How would you feel....

[ciggiesnbeer]

Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.

This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.

Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.

He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.

That changeability is a kind of worry though. This kind of football has to be reinforced by constant practice, like any skill at its top level. Lambert's versatility is a weakness here - being so reactive often makes us look as though, when we have to be proactive and force the issue, we don't have a plan at all. It looks aimless.

Fair point.

Lambert is who he is though. He tinkered with the formation/style all the time at Norwich and with us. I think he just expects his players to be able to handle it. That kind of philosophy is more common in Serie A I think. I remember Mancini in particular expressing puzzlement why players in this league would find it odd he would change formation all the time, he just regarded it as normal.

[Matt Collins]

Very good point. Whereas this year we've hardly put together any passing moves that finish in goals. To name a few team goals from last year:

Benteke at Liverpool, benteke at Everton (second), Weimann second v Man U, Benteke v QPR, etc

What's our best team goal this season? What goal has involved three or four passes first?

I'm just clinging to the hope that we were a lot worse at this point last season and in the end we came good.

[Monty]

There's a difference between formation, strategy and just not practising passing. If you look at Swansea and now Liverpool, Rodgers' guru-like obsession with triangles - when one player gets the ball he has one option move left and one right ahead of him - works almost all the time, whether they play 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2, and whether they're breaking down a massed defence or counterattacking. Just small things like this make a huge difference, and we appear to do none of them.

[eastie]

There's a difference between formation, strategy and just not practising passing. If you look at Swansea and now Liverpool, Rodgers' guru-like obsession with triangles - when one player gets the ball he has one option move left and one right ahead of him - works almost all the time, whether they play 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2, and whether they're breaking down a massed defence or counterattacking. Just small things like this make a huge difference, and we appear to do none of them.

Yes , pass and move is drilled into players at a young age but our midfield is so static and with so little movement that I despair - for this reason I think Gardner needs to be given a go as neither Westwood , kea or sylla have delivered .

[Rigadon]

We are in for a relegation battle for the 3rd season straight.  It's not  that lambert is uninspiring more that he's unlucky that worries me most.  The injuries we get all seem to happen at the worst moment possible. 

[ciggiesnbeer]

Matt, that is true. Hmm one worrying thought as, I remember those goals I recall Ireland or Bannan involved...

Eastie&Montbert. I agree with that. I was shocked during the Stoke game to see Delph for example misplace passes repeatedly. Not the kind of thing he did last season.

[supertom]

We are in for a relegation battle for the 3rd season straight.  It's not  that lambert is uninspiring more that he's unlucky that worries me most.  The injuries we get all seem to happen at the worst moment possible. 

I'm not entirely sure injury runs are ever this bad without doing something in the training that contributes in some way. Houllier for example put on the double sessions then had a horrendous run of injuries in the middle of the season. I know people call O Neill to fault for the fitness of his sides. It wasn't really that they lacked in fitness, he just asked what was beyond of his first choice 11-14 players. But generally he was lucky with injuries.

I think there's something in our training regime, that needs looking at. The conditioning coach and physio might be directly contributing to such bad luck on that front. Who knows? I certainly feel in regards to Benteke, we've really done the boy no favours by rushing him back too.

[mike]

We are in for a relegation battle for the 3rd season

Yes and when they sacked McLeish they swore they would never let us be in that position again because Aston Villa aspire to more.

[Pat McMahon]

Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.

This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.

Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.

He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.

At West Ham last season for Lambert's first game I was distressed at how many people thought that sideways passing made us some sort of Arsenal tribute act. I honestly don't remember us troubling West Ham in that game.

[KevinGage]

Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.

This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.

Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.

He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.

At West Ham last season for Lambert's first game I was distressed at how many people thought that sideways passing made us some sort of Arsenal tribute act. I honestly don't remember us troubling West Ham in that game.

Bingo.

Slow, predictable passing in non threatening areas is every bit as dull and imaginative as the big hoof to up the other end of the pitch.

For that game it was at least a novelty to see us attempt to even make basic passes though, compared to the utter dirge of the McLeish era.

You don't go from that to Barcelona after one pre season. But Martinez at Wigan was able to transform Steve Bruce's dour outfit into something approximating a football side after just one summer. Virtually the same talent pool that Bruce had to pick from.

Passing with purpose is the key: passing at pace and in an attempt to force an opening.

[Monty]

It's good to be patient and pass the ball around the back and midfield for a bit, looking carefully for an opening. However, if that's all you do all game, there's probably something not quite right.

[TheSandman]

The thing that gets me is that a few good spells last season aside our poorness on the ball is nothing new. Under MoN, Houlier and McLeish we had the same problems. A lack of movement, misplaced passes and an unwillingness to press has been apparent throughout that period under four different managers and with using god knows how many different players. That's just inexplicable. Similarly we've taken consistently shit throw-ins for a long time too. All basic stuff we have been getting wrong for a long time.

How Lambert, the man who for me has got the closest to having us play entertaining football is now getting it so wrong is just plain baffling.

[Monty]

My suspicion is that he was so disturbed by the grisly sight of Villa's defending last year that he's spent almost all of his training about defence and counter. I feel that he's gone too far this way, and would rather he went with the madness more than with solidity.

[Isa]

The thing that gets me is that a few good spells last season aside our poorness on the ball is nothing new. Under MoN, Houlier and McLeish we had the same problems. A lack of movement, misplaced passes and an unwillingness to press has been apparent throughout that period under four different managers and with using god knows how many different players. That's just inexplicable. Similarly we've taken consistently shit throw-ins for a long time too. All basic stuff we have been getting wrong for a long time.

How Lambert, the man who for me has got the closest to having us play entertaining football is now getting it so wrong is just plain baffling.

I don't see how you can include Houllier in that list. You could clearly see his philosophy being slowly implemented and we played far better possession-based football under him then we have under Lambert.

[Mister E]

It's good to be patient and pass the ball around the back and midfield for a bit, looking carefully for an opening. However, if that's all you do all game, there's probably something not quite right.

There's definitely something not quite right when the get-out-of-jail pass is back to Baker, the worst 'footballer' on the side.

We lack someone (like Petrov) who is our 'out' player; someone for whom the ball is a friend rather than a primed grenade: I think Westie was supposed to be that player, but he has looked very much caught in the headlights this season. Delph, Bacuna and Gardner are all probably more reliable with the ball than our curent midfield but none have the calm, controlled dominance required yet.

Both Livermore and Huddlestone would have added some quality to our midfield but are instead plying their trade with Hull ...