NSWE Investment

[cdbearsfan]

It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!

[Axl Rose]

I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:



The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.

If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.

Ha!

[KevinGage]

The North Stand is what, 42, 43 years of age now?  By modern stadia that's almost historic.

I still have to crane my neck anytime I go past the massive AV initials from the motorway (I really should stop doing that) and it was pioneering when it was built. Many clubs copied the design after but none had quite the same effect.

I'd be happy enough to gut the interior and the exterior facing the carpark, mind. The crosswinds in winter aren't much fun either. Celtic have heated seats in some of their sections, so that might be something to look at.

[FrankyH]

It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!

Okay , the Tram station , the Aston Tavern and the old Aston Hotel.

[DB]

If we stay in the Prem, I can see us doing what Spurs have done, build the stadium on the (more or less) existing site. Unless the owners want somewhere more comercailly attractive, nearer the city centre.

[Risso]

If we stay in the Prem, I can see us doing what Spurs have done, build the stadium on the (more or less) existing site. Unless the owners want somewhere more comercailly attractive, nearer the city centre.

Spurs could do that as they had Wembley to move to while they built the new one.  Where could we play in similar circumstances?

[cdbearsfan]

Alexander Stadium has been suggested.

[john2710]

Nothing would stop me from going, wherever the ground was. But it would be heart breaking to see Villa Park torn down, but if we successful over the next 5 years it will become inevitable.

[Smirker]

Alexander Stadium has been suggested.

This, we could definitely play there. Alexander Stadium, complete rebuild at VP. Problem solved.

[Hinckley Dave]

Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.

[cdbearsfan]

We averaged 36,000 last season in the second tier, and are buying players with the intention of competing with the top teams in the land. We have 30,000 season ticket holders but it could have been many more if the total hadn't been capped. We also have a waiting list for season tickets.

Just about every club in the Premier League gets bigger crowds than they did five years ago. Attendances are only going to increasw.

There is no way we are going to be averaging 35,000 in the next few years.

Anyone who thinks Villa can't compete with poxy no marks like West Ham is probably more deluded than the average Wolves fan.

[brentastonb6]

Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.

I can see what your point is Dave but this is all about potential. When we last won the league our average gate was 33,000. If you’d have said to someone then that we’d be shocking for six years, spend three years in the championship and average over 35,000 they’d have poured scorn on  you too. This is about what we could become with some real business nous and vision at the top which we now appear to have .

[Toronto Villa]

I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.

Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.

I think plenty of West Ham fans said they wouldn't go if they left Upton Park. Maybe a few didn't, but they've still massively increased their support.

And I would bet every one of them who did say that have found their way to go to the new ground and become regulars there. I don't imagine they have lost one fan. The same goes for every single grumbling Arsenal fan, Man City fan, Southampton fan, Brighton fan etc who said they would never watch their team again has. And they got used to it. Not one of them stays at home listening the game on the radio when they could be at The Emirates or wherever out of spite. It's utter nonsense to think that if a spanking new ground was built taking into consideration history and modern top level stadia facilities that any Villa fan would refuse to go.

[paul_e]

Are we not getting a bit Wolves with all this. We've had a bit of relative success and a few more fans are showing interest in terms of season tickets and suddenly we need 60,000 super stadiums in the city centre?? If this was them talking we'd all be taking the piss. Once this season's done and we've lost as many as we've won, finished mid table etc I'm sure season ticket levels will be back to where they were and sell outs will be only a handful of games. Talk of 35000 fans spread out in a 60000 seat ground will sound daft. Optimism and excitement is high right now and rightly we should try to capitalise on this but let's not start making us sound silly by talk of building a Spurs replica in the city centre. And to those who are criticising Villa Park and saying they'd like a move...yes she has her issues, concourse sizes etc, but she still has something special which no other ground has. It's Villa Park, it's beautiful, it has class, it's not covered in advertising, it's a football ground not a stadium, it's full of history and thousands of memories, it's perfectly imperfect, and it's in Aston. A bit like the old Trinity, once it's gone it's gone and whatever you replaced it with it just wouldn't be the same.

Again (because I answered almost exactly the same point a few pages back) the quickest version of this would need 4-5 years to come together. We have some of the richest owners in world football and they're quite clearly not fucking around. Yes it's getting ahead of ourselves but if your assumptions of everything going to shit is wrong then we'll need to have been thinking about it. Every ground is (or can be) special to the fans, I bet there's thousands of Man City fans with memories from Maine Road, but if every decision you make is about tradition and heritage then, to put it as simply as possible, you get left behind and the tag of 'historians' that some fans like to throw at us will actually have some truth to it.

To put it another way, if a new ground, a few miles away from VP, gave us the commercial boost to really push in to the top 6 and as a result we won the FA cup would you be happy that 2-3 generations of Villa fans who've never seen us lift that trophy have a fantastic new memory to cherish? The commercial side is now massively important in setting the club up to challenge for trophies and, for me, the current state of Villa park plays a big part in our commercial revenue not reflecting the size of the club.

[Malandro]

It's a stretch to say that the Bartons is "around the ground"!

I'd be happy to stay in the Bartons until the new ground was built.