club.

[paul_e]

We’ve never had a whiff of a serious offer for him, not even from a top half team let alone a Champions League club.

which doesn't mean a thing in this context. Lots of people involved in the game as pundits, journalists, former players/talking heads, etc were of the opinion that he was playing to a standard and of a style that would improve a team that view missing out on the champions league as a failure. Those opinions don't exist if he's shit, never been good enough for the premier league, etc.

I'm sure the next argument will be that "we watch our games, they only watch highlights" but you only have to go back to some older posts on this thread to see us making similar comments:

I've no worries about McGinn leaving.  I can't see him fitting into a Liverpool or Man City team, and Spurs seem blessed with a few central midfielders.  Man U might fancy him, but seeing as they're struggling to reach the top 6, why would you bother.  We need to build the team around the spine of Mings, Grealish and McGinn, and make sure that as many of the other players as possible are on their level, especially up front.  McGinn's goals should be an added bonus, not our main hope of staying up.