The Cricket Thread 2017

[OzVilla]

We should be packing players off to play down under in the winter before the Ashes to give them a feel for Sheffield Shield cricket and flat pitches where you toil unless you can make one zip through

This.

Never going to happen, the are only 6 States playing Sheffield Shield so they don't really allow overseas players to play in the way our county sides do.  Grade cricket is the only way to get experience which in fairness virtually every good young English cricketer has experienced over the years, but the structure is for 2 day matches played over 2 consecutive weekends.

I played in the Midlands and then Surrey we always had A grade Aussies over for the English summer as our overseas pro - you were allowed one paid overseas pro per team and we got them straight out of the academy which was then centered in Adelaide.  They basically all said that the Cricket is much tougher in Oz and that you valued your wicket very highly as if you got out cheaply on the first Saturday you'd be watching for the rest of the day and then fielding the next week - then if the Skipper lost the toss in the next game you'd be in the field again, it could be 3 weeks between innings. So you really valued your wicket. The UK format was that we batted every weekend in a 60 overs format.  They loved that as failure didn't have such greater consequences as they'd still bat every week.  They were tough cricketers too.

[olaftab]

Good info OzVilla and the toughness thing is important.

[UK Redsox]

What changes (if any) would the H&V selection committee make for Melbourne ?

I assume that Overton won't play due to injury.

Broad and Moeen both should be dropped. Broad is struggling with the ball due to injury and lack of form. He has also completely lost confidence as a batter since he was hit.
In light of being in Lyon's pocket as a batter, Moeen needs to be spinning it a mile to be worth a place in the team. Again, injury and lack of form is preventing this.

I've no clue what can be done about the batting. It's not like Root or Cook are going to be left out and, in any case, there's no real alternatives.

[tony scott]

It doesn't matter what we do this series is lost ,if we had better alternatives in the squad we should have been ruthless and made changes after the second test.

[Ads]

You can coach players through to bowl at 90mph. Speed is a skill, its nothing innate, we're just not making efforts to produce players to do this. This is the series we all want to win, so why aren't the ECB putting in place the coaches and the programmes to support the counties in producing this.

Financial incentives to produce leg spinners, produce fast bowlers beyond the medium pace dobber who can swing and reverse it a little in overcast English green top pitches.

Get them to Australia, get them to South Africa- experience flat and bouncy pitches and something different than the Duke ball.

[Ads]

Wood should come in for Broad. Crane for Moeen? Does it really matter if we weaken the lower order?

[PaulWinch again]

I wouldn't drop Moeen, he was excellent in the summer and has had a poor few games.

As an aside good to hear Overton state he can get balls up around 87/88 mph and he's working on sustaining that pace.

[tomd2103]

What changes (if any) would the H&V selection committee make for Melbourne ?

I assume that Overton won't play due to injury.

Broad and Moeen both should be dropped. Broad is struggling with the ball due to injury and lack of form. He has also completely lost confidence as a batter since he was hit.
In light of being in Lyon's pocket as a batter, Moeen needs to be spinning it a mile to be worth a place in the team. Again, injury and lack of form is preventing this.

I've no clue what can be done about the batting. It's not like Root or Cook are going to be left out and, in any case, there's no real alternatives.

I don't really see the point in making a lot of changes now too be honest.  The three batsmen we were all concerned about before the tour started have done OK and probably deserve to keep their places in the remaining two tests.  I suppose we could have a look at Foakes keeping and play Bairstow solely as a batsman.  I suppose Curran and Crane could also be given a chance, but I would be wary of thrusting them into this mess.

[paul_e]

You can coach players through to bowl at 90mph. Speed is a skill, its nothing innate, we're just not making efforts to produce players to do this. This is the series we all want to win, so why aren't the ECB putting in place the coaches and the programmes to support the counties in producing this.

Financial incentives to produce leg spinners, produce fast bowlers beyond the medium pace dobber who can swing and reverse it a little in overcast English green top pitches.

Get them to Australia, get them to South Africa- experience flat and bouncy pitches and something different than the Duke ball.

The bold bit is key, those players are no more effective in English conditions that medium pace swingers and hard to dominate offies but they require specialist coaching and, in the case of the leggies, huge amounts of game time to build up the experience needed.  Given the already perilous finances for many of the counties they're just not going to take that on unless they get incentives.

[Ads]

That's why I'm suggesting an incentive from the ECB. Heck, pay the Indian states to take players on.

[ColinMac]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

[paul_e]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

[paul_e]

That's why I'm suggesting an incentive from the ECB. Heck, pay the Indian states to take players on.

I'd personally see if we could make some arrangements with the West Indies, helps us with the real pace bowlers and gets some money into the test game for them.  Could probably work with somewhere like Bangladesh as well to help the spinners.

[ColinMac]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

Yep, that worked out for Steve Harmison.

[tomd2103]

You can coach players through to bowl at 90mph. Speed is a skill, its nothing innate, we're just not making efforts to produce players to do this. This is the series we all want to win, so why aren't the ECB putting in place the coaches and the programmes to support the counties in producing this.

Financial incentives to produce leg spinners, produce fast bowlers beyond the medium pace dobber who can swing and reverse it a little in overcast English green top pitches.

Get them to Australia, get them to South Africa- experience flat and bouncy pitches and something different than the Duke ball.

The bold bit is key, those players are no more effective in English conditions that medium pace swingers and hard to dominate offies but they require specialist coaching and, in the case of the leggies, huge amounts of game time to build up the experience needed.  Given the already perilous finances for many of the counties they're just not going to take that on unless they get incentives.

I remember Mike Atherton talking about the subject of spinners and saying that the season up here doesn't really suit them.  A lot of the four day stuff is played earlier on in the summer when conditions aren't suitable for spin and a lot of the games are now played at the County grounds and not some of the outlying venues which traditionally do turn.

I don't think we will ever produce a genuinely express bowler because the minute a kid pitches up at a cricket club in this country, they have "line and length" drilled into them.  Any perceived fault with their action is ironed out, often at the expense of a few extra yards of pace (for example, the action of Mitchell Johnson or Malinga probably would have never made it through junior cricket in this country).