Manager suggestions - Now with added poll

[chrisw1]

And this is my main concern about any gamble on a manager without experience in England - could be great, but the price we pay if we get it wrong is unthinkable.

Given you didn't answer last time I asked, who is the manager with that experience in England that you don't consider to be gamble?

Who is it that means that the "price we pay if we get wrong" isn't a problem?

As from where I'm sitting, nailed-on, Championship promotion specialist Steve Bruce is looking a bit like a gamble that hasn't worked, no?

There's loads who would be much less of a gamble - who of those we can attract is the difficulty.  I'm not going to bother listing the current PL & Championship managers who are doing well at the moment as it's pretty obvious.  Nobody would offer guaranteed promotion but plenty who are less likely to be Garde & Zenga type disasters who would see us relegated again.  Even De Boer, who I would have thought would have been a really attractive option, may have put us in trouble given it looks like it will take him time to settle into the English leagues.  If we appointed him now and lost 4 on the bounce we'd be in a desperate position.

[Damo70]

Let's just give the job to Nigel Pearson,bring back Roy Keane as his assistant and bring in Joey Barton as coach. I can't see us going up or down so let's just have some fun.

[paul_e]

Nothing like a continental name such as Garcia to get people who had never heard of him 24 hours ago to be utterly convinced he is the man for us.  It's so much more exotic than Monk & Rowett, surely he'll deliver us to the promised land?

Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)

Yep getting excited because he's foreign is all it is, nothing to do with him having been part of the best coaching setup in the world (at Barca) or the fact that people have had a look at the style of play his teams and decided he looks a good option.  Even better you then give 2 names that most people on here would be largely in favour of if they were seriously linked.  Where there's been criticism of British 'usual suspects' has been around names like Allerdyce, Pardew, Moyes and their ilk who are from the same school as Bruce.

The point I was making, albeit pretty tongue in cheek, is that a continental name always punches well above it's weight in the excitement stakes.  I do think if we end up with another Garde we're in big danger of being relegated, so  a Monk / Rowett type would be a lot safer, if less exciting.

but it's a meaningless point because there's no more or less risk in appointing Rowett or Monk (who've never managed clubs with the same level of expectation/pressure).  Not knowing the league is a risk but too often in recent years we've used it as a line in the sand and gone for 'safe' bets who've failed.  The only 'left field' choice we'vemade is the one you name but what about the failures of McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, RDM and Bruce who were all Monk/Rowett types in that they were managers who knew the league and had some form of 'success' (in quotes because it's subjective in every case) that justified them as a good choice.

[chrisw1]

Nothing like a continental name such as Garcia to get people who had never heard of him 24 hours ago to be utterly convinced he is the man for us.  It's so much more exotic than Monk & Rowett, surely he'll deliver us to the promised land?

Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)

Yep getting excited because he's foreign is all it is, nothing to do with him having been part of the best coaching setup in the world (at Barca) or the fact that people have had a look at the style of play his teams and decided he looks a good option.  Even better you then give 2 names that most people on here would be largely in favour of if they were seriously linked.  Where there's been criticism of British 'usual suspects' has been around names like Allerdyce, Pardew, Moyes and their ilk who are from the same school as Bruce.

The point I was making, albeit pretty tongue in cheek, is that a continental name always punches well above it's weight in the excitement stakes.  I do think if we end up with another Garde we're in big danger of being relegated, so  a Monk / Rowett type would be a lot safer, if less exciting.

but it's a meaningless point because there's no more or less risk in appointing Rowett or Monk (who've never managed clubs with the same level of expectation/pressure).  Not knowing the league is a risk but too often in recent years we've used it as a line in the sand and gone for 'safe' bets who've failed.  The only 'left field' choice we'vemade is the one you name but what about the failures of McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, RDM and Bruce who were all Monk/Rowett types in that they were managers who knew the league and had some form of 'success' (in quotes because it's subjective in every case) that justified them as a good choice.

I don't thisnk they are all Monk / Rowett types at all.  The closest to them is probably Lambert, who was very much the popular choice - a good up and coming young manager, pretty universally respected and most on here wanted him.  McLeish was just a fucking stupid appointment and doesn't fit into any category that we are discussing.  Sherwood actually did a short term job, but I don't think anybody saw him as a good tactical coach.  Lots of us had reservations about RDM - I think Xia's head was turned by the CL medal.  And yes, lots of us thought Bruce was a pretty safe bet - let's face it we were in terminal decline and a number of managers had failed to stop it.  Again, I don't see any relationship to to a young manager like Monk for example.

[Clark W Griswold]

I think with the way it's gone in recent years, anyone who truly believes that they can be sure a particular manager or a particular category of manager will definately fail / will definately be great must be a bit deluded. There seems to be a lot of argument on here when the current situation is far from black and white. If people have a hunch or gut feeling that's one thing, but who can be sure? My gut feeling on particular names is that Alladyce would do better than Bruce and that the Spanish fella would be like a rabbit in the headlights but accept anyone who's gut feeling is the opposite.

[Monty]

Well he is foreign and probably don't like it up 'im.

[LeeB]

Well he is foreign and probably don't like it up 'im.

Can he manage on a wet Tuesday against Middlesborough?

[Matt Collins]

I think with the way it's gone in recent years, anyone who truly believes that they can be sure a particular manager or a particular category of manager will definately fail / will definately be great must be a bit deluded. There seems to be a lot of argument on here when the current situation is far from black and white. If people have a hunch or gut feeling that's one thing, but who can be sure? My gut feeling on particular names is that Alladyce would do better than Bruce and that the Spanish fella would be like a rabbit in the headlights but accept anyone who's gut feeling is the opposite.

Exactly - top post

None of us really know

It's idiotic to say Bruce is a hopeless manager 

It's idiotic to say that literally anyone else would definitely do better

It's idiotic to say he guarantees promotion (not that anyone is any more)

[FranzBiberkopf]

Well he is foreign and probably don't like it up 'im.

Indeed. Nor will he like it on a cold midweek game in somewhere like Preston.

Rowett would be my choice. Not that I think he'd leave Derby. I have no basis for that other than my gut instinct that "he'd do alright at our place".

[paul_e]

I don't thisnk they are all Monk / Rowett types at all.  The closest to them is probably Lambert, who was very much the popular choice - a good up and coming young manager, pretty universally respected and most on here wanted him.  McLeish was just a fucking stupid appointment and doesn't fit into any category that we are discussing.  Sherwood actually did a short term job, but I don't think anybody saw him as a good tactical coach.  Lots of us had reservations about RDM - I think Xia's head was turned by the CL medal.  And yes, lots of us thought Bruce was a pretty safe bet - let's face it we were in terminal decline and a number of managers had failed to stop it.  Again, I don't see any relationship to to a young manager like Monk for example.

Which all says that every manager is different and the needs of the club are different.  Which all makes your original comment (and subsequent clarification) pointless.  The right choice for manager next time shouldn't be someone who fits neat little box like 'knows the league' or 'British' and comments about Garcia are exciting partly for the reasons I've already given but far more importantly because, if it's true, it shows that the board might actually be on the right page eventually and it suggests the pool we'll pick from won't just be the same old shite that lots of people seemed to expect.  On that point ...

It's idiotic to say Bruce is a hopeless manager 

It's idiotic to say that literally anyone else would definitely do better

It's idiotic to say he guarantees promotion (not that anyone is any more)

No it's it's not, as Aston Villa manager Bruce has been largely hopeless.  If he left tomorrow what positives would there be from his time here?

I agree, but seeing as no one is saying that I don't get the argument but it appears to be another round of you dismissing anyone decent, looking at the shit tha'ts left and saying you don't like it so stick with Bruce.

It's idiotic to say anyone guarantees anything, but it doesn't stop people saying that British managers who know the league are a safer set of hands than pesky foreigners like Garde and that we'd be as likely to go down as improve if we go that way.

[chrisw1]

I can't see how anyone could be less safe than Garde frankly Paul.  You clearly don't get the point which was simply, chuck a foreign name on here (whether its a player or manager) and the excitement levels go through the roof often from people who had never heard of the bloke 24 hours earlier.  Their are countless examples of this, Garde just being the most extreme.  I accept your own judgement may be based on more than this but that doesn't invalidate the general point.

But yes, I do absolutely think that Monk (for example) would be a far safer bet for us in our current position than a young foreign manager with no experience of our leagues.

[passitsideways]

The problem I have is that past experience with English football seems to be given far too much weight in these discussions - it applies both to players and managers. Sure, if you had two otherwise-identical candidates, you would take the one who has the added attribute of experience in English football.

Easy to say now, of course, but Marco Silva vs Rowett back when Hull was looking for a manager last season should have been an absolute pisser, yet plenty of people backed the latter because apparently he deserved a chance for doing an okay job at Birmingham.

[Clark W Griswold]

Monk has got something of a shit eating grin mind. If a little bit of that came out after a 3-0 defeat at Millwall or similar it might be a boot through the TV moment.

[FranzBiberkopf]

yet plenty of people backed the latter because apparently he deserved a chance for doing an okay job at Birmingham.

Personally I think Rowett did somewhat more than an "okay" job at the Blues - he did wonders there. They were in turmoil when he joined, and when he left they were completely shambolic and relegation bound under Zola.

Of course, thats not guarantee that he'd make a good fist of it at our place (see McLeish. See Bruce).

[passitsideways]

yet plenty of people backed the latter because apparently he deserved a chance for doing an okay job at Birmingham.

Personally I think Rowett did somewhat more than an "okay" job at the Blues - he did wonders there. They were in turmoil when he joined, and when he left they were completely shambolic and relegation bound under Zola.

Of course, thats not guarantee that he'd make a good fist of it at our place (see McLeish. See Bruce).

Fine, I'm willing to accept that upgraded assessment, but even so, you could easily argue that it was still dwarfed by Silva's achievements.