NSWE Investment

[Clampy]

I decided to delete my post. The constant misery and anger is just too draining and it's just not worth it.

[Risso]

I decided to delete my post. The constant misery and anger is just too draining and it's just not worth it.

Too slow, it's in my quote so everybody can see what a monotonous, unpleasant troll you are. Nobody slagged anything off. Just bore off and put me on ignore if it upsets you that much.

[ChicagoLion]

Can you imagine waking up and your first post is to slag off one of the most famous stands in English football?

Can you imagine being such a socially inept, tedious troll that your first thought on waking up in your parent's spare room is to continuously stalk another poster's posts?

Too late Clamps.

[Clampy]

As for the proposed rumours of the move, I can see both sides of people's opinions. I get those who'd like to see us expand on what we already have (that's where I am I think) but I totally see why people think a new place would best. VP is held in a lot of affection for so many but in some places it is dated, I said that a while back when I sat in the Trinity for the Ajax game. As for a move, it all depends on where it  is for some I suppose.

[Ads]

I don't see what's negative about wanting better. For me the "stay put" camp are the negative drag. I like the Holte, but I want better, bigger, more impressive. I want us to have the best ground, the best end in the country. Seems like Risso, Pauline etc want similar because it gives us the best chance of competing. I don't see how that's negative at all, it's ambition, its dreaming, its likely a reality with what has happened ownership/control wise this week.

[ChicagoLion]

That's what I'm meaning though. It's iconic, for us. It doesn't overly matter that it's a pastiche of a pastiche, it's the only stand which looks anything like *that* on the outside. And as much as you could recreate it elsewhere, new build stadia as Chicago lion mentioned are very much done based on a cost-revenue basis. We'd 100% end up in an identikit bowl.

You don't know that that's the case at all.

No we don't know but based on form, do you trust Heck on this?
I know I don't and based on his American sports background we can be pretty sure where he will go with this.

[Risso]

No we don't know but based on form, do you trust Heck on this?
I know I don't and based on his American sports background we can be pretty sure where he will go with this.

I think Heck would ne a very minor part of that side of things. It would be the new guys making the big decisions on building etc, as that's clearly their expertise and almost certainly what they've been brought in to do. I think he's much more on the marketing side, to be honest, and to be fair to him with the cancellation of the new stand, it might be the case that Nas and Wes pulled the plug in the knowledge that they were doing this Atairos deal, and Heck just communicated it, albeit very badly.

[AV82EC]

I must admit to being somewhat torn on the matter probably like a few others.

There’s some innate conservatism in me that likes Villa Park, it’s like a pair of comfy warm slippers, it’s what I’m used to, it’s been apart of my life and many before me for decades, yes it’s had a few facelifts and refurbs along the way but it’s part of my Villa supporting routine and way of life. I love the back of the Holte but hate the fact it isn’t single tier, the new Trinity is meh, the North Stand is an eyesore and shit and the less said about the Witton Lane the better.

But then I remember that as I get older many of the quirks about Villa Park start to grate. It’s inconvenience for travel, the poor and abysmal matchday facilities, the restrictive site that stops us expanding without huge time and cost and annoyance to our neighbours. And then my forward looking rage against conservatism kicks in. How exciting and forward looking our new owners and coaching team are and how having too much of a reach into the past stops you from moving forwards, growing and thriving.

To paraphrase Rinder this club deserves nothing but the best. Ultimately it won’t be up to us but I’d like to think our current “custodians” will think long and hard about what they want to do but make sure whatever it is it lives up to Rinders quote. I’m very much falling on the side of a new stadium somewhere between Villa Park and the City Centre and quite like that idea of the old Gasholders site.

(As an aside if we did move I’d convert the VP site into a stadium for the Women’s team and academy and other sports village type facilities.)

[Clampy]

Then last paragraph from AV82EC is something that crossed my mind as well. I wonder if they will keep VP in some format if we did move?

[pauliewalnuts]

The challenge is going to be that we have to significantly improve our revenue, in the short term certainly, but also long term. If we fail to do that, we're not going to be competing. Everton - for all their current mess - are going to be playing in a brand new 55,000 seat stadium, which you can bet will have top notch corporate and other facilities.

We have to find a way to compete with that for PSR purposes. I just don't see how we do it without significantly improving facilities, and adding a lot more seats, and that is going to mean rebuilding half the ground, at least - and that is if it is even possible to do that.

When you factor in that expense, plus the transport problems then of course you need to look at whether you just go the whole hog and do a total rebuild, at which point the obvious question is, where?

My take on this is that I don't particularly really, really want us to move. The stands are all younger than me, but I like the fact that I am staring at the same rectangle of grass my ancestors were staring at 125 years ago, that means something.

It's more about necessity, because otherwise, if we don't seriously modernise, we're ultimately accepting that we're not going to be competing with the Evertons, West Hams and Newcastles of this world, let alone the Arsenals and Liverpools.

We really don't have much choice.

[Somniloquism]

What is unique about the Holte End? Inside, it looks like any other two tier stand. Outside, they chucked some decorative red bricks up, thirty years ago. None of that would be difficult to reproduce.

Name another stand that looks like it.

Rangers maybe? Who built up the inside to be modern, but kept the old brickwork outside. I would also argue the Holte looks nothing like the previous incarnation which was the stand there for 90 years (and was the only stand Ellis did well on). So why the moan about the modernisation and changing of tradition, whilst lauding a relatively modern stand as a reason to not move (and one that would probably be torn down and rebuilt even if we stayed in the same spot.)

[john e]

I’ve been to most of the new grounds now and I’ve not been to one yet where I’ve said yeah I wouldn’t mind a bit of this
Not a single one even Tottenhams,

If we moved from Villa Park the outcry would be from football fans in general not just Villa fans, we all want improvements, but right now we have a stadium which most of the premiership match going fans are jealous of, it always comes out of best away  ground visited for away fans

In the 60s and 70s we knocked down fantastic old buildings and built shit in their place. Everyone regrets it now But it’s too late
They said then it was progress. It was moving forward we want something better and bigger and ended up with something crap.
Even in my own little town those designers of the 60s and 70s are hated to this day

We could do the same with Villa Park
People who are for the move want a stadium which is different from everyone else’s. But you won’t be designing it you’ll get a bowl like everybody else, it will be nice and shiny and new corporate will be fantastic, but it will be much the same as everything that’s gone before

I don’t want that, and I don’t want to destroy the history we have at Aston Villa

[Chris Smith]

I don't see what's negative about wanting better. For me the "stay put" camp are the negative drag. I like the Holte, but I want better, bigger, more impressive. I want us to have the best ground, the best end in the country. Seems like Risso, Pauline etc want similar because it gives us the best chance of competing. I don't see how that's negative at all, it's ambition, its dreaming, its likely a reality with what has happened ownership/control wise this week.

A lot of assumptions there both in terms of the motives of those who disagree with you and the imagined brilliance of the end product if your hunch on a new ground is right.

The connection of fan to their club is an emotional rather than transactional one. I love Villa Park because it’s tied up with decades of attending - from going with my dad when I was a nipper then with my mates as I grew up and later taking my own kids and getting them hooked and most recently grandson and granddaughter. It’s the pubs I’ve drunk in, the different types of journey I have made to get there and the scrapes I got in as a young man. It’s seeing  games in the third division and in the European Cup.

So I want those that come to have the same and if the people being bought in to oversee the transition are as good as claimed they can achieve all that they want at Villa Park.

[john2710]

I think we'd all prefer to stay at Villa Park & see it turned into a multi-purpose 60k stadium with facilities fit for an elite club that plays european football every season. But I don't think that's easily achieveable. We've made massive strides in 5 years to get close to the top table, but we are currently punching above our weight. We need to sustain that over the next 3 years, within the limitations at Villa Park. There will be a few adjustments to the stadium to bring in more revenue, which some won't like.

We haven't outgrown Villa Park yet, but in the next few years we might, infact I hope we do. Because it can only mean one thing, we've been successful.

[pauliewalnuts]

In the 60s and 70s we knocked down fantastic old buildings and built shit in their place.

*nods*