Aston Villa vs Newcastle Post-Match Thread

[SoccerHQ]

I think we'd be so much better playing 4-3-3.

O.k the downside is Westwood still getting a start but he last played well alongside D*lph and Cleverley so Tish could be the box to box player and the other two hold and give the CBs more protection.

Upfront is Kodja central and Adomah and Ayew either side.

[PaulWinch again]

Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.

[SoccerHQ]

I really think RDM is trying to be far too smart for his own good, particularly at this level where you don't particularly need tactical sophistication.
If he's not careful it will cost him his job.

Kodjia scored 20 goals for Bristol last season centrally, play him there.

Adomah didn't play wing back for Boro ffs, he played as right winger. Ayew is best as an inside forward.

And as previously mentioned Jedinak functioned best at Palace in a 4-3-3.

We've spent enough on these players. We need to be playing them in a formation they're all comfortable with.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

It's all about shape and balance!
We've got some outstanding players at this level but RDM seems to be struggling with how to set them up to maximise effect.
And he needs to think about using the whole squad/bench...be prepared to take tired/underperforming  players off and bring on fresh legs/tactical move to wear down opposition in latter stages of the game...it worked well today but it's what any decent manager should be looking to do all the time anyway, isn't it?




Happy to have taken a point today but would have been bliss to have taken all three!
UTV!
 

[tomd2103]

It would be stupid to only have one formation to start every game. For starters it would make us piss easy to scout for the opposition. And you also have to set up differently sometimes based on the opposition formation and strengths.

Leicester didn't make too many changes last season.  There is obviously going to be a bit of tinkering here and there, but I don't see how you can expect to get any kind of consistency going if you are making changing significant changes to the formation and personnel every game.   

I know it's exaggerating the point but by that logic you'd pick the same 11 and formation if we were playing Wimbledon 1987 as you would against Barcelona 2014.

I don't think a fluke season is worth basing something on. We should have a preferred set up but you also take into account the opposition. Do they have pace, if so where. Do they play 2, 3, 5, in midfield and so on.

Sorry, I'm not quite following the first point.  I was talking about the need for consistency over the period of one season.  Leicester had a settled side last season, played very well and it won them the league.  The season before that, a core group of Chelsea players played in pretty much every league game and they won the league.  Looking back, I can't think of too many successful sides who changed formations and players on a regular basis.   Injuries and loss of form are going to play their part and there are going to be the odd necessary changes here and there, but surely there has to be some kind of consistency?  I mean, how can you expect a defence to gel if you're constantly switching from a back four to a back three every week?   

I agree with the second, but I think it is more pertinent in the top flight when playing better opposition.  In this division though, I haven't yet seen a side that we should be overly concerned about and I would hope we almost have the arrogance to think that it doesn't matter what the opposition do anyway.   

[tomd2103]

Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.

As a defensive player in a three maybe, but he still lacks the mobility and physical presence to be anywhere near good enough for even a decent Championship outfit.  I also don't think you can have him and Jedinak in the same midfield. 

[PeterWithesShin]

In my first post I did say "set up differently sometimes", not every other game.

[paul_e]

If you follow it through though if we settle on 433 which involves Amavi and De Laet or Bacuna bombing on from full back and using their pace to beat people and Grealish and or Tish dricing from midfield and beating players and Ayew, Adomah and Kodjia skinning people around the box and getting shots away what exactly can they do to counter it all?  This is the point, a good side will make small adjustments but generally the shape will be fairly consistent because that way everyone knows their role, knows where their mates are and knows what to expect.  Working on a specific plan for a game or 2 is fine but you need to settle on a way of playing that works with your squad and then iterate from that, not do huge changes  with players in unfamiliar positions, that sort of tinkering creates performances like the first half today.

[Nelly]

I think the change in formation was the crux of our improved performance in the second. Bringing Tshibola in was a big factor too. I think Westwood looked much better after that and played one or two good balls. It is extremely aggravating to watch him pull out of challenges, Risso mentioned the one on the edge of our box as their played steamed in to try and shoot.

Elphick had a really bad day at the office but I absolutely adored Ayew's drive today. He grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck, should have scored that curler too.

I'm another who thinks we should go with three in midfield with players playing where they are better naturally. Our formations are the reasons we've dropped so many points for me.

[tomd2103]

In my first post I did say "set up differently sometimes", not every other game.

Fair enough and I agree that changes are needed at times.  As we stand, I would hope to see some semblance of consistent selection over the coming weeks though.

[paul_e]

Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.

As a defensive player in a three maybe, but he still lacks the mobility and physical presence to be anywhere near good enough for even a decent Championship outfit.  I also don't think you can have him and Jedinak in the same midfield. 

I'd play both, or Gardner in place of one of them.  I'd then work on making the team work as 3 groups of 3 (ignoring the main striker and the keeper).  Right back, right centre back and right centre mid operate as a unit and same on the left.  each side should then work together with and without the ball and always be a group that are supporting each other.  It automatically gives you triangles when you're on the ball but it also helps define responsibilities.  The attacking 3 is slightly different but involves working out who presses the ball who supports the defensive players, etc.  It's just a hunting in packs concept really but if you get it right it's incredibly effective, especially the attacking unit in it.

[tomd2103]

Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.

As a defensive player in a three maybe, but he still lacks the mobility and physical presence to be anywhere near good enough for even a decent Championship outfit.  I also don't think you can have him and Jedinak in the same midfield. 

I'd play both, or Gardner in place of one of them.  I'd then work on making the team work as 3 groups of 3 (ignoring the main striker and the keeper).  Right back, right centre back and right centre mid operate as a unit and same on the left.  each side should then work together with and without the ball and always be a group that are supporting each other.  It automatically gives you triangles when you're on the ball but it also helps define responsibilities.  The attacking 3 is slightly different but involves working out who presses the ball who supports the defensive players, etc.  It's just a hunting in packs concept really but if you get it right it's incredibly effective, especially the attacking unit in it.

The problem I see with playing a midfield three is we haven't got the players to make the right balance in there.  Heard Garry Thompson talking on WM on the way home from the game and he was saying that he thinks we need to quicken the tempo and be a little more direct at times.  Get the ball up to Kodjia or in behind teams and then press them, with Jedinak there to win any balls that come out.  I thought when Tshibola came on today, he won a lot of second balls and challenges which gave us momentum and is something Westwood just doesn't do.  Ideally we would have another player like Tshibola and we could really press teams, with Jedinak providing support behind. 

[Matt Collins]

I agree. Westwood and Jedinak would both want to be the central deep lying guy in a 433. Albeit very different players.

Tshibola looks like he can do one of the 'up and down' roles.

Bacuna definitely can't and I'm sick of seeing him tried there

Gardner? Maybe. But he'd have to improve his passing

The only other contender is grealish. And none of us really know if he can. He'd have to improve his defensive positioning

On the complaints about playing kodjia up front - from what I've seen, he's done a lot of his best work when gestede is in the pitch and / or from wide

[Matt Collins]

The Mail's "findings" from yday

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-analysis-captains-character-11934590

Thanks for the insights guys

[Bottom Right 89]

Sometimes i think its like rock, paper, scissors you set your team up trying to predict what the other team will do and they do the opposite. The first half yesterday was the first time this season a team has come to VP and had a real go at us. RDM changed our formation at half time and got it spot on.

Only one team was going to win that game in the end, we need to take this momentum to Barnsley and start our climb up the table.

Good to see Gollini redeem himself with a couple of crackin saves especially that one on one. Tschibola has to start in the week he's a colossus.Keep Ayew on corners.