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I think with Ollie, minus Grealish, this dog chasing cars, is probably all we're going to get.

McGinn has always given the ball away in bad areas. Whether that was Arsenal away when we were punished or today when we weren't. He's just contributed little and less since November.

Luiz is play, bar a few months at the start of last season, like he always has done. He's never a defensive midfielder in a month of Sundays.

All 3 shouldn't be starting every game when fit for us next season.

[SoccerHQ]

Who hasn't kicked on that people thought would?

Here’s a better question. Who has kicked on?

Cash, Marv, Ramsey, Iroegbunam, arguably Chambers.

I think Cash has largely been the same as last season, consistant with occasional moments of rashness.

Nakamba for about 3 games so a small sample really.

Ramsey, yeah fair enough although he should've had a breather at some point in last minute.

Tim's made two sub cameos so while promising far too soon to be making judgements like that.

Chambers good for sure but Konsa is still first choice as RCB when fit.

[Ad@m]

I'd also say that Martinez, watkins, mings, konsa, luiz and mcginn have all carried on the same form as before he arrived and I'd add Buendia as another who has improved.

I can't think of many players who've gone backwards since Gerrard arrived though, maybe Ings.

Martinez, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz and Mcginn have been shite and getting shiter for months.

I don't think any of them are worse than they were when Gerrard arrived (and I don't think Martinez has been shite), I just think some fans have forgotten just how shit we were in the autumn.

I don't think they have, I just think some see Smith's broader tenure as the benchmark, not just the end of it.

It was clear Smith struggled losing Grealish and trying to shoehorn Ings and Ollie in to the same team and by the end he'd ran out of ideas.  But last season he took us to 55 points.  Gerrard's picked up 27 points from 21 games -  a runrate which would give us 48 points over a season.  It's not surprising people are questioning whether that's the progress our incredibly ambitious owners expect.

When you then throw in the fact that almost to a man, Smith spent three years bringing players in relatively cheaply and then developing them, and aside of Ramsey there's very little evidence of Gerrard doing similar I can appreciate why the thought of chucking him another £100m this summer might seem risky.

[markeeeebeeee2005]

That’s exactly where I am Adam. Using five games that got the last manager the sack as the benchmark for success is a recipe for failure.

The owners will likely have loftier ambitions, otherwise what’s the point?

[paul_e]

I'd also say that Martinez, watkins, mings, konsa, luiz and mcginn have all carried on the same form as before he arrived and I'd add Buendia as another who has improved.

I can't think of many players who've gone backwards since Gerrard arrived though, maybe Ings.

Martinez, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz and Mcginn have been shite and getting shiter for months.

I don't think any of them are worse than they were when Gerrard arrived (and I don't think Martinez has been shite), I just think some fans have forgotten just how shit we were in the autumn.

I don't think they have, I just think some see Smith's broader tenure as the benchmark, not just the end of it.

It was clear Smith struggled losing Grealish and trying to shoehorn Ings and Ollie in to the same team and by the end he'd ran out of ideas.  But last season he took us to 55 points.  Gerrard's picked up 27 points from 21 games -  a runrate which would give us 48 points over a season.  It's not surprising people are questioning whether that's the progress our incredibly ambitious owners expect.

When you then throw in the fact that almost to a man, Smith spent three years bringing players in relatively cheaply and then developing them, and aside of Ramsey there's very little evidence of Gerrard doing similar I can appreciate why the thought of chucking him another £100m this summer might seem risky.

My point wasn't about Smith, it was about the players. They were playing as badly or worse than they are now when Gerrard arrived. We had a snall bounce and then a few games in Feb where it looked like we'd got there but in general it's been a full season of talented and experienced players making pub league standard errors and costing us points.

[Goldenballs]

He should be getting much more out of what we've already got here before trying to convince everyone that the players aren't up to it and we need a new team.

For him not to be able to get an open play goal in 4 games from circa £150m worth of attacking talent is very poor. Apart from the first half against Spurs, which was very good, we don't look to have much of a plan or style. If we have an expensive squad that doesn't suit his style, whatever that may be, then why employ him. If the players don't suit his style, then why not try something else that may suit what's already here before slumping in your seat with your hands in your pockets throwing them under the bus.

The team is full of international players, Martinez equalled our clean sheet record last season, I think Konsa was the defender dribbled past the fewest times last season, and that was still without the fabled DM in front of him, and we were all disappointed he wasn't involved with England. But now people are convincing themselves that these players aren't good enough. Maybe they all aren't good enough for Europe, but overall is our squad massively weaker than West Ham, Leicester or Wolves? Or do they just have better managers getting more out of the players that are there.

Smith had a plan that revolved around giving the ball to a world class player and giving him free reign to roam and create as he saw fit. When he was sold, he couldn't adjust and was rightly sacked. Gerrard doesn't have the excuse of having a key part of plan taken away, but has the excuse of not yet having his own players in.

My prediction is we'll throw money at it, do OK-ish, but underacheive relative to what we've spent, and end up back here in a couple of seasons time couple of hundred million pounds lighter. I find the whole appointment strange, seemingly doing everything we said we weren't going to do anymore. If it was a random Scottish dude we picked up from that joke league with the same record as Gerrard, I think there'd be a lot more people questioning the sense in his appointment, and whether time and a huge bag of cash was sensible. Ultimately, he's here now, he will be given the summer and money, so we'll see what happens.

[gpbarr]

If they decide to back him this summer as many on here think is a foregone conclusion, then they must also give him the time to bed in the players he buys ergo, that’s a season.

It’s the firing mid-season that makes so little sense. It reeks of panic and if as we did one changes philosophy then it’s got to be given time.

I’d still like to see us start afresh with a new coach and CEO, but the worst thing we could do is be thinking we give him £100m and then expect results after 10-12 games. It needs to be decisive either way.

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If they decide to back him this summer as many on here think is a foregone conclusion, then they must also give him the time to bed in the players he buys ergo, that’s a season.

It’s the firing mid-season that makes so little sense. It reeks of panic and if as we did one changes philosophy then it’s got to be given time.

I’d still like to see us start afresh with a new coach and CEO, but the worst thing we could do is be thinking we give him £100m and then expect results after 10-12 games. It needs to be decisive either way.

But after 18 or 19 games, we can all scream for him to be sacked.

The most contradictiory of posts.

[SoccerHQ]

DS largely took us as far as he could.

If he'd stayed I doubt we'd have been much higher in the table although perhaps we'd have a more convincing end of the season than what we're currently witnessing.

With every week however it appears we've dropped the ball a bit gambling on manager with little top level experience who also plays a system that really dosen't suit many in the final third.

If we'd stuck with 4-2-3-1 then I can't believe likes of Bailey or Buendia wouldn't have hit some good form at some point, indeed Buendia was playing well at the turn of the year.

We needed a better version of DS from somewhere to kick us on. Instead feels like we'll spend 100m + shoehorning more players into a rigid and limited style and the next manager will want to go back to what we were doing up to last October so there's the fear we're going to be wasting 18 months on this "project."

[gpbarr]

DS largely took us as far as he could.

If he'd stayed I doubt we'd have been much higher in the table although perhaps we'd have a more convincing end of the season than what we're currently witnessing.

With every week however it appears we've dropped the ball a bit gambling on manager with little top level experience who also plays a system that really dosen't suit many in the final third.

If we'd stuck with 4-2-3-1 then I can't believe likes of Bailey or Buendia wouldn't have hit some good form at some point, indeed Buendia was playing well at the turn of the year.

We needed a better version of DS from somewhere to kick us on. Instead feels like we'll spend 100m + shoehorning more players into a rigid and limited style and the next manager will want to go back to what we were doing up to last October so there's the fear we're going to be wasting 18 months on this "project."

This

[pauliewalnuts]

Only put this here because it is vaguely to do with ownership, but Facebook reminded me today is ten years since the club did their biggest social media fail.

I recall absolutely crying with laughter at this fuck-up.

[Percy McCarthy]

Only put this here because it is vaguely to do with ownership, but Facebook reminded me today is ten years since the club did their biggest social media fail.

I recall absolutely crying with laughter at this fuck-up.

I don’t get it.

[Brazilian Villain]

I don’t get it.

I don't recall it happening at the time but I'm guessing that Stan might also be taken to mean St. Andrew's. If not, I'm in the same boat as you.

[rooboy316]

I don’t get it.

I don't recall it happening at the time but I'm guessing that Stan might also be taken to mean St. Andrew's. If not, I'm in the same boat as you.

The twitter feed to the right?

[eamonn]

Paulie's all about the tech/layout angle, so I presume it's the anti-McLeish sweary stuff on the Twitter sidebar.