The underlying problem...

[Malandro]

Isn't the important point not whether it is as bad as anything in the last five years or not, but that it is still woefully short of what is acceptable?

And that's at a time where our expectations are so low, it should be pretty much impossible to fail to satisfy them.

Whilst I agree the points total is disappointing, we have only played seven games.

One we won, so that's six to chew over.

Man Utd what's their squad worth, over 200 million? We narrowly lost.
Palace we probably deserved a point.
 Sunderland we really should have beaten.
Leicester, should have beaten.
 Baggies match was not great admittedly.
Liverpool, another team full of stars, despite their problems.

Sherwood has made mistakes, the players have too.  I'm optimistic and quite looking forward to the rest of the season, I may be a mug, may have low expectations but it won't be as bad as Mcleish or Lambert.

Whether it's good enough for Aston Villa is another argument.

[PeterWithe]

I fear we won't even reach 30 points this season.

If we had 29 points now you'd still worry we wouldn't get 30

[Villafirst]

The club is still in a decline that started in 2010. You look at teams like Southampton, Swansea and West Ham, and they've moved ahead of us. This is also the case with Palace which was unthinkable 5 years ago. Shocking to think where we're heading.

[Can Gana Be Bettered!?!?]

Isn't the important point not whether it is as bad as anything in the last five years or not, but that it is still woefully short of what is acceptable?

And that's at a time where our expectations are so low, it should be pretty much impossible to fail to satisfy them.

Whilst I agree the points total is disappointing, we have only played seven games.

One we won, so that's six to chew over.

Man Utd what's their squad worth, over 200 million? We narrowly lost.
Palace we probably deserved a point.
 Sunderland we really should have beaten.
Leicester, should have beaten.
 Baggies match was not great admittedly.
Liverpool, another team full of stars, despite their problems.

Sherwood has made mistakes, the players have too.  I'm optimistic and quite looking forward to the rest of the season, I may be a mug, may have low expectations but it won't be as bad as Mcleish or Lambert.

Whether it's good enough for Aston Villa is another argument.

Well said that man!

[pauliewalnuts]

"Should have beaten" when you lost is pretty meaningless, surely?

[passport1]

That occurred to me but we need as many optimists as we can muster.

[nodge]

At Leicester I remember turning to the bloke behind me when we went 2-0 up and saying 'Why do I feel worse? When they pulled one back, you felt the slow intake of breath from the crowd like we all knew what was coming.

I remember a season or so ago, Emile Heskey being quoted as saying the Villa fans 'Don't so much get on your back as go unbearably quiet'. I think my match companion's reaction of 'F off Emile, if you hadn't been so F in shit maybe we'd have had more to sing about' is a fair one, but I also think he is right.

I do think the team felt that from us at Leicester, and I think there is a difference between ' blaming the fans' and saying the continuation of a losing mentality lies with the fans. Look back over this thread and it is about how many years we have put up with this, how every one has had enough of losing and being shit. We have come to expect it?

A few posts up there's something like - Even if we beat Stoke 4-0 I'll have no confidence going into the Chelsea game because every upturn is followed by more shit. That's how we all feel now, it's like we've lost the ability to believe in anything good.

I think the Cup Final really cemented this - more than any other time we've gone to Wembley I believed this was 'our year' - it felt like all the signs were there. It emerged like a beacon out of the shiteness that surrounded it. We were in an FA Cup miracle bubble and nothing could stop us. When that bubble burst, it felt as bad as anything I'd experienced as a fan.

It becomes easier to believe that everything is shit, that when you are 2-0 up, all it is going to take is one goal from the opposition and it's all going down the pan, because believing good stuff is going to happen can only end one way can't it?

I honestly believe that with a change of manager, director, & virtually the entire playing staff, the continuation of a 'losing mentality' might lie with us. NOT, that it is our fault, but that we are ground down by it and struggling to get up. The challenge for a manager of this club, is getting a team to be able to play us out of that, rather than panic when they feel it from us. We have earned our right to be miserable and defeatist, we need a team that is able to rise above that to drag us out of it, not be pulled in with us.


 

Great post Amfy.  Strangely enough, the one game where it seemed the fans didn't believe we were going to lose was the FA Cup semi final.  The support just didn't stop and carried us through, culminating in the famous roar towards the end.  It seemed to carry on from there until our bubble burst at Southampton away (even though the support there was still great considering what happened)

[Malandro]

"Should have beaten" when you lost is pretty meaningless, surely?

It's zero points that's for sure.

I just don't think Sherwood is as bad as some make out. The summer overhaul has been much better than I expected.

[aj2k77]

Isn't the important point not whether it is as bad as anything in the last five years or not, but that it is still woefully short of what is acceptable?

And that's at a time where our expectations are so low, it should be pretty much impossible to fail to satisfy them.

Whilst I agree the points total is disappointing, we have only played seven games.

One we won, so that's six to chew over.

Man Utd what's their squad worth, over 200 million? We narrowly lost.
Palace we probably deserved a point.
 Sunderland we really should have beaten.
Leicester, should have beaten.
 Baggies match was not great admittedly.
Liverpool, another team full of stars, despite their problems.

Sherwood has made mistakes, the players have too.  I'm optimistic and quite looking forward to the rest of the season, I may be a mug, may have low expectations but it won't be as bad as Mcleish or Lambert.

Whether it's good enough for Aston Villa is another argument.

They cost more money
Should of could of
Should of could of
Should of could of
We were shit
They cost more money

Sounds like a bunch of excuses from the Blues fan playbook.

[Malandro]

Isn't the important point not whether it is as bad as anything in the last five years or not, but that it is still woefully short of what is acceptable?

And that's at a time where our expectations are so low, it should be pretty much impossible to fail to satisfy them.

Whilst I agree the points total is disappointing, we have only played seven games.

One we won, so that's six to chew over.

Man Utd what's their squad worth, over 200 million? We narrowly lost.
Palace we probably deserved a point.
 Sunderland we really should have beaten.
Leicester, should have beaten.
 Baggies match was not great admittedly.
Liverpool, another team full of stars, despite their problems.

Sherwood has made mistakes, the players have too.  I'm optimistic and quite looking forward to the rest of the season, I may be a mug, may have low expectations but it won't be as bad as Mcleish or Lambert.

Whether it's good enough for Aston Villa is another argument.

They cost more money
Should of could of
Should of could of
Should of could of
We were shit
They cost more money

Sounds like a bunch of excuses from the Blues fan playbook.

ah well

[Louzie0]

"Should have beaten" when you lost is pretty meaningless, surely?

It's zero points that's for sure.

I just don't think Sherwood is as bad as some make out. The summer overhaul has been much better than I expected.

I think Tim is true to his stated ambition of getting rid of a losing mentality.  That's the underlying problem that he identified straight away.

He is not going to come out with, ' the lads done well/ brilliant' comments post match if he doesn't think they have or if the plan they worked on during the week took a dive within the first couple of minutes.  He wants the players to be accountable and recognise when they have switched off. Good for him.

He has added exciting players to the squad. He does need time to get everybody working together.  No, I don't like being in the bottom 3 but there are months left of the season in which they will improve.  Better than being there at Xmas or in March.

If we're still there at Xmas I will be surprised.

[Nelly]

I can't blame Lerner. Is he disinterested because of personal problems, sure okay. Has he always fronted up cash and given each manager a more than healthy chunk to spend, yes I think he has. He's written off and swallowed the loans the club owes him to help it out. That's really all I can ask of a billionaire owner. He's an easy target because we all know about him and he never speaks. That's his crime apparently.

For me, our CEO's should have done more. Yes perhaps they should not have been appointed but they are the ones with the day to day running of Aston Villa FC. They, either through inaction or inability have allowed Villa to be in this inescapable rut. We've also had a lot of CEOs and that can't be good for stability or for continuity. More nous on the board at Villa and we'd do better I think. We wouldn't just blindly stand by while everything seemingly goes to shit.

[Nelly]

I must say, my worry is that it's only the fans who remember what this club is about. Or so it would seem anyway.

[villadelph]

I can't blame Lerner. Is he disinterested because of personal problems, sure okay. Has he always fronted up cash and given each manager a more than healthy chunk to spend, yes I think he has. He's written off and swallowed the loans the club owes him to help it out. That's really all I can ask of a billionaire owner. He's an easy target because we all know about him and he never speaks. That's his crime apparently.

Are you his lawyer?

[TopDeck113]

There is a thesis to be written entitled The underlying problem at Aston Villa Football Club.

The truth is that, aside from a glorious trajectory from the mid 70s to the early 80s (and that had its blips along the way) and the odd season here or there, the club has underperformed when measured against its potential since the 1930s.  Yes, for the first time in my supporting life the club has consistently underperformed for a number of seasons on the trot, but that also happened in the late 50s and even more spectacularly in the mid/late 60s. 

I don't know what that history tells us, other than perhaps there is a something deeper in the collective psyche of those that own, run, play for or support the club. A lack of ruthlessness perhaps.  A contentment with just being top dog in the city or wider region.  An acceptance that, like it or not,  just as the city is something of a national joke, then the club has to play its part in the ridicule.   Possibly it is none of those things.  But to lay all the blame for the current malaise at the door of Lerner or Fox or Sherwood or Agbonlahor I think misses the bigger picture.