NSWE Investment

[Steve67]

We've just had some success Clampy.  We won a play off final, and got to another play off final the year before that?  How is success measured these days? We last won a proper trophy in 1996 yet we've had really good seasons inbetween time.  Perhaps this is a different debate?

[john e]

I have no problem with increasing the capacity by rebuilding the North stand area

but we jumped from that which has been talked about for ages to a multi multi million pound purpose built state if the art bespoke stadium holding 60,000 plus in the middle of Birmingham central, with shops, restaurants, hotels and leisure activities on the side

it’s a bit of a jump

[cdbearsfan]

I'm glad we have people more ambitious than Clampy running the club.

[dave.woodhall]

Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

We didn't. We we averaging almost 40,000 and it replaced an open terrace untouched for eighty years.

[Lastfootstamper]

We've just had some success Clampy.  We won a play off final, and got to another play off final the year before that?  How is success measured these days? We last won a proper trophy in 1996 yet we've had really good seasons inbetween time.  Perhaps this is a different debate?

8 Wembley appearances since then, isn't it? Forays into Europe. Top 6 finishes aplenty. Not too shabby, that.

[Clampy]

I'm glad we have people more ambitious than Clampy running the club.

So do I.

[Clampy]

We've just had some success Clampy.  We won a play off final, and got to another play off final the year before that?  How is success measured these days? We last won a proper trophy in 1996 yet we've had really good seasons inbetween time.  Perhaps this is a different debate?

We beat Derby in a play off final at the second time of asking to get out of a league we shouldn't have been in. Now, we have to establish ourselves up in the top flight all over again. A new ground in the meantime can wait.

[Lastfootstamper]

Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

We didn't. We we averaging almost 40,000 and it replaced an open terrace untouched for eighty years.

Briefly before it opened, maybe one season. Otherwise, 3rd division promotion season aside, we'd been a long time in the attendance doldrums.

[dave.woodhall]

Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

We didn't. We we averaging almost 40,000 and it replaced an open terrace untouched for eighty years.

Briefly before it opened, maybe one season. Otherwise, 3rd division promotion season aside, we'd been a long time in the attendance doldrums.

We'd had an average of getting on for forty thousand for over two seasons. Our crowds were holding up, the terrace it replaced was antiquated and most importantly, we had the money.

[Three Spires Villa]

Money into the team first, fill Villa every week for a couple of seasons with a revamp of the North Stand. I never want to leave Villa Park. If we could make it 55,000 plus excellent

[Risso]

Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.

It takes years to get to the stage of having a new stadium.  Nobody is suggesting moving out of Villa Park after one good season.  But it'll be no good, if in 5 years time when we're playing in the Champions League regularly that we decide we need one then, because then you'd need to add on another 5 years.

[nigel]

Money into the team first, fill Villa every week for a couple of seasons with a revamp of the North Stand. I never want to leave Villa Park. If we could make it 55,000 plus excellent

That's probably what will happen.
I mentioned earlier that it wouldn't surprise me if the owners have everything mapped out already. Then in a couple of seasons, if attendances are good, thinge will start.

[FatSam]

The North Stand is old now and not fit for purpose (despite having a brilliant view) and the Witton is tired and cramped. But it doesn't stop people coming.

How do you know that it doesn’t? Perhaps more people would come if it wasn’t tired and cramped, and surely the intention is to attract more fans?

The issue about service is just that, service. With the right level and type of staffing, the offer would be significantly better, in all areas of the ground.

I’m not convinced that this is simply a Human Resources problem. There are some very obvious physical constraints that will continue to mean that not everyone who wants a half time pint will be able to get one for example. That is lost revenue for the club, even before you start to encourage people to make a day of it like Tottenham are now doing.

There's a feel-good factor right now, and hope. I believe we'll be successful, but we can't bank on it. This season is about consolidating our position in the top division again and pushing to finish as high as we can.

Agreed. My point would be that we should use this time to start planning for the possibility that we continue on an upwards trajectory, so that strategies can be implemented if this proves to be the case.

Our owners seem to be clear but let's face it, those clubs who have gambled on bigger grounds have done so on the back of sustained good performance. Everton is the exception and Goodison Park is so tired it's untrue. They've dithered for 20 years.

The FCG minutes suggest that Purslow and the owners are not likely to rush into anything, and remain resolutely circumspect. I wouldn’t want them to be anything else - this is a 145 year old institution. Everton have probably held themselves back if anything though, and have missed the opportunity to be more competitive. West Ham on the other hand haven’t gambled on a bigger ground on the back of sustained good performance, but then they haven’t actually had to gamble very much.

[paul_e]

I have no problem with increasing the capacity by rebuilding the North stand area

but we jumped from that which has been talked about for ages to a multi multi million pound purpose built state if the art bespoke stadium holding 60,000 plus in the middle of Birmingham central, with shops, restaurants, hotels and leisure activities on the side

it’s a bit of a jump

How much would you plan to spend on that? What would you do about the clear problems with the DE stand, ignore them for now?

If we do that and spend £100m on the north stand then it becomes clear that the council/local residents aren't going to let us use any more space so we have to either stick with what we have or move how long do we leave it before moving elsewhere?

This is the why the 'jump' was considered, what are the plans for the club in 10 years time, if it's to be making up the numbers in mid-table in the premier league and with the odd cup run or push for the Europa league then fine, lets just do the single stand, get capacity up to about 45-46k and carry on we have for years. If we plan to be a bit more than that then it's important to have these sort of discussions.

Risso mentions 5 years to do the work, I reckon it's more like 6-8 so we're probably already looking at 2025 at the earliest and we wouldn't be starting anything for at least another year. I want the club to be run professionally, and that includes having long-term contingency planning in place depending on a number of potential outcomes, the best couple of those see us needing a 60k stadium so lets consider it.

[Toronto Villa]

Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.

It takes years to get to the stage of having a new stadium.  Nobody is suggesting moving out of Villa Park after one good season.  But it'll be no good, if in 5 years time when we're playing in the Champions League regularly that we decide we need one then, because then you'd need to add on another 5 years.

Agreed. We need to plan ahead and not stand still because "today" it isn't or might not be entirely justified. And I'm all for Villa Park being it if we can make it work, but to me that's a massive amount of changes to be done and frankly I don't want us playing for a season or two somewhere else. That's why I would rather over the next year evaluate everything and find a spot, if one exists, not too far away and build the next Villa Park. And people love new and shiny and we will attract investment and new fans. it's been proven by other clubs in the PL that attendances go up with a new stadium. The challenge as all clubs who have built a new ground is to remain competitive while financing the new location. But as you say, this isn't something that will happen next season. It's a 5 year project and I would rather we stayed in Villa Park until the very last minute and then move.