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Author Topic: NSWE Investment  (Read 622154 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1035 on: July 28, 2019, 09:49:35 PM »
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.


Well, the whole idea is that MORE fans will be able go, so with all due respect, that's rubbish.
I think you have missed the point.

Yes that's right, it's me who's missed the point.  All the clubs who have moved to bigger grounds and who are filling them are missing out on future generations of fans.   Right.

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1036 on: July 28, 2019, 09:49:43 PM »
I fear change.

Online luke95

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1037 on: July 28, 2019, 09:57:09 PM »
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Perry Barr didn't have 120yrs history behind it nor generations of supporters who consider it as their 2nd home.

Offline Damo70

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1038 on: July 28, 2019, 09:57:53 PM »
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:



The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.

Online VILLA MOLE

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1039 on: July 28, 2019, 09:59:23 PM »
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.


There's a balance, I've taken my kids once (about 18 months ago) and they're not interested in going again partly because they didn't like the ground and didn't enjoy the trip to get home afterwards (to be fair we were in the doug eliis stand and I know the Holte and Trinity are better). If there are options to improve facilities then not doing so because of nostalgia will be a much better way of losing the next generation than some supposed threat that people wouldn't go if we moved (it might be true for a very small number of people but I reckon within a year most of them would be back).

I'm not even advocating moving, I just think that the logistics of modernising the ground where it is would leave us groundless for about 2 seasons, and that would do much more harm than moving, especially if we ended up completely rebuilding anyway (which would probably be needed).

As i posted yesterday, the size of the plot we own is just too narrow, To keep the ground were it is but remove the constraints you'd need to buy out a massive chunk of Trinity Road, Witton Lane and Nelson Road, you'd then have to buy the gardens on Witton Lane and a big chunk of the park. Even then the Witton Lane side would be very narrow after you'd put the road back in (it's a B road so there's no chance you'd get away with not replacing it) so you'd probably extend a bit to take the near side of Holte Road as well.

After all that you could end up with a plot like this:



The niggle is that it'd be pushing on 2040 before you'd bought all that land and got all the permission to move roads, handled all the resident complaints, etc. Liverpool are often used as an example but it took them more than 20 years to complete the process and caused a lot of problems - https://www.theguardian.com/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2013/may/06/anfield-liverpool-david-conn

This is why I'm of the opinion that if we see a realistic need for a 55-60000 stadium then we need to be open to moving a few miles away from where we are.



If my kids didn't like Villa park I would sooner get some new kids rather than a new ground.

ha made me chuckle

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1040 on: July 28, 2019, 10:04:59 PM »
I can not separate the Club from the Location.
I know that there are lots of supporters that will stop going and that means future generations won’t become Villa fans.
It will irreversibly change the Club, I think people should think a bit more deeper about heritage and authenticity and what will be lost.

If you had been watching us in the 1890s, would you have abandoned the club when they left Perry Barr?
Perry Barr didn't have 120yrs history behind it nor generations of supporters who consider it as their 2nd home.
.

No, but you could make similar arguments about Highbury, White Hart Lane, Maine Road, Vicente Calderón, De Meer Stadion and so on. The clubs seem to have moved to new stadia without the world ending.

Given the choice about staying at Villa Park for sentimental reasons, or playing somewhere else in front of an extra twenty thousand people a week, I can't see how anyone could argue that sentiment should be allowed to prevail. It would be the corner shop mentality we used to accuse Doug Ellis of possessing.

Obviously I would rather Villa Park could be expanded to meet our requirements, but if it couldn't, any Board worthy of their position would have to consider moving. I'm not sure how easy it is to expand. Part of me wonders, if it was so easy to expand to have a 60,000 capacity stadium where a 40,000 one used to be, why didn't Arsenal and Tottenham just do that?

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1041 on: July 28, 2019, 10:14:03 PM »
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.

Online VILLA MOLE

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1042 on: July 28, 2019, 10:23:14 PM »
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.


ha ha infairness it is who Doug would get to do it

Online paul_e

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1043 on: July 28, 2019, 10:24:34 PM »
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.

Yep, and, as I said, if you built a new ground you'd have a functional ground to play at until the new one was ready, without that we'd end up ground sharing somewhere or paying extra to have the temporary commonwealth fixtures extended for us and using that (which is also a pain in the arse to get to compared to Villa). Personally I'd have a lot more issues with us playing at a temporary ground for an extended period than I would with us moving to a new stadium, designed with an understanding of the clubs tradition and heritage in mind, that was based in, or near, the city centre.

Offline Risso

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1044 on: July 28, 2019, 10:24:46 PM »
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.

He's right.  You only have to look at the decision not to upgrade the lovely old Trinity, but to knock it down and build from scratch.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1045 on: July 28, 2019, 10:31:06 PM »
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.

Offline Steve67

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1046 on: July 28, 2019, 10:36:20 PM »
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.

Very true, Doug fucked that up.  The Trinity Road stand was a thing of beauty despite it being old.  The North Stand is an abomination. 

Online VILLA MOLE

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1047 on: July 28, 2019, 10:39:37 PM »
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.
Construction pal was telling me that as a general rule of thumb it’s cheaper to start with a clean site than to adjust what’s already there.

Demolition costs for one thing. He’s got an x Reg transit van and has successfully paid off two ex wives so I have every confidence in the reliability of his advice on multi billion pound projects.


He's right.  You only have to look at the decision not to upgrade the lovely old Trinity, but to knock it down and build from scratch.



I look at the Glasgow Rangers main stand and wish we had done something similar
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 10:42:43 PM by VILLA MOLE »

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1048 on: July 28, 2019, 10:39:46 PM »
We are spending a fair few quid upgrading data provision but I’m guessing that is something we have to do to meet VAR obligations whether we are planning on staying at VP for a season or a century.

Online FrankyH

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Re: NSWE Investment
« Reply #1049 on: July 28, 2019, 10:46:38 PM »
There really isn't any architectural merit left in Villa Park, anyway, let's be honest.

Maybe not , but the Holte pub , Aston Hall  and some Victorian architecture  around the ground (Barton Arms for one) to me are engrained in our History.

 


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