NSWE Investment

[The Edge]

 

Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

If it was my money, I’d be getting on with it, because I’d be buying some of the world’s best players and I know for a fact that if we had a team like Man City or Liverpool we’d need a bigger ground than either of them has got at the minute. Only the owners (and people close to them) know the extent of their ambition, but if it’s to constantly compete for trophies and play in the Champions League they should build the new ground or massively increase capacity and improve facilities at Villa Park.

Our owners, without doubt, have the money to, basically,  do what they want.
It wouldn't surprise me if they haven't already looked into options.
As you say, Percy, we'll be looking at better players.
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.
Or redevelop the North and Witton Lane stands. I wouldn't be adverse to the pair being joined as a wrap around, leaving the Holte and Trinity as free standing

If you were going to wrap around a new enlarged Doug Ellis stand to join up with a new north stand surely you would have to wrap it around to conjoin with the Trinity Rd and all at the same height as the Trinity to form a horseshoe leaving the Holte free standing. The Holte could bridge the road in the same way as the Trinity. This would make the whole ground symmetrical and rid us of the uneven sightlines leftover from the previous pennypincher. I'd estimate a capacity of around 55,000. I tried to buy tickets for my son for the Bournemouth game today but it's sold out. Apparently thousands of claret members missed out after ST holders took up the option to buy extras. Everton game selling out fast. There is an unprecedented seed change going on at the Villa right now. I believe this is absolutely the right time to be speculating about our options regarding the stadium.

[Marlon From Bearwood]

Don’t know how thousands of claret members missed out as their sales window was before ST holders were able to buy extra tickets.

[paul_e]

I don't think anyone is playing down the potential of the club, and if they have it's not 'determined'.

It's 23 years since we won anything. That's not a blip. However, I agree that our new owners seem prepared to have a go and also seem, on the evidence so far, to have the ability where Lerner et al didn't.

With regard to Risso's point about a bigger ground for revenue etc, if we sold another 20,000 season tickets to meet demand at £1000 each (more than £50 per match) it would still only be another £20m in the bank. Of course there would be other matchday pint and food sales on top but in the grand scheme of things it's hardly the big money spinner. That comes from sponsorship, replica shirts etc which would happen regardless if we were doing well.

Do we need to upgrade facilities? Yes of course.

Sorry, You claimed people were calling Villa park a shithole so I figured exaggeration was just what we were doing.

I also never called 23 years without a trophy a blip, I said 7-8 years without being top half of the top-flight is a blip (over our history this is pretty obvious or are you arguing that we don't belong in the top half of the league, if the latter I'd like something a bit more considered than no trophies for a while and 3 seasons in the championship).

More importantly though, we all know why it happened and what we're talking about here is raising the commercial income to mitigate against it going forward. No one (again) has claimed that improving the ground will solve that issue entirely on it's own but it is a very important part of the process. You admit that there's potentially £20m in ticket sales (I'd at least double that for corporate and matchday revenue increases) and you admit that the facilities need to be improved so I'm not really clear what your argument is now, are you just being contrary or are you worried what other fans may think if they come on here?

[Ad@m]

We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.

There's literally zero evidence to support this.

Back in the 1920s Villa Park had a capacity of 80,000 but since then we've averaged more than 40,000 six times.  Five of those being before 1950!

When we were pushing for a Champions League place under MON our attendances fell!

I just don't buy this idea that if we suddenly spunk hundreds of millions of pounds on a new stadium or four new stands we'd suddenly be pulling in 80,000 every week and the investment would pay for itself.

[CT Villan]

From a purely romantic and nostalgic perspective I am not in favour of moving away from VP. We have so much history here, so many glorious times (and a few less so) and our ground is unique. Players and away fans alike recognise the history, the tradition and the aura of Villa Park and this is not easily recreated somewhere else - there would be no ghosts of long-passed Holte End heroes in a concrete bowl. I appreciate the need for 21st century amenities but would hope there was a way to develop what we have in keeping with Leitch's majestic designs whilst balancing future commercial needs.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

[The Edge]

Don’t know how thousands of claret members missed out as their sales window was before ST holders were able to buy extra tickets.

I must've misheard or misunderstood the girl. I tried to buy tickets for the Bournemouth match using claret membership and she said itt was sold out and many had missed out. She said there are 7000 members. My mistake.

[garyshawsknee]

As others have said, I don't think we should move from Villa Park, ever. It's so iconic, location is unique, a lot of other supporters admire it, it does need to be modernised in areas and made bigger, but history shows that we wouldn't really need anything much bigger than 50+.

[nigel]

Wolves have just finished in th etop half on the top-flight for the first time in nearly 40 years, they need 4-5 years to show it's not a flash in the pan. We were regularly top half of the league for 20 years and are coming back from a 7-8 year 'blip' of relegation battles and lower league football. The circumstances are very different and we're not taling about qualifying for the champions league this year, just pointing out that we should be considering our options for a new ground given 1 stand is woefully out of date, another is barely fit for purpose and the final 2, whilst functional, have a number of problems that would be hard to resolve.

7-8 years is more than a 'blip'! We've also not won a trophy for 23 years and never played in the Champions League.

I'm not sure why, just because we've finally been promoted back to where we all agree we belong, we feel that Villa Park is suddenly a shithole that needs erasing from memory so we can go somewhere flash.

I'm as positive about our potential future as the next person, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. If it was your money, would you speculate in this way? Just because we have wealthy owners doesn't mean we should get all entitled and demand they spend more.

If it was my money, I’d be getting on with it, because I’d be buying some of the world’s best players and I know for a fact that if we had a team like Man City or Liverpool we’d need a bigger ground than either of them has got at the minute. Only the owners (and people close to them) know the extent of their ambition, but if it’s to constantly compete for trophies and play in the Champions League they should build the new ground or massively increase capacity and improve facilities at Villa Park.

Our owners, without doubt, have the money to, basically,  do what they want.
It wouldn't surprise me if they haven't already looked into options.
As you say, Percy, we'll be looking at better players.
We build a bigger, modern, stadium and the support will follow.
Or redevelop the North and Witton Lane stands. I wouldn't be adverse to the pair being joined as a wrap around, leaving the Holte and Trinity as free standing

If you were going to wrap around a new enlarged Doug Ellis stand to join up with a new north stand surely you would have to wrap it around to conjoin with the Trinity Rd and all at the same height as the Trinity to form a horseshoe leaving the Holte free standing. The Holte could bridge the road in the same way as the Trinity. This would make the whole ground symmetrical and rid us of the uneven sightlines leftover from the previous pennypincher. I'd estimate a capacity of around 55,000. I tried to buy tickets for my son for the Bournemouth game today but it's sold out. Apparently thousands of claret members missed out after ST holders took up the option to buy extras. Everton game selling out fast. There is an unprecedented seed change going on at the Villa right now. I believe this is absolutely the right time to be speculating about our options regarding the stadium.

You could join the 3 stands, I suppose it depends on how high you want the capacity.
The Holte and Trinity is around 26000, so it would certainly be possible for a new North and Witton wrap to match that

[Drummond]

Sorry, You claimed people were calling Villa park a shithole so I figured exaggeration was just what we were doing.

I also never called 23 years without a trophy a blip, I said 7-8 years without being top half of the top-flight is a blip (over our history this is pretty obvious or are you arguing that we don't belong in the top half of the league, if the latter I'd like something a bit more considered than no trophies for a while and 3 seasons in the championship).

More importantly though, we all know why it happened and what we're talking about here is raising the commercial income to mitigate against it going forward. No one (again) has claimed that improving the ground will solve that issue entirely on it's own but it is a very important part of the process. You admit that there's potentially £20m in ticket sales (I'd at least double that for corporate and matchday revenue increases) and you admit that the facilities need to be improved so I'm not really clear what your argument is now, are you just being contrary or are you worried what other fans may think if they come on here?

You're funny.

I know you didn't say 23 years. I'm saying it. I thought you'd be able to extrapolate that just finishing top half is pretty much a shit proposition for building a billion pound stadium. The fans won't continue to come in the numbers suggested if we're only aiming for top half.

We need to win something.

I haven't 'admitted' £20m, I've suggested it as a possible number.

I don't think there is a valid argument to build a new stadium based on what we've seen so far and I'd suggest the owners probably think the same. Xia talked about big plans, but got ahead of himself. I'd suggest you're doing the same.

I don't 'admit' the facilities need improving I've stated it. The North Stand is old now and not fit for purpose (despite having a brilliant view) and the Witton is tired and cramped. But it doesn't stop people coming.

The issue about service is just that, service. With the right level and type of staffing, the offer would be significantly better, in all areas of the ground.

There's a feel-good factor right now, and hope. I believe we'll be successful, but we can't bank on it. This season is about consolidating our position in the top division again and pushing to finish as high as we can.

We've probably got the biggest untapped potential of any club in the land. Our owners seem to be clear but let's face it, those clubs who have gambled on bigger grounds have done so on the back of sustained good performance. Everton is the exception and Goodison Park is so tired it's untrue. They've dithered for 20 years.

[Risso]

Let's look at Man City for a second.  They moved into the new stadium in 03/04

01/02 Won Championship. Average attendance 33,061
02/03  Finished 9th. Average attendance 34,565
03/04  Finished 16th. Average attendance 46,834
04/05 Finished 8th. Average attendance 45,192
05/06 Finished 15th. Average attendance 42,856

The Abu Dhabi owners didn't show up until 2008, and City were largely dreadful until then, but they found a load of new supporters from somewhere.

[Clampy]

Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.

[Lastfootstamper]

Why build the North Stand when our attendances were in the 20s?

[cdbearsfan]

Yeah, West Ham have had loads of success.

[four fornicholl]

As others have said, I don't think we should move from Villa Park, ever. It's so iconic, location is unique, a lot of other supporters admire it, it does need to be modernised in areas and made bigger, but history shows that we wouldn't really need anything much bigger than 50+.

The owners may however want 60-70k, which if we emulate Spurs, Man City should be easily possible.

[purpletrousers]

Couldn't agree more with Drummond really. This time last year we had the tax man knocking on our door demanding payment. A season later, we get up through the play offs and we've invested heavily, we have very wealthy owners which is fantastic but that's it for now and that's how it should be. All this talk of 'I'd rather us play in front of 60,000 fans' and 'thousands are being denied a ticket' makes me cringe and also laugh. We need to get to a stage where 60k people would want to turn up, not just for the games against Man Utd and Arsenal, but every week. For that to happen, we need a bit of success first.

Agreed. I also trust our owners have will scoped out possibilities/made plans that can be enacted when the time is right. So both/and not either/or, innit.