Dalian Atkinson

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

What I find so sad is where they show the picture of him in the Asics home shirt. He looks so young, I remember when he signed, saw most of the games he ever played for us, the goals, THAT goal.

..and now all these years on and he's dead. RIP Dalian.

If you listen very carefully, you can hear me shouting "Pass the ball! Pass the ball! Oh for f... brilliant goal Dalian".

I was there for THAT goal and you’re right most people on the Holmesdale were encouraging him to pass it to Deano. It was a beautiful moment to be part of and experience.

I was doing the same, Yorke (I think?) had made a run and was in acres of space. I loved that team.

Me too. The team, the kit, the awaydays. Magic.

[paul_e]

So sometimes, yeah, fuck the police. But no, not all the time, not even a majority of the time, in fact probably a very small minority of the time.

This was my point, when this happened I could understand people being upset and saw many similar sentiments and had no issue with it. My problem was that everything that happened last week showed that the police were doing the right thing, exactly as we'd ask of them, making it the wrong time to make such a blanket statement.

[rooboy316]

There are a lot of people on the margins of society who lack respect for the police and when something tragic like this happens, they become emotional and use hyperbole. Much the same can be said of football fans in general.

There are also a lot of people on the margins of society who have been on the receiving end of grave injustices, which provokes a strong reaction. In my experience, it's not so much about the small minority of individuals in the force who've done the wrong thing, although this does happen occasionally.  It's the systemic, ingrained problem, usually to do with race, which can be pervasive. And people on the margins of society feel, and in most cases truly are, powerless to do anything about it... which breeds deep anger and resentment, hence the reactions.

[mike]

Guys, this is about Dalian, not our views on the police. My input was on the basis that 'fuck the police' is as reductive as 'fuck taxi drivers', 'fuck Villa fans', 'fuck blonde people' or indeed 'fuck [insert any big, varied group of human beings]'. That way lies 'fuck black people with mental health problems'. None of us knew him, none of us know Jack Grealish or John McGinn. They're great footballers with a loyalty to the club and the fans and for that reason we will support and cherish their memories in years to come. We have had troubled heroes like McGrath and Merson and fantastic role models like Southgate and Taylor. So talk about Dalian, talk about the incident, talk about these two officers, but let's not make this thread a cause of division and dispute.

[Toronto Villa]

My only comment would be that truly believe the vast majority of police officers who have a tremendously difficult job to do are upstanding and genuinely good people. What I don't like is when bad cops are rarely called out by politicians not looking to lose the support of the union, or the police union not policing themselves adequately and simpling getting rid of the bad apples. They stand together so the perception quickly gets created that they are all bad, and mainly because bad stuff gets highlited far more readily than the many good things they do. You see it in the US now for example where despite numerous terrible incidents against innocent black men the majority of charged officers walk free and naturally keep their job. Even when the innocent party dies and evidence is almost overwhelmingly against the officer. It creates such a toxic atmosphere in the communities they serve and an inherent lack of trust. Until they solve this from within it won't ever go away.

I hope in this case if indeed the officer wilfully caused the death of Dalian he is treated like a civilian and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[paul_e]

At this point that's what is happening, we'll have to wait and see what happens from here but this currently being handled exactly as it should be.

[dr.chekov]

There are many times when it isn’t reductive to say ‘fuck… this group or that.’ To say fuck racists, fuck ableists, fuck homophobes and misogynists and fascists and all the rest is to be in solidarity with those groups who are attacked for simply being who they are.

And people might say fuck the police for much the same reason they say fuck racists. The police have a record of continuously discriminating against black people. Look at Black Lives Matter, as I mentioned previously, or the way in which the police bungled (which is being kind) the Stephen Lawrence murder investigation and then thought the best way to make up for it was to spy on Stephen Lawrence’s parents!

And of course, it isn’t just ethnic minorities, in my lifetime alone the mentally ill (Stefan Kiszko) Irish people (Birmingham Six, the Guilford Four), striking miners (Orgreave), football fans (Hillsborough), protest groups (such as uncover police infiltrating groups, spying on them and even starting families with women in the group) have been falsely imprisoned, beat up, abused and killed because of the police.
 
It doesn’t seem to be a problem of whether an individual officer is good or bad, it seems like a systematic problem.
I have no idea what the answer is. I have used the police before and as kieron rightly said, I would use them again if I was in trouble. But given their record I can’t be too critical of Bob for being so angry as to say fuck them.

[dcdavecollett]

And of course, there's still no sign of a public inquiry into what happened at Orgreave.

[PeterWithesShin]

Dalian signed for us 29 years ago today.

[brian green]

I wish we had another one like him.

[Legion]

I wish we had another one like him.

We do. I rate Archer as potentially better.

[Risso]

I watched that film 'Marvellous' the other night, about the Stoke City kit man, Neil Baldwin.  A lovely, feel good film indeed.  Anyway towards the end they show the friendly for Cowans testimonial between Villa and Stoke in 1993.  Dalian wasn't playing, although he'd played all the games at the end of the season, and our other big names all played.  David Platt came back for it as well, and scored. Anybody remember why Dalian didn't play?

[Mister E]

I wish we had another one like him.

We do. I rate Archer as potentially better.

If you're right, then bring it on: Dalian was one of the most underrated players of his time in terms of his skill.

[Damo70]

Dalian signed for us 29 years ago today.

Dalian and Bosnich were both great in our cup winning run in 1994. I always thought Deano was a good influence on Dalian. They were a good partnership.

[Axl Rose]

Dalian signed for us 29 years ago today.

Dalian and Bosnich were both great in our cup winning run in 1994. I always thought Deano was a good influence on Dalian. They were a good partnership.

Probably my all time two favourite Villa players.