25 years today

[Ger Regan]

Seems we all seem to believe Liverpool fans were innocent then ...........

Guess they were also innocent at another game when many were killed ............ where is the justice for those guys? Or have the media misled us again?

The biggest tragedy in my eyes in football stadiums in the past 25 years was Bradford and that just almost passes without a mention ........

I am not anti Liverpool but the coverage in my eyes is simply OTT

Heysel was caused by football hooliganism. The authorities lied and said Hillsborough was about football hooliganism.

You see the difference, right?

Why was Bradford more of a tragedy than Hillsborough? Where have you formed your opinion on Hillsborough? Have you ever arrived late for kick off? Have you ever had a drink before a game? Have you ever been to a football match?

In answer to your questions ......

I think its obvious why Bradford was more of a tragedy
My opinion is based purely on that ...just the same as yours is on your opinion
If late by seconds
Drink ...NO do that after the game
Maybe never been to a game ........ I watch Villa as a season ticket holder !

Were you actually there? Unlikely so we all have views which are second hand ....but then thats whats good about this country we are are able to have a view !

Dont suppose next we will accept that Gerrard has ever thrown an elbow lol

Tedious, ignorant, biased rubbish.

[Chris Jameson]

Every time there is mention of Hillsborough some ignorant, ill informed person (to be polite) with some sort of irrational hatred of Liverpool has to mention Heysel or Bradford. It's tedious, if you feel so strongly about the two events (and they were tragic and trust me not forgotten about) then why not start a thread about the events instead of regurgitating the crap and the lies that were printed 25 years ago in a shitty little rag?

[Steve kirk]

Seems we all seem to believe Liverpool fans were innocent then ...........

Guess they were also innocent at another game when many were killed ............ where is the justice for those guys? Or have the media misled us again?

The biggest tragedy in my eyes in football stadiums in the past 25 years was Bradford and that just almost passes without a mention ........

I am not anti Liverpool but the coverage in my eyes is simply OTT

Heysel was caused by football hooliganism. The authorities lied and said Hillsborough was about football hooliganism.

You see the difference, right?

Why was Bradford more of a tragedy than Hillsborough? Where have you formed your opinion on Hillsborough? Have you ever arrived late for kick off? Have you ever had a drink before a game? Have you ever been to a football match?

In answer to your questions ......

I think its obvious why Bradford was more of a tragedy
My opinion is based purely on that ...just the same as yours is on your opinion
If late by seconds
Drink ...NO do that after the game
Maybe never been to a game ........ I watch Villa as a season ticket holder !

Were you actually there? Unlikely so we all have views which are second hand ....but then thats whats good about this country we are are able to have a view !

Dont suppose next we will accept that Gerrard has ever thrown an elbow lol

You have every right to hold the view you have however I think Dave started this thread as a sign of respect for the 96 and its now disintegrating with every response you give so can you leave it be now please?

[Nev]

Sorry, but I find the final reference to the trivial and unimportant opinions we all have regarding the merits of a footballer in this context grossly offensive.

[saunders_heroes]

I don't for one minute agree with Leicester_Villain but it does seem that the Bradford disaster has been somewhat forgotten in this country and never gets the wall to wall coverage of memorial services like Hillsborough. Perhaps it's because they have closure and there's not any controversy surrounding it, but I don't remember every league game kicking off late out of respect to those who died like it did last weekend for the Liverpool disaster.

[pauliewalnuts]

I also think a lot of people think of Hillsborough as a tragedy where lots of people died, full stop.

It would be bad enough if it were just that, but it wasn't, it was a series of lies and cover ups involving the police, the press and - almost certainly - the government of this country, which meant that those families didn't just lose their loved ones 25 years ago, they had their faces rubbed in the shit for almost that whole time after.

They've also had to live with the lingering suspicion that their relatives, or peers of them, were in some way responsible for their deaths. Imagine what that feels like. Imagine what it feels like to have your teenage daughters' dead bodies alcohol level tested to find some way of blaming them. How must that feel? How must it feel to lose your children and be treated so utterly callously by your country, your police?

They also have to put up with utter, utter bollocks of the like posted by Leicester Villain, which is a very good example of this. Some people will just never get the message, they will always think the fans were in some way to blame, they will say things like "I think it's obvious why Bradford was more of a disaster".

I genuinely find it crass, insulting and obnoxious in the extreme to see that some people still, still genuinely do feel that way. People like that are a large part of the problem, they perpetuate the myths and they go on insulting the dead and their families, because they're too dense or too bigoted to stop and have a think about the actual facts re what happened.

I just do not understand some people.

[Chris Smith]

I don't for one minute agree with Leicester_Villain but it does seem that the Bradford disaster has been somewhat forgotten in this country and never gets the wall to wall coverage of memorial services like Hillsborough. Perhaps it's because they have closure and there's not any controversy surrounding it, but I don't remember every league game kicking off late out of respect to those who died like it did last weekend for the Liverpool disaster.

I think the point you make about closure is exactly the reason. If the families, and the wider Liverpool fan base, hadn't kept it going then it would have been forgotten and the lazy assumptions would be the mainstream view.

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't for one minute agree with Leicester_Villain but it does seem that the Bradford disaster has been somewhat forgotten in this country and never gets the wall to wall coverage of memorial services like Hillsborough. Perhaps it's because they have closure and there's not any controversy surrounding it, but I don't remember every league game kicking off late out of respect to those who died like it did last weekend for the Liverpool disaster.

I think the point you make about closure is exactly the reason. If the families, and the wider Liverpool fan base, hadn't kept it going then it would have been forgotten and the lazy assumptions would be the mainstream view.

There was also a significant response to the Bradford disaster, and to what caused it - rather than a quarter of a century of blaming the innocent as happened with Hillsborough.

[saunders_heroes]

I also think a lot of people think of Hillsborough as a tragedy where lots of people died, full stop.

It would be bad enough if it were just that, but it wasn't, it was a series of lies and cover ups involving the police, the press and - almost certainly - the government of this country, which meant that those families didn't just lose their loved ones 25 years ago, they had their faces rubbed in the shit for almost that whole time after.

They've also had to live with the lingering suspicion that their relatives, or peers of them, were in some way responsible for their deaths. Imagine what that feels like. Imagine what it feels like to have your teenage daughters' dead bodies alcohol level tested to find some way of blaming them. How must that feel? How must it feel to lose your children and be treated so utterly callously by your country, your police?

They also have to put up with utter, utter bollocks of the like posted by Leicester Villain, which is a very good example of this. Some people will just never get the message, they will always think the fans were in some way to blame, they will say things like "I think it's obvious why Bradford was more of a disaster".

I genuinely find it crass, insulting and obnoxious in the extreme to see that some people still, still genuinely do feel that way. People like that are a large part of the problem, they perpetuate the myths and they go on insulting the dead and their families, because they're too dense or too bigoted to stop and have a think about the actual facts re what happened.

I just do not understand some people.

Basically it's because a lot of football fans just don't like scousers and the perceived 'victim mentality' that they allegedly have.
I must admit I find the constant minute silences, memorial services etc a bit tiresome.
That said, I hope they get justice.

[Andy Poole]

I was at the Villa, West Ham game. I was about 8 rows from the back of the stand and was leaning on the barrier above a stairway. I got crushed there!

The day of Hillsborough found me at Parkhead to watch Rangers play St Johnstone in a Scottish Cup Semi-Final. On grabbing a cab after the game to get back to the station, the Taxi driver said something had happened and a few people had been hurt.
Coming through Carlisle, I think, a load of Blackpool fans got on and were taking the piss because they'd heard that a few Liverpool fans had died. This caused a bit of trouble, no love lost back then apparently.
Finally got to Crewe and had to change trains. I managed to call my then wife and was told possibly upto 10 dead. A train load of Leeds pulled in and this caused a major distraction so I was unable to find out any more until much later.

It could have been us at Hillsborough, had we had a slightly better team, it might have been.

I have a Forest supporting mate, who was in the Kop that day and although he went to the rearranged game, he has never been since.

I remember Blackburn away in '87 I think or maybe '88. It was the league game, we had not long beaten them in the cup at their place. My mate got trapped at the base of a floodlight pylon as Villa piled out after the game. There was a fair bit of trouble IIRC.

I was at Swindon too. Funniest part of that day was one mate, pissing up the back of another mates legs on the terrace because we were too jammed in to get to the toilets! Still get's mentioned today that!

RIP the 96.
As Peter Tosh said. 'Ain't gonna be no peace, 'till man gets equal rights and justice'

[ACVilla]

For just one day respect the 96.

Whatever your views, Ill informed or not, today Is just not the day.

[johnny from donny]

Firstly, I don't like Liverpool Football Club, I would probably put them in my top 3 of teams I dislike.
 I only mention that because,secondly,(and more importantly) it doesn't matter that I don't like them! What matters is that 25 years ago today,96 people went to a football match and never came home.
96 of our fellow fans (the colour of their scarf is irrelevant) died and 25 years later the families are just about to find out how.
Unfortunately, there are still people who believe the lies told back then. I know one myself, he's in his 70's and was fed the party line by a policeman who lived near him. We can't do anything about them, it's too ingrained by now; best for your blood pressure to shrug your shoulders and walk away.
Hopefully the new inquest will bring the answers the families need.

[Jimbo]

I was at the Villa, West Ham game. I was about 8 rows from the back of the stand and was leaning on the barrier above a stairway. I got crushed there!

That sounds like exactly where I was standing. I remember watching as our fans spilled over the advertising hoardings and onto the pitch, even over the white line, on the actual playing surface. As I recall, they briefly stopped the game while the ref and some police shooed the fans back behind the line, where they stood to watch the game. It looked like they were standing on the line for a while. There was a very moody atmosphere that night too. If there had been fences there I dread to think what would have happened.

[Lee]

I was at the Villa, West Ham game. I was about 8 rows from the back of the stand and was leaning on the barrier above a stairway. I got crushed there!

That sounds like exactly where I was standing. I remember watching as our fans spilled over the advertising hoardings and onto the pitch, even over the white line, on the actual playing surface. As I recall, they briefly stopped the game while the ref and some police shooed the fans back behind the line, where they stood to watch the game. It looked like they were standing on the line for a while. There was a very moody atmosphere that night too. If there had been fences there I dread to think what would have happened.

Had a few times at away games, especially in the late 80's where you sincerely worried about your own personal safety. That West Ham was one of them.

[SoccerHQ]

I was 9 days away from being born......

sorry.