How would you feel....

[gpbarr]

I think Lambert should stay. Here's why;

1. The squad we have today is IMO both better, younger, hungrier, and most importantly, isn't draining money out of the club in wages, as the one he inherited in June 2012. Does anyone really believe that in defense, Hutton, Cuellar, Dunne, Collins, and Warnock are better than Vlaar, Okore, and Lowton. Or in attack that Bent, Keane, Heskey, and Delfuenso are better than Benteke and Kozak. Midfield isn't so clear cut (Stan has been a big blow) but even there - are Ireland, Bannan, Jenas, and Makoun better than Westwood, Sylla, Bacuna, KEA, or Tonev. Some of the 'new blood' are not playing well  and have yet to find their feet, but I'll take their youth, mistakes, and honesty over the shower of shit that never gave a toss about the club and were quite content to largely play out their contracts. IMO given the money available and the wage bill having to be bought under control (neither of which he is responsible for), he's done a good job in the transfer market and for the future of the club.

2. He has track record. How many managers with track record do you think will welcome the chance to manage this club if Lerner swings the axe - the big names wont take the job (money not there), so what we will end up with is just 'another Lambert' (up and coming but yet to prove it on the big stage) which carries all the same risks we had originally (more squad changes, rebuilding, another upheaval, etc with absolutely no guarantees of anything better). On another site this week, a supposed Villa fan was arguing vehemently that any of Pulis, Matteo, Clark, or Holloway would be a good choice to replace 'that fu$&W$t Lambert'!!!! I kid you not - I seriously thought he was taking the piss but evidently he wasn't. He genuinely thought we would be better off with any of that lot than Lambert. God help us! Its all well and good to state that this isn't a good reason not to sack the guy - I agree - but equally, if we do, who, seriously, would both be interested, available, and an upgrade on what we have? Its also interesting to see the condemnation of WBA, Cardiff, Fulham etc for sacking guys mid-season, yet when it comes to us, different story.

3. And finally, in my view Lerner, Faulkner, and Lambert as a trio have restored something special to this club - integrity, honesty, hard work, and a far more sustainable, viable business for the future - which don't guarantee success on the field but I'd rather that, admired by other fans up and down the country by the way, than the complete utter shambles the club was in when they arrived.

4. Results - not week on week but over time. Fact is, we are better off this season than we were in either the two preceeding seasons. Lambert was clear from the get go that this was never going to be easy, never going to be an 18 month fix, and it would take time. I agree with him - and the fact with all the problems that still exist, we are better off positionally (albeit marginally) speaks volumes.

People are complaining about the 'quality' of the football - I agree its dire and as bad as I can remember right now - but that alone ought not be the reason the chop arrives. Surely one has to take stock and look at the overall picture. Progress comes in many forms, some obvious and some not obvious. In my humble view, while I hold my head in my hands some weekends watching us falter so badly, I always wake up Monday and am able to accept that we are in a long transition, that we don't have pots of money, that we have a manager and a squad who finally, appear honest, hard working, and up for the fight (as we saw last year and as we will see again this year).

I think the man is doing a good job under tough circumstances, deserves better support, and will come through with Lerner's support (which I think he has). 

[brian green]

Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa.   All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model.   In my book that does not equate with Villa being better.   What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?

[Dante Lavelli]

Great post gpbarr.

In a nutshell we're about where we were with Houlier and Mcleish but with a much younger team and built on more sustainable foundations.  Ultimately - here comes the optimism - we're ready to grow again both through the current players being young enough to improve and the bank balance healthy enough for us to go into our overdraft again.

[Dante Lavelli]

Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa.   All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model.   In my book that does not equate with Villa being better.   What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?

Wasn't there a quote from Lambert about 6 months after he joined where he said something along the lines of "it needed to be broken in order for it to be fixed properly"?  I'm hoping that our current existence is partially about breaking it (e.g. resolutely getting rid of under achieving high earners and filling the squad with young/cheap/obedient players) so the club/Randy can be more ambitious again.

If this ambition does not materialise in the near future (although not necessarily the next transfer window) then I'll agree, but - to me - we're only part way through the process and hopefully the next stage will be the period where the team and club can grow again.

[Hoppo]

I just don't get our style of play. That's my problem.
If all of our teams from youth upwards played the same way I would buy into 'the project' but we have no real way of playing.

[KevinGage]

Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa.   All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model.   In my book that does not equate with Villa being better.   What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?

Absolutely spot on.

Ellis got panned for lack of ambition.  In short, the pride he felt at Aston Villa -one of the biggest clubs in the richest league in the world- being solvent. I guess if you set small enough goals, they are attainable.

Apart from the late 60's (and early 80's after the North Stand fiasco) there wasn't an excuse for that type of miserly approach on his watch, and there isn't now -with record TV deals and revenue for all topflight clubs.

That's not carte blanche to run the thing recklessly either.  We've seen a number of clubs drop out of the topflight and struggle, having crippling debts and wage bills as they plummet down the divisions.

But when letters from the Chief Exec are circulated to season ticket holders about the 'goal' of remaining in the Deloitte top 20 (not achieved), something is amiss.  Matters on the pitch should always be the main priority for any football club, if that isn't stating the fucking obvious.

[gpbarr]

Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa.   All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model.   In my book that does not equate with Villa being better.   What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?

Brian - I agree that they have not forged a "new and improved Aston Villa" but thats not what I said they had done. I believe they have restored integrity, honesty, hard work, and a far more sustainable, viable business for the future, that ultimately (and here is the rub) will lead to a "new and improved Aston Villa". I also respect your point about business over glory, but it is simply the way of the new world. I often ask myself if I'd want to be a Man City fan right now - all glory but little integrity, full of prima donna's, no respect for the traditions of the football club, etc.  Lerner has done enough in his time here to warrant genuine respect and admiration - the charity giving, the debt write off, rebuilding some historic aspects of the ground, etc.

But I hear you. And so I would say that if the fans don't like what they are seeing and don't see progress as I do, then they should be ensuring they ask for Lerner, Faulkner, and Lambert to go because as you said, they are taking this project on together, success or otherwise. Just getting rid of the manager won't solve the underlying malaise you claim to believe is taking place.

[mike]

I used to buy a turkey from my butcher for Christmas and get some local veg from the farmers market then cook it all using recipes from my favourite tv chefs. Last year I decided to save money and buy a turkey style roast from Iceland and some frozen veg. In order to save time on Christmas Day, I just chucked it in the oven and took it out a bit early. My guests pulled a face because it didn't taste very nice then spent a week puking and shitting.

This year, I've decided to do the same.

[Dante Lavelli]

I used to buy a turkey from my butcher for Christmas and get some local veg from the farmers market then cook it all using recipes from my favourite tv chefs. Last year I decided to save money and buy a turkey style roast from Iceland and some frozen veg. In order to save time on Christmas Day, I just chucked it in the oven and took it out a bit early. My guests pulled a face because it didn't taste very nice then spent a week puking and shitting.

This year, I've decided to do the same.

Nice analogy Mike.  What you should have done is planted your own veggies in that new allotment you bought.  It'll take a while but everyone says home grown tastes better.  Besides the relatives which come and visit each year are only prepared to bring the cheapest plonk with them... etc etc.

[LTA]

Its my opinion that our decline started the moment MON handed over his team sheet in Moscow minus eight first teamers.

At the time, there was a strong chance that we could get that Champions League spot, with Arsenal and Liverpool vulnerable, Spurs only just appointing Redknapp, and Man City yet to flex their financial muscles.  It was a golden chance, but ducking out of Europe in such a limp fashion demotivated the squad, and drove a wedge between manager and fans which was never healed.  Yes we were sixth again the following season and had the two Wembley trips, but for me it papered over the cracks - the football we saw that season - with a few exceptions - was not great to watch really (the home matches with West Ham and Wolves were diabolical).

After that last game of the season against Blackburn, I expected it to be announced that MON was going to leave, leaving us in a position to spend the Summer searching for a replacement who could build on what he'd done.  Instead, he bailed out on us at almost the eleventh hour, so we had to rush in an appointment.

We ended up with Houllier, who was never the right fit for the job.  We wanted to begin driving the wages down, but were forced the abondon this by signing Bent to try and keep us up.

We then appointed TSM, who had no chance to doing anything here - mainly because of his management style and where he was coming from.  Neither Houllier or TSM were ever long-term options for us like PL could be, but even when Lambert arrived, he said it was never going to be a quick fix and most of us knew that.  You can't turn around a three year decline in the space of a few months without serious money being invested - something we just don't have now.

Not one person can be blamed for all of this, as its a combination of poor decisions by the board and the last three managers.  At the moment, I'm still in the Lambert in camp, but the jury is still very much out on whether he is the right man to take us forward again.  We've learned over the last few seasons that simply changing the manager isn't enough - especially when the replacement has a totally different style of playing to that of the guy who has moved on.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think Lambert should stay. Here's why;

1. The squad we have today is IMO both better, younger, hungrier, and most importantly, isn't draining money out of the club in wages, as the one he inherited in June 2012.

I think he should stay, too, but really, if that's the first line of the first reason, you've got to wonder how much our priorities have changed.

I don't want to clap my hands and shout because we've got a team of eager, young players who don't cost much. I want a squad of good players. Ideally they'll not cost too much.

I also am not a fan of the money-sapping wages MON saddled us with, but I don't think there's a single shred of evidence that this current squad is anywhere near better than any squad MON had - and I am including the 2006-7 one he inherited and couldn't really add to very much. That had a spine of a team already, including the likes of Gabby, Barry, Angel, Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma - decent players.

You'd have to be on some sort of mind-bending narcotics to really think that the current squad is collectively anywhere near as good as that handful of players alone, let alone their squad mates.

I don't mean this to sound like having a pop at you, because I am not, but if I wanted to cheer fiscal prudence and financial performance, I'd start watching share prices every Saturday afternoon instead.

I say all this as a Lambert supporter, but I genuinely can not believe the level of delusion amongst some of our fans re our current squad. It's a squad of players who'd - with two or three exceptions at most - would be of interest to almost nobody else in the PL. Massively mediocre stuff, lots of players with a huge amount to prove.

I hope they do and will continue to give them a chance, but I genuinely couldn't give a toss if they're young and hungry, I want them to be good.

[dave.woodhall]

I used to buy a turkey from my butcher for Christmas and get some local veg from the farmers market then cook it all using recipes from my favourite tv chefs. Last year I decided to save money and buy a turkey style roast from Iceland and some frozen veg. In order to save time on Christmas Day, I just chucked it in the oven and took it out a bit early. My guests pulled a face because it didn't taste very nice then spent a week puking and shitting.

This year, I've decided to do the same.

And your point is?

[old man villa fan]

I think we have an owner that will contribute some funding each year, although not a great deal.  The reality, therefore, is to combine this with TV money and other commercial income and that is all we have to work with.  I do believe that the club are working very hard to increase the commercial income and trying to promote the name of the club around the world e.g. I caught a little bit of a club produced weekly program me on Eurosport Asia.  This all takes time unless you are winning trophies.

It will help when we have cleared the decks of non-playing high earners so that this money can be spent raising the quality of the squad.  In the meantime we have to struggle on the best we can by whatever means possible.  Clearly, there are a number of the young players that are struggling for form, partly due to the whole team struggling, which is partly down to loss of key players to injury.  I firmly believe that the club have to bring some experienced players in in January.  As we do not want to spend a great deal of money on a short term quick fix, we should use the loan system.  Investing GBP 5 million  in loan salaries will buy us far more now and for the future than spending on buying players.

Earlier somebody said that it all started going wrong in Moscow. I would say it all started going wrong when we signed Heskey.  He did not fit in with the way we played and we changed to accommodate him. Managers used to like him because of his work rate but we could not afford to have a center forward that did not score goals due to lack of goals from midfield.  We are in a similar position now in that we rely on the front three for goals.  AW and GA without goals are a luxury we cannot afford, however much we like them as players.  Similarly with somebody like Albrighton, it is of no use him looking busy, running down the wing and crossing if he is not looking where his players are before he crosses.

I am all for steadying the ship until we can sail on full steam ahead.  What we cannot afford is to ruin the good work to date by changing direction completely.  However, I would not say no to a money-no-object Arab turning up at B6.

[gpbarr]

I think Lambert should stay. Here's why;

1. The squad we have today is IMO both better, younger, hungrier, and most importantly, isn't draining money out of the club in wages, as the one he inherited in June 2012.

I think he should stay, too, but really, if that's the first line of the first reason, you've got to wonder how much our priorities have changed.

I don't want to clap my hands and shout because we've got a team of eager, young players who don't cost much. I want a squad of good players. Ideally they'll not cost too much.

I also am not a fan of the money-sapping wages MON saddled us with, but I don't think there's a single shred of evidence that this current squad is anywhere near better than any squad MON had - and I am including the 2006-7 one he inherited and couldn't really add to very much. That had a spine of a team already, including the likes of Gabby, Barry, Angel, Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma - decent players.

You'd have to be on some sort of mind-bending narcotics to really think that the current squad is collectively anywhere near as good as that handful of players alone, let alone their squad mates.

I don't mean this to sound like having a pop at you, because I am not, but if I wanted to cheer fiscal prudence and financial performance, I'd start watching share prices every Saturday afternoon instead.

I say all this as a Lambert supporter, but I genuinely can not believe the level of delusion amongst some of our fans re our current squad. It's a squad of players who'd - with two or three exceptions at most - would be of interest to almost nobody else in the PL. Massively mediocre stuff, lots of players with a huge amount to prove.

I hope they do and will continue to give them a chance, but I genuinely couldn't give a toss if they're young and hungry, I want them to be good.

To be clear I said the current squad is IMO better than the one he inherited in June 2012. I don't disagree the team you mentioned was better but that was not the resources Lambert was afforded when he took over. That squad (as McLeish exited) was worse than the squad Lambert has put together. If you disagree, go and look at the Opta stats.

[eastie]

Its my opinion that our decline started the moment MON handed over his team sheet in Moscow minus eight first teamers.

At the time, there was a strong chance that we could get that Champions League spot, with Arsenal and Liverpool vulnerable, Spurs only just appointing Redknapp, and Man City yet to flex their financial muscles.  It was a golden chance, but ducking out of Europe in such a limp fashion demotivated the squad, and drove a wedge between manager and fans which was never healed.  Yes we were sixth again the following season and had the two Wembley trips, but for me it papered over the cracks - the football we saw that season - with a few exceptions - was not great to watch really (the home matches with West Ham and Wolves were diabolical).

After that last game of the season against Blackburn, I expected it to be announced that MON was going to leave, leaving us in a position to spend the Summer searching for a replacement who could build on what he'd done.  Instead, he bailed out on us at almost the eleventh hour, so we had to rush in an appointment.

We ended up with Houllier, who was never the right fit for the job.  We wanted to begin driving the wages down, but were forced the abondon this by signing Bent to try and keep us up.

We then appointed TSM, who had no chance to doing anything here - mainly because of his management style and where he was coming from.  Neither Houllier or TSM were ever long-term options for us like PL could be, but even when Lambert arrived, he said it was never going to be a quick fix and most of us knew that.  You can't turn around a three year decline in the space of a few months without serious money being invested - something we just don't have now.

Not one person can be blamed for all of this, as its a combination of poor decisions by the board and the last three managers.  At the moment, I'm still in the Lambert in camp, but the jury is still very much out on whether he is the right man to take us forward again.  We've learned over the last few seasons that simply changing the manager isn't enough - especially when the replacement has a totally different style of playing to that of the guy who has moved on.

What a bloody good post - merry christmas to all!