Brigada Corner

[Sunny Villa]

Once again , Brigada  model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement ,   well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .

this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.

 

If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else  seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.

Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th

Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .

anyways , said my point and honestly abhor  Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .

Which in my personal view they represent .   and for the record I am not alone . 

Why should there be a problem on 11th November when there never has been before, and what comments about troops were these?

Dave , do you frequent their website ?

[pauliewalnuts]

So that seems fair , is not the ANTIFA movement very prevalent as are the Ultras in the G8 riots , for sure I have a problem with that ,   there are loads of us Villa fans that are very proud of our Country , Support our Troops , and support democracy which means that both sides have a right to free speech.

what I am saying , there are loads of platforms to put forward your political standing and football should not be one of them ,   

Why does being anti fascist or anti racist mean you're in some way not proud of your country or dont support our troops?

There's no place for fascism within free speech - fascism seeks to end free speech and does not support democracy, it seeks to undermine it.

As for racism, I can't really believe I need to explain how that impinges on democracy or freedom of speech. Do i?

If you think this is a case where politics need to be kept out of sport, I take it you'll want the ending of the Kick It Out campaign?

Sorry but you ignored the G8 comment are the ANTIFA and the ULTRA MOVEMENT prevalent in these riots  ?

Because there's a gigantic space between a few kids calling themselves ultras and waving anti racism banners and G8 riots.

It's a total non sequitur and a flimsy excuse to suggest anti racism and racism should be treated the same way in the name of "keeping politics out of football".

For starters, the blanket labelling of any group which calls themselves Ultras as in some way the equivalent of people engaged in rioting is exactly the sort of narrow minded nonsense that saw people like us getting labelled as hooligan scum in the 1980s because of the actions of a relatively small group of people.

If your standpoint is that racism and anti-racism are in anyway to be treated the same, then you have got to be nuts. Or racist.

Or both.

[dave.woodhall]

Once again , Brigada  model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement ,   well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .

this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.

 

If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else  seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.

Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th

Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .

anyways , said my point and honestly abhor  Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .

Which in my personal view they represent .   and for the record I am not alone . 

Why should there be a problem on 11th November when there never has been before, and what comments about troops were these?

Dave , do you frequent their website ?

No, and neither do I associate entire groups with what someone might say on a messageboard.

[Sunny Villa]

So that seems fair , is not the ANTIFA movement very prevalent as are the Ultras in the G8 riots , for sure I have a problem with that ,   there are loads of us Villa fans that are very proud of our Country , Support our Troops , and support democracy which means that both sides have a right to free speech.

what I am saying , there are loads of platforms to put forward your political standing and football should not be one of them ,   

Why does being anti fascist or anti racist mean you're in some way not proud of your country or dont support our troops?

There's no place for fascism within free speech - fascism seeks to end free speech and does not support democracy, it seeks to undermine it.

As for racism, I can't really believe I need to explain how that impinges on democracy or freedom of speech. Do i?

If you think this is a case where politics need to be kept out of sport, I take it you'll want the ending of the Kick It Out campaign?

Sorry but you ignored the G8 comment are the ANTIFA and the ULTRA MOVEMENT prevalent in these riots  ?

Because there's a gigantic space between a few kids calling themselves ultras and waving anti racism banners and G8 riots.

It's a total non sequitur and a flimsy excuse to suggest anti racism and racism should be treated the same way in the name of "keeping politics out of football".

For starters, the blanket labelling of any group which calls themselves Ultras as in some way the equivalent of people engaged in rioting is exactly the sort of narrow minded nonsense that saw people like us getting labelled as hooligan scum in the 1980s because of the actions of a relatively small group of people.

If your standpoint is that racism and anti-racism are in anyway to be treated the same, then you have got to be nuts. Or racist.

Or both.

utter nonsense .

lets move to the political forum , but that is such nonsense where does the organization for such riots spring from .

as you are a Villa supporter I will be respectful , but that is very myopic 

[dave.woodhall]

Where indeed does the organisation for political demonstrations come from? Political activists perhaps?

[danlanza]

Was sat right by them this evening.
They were no problem at all.
I can only think that there's previous history

Maybe i should not say this, but, i am going to. Previous history there is, and lots of it from what i have learned from reliable people inside the VP security. Threatening letters sent to Stewards and their families from certain people connected with Brigada may not help the situation. Also letters sent to the Club by the same people defying all HSE rules to the point where " We will stand when we want to stand and we will unfurl banners when we want to" type stuff. Doesn't really help them does it. Before anybody umps and says " Prove it, " Contact the Club Security and they will be more than willing to discuss the situation, from what i understand. We all want a good atmosphere at VP, banners , flags, singing, standing, but please do it in the right way. Sending threatening letters is just bloody stupid. Just do what you do, but obey the rules of the club. Not that hard , is it ?

[pauliewalnuts]

How is it myopic and how is it nonsense? Go on, let's hear your reasoning.

What's the connection between a load of kids standing and waving anti fascist banners and the G8 riots?

And, out of interest, where was your clamour for keeping politics out of football when you were outlining your reasons why you thought it was ridiculous to think of playing a friendly against Celtic in support of Petrov?

Is it all politics you want kept out of football, or just the ones of people you don't agree with?

[Percy McCarthy]

Oh shit. Dan's lost his tablets again.

[Sunny Villa]

Once again , Brigada  model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement ,   well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .

this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.

 

If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else  seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.

Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th

Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .

anyways , said my point and honestly abhor  Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .

Which in my personal view they represent .   and for the record I am not alone . 

Why should there be a problem on 11th November when there never has been before, and what comments about troops were these?

Dave , do you frequent their website ?

No, and neither do I associate entire groups with what someone might say on a messageboard.

As you run a successful  website that is very wise ,   as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .

but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs ,  as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background  .   but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England 

[dave.woodhall]

As you run a successful  website that is very wise ,   as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .

but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs ,  as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background  .   but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England 

There are many things said on here, running pretty much the whole range of mainstream politics. They are irrelevant in the football sections or on matchday. Whatever might be said on a Brigada website is equally irrelevant to their behaviour at the match, so where do you get this idea that they are a political group from?

[Sunny Villa]

How is it myopic and how is it nonsense? Go on, let's hear your reasoning.

What's the connection between a load of kids standing and waving anti fascist banners and the G8 riots?

And, out of interest, where was your clamour for keeping politics out of football when you were outlining your reasons why you thought it was ridiculous to think of playing a friendly against Celtic in support of Petrov?

Is it all politics you want kept out of football, or just the ones of people you don't agree with?

you understand the word grass roots , sorry to be condescending but your indignant reply somewhat deserves it .

I Stand by my comments on Petrov , the Brigada have  very strong relationships with Ultra groups in the UK ,  one of them being Celtic and for sure their is no doubting the links between that group and politics , 

for sure if they came to Birmingham and spouted their agenda in public there would be a significant amount of people young and old , from all and diverse demographics that would react .

this would cause a potentially negative impact on Aston Villa ,   

Why can you not accept politics and football should be kept separate , hooliganism was tribalism . is politics not the same under a different banner .

   

[Sunny Villa]

As you run a successful  website that is very wise ,   as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .

but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs ,  as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background  .   but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England 

There are many things said on here, running pretty much the whole range of mainstream politics. They are irrelevant in the football sections or on matchday. Whatever might be said on a Brigada website is equally irrelevant to their behaviour at the match, so where do you get this idea that they are a political group from?

Dave .

if you read their members only board when they first appeared it was very clear , anyone of a neutral political persuasion is rounded on like rabid dogs .

not in my name or the name of the Club I love , as I said I am old enough to have been through this before.

my concern it may end in conflict and therefore have a negative impact on the club .


 

[danlanza]

Oh shit. Dan's lost his tablets again.

No Percy, i have them in a safe place. Just what i have been told pal, nothing else. Not ITK nonsense either.

[dave.woodhall]

As you run a successful  website that is very wise ,   as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .

but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs ,  as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background  .   but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England 

There are many things said on here, running pretty much the whole range of mainstream politics. They are irrelevant in the football sections or on matchday. Whatever might be said on a Brigada website is equally irrelevant to their behaviour at the match, so where do you get this idea that they are a political group from?

Dave .

if you read their members only board when they first appeared it was very clear , anyone of a neutral political persuasion is rounded on like rabid dogs .

not in my name or the name of the Club I love , as I said I am old enough to have been through this before.

my concern it may end in conflict and therefore have a negative impact on the club .
 

Nobody seems overly bothered about it except you. Then again, nobody seems to find anything of any political nature in their behaviour except you.

[pauliewalnuts]

Why can you not accept politics and football should be kept separate , hooliganism was tribalism . is politics not the same under a different banner .
   

Because anti-racism and anti-fascism are not about poltics. They're about right and wrong.

As for the rest of your post, you've not bothered addressing any of the questions i put to you, beyond going on about Celtic and politics, which is largely irrelevant here.

And maybe the people who were talking about a Petrov benefit match weren't thinking about politics at all, they were thinking about charity?

I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in sectarian politics, zero. I don't care. I don't even like to see them discussed here, because it always ends up in a gigantic row which is exactly the same as the last row we had about them.

I am, however, able to see the difference between right and wrong when it comes to fascism and racism, and the "i just want to keep ALL politics out of football" is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to that.

These Brigada kids are about standing up, singing a lot and waving banners. It's not the sort of thing I'd be into at my age, but then again, how many 40 something men would be. You seem to have an agenda against them based on them feeling some sort of kinship with Celtic, which you've then spun out to mean that, actually, they're a bunch of British troop hating fenians (and yes, I've seen the banners at some Celtic matches, and I find them abhorrent, too).

Once again, it seems your main objection is to people whose politics might not tally with your own rather than some altruistic desire to keep politics out of football.