25 years today

[Leicester_Villian]

I guess my comments will not go down well but it seems that some points are simply forgotten in all this .........

Why did numerous Liverpool fans attempt to gain access without tickets?
Why did these Liverpool fans arrive at the ground so late to kick off?
Were many of these fans not drinking heavily just before kick off?

I am sorry but these Liverpool fans have to take blame for what happened 25 years ago

Many errors took place on the day and yes I am sure not all the truth has been told BUT if people without tickets had not attempted to gain access and people had arrived in a sober condition earlier would the events still have happened ?

I am sure the 96 were innocent parties as they were people in the ground with tickets and its sad what happened

However Liverpool are not the innocent parties that they wish us to believe

Sorry for taking very much the opposite view

[taylorsworkrate]

I guess my comments will not go down well but it seems that some points are simply forgotten in all this .........

Why did numerous Liverpool fans attempt to gain access without tickets?
Why did these Liverpool fans arrive at the ground so late to kick off?
Were many of these fans not drinking heavily just before kick off?

I am sorry but these Liverpool fans have to take blame for what happened 25 years ago

Many errors took place on the day and yes I am sure not all the truth has been told BUT if people without tickets had not attempted to gain access and people had arrived in a sober condition earlier would the events still have happened ?

I am sure the 96 were innocent parties as they were people in the ground with tickets and its sad what happened

However Liverpool are not the innocent parties that they wish us to believe

Sorry for taking very much the opposite view

Apology not accepted.

I cannot believe that even after the independent panels findings, some still believe the myths and smears peddled by the media and the police of the time.

Even the most cursory research would show anyone that the number of ticketless, late and drunk fans showing up was completely negligible and not a factor.

[dave.woodhall]

I guess my comments will not go down well but it seems that some points are simply forgotten in all this .........

Why did numerous Liverpool fans attempt to gain access without tickets?
Why did these Liverpool fans arrive at the ground so late to kick off?
Were many of these fans not drinking heavily just before kick off?

I am sorry but these Liverpool fans have to take blame for what happened 25 years ago

Many errors took place on the day and yes I am sure not all the truth has been told BUT if people without tickets had not attempted to gain access and people had arrived in a sober condition earlier would the events still have happened ?

I am sure the 96 were innocent parties as they were people in the ground with tickets and its sad what happened

However Liverpool are not the innocent parties that they wish us to believe

Sorry for taking very much the opposite view

Have you read the piece in the first post or do you only read the Sun?

[Olneythelonely]

People arrived late because there were a couple of accidents on the motorway.

People were drinking because it was a football match, people do.

People always turn up at events without tickets. People were being crushed outside the turnstiles. The gates were opened on the instructions of the man in charge. Have you been to Hillsborough?

I'm all for people having opinions, but I do expect them to have done at least the most basic of research, before I lend their opinions any weight.

[CT]

Had a long Motorway journey today with my (nearly) 9 yr old and he asked me what was the Hillsborough tradgedy as it was being mentioned so often on 5 Live.

I explained what happened on the day but also the shameful response of what happened afterwards. He couldn't even comprehend a world where football supporters were treated like scum, week in and week out.

I also told him about me being at West Ham (as others have mentioned earlier) and what happened that night. I'm sure it's not lost to all of us there how serious that could have been but for the fenceless ground.

I was at Preston North End on 15/4/89 - their fans first reaction was much the same as "Leicester" - It's all their fault, they always spoil it for everyone, typical pissed-up Liverpool fans.

Those families deserve endless credit for what they've done - shame on the top brass of the SYP and shame on The Sun. I even remember going to Hillsborough with Villa (just in the Upper Tier that was open) and seeing the Police manhandling our fans trying to drop a rose onto the Lower Tier.

It will be way too late, but I hope justice is eventually served.

[tomd2103]

I guess my comments will not go down well but it seems that some points are simply forgotten in all this .........

Why did numerous Liverpool fans attempt to gain access without tickets?
Why did these Liverpool fans arrive at the ground so late to kick off?
Were many of these fans not drinking heavily just before kick off?

I am sorry but these Liverpool fans have to take blame for what happened 25 years ago

Many errors took place on the day and yes I am sure not all the truth has been told BUT if people without tickets had not attempted to gain access and people had arrived in a sober condition earlier would the events still have happened ?

I am sure the 96 were innocent parties as they were people in the ground with tickets and its sad what happened

However Liverpool are not the innocent parties that they wish us to believe

Sorry for taking very much the opposite view

Points 1 & 3 - Those were hardly exceptional circumstances for big games back then (remember similar things happening with us at Swindon the year before).

Point 2 - Long delays due to roadworks on the M62 was the reason for many Liverpool fans being late.     

[Richard E]

The Health and Safety Executive did an exhaustive count and found if anything that the stand was under occupied. It was just that the crowd was not distributed between the pens safely. There is literally no evidence whatever that there were loads of ticketless fans.

People largely weren't late. They were there within the time specified on the tickets. There weren't enough turnstiles for the flow of people. To the extent there was lateness it was because of traffic.

Both the Taylor Report and the Independent Panel found no evidence of drink over and above what is normal on a social occasion. It isn't illegal to have a pint on your day off before a big match.

Please do some basic reading on the subject before passing comment on it. The Liverpool fans were not responsible for their own or their fellow supporters' deaths in any way. Don't forget many of the dead were people who entered the ground when Gate C was opened, so the suggestion the guilty latecomers squashed the innocents at the front is a total myth.

[garyfouroaks]

The problem was not so much the opening of the gates as not shutting off access to the tunnel leading to pens 3 and 4. If they had done that then the people coming through gate C would have been redirected to the pens on either side, where there was plenty of room.

Certainly it was possible to close the entrance to the central pens, but gates had been opened before at other grounds without that precaution. Radio communication was erratic, the crush was escalating, a Judgement of Solomon awaited, do you risk death or serious injury in the crush outside, or hope that everything would sort itself out, as it had before, by opening the gates? Stewarding was primeval, the Police were focussed on crowd control, not crowd safety.

There was the option for fans to access the wing pens, some did, but many chose the central entrance and to push their way in, and in doing so crushed their fellow fans to death. Normally there was sufficient spare space for fans to spill sideways at games, this time there was not. I don’t blame those fans, that was what you did in those days.

[darren woolley]

RIP Justice for the 96.

[Richard E]

The problem was not so much the opening of the gates as not shutting off access to the tunnel leading to pens 3 and 4. If they had done that then the people coming through gate C would have been redirected to the pens on either side, where there was plenty of room.

Certainly it was possible to close the entrance to the central pens, but gates had been opened before at other grounds without that precaution. Radio communication was erratic, the crush was escalating, a Judgement of Solomon awaited, do you risk death or serious injury in the crush outside, or hope that everything would sort itself out, as it had before, by opening the gates? Stewarding was primeval, the Police were focussed on crowd control, not crowd safety.

There was the option for fans to access the wing pens, some did, but many chose the central entrance and to push their way in, and in doing so crushed their fellow fans to death. Normally there was sufficient spare space for fans to spill sideways at games, this time there was not. I don’t blame those fans, that was what you did in those days.

Fair enough, but the entrance to the tunnel had been shut off in previous years when it was full, and people largely went down the tunnel rather than to the sides because the signage was so crap it wasn't at all clear that you had any option but to enter the terrace up the tunnel. And it's harsh to blame people for pushing when they have no reason to know there is a deadly crush developing at the other end of a dark, upward sloping tunnel.

[Leicester_Villian]

Seems we all seem to believe Liverpool fans were innocent then ...........

Guess they were also innocent at another game when many were killed ............ where is the justice for those guys? Or have the media misled us again?

The biggest tragedy in my eyes in football stadiums in the past 25 years was Bradford and that just almost passes without a mention ........

I am not anti Liverpool but the coverage in my eyes is simply OTT

[PeterWithesShin]

There was no cover up at Heysel or Bradford.

[garyfouroaks]

I guess my comments will not go down well but it seems that some points are simply forgotten in all this .........

Why did numerous Liverpool fans attempt to gain access without tickets?
Why did these Liverpool fans arrive at the ground so late to kick off?
Were many of these fans not drinking heavily just before kick off?

I am sorry but these Liverpool fans have to take blame for what happened 25 years ago

Many errors took place on the day and yes I am sure not all the truth has been told BUT if people without tickets had not attempted to gain access and people had arrived in a sober condition earlier would the events still have happened ?

I am sure the 96 were innocent parties as they were people in the ground with tickets and its sad what happened

However Liverpool are not the innocent parties that they wish us to believe

Sorry for taking very much the opposite view

Arriving ticketless at big games was common in those days, with gate storms not uncommon. BUT, the enquiry did not find that ticketless fans caused the gates to be opened, or that there were a large number intent on forcing the gates ( although that had happened elsewhere).

Arriving late for kick offs at Hillsborough was an occupational hazard with the traffic for semi finals. Some may have delayed to mob up, but if they did, it wasn't a factor here according to the Enquiry. Furthermore the Leppings lane entrances were notoriously inadequate.

English fans drink before games, some are drunk on arrival, but there was no evidence that drunken fans caused the disaster.

I am sure the Police officers who policed the Leppings Lane end that day are haunted by their decisions and indecisions, as are those Liverpool fans who crushed their own.Neither acted willfully.

[balloubaby]

The images that haunted me were those taken from the far stand that showed Leppings Lane from about half two till after kick off. They were taken ever 5 minutes and the picture just after kick-off was horrendous. It was inconceivable to see so many fans in that small space and the few that we're attempting to climb out. I remember reading the book mentioned earlier that had accounts from survivors. All left me sobbing, particularly one from a young man who recalled a girl crushed against him and the frantic kicking of her feet against his seeking help. Sadly help didn't come quick enough and the kicks faded away. The man barely alive himself later looked down to see the life crushed out of her.

I am sorry that some still see it fit to question or apportion some blame at fellow supporters. Justice indeed and not before time. X

[Richard E]

Seems we all seem to believe Liverpool fans were innocent then ...........

Guess they were also innocent at another game when many were killed ............ where is the justice for those guys? Or have the media misled us again?

The biggest tragedy in my eyes in football stadiums in the past 25 years was Bradford and that just almost passes without a mention ........

I am not anti Liverpool but the coverage in my eyes is simply OTT

There was justice for Heysel. People went to prison for it. No-one has ever been held accountable for Hillsborough.

Nearly twice as many people died at Hillsborough than died at Bradford, and it is more recent, so it's hardly surprising it attracts more attention.

I don't understand why people bring Heysel into this discussion at all, unless they are implying in some way that Hillsborough was karma for it. They were two totally different incidents with different causes.