Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: N'ZMAV on December 15, 2013, 03:14:56 PM
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if Lambert was sacked?
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I don't think he necessarily should be, but I wouldn't be bothered if he was. The performances over the last 6 weeks have regressed badly.
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Annoyed that we will have done exactly what we were slagging The Stripeyfilth off for doing yesterday when we are, in fact, in a better position than them.
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I don't want him to be, but it's hard not to look at his record and think that maybe he should be - or at least that it's the sort of record that gets managers sacked, in any case.
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I think I'd just like to ask him if he realises how poor we've been for a long while now?
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Not bothered
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I want him to stay, at the same time I won't be lighting a candle in his memory if he gets the bullet. I like a lot of what he is trying to do, but fuck me there are a number of issues he seems blind to sorting out.
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Not fussed in the slightest. No one can tell me Lamberts team have been anything other than underwhelming during all but 3 months of his reign. He's presided over some real turgid performances that are made even duller by the apparent lack of a plan.
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I don't see the point tbh.If everyone was fit/free fromm suspension, Okores, Vlaar and Delph would all be playing, and we would be a lot closer.
Westwood, KEA, Sylla, Luna, Gabby, Weimann, all need replacing.Not enough quality in the final 1/3rd, if he does'nt rrectify that situation, then that is the time to question PL.We are not going to finish higher than 10th, and hopefully not much lower.
3 new 1st teamers needed asap, lets see who he brings in.
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probably the only way to add some interest to the place. Childish I know.
Very bored with what I have seen this year
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Absolutely delighted.
Presided over our worst defeat in years. We can't score. We can't defend. Set pieces are awful. There's no plan b. Six goals at home so far. Awful home form.
Tactically inept. Poor inexperienced signings. Admittedly benteke was a decent signing. (Or was he a one season wonder)
Need I go on.
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My issue is that last season he came in and had to overhaul the squad and I understood that'd be difficult, but in spite of our struggles we played attacking football, scored goals and tried to win games. He's now filled the squad with his players, Vlaar improved so our defensive record improved and it enabled us to get a few results. However we've been playing terribly and giving away possession, offering hardly anything in attack. We have regressed, and Lambert doesn't seem to have a clue how to change it.
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I want him to stay, at the same time I won't be lighting a candle in his memory if he gets the bullet. I like a lot of what he is trying to do, but fuck me there are a number of issues he seems blind to sorting out.
Can someone tell me what is meant every time someone says they 'like what he is trying to do'? As far as I can tell he isn't trying to do anything. Buying a load of shit players from abroad and lower leagues and turning us into the worst footballing team in the league and most appalling Villa side I have witnessed, isn't really doing anything at all.
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I'm in no way defending some of the performances this season as some of the play is about as bad as it gets but I would be disappointed if he got the bullet. In my view you don't get anywhere long term sacking managers after a bad run. If we want to achieve anything in the next few years we need to stick by a manager. Football is full of clubs that sack managers as soon as things start going slightly sour and all they do is end up never having a settled team, spunking a load of cash everytime they make a change and then repeating the process 2 seasons later.
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I don't think he should go yet because it's a bad time to sack him because a new man would need a whole summer to really sort us out. Where-as in West Broms case, at least they have a few experienced players who've been there and done it to help the new man settle in.
But if he did get the boot I wouldn't be too bothered. I don't buy into his plan. In theory there's things that could work well. In practice I don't think he's a good enough manager to pull off something even Fergie would find a tough ask. It's not like he's had no money at all either.
For me, scraping by on 40 odd points again, having played poorly, should result in the sack come May. He's got January to essentially save his job and show us there's some progression on the football pitch.
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In my view you don't get anywhere long term sacking managers after a bad run. If we want to achieve anything in the next few years we need to stick by a manager.
I disagree with this. If we want to achieve things we have to stick by the right manager. Otherwise we might as well have kept TSM. I haven't seen or heard anything to convince me that Lambert is the right manager. All I hear is that there's no-one better available and that they wouldn't come, neither of which says much about the level of faith in Lambert.
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I'm in no way defending some of the performances this season as some of the play is about as bad as it gets but I would be disappointed if he got the bullet. In my view you don't get anywhere long term sacking managers after a bad run. If we want to achieve anything in the next few years we need to stick by a manager. Football is full of clubs that sack managers as soon as things start going slightly sour and all they do is end up never having a settled team, spunking a load of cash everytime they make a change and then repeating the process 2 seasons later.
This is the unfortunate reality of Premiership football. In my view, long term, Lambert isn't good enough by himself. He needs an experienced right hand man, or D.O.F to help him along until he's good enough.
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I'd like to hear the reasons for keeping Lambert first, just for balance and i mean football reasons like what it is exactly he brings to Villa rather than the usual we can't keep changing managers line that gets trotted out time and again.
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I'd like to hear the reasons for keeping Lambert first, just for balance and i mean football reasons like what it is exactly he brings to Villa rather than the usual we can't keep changing managers line that gets trotted out time and again.
Spot on. I asked exactly this on the match thread and Dave Cooper quite rightly pointed out it was a discussion for a different thread. Well, here we are. Let's hear it.
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I'd be very disappointed if we sacked the manager because we desperately need continuity and stability at Villa Park. If, by season's end, we have finished comfortably mid-table I will view that as good progress and a base upon which to build again. Having said that, I can't hide behind my disappointment in the past couple of performances - we have been wretched. We're in poor form and need to lift ourselves out of it.
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In my view you don't get anywhere long term sacking managers after a bad run. If we want to achieve anything in the next few years we need to stick by a manager.
I disagree with this. If we want to achieve things we have to stick by the right manager. Otherwise we might as well have kept TSM. I haven't seen or heard anything to convince me that Lambert is the right manager. All I hear is that there's no-one better available and that they wouldn't come, neither of which says much about the level of faith in Lambert.
If we showed a bit of ambition we could tempt a decent foreign coach. If they come for the money, so be it. But there-in lies the problem. I think Randy wants a budget side with a budget manager. I actually think old Wax face could do a good job here. He inherits a young, hard working side, which suits him. Despite the friction between him and the Villa fans, if you flash some cash in front of him and his dog, he'll come. Not that I'd be a big fan of him coming, on account of him being a twonk, but for me, he would improve us. He's steadied the ship at QPR now and weeded out most of the mercs he inherited.
Maybe an appointment in the Houllier vein would be the next logical step. Someone experienced to come in for a year or two, build something to put in place for a good young manager, with a forward thinking mentality.
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I'd like to hear the reasons for keeping Lambert first, just for balance and i mean football reasons like what it is exactly he brings to Villa rather than the usual we can't keep changing managers line that gets trotted out time and again.
I can't think of any genuine reason to keep him.
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It's a paradox: I want continuity, but I wouldn't be at all bothered if Lambert went.
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I'd like to hear the reasons for keeping Lambert first, just for balance and i mean football reasons like what it is exactly he brings to Villa rather than the usual we can't keep changing managers line that gets trotted out time and again.
Last year we had a very particular set of circumstances which got him more credit when he started the job, and although we were utterly awful for long periods, people cut him some slack, because they understood that he was trying to get us to play football again.
The way he'd get us to chase and harry the opposition when we didn't have possession, and turn that into counter attacks was impressive, and almost like a poorly executed version of the way Dortmund play.
That was certainly my take on it.
This year, we seem to be qualitatively worse than the same time last year. Not only that, but we also appear to have stopped trying to play football. Our only real tactic in matches is to sit back and lump it long. That is truly abysmal to watch.
His big mistake was to go out in the summer and spend all that money on players of largely the same level to what we already had. I don't really know why, for example, we bought Bowery (last season), Helenius and Kozak, for example, rather than use the transfer fee and wages freed up to improve the high quality points of the squad - ie go out and buy one player from a level above what we have now.
Not a single one of his signings in the summer looked that way.
I also appreciate the injuries, but it's not as if we're the only team that has them. We lost Okore which was unfortunate, but I'd personally like to see more evidence of what he can do than that CL performance against Chelsea last year before I start to curse his absence as the major influencing factor.
Lambert needs to sort it out, and quickly. That also means he's going to have to buy in January, and it needs to be someone appreciably better than what we have now, not yet another punt on some cheap, unproven player, because we have a squad full of those.
If - if - we move closer to the relegation spots over the next few weeks, then he's going to need support again if he wants to keep people on board, and it's hard to see him getting as much as he did last season given the abysmal, Stoke-esque style of play we appear to have taken on this term.
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It's like I've said previously, Villa are like the England cricket team. We've been limping along for a while playing poorly but still getting results, unfortunately sooner or later you don't get those results and you're left with very little. People ignore a lot of issues when you're winning, because they can rationalised away. However once you start losing, then those issues become very apparent. Villa have issues all over the field, one defender away from defensive catastrophe, midfield that doesn't influence or control, attack that produces nothing.
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Continuity is meaningless, and quite possibly counter-productive, if the man in possession of the job isn't the right man.
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I think he is out of his depth and its time to make the change
People seem to think that with a bit more time suddenly things will click and all will be well.
I just don't see that as a reality
We are a poor footballing team that has dished up some turgid stuff
He should have got the bullet after last December
PL is just not upto managing a club the size of and with the expectation of Aston Villa
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Relieved.
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A lot of people (mainly fans of other local teams, admittedly) have repeatedly told me they don't rate Lambert as a manager. From the outside looking in, I think they've probably got a point.
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I'd like to hear the reasons for keeping Lambert first, just for balance and i mean football reasons like what it is exactly he brings to Villa rather than the usual we can't keep changing managers line that gets trotted out time and again.
Last year we had a very particular set of circumstances which got him more credit when he started the job, and although we were utterly awful for long periods, people cut him some slack, because they understood that he was trying to get us to play football again.
The way he'd get us to chase and harry the opposition when we didn't have possession, and turn that into counter attacks was impressive, and almost like a poorly executed version of the way Dortmund play.
That was certainly my take on it.
This year, we seem to be qualitatively worse than the same time last year. Not only that, but we also appear to have stopped trying to play football. Our only real tactic in matches is to sit back and lump it long. That is truly abysmal to watch.
His big mistake was to go out in the summer and spend all that money on players of largely the same level to what we already had. I don't really know why, for example, we bought Bowery (last season), Helenius and Kozak, for example, rather than use the transfer fee and wages freed up to improve the high quality points of the squad - ie go out and buy one player from a level above what we have now.
Not a single one of his signings in the summer looked that way.
I also appreciate the injuries, but it's not as if we're the only team that has them. We lost Okore which was unfortunate, but I'd personally like to see more evidence of what he can do than that CL performance against Chelsea last year before I start to curse his absence as the major influencing factor.
Lambert needs to sort it out, and quickly. That also means he's going to have to buy in January, and it needs to be someone appreciably better than what we have now, not yet another punt on some cheap, unproven player, because we have a squad full of those.
If - if - we move closer to the relegation spots over the next few weeks, then he's going to need support again if he wants to keep people on board, and it's hard to see him getting as much as he did last season given the abysmal, Stoke-esque style of play we appear to have taken on this term.
I think that's it, all we seem to be doing is filling up the squad with players who aren't good enough. We need a player in every area of the pitch who costs more and is of better quality.
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I'm in no way defending some of the performances this season as some of the play is about as bad as it gets but I would be disappointed if he got the bullet. In my view you don't get anywhere long term sacking managers after a bad run.
You don't get anywhere employing bad managers. There is nothing he is doing that suggests to me otherwise. There is no plan. We don't really play a certain style of football, we defend with our backs to the wall, that is it, so I cannot see what he is working towards. What is his brand? What are we working towards?
I don't think he even knows his best formation.
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It's like I've said previously, Villa are like the England cricket team. We've been limping along for a while playing poorly but still getting results, unfortunately sooner or later you don't get those results and you're left with very little. People ignore a lot of issues when you're winning, because they can rationalised away. However once you start losing, then those issues become very apparent. Villa have issues all over the field, one defender away from defensive catastrophe, midfield that doesn't influence or control, attack that produces nothing.
The other problem is that some of the teams around us are improving slightly. I don't think we'll have any trouble from the bottom 3 again, even though Palace look a lot better under Pulis, but would finishing 15th-16th be acceptable? My worry is that it would be for the board.
I'd say today we put out quite comfortably the worst midfield in the top flight. I'd have even welcomed wee Barry Bannan back today.
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I'd like to hear the reasons for keeping Lambert first, just for balance and i mean football reasons like what it is exactly he brings to Villa rather than the usual we can't keep changing managers line that gets trotted out time and again.
Yes, that would be nice to hear/read.
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Continuity is meaningless, and quite possibly counter-productive, if the man in possession of the job isn't the right man.
Very good point!!
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If I'm honest it would probably give me a lift right now. The feeling that it might signal a different approach.
I respect a lot of people on here who are more patient than I am and they are right in many ways, you have to stick at things. Chopping and changing is not the right approach.
But I'm starting to worry that Lambert is getting it wrong more often than he's getting it right of late, that maybe things won't get any better (Up til now I've always felt things would improve if we just got our heads down). That maybe he's not capable of turning us into the progressive team that I think we all want to see.
But is it the time. You would think he'd have until at least the end of the season but any new manager could use January to improve the squad. I think for sure Randy will back Lambert at least until May.
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Times up I'm afraid! Abysmal football which is nearly as bad as TSM. Get rid now so the new man can start to make changes in January. Probably get slated for saying this, but have been saying for ages that Hoddle would be my choice.
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Continuity is meaningless, and quite possibly counter-productive, if the man in possession of the job isn't the right man.
Very good point!!
Personally I don't think he'll get us much better than an unattractive lower-mid table side. We might not get relegated but we'll never progress under Lambert. I don't think he's got it in him. He's out of his depth, like most of our squad is too. If we continue with our ethos too, and flog our few decent players then we're asking for trouble. Unearthing a Benteke happens once in a blue Tony. We've lost the scout who spotted him too have we not? The seconds seasons signings have been puzzling.
When I see players like KEA on the pitch and we can't string 5 passes together and we look embarrassingly disorganized, I really can't see the big picture.
We've had shit seasons in the past yes, but often we had players you knew had another level to them. You knew perhaps with the right guidance or a sudden upturn in form things could get better. I'm thinking Angel from Taylor- O Leary. I do worry about our squad and whoever might take over come the time Lambert is booted out or walks out. Whoever is the next manager of Aston Villa will more than likely inherit the worst squad we've had in donkeys years. Far too much sub-premier league quality.
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Next 4 games are massive for us and him.
A) Stoke
H) Palace
H) Swansea
A) Sunderland
Play shit in most of them and/or fail to get results and it might be time for a rethink.
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Paulie put far better than I ever could, but I honestly think the results away have hidden what a poor football team we actually are, we know the new mantra of the club from the top, buy cheap and lets see where it takes us, if he was also adding some of our younger players into the mix on a ongoing basis I could maybe give him the benefit, but we are playing players that are either hopelessly out of form or just hopeless and doing nothing to address the glaringly obvious faults that are being shown to be getting worse each week. It is going to be a long hard winter and I think Lambert has reached his limit and needs replacing, who with I have not got a clue, but I am not paid thousands a year by Aston Villa to make those decisions.
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I want him to stay, at the same time I won't be lighting a candle in his memory if he gets the bullet. I like a lot of what he is trying to do, but fuck me there are a number of issues he seems blind to sorting out.
Can someone tell me what is meant every time someone says they 'like what he is trying to do'? As far as I can tell he isn't trying to do anything. Buying a load of shit players from abroad and lower leagues and turning us into the worst footballing team in the league and most appalling Villa side I have witnessed, isn't really doing anything at all.
Amen brother.
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I'll except Okore from this, as I don't know yet. But have any of the players Lambert signed in the summer proved to be a significant improvement on what we had? I don't think so, and surely that's the point of signing players for the most part.
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My support for Lambert is conditional on him trying something different to what he's actually doing, such as dropping players, getting in new coaching staff, or being properly linked with players who will provide solutions to obvious problems.
For too long, his fortunate results have negated the question of his failings. I think he's had his time here, myself.
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I have been in the give him more time camp but if he did get the sack it is because of the inadequacy he is showing as our manager.
I would feel disappointed because it would show that our Club is not progressing and I worry that this is probably the truth.
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I wouldn't be bothered if he was fired but I don't think there's any likelihood of that happening - even if we lose to stoke , palace and swansea I can't see randy pulling the trigger .
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I won't lose any sleep.
Only manager i've rated since Gregory is Houllier because anyone with limited brain cells could see what he was trying to do.
Lambert & Co........ Yawn
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I'd be very disappointed if we sacked the manager because we desperately need continuity and stability at Villa Park. If, by season's end, we have finished comfortably mid-table I will view that as good progress and a base upon which to build again. Having said that, I can't hide behind my disappointment in the past couple of performances - we have been wretched. We're in poor form and need to lift ourselves out of it.
If we finish the season in the bottom 6 would you stick with him?
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I'll except Okore from this, as I don't know yet. But have any of the players Lambert signed in the summer proved to be a significant improvement on what we had? I don't think so, and surely that's the point of signing players for the most part.
Agree
Bacuna better than Albrighton- No
Kozac better than Bent-No
Luna better than Bennett-No
Hilneus better than Delfonso No
and Tonev better than my Gran? er No
Usel
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It's comments from Lambert like he's 'proud of how we kept going' that really worry me. It's almost like he has no clue about just how poor we are.
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I want him to manage.
That means organise, have a plan and a plan b when we go behind.
Realise that our set pieces are rubbish and need to change
I think he has wasted the money he has been given and isn't using the resources at his disposal... last year when the defence was being bullied and murdered week in and week out leaving two internationals on the bench and now the same this season.
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Next 4 games are massive for us and him.
A) Stoke
H) Palace
H) Swansea
A) Sunderland
Play shit in most of them and/or fail to get results and it might be time for a rethink.
Agreed. After Christmas we will have played every team once and the "toughest start any club has ever had" thing can be put to bed. A half-season at the end of the month will give us some indication as to how safe we look. I do like Lambert and I admire the faith he has put in young players and ones from abroad that were under everyone's radar but there's only so many powder-puff displays you can take. Flattering to deceive, good at looking like you're working hard but little in the way of penetration.
I want him to spend money on proven players because I have a nagging doubt that Lerner is making more available - even in the wages department for this but it is Lambert's ethos that sees him happy at buying young players for peanuts and attempting to mould them. Who is the best player, experienced in one of Europe's top division that he's managed in his career? Is he comfortable managing players who have been successful elsewhere?
To be honest, of all the managerial mighthavebeens over the past few years, I look at Martinez's style of football, his shrewd signings (albeit largely on-loan) at Everton and how he comes across intelligently and decently as a pundit and I just wish we had got him, post-MON/Hou/McLeish (I know, he turned down an interview. I'm just saying I think he could do a better job than Lambert has at Villa).
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It's comments from Lambert like he's 'proud of how we kept going' that really worry me. It's almost like he has no clue about just how poor we are.
He may just be a manager that doesn't like to criticise his team in public. For all we know he tore them a new one in the dressing room, which is where it matters. I take most post match interviews with a pinch of salt regardless of who is making them as they will rarely say what they are really thinking, and let's be honest, if he was targeting players in interviews we'd probably be saying it was crap man management.
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It's comments from Lambert like he's 'proud of how we kept going' that really worry me. It's almost like he has no clue about just how poor we are.
He may just be a manager that doesn't like to criticise his team in public. For all we know he tore them a new one in the dressing room, which is where it matters. I take most post match interviews with a pinch of salt regardless of who is making them as they will rarely say what they are really thinking, and let's be honest, if he was targeting players in interviews we'd probably be saying it was crap man management.
In isolation I'd agree with that, but the evidence of the performances suggest he's not doing anything of the sort or addressing anything.
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I want him to stay, at the same time I won't be lighting a candle in his memory if he gets the bullet. I like a lot of what he is trying to do, but fuck me there are a number of issues he seems blind to sorting out.
Agree.
The defence seemed to have got it's self in order, but, recently, has returned to last seasons form. It shows how important Vlaar is.
For me, though, the midfield has been way to lightweight for way to long.
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I'll add that it is vital that we bolster the MF in January. Delph can't do it all on his own.
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Essentially Lambert has to show that he has a clue what he's doing, because at the moment the evidence suggests he doesn't. We're playing dreadfully on a consistent basis and don't know how to create or change a game. Our only saving grace was improved defending, but that turns out to be just down to Vlaar being excellent so even that is gone now.
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If he went I wouldn't shed any tears but without spending a fortune I couldn't imagine his successor doing too much better.
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I want him to manage.
That means organise, have a plan and a plan b when we go behind.
Realise that our set pieces are rubbish and need to change
I think he has wasted the money he has been given and isn't using the resources at his disposal... last year when the defence was being bullied and murdered week in and week out leaving two internationals on the bench and now the same this season.
Agreed
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I'm still backing him, but only just. Performances in the next 4 games are going to decide where I stand, but I'm really beginning to lose patience (and I am a very patient man).
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Sad it didn't work out but you can't ignore the form even in the games we won or drew.
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Last year we needed two new centre backs, a left back, a defensive midfielder, a creative midfielder. Unfortunately we still need them because team Lerner/Lambert brought in a load of bargain basement players in the summer who have not improved us at all.
It's either a) Lerner's fault for not allowing more spending or b) Lambert's fault for going with the 'young and hungry aka shit' transfer strategy despite more money being available or c) something in between.
Ultimately it's Lerner who needs to back the manager with more funds or we're just going to end up back at this point in another 12 months.
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Patient men are good for the planet, dekko.
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Last season the thing I liked the most was the patient way we played. We scored some fantastic goals that came after some great spells of possession. Then if we went on to lose at least we knew we were getting there. This season we seem the polar opposite and I just can't pick out what has changed! Losing while looking shit has to be one of the worst things in football.
I wouldn't sack him though. Let's let him get players back from injury and see if he can turn things around. We said mid-table would be about right at the start of the season, so we're on for that.
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I'd wait and see who the replacement was before expressing a view on whether getting rid of Lambert now was a good idea. However if you're not going to spend, then what do we want/expect from the next man. 8 home wins a season would do me......
(PS - if Lambert went now that might imply that Randy wanted a new man in place for the January transfer window. Just saying....)
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I'd wait and see who the replacement was before expressing a view on whether getting rid of Lambert now was a good idea. However if you're not going to spend, then what do we want/expect from the next man. 8 home wins a season would do me......
(PS - if Lambert went now that might imply that Randy wanted a new man in place for the January transfer window. Just saying....)
8 home wins a season under O'Neill wasn't good enough for a lot of people on here.
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I don't think we need to spend a fortune. There are some decent players in there, even among Lambert's signings. Lowton has been poor recently, but his technique is pretty good, he can produce a great cross and defensively he's improved a little bit. Vlaar has turned out to be good, Okore I am convinced will be very good indeed when he returns from injury. Benteke we know about (although he looks like he doesn't want to be here any more). Westwood is technically quite good and if he was playing with a bit more freedom, he might be more effective. Bennett improved towards the end of last season and I think he's raw enough that he could improve a lot defensively. Bacuna looks promising and even Sylla showed potential when he first arrived. Kozak has good movement, and would be more effective with a properly balanced midfield behind him.
El Ahmadi, Luna and Tonev are very poor and don't even look like they have the technical ability required at this level. Replacing just those three with proven quality - and drafting in some more experienced cover in the middle of the defence - would surely transform us. It shouldn't be a massive ask.
Assuming the team continues to underperform, then if Lambert doesn't address that lack of quality by next summer, I think he'll have to go.
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Absolutely delighted !
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Let's say we sack him, is everyone ready for yet another recruitment farce? Will the new man be allowed to bring in proven players who demand proper PL wages? Lambert may not be the answer, but I don't think he's the only problem.
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Let's say we sack him, is everyone ready for yet another recruitment farce? Will the new man be allowed to bring in proven players who demand proper PL wages? Lambert may not be the answer, but I don't think he's the only problem.
The books are now balanced. Wages are down, tv revenue is up, Faulkner the clown said so himself, so what excuse do we have to not pay Premier wages.
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Let's say we sack him, is everyone ready for yet another recruitment farce? Will the new man be allowed to bring in proven players who demand proper PL wages? Lambert may not be the answer, but I don't think he's the only problem.
Far from sacking him , I worry they are possibly of the opinion that he's doing a decent job
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not bothered . I feel like the TSM time all over again at the moment
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Just out of interest is Randolph in town right now? I know he made the Acorns donation this week at the 25th Anniversary do, but is he over here?
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Next 4 games are massive for us and him.
A) Stoke
H) Palace
H) Swansea
A) Sunderland
Play shit in most of them and/or fail to get results and it might be time for a rethink.
I expect 8/9 points - If not - bye
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Next 4 games are massive for us and him.
A) Stoke
H) Palace
H) Swansea
A) Sunderland
Play shit in most of them and/or fail to get results and it might be time for a rethink.
I expect 9 points - If not - bye
I hope for more but expect 4.
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Four points from that lot I reckon.
Draw at Stoke assuming we match them physically. A big if.
Palace look a different team under new boss. Defeat.
Swansea at home - defeat.
Sunderland away - possible win if we can do a Southampton/Arsenal on them.
At the minute though I think Newport County's midfield would piss all over ours. The FA Cup tie with Sheff Utd is a huge potential banana skin.
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I don't expect to win any of those matches.
I can't see how we can win any if those matches.
The team is not a team and nobody knows what they're doing.
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Absolutely right, we've given up trying to compete, I think we can all agree on that. We're set up to survive, and as long as that happens on a consistent basis Lambert will be at the helm. In fact, even if we go down, I'm sure he'll still be with us. That's the way I think Randy sees the situation at the moment. His opinion may change in the face of fan pressure, low gates and dwindling season ticket sales, but as it is nothing is going to change soon. And therein lies much of the problem, because Lambert knows he's safe, there's no expectation, no fear of losing, a team comfortable in defeat. We go again.
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Next 4 games are massive for us and him.
A) Stoke
H) Palace
H) Swansea
A) Sunderland
Play shit in most of them and/or fail to get results and it might be time for a rethink.
I expect 9 points - If not - bye
I hope for more but expect 4.
well we have to beat palace and swansea
and draws at sunderland and stoke
but I reckon sunderland will beat us and maybe stoke
swansea is not going to be easy and palace are looking a little better
thank fook west ham look shite at least
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Can someone put on a poll. I can't via the phone. I'd like to see the general consensus of lambert being in charge or not.
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I can if someone says please.
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Can someone put on a poll. I can't via the phone. I'd like to see the general consensus of lambert being in charge or not.
Preferably with the option of reviewing his position in the summer too.(please )
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I can if someone says please.
Pretty please with sugar on top.
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Shall we go with the usual in, out, shake him all about?
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Apologies for my manners. Please can you put up a poll.
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I can if someone says please.
please I will buy you a mince pie or a b movie horror DVD
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No worry Eric, just doing a bit of leg pulling. What options do people want?
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I can if someone says please.
please I will buy you a mince pie or a b movie horror DVD
I will let you play with my snowglobe when you are well pws ;)
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No worry Eric, just doing a bit of leg pulling. What options do people want?
"Disappointed", "Delighted" and "Meh" should just about cover it I would have thought.
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Just in or out I reckon. Please.
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Go again.
Go.
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I can if someone says please.
please I will buy you a mince pie or a b movie horror DVD
You recorded todays game then did you?
;)
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I'd wait and see who the replacement was before expressing a view on whether getting rid of Lambert now was a good idea. However if you're not going to spend, then what do we want/expect from the next man. 8 home wins a season would do me......
(PS - if Lambert went now that might imply that Randy wanted a new man in place for the January transfer window. Just saying....)
Same here, pretty much. Who could we get? What sort of job are we? We like to think of ourselves as a massive club, and can proudly point to our history to back this up. But do outsiders looking on see us in the same light? I find it hard to imagine that many do. It would take one with a deep and passionate love of the history of the game for us to attract an established top-level manager, or even one of the AVB-esque, much-vaunted, up-and-coming ilk. My worry is that this sticks us firmly on the 'arry/potatohead/Hughes-et-al roundabout, whereupon mediocrity and uninspiring Cup exits await. If we are adopting the
"young and hungry" approach, then surely the man overseeing it should be cut the same. I really thought Lambert was that man. I find myself still hoping that he is. I pray that he's got something up his sleeve for January, because I hate being proven wrong.
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No worry Eric, just doing a bit of leg pulling. What options do people want?
"Disappointed", "Delighted" and "Meh" should just about cover it I would have thought.
That's much better given the OP's question
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I have this nagging recurring thought running through my mind that I keep pushing away that, the club are showing signs of regressing back to the sixties. We purchased other clubs' cast-offs or reserves to try and stave off what was the inevitable relegation. I hope by voicing this thought that I can be proven wrong. I'd be interested in the views of the other elder posters that lived through those times to see if they may think the same.
I really want Paul Lambert to succeed, I really do; because I think he gets the club and all it stands for in the fashion of a true Villa man. Booting him out now will serve no real purpose, imo but, if he does nothing to rectify this in January or continues buying second-rate footballers then perhaps it will be time for a re-think. The way the majority of this current group are playing they would struggle in the Championship.
We talk a lot about confidence but, look at our best results this season, Arsenal, Citeh and a relatively decent away record and if they can't take confidence from that what can they take it from? The togetherness and unity from last season has disappeared, what, if anything has gone wrong? Answers on a postcard...
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I've done the same options as last time. Hopefully covers things.
*Votes cost more if made from a mobile*
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I've gone for the shake option. I like him, but he needs to pull his finger out.
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Absolutely delighted.
Presided over our worst defeat in years. We can't score. We can't defend. Set pieces are awful. There's no plan b. Six goals at home so far. Awful home form.
Tactically inept. Poor inexperienced signings. Admittedly benteke was a decent signing. (Or was he a one season wonder)
Need I go on.
spot on manager & players not good enough for the prem
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It's a tough one to call isn't it? The who-is-better-but-would-come-to-Villa argument makes it difficult to say 'out' with conviction. Disappointingly I think this will be another season scrapping down the bottom but with all our players fit we'll stay up. The question for me then is whether this is acceptable and the answer is no. Out, with regret.
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Out for the obvious reasons.
Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
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Out for the obvious reasons.
Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
I asked that question on Page 2, so far nobody.
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I don't want him to be, but it's hard not to look at his record and think that maybe he should be - or at least that it's the sort of record that gets managers sacked, in any case.
I really would like him to succeed but I am beginning to think he is a bit like MO'N in the sense that when you hear him after the games, he says the same old things and then we see the same dross a week later. I actually do not think him or his coaching staff genuinely have a clue about how they sort the quality of play out or the tactical ineptitude at times. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is definitely no plan b once the counter attacking, hoofball options have been exhausted with no success.
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It's a tough one to call isn't it? The who-is-better-but-would-come-to-Villa argument makes it difficult to say 'out' with conviction. Disappointingly I think this will be another season scrapping down the bottom but with all our players fit we'll stay up. The question for me then is whether this is acceptable and the answer is no. Out, with regret.
I'd be inclined to give him until new year to see how things go but if you are going to make a change then no later than that - I am of the opinion that even if we lose all 4 games until New Year's Day that I doubt randy would sack him - but if pushed for a decision here and now today I would say out rather than in .
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Out for the obvious reasons.
Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
I asked that question on Page 2, so far nobody.
There aren't any and that is the reason he isn't getting a lot of grief from the stands.
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The reality is we're one point off top 10.
O.K I'm not suggested open top bus parades around Aston but finish 10th and like it or not that is a solid progressive season compared to the previous three.
Now the other angle is the manner of how we play getting to top 10. Because that quite frankly is worrying me a lot.
The only period we have played in the manner of what Lambert moulded Norwich into on a consistant basis was from February-May. That was in an horrendous relegation battle (believe me give me mid table over that anytime) but we were fun to watch, had exciting games and scored some memorable goals.
This season the stats are grim. 5 defeats from the opening 8 games at Villa Park is a terrible record and any villa manager should be under pressure with that. We have also now failed to score in the last 7 of 10 premier league games which again is just not good enough.
I still don't want him out. I want to see him sign some better quality players in the 6-7m bracket (y'know like that Benteke bloke, well until his twin turned up from October) as I'm sure he wants to and hopefully the board will allow him to.
I want to see what the football is like on a consistant basis when we finally have a worthy number 10 in the team, hopefully from January.
I think this time next year is a fair time to judge, well for me anyway.
I did think of typing maybe we're doomed for this sort of mediocrity for a while due to the way football is whoever is the manager but nah if Pardew can manage a team to be challenging for top 5 for two of the last three seasons it can't be that difficult surely? Is Pardew really that much more of an outstanding manager than Lambert?
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Out for the obvious reasons.
Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
Even if there was money, would you want to give it to him?
I think if things don't dramatically change for the better, he'll be gone at the end of the season. I just hope the board have already made the necessary preparations should we need a new manager. It can't be too difficult finding a manager less tactically clueless.
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Out for the obvious reasons.
Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
I asked that question on Page 2, so far nobody.
He successfully turned it around last season. He respects the club and clearly wants to be here. Benteke looked bargain of the century last season and might yet get back to that level.
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Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
You say that as if they weren't valid reasons for not sacking him: unfortunately they are!
As far as I'm concerned, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until the summer: sacking him now would be cause too much upheaval and the above reasons for not doing so come into play. We are also 11th in the league, so what's the panic?
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Hold him by the ankles from the roof of the Holte End and shake him all about. Things aren't desperate just yet, but he needs to feel some danger. It's all too comfortable.
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Let's see what the next few results and performances bring plus any changes in January. I think he is here for the long-term.
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I don't vote out because I don't currently want him out. I like us buying inexperienced players that could prove to be world beaters rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Steve Stone etc etc. He does however need to buy the odd player who is experienced and can help the kids. So I vote shake him all about.
Some of our play and goals under him have been the best i've seen since the mid 90's, some of the football and lack of goals is truly abysmal. Shake him all about!
Constantly changing managers also isn't going to help. Neither is keeping the wrong one. Shake him all about again like a magic 8 ball to see if he is worth sticking with long term.
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Hold him by the ankles from the roof of the Holte End and shake him all about. Things aren't desperate just yet, but he needs to feel some danger. It's all too comfortable.
Good point.
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I like us buying inexperienced players that could prove to be world beaters rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Steve Stone etc etc.
I'd like us buying anyone rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Stone etc. But which of Lambert's signings do you really think will prove to be world beaters?
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Hold him by the ankles from the roof of the Holte End and shake him all about. Things aren't desperate just yet, but he needs to feel some danger. It's all too comfortable.
I don't think it's too comfortable for him, certainly not from the board. They won't allow him to continue should there be a real lapse in fans not renewing season tickets. Where it is comfortable for him is with the fans. Too many are more than willing to suffer shite football providing we win. You only have to look on here this season or look back to the MON years to see how comfortable we make it for Villa managers. Expectations are extremely low for a club our size. Why? I have no idea.
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I've voted shake him all about.
He needs to feel some heat, not abuse, constructive criticism and turn this around quickly and the next 4 games are ideal for that, so off you trot Lambert, earn your crust.
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I like us buying inexperienced players that could prove to be world beaters rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Steve Stone etc etc.
I'd like us buying anyone rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Stone etc. But which of Lambert's signings do you really think will prove to be world beaters?
The problem for me is he has bought 17 players in all of whom have never played in the premier league - you need a blend of youth and experience and the lack of experience at this level concerns me - I'd have like a couple of older heads to help the younger lads out .
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Out for the obvious reasons.
Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
I asked that question on Page 2, so far nobody.
Sure I will take a shot.
Tactically modern and flexible. Lambert has changed our formation many many times and will continue to do so. Remember how we played versus Westham opening game last season? Then all the different formations we have used. That is a strength to my mind. Lambert is always tinkering, the nicest compliment anyone has given us this season was Gus Poyet who noted, he found it hard to prepare for us because you never how how we will play.
Good in the transfer market. Lambert does not buy over valued Premier League offcasts. He goes younger lower league or overseas lower leagues. Thats smart and much more likely to get you players you can develop.
Finally Lambert has taken some nice high profile scalps so far and we have every reason to expect more. Yeah we just got beaten by Manchester United again. Oh well, shit happens they spend a lot more money than us and are always likely to win. But I take great delight in beating Arsenal and Man City this season. I hope for more to come.
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I like us buying inexperienced players that could prove to be world beaters rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Steve Stone etc etc.
I'd like us buying anyone rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Stone etc. But which of Lambert's signings do you really think will prove to be world beaters?
Benteke could be one, but needs a massive boot up his arse.
If the most you can spend is around the £5-7million mark for any one player and you are on a strict wage budget because you still have highly paid wasters hanging around or on loan then you have to be very, very lucky to chance upon a world beater who will fit those constraints.
These days there is less chance of a David Platt coming through the ranks of a lower club and becoming a superstar than ever because the Premier League academies already have all the talented kids, and most of those that might make it often fall by the wayside because of lack of opportunities in the first teams because buying an average but "ready to play" foreign player is seen as less of a risk than blooding a youngster.
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I don't necessarily think he should be sacked yet but I wouldn't be upset if he was. I'm having doubts as to whether he's up to the job. When you look at some other managers who have joined a club and set about improving them (Martinez, Rodgers, Pochettino) then look at us since Lambert joined and there hasn't been much improvement at all. He's had time and bought plenty of players - this is very definitely his squad now - but we can barely string four passes together and only know how to play on the counter. The points to games ratio must be pretty sorry reading.
I expected more than this by now.
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I like us buying inexperienced players that could prove to be world beaters rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Steve Stone etc etc.
I'd like us buying anyone rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Stone etc. But which of Lambert's signings do you really think will prove to be world beaters?
I said could be. Doesn't mean they are or will be.
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Ciggiesnbeer, this is not the time to be taking the piss.
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Hold him by the ankles from the roof of the Holte End and shake him all about. Things aren't desperate just yet, but he needs to feel some danger. It's all too comfortable.
This could be a good solution. I like it a lot.
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Ciggiesnbeer, this is not the time to be taking the piss.
Sorry, I have managed to find my midweek optimism a few days early :)
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I like us buying inexperienced players that could prove to be world beaters rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Steve Stone etc etc.
I'd like us buying anyone rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Stone etc. But which of Lambert's signings do you really think will prove to be world beaters?
I said could be. Doesn't mean they are or will be.
Yes, and I said which do you think will be?
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Knee jerk. Voted in. Behind Lambert and trust that he will fix this and get us playing well.
Any team would struggle without their two main centre backs and their star striker playing like he doesn't want to be there.
If we buy the ACM we need in January I think we'll do well.
Not having a go at anyone but I do feel some of the criticisms of PL are a tad reactionary.
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Ciggiesnbeer, this is not the time to be taking the piss.
Sorry, I have managed to find my midweek optimism a few days early :)
Well you managed to get a small smile out of me for the first time since 1.40pm today. "Tactically modern and flexible"... go easy on the pills.
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I like us buying inexperienced players that could prove to be world beaters rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Steve Stone etc etc.
I'd like us buying anyone rather than players like Beye, Collins, Heskey, Stone etc. But which of Lambert's signings do you really think will prove to be world beaters?
I said could be. Doesn't mean they are or will be.
Yes, and I said which do you think will be?
Fuck me, how hard is it to grasp? I haven't said any of them will be. Just that chances are increased by buying 20 year olds from around Europe rather than 27 year PL players that everyone knows what they can do.
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Fuck me, how hard is it to grasp? I haven't said anyone of them will be. Just that chances are increased by buying 20 year olds from around Europe rather than 27 year PL players that everyone knows what they can do.
Calm down dear, it's only a question. I know you haven't said any of them will be; that's what I'm asking you to say. Which do you think will become world beaters? Some of them? Any of them? Which ones?
It's a pretty simple question really. I'm asking you for your opinion.
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I'll ask a question. If he went, who would replace him?
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I voted to shake him all about - if this "style" of play continues over the next 4 matches and he does not buy well in January then there is something very wrong at VP
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I'll ask a question. If he went, who would replace him?
Bill who sits next to me - he knows what to do - I haven't got a clue ;-)
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I'll ask a question. If he went, who would replace him?
Depends when he went, how much Randy was prepared to pay to get the guy he wanted, how much transfer money the new guy would get, etc etc.
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I'll ask a question. If he went, who would replace him?
Bloody teachers, we haven't answered the first question yet, give us a chance Sir.
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Fuck me, how hard is it to grasp? I haven't said anyone of them will be. Just that chances are increased by buying 20 year olds from around Europe rather than 27 year PL players that everyone knows what they can do.
Calm down dear, it's only a question. I know you haven't said any of them will be; that's what I'm asking you to say. Which do you think will become world beaters? Some of them? Any of them? Which ones?
It's a pretty simple question really. I'm asking you for your opinion.
Or are you stalking me again? *rubs chin*
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Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
You say that as if they weren't valid reasons for not sacking him: unfortunately they are!
As far as I'm concerned, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until the summer: sacking him now would be cause too much upheaval and the above reasons for not doing so come into play. We are also 11th in the league, so what's the panic?
They aren't valid reasons because they aren't true. Are you seriously trying to tell me Paul Lambert,poached from Norwich with his 1 season of top flight experience is in all likelihood the best manager in the entire world that we can attract, financial constraints taken into account and that he has spent his £43m very well and got us playing as good football as we can expect from that outlay?
Pull the other one.
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Or are you stalking me again? *rubs chin*
No, I'm asking for your opinion. Which evidently you're struggling with. Hey ho.
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Or are you stalking me again? *rubs chin*
No, I'm asking for your opinion. Which evidently you're struggling with. Hey ho.
Okore and Benteke. Maybe some of the others as well. Who knows. I reckon Bowery will surprise us all. Now stop stalking me or i'll tell Legion.
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Out for the obvious reasons.
Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
I asked that question on Page 2, so far nobody.
Sure I will take a shot.
Tactically modern and flexible. Lambert has changed our formation many many times and will continue to do so. Remember how we played versus Westham opening game last season? Then all the different formations we have used. That is a strength to my mind. Lambert is always tinkering, the nicest compliment anyone has given us this season was Gus Poyet who noted, he found it hard to prepare for us because you never how how we will play.
Good in the transfer market. Lambert does not buy over valued Premier League offcasts. He goes younger lower league or overseas lower leagues. Thats smart and much more likely to get you players you can develop.
Finally Lambert has taken some nice high profile scalps so far and we have every reason to expect more. Yeah we just got beaten by Manchester United again. Oh well, shit happens they spend a lot more money than us and are always likely to win. But I take great delight in beating Arsenal and Man City this season. I hope for more to come.
I'd have thought Lamberts ''tactics'' are one of the last reasons anyone would vote for him to stay and as for being good in the transfer market, take Benteke out of the equation and how many good buys has he made?
Scalps my arse aswell, that's making us sound like Cheltenham making a cup giant killing, have we sunk that low that a few wins against the sky 6 are something to put on the Managers CV?
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Alex McLeish in answer to Lee's question.
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Not really bothered. The results are generally the same as the previous couple of managers and are probably the same as what any potential new manager would do. We cant compete anymore, so does it matter if we finish 6th or 16th or if Lambert is the manager or not.
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Okore and Benteke. Maybe some of the others as well. Who knows. I reckon Bowery will surprise us all. Now stop stalking me or i'll tell Legion.
Hallelujah. That didn't need to be so difficult now did it? (NB. Don't panic, this last question is rhetorical.)
I agree with you about Benteke. Haven't seen nearly enough of Okore to say, although the first impression was good. The rest - bar Helenius, who I haven't seen at all - don't look so far to be in the future world beater class. At the moment I'd settle for a handful of them being in the decent Premier League class.
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I'd feel like a Baggie, and I don't like that feeling
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You can't do it on the cheap in the PL; you might get away with it for a season or two, but eventually you get found out. I don't Lambert or Lerner are the right men to take us forward.
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Tactically modern and flexible. Lambert has changed our formation many many times and will continue to do so. Remember how we played versus Westham opening game last season? Then all the different formations we have used. That is a strength to my mind. Lambert is always tinkering, the nicest compliment anyone has given us this season was Gus Poyet who noted, he found it hard to prepare for us because you never how how we will play.
I'm pretty sure that wasn't a compliment from Poyet. He was simply as confused by what Lambert's up to as the next man, including our own players by the looks of it.
That said he did manage to bring his bang out of form side along for an easy point and could've easily taken all 3 of course. Maybe he'll send Lambert a Christmas card for that.
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Give him the January window to get a centre half and a creative midfielder in. I'm not happy, but the squad isn't good enough and I can't see the point of sacking him. Sadly, avoiding relegation is our target again so if we finish where we are now it wouldn't be too bad.
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Has anyone come up with a reason yet for keeping him other than who else is there and theres no money anyway?
You say that as if they weren't valid reasons for not sacking him: unfortunately they are!
As far as I'm concerned, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until the summer: sacking him now would be cause too much upheaval and the above reasons for not doing so come into play. We are also 11th in the league, so what's the panic?
They aren't valid reasons because they aren't true. Are you seriously trying to tell me Paul Lambert,poached from Norwich with his 1 season of top flight experience is in all likelihood the best manager in the entire world that we can attract, financial constraints taken into account and that he has spent his £43m very well and got us playing as good football as we can expect from that outlay?
Pull the other one.
No, I'm certainly not saying that he's spent all the money wisely, or that the football currently on display is acceptable, but yes, I am seriously suggesting that I don't think anyone of a better PROVEN standard would come. Villa has more class than the rest of the league put together as far as I'm concerned, but we're not a fashionable club. What's the incentive? At least Lambert seems happy and enthusiastic to be here and keen to at least attempt the job in hand! A new manager would have to be prepared to work under the same constraints and that narrows the field of possible candidates still further.
Top, top managers need top, top money and probably complete control and Lerner's not going to fall for that again. O'Neill was certainly no better than Lambert, when it came to tactics: he just had more money to piss up the wall invest. The only alternative would seem to be one of a band of interchangeable dullard jobworths, and I don't want us to join the eternal carousel of trouble-shooters, has-beens and never-weres which seems to be the chosen mode of transport for Allardyce, Pulis, Bruce, Hughes and Co.
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I thought most of us accepted that the next step would probably be away from a relegation battle into a mid table position. Which is where we are. I'm not going to spit my dummy out because we have lost to United, especially as Vlaar and Delph were out.
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I thought most of us accepted that the next step would probably be away from a relegation battle into a mid table position. Which is where we are. I'm not going to spit my dummy out because we have lost to United, especially as Vlaar and Delph were out.
All this midtable is what we are talk worries me - 3 weeks ago the Albion were above us and 9th , now they are just above the drop zone - it's very tight down there and every team in the bottom half could easily drop into the relegation zone in the next 3 weeks - lets not think we are well clear of trouble.
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We've seen how easy it is to slip into a terrible run. We're not mid-table yet. It's not May. The way we're playing at the moment, in every game, is more likely to see us losing games than winning or drawing. That means struggling at the bottom. Lambert takes a hell of a long time to identify and address problems, which is a worry. We're playing a dangerous game indeed.
We need more proven quality in january. Not a couple of players, but 3-4.
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We've seen how easy it is to slip into a terrible run. We're not mid-table yet. It's not May. The way we're playing at the moment, in every game, is more likely to see us losing games than winning or drawing. That means struggling at the bottom. Lambert takes a hell of a long time to identify and address problems, which is a worry. We're playing a dangerous game indeed.
We need more proven quality in january. Not a couple of players, but 3-4.
Exactly - we are 2 points clear of the bottom 6 at this moment in time - hardly comfortable .
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I'd feel disappointed,confused and tired of starting all over again. Our club is crying out for stability, we should have been relegated under McCleish when we had no wins in the last 10 games and finished on 38 points. We could have gone down last season but pulled ourselves together with the fans support playing a massive part and won 17 points in the last 10 games. This season we are half way in the league, the football isn't as exciting as the latter part of last season but at the moment we don't look like going down. I worry that the team, being so young, are fragile mentally and they won't react well if the crowd turns on them. Thankfully the crowd are with them and Lambert in the majority and a couple of wins changes perceptions. I look at games against the top 8 and hope we can get something from them and celebrate like mad when we do, I certainly don't expect to beat them at this stage. I'm pro Lambert and hope we invest again in the January window for the midfielder we need to continue the progression.
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6 points clear of relegation zone.
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I would feel bemused.
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6 points clear of relegation zone.
That's hardly a great amount - conceivable that the team 2nd bottom could be level with us in 12 days time - having seen recent displays I wouldn't fancy us to beat stoke or palace .
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I would. We're great at being inconsistent and unpredictable.
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Tell me who we'd get to replace him, then I'll tell you if it's a good idea.
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We've seen how easy it is to slip into a terrible run. We're not mid-table yet. It's not May. The way we're playing at the moment, in every game, is more likely to see us losing games than winning or drawing. That means struggling at the bottom. Lambert takes a hell of a long time to identify and address problems, which is a worry. We're playing a dangerous game indeed.
We need more proven quality in january. Not a couple of players, but 3-4.
Exactly - we are 2 points clear of the bottom 6 at this moment in time - hardly comfortable .
We are 5 points from the bottom 3. We have lost out last 2 games and not moved down from 11th. Relegation is about placings not points
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Thankfully Sunderland look all but gone. Palace have improved but really lack quality. Fulham will still struggle too. West Ham desperately need a front man. I don't think we'll be in any danger of dropping, but as for all the sides between 15-20 points at the moment, it's all much of a muchness.
We can't expect to play badly all season and still pick up enough results. At some point we have to improve, but Lambert needs to do something decisive. We're utterly wretched to watch.
Finishing 16th on 40 odd points having played shite isn't acceptable. If we finished 8-10th around 50 points having played at least reasonably, that's more than acceptable. I think the former is more likely given our form. Sadly I think that is enough for the Chairman.
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We've seen how easy it is to slip into a terrible run. We're not mid-table yet. It's not May. The way we're playing at the moment, in every game, is more likely to see us losing games than winning or drawing. That means struggling at the bottom. Lambert takes a hell of a long time to identify and address problems, which is a worry. We're playing a dangerous game indeed.
We need more proven quality in january. Not a couple of players, but 3-4.
Exactly - we are 2 points clear of the bottom 6 at this moment in time - hardly comfortable .
We are 5 points from the bottom 3. We have lost out last 2 games and not moved down from 11th. Relegation is about placings not points
3 weeks ago west brom were 9th - its easy to be dragged into it fast - lose at stoke and we could be 3 points off 2nd bottom - we need to stop crowing about being midtable - any of the bottom half could easily be dragged into trouble and we are playing awful football- scoring few and defending terribly at the moment.
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I think I would be quite pleased, it would demonstrate that Randy is paying attention.
However, I'm not at the point of calling for his dismissal. I'll wait and see how we get on in the next four winnable games. If we are not successful (a minimum of 8 points) then he should go before it's too late and we get sucked into the usual relegation battle.
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I'm fully behind Lambert although not without question, the home form and quality of football must improve in the 2nd part of the season. I don't think that's asking for a miracle given we did that last season in a relegation battle.
How about this for an alternative though, Marcelo Bielsa. That sort of managerial appointment would get the football world sitting up and taking notice in the way O'Neill did and for anyone who's watched Chile or Bilbao will know he ain't boring in tactics or philosophy.
The sort who though would need a pre season to implement things rather than mid season.
On balance though Lambert to stay as no doubt in two years time we'd probably be in the same position under another British manager if we sacked him now.
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I think I would be quite pleased, it would demonstrate that Randy is paying attention.
However, I'm not at the point of calling for his dismissal. I'll wait and see how we get on in the next four winnable games. If we are not successful (a minimum of 8 points) then he should go before it's too late and we get sucked into the usual relegation battle.
I'm of a similar view but would say a minimum of 6 points from these 4 games- anything less and we will enter the new year in a battle .
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You'd like to think we could win the two home games on the spin against Palace and Swansea, but it's unlikely. Both sides are improving and there's not a hope in hell we'll win two home games on the bounce. One of them I think we'll lose (probably Swansea). Stoke I think will win against us. Sunderland is a must win. We've got to kick them while they're down, and it suits us more playing on their patch than ours.
A big worry right now though is that pretty much every home game just feels like a difficult prospect. So it puts a huge onus on our away form.
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We've seen how easy it is to slip into a terrible run. We're not mid-table yet. It's not May. The way we're playing at the moment, in every game, is more likely to see us losing games than winning or drawing. That means struggling at the bottom. Lambert takes a hell of a long time to identify and address problems, which is a worry. We're playing a dangerous game indeed.
We need more proven quality in january. Not a couple of players, but 3-4.
Exactly - we are 2 points clear of the bottom 6 at this moment in time - hardly comfortable .
We are 5 points from the bottom 3. We have lost out last 2 games and not moved down from 11th. Relegation is about placings not points
3 weeks ago west brom were 9th - its easy to be dragged into it fast - lose at stoke and we could be 3 points off 2nd bottom - we need to stop crowing about being midtable - any of the bottom half could easily be dragged into trouble and we are playing awful football- scoring few and defending terribly at the moment.
We could be, but Fulham are playing Man City and Weat Ham are Man Ure, so I reckon we won't be 3 points off 2nd bottom.
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One of them I think we'll lose (probably Swansea).
Don't say that! It's the first game I can get to this season!
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One of them I think we'll lose (probably Swansea).
Don't say that! It's the first game I can get to this season!
If we win that game, we'll all insist you turn up to every home game sir.
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One of them I think we'll lose (probably Swansea).
Don't say that! It's the first game I can get to this season!
Same here but I am seriously thinking of giving it a miss.
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Swansea are missing a shed load through injury (Dyer could've broken his ankle today) and they play us on the back of playing Chelsea away 48 hourse beforehand.
Lambert also gets great results off them, 4 points last season (no idea how we drew and nearly won the away game) and he regularly beat them as Norwich manager.
I agree two home wins in a row seems unlikely so I reckon we'll beat Swansea and draw with Palace. Point at Stoke aswell.
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It is interesting that we are having a pop at Albion for panicking and sacking their manager and then discussing sacking ours. I'm not complacent about our current league position but it is where we are at the moment. Let's see how we do against Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Sunderland.
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It is interesting that we are having a pop at Albion for panicking and sacking their manager and then discussing sacking ours. I'm not complacent about our current league position but it is where we are at the moment. Let's see how we do against Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Sunderland.
This.
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It is interesting that we are having a pop at Albion for panicking and sacking their manager and then discussing sacking ours. I'm not complacent about our current league position but it is where we are at the moment. Let's see how we do against Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Sunderland.
Not sure I'd call 31 points from 34 games this year a panic sacking considering he was backed in the summer financially.
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Lambert's career managerial record suggests he can be a success but if he's seriously hampered in who he signs by player wage expectations it's Lerner who should be facing the music. I, like many season ticket holders have tolerated cutbacks on the field for the last few years as a necessary medicine but this can't go on indefinitely. We have to at least attempt to compete with the likes of Everton in the long run. We're Aston Villa for God's sake, not Norwich, Hull or Swansea.
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It is interesting that we are having a pop at Albion for panicking and sacking their manager and then discussing sacking ours. I'm not complacent about our current league position but it is where we are at the moment. Let's see how we do against Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Sunderland.
Not sure I'd call 31 points from 34 games this year a panic sacking considering he was backed in the summer financially.
Yes but he was backed to improve the squad in numbers. The money he spent is peanuts for this division. Look around at transfer fees and more importantly the wages on offer elsewhere.
Maybe he should have blown the budget on one player instead?
It's not great I agree and its disappointing that we finished well last season playing some good football, if a little gungho at times. I'm really surprised how we can not score after the way ended last season and the goals drying up from Benteke is really having a knock on effect with confidence. I just really hope he gets one soon and the floodgates open. When he's on fire he was so good last season and anything can happen.
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If shaking him all about means getting him to sort this mess out I'm goin for that. I'm not happy, far from it, we don't seem to be able to sort the basics. We can't defend, we can't score the midfield is useless. But while randy is here no point in sacking him because he's not backing the managers anymore. Westwood, Lowton, Weimann are all having second season syndrome, I'm sick off all this young hungry bullshit. Why can't we take a free kick or a corner. Why can't we pass the ball 6 yards? Why can't we take a god damn throw in? All this needs to be answered for
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It is interesting that we are having a pop at Albion for panicking and sacking their manager and then discussing sacking ours. I'm not complacent about our current league position but it is where we are at the moment. Let's see how we do against Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Sunderland.
Not sure I'd call 31 points from 34 games this year a panic sacking considering he was backed in the summer financially.
Yes but he was backed to improve the squad in numbers. The money he spent is peanuts for this division. Look around at transfer fees and more importantly the wages on offer elsewhere.
Maybe he should have blown the budget on one player instead?
It's not great I agree and its disappointing that we finished well last season playing some good football, if a little gungho at times. I'm really surprised how we can not score after the way ended last season and the goals drying up from Benteke is really having a knock on effect with confidence. I just really hope he gets one soon and the floodgates open. When he's on fire he was so good last season and anything can happen.
I was referring to Clarke's sacking and your comment about them panicking - 31 points from 34 games is dreadful.
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Sorry Eastie I misread your comments. I thought you had meant Lambert had been backed.
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I'd be disappointed I didn't get to see that 'something special' he was building.
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I disagree with Clarke's sacking but he has had a poor 2013. I would suggest that Lambert has had a decent 2013 points wise.
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Lambert's career managerial record suggests he can be a success but if he's seriously hampered in who he signs by player wage expectations it's Lerner who should be facing the music. I, like many season ticket holders have tolerated cutbacks on the field for the last few years as a necessary medicine but this can't go on indefinitely. We have to at least attempt to compete with the likes of Everton in the long run. We're Aston Villa for God's sake, not Norwich, Hull or Swansea.
I think this is where Lambert gets out of jail. He has bought the way he has because it has been imposed on him to do so. Cut him 15 million and the wages for 3 better players in Jan of prem quality, and then if they are not good enough and there is no improvement hang him for it, but it would be wrong to do so without that opportunity.
It was a diabolical squad, he had awful luck last season, and with Okore, Benteke losing form and Vlaar he has had similar this. Time. He is a capable manager IMO.
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I still feel that we could all see that we needed a creative playmaker for the last 18 months and it hasn't been addressed - I'm not sure Kozak and helenius were a priority compared to the woeful lack of creativity in midfield.
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My concern is who would replace him .I recall last season a sports reporter name escapes me now but basically said we were lucky to have Lambert as no one would take the job based on the budget that was being offered.
I'm not happy with the performances of late but really finances to make a difference.Would Rodgers do a good job with us ? Doing great at Liverpool but he inhertad a world class player in Suarez and has spent millions (Joe Allen cost around the same as our first 11 today ) Martinez did well at Wigan but constantly fought and ultimately lost the fight of relegation.Now at Everton walked into decent squad then had backing to bring players in and is now a top 4 contender.
In conclusion he could do better but I doubt as a ambitious manager he would be picking up players to play in the Prem League who barely cost a million if his hand wasn't being forced.It seems now after the MON years we are being ultra cautious for me the problem is we are risking our PL place and also surely by constantly performing badly making the club less marketable and thus losing income.
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In some respects he's been let down by his players, but the bottom line he is responsible for the side that he sends and the manner in which they approach the game. This is now mostly his side and he has to set the tone before they leave the dressing room. That we have now barely come close to 40% possession is on the manager and if he doesn't want us to lose the ball then that is all we should be practicing during the week. It is the biggest thing that is threatening to derail what has been a promising start to the season.
The next few weeks gives us an opportunity to look in the mirror and make some additions to the side that will make a difference. If he persists in sticking to the current plan of player acquisition then he shouldn't be surprised if at the end of the season his own position is in question. As manager he needs to go to the board ahead of January and tell them that we need some players of proven ability to rescue this season. I don't think it will need much to turn it around but the change to how we play needs to be done quickly or the current circumstances will quickly spiral into a situation that could become very difficult to get out of.
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Also all this lack of possession is tiring when you are continually chasing the opposition - later in the season our fitness levels could suffer as some players may be burnt out .
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It's not as if he hasn't had any cash and in the best MON-ism he now has a growing collection of players that seem to be surplus to the squad.... Bennett, Helenius, Bowery you can add the group of players he has totally de-valued (Bent, Given and Hutton) to that little group. When resources are limited surely you need to address the key issues first... where you can question Kozak's signing.
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I was encouraged by some of the performances in the second half of last season and I thought we had kicked on again with the performances in the first three games of this season. Since then, however, we have regressed badly and although we sit fairly comfortably in the table at the moment, we are still uncomfortably close to relegation trouble.
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Also all this lack of possession is tiring when you are continually chasing the opposition - later in the season our fitness levels could suffer as some players may be burnt out .
I'm wondering if this hasn't contributed toward injuries already.
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Well I personally hope he stays and I think he is doing the job that needs to be done at the moment as well as could be expected.
When he took over I guess the general plan was to clear the squad of high paid players who were not playing in order to get the club in a sound financial position whilst staying in the premier league. The second part was to build a base and then slowly build from there.
I would say we are still in phase one of this plan and whilst I agree that it isn't pretty at the moment I also think it is necessary.
Where we are next summer will be interesting. If Benteke does move for £40m and the usual £20m is made available then it will be interesting to see how this money is spent.
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I'll eat my own head if we can get anywhere near £40m for Benteke next summer.
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I'll eat my own head if we can get anywhere near £40m for Benteke next summer.
We'll be lucky to get 40 quid if he carries on playing like this.
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I haven't read the entire thread but my question is how would the players feel? Never mind if the supporters think he is right/wrong for the job - if the players have already made their mind up and don't seem capable of raising their game or doing whatever it is he's telling them to do then it's time for him to go.
That said, I can't see Lerner forking out more of his money to get rid of Lambert and his coaching staff. We're likely stuck with him until at least the end of the season. Hopefully we can stumble our way to safety - but I have my doubts - and then reassess. Fresh (or perhaps 'older') blood is clearly needed in January.
Lambert's critical mission for now is working out a way for us to play at home and turn around this appalling run of results. A decent run of home results will boost confidence (on and off the pitch) and relieve some pressure.
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I wonder if the fans who travel home and away look on things a bit more positively than the season ticket holders who don't travel. One of my favourite ever seasons was '87-'88 when I went home and away all season. But up until the last three games and clinching promotion I wonder how home fans felt about that season. We have games against Stoke, Palace, Swansea and Sunderland and a transfer window coming up. Although after last year I'm not getting too excited about the window.
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Season ticket holders do travel. I go home and away and so do my sons. Whether we get shot of Lambert is neither here nor there while there is in place the overriding priority of balancing the books. I think Lambert has not lived up to expectations and neither have the players he has brought in. He has favourites (KEA especially is specially undeserving of the starts he gets), he is boring, he is inarticulate to the point of incomprehension, he is not football savvy, he has money wasting tendencies (Kozak for example) but he tries to play attacking football and he is not TSM.
With so much money having been wasted there appears to be little chance that the book balancing straight jacket will be removed any time in the next few years. I cannot see any manager able to do much more than Lambert is doing under the circumstances except perhaps be less monosyllabic and boring. What would you give to have BFR talking to the players and talking to the fans.
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I'll eat my own head if we can get anywhere near £40m for Benteke next summer.
We'll be lucky to get 40 quid if he carries on playing like this.
£20m top whack if he regains some form - this barren spell will have showed clubs he is far from the finished article yet.
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Season ticket holders do travel. I go home and away and so do my sons. Whether we get shot of Lambert is neither here nor there while there is in place the overriding priority of balancing the books. I think Lambert has not lived up to expectations and neither have the players he has brought in. He has favourites (KEA especially is specially undeserving of the starts he gets), he is boring, he is inarticulate to the point of incomprehension, he is not football savvy, he has money wasting tendencies (Kozak for example) but he tries to play attacking football and he is not TSM.
With so much money having been wasted there appears to be little chance that the book balancing straight jacket will be removed any time in the next few years. I cannot see any manager able to do much more than Lambert is doing under the circumstances except perhaps be less monosyllabic and boring. What would you give to have BFR talking to the players and talking to the fans.
I agree with a lot of your posts and am delighted you are no longer Navin - however I'm not in agreement about him trying to play attacking football- many times this season we have struggled to even get an attempt on goal and the football to me has been for the most part totally dreadful .
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I think WBA were right to sack Clarke. He's been on the slump for a long time.
If we sacked Lambert I don't think I would be that bothered, I'm bored of everything to do with Villa at the moment, that's a combination of Paul Lambert, the awful football, the home form and the lack of real investment.
I worry about the next appointment.
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I worry about the next appointment.
That's it in a nutshell. Can we trust the club to make the right appointment, in the right manner? And would the new man make any difference under the current financial constraints?
Lambert has assembled his own team at no little cost. A new man will almost certainly want to do the same. There's no way we'll want to start the clearout process all over again so I'm afraid we're stuck with what we have for good or bad.
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A new manager, as we know better than any other club means new players in and current players out. We couldn't get buyers and decent money for the likes of Bent so how a new man would flog Lambert's signings at the moment god knows. David Jason maybe?
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I hope he gets a good few more seasons yet.
I don’t see the sense in chopping and changing now, to what effect? I expect he is hitting the targets discussed with Lerner et al at the start of the season 12th-8th and as uneventful as possible please, which is by and large what we have seen.
Its not about lowering expectations, its about looking at things in context of what has preceded and why that is a realistic target for the time being. It won’t be next seasons target or the target for 2024.
It will be interesting to see how the financial situation either changes or stays the same. Several large contracts are due to expire in the summer and we learnt from that Trust meeting that the books are now balanced. If you factor in that Lambert has already re-built the squad over two seasons, then ideally there should be more money to spend in transfers and on wages on a smaller number of players.
Its not great at the moment with the past five games showing iffy form performance wise, but we have still taken seven points from them and have another run of games where even if the poor form continues, the quality is absent to punish us for it.
I think patience is hard to come by, especially when it is so expensive to watch the game, but I don’t see the sense in sacking Lambert and I am convinced neither does Lerner.
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Whoever came in we would be looking at possibly upper midtable due to finances but the football may be more entertaining - gates will drop if the football at villa park continues to be so drab - maybe lerner needs to remind him that we expect an improvement in home form and that at the moment its unacceptable - I can't see lerner sacking him in all honesty although I would feel no sympathy for him if he did .
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I think a number of players needed to be brought in after the year under TSM. We have done that, albeit with varying degrees of success, but I honestly think now that two or three quality signings would make a huge difference. If I was a manager I would sooner take over now than when Lambert did. But the finance for those two or three players and their wages has to be there because as I said before there isn't a lot of room for wheeling and dealing except flogging Benteke and at the moment even that doesn't look like the jackpot we thought it might be.
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I don't think he's going anywhere unless there's a sudden dramatic change in results. As much as I admire his philosophy of bringing in young and hungry players, I think he needs to being in a bit of experience in January.
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Some home games it almost doesn't even look like we're trying to win the game. That's one of the worst things about it. For a manager who's supposed to be all about attack and apparently a bit gung ho, Lambert has proved this season he can out-McLeish, Alex McLeish. Which lets face it, takes some chuffing doing.
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Whether we get shot of Lambert is neither here nor there while there is in place the overriding priority of balancing the books.
There is a lot if truth in this.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because it's what Lambert wants to do, then it's worrying because it isn't going to get us very far under him.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because that's all the wage bill can stand then it doesn't matter who the manager is. Which is even more worrying.
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Whether we get shot of Lambert is neither here nor there while there is in place the overriding priority of balancing the books.
There is a lot if truth in this.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because it's what Lambert wants to do, then it's worrying because it isn't going to get us very far under him.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because that's all the wage bill can stand then it doesn't matter who the manager is. Which is even more worrying.
Everton seem to be managing ok.
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Whether we get shot of Lambert is neither here nor there while there is in place the overriding priority of balancing the books.
There is a lot if truth in this.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because it's what Lambert wants to do, then it's worrying because it isn't going to get us very far under him.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because that's all the wage bill can stand then it doesn't matter who the manager is. Which is even more worrying.
I don't think reasonable wages are entirely beyond us. 4 players got pay rises in the summer and Kozak came from a big club in Serie A for 7 million.
I'd also rather see us spend 15-20million on 3-4 players as opposed to spreading that over 7 players as we did in the summer. I'd trade 3 of Lamberts long shot punts for one half decent player.
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Whether we get shot of Lambert is neither here nor there while there is in place the overriding priority of balancing the books.
There is a lot if truth in this.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because it's what Lambert wants to do, then it's worrying because it isn't going to get us very far under him.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because that's all the wage bill can stand then it doesn't matter who the manager is. Which is even more worrying.
Everton seem to be managing ok.
They didn't create an entire team of low wage players in one season, though.
We went about fixing our wage bill with an Osborne-like zeal, and as a result have a squad of much cheaper players.
Sadly they're also not much cop.
I don't like paying stupid money to players who don't deserve it, but this is what happens if you go from 50 or 60k a week players to 10k a week ones in one jump.
Everton, for example, are paying the loan fee and wages for Lukaku - whose wages we couldn't afford when he went to Albion.
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Whether we get shot of Lambert is neither here nor there while there is in place the overriding priority of balancing the books.
There is a lot if truth in this.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because it's what Lambert wants to do, then it's worrying because it isn't going to get us very far under him.
If we're buying lower league mediocrity because that's all the wage bill can stand then it doesn't matter who the manager is. Which is even more worrying.
Everton seem to be managing ok.
Everton, for example, are paying the loan fee and wages for Lukaku - whose wages we couldn't afford when he went to Albion.
Whilst this is true, they only did this because they got £28m on transfer deadline day and Chelsea are not going to sell him and if they do, I can't see Everton being able to afford him.
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28m for Fellaini, who they spent 15m on, lest we forget.
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They paid 5-6 million, plus his wages at around 70k a week for the season. It is a huge amount. Worth it - probably, but when we had Benteke already, who looked brilliant early doors, and simply need a couple of goals to get his confidence back, then you can see why we have not looked at it.
I will forgive the spreading of the cash we have paid out, and if Lambert is to be believed it is significantly less than the fees published, so far as he has been simply trying to build a new squad from top to bottom.
Now though, it is very simple that money has to be spent on say 2 positions in a window where we get quality. Not 7 and get mediocre.
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Still believe that Lambert is the right man for the job but I am alarmed by the ineptitude of some of the performances this year. Yet another seaon of misery at home. It wears you out.
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This has probably been mentioned somewhere in the last 14 pages but I think if we hadn't had injuries to Okore and Benteke we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Yes I'm unhappy with the performances and the overall lack of clear progress, but if you break it down into actual managerial decisions I still think Lambert gets it right more than he gets it wrong.
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This has probably been mentioned somewhere in the last 14 pages but I think if we hadn't had injuries to Okore and Benteke we wouldn't be having this discussion.
A lot of truth in that and you can include Vlaar in there too. But even so, injuries are not unique to our club. Every club has its share throughout a season how they cope with their back up players in such instances is what separates us from them. We can do okay with Clark filling in for Okore with Vlaar alongside. We are a shambles with Clark alongside Baker filling in for Vlaar. There is so much wrong with our defense at the moment it is difficult to know where to start to put it right. January can't come quick enough.
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The players he's spend reasonable outlay on like benteke, Vlaar and okore are all internationals and decent signings - but it's the cheap £1 bargain basement stuff that he's bought too much of - bacuna, kea, Bowery, Lowton , Westwood, luna, Bennett, etc - one or two may come off but not often when you are signing players at such low prices.
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The players he's spend reasonable outlay on like benteke, Vlaar and okore are all internationals and decent signings - but it's the cheap £1 bargain basement stuff that he's bought too much of - bacuna, kea, Bowery, Lowton , Westwood, luna, Bennett, etc - one or two may come off but not often when you are signing players at such low prices.
A lot of them would have more chance of performing if they weren't so surrounded with other players of the same quality and experience - more of a factor last year, but still a factor this year, by the looks of it.
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I think we'll really see the direction Lambert and co are going in in the next 2 transfer windows.
I don't necessarily agree with the current transfer policy, but I can see a certain logic in the way we did business last summer. I think most of the players signed (Okore aside) were more or less bought as squad players (or injury cover/competition, whatever) who could be blooded gradually to give them time to adjust to the league. Which would've been fine, except all of our best players from last season's run-in (Benteke/Gabby/Weimann/Lowton/Westy) either got injured or their form went completely to shit, which has exposed the fact that most of the rest of the squad aren't quite up to it (yet?).
We have a squad now, all thats needed is to add some quality in 2 or 3 key positions, get some of our players back from injury and get the others to start playing something like they were last spring, and we'll be in a good position.
If Lambert goes out in the summer and spends 20 million or so on 2 or 3 good players I think we'll be on the right track.
However, if he spends that same 20 million on another 6 or 7 £2million players then I think that'll be the time to start seriously calling for heads to roll. We don't need quantity, we need quality.
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The players he's spend reasonable outlay on like benteke, Vlaar and okore are all internationals and decent signings - but it's the cheap £1 bargain basement stuff that he's bought too much of - bacuna, kea, Bowery, Lowton , Westwood, luna, Bennett, etc - one or two may come off but not often when you are signing players at such low prices.
I wouldn't be putting Bacuna in that bracket. He's been shifted round the pitch a lot this season and he's only been here a few months, as with Luna who's picked up a few niggly injuries along the way. Lowton and Westwood are finding it tougher this time round though.
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Luna was fuckin awful yesterday, he apologized on twitter but fuck me he needs to remember his first job is to defend
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We've got to hold our nerve. It would be stupid to start all over again.
I'm still convinced he'll come good with a little more backing.
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Luna was fuckign awful yesterday, he apologized on twitter but fuck me he needs to remember his first job is to defend
I don't like apologies on Twitter. It reminds me of all the rallying cries from Allan Evans on the back page of the Evening Mail in the Turner/McNeil period.
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Luna was fuckin awful yesterday, he apologized on twitter but fuck me he needs to remember his first job is to defend
No he wasn't great but the midfield three in front of him not closing down when they needed to didn't help the defence at all yesterday.
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The players he's spend reasonable outlay on like benteke, Vlaar and okore are all internationals and decent signings - but it's the cheap £1 bargain basement stuff that he's bought too much of - bacuna, kea, Bowery, Lowton , Westwood, luna, Bennett, etc - one or two may come off but not often when you are signing players at such low prices.
I wouldn't be putting Bacuna in that bracket. He's been shifted round the pitch a lot this season and he's only been here a few months, as with Luna who's picked up a few niggly injuries along the way. Lowton and Westwood are finding it tougher this time round though.
I agree, as I said one or two will come off as hopefully bacuna will prove but if you buy 7 or 8 players for around a million then the majority will usually be average at best.
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Luna was fuckin awful yesterday, he apologized on twitter but fuck me he needs to remember his first job is to defend
No he wasn't great but the midfield three in front of him not closing down when they needed to didn't help the defence at all yesterday.
Agreed but watch the first goal he was nowhere to be seen
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I voted in. Are the shake it all about crowd waiting for the next few games and any transfer window activity? It would be interesting to hear which way they would go if there wasn't that option in the poll.
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Luna was fuckin awful yesterday, he apologized on twitter but fuck me he needs to remember his first job is to defend
No he wasn't great but the midfield three in front of him not closing down when they needed to didn't help the defence at all yesterday.
Agreed but watch the first goal he was nowhere to be seen
I'll have a look again, i've not seen it back since.
One thing I did notice yesterday (and at Fulham last week) was that our left back was playing quite a way forward, almost as a wide midfielder at times. Not sure if this is a tactic but it's not working.
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Well Robbie Savage's analysis of our issues is pretty bang on, so I wonder why Lambert doesn't appear to see the issue.
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Well if he does go, there's a new option for his replacement - Villas Boas might make a good Villa Boss!
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Well Robbie Savage's analysis of our issues is pretty bang on, so I wonder why Lambert doesn't appear to see the issue.
Savage says we need to keep more possession so should go 4-4-2, which is like recommending protecting your eyes by taking off your sunglasses.
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Perhaps what AVB needs is an environment with a little less pressure and scrutiny, and time to build something. He might need a little money, though.
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I think AVB is a better manager than Lambert and, personally, I feel closer to his style of football than our Obmal's. However, that's not how football works. It's not a video game, where you replace a character with decent stats for one with better stats. There's loyalty, the implementation of long-term plans, the feeling of stability. We need to remember we live in the real world.
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Well Robbie Savage's analysis of our issues is pretty bang on, so I wonder why Lambert doesn't appear to see the issue.
Savage says we need to keep more possession so should go 4-4-2, which is like recommending protecting your eyes by taking off your sunglasses.
Not necassarily, I don't think 4-4-2 will work but we do need to change something.
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Perhaps what AVB needs is an environment with a little less pressure and scrutiny, and time to build something. He might need a little money, though.
Someone on Facebook has posted AVB has been sacked.
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Well Robbie Savage's analysis of our issues is pretty bang on, so I wonder why Lambert doesn't appear to see the issue.
Savage says we need to keep more possession so should go 4-4-2, which is like recommending protecting your eyes by taking off your sunglasses.
Not necassarily, I don't think 4-4-2 will work but we do need to change something.
A change of something is obvious, but the suggestion of 4-4-2 is clearly wrong.
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Perhaps what AVB needs is an environment with a little less pressure and scrutiny, and time to build something. He might need a little money, though.
He should have been given time to let all those players he bought in gel. One thing I didn't get though is why he didn't play Christian Eriksen more often. He's a cracking player.
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I think AVB is a better manager than Lambert and, personally, I feel closer to his style of football than our Obmal's. However, that's not how football works. It's not a video game, where you replace a character with decent stats for one with better stats. There's loyalty, the implementation of long-term plans, the feeling of stability. We need to remember we live in the real world.
That's exactly how football works. See Man City, Chelsea, and now, Tottenham. I'm not suggesting we go down that path, because we're not in the same world as any of those clubs. I think we're well down the runway with Lambert and we're either going to take off or crash and burn.
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I think AVB is a better manager than Lambert and, personally, I feel closer to his style of football than our Obmal's. However, that's not how football works. It's not a video game, where you replace a character with decent stats for one with better stats. There's loyalty, the implementation of long-term plans, the feeling of stability. We need to remember we live in the real world.
That's exactly how football works. See Man City, Chelsea, and now, Tottenham. I'm not suggesting we go down that path, because we're not in the same world as any of those clubs. I think we're well down the runway with Lambert and we're either going to take off or crash and burn.
How much more runway does he need?
we are like one the guys in those magnificent men in there flying machines titles, with our arms made to look like wings and we run around flapping them hoping we will take off
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Perhaps what AVB needs is an environment with a little less pressure and scrutiny, and time to build something. He might need a little money, though.
Someone on Facebook has posted AVB has been sacked.
On the Beeb site now.
I'd have AVB in a heart beat.
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I think AVB is a better manager than Lambert and, personally, I feel closer to his style of football than our Obmal's. However, that's not how football works. It's not a video game, where you replace a character with decent stats for one with better stats. There's loyalty, the implementation of long-term plans, the feeling of stability. We need to remember we live in the real world.
That's exactly how football works. See Man City, Chelsea, and now, Tottenham. I'm not suggesting we go down that path, because we're not in the same world as any of those clubs. I think we're well down the runway with Lambert and we're either going to take off or crash and burn.
If you have infinite money and existingly brilliant squads of players who just need a kick up the arse, then fine, go nuts. We're not in that position. How well would Everton have done over the last decade had they just sacked Moyes when things didn't look to good for a moment? After ten years it was probably time for them to both move on, but I don't think the move came too late or was overdue. We're in their position, not Spurs' or Chelsea's.
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Well Robbie Savage's analysis of our issues is pretty bang on, so I wonder why Lambert doesn't appear to see the issue.
Savage says we need to keep more possession so should go 4-4-2, which is like recommending protecting your eyes by taking off your sunglasses.
Not necassarily, I don't think 4-4-2 will work but we do need to change something.
A change of something is obvious, but the suggestion of 4-4-2 is clearly wrong.
I'd go for a 4-4-1-1. I think we need two banks of 4 to help protect our fullbacks, but also get some width on both sides. We're incapable of playing good football at the moment in any case, so I'd revert to the O Neill way and try and utilise the flanks and our pace. I'd play Weimann off Kozak or Benteke (Kozak at the moment).
For me, if we play a 3 man mid, there's very little point if one of them is KEA. You may as well just play with two.
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'Two banks of four' makes us a defensive and boring side. That will happen, there's no way round it with our players especially. I agree on the deficiencies of KEA, but three in midfield and advanced wide forwards is the only way.
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Perhaps what AVB needs is an environment with a little less pressure and scrutiny, and time to build something. He might need a little money, though.
Someone on Facebook has posted AVB has been sacked.
On the Beeb site now.
I'd have AVB in a heart beat.
Seriously? I think he deserved more time at Chelsea and Spurs but someone who, in the time given, underachieved at those clubs doesn't strike me as someone who would do great at Villa in the present circumstances.
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'Two banks of four' makes us a defensive and boring side. That will happen, there's no way round it with our players especially. I agree on the deficiencies of KEA, but three in midfield and advanced wide forwards is the only way.
We're boring and defensive whichever way we look at it sadly, for want of better players. I certainly think our fullbacks need more protection. I'd certainly like to see Weimann up through the middle making runs beyond one of the big men.
I think our best bet for scoring goals at the minute is getting delivery in from wide. There's no one who has the guile in central areas to unlock defences.
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Perhaps what AVB needs is an environment with a little less pressure and scrutiny, and time to build something. He might need a little money, though.
Someone on Facebook has posted AVB has been sacked.
On the Beeb site now.
I'd have AVB in a heart beat.
Seriously? I think he deserved more time at Chelsea and Spurs but someone who, in the time given, underachieved at those clubs doesn't strike me as someone who would do great at Villa in the present circumstances.
If for no other reason than I'm sure he'd insist on the funds to sort out our horrible defence.
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I think AVB is a better manager than Lambert and, personally, I feel closer to his style of football than our Obmal's. However, that's not how football works. It's not a video game, where you replace a character with decent stats for one with better stats. There's loyalty, the implementation of long-term plans, the feeling of stability. We need to remember we live in the real world.
That's exactly how football works. See Man City, Chelsea, and now, Tottenham. I'm not suggesting we go down that path, because we're not in the same world as any of those clubs. I think we're well down the runway with Lambert and we're either going to take off or crash and burn.
If you have infinite money and existingly brilliant squads of players who just need a kick up the arse, then fine, go nuts. We're not in that position. How well would Everton have done over the last decade had they just sacked Moyes when things didn't look to good for a moment? After ten years it was probably time for them to both move on, but I don't think the move came too late or was overdue. We're in their position, not Spurs' or Chelsea's.
Like I said, we're not in the same world as Man City, Chelsea or Tottenham. But then Southampton must be in another world too. West Brom. Fulham. It's what happens in football - managers get sacked and replaced because of results - us and Everton are in a minority.
I think we should and will stick with what we've got. I'd like to see Lambert given the chance to pay proper wages to suitable experienced pros, but that isn't going to happen, so our options are limited.
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Put who you like in charge of this Villa side right now, when you've got players who can't take throw ins, kick the ball to a player in the same shirt or cross the ball you'd struggle with Shankly, Mourinho or Saunders in charge.
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Put who you like in charge of this Villa side right now, when you've got players who can't take throw ins, kick the ball to a player in the same shirt or cross the ball you'd struggle with Shankly, Mourinho or Saunders in charge.
True but who bought most of those players?
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Well Robbie Savage's analysis of our issues is pretty bang on, so I wonder why Lambert doesn't appear to see the issue.
Savage says we need to keep more possession so should go 4-4-2, which is like recommending protecting your eyes by taking off your sunglasses.
Not necassarily, I don't think 4-4-2 will work but we do need to change something.
A change of something is obvious, but the suggestion of 4-4-2 is clearly wrong.
I'd go for a 4-4-1-1. I think we need two banks of 4 to help protect our fullbacks, but also get some width on both sides. We're incapable of playing good football at the moment in any case, so I'd revert to the O Neill way and try and utilise the flanks and our pace. I'd play Weimann off Kozak or Benteke (Kozak at the moment).
For me, if we play a 3 man mid, there's very little point if one of them is KEA. You may as well just play with two.
The formation is largely irrelevant to our current problems. Aside from injuries and the form of key players (which are a factor) the biggest issue is that our players are too static. Yesterday there was a great example where Alby picked it up on halfway, beat his man, cut inside, looked up and there was no one there. Benteke was at the edge of the box, Gabby was right over the other side and far too deep and Sylla and KEA were seemingly having a chat with Luna and Lowton (respectively) and Westwood was sat in front of the centre backs. We needed 2 of them in the middle moving defenders around and showing for the ball but instead they take the easy option and go to an area of the pitch where Manu were happy to let them have the ball and then just wait on the bad pass.
I believe this is due to them not having the confidence to take the pass whilst they're marked, so they move to positions where they're not marked and think that counts as them making themselves available.
I don't mind 1 midfielder doing it, an out ball is a good idea and it makes us more solid if we lose possession but having all 3 take themselves out of the game just doesn't work.
I've said no to sacking Lambert because I think if he can fix this we've still got it in us to be a much better side than we've shown, but he really needs to work on it because you can't win regularly with a midfield that doesn't want the ball. If we haven't fixed it by the start of Jan I'll consider changing my opinion but I'd rather give him a little time first.
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Put who you like in charge of this Villa side right now, when you've got players who can't take throw ins, kick the ball to a player in the same shirt or cross the ball you'd struggle with Shankly, Mourinho or Saunders in charge.
I think a bit of organisation and some sort of game plan behind them and all the schoolgirl errors would be cut out. Honestly, any footballer who's a professional, no matter if he's French second division, in the Polish division, or signed from League 2, should be able to take a proper thrown in or pass the ball 5 yards to a team mate.
Our players are going out looking like headless chickens. Lots of running but no composure or organisation. If a better manager sends them out with a clue of what they're doing, then they'll look twice as good right off the bat. We won't turn into Arsenal granted, but we need to get the basics better. The fact we've been so inept for months is down to one man unfortunately.
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Perhaps what AVB needs is an environment with a little less pressure and scrutiny, and time to build something. He might need a little money, though.
Someone on Facebook has posted AVB has been sacked.
On the Beeb site now.
I'd have AVB in a heart beat.
Seriously? I think he deserved more time at Chelsea and Spurs but someone who, in the time given, underachieved at those clubs doesn't strike me as someone who would do great at Villa in the present circumstances.
If for no other reason than I'm sure he'd insist on the funds to sort out our horrible defence.
He took over a Spurs squad in the summer which I would suggest was a little bit better than ours, spent £120 million quid and got 8 more points this season than Lambert.
Sorry, he didn't take over in the summer but I stand by the comparison of what he has done compared to Lambert comparing the starting point and then money spent in the summer.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
I agree.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
That's the way to destroy a young player's confidence. It's what we suffered with last season and it won't help us this time around. We need PL standard experienced professionals alongside our emerging talent, to protect and to guide them. We're crying out for leadership, as the absence of Vlaar has demonstrated.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
I agree.
Really? I don't doubt their ability, but I do doubt their ability to understand just what it is they're meant to be doing in that Villa side right now. We can't get even the basics right, you can't throw untried, untested youth into this now, we learned that last season. Lambert bought most of these players, it's well and truly his team, he alone needs to fix this and he needs to do it quickly.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
I agree.
Really? I don't doubt their ability, but I do doubt their ability to understand just what it is they're meant to be doing in that Villa side right now. We can't get even the basics right, you can't throw untried, untested youth into this now, we learned that last season. Lambert bought most of these players, it's well and truly his team, he alone needs to fix this and he needs to do it quickly.
Can you honestly say that the majority of players in the Villa team know what they're meant to be doing?!?!?!
Nobody seems to know.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
That's the way to destroy a young player's confidence. It's what we suffered with last season and it won't help us this time around. We need PL standard experienced professionals alongside our emerging talent, to protect and to guide them. We're crying out for leadership, as the absence of Vlaar has demonstrated.
Yeah but our whole squad is young. We may as well play a few more of our own academy players, particularly some of our midfielders and attackers who have a bit of guile.
We do need more signings but I'd rather see players like Carruthers, Johnson and Grealish over Tonev, KEA and Bowery for example.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
That's the way to destroy a young player's confidence. It's what we suffered with last season and it won't help us this time around. We need PL standard experienced professionals alongside our emerging talent, to protect and to guide them. We're crying out for leadership, as the absence of Vlaar has demonstrated.
I take your point to a point but where I differ is that I'd like to be given the role of administering a kick in the bollocks to any player who when they fuck up resulting in a goal to the opposition they make out they are injured as if that was the reason for their stupid misplaced pass.
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Give it to Guzan whilst Vlaar is out.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
That's the way to destroy a young player's confidence. It's what we suffered with last season and it won't help us this time around. We need PL standard experienced professionals alongside our emerging talent, to protect and to guide them. We're crying out for leadership, as the absence of Vlaar has demonstrated.
Absolutely. Vlaar this season is massive for us. As Barry would have been in midfield. I'm not suggesting we become a retirement home like Fulham but one or two experienced players in January would be a big boost.
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Time for the likes of Gardner, Robinson, Grealish, Johnson and Donancien to be given a chance in my opinion. They can be no worse at all then KEA, Sylla etc
That's the way to destroy a young player's confidence. It's what we suffered with last season and it won't help us this time around. We need PL standard experienced professionals alongside our emerging talent, to protect and to guide them. We're crying out for leadership, as the absence of Vlaar has demonstrated.
Yeah but our whole squad is young. We may as well play a few more of our own academy players, particularly some of our midfielders and attackers who have a bit of guile.
We do need more signings but I'd rather see players like Carruthers, Johnson and Grealish over Tonev, KEA and Bowery for example.
agree
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According to Lambert experience brings high wages
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According to Lambert experience brings high wages
I'm not convinced, especially with the loan deals you can do (Wayne bridge where Brighton paid about 10% and I'm not convinced Stoke, Boro and Fulham are paying 100% of Ireland, Given and Bent's wages) that a Gareth Barry or Joleon Lescott will cost you £100,000 a week and I'm also not convinced that all our our cheap and cheerful recent signings are all on £10,000 a week.
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According to Lambert experience brings high wages
It depends what we constitute high wages I guess. We could find players with experience and ability for 30k a week if we looked hard enough. But is that too much? It's chicken feed in this league though. We got Vlaar here though. He must be on around 30 grand I'd have thought.
With Ireland, Bent, Hutton and Given all but gone, those wages need to be re-invested in more quality and more experience. That's if Randy wants to have a Premiership club in the long term. If he can't get us competing financially with West Brom, he may as well sell up.
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Put who you like in charge of this Villa side right now, when you've got players who can't take throw ins, kick the ball to a player in the same shirt or cross the ball you'd struggle with Shankly, Mourinho or Saunders in charge.
I think a bit of organisation and some sort of game plan behind them and all the schoolgirl errors would be cut out. Honestly, any footballer who's a professional, no matter if he's French second division, in the Polish division, or signed from League 2, should be able to take a proper thrown in or pass the ball 5 yards to a team mate.
Our players are going out looking like headless chickens. Lots of running but no composure or organisation. If a better manager sends them out with a clue of what they're doing, then they'll look twice as good right off the bat. We won't turn into Arsenal granted, but we need to get the basics better. The fact we've been so inept for months is down to one man unfortunately.
Agree wholeheatedly, Supertom.
It's so easy to say all the players are crap but we know from glimpses that's not the case. It seems obvious they haven't got a clue what they're supposed to be doing other than get rid of the ball as fast as possible. I mentioned a few months ago that we seem to believe the headlines that we're solely a counter attacking team. We're not even that. Right now we're a team without a plan.
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According to Lambert experience brings high wages
I'm not convinced, especially with the loan deals you can do (Wayne bridge where Brighton paid about 10% and I'm not convinced Stoke, Boro and Fulham are paying 100% of Ireland, Given and Bent's wages) that a Gareth Barry or Joleon Lescott will cost you £100,000 a week and I'm also not convinced that all our our cheap and cheerful recent signings are all on £10,000 a week.
I don't think Everton will be paying anywhere near 100k a week for Barry either. Maybe they're paying half his wage at a push. City can afford to do that though, so we should certainly be considering the possibility of Lescott and/or Rodwell.
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It's always been reported that Everton have had to be very careful, financially. So, no - I can't see that they'd be paying Barry a fortune.
Anyway, original question. Not as upset about it as I would have been six weeks ago. Beginning to get very frustrated with how we're set up, and consequently playing.
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It's not as if he hasn't had any cash and in the best MON-ism he now has a growing collection of players that seem to be surplus to the squad.... Bennett, Helenius, Bowery you can add the group of players he has totally de-valued (Bent, Given and Hutton) to that little group.
Bennet is injured, Helenius is only a youngster and might yet come good, Bent seemed to have given up, Given is old enough to be my dad and Hutton is just wank.
That leaves Bowery (bought for next to fuck all) out of your list.
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It wouldn't really bother me if PL went; take the home form - 8 matches played, 5 defeats, 2 wins, and 1 lucky draw against Sunderland. 7 points from 24 is a disgrace. Only 6 goals scored in 8 matches with 12 conceded. Failed to score in 5 of those matches. Shocking stats - and to think mugs like me bought a season-ticket, hardly entertaining and value for money is it?
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There is no such thing as luck.
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There is no such thing as luck.
Of course there is !
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No, there really isn't.
Ascribing events to a supernatural force, who shapes matters one way or the other is nonsensical. Beseech Fortuna all you like. She's not real and she cannot hear you.
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Luck is just another word for randomness, chance. And it obviously plays a significant part in the outcome of individual games, or the pools coupon would be a piece of piss to fill in every week.
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No, there really isn't.
Ascribing events to a supernatural force, who shapes matters one way or the other is nonsensical. Beseech Fortuna all you like. She's not real and she cannot hear you.
There's certainly an element of fortune when opposition strikers miss open goals, or you win two games in a season 3-2 with 30% possession and 3 shots on target in each game. Things like that aren't the norm. To some extent as well, you make your own luck as a side, but we've been playing a dangerous game for a few months now. Carry on like we are and we're more likely to see our form and comfortable mid-table position drop.
We average about 3 shots on target every game, and comfortably under 50% possession. There is of course only one stat that matters come the end, but get more shots on goal, and a lions share of the ball and chances are the important stat improves. Likewise, keep on playing like we are and we'll find ourselves desperately trying to get to 40 points again come the arse end of April.
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It's always been reported that Everton have had to be very careful, financially. So, no - I can't see that they'd be paying Barry a fortune.
Anyway, original question. Not as upset about it as I would have been six weeks ago. Beginning to get very frustrated with how we're set up, and consequently playing.
Statements in same order as above:
1, Everton have just received a significant sum of money for the be-afro Belgian and taken his, not insubstantial wages off the books, so an outlay on Barry's wages wouldn't be unimaginable.
2, I cannot see that changing manager at this stage of the season is going to do anything but create instabilty. Who, for one thing, are we gong to replace hm with. An alternative would need to be set in stone before Lambert was relieved of his responsibilities. We have seen before that the choice of replacement coach has not always been one driven by the footballing ideals held by this great club we are privileged to support, nor indeed our own as fans.
Another period of wandering in the wilderness and yet another period of "transition" would, I feel, only damage the young squad that is being built, I think we must commit to a couple more seasons of ups and downs and try to be a club that can stand strong with it's convictions and carry through this remodelling which, as can be seen in Germany, can bear fruits.
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My biggest worry with Lambert is that I can see him having a similar month of inactivity in the transfer market next month as last january, purely because it worked out ok for him then. There are serious deficiencies in the squad, ones that I don't believe can be fixed by existing squad members. I fear that lambert's stubbornness may stop him from addressing them.
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One thing I miss is a midfielder who gets the ball and runs forward with it. All our three did yesterday was just lay it off to the nearest player. Albrighton did at least try and make something happen yesterday, even at 3-0 down.
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My biggest worry with Lambert is that I can see him having a similar month of inactivity in the transfer market next month as last january, purely because it worked out ok for him then. There are serious deficiencies in the squad, ones that I don't believe can be fixed by existing squad members. I fear that lambert's stubbornness may stop him from addressing them.
Ideal world we have someone decent coming in on Jan 1st.
Won't happen though.
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This is Lamberts 4th transfer window fast approaching, he cant keep ignoring what everyone else can see, signing more Jordan Bowery's isn't the answer, in fact what was the question if Bowery was the answer? Anyone?
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Too early to pull the trigger for me. It would do more harm than good. I will explain why I think that is the case in the next H+V.
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in fact what was the question if Bowery was the answer? Anyone?
What is the easiest way to waste £500k?
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I'm perplexed really with Lambert and Learner.
I get getting rid of the high end earners who are not contributing to the squad angle and the fact we need to build a younger team but as Hansen said "you will never win anything with kids" and he was right.
Surely its about having a balanced squad with plenty of youngsters coming through not replacing the whole team with youngsters. We are crying out for an experienced head in midfield and although we are not spending big money we seemed to then spend a fair chunk on a striker that we were not as desperate for!
Despite my reservations I did vote for Lambert to stay as I want some kind of continuity, but I think my patience is wearing thin and if we haven't improved next season or at least addressed the issues that are blatantly obvious then some big changes need to be made and that's not just not at the managerial level.
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Every window up until this one he's been filling gaps in the squad to give us cover in every position and a decent sized squad. I can't really see any need for another window of that sort, instead Jan and next summer should be about picking up 1-2 players who come in and improve the best 11. A midfielder who can play between the lines (some will call this a 10 but I think we need some one playing a little deeper than that) is top of that list. I think getting the right player in that role could be the key to us progressing from where we are and, importantly, give us the ability to open teams up at home.
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Well, I voted for him to stay. We've regressed a bit during the past few games, but given the massive squad over haul we've had and only being one and a third seasons into his tenure, it's hard to say whether this is the norm or a bad patch of form. We were certainly worse than this last season, but managed to turn it around.
In the interests of balance, here's a few things he needs to fix:-
1. Benteke's form. There was a large criticism levelled at MON for not having a Plan B, but we're equally devoid of ideas when Big Ben isn't at it.
2. Longterm, a number 10 player to give us that Plan B.
3. If the combination of Clark and Baker can't function without Vlaar, then move one of them on and bring in a more experienced reserve.
4. Get our FBs better at defending. Man Utd targeted Luna on Sunday and that won them the game.
5. Under MON, I remember someone saying that when we lost a game, everybody avoided him for a few days as he was in a foul mood. It's a trait you can see being common in top managers like Mourinho and Ferguson. I believe a football team takes on their manager's traits, so I'm not sure losing hurts this punch enough. When they get back into training, will it be much different to what would happen after a win? I think he needs to get nasty with a few of them and make them want it more.
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How much has Lambert spent since he arrived? Anyone got a rough idea of the total?
I am guessing it is over £40m. Wish he had bough 5-6 players with that rather than the dross he has
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How much has Lambert spent since he arrived? Anyone got a rough idea of the total?
I am guessing it is over £40m. Wish he had bough 5-6 players with that rather than the dross he has
£43m as confirmed by both Faulkner and the accounts. Certainly not pidgeon feed and a bit more than Lambert would have you believe.
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How much has Lambert spent since he arrived? Anyone got a rough idea of the total?
I am guessing it is over £40m. Wish he had bough 5-6 players with that rather than the dross he has
£43m as confirmed by both Faulkner and the accounts. Certainly not pidgeon feed and a bit more than Lambert would have you believe.
What pisses me off is that I believe a good % of that, probably a 3rd, has gone on dross that we could have supplemented from our own youth policy.
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
That's one issue I had with the summer dealings - very few of them improved on the team that finished last season for us.
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One thing I miss is a midfielder who gets the ball and runs forward with it. All our three did yesterday was just lay it off to the nearest player. Albrighton did at least try and make something happen yesterday, even at 3-0 down.
Or heaven forbid.. a midfielder getting in front of the ball when we are in the last third of the pitch.
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One thing I miss is a midfielder who gets the ball and runs forward with it. All our three did yesterday was just lay it off to the nearest player. Albrighton did at least try and make something happen yesterday, even at 3-0 down.
Or heaven forbid.. a midfielder getting in front of the ball when we are in the last third of the pitch.
I think we have that in Delph, but I think his forward instincts are restricted by a lack of confidence in what's behind him.
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
Helenius, Tonev, Sylla, El Ahamadi, Bowery, Kozak, Luna add the square root of nothing. There's at least £16m quid there that could have been spent better on a smaller amount of players. If we play young donkeys we might aswell use our young free donkeys rather than £16m quids worth of other teams donkeys.
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I love it when Delph goes on one of his runs with the ball, I just wish he'd do it more than once or twice a game at most. We do seem to have a problem at times with players in the box though, which is a bit of a hindrance to a counter attacking side if you break down the wings and no fucker is in the box.
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Every window up until this one he's been filling gaps in the squad to give us cover in every position and a decent sized squad. I can't really see any need for another window of that sort, instead Jan and next summer should be about picking up 1-2 players who come in and improve the best 11. A midfielder who can play between the lines (some will call this a 10 but I think we need some one playing a little deeper than that) is top of that list. I think getting the right player in that role could be the key to us progressing from where we are and, importantly, give us the ability to open teams up at home.
I agree that we should now be looking to bring in players to improve the XI, not the squad. My only concern is will Lambert know what to do with them? It's as though he's bought players in without thinking what they can actually do should he need them. I'm sure there's some speculation on his side as to given time they'll be very useful but like every team, we suffer injuries and need the full squad to be ready to step up. He simply doesn't have the luxury of bringing them in slowly. Tactically he looks clueless which is something I never expected from him. I always had him down as a thinking man's MON. Right now it's difficult to spot the difference.
He really needs to focus on what we do at Bodymoor Heath and get a well drilled squad together where we can seamlessly bring in a player and maintain our shape rather than the disjointed shambles we've seen for most of this season who look like they met 5 minutes before kick off. He still has my support, just. It shouldn't be too difficult to improve this side providing they know what they're supposed to be doing. Whilst accepting it does take time to get a team to gell, the fact we are so poor and actually seem to be getting worse despite a couple of decent results, gives me little faith he can actually turn it around.
I hope I'm wrong but I think we'll know more about Lambert in 5 or 6 weeks time. Some great home performances will most certainly help his case of convincing me he's the right man for the job.
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One thing I miss is a midfielder who gets the ball and runs forward with it. All our three did yesterday was just lay it off to the nearest player. Albrighton did at least try and make something happen yesterday, even at 3-0 down.
Or heaven forbid.. a midfielder getting in front of the ball when we are in the last third of the pitch.
I think we have that in Delph, but I think his forward instincts are restricted by a lack of confidence in what's behind him.
This is the issue isint it, would you be happy attacking a defence in the knowledge that if you lose it El Ahamadi and Westwood will be able to get it back again? I think Westwood probably okay but not in the same team as El Ahamadi, he need quality next to him.
We need a hard working midfielder that will get stuck in and just let the other two play. Delph for me seems to doing all the midfield tasks himself he gets his foot in and carries the ball as well.
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Aside from player recruitment which I think he has shown to have wasted money one of the areas we dont seem to have any plan on is set pieces. It revolves around a speculative chip by Westwood whetehr from the elft or the right. No variety whatsoever. What coaching are they doing? We spent more money recruitign addiitonal members of the coahcing team in the summer and seem to have regressed from how we were olaying at the end of last season.
Ball retention seems to have gone out the window completely.
Despite all this I still support him and dont suggest we change manager again but he needs to pull his finger out, stop being pig-headed and not buying experienced quality and play some decent football.
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If we was offered Sissokho, and we turned him down, then that policy is looking more stupid by the day.He is exactly the kind of player we need, and he was on a free transfer, and he is what 24?
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How much has Lambert spent since he arrived? Anyone got a rough idea of the total?
I am guessing it is over £40m. Wish he had bough 5-6 players with that rather than the dross he has
£43m as confirmed by both Faulkner and the accounts. Certainly not pidgeon feed and a bit more than Lambert would have you believe.
It needs to be put into context;
£43m split over 15 players to completely rebuild a squad, with the bulk spent on Kozak and Benteke and in comparison to what our peers have had to spend (i.e. us being perhaps the only club to completely start anew) then I think it is a very small amount.
We used to spend more on a new back four every summer, which is one of the reasons why we have had to modify our spending.
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
Helenius, Tonev, Sylla, El Ahamadi, Bowery, Kozak, Luna add the square root of nothing. There's at least £16m quid there that could have been spent better on a smaller amount of players. If we play young donkeys we might aswell use our young free donkeys rather than £16m quids worth of other teams donkeys.
Kozak has contributed at least four points this season. The useless fucking donkey.
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I like Kozak.
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I like Kozak.
So do I. His movement is excellent in the box. If we had a number ten in behind him to feed the right balls to him, then he would score a boat load. He doesn't have Benteke or Gabbys pace, so its vital the midfield get up and support him oh, and stop lumping balls into him, that would also help.
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We need two very solid players this January that will not only boost the playing ability of the squad but boost the morale around the place and the fans. Let's say it was Young and Lescott, irrespective of what people's personal opinion on either might be they exactly the senior type players we'll be pissed off if they go to a club like an Everton or worse someone in or around us. I'm supporting Lambert's overall strategy but he needs to relax a little on it being the only strategy. Wages spent on proper motivated experienced talent which I believe both would be will comfortably separate us from the bottom 7 or 8 clubs and with a bit of luck push us even further up.
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
Helenius, Tonev, Sylla, El Ahamadi, Bowery, Kozak, Luna add the square root of nothing. There's at least £16m quid there that could have been spent better on a smaller amount of players. If we play young donkeys we might aswell use our young free donkeys rather than £16m quids worth of other teams donkeys.
Kozak has contributed at least four points this season. The useless fucking donkey.
But the £7m on him was a waste, it was much more badly needed elsewhere. I appreciate he's scored the 3 goals but in a sense to me he's the right player at the wrong time maybe.
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Its not wasted. We got the player the manager wanted, we just didn't get the other player the manager wanted to go with him.
And while I don't think £7 million is a lot for a striker, much like Benteke, that fee is inflated.
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We need two very solid players this January that will not only boost the playing ability of the squad but boost the morale around the place and the fans. Let's say it was Young and Lescott, irrespective of what people's personal opinion on either might be they exactly the senior type players we'll be pissed off if they go to a club like an Everton or worse someone in or around us. I'm supporting Lambert's overall strategy but he needs to relax a little on it being the only strategy. Wages spent on proper motivated experienced talent which I believe both would be will comfortably separate us from the bottom 7 or 8 clubs and with a bit of luck push us even further up.
I think we'll stay relatively clear of the relegation scrap this season anyway, but totally agree with bringing the likes of Young and/or Lescott in.
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
Helenius, Tonev, Sylla, El Ahamadi, Bowery, Kozak, Luna add the square root of nothing. There's at least £16m quid there that could have been spent better on a smaller amount of players. If we play young donkeys we might aswell use our young free donkeys rather than £16m quids worth of other teams donkeys.
Kozak has contributed at least four points this season. The useless fucking donkey.
Well 9 points seeing as he scored in the wins against Norwich, Cardiff and Southampton.
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Its not wasted. We got the player the manager wanted, we just didn't get the other player the manager wanted to go with him.
And while I don't think £7 million is a lot for a striker, much like Benteke, that fee is inflated.
The players he has spent a decent wedge on look the business - benteke, Vlaar, Kozak, okore, all current internationals and decent signings - the problem is he has bought a lot of bargain basement £1m signings to supplement them with .
If he spend £4m plus on a player it is generally a decent player he brings in .
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
Helenius, Tonev, Sylla, El Ahamadi, Bowery, Kozak, Luna add the square root of nothing. There's at least £16m quid there that could have been spent better on a smaller amount of players. If we play young donkeys we might aswell use our young free donkeys rather than £16m quids worth of other teams donkeys.
Kozak has contributed at least four points this season. The useless fucking donkey.
Well 9 points seeing as he scored in the wins against Norwich, Cardiff and Southampton.
And don't forget - don't write him off ;-)
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
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Its not wasted. We got the player the manager wanted, we just didn't get the other player the manager wanted to go with him.
And while I don't think £7 million is a lot for a striker, much like Benteke, that fee is inflated.
The players he has spent a decent wedge on look the business - benteke, Vlaar, Kozak, okore, all current internationals and decent signings - the problem is he has bought a lot of bargain basement £1m signings to supplement them with .
If he spend £4m plus on a player it is generally a decent player he brings in .
That's been my opinion for a while.
If he's happy with us numbers wise, then concentrating on those players in the £5-£10m bracket should see some good improvement to the side.
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It may be a case that while he can free up room in the transfer budget, the wage constraints mean he cannot go and spend £8 million on an attacking midfielder.
There is little point to cutting back the budget to simply blow it again.
The club needs to expand its cash flow and it seems that’s what they're looking to do now, but in the immediate future clearing dead cash off the books can only be a good thing.
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It may be a case that while he can free up room in the transfer budget, the wage constraints mean he cannot go and spend £8 million on an attacking midfielder.
There is little point to cutting back the budget to simply blow it again.
The club needs to expand its cash flow and it seems that’s what they're looking to do now, but in the immediate future clearing dead cash off the books can only be a good thing.
If he can spend £7m on a striker then I would imagine he can spend similar at least on a midfielder - wages have been cut back a lot and we have the new tv deal too - I'm hoping he knows who he wants and is waiting for that player to become available although maybe more likely in the summer than in January .
What I think he does need to do is utilise the loan market and bring in a couple in January .
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I find Westwood a load of tosh, he's great at keeping the ball moving in areas that don't matter under no pressure. Lowton has a great delivery on him from deep but his positioning is poor and last season he was a target for the long diagonal ball over him.
Do you not think if he could find an international centre forward for £7m that fits our wage policy he couldn't find a midfielder too? Kozak bench warming is of little use to us whilst Sylla and Karim chase shadows.
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What I don't understand is why clearing the dead wood and lowering the wage bill means that Lambert has to play such a soul-destroying style of football
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What I don't understand is why clearing the dead wood and lowering the wage bill means that Lambert has to play such a soul-destroying style of football
We're by and large hard to beat, unless you're one of the top six and even then its not always easy. I think he is afraid that we have another six weeks like we did from December through to January and the style is reflecting that.
We know we can play a lot better, we have seen these players do it.
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
Do you not think if he could find an international centre forward for £7m that fits our wage policy he couldn't find a midfielder too?
I'm sure he could but maybe the midfielder he wanted was a lot more than £7m. He did enquire about the Japanese bloke and an enquiry is as far as it went which possibly suggests we were quoted silly money.
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What I don't understand is why clearing the dead wood and lowering the wage bill means that Lambert has to play such a soul-destroying style of football
We're by and large hard to beat, unless you're one of the top six and even then its not always easy. I think he is afraid that we have another six weeks like we did from December through to January and the style is reflecting that.
We know we can play a lot better, we have seen these players do it.
Wasnt that a Mcleish trait also - making us hard to beat ?
He needs to be made aware by the powers that be that the quality of football at villa park needs to improve vastly .
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
Do you not think if he could find an international centre forward for £7m that fits our wage policy he couldn't find a midfielder too?
I'm sure he could but maybe the midfielder he wanted was a lot more than £7m. He did enquire about the Japanese bloke and an enquiry is as far as it went which possibly suggests we were quoted silly money.
A Plan B Midfielder would have been nice. If you can't get your target A midfield Dynamo to improve probably your weakest position I would have thought that signing a 6ft 7 centre forward isn't the best back up plan.
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
Do you not think if he could find an international centre forward for £7m that fits our wage policy he couldn't find a midfielder too?
I'm sure he could but maybe the midfielder he wanted was a lot more than £7m. He did enquire about the Japanese bloke and an enquiry is as far as it went which possibly suggests we were quoted silly money.
Kiyotake.
Nuremberg are having an abysmal season, I wonder if we'll try again for him.
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
Do you not think if he could find an international centre forward for £7m that fits our wage policy he couldn't find a midfielder too?
I'm sure he could but maybe the midfielder he wanted was a lot more than £7m. He did enquire about the Japanese bloke and an enquiry is as far as it went which possibly suggests we were quoted silly money.
A Plan B Midfielder would have been nice. If you can't get your target A midfield Dynamo to improve probably your weakest position I would have thought that signing a 6ft 7 centre forward isn't the best back up plan.
It wasn't a back up plan, he'd been tracking him for months.
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I think a lot of the people who have a pop at Kozak aren't criticising him for who he is, they're doing it for who he isn't - ie they'd have rather the money was spent elsewhere where it was really needed than on a striker, so take it out on him.
I'm not totally convinced by him yet, but it strikes me that he's scored a few goals so has done at least enough to still be in consideration.
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
Or you get relegated :)
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I think a lot of the people who have a pop at Kozak aren't criticising him for who he is, they're doing it for who he isn't - ie they'd have rather the money was spent elsewhere where it was really needed than on a striker, so take it out on him.
I'm not totally convinced by him yet, but it strikes me that he's scored a few goals so has done at least enough to still be in consideration.
I agree and to me he seems to be a player that would thrive on crosses coming in from wide which isint how we are normally set-up. If Albrighton can keep up the sort of level that we have seen in glimpses then he would be the perfect outlet and creator for someone like Benteke and Kozak.
At home I would like to see Benteke/Kozak upfront with Weimann just behind, Gabby left wing and Albrighton right.
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Lowton is a good player going forward, but defensively he hasn't learnt at all and is still very poor.
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I think a lot of the people who have a pop at Kozak aren't criticising him for who he is, they're doing it for who he isn't - ie they'd have rather the money was spent elsewhere where it was really needed than on a striker, so take it out on him.
I'm not totally convinced by him yet, but it strikes me that he's scored a few goals so has done at least enough to still be in consideration.
I agree and to me he seems to be a player that would thrive on crosses coming in from wide which isint how we are normally set-up. If Albrighton can keep up the sort of level that we have seen in glimpses then he would be the perfect outlet and creator for someone like Benteke and Kozak.
At home I would like to see Benteke/Kozak upfront with Weimann just behind, Gabby left wing and Albrighton right.
Agreed but for me it would be benteke Kozak and albrighton given a run in the front 3 places, with gabby as an impact sub .
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
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I think a lot of the people who have a pop at Kozak aren't criticising him for who he is, they're doing it for who he isn't - ie they'd have rather the money was spent elsewhere where it was really needed than on a striker, so take it out on him.
I'm not totally convinced by him yet, but it strikes me that he's scored a few goals so has done at least enough to still be in consideration.
I agree and to me he seems to be a player that would thrive on crosses coming in from wide which isint how we are normally set-up. If Albrighton can keep up the sort of level that we have seen in glimpses then he would be the perfect outlet and creator for someone like Benteke and Kozak.
At home I would like to see Benteke/Kozak upfront with Weimann just behind, Gabby left wing and Albrighton right.
Agreed but for me it would be benteke Kozak and albrighton given a run in the front 3 places, with gabby as an impact sub .
You think Benteke and Kozak can play in the same team though? I'm not sure myself.
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
Do you not think if he could find an international centre forward for £7m that fits our wage policy he couldn't find a midfielder too?
I'm sure he could but maybe the midfielder he wanted was a lot more than £7m. He did enquire about the Japanese bloke and an enquiry is as far as it went which possibly suggests we were quoted silly money.
A Plan B Midfielder would have been nice. If you can't get your target A midfield Dynamo to improve probably your weakest position I would have thought that signing a 6ft 7 centre forward isn't the best back up plan.
It wasn't a back up plan, he'd been tracking him for months.
So he had no back up to not getting the midfielder we've badly needed since last January's window when we were underwhelmed by Sylla? It was Kiyotake or nobody?
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I think a lot of the people who have a pop at Kozak aren't criticising him for who he is, they're doing it for who he isn't - ie they'd have rather the money was spent elsewhere where it was really needed than on a striker, so take it out on him.
I'm not totally convinced by him yet, but it strikes me that he's scored a few goals so has done at least enough to still be in consideration.
I agree and to me he seems to be a player that would thrive on crosses coming in from wide which isint how we are normally set-up. If Albrighton can keep up the sort of level that we have seen in glimpses then he would be the perfect outlet and creator for someone like Benteke and Kozak.
At home I would like to see Benteke/Kozak upfront with Weimann just behind, Gabby left wing and Albrighton right.
Agreed but for me it would be benteke Kozak and albrighton given a run in the front 3 places, with gabby as an impact sub .
You think Benteke and Kozak can play in the same team though? I'm not sure myself.
I think they are worth giving a try with albrighton providing quality service from wide - gabby and Weimann have a goal each this season , Kozak has scored more than both in far less games - I agree they can't play together without service but with the natural width of an on form albrighton they may well be a different prospect .
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You can have been as underwhelmed as you like by Sylla, but the fact is that last season he did as good a job as someone who would have cost a lot more than him.
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
Why would a manager be lucky to still have his job when his team are eleventh?
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You can have been as underwhelmed as you like by Sylla, but the fact is that last season he did as good a job as someone who would have cost a lot more than him.
And he's doing what now? Headless chicken springs to mind.
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The question has been asked of his supporters.
Let them respond to that question.
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You can have been as underwhelmed as you like by Sylla, but the fact is that last season he did as good a job as someone who would have cost a lot more than him.
And he's doing what now? Headless chicken springs to mind.
Beneteke is playing poorly now. Was he a bad buy?
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What I don't understand is why clearing the dead wood and lowering the wage bill means that Lambert has to play such a soul-destroying style of football
We're by and large hard to beat, unless you're one of the top six and even then its not always easy. I think he is afraid that we have another six weeks like we did from December through to January and the style is reflecting that.
We know we can play a lot better, we have seen these players do it.
We're by and large hard to watch, Ads. I agree with you about the players, they can play a lot better. I think you're kidding yourself if you think Lambert is afraid of us having another bad run like last season. Surely the best way to develop the team is to get them playing and winning games. Good habits breed confidence and success. Bad habits and we have so many breed the type of football we've had to suffer watching after the Chelsea game. I started to be concerned way back against bloody Rotherham and nothing since has convinced me Lambert has a game plan.
I can be as patient as the next man providing I know where it's all heading. Right now I see us having another lower half, struggling season, getting worse not better, unlike last season. If you or anybody else can explain Lambert's tactics I'd really like to hear it as I can't for the life of me see what he's trying to do.
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Were we underwhelmed by Sylla? I thought (and still think) he's fine as a dynamic presence in midfield.
Also, we've needed this midfielder for about a decade, not January, but your tirades against Lambert's poor form betray a poor long term memory.
I too thought that the money could have been better spent than on Kozak, and perhaps I still do, but I also understand that the quality of players of this type who would both improve us and like to come and play for us is very small, and so choice within this playmaker market is limited. So, if it turns out that there's only one who fits those criteria and also the other discriminations which need to be made (such as whether or not the player runs off the ball enough, or if they have or have not burned down an orphanage), and that player is not available, well, what do you do then? You have to wait. I'm fairly Konvinced that Kozak was not bought instead of a playmaker type, but that the plan is to have both.
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I think it's quite clear that Lambert is improving us and is trying to improve us in stages. So, last season we needed to get through the savage austerity the club needed to impose, and we have. The second stage was to make us less defensively porous this season, and he's had to sacrifice a bit of the fluidity of the end of last season.
Now, this is not a 100% positive prediction, but I get the feeling he was really displeased with the Fulham display and has decided it's time to to focus on our fluidity up-front, and we actually passed the ball pretty well against United, they just happen to be pretty good even when they're shit. One game is nowhere near enough to base that prediction on, and Stoke away will be very interesting with regards to this, but it did seem to be a huge change of emphasis yesterday.
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
West Brom have a worse record than us not only this season but over the calendar year.
AVB spent an absolute fortune and his team have been thumped by two of their rivals.
Watford are spiralling into oblivion now they can't have half of Serie A on loan.
We are 11th.
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
West Brom have a worse record than us not only this season but over the calendar year.
AVB spent an absolute fortune and his team have been thumped by two of their rivals.
Watford are spiralling into oblivion now they can't have half of Serie A on loan.
We are 11th.
11th? Fuck it then. I'll get the cyanide.
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The question has been asked of his supporters.
Let them respond to that question.
It's pointless. You've made your mind up. It doesn't matter what anyone says now you won't listen!
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
Why would a manager be lucky to still have his job when his team are eleventh?
Well Spurs are in 7th and have sacked their manager. They're hardly out of sight either. Granted a couple of bad results, but this is the nature of the game. AVB actually had Spurs finish on their best points haul since football began last season. He's had to bed in 100 mill worth of new players and has only been given 4 months to do that, as well as having sold their best player. I think Lamberts lucky to still be in this job, but I base that on last season around January time. A lot of chairmen would have pulled the trigger then.
I would say there's an element of fortune. Randy to me seems to be a Chairman who would only sack a manager midway through a season as an absolute last resort. That may well be a better way of doing things to be fair.
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He's not lucky to still have his job, but what he needs to do is start showing firstly that he understands we haven't been playing well for a while and secondly that he's actually going to do something to address it.
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
West Brom have a worse record than us not only this season but over the calendar year.
AVB spent an absolute fortune and his team have been thumped by two of their rivals.
Watford are spiralling into oblivion now they can't have half of Serie A on loan.
We are 11th.
Zola resigned and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him pop up at the hawthorns.
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I think a lot of the people who have a pop at Kozak aren't criticising him for who he is, they're doing it for who he isn't - ie they'd have rather the money was spent elsewhere where it was really needed than on a striker, so take it out on him.
I'm not totally convinced by him yet, but it strikes me that he's scored a few goals so has done at least enough to still be in consideration.
I agree and to me he seems to be a player that would thrive on crosses coming in from wide which isint how we are normally set-up. If Albrighton can keep up the sort of level that we have seen in glimpses then he would be the perfect outlet and creator for someone like Benteke and Kozak.
At home I would like to see Benteke/Kozak upfront with Weimann just behind, Gabby left wing and Albrighton right.
Agreed but for me it would be benteke Kozak and albrighton given a run in the front 3 places, with gabby as an impact sub .
You think Benteke and Kozak can play in the same team though? I'm not sure myself.
I think we'll see on Saturday whether they can or not.
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Then he would be £17 million over budget on trasnfers and probably a lot more over budget in wages.
Westwood and Lowton are good players. The problem is the blend just isn't right at the moment, but it takes time. Delph is an £8 million player, but its taken him a couple of years to look like it.
The less money you have, the longer things take.
Do you not think if he could find an international centre forward for £7m that fits our wage policy he couldn't find a midfielder too?
I'm sure he could but maybe the midfielder he wanted was a lot more than £7m. He did enquire about the Japanese bloke and an enquiry is as far as it went which possibly suggests we were quoted silly money.
A Plan B Midfielder would have been nice. If you can't get your target A midfield Dynamo to improve probably your weakest position I would have thought that signing a 6ft 7 centre forward isn't the best back up plan.
It wasn't a back up plan, he'd been tracking him for months.
So he had no back up to not getting the midfielder we've badly needed since last January's window when we were underwhelmed by Sylla? It was Kiyotake or nobody?
I don't know, i'm just guessing. Maybe he's got a couple in mind. The fact is that a striker he wanted became available and he went for him. I haven't got a problem with that personally.
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I think a lot of the people who have a pop at Kozak aren't criticising him for who he is, they're doing it for who he isn't - ie they'd have rather the money was spent elsewhere where it was really needed than on a striker, so take it out on him.
I'm not totally convinced by him yet, but it strikes me that he's scored a few goals so has done at least enough to still be in consideration.
I agree and to me he seems to be a player that would thrive on crosses coming in from wide which isint how we are normally set-up. If Albrighton can keep up the sort of level that we have seen in glimpses then he would be the perfect outlet and creator for someone like Benteke and Kozak.
At home I would like to see Benteke/Kozak upfront with Weimann just behind, Gabby left wing and Albrighton right.
Agreed but for me it would be benteke Kozak and albrighton given a run in the front 3 places, with gabby as an impact sub .
You think Benteke and Kozak can play in the same team though? I'm not sure myself.
I think we'll see on Saturday whether they can or not.
With Gabby being out, it's likely we will.
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
West Brom have a worse record than us not only this season but over the calendar year.
AVB spent an absolute fortune and his team have been thumped by two of their rivals.
Watford are spiralling into oblivion now they can't have half of Serie A on loan.
We are 11th.
Ahhh 11th - the new 4th for our ambitious manager and owner - dont think I could stand the euphoria of reaching a giddy 8th ;)
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He's not lucky to still have his job, but what he needs to do is start showing firstly that he understands we haven't been playing well for a while and secondly that he's actually going to do something to address it.
He's very reticent with the media, as he should be. If he has a 'right good go' at the players for playing badly, we shouldn't know. He'd be doing his job badly if we did know. I think, therefore, that we can extrapolate how unhappy he really is if he makes even the slightest criticism in the post match interview, and after the Fulham game he was really quite down on the performance.
So that's knowing there was a problem. Doing something about it? Well, we passed much better against United, and played a more direct and dribbly winger in an attempt to create more. It's a shame we were playing Man Utd, but we'll see if he does the same against Stoke - if he does, then maybe he's decided to work on doing something about our problems.
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
West Brom have a worse record than us not only this season but over the calendar year.
AVB spent an absolute fortune and his team have been thumped by two of their rivals.
Watford are spiralling into oblivion now they can't have half of Serie A on loan.
We are 11th.
Ahhh 11th - the new 4th for our ambitious manager and owner - dont think I could stand the euphoria of reaching a giddy 8th ;)
Can we nail this once and for all. Has anyone - manager, director or supporter - said they ultimately want to finish eleventh or would consider it a success?
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
West Brom have a worse record than us not only this season but over the calendar year.
AVB spent an absolute fortune and his team have been thumped by two of their rivals.
Watford are spiralling into oblivion now they can't have half of Serie A on loan.
We are 11th.
Ahhh 11th - the new 4th for our ambitious manager and owner - dont think I could stand the euphoria of reaching a giddy 8th ;)
There's a definite gap opening up in the Prem. You have a top 7, who look a way ahead of the rest (I include Utd in that because they will rise and the Toon will drop). Then there's a little group below with Newcastle, Southampton, possibly Swansea who could drift ahead of the rest. Then from 11th to 16/17th there's pretty much nothing between the sides, and in all honesty they're all a bit dross. The bottom 3 I think will remain as they are to be honest. All that may happen is Fulham might rise and Hull and Cardiff will get sucked down into a scrap as the season goes on.
If Lambert can sign 2-3 players and sort out some kind of actual game plan beyond running hard for 90 minutes, then we can be pushing for 9th-10th perhaps. If our performances don't improve I'd expect a similar finish to last season of around 15th.
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He's not lucky to still have his job, but what he needs to do is start showing firstly that he understands we haven't been playing well for a while and secondly that he's actually going to do something to address it.
He's very reticent with the media, as he should be. If he has a 'right good go' at the players for playing badly, we shouldn't know. He'd be doing his job badly if we did know. I think, therefore, that we can extrapolate how unhappy he really is if he makes even the slightest criticism in the post match interview, and after the Fulham game he was really quite down on the performance.
So that's knowing there was a problem. Doing something about it? Well, we passed much better against United, and played a more direct and dribbly winger in an attempt to create more. It's a shame we were playing Man Utd, but we'll see if he does the same against Stoke - if he does, then maybe he's decided to work on doing something about our problems.
I don't expect him to slate the players in public, as you indicate the evidence that he realises will be improved performances. At the moment, with the exception of 10 minutes against Manure after which we were atrocious, I haven't seen much. Hopefully in the coming weeks we'll see something.
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He's not lucky to still have his job, but what he needs to do is start showing firstly that he understands we haven't been playing well for a while and secondly that he's actually going to do something to address it.
He's very reticent with the media, as he should be. If he has a 'right good go' at the players for playing badly, we shouldn't know. He'd be doing his job badly if we did know. I think, therefore, that we can extrapolate how unhappy he really is if he makes even the slightest criticism in the post match interview, and after the Fulham game he was really quite down on the performance.
So that's knowing there was a problem. Doing something about it? Well, we passed much better against United, and played a more direct and dribbly winger in an attempt to create more. It's a shame we were playing Man Utd, but we'll see if he does the same against Stoke - if he does, then maybe he's decided to work on doing something about our problems.
I don't expect him to slate the players in public, as you indicate the evidence that he realises will be improved performances. At the moment, with the exception of 10 minutes against Manure after which we were atrocious, I haven't seen much. Hopefully in the coming weeks we'll see something.
I don't think we were as bad against United as has been made out. I thought we were supine defensively and just bent over whenever Valencia got the ball, but we were perfectly fine when in possession, just panicked in the wrong moments against a pretty strong defence.
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He's not lucky to still have his job, but what he needs to do is start showing firstly that he understands we haven't been playing well for a while and secondly that he's actually going to do something to address it.
He's very reticent with the media, as he should be. If he has a 'right good go' at the players for playing badly, we shouldn't know. He'd be doing his job badly if we did know. I think, therefore, that we can extrapolate how unhappy he really is if he makes even the slightest criticism in the post match interview, and after the Fulham game he was really quite down on the performance.
So that's knowing there was a problem. Doing something about it? Well, we passed much better against United, and played a more direct and dribbly winger in an attempt to create more. It's a shame we were playing Man Utd, but we'll see if he does the same against Stoke - if he does, then maybe he's decided to work on doing something about our problems.
I don't expect him to slate the players in public, as you indicate the evidence that he realises will be improved performances. At the moment, with the exception of 10 minutes against Manure after which we were atrocious, I haven't seen much. Hopefully in the coming weeks we'll see something.
I don't think we were as bad against United as has been made out. I thought we were supine defensively and just bent over whenever Valencia got the ball, but we were perfectly fine when in possession, just panicked in the wrong moments against a pretty strong defence.
I think we've got too many attackers that need a goal, we saw lots of snatched chances and extra touches around the box which made us look worse than we were. That said I think the midfield 3 were oo deep and didn't offer enough as a unit.
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I think we've got too many attackers that need a goal, we saw lots of snatched chances and extra touches around the box which made us look worse than we were. That said I think the midfield 3 were oo deep and didn't offer enough as a unit.
This is all true, but also reasonably nuanced criticism. Unlike the Fulham game where it was just shite.
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I think we've got too many attackers that need a goal, we saw lots of snatched chances and extra touches around the box which made us look worse than we were. That said I think the midfield 3 were oo deep and didn't offer enough as a unit.
This is all true, but also reasonably nuanced criticism. Unlike the Fulham game where it was just shite.
I agree but you'd spoken specifically about the united game. Like you I think we started trying to play a different way but I think the heads went down after 2 quick goals and we never really got going again, that both of the goals were self inflicted is the most frustrating part.
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Before the start of the season i think the vast majority of us thought we would end up in mid table clear of the relegation places.As we are 11th with 4 winnable games ahead of us i think we are exactly where we expect this team to be. We have had some good and bad performances from this team but surely that is what you expect from a young team.
The problem we have got as a club is the way modern football is now structured, and the way this club is currently financed, 6-8 place really is the very highest we can hope for. Gone are the days where we can finish 4th of the bottom as in 88-89 and then finish runners up as in 89-90. So if all we can hope for is mid table we are going to lose quite a few games in the process.
Personally in the current situation if we did get rid of Lambert we wouldnt be able to replace him with anyone better..and a new manager with such a young squad at his disposal would struggle to keep us up.
Performances have been poor of late but i think thats more down to a lack of confidence than anything else. Hopefully the next 4 winnable games we can restore some belief
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In answer to you Mr Woodhall I was on about his overall record since he became Villa manager. Biggest ever defeat in the clubs history 8-0 in case you have forgot,knocked out of the League cup by a fourth division side over two legs,knocked out by Millwall a poor championship side.Has the worst ever home record of a villa manager ,what is it 6 wins out of 27 .His style of football is awful. Have you been listening to the villa fans who have just been on WM . All agree with what i say . Give me some reasons why he is a good manger.Maybe you and dave Cooper are happy being in the lower half of the league and playing awful football I certainly am not
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Personally in the current situation if we did get rid of Lambert we wouldnt be able to replace him with anyone better..and a new manager with such a young squad at his disposal would struggle to keep us up.
I think you're half right. We all thought Southampton were mad last season when they sacked Adkins in January but they managed to find a better manager. Hopefully we could do the same. The real issue as you've stated is how a new manager and our young squad get on. Even though there's half a season to go, it's risky business.
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That's told the two Daves!
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Winnable games makes me smile. I'm not sure what a winnable game is anymore.
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Winnable games makes me smile. I'm not sure what a winnable game is anymore.
Yes just think of the nil nil against Sunderland.
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In answer to you Mr Woodhall I was on about his overall record since he became Villa manager. Biggest ever defeat in the clubs history 8-0 in case you have forgot,knocked out of the League cup by a fourth division side over two legs,knocked out by Millwall a poor championship side.Has the worst ever home record of a villa manager ,what is it 6 wins out of 27 .His style of football is awful. Have you been listening to the villa fans who have just been on WM . All agree with what i say . Give me some reasons why he is a good manger.Maybe you and dave Cooper are happy being in the lower half of the league and playing awful football I certainly am not
Did I say I was happy at the moment, or with some of the results last season? Did anyone? I want him to stay because I believe he can improve the current situation and provide a platform for success. I say that based on some of the signings he has made and some of the games I have witnessed.
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Personally in the current situation if we did get rid of Lambert we wouldnt be able to replace him with anyone better..and a new manager with such a young squad at his disposal would struggle to keep us up.
I think you're half right. We all thought Southampton were mad last season when they sacked Adkins in January but they managed to find a better manager. Hopefully we could do the same. The real issue as you've stated is how a new manager and our young squad get on. Even though there's half a season to go, it's risky business.
Yes but Southampton have got more than the talented youngsters they have brought through. Osvaldo cost £13 million, so did wanjama and the loose change of £9 million went on Lovren. Another club fans think we are similar to but we aren't are we?
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I'm sure Arsenal, Saints and Man City classed us as winnable games. It happens, and yet at times it seems we are the only club to ever fail to win a "winnable" game in the history of football.
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Winnable games makes me smile. I'm not sure what a winnable game is anymore.
Yes just think of the nil nil against Sunderland.
3-1 against Arsenal, 3-2 against champions-elect Manchester City
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Personally in the current situation if we did get rid of Lambert we wouldnt be able to replace him with anyone better..and a new manager with such a young squad at his disposal would struggle to keep us up.
I think you're half right. We all thought Southampton were mad last season when they sacked Adkins in January but they managed to find a better manager. Hopefully we could do the same. The real issue as you've stated is how a new manager and our young squad get on. Even though there's half a season to go, it's risky business.
Yes but Southampton have got more than the talented youngsters they have brought through. Osvaldo cost £13 million, so did wanjama and the loose change of £9 million went on Lovren. Another club fans think we are similar to but we aren't are we?
A club not too long ago were in administration in league one.
We need new investment.
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Personally in the current situation if we did get rid of Lambert we wouldnt be able to replace him with anyone better..and a new manager with such a young squad at his disposal would struggle to keep us up.
I think you're half right. We all thought Southampton were mad last season when they sacked Adkins in January but they managed to find a better manager. Hopefully we could do the same. The real issue as you've stated is how a new manager and our young squad get on. Even though there's half a season to go, it's risky business.
Yes but Southampton have got more than the talented youngsters they have brought through. Osvaldo cost £13 million, so did wanjama and the loose change of £9 million went on Lovren. Another club fans think we are similar to but we aren't are we?
A club not too long ago were in administration in league one.
We need new investment.
So we need a new owner, not another new manager then?
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Personally in the current situation if we did get rid of Lambert we wouldnt be able to replace him with anyone better..and a new manager with such a young squad at his disposal would struggle to keep us up.
I think you're half right. We all thought Southampton were mad last season when they sacked Adkins in January but they managed to find a better manager. Hopefully we could do the same. The real issue as you've stated is how a new manager and our young squad get on. Even though there's half a season to go, it's risky business.
Yes but Southampton have got more than the talented youngsters they have brought through. Osvaldo cost £13 million, so did wanjama and the loose change of £9 million went on Lovren. Another club fans think we are similar to but we aren't are we?
You're missing the point. Southampton had just been promoted and in January they sacked Nigel Adkins despite him being responsible for consecutive promotions. They managed to find a better manager. The fact they backed him in the summer is neither here nor there.
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Sometimes sacking a manager works, often it doesn't. How did it work out for QPR and Reading? Sunderland don't seem to be doing too well either. Wolves sacking McCarthy was a masterstroke. It has worked a treat for Southampton, so far.
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Sometimes sacking a manager works, often it doesn't. How did it work out for QPR and Reading? Sunderland don't seem to be doing too well either. Wolves sacking McCarthy was a masterstroke. It has worked a treat for Southampton, so far.
I guess the real question is could we rely on the Villa board to find a better manager than Lambert?
***runs off***
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A club not too long ago were in administration in league one.
We need new investment.
[/quote]So we need a new owner, not another new manager then?
[/quote]
Well we need to bring young players through, we need to spot up and coming talent from here and abroad but to avoid a perennial struggle, yes, we do need to invest. Others have already said it seems we might be prepared to spend on transfers but not on excessive wages. Hopefully they can find a solution to all this. Mind you, I do find perverse pleasure in big spending Spurs struggling to get it right.
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Changing manager usually works better if you provide money for new signings like Southampton or have a squad already in place like Spurs. I'm not sure we meet either of those criteria.
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Sometimes sacking a manager works, often it doesn't. How did it work out for QPR and Reading? Sunderland don't seem to be doing too well either. Wolves sacking McCarthy was a masterstroke. It has worked a treat for Southampton, so far.
I guess the real question is could we rely on the Villa board to find a better manager than Lambert?
***runs off***
Not sure whether they roll dice or throw darts at pictures on a board. Answer to your question, NO.
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Sometimes sacking a manager works, often it doesn't. How did it work out for QPR and Reading? Sunderland don't seem to be doing too well either. Wolves sacking McCarthy was a masterstroke. It has worked a treat for Southampton, so far.
I guess the real question is could we rely on the Villa board to find a better manager than Lambert?
***runs off***
I think that's always the most important question. I remember raising it in about 2008 when getting rid of O'Neill was a popular idea and they expected that Mourinho or Hiddink would be the next people through the door.
Lambert's got his flaws, but out of the people they've had to hire so far he's probably the one with the fewest.
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The question has been asked of his supporters.
Let them respond to that question.
It's pointless. You've made your mind up. It doesn't matter what anyone says now you won't listen!
You say that, but i'd still like to hear any footballing reasons to keep him on
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I still support the Lambo plan for the time being. Steve Clarke with Zola together, though... Mmmm. Tempting? Nope! They failed at West Ham.
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I'm of the opinion we need a new start from top to bottom but I'm not holding my breath. We don't seem to make any smart moves any more. There doesn't seem to be any ambition or plan apart from treading water with as little expenditure as possible. Which for a club our size is a bit disappointing.
I personally feel the board feel we can't compete at anything like the top so won't try, the manager is regressing alarmingly. We look a shadow of the team we ended last season with. No energy or composure or determination. Very few ideas and a lot of tentative nervous play I thought we'd left behind during McLeish's era and the first half of last season. There's no appetite to keep the ball, to dominate even the lowliest teams and worst of all, there's a huge amount of naivety and stupidity in our play.
It's not all bad but it's not really going anywhere. Yes, we've lost some key players but that's not the reason we've fallen of a cliff. Nor can I offer any suggestions as to what exactly has happened but I'm sure something has. Something isn't right behind the scenes.
I don't want to watch the kind of football we play at the moment. It's nothing short of horrible. I'm not calling for the managers head but as things stand I wouldn't mind if he was to go. I rate Clarke and the kind of football he plays but I'm not sure he'd get any more backing here than he did at West Brom so don't see much point in it.
So I know I sound like a spoilt brat but I don't care. I want to watch some compelling football again and some positive direction from the board. That needs to happen whoever us calling the shots. We're all sick of the shite served up at Villa Park I'm sure. It should be a fortress not a help yourself buffet.
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I'm of the opinion we need a new start from top to bottom but I'm not holding my breath. We don't seem to make any smart moves any more. There doesn't seem to be any ambition or plan apart from treading water with as little expenditure as possible. Which for a club our size is a bit disappointing.
I personally feel the board feel we can't compete at anything like the top so won't try, the manager is regressing alarmingly. We look a shadow of the team we ended last season with. No energy or composure or determination. Very few ideas and a lot of tentative nervous play I thought we'd left behind during McLeish's era and the first half of last season. There's no appetite to keep the ball, to dominate even the lowliest teams and worst of all, there's a huge amount of naivety and stupidity in our play.
It's not all bad but it's not really going anywhere. Yes, we've lost some key players but that's not the reason we've fallen of a cliff. Nor can I offer any suggestions as to what exactly has happened but I'm sure something has. Something isn't right behind the scenes.
I don't want to watch the kind of football we play at the moment. It's nothing short of horrible. I'm not calling for the managers head but as things stand I wouldn't mind if he was to go. I rate Clarke and the kind of football he plays but I'm not sure he'd get any more backing here than he did at West Brom so don't see much point in it.
So I know I sound like a spoilt brat but I don't care. I want to watch some compelling football again and some positive direction from the board. That needs to happen whoever us calling the shots. We're all sick of the shite served up at Villa Park I'm sure. It should be a fortress not a help yourself buffet.
Good post maz .
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I just clicked on this thread to find it is about sack or to keep Lambert. I find it incredible that people are asking this question. Sack him and do what? Start again and waste more millions? Start with another squad building expedition? One sure way to get relegated is to keep changing managers.
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I just clicked on this thread to find it is about sack or to keep Lambert. I find it incredible that people are asking this question. Sack him and do what? Start again and waste more millions? Start with another squad building expedition? One sure way to get relegated is to keep changing managers.
Changing managers hasn't bought us relegation from the Premier League yet.
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I just clicked on this thread to find it is about sack or to keep Lambert. I find it incredible that people are asking this question. Sack him and do what? Start again and waste more millions? Start with another squad building expedition? One sure way to get relegated is to keep changing managers.
This. It ain't great but it's not reached anywhere near the point where we make a change IMO.
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I just clicked on this thread to find it is about sack or to keep Lambert. I find it incredible that people are asking this question. Sack him and do what? Start again and waste more millions? Start with another squad building expedition? One sure way to get relegated is to keep changing managers.
Changing managers hasn't bought us relegation from the Premier League yet.
It's come far too close.
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Seconded ,Good post Maz
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The only realistic alternative to the acceptance of mid table mediocrity as the price of balancing the books is to concentrate the bulk of whatever money our manager has at his disposal into funding a top flight world wide scouting network and bringing on our own teenagers. There are hundreds of cheap, young talented players out there. You just have to get to them first.
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One thing is certain when you hear that just over the last couple of days alone,the Albion ,Spurs and Watford have parted company with their managers for bad results ,Lambert is very lucky to still have his
West Brom have a worse record than us not only this season but over the calendar year.
AVB spent an absolute fortune and his team have been thumped by two of their rivals.
Watford are spiralling into oblivion now they can't have half of Serie A on loan.
We are 11th.
Ahhh 11th - the new 4th for our ambitious manager and owner - dont think I could stand the euphoria of reaching a giddy 8th ;)
Can we nail this once and for all. Has anyone - manager, director or supporter - said they ultimately want to finish eleventh or would consider it a success?
With our squad I'd think it was a miracle, never mind a success.
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A pessimistic and depressed Mazrim is not good news!
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It's also on something like 15 or 16 players to rebuild a squad. If we'd just bought 5 or 6 players i'd be sat on the bench as a sub as we'd have no players.
Paul e has it right, we've rebuilt the squad numbers wise, now it is time to start buying first team players, not squad players.
That's one issue I had with the summer dealings - very few of them improved on the team that finished last season for us.
this
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I just clicked on this thread to find it is about sack or to keep Lambert. I find it incredible that people are asking this question. Sack him and do what? Start again and waste more millions? Start with another squad building expedition? One sure way to get relegated is to keep changing managers.
This is it for me as well. With a new manager, we'd be starting all over again, he'd be bringing in his new players, new backroom staff, we'd have to wait for them to get etc. I know thing's aren't great but i'm not sure he deserves the sack.
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I am always positive about all things Villa. I have supported Paul Lambert and waited and hoped BUT it is looking so depressing currently. We looked like little boys against Manchester United, a Championship team at best. I would definitely be looking around for a new manager now and if I found anyone who might improve things I would go for it asap.
Currently I would even take .... well, who?
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I still support the Lambo plan for the time being. Steve Clarke with Zola together, though... Mmmm. Tempting? Nope! They failed at West Ham.
i think Clarke would be an excellent No 2 . Not sure he would do after being his own man thou
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I'm of the opinion we need a new start from top to bottom but I'm not holding my breath. We don't seem to make any smart moves any more. There doesn't seem to be any ambition or plan apart from treading water with as little expenditure as possible. Which for a club our size is a bit disappointing.
I personally feel the board feel we can't compete at anything like the top so won't try, the manager is regressing alarmingly. We look a shadow of the team we ended last season with. No energy or composure or determination. Very few ideas and a lot of tentative nervous play I thought we'd left behind during McLeish's era and the first half of last season. There's no appetite to keep the ball, to dominate even the lowliest teams and worst of all, there's a huge amount of naivety and stupidity in our play.
It's not all bad but it's not really going anywhere. Yes, we've lost some key players but that's not the reason we've fallen of a cliff. Nor can I offer any suggestions as to what exactly has happened but I'm sure something has. Something isn't right behind the scenes.
I don't want to watch the kind of football we play at the moment. It's nothing short of horrible. I'm not calling for the managers head but as things stand I wouldn't mind if he was to go. I rate Clarke and the kind of football he plays but I'm not sure he'd get any more backing here than he did at West Brom so don't see much point in it.
So I know I sound like a spoilt brat but I don't care. I want to watch some compelling football again and some positive direction from the board. That needs to happen whoever us calling the shots. We're all sick of the shite served up at Villa Park I'm sure. It should be a fortress not a help yourself buffet.
spot on
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If we did boot him out then it's simple we dust ourselves off and then...
...wait for it....
it's coming...
...we go again!
:)
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I am always positive about all things Villa. I have supported Paul Lambert and waited and hoped BUT it is looking so depressing currently. We looked like little boys against Manchester United, a Championship team at best. I would definitely be looking around for a new manager now and if I found anyone who might improve things I would go for it asap.
Currently I would even take .... well, who?
No one at the moment. I think we have to get used to the building process that is going on at Villa for a while yet, but a bit of flair would be nice to see. The first ten mins against MYOO were great, good attacking football, then we just gave up. We are badly missing Stan, who has not been replaced, Vlaar, Okore, Melberg, Laursen, Ashley Young on loan in a heartbeat, please santa. Benteke on form would be nice, Delph back, lovely.
It's Christmas, so what is on your shopping list for January ?
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A pessimistic and depressed Mazrim is not good news!
I read the post first, then who wrote it. My thoughts exactly. Very bad news!
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Sometimes sacking a manager works, often it doesn't. How did it work out for QPR and Reading? Sunderland don't seem to be doing too well either. Wolves sacking McCarthy was a masterstroke. It has worked a treat for Southampton, so far.
I guess the real question is could we rely on the Villa board to find a better manager than Lambert?
***runs off***
Deep deep down I think maybe this could be what is discouraging my thoughts on replacing Lambert. I do like Randy, and I understand why we are on this road to recover financially, however decision making and appointing managers might not be his strong point. Any day soon Fat Sam will also be available too :/
Still in the shake him up camp.
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I'm not depressed, more confused than anything else. I'm fine with struggling and transition, after all it's too often our lot anyway, but I need to see a long term plan and at the moment I don't see one. I want to see us go back to a more aggressive game like we had in the last few months of last season. But we're also a few players short of that. A good January window and a rethink of how we go about games might be all that's needed.
Right now, too many players are struggling, a few too many are missing and if we don't back pedal into our own area in the hope of counter attacking there really isn't any other plan. We should have more than that.
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There's an argument that Lambert has been dealt a bad hand this season so far. He lost potentially a very good centre half for the season, Benteke has not looked the same player since his injury, he lost N'Zogbia before the season even started and the likes of Weimann, Westwood, Lowton etc who served him well last season haven't done it this time for whatever reason.
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There's an argument that Lambert has been dealt a bad hand this season so far. He lost potentially a very good centre half for the season, Benteke has not looked the same player since his injury, he lost N'Zogbia before the season even started and the likes of Weimann, Westwood, Lowton etc who served him well last season haven't done it this time for whatever reason.
Get the team that finished last season (in terms of form) add an improved Vlaar and Okore and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Not that the manager is blameless (for reasons expressed ad infinitum), but half the side basically haven't shown up this season.
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I agree with that Clampy, luck does not seem to be going his way. The one thing I keep thinking is last season I thought lambert looked a man defeated then suddenly he turned it around, something clicked. I keep waiting for it to happen this season , but as it goes on we seem to be playing worse with every passing week.
I hope the way we are playing, the way we can not pass and retain possession is only a confidence thing and a good performance, not just the result but the way we play turns it around. Like Mazrim says too many players are void of belief or just missing. It's got to stop soon or again we are going to be dragged into a dog fight again.
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There are hundreds of cheap, young talented players out there. You just have to get to them first.
We should look at whoever won the Next Gen Series, they obviously have lots of young talent coming through, if only we could tap into that pool of talent........oh wait a minute.
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That's another thing. Very few of our vaunted kids have had much of a look in. From a manager who champions young players I find that odd.
Daniel Johnson at least should be in match squads.
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There's an argument that Lambert has been dealt a bad hand this season so far. He lost potentially a very good centre half for the season, Benteke has not looked the same player since his injury, he lost N'Zogbia before the season even started and the likes of Weimann, Westwood, Lowton etc who served him well last season haven't done it this time for whatever reason.
Get the team that finished last season (in terms of form) add an improved Vlaar and Okore and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Not that the manager is blameless (for reasons expressed ad infinitum), but half the side basically haven't shown up this season.
Good points Dekko, but he has failed to strengthen the overall squad so we're still in a position where we are struggling to cover injuries and loss of form. I'm also starting to think that he he is not the best judge of left backs!!
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Get the team that finished last season (in terms of form) add an improved Vlaar and Okore and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Not that the manager is blameless (for reasons expressed ad infinitum), but half the side basically haven't shown up this season.
Good points Dekko, but he has failed to strengthen the overall squad so we're still in a position where we are struggling to cover injuries and loss of form. I'm also starting to think that he he is not the best judge of left backs!!
I have a feeling that the reason he went for depth and numbers rather than quality (except Okore) was because we finished the season so well that he figured we wouldn't need much in the way of upgrades. He's always had more faith in the squad than any of us (as last January showed) and some of them have let him/us down.
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It just all feels a long way from the 'bright future' scarves. Randy clearly doesn't care. He's spent a fortune on tat like Harewood and Zat Knight, so I don't entirely blame him, but he has completely lost interest now. Lambert always looks like he doesn't give a toss, so it's hard to believe that he inspires the players, and that's what it looks like on the pitch. The squad itself is full of average players who aren't even performing to the limited abilities they have. There is no reason to believe any of the above will change and the only point of playing the 38 games is to get more points than three other teams, so we can do it all again next year. And that is why it's hard to have the old excitement about the mighty Villa.
Does that mean we should sack Lambert? Well, unless the fiscal policy changes, we won't get a better squad so it's down to whether you think anyone else we could get in under those circumstances could get much more out of the players. If the fiscal policy did change, that's the time to have a long hard look at what kind of manager he is. At best, Randy will fund us once more and if we waste that then I think we'll be in the wilderness for a while unless we find a new owner.
Merry Christmas by the way.
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It just all feels a long way from the 'bright future' scarves. Randy clearly doesn't care. He's spent a fortune on tat like Harewood and Zat Knight, so I don't entirely blame him, but he has completely lost interest now. Lambert always looks like he doesn't give a toss, so it's hard to believe that he inspires the players, and that's what it looks like on the pitch. The squad itself is full of average players who aren't even performing to the limited abilities they have. There is no reason to believe any of the above will change and the only point of playing the 38 games is to get more points than three other teams, so we can do it all again next year. And that is why it's hard to have the old excitement about the mighty Villa.
Does that mean we should sack Lambert? Well, unless the fiscal policy changes, we won't get a better squad so it's down to whether you think anyone else we could get in under those circumstances could get much more out of the players. If the fiscal policy did change, that's the time to have a long hard look at what kind of manager he is. At best, Randy will fund us once more and if we waste that then I think we'll be in the wilderness for a while unless we find a new owner.
Merry Christmas by the way.
The depressing thing is, that seems to be the only way forward now.
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That's another thing. Very few of our vaunted kids have had much of a look in. From a manager who champions young players I find that odd.
Daniel Johnson at least should be in match squads.
I would have thought Johnson would give that midfield decent balance, particularly when Delph is out - if Lambert persists with a narrow midfield three, DJ on the left of that three could work well. He keeps the ball well, good delivery. Just a nice footballer.
Better than seeing Sylla struggling to scramble across to the left to cover. Not his game at all. Which is my concern about Lambert right now... square pegs, round holes. No wonder it all looks a bit unbalanced.
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Lambert may have been unlucky with injuries, but that's been counterbalanced by a lot of fortunate results on the pitch. We should also consider that Lamberts had ample opportunity to player the midfield and attack that worked so well for us between Feb and May.
He opted instead to persist with KEA, who is, as politely as I can put it, Bobbins. That he's failed to spot that Westwood and KEA can't play together is his own fault. I also think that Sylla's own development has been slightly hampered. He's gone from gradually improving having played week in and week out from Feb onwards, to being in and out the side, and he's struggling to have an impact at the moment. I'm not sure why the one gameplan Lambert has had that works in his time here, he's not implemented again.
Again I get sick sometimes of seeing all our attacking players stepping over each others toes in the middle of the pitch, because he doesn't like to play with width. The sad part is we have had some joy when Tonev or Albrighton (more so Alby) have played out wide, though actually at the most effective (Everton home, Utd home) we lost both games, so Lambert might simply assume that there's no point playing a winger after all. Who knows?
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Blaming imaginary forces again.
A question. Does the following sound silly?
We beat Southampton and Man City because God willed it.
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KEA isn't bobbins, but you're right - I see him and Westwood as very similar, in terms of where they like to be playing, so the two of them together doesn't work. Then when you bring Sylla in alongside those two, even less suitable - all three like/need to be central. So then our midfield is narrow, and Sylla gets flak for struggling to pull wide left and close players down (v Man U), or struggling to ping crosses in from wide on the right (v West Brom).
I struggle to understand why Lambert is asking Sylla to play like that, when he has Bacuna - who seems best suited to RM, to me - Albrighton (admittedly now just fit) and Tonev, all of whom are naturally wide players. Why is he trying to make central midfielders play wide?
If he wants a midfield three, right to left - Bacuna, Westwood, Delph would provide a lovely balance. If he wants a compact four, perm any four of Albrighton/Bacuna - Westwood-Delph-Tonev/Bacuna.
I too thought Sylla looked promising last season. If he has a role to play, it's surely as a CM, centrally, winning the ball and screening the defence, no? I don't know what Lambert is trying to do with him this season.
I understand the strategy in place regarding the squad, I accept the need for it, and I like, in principal, the policy of recruiting younger players, but I'm a little perplexed by some of the manager's selection decisions, I must admit.
I don't know why he doesn't like using wide players, in the main. It's one of the reasons our full-backs are often overloaded. Luna was poor on Sunday but he pretty much had Valencia and Rafael coming at him. No midfielder in front of him, and asking Gabby to track back and support Benteke is always going to leave us vulnerable.
So, overall, Supertom.... I agree with you.
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If he wants a midfield three, right to left - Bacuna, Westwood, Delph would provide a lovely balance. If he wants a compact four, perm any four of Albrighton/Bacuna - Westwood-Delph-Tonev/Bacuna.
I've thought for a while that's our best midfield three and really want him to try it.
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I think Bacuna, Westwood, Delph is worth a go.
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The thought of us continuing with any midfield three brings me out in a cold sweat. I honestly think it's one of the key reasons, if not THE key reason we're useless.
We get outnumbered, drawn in to playing way too narrow and it deprives us of any width too.
I just don't see it as working any longer as we've been found out in that area and it's become completely ineffective. Nearly as ineffective as the front three which has also become hideously found out and toothless
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SLB, that's the worst tactical analysis possible, I think. They get outnumbered because they overcommit forwards, and they have no width because the three up front play too narrowly, not the midfielders. You want to see outnumbered? Let's see us play 4-4-2 then. We either have two central midfielders against three (almost everyone plays three), completely outnumbered and isolated, or we play a narrow or even a diamond 4 in the middle and have exactly no width and no protection for the full-backs. We need to play three in the centre like everyone else does - it's just the wide players who need to play wider.
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SLB, that's the worst tactical analysis possible, I think. They get outnumbered because they overcommit forwards, and they have no width because the three up front play too narrowly, not the midfielders. You want to see outnumbered?
I'm not sure i've ever disagreed with a post as much as the one above to be honest. And i've done some disagreeing on here!
How on earth do our midfield overcommit themselves forward ?, that's about as opposite to what they do as is possible. They couldn't play much deeper if they tried!
As for them not playing narrow ... ARE YOU SURE ?, you could cover all three of them with a deluxe sized duvet in most matches, as they're all usually stuck in and around the circumference of the centre circle
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I'm not sure i've ever disagreed with a post as much as the one above to be honest. And i've done some disagreeing on here!
How on earth do our midfield overcommit themselves forward ?, that's about as opposite to what they do as is possible. They couldn't play much deeper if they tried!
As for them not playing narrow ... ARE YOU SURE ?, you could cover all three of them with a deluxe sized duvet in most matches, as they're all usually stuck in and around the circumference of the centre circle
I'm not saying the middle three aren't narrow, of course they are, that's why they're called a midfield three. Everyone does it. But the wide players play too narrowly too often, so we end up being crammed in. We need our midfielders to try and occupy the centre, but when they look up they have nobody in space to play it too because Gabby is too busy standing next to Benteke.
As for overcommitting, they didn't do it often, but whenever we were outnumbered in central midfield the other day it was because they'd all run to the ball in the Man Utd half and left a gaping chasm behind them and in front of the defence. I just want to know, what are your alternatives to three in the middle, and how would they improve us?
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We're not outnumbered because of the central midfield three, we're outnumbered because the wide forwards don't support the midfield enough.
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We're not outnumbered because of the central midfield three, we're outnumbered because the wide forwards don't support the midfield enough.
Exactly, because they essentially play as three centre forwards, narrow and high up the pitch. The effect of Albrighton's natural wingeriness was stark.
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We could have 3,4 5,6, or 7 in midfield.
If they just play in front of our own back line as we do now, we will always invite trouble.
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Outnumbered in midfield - This is because our players get drawn out of position too easily, one of the games where this didn't happen was Southampton which we won because we kept our shape and let them have the ball where they couldn't hurt us. The game I'd like to see us play is for us to press the ball more but we don't have the discipline in the middle to do that currently. Monty is right, in defence our midfielders get drawn to far forward, KEA is really bad for it.
Narrow play - This is due to the movement we offer in the middle. Gabby and Weimann will always want to move inside a little, they're strikers not wingers what we need is for people to move into the space they leave behind. When we were doing well last season Lowton did that really well on the right side but on top of that we need on of the midfielders who can drift into those spaces as well, the edge of the box can be enough width if the movement is right and you have markers handing players on, etc.
The other issue with the width is that when we do get the ball wide we need someone finding space in the box. At his best Benteke is excellent at finding those gaps, in his current form he's offering very little, which is very frustrating.
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I see it as being outnumbered because we play 3 in midfield and 3 in attack.
Lambert's obviously told the 3 in attack to stay up which means the 3 in the middle, and i do literally mean the middle (NO WIDTH) often play against 5 or 4 depending on who we play against
4-3-3 is crap for us now because the players we have aren't good or clever enough to make it work IMHO. Teams know how to nullify our threat and how to expose our weaknesses far too easily.
You only had to look at poor Luna on Sunday and how woefully exposed he was down our left hand side, he had not protection from any of the midfield 3 or Gabby.
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But other teams play three in the middle. Everyone plays three in the middle. If they don't, they get outnumbered. If you play a midfield four, then you have two in the middle against everyone else's three. I don't know where your getting these numbers from - everybody, and I mean absolutely absolutely everybody, knows that 4-3-3 has become the predominant formation so as to avoid getting overrun in the centre.
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But other teams play three in the middle. Everyone plays three in the middle. If they don't, they get outnumbered. If you play a midfield four, then you have two in the middle against everyone else's three. I don't know where your getting these numbers from - everybody, and I mean absolutely absolutely everybody, knows that 4-3-3 has become the predominant formation so as to avoid getting overrun in the centre.
What do you mean everyone plays 3 in the middle and 3 up front like we do ?
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It's also not so much a system problem either right now as it is all too frequent basic errors. We're fucking up 5 yard passes with frightening regularity and then teams break on us. Our forward 3 tend to have crammed themselves up among the opposition defence, and are thus in no position to be A- providing width in attack, or B- supporting the fullback if we're broken on and have to defend.
Likewise we don't really have a midfielder who's going to mop up and do the dirty work. Delph is expends a lot of energy but is always looking to run forward.
Westwood has no defensive inclination at all.
KEA does nothing.
Sylla was quite effective at breaking up the opposition, higher up the pitch last season, but he's been ineffective this season.
Have Herdy in the middle holding, carrying the can and he can help cover both fullbacks and take care of midfield runners who stroll through us too easily.
I hope Albrighton keeps his place too. He provides some attacking width, and at least helped out Lowton a bit. Defensively Alby isn't fantastic but he works hard.
Keep the ball better and we won't spend the vast majority of matches having to defend.
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But other teams play three in the middle. Everyone plays three in the middle. If they don't, they get outnumbered. If you play a midfield four, then you have two in the middle against everyone else's three. I don't know where your getting these numbers from - everybody, and I mean absolutely absolutely everybody, knows that 4-3-3 has become the predominant formation so as to avoid getting overrun in the centre.
Man City, Man U and Liverpool have all regularly played 2 up front this season and many other teams have as well so it can still work. I also prefer 3 in the middle though.
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Pretty much every team now has some variation of three in midfield: 4-2-3-1 has three central midfielders with one forward of the other two, 4-5-1/4-3-3 obviously has three in the centre, and 3-5-2 has even come back because teams who want two up front can't afford to play fewer than three in the middle. Even United who had Welbeck and Rooney 'up front' really played a 4-2-3-1 because Rooney spent so much of his time dropping deep, as he usually does. City's two forwards take it in turns to drop deep and go on (sort of like the old midfield duos of 'one stays one goes), and Liverpool either play three at the back or have Suarez drifting around everywhere.
Our problem is narrowness, you're right. But I have no idea what the central midfielders are meant to do about this. Are they meant to string out across the middle of the pitch like a table football formation? It's mysterious to me what you mean. The problem is that the three forwards play too narrowly and mostly too far up the pitch.
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But other teams play three in the middle. Everyone plays three in the middle. If they don't, they get outnumbered. If you play a midfield four, then you have two in the middle against everyone else's three. I don't know where your getting these numbers from - everybody, and I mean absolutely absolutely everybody, knows that 4-3-3 has become the predominant formation so as to avoid getting overrun in the centre.
Man City, Man U and Liverpool have all regularly played 2 up front this season and many other teams have as well so it can still work. I also prefer 3 in the middle though.
Something like Utd's system could work for us for the time being. They play a kind of 4-4-1-1 (or you could call it 4-2-3-1 I guess too). But they played with a central midfield 2. Often with Rooney dropping back in support (not defensive support however, just in implementing attacks).
I'd like to see Weimann play that role. He doesn't have the guile of course, but his work rate is good. And if he's expending a lot of energy, I'd like to see him dropped in that area where he can pressurize the oppositions play maker. Andy shouldn't play right side anymore. He's struggling. He's a center-forward. His best game this season, and only goal (league) was when he played central against City. We were quite effective in that game in disrupting their play and a lot of that came from Weimann contributing his work rate in the middle, as opposed out on the right.
I also don't agree that 3 CM's is the only way to go, because for most of the games we play this system this season, we have KEA in there, and he's completely anonymous for 90% of most matches. A couple of goals and an assist don't hide that. For all he offers, sometimes we may as well be playing with 2 anyway.
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when i say a middle 3, i mean a midfield consisting of 3 players, not just 3 playing in the centre of the midfield
we play 3 in midfield. not 5 with 3 in the middle obviously
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when i say a middle 3, i mean a midfield consisting of 3 players, not just 3 playing in the centre of the midfield
we play 3 in midfield. not 5 with 3 in the middle obviously
Ah I see, so you mean the forwards are too far advanced leaving the midfield isolated? In which case yes, I agree with you.
Phew. That was odd.
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remember when we had posters queing up to sack Lambert and get Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis in, anyone that could keep us up
now we have a manager who is keeping us in mid table admitedly playing boring unattractive football at the moment, and they still want him out,
yet if they had had there way we would be worse off playing even worser football, just ask the spammers
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remember when we had posters queing up to sack Lambert and get Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis in, anyone that could keep us up
now we have a manager who is keeping us in mid table admitedly playing boring unattractive football at the moment, and they still want him out,
yet if they had had there way we would be worse off playing even worser football, just ask the spammers
Absolute nonsense. How many people on here were "queuing up" to sack Lambert and appoint Hughes, Pullis or Allardyce for the Villa job?
I can name one.
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remember when we had posters queing up to sack Lambert and get Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis in, anyone that could keep us up
now we have a manager who is keeping us in mid table admitedly playing boring unattractive football at the moment, and they still want him out,
yet if they had had there way we would be worse off playing even worser football, just ask the spammers
Absolute nonsense. How many people on here were "queuing up" to sack Lambert and appoint Hughes, Pullis or Allardyce for the Villa job?
I can name one.
Though there is an unofficial boycott on doing so. The Poster Who Must Not Be Named.
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Who?
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Who?
You know. The banished one who really did advocate the appointing of Allardyce.
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GN?
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Risso. He who thought Delph was shit, the worst player he'd ever seen.
*Waves to Risso*
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remember when we had posters queing up to sack Lambert and get Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis in, anyone that could keep us up
now we have a manager who is keeping us in mid table admitedly playing boring unattractive football at the moment, and they still want him out,
yet if they had had there way we would be worse off playing even worser football, just ask the spammers
Absolute nonsense. How many people on here were "queuing up" to sack Lambert and appoint Hughes, Pullis or Allardyce for the Villa job?
I can name one.
you will have to go back to the threads of jan last year.
believe me we were doomed and Allardyce or his like was the answer for many on here,
I can remember reading 'just give me a year of boring midtable football' and it wasn't just an isolated few there were many who could not see us staying up,
Leeds and Shef Wed were mentioned all the time as we were inevitably following them to oblivion ( that's another word I fell out with another poster about)
please don't tell me you never read this rist slashing stuff because its all there in the back threads, I couldn't give a stuff about finding it as it was an arse ache to read the first time round
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I think Lambert's intention is for us to play a 4-5-1 evolving to a 4-3-3 when we're on the attack. Unfortunately, it's all gone lopsided for some reason. On Sunday we had Benteke and Gabby playing more or less as a front two, with the midfield three behind. Albrighton naturally spent most of his time on the right wing, but I'm not convinced that was where he was instructed to play. He did pop up on the left and in the middle from time to time. But the point is, we had nobody at all on the left of midfield. Literally nobody.
So either Gabby was told to run the left channel and ignored his instructions totally, or Lambert cocked up royally.
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I think Lambert's intention is for us to play a 4-5-1 evolving to a 4-3-3 when we're on the attack. Unfortunately, it's all gone lopsided for some reason. On Sunday we had Benteke and Gabby playing more or less as a front two, with the midfield three behind. Albrighton naturally spent most of his time on the right wing, but I'm not convinced that was where he was instructed to play. He did pop up on the left and in the middle from time to time. But the point is, we had nobody at all on the left of midfield. Literally nobody.
So either Gabby was told to run the left channel and ignored his instructions totally, or Lambert cocked up royally.
Recently the fullbacks have also barely gone beyond the half way line, which again, doesn't help matters. It leaves them having to mostly defend in matches which is the weakness, as opposed to trying to attack more, which is their (kind of) strength.
Then again, they can barely get beyond the half way line before we've gifted the ball back, so it's not always entirely their fault.
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[/quote]
Recently the fullbacks have also barely gone beyond the half way line, which again, doesn't help matters. It leaves them having to mostly defend in matches which is the weakness, as opposed to trying to attack more, which is their (kind of) strength.
Then again, they can barely get beyond the half way line before we've gifted the ball back, so it's not always entirely their fault.
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Supertom, one of our problems at Fulham was that Bacuna was away on a stag night in the Fulham half when we were not in possession. No discipline at all in that game.
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Recently the fullbacks have also barely gone beyond the half way line, which again, doesn't help matters. It leaves them having to mostly defend in matches which is the weakness, as opposed to trying to attack more, which is their (kind of) strength.
Then again, they can barely get beyond the half way line before we've gifted the ball back, so it's not always entirely their fault.
[/quote]
Supertom, one of our problems at Fulham was that Bacuna was away on a stag night in the Fulham half when we were not in possession. No discipline at all in that game.
[/quote]
Christ knows what he was doing. He certainly wasn't getting the ball in the opposition half and doing anything with it, that's for sure.
Likewise Luna. One thing Tony does well is what he did at Arsenal. He'll make the odd barnstorming run but he's not doing that at the moment, meaning all we see is his defensive prowess...which is shite.
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remember when we had posters queing up to sack Lambert and get Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis in, anyone that could keep us up
No. I genuinely don't remember anyone queueing up to get Allardyce in. Only Risso, and that doesn't mean a queue.
I also don't remember ever reading a single person wanting Pulis in.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
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We may be, as Everton were for seasons, a second half of the season side. I certainly hope so at the moment.
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We may be, as Everton were for seasons, a second half of the season side. I certainly hope so at the moment.
Well me too, because, compared to recent seasons, this first half of the season hasn't been all that bad, so the second half would be really good. It reminds me a bit of MON's first season.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
Did we?
I genuinely don't remember that, I recall it was hardly ever above 50 percent.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
I think it peaked after the millwall game - and to be honest can totally understand why at that point.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
I think it peaked after the millwall game - and to be honest can totally understand why at that point.
You are right, although I think the aftermath of the second leg with Bradford was pretty rough too.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
I think it peaked after the millwall game - and to be honest can totally understand why at that point.
You are right, although I think the aftermath of the second leg with Bradford was pretty rough too.
Yep, that was the lowpoint. Although I'm certain that nobody on here was in a queue to parachute Pullis or Sam into the hotseat.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
Not surprising though. Villa managers have been sacked for a lot less than what Lambert has served up so far.
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I'm baffled that the front 3 got 47 goals last season yet only have 8 combined this season at almost the half way mark. I'm also bemused that Clark and Vlaar were woeful last year yet excellent this season. Rather than 3 goalless draws with West Ham, Hull and Sunderland in my mind I have decided these 3 matches were all drawn 3 - 3 with the front 3 getting all the goals and Vlaar/Clark making elementary mistakes at the back. That way I find the start to the season much more easy to understand and slightly encouraging, the defence is still crap and the forwards dangerous and good. Is it as simplistic as this, he fact that position/points wise we have improved is tempered by the fact that we have been involved in fewer high scoring and therefore less exciting matches? I think it also depends on what you are comparing us too, as last season we finished 15th and therefore 11th is an improvement but from Feb to May our forn was equivalent to around 8th in the table and therefore we are falling behind that benchmark this season.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
Not surprising though. Villa managers have been sacked for a lot less than what Lambert has served up so far.
I said this at the time, but if you look at Lambert's record on paper at many points during last season, it would be really hard to conclude that those were not records which would get most managers sacked.
I thought that the wider picture, ie how we were playing, what we were trying to do, told a bigger story than sheer points on the board, though.
This year, it is the opposite. If you look at the table, and the points, it would be really hard to see a manager who deserves to get the sack.
However, if you look at the wider picture in terms of how we are being set up to play, and how we are actually playing, it is significantly less impressive.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
Not surprising though. Villa managers have been sacked for a lot less than what Lambert has served up so far.
I said this at the time, but if you look at Lambert's record on paper at many points during last season, it would be really hard to conclude that those were not records which would get most managers sacked.
I thought that the wider picture, ie how we were playing, what we were trying to do, told a bigger story than sheer points on the board, though.
This year, it is the opposite. If you look at the table, and the points, it would be really hard to see a manager who deserves to get the sack.
However, if you look at the wider picture in terms of how we are being set up to play, and how we are actually playing, it is significantly less impressive.
The table is very tight in the bottom half though paulie and a couple of defeats could easily see us in the bottom 6 - I think the next 4 games will tell is a lot about how the season will go.
Equally 3 wins from the next 4 games and we will be comfortably away from any trouble and able to look ahead with confidence.
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The table is very tight in the bottom half though paulie and a couple of defeats could easily see us in the bottom 6 - I think the next 4 games will tell is a lot about how the season will go.
Equally 3 wins from the next 4 games and we will be comfortably away from any trouble and able to look ahead with confidence.
That's a fair point.
I don't hold with the "yeah, but we're bound to get sucked into it" posse, but I equally don't hold with the "yeah, we're tenth" argument, either, because it strikes me as a bit risky to read too much into our position at any one point.
I am, in other words, quite firmly on the fence.
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I think the length of vlaar's absence will have a big part to play in how we do in the next few games - hopefully we will have him available soon because we look a much poorer defence without him.
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The table is very tight in the bottom half though paulie and a couple of defeats could easily see us in the bottom 6 - I think the next 4 games will tell is a lot about how the season will go.
Equally 3 wins from the next 4 games and we will be comfortably away from any trouble and able to look ahead with confidence.
That's a fair point.
I don't hold with the "yeah, but we're bound to get sucked into it" posse, but I equally don't hold with the "yeah, we're tenth" argument, either, because it strikes me as a bit risky to read too much into our position at any one point.
I am, in other words, quite firmly on the fence.
The only time our position will really matter is the moment the final whistle blows on our 38th game. Until then it'd be nice if we started playing better and improve our chances of maintaining where we are, or improving upon it. 2-3 decent jan signings would be nice too.
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We did have something like 80% wanting him sacked though.
I think it peaked after the millwall game - and to be honest can totally understand why at that point.
You are right, although I think the aftermath of the second leg with Bradford was pretty rough too.
If I remember rightly the poll got re-set two or three times until it finally tipped over into the majority wanting him gone. Normally after a bad defeat, so I feel it was more a knee jerk reaction to results than a balanced view of the job he had on and how long we should be patient for.
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I enjoyed a re-set.
Good times.
Anyhow, 6 points from the next 4 would move us further away from trouble. 3 or under would be underwhelming to say the least, I fancy us to get 5 in total though. Libor to lead the way.
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I remember I didn't exactly wanting him sacked, but I was leaning towards the opinion that it was a doomed experiment which was going horribly, horribly wrong and dragging him and his sanity down with it. The desperation towards the end of the Bradford match was pitiful to behold. However, like Delph (who reached his nadir in that Bradford match, a performance so bad it was kind of amazing), he really turned it around to the point where I became more optimistic about the Villa than I have been in years. Like many on here, I may have got over-optimistic and found the drudgery of this season quite disappointing, but there's no doubt in my mind that we have improved significantly on last year.
Anyway, I hope we pass as well as we did against United when we go to the Britannia, because that was a definite improvement on the previous few matches. It would be nice if my theory of him having enough after the Fulham match was to come true, and we begin to pass it at least as well as we did at the end of last season, but who knows - long road ahead.
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I'm pretty sure I never wanted him sacked. Unless I threw a paddy at some point which I have since forgotten about. Doubts obviously crept in, I don't think anybody avoided getting to that point at least. The end of the transfer window on top of the December and January results and performances was the lowest point. I'm going 7 points from the next four league games.
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I'm pretty sure the poll was set so as people could change their vote rather than it kept being set back to zero. I think for a week or so it hovered just above the 50% mark for wanting him gone.
And from what I remember it was only Risso and one or two others who were in favour of Sam. And amusingly, Roy Keane. Which still makes me loff.
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For about 2-3 days after the bradford game i didn't care what happened to him, I didn't think he could survive it after the way we finished that game (which was easily the worst we played last year, regardless of results, we just had a complete meltdown and went to the worst tactic possible in that situation, after looking like we were going to have enough going forward to win it even though we'd given them another cheap goal.
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For about 2-3 days after the bradford game i didn't care what happened to him, I didn't think he could survive it after the way we finished that game (which was easily the worst we played last year, regardless of results, we just had a complete meltdown and went to the worst tactic possible in that situation, after looking like we were going to have enough going forward to win it even though we'd given them another cheap goal.
To be pedantic "The way we finished the game" was actually quite good as we scored a late winner, the 2nd half up to that point however was chronic.
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For about 2-3 days after the bradford game i didn't care what happened to him, I didn't think he could survive it after the way we finished that game (which was easily the worst we played last year, regardless of results, we just had a complete meltdown and went to the worst tactic possible in that situation, after looking like we were going to have enough going forward to win it even though we'd given them another cheap goal.
To be pedantic "The way we finished the game" was actually quite good as we scored a late winner, the 2nd half up to that point however was chronic.
fair point but I meant the half hour before that where we played the exact style a league 2 club would've prayed for.
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I think if you read between the lines of his comments today about us being nowhere near where he wants us to be, and basically now being solid with character, we are not far down the road he wants to go down.
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I think if you read between the lines of his comments today about us being nowhere near where he wants us to be, and basically now being solid with character, we are not far down the road he wants to go down.
It's definitely a long term project. Last season was just about severe austerity and then survival. This year, he clearly wanted us to toughen up a bit and at least have a solid base. Having achieved a good deal of success towards that aim, we can now try and play a bit more. I'm sure he wants us to - we've played like that often enough, as did Norwich, to reach that conclusion.
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As I said a few pages back, next summer (or maybe Jan) will be very interesting in that regard. We have a big squad of his players now (15 signings) so he needs to change his approach now, there's no longer any reason or need to spread the finances thin so most of the signings from now should be with the intention of improving the side immediately. I think he'll still want younger players but i think we'll be in the Benteke/Okore market more often than the Bowery market.
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Many of his signings have been awful.
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Many of his signings have been awful.
Young players bought cheaply are generally a gamble, some come off, some don't.
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When PL came we were short on numbers who he trusted. He has rectified that now and has a squad of sufficient numbers to enable him to put out a reasonable team. From now on what he needs to do is upgrade the ability of the squad and any incoming bodies should be a step up in class to the one they replace.
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Many of his signings have been awful.
Young players bought cheaply are generally a gamble, some come off, some don't.
And at least we're not wasting £8m-£10m on average players anymore which are costing us a fortune in wages.
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Many of his signings have been awful.
Young players bought cheaply are generally a gamble, some come off, some don't.
And at least we're not wasting £8m-£10m on average players anymore which are costing us a fortune in wages.
And most of these are young enough that they can still improve.
Look how much stick Ron Vlaar got last season - i'll never understand why people are so quick to write off our players.
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Many of his signings have been awful.
Young players bought cheaply are generally a gamble, some come off, some don't.
And at least we're not wasting £8m-£10m on average players anymore which are costing us a fortune in wages.
And most of these are young enough that they can still improve.
Look how much stick Ron Vlaar got last season - i'll never understand why people are so quick to write off our players.
No, me neither. In some cases, it's absoutely ridiculous.
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Kozak at £7mill is hardly cheap when we already had Benteke, Helenius, Bowery, Gabby and Weimann.
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Kozak at £7mill is hardly cheap when we already had Benteke, Helenius, Bowery, Gabby and Weimann.
Kozak will prove a bargain in my opinion although I take your point that we had plenty of strikers and maybe there were more urgent priorities in the squad .
I don't think anyone could have expected to get to Xmas with Weimann and gabby only having one goal each in the league.
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Kozak at £7mill is hardly cheap when we already had Benteke, Helenius, Bowery, Gabby and Weimann.
Kozak will prove a bargain in my opinion although I take your point that we had plenty of strikers and maybe there were more urgent priorities in the squad .
I don't think anyone could have expected to get to Xmas with Weimann and gabby only having one goal each in the league.
Helinius is obviously not ready, See Bowery. Weiman and Benteke are out of form, you need other options
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I thought Kozak was £5m with add-ons.
I thought he was an odd signing too, given the strikers we already had. That said, Helenius is still too raw, possibility of being loaned out for a spell, and I don't see Bowery making it at this level. Gabby and Weimann have a league goal each. Benteke's form has totally dipped.
Kozak has three league goals in something like six starts.
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The key thing with Kozak is that everyone seems to think that if we hadn't signed him we could've got an attacking midfielder instead but I don't see any evidence to suggest that would've happened. As far as I'm concerned we didn't find the midfielder we wanted for a price we were willing to pay and then, in an unrelated event, a striker that Lambert was very interested in became available late in the window and the board backed him to get his man. If the midfielder had been available I think we'd have got both.
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The key thing with Kozak is that everyone seems to think that if we hadn't signed him we could've got an attacking midfielder instead but I don't see any evidence to suggest that would've happened. As far as I'm concerned we didn't find the midfielder we wanted for a price we were willing to pay and then, in an unrelated event, a striker that Lambert was very interested in became available late in the window and the board backed him to get his man. If the midfielder had been available I think we'd have got both.
Totally agree, I think he failed to get one target and got Kozak but that had both been available i think he would have got both - I don't think its a case of not having any money , more a case of not being able to get the player he wanted at that moment in time .
Seems clear he was looking for a midfielder with creativity and had also tracked Kozak for a long time in a different position .
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The key thing with Kozak is that everyone seems to think that if we hadn't signed him we could've got an attacking midfielder instead but I don't see any evidence to suggest that would've happened. As far as I'm concerned we didn't find the midfielder we wanted for a price we were willing to pay and then, in an unrelated event, a striker that Lambert was very interested in became available late in the window and the board backed him to get his man. If the midfielder had been available I think we'd have got both.
This seems to be too abstract a concept for people to grasp.
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I don't want him gone.
The reason we're crap is because we have have crap players. That's partly PL's fault admittedly but if you buy young £2m players you get a championship standard team. Which is what we are with the exceptions of Vlaar, Delph, Benteke & Guzan.
I don't expect us to be particularly good, but I do want us to be watchable. Like the end of last season. Which is why I was so concerned by the signing of Kozak. You just don't sign a 6'5" lump if you are intent on playing like Arsenal.
I hope the 'brand' of football we have seen so far this season isn't what we can expect from the rest of his reign. It's boring. I'm bored.
I think we'll go very close to going down- we look as bad as anyone in the league at the moment. But I don't see anyone else doing any better with the players available.
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The key thing with Kozak is that everyone seems to think that if we hadn't signed him we could've got an attacking midfielder instead but I don't see any evidence to suggest that would've happened. As far as I'm concerned we didn't find the midfielder we wanted for a price we were willing to pay and then, in an unrelated event, a striker that Lambert was very interested in became available late in the window and the board backed him to get his man. If the midfielder had been available I think we'd have got both.
This seems to be too abstract a concept for people to grasp.
there was never any suggestion of it either or from the manager. I think Lambert has specific targets in mind and he waits to get them. I'm sure they have players in mind in January that could very well have been on the radar from the summer.
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Quite possible that he may already have a deal in place for a midfielder in the summer similar to the way cabaye was supposedly lined up by houllier .
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I don't expect us to be particularly good. But I do want us to be watchable. Like the end of last season. Which is why I was so concerned by the signing of Kozak. You just don't sign a 6'5" lump if you are intent on playing like Arsenal.
Don't Arsenal have two recognised strikers on their books, one of whom is 6'5" and the other of whom is 6'4"?
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I don't expect us to be particularly good. But I do want us to be watchable. Like the end of last season. Which is why I was so concerned by the signing of Kozak. You just don't sign a 6'5" lump if you are intent on playing like Arsenal.
Don't Arsenal have two recognised strikers on their books, one of whom is 6'5" and the other of whom is 6'4"?
The key word being 'lump' (I'm pretty sure Bendtner isn't there through Wenger's choice by the way).
I don't rate Kozak to be honest and I believe Lambert bought him with a specific style of football in mind. I don't think he can play in a more 'progressive', shall we say, style.
I'd love to be wrong.
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Kozak actually looks good at laying the ball of when it's played into feet, so I think he could do a good job in a passing team.
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Kozak actually looks good at laying the ball of when it's played into feet, so I think he could do a good job in a passing team.
Certainly. Kozaks strength is certainly not challenging for aerial duels with his back to goal. When we hoof it to him he struggles, but give him some delivery when he's facing goal and he looks sharp, and he looks okay when the ball is played into his feet, not when he has to try and win headers with his back to goal, or chasing balls down the channel.
I actually think Libor could have a field day with Albrighton in the side, if Alby continues getting a good amount of balls in. He did against Utd, though often we didn't have enough players in the box to attack it, and Benteke was caught leaden footed a few times.
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I disagree completely. Kozaks strengths actually support us playing better football because he's not great with his back to goal and isn't particularly quick (he's not as slow as some have suggested though), if you play long balls you need a striker who is one of those things.
I can see him becoming a very good goalscorer by finding positions around the box to get 1 or 2 touch shots at goal, his goals so far back that up.
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I've really enjoyed this thread, a lot of sense being spoken. I, as many others, wanted him in the first place and thought he would bring a dynamic, direct but exciting brand of football with him. Granted, he hasn't had a lot of money to spend (more than the likes of Swansea, though) but he's got much worse squads playing a similar brand of entertaining football.
I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ...
Whilst I'm at it, why did he bring Bowery in? I really can't stand this signing not only because he wasn't showing any promise in league 2 (17 in 101, 0 goals in 4 appearances for Barrow) but because of the opportunity cost. He may not have cost much money, but while he is taking up a place on the bench & getting some game time, it means that our academy players and the likes of Helenius don't have a hope of showing what they can do in the first team.
Having said that, allow him to bring in a couple of players that can make an immediate impact and give him the rest of the season to show us that he has what it takes to move us forward. If he can't, I dread to think who Lerner will appoint.
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I don't expect us to be particularly good. But I do want us to be watchable. Like the end of last season. Which is why I was so concerned by the signing of Kozak. You just don't sign a 6'5" lump if you are intent on playing like Arsenal.
Don't Arsenal have two recognised strikers on their books, one of whom is 6'5" and the other of whom is 6'4"?
The key word being 'lump'
I'd say that 'lump' is a pretty shit word rather than a key word.
Kozak's not Suarez, but he's hardly Dean Windass either.
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I've really enjoyed this thread, a lot of sense being spoken. I, as many others, wanted him in the first place and thought he would bring a dynamic, direct but exciting brand of football with him. Granted, he hasn't had a lot of money to spend (more than the likes of Swansea, though) but he's got much worse squads playing a similar brand of entertaining football.
I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ...
Whilst I'm at it, why did he bring Bowery in? I really can't stand this signing not only because he wasn't showing any promise in league 2 (17 in 101, 0 goals in 4 appearances for Barrow) but because of the opportunity cost. He may not have cost much money, but while he is taking up a place on the bench & getting some game time, it means that our academy players and the likes of Helenius don't have a hope of showing what they can do in the first team.
Having said that, allow him to bring in a couple of players that can make an immediate impact and give him the rest of the season to show us that he has what it takes to move us forward. If he can't, I dread to think who Lerner will appoint.
Interesting opinions and 1st post - welcome.
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I don't expect us to be particularly good. But I do want us to be watchable. Like the end of last season. Which is why I was so concerned by the signing of Kozak. You just don't sign a 6'5" lump if you are intent on playing like Arsenal.
Don't Arsenal have two recognised strikers on their books, one of whom is 6'5" and the other of whom is 6'4"?
The key word being 'lump'
I'd say that 'lump' is a pretty shit word rather than a key word.
Kozak's not Suarez, but he's hardly Dean Windass either.
I can accept he's better than Dean Windass and maybe lump is unfair.
But the point is I am concerned that his signing is symptomatic of the direction the style of football has gone this season. Even when we were at our worst last season we didn't play as directly as we are this season. And it is god awful to watch.
I hope it's just a phase and that Kozak will turn out to be a decent footballer. However, bar one game, Lambert hasn't picked him over a player that has seemingly forgotten how to play football. Which is a bit of a concern.
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I honestly think that Lambert thought we would ket Kiyotake in the summer. When it emerged that we wouldn't get him, but that Kozak ( a long-term target) was available, he did what he did.
I for one actually think Kozak will be a good signing for us. I don't think he'l be easy on the eye, but I think he'll score a lot of scrappy goals for us in the next few seasons.
On the subject of Lambert going, I would worry, as I simply can't think of a realistic replacement who would do any better....? I braced myself for 2 or 3 seasons of inconsistent dross when it became apparent the money had dried-up again. As long as this is coupled with improved league-positions each season I'll continue to back Lambert.
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I don't expect us to be particularly good. But I do want us to be watchable. Like the end of last season. Which is why I was so concerned by the signing of Kozak. You just don't sign a 6'5" lump if you are intent on playing like Arsenal.
Don't Arsenal have two recognised strikers on their books, one of whom is 6'5" and the other of whom is 6'4"?
The key word being 'lump'
I'd say that 'lump' is a pretty shit word rather than a key word.
Kozak's not Suarez, but he's hardly Dean Windass either.
I'll tell you what I didn't see that much difference between Ricky Lambert and Kozak in the game at Southampton and Lambert plays for England. Calling him a lump is not close to being accurate.
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I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ...
Yep, we are absolutely crying out for a creative midfielder. Was there not one in the whole of world football who would have improved us and was attainable? Maybe there wasn't but I'd hate to think that was the case.
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I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ...
Yep, we are absolutely crying out for a creative midfielder. Was there not one in the whole of world football who would have improved us and was attainable? Maybe there wasn't but I'd hate to think that was the case.
Unless of course he has someone lined up who is well worth waiting for - hopefully we will find out one way or another soon enough.
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PL doesn't come across as a mug, so he must see that our midfield is so one dimensional at the minute and that a different kind of midfielder is needed, well i effing hope he does.
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I've really enjoyed this thread, a lot of sense being spoken. I, as many others, wanted him in the first place and thought he would bring a dynamic, direct but exciting brand of football with him. Granted, he hasn't had a lot of money to spend (more than the likes of Swansea, though) but he's got much worse squads playing a similar brand of entertaining football.
I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ...
Whilst I'm at it, why did he bring Bowery in? I really can't stand this signing not only because he wasn't showing any promise in league 2 (17 in 101, 0 goals in 4 appearances for Barrow) but because of the opportunity cost. He may not have cost much money, but while he is taking up a place on the bench & getting some game time, it means that our academy players and the likes of Helenius don't have a hope of showing what they can do in the first team.
Having said that, allow him to bring in a couple of players that can make an immediate impact and give him the rest of the season to show us that he has what it takes to move us forward. If he can't, I dread to think who Lerner will appoint.
I get where you're coming from with Bowery. I wouldn't say he's fluffed it with Kozak.
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PL doesn't come across as a mug, so he must see that our midfield is so one dimensional at the minute and that a different kind of midfielder is needed, well i effing hope he does.
In that case he must also observe that whoever he selects in the full back positions cannot actually defend with any kind of quality.
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PL doesn't come across as a mug, so he must see that our midfield is so one dimensional at the minute and that a different kind of midfielder is needed, well i effing hope he does.
In that case he must also observe that whoever he selects in the full back positions cannot actually defend with any kind of quality.
But don't you think we could get away with that given Clark's improved form, and if Vlaar and Okore were fit, if the front 3 were banging in goals for fun like last season and we signed a creative midfielder?
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I agree that Luna is finding it hard so far and we have been unlucky with Bennett's injury as he finished last season well, Bacuna has played well in some games and awful in others, but far too often they have been exposed by lack of support from midfielders. If Albrighton has a run that may help on the right ( or Bacuna in midfield ) and Delph was missed a lot against Utd.
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PL doesn't come across as a mug, so he must see that our midfield is so one dimensional at the minute and that a different kind of midfielder is needed, well i effing hope he does.
In that case he must also observe that whoever he selects in the full back positions cannot actually defend with any kind of quality.
But don't you think we could get away with that given Clark's improved form, and if Vlaar and Okore were fit, if the front 3 were banging in goals for fun like last season and we signed a creative midfielder?
Mr Zimmermann, if all the ifs in that sentence were true we would probably be in the top 4!
As a very good midfielder himself, I am sure Lambert is as aware as anybody of our weaknesses there. Him doing something about it (please make it quick) is the part I am looking forward to.
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I agree that Luna is finding it hard so far and we have been unlucky with Bennett's injury as he finished last season well, Bacuna has played well in some games and awful in others, but far too often they have been exposed by lack of support from midfielders.
I agree. Two of Man Utd's goals last week came from sloppy passes in midfield.
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I'm on the fence at the moment. These next four games will decide a lot for me.
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I'm on the fence at the moment. These next four games will decide a lot for me.
I personally think that anything less than six points from the next four games would be enough to set some serious alarm bells ringing. A Christmas without Vlaar worries me.
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I've really enjoyed this thread, a lot of sense being spoken. I, as many others, wanted him in the first place and thought he would bring a dynamic, direct but exciting brand of football with him. Granted, he hasn't had a lot of money to spend (more than the likes of Swansea, though) but he's got much worse squads playing a similar brand of entertaining football.
I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ...
Whilst I'm at it, why did he bring Bowery in? I really can't stand this signing not only because he wasn't showing any promise in league 2 (17 in 101, 0 goals in 4 appearances for Barrow) but because of the opportunity cost. He may not have cost much money, but while he is taking up a place on the bench & getting some game time, it means that our academy players and the likes of Helenius don't have a hope of showing what they can do in the first team.
Having said that, allow him to bring in a couple of players that can make an immediate impact and give him the rest of the season to show us that he has what it takes to move us forward. If he can't, I dread to think who Lerner will appoint.
great first post . a lot of sense
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I agree that Luna is finding it hard so far and we have been unlucky with Bennett's injury as he finished last season well, Bacuna has played well in some games and awful in others, but far too often they have been exposed by lack of support from midfielders.
I agree. Two of Man Utd's goals last week came from sloppy passes in midfield.
All of their goals came from sloppy play in possession by us and all of them involved more than one player running into the left back channel. The first was particularly poor from Baker, he gave no support to Luna, who had half an eye on Rafael, to stop the cross and then when the cross came in he was a few yards away from Welbeck so when the ball came back out he was unchallenged and just needed to get a decent contact to score a sitter.
Personally I think both Luna and Bennett are good footballers and are worth persevering with but we need to have more of the ball to stop them being targeted and we need to support them better when the opposition fullbacks come forward.
I'm now at the stage where I don't really trust him. I don't want to load him with what limited resources we have and have him fluff it like he did with Kozak. It may sound harsh and I'm more than prepared to stick by him, but it was glaringly obvious that we needed quality creative players rather than another big man up front ... Unless you WANT to play long ball football. To think we paid £7m for a 24 year old who has scored 10 in 58 (4 in 30 for Seria B team Brescia) just incase something went to pot with Benteke ...
As I said in the post directly above yours, Kozak isn't good with his back to goal so regardless of how big he is he's not suited to long ball football in the slightest. People really need to stop focusing on his height and start paying attention to what he actually does on the pitch. One of the best strikers in the world for the last decade or so is a big tall guy who isn't a target man (although Zlatan is so good that he holds the ball up as well as anyone despite being far better when he gets his head up and is facing the goal) and yet people still have a mindset that a tall striker is there to win headers and put himself about.
Yep, we are absolutely crying out for a creative midfielder. Was there not one in the whole of world football who would have improved us and was attainable? Maybe there wasn't but I'd hate to think that was the case.
You haven't paid attention the way we've gone about things under Lambert, we do our homework on players now and build a full scout report (the 30page dossier on Westwood is the well known example, as is the fact that we were looking at Kozak for months). The disadvantage of that approach is that you're only really going to get that level of detail on a handful of players in each position so we probably had 2-3 players in the creative midfielder role that we were considering, it's pretty clear that Kiyotake was one of them. If none of those were available you either stick with what you have or you gamble on someone you're not sure about. Personally I'd rather we do the former because very few of the late gambles pay off.
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As I said in the post directly above yours, Kozak isn't good with his back to goal so regardless of how big he is he's not suited to long ball football in the slightest. People really need to stop focusing on his height and start paying attention to what he actually does on the pitch. One of the best strikers in the world for the last decade or so is a big tall guy who isn't a target man (although Zlatan is so good that he holds the ball up as well as anyone despite being far better when he gets his head up and is facing the goal) and yet people still have a mindset that a tall striker is there to win headers and put himself about.
Unfortunately, those people seem to include our entire defence and midfield.
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As I said in the post directly above yours, Kozak isn't good with his back to goal so regardless of how big he is he's not suited to long ball football in the slightest. People really need to stop focusing on his height and start paying attention to what he actually does on the pitch. One of the best strikers in the world for the last decade or so is a big tall guy who isn't a target man (although Zlatan is so good that he holds the ball up as well as anyone despite being far better when he gets his head up and is facing the goal) and yet people still have a mindset that a tall striker is there to win headers and put himself about.
Unfortunately, those people seem to include our entire defence and midfield.
I agree totally, that's the biggest challenge Lambert has, he really needs to stop the team banging it long, Benteke is so good a focal point that it's become too easy.
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In answer to the OP it would depend on who we could get instead, and that's impossible to say in advance. I wouldn't be devastated if he went but it's very easy to do the frying pan to fire trick with managers.
Last season he was rightly cut a lot of slack, especially as he had a small budget and seemed to want to develop a footballing, passing, pressing style, which sometimes showed through and sometimes not.
This year the expectation should have been to sign players a notch or two up from last year's signings and to kick on a little. I suppose we have done in terms of points and results but in just about every other aspect - tactics, possession, hard work, quality of signings, confidence, style of play - we seem to have gone backwards. It certainly doesn't feel as if we are moving forwards or even moving towards some kind of coherent ideal.
Many managers have been sacked for the same or less (Clarke and AVB?), so he's probably already relying on the owner's patience. But having said all that I still somehow have a gut feeling there is a good manager in there somewhere.
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In answer to the OP it would depend on who we could get instead, and that's impossible to say in advance. I wouldn't be devastated if he went but it's very easy to do the frying pan to fire trick with managers.
Last season he was rightly cut a lot of slack, especially as he had a small budget and seemed to want to develop a footballing, passing, pressing style, which sometimes showed through and sometimes not.
This year the expectation should have been to sign players a notch or two up from last year's signings and to kick on a little. I suppose we have done in terms of points and results but in just about every other aspect - tactics, possession, hard work, quality of signings, confidence, style of play - we seem to have gone backwards. It certainly doesn't feel as if we are moving forwards or even moving towards some kind of coherent ideal.
Many managers have been sacked for the same or less (Clarke and AVB?), so he's probably already relying on the owner's patience. But having said all that I still somehow have a gut feeling there is a good manager in there somewhere.
I would say points and results is the bottom line he should be judged on.
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I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. I've only read the first page and frankly it's an embarrassing read.
I know people want immediate success but it was never going to be realistic with what we've got. We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening. With the way football seems to be going and even the top clubs shipping 5 or 6 goals against each other, it's going to happen.
Our players and manager need continued support.
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All of their goals came from sloppy play in possession by us and all of them involved more than one player running into the left back channel. The first was particularly poor from Baker, he gave no support to Luna, who had half an eye on Rafael, to stop the cross and then when the cross came in he was a few yards away from Welbeck so when the ball came back out he was unchallenged and just needed to get a decent contact to score a sitter...
Sylla was most at fault for the first, for failing to get the block on Rafael some way out; but I agree Baker was horribly out of position and seemingly mesmerised by the ball rather than the players around him.
I have thought for a while that Baker is a weak link, simply becuase in today's game all CB have to be able to play the ball out of dfence comfortably and competently. Baker's distribution is shockingly bad.
I think there is some potential in Luna, and possibly with Sylla although I'm beginning to doubt the latter.
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I don't think it really matters what Kozak had scored before he came here because he has 3 goals for us which makes 2nd top high scorer, I don't think the stick he's getting is deserved
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I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. I've only read the first page and frankly it's an embarrassing read.
I know people want immediate success but it was never going to be realistic with what we've got. We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening. With the way football seems to be going and even the top clubs shipping 5 or 6 goals against each other, it's going to happen.
Our players and manager need continued support.
I'm sorry but there's no excuse for the shit performances we've had to watch recently. I'll get behind a plan when I see evidence of it being carried out.
I don't want him sacked just yet but there has to be signs of improvement soon!
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We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening.
Ok, what exactly are we building ?. That's what I want to know anyway.
A team of youngish players on the cheap?, yes I can see that.
But what good is that if overall they're not good enough and the style of football is dire ?
What exactly is the plan for the future ?
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I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. I've only read the first page and frankly it's an embarrassing read.
I know people want immediate success but it was never going to be realistic with what we've got. We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening. With the way football seems to be going and even the top clubs shipping 5 or 6 goals against each other, it's going to happen.
Our players and manager need continued support.
I'm sorry but there's no excuse for the shit performances we've had to watch recently.
New players getting used to this league, other players suffering second season syndrome, injuries/suspensions to further players - all meaning there has been no settled lineup this season. You may not find these reasons acceptable but to say there are no excuses isn't actually true.
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We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening.
Ok, what exactly are we building ?. That's what I want to know anyway.
A team of youngish players on the cheap?, yes I can see that.
But what good is that if overall they're not good enough and the style of football is dire ?
What exactly is the plan for the future ?
To improve year on year. So far it's working.
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I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. I've only read the first page and frankly it's an embarrassing read.
I know people want immediate success but it was never going to be realistic with what we've got. We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening. With the way football seems to be going and even the top clubs shipping 5 or 6 goals against each other, it's going to happen.
Our players and manager need continued support.
I'm sorry but there's no excuse for the shit performances we've had to watch recently.
New players getting used to this league, other players suffering second season syndrome, injuries/suspensions to further players - all meaning there has been no settled lineup this season. You may not find these reasons acceptable but to say there are no excuses isn't actually true.
I can understand the first two to a certain extent. Injuries and suspensions happen to every team though.
I just want to see us actually resemble a football team.
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I just want to see us actually resemble a football team.
I'm supportive of Lambert, don't want to see him sacked and really hope he becomes a success here but the above sums up how I have felt watching the last 2 "performances". A semblance of competence wouldn't go amiss surely. I go to Stoke tomorrow in hope.
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I thought
the signs were good as we looked a really good team to watch and were picking up points and results from feb onwards but this season 2 or 3 players have kicked on and improved whereas quite a few more have failed to match the standard of last season.
Vlaar, Delph and Clark have all looked much better this season .
Lowton, gabby, Weimann, Westwood, sylla, benteke have underperformed.
We need those players back on form sooner rather than later.
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I really wish I hadn't opened this thread. I've only read the first page and frankly it's an embarrassing read.
I know people want immediate success but it was never going to be realistic with what we've got. We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening. With the way football seems to be going and even the top clubs shipping 5 or 6 goals against each other, it's going to happen.
Our players and manager need continued support.
I'm sorry but there's no excuse for the shit performances we've had to watch recently.
New players getting used to this league, other players suffering second season syndrome, injuries/suspensions to further players - all meaning there has been no settled lineup this season. You may not find these reasons acceptable but to say there are no excuses isn't actually true.
I can understand the first two to a certain extent. Injuries and suspensions happen to every team though.
I just want to see us actually resemble a football team.
Injuries and suspension do happen to every team, and I suspect any team in the league with 4-5 defenders out injured at the same time would have a bit of a rough time of it.
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We have 4-5 defenders injured? Vlaar and Okore are the main two. Bennett is injured too but he's not a huge loss compared to Vlaar/Okore. Can't think of anyone else.
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Lowton and Baker have both had issues this season. Health wise I meant
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
No, not really but coming on here whinging about it every day is not going to help.
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We need to build and plan for the future which is precisely what's happening.
Ok, what exactly are we building ?. That's what I want to know anyway.
A team of youngish players on the cheap?, yes I can see that.
But what good is that if overall they're not good enough and the style of football is dire ?
What exactly is the plan for the future ?
To improve year on year. So far it's working.
Bit early to say that, surely? He's had one full season, and it's too early to judge this season.
I am not too sure improving every year per se is enough, anyway. 16th then 15th then 14th then 13th, for example, isn't going to win anyone over.
I think really there needs to be a decent chunk of evidence on the pitch that we're starting to play a bit more. We had that in spells last year, this year it has been far harder to spot, hence people tending to be less happy.
I don't necessarily agree with the extent to which some will take it - declaring us as good as down is as daft as declaring us as on for a top half finish at this point - but it is really hard to look at our last dozen matches plus and take much heart from the quality of play on offer.
It's hard to blame anyone for finding that a bit depressing.
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
No, not really but coming on here whinging about it every day is not going to help.
Isn't a forum a place where you're meant to discuss things?
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
No, not really but coming on here whinging about it every day is not going to help.
Isn't a forum a place where you're meant to discuss things?
As someone said to me back in the early days of H&V, "if you moan about everything you lose all credibility."
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
No, not really but coming on here whinging about it every day is not going to help.
Isn't a forum a place where you're meant to discuss things?
Indeed it is mate!
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
No, not really but coming on here whinging about it every day is not going to help.
Isn't a forum a place where you're meant to discuss things?
Yeah course it is, but it's the easiest thing in the world to come on here day after day and say everything's shit. It's not as if we're in the bottom three.
I slaughtered Lambert for the defence he picked against Fulham and I thought the midfield last week was bloody woeful. I'm just looking to tomorrow's game now though because those games have gone.
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
No, not really but coming on here whinging about it every day is not going to help.
Isn't a forum a place where you're meant to discuss things?
Yeah course it is, but it's the easiest thing in the world to come on here day after day and say everything's shit. It's not as if we're in the bottom three.
I slaughtered Lambert for the defence he picked against Fulham and I thought the midfield last week was bloody woeful. I'm just looking to tomorrow's game now though because those games have gone.
We've got to pick ourselves up and go again haven't we? *winky thing*
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It seems like forever since I posted here.
I get the sense that because we as fans believed in this new approach that Lambert was taking, it makes it just that much harder to accept that it is not working. In any other circumstance now, the quality of football on display would have prompted a far greater fan response and pitchfork and burning torch protests on the Witton Lane. But somehow, because we all bought into the notion of ‘young and hungry, it makes it so damn hard to admit that it not exactly going as we planned it too.
Lambert strikes me as a man of real conviction and I just cannot see him changing his approach for one single moment, which means that we as the fans are just going to have to keep on believing in this chemistry experiment.
I just wish that there was some glimmer of hope that things are truly turning a corner at Villa Park, as were I still to be living in the UK and holder of a season ticket, my patience would be being tested to the very limits of human endurance.
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We have 4-5 defenders injured? Vlaar and Okore are the main two. Bennett is injured too but he's not a huge loss compared to Vlaar/Okore. Can't think of anyone else.
A few weeks ago - we had luna, bennett, okore and baker all out and clark carrying a knock. We've had 3 defenders out pretty much every game since the window closed.
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Come on gents it's Christmas time...
...it's the perfect time to have a bloody good moan.
Lambert out!
;D
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In answer to the OP it would depend on who we could get instead, and that's impossible to say in advance. I wouldn't be devastated if he went but it's very easy to do the frying pan to fire trick with managers.
Last season he was rightly cut a lot of slack, especially as he had a small budget and seemed to want to develop a footballing, passing, pressing style, which sometimes showed through and sometimes not.
This year the expectation should have been to sign players a notch or two up from last year's signings and to kick on a little. I suppose we have done in terms of points and results but in just about every other aspect - tactics, possession, hard work, quality of signings, confidence, style of play - we seem to have gone backwards. It certainly doesn't feel as if we are moving forwards or even moving towards some kind of coherent ideal.
Many managers have been sacked for the same or less (Clarke and AVB?), so he's probably already relying on the owner's patience. But having said all that I still somehow have a gut feeling there is a good manager in there somewhere.
I would say points and results is the bottom line he should be judged on.
Indeed it's what counts the most and it was the main argument in defence of MON. And with greatly reduced resources maybe we should be satisfied if we can grind our way up the table little by little to start with. But I still think it would be nice to see a positive bigger picture underlying that, such as signs of an emerging style of play that isn't based only around "hoof" at home and counter attack away, some evidence of tactical nous and flexibility, and indication that the players might be able to take us further in the longer term and so on. I felt I could see some of that last season, this one I'm not so sure.
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Once we get to new year everyone will have played each other once so we will have a level playing field to judge how we are doing - 4 games ahead on paper are all winnable but we are unpredictable so who knows what they will bring .
In an ideal world we will get Vlaar fit and benteke scoring again and kick on from there .
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BoskoDjembaSalifou and his now daily whinge of all things crap. We're 11th.
I take it you're satisfied with our recent performances?
No, not really but coming on here whinging about it every day is not going to help.
Isn't a forum a place where you're meant to discuss things?
And the key word you use there is "discuss".
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Ecstatic. He deserves the sack far more than any of the managers that have had the bullet so far.
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I think the scariest thing would be who Lerner would appoint next. Honestly, I think Lambert's the best he could ever appoint.
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I think the scariest thing would be who Lerner would appoint next. Honestly, I think Lambert's the best he could ever appoint.
Anyone would be better than Lambert
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I think the scariest thing would be who Lerner would appoint next. Honestly, I think Lambert's the best he could ever appoint.
Anyone would be better than Lambert
Really. They wouldn't. Look at his predecessor for a start.
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Who is available?
Who would want the job?
Who would work under such tight financial constraint?
I think there are three worse teams than us - but its all so very depressing
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Taxi for Mr Lambert
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Who is available?
Who would want the job?
Who would work under such tight financial constraint?
I think there are three worse teams than us - but its all so very depressing
Malky Mackay?
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Can I be the first to label Lambert -" TSM 2"
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The depressing thing is if we do stay up the way things are with the current board and manager we will go down eventually, probably next season.
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Can I be the first to label Lambert -" TSM 2"
He has previously been referred to as TOSM.
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I think the scariest thing would be who Lerner would appoint next. Honestly, I think Lambert's the best he could ever appoint.
Anyone would be better than Lambert
Really. They wouldn't. Look at his predecessor for a start.
Can't really see that much difference to be honest. Our football is dire and Lambert is tactically inept. A club like Villa should not be accepting this because they can't think they can get anyone better than a man who has broken practically every negative record there is to break.
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Question marks currently over the manager, the owner and 70% of the players. It's no wonder we aren't very good.
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I dont want Lambert to go. I want him to get better.
He should have reacted to the Adam substitution today. He did not.
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I can't shake the feeling that Lambert has used up any credit he had with this squad. However he sets them up, they look awful. They just don't seem interested in being a team.
It may be knee-jerk, but there needs to be a huge incoming (in the form of at least one quality player) or an outgoing (in the form of Lambert going) to change the way things are headed at the Villa.
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Who is available?
Who would want the job?
Who would work under such tight financial constraint?
I think there are three worse teams than us - but its all so very depressing
Malky Mackay?
No thanks. He's just this season's Paul Lambert (at Norwich)
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Can I be the first to label Lambert -" TSM 2"
He's just as bad as McLeish. The only thing that saves him is that he didn't come from Small Heath.
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Who is available?
Who would want the job?
Who would work under such tight financial constraint?
I think there are three worse teams than us - but its all so very depressing
Malky Mackay?
No thanks. He's just this season's Paul Lambert (at Norwich)
He's nowhere near that good. Automatically sainted because his owner is a prick.
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I think the scariest thing would be who Lerner would appoint next. Honestly, I think Lambert's the best he could ever appoint.
Anyone would be better than Lambert
Really. They wouldn't. Look at his predecessor for a start.
Can't really see that much difference to be honest. Our football is dire and Lambert is tactically inept. A club like Villa should not be accepting this because they can't think they can get anyone better than a man who has broken practically every negative record there is to break.
The difference is that Lambert knows this is piss, but may or may not be able to change it; McLeish wouldn't have thought there was anything wrong.
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Who is it that's telling Guzan to hoof the ball from back to front then?
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No thanks. He's just this season's Paul Lambert (at Norwich)
I disagree, I think Mackay's played coherent, modern, passing football at all times so far in his short career.
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I wonder season ticket holders will start getting those phone calls from the club again asking if they plan to renew.
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New Poll?
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I wonder season ticket holders will start getting those phone calls from the club again asking if they plan to renew.
Thanks to Viagogo I have been able to sell some of my tickets where the fixtures have been shifted and I have actually made money on the deals, even after the hefty charges - I was persuaded by the promotional team this season to renew, however after watching the absolute dross on offer this year I very much I doubt I will renew next season - the sad thing is that just 3 or 4 inspired (experienced) signings could make some difference this season but it does not look like that is likely.
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As so many others have said before, it's not so much the results as the tactics and the absolutely dire football.
If we were still passing the ball around like last season there'd be more patience but frankly what's the point turning up to watch players with no skill, no excitement lump the ball in the air for 90 minutes - the thing is we're not even any good in the air, it really beggars belief.
I would love to know where the Lerner/Lambert balance is. Just how much is Lambert having his hands tied here? He would say these are his decisions but many on here believe Lerner has set a wage cap.
Even with those conditions in place Lambert is hugely underperforming with getting his players to play coherently and to defend and attack set pieces properly.
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Right now I'd take John Gregory until the end of the season. Somebody that knows the club, would be willing to work with what his got and could give the youngsters a boost of confidence. He'd also have us passing the ball and moving. It would give us time to find a long term replacement, preferably from the continent.
Keeping Lambert now is only delaying the obvious.
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I would like to be able to sit down and follow a Villa game with absolutely no idea what the outcome will be. At least then it might indicate we've got some positive intent.
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Right now I'd take John Gregory until the end of the season. Somebody that knows the club, would be willing to work with what his got and could give the youngsters a boost of confidence. He'd also have us passing the ball and moving. It would give us time to find a long term replacement, preferably from the continent.
Keeping Lambert now is only delaying the obvious.
Have you been at the Sagres again? John Gregory?
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Right now I'd take John Gregory until the end of the season. Somebody that knows the club, would be willing to work with what his got and could give the youngsters a boost of confidence. He'd also have us passing the ball and moving. It would give us time to find a long term replacement, preferably from the continent.
Keeping Lambert now is only delaying the obvious.
Have you been at the Sagres again? John Gregory?
Ha! I'm assuming it will take the board 3 months to find their man so we'll need a stop gap. Gregory would keep us up. I'm not sure Lambert will.
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I want a manager that will play to score as many goals as possible and disregard the amount of goals we conceded. A manager with the attitude of "you can score 4, but we'll score 5".
Lambert had that at the end of last season, but it's deserted him. Can he get it back?
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Right now I'd take John Gregory until the end of the season. Somebody that knows the club, would be willing to work with what his got and could give the youngsters a boost of confidence. He'd also have us passing the ball and moving. It would give us time to find a long term replacement, preferably from the continent.
Keeping Lambert now is only delaying the obvious.
Have you been at the Sagres again? John Gregory?
Ha! I'm assuming it will take the board 3 months to find their man so we'll need a stop gap. Gregory would keep us up. I'm not sure Lambert will.
Dear Lord, Mark, get a grip.
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I want a manager that will play to score as many goals as possible and disregard the amount of goals we conceded. A manager with the attitude of "you can score 4, but we'll score 5".
Lambert had that at the end of last season, but it's deserted him. Can he get it back?
I think he needs to, and quickly, because much as his support was extraordinarily resolute last season, it's not looking too clever lately.
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Do you think PL is frightened of making a "big" signing?
Sissokho on a free would have been an inspired signing, Ince would be a good long term buy, but expensive now, and Belhanda wanted too much money.But i have to say we would'nt be where we are now, and i wonder if he likes having fledglings to control, is Villa too big a club for him,
We will see in the next 3/4 weeks, if we don't get two wins in the next two home games, then he needs to show some mettle with RL and insist on being, finally , backed.If not then he's not the manager i thought/hoped he'd be.
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He needs money, not sacking in my view. But he also needs either Culverhouse or Karsa to sit him down and say "these two players will cost 15m between them but add quality and experience - get them!"
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22 months ago Wolves fans wanted Mick McCarthy out. They got their wish and went from the PL to League 1.
I ain't happy at all with what is happening but be careful what you wish for.......UTV
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I want a manager that will play to score as many goals as possible and disregard the amount of goals we conceded. A manager with the attitude of "you can score 4, but we'll score 5".
Lambert had that at the end of last season, but it's deserted him. Can he get it back?
I think he needs to, and quickly, because much as his support was extraordinarily resolute last season, it's not looking too clever lately.
Don't beat Palace and Swansea I think could get pretty hostile second half if we are losing.
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I think the problem we have is that we're not actually getting any better.
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Do you think PL is frightened of making a "big" signing?
Sissokho on a free would have been an inspired signing, Ince would be a good long term buy, but expensive now, and Belhanda wanted too much money.But i have to say we would'nt be where we are now, and i wonder if he likes having fledglings to control, is Villa too big a club for him,
We will see in the next 3/4 weeks, if we don't get two wins in the next two home games, then he needs to show some mettle with RL and insist on being, finally , backed.If not then he's not the manager i thought/hoped he'd be.
We're supposed to be competing with clubs like Newcastle.
Look at their squad, then look at our squad. I totally appreciate the arguments why we've a worse squad than Newcastle, but look at the gap, not just the fact theirs is better, look at by how much it is better.
The absolute worse thing he can do is by more of the same sort of players yet again in January. Do that, and another mediocre finish (or worse) and I really think the entire plan needs looking at again.
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Do you think PL is frightened of making a "big" signing?
Sissokho on a free would have been an inspired signing, Ince would be a good long term buy, but expensive now, and Belhanda wanted too much money.But i have to say we would'nt be where we are now, and i wonder if he likes having fledglings to control, is Villa too big a club for him,
We will see in the next 3/4 weeks, if we don't get two wins in the next two home games, then he needs to show some mettle with RL and insist on being, finally , backed.If not then he's not the manager i thought/hoped he'd be.
I don't think he's afraid but he does seem to want to have a point to prove. As Paul e (and maybe someone else, or maybe Paul said it twice) said, his £4 million + signings are fine, it's the cheap ones that let him down. He can pick up good stuff at Aldi, just keep him out of the 99p shop.
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Do you think PL is frightened of making a "big" signing?
Sissokho on a free would have been an inspired signing, Ince would be a good long term buy, but expensive now, and Belhanda wanted too much money.But i have to say we would'nt be where we are now, and i wonder if he likes having fledglings to control, is Villa too big a club for him,
We will see in the next 3/4 weeks, if we don't get two wins in the next two home games, then he needs to show some mettle with RL and insist on being, finally , backed.If not then he's not the manager i thought/hoped he'd be.
We're supposed to be competing with clubs like Newcastle.
Look at their squad, then look at our squad. I totally appreciate the arguments why we've a worse squad than Newcastle, but look at the gap, not just the fact theirs is better, look at by how much it is better.
The absolute worse thing he can do is by more of the same sort of players yet again in January. Do that, and another mediocre finish (or worse) and I really think the entire plan needs looking at again.
I agree we've filled out the squad, we need quality additions now.
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Do you think PL is frightened of making a "big" signing?
Sissokho on a free would have been an inspired signing, Ince would be a good long term buy, but expensive now, and Belhanda wanted too much money.But i have to say we would'nt be where we are now, and i wonder if he likes having fledglings to control, is Villa too big a club for him,
We will see in the next 3/4 weeks, if we don't get two wins in the next two home games, then he needs to show some mettle with RL and insist on being, finally , backed.If not then he's not the manager i thought/hoped he'd be.
I don't think he's afraid but he does seem to want to have a point to prove. As Paul e (and maybe someone else, or maybe Paul said it twice) said, his £4 million + signings are fine, it's the cheap ones that let him down. He can pick up good stuff at Aldi, just keep him out of the 99p shop.
Maybe the problem is that when you buy players from the lower leagues for 1m or so, you ultimately get players who have only played in the lower leagues, and are worth 1m because, well, they're not very good yet.
I keep saying it, but it seems obvious to me - if the buying loads of cheap young players thing was that easy, everyone would be doing it. In fact, when has it ever worked in this league?
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Right now I'd take John Gregory until the end of the season. Somebody that knows the club, would be willing to work with what his got and could give the youngsters a boost of confidence. He'd also have us passing the ball and moving. It would give us time to find a long term replacement, preferably from the continent.
Keeping Lambert now is only delaying the obvious.
Have you been at the Sagres again? John Gregory?
Ha! I'm assuming it will take the board 3 months to find their man so we'll need a stop gap. Gregory would keep us up. I'm not sure Lambert will.
Dear Lord, Mark, get a grip.
Ha! Well if you can think of a better short term solution that can keep us up until the end of the season and won't cost a fortune, fire away.
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Right now I'd take John Gregory until the end of the season. Somebody that knows the club, would be willing to work with what his got and could give the youngsters a boost of confidence. He'd also have us passing the ball and moving. It would give us time to find a long term replacement, preferably from the continent.
Keeping Lambert now is only delaying the obvious.
Have you been at the Sagres again? John Gregory?
Ha! I'm assuming it will take the board 3 months to find their man so we'll need a stop gap. Gregory would keep us up. I'm not sure Lambert will.
Dear Lord, Mark, get a grip.
Ha! Well if you can think of a better short term solution that can keep us up until the end of the season and won't cost a fortune, fire away.
So, you're suggesting that there is no better short term, realistic option to keep us up than a manager currently warming the hot seat at Crawley, after a few years managing in nothing leagues, or sat at home listening to his Springsteen albums?
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Right now I'd take John Gregory until the end of the season. Somebody that knows the club, would be willing to work with what his got and could give the youngsters a boost of confidence. He'd also have us passing the ball and moving. It would give us time to find a long term replacement, preferably from the continent.
Keeping Lambert now is only delaying the obvious.
Have you been at the Sagres again? John Gregory?
Ha! I'm assuming it will take the board 3 months to find their man so we'll need a stop gap. Gregory would keep us up. I'm not sure Lambert will.
Dear Lord, Mark, get a grip.
Ha! Well if you can think of a better short term solution that can keep us up until the end of the season and won't cost a fortune, fire away.
So, you're suggesting that there is no better short term, realistic option to keep us up than a manager currently warming the hot seat at Crawley, after a few years managing in nothing leagues, or sat at home listening to his Springsteen albums?
he does speak coherent English though, so that's a plus!
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he does speak coherent English though, so that's a plus!
Hilarious. Do you write your own material?
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It's the lack of experience that's the biggest problem.
Barry was ready to come back until lambert gave it the heave ho.
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Its not about him though dave, hes got to do the best for AVFC, and not to just enhance his reputation of finding and developing young players,we desperately need better quality and more experience, Westwood/Lowton/Baker/Clark/Bacuna/Sylla/Albrighton/Weimann/Tonev etc, would all be much better being brought in gradually, and with more experienced players around them.
I have'nt got a problem with any of his signings, but he needs backing now.
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Do you think PL is frightened of making a "big" signing?
Sissokho on a free would have been an inspired signing, Ince would be a good long term buy, but expensive now, and Belhanda wanted too much money.But i have to say we would'nt be where we are now, and i wonder if he likes having fledglings to control, is Villa too big a club for him,
We will see in the next 3/4 weeks, if we don't get two wins in the next two home games, then he needs to show some mettle with RL and insist on being, finally , backed.If not then he's not the manager i thought/hoped he'd be.
I don't think he's afraid but he does seem to want to have a point to prove. As Paul e (and maybe someone else, or maybe Paul said it twice) said, his £4 million + signings are fine, it's the cheap ones that let him down. He can pick up good stuff at Aldi, just keep him out of the 99p shop.
Maybe the problem is that when you buy players from the lower leagues for 1m or so, you ultimately get players who have only played in the lower leagues, and are worth 1m because, well, they're not very good yet.
I keep saying it, but it seems obvious to me - if the buying loads of cheap young players thing was that easy, everyone would be doing it. In fact, when has it ever worked in this league?
The thing is though, 5-6 more £1m signings would be completely pointless now because we don't need quantity we need quality, this is the first window where that has genuinely been the case since Lambert arrived. If he sees that himself and changes it so every window sees a couple of high end signings and maybe 1 or 2 gambles then we will improve. More importantly he really needs to invest in as many good luck charms as he can find and hope that Vlaar and Benteke come back strong and provide us with quality we know they can bring.
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So, you're suggesting that there is no better short term, realistic option to keep us up than a manager currently warming the hot seat at Crawley, after a few years managing in nothing leagues, or sat at home listening to his Springsteen albums?
I'm sure there are plenty out there that could do a far better job than the current manager, the doubt remains as to whether the board can identify a caretaker manager who would be happy with a 6 month contract. Gregory would, that's for certain. Others, I guess you'd have to ask them. I really hope the board tonight are looking at the details of their contingency plan.
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he does speak coherent English though, so that's a plus!
Hilarious. Do you write your own material?
It's called taking the piss, get over it.
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It's the lack of experience that's the biggest problem.
Barry was ready to come back until lambert gave it the heave ho.
Everyone seems to know that but nobody's said it officially.
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3 defeats in a row, 2 of them against teams below us. Today was the first of the 4 "winnable games" over Christmas.
What was his excuse for today? What was the fans' reaction at Stoke? He's had the longest honeymoon period of any Villa manager I can remember. He doesn't deserve the fantastic support he's enjoyed from us
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We need stability, I don't think sacking managers every time we hit a bad patch is going to help. I agree that he needs cash in January though otherwise it could get pretty scary.
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The winnable matches:
Stoke (lost 2-1)
Fulham (lost 2-0)
Sunderland (drew 0-0)
Albion (drew 2-2)
Cardiff (won 2-0)
West Ham (drew 0-0)
Hull (drew 0-0)
So, 7 points out of 21. 5 goals in 7 matches.
Against that, we somehow managed to squeeze out a win at Southampton whilst touching the ball about five times all night, but really, I start to get a bit worried when I see winnable games so frequently not getting won.
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The winnable matches:
Stoke (lost 2-1)
Fulham (lost 2-0)
Sunderland (drew 0-0)
Albion (drew 2-2)
Cardiff (won 2-0)
West Ham (drew 0-0)
Hull (drew 0-0)
So, 7 points out of 21. 5 goals in 7 matches.
Against that, we somehow managed to squeeze out a win at Southampton whilst touching the ball about five times all night, but really, I start to get a bit worried when I see winnable games so frequently not getting won.
From that lot, you would have thought 3 wins was needed as a minimum.
Things could get tight, more so than last season without funds and good signings in Jan.
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We need stability, I don't think sacking managers every time we hit a bad patch is going to help. I agree that he needs cash in January though otherwise it could get pretty scary.
I don't see Lambert ever having a really good patch though. I don't see him being able to outsmart another manager or send out a side that looks like they know what they're doing. I'm all for giving time, but I don't think Lambert is the man. He's not going to take to having an experienced assistant (as tactician), or D.O.F for example. He's too much like O Neill, he wants full control.
Unless he can do something significant in January, and get proven quality, and also get someone with a brain on his coaching staff to help out our midfield and attack, then he's only taking us in one direction. The Championship. It would be a matter of time. This season there's enough dross to keep us up, but next season, minus Benteke, who knows?
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I'm sure we'll go on to win some matches we're not expected to, so I am not damning us yet, I am a bit worried, though, at our reluctance to win games at the moment, especially when you'd expect us to win.
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I'm sure we'll go on to win some matches we're not expected to, so I am not damning us yet, I am a bit worried, though, at our reluctance to win games at the moment, especially when you'd expect us to win.
My view on Lambert is that we could easily go on a 5-10 game losing streak.
However we'll struggle to ever win 3 on the spin.
Those aren't good odds, and the way we're playing at the moment, I could honestly see us seeing out the rest of this year without another point.
We'll be fighting for our lives again this season I think. Barring some genuine quality signings in January.
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(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537904_10151634700642658_1828655828_n.jpg)
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(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537904_10151634700642658_1828655828_n.jpg)
If you put that on a certain other thread, you'll win the thread with that one.
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I said I would see out the next four winnable games before deciding whether I should support the Lambert out contingent.
I'll stick with that although after today's performance, I need to revise my opinion of what is a winnable game. Not sure that even Palace come under that category now.
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I said I would see out the next four winnable games before deciding whether I should support the Lambert out contingent.
I'll stick with that although after today's performance, I need to revise my opinion of what is a winnable game. Not sure that even Palace come under that category now.
I think we saw today how much we struggle against physical sides with a bit of nous. Pulis will have them well drilled to wind us up and try an intimidate us. We might be lucky and have Vlaar back, but even then, that doesn't help us scoring goals.
Swansea are in a reasonable run of form too, and I suspect they'll give us a footballing lesson.
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I watched the Fulham and Man Utd games and for me the worrying thing is the manner of the defeats, and from what I have read today's game was just as bad.
I wanted PL as manager but I am really struggling to see where the progress is…there seems to be a lack of passion or belief in the team which is something that the manager should be able to provide.
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The winnable matches:
Stoke (lost 2-1)
Fulham (lost 2-0)
Sunderland (drew 0-0)
Albion (drew 2-2)
Cardiff (won 2-0)
West Ham (drew 0-0)
Hull (drew 0-0)
So, 7 points out of 21. 5 goals in 7 matches.
Against that, we somehow managed to squeeze out a win at Southampton whilst touching the ball about five times all night, but really, I start to get a bit worried when I see winnable games so frequently not getting won.
Really they turned out to be drawable games.
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I watched the Fulham and Man Utd games and for me the worrying thing is the manner of the defeats, and from what I have read today's game was just as bad.
I wanted PL as manager but I am really struggling to see where the progress is…there seems to be a lack of passion or belief in the team which is something that the manager should be able to provide.
It concerns me the lack of answers Lambert has to questions asked of him and his side. Things happen in matches and if he actually takes decisive action, most times it's the wrong decision. Hughes changed the game with Adam. Lambert bought on Bowery. What tactical question is ever asked where Bowery would be the answer? I'm at a total loss on that one.
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I said I would see out the next four winnable games before deciding whether I should support the Lambert out contingent.
I'll stick with that although after today's performance, I need to revise my opinion of what is a winnable game. Not sure that even Palace come under that category now.
Can someone explain what 'winnable games' means.
For about 3 years people keep saying 'the next few winnable games' but I don't know what that means.
I don't recall us going on a run of 3 or 4 wins on the bounce for many years.
Why is now any different ?
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What worries me most is when Lambert came on after the game today and says he thought we were excellent in the first half and did not deserve to lose and his normal" the lads never gave up "I really think he believes it
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I think when he was interviewed yesterday we saw a much bigger insight to his feelings on the Stoke and United games when he said we were nowhere near good enough. He comes out with the same lines to the press, but he is not a stupid man and clearly has a lot more football knowledge through playing and management than most of us, and can see what we see. I think he tries to protect a young squad as much as he can.
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I don't think we are going to sign any "quality" or "experienced" players this January simply because any agent of such a player will look at players such as Bent, Ireland etc and say that their player is better and therefore deserves a higher salary than them.
It may well mean a season or two more of "transition" football but hopefully it will also mean that our club is not seen as a soft touch
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Still think he can do a good job for us...although he seems to have lost his way somewhere this season. Needs to find it pretty quickly if we are not to get drawn into a relegation battle....starting next week. All of a sudden it looks a massive game for not only Villa but also for the manager...
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Still needs more time but he really needs to get us playing better football soon otherwise he'll lose more of the goodwill he still has amongst a lot of the fans.
If we can play exciting football in a horrible relegation battle, why is it so difficult to do it in the relative safety of mid table?
People are knee-jerking. Not give him another penny?! How many managers find world class strikers for 7m? I know he's been poor for what seems like years but just remember how good he was last year.
I gave him stick for signing Kozak but again he seems a solid striker who'll chip in with goals, think it's 4 goals from 12 prem games (not all of them starts) so a decent enough 1 in 3 striker there.
He was unlucky we lost Okore in September as I'm sure people would be raving about him now. Oh yeah that Vlaar bloke who's been excellent this season particularly as our defence has now gone to pieces, what's that an international centre half for 3m?
I'm sure he wants a decent number 10 as much as anyone else but these cost a bit more than 3m. If not it's more of a long term project like Tonev/Helenius and we have too much of those in our squad really.
As for the alternatives people are saying...with respect Malkay Mackay is a decent young manager but all he's done is promoted a club to the premier league and look like keep them there. That sounds very much like Paul Lambert 18 months ago at Norwich. I thought Cardiff were incredibly negative at VP aswell considering how poor we are on home turf.
For me he needs this season and probably half of next before I make a proper judgement on how much more he can take us forward long term. I think he needs a bit of help from the board now personally. We have shed so many high earners from the squad over the past two seasons and I think a couple more will go in the summer. The board need to allow him to sign a player or two on a decent wage as the first 11 needs to be improved significantly.
This will have to be done eventually, I can't believe Faulkner and Lerner are that naïve to think he can get us back challenging the top 6 on 1/2m, 30k a week budget players. Surely the situation we want to avoid is signing too many average british players coming up on 30 on high wages/Habib Beye.
Lambert has shown he has no problems signing from abroad so I don't see it as a problem.
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I think when he was interviewed yesterday we saw a much bigger insight to his feelings on the Stoke and United games when he said we were nowhere near good enough. He comes out with the same lines to the press, but he is not a stupid man and clearly has a lot more football knowledge through playing and management than most of us, and can see what we see. I think he tries to protect a young squad as much as he can.
He aint daft that's for sure. I don't believe his press conferences, why beat a team when they are down especially a team as young as ours.
If he has a bit of cash to throw around and the wage cap is lifted I'd be quite excited in who he would go for.
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There's a vast difference between what managers (in any walk of life) say in public and what they say in private.
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My question about Lambert, as a high quality midfielder by trade how on earth has he failed in THREE transfer windows to find any midfielders with any quality!
I've been pissed off with him since Barry came back and walked all over us, as things stand I have no affinity with him & could not care less if he wasn't our manager come Monday morning, sad but true!
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Out of his depth unfortunately.
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[/quote]
Can someone explain what 'winnable games' means.
For about 3 years people keep saying 'the next few winnable games' but I don't know what that means.
I don't recall us going on a run of 3 or 4 wins on the bounce for many years.
Why is now any different ?
[/quote]
The last really good winning streak I recall was this time in the 2008-9 season when we were in cracking form.
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Rather than constantly resetting the poll, I have edited it so as anyone can change their vote. Just click the 'remove vote' option and you can then vote again.
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I think when he was interviewed yesterday we saw a much bigger insight to his feelings on the Stoke and United games when he said we were nowhere near good enough. He comes out with the same lines to the press, but he is not a stupid man and clearly has a lot more football knowledge through playing and management than most of us, and can see what we see. I think he tries to protect a young squad as much as he can.
Completely agree. He has to say what he says even if it sounds like a broken record. I've said before that I cannot believe that he is settling for this. Someone with his hunger and background in the game isn't going to want to fail and while right now, at this minute it might feel like shit, I don't believe we will always be like this. It is going to improve even if it kills some of us on the way.
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I dont want Lambert to go. I want him to get better.
He should have reacted to the Adam substitution today. He did not.
Better yet, it would be nice if he himself took the initiative more often and made the sort of substitution that Hughes did at H/T and attempted to change things when the game is at a stalemate. It is almost always the opposing that makes the first move when the match is level.
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My question about Lambert, as a high quality midfielder by trade how on earth has he failed in THREE transfer windows to find any midfielders with any quality!
I've been pissed off with him since Barry came back and walked all over us, as things stand I have no affinity with him & could not care less if he wasn't our manager come Monday morning, sad but true!
It probably is our weakest are right now and has been all season. I thought at the end of last season Westwood and Sylla were looking pretty good together and I was more concerned about our defence which was where he really tried to fix. From the start of the season it looked like he had too. It's only since the loss of Ron that we now look really vulnerable.
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Shake him all about. See what position we're in come the summer. If we've got something to build on, good. If it's same old, same old, with Benteke also departing to pastures new, then it doesn't look good for next season.
Honestly though we need a tactician at the club. Be that a good right hand man, or a good D.O.F to help Lambert out, he does need that help. My hope is that he sorted out the defensive side this season when he recruited Marshall. We're struggling a little at the moment because of poor fullbacks and missing our best two CH's through injury (one long term). That's no surprise, but we still haven't capitulated as badly as last season, which was probably the most horrific period I've seen at this club.
Again though, Lambert's got to work seriously hard on our basics. We make far too many unforced errors, really basic ones, and we lack any composure whatsoever. Are players look frightened and frantic when they have the ball, like they're playing with a live hand grenade. It shouldn't be difficult to match a team like Stoke for passing, but they looked better on the ball than we did, and we hoofed it twice as much as they did. What I will say is that for periods against Utd and Stoke our passing wasn't as horrendous as the previous 3 games before that. Although the second half against Stoke was bloody awful.
Jan is key. We don't want players who might be good in 2 years if we're lucky. We need first 11 players to step in. I appreciate some people still feel like we're comfortable, but we're playing a dangerous game at the moment. We could easily get sucked into a scrap. We've won 5 games in 17, which isn't far off relegation form. The worst thing I can think of after 3 defeats on the bounce for us, is two home games in a row to follow up.
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One of our biggest issues by far is that our number one striker hasn't scored for months, if Benteke had been in any sort of form this conversation wouldn't be happening.
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I think people are going to be sorely disappointed when we don't make any significant signings in January. It needs to happen, but I've seen nothing that suggests it will. Why would we bring experienced defenders in, and pay them the wages they'll demand, when both Vlaar and Okore will be back in the nick of time to save us?
Does anyone really think we'll be paying the wages of an accomplished and experienced midfielder who can actually pass a football, when everything we've seen up till now suggests we'll stay cheap and hopeful?
And when it comes to strikers, we have lots of them already, I've seen them all waiting to come off the bench when we're chasing a game.
Lerner will be thinking, our squad has been bolstered in the summer. We're much stronger now because we've got the numbers. But no matter how many weak planks you lay over a hole in the ground, they're still going to snap when the pressure's on. We desperately need quality, experience and leadership, but that costs money in wages, and that's not part of the current plan.
No, we'll be riding this storm in exactly the same manner as last season, so brace yourselves for that.
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Spot on Drum. However, the prospect of giving Lambert another season and a half before deciding whether he has any kind of working plan fills me with dread. The prospect of another year and a half of the shit which we serve up and by and large have served up more often than not over the last four years including the time Lambert has been in charge is more than flesh and blood can stand.
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The worrying thing is we relied on CB's goals last season to keep us up. But he's stopped scoring and the defence at the moment looks as bad as last year. I predict another relegation scrap.
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I'm becoming disillusioned with the game as a whole and the only European league game I'd sit down to watch is Real v Barcelona - its rare i watch the sky games these days .
The game has changed so much than that I grew up following in the 70's and money and greed are a problem.
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Spot on Drum. However, the prospect of giving Lambert another season and a half before deciding whether he has any kind of working plan fills me with dread. The prospect of another year and a half of the shit which we serve up and by and large have served up more often than not over the last four years including the time Lambert has been in charge is more than flesh and blood can stand.
So what do we do? Go back to the shit that McLeish served up? Or that Houllier served up? If the last few years have taught as anything it is that constant change doesn't work. At some point you have to have a the courage to stick with a man and allow him to see a plan through, not bail out half way through.
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So what do we do? Go back to the shit that McLeish served up? Or that Houllier served up? If the last few years have taught as anything it is that constant change doesn't work. At some point you have to have a the courage to stick with a man and allow him to see a plan through, not bail out half way through.
Why then did we not stick with McLeish? The counter to your argument is that if you believe you have appointed the wrong man then persisting with him is the worst thing you could do.
I'm sure that Lerner doesn't think they've appointed the wrong man in Lambert and I'm equally sure he won't sack him but change isn't always a bad thing. The reason why we've had so much change since O'Neill quit is that there have been so many bad decisions that have needed rectifying quickly.
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Spot on Drum. However, the prospect of giving Lambert another season and a half before deciding whether he has any kind of working plan fills me with dread. The prospect of another year and a half of the shit which we serve up and by and large have served up more often than not over the last four years including the time Lambert has been in charge is more than flesh and blood can stand.
So what do we do? Go back to the shit that McLeish served up? Or that Houllier served up? If the last few years have taught as anything it is that constant change doesn't work. At some point you have to have a the courage to stick with a man and allow him to see a plan through, not bail out half way through.
Whatever we do it'll continue to be shit until Lerner decides to invest again.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
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I'm becoming disillusioned with the game as a whole and the only European league game I'd sit down to watch is Real v Barcelona - its rare i watch the sky games these days .
The game has changed so much than that I grew up following in the 70's and money and greed are a problem.
I was thinking the very same the other day - along the lines that "more is less" - in this 24/7 life we now all lead you can possibly watch a live game somewhere from around the world each and every day.
In the simpler world of the 1970`s live games on TV were a treat - in the main it was some European Cup games or the FA Cup Final.
I got to thinking about the Suarez deal and tried to equate his wage against mine - to put into perspective - him buying a Range Rover Overfinch would be about £80k - or 40% of his weekly salary - that would be like me buying a luxury car for £246!!!!! - It`s fecking mad and one of the reasons I am now quickly going off the game as a whole - I no longer watch live games on TV and have even sold my season ticket seats on Viagogo for the last two, and next 3 games.
Watching the Villa has become a chore - the present aura around the club is one of utter resignation that we can no longer compete against the likes of Newcastle and Everton, let alone the top six sides - indeed we are struggling to even match some of the sides like Swansea for heavens sake. Lamberts style of play (not that there is one !) matches his "personality"- dour and unfathomable.
I am so disappointed that all of the early Lerner optimism has now faded and all we can now hope for is survival in the top flight. The sad thing is that I have been watching the Villa for 50 years and there have been worse times and worse teams howver there was always hope - that now seems to have faded - could be my age but the fact that to compete in the Premier League you require a Multi Billionaire to fund it just shows how money and greed has taken over.
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Spot on Drum. However, the prospect of giving Lambert another season and a half before deciding whether he has any kind of working plan fills me with dread. The prospect of another year and a half of the shit which we serve up and by and large have served up more often than not over the last four years including the time Lambert has been in charge is more than flesh and blood can stand.
So what do we do? Go back to the shit that McLeish served up? Or that Houllier served up? If the last few years have taught as anything it is that constant change doesn't work. At some point you have to have a the courage to stick with a man and allow him to see a plan through, not bail out half way through.
I'd stick with Mourinho...
But honestly, come the end of the season if we've finished around the 40 point mark again, and played bog standard football throughout, then I think no matter how much I want stability, it wouldn't be feasible.
As for stability, not being funny but it's an endangered species in top level football. If we change managers every year, so be it. It's a results business. Though I suspect Lambert will get a lot more leighway than McLeish did because Randy's not gonna want to pay off another manager on his way out. My worry is, that if we are being dragged down and decisive action is needed, Randolph won't pull the trigger. I don't think it'll come to that thankfully because there's 3 teams adrift lacking the quality to catch up, even to dross like us and the shite around us.
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Depressing isn't it. Brian and Chris are both right and so here we are, stuck in some sort of nightmare Catch 22. Shit manager, shit team, who would come in instead, what more chance would they have with Lerner's current stance and on and on and on we go in the knowledge that changing managers every season gets you nowhere. Somewhere between 15th and 10th in perpetuity...
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I wanted lambert to get the job and was pleased he did - I expected to see much better football and entertainment having seen his Norwich team play and I must admit I have been extremely disappointed at the quality of football this season on the whole - towards the end of last season we had a decent style of play , were scoring goals and picking up results - with the £20m plus spent in the summer I was looking forward to this season , but the last few games have been simply dreadful to watch .
I do not think Lerner will change manager no matter what happens on the coming games and I'm far from sure that lambert will sign quality experienced players in January either .
There are several poor sides in this league and that may well be our saving grace this season but I fear it's going to be a long hard winter again.
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Spot on Drum. However, the prospect of giving Lambert another season and a half before deciding whether he has any kind of working plan fills me with dread. The prospect of another year and a half of the shit which we serve up and by and large have served up more often than not over the last four years including the time Lambert has been in charge is more than flesh and blood can stand.
So what do we do? Go back to the shit that McLeish served up? Or that Houllier served up? If the last few years have taught as anything it is that constant change doesn't work. At some point you have to have a the courage to stick with a man and allow him to see a plan through, not bail out half way through.
Whatever we do it'll continue to be shit until Lerner decides to invest again.
True. We're not expecting to be Man City by any means, but we should be competing financially with clubs like Southampton, even Everton too. Everton work on a budget, with the flexibility to spend good money when they have to. We've taken budget to the extreme. I don't see the point spending 15 or so million on 7 players. I'd rather spend 20 million on 3-4 decent ones.
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Other than Gabby, Benteke, when he can be bothered, I look at the current squad and wonder how many of these players would get in to any of the sides that Little, Atkinson, Taylor, Gregory or O'Neill had. In truth, this current Villa side is very, very poor. One or two have potential, granted, but we are where we are because the players we have, in the main, are lower Premier League or even upper Championship players. We are desperate for some experience. It's not as if Lambert has not had money to spend either. Whilst I applaud Lambert for sticking to his guns and trying to go with youth, I really DO think that it will cost us at some point and we may end up in a relegation scrap that we don't win. I am not saying that we sack him, I just want him to change his tact and go for some experience.
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I wanted lambert to get the job and was pleased he did - I expected to see much better football and entertainment having seen his Norwich team play and I must admit I have been extremely disappointed at the quality of football this season on the whole - towards the end of last season we had a decent style of play , were scoring goals and picking up results - with the £20m plus spent in the summer I was looking forward to this season , but the last few games have been simply dreadful to watch .
I do not think Lerner will change manager no matter what happens on the coming games and I'm far from sure that lambert will sign quality experienced players in January either .
There are several poor sides in this league and that may well be our saving grace this season but I fear it's going to be a long hard winter again.
We can't go through every season hoping there's 3 piss poor sides either. If you flirt with relegation long enough it'll probably get you eventually. Like Wigan. Take Benteke out the equation and Wigan went down with a better squad of players than we have right now, and that's not to say they were very good either.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
I can't see him going if we lost the next 5 to be honest , I would dispense with his services if we did lose the next 2 home games but I really can't see randy lerner sacking him
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Other than Gabby, Benteke, when he can be bothered, I look at the current squad and wonder how many of these players would get in to any of the sides that Little, Atkinson, Taylor, Gregory or O'Neill had. In truth, this current Villa side is very, very poor. One or two have potential, granted, but we are where we are because the players we have, in the main, are lower Premier League or even upper Championship players. We are desperate for some experience. It's not as if Lambert has not had money to spend either. Whilst I applaud Lambert for sticking to his guns and trying to go with youth, I really DO think that it will cost us at some point and we may end up in a relegation scrap that we don't win. I am not saying that we sack him, I just want him to change his tact and go for some experience.
Yep it's too extreme. Just like we couldn't exist under the blueprint O Neill laid out, which while it had us top 6, we were ruining our finances, you cannot compete in this league by buying so many cheap lower league domestic and foreign youngsters. It's too much of a gamble, short of having God as your chief scout, it's not going to have you pushing the top half.
If you're talking odds too, we've had our Benteke master stroke. To do that again is highly unlikely. If he comes good again this season, he won't be here next.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
I can't see him going if we lost the next 5 to be honest , I would dispense with his services if we did lose the next 2 home games but I really can't see randy lerner sacking him
No he'll be given the season. At this stage as bad as it's been I'd rather we saw it through to the end this season. Trying to appoint someone decent mid season is a huge ask. Not only because we need pay the better managers the sort of money Randy probably wouldn't, but also because the better managers will look at our squad and not want to come in without the benefit of a summer to work on the side.
I still think we could be terrible for the rest of the season and still finish 10th. I don't see any of the bottom 3 being able to catch up either. We'll finish somewhere between 10th-16th. But next season? If we're missing Benteke and don't get a reasonable start we could find ourselves in trouble, and it's hard to dig yourself out.
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See now we've got to this point of the season where we are struggling to get anything out of games against the crap sides I hope people can see why there were some complaints about the side when we were getting a few results.
These kind of performances will not get results over a sustained period. You wiil not do well with 40% of the ball and you will not do well with 70% pass accuracy. We are being found out now.
I hope to god that Lambert swallows his pride and Lerner loosens his wallet one last time and we get the at least 1 of the 2 central midfielders we've needed since before last January and the dominant centre back.
Between the Givens and Warnocks and the Tonevs and El Ahamadi's there has to be a centre ground we find. We can't sustain either, 1 leads to financial ruin and the other footballing ruin.
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As if we have any influence anyway, while Lerner believes he can keep us up he will stay no matter how dire the football.
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I personally think he's found a potential gem in Kozak and by and large the players he's brought in are reasonable enough although Tonev looks like he's struggling to adapt. Attempting to prise Lescott away from Man City would be my priority in January.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
That absolutely won't happen.
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I personally think he's found a potential gem in Kozak and by and large the players he's brought in are reasonable enough although Tonev looks like he's struggling to adapt. Attempting to prise Lescott away from Man City would be my priority in January.
Maybe we can kidnap Messi and superglue a one of those comedy nose and tache glasses to his face, and hope no one recognises him. Then we'll force him to play for us.
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As if we have any influence anyway, while Lerner believes he can keep us up he will stay no matter how dire the football.
I think you're right ROBBO. Whilst we retain our premier league status, even if it is by the hair of our teeth, Lerner won't see what the problem is. Wow!! We are soooo far away from the euphoria that we had when he told he wouldn't stop until Villa were competing to be the champions of europe again, the five year plan etc etc etc.
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As if we have any influence anyway, while Lerner believes he can keep us up he will stay no matter how dire the football.
He probably has little idea of how dire the football is. I doubt he even watches the games.
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Spot on Drum. However, the prospect of giving Lambert another season and a half before deciding whether he has any kind of working plan fills me with dread. The prospect of another year and a half of the shit which we serve up and by and large have served up more often than not over the last four years including the time Lambert has been in charge is more than flesh and blood can stand.
So what do we do? Go back to the shit that McLeish served up? Or that Houllier served up? If the last few years have taught as anything it is that constant change doesn't work. At some point you have to have a the courage to stick with a man and allow him to see a plan through, not bail out half way through.
Whatever we do it'll continue to be shit until Lerner decides to invest again.
I tend to be of his viewpoint aswell.
There's only so far you can go with 1-2m punts, Lambert has got us to mid table but the reality is even getting back in the top 8 will be beyond him unless we start signing better players.
It's not like I want the days back of MON spending 40m each summer on a new defence and making 7-8 signings a summer.
We need 3 new signings, I liken it a bit to Southampton in the summer signing Lovren for 7m, Wanayama for 12m and Osvaldo for 15m.
One new central defence, a new powerhouse central midfielder and a striker who took a while to settle but is now firing and Saints have improved significantly.
These sort of signings of higher quality would I reckon improve underachieving existing squad players and the likes of Lowton, Westwood and Weimann might actually get back to last season's standard.
What killed us last time was signing too many players in or around close to 30 on high wages e.g Heskey and Beye and of course limited the search to british players.
Lambert has shown he isn't afraid to take a punt from abroad and generally these can come on lower wages to their british counterparts and you can sell them on if they don't work out. There were a few clubs in for Tonev remember.
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Vital we get points on the board this week .
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Spot on Drum. However, the prospect of giving Lambert another season and a half before deciding whether he has any kind of working plan fills me with dread. The prospect of another year and a half of the shit which we serve up and by and large have served up more often than not over the last four years including the time Lambert has been in charge is more than flesh and blood can stand.
So what do we do? Go back to the shit that McLeish served up? Or that Houllier served up? If the last few years have taught as anything it is that constant change doesn't work. At some point you have to have a the courage to stick with a man and allow him to see a plan through, not bail out half way through.
Whatever we do it'll continue to be shit until Lerner decides to invest again.
True. We're not expecting to be Man City by any means, but we should be competing financially with clubs like Southampton, even Everton too. Everton work on a budget, with the flexibility to spend good money when they have to. We've taken budget to the extreme. I don't see the point spending 15 or so million on 7 players. I'd rather spend 20 million on 3-4 decent ones.
Spot on. In terms of number wise in the squad we're fine, two left backs (is Bennett actually still alive?), a million defensive midfielders and 6 strikers although 3 of them are of questionable quality.
Again to repeat my long winded post above, Southampton spent 35m this summer, they could've gone down the route of spending 5m on 7 players but they signed 3 players who have improved their first 11.
That's the stage we are now at but doesn't look promising if the budget isn't improved.
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That article shows why I'm willing to give him more time, both he and Lerner seem to understand that we need to take our time over things and build carefully.
I've said this a few times but I'm going to put it a little clearer. When he arrived we had a small squad built around 2 cores, the youngsters who had come through the ranks at the club and the older players on massive wages who had been going through the motions for a couple of seasons. We needed to pick one of those and restructure the squad to fit that. Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
Last summer, on the back of the kids keeping us up with little assistance from the older players he decided to move on most of the remaining older player as well as a few of the kids who were struggling. All that meant we had to have a large number of players in and out (he's signed 15 players in 3 windows) so it's fairly reasonable that not all of those signings could be in the Benteke/Kozak range.
I believe there is no requirement for a big churn of the squad for the next few windows but rather we need to replace some squad players with first team players. That in itself means that the signings going forward should be in the 5m+ region, to repeat my comments on those signings again, everytime Lambert has spent decent money we've got a good player.
So for me we need to see what happens in the next 2 windows. If by next September we've seen another 5-6 1-2m gambles then I'll want him out, if he does the right thing and refocuses on quality now that he has a big squad of players he trusts, then we will start to see the value of the approach.
To add specifics, I'd be looking to replace KEA and Bowery (I don't think either will ever be effective in the premier league) in Jan and I'd try to loan in a central defender. If said central defender looks well I'd look at making it permanent in the summer to replace Baker (who it's firmly in my not sure list right now). Everyone else who's in my 'not sure' list deserves a bit more time but Tonev and Sylla are the others who i haven't formed an opinion on yet.
Aside from that we need to start doing more work on our movement off the ball, it's easy to slag our players off for no beign able to pass but I don't think that's true at all, I think the issue is that the options just aren't there so we pass into space hoping to create a run rather than passing into the path of a run. there were 9-10 times yesterday where this happened, the ball was played into the space that we should've been moving into but the player was on his heels rather than anticipating the pass. I think to a large extent it's a confidence issue, too many of our players are happy to hide behind a defender so they don't get the ball.
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
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Put it this way, we seem to be spending £20m per season now. I cannot for the life of me see why he would go and buy another 7 or so players next summer window, we have decent numbers right now, so the only logical purchases would be first teamers in the weakest positions. Add to it the Benteke bonanza we should receive £20m+ and that's a considerable war chest making it make or break for Lambert next year, assuming we stay up.
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
£43m over 3 windows isn't cheap. The wages might be an argument but really most of of us have no idea on the wage budget or the wages given to most of the new signings. I'd suggest we've given out something around 120-150k a week across the 7 signings in the summer. If that's right then we could look at 3 £7m signings on 40-60k a week, which is exactly the right market from now.
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
£43m over 3 windows isn't cheap. The wages might be an argument but really most of of us have no idea on the wage budget or the wages given to most of the new signings. I'd suggest we've given out something around 120-150k a week across the 7 signings in the summer. If that's right then we could look at 3 £7m signings on 40-60k a week, which is exactly the right market from now.
Yes we need to be looking for quality not quantity from now on .
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
£43m over 3 windows isn't cheap. The wages might be an argument but really most of of us have no idea on the wage budget or the wages given to most of the new signings. I'd suggest we've given out something around 120-150k a week across the 7 signings in the summer. If that's right then we could look at 3 £7m signings on 40-60k a week, which is exactly the right market from now.
Yes we need to be looking for quality not quantity from now on .
and we therefore should give Lambert the time to do so.
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The post I made earlier that another year and a half of Lambert and the sort of fare which has been served us over the last four seasons seems to have been misinterpreted as me wanting Lambert to go. That is not the case and I have made at least four or five posts since the Stoke game saying very clearly that sacking Lambert would be pointless basically because the mind set at the top of the club is wrong and negative.
When I say that a year and a half more of what is presently Aston Villa would be more than flesh and blood could stand it does not mean that Lambert will be going it means I will be going. Simple as.
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The post I made earlier that another year and a half of Lambert and the sort of fare which has been served us over the last four seasons seems to have been misinterpreted as me wanting Lambert to go. That is not the case and I have made at least four or five posts since the Stoke game saying very clearly that sacking Lambert would be pointless basically because the mind set at the top of the club is wrong and negative.
When I say that a year and a half more of what is presently Aston Villa would be more than flesh and blood could stand it does not mean that Lambert will be going it means I will be going. Simple as.
Sorry to hear that Brian but can understand your reasons.
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One of our biggest issues by far is that our number one striker hasn't scored for months, if Benteke had been in any sort of form this conversation wouldn't be happening.
And he spent a big chunk of his budget on Kozak to provide genuine competition to Benteke for this exact situation. So that is no excuse at all.
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One of our biggest issues by far is that our number one striker hasn't scored for months, if Benteke had been in any sort of form this conversation wouldn't be happening.
And he spent a big chunk of his budget on Kozak to provide genuine competition to Benteke for this exact situation. So that is no excuse at all.
and in terms of goalscoring he's largely been vindicated in that. However losing a player who was one of the best strikers in europe to injury and/or bad form would harm pretty much any team unless someone else steps up and plays beyond expectations for a while. The issue is Gabby and Weimann have both had niggles and struggled to have an impact as well.
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One of our biggest issues by far is that our number one striker hasn't scored for months, if Benteke had been in any sort of form this conversation wouldn't be happening.
And he spent a big chunk of his budget on Kozak to provide genuine competition to Benteke for this exact situation. So that is no excuse at all.
Very simplistic, we all know that it can take players months to adapt to English football and so to expect him to step straight in and perform is unrealistic.
Injuries have killed us really, as we've had no consistency in election and new signings have had had little time to acclimatise. I know all sides have them but we have been particularly unfortunate this season.
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I don't like the phrase 'must win' unless it's literally mathematically must win. However Crystal Palace on the back of three defeats conceding 7 and scoring 1 is pretty much 'must win'.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
I can't see him going if we lost the next 5 to be honest , I would dispense with his services if we did lose the next 2 home games but I really can't see randy lerner sacking him
I want him to stay but no points from the next two games at home could bring change.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
I can't see him going if we lost the next 5 to be honest , I would dispense with his services if we did lose the next 2 home games but I really can't see randy lerner sacking him
I want him to stay but no points from the next two games at home could bring change.
Lets face it if that happens he should be sacked.
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
Since when was it necessary to add the word 'hungry' into the equation, its as if the young players which have been brought in are somehow hungrier than other young players who play for other clubs; its total bullsh*t.
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
Since when was it necessary to add the word 'hungry' into the equation, its as if the young players which have been brought in are somehow hungrier than other young players who play for other clubs; its total bullsh*t.
See: Warnock, Stephen; Dunne, Richard; Collins, James; Ireland, Stephen vol. I-XX.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
I can't see him going if we lost the next 5 to be honest , I would dispense with his services if we did lose the next 2 home games but I really can't see randy lerner sacking him
I want him to stay but no points from the next two games at home could bring change.
Lets face it if that happens he should be sacked.
If he lost the next 2, even in the pro keeping him stable, with Sunderland away, Arsenal home and Liverpool away the next 3, it would be really bleak. It would also end the argument that despite performances we have improved points wise, as 4 points from those 2 home games would give us a cushion on last seasons tally to the tune of about 5.
As much as I like him, lose them both and I could totally understand the chairman pulling the trigger. It would be 5 straight defeats, 4 of which you would have expected us to compete for points in and United in their worst state for 20 years.
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and in terms of goalscoring he's largely been vindicated in that. However losing a player who was one of the best strikers in europe to injury and/or bad form would harm pretty much any team unless someone else steps up and plays beyond expectations for a while. The issue is Gabby and Weimann have both had niggles and struggled to have an impact as well.
I wasn't having a pop at Kozak to be clear. My point was that he was signed Kozak so we were not so reliant on Benteke and could play a similar system without him. Our atrocious football cannot simply be excused due to Benteke losing form and even if this is the reason, then it is Lambert's fault for allowing us to effectively become a one-man team.
Very simplistic, we all know that it can take players months to adapt to English football and so to expect him to step straight in and perform is unrealistic.
Injuries have killed us really, as we've had no consistency in election and new signings have had had little time to acclimatise. I know all sides have them but we have been particularly unfortunate this season.
Can injuries really be blamed for us not even being capable of stringing a couple of passes together? Didn't Lambert choose to spend his budget on a bunch of squad fillers precisely so we could cope with injuries?
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
Since when was it necessary to add the word 'hungry' into the equation, its as if the young players which have been brought in are somehow hungrier than other young players who play for other clubs; its total bullsh*t.
See: Warnock, Stephen; Dunne, Richard; Collins, James; Ireland, Stephen vol. I-XX.
All of whom - except Ireland - were good for us in the season in which they signed. Subsequent managers didn't get anything out of them.
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Lambert went for the youth option, getting rid of a bunch of the older players and then intending to use the rest whilst the youngsters got up to speed. Unfortunately those senior players let us down again and it was the kids who kept us in the league.
I think they went down that route as it's cheaper than buying proper first team players. This "young and hungry" thing is just a clever way of saying we're doing things on the cheap.
Since when was it necessary to add the word 'hungry' into the equation, its as if the young players which have been brought in are somehow hungrier than other young players who play for other clubs; its total bullsh*t.
See: Warnock, Stephen; Dunne, Richard; Collins, James; Ireland, Stephen vol. I-XX.
All of whom - except Ireland - were good for us in the season in which they signed. Subsequent managers didn't get anything out of them.
Their form notwithstanding, it was quite clear that none of them could give a shit about the club for a good two years.
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The club was held in contempt. Warnock hated us as supporters too, the Socuse ******.
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Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.
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It's not just injuries at all, coaching plays a massive part in it. We don't appear to have a clue how to move off the ball and create space and I know that's been the case for a long time but it's just ridiculous.
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It's not just injuries at all, coaching plays a massive part in it. We don't appear to have a clue how to move off the ball and create space and I know that's been the case for a long time but it's just ridiculous.
Lets be honest we have been woeful at home for months even when we had most players fit .
The injuries clearly have had an effect on our defence , but as a team we are weak in midfield and on the offensive too.
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Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.
This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.
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Lose the next two games and he wil go.
I can't see him going if we lost the next 5 to be honest , I would dispense with his services if we did lose the next 2 home games but I really can't see randy lerner sacking him
I want him to stay but no points from the next two games at home could bring change.
Lets face it if that happens he should be sacked.
If he lost the next 2, even in the pro keeping him stable, with Sunderland away, Arsenal home and Liverpool away the next 3, it would be really bleak. It would also end the argument that despite performances we have improved points wise, as 4 points from those 2 home games would give us a cushion on last seasons tally to the tune of about 5.
As much as I like him, lose them both and I could totally understand the chairman pulling the trigger. It would be 5 straight defeats, 4 of which you would have expected us to compete for points in and United in their worst state for 20 years.
It's unthinkable to lose both but If we did I expect he would offer to walk. At the moment we are only one point better off than last season and falling, supposedly with a better squad than last season.
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Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.
This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.
Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.
He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.
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Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.
This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.
Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.
He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.
That changeability is a kind of worry though. This kind of football has to be reinforced by constant practice, like any skill at its top level. Lambert's versatility is a weakness here - being so reactive often makes us look as though, when we have to be proactive and force the issue, we don't have a plan at all. It looks aimless.
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We pass the ball to feet in areas of the pitch where it doesn't really matter ever so well.
What we don't do is pass the ball into space, or even make runs into space for the ball to be passed into in the important areas of the pitch. We don't have (enough) players who move forward with the ball to attack, or even move with it at all in some cases.
I am not of the opinion that Lambert has had us playing good football this season at all. If it's his coaching methods, or coaching team, either he needs to change something in his approach, or i feel he will be changed fairly soon.
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You cannot excuse a player, playing professionally, whether 17 or 40, consistently fucking up 5-10 yard passes, which our players regularly do. It's not that they're bad players, but they're lacking composure. Composure can come from experience, and it can also come from confidence, which in itself can come from having a clear game plan, and being well drilled, which often, we are not. We're getting by on pure effort alone at the moment, and no small amount of fortune, which in the last 3 games appears to have run out.
Lambert isn't getting on top of these glaring, basic errors. We gift the opposition the ball and attacking momentum far too easily. In possession the off the ball movement of our players is utterly woeful. The player in possession often has no option but to take a hopeful punt long.
Likewise we're particularly weak in midfield and attack in terms of technical ability. This doesn't help us either. I don't think we have anyone in midfield or attack (bar Benteke on form, and possibly Helenius) who has a really good first touch. Some of them are shockingly poor. Likewise running with the ball is a skill. Delph is okay, as is Albrighton, but the rest aren't great. Bacuna looks like he's playing with a live grenade, and Tonevs touch and close dribbling are some of the worst I've ever seen at this level in a Villa shirt.
That comes down to the managers purchases right there. He claims he wants us to play good football, but for that you need a midfield with some technical ability. Players who can control it, dribble comfortably with it, have an eye for a pass and the ability to find pockets of space. Currently we're desperately lacking.
Sorting our midfield (which we've been saying since Lambert took over) will go along way to also improving our attack and tightening our defense. We need more balance and more quality. A couple of players in Jan would be good. A good deep lying player and a good number 10.
And a wideman.
And a couple of decent fullbacks.
And a center half (a loan from Jan-May would do).
So not too much required! ;) But sort most of that out in the next 2 windows and we'll be a lot better. If you consider Bent, Hutton, Ireland, N'Zogbia, Delfouneso and Given will likely all be gone, that's 6 players out. 4-5 good quality additions in place and we look a more solid squad. We need first 11 quality though.
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It's not just injuries at all, coaching plays a massive part in it. We don't appear to have a clue how to move off the ball and create space and I know that's been the case for a long time but it's just ridiculous.
But don't you think there were spells at the back end of last season where - for the first time since God knows when, possibly O'Leary's first season - we actually did start to pass the ball properly, and move off it, and play in triangles, and actually look like pleasing on the eye when in possession (rather than when breaking)?
That's my most disappointing thing this season. I know we're not going to be anywhere near the top eight, but I thought I'd enjoy watching us this season. I really haven't.
I read an apposite comment recently that even when we've won this season, it's almost happened by accident. It certainly felt like that against Southampton and Citeh.
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It's not just injuries at all, coaching plays a massive part in it. We don't appear to have a clue how to move off the ball and create space and I know that's been the case for a long time but it's just ridiculous.
But don't you think there were spells at the back end of last season where - for the first time since God knows when, possibly O'Leary's first season - we actually did start to pass the ball properly, and move off it, and play in triangles, and actually look like pleasing on the eye when in possession (rather than when breaking)?
That's my most disappointing thing this season. I know we're not going to be anywhere near the top eight, but I thought I'd enjoy watching us this season. I really haven't.
I read an apposite comment recently that even when we've won this season, it's almost happened by accident. It certainly felt like that against Southampton and Citeh.
I completely agree, I don't know what's happened. One of the redeeming aspects of last season was we scored some lovely goals.
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Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.
This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.
Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.
He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.
That changeability is a kind of worry though. This kind of football has to be reinforced by constant practice, like any skill at its top level. Lambert's versatility is a weakness here - being so reactive often makes us look as though, when we have to be proactive and force the issue, we don't have a plan at all. It looks aimless.
Fair point.
Lambert is who he is though. He tinkered with the formation/style all the time at Norwich and with us. I think he just expects his players to be able to handle it. That kind of philosophy is more common in Serie A I think. I remember Mancini in particular expressing puzzlement why players in this league would find it odd he would change formation all the time, he just regarded it as normal.
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Very good point. Whereas this year we've hardly put together any passing moves that finish in goals. To name a few team goals from last year:
Benteke at Liverpool, benteke at Everton (second), Weimann second v Man U, Benteke v QPR, etc
What's our best team goal this season? What goal has involved three or four passes first?
I'm just clinging to the hope that we were a lot worse at this point last season and in the end we came good.
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There's a difference between formation, strategy and just not practising passing. If you look at Swansea and now Liverpool, Rodgers' guru-like obsession with triangles - when one player gets the ball he has one option move left and one right ahead of him - works almost all the time, whether they play 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2, and whether they're breaking down a massed defence or counterattacking. Just small things like this make a huge difference, and we appear to do none of them.
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There's a difference between formation, strategy and just not practising passing. If you look at Swansea and now Liverpool, Rodgers' guru-like obsession with triangles - when one player gets the ball he has one option move left and one right ahead of him - works almost all the time, whether they play 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 3-5-2, and whether they're breaking down a massed defence or counterattacking. Just small things like this make a huge difference, and we appear to do none of them.
Yes , pass and move is drilled into players at a young age but our midfield is so static and with so little movement that I despair - for this reason I think Gardner needs to be given a go as neither Westwood , kea or sylla have delivered .
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We are in for a relegation battle for the 3rd season straight. It's not that lambert is uninspiring more that he's unlucky that worries me most. The injuries we get all seem to happen at the worst moment possible.
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Matt, that is true. Hmm one worrying thought as, I remember those goals I recall Ireland or Bannan involved...
Eastie&Montbert. I agree with that. I was shocked during the Stoke game to see Delph for example misplace passes repeatedly. Not the kind of thing he did last season.
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We are in for a relegation battle for the 3rd season straight. It's not that lambert is uninspiring more that he's unlucky that worries me most. The injuries we get all seem to happen at the worst moment possible.
I'm not entirely sure injury runs are ever this bad without doing something in the training that contributes in some way. Houllier for example put on the double sessions then had a horrendous run of injuries in the middle of the season. I know people call O Neill to fault for the fitness of his sides. It wasn't really that they lacked in fitness, he just asked what was beyond of his first choice 11-14 players. But generally he was lucky with injuries.
I think there's something in our training regime, that needs looking at. The conditioning coach and physio might be directly contributing to such bad luck on that front. Who knows? I certainly feel in regards to Benteke, we've really done the boy no favours by rushing him back too.
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We are in for a relegation battle for the 3rd season
Yes and when they sacked McLeish they swore they would never let us be in that position again because Aston Villa aspire to more.
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Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.
This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.
Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.
He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.
At West Ham last season for Lambert's first game I was distressed at how many people thought that sideways passing made us some sort of Arsenal tribute act. I honestly don't remember us troubling West Ham in that game.
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Wigan had players like Boyce playing nice football and hardly spent alot either so certainly there is a case to say the coaching isn't up to scratch.
This is much more my concern. Martinez, Rodgers, even Adkins and definitely Pochettino all get their teams to play passing football, and presumably that's down to a lot of obsessive training. I don't know what we do in training sessions, but I'm guessing it isn't the same as those teams.
Lambert can have us play like that. He did last season I fondly remember the "We are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball!" chant at West Ham.
He is a very changeable manager, I expect us to go through a phase of playing a possession style game again this season.
At West Ham last season for Lambert's first game I was distressed at how many people thought that sideways passing made us some sort of Arsenal tribute act. I honestly don't remember us troubling West Ham in that game.
Bingo.
Slow, predictable passing in non threatening areas is every bit as dull and imaginative as the big hoof to up the other end of the pitch.
For that game it was at least a novelty to see us attempt to even make basic passes though, compared to the utter dirge of the McLeish era.
You don't go from that to Barcelona after one pre season. But Martinez at Wigan was able to transform Steve Bruce's dour outfit into something approximating a football side after just one summer. Virtually the same talent pool that Bruce had to pick from.
Passing with purpose is the key: passing at pace and in an attempt to force an opening.
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It's good to be patient and pass the ball around the back and midfield for a bit, looking carefully for an opening. However, if that's all you do all game, there's probably something not quite right.
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The thing that gets me is that a few good spells last season aside our poorness on the ball is nothing new. Under MoN, Houlier and McLeish we had the same problems. A lack of movement, misplaced passes and an unwillingness to press has been apparent throughout that period under four different managers and with using god knows how many different players. That's just inexplicable. Similarly we've taken consistently shit throw-ins for a long time too. All basic stuff we have been getting wrong for a long time.
How Lambert, the man who for me has got the closest to having us play entertaining football is now getting it so wrong is just plain baffling.
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My suspicion is that he was so disturbed by the grisly sight of Villa's defending last year that he's spent almost all of his training about defence and counter. I feel that he's gone too far this way, and would rather he went with the madness more than with solidity.
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The thing that gets me is that a few good spells last season aside our poorness on the ball is nothing new. Under MoN, Houlier and McLeish we had the same problems. A lack of movement, misplaced passes and an unwillingness to press has been apparent throughout that period under four different managers and with using god knows how many different players. That's just inexplicable. Similarly we've taken consistently shit throw-ins for a long time too. All basic stuff we have been getting wrong for a long time.
How Lambert, the man who for me has got the closest to having us play entertaining football is now getting it so wrong is just plain baffling.
I don't see how you can include Houllier in that list. You could clearly see his philosophy being slowly implemented and we played far better possession-based football under him then we have under Lambert.
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It's good to be patient and pass the ball around the back and midfield for a bit, looking carefully for an opening. However, if that's all you do all game, there's probably something not quite right.
There's definitely something not quite right when the get-out-of-jail pass is back to Baker, the worst 'footballer' on the side.
We lack someone (like Petrov) who is our 'out' player; someone for whom the ball is a friend rather than a primed grenade: I think Westie was supposed to be that player, but he has looked very much caught in the headlights this season. Delph, Bacuna and Gardner are all probably more reliable with the ball than our curent midfield but none have the calm, controlled dominance required yet.
Both Livermore and Huddlestone would have added some quality to our midfield but are instead plying their trade with Hull ...
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Personally, I think if we loose to Palace I will have reached to point where I want Lambert gone.
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What about if we lose to them?
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What about if we lose to them?
Doesn't bear thinking about. I know we're bad but we can't be that bad.
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If we lose to Palace . I will be worried with the games comin up
yes I know West ham , Norwich , Palace and a few others look really shit but If we lose to Palace , I will be worried
we wont lose to Palace ;/
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Fail to win either of the next two and even i'll be inching into the something has to change camp.
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Fail to win either of the next two and even i'll be inching into the something has to change camp.
You, me and a load more
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Until our transfer policy changes do people honestly believe we can make significant progress and play exciting football just by sacking another manager? What will any new manager be able to do?
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Get us passing the ball to each other? Scoring goals? Defending? How to take a throw in? Movement off the ball?
I love you really Mr Lambert.
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Get us passing the ball to each other? Scoring goals? Defending? How to take a throw in? Movement off the ball?
I think we last did that in the late '70s, early '80s.
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What about if we lose to them?
That's a mute point ;-)
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what did he say?
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Until our transfer policy changes do people honestly believe we can make significant progress and play exciting football just by sacking another manager? What will any new manager be able to do?
Lambert has successfully reduced the wage bill and more-or-less building a squad which can survive in this league on a more than sustainable budget. As a result I think it would be extremely harsh to get rid of him now when the purse strings could potentially be loosened, after all he's done most of the hard work.
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The thing that gets me is that a few good spells last season aside our poorness on the ball is nothing new. Under MoN, Houlier and McLeish we had the same problems. A lack of movement, misplaced passes and an unwillingness to press has been apparent throughout that period under four different managers and with using god knows how many different players. That's just inexplicable. Similarly we've taken consistently shit throw-ins for a long time too. All basic stuff we have been getting wrong for a long time.
How Lambert, the man who for me has got the closest to having us play entertaining football is now getting it so wrong is just plain baffling.
I don't see how you can include Houllier in that list. You could clearly see his philosophy being slowly implemented and we played far better possession-based football under him then we have under Lambert.
We had many poor performances under Houllier although I accept that was a proper transition season. But just look back at December 2010....lost 3 nil at Liverpool (infamous Houllier love in with them), lost 1-2 at home to Spurs who played about 70 minutes with ten men, lost 4-0 at Man. City, lost 1 nil at home to Sunderland in which 90% of the ground was calling him to be sacked the next morning.
I still can't get my head round how we actually finished 9th that season considering we were in the bottom mix for so long. Those final two wins at Arsenal and at home to Liverpool were just flukes really considering what had gone on for the previous 8 months.
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That 1-0 victory against Liverpool was surreal. Most of the attention was being paid to our beloved neighbours getting relegated.
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Yeah it was the only time since 1998 we've beaten them at VP so when you win 1 game in 15 years against them yeah it's a fluke and we were lucky to get them on the beach on the last day rather than in March-April when they usually beat us.
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I think Lambert should stay. Here's why;
1. The squad we have today is IMO both better, younger, hungrier, and most importantly, isn't draining money out of the club in wages, as the one he inherited in June 2012. Does anyone really believe that in defense, Hutton, Cuellar, Dunne, Collins, and Warnock are better than Vlaar, Okore, and Lowton. Or in attack that Bent, Keane, Heskey, and Delfuenso are better than Benteke and Kozak. Midfield isn't so clear cut (Stan has been a big blow) but even there - are Ireland, Bannan, Jenas, and Makoun better than Westwood, Sylla, Bacuna, KEA, or Tonev. Some of the 'new blood' are not playing well and have yet to find their feet, but I'll take their youth, mistakes, and honesty over the shower of shit that never gave a toss about the club and were quite content to largely play out their contracts. IMO given the money available and the wage bill having to be bought under control (neither of which he is responsible for), he's done a good job in the transfer market and for the future of the club.
2. He has track record. How many managers with track record do you think will welcome the chance to manage this club if Lerner swings the axe - the big names wont take the job (money not there), so what we will end up with is just 'another Lambert' (up and coming but yet to prove it on the big stage) which carries all the same risks we had originally (more squad changes, rebuilding, another upheaval, etc with absolutely no guarantees of anything better). On another site this week, a supposed Villa fan was arguing vehemently that any of Pulis, Matteo, Clark, or Holloway would be a good choice to replace 'that fu$&W$t Lambert'!!!! I kid you not - I seriously thought he was taking the piss but evidently he wasn't. He genuinely thought we would be better off with any of that lot than Lambert. God help us! Its all well and good to state that this isn't a good reason not to sack the guy - I agree - but equally, if we do, who, seriously, would both be interested, available, and an upgrade on what we have? Its also interesting to see the condemnation of WBA, Cardiff, Fulham etc for sacking guys mid-season, yet when it comes to us, different story.
3. And finally, in my view Lerner, Faulkner, and Lambert as a trio have restored something special to this club - integrity, honesty, hard work, and a far more sustainable, viable business for the future - which don't guarantee success on the field but I'd rather that, admired by other fans up and down the country by the way, than the complete utter shambles the club was in when they arrived.
4. Results - not week on week but over time. Fact is, we are better off this season than we were in either the two preceeding seasons. Lambert was clear from the get go that this was never going to be easy, never going to be an 18 month fix, and it would take time. I agree with him - and the fact with all the problems that still exist, we are better off positionally (albeit marginally) speaks volumes.
People are complaining about the 'quality' of the football - I agree its dire and as bad as I can remember right now - but that alone ought not be the reason the chop arrives. Surely one has to take stock and look at the overall picture. Progress comes in many forms, some obvious and some not obvious. In my humble view, while I hold my head in my hands some weekends watching us falter so badly, I always wake up Monday and am able to accept that we are in a long transition, that we don't have pots of money, that we have a manager and a squad who finally, appear honest, hard working, and up for the fight (as we saw last year and as we will see again this year).
I think the man is doing a good job under tough circumstances, deserves better support, and will come through with Lerner's support (which I think he has).
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Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa. All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model. In my book that does not equate with Villa being better. What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?
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Great post gpbarr.
In a nutshell we're about where we were with Houlier and Mcleish but with a much younger team and built on more sustainable foundations. Ultimately - here comes the optimism - we're ready to grow again both through the current players being young enough to improve and the bank balance healthy enough for us to go into our overdraft again.
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Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa. All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model. In my book that does not equate with Villa being better. What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?
Wasn't there a quote from Lambert about 6 months after he joined where he said something along the lines of "it needed to be broken in order for it to be fixed properly"? I'm hoping that our current existence is partially about breaking it (e.g. resolutely getting rid of under achieving high earners and filling the squad with young/cheap/obedient players) so the club/Randy can be more ambitious again.
If this ambition does not materialise in the near future (although not necessarily the next transfer window) then I'll agree, but - to me - we're only part way through the process and hopefully the next stage will be the period where the team and club can grow again.
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I just don't get our style of play. That's my problem.
If all of our teams from youth upwards played the same way I would buy into 'the project' but we have no real way of playing.
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Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa. All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model. In my book that does not equate with Villa being better. What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?
Absolutely spot on.
Ellis got panned for lack of ambition. In short, the pride he felt at Aston Villa -one of the biggest clubs in the richest league in the world- being solvent. I guess if you set small enough goals, they are attainable.
Apart from the late 60's (and early 80's after the North Stand fiasco) there wasn't an excuse for that type of miserly approach on his watch, and there isn't now -with record TV deals and revenue for all topflight clubs.
That's not carte blanche to run the thing recklessly either. We've seen a number of clubs drop out of the topflight and struggle, having crippling debts and wage bills as they plummet down the divisions.
But when letters from the Chief Exec are circulated to season ticket holders about the 'goal' of remaining in the Deloitte top 20 (not achieved), something is amiss. Matters on the pitch should always be the main priority for any football club, if that isn't stating the fucking obvious.
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Sorry gpbarr but I do not accept that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert have forged a "new and improved" Aston Villa. All three including the manager, in my opinion, are bean counters who have traded the hopes and dreams of glory for a sustainable business model. In my book that does not equate with Villa being better. What is the point of owning a club like Aston Villa and running it like a chain of launderettes?
Brian - I agree that they have not forged a "new and improved Aston Villa" but thats not what I said they had done. I believe they have restored integrity, honesty, hard work, and a far more sustainable, viable business for the future, that ultimately (and here is the rub) will lead to a "new and improved Aston Villa". I also respect your point about business over glory, but it is simply the way of the new world. I often ask myself if I'd want to be a Man City fan right now - all glory but little integrity, full of prima donna's, no respect for the traditions of the football club, etc. Lerner has done enough in his time here to warrant genuine respect and admiration - the charity giving, the debt write off, rebuilding some historic aspects of the ground, etc.
But I hear you. And so I would say that if the fans don't like what they are seeing and don't see progress as I do, then they should be ensuring they ask for Lerner, Faulkner, and Lambert to go because as you said, they are taking this project on together, success or otherwise. Just getting rid of the manager won't solve the underlying malaise you claim to believe is taking place.
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I used to buy a turkey from my butcher for Christmas and get some local veg from the farmers market then cook it all using recipes from my favourite tv chefs. Last year I decided to save money and buy a turkey style roast from Iceland and some frozen veg. In order to save time on Christmas Day, I just chucked it in the oven and took it out a bit early. My guests pulled a face because it didn't taste very nice then spent a week puking and shitting.
This year, I've decided to do the same.
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I used to buy a turkey from my butcher for Christmas and get some local veg from the farmers market then cook it all using recipes from my favourite tv chefs. Last year I decided to save money and buy a turkey style roast from Iceland and some frozen veg. In order to save time on Christmas Day, I just chucked it in the oven and took it out a bit early. My guests pulled a face because it didn't taste very nice then spent a week puking and shitting.
This year, I've decided to do the same.
Nice analogy Mike. What you should have done is planted your own veggies in that new allotment you bought. It'll take a while but everyone says home grown tastes better. Besides the relatives which come and visit each year are only prepared to bring the cheapest plonk with them... etc etc.
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Its my opinion that our decline started the moment MON handed over his team sheet in Moscow minus eight first teamers.
At the time, there was a strong chance that we could get that Champions League spot, with Arsenal and Liverpool vulnerable, Spurs only just appointing Redknapp, and Man City yet to flex their financial muscles. It was a golden chance, but ducking out of Europe in such a limp fashion demotivated the squad, and drove a wedge between manager and fans which was never healed. Yes we were sixth again the following season and had the two Wembley trips, but for me it papered over the cracks - the football we saw that season - with a few exceptions - was not great to watch really (the home matches with West Ham and Wolves were diabolical).
After that last game of the season against Blackburn, I expected it to be announced that MON was going to leave, leaving us in a position to spend the Summer searching for a replacement who could build on what he'd done. Instead, he bailed out on us at almost the eleventh hour, so we had to rush in an appointment.
We ended up with Houllier, who was never the right fit for the job. We wanted to begin driving the wages down, but were forced the abondon this by signing Bent to try and keep us up.
We then appointed TSM, who had no chance to doing anything here - mainly because of his management style and where he was coming from. Neither Houllier or TSM were ever long-term options for us like PL could be, but even when Lambert arrived, he said it was never going to be a quick fix and most of us knew that. You can't turn around a three year decline in the space of a few months without serious money being invested - something we just don't have now.
Not one person can be blamed for all of this, as its a combination of poor decisions by the board and the last three managers. At the moment, I'm still in the Lambert in camp, but the jury is still very much out on whether he is the right man to take us forward again. We've learned over the last few seasons that simply changing the manager isn't enough - especially when the replacement has a totally different style of playing to that of the guy who has moved on.
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I think Lambert should stay. Here's why;
1. The squad we have today is IMO both better, younger, hungrier, and most importantly, isn't draining money out of the club in wages, as the one he inherited in June 2012.
I think he should stay, too, but really, if that's the first line of the first reason, you've got to wonder how much our priorities have changed.
I don't want to clap my hands and shout because we've got a team of eager, young players who don't cost much. I want a squad of good players. Ideally they'll not cost too much.
I also am not a fan of the money-sapping wages MON saddled us with, but I don't think there's a single shred of evidence that this current squad is anywhere near better than any squad MON had - and I am including the 2006-7 one he inherited and couldn't really add to very much. That had a spine of a team already, including the likes of Gabby, Barry, Angel, Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma - decent players.
You'd have to be on some sort of mind-bending narcotics to really think that the current squad is collectively anywhere near as good as that handful of players alone, let alone their squad mates.
I don't mean this to sound like having a pop at you, because I am not, but if I wanted to cheer fiscal prudence and financial performance, I'd start watching share prices every Saturday afternoon instead.
I say all this as a Lambert supporter, but I genuinely can not believe the level of delusion amongst some of our fans re our current squad. It's a squad of players who'd - with two or three exceptions at most - would be of interest to almost nobody else in the PL. Massively mediocre stuff, lots of players with a huge amount to prove.
I hope they do and will continue to give them a chance, but I genuinely couldn't give a toss if they're young and hungry, I want them to be good.
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I used to buy a turkey from my butcher for Christmas and get some local veg from the farmers market then cook it all using recipes from my favourite tv chefs. Last year I decided to save money and buy a turkey style roast from Iceland and some frozen veg. In order to save time on Christmas Day, I just chucked it in the oven and took it out a bit early. My guests pulled a face because it didn't taste very nice then spent a week puking and shitting.
This year, I've decided to do the same.
And your point is?
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I think we have an owner that will contribute some funding each year, although not a great deal. The reality, therefore, is to combine this with TV money and other commercial income and that is all we have to work with. I do believe that the club are working very hard to increase the commercial income and trying to promote the name of the club around the world e.g. I caught a little bit of a club produced weekly program me on Eurosport Asia. This all takes time unless you are winning trophies.
It will help when we have cleared the decks of non-playing high earners so that this money can be spent raising the quality of the squad. In the meantime we have to struggle on the best we can by whatever means possible. Clearly, there are a number of the young players that are struggling for form, partly due to the whole team struggling, which is partly down to loss of key players to injury. I firmly believe that the club have to bring some experienced players in in January. As we do not want to spend a great deal of money on a short term quick fix, we should use the loan system. Investing GBP 5 million in loan salaries will buy us far more now and for the future than spending on buying players.
Earlier somebody said that it all started going wrong in Moscow. I would say it all started going wrong when we signed Heskey. He did not fit in with the way we played and we changed to accommodate him. Managers used to like him because of his work rate but we could not afford to have a center forward that did not score goals due to lack of goals from midfield. We are in a similar position now in that we rely on the front three for goals. AW and GA without goals are a luxury we cannot afford, however much we like them as players. Similarly with somebody like Albrighton, it is of no use him looking busy, running down the wing and crossing if he is not looking where his players are before he crosses.
I am all for steadying the ship until we can sail on full steam ahead. What we cannot afford is to ruin the good work to date by changing direction completely. However, I would not say no to a money-no-object Arab turning up at B6.
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I think Lambert should stay. Here's why;
1. The squad we have today is IMO both better, younger, hungrier, and most importantly, isn't draining money out of the club in wages, as the one he inherited in June 2012.
I think he should stay, too, but really, if that's the first line of the first reason, you've got to wonder how much our priorities have changed.
I don't want to clap my hands and shout because we've got a team of eager, young players who don't cost much. I want a squad of good players. Ideally they'll not cost too much.
I also am not a fan of the money-sapping wages MON saddled us with, but I don't think there's a single shred of evidence that this current squad is anywhere near better than any squad MON had - and I am including the 2006-7 one he inherited and couldn't really add to very much. That had a spine of a team already, including the likes of Gabby, Barry, Angel, Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma - decent players.
You'd have to be on some sort of mind-bending narcotics to really think that the current squad is collectively anywhere near as good as that handful of players alone, let alone their squad mates.
I don't mean this to sound like having a pop at you, because I am not, but if I wanted to cheer fiscal prudence and financial performance, I'd start watching share prices every Saturday afternoon instead.
I say all this as a Lambert supporter, but I genuinely can not believe the level of delusion amongst some of our fans re our current squad. It's a squad of players who'd - with two or three exceptions at most - would be of interest to almost nobody else in the PL. Massively mediocre stuff, lots of players with a huge amount to prove.
I hope they do and will continue to give them a chance, but I genuinely couldn't give a toss if they're young and hungry, I want them to be good.
To be clear I said the current squad is IMO better than the one he inherited in June 2012. I don't disagree the team you mentioned was better but that was not the resources Lambert was afforded when he took over. That squad (as McLeish exited) was worse than the squad Lambert has put together. If you disagree, go and look at the Opta stats.
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Its my opinion that our decline started the moment MON handed over his team sheet in Moscow minus eight first teamers.
At the time, there was a strong chance that we could get that Champions League spot, with Arsenal and Liverpool vulnerable, Spurs only just appointing Redknapp, and Man City yet to flex their financial muscles. It was a golden chance, but ducking out of Europe in such a limp fashion demotivated the squad, and drove a wedge between manager and fans which was never healed. Yes we were sixth again the following season and had the two Wembley trips, but for me it papered over the cracks - the football we saw that season - with a few exceptions - was not great to watch really (the home matches with West Ham and Wolves were diabolical).
After that last game of the season against Blackburn, I expected it to be announced that MON was going to leave, leaving us in a position to spend the Summer searching for a replacement who could build on what he'd done. Instead, he bailed out on us at almost the eleventh hour, so we had to rush in an appointment.
We ended up with Houllier, who was never the right fit for the job. We wanted to begin driving the wages down, but were forced the abondon this by signing Bent to try and keep us up.
We then appointed TSM, who had no chance to doing anything here - mainly because of his management style and where he was coming from. Neither Houllier or TSM were ever long-term options for us like PL could be, but even when Lambert arrived, he said it was never going to be a quick fix and most of us knew that. You can't turn around a three year decline in the space of a few months without serious money being invested - something we just don't have now.
Not one person can be blamed for all of this, as its a combination of poor decisions by the board and the last three managers. At the moment, I'm still in the Lambert in camp, but the jury is still very much out on whether he is the right man to take us forward again. We've learned over the last few seasons that simply changing the manager isn't enough - especially when the replacement has a totally different style of playing to that of the guy who has moved on.
What a bloody good post - merry christmas to all!
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I think we have an owner that will contribute some funding each year, although not a great deal. The reality, therefore, is to combine this with TV money and other commercial income and that is all we have to work with. I do believe that the club are working very hard to increase the commercial income and trying to promote the name of the club around the world e.g. I caught a little bit of a club produced weekly program me on Eurosport Asia. This all takes time unless you are winning trophies.
It will help when we have cleared the decks of non-playing high earners so that this money can be spent raising the quality of the squad. In the meantime we have to struggle on the best we can by whatever means possible. Clearly, there are a number of the young players that are struggling for form, partly due to the whole team struggling, which is partly down to loss of key players to injury. I firmly believe that the club have to bring some experienced players in in January. As we do not want to spend a great deal of money on a short term quick fix, we should use the loan system. Investing GBP 5 million in loan salaries will buy us far more now and for the future than spending on buying players.
Earlier somebody said that it all started going wrong in Moscow. I would say it all started going wrong when we signed Heskey. He did not fit in with the way we played and we changed to accommodate him. Managers used to like him because of his work rate but we could not afford to have a center forward that did not score goals due to lack of goals from midfield. We are in a similar position now in that we rely on the front three for goals. AW and GA without goals are a luxury we cannot afford, however much we like them as players. Similarly with somebody like Albrighton, it is of no use him looking busy, running down the wing and crossing if he is not looking where his players are before he crosses.
I am all for steadying the ship until we can sail on full steam ahead. What we cannot afford is to ruin the good work to date by changing direction completely. However, I would not say no to a money-no-object Arab turning up at B6.
Well said.
I think the Moscow debacle is a bit of a sideshow; the club took a view on what to prioritise and got it wrong (and, anyway, MON screwed that campaign earlier by getting team selections wrong in the group stage).
We are now in a consolidation phase, where the manager is no longer "new" and needs to move on from exiting unwanted players to building a squad that can compete. The owner also has to move into new phase, from being tentative about his new manager to being wholeheartedly supportive.
I don't believe that PL is acting independently of RL and PF: there will be a clear plan of approach, based on a slow-build, low-risk strategy. The trigger for a more expansive approach is the removal of the high-earning relics from previous eras.
The biggest issue is straightforward: has PL got the right footballing philosophy? - the general consensus here seems to be either "not sure" or "no" ... And after the last few weeks, with key players being out of contention, I am similarly pessimistic.
HAPPY CHRISTMAS, ALL.
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I do not want to have a pop at anybody least of all at Christmas but the proposition that Lerner, Faulkner and Lambert are more honest, are more hard working and have greater integrity than their predecessors cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
Paulie sums it up for me. Ask yourself is Randy Lerner working harder for the club than Doug Ellis did? Even in advancing age and struck by cancer Doug Ellis followed his team home and away. Do we see that level of work by Lerner? Do we see anything remotely like that level of work by Lerner? Does Paul Faulkner have greater integrity than Steve Stride? And as for honesty the most honest man at Villa Park in recent years has been the man we love to hate - Alex McLeish. He was a terrible manager and should never have been our manager but he was and remains, a decent, honest man who took the sack which was inevitable from the day he came, without bitterness or rancour and most importantly without ever slagging off the Villa. Is Lambert a more honest man than McLeish? In my book no.
Some say Villa changed on the way to Moscow, others say the day we signed Heskey and others say it was when we signed Marlon The Magnificent. I think it was when Lerner took it upon himself to fly to Corsica and appoint TSM. That was the point in our history when balancing the books became our number one priority.
Having an old and glorious football club in your ownership and prioritizing getting value for money out of it is like marrying a woman because she will cook you nice dinners and keep the house clean. It is an arrangement totally devoid of love and passion.
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Having an old and glorious football club in your ownership and prioritizing getting value for money out of it is like marrying a woman because she will cook you nice dinners and keep the house clean. It is an arrangement totally devoid of love and passion.
Nothing wrong with that as long she understands that I also have to follows he Villa home and away!
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Good balanced post Brian particularly your description of McLeish appointment. However it must be recognised that Doug always balanced the books first.
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I think Lambert should stay. Here's why;
1. The squad we have today is IMO both better, younger, hungrier, and most importantly, isn't draining money out of the club in wages, as the one he inherited in June 2012.
I think he should stay, too, but really, if that's the first line of the first reason, you've got to wonder how much our priorities have changed.
I don't want to clap my hands and shout because we've got a team of eager, young players who don't cost much. I want a squad of good players. Ideally they'll not cost too much.
I also am not a fan of the money-sapping wages MON saddled us with, but I don't think there's a single shred of evidence that this current squad is anywhere near better than any squad MON had - and I am including the 2006-7 one he inherited and couldn't really add to very much. That had a spine of a team already, including the likes of Gabby, Barry, Angel, Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma - decent players.
You'd have to be on some sort of mind-bending narcotics to really think that the current squad is collectively anywhere near as good as that handful of players alone, let alone their squad mates.
I don't mean this to sound like having a pop at you, because I am not, but if I wanted to cheer fiscal prudence and financial performance, I'd start watching share prices every Saturday afternoon instead.
I say all this as a Lambert supporter, but I genuinely can not believe the level of delusion amongst some of our fans re our current squad. It's a squad of players who'd - with two or three exceptions at most - would be of interest to almost nobody else in the PL. Massively mediocre stuff, lots of players with a huge amount to prove.
I hope they do and will continue to give them a chance, but I genuinely couldn't give a toss if they're young and hungry, I want them to be good.
agreed, far too much focus is put on players ages these days. It's all about the balance of the squad. quality is the most important attribute.
MON also inherited players from the academy of much superior quality than Lambert imo.
I was encouraged towards the end of last season with Lambert but he and the side have regressed since. We really look a very poor side right now. For all the hype of the EPL, the quality of the bottom ten sides is atrocious this term. To say we are 2 or 3 places higher than last season is saying very little in terms of progress imo
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Again, I know some people hate stats. But they can tell a story:
According to Opta, Villa's average possession this season stands at 42.18%, which is lower than last season (44.23%) and less than every Premier League club with the exception of Crystal Palace. They have made 6,013 passes and their passing accuracy is 73.92% – lower than last season in both cases (6,141 and 76.08% respectively) – and in both categories only Palace have a worse record.
From open play Villa have delivered 200 crosses, which is 12 fewer than in 2012-13 and the joint lowest in the league along with Palace. As for the number of long balls, Villa have played a higher percentage (16.38%) than they did last season and more than any other team in the league. For those fans searching for some positives in all of this number-crunching Villa have registered five more shots on target this term.
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Good balanced post Brian particularly your description of McLeish appointment. However it must be recognised that Doug always balanced the books first.
Not wanting to go over old ground in detail, Doug was a paid employee of the club, a position he created for himself. It was his job to be actively involved with the club. Lerner is the owner and does not have to have the same involvement as Doug. It does appear as though he has lost a lot of interest after finding out it was not so simple as throwing a lot of money at it.
The PL has moved on since Doug's days and now you need megga bucks to be successful. We missed the opportunity in the mid 90s when a fair amount of investment could have seen us as one of the 'Big 4'. The problem was, Doug only ever wanted to balance the books. Doug never had any money to give the club. Even when he made his millions when we were listed, he still did not want to invest any of his own money.
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I used to buy a turkey from my butcher for Christmas and get some local veg from the farmers market then cook it all using recipes from my favourite tv chefs. Last year I decided to save money and buy a turkey style roast from Iceland and some frozen veg. In order to save time on Christmas Day, I just chucked it in the oven and took it out a bit early. My guests pulled a face because it didn't taste very nice then spent a week puking and shitting.
This year, I've decided to do the same.
And your point is?
1. You get what you pay for
2. Serve up shite and you disappoint people
3. When you try something once and it's a disaster, give serious thought to doing exactly the and again.
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I am not in any way opposed to the balancing of the books. Doug did it and it needed doing. My point about Doug is that he loves football. The current owner is at best lukewarm about the game these days and it shows.
My anguish about the balancing of the books is TO WHAT END? What is to be achieved at Villa Park in the future years of financial stability? Balancing the books has become the ultimate and only ambition of the club in my opinion. Why we should want to balance the books is the question which is never addressed.
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Good post Brian i agree
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When we're using Doug Ellis as some kind of benchmark for stewardship, then you really know we've got problems.
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I am not in any way opposed to the balancing of the books. Doug did it and it needed doing. My point about Doug is that he loves football. The current owner is at best lukewarm about the game these days and it shows.
My anguish about the balancing of the books is TO WHAT END? What is to be achieved at Villa Park in the future years of financial stability? Balancing the books has become the ultimate and only ambition of the club in my opinion. Why we should want to balance the books is the question which is never addressed.
Why we should want to balance the books and get the house in order is that, if we want to 'go again' we need to have a suitable base to do that from. The squad left by mon needed to be ripped up and rebuilt, they were aging, overpaid players who had little interest in the club beyond the payroll system.
The current plan should be to get a young squad of players who want to be at the club (which seems to have happened) and then develop the ones who show promise and replace the others with better quality. As I've said before, our biggest problem right now is that we do't have the right balance in midfield, if we can fix that we have goals in our forwards and with Vlaar fit we have a solidity in defence that was missing before, and Okore looks like he'd be a great option as well.
A playmaker in midfield who wants to get the ball and get the team moving around him is the key player we need, then loan in a defender as cover and I'd like to see a wide forward with a bit of skill (I'm thinking someone like Ashley Young when he was at his best for us) who can beat is man and drag defenders out of position.
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Until our transfer policy changes do people honestly believe we can make significant progress and play exciting football just by sacking another manager? What will any new manager be able to do?
he might have some sort of clue . Lambert frustrated me last season and I was embarrassed with some of the results but I could kind of see what he was kind of doing , he had my full support. I cant see what he is doing at the moment .
People keep going on about not having a lot of money to spend but we have to remember we still had some players already here Gabby , Delph , probably been the years best player , Weimann , Guzan , yes resigned free of course , Albrighton and he is even embarrassing a lot of players at the moment , Clark , Baker , Herd and a great academy of young players to come through . Most the better players this season Lambert did not sign .
I think with £42 million roughly , it was not £42 million on a complete new first team, half a team already here playing Lambert didnt sign and with the young ones coming through , I would expect the team to be better than what it is . At least be able to pass the ball .
we need quality now not more Lidl signings
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Again, I know some people hate stats. But they can tell a story:
According to Opta, Villa's average possession this season stands at 42.18%, which is lower than last season (44.23%) and less than every Premier League club with the exception of Crystal Palace. They have made 6,013 passes and their passing accuracy is 73.92% – lower than last season in both cases (6,141 and 76.08% respectively) – and in both categories only Palace have a worse record.
From open play Villa have delivered 200 crosses, which is 12 fewer than in 2012-13 and the joint lowest in the league along with Palace. As for the number of long balls, Villa have played a higher percentage (16.38%) than they did last season and more than any other team in the league. For those fans searching for some positives in all of this number-crunching Villa have registered five more shots on target this term.
Are we the new Stoke?
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Lambert said about stats that they can 'fry your brain'. He sounds like Harry Redknapp. I am starting to worry that our progressive young manager is turning into a boggy Britisher manager.
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Lambert said about stats that they can 'fry your brain'. He sounds like Harry Redknapp. I am starting to worry that our progressive young manager is turning into a boggy Britisher manager.
He did, but like so many other things I don't everything he has said to the fans/media. Since then he has spoken of possession after the Fulham or Man U defeats so I'm pretty sure it's bothering him. That original stats comment came after the Southampton win so he was really wanting to concentrate on the win than anything else.
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Lambert said about stats that they can 'fry your brain'. He sounds like Harry Redknapp. I am starting to worry that our progressive young manager is turning into a boggy Britisher manager.
He did, but like so many other things I don't everything he has said to the fans/media. Since then he has spoken of possession after the Fulham or Man U defeats so I'm pretty sure it's bothering him. That original stats comment came after the Southampton win so he was really wanting to concentrate on the win than anything else.
Like I say, I think he does want to change things but I'm just unconvinced that he knows how. I'd still love him to succeed, I really would like nothing better than for him to turn it around, but the signs are growing that he doesn't know how.
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There are two ways of looking at this situation. Either Lambert's wasted money on players that can't play at this level, in which case he's incompetent. Or he's bought decent players that he can't make do what he wants them to, in which case he's not a manager. When he goes, I'll be sorry the theory didn't work out, but it's not working now and that's what I care about, ultimately.
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Lambert said about stats that they can 'fry your brain'. He sounds like Harry Redknapp. I am starting to worry that our progressive young manager is turning into a boggy Britisher manager.
He did, but like so many other things I don't everything he has said to the fans/media. Since then he has spoken of possession after the Fulham or Man U defeats so I'm pretty sure it's bothering him. That original stats comment came after the Southampton win so he was really wanting to concentrate on the win than anything else.
Like I say, I think he does want to change things but I'm just unconvinced that he knows how. I'd still love him to succeed, I really would like nothing better than for him to turn it around, but the signs are growing that he doesn't know how.
You have to think that every week in training he sets out to fix some of the ills of the week gone by. Yet, week after week now pretty much nothing has changed and the players haven't improved. That's a real problem.
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Lambert said about stats that they can 'fry your brain'. He sounds like Harry Redknapp. I am starting to worry that our progressive young manager is turning into a boggy Britisher manager.
He did, but like so many other things I don't everything he has said to the fans/media. Since then he has spoken of possession after the Fulham or Man U defeats so I'm pretty sure it's bothering him. That original stats comment came after the Southampton win so he was really wanting to concentrate on the win than anything else.
Like I say, I think he does want to change things but I'm just unconvinced that he knows how. I'd still love him to succeed, I really would like nothing better than for him to turn it around, but the signs are growing that he doesn't know how.
You have to think that every week in training he sets out to fix some of the ills of the week gone by. Yet, week after week now pretty much nothing has changed and the players haven't improved. That's a real problem.
I'd like to think that, but I just can't see the evidence. If he really had the right ideas about how to keep the ball properly, then how come every free kick, no matter whereabouts on the pitch, gets lumped into the opposition penalty area to no effect? I think he wants to get it right, I'm just unconvinced that he knows how.
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I'd love to hide in a tree at Bodymoor heath all week to see the training we actually do.
Imo it can't be anything more than just basic fitness work to make sure the players can stay competitive for 90 minutes?
If we are doing passing drills, then where on earth is the evidence on the pitch? Surely it would start showing given we're now halfway through the season. Our corners are still pathetic aswell so we certainly don't do any work on those.
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We had a free kick second half, and first Delph lined up to take it, then Clark, then Albrighton. The free kick then sailed over everyone and out for a goal kick. If that routine has been practiced, I want the person responsible for its inception shot.
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We had a free kick second half, and first Delph lined up to take it, then Clark, then Albrighton. The free kick then sailed over everyone and out for a goal kick. If that routine has been practiced, I want the person responsible for its inception shot.
They'd only miss the target.
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Time to reset the poll?
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You can modify your vote. No need for a reset.
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Like curious i supported PLs philosophy, get young hungry, quick , aggressive players in, play a high pressing game, win the ball high up the pitch, and let CB and others score.It started off well at Arse, and Chelsk, but the system failed miserably at home.This is where my doubts set in, PL seemed incabable, or unable to find a solutionHis failure to purchase a creative player, at least one, possibly 2, has been his achilles heel, and his failure to rectify this is why we are in such danger.Sland and Palace at home should have been 6 points, we got 1.If we don't win on saturday i think he needs to go.
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You can modify your vote. No need for a reset.
In which case only 23.8% of posters want him out, as it stands. Can't be right surely?
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It's how the poll is right now. so it is right. Anyone can change their vote if they want to.
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Just like the free kick when nobody assumed responsibility to take it, we had a corner and our defenders had to have a conversation about who would go forward and who would stay back. By the time they decided the corner had been taken and cleared. In training it should be drummed into them what the routine is and they should know it not need to hang about on the half way line deciding what to do
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We had many poor performances under Houllier although I accept that was a proper transition season. But just look back at December 2010....lost 3 nil at Liverpool (infamous Houllier love in with them), lost 1-2 at home to Spurs who played about 70 minutes with ten men, lost 4-0 at Man. City, lost 1 nil at home to Sunderland in which 90% of the ground was calling him to be sacked the next morning.
I still can't get my head round how we actually finished 9th that season considering we were in the bottom mix for so long. Those final two wins at Arsenal and at home to Liverpool were just flukes really considering what had gone on for the previous 8 months.
Poor performances yes but Houllier had a philosophy and was slowly but surely implementing it. From signing Bent onwards, we were 6th/7th in the form table. It should be noted that he suffered the worst injury crisis that I have ever seen at Villa in the first half of the season, inherited a bunch of retrograde MON-picked cloggers who weren't even conductive to his style of play, had to put down at least two player revolts from the same over-pampered cloggers and had no pre-season or chance to really shape the team.
In contrast, Lambert has been here 18 months, had two pre-seasons, three transfer windows and is still no closer to implementing his brand of football whatever that is supposed to be. He has also had the chance to reshape the squad as he wills.
I can't believe there are people who did and maybe still do believe Lambert was a better manager then Houllier. He isn't even fit to be Houllier's assistant.
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Well hopefully the crowds response to the palace defeat will act as a kick up the backside to him.
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Well hopefully the crowds response to the palace defeat will act as a kick up the backside to him.
I was thinking that earlier. I'm not sure he's been on the end of boos like that so how he reacts will be interesting.
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Well he's had it very comfortable so far, no expectations, fans patiently putting up with appalling records broken. Now it's time for him to earn his corn.
I'd expect us to come out fired up for the first 20 minutes. If we get sucker punched and fall behind I can see the beginning of the end.
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Well hopefully the crowds response to the palace defeat will act as a kick up the backside to him.
I was thinking that earlier. I'm not sure he's been on the end of boos like that so how he reacts will be interesting.
He's not likely to get a kick up the backside from anyone else.
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This has echos of when we lost to Spurs dismally last boxing day and everyone thought we'd get a result the next game at home to Wigan despite having half a team out. We lost 3-0.
A similar result tomorrow and I really don't see a way back this time for him.
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We'll simply pick ourselves up and go again against a resurgent Sunderland.
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I think the Villa fans have been superb with their support. Despite the dreadful home record over the last few seasons, the average attendance is still very good. The tide is turning quickly against Lambert and a defeat tomorrow makes his position pretty untenable. I certainly wouldn't give him any more money to waste on the same shit he has purchased over the last two seasons. This puts Randy in a difficult position too. He might be thinking: Do I give him money to waste or shall I keep the cash and spend it on firing him and hiring someone else?
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Given Lambert's transfer record when he's allowed to spend sizeable amounts of money on players. I'd give him the money.
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Given Lambert's transfer record when he's allowed to spend sizeable amounts of money on players. I'd give him the money.
Really? I know Kozak has been needed due to Benteke being out but spending £7m on him when it was blindingly obvious we needed a number 10 and a centre midfielder doesn't fill me with confidence.
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Kozak has done well and is improving.
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He was awful on Thursday.
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Kozak has done well and is improving.
To be honest i'm still not convinced. Not seen anything yet other than enthusiasm
Basically we sent a 6 yard striker in Bent out on loan and then bought a younger one for 7m. Even though we don't have the supply line to get the best out of either
I'm sure there was some logic to it somewhere
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He was awful on Thursday.
They were ALL awful except perhaps albrighton but even he consistently fails to ever find a villa player when he crosses.
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I feel sorry for Kozak a finisher without supply he will always look a waste of money.
Getting back to Lambert, i give him credit for re-signing Guzan probably the best he has done at Villa, Vlaar is decent and we miss him, Okore well who knows ditto Kozak, Benteke will get back on form eventually if he stays. The players who Lambert has paid reasonable money for have all done well it's the
bargain buys that he has filled the squad with that have not performed and are probably incapable of whats being asked of them.
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Vlaar isn't dominant enough for my liking. He is adjusting ok as he's now had a full season but I think is a lower half of the premier league type player, like many of them in the current squad. That said, we need his experience in there at the moment.
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Vlaar has been excellent this season and even last his return was fundamental to us stating up
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He was awful on Thursday.
They were ALL awful except perhaps albrighton but even he consistently fails to ever find a villa player when he crosses.
As much down to piss poor movement from his teammates than his own delivery more often than not IMO.
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I think the Villa fans have been superb with their support. Despite the dreadful home record over the last few seasons, the average attendance is still very good.
There's no doubt Lambert has been shown an extraordinary amount of support from the fans. There aren't many clubs where he'd have had the support he had from us last season. OK, a lot of it was to do with what came before him, but even so, that support was there.
I struggle to think of many clubs where the manager, had he had a record like Lambert's last season, would have kept the support of both the fans and the chairman as he did.
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If we lose the next 2, making it 6 straight defeats and 2 wins in what, 10 at home this season, it is impossible to see a way he could retain the faith of either. Incredibly I think he will, but how the home fans will react to that in say the home game with West Brom at the end of Jan will be scary. It could get messy this as Randy doesn't seem like the type to get rid especially with Lambert and he sharing a good relationship. God I hope we win tomorrow and at Sunderland and can see some light. I really hope this is bottom.
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I've said on other threads that my faith has gone in Lambert - I truly hope that today we get it together and relieve the pressure but I suspect by 5pm this place will be carnage with open season on Lambert Out!
Dealing with Lerner first, I'm not ready to blame everything on him, it is obvious he has made some stupid decisions ie giving Quitty the keys to the safe / Houllier (probably ill judged) / McLeish was never a go-er / not having anyone on the board with any knowledge of football etc etc but I still look at the Yeung's / Tan's / Sisu's and think we cannot risk letting our club end up with charlatans like those.
In terms of the cost cutting this Financial Fair Play thing interests me, I have no understanding of accounts or the like but the headline I remember is that you cannot post combined losses of more than £105m over a 3 yr period and the first year being the current one - didn't we used to post £50-60m losses per annum?? if that's the case then surely there is a regulatory reason for cutbacks??
Lerner needs someone on the board with football knowledge, someone who can both support and hold a manager to account.
Moving onto Lambert, his job has to live or die by his decisions - he & he alone has chosen to not buy any experienced players or leaders to try and help us through this mythical transition project, for 18 months he has had a free run at it and pretty much completed the job of moving on the old high earners but as we come towards a 4th transfer window some things seriously concern me;
- how in 3 previous windows as he failed to buy a single good midfielder
- at Villa or any previous club he has not proved he can manage a 'name'
- is he looking to invest in any proven quality or is he only about taking punts on cheap foreign squad fillers in the hope that it comes off
- why have all the players that got new contracts over the summer gone off the boil?
No disrespect to Norwich or the job he did there but whilst he was in charge it was a club with expectations that are way below ours, we expect to compete in the top half of the league, that is not arrogance it is a minimum expectation for a club that has been established in this league since Sky invented football - my question is whether he is capable to make the jump up from talented managerial prospect to be the real deal, like 95% of the players he has signed we still do not have a clue!?!
He has had a bit of bad luck with his best two centre halves being injured, most teams would struggle with numbers 3 and 4 at the heart of defence but you have to ask do they do any coaching with the pair of them as they make the same stupid mistakes that rookies can be forgiven for, these pair are no longer rookies and shouldn't be hiding behind a 'senior' defender anymore.
Every discussion I have on Lambert comes back to the midfield, you would hope an international quality midfielder would be able to spot one to buy - Delph is the only worthy of a shirt and he was inherited. Punts on Jonny Averages' from a middle ranking Dutch league side are not acceptable, does he have it in him to find QUALITY? EXPERIENCE? LEADERS?
Everything comes back to those three words QUALITY/EXPERIENCE/LEADERS....Benteke , re-signing Guzan yes - Vlaar & Okore maybe....cant see anything else that he has brought in that meet any of those three words.
What we have to remember is in any workplace most projects fail, sometimes success can be judged on knowing when to bail out of a project...is it time??
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After the two most embarrassing results in the club's 138 history he kept his job, so losing 6 on the bounce will be nothing to Lerner...
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He was awful on Thursday.
They were ALL awful except perhaps albrighton but even he consistently fails to ever find a villa player when he crosses.
As much down to piss poor movement from his teammates than his own delivery more often than not IMO.
He does not look to hit his players in the box or those coming in late, he just knocks it into the space where he thinks a player should be. You compare him with someone like Valencia and he finds his players wherever they are in the box because he is aware of their positions before he gets in a position to cross and finally looks before he plays the ball. Albrighton has not improved since he first broke into the team and the opposition have worked him out which means he is less effective.
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The problem with albrighton's crossing is that he gets his head down when he crosses a lot of the time. As per the post above he doesn't pick a man out directly too much
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The problem with albrighton's crossing is that he gets his head down when he crosses a lot of the time. As per the post above he doesn't pick a man out directly too much
One of a dozen or so in today's match day squad who are frankly not good enough
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The problem with albrighton's crossing is that he gets his head down when he crosses a lot of the time. As per the post above he doesn't pick a man out directly too much
Hit and hope comes to mind.
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I think Albrighton's been one of the plus points in the last few games.
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Great post above from Gareth.
As for Albrighton, he is just being Albrighton.
The odd flash of a bit of quality (Man U) and then absolute mediocrity. He is never a premier league player.
He did not suddenly become a top quality player whilst away on loan, and when he did go, most weren't too concerned to see him go.
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I think Albrighton's been one of the plus points in the last few games.
Can't fault his effort or workrate but his final delivery needs to improve .
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The passing and movement from the two or three early games this season seem like a lifetime ago now, how can all the players ( even KEA ) be at the top of their game together, then a few months down the line all be playing like strangers.
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I think Albrighton's been one of the plus points in the last few games.
Probably only playing for a contract like Andi.
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Very good post that gareth.
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He does not look to hit his players in the box or those coming in late, he just knocks it into the space where he thinks a player should be. You compare him with someone like Valencia and he finds his players wherever they are in the box because he is aware of their positions before he gets in a position to cross and finally looks before he plays the ball. Albrighton has not improved since he first broke into the team and the opposition have worked him out which means he is less effective.
I don't get the above TBH
A wingers job is to get the ball into the danger area, it's then the striker or whoever else is coming in to get on the end of it surely?. You don't have to drop the ball right on a standing players head, you stick it in the danger zone and expect them to make an effort to get on the end of it. Ask Andy Gray, from an era when that was the strikers job
Plus ..
Wasn't it Albrighton's corner in the first half that led to one of the Palace players knocking it over their own bar ?
Wasn't it Albrighton that played that wonderful disguised through ball to Lowton for the cross Weimann hoofed over the bar ?
Apart from Guzan he was the only player that came out of the match with any credit to my eyes. And maybe Lowton in the attacking sense
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He was the only player who looked like he could do something that would fashion a chance for sure. There were a couple of occasions where he did not hit a man when he had loads of times to cross which was frustrating though.
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That brilliant disguised pass to Lowton showed that Albrighton has ability, he has just been lacking confidence so lets stick with him.
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The passing and movement from the two or three early games this season seem like a lifetime ago now, how can all the players ( even KEA ) be at the top of their game together, then a few months down the line all be playing like strangers.
I don't recall that much passing and movement in any game this season. Maybe bits of the Arsenal game. But against Chelsea we couldn't keep the ball for the first forty minutes and then went quite direct. Against Liverpool we did have a fair amount of the ball but that's because Liverpool dropped off.
The deterioration in our passing and movement from last season is the biggest issue for me this year. I remember even the Man U away game last year thinking 'our defence is shit, but we look really dangerous going forwards, great movement, all on the deck, two touch and one touch passing'.
For all the criticism about the players not being good enough, we had a sustained period last year when Westwood, Weimann, Lowton, Benteke, Gabby, Vlaar, Guzan, and even at times Sylla, N'Zogbia, and occasionally even Bennett and Baker absolutely were good enough. I'm prepared to accept that the last lot just aren't up to it on a consistent basis (though I'd bloody love N'Zogbia to be an option now). But I'm not ready to give up on that first lot. I saw enough to think they can be good enough.
The problem as we all know is that becsuse we're absolutely reliant on Guzan, Vlaar and Benteke, and because we can't carry dips in form from the others I mention, we really struggle when others are out of form.
I don't feel at all positive about today's game. But I imagine that around half of the clubs in the premier league have had spells this season when the fans have been in absolute despair as we are now (Sunderland, Cardiff, West Ham, Norwich, Newcastle, Fulham, Palace, West Brom, Stoke). Those clubs aren't all going down, but I suspect fans of all those clubs plus us have had spells this season where teh consensus has been, 'we're doomed'.
Still think we'll lose today unfortunately though!
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I've been pleased with Albrighton since he came back in the side. He's the one creative spark we appear to have this minute. But I think its the sorry state of Lamberts squad to be honest. Though I like Alby and think he's playing well, I'm still not convinced the lad is Premiership quality in the long term. This is the level of the majority of our squad and why we're still in trouble.
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I think Albrighton's been one of the plus points in the last few games.
He has , and I like Marc but he isnt a Prem player , shows how backwards we have gone . He was never in Lamberts plans.
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Great post above from Gareth.
As for Albrighton, he is just being Albrighton.
The odd flash of a bit of quality (Man U) and then absolute mediocrity. He is never a premier league player.
He did not suddenly become a top quality player whilst away on loan, and when he did go, most weren't too concerned to see him go.
It sums up our desperation that Marc Albrighton is brought back into the fold more in hope than any expectation.
When Herd and Albrighton are dragged out again you know you are in real trouble.
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In terms of performances on the pitch there's few sides as dog shit as we are right now. Poyet has got Sunderland looking more competitive. Fulham look a better outfit under the new guy. Pulis has done well at Palace. Stoke are quite solid under Hughes, West Ham are still struggling, but a center forward could change their fortunes.
The baggies and Cardiff are in a bit of a mess but both could make the right appointment.
Something needs to happen fast. We can't keep playing so poorly. Eventually, as we've seen from going 5 unbeaten, to losing 4 on the spin, the results start to match what you're doing on the pitch. We could very easily find ourselves propping the lot up by the time January has ended.
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Just checked the 94/95 season, Big Ron was sacked following a terrible period when he lost 8 games out of 9 picking up a point in the other game, Deadly was known for having a twitchy trigger finger but think he was pretty patient in that horror run, Lambert has picked up 9 points from the last 9 games, I think we will have to fall a lot further before Lerner acts if at all.
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In terms of performances on the pitch there's few sides as dog shit as we are right now. Poyet has got Sunderland looking more competitive. Fulham look a better outfit under the new guy. Pulis has done well at Palace. Stoke are quite solid under Hughes, West Ham are still struggling, but a center forward could change their fortunes.
The baggies and Cardiff are in a bit of a mess but both could make the right appointment.
Something needs to happen fast. We can't keep playing so poorly. Eventually, as we've seen from going 5 unbeaten, to losing 4 on the spin, the results start to match what you're doing on the pitch. We could very easily find ourselves propping the lot up by the time January has ended.
Spot on. We were complacent because we were getting results.
There was no way you can continue getting results when the opposition have the ball and you can't pass it. Eventually the luck runs out.
So what if we were 11th and were on a decent run, it's a blessing if you are getting the results whilst not putting in the performances. Try to fix the problems before they become real big problems. We haven't, we just pointed to the league table.
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Very good post that gareth.
cheers
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Just checked the 94/95 season, Big Ron was sacked following a terrible period when he lost 8 games out of 9 picking up a point in the other game, Deadly was known for having a twitchy trigger finger but think he was pretty patient in that horror run, Lambert has picked up 9 points from the last 9 games, I think we will have to fall a lot further before Lerner acts if at all.
The biggest difference is we didn't have transfer windows then so if Lerner wants to protect his Premiership income & feels Lambert isn't the man he will have to act earlier
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In terms of performances on the pitch there's few sides as dog shit as we are right now. Poyet has got Sunderland looking more competitive. Fulham look a better outfit under the new guy. Pulis has done well at Palace. Stoke are quite solid under Hughes, West Ham are still struggling, but a center forward could change their fortunes.
The baggies and Cardiff are in a bit of a mess but both could make the right appointment.
Something needs to happen fast. We can't keep playing so poorly. Eventually, as we've seen from going 5 unbeaten, to losing 4 on the spin, the results start to match what you're doing on the pitch. We could very easily find ourselves propping the lot up by the time January has ended.
Spot on. We were complacent because we were getting results.
There was no way you can continue getting results when the opposition have the ball and you can't pass it. Eventually the luck runs out.
So what if we were 11th and were on a decent run, it's a blessing if you are getting the results whilst not putting in the performances. Try to fix the problems before they become real big problems. We haven't, we just pointed to the league table.
The fans just pointed to the league table because that's all we can do. We have to trust the manager, coaches and players to see that there are problems and work on them. As I said at the time (when we were 11th) if we're going to play shit I'll accept shit with points because I don't think we'll be shit for the rest of the season and the points we earned were enough of a base that we should've been safe. What we have now is poor performances and bad results, which means turning things around needs to come sooner. I'll happily take 3 points and a shit performance today though.
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Just checked the 94/95 season, Big Ron was sacked following a terrible period when he lost 8 games out of 9 picking up a point in the other game, Deadly was known for having a twitchy trigger finger but think he was pretty patient in that horror run, Lambert has picked up 9 points from the last 9 games, I think we will have to fall a lot further before Lerner acts if at all.
Even some of the best managers eventually get found out and it starts going a bit wrong. In Rons case I think the Prem was leaving him behind, but the worrying think with Lambert is how quickly he's been found out. We had an effective Feb-May (which was still just mid-table form) but teams have been setting up to stop us this season and thus far he's had no answer. Managers like Hughes, Pulis etc have out thought Lambert with relative ease in recent games, and I think it's shown him up for what he is. Tactically nowhere near Premiership level.
Honestly even McLeish had more of an idea about an efficient game plan. That may well have been to absolutely ruin games, and it did fall apart when we had injuries, but there was some kind of a plan, as fuck ugly as it was. And lets face it, what Eck has achieved in the management game is largely what Lambert, at this point could only dream of. I'm not saying we lost a good manager by any means. He was bloody awful, but whilst people still say Lambert deserves time, by the same token we never really afforded McLeish a manager with a little more nous (a little), that same time. Neither Randy or the fans. He got the can because we couldn't hack any more of it.
But that's our level right now. We need a genuinely considered manager. Someone who's more effective in taking the talk, and putting the words into action. Something a little better than "We go again..." Then just send out the side doing exactly the same things.
Essentially Lambert's game plan is to treat his players like pound shop toys. You pull the chord on their back, or wind them up, release them and let them whizz around until they've run out of energy, hoping, often in vein, that they might outscore the opposition.
Even at our best under Lambert it was a bit 100mph, and a little like organised chaos.
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I like Albrighton and am glad he's playing better. But honestly though he's standing out because those around him have been so poor, and we are crying for anyone at all to step up.
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Personally I think Albrighton's approach to crossing is the correct thing to do. If the forward are moving for him by crossing into the channel he aims for he turns defenders to playing towards their own goal. The key is that you need to have strikers in place to force the defenders to play the ball.
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After that post match interview with Pat Murphy, I'm not so sure anymore, he's out of his depth and beginning to sound a lot like O'Leary.
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Christ after reading the transcript, its a depressing mix of realising how much Lambert is accepting of our mediocrity and how little hope we have of Lerner shaking things up...
"I knew the first few years would be tough..."
Bloody hell, just how many YEARS of this garbage are we going to be subjected to?
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The 'project' is called 'Project Throw In' You wait and see, in a few years time, a Villa player will throw the ball into the field of play to another Villa player, it will be worth waiting for.
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I'm sorry but his lack of awareness is terrifying, 'stats don't matter' and 'the first few years would be tough'. Paul the stats do matter, you need possession to win most games and we are an absolutely atrocious side. It simply isn't good enough and neither are 90% of our players.
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The 'project' is called 'Project Throw In' You wait and see, in a few years time, a Villa player will throw the ball into the field of play to another Villa player, it will be worth waiting for.
There was one throw in today that was a short one to Weimann. He had to dive to head it.
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We just look like a bunch of blokes that have just turned up at 2.50pm outside the ground or taken from the Holte end and asked to play a game of football without even meeting or training in the week.
There is nothing good at all about our football, no decent passing, no awareness, panicky clearences, schoolboy errors from throw ins, it's embarrassing as it's happening game after game.
Training at Bodymoor can't amount to anything more than general fitness to remain competitive at premier league level otherwise we'd be seeing these deficiencies corrected eventually.
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I like Albrighton and am glad he's playing better. But honestly though he's standing out because those around him have been so poor, and we are crying for anyone at all to step up.
I think there's probably a certain amount of truth in that.
When Albrighton came back in, we still looked woefully uncreative, but we were at least woefully uncreative in different ways.
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I've been right behind Lambert but having witnessed another horror show today I am beginning to wonder whether anything will change in the near future. The team that started today contained at least 5 of Lambert signings. Ideally another 2 would have probably given us a stronger team (Vlaar and Benteke). The questions are: should he be allowed another window to try and bring in greater strength? and, are his signings the limit of his ambition or the limit of the board?
If the former then it might be time to bite the bullet and let someone else play with Daddy's piggy bank and if the latter....well fuck knows to be honest, it took a while to get rid of HDE, didn't it?
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After that post match interview with Pat Murphy, I'm not so sure anymore, he's out of his depth and beginning to sound a lot like O'Leary.
I was really glad when we got him. He now seems to have shot his bolt. I may be wrong. Sunderland and Sheff Utd - let's see how he does.
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After that post match interview with Pat Murphy, I'm not so sure anymore, he's out of his depth and beginning to sound a lot like O'Leary.
I was really glad when we got him. He now seems to have shot his bolt. I may be wrong. Sunderland and Sheff Utd - let's see how he does.
If he loses the Sheff Utd game I'm not sure there's any coming back from that, short of suddenly going on a winning run in Barca-esque style.
Which won't happen.
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Lambert didn't get sacked when we were marooned in the bottom three and getting bear 8-0 and over two legs by Bradford
He's not about to get sacked when we're thirteenth, no matter whether his assistant manager swore at a fan or not
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January is going to be a big month. I reckon things will improve.
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Yesterday, of the 27% possession we had, we only managed a 55% pass completion rate.
That is staggeringly poor. I don't understand how we can manage to be so inept at the basics
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Yesterday, of the 27% possession we had, we only managed a 55% pass completion rate.
That is staggeringly poor. I don't understand how we can manage to be so inept at the basics
I said this elsewhere, Lambert can't even get the basic training ground stuff right so how on earth can he be expected to get the serious stuff right?
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Christ after reading the transcript, its a depressing mix of realising how much Lambert is accepting of our mediocrity and how little hope we have of Lerner shaking things up...
"I knew the first few years would be tough..."
Bloody hell, just how many YEARS of this garbage are we going to be subjected to?
That's going to be a tough sell at ST renewal time.
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You know what would be interesting. A written statement or preferably a video interview with our owner Mr Lerner asking him for his views on football in general. Not necessarily about Aston Villa but at least something that might give us some idea of why football ownership is important to him.
But it will never happen im afraid.
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You know what would be interesting. A written statement or preferabaly a video interview with our owner Mr Lerner asking him for his views on football in general. Not necessarily about Aston Villa but at least something that might give us some idea of why football ownership is important to him.
But it will never happen im afraid.
In years gone by the Meaning Evil would have run a "Villa in Crisis" series for days (with us on the front page). These days they won't - it's too much journalistic work and effort when they've got loads of rubbish like the local X-Factor celeb/Someone having their wrong toenail cut off/People who can't read road signs and get fined/Barry Austin/insert other cud of your choice to fill the pages. Look at how they spun the Library being lit up in claret and blue.
No wonder their circulation has declined.
Of course there is the shambles at St.Andrews, and any serious local newspaper would be covering that in detail, but again, the Evil can't be bothered as it is too much like hard work. They are waiting for the poo to hit the fan, rather than finding out about what the poo is made up of.
However Mark Regan the sports editor at BBC WM tweeted that he'd asked Paul Faulkner for an interview, but was declined. Keeping asking Mark. Make a nuisance of yourself.
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Christ after reading the transcript, its a depressing mix of realising how much Lambert is accepting of our mediocrity and how little hope we have of Lerner shaking things up...
"I knew the first few years would be tough..."
Bloody hell, just how many YEARS of this garbage are we going to be subjected to?
That's going to be a tough sell at ST renewal time.
Nah, you just need a good marketing slogan. 'We go again into 2014/15!'
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You know what would be interesting. A written statement or preferabaly a video interview with our owner Mr Lerner asking him for his views on football in general. Not necessarily about Aston Villa but at least something that might give us some idea of why football ownership is important to him.
But it will never happen im afraid.
In years gone by the Meaning Evil would have run a "Villa in Crisis" series for days (with us on the front page). These days they won't - it's too much journalistic work and effort when they've got loads of rubbish like the local X-Factor celeb/Someone having their wrong toenail cut off/People who can't read road signs and get fined/Barry Austin/insert other cud of your choice to fill the pages. Look at how they spun the Library being lit up in claret and blue.
No wonder their circulation has declined.
Of course there is the shambles at St.Andrews, and any serious local newspaper would be covering that in detail, but again, the Evil can't be bothered as it is too much like hard work. They are waiting for the poo to hit the fan, rather than finding out about what the poo is made up of.
However Mark Regan the sports editor at BBC WM tweeted that he'd asked Paul Faulkner for an interview, but was declined. Keeping asking Mark. Make a nuisance of yourself.
If there's one media outlet the Villa are entitled to turn down it's WM. If you want to see what Paul Faulkner has to say you can look here http://www.villatrust.org.uk/wp-content/themes/villatrust.org.uk/files/AVST_AGM_Oct2013.pdf , at sundry Mail pages or I'm sure I can find a copy of the H&V interview he did at the start of the season.
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https://twitter.com/rego1965/status/416919166026006528 (https://twitter.com/rego1965/status/416919166026006528)
Says it all really. Club are not prepared to face the heat. If that is the case, certain individuals should not be in the kitchen.
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It's most likely why WM have such a downer on us and if so it's all very childish of them. They're not entitled to get exclusive interviews and if they did they'd probably pick holes in it.
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Wasn't there a falling out between BBC Radio Norwich and Norwich City F.C. during Lamberts time there?
I think if the local paper or the beeb come knocking and ask for an interview then the club should seek to facilitate something with an official, even if it is not with Lambert or Faulkner. To draw up the bridge and say "we don't want to talk to you" suggests something to hide and is, if I may say, the behaviour of B-Lose in the Sullivan years. It does not sound like very good PR.
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WM have been hoisted by their own petard. Spend your entire time slagging the club off at every opportunity and expect to be shunned.
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Wasn't there a falling out between BBC Radio Norwich and Norwich City F.C. during Lamberts time there?
I think if the local paper or the beeb come knocking and ask for an interview then the club should seek to facilitate something with an official, even if it is not with Lambert or Faulkner.
You know as well as I do that even if they did that, they would be asking why Paul Faulkner or Randy didn't do it. WM would especially.
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Wasn't there a falling out between BBC Radio Norwich and Norwich City F.C. during Lamberts time there?
I think if the local paper or the beeb come knocking and ask for an interview then the club should seek to facilitate something with an official, even if it is not with Lambert or Faulkner. To draw up the bridge and say "we don't want to talk to you" suggests something to hide and is, if I may say, the behaviour of B-Lose in the Sullivan years. It does not sound like very good PR.
The first sentence gave me a mental picture of Lambert having a row with Alan Partridge.
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Wasn't there a falling out between BBC Radio Norwich and Norwich City F.C. during Lamberts time there?
I think if the local paper or the beeb come knocking and ask for an interview then the club should seek to facilitate something with an official, even if it is not with Lambert or Faulkner. To draw up the bridge and say "we don't want to talk to you" suggests something to hide and is, if I may say, the behaviour of B-Lose in the Sullivan years. It does not sound like very good PR.
The first sentence gave me a mental picture of Lambert having a row with Alan Partridge.
You feed beef burgers to Andi Weimann.
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Wasn't there a falling out between BBC Radio Norwich and Norwich City F.C. during Lamberts time there?
I think if the local paper or the beeb come knocking and ask for an interview then the club should seek to facilitate something with an official, even if it is not with Lambert or Faulkner. To draw up the bridge and say "we don't want to talk to you" suggests something to hide and is, if I may say, the behaviour of B-Lose in the Sullivan years. It does not sound like very good PR.
The first sentence gave me a mental picture of Lambert having a row with Alan Partridge.
You feed beef burgers to Andi Weimann.
Clampy, you've just won the internet with that one, hands down.
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https://twitter.com/rego1965/status/416919166026006528 (https://twitter.com/rego1965/status/416919166026006528)
Says it all really. Club are not prepared to face the heat. If that is the case, certain individuals should not be in the kitchen.
Not sure I'd agree with that.
I am as sick of the horrible performances as the next man, but what do people actually expect the club to say to this?
There's no need to say anything, it is a case of doing something, not talking about it.
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WM trying to play holier than thou while spending every night slagging the Villa off to high heaven is hardly likely to get them an interview. The whole lot of WM reporters are royal arseholes to the villa so hardly a shock they are not keen to do an interview, and what are they going to say anyway?
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Mark Regan @rego1965 28 Dec
#avfc re my interview request to speak to Paul Faulkner 'when we have something to say, we'll do the interview'. Make of that what you will.
PF aka Carbon Neutral is Andrew Eldritch and I claim my £5!
I got nothing to say I ain't said before
I bled all I can, I won't bleed no more
I don't need no one to understand
Why the blood run hold
The hired hand
On heart
Hand of god
Floodland and driven apart
Run cold
Turn
Cold
Burn
Like a healing hand
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I've lost faith completely now. The team has been dire for over a couple of months, we are tactically inept and most of the players he's signed are massively out of their depth.
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Well done Lambert, a new low at Villa Park, losing and being totally out played and out thought by a 3rd tier team currently residing 18th in the 3rd tier.
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Disappointed it didn't work, I really wanted it to, but to be honest right now there would be some relief as we are having too many poor performances and results under him. I don't think he will go though.
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Fucking shit.
No confidence at all. Only a manager can change that.
We are fucking awful. No game plan, no nothing. Pathetic.
Lambert can fuck off. We are embarrassing.
Our position doesn't justify how shit we are. How many games can you say we played well in? Very few.
Needs to resign or be sacked. Today.
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I think he should definitely go now, other managers have been sacked for a lot less.
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Disappointed it didn't work, I really wanted it to, but to be honest right now there would be some relief as we are having too many poor performances and results under him. I don't think he will go though.
As you say, he won't go, even though is probably estimate the vast majority want him to go.
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Well done Lambert, a new low at Villa Park, losing and being totally out played and out thought by a 3rd tier team currently residing 18th in the 3rd tier.
At least it's an improvement on last year's humiliation where we were outthought and beaten by a 4th tier side.
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Think he should go, he cannot seem to improve the home performances from the current awful standard. I have lost confidence that he has the ability to change things for the better even if given funds.
Suspect he won't go but hope he does.
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Well done Lambert, a new low at Villa Park, losing and being totally out played and out thought by a 3rd tier team currently residing 18th in the 3rd tier.
At least it's an improvement on last year's humiliation where we were outthought and beaten by a 4th tier side.
How is it an improvement? Bradford needed 2 attempts, Sheffield United only needed the 1.
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Can something just happen now, week by week we get worse and worse looking for pathetic crumbs of comfort and burying our head in the sand. Possession does count you dick head Lambert, one game of stats prove nothing. 25 say everything. We are the worst footballing side in the division and the last 2 years we,'ve slumped further and further breaking all manner of terrible records. He has spent 43 million quid to create a squad that cannot pass, cannot tackle, cannot defend and cannot score, they are good at picking up yellow cards though. We have become a niggly, long ball, pack of headless chickens, we collect so many cards because the players he bought and coaches are always out of position or behind play. The players that looked ok have gotten worse under his coaching and we look like we practice nothing football related in training apart from running.
We are a total shambles at the moment and I personally need some respite from it and Lambert weekly bullshit and lies that he spouts.
No excuses, you and this cosy relationship you have with uncle Randy is not good for us. You should be embarrassed by your failure to produce any thing resembling football against teams that cost a fraction of your outlay. Money is no excuse for the team you have created.
Please leave.
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Well done Lambert, a new low at Villa Park, losing and being totally out played and out thought by a 3rd tier team currently residing 18th in the 3rd tier.
At least it's an improvement on last year's humiliation where we were outthought and beaten by a 4th tier side.
How is it an improvement? Bradford needed 2 attempts, Sheffield United only needed the 1.
Ha ha, good point.
Can't beat gallows humour.
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WE NEED A NEW POll
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No we don't. Anyone can remove their previous vote and then vote for a different option if they want to.
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No we don't. Anyone can remove their previous vote and then vote for a different option if they want to.
Thanks
I have now voted for him to stay - obviously
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He has actually had some money to spend in his time at Villa and he hasn't actually spent it very well at all on the whole.
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I think we should stop kidding ourselves that if we stick with him he will prove to be our Moyes.
When he joined, I thought he would instill resilience and at least build a decent midfield given that he was a good midfielder himself.
However, I am not sure we can sack him because this squad of players are his players. It's not like your typical under performing premier league squad where a new man can come in and get a reaction. These players may just not be good enough and a new man probably won't get much more out of them. In fact, a new man would more likely shake their own self.
We aren't in a good position at all.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
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Lambert is on a par with Mcleish now, because make no mistake our side is just as bad going forward.
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
But we were very lucky against Sunderland, that was a race to the bottom by 2 awful teams.
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
The table is very tight - all of the bottom half are in danger of dropping - 6 points off the relegation zone with some tough fixtures ahead is far from comfortable .
I expect to be in the bottom 6 in a fortnight a time .
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Lambert is on a par with Mcleish now, because make no mistake our side is just as bad going forward.
Wrong. McLeish had a plan and was able to instil that plan in his players, as bad as the plan and the football was he was able in that respect, Lambert however seems incapable.
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Disappointed it didn't work, I really wanted it to, but to be honest right now there would be some relief as we are having too many poor performances and results under him. I don't think he will go though.
We were not lucky against Sunderland, we had the much better chances, and their keeper made the better saves, but I agree with the above.
I have sympathy - loising a 3rd centre half just before kick off is a big blow, but the decision to bring in Tonev seems odd to me. Mainly though, he has to start winning at Villa Park, and seemingly has no clue how to do that no matter who we play. 3-5-2 and dominate midfield and free up a striker at home to a league 1 side? Nope, rigid with his 4-3-3 that has not a chance of working with Weimann way out of form and IMO talent, and there being such little to stretch the opposition.
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We are 11th which sounds great until you realise we are ten points off Newcastle in 8th and six ahead of Palace who are 18th.
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What I can't understand is people shrugging their shoulders and saying 'who are we going to get that's better?', like we're playing boring, functional football. We play terrible, suicidal football, and tactically, Lambert doesn't have an inkling of how to make a good side.
I'm not saying get anyone, because there are clearly people unsuitable for the job. But anyone with a bit of purpose or tactical nous would surely improve us right now? I think Paulie's right - he's still here, because it costs too much to replace him. That's so sad.
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We are 11th which sounds great until you realise we are ten points off Newcastle in 8th and six ahead of Palace who are 18th.
11th sounds great??? We're shit and without the luck we'd be much lower.
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Has he gone yet?
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Tbh CL, luck goes both ways doesn't it. Benteke going off the boil for so long, and the goals generally drying up. Not to mention the injuries. There was an unbeaten run of 5 matches around Oct/nov, and the defence has improved since last season (going by goal difference) I was expecting an up and down season, but today has been dire!
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
But we were very lucky against Sunderland, that was a race to the bottom by 2 awful teams.
We weren't very lucky against Sunderland. They were lucky we barely know how to score anymore because it could have been 5 for us. They had 1 shot on target. It isn't any consolation for today I admit.
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Journalist who reported the FAC quote thing.
Mark Regan @rego1965 1m
I regret asking the question of PL coz it resulted in my work being butchered as well as 3 ludicrous calls from the #avfc press officer.
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Disappointed it didn't work, I really wanted it to, but to be honest right now there would be some relief as we are having too many poor performances and results under him. I don't think he will go though.
We were not lucky against Sunderland, we had the much better chances, and their keeper made the better saves, but I agree with the above.
I have sympathy - loising a 3rd centre half just before kick off is a big blow, but the decision to bring in Tonev seems odd to me. Mainly though, he has to start winning at Villa Park, and seemingly has no clue how to do that no matter who we play. 3-5-2 and dominate midfield and free up a striker at home to a league 1 side? Nope, rigid with his 4-3-3 that has not a chance of working with Weimann way out of form and IMO talent, and there being such little to stretch the opposition.
We've been unlucky with defenders, but they aren't the reason we struggled for an hour to have a shot on target at home to a third division side. How Weimann gets picked every week is a mystery Poirot couldn't solve.
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
But we were very lucky against Sunderland, that was a race to the bottom by 2 awful teams.
We weren't very lucky against Sunderland. They were lucky we barely know how to score anymore because it could have been 5 for us. They had 1 shot on target. It isn't any consolation for today I admit.
We were much better than Sunderland - they're bottom of the league for a reason.
Sadly, that's not going to be enough for us.
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Sunderland looked rubbish, we looked solid and even fluent towards the end, we just forgot how to finish. However, today marked the two steps back which was almost inevitable.
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Journalist who reported the FAC quote thing.
Mark Regan @rego1965 1m
I regret asking the question of PL coz it resulted in my work being butchered as well as 3 ludicrous calls from the #avfc press officer.
Wasn't he banging on about it being a 'sad state of affairs' on Twitter? Maybe he shouldn't have focused on that if he regrets the fallout.
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
But we were very lucky against Sunderland, that was a race to the bottom by 2 awful teams.
We weren't very lucky against Sunderland. They were lucky we barely know how to score anymore because it could have been 5 for us. They had 1 shot on target. It isn't any consolation for today I admit.
We were much better than Sunderland - they're bottom of the league for a reason.
Sadly, that's not going to be enough for us.
Nope. Not even remotely close.
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Apart from a bag of chips from ALi Baba,s and a can of red stripe from the ofi next door, the day's enjoyment ends then. The rest of the day I am pissed off with the Villa as usual. "Oh when will things improve," he thought hopefully.
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Journalist who reported the FAC quote thing.
Mark Regan @rego1965 1m
I regret asking the question of PL coz it resulted in my work being butchered as well as 3 ludicrous calls from the #avfc press officer.
Wasn't he banging on about it being a 'sad state of affairs' on Twitter? Maybe he shouldn't have focused on that if he regrets the fallout.
He was just on wm about it. The villa press officer ranted and raved at him for 40 minutes three times.
Feel sorry for Regan, as after all isn't it a free press?
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Journalist who reported the FAC quote thing.
Mark Regan @rego1965 1m
I regret asking the question of PL coz it resulted in my work being butchered as well as 3 ludicrous calls from the #avfc press officer.
Wasn't he banging on about it being a 'sad state of affairs' on Twitter? Maybe he shouldn't have focused on that if he regrets the fallout.
He was just on wm about it. The villa press officer ranted and raved at him for 40 minutes three times.
Feel sorry for Regan, as after all isn't it a free press?
If he has quote to back up his piece, he should stand by what he says. Some you win, some you lose. Though it does show for me how under fire Villa feel they are, and I don't think they realise how little good feeling there is for them with both local and national media.
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I think the problem is obvious.
We can win when we have 25-35% possession - like Southampton and Sunderland.
Today with 65% against a team from the 3rd division who couldn't beat Walsall the other day - we just had not got a clue what to do. Apart from getting it to Albrighton who actually tried to take them on - but his crossing was poor.
Who is it that tells them what to do - Lambert, the coaches, the onfield captain - none of them have a bloody clue. Passing it between the back 4 all day will not win games.
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I desperately want us to win the F.A.Cup so I can't hide my disappointment about today's result. Lambert's still the man for me, however, and I want to see us go for players who will really push us on from next summer onwards; if we don't I'll be asking serious questions about where Lerner wants to take us with Lambert. We need a squad that can get us to challenge on all fronts and clearly we are miles away from that. I guess, as things stand, the priority is the league.
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Yet another embarrassing loss under this manager.
I didn't go today but just reading the match reports is depressing. Comes to something now when we can't even beat a league 1 team at home battling against relegation from that lead.
So we've had today, failing to beat a league 2 side over two legs and record premier league defeats all under him in 18 months. It's not very good is it?
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I think the problem is obvious.
We can win when we have 25-35% possession - like Southampton and Sunderland.
Today with 65% against a team from the 3rd division who couldn't beat Walsall the other day - we just had not got a clue what to do. Apart from getting it to Albrighton who actually tried to take them on - but his crossing was poor.
Who is it that tells them what to do - Lambert, the coaches, the onfield captain - none of them have a bloody clue. Passing it between the back 4 all day will not win games.
It's a good point. We just do not know how to open up two banks of four that sit deep. No movement, square passing, no players getting between the lines and it didn't change for 90 minutes today
I'm afraid that's not really players lacking ability, it's poor coaching and tactics.
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I think the problem is obvious.
We can win when we have 25-35% possession - like Southampton and Sunderland.
Today with 65% against a team from the 3rd division who couldn't beat Walsall the other day - we just had not got a clue what to do. Apart from getting it to Albrighton who actually tried to take them on - but his crossing was poor.
Who is it that tells them what to do - Lambert, the coaches, the onfield captain - none of them have a bloody clue. Passing it between the back 4 all day will not win games.
It's a good point. We just do not know how to open up two banks of four that sit deep. No movement, square passing, no players getting between the lines and it didn't change for 90 minutes today
I'm afraid that's not really players lacking ability, it's poor coaching and tactics.
Spot on
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Yet another embarrassing loss under this manager.
I didn't go today but just reading the match reports is depressing. Comes to something now when we can't even beat a league 1 team at home battling against relegation from that lead.
So we've had today, failing to beat a league 2 side over two legs and record premier league defeats all under him in 18 months. It's not very good is it?
Believe me we were absolutely dreadful.
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That it took us approx an hour to have a worthwhile attempt today sums up what our problems are.
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Yet another embarrassing loss under this manager.
I didn't go today but just reading the match reports is depressing. Comes to something now when we can't even beat a league 1 team at home battling against relegation from that lead.
So we've had today, failing to beat a league 2 side over two legs and record premier league defeats all under him in 18 months. It's not very good is it?
don't forget being knocked out of the FA Cup by a lower league side last season too.
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
But we were very lucky against Sunderland, that was a race to the bottom by 2 awful teams.
We weren't very lucky against Sunderland. They were lucky we barely know how to score anymore because it could have been 5 for us. They had 1 shot on target. It isn't any consolation for today I admit.
We were much better than Sunderland - they're bottom of the league for a reason.
Sadly, that's not going to be enough for us.
They had a perfectly good goal ruled out for offside and missed a couple of good chances. When they pushed on desperately we had some chances at the other end. Much better than them ? I don't think so
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Still 11th.
Anybody new would have to improve on that. Immediately. What would be the point in replacing PL if whoever came in didn't do better, and to achieve this halfway through the season as well would be asking a lot.
I was feeling quite positive about the overall progress since last season (especially since the Sunderland win seemed to end a horrible run) before the last couple of days' press onslaught.
Hoping that Villa don't throw the baby out with the bath water and that Benteke finds his scoring boots soon. He has got so close the last couple of matches. It would be even better to have Vlaar for a run of matches, and definitely to buy some confidence and experience, because our lads appear to be low on both.
It's PL's responsibility to get them back and firing rather than giving up, and he seemed to have cracked that last week. I am so angry about this result, and there's no way PL is going to dodge his duty to put it right, as there was no reason to lose today, poisonous media notwithstanding.
But we were very lucky against Sunderland, that was a race to the bottom by 2 awful teams.
We weren't very lucky against Sunderland. They were lucky we barely know how to score anymore because it could have been 5 for us. They had 1 shot on target. It isn't any consolation for today I admit.
We were much better than Sunderland - they're bottom of the league for a reason.
Sadly, that's not going to be enough for us.
They had a perfectly good goal ruled out for offside and missed a couple of good chances. When they pushed on desperately we had some chances at the other end. Much better than them ? I don't think so
it can't be a perfectly good goal if it was offside now can it? And they one shot on target. How can it be good chance if it wasn't on target? Much better than them is the opinion of numerous professionals who are neutrals, not just one eyed fans.
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We deserved to beat Sunderland on the basis of some of our play which was largely during the last 15 mins. But, we weren't ever really convincing until they were chasing the game.
Lambert has built an OK counter attacking first eleven that struggles desperately when the onus is on us to attack. See pretty much all our home games for evidence. The fact that we are awful at the back means we are constantly chasing the game which, for us, is often futile and ugly.
He's also an unlucky general (unlike MON) with injuries.
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We deserved to beat Sunderland on the basis of some of our play which was largely during the last 15 mins. But, we weren't ever really convincing until they were chasing the game.
Lambert has built an OK counter attacking first eleven that struggles desperately when the onus is on us to attack. See pretty much all our home games for evidence. The fact that we are awful at the back means we are constantly chasing the game which, for us, is often futile and ugly.
He's also an unlucky general (unlike MON) with injuries.
Yep pretty much how I saw it.
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What I can't understand is people shrugging their shoulders and saying 'who are we going to get that's better?', like we're playing boring, functional football. We play terrible, suicidal football, and tactically, Lambert doesn't have an inkling of how to make a good side.
I'm not saying get anyone, because there are clearly people unsuitable for the job. But anyone with a bit of purpose or tactical nous would surely improve us right now? I think Paulie's right - he's still here, because it costs too much to replace him. That's so sad.
Yeah but we were all saying this in the McLeish season and looking at exciting alternatives like that Norwich manager...who was it again?
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No manager should stay in his position after those last 3 home performances...pathetic!
When people ask who is better, watch that horrible hoofball, clueless inept filth & ask the question again...
Wouldn't trust him with any money this month, thus far Benteke aside he has either bought tat or players he can turd polish...not good enough!
This football is sucking all the enjoyment out of match day, we are Aston Villa & will be here long after we get rid of this rubbish...please make it sooner rather than later
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What I don't really understand is when people say 'we can't sack him, because a new manager would have to start all over again and build a new squad.' Because that would be a terrible mistake?
I think there's this idea that we're two or three seasons away from where we expect to be, and to stop now would derail that strategy. In truth, we're further away than we were at any point since possibly that infamous draw against Stoke - no quality players, no cash available to buy them from an owner no longer interested, a restless fan base, a media that despises us, a laughing stock among supporters of other teams (even those that are leagues below us) and stuck with an (at best) naive manager presiding over it all.
For me, we may as well bite the bullet and try another man at the helm. If it sets us back two or three seasons, I don't much care, as long as it can be seen we're not heading backwards again.
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What I can't understand is people shrugging their shoulders and saying 'who are we going to get that's better?', like we're playing boring, functional football. We play terrible, suicidal football, and tactically, Lambert doesn't have an inkling of how to make a good side.
I'm not saying get anyone, because there are clearly people unsuitable for the job. But anyone with a bit of purpose or tactical nous would surely improve us right now? I think Paulie's right - he's still here, because it costs too much to replace him. That's so sad.
Yeah but we were all saying this in the McLeish season and looking at exciting alternatives like that Norwich manager...who was it again?
I wasn't that enamoured with Lambert, I have to say, and I highly suspect it would be someone similar or worse if Lerner was given the chance to hire another one.
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What I don't really understand is when people say 'we can't sack him, because a new manager would have to start all over again and build a new squad.' Because that would be a terrible mistake?
I think there's this idea that we're two or three seasons away from where we expect to be, and to stop now would derail that strategy. In truth, we're further away than we were at any point since possibly that infamous draw against Stoke - no quality players, no cash available to buy them from an owner no longer interested, a restless fan base, a media that despises us, a laughing stock among supporters of other teams (even those that are leagues below us) and stuck with an (at best) naive manager presiding over it all.
For me, we may as well bite the bullet and try another man at the helm. If it sets us back two or three seasons, I don't much care, as long as it can be seen we're not heading backwards again.
It is like the usual excuse for not sacking England Managers after another failed World Cup or European Championship as there is another one just two years away.
We need someone in here with some charisma and we need it now.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
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What I don't really understand is when people say 'we can't sack him, because a new manager would have to start all over again and build a new squad.' Because that would be a terrible mistake?
I think there's this idea that we're two or three seasons away from where we expect to be, and to stop now would derail that strategy. In truth, we're further away than we were at any point since possibly that infamous draw against Stoke - no quality players, no cash available to buy them from an owner no longer interested, a restless fan base, a media that despises us, a laughing stock among supporters of other teams (even those that are leagues below us) and stuck with an (at best) naive manager presiding over it all.
For me, we may as well bite the bullet and try another man at the helm. If it sets us back two or three seasons, I don't much care, as long as it can be seen we're not heading backwards again.
It is like the usual excuse for not sacking England Managers after another failed World Cup or European Championship as there is another one just two years away.
We need someone in here with some charisma and we need it now.
Spot on dc5 - act now before it's too late .
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
He's not going to sack him, though.
Lambert has bought into the project, Lerner and Faulkner think the project is viable, and that's the problem.
Honestly, it beggars belief. What you need to do is get rid of almost every one of the high earning players. Then, you replace them with kids from the youth team, or players from the lower leagues in this country or selling leagues in Europe.
So, we have a manageable wage bill, but we also have a squad choc full of lower leagues players. It's all well and good boasting that a player only cost us 1m or 2m, but too often these are players who have demonstrated exactly why they only cost that much.
Still, they persist in this belief that, really, all you need to do is wait for these players to "bed in", for the youngsters to get a bit older, and turn into really good players.
It is absolute fucking nonsense. Paying big wages to a player is no guarantee of success, but paying low wages to a squad full of lower league players almost guarantees you'll have no success.
Look at some of the absolute dross we've been playing. Luna, FFS, Tonev, who looks utterly out of place. Why is Weimann getting played week in, week out? I just read something on the Evening Mail website where Lambert - this week - was saying Nathan Baker has been "a big player for us this season".
Really? It must be a different Nathan Baker he's thinking of, because the one I see has been fucking rubbish, week in, week out.
The whole upper echelon of the club are absolutely deluding themselves. Randy can sit in Cleveland, or New York, or wherever he is today (obviously, we know where he won't be), and tell himself that they've hit upon a master plan all he likes, but the evidence is that we are failing even to stand still, we are going backwards.
It all takes a certain arrogance - if it was really just a matter of buying kids and waiting for them to click, don't they think *everyone* would be doing this? It hasn't worked, it isn't working now, and it will not work.
I just hope that at some point very, very soon, one of them pulls his head out of the fucking sand and does something, because the whole thing is a depressing mess at the moment.
I don't give the first shit that we are 11th right now. That's not the point. Look at the gap between us and the arse end of the table, and look at where the on-field momentum suggests we are heading. We've got Arsenal and Liverpool next, two sides who play actual football. Where do we think we are going to be after that?
The whole situation is a mess, and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of the laughable disaster they've turned this club into in the last three or four years.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
He's not going to sack him, though.
Lambert has bought into the project, Lerner and Faulkner think the project is viable, and that's the problem.
Honestly, it beggars belief. What you need to do is get rid of almost every one of the high earning players. Then, you replace them with kids from the youth team, or players from the lower leagues in this country or selling leagues in Europe.
So, we have a manageable wage bill, but we also have a squad choc full of lower leagues players. It's all well and good boasting that a player only cost us 1m or 2m, but too often these are players who have demonstrated exactly why they only cost that much.
Still, they persist in this belief that, really, all you need to do is wait for these players to "bed in", for the youngsters to get a bit older, and turn into really good players.
It is absolute fucking nonsense. Paying big wages to a player is no guarantee of success, but paying low wages to a squad full of lower league players means almost guarantees you'll have no success.
Look at some of the absolute dross we've been playing. Luna, FFS, Tonev, who looks utterly out of place. Why is Weimann getting played week in, week out? I just read something on the Evening Mail website where Lambert - this week - was saying Nathan Baker has been "a big player for us this season".
Really? It must be a different Nathan Baker he's thinking of, because the one I see has been fucking rubbish, week in, week out.
The whole upper echelon of the club are absolutely deluding themselves. Randy can sit in Cleveland, or New York, or wherever he is today (obviously, we know where he won't be), and tell himself that they've hit upon a master plan all he likes, but the evidence is that we are failing even to stand still, we are going backwards.
It all takes a certain arrogance - if it was really just a matter of buying kids and waiting for them to click, don't they think *everyone* would be doing this? It hasn't work, it isn't working now, and it will not work.
I just hope that at some point very, very soon, one of them pulls his head out of the fucking sand and does something, because the whole thing is a depressing mess at the moment.
I dont give the first shit that we are 11th right now. That's not the point. Look at the gap between us and the arse end of the table, and look at where the on-field momentum suggests we are heading. We've got Arsenal and Liverpool next, two sides who play actual football. Where do we think we are going to be after that?
The whole situation is a mess, and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of the laughable disaster they've turned this club into in the last three or four years.
Best post of the season in my opinion.
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Post of 2014 already. Totally agree.
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Negative but fair. Cant argue with much of that.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
He's not going to sack him, though.
Lambert has bought into the project, Lerner and Faulkner think the project is viable, and that's the problem.
Honestly, it beggars belief. What you need to do is get rid of almost every one of the high earning players. Then, you replace them with kids from the youth team, or players from the lower leagues in this country or selling leagues in Europe.
So, we have a manageable wage bill, but we also have a squad choc full of lower leagues players. It's all well and good boasting that a player only cost us 1m or 2m, but too often these are players who have demonstrated exactly why they only cost that much.
Still, they persist in this belief that, really, all you need to do is wait for these players to "bed in", for the youngsters to get a bit older, and turn into really good players.
It is absolute fucking nonsense. Paying big wages to a player is no guarantee of success, but paying low wages to a squad full of lower league players means almost guarantees you'll have no success.
Look at some of the absolute dross we've been playing. Luna, FFS, Tonev, who looks utterly out of place. Why is Weimann getting played week in, week out? I just read something on the Evening Mail website where Lambert - this week - was saying Nathan Baker has been "a big player for us this season".
Really? It must be a different Nathan Baker he's thinking of, because the one I see has been fucking rubbish, week in, week out.
The whole upper echelon of the club are absolutely deluding themselves. Randy can sit in Cleveland, or New York, or wherever he is today (obviously, we know where he won't be), and tell himself that they've hit upon a master plan all he likes, but the evidence is that we are failing even to stand still, we are going backwards.
It all takes a certain arrogance - if it was really just a matter of buying kids and waiting for them to click, don't they think *everyone* would be doing this? It hasn't work, it isn't working now, and it will not work.
I just hope that at some point very, very soon, one of them pulls his head out of the fucking sand and does something, because the whole thing is a depressing mess at the moment.
I dont give the first shit that we are 11th right now. That's not the point. Look at the gap between us and the arse end of the table, and look at where the on-field momentum suggests we are heading. We've got Arsenal and Liverpool next, two sides who play actual football. Where do we think we are going to be after that?
The whole situation is a mess, and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of the laughable disaster they've turned this club into in the last three or four years.
Top ranting & you're right it's the sheer arrogance of it all, the 'we'll be fine' comments week in week out, will we? Really? Is that what you think this is all about, being fine?
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Hallelujah. Let us hope someone somewhere with some authority at the villa sees sense before it is too late.
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Hallelujah. Let us hope someone somewhere with some authority at the villa sees sense before it is too late.
They won't
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It's negative because we have been presented with a seemingly endless sequence of negatives.
Worst home record over *three years* of any team in and of the top five European leagues.
6 home wins in 26
Etc etc etc
I can't be bothered to list them, but the point is, no matter how much you support Lambert - and I have - as Bren said in his post earlier, it is really, really hard to accept the flow of dreadful records that Lambert has broken in his tenure and just carry on as if everything is OK.
In less than two years:
made to look absolute fucking chumps (and tactically taken to the cleaners on our own pitch) by FOURTH DIVISION Bradford City
Knocked out of the FA Cup with barely a whimper by Milwall
Played off our own park by a team *50* places below us today.
Then try looking at our midfield options four years ago, and look at them today. Look at the squad.
At the top of the club management is Randy, and below him Paul Faulkner, and the way they have mismanaged this club is staggering, into huge amounts of debt, relegation struggles, and a squad that belongs about halfway up the championship.
Enough is enough, something has got to change.
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I agree that nothing will happen at the club following today's result - doubt if Lerner I'd even aware of it yet let alone understand Villa fans love of the FAC.
However, take a look at the next four fixtures - Arsenal, Liverpool, WBA and Everton. I'm absolutely certain that we will lose heavily to all except WBA and we'll probably lose to Albion as well, albeit marginely.
Sure following that sequence of results even Lerner will be forced to act?
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It's negative because we have been presented with a seemingly endless sequence of negatives.
Worst home record over *three years* of any team in and of the top five European leagues.
6 home wins in 26
Etc etc etc
I can't be bothered to list them, but the point is, no matter how much you support Lambert - and I have - as Bren said in his post earlier, it is really, really hard to accept the flow of dreadful records that Lambert has broken in his tenure and just carry on as if everything is OK.
In less than two years:
made to look absolute fucking chumps (and tactically taken to the cleaners on our own pitch) by FOURTH DIVISION Bradford City
Knocked out of the FA Cup with barely a whimper by Milwall
Played off our own park by a team *50* places below us today.
Then try looking at our midfield options four years ago, and look at them today. Look at the squad.
At the top of the club management is Randy, and below him Paul Faulkner, and the way they have mismanaged this club is staggering, into huge amounts of debt, relegation struggles, and a squad that belongs about halfway up the championship.
Enough is enough, something has got to change.
Please stop making so much sense. It's depressing me even more.
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Paulie, you're right, but never more than when you say that nothing will change becuase the fools in charge genuinely believe this will work.
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I think the problem is obvious.
We can win when we have 25-35% possession - like Southampton and Sunderland.
Today with 65% against a team from the 3rd division who couldn't beat Walsall the other day - we just had not got a clue what to do. Apart from getting it to Albrighton who actually tried to take them on - but his crossing was poor.
Who is it that tells them what to do - Lambert, the coaches, the onfield captain - none of them have a bloody clue. Passing it between the back 4 all day will not win games.
We've been very lucky not to have been hammered by teams to have dominated possession. Man City, Swansea, Southampton, it's not through our good play, just fortune.
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After today there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that whatever the budget/project situation is Lambert isn't good enough.
We need to change manager and preferably design a new project because otherwise we will just sink slowly towards oblivion.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
He's not going to sack him, though.
Lambert has bought into the project, Lerner and Faulkner think the project is viable, and that's the problem.
Honestly, it beggars belief. What you need to do is get rid of almost every one of the high earning players. Then, you replace them with kids from the youth team, or players from the lower leagues in this country or selling leagues in Europe.
So, we have a manageable wage bill, but we also have a squad choc full of lower leagues players. It's all well and good boasting that a player only cost us 1m or 2m, but too often these are players who have demonstrated exactly why they only cost that much.
Still, they persist in this belief that, really, all you need to do is wait for these players to "bed in", for the youngsters to get a bit older, and turn into really good players.
It is absolute fucking nonsense. Paying big wages to a player is no guarantee of success, but paying low wages to a squad full of lower league players almost guarantees you'll have no success.
Look at some of the absolute dross we've been playing. Luna, FFS, Tonev, who looks utterly out of place. Why is Weimann getting played week in, week out? I just read something on the Evening Mail website where Lambert - this week - was saying Nathan Baker has been "a big player for us this season".
Really? It must be a different Nathan Baker he's thinking of, because the one I see has been fucking rubbish, week in, week out.
The whole upper echelon of the club are absolutely deluding themselves. Randy can sit in Cleveland, or New York, or wherever he is today (obviously, we know where he won't be), and tell himself that they've hit upon a master plan all he likes, but the evidence is that we are failing even to stand still, we are going backwards.
It all takes a certain arrogance - if it was really just a matter of buying kids and waiting for them to click, don't they think *everyone* would be doing this? It hasn't worked, it isn't working now, and it will not work.
I just hope that at some point very, very soon, one of them pulls his head out of the fucking sand and does something, because the whole thing is a depressing mess at the moment.
I don't give the first shit that we are 11th right now. That's not the point. Look at the gap between us and the arse end of the table, and look at where the on-field momentum suggests we are heading. We've got Arsenal and Liverpool next, two sides who play actual football. Where do we think we are going to be after that?
The whole situation is a mess, and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of the laughable disaster they've turned this club into in the last three or four years.
Thanks paulie, you've saved me the time writing what I meant to say. The "project" is a sham, it's basis consists of nothing but wishful thinking. Carry on with the project and we really are heading into the abyss. A change of plan is required and that starts with getting rid of this clown.
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The big problem is the owner and the people he has surrounded himself with. Not one of them knows anything about football, and in their ignorance and arrogance, they have neglected to appoint anybody who knows anything about football.
This is a football club, not a credit card company. Not only have they got their strategy badly wrong, but they can't see what's around the corner, when most people who know the game can see a raging, snorting locomotive coming straight at us. It's coming fast and if we want to avoid the train crash, we're going to have to change track, and bloody quick.
The really depressing thing about all this is that, even if we did sack Lambert, our board hasn't got a clue how to go about getting a suitable replacement. Lerner hasn't got the stomach for another drawn-out and humiliating appointment saga.
Lerner should either sell up to the best possible people, or secure significant outside investment and enlist a football man to take the club by the scruff of the neck. He has to wake up and stop the rot immediately.
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Paulie, you're right, but never more than when you say that nothing will change becuase the fools in charge genuinely believe this will work.
They do, and that is the scary bit.
As Bren just said, it's not a project, it is just incredibly wishful thinking.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
He's not going to sack him, though.
Lambert has bought into the project, Lerner and Faulkner think the project is viable, and that's the problem.
Honestly, it beggars belief. What you need to do is get rid of almost every one of the high earning players. Then, you replace them with kids from the youth team, or players from the lower leagues in this country or selling leagues in Europe.
So, we have a manageable wage bill, but we also have a squad choc full of lower leagues players. It's all well and good boasting that a player only cost us 1m or 2m, but too often these are players who have demonstrated exactly why they only cost that much.
Still, they persist in this belief that, really, all you need to do is wait for these players to "bed in", for the youngsters to get a bit older, and turn into really good players.
It is absolute fucking nonsense. Paying big wages to a player is no guarantee of success, but paying low wages to a squad full of lower league players means almost guarantees you'll have no success.
Look at some of the absolute dross we've been playing. Luna, FFS, Tonev, who looks utterly out of place. Why is Weimann getting played week in, week out? I just read something on the Evening Mail website where Lambert - this week - was saying Nathan Baker has been "a big player for us this season".
Really? It must be a different Nathan Baker he's thinking of, because the one I see has been fucking rubbish, week in, week out.
The whole upper echelon of the club are absolutely deluding themselves. Randy can sit in Cleveland, or New York, or wherever he is today (obviously, we know where he won't be), and tell himself that they've hit upon a master plan all he likes, but the evidence is that we are failing even to stand still, we are going backwards.
It all takes a certain arrogance - if it was really just a matter of buying kids and waiting for them to click, don't they think *everyone* would be doing this? It hasn't work, it isn't working now, and it will not work.
I just hope that at some point very, very soon, one of them pulls his head out of the fucking sand and does something, because the whole thing is a depressing mess at the moment.
I dont give the first shit that we are 11th right now. That's not the point. Look at the gap between us and the arse end of the table, and look at where the on-field momentum suggests we are heading. We've got Arsenal and Liverpool next, two sides who play actual football. Where do we think we are going to be after that?
The whole situation is a mess, and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of the laughable disaster they've turned this club into in the last three or four years.
Best post of the season in my opinion.
Yes, a superb post.
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Bloody hell. I am getting more depressed by the minute.
Can we have something to cheer about please Lerner, Lambert ? Just a little something ?
No, thought not ya feckers.
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I also don't buy into the whole argument that a new manager has to start from square one to be honest. Lambert is still at square one himself. Lambert is no better off with 18 months of his squad under him. He still doesn't know what system to play, or how to keep the football. He's been very fortunate thus far this season. The game against Sunderland we may have won, and we had more clear cut chances, but we still scraped by with an absolute gift of a goal. Off our own back we never looked particularly like scoring. Their disallowed goal could easily have been given. It's one of those 50-50 sort of calls. Sometimes it goes for you, sometimes it doesn't.
For me our squad is as poor as it's ever been. Lambert is as tactically clueless as they come. In recent weeks he's been out thought quite easily by Pulis, Hughes, the guy at Fulham and now Clough Jnr. Most of our signings aren't good enough at this level. We'll probably scrape survival thanks to the will of a few players like Delph and Gabby (who are both average), and hopefully the resurgence of Benteke, and a quality keeper, but most of the rest are piss poor to be honest.
I don't think any new manager coming in now will have much more of an uphill task than Lambert is right now. What we most definitely need is a man who is more tactically astute running the club, and with a clearer gameplan. The players look utterly lost out there. It's inexcusable. We can't play Sunderland every week. If we're talking in video game terms we're at level 1 right now and Lamberts surely on his last life.
Whether we stick with Lambert now, or get in a new man, it's level 1. I say we play this game with another person at the controller and see what they can put into motion to actually push us up the levels effectively, and not, as with this season, quite a lot of fortune among the horrific football.
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I certainly don't think a new manager would be on a hiding to nothing or couldn't improve us. I thought Crystal Palace were the worst team in the Premier League and certainties to go down, but as soon as they appointed Pulis I knew he would organise and improve them and at least give them half a chance. We have a limited squad but to say they cannot improve on performances like Boxing Day and today and play a bit better a bit more often would be wrong.
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I certainly don't think a new manager would be on a hiding to nothing or couldn't improve us. I thought Crystal Palace were the worst team in the Premier League and certainties to go down, but as soon as they appointed Pulis I knew he would organise and improve them and at least give them half a chance. We have a limited squad but to say they cannot improve on performances like Boxing Day and today and play a bit better a bit more often would be wrong.
Certainly. We're at a point where we can't perform much worse. If someone comes in and our performances improve the results aren't likely to drop.
The luck Lamberts had will also run out unless he gets some actual performances on the pitch and a bit of a game plan. Which is unlikely.
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I think the trouble is, with this being Jan 4th now, sack him and do what? We have to sign probably 4 players to be comfortable, 3 minimum really to move forward, all with experience of how to effect a game, help the side do fundamental things like keep the ball etc. If Lambert got say Hollihan, Defour and a loan forward and loan defender in the next 4 weeks, you would have to give him till the summer as recruiting someone else in January and do business would be impossible
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Just go. Now
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If we are to sack him it needs to be now with a swift appointment of a new manager having at least 3 weeks to bring in 2or 3 players .
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Just go. Now
No chance.
There is this insipid fulcrum of belief between the 3 men at the top that this will work. Unless that means there will be significant money spent during stage 2 of the project, with some newly found tactics on offer, then we are going to be disappointed.
This tactic worked at Norwich basically because everyone went there and attacked them, so it was like playing away anyway. At Villa that doesn't happen, so some sort of variation in philosophy, not just system, is needed, but just not there.
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The project might work at Amazon by bringing in lower paid workers from different countries,but it sure as fuck won't work in the world of football.Our board is on a train ride to disaster.
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He cut too many experienced players, albeit on big wages, all too quickly.
Drip drip approach would have been better.
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If we are to sack him it needs to be now with a swift appointment of a new manager having at least 3 weeks to bring in 2or 3 players .
agreed mate. But who ? That is the question. Or shall we wait and see what happens in the next few weeks ?
I really do not know at the moment, very confused about this scenario, never saw it coming at the start of the season tbh.
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If the Albion were being run the way the Villa is currently being run we'd - quite rightly - be pissing ourselves stupid. I've said it before but ever since the day O'Neill walked out and Randy had to start making big decisions for himself, the club has been a shambles.
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He cut too many experienced players, albeit on big wages, all too quickly.
Drip drip approach would have been better.
Bringing in 16 players all who had never played in this league was folly - to be honest if he was given £20m I'm not sure he would make a big difference as his tactical nous seems so poor .
The quality of football is atrocious.
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If the Albion were being run the way the Villa is currently being run we'd - quite rightly - be pissing ourselves stupid. I've said it before but ever since the day O'Neill walked out and Randy had to start making big decisions for himself, the club has been a shambles.
And O'Neill was losing it as well. It was like the coked up lunatic driving the car jumps out the window, and the kid in the passenger seat takes the wheel.
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If the Albion were being run the way the Villa is currently being run we'd - quite rightly - be pissing ourselves stupid. I've said it before but ever since the day O'Neill walked out and Randy had to start making big decisions for himself, the club has been a shambles.
To be fair Albion are a shambles. I dont think they are in any position to be laughing at anybody.
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Lambert is doing what he can with the resources available, you are barking up the wrong tree.
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Is he still in charge?
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Lambert is doing what he can with the resources available, you are barking up the wrong tree.
So does that mean that's acceptable going out to a league one side at home then?
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Lambert is doing what he can with the resources available, you are barking up the wrong tree.
So does that mean that's acceptable going out to a league one side at home then?
No, it means if you sack him you will get a worse replacement and we will continue to go out to third tier teams.
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On page 59 Pauliewalnuts just nailed it. You have just set out, in a coherent manner, what I have been too damn irritated, depressed and angry to express since the insipid defeat to Fulham.
Great post.
What a fine mess.
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Lambert is doing what he can with the resources available, you are barking up the wrong tree.
No. The players may be of low quality but they should be expected to be able to play some sort of basic football. The fact they can't string five yard passes together suggests to me they have no cohesion or tactical plan. They've been together months, and they haven't just stood still, they've regressed.
Lambert is the main problem with this squad. Either he doesn't know what he's doing, or he does and the players won't listen.
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I disagree, I think the players are playing their best, they are just not good enough at this level (with the obvious exceptions).
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I disagree, I think the players are playing their best, they are just not good enough at this level (with the obvious exceptions).
But we played a team at a lower level today, and they were still made to look second best. And a level below that with virtually the same players last January. Twice.
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Lambert is doing what he can with the resources available, you are barking up the wrong tree.
So does that mean that's acceptable going out to a league one side at home then?
No, it means if you sack him you will get a worse replacement and we will continue to go out to third tier teams.
My sister came with me today, she has not a single idea about football but she kept saying consistently throughout the game "why are they standing like statues " why don't they move" It ain't rocket science m, clearly it is to Lambert.
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I am fed up with being told that we have to stay patient as this is a project, we are a team in transition. Isn't every club a team in transition? They all buy players in the summer and often the January window, surely this means that they are in transition?
Lambert is doing what he can with the resources he has? Really? He has spent something like 35 to 40 million pounds in the transfer market, he chose those players, they are crap, nearly every one of the them, perhaps except Benteke, when he's interested, and Vlaar, and he ain't that great either! Terrible football being played by terrible players because they are coached by terrible coaches and managers.
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Judge him on his team he said, well Lambert...it's your team, your tactics, your players. It is also 6 wins in 26 at Villa Park under your management.
My message is, 'improve bloody quickly or get out.'
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Supposedly Lerner watches all of our games. How the hell can anyone have watched us this season (and for much of the last) and really believe that this 'project' is working and that Lambert is improving us, or will improve us?
Yes sometimes you have to take a step backwards to take a few steps forward, but at the moment we seem to be running backwards very quickly, and i'm sure most of us can guess where to. I just can't see any indication in what i've seen or heard from Lambert to think he can turn this around. He's obviously done well at his previous clubs, and especially Norwich, but i fear he's been found out at this level, and so many of his footballing decisions seem to point to that.
The problem is Lerner and Faulkner just don't seem to have any footballing insight or foresight either. If they've seen how dire our football has been this season then they should have a good idea that Lambert isn't up to the job and have made plans to get a good replacement in if they decide to pull the trigger. But i'm betting they haven't. Proper foresight would have been sacking him in December and getting OGS in, if they still really wanted him, rather than letting him go to Cardiff. But no, what i expect will happen is either, nothing, or we will lose badly in the next 4 games, we will be in the relegation zone and the fans will revolt, and he will be sacked in February after Lambert has spent any money available and the January transfer window is closed. I also expect that they wouldn't have anyone lined up for the role and would spend 4 weeks pissing around until making another yo yo appointment that will all leave us staggered by its inconsistency and stupidity.
Lerner and Faulkner have excelled in creating an excellent corporate brand 'Villa', they've worked on Villa Park, the pub, the training ground, our restaurant and allotment, charity work and our involvement with Acorns etc., etc. Yet where is 'brand villa' on the pitch? They've consistently let us down on the pitch in their tenure of this club as they've jerked and jolted from one type of manager to another, without any proper footballing philosophy and ethos. Well Monsieur's Lerner and Faulkner, you should be smart enough to know that all of the above is meaningless and will fail too if you don't do the business on the pitch. This is a 'football club' and without football it is nothing.
Maybe the club might be so kind as to make me a 90 minute animated video of our accounts and balance sheets, with a few shots of our restaurant and allotment for good measure, so i can watch that instead of the games when we play. As i sure as hell don't want to watch this turgid excuse for football and entertainment any more and they seem to be of more importance to the club.
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Excellent post. A brand is certainly what were are, although what we're supposed to be selling is unknown.
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I disagree, I think the players are playing their best, they are just not good enough at this level (with the obvious exceptions).
I think we've seen enough from most of these players to know that they can play a much better standard of football than they have been this season. We've seen some excellent football from a lot of these players at times, which would suggest that their downturn in form this season is more due to coaching and management than their own innate lack of skills. I'm not saying they're all world beaters, but that i think they could consistently play better than they have been if we had a good manager.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
He's not going to sack him, though.
Lambert has bought into the project, Lerner and Faulkner think the project is viable, and that's the problem.
Honestly, it beggars belief. What you need to do is get rid of almost every one of the high earning players. Then, you replace them with kids from the youth team, or players from the lower leagues in this country or selling leagues in Europe.
So, we have a manageable wage bill, but we also have a squad choc full of lower leagues players. It's all well and good boasting that a player only cost us 1m or 2m, but too often these are players who have demonstrated exactly why they only cost that much.
Still, they persist in this belief that, really, all you need to do is wait for these players to "bed in", for the youngsters to get a bit older, and turn into really good players.
It is absolute fucking nonsense. Paying big wages to a player is no guarantee of success, but paying low wages to a squad full of lower league players almost guarantees you'll have no success.
Look at some of the absolute dross we've been playing. Luna, FFS, Tonev, who looks utterly out of place. Why is Weimann getting played week in, week out? I just read something on the Evening Mail website where Lambert - this week - was saying Nathan Baker has been "a big player for us this season".
Really? It must be a different Nathan Baker he's thinking of, because the one I see has been fucking rubbish, week in, week out.
The whole upper echelon of the club are absolutely deluding themselves. Randy can sit in Cleveland, or New York, or wherever he is today (obviously, we know where he won't be), and tell himself that they've hit upon a master plan all he likes, but the evidence is that we are failing even to stand still, we are going backwards.
It all takes a certain arrogance - if it was really just a matter of buying kids and waiting for them to click, don't they think *everyone* would be doing this? It hasn't worked, it isn't working now, and it will not work.
I just hope that at some point very, very soon, one of them pulls his head out of the fucking sand and does something, because the whole thing is a depressing mess at the moment.
I don't give the first shit that we are 11th right now. That's not the point. Look at the gap between us and the arse end of the table, and look at where the on-field momentum suggests we are heading. We've got Arsenal and Liverpool next, two sides who play actual football. Where do we think we are going to be after that?
The whole situation is a mess, and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of the laughable disaster they've turned this club into in the last three or four years.
You are bang on sir, problem is people just want to blame Lambert for everything but the real problem comes from the top. Why did the fat Spanish waiter, ogs, and Martinez not take the Job? Because they knew they'd have nothing to spend and they'd be on a hiding to nothing which is why Mon walked
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Remember this lot ?
Who sold the franchise not so long ago.
Didn't he do a good ob of ruining them to ?
http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/
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Maybe Lambert is working within financial constraints, but I refuse to believe the team is this bad just because the players are from lower leagues.
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Good point about OGS. If they had really wanted himoriginally, they had a perfect opportunity to show some vision by sacking Lambert (they had every excuse a week ago) and gazumping Cardiff to take OGS to Villa.
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Randy needs to appoint a new Project Manager. I fucking hate Lambert.
Agree x 100.
I'm thoroughly sick of this shit. The embarrassments that are stacking up under his tenure are unbearable. We deserve better than this.
He's not going to sack him, though.
Lambert has bought into the project, Lerner and Faulkner think the project is viable, and that's the problem.
Honestly, it beggars belief. What you need to do is get rid of almost every one of the high earning players. Then, you replace them with kids from the youth team, or players from the lower leagues in this country or selling leagues in Europe.
So, we have a manageable wage bill, but we also have a squad choc full of lower leagues players. It's all well and good boasting that a player only cost us 1m or 2m, but too often these are players who have demonstrated exactly why they only cost that much.
Still, they persist in this belief that, really, all you need to do is wait for these players to "bed in", for the youngsters to get a bit older, and turn into really good players.
It is absolute fucking nonsense. Paying big wages to a player is no guarantee of success, but paying low wages to a squad full of lower league players almost guarantees you'll have no success.
Look at some of the absolute dross we've been playing. Luna, FFS, Tonev, who looks utterly out of place. Why is Weimann getting played week in, week out? I just read something on the Evening Mail website where Lambert - this week - was saying Nathan Baker has been "a big player for us this season".
Really? It must be a different Nathan Baker he's thinking of, because the one I see has been fucking rubbish, week in, week out.
The whole upper echelon of the club are absolutely deluding themselves. Randy can sit in Cleveland, or New York, or wherever he is today (obviously, we know where he won't be), and tell himself that they've hit upon a master plan all he likes, but the evidence is that we are failing even to stand still, we are going backwards.
It all takes a certain arrogance - if it was really just a matter of buying kids and waiting for them to click, don't they think *everyone* would be doing this? It hasn't worked, it isn't working now, and it will not work.
I just hope that at some point very, very soon, one of them pulls his head out of the fucking sand and does something, because the whole thing is a depressing mess at the moment.
I don't give the first shit that we are 11th right now. That's not the point. Look at the gap between us and the arse end of the table, and look at where the on-field momentum suggests we are heading. We've got Arsenal and Liverpool next, two sides who play actual football. Where do we think we are going to be after that?
The whole situation is a mess, and the people responsible for it should be ashamed of the laughable disaster they've turned this club into in the last three or four years.
You are bang on sir, problem is people just want to blame Lambert for everything but the real problem comes from the top. Why did the fat Spanish waiter, ogs, and Martinez not take the Job? Because they knew they'd have nothing to spend and they'd be on a hiding to nothing which is why Mon walked
It does seem like Mission Impossible. It will take a very brave man to fill the void if Lambert goes.
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Honestly I dont think they wanted OGS or Martinez. Thats why they never offered them the job. We can discuss whether they were wrong or not but I think they thought McCleish then lambert were the better candidates.
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Excellent post by the way.
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Watch this and your pain will grow even more.
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I disagree, I think the players are playing their best, they are just not good enough at this level (with the obvious exceptions).
I think we've seen enough from most of these players to know that they can play a much better standard of football than they have been this season. We've seen some excellent football from a lot of these players at times, which would suggest that their downturn in form this season is more due to coaching and management than their own innate lack of skills. I'm not saying they're all world beaters, but that i think they could consistently play better than they have been if we had a good manager.
I agree, to disagree with this means, effectively, that you think our points (remember we're 11th so we've earned a fair few of them) are down to Lambert getting the team to be more than the sum of it's parts. If you think that then you should be focused on why he's bought as he has and whether he needs someone in there to handle signings for him. Personally I think the opposite is true, I think he has a decent eye for a player but he's struggling to find the right way to use them.
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If the players brought can not compete with the likes of Bradford and Shef United then really they are as much of a waste of money as paying Beye 40k a week.Infact paying Hutton who granted is no world beater 40k a week to sit on his ass whilst both Bacuna and Lowton have been shocking is also a waste of money !
Today Shef United attacked and looked a threat we passed and passed and then lumped it in the box how in the fuck is this still happening 18months into the project.Honestly if we had more strikers on the bench today we would have been sending them all on like we did against Bradford.
When he was appointed I read about his time bringing Norwich up ,how he got coaching badges in Germany and was excited.Now seems he is MON lite.Same game plan but less funds , at least MON had the good sense when he had little cash at Leicester to put experienced heads in the team.The fact he is now talking about getting experience proves he was wrong all along !
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We've been lucky on the field and incredibly unlucky off it.
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Honestly I dont think they wanted OGS or Martinez. Thats why they never offered them the job. We can discuss whether they were wrong or not but I think they thought McCleish then lambert were the better candidates.
Which tells you what you needed to know, they wanted someone to work on a budget. Mc Shit had a lot of experience of this
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It's piss plain obvious to anyone watching what is happeningg to our club that something has to change. What are out options?
Keep calm and hope things work out with the current manager and the squad we have?
Sack the manager and hope someone else can sort the problem with out current squad?
Keep the manager and spend enough on players and wages to make us a decent Premiership club?
Sack the manager and go for a new manager and give him the money to sort us out?
The one thing that is certain is that the owner does not have a clue how to run a football club and until Randy sells to someone who does or employs someone who does we will continue on a downward spiral until we are relegated.
I really believed we had the best owner in the world and I believed in the bright future that was promised. Sadly Randy has let us all down, as soon as things got tough he fucked off just like the General did.
As a club we are on freefall lurching from one failing managerial appointment to another leading to dodging relegation season after season. Serving up shit football and giving us some of the most embarassing results in the clubs history, 2 shots on goal against a club near the bottom of the old 3rd division was todays effort.
Something needs to change and soon or the damage will take decades to fix.
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Having a lightweight inept midfield doesn't help, they can't create fuck all
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They've even made Albrighton look decent
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The one thing that is certain is that the owner does not have a clue how to run a football club and until Randy sells to someone who does or employs someone who does we will continue on a downward spiral until we are relegated.
I really believed we had the best owner in the world and I believed in the bright future that was promised. Sadly Randy has let us all down, as soon as things got tough he fucked off just like the General did.
As a club we are on freefall lurching from one failing managerial appointment to another leading to dodging relegation season after season. Serving up shit football and giving us some of the most embarassing results in the clubs history, 2 shots on goal against a club near the bottom of the old 3rd division was todays effort.
Something needs to change and soon or the damage will take decades to fix.
Excellent post Fergal. I remember the wave of optimism around Randy's takeover and your posts from that time,in particular, have always stuck with me. We all believed we had struck gold with Randy and that something which had been holding the club back had been replaced with something that would give it the space and resources to finally fulfill its potential. Randy was going to take us into the twenty-first century and we would be competing with the best.
It simply hasn't worked out that way and I think we are an awful lot closer to relegation now than we were in 2005/06, and have been the past couple of seasons. Also, Fergal's point about Randy buggering off stands up because Randy was always there, visible when things were going well. He has been less and less visible as this has got worse and worse.
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Having a lightweight inept midfield doesn't help, they can't create fuck all
When you say 'lightweight' do you mean 'physically weak' or just 'rubbish'? Because if it's the former I have to disagree, as throwing in Mr. Muscle Yacouba Sylla to clean up the mess (geddit!!??!??!) hasn't produced any better results.
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I think the problem is not that Lerner's hiding, it's that he's bored. We're an asset he has tired of but we belong to him and don't cost him enough money to get shut of these days.
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Having a lightweight inept midfield doesn't help, they can't create fuck all
When you say 'lightweight' do you mean 'physically weak' or just 'rubbish'? Because if it's the former I have to disagree, as throwing in Mr. Muscle Yacouba Sylla to clean up the mess (geddit!!??!??!) hasn't produced any better results.
I think Sylla has been woefully positioned though. He has not played in front of the back 4 when picked, he has played wider or more advanced, making little sense. He should be with Westwood, allowing Delph to go and play. Not creating a situation where Delph is the last man in the 90th minute against Palace with their striker walzing past him.
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I wonder how that tattoo looks on his leg now?
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I wonder how that tattoo looks on his leg now?
It was probably only crayon anyway... :)
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Having a lightweight inept midfield doesn't help, they can't create fuck all
When you say 'lightweight' do you mean 'physically weak' or just 'rubbish'? Because if it's the former I have to disagree, as throwing in Mr. Muscle Yacouba Sylla to clean up the mess (geddit!!??!??!) hasn't produced any better results.
I think they are physically weak, When Sylla has played he's been out of position, He's played right wing as well which is not his position, he needs to be in front of the back 4! Delph is decent but he's weak he can't even tackle he just lunges. KEA is nowhere as imposing on the game as he could be. A lot of games are lost as we just get overpowered in the middle
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Watch this and your pain will grow even more.
Notice the similarities between this video and what Lambert is saying.
Load of old shite.
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Having a lightweight inept midfield doesn't help, they can't create fuck all
When you say 'lightweight' do you mean 'physically weak' or just 'rubbish'? Because if it's the former I have to disagree, as throwing in Mr. Muscle Yacouba Sylla to clean up the mess (geddit!!??!??!) hasn't produced any better results.
I think Sylla has been woefully positioned though. He has not played in front of the back 4 when picked, he has played wider or more advanced, making little sense. He should be with Westwood, allowing Delph to go and play. Not creating a situation where Delph is the last man in the 90th minute against Palace with their striker walzing past him.
I don't think it matters what formation or what players he uses we will be crap. The players are just not good enough. What is our goal to game ratio over the season? TSM got slaughtered for that alone...
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See I disagree because if they could actually pass the ball and move off it they wouldn't need to look 'ard and big. Ozzjim and I have had this debate plenty enough, but I think we agree that the passing has to come first and it's very hard to find midfielders who are both strong and technical for less than £30m these days.
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Pftuh you are absolutely correct in one short sentence. We get overpowered in the middle, week after week, game after game.
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See I disagree because if they could actually pass the ball and move off it they wouldn't need to look 'ard and big. Ozzjim and I have had this debate plenty enough, but I think we agree that the passing has to come first and it's very hard to find midfielders who are both strong and technical for less than £30m these days.
You might need £30m midfielders to compete at the top of the league. You certainly don't need that level of player to break open a relegation threatened league 1 outfit. I've said it before, this lot players/coaching/management would struggle in the championship.
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Excellent post Fergal
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The problem isn't that the midfielders are too small or physically lightweight.
It is that they're not good enough.
I also think that with the upturn of results at the end of last season (and let's not forget, even with that upturn, we weren't safe mathematically until four days before the end of the season), we got a bit carried away and looked at the likes of Westwood, Sylla, Lowton, Weimann, and maybe thought that they were better than they actually were.
Yes, we improved enough to avoid relegation, but these are players who looked woefully out of their depth for the major part of a whole season.
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See I disagree because if they could actually pass the ball and move off it they wouldn't need to look 'ard and big. Ozzjim and I have had this debate plenty enough, but I think we agree that the passing has to come first and it's very hard to find midfielders who are both strong and technical for less than £30m these days.
You might need £30m midfielders to compete at the top of the league. You certainly don't need that level of player to break open a relegation threatened league 1 outfit. I've said it before, this lot players/coaching/management would struggle in the championship.
Again, if you're relying on physique to break open a League 1 defence then maybe you should look at your players' technique.
Edit: Paulie, correct.
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I mean Westwood, He drives me insane, Set piece wise he's the new Bannan, Overhit corners, Wasted free kicks but he's allowed to take them week in week out. Fulham away I think I nearly had a heart attack watching his shit deliveries
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I mean Westwood, He drives me insane, Set piece wise he's the new Bannan, Overhit corners, Wasted free kicks but he's allowed to take them week in week out. Fulham away I think I nearly had a heart attack watching his shit deliveries
Oddly, Bannan doesn't float corners at Palace but whips them in with menace. Maybe it's not Westwood and Bannan, maybe it's the tactic.
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It's not all about physique but it'd be nice if we could mix it up if needed without looking like getting sent off. Also technique and movement would go a long way towards winning a few games, Our players always seem afraid of the ball, they get it and they want to get rid of it, no-one has any composure
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Our set pieces in general are utter shite
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I mean Westwood, He drives me insane, Set piece wise he's the new Bannan, Overhit corners, Wasted free kicks but he's allowed to take them week in week out. Fulham away I think I nearly had a heart attack watching his shit deliveries
Has anyone found out what it is Westwood does yet?
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I mean Westwood, He drives me insane, Set piece wise he's the new Bannan, Overhit corners, Wasted free kicks but he's allowed to take them week in week out. Fulham away I think I nearly had a heart attack watching his shit deliveries
Oddly, Bannan doesn't float corners at Palace but whips them in with menace. Maybe it's not Westwood and Bannan, maybe it's the tactic.
Surely not? I bloody hope not
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It's not all about physique but it'd be nice if we could mix it up if needed without looking like getting sent off. Also technique and movement would go a long way towards winning a few games, Our players always seem afraid of the ball, they get it and they want to get rid of it, no-one has any composure
Agree with that, they look like they play bizarro netball, where you can't move if you don't have the ball. I would also like to see them, as you say, mix it up and challenge their opponents, but non-large teams do that really well. Arsenal never leave their opponents alone, and they're probably smaller than we are. I think it's a question of attitude, where they need to combine passion with a bit of sense and teamwork, backing each other up in pressing like rugby.
Edit: re the corners - it's definitely the tactic. Bannan's not floated a single corner since leaving. Westwood floats them all. There's no doubt anymore.
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It's not all about physique but it'd be nice if we could mix it up if needed without looking like getting sent off. Also technique and movement would go a long way towards winning a few games, Our players always seem afraid of the ball, they get it and they want to get rid of it, no-one has any composure
Agree with that, they look like they play bizarro netball, where you can't move if you don't have the ball. I would also like to see them, as you say, mix it up and challenge their opponents, but non-large teams do that really well. Arsenal never leave their opponents alone, and they're probably smaller than we are. I think it's a question of attitude, where they need to combine passion with a bit of sense and teamwork, backing each other up in pressing like rugby.
Edit: re the corners - it's definitely the tactic. Bannan's not floated a single corner since leaving. Westwood floats them all. There's no doubt anymore.
That alone is worthy of dismissal on the grounds of incompetence for whoever came up with the tactic.
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It's not all about physique but it'd be nice if we could mix it up if needed without looking like getting sent off. Also technique and movement would go a long way towards winning a few games, Our players always seem afraid of the ball, they get it and they want to get rid of it, no-one has any composure
Agree with that, they look like they play bizarro netball, where you can't move if you don't have the ball. I would also like to see them, as you say, mix it up and challenge their opponents, but non-large teams do that really well. Arsenal never leave their opponents alone, and they're probably smaller than we are. I think it's a question of attitude, where they need to combine passion with a bit of sense and teamwork, backing each other up in pressing like rugby.
Edit: re the corners - it's definitely the tactic. Bannan's not floated a single corner since leaving. Westwood floats them all. There's no doubt anymore.
If you want to play a pressing game you have to hunt in packs. 1 player running round does nothing, 3-4 players supporting each other and eating up the space so the man with the ball has to make a decision.
With the ball our confidence is fucked, no 2 ways about it. When we've played well in 2013 has been when the confidence was up and everyone wanted the ball, for the last couple of months they're all scared of being caught in possession or caught out of position so they hold their space and we have to go back or long. I think it's something that can and should be resolved in training but it's worrying that it hasn't been.
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Has anybody witnessed a training session at BMH these days? You used to be able to go along, is that still the case?
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Remember Newcastle away in Lambert's first season? We pressed so well that day. Where did it all go wrong from those first few games when we passed well and pressed hard?
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There were plenty of matches last season when we worked really hard to close the opposition down when we didn't have the ball.
There have been hardly any this season. Either Lambert can no longer do that, or the players don't want to listen to him, because it is really hardly the greatest of tactical innovations.
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There were plenty of matches last season when we worked really hard to close the opposition down when we didn't have the ball.
There have been hardly any this season. Either Lambert can no longer do that, or the players don't want to listen to him, because it is really hardly the greatest of tactical innovations.
We look nothing like the times we were good last season. I really believe while there may have been enthusiasm that raised some players games, there has been some kind of event of major change behind the scenes which has caused a downturn in confidence and unity.
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I've been a supporter of Lambert, but it's getting to the stage where I wouldn't be at all bothered if he got the boot.
If he signs a couple of decent players in the window, I think we could really kick on. But if he doesn't, and the football doesn't improve, then someone needs to seriously consider their position: Lambert if he's the one who can't or won't sign experience, or Lerner if he refuses to sanction the extra wages.
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Don't forget if you take out the last 10 or so games at the end of the season by and large the other 28 we were terrible, it wasn't some golden season where all the youngsters and bargains came good. We were shot, had an appalling goal difference and wiganed it at the end. This season is no surprise because he hasn't rectified the major flaws last season, namely left back, centreback, attacking and defensive mid.
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I mean Westwood, He drives me insane, Set piece wise he's the new Bannan, Overhit corners, Wasted free kicks but he's allowed to take them week in week out. Fulham away I think I nearly had a heart attack watching his shit deliveries
Has anyone found out what it is Westwood does yet?
He drives a big car, sitting on a booster seat.
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Has anybody witnessed a training session at BMH these days? You used to be able to go along, is that still the case?
Its bad enough watching the pre match warm up, some of the shooting practice is abysmal, most of them couldn't hit a barn door from 6 feet!
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Don't forget if you take out the last 10 or so games at the end of the season by and large the other 28 we were terrible, it wasn't some golden season where all the youngsters and bargains came good. We were shot, had an appalling goal difference and wiganed it at the end. This season is no surprise because he hasn't rectified the major flaws last season, namely left back, centreback, attacking and defensive mid.
There is a lot of truth in this.
Towards the end of the season, we improved a lot and put together a run, and secured safety days before the end of the season, but prior to that, we were terrible for almost the entire season. I think we look back at last season and remember the end bit, but not so much the 3/4 of the season before that.
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It wasn't until Sylla came into midfield and Vlaar returned from injury that we improved last season along with Benteke turning into a goal machine.
Now Vlaar injured again ,Benteke out of form/injured and Sylla not featuring and we are back to square one.
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Has anybody witnessed a training session at BMH these days? You used to be able to go along, is that still the case?
Yes, everybody is welcome. Ian Culverhouse brings out refreshments and asks everybody for feedback.
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If you do a custom league table from the 1st of december season (before the shitty run over christmas) we were 10th from the 24 games from there to the end of the season. That's a lot more than 10 games of being decent even if there was a time after were knocked for 6 by the Chelsea result which had a big bearing on next 4-5 games (until half time vs newcastle).
have a look (http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/custom-table)
Goals was the big thing, we scored 11 in 14 until the end of November and then 36 in 24 after that.
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There were plenty of matches last season when we worked really hard to close the opposition down when we didn't have the ball.
There have been hardly any this season. Either Lambert can no longer do that, or the players don't want to listen to him, because it is really hardly the greatest of tactical innovations.
I thought we did it and did it well in the first two games at Arsenal and Chelsea. I can't recall us coming close to it since.
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Worth reminding ourselves if this club statement from May 2012. The fact that you could replace AM's name with PL's really shows what a categoric failure his appointment has been.
Aston Villa can confirm that Alex McLeish's contract has been terminated with immediate effect.
The club has been disappointed with this season's results, performances and the general message these have sent to our fans.
The board wishes to assure supporters that we are conscious in every sense that Villa expects and deserves more and we will strive to deliver this.
Villa chairman Randy Lerner said: "We need to be clear and candid with ourselves and with supporters about what we have lacked in recent years.
"Compelling play and results that instil a sense of confidence that Villa is on the right track have been plainly absent.
"The most immediate action that we can take is to look carefully at our options in terms of bringing in a new manager who sees the club's potential and embraces our collective expectations."
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If you do a custom league table from the 1st of december season (before the shitty run over christmas) we were 10th from the 24 games from there to the end of the season. That's a lot more than 10 games of being decent even if there was a time after were knocked for 6 by the Chelsea result which had a big bearing on next 4-5 games (until half time vs newcastle).
have a look (http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/custom-table)
Goals was the big thing, we scored 11 in 14 until the end of November and then 36 in 24 after that.
I just did that, it's a good site. From December 1st before our 'bad' run we had this record to the end of the season
P24
W 7
D 7
L 10
Pts 28
However our record for the last 10 games was
P10
W5
D3
L2
Pts18
So I'd have to stand by the claim we only had a good last 10 games and the rest was shit because even between December and March our record was
P14
W 2
D4
L8
Pts 10
Last season was By and large turd with a Wigan run at the end and loads of records for badness thrown in amongst it and from it our great manager learnt almost nothing. I don't know if he is just stupid or ridiculously stubborn.
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I woke up, a new day, yet he's still here!!!
Time to leave Lambert. Most of us thought it was good to get you as our manager, but it's just not working.
Us playing well towards the end of last season is beginning to look more like it was more luck than judgment.
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I wouldn't shed a tear if he were gone but the potential replacement the monkeys at the top would choose scares me to death.
I was hoping PL would bring a culture inherited from Germany and rebuild from top to bottom. Now he maybe doing this but there is no way we would ever know - No Communication!
The scouting network is a mess judging by the quality we have brought in... I wonder if it is Lambert and his management team to blame or are his hands tied by budget? Would be great to know but I expect it is a bit of both.
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We had a good run at the tail end of last season, largely from winning must wins against teams around us. The thing was, it wasn't be any tactical master stroke. There was no great subtlety with how we started winning games. We had a front 3 hit form at the same time (including Benteke being unplayable), finally had something of a balance midfield and we counter attacked at breakneck pace.
That will only get you so far. This season teams have that "plan" well and truly scuppered. Because we're unable to play that way as effectively as we did last season (and not forgetting this was tail end of the season. We found a second wind that a few clubs didn't really have, meaning our pace murdered teams at times).
Lambert is clueless. I've never seen him, with any sort of conviction, send a side out with a really well thought out gameplan. He just pulls the chord on the players and lets them burn out their energy, hoping for the best. We've won games through sheer hard work and grit, but that only gets you so far. O Neill was a tactical wizard compared to Lambert. Even McLeish had a gameplan, as wretched as it was to watch.
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It will be a lot cheaper to give him funds to buy the midfielders we need.
He made a mistake in the summer of not increasing the quality here. He has in part been let down by some of the players who did well last season, but just haven't continued their form and worse than that, they have fallen away badly. Westwood and Sylla are examples and also Weimann who was critical to the system we were playing.
His comments to the media regarding experience etc, suggest he knows he has made a mistake and if there is any truth in the Hoolahoop and Defour stories then at least we are looking at the right sort of player to make an immediate impact.
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It will be a lot cheaper to give him funds to buy the midfielders we need.
He made a mistake in the summer of not increasing the quality here. He has in part been let down by some of the players who did well last season, but just haven't continued their form and worse than that, they have fallen away badly. Westwood and Sylla are examples and also Weimann who was critical to the system we were playing.
His comments to the media regarding experience etc, suggest he knows he has made a mistake and if there is any truth in the Hoolahoop and Defour stories then at least we are looking at the right sort of player to make an immediate impact.
It's not so much his transfer dealings that concern me as his tactics, lack of idea, lack of plan b, lack of organisation and the generally awful football being played - he may well get a couple of decent players in but will he use them correctly - I have no confidence in him anymore .
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I have seen us play well under him and be well organised before. Having more senior players than Vlaar would boost the squad and the apparent fragility of our youngsters.
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I have seen us play well under him and be well organised before. Having more senior players than Vlaar would boost the squad and the apparent fragility of our youngsters.
This is the big thing with me to
I enjoyed last season more than this season, a lot more, when others were wanting Lambert out because of our league position and defensive shitness, I argued that I could see something in this squad, I thought I could see a plan something being built
if we could just stay up I thought, things could get exciting
It's not proved to be the case,
I have not seen Sylla, Tonev have a decent game yet for Villa, I think they are both way below prem standard,
but I have seen Benteke, Westwood, Lowton, Clark, Wieman etc play some great stuff last season, so what's happened, fuck knows,
it's just turned to shit in a handbasket, but that's not always been the case
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I think after 6 moths of chopping and changing he hit on a formation and team selection that worked and confidence came with results - teams have realised how to combat that system of play in the main and he has failed to come up with a plan B.
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He never stepped it up though did he john.
We played well the end of last season, and you thought that with 2/3 additions to the 1st team, to come straight in, then we would have had a better season, but he did'nt do that did he?..His arrogance/limitations meant that he went the small fee might bes that he bought this summer.How much did he spend this summer, a couple of decent purchases, a couple of decent loans , but his choices means that we are where we are, its his fault.
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He never stepped it up though did he john.
We played well the end of last season, and you thought that with 2/3 additions to the 1st team, to come straight in, then we would have had a better season, but he did'nt do that did he?..His arrogance/limitations meant that he went the small fee might bes that he bought this summer.How much did he spend this summer, a couple of decent purchases, a couple of decent loans , but his choices means that we are where we are, its his fault.
I admit It's difficult to argue against that
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I have seen us play well under him and be well organised before. Having more senior players than Vlaar would boost the squad and the apparent fragility of our youngsters.
We have played some good games, but the vast majority we've been rubbish.
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We have played well and badly at times in games this season, with the quality of football having been quite poor, especially at home, throughout. It certainly hasn't met the heights of last season or those first two games where we should have beat Arsenal by more and beat Chelsea too.
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I am at the same point as 16 years ago with Little.
If he stays, he stays and things won't really improve.
If he goes, he can have no complaints. I don' t think he will. Besides Faulkner would get to pick his replacement - Dear God.
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I have seen us play well under him and be well organised before. Having more senior players than Vlaar would boost the squad and the apparent fragility of our youngsters.
This is the big thing with me to
I enjoyed last season more than this season, a lot more, when others were wanting Lambert out because of our league position and defensive shitness, I argued that I could see something in this squad, I thought I could see a plan something being built
if we could just stay up I thought, things could get exciting
It's not proved to be the case,
I have not seen Sylla, Tonev have a decent game yet for Villa, I think they are both way below prem standard,
but I have seen Benteke, Westwood, Lowton, Clark, Wieman etc play some great stuff last season, so what's happened, fuck knows,
it's just turned to shit in a handbasket, but that's not always been the case
It's very puzzling. We have also scored some of the best team goals for years during Lambert's time in charge. This can not be dismissed either. But after yesterday it is so hard to nail what is wrong and if it will improve at all.
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I mean Westwood, He drives me insane, Set piece wise he's the new Bannan, Overhit corners, Wasted free kicks but he's allowed to take them week in week out. Fulham away I think I nearly had a heart attack watching his shit deliveries
Oddly, Bannan doesn't float corners at Palace but whips them in with menace. Maybe it's not Westwood and Bannan, maybe it's the tactic.
I noticed this in the highlights of the Man City v Palace game. The floated, clipped corners from Westwood and Bannan have been driving me to violence for two years. And then I watch Bannan whip in some crackers for Palace which led to a couple of really good chances they should have scored from. They must be instructed to do it, unless alternatively Bannan tried it at Palace but they have a half competent coaching team who pointed out that it's shite and told him to whip them. I have no idea how Lambert, Culverhouse and co can keep allowing such simple matters to go unpunished from players. It's embarrassing.
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They don't allow them to go unpunished, they tell them to do it. Quite apart from anything else, it means we have absolutely no variety at corners - we just do the same thing every time and everyone knows how to defend against it.
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The floaty corners are, I believe, at the request of Mr. Benteke.
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BMH is now a 'closed shop' with minimal access permitted to the first team.
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BMH is now a 'closed shop' with minimal access permitted to the first team.
I've read that as the first team have minimal access to BMH which would explain a lot. -;)
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The floaty corners are, I believe, at the request of Mr. Benteke.
Since when should we allow a player to dictate a tactic? We've got other players in the middle there.
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The floaty corners are, I believe, at the request of Mr. Benteke.
On good authority? Why would any striker prefer a floated cross than one whipped in at pace? The only explanation could be that he is confident of being able to outjump any defender of equal size so a floater allows him to try and reach the ball at its highest point. As we are halfway through the season and I don't think we have scored from a corner (or looked likely to do so very often) it might, just might be time to try something else though.
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I think bentekes last goal for us was from one of those floaty corner things but as previously stated it's not a tactic that works much...talking of corners and poor tactics it drives me mad to see us defend them with all 11 back and no outlet like gabby if we clear the ball
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Yes our now departed friend on VT said Benteke liked the corners to come in like that. He did score a few last season against Reading and Sunderland and Newcastle this from them but really they are much more difficult to score from and easier to defend for the opposition.
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Also, we continued to float them in when Benteke was injured, which makes no sense.
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I suspect that because we did score a couple of goals from them last season, the team and coaching staff have decided it's definitely the way to take a corner, with no hint of variation.
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Yesterday was a new low and I would have been happy if he went. The reality is that he will be staying so we need to see who arrives this month to improve the team. Stay cool.
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Yes our now departed friend on VT said Benteke liked the corners to come in like that. He did score a few last season against Reading and Sunderland and Newcastle this from them but really they are much more difficult to score from and easier to defend for the opposition.
Departed? Has hairyhands hung up his gloves?
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Having had chance to calm down and think about things with a slightly clearer head I don't think that Lambert is a shit manager. I think he is a manager who is unable to do the job within the constraints he is working under, the inability to get quality players in with our current wage structure is not his fault. The fault lies with what happened to the club in the previous few seasons.
I think Lambert could succeed and be a good manager for us if he is given the tools to do the job. He was a good manager at Norwich and didn't become a poor manager overnight. As for his tactics and decisions I don't think it matters who you play where and because the players are just not good enough. You can see he is a man under immense pressure and any man under that kind of stress will make mistakes.
Randy needs to give him the money to sort us out short term allowing him to build for the long term or sack him and find this mythical manager who can turn us into a decent Premiership outfit on a shoestring.
As I see it we are realistically 8 or 9 players away from having a Premiership quality squad.
Randy needs to make a decision to run us like a premier club, be happy with a decent yo yo championship team or sell up and move on to his next project.
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
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even between December and March our record was
P14
W 2
D4
L8
Pts 10
Indeed, 10 points from 42 suggests a truly pisspoor run of form.
That horrible christmas wasn't just about those three games, it shattered our confidence and the run of matches in the early part of the year was desperate.
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
It's amazing he ever got a league one side all the way to the prem
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Lamberts problem too has been that he wants us playing in a certain way but he's not bought in the correct players to do that. Bacuna for example is a player I like because of his workrate, but his best attributes are physical ones, like pace and stamina. In terms of technical ability his dribbling is poor and so is his touch. He's very similar to Reo-Coker, possibly without that certain arrogance that helped Coker get so far. The only difference being that Bacuna can pull off a Beckham-esque freekick every now and again.
We've signed other midfielders who don't have very good ball control either. KEA is mediocre to say the least. Westwood is a tidy player but offers very little offensively and defensively, whilst lacking in mobility and fine close control. He's a poor mans Carrick.
Tonev is bloody awful. No touch, he can't run with the ball, his delivery is wayward 9 times out of 10. He just happens to be quick and have a powerful shot (which is useless if it misses the target most times).
Luna is an attacking Spanish fullback. You'd think he'd be brilliant with a ball at his feet, but that's not the case. Defensively too, he's awful. Sylla likewise. Great athlete, poor footballer.
Delph is far and away our best midfielder, but even he's a pretty average footballer in terms of technical ability.
If we wanted to play, like Swansea for example, we're not even close to being equipped in midfield to do so. This is down to who Lamberts buying. If we're going to take cheap punts, then we should be looking at younger players who have excellent technique. If they're not physically quite up to it, that can be more easily worked on. The problem is, I'm not sure how much better some of these signings will actually get because a lot of the base skills needed at this level, just aren't there.
Defour and Hoolahan would be a marked improvement in technique for our midfield, if we could get both. Even so, Hoolahan is only average, but that is still an improvement for us.
If he wants us playing better football, he needs to buy better footballers.
If he wants us to have a side that runs around a lot for 90 minutes, then he can carry on as he is, but that's not doing much for us.
The thing is, if you want a player who's physically able to compete at this level, WITH some footballing quality to boot, short of a lot of luck, you'll be paying a fair wedge.
But thus far, predominantly, Lambert has opted for runners over footballers and that's a large part of why we're struggling to keep the ball well, even before you factor in tactical ineptitude.
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Having had chance to calm down and think about things with a slightly clearer head I don't think that Lambert is a shit manager. I think he is a manager who is unable to do the job within the constraints he is working under, the inability to get quality players in with our current wage structure is not his fault. The fault lies with what happened to the club in the previous few seasons.
I think Lambert could succeed and be a good manager for us if he is given the tools to do the job. He was a good manager at Norwich and didn't become a poor manager overnight. As for his tactics and decisions I don't think it matters who you play where and because the players are just not good enough. You can see he is a man under immense pressure and any man under that kind of stress will make mistakes.
Randy needs to give him the money to sort us out short term allowing him to build for the long term or sack him and find this mythical manager who can turn us into a decent Premiership outfit on a shoestring.
As I see it we are realistically 8 or 9 players away from having a Premiership quality squad.
Randy needs to make a decision to run us like a premier club, be happy with a decent yo yo championship team or sell up and move on to his next project.
agreed on lerner but the side looks incredibly badly coached too.
throw ins are the cause celebres at the moment but corners, everything really is just pathetic.
lambert is having a nightmare this season imo and it all started with his antics in the summer.
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
It's amazing he ever got a league one side all the way to the prem
Norwich were a big club in league one and you'd expect them to get promotion - there have been several managers who have won promotion and then slipped down the divisions - phil brown, Owen coyle, paul Jewell, billy Davies, Ian dowie, to name a few - I thought lambert might be the right man for villa but I have seen more than enough to admit I was wrong - he will never get a club as big as villa again .
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
It's amazing he ever got a league one side all the way to the prem
Norwich were a big club in league one and you'd expect them to get promotion - there have been several managers who have won promotion and then slipped down the divisions - phil brown, Owen coyle, paul Jewell, billy Davies, Ian dowie, to name a few - I thought lambert might be the right man for villa but I have seen more than enough to admit I was wrong - he will never get a club as big as villa again .
Honestly, I see him as someone very similar to Paul Jewell. He's punching above his weight at the moment, but eventually he'll slip down. Jewell could possibly claim to have a little more about him in terms of tactical nous too.
In 2-3 years time I don't think there's a cat in hells chance Lambert will be a Premier League manager.
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Having had chance to calm down and think about things with a slightly clearer head I don't think that Lambert is a shit manager. I think he is a manager who is unable to do the job within the constraints he is working under, the inability to get quality players in with our current wage structure is not his fault. The fault lies with what happened to the club in the previous few seasons.
I think Lambert could succeed and be a good manager for us if he is given the tools to do the job. He was a good manager at Norwich and didn't become a poor manager overnight. As for his tactics and decisions I don't think it matters who you play where and because the players are just not good enough. You can see he is a man under immense pressure and any man under that kind of stress will make mistakes.
Randy needs to give him the money to sort us out short term allowing him to build for the long term or sack him and find this mythical manager who can turn us into a decent Premiership outfit on a shoestring.
As I see it we are realistically 8 or 9 players away from having a Premiership quality squad.
Randy needs to make a decision to run us like a premier club, be happy with a decent yo yo championship team or sell up and move on to his next project.
agreed on lerner but the side looks incredibly badly coached too.
throw ins are the cause celebres at the moment but corners, everything really is just pathetic.
lambert is having a nightmare this season imo and it all started with his antics in the summer.
Agreed. Randy has already given Lambert money and he's largely wasted it. A more astute owner would look for another manager before further investment.
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I have seen us play well under him and be well organised before. Having more senior players than Vlaar would boost the squad and the apparent fragility of our youngsters.
I also have seen us play well which is why I don't believe the excuse that it's the players not being good enough. Apart from the Arsenal game this season, I haven't seen us look 'organised'. Last season when we played well it was gung-ho, relying on the power and speed of our strikers. After 18 months of Lambert in charge I'm struggling to define his team's style of play. Counter-attacking is probably the closest description but that rarely works. The other description that probably sums us up best is disjointed and rushed.
What really concerns me and has since the Rotherham game is we don't get the basics right. We can't pass, can't tackle, give teams too much time on the ball, play too narrow which invites opposition wingers space and time to run at us. Set pieces are generally wasted, our midfield ignored, desperate long balls and hoofs up field seem the norm and despite having a fantastic striker we fail to play to his strengths which are numerous, making it extremely frustrating both for the player and the fans.
Our home form is the real evidence of how little we are progressing as a footballing side. That alone is enough to replace Lambert. Additionally the players are so low in confidence and there's very little chance of that changing in the near future. It's little wonder they look like "lower league or cheap, European selling league" players, they're like an young, classical orchestra playing with a thrash metal conductor. It doesn't sound good and it's very unlikely it ever will.
The vision of buying up young and promising players it a great one providing you've got somebody in charge that is a technically gifted coach to guide the players and develop them to their potential. It's obvious Lambert is not that man, like MON, he's tactically clueless. Replacing him with the right man is essential and it may mean waiting until the summer to get the right manager for the job. If it means bringing in a caretaker manager until the end of the season I'd go for it. This squad are too far gone under Lambert to make any realistic type of recovery. A huge boost of confidence is needed and a game plan the players can understand.
One thing is for certain, whichever division we are in next season, unless something changes, there won't be many renewing their season tickets, something I'm sure Paul Faulkner and Randy Lerner are fully aware of. It was a good bet with Lambert but it didn't work out. Best to cut our losses now and move on before it's too late.
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Good post Rudy
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I have seen us play well under him and be well organised before. Having more senior players than Vlaar would boost the squad and the apparent fragility of our youngsters.
I also have seen us play well which is why I don't believe the excuse that it's the players not being good enough. Apart from the Arsenal game this season, I haven't seen us look 'organised'. Last season when we played well it was gung-ho, relying on the power and speed of our strikers. After 18 months of Lambert in charge I'm struggling to define his team's style of play. Counter-attacking is probably the closest description but that rarely works. The other description that probably sums us up best is disjointed and rushed.
I think one of the problems is that we've started to believe the hype about us being such a dangerous counter attacking side. We then find ourselves happy to do that, even at home, but too often we fall back, defend, and start lumping it long in the desperate hope it'll create some sort of outlet.
You are right, we did chase and harry and make pains of ourselves at Arsenal, and we got the points. I'd also say we did the very same against Chelsea shortly after, even if we got fucked over by the referee, there was plenty to take as a positive from that match.
The problem is that since then, we just haven't played like that. Too many players taking the option to slouch around and just let things happen around them, there's no excuse for that.
Is it the players or is it the manager? Well, if it is the players, it is the manager's job to fix it, and there isn't much sign of that yet.
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
It's amazing he ever got a league one side all the way to the prem
Norwich were a big club in league one and you'd expect them to get promotion - there have been several managers who have won promotion and then slipped down the divisions - phil brown, Owen coyle, paul Jewell, billy Davies, Ian dowie, to name a few - I thought lambert might be the right man for villa but I have seen more than enough to admit I was wrong - he will never get a club as big as villa again .
Yet that's the very list of managers who we will be considering next because they will be the ones who will take any job and work within the tight financial constraints set by Randy
If you say to me sack Lambett and appoint Bielsa I'd snap your hand of,
but its not going to happen
You yourself were promoting Hoddle, last year it was Allardyce and as you say before that it was Lambert,
I never wanted Lambert I nailed my colours on to Martinez when we were appointing Houllier, you know the chap you said would be a failure at Everton
Any fool can say get rid and bring in the latest name, but in 6 months time we are saying get rid and bring in the latest name, again and again
I actually have more respect for the biggest critic on here Saunders H as at least he has always said the trouble lies at the top with Randy, until there is a change there it doesn't matter who the manager is,
I don't go along with it, but its a consistent argument which makes some sense
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He has to go - having witnessed the debacle against Bradford and his total lack of tactical nous to cope with them and now the Sheffield United result, I have to say the guy is very poor. How on earth we were convinced he was the man to take over just shows how bad things were under TSM. Would Clarke be any worse than Lambert?
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
It's amazing he ever got a league one side all the way to the prem
Norwich were a big club in league one and you'd expect them to get promotion - there have been several managers who have won promotion and then slipped down the divisions - phil brown, Owen coyle, paul Jewell, billy Davies, Ian dowie, to name a few - I thought lambert might be the right man for villa but I have seen more than enough to admit I was wrong - he will never get a club as big as villa again .
That strikes me as very unfair.
Whatever your criticisms of Lambert - and I have as many as most - it seems very unfair to lessen his previous achievements like that.
Norwich were a big club you'd expect to get promotion? Destined to float to the top, like, say, Leeds? Or Forest?
Even if you think that was the case in League One, what about the promotion to the Premier League? And finishing well within safety?
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
It's amazing he ever got a league one side all the way to the prem
Norwich were a big club in league one and you'd expect them to get promotion - there have been several managers who have won promotion and then slipped down the divisions - phil brown, Owen coyle, paul Jewell, billy Davies, Ian dowie, to name a few - I thought lambert might be the right man for villa but I have seen more than enough to admit I was wrong - he will never get a club as big as villa again .
Yet that's the very list of managers who we will be considering next because they will be the ones who will take any job and work within the tight financial constraints set by Randy
If you say to me sack Lambett and appoint Bielsa I'd snap your hand of,
but its not going to happen
You yourself were promoting Hoddle, last year it was Allardyce and as you say before that it was Lambert,
I never wanted Lambert I nailed my colours on to Martinez when we were appointing Houllier, you know the chap you said would be a failure at Everton
Any fool can say get rid and bring in the latest name, but in 6 months time we are saying get rid and bring in the latest name, again and again
I actually have more respect for the biggest critic on here Saunders H as at least he has always said the trouble lies at the top with Randy, until there is a change there it doesn't matter who the manager is,
I don't go along with it, but its a consistent argument which makes some sense
I would take Hoddle ahead of lambert without doubt, but there is nobody in this country who I see that would fit the bill - ideally I would hope that there is some manager on the continent with ability who fancies a crack at the premiership - that is down to the likes of Faulkner and the so called experts to find .
Lambert is not the man - best to cut our losses now and make a change before it's too late.
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Very true Paulie. Lambert just strikes me as yet another manager who's good at a certain level but might, at kindest, not be ready for this type of job.
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Lambert couldn't organise a football team to beat a lowly League 1 side. For me, Sheff U had us sussed very early on in the game and that has to be a worry.
It's amazing he ever got a league one side all the way to the prem
Norwich were a big club in league one and you'd expect them to get promotion - there have been several managers who have won promotion and then slipped down the divisions - phil brown, Owen coyle, paul Jewell, billy Davies, Ian dowie, to name a few - I thought lambert might be the right man for villa but I have seen more than enough to admit I was wrong - he will never get a club as big as villa again .
That strikes me as very unfair.
Whatever your criticisms of Lambert - and I have as many as most - it seems very unfair to lessen his previous achievements like that.
Norwich were a big club you'd expect to get promotion? Destined to float to the top, like, say, Leeds? Or Forest?
Even if you think that was the case in League One, what about the promotion to the Premier League? And finishing well within safety?
He did a very good job at Norwich in getting them to the premiership - getting them out of league one wasnt a huge achievement but getting to the premiership and surviving was very good, although as I said several managers have achieved the same and then slipped down the divisions.
Lamberts teams were exciting and entertaining to watch at Norwich - he does not play anything like that sort of football here - its time for him to go .
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I don't go along with the argument that its up to Randy to find someone better suited, it's not our job to speculate
Well it's not our job to sack either but there is plenty of people advising it
Ultimately it obviously will come down to Randy, but he has appointed Lambert, so if we can't think of any better candidates who would work within the system set, there is no point calling for his sacking
It's just a massive cop out
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I still support Lambert. He repeatedly said last season that we would be fine. He something in the players which came through in theway we played and we stayed up relatively comfortably in the end. But I think he's seen that the same young players are struggling this season and need some help to get them through the season, which is why he has publicly stated that we need some experience in there. We're better off then this time last season, but I think that they same team that looked battle hardened at the start of the season are nowlooking punch drunk. I fear relegation if we don't get the experienced players in, as I think, for the first time, does Lambert.
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Lambert had a certain benefit in leaving Norwich after one season in the Prem to be fair. He was never given the chance to see things fall apart. They played in their way, for better and worse. Tactically very naive, though well motivated. If teams have work out his Villa side in the second season, I think they'd have worked out his Norwich side in all honesty and he certainly would have struggled to match what he did. They might not be in the Prem at this point, who knows?
I really don't see him as a long term Prem manager. He hasn't got enough about him. I put him in that Davies, Jewell, McLeish, Warnock, Coyle etc, category. They're good enough to get their 15 minutes in the Prem, but long term, no. He's been out-thought in recent weeks by managers like Pulis and Hughes. Average but have been in and around Prem management for a fair wedge now. Pulis might play poor football but he's sides are well drilled certainly.
Actually I rate Clough Jnr more than I do Lambert. I think in a couple of years he'll get a Prem job. Whether it's his 15 minute flutter, or longer term, is another matter. But he had as well and truly sussed from the first minute.
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Teams certainly know how to play us, attack the full backs and you win at Villa Park.
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He has to go - having witnessed the debacle against Bradford and his total lack of tactical nous to cope with them and now the Sheffield United result, I have to say the guy is very poor. How on earth we were convinced he was the man to take over just shows how bad things were under TSM. Would Clarke be any worse than Lambert?
Two banks of four, keep your shape and Villa won't pass through you. If teams like Bradford and Sheff U can do it pretty comfortably, it explains why we are such a desperate side at home.
We don't move off the ball, our full backs don't overlap, no player gets between the lines, and as we get more desperate, the ball is sent longer and longer. The pattern has been the same for 18 months.
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Absolutely right nick harper. We were sat in the Trinity yesterday and it was plain to everyone watching, that Sheff U had a rigid formation that we had no way to get through. Also, we were screaming at Bacuna to go on the overlap every time Albrighton had the ball. He had acres of space to run into, but just stood back and watched. Lambert stood watching with his hands in his pockets, occasionally removing them to make the token clapping gesture.
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It's got to the point now where each day I wake up feeling like shit that he hasn't had the bullet. I felt that long before yesterday that was just another painful reminder of his complete cluelessness
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It's got to the point now where each day I wake up feeling like shit that he hasn't had the bullet.
Really?
Personally it's a scratch of the balls, a good shit, two cups of tea, maybe some toast, a chat to the missus and a walk to get the newspaper before I even think about Villa, sometimes not even that early.
Does it matter that much?
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It's got to the point now where each day I wake up feeling like shit that he hasn't had the bullet.
Really?
Personally it's a scratch of the balls, a good shit, two cups of tea, maybe some toast, a chat to the missus and a walk to get the newspaper before I even think about Villa, sometimes not even that early.
Does it matter that much?
I hate Villa losing ever. I hate the conversation that inevitably follows. But as for letting it actually affecting my health and life. Absolutely not.
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It's got to the point now where each day I wake up feeling like shit that he hasn't had the bullet.
Really?
Personally it's a scratch of the balls, a good shit, two cups of tea, maybe some toast, a chat to the missus and a walk to get the newspaper before I even think about Villa, sometimes not even that early.
Does it matter that much?
Oh no, not that "it's not really that important" thing yet again. It's getting a bit boring now, Dave.
Of course it isn't the most important thing in life, far from it, but is anyone surprised to come on a Villa forum and find people over-worrying about Villa? Some people will think about it more than you, some people less.
I have no idea of sirlordbaltimore's life, but I am going to imagine that his post above doesn't mean he is putting Villa above his children / job / personal health and wealth, either.
Personally, I don't really care too much about (my image of it) postmen and coppers chasing balls around dog-shit strewn parks in the non league, but I am not going to start expressing surprise you take such an interest in it, and see it as a different thing entirely, because I understand that different people view things differently.
It's just the way things are, no big surprise.
Your balance of importance sounds similar to mine, to be honest, I just don't get this sense of amazement people let it get to them - that's what football supporters are very frequently like.
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Wow . I really wanted to know what you do of a morning Plumbutt
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I have no idea of sirlordbaltimore's life, but I am going to imagine that his post above doesn't mean he is putting Villa above his children / job / personal health and wealth, either.
Didn't say he did, but it still surprises me that anyone really feels shit every morning because Villa still have a manager they don't like.
*Yawn* *stretch*
"Good morning darl.......oh God, Lambert's still in charge isn't he?"
Besides, I have fun picking them up on such rubbish, it amuses me.
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Wow . I really wanted to know what you do of a morning Plumbutt
Sometimes I have a wank as well.
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Wow . I really wanted to know what you do of a morning Plumbutt
Sometimes I have a wank as well.
Not while you're out getting the papers I hope.
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Milk in your tea?
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What ,to page 3 ?
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What ,to page 3 ?
Probably to the Hoolahan transfer rumours. ;)
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Milk in your tea?
It's gone sour, it smells funny.
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But when its tamworth suddenly cock's in zip and the missus is hushed.
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What ,to page 3 ?
Page 3 of the Guardian isn't usually wanking material to be honest.
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What ,to page 3 ?
Page 3 of the Guardian isn't usually wanking material to be honest.
Of a morning? Too much hustle and bustle about.
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You seen the figure on those financial returns? Phwooar.
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He has to go - having witnessed the debacle against Bradford and his total lack of tactical nous to cope with them and now the Sheffield United result, I have to say the guy is very poor. How on earth we were convinced he was the man to take over just shows how bad things were under TSM. Would Clarke be any worse than Lambert?
Two banks of four, keep your shape and Villa won't pass through you. If teams like Bradford and Sheff U can do it pretty comfortably, it explains why we are such a desperate side at home.
We don't move off the ball, our full backs don't overlap, no player gets between the lines, and as we get more desperate, the ball is sent longer and longer. The pattern has been the same for 18 months.
I am not sure it is that much about the system, we have too many players that lack basic technique. How to control the ball, weight a pass, move the ball quickly. We just have too many poor footballers in the side.
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It is coaching and style of play not the players. Westwood, Lowton, Delph, Benteke, Gabby (who looks like he could play central midfield pretty well actually), Clark, etc can all pass, trap a ball, but the movement and pressing is the key. Paulie has pointed out how little we press in a number of posts, and never in packs. When we have the ball we are then too spread, not moving and not acting as a team unit, getting into positions that the players know from the training ground people will be moving into.
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I think one of the problems is that we've started to believe the hype about us being such a dangerous counter attacking side.
I said exactly the same thing earlier in the season but now I don't even think the players believe it anymore. They look lost and void of ideas.
You are right, we did chase and harry and make pains of ourselves at Arsenal, and we got the points. I'd also say we did the very same against Chelsea shortly after, even if we got fucked over by the referee, there was plenty to take as a positive from that match.
The problem is that since then, we just haven't played like that. Too many players taking the option to slouch around and just let things happen around them, there's no excuse for that.
Is it the players or is it the manager? Well, if it is the players, it is the manager's job to fix it, and there isn't much sign of that yet.
The only player that can be accused of "slouching" is probably Benteke but like Bent with TSM, for all the service he gets he may as well not be on the pitch. A clever, tactically astute Houllier knew how to get the team to deliver for Bent, playing to his strengths. This season Lambert's team seem near clueless, hard working but still clueless. A better manager would not be making such basic mistakes with no sign what-so-ever of addressing them.
We're not half as bad as we pretend to be. The responsibility lies firmly at Lambert's door.
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It is coaching and style of play not the players. Westwood, Lowton, Delph, Benteke, Gabby (who looks like he could play central midfield pretty well actually), Clark, etc can all pass, trap a ball, but the movement and pressing is the key. Paulie has pointed out how little we press in a number of posts, and never in packs. When we have the ball we are then too spread, not moving and not acting as a team unit, getting into positions that the players know from the training ground people will be moving into.
I agree, I think the 'all the players work hard but have shit technique' comments are well wide of the mark. Basis skills go to pot, like we're seeing, when players are struggling, for form, fitness, etc. For years people slagged Delph for having a first touch like a pass, but he's had a run of playing well and being fit and those comments have largely disappeared (although it's creeping back into his game a little again now). The players have the technique to be fine, but for whatever reason they're all playing like strangers who would rather be anywhere but on the pitch, especially when we're at home. The biggest job for the manager, be it Lambert or a successor, is to work out why this is the case and fix it.
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we don't press so we don't take command of games. When you press you tend to see more of the ball and in better areas of the pitch and you create chances. It gives you confidence with the ball. In fact, it's exactly what teams do to us.
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we don't press so we don't take command of games. When you press you tend to see more of the ball and in better areas of the pitch and you create chances. It gives you confidence with the ball. In fact, it's exactly what teams do to us.
This is true and yet we did it so well against arsenal and Chelsea .
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I don't see why Lambert shouldn't be trusted with the funds to buy some better players. I've seen plenty of people claiming he's wasted the money he's spent so far, but if you look at his signings, they are by and large ok. His transfer hit/miss ratio is no better or worse than most other managers. Don't forget, he's been spending pennies on building a squad, so by necessity has been looking in the lower leagues and inferior European leagues for players under 2 million, which is absolutely sod all these days.
Those players he's spent more on look fine. Benteke, Vlaar, Kozak, Okore. Nothing wrong with any of those, surely? Lowton and Bacuna are about what you would expect for the money, decent enough. Everyone else cost peanuts. He hasn't spent more than about 7 million on anyone yet. We need a couple more players in that bracket, and I'd like to hear who he has in mind.
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It is coaching and style of play not the players. Westwood, Lowton, Delph, Benteke, Gabby (who looks like he could play central midfield pretty well actually), Clark, etc can all pass, trap a ball, but the movement and pressing is the key. Paulie has pointed out how little we press in a number of posts, and never in packs. When we have the ball we are then too spread, not moving and not acting as a team unit, getting into positions that the players know from the training ground people will be moving into.
The problem is that Baker, Tonev, Weiman cant. Check out how many times we give the ball away. It is almost impossible to get any rhythm when you just give the ball up and most times this is down to technique.
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Those players he's spent more on look fine. Benteke, Vlaar, Kozak, Okore. Nothing wrong with any of those, surely?
As an aside, i would preface this by saying I have nothing against the player and he might be brilliant, but I am interested in how people have decided Okore is a good signing when he's played so little PL football for us.
He came on at half time at Chelsea, played the whole match against Liverpool and then went off injured after 30 minutes at home to Newcastle - less than three hours of PL football for us, so how can anyone judge him as a signing?
Once again, I am not saying he's shit or a failure, I am just saying I don't see how he can be judged a good or poor signing. Which is the same reasoning I use when I read people slagging off Helenius, having seen ten minutes of him here and there.
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Fair point, of course it's only a partial judgment and we'll need to see a lot more of Okore. But I thought he looked the part immediately, despite having only just arrived, and there's just something about his demeanour. He looked somehow commanding, if that's the right word. At any rate, although we can't call him a successful signing yet, we can't call him an unsuccessful one, so Lambert - for all his faults - can't yet be accused of paying big money for duds.
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The pressing game has deteriorated massively this season. I remember Swansea at home last season, one of our most convincing wins in Lambert's tenure, with us pressing Swansea all over the pitch. O.k a lot of it was Holman running around like a headless chicken but still there was a plan and with the players on the pitch it was executed well. This season I just don't see any gameplan on the pitch, it's as bad as the McLeish season now really with the quality of the games.
Interesting point with his contract. A lot of managers sign rolling deals now, pretty sure Lambert signed a 3 year deal so this summer he'll have just 12 months left so we either offer him a new one or sack him as it won't cost a huge amount to pay him off I'd imagine.
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At the same juncture as now in McLeish's season, we also had 23 points. We'd also scored more than he have this season. It was soon after this point that we then lost Petrov, Dunne and the one man who seemed to look like scoring for us, Bent.
Like this season we seemed in a reasonable position but you can see just how quickly things can change. The worry is, that we're having way too many injuries, and we're also playing an even more horrific brand of football too.
I'm not sure Lambert's got the nous to sort this mess out with this group of players. We just have to pray we don't get anymore long term layoffs, and Benteke can find some sort of form again. If not, we're gonna be struggling come the end of the season.
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The pressing game has deteriorated massively this season. I remember Swansea at home last season, one of our most convincing wins in Lambert's tenure, with us pressing Swansea all over the pitch. O.k a lot of it was Holman running around like a headless chicken but still there was a plan and with the players on the pitch it was executed well. This season I just don't see any gameplan on the pitch, it's as bad as the McLeish season now really with the quality of the games.
Interesting point with his contract. A lot of managers sign rolling deals now, pretty sure Lambert signed a 3 year deal so this summer he'll have just 12 months left so we either offer him a new one or sack him as it won't cost a huge amount to pay him off I'd imagine.
Would probably have to pay off his backroom staff as well though .
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Where and when did he make the comment about needing to bring some experience in during January? I've seen it mentioned on here several times.
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Apologies if posted already.
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If Lambert was sacked I would not be too bothered. He has not progressed the team at all this season other than we concede less goals per game. The football is terrible and totally unimaginative.
Lambert needs to swallow his pride and learn the following:-
1. Stop buying unknowns for a pitance. 1 in 10 will work 9 in 10 wont.
2. Stop saying we will go again
3. To use the loan market
4. To buy experience which will improve the team
5. Find an identity a brand of football a formation and stick to it. We must have played 5 diff formations this season.
I am prepared to give him till the summer. If he does not learn and correct his errors he must go. The fans are turning and he needs to get a grip
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At the same juncture as now in McLeish's season, we also had 23 points. We'd also scored more than he have this season. It was soon after this point that we then lost Petrov, Dunne and the one man who seemed to look like scoring for us, Bent.
Like this season we seemed in a reasonable position but you can see just how quickly things can change. The worry is, that we're having way too many injuries, and we're also playing an even more horrific brand of football too.
I'm not sure Lambert's got the nous to sort this mess out with this group of players. We just have to pray we don't get anymore long term layoffs, and Benteke can find some sort of form again. If not, we're gonna be struggling come the end of the season.
My perception of the McLeish team around this point of the season was that they had missed loads of opportunities to take more points especially at home and this would come back to bite them if there were injuries to key players.
The feeling this time around is that we've got more points than we ought based on the performances and we've got key players coming back from injury or not yet hit their best form.
Only a small crumb of comfort I know.
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1. His record is better than 1 in 10 so I don't agree with the numbers, I also don't want him to stop with this, however it needs to be balanced with point 4 (and 3 to an extent).
2. I really couldn't care less what catch phrase he uses, I've never understood why so many people slag him off for this, what else do you want him to say?
3. As above, this ties closely with 1 and 4, to add to it though I couldn't care less whether we loan players or not, Lambert just needs to get the right players in, either as loans or permanent signings I don't really care.
4. I think Lambert is well aware of this and I think we'll see 1 or 2 more experienced players this window.
5. This is the most important thing for me. He needs to decide how he wants us to play, I don't care about formations, that should only be a starting point anyway and they are largely only really important when you're defending. How you utilise the players in whatever formation you choose is the key and that's where we falling down, fans in general have a habit of seeing the team lose and suggesting the formation is the problem but it's not that simple for me. 433/4231/451 is the standard at most clubs now (and they're all largely the same) but how you use that midfield is the key and Lambert, so far, has struggled to find a balance in there.
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I watched sky sports news for much of the day today expecting the yellow strap at the bottom to say Villa had parted company with Lambert. He's here for the season unless he chooses to walk himself, I guess we have to er, just go again. I hope for at least three signings this month and someone more exciting that Hoolihan!!
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1- nothing wrong with spreading the net and not just going for regular average bob a jobs as MON did
2- all the best and famous people have a catchy catchphrase
3- we did last window with Dawkins
4- we are looking at Samaras and Carlton Cole how much more experience do you want
5- it's Lamberts brand of total football, every player capable of playing equally well in every position
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The problem isn't that the midfielders are too small or physically lightweight.
It is that they're not good enough.
I also think that with the upturn of results at the end of last season (and let's not forget, even with that upturn, we weren't safe mathematically until four days before the end of the season), we got a bit carried away and looked at the likes of Westwood, Sylla, Lowton, Weimann, and maybe thought that they were better than they actually were.
Yes, we improved enough to avoid relegation, but these are players who looked woefully out of their depth for the major part of a whole season.
Sometimes a teams poor performance can because of an array of complex issues, but in our case it's because too many of our players are not good enough.
Tactics, formation, confidence etc. go out the window when your not up to job. I think for the last few months of last season we got a few of them going full pelt just to be competitive but that's it.
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1- nothing wrong with spreading the net and not just going for regular average bob a jobs as MON did
2- all the best and famous people have a catchy catchphrase
3- we did last window with Dawkins
4- we are looking at Samaras and Carlton Cole how much more experience do you want
5- it's Lamberts brand of total football, every player capable of playing equally well in every position
5. Good call John E. Surely the time for the rotating diamonds formation, also known as the Catenaccio Enigma Variation, has arrived.
In this set up there is a sweeper stopper at the back, then a defensive diamond of 4; a link player (generalissimo) then plays behind the attacking diamond.
The really cool thing about this setup is that both diamonds rotate in both directions so that the opposition don't have a clue what is going on or whom to mark and often break down laughing. Alan Hutton is without a doubt the man for the generalissimo role which requires a cool head and tremendous communication skills.
PL is getting there; slowly but surely.
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1- nothing wrong with spreading the net and not just going for regular average bob a jobs as MON did
2- all the best and famous people have a catchy catchphrase
3- we did last window with Dawkins
4- we are looking at Samaras and Carlton Cole how much more experience do you want
5- it's Lamberts brand of total football, every player capable of playing equally well in every position
1. Agreed, but buying any old tat is not a good alternative
2. It's not a catchy catchphrase it's fucking annoying and bland and been proved not to be true a billion times
3. This is the answer that reassures me you're probably joking
4. Ditto (Carlton Cole!)
5. Phew, now I know you were just kidding.
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It all went tits up when he ditched the track suit.
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5- it's Lamberts brand of total football, every player capable of playing equally well in every position
I'm yet to see any players have 3 good games in a row this season in their proper position, let alone a flexible system. However, i do sense a hint of sarcasm in your post....
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5....but how you use that midfield is the key and Lambert, so far, has struggled to find a balance in there.
The midfield is nowhere near good enough. Struggling to find a balance suggests to me that it only needs fine tuning, when it needs a major overhaul. If the addition of one player can do this, I would be surprised.
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5....but how you use that midfield is the key and Lambert, so far, has struggled to find a balance in there.
The midfield is nowhere near good enough. Struggling to find a balance suggests to me that it only needs fine tuning, when it needs a major overhaul. If the addition of one player can do this, I would be surprised.
I don't know, but I think Delph and Westwood are good enough, add someone who can play between them and the strikers and find space and I think we'd be in a better place. I'd like a big strong guy in there as an option as well, and I'd be happy if that was someone who covered central defence as well. On top of that I'd like to see someone who can play right across the front with a bit of trickery about them to give us something different, Gabby is very quick and uses his pace well, Benteke is big and bruising and Weimann, at his best, offers great movement, but none of them have that bit of guile to make something from nothing, which is why we've struggled to create chances at times.
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5....but how you use that midfield is the key and Lambert, so far, has struggled to find a balance in there.
The midfield is nowhere near good enough. Struggling to find a balance suggests to me that it only needs fine tuning, when it needs a major overhaul. If the addition of one player can do this, I would be surprised.
Agree 100%
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It all went tits up when he ditched the track suit.
You ever seen that shit film* 'The Tuxedo' with Jackie Chan? ... Bit like that.
*Jennifer Love Hewitt pulled me through.
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Apologies if posted already.
A very well observed and accurate impersonation, if a little too wordy.
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I wonder though if saying our players aren't good enough as a little too simplistic. Would they be better with better players around them in the squad and pushing them? Would it give them more time and confidence to get better? I wonder now if the likes of Westwood have taken a step back relative to the level they got to so quickly, and that what they need now is a little time to regroup and work their way back into form with the help of some experienced leaders at the club.
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The current set of players aren't good enough as it stands. However, two or three quality additions to help them would raise the whole team into the good enough bracket for me.
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The current set of players aren't good enough as it stands. However, two or three quality additions to help them would raise the whole team into the good enough bracket for me.
Yes and TV comment above. Just one decent player can raise the standard of the whole team.
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A bit of experience could help us no end. Albrightons been on the OS today talking about the influence Pires had on a lot of the younger players when he was here, particularly Albrighton. One thing he tried to put across as very important was not to panic on the ball.
Is anyone actually trying to influence our players in that regard on (or off) the pitch at the moment? Doesn't seem that way. I'm not going to suddenly pretend Pires was a good signing or anything. He was years past his best, but off the pitch, on, he certainly has a level of experience and respect that can be useful.
I still think we need a couple of players who've been round the block a bit. Players who also are still up to the task at this level too. I'd way up the money saved on the likes of Ireland, Hutton, Zog, Bent, all gone or going in the next 6 months, and fork out a bit of money if I were Lambert and/or Lerner.
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I think we need a signing or two just to inspire some confidence in our players. Towards the end of last season we looked like we could pass it and play decent football, but it's almost the club's culture now to play awfully - unable to pass, not sure of tactics, etc.
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I've posted before that I think people consistently under estimate how big the Villa job is at the best of times. With the mess the club has been in the last 3 - 4 years the task is enormous.
With that in mind we've been in need of someone who's got the charisma, self belief and arrogance to just take the thing by the scruff of the neck, coupled with a genuine ability to coach.
I think Houllier had it, and as much as I know he received some (quite justified at times) stick, and we would have been much healthier if he had stayed based on how he was bringing through some of the youngsters, albeit from necessity coupled with what looked like a clear and progressive playing style developing, and apparently some clear ideas of who the next through the in and out doors needed to be.
I guess that there'll always be a question mark over how much of his departure was due to ill health, and how much was due to Randy not liking the look of the transfer / wages budget over the coming years based on Houlliers plans.
Personally I think Houllier was out of the game due to health issues, it might have been convenient, but money was not the driving factor.
When we come to both McLeish and Lambert I think they're a bit too humble in their public demeanor, certainly not inspiring. Of course they might be completely different in private with the players, but then you could end up with players wondering which is the managers true opinion.
Then we come to the coaching, and here we need to understand the difference between a manager and a coach.
In real life a manager is someone who is present to ensure that employees fulfil their duties in accordance with statutory / company / technical requirements and ensure that they have the necessary resources to fulfil that function. The manager also tends to be the one with the overarching vision of how all the pieces fit together and how things should be moving forward. (The project - sorry - , team selection, tactics)
A coach on the other hand had no responsibilty for ensuring tasks are completed, but is present to improve an employees technical competency so that the employee is better able to fulfil their function, and possibly also learn new skills to enable the employee to take on new roles. (Culverhouse).
The perrfomances this year that have seen such a shocking combination of lack of basic skills and either badly thought out or poorly implemented tactics must be layed at the feet of both PL and IC Of course if Lambert is telling Culverhouse not to practice these basic skills, it all lies at his door, and should do anyway as he should be telling Culverhouse to do this if he isn't.
Before anyone jumps in with but they're professional footballers they shouln't need to, think about how many hours Beckham reportedly spent practicing his technique for free kicks, Johnny Wilkinson his penalty and conversion kicking in Rugby, or Andy Murray just hitting a tennis ball sweetly.
All of these skills are genuine use them or lose them when you're approaching what's required to compete at the highest levels and need plenty of regular pratice to keep them up to the required high standards where what you're trying to do will work at least 95 times out of 100 when the pressure is really on, otherwise you're just a gifted individual with lots of potential.
This is how I see most of our squad when I see them play at the moment. Gung ho or not, planned or lucky, they showed at the back end of last year that they were capable of so much more. We hear about how Tonev can do incredible things in training, but couldn't hit the proverbial barn door come match day.
All of which points to a group of individuals who have the potential technically, but are lacking the confidence to trust their own abilities come match day. Hence why there are so many comments about players hiding.
Sorry about the monster ramble.
I'll leave you with a quote from Michael Laudrup, who I wanted after Houllier, from just after he'd taken over at Swansea in an interview with ESPN.
"You can't ask players to do things that Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi are doing, but you can ask the easy things" he said. "Sometimes the easiest things in football, a simple pass five or eight yards, can be the most effective. That, everybody can learn"
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The current set of players aren't good enough as it stands. However, two or three quality additions to help them would raise the whole team into the good enough bracket for me.
On our current players being goodenough, Villa sides I have followed since the early 90s have always had a pretty decent spine to them with such players as: McGrath, Teale, Southgate, Ehiogu, Townsend, Staunton, Yorke and Taylor at various points in the 90s and the likes of Mellberg, Laursen, Ronny Johnsen, Gareth Barry, Solano, Angel and McCann in the pre takeover era and of course Petrov, Milner, Carew, Bouma and Luke Young in the MON years.
I just look at our squad now and it is so ordinary in comparison to anything I have seen at villa before. Sure there is potential there but there isn't that solid spine that you would usually see in a Villa side. There aren't those four or five, solid players who will give you at least a 7/10 most weeks. A 17 year old Gareth Barry was able to break onto the scene at villa because he had experienced heads around him. The same could be said for others like Hendrie, Joachim, Ehiogu and maybe even Gabby in more recent times.
I just think two or three experienced heads in the side would have made such a difference to us over the past eighteen months. Hopefully we will get them in this window.
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The current set of players aren't good enough as it stands. However, two or three quality additions to help them would raise the whole team into the good enough bracket for me.
On our current players being goodenough, Villa sides I have followed since the early 90s have always had a pretty decent spine to them with such players as: McGrath, Teale, Southgate, Ehiogu, Townsend, Staunton, Yorke and Taylor at various points in the 90s and the likes of Mellberg, Laursen, Ronny Johnsen, Gareth Barry, Solano, Angel and McCann in the pre takeover era and of course Petrov, Milner, Carew, Bouma and Luke Young in the MON years.
I just look at our squad now and it is so ordinary in comparison to anything I have seen at villa before. Sure there is potential there but there isn't that solid spine that you would usually see in a Villa side. There aren't those four or five, solid players who will give you at least a 7/10 most weeks. A 17 year old Gareth Barry was able to break onto the scene at villa because he had experienced heads around him. The same could be said for others like Hendrie, Joachim, Ehiogu and maybe even Gabby in more recent times.
I just think two or three experienced heads in the side would have made such a difference to us over the past eighteen months. Hopefully we will get them in this window.
Like the one you're currently moaning about us signing, you mean?
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I think Nobby Solano would fit perfectly in the current team. Half arsed, idle and disloyal.
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We he the last creative player we had?
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Downing.
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Downing was a traditional wide man, good deliveries, could beat a man, run with the ball etc so I know what you mean, but I'm thinking more a clever tricky player, could pick a pass, open teams up, make a difference when a team parks the bus. I remember Merson, Carbone and Solano, can't think of anyone similar since. Granted Young, Downing, Barry, Milner, Petrov etc were good players but not no. 10s, not genuine creative attacking midfielders.
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We he the last creative player we had?
Keane
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Ireland was meant to be creative wasn't he? Might not have done much but that was supposed to be his thing.
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Ireland was meant to be creative wasn't he? Might not have done much but that was supposed to be his thing.
The repercussions of that summer are still being felt today.
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The current set of players aren't good enough as it stands. However, two or three quality additions to help them would raise the whole team into the good enough bracket for me.
On our current players being goodenough, Villa sides I have followed since the early 90s have always had a pretty decent spine to them with such players as: McGrath, Teale, Southgate, Ehiogu, Townsend, Staunton, Yorke and Taylor at various points in the 90s and the likes of Mellberg, Laursen, Ronny Johnsen, Gareth Barry, Solano, Angel and McCann in the pre takeover era and of course Petrov, Milner, Carew, Bouma and Luke Young in the MON years.
I just look at our squad now and it is so ordinary in comparison to anything I have seen at villa before. Sure there is potential there but there isn't that solid spine that you would usually see in a Villa side. There aren't those four or five, solid players who will give you at least a 7/10 most weeks. A 17 year old Gareth Barry was able to break onto the scene at villa because he had experienced heads around him. The same could be said for others like Hendrie, Joachim, Ehiogu and maybe even Gabby in more recent times.
I just think two or three experienced heads in the side would have made such a difference to us over the past eighteen months. Hopefully we will get them in this window.
Like the one you're currently moaning about us signing, you mean?
Maybe he doesn't want just any experienced players, perhaps he has other criteria as well, that would be reasonable.
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One thing I would like to see Lambert do is give Helenius more of a chance for the remainder of the season. He's definitely a better option than Bowery.
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One thing I would like to see Lambert do is give Helenius more of a chance for the remainder of the season. He's definitely a better option than Bowery.
I think Helenius will do well for us in a couple of years, he's got great feet.
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Sack the fool, please sack him now
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One thing I would like to see Lambert do is give Helenius more of a chance for the remainder of the season. He's definitely a better option than Bowery.
I think Helenius will do well for us in a couple of years, he's got great feet.
I think Helenius needs to fill out a bit for him to get a proper run in the side. That or just learn how to use his size like Crouch does. Crouch took a few years to properly mature.
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I would hate us to sack Lambert now or at any point this season. The continual upheaval of managers has hardly done us any good and I think we show glimpses of putting a good run together. Performances and results haven't gone our way for the last few weeks, but the new(ish) culture in football of sacking managers left, right and centre as soon as things go slightly wrong is boring and is akin to having a tantrum on Christmas day because you didn't get the Buzz Lightyear toy you wanted.
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Is he still here ?
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One thing that has crossed my mind is whether Lambert has changed the roles he and Culverhouse successfully had at Norwich. At the time Lambert was appointed the Norwich fans were pointing at Culverhouse being the footballing brains to the extent most were willing to lose Lambert but not Culverhouse. Whilst not knowing what goes on at Bodymoor Heath, on match days all I see is Lambert directing the confusion and Culverhouse sitting on his hands in silence.
We were told that we were getting a great coach but based on the disjointed and confused displays from our players, I'm wondering if Lambert is more involved in the tactics and coaching. Maybe those that sit near the dug out can confirm?
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The current set of players aren't good enough as it stands. However, two or three quality additions to help them would raise the whole team into the good enough bracket for me.
On our current players being goodenough, Villa sides I have followed since the early 90s have always had a pretty decent spine to them with such players as: McGrath, Teale, Southgate, Ehiogu, Townsend, Staunton, Yorke and Taylor at various points in the 90s and the likes of Mellberg, Laursen, Ronny Johnsen, Gareth Barry, Solano, Angel and McCann in the pre takeover era and of course Petrov, Milner, Carew, Bouma and Luke Young in the MON years.
I just look at our squad now and it is so ordinary in comparison to anything I have seen at villa before. Sure there is potential there but there isn't that solid spine that you would usually see in a Villa side. There aren't those four or five, solid players who will give you at least a 7/10 most weeks. A 17 year old Gareth Barry was able to break onto the scene at villa because he had experienced heads around him. The same could be said for others like Hendrie, Joachim, Ehiogu and maybe even Gabby in more recent times.
I just think two or three experienced heads in the side would have made such a difference to us over the past eighteen months. Hopefully we will get them in this window.
Like the one you're currently moaning about us signing, you mean?
Maybe he doesn't want just any experienced players, perhaps he has other criteria as well, that would be reasonable.
Only saw this now. I don't want to be tagged a 'moaner' and I have always been a poster who tried not to be dogmatic one way or the other and I do respond and change my opinion if I see really good arguments and signs on the pitch or in the boardroom.
I was hoping for better quality than Holt and Hoolahan yes. Hoolahan is decent but I'd always hope for better than somebody who is struggling to get in the Norwich side. As for Holt, in your latest press-ing piece you didn't sound to keen either. Still, if he does the business I will happily eat humble pie as it will mean Villa having a better season than things have been looking since we went on our awful run of form against teams in the lower half/out of form (Yanited).
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The current set of players aren't good enough as it stands. However, two or three quality additions to help them would raise the whole team into the good enough bracket for me.
On our current players being goodenough, Villa sides I have followed since the early 90s have always had a pretty decent spine to them with such players as: McGrath, Teale, Southgate, Ehiogu, Townsend, Staunton, Yorke and Taylor at various points in the 90s and the likes of Mellberg, Laursen, Ronny Johnsen, Gareth Barry, Solano, Angel and McCann in the pre takeover era and of course Petrov, Milner, Carew, Bouma and Luke Young in the MON years.
I just look at our squad now and it is so ordinary in comparison to anything I have seen at villa before. Sure there is potential there but there isn't that solid spine that you would usually see in a Villa side. There aren't those four or five, solid players who will give you at least a 7/10 most weeks. A 17 year old Gareth Barry was able to break onto the scene at villa because he had experienced heads around him. The same could be said for others like Hendrie, Joachim, Ehiogu and maybe even Gabby in more recent times.
I just think two or three experienced heads in the side would have made such a difference to us over the past eighteen months. Hopefully we will get them in this window.
Like the one you're currently moaning about us signing, you mean?
Maybe he doesn't want just any experienced players, perhaps he has other criteria as well, that would be reasonable.
Only saw this now. I don't want to be tagged a 'moaner' and I have always been a poster who tried not to be dogmatic one way or the other and I do respond and change my opinion if I see really good arguments and signs on the pitch or in the boardroom.
I was hoping for better quality than Holt and Hoolahan yes. Hoolahan is decent but I'd always hope for better than somebody who is struggling to get in the Norwich side. As for Holt, in your latest press-ing piece you didn't sound to keen either. Still, if he does the business I will happily eat humble pie as it will mean Villa having a better season than things have been looking since we went on our awful run of form against teams in the lower half/out of form (Yanited).
I wasn't talking about Holt in the original reply. Hoolahan fitted the bill you were mentioning perfectly.
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I am hoping that the second half against Arsenal was our Newcastle moment and we play with as much belief for the rest of the season. At HT yesterday I was waving the white flag. The second half was very encouraging.
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It's difficult to see what coaching is involved using Guzan to meteorite the ball up to Benteke. Our goal came from a good cross, not a counter attack, which is all we're capable of so we're told. So we succeed in getting a goal from that route why not persevere with it with 15 odd minutes left on the clock? It didn't make sense. I can understand hoof with a few minutes remaining but not with the amount of time we had. That hoof tactic has to have been under Lambert's instruction.
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That hoof tactic has to have been under Lambert's instruction.
It's not as if Benteke was having any success with it. I thought the Arsenal centrebacks dealt with it extremely well.
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Irish Mirrror (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9118312/aston-villa-chief-executive-paul-faulkner-admits-january-transfer-window-is-tough)
As the Aston Villa doom mongers come out again, is it time for a reality check at Villa Park?
The natives are restless again at Villa Park, but is it fair to have great expectations this season, asks James Nursey?
The Villa Park doom-mongers were out in force again this week.
One caller to talkSport claimed "95 per cent of Villa fans want boss Paul Lambert sacked" despite his side nearly snatching a point with a late rally in a 2-1 home loss to Arsenal.
Tensions are running high again after six defeats in eight games , including an FA Cup reverse at home to League One Sheffield United.
But chief executive Paul Faulkner spoke out this week to give his backing to Lambert and explain why.
And while his view is at odds with some fans, surely the - silent ? - more objective supporters can appreciate Faulkner is talking sense and the side are indeed making "definite, clear progress" - albeit gradually.
Fans can continue to boo and moan all they want - that is their prerogative and I can well imagine Villa's wretched home form must make ardent supporters despair.
Faulkner admitting losing to Sheffield United was a "bitter blow" but insisted Villa are doing everything in their power to rectify their home form.
And it is quite clear owner Randy Lerner and Faulkner are not about to sack Lambert as the club chief executive stressed the importance of "stability and continuity".
The same caller demanding Lambert out claimed Villa should be matching Everton in ambitions.
But Everton only had one manager for 13 years when David Moyes was there building a club and Roberto Martinez has come in and made some shrewd changes and additions to improve on solid foundations.
Villa by contrast have had seven managers in that period and Lambert really does deserve more time since arriving in June 2012 - when it must be remembered many fans clamoured for his appointment.
Villa are 11th with 23 points - five points above the relegation zone - and it simply does not merit a p45 as I told talkSport on Monday night when they asked me on.
It constitutes progress given the side finished 15th last season and 16th the season before that.
They have six clean sheets already which is more than last season and the team are yet to be given a hiding in the League this season.
But it is not enough for some fans who clearly believe Villa should be achieving more despite the limitations of their current spending power.
So I think the debate really needs to be where should Villa realistically be given their size, spending and history?
They have a fine, rich history which makes the club and their fans rightly proud.
But I've averaged out Villa's top-flight finishes since the Premier League started in 1992/1993 and it's 8.6 or basically ninth, which is currently occupied by Southampton.
Faulkner said the club's ambition is to continue rebuilding to get the side regularly competing in the top half of the table.
Realistically now Lerner has closed his open cheque-book and is making the club self-financing, the days of regularly coming sixth and being in Europe are over.
But fans cannot blame the American for limiting his spending after already putting in around £200million into the club.
Even without huge investment, Villa could yet end up ninth this season and I expect they will finish between there and 12th which would be a respectable campaign.
Saints will probably be going into reverse now given their off-the-field problems over Nicola Cortese's exit.
And Christian Benteke's return to goal-scoring form and confidence against Arsenal will certainly help.
Of course you can never be complacent about relegation as the table is so tight.
But I honestly think Villa are where they can realistically expect to be given their budget and are doing OK and will not go down.
Fans have also moaned about the often direct style of football and some of Lambert's signings not cutting it yet in the Premier League.
There are groans in the press box as well as the stands every time Aleksandar Tonev finds row Z with another of his ambitious long-range efforts.
But the club's reduced spending power, both in terms of fees and wages, means Villa are no longer shopping at Waitrose for expensive proven Premier League talents like Ashley Young and James Milner.
Instead Lambert is taking a gamble on cheaper players - some of which will come off (Benteke etc) and some of which won't (Joe Bennett etc).
But his decision to bring Brad Guzan back has worked out superbly and Benteke, Ashley Westwood, Matt Lowton, Ron Vlaar, Jed Steer and Jores Okore all look good buys to me.
I realise the signing of Grant Holt is hardly a name to set pulse races at Villa Park.
But it's a shrewd, value-for-money initial short-term deal to cover for the injured Libor Kozak.
It is a far cry from Darren Bent's arrival for £24million three years ago, which says everything about the club's changing budget.
But Holt will do a job on and off the pitch, where he is a big character in the dressing room.
Expect him to win plenty of free-kicks (he was previously among the most fouled players in the Premier League) and contribute the odd vital goal.
He actually scored in his last three Premier League games for Norwich before he was sold to Championship Wigan.
I think he could have stayed at the Canaries and helped them.
But he wanted to move nearer his family who live in Cumbria and was frustrated with Chris Hughton's 4-5-1 tactics.
I don't know why it went sour for Holt at Wigan but now he has been reunited with his former Norwich boss Lambert, he'll be useful.
His arrival should at the very least keep Benteke on his toes and if Holt clicks, could be an inspired signing to help earn perhaps six-eight extra points which could propel Villa into the top half and produce even clearer progress.
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Again, a fairly astonishing case of aiming for the point and not even getting close. I know that midtable is the best we can do this season. It's not a brilliant time for the club in terms of the money available and the strength (and just quantity) of rivals for the top positions, so I'm fine with us not competing that much at the moment.
The problem is the sense of hopelessness, and this is because of the style of football on offer at VP. So we're not going to win the league, we know this - then what precisely is the point of us if we're also going to be unfathomably boring? It's not just that we're annoyed at results, it's that the team is so supine and devoid of skill or invention, so unable to do anything entertaining and just so monotonously bog-standard.
We can cope with not challenging for the top four positions, it's the tough truth of football and that's all there is. However, there really is no need to go about being so middling in such a nihilistically stodgy. It starts to feel a little pointless, and therein lies the frustration.
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The problem is the sense of hopelessness, and this is because of the style of football on offer at VP. So we're not going to win the league, we know this - then what precisely is the point of us if we're also going to be unfathomably boring?
I'm hoping that the signing of the "No. 10" Lambert admits we need will improve things here.
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The problem is the sense of hopelessness, and this is because of the style of football on offer at VP. So we're not going to win the league, we know this - then what precisely is the point of us if we're also going to be unfathomably boring?
I'm hoping that the signing of the "No. 10" Lambert admits we need will improve things here.
See the Grant Holt thread for more details, but I think that there's only so much a number 10 can do if the ball keeps flying over his head.
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I think the No 10 will be for the times we've seen plenty of this season where the midfield puts a string of sideways passes to each other before giving the ball back to the keeper because the opposition have packed their defence. Something we've often seen at home. The keeper then hoofs it. If there is a midfielder that can create something in those moments then there will hopefully be less flying over of the heads.
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That's my argument though. If that's what we were doing, like Swansea, then the extra edge would solve all our problems. However, the real problem is that nobody moves on the pitch at all and that, far from having lots of inconsequential possession, we have the second-lowest possession average in the league. One player can't change that.
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No, but one player can raise the quality and confidence of the others. Matt Lowton, Ashley Westwood and Fabian Delph are not hoofers. Besides which you can only raise the quality of a side one player at a time. So every step in the right direction is a step in the right direction.
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No, but one player can raise the quality and confidence of the others. Matt Lowton, Ashley Westwood and Fabian Delph are not hoofers. Besides which you can only raise the quality of a side one player at a time. So every step in the right direction is a step in the right direction.
Yep that's fair enough, but it seems to me a little like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. There is not a passing mentality in the side, and they have to do it as a team and completely as a team. They're not used to moving off the ball and they don't look like they practice it much. I really, really want to believe that Lambert is the man to bring these players together and get them passing and moving but, frankly, after 18 months of him getting his players to play his football, that particular aspect is just getting worse and worse.
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I've thought a few times this season about the level of expectations. The standard view on here seems to be that people are aware that mid-table is the best to hope for and that there will be ups and downs while we try to build something. Possibly a cup run, well, never mind. But on the league position everyone seems to broadly agree that 8th-12th will be job done this season.
What we are actually seeing is a marginal improvement in results, home form that would see us relegated, away form that would see us in the CL but the over-riding feeling is one of pessimism. This is mainly because for the majority of the season we have looked an incredibly poor team. I've only been a few times this season and I watch when we're on TV so haven't seen that many games but I certainly haven't seen us play well. In fact the last match I attended in person was Swansea at home which despite not losing was perhaps one of the most uninspiring and depressing performances I've seen. Enough to put me off going since.
Anyway, the point I want to raise is that given we all seem to accept we're an 8th-12th team is it really realistic to expect us to be any good? I know there's a lot of the season to go and things can get worse, they could also get better of course, but right now we're hitting the expected target of most people on the site (cup runs aside) Maybe it's the case that teams who finish 8th-12th in the table are crap and that's what we're seeing. Last season 8-12 was taken up in order by West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Norwich, Fulham. Were any of these teams last season actually any better than we are now? Surely the fact that a team finishes halfway down a league table signifies that they're not very good? Can we really expect the fight, spirit, competency that people want to see without actually being a significantly better team and therefore in line to finish much higher in the table which we accept we can't achieve? It's a depressing prospect but if what we are is a mid table team then what we're seeing is how a mid table team play. Shit, isn't it?
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Anyway, the point I want to raise is that given we all seem to accept we're an 8th-12th team is it really realistic to expect us to be any good? I know there's a lot of the season to go and things can get worse, they could also get better of course, but right now we're hitting the expected target of most people on the site (cup runs aside) Maybe it's the case that teams who finish 8th-12th in the table are crap and that's what we're seeing.
Last season 8-12 was taken up in order by West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Norwich, Fulham. Were any of these teams last season actually any better than we are now? Surely the fact that a team finishes halfway down a league table signifies that they're not very good? Can we really expect the fight, spirit, competency that people want to see without actually being a significantly better team and therefore in line to finish much higher in the table which we accept we can't achieve? It's a depressing prospect but if what we are is a mid table team then what we're seeing is how a mid table team play. Shit, isn't it?
Well it depends on what you mean by good? There isn't always a correlation between 'good football' and 'good results'. There are teams that have finished below us or around us playing much better football, but that obviously hasn't translated into results. I think we've been unlucky at Villa as supporters that we've rarely had both good football and good results. Under Mon we had good results, but the football was for the most part pretty poor (IMO), since then we've had poor football and poor results.
I think the frustration then at the moment is that after some very poor results last season, at least our football at times was looking up, and we played some exciting and good football, albeit still far too reliant on counter attacking. This season then people were hoping/expecting for relative mid-table mediocrity in terms of results, but that our performances would be getting better. We have however seen some of the most dismal performances ever even if the results are ever so slightly better than the mediocrity we served up for the majority of last season.
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By Robbie Savage | 16/01/14
What I’m about to say won't go down well with Aston Villa fans but, after watching yet another home defeat, against Arsenal on Monday, I fear Paul Lambert is running out of excuses about his team being young and inexperienced.
As a manager, I have the highest regard for Lambert. He worked miracles at Norwich and I like his energy on the touchline. The man is a class act.
He will be aware, though, of the growing anxiety among Villa supporters on phone-in lines and forums, who are increasingly fed up with his stock line about a young side still maturing.
Yes, it was unfortunate that Lambert had to change his formation when Nathan Baker was carried off with concussion, but there was enough experience on that pitch for Villa to give anybody a game.
Ron Vlaar, who defended well, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Karim El-Ahmadi and Brad Guzan have all got miles on the clock.
Villa fans don’t want to hear how young their team is any more – they want to hear how good they are.
In all honesty, Villa barely laid a glove on Arsenal. They had a real go in the last 15 minutes, after Christian Benteke pulled it back to 2-1, but they didn’t really create anything.
Lambert reckons they played well in the second half, but if that had been Stoke pumping long balls into the box, they would have been slaughtered for being so direct.
My biggest worry about Villa is their lack of creativity in midfield.
Ashley Westwood is neat and keeps the ball well, but Fabian Delph – who deserved an England call-up last year – has been hit-and-miss this season. I fear international recognition has passed him by.
And El-Ahmadi is busy, but there is little sign of him playing a killer pass and that lack of invention is worrying. I’m not sure that bringing Grant Holt in on loan from Wigan is necessarily the answer.
Obviously, Lambert got the best out of Holt when they worked together at Norwich, and I’m a big fan of players who work their way up through the leagues - as Holt did, from being a tyre-fitter in Workington to a Premier League striker.
But his arrival suggests Villa’s style will probably go even more direct – and it’s a leap of faith for Lambert to pin his hopes on a striker who has scored twice in the Championship this season and whose last goal was in August.
The way things are going in this transfer window, if Holt can get a move to Villa, then I could sign for Real Madrid before the end of January!
Seriously, though, it’s a great opportunity for Holt and I don’t blame him one moment for hooking up with Lambert again.
But, last season, I tipped Villa to go down and had to take mountainous portions of humble pie when they proved me wrong and finished five points clear of trouble.
This time, it could work the other way – after tipping them to be comfortable in mid-table, they could go down.
One way or another, they are bang in the middle of a relegation dogfight.
Villa’s home record – seven defeats and only eight goals in 11 games – is shocking, especially when you throw in the FA Cup third-round shock against Sheffield United.
For such a great club, with its tradition, fan base and heritage, Villa should be competing with Everton, Newcastle and Spurs for a place in Europe, or aiming for a top-half finish at the least.
It gives me no pleasure to see them struggling, but, sooner or later, Lambert will have to dispense with the excuses and deal with the facts.
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Well, he aint wrong, but its nothing we haven't heard before (or figured out for ourselves)
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Are we bang in the middle of a relegation fight? We kind of look on the periphery to me.
And no post on Savage should let slip the opportunity to call him an irksome Bluenose c***.
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I saw the author of the article and couldn't be bothered to read it to be honest.
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It's a sad day when Lily Savage writes a piece on your club which you can't but help to agree with. Spot on
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Are we bang in the middle of a relegation fight? We kind of look on the periphery to me.
Well i'd say that any club that is within 2 games (5-6 points) of dropping into a relegation spot is in danger of relegation. At the moment there are 5 points separating 10th from 20th, 6 points separating 10th from 18th, so all of those clubs are in the mix for relegation. At the moment it doesn't look like anyone is going to pull away from that group or that the bottom 3 are going to become isolated so i think it's going to be tight for a lot of clubs near the end of the season.
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I instinctively disagree with anything Savage says, if he said it was Friday I'd argue it was only Friday in our time zone, if he said he was a twat I'd argue that that was only his opinion and most people would actually say he was a fucking twat.
I hate the ****** and he can go and fucking swivel on his opinion of our club.
Fuck off Savage.
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Are we bang in the middle of a relegation fight? We kind of look on the periphery to me.
Well i'd say that any club that is within 2 games (5-6 points) of dropping into a relegation spot is in danger of relegation. At the moment there are 5 points separating 10th from 20th, 6 points separating 10th from 18th, so all of those clubs are in the mix for relegation. At the moment it doesn't look like anyone is going to pull away from that group or that the bottom 3 are going to become isolated so i think it's going to be tight for a lot of clubs near the end of the season.
We could drawn into it, but there is no way we're bang in the middle of a relegation fight at this point.
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I don't care what Savage has got to say. I don't even care if he's saying the same thing as me.
My problem isn't so much with whatever it is he says at any one time (his comments on the minute by minute thing on the BBC coverage of the Arsenal game were bizarre, swinging from one extreme to the next within minutes), the problem i have is that they come from the mouth of that ridiculous ****** bubble.
Which makes them null and void.
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Are we bang in the middle of a relegation fight? We kind of look on the periphery to me.
Well i'd say that any club that is within 2 games (5-6 points) of dropping into a relegation spot is in danger of relegation. At the moment there are 5 points separating 10th from 20th, 6 points separating 10th from 18th, so all of those clubs are in the mix for relegation. At the moment it doesn't look like anyone is going to pull away from that group or that the bottom 3 are going to become isolated so i think it's going to be tight for a lot of clubs near the end of the season.
We could drawn into it, but there is no way we're bang in the middle of a relegation fight at this point.
Indeed.
I am worried we'll get dragged into one, but fuck me, how on earth can we be bang in the middle of one when we're pretty much in the middle of the table?
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Are we bang in the middle of a relegation fight? We kind of look on the periphery to me.
Well i'd say that any club that is within 2 games (5-6 points) of dropping into a relegation spot is in danger of relegation. At the moment there are 5 points separating 10th from 20th, 6 points separating 10th from 18th, so all of those clubs are in the mix for relegation. At the moment it doesn't look like anyone is going to pull away from that group or that the bottom 3 are going to become isolated so i think it's going to be tight for a lot of clubs near the end of the season.
We could drawn into it, but there is no way we're bang in the middle of a relegation fight at this point.
Indeed.
I am worried we'll get dragged into one, but fuck me, how on earth can we be bang in the middle of one when we're pretty much in the middle of the table?
best league in the world sure ;D
benteke's goal v arsenal has me resting a little easier re relegation this season. think he will kick on now and score enough to keep us in the division. bertrand can only be a big improvement at left back.
but injuries to vlaar and benteke in particular will drag us back into it again.
ive lost faith with lambert a while back. we play the worst football in the division and that to me is unacceptable.
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The only thing worse than having to read something by that spunk trumpet savage is admitting he's right.
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Not right today.
Or yesterday.
Heh heh heh.
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We look a team that finish 9 or 10th which is progress
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Are we bang in the middle of a relegation fight? We kind of look on the periphery to me.
Well i'd say that any club that is within 2 games (5-6 points) of dropping into a relegation spot is in danger of relegation. At the moment there are 5 points separating 10th from 20th, 6 points separating 10th from 18th, so all of those clubs are in the mix for relegation. At the moment it doesn't look like anyone is going to pull away from that group or that the bottom 3 are going to become isolated so i think it's going to be tight for a lot of clubs near the end of the season.
It's not just the number of points it's the number of places too. It would take a whole group of sides to go on a sustained run of improved form and results for enough of them to go above us and put us into the relegation places.
it's possible but unlikely.