The Cricket Thread 2017

[paul_e]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

Yep, that worked out for Steve Harmison.

Simon Jones says hello seeing as we're playing name a quick to support your argument.

[tomd2103]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

Yep, that worked out for Steve Harmison.

Simon Jones says hello seeing as we're playing name a quick to support your argument.

Chris Tremlett did pretty well last time we won down there, so does that extra bounce come into the equation as well as pace?  Again mentioning Mike Atherton, I remember him saying that McGrath and Ambrose were so hard to face because they consistently put the ball on length and the extra bounce their height generated didn't allow him to get forward. 

[paul_e]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

Yep, that worked out for Steve Harmison.

Simon Jones says hello seeing as we're playing name a quick to support your argument.

Chris Tremlett did pretty well last time we won down there, so does that extra bounce come into the equation as well as pace?  Again mentioning Mike Atherton, I remember him saying that McGrath and Ambrose were so hard to face because they consistently put the ball on length and the extra bounce their height generated didn't allow him to get forward. 

Bounce is a funny one because if you look at someone like Broad he should be good at that but he loses too much pace when he tries to bang it in and they become easy meat for a good backfoot player (which is pretty much all the australians).  remlett did well because he was only banging the odd one or 2 in and the rest were bordering on full, I very nearly wrote a line about quicks being at their best bowling full or short and largely avoiding good length stuff (on aussie pitches) which was pretty much Tremlett's approach.  Cummins is a good example as well, he bowls short stuff well and he bowls fuller stuff well (in both cases he takes wickets and doesn't go for many), when he starts bowling at a good length he gets milked.

[olaftab]

To answer UKRedsox’s being as I fly off tomorrow to be there in Melbourne for the Boxing Day start I would like to see Cook, Ali and Broad dropped, Anderson rested. All replaced by  Ballance, Crane, Ball and Foakes as batsman. Vince and Stoneman to open Foakes at 3. If replacement can be called up like to see Hales and Plunkett come in. Come on England.....FFS!

[ColinMac]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

Yep, that worked out for Steve Harmison.

Simon Jones says hello seeing as we're playing name a quick to support your argument.

Simon Jones who managed one session of test cricket in Australia in his career?

[paul_e]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

Yep, that worked out for Steve Harmison.

Simon Jones says hello seeing as we're playing name a quick to support your argument.

Simon Jones who managed one session of test cricket in Australia in his career?

Yep, because he's the type of bowler we should be looking for not a tall bouncy one like Harmison.  Aside from that everyone expected him to have a superb tour that year and the injury at the very start was a huge blow.  The way he bowled against Australia a few years later showed why he'd have been incredibly effective because they really struggled with his line.

[tomd2103]

To answer UKRedsox’s being as I fly off tomorrow to be there in Melbourne for the Boxing Day start I would like to see Cook, Ali and Broad dropped, Anderson rested. All replaced by  Ballance, Crane, Ball and Foakes as batsman. Vince and Stoneman to open Foakes at 3. If replacement can be called up like to see Hales and Plunkett come in. Come on England.....FFS!

Feel a bit gutted for you and others who are going over after we have already lost the series, but then they are still test matches at the MCG and SCG which should be great.  Are you doing any of the ODIs!

[tomd2103]

I dont think its about pace bowling.. Glen McGrath was never express pace and he took 500+ wickets, in the later years of his career, Ryan Harris wasnt express pace and he caused England all sorts of problems. The Waugh brothers were handy bowlers and neither had express pace... all took plenty of wickets in Australian conditions with the Kookaburra ball.

If you are bowling around the 85mph mark then line and length are key, thats where the English bowling unit failed, not because of a lack of pace, but because they consistently bowled the wrong length and didnt bowl with enough control.

If you're a medium pace bowler used to that ball and those pitches then you naturally bowl fuller than a traditional 'good' length so your natural action and style is effective because you're bowling at the top of 3rd/4th stump and forcing batsman to play almost every delivery.  If you're a medium pacer in English conditions you can't bowl that length consistently or you'll get driven out of the attack so you have to bowl shorter and slightly wider and concentrate on taking edges rather than hitting the stumps.  That's why getting the bowlers a lot more time in those conditions would be good for us.

Quicks have more room for error if they don't get the length quite right which is why they have less problems translating performances onto those pitches.

Yep, that worked out for Steve Harmison.

Simon Jones says hello seeing as we're playing name a quick to support your argument.

Simon Jones who managed one session of test cricket in Australia in his career?

Yep, because he's the type of bowler we should be looking for not a tall bouncy one like Harmison.  Aside from that everyone expected him to have a superb tour that year and the injury at the very start was a huge blow.  The way he bowled against Australia a few years later showed why he'd have been incredibly effective because they really struggled with his line.

Wood and Plunkett are obvious options to come in, but there are worries about the fitness of the former.  I don't know if we should still be holding out any hope for Finn and I suppose the other options are the next generation coming through (Overton, Helm etc.). 

[paul_e]

Wood and Plunkett are obvious options to come in, but there are worries about the fitness of the former.  I don't know if we should still be holding out any hope for Finn and I suppose the other options are the next generation coming through (Overton, Helm etc.). 

If Wood wasn't made of paper (he he) he'd be perfect as the type of bowler I think would do really well for us in Australia.  Most of them are much stronger on the backfoot than the front so a skiddy bowler chucking them down at 90ish where they can't work out whether or not they can stay back.

[OzVilla]

To answer UKRedsox’s being as I fly off tomorrow to be there in Melbourne for the Boxing Day start I would like to see Cook, Ali and Broad dropped, Anderson rested. All replaced by  Ballance, Crane, Ball and Foakes as batsman. Vince and Stoneman to open Foakes at 3. If replacement can be called up like to see Hales and Plunkett come in. Come on England.....FFS!

Feel a bit gutted for you and others who are going over after we have already lost the series, but then they are still test matches at the MCG and SCG which should be great.  Are you doing any of the ODIs!

Don't feel too sorry for him , forecast says 28c and 36c in MEL and SYD today. Have a great time Olaftab and keep the updates coming.

[olaftab]

Tom yes it would have been nicer to turn up at Melbourne with Ashes still in doubt but as Oz said there are collateral benefits. And to be honest it’s a life time wish to be at the MCG at the start of a Boxing Day Test match with 90K crowd.😊
Not doing any one dayers as flying out Day after the Sydney test match to stay in Bali for a week.

[tomd2103]

Tom yes it would have been nicer to turn up at Melbourne with Ashes still in doubt but as Oz said there are collateral benefits. And to be honest it’s a life time wish to be at the MCG at the start of a Boxing Day Test match with 90K crowd.😊
Not doing any one dayers as flying out Day after the Sydney test match to stay in Bali for a week.

Hope you have a great trip and safe travels.  Who knows, maybe your arrival will see a turn in iur fortunes!

[tomd2103]

Wood and Plunkett are obvious options to come in, but there are worries about the fitness of the former.  I don't know if we should still be holding out any hope for Finn and I suppose the other options are the next generation coming through (Overton, Helm etc.). 

If Wood wasn't made of paper (he he) he'd be perfect as the type of bowler I think would do really well for us in Australia.  Most of them are much stronger on the backfoot than the front so a skiddy bowler chucking them down at 90ish where they can't work out whether or not they can stay back.

I agree and I think Wood could have offered something a bit different.  If the ball isn't doing too much, then Woakes, Broad and Anderson become a bit too similar.  Maybe it is time to look at some new blood, but Broad and Anderson are so effective in home conditions, it would be hard to move on from them for a while.

[OzVilla]

Personally I probably wouldn't change the team too much, Cook, Moeen, and Anderson both deserve another crack, either due to previous performances and the fact that I cant see the side improving by replacing them with Jennings, Crane or Ball.

Broad is a bit different as he's been really poor and he really couldn't have many complaints but only if it's for an out and out quick like say Mark Wood.  If Wood isn't ready to go then Broad stays in.

The other thing is if you throw in players not ready then you could risk setting their careers back.  This isn't any old dead rubber where you might experiment with a few things, this is a Boxing Day Ashes Test. 

Melbourne is a drop in pitch so should be decent to bat on and not express in pace. Might suit England a bit more but it's now become a confidence thing. 

[PaulWinch again]

I think the massive qualifier with Wood is whether he is 100% match fit. If he isn't his pace tends to be early to mid eighties and he doesn't really offer anything we don't have.