Help with FourFourTwo article

[basavfc]

government, police, the fa all viewed us as scum, they were the cnuts to blame for Hillsboro not fences not the fans . Period.

[cheltenhamlion]

Fucking Ada. Will you stop with all this FACT and Period cobblers.

You don't win a debate by writing that at the end.

How on earth can you argue that the fences had nothing to do with it?

Were the Police, FA, Emergency Services etc responsible? Of course they were. Nobody has said otherwise.

You are arguing with people here who for a long time backed the Justice campaigners for that very reason.

There is simply no argument though that caging people in like zoo animals did contribute to those deaths.

[Malandro]

I smell a troll

[damon loves JT]

Fences don't kill people. South Yorkshire Police do. FACT. Period.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

End of.

[Dave Cooper please]

government, police, the fa all viewed us as scum, they were the cnuts to blame for Hillsboro not fences not the fans . Period.

Yes, as I think I have said.
Now, ask yourself this - why did they collectively view us as scum?
Did they just pick on football supporters in a bizarre random way? Or did a section of us give them the excuse?

This isn't to excuse them in the way they acted at Hillsborough and at countless other places where it could also have occurred and we got away with it.

Were you a hoolie back in the day bas?

[lordmcgrath5]

Fucking Ada. Will you stop with all this FACT and Period cobblers.

You don't win a debate by writing that at the end.

How on earth can you argue that the fences had nothing to do with it?

Hear and (very loudly) hear.

[lordmcgrath5]

There was racism at VP. Fortunately never as bad as at other clubs. I've said before how an Asian friend of mine started going in the early 70's and got the shit kicked out of him in the back of the Holte by a bunch of other Villa 'fans' and told never to come back as the Holte was no place for Pakis.

For those with back issues of H&V it's mentioned in an article he wrote in H&V called Too Many Cowboys.

Joining this thread fairly late on, but just wanted to say what an excellent article that was. When I was living in Germany, I translated it (with permission from H&V) for a FARE issue of our MSV Duisburg fanzine and I remember there being a fair bit of interest in the topic over there.

I well remember racist chanting on the Holte up to around '87/88, but it seemed to peter out after that. I still think of the very late 80s as something of a golden age in English football - post-Hillsborough but pre all-seater, before the Premier League excesses, before Hornby and the Italia 90 hype, racism in decline, still affordable etc. etc.

[pauliewalnuts]

government, police, the fa all viewed us as scum, they were the cnuts to blame for Hillsboro not fences not the fans . Period.

Of course the fences had something to do with it. The reason they were there was hooliganism, and the reason football fans were treated like shit was hooliganism, as well.

[dave.woodhall]

I well remember racist chanting on the Holte up to around '87/88, but it seemed to peter out after that. I still think of the very late 80s as something of a golden age in English football - post-Hillsborough but pre all-seater, before the Premier League excesses, before Hornby and the Italia 90 hype, racism in decline, still affordable etc. etc.

I could write a book on how 1989-92 was a brief golden age to be a football supporter. Post-Hillsborough we were being treated better, post identity card campaign we thought we could change the world, pre-Sky we weren't pissed about for TV, pre-Premier League we didn't have to pay stupid prices and pre-internet there was none of the moronic 'banter' that means every other club is 'scum'.

[lordmcgrath5]

I well remember racist chanting on the Holte up to around '87/88, but it seemed to peter out after that. I still think of the very late 80s as something of a golden age in English football - post-Hillsborough but pre all-seater, before the Premier League excesses, before Hornby and the Italia 90 hype, racism in decline, still affordable etc. etc.

I could write a book on how 1989-92 was a brief golden age to be a football supporter. Post-Hillsborough we were being treated better, post identity card campaign we thought we could change the world, pre-Sky we weren't pissed about for TV, pre-Premier League we didn't have to pay stupid prices and pre-internet there was none of the moronic 'banter' that means every other club is 'scum'.

Indeed, there really was a feelgood factor at that time, wasn't there? With the explosion in fanzines there was a real sense that you could go away, buy one of their magazines, drink in one of their pubs and have a good chinwag at the majority of other clubs. There was something of a togetherness feel among football fans for a while. We'd seen off ID cards and were joining forces to stand up for the right not to be collectively demonised or treated like shit. Even the West Midlands police had to start changing, though very slowly.

[dave.woodhall]

I well remember racist chanting on the Holte up to around '87/88, but it seemed to peter out after that. I still think of the very late 80s as something of a golden age in English football - post-Hillsborough but pre all-seater, before the Premier League excesses, before Hornby and the Italia 90 hype, racism in decline, still affordable etc. etc.

I could write a book on how 1989-92 was a brief golden age to be a football supporter. Post-Hillsborough we were being treated better, post identity card campaign we thought we could change the world, pre-Sky we weren't pissed about for TV, pre-Premier League we didn't have to pay stupid prices and pre-internet there was none of the moronic 'banter' that means every other club is 'scum'.

Indeed, there really was a feelgood factor at that time, wasn't there? With the explosion in fanzines there was a real sense that you could go away, buy one of their magazines, drink in one of their pubs and have a good chinwag at the majority of other clubs. There was something of a togetherness feel among football fans for a while. We'd seen off ID cards and were joining forces to stand up for the right not to be collectively demonised or treated like shit. Even the West Midlands police had to start changing, though very slowly.

Then money came into it...

[lordmcgrath5]

Then money came into it...

Yep.

[dave.woodhall]

It's the greatest irony of modern football that the people who saved the game when nobody else wanted to know it ended up having it taken from them.

[robbo1874]

I well remember racist chanting on the Holte up to around '87/88, but it seemed to peter out after that. I still think of the very late 80s as something of a golden age in English football - post-Hillsborough but pre all-seater, before the Premier League excesses, before Hornby and the Italia 90 hype, racism in decline, still affordable etc. etc.

I could write a book on how 1989-92 was a brief golden age to be a football supporter. Post-Hillsborough we were being treated better, post identity card campaign we thought we could change the world, pre-Sky we weren't pissed about for TV, pre-Premier League we didn't have to pay stupid prices and pre-internet there was none of the moronic 'banter' that means every other club is 'scum'.

Indeed, there really was a feelgood factor at that time, wasn't there? With the explosion in fanzines there was a real sense that you could go away, buy one of their magazines, drink in one of their pubs and have a good chinwag at the majority of other clubs. There was something of a togetherness feel among football fans for a while. We'd seen off ID cards and were joining forces to stand up for the right not to be collectively demonised or treated like shit. Even the West Midlands police had to start changing, though very slowly.

Then money came into it...

fanzines?