Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on August 13, 2017, 10:55:33 AM
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Even the most supportive of Bruce fans can see this is going to only end one way, it's seemingly only a matter of when. So with that in mind who would be the realistic candidates?
I assume FFP does not relate to what we pay managers.
I personally would go and prise jokanovic from Fulham. He plays excellent fast paced attacking football and has been quoted at being frustrated at Fulham.
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Can we actually attract managers from the likes of Fulham anymore ?
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Even the most supportive of Bruce fans can see this is going to only end one way, it's seemingly only a matter of when. So with that in mind who would be the realistic candidates?
I assume FFP does not relate to what we pay managers.
I personally would go and prise jokanovic from Fulham. He plays excellent fast paced attacking football and has been quoted at being frustrated at Fulham.
FFP relates to everything at the club I thought? Any expense that affects our profit and loss this season will affect FFP.
Fortunately the boring potato is only on a rolling 1 year contract, so he won't be too expensive to fire.
Manager wise, I give up, I haven't a clue anymore. The players purchased over the last 12 months though are going to make it a very tough job no matter what. There's no pace or ability to beat a man in any of them.
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Claude Puel
Yes we will attract managers because we pay loads. Why do you think de Boer has foregone Champions League football to manage Palace?
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Claude Puel
Yes we will attract managers because we pay loads. Why do you think de Boer has foregone Champions League football to manage Palace?
Problem is we're a second division club with FFP problems. Palace are a club generating probably the best part of £100m a year more than we are.
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I think we need to wake up, realise the situation we're in and get a manager like Allardyce or Warnock. We've worked around these type of managers because they aren't fashionable and people would "rather be in the championship than go up with Allardyce in charge". I would rather get up and worry about the rest then.
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I think we need to wake up, realise the situation we're in and get a manager like Allardyce or Warnock. We've worked around these type of managers because they aren't fashionable and people would "rather be in the championship than go up with Allardyce in charge". I would rather get up and worry about the rest then.
That is exactly the thinking behind hiring Bruce though.
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Dean Smith.
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Claude Puel
Yes we will attract managers because we pay loads. Why do you think de Boer has foregone Champions League football to manage Palace?
Are we literally the only club in world football who mentions FFP on weekly basis and is worried about? A bit like we are the only club in history to be punished for tapping up a player in James Beattie.
Problem is we're a second division club wit FFP problems. Palace are a club generating probably the best part of £100m a year more than we are.
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The Serbian fellow at Fulham got Watford up.
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I think we need to wake up, realise the situation we're in and get a manager like Allardyce or Warnock. We've worked around these type of managers because they aren't fashionable and people would "rather be in the championship than go up with Allardyce in charge". I would rather get up and worry about the rest then.
This is very similar to what people said about Bruce. First off, we don't have the squad to play Allardyce's or Warnock's football, as we don't have the squad to play Bruce's. Secondly, the club needs a bit more reform and direction than 'patch it up, muddle along and hope we muddle up the table.'
Enough short-termism, enough British-knows-best, enough old boys network, enough back-to-basics, enough 'he did alright at Bolton/Chesterfield/Swanage/whatever'. Maybe if we actually tried to join the century we're living in we'd do better.
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It's because as far as I know we're the only club England so fucked by FFP. We've spent a fortune to be this shit, which in its own way is quite impressive.
Plus before now the only sanctions for clubs that broke FFP rules were fines and a transfer embargo, now it can be anything including points deductions, denied promotion and so on.
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Jokanovic or Sean Dyche.
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Peter Reid.
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Claude Puel
Yes we will attract managers because we pay loads. Why do you think de Boer has foregone Champions League football to manage Palace?
Are we literally the only club in world football who mentions FFP on weekly basis and is worried about? A bit like we are the only club in history to be punished for tapping up a player in James Beattie.
Problem is we're a second division club wit FFP problems. Palace are a club generating probably the best part of £100m a year more than we are.
Unfortunately we are literally the only club in the Championship who have posted losses of over £100m the last two seasons.
Gabby's wage of £50k a week was nearly half of Brentfords entire turn over for the previous season. We are ridiculous.
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Jokanovic or Smith please. At least when they fail we can remember not pining for nuclear war when we watch the match. The nuclear war might actually be the thing that prevents us from going up.
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I get the similarities to the Bruce appointment but I do think there is a difference in that Bruce plays the same and is reluctant to change. Don't forget he doesn't believe in tactics or whatever he said. With Allardyce, we will assess each game, the oppositions weaknesses. He did play long ball at Bolton because that was the effective method at that time. He didn't play that way all the time at West Ham or with Defoe up front at Sunderland. I really think he has more tactical knowledge than Bruce and would get us up.
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I get the similarities to the Bruce appointment but I do think there is a difference in that Bruce plays the same and is reluctant to change. Don't forget he doesn't believe in tactics or whatever he said. With Allardyce, we will assess each game, the oppositions weaknesses. He did play long ball at Bolton because that was the effective method at that time. He didn't play that way all the time at West Ham or with Defoe up front at Sunderland. I really think he has more tactical knowledge than Bruce and would get us up.
He would definitely be better than Bruce, but haven't we suffered enough?
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Dr Tony essential interview questions:
Would you play Gabby? Yes. Fail.
Would you play Micah? Yes. Fail.
Would you buy five players for the same position? Yes. Fail.
Do you like. Steve Bruce's style of football? Yes. Fail.
Are you Alan Pardew.Yes. Fail.
Do you like U2? Yes. Fail.
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I get the similarities to the Bruce appointment but I do think there is a difference in that Bruce plays the same and is reluctant to change. Don't forget he doesn't believe in tactics or whatever he said. With Allardyce, we will assess each game, the oppositions weaknesses. He did play long ball at Bolton because that was the effective method at that time. He didn't play that way all the time at West Ham or with Defoe up front at Sunderland. I really think he has more tactical knowledge than Bruce and would get us up.
He would definitely be better than Bruce, but haven't we suffered enough?
More and more I'm feeling this. I want Villa to win every match, every trophy, every tackle, every best-pies-in-football competition. However, this Summer of Money has left me more disillusioned than ever (I read in today's Times that PSG are signing Mbappe for even more than they signed Neymar? Can that be right??). 'Success' for me doesn't just mean getting back to the Premier League and a return to glory days of plodding our way to 16th in a season resembling that old description of war as 'months of boredom punctuated by moments of extreme terror'.
If being in the top division realistically brings us no closer to actually achieving success, then all I want is entertainment and reason to hope that we might be fun to watch for a while to come. It just so happens that that style also brings results at least as well as anglo boredom, so why not try it?
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I get the similarities to the Bruce appointment but I do think there is a difference in that Bruce plays the same and is reluctant to change. Don't forget he doesn't believe in tactics or whatever he said. With Allardyce, we will assess each game, the oppositions weaknesses. He did play long ball at Bolton because that was the effective method at that time. He didn't play that way all the time at West Ham or with Defoe up front at Sunderland. I really think he has more tactical knowledge than Bruce and would get us up.
He's a completely different prospect to Bruce. The only similarities are he's English and he's been around the block. He would have a definite pattern of play in mind and would have us fully prepared.
We're in a pickle that seemingly only Aston Villa could get itself into. We're going to have trouble attracting the Wagners and Jokanovics of this world, because why would they come here? Then, if we can tempt them to join, we are so impatient for any success they'll have around one season to get it right before they are hounded out like the others.
I fear their way of doing things will require longer-term rebuilding here - fine if we're already in the PL - but what we actually need right now is a short term fix to get us out of the Championship. The games are already running out.
We're caught between two worlds and may have to settle for an unattractive option (literally) like Allardyce to turn us into a team capable of going up, before we get that 'progressive' manager we need.
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Captain, Leader, Legend, Villa Manager.....
It'll happen.
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Dr Tony essential interview questions:
Would you play Gabby? Yes. Fail.
Would you play Micah? Yes. Fail.
Would you buy five players for the same position? Yes. Fail.
Do you like. Steve Bruce's style of football? Yes. Fail.
Are you Alan Pardew.Yes. Fail.
Do you like U2? Yes. Fail.
Would you play Alan Hutton? Yes. Fail
Would you give Alan Hutton a contract extension? Yes. Fail
Will you buy more midfielders and shunt them out to the left? Yes. Fail
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Captain, Leader, Legend, Villa Manager.....
It'll happen.
If it did happen I'd say we've almost hit rock bottom in the comical club stakes.
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I was one of those who was relatively happy with the Bruce appointment but he's just as bad as the rest of them, when he was appointed there were quite a few on here who were obviously looking forward to being able to say "told you" when things didn't improve, I was one of those who thought he might turn things round and was probably the best we could get at the time.
The Fulham manager would be great wouldn't surprise me if Curbishley or Brian Little were the next manager of our basket case of a club. Or of course John fucking Terry.
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Jokanovic please. Do what it takes.
If not then Smith. But it will be Terry won't it.
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Will Terry be:
. The first full kit manager wanker?
. Pulis type trackies and trainers?
. Antonio Contre suited and booted?
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Jokanovic for me - break the bank. Otherwise Karanka managed to get Middlesbrough up with a worse squad than we have.
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Id go for the Fulham boss , don't think he is happy with his owners so could be a possibility
I liked Stam last year but as he wants Bacuna , Id cross him off.
Dean Smith's football style looks pretty good to be fair and he is Villa of course so would not be against this one but could see the board going for a Pardew , Moyes or Big Sam to be honest.
The Huddlesfield manager would only be possible if they are bottom 3 in Feb but then It will be too late for Villa by then anyway as we need to get up this season so SB needs going now.
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Jokanovic or Dean Smith for me 100%
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The biggest fucking mentalist bastard you can find who'll whip these fucking wastes of space into shape.
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We need a Ron Saunders type who love sexy football and have modern tactics and methods.
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Someone who knows how long he's been in the job would be nice.
Someone who has a vague idea of what tactics we will use and what style of play we'll be using.
I'd like Dean Smith but would hate to think of a Villa man looking on the brink of despair in 12 months because he can't get a tune out of those lazy, fat wasters.
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We need a Ron Saunders type who love sexy football and have modern tactics and methods.
I think Ray Graydon retired.
Sean Dyche at Burnley is the obvious one, but can't see it happening (plus he payed money for Westwood).
Jocanivic seems pretty good, Karanka did well at Boro.
Allerdyce would get us promoted.
Dean Smith would be a popular choice, but not sure he is ready for the step up yet.
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BFR
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John Sitton
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I get the similarities to the Bruce appointment but I do think there is a difference in that Bruce plays the same and is reluctant to change. Don't forget he doesn't believe in tactics or whatever he said. With Allardyce, we will assess each game, the oppositions weaknesses. He did play long ball at Bolton because that was the effective method at that time. He didn't play that way all the time at West Ham or with Defoe up front at Sunderland. I really think he has more tactical knowledge than Bruce and would get us up.
He's a completely different prospect to Bruce. The only similarities are he's English and he's been around the block. He would have a definite pattern of play in mind and would have us fully prepared.
We're in a pickle that seemingly only Aston Villa could get itself into. We're going to have trouble attracting the Wagners and Jokanovics of this world, because why would they come here? Then, if we can tempt them to join, we are so impatient for any success they'll have around one season to get it right before they are hounded out like the others.
I fear their way of doing things will require longer-term rebuilding here - fine if we're already in the PL - but what we actually need right now is a short term fix to get us out of the Championship. The games are already running out.
We're caught between two worlds and may have to settle for an unattractive option (literally) like Allardyce to turn us into a team capable of going up, before we get that 'progressive' manager we need.
I think we need to do the rebuilding in the Championship. If you look at the most successful recent promoted teams (with the insane exception of Leicester), they did their groundwork in this division to be ready for the top division - Swansea, Bournemouth, Southampton, it's all based on long term planning. I want that. And I really don't want another 'well he'll get them organised' manager because that's just not enough.
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Much as I love the idea of Dean Smith, I know a fair few Walsall fans who weren't fans of his, especially towards the end of his time there. Personally, I would like Jokanovic just because Fulham looked like such drivel when they first got relegated and now they look brilliant. That may not translate to the best results in the division but screw it, I want to be entertained by a Villa team again before I die.
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Probably stating the bleeding obvious here, but in my opinion the coaching set up is just as, if not more so, important than who is actually in charge. I am reliably informed (this isn't me being all ITK by the way) that Bruce doesn't do all that much on the training ground - its taken by Clemence and Calderwood - and the question is, how good are they? My answer to that is 'not very'.
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If bruce does go then the next appointment really will be our last roll of the dice.
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Id go for the Fulham boss , don't think he is happy with his owners so could be a possibility
I liked Stam last year but as he wants Bacuna , Id cross him off.
Dean Smith's football style looks pretty good to be fair and he is Villa of course so would not be against this one but could see the board going for a Pardew , Moyes or Big Sam to be honest.
The Huddlesfield manager would only be possible if they are bottom 3 in Feb but then It will be too late for Villa by then anyway as we need to get up this season so SB needs going now.
If he's bottom 3 at Christmas then he probably isn't the right man.
I have absolutely no idea who I want but it has to be somebody with the strength of personality and more importantly character required to handle the job without being an all mouth and nothing to back it up type like Sherwood. I take Monty's point about being entertained first and worry about the results later but unfortunately the business of football does not allow for that at a club the size of Villa.
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There is no chance whatsoever that Dyche would come. Others in a job would also be very difficult 2 games into the season. We'll be really scraping the barrel if we pull the trigger now.
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We need a dose of Sherwood's enthusiasm and gall coupled with an actual brain.
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Jokanovic or Sean Dyche.
Why on earth would Dyche want to come?
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We need a dose of Sherwood's enthusiasm and gall coupled with an actual brain.
Jockanavic it is, then.
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There is no chance whatsoever that Dyche would come. Others in a job would also be very difficult 2 games into the season. We'll be really scraping the barrel if we pull the trigger now.
We probably will, but not pulling the trigger now would be even worse.
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As this is the most important season for a very long time then then people are looking for a change, desperate situation calls for desperate decision (?) In any other season I doubt we would be talking about changing manager now.
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I am with Monty on this. If we are doomed never to be promoted like Forest and Leeds let's enjoy our games. This football diet of spuds, cabbage and pig's feet (waiter do you have pig's feet? No sir, it's the shoes) is killing me. How about accepting defeat providing we are entertained. Let's get a manager who is not terrified of losing but is terrified of getting the Bolton treatment for inflicting endless boredom on us. Actually, playing Samba at centre forward against Hull was the only unpredictable thing Bruce has ever done in his time with us.
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As stated by Des,the most essential part of the equation, is that we get someone whom can bring with him his own proven coaching team.Whatever happens at BMH ,appears to be to the detriment of previously proven players.
For all their failures,neither Sherwood,Garde nor Bruce have rocked up with their first choice coaching teams.In fact,I'd suspect that only Lambert and Pubey have had that luxury at the beginning of their tenure.Attempting to change at this time of the season is going to be problematic in this regard...and expensive.
Jokanovic appears to tick most of the checklist,but he's going to be extremely expensive in these terms to prise away.Or rather his team is on top
Which leads us to essentially two modes of action...Do we look for the (semi) proven,English speaking,English knowledge based,preferably unemployed, option of an Allardyce,Karanka or Pardew....All, despite their limitations have proven to improve teams on a short term basis and all would be interested.
Jokanovic,just like Martinez and Sousa at Swansea,just like Pochitetto and Koeman at Southampton was a leap by Watford into the unknown.They have had 6 managers in the past 7 years...everyone has built on the past one,and dragged them to near the top of the relatively mid table league upstairs.Despite
renewing a squad every season they have overtaken us in a similar fashion to Southampton.A 21st century approach to management,style and player recruitment has left us in their wake.
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Brian, I get what you are saying but I'm not willing personally to lower expectations even further to the point of accepting defeat as long as we play some decent stuff. The road back will not be taken by accepting defeat. The day we do that we might as well shut up shop as we will be nothing more than a poor value entertainment venue.
I'm at my lowest ebb with Villa right now.
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There's a Englishman doing well in Sweden, trouble is he's a ex Blue Graham Potter, his team have just knocked Galatassary out of Europe.
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Bielsa please. He can bring a young coach with him to become the next Guardiola/Pochettino.
He's mental and plays great football. Given full autonomy and some money he could change the club's identify forever. Equally likely to leave in strop after 3 months though.
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I am with Monty on this. If we are doomed never to be promoted like Forest and Leeds let's enjoy our games. This football diet of spuds, cabbage and pig's feet (waiter do you have pig's feet? No sir, it's the shoes) is killing me. How about accepting defeat providing we are entertained. Let's get a manager who is not terrified of losing but is terrified of getting the Bolton treatment for inflicting endless boredom on us. Actually, playing Samba at centre forward against Hull was the only unpredictable thing Bruce has ever done in his time with us.
Do you seriously think Dr T has spent all that money just to settle for that?
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More convinced than ever that Bruce will be sacked and John Terry will be our next manager.
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Which leads us to essentially two modes of action...Do we look for the (semi) proven,English speaking,English knowledge based,preferably unemployed, option of an Allardyce,Karanka or Pardew....All, despite their limitations have proven to improve teams on a short term basis and all would be interested.
Not sure it is fair to include Karanka in the same category as those two. He was exactly the kind of leap into the unknown by Middlesbrough that you were talking about.
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More convinced than ever that Bruce will be sacked and John Terry will be our next manager.
yes with Lampard as assistant
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Bielsa please. He can bring a young coach with him to become the next Guardiola/Pochettino.
He's just joined Lille in France. Won their first game of the season last week. Read and weep:
LOSC already look like a real Bielsa team and they pressed Nantes relentlessly throughout. The high-energy style should have brought the northern club rewards even before a three-goal second-half flurry ensured Ranieri's first game at Nantes ended in defeat.
Somebody posted this up the other day, it's a fantastic read: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40879274
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How is king Melberg doing in Sweden?
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Do we look for the (semi) proven,English speaking,English knowledge based,preferably unemployed, option of an Allardyce,Karanka or Pardew....All, despite their limitations have proven to improve teams on a short term basis and all would be interested.
Isn't this exactly what Bruce did ?
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I want someone in charge who actually wants to keep the ball, attack the opponent and take a positive win the game attitude every time we take to the pitch. I'm sick to death of conservativism. It's like we have become poisoned as a club and infected with subservience. Give me a manager who has the fucking balls to take the job of managing Aston Villa, not someone who is simply grateful to get an opportunity.
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I want someone in charge who actually wants to keep the ball, attack the opponent and take a positive win the game attitude every time we take to the pitch
I want players that want to keep the ball, attack the opponents and take a positive win the game attitude every time they take to the pitch as well
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I want someone in charge who actually wants to keep the ball, attack the opponent and take a positive win the game attitude every time we take to the pitch
I want players that want to keep the ball, attack the opponents and take a positive win the game attitude every time they take to the pitch as well
This.
Brucie has to take the flack and rightly so, it's his team now. But when does a footballer stand up and say I gave my best today, they aren't, they don't and they get away with it from us and contractually.
Disgrace.
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I want someone in charge who actually wants to keep the ball, attack the opponent and take a positive win the game attitude every time we take to the pitch
I want players that want to keep the ball, attack the opponents and take a positive win the game attitude every time they take to the pitch as well
This.
Brucie has to take the flack and rightly so, it's his team now. But when does a footballer stand up and say I gave my best today, they aren't, they don't and they get away with it from us and contractually.
Disgrace.
Do you feel Hogan should grow half a foot and put on two stone to fit in with Bruce's tactics of launching the ball towards him? Should Whelan decrease in age to get the energy and stamina to do the job he is being asked to do?
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Dwight Yorke. With Diego Maradona DoF.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
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I would rule out Karanka as he's very defensively minded, although it would be just like us to go foreign and bring in an absolute dullard.
Like when we signed the only Spannish player with a bad touch in Cuellar.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
If he isn't, you might wonder why he keeps doing it.
You have the choice. The manager wants him to do it. Or the manager doesn't want him to do it and doesn't do anything about it.
Neither reflects particularly well on InBruceWeTrust does it?
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In Bruce we have a week to sort it or he's a goner.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
If he isn't, you might wonder why he keeps doing it.
You have the choice. The manager wants him to do it. Or the manager doesn't want him to do it and doesn't do anything about it.
Neither reflects particularly well on InBruceWeTrust does it?
On this specific point I believe there is some mitigation. Grealish being crocked, Elmohamady going off, Kodja unfit - arguably our 3 best attacking options all missing. That does not excuse anything that happened yesterday but it does suggest Hutton launching it 50 yards was not a plan but a consequence.
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I am with Monty on this. If we are doomed never to be promoted like Forest and Leeds let's enjoy our games. This football diet of spuds, cabbage and pig's feet (waiter do you have pig's feet? No sir, it's the shoes) is killing me. How about accepting defeat providing we are entertained. Let's get a manager who is not terrified of losing but is terrified of getting the Bolton treatment for inflicting endless boredom on us. Actually, playing Samba at centre forward against Hull was the only unpredictable thing Bruce has ever done in his time with us.
Do you seriously think Dr T has spent all that money just to settle for that?
As I've said a lot over the last few months, I really don't understand why so many people don't get that playing better footbal that creates chances is a way to improve results, not something you do once you've got the results side on track.
When we signed Bruce I said that the only way he made sense was if we got promoted and that I'd rather we'd have started the transformation then with a focus on high quality basic skills and tempo. That brings you the sort of football we've seen from Fulham and Brentford (whose managers we're admiring) and is a big part of the Leicester story. Hogan and Hourihane fit that mould pretty well which is why I've found myself hoping that they were signed with a longer term plan in mind.
The next week is early enough for us to replace him and get a couple of players in (a left winger with a bit of pace being the absolute key requirement).
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Dean Smith; from Walsall and Brentford to Villa.
He's welcome down Villa Park, but either in the opposition dug out or on the Holte End.
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There's no mitigating factors to do continually doing something that doesn't work and never will.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
Then drop him instead of keep picking him and giving him another contract extension.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
If he isn't, you might wonder why he keeps doing it.
You have the choice. The manager wants him to do it. Or the manager doesn't want him to do it and doesn't do anything about it.
Neither reflects particularly well on InBruceWeTrust does it?
On this specific point I believe there is some mitigation. Grealish being crocked, Elmohamady going off, Kodja unfit - arguably our 3 best attacking options all missing. That does not excuse anything that happened yesterday but it does suggest Hutton launching it 50 yards was not a plan but a consequence.
Grealish he couldn't get a tune out of last season. To suggest he was to be the fulcrum of our attacking intent this season is pushing it a bit. We knew Kodjia would be out for at least the first month, we did nothing about it.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
If he isn't, you might wonder why he keeps doing it.
You have the choice. The manager wants him to do it. Or the manager doesn't want him to do it and doesn't do anything about it.
Neither reflects particularly well on InBruceWeTrust does it?
On this specific point I believe there is some mitigation. Grealish being crocked, Elmohamady going off, Kodja unfit - arguably our 3 best attacking options all missing. That does not excuse anything that happened yesterday but it does suggest Hutton launching it 50 yards was not a plan but a consequence.
You would think though that after all of these years in management Bruce would have a plan that very rarely if ever need Hutton to do that. Yes you're right those three would help, but his plan is to sit deep and launch meaningless attacks where there is little semblance of cohesiveness. We lose the ball and get burnt because we don't have the pace or energy to combat it. If you have certain weapons, as we have in players of a more senior nature then surely the approach would be tight possession football where the ball does the majority of the work as opposed to the players. Right now we play into the hands of our opponents to the point where Cardiff City, a side most expect to be lower half of the table batter us, and we "got away" with only being done 3-0.
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Sean Dyche would be perfect but - can't believe I'm saying this - Burnley are a more attractive option these days so we've got to find the next one. Dean Smith.
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I was one of those who was relatively happy with the Bruce appointment but he's just as bad as the rest of them, when he was appointed there were quite a few on here who were obviously looking forward to being able to say "told you" when things didn't improve, I was one of those who thought he might turn things round and was probably the best we could get at the time.
The Fulham manager would be great wouldn't surprise me if Curbishley or Brian Little were the next manager of our basket case of a club. Or of course John fucking Terry.
I probably fit in this group but I really don't want to do that, I gave high expectations for him because I didn't see any point in a short-term signing like Bruce unless it delivered short-term success. As soon as that didn't happen he should've been moved on but all along I've wanted to be proven wrong, I wanted him to deliver football that I didn't think he was capable of.
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No Villa fan wants to see this. It's bordering on humiliating at a football level now to see how we've become.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
If he isn't, you might wonder why he keeps doing it.
You have the choice. The manager wants him to do it. Or the manager doesn't want him to do it and doesn't do anything about it.
Neither reflects particularly well on InBruceWeTrust does it?
On this specific point I believe there is some mitigation. Grealish being crocked, Elmohamady going off, Kodja unfit - arguably our 3 best attacking options all missing. That does not excuse anything that happened yesterday but it does suggest Hutton launching it 50 yards was not a plan but a consequence.
Don't we have the players responsible for creating the most and second most goals in the league last year, neither of whom are on your list above? Why not see what Hourihane was doing at Barnsley and try to get him to replicate that, instead of using him as an auxiliary left-midfielder?
We were launching balls at Hogan for a lot of last season as well. It's not like yesterday was some sort of anomaly.
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I would put money on Brentford not launching long balls to Hogan when he scored for fun for them.
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Because Alan Hutton is under strict instructions to launch 50 yard punts to Hogan?
Have a word with yourself.
If he isn't, you might wonder why he keeps doing it.
You have the choice. The manager wants him to do it. Or the manager doesn't want him to do it and doesn't do anything about it.
Neither reflects particularly well on InBruceWeTrust does it?
Totally agree.
Individually or Collectively, Bruce is paid a lot of money to be ultimately responsible.
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I get the similarities to the Bruce appointment but I do think there is a difference in that Bruce plays the same and is reluctant to change. Don't forget he doesn't believe in tactics or whatever he said. With Allardyce, we will assess each game, the oppositions weaknesses. He did play long ball at Bolton because that was the effective method at that time. He didn't play that way all the time at West Ham or with Defoe up front at Sunderland. I really think he has more tactical knowledge than Bruce and would get us up.
He's a completely different prospect to Bruce. The only similarities are he's English and he's been around the block. He would have a definite pattern of play in mind and would have us fully prepared.
We're in a pickle that seemingly only Aston Villa could get itself into. We're going to have trouble attracting the Wagners and Jokanovics of this world, because why would they come here? Then, if we can tempt them to join, we are so impatient for any success they'll have around one season to get it right before they are hounded out like the others.
I fear their way of doing things will require longer-term rebuilding here - fine if we're already in the PL - but what we actually need right now is a short term fix to get us out of the Championship. The games are already running out.
We're caught between two worlds and may have to settle for an unattractive option (literally) like Allardyce to turn us into a team capable of going up, before we get that 'progressive' manager we need.
I think we need to do the rebuilding in the Championship. If you look at the most successful recent promoted teams (with the insane exception of Leicester), they did their groundwork in this division to be ready for the top division - Swansea, Bournemouth, Southampton, it's all based on long term planning. I want that. And I really don't want another 'well he'll get them organised' manager because that's just not enough.
I hope you don't think I actually want Allardyce? Like you, I'd like to see a thoughtful, intelligent, bespectacled European with slightly foppish hair, and a ready wit in press conferences, slowly sculpt a team and shape a solid club ethos and style of play that will be our bedrock for the next few decades.
The vast majority of Villa fans simply won't give that bloke enough time. They look at how much we've spent and wonder why we didn't do what Newcastle did. They won't be happy if we're mid-table by Christmas. They will hound him out and we'll be back to square one.
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Not sure about the foppish hair, think the stylish shaved head might be the new in-thing. Glasses and elegant jumpers are a must though, and a beard a plus.
More seriously, my problem with that analysis is that I think we either reform the club fundamentally or get stuck in a perpetual cycle of gloomy, cold-porridge football in the middle reaches of this division. Also, results can sometimes come quicker than people think with that playing style, and in my view will come quicker than just stodging along with more of the same. And Allardyce, Warnock, McCarthy, for all that they might talk better games than Bruce, are essentially more of the same.
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I would put money on Brentford not launching long balls to Hogan when he scored for fun for them.
You only have to quickly look on Youtube to see that Brentford slipped some quality through balls to him which he more often than not hits first time. One of them is a flick on from a corner, To think you can actually be creative from a corner.
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I'd suggest Allardyce is in a slightly different category to Warnock or McCarthy. But still, for the progressive type, I think we'll have trouble attracting one, and our desperation for success wouldn't allow him enough time before the inevitable hounding and point of no return. Of course, even Allardyce has said he doesn't want to manage again so we might not even get him.
If we're in this division for the medium to long term, which is very possible, then we'll have no option but to rebuild here. We'll only know that toward the end of this season, but I think a short term fix now might just get us up.
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The Good Doctor should move Heaven and Earth to get Bielsa.
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I'm pretty much at the same place I was back in 2011 when I wanted Martinez as manager.
Not that I necessarily thought he was THE manager. Winning trophies and writing his own piece of Villa history, or even securing top 6-8 or whatever might have proven beyond him with Lerner's new sleight of hand.
But I reasoned that should he leave after season or two, the green shoots of recovery might be breaking through. Odds are that something approximating a modern style or pattern of play and even ludicrous concepts like movement off the ball might be taking root. Meaning he would leave the club in a somewhat better state than he found it. Then onto the next guy to take it further.
But we opted for McLeish, then Lambert, Sherwood and then Garde. The latter of whom might have been the best of the bunch with time. But with our porous defence, Gestede/Gabby up top and no room to maneuver in the transfer market, he was doomed from the getgo.
Any manager coming in will know the FFP shitstorm we face if we don't go up this season. But that penury might not put him off completely. How many managers in the Championship operate with a completely free hand in the transfer market? We will most likely need to sell to buy (again). But that isn't out of the ordinary at this level either.
We might still (just about) be attractive to a Jokanovic, or the Wednesday bloke. I'd argue that the fans *might* be more patient if they see positive signs we are moving in the right direction too -even if we don't actually secure promotion this year.
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We've cut our cloth with the appointments of Wyness and Round...old skool the both. Can you seriously imagine them plucking a continental gem of an unproven, promising managerial appointment?
It'll be another attempt at Dyche (he'll turn us down like last time).
Followed by an attempt at whomever is flavour of the month in the Championship pacesetters (whomever they may be come October). Only to be turned down.
Then scrabbling around in desperation and giving the likes of Allardyce the glad-eye, before we end up gawd knows who, but someone ultimately underwhelming that's for sure.
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More convinced than ever that Bruce will be sacked and John Terry will be our next manager.
yes with Lampard as assistant
Yep.
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Thinking about the foppish hair and reading about the new generation life-like sex dolls perhaps we could be the first club with a virtual manager. Programme into it all the best qualities of the best managers. No wages, no compo, bit of lecky and we are up and running. I suspect Man U already have one. They call it Jose.
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Just realised Alan Pardew is out of work. Best wait until he finds a new job.
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Just realised Alan Pardew is out of work. Best wait until he finds a new job.
He is not a bad manager, boring yes, but not a bad one.
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The Good Doctor should move Heaven and Earth to get Bielsa.
My dream. But he just started at Lille right? Sadly unlikely we can get him.
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Just realised Alan Pardew is out of work. Best wait until he finds a new job.
He is not a bad manager, boring yes, but not a bad one.
He's mental, and once he gets into a bad run, boy does he get into a bad run. If you combined that with being Aston Villa manager we'd lose every game 10-0.
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Jokanovic.
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Can we also suggest who will replace the next bloke in 12 months? Make this a next two manager suggestions thread?
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McInnis from Aberdeen
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No to Dean Smith for me. Very average. Up and coming yes, but not ready for Villa. Dyche won't come, neither will Howe. The available list is not massively attractive. I wonder if Xia might go for Sven? Hope not.
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Why would any decent PL manager want to move to VP?
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I'd go for Jap Staam. That said, I'd give Bruce until 10 games in before making the call.
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Jap Staam just bought Bacuna, that would go down well!
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John Sitton
And you can bring your fakin dinna wiv ya.
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Would guess Steve Round & probably Wyness will want Moyes should they get rid of Bruce :-(
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Jose Mourinho.
I think he's probably the only manager who would get us promoted.
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Obvious ones we'd probably go for would be Allardyce and Moyes. Must admit if (and I know it isn't) it was a choice between those two i'd go for Easter Island head as whatever Moyes once had seems to have vanished.
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Obvious ones we'd probably go for would be Allardyce and Moyes. Must admit if (and I know it isn't) it was a choice between those two i'd go for Easter Island head as whatever Moyes once had seems to have vanished.
Agree, Moyes is a busted flush, I just worry that the old boy network will kick in, this is the English football way.Moyes would be a disaster.
We are such a shambles that for the first time ever I would countenance EIH appointment, it's got that bad.
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I would sooner have any of our previous managers back rather than Moyes. Appointing him would be a declaration of surrender.
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Posted similar in the tiny tweets thread but, Dean smith would at least set us up in the right manner plus be given more time from us as we know he's Villa. Jokanovic target 1 but would be happy with Smith
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Wolves had the right idea this summer. It might not work long term for them but he's the right profile and background because he's come from a club where he was expected to win and he didn't interpret that as playing to not lose.
We keep signing managers who've done well/ok at underdogs and we really need to start looking at people who have experience of being a big fish and didn't wilt under it.
I don't know who we could get, the sort of managers I'd be looking at are ones that will have people saying I'm being unrealistic but, as above, Wolves have a guy with Porto and Valencia as his 2 previous clubs, the idea that we can't attract similar quality is the mentality that leads to us settling for shit like McLeish, Lambert and Bruce.
If we'd sacked him when we should've in May Cocu would've been top of the list for me but getting someone like that a couple of games into the season is much more difficult.
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Bruce played for Man Utd for ten years. I just don't believe the club is too big for him. The challenge might be.
He can't afford many - maybe any - more performances like saturday's, but theres no point getting rid until we can get someone better in.
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Jokanovic or Sean Dyche.
Why on earth would Dyche want to come?
Because he wanted the job before we got this cock in but deffed it because he wouldn't let us put a lack of promotion clause in? Wagner didn't, but wouldn't guarantee promotion last season. So we switch to this fucking pillock.
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Bruce played for Man Utd for ten years. I just don't believe the club is too big for him. The challenge might be.
He can't afford many - maybe any - more performances like saturday's, but theres no point getting rid until we can get someone better in.
playing and managing are very different things and how the pressure manifests reflects that. Bruce has never managed a club where everything about it demanded more than avoid defeat and hope for a win. We need a manager who plays for a win and takes a draw if he has to, for all his flaws mon was the last manager we had who got that. Houllier would've got us there but he needed 2-3 seasons and his health scuppered that, from then we've got the whole approach wrong. The only one that could've been different was Garde but he was given an impossible job. I'd have kept him for the rebuild personally but I know a lot of fans wouldn't have accepted it.
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How about bringing in Micky phelan to assist Bruce . Can help him and join the ranks of Clement and Calderwood. Think it would be useful if are to persist with him and phelan has been his go to guy at hull . Just an idea.
Otherwise Brenden Rogers would have been good for a project. More realistic if Celtic dont qualify for uefa champions league
Hodgson as man has class and would not tolerate like Bruce does. He be very respected.
Pardew would offer some enthusiasm and provide something work well with the British players
Karanka may struggle to implement his ways but is an option.
Dean Smith was mentioned and I like him as he's a Villa man and has done superbly with Brentford
If not Brenden Rogers or Hodgson then
Dean Smith .
Then pardew
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How about bringing in Micky phelan to assist Bruce .
He had the chance to do that this summer. You'd have to wonder why he didn't.
Doing it now would look like a panic move, or trying to deflect blame.
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How about bringing in Micky phelan to assist Bruce .
He had the chance to do that this summer. You'd have to wonder why he didn't.
Doing it now would look like a panic move, or trying to deflect blame.
Fair point I'd like to think he could have charmed him on a golf course in Portugal. I also liked to think in the summer Bruce had a plan and system and a pattern of play. We've seen the panic in that first game with samba up front. Something needs to be done by Bruce! I guess if win next 2 or 3 then he ll get away with some more time but at least one win is needed in next 2 matches . 4points in next 2 minimum.
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Just realised Alan Pardew is out of work. Best wait until he finds a new job.
He is not a bad manager, boring yes, but not a bad one.
He's mental, and once he gets into a bad run, boy does he get into a bad run. If you combined that with being Aston Villa manager we'd lose every game 10-0.
And with both him and John Terry at the club, I imagine that the players wives will never have been so well looked-after.
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I would love Brendan Rodgers as well footy. Sadly I see no reason why he would join us.
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I would rather keep Bruce than get Moyes.
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We've shown ourselves willing to spend money on good (and not so good) players. When it comes to managers, though, we always seem to be shopping in the bargain bucket.
If Bruce gets the boot, get the best we can get.
That's Marcelo Bielsa.
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We've shown ourselves willing to spend money on good (and not so good) players. When it comes to managers, though, we always seem to be shopping in the bargain bucket.
If Bruce gets the boot, get the best we can get.
That's Marcelo Bielsa.
Have we? I bet our managers have been paid very well indeed. We made McLeish a very rich man. I would also put money on Bruce being comfortably the best paid in the division and ahead of some of the managers in the PL today.
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We've shown ourselves willing to spend money on good (and not so good) players. When it comes to managers, though, we always seem to be shopping in the bargain bucket.
If Bruce gets the boot, get the best we can get.
That's Marcelo Bielsa.
Have we? I bet our managers have been paid very well indeed. We made McLeish a very rich man. I would also put money on Bruce being comfortably the best paid in the division and ahead of some of the managers in the PL today.
I think you are both right. We overpay for managers who are in the bargain bucket.
When was the last time we actually got a manager a good club was gutted to lose? Lambert? Even that was a stretch.
Time to get our monies worth for a change.
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Fair point, TV. Ciggies has explained it better than me. I'd like to appoint a manager that will have other clubs jealous and saying "how the fuck did they get him"?
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The managers we have appointed since MON have all had one problem that's Aston Villa our history and the expectations that go along with that. MON had the ego to believe he was bigger than Villa and he had the personality to get the players to play for him.
Bruce does not inspire me and I doubt his players feel any different, I've always thought players need to be a bit frightened of the manager to get the best out of them.
That's why I would gamble on Allardyce, yes he has baggage but players would not take liberties with him foe me he has that scare factor, always thought he did well with the players he had at West Ham.
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Fair point, TV. Ciggies has explained it better than me. I'd like to appoint a manager that will have other clubs jealous and saying "how the fuck did they get him"?
I just don't know who that would be unless we are talking about pulling someone out of the PL. Once the season starts it's really hard to get managers to leave. Our situation would be unique too as most clubs wouldn't think of sacking a manager so quickly, so potential managers would/could be skeptical of that. It's once again an unenviable position to be in yet again, and last season it could be even be argued we got "lucky" in a way that a "proven" Championship manager like Bruce was available. That said it would be great to see us just say fuck it like we did with Big Ron and just go get who we want.
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The Serbian fellow at Fulham got Watford up.
The fact he and Terry played together at Chelsea may certainly help his case and ours for that matter.
He does need wingers though, something we don't really have. Still, the window is open, even if it means a loan or two.
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So after 9 pages my conclusion is that there are three serious potential candidates:
Jokanovic - depends on him wanting out at Fulham
Smith - plays lovely stuff but this would be a huge step up in pressure. This is one if we want to abandon the "get up this year at all costs" for me
Karanka - good track record, though probably every bit as defensive as Bruce
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The managers we have appointed since MON have all had one problem that's Aston Villa our history and the expectations that go along with that. MON had the ego to believe he was bigger than Villa and he had the personality to get the players to play for him.
Bruce does not inspire me and I doubt his players feel any different, I've always thought players need to be a bit frightened of the manager to get the best out of them.
That's why I would gamble on Allardyce, yes he has baggage but players would not take liberties with him foe me he has that scare factor, always thought he did well with the players he had at West Ham.
If we are seriously looking to be promotion contenders this season then unfortunately I can't see much past this. Fat Sam would earn the instant respect of the players, would sort out any players causing issues behind the scenes, and we would have tactics in place for each and every game. There is a reason why this guy has the reputation he has and turns clubs around...you only have to look at what he achieved with Palace last season as an example. Whether or not he would come out of retirement for this job is another question.
I can't see Jakonovic leaving Fulham and Smith isn't equipped or ready for the size of the challenge. Anyone in PL jobs such as Dyche and Wagner aren't realistic. Bielsa is also unrealistic as that ship has sailed now that he has joined Lille. Until the first round of the managerial merry go round starts this season, then that leaves the likes of Allardyce, Moyes, Karanka and Pardew that are available...like I said, Fat Sam is the pick of a bad bunch at the moment, however he is the most likely to a) get things sorted behind the scenes, and b) deliver results on the pitch to put us in contention for promotion.
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I thought Allardyce retired from management, why would he ditch the Crystal Palace job just so he's around to pick up a Championship team?
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Thats exactly the question I asked in my post above, but there are rumours and whispers of issues at Palace (such as lack of funds in the transfer market) which may have made his decision to walk from there being a little bit easier. He went to Palace to do a job for one season, so he may be tempted by a short one year deal at Villa.
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Allardyce would be very stupid to consider us after achieving greatness with England and Palace. I hope he stays retired and never has any thoughts about managing the Villa.
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Is the possibility of John Terry becoming manager being ruled out? I suspected that having one eye on the manager's job might have been one of the reasons he came here.
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i sincerely hope not.He'd probably try and get a Chavski reference into every interview, ditch the claret and just wear a different shade of blue.
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This thread is rapidly becoming the Bruce In one :-)
Seriously though, although there will be candidates out there that want it....the job is essentially to turn around a non functioning squad with no money....not imagining a queue down Witton Lane?
Of those mentioned Jokanovic is interesting, seems to play good football and is also clearly aggravated that he has no control on signings so maybe available.
Dean Smith would be a huge jump in size of club & expectation - would he have the required ego like Gregory did all those years ago, I suspect not.
As for Moyes, Allardyce, Pardew & Hodgson - just what we don't need, another negative, moany coach who are so set in their ways that everything is about not losing. Would be winding the clock back 10 months to appointing Bruce where we try and persuade ourselves that it's the right appointment as his record says he can get us up.
I'll be honest, I can cope with losing any game so long as we try and win it - playing for draws or sitting back if you get ahead which is Bruce's way is dull, boring & pointless.
Benitez, Hughton & Wagner....none of them had promotion from the Championship on their CV before last season....it's not a pre-requisite to getting up!
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This thread is rapidly becoming the Bruce In one :-)
Seriously though, although there will be candidates out there that want it....the job is essentially to turn around a non functioning squad with no money....not imagining a queue down Witton Lane?
Of those mentioned Jokanovic is interesting, seems to play good football and is also clearly aggravated that he has no control on signings so maybe available.
Dean Smith would be a huge jump in size of club & expectation - would he have the required ego like Gregory did all those years ago, I suspect not.
As for Moyes, Allardyce, Pardew & Hodgson - just what we don't need, another negative, moany coach who are so set in their ways that everything is about not losing. Would be winding the clock back 10 months to appointing Bruce where we try and persuade ourselves that it's the right appointment as his record says he can get us up.
I'll be honest, I can cope with losing any game so long as we try and win it - playing for draws or sitting back if you get ahead which is Bruce's way is dull, boring & pointless.
Benitez, Hughton & Wagner....none of them had promotion from the Championship on their CV before last season....it's not a pre-requisite to getting up!
A great last point.
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Benitez, Hughton & Wagner....none of them had promotion from the Championship on their CV before last season....it's not a pre-requisite to getting up!
Hughton did. He got Newcastle up.
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Benitez, Hughton & Wagner....none of them had promotion from the Championship on their CV before last season....it's not a pre-requisite to getting up!
Hughton did. He got Newcastle up.
So he did - I'll get my coat :-)
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Point is still valid.
The top 6 were
Benitez
Hughton
Stam
Carvalhal
Wagner
Jokanovic
Bruce has more promotions than all those added together. This much lauded championship experience is bollocks. A good manager is a good manager.
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Also none of them play long ball. The closest to doing so, Benitez and Hughton, still do lots of careful preparation and swap their tactics around game to game. The way to go up in this division isn't brainless mesozoic hoofing, it's being modern and smart.
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The club as a whole are about as modern as a pair of Jack Duckworths shoes.
We've been behind the times with everything, desperately trying to catch up with a raft of ideas whilst masking over ineffectiveness with huge dollops of money.
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I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our squad and not think he'd get us up automatically.
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I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our squad and not think he'd get us up automatically.
If he's seen them play I doubt that
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I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our squad and not think he'd get us up automatically.
If he's seen them play I doubt that
I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our team playing and not think he could get them winning.
I've got more of these, we can go all day.
If Bruce is sacked, then he will have failed and it wont be because of lack of quality, we have more in every department than just about everybody else, it will an inability to display that quality consistently to win.
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I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our squad and not think he'd get us up automatically.
If he's seen them play I doubt that
I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our team playing and not think he could get them winning.
I've got more of these, we can go all day.
If Bruce is sacked, then he will have failed and it wont be because of lack of quality, we have more in every department than just about everybody else, it will an inability to display that quality consistently to win.
Do you think Bruce can turn this round and get us winning consistently?
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Come to the conclusion that it would be preferable to have a manager who is attack minded. I'd rather see us losing 3-4 but with attractive exciting football. Pretty sure we still end up higher in the league than Bruce will achieve.
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I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our squad and not think he'd get us up automatically.
If he's seen them play I doubt that
I don't think you'd find a manager who would look at our team playing and not think he could get them winning.
I've got more of these, we can go all day.
If Bruce is sacked, then he will have failed and it wont be because of lack of quality, we have more in every department than just about everybody else, it will an inability to display that quality consistently to win.
Do you think Bruce can turn this round and get us winning consistently?
I hope so. He's got the players and the opportunity. If he fails then he will be sacked.
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Ads is right there is nothing wrong with the quality of player for this division, Bruce lack of tactics and the inability to find a working forward structure is glaring, then there is Gabby.
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Do you think Bruce can turn this round and get us winning consistently?
I hope so. He's got the players and the opportunity. If he fails then he will be sacked.
Indeed. The disappointing thing is that after only 2 games it feels like 'when' not 'if'. Then the most concerning thing for me is I can't think who could greatly improve us if Jokanovic turned us down (if we were even smart enough to go for him first).
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Round will go for Moyes.
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Jap Staam just bought Bacuna, that would go down well!
Isn't it obvious?! We've already got Stam lined up! It's the only explanation! And may I be the first to congratulate the board on a terrific example of innovative, forward planning. Cue a draw tomorrow night (well, they couldn't make it that obvious....), Bruce out on Wednesday morning and Jaap to turn up to a Bacuna-free squad and an extra £3 million to spend.
Well played, Tony, well played.
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Jap Staam just bought Bacuna, that would go down well!
Isn't it obvious?! We've already got Stam lined up! It's the only explanation! And may I be the first to congratulate the board on a terrific example of innovative, forward planning. Cue a draw tomorrow night (well, they couldn't make it that obvious....), Bruce out on Wednesday morning and Jaap to turn up to a Bacuna-free squad and an extra £3 million to spend.
Well played, Tony, well played.
:) :) :)
Ha ha ha this made me chuckle....
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The biggest concern I have about Bruce is that at no point in his career does he seem to have been able to turn around a slide.
When he has been relegated it has been after long runs of abject form. When at Villa he has had bad patches he has just sat it out and waited for some luck. He does not seem to be able to inspire confidence to get out of a rut. I fear we are entering a run where he will just sit and shrug until we scab a victory somehow.
The more I think about it, the more I think we should be on the phone to Fat Sam. He is a lot smarter than most give him credit for, and I am sure he would arrest the slide and find tactics that suit the squad. He is also more than capable of keeping us up once promoted and establishing us for 2-3 years before we appoint someone more exciting to kick on with.
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The more I think about it, the more I think we should be on the phone to Fat Sam. He is a lot smarter than most give him credit for, and I am sure he would arrest the slide and find tactics that suit the squad. He is also more than capable of keeping us up once promoted and establishing us for 2-3 years before we appoint someone more exciting to kick on with.
And given that he retired from a Premier League job a year ago, why exactly is our shambles likely to be of appeal?
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Point is still valid.
The top 6 were
Benitez
Hughton
Stam
Carvalhal
Wagner
Jokanovic
Bruce has more promotions than all those added together. This much lauded championship experience is bollocks. A good manager is a good manager.
Hughton aside, they are all fairly young and from other countries as well. You do have to wonder whether the older, tried and tested British managers are falling behind the times. There's only Pulis and Hughes of that school left in the Premier League now really. Howe and Dyche are younger and seem to be much more imaginative.
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the biggest draw in football is money, has been for a long time now
one of the best players in the world today just moved from one of the great european super power clubs to an inferior league to play for a club with very little history because he wanted 'the challenge' when we all know it was really just very very big pots of cash that swung it
we haven't got the money to get any manager we want but we have got enough to turn the heads of a few decent enough choices i'm sure, managers are greedy buggers
when i see 'why would he leave X and join our poisoned club' the answer is simple....Money
the most powerful thing in the world (apart from Love of course)
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the biggest draw in football is money, has been for a long time now
one of the best players in the world today just moved from one of the great european super power clubs to an inferior league to play for a club with very little history because he wanted 'the challenge' when we all know it was really just very very big pots of cash that swung it
we haven't got the money to get any manager we want but we have got enough to turn the heads of a few decent enough choices i'm sure, managers are greedy buggers
when i see 'why would he leave X and join our poisoned club' the answer is simple....Money
the most powerful thing in the world (apart from Love of course)
Who then?
With regards to the player you're talking about, the money is astronomical, he's moving to what is regarded as being one of the best cities on the planet and playing for a team challenging for the national league title and in the Champions League. It's hardly surprising he moved there.
In convincing someone to come to Villa, you're talking about a club that hasn't won anything for over 20 years. It hasn't won the league for 35, the FA Cup, well let's not go there. Then there is the fact we're in the second division, have a set up that has fucked up for 10 years, with a bunch of fans who are rarely happy with anything (and who can blame us?) and it's Birmingham (nice enough but it isn't London or Manchester).
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In convincing someone to come to Villa, you're talking about a club that hasn't won anything for over 20 years. It hasn't won the league for 35, the FA Cup, well let's not go there. Then there is the fact we're in the second division, have a set up that has fucked up for 10 years, with a bunch of fans who are rarely happy with anything (and who can blame us?) and it's Birmingham (nice enough but it isn't London or Manchester).
Birmingham is a far better city than Manchester, which is not even the best city in the North West (that would be Liverpool). I live in the North West, and every time my better half goes into Brum she cant believe how it has such a dowdy reputation. It is high time we started bigging our city up a bit, it has come a long way since the 70s.
Manchester is a dump, don't believe the hype.
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Point is still valid.
The top 6 were
Benitez
Hughton
Stam
Carvalhal
Wagner
Jokanovic
Bruce has more promotions than all those added together. This much lauded championship experience is bollocks. A good manager is a good manager.
Hughton aside, they are all fairly young and from other countries as well. You do have to wonder whether the older, tried and tested British managers are falling behind the times. There's only Pulis and Hughes of that school left in the Premier League now really. Howe and Dyche are younger and seem to be much more imaginative.
Also what they've done and the type of clubs they've managed in those countries is very important as well, they've come from clubs expected to win, which is very similar to the challenge when coming into Second Division Aston Villa.
Jokanovic - Partizan Belgrade and Maccabi Tel Aviv
Wagner - Borussia Dortmund
Benitez - Real Madrid, Napoli, etc etc
Carvalhal - Sporting Lisbon, Besiktas, Braga, etc
Stam - Ajax
It's why I think Leeds have got the right idea going for Thomas Christiansen, on the face of it everybody says who? But he's just won the league having come from the biggest team in that country. Although it's Cyprus, he's managed the expectations of winning most weeks and got the winning habit, I'd rather go down that route than somebody that has overachieved at Hull or Norwich.
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the biggest draw in football is money, has been for a long time now
one of the best players in the world today just moved from one of the great european super power clubs to an inferior league to play for a club with very little history because he wanted 'the challenge' when we all know it was really just very very big pots of cash that swung it
we haven't got the money to get any manager we want but we have got enough to turn the heads of a few decent enough choices i'm sure, managers are greedy buggers
when i see 'why would he leave X and join our poisoned club' the answer is simple....Money
the most powerful thing in the world (apart from Love of course)
Who then?
With regards to the player you're talking about, the money is astronomical, he's moving to what is regarded as being one of the best cities on the planet and playing for a team challenging for the national league title and in the Champions League. It's hardly surprising he moved there.
In convincing someone to come to Villa, you're talking about a club that hasn't won anything for over 20 years. It hasn't won the league for 35, the FA Cup, well let's not go there. Then there is the fact we're in the second division, have a set up that has fucked up for 10 years, with a bunch of fans who are rarely happy with anything (and who can blame us?) and it's Birmingham (nice enough but it isn't London or Manchester).
The fuck are you talking about? How to win friends and influence people, there mate.
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Based on pretty much all of the above, Newcastle would never have got Benitez.
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Bielsa currently manages that global cultural hotspot, Lille.
I'm glad the likes of Drummond aren't in charge of the selection policy. There are plenty of people who want to slag off Villa without our own fans joining in.
The "yeah but all their trophies were ages ago" shtick is exactly the sort of shit Small Heath and Smethwick fans come out with.
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mainly because it's true. I don't mind that sort of self criticism at all ; our current malaise is only going to heighten people's anger/frustration.
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Based on pretty much all of the above, Newcastle would never have got Benitez.
TBF Newcastle were still a premiership club when he took over.
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mainly because it's true. I don't mind that sort of self criticism at all ; our current malaise is only going to heighten people's anger/frustration.
If we take that sort of defeatist attitude into account when appointing managers, it's no wonder we end up with such uninspiring dross as Steve Bruce.
I was talking to a Welsh couple on Saturday who were at pains to tell me how "massive" Aston Villa are. I get the same thing all over country watching Villa. It's odd how, other than our local "rivals", the only people that seem keen to talk down our history are our own fans. Usually those trying to explain that we should settle for our current shite form and/or incompetent manager.
Even if we didn't have a hugely successful and celebrated history, we've still been in the most watched league in the World for most of its history, and regularly beaten all the top clubs (well, except for one of them) in front of audiences of hundreds of millions of people. The fact that we've won twenty major honours further illustrates our largesse.
We are a massive club and need to start acting like it.
If Lille can appoint a World class manager, we have no excuse.
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the biggest draw in football is money, has been for a long time now
one of the best players in the world today just moved from one of the great european super power clubs to an inferior league to play for a club with very little history because he wanted 'the challenge' when we all know it was really just very very big pots of cash that swung it
we haven't got the money to get any manager we want but we have got enough to turn the heads of a few decent enough choices i'm sure, managers are greedy buggers
when i see 'why would he leave X and join our poisoned club' the answer is simple....Money
the most powerful thing in the world (apart from Love of course)
Who then?
With regards to the player you're talking about, the money is astronomical, he's moving to what is regarded as being one of the best cities on the planet and playing for a team challenging for the national league title and in the Champions League. It's hardly surprising he moved there.
In convincing someone to come to Villa, you're talking about a club that hasn't won anything for over 20 years. It hasn't won the league for 35, the FA Cup, well let's not go there. Then there is the fact we're in the second division, have a set up that has fucked up for 10 years, with a bunch of fans who are rarely happy with anything (and who can blame us?) and it's Birmingham (nice enough but it isn't London or Manchester).
The fuck are you talking about? How to win friends and influence people, there mate.
Ah, I think my wording could have been better there.
I merely meant, that for most players, London or Manchester is where it's at, it's where other players are etc. They are the trendier places to be. I didn't mean to suggest in any way that the second city was in fact anything other than brilliant, though not quite as good as Sheffield.
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the biggest draw in football is money, has been for a long time now
one of the best players in the world today just moved from one of the great european super power clubs to an inferior league to play for a club with very little history because he wanted 'the challenge' when we all know it was really just very very big pots of cash that swung it
we haven't got the money to get any manager we want but we have got enough to turn the heads of a few decent enough choices i'm sure, managers are greedy buggers
when i see 'why would he leave X and join our poisoned club' the answer is simple....Money
the most powerful thing in the world (apart from Love of course)
Who then?
With regards to the player you're talking about, the money is astronomical, he's moving to what is regarded as being one of the best cities on the planet and playing for a team challenging for the national league title and in the Champions League. It's hardly surprising he moved there.
In convincing someone to come to Villa, you're talking about a club that hasn't won anything for over 20 years. It hasn't won the league for 35, the FA Cup, well let's not go there. Then there is the fact we're in the second division, have a set up that has fucked up for 10 years, with a bunch of fans who are rarely happy with anything (and who can blame us?) and it's Birmingham (nice enough but it isn't London or Manchester).
The fuck are you talking about? How to win friends and influence people, there mate.
Ah, I think my wording could have been better there.
I merely meant, that for most players, London or Manchester is where it's at, it's where other players are etc. They are the trendier places to be. I didn't mean to suggest in any way that the second city was in fact anything other than brilliant, though not quite as good as Sheffield.
Fair enough, apologies for my tone in that case. I like Sheffield by the way, brilliant city. Much better than Manchester, for starters!
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Point is still valid.
The top 6 were
Benitez
Hughton
Stam
Carvalhal
Wagner
Jokanovic
Bruce has more promotions than all those added together. This much lauded championship experience is bollocks. A good manager is a good manager.
Hughton aside, they are all fairly young and from other countries as well. You do have to wonder whether the older, tried and tested British managers are falling behind the times. There's only Pulis and Hughes of that school left in the Premier League now really. Howe and Dyche are younger and seem to be much more imaginative.
Also what they've done and the type of clubs they've managed in those countries is very important as well, they've come from clubs expected to win, which is very similar to the challenge when coming into Second Division Aston Villa.
Jokanovic - Partizan Belgrade and Maccabi Tel Aviv
Wagner - Borussia Dortmund
Benitez - Real Madrid, Napoli, etc etc
Carvalhal - Sporting Lisbon, Besiktas, Braga, etc
Stam - Ajax
It's why I think Leeds have got the right idea going for Thomas Christiansen, on the face of it everybody says who? But he's just won the league having come from the biggest team in that country. Although it's Cyprus, he's managed the expectations of winning most weeks and got the winning habit, I'd rather go down that route than somebody that has overachieved at Hull or Norwich.
Good point and although Celtic are nailed on to win the league and will be appearing in the Champions League this season, I wonder if Brendan Rodgers could be sold on our 'project' (as he likes to call it)?
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I worry we are going round and round in a circular debate.
Bruce and Sherwood failed because they did not have a clue on tactics - well Garde and RHM were supposed to be tactically sound yet they both failed too.
There seems to be an underlying thread that we have had / and continue to have the 'quality' in the squad - I disagree. We have had 6 or 7 seasons now where the quality of the squad, both at a PL level, and now at a Championship level, is being shown up. Our squad right now looks slow and predictable because it is slow and predictable. We lack pace and we lack creativity and a new manager wont be able to fix that without another player merry go-round.
I believe Bruce has to go, but I'm going to worry that whomever we appoint, we are going to continue to decline because we have not fixed the system - all we keep doing is fixing the 'guy in the dugout' but there is much more wrong than just that. And I think until the system is fixed, we are going to continue to struggle
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Bielsa currently manages that global cultural hotspot, Lille.
I'm glad the likes of Drummond aren't in charge of the selection policy. There are plenty of people who want to slag off Villa without our own fans joining in.
The "yeah but all their trophies were ages ago" shtick is exactly the sort of shit Small Heath and Smethwick fans come out with.
I'm being realistic.
We're in very real danger of becoming the next big club to become irrelevant. Except we'd be far the biggest. Leeds and Forest are the two clubs who spring to mind that nobody gives a shit about any more because they aren't at the top table.
We should be higher, we should be challenging, we should be winning, but we haven't. Most players now won't remember us as a big club from when they grew up, because barring two league cup wins we've won fuck all for 35 years.
We've got history, tradition, size, glamour, the name, the ground, but we've won fuck all and in this era more than any other it's that success and fame that younger folk seem to care about.
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Bielsa currently manages that global cultural hotspot, Lille.
They announced his appointment in February with him officially starting in May, giving him plenty of time to change things around. They have a very rich owner who has surrounded himself with top football people. They won their first game convincingly, playing great attacking and pressing football. Yesterday the lost 3-0 but that was due to having their keeper sent off and having to use two different outfield players in goal because they'd used all their subs.
He really was the man we should have brought in instead of RDM. Now, we are left to scrape the barrel of available managers or try and steal another club's. It won't be easy and it's why Bruce should have gone at the end of last season.
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I think young supporters get patronised too often and are just as likely to know about football history as older fans. Maybe more so, given that they are of the generation that has grown up knowing that every piece of information they need is only two clicks of a mouse away.
In any case, we aren't going to be appointing a teenager as our next manager, so I don't see how that is relevant.
Over 40,000 for Burton Albion. The best supported club away from home in England. We are still massive. Let's act like it. Busted flushes like David Moyes are not the answer.
There is no excuse for a club of our stature being unwilling to match Lille's ambitions.
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Bielsa's barely arrived at Lille. He'd have been worth asking otherwise as we would be a project for him (he rather likes being the guy to come in and sort out a mess of this sort), but it won't happen now.
As for being in the position we are and being a laughing stock - Leeds two most recent managers are of the type that I think we need. Fulham, laughing stock of the division, hired Jokanovic. Huddersfield, bumbling amiably along as usual, hire the Next Big Thing off the Dortmund coaching production line, and now they're back in the top flight. Just because we're at a real low moment, doesn't mean we can't hire someone really good.
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I worry we are going round and round in a circular debate.
Bruce and Sherwood failed because they did not have a clue on tactics - well Garde and RHM were supposed to be tactically sound yet they both failed too.
There seems to be an underlying thread that we have had / and continue to have the 'quality' in the squad - I disagree. We have had 6 or 7 seasons now where the quality of the squad, both at a PL level, and now at a Championship level, is being shown up. Our squad right now looks slow and predictable because it is slow and predictable. We lack pace and we lack creativity and a new manager wont be able to fix that without another player merry go-round.
I believe Bruce has to go, but I'm going to worry that whomever we appoint, we are going to continue to decline because we have not fixed the system - all we keep doing is fixing the 'guy in the dugout' but there is much more wrong than just that. And I think until the system is fixed, we are going to continue to struggle
I agree with that to be honest. We've changed pretty much every aspect of the club in recent years - owner, manager, backroom staff, technical staff, academy staff, playing staff - and the malaise still remains. I don't know if the whole things needs ripping up and starting again to be honest with a fresh approach and a team built around young players at the club. Hopefully this will be the last season that Hutton and Agbonlahor darken our door and the day can't come quick enough when Richards goes as well.
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We really need Xia to have a word with Terry to tap up Jokanovic.
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We really need Xia to have a word with Terry to tap up Jokanovic.
The only issue I see with him is that the fairly hefty amount to get him from Fulham will be on top of the fairly hefty amount we'll have to pay to get rid of Bruce.
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We really need Xia to have a word with Terry to tap up Jokanovic.
The only issue I see with him is that the fairly hefty amount to get him from Fulham will be on top of the fairly hefty amount we'll have to pay to get rid of Bruce.
Xia through Recon can rename the Witton Lane Stand for £10m a year if he so wishes. Also, I don't see it being a 'hefty' amount. £1m a year until 2019?
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We really need Xia to have a word with Terry to tap up Jokanovic.
The only issue I see with him is that the fairly hefty amount to get him from Fulham will be on top of the fairly hefty amount we'll have to pay to get rid of Bruce.
Offer them Hogan in exchange for their manager, they are crying out for a striker. Or better still, McCormack and Agbonlahor.
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I worry we are going round and round in a circular debate.
Bruce and Sherwood failed because they did not have a clue on tactics - well Garde and RHM were supposed to be tactically sound yet they both failed too.
There seems to be an underlying thread that we have had / and continue to have the 'quality' in the squad - I disagree. We have had 6 or 7 seasons now where the quality of the squad, both at a PL level, and now at a Championship level, is being shown up. Our squad right now looks slow and predictable because it is slow and predictable. We lack pace and we lack creativity and a new manager wont be able to fix that without another player merry go-round.
I believe Bruce has to go, but I'm going to worry that whomever we appoint, we are going to continue to decline because we have not fixed the system - all we keep doing is fixing the 'guy in the dugout' but there is much more wrong than just that. And I think until the system is fixed, we are going to continue to struggle
I agree with that to be honest. We've changed pretty much every aspect of the club in recent years - owner, manager, backroom staff, technical staff, academy staff, playing staff - and the malaise still remains. I don't know if the whole things needs ripping up and starting again to be honest with a fresh approach and a team built around young players at the club. Hopefully this will be the last season that Hutton and Agbonlahor darken our door and the day can't come quick enough when Richards goes as well.
I expect to get slated, but the 'fresh approach and a team built around youngsters' is more and more what I now advocate. We may go backwards in the short term, but perhaps building some financial stability, and having a longer term plan than the season to season panic we seem to endure these days, is an approach that might pay different dividends.
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Pretty sure there are rules to stop that kind of thing happening. Recon can sponsor anything to do with us but it has to be at what is deemed the going rate. So Recon can't offer £50m a year to sponsor us if the going rate is say £2m a year.
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Jokanovic is tied to Fulham to 2019 and speculation is he could cost around £5m to get in compensation.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/810096/Crystal-Palace-Fulham-Slavisa-Jokanovic-new-manager-Marco-Silva-Watford
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When bang average players are changing hands for over £10m in the championship, then £5m for a decent manager is chicken feed.
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I worry we are going round and round in a circular debate.
Bruce and Sherwood failed because they did not have a clue on tactics - well Garde and RHM were supposed to be tactically sound yet they both failed too.
There seems to be an underlying thread that we have had / and continue to have the 'quality' in the squad - I disagree. We have had 6 or 7 seasons now where the quality of the squad, both at a PL level, and now at a Championship level, is being shown up. Our squad right now looks slow and predictable because it is slow and predictable. We lack pace and we lack creativity and a new manager wont be able to fix that without another player merry go-round.
I believe Bruce has to go, but I'm going to worry that whomever we appoint, we are going to continue to decline because we have not fixed the system - all we keep doing is fixing the 'guy in the dugout' but there is much more wrong than just that. And I think until the system is fixed, we are going to continue to struggle
I agree with that to be honest. We've changed pretty much every aspect of the club in recent years - owner, manager, backroom staff, technical staff, academy staff, playing staff - and the malaise still remains. I don't know if the whole things needs ripping up and starting again to be honest with a fresh approach and a team built around young players at the club. Hopefully this will be the last season that Hutton and Agbonlahor darken our door and the day can't come quick enough when Richards goes as well.
I expect to get slated, but the 'fresh approach and a team built around youngsters' is more and more what I now advocate. We may go backwards in the short term, but perhaps building some financial stability, and having a longer term plan than the season to season panic we seem to endure these days, is an approach that might pay different dividends.
It's something I could maybe countenance if the shit really hits the fan, and we end up having to sell off the likes of Kodjia to avoid the abyss.
I think we still have a chance at promotion though, currently, and should be doing everything we can to achieve it.
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I worry we are going round and round in a circular debate.
Bruce and Sherwood failed because they did not have a clue on tactics - well Garde and RHM were supposed to be tactically sound yet they both failed too.
There seems to be an underlying thread that we have had / and continue to have the 'quality' in the squad - I disagree. We have had 6 or 7 seasons now where the quality of the squad, both at a PL level, and now at a Championship level, is being shown up. Our squad right now looks slow and predictable because it is slow and predictable. We lack pace and we lack creativity and a new manager wont be able to fix that without another player merry go-round.
I believe Bruce has to go, but I'm going to worry that whomever we appoint, we are going to continue to decline because we have not fixed the system - all we keep doing is fixing the 'guy in the dugout' but there is much more wrong than just that. And I think until the system is fixed, we are going to continue to struggle
I agree with that to be honest. We've changed pretty much every aspect of the club in recent years - owner, manager, backroom staff, technical staff, academy staff, playing staff - and the malaise still remains. I don't know if the whole things needs ripping up and starting again to be honest with a fresh approach and a team built around young players at the club. Hopefully this will be the last season that Hutton and Agbonlahor darken our door and the day can't come quick enough when Richards goes as well.
I expect to get slated, but the 'fresh approach and a team built around youngsters' is more and more what I now advocate. We may go backwards in the short term, but perhaps building some financial stability, and having a longer term plan than the season to season panic we seem to endure these days, is an approach that might pay different dividends.
I think we are fast approaching having to face that reality to be honest. If we don't go up this season then we will really have to cut back.
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Bielsa's barely arrived at Lille. He'd have been worth asking otherwise as we would be a project for him (he rather likes being the guy to come in and sort out a mess of this sort), but it won't happen now.
As for being in the position we are and being a laughing stock - Leeds two most recent managers are of the type that I think we need. Fulham, laughing stock of the division, hired Jokanovic. Huddersfield, bumbling amiably along as usual, hire the Next Big Thing off the Dortmund coaching production line, and now they're back in the top flight. Just because we're at a real low moment, doesn't mean we can't hire someone really good.
As I said, Philippe Cocu for me. PSV are out of Europe and with 2 titles he's achieved everything you'd expect to there.
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Jokanovic is tied to Fulham to 2019 and speculation is he could cost around £5m to get in compensation.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/810096/Crystal-Palace-Fulham-Slavisa-Jokanovic-new-manager-Marco-Silva-Watford
No brainer - just go an do it and promise him £150m to build a team if we are promoted
Oh and they can have Hutton and McCormack as part of the deal
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Jokanovic is tied to Fulham to 2019 and speculation is he could cost around £5m to get in compensation.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/810096/Crystal-Palace-Fulham-Slavisa-Jokanovic-new-manager-Marco-Silva-Watford
No brainer - just go an do it and promise him £150m to build a team if we are promoted
Oh and they can have Hutton and McCormack as part of the deal
£5m guesstimate in May. How much would a club want to let their manager go to a competitor two weeks into the season? I just can't see it happening at any price.
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When Dr Tony took over last year, didn't they say that they wanted to instill an Aston Villa way of playing from the first team to the kids? Like Dortmund do. I presume that went out the window when RDM got the boot for Bruce, but it's something we should look at again if we're going to be down here for a while. As long as this club-wide style of play is based on pace and skill and not the plodding crap we play now.
What tactics / style do the youth teams play? Same as the 1st team?
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When Dr Tony took over last year, didn't they say that they wanted to instill an Aston Villa way of playing from the first team to the kids? Like Dortmund do. I presume that went out the window when RDM got the boot for Bruce, but it's something we should look at again if we're going to be down here for a while. As long as this club-wide style of play is based on pace and skill and not the plodding crap we play now.
What tactics / style do the youth teams play? Same as the 1st team?
I have seen it mentioned again since but they also said that is was something that would take years to fully integrate.
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My take is that we are very good at taking apparently good players and turning them into mediocre players. There is one manager out there, kicking his heels who was notorious for getting the very best out of average players. He understands tactics. Knows how to make a team hard to beat. Winds up opposition. Has been "successful" at each team he has been at, relative to their standing in the world, and only really lost two jobs, one for being a dick when he got the England job, and I wish he was still at, and two for having idiot fans that thought they could do better than him, and have yet to really show it.
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Erm.. Don Revie is dead, Moet.
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Maybe El Tel could be lured from his Hotelier business.
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My take is that we are very good at taking apparently good players and turning them into mediocre players. There is one manager out there, kicking his heels who was notorious for getting the very best out of average players. He understands tactics. Knows how to make a team hard to beat. Winds up opposition. Has been "successful" at each team he has been at, relative to their standing in the world, and only really lost two jobs, one for being a dick when he got the England job, and I wish he was still at, and two for having idiot fans that thought they could do better than him, and have yet to really show it.
Agreed. Kevin Keegan it is.
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I rate Allardyce but he wouldn't suit us. Our best midfielder is ageing so we can't play a high tempo pressing game and we don't have a big unit up front to aim the ball at. We'd have to spend twenty million before the end of the month just to give him a chance.
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Maybe El Tel could be lured from his Hotelier business.
Let's put him in charge of finances as well.
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I heard somewhere Thomas Tuchel is available. Not sure if it's correct but if so get him in.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/30/thomas-tuchel-sacked-borussia-dortmund-three-days-leading-club/amp/
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Who is our best midfielder CD?
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Who is our best midfielder CD?
Would it be the one with the most assists in the championship last season?
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Tuchel turned down Southampton and wants a CL club.
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Jokanovic or Sean Dyche.
I'm not sure either of them would fancy quitting their current jobs to come to us. Especially Dyche dropping down from the PL. Dean Smith would probably fancy it. Maybe Allardyce or Warnock could be tempted by one last big job.
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We could try to have a bit of fun and get Pulis. Nine months of Albion fans dancing in the streets and taking the piss out of us followed by them getting relegated and us getting promoted. ;)
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Jokanovic would leave Fulham I think.
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Jokanovic would leave Fulham I think.
We could try to do a deal with them to get the river and the Michael Jackson statue too. The Michael Jackson statue could be a back up if Samba gets injured.
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The statue has gone.
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The statue has gone.
Time to start the petition to get the King Kong statue back in Birmingham then. Then the Freddie Mercury statue from Montreux. Each flanking the William McGregor statue.
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What happened to Bubbles? Could have him/her as a mascot. Roar like a chimp. That's about our barra as my granddad used to say.
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Jokanovic or Sean Dyche.
I'm not sure either of them would fancy quitting their current jobs to come to us. Especially Dyche dropping down from the PL. Dean Smith would probably fancy it. Maybe Allardyce or Warnock could be tempted by one last big job.
Dyche would have taken the loot and come last season but wouldn't do it on a "promotion or bust" contract. Jokanovic is pissed off at Fulham and might very well be happy to jump ship. Fuck me, we could have had Wagner if we were prepared to have the promotion clause but not until this season.
But we didn't. We gambled on "take any old shot as long as it is well paid", promotion specialist, Bruce and still didn't exercise our right to fuck him off with minimal pay off at the end of last season anyway. It's a shambles.
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What happened to Bubbles?
Karen Brady got him, they sing a song about it.
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Curious where the evidence is that Dyche would have come last year. Would seem very odd
Jokanovic the most promising option to me but still seems a way off. Their two best players have just signed new contracts so he can't be thatvpiaaed off
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Dyche had no interest in the job. My only itk. Friend of a friend, no interest in leaving Burnley for Villa.
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The statue has gone.
Time to start the petition to get the King Kong statue back in Birmingham then. Then the Freddie Mercury statue from Montreux. Each flanking the William McGregor statue.
The pedant in me wishes to inform you that it is now housed in the National Football Museum, Manchester.
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Who is our best midfielder CD?
Based on the comparison of our results with and without him it has to be Jedinak.
I'm still not convinced with him, mind. I don't really like any of our midfield!
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Tuchel turned down Southampton and wants a CL club.
Well thats us in 4 years right? Sign him up!
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What happened to Bubbles? Could have him/her as a mascot. Roar like a chimp. That's about our barra as my granddad used to say.
Wikipedia says he turned into "an aggressive chimp and an unsuitable companion".
I believe Wikipedia says exactly the same thing about Tim Sherwood's time at The Villa.
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Dyche had no interest in the job. My only itk. Friend of a friend, no interest in leaving Burnley for Villa.
He was interviewed and contract terms discussed.
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Dyche had no interest in the job. My only itk. Friend of a friend, no interest in leaving Burnley for Villa.
He was interviewed and contract terms discussed.
Which summer was that Chelts?
I read that he'd agreed to go to Sunderland in 2015 but Advocaat then changed his mind (only lasted until September) and it fell through.
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Id go for the Fulham boss , don't think he is happy with his owners so could be a possibility
I liked Stam last year but as he wants Bacuna , Id cross him off.
Dean Smith's football style looks pretty good to be fair and he is Villa of course so would not be against this one but could see the board going for a Pardew , Moyes or Big Sam to be honest.
The Huddlesfield manager would only be possible if they are bottom 3 in Feb but then It will be too late for Villa by then anyway as we need to get up this season so SB needs going now.
If he's bottom 3 at Christmas then he probably isn't the right man.
I have absolutely no idea who I want but it has to be somebody with the strength of personality and more importantly character required to handle the job without being an all mouth and nothing to back it up type like Sherwood. I take Monty's point about being entertained first and worry about the results later but unfortunately the business of football does not allow for that at a club the size of Villa.
I do find that an odd comment from Chris Smith about not being good enough if Huddersfield are bottom 3, this is Huddersfield in the premier league let's remember.
It's quite interesting and surprising how many of the top managers all have relegations on their CVs from their early jobs, Wenger, Benitez and Klopp have all been in charge of clubs relegated. Didn't Pochettino get sacked from Espanyol when they were bottom of La Liga aswell?
It's quite clear from his 18 months in English football David Wagner knows what he's doing.
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Wagner would be brilliant but wouldn't come in a million years
Norwich are trying to find the next Wagner but it hasn't got off to the best of starts (until Saturday)
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Dyche had no interest in the job. My only itk. Friend of a friend, no interest in leaving Burnley for Villa.
He was interviewed and contract terms discussed.
Which summer was that Chelts?
I read that he'd agreed to go to Sunderland in 2015 but Advocaat then changed his mind (only lasted until September) and it fell through.
That was last October when RDM got the push.
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Dyche had no interest in the job. My only itk. Friend of a friend, no interest in leaving Burnley for Villa.
He was interviewed and contract terms discussed.
Which summer was that Chelts?
I read that he'd agreed to go to Sunderland in 2015 but Advocaat then changed his mind (only lasted until September) and it fell through.
That was last October when RDM got the push.
Difficult when Burnley were back in the prem and had a decent start.
Summer 2015 would've been ideal considering he was about to go to Sunderland. Would've needed the board to see the writing was on the wall for Sherwood of course.
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Dyche had no interest in the job. My only itk. Friend of a friend, no interest in leaving Burnley for Villa.
He was interviewed and contract terms discussed.
Which summer was that Chelts?
I read that he'd agreed to go to Sunderland in 2015 but Advocaat then changed his mind (only lasted until September) and it fell through.
That was last October when RDM got the push.
I will try to find out. Unless it was all very hush hush, I know he laughed it off when someone I know asked him directly about it.
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Fuck me, we could have had Wagner if we were prepared to have the promotion clause but not until this season.
But we didn't. We gambled on "take any old shot as long as it is well paid", promotion specialist, Bruce and still didn't exercise our right to fuck him off with minimal pay off at the end of last season anyway. It's a shambles.
Bloody hell, Chelts, that is such a depressing read. Thanks. Top marks for your other post on Bruce. Absolutely nailed it. It appears my suspicions on Wyness defending his appointment are sadly true. What a bloody mess. Two games into the season and it feels like it's already over. Of course it's not but do seem to be the specialists in self-harm.
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Dyche is a well known and eager graduate of the St Georges Park development, often returning to do more courses and tutor the current students. Whilst he's a bit too 'meat and potatoes' for me the fact that he is studying the game and keen to learn makes me like him.
Similarly, if St Georges Park has any value, surely a club like Villa should be able to tap into the resource and recruit one of the more recent, and best, graduates (with an old manager in support, like Hodgson?. In exchange we can buy into and support the footballing philosophy that they're trying to create. There must be other ways than solely approaching agents and/or Ferguson.
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If ever a manager reminds me of MON it's Dyche.
The way he plays 4-4-2 with two touchline hugging wingers (although he seems to have modified it to a 4-5-1 in the last year which was probably needed for Burnley to survive), the fact he very rarely makes changes for the sake of it and often keeps an unchanged 11 game to game and also his adversion to signing foreign players and going for solid british signings to keep the close knit team spirit.
That's not to say it's all bad. He's got more out of Lowton than we ever did (he is less exposed with an actual wide player infront of him to track back) and Westwood is safely tucked up on the substitute bench well away from the pitch unlike the hundred games he started here.
I'm a bit confused why it fell through though. So we offered him a contract with less security than he had at Burnley yet we seemingly ditched that criteria when Steve Bruce indicated he wanted the job?!
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Dyche would have taken the job but wanted a guaranteed 3 year contract regardless of his performance. Wagner would have taken it as long as our promotion clause was not immediate but kicked in this season. Why didn't Bruce get appointed for 3 weeks after the vacancy became available? Despite being available and begging for the chance on that Sky Sunday morning shit? Because 3 others were in the frame and preferred choices. Now he has Wyness in his pocket we are bollocksed.
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Who was the third?
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
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Dyche would have taken the job but wanted a guaranteed 3 year contract regardless of his performance. Wagner would have taken it as long as our promotion clause was not immediate but kicked in this season. Why didn't Bruce get appointed for 3 weeks after the vacancy became available? Despite being available and begging for the chance on that Sky Sunday morning shit? Because 3 others were in the frame and preferred choices. Now he has Wyness in his pocket we are bollocksed.
If that's true re Dyche ( no reason to think it's not by the way) it has made me very, very depressed. Dyche would have been and is exactly what we need
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Dyche would have taken the job but wanted a guaranteed 3 year contract regardless of his performance. Wagner would have taken it as long as our promotion clause was not immediate but kicked in this season. Why didn't Bruce get appointed for 3 weeks after the vacancy became available? Despite being available and begging for the chance on that Sky Sunday morning shit? Because 3 others were in the frame and preferred choices. Now he has Wyness in his pocket we are bollocksed.
If that's true re Dyche ( no reason to think it's not by the way) it has made me very, very depressed. Dyche would have been and is exactly what we need
It is. At the time I took it as a sign of a more savvy board making achievement a requirement for reward. Then we got Bruce on a contract we could fuck him off for pennies on come the end of last season and still didn't do it. Pointing that out is why Wyness and I don't get on.
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Dyche would have taken the job but wanted a guaranteed 3 year contract regardless of his performance. Wagner would have taken it as long as our promotion clause was not immediate but kicked in this season. Why didn't Bruce get appointed for 3 weeks after the vacancy became available? Despite being available and begging for the chance on that Sky Sunday morning shit? Because 3 others were in the frame and preferred choices. Now he has Wyness in his pocket we are bollocksed.
That is so depressing.
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Blimey, what a screw up :(
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All that also makes a mockery of the Bruce was no 1 target, farmed the stats analysis out to some out of house experts to verify he was top performer for every metric that Round has been quoted as saying a few times.
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All that also makes a mockery of the Bruce was no 1 target, farmed the stats analysis out to some out of house experts to verify he was top performer for every metric that Round has been quoted as saying a few times.
Round apparently did "do the numbers" but they backed up Wyness position that Works Spud was the best man for the job.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
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Dyche would have taken the job but wanted a guaranteed 3 year contract regardless of his performance. Wagner would have taken it as long as our promotion clause was not immediate but kicked in this season. Why didn't Bruce get appointed for 3 weeks after the vacancy became available? Despite being available and begging for the chance on that Sky Sunday morning shit? Because 3 others were in the frame and preferred choices. Now he has Wyness in his pocket we are bollocksed.
Very interesting Chelts.
RDM however was sacked on Mon 3rd October. Can't remember when SB was appointed but he was in place for the next league game v Wolves so likely it was only 7-9 days between sacking and appointing.
I was ready to criticise the club but then how often have we lamented in the past giving 3 year deals to the likes of Sherwood and Garde, sacking them after 6 months and having to pay out a decent amount in compensation. McLeish got a 3 year deal aswell didn't he.
That said there worryingly seems to be a lack of joined up thinking from the top that engulfed the Lerner era when key decisions have to be made.
Identifiying Wagner and Dyche as managers to take us forward. Good. Being awkward with them in contract negotations when they'd already be debating long and hard whether to leave their present club. Bad.
Getting knocked back and then giving SB any deal he fancied as we were starting to panic. Very bad.
After the start we made last season I never really considered promotion a serious possibility and nor did I think the club was in a fit state to go straight back up given our numerous issues so quite surprised the club still were peddling that to the prospective managers which seemingly turned them off.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
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RDM was sacked the 3rd and Bruce was appointed the 12th.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
One of the few names that even now could make me glad we have Bruce.
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Dyche would have taken the job but wanted a guaranteed 3 year contract regardless of his performance. Wagner would have taken it as long as our promotion clause was not immediate but kicked in this season. Why didn't Bruce get appointed for 3 weeks after the vacancy became available? Despite being available and begging for the chance on that Sky Sunday morning shit? Because 3 others were in the frame and preferred choices. Now he has Wyness in his pocket we are bollocksed.
If that's true re Dyche ( no reason to think it's not by the way) it has made me very, very depressed. Dyche would have been and is exactly what we need
I'm more gutted about Wagner. He was my first choice. I work with a Huddersfield fan so knew plenty about him. What a ridiculous clause to insist upon promotion within what, 7 months.
It feels like we're still run as incompetently as the Lerner years.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
Two out of three ain't bad, if you're inclined to be charitable. Which I'm not. Jesus wept.
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Dyche would have taken the job but wanted a guaranteed 3 year contract regardless of his performance. Wagner would have taken it as long as our promotion clause was not immediate but kicked in this season. Why didn't Bruce get appointed for 3 weeks after the vacancy became available? Despite being available and begging for the chance on that Sky Sunday morning shit? Because 3 others were in the frame and preferred choices. Now he has Wyness in his pocket we are bollocksed.
If that's true re Dyche ( no reason to think it's not by the way) it has made me very, very depressed. Dyche would have been and is exactly what we need
I'm more gutted about Wagner. He was my first choice. I work with a Huddersfield fan so knew plenty about him. What a ridiculous clause to insist upon promotion within what, 7 months.
It feels like we're still run as incompetently as the Lerner years.
Only thing I'd say on Wagner was his methods would've been difficult to integrate two months into a season. If ever a manager "needed a pre season." (Copyright SoccerHQ on Steve Bruce March-May 2017) it would be him.
Look at the high press game he plays at Huddersfield and also team building things like taking them to a remote Swedish village without mobiles etc and I just chuckle at him coming in and attempting to do that with likes of Bacuna, Gestede, Gabby, Hutton and Richards.
It would've been very much a case of having to wait six months for methods to come into effect so I don't think he'd have secured promotion with us last year.
Dyche would've been a much better fit so disappointed given he seemed open to the idea of leaving Burnley we couldn't get that done but I was also reasonably satisfied with Steve Bruce.
This season is really crucial though. If we don't go up this year next season will be much more difficult as likes of Kodjia and Chester will want to move and the rest will be a year older so would be yet another major squad rebuild on a very reduced budget.
I don't even think we can afford to give SB as much time as RDM as there are 6 games in September so very quickly we'd have played a quarter of the season already by October.
SB really needs to get his finger out and starting winning some games if only to help with our points tally as long term he's a lost cause in his job now.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
I thought as much. What that tells me is that the 4 names which regularly appeared on here the day RDM was sacked are the 4 they spoke to. Add to that some of the recruitment where people on here talked about Lansbury and Hourihane and then we signed them makes me think that sometimes the club just looks to see what the fans want and goes along with it when it comes to signings, McCormack felt like it last summer as well.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
Two out of three ain't bad, if you're inclined to be charitable. Which I'm not. Jesus wept.
To be charitable, he was ruled out very quickly.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
I thought as much. What that tells me is that the 4 names which regularly appeared on here the day RDM was sacked are the 4 they spoke to. Add to that some of the recruitment where people on here talked about Lansbury and Hourihane and then we signed them makes me think that sometimes the club just looks to see what the fans want and goes along with it when it comes to signings, McCormack felt like it last summer as well.
The club have an individual whose job it is to read shit here and elsewhere on the Internet. And report back to the board every Monday.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
I thought as much. What that tells me is that the 4 names which regularly appeared on here the day RDM was sacked are the 4 they spoke to. Add to that some of the recruitment where people on here talked about Lansbury and Hourihane and then we signed them makes me think that sometimes the club just looks to see what the fans want and goes along with it when it comes to signings, McCormack felt like it last summer as well.
The club have an individual whose job it is to read shit here and elsewhere on the Internet. And report back to the board every Monday.
Of course they do, I expect any decent sized club does, my concern is that all to often something that a post on here (or elsewhere) highlights as being obvious and that gets loads of support suddenly happens to be exactly what the club choose to do. It's something that we've seemed to do a few times in the last 5-6 years.
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Altidore's registration was two minutes late. Bloody fax.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
I thought as much. What that tells me is that the 4 names which regularly appeared on here the day RDM was sacked are the 4 they spoke to. Add to that some of the recruitment where people on here talked about Lansbury and Hourihane and then we signed them makes me think that sometimes the club just looks to see what the fans want and goes along with it when it comes to signings, McCormack felt like it last summer as well.
The club have an individual whose job it is to read shit here and elsewhere on the Internet. And report back to the board every Monday.
This has potential for us to have a lot of fun :)
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Jokanovic or Sean Dyche.
I'm not sure either of them would fancy quitting their current jobs to come to us. Especially Dyche dropping down from the PL. Dean Smith would probably fancy it. Maybe Allardyce or Warnock could be tempted by one last big job.
Dyche would have taken the loot and come last season but wouldn't do it on a "promotion or bust" contract. Jokanovic is pissed off at Fulham and might very well be happy to jump ship. Fuck me, we could have had Wagner if we were prepared to have the promotion clause but not until this season.
But we didn't. We gambled on "take any old shot as long as it is well paid", promotion specialist, Bruce and still didn't exercise our right to fuck him off with minimal pay off at the end of last season anyway. It's a shambles.
Bloody hell
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Guardiola would be nice if you're reading this, Keith.
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I maybe missing something, but somebody needs to get a fkn grip of a club with all the potential but no fkn idea.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
Holy fuck. He seems about as far from Wagner as you can get.
Did they inherit Lerner's random manager selection device as part of the takeover deal?
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
Holy fuck. He seems about as far from Wagner as you can get.
I'll take your Pearson and raise you a Steve Bruce. Mad as a hatter he may be but he was no idiot when it came to football.
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
Holy fuck. He seems about as far from Wagner as you can get.
Did they inherit Lerner's random manager selection device as part of the takeover deal?
Leicester won the league you know. Let us excitability wank about how he kept them up. Or such was the message at that time. The other 2 were well thought out candidates and light years ahead of the duffer we got even if he is a nice bloke.
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I'm not that sold on Wagner. Huddersfield just seemed jammy as fuck to get promoted, just as Chelsea were jammy as fuck to win the European Cup. He'd have used up all his luck before joining us just like Di Matteo did.
I recognise this is superstitious nonsense but it makes sense in my brain.
I'd be pretty happy with Dyche if we can't get Mad Marcelo.
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Dyche would have us moaning exactly as we have done from MON through Houllier, McLeish, Lambert, Bruce etc. He's meat and spuds. We're already fat.
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I'm not that sold on Wagner. Huddersfield just seemed jammy as fuck to get promoted, just as Chelsea were jammy as fuck to win the European Cup. He'd have used up all his luck before joining us just like Di Matteo did.
I recognise this is superstitious nonsense but it makes sense in my brain.
I'd be pretty happy with Dyche if we can't get Mad Marcelo.
To be fair, Huddersfield were there and thereabouts pretty much all season and with all due respect to them, it is Huddersfield. I might be totally wrong and he might fail spectacularly, but I suspect there will be a few clubs eyeing him up should they not make a particularly good start and part company with their manager early.
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25 jammy wins, and opening win in the top flight. I wish we were that lucky.
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25 jammy wins, and opening win in the top flight. I wish we were that lucky.
Qualified for the play-offs with two games to go, played his Reserves for the remaining games, kept his first team fresh to win the play-offs, all done on a budget of about £3.5m. Well jammy.
What's ironic is CD wants Bielsa, the guy that Wagner copies so much.
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Negative goal difference, played off the park by us twice, fluked four points. Their equaliser at Villa Park as lucky as any I can remember seeing. Didn't win either leg in the playoff semis, scraped through on penalties after the opposition had conveniently scored an own goal. Didn't win the playoff final, scraped through on penalties.
He could be a good manager or he could just be a lucky sod. I'd rather someone more proven such as Bielsa.
At the moment, he's achieved far less than Lambert had when we appointed him. Or Steve Bruce, come to think of it.
Incidentally, my phone appears to have turned into Father Jack as it keeps correcting "Bielsa" to "Girls".
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I discounted that one because they were shit (they also add nothing to my Wagner and Dyche point).
If it's not a problem I'd like to know who that was because I'm really interested in what sort of shortlist they managed to put together last time.
Fuck it. Pearson.
I thought as much. What that tells me is that the 4 names which regularly appeared on here the day RDM was sacked are the 4 they spoke to. Add to that some of the recruitment where people on here talked about Lansbury and Hourihane and then we signed them makes me think that sometimes the club just looks to see what the fans want and goes along with it when it comes to signings, McCormack felt like it last summer as well.
Not sure I'd take it that far - I don't think you'd need to look at message boards to have picked out Lansbury and Hourihane as potential signings back in January. They were both on the final year of their contract, and the latter was universally regarded as one of the top-performing midfielders in the league in the season's first half. It doesn't really explain the rest of the recruitment in that window either - who really would've picked out Bjarnason or Bree or even Taylor (who I suspect was a case of Swansea making contact for Ayew, and then offering Taylor up when we mentioned that we could use a left back).
McCormack, even at the time, was the sort of signing you get from reading out of the book of alleged conventional wisdoms for succeeding in English football, of buying a "proven goalscorer", right next to the chapters about filling your board with "football men" and getting a manager who's a "safe pair of hands and who knows the division".
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Negative goal difference, played off the park by us twice, fluked four points. Their equaliser at Villa Park as lucky as any I can remember seeing. Didn't win either leg in the playoff semis, scraped through on penalties after the opposition had conveniently scored an own goal. Didn't win the playoff final, scraped through on penalties.
He could be a good manager or he could just be a lucky sod. I'd rather someone more proven such as Bielsa.
At the moment, he's achieved far less than Lambert had when we appointed him. Or Steve Bruce, come to think of it.
Incidentally, my phone appears to have turned into Father Jack as it keeps correcting "Bielsa" to "Girls".
They are Glasgow Huddersfield though, to be fair. Bill Shankly had to fuck of to the sky for a chat with Brendan Rodgers just to get away from them.
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I know what CD means. Huddersfield were... unimpressive, yet they got the results. Fair enough, but can you imagine that working in Villa Park? The new fresh faced big thing?
All I can imagine is a German Lambert. Maybe that's 7 years of shit making it hard to think something may work out.
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Of course he's achieved less, he's been a first team manager for less than 2 years compared to Lambert's 7 when he joined us. Bruce has 17 more years as a manager, how dare Wagner not have achieved as much! ;)
He still got a club promoted in his first full season that in the previous 3 or 4 years had spent less on players than we paid for Fat Ross, and that's just purchases, it doesn't take into account their player sales. I'd say it's all down to him that such a limited squad with all the faults you point out managed to over achieve in a way we can only dream of. Will it last for him, who knows, but i'd take a manager that knows exactly what he wants his players doing and makes sure they do it.
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I think basically, we need a better manager than Bruce. Without staying the absolute obvious.
Is Wagner better? I think after as many years in the game as Bruce, he will be. Is he better now? I've no idea. Huddersfield play better football than we do at present, there is more energy, more goal threat, pressing, excitement-we'd love that dearly down at Villa Park. I highly doubt he'd come, though. He appears loyal and has got Huddersfield to the Premier League. He wants that challenge for now.
I'd be looking abroad. Lazio play good football, Inzaghi would be considered if I had my way, as would the manager at Fiorentina, Pioli. He has, however, just taken up that position. I'd be ambitious and try for these types. Pellegrini, also, who I believe is at Hebei in China. He was very good for Man City, and knows English football.
These managers would add excitement, they know their stuff.
Moyes would turn me into a lawn bowls fan. A huge no.
Oh, and Bielsa, yes fucking please. Imagine him coming in and just tearing up the place. Imagine his video analysis meetings with Agbonlahor and Hutton. There'd be no place to hide for the crap and lazy. Intelligent, progressive players, who I think we do have, would adore him. The ****** brigade would hate it, and they'd be shipped out. Super super management choice. It surely won't happen though, will it?
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We can go with a more progressive option, but the setup has to be right, otherwise we just get a repeat of the Garde situation, where he was completely hung out to dry, not only with the January transfer business, but in inheriting a squad that had no dynamism in midfield, no one who could lead the line, and massive clownshoes in defence. RDM to a lesser extent, in that he had a seriously unbalanced squad to deal with, but he probably had a little bit of a say in that.
I'd think the current squad should be quite well-equipped to offer that. I mean, both centre backs can actually pass now, Whelan and Hourihane have some craft about them, Onomah has come up in that sort of environment at Spurs, and Hogan thrived at a club with that sort of reputation before he came to us.
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I'd be looking abroad. Lazio play good football, Inzaghi would be considered if I had my way, as would the manager at Fiorentina, Pioli. He has, however, just taken up that position. I'd be ambitious and try for these types. Pellegrini, also, who I believe is at Hebei in China. He was very good for Man City, and knows English football.
These managers would add excitement, they know their stuff.
Moyes would turn me into a lawn bowls fan. A huge no.
Oh, and Bielsa, yes fucking please. Imagine him coming in and just tearing up the place. Imagine his video analysis meetings with Agbonlahor and Hutton. There'd be no place to hide for the crap and lazy. Intelligent, progressive players, who I think we do have, would adore him. The c*** brigade would hate it, and they'd be shipped out. Super super management choice. It surely won't happen though, will it?
Great choices.
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We can go with a more progressive option, but the setup has to be right, otherwise we just get a repeat of the Garde situation, where he was completely hung out to dry, not only with the January transfer business, but in inheriting a squad that had no dynamism in midfield, no one who could lead the line, and massive clownshoes in defence. RDM to a lesser extent, in that he had a seriously unbalanced squad to deal with, but he probably had a little bit of a say in that.
I'd think the current squad should be quite well-equipped to offer that. I mean, both centre backs can actually pass now, Whelan and Hourihane have some craft about them, Onomah has come up in that sort of environment at Spurs, and Hogan thrived at a club with that sort of reputation before he came to us.
I agree. Great post. I'm not sure about Whelen, however. He looks cumbersome to me. But it is only two games in.
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We can go with a more progressive option, but the setup has to be right, otherwise we just get a repeat of the Garde situation, where he was completely hung out to dry, not only with the January transfer business, but in inheriting a squad that had no dynamism in midfield, no one who could lead the line, and massive clownshoes in defence. RDM to a lesser extent, in that he had a seriously unbalanced squad to deal with, but he probably had a little bit of a say in that.
I'd think the current squad should be quite well-equipped to offer that. I mean, both centre backs can actually pass now, Whelan and Hourihane have some craft about them, Onomah has come up in that sort of environment at Spurs, and Hogan thrived at a club with that sort of reputation before he came to us.
I agree. Great post. I'm not sure about Whelen, however. He looks cumbersome to me. But it is only two games in.
I mean, presumably, we would've signed Whelan on the understanding that we'd need legs around him to compensate for his lack of mobility. I was speaking more the fact that he appears, from the eye test and from his numbers, and from reputation, much more capable in possession than someone like Jedinak, who I would have no confidence in being able to pass the ball further upfield to our more dynamic players.
Another thing is, this hypothetical progressive manager would be able to recognise that there are occasions where we need to clog things up, for instance by playing both Whelan and Jedinak, We have the means to do that as well, which is why this current one-dimensional approach winds me up so much.
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We can go with a more progressive option, but the setup has to be right, otherwise we just get a repeat of the Garde situation, where he was completely hung out to dry, not only with the January transfer business, but in inheriting a squad that had no dynamism in midfield, no one who could lead the line, and massive clownshoes in defence. RDM to a lesser extent, in that he had a seriously unbalanced squad to deal with, but he probably had a little bit of a say in that.
I'd think the current squad should be quite well-equipped to offer that. I mean, both centre backs can actually pass now, Whelan and Hourihane have some craft about them, Onomah has come up in that sort of environment at Spurs, and Hogan thrived at a club with that sort of reputation before he came to us.
I agree. Great post. I'm not sure about Whelen, however. He looks cumbersome to me. But it is only two games in.
I mean, presumably, we would've signed Whelan on the understanding that we'd need legs around him to compensate for his lack of mobility. I was speaking more the fact that he appears, from the eye test and from his numbers, and from reputation, much more capable in possession than someone like Jedinak, who I would have no confidence in being able to pass the ball further upfield to our more dynamic players.
Another thing is, this hypothetical progressive manager would be able to recognise that there are occasions where we need to clog things up, for instance by playing both Whelan and Jedinak, We have the means to do that as well, which is why this current one-dimensional approach winds me up so much.
Ah, I understand now. A brain fart on my part for not reading your post properly. Apologies!
Yes, I agree. If we're going to play a Whelen or a Jedinak, we need people like Onomah and O'Hare around them, and attacking fullback's like Bree, too. Not Lansbury, Hutton and wasters like Agbonlahor ambling around up front like a 97 year old wild boar.
At home, I wouldn't bother with players like Jedinak or Whelen. Not unless it was a crunch match and we could in no way afford to lose, or a more physical opponent.
Play needs to go through Hourihane in my opinion, especially at home, threading passes to sharp, quick players like Green and O'Hare, who can in turn provide for Kodjia, Hogan and whoever plays up front.
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Chester Terry Bree
Hourihane Jedi Onomah
Green Grealish Elmo
Kodjia
Be interesting to see (Johnstone in goal natutally).
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Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.
Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.
All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.
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Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.
Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.
All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.
What about the difference in squad quality?
Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.
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Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.
Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.
All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.
What about the difference in squad quality?
Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.
What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.
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I agree that we should copy Man City and Chelsea and sack our manager as soon as it's clear tat he's not going to do what he was hired for in the first place. You won't see either of them hanging on to a lame duck manager
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Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.
Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.
All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.
What about the difference in squad quality?
Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.
What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.
That last bit is exactly right, and absolutely hits the nail on the head as to why hiring Bruce was such a bad move. If we were really planning on building gradually, we needed a forward thinking, progressive manager, with a clear philosophy and game plan. Even Bruce's biggest fans wouldn't claim that he is that. Wagner might have been, but we'll never know for sure. I think it's foolish to play down what he has done at Huddersfield though, it's an incredible job he's done there.
We gambled that Bruce would be able to sneak us into the playoffs last year, which I guess wasn't a ridiculous move, and for a while it looked like we had a shot. Around Christmas, we looked on course. However, we faded away (/fell off a cliff) so it didn't pay off.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it now looks like we should have cut our losses in May and started the rebuilding process all over again.
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Julian Nagelsmann gets my vote:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/15/hoffenheim-julian-nagelsmann-liverpool-champions-league
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Stick or twist, it's a gamble. A lot of people said we should have binned Sherwood at the end of the Cup Final season, hindsight would prove them right. Same with Bruce, I can see why we chose him, but it's not working now however it would have been a big decision to sack him over the summer.
Any manager coming in is a gamble, clubs get it wrong more than they get it right. Look at the managers Spurs, Everton, Liverpool and even Chelsea have had and then got rid of. It's even more tough at a mid-table Championship side (albeit with a lot of potential).
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Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.
Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.
All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.
What about the difference in squad quality?
Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.
What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.
Agree with all of that. Everyone has a different idea what constitutes SB having had enough time before it is too late for someone else to come in and get us up - as you say no-one is nailed on success and we could be in same position not long from now.
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Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.
Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.
All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.
What about the difference in squad quality?
Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.
What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.
Yeah, and there's also been plenty of occasions where a team with more individual quality about them overcomes a well-drilled but inferior team. The only thing you can say comfortably is that you need a mix of both to go places. The fact that Wagner didn't do that well straight away, and got promoted the hard way is far more acceptable in the context where he didn't have a team that was filled with quality players.
As for Bruce, yes, there's been a fair bit of upheaval since he arrived, but most of the players in the squad he's had for at least seven months plus a full pre-season. Sure, it's unfair to expect things to be totally settled and sorted, but the point is, he's done fuck-all to suggest that he's making any progress whatsoever towards that ultimate aim.
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You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?
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Quite right, those 30 minutes against Hull were scintillating. We will look back on those 30 minutes in years to come and miss that golden period.
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You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?
What good is less than half of a game of looking like a decent team if it doesn't get you a result?
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You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?
What good is less than half of a game of looking like a decent team if it doesn't get you a result?
What is the point of asking an irrelevant question to answer a question?
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You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?
If you want me to amend my post to make it "sustained progress" I can do that, but I would've thought that descriptor goes without saying.
We had good stretches during games last season under Bruce as well, and each time, it proved to be fleeting, just like what happened at Hull.
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You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?
What good is less than half of a game of looking like a decent team if it doesn't get you a result?
The problem is that we have been so unaccustomed to any period of half decent football that there is an inclination to go overboard and think that at last we've cracked it. Unfortunately those brief periods of accidental adequacy just do not compare with the very real quality that Villa teams served up on a consistent basis to those with memories long enough to remember.
As an aside it would be interesting to compare results pre and post Calderwood appointment as I am not convinced he has added anything of a positive nature.
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The Calderwood thing is really odd. Before he joined the general thinking was he was a big part of Brightons success. It now seems maybe not so much. It is strange that he hasn't been able to replicate any of their qualities on our team notwithstanding the expensively assembled squad.
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Bruce only had 6 games in charge before Calderwood joined so you couldn't really make a case for anything.
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Phelan and Bruce seemed to work better. I have long thought that managers are only as good as the relationship with their number 2. Bruce has had some very decent ones down the years but he and Calderwood doubt seem to be working. If he got Phelan in tomorrow I reckon it would result in improved results. Nothing against Calderwood but the chemistry has to be right with the coaching team.
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Phelan and Bruce seemed to work better. I have long thought that managers are only as good as the relationship with their number 2. Bruce has had some very decent ones down the years but he and Calderwood doubt seem to be working. If he got Phelan in tomorrow I reckon it would result in improved results. Nothing against Calderwood but the chemistry has to be right with the coaching team.
On match day they hardly speak to each other until we inevitably go behind and then collectively look down the line to see who is warming up. There seems to be no plan, no conviction as they dally about in making a sub
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Slavisa Jokanovic
Dean Smith
Brendan Rogers
Any of those 3 & I'd be happy.
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Slavisa Jokanovic
Dean Smith
Brendan Rogers
Any of those 3 & I'd be happy.
Me too. And what an honour to communicate with the world's greatest living Penrice, if I might be so bold.
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Slavisa Jokanovic
Dean Smith
Brendan Rogers
Any of those 3 & I'd be happy.
Non of whom I imagine would shit on their current clubs by leaving them 2 games into the season. I suspect Rogers wouldn't consider it at all, the other two would probably be gettable with more sensible timing.
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The other two are perfectly gettable now. I wouldn't want Smith though.
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The other two are perfectly gettable now. I wouldn't want Smith though.
It's hypothetical, but I doubt Jokanovic would leave Fulham right now nor would they let him break his contract.
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Didn't Gordon Strachan leave the Hibs tribute act to join Middlesbrough? It must be at least feasible that we could entice Rodgers.
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Didn't Gordon Strachan leave the Hibs tribute act to join Middlesbrough? It must be at least feasible that we could entice Rodgers.
Not on their current unbeaten run. Jokanovic is pissed off with the transfer situation at Fulham and very much one we could nab if we wanted to.
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Phelan and Bruce seemed to work better. I have long thought that managers are only as good as the relationship with their number 2. Bruce has had some very decent ones down the years but he and Calderwood doubt seem to be working. If he got Phelan in tomorrow I reckon it would result in improved results. Nothing against Calderwood but the chemistry has to be right with the coaching team.
Wasn't Steve Agnew more his number two at Hull. I remember we tried to get him but he wanted to stay at Boro.
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Steve Agnew is the reason Boro have banned the local paper as they had the nerve to ask if he still had a role at the club.
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I liked that manager that got Watford promoted and midtable in the Prem the year we went down, very harshly sacked at the end of that season. Sanchez Flores I think he was called. He's at Espanyol now.
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Jokanovic is still the only credible name standing out to me
Brendan Rodgers? No chance
Fear it would just be too big a challenge for Smith
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Who ever it is has to deal with the albatross in the room called John Terry. I cant help but feel he's done us more harm than good - and I thought that before a ball was even kicked.
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Brendan Rodgers?
That would be like leaving your part time job as an ice cream taster and working at the abattoir seven days a week.
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Jokanovic is still the only credible name standing out to me
Brendan Rodgers? No chance
Fear it would just be too big a challenge for Smith
What constitutes a credible name? Before answering bear in mind that Wolves have a guy who's 2 previous clubs were Valencia and Porto.
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Jaap Stam seems to be doing o.k at this level. Would imagine we'd be enquiring about his contract situation as/when.
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Jokanovic is still the only credible name standing out to me
Brendan Rodgers? No chance
Fear it would just be too big a challenge for Smith
What constitutes a credible name? Before answering bear in mind that Wolves have a guy who's 2 previous clubs were Valencia and Porto.
Exactly. It's settling for managers that we've thought would "do a job" that is largely responsible for our downfall.
Be ambitious. Be bold. Be-elsa.
(Doesn't really work typed out, but still)
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Who ever it is has to deal with the albatross in the room called John Terry. I cant help but feel he's done us more harm than good - and I thought that before a ball was even kicked.
I can see him being another Micah Richards. He'll be despised by our fans in a few weeks and will create all kinds of problems in the dressing room
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Agreed. "Championship experience" clearly counts for nothing as we have proven. I would happily take a manager who has never played or managed in the UK/Ireland before. In fact I would prefer it.
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But I worry that we're now very unattractive - we can't really but anyone else and we probably need to sell someone good next year unless we get promoted
Wolves are attractive because they're buying excellent players. We're not
Point taken that there probably are some imaginative candidates out there that haven't been mentioned
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I get the feeling that whoever we get in, it'll disappoint ninety-nine percent of the fans.
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Claude Puel? Did OK with Southampton last year & singing on. He'd be no Remi Garde.
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Claude Puel? Did OK with Southampton last year & singing on. He'd be no Remi Garde.
what with Eric Black ? nnnoooooo
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Who ever it is has to deal with the albatross in the room called John Terry. I cant help but feel he's done us more harm than good - and I thought that before a ball was even kicked.
I can see him being another Micah Richards. He'll be despised by our fans in a few weeks and will create all kinds of problems in the dressing room
Despisedin a few weeks? How about from when he was signed.
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Who ever it is has to deal with the albatross in the room called John Terry. I cant help but feel he's done us more harm than good - and I thought that before a ball was even kicked.
I can see him being another Micah Richards. He'll be despised by our fans in a few weeks and will create all kinds of problems in the dressing room
The problems we now have were here last season. Nothing to do with Terry although his influence so far seems to be nada
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I liked that manager that got Watford promoted and midtable in the Prem the year we went down, very harshly sacked at the end of that season. Sanchez Flores I think he was called. He's at Espanyol now.
Yep good shout but he'd be mental to leave Espanyol to come here and he's only a year into the job (finished 8th last season).
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Barry Fry.
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Who ever it is has to deal with the albatross in the room called John Terry. I cant help but feel he's done us more harm than good - and I thought that before a ball was even kicked.
I can see him being another Micah Richards. He'll be despised by our fans in a few weeks and will create all kinds of problems in the dressing room
The problems we now have were here last season. Nothing to do with Terry although his influence so far seems to be nada
His signing has resulted in chesters loss of confidence/form. Defensively we looked ok last year now we've conceded 6 in 3. Looks like a new problem to me
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Jaap Stam seems to be doing o.k at this level. Would imagine we'd be enquiring about his contract situation as/when.
As we should be. Doing a very good job. We clearly need someone much more technically and tactically gifted than Bruce. I fear we would end up with Moyes or Terry. The latter would be a huge gamble but would probably do very well as he would surround himself with good coaches I reckon, the former would be an utter disaster.
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I have to be honest and say if I was an up and coming manager I don't think i'd touch us with a barge pole at present.
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I have to be honest and say if I was an up and coming manager I don't think i'd touch us with a barge pole at present.
Nor would I PWS.
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I have to be honest and say if I was an up and coming manager I don't think i'd touch us with a barge pole at present.
My view is that we'll always be a big draw if we play it properly because the guy who gets it right will be lauded as a miracle worker. Managing us requires a degree of cockiness (along with other things) so the risk of ruining your rep shouldn't cross your mind and if it does you're probably not who we need.
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Problem is we're nowhere near the draw we were even a few years ago. We're 23rd in Division 2 with no money to spend. I know managers and players have to be full of self belief and cockiness, i'd be tempted swerve this mess though.
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In Bruce's eye Terry is un-droppable so that becomes a problem. Bruce said he's only half way though the change I thought this was the season he had to get us promoted.
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In Bruce's eye Terry is un-droppable so that becomes a problem. Bruce said he's only half way though the change I thought this was the season he had to get us promoted.
He's building a side with the plan being we absolutely smash promotion next year. From Division 3.
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Problem is we're nowhere near the draw we were even a few years ago.
Sad thing is, we're no longer the draw we were two weeks ago. That goes both for potential managers and players.
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If Bruce does go the last thing I want to see is one of the dinosaurs Moyes, Allardyce, Hodgson, Pardew through the door.
Who are the more left field targets? Phil Neville - unlike his brother has actually gone away to learn his trade? Derek McInnes has done well with Aberdeen? Phil Parkinson got Bolton promoted amongst financial meltdown? Aitor Karanka did great in Championship with Boro, looked out of depth in Prem & signed some of our dross. Mark Warburton, Forest still seems a bit of a soap opera so maybe could be spirited away?
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Colin Wanker. I hate to say it but he has the spiteful, arrogance and know how to fuck shit up.
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We need a manager who has been successful at a much higher level to turn this around, hence why I am praying for Bielsa. Others of similar ilk, if they could be convinced to join, would be Prandelli, Pellegrini, maybe even Capello.
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Why would any decent Manager take us on?
A squad now full of old players that are not going anywhere, because of FPP no money available to change things.
No new talent to base a turnaround.
I think Bruce just wasted our last shot at redemption.
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Like many I now share the view that Bruce has to go
But this thread has reinforced my view about the difficulty we'll have getting someone better
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Why would any decent Manager take us on?
A squad now full of old players that are not going anywhere, because of FPP no money available to change things.
No new talent to base a turnaround.
I think Bruce just wasted our last shot at redemption.
He won't have done though will he. As much as I think he's got to go, he's not our last hope. Look at what Warnock has spent at Cardiff for example. We are 3 or 4 very well scouted and decently managed players from going up. Essentially a bit of pace and power with some decent tactics. We all saw what happened when Hourihane finally went forward last night for example. Until we have tactics that allow midfielders to join the attack or give or defence a break by controlling the ball, we will get beaten. Bruce is the big issue at the moment. We have done good players they just need coaching ahs directing. We also sift need to spend fortunes to suppliment the squad just scout cleverly. Others are doing it in this division it's time we did.
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That analysis makes a lot of sense
But you then reflect that we've basically said this about every manager since MON. It's hard to be confident that New Manager X is going to be the one to turn it around
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We need a manager who has been successful at a much higher level to turn this around, hence why I am praying for Bielsa. Others of similar ilk, if they could be convinced to join, would be Prandelli, Pellegrini, maybe even Capello.
Yep, start the search on that level at least.
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Agree completely ozz. PWS pointed out a couple of days ago that the player who scored two goals for Cardiff against us had gone to them on a free transfer in the summer from Rochdale. Money is NOT the answer. Money has made us become a football trough for wasters, chancers and non triers to want to get their snouts in. Players and staff.
To paraphrase Jack Kennedy, who was the last player we signed who asked himself what can I do for Aston Villa? Not what can Aston Villa do for me?
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The money thing is why I would be looking at people who are more up and coming in this division or abroad though. We need someone that understand how to find a bargain and that you didn't have to spent 15m on every striker you sign as long as the one you get fits with your strategy for how you want to play.
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
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The money thing is why I would be looking at people who are more up and coming in this division or abroad though. We need someone that understand how to find a bargain and that you didn't have to spent 15m on every striker you sign as long as the one you get fits with your strategy for how you want to play.
Didn't we go through that stage with Lambert though? The problem then was that we didn't develop them well at all - I think that's more the issue. Lowton's suddenly become a passable PL-level fullback since he's left us. Likewise, I have a sneaking suspicion Westwood, the scapegoat to end all scapegoats, should contribute at least in a squad capacity now that he's over there as well. At the other end of the scale, we bought talented youngsters for good fees in Amavi and Veretout, and made little progress with them.
The players we're buying may indeed be wasters, but it's really hard to know for sure the way we've been set up.
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Big Sam.
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We don't have the players to suit Allardyce. No run all day midfielders, no big unit up front. If we'd appointed him in May, with more time to bring people in, it could have worked. Now we need someone who will largely get the best out of the existing squad and I'm not sure that is Big Sam.
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Big Sams available, he's an easy option, lazy option sure but it's Wayness we're talking about here,
Let's get it done then we can all go through the same shit again in another 12 months time
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Big Sams available, he's an easy option, lazy option sure but it's Wayness we're talking about here,
Let's get it done then we can all go through the same shit again in another 12 months time
So is Moyes, but I think he falls into the same category you go on to mention. I think we need a totally different direction if / when Bruce goes. Someone who is going to come in and work on improving the young players we have at the club and not just go for the obvious options.
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I wouldnt want big sam. I have had enough of the "sure its ugly but look its safe and will work" routine.
I would sooner go for the "maybe we will go up , maybe not, but we will be proud of the way we play" one.
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Big Sams available, he's an easy option, lazy option sure but it's Wayness we're talking about here,
Let's get it done then we can all go through the same shit again in another 12 months time
So is Moyes, but I think he falls into the same category you go on to mention. I think we need a totally different direction if / when Bruce goes. Someone who is going to come in and work on improving the young players we have at the club and not just go for the obvious options.
When we went down I wanted Moyes, but I'm not sure I do these days. Also supported Bruce but it's clear that things aren't working out for him. The way I see it, the players we brought in haven't turned into bad players overnight, but good championship players are usually only really good in a certain formation with a specific mix of team mates supporting. If they were able to be very good in different formations then they would be playing at a higher level already.
Fuck knows who we go for now, but we need to change it to have any hope of going up this season. No waiting about until mid-October when it's too late.
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Karanka is my pick, the list of unemployed managers is depressing.
http://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/07/01/5957b8b0e5fdead17a8b45ce.html
Good read.
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Agree completely ozz. PWS pointed out a couple of days ago that the player who scored two goals for Cardiff against us had gone to them on a free transfer in the summer from Rochdale. Money is NOT the answer. Money has made us become a football trough for wasters, chancers and non triers to want to get their snouts in. Players and staff.
To paraphrase Jack Kennedy, who was the last player we signed who asked himself what can I do for Aston Villa? Not what can Aston Villa do for me?
This. Throw in the soft-play spa that is Bodymoor Heath, the comfort, the expectation and the ingrained sense of entitlement that comes with being Aston Villa, and you've got a very difficult team to manage. Whoever comes in needs to have the strength of personality to challenge and change all that. And then he has to win over the fans. And then he has to get us promoted.
The problem is we're in such a mess, and so desperate not to be, that the most promising managers will be very wary of ruining their careers here. It'll be the journeymen past the peak of their careers who'll fancy giving it a go, because what would they have to lose?
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Xia will obviously give the job to Terry.
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Imagine Dwight Yorke will reappear in the next few days to throw his hat in the ring
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Agree completely ozz. PWS pointed out a couple of days ago that the player who scored two goals for Cardiff against us had gone to them on a free transfer in the summer from Rochdale. Money is NOT the answer. Money has made us become a football trough for wasters, chancers and non triers to want to get their snouts in. Players and staff.
To paraphrase Jack Kennedy, who was the last player we signed who asked himself what can I do for Aston Villa? Not what can Aston Villa do for me?
Yes. There is some talk today of us being interested in Jack Wilshere. No please no not another waster hired to massive wages sucking the life out of the Villa.
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Karanka is my pick, the list of unemployed managers is depressing.
http://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/07/01/5957b8b0e5fdead17a8b45ce.html
Good read.
Why do they have to be unemployed? We seem happy throwing millions at sub-standard players, why can't we invest some cash in securing a decent manager? Look at Benitez, no one thought he'd be at Newcastle but they made it happen and he got them sorted and won the league. I'm tired of chancing it on has been managers or rookies - Recruit some quality. Houllier was probably the last quality manager we had but it was the wrong time. Look at the list since then (it's embarrassing) and maybe you can see why we are where we are and how much have we paid out in contract settlements? That could have been used to get someone with pedigree.
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Olof Melberg and new coaches, would Terry be a good choice as a coach?
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Terry is not a coach. He is a retired footballer living in a rest home at B6.
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Karanka is my pick, the list of unemployed managers is depressing.
http://www.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2017/07/01/5957b8b0e5fdead17a8b45ce.html
Good read.
Why do they have to be unemployed? We seem happy throwing millions at sub-standard players, why can't we invest some cash in securing a decent manager? Look at Benitez, no one thought he'd be at Newcastle but they made it happen and he got them sorted and won the league. I'm tired of chancing it on has been managers or rookies - Recruit some quality. Houllier was probably the last quality manager we had but it was the wrong time. Look at the list since then (it's embarrassing) and maybe you can see why we are where we are and how much have we paid out in contract settlements? That could have been used to get someone with pedigree.
Which manager, with pedigree and in a job will come here? Rafa joined Newcastle in the Premier league.
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Olof Melberg and new coaches, would Terry be a good choice as a coach?
Mellberg was a great player but he's done nothing to suggest he could manage a football club to success.
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Terry is not a coach. He is a retired footballer living in a rest home at B6.
Our next manager must be capable of changing that attitude, make us better or bugger off elsewhere
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Olof Melberg and new coaches, would Terry be a good choice as a coach?
Mellberg was a great player but he's done nothing to suggest he could manage a football club to success.
I thought his record to date is quite impressive
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I know he's not long joined Derby, but would Gary Rowett still be in anyones thoughts as he was held in quite high esteem when he was doing a good job for that lot? Having a third ex-Blose boss in recent history wouldn't sit well with some, but apparently he's only on a 2 year contract at Derby so I'd imagine the compensation pay off wouldn't be too extortionate.
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Terry is not a coach. He is a retired footballer living in a rest home at B6.
Part time.
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Olof Melberg and new coaches, would Terry be a good choice as a coach?
Mellberg was a great player but he's done nothing to suggest he could manage a football club to success.
I thought his record to date is quite impressive
In which division?
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I know this sounds silly after last night, but Reading are so boring to watch. Possession football obviously has its merits, but a more direct team would have but 4 or 5 past us last night. They seemed far too content to just move the ball aimlessly around the pitch for the first half. Not sure I could stomach watching that every week.
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I don't trust managers who buy Bacuna
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We could give Fernando Nelson a phone call to find out the next hot property from Portugal for Manager.
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I don't trust managers who buy Bacuna
Would you trust a manager who buys Lowton and Westwood?
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I know this sounds silly after last night, but Reading are so boring to watch. Possession football obviously has its merits, but a more direct team would have but 4 or 5 past us last night. They seemed far too content to just move the ball aimlessly around the pitch for the first half. Not sure I could stomach watching that every week.
I bet you could "stomach" the season Stam had last year compared to what you've been watching since 2012! I could
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I don't trust managers who buy Bacuna
Would you trust a manager who buys Lowton and Westwood?
Not really
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More I think about it the more tempted I would be to give it to Dean Smith and ask him to imprint an actual style of play on us.
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More I think about it the more tempted I would be to give it to Dean Smith and ask him to imprint an actual style of play on us.
Could be a more modern Brian Little for us.
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I don't trust managers who buy Bacuna
Would you trust a manager who buys Lowton and Westwood?
Not really
Not really.
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I don't trust managers who buy Bacuna
I don't trust managers who have bought Bacuna.
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What about Jaap Stam?
He seems to have found his feet in this division.
I don't trust managers who buy Bacuna
I don't trust managers who have bought Bacuna.
Don't worry, Bruce will survive, we'll win the next three in a row. It's the Aston Villa way.
It's a beautiful day.
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Dean Smith.
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As suggested a couple of pages back, I'd be tempted by Karanka. Took over Boro in a similar position to where we are now and saw gradual, constant improvement. Article states he wants to stay in UK for his kids' education.
My one concern - he's another defensive minded coach.
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One win in nine league games and counting. I still think it is too soon to get rid but whether Bruce stays or goes I would like to see Brian Little have some input regarding the first team. I'm not sure how much, if any he has at the moment. People talking about Bruce being a 'promotion' expert should remember Brian Little has a number of promotions to his name too.
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Is there an up and coming young manager we could use and get Brian Little into the set-up. My big issue is there doesn't seem to be a manager out there who I can think of who can replace Bruce, absolutely no one.
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Are we talking about the likes of Smith and Little because they are 'Villa men'? Maybe we need someone with no connection to the club, but a dispassionate and incisive view of what the club really is, and why it's really failing again and again. I doubt any of us can see its true place in the world, and what it really needs to function properly, through our claret and blue spectacles.
My fears, as ever, are that long-term our problems go beyond formations, selections, tactics, etc. We need a manager that understands all aspects of the game, both the club and the team. It's going to be a tough task finding him.
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You know it's bad when you have the thought "Neil Warnock might sort this lot out". Colin fecking Wanker popped into my head as a possible manager of Aston Villa.
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You know it's bad when you have the thought "Neil Warnock might sort this lot out". Colin fecking Wanker popped into my head as a possible manager of Aston Villa.
I wonder how much his Cardiff team who beat us 3-0 cost in comparison to our line up that day?
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As suggested a couple of pages back, I'd be tempted by Karanka. Took over Boro in a similar position to where we are now and saw gradual, constant improvement. Article states he wants to stay in UK for his kids' education.
My one concern - he's another defensive minded coach.
I'd rather a defensive minded coach than one who doesn't seem to put much emphasis on either attack or defence!
That said, I think Dean smith would be my current choice. Would hopefully know how to get the best out of Hogan, for one thing. If we got him in now, he might also have time to persuade Jota and Ryan Woods to join him.
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I'd like us to find the next Poch.
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Some eager assistant from somewhere around Europe seems to be the new fad.
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Dean Smith. Good at this level. Potential to get better. Good interpersonal skills. Plus a dream job for him. We should have grabbed Rowett or Houghton when we had the chance
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I'd like us to find the next Poch.
Totally agree. Let's go for it and get someone that could be the one to build something to last. None of this three separate teams rubbish.
I'd be quite happy if I've never heard of our next manager. At least it means the board have put some effort and creativity into it. Two attributes that are missing throughout the whole club.
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Are we talking about the likes of Smith and Little because they are 'Villa men'? Maybe we need someone with no connection to the club, but a dispassionate and incisive view of what the club really is, and why it's really failing again and again. I doubt any of us can see its true place in the world, and what it really needs to function properly, through our claret and blue spectacles.
My fears, as ever, are that long-term our problems go beyond formations, selections, tactics, etc. We need a manager that understands all aspects of the game, both the club and the team. It's going to be a tough task finding him.
I'm basing Dean Smith on a team that outplayed us twice last season, score goals and are pleasing on the eye. They are also massively overachieving.
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I'd like us to find the next Poch.
Why would we want a little boy made out of wood?
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
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Olof Melberg and new coaches, would Terry be a good choice as a coach?
Mellberg was a great player but he's done nothing to suggest he could manage a football club to success.
I thought his record to date is quite impressive
In which division?
I have no idea, you tell me
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
I guess he wouldn't. Both ships have sailed
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
Exactly
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Dean Smith for me.
Sick of French coaches with potential, dinosaur managers who have been there and done it I want a fucking Manager that can the best out of whatever he has, good or bad.
I want a manager who goes in that dressing room and gets their fucking veins on their necks pumping.
We are Aston Fucking Villa.
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Are we talking about the likes of Smith and Little because they are 'Villa men'? Maybe we need someone with no connection to the club, but a dispassionate and incisive view of what the club really is, and why it's really failing again and again. I doubt any of us can see its true place in the world, and what it really needs to function properly, through our claret and blue spectacles.
My fears, as ever, are that long-term our problems go beyond formations, selections, tactics, etc. We need a manager that understands all aspects of the game, both the club and the team. It's going to be a tough task finding him.
I really don't think we need to think that deeply. We just need someone who can coach some players to play in an effective system. Benitez didn't need to change the culture of the club at Newcastle to get them promoted. Just need to get them conceding fewer goals and scoring more. By the looks of it Grayson is making a decent fist of doing the same at Sunderland. Bruce's ineptitude shouldn't be blamed on anything other than him.
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
Oh that old chestnut...why would any employed manager leave their position to come to Villa? If we don't go headhunting an employed manager and only go for someone out of work then we're going to be looking at a very limited number of disappointing options. We may as well stick with Bruce and accept our fate if that is also the defeatist attitude of the club.
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
Oh that old chestnut...why would any employed manager leave their position to come to Villa? If we don't go headhunting an employed manager and only go for someone out of work then we're going to be looking at a very limited number of disappointing options. We may as well stick with Bruce and accept our fate if that is also the defeatist attitude of the club.
So why would he leave Derby?
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You know it's bad when you have the thought "Neil Warnock might sort this lot out". Colin fecking Wanker popped into my head as a possible manager of Aston Villa.
The problem with suggestions like Warnock and Allardyce is that Bruce is from that very same school and it was thought at time that he would bring the same attributes that they possess (get us organised, get us fit, wouldn't stand any nonsense, would sort the dressing room out, would sort out the likes of Agbonlahor and Richards etc.). The fact that he has failed to do pretty much any of those things might suggest it is time to look at another way.
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I want someone who's miffed to be here, who looks around and thinks what a shambles. Someone for whom the job is not the pinnacle of their career, who is not proud to be managing such a 'famous old club', and who couldn't give a shite about 1982. Someone who just sorts the mess out. The problem is he'll start with a crap squad full of 'stars' who think they're better than they are and no chance to change it anytime soon.
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More money, bigger club, more ambitious...and above all else, any football manager worthy of the job title knows and respects what a big job and name Aston Villa is in English football regardless of the current position we're in even if some of our fans and media would like to think otherwise.
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I've resigned myself that nothing will happen until after the Bristol City game so giving any new manager 41 games to salvage something of this shambles, any points picked up in the next 2 games will be a bonus, but hopefully not detract from the outcome that is required from the Dr.
Oh and Dean Smith or Karanka for me.
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Are we talking about the likes of Smith and Little because they are 'Villa men'? Maybe we need someone with no connection to the club, but a dispassionate and incisive view of what the club really is, and why it's really failing again and again. I doubt any of us can see its true place in the world, and what it really needs to function properly, through our claret and blue spectacles.
My fears, as ever, are that long-term our problems go beyond formations, selections, tactics, etc. We need a manager that understands all aspects of the game, both the club and the team. It's going to be a tough task finding him.
I really don't think we need to think that deeply. We just need someone who can coach some players to play in an effective system. Benitez didn't need to change the culture of the club at Newcastle to get them promoted. Just need to get them conceding fewer goals and scoring more. By the looks of it Grayson is making a decent fist of doing the same at Sunderland. Bruce's ineptitude shouldn't be blamed on anything other than him.
I hope you're right. But Newcastle weren't in as big a mess as we were / are. Not by a long chalk. We seem to be getting through a lot of managers and players, and two owners, and we keep on failing. There is only one constant in all of this. My fear is that, long term, something more fundamental needs fixing than what's on the pitch. Short term, we might be able to find what's needed to get promotion.
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I want someone who's miffed to be here, who looks around and thinks what a shambles. Someone for whom the job is not the pinnacle of their career, who is not proud to be managing such a 'famous old club', and who couldn't give a shite about 1982. Someone who just sorts the mess out. The problem is he'll start with a crap squad full of 'stars' who think they're better than they are and no chance to change it anytime soon.
You mean a modern day David O'Leary.
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I want someone who's miffed to be here, who looks around and thinks what a shambles. Someone for whom the job is not the pinnacle of their career, who is not proud to be managing such a 'famous old club', and who couldn't give a shite about 1982. Someone who just sorts the mess out. The problem is he'll start with a crap squad full of 'stars' who think they're better than they are and no chance to change it anytime soon.
You mean a modern day David O'Leary.
Got me there. And that's the problem. We've tried every type of manager and it never seems to make a difference. I'm in a small minority I know, but I'd love O'Neill back.
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I want someone who's miffed to be here, who looks around and thinks what a shambles. Someone for whom the job is not the pinnacle of their career, who is not proud to be managing such a 'famous old club', and who couldn't give a shite about 1982. Someone who just sorts the mess out. The problem is he'll start with a crap squad full of 'stars' who think they're better than they are and no chance to change it anytime soon.
You mean a modern day David O'Leary.
Got me there. And that's the problem. We've tried every type of manager and it never seems to make a difference. I'm in a small minority I know, but I'd love O'Neill back.
I'd take O'Neill back too. Him or Allardyce both have the ego and confidence in themselves that you need to be a success at the Villa.
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Small minority indeed! The things we're complaining about on here - not kicking on, despite being high spenders not playing progressive football, fitness issues, inexplicable selections - they're all very very familiar to me. Still, I guess his trademark league position would be enough for the playoffs.
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Brendan Rodgers is the man. Yes he loves Celtic and all that, but he has unfinished business south of the border, knows the potential here, did a good job at Swansea and (IMO) at 'The Mighty Reds YNWA', has done a fine job up in Scotland, and would I believe come if the money and the conditions were appropriate.
No more dinosaurs - please! Learn from past mistakes for christ sake.
A foreign manager with no experience in UK (at this stage given the precipice this club is on) is too much of a gamble.
I like Smith, Warburton, etc but again, can they manage a truly 'big' club with 'big' expectations.
Rodgers ticks most of the boxes for me.
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
Oh that old chestnut...why would any employed manager leave their position to come to Villa? If we don't go headhunting an employed manager and only go for someone out of work then we're going to be looking at a very limited number of disappointing options. We may as well stick with Bruce and accept our fate if that is also the defeatist attitude of the club.
There's a massive difference between poaching a manager in the summer and two weeks into a season. To get someone now means a manager willing to absolutely shite on his existing club and that said club rolling over and allowing it to happen. I really can't see many managers being prepared to do this or clubs likely to bend over for us.
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I want someone who's miffed to be here, who looks around and thinks what a shambles. Someone for whom the job is not the pinnacle of their career, who is not proud to be managing such a 'famous old club', and who couldn't give a shite about 1982. Someone who just sorts the mess out. The problem is he'll start with a crap squad full of 'stars' who think they're better than they are and no chance to change it anytime soon.
So you want David O'Leary back? ;)
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
Oh that old chestnut...why would any employed manager leave their position to come to Villa? If we don't go headhunting an employed manager and only go for someone out of work then we're going to be looking at a very limited number of disappointing options. We may as well stick with Bruce and accept our fate if that is also the defeatist attitude of the club.
There's a massive difference between poaching a manager in the summer and two weeks into a season. To get someone now means a manager willing to absolutely shite on his existing club and that said club rolling over and allowing it to happen. I really can't see many managers being prepared to do this or clubs likely to bend over for us.
You mean like Brian Little in 1994?
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Rodgers could walk into a job in the top half of the PL.
Warburton did relatively good job at Sevco, which is a sort of big job. Not sure I'd want him here (rather him than Bruce though, obvs.)
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Fair enough.
@ everyone - please stop with your ridiculous suggestions of any manager that is currently employed...that includes Bielsa, Smith, Rodgers, Warburton, etc;
Please only post suggestions of currently unemployed managers.
Could we edit the thread topic to "Unemployed Manager suggestions" please.
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Just because you consider it "ridiculous" to approach a manager currently in employment, doesn't make it so.
Especially as we contacted Wagner and Dyche last time.
Anyone who thinks we couldn't poach the Brentford manager probably needs a trip to the GP to acquire some Prozac.
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Just because you consider it "ridiculous" to approach a manager currently in employment, doesn't make it so.
Especially as we contacted Wagner and Dyche last time.
We're in that territory now where we start to take self deprecation to the point of ridiculous.
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It's clearly not me that thinks it's ridiculous CD.
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It's clearly not me that thinks it's ridiculous CD.
That's how I read your post. Were you referencing somebody else? Apologies if I missed it.
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Just because you consider it "ridiculous" to approach a manager currently in employment, doesn't make it so.
Especially as we contacted Wagner and Dyche last time.
Anyone who thinks we couldn't poach the Brentford manager probably needs a trip to the GP to acquire some Prozac.
And which of those two agreed to join us?
Nobody is saying it's ridiculous to approach managers. But the reality is that the pool of those likely to come right now is probably very limited.
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It's clearly not me that thinks it's ridiculous CD.
That's how I read your post. Were you referencing somebody else? Apologies if I missed it.
Please read responses to my previous posts on the last couple of pages. I actually agree with you.
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Rodgers could walk into a job in the top half of the PL.
Warburton did relatively good job at Sevco, which is a sort of big job. Not sure I'd want him here (rather him than Bruce though, obvs.)
Sure someone said the same about Lennon, how did that work out for him.
Big Nose will never work in the Prem again, thankfully.
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Just because you consider it "ridiculous" to approach a manager currently in employment, doesn't make it so.
Especially as we contacted Wagner and Dyche last time.
Anyone who thinks we couldn't poach the Brentford manager probably needs a trip to the GP to acquire some Prozac.
And which of those two agreed to join us?
Nobody is saying it's ridiculous to approach managers. But the reality is that the pool of those likely to come right now is probably very limited.
Wagnar apparently, but we mumped up the contract offer.
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Rodgers could walk into a job in the top half of the PL.
Warburton did relatively good job at Sevco, which is a sort of big job. Not sure I'd want him here (rather him than Bruce though, obvs.)
Sure someone said the same about Lennon, how did that work out for him.
Big Nose will never work in the Prem again, thankfully.
The difference between Lennon and Rodgers is that Rodgers has already done it in the Premier League, achieving great success with Swansea. Sevco fans don't seem to rate Warburton, I don't think he'd be a particularly inspiring choice.
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Houghton wouldn't be an option but Rowett may be as per my previous post...and I guess we'd see if those Villa fan rumours about him were true despite his comments about us last season.
Why would he leave Derby??
Oh that old chestnut...why would any employed manager leave their position to come to Villa? If we don't go headhunting an employed manager and only go for someone out of work then we're going to be looking at a very limited number of disappointing options. We may as well stick with Bruce and accept our fate if that is also the defeatist attitude of the club.
There's a massive difference between poaching a manager in the summer and two weeks into a season. To get someone now means a manager willing to absolutely shite on his existing club and that said club rolling over and allowing it to happen. I really can't see many managers being prepared to do this or clubs likely to bend over for us.
You mean like Brian Little in 1994?
So you've gone back 23 years and an ex-legend of the club for you example. That's your argument? Well now I'm convinced Brendan is packing his bags as we speak.
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It's clearly not me that thinks it's ridiculous CD.
That's how I read your post. Were you referencing somebody else? Apologies if I missed it.
Please read responses to my previous posts on the last couple of pages. I actually agree with you.
Sorry. It's difficult to keep up with all the posts!
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Just because you consider it "ridiculous" to approach a manager currently in employment, doesn't make it so.
Especially as we contacted Wagner and Dyche last time.
Anyone who thinks we couldn't poach the Brentford manager probably needs a trip to the GP to acquire some Prozac.
And which of those two agreed to join us?
Nobody is saying it's ridiculous to approach managers. But the reality is that the pool of those likely to come right now is probably very limited.
Wagnar apparently, but we mumped up the contract offer.
Both were happy to come to Villa but we couldn't agree contract terms.
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Fair enough.
@ everyone - please stop with your ridiculous suggestions of any manager that is currently employed...that includes Bielsa, Smith, Rodgers, Warburton, etc;
Please only post suggestions of currently unemployed managers.
Could we edit the thread topic to "Unemployed Manager suggestions" please.
What a crock of s*** we absolutely need to be approaching managers in employment, the vast majority that aren't in jobs are so for a reason. We need to grow a pair and be ruthless this time, like we were with Sir Brian.
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Fair enough.
@ everyone - please stop with your ridiculous suggestions of any manager that is currently employed...that includes Bielsa, Smith, Rodgers, Warburton, etc;
Please only post suggestions of currently unemployed managers.
Could we edit the thread topic to "Unemployed Manager suggestions" please.
What a crock of s*** we absolutely need to be approaching managers in employment, the vast majority that aren't in jobs are so for a reason. We need to grow a pair and be ruthless this time, like we were with Sir Brian.
FFS. That's twice now. Please read this post in context...it was blatant sarcasm in response to other replies.
For those that don't think Aston Villa is capable of attracting a manager in employment, and for those of us that do but are interested in who is out of work, then here is a list of currently unemployed managers:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik
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Just because you consider it "ridiculous" to approach a manager currently in employment, doesn't make it so.
Especially as we contacted Wagner and Dyche last time.
Anyone who thinks we couldn't poach the Brentford manager probably needs a trip to the GP to acquire some Prozac.
And which of those two agreed to join us?
Nobody is saying it's ridiculous to approach managers. But the reality is that the pool of those likely to come right now is probably very limited.
Wagnar apparently, but we mumped up the contract offer.
Both were happy to come to Villa but we couldn't agree contract terms.
How do you know this? No idea about Wagner but I'm pretty sure Dyche wouldn't have come.
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Rodgers could walk into a job in the top half of the PL.
Warburton did relatively good job at Sevco, which is a sort of big job. Not sure I'd want him here (rather him than Bruce though, obvs.)
Sure someone said the same about Lennon, how did that work out for him.
Big Nose will never work in the Prem again, thankfully.
The difference between Lennon and Rodgers is that Rodgers has already done it in the Premier League, achieving great success with Swansea. Sevco fans don't seem to rate Warburton, I don't think he'd be a particularly inspiring choice.
What actually did he do in the Prem win Swansea?
Won a cup like TSM did? Maintain Prem status like Lambert did with Norwich?
I would rather have Strachan before big nose.
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Well, he did enough to get offered the Liverpool job.
Just because you have obsession with Celtic, doesn't make him a bad manager.
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Rodgers could walk into a job in the top half of the PL.
Warburton did relatively good job at Sevco, which is a sort of big job. Not sure I'd want him here (rather him than Bruce though, obvs.)
Sure someone said the same about Lennon, how did that work out for him.
Big Nose will never work in the Prem again, thankfully.
The difference between Lennon and Rodgers is that Rodgers has already done it in the Premier League, achieving great success with Swansea. Sevco fans don't seem to rate Warburton, I don't think he'd be a particularly inspiring choice.
What actually did he do in the Prem win Swansea?
Won a cup like TSM did? Maintain Prem status like Lambert did with Norwich?
I would rather have Strachan before big nose.
He did enough to land one of the biggest jobs in English foorball and then the biggest job in Scottish football? And you'd rather have Strachan? You're deluded.
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Just because you consider it "ridiculous" to approach a manager currently in employment, doesn't make it so.
Especially as we contacted Wagner and Dyche last time.
Anyone who thinks we couldn't poach the Brentford manager probably needs a trip to the GP to acquire some Prozac.
And which of those two agreed to join us?
Nobody is saying it's ridiculous to approach managers. But the reality is that the pool of those likely to come right now is probably very limited.
Wagnar apparently, but we mumped up the contract offer.
Is that true that it was that close? He was my choice back then and in hindsight what an error on our part not to get him.
Going from looking at the methods of Wagner to then having Bruce, is like almost nailing Michele Keegan getting her naked, to her changing her mind so instead you fuck Kevin keegan
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I just said I'd prefer Strachan.
And didn't Liverpool also appoint Woy?
I also never said he was a bad manager, just will never manage in the Prem again.
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Yeah, because Hodgson had a largely exemplary management record up to that point.
There is no justification for saying that Strachan could be a better choice than Rodgers so stop being silly.
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Strachan doesn't have a big hooter and stupid celebration, justification on its own me old China.
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and this is why we should of fucked him off after last seasons failure. We have very slim pickings or will be held over a barrel (again).
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Stracham doesn't have a big hooter and stupid celebration, justification on its own me old China.
As I said, stop being silly.
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Strachan doesn't have a big hooter and stupid celebration, justification on its own me old China.
You really are on a wind-up aren't you?!
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I never thought no matter how many pages long this topic would be I would see the word Strachan.
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Have a word with yourselves.
Still think Dean Smith is the one to go for.
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The only thing that puts me off Smith is that we could be doing the managerial version of our former transfer process... ie going for someone who always does well against us. Their record against the other 22 teams wasn't too spectacular.
Still, if he could get our midfield playing anything like their midfield played against us, and get Hogan scoring like he did for them, I'd be happy.
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The only thing that puts me off Smith is that we could be doing the managerial version of our former transfer process... ie going for someone who always does well against us. Their record against the other 22 teams wasn't too spectacular.
Still, if he could get our midfield playing anything like their midfield played against us, and get Hogan scoring like he did for them, I'd be happy.
If we act fast he could bring Jota with him too
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The only thing that puts me off Smith is that we could be doing the managerial version of our former transfer process... ie going for someone who always does well against us. Their record against the other 22 teams wasn't too spectacular.
Still, if he could get our midfield playing anything like their midfield played against us, and get Hogan scoring like he did for them, I'd be happy.
If we act fast he could bring Jota with him too
Yes please!
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The only thing that puts me off Smith is that we could be doing the managerial version of our former transfer process... ie going for someone who always does well against us. Their record against the other 22 teams wasn't too spectacular.
Still, if he could get our midfield playing anything like their midfield played against us, and get Hogan scoring like he did for them, I'd be happy.
I think his appeal runs a bit deeper than that. He did a very good job at Walsall and is doing well at Brentford with limited resources. His teams play decent, attractive football and he also seems to have a decent eye for players, especially those in the lower divisions. There is of course the more claret and blue tinted reason that he is from the area and both him and his family are Villa fans. It would be the absolute dream job for him and we would be getting someone who 'gets' the club and the ambition of the fanbase.
My only concern would be that the job would ruin him and I would hate to see that, as having met him a couple of times he is a very decent bloke. Not sure I could get used to the sight of Richard O'Kelly in the home dugout though!!
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For those that don't think Aston Villa is capable of attracting a manager in employment, and for those of us that do but are interested in who is out of work, then here is a list of currently unemployed managers:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik
I see Quim is on the list, he would fit in perfectly with Gabby, Richards and co.
On a more sensible note there are soe pretty good coaches on the list.
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The only thing that puts me off Smith is that we could be doing the managerial version of our former transfer process... ie going for someone who always does well against us. Their record against the other 22 teams wasn't too spectacular.
Still, if he could get our midfield playing anything like their midfield played against us, and get Hogan scoring like he did for them, I'd be happy.
I sure would, but I wonder if you're right. Not only because of the 'good against us' fallacy, but also the lethal 'he's Villa isn't he' fallacy. As you say, lots of teams fucked us up last season.
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Have a word with yourselves.
Still think Dean Smith is the one to go for.
So a complete 180 on how Bruce is the one, and any talk of him leaving is silly?
Didn't take long.
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For those that don't think Aston Villa is capable of attracting a manager in employment, and for those of us that do but are interested in who is out of work, then here is a list of currently unemployed managers:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik
I see Quim is on the list, he would fit in perfectly with Gabby, Richards and co.
On a more sensible note there are soe pretty good coaches on the list.
Tuchel is on that list as well. Pipe dream I'm guessing.
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For those that don't think Aston Villa is capable of attracting a manager in employment, and for those of us that do but are interested in who is out of work, then here is a list of currently unemployed managers:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik
I see Quim is on the list, he would fit in perfectly with Gabby, Richards and co.
On a more sensible note there are soe pretty good coaches on the list.
Tuchel is on that list as well. Pipe dream I'm guessing.
Sousa isn't bad either.
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I think there are two options. (if and when Steve decided to leave)
1. Break the bank and go after someone like Tuchel. Risk the wrath of FFP violation.
2. Stop all this nonsense about getting back in to PL PDQ and give the job to some hard headed young coach to rebuild the Villa from roots upwards however long it takes to get back up to top level.
There is no point in F ing about with Allardyce, Pardew etc etc and keep repeating the recent mistakes.
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I think there are two options. (if and when Steve decided to leave)
1. Break the bank and go after someone like Tuchel. Risk the wrath of FFP violation.
2. Stop all this nonsense about getting back in to PL PDQ and give the job to some hard headed young coach to rebuild the Villa from roots upwards however long it takes to get back up to top level.
There is no point in F ing about with Allardyce, Pardew etc etc and keep repeating the recent mistakes.
I think we've probably got one more shot at option number 1. before we all have to accept option number 2. if it goes wrong.
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I think there are two options. (if and when Steve decided to leave)
1. Break the bank and go after someone like Tuchel. Risk the wrath of FFP violation.
2. Stop all this nonsense about getting back in to PL PDQ and give the job to some hard headed young coach to rebuild the Villa from roots upwards however long it takes to get back up to top level.
There is no point in F ing about with Allardyce, Pardew etc etc and keep repeating the recent mistakes.
Excellent post. Your ideas have my backing, Aftab
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I worry that we don't exactly prove wrong the people saying that we as a club are deluded and overdemanding by talking about getting Thomas Tuchel. I mean, come on guys.
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I worry that we don't exactly prove wrong the people saying that we as a club are deluded and overdemanding by talking about getting Thomas Tuchel. I mean, come on guys.
Benitez ended up at Newcasltle, De Boer at Palace (albeit with PL money) I don't see what is deluded about it.
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I won't say deluded but we're 23rd in Division 2 and screwed by FFP. Benitez, de Boer etc were joining clubs in very different situations.
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Who is Tuchel? I ask both to demonstrate just how little notice I take of football outside B6, and to see if you lot are getting your heads turned by a bit of foreign totty. I remember a lot of people making out Garde was the next Herbert Chapman* when his record suggested no such thing.
(*Yes, that is an exaggeration for my own amusement.)
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Were we in the PL, maybe, just maybe. But Benitez did not join Newcastle in the Championship (and in any case is rather odd and has all sorts of noble ideas about connecting with the fans etc). De Boer similarly wouldn't be near Palace were they in this division. I'm normally the one saying 'aim higher' when people suggest Allardyce or Colin Wanker, but there are limits. Tuchel might end up at Barca or Juve. He's not in our league.
Just to say - I don't think the fans are 'deluded', just that people who say we are get ammo from something like this.
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I worry that we don't exactly prove wrong the people saying that we as a club are deluded and overdemanding by talking about getting Thomas Tuchel. I mean, come on guys.
Benitez ended up at Newcasltle, De Boer at Palace (albeit with PL money) I don't see what is deluded about it.
As I've mentioned before, he's recently turned down Southampton and is looking for a European club in the CL.
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1. Break the bank and go after someone like Tuchel. Risk the wrath of FFP violation.
What is the realistic risk of an FFP violation and would it be worth taking to bring in the right manager and/or players?
If it's a fine then the club should take the hit if we would have a better chance of getting promotion, however a points deduction would need to be more carefully assessed. As long as they don't enforce an overly harsh point deduction or refuse promotion, then it may well be a risk worth taking?
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For those that don't think Aston Villa is capable of attracting a manager in employment, and for those of us that do but are interested in who is out of work, then here is a list of currently unemployed managers:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik
I see Quim is on the list, he would fit in perfectly with Gabby, Richards and co.
On a more sensible note there are soe pretty good coaches on the list.
I am shocked that Tony Adams is unemployed after all he is a born winner.
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1. Break the bank and go after someone like Tuchel. Risk the wrath of FFP violation.
What is the realistic risk of an FFP violation and would it be worth taking to bring in the right manager and/or players?
If it's a fine then the club should take the hit if we would have a better chance of getting promotion, however a points deduction would need to be more carefully assessed. As long as they don't enforce an overly harsh point deduction or refuse promotion, then it may well be a risk worth taking?
It's pretty much anything. Rules changed recently so before it was just a fine, now it can be points deductions, denied promotion etc.
http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php
Relevant bits regarding punishments
Crucially, this harmonisation of the rules comes with the blessing of the Premier League - so we shouldn’t see any repeat of the stand-offs that arose (and are still ongoing) with QPR and Leicester. Previously, the Premier League bosses refused to help the Football League collect the ‘Fair Play Tax’ fines for clubs that overspent but won promotion – this lack of support significantly undermined the Football League and severely impacted on the effectiveness of the Football League punishments.
Any punishment for breach of the rules will be determined by an independent panel (the ‘Fair Play Panel’).
But what are the potential punishments? Previously the Football League has only been able to either; fine promoted clubs (a fine the Premier League didn’t help them collect), or impose a transfer embargo for historic overspending (which always like a stable-door/horse scenario). With this change, a wide range of punishments are now available. Nothing is off the table; the Football League are now able to impose a points deduction during the current season, or demote a club from an automatic promotion position into the play-offs (or out of the play-offs altogether). Transfer embargoes are also available (with the earliest one potentially applying during the Summer 2017 Transfer window.
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So basically the FA would make any punishment they see fit as they go along? Probably not worth risking then giving they have a tendency to be harsh on us.
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Tell them to fuck off. If they deduct points, sue the arse off them. No court in the land is going to justify a body that, effectively, bans a company from investing money.
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I worry that we don't exactly prove wrong the people saying that we as a club are deluded and overdemanding by talking about getting Thomas Tuchel. I mean, come on guys.
As I said - a pipe dream. There was probably a time not too long ago when we could have got someone of that calibre, but wasn't to be.
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It's still pretty galling that when we had just finished ninth in the richest league in the World, and could probably have selected from a list of world-class potential appointees had we shown sufficient ambition, that we ended up with McLeish.
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It was very simple.
Cut the wage bill, maintain prem status, limited funds.
Lerner had bitten off more than he could chew and TSM was the puppet of a terrible but fiscally driven ownership that knew they were not in this now for the long run.
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Who is Tuchel? I ask both to demonstrate just how little notice I take of football outside B6, and to see if you lot are getting your heads turned by a bit of foreign totty. I remember a lot of people making out Garde was the next Herbert Chapman* when his record suggested no such thing.
(*Yes, that is an exaggeration for my own amusement.)
The last Borussia Dortmund manager.
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Thank you. Assume he was in charge when the bus was attacked? Was he any good?
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I think that we now can acknowledge that "knowing the championship" is just as a good qualification as not knowing the championship - they all give us f... all
What we need is someone who can make some players play football - not some trickery of the championship. The level of football is much closer to the EPL than it is different. The biggest difference is the frequency of the games.
Get a manager that can get them to play FOOTBALL - passing, attacking, defending. Hoffenheim have a 30 year old that ended in 4th in Germany and play great football. He could speak chinese, portuguese or whatever, as long as he also speaks English.
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So. If we overspend they could ban us from going up?.. Well, sack him, replace with an upto date manager, pay compensation to Calderwood and co, invest properly and try and get promotion because the way were doing it now is going so well.
Take our chances in court!
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Thank you. Assume he was in charge when the bus was attacked? Was he any good?
Yeah he's a very attack minded coach. Tipped to be the next Arsenal manager at one point before Wenger signed his extension. But no hope of coming here, to big a name now.
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Why not get Sir Brian in on an interim basis until the new person can start (eg if with another club at the moment)? There's no reason for Bruce to stay at the club.
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If we appoint a deceased manager it'll be the final, conclusive, evidence that the Board have lost the plot.
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I don't think the right manager would need to buy many more players, indeed maybe any. I think this squad is good enough for a manager with the right ethos to get something out of.
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Just about any decent manager is going to expect a few quid to play with.
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For all the romantic ideas of Tuchel etc, I think it will be Moyes or Allardyce.
Moyes seems to be a busted flush. I don't like Alardyce and never wanted to see him as Villa manager, but he is tactically astute and I think he would probably do a decent job.
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Just about any decent manager is going to expect a few quid to play with.
I've got a couple of shillings I don't mind donating for the right man
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With two weeks to go In the window? Have a day off.
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Alardyce, Pearson, Moyes, Pardew
FB tells me they are the favourites
fuck me shoot me now
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I think that we now can acknowledge that "knowing the championship" is just as a good qualification as not knowing the championship - they all give us f... all
What we need is someone who can make some players play football - not some trickery of the championship. The level of football is much closer to the EPL than it is different. The biggest difference is the frequency of the games.
Get a manager that can get them to play FOOTBALL - passing, attacking, defending. Hoffenheim have a 30 year old that ended in 4th in Germany and play great football. He could speak chinese, portuguese or whatever, as long as he also speaks English.
For every Wagner or Jokanovic, there are the likes of Solbakken, Zenga and Pepe Mel though. It is a risk, but I think we're fast approaching the place where any option we have got left is going to be a risk.
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If anyone at the club had any knowledge of world football then there has to be another Wenger managing in the likes of Japan, Pochettino at Espanyol or a Ralph Hasenhüttl at RB Leipzig that we can convince this is the place to be.
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With two weeks to go In the window? Have a day off.
Are you capable of responding in a non-confrontational manner?
Why would having two weeks left of the transfer window prevent us signing players?
Roy Keane joined Sunderland on 28th August, in similar circumstances to the ones in which we find ourselves, and signed five players.
They won the league.
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And who were those players and how much was spent on them during those three hectic days?
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I don't care. You suggested that we couldn't sign anyone, you've been proven to be talking rubbish. As usual.
Now settle.
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And who were those players and how much was spent on them during those three hectic days?
Link (http://www.google.com)
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If you don't care why google or not utilise your profound knowledge.
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Because I couldn't be arsed. I've already proven you incorrect.
Now care to explain again why we couldn't possibly appoint anyone employed in the top two divisions, but we should go for Dean Smith?
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For all the romantic ideas of Tuchel etc, I think it will be Moyes or Allardyce.
Moyes seems to be a busted flush. I don't like Alardyce and never wanted to see him as Villa manager, but he is tactically astute and I think he would probably do a decent job.
Allardyce could probably still get a gig in the Premier League I would have thought so he might be holding out to see what comes up in a couple of months. I think Moyes, Pardew and Pearson have burnt their bridges at that level and will be looking at their next job being Championship level.
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For all the romantic ideas of Tuchel etc, I think it will be Moyes or Allardyce.
Moyes seems to be a busted flush. I don't like Alardyce and never wanted to see him as Villa manager, but he is tactically astute and I think he would probably do a decent job.
Allardyce could probably still get a gig in the Premier League I would have thought so he might be holding out to see what comes up in a couple of months. I think Moyes, Pardew and Pearson have burnt their bridges at that level and will be looking at their next job being Championship level.
Allardyce retired from club football.
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This is hard work.
I've clearly stated a current employed manager in the top two leagues isn't going to join us, I would personally take Dean Smith as the most likely option if I am wrong.
Now say that back to me so I know you understand.
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Because I couldn't be arsed. I've already proven you incorrect.
Now care to explain again why we couldn't possibly appoint anyone employed in the top two divisions, but we should go for Dean Smith?
I don't think he's been entirely proven incorrect. Whether they talked to us last season or not they didn't come and I don't think Dyche or Wagner would contemplate us now. We are a slightly different prospect now with another year of failure under our belt and another experienced manager having failed. I also think 3 months into the season is a slightly easier time to get your head round jumping ship than two weeks.
We may get someone like Dean Smith, but personally I'd be very surprised if we could attract anyone from the PL or the more high profile managers in the Championship right now.
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You've moved the goalposts.
Thought you might.
Care to explain why we talked to Dyche and Wagner last season, if talking to a manager in employment is so difficult?
Edit: Reply to AV5Nobs
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All we did is "talk" if we are to believe you and The Sun.
Did they arrive, no.
Talking is bullshit, we could phone Pep and have a chat but he would tell us to do one.
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I don't think the right manager would need to buy many more players, indeed maybe any. I think this squad is good enough for a manager with the right ethos to get something out of.
I don't and I think a lot of people are fooled into believing this.
There is no semblance of an effective midfield and only one player that scores goals regularly.
The defense seems to have got worse and older.
It's the god awful signings that have done for Bruce as much as his very limited tactical ability.
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This is hard work.
I've clearly stated a current employed manager in the top two leagues isn't going to join us, I would personally take Dean Smith as the most likely option if I am wrong.
Now say that back to me so I know you understand.
We all understand, understand very well.
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All we did is "talk" if we are to believe you and The Sun.
Did they arrive, no.
Talking is bullshit, we could phone Pep and have a chat but he would tell us to do one.
He probably wouldn't enter complex contract negotiations though, because he wouldn't be interested in giving up his current job to manage Villa. Unlike Dyche and Wagner, who both did and were.
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I don't think the right manager would need to buy many more players, indeed maybe any. I think this squad is good enough for a manager with the right ethos to get something out of.
I don't and I think a lot of people are fooled into believing this.
There is no semblance of an effective midfield and only one player that scores goals regularly.
The defense seems to have got worse and older.
It's the god awful signings that have done for Bruce as much as his very limited tactical ability.
I think it's impossible to tell while we have a guy whose tactics consist largely of bypassing the midfield by lumping the ball forward to a 5'9'' striker. You may well be right, but I don't think it's fair to say that yet.
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Did they join us, no.
End of point.
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Did they join us, no.
End of point.
Not really, your point is that no manager in the top two divisions would consider joining us. Two managers did.
Your "point", as usual, was shite.
Still, it's what we've come to expect from someone who still thought Steve Bruce would be the new Ron Saunders as recently as a week ago.
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You are who you sign and to this day our best players who resemble anything like decent footballers are Kodjia and Chester...both Di Matteos signings.
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Did they join us, no.
End of point.
Not really, your point is that no manager in the top two divisions would consider joining us. Two managers did.
Your "point", as usual, was shite.
Still, it's what we've come to expect from someone who still thought Steve Bruce would be the new Ron Saunders as recently as a week ago.
Oh dear bullyslittlekids,
Where did I say consider? Please quote me.
You've lost the plot.
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Did they join us, no.
End of point.
Not really, your point is that no manager in the top two divisions would consider joining us. Two managers did.
Your "point", as usual, was shite.
Still, it's what we've come to expect from someone who still thought Steve Bruce would be the new Ron Saunders as recently as a week ago.
Quote on where i even alluded to this?
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This is so fuckin' tedious
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Did they join us, no.
End of point.
Not really, your point is that no manager in the top two divisions would consider joining us. Two managers did.
Your "point", as usual, was shite.
Still, it's what we've come to expect from someone who still thought Steve Bruce would be the new Ron Saunders as recently as a week ago.
Oh dear bullyslittlekids,
Where did I say consider? Please quote me.
You've lost the plot.
It's not complicated, AVNob. If someone would consider joining us, obviously we could appoint someone. Otherwise why would they consider it?
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Ok I'm bored now.
My head hurts.
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Ok I'm bored now.
My head hurts.
Reading your posts will do that.
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Ok I'm bored now.
My head hurts.
Beano crossword?
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I'd recommend, yet again, you both pack it in. Getting sick of asking.
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I think Dean Smith as no 1 and Mellberg as no 2 should be ideal option.
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Mellberg as number 1 would not be the end of the world.
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Can someone clever do a poll of who has been suggested so far
Just in case the club actually do look at this site ;)6
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Can do.
What suggestions have we had?
I can think of the following being mentioned seriously/semi-seriously. Let me know if there are any I've missed and I'll get them added:
Bielsa
Rodgers
Terry
Mellberg
Smith
Stam
Warburton
Warnock
Sánchez Flores
Allardyce
Moyes
Pearson
Dyche
Wagner
Jokanovic
Puel
Pardew
Prandelli
McLaren
Ads
Tuchel
Quim (!)
Any more?
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Fulham bloke.
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Moyes, Pardew, Jokanovic, Fat Sam.
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Okay I'll give it five minutes in case anyone else submits a name I've forgotten, then start the poll.
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If you come up with a proper list I can add a poll to this thread rather than have 2 threads covering the same thing.
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Good idea. I think that list was fairly extensive. Maybe add Prandelli? He normally gets a mention.
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Can do.
What suggestions have we had?
I can think of the following being mentioned seriously/semi-seriously. Let me know if there are any I've missed and I'll get them added:
Bielsa
Rodgers
Terry
Mellberg
Smith
Stam
Warburton
Warnock
Sánchez Flores
Allardyce
Moyes
Pearson
Dyche
Wagner
Jokanovic
Puel
Pardew
Prandelli
Any more?
Ads.
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I've added him. Not sure what the limit on poll options is? Oh, I'll add McLaren too. Can't seem him being too popular, mind.
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JT
Not my choice but a candidate.
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Anybody on less than 10% to be cut every day so we can cut it down to come to an H&V consensus.
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He's on my list. Again, not my choice.
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Anybody on less than 10% to be cut every day so we can cut it down to come to an H&V consensus.
You'll be banned from the Tory Party if you keep endorsing radical electoral reform like that!
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I see Fulham want to sign Joe Bennett.
Imagine Jokanovic is being scrubbed off the shortlist for those posters who think buying one of our cast offs means they're a rubbish manager.
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Tuchel, Quim and Sven
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Anybody on less than 10% to be cut every day so we can cut it down to come to an H&V consensus.
You'll be banned from the Tory Party if you keep endorsing radical electoral reform like that!
Elections are a bourgeois luxury.
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Come up with a list you want and then give me a nudge and i'll add a poll. Try and not have it too OTT with names if possible :)
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Tuchel, Quim and Sven
I don't think anyone has seriously suggested Sven, have they? I don't know who Quim is.
I had fun Googling it, though.
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And do you want the vote to be on who you want, or who you think it will be?
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He's on my list. Again, not my choice.
Oh yeh, sorry.
Bono.
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Rodgers could walk into a job in the top half of the PL.
Warburton did relatively good job at Sevco, which is a sort of big job. Not sure I'd want him here (rather him than Bruce though, obvs.)
Sure someone said the same about Lennon, how did that work out for him.
Big Nose will never work in the Prem again, thankfully.
The difference between Lennon and Rodgers is that Rodgers has already done it in the Premier League, achieving great success with Swansea. Sevco fans don't seem to rate Warburton, I don't think he'd be a particularly inspiring choice.
We had this debate a few months back but Rangers fans seemed to expect to challenge Celtic after four years away which was an incredibly deluded view and I see they were losing to Hibs at the weekend so another season of them 30-40 points off Celtic I reckon.
Warburton would be a good pick up imo. He actually got Brentford into the top 6 which Dean Smith has yet to do.
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Right. Final list below. Sorry, Ads.
Can do.
What suggestions have we had?
I can think of the following being mentioned seriously/semi-seriously. Let me know if there are any I've missed and I'll get them added:
Bielsa
Rodgers
Terry
Mellberg
Smith
Stam
Warburton
Warnock
Sánchez Flores
Allardyce
Moyes
Pearson
Dyche
Wagner
Jokanovic
Puel
Pardew
Prandelli
McLaren
Ads
Tuchel
Quim (!)
Any more?
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And do you want the vote to be on who you want, or who you think it will be?
Who you want, please.
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He's on my list. Again, not my choice.
Oh yeh, sorry.
Bono.
Too far.
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Can we have a who we absolutely don't want poll?
Moyes.
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I'll keep it to a max of 20 so no one gets any Quim.
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If you're keeping tuchel and prandelli then I'd like Cocu on there.
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You snooze, you lose, Paul. Maximum twenty.
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Can we have a who we absolutely don't want poll?
Moyes.
Too risky, IMO. What if someone at the club just glances quickly at the forum and runs off to tell Dr Xia that we all want O'Leary back?
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Can we have a who we absolutely don't want poll?
Moyes.
Too risky, IMO. What if someone at the club just glances quickly at the forum and runs off to tell Dr Xia that we all want O'Leary back?
Sucks teeth, Dol or Bruce, tough call.
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Ta da! :) :P
21 of the very best!
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Make it 22 as I missed adding Dean Smith! If anyone wants to change their vote to him, click "Remove vote" and then you can vote again.
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Anybody on less than 10% to be cut every day so we can cut it down to come to an H&V consensus.
You'll be banned from the Tory Party if you keep endorsing radical electoral reform like that!
Yeah but this is important.
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Sucks teeth, Dol or Bruce, tough call.
DOL actually had us playing well for a while, and at a higher level. Plus he made some OK signings like Bouma and Laursen. Bruce is less annoying but not as good a manager. Although to be fair they both suck.
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bumped into a good manager today while shopping in Selfridges ( the primark bit ) in Brum
should have gone and got him instead of Bruce
Craig Shakespeare
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bumped into a good manager today while shopping in Selfridges ( the primark bit ) in Brum
should have gone and got him instead of Bruce
Craig Shakespeare
Track record as a manager?
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Is this a fantasy vote or a realism vote?
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Can we have a who we absolutely don't want poll?
Moyes.
Schteve Mclaren would get my vote for who I would like least to be our next manager. Possibly The worst manager in the history of the universe.
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Realistic. Which is why i'm an option.
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bumped into a good manager today while shopping in Selfridges ( the primark bit ) in Brum
should have gone and got him instead of Bruce
Craig Shakespeare
Track record as a manager?
100% baggies :)
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There are two Sean Dyche options.
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Where's Dr Jo?
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Too many in jobs to consider us.
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Some of the options are completely unrealistic, but I like that. It shows the direction fans want. I proudly tagged Bielsa even though I know we cant get him, but thats the KIND of manager I want.
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There are two Sean Dyche options.
Dunno what you mean guv.
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There are two Sean Dyche options.
Dunno what you mean guv.
Option 1 we appoint him.
Option 2 we don't.
Obvs.
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So as that explains how I missed Dean Smith by adding Sean Dyce twice, Phillip Cocu is now an option for Paul!
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There isn't a football manager on the planet capable of bossing Terry, Richards and Gabby. Not how I imagine they strut around BMH anyway. Can we add Don Vito Corleone?
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So as that explains how I missed Dean Smith by adding Sean Dyce twice, Phillip Cocu is now an option for Paul!
Thank you sir, now voted.
I think he's unlikely but he's a more reasonable fantasy option because there's every chance he could be tempted by a good offer, I'm not sure if we can provide that though.
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As well as the current fetish for Dortmund assistants who want the main job, appointing a Portuguese manager/ head coach now seems to be more of a thing in British football.
Rudy Can't Fail might be better placed than most to answer this one, but who over there has been overlooked and might be vaguely realistic?
Only one I know anything about is Paulo Sousa, who was let go by Fiorentina in June. Had an indifferent spell in England at the start of his managerial career, but looks like he has improved since then.
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Pep Clotet,the Spaniard in charge of Oxford,who worked with Garry Monk at Swansea ,or Uwe Rosler,now in charge of Fleetwood ,who adopts a pressing game similar to Klopp's.
Either would be gettable and a big upgrade on Bruce if the Fulham boss was unavailable.
Yes,they are from lower divisions but they have both had experience of the top division in England.Rosler as a player at Man City.
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Pep Clotet,the Spaniard in charge of Oxford,who worked with Garry Monk at Swansea ,or Uwe Rosler,now in charge of Fleetwood ,who adopts a pressing game similar to Klopp's.
Either would be gettable and a big upgrade on Bruce if the Fulham boss was unavailable.
Yes,they are from lower divisions but they have both had experience of the top division in England.Rosler as a player at Man City.
Riskier did well at Brentford, but then did poorly at both Wigan and Leeds.
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Rosler got Fleetwood to 4th in League 1 last year,a remarkable achievement.He was unsuccesful at Leeds but was only given a few months there and until Monk arrived ,no manager had much joy there and telling that Monk jumped ship at the end of the season.
He got Wigan to the play offs in his first season but experienced problems the next year and was quickly got rid of and likewise Wigan have proved a difficult case to turn round.
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There are very few British or Irish coaches I would welcome, due to the fact most of them are either very unproven or are "proper football men" dinosaurs with little clue about modern tactics and game management. Sean Dyche ? signed Driftwood for £5m, nuff said, clearly clueless. Exceptions for me are Eddie Howe, and maybe Chris Hughton. Otherwise I'd always prefer someone who has shown some pedigree in the more tactically based Spanish or Italian leagues.
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Can we have a who we absolutely don't want poll?
Moyes.
Schteve Mclaren would get my vote for who I would like least to be our next manager. Possibly The worst manager in the history of the universe.
I would like to add criteria that automatically preclude a candidate.
"Safe pair of hands"
"Proven at this level"
"No nonsense/old school"
"Villa is by far the biggest club he has managed"
"Knows how English football works"
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Can we have a who we absolutely don't want poll?
Moyes.
Schteve Mclaren would get my vote for who I would like least to be our next manager. Possibly The worst manager in the history of the universe.
I would like to add criteria that automatically preclude a candidate.
"Safe pair of hands"
"Proven at this level"
"No nonsense/old school"
"Villa is by far the biggest club he has managed"
"Knows how English football works"
Also, "still lives in the area"
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Left field suggestion would be someone like Michael Laudrup.
Has experience of the English game and did fine at Swansea although his agent behind the scene was causing issues with their board so that played a bit part in him leaving when he did.
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There are very few British or Irish coaches I would welcome, due to the fact most of them are either very unproven or are "proper football men" dinosaurs with little clue about modern tactics and game management. Sean Dyche ? signed Driftwood for £5m, nuff said, clearly clueless. Exceptions for me are Eddie Howe, and maybe Chris Hughton. Otherwise I'd always prefer someone who has shown some pedigree in the more tactically based Spanish or Italian leagues.
Had forgotten about Howe. I'd like him, please.
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Chris Hughton is exactly like Steve Bruce in the premier league.
Good in the championship and a very nice man of course.
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Decent bit on Talksport earlier about a Simon Grayson. Obviously not available now, but one who's name has come up at times in the past. They were saying what a good fit they think he will be for Sunderland after doing a decent job at Preston.
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Decent bit on Talksport earlier about a Simon Grayson. Obviously not available now, but one who's name has come up at times in the past. They were saying what a good fit they think he will be for Sunderland after doing a decent job at Preston.
They said the same about Bruce here though.
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Can we have a who we absolutely don't want poll?
Moyes.
Schteve Mclaren would get my vote for who I would like least to be our next manager. Possibly The worst manager in the history of the universe.
I would like to add criteria that automatically preclude a candidate.
"Safe pair of hands"
"Proven at this level"
"No nonsense/old school"
"Villa is by far the biggest club he has managed"
"Knows how English football works"
Also, "still lives in the area"
*shudder*
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"Has a letter of recommendation from Sir Alex Ferguson"
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Shaxxxed K Brady
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With Round and Wyness you know it will be Moyes.
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It's Dean Smith for me. I think he would have us playing football again and I would like us to be the 1st club that he has managed to promotion. I am fed up with so-called managers with "proven track records at this level"
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Pep Clotet,the Spaniard in charge of Oxford,who worked with Garry Monk at Swansea ,or Uwe Rosler,now in charge of Fleetwood ,who adopts a pressing game similar to Klopp's.
Either would be gettable and a big upgrade on Bruce if the Fulham boss was unavailable.
Yes,they are from lower divisions but they have both had experience of the top division in England.Rosler as a player at Man City.
I'm not sure our players are suited to a pressing game. Hogan, Lansbury, Whelan, Jedinak, Terry are all very slow.
The replacement options being suggested are very underwhelming. I'd be tempted to give Bruce a bit more time to be honest if the alternative is Alan Pardew.
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Karanka for me, if we're just sticking to lads who aren't in a job currently.
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Karanka would have been a good option in the poll 😯
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I've voted for Mellberg. We've all had enough of the same old merry-go-round of faces and losers. Let's have a breath of fresh air at the club. His current Brommapojkarna side are top of the table with a few games to play.
He'd be cheaper to poach and more realistic than some of the names on the list and would command massive fan support.
Also gaining experience by managing a lower league club in England will stand him in good stead as our Premier League manager in the (hopefully) near future.
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I've voted for Mellberg. We've all had enough of the same old merry-go-round of faces and losers. Let's have a breath of fresh air at the club. His current Brommapojkarna side are top of the table with a few games to play.
He'd be cheaper to poach and more realistic than some of the names on the list and would command massive fan support.
Also gaining experience by managing a lower league club in England will stand him in good stead as our Premier League manager in the (hopefully) near future.
There's no room for sentimentality at this stage. Mellberg needs to prove himself a bit more elsewhere.
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Decent bit on Talksport earlier about a Simon Grayson. Obviously not available now, but one who's name has come up at times in the past. They were saying what a good fit they think he will be for Sunderland after doing a decent job at Preston.
They said the same about Bruce here though.
To be fair, many people thought Bruce was the right man at the time. Will be interesting to see how Grayson gets on at Sunderland after doing a decent job at a few clubs at this level, but he has already got a couple of wins at the start of the season.
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It's not sentimentality, many top managers have stepped up to a higher level and proved themselves capable. We are not a top-level club at the moment, whatever we do now will be seen by some as a gamble.
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Karanka would have been a good option in the poll 😯
He has a reputation for being rather dull and pragmatic. Our defence was already okay last year, we need someone to add attacking menace. Wouldn't be my choice.
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So, going by the poll, a return for the legendary Ads has been ruled out
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when people say 'who' 'who can we get who would come to us' it makes it sound like there is no options
but just looking at our poll above there is only 6 names I would not want, any of the other dozen names or so would be fine for me
obviously not all are getable but then there are loads more we don't know about dotted all over Europe and the world
quite encouraging really,
of course Wyness probably only sees about 4 of those names which is worrying
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He asked for too much money.
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I voted for Warnock, I know he can be an absolute nob but he gets results wherever he goes and with far less money to spend than he would at most clubs. With 7 promotions and more recently how he turned around a shit Rotherham side cast adrift at the bottom of the Champioship in a short space of time to safety was a minor miracle.
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when people say 'who' 'who can we get who would come to us' it makes it sound like there is no options
but just looking at our poll above there is only 6 names I would not want, any of the other dozen names or so would be fine for me
obviously not all are getable but then there are loads more we don't know about dotted all over Europe and the world
quite encouraging really,
of course Wyness probably only sees about 4 of those names which is worrying
Yeah I thought that. There are loads there that I think could improve us. Is it because more managers are available now? Our standards are lower? Or just that so many people could do a better job than Bruce is doing?!
Whichever way it is, you're right, it is very promising.
(We'll end up with Pearson now...)
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I voted for Warnock, I know he can be an absolute nob but he gets results wherever he goes and with far less money to spend than he would at most clubs. With 7 promotions and more recently how he turned around a shit Rotherham side cast adrift at the bottom of the Champioship in a short space of time to safety was a minor miracle.
No thanks. Bruce was seen as having those type of attributes and has failed badly so far. We need a different, fresh approach.
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I wouldn't go for Warnock but prefer him to Bruce as he seems a nastier piece of work. Which is a good attribute in a manager.
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So, going by the poll, a return for the legendary Ads has been ruled out
I'm in the poll, I'm just going by my new Serbian name.
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I wouldn't go for Warnock but prefer him to Bruce as he seems a nastier piece of work. Which is a good attribute in a manager.
From memory, yourself and Chico Hamilton were advocates of Warnock around a year ago. I started to come round to the idea, and I'm now wondering how different things could have been if we got him when he went to Cardiff.
He has that mean streak to him which makes players not want to lose as they'd face his wrath. Bruce is a bit of a soft touch judging by his interviews at times, and although he's had success at this level he's always had money to achieve it. Warnock has done it at places like Rotherham and Cardiff now on tiny budgets, he also started to turn things around at QPR very quickly, and before money started being spent.
I do worry we've kind of missed that boat now though, and need Jokanovic or the next Jokanovic from abroad.
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Yeah, I wanted him last time. Despite the fact that he's done well since, I've gone off him a bit as have got it into my head that we need a fancy foreign type to change the entire ethos of the club. I'd still fancy our chances of promotion with him ten times more than I do under the potatoey incumbent.
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Can we remove Bielsa? As much as he would be amazing he's only just joined Lille and they are building entire training complexes etch for him so it's as likely as Mourinho.
My concern with Smith is thast he's not defensively very astute. Jokanovic seems to have been able to mould good attacking play with decent defensive resilience. Wyness stated before the season started we need 70 to 80 goals this season. That's never, ever going to happen under Bruce. We need to get him out and get someone capable of playing in a style that will achieve that.
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I voted for Warnock, I know he can be an absolute nob but he gets results wherever he goes and with far less money to spend than he would at most clubs. With 7 promotions and more recently how he turned around a shit Rotherham side cast adrift at the bottom of the Champioship in a short space of time to safety was a minor miracle.
No thanks. Bruce was seen as having those type of attributes and has failed badly so far. We need a different, fresh approach.
What type of fresh approach? A foreign manager (Garde) a young English manager with lots to prove (Sherwood)?
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Thomas Tuchel. Fantastic at Mainz05 (my German team) and won the cup with Dortmund. He's a bit highly strung, but he's young (tick), foreign (tick) and I should think hungry (tick). Klopp-lite, if you will.
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It really doesn't matter where they were born. Sherwood wasn't shite because he was English. Garde is not the sole representative of the land of 'Abroad'.
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It really doesn't matter where they were born. Sherwood wasn't shite because he was English. Garde is not the sole representative of the land of 'Abroad'.
I know, I was getting at what the fresh approach is?
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It really doesn't matter where they were born. Sherwood wasn't shite because he was English. Garde is not the sole representative of the land of 'Abroad'.
I know, I was getting at what the fresh approach is?
Appointing a good manager at a time when he might be able to do something would be a start.
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It really doesn't matter where they were born. Sherwood wasn't shite because he was English. Garde is not the sole representative of the land of 'Abroad'.
I know, I was getting at what the fresh approach is?
A fresh approach is not related to the kind of passport its progenitor holds.
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Love how the thread goes from 'let's remove Bielsa, we've got no chance' to 'Thomas Tuchel' - who has just spent 2 years managing Borussia Dortmund.
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Lol yes Tuchel is as likely or unlikely as Bielsa.
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Not really, Tuchel is unemployed whereas Bielsa has just taken a new job a couple of months ago.
I think both are unlikely but they're far from the same.
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Time to whittle the poll down to something a little more realistic.
Sam Allardyce
David Moyes
Nigel Pearson
Dean Smith
PWS
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How come? He's available; it's not like we'd have to prize him away from another club. Villa's a pretty good shout for the first English job for an ambitious young manager, if that's what he wants. It doesn't matter - we'll likely end up with another dullard or lightweight. We go again.
*edit* Like the ones on Jimbo's list.
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Time to whittle the poll down to something a little more realistic.
Sam Allardyce
David Moyes
Nigel Pearson
Dean Smith
PWS
Honestly if that was the options I'd go for PWS at least he's likely to listen to reason and dump c**ts like Gabby and Richards.
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My concern with Smith is thast he's not defensively very astute. Jokanovic seems to have been able to mould good attacking play with decent defensive resilience. Wyness stated before the season started we need 70 to 80 goals this season. That's never, ever going to happen under Bruce. We need to get him out and get someone capable of playing in a style that will achieve that.
Just as a matter of interest, how many goals did the sides that Bruce previously managed score in their promotion seasons? Obviously more goals are nice but its winning games that matters, so is this figure of 70-80 goals realistic? Given that you need to score 46 goals to win all the games 1-0 then I wouldn't be surprised if his previous sides scored more like 50-60 goals.
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Time to whittle the poll down to something a little more realistic.
Sam Allardyce
David Moyes
Nigel Pearson
Dean Smith
PWS
In a division which Aitor Karanka joined, why are Basic Brits from the past pretty much the only 'realistic' options? Why is Sam Allardyce - retired - more 'realistic' than someone from abroad who isn't retired?
We absolutely have to stop going for the same old dull dour old-fashioned outdated 'do a job' dinosaurs in a division where that is so clearly not a guarantee of success anymore, and at a time when the club needs something seriously different.
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Bielsa only manages Lille, which is French for "small club" . We aren't trying to entice the Real Madrid manager. Leave him on the list.
Even if we can't get him, I'd rather the poll reflected the ambitions of the supporters rather than indicating that we are happy yo settle for second best. As we have done for each of our last seven appointments.
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To those saying Tuchel isn't unrealistic, he was linked with the Arsenal job a few months ago.
Yes he's unemployed, does that mean if Wenger had left Arsenal at the end of the season and was now unemployed, he'd be realistic too?
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For what it's worth I think Garde is still the sort of manager we ultimately need. If he had a bit more time and backing from the club in terms of disciplining players and finances, it could have worked. We were just too fucked for him to do anything about.
If the club do go down this route, we'd have to hope the new man could implement his style quickly enough to get us challenging. Sort of asking for a miracle.
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For what it's worth I think Garde is still the sort of manager we ultimately need. If he had a bit more time and backing from the club in terms of disciplining players and finances, it could have worked. We were just too fucked for him to do anything about.
If the club do go down this route, we'd have to hope the new man could implement his style quickly enough to get us challenging. Sort of asking for a miracle.
I agree - no way could he have ever succeeded in those circumstances.
Dean Smith for me
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I seem to remember Brentford playing excellent football. If the club backed him in whatever he wanted to do, I'm sure he'd be a success. Hogan would skip to work, that's for sure.
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Garde is a somewhat brittle personality and does need things around him to work. God knows what Randy said to him about working there but it's quite clear he didn't get that at Villa and couldn't do anything to arrest the decline. The right footballing ideas, but the wrong personality in an impossible and already-ruined season.
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Agreed Monty. It's the footballing ideas that excites me though. I would hope our current board would be much more supportive of a manager like Garde. If his personality was lacking, bring in backroom staff around him to support him. But perhaps that is part of the culture change we need. Professional footballers not ladz and bantz.
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Manager after manager after manager.
Bruce, Di Matteo, Garde, Sherwood, Lambert, McLeish, Houlier all have fell way short of what we hoped for.
MON screwed us over, DOL was a scumbag, SGT was never going to work out a second time round.
Gregory didn't so much fail but even under him we were falling behind the then `Sky 4`.
The club has been going backwards for the entire 21st century.
The day Dwight Yorke left, that was when we were cut off from any hope of being able to truly compete with Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea etc ever ever again.
We may as well give the job to any chancer who will sign a short term contract of 6 months. That way it doesn't cost as much when the inevitable happens.
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Wagner, Stam or Dyche would be nice. Although I think a more realistic shortlist would be Allardyce, Pearson or Warnock. I would go Wagner from the first list or Allardyce from the second.
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My concern with Smith is thast he's not defensively very astute. Jokanovic seems to have been able to mould good attacking play with decent defensive resilience. Wyness stated before the season started we need 70 to 80 goals this season. That's never, ever going to happen under Bruce. We need to get him out and get someone capable of playing in a style that will achieve that.
Just as a matter of interest, how many goals did the sides that Bruce previously managed score in their promotion seasons? Obviously more goals are nice but its winning games that matters, so is this figure of 70-80 goals realistic? Given that you need to score 46 goals to win all the games 1-0 then I wouldn't be surprised if his previous sides scored more like 50-60 goals.
First thing, I don't think you can include the playoffs in this because that quote was about automatic promotion.
On that basis is you start in 2004 (when it became the championship) there have been 26 teams promoted and 6 of them have scored less than 70 goals. So it is possible but it's rare. Bruce is responsible for a couple of those.
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I would like Wagner but I fear he would crumple under the expectation. Huddersfield with all due respect if they had finished mid-table would not have sacked him and would probably have accepted that. We, on the other hand are demanding immediate success. I think the spot we're in we call for the master escape artist - Fat Sam. Don't like him, don't particularly like the style of play, but my god has he performed miracles with a) teams with low morale and also b) teams with players who don't seem to have a plan. Give him a 1 year contract with a £5M bonus for promotion and let him get on with it.
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The poll is massively unrealistic - how many of those managers could we realistically attract in our current state? Dych is managing a stable team in a higher division for goodness sake.
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Someone young....and good-looking.
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My concern with Smith is thast he's not defensively very astute. Jokanovic seems to have been able to mould good attacking play with decent defensive resilience. Wyness stated before the season started we need 70 to 80 goals this season. That's never, ever going to happen under Bruce. We need to get him out and get someone capable of playing in a style that will achieve that.
Just as a matter of interest, how many goals did the sides that Bruce previously managed score in their promotion seasons? Obviously more goals are nice but its winning games that matters, so is this figure of 70-80 goals realistic? Given that you need to score 46 goals to win all the games 1-0 then I wouldn't be surprised if his previous sides scored more like 50-60 goals.
When Hull, with Bruce as manager, last got promoted in 2015-16, via the play-offs, they scored 69 goals and finished 4th. Burnley were champions scoring 72 and M'Boro 2nd scoring just 63 goals. Brighton 3rd scoring 72.
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Someone young....and good-looking.
Me then
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PWS?
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Own up. Who is the one person who said Steve McLaren?
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Cannot see why Allardyce is thought to be a runner. He left Palace, as he said at the time, to retire from managing clubs. Quite clearly he is now demotivated, does not need either the money or the hassle. The loss of the England job has left it's mark and like so many England managers before him he will never be the same again. The pre-England Allardyce as a candidate "yes"; the post-England Allardyce a definite "No". That also goes for any other former England manger that may be mentioned.
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Cannot see why Allardyce is thought to be a runner. He left Palace, as he said at the time, to retire from managing clubs. Quite clearly he is now demotivated, does not need either the money or the hassle. The loss of the England job has left it's mark and like so many England managers before him he will never be the same again. The pre-England Allardyce as a candidate "yes"; the post-England Allardyce a definite "No". That also goes for any other former England manger that may be mentioned.
With every manager appointment in recent years I feel my heart sink just that little bit more. I think it'd drop out my ares if we appointed FatSam TM.
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Time to whittle the poll down to something a little more realistic.
Sam Allardyce
David Moyes
Nigel Pearson
Dean Smith
PWS
Honestly if that was the options I'd go for PWS at least he's likely to listen to reason and dump c**ts like Gabby and Richards.
I'll just threaten them that they'll be watching endless shite horror films if they don't perform. And make sure they know that when I say "do you want to play a game?" it has a totally different meaning.
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Own up. Who is the one person who said Steve McLaren?
Maybe they misread it as Steve McFadden.
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So Steve McLaren made the list, but Aitor Karanka didn't!
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Own up. Who is the one person who said Steve McLaren?
Maybe they misread it as Steve McFadden.
In which case 'team bonding' would involve 'dogging missions'.
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So Steve McLaren made the list, but Aitor Karanka didn't!
I see him on there, dunno what you mean.
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Own up. Who is the one person who said Steve McLaren?
Maybe they misread it as Steve McFadden.
In which case 'team bonding' would involve 'dogging missions'.
Can we add Stan Collymore to the list ?
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Sorry to intrude on private grief.
If the alternatives are Allardyce,Pardew,Moyes,Pearson etc then why bother getting rid of Steve Bruce ? All you’ll get are the same soundbites,platitudes and bullshit but delivered in a different accent. Combined with the same turgid tactics and performances.
As someone once said the definition of insanity is ‘doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results’
This is when Steve Bruce lost all credibility at Stans : A few years ago he said ‘ pound for pound Damien Johnson is the best signing I’ve ever made’ . That’s THE Damien Fkin Johnson !!
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Own up. Who is the one person who said Steve McLaren?
Maybe they misread it as Steve McFadden.
In which case 'team bonding' would involve 'dogging missions'.
Can we add Stan Collymore to the list ?
Paul Jewell likes a bit of extra marital fun with other peoples wive's outdoors on car bonnets. David Pleat probably knows a good car park to go to.
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So Steve McLaren made the list, but Aitor Karanka didn't!
I see him on there, dunno what you mean.
Definitely on there all along ;)
If we can get Jokanovic, he would still be my first choice. If we were picking from unemployed managers, I'd go Karanka.
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They're not the only alternatives though. Although sadly, a lot more likely than some of the names on our poll.
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As we forgot Karanka, if anyone wishes to change their vote to him, or to anyone else, you can click on "Remove vote" and then vote again.
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I would like Wagner but I fear he would crumple under the expectation. Huddersfield with all due respect if they had finished mid-table would not have sacked him and would probably have accepted that. We, on the other hand are demanding immediate success.
I wanted Wagner last season, everything about him screams hard working, modern manager. He may have taken over at Huddersfield when they were 19th and by the end of the season that's exactly where they finished. The big difference was, the fans could see what he was trying to do and last season they bought a record number of season tickets. It was no surprise for me they got promoted. I think he has the potential with the right club to be over time more successful than his mate, Klopp. There will be plenty of clubs after him next summer if as expected, Huddersfield get relegated. If they do, it won't be because of lack of preparation, fight and determination.
I think the spot we're in we call for the master escape artist - Fat Sam. Don't like him, don't particularly like the style of play, but my god has he performed miracles with a) teams with low morale and also b) teams with players who don't seem to have a plan. Give him a 1 year contract with a £5M bonus for promotion and let him get on with it.
I feel dirty saying it but I'm leaning in this direction too. We don't have the luxury to bring in a manager and give them time. It's pretty much promotion or bust. We're in such a financial mess I fear unless we go up this season we're done for. Whether BFS would come out of retirement and manage us until the end of the season, I have no idea but we do need a strong personality, somebody that can remind the players they actually are footballers, somebody that understands tactics and dare I say it, somebody that has a point to prove.
My choice is Jokanović but I think he may be too involved with Fulham now. The other thing is his style is to play with wingers, something we really lack right now. I would hope somebody will tweet Xia and tell him Jokanović is good friends with Terry. It's the kind of thing that would get his attention and hopefully have a word with our Captain. Whoever comes in will need to immediately unite the squad and get them working as one. Jokanović has the advantage of being a manager that can not only get us promoted but prepare us for life back in the PL.
Right now that seems a million miles away.
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at least FS would more or lessguarantee that our death spiral didn't suck us into D1. If Bruce is left in charge much longer I can see us in the same sort of position Blackburn were all of last season
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Someone young....and good-looking.
Not me then
Fixed.
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we have had a number of tired old players coming to Villa and seeing out there days on big wages, we've still got some around now
so why do people think that going that one step even further and actually dragging someone out of retirement means they will be right fired up for the job,
Sams retired for a reason he ought to stay that way,
a final payday with Villa is something he will not be able to turn down knowing his love of money, all the worst reasons ever to appoint him
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Sam would walk to VP because his ego would push him to do it not money. If he came before the window shut I would get on us going up this season too, he is very good at what he does.
Jokanovic has to be the one though. Get him and a couple of fast wingers and let him give us a style. If not him then Dean Smith and have a bit of passion and attacking football.
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Sam would walk to VP because his ego would push him to do it not money. If he came before the window shut I would get on us going up this season too, he is very good at what he does.
Jokanovic has to be the one though. Get him and a couple of fast wingers and let him give us a style. If not him then Dean Smith and have a bit of passion and attacking football.
When he got his lifetime dream job at England it still didn't stop him from wanting to make more money on the sly
because money is Sams God not football
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Are we going overboard on Smith because he is a Villa man?
I ask as I've heard murmurs of Brentford fans saying he has no Plan B, and struggles to close a game out. Their results this season so far back that up, very early days of course for him to improve things, but he's only had one season at this level so far, albeit a pretty good one.
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I didn't realise the reasons BFS retired. I'd guess we can cross him off the list.
We go again.
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Brentford is not a big club. He's doing very well to have them competing and playing as they are.
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I didn't realise the reasons BFS retired. I'd guess we can cross him off the list.
We go again.
He didn't give a reason IIRC.
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I didn't realise the reasons BFS retired. I'd guess we can cross him off the list.
We go again.
He didn't give a reason IIRC.
"I have no ambitions to take another job," Allardyce said in a statement.
"I want to be able to savour life while I am still relatively young, and when I am still relatively healthy enough to do all the things I want to do, like travel, spend more time with my family and grandchildren without the huge pressure that comes with being a football manager.
"This is the right time for me. I simply want to be able to enjoy all the things you cannot really enjoy with the 24/7 demands of managing any football club, let alone one in the Premier League."
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Yeah doesn't sound like someone itching to take a job as placid and relaxed as the Villa.
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I didn't realise the reasons BFS retired. I'd guess we can cross him off the list.
We go again.
He didn't give a reason IIRC.
"I have no ambitions to take another job," Allardyce said in a statement.
"I want to be able to savour life while I am still relatively young, and when I am still relatively healthy enough to do all the things I want to do, like travel, spend more time with my family and grandchildren without the huge pressure that comes with being a football manager.
"This is the right time for me. I simply want to be able to enjoy all the things you cannot really enjoy with the 24/7 demands of managing any football club, let alone one in the Premier League."
Exactly ;)
Still would not surprise me to see him in a dugout again.
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I didn't realise the reasons BFS retired. I'd guess we can cross him off the list.
We go again.
He didn't give a reason IIRC.
"I have no ambitions to take another job," Allardyce said in a statement.
"I want to be able to savour life while I am still relatively young, and when I am still relatively healthy enough to do all the things I want to do, like travel, spend more time with my family and grandchildren without the huge pressure that comes with being a football manager.
"This is the right time for me. I simply want to be able to enjoy all the things you cannot really enjoy with the 24/7 demands of managing any football club, let alone one in the Premier League."
Exactly ;)
Still would not surprise me to see him in a dugout again.
I reckon within a few weeks
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Lol yes Tuchel is as likely or unlikely as Bielsa.
No idea how accurate these wages are but Tuchel wanting a champions league club could just as easily be code for I want champion's league wages, which Villa arguably do pay. Dortmund do not appear on the list whereas Palace (Benfica?), West Ham, Watford and Everton are all in there. The stupid wages paid in the UK also means that you get better value abroad, the difficulty is identifying the right man.
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-paid-football-managers/
It's highly unlikely but it'd be almost negligent not to make enquiries in my opinion.
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Are we going overboard on Smith because he is a Villa man?
I ask as I've heard murmurs of Brentford fans saying he has no Plan B, and struggles to close a game out. Their results this season so far back that up, very early days of course for him to improve things, but he's only had one season at this level so far, albeit a pretty good one.
I'll be honest and say most of the knowledge I have of the above names apart from the obvious ones came from this site
and the same goes for most of the players we sign to
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Playing devils advocate with the Fat Sam thing should he decide to come out of "retirement"...it may not be pretty at times (but not as bad as some ppl would have you believe) but he would probably be the best bet to get us out of this mess and have us in contention for promotion with the current squad. All other likely and realistic candidates would be more of a gamble.
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Brentford is not a big club. He's doing very well to have them competing and playing as they are.
Warburton did better there.
Not against Smith, just providing some context.
I do think we may be overplaying his achievements based on him being One of Us, and the fact that their two best performances of the season both seemed to be against Villa.
They were the best team I saw against us last season. But those performances must have been the exception, based on their so-so final league position.
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Lol yes Tuchel is as likely or unlikely as Bielsa.
No idea how accurate these wages are but Tuchel wanting a champions league club could just as easily be code for I want champion's league wages, which Villa arguably do pay. Dortmund do not appear on the list whereas Palace (Benfica?), West Ham, Watford and Everton are all in there. The stupid wages paid in the UK also means that you get better value abroad, the difficulty is identifying the right man.
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-paid-football-managers/
It's highly unlikely but it'd be almost negligent not to make enquiries in my opinion.
For the price of Ashley Westwood we could have a Top 10 manager (for a season). I'd much rather see us spend money on bringing in the best manager available than signing an at best average player every summer. The only problem now is we appear not to have a pot to piss in.
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Dwight Yorke anyone?
Only joking!!!
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Lol yes Tuchel is as likely or unlikely as Bielsa.
No idea how accurate these wages are but Tuchel wanting a champions league club could just as easily be code for I want champion's league wages, which Villa arguably do pay. Dortmund do not appear on the list whereas Palace (Benfica?), West Ham, Watford and Everton are all in there. The stupid wages paid in the UK also means that you get better value abroad, the difficulty is identifying the right man.
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-paid-football-managers/
It's highly unlikely but it'd be almost negligent not to make enquiries in my opinion.
For the price of Ashley Westwood we could have a Top 10 manager (for a season). I'd much rather see us spend money on bringing in the best manager available than signing an at best average player every summer. The only problem now is we appear not to have a pot to piss in.
The other problem is that if it was that easy everyone would do it.
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Wouldn't think affording top managerial wages would be difficult for us - loaning McCormack somewhere could offset 1.5-2m in wages alone, then there may be a loan fee too...and if Richards goes we'd have a whole lot more than that to play with. Pay what it takes to get a top manager and do it before it's too late.
I'm surprised Smith is so fancied, the job is clearly too big for Bruce with all of his experience, how will Smith cope with the expectation and the intense pressure ? I think he would struggle.
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How many on that poll have had a bigger or more difficult job than this?
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Lol yes Tuchel is as likely or unlikely as Bielsa.
No idea how accurate these wages are but Tuchel wanting a champions league club could just as easily be code for I want champion's league wages, which Villa arguably do pay. Dortmund do not appear on the list whereas Palace (Benfica?), West Ham, Watford and Everton are all in there. The stupid wages paid in the UK also means that you get better value abroad, the difficulty is identifying the right man.
http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-paid-football-managers/
It's highly unlikely but it'd be almost negligent not to make enquiries in my opinion.
For the price of Ashley Westwood we could have a Top 10 manager (for a season). I'd much rather see us spend money on bringing in the best manager available than signing an at best average player every summer. The only problem now is we appear not to have a pot to piss in.
The other problem is that if it was that easy everyone would do it.
Sure but with all the money in the PL now I'm sure more will. We should have done it last summer when we had the money to spend. I remember you telling me the cost of paying off MON. Add to that all the other pay-offs we've made since, I'd imagine we'd be close to breaking into the Top 10 on that list, what with paying two managers at a time.
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What's most surprising with all those names on the list is that a few ppl have actually voted for Steve McLaren, Nigel Pearson, Alan Pardew...and John Terry! The interwebs really is a crazy place!
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Can we get Ads listed please?
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What's most surprising with all those names on the list is that a few ppl have actually voted for Steve McLaren, Nigel Pearson, Alan Pardew...and John Terry! The interwebs really is a crazy place!
Football's a funny old game. Last summer I had people lining up to tell me how lucky we'd be to have David Moyes as our manager. Right now he has one vote on here.
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Well its a a good job there aren't many Twitter or Facebook followers on here otherwise Tim Sherwood would be top of the poll judging by some of the stupid comments I've read on there over the last few months. No wonder this country is in such a mess when these very same ppl are allowed to vote!
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As that Bluenose said a few pages back, if we're seriously considering Sam Allardyce (a retired Sam Allardyce at that) or any of the other of the usual knackered old suspects, then we may as well stick with Bodger Bruce.
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How many on that poll have had a bigger or more difficult job than this?
Rodgers and Moyes. You could make a case for McLaren.
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Look at the roll-call of our previous managers. Who'd be envious of that lot?
Christ, we've had the old timer in Houllier; the up-and-coming in Sherwood (and Lambert); the 'foreign' in Garde; the stable Brit in McLeish (and Bruce). What is left to try?
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'Good'? I don't care about the passport.
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How many on that poll have had a bigger or more difficult job than this?
I count 8, maybe 9 or 10 if I'm being generous.
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Gallardo for me
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How many on that poll have had a bigger or more difficult job than this?
I count 8, maybe 9 or 10 if I'm being generous.
the chances are that we will appoint someone without experience or who has failed in similar circumstances.
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I haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
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the chances are that we will appoint someone without experience or who has failed in similar circumstances.
Sadly, there is a high probability you will be correct given the success rate to date of the people making the decision. I do also wonder what, if anything, Sir Brian is contributing to the executive management team.
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I haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
Peter Shilton?, he could be looking for a gig, if his middle name wasn't Leslie.
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Peter William Sherwood Tim's transgender sister.
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Jeremy Corbyn. Way over achieved despite having a bunch of sniping disrespectful underachieving seenbetterdays subordinates
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I haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
Peterwithesshins?
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Who he?
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Gallardo for me
I imagine he's looking for a change. It must be piss boring winning every week.
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Who he?
A close relative of Peterwithesshin!
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I haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
Peter Shilton?, he could be looking for a gig, if his middle name wasn't Leslie.
[/quotI haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
Peter Shilton?, he could be looking for a gig, if his middle name wasn't Leslie.
I thought it was Tina?
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Who he?
A close relative of Peterwithesshin!
I will always insist it wasn't his shin. But hey ho.
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I haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
Price Waterhouse-Scooper. Private school educated auditor and all round good egg.
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Who he?
A close relative of Peterwithesshin!
I will always insist it wasn't his shin. But hey ho.
Who's shin was it then?
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I haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
The Thinking Man's Ads.
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I haven't heard of half of 'em. Who is PWS?
Price Waterhouse-Scooper. Private school educated auditor and all round good egg.
Not wildly over priced rat catcher?
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He is the man who made Mick McCarthy famous.
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Any chance we can have Rafa, added to the list?
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if Rafa became available he would be my Number 1 choice!
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haven't we been here before with Rafa? He wouldn't take the job then, let alone now.
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Any chance we can have Rafa, added to the list?
Yeah. And Pep, Klopp & Pochettino.
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Why do none of them really inspire me?
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Why do none of them really inspire me?
Because you are Steve Bruce?
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Why do none of them really inspire me?
Need a separate poll for iron etc.
Guardiola
Zidane
Mourinho
Ads
Klopp
Conte
Wenger
Dowie
Merson
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I've gone for "Deano Deano" Smith.
Brentford's football against us last season was superb.
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I've got less votes than Warnock :(
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I've got less votes than Warnock :(
But he doesn't have your looks or money
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I've got less votes than Warnock :(
I've just evened it up for you, I wanted to look at how the poll is going and I am too lazy to think about who I really want.
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Who is actually available in that list (i.e not associated with a club)?
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And now i'm above Warnock, woohoo!
Meet my assistant manager, better than Tactics Tim throwing off his gilet
(http://i.imgur.com/y4IgjYx.gif)
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You're more popular than John Terry. Well done.
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Who voted for Shteve?
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Can we cull the also rans now and take the three on 10% or more and vote again on them.
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And now i'm above Warnock, woohoo!
Meet my assistant manager, better than Tactics Tim throwing off his gilet
(http://i.imgur.com/y4IgjYx.gif)
I am changing my vote. Sorry Bielsa. All aboard the PWS train!
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Voted Rodgers, not that he is a viable option. Would love us to get a good result tomorrow and start to turn it around, we cannot keep changing manager every 6/12 months
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Voted Rodgers, not that he is a viable option. Would love us to get a good result tomorrow and start to turn it around, we cannot keep changing manager every 6/12 months
How about we have a plan and strategy and not pick someone from the carousel of shitness.
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I don't get your point? Rodgers is not, as far as I can see, a viable option right now as I don't think he would leave Celtic for us.
I voted for him as I think he could sort the club out from top to bottom.
I agree if the point you are trying to make is we do not want a Bruce/Big Sam/Warnock appointment, fully agree with that.
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I think he means if we stop appointing shit managers then we won't have to change them so often.
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That's true, although from a tried and tested point of view Bruce should have got us up last season or close to it as he has done it a few times before.
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By the way PWS who is that in the video you posted? 😜
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You're more popular than John Terry. Well done.
John Terry is already bunking off training with the assistant manager. Giggity.
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Apparently this thread of 47 pages is not visible to some posters☹️
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Apparently this thread of 47 pages is not visible to some posters☹️
And your point is?
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And now i'm above Warnock, woohoo!
Meet my assistant manager, better than Tactics Tim throwing off his gilet
(http://i.imgur.com/y4IgjYx.gif)
Ah yes, I remember this thread now.
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But why no Ads in the poll, was a firm favourite once upon a time?
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Due to the England qualifiers, Southgate has been getting a bit of press recently. I'd be delighted with him as manager. He's spent a considerable period studying the game and the dynamic of successful teams which means he seemingly thinks beyond the usual UK manager boundaries (appointing that chap from the All Blacks for example).
He's not likely to give up the England job until pushed but hopefully his reputation is not ruined in the process.
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And now i'm above Warnock, woohoo!
Meet my assistant manager, better than Tactics Tim throwing off his gilet
(http://i.imgur.com/y4IgjYx.gif)
Jesus! I'd have checked this thread long ago if I'd realised this was the calibre of some of the managerial suggestions.
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But why no Ads in the poll, was a firm favourite once upon a time?
He was. But then he was kinda incarnated in Sherwood.
He had his chance. Ftf.
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Kaley Cuoco does not have any UEFA coaching badges so she is out.
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Kaley Cuoco does not have any UEFA coaching badges so she is out.
No she is definitely IN in my book.
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If Bruce does go (and I for one don't think we should make such a move until the end of the season or January at the soonest) then I would like to see Dyche come in. Rodgers could be a good alternative too.
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I don't think Rodgers would touch us with a barge pole. For whatever reason, the evidence of the past decade suggests we're managerial career killers.
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Kaley Cuoco does not have any UEFA coaching badges so she is out.
Badges. Its always the damn badges that hold us back from fine candidates.
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Kaley Cuoco does not have any UEFA coaching badges so she is out.
I have never heard of them and had no idea whether they were male or female, my knowledge of football around the world is so poor somebody could have said they had recently been sacked by Juventus and I would believe them. Has he/she?
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Only 8 more years til the 40 year old thread....
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...I would like to see Dyche come in
No, he might want to sign Westwood
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I'd take this guy
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/sep/01/rafael-benitez-job-offers-newcastle-mike-ashley-west-ham
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Rafa Benitez?
He'll be available soon.
http://www.nufc.com/
(Not that I think he'd jump from one basketcase to another. Or whether the board would want the hassle he brings with him - great manager though he is).
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Saunders, BFR, SGT, Little, Kaley Cuoco...it's a no-brainer. Get her in.
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Rafa wouldn't come to us. No way.
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Kaley Cuoco as no 1 and Jim Parsons (Sheldon Cooper) as No 2
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Thomas Tuchel is on that list I saw the other day he was on Chelsea's radar as next manager
true or not he probably won't be driving up Witton Lane any time soon
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Thomas Tuchel is on that list I saw the other day he was on Chelsea's radar as next manager
true or not he probably won't be driving up Witton Lane any time soon
Of course he won't, I'm one of those who voted for him. :(
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I think Michael O'Neil, the Norn Iron manager would appeal. He's probably very cheap and Im sure there are some door signs left over from the previous O'Neil that could be recycled!
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I think Michael O'Neil, the Norn Iron manager would appeal. He's probably very cheap and Im sure there are some door signs left over from the previous O'Neil that could be recycled!
I'd rather he stayed where he is - flipping the bird to MON
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It is interesting that O'Neil and Coleman don't seem to have been inundated with offers. Probably because they are too British for most of the PL clubs. I would also presume it would take a very big Championship job to tempt them away from their countries.
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It is interesting that O'Neil and Coleman don't seem to have been inundated with offers. Probably because they are too British for most of the PL clubs.
Yeah, first thing that happens in any Premier League interview is they ask for a copy of their passport and any British managers are asked to leave immediately.
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They've both done really well but both would still be a big risk in a very different context
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Because British managers are generally of lower quality than those available in the world market. Premier League clubs are just doing the right thing. They need to hire the best, the best is not British (or Irish etc), currently anyways.
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I'm definitely on the turn
I've just looked at the options list again though
I can't really see a serious candidate there still tho
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I'm definitely on the turn
I've just looked at the options list again though
I can't really see a serious candidate there still tho
The board have to work harder than the Bruces and Moyes of this world.
Hudders found Wagner, Sheff weds found Carvahal, Leeds found Christiansen. I bet they weren't even mentioned on their forums at the time.
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Agreed
But for every one of those there's probably two Daniel Farks etc
And I don't have a huge amount of confidence in the decision making of this board yet
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Agreed
But for every one of those there's probably two Daniel Farks etc
And I don't have a huge amount of confidence in the decision making of this board yet
As bad as they've been, he's still got them above Aston Dinosaur FC.
It's more likely the board get it wrong though, unless it's 3rd time lucky.
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Apart from the obvious ones,Fulham boss and Dean Smith .I did suggest Uwe Rosler ,Fleetwood ,and Clotet at Oxford,I could add Graham Alexander at Scunthorpe.League 1 bosses but only a few places below our position.In front of them I would put Nigel Clough,bound to be relegated at Burton but that's no disgrace,and his team play better football,not difficult ,than Bruce's.
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I must say Dean Smith impressed me today with how he set up his team. Played the ball out of defence into attack all game. Very positive stuff. Is it too early for him? Christ knows if he'd turn into another Graham Turner but Bruce must be shitting himself at the moment because it just isn't good enough.
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I must say Dean Smith impressed me today with how he set up his team. Played the ball out of defence into attack all game. Very positive stuff. Is it too early for him? Christ knows if he'd turn into another Graham Turner but Bruce must be shitting himself at the moment because it just isn't good enough.
Rowett was every bit as good in the game I watched last night. He has senior players that he used intelligently and they did the basics so very well. They took apart a Hull without really having to be special and were so clinical in front of goal. They played Nugent up front on his own with two wide men and midfielders who got into the box and took shots. They scored 5 times, 4 from midfielders, from Curtis Davies who looked imperious alongside Keogh.
Us. Well we look shit.
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Would Dean Smith have enough to manage the inevitable expectation? Great managers have to come from somewhere and time will tell whether Smith has the staying power. One thing I think would be the case under Dean Smith is that players would probably look like they enjoy playing for Aston Villa. If a lifelong Villa fan can't get them enthusiastic for a Saturday afternoon (or a Tuesday night), then they're probably not going to be here for long.
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I must say Dean Smith impressed me today with how he set up his team. Played the ball out of defence into attack all game. Very positive stuff. Is it too early for him? Christ knows if he'd turn into another Graham Turner but Bruce must be shitting himself at the moment because it just isn't good enough.
Rowett was every bit as good in the game I watched last night. He has senior players that he used intelligently and they did the basics so very well. They took apart a Hull without really having to be special and were so clinical in front of goal. They played Nugent up front on his own with two wide men and midfielders who got into the box and took shots. They scored 5 times, 4 from midfielders, from Curtis Davies who looked imperious alongside Keogh.
Us. Well we look shit.
I think whatever happens he's got the month of September and that's it. If we're still struggling I think Xia will pull the trigger. Sadly I think Bruce is on borrowed time. Normally I'd stick up for him but he really doesn't do himself any favours with the negative set up of his teams. I really hate to see one man up front at home. It's negative by default.
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After two former Small Heath managers in McLeish and Bruce we will probably go for third time lucky and appoint Zola.
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I must say Dean Smith impressed me today with how he set up his team. Played the ball out of defence into attack all game. Very positive stuff. Is it too early for him? Christ knows if he'd turn into another Graham Turner but Bruce must be shitting himself at the moment because it just isn't good enough.
Rowett was every bit as good in the game I watched last night. He has senior players that he used intelligently and they did the basics so very well. They took apart a Hull without really having to be special and were so clinical in front of goal. They played Nugent up front on his own with two wide men and midfielders who got into the box and took shots. They scored 5 times, 4 from midfielders, from Curtis Davies who looked imperious alongside Keogh.
Us. Well we look shit.
I think whatever happens he's got the month of September and that's it. If we're still struggling I think Xia will pull the trigger. Sadly I think Bruce is on borrowed time. Normally I'd stick up for him but he really doesn't do himself any favours with the negative set up of his teams. I really hate to see one man up front at home. It's negative by default.
One man up front isn't the problem IMO. It's just that you cannot play that way if the midfield then sits behind the halfway line and doesn't support and attack. Throw in an inept right midfielder and a massively overrated left winger. It doesn't add up to much.
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After two former Small Heath managers in McLeish and Bruce we will probably go for third time lucky and appoint Zola.
It'll be Barry Fry next
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I must say Dean Smith impressed me today with how he set up his team. Played the ball out of defence into attack all game. Very positive stuff. Is it too early for him? Christ knows if he'd turn into another Graham Turner but Bruce must be shitting himself at the moment because it just isn't good enough.
Rowett was every bit as good in the game I watched last night. He has senior players that he used intelligently and they did the basics so very well. They took apart a Hull without really having to be special and were so clinical in front of goal. They played Nugent up front on his own with two wide men and midfielders who got into the box and took shots. They scored 5 times, 4 from midfielders, from Curtis Davies who looked imperious alongside Keogh.
Us. Well we look shit.
I think whatever happens he's got the month of September and that's it. If we're still struggling I think Xia will pull the trigger. Sadly I think Bruce is on borrowed time. Normally I'd stick up for him but he really doesn't do himself any favours with the negative set up of his teams. I really hate to see one man up front at home. It's negative by default.
He's been on borrowed time since May. As much as we all want to see the side click, if we're really honest, it's no real surprise it's not happening. Now we have the problem of trying to find somebody to save our season in bloody September. Like Bruce, we're our own worst enemy.
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I must say Dean Smith impressed me today with how he set up his team. Played the ball out of defence into attack all game. Very positive stuff. Is it too early for him? Christ knows if he'd turn into another Graham Turner but Bruce must be shitting himself at the moment because it just isn't good enough.
Rowett was every bit as good in the game I watched last night. He has senior players that he used intelligently and they did the basics so very well. They took apart a Hull without really having to be special and were so clinical in front of goal. They played Nugent up front on his own with two wide men and midfielders who got into the box and took shots. They scored 5 times, 4 from midfielders, from Curtis Davies who looked imperious alongside Keogh.
Us. Well we look shit.
I think whatever happens he's got the month of September and that's it. If we're still struggling I think Xia will pull the trigger. Sadly I think Bruce is on borrowed time. Normally I'd stick up for him but he really doesn't do himself any favours with the negative set up of his teams. I really hate to see one man up front at home. It's negative by default.
Plenty of sides play one up front at home. That's not the issue I don't think.
We play without any tempo for long periods. We sit off sides and give possession away too easily. The team is in Bruce's image - too often hesitant and cautious. Players in possession not having options - too static and lacking momentum etc etc.
He may as well set the side up to try to out score teams and play on the front foot. At the moment the pressure he's feeling is turning into a slow and inevitable death for him.
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I don't really care who it is, as long as they know how to set up a side to attack and can adapt their tactics when things aren't going their way.
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Dean Smith certainly had us worked out today and considering he has very little at his disposal he nearly came away with 3 points.
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Yep. Dean Smith for me. Villa through and through, sets up to attack, and I reckon would get our lot playing pretty well.
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It might sound very cliche wanting an ex Villa man in Smith or Rowett but both have done so well why not? They might just be the tonic we need.
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It might sound very cliche wanting an ex Villa man in Smith or Rowett but both have done so well why not? They might just be the tonic we need.
Talking of ex Villa men, I take it we won't be adding Simon Grayson to the poll? ;)
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It might sound very cliche wanting an ex Villa man in Smith or Rowett but both have done so well why not? They might just be the tonic we need.
Talking of ex Villa men, I take it we won't be adding Simon Grayson to the poll? ;)
Maybe not but I'd gladly like to be in that place when we finally got Little and everything was good.
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It might sound very cliche wanting an ex Villa man in Smith or Rowett but both have done so well why not? They might just be the tonic we need.
Talking of ex Villa men, I take it we won't be adding Simon Grayson to the poll? ;)
Maybe not but I'd gladly like to be in that place when we finally got Little and everything was good.
We could do worse than getting him back. I know he already is back, but I mean back in the manager's office.
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Jokanovic or Smith
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I am the Lone Ranger with Warburton. He's a decent manager and has a little more experience than Dean Smith.
It's got to be someone from the new stock of managers: Rowett would be a good shout, and I think Flores did a great job at Watford.
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I think the fact people are suggesting Brian little makes a return somewhat reinforces my point about the lack of options
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I am the Lone Ranger with Warburton. He's a decent manager and has a little more experience than Dean Smith.
It's got to be someone from the new stock of managers: Rowett would be a good shout, and I think Flores did a great job at Watford.
I would take Warburton aswell.
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:-\Stam . Knows the game A modern version of Bruce in the fact he knows modern game also has play off form
Seems no nonsense and like Wagner Huddersfield is quality manager who is diligent .
Stam coming in must be prepared to work with players and know he has to take them up .
Please not Moyes !
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Reading have been shit so far - it's way to big a job for him.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for. My head says Karanka but, deep down, it could have the same affect Zola did at Small Heath last season.
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I don't know who the answer is but I do know it's not Steve Bruce
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I still feel the same as when this poll started
I'd be very happy for jokanovic to come in
There are names on here who wouldn't come
The rest are a big risk and I think the job may just be too big for them. I completely agree that on paper this squad should be right up there. But despite what many say Bruce isn't an idiot.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for. My head says Karanka but, deep down, it could have the same affect Zola did at Small Heath last season.
To be fair none of those choices seemed that bad at the time. Houiller excepted they all just felt a little below where we should be aiming at.
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Could Fat Sam be tempted?
For me it's a list of two from Jokanovic and Smith. Both of them are longer term options too. Not just potential short term fixes.
I think Sam would do a job for us but don't think he would be interested in the slightest.
You just know Wyness will want Moyes though! Hopefully some of these 'advisors' start looking at more modern options.
Bruce was brought in for immediate impact and his history of getting promoted. Results driven. It's been an utter failure using this short term approach so hopefully we see a different selection process in the next week
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for. My head says Karanka but, deep down, it could have the same affect Zola did at Small Heath last season.
To be fair none of those choices seemed that bad at the time. Houiller excepted they all just felt a little below where we should be aiming at.
Agreed. Which just adds to the confusion of who we should go for next.
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Love to see Dean Smith but we would ruin him within a few months.
To be honest I haven't a stand out name. Lots of names I would not want within a million miles.
The logical choice up to a few months ago would have been Warburton but he's not picking trees out.
If I said Pullis then people would disown me but again a non starter as we don't have sufficient physicality in our team.
Troubled times
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No manager is going to resign from a premier league club to come here
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no manager from any club is going to resign to come here
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No manager is going to resign from a premier league club to come here
In the history of the Premier League Has any manager dropped to manage in a lower league ?
Jokanovic, Rowett or Dean Smith in that order
It will probably be Pardew
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or the dreaded Mr M
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Nobody of any up and coming repute will want the job. We won't get a current premier league manager, that's just insanity. People like Fat Sam don't need the stress. The job is a career killer and a poison chalice. It terrifies me who would end up coming in when Bruce goes .
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I have a horrible feeling that we will become John Terry's first managerial appointment before very much longer.
A really horrible, pit of your stomach kind of feeling.
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Please not Pardew. I can't stand that odious little cretin.
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Please not Pardew. I can't stand that odious little cretin.
Me neither. Imagine a partnership of him and Terry. Both for the club, and the players wives.
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Like I said I couldn't care a less who it is, as long as they are tactically astute, can adapt during games and actually get us winning.
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Someone like Karanka or Puel, or maybe something from out of left field like Guidolin, who IIRC was adjudged by many to have been harshly sacked at Swansea last season.
Can't help but think we're getting Pardew though - so here's hoping the lift he seems to give teams lasts long enough to get us promoted, and then we don't waste too much time binning when it goes sour.
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If he does go got a feeling we will go for someone out of work so we don't have to pay compensation. So pardew or hodgson
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Not bloody Hodgson. Now he is a footballing dinosaur.
I want someone who plays some decent football for a change and has a philosophy in the way his teams play. Bruce thinks the only way to get out of this league is to keep it tight and try to nick 1-0 wins.
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I have said Dean Smith for a long time. It would be great if he came to the club and was a success.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for.
I would go for the "not lumping managers into arbitrary categories and just hiring somebody good, regardless of where they are from" route.
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A local PE Teacher would probably do a better job than all the managers apart from Gerald since Martin O'Neill left.
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Am I the only one who thinks "they're bound to get it right next this time" only to be amazed at their final choice?
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It's so annoying as since January most have been happy with most of the signings for this league. The squad looks strong and the team generally should be far superior than the opposition in this division. We just do not show signs of improvement and we still do not have a consistent plan.
Wyness talks about the Villa machine and a style of play to carry us forward whoever is in charge, well I'd like to know what that is. Does Bruce know? This model thing seems a load of bollocks as we have built a squad of good players but not built a team with a coherent plan. I kind of get the feeling the Norwich game was a fluke.
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The Villa engine is just PR bollocks, the first team style of play resembles fuck all but a hotch potch of randomly assored players who are chopped and changed from one bad display to the next.
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I have said Dean Smith for a long time. It would be great if he came to the club and was a success.
Of course it would. But, bearing in mind that Brentford are in the relegation zone, I'm struggling to see on what basis anyone thinks that's likely to happen?
We've wasted millions on players that play well against us... are we now going to appoint a manager just because he has a good record against Villa (ignoring his rubbish record against everyone else)?
He would be an incredibly unambitious appointment.
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I have said Dean Smith for a long time. It would be great if he came to the club and was a success.
Of course it would. But, bearing in mind that Brentford are in the relegation zone, I'm struggling to see on what basis anyone thinks that's likely to happen?
We've wasted millions on players that play well against us... are we now going to appoint a manager just because he has a good record against Villa (ignoring his rubbish record against everyone else)?
He would be an incredibly unambitious appointment.
It would be incredibly brave as well for both parties. If it ever happened, I'd love it to work obviously but a Villa fan from Great Barr managing his own club? He'd possibly be shitting himself as soon as he walked through the door. The pressure would be enormous.
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Bournemouth are bottom 3 in the PL. Howe is a superb manager but it might be that he has taken that club as far as possible. Now he might not want to leave them in that position, but it would be a very ambitious move on our part to go after him. I love how he tries to play the game.
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Toronto, I like the way you talk
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Bournemouth are bottom 3 in the PL. Howe is a superb manager but it might be that he has taken that club as far as possible. Now he might not want to leave them in that position, but it would be a very ambitious move on our part to go after him. I love how he tries to play the game.
Totally agree and I believe we are in dream position for someone of the calibre of Howe to walk in and storm the league and become a hero. To be honest anyone with an attacking mentality could get us promoted with the players we have. I dont think Howe is going anywhere but its not such a stretch that it wouldnt be worth investigating.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for.
I would go for the "not lumping managers into arbitrary categories and just hiring somebody good, regardless of where they are from" route.
We haven't tried 'the no-nonsense, born-winner, English bulldog, understudy to the greats' type of candidate. And, I think if we are truthful with ourselves, we could all see it coming at the time of his signing.
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I'd love Dean Smith but as others have said the pressure & expectation from him being a local Villa man could crush him within months . Other than that he'd be perfect fit for us .
Who ever it is the expectation level of the fans needs to drop .
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for.
I would go for the "not lumping managers into arbitrary categories and just hiring somebody good, regardless of where they are from" route.
You missed out McLeish or have you wiped him from your memory? I wouldn't blame you.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for. My head says Karanka but, deep down, it could have the same affect Zola did at Small Heath last season.
Apart from Houllier, I didn't rate any of those choices at the time of appointment, regardless of what category we place them in.
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the one category that unites all of them is failure
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Bournemouth are bottom 3 in the PL. Howe is a superb manager but it might be that he has taken that club as far as possible. Now he might not want to leave them in that position, but it would be a very ambitious move on our part to go after him. I love how he tries to play the game.
He has been a favourite of mine for a long,long time.
I just can't see it happening though, but what a coup if it did.
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I'd love Dean Smith but as others have said the pressure & expectation from him being a local Villa man could crush him within months . Other than that he'd be perfect fit for us .
Who ever it is the expectation level of the fans needs to drop .
I think the opposite. Being a Villa man would bye him more time and less pressure IMO. He just has a Gregory feel about him
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I think we're much too big a job for somebody like Howe.
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Howe would be ideal but we are too big for Dean Smith. To date his managerial accomplishments are fewer than Graham Turner had managed when we appointed him.
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Eddie Howe is head and shoulders above Bruce ability wise. You'd have to be Comical Ali or Alex Bruce to think otherwise.
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Eddie Howe has emotional attachment to Bournemouth.
He wouldn't walk out on them during a season in any case.
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Howe would be ideal but we are too big for Dean Smith. To date his managerial accomplishments are fewer than Graham Turner had managed when we appointed him.
Yes, but Dean Smith isn't taking over a top flight team who have spent the last four years winning the league, European Cup, Super Cup and finishing mid table in the top flight last season.
I wouldn't mind Dean Smith, he has done well at Brentford and Walsall before that. I just suspect that the only way Howe's career is going after Bournemouth (where admittedly he has done a fantastic job) is down.
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It's a bit of a myth that he's "done well" at Brentford. When he took over, they were near the relegation zone... but it was still basically the same team that finished fifth under Warburton a few months earlier. They've had two mid-table finishes under him. Not bad, but far from enough to convince me that he's the man for the job. And they're currently in the relegation zone.
If our league position is enough for people, myself included, to think that Bruce should be sacked, why would we want to appoint someone who has managed to get a team doing even worse?
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It's a bit of a myth that he's "done well" at Brentford. When he took over, they were near the relegation zone... but it was still basically the same team that finished fifth under Warburton a few months earlier. They've had two mid-table finishes under him. Not bad, but far from enough to convince me that he's the man for the job. And they're currently in the relegation zone.
If our league position is enough for people, myself included, to think that Bruce should be sacked, why would we want to appoint someone who has managed to get a team doing even worse?
Just look at what their fans say about him though and how he plays football. He would do brilliant,y for us and would for certain know how to get hogan firing too
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They play good football AGAINST US.
They clearly don't play good football most weeks or they wouldn't be twenty-third.
And I'm sure Shrewsbury fans spoke highly of Graham Turner before he left. It doesn't mean he was the right appointment for a club with our ambitions.
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Surely playing good football and keeping Brentford in the Championship is a major achievement. Their natural base is probably League 2?
By the way I am not advocating Dean Smith for us.
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I think we're much too big a job for somebody like Howe.
Why? Isn't it just about sorting the footballing side and making it work regardless of name, history location etc?
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They were fifth the season before he joined. So, I don't see avoiding relegation as a major achievement. In any case, they aren't even currently on course to "achieve" that. They're twenty-third. Below Steve Bruce Villa and such giants of the game as Burton Albion, Barnsley and Small Heath.
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I think we're much too big a job for somebody like Howe.
Why? Isn't it just about sorting the footballing side and making it work regardless of name, history location etc?
He works at a club who have a ground that has a capacity 3500 less than the Holte. There is no pressure on Bournemouth to play in the top flight or the 2nd Division.
How would he cope with a 0-0 draw being met with furious outcry? He's never had anything like that and the closest he got at Burnley, he failed.
Aston Villa is a huge job. Flavour of the months or one club wonders need not apply.
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More I think about who next the more I can see Terry being given the job
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More I think about who next the more I can see Terry being given the job
I think it has been mentioned on here that Terry would be a non-starter due to the fact that he possesses no coaching badges which automatically nullifies him. It may be that that only applies in the top-flight I'm not sure.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for.
I would go for the "not lumping managers into arbitrary categories and just hiring somebody good, regardless of where they are from" route.
You missed out McLeish or have you wiped him from your memory? I wouldn't blame you.
I genuinely don't know what category I would put him under, such was the strangeness of his appointment.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for.
I would go for the "not lumping managers into arbitrary categories and just hiring somebody good, regardless of where they are from" route.
You missed out McLeish or have you wiped him from your memory? I wouldn't blame you.
I genuinely don't know what category I would put him under, such was the strangeness of his appointment.
And he's not even big...no one ever called Shaun Wright-Phillips, Big Shaun.
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I think we're much too big a job for somebody like Howe.
Why? Isn't it just about sorting the footballing side and making it work regardless of name, history location etc?
He works at a club who have a ground that has a capacity 3500 less than the Holte. There is no pressure on Bournemouth to play in the top flight or the 2nd Division.
How would he cope with a 0-0 draw being met with furious outcry? He's never had anything like that and the closest he got at Burnley, he failed.
Aston Villa is a huge job. Flavour of the months or one club wonders need not apply.
This is why I think we need to find a manager with a record of meeting the expectations of a club that expect to be the big fish. This is the main reason I didn't want Bruce and it's why I hoped RDM could work but his time at Chelsea clearly wasn't enough to teach him how to handle that pressure. It's also why McLeish and Lambert were appointments that were always a high risk and we really should've been looking a level or 2 higher in both cases. As I've said before Wolves managed to get a very good manager from Portugal with all the right credentials and look at how they're playing now. Given they took on Lambert at roughly the same time we got Bruce I'd say that's good evidence that abandoning a manager who just doesn't fit and getting a well scouted replacement can have a massive impact.
All of this is why I waned Cocu on the list and would like us to at least ask the question, he's too good for the championship but if that's what we want to be then we need to start getting staff and players who seem unrealistic.
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I'd hope we'd go down that route too. It's going to be expensive in the short term. But Christ, look at the bench and the four players of Dr Laet, Kodjia, Adomah, Grealish who are to come back and explain to me, with a straight face, how there's not enough quality to win this league.
If Bruce fails he only has himself to blame.
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I'd hope we'd go down that route too. It's going to be expensive in the short term. But Christ, look at the bench and the four players of Dr Laet, Kodjia, Adomah, Grealish who are to come back and explain to me, with a straight face, how there's not enough quality to win this league.
If Bruce fails he only has himself to blame.
And another 5-6 kids who look like they could have an impact as well (blackett-taylor, doyle-hayes, o'hare, RHM, sulieman and lyden at the very least look like they could offer something for a few games here and there).
That's also still ignoring players like Elphick, Samba, McCormack and Hutton who should all be capable as 3rd or 4th choice at this level.
I firmly believe that you could get a decent manager to look at this squad and if we could offer him a few million to add a player or 2 in January and see it as a route into a premier league job where he'd have almost a blank slate to do what he wanted to move on.
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Serious question, if Terry gets the gig for 3 or 4 games and we win them, would it be worth seeing what he is made of as a manager. He's no younger than Monk, has the big club mentality and might bring a coaching team to the table to play a bit differently. I think he will be seriously considered if the trigger is pulled.
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Serious question, if Terry gets the gig for 3 or 4 games and we win them, would it be worth seeing what he is made of as a manager. He's no younger than Monk, has the big club mentality and might bring a coaching team to the table to play a bit differently. I think he will be seriously considered if the trigger is pulled.
I'd be very worried if we did that. With no badges and no experience it would be very much a case of learning on the job and, for me, getting a bit of a bounce wouldn't be enough to take that risk unless the alternatives were shite like Moyes and Pardew.
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We've signed him as a player though.
No way could he be player manager so we'd be another centre half down with limited options until January.
I personally think the whole courting him was a bit of a circus and while he hasn't been terrible on the pitch his presence seems to have destabilized a solid defence unless people can point to other reasons why we've been conceding regularly this season (and the clean sheet yesterday was pretty lucky).
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We've signed him as a player though.
No way could he be player manager so we'd be another centre half down with limited options until January.
I personally think the whole courting him was a bit of a circus and while he hasn't been terrible on the pitch his presence seems to have destabilized a solid defence unless people can point to other reasons why we've been conceding regularly this season (and the clean sheet yesterday was pretty lucky).
I think if you put Jedinak in front of Terry and Chester, tell them both to hold their positions and let Jedi be the one who dominates in the air and cuts of that supply they'll be fine. That does just raise another question of why Bruce thought Terry and Whelan could play together though because I think that dynamic is a big part of the problem at the back.
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I should clarify Jokanovic, Karanka, Smith, Warburton etc... would be way before him.
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We've signed him as a player though.
No way could he be player manager so we'd be another centre half down with limited options until January.
I personally think the whole courting him was a bit of a circus and while he hasn't been terrible on the pitch his presence seems to have destabilized a solid defence unless people can point to other reasons why we've been conceding regularly this season (and the clean sheet yesterday was pretty lucky).
I think if you put Jedinak in front of Terry and Chester, tell them both to hold their positions and let Jedi be the one who dominates in the air and cuts of that supply they'll be fine. That does just raise another question of why Bruce thought Terry and Whelan could play together though because I think that dynamic is a big part of the problem at the back.
Think we'll see that on Tuesday. Would expect Jedinak to start so let's see if he can settle the defence down as he did a good job at that last season.
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The pressure to get results will be on any new manager as soon as he walks through the door, and one of the few who is thick skinned enough and experienced enough to grab this job by the horns would be Fat Sam. He wouldn't be a popular choice, he may not come out of retirement, but I'm pretty sure he'd get us into the top 6 this season...and getting us to position of having a chance of promotion this season is all that matters.
For the record, I think Howe would be a great appointment (but unlikely to leave Bournemouth mid-season) and Smith would be a massive gamble for many reasons regardless of support for the club.
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I'd hope we'd go down that route too. It's going to be expensive in the short term. But Christ, look at the bench and the four players of Dr Laet, Kodjia, Adomah, Grealish who are to come back and explain to me, with a straight face, how there's not enough quality to win this league.
If Bruce fails he only has himself to blame.
Yes indeed.
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The pressure to get results will be on any new manager as soon as he walks through the door, and one of the few who is thick skinned enough and experienced enough to grab this job by the horns would be Fat Sam. He wouldn't be a popular choice, he may not come out of retirement, but I'm pretty sure he'd get us into the top 6 this season...and getting us to position of having a chance of promotion this season is all that matters.
For the record, I think Howe would be a great appointment (but unlikely to leave Bournemouth mid-season) and Smith would be a massive gamble for many reasons regardless of support for the club.
I would not be upset if it was Sam.
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Sam gave up a job in the prem - if he wants to work again he could have another one - possibly at the same club!
We may have to wait until someone good gets sacked, unless we go for karanka (good record at this level, pragmatic, bit defensive likes 4411 - bound to succeed!)
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It WILL be John Terry. As for not having badges. He's got an advanced Boy Scouts badge in banging team mates wives!
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for. My head says Karanka but, deep down, it could have the same affect Zola did at Small Heath last season.
To be fair none of those choices seemed that bad at the time. Houiller excepted they all just felt a little below where we should be aiming at.
Agreed. Which just adds to the confusion of who we should go for next.
Aye. if it was me I would spin the wheel from the "Tried and tested foreigner" bucket again. But I admit unless you go and get a genuinely proven high quality manager (Like Newcastle managed to luck into) then you are rolling the dice regardless. Either way I think our football quality will improve with the next manager. It has to really.
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for. My head says Karanka but, deep down, it could have the same affect Zola did at Small Heath last season.
To be fair none of those choices seemed that bad at the time. Houiller excepted they all just felt a little below where we should be aiming at.
Agreed. Which just adds to the confusion of who we should go for next.
Aye. if it was me I would spin the wheel from the "Tried and tested foreigner" bucket again. But I admit unless you go and get a genuinely proven high quality manager (Like Newcastle managed to luck into) then you are rolling the dice regardless. Either way I think our football quality will improve with the next manager. It has to really.
Yep, just like it has with the last 6.
I wonder what Palace fans think of Frank de Boer? Yet I imagine a lot would have creamed themselves on here if we had attracted him.
I'm not saying Bruce is right, far from it it seem, but it isn't easy getting it right and a wrong appointment could easily leave us relegated.
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for the 5 that voted for our Neil Warnock forget it !
get sam alydyce in he'll sort out your money bags team out
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I'm sure there are foreign-based candidates who could do a great job, but I've no idea who they are and I doubt our board does either
I remember thinking that there was massive downside risk when lambert went and I was right in the medium term
Should be more upside risk here, but there's obviously something fundamental that's still wrong with the club. I really think it could swallow up the likes of dean smith
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We've tried every possible type of candidate in recent years with no success.
Tried and tested, successful foreigner- Houllier
Up and coming Brit needing a step up - Lambert
Young English "coach" - Sherwood
Unknown foreigner with new ideas - Garde
The left field surprise "that could work" - RDM
Belt and braces, meat and potato, no nonsense Englishman - Bruce
I genuinely don't know what route to go down or who, specifically, we should go for. My head says Karanka but, deep down, it could have the same affect Zola did at Small Heath last season.
To be fair none of those choices seemed that bad at the time. Houiller excepted they all just felt a little below where we should be aiming at.
Agreed. Which just adds to the confusion of who we should go for next.
Aye. if it was me I would spin the wheel from the "Tried and tested foreigner" bucket again. But I admit unless you go and get a genuinely proven high quality manager (Like Newcastle managed to luck into) then you are rolling the dice regardless. Either way I think our football quality will improve with the next manager. It has to really.
Yep, just like it has with the last 6.
I wonder what Palace fans think of Frank de Boer? Yet I imagine a lot would have creamed themselves on here if we had attracted him.
I'm not saying Bruce is right, far from it it seem, but it isn't easy getting it right and a wrong appointment could easily leave us relegated.
Frank De Boer would've been top of my list in the summer before he went to them, he's had a tough start and it might leave him looking like damaged goods but I'd suggest that's because he's a bad fit for the type of club Palace are, I reckon both us and them would improve from a manager swap.
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Reading Smith talking about dominating the ball and using their movement to get their higher midfielders in behind makes me very jealous.
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I have wanted Big Sam a few times in the last few seasons. I reckon with the size of the club and the challenge of getting us back up he would go for it. His alternative would probably be yet another PL relegation firefighting job. I suspect he has had enough of them.
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Reading Smith talking about dominating the ball and using their movement to get their higher midfielders in behind makes me very jealous.
Talking about it is all well and good. If they actually did it, they'd be higher than twenty-third.
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I think our whole coaching policy needs looking at, not just the manager. Colin Calderwood and Steven Clemence don't fill me with much confidence I must say. I'd love to hear what this Villa Engine is all about because from what I've seen of late they don't seem to have a fookin clue what they're trying to do.
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I think our whole coaching policy needs looking at, not just the manager. Colin Calderwood and Steven Clemence don't fill me with much confidence I must say. I'd love to hear what this Villa Engine is all about because from what I've seen of late they don't seem to have a fookin clue what they're trying to do.
I was watching SKY covering a greyhound meeting at Hall Green years ago and they interviewed Ray Clemence.
"Are you still involved in football in any way Ray"?
Ray looked a bit pissed off and replied "I'm the England goalkeeping coach".
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Reading Smith talking about dominating the ball and using their movement to get their higher midfielders in behind makes me very jealous.
Talking about it is all well and good. If they actually did it, they'd be higher than twenty-third.
They would be had they taken their chances this season. Last season they had a striker doing that. 23rd and played us off the park.
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It's still a bit of a risk tho isn't it!
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Without doubt it is. But Bruce is a bigger one at the moment. Even in 2 seasons the championship seems to have evolved somewhat. Bruce seems to have completely lost whatever he had at this level. Either that or Phelan did all the tactics.
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It's still a bit of a risk tho isn't it!
It is. Whereas sticking with this prick is a guaranteed future exactly where we are.
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I do think he's rapidly running out of time. Do I have to start calling him a prick, or an idiot, or a twat now?
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Entirely up to you mate.
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Reading Smith talking about dominating the ball and using their movement to get their higher midfielders in behind makes me very jealous.
Talking about it is all well and good. If they actually did it, they'd be higher than twenty-third.
They would be had they taken their chances this season. Last season they had a striker doing that. 23rd and played us off the park.
They only finished mid-table last year (and the year below that), having finished fifth the year before Smith arrived.
Playing us off the park is no criteria to select a manager.
Yes, Brentford have done well AGAINST VILLA. They don't do it week in, week out, or they'd wouldn't he languishing below Burton Albion.
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Reading Smith talking about dominating the ball and using their movement to get their higher midfielders in behind makes me very jealous.
Talking about it is all well and good. If they actually did it, they'd be higher than twenty-third.
They would be had they taken their chances this season. Last season they had a striker doing that. 23rd and played us off the park.
They only finished mid-table last year (and the year below that), having finished fifth the year before Smith arrived.
Playing us off the park is no criteria to select a manager.
Yes, Brentford have done well AGAINST VILLA. They don't do it week in, week out, or they'd wouldn't he languishing below Burton Albion.
They finished above us last season.
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So? We were shit last season.
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This time next week they could be above us again.
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Brentford are massively overachieving being competitive in this division. If they get relegated no one really blinks an eyelid just like when Burton go down this season.
I'd say Smith has done a steady job there like he's done at Walsall. Not amazing like Warburton getting them into the top 6 but two mid table finishes well clear of relegation with their transfer model is solid enough.
One outsider no-one is mentioning is Chris Wilder at Sheffield United, his win ratio last few years is off the scale at Northampton and Sheffield United and they've adapted well to this division.
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This time next week they could be above us again.
Maybe. But they still wouldn't be anywhere particularly good. I'm not saying he's done badly, but I just don't get that he's done particularly well, either.
I reckon if we were linked with Nigel Clough or Phil Parkinson most on this thread would be bemoaning our lack of ambition. And yet both, arguably, have achieved more than Smith.
People seem to be blinded by the fact that his team raise their game against us. His managerial career is okay, maybe quite good if you're being generous. He may well prove to be a good manager in the future. At the moment, though, I see insufficient evidence that he is likely to be the man to get us promoted.
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I actually agree with you cb.
I saw many games when he was at Walsall and he infuriated plenty of fans with just sticking rigidly to his style of play although that system of actually attempting to pass the ball would be more pleasing on the eye than the dirge we're watching.
I like him as a manager but not sure he'd be a great fit for where we are now. Can't say I can think of an ideal candidate though.
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I don't think he's the man for us. There are many reasons why I wouldn't want him as our manager. But, you have to respect that what he's doing with Brentford is incredible. There's been plenty of clubs who have had a meteoric rise beyond their natural position. What normally happens is that they lose their manager and/or best players and end up back where they came from. Brentford seem to lose their best players twice a season, yet they're still surviving at least a division above where they should be even after the momentum that took them there has gone. For that he deserves a lot more respect than a grudging "they're only 23rd".
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There is something wrong in this world of ours where 47 posters want Dean Smith and only 15 Thomas Tuchel.
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So? We were shit last season.
And even shitter this season.
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I don't think he's the man for us. There are many reasons why I wouldn't want him as our manager. But, you have to respect that what he's doing with Brentford is incredible. There's been plenty of clubs who have had a meteoric rise beyond their natural position. What normally happens is that they lose their manager and/or best players and end up back where they came from. Brentford seem to lose their best players twice a season, yet they're still surviving at least a division above where they should be even after the momentum that took them there has gone. For that he deserves a lot more respect than a grudging "they're only 23rd".
i read their forum, it appears they only really have one but nobody blamed him for where they were. Quite the opposite; they all felt sorry for him. He certainly deserves and has their respect. Could he have our's? Could he honestly do any worse than our present manager?
Football is a lottery. It's so much about the right person being there at the right time. Ask Ron Saunders.
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I don't think he's the man for us. There are many reasons why I wouldn't want him as our manager. But, you have to respect that what he's doing with Brentford is incredible. There's been plenty of clubs who have had a meteoric rise beyond their natural position. What normally happens is that they lose their manager and/or best players and end up back where they came from. Brentford seem to lose their best players twice a season, yet they're still surviving at least a division above where they should be even after the momentum that took them there has gone. For that he deserves a lot more respect than a grudging "they're only 23rd".
i read their forum, it appears they only really have one but nobody blamed him for where they were. Quite the opposite; they all felt sorry for him. He certainly deserves and has their respect. Could he have our's? Could he honestly do any worse than our present manager?
Football is a lottery. It's so much about the right person being there at the right time. Ask Ron Saunders.
That's a good point. Sometimes it's not so much about the right man as the right time. Put Claudio Ranieri in at Leicester a year or two either side of when he was actually there and he would have been mid-table at best. Instead, he gave them arguably the greatest managerial performance in history. Jo Venglos five years later could have been a completely different character to the one we endured. If Graham Turner had spent time at Wolves before rather than after he left us he might have been different entirely. It's all about timing.
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I don't think he's the man for us. There are many reasons why I wouldn't want him as our manager. But, you have to respect that what he's doing with Brentford is incredible. There's been plenty of clubs who have had a meteoric rise beyond their natural position. What normally happens is that they lose their manager and/or best players and end up back where they came from. Brentford seem to lose their best players twice a season, yet they're still surviving at least a division above where they should be even after the momentum that took them there has gone. For that he deserves a lot more respect than a grudging "they're only 23rd".
i read their forum, it appears they only really have one but nobody blamed him for where they were. Quite the opposite; they all felt sorry for him. He certainly deserves and has their respect. Could he have our's? Could he honestly do any worse than our present manager?
Football is a lottery. It's so much about the right person being there at the right time. Ask Ron Saunders.
Unless we can go and lure someobe like Jokanovic who clearly is very decent, we are going to have to gamble. Who will come in October? Who has a record that would take us to the play offs? Pardew maybe? Horrible thought but pretty good at getting a bounce. Give me Villa playing like Brentford did at the weekend and i would be quite happy right now.
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I don't think he's the man for us. There are many reasons why I wouldn't want him as our manager. But, you have to respect that what he's doing with Brentford is incredible. There's been plenty of clubs who have had a meteoric rise beyond their natural position. What normally happens is that they lose their manager and/or best players and end up back where they came from. Brentford seem to lose their best players twice a season, yet they're still surviving at least a division above where they should be even after the momentum that took them there has gone. For that he deserves a lot more respect than a grudging "they're only 23rd".
i read their forum, it appears they only really have one but nobody blamed him for where they were. Quite the opposite; they all felt sorry for him. He certainly deserves and has their respect. Could he have our's? Could he honestly do any worse than our present manager?
Football is a lottery. It's so much about the right person being there at the right time. Ask Ron Saunders.
Unless we can go and lure someobe like Jokanovic who clearly is very decent, we are going to have to gamble. Who will come in October? Who has a record that would take us to the play offs? Pardew maybe? Horrible thought but pretty good at getting a bounce. Give me Villa playing like Brentford did at the weekend and i would be quite happy right now.
It's why Bruce should have gone last May. Stability comes with a price.
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I don't think he's the man for us. There are many reasons why I wouldn't want him as our manager. But, you have to respect that what he's doing with Brentford is incredible. There's been plenty of clubs who have had a meteoric rise beyond their natural position. What normally happens is that they lose their manager and/or best players and end up back where they came from. Brentford seem to lose their best players twice a season, yet they're still surviving at least a division above where they should be even after the momentum that took them there has gone. For that he deserves a lot more respect than a grudging "they're only 23rd".
i read their forum, it appears they only really have one but nobody blamed him for where they were. Quite the opposite; they all felt sorry for him. He certainly deserves and has their respect. Could he have our's? Could he honestly do any worse than our present manager?
Football is a lottery. It's so much about the right person being there at the right time. Ask Ron Saunders.
Unless we can go and lure someobe like Jokanovic who clearly is very decent, we are going to have to gamble. Who will come in October? Who has a record that would take us to the play offs? Pardew maybe? Horrible thought but pretty good at getting a bounce. Give me Villa playing like Brentford did at the weekend and i would be quite happy right now.
Karanka took over Boro in November 2013 - they didn't go anywhere that season but made the playoff final after that, and then automatic promotion. Stunk up the joint in the Premier League, of course, but that bridge can be crossed after we get there.
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I don't think he's the man for us. There are many reasons why I wouldn't want him as our manager. But, you have to respect that what he's doing with Brentford is incredible. There's been plenty of clubs who have had a meteoric rise beyond their natural position. What normally happens is that they lose their manager and/or best players and end up back where they came from. Brentford seem to lose their best players twice a season, yet they're still surviving at least a division above where they should be even after the momentum that took them there has gone. For that he deserves a lot more respect than a grudging "they're only 23rd".
i read their forum, it appears they only really have one but nobody blamed him for where they were. Quite the opposite; they all felt sorry for him. He certainly deserves and has their respect. Could he have our's? Could he honestly do any worse than our present manager?
Football is a lottery. It's so much about the right person being there at the right time. Ask Ron Saunders.
Unless we can go and lure someobe like Jokanovic who clearly is very decent, we are going to have to gamble. Who will come in October? Who has a record that would take us to the play offs? Pardew maybe? Horrible thought but pretty good at getting a bounce. Give me Villa playing like Brentford did at the weekend and i would be quite happy right now.
It's why Bruce should have gone last May. Stability comes with a price.
Yep
That stability arguement is looking quite stale right now.
He has stabilised us as a mid table 2nd Division team.
I think our promotion chances were damned as soon as the chancers running the club Decided to back Bruce through the summer.
I doubt that we can make an appointment to turn this around.
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Roger Schmidt? Seems to be managing in China. Not sure why
I'd have thought like many others on the list above that there's no chance he'd come, and I imagine he's on a massive salary, but I don't see too many credible candidates so thought I'd add it to the mix
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Roger Schmidt? Seems to be managing in China. Not sure why
I'd have thought like many others on the list above that there's no chance he'd come, and I imagine he's on a massive salary, but I don't see too many credible candidates so thought I'd add it to the mix
Imagine some of the plodders in our team playing the mad-cap pressing football he partook in at Leverkusen.
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There is something wrong in this world of ours where 47 posters want Dean Smith and only 15 Thomas Tuchel.
I'd love Tuchel
I didn't vote for him because it's not realistic. He was linked with the Chelsea job in the summer
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Roger Schmidt? Seems to be managing in China. Not sure why
I'd have thought like many others on the list above that there's no chance he'd come, and I imagine he's on a massive salary, but I don't see too many credible candidates so thought I'd add it to the mix
Imagine some of the plodders in our team playing the mad-cap pressing football he partook in at Leverkusen.
Yeah that's true - you'd see the thirty something's dropped and that might be a problem at centre back
I reckon it would be Karanka - which is basically an attempt at doing the same thing - or we wait till someone else becomes available
I can't see us going for Dean Smith for all the reasons above. I spoke to a Brentford fan a couple of weeks ago who was a bit "meh" about him.
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Sean Dyche sounds like the man for us,Two shots on target for Burnley vs Palace. The SB legacy will be safe in his hands.
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The reason I believe Allardyce can do the job is related to Dave's latest article, I think Fat Sam would scare some Villa players shitless. That's why I really believe they need a nasty bastard to get them fired up.
I thought we had bought leaders to the club as of now I see little evidence of it.
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Roger Schmidt? Seems to be managing in China. Not sure why
I'd have thought like many others on the list above that there's no chance he'd come, and I imagine he's on a massive salary, but I don't see too many credible candidates so thought I'd add it to the mix
Imagine some of the plodders in our team playing the mad-cap pressing football he partook in at Leverkusen.
Yeah that's true - you'd see the thirty something's dropped and that might be a problem at centre back
I reckon it would be Karanka - which is basically an attempt at doing the same thing - or we wait till someone else becomes available
I can't see us going for Dean Smith for all the reasons above. I spoke to a Brentford fan a couple of weeks ago who was a bit "meh" about him.
Karanka had a reputation as being a bit of a dullard even in the Championship, I think. 9th and 8th in terms of goals scored, even though they finished 4th and 2nd respectively in those two seasons.
I mean, I don't give a crap about playing champagne football or anything, but that was essentially Bruce's remit, and also I'm not sure it's the sort of squad capable of eking out those kinds of results. The back 4 looks dodgy, and our best midfielders' strengths lie in relation to going forward.
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Boro were ultra mean at the back think only 30 conceded the season they went up. Not sure he's the right fit for us. Got to be envious of Wolves getting a manager who clearly has a clue about how to attack. Rowett and Monk doing good jobs again this season. Yet we can't string 2 halves of decent football together let alone 2 games. Both of those had to shape their team in less time than Bruce has. Derby even lost Ince but still cantered past Hull 5 nil.
Interesting that during the international break Smith was on the training ground coaching while Bruce was on the beach in Portugal.
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Roger Schmidt? Seems to be managing in China. Not sure why
I'd have thought like many others on the list above that there's no chance he'd come, and I imagine he's on a massive salary, but I don't see too many credible candidates so thought I'd add it to the mix
The bold bit is what i have a problem with. Wolves have a guy who was at Porto and Valencia as his last 2 jobs and yet we are limited to looking at people like Smith because decent managers apparently aren't credible.
A credible manager is anyone that the board can convince to come in and I'd like to think they'll at least start with their sights a bit higher than a villa fan who's doing a decent job at Brentford or the management dole queue. If they don't I think we may as well settle in as a championship mid-table club because we'll be going nowhere.
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The reason I believe Allardyce can do the job is related to Dave's latest article, I think Fat Sam would scare some Villa players shitless. That's why I really believe they need a nasty bastard to get them fired up.
I thought we had bought leaders to the club as of now I see little evidence of it.
That's exactly what Bruce was supposed to do when he arrived. That doesn't seem to have happened and worse still, many of the wasters that he was supposedly going to sort out are still here contributing nothing.
Reading that interview with Wyness, the overall vision is built around young players at the club coming through so I think we would need a manger who will buy into and embrace that philosophy and I don't think Allardyce, Moyes etc. are that type. As someone wrote in the Wyness thread, why not start working on the vision now so it is already in place if / when we do go up?
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How can a ''Villa Engine'' work? With all youth levels and the first team being based around the same style of play with Bruce in charge? Are we going to train everyone throughout the club how to play dull, defensive, boring football? It's just another sound bite released again when things are a bit shit to gee everyone up and make us think they know what they are doing.
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Boro were ultra mean at the back think only 30 conceded the season they went up. Not sure he's the right fit for us. Got to be envious of Wolves getting a manager who clearly has a clue about how to attack. Rowett and Monk doing good jobs again this season. Yet we can't string 2 halves of decent football together let alone 2 games. Both of those had to shape their team in less time than Bruce has. Derby even lost Ince but still cantered past Hull 5 nil.
Interesting that during the international break Smith was on the training ground coaching while Bruce was on the beach in Portugal.
I watched a fair few Valencia games while Nuno was in charge, and he was honestly quite negative - a lot of sit back and counter sort of stuff. Likewise, from what I read around the time he was hired by Wolves, the same was said about his Porto tenure as well. I think the point is that unless you're a Bielsa-type who'll try and implement a particular philosophically in a very dogmatic way, it's more important that a manager is able to adapt and find the most effective fit for the players he's got.
Not necessarily sure Karanka fits the bill, but I really can't think of a reason why one would put Dean Smith ahead of him.
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I came across this video on Bielsa on a coaching page I follow (as I coach a kids team myself). It's impressive and depressing in equal measure as I'm pretty sure it talks in a completely different language to one that Steve Bruce would understand:
https://www.facebook.com/uMAXitFootball/videos/1630945450291129/
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What about Frank de Boer? Struggling at Palace but might suit being at a bigger club.
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He's just been sacked by Palace apparantly. I thought they played ok second half yesterday, if Dann puts his sitter away then he still has a job. It was better than we've played away for about 3 years.
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I came across this video on Bielsa on a coaching page I follow (as I coach a kids team myself). It's impressive and depressing in equal measure as I'm pretty sure it talks in a completely different language to one that Steve Bruce would understand:
https://www.facebook.com/uMAXitFootball/videos/1630945450291129/
It was all going great until the bit about Bielsa demanding 'huge technical skill from squad', which basically fcuks it for us
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He's just been sacked by Palace apparantly. I thought they played ok second half yesterday, if Dann puts his sitter away then he still has a job. It was better than we've played away for about 3 years.
Not sure someone who's just broken the sort of record even we'd find embarrassing would be my first port of call.
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To offer another credible (and unemployed) option how about Michel Preud'homme, good record at a number of club (over 50% win rate everywhere he's been, including a season at Twente which is a massive achievement with them. I can't say I've seen much of his teams so I don't know how he plays but the profile is right.
Aside from that if De Boer is sacked I'd take him in a heartbeat.
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I came across this video on Bielsa on a coaching page I follow (as I coach a kids team myself). It's impressive and depressing in equal measure as I'm pretty sure it talks in a completely different language to one that Steve Bruce would understand:
https://www.facebook.com/uMAXitFootball/videos/1630945450291129/
That really makes for interesting viewing but, unfortunately, as you said, depressing viewing too.
If 5 minute tutorials like this are so easily available, even I felt as if I learned a lot in a short space of time.
Our manager prefers to spend his spare time at his place on the Algarve instead of trying to find ways to improve his woeful performance in the best job he's ever had. His choice and it can only end one way - the sooner the better.
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He's just been sacked by Palace apparantly. I thought they played ok second half yesterday, if Dann puts his sitter away then he still has a job. It was better than we've played away for about 3 years.
That's like putting in argument for a club hiring RDM. Life's full of what ifs. De Boer is a big name in football and did well in Holland but has done nothing since. There's nothing to suggest he is going to have the ability for us right at this moment. Any more than Garde when he came in last season. He might be the right person at another time but now I'm not so sure.
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He's just been sacked by Palace apparantly. I thought they played ok second half yesterday, if Dann puts his sitter away then he still has a job. It was better than we've played away for about 3 years.
That's like putting in argument for a club hiring RDM. Life's full of what ifs. De Boer is a big name in football and did well in Holland but has done nothing since. There's nothing to suggest he is going to have the ability for us right at this moment. Any more than Garde when he came in last season. He might be the right person at another time but now I'm not so sure.
I agree he wasn't great at Inter where he had a decent squad and he's not got Palace firing yet but 6 seasons of success at a club that is built around it's youth system (as we supposedly want to be) shouldn't be dismissed because of about 20 games where he hasn't managed to turn other clubs around. I think he'd be a much better bet than keeping Bruce.
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To offer another credible (and unemployed) option how about Michel Preud'homme, good record at a number of club (over 50% win rate everywhere he's been, including a season at Twente which is a massive achievement with them. I can't say I've seen much of his teams so I don't know how he plays but the profile is right.
There was a game in (I think) USA 94 when he pulled off the best display I think I've ever seen from a goalkeeper.
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He's just been sacked by Palace apparantly. I thought they played ok second half yesterday, if Dann puts his sitter away then he still has a job. It was better than we've played away for about 3 years.
That's like putting in argument for a club hiring RDM. Life's full of what ifs. De Boer is a big name in football and did well in Holland but has done nothing since. There's nothing to suggest he is going to have the ability for us right at this moment. Any more than Garde when he came in last season. He might be the right person at another time but now I'm not so sure.
I agree he wasn't great at Inter where he had a decent squad and he's not got Palace firing yet but 6 seasons of success at a club that is built around it's youth system (as we supposedly want to be) shouldn't be dismissed because of about 20 games where he hasn't managed to turn other clubs around. I think he'd be a much better bet than keeping Bruce.
Not dismissing that. It's just a question of is he what we need now? I want a progressive manager who plays the game the right way. Wants to attack. And yes develop our kids. But also have the required appetite and ability to change where we are (again) quickly. Maybe he can. I don't know but not entirely convinced.
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He's just been sacked by Palace apparantly. I thought they played ok second half yesterday, if Dann puts his sitter away then he still has a job. It was better than we've played away for about 3 years.
That's like putting in argument for a club hiring RDM. Life's full of what ifs. De Boer is a big name in football and did well in Holland but has done nothing since. There's nothing to suggest he is going to have the ability for us right at this moment. Any more than Garde when he came in last season. He might be the right person at another time but now I'm not so sure.
I agree he wasn't great at Inter where he had a decent squad and he's not got Palace firing yet but 6 seasons of success at a club that is built around it's youth system (as we supposedly want to be) shouldn't be dismissed because of about 20 games where he hasn't managed to turn other clubs around. I think he'd be a much better bet than keeping Bruce.
Well he would certainly fit the vision that was described last week. There have been rumours that his general style and training techniques haven't gone down well and that might be the reason why they have started so poorly. Bit like Houllier came here and began double training sessions when the likes of Dunne were used to MON's early finishes and days off.
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To offer another credible (and unemployed) option how about Michel Preud'homme, good record at a number of club (over 50% win rate everywhere he's been, including a season at Twente which is a massive achievement with them. I can't say I've seen much of his teams so I don't know how he plays but the profile is right.
There was a game in (I think) USA 94 when he pulled off the best display I think I've ever seen from a goalkeeper.
Yeah, he was a brilliant keeper and I remember that one, he was also fucking brilliant against England 4 years earlier where we only beat him with that brilliant Platt goal.
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Gus Poyet just resigned from his club in China. He'd probably be in the rumour mix as well.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41226746
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Oh, God no.
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To offer another credible (and unemployed) option how about Michel Preud'homme, good record at a number of club (over 50% win rate everywhere he's been, including a season at Twente which is a massive achievement with them. I can't say I've seen much of his teams so I don't know how he plays but the profile is right.
Aside from that if De Boer is sacked I'd take him in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't. Just been a disaster at Palace (without being given much time admittedly) and flopped at Inter. So he won the league with Ajax. Steve McClaren won it with Twente but I wouldn't want him solely based on that.
Roy Hodgson the early favourite for the Palace job. Think it was his local team and he may even have had a spell their as a youth player. I also think he lives nearby. I saw his house on the news when he was appointed England manager. I thought he had been filmed coming out of Buckingham Palace. It was a tidy gaff.
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From what I've read of the situation, Palace had assembled a squad to play direct, counterattacking football and hired a manager to play attacking, possession-based football. I have no idea if De Boer will make it outside of Ajax, but I think it's fair to say we don't have that problem - in fact, we have literally the reverse problem.
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From what I've read of the situation, Palace had assembled a squad to play direct, counterattacking football and hired a manager to play attacking, possession-based football. I have no idea if De Boer will make it outside of Ajax, but I think it's fair to say we don't have that problem - in fact, we have literally the reverse problem.
Yep, as I said a couple of days ago, I think if we did a manager swap with them both teams would improve very quickly.
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
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Brentford are massively overachieving being competitive in this division. If they get relegated no one really blinks an eyelid just like when Burton go down this season.
I'd say Smith has done a steady job there like he's done at Walsall. Not amazing like Warburton getting them into the top 6 but two mid table finishes well clear of relegation with their transfer model is solid enough.
One outsider no-one is mentioning is Chris Wilder at Sheffield United, his win ratio last few years is off the scale at Northampton and Sheffield United and they've adapted well to this division.
A good mate of mine is a Sheffield United supporter. He's really bigged Wilder up. I'd take him at our place.
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He's a boyhood Sheffield United fan. Very unlikely he's going anywhere at the moment.
That Pep Clotet at Oxford looks interesting but very early days for him. Clement would have been a better pick than Bruce with hindsight. Someone who actually coaches the players and make them better would be nice.
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
This is why I think there's a lack of patience generally in football nowadays. Getting rid of a manager after 4 games really is ridiculous.
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Not really sure who I want but with every game that goes by all I know is that I don't want Bruce...
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
This is why I think there's a lack of patience generally in football nowadays. Getting rid of a manager after 4 games really is ridiculous.
Just another example of how money has ruined the game.
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I do not follow enough of football overseas and therefore not sure what various managers have done, style, methods etc.
What I do want, however, is a manager/coach that can implement the direction that Wyness spoke about the club wanting to go in. That means no stop gap solutions where the manager is only thinking of his own duration in the job.
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The best arguement foe keeping him now, is that it is unlikely that we will find a replacement that is good enough to turn this around.
I think this is a fair point and I am resigned to us becoming a second tier club.
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
This is why I think there's a lack of patience generally in football nowadays. Getting rid of a manager after 4 games really is ridiculous.
Yes it is however we on the other hand have given too long to our Managers.
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
This is why I think there's a lack of patience generally in football nowadays. Getting rid of a manager after 4 games really is ridiculous.
Yes it is however we on the other hand have given too long to our Managers.
The same would have been said about Bruce if we had let him go once he had failed last season, even though it is obvious now that would have been the right decision.
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
This is why I think there's a lack of patience generally in football nowadays. Getting rid of a manager after 4 games really is ridiculous.
Yes it is however we on the other hand have given too long to our Managers.
We gave Lambert far too long. I'm not too sure about the others.
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
This is why I think there's a lack of patience generally in football nowadays. Getting rid of a manager after 4 games really is ridiculous.
Just another example of how money has ruined the game.
Also social media & 24 hour access to news always looking for the next story, next thing to happen. Ahh, for the days of clubcall....
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The dumb thing about Palace sacking FDB (as I'm sure he's always referred to ;)) and replacing him with Hodgson (if indeed that's what they do), is that they should have just got Roy in to start with if they were just going to scrap De Boer's plans after 4 games. Think he deserved longer.
This is why I think there's a lack of patience generally in football nowadays. Getting rid of a manager after 4 games really is ridiculous.
Just another example of how money has ruined the game.
Also social media & 24 hour access to news always looking for the next story, next thing to happen. Ahh, for the days of clubcall....
0800 12 11 48
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Someone dismissed my shout of Stam based on "reading aren't so good at the moment" though they use far harder language.
However that's a silly comment as stam proved last season along can organise a team and get them in play offs. A penalty kick away and he would being touted more than David Wangnor who is Huddersfield boss , around not just premier league but European as the bat manager up and coming !
Stam quality and would be far more suitable to what we want to do that Bruce or much of the other listed on here.
This is by far best solution and also a very good suggestion if I do say myself.
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My main reason for not wanting Stam is the very superficial fact that I don't want anyone that's associated with Fergie around the club for a while after the shitfest we've seen under Bruce and McLeish.
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Have you seen how Reading play? They make about 50 passes between the back four and go nowhere.
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No Woy Hodgson in the poll?
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No Woy Hodgson in the poll?
He's going to Palace in the next 24 hours.
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No Woy Hodgson in the poll?
He's going to Palace in the next 24 hours.
at least they will find out if Benteke is any good at taking corners
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Have you seen how Reading play? They make about 50 passes between the back four and go nowhere.
They've done enough in the other half of the pitch to beat us comfortably the last 2 times we've played.
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Have you seen how Reading play? They make about 50 passes between the back four and go nowhere.
They've done enough in the other half of the pitch to beat us comfortably the last 2 times we've played.
Well if that's not reason enough to sign a new manager up i don't know what is :o
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As for Frank De Boer...
His is the shortest Premier League managerial tenure in terms of games, and the 47-year-old's past two jobs have lasted a combined 162 days.
He's the Messiah.
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As for Frank De Boer...
His is the shortest Premier League managerial tenure in terms of games, and the 47-year-old's past two jobs have lasted a combined 162 days.
He's the Messiah.
Sounds right up our street.
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As for Frank De Boer...
His is the shortest Premier League managerial tenure in terms of games, and the 47-year-old's past two jobs have lasted a combined 162 days.
He's the Messiah.
He's not the messiah. He's a naughty De Boer.
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As for Frank De Boer...
His is the shortest Premier League managerial tenure in terms of games, and the 47-year-old's past two jobs have lasted a combined 162 days.
He's the Messiah.
He's not the messiah. He's a naughty De Boer.
Oh , thats good.
As for FDB well Palace are smart. Giving failing managers more time is what clubs who want to get relegated do.
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Olof's team have shipped 8 goals in their last two games, within sight of the title Nailed on then...
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Why not Woy ?
We want someone steady to get us up playing reasonable football.
Short term appointment
The dynasty can come later
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He's going to Palace
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I said on the other thread. Don't think small. If Dingle-fucking-hampton, a club who had home gates in the 80s equivalent to most of our away followings at the moment, who have done fuck all since McCarthy was looking for Communists hiding under middle-American beds, before JFK had even chucked one up Ms Monroe, let alone got shot in the mush by Tonev on the Grassy Knoll, then we can attract better than Dean Smith. Or nobodies of questionable talent like that.
Manuel Pellegrini, as an example, would be a manger of pedigree who has the language and the ability. A bucket load of cash and the promise of more in May for him and lots in June-August to spend. Why not? He's kicking tyres at the moment.
Somebody like that, if we're going to drop Bruce, is where we should be aiming. Spend BIG on a proven manager for once. We never, ever seem to do this. Sometimes we get lucky with Taylor and Little, even Gregory had his moments, but was cheap.
But this squad is ridiculous for this league. Grealish, Kodjia, Adomah, McCormack all weren't even on the bench. Hogan, Snodgrass, Jedinak, Lansbury an Icelandic international with lovely hair, were ready and waiting to come on. It is absolutely criminal to be chugging along.
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I have seen reports this morning on Facebook - the Aston Villa Worldwide Group - that Paul Lambert is a candidate! They reckon with a big budget squad he might do a good job. Ugh!
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I have no doubt Sherwood wants to giv' it annuva' go too. There's no way that twat, TSM2, TSM1, Remi Garde etc are coming back.
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I hear David O'Leary is looking to get back into the game.
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As a quick fix to get us up I would take Sam Allardyce, just couldn't do any worse and at least he motivates players which ours desperately need!
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As a quick fix to get us up I would take Sam Allardyce, just couldn't do any worse and at least he motivates players which ours desperately need!
11 months ago people were writing the same thing but with Bruce's name in there.
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As a quick fix to get us up I would take Sam Allardyce, just couldn't do any worse and at least he motivates players which ours desperately need!
I wouldn't but it's moot as he has made it clear he is not interested in a job at present.
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I guess I'll get ridiculed for suggesting it but if West Ham are rumoured to be ready to try and tempt FSW as a replacement for Bilic, why shouldn't we have ago at tempting him by promising him some proper transfer funds if he gets us up?
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I guess I'll get ridiculed for suggesting it but if West Ham are rumoured to be ready to try and tempt FSW as a replacement for Bilic, why shouldn't we have ago at tempting him by promising him some proper transfer funds if he gets us up?
Tempting who? Bilic? And I give up. Who is FSW?
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I guess I'll get ridiculed for suggesting it but if West Ham are rumoured to be ready to try and tempt FSW as a replacement for Bilic, why shouldn't we have ago at tempting him by promising him some proper transfer funds if he gets us up?
Tempting who? Bilic? And I give up. Who is FSW?
Benitez. Not sure he fancies having to do the Championship thing all over again though.
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I think we can suggest who we like, and give perfectly rational reasons for them, however deep down we all know that when Bruce gets his P45 it'll be Moyes coming in...and in a year's time we'll be in the same situation as we are now. It's just such a Villa thing to do.
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I guess I'll get ridiculed for suggesting it but if West Ham are rumoured to be ready to try and tempt FSW as a replacement for Bilic, why shouldn't we have ago at tempting him by promising him some proper transfer funds if he gets us up?
Tempting who? Bilic? And I give up. Who is FSW?
Benitez. Not sure he fancies having to do the Championship thing all over again though.
Thanks for clearing that up mate.
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I think we can suggest who we like, and give perfectly rational reasons for them, however deep down we all know that when Bruce gets his P45 it'll be Moyes coming in...and in a year's time we'll be in the same situation as we are now. It's just such a Villa thing to do.
Scary but just the sort of lazy appointment the corporate old school clique bushitter would make.
I would rather keep Bruce.
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I hear David O'Leary is looking to get back into the game.
Haha. Oh dear.
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I have seen reports this morning on Facebook - the Aston Villa Worldwide Group - that Paul Lambert is a candidate! They reckon with a big budget squad he might do a good job. Ugh!
Double oh dear. That might put me off football for life.
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As a quick fix to get us up I would take Sam Allardyce, just couldn't do any worse and at least he motivates players which ours desperately need!
11 months ago people were writing the same thing but with Bruce's name in there.
Yep. To be honest if Bruce were to go soon then someone like Allardyce would be OK until the end of the season to have a shot at going up. If we don't go up this season then I think it is time to start again and look at building a long term plan based around the young players at the club. I think that at that point, we would have to accept as fans that our stay in the division might be longer than we'd hoped, but that the club needs to get it right and that it may take time. The likes of Terry, Agbonlahor, Hutton, Samba etc. should be gone at the end of this season, so we could rebuild properly. That would be the point to look at a manager who will buy into that vision and has a track record of bringing through young players.
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We've gone for tried and tested, up and coming, European, former players. No one with any credentials would look at this club twice now it's a career ender.
Might as well stick with Bruce eventually him and Clemenson will develop a game plan involving creative play and shooting at home. In about 10 years time when we've had a couple of failed play off campaigns, averaging 12k at home with Joey Barton in charge we'll look back fondly at these times.
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To be honest if Bruce were to go soon then someone like Allardyce would be OK until the end of the season to have a shot at going up.
You are Sam Allardyce. You are enjoying your retirement. You keep confirming you are retired. You have just turned down a PL club where you were successful last season. A basket case of a club comes knocking offering you a contract "until the end of the season" only because we want to go up, but we don't trust you long time enough to offer you a 3 year contract.
Why the chuff would you even bother returning the phone call?
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To be honest if Bruce were to go soon then someone like Allardyce would be OK until the end of the season to have a shot at going up.
You are Sam Allardyce. You are enjoying your retirement. You keep confirming you are retired. You have just turned down a PL club where you were successful last season. A basket case of a club comes knocking offering you a contract "until the end of the season" only because we want to go up, but we don't trust you long time enough to offer you a 3 year contract.
Why the chuff would you even bother returning the phone call?
The multi-million pound bonus on offer for success?
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He seems to be some sort of Sky football sage these days. Last night we had his rules for survival. What was it Mourinho said about 19th Century football?
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To be honest if Bruce were to go soon then someone like Allardyce would be OK until the end of the season to have a shot at going up.
You are Sam Allardyce. You are enjoying your retirement. You keep confirming you are retired. You have just turned down a PL club where you were successful last season. A basket case of a club comes knocking offering you a contract "until the end of the season" only because we want to go up, but we don't trust you long time enough to offer you a 3 year contract.
Why the chuff would you even bother returning the phone call?
You are Harry Redknapp. You are enjoying your retirement. You keep confirming you are retired. A real basket case, bottom of the toilet of a club comes knocking offering you a contract "until the end of the season" only because we want to stay up, but we don't trust you long time enough to offer you a 3 year contract.
Why the chuff would you even bother returning the phone call?
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He's just turned shown palace
IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE
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Redknapp wasn't really retired, he was just sacked. Allardyce retired from an actual job and has already ruled himself out of a return to Palace.
Wouldn't be amazed if he changes his mind at some point but doubt it will be over the coming days and weeks.
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Redknapp wasn't really retired, he was just sacked. Allardyce retired from an actual job and has already ruled himself out of a return to Palace.
Wouldn't be amazed if he changes his mind at some point but doubt it will be over the coming days and weeks.
Exactly.
Allardyce - if he really does want the money - he can sit on his hands for a bit longer as there'll be a queue of clubs at the wrong end of the PL table come November/December that'll be knocking on his door offering him a far better proposal than we can.
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Redknapp wasn't really retired, he was just sacked. Allardyce retired from an actual job and has already ruled himself out of a return to Palace.
Wouldn't be amazed if he changes his mind at some point but doubt it will be over the coming days and weeks.
Exactly.
Allardyce - if he really does want the money - he can sit on his hands for a bit longer as there'll be a queue of clubs at the wrong end of the PL table come November/December that'll be knocking on his door offering him a far better proposal than we can.
Allardyce wants very large glasses of wine. usually red but he's not fussed
Anyway.... come back Tim! ;D ;D
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In the last 10 years of football management Allardyce has a 36% win ratio. Am I missing something?
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In the last 10 years of football management Allardyce has a 36% win ratio. Am I missing something?
No I don't think you are
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In the last 10 years of football management Allardyce has a 36% win ratio. Am I missing something?
I certainly don't want him. I was just joining in FranzB's thought experiment.
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Frank De Boer?
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Lambert?? ffs
whats graham Turner up to ???
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In the last 10 years of football management Allardyce has a 36% win ratio. Am I missing something?
I certainly don't want him. I was just joining in FranzB's thought experiment.
There is always a list that however bad it is I wouldn't want them here. That list will have Warnock, Pullis, Pardew, Harry and Fat Sam on it. Oh and now Tim, as his name keeps resurfacing.
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Someone dismissed my shout of Stam based on "reading aren't so good at the moment" though they use far harder language.
However that's a silly comment as stam proved last season along can organise a team and get them in play offs. A penalty kick away and he would being touted more than David Wangnor who is Huddersfield boss , around not just premier league but European as the bat manager up and coming !
Stam quality and would be far more suitable to what we want to do that Bruce or much of the other listed on here.
This is by far best solution and also a very good suggestion if I do say myself.
I can imagine with the way Stam plays there would be a couple of large problems - the crowd & the fact only one of back four is comfortable with the ball.
After about the 4th pass across the back four going nowhere would generate a murmur of discontent by the 10th Stam would have earfulls of 'get it forward' yelled at him.
You need a back four & goalkeeper who are all happy to have the ball at their feet - we have a Terry who can and a bunch of others for whom the ball is a grenade.
I really wanted Reading to go up just to see how long they could survive with that tactic against the better players...not long would be my guess!
Plus....he actually thinks Bacuna is a good player!
He might turn out a great coach who knows but if he came in here tomorrow he couldn't get players to play his way until January
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I guess I'll get ridiculed for suggesting it but if West Ham are rumoured to be ready to try and tempt FSW as a replacement for Bilic, why shouldn't we have ago at tempting him by promising him some proper transfer funds if he gets us up?
Tempting who? Bilic? And I give up. Who is FSW?
Sorry as Passitsideways said it's "Fat Spanish Waiter" Benitez, and I was suggesting tempting him, not Bilic. Although the latter would be better than Bruce or Moyes and quite a few others on the list.
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In the last 10 years of football management Allardyce has a 36% win ratio. Am I missing something?
I certainly don't want him. I was just joining in FranzB's thought experiment.
There is always a list that however bad it is I wouldn't want them here. That list will have Warnock, Pullis, Pardew, Harry and Fat Sam on it. Oh and now Tim, as his name keeps resurfacing.
wow i could have written that you been peaking at my not at any price list
Bruce was on it as well so every chance we will be disappointed with the next great hope
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In the last 10 years of football management Allardyce has a 36% win ratio. Am I missing something?
I certainly don't want him. I was just joining in FranzB's thought experiment.
There is always a list that however bad it is I wouldn't want them here. That list will have Warnock, Pullis, Pardew, Harry and Fat Sam on it. Oh and now Tim, as his name keeps resurfacing.
wow i could have written that you been peaking at my not at any price list
Bruce was on it as well so every chance we will be disappointed with the next great hope
I thought Bruce was going to be a safe pair of hands. Oh wouldn't it be nice if the next manager can come in, establish an exciting system with the players we have so we don't have to "rebuild" and go again.
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Martin O'Neill is close to the end of this job with Eire not qualifying.
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With regards to the "rebuild" bit, I actually think the club/Round need to take responsibility here. RDM to Bruce, for example, suggests no 'identity' has been established and the whole system must be defined by the manager. It's nuts.
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Can we add Legion to the list please?
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Can we add, 'A potato on a stick', please?
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How many of the managers polled are a remote possibility?
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I have always liked Rodgers. But no chance he is going to leave the cushiest job in world football to join our cause.
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Well, just look at the bars. Of those with the most votes:
Bielsa, Fat Sam, Dyche, Tuchel and Wagner should be deleted as there's zero chance
Dean Smith is building a good career but is currently bottom of the league with no wins, has never played or managed at a big club, and I don't think has ever finished above ninth as a manager
Jokanovic would be the best candidate but I can't see why he'd come
Mellberg is a manager in the Swedish second division who wouldn't be on the list if he wasn't a former villa player
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the Villa gig would destroy Dean Smith.
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Rafa Benitez
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There are decent managers out there and some are unknown. Early days but Leeds look good when I've seen them. They have a manager Ive never heard of and several players who they have picked up for peanuts and again look decent
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Leeds got battered by the Noses second half, but found a way to win.
We were mince against Brentford, but Chester ought to have score to steal three points. We ought to have found ways before too. It seems however, we can only win when we click and don't use the confidence built in those games to take into say, Brentford where you think ok we have been poor, but you've not taken your chances, we only need one. Cheers and good night.
In fact it is confidence that plays a huge part in that, but I don't think the players are being used to their full potential, attacking wise that is.
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We were mince against Brentford and they would have been out of sight if we didn't spend £15m on their top striker who scored there for fun.
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I would go for Frank de Boer. He doesn't become a bad manager overnight. Did really well in Holland with rebuilding a side and getting success. To have more than a passing interest from Liverpool and Spurs and then getting the Milan job shows that he is highly regarded. Not sure what went wrong at Palace in such a short period of time. It would seem that off the field things affected performances.
He is available and would be the type of manager that might introduce modern football to Aston Villa.
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Well, just look at the bars. Of those with the most votes:
Bielsa, Fat Sam, Dyche, Tuchel and Wagner should be deleted as there's zero chance
Dean Smith is building a good career but is currently bottom of the league with no wins, has never played or managed at a big club, and I don't think has ever finished above ninth as a manager
Jokanovic would be the best candidate but I can't see why he'd come
Mellberg is a manager in the Swedish second division who wouldn't be on the list if he wasn't a former villa player
It's this kind of unambitious thinking that has helped get us into the mess in which we find ourselves. Had we thought like this when choosing Billy McNeill's successor, we might have been waiting since 1987, rather than 2016, for a chance of top-flight football.
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Worth pointing out it wasn't ambitious thinking that got SGT, he basically delivered himself tied up in a bow. IIRC the favourite before that was Dave Bassett.
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Maybe, but it still undermines the assertion that we couldn't attract anyone who has achieved decent success at a higher level when a manager who had recently been runner-up in League and FA Cup was delighted at the prospect of dropping a division to manage us.
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I would go for Frank de Boer. He doesn't become a bad manager overnight. Did really well in Holland with rebuilding a side and getting success. To have more than a passing interest from Liverpool and Spurs and then getting the Milan job shows that he is highly regarded. Not sure what went wrong at Palace in such a short period of time. It would seem that off the field things affected performances.
He is available and would be the type of manager that might introduce modern football to Aston Villa.
Doesn't sound unreasonable.
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De Boer would be afforded much more time to build something with us than he had at Inter or Palace. I'd be interested in that. There would be urgency and pressure with us, but not the panic that seems to engulf PL sides or the volatility of managing in Italy.
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De Boer would be afforded much more time to build something with us than he had at Inter or Palace. I'd be interested in that. There would be urgency and pressure with us, but not the panic that seems to engulf PL sides or the volatility of managing in Italy.
What style did De Boer try and implement at Palace? Alarming that they pulled the plug so rapidly.
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I almost feel that I should be giving myself a slap when I say it but Sam Alladyce. We need someone to come in and say, huh Aston Villa, they've been shit for years, I'm not overwhelmed I'll just go in and do my thing. I think he could be the man.
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Depending on how true this is, he'd either be a disaster or a masterstroke I reckon.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41229891
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I almost feel that I should be giving myself a slap when I say it but Sam Alladyce. We need someone to come in and say, huh Aston Villa, they've been shit for years, I'm not overwhelmed I'll just go in and do my thing. I think he could be the man.
Allardyce has retired. If he wanted to manage anyone, he wouldn't have left Palace.
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I'm pretty sure Allardyce will manage again, once he's had a break from the game. How long that break lasts depends on the offers he gets, a bit like MON before he came here.
I used to really dislike him but would now accept him as I think the job wouldn't overwhelm him and he'd get us up. The last two seasons he's joined clubs mid season and done enough in that time to salvage the season. As say a two year option, he'd do for me.
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I'm pretty sure Allardyce will manage again, once he's had a break from the game. How long that break lasts depends on the offers he gets, a bit like MON before he came here.
I used to really dislike him but would now accept him as I think the job wouldn't overwhelm him and he'd get us up. The last two seasons he's joined clubs mid season and done enough in that time to salvage the season. As say a two year option, he'd do for me.
He's done enough to save teams from relegation, that's a totally different job to earning a team promotion. What Bruce is doing with us could be effective if that was the aim, but to get promotion you have to win games and there is nothing in Fat Sam's record ever to suggest he's capable of the long sequences of winning football we'd need.
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Allardyce has a 36% win ratio in the last 10 years.
No thanks.
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I'm pretty sure Allardyce will manage again, once he's had a break from the game. How long that break lasts depends on the offers he gets, a bit like MON before he came here.
I used to really dislike him but would now accept him as I think the job wouldn't overwhelm him and he'd get us up. The last two seasons he's joined clubs mid season and done enough in that time to salvage the season. As say a two year option, he'd do for me.
He's done enough to save teams from relegation, that's a totally different job to earning a team promotion. What Bruce is doing with us could be effective if that was the aim, but to get promotion you have to win games and there is nothing in Fat Sam's record ever to suggest he's capable of the long sequences of winning football we'd need.
He got promoted through the playoffs back in 2012 with West Ham, who had the best squad in the league that season, but even that might be a tall order at this point.
Still haven't heard a reason why he'd bother with us though instead of staying in retirement.
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I believe Alladyce has got two promotions, one with Bolton and one with West Ham...?
Been a while ago but he has done it. I know there was a lot of ridicule on here when Pulis was suggested at the time of Sherwood. I think most of us would have been happy if he'd got us top half like he has with Albion, especially as Lerner was still here at that point.
My first choice would be Wagner, and give him plenty of time, but that's not going to happen at the moment. For the situation we have as a club right now I think Alladyce would be as good as most realistic targets even though I think he's a twat!
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
Are you his official spokesman?
If so I think you should make yourself a bit clearer, as you're leaving people guessing a bit.
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Allardyce has got a 36% win ratio.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
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Allardyce has got a 36% win ratio.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I wish you would, I really do.
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
Quite impressive that you know exactly what goes on in his mind.
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Its a big no to the fat Yam Yam from me.
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Allardyce has got a 36% win ratio.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I wish you would, I really do.
I'd happily do it, if it means shit like Bruce and Allardyce not being our manager for a moment longer.
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Ok, you bang your head repeatedly against the wall, real hard mind, and Villa sack Bruce and nick Wagner off Huddersfield. Sounds like a win, win, win to me.
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The Fulham Serbian fellow appears to be having a mince old time of it, especially considering they just needed the title handing to them now.
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The Fulham Serbian fellow appears to be having a mince old time of it, especially considering they just needed the title handing to them now.
He won't be coming here anyway, I've spoken to him on one of them fancy mind communication things like they had in Flash Gordon, and he's not interested so you can forget that one.
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
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Ok, you bang your head repeatedly against the wall, real hard mind, and Villa sack Bruce and nick Wagner off Huddersfield. Sounds like a win, win, win to me.
Hang on! Who said anything about "repeatedly" or "real hard"?
Look at the damage that has obviously done to you. No thanks.
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The be fair to CD, although this thread is pure supposition, I think it probably does make sense to rule out someone who's actually said he doesn't want to be a football manager any more.
Re. the candidates who are apparently unlikely because they're apparently too good: if we don't start looking beyond the obvious depressing carousel of has-beens and chancers, we are fucked for the foreseeable.
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Fat Sam has said he's retired and sounds like he means it, but would anyone really be surprised to see him as a manager again?
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Eddie Howe may be approachable
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Fat Sam has said he's retired and sounds like he means it, but would anyone really be surprised to see him as a manager again?
Well he said the other day it's a bit soon for him, and wouldn't really be looking before February. So doesn't sound like a man who isn't looking to come back. I'd rather we went for a different approach.
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
we don't have to but we probably will do as Wyness is our CEO
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Fat Sam has said he's retired and sounds like he means it, but would anyone really be surprised to see him as a manager again?
Not really, but if we don't take his self-imposed inavailability at face value (at least until his wife tells him to stop moping round the house and getting under her feet), we might as well start suggesting anyone who's not actually dead! Alex Ferguson, anyone?
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Difference is, Alex Ferguson taking a manager's job this season would be a surprise. I'd imagine the vast majority of us expect Allardyce to take another job.
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
Yep. And we found Garde, Wolves found Zenga, Cardiff 'found' Solskjær, West Brom found Pepe Mel, Fulham found Felix Magath and Rene Meulensteen.
It's not as easy as you think. I'd love the next Wagner, but we really are on the brink and the wrong appointment would see us relegated. It's a massive gamble.
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Eddie Howe may be approachable
We may have tempted him pre season but would have no chance now. He won't do the dirty on Bournemouth. Which is exactly why we should've binned Bruce in the summer as there's always a chance of attracting better managers then.
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I'd imagine the vast majority of us expect Allardyce to take another job.
It wouldn't surprise me either! But, for the purposes of this thread, it seems to me to make sense to assume that he's not a candidate, seeing as how we're pretty much agreed that we need someone the sooner the better and he's only been retired since May.
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I'd imagine the vast majority of us expect Allardyce to take another job.
It wouldn't surprise me either! But, for the purposes of this thread, it seems to me to make sense to assume that he's not a candidate, seeing as how we're pretty much agreed that we need someone the sooner the better and he's only been retired since May.
Come on James we need some insider info - any up and coming German managers worth taking a punt on?
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If we wanted him badly enough i'm pretty confident we'd get him, even next week. Hopefully we have more progressive candidates in mind than him though!
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
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I'd imagine the vast majority of us expect Allardyce to take another job.
It wouldn't surprise me either! But, for the purposes of this thread, it seems to me to make sense to assume that he's not a candidate, seeing as how we're pretty much agreed that we need someone the sooner the better and he's only been retired since May.
The Wyness and Round connection does worringly point in the direction of Moyes.
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
unless he turned Palace down because he'd already been sounded out for us
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
What's the matter, stakes too high? You sounded pretty sure earlier.
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Eddie Howe may be approachable
Probably if you just wanted his autograph
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
Only speculating, but there is of course the possibility that something happened behind the scenes at Palace that influenced his decision. If that was the case then it wouldn't really be a surprise that he turned it down again.
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Depends though on whether he liked it at Palace, or was unhappy enough there that it helped him decide to 'retire' as he was only there about 7 months before leaving.
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I'd imagine the vast majority of us expect Allardyce to take another job.
It wouldn't surprise me either! But, for the purposes of this thread, it seems to me to make sense to assume that he's not a candidate, seeing as how we're pretty much agreed that we need someone the sooner the better and he's only been retired since May.
The Wyness and Round connection does worringly point in the direction of Moyes.
Magic...
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It comes to something when i'd take Allardyce over Moyes. I just hope Wyness and co realise it isn't a straight choice between them.
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It's bound to be Terry
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It's bound to be Terry
Nailed on for the Wolves job, Terry's Old Gold.
*i'llgetmecoat*
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I think Moyes is one of those that's a good fit for 1 club, i.e. Everton. Wouldn't be keen on that one, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happened.
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I don't know who it should be but I know that even if we go on a good run now the majority will say it's inspite of Bruce and not because of him. I'd love to be part of a united club again where everyone is pushing in the same direction and the faith and link between team and support exists. It feels like it's been a long time since that.
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
Yep. And we found Garde, Wolves found Zenga, Cardiff 'found' Solskjær, West Brom found Pepe Mel, Fulham found Felix Magath and Rene Meulensteen.
It's not as easy as you think. I'd love the next Wagner, but we really are on the brink and the wrong appointment would see us relegated. It's a massive gamble.
Whereas going for a well-known, safe pair of hands like Bruce or McLeish completely takes that risk away and it's nothing more than a gentle stroll to good times and prosperity.
Is there a manager available to us that wouldn't constitute a gamble?
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It's true. I think that despite the apparent certainty some on here have about who would be good and who wouldn't (and who's retired, well certain ish) we really are at the 'fuck knows' stage after the last 6 appointments.
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
Yep. And we found Garde, Wolves found Zenga, Cardiff 'found' Solskjær, West Brom found Pepe Mel, Fulham found Felix Magath and Rene Meulensteen.
It's not as easy as you think. I'd love the next Wagner, but we really are on the brink and the wrong appointment would see us relegated. It's a massive gamble.
Whereas going for a well-known, safe pair of hands like Bruce or McLeish completely takes that risk away and it's nothing more than a gentle stroll to good times and prosperity.
Is there a manager available to us that wouldn't constitute a gamble?
It is annoying, isn't it, that every club who 'go foreign' and don't succeed are seen to have proven that managers from abroad constitute an enormous risk (probably because of their flighty, histrionic temperaments), while the legions of dull British managers can fail to inspire a thousand times, half-succeed once or twice and somehow earn a reputation for being 'reliable' or 'dependable' or (the absolute worst) 'the sensible choice'.
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Steve Round has worked under Maclaren, Southgate, Allardyce and Moyes.
Wyness has appointed the likes of Jimmy Calderwell (Aberdeen), Steve Paterson (Aberdeen), David Moyes (Everton), RDM (Villa) Steve Bruce (Villa).
Not really too much evidence there on face value of 'blue sky thinking' or the ability to think outside of the old boys club of ex-pros / old faces and bring in a new face to drive the Villa engine.
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
What's the matter, stakes too high? You sounded pretty sure earlier.
I've already said in a previous post that it's entirely possible that he'll go back into management at a later date, so why would I take that bet?
I maintain that he won't be taking any job in the near future... if his immediate plans included football management then why would he have left Palace?
I'll have a tenner with you that he's still unemployed at the end of October, if you like?
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Steve Round has worked under Maclaren, Southgate, Allardyce and Moyes.
Wyness has appointed the likes of Jimmy Calderwell (Aberdeen), Steve Paterson (Aberdeen), David Moyes (Everton), RDM (Villa) Steve Bruce (Villa).
Not really too much evidence there on face value of 'blue sky thinking' or the ability to think outside of the old boys club of ex-pros / old faces and bring in a new face to drive the Villa engine.
My hope is that's the list they come to Xia with, and Xia fires them too.
How out of all the clubs in English football have we ended up probably the biggest one to be so stuck in the past? Our potential measured against our actual achievement must be among the worst around, and yet we continue the same brainless policy.
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I'd imagine the vast majority of us expect Allardyce to take another job.
It wouldn't surprise me either! But, for the purposes of this thread, it seems to me to make sense to assume that he's not a candidate, seeing as how we're pretty much agreed that we need someone the sooner the better and he's only been retired since May.
Come on James we need some insider info - any up and coming German managers worth taking a punt on?
I don't know anything about the lower divisions... Hannes Wolf just got Stuttgart up and he's only 36 and only been in the job for a year. André Breitenreiter who's at Hannover 96 did well for Paderborn. We're not going to prise anyone away this early in the season, though.
I know it won't happen, but I genuinely believe we need someone like Tuchel: ambitious, available, successful, understands the pressure. Pissing about with the dinosaurs or taking a punt on an unknown is a risk we can't really afford to take... again.
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I maintain that he won't be taking any job in the near future... if his immediate plans included football management then why would he have left Palace?
Maybe he wasn't happy there? Not everyone does a Lambert and asks to be sacked numerous times, some just leave if they aren't happy and don't need the money.
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Steve Round has worked under Maclaren, Southgate, Allardyce and Moyes.
Wyness has appointed the likes of Jimmy Calderwell (Aberdeen), Steve Paterson (Aberdeen), David Moyes (Everton), RDM (Villa) Steve Bruce (Villa).
Not really too much evidence there on face value of 'blue sky thinking' or the ability to think outside of the old boys club of ex-pros / old faces and bring in a new face to drive the Villa engine.
Depressing really I have no faith in them at all to do anything other than appoint one of there own again
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
Yep. And we found Garde, Wolves found Zenga, Cardiff 'found' Solskjær, West Brom found Pepe Mel, Fulham found Felix Magath and Rene Meulensteen.
It's not as easy as you think. I'd love the next Wagner, but we really are on the brink and the wrong appointment would see us relegated. It's a massive gamble.
Whereas going for a well-known, safe pair of hands like Bruce or McLeish completely takes that risk away and it's nothing more than a gentle stroll to good times and prosperity.
Is there a manager available to us that wouldn't constitute a gamble?
It is annoying, isn't it, that every club who 'go foreign' and don't succeed are seen to have proven that managers from abroad constitute an enormous risk (probably because of their flighty, histrionic temperaments), while the legions of dull British managers can fail to inspire a thousand times, half-succeed once or twice and somehow earn a reputation for being 'reliable' or 'dependable' or (the absolute worst) 'the sensible choice'.
I think the 'old guard' are definitely being squeezed out of the top flight and in some cases the Championship as well.
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
Yep. And we found Garde, Wolves found Zenga, Cardiff 'found' Solskjær, West Brom found Pepe Mel, Fulham found Felix Magath and Rene Meulensteen.
It's not as easy as you think. I'd love the next Wagner, but we really are on the brink and the wrong appointment would see us relegated. It's a massive gamble.
Whereas going for a well-known, safe pair of hands like Bruce or McLeish completely takes that risk away and it's nothing more than a gentle stroll to good times and prosperity.
Is there a manager available to us that wouldn't constitute a gamble?
It is annoying, isn't it, that every club who 'go foreign' and don't succeed are seen to have proven that managers from abroad constitute an enormous risk (probably because of their flighty, histrionic temperaments), while the legions of dull British managers can fail to inspire a thousand times, half-succeed once or twice and somehow earn a reputation for being 'reliable' or 'dependable' or (the absolute worst) 'the sensible choice'.
I think the 'old guard' are definitely being squeezed out of the top flight and in some cases the Championship as well.
we are doing our best to keep the flag flying though
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If we wanted him badly enough i'm pretty confident we'd get him, even next week. Hopefully we have more progressive candidates in mind than him though!
You have to bloody well hope so!
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Terry with McLaren as number 2 is my outside bet at the moment.
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
What's the matter, stakes too high? You sounded pretty sure earlier.
I've already said in a previous post that it's entirely possible that he'll go back into management at a later date, so why would I take that bet?
I maintain that he won't be taking any job in the near future... if his immediate plans included football management then why would he have left Palace?
I'll have a tenner with you that he's still unemployed at the end of October, if you like?
You said earlier he was definately retired and suggested I was a fucking idiot in the process, this isn't about whether I think he'll be back before October.
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Just been having a look on the BBC website and there was an article on there about Andre Villas-Boas. Would he be an option if we are looking for a total rebuild? He's in China at the minute, but did a good job at Zenit a couple of years ago before leaving because of family reasons. At least he's suitably named!!
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He's retired. Not sure how many other times I need to explain this?
If he wanted to work in management, he would still be managing Palace. If he had had a change of heart since managing Palace, he would have gone back there when they sacked his replacement this week.
He has retired.
Banging. Head. Brick. Wall.
I'll have a £10 to the site bet with you he's back in management before the end of the season
I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
What's the matter, stakes too high? You sounded pretty sure earlier.
I've already said in a previous post that it's entirely possible that he'll go back into management at a later date, so why would I take that bet?
I maintain that he won't be taking any job in the near future... if his immediate plans included football management then why would he have left Palace?
I'll have a tenner with you that he's still unemployed at the end of October, if you like?
You said earlier he was definately retired and suggested I was a fucking idiot in the process, this isn't about whether I think he'll be back before October.
He has definitely retired. Plenty of people go back on their retirements though, Mayweather for instance.
Whether he does so isn't really of any significance to the debate at hand... which is who should manage Villa in the event that Bruce is no longer our manager in the near future.
Allardyce has retired and therefore is unavailable at present. It's possible he will reverse his decision at some point but I've no inclination, and you've no evidence, to suggest that it will be anytime soon.
It is entirely about whether he will be available by the end of October. If we wait much longer than that before replacing Steve Bruce then who knows which managers will be available at that point? It's not relevant to the debate at hand.
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So, whether you want him or not, it's not impossible that he could rock up at Villa park in the next few weeks then?
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I think it's entirely possible that he will miss management and come out of retirement by the end of the season.
However, I think that if he was planning to take a job anytime in the more immediate future, he'd have already taken the Palace job.
If we wait till April to sack Bruce, he might be a contender. Assuming we get rid of the Potato of Sadness in the coming weeks, he isn't.
For goodness' sake man, he's bloody retired. Don't you understand that? He's not coming back into the game.
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If we phoned Allardyce today and offered him £3m to become our manager for the rest of the season, do you think he'd say yes or no? Obviously it's guesswork but what would your educated guess be? Mine is he'd be our manager.
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So, whether you want him or not, it's not impossible that he could rock up at Villa park in the next few weeks then?
It's not "impossible", in the same way that it's not impossible that we could beat Barnsley twelve-nil as the first of a nine-hundred game winning spree that sees Steve Bruce voted Manager of the Millennium, while I join the Conservative Party and Peterwithesshin says "I can't really be bothered watching any more zombie films".
I just think it is so unlikely that he will be available in the coming weeks that it isn't worthy of debating his suitability for the post.
I acknowledge that I have somewhat defeated my own object by adding to the bloody debate, though...
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If we phoned Allardyce today and offered him £3m to become our manager for the rest of the season, do you think he'd say yes or no? Obviously it's guesswork but what would your educated guess be? Mine is he'd be our manager.
I expect he'd say "no" as he could easily have got that amount if he'd taken the Palace job this week.
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most. Also Hull found Silva so tbey are out there. We don't have to go down the Moyes, Pardew,Allardyce route.
Yep. And we found Garde, Wolves found Zenga, Cardiff 'found' Solskjær, West Brom found Pepe Mel, Fulham found Felix Magath and Rene Meulensteen.
It's not as easy as you think. I'd love the next Wagner, but we really are on the brink and the wrong appointment would see us relegated. It's a massive gamble.
Exactly. And this is the tip of the iceberg
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To be honest I've been sitting here laughing hysterically at your cocksure bravado for a good while now and it has more than made up for the slightly offensive nature of your original post. For amusing me on an otherwise boring day at work, I thank you.
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It would have to be an unbelievably bad appointment to see us relegated. And I don't think the decision is that difficult. Identify a manager who was won loads of matches, at the highest level possible. Offer him lots of money. Await promotion.
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To be honest I've been sitting here laughing hysterically at your cocksure bravado for a good while now and it has more than made up for the slightly offensive nature of your original post. For amusing me on an otherwise boring day at work, I thank you.
Apologies if any post came across as offensive... It was directed at the sheer number of posts discussing Allardyce and not you specifically.
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It would have to be an unbelievably bad appointment to see us relegated. And I don't think the decision is that difficult. Identify a manager who was won loads of matches, at the highest level possible. Offer him lots of money. Await promotion.
Well it worked last year. Simples
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To be honest I've been sitting here laughing hysterically at your cocksure bravado for a good while now and it has more than made up for the slightly offensive nature of your original post. For amusing me on an otherwise boring day at work, I thank you.
Apologies if any post came across as offensive... It was directed at the sheer number of posts discussing Allardyce and not you specifically.
No problem :-)
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Okay, £5m, £10m, £30m. He's either retired so will turn them all down, or is really just sort of retired but open to the right offer. Or if Arsenal sack Wenger tomorrow and offer him the job, will he stay retired or be the new Arsenal manager? I know it's taking it to extremes but I think he's sort of retired, not desperate for a job but will take a job he deems the right one, be that wages, right club, or both. And he'd take it tomorrow.
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Di Matteo hadn't won loads of matches, at the highest level possible. He had probably won (guesswork) about twenty games against Premier League or elite European opposition.
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I'm awarding myself a trophy for Worst Attempt to Prevent Further Debate on a Topic.
Yay, go me.🏆
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I'm awarding myself a trophy for Worst Attempt to Prevent Further Debate on a Topic.
Yay, go me.🏆
Only trophy we'll be seeing around here this year!
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most.
How many failed attempts have they had at doing just that??
The day we hold Leeds up as a paradigm to follow is the day we truly are doomed.
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Leeds are on their 9th full time manager since they sacked Grayson early 2012. 2 lasted 6 games and another lasted 9.
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most.
How many failed attempts have they had at doing just that??
The day we hold Leeds up as a paradigm to follow is the day we truly are doomed.
This. Plus they've played SEVEN matches. Lets see if he's still a decent manager after 46
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Sam worships at the alter of wealth - he was trousering Midas- like riches from the FA but still wasn't averse to a few hundred thousand on the side in The Telegraph sting. With him money doesn't talk it swears ; offer him enough and he'll come running
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Leeds seemed to have done some searching and found what appears to be a decent manager who was unknown to most.
How many failed attempts have they had at doing just that??
The day we hold Leeds up as a paradigm to follow is the day we truly are doomed.
Exactly - the law of averages dictates that they'll end up with someone half decent if they play the numbers game.
Quick wiki check tells me they've had 22 managers since O'Leary left, 15 years ago. And probably as many owners. In fact, they're just about the only club that make Villa look like a steady ship
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You don't have to use Leeds as an example. I'm sure there's plenty of recent examples of Championship clubs making a good hire after thinking outside the box a little. Wagner is obviously the big example, but looking back, Jokanovic was initially hired at Watford after having being sacked at Levski Sofia and Hercules in quick succession; Karanka was hired based off his work as an assistant at Madrid, having not been first-team manager anywhere.
Obviously there have been plenty of flops as well - Zenga, Montanier, etc. from just last season - but that's still not the greatest reason to just stick to the tried and tested market.
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Quite. There really is no guarantee of anything as far as managers go.
Some need to spend loads of money, some need the right coach, some need a Director of Football, some want to coach, some are young and hungry, some understand tradition, some don't give a toss, and it goes on. I've no doubt that a number of our failed managers would have worked given the right circumstances, or the right structure.
Look at Swansea, they had a series of what you'd call successful managers but they were inheriting a system that worked and could add a little something of their own to it. That's what the Villa Engine is all about. The trick for us is to find the right person to start it all off.
I genuinely thought Bruce could do that for a while, but having watched last night's increasingly desperate changes in formation and position for the players, Davies and Adomah being shuffled for example, and I'm really not sure he's got the bottle.
We need to get some confidence from somewhere, the fans need something to enjoy and the reality is there has been far too little of that for a long time.
Anyway, I'd offer it to Alex Ferguson.
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What about Marcelo Gallardo, current manager of River Plate and tipped to be the next Diego Simeone? A bit of a punt, admittedly.
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Quite. There really is no guarantee of anything as far as managers go.
Some need to spend loads of money, some need the right coach, some need a Director of Football, some want to coach, some are young and hungry, some understand tradition, some don't give a toss, and it goes on. I've no doubt that a number of our failed managers would have worked given the right circumstances, or the right structure.
Look at Swansea, they had a series of what you'd call successful managers but they were inheriting a system that worked and could add a little something of their own to it. That's what the Villa Engine is all about. The trick for us is to find the right person to start it all off.
I genuinely thought Bruce could do that for a while, but having watched last night's increasingly desperate changes in formation and position for the players, Davies and Adomah being shuffled for example, and I'm really not sure he's got the bottle.
We need to get some confidence from somewhere, the fans need something to enjoy and the reality is there has been far too little of that for a long time.
Anyway, I'd offer it to Alex Ferguson.
Ferguson! Interesting shout. He certainly couldn't be any worse than the current incumbent.
How about Gus Hiddink, Chris Coleman, O' Neil the Northern Ireland manager, or Mancini?
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What about Marcelo Gallardo, current manager of River Plate and tipped to be the next Diego Simeone? A bit of a punt, admittedly.
He's looking to coach in Europe but will only be available in December when his contract ends.
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I'm awarding myself a trophy for Worst Attempt to Prevent Further Debate on a Topic.
Yay, go me.🏆
Only trophy we'll be seeing around here this year!
especially now our award winning groundsmans fucked off
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I remember when he won that award, the whole of the Barton's was going crazy. Halcyon days, we thought they'd go on forever.
We were wrong.
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SKY BREAKING NEWS -
just in from Aston Villa - they are to appeal the Lansbury sending off
oh do fuck of getting my hopes up (although Natalie Sawyer is awesome today)
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Regardless of your views on his retirement or not, Allardyce is not the answer. He was the answer for a couple of years when we appointed Garde and Sherwood. Organise. Stabilise. Piss off in favour of someone more attacking.
We can't bore our way out of this league. We have to make use of the attacking talent at our disposal and play high energy, front foot football.
This would ideally be with a manager with a modern approach, used to developing youngsters and who won't shit a brick at the expectations here.
There is nothing wrong with an old fashioned win at home and draw away approach but you have to give yourself a chance by attacking.
Hoping not to concede away is why our record on the road under Bruce is so bloody dreadful. Three away wins in his entire tenure. Deary me.
It strikes me that the old school British managers are great at grinding results out but more suited to doing so in the top flight where you expect to be up against it. That isn't going to work to get you up.
Go and fetch De Boer. I would bet a fair bit that Wyness will go for Moyes mind.
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i always felt that Randy's reign ended in abject failure because of the people he employed,
this was his shout, he chose them and gave them a free hand especially in the later years as he wasn't hands on, it was the best gig many of them will ever have because there was little or no outside interference,
and they all fucked up every last one of them, and that's still down to Lerner because they were his chosen ones, all of them not just managers
so we have Bruce, Wyness and Round we know little about the new owner but we like him but lets face it with at least two of those choices its Lerner all over again
investment, ideas, philosophies, plans projects and anything to do with engines will all be totally irrelevant and pointless unless he gets his picks in those 3 key area's spot on
unfortunately for all his business acumen he's made some massive mistakes already and that's worrying
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Regardless of your views on his retirement or not, Allardyce is not the answer. He was the answer for a couple of years when we appointed Garde and Sherwood. Organise. Stabilise. Piss off in favour of someone more attacking.
We can't bore our way out of this league. We have to make use of the attacking talent at our disposal and play high energy, front foot football.
This would ideally be with a manager with a modern approach, used to developing youngsters and who won't shit a brick at the expectations here.
There is nothing wrong with an old fashioned win at home and draw away approach but you have to give yourself a chance by attacking.
Hoping not to concede away is why our record on the road under Bruce is so bloody dreadful. Three away wins in his entire tenure. Deary me.
It strikes me that the old school British managers are great at grinding results out but more suited to doing so in the top flight where you expect to be up against it. That isn't going to work to get you up.
Go and fetch De Boer. I would bet a fair bit that Wyness will go for Moyes mind.
Regardless of your views on his retirement or not, Allardyce is not the answer. He was the answer for a couple of years when we appointed Garde and Sherwood. Organise. Stabilise. Piss off in favour of someone more attacking.
We can't bore our way out of this league. We have to make use of the attacking talent at our disposal and play high energy, front foot football.
This would ideally be with a manager with a modern approach, used to developing youngsters and who won't shit a brick at the expectations here.
There is nothing wrong with an old fashioned win at home and draw away approach but you have to give yourself a chance by attacking.
Hoping not to concede away is why our record on the road under Bruce is so bloody dreadful. Three away wins in his entire tenure. Deary me.
It strikes me that the old school British managers are great at grinding results out but more suited to doing so in the top flight where you expect to be up against it. That isn't going to work to get you up.
Go and fetch De Boer. I would bet a fair bit that Wyness will go for Moyes mind.
One can hope that in that scenario, Wyness wanting Moyes and Dr Tone wanting De Boer, the good Dr tells Wyness to fuck off and close the door behind him!
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As much as I want us to hire the next Ron Saunders, I would take any manager who gets us out of this meek, glad-to-be-at-this-level mentality. A Sherwood who knows what a defence is would be a start.
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Go and fetch De Boer. I would bet a fair bit that Wyness will go for Moyes mind.
One can hope that in that scenario, Wyness wanting Moyes and Dr Tone wanting De Boer, the good Dr tells Wyness to fuck off and close the door behind him!
The idea of De Boer turning up with a point to prove works for me.
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The BBC article suggests an aloof Dutch RDM who created a Lambert bomb squad in under two months. Impressive.
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The BBC article suggests an aloof Dutch RDM who created a Lambert bomb squad in under two months. Impressive.
What he did at Ajax suggests a bloke with confidence in his ability, who can deal with big expectations, is tactically astute and can nurture the kids.
Don't let the door hit you on the arse Steve.
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Ajax is a unique club, a bit like Barca
They produce countless players and coaches steeped in a specific way of playing. They often find it harder to coach elsewhere - not always of course
Massive risk for me
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A club he knew the very fabric of. Much like Moyes is a busted flush, there's every chance De Boer is after successive failures.
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So are we going to get to 100 pages without a genuinely impressive and obtainable option here?
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Sherwood would actually make a great number 2 if he was not so it for himself that he would undermine the boss to get the gig.
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Who would you suggest then, Matt? Do you honestly think Bruce is the best option we have?
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I disagree. His role at Swindon didn't work out too well. He's best kept nowhere near our club.
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Depending on how true this is, he'd either be a disaster or a masterstroke I reckon.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41229891
Blimey, someone had some pretty specific intel there.
Reading between the lines, De Boer was probably used to having a pretty ajax-like structure at ajax, with Cocu (?) having a hands-on involvement and also their established training/youth system. All he had to do was coach the first team. Whereas in the UK, despite dougie freedman, the manager is typically responsible for a larger number roles at more levels of the club.
As Villa are more Inter than Ajax I'd expect him to fail again based on that article.
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The Palace players alllegedly found De Boer 'weird'. In other words he asked a bunch of cloggers, used to Allardyce etc, to try and pass the ball and they didn't have a clue what he was on about.
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Sherwood would actually make a great number 2
I've always thought of him as a complete number 2.
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From that article there are 2 that I think reflect really badly on the club, the bit about not sticking to formations and the bit about the involvement of the chairman in the team. Aside from that most of it seems to be that they wanted someone who would do exactly as he was told and pick the team that the board wanted.
As for how he'd do I think if we want to go with the whole Engine idea and we've been working to setup that sort of structure he'd be the right sort of manager to be at the top. It is slightly concerning that he had a bad time at Inter but I wouldn't judge him on his time at Palace, it sounds very much like they didn't ever really want him and didn't do much to hide the fact.
Dante, Cocu is at PSV not Ajax and has done a very good job with them.
Matt you keep saying there are no impressive and obtainable options but it appears that your criteria for the latter is very strictly limited to not include most of the more impressive options. I agree that if we have a narrow search of 'championship experience' and out of work then the options are pretty shitty but if that's the approach the board would take then Wyness and Round are a bigger problem than Bruce and I don't think we can say that for certain just yet.
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Sherwood would actually make a great number 2
I've always thought of him as a complete number 2.
Well yes. It's what stops him actually being any good. But her has traits that would suit the role. Being a self absorbed slopey shouldered shit bag is his weakness.
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What was the story about Tuchel leaving Dortmund? Their results weren't that bad, considering the last season with Klopp, were they? And the story since, for that matter. I don't think his record is *that* good that he can simply sit and wait for a top club to come in for him.
If we offered him a 'top club' wage - like most english clubs do compared to europe - then he might be tempted, surely?
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I'm pretty sure Allardyce will manage again, once he's had a break from the game. How long that break lasts depends on the offers he gets, a bit like MON before he came here.
I used to really dislike him but would now accept him as I think the job wouldn't overwhelm him and he'd get us up. The last two seasons he's joined clubs mid season and done enough in that time to salvage the season. As say a two year option, he'd do for me.
He's done enough to save teams from relegation, that's a totally different job to earning a team promotion. What Bruce is doing with us could be effective if that was the aim, but to get promotion you have to win games and there is nothing in Fat Sam's record ever to suggest he's capable of the long sequences of winning football we'd need.
He got Bolton and West Ham out of the championship and as for long sequences of winning football did he not set a league record points total when he won a title at Notts County?
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If we accept we're not going up this year maybe get Frank DeBoer in for a long term repair job?
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FDB?
Someone will have to explain that logic in that one. Failed at his last two jobs so would be a perfect fit to come in a turn around a club that's been in decline for about 7/8 years
No thanks.
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FDB?
Someone will have to explain that logic in that one. Failed at his last two jobs so would be a perfect fit to come in a turn around a club that's been in decline for about 7/8 years
No thanks.
He failed at Inter, I don't think you can say anyone has succeeded or failed when they're at a club for less than 3 months, he was just a bad fit at Palace.
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Palace were fools to appoint a manager they knew would need time to coach Pardew and Allardyce out of them and then sack him after four matches but equally why do people think he would be an ideal appointment for a team that has been coached by Sherwood, Lambert, Bruce etc and are a worse side than Palace?
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In fact he only had a similar amount of time at Inter, coming in right at the end of pre-season. I'm not saying he isn't a risk but given we want to go down the route of having a style that runs through the club a manager who has been successful in that environment would be worth looking at.
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What was the story about Tuchel leaving Dortmund? Their results weren't that bad, considering the last season with Klopp, were they? And the story since, for that matter. I don't think his record is *that* good that he can simply sit and wait for a top club to come in for him.
If we offered him a 'top club' wage - like most english clubs do compared to europe - then he might be tempted, surely?
His problem seems to be that he's incredibly highly strung. He fell out with Dortmund's scouts, board and players at various times during his tenure. He describes himself as someone whose impatience got in the way of his work and made him bad-tempered... I'd still want him at Villa!
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The fact he had a very short spells at Inter and Palace surely tells you how bad he must have been ?
Tells me that behind the scenes it was obvious very early on they'd made a massive error of judgement appointing him.
We currently have a bloke in charge with HUGE experience in this league, promotions (one of which was very recently) and a rather expensively assembled squad. And even he can't turn this sinking ship around by the looks of it. Football hasn't completely changed in two years as far as i can see, in fact it still exactly the same as before.
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What was the story about Tuchel leaving Dortmund? Their results weren't that bad, considering the last season with Klopp, were they? And the story since, for that matter. I don't think his record is *that* good that he can simply sit and wait for a top club to come in for him.
If we offered him a 'top club' wage - like most english clubs do compared to europe - then he might be tempted, surely?
His problem seems to be that he's incredibly highly strung. He fell out with Dortmund's scouts, board and players at various times during his tenure. He describes himself as someone whose impatience got in the way of his work and made him bad-tempered... I'd still want him at Villa!
With a temperament like that I doubt he'd survive a season, that's meteorological not football.
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I really do believe its time for a fresh approach. I'm certainly possibly wrong, but I don't see any manager sorting this mess out anytime soon - the squad is nowhere near as strong as people make out, and we have been saying the same things for too many years.
Bring in a young manager, bring in our youngsters and sign up and coming from the lower leagues (look at Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Brighton for the template), and while we go backwards for a couple years, concentrate on restoring the foundations upon which this club can build for the future.
The short term panic is literally forcing us ever deeper into the shit, financially, reputationally, and from a playing style perspective. Its got to change
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Appoint some mentalist bastard please. Full stop.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gCmF9Q/Sergente_Maggiore_Hartman.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gCmF9Q)
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Football hasn't completely changed in two years as far as i can see, in fact it still exactly the same as before.
Same shit, different division.
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I really do believe its time for a fresh approach. I'm certainly possibly wrong, but I don't see any manager sorting this mess out anytime soon - the squad is nowhere near as strong as people make out, and we have been saying the same things for too many years.
Bring in a young manager, bring in our youngsters and sign up and coming from the lower leagues (look at Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Brighton for the template), and while we go backwards for a couple years, concentrate on restoring the foundations upon which this club can build for the future.
The short term panic is literally forcing us ever deeper into the shit, financially, reputationally, and from a playing style perspective. Its got to change
We are facing that reality this summer if we don't go up.
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The fact he had a very short spells at Inter and Palace surely tells you how bad he must have been ?
Tells me that behind the scenes it was obvious very early on they'd made a massive error of judgement appointing him.
We currently have a bloke in charge with HUGE experience in this league, promotions (one of which was very recently) and a rather expensively assembled squad. And even he can't turn this sinking ship around by the looks of it. Football hasn't completely changed in two years as far as i can see, in fact it still exactly the same as before.
Perhaps it might be about how Palace is being run. Perhaps that is why Allardyce didn't want to carry on.
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I think we have run out of fresh approaches. MON, popular choice with proven track record. Houllier, excellant CV and a more cosmopolitan approach. TSM, a man who had a fine playing career (whilst picking things up from Ferguson), a good spell in charge of Rangers and his country and even managed to win a cup with SHA. Lambert, the new SGT based on promotions and a good season in the PL. Plus his experience playing for Dortmund getting his coaching badges in Germany. Sherwood, young and hungry. Garde, promising young foreign coach. RDM, CL winner with Chelsea and more relevant to us a Championship promotion winner. Then Bruce with a decent track record of promotion to the PL and surviving in it.
Maybe we need to think outside the box like the new Dr Who or the potential next James Bond.
Appoint a woman or even (and I know this sounds crazy) a black person.
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The fact he had a very short spells at Inter and Palace surely tells you how bad he must have been ?
Tells me that behind the scenes it was obvious very early on they'd made a massive error of judgement appointing him.
We currently have a bloke in charge with HUGE experience in this league, promotions (one of which was very recently) and a rather expensively assembled squad. And even he can't turn this sinking ship around by the looks of it. Football hasn't completely changed in two years as far as i can see, in fact it still exactly the same as before.
Perhaps it might be about how Palace is being run. Perhaps that is why Allardyce didn't want to carry on.
also Inter are currently on their 3rd manager since De Boer, in 10 months. I'm not absolving him of fault but I doubt anyone would write off most of managers who've had a couple of months at Leeds because we all know that the chairman is a fucking nutjob, right now it's hard to not think that Inter and Palace are lined up to have a similar period of constant churn.
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Appoint a woman
I'd be all for giving it to Cherie Lunghi. I'd probably consider her for the Villa job as well.
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The fact he had a very short spells at Inter and Palace surely tells you how bad he must have been ?
Tells me that behind the scenes it was obvious very early on they'd made a massive error of judgement appointing him.
We currently have a bloke in charge with HUGE experience in this league, promotions (one of which was very recently) and a rather expensively assembled squad. And even he can't turn this sinking ship around by the looks of it. Football hasn't completely changed in two years as far as i can see, in fact it still exactly the same as before.
Why would that suggest how bad he must have been? Sorry, but that post is absolute bollocks.
Your jumps from black to white, with nowt inbetween, take some catching up with.
You have apparently jumped to a thousand conclusions based on a couple of jobs he wasn't right for and decided our current dullArd is the only way forward instead. It's quite frankly bonkers.
And football has changed. Watch the goals in the (spit) Champions League this week. All of the fuckers attack. You don't get promoted with 1.2 points per game.
They don't trust Bruce to deliver automatic promotion now. So why keep him? Why is someone that might use our players to their ability such an outrageous concept to you?
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Palace were fools to appoint a manager they knew would need time to coach Pardew and Allardyce out of them and then sack him after four matches but equally why do people think he would be an ideal appointment for a team that has been coached by Sherwood, Lambert, Bruce etc and are a worse side than Palace?
Fair argument. This one had a track record of developing youngsters and won't make me want to cry when I watch the shit football we turn out would be the counter.
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The fact he had a very short spells at Inter and Palace surely tells you how bad he must have been ?
Tells me that behind the scenes it was obvious very early on they'd made a massive error of judgement appointing him.
We currently have a bloke in charge with HUGE experience in this league, promotions (one of which was very recently) and a rather expensively assembled squad. And even he can't turn this sinking ship around by the looks of it. Football hasn't completely changed in two years as far as i can see, in fact it still exactly the same as before.
Right, so apparently it's anyone but the manager's fault that things are shit only applies to our club, whereas it just has to be some problem on the part of De Boer that brought about his sackings at Inter and Palace.
I don't think De Boer would do us any good, but the mental gymnastics you've applied to defending Bruce both here and previously has been astounding.
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apart from one evanescent spell in the Spring when we won 7 out of 9 or something,Steve's looked hopelessly incapable of turning us into a cohesive, competitive side.
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The fact he had a very short spells at Inter and Palace surely tells you how bad he must have been ?
Tells me that behind the scenes it was obvious very early on they'd made a massive error of judgement appointing him.
We currently have a bloke in charge with HUGE experience in this league, promotions (one of which was very recently) and a rather expensively assembled squad. And even he can't turn this sinking ship around by the looks of it. Football hasn't completely changed in two years as far as i can see, in fact it still exactly the same as before.
Why would that suggest how bad he must have been? Sorry, but that post is absolute bollocks.
Your jumps from black to white, with nowt inbetween, take some catching up with.
You have apparently jumped to a thousand conclusions based on a couple of jobs he wasn't right for and decided our current dullArd is the only way forward instead. It's quite frankly bonkers.
And football has changed. Watch the goals in the (spit) Champions League this week. All of the fuckers attack. You don't get promoted with 1.2 points per game.
They don't trust Bruce to deliver automatic promotion now. So why keep him? Why is someone that might use our players to their ability such an outrageous concept to you?
Load of waffle mate. But you're entitled to it of course.
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Oscar Garcia? - http://sportwitness.co.uk/aston-villa-already-make-contact-ligue-1-manager-pressure-steve-bruce-increases/
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Oscar Garcia? - http://sportwitness.co.uk/aston-villa-already-make-contact-ligue-1-manager-pressure-steve-bruce-increases/
dont remember him at Watford
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but its a name no one mentioned which proves there are managers out there and they dont have to be the old school dinosaur at al p,s not that I can see him coming
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Oscar Garcia? - http://sportwitness.co.uk/aston-villa-already-make-contact-ligue-1-manager-pressure-steve-bruce-increases/
His record is okay-ish but he would represent something very different and perhaps refreshing; as long as the dressing-room twats don't do to him what they seem to have done to most of our managers in the last few years.
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Oscar Garcia? - http://sportwitness.co.uk/aston-villa-already-make-contact-ligue-1-manager-pressure-steve-bruce-increases/
dont remember him at Watford
Didn't last very long because of health problems. See also Gerard Houllier.
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I think Garcia's record looks to be more than ok, no?
Hes only just started his current job though- although he does seem to have a habit of not hanging around long sometimes
Can't say i know him too well but this has piqued my interest at least
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Oscar Garcia? - http://sportwitness.co.uk/aston-villa-already-make-contact-ligue-1-manager-pressure-steve-bruce-increases/
dont remember him at Watford
There was an interview with the Watford chairman or chief exec, the other week which I thought was interesting.
He was saying that in modern football it is now expected that the manager will change every few seasons. SoWatford have built a structure of management and coaches that remains in place, to minimise disruption at the club when the inevitable happens.
That's why they have been so successful in changing mangers and not imploding.
It's definitely the model we should be looking at.
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Oscar Garcia? - http://sportwitness.co.uk/aston-villa-already-make-contact-ligue-1-manager-pressure-steve-bruce-increases/
Hell yeah.
It’s perhaps a bit too early to be talking about managerial changes.
No, no it is not.
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No thanks we've already gone French.
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No thanks we've already gone French.
Erm, he's Spanish, Monty.
Turned down the DoF job at Barcelona in the spring but signed a 2 year contact with St Etienne in the summer.
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I might be wrong, but I read Monty's post as being slightly parodic.
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Yes, somewhat. I actually like the sound of him but from Rudy's summary there I'm not sure he'd come.
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Never heard of him but he must have something about him with his win rates of approx 70% at 2 clubs and approx 40% at BHA. Quite an impressive first impression.
Linky thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_Garc%C3%ADa_Junyent)
edit:
Interesting he made the playoffs in his first and only season in the Championship (W19 D15 L12 +15 72pts):
The 2013–14 Season saw Brighton outside the play-offs for much of the season until a late run of good form put them into the play-off places and on the final day of the season, Brighton beat Nottingham Forest 2–1 with a last minute winner from Leonardo Ulloa securing a 6th-place finish. Brighton faced Derby for the play-off semi-final and lost 2–1 at home in the 1st leg. Brighton lost the 2nd leg 4–1 and crashed out of the play-offs for a second year in a row. Garcia resigned as manager not so long afterwards.
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I've heard a rumour - so how true it is is anyone's guess - thst Chris Coleman has been sounded out if Wales don't make the World Cup qualifying play-offs.
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No thanks
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No thanks
You're not related to Bruce, are you?
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No thanks
You're not related to Bruce, are you?
No. I'm intrigued by that Garcia bloke and would definitely take the Fulham manager
But Chris Coleman has very little track record in league football
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I think we give Koeman a miss
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I've heard a rumour - so how true it is is anyone's guess - thst Chris Coleman has been sounded out if Wales don't make the World Cup qualifying play-offs.
Nooooooo. F*ck off. (Not you Exeter77)
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I think we give Koeman a miss
Not if we want to see lot of goals :)
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I've heard a rumour - so how true it is is anyone's guess - thst Chris Coleman has been sounded out if Wales don't make the World Cup qualifying play-offs.
Nooooooo. F*ck off. (Not you Exeter77)
That was pretty much my reaction when the guy told me.
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I like the sound of this Oscar fella, that could be exciting, or we could turn him into a croc of shit.
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I can't se him coming tho - only been manager of st etienne for four games and they're in ligue un. We're 17th in ligue deux and can't spend any money unless we sell; and will probably have to sell quite a lot next summer unless we go up
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We've got the best squad in the division though guys. 😏
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Rumours on Twitter that we are sounding out st ettienes Oscar Garcia. Never heard of him but he's not called Bruce, Pardew, Moyles or big Sam...get my vote
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I am off to Cornwall tomorrow for a week and I reckon it is fifty-fifty on whether Bruce will still be in charge when I get back.
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I am off to Cornwall tomorrow for a week and I reckon it is fifty-fifty on whether Bruce will still be in charge when I get back.
you are expecting a draw then against Barnsley then Chris
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Yes, somewhat. I actually like the sound of him but from Rudy's summary there I'm not sure he'd come.
Check out the video of him with his hands in his pockets at the training ground as he gets one of his players to practice his crossing. Genius!
July 9 video
https://twitter.com/oscargarciaj
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Yes, somewhat. I actually like the sound of him but from Rudy's summary there I'm not sure he'd come.
Check out the video of him with his hands in his pockets at the training ground as he gets one of his players to practice his crossing. Genius!
July 9 video
https://twitter.com/oscargarciaj
What sorcery is this?
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Apparently Silhillian and former Small Heath player Graham Potter is working miracles with Ostersund.
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Apparently Silhillian and former Small Heath player Graham Potter is working miracles with Ostersund.
Very much so. Taken them from the Swedish fourth division to the first in the space of six seasons. Won the Swedish Cup last year and then knocked Galatasaray out in the qualifying round this summer
A very impressive body of work.
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Rumours on Twitter that we are sounding out st ettienes Oscar Garcia. Never heard of him but he's not called Bruce, Pardew, Moyles or big Sam...get my vote
His team looks impressive in the vids. The high pressing game would need much more energy than we seem to have now but he's definitely the kind of progressive coach we should be looking at instead of stick in the mud old school English managers. He could be our Wagner. (not the composer)
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Ciggies your post about sorcery should have come after the mention of Potter.
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Rumours on Twitter that we are sounding out st ettienes Oscar Garcia. Never heard of him but he's not called Bruce, Pardew, Moyles or big Sam...get my vote
His team looks impressive in the vids. The high pressing game would need much more energy than we seem to have now but he's definitely the kind of progressive coach we should be looking at instead of stick in the mud old school English managers. He could be our Wagner. (not the composer)
The bloke from X Factor?
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Wonderwoman
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erm... Bionic Woman. Wonder Woman was Lynda Carter in the series and (oh my god!) Gal Gadot in the film
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If definitely like a manager who plays front foot pressing high tempo football
But I really don't know how that would suit our centre backs and defensive midfielders. Terry was shit under AVB and that's. When he wasn't one year from retirement.
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Can't see it - only just signed a contract with St Etienne in June so why switch. How did he set Brighton and Watford up out of interest?
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Rumours on Twitter that we are sounding out st ettienes Oscar Garcia. Never heard of him but he's not called Bruce, Pardew, Moyles or big Sam...get my vote
His team looks impressive in the vids. The high pressing game would need much more energy than we seem to have now but he's definitely the kind of progressive coach we should be looking at instead of stick in the mud old school English managers. He could be our Wagner. (not the composer)
The bloke from X Factor?
That's him!
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Nothing like a continental name such as Garcia to get people who had never heard of him 24 hours ago to be utterly convinced he is the man for us. It's so much more exotic than Monk & Rowett, surely he'll deliver us to the promised land?
Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
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I know, right? Why don't people understand that we've already GONE FOREIGN. What more evidence do you need that it doesn't work?
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Nothing like a continental name such as Garcia to get people who had never heard of him 24 hours ago to be utterly convinced he is the man for us. It's so much more exotic than Monk & Rowett, surely he'll deliver us to the promised land?
Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
Yep getting excited because he's foreign is all it is, nothing to do with him having been part of the best coaching setup in the world (at Barca) or the fact that people have had a look at the style of play his teams and decided he looks a good option. Even better you then give 2 names that most people on here would be largely in favour of if they were seriously linked. Where there's been criticism of British 'usual suspects' has been around names like Allerdyce, Pardew, Moyes and their ilk who are from the same school as Bruce.
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Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
I think the poison right throughout the club was so great that I actually don't apportion any blame to Garde.
I think he'd be ideal for us now but I doubt either party would be interested. We're probably still paying him funnily enough.
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Well, he's certainly not stayed anywhere very long so I suppose he's an ideal fit for us from that point of view.
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I just looked up Garcia on Wiki. The translation into English was so poor I genuinely changed it back into Spanish so I could read it properly.
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Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
I think the poison right throughout the club was so great that I actually don't apportion any blame to Garde.
I think he'd be ideal for us now but I doubt either party would be interested. We're probably still paying him funnily enough.
He was utterly awful. Yes it was a difficult situation but he added absolutely nothing. If we had appointed Alardyce (who I am no great fan of) at the time you don't think we would have had a better shot at staying up?
If we appointed Garde again today, I suspect the results would be pretty similar to last time. And this is my main concern about any gamble on a manager without experience in England - could be great, but the price we pay if we get it wrong is unthinkable.
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I've heard a rumour - so how true it is is anyone's guess - thst Chris Coleman has been sounded out if Wales don't make the World Cup qualifying play-offs.
Nooooooo. F*ck off. (Not you Exeter77)
That was pretty much my reaction when the guy told me.
We may as well rename this thread "Bruce In?" because that's the reaction most of the names suggested bring.
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Nothing like a continental name such as Garcia to get people who had never heard of him 24 hours ago to be utterly convinced he is the man for us. It's so much more exotic than Monk & Rowett, surely he'll deliver us to the promised land?
Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
Yep getting excited because he's foreign is all it is, nothing to do with him having been part of the best coaching setup in the world (at Barca) or the fact that people have had a look at the style of play his teams and decided he looks a good option. Even better you then give 2 names that most people on here would be largely in favour of if they were seriously linked. Where there's been criticism of British 'usual suspects' has been around names like Allerdyce, Pardew, Moyes and their ilk who are from the same school as Bruce.
The point I was making, albeit pretty tongue in cheek, is that a continental name always punches well above it's weight in the excitement stakes and yes, a lot of people getting worked up over him won't have heard of him before. I do think if we end up with another Garde we're in big danger of being relegated, so a Monk / Rowett type would be a lot safer, if less exciting.
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And this is my main concern about any gamble on a manager without experience in England - could be great, but the price we pay if we get it wrong is unthinkable.
Given you didn't answer last time I asked, who is the manager with that experience in England that you don't consider to be gamble?
Who is it that means that the "price we pay if we get wrong" isn't a problem?
As from where I'm sitting, nailed-on, Championship promotion specialist Steve Bruce is looking a bit like a gamble that hasn't worked, no?
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Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
I think the poison right throughout the club was so great that I actually don't apportion any blame to Garde.
I think he'd be ideal for us now but I doubt either party would be interested. We're probably still paying him funnily enough.
He was utterly awful. Yes it was a difficult situation but he added absolutely nothing. If we had appointed Alardyce (who I am no great fan of) at the time you don't think we would have had a better shot at staying up?
If we appointed Garde again today, I suspect the results would be pretty similar to last time. And this is my main concern about any gamble on a manager without experience in England - could be great, but the price we pay if we get it wrong is unthinkable.
In the situation we were in we definitely needed an Allardyce as opposed to a Garde. Remember Garde came in with plenty of time to spare and actually made us worse than under Lambert and Sherwood.
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Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
I think the poison right throughout the club was so great that I actually don't apportion any blame to Garde.
I think he'd be ideal for us now but I doubt either party would be interested. We're probably still paying him funnily enough.
If we had appointed Alardyce (who I am no great fan of) at the time you don't think we would have had a better shot at staying up?
Yes Allerdyce then would have given us more chance of staying up but I think I'd prefer a Garde type appointment now.
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Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
I think the poison right throughout the club was so great that I actually don't apportion any blame to Garde.
I think he'd be ideal for us now but I doubt either party would be interested. We're probably still paying him funnily enough.
If we had appointed Alardyce (who I am no great fan of) at the time you don't think we would have had a better shot at staying up?
Yes Allerdyce then would have given us more chance of staying up but I think I'd prefer a Garde type appointment now.
It appears that Garcia would be a Garde type appointment. Is it asking too much to find a foreign manager with a half decent CV/track record?
Four games in charge of Watford and fifty three games in charge of Brighton and he averaged a point a game. If this was Dragon's Den I would definitely be saying "I'm out".
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Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
I think the poison right throughout the club was so great that I actually don't apportion any blame to Garde.
I think he'd be ideal for us now but I doubt either party would be interested. We're probably still paying him funnily enough.
He was utterly awful. Yes it was a difficult situation but he added absolutely nothing. If we had appointed Alardyce (who I am no great fan of) at the time you don't think we would have had a better shot at staying up?
If we appointed Garde again today, I suspect the results would be pretty similar to last time. And this is my main concern about any gamble on a manager without experience in England - could be great, but the price we pay if we get it wrong is unthinkable.
In the situation we were in we definitely needed an Allardyce as opposed to a Garde. Remember Garde came in with plenty of time to spare and actually made us worse than under Lambert and Sherwood.
We were a shambles that made 1986/7 look like the Edinburgh tattoo in comparison. To give Garde his first job in English football summed up how clueless we were. But he might be what we need now had he been left in France.
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And this is my main concern about any gamble on a manager without experience in England - could be great, but the price we pay if we get it wrong is unthinkable.
Given you didn't answer last time I asked, who is the manager with that experience in England that you don't consider to be gamble?
Who is it that means that the "price we pay if we get wrong" isn't a problem?
As from where I'm sitting, nailed-on, Championship promotion specialist Steve Bruce is looking a bit like a gamble that hasn't worked, no?
There's loads who would be much less of a gamble - who of those we can attract is the difficulty. I'm not going to bother listing the current PL & Championship managers who are doing well at the moment as it's pretty obvious. Nobody would offer guaranteed promotion but plenty who are less likely to be Garde & Zenga type disasters who would see us relegated again. Even De Boer, who I would have thought would have been a really attractive option, may have put us in trouble given it looks like it will take him time to settle into the English leagues. If we appointed him now and lost 4 on the bounce we'd be in a desperate position.
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Let's just give the job to Nigel Pearson,bring back Roy Keane as his assistant and bring in Joey Barton as coach. I can't see us going up or down so let's just have some fun.
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Nothing like a continental name such as Garcia to get people who had never heard of him 24 hours ago to be utterly convinced he is the man for us. It's so much more exotic than Monk & Rowett, surely he'll deliver us to the promised land?
Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
Yep getting excited because he's foreign is all it is, nothing to do with him having been part of the best coaching setup in the world (at Barca) or the fact that people have had a look at the style of play his teams and decided he looks a good option. Even better you then give 2 names that most people on here would be largely in favour of if they were seriously linked. Where there's been criticism of British 'usual suspects' has been around names like Allerdyce, Pardew, Moyes and their ilk who are from the same school as Bruce.
The point I was making, albeit pretty tongue in cheek, is that a continental name always punches well above it's weight in the excitement stakes. I do think if we end up with another Garde we're in big danger of being relegated, so a Monk / Rowett type would be a lot safer, if less exciting.
but it's a meaningless point because there's no more or less risk in appointing Rowett or Monk (who've never managed clubs with the same level of expectation/pressure). Not knowing the league is a risk but too often in recent years we've used it as a line in the sand and gone for 'safe' bets who've failed. The only 'left field' choice we'vemade is the one you name but what about the failures of McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, RDM and Bruce who were all Monk/Rowett types in that they were managers who knew the league and had some form of 'success' (in quotes because it's subjective in every case) that justified them as a good choice.
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Nothing like a continental name such as Garcia to get people who had never heard of him 24 hours ago to be utterly convinced he is the man for us. It's so much more exotic than Monk & Rowett, surely he'll deliver us to the promised land?
Take a read of the Garde thread and you'll see exactly the same excitement (yes I know he got a rough deal, but could he have been shitter if he tried?)
Yep getting excited because he's foreign is all it is, nothing to do with him having been part of the best coaching setup in the world (at Barca) or the fact that people have had a look at the style of play his teams and decided he looks a good option. Even better you then give 2 names that most people on here would be largely in favour of if they were seriously linked. Where there's been criticism of British 'usual suspects' has been around names like Allerdyce, Pardew, Moyes and their ilk who are from the same school as Bruce.
The point I was making, albeit pretty tongue in cheek, is that a continental name always punches well above it's weight in the excitement stakes. I do think if we end up with another Garde we're in big danger of being relegated, so a Monk / Rowett type would be a lot safer, if less exciting.
but it's a meaningless point because there's no more or less risk in appointing Rowett or Monk (who've never managed clubs with the same level of expectation/pressure). Not knowing the league is a risk but too often in recent years we've used it as a line in the sand and gone for 'safe' bets who've failed. The only 'left field' choice we'vemade is the one you name but what about the failures of McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, RDM and Bruce who were all Monk/Rowett types in that they were managers who knew the league and had some form of 'success' (in quotes because it's subjective in every case) that justified them as a good choice.
I don't thisnk they are all Monk / Rowett types at all. The closest to them is probably Lambert, who was very much the popular choice - a good up and coming young manager, pretty universally respected and most on here wanted him. McLeish was just a fucking stupid appointment and doesn't fit into any category that we are discussing. Sherwood actually did a short term job, but I don't think anybody saw him as a good tactical coach. Lots of us had reservations about RDM - I think Xia's head was turned by the CL medal. And yes, lots of us thought Bruce was a pretty safe bet - let's face it we were in terminal decline and a number of managers had failed to stop it. Again, I don't see any relationship to to a young manager like Monk for example.
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I think with the way it's gone in recent years, anyone who truly believes that they can be sure a particular manager or a particular category of manager will definately fail / will definately be great must be a bit deluded. There seems to be a lot of argument on here when the current situation is far from black and white. If people have a hunch or gut feeling that's one thing, but who can be sure? My gut feeling on particular names is that Alladyce would do better than Bruce and that the Spanish fella would be like a rabbit in the headlights but accept anyone who's gut feeling is the opposite.
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Well he is foreign and probably don't like it up 'im.
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Well he is foreign and probably don't like it up 'im.
Can he manage on a wet Tuesday against Middlesborough?
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I think with the way it's gone in recent years, anyone who truly believes that they can be sure a particular manager or a particular category of manager will definately fail / will definately be great must be a bit deluded. There seems to be a lot of argument on here when the current situation is far from black and white. If people have a hunch or gut feeling that's one thing, but who can be sure? My gut feeling on particular names is that Alladyce would do better than Bruce and that the Spanish fella would be like a rabbit in the headlights but accept anyone who's gut feeling is the opposite.
Exactly - top post
None of us really know
It's idiotic to say Bruce is a hopeless manager
It's idiotic to say that literally anyone else would definitely do better
It's idiotic to say he guarantees promotion (not that anyone is any more)
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Well he is foreign and probably don't like it up 'im.
Indeed. Nor will he like it on a cold midweek game in somewhere like Preston.
Rowett would be my choice. Not that I think he'd leave Derby. I have no basis for that other than my gut instinct that "he'd do alright at our place".
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I don't thisnk they are all Monk / Rowett types at all. The closest to them is probably Lambert, who was very much the popular choice - a good up and coming young manager, pretty universally respected and most on here wanted him. McLeish was just a fucking stupid appointment and doesn't fit into any category that we are discussing. Sherwood actually did a short term job, but I don't think anybody saw him as a good tactical coach. Lots of us had reservations about RDM - I think Xia's head was turned by the CL medal. And yes, lots of us thought Bruce was a pretty safe bet - let's face it we were in terminal decline and a number of managers had failed to stop it. Again, I don't see any relationship to to a young manager like Monk for example.
Which all says that every manager is different and the needs of the club are different. Which all makes your original comment (and subsequent clarification) pointless. The right choice for manager next time shouldn't be someone who fits neat little box like 'knows the league' or 'British' and comments about Garcia are exciting partly for the reasons I've already given but far more importantly because, if it's true, it shows that the board might actually be on the right page eventually and it suggests the pool we'll pick from won't just be the same old shite that lots of people seemed to expect. On that point ...
It's idiotic to say Bruce is a hopeless manager
It's idiotic to say that literally anyone else would definitely do better
It's idiotic to say he guarantees promotion (not that anyone is any more)
No it's it's not, as Aston Villa manager Bruce has been largely hopeless. If he left tomorrow what positives would there be from his time here?
I agree, but seeing as no one is saying that I don't get the argument but it appears to be another round of you dismissing anyone decent, looking at the shit tha'ts left and saying you don't like it so stick with Bruce.
It's idiotic to say anyone guarantees anything, but it doesn't stop people saying that British managers who know the league are a safer set of hands than pesky foreigners like Garde and that we'd be as likely to go down as improve if we go that way.
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I can't see how anyone could be less safe than Garde frankly Paul. You clearly don't get the point which was simply, chuck a foreign name on here (whether its a player or manager) and the excitement levels go through the roof often from people who had never heard of the bloke 24 hours earlier. Their are countless examples of this, Garde just being the most extreme. I accept your own judgement may be based on more than this but that doesn't invalidate the general point.
But yes, I do absolutely think that Monk (for example) would be a far safer bet for us in our current position than a young foreign manager with no experience of our leagues.
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The problem I have is that past experience with English football seems to be given far too much weight in these discussions - it applies both to players and managers. Sure, if you had two otherwise-identical candidates, you would take the one who has the added attribute of experience in English football.
Easy to say now, of course, but Marco Silva vs Rowett back when Hull was looking for a manager last season should have been an absolute pisser, yet plenty of people backed the latter because apparently he deserved a chance for doing an okay job at Birmingham.
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Monk has got something of a shit eating grin mind. If a little bit of that came out after a 3-0 defeat at Millwall or similar it might be a boot through the TV moment.
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yet plenty of people backed the latter because apparently he deserved a chance for doing an okay job at Birmingham.
Personally I think Rowett did somewhat more than an "okay" job at the Blues - he did wonders there. They were in turmoil when he joined, and when he left they were completely shambolic and relegation bound under Zola.
Of course, thats not guarantee that he'd make a good fist of it at our place (see McLeish. See Bruce).
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yet plenty of people backed the latter because apparently he deserved a chance for doing an okay job at Birmingham.
Personally I think Rowett did somewhat more than an "okay" job at the Blues - he did wonders there. They were in turmoil when he joined, and when he left they were completely shambolic and relegation bound under Zola.
Of course, thats not guarantee that he'd make a good fist of it at our place (see McLeish. See Bruce).
Fine, I'm willing to accept that upgraded assessment, but even so, you could easily argue that it was still dwarfed by Silva's achievements.
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I can't see how anyone could be less safe than Garde frankly Paul. You clearly don't get the point which was simply, chuck a foreign name on here (whether its a player or manager) and the excitement levels go through the roof often from people who had never heard of the bloke 24 hours earlier. Their are countless examples of this, Garde just being the most extreme. I accept your own judgement may be based on more than this but that doesn't invalidate the general point.
But yes, I do absolutely think that Monk (for example) would be a far safer bet for us in our current position than a young foreign manager with no experience of our leagues.
Yes it does invalidate the general point because most of the time it happens someone (this time you) comes out with the same tired old arguments that people are reacting to the fancy foreign name. It usually gets followed up with us needing some pashun and someone to scare the shit out of the players. You then get people saying that we need Bruce/Moyes/Allerdyce/Warnock/Pearson. You've done it slightly differently by suggesting Monk but you've still run with the idea that having managed in England makes a manager a safer bet based on very little other than some strange idea that British football exists in a bubble and requires a completely different skillset to any other league.
Oh, and Garcia has managed nearly as many championship games as Monk and has experience of getting a team into the playoffs, something that Monk bottled out of last year.
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You clearly don't get the point which was simply, chuck a foreign name on here (whether its a player or manager) and the excitement levels go through the roof often from people who had never heard of the bloke 24 hours earlier.
You seem very sure that people are approaching their view from a position on ignorance.
You not having heard of Oscar Garcia doesn't mean that somebody else commenting on him is in the same boat.
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I would suggest the best bet, if we are to change manager, would be to go with someone who is accustomed to being expected to win. This may lend itself to going for a foreign manager as I suspect it would be easier to prize away someone who has done well in a so-called lesser league than it is to prize someone away from a domestic rival. I also think the domestic pool is a lot smaller - how many managers are at clubs that expect to win every week (and demonstrating that they can do this). Rafa managed it last season (but I think he might be out of our reach!). Monk is probably the only other manager in the league with similar fan expectations to Bruce and he's had a slightly indifferent start.
There is also some credence to the argument that it is important to have someone who knows the league though but, I would suggest, this is only in the sense that the number of games, lack of winter break and overall intensity of the league take some getting used to. Some managers may be tempted to rotate to much in order to preserve players and may not quite get the balance right initially so it is of less importance than the ability to instill a winning mentality and cope with that expectation.
This doesn't necessarily mean it will work (Bruce ticks both these criteria and it hasn't worked so well for him) but I think it is a good starting point. Overall, I would suggest Jokanovic has demonstrated this following his time at Watford, has followed it up by doing a good job at Fulham and also knows the league and could hit the ground running. He'd get my vote (and did in the poll!)
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You clearly don't get the point which was simply, chuck a foreign name on here (whether its a player or manager) and the excitement levels go through the roof often from people who had never heard of the bloke 24 hours earlier.
You seem very sure that people are approaching their view from a position on ignorance.
You not having heard of Oscar Garcia doesn't mean that somebody else commenting on him is in the same boat.
I would imagine plenty would have known him (and his brother, Roger) as a player in Bobby Robson's crazy season at Barcelona.
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You clearly don't get the point which was simply, chuck a foreign name on here (whether its a player or manager) and the excitement levels go through the roof often from people who had never heard of the bloke 24 hours earlier.
You seem very sure that people are approaching their view from a position on ignorance.
You not having heard of Oscar Garcia doesn't mean that somebody else commenting on him is in the same boat.
It was a general tongue in cheek comment but I've no doubt there is some truth in it for many people. Look at the excitement over Garde - how many people honestly knew much about him before he was linked with us? It's the same with players, people getting over excited by the likes of Veretout who they have never seen play.
With regards the general point, I've no great love for Gary Monk, indeed I particularly dislike him as an individual and think he is graceless in post match interviews. But he is a reasonable example of someone who may be a safer pair of hands and who doesn't have to be an old fashioned 'dinosaur.' Solskjaer is a good example of someone who seemed to tick a lot of boxes but couldn't translate his managerial skills to England. I'm sure De Boer will come good in the long run, but in our precarious position when RDM was sacked, could we have afforded that settling in period last October?
And I know enough about Garcia to know he was pretty average over 50 games for Brighton. There's nothing in his record for people to get so clammy about and yes, absolutely I think his name helps.
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Also, anybody that frequents the Music Threads on here will be well aware of Percy's love for Oscar Garcia..
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You clearly don't get the point which was simply, chuck a foreign name on here (whether its a player or manager) and the excitement levels go through the roof often from people who had never heard of the bloke 24 hours earlier.
You seem very sure that people are approaching their view from a position on ignorance.
You not having heard of Oscar Garcia doesn't mean that somebody else commenting on him is in the same boat.
It was a general tongue in cheek comment but I've no doubt there is some truth in it for many people. Look at the excitement over Garde - how many people honestly knew much about him before he was linked with us? It's the same with players, people getting over excited by the likes of Veretout who they have never seen play.
You mention in an earlier post that paul_e doesn't get the point, but the point you still seem to be ignoring is that there is nothing that isn't a risk.
Surely Steve safe-pair-of-hands Bruce and Ross 30-goals-a-season-since-forever McCormack should be all we needed based on their record? Everyone knew them, they had solid records to show off, they were effectively risk free weren't they?
Well, no. Sometimes it's the bloke who's just been sacked from Espanyol in his only job to date when they were bottom of the table who goes on to be one of the most sought after managers in the world.
Employing a Spanish bloke managing in France is a risk. Just like hiring any other manager.
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OK. My opinion is that simply that some are more risky than others.
My view is a we have been teetering on a knife edge for a while and another Garde like failure would have seen us relegated again.
Yes, there's a risk with the likes of Monk and Rowett (Or Dyche, Houghton etc) that we may not fly up the table and get promoted, but I suspect they would all do a decent job and with our squad there would next to no risk of us being relegated with them.
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OK. My opinion is that simply that some are more risky than others.
Absolutely. But in my opinion "being a bit foreign" isn't the thing that defines that risk.
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OK. My opinion is that simply that some are more risky than others.
My view is a we have been teetering on a knife edge for a while and another Garde like failure would have seen us relegated again.
Yes, there's a risk with the likes of Monk and Rowett (Or Dyche, Houghton etc) that we may not fly up the table and get promoted, but I suspect they would all do a decent job and with our squad there would next to no risk of us being relegated with them.
and, it appears, that opinion is largely based on the belief that people you've heard of are less likely to be shit than people you haven't heard of. That is just as limited a view as the idea of getting excited by the foreigner that you're being critical of.
Just to clarify I think Garcia has decent credentials - his record at Brighton was OK and he did get them into the playoffs, his record in Austria was very good (at a team that expected to win) and a few years working with Cryuff and then at La Masia serves as a great apprenticeship for anyone. His time in israel is less relevant but again he managed at the big fish in the league and largely achieved what they'd have expected.
On top of that after I posted the link (with no excitement I hope you'll note) I didn't pass any comment until I'd had a bit of a look around to see how his team at Salzburg played. On the limited amount of footage I've found I'd say he plays in the way I'd like to see from us and that could be effective.
I'm not championing him or getting over excited and as I said earlier I wouldn't be against Monk coming in (I wouldn't want Rowett though). My main gripe is this idea that doing things largely the same as we have for 5 of the last 6 managers, who all played a part in getting us to where, is less of a risk than something slightly comparable with the the other on of those 6 who is the only one of the lot who has a genuine case that his job was made impossible by the board/owner.
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Paul - all understood. I know you do your research. As I said it was tongue in cheek and more a commentary on football forums as a whole than you specifically (I wanted Veretout to join as much as the next man).
I'd love it if we find the next Pochettino. I just don't think we could survive a Zenga.
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Can we cover why we appointed Garde. That bit I do know from many conversations around that time with Tom Fox.
They wanted a bloke who played more progressive football. They saw that he did a decent job in France at a big club but where he had to use the youth as the top players were sold out from under him. He was a big name in France and it was hoped he would be a boost in a dressing room with a lot of French speakers but whose achievements ought to be respected by our senior pros.
It wasn't actually a bad plan.
The English senior pros immediately attempted to undermine him. He couldn't discipline them as he wanted when 3 of them were due to be thrown in the kids side. He then didn't get to sign the players he wanted in January. They did try to get a couple but the deals fell over.
My issue with Garde is that he was so pissed off with his shit hand he gave up.
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Paul - all understood. I know you do your research. As I said it was tongue in cheek and more a commentary on football forums as a whole than you specifically (I wanted Veretout to join as much as the next man).
I'd love it if we find the next Pochettino. I just don't think we could survive a Zenga.
For me I don't think relegation is a risk, we have enough players who can win a match on their own to always keep ahead of the really poor sides in this league (Bolton and Burton as 2 good examples) so my view is about finding someone to move us the other way. Last year we finished 13th and I struggled to see anything to suggest a big improvement, the play style was poor, the signings were functional rather than exciting, the results were hit and miss. That made for, for me, a summer where I had very little hope of a massive turnaround in our fortunes. Pre-season added that and the start we've made has just proven to be as depressing as I expected.
Looking at the manager you'd expect as favourites (I've listed them above) they're the sort you'd bring in to dodge relegation and steady the ship but there isn't one of them that I can see leading us on a charge up the table and into the premier league and, just as importantly, there isn't one of them that I'd trust to leave us with a positive legacy of improved technical standards and professionalism. I'm willing to be patient and wait for things to be right before we get promoted but being patient whilst we flail around in the dark hoping for a miracle with a plan to completely rip everything up once we're do get promoted just isn't for me.
I don't know anything for sure but Frank De Boer and Oscar Garcia (and Phillippe Cocu who is my vote above) have all been heavily involved with clubs where the 'villa engine' concept is firmly established and whose best players are those who've come through the system so even if the results don't improve enough to get us up I'd at least have hope that their experiences were feeding into our own system rather than working against it.
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Monk has got something of a shit eating grin mind. If a little bit of that came out after a 3-0 defeat at Millwall or similar it might be a boot through the TV moment.
I think the closest I came to a genuine boot through the TV moment was DOL giving a Friday night interview to SKY before a game at Arsenal where he basically suggested we weren't worthy to be on the same pitch as them. We went on to lose heavily the next next funnily enough.
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Can we cover why we appointed Garde. That bit I do know from many conversations around that time with Tom Fox.
They wanted a bloke who played more progressive football. They saw that he did a decent job in France at a big club but where he had to use the youth as the top players were sold out from under him. He was a big name in France and it was hoped he would be a boost in a dressing room with a lot of French speakers but whose achievements ought to be respected by our senior pros.
It wasn't actually a bad plan.
The English senior pros immediately attempted to undermine him. He couldn't discipline them as he wanted when 3 of them were due to be thrown in the kids side. He then didn't get to sign the players he wanted in January. They did try to get a couple but the deals fell over.
My issue with Garde is that he was so pissed off with his shit hand he gave up.
Yep, I'm disappointed with Garde for a couple of reasons but as above, of anyone who's managed us in the last decade he's the only one who can argue he wasn't given any help by the board. Most of them have had to work to a budget but that should just be standard, that it's such an alien idea to so many people in the sport highlights just how fucked the finances of the sport are.
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OK. My opinion is that simply that some are more risky than others.
Absolutely. But in my opinion "being a bit foreign" isn't the thing that defines that risk.
'A bit foreign' could be classed as being Scottish. Which for our club is definitely a risk.
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What happened to the guy St Ettienne had that was linked with us before? He looked like he was doing a decent job there and would have been a better choice than Garde, indeed I read somewhere he turned it down before Garde took it on.
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What happened to the guy St Ettienne had that was linked with us before? He looked like he was doing a decent job there and would have been a better choice than Garde, indeed I read somewhere he turned it down before Garde took it on.
Christophe Gaultier - left St Etienne at the end of the season and Garcia took over.
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Dean Smith would be bang average. I like him, obviously, for obvious reasons, but not much about his record to suggest he'd cut it.
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Is Laudrup seen as a bit too dodgy now? He left Swansea in odd circumstances with talk his agent was influencing things too much but his record was pretty good there and he'd certainly play decent football.
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He seemed to get the same accusation as DiMatteo in being aloof and not there very often. Although he seemed to not get on very well with Monk either. Who then became manager. Odd one, but seemed a decent manager results wise. Did he or Monk take Pep Clotet there as a coach. He seems to be growing a very quick rep at Oxford.
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Pep Clotet met Garry Monk at one of the coaching courses I think, he's one to watch certainly. Oxford will finish top 6 this year.
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He looks a bit like Wagner to me Soccer. Ie worth getting before it's too late.
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Is Laudrup seen as a bit too dodgy now? He left Swansea in odd circumstances with talk his agent was influencing things too much but his record was pretty good there and he'd certainly play decent football.
We'd probably fuck that up and get Brian.
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I like Clotet. A Bielsa protégé.
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I like Clotet. A Bielsa protégé.
I'm in.
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What I find strange (yet again) is apparently we previously went after Garcia, as we went after Wagner but ended up with Bruce.
Over to you, Mr Wyness?
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What I find strange (yet again) is apparently we previously went after Garcia, as we went after Wagner but ended up with Bruce.
Over to you, Mr Wyness?
Me to
that type of ridiculousness has been going on for some time mind, the previous owner did exactly the same
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It's almost as if, when you're in division two and part way trough a season, there's such a limited pool of managers to pick from that it's hard to pick your philosophy and then a manager to suit
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Paddypower:
John Terry 7-2 fav
David Moyse 7-1
Chris Coleman 10-1 etc etc
Dave Cameron 500-1
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Urs Fischer former Basel coach won the double last season and Basel were good under him in Europe.
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Sammy Lee, Ryland Morgans and Orlando Trustfull are available now.
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the last two sound like shady shit to me
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It's almost as if, when you're in division two and part way trough a season, there's such a limited pool of managers to pick from that it's hard to pick your philosophy and then a manager to suit
Exactly. Which is the point many of us made in the summer as to why Bruce needed sacking then. It was always likely that we'd go on another shite run before Xmas, sack Bruce and then start choosing from a very limited pool of available managers. Had we acted in May we'd have had a far better chance of enticing someone already in a job.
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Yeah - and you may have been right and I may have been wrong, in hindsight (your foresight)
If we hadn't averaged a new manager per season for 5 years I might prize stability less. But there must be some argument that more changes - including no doubt more on the playing side - is the last thing we need
The truth is I just don't know. If we don't improve rapidly he'll have to go, and I'll be hoping for a more progressive manager like everyone else
I
But it will be hope and not expectation of a turnaround
If a Chris Hughton, Eddie Howe or whoever does become available then I'll be much more inclined to get rid
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Yeah - and you may have been right and I may have been wrong, in hindsight (your foresight)
If we hadn't averaged a new manager per season for 5 years I might prize stability less. But there must be some argument that more changes - including no doubt more on the playing side - is the last thing we need
The truth is I just don't know. If we don't improve rapidly he'll have to go, and I'll be hoping for a more progressive manager like everyone else
I
But it will be hope and not expectation of a turnaround
If a Chris Hughton, Eddie Howe or whoever does become available then I'll be much more inclined to get rid
The thing is though, haven't we been at the "he has to go if we don't improve rapidly soon" stage for absolutely ages now? I'd say enough time has passed for one to conclude that it's not happening.
And once you've reached that conclusion, you quite obviously have to get someone in, and the possibility that it might not work out shouldn't be a discouraging factor whatsoever.
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Not for me. He always deserved a chance to see how the season starts. The only question is what's a reasonable run of games to make that judgement
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I think his chance to show his mettle at running our club is over.
Now that he has gone all DOL on us,its a sign of a man in retreat,which seems to be what he has stamped on the team,his team,his own persona out on the pitch,and that for me is why he must move over and let someone else have a go.
Shame,as until recently i liked the man,but the job is beyond him,and it shows.
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Not for me. He always deserved a chance to see how the season starts. The only question is what's a reasonable run of games to make that judgement
Genuine question Matt, and not having a go at you because your position has been clear and you have defended that admirably, but do you not also look at the long term results and performances say, since Christmas? I think most who want change, including me, see the fact the nothing has changed over a long run of games, across 2 different seasons. It is certainly not a knee jerk reaction to few crap results this season.
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I'm not arguing last season was good enough - it was shit
I think it may depend what we all consider 'par' to be.
Last year, some looked at the ££ spent and thought we should right up there. I never thought that was realistic. I wanted to see signs we were becoming a good team by the end of the season, which we didn't. So Bruce was sub-par heading into the season and needed a big improvement
But I didn't think he merited the sack last year. Turning around this clubs after 6 years of shambolic decline is a huge task.
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2 wins in 13, near relegation form in 2017, mid midtable form since he arrived, currently 1 place higher in the table than we were the day he arrived. His 42 league games have produced 59 points and 44 league goals. However you want to look at it, he's been a total failure.
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I'm not arguing last season was good enough - it was shit
I think it may depend what we all consider 'par' to be.
Last year, some looked at the ££ spent and thought we should right up there. I never thought that was realistic. I wanted to see signs we were becoming a good team by the end of the season, which we didn't. So Bruce was sub-par heading into the season and needed a big improvement
But I didn't think he merited the sack last year. Turning around this clubs after 6 years of shambolic decline is a huge task.
You must have been mystified or even apoplectic at RDM's sacking, I would assume?
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2 wins in 13, near relegation form in 2017, mid midtable form since he arrived, currently 1 place higher in the table than we were the day he arrived. His 42 league games have produced 59 points and 44 league goals. However you want to look at it, he's been a total failure.
I don't think it was a failure last season but it certainly wasn't successful enough to have enough credit in the bank for this seasons dismal start. If he'd got us to the playoffs and failed or even 7th I think I'd be saying this could be a blip and give him more time but that wasn't the case. Big picture wise, this is the time for the last chance.
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I'm not arguing last season was good enough - it was shit
I think it may depend what we all consider 'par' to be.
Last year, some looked at the ££ spent and thought we should right up there. I never thought that was realistic. I wanted to see signs we were becoming a good team by the end of the season, which we didn't. So Bruce was sub-par heading into the season and needed a big improvement
But I didn't think he merited the sack last year. Turning around this clubs after 6 years of shambolic decline is a huge task.
You must have been mystified or even apoplectic at RDM's sacking, I would assume?
I thought i was very early. But he was a less sensible choice than Bruce appeared to be on paper, in the first place
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I'm not arguing last season was good enough - it was shit
I think it may depend what we all consider 'par' to be.
Last year, some looked at the ££ spent and thought we should right up there. I never thought that was realistic. I wanted to see signs we were becoming a good team by the end of the season, which we didn't. So Bruce was sub-par heading into the season and needed a big improvement
But I didn't think he merited the sack last year. Turning around this clubs after 6 years of shambolic decline is a huge task.
You must have been mystified or even apoplectic at RDM's sacking, I would assume?
I thought i was very early. But he was a less sensible choice than Bruce appeared to be on paper, in the first place
"less sensible". Hmmm - actually, I thought the RDM / Steve Clarke combo was very clever. At the time, RDM had some credibility as a cool-headed manager and Clarke was regarded as a very good coach - it was an idea that may have been spectacularly successful. Unfortunately, a combination of the old Prem players not performing and there apparently being no real game-plan did for them both.
I was all in favour of them going after that deadful Preston game but hindsight suggests maybe we should have stuck with them and accepted that it would take a season to get properly ready for a promotion challenge. But there again, may be not!
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Not for me. He always deserved a chance to see how the season starts. The only question is what's a reasonable run of games to make that judgement
I always used the old 10 games is enough to make a decision in the PL. With the extra games in the Championship i'd say 15 games is the 'is it working or not' cut off point for me
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It doesn't really matter anyway now - we can't change the past
He's obviously got a handful of games to show improvement or he's out
The harder question is what we do if our form is just 'meh'. A few draws and couple of wins against say Bolton and burton over the rest of the month for example
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I guess that's why today is so important. Wins against those sides won't necessarily tell us much.
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I hope he hasn't still got a 'handful of games' before he is hoiked out.
It won't be too long before we are so far off the pace we can write the season off.
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Not for me. He always deserved a chance to see how the season starts. The only question is what's a reasonable run of games to make that judgement
I always used the old 10 games is enough to make a decision in the PL. With the extra games in the Championship i'd say 15 games is the 'is it working or not' cut off point for me
12 points from his last 13 ...
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Not for me. He always deserved a chance to see how the season starts. The only question is what's a reasonable run of games to make that judgement
I always used the old 10 games is enough to make a decision in the PL. With the extra games in the Championship i'd say 15 games is the 'is it working or not' cut off point for me
Disagree. We saw last season 10 games takes you to start of October. We were way off the pace under RDM and we could never quite catch up. This season is going the same way.
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We need to win 4 of the next 5 just to get back into the mix for the promotion spots, and even then that will be playoff territory. That would be 19 from 12, nowhere near automatic form.
Don't win today and he can't go on. 1 win from 8 this season would be awful.
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It's almost as if, when you're in division two and part way trough a season, there's such a limited pool of managers to pick from that it's hard to pick your philosophy and then a manager to suit
I don't see why, pick the philosophy and then find the manager best suited to deliver it. Previously, we've seemingly had no philosophy and mistakenly, imo, placed too much emphasis on 'knowing the league' and possibly 'low risk'.
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We need to win 4 of the next 5 just to get back into the mix for the promotion spots, and even then that will be playoff territory. That would be 19 from 12, nowhere near automatic form.
Don't win today and he can't go on. 1 win from 8 this season would be awful.
Agreed this is the definition of must win for him.
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It's been must win most of the season though. We simply couldn't afford another slow start.
He knows it's all over and I think the team does. I fully expect us to be flat and mundane protecting a 0-0 and get caught as we often do and lose 2-0 or something without really posing a threat. The recent comments are the hallmarks of a man who is begging for the bullet. The who would be better comment is a classic challenge to the board.
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Even by some miracle we win today it's just delaying the inevitable. He isn't up to the job, it's beyond him.
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I am comming round to the idea we might as well stick with him until we can get somebody to come and really change the philosophy. You just know these idiots will appoint Moyes which will take us further into the dark ages.
Once we gave Bruce the summer our fate was sealed.
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Even by some miracle we win today it's just delaying the inevitable. He isn't up to the job, it's beyond him.
It needs someone who is either tactically so bloody good that we just find a way through, or that has got the charisma to pick the club up. A bit like Wagner and Klopp, half their success is on pure personality.
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if the rumours are true and we have already started sounding out other managers then it's just a matter of time
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Bumpity bump on this one, now that just about everyone's ready for Bruce to piss off again?
Been some upheaval re the managers listed on the poll. Seems like the current favourite on this board is Dean Smith, but I'd personally still go with Karanka.
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Bumpity bump on this one, now that just about everyone's ready for Bruce to piss off again?
Been some upheaval re the managers listed on the poll. Seems like the current favourite on this board is Dean Smith, but I'd personally still go with Karanka.
Jokanovic, Smith, Howe (maybe he feels he’s done as much as he can at Bournemouth), we missed out on Rowett when we had the chance and also Lee Johnson.
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Questions for the better informed than me.
Was Agnew a Bruce appointment or was he imposed on him?
Did Agnew work under Karanka at Boro?
Just putting 2 and 2 together and possibly coming up with 5 or more.
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Questions for the better informed than me.
Was Agnew a Bruce appointment or was he imposed on him?
Did Agnew work under Karanka at Boro?
Just putting 2 and 2 together and possibly coming up with 5 or more.
According to Bruce, he's been wanting to bring him in for a while.
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SB worked with him at Hull.
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Can we add Wood Slime to the options?
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Who is wood slime?
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need a new poll and take off Moyes , Sam and Pardew and maybe add John Terry too
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Put Koeman on.
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shit John terry is there ........... too much Gin
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Who is wood slime?
A victim of a cruel medical experiment conducted by yellow running dog imperialists from the so-called Massachusetts Institute of Technology at the so-called Cambridge University using festering swamp materials from the so-called Fens of the wretched flat lands of so-called East Anglia.
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shit John terry is there ........... too much Gin
Terry would be better than Bruce, as would gin. In fact I can think of many things, human, inanimate, plants, street signs, pets etc that would be better.
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Who is wood slime?
A victim of a cruel medical experiment conducted by yellow running dog imperialists from the so-called Massachusetts Institute of Technology at the so-called Cambridge University using festering swamp materials from the so-called Fens of the wretched flat lands of so-called East Anglia.
I think he'd get us up but we'd need a better option after that.
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Who is wood slime?
A victim of a cruel medical experiment conducted by yellow running dog imperialists from the so-called Massachusetts Institute of Technology at the so-called Cambridge University using festering swamp materials from the so-called Fens of the wretched flat lands of so-called East Anglia.
I think he'd get us up but we'd need a better option after that.
Agreed. He could reprogram Gabby and Richards into useful tools but he turn Villa Park into a massive bio-nuclear tank and have a pop at Russia and China.
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Put Koeman on.
Ditto
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This poll needs to be properly reset really. I mean who the hell thinks fastsam is going to come to us currently?!
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Terry would be better than Bruce
Why would Terry be better than Bruce ?
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I have reset the poll, replaced those recently employed as they are not options, and put in some of those now out of work.
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I have reset the poll, replaced those recently employed as they are not options, and put in some of those now out of work.
cheers ozzjim. At least it doesn't look like we're all delusional now!
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Terry / Shakespear double team
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Should we wait till the end of the Euros when Gareth Southgate is out of work? ;)
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This poll needs to be properly reset really. I mean who the hell thinks fastsam is going to come to us currently?!
fatsam is a non-starter but flotsam and jetsam are worth a flutter ffs.
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I wouldn't mind Nigel Pearson or Dean Smith, but if we go British I would prefer Rowett. If we go foreign I wouldn't mind Prandelli or Tuchel but would prefer Sanchez Flores.
Final answer Chris......Sanchez Flores.
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Terry would be better than Bruce
Why would Terry be better than Bruce ?
Because he’s not Steve Bruce
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I voted Koeman because he’s out of work and has built a team in the past. Did a great job at Southampton and hasn’t become a bad manager all of a sudden. I don’t see Bielsa at this stage of his life /career as what we need right now. Rodgers isn’t leaving Celtic where it’s not even a challenge and they love him. Dyche maybe but he won’t leave now for sure. And forget Paul Clement. He gets fired all the time as manager.
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Should we wait till the end of the Euros when Gareth Southgate is out of work? ;)
World Cup innit?
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No to Dean Smith. Being able to beat Villa isn't any sort of recommendation. McLeish, Lambert, Sherwood, Di Matteo and Bruce all managed that (probably, can't be arsed to check).
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My old man used to complain that the Villa of his youth (either side of WW2) had a habit of buying players who did well against us, not realising that if they were playing for us they didn't have the freedom afforded to the opposition. I have a horrible feeling we are showing the same signs with the calls for Dean Smith. He might be a manager who would improve anyone he went to, but he might also be looking good to us twice a season. Still, whoever our next boss is he will be the best in the world.
Until he isn't.
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Should we wait till the end of the Euros when Gareth Southgate is out of work? ;)
World Cup innit?
Oops. We definitely won't have to wait another two and a half years for him to be available.
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Gone for Terry til the end of the season. Nothing to lose really. Hopefully he'd improve the standard of football by playing the sort of tactics he's used to and likes. Also i'd hope he'd use his connections to get a bit of quality on loan from Conte. We may even go on a winning run and surprise everyone. Re-assess in the summer and go from there.
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
Because he's not currently insane? Anyway please god not another ex-blose manager. Haven't we learnt our lesson?
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
Because he's not currently insane? Anyway please god not another ex-blose manager. Haven't we learnt our lesson?
Why should it matter where he's come from?
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
Because he's not currently insane? Anyway please god not another ex-blose manager. Haven't we learnt our lesson?
Why should it matter where he's come from?
It shouldn't really but given previous experiences, do you wanna risk it?
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The doc has tweeted. It indicates to me that big Steve isn’t leaving just yet.
I despair.
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
Because he's not currently insane? Anyway please god not another ex-blose manager. Haven't we learnt our lesson?
Why should it matter where he's come from?
It shouldn't really but given previous experiences, do you wanna risk it?
Mcleish was just an insane appointment. Bruce was understandable even if it didnt meet everyone's approval. Rowett probably would go down better.
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
Because he's not currently insane? Anyway please god not another ex-blose manager. Haven't we learnt our lesson?
Why should it matter where he's come from?
It shouldn't really but given previous experiences, do you wanna risk it?
I'd be wary, not because of the previous ones but because of the fuckwits who'd be against him from the start for that very reason.
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
Because he's not currently insane? Anyway please god not another ex-blose manager. Haven't we learnt our lesson?
Why should it matter where he's come from?
It shouldn't really but given previous experiences, do you wanna risk it?
I'd be wary, not because of the previous ones but because of the fuckwits who'd be against him from the start for that very reason.
Is the right answer.
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nah it's never a good idea. hardly ever works and it would be a bit mental with the hundreds of manager's knocking around we manage to pick 3 ex-blose managers in 6 years.It's not like blose have been doing anything of note in that time either
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
He should be but just don’t see him leaving a very situation at Derby. He’s done a super job there with almost nothing to spend.
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Billic
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The doc has tweeted. It indicates to me that big Steve isn’t leaving just yet.
I despair.
What you want him to say? Bruce is one game from the sack?
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Out of interest, why is Gary Rowett not on the list?
Because he's not currently insane? Anyway please god not another ex-blose manager. Haven't we learnt our lesson?
Why should it matter where he's come from?
It shouldn't really but given previous experiences, do you wanna risk it?
I'd be wary, not because of the previous ones but because of the fuckwits who'd be against him from the start for that very reason.
well not sure Bruce's time at blose has been rammed down his throat by people on here. TSM, yeah there was a bit of that. My own view is they tend to have crap managers who play awful football so why we'd employ one is open to question . Rowett seems a decent manager but again he seems very much in the bruce mould.
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Anybody seriously think Rodgers will consider us over Celtic?
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I don't get the love-in with Dean Smith. He manages a bang average-at-best side, no more. So they beat Villa, so do Cardiff, but no-one wants Colin. So will Middlesbrough (probably) but no-one wants Pulis.
Dr Tony wants us to be Premier League plus, so appoint an experienced PL manager. Sell the vision Tony, and they will come. Then you can extend the infrastructure, but without a team worth the name, not gonna happen.
Spend money on the correct objectives, for God's sake, don't give Bruce any more!
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Billic
Overrated in my opinion. And he has a limp.
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I voted Koeman because he’s out of work and has built a team in the past. Did a great job at Southampton and hasn’t become a bad manager all of a sudden. I don’t see Bielsa at this stage of his life /career as what we need right now. Rodgers isn’t leaving Celtic where it’s not even a challenge and they love him. Dyche maybe but he won’t leave now for sure. And forget Paul Clement. He gets fired all the time as manager.
Koeman benefitted from the work Pochettino did at Southampton. They got lucky Everton paid big bucks for him when they did, by all accounts a man that saw himself too big for that job is unlikely to ingratiate himself with our fans.
I understand the people saying no to Smith on the basis that Brentford are mid table, but even when they started the season slowly, they were creating more chances and playing other sides off the park every week. He has created a really good side that know how they are expected to play each week, and had to sell their better players to do so. I think he would do very well for us and the squad we have.
I have seen a few suggest Bilic, but hes done very little in club football to actually create a side and style of play etc that I can see.
Rodgers would be amazing, but won't leave Celtic unless he had a pot of gold and real opportunity to carry through a project, and with FFP we are screwed on that front.
Lee Johnson looks a hell of a good young manager, but something about him reminds me of the Paul Jewell/ Paul Lambert type of manager, maybe he has it right at 1 club but would not be able to replicate it. Could be worth a good look though, and we were rumoured to be interested last time.
Terry we need in the team, so not yet!
Which brings me back to Jokanovic. Won promotion before, created a good side on nothing at Fulham, plays very attractive football and seems to have an eye for a player. I reckon he would be ready for a move too. Between him and Smith for me.
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Had a look at the Swansea betting list, as probably that's a similar market to where we might be shopping.
I don't get the love-in with Dean Smith. He manages a bang average-at-best side, no more. So they beat Villa, so do Cardiff, but no-one wants Colin. So will Middlesbrough (probably) but no-one wants Pulis.
Dr Tony wants us to be Premier League plus, so appoint an experienced PL manager. Sell the vision Tony, and they will come. Then you can extend the infrastructure, but without a team worth the name, not gonna happen.
Spend money on the correct objectives, for God's sake, don't give Bruce any more!
Well, as he's a Villa man, you'd hope he would give a shit about us, and understand what the club needs and the fans want.
Also, he's keeping Brentford far above their budget and typical status - pound-for-pound he's doing incredibly well.
Even if he was just basically competent at picking a balanced team and organising it, he'd be a step up from pretty much every manager since Houllier.
That said, I suspect he'd just be digging his managerial grave coming here (as will almost anyone who takes up the Villa job).
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so we're fucked, right?
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if we ever did get dean Smith , he would save us £10 million straight away as he would know how to get Hogan to score goals . He can bring Rico Henry and Ryan woods with him and grab us a Canos type signing too and feck off Snodgrass .
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I think it is too early for Smith.
Would Jokanovic come to Villa? - not sure.
At this moment in time, I think it has to be someone like Koeman or de Boer: both have experience of working in clubs where the academy is taken seriously and seen as a genuine feeder for the first-team squad; both are 'serious' candidates; both see beyond the narrow confines of the English game; both will bring some gravitas to the role and have credibility within the club
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The ongoing debate about the loss of Terry and Kodjia started me thinking that I really would like a manager with persuasive skills. Somebody to get what he wants by charm, guile and diplomacy.. Another SGT if you will. When Kodjia wanted to go to the ACON despite the Villa doctors advising against it, it would have been good if we had had a manager who could have made him change his mind. Likewise when Nathan Baker wanted away it would have been good to have had a manager able to get him to stay. A good communicator with the players.
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We don’t what conversations took place though Brian. Is it any different to SGT not being able to get McGrath to give up alcohol? You know he must have tried and just ended up being good counsel and working with Paul to battle the demons. A good negotiator isn’t always successful and with Kodjia it was his first big national tournament. With Baker he just wanted to start and Bruce couldn’t guarantee it.
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I'm not sure we had any choice in regards to the Kodjia one. Besides, that is a tournament every African player would want to play in.
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Anybody seriously think Rodgers will consider us over Celtic?
Of course not. Very few decent managers currently in a job would jump ship at this time of the season.
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Maybe you are right, maybe not. Steve Bruce does not, and never has, come across to me as somebody who could talk a player into putting the club before his personal interests. It is not easy but it is what good management is all about. I put Nathan Baker in the same bracket as Marc Albrighton and Gary Cahill. It would not have taken that much more to get them to stay. Johnny Kodjia would have been a harder nut to crack but it was never going to be achieved by blunt, northern, Anglo Saxon Steve Bruce.
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Anybody seriously think Rodgers will consider us over Celtic?
Of course not. Very few decent managers currently in a job would jump ship at this time of the season.
Scottish Football management is a bit like managing one of the home nations everyone pretends its a massive job until you get offered a proper one
Didn’t Lennon swap Celtic for Bolton like Coleman ditched the Welsh for Sunderland as soon as it came up
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Bielsa would take the job. Jokanovic would come tomorrow. Flores would be interested. If we pot Bruce and the answer is Monk, or Smith, or Hurst at Shrewsbury, or Lee Johnson, or Redknapp, or whoever the fuck else from these isles I won't be impressed.
For every Dyche there are 20 Sherwood's. We need a tactically astute bloke from the continent, who is solid of mind on how we should play, and will not be overawed by expectations at a big club.
You could get a Bielsa, a Koeman, a Cocu. Please God not someone whose biggest managerial exploit is Shrewsbury though. They might turn out great but we need someone to walk in with a plan, gravitas in the dressing room and who is pretty confident they are great as well.
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I do smile at all these credible european coaches. Where was the ambition to get a Bielsa type when we'd finished 6th in the premier league three times in 2010?
I think that was the time to tempt them, not below that position in the championship.
John Terry is too valuable for us on the pitch to mess around with him as player manager. That used to be all the rage in the 90s (Gullit, Vialli, Strachan, Bryan Robson) but you hardly see anyone take on the duel role now as it's just too time-consuming.
Likely candidates for me are Dean Smith, Karanka, Alex Neil and yes maybe Jokanovic aswell as Fulham are underachieving a bit and he dosen't like the way they do transfers.
Outsider would be someone like Graham Potter. Done a magnificent job at Osterunds if you look them up, not just in Sweden but they're through to the europa league knock outs and will play Arsenal next round.
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I'm not sure we had any choice in regards to the Kodjia one. Besides, that is a tournament every African player would want to play in.
Yep, I don’t blame Bruce for any of that either
I actually think it’s wrong to try and make a player stay against his will
if a player wants to play international football he should be allowed to without being made to feel guilty about it
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Don't FIFA ban players from playing for clubs during the tournament if they suspect it's not a genuine injury? Sure there's been examples of that.
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I am not suggesting that a player should not want to play for his country but they are professionals. Would it have been too wrong a move to put it to Kodjia that more lasting damage done by playing in the ACON could easily prejudice his future financial prospects. Bigger contracts with "bigger" clubs. Being out of the football spotlight for a season and a half is almost as detrimental to the player as his club. It's all water under the bridge.
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It was a shit or bust World Cup qualifier, I doubt anyone or anything would have stopped him going.
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I think he's probably got 2 more games to get a win but I do think Bruce will be fired at the start of January. He just isnt doing what is expected of him, the dross football is one thing, but he was supposed to be grinding our way up the league by now and he looks lost.
By then the automatic spots will be out of sight and we will need someone who can raise the existing squad plus possibly 1-2 loanees to get into the playoffs and win a 4 team tournament. The skills of building a team, youth development , transfer market experience etc are all great but skills that are useless or inapplicable until the summer (if FFP allows it). So unfashionable although it is I would go for a short term mix of a very experienced manager twinned with the on-pitch leadership of John Terry as assistant manager. Lets throw in Carlo Ancelotti as a nice name currently on a career break just to pep it up.
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Anybody seriously think Rodgers will consider us over Celtic?
Of course not. Very few decent managers currently in a job would jump ship at this time of the season.
Scottish Football management is a bit like managing one of the home nations everyone pretends its a massive job until you get offered a proper one
Didn’t Lennon swap Celtic for Bolton like Coleman ditched the Welsh for Sunderland as soon as it came up
At some point soon Rodgers will go. He's done everything and won everything you ever will with a Scottish team. He has a ridiculously high pressure job for a club that might have the supporter base of Barcelona but can only ever be Rapid Vienna or FC Basel. A few glorious European nights aside, they aren't going to play on the biggest stages.
The question is would we be his best offer at the time he wants to try something new. I don't think his stock is that high down here. He never gets mentioned as first choice when Prem teams sack someone and he has a tie against Zenit as his only real challenge on the horizon. If the package was attractive, any boss of Rangers or Celtic would move south.
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Eddie Howe
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Granted Bielsa's reputation has been tarnished by Lille, but if you look at his stats when he gets it right his win % is >50%. He seems lately to get it right every second club, so this could be the perfect time to get him in :)
I say no to Smith and the other Championship managers - if we have learned nothing from recent managerial appointments, the pressure and expectation can quickly ruin managers that lack experience and self-belief, the job is clearly be too big for some.
If it had to be Dyche or Rodgers, or maybe Howe then so be it. I'm not sure about Koeman or De Boer though.
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Granted Bielsa's reputation has been tarnished by Lille, but if you look at his stats when he gets it right his win % is >50%. He seems lately to get it right every second club, so this could be the perfect time to get him in :)
If we hired Bielsa I would be genuinely excited about the club for the first time in ages.
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there's more chance of Dr T recruiting Father Christmas than bringing in a grade A nut job like Bielsa
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As has been said on other threads, we need a builder-craftsman, not a journeyman. The job description should include:
- experience of working in clubs where the academy is taken seriously and seen as a genuine feeder for the first-team squad
- 'serious' candidates, with experience of building teams and winning with teams
- able to see beyond the narrow confines of the English game
- bring some gravitas to the role and able to develop their own personal credibility within the club
- acknowledge our past but recognise what it takes to develop a credible and successful future
If you apply this specc to the long list of possible candidates, I think either Koeman and de Boer would make a good fit.
I'd add Edie Howe and Sean Dyche but believe that both would be far out of reach at this time.
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Bielsa is unlikely but he is the sort of character we need, someone who has an established way of doing the job and has the confidence to just implement that wherever he is and whatever the circumstances. Lille (and a few other clubs) show that it doesn't always work but I'd be willing to guarantee that he's left a better coached squad behind even at the clubs where his tactics fail.
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the only time I ever see the name Bielsa mentioned anywhere is on this site
to me he’s like the Detectorists or Breaking Bad off the TV, I only started watching them because of the recommendations of H&V
so if Bielsa is as good as the tv recommends then let’s go get him, if only Wyness reads this site because he won’t have a clue who he is either
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Not that I think it will happen but if we are going to comment on Bielsa we should at least understand the circumstances to what happened at Lille. There's a good summary here (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/nov/30/marcelo-bielsas-short-lived-catastrophe-at-lille-is-coming-to-an-end).
It's pretty pointless hiring him unless you're prepared to give him the control he demands and support him financially with his transfer targets. To do the exact opposite was only going to end one way.
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Reading that article it sounds like he'd be a disastrous appointment.
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Dean Smith for me .
It's just him being a Villa fan is my only worry the pressure for him to succeed would be immense.
Could make him , could break him . I'd give him 3 yrs at least , it's time to take the gamble .
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Michael O'Neill? or his brother, Martin? ;-)
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I think Dean Smith would be a huge mistake, "He's got Villa in his blood" and a few good performances against us is nothing like enough for him to be overwhelming favourite, this is why we ended up with managers like Sherwood and Lambert as well.
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the only time I ever see the name Bielsa mentioned anywhere is on this site
to me he’s like the Detectorists or Breaking Bad off the TV, I only started watching them because of the recommendations of H&V
so if Bielsa is as good as the tv recommends then let’s go get him, if only Wyness reads this site because he won’t have a clue who he is either
The thing is, whoever's making the big footballing decisions at the club should bloody well have a wider pool of candidates at hand than what fans on a message board, or on Twitter can come up with. I mean, there's no chance that Huddersfield fans would've been coming up with Wagner, or Hull fans Marco Silva, or Leeds fans Christensen at the relevant times, yet clearly in each of those cases, the clubs have done their due diligence and picked the right man. I'm not saying to pick one of the usual suspects is necessarily bad either, but my gut feeling is that the club doesn't have the right decision-making processes in place.
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the only time I ever see the name Bielsa mentioned anywhere is on this site
to me he’s like the Detectorists or Breaking Bad off the TV, I only started watching them because of the recommendations of H&V
so if Bielsa is as good as the tv recommends then let’s go get him, if only Wyness reads this site because he won’t have a clue who he is either
The thing is, whoever's making the big footballing decisions at the club should bloody well have a wider pool of candidates at hand than what fans on a message board, or on Twitter can come up with. I mean, there's no chance that Huddersfield fans would've been coming up with Wagner, or Hull fans Marco Silva, or Leeds fans Christensen at the relevant times, yet clearly in each of those cases, the clubs have done their due diligence and picked the right man.
I'm sure that's the case. For example, I know it didn't work out but none of us on here mentioned Remi Garde.
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I think Dean Smith would be a huge mistake, "He's got Villa in his blood" and a few good performances against us is nothing like enough for him to be overwhelming favourite, this is why we ended up with managers like Sherwood and Lambert as well.
Eh, I think Lambert was a fair enough one at the time. Consecutive promotions, solidified Norwich as a PL team while playing decent football and without much of a budget, and was praised for his tactical flexibility and ability to improve the players he had. It didn't work out, but that happens sometimes - unfortunately, we compounded things by leaving it far too late to bin him though.
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Oscar Garcia. I think he's out of work too.
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Bielsa would take the job. Jokanovic would come tomorrow. Flores would be interested. If we pot Bruce and the answer is Monk, or Smith, or Hurst at Shrewsbury, or Lee Johnson, or Redknapp, or whoever the fuck else from these isles I won't be impressed.
For every Dyche there are 20 Sherwood's. We need a tactically astute bloke from the continent, who is solid of mind on how we should play, and will not be overawed by expectations at a big club.
You could get a Bielsa, a Koeman, a Cocu. Please God not someone whose biggest managerial exploit is Shrewsbury though. They might turn out great but we need someone to walk in with a plan, gravitas in the dressing room and who is pretty confident they are great as well.
What is wrong with appointing someone whose biggest managerial exploit so far is Shrewsbury?
Ah, hang on. I think I've remembered now. ;)
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Terry would be better than Bruce
Why would Terry be better than Bruce ?
Because he means Wogan and Forsyth?
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I'm not keen on smith. Don't really see being a villa fan as a major advantage, possibly the opposite.
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I think Dean Smith would be a huge mistake, "He's got Villa in his blood" and a few good performances against us is nothing like enough for him to be overwhelming favourite, this is why we ended up with managers like Sherwood and Lambert as well.
Eh, I think Lambert was a fair enough one at the time. Consecutive promotions, solidified Norwich as a PL team while playing decent football and without much of a budget, and was praised for his tactical flexibility and ability to improve the players he had. It didn't work out, but that happens sometimes - unfortunately, we compounded things by leaving it far too late to bin him though.
The problem with Lambert (and that would work against Smith as well) is that he'd always worked at clubs where there was no real pressure. As soon as he realised how big the job was he retreated from the open, attacking coach we'd seen at Norwich into the twunt who had us playing goal kicks to the corner flag. I firmly believe that he was given the job because Lerner didn't want the anger again so he went for the guy the fans chanted about. That appointment was the one that really turned me against Lerner because it was the one where he showed he had no plan or principles.
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Bielsa sounds crazy but we would play with attacking intent and that would be such a refreshing change! However, it could either be a great success or horribly disastrous
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I think the biggest problem with Lambert, and Sherwood, Garde and TSM for that matter is they were yes-men. Lerner paid them to manage during the rationalisation of the club, where as long as we stayed up that was acceptable. If one of them had come out and complained about the lack of investment and direction at the club i would have had some sympathy, but it was always "lerner - lovely guy" etc...
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http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11187204/steve-mcclaren-ends-maccabi-tel-aviv-stint-and-keen-on-coaching-role-in-england
Steve McClaren is looking for a job.
Personally I would rather stick with Bruce.
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McClaren (and Clement whilst I'm at it) are the definitive proof that there's a big difference between being a good assistant and being a good manager, both have great reputations as the former but have been shite whenever they've had the top job.
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Bielsa sounds crazy but we would play with attacking intent and that would be such a refreshing change! However, it could either be a great success or horribly disastrous
Bielsa sounds crazy but we would play with attacking intent and that would be such a refreshing change! However, it could either be a great success or horribly disastrous
in fairness the last bit could apply to anyone we appoint
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Well we can cross Carvahal's name off the list as he's got the Swansea job!
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Bielsa sounds crazy but we would play with attacking intent and that would be such a refreshing change! However, it could either be a great success or horribly disastrous
His record is very mixed, undoubtedly the hipsters choice though! I'd still have faith Bruce can muddle along to sneak us into playoffs. It won't be pretty and he urgently needs a win.
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Bielsa sounds crazy but we would play with attacking intent and that would be such a refreshing change! However, it could either be a great success or horribly disastrous
His record is very mixed, undoubtedly the hipsters choice though! I'd still have faith Bruce can muddle along to sneak us into playoffs. It won't be pretty and he urgently needs a win.
Honestly, I am not being funny, but what have you seen that makes you think Bruce will get us into the playoffs? Do you think he would get us up via the playoffs and should we accept limping into the playoffs?
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If we change manager in the summer, I wonder if Brendan Rodgers could be persuaded? Nothing else to prove at Celtic and, after his stint at Liverpool, unlikely to now get a top Premier League club.
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For me Bielsa isn’t a long term manager. He’s a much better and more exciting than Bruce but is he going to come in leave a legacy over many years at 62? He has managed 4 clubs in the past 6 years since be coached Chile. Not exactly stable or the definition of someone who will in it for the long haul or willing to start life in the Championship. For me, he’s the next step type manager once we are back in the PL versus right now.
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If we change manager in the summer, I wonder if Brendan Rodgers could be persuaded? Nothing else to prove at Celtic and, after his stint at Liverpool, unlikely to now get a top Premier League club.
Yeh you wouldn’t get him now. The question would be how does he view himself after Celtic? Success, CL football, adulation etc. Does he see himself exclusively as a PL level manager?
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For me Bielsa isn’t a long term manager. He’s a much better and more exciting than Bruce but is he going to come in leave a legacy over many years at 62? He has managed 4 clubs in the past 6 years since be coached Chile. Not exactly stable or the definition of someone who will in it for the long haul or willing to start life in the Championship. For me, he’s the next step type manager once we are back in the PL versus right now.
I agree but he would demand the players improve their basics and get them working on pressing and attacking movement, all of which makes me sure that even if only for a year-18months he'd have a huge impact on the club. My concern is that we just wouldn't be attractive to him right now.
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If we change manager in the summer, I wonder if Brendan Rodgers could be persuaded? Nothing else to prove at Celtic and, after his stint at Liverpool, unlikely to now get a top Premier League club.
Yeh you wouldn’t get him now. The question would be how does he view himself after Celtic? Success, CL football, adulation etc. Does he see himself exclusively as a PL level manager?
I would argue Rodgers' next challenge is to make them competitive in the Champions League, or he'll always look as if he's achieved everything when there was no real competition.
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If we change manager in the summer, I wonder if Brendan Rodgers could be persuaded? Nothing else to prove at Celtic and, after his stint at Liverpool, unlikely to now get a top Premier League club.
Yeh you wouldn’t get him now. The question would be how does he view himself after Celtic? Success, CL football, adulation etc. Does he see himself exclusively as a PL level manager?
I would argue Rodgers' next challenge is to make them competitive in the Champions League, or he'll always look as if he's achieved everything when there was no real competition.
I don’t think it’s every going to be possible at Celtic. They’ll always be in the competition but their revenue will never allow them to compete consistently with the big teams. When you see the likes of Liverpool spending £75m on a defender FFS what chance does Celtic have let alone the majority of all other teams?
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Rodgers would be the perfect man, but I don't think we have the possibility of attracting him. His next move will be interesting, I would not be surprised to see him back in the prem this summer though.
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I agree but he would demand the players improve their basics and get them working on pressing and attacking movement, all of which makes me sure that even if only for a year-18months he'd have a huge impact on the club. My concern is that we just wouldn't be attractive to him right now.
I agree, though there is one other small problem...apparently he doesn't speak English, though neither does Gabby, and I'm sure we could help him with a few key phrases like "move your lard arse", etc
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I am all for democracy but the individual who voted for Clement and the individual who voted for McLaren should be rounded up, killed and taken to Detroit. ;)
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Just seen McClaren has parted company with Maccabi Tel Aviv. Hopefully he will go and further ruin BCFC.
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Just seen McClaren has parted company with Maccabi Tel Aviv. Hopefully he will go and further ruin BCFC.
I think Wurzel Cotteridge has that angle well covered already.
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well while i'd rather have Lerner back then McClaren, it is worth pointing out that he did better at his last job at Derby than Bruce is doing with us.....*runs off*
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Bielsa is unlikely but he is the sort of character we need, someone who has an established way of doing the job and has the confidence to just implement that wherever he is and whatever the circumstances. Lille (and a few other clubs) show that it doesn't always work but I'd be willing to guarantee that he's left a better coached squad behind even at the clubs where his tactics fail.
Indeed. The man is a football genius. He really is. And regardless of results he always leaves club with the imprint of playing better high quality football.
I would bloody love it if he came here. Sadly I doubt he in on Wyness's radar. Xia though? He looks at world football outside of British hoof & hope, he might decide Bielsa or another modern techincal mmanager is the right choice.
But its the hope that kills you I suppose, doubtless we will end up with some other English "get the job done" crap manager :(
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I haven’t changed my view that I’d replace Bruce until the end of the season with Brian Little, wouldn’t be against McLaren being one of his coaches.
Think it’s imperative that the club is ridded of the negativity that is Bruce but getting a long term successor would be easier in the summer when managers currently in jobs aren’t in promotion or relegation battles.
Just can’t see Bruce getting us back on track and see it more likely that we finish 10th-12th than top 6 - for me at the start of season 3rd-6th finish would have been a sackable offence in the summer so this current malaise is just shocking.
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I see Dean Smith is comfortably winning the "who do you want as next manager of Aston Villa poll" (and deservedly so). I actually think he will be appointed manager in the summer (so long as Wyness and Round are making the decision, if left to Xia we could end up with someone like Zico!).
My gut tells me that we'll recover sufficiently to make the playoffs (probably 6th spot) once we loan in a target man striker in the window (probably Ulloa) and Terry returns. (It would also probably help if Bruce did the bleeding obvious and swapped in Doyles-Hayes for Whelan).
We are very unlikely to win the play-offs as we can't beat any off the top teams, so Bruce will leave at the end of the season and we'll be faced with having to try and engineer promotion with little money. Dean Smith is a proven success at building good teams with few funds. Brentford, a bit like Bristol City and Sheff Utd, are basically a team of journey-men who are well-drilled in effective possession and pressing.
The Daily Mirror (link below) are implying that Xia has already run out of money, if true (hmmm) then Dean Smith is even more of an imperative next season.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-chief-admits-december-11763565 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-chief-admits-december-11763565)
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Why "deservedly so"? Besides outwitting Bruce, what has he ever done?
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James Nursery at the mirror is someone I would never take any notice of.
As for the manager, I would take Dean Smith and think he would give the youth a chance. My major gripe with Bruce is his lack of use of the likes of O'Hare, though he keeps saying he is close to a start. Well if he is that close, put him on the bench at least rather than two right backs.
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I agree, though there is one other small problem...apparently he doesn't speak English, though neither does Gabby, and I'm sure we could help him with a few key phrases like "move your lard arse", etc
[/quote]
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Rodgers would be the perfect man, but I don't think we have the possibility of attracting him. His next move will be interesting, I would not be surprised to see him back in the prem this summer though.
Agree. Celtic was a smart move for him at the time, as he couldn't really afford a failure in England at that point. He might fancy another crack at the Champions League next season, but finishing 3rd in a group is probably their ceiling in that competition and he's achieved that.
Like you, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a job South of the border again soon.
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Can't help but see Bielsa as more of an ideas man than someone with the practical nous to transform them into consistent success on the field - acknowledging, of course, that he did handy work for a while at Bilbao and Marseille before things went pear-shaped and before that in South America.
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why did Bielsa leave Bilbao sacked or moved on ?
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Like someone said on here the other day, I've never heard of this Bielsa apart from on here. I'm not that up on European football though but it does sound like he's had a fair few jobs.
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Like someone said on here the other day, I've never heard of this Bielsa apart from on here. I'm not that up on European football though but it does sound like he's had a fair few jobs.
You might well have seen some his teams, Bilbao beat Man Utd in the Europa whilst he was there and the Argentina Olympic team in 2004 was probably the best example of what he does.
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why did Bielsa leave Bilbao sacked or moved on ?
IIRC, it was a mutual thing because they regressed in his second season there (not helped by selling Javi Martinez to Bayern, mind you). Not sure you can get players to keep running like maniacs the way he does for a sustain period of time, and that'd be even more of a thing in a 46 game season.
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As I recall, they made the finals of the Europa League and Copa del Rey. They would have played a lot more than forty-six games.
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I know I'm going to get slated for this but here goes. I really wouldn't object to JT getting some sort of assistant / managers post with someone with experience alongside ? Brian Little.
People can say and think what they like as far as being a person is concerned however he has shown he is a professional footballer who has maintained as much as an injury allows been a model professional. I'm not a huge fan of his and did think this was going to be a bit more for his pension pot like Pires but he has been a fantastic addition to the squad and can help the younger players and those around him.
He as a player has played at the highest level and worked under many very good managers both home grown and international so you would hope he had some new and interesting ideas.
Just my point of view we are going nowhere fast under current mangement other than backwards. I will now retreat behind the parapet.
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I know I'm going to get slated for this but here goes. I really wouldn't object to JT getting some sort of assistant / managers post with someone with experience alongside ? Brian Little.
People can say and think what they like as far as being a person is concerned however he has shown he is a professional footballer who has maintained as much as an injury allows been a model professional. I'm not a huge fan of his and did think this was going to be a bit more for his pension pot like Pires but he has been a fantastic addition to the squad and can help the younger players and those around him.
He as a player has played at the highest level and worked under many very good managers both home grown and international so you would hope he had some new and interesting ideas.
Just my point of view we are going nowhere fast under current mangement other than backwards. I will now retreat behind the parapet.
I'd accept him as player-assistant or player-coach. There's no way that his first non-playing role should be as our manager, even if it is with someone experienced to help him out (oh and no to Little as well, he's been out of the game for far too long).
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JT was effectively the Chelsea manager but that team picked itself.
A choice between Bruce and Terry I would take Terry right now as we need a change.
But agree as player manager until the end of the season.
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Let him concentrate on playing. Player-coaches hardly ever work. And Little hasn't been successful anywhere since the nineties.
It's a no, from me.
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To be honest the Little comment was a little rose tinted glasses type comment as I couldn't think of anyone else. However I do think he may do ok as a player coach type roll
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why did Bielsa leave Bilbao sacked or moved on ?
Bilbao " Parted company " with him in 2013 and he has just been sacked by Lille after a , quote " short lived catastrophe".
His record , during his first season at Bilbao was outstanding when he led the club to both the finals of the Europa League and Copa del Rey , along with a sixth-placed finish in La Liga. But the next season was spent fighting Relegation......
Barge Pole... not to be touched with..................Godzvilla!
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why did Bielsa leave Bilbao sacked or moved on ?
Bilbao " Parted company " with him in 2013 and he has just been sacked by Lille after a , quote " short lived catastrophe".
His record , during his first season at Bilbao was outstanding when he led the club to both the finals of the Europa League and Copa del Rey , along with a sixth-placed finish in La Liga. But the next season was spent fighting Relegation......
Barge Pole... not to be touched with..................Godzvilla!
bit of everything there then
I'm sure we all know which bit we'd end up with knowing our luck
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If we're looking for somebody that has experience of managing a big club and the expectations that go with it, plays attractive, progressive football, could set the blue print for the 'Villa Engine', a man all the players would be in awe of and add to that is a Villa fan...
Step forward Cesare Prandelli.
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a man all the players would be in awe of ...
Are players really capable of being in awe of managers these days? I'd love to think so....but they are such pampered bling-merchants that they don't give a rat's arse about a manager's reputation or status.
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a man all the players would be in awe of ...
Are players really capable of being in awe of managers these days? I'd love to think so....but they are such pampered bling-merchants that they don't give a rat's arse about a manager's reputation or status.
I'd generally agree but think there are one or two exceptions, Cesare Prandelli being one.
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a man all the players would be in awe of ...
Are players really capable of being in awe of managers these days? I'd love to think so....but they are such pampered bling-merchants that they don't give a rat's arse about a manager's reputation or status.
A lot probably are but we have a clutch of players who must be detached from reality. If I was a Nzogbia or Richards or Agbonlahor, coining it in and delivering bog all under the scrutiny of fans and fellow professionals I'd die of shame. Irrespective of a manager's standing he has to be fully supported in breaking twats of this ilk. Why does JT look so professional in comparison? Why? And why do we even need to refer to it? When some more ,err, pragmatic posters still talk about the relative merit of Gabby it makes me want to punch the Internet.
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For me Prandelli is like Bielsa. They operate at a higher level. Would they really be willing to schlep it in the Championship at this stage of their life? I’d love to have them as managers in the PL if we ever get back there.
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a man all the players would be in awe of ...
Are players really capable of being in awe of managers these days? I'd love to think so....but they are such pampered bling-merchants that they don't give a rat's arse about a manager's reputation or status.
A lot probably are but we have a clutch of players who must be detached from reality. If I was a Nzogbia or Richards or Agbonlahor, coining it in and delivering bog all under the scrutiny of fans and fellow professionals I'd die of shame. Irrespective of a manager's standing he has to be fully supported in breaking twats of this ilk. Why does JT look so professional in comparison? Why? And why do we even need to refer to it? When some more ,err, pragmatic posters still talk about the relative merit of Gabby it makes me want to punch the Internet.
In years gone by, the threat of being frozen out was enough for players to want to move on. That has changed now and I suspect the likes of Richards, Agbonlahor and countless others are probably perfectly happy with that situation as long as the money continues to roll in. With that threat now gone, the players hold all the cards which makes avoiding signing complete charlatans very important.
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For me Prandelli is like Bielsa. They operate at a higher level. Would they really be willing to schlep it in the Championship at this stage of their life? I’d love to have them as managers in the PL if we ever get back there.
Prandelli is working in Dubai at the moment. I reckon he'd jump at the chance but we'll never know unless we ask him.
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Forgive me as I posted on the Bruce out article suggesting Strachan. So here is where I suggest opinion on him. He has the dynamics and character Bruce lacks. From the pole Clement or Monk as they are attainable however from pole I take joankanvic now and give him big platform and budget and voted him. Rodgers would be 2nd choice end of season
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For me Prandelli is like Bielsa. They operate at a higher level. Would they really be willing to schlep it in the Championship at this stage of their life? I’d love to have them as managers in the PL if we ever get back there.
Prandelli is working in Dubai at the moment. I reckon he'd jump at the chance but we'll never know unless we ask him.
I would love either. Good shout.
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For me Prandelli is like Bielsa. They operate at a higher level. Would they really be willing to schlep it in the Championship at this stage of their life? I’d love to have them as managers in the PL if we ever get back there.
Prandelli is working in Dubai at the moment. I reckon he'd jump at the chance but we'll never know unless we ask him.
Think he walked out on Valencia because they didn't follow through on the funds he was promised. I guess that's a little bit different to simply working on a tight budget, but I suspect he wouldn't be massively up for that.
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Andreas Villas Boas is available. Ive always wanted him to be our manager, much in the same way I always wanted David Villa to sign for us. It just seems like a good fit.
I'm sure he must have a soft spot for us.
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Andreas Villas Boas is available. Ive always wanted him to be our manager, much in the same way I always wanted David Villa to sign for us. It just seems like a good fit.
I'm sure he must have a soft spot for us.
His name is Andrew Villa’s Boss in English so you’d think so.
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Andreas Villas Boas is available. Ive always wanted him to be our manager, much in the same way I always wanted David Villa to sign for us. It just seems like a good fit.
I'm sure he must have a soft spot for us.
His name is Andrew Villa’s Boss in English so you’d think so.
I don't trust his super deep voice when things start going bad to the point he is entirely inaudible. But maybe he'll have the same success as when Arsenal appointed Arsene.
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Andreas Villas Boas is available. Ive always wanted him to be our manager, much in the same way I always wanted David Villa to sign for us. It just seems like a good fit.
I'm sure he must have a soft spot for us.
His name is Andrew Villa’s Boss in English so you’d think so.
I don't trust his super deep voice when things start going bad to the point he is entirely inaudible. But maybe he'll have the same success as when Arsenal appointed Arsene.
wasn't his football pretty negative ??
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Andreas Villas Boas is available. Ive always wanted him to be our manager, much in the same way I always wanted David Villa to sign for us. It just seems like a good fit.
I'm sure he must have a soft spot for us.
His name is Andrew Villa’s Boss in English so you’d think so.
I don't trust his super deep voice when things start going bad to the point he is entirely inaudible. But maybe he'll have the same success as when Arsenal appointed Arsene.
wasn't his football pretty negative ??
I always though we missed out by not signing Ricardo Villa.
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Andreas Villas Boas is available. Ive always wanted him to be our manager, much in the same way I always wanted David Villa to sign for us. It just seems like a good fit.
I'm sure he must have a soft spot for us.
His name is Andrew Villa’s Boss in English so you’d think so.
I don't trust his super deep voice when things start going bad to the point he is entirely inaudible. But maybe he'll have the same success as when Arsenal appointed Arsene.
wasn't his football pretty negative ??
Not to mention the ridiculous crouching on the touchline
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Andreas Villas Boas is available. Ive always wanted him to be our manager, much in the same way I always wanted David Villa to sign for us. It just seems like a good fit.
I'm sure he must have a soft spot for us.
His name is Andrew Villa’s Boss in English so you’d think so.
I don't trust his super deep voice when things start going bad to the point he is entirely inaudible. But maybe he'll have the same success as when Arsenal appointed Arsene.
wasn't his football pretty negative ??
Not to mention the ridiculous crouching on the touchline
Only possible because he’d never player serious level football.
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What ever whoever Bruce will never be the bringer of good football to Villa Park, if by some miracle we got promoted who would let him anywhere near the transfer kitty. We won great but I still want him gone.
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What ever whoever Bruce will never be the bringer of good football to Villa Park, if by some miracle we got promoted who would let him anywhere near the transfer kitty. We won great but I still want him gone.
The same people will be in charge of transfers whoever the manager is.
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What ever whoever Bruce will never be the bringer of good football to Villa Park, if by some miracle we got promoted who would let him anywhere near the transfer kitty. We won great but I still want him gone.
The same people will be in charge of transfers whoever the manager is.
Bruce claimed he had persude and bought Hogan.
Snodgrass and Elmo turning up was a coincidence?
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And his mate is now head coach.
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I see Warburton has got the tin-tack. Seems a slightly strange one seeing he saved them from relegation last season.
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Forest are an utter basket case aren't they.
Brentford looked good again yesterday. Smith is going to end up being snapped up by someone better than Brentford sooner or later.
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Forest are an utter basket case aren't they.
Won only one fewer than us but only the Noses have lost more than them.
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Imagine what a half decent manager/coach could do with our squad?
Live the dream.