Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: cheltenhamlion on August 28, 2013, 10:33:47 PM
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What was up over there then?
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For those not at the game, any description of said reason for post?
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I've heard that a few people were thrown out of the Holte for persistent standing and singing, but have no idea if it was the Brigada crowd.
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And why did the Rotherham fans start fighting each other in the Upper North? Tune in next week to SOAP.
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They don't sit too far from me. I rock up shortly after kick off and am greeted by 20 odd stewards and coppers as I try to make my way up the steps from the concourse.
Within minutes they were chucking out all manner of people, presumably for standing up when they weren't in anybodys way.
It was certainly a planned operation.
After a number got the hook, a whole heap more buggered off in protest and the game was only twenty minutes old.
With how hard it is to get people through the gate for a game like tonight it seemed an odd move.
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I wondered why it looked so 'serene' over there. There was a camera pointed at them all game on Saturday. I hope they're not trying to get rid of them, but it looks like it.
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The council wanted a clampdown on standing and if they aren't happy they could close parts of the ground.
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We're lucky to live in a country where the situation, local and national, is just so utterly serene that we can waste time getting people to point cameras at kids who stand up at football matches.
What an absolute load of old fucking nonsense that is.
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We're lucky to live in a country where the situation, local and national, is just so utterly serene that we can waste time getting people to point cameras at kids who stand up at football matches.
What an absolute load of old fucking nonsense that is.
of
Yep.
Shows how shit scared they are of any yoots getting together unless they are all sitting down and plugged into their gizmos.
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And yet I had to stand in the North Lower all game.How many get thrown out of the LG arena for standing?
Wouldn't have anything to do with the council owning said arena would it?
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When they first appeared and said they'd stand and sod the rules, I commented that it may bite them on the ass at some stage.
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I thought they always stood?
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The council wanted a clampdown on standing and if they aren't happy they could close parts of the ground.
Was my presumption for the reason why, but it has to be said it looked and felt way over the top tonight (We sit a bit nearer than where Chelt's is). A number of season ticket holders went and spoke to the stewards about it and there were a lot of people very unhappy about it (I'm talking the regulars here, folks I recognise as being there at every game), to the point where if it had been a big league game with all the regulars in I think they could have created a real situation (I obviously can't know that for certain, I'm just saying how it felt to me tonight).
I don't think I've even so much as hinted at any concern with our stewards at any point in all the time I've been going to Villa Park, I think they do a sometimes difficult job very well, but tonight felt really uncomfortable to me. I think there is an explaining job to do here, not in a blame game kind of a way, but simply in terms of clearly stating what is going on, because a lot of people were unhappy tonight and this is just the sort of thing that can fester if some work isn't done now - maybe a leaflet put on seats around this part of Lower Holte? items in the programme just aren't seen by lots of people in truth.
One for the next SCG I'd say, but that might well be leaving it too long.
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When you buy a ticket for the council owned LG arena it states 'people may stand in front of you' on the ticket.
I have been to concerts where it has kicked off over this and yet nothing is done.
Football fans being treated like shit by jobsworths again!
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Check out @FSF_FairCop's Tweet: https://twitter.com/FSF_FairCop/status/372811618058788864
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When you buy a ticket for the council owned LG arena it states 'people may stand in front of you' on the ticket.
I have been to concerts where it has kicked off over this and yet nothing is done.
Football fans being treated like shit by jobsworths again!
Excellent point. Some clown insisted on standing up in front of my Missus last time I saw Weller at the NIA, where the 'rake' is very steep. I asked him politely to sit down and he said "No chance mate", telling me that the booking office had assured him that he would be allowed to stand in the seated area, even though there was a standing area for five thousand people that the twat could have bought a ticket for. I wonder if the HSE is aware of this policy? I feel they should be told.
Anyway, it all ended amicably enough when I informed him that at some point in the near future I would be pushing him very hard in the back, causing him to hobble around embarrassed and apologising to people who were splattered with his blood.
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who cares .
they can stick their flares , politics and Ultra bullshit where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned .
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I thought the consensus was that the atmosphere they generate far outweighs any dubious populist sloganeering from a small number of their faction.
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who cares .
they can stick their flares , politics and Ultra bullshit where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned .
Except they weren't ejected for any of that stuff, they were ejected for standing. If this should ever happen to you, I take it you won't complain.
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I stood all night at the back of the Upper Holte and the stewards didn't comment at all. I know there was a bit of bother by us with people trying to sit on the very back row, where nobody is allowed to be, and with a few others who weren't in their allocated seats, but they all moved without too much fuss.
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This annoys me, haven't the council, stewards and old bill got better things to do ?? Viva Brigada, don't give up on the villa lads.
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They clearly started on this lot within the first 5-10 minutes of the game. During Saturday league games, when the stewards approach them, they will often start a 'stand up if you love Villa' chant, and many around them stand in solidarity, so that the stewards don't know where to start.
They knew from before kick off that they could get them tonight due to the low crowd, and dispersed regulars, and this is clearly what they set out to do.
They didn't like being filmed by my my husband, and stood in his way. What did they have to hide? They started telling us to sit down too. Whilst all this was going on I missed the first goal! I told them I didn't have to sit down as we had just scored so it was 'a moment of high excitement' and therefore I was allowed to stand (totally deadpan like quoting a rule book which was slightly bizarre) I also advised them that they shouldn't eject anyone else for standing straight after a goal. They left us alone then, but carried on taking out Brigada. I tweeted to WMP, AVFC official &, for a laugh, AVFClive to see if I could get it on the big screen at half time (no). Fsf follows me on twitter, and picked it up for a retweet and asked a bit more about it.
In the cold light of day it is a dilemma for the club. They are in favour of standing, and would like to set up a standing section, but the impetus must come from the fans. Whilst fans stand anyway unopposed, they aren't going to be that interested in an official standing section, therefore there will be no impetus. Also, it was pretty clear that they had an agenda last night so the club may be under some pressure on this. It is always true that they have to be seen to be trying to stop standing, but last night was more than that, last night it was clear that they didn't only have to be seen to stop people standing, they had to stop people standing. They planned it for a game when they could have an impact, and they enacted that plan right from kick off.
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Was sat right by them this evening.
They were no problem at all.
I can only think that there's previous history
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I stood all night at the back of the Upper Holte and the stewards didn't comment at all. I know there was a bit of bother by us with people trying to sit on the very back row, where nobody is allowed to be, and with a few others who weren't in their allocated seats, but they all moved without too much fuss.
And we always stand at away games and away supporters stand at VP.
Surely they are setting something of a dangerous precedent here aren't they?
If they are going to eject the Brigada guys for standing then they should eject everyone who stands!???
Nobody's causing any trouble or harm: leave it alone!
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The club do an excellent job of trying to get punters through the door and then once in they allow something such as this to happen. It beggars belief it really does. This Brigada crowd are not harming anybody. If they were then you could understand such an approach but to set up this Nazi preplanned style of harassment is nothing short of pathetic.
If it's a council instruction the club should be talking to the council telling them what a bunch of twats they really are.
I'm absolutely certain that our stewards time and most definitely employees of Birmingham City council's time could be put to far better use than the standing situation in a small section of our ground.
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The club do an excellent job of trying to get punters through the door and then once in they allow something such as this to happen. It beggars belief it really does. This Brigada crowd are not harming anybody. If they were then you could understand such an approach but to set up this Nazi preplanned style of harassment is nothing short of pathetic.
If it's a council instruction the club should be talking to the council telling them what a bunch of twats they really are.
I'm absolutely certain that our stewards time and most definitely employees of Birmingham City council's time could be put to far better use than the standing situation in a small section of our ground.
You're absolutely right except for one thing. Tell the council that they're twats and they're likely to tell us the ground, or at least part of it, is closed.
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I don't know if there has been but some dialogue would be the starting point surely?
If the club are getting it in the neck from the council then perhaps they could organise a meeting with the Brigada folks.
Last night seemed incredibly heavy handed.
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Watching football is dangerous if you stand but being pissed watching a gig and dancing in your seats isn't?
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I thought the point of putting them on the wing was that they could stand unofficially.
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I was sitting at back of the lower North on Sunday. Everyone stood for 80% of the match. Strange tactics by AVFC
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I was sitting at back of the lower North on Sunday. Everyone stood for 80% of the match. Strange tactics by AVFC
With pints in their hand as well.Not one steward where they normally are.Must have been up the Holte.
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The club do an excellent job of trying to get punters through the door and then once in they allow something such as this to happen. It beggars belief it really does. This Brigada crowd are not harming anybody. If they were then you could understand such an approach but to set up this Nazi preplanned style of harassment is nothing short of pathetic.
If it's a council instruction the club should be talking to the council telling them what a bunch of twats they really are.
I'm absolutely certain that our stewards time and most definitely employees of Birmingham City council's time could be put to far better use than the standing situation in a small section of our ground.
You're absolutely right except for one thing. Tell the council that they're twats and they're likely to tell us the ground, or at least part of it, is closed.
I know, what I meant was tell them they are twats with saying twats.
For instance, explain to them the difference between a group standing in a seated area and a group scaling the north face of the Eiger.
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The club do an excellent job of trying to get punters through the door and then once in they allow something such as this to happen. It beggars belief it really does. This Brigada crowd are not harming anybody. If they were then you could understand such an approach but to set up this Nazi preplanned style of harassment is nothing short of pathetic.
If it's a council instruction the club should be talking to the council telling them what a bunch of twats they really are.
I'm absolutely certain that our stewards time and most definitely employees of Birmingham City council's time could be put to far better use than the standing situation in a small section of our ground.
You're absolutely right except for one thing. Tell the council that they're twats and they're likely to tell us the ground, or at least part of it, is closed.
I know, what I meant was tell them they are twats with saying twats.
For instance, explain to them the difference between a group standing in a seated area and a group scaling the north face of the Eiger.
They do. There's not a club in the Premier League who want standing more than Villa. But what the council says, goes.
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Does it need an act of Parliament to allow standing?
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Does it need an act of Parliament to allow standing?
there's a recent parliamentary briefing paper on these issues, if anyone is interested - http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03937.pdf
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Does it need an act of Parliament to allow standing?
there's a recent parliamentary briefing paper on these issues, if anyone is interested - http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03937.pdf
Ta.
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Does it need an act of Parliament to allow standing?
there's a recent parliamentary briefing paper on these issues, if anyone is interested - http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN03937.pdf
Interesting stuff.
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Pre-match yesterday, there were messages put up on the screens warning people to be aware that balls could fly into the stands during the warmups.
I've not seen such warnings at Villa Park before.
Maybe the club have been told that they need to improve their H&S policies.
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Pre-match yesterday, there were messages put up on the screens warning people to be aware that balls could fly into the stands during the warmups.
I've not seen such warnings at Villa Park before.
Maybe the club have been told that they need to improve their H&S policies.
I wonder has somebody been trying to take them to court over an incident? It does sound like they are covering their backs now. Something must have happened?
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I stood for 90 minutes last night in the North Stand Lower, I was disappointed to see about 3 coppers eject a lad of about 14-15 for persistently turning round and looking up at the away fans. I didn't notice too many of the northern tossers that were hurling obscenities at him throughout the game get removed from the stadium.
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This is just another example of what is wrong with modern football. It's not logical. Politically Correct bollox, like be able to stand with a pint in one hand whilst watching a non-league game except when it's a F.A. Cup game, where in the case of Stourbridge F.C. you can stand with said pint the other side of the player entrance in view of the pitch but you cannot stand directly next to the pitch. It simply defies logic.
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How did the Brigada end up in that particular section? Was it with the club's collaboration and consent or something they arranged off their own bat? Because if it's the former then last night's actions strike me as somewhat perverse.
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I was sitting at back of the lower North on Sunday. Everyone stood for 80% of the match. Strange tactics by AVFC
With pints in their hand as well.Not one steward where they normally are.Must have been up the Holte.
Probably all at home as we didnt have a match on Sunday!
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@standamf - worth checking out if your fed up of the modern game
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a HSE visit from the council. Like an Ofsted.
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why have the club also never warned me that that under strict h&s rules the alcohol before the game is overpriced and the cup of tea is possibly the worst you will ever have tasted. villa till i die ( after the tea i poss will be)
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who cares .
they can stick their flares , politics and Ultra bullshit where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned .
Except they weren't ejected for any of that stuff, they were ejected for standing. If this should ever happen to you, I take it you won't complain.
as I said who cares !!! seems like loads of Villa were standing up with no problem , must be them poor souls bless em !!! maybe they should find another venue to make their political statements. plenty of room for standing on the M6 .
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who cares .
they can stick their flares , politics and Ultra bullshit where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned .
Except they weren't ejected for any of that stuff, they were ejected for standing. If this should ever happen to you, I take it you won't complain.
as I said who cares !!! seems like loads of Villa were standing up with no problem , must be them poor souls bless em !!! maybe they should find another venue to make their political statements. plenty of room for standing on the M6 .
Did they call your pint a poof or something?
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
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who cares .
they can stick their flares , politics and Ultra bullshit where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned .
Except they weren't ejected for any of that stuff, they were ejected for standing. If this should ever happen to you, I take it you won't complain.
as I said who cares !!! seems like loads of Villa were standing up with no problem , must be them poor souls bless em !!! maybe they should find another venue to make their political statements. plenty of room for standing on the M6 .
You lead the way then.
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
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who cares .
they can stick their flares , politics and Ultra bullshit where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned .
Except they weren't ejected for any of that stuff, they were ejected for standing. If this should ever happen to you, I take it you won't complain.
as I said who cares !!! seems like loads of Villa were standing up with no problem , must be them poor souls bless em !!! maybe they should find another venue to make their political statements. plenty of room for standing on the M6 .
You lead the way then.
Why would I do that sweet pea !
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Are you the guy that had an axe to grind with them the last time they came up? Or am I confused, again?
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who cares .
they can stick their flares , politics and Ultra bullshit where the sun don't shine as far as I am concerned .
Except they weren't ejected for any of that stuff, they were ejected for standing. If this should ever happen to you, I take it you won't complain.
as I said who cares !!! seems like loads of Villa were standing up with no problem , must be them poor souls bless em !!! maybe they should find another venue to make their political statements. plenty of room for standing on the M6 .
Did they call your pint a poof or something?
interesting ,
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Once again, they weren't ejected for that.
You seem to be conflating two separate issues to argue a different point entirely.
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Are you the guy that had an axe to grind with them the last time they came up? Or am I confused, again?
my axe to grind is politics and football nothing more nothing less .
when there was a load of NF supporting lumps , I had the same issue , before keyboards so myself and some others made our feelings well known face to face . if you get my drift .
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As I have mentioned before. Villa is currently supported by the Tory prime-minister, ex head of the bank of england and the heir to the throne. If a few weekend marxists want to wave a Villa banner around then I am pretty sure we can accommodate that without being labelled as the club of the revolutionary left :)
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Ant-racism is as bad as racism. That's an interesting point of view.
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Once again, they weren't ejected for that.
You seem to be conflating two separate issues to argue a different point entirely.
I pointed out that plenty of Villa were standing with no intervention , but these poor souls seem to have a problem with the authorities , if you are a hooligan you get treated differently , if you flagrantly break rules whether it be flares, Standing or whatever they will of course receive special attention , same horse different jockey .
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Ant-racism is as bad as racism. That's an interesting point of view.
missing the point , Football or sport in general should be spared from any political agenda .
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Ant-racism is as bad as racism. That's an interesting point of view.
missing the point , Football or sport in general should be spared from any political agenda .
Sorry to stick my beak in again. I will piss off in a bit. But while many of us would agree with you, does that happen? I mean some of the top clubs in various countries are overtly political (Barca, Celtic/Rangers as examples). I dont really like it either but it is a reality. The Brigada fellows seem positively tame in comparison , no?
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Ant-racism is as bad as racism. That's an interesting point of view.
missing the point , Football or sport in general should be spared from any political agenda .
It's not missing the point. You have some problem with Brigada because you perceive them as a political organisation, which when asked translates as they on occasion have held up an anti-racism banner - which is exactly what happens at football matches throughout the world on regular occasions, when it's supported by clubs and everyone from FIFA down. I've even seen policemen wearing anti-racist badges and if they can wear them then it's hardly a political issue.
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Ant-racism is as bad as racism. That's an interesting point of view.
missing the point , Football or sport in general should be spared from any political agenda .
Not really, not unless you say anti-racism is as bad as racism, or anti-fascism is as bad as fascism.
That's not politics, that's right versus wrong.
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As I have mentioned before. Villa is currently supported by the Tory prime-minister, ex head of the bank of england and the heir to the throne. If a few weekend marxists want to wave a Villa banner around then I am pretty sure we can accommodate that without being labelled as the club of the revolutionary left :)
As per my previous comments , why Politics in Football , it happened in the 70s how did that work out. I am sure there are plenty of people with opposing views to them in the ground , why set up potential confrontation .
I have friends who both have their own political persuasions and whenever the subject comes up the discussions always end up heated .
Football is or should be a sanctuary from this , one goal , one team , AVFC .
Their blatant abuse of this is unsettling , hence why my concern .
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I pointed out that plenty of Villa were standing with no intervention , but these poor souls seem to have a problem with the authorities , if you are a hooligan you get treated differently , if you flagrantly break rules whether it be flares, Standing or whatever they will of course receive special attention , same horse different jockey .
Sounds like plenty of Villa have a problem with authority if as many were standing last night as has been said. It seems like they targeted the Holte End more than anything, seeing as how another poster here, Amfy, was told to sit down after Villa scored the first goal. I'm pretty stunned you're happy to see fellow Villa fans get treated this way, regardless of them breaking a petty rule such as standing.
Fair play to the people who walked out in solidarity with those who were chucked out. The club should say something about it really.
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Ant-racism is as bad as racism. That's an interesting point of view.
missing the point , Football or sport in general should be spared from any political agenda .
It's not missing the point. You have some problem with Brigada because you perceive them as a political organisation, which when asked translates as they on occasion have held up an anti-racism banner - which is exactly what happens at football matches throughout the world on regular occasions, when it's supported by clubs and everyone from FIFA down. I've even seen policemen wearing anti-racist badges and if they can wear them then it's hardly a political issue.
Once again , Brigada model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement , well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .
this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
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this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
Sunny, you brought it up!
Peace anyway, I'm off to bed. Roll on the weekend :)
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As I have mentioned before. Villa is currently supported by the Tory prime-minister, ex head of the bank of england and the heir to the throne. If a few weekend marxists want to wave a Villa banner around then I am pretty sure we can accommodate that without being labelled as the club of the revolutionary left :)
As per my previous comments , why Politics in Football , it happened in the 70s how did that work out. I am sure there are plenty of people with opposing views to them in the ground , why set up potential confrontation .
I have friends who both have their own political persuasions and whenever the subject comes up the discussions always end up heated .
Football is or should be a sanctuary from this , one goal , one team , AVFC .
Their blatant abuse of this is unsettling , hence why my concern .
Fair enough mate. I appreciate the response.
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Once again , Brigada model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement , well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .
this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.
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In what parallel universe is singing about the Villa a political statement?
Dave
you have surely seen the ANTIFA banners , its as bad as the old NF Villa banners at England games , I believe in zero politics at Football either way.
Ant-racism is as bad as racism. That's an interesting point of view.
missing the point , Football or sport in general should be spared from any political agenda .
Not really, not unless you say anti-racism is as bad as racism, or anti-fascism is as bad as fascism.
That's not politics, that's right versus wrong.
So that seems fair , is not the ANTIFA movement very prevalent as are the Ultras in the G8 riots , for sure I have a problem with that , there are loads of us Villa fans that are very proud of our Country , Support our Troops , and support democracy which means that both sides have a right to free speech.
what I am saying , there are loads of platforms to put forward your political standing and football should not be one of them ,
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Once again , Brigada model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement , well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .
this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.
Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th
Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .
anyways , said my point and honestly abhor Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .
Which in my personal view they represent . and for the record I am not alone .
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So that seems fair , is not the ANTIFA movement very prevalent as are the Ultras in the G8 riots , for sure I have a problem with that , there are loads of us Villa fans that are very proud of our Country , Support our Troops , and support democracy which means that both sides have a right to free speech.
what I am saying , there are loads of platforms to put forward your political standing and football should not be one of them ,
Why does being anti fascist or anti racist mean you're in some way not proud of your country or dont support our troops?
There's no place for fascism within free speech - fascism seeks to end free speech and does not support democracy, it seeks to undermine it.
As for racism, I can't really believe I need to explain how that impinges on democracy or freedom of speech. Do i?
If you think this is a case where politics need to be kept out of sport, I take it you'll want the ending of the Kick It Out campaign?
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Once again , Brigada model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement , well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .
this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.
Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th
Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .
anyways , said my point and honestly abhor Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .
Which in my personal view they represent . and for the record I am not alone .
Why should there be a problem on 11th November when there never has been before, and what comments about troops were these?
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I pointed out that plenty of Villa were standing with no intervention , but these poor souls seem to have a problem with the authorities , if you are a hooligan you get treated differently , if you flagrantly break rules whether it be flares, Standing or whatever they will of course receive special attention , same horse different jockey .
Sounds like plenty of Villa have a problem with authority if as many were standing last night as has been said. It seems like they targeted the Holte End more than anything, seeing as how another poster here, Amfy, was told to sit down after Villa scored the first goal. I'm pretty stunned you're happy to see fellow Villa fans get treated this way, regardless of them breaking a petty rule such as standing.
Fair play to the people who walked out in solidarity with those who were chucked out. The club should say something about it really.
So petty rules , like no smoking , no throwing flares should be ignored , well lets just go back to invading the pitch and kicking the benny out of each other , lets chuck a few bottles and get the monkey chants back .
if you break the rules you get punished , simples , if you don't want the time don't do the crime .
loads stand up and nothing gets said , you draw attention to yourself you will get pulled .
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So that seems fair , is not the ANTIFA movement very prevalent as are the Ultras in the G8 riots , for sure I have a problem with that , there are loads of us Villa fans that are very proud of our Country , Support our Troops , and support democracy which means that both sides have a right to free speech.
what I am saying , there are loads of platforms to put forward your political standing and football should not be one of them ,
Why does being anti fascist or anti racist mean you're in some way not proud of your country or dont support our troops?
There's no place for fascism within free speech - fascism seeks to end free speech and does not support democracy, it seeks to undermine it.
As for racism, I can't really believe I need to explain how that impinges on democracy or freedom of speech. Do i?
If you think this is a case where politics need to be kept out of sport, I take it you'll want the ending of the Kick It Out campaign?
Sorry but you ignored the G8 comment are the ANTIFA and the ULTRA MOVEMENT prevalent in these riots ?
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Once again , Brigada model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement , well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .
this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.
Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th
Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .
anyways , said my point and honestly abhor Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .
Which in my personal view they represent . and for the record I am not alone .
Why should there be a problem on 11th November when there never has been before, and what comments about troops were these?
Dave , do you frequent their website ?
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So that seems fair , is not the ANTIFA movement very prevalent as are the Ultras in the G8 riots , for sure I have a problem with that , there are loads of us Villa fans that are very proud of our Country , Support our Troops , and support democracy which means that both sides have a right to free speech.
what I am saying , there are loads of platforms to put forward your political standing and football should not be one of them ,
Why does being anti fascist or anti racist mean you're in some way not proud of your country or dont support our troops?
There's no place for fascism within free speech - fascism seeks to end free speech and does not support democracy, it seeks to undermine it.
As for racism, I can't really believe I need to explain how that impinges on democracy or freedom of speech. Do i?
If you think this is a case where politics need to be kept out of sport, I take it you'll want the ending of the Kick It Out campaign?
Sorry but you ignored the G8 comment are the ANTIFA and the ULTRA MOVEMENT prevalent in these riots ?
Because there's a gigantic space between a few kids calling themselves ultras and waving anti racism banners and G8 riots.
It's a total non sequitur and a flimsy excuse to suggest anti racism and racism should be treated the same way in the name of "keeping politics out of football".
For starters, the blanket labelling of any group which calls themselves Ultras as in some way the equivalent of people engaged in rioting is exactly the sort of narrow minded nonsense that saw people like us getting labelled as hooligan scum in the 1980s because of the actions of a relatively small group of people.
If your standpoint is that racism and anti-racism are in anyway to be treated the same, then you have got to be nuts. Or racist.
Or both.
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Once again , Brigada model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement , well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .
this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.
Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th
Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .
anyways , said my point and honestly abhor Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .
Which in my personal view they represent . and for the record I am not alone .
Why should there be a problem on 11th November when there never has been before, and what comments about troops were these?
Dave , do you frequent their website ?
No, and neither do I associate entire groups with what someone might say on a messageboard.
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So that seems fair , is not the ANTIFA movement very prevalent as are the Ultras in the G8 riots , for sure I have a problem with that , there are loads of us Villa fans that are very proud of our Country , Support our Troops , and support democracy which means that both sides have a right to free speech.
what I am saying , there are loads of platforms to put forward your political standing and football should not be one of them ,
Why does being anti fascist or anti racist mean you're in some way not proud of your country or dont support our troops?
There's no place for fascism within free speech - fascism seeks to end free speech and does not support democracy, it seeks to undermine it.
As for racism, I can't really believe I need to explain how that impinges on democracy or freedom of speech. Do i?
If you think this is a case where politics need to be kept out of sport, I take it you'll want the ending of the Kick It Out campaign?
Sorry but you ignored the G8 comment are the ANTIFA and the ULTRA MOVEMENT prevalent in these riots ?
Because there's a gigantic space between a few kids calling themselves ultras and waving anti racism banners and G8 riots.
It's a total non sequitur and a flimsy excuse to suggest anti racism and racism should be treated the same way in the name of "keeping politics out of football".
For starters, the blanket labelling of any group which calls themselves Ultras as in some way the equivalent of people engaged in rioting is exactly the sort of narrow minded nonsense that saw people like us getting labelled as hooligan scum in the 1980s because of the actions of a relatively small group of people.
If your standpoint is that racism and anti-racism are in anyway to be treated the same, then you have got to be nuts. Or racist.
Or both.
utter nonsense .
lets move to the political forum , but that is such nonsense where does the organization for such riots spring from .
as you are a Villa supporter I will be respectful , but that is very myopic
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Where indeed does the organisation for political demonstrations come from? Political activists perhaps?
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Was sat right by them this evening.
They were no problem at all.
I can only think that there's previous history
Maybe i should not say this, but, i am going to. Previous history there is, and lots of it from what i have learned from reliable people inside the VP security. Threatening letters sent to Stewards and their families from certain people connected with Brigada may not help the situation. Also letters sent to the Club by the same people defying all HSE rules to the point where " We will stand when we want to stand and we will unfurl banners when we want to" type stuff. Doesn't really help them does it. Before anybody umps and says " Prove it, " Contact the Club Security and they will be more than willing to discuss the situation, from what i understand. We all want a good atmosphere at VP, banners , flags, singing, standing, but please do it in the right way. Sending threatening letters is just bloody stupid. Just do what you do, but obey the rules of the club. Not that hard , is it ?
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How is it myopic and how is it nonsense? Go on, let's hear your reasoning.
What's the connection between a load of kids standing and waving anti fascist banners and the G8 riots?
And, out of interest, where was your clamour for keeping politics out of football when you were outlining your reasons why you thought it was ridiculous to think of playing a friendly against Celtic in support of Petrov?
Is it all politics you want kept out of football, or just the ones of people you don't agree with?
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Oh shit. Dan's lost his tablets again.
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Once again , Brigada model themselves on the Ultra , their politics are pretty clear that is the Ultra movement , well guess what , not everybody at Villa will want to be represented by a group with political leanings that they may not agree with , same as you, myself and others would not want to be represented by the far right .
this debate demonstrates that politics and football should not mix as it is detrimental to the unity the club are trying to rebuild.
If their politics are so clear perhaps you could enlighten us, because you're the only one who has claimed that they are a political group. Everyone else seems to think they're only interested in singing football songs.
Dave , my reply is below but to emphasize it lets see what happens Nov 11th
Last year some of their comments about the troops on the pitch , which they quickly retracted . once challenged .
anyways , said my point and honestly abhor Football and certainly Aston Villa being potentially used as a political platform .
Which in my personal view they represent . and for the record I am not alone .
Why should there be a problem on 11th November when there never has been before, and what comments about troops were these?
Dave , do you frequent their website ?
No, and neither do I associate entire groups with what someone might say on a messageboard.
As you run a successful website that is very wise , as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .
but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs , as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background . but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England
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As you run a successful website that is very wise , as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .
but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs , as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background . but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England
There are many things said on here, running pretty much the whole range of mainstream politics. They are irrelevant in the football sections or on matchday. Whatever might be said on a Brigada website is equally irrelevant to their behaviour at the match, so where do you get this idea that they are a political group from?
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How is it myopic and how is it nonsense? Go on, let's hear your reasoning.
What's the connection between a load of kids standing and waving anti fascist banners and the G8 riots?
And, out of interest, where was your clamour for keeping politics out of football when you were outlining your reasons why you thought it was ridiculous to think of playing a friendly against Celtic in support of Petrov?
Is it all politics you want kept out of football, or just the ones of people you don't agree with?
you understand the word grass roots , sorry to be condescending but your indignant reply somewhat deserves it .
I Stand by my comments on Petrov , the Brigada have very strong relationships with Ultra groups in the UK , one of them being Celtic and for sure their is no doubting the links between that group and politics ,
for sure if they came to Birmingham and spouted their agenda in public there would be a significant amount of people young and old , from all and diverse demographics that would react .
this would cause a potentially negative impact on Aston Villa ,
Why can you not accept politics and football should be kept separate , hooliganism was tribalism . is politics not the same under a different banner .
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As you run a successful website that is very wise , as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .
but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs , as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background . but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England
There are many things said on here, running pretty much the whole range of mainstream politics. They are irrelevant in the football sections or on matchday. Whatever might be said on a Brigada website is equally irrelevant to their behaviour at the match, so where do you get this idea that they are a political group from?
Dave .
if you read their members only board when they first appeared it was very clear , anyone of a neutral political persuasion is rounded on like rabid dogs .
not in my name or the name of the Club I love , as I said I am old enough to have been through this before.
my concern it may end in conflict and therefore have a negative impact on the club .
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Oh shit. Dan's lost his tablets again.
No Percy, i have them in a safe place. Just what i have been told pal, nothing else. Not ITK nonsense either.
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As you run a successful website that is very wise , as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .
but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs , as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background . but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England
There are many things said on here, running pretty much the whole range of mainstream politics. They are irrelevant in the football sections or on matchday. Whatever might be said on a Brigada website is equally irrelevant to their behaviour at the match, so where do you get this idea that they are a political group from?
Dave .
if you read their members only board when they first appeared it was very clear , anyone of a neutral political persuasion is rounded on like rabid dogs .
not in my name or the name of the Club I love , as I said I am old enough to have been through this before.
my concern it may end in conflict and therefore have a negative impact on the club .
Nobody seems overly bothered about it except you. Then again, nobody seems to find anything of any political nature in their behaviour except you.
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Why can you not accept politics and football should be kept separate , hooliganism was tribalism . is politics not the same under a different banner .
Because anti-racism and anti-fascism are not about poltics. They're about right and wrong.
As for the rest of your post, you've not bothered addressing any of the questions i put to you, beyond going on about Celtic and politics, which is largely irrelevant here.
And maybe the people who were talking about a Petrov benefit match weren't thinking about politics at all, they were thinking about charity?
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in sectarian politics, zero. I don't care. I don't even like to see them discussed here, because it always ends up in a gigantic row which is exactly the same as the last row we had about them.
I am, however, able to see the difference between right and wrong when it comes to fascism and racism, and the "i just want to keep ALL politics out of football" is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to that.
These Brigada kids are about standing up, singing a lot and waving banners. It's not the sort of thing I'd be into at my age, but then again, how many 40 something men would be. You seem to have an agenda against them based on them feeling some sort of kinship with Celtic, which you've then spun out to mean that, actually, they're a bunch of British troop hating fenians (and yes, I've seen the banners at some Celtic matches, and I find them abhorrent, too).
Once again, it seems your main objection is to people whose politics might not tally with your own rather than some altruistic desire to keep politics out of football.
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How can you keep things separate? We are, most of us at least, rounded individuals with interests in a wide range subjects that often overlap. We're not Worzel Gummidge (sp) saying "today I'm wearing my football head."
Would you also say that the "Kick it Out" campaign, for example, should be stopped?
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As you run a successful website that is very wise , as you know like minded people flock to places where the majority of the time their opinions will be accepted and discussed in a grown up manner .
but as you do not frequent the website , it may open your eyes , if anyone says anything to the contrary of their political beliefs , as said my politics are firmly down the middle , but this was a little too one sided for this group which is disturbing considering my background as a brummie with Irish catholic background . but still very happy to have the opportunity to live in England
There are many things said on here, running pretty much the whole range of mainstream politics. They are irrelevant in the football sections or on matchday. Whatever might be said on a Brigada website is equally irrelevant to their behaviour at the match, so where do you get this idea that they are a political group from?
Dave .
if you read their members only board when they first appeared it was very clear , anyone of a neutral political persuasion is rounded on like rabid dogs .
not in my name or the name of the Club I love , as I said I am old enough to have been through this before.
my concern it may end in conflict and therefore have a negative impact on the club .
Nobody seems overly bothered about it except you. Then again, nobody seems to find anything of any political nature in their behaviour except you.
Dave
that is unfair and incorrect their was substantial concerns made about this group made some of them put forward their views too forcefully and rightly banned .
I try to put my thoughts forward in a respectful manner , but as you know our support is many and diverse , this site represents a cross section of support , other websites do also , there are obvious conflicts of opinions as some of the inter site banter .
if I am a lone voice on here , so be it . but as a supporter for over 45 years , I can tell you honestly that this group concerns lots of long term Villa fans as much as the other stuff in the 70s
If you feel my point of view is not welcome , frankly that is your choice mate
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Can you give us some actual evidence of what you are talking about?
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Dave
that is unfair and incorrect their was substantial concerns made about this group made some of them put forward their views too forcefully and rightly banned .
I try to put my thoughts forward in a respectful manner , but as you know our support is many and diverse , this site represents a cross section of support , other websites do also , there are obvious conflicts of opinions as some of the inter site banter .
if I am a lone voice on here , so be it . but as a supporter for over 45 years , I can tell you honestly that this group concerns lots of long term Villa fans as much as the other stuff in the 70s
If you feel my point of view is not welcome , frankly that is your choice mate
It's strange, but of all the people I talk to on matchday and elsewhere, and of all the correspondence I receive, nobody has ever mentioned the political standpoint of Brigada 1874. And yet this behaviour apparently raises concern amongst 'lots' of supporters.
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How can you keep things separate? We are, most of us at least, rounded individuals with interests in a wide range subjects that often overlap. We're not Worzel Gummidge (sp) saying "today I'm wearing my football head."
Would you also say that the "Kick it Out" campaign, for example, should be stopped?
Only Rio and Anton think that,but they take it in turns using the brain cell.
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Why can you not accept politics and football should be kept separate , hooliganism was tribalism . is politics not the same under a different banner .
Because anti-racism and anti-fascism are not about poltics. They're about right and wrong.
As for the rest of your post, you've not bothered addressing any of the questions i put to you, beyond going on about Celtic and politics, which is largely irrelevant here.
And maybe the people who were talking about a Petrov benefit match weren't thinking about politics at all, they were thinking about charity?
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in sectarian politics, zero. I don't care. I don't even like to see them discussed here, because it always ends up in a gigantic row which is exactly the same as the last row we had about them.
I am, however, able to see the difference between right and wrong when it comes to fascism and racism, and the "i just want to keep ALL politics out of football" is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to that.
These Brigada kids are about standing up, singing a lot and waving banners. It's not the sort of thing I'd be into at my age, but then again, how many 40 something men would be. You seem to have an agenda against them based on them feeling some sort of kinship with Celtic, which you've then spun out to mean that, actually, they're a bunch of British troop hating fenians (and yes, I've seen the banners at some Celtic matches, and I find them abhorrent, too).
Once again, it seems your main objection is to people whose politics might not tally with your own rather than some altruistic desire to keep politics out of football.
Thanks for your reply , I will try and respond as eloquently
Fascism and anti fascism is about beliefs , the right and wrong of those beliefs are in the eye of the beholder.
as I said I dislike both . as should everyone for the moment they enter AV .
Catholic and Protestants. Muslims and Jews what has that got to do with Football .
As for kids , are you sure ? without being rude do you sit by them , have you looked at the Videos , they are not young kids , but the ones getting banned from the ground for three years are.
plenty of 40 year olds in their ranks .
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Can you give us some actual evidence of what you are talking about?
with all due respect , join their website and check you tube
sorry to be curt , but if you think I am fabricating things for any other agenda than politics is not for football or Aston Villa
then ignore me .
No worries
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How can you keep things separate? We are, most of us at least, rounded individuals with interests in a wide range subjects that often overlap. We're not Worzel Gummidge (sp) saying "today I'm wearing my football head."
Would you also say that the "Kick it Out" campaign, for example, should be stopped?
Why is that , I support that absolutely but that is about Football ANTIFA agenda spreads a lot deeper than racism do you not think . so because you support the one agenda does not mean you support the rest .
as stated G8 and other riots , the support of ANTIFA members against our serving troops for one , and I can name many more .
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How can you keep things separate? We are, most of us at least, rounded individuals with interests in a wide range subjects that often overlap. We're not Worzel Gummidge (sp) saying "today I'm wearing my football head."
Would you also say that the "Kick it Out" campaign, for example, should be stopped?
Why is that , I support that absolutely but that is about Football ANTIFA agenda spreads a lot deeper than racism do you not think . so because you support the one agenda does not mean you support the rest .
as stated G8 and other riots , the support of ANTIFA members against our serving troops for one , and I can name many more .
Fair play Sunny Villa.
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Dave
that is unfair and incorrect their was substantial concerns made about this group made some of them put forward their views too forcefully and rightly banned .
I try to put my thoughts forward in a respectful manner , but as you know our support is many and diverse , this site represents a cross section of support , other websites do also , there are obvious conflicts of opinions as some of the inter site banter .
if I am a lone voice on here , so be it . but as a supporter for over 45 years , I can tell you honestly that this group concerns lots of long term Villa fans as much as the other stuff in the 70s
If you feel my point of view is not welcome , frankly that is your choice mate
It's strange, but of all the people I talk to on matchday and elsewhere, and of all the correspondence I receive, nobody has ever mentioned the political standpoint of Brigada 1874. And yet this behaviour apparently raises concern amongst 'lots' of supporters.
Dave
to be fair i can accept that as most supporters would be unaware of the concerns , the ones that are and once again there are many from my pals and others think the same as i do , i must admit some are more radical but ! for the most part they are rank and file Villa supporters i have known for decades.
go to the Social , The Eddies and elsewhere .
I am suprised that there is any support for a group that has caused more negative press for Aston Villa in 2 years than any of the so called firms .
primarily i admit the use of pyrotechnics ,
The walking out of the ground is laughable , if your mate is mug enough to get thrown out for breaking the rules i am not walking out , as you correctly said theIr actions could severely hamper the pro standing campaign championed by AVFC as well as lead to sections of the ground being shut by the council .
BUT HEY HO , I have an agenda , yes all for support and we can be up with the best , but a political agenda and harming what i honestly believe is the a real opportunity for ASTON VILLA to re-establish itself as a champion for the game .
I firmly believe this is the moment and this is the time , and i do not want any agendas to prevent us making this happen .
crack on !
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Fair play Sunny.
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Fair play my arse.
How many pages of utter garbage have I just had to wade through.
The only one with a political axe to grind is Sunny Villa, and it looks like a big fat right wing one to me.
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I've never seen any negative press, outside of this site, regarding Brigada. The only comments of heard from other fans makes reference to the noise made and the banners.
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I have never heard anybody mention Brigada outside the confines of this website.
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No hidden agendas from what I've seen so far.
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I'm still waiting to know what their politics are.
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I was under the impression that they formed to help build an atmosphere at Villa Park. I'm not aware of any other motives either.
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Why can you not accept politics and football should be kept separate , hooliganism was tribalism . is politics not the same under a different banner .
Because anti-racism and anti-fascism are not about poltics. They're about right and wrong.
As for the rest of your post, you've not bothered addressing any of the questions i put to you, beyond going on about Celtic and politics, which is largely irrelevant here.
And maybe the people who were talking about a Petrov benefit match weren't thinking about politics at all, they were thinking about charity?
I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in sectarian politics, zero. I don't care. I don't even like to see them discussed here, because it always ends up in a gigantic row which is exactly the same as the last row we had about them.
I am, however, able to see the difference between right and wrong when it comes to fascism and racism, and the "i just want to keep ALL politics out of football" is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to that.
These Brigada kids are about standing up, singing a lot and waving banners. It's not the sort of thing I'd be into at my age, but then again, how many 40 something men would be. You seem to have an agenda against them based on them feeling some sort of kinship with Celtic, which you've then spun out to mean that, actually, they're a bunch of British troop hating fenians (and yes, I've seen the banners at some Celtic matches, and I find them abhorrent, too).
Once again, it seems your main objection is to people whose politics might not tally with your own rather than some altruistic desire to keep politics out of football.
Thanks for your reply , I will try and respond as eloquently
Fascism and anti fascism is about beliefs , the right and wrong of those beliefs are in the eye of the beholder.
as I said I dislike both . as should everyone for the moment they enter AV .
Catholic and Protestants. Muslims and Jews what has that got to do with Football .
As for kids , are you sure ? without being rude do you sit by them , have you looked at the Videos , they are not young kids , but the ones getting banned from the ground for three years are.
plenty of 40 year olds in their ranks .
Ineherent contradiction surely.
You dislike racism, therefore you are anti-racsim. You can't dislike both.
That doesn't mean you are going to be anti-racist as part of a compounded far left viewpoint, whilst that is possible.
I think the reason this debate has rolled on a few pages is that people are are surprised at anyone taking issue at anti-racist banners. I just found out last night a friend I live with wouldn't be here, if his 7yo Gran hadn't been sent away out of Nazi Germany on a train full of Jewish children to the UK. The rest of the family left behind were murdered.
I *know* you aren't defending racism/fascism Sunny, but wouldn't there be a risk of politicising something that isn't so obviously political (whilst it might be part of some people's broader Ideology?) Or unhelpfully generalising some people's politics to a whole group of people?
At a time like the Syrian crisis, who'd be a politician? However, every act we take can be seen as a ethical and political act.
Do we buy fair trade coffee? I do, it doesn't make me a Marxist. Neither does wearing an anti-racist badge.
I'm anti-hate on any level, i take that a bit further than some, i won't even sing anti-Blues or any club songs, yet come away from a match with a croaky voice from getting behind the lads vociferously.
I once joined the Anti-Nazi League as a youngster - appreciated the pastor Niemölle poem - but then tore up my card when i found they sought to ban books - I'm more for the engage & discuss school of change, not making martyrs.
I have however fantasised about a fan led human rights or anti-racist or anti-homophobia/peaceful football fans/something group that made big patches we could adaptively design to cover over club sponsors we don't particularly want to promote a company on our shirts as fans.
Being alive is political.
Villa, Germany 1938. The day after the England game when our *national team* were reluctantly pressured into giving the salute, our boys apparently spontaneously after a match of bad atmosphere, refuse to give the Nazi salute, they draw a line (they are forced by diplomats to shift a few days later in Stuggart). Are they being political for not giving a Nazi Salute?
I think we probably all know the story, links here.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=46090.0
Barca, anti-Franco...
There was a great Football and fascism documentary on the beeb a few years back... Nazi Germany team, Munich Olympics, we could go on. Fascinating how it obviously is used as a tool by politicians...
I wasn't aware there was a law to keep politics, or indeed more correctly human rights out of football? There is a difference.
Your choice, not mine. Not my rules.
Me, i just stand up for what is right where i can. If it means challenging a fellow Villa fan for being racist or homophobic I've done it and will do it, e.g. shameful racist chanting from some very young Villa lads @WHL a few years back. Is that not allowed?
Incidentally I agree to a degree about breaking rules/laws.
I find it a much more radical idea to do the hard work to change rules ;)
Good luck to those in the long battle to secure safe standing...
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Great point about Villa in Germany '38. As a club, we nailed our colours to the mast that day, anybody saying we should not continue in that tradition, as fans, players or officials, is sullying the memory of that marvellous gesture.
Congratulations though, to sunny villa and his acolytes: you have posted without doubt the biggest crock of absolute shit I have ever read on H&V, and I've read some of the conspiracy thread.
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Link to their site (http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/)
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Following a meeting of like minded Villa supporters on the 14th August an Aston Villa ultras group was formed, the name of this group is Brigada 1874. The group is composed of those who bleed claret and blue and want to bring colour, vibrancy, noise and passion to the terraces.
In the modern game where many a good supporter has been pushed away from the ground by high ticket prices and draconian policing while those who remain are often subject to over zealous stewarding we want to take something back for those who make the game what it is. We aim to follow in the tradition of ultra groups in Europe and learn from the example made by the handful of ultra groups who've been active in the UK over the past few years.
The group is currently in it's embryonic stages and the next few months will be spent setting the foundations of the group, designing displays and making banners and flags. Owing to the fact that those involved are based in various areas of Villa Park our first appearances this season are likely to be at away games.
The group is based upon five basic principles, these are;
-We support the players for the entirety of the game no matter how well or poorly we are playing.
-We stand throughout the game
-We make as much noise and create as big a scene as possible on the terraces.
-We are anti-fascist, anti-racist and non-sectarian. Those who promote division based upon ethnicity, religion or nationality will not be tolerated in the group.
-We act in unsion as a group, while we may have differences of opinion on some issues regarding the club we will always act in unity and back one another up at the game.
Those who are interested in getting involved with the group can contact us here via pm or email us at brigada1874 @ gmail . com. Prospective members should agree with the founding principles and bring that spirit into the group. All potential members will be vetted.
Read more: http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/thread/618/who#ixzz2dRfQQ43h
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Fascism and anti fascism is about beliefs , the right and wrong of those beliefs are in the eye of the beholder.
as I said I dislike both . as should everyone for the moment they enter AV .
You dislike anti-fascism and fascism? What about racism and anti-racism.
And why on earth should people drop their beliefs when they walk into a football ground? We're supposed to spurn anti-racists because we're at Villa Park?
Why do you seem less willing to spurn your views re Brigada's links with Celtic's ultras (which I am imagining goes about as deep as a link on their website) when you enter Villa Park yourself?
If it's alright with you, I'll stay anti-fascist and anti-racist when i attend matches, just as I am sure you don't become Ban-Ki Moon on the subject of sectarianism when you attend.
As Percy said, congratulations, though, the last few pages of this thread truly have delivered some of the most nonsensical guff I've ever read on this site.
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[quote author=pauliewalnuts link=topic=50457.msg2415834#msg2415834 date=1377857451
As Percy said, congratulations, though, the last few pages of this thread truly have delivered some of the most nonsensical guff I've ever read on this site.
[/quote]Seconded - and it takes something gargantuan to have achieved that.
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Link to their site (http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/)
wow, now if any website needed some guidance on the use of colours its that one!
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Congratulations though, to sunny villa and his acolytes: you have posted without doubt the biggest crock of absolute shit I have ever read on H&V, and I've read some of the conspiracy thread.
Amen, brother.
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Link to their site (http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/)
wow, now if any website needed some guidance on the use of colours its that one!
Damn you, I felt the need to click it and see for myself after your comment and now the whole world has turned blue and there's blood running from my eyes!
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I'm still waiting to know what their politics are.
Usual reds under the beds twaddle from the usual suspects.
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Link to their site (http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/)
wow, now if any website needed some guidance on the use of colours its that one!
Ouch!
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Was sat right by them this evening.
They were no problem at all.
I can only think that there's previous history
Maybe i should not say this, but, i am going to. Previous history there is, and lots of it from what i have learned from reliable people inside the VP security. Threatening letters sent to Stewards and their families from certain people connected with Brigada may not help the situation. Also letters sent to the Club by the same people defying all HSE rules to the point where " We will stand when we want to stand and we will unfurl banners when we want to" type stuff. Doesn't really help them does it. Before anybody umps and says " Prove it, " Contact the Club Security and they will be more than willing to discuss the situation, from what i understand. We all want a good atmosphere at VP, banners , flags, singing, standing, but please do it in the right way. Sending threatening letters is just bloody stupid. Just do what you do, but obey the rules of the club. Not that hard , is it ?
The above is complete and utter, unequivocal nonsense.
Do you really think that people involved in Brigada 1874 would send threatening letters to the club, stewards and their families? Presumably we signed these letters off with a Brigada stamp and a home address? What do you take us for? A bunch of knuckle dragging neaderthals? I really don't know who in the club, if anybody, has given you this information, but it's complete crap.
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I cant work out If I want to be in the Peoples Front of Judea, or the Judean Peoples Front
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Was sat right by them this evening.
They were no problem at all.
I can only think that there's previous history
Maybe i should not say this, but, i am going to. Previous history there is, and lots of it from what i have learned from reliable people inside the VP security. Threatening letters sent to Stewards and their families from certain people connected with Brigada may not help the situation. Also letters sent to the Club by the same people defying all HSE rules to the point where " We will stand when we want to stand and we will unfurl banners when we want to" type stuff. Doesn't really help them does it. Before anybody umps and says " Prove it, " Contact the Club Security and they will be more than willing to discuss the situation, from what i understand. We all want a good atmosphere at VP, banners , flags, singing, standing, but please do it in the right way. Sending threatening letters is just bloody stupid. Just do what you do, but obey the rules of the club. Not that hard , is it ?
The above is complete and utter, unequivocal nonsense.
Do you really think that people involved in Brigada 1874 would send threatening letters to the club, stewards and their families? Presumably we signed these letters off with a Brigada stamp and a home address? What do you take us for? A bunch of knuckle dragging neaderthals? I really don't know who in the club, if anybody, has given you this information, but it's complete crap.
This thread is becoming one of the most detached from reality threads I have had the honour to read on H&V. And there have been some real doozies. From what I have seen of the Brigada they are a bunch of kids who have a lot more energy than me fro jumping around and singing. I know Dan invites us to ring Club Security (use of capitals for gravitas) but I very much doubt they would while away the afternoon talking about presumably anonymous letters sent to stewards and their families. It was at this point I began to wonder if someone had slipped something into my bottle of water. I can only dread/imagine where this thread will go from here. As for being against fascism and anti-facism, that makes my head hurt but I am somehow drawn back to read it again and again. Dan you should have stopped after the first 6 words of your post
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Not that I condone fascism, or any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus.
- F. Bueller.
I think that really adds to the debate.
Well, *this* debate, anyway.
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Jesus, this thread is getting really, really silly.
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Was sat right by them this evening.
They were no problem at all.
I can only think that there's previous history
Maybe i should not say this, but, i am going to. Previous history there is, and lots of it from what i have learned from reliable people inside the VP security. Threatening letters sent to Stewards and their families from certain people connected with Brigada may not help the situation. Also letters sent to the Club by the same people defying all HSE rules to the point where " We will stand when we want to stand and we will unfurl banners when we want to" type stuff. Doesn't really help them does it. Before anybody umps and says " Prove it, " Contact the Club Security and they will be more than willing to discuss the situation, from what i understand. We all want a good atmosphere at VP, banners , flags, singing, standing, but please do it in the right way. Sending threatening letters is just bloody stupid. Just do what you do, but obey the rules of the club. Not that hard , is it ?
The above is complete and utter, unequivocal nonsense.
It would save us a lot of time if this was Dan's sig. He's the type of bloke you see in the pub and tell ridiculous theories to for a laugh. Stuff like 'the Berlin Wall was built to keep Westerners out' or 'David Cameron can't read or write '. Next day he 's telling everyone.
You'll get used to him if you visit off topic more often.
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As for Sunny being against fascism and anti-fascism, I think he might have discovered the secret of perpetual motion.
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Brilliant Percy.
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Can I just check something? Wasn't this Brigada thing all started up to create SOME atmos inside the ground, rather than AN atmos? Either way, it's all getting beyond a joke now.
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I was under the impression that they formed to help build an atmosphere at Villa Park. I'm not aware of any other motives either.
Me too.
100%
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Brilliant Percy.
Cheers Lee, I make it all up myself y'know.
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Oh how they laughed , dare challenge the might of H&V knowledge and wisdom silly me .
It will end in tears .
laughing at you whilst a Jam song reverberates in my head ,
Thought you were clever when you lift the fuse,
Tore down the house of commons in your brand new shoes,
Composed a revolutionary symphony,
Then went to bed with a charming young thing.
Hello-hurrah - cheers then mate - it's the Eton Rifles,
Hello-hurrah - an extremist scrape - with the Eton Rifles.
What a catalyst you turned out to be,
Loaded the guns then you run off home for your tea,
Left me standing - like a guilty schoolboy.
We came out of it naturally the worst,
Beaten and bloody and I was sick down my shirt,
We were no match for their untamed wit,
Though some of the lads said they'll be back next week
as i said before birds of a feather flock together .
Happy Days
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Dan can you ask your insider how the brigada got the addresses of the stewards as I can't find any online.Ta.
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Oh how they laughed , dare challenge the might of H&V knowledge and wisdom silly me .
It will end in tears .
laughing at you whilst a Jam song reverberates in my head ,
Thought you were clever when you lift the fuse,
Tore down the house of commons in your brand new shoes,
Composed a revolutionary symphony,
Then went to bed with a charming young thing.
Hello-hurrah - cheers then mate - it's the Eton Rifles,
Hello-hurrah - an extremist scrape - with the Eton Rifles.
What a catalyst you turned out to be,
Loaded the guns then you run off home for your tea,
Left me standing - like a guilty schoolboy.
We came out of it naturally the worst,
Beaten and bloody and I was sick down my shirt,
We were no match for their untamed wit,
Though some of the lads said they'll be back next week
as i said before birds of a feather flock together .
Happy Days
Crikey Sunny, Half the stuff that you've been posting seems like a load of old tosh and the other half, I haven't got a clue what you're banging on about. This last post of yours fits into both those categories.
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Oh how they laughed , dare challenge the might of H&V knowledge and wisdom silly me .
It will end in tears .
laughing at you whilst a Jam song reverberates in my head ,
Thought you were clever when you lift the fuse,
Tore down the house of commons in your brand new shoes,
Composed a revolutionary symphony,
Then went to bed with a charming young thing.
Hello-hurrah - cheers then mate - it's the Eton Rifles,
Hello-hurrah - an extremist scrape - with the Eton Rifles.
What a catalyst you turned out to be,
Loaded the guns then you run off home for your tea,
Left me standing - like a guilty schoolboy.
We came out of it naturally the worst,
Beaten and bloody and I was sick down my shirt,
We were no match for their untamed wit,
Though some of the lads said they'll be back next week
as i said before birds of a feather flock together .
Happy Days
As a big Jam fan do you mind if I ask you not to drag them into whatever ridiculous point it is you're trying to make because I'm fucked if I know.
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Err yeah, you lost me there Sunny. I would walk away from this one :)
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I cant work out If I want to be in the Peoples Front of Judea, or the Judean Peoples Front
SPLITTER!
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I cant work out If I want to be in the Peoples Front of Judea, or the Judean Peoples Front
Splitters.
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I cant work out If I want to be in the Peoples Front of Judea, or the Judean Peoples Front
I think you should just be in front of the Judean People...and all other people!
It will pay off when we get to the January sales!
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PFJ or JPF?
I thought we were all individuals?
I've had a season ticket for the Holte since '78 and this is the first time I've think 'heard' of Brigada.
If I've noticed them before I must have just buried the knowledge in my sub-conscious.
After reading this er...stupefying thread I realise who they are now and thanks to their eye-melting site
I think I get what they're for.
Maybe when I was young I might have joined them, but now it's a little late and back then we didn't 'need' them.
Each to their own and thanks for the noise chaps.
The rest of it ? Reminds me of Gay Whales Against Racism.
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Oh how they laughed , dare challenge the might of H&V knowledge and wisdom silly me .
It will end in tears .
laughing at you whilst a Jam song reverberates in my head ,
Thought you were clever when you lift the fuse,
Tore down the house of commons in your brand new shoes,
Composed a revolutionary symphony,
Then went to bed with a charming young thing.
Hello-hurrah - cheers then mate - it's the Eton Rifles,
Hello-hurrah - an extremist scrape - with the Eton Rifles.
What a catalyst you turned out to be,
Loaded the guns then you run off home for your tea,
Left me standing - like a guilty schoolboy.
We came out of it naturally the worst,
Beaten and bloody and I was sick down my shirt,
We were no match for their untamed wit,
Though some of the lads said they'll be back next week
as i said before birds of a feather flock together .
Happy Days
Yeah, wow! I'm thinking of a Jam song too!
Billy Hunt.
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I cant work out If I want to be in the Peoples Front of Judea, or the Judean Peoples Front
Splitters.
All well and good joking now but your previous post included some pretty heavy accusations against the Brigida lads. I know and you know that no staff have ever been threatened by any members of Brigida 1874
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Perhaps Sunny Villa will follow his own advice and stop posting highly political material on this link.
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I cant work out If I want to be in the Peoples Front of Judea, or the Judean Peoples Front
Splitters.
CMON Chap , make sure you get the right fella !
All well and good joking now but your previous post included some pretty heavy accusations against the Brigida lads. I know and you know that no staff have ever been threatened by any members of Brigida 1874
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Perhaps Sunny Villa will follow his own advice and stop posting highly political material on this link.
Tell me where young sherlock ! in obeyance and waiting
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Oh how they laughed , dare challenge the might of H&V knowledge and wisdom silly me .
It will end in tears .
laughing at you whilst a Jam song reverberates in my head ,
Thought you were clever when you lift the fuse,
Tore down the house of commons in your brand new shoes,
Composed a revolutionary symphony,
Then went to bed with a charming young thing.
Hello-hurrah - cheers then mate - it's the Eton Rifles,
Hello-hurrah - an extremist scrape - with the Eton Rifles.
What a catalyst you turned out to be,
Loaded the guns then you run off home for your tea,
Left me standing - like a guilty schoolboy.
We came out of it naturally the worst,
Beaten and bloody and I was sick down my shirt,
We were no match for their untamed wit,
Though some of the lads said they'll be back next week
as i said before birds of a feather flock together .
Happy Days
Yeah, wow! I'm thinking of a Jam song too!
Billy Hunt.
Smart , how about Tears for Fears Change , or is it peaceful hooligan .
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You don't really get it, do you?
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PFJ or JPF?
I thought we were all individuals?
I've had a season ticket for the Holte since '78 and this is the first time I've think 'heard' of Brigada.
If I've noticed them before I must have just buried the knowledge in my sub-conscious.
After reading this er...stupefying thread I realise who they are now and thanks to their eye-melting site
I think I get what they're for.
Maybe when I was young I might have joined them, but now it's a little late and back then we didn't 'need' them.
Each to their own and thanks for the noise chaps.
The rest of it ? Reminds me of Gay Whales Against Racism.
Have to say I had never heard of this group till after Wednesday either, but the main thing is our football club. People have their views and others will disagree, just dont let it get personal.
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You don't really get it, do you?
Maybe not , i have no agenda , but i beleive i still have a right to an opinion ! sorry if it does not conform to the H&V MASSES , i am sure they , if they wish , do as they wish .
Polotics and Football have no place .
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So are you against Polos and tic tacs down the Villa now? Mintist!
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So are you against Polos and and tic tacs down the Villa now? Mintist!
Foxes glacier mint hater!
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just to clarify , one mans bread is anothers butter , i am against people who are extreme on the whole spectrum , sorry but my beleifs are my family and good moral values , i will not gender or otherwise based upon creed religion or race ,
As for Sunny being against fascism and anti-fascism, I think he might have discovered the secret of perpetual motion.
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So are you against Polos and tic tacs down the Villa now? Mintist!
absolutely , why not black jacks and licorice .
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It seems to me Villa take a position that is very supportive of the British troops so if Brigada had any kind of agenda that is against that position we'd have heard about it before now?
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Surely this brigada thing are not anti British troops?
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Of course they arent. They just have contact with Celtics Green Brigade who made arses of themselves about the Poppy appeal the other year. Between Dan and Sunny there are some mystifying things on this thread.
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just to clarify , one mans bread is anothers butter
Well that's a load of shit that doesn't mean anything. Thanks for clearing that up.
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just to clarify , one mans bread is anothers butter
Well that's a load of shit that doesn't mean anything. Thanks for clearing that up.
Well thanks but it's too late now, I've been trying to spread my bread onto two thick slices of butter for over an hour, and now I look like I'm ready to swim the channel.
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just to clarify , one mans bread is anothers butter
Well that's a load of shit that doesn't mean anything. Thanks for clearing that up.
Well thanks but it's too late now, I've been trying to spread my bread onto two thick slices of butter for over an hour, and now I look like I'm ready to swim the channel.
You're probably one of those men for whom bread is actually bread, and butter is, bizarrely, butter. Good luck with the swim. Is it for Acorns? I love acorns, they are my conkas.
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I say channel, I'm actually going to Chelmsley baths.
But one mans swimming bath is another mans open water, as they say.
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I say channel, I'm actually going to Chelmsley baths.
But one mans swimming bath is another mans open water, as they say.
That's why I love it in here. It's one of the few places you hear anybody talking any bloody sense.
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Surely this brigada thing are not anti British troops?
Someone on Facebook claimed Brigada were funding the IRA, the internet gives a voice to people that shouldn't be heard!
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So Sunny wants to get rid of things he views as political due to his extreme and intolerant views. Sunny, are you going to ban yourself from attending Villa Park?!
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Brigada have links to the Gay Mafia and al Qaeda.
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Surely this brigada thing are not anti British troops?
Someone on Facebook claimed Brigada were funding the IRA, the internet gives a voice to people that shouldn't be heard!
Brigada are McDonalds?
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Surely this brigada thing are not anti British troops?
Surely this brigada thing are not anti British troops?
Someone on Facebook claimed Brigada were funding the IRA, the internet gives a voice to people that shouldn't be heard!
Brigada are McDonalds?
Someone on Facebook claimed Brigada were funding the IRA, the internet gives a voice to people that shouldn't be heard!
Brigada are McDonalds?
Afraid so!
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Oh how they laughed , dare challenge the might of H&V knowledge and wisdom silly me .
It will end in tears .
laughing at you whilst a Jam song reverberates in my head ,
Thought you were clever when you lift the fuse,
Tore down the house of commons in your brand new shoes,
Composed a revolutionary symphony,
Then went to bed with a charming young thing.
Hello-hurrah - cheers then mate - it's the Eton Rifles,
Hello-hurrah - an extremist scrape - with the Eton Rifles.
What a catalyst you turned out to be,
Loaded the guns then you run off home for your tea,
Left me standing - like a guilty schoolboy.
We came out of it naturally the worst,
Beaten and bloody and I was sick down my shirt,
We were no match for their untamed wit,
Though some of the lads said they'll be back next week
as i said before birds of a feather flock together .
Happy Days
Yeah, wow! I'm thinking of a Jam song too!
Billy Hunt.
Smart
Thanks, I thought so too.
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just to clarify , one mans bread is anothers butter , i am against people who are extreme on the whole spectrum , sorry but my beleifs are my family and good moral values , i will not gender or otherwise based upon creed religion or race
SUnny can you please explain to us how the above is anything other than a political opinion which you have enmeshed into a conversation about football whilst simultaneously arguing that political opinions have no place in football. I'm really eager to see how you resolve yourself to allowing your political opinion to lead you to believe that politics has no place in football without realising that you're a massive hypocrite.
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Lads who had tickets taken off them on Wednesday night now blocked from buying tickets home or away.
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Lads who had tickets taken off them on Wednesday night now blocked from buying tickets home or away.
Really disgusted in that if true. This club sure knows how to shoot itself in the foot on a regular basis. Ridiculous treatment of the fanbase.
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Lads who had tickets taken off them on Wednesday night now blocked from buying tickets home or away.
Really disgusted in that if true. This club sure knows how to shoot itself in the foot on a regular basis. Ridiculous treatment of the fanbase.
Definitely true got a text earlier, stupid to hand over the tickets but completely out of order from the club!
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Lads who had tickets taken off them on Wednesday night now blocked from buying tickets home or away.
If this is the case the club needs to make a very clear statement about it, explaining precisely why the guys were ejected and this latest action taken against them....for standing!!!???
Thousands of us stand at VP; it follows that we will all be ejected. Which we know won't happen, so why pick these guys out?
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Perhaps there's more to it?
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A couple of fans who enquired about ticket availability for Hull have been told that they are blocked from buying tickets to games as a result of standing at the Rotherham game, they've been told that someone from Villa will call them on Monday to give them further information. Frankly this is a disgrace.
The group have released a statement on their website, if you can tolerate the colours then please read.
http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/thread/1149/sit-group-statement-on-rotherham (http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/thread/1149/sit-group-statement-on-rotherham)
I'd urge anyone who feels passionately about this to get in contact with the club.
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Perhaps there's more to it?
There is.
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Perhaps there's more to it?
I know the lads personally it was only for persistent standing no warnings previously.
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Perhaps there's more to it?
Very probably Leeg.
Has there been any of this reported in the press; any reasons given for them being chucked out?
If it's just for standing then it's bonkers!
If it's more serious than that (??!!??) we still need to know, surely?
I don't want to be chucked out of the Newcastle game for being loud and enthusiastic! :D
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The stewards stated to me that it was because 'they won't sit down'. Those of us who stand in the wider sense will tend to sit when asked to , as long as no one is standing in front of us blocking our view. Then we probably stand up again a few moments later. The Brigada lads simply refuse to sit. Sadly, this does leave the stewards with nowhere to go - they do have to enforce ground regs. There is no more to it. I am shocked they are effectively banned without notice tho. - surely the ejection as a warning is more than adequate.
I have already been in touch with the club about my feelings on how this was handled & they say security are getting back to me. Please get in touch with Villa - yes ground legs sadly do have to be enforced, but where is the notion of reasonableness?
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Yeah it does seem heavy handed, but reasonableness is a two-way street. The club seem to be doing everything in their power to try and get safe standing introduced, but until this happens they have to follow the rules. This isn't a case of poor put-upon innocents being persecuted, this group go out of their way to break the rules, so as much as I want standing at matches, they can hardly claim to be surprised if they are ejected.
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Perhaps there's more to it?
I'm sure there is.
I don't see the club taking this action without having reason. What I find a little strange is the decision to ban them from away games also?
Have they evidence that the persons involved also stand up at other grounds?
Some serious surveillance work there if true.
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Yeah it does seem heavy handed, but reasonableness is a two-way street. The club seem to be doing everything in their power to try and get safe standing introduced, but until this happens they have to follow the rules. This isn't a case of poor put-upon innocents being persecuted, this group go out of their way to break the rules, so as much as I want standing at matches, they can hardly claim to be surprised if they are ejected.
If the club is doing everything in its power then surely they should tell us that that's what they are trying to do so that we can take that into account and respond in a positive, co-operative way.
Chucking fans out and blocking them from buying tickets seems to be a ridiculously heavy-handed way of dealing with a very minor problem, imho.
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Perhaps there's more to it?
I'm sure there is.
I don't see the club taking this action without having reason. What I find a little strange is the decision to ban them from away games also?
Have they evidence that the persons involved also stand up at other grounds?
Some serious surveillance work there if true.
The vast majority of away fans stand don't they?
Can't remember the last time I sat in my seat at an away game while the game was being played.
It's the inconsistency of the situation that is baffling for me.
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The club has evidence that it was Brigada involved in the Syrian chemical attack.
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2 seasons ago the Brigada lads were in the lower north and we owe them a lot of credit for adding some atmosphere and originality to that area of the ground. Even back then the stewards were singling them out and regularlyl throwing them out early. Absolutely disgusting from the club. These are lads who are die hard loyal fans who cause no trouble other than to come to games and enthusiastically back the team with great noise and songs. Woeful from the club indeed.
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Yeah it does seem heavy handed, but reasonableness is a two-way street. The club seem to be doing everything in their power to try and get safe standing introduced, but until this happens they have to follow the rules. This isn't a case of poor put-upon innocents being persecuted, this group go out of their way to break the rules, so as much as I want standing at matches, they can hardly claim to be surprised if they are ejected.
If the club is doing everything in its power then surely they should tell us that that's what they are trying to do so that we can take that into account and respond in a positive, co-operative way.
Chucking fans out and blocking them from buying tickets seems to be a ridiculously heavy-handed way of dealing with a very minor problem, imho.
It's not a minor problem if the council have, say, threatened stand closures though (and it appears to be an issue being brought up by the council rather than the club). Also my understanding is that stewards have asked them to sit down repeatedly at numerous matches, and they have refused. What other option do they have if they are under pressure from the council to act?
Also, we don't know at this stage if they've been permanently banned from attending, or whether they are waiting to speak to them all directly to discuss this issue prior to allowing them to buy tickets again (assuming they give assurances regarding their behaviour).
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They are standing up to clap and sing. It's quite difficult to do that as a group sitting down.
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Yeah it does seem heavy handed, but reasonableness is a two-way street. The club seem to be doing everything in their power to try and get safe standing introduced, but until this happens they have to follow the rules. This isn't a case of poor put-upon innocents being persecuted, this group go out of their way to break the rules, so as much as I want standing at matches, they can hardly claim to be surprised if they are ejected.
If the club is doing everything in its power then surely they should tell us that that's what they are trying to do so that we can take that into account and respond in a positive, co-operative way.
Chucking fans out and blocking them from buying tickets seems to be a ridiculously heavy-handed way of dealing with a very minor problem, imho.
It's not a minor problem if the council have, say, threatened stand closures though (and it appears to be an issue being brought up by the council rather than the club). Also my understanding is that stewards have asked them to sit down repeatedly at numerous matches, and they have refused. What other option do they have if they are under pressure from the council to act?
Also, we don't know at this stage if they've been permanently banned from attending, or whether they are waiting to speak to them all directly to discuss this issue prior to allowing them to buy tickets again (assuming they give assurances regarding their behaviour).
Agreed by and large Ger, but as I say, if that is the case then the club need to inform us of the council's apparently stronger line on fans standing if stand/ground closure is the punishment.
We all know standing is against the rules but thousands do it every week and no-one bats an eyelid.
A bit like elbows and hadballs, a bit of consistency would be greatly appreciated from those in charge of these things.
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2 seasons ago the Brigada lads were in the lower north and we owe them a lot of credit for adding some atmosphere and originality to that area of the ground. Even back then the stewards were singling them out and regularlyl throwing them out early. Absolutely disgusting from the club. These are lads who are die hard loyal fans who cause no trouble other than to come to games and enthusiastically back the team with great noise and songs. Woeful from the club indeed.
What would you say if your part of the ground was closed? Would that be the club's fault as well?
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2 seasons ago the Brigada lads were in the lower north and we owe them a lot of credit for adding some atmosphere and originality to that area of the ground. Even back then the stewards were singling them out and regularlyl throwing them out early. Absolutely disgusting from the club. These are lads who are die hard loyal fans who cause no trouble other than to come to games and enthusiastically back the team with great noise and songs. Woeful from the club indeed.
What would you say if your part of the ground was closed? Would that be the club's fault as well?
How will you feel when everyone is forced to sit in silence ?
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That's hardly likely though, is it?
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2 seasons ago the Brigada lads were in the lower north and we owe them a lot of credit for adding some atmosphere and originality to that area of the ground. Even back then the stewards were singling them out and regularlyl throwing them out early. Absolutely disgusting from the club. These are lads who are die hard loyal fans who cause no trouble other than to come to games and enthusiastically back the team with great noise and songs. Woeful from the club indeed.
What would you say if your part of the ground was closed? Would that be the club's fault as well?
How will you feel when everyone is forced to sit in silence ?
How is the club forcing people to sit in silence............
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2 seasons ago the Brigada lads were in the lower north and we owe them a lot of credit for adding some atmosphere and originality to that area of the ground. Even back then the stewards were singling them out and regularlyl throwing them out early. Absolutely disgusting from the club. These are lads who are die hard loyal fans who cause no trouble other than to come to games and enthusiastically back the team with great noise and songs. Woeful from the club indeed.
What would you say if your part of the ground was closed? Would that be the club's fault as well?
How will you feel when everyone is forced to sit in silence ?
Nobody is being asked, or forced, to sit in silence. There are no regulations covering such matters. Given that there are regulations covering standing I ask you again:
What would you say if your part of the ground was closed? And who would you then blame?
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Singing whilst seated, really ??
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Singing whilst seated, really ??
So you can only sing when you stand up.............
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Singing whilst seated, really ??
After years in the Holte End, the most surprising thing for me about moving into the DE stand and now the Trinity, is the lack of active support for the team from the majority of supporters.
Only at the Sunderland game last season did I witness tangible enthusiastic support in the form of singing, and only once we were 3 or 4 goals up.
The best thing about our away support is that the vast majority sing their hearts out and create a great sense of unity and support for the team...and always satanding.
Pretty much what the Brigada lads seem to have been kicked out for, ironically.
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I'm convinced there is more to it than just standing against Rotherham. I've had to stand in the Lower Holte and North numerous times and have never seen anyone kicked out just for standing.
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I didn't know it was impossible to sing while sitting down. Quick! Somebody break Bono's legs.
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You only sing when you're seated, sing when you're seated...
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Stand up, if you got thrown out, stand up, if you got thrown out.
Too soon?
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Stand up, if you got thrown out, stand up, if you got thrown out.
Too soon?
This is quite funny PWS!
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Empty seats, My Lord...
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Oh sit down, oh sit down, oh sit down
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Yeah it does seem heavy handed, but reasonableness is a two-way street. The club seem to be doing everything in their power to try and get safe standing introduced, but until this happens they have to follow the rules. This isn't a case of poor put-upon innocents being persecuted, this group go out of their way to break the rules, so as much as I want standing at matches, they can hardly claim to be surprised if they are ejected.
If the club is doing everything in its power then surely they should tell us that that's what they are trying to do so that we can take that into account and respond in a positive, co-operative way.
Chucking fans out and blocking them from buying tickets seems to be a ridiculously heavy-handed way of dealing with a very minor problem, imho.
It's not a minor problem if the council have, say, threatened stand closures though (and it appears to be an issue being brought up by the council rather than the club). Also my understanding is that stewards have asked them to sit down repeatedly at numerous matches, and they have refused. What other option do they have if they are under pressure from the council to act?
Also, we don't know at this stage if they've been permanently banned from attending, or whether they are waiting to speak to them all directly to discuss this issue prior to allowing them to buy tickets again (assuming they give assurances regarding their behaviour).
Agreed by and large Ger, but as I say, if that is the case then the club need to inform us of the council's apparently stronger line on fans standing if stand/ground closure is the punishment.
We all know standing is against the rules but thousands do it every week and no-one bats an eyelid.
A bit like elbows and hadballs, a bit of consistency would be greatly appreciated from those in charge of these things.
Yeah that's a fair enough point.
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Perhaps there's more to it?
There is.
There is nothing "more" to this other than standing at football matches.
First they came for those that stand,
and I didn't speak out because I didn't stand.
Then they came for the singers,
and I didn't speak out because I didn't sing.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
etc etc
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There are sections of the Lower North and other sections of The Holte that always stand and i've never seen anyone thrown out just for standing. I'll stick to thinking there is likely to be more to it than just standing at a game against Rotherham.
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While not wanting to enter the politics slant of this thread I have to say I was surprised to find that, after moving my ST to the Upper Holte, I had to stand for 80 of the 90 minutes of the Pool match. It seems to be de rigeur to stand and there was no intervention from stewards.
Out of sight out of mind?
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Perhaps there's more to it?
There is.
There is nothing "more" to this other than standing at football matches.
First they came for those that stand,
and I didn't speak out because I didn't stand.
Then they came for the singers,
and I didn't speak out because I didn't sing.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
etc etc
Believe me or don't, I'm not fussed.
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While not wanting to enter the politics slant of this thread I have to say I was surprised to find that, after moving my ST to the Upper Holte, I had to stand for 80 of the 90 minutes of the Pool match. It seems to be de rigeur to stand and there was no intervention from stewards.
Out of sight out of mind?
I stood in the Holte End for years - never a problem.
My seat in the Trinity Middle is on the back row - Shock horror! - I stood for the whole of the 2nd half against 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. Not a word from the steward who stood in the aisle 4 seats away.
So, yes, Out of sight out of mind, or as DW suggests, there must be more to it!?
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When EVERYONE is standing there is little they can do. On Wednesday there was a small enough crowd to isolate Brigada as persistent standers. Unlike other standers, Brigada refuse to sit when requested. They got them. Still I am gobsmacked by the heavy handedness of it..
The truth is that we need to properly pursue the club's interest in legal standing. The club need to know that this is what we want and sadly, just standing regardless won't cut it.
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I'm guessing that the powers that be have singled out this particular group do to the past disagreements with some of the banners. The standing (as loads of people seem to do without being told to sit), has given the club the opportunity to go after this small but seemingly good natured group of supporters. Perish the thought that anyone should try to create an atmosphere.
Buy some lurid sweatshop nylon, a turd burger and a plastic glass full of piss then sit down, shut up and enjoy the product. Then clap the assorted bunch of mercenaries off the pitch but don't dare have a banner that's remotely critical of the way the best league in the world is run or financed.
As a second point. If it is connected with the council, is there any council anywhere in the country that has closed sections of any ground due to fans standing? Why BCC should have such an axe to grind with 30 odd lads in a far corner of the Holte is an odd one to me.
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There was a small group stood up in the Lower North in block R1. They and a small group towards the back of R2 and R3 always stand up, half of the Upper Holte stands up the whole game. It simply isn't just because of Rotherham
When they 1st came onto the scene, weren't the club worried because a video involving them and a flare?
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When EVERYONE is standing there is little they can do. On Wednesday there was a small enough crowd to isolate Brigada as persistent standers. Unlike other standers, Brigada refuse to sit when requested. They got them. Still I am gobsmacked by the heavy handedness of it..
The truth is that we need to properly pursue the club's interest in legal standing. The club need to know that this is what we want and sadly, just standing regardless won't cut it.
Bloody good point amfy!
Then the club need to share with us their plans to acquire legal standing and how we can play our part in achieving that.
Saying nothing and then picking out this particular section of fans for doing something that thousands of others do in the same venue at the same time makes no sense.
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When EVERYONE is standing there is little they can do. On Wednesday there was a small enough crowd to isolate Brigada as persistent standers. Unlike other standers, Brigada refuse to sit when requested. They got them. Still I am gobsmacked by the heavy handedness of it..
The truth is that we need to properly pursue the club's interest in legal standing. The club need to know that this is what we want and sadly, just standing regardless won't cut it.
Bloody good point amfy!
Then the club need to share with us their plans to acquire legal standing and how we can play our part in achieving that.
Saying nothing and then picking out this particular section of fans for doing something that thousands of others do in the same venue at the same time makes no sense.
How many thousands out of the 42,000 that were at the Liverpool game last week stood for the whole 90 minutes last week do you reckon - not including the 3,300 Liverpool fans and where were they standing
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Banning Brigada stinks. The club have let themselves down again, not for the first time in the last few weeks.
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When EVERYONE is standing there is little they can do. On Wednesday there was a small enough crowd to isolate Brigada as persistent standers. Unlike other standers, Brigada refuse to sit when requested. They got them. Still I am gobsmacked by the heavy handedness of it..
The truth is that we need to properly pursue the club's interest in legal standing. The club need to know that this is what we want and sadly, just standing regardless won't cut it.
Bloody good point amfy!
Then the club need to share with us their plans to acquire legal standing and how we can play our part in achieving that.
Saying nothing and then picking out this particular section of fans for doing something that thousands of others do in the same venue at the same time makes no sense.
How many thousands out of the 42,000 that were at the Liverpool game last week stood for the whole 90 minutes last week do you reckon - not including the 3,300 Liverpool fans and where were they standing
Good number of the Lower North and the Upper Holte - no idea what that adds up to in numbers.
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Banning Brigada stinks. The club have let themselves down again, not for the first time in the last few weeks.
How can you say that it stinks when no one knows actual reason they were banned? Does it still stink if the bans are justified?
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Banning Brigada stinks. The club have let themselves down again, not for the first time in the last few weeks.
How can you say that it stinks when no one knows actual reason they were banned? Does it still stink if the bans are justified?
I have already clarified that point, It WAS for standing, and if any one has any FACTS to add to this discussion re why these fans are now excluded from buying away tickets please do.
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Banning Brigada stinks. The club have let themselves down again, not for the first time in the last few weeks.
How can you say that it stinks when no one knows actual reason they were banned? Does it still stink if the bans are justified?
I have already clarified that point, It WAS for standing, and if any one has any FACTS to add to this discussion re why these fans are now excluded from buying away tickets please do.
And i've said I believe it to be for more than just standing.
And no, you haven't clarified with any facts at all. "There is nothing "more" to this other than standing at football matches." is hardly conclusive proof.
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Banning Brigada stinks. The club have let themselves down again, not for the first time in the last few weeks.
How can you say that it stinks when no one knows actual reason they were banned? Does it still stink if the bans are justified?
I have already clarified that point, It WAS for standing, and if any one has any FACTS to add to this discussion re why these fans are now excluded from buying away tickets please do.
Saying "That's what I think" is not clarifying a point.
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Banning Brigada stinks. The club have let themselves down again, not for the first time in the last few weeks.
Either answer the question I asked you or change the record please.
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I was there, I saw and heard what happened, I didn't THINK it was for standing, I KNOW it was ! They were ejected for standing as I witnessed it first hand. They have now been excluded from buying away tickets at this moment in time which suggests it is a ban put in place for standing. I know the persons it affects and I can honestly say they are not or have been involved in anything other than supporting AVFC.
Is that better/clearer/understandable ?
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No. NEEDS MORE CAPITAL LETTERS.
FACT.
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I was there, I saw and heard what happened, I didn't THINK it was for standing, I KNOW it was ! They were ejected for standing as I witnessed it first hand. They have now been excluded from buying away tickets at this moment in time which suggests it is a ban put in place for standing. I know the persons it affects and I can honestly say they are not or have been involved in anything other than supporting AVFC.
Is that better/clearer/understandable ?
You know what you saw. Are you aware of anything else that happened before or after? I say that because years of experience has taught me that police/stewarding actions are always for a reason and often one that isn't apparent at the time. Have you subsequently spoken to anyone at the club or the police about this incident?
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A few people are saying there is more to it than standing,is that coming from the club?
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Ah bless !!
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Ah bless !!
I don't think it'll be for their supposed political opinions.
Or for being anti-racist.
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I was there, I saw and heard what happened, I didn't THINK it was for standing, I KNOW it was ! They were ejected for standing as I witnessed it first hand. They have now been excluded from buying away tickets at this moment in time which suggests it is a ban put in place for standing. I know the persons it affects and I can honestly say they are not or have been involved in anything other than supporting AVFC.
Is that better/clearer/understandable ?
You know what you saw. Are you aware of anything else that happened before or after? I say that because years of experience has taught me that police/stewarding actions are always for a reason and often one that isn't apparent at the time. Have you subsequently spoken to anyone at the club or the police about this incident?
Does anybody have any conclusive proof that anything else has happened other than standing in the section? Violence, possession of unauthorised articles? No, they don't. Nobody from the section was arrested at Rotherham, so if there are these rumoured 'other factors' then why haven't the club acted on them? Why is there no media coverage?
Any speculative sensationalism is clearly a symptom of the hostility toward Brigada, on forums like this, since conception. There are a number of reasons for this which I don't care to discuss. This thread is not concerning the validity of the group, it is concerning the unjust treatment of a section of supporters by the club and police. I would imagine that most people on this forum have stood for the majority of a game, either home or away, and this situation is clearly getting worse as Brigada stood up for the entirety of every home game last season, and we have not seen this type of treatment before.
If this type of treatment persists then it will inevitably result in VP being transformed from one of the most atmospheric grounds in the country, which we all love, to a subdued atmosphere very different to the cauldron that Villains have called their home for over 100 years.
If they take away standing, what will come next?
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I was there, I saw and heard what happened, I didn't THINK it was for standing, I KNOW it was ! They were ejected for standing as I witnessed it first hand. They have now been excluded from buying away tickets at this moment in time which suggests it is a ban put in place for standing. I know the persons it affects and I can honestly say they are not or have been involved in anything other than supporting AVFC.
Is that better/clearer/understandable ?
You know what you saw. Are you aware of anything else that happened before or after? I say that because years of experience has taught me that police/stewarding actions are always for a reason and often one that isn't apparent at the time. Have you subsequently spoken to anyone at the club or the police about this incident?
Does anybody have any conclusive proof that anything else has happened other than standing in the section? Violence, possession of unauthorised articles? No, they don't. Nobody from the section was arrested at Rotherham, so if there are these rumoured 'other factors' then why haven't the club acted on them? Why is there no media coverage?
Any speculative sensationalism is clearly a symptom of the hostility toward Brigada, on forums like this, since conception. There are a number of reasons for this which I don't care to discuss. This thread is not concerning the validity of the group, it is concerning the unjust treatment of a section of supporters by the club and police. I would imagine that most people on this forum have stood for the majority of a game, either home or away, and this situation is clearly getting worse as Brigada stood up for the entirety of every home game last season, and we have not seen this type of treatment before.
If this type of treatment persists then it will inevitably result in VP being transformed from one of the most atmospheric grounds in the country, which we all love, to a subdued atmosphere very different to the cauldron that Villains have called their home for over 100 years.
If they take away standing, what will come next?
Read through this thread and you'll see a pretty much unanimous defence of Brigada. Read back over this board and you'll see the same. Look through back issues of H&V and the same. Please don't come on here and make accusations that aren't true.
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Any speculative sensationalism is clearly a symptom of the hostility toward Brigada, on forums like this, since conception.
You obviously haven't paid much attention to this forum or, indeed, this thread, if you think there's much hostility towards Brigada. You might be better off picking an argument with the people who really do have it in for them.
As for taking away standing, they took it away years ago. I entirely understand why it still happens and why people want to do it, but if it comes down to it, in a legal sense, the standers are in the wrong.
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The club need to release a statement asap.
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I was there, I saw and heard what happened, I didn't THINK it was for standing, I KNOW it was ! They were ejected for standing as I witnessed it first hand. They have now been excluded from buying away tickets at this moment in time which suggests it is a ban put in place for standing. I know the persons it affects and I can honestly say they are not or have been involved in anything other than supporting AVFC.
Is that better/clearer/understandable ?
You know what you saw. Are you aware of anything else that happened before or after? I say that because years of experience has taught me that police/stewarding actions are always for a reason and often one that isn't apparent at the time. Have you subsequently spoken to anyone at the club or the police about this incident?
Does anybody have any conclusive proof that anything else has happened other than standing in the section? Violence, possession of unauthorised articles? No, they don't. Nobody from the section was arrested at Rotherham, so if there are these rumoured 'other factors' then why haven't the club acted on them? Why is there no media coverage?
Any speculative sensationalism is clearly a symptom of the hostility toward Brigada, on forums like this, since conception. There are a number of reasons for this which I don't care to discuss. This thread is not concerning the validity of the group, it is concerning the unjust treatment of a section of supporters by the club and police. I would imagine that most people on this forum have stood for the majority of a game, either home or away, and this situation is clearly getting worse as Brigada stood up for the entirety of every home game last season, and we have not seen this type of treatment before.
If this type of treatment persists then it will inevitably result in VP being transformed from one of the most atmospheric grounds in the country, which we all love, to a subdued atmosphere very different to the cauldron that Villains have called their home for over 100 years.
If they take away standing, what will come next?
Read through this thread and you'll see a pretty much unanimous defence of Brigada. Read back over this board and you'll see the same. Look through back issues of H&V and the same. Please don't come on here and make accusations that aren't true.
You've clearly missed my point, I am deflecting this speculation around "other aspects" which are clearly unfounded, away from the group. Unanimous defence and unfounded speculative criticism of the same group are clearly not synonymous.
As I said before, I'm not trying to defend or debate the validity of the group, I'm trying to steer this forum towards a discussion of the actual issue based on facts and not speculation.
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The club need to release a statement asap.
Bit dramatic, no?
We're probably the only people in the world, other than the Brigada people themselves, who are talking about it. It's not exactly a major issue, is it?
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No they dont.
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I was there, I saw and heard what happened, I didn't THINK it was for standing, I KNOW it was ! They were ejected for standing as I witnessed it first hand. They have now been excluded from buying away tickets at this moment in time which suggests it is a ban put in place for standing. I know the persons it affects and I can honestly say they are not or have been involved in anything other than supporting AVFC.
Is that better/clearer/understandable ?
You know what you saw. Are you aware of anything else that happened before or after? I say that because years of experience has taught me that police/stewarding actions are always for a reason and often one that isn't apparent at the time. Have you subsequently spoken to anyone at the club or the police about this incident?
Does anybody have any conclusive proof that anything else has happened other than standing in the section? Violence, possession of unauthorised articles? No, they don't. Nobody from the section was arrested at Rotherham, so if there are these rumoured 'other factors' then why haven't the club acted on them? Why is there no media coverage?
Any speculative sensationalism is clearly a symptom of the hostility toward Brigada, on forums like this, since conception. There are a number of reasons for this which I don't care to discuss. This thread is not concerning the validity of the group, it is concerning the unjust treatment of a section of supporters by the club and police. I would imagine that most people on this forum have stood for the majority of a game, either home or away, and this situation is clearly getting worse as Brigada stood up for the entirety of every home game last season, and we have not seen this type of treatment before.
If this type of treatment persists then it will inevitably result in VP being transformed from one of the most atmospheric grounds in the country, which we all love, to a subdued atmosphere very different to the cauldron that Villains have called their home for over 100 years.
If they take away standing, what will come next?
Read through this thread and you'll see a pretty much unanimous defence of Brigada. Read back over this board and you'll see the same. Look through back issues of H&V and the same. Please don't come on here and make accusations that aren't true.
You've clearly missed my point, I am deflecting this speculation around "other aspects" which are clearly unfounded, away from the group. Unanimous defence and unfounded speculative criticism of the same group are clearly not synonymous.
As I said before, I'm not trying to defend or debate the validity of the group, I'm trying to steer this forum towards a discussion of the actual issue based on facts and not speculation.
What about the bit when you said this:
Any speculative sensationalism is clearly a symptom of the hostility toward Brigada, on forums like this, since conception.
That's what we are objecting to, because it is fundamentally not true.
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I was there, I saw and heard what happened, I didn't THINK it was for standing, I KNOW it was ! They were ejected for standing as I witnessed it first hand. They have now been excluded from buying away tickets at this moment in time which suggests it is a ban put in place for standing. I know the persons it affects and I can honestly say they are not or have been involved in anything other than supporting AVFC.
Is that better/clearer/understandable ?
You know what you saw. Are you aware of anything else that happened before or after? I say that because years of experience has taught me that police/stewarding actions are always for a reason and often one that isn't apparent at the time. Have you subsequently spoken to anyone at the club or the police about this incident?
Does anybody have any conclusive proof that anything else has happened other than standing in the section? Violence, possession of unauthorised articles? No, they don't. Nobody from the section was arrested at Rotherham, so if there are these rumoured 'other factors' then why haven't the club acted on them? Why is there no media coverage?
Any speculative sensationalism is clearly a symptom of the hostility toward Brigada, on forums like this, since conception. There are a number of reasons for this which I don't care to discuss. This thread is not concerning the validity of the group, it is concerning the unjust treatment of a section of supporters by the club and police. I would imagine that most people on this forum have stood for the majority of a game, either home or away, and this situation is clearly getting worse as Brigada stood up for the entirety of every home game last season, and we have not seen this type of treatment before.
If this type of treatment persists then it will inevitably result in VP being transformed from one of the most atmospheric grounds in the country, which we all love, to a subdued atmosphere very different to the cauldron that Villains have called their home for over 100 years.
If they take away standing, what will come next?
Read through this thread and you'll see a pretty much unanimous defence of Brigada. Read back over this board and you'll see the same. Look through back issues of H&V and the same. Please don't come on here and make accusations that aren't true.
You've clearly missed my point, I am deflecting this speculation around "other aspects" which are clearly unfounded, away from the group. Unanimous defence and unfounded speculative criticism of the same group are clearly not synonymous.
As I said before, I'm not trying to defend or debate the validity of the group, I'm trying to steer this forum towards a discussion of the actual issue based on facts and not speculation.
How can I possibly be missing your point when I directly answered an accusation you made?
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The club need to release a statement asap.
Bit dramatic, no?
We're probably the only people in the world, other than the Brigada people themselves, who are talking about it. It's not exactly a major issue, is it?
It's about what it stands for, it's about football fans knowing their rights and it's about consistent treatment of supporters. The amount of our money they take, they should be able to justify their actions.
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The club need to release a statement asap.
Bit dramatic, no?
We're probably the only people in the world, other than the Brigada people themselves, who are talking about it. It's not exactly a major issue, is it?
Before the rumors get any worse,we had already people coming on here talking about threats and letters being sent.Before you know it it's people being knocked out and letter bombs have been sent.
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The club need to release a statement asap.
Bit dramatic, no?
We're probably the only people in the world, other than the Brigada people themselves, who are talking about it. It's not exactly a major issue, is it?
It's about what it stands for, it's about football fans knowing their rights and it's about consistent treatment of supporters. The amount of our money they take, they should be able to justify their actions.
And in the context of what has happened, it's pretty small fry, isn't it?
I don't like it happening, and I am not suggesting there is any justification for it whatsoever. Nor am I suggesting I believe the intimation there's something more important than standing at play.
All i am saying is that the suggestion the club need to make a statement over such a small issue seems way off kilter to me.
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The club need to release a statement asap.
Bit dramatic, no?
We're probably the only people in the world, other than the Brigada people themselves, who are talking about it. It's not exactly a major issue, is it?
Before the rumors get any worse,we had already people coming on here talking about threats and letters being sent.Before you know it it's people being knocked out and letter bombs have been sent.
The rumours getting worse?
The rumours being discussed on an insignificant fan forum by about 20 people tops?
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The club need to release a statement asap.
No chance of that happening in my opinion.
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Before you know it it's people being knocked out and letter bombs have been sent.
Dear oh dear, that's a bit of a jump from what we have now, isn't it?
Letter bombs?
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Before you know it it's people being knocked out and letter bombs have been sent.
Dear oh dear, that's a bit of a jump from what we have now, isn't it?
Letter bombs?
10 pint Dan hasn't been back on yet give it time.
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
See what I mean people making stuff up,you have no idea if there is more to it.Issue a statement and move on.
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
See what I mean people making stuff up,you have no idea if there is more to it.Issue a statement and move on.
If it's become a legal matter they can't say anything.
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
See what I mean people making stuff up,you have no idea if there is more to it.Issue a statement and move on.
If it's become a legal matter they can't say anything.
If that's true,better lock the thread.
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
See what I mean people making stuff up,you have no idea if there is more to it.Issue a statement and move on.
did you ignore all but the last line? I'm not making anything up, I just think that there is something else going on as, despite the club being well within their rights for the reasons I gave, I don't think Villa are the sort of club to do something like this lightly. I have no idea what that could be but I can fully understand that any statement from the club (which as Dave W mentions there's a good chance they couldn't give even if they wanted to) would not need to say anything more than the known facts:
Standing all match isn't allowed
They have a principle of standing all match
More may come out but as things stand the club can justify the response very easily, and that justification is simple.
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
See what I mean people making stuff up,you have no idea if there is more to it.Issue a statement and move on.
did you ignore all but the last line? I'm not making anything up, I just think that there is something else going on as, despite the club being well within their rights for the reasons I gave, I don't think Villa are the sort of club to do something like this lightly. I have no idea what that could be but I can fully understand that any statement from the club (which as Dave W mentions there's a good chance they couldn't give even if they wanted to) would not need to say anything more than the known facts:
Standing all match isn't allowed
They have a principle of standing all match
More may come out but as things stand the club can justify the response very easily, and that justification is simple.
What makes you think there is more to it.What have you heard/been told or is it a feeling?
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
See what I mean people making stuff up,you have no idea if there is more to it.Issue a statement and move on.
did you ignore all but the last line? I'm not making anything up, I just think that there is something else going on as, despite the club being well within their rights for the reasons I gave, I don't think Villa are the sort of club to do something like this lightly. I have no idea what that could be but I can fully understand that any statement from the club (which as Dave W mentions there's a good chance they couldn't give even if they wanted to) would not need to say anything more than the known facts:
Standing all match isn't allowed
They have a principle of standing all match
More may come out but as things stand the club can justify the response very easily, and that justification is simple.
What makes you think there is more to it.What have you heard/been told or is it a feeling?
I already answered that above, I've put it in bold for you.
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So you think there's more to it.See what I mean nobody has a bloody clue what has gone on.At this minute in time we have only heard one side of the story,until the club comes out with anything,20 people have been thrown out for standing.Looks bad on the club until I hear different.
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So you think there's more to it.See what I mean nobody has a bloody clue what has gone on.At this minute in time we have only heard one side of the story,until the club comes out with anything,20 people have been thrown out for standing.Looks bad on the club until I hear different.
How does it look bad on the club though, even if people think there's more to it, the founding principles of the group contain a line which shows they they intend to break one of the rules the club has no choice but to have in place. They (Brigada) have made it very easy for the club to come out of this in the right, and the club can even point to the council and police and say they've had no choice but to do it or the whole stand could get closed. There is no value to a club statement and the lack of one in no way reflects badly on them.
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A statement from the club would be simple and completely pointless. Everyone who goes to games knows that, technically, standing isn't allowed. Brigada have 5 key principles , the 2nd of which is that they stand all game.
However harsh or heavy handed it may seem all the club has to do is say 'we told them they couldn't stand all game, they refused and have standing all game listed as a key principle of the group so we have, therefore, banned them under guidance from the police and council.
There is almost certainly more to it, but the club don't need there to be.
See what I mean people making stuff up,you have no idea if there is more to it.Issue a statement and move on.
did you ignore all but the last line? I'm not making anything up, I just think that there is something else going on as, despite the club being well within their rights for the reasons I gave, I don't think Villa are the sort of club to do something like this lightly. I have no idea what that could be but I can fully understand that any statement from the club (which as Dave W mentions there's a good chance they couldn't give even if they wanted to) would not need to say anything more than the known facts:
Standing all match isn't allowed
They have a principle of standing all match
More may come out but as things stand the club can justify the response very easily, and that justification is simple.
What makes you think there is more to it.What have you heard/been told or is it a feeling?
I already answered that above, I've put it in bold for you.
So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
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So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
So much like when you claimed this site was clearly hostile to Brigada?
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All I could think of reading through the first three pages of this thread
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So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
So much like when you claimed this site was clearly hostile to Brigada?
A lot of the posts on this forum have pointed to there "being more to it" which is in itself hostility, where else would these comments come from?
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So you think there's more to it.See what I mean nobody has a bloody clue what has gone on.At this minute in time we have only heard one side of the story,until the club comes out with anything,20 people have been thrown out for standing.Looks bad on the club until I hear different.
How does it look bad on the club though, even if people think there's more to it, the founding principles of the group contain a line which shows they they intend to break one of the rules the club has no choice but to have in place. They (Brigada) have made it very easy for the club to come out of this in the right, and the club can even point to the council and police and say they've had no choice but to do it or the whole stand could get closed. There is no value to a club statement and the lack of one in no way reflects badly on them.
It looks bad on the club because they targeted a certain section of fans.I had to stand all game on Wednesday because people in front of me were standing,no stewards in the North Stand Lower to tell people to sit down maybe because they had been sent up the Holte.
I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing.Looks,I do have a problem with fans being targeted for doing it.There is no doubt they were targeted on Wednesday anybody in the ground could see it,that does look bad on the club until we are told any different.
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So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
So much like when you claimed this site was clearly hostile to Brigada?
A lot of the posts on this forum have pointed to there "being more to it" which is in itself hostility, where else would these comments come from?
It's hardly being hostile to ask if there is more to things than are currently in the public domain.
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So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
So much like when you claimed this site was clearly hostile to Brigada?
A lot of the posts on this forum have pointed to there "being more to it" which is in itself hostility, where else would these comments come from?
No, it is some people saying they think there is more to it. Or is no one allowed to have an opinion that you don't agree with?
Go through the Brigada threads on this site, check out issues of H&V and then come back with proof that the site is clearly hostile, not just a few people saying something you don't like but that the majority of the site is clearly hostile.
Otherwise you are just as guilty of the sensationalism that you are accusing others of.
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So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
So much like when you claimed this site was clearly hostile to Brigada?
A lot of the posts on this forum have pointed to there "being more to it" which is in itself hostility, where else would these comments come from?
No, it is some people saying they think there is more to it. Or is no one allowed to have an opinion that you don't agree with?
Go through the Brigada threads on this site, check out issues of H&V and then come back with proof that the site is clearly hostile, not just a few people saying something you don't like but that the majority of the site is clearly hostile.
Otherwise you are just as guilty of the sensationalism that you are accusing others of.
On this particular thread there have been talk of threatening letters and the sort, which has caused other users to speculate and not focus on the actual topic at hand. That is sensationalism. My comments are not sensationalist because I can actually see the comments that were posted about this.
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That was one isolated post.
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That was one isolated post.
That nobody took seriously.
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Exactly.
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So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
So much like when you claimed this site was clearly hostile to Brigada?
A lot of the posts on this forum have pointed to there "being more to it" which is in itself hostility, where else would these comments come from?
No, it is some people saying they think there is more to it. Or is no one allowed to have an opinion that you don't agree with?
Go through the Brigada threads on this site, check out issues of H&V and then come back with proof that the site is clearly hostile, not just a few people saying something you don't like but that the majority of the site is clearly hostile.
Otherwise you are just as guilty of the sensationalism that you are accusing others of.
On this particular thread there have been talk of threatening letters and the sort, which has caused other users to speculate and not focus on the actual topic at hand. That is sensationalism. My comments are not sensationalist because I can actually see the comments that were posted about this.
One person, one post = the site is clearly hostile. And you aren't sensationalising things?
So again, please provide proof that the site (not just one or two people) are clearly hostile to Brigada. Or you can always apologise the unfounded sensationalism.
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So to answer the question it's unfounded sensationalism
So much like when you claimed this site was clearly hostile to Brigada?
A lot of the posts on this forum have pointed to there "being more to it" which is in itself hostility, where else would these comments come from?
No it's not, my personal opinion is that the club has been given instructions from the council or the police that they had to be seen making a genuine effort to stop people from standing. This isn't an attack on the group but it does justify me thinking there's more to it. You've clearly come on here looking to be offended by people blaming them for getting kicked out (I personally think the 'we will stand all game' thing is incredibly naive and was only ever going to have 1 outcome though, but that's not hostility, that's just me thinking the comms between the group and the club are probably not where they need to be) and you're clutching at straws trying to make out that we're all being quite hostile. As others have said, if you read back most of this thread was largely supportive and my posts are simply pointing out the folly of expecting a club statement.
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So you think there's more to it.See what I mean nobody has a bloody clue what has gone on.At this minute in time we have only heard one side of the story,until the club comes out with anything,20 people have been thrown out for standing.Looks bad on the club until I hear different.
How does it look bad on the club though, even if people think there's more to it, the founding principles of the group contain a line which shows they they intend to break one of the rules the club has no choice but to have in place. They (Brigada) have made it very easy for the club to come out of this in the right, and the club can even point to the council and police and say they've had no choice but to do it or the whole stand could get closed. There is no value to a club statement and the lack of one in no way reflects badly on them.
It looks bad on the club because they targeted a certain section of fans.I had to stand all game on Wednesday because people in front of me were standing,no stewards in the North Stand Lower to tell people to sit down maybe because they had been sent up the Holte.
I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing.Looks,I do have a problem with fans being targeted for doing it.There is no doubt they were targeted on Wednesday anybody in the ground could see it,that does look bad on the club until we are told any different.
No it doesn't because nobody else in the ground is affiliated to a group with a founding principle to stand for the entire game.
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So you think there's more to it.See what I mean nobody has a bloody clue what has gone on.At this minute in time we have only heard one side of the story,until the club comes out with anything,20 people have been thrown out for standing.Looks bad on the club until I hear different.
How does it look bad on the club though, even if people think there's more to it, the founding principles of the group contain a line which shows they they intend to break one of the rules the club has no choice but to have in place. They (Brigada) have made it very easy for the club to come out of this in the right, and the club can even point to the council and police and say they've had no choice but to do it or the whole stand could get closed. There is no value to a club statement and the lack of one in no way reflects badly on them.
It looks bad on the club because they targeted a certain section of fans.I had to stand all game on Wednesday because people in front of me were standing,no stewards in the North Stand Lower to tell people to sit down maybe because they had been sent up the Holte.
I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing.Looks,I do have a problem with fans being targeted for doing it.There is no doubt they were targeted on Wednesday anybody in the ground could see it,that does look bad on the club until we are told any different.
No it doesn't because nobody else in the ground is affiliated to a group with a founding principle to stand for the entire game.
I thought they are anti fascist,yes that's why they were formed with the principle to stand.Jesus I would stop there if I was you.
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I take it you never read their 'manifesto' when they first appeared Bert? I'd stop if I were you as some folks know a lot more.
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I haven't read back through this thread so apologies if its already been said. But saying this site is hostile against the Brigada is rubbish.
Wasn't there a thread last year which most people were quite supportive of the said Brigada? Supposedly formed to create an atmosphere at the ground with banners, flags and constant chanting?
Which if it is what you guys are doing then fantastic. Go ahead and have a great time.
If how ever ther is another agenda then you can expect people to be weary of the group.
I don't know the insidant as I didn't see it, I don't sit anywhere near you guys during the game so from that respect I can't comment.
But to say this site is against the group is nonsense.
At the end of the day, the league rules are to stay seated. It's not as if its just the club. If you don't then expect a backlash from the authorities.
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I take it you never read their 'manifesto' when they first appeared Bert? I'd stop if I were you as some folks know a lot more.
With the help of the club until the club get an arse kicking from the council.It's like throwing the dog out because he farts too much,don't forget the club encouraged them to get their season tickets in the Holte because they are 'out of the way''.
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I take it you never read their 'manifesto' when they first appeared Bert? I'd stop if I were you as some folks know a lot more.
With the help of the club until the club get an arse kicking from the council.It's like throwing the dog out because he farts too much,don't forget the club encouraged them to get their season tickets in the Holte because they are 'out of the way''.
That wasn't what I asked.
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So you think there's more to it.See what I mean nobody has a bloody clue what has gone on.At this minute in time we have only heard one side of the story,until the club comes out with anything,20 people have been thrown out for standing.Looks bad on the club until I hear different.
How does it look bad on the club though, even if people think there's more to it, the founding principles of the group contain a line which shows they they intend to break one of the rules the club has no choice but to have in place. They (Brigada) have made it very easy for the club to come out of this in the right, and the club can even point to the council and police and say they've had no choice but to do it or the whole stand could get closed. There is no value to a club statement and the lack of one in no way reflects badly on them.
It looks bad on the club because they targeted a certain section of fans.I had to stand all game on Wednesday because people in front of me were standing,no stewards in the North Stand Lower to tell people to sit down maybe because they had been sent up the Holte.
I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing.Looks,I do have a problem with fans being targeted for doing it.There is no doubt they were targeted on Wednesday anybody in the ground could see it,that does look bad on the club until we are told any different.
No it doesn't because nobody else in the ground is affiliated to a group with a founding principle to stand for the entire game.
I thought they are anti fascist,yes that's why they were formed with the principle to stand.Jesus I would stop there if I was you.
Shall I make it a bit simpler.
Rule that the club has to follow, and has no choice on, says no standing (but said club are eager to circumvent said rule and are the only premier league club backing plans to allow for the rule to not apply to specific areas of the stadium)
Group says, quite clearly on their website, ignore that rule we stand (and makes it the 2nd founding principle that all members must agree to)
Club says (in actions that we know of, I have no idea if previous communication has been attempted), if you insist on standing and refuse to sit down then we will have to chuck you out, and we won't let you buy tickets for the time being but will talk with you about that next week
does it make sense now?
There is nothing at all about facism, anti-facism or any other bullshit involved.
So once again, how do the club look bad in this? The targeting thing, as stated, is completely and utterly incorrect because no one else in the ground who was standing up is doing it in accordance to a principle that they won't sit down. If a single fan stands and refuses to sit down when asked I'd expect him to be warned, if he carries on refusing to sit down I'd expect him to be removed. The reason most fans are allowed to stand unchallenged is because the club, the fans involved and the stewards all know that those fans would probably sit down if asked, Brigada have quite clearly stated that they have no intention of doing so, there's your difference.
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For Bert.
The group is based upon five basic principles, these are;
We support the players for the entirety of the game no matter how well or poorly we are playing.
We stand throughout the game
We make as much noise and create as big a scene as possible on the terraces.
We are anti-fascist, anti-racist and non-sectarian. Those who promote division based upon ethnicity, religion or nationality will not be tolerated in the group.
We act in unsion as a group, while we may have differences of opinion on some issues regarding the club we will always act in unity and back one another up at the game.
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I take it you never read their 'manifesto' when they first appeared Bert? I'd stop if I were you as some folks know a lot more.
With the help of the club until the club get an arse kicking from the council.It's like throwing the dog out because he farts too much,don't forget the club encouraged them to get their season tickets in the Holte because they are 'out of the way''.
That wasn't what I asked.
'We want to be pioneers in safe standing'. That's all I could find and now my eyes are bleeding,but if you know more please enlighten my.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
Because it isn't just for standing. Folks can can either choose to believe it or not. But it would be worth seeing who some of the posters are that are saying that and then thinking of their track record of knowing certain things. Currently, more can't be said.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
Because it isn't just for standing. Folks can can either choose to believe it or not. But it would be worth seeing who some of the posters are that are saying that and then thinking of their track record of knowing certain things. Currently, more can't be said.
Why can't more be said? If you know anything spill.
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To say H&V has been negative to your bunch is laughable , i dont like your lot at all , voicing those opinions had plenty of H&V having a pop , which is fair enough they are entitled to their opinions as I am mine .
.
Have a nice day
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There is a lot more to it.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
Because it isn't just for standing. Folks can can either choose to believe it or not. But it would be worth seeing who some of the posters are that are saying that and then thinking of their track record of knowing certain things. Currently, more can't be said.
Why can't more be said? If you know anything spill.
No.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
Because it isn't just for standing. Folks can can either choose to believe it or not. But it would be worth seeing who some of the posters are that are saying that and then thinking of their track record of knowing certain things. Currently, more can't be said.
Why can't more be said? If you know anything spill.
Oh how we laughed !
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
Because it isn't just for standing. Folks can can either choose to believe it or not. But it would be worth seeing who some of the posters are that are saying that and then thinking of their track record of knowing certain things. Currently, more can't be said.
Why can't more be said? If you know anything spill.
No.
Didn't even get to the foreplay stage,story of my life.
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Treat 'em mean and keep them keen.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
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There is a lot more to it.
Look your lied through your teeth earlier in the thread,so just refrain from talking more shite because your making yourself look silly.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
cry me a river
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
cry me a river
I'd cry if I was you. How fucking confused are you? You talk so much shit you actually believe it.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
I know you've spoken but how much compromise have you made?
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
I know you've spoken but how much compromise have you made?
Specifically have you ever considered removing the principle that you will stand for the entire game? At least until safe standing trials can be introduced. I'm sure the club would love to have a group who would trial a small standing area and do so in productive dialogue with both the club and police. I'm not sure how that can be achieved when one of your core principles states that you're members are going to break a rule (which the club have to be seen to enforce) at every single game.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
cry me a river
I'd cry if I was you. How fucking confused are you? You talk so much shit you actually believe it.
really ! coming from you , hope your pals enjoy there break , you can chat on PM if you want , I will tell you what i really think
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
I know you've spoken but how much compromise have you made?
I'm no longer an active group member but still good friends with those involved but it was never a case of what could or shouldnt be done at games so there was no comprises to made really.
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You could look at the post above and see that they were formed to stand.
Fair enough on that but why have the club gone from encouraging them to throwing them out,like I have said I have no problem with fans being thrown out for standing,but I can't take it being targeted,anybody who was at the game could see it was.
I don't think the club have ever particularly encouraged them. Tolerated, maybe, but I'm not sure that Brigada have ever made much attempt to meet them halfway.
So meetings and telephone calls and email exchanges aren't an attempt to work together?
cry me a river
I'd cry if I was you. How fucking confused are you? You talk so much shit you actually believe it.
really ! coming from you , hope your pals enjoy there break , you can chat on PM if you want , I will tell you what i really think
Speak here i've got nothing to hide ;)
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Not much !
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Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
-
Not much !
Spill the beans then, or stop talking shite.
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Because to some people it'll be the club's fault if it rains tomorrow.
-
Not much !
Spill the beans then, or stop talking shite.
no longer part of the group , where is my fall of the seat laughing smiley , hot in the kitchen was it .
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Fuck me not again the targeting of certain people for standing.There was a lot more people standing in other areas of the ground and nothing was done to them.
-
Been a while since we banned anyone, if people can't be more civil when talking to each other then that will change.
-
Not much !
Spill the beans then, or stop talking shite.
no longer part of the group , where is my fall of the seat laughing smiley , hot in the kitchen was it .
maybe watching my son play on saturdays and not being to commit to the group was the reason but hey you seemto know all about the group so i dont to tell you that.
-
Not much !
Spill the beans then, or stop talking shite.
no longer part of the group , where is my fall of the seat laughing smiley , hot in the kitchen was it .
maybe watching my son play on saturdays and not being to commit to the group was the reason but hey you seemto know all about the group so i dont to tell you that.
Admirable, fair play I hope the lad does well ,
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Because to some people it'll be the club's fault if it rains tomorrow.
Not quite.
I've answered your question could you please have the courtesy to answer the question I posed you now.
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Because to some people it'll be the club's fault if it rains tomorrow.
Not quite.
I've answered your question could you please have the courtesy to answer the question I posed you now.
[/quoteOh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Because to some people it'll be the club's fault if it rains tomorrow.
Not quite.
I've answered your question could you please have the courtesy to answer the question I posed you now.
You won't get an answer seems to be a them and us on here tonight.
-
Shit bit of quoting sorry.
-
Not much !
Spill the beans then, or stop talking shite.
no longer part of the group , where is my fall of the seat laughing smiley , hot in the kitchen was it .
maybe watching my son play on saturdays and not being to commit to the group was the reason but hey you seemto know all about the group so i dont to tell you that.
Admirable, fair play I hope the lad does well ,
But he wants to join brigada!
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
[/quoteToo many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Theres no legal reasons there are no legal proceedings, just people trying to sound ITK
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Because to some people it'll be the club's fault if it rains tomorrow.
Not quite.
I've answered your question could you please have the courtesy to answer the question I posed you now.
Which one is that?
-
Must be this one Dave as it's the only question Silhill has asked.
Singing whilst seated, really ??
-
The question I asked you on P.14
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
[/quoteToo many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Theres no legal reasons there are no legal proceedings, just people trying to sound ITK
Do you know anything of what's been going on the last 10 pages of this has turned into the worst game of Chinese whispers I have ever played.
-
The question I asked you on P.14
No it isn't. Could you please repeat it?
-
This is your only post on page 14.
Oh sit down, oh sit down, oh sit down
-
Not much !
Spill the beans then, or stop talking shite.
no longer part of the group , where is my fall of the seat laughing smiley , hot in the kitchen was it .
maybe watching my son play on saturdays and not being to commit to the group was the reason but hey you seemto know all about the group so i dont to tell you that.
Admirable, fair play I hope the lad does well ,
But he wants to join brigada!
Dads Dilemma , just make sure he does not walk through brum shopping with an England shirt on .
I honestly wish him well . being a Villa fan is magic
-
2 seasons ago the Brigada lads were in the lower north and we owe them a lot of credit for adding some atmosphere and originality to that area of the ground. Even back then the stewards were singling them out and regularlyl throwing them out early. Absolutely disgusting from the club. These are lads who are die hard loyal fans who cause no trouble other than to come to games and enthusiastically back the team with great noise and songs. Woeful from the club indeed.
What would you say if your part of the ground was closed? Would that be the club's fault as well?
How will you feel when everyone is forced to sit in silence ?
Page 13, apologies Dave . Here it is again.
-
Yes Dave, please respond to the massively unrealistic hypothetical question.
-
2 seasons ago the Brigada lads were in the lower north and we owe them a lot of credit for adding some atmosphere and originality to that area of the ground. Even back then the stewards were singling them out and regularlyl throwing them out early. Absolutely disgusting from the club. These are lads who are die hard loyal fans who cause no trouble other than to come to games and enthusiastically back the team with great noise and songs. Woeful from the club indeed.
What would you say if your part of the ground was closed? Would that be the club's fault as well?
How will you feel when everyone is forced to sit in silence ?
Page 13, apologies Dave . Here it is again.
I answered you. No-one will ever be forced to sit in silence. Sitting in silence isn't on the agenda, it isn't a part of ground regulations and to bring such a question into the debate is pretty facile.
-
Dads Dilemma , just make sure he does not walk through brum shopping with an England shirt on .
I honestly wish him well . being a Villa fan is magic
What do you mean by that?
-
Dads Dilemma , just make sure he does not walk through brum shopping with an England shirt on .
I honestly wish him well . being a Villa fan is magic
What do you mean by that?
He's bringing politics into football.
-
You cannot sing whilst sat down . I know you can obviously but at football matches ? Honestly ? It won't happen.
-
You cannot sing whilst sat down . I know you can obviously but at football matches ? Honestly ? It won't happen.
It's not impossible, and neither is it illegal.
-
You cannot sing whilst sat down . I know you can obviously but at football matches ? Honestly ? It won't happen.
I can sing sitting on my head.
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Fuck me not again the targeting of certain people for standing.There was a lot more people standing in other areas of the ground and nothing was done to them.
Once more, please read carefully:
NO ONE ELSE in the ground is affiliated to a group that states they will stand all game, if this is purely about standing and they were targeted then it happened because they painted (in eye bleeding blue on their website) a big target on themselves.
Do you not understand that stating publicly that you're going to ignore a rule makes it really easy for you to be punished for ignoring the rule.
-
Dads Dilemma , just make sure he does not walk through brum shopping with an England shirt on .
I honestly wish him well . being a Villa fan is magic
What do you mean by that?
I'm curious what he means as well.
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
-
Not much !
Spill the beans then, or stop talking shite.
no longer part of the group , where is my fall of the seat laughing smiley , hot in the kitchen was it .
maybe watching my son play on saturdays and not being to commit to the group was the reason but hey you seemto know all about the group so i dont to tell you that.
Admirable, fair play I hope the lad does well ,
But he wants to join brigada!
Dads Dilemma , just make sure he does not walk through brum shopping with an England shirt on .
I honestly wish him well . being a Villa fan is magic
what the fuck? Has the special brew kicked in early tonight pal?
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Fuck me not again the targeting of certain people for standing.There was a lot more people standing in other areas of the ground and nothing was done to them.
Once more, please read carefully:
NO ONE ELSE in the ground is affiliated to a group that states they will stand all game, if this is purely about standing and they were targeted then it happened because they painted (in eye bleeding blue on their website) a big target on themselves.
Do you not understand that stating publicly that you're going to ignore a rule makes it really easy for you to be punished for ignoring the rule.
What about the people who aren't Brigada and sit in L8 but have to stand to see,do you throw them out and ban them as well?
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
Dave with all due respect are people are going to be taken to court for standing up?
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
Dave with all due respect are people are going to be taken to court for standing up?
Which obviously means it's about something else as well. I don't know what/why/how but that's what I've been told.
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
Dave with all due respect are people are going to be taken to court for standing up?
Which obviously means it's about something else as well. I don't know what/why/how but that's what I've been told.
Or your being feed shit? That isnt meant to sound offensive iin anyway
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
Dave with all due respect are people are going to be taken to court for standing up?
Which obviously means it's about something else as well. I don't know what/why/how but that's what I've been told.
Or your being feed shit? That isnt meant to sound offensive iin anyway
It's possible that someone I trust implicitly has lied to me for no reason or advantage, yes.
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
Dave with all due respect are people are going to be taken to court for standing up?
Which obviously means it's about something else as well. I don't know what/why/how but that's what I've been told.
Thanks for that Dave.
-
PWS is that what you know or do you still have the thumbscrews on?
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
Dave with all due respect are people are going to be taken to court for standing up?
Which obviously means it's about something else as well. I don't know what/why/how but that's what I've been told.
Or your being feed shit? That isnt meant to sound offensive iin anyway
It's possible that someone I trust implicitly has lied to me for no reason or advantage, yes.
No advantage or reason? You run the biggest Villa forum on the net.
-
Isn't John Lerwell's bigger?
-
PWS is that what you know or do you still have the thumbscrews on?
(https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/50356_137589560910_5386595_n.jpg)
-
Isn't John Lerwell's bigger?
Not according to graffiti in the Holte bogs.
-
My god this is a mess innit.
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Fuck me not again the targeting of certain people for standing.There was a lot more people standing in other areas of the ground and nothing was done to them.
Once more, please read carefully:
NO ONE ELSE in the ground is affiliated to a group that states they will stand all game, if this is purely about standing and they were targeted then it happened because they painted (in eye bleeding blue on their website) a big target on themselves.
Do you not understand that stating publicly that you're going to ignore a rule makes it really easy for you to be punished for ignoring the rule.
What about the people who aren't Brigada and sit in L8 but have to stand to see,do you throw them out and ban them as well?
What part of my post makes you think I see them thrown out or banned? Surely I've made it clear enough now that I'm of the opinion that if you want to show that you care about stopping people standing you target people who state they are going to stand all game. I really don't get how this is confusing you.
I have a little experiment for you, go in to A supermarket and tell someone you're going to steal something, see what happens if you then try to get on with shopping and slip a chocolate bar into your pocket. It's pretty much the same principle, if you're going to make a big deal about ignoring the rules don't be surprised if someone is upset about you ignoring the rules, it really is pretty basic logic.
-
No advantage or reason? You run the biggest Villa forum on the net.
Which makes no difference whatsoever. If a club that since 2006 has pretty much written the rulebook on being supporter-friendly has suddenly turned into the Wicked Stepmother they're not going to bother making up stories to all & sundry about their stewarding policy.
-
Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
So at some time in the (near) future the police will tell us why.(?)
In the meantime we all have no idea what it is what we're not allowed to do!?
To give them time to make something up?
The rules should be applied across the board, to all present at the venue, not hidden away so that we are uncertain of what's tolerated, or not, sometimes but not all the time!
An announcement over the PA system to inform/remind all of the rules and possible action is perfectly reasonable and even expected.
But not in this case apparently.
Clearly there was a hidden agenda that the stewards and police were aware of but no-one else?
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Fuck me not again the targeting of certain people for standing.There was a lot more people standing in other areas of the ground and nothing was done to them.
Once more, please read carefully:
NO ONE ELSE in the ground is affiliated to a group that states they will stand all game, if this is purely about standing and they were targeted then it happened because they painted (in eye bleeding blue on their website) a big target on themselves.
Do you not understand that stating publicly that you're going to ignore a rule makes it really easy for you to be punished for ignoring the rule.
What about the people who aren't Brigada and sit in L8 but have to stand to see,do you throw them out and ban them as well?
What part of my post makes you think I see them thrown out or banned? Surely I've made it clear enough now that I'm of the opinion that if you want to show that you care about stopping people standing you target people who state they are going to stand all game. I really don't get how this is confusing you.
I have a little experiment for you, go in to A supermarket and tell someone you're going to steal something, see what happens if you then try to get on with shopping and slip a chocolate bar into your pocket. It's pretty much the same principle, if you're going to make a big deal about ignoring the rules don't be surprised if someone is upset about you ignoring the rules, it really is pretty basic logic.
When you hear the beep it's time for Dale's supermarket Sweep.You just don't get it at all.
-
No advantage or reason? You run the biggest Villa forum on the net.
Which makes no difference whatsoever. If a club that since 2006 has pretty much written the rulebook on being supporter-friendly has suddenly turned into the Wicked Stepmother they're not going to bother making up stories to all & sundry about their stewarding policy.
Dave you edit a Villa Fanzine sit there during the next game and you tell everyone exactly what happens there except for persistent standing and lots of singing, you have the contacts to get there there will be a few empty seats now.
-
No advantage or reason? You run the biggest Villa forum on the net.
Which makes no difference whatsoever. If a club that since 2006 has pretty much written the rulebook on being supporter-friendly has suddenly turned into the Wicked Stepmother they're not going to bother making up stories to all & sundry about their stewarding policy.
Dave you edit a Villa Fanzine sit there during the next game and you tell everyone exactly what happens there except for persistent standing and lots of singing, you have the contacts to get there there will be a few empty seats now.
What?
-
No advantage or reason? You run the biggest Villa forum on the net.
Which makes no difference whatsoever. If a club that since 2006 has pretty much written the rulebook on being supporter-friendly has suddenly turned into the Wicked Stepmother they're not going to bother making up stories to all & sundry about their stewarding policy.
Dave you edit a Villa Fanzine sit there during the next game and you tell everyone exactly what happens there except for persistent standing and lots of singing, you have the contacts to get there there will be a few empty seats now.
What?
Spend the Newcastle game in L8 and you can see for your own eyes exactly what goes on, theres certainly nothing ever happened that would warrant a police enquiry.
-
No advantage or reason? You run the biggest Villa forum on the net.
Which makes no difference whatsoever. If a club that since 2006 has pretty much written the rulebook on being supporter-friendly has suddenly turned into the Wicked Stepmother they're not going to bother making up stories to all & sundry about their stewarding policy.
Dave you edit a Villa Fanzine sit there during the next game and you tell everyone exactly what happens there except for persistent standing and lots of singing, you have the contacts to get there there will be a few empty seats now.
What?
Spend the Newcastle game in L8 and you can see for your own eyes exactly what goes on, theres certainly nothing ever happened that would warrant a police enquiry.
After Rotherham that would probably be the wrong game to go in there as the situation will be different. However, I've had an idea...
-
I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
-
No advantage or reason? You run the biggest Villa forum on the net.
Which makes no difference whatsoever. If a club that since 2006 has pretty much written the rulebook on being supporter-friendly has suddenly turned into the Wicked Stepmother they're not going to bother making up stories to all & sundry about their stewarding policy.
Dave you edit a Villa Fanzine sit there during the next game and you tell everyone exactly what happens there except for persistent standing and lots of singing, you have the contacts to get there there will be a few empty seats now.
What?
Spend the Newcastle game in L8 and you can see for your own eyes exactly what goes on, theres certainly nothing ever happened that would warrant a police enquiry.
After Rotherham that would probably be the wrong game to go in there as the situation will be different. However, I've had an idea...
Good point!
Let me know the idea either on here or via pm
-
Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Fuck me not again the targeting of certain people for standing.There was a lot more people standing in other areas of the ground and nothing was done to them.
Once more, please read carefully:
NO ONE ELSE in the ground is affiliated to a group that states they will stand all game, if this is purely about standing and they were targeted then it happened because they painted (in eye bleeding blue on their website) a big target on themselves.
Do you not understand that stating publicly that you're going to ignore a rule makes it really easy for you to be punished for ignoring the rule.
What about the people who aren't Brigada and sit in L8 but have to stand to see,do you throw them out and ban them as well?
What part of my post makes you think I see them thrown out or banned? Surely I've made it clear enough now that I'm of the opinion that if you want to show that you care about stopping people standing you target people who state they are going to stand all game. I really don't get how this is confusing you.
I have a little experiment for you, go in to A supermarket and tell someone you're going to steal something, see what happens if you then try to get on with shopping and slip a chocolate bar into your pocket. It's pretty much the same principle, if you're going to make a big deal about ignoring the rules don't be surprised if someone is upset about you ignoring the rules, it really is pretty basic logic.
And if the supermarket turns a blind eye, every week, to customers slipping chocolate bars into their pockets but then singles out one specific group on one occasion who do, isn't that total bollox and no pretty basic logic at all?
-
When you hear the beep it's time for Dale's supermarket Sweep.You just don't get it at all.
OK...
What am i not getting? Please explain.
As Dave has said there is more to it, but the point still stands if you make a principle of breaking a rule you will eventually get told off for breaking it. I really dont understand why you think the club is in the wrong here, that you've persisted in wanting to know why they were 'targeted' for about 10 pages despite me repeatedly explaining that they made themselves a target. Worse you're trying to make out that it's me who's lost the plot. I really don't understand what you're now arguing about. I made up a ridiculous scenario in the hope of it making some headway with you but I give up.
I'm sure someone on here has a signature about arguing with people like this.
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When you hear the beep it's time for Dale's supermarket Sweep.You just don't get it at all.
OK...
What am i not getting? Please explain.
As Dave has said there is more to it, but the point still stands if you make a principle of breaking a rule you will eventually get told off for breaking it. I really dont understand why you think the club is in the wrong here, that you've persisted in wanting to know why they were 'targeted' for about 10 pages despite me repeatedly explaining that they made themselves a target. Worse you're trying to make out that it's me who's lost the plot. I really don't understand what you're now arguing about. I made up a ridiculous scenario in the hope of it making some headway with you but I give up.
I'm sure someone on here has a signature about arguing with people like this.
Have you been in L8 lately or is it just what you have heard?
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
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Oh right ? Well rather than "change the record" I will answer the question.
Of course I'd be gutted if my area of the ground were closed by BCC. However if it were closed due to a bunch of lads doing their level best to support the team via singing clapping and trying to get some atmosphere going I would come down on the side of said support - in this case Brigada.
The club as I've said have let themselves down again .
How have thge club let themselves down? I really don't understand why 2-3 people seem determined to demonise the club here.
Fuck me not again the targeting of certain people for standing.There was a lot more people standing in other areas of the ground and nothing was done to them.
Once more, please read carefully:
NO ONE ELSE in the ground is affiliated to a group that states they will stand all game, if this is purely about standing and they were targeted then it happened because they painted (in eye bleeding blue on their website) a big target on themselves.
Do you not understand that stating publicly that you're going to ignore a rule makes it really easy for you to be punished for ignoring the rule.
What about the people who aren't Brigada and sit in L8 but have to stand to see,do you throw them out and ban them as well?
What part of my post makes you think I see them thrown out or banned? Surely I've made it clear enough now that I'm of the opinion that if you want to show that you care about stopping people standing you target people who state they are going to stand all game. I really don't get how this is confusing you.
I have a little experiment for you, go in to A supermarket and tell someone you're going to steal something, see what happens if you then try to get on with shopping and slip a chocolate bar into your pocket. It's pretty much the same principle, if you're going to make a big deal about ignoring the rules don't be surprised if someone is upset about you ignoring the rules, it really is pretty basic logic.
And if the supermarket turns a blind eye, every week, to customers slipping chocolate bars into their pockets but then singles out one specific group on one occasion who do, isn't that total bollox and no pretty basic logic at all?
To carry on the chocolate bar/supermarket analogy...
No, it's not total bollox, because a) those not targeted are actually putting the chocolate bar back before leaving the shop (I.e maybe not standing for the entire game, thus not actually breaking a rule/law) and b) haven't declared their aim to steal chocolate from the supermarket on a public forum (stated on the interweb that one of their aims is to stand for the entire duration of the game).
I'm in support, from what I've read, of the feel-good brigada are trying to bring to the games. But to claim something as illogical, when another poster has clearly defined the logic..??...
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So at some time in the (near) future the police will tell us why.(?)
In the meantime we all have no idea what it is what we're not allowed to do!?
To give them time to make something up?
The rules should be applied across the board, to all present at the venue, not hidden away so that we are uncertain of what's tolerated, or not, sometimes but not all the time!
An announcement over the PA system to inform/remind all of the rules and possible action is perfectly reasonable and even expected.
But not in this case apparently.
Clearly there was a hidden agenda that the stewards and police were aware of but no-one else?
Oh come on!
You absolutely know that you are not allowed to stand consistently during the game, to pretend you don't know that is bollocks. You don't need a tannoy announcement to tell you.
I agree that the rule isn't applied consistently or even fairly, but no one picked up on it can really complain that they didn't know they were breaking any rules!
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Some implies it's more than the two who have implied anything negative and only one of those has sounded like he would want that, and in the process has posted something that looks like a veiled threat to someone's kid and repeatedly been pulled up for spouting incoherent nonsense.
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I'm relatively new to this site so forgive my ignorance but is there some history between H&V and Brigada ?? Seems very political / defensive / aggressive ?? Or am I wrong ?
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Who would they be then?
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And if the supermarket turns a blind eye, every week, to customers slipping chocolate bars into their pockets but then singles out one specific group on one occasion who do, isn't that total bollox and no pretty basic logic at all?
Which I imagine is why some people suspect that there is more to this than merely persistent standing? As Dave says, the club have treated fans well so it seems odd that they would do something like this in such an arbitrary fashion.
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I'm relatively new to this site so forgive my ignorance but is there some history between H&V and Brigada ?? Seems very political / defensive / aggressive ?? Or am I wrong ?
We have done nothing but support them since they began - including throughout this thread.
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Have you been in L8 lately or is it just what you have heard?
Why do I need to go in there?
I've explained far more times than I should have to why I don't think you can complain about the club in this. I'm sure in the section they're having great fun, but it's irrelevant to the point I'm making.
And if the supermarket turns a blind eye, every week, to customers slipping chocolate bars into their pockets but then singles out one specific group on one occasion who do, isn't that total bollox and no pretty basic logic at all?
If you've gone in and told them you're going to steal it and then do you' will get punished, if you steal it and hope no one notices you might get away with it, that's pretty much the point, if you're going to break rules you don't advertise the fact and you certainly don't then get all incredulous because you're being punished over it.
Simple situation, someone at the council whose job is to monitor the adherence to rules at public venues goes on the Brigada site. When his sight returns and he cleans up the blood he asks to review CCTV footage of the section they stand in from a few games. After watching he informs the club they either deal with it or the section is closed. Is the club in the wrong to eject those people if they refuse to sit down? Or would it be better to have part of the holte end closed over safety concerns and force anyone else sitting there to move to other areas of the ground.
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I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
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I'm relatively new to this site so forgive my ignorance but is there some history between H&V and Brigada ?? Seems very political / defensive / aggressive ?? Or am I wrong ?
We have done nothing but support them since they began - including throughout this thread.
Thanks for clarifying.
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Who would they be then?
Go back a bit in the thread.
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I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
Glad to be of assistance.
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So at some time in the (near) future the police will tell us why.(?)
In the meantime we all have no idea what it is what we're not allowed to do!?
To give them time to make something up?
The rules should be applied across the board, to all present at the venue, not hidden away so that we are uncertain of what's tolerated, or not, sometimes but not all the time!
An announcement over the PA system to inform/remind all of the rules and possible action is perfectly reasonable and even expected.
But not in this case apparently.
Clearly there was a hidden agenda that the stewards and police were aware of but no-one else?
Oh come on!
You absolutely know that you are not allowed to stand consistently during the game, to pretend you don't know that is bollocks. You don't need a tannoy announcement to tell you.
I agree that the rule isn't applied consistently or even fairly, but no one picked up on it can really complain that they didn't know they were breaking any rules!
Not trying to be awkward Plumbutt.
We all know we are not allowed to stand, but we all do it, in every ground that I know of.
No one is pretending not to know that. My point is that it goes on all the time and it's never a problem, is tolerated and all seem fine with that.
If it's suddenly going to become an issue then an announcement is only reasonable in my view. To be ejected for something thousands of fans do at every ground, every week, seems a bit harsh.
Making it "public" makes it clear to all at the moment in time rather than suddenly enforcing a rule that nobody seems to have bothered with, on all sides, for years!
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Have you been in L8 lately or is it just what you have heard?
Why do I need to go in there?
I've explained far more times than I should have to why I don't think you can complain about the club in this. I'm sure in the section they're having great fun, but it's irrelevant to the point I'm making.
And if the supermarket turns a blind eye, every week, to customers slipping chocolate bars into their pockets but then singles out one specific group on one occasion who do, isn't that total bollox and no pretty basic logic at all?
If you've gone in and told them you're going to steal it and then do you' will get punished, if you steal it and hope no one notices you might get away with it, that's pretty much the point, if you're going to break rules you don't advertise the fact and you certainly don't then get all incredulous because you're being punished over it.
Simple situation, someone at the council whose job is to monitor the adherence to rules at public venues goes on the Brigada site. When his sight returns and he cleans up the blood he asks to review CCTV footage of the section they stand in from a few games. After watching he informs the club they either deal with it or the section is closed. Is the club in the wrong to eject those people if they refuse to sit down? Or would it be better to have part of the holte end closed over safety concerns and force anyone else sitting there to move to other areas of the ground.
Next time you plan to get to VP sit in L8,if there is any Brigada left take the time to say hello,you might be surprised by the experience I was.
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I'm relatively new to this site so forgive my ignorance but is there some history between H&V and Brigada ?? Seems very political / defensive / aggressive ?? Or am I wrong ?
We have done nothing but support them since they began - including throughout this thread.
I can back that up 100% even allowing the lads to write an article for the fanzine
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I absolutely support the idea of Brigada, but I think trying to set it up without full discourse with the club was badly thought out and stating a principle online which is a breech of the rules at the ground is alarmingly naive. I also think they have the worst website I've seen for years.
I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
right the logic of this:
A creates a rule under guidance from B and C
D forms and wants to ignore said rule and can either inform A, B and C of this or can keep it quiet
D chooses to inform A, b and C that they will ignore said rule
A has the choice to either punish D or accept consequences from B or C
A chooses to punish D
There's no personal opinion to that.
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Next time you plan to get to VP sit in L8,if there is any Brigada left take the time to say hello,you might be surprised by the experience I was.
Unfortunately it won't be this season, it's a bit expensive to get there from where I live. As I've said though, I have nothing against them either as a group or as individuals, I just take great offense at the suggestion that the club is acting terribly, as premier league clubs go they're one of the best regarding the fans so to see a few people seem so eager to turn on them over this seems wrong.
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I absolutely support the idea of Brigada, but I think trying to set it up without full discourse with the club was badly thought out and stating a principle online which is a breech of the rules at the ground is alarmingly naive. I also think they have the worst website I've seen for years.
I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
right the logic of this:
A creates a rule under guidance from B and C
D forms and wants to ignore said rule and can either inform A, B and C of this or can keep it quiet
D chooses to inform A, b and C that they will ignore said rule
A has the choice to either punish D or accept consequences from B or C
A chooses to punish D
There's no personal opinion to that.
So if A ignores the rule it created in the first place but then randomly applies it, that's logic?
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I absolutely support the idea of Brigada, but I think trying to set it up without full discourse with the club was badly thought out and stating a principle online which is a breech of the rules at the ground is alarmingly naive. I also think they have the worst website I've seen for years.
I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
right the logic of this:
A creates a rule under guidance from B and C
D forms and wants to ignore said rule and can either inform A, B and C of this or can keep it quiet
D chooses to inform A, b and C that they will ignore said rule
A has the choice to either punish D or accept consequences from B or C
A chooses to punish D
There's no personal opinion to that.
So if A ignores the rule it created in the first place but then randomly applies it, that's logic?
If you assume that A, B, C and E (that's every other fan) live in balance that whilst the rule isn't enforced by A if they were told they had to by B and C then E would abide by it. By D stating that they're not going to abide by the rule they broke that balance. By acting as they did A satisfies B and C that it will enforce the rule and the balance is restored.
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Most people who stand at the ground sit down when they are told, from what I gather Brigada refuse. I imagine the club have even taken steps before doing something so drastic, such as getting in touch with the group. What if requests made through such channels by the club were declined? All this could be going on and in the background the council may have threatened to order that L8 be shut if they don't get Brigada to toe the line.
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Next time you plan to get to VP sit in L8,if there is any Brigada left take the time to say hello,you might be surprised by the experience I was.
Unfortunately it won't be this season, it's a bit expensive to get there from where I live. As I've said though, I have nothing against them either as a group or as individuals, I just take great offense at the suggestion that the club is acting terribly, as premier league clubs go they're one of the best regarding the fans so to see a few people seem so eager to turn on them over this seems wrong.
Fair enough nobody has turned on the club but don't you agree that if standing is so big a problem even a quick statement from the club saying we don't want fans to stand would have been in order.They have done it enough times in the past.It just seems they are trying to.keep what happened on Wednesday to themselves for some reason.
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The mistake in that sentence is the word 'randomly'
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Most people who stand at the ground sit down when they are told, from what I gather Brigada refuse. I imagine the club have even taken steps before doing something so drastic, such as getting in touch with the group. What if requests made through such channels by the club were declined? All this could be going on and in the background the council may have threatened to order that L8 be shut if they don't get Brigada to toe the line.
I agree but more fans stand in the North stand Lower and nothing is done.Maybe the club know the view is shit and let it go.
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Next time you plan to get to VP sit in L8,if there is any Brigada left take the time to say hello,you might be surprised by the experience I was.
Unfortunately it won't be this season, it's a bit expensive to get there from where I live. As I've said though, I have nothing against them either as a group or as individuals, I just take great offense at the suggestion that the club is acting terribly, as premier league clubs go they're one of the best regarding the fans so to see a few people seem so eager to turn on them over this seems wrong.
Fair enough nobody has turned on the club but don't you agree that if standing is so big a problem even a quick statement from the club saying we don't want fans to stand would have been in order.They have done it enough times in the past.It just seems they are trying to.keep what happened on Wednesday to themselves for some reason.
No, I think football fans are too quick to demand statements as I said earlier all the statement would say (if they could make one which they can't given Dave W's comments) is that they have a rule and they enforced it on a section of persistent offenders.
Regardless of what else is involved, what Brigada need to learn from this is that they need to work with the club better. They're in a unique position in the premier league of having a club that supports safe standing, with a bit more thought and common sense they could and should be linking closely to that and showing a willingness to work with the club to make it happen.
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Next time you plan to get to VP sit in L8,if there is any Brigada left take the time to say hello,you might be surprised by the experience I was.
Unfortunately it won't be this season, it's a bit expensive to get there from where I live. As I've said though, I have nothing against them either as a group or as individuals, I just take great offense at the suggestion that the club is acting terribly, as premier league clubs go they're one of the best regarding the fans so to see a few people seem so eager to turn on them over this seems wrong.
Agreed regarding the club and its attitude to the fans. It's probably the best in the PL, but I am a bit biassed.
I'm not having a go at the club here, but just think the situation could have been dealt with more thoughtfully.
If the "rules" or "safety" was such a concern and this particular group were a particular conern, did anyone attempt to talk with them? Easy to do through their website.
If it is just the standing thing genearlly that's an issue all of a sudden - some directive from on-high to clamp down on this? - then share it with all of the fans before taking stronger action than has been experienced by all until now.
Then we all know where we are and why such action is being taken on this occasion and in the future.
If the unwritten rules are changing could someone let us know?
As I've said before, I don't want to be ejected for doing something that seems to have been perfectly acceptable for years!
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Next time you plan to get to VP sit in L8,if there is any Brigada left take the time to say hello,you might be surprised by the experience I was.
Unfortunately it won't be this season, it's a bit expensive to get there from where I live. As I've said though, I have nothing against them either as a group or as individuals, I just take great offense at the suggestion that the club is acting terribly, as premier league clubs go they're one of the best regarding the fans so to see a few people seem so eager to turn on them over this seems wrong.
Agreed regarding the club and its attitude to the fans. It's probably the best in the PL, but I am a bit biassed.
I'm not having a go at the club here, but just think the situation could have been dealt with more thoughtfully.
If the "rules" or "safety" was such a concern and this particular group were a particular conern, did anyone attempt to talk with them? Easy to do through their website.
If it is just the standing thing genearlly that's an issue all of a sudden - some directive from on-high to clamp down on this? - then share it with all of the fans before taking stronger action than has been experienced by all until now.
Then we all know where we are and why such action is being taken on this occasion and in the future.
If the unwritten rules are changing could someone let us know?
As I've said before, I don't want to be ejected for doing something that seems to have been perfectly acceptable for years!
As said there is a delicate balance, everyone in football knows that large sections of the crowd will stand up for long periods, the issue is with the implication of stating that you intend to stand up for the entire game. I have no idea if the club has discussed this with them or not, but regardless of whether they have or not they shouldn't state on their website that they intend to stand all game, it's just silly.
The unwritten rules won't change, but Brigada have challenged that rule, whether they intended to or not.
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Next time you plan to get to VP sit in L8,if there is any Brigada left take the time to say hello,you might be surprised by the experience I was.
Unfortunately it won't be this season, it's a bit expensive to get there from where I live. As I've said though, I have nothing against them either as a group or as individuals, I just take great offense at the suggestion that the club is acting terribly, as premier league clubs go they're one of the best regarding the fans so to see a few people seem so eager to turn on them over this seems wrong.
Fair enough nobody has turned on the club but don't you agree that if standing is so big a problem even a quick statement from the club saying we don't want fans to stand would have been in order.They have done it enough times in the past.It just seems they are trying to.keep what happened on Wednesday to themselves for some reason.
No, I think football fans are too quick to demand statements as I said earlier all the statement would say (if they could make one which they can't given Dave W's comments) is that they have a rule and they enforced it on a section of persistent offenders.
Regardless of what else is involved, what Brigada need to learn from this is that they need to work with the club better. They're in a unique position in the premier league of having a club that supports safe standing, with a bit more thought and common sense they could and should be linking closely to that and showing a willingness to work with the club to make it happen.
There is fault on both sides here.You seem to have a blinkered view that the club can do no wrong.
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I absolutely support the idea of Brigada, but I think trying to set it up without full discourse with the club was badly thought out and stating a principle online which is a breech of the rules at the ground is alarmingly naive. I also think they have the worst website I've seen for years.
I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
right the logic of this:
A creates a rule under guidance from B and C
D forms and wants to ignore said rule and can either inform A, B and C of this or can keep it quiet
D chooses to inform A, b and C that they will ignore said rule
A has the choice to either punish D or accept consequences from B or C
A chooses to punish D
There's no personal opinion to that.
So if A ignores the rule it created in the first place but then randomly applies it, that's logic?
If you assume that A, B, C and E (that's every other fan) live in balance that whilst the rule isn't enforced by A if they were told they had to by B and C then E would abide by it. By D stating that they're not going to abide by the rule they broke that balance. By acting as they did A satisfies B and C that it will enforce the rule and the balance is restored.
Thanks for clearing that one up paul_e!
(But...does this mean that if I stand at Norwich with 1500 other Villa fans I'm going to get chucked out?)
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Are any Brigada left ? Will this be like the last of The Mohawks ?
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I absolutely support the idea of Brigada, but I think trying to set it up without full discourse with the club was badly thought out and stating a principle online which is a breech of the rules at the ground is alarmingly naive. I also think they have the worst website I've seen for years.
I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
right the logic of this:
A creates a rule under guidance from B and C
D forms and wants to ignore said rule and can either inform A, B and C of this or can keep it quiet
D chooses to inform A, b and C that they will ignore said rule
A has the choice to either punish D or accept consequences from B or C
A chooses to punish D
There's no personal opinion to that.
So if A ignores the rule it created in the first place but then randomly applies it, that's logic?
If you assume that A, B, C and E (that's every other fan) live in balance that whilst the rule isn't enforced by A if they were told they had to by B and C then E would abide by it. By D stating that they're not going to abide by the rule they broke that balance. By acting as they did A satisfies B and C that it will enforce the rule and the balance is restored.
Thanks for clearing that one up paul_e!
(But...does this mean that if I stand at Norwich with 1500 other Villa fans I'm going to get chucked out?)
Nope, because everyone knows you'd sit down if you were asked, so they don't ask.
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I absolutely support the idea of Brigada, but I think trying to set it up without full discourse with the club was badly thought out and stating a principle online which is a breech of the rules at the ground is alarmingly naive. I also think they have the worst website I've seen for years.
I appreciate you explaining it to me so eloquently, Doorbell.
Until now I thought I we all had an understanding of logic ( involving a large slice of personal opinion of what that logic is).
I now understand that only one other poster knows what logic is and the rest of us are clearly fu**ing clueless.
If only you'd told me this years ago. ;-)
right the logic of this:
A creates a rule under guidance from B and C
D forms and wants to ignore said rule and can either inform A, B and C of this or can keep it quiet
D chooses to inform A, b and C that they will ignore said rule
A has the choice to either punish D or accept consequences from B or C
A chooses to punish D
There's no personal opinion to that.
So if A ignores the rule it created in the first place but then randomly applies it, that's logic?
If you assume that A, B, C and E (that's every other fan) live in balance that whilst the rule isn't enforced by A if they were told they had to by B and C then E would abide by it. By D stating that they're not going to abide by the rule they broke that balance. By acting as they did A satisfies B and C that it will enforce the rule and the balance is restored.
Thanks for clearing that one up paul_e!
(But...does this mean that if I stand at Norwich with 1500 other Villa fans I'm going to get chucked out?)
Nope, because everyone knows you'd sit down if you were asked, so they don't ask.
That's using that there logic that is!
Cheers mate! :D
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Does anybody know the name of the extreme ultra group who stand up in front of me when they arrive 10 minutes into the game with their chips, stand up in front of me when they leave 10 minutes before half time to get a capuccino, obstruct my view when they head for their seats 10 minutes into the 2nd half and get in my fu**ing way when they leave 10 minutes before the end (irrespective of score!) so they can beat the traffic!
I've given them a short snappy nickname of my own 'til now, but surely they are part of a much bigger, global organisation bent on making the matchday experience extremely fu**ing annoying.
Supported by Sky perhaps?
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Some implies it's more than the two who have implied anything negative and only one of those has sounded like he would want that, and in the process has posted something that looks like a veiled threat to someone's kid and repeatedly been pulled up for spouting incoherent nonsense.
i hope that comment is not aimed at me , far from it , i meant what i said good luck mons x1 lad nothing more or less .
my comment about the England shirt was directed towards one of the brigada lot targetted a kid because he had and England shirt on , and decided he was part of an EDL march . very brave , considering the lads background , nothing more to be said from me
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Some implies it's more than the two who have implied anything negative and only one of those has sounded like he would want that, and in the process has posted something that looks like a veiled threat to someone's kid and repeatedly been pulled up for spouting incoherent nonsense.
i hope that comment is not aimed at me , far from it , i meant what i said good luck mons x1 lad nothing more or less .
my comment about the England shirt was directed towards one of the brigada lot targetted a kid because he had and England shirt on , and decided he was part of an EDL march . very brave , considering the lads background , nothing more to be said from me
You are troubled.
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from you , i will probably accept that thankfully .
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my comment about the England shirt was directed towards one of the brigada lot targetted a kid because he had and England shirt on , and decided he was part of an EDL march . very brave , considering the lads background , nothing more to be said from me
Nothing more to be said? I think there's a big dollop of context missing from your post. How do you know this? When and where did it happen? How do you know it was someone from Brigada? etc etc.
Framed in the way you have done it seems downright odd.
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Some implies it's more than the two who have implied anything negative and only one of those has sounded like he would want that, and in the process has posted something that looks like a veiled threat to someone's kid and repeatedly been pulled up for spouting incoherent nonsense.
i hope that comment is not aimed at me , far from it , i meant what i said good luck mons x1 lad nothing more or less .
my comment about the England shirt was directed towards one of the brigada lot targetted a kid because he had and England shirt on , and decided he was part of an EDL march . very brave , considering the lads background , nothing more to be said from me
Wow!
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from you , i will probably accept that thankfully .
Are you on a wind up or do you really hold these views.
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but downright factual . the kid is a villa fan and knew the mans face from going to away games .
but hey ho , no politics , belly laugh
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Some implies it's more than the two who have implied anything negative and only one of those has sounded like he would want that, and in the process has posted something that looks like a veiled threat to someone's kid and repeatedly been pulled up for spouting incoherent nonsense.
i hope that comment is not aimed at me , far from it , i meant what i said good luck mons x1 lad nothing more or less .
my comment about the England shirt was directed towards one of the brigada lot targetted a kid because he had and England shirt on , and decided he was part of an EDL march . very brave , considering the lads background , nothing more to be said from me
Wow!
think of the activist , and i sincerely meant nothing but good luck to your lad , to think a poster thought i would stoop as low as to wish ill on your lad astounds me .
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but downright factual . the kid is a villa fan and knew the mans face from going to away games .
but hey ho , no politics , belly laugh
Ive sat here trying to post a reasoned response to the tripe you've posted but I cant! I actually feel sorry for you.
I never thought u meant anything other than luck to my lad.
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from you , i will probably accept that thankfully .
Are you on a wind up or do you really hold these views.
views on what ?
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I never thought u meant anything other than luck to my lad.
thanks , i appreciate that
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Some implies it's more than the two who have implied anything negative and only one of those has sounded like he would want that, and in the process has posted something that looks like a veiled threat to someone's kid and repeatedly been pulled up for spouting incoherent nonsense.
i hope that comment is not aimed at me , far from it , i meant what i said good luck mons x1 lad nothing more or less .
my comment about the England shirt was directed towards one of the brigada lot targetted a kid because he had and England shirt on , and decided he was part of an EDL march . very brave , considering the lads background , nothing more to be said from me
Wow!
think of the activist , and i sincerely meant nothing but good luck to your lad , to think a poster thought i would stoop as low as to wish ill on your lad astounds me .
That's how it read to me and I'm sure I wasn't the only one who'd read it as such.
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well you were very very wrong ,
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Very happy to be wrong.
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from you , i will probably accept that thankfully .
Are you on a wind up or do you really hold these views.
views on what ?
What is your problem with Bridada is it that the don't confer with your views on immigration?
Time to flush you out,I'm here all night.
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I spent 2 of the cup games in L8 last season,harmless fun is the best to describe it.Just some young lads getting behind our team.
And girls.
When Brigada were in the lower north there were always a couple of girls in amongst it singing their hearts out. Banning this lot is a real shame.
Some on here would them hanging by the neck.
Who would they be then?
Go back a bit in the thread.
So one person then? Not "some people", just one person.
And he was probably trolling.
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I'm not comfortable with the treatment of these fellow fans and so will probably write to the club on this one . If I stand up do I possibly face being banned ? Where will this all end ?
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I don't think the issue is simply a matter of just standing up, though. I stand up when something of interest occurs, but will sit down afterwards. It seems to me that part of the issue is the persistent, continual standing and refusal to sit down at any time which is currently against the law.
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Just read on their forum that someone who sits in this block tried to buy tickets for Hull away and they've been blocked on the system to buy tickets. Whether this is temporary or permanent measure they didn't know as someone from the club is due to call them tomorrow. Rules are rules, but how sad that all they're trying to do is support the team and aren't being allowed to. I'm not sure a solution can be found on this one.
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I don't think the issue is simply a matter of just standing up, though. I stand up when something of interest occurs, but will sit down afterwards. It seems to me that part of the issue is the persistent, continual standing and refusal to sit down at any time which is currently against the law.
Ever since the introduction of all-seater grounds, many supporters have continued to stand in front of their seats, often for the duration of the game.
It is widely believed that this practice is illegal. This is not the case, even within Premier League and Championship grounds. The law only provides that these clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them
Therefore, a supporter cannot be arrested simply for standing. For that reason, it is not a matter that the police should be involved in, unless (for example) a supporter assaults a steward asking to get people to sit down; that would be a criminal offence.
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/
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They weren't arrested. They were ejected from the ground. It's not a legal matter.
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Would be useful if Brigada released a statement.
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Would be useful if Brigada released a statement.
They have.
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Would be useful if Brigada released a statement.
They have.
http://brigada1874ultras.proboards.com/thread/1149/sit-group-statement-on-rotherham
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Sorry they got ejected but rules are rules and breaking them cost these people the chance to watch the match and possibly many more. It is possible to sit and sing. I agree about away fans standing to and feel they should be removed but that would start a retaliation in the away leg. Also there statment mentions the one stan petrov banner was that not allowed as it didnt meet the very strict fire regulations? Brought in after the fire at bradford. Lets just take this as a lesson learned and move on
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Whatever the right and wrongs, it's an absolute pile of shite that a group of decent young lads (and they are, I know a few), who pay good money week in, week out, get treated like this.
Not directly blaming the club here, more the draconian rules which seem to govern football and no other events.
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Mate I am sure they are good lads but at the end of the day if you stand when you are not supposed to and you have been warned about it and then continue to stand then its your own fault I am afraid but as you say its not the clubs fault they are only doing what the council tell them to do
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Exactly, and why don't they tell the council to fuck off and cite the various other events that go on under their watch where the same stringent conditions are applied.
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Because the council can close part of the ground very easily, your mates just need to use a bit of common sense and sit down every so often
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Exactly, and why don't they tell the council to fuck off and cite the various other events that go on under their watch where the same stringent conditions are applied.
Im guessing that they remember the 70's and 80's where football as a whole was a very violent and dangerous place. They are probably shit scared that even this small group may start causing trouble. Quite possibly wrongly as I know a lad who sits in l8 and hes more likly to go home and watch harry potter than go out fighting after a game but unfortunatly the rules are there and the club have to follow them.
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I don't think the issue is simply a matter of just standing up, though. I stand up when something of interest occurs, but will sit down afterwards. It seems to me that part of the issue is the persistent, continual standing and refusal to sit down at any time which is currently against the law.
Ever since the introduction of all-seater grounds, many supporters have continued to stand in front of their seats, often for the duration of the game.
It is widely believed that this practice is illegal. This is not the case, even within Premier League and Championship grounds. The law only provides that these clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them
Therefore, a supporter cannot be arrested simply for standing. For that reason, it is not a matter that the police should be involved in, unless (for example) a supporter assaults a steward asking to get people to sit down; that would be a criminal offence.
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/
I could be mistaken on this, but isn't there some acknowledgment from the authorities that supporters will stand during the game during moments of excitement? If that is actually written in the legislation, then there is a grey area the size of Karren Brady's enormous face.
In that scenario, it is not then simply a case of stand/ don't stand. Black or white. You're then down to a matter of interpretation.
That being the case, this Brigada lot could simply say they find the entire 90 minutes at VP one long excitement riot. They would be loons, based on our dire home these past few years. But loons who aren't breaking any actual rules.
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Exactly, and why don't they tell the council to fuck off and cite the various other events that go on under their watch where the same stringent conditions are applied.
Im guessing that they remember the 70's and 80's where football as a whole was a very violent and dangerous place. They are probably shit scared that even this small group may start causing trouble. Quite possibly wrongly as I know a lad who sits in l8 and hes more likly to go home and watch harry potter than go out fighting after a game but unfortunatly the rules are there and the club have to follow them.
They don't follow them, though. There are plenty of matches where there are large groups of people standing, totally unbothered by the stewards.
I appreciate that it's easier to approach a group of 50 than 5,000, that goes without saying, but really, I wonder if the club's attitude to these people is affected by the fact they're young, enthusiastic and have a slightly different approach to supporting the team.
Ultimately football clubs want us all spending big bucks to get in, then sitting quietly in our seats. It's not entirely their fault that it is like that, but with things the way they are, that's definitely what they want.
I am not a defender of standing usually - mainly because I feel sorry for the people who want to sit down but can't because everyone else is standing - but it's hard not to believe the powers that be, at every level, just want a load of docile, no-bother middle class people buying their expensive tickets, sitting down not saying boo to a goose, and then fucking off on 90 minutes.
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I suppose it would be good to know what dialogue (if any) took place between the club and Brigada before the events of last weds night ??
I'm hoping the ban is temporary and they can work out a compromise. These lads and lasses are top fans and too good to lose.
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Exactly, and why don't they tell the council to fuck off and cite the various other events that go on under their watch where the same stringent conditions are applied.
Im guessing that they remember the 70's and 80's where football as a whole was a very violent and dangerous place. They are probably shit scared that even this small group may start causing trouble. Quite possibly wrongly as I know a lad who sits in l8 and hes more likly to go home and watch harry potter than go out fighting after a game but unfortunatly the rules are there and the club have to follow them.
They don't follow them, though. There are plenty of matches where there are large groups of people standing, totally unbothered by the stewards.
I appreciate that it's easier to approach a group of 50 than 5,000, that goes without saying, but really, I wonder if the club's attitude to these people is affected by the fact they're young, enthusiastic and have a slightly different approach to supporting the team.
Ultimately football clubs want us all spending big bucks to get in, then sitting quietly in our seats. It's not entirely their fault that it is like that, but with things the way they are, that's definitely what they want.
I am not a defender of standing usually - mainly because I feel sorry for the people who want to sit down but can't because everyone else is standing - but it's hard not to believe the powers that be, at every level, just want a load of docile, no-bother middle class people buying their expensive tickets, sitting down not saying boo to a goose, and then fucking off on 90 minutes.
But Villa don't want us sitting on our arses quietly do they? If they did they wouldn't be one of the leading supporters to bring back standing.
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The entire Kop appeared to be on their feet for 95 mins today !?!?
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The entire Kop appeared to be on their feet for 95 mins today !?!?
Someone had nicked the chairs.
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Exactly, and why don't they tell the council to fuck off and cite the various other events that go on under their watch where the same stringent conditions are applied.
Im guessing that they remember the 70's and 80's where football as a whole was a very violent and dangerous place. They are probably shit scared that even this small group may start causing trouble. Quite possibly wrongly as I know a lad who sits in l8 and hes more likly to go home and watch harry potter than go out fighting after a game but unfortunatly the rules are there and the club have to follow them.
They don't follow them, though. There are plenty of matches where there are large groups of people standing, totally unbothered by the stewards.
I appreciate that it's easier to approach a group of 50 than 5,000, that goes without saying, but really, I wonder if the club's attitude to these people is affected by the fact they're young, enthusiastic and have a slightly different approach to supporting the team.
Ultimately football clubs want us all spending big bucks to get in, then sitting quietly in our seats. It's not entirely their fault that it is like that, but with things the way they are, that's definitely what they want.
I am not a defender of standing usually - mainly because I feel sorry for the people who want to sit down but can't because everyone else is standing - but it's hard not to believe the powers that be, at every level, just want a load of docile, no-bother middle class people buying their expensive tickets, sitting down not saying boo to a goose, and then fucking off on 90 minutes.
But Villa don't want us sitting on our arses quietly do they? If they did they wouldn't be one of the leading supporters to bring back standing.
That's the way it is at the moment. I appreciate we wanted to run a trial but that's really not much in terms of opposing all-seating.
If there was any real desire amongst football clubs to bring back safe standing, it would have happened years ago.
I also wonder if it's just the standing that bothers them about these kids. It's them being different that they don't like.
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They are different in a good and positive way though aren't they ? Or am I missing something ?
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Is it probable that having a website that states that you intend to break a football grounds health and safety rules is grounds enough for being targeted?
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The entire Kop appeared to be on their feet for 95 mins today !?!?
Someone had nicked the chairs.
There was 2 rows at the front of the kop taped off today,Liverpool have had problems with their council as well.
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Point still stands though Paulie that Aston Villa support bringing back standing. Not a viewpoint a club that wants no atmosphere and us sitting down like we're in church would want in my opinion. The main reason safe standing is no nearer is that it doesn't appear many other clubs want to join us in supporting it.
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Point still stands though Paulie that Aston Villa support bringing back standing. Not a viewpoint a club that wants no atmosphere and us sitting down like we're in church would want in my opinion. The main reason safe standing is no nearer is that it doesn't appear many other clubs want to join us in supporting it.
Man City is the only other club I can think of.
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Point still stands though Paulie that Aston Villa support bringing back standing. Not a viewpoint a club that wants no atmosphere and us sitting down like we're in church would want in my opinion. The main reason safe standing is no nearer is that it doesn't appear many other clubs want to join us in supporting it.
Man City is the only other club I can think of.
If say, 15+ plus clubs in both the top flight and Championship were as in favour of it as we are then it may be nearer to happening. We'll never know, but i'm disappointed so few clubs have supported the idea of it.
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Point still stands though Paulie that Aston Villa support bringing back standing. Not a viewpoint a club that wants no atmosphere and us sitting down like we're in church would want in my opinion.
Those are two different points, though. Villa want to bring back standing is one point.
But currently, with no safe standing allowed, they want everyone sat on their arses. The fact they want standing returned (or to explore it happening) doesn't mean they're any less proactive as other clubs in trying to get people to sit down and shut up in the meantime.
The thing I don't understand is why are they so selective about when they decide to do something about it? Is it coincidence that it's these people who are not just standing up, but also making a racket?
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"Safe Standing Campaign aims: To persuade the Government, football authorities and football clubs to accept the case for introducing, on a trial basis, limited sections of standing areas at selected grounds in the stadiums of Premier League and Championship football clubs.
Supported by: Aldershot Town, Aston Villa, Barnsley, Brentford, Bristol City, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Derby County, Doncaster Rovers, Exeter City, Hull City, Leeds United, Oldham Athletic, Peterborough United, Plymouth Argyle, Portsmouth, Shrewsbury Town, Sunderland, Swansea City, Swindon Town, Watford, AFC Wimbledon, Wolverhampton Wanderers, the Scottish Premier League, the Safe Standing Roadshow and Stand Up Sit Down."
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/
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Point still stands though Paulie that Aston Villa support bringing back standing. Not a viewpoint a club that wants no atmosphere and us sitting down like we're in church would want in my opinion.
Those are two different points, though. Villa want to bring back standing is one point.
But currently, with no safe standing allowed, they want everyone sat on their arses. The fact they want standing returned (or to explore it happening) doesn't mean they're any less proactive as other clubs in trying to get people to sit down and shut up in the meantime.
The thing I don't understand is why are they so selective about when they decide to do something about it? Is it coincidence that it's these people who are not just standing up, but also making a racket?
Fair point on the first part, but i'm still not convinced that a club so in favour of safe standing wants a quiet ground.
Surely if it was just standing up and making a racket they would go after R1? They stand non stop, are a lot noisier, and far more visible, than Brigada.
Standing and singing is not the only reason they have been targeted.
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Point still stands though Paulie that Aston Villa support bringing back standing. Not a viewpoint a club that wants no atmosphere and us sitting down like we're in church would want in my opinion.
Those are two different points, though. Villa want to bring back standing is one point.
But currently, with no safe standing allowed, they want everyone sat on their arses. The fact they want standing returned (or to explore it happening) doesn't mean they're any less proactive as other clubs in trying to get people to sit down and shut up in the meantime.
The thing I don't understand is why are they so selective about when they decide to do something about it? Is it coincidence that it's these people who are not just standing up, but also making a racket?
Or is the people who have made a show of flaunting ground regs by organising themselves not to sit down? There will be games this season where circumstances dictate that I'll stand all match however I will not be setting out with the objective not to sit.
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"Safe Standing Campaign aims: To persuade the Government, football authorities and football clubs to accept the case for introducing, on a trial basis, limited sections of standing areas at selected grounds in the stadiums of Premier League and Championship football clubs.
Supported by: Aldershot Town, Aston Villa, Barnsley, Brentford, Bristol City, Burnley, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Derby County, Doncaster Rovers, Exeter City, Hull City, Leeds United, Oldham Athletic, Peterborough United, Plymouth Argyle, Portsmouth, Shrewsbury Town, Sunderland, Swansea City, Swindon Town, Watford, AFC Wimbledon, Wolverhampton Wanderers, the Scottish Premier League, the Safe Standing Roadshow and Stand Up Sit Down."
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/
Which backs up my point, not enough of the "bigger" clubs are in favour. Until they are it will never happen, sadly. Us and Sunderland are the only current big(ish) hitters in the English league backing it. Next biggest are Leeds and Wolves.
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Man City are up for it somebody should tell the fsf
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/329/8340885/man-city-back-standing-fans
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Funny how away fans always stand up. What's that all about ? Is there a psychiatrist in the house ?
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Point still stands though Paulie that Aston Villa support bringing back standing. Not a viewpoint a club that wants no atmosphere and us sitting down like we're in church would want in my opinion.
Those are two different points, though. Villa want to bring back standing is one point.
But currently, with no safe standing allowed, they want everyone sat on their arses. The fact they want standing returned (or to explore it happening) doesn't mean they're any less proactive as other clubs in trying to get people to sit down and shut up in the meantime.
The thing I don't understand is why are they so selective about when they decide to do something about it? Is it coincidence that it's these people who are not just standing up, but also making a racket?
I don't think they want people sat, they don't want part of the ground closed.
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The Emirates lower tier behind the goals is 100% everyone stood up.
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The Emirates lower tier behind the goals is 100% everyone stood up.
Half of them are Spurs fans..........complain to the council
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
Well done to our club, who have a damn fine track record in supporter relations in recent times.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
So, any "real" reason/explanation given for why they were (badly treated) ejected in the first place?
Just standing?
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
So, any "real" reason/explanation given for why they were (badly treated) ejected in the first place?
Just standing?
Rules is rules, and sometimes the people who make up the rules insist that they're seen to be obeyed.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
So, any "real" reason/explanation given for why they were (badly treated) ejected in the first place?
Just standing?
Rules is rules, and sometimes the people who make up the rules insist that they're seen to be obeyed.
But then apologise for it?
Surely that sends out a bit of a confused message?
Just seems a bit odd in the circumstances and wondered if the lads had any "official" or unofficial explanation behind the apology.
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Apparently not all was true with the stewards version of events.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
So, any "real" reason/explanation given for why they were (badly treated) ejected in the first place?
Just standing?
Rules is rules, and sometimes the people who make up the rules insist that they're seen to be obeyed.
But then apologise for it?
Surely that sends out a bit of a confused message?
Just seems a bit odd in the circumstances and wondered if the lads had any "official" or unofficial explanation behind the apology.
It isn't them that make the rules.
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A bit of heavy handedness on their part then? Acting on whose authority? BCC/Security or ad lib?
Interesting to see how things pan out with the Brigada lads at the Newcastle game.
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A bit of heavy handedness on their part then? Acting on whose authority? BCC/Security or ad lib?
Interesting to see how things pan out with the Brigada lads at the Newcastle game.
From what I can gather they've been leaned on by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and the council's licensing committee, or whatever it's called.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
I do like a happy ending.
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A bit of heavy handedness on their part then? Acting on whose authority? BCC/Security or ad lib?
Interesting to see how things pan out with the Brigada lads at the Newcastle game.
From what I can gather they've been leaned on by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and the council's licensing committee, or whatever it's called.
The old H&S bods baring their teeth again!
Cheers Dave; makes it a bit clearer.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
So, any "real" reason/explanation given for why they were (badly treated) ejected in the first place?
Just standing?
Rules is rules, and sometimes the people who make up the rules insist that they're seen to be obeyed.
But then apologise for it?
Surely that sends out a bit of a confused message?
Just seems a bit odd in the circumstances and wondered if the lads had any "official" or unofficial explanation behind the apology.
It's worth re-reading what monsXI wrote, the bold bit in particular.
The apology isn't for kicking out people who were standing, it's for banning the people who left in support, at least that's how it sounds to me. Maybe someone who can face logging on to the Brigada site and has access to the main bit can clarify.
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A bit of heavy handedness on their part then? Acting on whose authority? BCC/Security or ad lib?
Interesting to see how things pan out with the Brigada lads at the Newcastle game.
From what I can gather they've been leaned on by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and the council's licensing committee, or whatever it's called.
The old H&S bods baring their teeth again!
Cheers Dave; makes it a bit clearer.
So the 'something more to it' that I put up a few days ago seems to be perfectly correct. If people thought about the clubs approach to fans a little more most would've reached the same conclusion.
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A bit of heavy handedness on their part then? Acting on whose authority? BCC/Security or ad lib?
Interesting to see how things pan out with the Brigada lads at the Newcastle game.
From what I can gather they've been leaned on by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and the council's licensing committee, or whatever it's called.
I know everyone has a job to do and supporter safety should be uppermost on our minds but don't you just love Quangos and their sense of priority. If that's the case maybe a few letters to your local councillor may be in order Raising with them about how council officials are executing their duties.
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Thanks paul_e.
Didn't read it closely enough.
The "something more to it" that we discussed several days ago was a bit too vague to pin on any particular party. "more to it" regarding the Brigada lads' conduct, or behind the actions of the stewards.
Inevitably, combination of both.
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A bit of heavy handedness on their part then? Acting on whose authority? BCC/Security or ad lib?
Interesting to see how things pan out with the Brigada lads at the Newcastle game.
From what I can gather they've been leaned on by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and the council's licensing committee, or whatever it's called.
The old H&S bods baring their teeth again!
Cheers Dave; makes it a bit clearer.
So the 'something more to it' that I put up a few days ago seems to be perfectly correct. If people thought about the clubs approach to fans a little more most would've reached the same conclusion.
Everybody knows the council have Been banging on about standing for years there wasn't something more to it.
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Brigada clearly didn't or they wouldn't have stated they were going to stand all game!!
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Brigada clearly didn't or they wouldn't have stated they were going to stand all game!!
Neither did I.
Or I wouldn't have stood at any game ever!
Honest!
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Brigada clearly didn't or they wouldn't have stated they were going to stand all game!!
True.
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Sorry, but even I know that.
Ergo Brigada are Martians.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
So, any "real" reason/explanation given for why they were (badly treated) ejected in the first place?
Just standing?
Rules is rules, and sometimes the people who make up the rules insist that they're seen to be obeyed.
But then apologise for it?
Surely that sends out a bit of a confused message?
Just seems a bit odd in the circumstances and wondered if the lads had any "official" or unofficial explanation behind the apology.
It's worth re-reading what monsXI wrote, the bold bit in particular.
The apology isn't for kicking out people who were standing, it's for banning the people who left in support, at least that's how it sounds to me. Maybe someone who can face logging on to the Brigada site and has access to the main bit can clarify.
One of those ejected was unbanned and others who had tickets confiscated and ST blocked received the apology.
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Club has apologized to the guys who got banned with out being kicked out, unblocked there STs and even offered a free tour of VP b4 match to let them see the security set up.
So, any "real" reason/explanation given for why they were (badly treated) ejected in the first place?
Just standing?
Rules is rules, and sometimes the people who make up the rules insist that they're seen to be obeyed.
But then apologise for it?
Surely that sends out a bit of a confused message?
Just seems a bit odd in the circumstances and wondered if the lads had any "official" or unofficial explanation behind the apology.
It's worth re-reading what monsXI wrote, the bold bit in particular.
The apology isn't for kicking out people who were standing, it's for banning the people who left in support, at least that's how it sounds to me. Maybe someone who can face logging on to the Brigada site and has access to the main bit can clarify.
One of those ejected was unbanned and others who had tickets confiscated and ST blocked received the apology.
But not all?
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
And arrested, hopefully.
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
Jackanory time again!
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
And arrested, hopefully.
Pardon?
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
Jackanory time again!
Fucking Twilight Zone more like.
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
And arrested, hopefully.
Pardon?
Anyone who sends a threatening letter to anyone, whatever the circumstance - and nobody seriously believes that's the case here - should be arrested.
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
There can't be many clubs in the country that has more and better dialogue with supporters, and in particular with this group, but you can't talk to people who won't listen.
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
And arrested, hopefully.
Pardon?
Anyone who sends a threatening letter to anyone, whatever the circumstance - and nobody seriously believes that's the case here - should be arrested.
In principle, yes.
The Brigada threatening letter thing remains a nasty bit of goss in reality then!
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
And arrested, hopefully.
Pardon?
Anyone who sends a threatening letter to anyone, whatever the circumstance - and nobody seriously believes that's the case here - should be arrested.
In principle, yes.
The Brigada threatening letter thing remains a nasty bit of goss in reality then!
Yes, the voices in Dan's head never shut up about it.
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
Are you me?
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
Are you me?
I dunno, are these Dan's voices that Percy was on about?
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
Are you me?
I dunno, are these Dan's voices that Percy was on about?
No Lee. Dan, and all of his voices, are from the Dark Side!
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
There can't be many clubs in the country that has more and better dialogue with supporters, and in particular with this group, but you can't talk to people who won't listen.
I know Dave, but I suppose my frustration is in why the issue is being pushed back more.
In short, why are these football supporters treated differently to spectators of other events?
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
There can't be many clubs in the country that has more and better dialogue with supporters, and in particular with this group, but you can't talk to people who won't listen.
I know Dave, but I suppose my frustration is in why the issue is being pushed back more.
In short, why are these football supporters treated differently to spectators of other events?
Because a) rules are different at football grounds and b) these supporters make it clear that on every occasion they will break them.
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I don't get Brigada's stance here.
They are in the perfect place to speak to the club on safe standing and help the club push this to the authorities, after all they are exactly what safe standing should be bought back for, to create a part of the ground where young lads can enthusiastically stand, shout, sing, wave flags and support the team without breaking any rules or annoying anyone else in the ground.
Instead of being confrontational and insisting on breaking the ground regulations no matter what, how about a campaign of disgruntled obedience, but at the same time highlighting and promoting the fact that petty rules are preventing you from fully enjoying your matchday experience and Villa Park is poorer in atmosphere as a result?
And above all WORK WITH THE CLUB NOT AGAINST THEM!
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Viva Brigada
Villa's very own Les Miserables . I can feel a hit musical here in the making.
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I don't get Brigada's stance here.
They are in the perfect place to speak to the club on safe standing and help the club push this to the authorities, after all they are exactly what safe standing should be bought back for, to create a part of the ground where young lads can enthusiastically stand, shout, sing, wave flags and support the team without breaking any rules or annoying anyone else in the ground.
Instead of being confrontational and insisting on breaking the ground regulations no matter what, how about a campaign of disgruntled obedience, but at the same time highlighting and promoting the fact that petty rules are preventing you from fully enjoying your matchday experience and Villa Park is poorer in atmosphere as a result?
And above all WORK WITH THE CLUB NOT AGAINST THEM!
Yes, but that's the wisdom of age talking.
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Viva Brigada
Villa's very own Les Miserables . I can feel a hit musical here in the making.
Including a couple of numbers by The Phil Upchurch Combo and Sam and Dave.
Any guesses?
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Hold On, I'm Coming.
Song title folks, not a statement made in the throes of .... thingummy!!!
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I'm a boring old twat now who enjoys watching from the Upper Trinity, watching the game closely, but I'm not very happy at all about what seems to have happened here.
I don't see why the club can't be more open if there are these issues with the council. If it means a covert operation to remove paying bloody customers, how about maybe having better dialog in the first place, with the supporters as a whole.
Maybe, by bringing it to a wider audience, that might bring pressure to the authorities to look again at how they're policing it.
However, my guess is that none of those in authority have any desire to see a group of enthusiastic, bright lads forming some kind of organisation.
Could be trouble.
There can't be many clubs in the country that has more and better dialogue with supporters, and in particular with this group, but you can't talk to people who won't listen.
I know Dave, but I suppose my frustration is in why the issue is being pushed back more.
In short, why are these football supporters treated differently to spectators of other events?
Because a) rules are different at football grounds and b) these supporters make it clear that on every occasion they will break them.
Fair enough, but couldn't you just refuse to sell them the tickets in the first place, without the snatch squads and filming ban?
I still think more could be done, probably as Cooper says on both sides, to push the issue a bit more.
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Viva Brigada
Villa's very own Les Miserables . I can feel a hit musical here in the making.
What exactly is your problem? The club are, as ever, bending over backwards to try to talk to these people and all you can do is moan and say they've been doing everything wrong lately. Incidentally, what is this litany of mistakes that you keep on about ?
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I now don't get what's going on. Who's been apologised to? Is it everyone who was ejected on Wednesday, or just some of them?
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What's my problem ? It's an opinion is that allowed ?
Well the big mistake is the handling charge applied to ticket sales. Even cash sales.
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I don't get Brigada's stance here.
They are in the perfect place to speak to the club on safe standing and help the club push this to the authorities, after all they are exactly what safe standing should be bought back for, to create a part of the ground where young lads can enthusiastically stand, shout, sing, wave flags and support the team without breaking any rules or annoying anyone else in the ground.
Instead of being confrontational and insisting on breaking the ground regulations no matter what, how about a campaign of disgruntled obedience, but at the same time highlighting and promoting the fact that petty rules are preventing you from fully enjoying your matchday experience and Villa Park is poorer in atmosphere as a result?
And above all WORK WITH THE CLUB NOT AGAINST THEM!
I'm not knocking the club in any way here, but do we have "plans" for working towards safe standing?
I know the club have been very public in expressing support for it, but I am genuinely unaware of any strategy that we can be a part of to help make it happen.
As LeeB says, dialogue with the fans, including Brigada, regarding this would be very welcome, especially in this current situation. I am aware of dialogue being held between the club and Brigada on previous occasions, but the more of us that can support the move for safe standing the better. It doesn't have to be a venture exclusive to involvement by the Brigada lads, if that is what they are after.
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What's my problem ? It's an opinion is that allowed ?
Well the big mistake is the handling charge applied to ticket sales. Even cash sales.
The club had no say in having to apply a handling charge. I think they applied the minimum possible. It was all explained on the OS.
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What's my problem ? It's an opinion is that allowed ?
Well the big mistake is the handling charge applied to ticket sales. Even cash sales.
The club had no say in having to apply a handling charge. I think they applied the minimum possible. It was all explained on the OS.
No, it was definitely a mistake. But at the end of the day they reversed the decision and admitted it, something they didn't have to do. As for this, we don't even know if it is a mistake yet. Beyond the usual forum supposition we don't know the whole story.
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
And how does that equate with "The club have let themselves down again, not for the first time in the last few weeks." and "The club sure knows how to shoot itself in the foot on a regular basis," amongst others?
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What's my problem ? It's an opinion is that allowed ?
Well the big mistake is the handling charge applied to ticket sales. Even cash sales.
Here we go again. Somebody says something, they get challenged and immediately it's "Ooh, I'm not allowed to have an opinion." They made a decision that was unpopular and it was reversed within days.
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
Can't remember exactly what was said but PF did say something along the lines of doing what they thought was best at the time but it went wrong and they had moved to put it right.
I'm sure someone can come up with the quote or whatever.
I took it as a not particulalrly well-veiled "oops, sorry!".
Apology?
UTV!
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Why would the club ever issue an apology for appointing the wrong manager? Should it extend to players as well? How about office staff?
I don't get why some people expect a statement from the club on everything, get a grip.
As for meeting both ways I'm not sure what the club can do if Brigada insist on standing for 90minutes, that's not allowed, end of story, Brigada have to back down over it. As for safe standing I'm sure anyone interested could contact the club to find out if there is anything the fans can do to help so if you're interested try making contact. The club has made a clear commitment to the safe standing initiative so the fans need to show that it's something they want to push through, particularly groups like Brigada for whom such an area would be intended.
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
Why would you?
How many clubs have ever apologised for a managerial appointment?
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What's my problem ? It's an opinion is that allowed ?
Well the big mistake is the handling charge applied to ticket sales. Even cash sales.
The club had no say in having to apply a handling charge. I think they applied the minimum possible. It was all explained on the OS.
Well, that's not strictly true, given that they subsequently (and admirably) reversed the decision.
So there clearly was a choice there - apply it to cash sales, or don't apply it.
In the "bad" column, they introduced a risible charge in the first place. In the "good" column, they listened to complaints and got rid of it.
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In the "good" column, they listened to complaints and got rid of it.
A bit like Mcleish really.
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
Can't remember exactly what was said but PF did say something along the lines of doing what they thought was best at the time but it went wrong and they had moved to put it right.
I'm sure someone can come up with the quote or whatever.
I took it as a not particulalrly well-veiled "oops, sorry!".
Apology?
UTV!
Although I gave the response I did, I took silhill's comment to be a bit of a joke!??
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
Can't remember exactly what was said but PF did say something along the lines of doing what they thought was best at the time but it went wrong and they had moved to put it right.
I'm sure someone can come up with the quote or whatever.
I took it as a not particulalrly well-veiled "oops, sorry!".
Apology?
UTV!
Although I gave the response I did, I took silhill's comment to be a bit of a joke!??
I did too. Who knows?
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
Why would you?
How many clubs have ever apologised for a managerial appointment?
Stoke City did after 7 games of Chris Kamara in charge. They described it as "a nightmare for all concerned"
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I don't think I've ever seen a public apology for the McLeish appointment .
Can't remember exactly what was said but PF did say something along the lines of doing what they thought was best at the time but it went wrong and they had moved to put it right.
I'm sure someone can come up with the quote or whatever.
I took it as a not particulalrly well-veiled "oops, sorry!".
Apology?
UTV!
Although I gave the response I did, I took silhill's comment to be a bit of a joke!??
I did too. Who knows?
Yes it was a bit tongue in cheek.
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Why would the club ever issue an apology for appointing the wrong manager? Should it extend to players as well? How about office staff?
I don't get why some people expect a statement from the club on everything, get a grip.
As for meeting both ways I'm not sure what the club can do if Brigada insist on standing for 90minutes, that's not allowed, end of story, Brigada have to back down over it. As for safe standing I'm sure anyone interested could contact the club to find out if there is anything the fans can do to help so if you're interested try making contact. The club has made a clear commitment to the safe standing initiative so the fans need to show that it's something they want to push through, particularly groups like Brigada for whom such an area would be intended.
Surely the club is in a better position to glean the coordinated views and support of fans than numerous fans individually contacting the club to find out what's happening, if anything.
I will do my best to call in the next day or two and see what they say, if work allows.
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With McLeish, practically until the end of the season, I was absolutely convinced they'd stand by him and not sack him - much in the way they stood by Lambert last season.
I think that made the whole horrible season even more unpleasant, the feeling that this torture by boredom might go on for ages.
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With McLeish, practically until the end of the season, I was absolutely convinced they'd stand by him and not sack him - much in the way they stood by Lambert last season.
I think that made the whole horrible season even more unpleasant, the feeling that this torture by boredom might go on for ages.
No chance , McLeish's fate was sealed after the midweek home loss to Bolton. That's my opinion only of course.
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I'm not knocking the club in any way here, but do we have "plans" for working towards safe standing?
I know the club have been very public in expressing support for it, but I am genuinely unaware of any strategy that we can be a part of to help make it happen.
As LeeB says, dialogue with the fans, including Brigada, regarding this would be very welcome, especially in this current situation. I am aware of dialogue being held between the club and Brigada on previous occasions, but the more of us that can support the move for safe standing the better. It doesn't have to be a venture exclusive to involvement by the Brigada lads, if that is what they are after.
I don't know if Villa have "plans" but they did openly express support and even went as far as showing a part of the ground they would like to use as an experiment and the type of collapsible seating that could be used.
I know it shouldn't be exclusive to Brigada, but as I said, they are in a great position to exploit the club's apparent support for safe standing. It is made for the likes of Brigada. But instead they seem intent on confrontation rather than consultation. The heavy handed stewarding on Wednesday night could have been another way for them to open discussions rather than getting all anti-authority. Tell the club that they will (by and large) agree to not stand throughout the game as long as the club agree to meet and discuss a way forward.
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Send a threatening letter. That will get you banned, for sure.
And arrested, hopefully.
Pardon?
Anyone who sends a threatening letter to anyone, whatever the circumstance - and nobody seriously believes that's the case here - should be arrested.
Including Facebook / Twitter comments and what is posted on forums.
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As for safe standing I'm sure anyone interested could contact the club to find out if there is anything the fans can do to help so if you're interested try making contact. The club has made a clear commitment to the safe standing initiative so the fans need to show that it's something they want to push through, particularly groups like Brigada for whom such an area would be intended.
I have been in touch, and will be meeting the club about how I/we can help to push safe standing through. Basically, they need clear evidence that the fans want it. The evidence that fans stand anyway is not admissible, because the authorities don't view that as a movement for safe standing, they view as a bunch of troublemakers refusing to do as they are told. (I need to emphasise that this is not a personal view of people who stand - a lot of the time I am one of them)
I have some ideas for canvassing, and have finally decided that I am going to give up some pre-match time to do it, even if it is just me. However, if any one is interested in working with me, the sooner we can get this done and the sooner I can go back to drinking. I have resisted doing this for ages because it is a disruption to my match day routine, but after Wednesday I did just reach the point where I thought that I can watch the atmosphere get progressively more docile season by season, or I can try to do something about it.......and I need to try.
I am thinking an hour or so pre-match, talking to people in your own stand about the law and the reasons why the club can't just let us stand now, and what safe standing looks like, and gathering supporters views (in a balanced way, not just the pro standing ones) We don't need a petition as there is already a generic safe standing petition online, and we would be petitioning the converted, the club want to move on this, they simply need evidence it is what we want. It would be more like canvassing, & getting an informed conversation going amongst the support. However, I'll know more after I've met up with the club and I'll get back to you. in the meantime it would be good to know whether anyone would help out, as it'd give me an idea what I'm up against. If my previous experience is anything to go by, it will be just me!
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As for safe standing I'm sure anyone interested could contact the club to find out if there is anything the fans can do to help so if you're interested try making contact. The club has made a clear commitment to the safe standing initiative so the fans need to show that it's something they want to push through, particularly groups like Brigada for whom such an area would be intended.
I have been in touch, and will be meeting the club about how I/we can help to push safe standing through. Basically, they need clear evidence that the fans want it. The evidence that fans stand anyway is not admissible, because the authorities don't view that as a movement for safe standing, they view as a bunch of troublemakers refusing to do as they are told. (I need to emphasise that this is not a personal view of people who stand - a lot of the time I am one of them)
I have some ideas for canvassing, and have finally decided that I am going to give up some pre-match time to do it, even if it is just me. However, if any one is interested in working with me, the sooner we can get this done and the sooner I can go back to drinking. I have resisted doing this for ages because it is a disruption to my match day routine, but after Wednesday I did just reach the point where I thought that I can watch the atmosphere get progressively more docile season by season, or I can try to do something about it.......and I need to try.
I am thinking an hour or so pre-match, talking to people in your own stand about the law and the reasons why the club can't just let us stand now, and what safe standing looks like, and gathering supporters views (in a balanced way, not just the pro standing ones) We don't need a petition as there is already a generic safe standing petition online, and we would be petitioning the converted, the club want to move on this, they simply need evidence it is what we want. It would be more like canvassing, & getting an informed conversation going amongst the support. However, I'll know more after I've met up with the club and I'll get back to you. in the meantime it would be good to know whether anyone would help out, as it'd give me an idea what I'm up against. If my previous experience is anything to go by, it will be just me!
New thread needed to take this out of the general Brigada discussions?
Good luck though, and if you don't get the support of the Brigada movement in this then one can only assume they don't want to talk to other fans and the club or they consider pre-match refreshments as more important.
There's a challenge for you Brigada! Amfy is your leader!
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I have been in touch, and will be meeting the club about how I/we can help to push safe standing through. Basically, they need clear evidence that the fans want it. The evidence that fans stand anyway is not admissible, because the authorities don't view that as a movement for safe standing, they view as a bunch of troublemakers refusing to do as they are told. (I need to emphasise that this is not a personal view of people who stand - a lot of the time I am one of them)
I have some ideas for canvassing, and have finally decided that I am going to give up some pre-match time to do it, even if it is just me. However, if any one is interested in working with me, the sooner we can get this done and the sooner I can go back to drinking. I have resisted doing this for ages because it is a disruption to my match day routine, but after Wednesday I did just reach the point where I thought that I can watch the atmosphere get progressively more docile season by season, or I can try to do something about it.......and I need to try.
I, for one, wish that clubs/stewards would enforce the all seated rule at away games
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Safe standing would be good, if the majority call for it.
The lower North would be a good place , as would a section in the lower Holte.
It seems to be very popular in Germany and it certainly increases the atmosphere in the ground.
There would be , i assume , a mountain of HSE work to be done before anything would be considered.
The last time i went to Man City a group of us were nearly ejected because of standing to much during the first half.
At half time i went and had a word with one of the stewards and asked him why they were so heavy handed, alongside the police as well by the way.
His answer was spot on and went something like this- " We do not mind standing so much if you are in the lower tier, but in the upper, the grade of the slope is to great for us to allow standing for any length of time. It is HSE rules and we have to abide by them or face huge fines and possible ground closure. This is not just aimed at football, but any concert, other meetings or large gatherings."
So there we go. Without massive ground re-development, only certain areas of our ground will be able to be used for safe standing areas. That rules out any upper tier area, because of the grade of the slope. I could see a very good argument for the lower North and possibly, the whole of the lower Holte, but again, season ticket holders have to be given the right to object if they are not in favor.
Lots to be done on this. Good luck amfy. If i were still living in the UK you would have my support and backing at every home game.
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I have been in touch, and will be meeting the club about how I/we can help to push safe standing through. Basically, they need clear evidence that the fans want it. The evidence that fans stand anyway is not admissible, because the authorities don't view that as a movement for safe standing, they view as a bunch of troublemakers refusing to do as they are told. (I need to emphasise that this is not a personal view of people who stand - a lot of the time I am one of them)
I have some ideas for canvassing, and have finally decided that I am going to give up some pre-match time to do it, even if it is just me. However, if any one is interested in working with me, the sooner we can get this done and the sooner I can go back to drinking. I have resisted doing this for ages because it is a disruption to my match day routine, but after Wednesday I did just reach the point where I thought that I can watch the atmosphere get progressively more docile season by season, or I can try to do something about it.......and I need to try.
I, for one, wish that clubs/stewards would enforce the all seated rule at away games
I, for two, wish the same. I used to go with the old fella but he simply cant stand for 45 minutes at a time now so the only away game we went to last season was Fulham and we got tickets in the Fulham side of the neutral end. Suggesting to the old fella that we get disabled seats at away matches resulted in a torrent of abuse from him. I wouldn't feel right going without him so we both miss out.
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I prefer standing at away games if i'm honest. I know it's a bit selfish and totally inconvenient for the likes of Breezeblock's dad and that's such a shame really. Let's hope at some point safe standing comes back.
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I prefer standing at away games if i'm honest. I know it's a bit selfish and totally inconvenient for the likes of Breezeblock's dad and that's such a shame really. Let's hope at some point safe standing comes back.
you get no choice most of the time, against Chelsea the only time I sat down was at half time,
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As for safe standing I'm sure anyone interested could contact the club to find out if there is anything the fans can do to help so if you're interested try making contact. The club has made a clear commitment to the safe standing initiative so the fans need to show that it's something they want to push through, particularly groups like Brigada for whom such an area would be intended.
I have been in touch, and will be meeting the club about how I/we can help to push safe standing through. Basically, they need clear evidence that the fans want it. The evidence that fans stand anyway is not admissible, because the authorities don't view that as a movement for safe standing, they view as a bunch of troublemakers refusing to do as they are told. (I need to emphasise that this is not a personal view of people who stand - a lot of the time I am one of them)
I have some ideas for canvassing, and have finally decided that I am going to give up some pre-match time to do it, even if it is just me. However, if any one is interested in working with me, the sooner we can get this done and the sooner I can go back to drinking. I have resisted doing this for ages because it is a disruption to my match day routine, but after Wednesday I did just reach the point where I thought that I can watch the atmosphere get progressively more docile season by season, or I can try to do something about it.......and I need to try.
I am thinking an hour or so pre-match, talking to people in your own stand about the law and the reasons why the club can't just let us stand now, and what safe standing looks like, and gathering supporters views (in a balanced way, not just the pro standing ones) We don't need a petition as there is already a generic safe standing petition online, and we would be petitioning the converted, the club want to move on this, they simply need evidence it is what we want. It would be more like canvassing, & getting an informed conversation going amongst the support. However, I'll know more after I've met up with the club and I'll get back to you. in the meantime it would be good to know whether anyone would help out, as it'd give me an idea what I'm up against. If my previous experience is anything to go by, it will be just me!
Good man, I hope some of the people who've been more vocal on here regarding this subject take notice of this, if you talk to the club in a reasonable way they are more than happy to work with supporters.
I really hope you get some interest in with Amfy as I'd love to see safe standing introduced, just a shame I can't offer to help out.
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As for safe standing I'm sure anyone interested could contact the club to find out if there is anything the fans can do to help so if you're interested try making contact. The club has made a clear commitment to the safe standing initiative so the fans need to show that it's something they want to push through, particularly groups like Brigada for whom such an area would be intended.
I have been in touch, and will be meeting the club about how I/we can help to push safe standing through. Basically, they need clear evidence that the fans want it. The evidence that fans stand anyway is not admissible, because the authorities don't view that as a movement for safe standing, they view as a bunch of troublemakers refusing to do as they are told. (I need to emphasise that this is not a personal view of people who stand - a lot of the time I am one of them)
I have some ideas for canvassing, and have finally decided that I am going to give up some pre-match time to do it, even if it is just me. However, if any one is interested in working with me, the sooner we can get this done and the sooner I can go back to drinking. I have resisted doing this for ages because it is a disruption to my match day routine, but after Wednesday I did just reach the point where I thought that I can watch the atmosphere get progressively more docile season by season, or I can try to do something about it.......and I need to try.
I am thinking an hour or so pre-match, talking to people in your own stand about the law and the reasons why the club can't just let us stand now, and what safe standing looks like, and gathering supporters views (in a balanced way, not just the pro standing ones) We don't need a petition as there is already a generic safe standing petition online, and we would be petitioning the converted, the club want to move on this, they simply need evidence it is what we want. It would be more like canvassing, & getting an informed conversation going amongst the support. However, I'll know more after I've met up with the club and I'll get back to you. in the meantime it would be good to know whether anyone would help out, as it'd give me an idea what I'm up against. If my previous experience is anything to go by, it will be just me!
Good man,
I really hope you get some interest in with Amfy as I'd love to see safe standing introduced, just a shame I can't offer to help out.
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Is it worth collaborating with supporters from other clubs who support the campaign e.g. Wolves, Man City?
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I'm liaising with the fsf as well & they'll help me get the most out of what I'm doing in terms of getting other clubs involved too.
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I'm liaising with the fsf as well & they'll help me get the most out of what I'm doing in terms of getting other clubs involved too.
Brilliant amfy. Not living in Brum means I rarely get to the ground early enough before kick-off to help out but I think it's a great idea and fantastic that you're taking this on. Very happy to PM you with my opinions on the subject if required. Much respect.
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Away sections are crying out for terraces really. Back in the day we'd get seat and terrace allocations which would be ideal now for people in Breezeblocks situation and mine to a lesser degree with my 11 years lad.
For these of you who are lucky enough not to be old enough to remember if you thought the celebrations for Lowtons goal at Stoke or the Gabby winners at blose was fun multiply that by 5 if standing on a terrace.
We do need them back. What's the Liverpool take on it? I guess they would be influential in the process.
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Away sections are crying out for terraces really. Back in the day we'd get seat and terrace allocations which would be ideal now for people in Breezeblocks situation and mine to a lesser degree with my 11 years lad.
For these of you who are lucky enough not to be old enough to remember if you thought the celebrations for Lowtons goal at Stoke or the Gabby winners at blose was fun multiply that by 5 if standing on a terrace.
We do need them back. What's the Liverpool take on it? I guess they would be influential in the process.
They're not really saying anything in public and I don't blame them.
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Great stuff amfy.
Contacted the club today who told me to enquire via email, which I have done.
Feel free to PM me with any info and I'll see what I can do.
Unfortunately I work Sat mornings so time on match days is very limited.
Do you have a link for the petition?
I'll search later on when head rises above the waters of the working day.
UTV!
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I will quite happily reply to any questions you wish to send via PM, amfy.
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Count me in too Amfy.
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Don't forget a lot of coaches will be leaving VP for the Hull game.Nab them before they get on board or get them to fill in a form on board.Im sure the club wouldn't mind.
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Needs a bit of careful handling right from the word go.
amfy meeting with the club is a big step in the right direction and to have that "form" or whatever, sanctioned and approved by the club would be a great vote in favour of what she is trying to do, and what many of us would like to see happen.
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The club are interested in the idea of a 'supporter led consultation' so We need to think of as many ways as we can of reaching all the different demographics in our fan base. Until I meet up with the club, I won't entirely know what is feasible/useful but I'm also thinking of doing a survey monkey & getting that out on all the forums & spreading it via twitter & facebook. My worry with this is that it could get hijacked by noses or something and end up being useless. I've also got a smaller paper survey to do in person with people on match days. Its impoortant to get it right under people's noses.
Getting on the away buses is a good idea - but I won't be around that morning, so if anyone who is going is prepared to wander up & down their coach with a clipboard, that'd be useful.
Thank you for all the offers of help, I will be going back through the thread when the time comes!
The national safe standing petition has been posted on this thread somewhere, & I haven't mastered cutting & pasting on the iPad yet. I will try and re-post it though.
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May be worth liaising with Steve Gough at Premier Travel.
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Just checked and it states that the petition is closed.
Bugger!
Starting things off at VP might regenerate wider interest, but as you say amfy, we don't want Noses etc messing it up!
Keep us informed so that we can do what we can.
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Away sections are crying out for terraces really. Back in the day we'd get seat and terrace allocations which would be ideal now for people in Breezeblocks situation and mine to a lesser degree with my 11 years lad.
For these of you who are lucky enough not to be old enough to remember if you thought the celebrations for Lowtons goal at Stoke or the Gabby winners at blose was fun multiply that by 5 if standing on a terrace.
We do need them back. What's the Liverpool take on it? I guess they would be influential in the process.
The celebrations for the Lowton goal at Stoke is exactly why im against the return of standing. I was in row 3 and despite trying to hold my ground I ended up sat on the advertising boards only just managing to stay off the pitch.
I also had a scratched face and buckled glasses.
I don't see the attraction of dealing with that week in week out.
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Away sections are crying out for terraces really. Back in the day we'd get seat and terrace allocations which would be ideal now for people in Breezeblocks situation and mine to a lesser degree with my 11 years lad.
For these of you who are lucky enough not to be old enough to remember if you thought the celebrations for Lowtons goal at Stoke or the Gabby winners at blose was fun multiply that by 5 if standing on a terrace.
We do need them back. What's the Liverpool take on it? I guess they would be influential in the process.
The celebrations for the Lowton goal at Stoke is exactly why im against the return of standing. I was in row 3 and despite trying to hold my ground I ended up sat on the advertising boards only just managing to stay off the pitch.
I also had a scratched face and buckled glasses.
I don't see the attraction of dealing with that week in week out.
You wouldn't have to. You could still sit down.
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I suppose that if introducing a standing area meant that the rest of the ground had strict enforcement of the seating rules then I might be persuaded to change my mind.
However for now i would like to see the rules adhered to and enforced by stewards.
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The key thing is there are fans that want standing and there should be provision to allow the club to offer the choice to the fans. make a big safe standing area for the home fans and you might find that standing becomes a 'moments of excitement' situation elsewhere, which benefits both demographics.
Really well done to Amfy as well, it's good to see something positive coming out of this thread after some of the silliness earlier on.
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The celebrations for the Lowton goal at Stoke is exactly why im against the return of standing. I was in row 3 and despite trying to hold my ground I ended up sat on the advertising boards only just managing to stay off the pitch.
I also had a scratched face and buckled glasses.
I don't see the attraction of dealing with that week in week out.
The thing is with the proposed safe standing is that this wouldn't happen if we adopt the same sort of "seats that convert to terracing" that the Bundesliga clubs use. Basically you will have a crush barrier right across every row (or two rows if they pack them in) of terracing. Less likely to cause a surge then your traditional open terrace and much safer than standing in rows of low-backed seating.
Somethng like this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Safe_standing_area_fitted_with_rail_seats.jpg/400px-Safe_standing_area_fitted_with_rail_seats.jpg)
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I want standing because of the Lowton goal. I nearly went over the seats in front twice and the seats behind once. It was only grabbing hold of some random blokes arm/jacket that I didn't face plant. Rail seats are the future for safe standing.
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Can not seem to put it as a youtube link (Removed the s for you!)
The German way
Also subscribe to SafeStandingRoadshow on youtube
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I want standing because of the Lowton goal. I nearly went over the seats in front twice and the seats behind once. It was only grabbing hold of some random blokes arm/jacket that I didn't face plant. Rail seats are the future for safe standing.
Exactly. Safe standing is nothing like terracing, and also far safer than the current situation of standing in seated areas. The situation UK redsox describes would be prevented by a safe standing set up because the rails are set at a height made for standing, which prevents toppling, rather than ending up with a domino effect over seats when it all goes off.
Safe standing is much more akin to our current situation of standing at our seats than old style terraces, except it is safer. You will still have a ticket for a designated standing space, which is yours. You will not be dealing with crushes, or surges like in the old days, and you won't be falling over your seat like now.
In Germany they do just sell general tickets for standing areas, without a designated spot, but we do not expect that to be the case here, at least not at first.
This will disappoint some people, but old style terraces are not coming back, and they are not coming back for 96 very good reasons. We are about safe standing - it is different.
It is also really important to remember that this also benefits people who want to sit. When we have designated standing areas, the people who want to stand will not be in front of you! The people who want to sit, can choose to sit and know that the persistent standers will be somewhere else.
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It is also really important to remember that this also benefits people who want to sit. When we have designated standing areas, the people who want to stand will not be in front of you! The people who want to sit, can choose to sit and know that the persistent standers will be somewhere else.
This is the key bit for me.
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If you are doing a survey just rememeber that you don't need a huge amount of responses to make it legit.
About 1-2% of our average attendance would be more than enough to get a balanced view that the club will take seriously [or should], you are looking at about 350 - 700.
If you canvase away support then it would be worth listing them seperately from the home fans as there view is likely to be more pro standing and the club will want to have a broad view accross the support base.
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Yes about the away support but also about other areas of the ground as well. It took me years to get my late Father season tickets in the upper trinity second row, and we never stood there, only when the ball hit the net. So any opinion there has to be tainted by relevance. The opinion of a lower holte ender would carry more weight as they have to stand a lot anyway.
As far as clubs go just ask fans if they'd pay more to stand. If they answer is yes then I dare say it would be fast tracked through!
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Seats in 'end' areas like the Holte, largely don't work. In the Holte I end up standing just to see. ( I am 60- but that's fine, it's my choice to be there) until the stewards become heavy handed because of current legislation and risk to the clubs of closure. These laws insisting on sitting at all times are simply not enforceable in football. It is not a West End theatre.
The German safe standing design is the answer. then strongly monitored seat areas for those who want to sit.
IMHO and there are stats from Germany, I think it SAFER than seats as PWS pointed out.
It needs permission from the FA, for a trial area which can be installed by the clubs whose supporters want them. Then a roll out if successful.
Good luck Amfy. The emotions against are still very strong. I support safe standing.
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May be worth liaising with Steve Gough at Premier Travel.
Good shout that. Steve is well connected and has been with Villa for, well, forever. Good bloke with vast knowledge.
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I also fully support safe standing. I prefer to sit (health issues) and would welcome designated safe standing areas and areas such as where I would choose to sit being seated. I do stand up when something exciting happens, though. In 2011-12 I think I stood up once.
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Glad people are behind this as the current situation isn't ideal, and as others have pointed out standing in current seated areas is more hazardous than in rail seated area like those seen around europe.
Amfy, if you go the online survey monkey route to collect your data could I suggest adding the option for people to add their client reference number to the survey so you can validate they are a current villa supporter. This may also be helpful for the club who could use the number to investigate the responses in terms of peoples current preferred place to sit at the VP and other data they might hold.
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May be worth liaising with Steve Gough at Premier Travel.
Good shout that. Steve is well connected and has been with Villa for, well, forever. Good bloke with vast knowledge.
Agree. I meant in terms of getting questionnaires into his coaches.
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May be worth liaising with Steve Gough at Premier Travel.
Good shout that. Steve is well connected and has been with Villa for, well, forever. Good bloke with vast knowledge.
Agree. I meant in terms of getting questionnaires into his coaches.
Same as.
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Good work Amfy. If I can help I will.
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May be worth liaising with Steve Gough at Premier Travel.
Good shout that. Steve is well connected and has been with Villa for, well, forever. Good bloke with vast knowledge.
Agree. I meant in terms of getting questionnaires into his coaches.
There are several Lions Clubs that run coaches to away games. It may be worth contacting Alan Perrins, who is the Chairman of all the Lions Clubs, to ask the individual Chairmen if they'd hand out questionnaires on their coaches.
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Got a meeting with Villa next Wednesday so I should have the consultation on the go for the Newcastle game!
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Away sections are crying out for terraces really. Back in the day we'd get seat and terrace allocations which would be ideal now for people in Breezeblocks situation and mine to a lesser degree with my 11 years lad.
For these of you who are lucky enough not to be old enough to remember if you thought the celebrations for Lowtons goal at Stoke or the Gabby winners at blose was fun multiply that by 5 if standing on a terrace.
We do need them back. What's the Liverpool take on it? I guess they would be influential in the process.
The celebrations for the Lowton goal at Stoke is exactly why im against the return of standing. I was in row 3 and despite trying to hold my ground I ended up sat on the advertising boards only just managing to stay off the pitch.
I also had a scratched face and buckled glasses.
I don't see the attraction of dealing with that week in week out.
You wouldn't have to. You could still sit down.
Or there is also the 1.2-5 Meyer high rail between each row preventing any travel
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May be worth liaising with Steve Gough at Premier Travel.
Good shout that. Steve is well connected and has been with Villa for, well, forever. Good bloke with vast knowledge.
Agree. I meant in terms of getting questionnaires into his coaches.
There are several Lions Clubs that run coaches to away games. It may be worth contacting Alan Perrins, who is the Chairman of all the Lions Clubs, to ask the individual Chairmen if they'd hand out questionnaires on their coaches.
As a good friend of Steve Gough I can confirm he has been around for years.
He saw Pongo you know.
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He must have been running coaches to away games for near on 30 years now ? I'm sure I went on a coach of his mid 80's to Forest.
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Got a meeting with Villa next Wednesday so I should have the consultation on the go for the Newcastle game!
Great stuff amfy.
Received email from Lee Preece today - Football Operations/Projects Manager - who says he will call me.
I won't pursue things separately from you as a single, co-ordinated approach would be much more effective.
PM me if I can help.
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The suggestions from folk on here re: Lions Club and Steve Gough are really positive and a clear indication of the right way to go about things.
Looks like we could have the start of another great venture between the club and its supporters.
Agree entirely with Leeg's point about standing/sitting, but can't remember the exciting bit from 2011-12.
When they ran out of Balti pies?
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Bolton at home. Not exciting as such, it just made me leap out of my seat.
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Bolton at home. Not exciting as such, it just made me leap out of my seat.
See what you mean.
About the same time that the thought of someone burying TSM up to his hairline brought considerable warmth to the cockles of my heart.
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May be worth liaising with Steve Gough at Premier Travel.
Good shout that. Steve is well connected and has been with Villa for, well, forever. Good bloke with vast knowledge.
Agree. I meant in terms of getting questionnaires into his coaches.
There are several Lions Clubs that run coaches to away games. It may be worth contacting Alan Perrins, who is the Chairman of all the Lions Clubs, to ask the individual Chairmen if they'd hand out questionnaires on their coaches.
As a good friend of Steve Gough I can confirm he has been around for years.
He saw Pongo you know.
On his debut ! When you see him next, ask him about the Ipswich away game in 87 with Cannock Villa. Hilarious does not do it justice.
Kenning van hire in Brownhills is all i will say about that day. What a surreal day. I will PM you if you want more detail about it. What a day.
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As a good friend of Steve Gough I can confirm he has been around for years.
He saw Pongo you know.
[/quote]On his debut ! When you see him next, ask him about the Ipswich away game in 87 with Cannock Villa. Hilarious does not do it justice.
Kenning van hire in Brownhills is all i will say about that day. What a surreal day. I will PM you if you want more detail about it. What a day.
[/quote]
Intriguing, I will ask him.
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Used to travel with Premier myself from about 88-90. Always a very professional operation.
But you can't tantalise us with the promise of a story like that and then not deliver. Go on, give us a few more details - I love away trip tales.
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Used to travel with Premier myself from about 88-90. Always a very professional operation.
But you can't tantalise us with the promise of a story like that and then not deliver. Go on, give us a few more details - I love away trip tales.
I will get back to you after work.
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Too many people on.this thread who are saying there is more to it but won't say,so what is the point of posting anything.If you can't say what is happening for legal reasons fine say so.But to post 'something is going on but I can't say what' is out of order.
Bang on bert!
The Brigada lads were ejected for standing. Allegedly.
Some are implying it was more than that. Allegedly.
Could somebody give us some idea of what "it" was?
Someone who enquired was told the police are involved so nothing more can be said at the moment.
Dave with all due respect are people are going to be taken to court for standing up?
Which obviously means it's about something else as well. I don't know what/why/how but that's what I've been told.
Or your being feed shit? That isnt meant to sound offensive iin anyway
It's possible that someone I trust implicitly has lied to me for no reason or advantage, yes.
I can tell you with complete honesty that the events at Rotherham were solely to do with standing so the idea that the police may be involved as a result of this seems highly implausible to me Dave.
I'm not sure whether it's been mentioned in the previous 38 pages of posts but the club have actually spoken to the lads who had their ability to purchase tickets restricted and apologised for the behaviour of the stewards and those fans in question are able to buy tickets once again. Thanks for the support of all those who've contacted the club with regards to this issue, your support is greatly appreciated.
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amfy was due at the club yesterday so looking forward to hearing what happened.
Club have emailed me again to say they will phone me about the (safe) standing thing, but still waiting.
Good to hear that the Brigada guys have got their ticket access back.
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Hi! Its all good! I'll post a bit later to let u know what's happening. It'll be easier than posting off the phone now.
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Used to travel with Premier myself from about 88-90. Always a very professional operation.
But you can't tantalise us with the promise of a story like that and then not deliver. Go on, give us a few more details - I love away trip tales.
I will get back to you after work.
Come now dan , we are still waiting for away day tale from the 80s , sounds intriguing to say the least mate ;)
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Hi! Its all good! I'll post a bit later to let u know what's happening. It'll be easier than posting off the phone now.
Sounds promising. I look forward to hearing the news.