Roy Keane - new assistant manager (CONFIRMED)

[JUAN PABLO]

the scary thing is , even at 42 , he would look so much better in our team than a fit KEA or Sylla now

[citizenDJ]

He […..] was never that damn good as a player anyway…..

[Rioch is King]

I'm not sure what to make of it to be honest. Is this a Lerner appointment or a Lambert appointment? Does this mean Lambert will be the manager next season? Does this mean Lerner will be the owner next season? If the answer to  the last 2 questions is "not sure" then we shouldn't be appointing a new assistant should we? Unless it is on a rolling or temporary contract. It seems shambolic to me, much like a lot of things at the end of last season.

Doesn't it mean that as no suitable buyer has been lined up they have to continue with what we have in place now... and as the manager needs an assistant they have asked him who he would like to take that role. He knows and gets on with Keane and obviously thinks he'd could do a good job.

Lambert and Keane should then be hoping that things click quickly, Villa have a great start to the season and when the club finally gets sold to some saintly Bzillionaire they will be seen as irreplaceable.

[robbo1874]

I appreciate the importance of them being pumped and up for it, full of aggression and willing to run through walls etc, etc, and Keane might instil that. I have no problem with that.

What concerns me most is our lack of tactical nous and creativity, though, and I can't see anything in his past as a manager to suggest he'll sort that out.

It's like getting your car tuned (do people still get cars tuned? I doubt it) whilst ignoring the four flat tyres you've got.

I think the analogy would work better the other way round, the tyres are sound except the ones at the back need replacing.  The engine needs attention as it lacks any sort of power.

And there's no steering wheel.

And it's a Montego :-(

With one careless owner.

and it's an 'L' not a Vanden Plas model. Or should that be Vanden Plaar?

[supertom]

the scary thing is , even at 42 , he would look so much better in our team than a fit KEA or Sylla now

He'd still look better if he was 72.

[Richard E]

the scary thing is , even at 42 , he would look so much better in our team than a fit KEA or Sylla now

He'd still look better if he was 72.

Or if he was the Japanese bloke who has been dead for over 30 years.

[Toronto Villa]

A couple of things that have crossed my mind. We are all judging Keane on his ability as an Assistant Manager based on his managerial record. There's plenty of evidence in the game to suggest that a good assistant doesn't always become a good manager, or that a bad manager doesn't automatically translate to that person being a bad assistant or coach. What we don't know with Keane is under what terms (contract/definition of duties) he would be joining the club, and if indeed it is as assistant manager, then how good he will be in that capacity? Irrespective of what we know of him as a manager, he might be perfectly fine in a more limited capacity as an assistant.

The other thing is to call him a bully as a coach or manager isn't accurate. To the best of my knowledge that isn't something that he has been accused of as a coach or manager. He's been accused of intimidating or confrontational but that's who was as a player, and who he is as a person. It's very different though to define someone as a bully, which is something Karsa and Culverhouse got fired for. You can be aggressive, demanding and intimidating without crossing the line into being a bully.

My concern with Keane is his ability as a coach, his tactics, methods etc but in reality my judgement is also clouded by what he has done as a manager. He might be a perfectly good Assistant Manager, we just don't know.

Finally as for his playing ability, he was superb, and a player and leader any team in the world would have wanted while at his peak.

[spartacuss]

Hard player without a doubt, but not totally insensitive.  Flashback to August 2001: we're 1 - 0 up against Yanited courtesy of an early Darius Vassell goal and they are chasing an equaliser late in the game.  Keane  follows the ball out for a throw-in from the Trinity Road touchline.  The ballboy grabs the ball but is a fraction slow in giving it to Keane, so he impatiently wrests it from the ballboy.  Keane shapes up to take the throw-in, but then, in a millisecond, he turns back to the ballboy and gives him an apologetic pat on the shoulder to compensate for his impatience, before taking the delayed throw.
Up to that moment I'd always been negative about Keane seeing him as a ruthless, blinkered professional who represented the ugly side of the Murdoch-mercenary Premier League. That minor incident suggested to me that he had (has?) a more sensitive side that contrasts with the 'hard bastard' image.

"And that, M'lud, is the case for the defence..."

(BTW they got their equaliser in injury time, thanks to an Alpay o.g.)

[Monty]

Ok, just to explain, we have to remember that the Premier League wasn't as good technically back then, and in my view a lot of players looked better than they should have done because the league wasn't as good as it thought it was (viz. Cantona - league-winning star here, non-entity internationally - or the entire England team).

He had great games in him, like Beckham or Gerrard or even someone like Gattuso (he was obviously better than Gattuso, just using him as an example of players with match-winning performances in them), and was a very good player in many ways, and I accept Hilts' point entirely about their being more than one way to be a great player. However, I think history's been kind to him because of when his career fell in the grand scheme of things, and while he was respected internationally there's no way he ranks with the great global midfielders of the age like Zidane (obviously, no shame in that) or Nedved. He was as good as, say, Dunga, but not better. This is obviously just my opinion - others are available.

As a manager, however, he's shown himself to be about average-to-terrible, whatever good points he may have thoroughly outweighed by the usual nastiness, petulance and by the quite surprising incompetence tactically and stylistically. Adding in the horrible stuff from his time as a player, and I hope that he never comes near Villa Park.

[Chris Jameson]

I can remember going to Forest when they were hit by an injury crisis to their defence. Keane and Nigel Clough were their central defenders that day, neither of them had played there previously and they were superb in keeping a clean sheet against a strong Villa side.

[supertom]

My major concern with Keane is purely based on his post playing exploits, and he's managed to lose the dressing rooms of both clubs he's managed because of (to put it mildly) his abrasive attitude. He did get Sunderland up but there came a point where the results weren't coming and according to the press (yeah, I know) totally lost the dressing room. He left at the right time probably, because things were only going one way with him at the helm. By most accounts at Ipswich it never went entirely right from day one and they never got close to the promotion push people might have expected/demanded from Keane.

Our players may well respond to that style of coaching  better than they did from Culverhouse, because Keane is a playing legend. If Culverhouse was acting the big bollocks, he didn't have the pedigree to warrant that at all. Keane would have the pedigree to back up being a bit of a James Blunt. In truth half our squad does need a good kick up the ass, but more-so, the whole squad needs some tactical direction from somewhere. Keane won't provide that.

[KevinGage]

Ok, just to explain, we have to remember that the Premier League wasn't as good technically back then, and in my view a lot of players looked better than they should have done because the league wasn't as good as it thought it was (viz. Cantona - league-winning star here, non-entity internationally - or the entire England team).

He had great games in him, like Beckham or Gerrard or even someone like Gattuso (he was obviously better than Gattuso, just using him as an example of players with match-winning performances in them), and was a very good player in many ways, and I accept Hilts' point entirely about their being more than one way to be a great player. However, I think history's been kind to him because of when his career fell in the grand scheme of things, and while he was respected internationally there's no way he ranks with the great global midfielders of the age like Zidane (obviously, no shame in that) or Nedved. He was as good as, say, Dunga, but not better. This is obviously just my opinion - others are available.

As a manager, however, he's shown himself to be about average-to-terrible, whatever good points he may have thoroughly outweighed by the usual nastiness, petulance and by the quite surprising incompetence tactically and stylistically. Adding in the horrible stuff from his time as a player, and I hope that he never comes near Villa Park.

I'd disagree with the Dunga comparison.

Dunga could really only sit and hold, the Brazillian water carrier.

Keane at his best could do the lot: defence, midfield and attack.

He started off at Forest and Manure as an all action box to box midfielder.  But when a serious knee injury (self inflicted, admittedly) struck in 1996, he had the nous to adapt his game.

His career spanned the early PL era > 2005, and he was still a key player even when football in the top flight was far more technical.

[RussellC]

I'm not sure that comparing Keane to World Cup Winning captain Dunga does much to back up your argument that he wasn't a great player!

[Mister E]

A couple of things that have crossed my mind. We are all judging Keane on his ability as an Assistant Manager based on his managerial record. There's plenty of evidence in the game to suggest that a good assistant doesn't always become a good manager, or that a bad manager doesn't automatically translate to that person being a bad assistant or coach. What we don't know with Keane is under what terms (contract/definition of duties) he would be joining the club, and if indeed it is as assistant manager, then how good he will be in that capacity? Irrespective of what we know of him as a manager, he might be perfectly fine in a more limited capacity as an assistant.

The other thing is to call him a bully as a coach or manager isn't accurate. To the best of my knowledge that isn't something that he has been accused of as a coach or manager. He's been accused of intimidating or confrontational but that's who was as a player, and who he is as a person. It's very different though to define someone as a bully, which is something Karsa and Culverhouse got fired for. You can be aggressive, demanding and intimidating without crossing the line into being a bully.

My concern with Keane is his ability as a coach, his tactics, methods etc but in reality my judgement is also clouded by what he has done as a manager. He might be a perfectly good Assistant Manager, we just don't know.

Finally as for his playing ability, he was superb, and a player and leader any team in the world would have wanted while at his peak.

Were there not accusations of some bullying at Blunderland?

[supertom]

A couple of things that have crossed my mind. We are all judging Keane on his ability as an Assistant Manager based on his managerial record. There's plenty of evidence in the game to suggest that a good assistant doesn't always become a good manager, or that a bad manager doesn't automatically translate to that person being a bad assistant or coach. What we don't know with Keane is under what terms (contract/definition of duties) he would be joining the club, and if indeed it is as assistant manager, then how good he will be in that capacity? Irrespective of what we know of him as a manager, he might be perfectly fine in a more limited capacity as an assistant.

The other thing is to call him a bully as a coach or manager isn't accurate. To the best of my knowledge that isn't something that he has been accused of as a coach or manager. He's been accused of intimidating or confrontational but that's who was as a player, and who he is as a person. It's very different though to define someone as a bully, which is something Karsa and Culverhouse got fired for. You can be aggressive, demanding and intimidating without crossing the line into being a bully.

My concern with Keane is his ability as a coach, his tactics, methods etc but in reality my judgement is also clouded by what he has done as a manager. He might be a perfectly good Assistant Manager, we just don't know.

Finally as for his playing ability, he was superb, and a player and leader any team in the world would have wanted while at his peak.

Were there not accusations of some bullying at Blunderland?

Dressing room problems at Sunderland and Ipswich were heavily publicised. Conjecture of course, but it is fairly clear that Keane won't hold back for anyone and demands levels which were probably beyond the squads at his disposal. Certainly that would be the case here.