Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on September 24, 2016, 07:27:30 PM
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Blimey.
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Well, on that showing we're miles better than "run away with the title" Newcastle.
Even when we were rubbish in the first half, they weren't really any better.
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80 odd minutes one of the worst individual and collective performances you will see.
Expected nothing less than a go the last 10 minutes.
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Call me fickle, I'm not happy. Stealing a point at the end after playing awful for 75 minutes, has to be better.
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I couldn't see much of the game so anyone can give an assessment? Sounds like we were shocking for large parts and Jedinak was awful, but how was the end?
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Woeful for 65 mins and lucky it was only 1-0. Battered them for 30 mins and unlucky to only have 1 point.
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Great rally.
We've got issues though. And not of Used Car Magazine.
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That last 25 or mins has left me more positive than I've been for a while. Put the other team under sustained pressure when we needed the goal, scored from a set piece of things, and perhaps most importantly finished the match very much on the front foot and not hanging on.
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I couldn't see much of the game so anyone can give an assessment? Sounds like we were shocking for large parts and Jedinak was awful, but how was the end?
Yep that.
Last 10 minutes we had about 90 corners, Ayew beat almost every Newcastle player in that time a dozem times. Kodjia looks dangerous but Jedinak, Elphick and Amavi were awful ... throw in Bacuna too.
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Who took the corner? Looked okay for a change.
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Woeful for 65 mins and lucky it was only 1-0. Battered them for 30 mins and unlucky to only have 1 point.
I really don't understand why we can lurch from one to the other so much.
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Hopefully that last 30 mins is the catalyst to start winning games.
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At the end we looked more like the Aston Villa which started the season. Ayew is so good, why doesn't he play like that for the full game?
I'm not having a go at Ayew, by the way. But he's head and shoulders our best player. He could have won us that game single handed for all the help the rest of them were. Tish made a huge difference too though.
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All down to confidence and belief for me. We could do with a few wins and a bit more luck-although today was not about luck. Very much still a work in progress.
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Westwood off and we are better
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Fair result, but: the system was predictably wrong first half, we haven't won enough games to be overly pleased with yet another draw, and if they can play *that well*, then what causes them to play so badly the rest of the time?
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I turned it off just after the Jedinak disallowed goal.
It sounds like I've inadvertently caused a bucking up of ideas.
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So glad, and a little stunned, that we got something from that game. A bizarre game that should have seen Newcastle home and dry. The unremitting shit we saw in the first 75 minutes needs to be sorted out, and fast.
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Slowly changed when Tsibola came on. We can't go into a games with a 2 man centre mid of Westwood/ Jedinak again. Wrap Tsibola in cotton wool.
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But jeez how poor was Jedinak - worrying
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Turning point? Well it has to be, for everyone involved. The manager was terrible again, selection and formation pulled out of his arsehole, we can't keep chopping, groping around in the dark for something.
The midfield, abysmal. It's not working in there, we need more men, we simply don't look any good without a 3 with 2 players holding each others hands to get them through it. January we need a box to box fucker with a bit of drive and pace who can beat a man and pass the ball relatively well.
Elphick looks a chance waiting to happen, very very poor.
Ayew, first half terrible, second half when he gets involved he is very good, with a grip on games he'd look great.
Very very happy to pull it around and get an undeserved point. Our last 3 games have got progessively worse though as the tinkering gets progressively more and more. We need to settle down, pick players in their normal positions, bolster the midfield with an extra man, not try and force players in to the team just because we've bought them.
Di Matteo looks poor to me though, I cannot see him lasting.
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Lucky. Dreadful performance. Newcastle should have been out of sight.
Ah well.
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I'd be tempted by a front three of Ayew, Kodija and RHM. Lets ramp up the pace.
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One win in 9 games, close on relegation form.
Not convinced RDM knows what he is doing.
Not God enough.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
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Well, on that showing we're miles better than "run away with the title" Newcastle.
Even when we were rubbish in the first half, they weren't really any better.
Eh? They were by far the better team first half.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
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1st game I have seen this season.
After 65 mins, Taxi for Roberto.
Change some players,
different formation and we battered them.
Have to say, both centers seemed clueless at times. Elphick in particular seemed a liability.
Good point should have some momentum.
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Turning point? Well it has to be, for everyone involved. The manager was terrible again, selection and formation pulled out of his arsehole, we can't keep chopping, groping around in the dark for something.
The midfield, abysmal. It's not working in there, we need more men, we simply don't look any good without a 3 with 2 players holding each others hands to get them through it. January we need a box to box fucker with a bit of drive and pace who can beat a man and pass the ball relatively well.
Elphick looks a chance waiting to happen, very very poor.
Ayew, first half terrible, second half when he gets involved he is very good, with a grip on games he'd look great.
Very very happy to pull it around and get an undeserved point. Our last 3 games have got progessively worse though as the tinkering gets progressively more and more. We need to settle down, pick players in their normal positions, bolster the midfield with an extra man, not try and force players in to the team just because we've bought them.
The
Di Matteo looks poor to me though, I cannot see him lasting.
Good summary. Di Matteo to blame for today I think
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I'd have taken a point before the game but for the first 70-75 minutes we were dire, poor from Bacuna, Jedinak and Tommy Elprick but a great fightback at the end and could have nicked it.
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I turned it off just after the Jedinak disallowed goal.
It sounds like I've inadvertently caused a bucking up of ideas.
Rather than killing us, that lifted us for a change.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I'll bet he was glad to go off once a proper midfielder materialised alongside him. He's a passenger, and one who's vomited on the back seat as well.
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I'm really hoping that last 30 minutes, by the sound of it, can be the turning point for us.
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Would've love us to win that at the end. I think we don't just need to win a game...but to win it in dramatic style like today would've been or indeed Forest.
That said we were lucky not to be 3 down so on balance you take the point.
Still so many round pegs in square holes, still a very poor position in the table.
Gestede is a conundrum to me....he comes on particularly at home and he turns the game in our favour...yet when he starts he's very very average. Still him and Kodjia should be a good combination.
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All I'm going to say is:
1) Too negative a starting formation to play in this division. We are AVFC and shouldn't be playing defensive shite formations in this division.
2) Elphick looked fooking awful. Just kick the ball you twonk, you're not good enough to try and play. Apart from seeing him stand up in the first game with a bandage I cannot say I've been overly impressed.
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Feels like a win
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Well, on that showing we're miles better than "run away with the title" Newcastle.
Even when we were rubbish in the first half, they weren't really any better.
Eh? They were by far the better team first half.
And were still pretty terrible.
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This is a resilient Aston Villa side - we're not winning games but we're not losing them either when last 3-4 years we would have lost that. Only one team was going to win that at the end though. First half was terrible, last 30 mins of Villa pressure excellent. Kodjia extremely exciting and determined on the ball and once again we hit the frigging woodwork. I never expected us to go straight back up but I do think we're not far from gelling. And the other major plus point tonight - we didn't lose to The Loudmouth Geordies.
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Kodja and Ayew lots of promise and potential there
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I'm not sure where this Adomah fellow is going to fit in. Kodj is the main man, McCormack offers great movement and link up between the midfield and attack, Ayew is the jack in the box who looks the most dangerous. Then we've got Grealish who has probably been our best midfielder/attacking midfielder. That's 4 players, not including Adomah. With the fact we can't get away with just 2 in the centre mid because we look so weak that leaves us with picking 3 from those 5. I can't for the life of me see where Adomah fits in apart from impact sub when needed along with Gestede.
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Newcastle have already gone and won at Bristol and Derby, we haven't.
They could easily have been 3 up tonight.
I'd be amazed if we finish above them this season, we need to improve and quick.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I'll bet he was glad to go off once a proper midfielder materialised alongside him. He's a passenger, and one who's vomited on the back seat as well.
Westwood was far from being the worst Villa player today,
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Gestede is a conundrum to me....he comes on particularly at home and he turns the game in our favour...yet when he starts he's very very average. Still him and Kodjia should be a good combination.
I feel we can't fall in to the trap of picking Gestede, when he starts he looks poor and affects the whole way we play. When he comes on, he helps cause mayhem, he can do a job as impact sub for me but very rarely a starter.
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Newcastle have already gone and won at Bristol and Derby, we haven't.
They could easily have been 3 up tonight.
Or they could have lost 3-1 based on the last half hour. In the end, both teams got the point that either, or neither deserved.
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Shocking line up to start with from RDM, he really has gone to the Sherwood School of Football Tactics.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I'll bet he was glad to go off once a proper midfielder materialised alongside him. He's a passenger, and one who's vomited on the back seat as well.
Westwood was far from being the worst Villa player today,
Amavi was head and shoulders the worst. He'll get up to speed.
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Astonished at how bad the first was, I couldn't watch anymore and drove home from work where we have Sky. After that the result feels almost like a win. We must settle on a side and stop fucking about. No 3 at the back and utilise what forward strength we have.
We're still in touch, but only just.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I'll bet he was glad to go off once a proper midfielder materialised alongside him. He's a passenger, and one who's vomited on the back seat as well.
Westwood was far from being the worst Villa player today,
Amavi was head and shoulders the worst. He'll get up to speed.
Amavi, I mean. Westwood is white.
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Not happy with a point sure would be nice to win some of these games for a change BUT I have a hard time being down on RDM or the players for the rally. Honestly I couldnt fault that.
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I'm not sure where this Adomah fellow is going to fit in. Kodj is the main man, McCormack offers great movement and link up between the midfield and attack, Ayew is the jack in the box who looks the most dangerous. Then we've got Grealish who has probably been our best midfielder/attacking midfielder. That's 4 players, not including Adomah. With the fact we can't get away with just 2 in the centre mid because we look so weak that leaves us with picking 3 from those 5. I can't for the life of me see where Adomah fits in apart from impact sub when needed along with Gestede.
Simple
Kodjia
Ayew. Ross. Adomah
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Tshibola looks a good buy but in Elphick, Chester and Jedinak we have massively overpaid for has beens. Jedinak and Elphick especially were shocking.
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Tshibola looks a good buy but in Elphick, Chester and Jedinak we have massively overpaid for has beens. Jedinak and Elphick especially were shocking.
I think Chester has been good on the whole.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I'll bet he was glad to go off once a proper midfielder materialised alongside him. He's a passenger, and one who's vomited on the back seat as well.
Westwood was far from being the worst Villa player today,
Amavi was head and shoulders the worst. He'll get up to speed.
Westwood wasn't the worst, but he is consistently ineffective, as much use as a vapour in midfield.
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One positive from the past couple of weeks is we seem to be developing some resilience. When things go against us we're not just wilting we're trying to fight.
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Tshibola looks a good buy but in Elphick, Chester and Jedinak we have massively overpaid for has beens. Jedinak and Elphick especially were shocking.
I think Chester has been good on the whole.
Agree - Jedinak needs two alongside him and he's good. As a two we get caught out too much
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Are we still in 19th?
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We had them on the rack there at the end, so-called best team in the league. Yes, we were shite for an hour but a year ago we'd have collapsed under the same pressure.
Onion Head needs to sort out his formation sharpish, otherwise the players aren't going to have a clue. I hate the whole "sack da manija" culture of modern football but he's beginning to get on my wick slightly.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I'll bet he was glad to go off once a proper midfielder materialised alongside him. He's a passenger, and one who's vomited on the back seat as well.
Westwood was far from being the worst Villa player today,
Amavi was head and shoulders the worst. He'll get up to speed.
Westwood wasn't the worst, but he is consistently ineffective, as much use as a vapour in midfield.
Thought Amavi was better when at LB than LWB. Westwood was awful, again. We really needed another central midfielder in the summer.
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Well, on that showing we're miles better than "run away with the title" Newcastle.
Even when we were rubbish in the first half, they weren't really any better.
Ah here, they played us off the park for most of it. By the time we got going they should have been out of sight, Diame missed a real sitter.
Ayew got us back into the game single handedly but we were dreadful before then. Tactically RDM hasn't a clue unfortunately and that is our biggest problem.
Gollini was sharp and made a great save. Tshibola's took a while to get into the game but his athleticism stood out. Not sure what other positives we can take from it bar the late siege and goal. We look miles off challenging for promotion which is unacceptable.
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Three wins in 46 games.
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I wonder if Fatso will sulk about how we celebrated that point as well.
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Three wins in 46 games.
I understand the point, but I always think that's a bit of a irrelevant stat. Tracking backing over last season doesn't really matter. If we won 10 on the bounce now it would still only be 13 wins from 56 and that'd still look rubbish.
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Three wins in 46 games.
I understand the point, but I always think that's a bit of a irrelevant stat. Tracking backing over last season doesn't really matter. If we won 10 on the bounce now it would still only be 13 wins from 56 and that'd still look rubbish.
How does 1 win in 9 for this campaign look? :-\
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The thing about Westwood is that whilst he is frequently "not the worst" he is so peripheral to the game he might as well not be on the pitch.
We have a massive problem in midfield, we just look so light there, and Westwood and his inability to spot runners or to provide some sort of defensive quality is a huge part of that problem.
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Three wins in 46 games.
I understand the point, but I always think that's a bit of a irrelevant stat. Tracking backing over last season doesn't really matter. If we won 10 on the bounce now it would still only be 13 wins from 56 and that'd still look rubbish.
How does 1 win in 9 for this campaign look? :-\
2 defeats in 9 after last seasons fucking debacle.
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Or how does 2 defeats in 9 this season look?
We all know we haven't been good enough so far but I really don't get why folks don't try and get some enjoyment from us getting a late goal that means something for once rather than still looking to be as negative as possible.
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We're unbeaten since the international break I suppose?
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I'd have taken a point before the game but for the first 70-75 minutes we were dire, poor from Bacuna, Jedinak and Tommy Elprick but a great fightback at the end and could have nicked it.
Lucky. Dreadful performance. Newcastle should have been out of sight.
Ah well.
Lucky. Dreadful performance. Newcastle should have been out of sight.
Ah well.
Lucky. Dreadful performance. Newcastle should have been out of sight.
Ah well.
Not entirely bad. Last 20 minutes were excellent. Could have easily won it at the end. Ayew and Kodjia look skilful and dangerous.
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The thing about Westwood is that whilst he is frequently "not the worst" he is so peripheral to the game he might as well not be on the pitch.
We have a massive problem in midfield, we just look so light there, and Westwood and his inability to spot runners or to provide some sort of defensive quality is a huge part of that problem.
Crux of the matter. I don't wish injury on anyone but why the hell is it our better players that get crocked?
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Awful first 75 mins, should've been 0-5 by then!
However, a point earned at the end, change of luck also, will take it as long as we beat Barnsley!
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Or how does 2 defeats in 9 this season look?
We all know we haven't been good enough so far but I really don't get why folks don't try and get some enjoyment from us getting a late goal that means something for once rather than still looking to be as negative as possible.
Indeed. If the players and management can use the last 25 minutes drive and belief to good effect, that'll be something to counteract the previous 70 and the Ipswich game.
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Newcastle did what we've been doing, dominating, wasting chances and then yielding the initiative to the opposition with 20-25 minutes to go. Kind of the opposite of the Huddersfield game. Positive to get a draw but worrying signs are continued poor defending, gifting goals, frequently non existent midfield and not having much luck in front of goal - how many times have we hit the woodwork this season? But more than that RDM doesn't look to have the tactical nous or common sense we need. I still think we will click if we stop dicking about with 3-5-2 and we can keep Badoom Tish fit.
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Westwood and Tish looked quite good I thought, Westwood was getting himself and the ball forward a lot quicker second half, and Jedi improved once we had some confidence and I think those as a 3 will be decent. The problem is that it relies too much on Tish and there is very little in the way of backup to cover injuries/loss of form etc.
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Think including Chester in the criticism is harsh, did nothing in particular wrong in the first half other than looking like he wasn't really sure where he was meant to be playing and had a pretty good 2nd half for me.
The main issue was that our shape was terrible, Adomah and Amavi did'n tseem to know how high to push so both were kind of in no man's land between defence and midfield, Chester and Baker were too wide so we looked spread thin. In midfield we had the same issue, we had 3 in there but they were always too far apart so whenever the ball bounced out of a tackle Newcastle were there first. Ayew again didn't seem to know where he was meant to be playing, looked like it was covering the left when we didn't have the ball but playing 10 when we got it but the running between the 2 meant he was always out of position.
The change at half time helped, Ayew, Amavi and Adomah all looked much more at ease with their positioning but it meant Kodjia was more isolated and it took us a while to work out who was supporting him and start seeing breaks from midfield. Once it started to click we took control and the last half hour was as good as anything we've put together all season and despite the silly comment from aj earlier on this thread we were definitely deserving of a point and in the end can probably feel a little upset that we didn't push on for all 3.
Now back to the main theme I followed in the match thread, the ref was utter shit. Shelvey got a yellow that could easily have been red and then went through the back of Ayew near the end and stayed on the pitch, poor decision. He booked Tish for being out-muscled having given Gayle 3-4 free kicks for similar, poor decision. He spent 10-15 minutes early in the 2nd half giving then free kicks every time they asked and peaked on that one by giving them a free kick for the clash of heads between Yedlin and Ayew which was a truly disgraceful decision. Some teams seem to have the ref favour them when they're at home and they get the slight benefit of the 50/50s which can make a bit of a difference, for some reason they generally go the other way with us and I honestly can't recall the last time we scored an offside goal and the flag doesn't go up, or we got a cheap penalty, or we got 3-4 soft free kicks to slow the game just when we needed a breather. On the flip side if ever a ref feels like giving out a card or 2 for nonsense reasons we always seem to be top of their list.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I wouldn't bother. The narrative is set. Not that I'm a Westwood lover, but Jedinak was way worse than him today
The first hour was so bad it's a massive concern. All the points have been covered
Tshibola was by far the best midfielder and the 433 many of us have wanted to see tried looked loads better
Ayew and kodjia coming off the lines looked really good. I'd play that way again against Barnsley. Baker for elphick if fit
Jedinak's passing made me long for gardner. It was god awful
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just back in. Shapeless bewildering shite for 60 minutes then as soon as we show some attacking intent we look the better side. Robbie's drinking in the saloon of last chances I think. Tactically appalling - loose Tuesday and Tone's going to be firing from the hip.
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Or how does 2 defeats in 9 this season look?
We all know we haven't been good enough so far but I really don't get why folks don't try and get some enjoyment from us getting a late goal that means something for once rather than still looking to be as negative as possible.
Indeed. If the players and management can use the last 25 minutes drive and belief to good effect, that'll be something to counteract the previous 70 and the Ipswich game.
Well let's hope that does indeed happen - so we can finally look forward to turning one point into three more regularly.
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Are we still in 19th?
17th, 11 points off top.
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How have we had Ayew for over a year and he hasn't been on set pieces until today?
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I wouldn't bother. The narrative is set. Not that I'm a Westwood lover, but Jedinak was way worse than him today
The first hour was so bad it's a massive concern. All the points have been covered
Tshibola was by far the best midfielder and the 433 many of us have wanted to see tried looked loads better
Ayew and kodjia coming off the lines looked really good. I'd play that way again against Barnsley. Baker for elphick if fit
Jedinak's passing made me long for gardner. It was god awful
Craig Gardner?
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As bad as can be in the first half. Some hope from the second half and nice to score the late goal for a change. However if we want to be serious about promotion a draw at home against Newcastle is a bad result.
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Tshibola looks a good buy but in Elphick, Chester and Jedinak we have massively overpaid for has beens. Jedinak and Elphick especially were shocking.
I think Chester has been good on the whole.
Chester has been very good.He was today.
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The thing about Westwood is that whilst he is frequently "not the worst" he is so peripheral to the game he might as well not be on the pitch.
We have a massive problem in midfield, we just look so light there, and Westwood and his inability to spot runners or to provide some sort of defensive quality is a huge part of that problem.
Crux of the matter. I don't wish injury on anyone but why the hell is it our better players that get crocked?
Probably because they actually make contact with the opposition. Westwood is like a gas floating around the middle, occasionally the wind changes and you see him.
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A home draw against Newcastle isn't a bad result
It was a bloody awful performance for an hour
I don't want to see that 352 again for a while. It was never the right way to play today
Needs give 433 / 4312 a go for a bit I feel. Even if it means leaving a lot of firepower on the bench
Wouldn't say Tish was amazing but he gave us what we needed.
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Westwood off and we are better
I noticed that. Tshibola showed him up good and proper.
Westwood went off with 10 mins to go including added time, we were on top the last 30 mins.
I wouldn't bother. The narrative is set. Not that I'm a Westwood lover, but Jedinak was way worse than him today
The first hour was so bad it's a massive concern. All the points have been covered
Tshibola was by far the best midfielder and the 433 many of us have wanted to see tried looked loads better
Ayew and kodjia coming off the lines looked really good. I'd play that way again against Barnsley. Baker for elphick if fit
Jedinak's passing made me long for gardner. It was god awful
The difference being Jedinak has played about three games for us, whereas I've been watching the ghost-like Westwood haunting our midfield for four fucking years, and - surprise, surprise - we've been absolutely shit for all of those four years.
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Tshibola looks a good buy but in Elphick, Chester and Jedinak we have massively overpaid for has beens. Jedinak and Elphick especially were shocking.
I think Chester has been good on the whole.
Chester has been very good.He was today.
You tend to hardly notice Chester, which is generally a good sign for a defender.
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A home draw against Newcastle isn't a bad result
It was a bloody awful performance for an hour
I don't want to see that 352 again for a while. It was never the right way to play today
Needs give 433 / 4312 a go for a bit I feel. Even if it means leaving a lot of firepower on the bench
Wouldn't say Tish was amazing but he gave us what we needed.
Agreed. That random first half formation left players wondering where they should be playing.
Ayew was great for the last half hour but in the first half was anonymous. Kodjia looks the part too.
If only we could sort central midfield...and the unceasing mistakes at the back.
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Play 3 in midfield with Ayew and Grealish either side of Kodja - McCormack Adomah and Gestede to provide bench firepower.
Have a feeling Baker and Chester will be our best centre half combo.
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Gollini is increasingly looking very good.
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Felt more positive coming away from Villa Park today. Desperately poor first half, but better when Tshibola came on and we went to three in midfield. Didn't think much of Newcastle to be honest and apart from one crucial save in the first half, Gollini didn't have much to do. As for the rest:
Bacuna - did OK at RB, was horrible in midfield
Amavi - some good moments going forward but looks very suspect defensively
Chester - solid game
Elphick - had a nightmare
Baker - typical Baker performance and taken off at half-time
Jedinak - see Elphick
Westwood - why oh why?
Adomah - started at wing-back for some reason and then taken off before he got a chance to get going on the wing
Ayew - mixed bag but had some moments of quality
Kodjia - lively but does a lot of his outside the box
Tshibola - changed the game and was a real presence in midfield
Gestede - put himself about but nothing of real note
Hepburn-Murphy - looked lively
We looked much better when Tshibola came on and we went to three in midfield, even though Westwood looked completely lost. I thought having genuine width in the second half also helped as it stretched them a bit. Di matteo has got to find a system and way of playing that works though as he seems like he's stumbling around in the dark at the moment.
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Just got in and haven't read the whole thread so I don't know the mood.
Firstly, RDM needs questioning for setting us up like that, with essentially 7 defensive players.
At home.
That was disgraceful and left our strikers so isolated it was unreal, especially when Jedinak was giving the impression of having the mobility of an oil tanker.
A central midfielder who struggled to get his fat arse in their half for virtually all of the first half.??
Toon really should have been out of sight, but as we know, if you don't take you chances you don't win games.
Last 20 minutes were far better.
Tish made a difference and the stimulus seemed to come just before the disallowed goal when Ayew angrily gestured to the players scratching their balls on the half way line to wake the fuck up and get in the box.
That finally seemed to galvanise the team.
If we take the game to teams and actually believe we can blow them away, then I think we could.
If we keep playing the game at a snails pace, like the first 70 mins today, we may as well give up.
Finally, aword about Kodjia.....brilliant.
What a skillfull, hardworking, inspiring player.
He honestly reminds me of Collymore, in his pomp.
He could be very, very special, as long as RDM stifle him.
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The thing about Westwood is that whilst he is frequently "not the worst" he is so peripheral to the game he might as well not be on the pitch.
We have a massive problem in midfield, we just look so light there, and Westwood and his inability to spot runners or to provide some sort of defensive quality is a huge part of that problem.
Crux of the matter. I don't wish injury on anyone but why the hell is it our better players that get crocked?
Probably because they actually make contact with the opposition. Westwood is like a gas floating around the middle, occasionally the wind changes and you see him.
Except Westwood made the most tackles and interceptions of our midfielders today, but don't let facts get in the way.
The problem today wasn't due to individual performances and trying to find a way to make it the fault of westwood or bacuna is tiresome, we were shit because our shape didn't suit our players and did nothing to counter the main threats Newcastle offered. Yes Jedinak looked a bit off the pace and Elphick made a couple of poor mistakes but those are symptoms of the bigger problem which is that for the last 2 games rdm has abandoned the shape that he bought players to fill and we've seen 2 abject performances because of it. the 4231 we were playing didn't get the results we hoped for but the signs were there that we could be a very good side, Ipswich and today is 2 games where we've had the same defensive lapses but have also lost all our attacking threat and that's not a worthwhile trade off. $231 or 433 from here on and we'll be ok.
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Our biggest problem all season has been trying to shoe horn all the attacking players we have into the team. This of course, has resulted in a lack of shape and when under pressure, a lack of defensive cover leading to late goals. Grealish did us a favour in some ways as it meant we had the opportunity to find a formation that might work. The back 5 crap should be binned. I think the three that finished in midfield has to be the way to go then it's Ayew, Koj and then it's upto the others to battle it out for the remaining spot.
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Our biggest problem all season has been trying to shoe horn all the attacking players we have into the team. This of course, has resulted in a lack of shape and when under pressure, a lack of defensive cover leading to late goals. Grealish did us a favour in some ways as it meant we had the opportunity to find a formation that might work. The back 5 crap should be binned. I think the three that finished in midfield has to be the way to go then it's Ayew, Koj and then it's upto the others to battle it out for the remaining spot.
I'm in this camp. Maybe grealish can play in the midfield three instead of Westwood.
Gestede is a donkey but kodjia has always looked best when he's on the pitch.
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Play 3 in midfield with Ayew and Grealish either side of Kodja - McCormack Adomah and Gestede to provide bench firepower.
Have a feeling Baker and Chester will be our best centre half combo.
I can't see Rdm dropping Westwood which means the midfield has to be constructed around him.
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What was the crowd?
Did Laleek Baker last more than 30 minutes?
How were the toon cadets?
Will we win the next two games? We have to if we have aspirations of promotion this season.
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First half I thought we played deep and let them have too much time on the ball. We also kept giving away possession cheaply.
Golini had a good game, the defence overall looked OK, Elphick had a bit of a mare, it happens.
We got away with it due to their poor finishing.
Up front we looked lively, and again were denied by the post. Ayew, Adomah and Kodjia played well, so did Gestede and RHM.
It's the midfield that doesn't do enough. We didn't win the ball enough, and gave it away too cheaply.
Tshibola had a positive effect on the game. Jedinak had a poor game, but still had some influence on the game, and was unlucky with the offside call. Westwood does not change the game at all.
Need to play with the high intensity of the last 20 minutes.
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One day I would love to see a video of westwood in training. It must be genuinely world class.
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Play 3 in midfield with Ayew and Grealish either side of Kodja - McCormack Adomah and Gestede to provide bench firepower.
Have a feeling Baker and Chester will be our best centre half combo.
I can't see Rdm dropping Westwood which means the midfield has to be constructed around him.
Which puts pressure on the other midfielders because they have to fill the gaps left by Westwood, the big stick of nothingness.
I'm not blaming him for our shitness today, but his net contribution over the last four years has been utterly pathetic. Once he is adequately replaced we will see what a difference having a midfielder who actually contributes can make. A tackle or interception here and there isn't enough. See Aaron Tshibola.
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Shocking line up to start with from RDM, he really has gone to the Sherwood School of Football Tactics.
this
adomah at wing back what the fuck was that about?
the twats should have been out of site at half time but at least we showed some balls in the last twenty mins
central midfield is a big worry
and jedinak and elphick fuck me what a pair of donkeys
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Watched it in a pub in ashington.
Bastards embarrassed me yet one more time. When's it gonna stop? Heroic draws at home, losses away, that's relegation form.
I wouldn't be unhappy for the owner to pull the trigger tonight. Apart from the last quarter it was clueless, gutless, artless and insipid.
50 million quid? How many bugatti veyrons can you buy for that? We are a funky moped..
And elphick? I thought he was a dead alcoholic actor from Warwickshire? Or was that Michael elphick? Maybe paddy O'Reilly had him dug up, and stuck a shirt on the cadaver?
How much patience should we have?
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Play 3 in midfield with Ayew and Grealish either side of Kodja - McCormack Adomah and Gestede to provide bench firepower.
Have a feeling Baker and Chester will be our best centre half combo.
I can't see Rdm dropping Westwood which means the midfield has to be constructed around him.
Which puts pressure on the other midfielders because they have to fill the gaps left by Westwood, the big stick of nothingness.
I'm not blaming him for our shitness today, but his net contribution over the last four years has been utterly pathetic. Once he is adequately replaced we will see what a difference having a midfielder who actually contributes can make. A tackle or interception here and there isn't enough. See Aaron Tshibola.
There was one bit of play on about 40 minutes or so, when a Newcastle player was attacking our penalty area, and Westwood avoided tackling him like a Blues fan avoiding a shower. Absolutely shithousery of the highest order.
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Shocking first half. Poor tactics, poor shape, no intensity, faffing about in dangerous areas. Newcastle could easily have been out of sight but for good goalkeeping by Gollini when we'd presented them with a one-on-one, and miss of the season in the second half. Changing the shape and bringing Tshibola and Gestede on made us an entirely different proposition in the second half so fair play to RdM for recognising his mistake and rectifying it. We've got several players who can take players on - Tshibola, Kodjia, Ayew, Adomah - and then players who have difficulty doing the basics - Jedinak in particular had a mare. If only we'd started the game the way we played in the last 20 minutes we'd have got a better result than we did, but in the end we deserved a point.
Couple of things - haven't seen any replays but 1) was the disallowed goal off-side, and 2) should we have had a penalty or was it a dive?
And at last they've opened Park Circus access to the Expressway/M6 so getting back after the game was back to normal
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Our biggest problem all season has been trying to shoe horn all the attacking players we have into the team. This of course, has resulted in a lack of shape and when under pressure, a lack of defensive cover leading to late goals. Grealish did us a favour in some ways as it meant we had the opportunity to find a formation that might work. The back 5 crap should be binned. I think the three that finished in midfield has to be the way to go then it's Ayew, Koj and then it's upto the others to battle it out for the remaining spot.
I'm in this camp. Maybe grealish can play in the midfield three instead of Westwood.
Gestede is a donkey but kodjia has always looked best when he's on the pitch.
I agree and that is probably because Kodjia does a lot of work in the channels and outside the box. If he's playing up front on his own, that often means there no one in the box to get on the end of something. For all his faults, Gestede does seem to make a real impact when he comes in the later stages of games.
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It was offside. It wasn't a pen or a dive in my opinion, their player was just stronger in the challenge.
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Shit for 65 minutes but we finally showed a bit of character with the comeback and in the end we could have won. Hope he's now stumbled across his best side.
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Shocking first half. Poor tactics, poor shape, no intensity, faffing about in dangerous areas. Newcastle could easily have been out of sight but for good goalkeeping by Gollini when we'd presented them with a one-on-one, and miss of the season in the second half. Changing the shape and bringing Tshibola and Gestede on made us an entirely different proposition in the second half so fair play to RdM for recognising his mistake and rectifying it. We've got several players who can take players on - Tshibola, Kodjia, Ayew, Adomah - and then players who have difficulty doing the basics - Jedinak in particular had a mare. If only we'd started the game the way we played in the last 20 minutes we'd have got a better result than we did, but in the end we deserved a point.
Couple of things - haven't seen any replays but 1) was the disallowed goal off-side, and 2) should we have had a penalty or was it a dive?
And at last they've opened Park Circus access to the Expressway/M6 so getting back after the game was back to normal
1. About half a yard off so can't have many complaints.
2. Probably not a pen but not a dive either. It's the sort of thing that you see given for clubs who have everything going their way but clubs who are struggling never get.
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Looked like a pen to me on the highlights. Goes past the defender and he sticks his body in the way taking Tish down
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Shit for 65 minutes but we finally showed a bit of character with the comeback and in the end we could have won. Hope he's now stumbled across his best side.
Not sure how it cam across on TV, but the atmosphere in the ground really cranked up for the last 20 minutes or so as well.
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I really like that Holte End cam they do. Watched the reaction from the crowd and some of the stewards and it wipes out the dross of the first 75 minutes...for a while.
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Kind of reminded me of the home game against them the first season under Lambert. The second half then seemed to turn our season around, hopefully this will have the same effect.
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Great to see Rushian make a cameo, after his fine performance for the reserves the other night. I thought Di Matteo wouldn't be brave enough to put him on but he looked good and despite losing the ball a couple of times, he had the pace to fight for it back.
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Shit for 65 minutes but we finally showed a bit of character with the comeback and in the end we could have won. Hope he's now stumbled across his best side.
Pleased with this - it is another draw but the resilience we were hoping for is beginning to show.
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Shit for 65 minutes but we finally showed a bit of character with the comeback and in the end we could have won. Hope he's now stumbled across his best side.
Not sure how it cam across on TV, but the atmosphere in the ground really cranked up for the last 20 minutes or so as well.
It certainly did and I thought the catalyst for that was Ayew, who decided to turn up and grab the game by the throat. It was terrible before that but then do was the play.
I did think Amavi did well going forward at times, even when we were poor
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A good point won, early days in a very long season. I'm looking forward to the two away trips this week and must say I'm really enjoying this league. It's much more fun going into every game not knowing the result.
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Play 3 in midfield with Ayew and Grealish either side of Kodja - McCormack Adomah and Gestede to provide bench firepower.
Have a feeling Baker and Chester will be our best centre half combo.
I can't see Rdm dropping Westwood which means the midfield has to be constructed around him.
The alternatives in midfield are not great...
It's really worrying that we haven't improved one iota. Can't believe RDM went with 3 at the back again after the pathetic effort at Ipswich. The man really hasn't a clue.
Can only imagine how he will try and shoehorn McCormack and Grealish back into the side v Barnsley. I'd give Amavi another chance but not sure he deserves it and I don't rate Cissokho at all. Elphick is struggling but think he will be fine with 4 at the back. Ayew hasn't scored in 10 league games which is a worrying run.
--------------Gollini
Bacuna, Elphick, Chester, Amavi
Westwood, Jedinak, Tshibola
Ayew, Kodija, Party boy
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Shit for 65 minutes but we finally showed a bit of character with the comeback and in the end we could have won. Hope he's now stumbled across his best side.
His best side might differ from game to game.
Three at the back was OK away against Ipswich, but wasn't OK at home today.
The eleven that finished the game today might not be the best eleven to start against Barnsley. We need to be flexible enough to mix it up and make changes when plan a isn't working.
Thankfully he made alterations today and got us back into the game.
The Rushian is raw, but a tiring Newcastle backline absolutely shit themselves when he was going one side and Ayew was opening them up on the other.
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Slowly changed when Tsibola came on. We can't go into a games with a mid 2 0f Westwood/ Jedinak again. Wrap Tsibola in cotton wool.
Fixed.
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I really like the air of arrogance RHM seems to have, watching him warm up in front of us it didn't seem like anything fazed him.
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Play 3 in midfield with Ayew and Grealish either side of Kodja - McCormack Adomah and Gestede to provide bench firepower.
Have a feeling Baker and Chester will be our best centre half combo.
I can't see Rdm dropping Westwood which means the midfield has to be constructed around him.
The alternatives in midfield are not great...
It's really worrying that we haven't improved one iota. Can't believe RDM went with 3 at the back again after the pathetic effort at Ipswich. The man really hasn't a clue.
Can only imagine how he will try and shoehorn McCormack and Grealish back into the side v Barnsley. I'd give Amavi another chance but not sure he deserves it and I don't rate Cissokho at all. Elphick is struggling but think he will be fine with 4 at the back. Ayew hasn't scored in 10 league games which is a worrying run.
--------------Gollini
Bacuna, Elphick, Chester, Amavi
Westwood, Jedinak, Tshibola
Ayew, Kodija, Party boy
Swap Adomah for Grealish and I would probably go with that as well. I worry about Amavi's defending, as watching the goals on Channel5 earlier, he got caught out again for their goal, so would maybe replace him with Cissokho.
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I'm not sure where this Adomah fellow is going to fit in. Kodj is the main man, McCormack offers great movement and link up between the midfield and attack, Ayew is the jack in the box who looks the most dangerous. Then we've got Grealish who has probably been our best midfielder/attacking midfielder. That's 4 players, not including Adomah. With the fact we can't get away with just 2 in the centre mid because we look so weak that leaves us with picking 3 from those 5. I can't for the life of me see where Adomah fits in apart from impact sub when needed along with Gestede.
Simple
Kodjia
Ayew. Ross. Adomah
Leaves us with 2 in the middle which we can't afford because of the lack of mobility.
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Shit for 65 minutes but we finally showed a bit of character with the comeback and in the end we could have won. Hope he's now stumbled across his best side.
His best side might differ from game to game.
Three at the back was OK away against Ipswich, but wasn't OK at home today.
The eleven that finished the game today might not be the best eleven to start against Barnsley. We need to be flexible enough to mix it up and make changes when plan a isn't working.
Thankfully he made alterations today and got us back into the game.
The Rushian is raw, but a tiring Newcastle backline absolutely shit themselves when he was going one side and Ayew was opening them up on the other.
Disagree with this. He needs to find a starting XI that can win games in this division and then have options on the bench if he needs to change it during the game. We desperately need some stability and consistency.
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It would be stupid to only have one formation to start every game. For starters it would make us piss easy to scout for the opposition. And you also have to set up differently sometimes based on the opposition formation and strengths.
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RHM is a star in the making. He is a cracking player.
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Well that was a relief. After 3 losing draws finally a winning draw. Things can only get better :-[
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RHM is a star in the making. He is a cracking player.
Yes a breath of fresh air and if only the lad had not made bad decisions on final ball a couple of times we could have ended up winning this.
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RHM was a threat I agree. His decisions were very poor though
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... I worry about Amavi's defending, as watching the goals on Channel5 earlier, he got caught out again for their goal, so would maybe replace him with Cissokho.
You might well woorry about Amavi's defending but the goal was not really down to him: our lack of organisation meant that they had a man over on the free kick - gross bad stuff.
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Well, on that showing we're miles better than "run away with the title" Newcastle.
Even when we were rubbish in the first half, they weren't really any better.
Eh? They were by far the better team first half.
Yes better team but not very good team.
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Amavi was at fault for the goal. Though I think he was in two minds given the two jobs he was trying to do
Id still revert to a four and cissokho on Tuesday though
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Highlights http://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-newcastle/358206
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... I worry about Amavi's defending, as watching the goals on Channel5 earlier, he got caught out again for their goal, so would maybe replace him with Cissokho.
You might well woorry about Amavi's defending but the goal was not really down to him: our lack of organisation meant that they had a man over on the free kick - gross bad stuff.
Amavi is very good as an attacking fullback.
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Got back a few minutes' ago.
Jedi was grossly disappointing and worryingly profligate.
Elphick is worryingly fallible.
Baker played better than I ever thought he would.
Bacuna played reasonably well and showed real commitment: he'd be my first-choice right back right now.
Adomah needs to be given his head: he looks like a really decent footballer.
Westwood played surprisingly well ... despite all the vitriol being thrown at him.
Tshibola looks like a star-in-waiting.
RdM, his tactics and his substitutions worry the crap out of me.
Ayew is really frustrating to watch.
I really like Kodjia's effort and capability.
RHM should have had a larger part to paly; giving him 7-8 minutes was almost a lack of faith in his obvious capability.
Nucastel were no great shakes: yes, they are clearly a well-bonded team but they didn't exactly put us to the sword.
We will get better: we are still bonding and it is down to RdM and Clarke to find the most potent mix of players.
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Watched Westwood very closely today and I'm not sure what his purpose is, he can't tackle he's certainly not quick and for a midfielder has no cut through at all, I thought he should have been replaced at half time. To see what a good midfielder looks like watch Tish, strong in the tackle can beat a man and is quick.
He made a huge difference when he came on. We drew but I think the team will get something out of this.
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I don't know a team in this league who have as many players who want to take the ball forward and dribble past players as we have. Ayew, Kodjia, Adomah ( not as wing back ) and Grealish can all drive forward with the ball at their feet and go past people. Away from home I think if it clicks that could be enjoyable to watch.
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Was Baker injured again?
As otherwise I can't understand why we'd take him off and leave Elphick on.
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Villa fans in Chicagee celebrating the goal. https://twitter.com/IanTaylor7/status/779748419581665280
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Baker was injured.
Have we at last found a midfield solution. Assuming Westwood is going to start no matter what, is the him, Tshibola and Jedinak with Ayew or Grealish playing the free role?
Surely with the players we have got we have to start clicking soon.
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Awful first half. Unacceptable.
Better second half, a bit frantic and hopeful rather than sustained quality but still better.
Play with tempo and actually attack and the crowd will respond and back the team, simple.
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Well earned point in the end.
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I don't know a team in this league who have as many players who want to take the ball forward and dribble past players as we have. Ayew, Kodjia, Adomah ( not as wing back ) and Grealish can all drive forward with the ball at their feet and go past people. Away from home I think if it clicks that could be enjoyable to watch.
Agreed although to be fair to the players and RDM I think we are already way more enjoyable to watch than last season. Its just the results that need to come.
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Midfield 3, Jedinak is a plodder and can't get around the pitch, Westwood a fairy who needs his hand holding. Ayew with the free role, McCormack and Kodjia up front. Grealish, Adomah and Gestede on the bench with Gardner. I'd bring back Cissokho, for me he's looked very solid this season and surprised me a little. Bacuna right back, Baker competing with Elphick who has so far looked a liability for the one remaining centre back spot.
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Agreed although to be fair to the players and RDM I think we are already way more enjoyable to watch than last season.
Having your head put in a vice and your face sanded down is more enjoyable than we were to watch last season, mind.
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Central midfield still is the issue. Garbage.
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Tshibola gives us balance, legs and energy. He's the only one who can run with the ball from the central midfielders.
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Tshibola gives us balance, legs and energy. He's the only one who can run with the ball from the central midfielders.
He also deeply loves God.
I'm wondering if he can bring us the celestial influence needed to lift us from the arse end of whichever league we're playing in at any given time. Because Ashley Westwood can't.
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If we can keep Tish fit I reckon he'll be a belting player for us.
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It would be stupid to only have one formation to start every game. For starters it would make us piss easy to scout for the opposition. And you also have to set up differently sometimes based on the opposition formation and strengths.
Leicester didn't make too many changes last season. There is obviously going to be a bit of tinkering here and there, but I don't see how you can expect to get any kind of consistency going if you are making changing significant changes to the formation and personnel every game.
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RDM needs to sort the midfield out. That was garbage first half.
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It would be stupid to only have one formation to start every game. For starters it would make us piss easy to scout for the opposition. And you also have to set up differently sometimes based on the opposition formation and strengths.
Leicester didn't make too many changes last season. There is obviously going to be a bit of tinkering here and there, but I don't see how you can expect to get any kind of consistency going if you are making changing significant changes to the formation and personnel every game.
I know it's exaggerating the point but by that logic you'd pick the same 11 and formation if we were playing Wimbledon 1987 as you would against Barcelona 2014.
I don't think a fluke season is worth basing something on. We should have a preferred set up but you also take into account the opposition. Do they have pace, if so where. Do they play 2, 3, 5, in midfield and so on.
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I think we'd be so much better playing 4-3-3.
O.k the downside is Westwood still getting a start but he last played well alongside D*lph and Cleverley so Tish could be the box to box player and the other two hold and give the CBs more protection.
Upfront is Kodja central and Adomah and Ayew either side.
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Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.
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I really think RDM is trying to be far too smart for his own good, particularly at this level where you don't particularly need tactical sophistication.
If he's not careful it will cost him his job.
Kodjia scored 20 goals for Bristol last season centrally, play him there.
Adomah didn't play wing back for Boro ffs, he played as right winger. Ayew is best as an inside forward.
And as previously mentioned Jedinak functioned best at Palace in a 4-3-3.
We've spent enough on these players. We need to be playing them in a formation they're all comfortable with.
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It's all about shape and balance!
We've got some outstanding players at this level but RDM seems to be struggling with how to set them up to maximise effect.
And he needs to think about using the whole squad/bench...be prepared to take tired/underperforming players off and bring on fresh legs/tactical move to wear down opposition in latter stages of the game...it worked well today but it's what any decent manager should be looking to do all the time anyway, isn't it?
Happy to have taken a point today but would have been bliss to have taken all three!
UTV!
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It would be stupid to only have one formation to start every game. For starters it would make us piss easy to scout for the opposition. And you also have to set up differently sometimes based on the opposition formation and strengths.
Leicester didn't make too many changes last season. There is obviously going to be a bit of tinkering here and there, but I don't see how you can expect to get any kind of consistency going if you are making changing significant changes to the formation and personnel every game.
I know it's exaggerating the point but by that logic you'd pick the same 11 and formation if we were playing Wimbledon 1987 as you would against Barcelona 2014.
I don't think a fluke season is worth basing something on. We should have a preferred set up but you also take into account the opposition. Do they have pace, if so where. Do they play 2, 3, 5, in midfield and so on.
Sorry, I'm not quite following the first point. I was talking about the need for consistency over the period of one season. Leicester had a settled side last season, played very well and it won them the league. The season before that, a core group of Chelsea players played in pretty much every league game and they won the league. Looking back, I can't think of too many successful sides who changed formations and players on a regular basis. Injuries and loss of form are going to play their part and there are going to be the odd necessary changes here and there, but surely there has to be some kind of consistency? I mean, how can you expect a defence to gel if you're constantly switching from a back four to a back three every week?
I agree with the second, but I think it is more pertinent in the top flight when playing better opposition. In this division though, I haven't yet seen a side that we should be overly concerned about and I would hope we almost have the arrogance to think that it doesn't matter what the opposition do anyway.
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Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.
As a defensive player in a three maybe, but he still lacks the mobility and physical presence to be anywhere near good enough for even a decent Championship outfit. I also don't think you can have him and Jedinak in the same midfield.
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In my first post I did say "set up differently sometimes", not every other game.
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If you follow it through though if we settle on 433 which involves Amavi and De Laet or Bacuna bombing on from full back and using their pace to beat people and Grealish and or Tish dricing from midfield and beating players and Ayew, Adomah and Kodjia skinning people around the box and getting shots away what exactly can they do to counter it all? This is the point, a good side will make small adjustments but generally the shape will be fairly consistent because that way everyone knows their role, knows where their mates are and knows what to expect. Working on a specific plan for a game or 2 is fine but you need to settle on a way of playing that works with your squad and then iterate from that, not do huge changes with players in unfamiliar positions, that sort of tinkering creates performances like the first half today.
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I think the change in formation was the crux of our improved performance in the second. Bringing Tshibola in was a big factor too. I think Westwood looked much better after that and played one or two good balls. It is extremely aggravating to watch him pull out of challenges, Risso mentioned the one on the edge of our box as their played steamed in to try and shoot.
Elphick had a really bad day at the office but I absolutely adored Ayew's drive today. He grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck, should have scored that curler too.
I'm another who thinks we should go with three in midfield with players playing where they are better naturally. Our formations are the reasons we've dropped so many points for me.
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In my first post I did say "set up differently sometimes", not every other game.
Fair enough and I agree that changes are needed at times. As we stand, I would hope to see some semblance of consistent selection over the coming weeks though.
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Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.
As a defensive player in a three maybe, but he still lacks the mobility and physical presence to be anywhere near good enough for even a decent Championship outfit. I also don't think you can have him and Jedinak in the same midfield.
I'd play both, or Gardner in place of one of them. I'd then work on making the team work as 3 groups of 3 (ignoring the main striker and the keeper). Right back, right centre back and right centre mid operate as a unit and same on the left. each side should then work together with and without the ball and always be a group that are supporting each other. It automatically gives you triangles when you're on the ball but it also helps define responsibilities. The attacking 3 is slightly different but involves working out who presses the ball who supports the defensive players, etc. It's just a hunting in packs concept really but if you get it right it's incredibly effective, especially the attacking unit in it.
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Westwood in a three would be fine. I know it's not popular, but he is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.
As a defensive player in a three maybe, but he still lacks the mobility and physical presence to be anywhere near good enough for even a decent Championship outfit. I also don't think you can have him and Jedinak in the same midfield.
I'd play both, or Gardner in place of one of them. I'd then work on making the team work as 3 groups of 3 (ignoring the main striker and the keeper). Right back, right centre back and right centre mid operate as a unit and same on the left. each side should then work together with and without the ball and always be a group that are supporting each other. It automatically gives you triangles when you're on the ball but it also helps define responsibilities. The attacking 3 is slightly different but involves working out who presses the ball who supports the defensive players, etc. It's just a hunting in packs concept really but if you get it right it's incredibly effective, especially the attacking unit in it.
The problem I see with playing a midfield three is we haven't got the players to make the right balance in there. Heard Garry Thompson talking on WM on the way home from the game and he was saying that he thinks we need to quicken the tempo and be a little more direct at times. Get the ball up to Kodjia or in behind teams and then press them, with Jedinak there to win any balls that come out. I thought when Tshibola came on today, he won a lot of second balls and challenges which gave us momentum and is something Westwood just doesn't do. Ideally we would have another player like Tshibola and we could really press teams, with Jedinak providing support behind.
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I agree. Westwood and Jedinak would both want to be the central deep lying guy in a 433. Albeit very different players.
Tshibola looks like he can do one of the 'up and down' roles.
Bacuna definitely can't and I'm sick of seeing him tried there
Gardner? Maybe. But he'd have to improve his passing
The only other contender is grealish. And none of us really know if he can. He'd have to improve his defensive positioning
On the complaints about playing kodjia up front - from what I've seen, he's done a lot of his best work when gestede is in the pitch and / or from wide
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The Mail's "findings" from yday
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-analysis-captains-character-11934590
Thanks for the insights guys
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Sometimes i think its like rock, paper, scissors you set your team up trying to predict what the other team will do and they do the opposite. The first half yesterday was the first time this season a team has come to VP and had a real go at us. RDM changed our formation at half time and got it spot on.
Only one team was going to win that game in the end, we need to take this momentum to Barnsley and start our climb up the table.
Good to see Gollini redeem himself with a couple of crackin saves especially that one on one. Tschibola has to start in the week he's a colossus.Keep Ayew on corners.
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Just home from the game. I would like to think that game was a turning point. I agree with PWS that it could be the catalyst for winning performances. Unlike previous games we got stronger as the game went on. We had nailed on automatic promotion certainties Newcastle on the ropes and should have won the game. We showed two important things yesterday, fighting spirit and a will to stick it to the opposition even though a number of our players, Jedinak, Elphick, Chester and Amavi were AWOL on Planet Lambert. A game of two thirds and one third.
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I really think RDM is trying to be far too smart for his own good, particularly at this level where you don't particularly need tactical sophistication.
If he's not careful it will cost him his job.
Kodjia scored 20 goals for Bristol last season centrally, play him there.
Adomah didn't play wing back for Boro ffs, he played as right winger. Ayew is best as an inside forward.
And as previously mentioned Jedinak functioned best at Palace in a 4-3-3.
We've spent enough on these players. We need to be playing them in a formation they're all comfortable with.
totally agree
adomah and bacuna swapped positions at least 3 times in the first half
it shouldnt be that hard to play people in their right positions. we really need to have a settled formation and start to pick up wins as if we aint in the play offs at the end of the season it will a disaster
our big problem is that the team looks so unbalanced with minimal central midfield options
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I honestly think RDM doesn't know his strongest line up and formation yet. Hopefully yesterday's second half showing might help him.
Thought Tshibola was so much better than either Westwood or Jedinak and we definitely need another CM in January.
Glad to see Hepburn Murphy a chance hopefully see more of him as he is definitely an exciting prospect.
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Sometimes i think its like rock, paper, scissors you set your team up trying to predict what the other team will do and they do the opposite. The first half yesterday was the first time this season a team has come to VP and had a real go at us. RDM changed our formation at half time and got it spot on.
Only one team was going to win that game in the end, we need to take this momentum to Barnsley and start our climb up the table.
Good to see Gollini redeem himself with a couple of crackin saves especially that one on one. Tschibola has to start in the week he's a colossus.Keep Ayew on corners.
It was pretty obvious that Newcastle would have a go - they've won every away game since Fulham
It was also obvious they'd play 4231 because that's what Rafa always plays
We haven't really bought to play 433 but I think we probably need to start playing it
Gollini
Bacuna Chester baker cissokho
Tshibola Jedinak grealish
Kodjia gestede ayew
I think that's what I'd play v Barnsley unless McCormack is fit
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We shouldn't start Gestede. He causes chaos in tiring defences as long as we are on the front foot. I still can't fathom why we started 3 central defenders when they only play 1 up top. We were always going to be up against it in the midfield anyway with Diame and Shelvey in there. That's why the switch to Tish at half time made all the difference.
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Spot on Stuart.
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We shouldn't start Gestede. He causes chaos in tiring defences as long as we are on the front foot. I still can't fathom why we started 3 central defenders when they only play 1 up top. We were always going to be up against it in the midfield anyway with Diame and Shelvey in there. That's why the switch to Tish at half time made all the difference.
Definitely agree on the midfield side of things
Am unsure on gestede. Think he's been good at home when starting too. If McCormack is fit he could come in tho it would require a tweak. Maybe he has to play from the left or behind the strikers
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I thought in the second half as part of a three Westwood offered more than I've seen from him all season. I'm not saying he was David Platt or Sid (or even a Mortimer or Bremner) but he made some decent supporting runs on the left, played a number of decent passes and looked more and more part of the game. As part of the three and not with a two he's better. As others have said as a two he hasn't shown the ability.
The first half his lack of physicality, his inability to deal with Shelvey and crab-like passing showed the worst of him. Mind you thought Shelvey should have been sent off for that tackle on him.
I still not sure why the chancer took off baker instead of Elphick although moving to a four and stiffening the midfield made sense. We have pace to burn up top but need someone to play channel balls with some regularity - when we did attack their full backs and centre halves you could see the growing panic in the opposition.
Overall the ball is moved far too slowly back to front for my liking. This rolling it out to a centre back to be knocked across the penalty area is all well and good when you're 3 up but in this league you need to get it forward - times yesterday when Gollini stood ball in hand edge of the box with no one demanding the ball.
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A couple of people have already suggested what I said walking out the game, that could kick our season off. It was Newcastle's turn throw a lead away and it was nice to come back and we could have won it. It wasn't all good though, the first half was dire. A well earned point in the end for a change rather than a disappointing one.
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A couple of people have already suggested what I said walking out the game, that could kick our season off. It was Newcastle's turn throw a lead away and it was nice to come back and we could have won it. It wasn't all good though, the first half was dire. A well earned point in the end for a change rather than a disappointing one.
yep, its the kind of result good teams get. Play bad for a lot of the game and still get something out of it and maybe should have won it
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I think 4-3-3 is the way with Koj up front with McCormack and Ayew either side. For me, Grealish has put himself on the bench so he'll have to force his way in although in honesty I cannot see where he and the aforementioned three fit into a team together.
As I have said previously, for all the money spent on improving attacking areas, we missed a huge trick not getting another midfielder. Tish looks good but he's young and injury prone and without him our midfield looks hopelessly immobile.
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If we buy one player in Jan I hope it's a box to box type midfielder
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We appear to have an excess of talent up front.We need Tshibola to stay fit and a three man
Midfield to compensate for Jedinaks l.ack of pace.Both the goalkeeper and Chester are in form.Di Matteo doesn't appear to have a tactical brain but he did get the Baggies promoted
So you would think he would know what is required.
We rode our luck somewhat yesterday but crucially we didn't lose.Elphick is becoming a problem that needs solving
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Player ratings:
Gollini 7
Chester 6
Elphick 4
Baker 7
Adomah 6
Bacuna 5 (mf) 6 (rb)
Jedinak 4
Westwood 5
Amavi 5 (lwb) 7 (lb)
Ayew 7 (5 and then 9)
Kodjia 7 (6 and then 8)
Subs: RHM 6, gestede 7, Tshibola 7
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Apparently we celebrated the equaliser like we'd won a cup, although I'm not sure how Newcastle supporters would know what that kind of celebration looked like.
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Matt's match ratings have just reminded me at how well the Russian did when he came on yesterday. He caused them a few problems.
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We drew that because they do what we do. Panic when winning with 20/25 to go.
Elphick is not at all the player I had been led to believe and hoped he would be. He looks a bit shit at the moment.
Hopefully this puts to bed any notion RDM has of 3-5-2.
I thought after the Forest game that was the turning point because we'd played very well, it wasn't, but hopefully this late goal will kick us on.
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It's too early to say, but I think you could argue we have turned a bit of a turning point mentally - twice coming back and ice holding out
Not exactly a revolution but we were starting from a low base!
We'll only know in time
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Just seen the highlights on C5. How the f*** the Ref and his Assistant who were both praised by commentator for offside and Tshibloa "dive" did not send off Shelvy? 2 marginal decisions against us and a clear cut sending off missed.
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All down to confidence and belief for me. We could do with a few wins and a bit more luck-although today was not about luck. Very much still a work in progress.
Agreed. Confidence/self belief will decide our fate this season. There is some great talent at Di Mateos disposal. If he can find the right combination this squad will be our best in years. Wins will bring the conference. That 20 minute spell of sustained pressure will bring the self confidence that has been lacking. I can't remember the last time a villa team managed to put the opposition under such pressure for so long. For me that was a very big deal for us and the manager can use that as a springboard for progress. Encouraging.
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I'm not sure what the aversion is to a good old-fashioned 4-4-2
Amavi put a few good crosses into the box yesterday, but one thing Ayew isn't is a target man, and they all went to waste.
Given just whay an abomination the team selection and formation was yesterday, I can't how this could be any worse:
Gollini
Bacuna Elphick Chester Amavi
Adomah Jedinak Tshibola Grealish
Gestede Kodija/Ayew
There are several permutations you could go with there, like playing Kodija on the wing and Ayew up front for example.
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Just seen the highlights on C5. How the f*** the Ref and his Assistant who were both praised by commentator for offside and Tshibloa "dive" did not send off Shelvy? 2 marginal decisions against us and a clear cut sending off missed.
Spot on. How the fuck can the lino possibly claim to see an offside with so many bodies in the melee and no one in an obvious offside position? Not sure about the pen but Shelvey should definitely have been sent off. Officials definitely had a soft spot for the Geordies.
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We shouldn't start Gestede. He causes chaos in tiring defences as long as we are on the front foot. I still can't fathom why we started 3 central defenders when they only play 1 up top. We were always going to be up against it in the midfield anyway with Diame and Shelvey in there. That's why the switch to Tish at half time made all the difference.
Agree about Gestede. Seems to be more effective when he comes on in the latter stages and causes problems.
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I'm not sure what the aversion is to a good old-fashioned 4-4-2
Amavi put a few good crosses into the box yesterday, but one thing Ayew isn't is a target man, and they all went to waste.
Given just whay an abomination the team selection and formation was yesterday, I can't how this could be any worse:
Gollini
Bacuna Elphick Chester Amavi
Adomah Jedinak Tshibola Grealish
Gestede Kodija/Ayew
There are several permutations you could go with there, like playing Kodija on the wing and Ayew up front for example.
Because you get overrun in the middle, you look completely static and if literally your only plan is 'lob some crosses in' then you're a mid-table Championship club in your mind as well as your position.
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442 can work if you're a Leicester or athletico - have an incredibly disciplined and high energy game plan
That's not us. Good to have the option from the bench
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A few games ago we were generally being the better team, making chances but missing something upfront. We signed Kodjia and since then have tried various formations and selections and seen a drop in performance and the chances dry up a little.
Maybe we should return to what we started with, we have a better striker now, go back to the 4-3-3 go back to the players we generally dominated with.
Cissokho left back, Bacuna right back, Chester and Elphick.
Gardner, Westwood and Tshibola in Midfield.
Ayew, Kodjia and McCormack in front of them.
Jedinak to come on around the hour mark if we need to close the game down a bit and add a little strength.
Just a thought.
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Just before the equaliser I said if it was us defending a 1-0 lead you would feel a goal coming. Newcastle were exactly the same, falling deeper and deeper and the panic throughout their team was almost tangible in the stands.
The formation in the first half obviously didn't work. The two wing backs didn't know where they should be playing and and neither did the centre backs. Playing Adomah wide on the right meant him and Bacuna, if Bacuna was supposed to be the wing back, were playing in the same space meaning Bacuna wandered into a central attacking position at one point leaving Admoah at wing back. The formation needs to fit the players strengths as we don't seem to gave bought players to fit a specific formation.
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Matt's match ratings have just reminded me at how well the Russian did when he came on yesterday. He caused them a few problems.
Да. Его выступление было весьма удовлетворительным.
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Just seen the highlights on C5. How the f*** the Ref and his Assistant who were both praised by commentator for offside and Tshibloa "dive" did not send off Shelvy? 2 marginal decisions against us and a clear cut sending off missed.
He (the shite Ref) certainly appeared to be every bit as bad in the, ahem, highlights as those who witnessed the whole 90 minutes thought he was. If a Villa player had done 'A Shelvey', I'm convinced he'd have got a straight red. I know our lot make it very difficult for themselves with their stupid challenges & countless yellow cards, but it doesn't excuse the appalling myopic veiws of the duff officials strutting about in The Championship. Still, it's hardly surprising that the Ref's down 'ere are so poor when you consider the punishment for being rubbish in The Prem is demotion to this sodding level! I guess they have something in common with The Villa after all... :o
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I'll probably get stick for saying it but Amavi is just not up to the job
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I'll probably get stick for saying it but Amavi is just not up to the job
Your quite right in my opinion. Shouldnt be near the team at the moment.
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That first half was just dreadful but second half gives me renewed hope. Should have won it by the end, but playing 5 at the back just doesn't work for us. I liked the look of the midfield once that buffoon Westwood went off, and if we could only keep Tshibola fit we may finally get the midfield we've been calling for since Petrov retired.
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Lucky. Dreadful performance. Newcastle should have been out of sight.
Ah well.
I thought we were much the better side in the second half, and the Newcastle fans I overheard acknowledged this. Yes there were poor performances (Jedinak) but some moments of skill from Villa in the 2nd half were fantastic, and we would have been worth a 2-1 win at the end.
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Lucky. Dreadful performance. Newcastle should have been out of sight.
Ah well.
First definitely, but based on the second half? Not a chance. We deserved a point and could have won it in the end.
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That was the first game in a very long time that I have enjoyed the added time. Another minute and we would have won that game. The jardies did not know whether their arseholes were punched, bored or countersunk. As our vicar used to say.
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If we can play like we did for the last half hour on a consistent basis teams are not going to be able to live with it. The manager got it wrong in the first half but I will give the benefit of the doubt given players being unavailable and the fact that he fixed it at half time. Newcastle were clinging on at the end and we were well worth the point.
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It was the exact opposite of the Huddersfield, Forest and Bristol City games were by we should have been out of site well before the opposition had there spell, hopefully that will give us the confidence to push on now.
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I thought Westwood was beyond appalling yesterday, but surely now with Tshibola fit again and looking the real deal we'll actually witness a game where Westwood isn't on the team sheet? He's been the main weak link in the Villa team for years now and only now have we finally got an alternative to him. Roll on Tuesday.
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Lucky. Dreadful performance. Newcastle should have been out of sight.
Ah well.
First definitely, but based on the second half? Not a chance. We deserved a point and could have won it in the end.
We played well for twenty minutes, in my opinion. A good point.
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I'm no Westwood fan, but he wasn't as bad as Jedinek yesterday.
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I do find it remarkable that in a game where there were 3-4 players who comfortably had worse games than him that Westwood still gets singled out by some people. He's not great, but he's also nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be.
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Westwood has been our best midfielder the last few games, hence why weve been off the pace. We need more.
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I do find it remarkable that in a game where there were 3-4 players who comfortably had worse games than him that Westwood still gets singled out by some people. He's not great, but he's also nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be.
I agree. He does a job of making himself available, moving the ball on to the more creative players and rarely losing possession. We don't have anyone else who can do that so until we get somebody who can do that job but with a bit more dynamism I think he is going to be in the side.
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I thought Westwood was beyond appalling yesterday, but surely now with Tshibola fit again and looking the real deal we'll actually witness a game where Westwood isn't on the team sheet? He's been the main weak link in the Villa team for years now and only now have we finally got an alternative to him. Roll on Tuesday.
Genuine question: who was worse, Jedinak or Westwood?
Edit: I see I've been pre-empted. I agree it's extraordinary.
But then a lot of people have been calling for ayew to be dropped.
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One day I would love to see a video of westwood in training. It must be genuinely world class.
Exactly this! Was thinking this at yesterday's match. In training he must play like a mix between Sid Cowans, Dennis Mortimer and Ian Taylor.
With just a light sprinkling of Platini, Zidane and Iniesta for a bit of exotic flair.
I doubt it though, because he's shite.
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I'll make the point again: Jedinak's played about three games for the club, there is room for improvement. Westwood has been doing his Willow the Wisp impression for four fucking years. I've seen enough to know he's a division above where he should be. And it's not about yesterday, it's about this season and probably the next in the Championship.
Moving the ball on? Christ. He needs to offer a lot more than that, and is one of the reasons we've been so lightweight in midfield since TPL was stinking the place out with his idiotic brand of non-football.
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If the Jedi could have completed half his passes in the second half we would probably be celebrating a good win. Give him another few games then decide. We finally started to pick up the second ball but his passing was awful (he did make one decent one in the first half though)
Watching Ayew and Kodjia dribbling with the ball was very entertaining (whisper it - Villa were entertaining) and the Tish made a difference once he got up to pace. I can only hope that RDM finally see that we have a decent team if he just plays to strengths.
Amavi is ok when he decides to have a run at defenders. We still move the ball at a glacial pace most of the time and telegraph passes. At least we aren't bottom 3 ;-)
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As many have said the first half was poor all round. Once the subs were made and the formation changed it was a completely different game. Suddenly everyone looked more confident on and off the ball. In the end Newcastle the team that will 'walk' this league, were hanging on. I'm hoping this will give the team the confidence for the next two away games.
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As many have said the first half was poor all round. Once the subs were made and the formation changed it was a completely different game. Suddenly everyone looked more confident on and off the ball. In the end Newcastle the team that will 'walk' this league, were hanging on. I'm hoping this will give the team the confidence for the next two away games.
Yes that's right I agree and congratulations for travelling so far to watch the team.We had one local who apparently left at half time. Mind you we left straight after Tshibola's late equaliser!
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I'd like to give Albert a bit of credit yesterday. A couple of balls coming into the box from the left 1st half that he was breaking his balls to convert at the far post, like a good winger should. He played Codger in for his early effort but didn't admire his handiwork, rather was right behind him in the 18yd box almost picking up the rebound.
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I do find it remarkable that in a game where there were 3-4 players who comfortably had worse games than him that Westwood still gets singled out by some people. He's not great, but he's also nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be.
Having seen every home game so far this season, he looks as bad in the Championship as he did in the Premier League. He's just too slow and weak and his other attributes are not good enough to make up for it. As a defensive midfielder in a three man midfield, you might get away with him playing. Playing him in any other formation and the midfield is going to be badly weakened as a result.
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I'd like to give Albert a bit of credit yesterday. A couple of balls coming into the box from the left 1st half that he was breaking his balls to convert at the far post, like a good winger should. He played Codger in for his early effort but didn't admire his handiwork, rather was right behind him in the 18yd box almost picking up the rebound.
Playing wing back meant his attacking opportunities were limited, bug he did whip in one great cross in the first half. I would like to see us play with genuine wide players, as I think that means we will be able to stretch sides.
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Apart from the obvious dire 60-70mins I still can't understand what jedinak gives us that joe Lyden couldn't he was so much off the pace and caught out many times yesterday that it became embarrassing
As for Westwood well it's been so long now that everyone except the manager can see he just isn't up to it even though we have dropped a division.
If Newcastle had played a midfield of Ellie Simmonds hannah Cockcroft and and peppa pig he would of still been caught out out
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I think the view that we've seen a lot of Westwood so know what he's about, but not need to give Jedinak more time, is right
But people on this thread and on the evening mail site are suggesting Westwood was the worse of the two yday. They must just see the game differently from me. Westwood was only mildly effective and sometimes a liability. Jedinak was almost as much of a liability as elphick
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Matt Collins
Thing is we can't have 3 players who are pretty much a liability.
Jedinak hopefully will get better elphick I think is just having a blip
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This game showed the importance of sports psychology. 1-0 up and the Villa players drop back, try to defend the lead, lost a late goal. 0-1 down and with 20 minutes to go they think we can get something, attack and get a goal in the 88th. Plus the ball in theback of the net and hitting the post
Aided by some good substitutions esp Gestede. Newcastle were looking for him and Tishbola came in to score.
But its sports psychology we need. When 1-0 up most teams try to push on. Villa's players retreat and lose late goals. Ask Sunderland and Stoke fans what they think of late goals. Defend deep and you will concede. So don't do it,
Cut out the air ball too. The ball in the air is not under control
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I think the view that we've seen a lot of Westwood so know what he's about, but not need to give Jedinak more time, is right
But people on this thread and on the evening mail site are suggesting Westwood was the worse of the two yday. They must just see the game differently from me. Westwood was only mildly effective and sometimes a liability. Jedinak was almost as much of a liability as elphick
I agree that Westwood wasn't as bad as Jedinak, but seeing as Jedinak had an absolute shocker that isn't saying much is it?
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Roberto Di Matteo spoke to the press following the 1-1 draw with Newcastle.
His views are below.
On the draw…
I think certainly the second half was very good.
We really put them under pressure, especially the last half an hour.
We created a lot of good opportunities and got ourselves into very good positions but just missed that man at the end of a cross or pass or pull-back.
We controlled the second half much, much better.
We were more positive with the ball. We showed that we can turn a game around, even though we didn’t win it.
We had plenty of chances to win it.
On maintaining momentum…
Our challenge is to turn the draws into wins.
We have drawn games and that’s what the table reflects.
This is our challenge.
On getting closer…
We have got close a few times.
It was great to see the spirit from the team today – coming back from one-down to earn a draw against a very good Newcastle team that is defensively very solid.
We managed to create some good chances, equalised and tried to go on and win the game as well.
On the late leveller changing the mentality…
I hope so.
Against Forest, we turned the game around too.
Unfortunately we conceded the equaliser in that one.
Today we were 1-0 down and got it back.
We pushed on to really get the second goal too.
There’s a degree of belief that if we concede a goal the game is not over.
On Aaron Tshibola’s contribution…
We know his qualities.
Luckily he got the equaliser.
Hopefully he can get a bit of continuity into his game now.
He missed out a while with injury.
He is certainly a player we have faith in.
On integrating new players…
Every week that goes past helps us in those terms.
We had another debut from the start again with Albert Adomah.
In the last three or four games it’s been a little bit like that, with players getting debuts.
The time going by will certainly be in our favour.
On Albert Adomah performance…
He started as a wing back.
Then we changed our formation and he was a little bit further forward as a winger.
He obviously hasn’t played a full game for a long time.
You could see that a little bit in the second half.
On Jack Grealish’s absence…
We have fined the boy and he was suspended for today’s game.
Tomorrow he will be back with the group, available for selection and we will move on.
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Apart from the obvious dire 60-70mins I still can't understand what jedinak gives us that joe Lyden couldn't he was so much off the pace and caught out many times yesterday that it became embarrassing
As for Westwood well it's been so long now that everyone except the manager can see he just isn't up to it even though we have dropped a division.
If Newcastle had played a midfield of Ellie Simmonds hannah Cockcroft and and peppa pig he would of still been caught out out
love him or hate him so far this season he hasn't scored or created a goal. In his villa career he has only scored 5 goals. 2 were in one game. Who was our last goal scoring midfielder? Taylor?
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I'll probably get stick for saying it but Amavi is just not up to the job
I don't think he is either
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I'll probably get stick for saying it but Amavi is just not up to the job
I don't think he is either
He looks decent going forward but has been suspect defensively. Although he is only young, I don't think his future lies at full-back. Didn't he play in midfield or on the wing for the French U21's?
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Looked plenty good enough against Yanited and a whole host of other decent sides last season so -who knows- he might be just finding his way back after a longterm injury.
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Looked plenty good enough against Yanited and a whole host of other decent sides last season so -who knows- he might be just finding his way back after a longterm injury.
That's true, remember Delph was shite for at least a year after coming back from injury. I also agree that he's probably better as a left midfielder than left back, and that is where I'd play him. He's very skilful and puts in a superb cross, he's also prepared to battle but that's sometimes where he comes up short.
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The Guardian article about the game barely f**king mentions us.
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When I see Westwood walking out I can feel myself getting angry and my blood starting to boil. He is so invisible during the 90 minutes though that its not long before you forget about him.
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The thing with Westwood is that he is never the worst player on the pitch but, also, never the best. I have never seen him have an outstanding game. He is just too conservative. For a team that needs to be progressive to get out of this division, having Westwood in the team is a waste of a position on the team sheet.
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Westwood reminds me of those people at work that just coast along, never getting deeply involved with anything, never making waves, never having anything other than a neutral opinion, skillfully avoiding any sort of responsibility, beavering away but only having an impact on the "low hanging fruit"who manage to remain with the firm for 20 years to the bemusement of anyone who has worked with them.
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Westwood is the Bartleby of our midfield. He doesn't do anything but we can't seem to get rid of him.
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The thing with Westwood is that he is never the worst player on the pitch but, also, never the best. I have never seen him have an outstanding game. He is just too conservative. For a team that needs to be progressive to get out of this division, having Westwood in the team is a waste of a position on the team sheet.
But I think that is what managers like about him. They want a Steady Eddie type to do the boring stuff to allow others to do the more progressive work. Perhaps because that is the same job that a number of our recent managers did as players is why he has been a regular over a number of seasons. We need a player who can do the same job of keeping things ticking over and not giving the ball away but with a little more dynamism but until we get a player who demonstrates that they can do that I think he will continue to be in the side more often than not.
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The thing with Westwood is that he is never the worst player on the pitch but, also, never the best. I have never seen him have an outstanding game. He is just too conservative. For a team that needs to be progressive to get out of this division, having Westwood in the team is a waste of a position on the team sheet.
But I think that is what managers like about him. They want a Steady Eddie type to do the boring stuff to allow others to do the more progressive work. Perhaps because that is the same job that a number of our recent managers did as players is why he has been a regular over a number of seasons. We need a player who can do the same job of keeping things ticking over and not giving the ball away but with a little more dynamism but until we get a player who demonstrates that they can do that I think he will continue to be in the side more often than not.
The issue is that he cannot influence games. I think once Jedinek gets up to speed, he will influence defensively where Westwood does not. Tshibola has the legs and is strong, something that Westwood does not possess. So in a midfield three, that leaves creativity. With the best will in the world, Westwood does not offer that.
To accommodate Westwood, you are almost forced into two defensive midfield players which is never going to get us promoted.
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You can't have a midfielder in the team just to play easy 10 yard passes.
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You can't have a midfielder in the team just to play easy 10 yard passes.
Is what it boils down to.
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It was fun watching Westwood in the second half on Saturday. He seemed to throw away the steady Eddie persona and turn into my Labrador. He just seemed to leg it forward aimlessly when anyone was holding the ball (stick). He'd then turn around to find that the ball (stick) hadn't been passed (thrown) in his direction and come back. Bizarre analogy I know but that's what watching Villa does to me.
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Looked plenty good enough against Yanited and a whole host of other decent sides last season so -who knows- he might be just finding his way back after a longterm injury.
Maybe, but even in that game (against Manchester United) he made some pretty basic defensive errors. The one on Saturday was schoolboy stuff and was exactly like the first goal at Luton.
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Yes, that's what he reminds me of. Either a daft dog, or a crisp packet in a breeze.
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Looked plenty good enough against Yanited and a whole host of other decent sides last season so -who knows- he might be just finding his way back after a longterm injury.
Maybe, but even in that game (against Manchester United) he made some pretty basic defensive errors. The one on Saturday was schoolboy stuff and was exactly like the first goal at Luton.
It's the risk you take, playing that sort of full-back/wing back.
Yedlin didn't look much cop defensively when we were running at him second half. England international Kyle Walker -who has just signed a long-term contract for Champions of the Universe Tottingham- STILL looks suspect defensively at times.
We could look for a Steady Eddie Luke Young-type, I wouldn't be against that at all. But it changes the way you play. Part of the reason you play an attacking wing-back is that you actually want the opposition to go at you at what they perceive to be a vulnerability. That draws them out and -if you're good enough- you can exploit the space. Or you back your wingback to be causing their flank enough problems and playing enough of the game in their half -removing most of the threat they possess.
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Westwood is the Bartleby of our midfield. He doesn't do anything but we can't seem to get rid of him.
'Westwood, cover that runner from midfield!'
'I would prefer not to.'
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Looked plenty good enough against Yanited and a whole host of other decent sides last season so -who knows- he might be just finding his way back after a longterm injury.
Maybe, but even in that game (against Manchester United) he made some pretty basic defensive errors. The one on Saturday was schoolboy stuff and was exactly like the first goal at Luton.
It's the risk you take, playing that sort of full-back/wing back.
Yedlin didn't look much cop defensively when we were running at him second half. England international Kyle Walker -who has just signed a long-term contract for Champions of the Universe Tottingham- STILL looks suspect defensively at times.
We could look for a Steady Eddie Luke Young-type, I wouldn't be against that at all. But it changes the way you play. Part of the reason you play an attacking wing-back is that you actually want the opposition to go at you at what they perceive to be a vulnerability. That draws them out and -if you're good enough- you can exploit the space. Or you back your wingback to be causing their flank enough problems and playing enough of the game in their half -removing most of the threat they possess.
I think the game has changed in respect of the full-back role and the emphasis now seems to be on what full-backs can do in attack rather than in defence. My personal preference would be to have a solid back four with full-backs who are defensively sound first and foremost, but can also offer something going forward. Saying that, you can only really have those type of full-backs if you have wide players playing ahead of them. I would say De Laet (before he got injured) and Cissokho fall in to that camp, whereas Bacuna and Amavi would be more of the attacking type.
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Westwood is the Bartleby of our midfield. He doesn't do anything but we can't seem to get rid of him.
'Westwood, cover that runner from midfield!'
'I would prefer not to.'
Clappy thing.
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the ironic cheers around me when he went off on Saturday were deafening