The underlying problem...

[silhillvilla]

There is a real acceptance of defeat within the club.

There you have boiled it down perfectly.

There is no pressure. When you're a millionaire - which managers and players tend to be these days - you need pressure to spur you on. But the likes of Gabby can coast on the pitch, and each manager will have a ready-made excuse, because every season is all about staying in the league.

Pressure or pride and a winning mentality ?? Look at Sir Alex, worth tens of millions yet he was a driven determined winner for decades. You cannot teach or learn that , it comes from within.

[Jimbo]

He was at Man Utd, a club that won't accept defeat.

[Villa in Denmark]

He was at Man Utd, a club that won't accept defeat.

They'd accepted 20 years of pretty much incescent mediocrity at a time when you didn't need to spend a fortune, but managing to blow a fortune anyway under the likes of Gordon Milne and our own BFR before he turned up.

The modern day myth of Man Utd is more the myth of SAF.

[old man villa fan]

One of the problems over the 5 years is that we haven't had a core of 4 or 5 solid experienced players to hold the team together.  An example of this is not having a team captain worthy of the position (in my opinion) over that period.  If you look at Everton, they have that core of solid professionals that have stayed with the club.

We seem to be in a constant state of change either with managers or players.  When we have wanted to get rid of players, we have generally been stuck with them, which cannot be good for the rest of the players.

[silhillvilla]

One of the biggest blows I felt was when Barry slapped in a transfer request. That was more or less at the high point of the halcyon days under the bespectacled pube head and the new Lernarian period, yet our club captain decided he wanted out and it set a tone . Barry very roundly put the club in its place as a gig well below the big boys even when we were up and amongst them .

[tomd2103]

One of the problems over the 5 years is that we haven't had a core of 4 or 5 solid experienced players to hold the team together.

Agree and would also add that I think we have lacked quality in midfield over that period as well.  We never properly replaced Barry, Milner, Young and Downing, and lack quality in that area now.  Our midfield has not been solid enough defensively or creative enough.

[brian green]

Completely agree OMVF. For the last 5 years or more where there should have been a captain on the pitch bollocking and driving and marshalling our players we have had a vacuum.  The role of captain has been relentlessly devalued up to the point of nothing but calling the coin toss.

The captain is the manager's voice on the field.  When the language being used by the manager is foreign, incoherent or non existent a voice of authority in the thick of the fight is even more necessary.

Add to that the current arrogance and the at-my-discretion attitude of referees and more than ever you need a captain to calmly and respectfully get on the referee's case to demand a level playing field. The big bee I still have buzzing in my bonnet is the kicking our most gifted players are getting. This utterly abominable concept of taking one for the team legitimising the non-football of people like Pulis. We need a hard, strong captain more than ever but seem to be blind to the need.

[mr underhill]

the antediluvian shite arse who kept Adama out for a few weeks should have been banned for the same period of time.

[Clampy]

One of the biggest blows I felt was when Barry slapped in a transfer request. That was more or less at the high point of the halcyon days under the bespectacled pube head and the new Lernarian period, yet our club captain decided he wanted out and it set a tone . Barry very roundly put the club in its place as a gig well below the big boys even when we were up and amongst them .

Or was it simply that he'd been here for over 10 years and fancied a new challenge?

[oldhill_avfc]

Isn't the important point not whether it is as bad as anything in the last five years or not, but that it is still woefully short of what is acceptable?

And that's at a time where our expectations are so low, it should be pretty much impossible to fail to satisfy them.

Whilst I agree the points total is disappointing, we have only played seven games.

One we won, so that's six to chew over.

Man Utd what's their squad worth, over 200 million? We narrowly lost.
Palace we probably deserved a point.
 Sunderland we really should have beaten.
Leicester, should have beaten.
 Baggies match was not great admittedly.
Liverpool, another team full of stars, despite their problems.

Sherwood has made mistakes, the players have too.  I'm optimistic and quite looking forward to the rest of the season, I may be a mug, may have low expectations but it won't be as bad as Mcleish or Lambert.

Whether it's good enough for Aston Villa is another argument.

Well said that man!

Should of + Could of + Didn't = Relegation.

[oldhill_avfc]

There is a thesis to be written entitled The underlying problem at Aston Villa Football Club.

The truth is that, aside from a glorious trajectory from the mid 70s to the early 80s (and that had its blips along the way) and the odd season here or there, the club has underperformed when measured against its potential since the 1930s.  Yes, for the first time in my supporting life the club has consistently underperformed for a number of seasons on the trot, but that also happened in the late 50s and even more spectacularly in the mid/late 60s. 

I don't know what that history tells us, other than perhaps there is a something deeper in the collective psyche of those that own, run, play for or support the club. A lack of ruthlessness perhaps.  A contentment with just being top dog in the city or wider region.  An acceptance that, like it or not,  just as the city is something of a national joke, then the club has to play its part in the ridicule.   Possibly it is none of those things.  But to lay all the blame for the current malaise at the door of Lerner or Fox or Sherwood or Agbonlahor I think misses the bigger picture.

There hasn't been the will, the nous or the finances to compete with the very best over a prolonged period since the days of Ramsey, Rinder et al.

The will and the finances has to come from the chairman/owner.  The nous from the (wider) team he employs. 

All looks further away than it's been during my supporting lifetime of around 45 years.

[oldhill_avfc]

Paulie Walnuts reference putting this guy in place regardless of his title will see hopefully an improvement, but again that will take time, it is the same with our scouting system, we actually look like we issue them a passport now, not a rail card.

As to us playing our part, I think for the older supporter we have seen cycles like this a number of times before, but have that hope and the memories of when we came good, but as I stated after the cup final at Wembley, I was in the hotel bar feeling miserable and stated , balls that would have made the full set, I would had seen us win and a young lad about 19 stated, lucky you, I've seen us win fuck all in my time of supporting them, so the younger Villa supporters really have nothing to hold onto or compare to and such probably allows for a lower estimation of where we sit in the grand scheme of things, allowing for a lowering of expectations that have been pushed out by the club over the last 5 years especially.

No we haven't.

Yes we have seen poor teams and relegation, but these were for relatively short periods of time.

There was always the reasonable expectation that with the right manager and financial backing that wouldn't bankrupt the club, that we could compete with the best and win the league, let alone the cups.  Of course it only happened once, but we were very close under GT, BFR and BL. 

With a mixture of the current regime and the 'development' of the PL we at an unprecendented level of uncompetitiveness.

[pauliewalnuts]

Completely agree OMVF. For the last 5 years or more where there should have been a captain on the pitch bollocking and driving and marshalling our players we have had a vacuum.  The role of captain has been relentlessly devalued up to the point of nothing but calling the coin toss.

We miss Petrov in that role.

[PeterWithe]

I know results haven't backed this up but with Lescott and Richards at centre half they do seem to talk to others far more than the Clark/Vlaar combo. Maybe they should belt up?

[tony scott]

I agree with pauliew we have missed Petrov who imo held the midfield together  I would love to see a midfielder who could consistently place a defence splitting pass.