International Rugby

[PaulWinch again]

Aside from the one game plan issue. I think this push to make more “hybrid” players with the idea of bringing depth, is watering down the specialist skill focus.

[Dante Lavelli]

Wow England are a shambles.  Accuracy at the basics has plummeted and we’ve never been dynamic when the play is broken.

Sorry, and well done Italy. Fully deserved.

Weird how the tactics and entertainment in the premiership is now completely at odds with the international team.

I predict a thrashing in Paris and new guy in for the autumn internationals.

[paul_e]

Aside from the one game plan issue. I think this push to make more “hybrid” players with the idea of bringing depth, is watering down the specialist skill focus.

The odd one is the insistence on trying to turn one of the best wingers on the planet into a middling centre who barely gets ball in hand. I'm also not a fan of how he's set the back row up (and that one has been a problem for a long time) with both Underhill and Earl showing today both their strengths and the limitations they bring. Earl played well but, as with picking Spencer, if you play him at 8 you force yourself into either playing a game that suits him or him being their purely for his defensive work. Today mostly turned into the latter other than for the few minutes where we pushed a few holes at the gainline. He is a very good defensive option but if you aren't going to let him carry however he likes and deal with the consequences (i.e. build your play around supporting him) you take away most of what makes him an international player. As has been the case many times, in many sports, I think we might be a better team without him, despite him not really doing anything to deserve to be dropped.

[PaulWinch again]

I hate the Freeman centre thing.

[nigel]

You watch us go and beat the French 😂

[usav]

You watch us go and beat the French 😂

Not a chance.

Sack Borthwick

[Gareth]

You watch us go and beat the French 😂

Not a chance.

Sack Borthwick

If it takes the first to get the second to happen then get it done France

[nigel]

Now the dust has settled a bit and I’m not going to hold my breath on Borthwick resigning, or the RFU pulling the plug, but who do we fancy as a replacement?

I wouldn’t mind an Andy Farrell, Sean Edwards combo.

I know Ronan O’Gara was muted a while ago, but vaguely remember him saying he wasn’t ready for an international job.

[Dave Summers]

Now the dust has settled a bit and I’m not going to hold my breath on Borthwick resigning, or the RFU pulling the plug, but who do we fancy as a replacement?

I wouldn’t mind an Andy Farrell, Sean Edwards combo.

I know Ronan O’Gara was muted a while ago, but vaguely remember him saying he wasn’t ready for an international job.

I’ve been watching England for just under 50 years, lucky enough to have been to 80 plus internationals, but Borthwick has managed to do something no one else has got close too, I’m now finished attending. I went to the Wales game and although we won 48-7, I was texting a mate on the way back telling him how utterly bored I was with seeing us hoof it every 30 seconds and not even attempt to play any rugby. I did hope that the removal of Ford would elicit a new attacking style but obviously Lee Blackett isn’t allowed to get his fingerprints over it and we play, as Paul E said, a style akin to Leicester 2000. For the quality and ability of player we have, it’s an absolute disgrace we play in such a way.

As for a new head coach, firstly they’ve got to remove Borthwick which should be done post haste after next Saturday. After that my list, in no particular order is :

Scott Robertson
Pat Lam
Johann van Gran
Franco Smith
ROG

Or if the insist he has to be English, Phil Dowson.

A head coach for an international team should have a personality, presence and gravitas, Steve Borthwick I’m sure is a decent fella, but has none of these traits. Please change it up

[paul_e]

I'd be happy with any of those but, despite it fucking my own club over, Dowson would be my choice. We need to start playing a game that suits our players and that means adopting a lot of the way saints play. There's a bit more risk to it but the rewards are worth it and it comes with the benefit of being really good to watch.